From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 08:40:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18500 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:40:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1Df4NP012863; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1Df1sR019791; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA1DebsR019674 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:40:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021101134037.17511.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:40:37 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century dress supports To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001301c281a2$d3ae5d60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:40:37 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO What a great resource, that's lovely Bjarne! Nicole --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I wished i had more time to draw better, but i have so much work to do right > now. But i hope it can be someone a little help. > If some of you sees other examples of paniers or whatever, dress support for > 18th century, please let me know, so that i can add all there is. > > Many greetings > > Bjarne > > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dress_supports_in_18th.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 09:07:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18638 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:07:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1E83NP014014; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1E81sR027038; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA1E7VsR026909 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 16236 invoked by uid 0); 1 Nov 2002 14:07:27 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 14:07:27 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cross cloths In-Reply-To: <3DC1A77B.E95F6236@dandy.net> Message-ID: <20021101090622.W82531-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:07:28 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I read somewhere that this headwear was called a "cross cloth" because it was folded into a triangle (on the cross) and tied around the head. Unfortunately, I can't recall where I read that. Drea On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, leigh tartaglio wrote: > Hi. That seems to nail it down pretty well. I guess then neckcloth is the proper term for the linen item. I would be curious to know how it crosses the head, if in fact that is the meaning. Thanks, Mike T. > > > > also from Moryson in 1617 "Many weare such cross-clothes or forehead clothes as our women use when they are sicke." So it does seem to be headgear and not neckwear, though its exact function is unclear. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 09:35:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18718 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:35:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1Ea5NP015422; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1Ea1sR005015; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1EZtsR004961 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:35:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (pcp02823258pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.255.99]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4W00DOSJ7EYC@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:35:49 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Colonial-Early Federal U.S. Costume X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021101093217.0399b008@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:35:32 -0500 Status: RO Cynthia Abel wrote: >For Devotees of 18th-early 19thc costume, you may want to spring(or ask >Santa) for "What Clothes Reveal: the Language of Clothing in Colonial and >Federal America" by Linda Baumgarten. This is the companion book to an >exhibition at Williamsburg Decorative Arts Museum. Hmmmm..... any idea of the dates of the exhibition? >...all the mostly color pictures are simply yummy and it was well worth >the $65 odd with 30% off via Amazon since a visit to Colonial Williamsburg >isn't in the personal budget. I'm usually down in Virginia Beach over Thanksgiving weekend and over Christmas week. Thanksgiving is a bit short for us, but if it's still going on over Christmas, maybe I can convince the Other Half to take us for the hour-plus drive each way... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 10:14:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18902 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:14:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1FE5NP017563; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1FE1sR017852; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA1FDxsR017825 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:13:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021101151358.93153.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:13:58 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Halloween costume photos? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:13:58 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Where are they? there must be digital photos available by now *G* Show us your Halloween costumes! I am sooooooooooo curious. Mine are here: http://www.kipar.org/dress-diary/prospect-row.jpg The white bearded one with the Viking helmet on the bottom left corner is Colin; the completely mad totally chainmail-clad Crusader with the full face helmet is - who other than - Ben. The superbly done Werewolf (he made it all himself with latex and built the mask onto his face) is our neighbour Mark; his wife came as a pupil of Hogwarth and her beer and hand is seen on the right corner. I guess you can find me in the pic. http://www.kipar.org/dress-diary/quite-dead.jpg Close-up of moi. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 12:15:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19522 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:15:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1HF4NP027923; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1HF1Js017436; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1HEDJs016946 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:14:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a23.in-tch.com [66.62.107.3]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA1GwmD18306 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:58:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DC2B66F.D912E86E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flying with a Parasol? References: <20021030141058.19408.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> <3DC137AE.93F0C156@bigpond.com> <3DC04E6C.412EFA1F@netdefender.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:14:23 -0700 Status: RO I took an umbrella with me to England/Ireland this past summer, but it was in my "checked" luggage, along with a few other potentially pointy things like my embroidery scissors. It was also one of the small, folding kind. I didn't have any problems at all with that, or my needles for on-board sewing. When I was checking (pre-vacation) with the airlines and travel agent, I found out that some of this stuff depends on the particular airline/airport/security dude. So you might ask the pertinent folk in your case as well. --sue, who thinks Puerto Rico sounds mighty fine about now....we've got record cold temps this week--3 degrees above 0 this a.m. (that's farenheit...about 30 degrees below freezing. Not at all sure of what the appropriate metric number would be, but d@mn! it's cold out!) Jen wrote: > > No, not like Mary Poppins. :-) > > I just spent the last two weeks in San Juan, Puerto Rico on a business trip and am > looking at spending another couple weeks there again before February. Walking > around, I saw a fair number of women walking around with umbrellas or parasols as > protection against the sun. It occurred to me that I might bring one of mine > along on my return trip, but I have no idea if such a thing is allowed on > airplanes these days. (I don't have one that's small enough to fit in a suitcase, > so would have to bring it along as a carry-on.) Does anyone have any experience > travelling with a parasol? > > Thanks! > > --jen > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 13:30:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20881 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:30:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1IVANP005183; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:31:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1IV1Js001065; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from out018.verizon.net (out018pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1IUjJs000801 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:30:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from default.verizon.net ([151.199.135.83]) by out018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021101183039.RYTE3553.out018.verizon.net@default.verizon.net> for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:30:39 -0600 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20021101132444.00afba50@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Colonial-Early Federal U.S. Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021101093217.0399b008@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:27:22 -0500 Status: RO At 09:35 AM 11/1/02 -0500, you wrote: >I'm usually down in Virginia Beach over Thanksgiving weekend and over >Christmas week. Thanksgiving is a bit short for us, but if it's still >going on over Christmas, maybe I can convince the Other Half to take us >for the hour-plus drive each way... > >Brenda >webwarren@earthlink.net The exhibit is at the Dewitt Wallace Gallery, and while I do not know the end date, I am sure that it will still be up around Christmas. The exhibits there are usually on display for over a year, and it just recently opened. Cheers, Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 13:31:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20926 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:31:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1IW1NP005285; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1IW1Js001666; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1IVFJs001120 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.ae.300afe0d (3932) for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:30:57 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Colonial-Early Federal U.S. Costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ae.300afe0d.2af42261_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:30:57 EST Status: RO --part1_ae.300afe0d.2af42261_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/1/2002 9:36:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, webwarren@earthlink.net writes: > I'm usually down in Virginia Beach over Thanksgiving weekend and over > Christmas week. Thanksgiving is a bit short for us, but if it's still going > > on over Christmas, maybe I can convince the Other Half to take us for the > hour-plus drive each way... > > I believe it is up for a year, and just opened, so it will be up this Christmas. You can always check their website--www.history.org. Ann Wass --part1_ae.300afe0d.2af42261_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/1/2002 9:36:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, webwarren@earthlink.net writes:


I'm usually down in Virginia Beach over Thanksgiving weekend and over
Christmas week. Thanksgiving is a bit short for us, but if it's still going
on over Christmas, maybe I can convince the Other Half to take us for the
hour-plus drive each way...



I believe it is up for a year, and just opened, so it will be up this Christmas.  You can always check their website--www.history.org.
Ann Wass --part1_ae.300afe0d.2af42261_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 14:34:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21635 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:34:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1JY9NP011405; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1JY1Js007472; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f40.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1JXCJs007043 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:33:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:33:07 -0800 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:33:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Halloween costume photos? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Nov 2002 19:33:07.0538 (UTC) FILETIME=[81367320:01C281DD] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:33:07 -0800 Status: RO I made a Spiroc, the parrot creatures my husband hunts in his online game, Everquest. Just click the link in my signature line to see the full diary. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi/spiroc.html I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >Where are they? there must be digital photos available by now *G* Show us >your >Halloween costumes! I am sooooooooooo curious _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 14:40:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21670 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:40:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1Jf2NP011940; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1Jf0Js011184; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1JehJs011000 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:40:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (pcp02823258pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.255.99]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4W00KXLXB9YT@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 14:40:22 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Colonial-Early Federal U.S. Costume In-reply-to: <20021101190010.17321.16615.Mailman@net.indra.com> X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021101143742.03825d88@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 14:40:27 -0500 Status: RO Ann amplified Ron's reply to me: >I believe it is up for a year, and just opened, so it will be up this >Christmas. You can always check their website--www.history.org. Thanks! The exhibit will be up through 16 February, 2004 -- and waiting until Christmas will give us a chance to see the upcoming Jewelry exhibit as well! >Jewelry: The Colonial Williamsburg Collection (December 21, 2002 - >ongoing) highlighting selected pieces from the museum's collection >including rings, necklaces and earrings made from gold or silver, some set >with precious stones. More info can be found at http://www.history.org/visit/sp_events/exhibition.cfm#dewitt Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 15:38:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22035 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:37:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1KbBNP017042; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:37:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1Kb3Js012524; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1KadJs012318 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:36:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bede.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.222]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E66AE262E4F for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:36:36 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001601c281e6$bc46e860$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021101151358.93153.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Halloween costume photos? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:39:11 +0100 Status: RO Hi Nicole. This is great! I didnt know you were making Holloween in England. You look great. That monkey is scary!. I think i would have died if i meat him along the lake here, by night. Here in Denmark, we never have that sort of thing. Only children used to dress up in February for the "Fastelavn" an old habit from catolic times where people starved themselves for a coupple of days. They still do, but not as much as when i was a child. We used to go arround to trick and treet for small money, I loved to dress up. My favourite disguise was when i dressed like a wicked witch. Well boring Denmark................ Bjarne Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 4:13 PM Subject: [h-cost] Halloween costume photos? > Where are they? there must be digital photos available by now *G* Show us your > Halloween costumes! I am sooooooooooo curious. Mine are here: > > http://www.kipar.org/dress-diary/prospect-row.jpg > > The white bearded one with the Viking helmet on the bottom left corner > is Colin; the completely mad totally chainmail-clad Crusader with the > full face helmet is - who other than - Ben. The superbly done Werewolf > (he made it all himself with latex and built the mask onto his face) is > our neighbour Mark; his wife came as a pupil of Hogwarth and her beer > and hand is seen on the right corner. I guess you can find me in the > pic. > > http://www.kipar.org/dress-diary/quite-dead.jpg > > Close-up of moi. > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 1 17:30:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22527 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:30:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1MU9NP027197; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1MU3Js017202; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1MTKJs016748 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:29:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fbb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.187]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F1215EFF13 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:29:19 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002601c281f6$7cb85bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Mans shirt 1723 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:31:57 +0100 Status: RO Hello again. It is so quiet here these days, usually i get much more emails from h-costume, but i guess you have all ben buisy with the hollidays. Today i found a picture of the composer Vivaldi from 1723. It shows him in a shirt. The collar of the shirt has 2 buttonholes in each side and there is a drawstring to close the collar with. Was this the ordinary way to close a shirt? Was buttons more rare? Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 01:38:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24633 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 01:38:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA26cMNP023095; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:38:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA26c07g007526; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA26br7g007497 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:37:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.53]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H4X00D59QZ122@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 22:21:03 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flying with a Parasol? In-reply-to: <3DC2B66F.D912E86E@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021101221655.04c99b30@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20021030141058.19408.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> <3DC137AE.93F0C156@bigpond.com> <3DC04E6C.412EFA1F@netdefender.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 22:20:05 -0800 Status: RO >--sue, who thinks Puerto Rico sounds mighty fine about now....we've got >record cold temps this week--3 degrees above 0 this a.m. (that's >farenheit...about 30 degrees below freezing. Not at all sure of what >the appropriate metric number would be, but d@mn! it's cold out!) Where are you? I have a daughter in New York City in college, and she, a native-Californian, is about to discover Winter. Of course she will need a New-York-Winter costume, as opposed to the San-Francisco-'Winter' costume she's been used to all her life. She actually grew up in San Jose, 50 miles south of San Francisco, where the weather is much milder than it is in San Francisco. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 03:02:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15365 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:02:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2837NP025829; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 01:03:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA28317g022278; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 01:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f33.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA282Z7g022174 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 01:02:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:02:30 -0800 Received: from 80.3.160.4 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 08:02:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.160.4] From: "Joy Shillaker" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Nov 2002 08:02:30.0698 (UTC) FILETIME=[315830A0:01C28246] Subject: [h-cost] Forehead cloth/cross clothes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 08:02:30 +0000 Status: RO http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/index1.html look at the painting of Bridgette Holmes by John Riley. She was famous for being 90 years old. She appears to be wearing a forehead cloth.A nice example of someone wearing clothes from when they were younger. Jan Steen 'celebrating the birth' shows a woman who has just delivered wearing a forehead cloth and in the same painting there is a woman who appears to be pregnant wearing a forehead cloth under a linen chaperone(I think that's what it's called) I have a little web gallery of paintings showing forehead cloths, but I can't work out how to put it on line. I'll get my partner to do it. The three examples of forehead cloths I have examined dating from early to late 17th century are made from squares of linen folded in half to make a triangle with tape sewn at either end of the front. Two were plain and one had tiny embroidered picots work along the forehead edge. On the embroidered cloth the weft count was approx 120 to the inch (between 115- 122 because of the slubs in the threads)I could only see the sewing stitches with my linen checker, there were over 30 to the inch and the sewing thread appeared to be roughly half as thick as the fabric threads. I asked someone with 20/20 vision to see if they could see the stitches with the naked eye. They couldn't, this kind of work may have been sewn by feel. In 'The Baby in the Bush' Anne Buck, a foundling baby, late 17th is described as having a cross cloth pinned over the face. I wear my forehead cloth with the long striaght edge just below my hair line, tied at the back of the neck the cloth covering my ears this keeps my ears warm and cosy. My coif then goes over the top. The added bonus is that I don't get coif slippage. When cooking over an open fire the cloth prevents sweat running into my eyes. The folded edge fits neatly on the forehead because it's on the bias. Few forehead cloths are seen in pictures, so far I've noticed babies wearing them,(to protect the fontanelle I've heard) pregnant and nursing mothers, a servant and women who are in bed ill. My feeling is that they are very much a utility item, and possibly only worn at home perhaps some kind of early modern sweatband? I've been working on a set of C17th baby cloths for a few months now and hope to get the pictures comleted soon. The clothes are copies of items from Bath Museum of Costume. regards Joy _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 05:04:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12625 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 05:04:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2A55NP029775; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:05:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2A517g013229; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA2A4p7g013198 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:04:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021102100451.92238.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:04:51 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Forehead cloth/cross clothes To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 10:04:51 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Actually, I think there is a mix-up in understanding of forehead cloths. What bridget Holmes is wearing http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/r/riley/holmes.jpg is not what reconvalescent/ill/lying-in women are wearing. I thought so too at first but then I discovered that there are differences. Look at the difference, here an old woman in 1660-65: http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/focus/1660-65_OLDWOMAN_DOU.JPG she is wearing what Bridget Holmes is wearing, and here another in the 1660s: http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/focus/NIDDY-NODDY_DOU.JPG Here a sick woman in 1660-70: http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/focus/1660-70_ANAEMIC-LADY_HOOGSTRAATEN.JPG and another http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/focus/1660-67_VISIT_METSU.JPG I do think that there is a difference, and it strikes me that the sick always wear the very tight forehead cloth with something loose over it, as if it were an addition, while the old women are wearing a cloth tied over their normal 'clip-on coif' (as i call the wired ones) to do exactly what Joy described, to protect and be useful. That's my tupennce and a half after studying the period 1660-1715 for years. Nicole --- Joy Shillaker wrote: > > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/index1.html > > look at the painting of Bridgette Holmes by John Riley. She was famous for > being 90 years old. She appears to be wearing a forehead cloth.A nice > example of someone wearing clothes from when they were younger. > > Jan Steen 'celebrating the birth' shows a woman who has just delivered > wearing a forehead cloth and in the same painting there is a woman who > appears to be pregnant wearing a forehead cloth under a linen chaperone(I > think that's what it's called) > > I have a little web gallery of paintings showing forehead cloths, but I > can't work out how to put it on line. I'll get my partner to do it. > > The three examples of forehead cloths I have examined dating from early to > late 17th century are made from squares of linen folded in half to make a > triangle with tape sewn at either end of the front. Two were plain and one > had tiny embroidered picots work along the forehead edge. > On the embroidered cloth the weft count was approx 120 to the inch (between > 115- 122 because of the slubs in the threads)I could only see the sewing > stitches with my linen checker, there were over 30 to the inch and the > sewing thread appeared to be roughly half as thick as the fabric threads. I > asked someone with 20/20 vision to see if they could see the stitches with > the naked eye. They couldn't, this kind of work may have been sewn by feel. > > In 'The Baby in the Bush' Anne Buck, a foundling baby, late 17th is > described as having a cross cloth pinned over the face. > > I wear my forehead cloth with the long striaght edge just below my hair > line, tied at the back of the neck the cloth covering my ears this keeps my > ears warm and cosy. My coif then goes over the top. The added bonus is that > I don't get coif slippage. When cooking over an open fire the cloth prevents > sweat running into my eyes. The folded edge fits neatly on the forehead > because it's on the bias. > > Few forehead cloths are seen in pictures, so far I've noticed babies wearing > them,(to protect the fontanelle I've heard) pregnant and nursing mothers, a > servant and women who are in bed ill. My feeling is that they are very much > a utility item, and possibly only worn at home perhaps some kind of early > modern sweatband? > > I've been working on a set of C17th baby cloths for a few months now and > hope to get the pictures comleted soon. The clothes are copies of items from > Bath Museum of Costume. > > regards > Joy > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 05:09:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12638 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 05:09:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2AA0NP029975; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2AA07g014370; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f164.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2A9M7g014198 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 02:09:17 -0800 Received: from 12.232.2.255 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:09:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.232.2.255] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Halloween costume photos? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Nov 2002 10:09:17.0413 (UTC) FILETIME=[E74CC950:01C28257] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 02:09:17 -0800 Status: RO Welllll... I've only got two pictures of mine. Not very good quality, staging, etc, because they were taken at the costume shop where I work in between classes. (Though "slave" would be more appropriate, I think.) Disclaimer! I didn't sew anything on this costume. I assembled it from bits I had already, except for the feather, which I bought specifically for the purpose. There is absolutely no historical basis for this costume - but everyone calls it the "Goth Moulin Rouge" costume. Ingredients: 1 pr fishnet pantyhose, 1 pr black thigh-hi stockings 1 heavily modified Fredericks of Hollywood corset w/garter clips 1 lace shirt 1 pair of boots 1 black gauze 3-tier skirt (and a compact full of white goth-foundation, and some black eyeliner and lipstick) Got a good mental image worked up? Good. :) Now go here: http://people.ucsc.edu/~kalessia/laurasasscrop.jpg (please note that it's supposed to say "Laura - sassy" but somehow the name got changed. Oh - and the hat/mask is the costume mistress'. She lent it to me because "it matches!") http://people.ucsc.edu/~kalessia/laurawthebear.jpg Enjoy! -Laura the geek (now if I could only look that good at Dickens Fair...) _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 08:26:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13367 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:26:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2DR1NP005389; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2DR07g017783; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2DQW7g017683 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:26:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=99main.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 187yIK-0003Oe-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 05:26:32 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC3D1D4.3080900@99main.com> From: Marilyn Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) References: <3DC1055F.20701@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 08:23:32 -0500 Status: RO HAPPY DANCE!!!!!!! My luftwaffe buddy has family in Munich that he is visiting in a couple weeks and he is going to go look for the book for me as a christmas present !!!!!!!!!!!! *poing* *poing* *poing* margali who has to settle down to finish pearling a veil for Tara's wedding in 2 weeks;-( but would rather be fondling the book. Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > It is in German, but someone translated some of it. > > "Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque" > at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from > Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed > There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos are > well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark > exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00. > (I'll try to get more information aboud this book) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 08:26:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13371 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:26:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2DQ6NP005342; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:26:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2DQ07g017575; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2DPN7g017452 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:25:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.101] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A19363C202C2; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 08:22:27 -0500 Message-ID: <006301c28273$abc109c0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0060_01C28249.C2125500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] winter hand covers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:28:01 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C28249.C2125500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our 1790s house "on the frontier" has queried what women might use for = warmth of their hands, particularly on the street, The population is = diverse. Were gloves, mittens or even muffs in common use? = Kathleen =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C28249.C2125500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Our 1790s house "on the frontier" has queried what = women might=20 use for warmth of their hands, particularly on the street, The = population is=20 diverse. Were gloves, mittens or even muffs in common use? =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20    Kathleen         =20            =20
------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C28249.C2125500-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 08:47:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13426 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:47:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2Dm1NP005911; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2Dm07g021598; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2Dl67g021445 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be97.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.151]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 07720264B9D for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:47:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001c01c28276$bb37e6f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <3DC1055F.20701@kabelfoon.nl> <3DC3D1D4.3080900@99main.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:49:57 +0100 Status: RO Hi. I went and looked at some pictures from the exhibition. That bodice is very interresting. There are very few garments left from this time. I must have their catalog, cause i cant go. Can you buy their catalog from the museum shop? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn Traber" To: Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) > HAPPY DANCE!!!!!!! > > My luftwaffe buddy has family in Munich that he is visiting in a > couple weeks and he is going to go look for the book for me as a > christmas present !!!!!!!!!!!! > > *poing* *poing* *poing* > > margali > who has to settle down to finish pearling a veil for Tara's > wedding in 2 weeks;-( but would rather be fondling the book. > > Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > > > It is in German, but someone translated some of it. > > > > "Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque" > > at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from > > Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed > > > There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos are > > well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark > > exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00. > > (I'll try to get more information aboud this book) > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 09:15:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13514 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 09:15:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2EG2NP006830; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 07:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2EG17g026893; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 07:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1K38Js023736 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:03:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA22182 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:03:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001001c281e1$cb2ace00$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20021101132444.00afba50@mail.verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Colonial-Early Federal U.S. Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:03:48 -0600 Status: RO The exibit will be open well into 2003 for "What Clothes Reveal." This is an excellent book and I stayed up very late with my copy. Even for costume mavens their is a wealth of information, including fascinating sidebars(some cover an entire page), debunking costume myths, the creation of such myths, fabric terms and meanings, and the last: the meaning of a costume curator's own wear right before a new exibition. The book covers the whys and wherefores of why some costumes survive, alterration history, the clothing of lower classes and slaves(Have you always wondered if the U.S. always ran a trade deficit?--Yes, it has always been cheaper to import manufactured goods), and finally alterration of surviving clothing for historic events and fancy dress in the late 19th to early 20th century. To me the most fascinating chapter was "Cradle to Grave" begining with bridal wear and ending with mourning attire. Lucky was the pre-safety pin child whose mom used diapers(history of that term given within the book)made with ties rather than relying on straight-pin fastening. Cindy Abel ILL Coordinator Health Sciences Library Creighton University 1912 CALIFORNIA ST OMAHA NE 68178-0210 VOICE: 402.280.5144 FAX: 402.280.5134 brujne@creighton.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 14:25:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14791 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:25:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2JP6NP020464; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2JP17g006788; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2JOB7g006548 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA2JKO3r005568 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 11:20:26 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gothic Cape/ (was Timely Topic) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3DC2887A.E1FFB608@bigpond.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 11:25:49 -0800 Status: RO Linda and Claire, I must admit I don't have a picture to hand of a woman wearing her cloak like this. However! I don't have a picture of a woman wearing a coat (except in the 1600's either :-). The good thing about the side opening cloak is that it IS a period solution to the problem of walking and having your cover fly open and let in the elements. I suspect we see the central opening cloaks on women because they are particularly formal items rather than "useful", but don't hold me to it. The other possibility for an early period is of course the Manesse guardcorps which are seen on both men and women. Another dodge that is modern, but would get you the look of a center opening cape combined with a "coat" that fits fairly closely to the body is something I bought 20 years ago as ready-to-wear. it was a cylindrical, knee length sleeveless "coat" with a 2/3 circle cape attached at the neck and a bit down the front arm hole opening. The coat part protected you all around while the cape part belled out and looked good. I added a hood with capelet to add extra warmth/rain protection (at that time I was in Drachenwald, Knights Crossing and rain was still the problem). I loved it, even though the entire outfit made me feel a bit like Little Red Riding Hood (we weren't far from the country of the Brothers Grimm). Whether the hood on the men's cloaks is attached or not is anybody's guess. I suspect that it is separate in some way because I have problems figuring out how they would be attached and get that effect. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Claire Clarke Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 5:58 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Cape/ (was Timely Topic) Linda Rice wrote: > Thanks for the great suggestion and illos, Wanda. I noticed that while > the cape is buttoned down the right shoulder, the hood arrangement is > situated correctly on the head. Do you think that the cape and hood are > separate items, (thus the hoodless cape is simply rotated to open > off-center) or is this an integral feature of a one-piece garment? > > Also, the brasses show this treatment for men's capes. Do you think it's > appropriate for women's capes as well? The brass of John Lyndewode and > his wife shows something completely different for her. > > Thank you, I appreciate any insight anyone may have. > I'm afriad that I can't recall off the top of my head any instance of women with cloaks or mantles from this period that didn't open at the front. All the funky openings seem to be reserved for men. Claire (which isn't to say that a) I've seen every picture there is, or b) women didn't borrow their husbands cloaks sometimes) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 14:34:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14841 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:34:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2JZ2NP021015; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2JZ17g009121; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2JY67g008849 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:34:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool-63.53.184.155.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.184.155]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18841z-0006gS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:34:03 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021030163533.00a1ed90@mail.attbi.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021030163533.00a1ed90@mail.attbi.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Timely Topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:57:33 -0800 Status: RO At 4:35 PM -0800 10/30/02, MaryAnn Jones wrote: >when do sweaters appear as outerwear? According to Bishop Rutt's book on the history of handknitting (AKA the historical knitter's bible :), there are very elegant silk knitted jackets and shirts beginning in the early to mid 1600s -- King Charles I is supposed to have worn such a shirt (called a "waistcoat" at the time) to his execution. There's also a group of elaborately color-patterned silk jackets, most of which open down the front, whose source is a bit uncertain -- possibly Italy (wherever they're from, there's a big group of them and they are all fairly similar). However neither of these seems to be an outdoor garment. King Charles's "sky blue waistcoat" was clearly worn _under_ several other layers, since he is recorded as having taken off outer layers until the blue "waistcoat" was revealed. Both this and the silk jackets seem to be quite thin, rather on the order of a very lightweight woman's cardigan sweater, and since they're silk, they were probably not worn in heavy weather or for warmth. The modern "sweater phenomenon" where virtually everyone wears these knitted over-shirts for warmth seems, however, to date only to the late 19th or early 20th century, when they suddenly became fashionable, especially for golf and other outdoor sports. (And for anyone who hasn't heard this yet, Interweave Press is planning to reprint Rutt's book sometime in 2003 -- excellent news, since it's been out of print for about ten years and the prices online for used copies have tended to start at $80-$100 and go up from there.....) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 15:10:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15100 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 15:10:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2KA3NP022620; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA2KA17g017351; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA2K9K7g017165 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:09:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021102200919.14969.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 20:09:19 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mans shirt 1723 To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002601c281f6$7cb85bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:09:19 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Bjarne, I studied all my portraits from 1650-1740 and the most usual way to close a shirt is indeed two buttonholes and a ribbon to close it. Towards the 1720s-30s buttons are coming more into use, still, two buttonholes can be seen as well still. Nicole --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hello again. > It is so quiet here these days, usually i get much more emails from > h-costume, but i guess you have all ben buisy with the hollidays. > Today i found a picture of the composer Vivaldi from 1723. It shows him in a > shirt. The collar of the shirt has 2 buttonholes in each side and there is a > drawstring to close the collar with. > Was this the ordinary way to close a shirt? > Was buttons more rare? > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 20:34:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17247 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:34:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA31ZENP007042; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:35:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA31Z47g029693; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA31Yf7g029584 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:34:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=99main.com) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1889ey-0006YG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 17:34:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3DC47C72.2070103@99main.com> From: Marilyn Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) References: <3DC1055F.20701@kabelfoon.nl> <3DC3D1D4.3080900@99main.com> <001c01c28276$bb37e6f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 20:31:30 -0500 Status: RO Not a clue, I am in america and he is in germany....I just saw the post about the book onlist and asked him if he would consider getting it for me;-) margali Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi. > I went and looked at some pictures from the exhibition. That bodice is very > interresting. There are very few garments left from this time. I must have > their catalog, cause i cant go. > Can you buy their catalog from the museum shop? > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- >>HAPPY DANCE!!!!!!! >> >>My luftwaffe buddy has family in Munich that he is visiting in a >>couple weeks and he is going to go look for the book for me as a >>christmas present !!!!!!!!!!!! >> >>*poing* *poing* *poing* >> >>margali _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 22:06:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17710 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:06:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3373NP010912; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA33717g019758; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA336G7g019600 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:06:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from BOSTONHAHN@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.11f.193dc5fc (30950) for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:06:07 -0500 (EST) From: BOSTONHAHN@aol.com Message-ID: <11f.193dc5fc.2af5ec9f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_11f.193dc5fc.2af5ec9f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10581 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:06:07 EST Status: RO --part1_11f.193dc5fc.2af5ec9f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have friends in Germany who wrote me about this exhibition. To make things worse one of the curators is even running a workshop on how to reproduce a man's doublet (1630). I wished I could go. The book is supposed to be excellent. It cost Euros 25.00 and I am fairly sure you can order it either from the museum shop or contact the museum directly. It also is supposed to have patterns in it. I asked my friends when they attend the workshop to take good notes and to PLEASE PLEASE share them and get me copies of whatever handouts they will get. I will share once I have them. Elisabeth --part1_11f.193dc5fc.2af5ec9f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have friends in Germany who wrote me about this exhibition.  To make things worse one of the curators is even running a workshop on how to reproduce a man's doublet (1630).  I wished I could go.  The book is supposed to be excellent.  It cost Euros 25.00  and I am fairly sure you can order it either from the museum shop or contact the museum directly.  It also is supposed to have patterns in it.  I asked my friends when they attend the workshop to take good notes and to PLEASE PLEASE share them and get me copies of whatever handouts they will get.  I will share once I have them.
Elisabeth --part1_11f.193dc5fc.2af5ec9f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 22:19:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17750 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:19:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA33K3NP011395; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA33K17g022717; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA33J17g022520 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 6986 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 03:19:00 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 03:19:00 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-119.sonic.net [209.148.112.119]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gA33Ix029388 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:18:59 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DC495DF.72818635@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) References: <11f.193dc5fc.2af5ec9f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 19:19:59 -0800 Status: RO What is the name of the museum and the exhibit, and what is the title of the book? Thanks, Fran Grimble BOSTONHAHN@aol.com wrote: > I have friends in Germany who wrote me about this exhibition. To > make things worse one of the curators is even running a workshop on > how to reproduce a man's doublet (1630). I wished I could go. The > book is supposed to be excellent. It cost Euros 25.00 and I am > fairly sure you can order it either from the museum shop or contact > the museum directly. It also is supposed to have patterns in it. I > asked my friends when they attend the workshop to take good notes > and to PLEASE PLEASE share them and get me copies of whatever > handouts they will get. I will share once I have them. > Elisabeth -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 2 23:42:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18033 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:42:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA34hCNP014403; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:43:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA34h17g009252; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA34gN7g009029 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:42:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021103044217.RQCI5946.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 04:42:17 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021102203046.00a22090@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] spanish surcoat Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 20:33:05 -0800 Status: RO I want to find out about the spanish surcoat. Anyone have any places to send me? not to be indelicate, but what would one wear under it if you were wearing it instead of a gown. also, what time frame would they span? thanks >_________________________________________________________________ >Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband. Join now! >http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 00:26:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18162 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 00:26:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA35R3NP016067; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA35R07g017132; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA35QT7g017044 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:26:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a223.in-tch.com [66.62.107.23]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA35B5D16758 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:11:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DC4B391.CDF8AAD8@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mans shirt 1723 References: <002601c281f6$7cb85bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:26:41 -0700 Status: RO Hi, Bjarne....No holidays in my parts (Election Day coming up on Tuesday, but that's not a holiday for me). Just really busy. Plus, I was internet-less for a while--my ISP got hacked, and they had to "institute security measures" (isn't that a meaningless phrase....). They changed all our passwords (yeah, without notifying folks beforehand), and everyone's without access until their new, individual passwords get put into the system. I'm okay as of this evening. Obligatory Costume Content: Went down to JoAnn's (local and only fabric place) to buy some polar fleece to make an extra blanket for my bed. They have this little, tiny island of wool (maybe 12 bolts, total? and some are pinstripes.....*sigh*). I got 5 yds of this lovely, light-weight wool twill that's a very dark red/brown (burgundy? maroon? but without the "blue" tones--more like a very, very dark brick red). It's gonna be an undergown for the 16th c. Flemish wardrobe I'm working on (which makes it all Drea's fault....;-P) It's in the washing machine as I type, getting itself fulled. I just *love* the expressions on the salesladies' faces when I mention tossing $10/yd, dry-clean only fabric into a washing machine, and they're all over themselves, trying to tell me why that's a *bad* idea, and I'm trying to explain to them that I *want* the wool to behave like wool! :-) Now, if I could just find a source for mid-16th c. shoes...the obvious sources I've got are all either earlier or later....hmmmm...... --sue, hoping you're all having a great weekend! Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hello again. > It is so quiet here these days, usually i get much more emails from > h-costume, but i guess you have all ben buisy with the hollidays. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 00:32:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18176 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 00:32:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA35X3NP016292; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA35X17g018219; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA35Wa7g018120 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:32:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a223.in-tch.com [66.62.107.23]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA35HCD18069 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:17:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DC4B500.C08A4CC7@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Halloween costume photos? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:32:48 -0700 Status: RO Wow! I'm impressed! And the costume looks good, too! --sue, who didn't do Halloween this year..... Kala Jathos wrote: > > Welllll... I've only got two pictures of mine. Not very good quality, > staging, etc, because they were taken at the costume shop where I work in > between classes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 01:45:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18382 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 01:45:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA36j9NP018747; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:45:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA36j17g001476; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA36hw7g001275 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9631 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 06:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.246.78]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 3 Nov 2002 06:43:57 -0000 Message-ID: <004c01c28304$62448240$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021102203046.00a22090@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] spanish surcoat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 01:43:56 -0500 Status: RO First stop- Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion (the earliest of the time periods). At the back are 2 examples of the style (as well as examples of what to wear under it). What country are you looking at? The English wore different underthings than the Spanish or the Italians. Time period also changes things (i.e. Elizabeth I wore a bodice with beaded underskirt and trimmed overskirt with one in a portrait of her and the 3 goddesses- but earlier periods tended to be more relaxed). Lyn Greaves ----- Original Message ----- From: "MaryAnn Jones" To: ; Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 11:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] spanish surcoat > I want to find out about the spanish surcoat. Anyone have any places to > send me? not to be indelicate, but what would one wear under it if you > were wearing it instead of a gown. also, what time frame would they span? > thanks > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband. Join now! > >http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 09:58:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24490 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:58:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3ExINP002520; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 07:59:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Ex07g017362; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 07:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Ewt7g017348 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 07:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.118] (pm4-118.eos.net [205.133.149.118]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26522 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:58:52 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021102190008.825.11165.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: forehead cloths Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:56:44 -0500 Status: RO Let me begin by saying that I don't have the slightest idea of how "forehead cloths" or "cross cloths" or whatever they're called were actually worn. I saw instructions somewhere that I can't recall, so I can't vouch for them. But this is what I do. I have a square of white linen that I fold in half on the cross, with two strips of flat lacing on the corners. I pull my hair back (I have bangs, and they are so hard to control) and put this on like a scarf, with the long fold on the bias covering the upper part of my forehead. I take the laces OVER my head, about the top of my head, and tie them back at my neck. Then I wear coifs or other headgear on top. I tried this once with a specific headdress and now I wear it for almost anything. It keeps my hair under control!!!! Believe me, that is a first for me. It rarely moves, and it's a great anchor for pins and other fabric bits. So there you go, I hope it helps someone else. Gail Finke PS: I remember now, this was partly inspired by someone on the list talking about how muslim women hold their veils on. I looked at a couple of Muslim veil web sites and saw that they can buy little headpieces that keep the veils on, and I thought the directions I'd once read (again, I have no idea where) for a forehead cloth would work the same way. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 11:46:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24975 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:46:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3GkNNP007418; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:46:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Gk17g007742; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Gjh7g007670 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:45:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2478 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 16:45:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.195.214]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 3 Nov 2002 16:45:42 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c28358$7a9d8720$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Sale - European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum of Art Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:45:55 -0500 Status: RO I found this on sale, while looking for something else, of course. The price - under $10! is so tempting I just had to share. Does anyone have this book, or know about it? I have a very old address book from them with a lot of miniatures in it, and I treasure that. Rowena By Graham Reynolds, with Katharine Baetjer. A catalogue of the Museum's collection of European portrait miniatures, dating from the early 16th century to about 1850. 224 pages, 380 illustrations (60 in color). 9 1/2 in. x 11 1/4 in. Cloth. Original price $65.00 European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum of Art E0689 Member Price: $8.96 each Non-Member Price: $9.95 each _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 12:02:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25088 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:02:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3H38NP008101; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:03:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3H277g010842; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:02:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3H157g010602 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:01:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip47.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.47]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gA3H0cY11792 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:00:39 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] spanish surcoat Message-ID: <3DC4E53F.20375.185B3290@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20021102203046.00a22090@mail.attbi.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 08:58:39 -0800 Status: RO > I want to find out about the spanish surcoat. Anyone have any places > to send me? not to be indelicate, but what would one wear under it if > you were wearing it instead of a gown. also, what time frame would > they span? thanks The first of these seem to show up on women during the 1540's. (Christina of Denmark in the famous Holbein painting, for example.) For men they seem to be an outgrowth of the gowns they were wearing (such as Henry VII and several other brasses and manuscripts from the 1480s). They can be found at least through the early 17th Century, although they changed in form. How they were made depends on the time period and place. Some (such as the ones in Alcega's pattern book or the Milanese Tailor Book) are fairly simple. Some of the later ones, such as those in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620 are more complicated in terms of cut and pleating. As to what was worn under them, in period they were a coat. They always had some sort of outfit under them such as a loose gown (A- line type of thing), dress (with bodice and skirt made as one), bodice and skirt (separate pieces, can be plain or fancy such as heavily beaded). (By bodice I mean something like a man's doublet as the can be seen in many paintings.) The coat was often worn open so that the dress can be seen (Boucher's 20,000 Years of Fashion has many examples of these coats.) In some of the later periods they might be firmly closed down the front to the waist, then expand out over the farthingale showing a forepart or skirt beneath. But the bodice was seen in the sleeves which are exposed since this type often had short puffed sleeves. Probably the easiest way to wear them (which was also done in period, by the way) is to wear an A-line dress underneath. It can be plain or fancy. The nice thing about this combination is that it expands for pregnancy or when we are overweight or in the process of losing weight, and it doesn't require as much fitting as those with bodices (either attached in a dress or separate with a skirt.) However, if you don't really care if it has all the correct underpinings, then you can wear a chemise and skirt underneath, making sure that the bodice part of the coat is firmly closed, with fake sleeves attached to the coat beneath the short puffed sleeves or coming out of the split sleeves. This is sort of a theatrical fake but I've seen it a lot. (I personally prefer to do A-lines if I want something simple.) Of course, when you have to run for the bathroom in the middle of the night or you get called to court in the middle of packing up your encampment, a surcoat is *really* handy just to throw over your clothes in a hurry. (But this is an emergency purpose, not for regular wear.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 13:42:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25511 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 13:42:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3IhBNP012929; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Ih1Ut004500; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3IgPUt004283 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:42:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021103184220.TKTX1315.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 13:42:20 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sale - European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum of Art Message-ID: <000001c28328$df22de50$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000c01c28358$7a9d8720$01fea8c0@vaio> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 06:05:02 -0500 Status: RO Can you remember where you saw this at this price? Please don't tease the booklovers like this! Pax, Linda -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rowena Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 11:46 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Sale - European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum of Art I found this on sale, while looking for something else, of course. The price - under $10! is so tempting I just had to share. Does anyone have this book, or know about it? I have a very old address book from them with a lot of miniatures in it, and I treasure that. Rowena By Graham Reynolds, with Katharine Baetjer. A catalogue of the Museum's collection of European portrait miniatures, dating from the early 16th century to about 1850. 224 pages, 380 illustrations (60 in color). 9 1/2 in. x 11 1/4 in. Cloth. Original price $65.00 European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum of Art E0689 Member Price: $8.96 each Non-Member Price: $9.95 each _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 13:47:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25531 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 13:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Im0NP013160; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Im0Ut005620; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Il0Ut005406 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14131 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 18:47:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.195.214]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 3 Nov 2002 18:47:00 -0000 Message-ID: <001701c28369$6cbfa960$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <000001c28328$df22de50$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sale - European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum of Art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 13:47:13 -0500 Status: RO At the Metropolitan Museum web site. metmuseum.org > Can you remember where you saw this at this price? > > Subject: [h-cost] Sale - European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum > of Art > > I found this on sale, while looking for something else, of course. The > price - under $10! is so tempting I just had to share. Does anyone > have > this book, or know about it? I have a very old address book from them > with > a lot of miniatures in it, and I treasure that. > Rowena > > > By Graham Reynolds, with Katharine Baetjer. A catalogue of the Museum's > collection of European portrait miniatures, dating from the early 16th > century to about 1850. > 224 pages, 380 illustrations (60 in color). 9 1/2 in. x 11 1/4 in. > Cloth. > > Original price $65.00 > European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum of Art > E0689 > Member Price: $8.96 each > Non-Member Price: $9.95 each _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 14:06:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25617 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:06:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3J77NP014258; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3J76Ut010013; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3J6KUt009750 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021103190615.TQNS1315.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:06:15 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gothic Cape/ (was Timely Topic) Message-ID: <000001c2832c$363ad460$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 06:28:57 -0500 Status: RO Wanda and Claire~ Thanks for the responses, I appreciate your thoughts. I agree that an off-center opening is extremely practical, in fact it's how I arrange all my earlier period cloaks and wraps. A large rectangle of fabric and a brooch to fasten it on the shoulder is quick, easy cheap and versatile, as well as correct for early periods. It's also much warmer than traditional capes. Having spent the entire day yesterday outside, where it was mid 40's F and a stiff NW wind blowing, I can say with certainty that a full front-opening cloak is neither practical nor warm. ;o> The 18th c. trader woman down the road was fairing MUCH better in her ankle length wool blanket-coat. It looked like a big red wool bathrobe, and she said she was toasty in it. I was quite envious! What is your opinion of the pelicon, the giant circle-shaped kind with no real opening except two slits for the hands to come through when necessary? It also has a hood which buttons up to close the face as much as possible. It looks warm, and with no opening to flap around it might be a useful cold-weather option. Sorry, I don't have a link to an image, maybe somebody else does? I was trying to determine if Lady Lyndewode was wearing such a garment, I can't really tell if her hands are between the front opening lines or if they are poking through long slits in the cloak itself. The lines up near the bottom edges of her veil get rather indeterminate, so it's hard to tell for sure. And Wanda, I bet you made a charming Little Red Riding Hood! How fun! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Wanda Pease Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:26 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gothic Cape/ (was Timely Topic) Linda and Claire, I must admit I don't have a picture to hand of a woman wearing her cloak like this. However! I don't have a picture of a woman wearing a coat (except in the 1600's either :-). The good thing about the side opening cloak is that it IS a period solution to the problem of walking and having your cover fly open and let in the elements. I suspect we see the central opening cloaks on women because they are particularly formal items rather than "useful", but don't hold me to it. The other possibility for an early period is of course the Manesse guardcorps which are seen on both men and women. Another dodge that is modern, but would get you the look of a center opening cape combined with a "coat" that fits fairly closely to the body is something I bought 20 years ago as ready-to-wear. it was a cylindrical, knee length sleeveless "coat" with a 2/3 circle cape attached at the neck and a bit down the front arm hole opening. The coat part protected you all around while the cape part belled out and looked good. I added a hood with capelet to add extra warmth/rain protection (at that time I was in Drachenwald, Knights Crossing and rain was still the problem). I loved it, even though the entire outfit made me feel a bit like Little Red Riding Hood (we weren't far from the country of the Brothers Grimm). Whether the hood on the men's cloaks is attached or not is anybody's guess. I suspect that it is separate in some way because I have problems figuring out how they would be attached and get that effect. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Cape/ (was Timely Topic) Linda Rice wrote: > Thanks for the great suggestion and illos, Wanda. I noticed that while > the cape is buttoned down the right shoulder, the hood arrangement is > situated correctly on the head. Do you think that the cape and hood are > separate items, (thus the hoodless cape is simply rotated to open > off-center) or is this an integral feature of a one-piece garment? > > Also, the brasses show this treatment for men's capes. Do you think it's > appropriate for women's capes as well? The brass of John Lyndewode and > his wife shows something completely different for her. > > Thank you, I appreciate any insight anyone may have. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 14:51:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25834 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:51:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Jo4NP016110; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3Jo1Ut019173; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3JnVUt019034 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:49:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021103194926.TZCN1315.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:49:26 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sale - European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum of Art Message-ID: <000101c28332$3f29e970$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001701c28369$6cbfa960$01fea8c0@vaio> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 07:12:09 -0500 Status: RO Oh! Duh! I looked at Amazon and B&N, but didn't think to look at the 'source'! Thanks! Linda -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rowena Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 1:47 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sale - European Miniatures in the Metropolitan Museum of Art At the Metropolitan Museum web site. metmuseum.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 18:12:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26737 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:12:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3ND8NP025668; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:13:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3ND1Ut005355; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13406.mail.yahoo.com (web13406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA3NC4Ut005144 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:12:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021103231204.99669.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.192.133.188] by web13406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:12:04 PST From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] winter hand covers To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <006301c28273$abc109c0$655183d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 15:12:04 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Gloves, mittens and mitts (like a glove, but ending about halfway down the hand; there are examples in Bradfield and in Burnston's _Fitting and Proper_ were all used. Cheers, Mara --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Our 1790s house "on the frontier" has queried what women might use > for warmth of their hands, particularly on the street, The > population is diverse. Were gloves, mittens or even muffs in common > use? Kathleen > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 18:13:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26741 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:13:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3NE0NP025744; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3NE0Ut005650; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13407.mail.yahoo.com (web13407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA3NDTUt005528 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:13:29 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021103231328.93724.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.192.133.188] by web13407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:13:28 PST From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] winter hand covers To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <006301c28273$abc109c0$655183d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 15:13:28 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Oops, just realized this doesn't make much sense. Trying again: Gloves, mittens and mitts (like a glove, but ending about halfway down the hand; there are examples in Bradfield and in Burnston's _Fitting and Proper_) were all used. Simple knitted woolen gloves or mittens would be a good choice. Cheers, Mara --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Our 1790s house "on the frontier" has queried what women might use > for warmth of their hands, particularly on the street, The > population is diverse. Were gloves, mittens or even muffs in common > use? Kathleen > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 18:49:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26876 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:49:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3NoENP027480; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:50:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA3NoCUt013884; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:50:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12001.mail.yahoo.com (web12001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA3NngUt013737 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:49:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021103234942.19968.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.232] by web12001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:49:42 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] embroidery designs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 15:49:42 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Hi all, Is there a site somewhere or has someone researched embroidery designs used on shifts and chemises from 1800-1910. I'm getting my winter projects ready and need to start with the under-garments which means lots of embroidery, about which I know nothing. Also where is a good place to get insertion lace and lace with two scalloped edges? All the shops around here have lace with one flat and one scalloped edge or the lace looks so polyester it's ridiculous. Thanks. Is there a American Civil War ladies costume list or site that is particularly good. I can't seem to find the Civil War lady magazine stats and it looks like it has had some really good articles. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 19:03:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26948 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:03:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4031NP028072; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4030Ut016762; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA4029Ut016517 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpGBqxYR8ZYsUjZ2VxrjH07H+nVKu3ALCA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HGQUN4QP; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 19:01:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery designs Message-ID: <20021103.180201.-166349.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,7-11 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:02:01 -0600 Status: RO My favorite online place for trims and laces is: www.cheeptrims.com which has everything one could possibly want. You have to buy in moderate bulk, but most of the stuff I make takes many yards of trims and lace anyway. The prices are the best I've found and they ship quickly. I've never had a problem with any of my orders. No affiliation- just a happy customer. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 19:09:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26975 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:09:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA40A1NP028380; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA40A0Ut018456; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA409LUt018230 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m241.in-tch.com [216.166.191.241]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA3NruD09988 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:53:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DC5BABC.F0A0BF32@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery designs References: <20021103234942.19968.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:09:32 -0700 Status: RO Hi, Cassandra. I'm afraid I don't know anything at all about 19th c. lingerie embroidery (lovely stuff, but not a time period I've studied). As far as the insert-lace goes, ISTR the Lacemaker sells it (at least they used to have some laces in their catalogue...dunno about the website). You might also check Lacis, Hedgehog Handiworks, and Amazon Dry Goods. They're all on-line, AFAIK. --sue, working on her own "winter to-do" list ;-D Cascio Michael wrote: > > Hi all, > Is there a site somewhere or has someone > researched embroidery designs used on shifts and > chemises from 1800-1910. I'm getting my winter > projects ready and need to start with the > under-garments which means lots of embroidery, about > which I know nothing. Also where is a good place to > get insertion lace and lace with two scalloped edges? > All the shops around here have lace with one flat and > one scalloped edge or the lace looks so polyester it's > ridiculous. Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 19:10:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26984 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:10:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA40B0NP028446; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA40B0Ut018691; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA40AgUt018612 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:10:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AB013035021A; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:10:41 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB00142000A8; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:10:40 -0600 Message-ID: <007f01c28396$95cd7bc0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20021103234942.19968.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery designs X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:10:29 -0500 Status: RO Cassandra, I have some embroidery patterns online for guimpes at http://www.costumegallery.com/McCalls/May_1908/Embroidery.htm I have several beautiful designs in my Delineator collection. On day they will be online. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cascio Michael" To: Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 6:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] embroidery designs > Hi all, > Is there a site somewhere or has someone > researched embroidery designs used on shifts and > chemises from 1800-1910. I'm getting my winter > projects ready and need to start with the > under-garments which means lots of embroidery, about > which I know nothing. Also where is a good place to > get insertion lace and lace with two scalloped edges? > All the shops around here have lace with one flat and > one scalloped edge or the lace looks so polyester it's > ridiculous. Thanks. > Is there a American Civil War ladies costume list > or site that is particularly good. I can't seem to > find the Civil War lady magazine stats and it looks > like it has had some really good articles. > Cassandra > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 20:25:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27424 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:25:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA41Q3NP002467; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA41Q1Ut007225; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA41P2Ut007023 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.135] (pm4-135.eos.net [205.133.149.135]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15636 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:25:00 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021103170205.10827.62405.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: spanish surcote Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:22:07 -0500 Status: RO Everyone else gave such great answers that I'm adding an afterthought. Sometimes things seem obvious to the writer, but they arent' to the reader. So in case this wasn't obvious . . . The important thing to remember is that you still wear the undergarments with the Spanish surcote. It can indeed be a shortcut or a way to avoid wearing a lot of garments, but it's not an alternative to, say, wearing a corset. Janet Arnold's book does show a lot of examples. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 20:41:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27515 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:41:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA41g1NP003165; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA41g0Ut010652; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA41fHUt010482 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpGBqxYR8ZYsfgvqlIvDWYdO++br7zyO+w=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HGQ2C74B; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:40:43 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: spanish surcote Message-ID: <20021103.194106.-166349.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,6-10,12-34 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:41:06 -0600 Status: RO Just don't wear a bumroll! I've never seen a portrait that had a surcote that showed any evidence of hip padding, and the one time I saw someone try it, it just looked nasty and wrong. But you should definitely be wearing the rest of the underpinnings, you need the corset for the correct lines even under a surcote, especially if you do one of the mroe fitted 'princess line' versions. Karen On Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:22:07 -0500 Gail & Scott Finke writes: > > Everyone else gave such great answers that I'm adding an > afterthought. > Sometimes things seem obvious to the writer, but they arent' to the > reader. > So in case this wasn't obvious . . . The important thing to remember > is that > you still wear the undergarments with the Spanish surcote. It can > indeed be > a shortcut or a way to avoid wearing a lot of garments, but it's not > an > alternative to, say, wearing a corset. Janet Arnold's book does show > a lot > of examples. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 21:34:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27727 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:34:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA42Z3NP005697; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA42Z1Ut022230; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA42YYUt022122 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:34:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.f.167bcee (3858) for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:34:23 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery designs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f.167bcee.2af736af_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:34:23 EST Status: RO --part1_f.167bcee.2af736af_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:50:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes: > > Is there a site somewhere or has someone > researched embroidery designs used on shifts and > chemises from 1800-1910. I have some mid-century shifts with embroidered necklines and sleeve ends. I could try to take some pictures, but they are white on white. It would be a good chance to test my skills with my new digicam. I'll go to the storage unit tomorrow and get them [I've only got about 3 or 4] and see if I can get a decent photo. I'll post and let you know if it worked out and then you [and anyone else] can send me their e-mail address and I'll zip the pics up and send them out. I'll also do the pantalets hems too. May be someone can accurately date them for me. --part1_f.167bcee.2af736af_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:50:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes:



   Is there a site somewhere or has someone
researched embroidery designs used on shifts and
chemises from 1800-1910.


I have some mid-century shifts with embroidered necklines and sleeve ends. I could try to take some pictures, but they are white on white. It would be a good chance to test my skills with my new digicam.

I'll go to the storage unit tomorrow and get them [I've only got about 3 or 4] and see if I can get a decent photo. I'll post and let you know if it worked out and then you [and anyone else] can send me their e-mail address and I'll zip the pics up and send them out.

I'll also do the pantalets hems too. May be someone can accurately date them for me. --part1_f.167bcee.2af736af_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 22:44:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28077 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:44:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA43j3NP009229; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA43j1Ut008134; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA43ilUt008055 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com ([12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021104034441.EFWV14374.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@cc632021-b.attbi.com>; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 03:44:41 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021103193339.00a23c60@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: spanish surcote In-Reply-To: <20021103.194106.-166349.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 19:35:28 -0800 Status: RO thanks all for your information. it is such a blessing to be able to go to this group and get the answers immediately. I ordered the pattern and know what I am going to do. I actually was wondering about the bum roll. I am going to make my corset as soon as I find somebody to tape me, now that I finally found the tape. It is all such an adventure. thanks again, maryann At 07:41 PM 11/3/2002 -0600, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: >Just don't wear a bumroll! I've never seen a portrait that had a surcote >that showed any evidence of hip padding, and the one time I saw someone >try it, it just looked nasty and wrong. > >But you should definitely be wearing the rest of the underpinnings, you >need the corset for the correct lines even under a surcote, especially if >you do one of the mroe fitted 'princess line' versions. > >Karen > > >On Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:22:07 -0500 Gail & Scott Finke >writes: > > > > Everyone else gave such great answers that I'm adding an > > afterthought. > > Sometimes things seem obvious to the writer, but they arent' to the > > reader. > > So in case this wasn't obvious . . . The important thing to remember > > is that > > you still wear the undergarments with the Spanish surcote. It can > > indeed be > > a shortcut or a way to avoid wearing a lot of garments, but it's not > > an > > alternative to, say, wearing a corset. Janet Arnold's book does show > > a lot > > of examples. > > > > Gail Finke > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today >Only $9.95 per month! >Visit www.juno.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 3 23:25:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28204 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 23:24:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA44P2NP011457; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA44P1Ut016729; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA44OhUt016665 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:24:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2injrlq.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.238.186] helo=meza.wizardsoftware.org) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188Yn4-0004BZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 23:24:43 -0500 From: jlkelley X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Personal Organization: slight X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <131528295.20021103222224@ix.netcom.com> To: Cascio Michael Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery designs In-Reply-To: <20021103234942.19968.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021103234942.19968.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jlkelley List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:22:24 -0600 Status: RO You could try http://www.marthapullen.com/ she has beautiful lace for insertion and good instructions on how to do it. Also beautiful patterns some from historic clothes in her collection but a lot of it is for children. Still i cannot help but drool over most of the things i have ordered from her. Good service the times i have ordered. She has a beautiful magizine - sigh . . .to much i would love to try and not enough time to do it. i promice i am just a happy customer :) jonica _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 00:28:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28458 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:28:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA45T2NP014381; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA45T1Ut000545; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA45S0Ut000357 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m48.in-tch.com [216.166.191.48]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA45CYD29181 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:12:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DC60568.2818A60@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery designs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 22:28:08 -0700 Status: RO Writes what???? Did you hit "send" too soon? --Sue, who's never, never done that herself, of course! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 00:54:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28519 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:54:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA45t5NP015424; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA45t1Ut005905; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA45sKUt005723 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:54:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AB8CECBD01C8; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 23:54:20 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB8C239B011A; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 23:54:20 -0600 Message-ID: <015f01c283c6$9674de80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Nov. Online Costume Classes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:54:06 -0500 Status: RO We have three classes starting at the Costume Classroom www.costumeclassroom.com this week: ***Making an Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe: Elizabethan Gown (this is made with Margo's pattern) ***A Victorian Lady: Make Your Own Bustle Era Skirt ***Costume Analysis of Four Films Set in 1912-1914 We still have open slots for students in each class. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 04:28:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16538 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 04:28:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA49T5NP022784; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 02:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA49T0Ut017013; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 02:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail23.messagelabs.com (mail23.messagelabs.com [193.109.254.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA49SaUt016889 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 02:28:37 -0700 (MST) X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 3515 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 09:20:59 -0000 Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (193.60.149.5) by server-6.tower-23.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 09:20:59 -0000 Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gA49UpX13862.; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:30:52 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:27:28 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: forehead cloths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gA49SaUt016889 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:27:25 +0000 Status: RO The embroidered forehead cloths shown in http://costume.dm.net/headwear/coifpics.html appear to be a single triangular piece rather than a folded square; though the long edge would still be on the bias. Speaking as one with a strong, thick fringe (bangs) which it's difficult to keep out of the way when in costume, Gail's suggestion sounds worth trying. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> gailscott@eos.net 11/03/02 02:56pm >>> But this is what I do. I have a square of white linen that I fold in half on the cross, with two strips of flat lacing on the corners. I pull my hair back (I have bangs, and they are so hard to control) and put this on like a scarf, with the long fold on the bias covering the upper part of my forehead. I take the laces OVER my head, about the top of my head, and tie them back at my neck. Then I wear coifs or other headgear on top. ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 04:49:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16631 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 04:49:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA49o2NP023304; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 02:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA49o0Ut021306; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 02:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA49nWUt021233 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 02:49:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.85]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5100IOVPYJAY@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 01:49:32 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021104014738.00ca4460@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 01:49:25 -0800 Status: RO 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR Item # 974909500 The description is as 'good' as the pictures. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 06:40:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17015 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:40:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Bf2NP026194; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 04:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Bf0Ut008340; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 04:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4BeJUt008202 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 04:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (pcp02823258pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.255.99]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5100E8KV2VPU@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 06:40:10 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell In-reply-to: <20021104055500.5900.28980.Mailman@net.indra.com> X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021104063309.0387eea8@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Re: embroidery designs (Cascio Michael) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 06:39:56 -0500 Status: RO At 15:49 PM 11/3/2002 -0800, Cascio Michael asked: >Also where is a good place to get insertion lace >and lace with two scalloped edges? >All the shops around here have lace with one flat and >one scalloped edge or the lace looks so polyester it's >ridiculous. What you are looking for in the insertion lace is a shop that sells "heirloom sewing" supplies, such as Martha Pullen (already mentioned). You may find more clues in the back of _Sew Beautiful_ (Dr. Pullen's bimonthly heirloom sewing mag) or _Creative Needle_ (another heirloom sewing mag). The laces Dr. Pullen and her competitors sell are either all, or mostly, cotton and the insertion/attachment edges (depending on whether the lace is an insertion or an edging) have little drawstrings in them that you pull to make the lace lay flat along a curved edge. For the "two scalloped edges", look (among other things) for lace trims marked "galloon". Some vendors occasionally come up with several yards of vintage lace that they put up for sale; you may need to/want to inquire about this as well. You will of course need to pay attention to the patterns of the lace design if you are striving for perfect authenticity. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 06:54:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17058 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:54:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Bt2NP026635; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 04:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Bt1Ut010761; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 04:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4BsnUt010727 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 04:54:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from p104-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.209.104] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 188fod-0005SG-00; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:54:48 +1300 Message-ID: <001701c283f8$ff0b3d90$68d1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021104014738.00ca4460@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:54:45 +1300 Status: RO > 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR > Item # 974909500 > > The description is as 'good' as the pictures. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=974909500 Oh my, now I don't feel so bad for *losing* a costume competition. Just goes to show winners aren't always chosen for their accuracy.... I will not comment on a person's taste or what they like in a costume, but this should never have won any award for accuracy. That's my beef with it:) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 07:47:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17250 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:47:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Cm3NP028428; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Cm0Ut020439; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (smtp.netins.net [167.142.225.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Cl1Ut020184 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [167.142.12.86] (HELO hppav) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 168230673 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 06:47:00 -0600 Message-ID: <005001c28400$384e09a0$560c8ea7@hppav> From: "Land of Oz" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021104014738.00ca4460@mail.frys.com> <001701c283f8$ff0b3d90$68d1adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:46:39 -0600 Status: RO > > 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR > > Item # 974909500 > > > I will not comment on a person's taste or what they like in a costume, but > this should never have won any award for accuracy. That's my beef with it:) For those of us just learning, will someone point out some of the most obvious problems with this costume? I don't like the color, but that doesn't mean much. :-) Denise _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 07:51:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17260 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:51:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Cq1NP028635; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Cq1Ut021324; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4CpQUt021188 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.85]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5100G92YDODS@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 04:51:26 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery designs In-reply-to: <20021103234942.19968.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021104032342.04c327d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 04:50:17 -0800 Status: RO > Is there a site somewhere or has someone >researched embroidery designs used on shifts and >chemises from 1800-1910. I'm getting my winter >projects ready and need to start with the >under-garments which means lots of embroidery, about >which I know nothing. E-bay. As in, go to e-bay, poke around for corset covers, chemises, and petticoats, not to mention those filmy white garden-party dresses, and see what kinds of embroidery and lace are on the originals. Then you do whatever they did. Notice where there is hand embroidery, and where there is machine eyelet, machine bobbin lace, machine Valenciennes lace, crochet, or just tucking. Be sure to familiarize yourself with the shapes of the items you are making, so you'll know what you're looking at on e-bay. Some dealers describe things as 'Victorian' when what they have is Victorian-look, Victorian-style, or Gunnie Sax pieces. And other dealers will call anything 'Victorian', even if it was made after Victoria, or her successor, Edward, had died (I'm forever seeing "Victorian Flapper" dresses advertised). I just spent an hour poking around e-bay, to double-check and see if this message was worth posting. The following items were found when I went to " Home > All Categories > Clothing & Accessories > Vintage Clothing, Accessories > Clothing (Pre-1980)". Plug in the item numbers in the 'search' box to see what I found. 108 items found for Victorian dress c1900 VICTORIAN Eyelet LACE Dress BEAUTIFUL Item # 974185576 Victorian Cotton Summer Dress Item # 975390339 VICTORIAN White Cotton Baby Dress Item # 977567247 VICTORIAN BABY~INFANT DRESS~PARIS LACE~BEAUTY Item # 977719857 17 items found for Edwardian dress BEAUTIFUL GIRL'S EDWARDIAN WHITE DRESS Item # 975639246 Lovely Dotted Swiss Edwardian Tea Dress Item # 977988810 Edwardian LINGERIE DRESS Eyelet & Lace 1908 Item # 977941269 2 items found for Edwardian camisole Edwardian eyelet camisole, MOP buttons Item # 975071784 Gibson Girl 1900s Camisole Edwardian Era Item # 977797627 5 items found for Victorian camisole beautiful~ANTIQUE/VINTAGE CAMISOLE~victorian Item # 975619483 Sweet and Sexy Victorian camisole Item # 977666739 Victorian Chemise or Camisole Item # 977296103 Victorian Camisole/Corset Cover~Filet Lace!! Item # 975644550 8 items found for Victorian petticoat 1890's victorian petticoat, look! Item # 975140216 Full Length Victorian Lace Petticoat! Item # 975291332 VICTORIAN PETTICOAT SLIP W/ EMBROIDERED GAUZE Item # 975616274 DARLING CHILD'S ANTIQUE VICTORIAN PETTICOAT Item # 977974289 Victorian Muslin Petticoat Crochet Trim Item # 975709307 Vintage VICTORIAN White dbl Flounce PETTICOAT Item # 977968453 4 items found for Edwardian petticoat Edwardian Petticoat Pin Tucks Lace 30" Waist Item # 975072504 Old Edwardian Cotton Lacey Petticoat Sz LG! Item # 975363855 Vintage FRENCH EDWARDIAN Long Slip PETTICOAT Item # 977565484 2 items found for corset cover 1910 +/- Risque corset cover net and ribbon Item # 974976786 3 items found for drawers Victorian/Edwardian Child's Buttoned Drawers Item # 975073705 VICTORIAN COTTON BLOOMERS DRAWERS LACE OPENED Item # 977421031 33 items found for chemise VINTAGE - ANTIQUE CHEMISE MUST SEE!! Item # 975439207 Silk Chemise w/Lace--tea colored--Victorian Item # 975494843 Mint Irish Linen & Broderie Anglais Chemise Item # 975555346 Beautiful Vintage Chemise or Slip LOOK!! Item # 977926588 9th Century Ladies Chemise ID'd NO RESERVE Item # 975709061 15 items found for catalog 1886 Bloomingdale's Catalog Replica MINT Item # 973646189 (Dover reprint) 1891 JORDAN MARSH Illustrated Catalog! Item # 973913785 (reprint) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 08:07:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17309 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:07:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4D82NP029096; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4D81Ut024450; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4D7jUt024402 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:07:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-18-244.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.18.244] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188gxE-0001Bg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:07:44 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c28403$aa8052a0$f41224d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021104014738.00ca4460@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:11:19 -0000 Status: RO Kayta wrote: Subject: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" > 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR > Item # 974909500 > > The description is as 'good' as the pictures. This was supposed to be my first day 'up' after a lengthy bout of illness. Having looked at this I think I'll go back to bed... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 08:16:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17351 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:16:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4DH2NP029404; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4DH1Ut026183; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4DG0Ut025957 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-18-244.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.18.244] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188h5D-0002un-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:15:59 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c28404$d1ab5f40$f41224d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Ermine Muffs on E-bay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:19:34 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, Well, the first one is said to be from a museum, and to my untutored eye it looks rather more likely than the monstrosity that Kayta skewered for us. Any ideas on the dating of both of these? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=974980401&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=977505651 best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 08:21:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17375 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:21:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4DM1NP029570; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4DM1Ut027162; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4DLnUt027126 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:21:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA4DLnSb027125 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:21:49 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" Message-ID: <20021104062148.H5480@net.indra.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20021104014738.00ca4460@mail.frys.com> <000c01c28403$aa8052a0$f41224d9@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000c01c28403$aa8052a0$f41224d9@dan> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:21:49 -0700 Status: RO If you follow the link at the bottom to the maker's site, it looks like their custom work is mostly western US, mid to late 1800s. Was it called "Victorian" in the US? I know it wasn't Regency here, it was "Federalist". The gown from eBay is shown under the custom work link, and described as "an entertainer's gown". The maker is the one selling it. http://4dw.net/victorianwardrobe/Menu.html I know little about Victorian, and I know much less about western US during the same period. Perhaps because it's US, an entertainer's gown, and custom, all add up to make it not look like the sort of Victorian re-creation items I'm used to seeing. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 08:32:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17419 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:32:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4DX1NP000111; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4DX0Ut029400; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA4DWZUt029289 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 06:32:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021104133235.46439.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:32:35 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ermine Muffs on E-bay To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001401c28404$d1ab5f40$f41224d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:32:35 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Gods how UGLY!!! Rarely have I seen anything so awful *shudder* I don't have a clue from when that could be, sorry, but I did have to blurt out that I really rarely have ever seen such tasteless monstrosities. :-) Nicole > > Well, the first one is said to be from a museum, and to my untutored > eye it looks rather more likely than the monstrosity that Kayta > skewered for us. Any ideas on the dating of both of these? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=974980401&rd=1 > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=977505651 > > best wishes > > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 09:32:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17764 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:32:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4EX2NP003312; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4EX0Ut014824; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4EW1Ut014491 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a258.in-tch.com [66.62.107.58]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA4EGZD01004 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:16:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DC684EE.26376774@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" References: <4.3.1.2.20021104014738.00ca4460@mail.frys.com> <001701c283f8$ff0b3d90$68d1adcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:32:14 -0700 Status: RO I'm not a Victorian-era type, but somehow, this strikes me as a wierd recreation of some sort of two-part wedding dress. Modern wedding dress. Am I too far off, or is the beading just that overwhelming? --Sue, safely from the "we never do gaudy" 16th c.! ;-P michaela wrote: > > > 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR > > Item # 974909500 > > > > The description is as 'good' as the pictures. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=974909500 > Oh my, now I don't feel so bad for *losing* a costume competition. Just goes > to show winners aren't always chosen for their accuracy.... > > I will not comment on a person's taste or what they like in a costume, but > this should never have won any award for accuracy. That's my beef with it:) > > michaela > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce > http://recital.tripod.com/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 10:17:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22017 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:17:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4FI2NP006374; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4FI1Ut029943; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12002.mail.yahoo.com (web12002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA4FHqUt029866 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:17:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021104151752.96371.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.252] by web12002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:17:52 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] period embroidery Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:17:52 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Thanks for all the good information everyone. I'll be looking forward to how the digicam pics turn out. My daughter wants a really good digicam for her trip to Greece next June and we're planning a trip to Kent State and all their lovely costumes in July so it will be nice to see what someone can do with one when it comes to white-on-white pics. Cheeptrims looks good and so does Martha Pullen, particularly her Martha's attic close-up of antiques. Penny that McCalls' page is wonderful and in my absolute favorite time-frame --- Hips and bosom :-)! Now to add another project to my list. Has everyone doing late period seen the new Attic Copies at Past Patterns? Finally a 1896 blouse with those lovely huge sleeves. What would they have used for sleeve supports I wonder? Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 10:35:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22064 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:35:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Fa3NP007931; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Fa1Ut008187; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4FZEUt007812 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:35:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:34:16 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A36F2DB600D8; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:34:16 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:34:16 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" Message-ID: <000901c28417$dd785400$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <005001c28400$384e09a0$560c8ea7@hppav> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:35:53 -0600 Status: RO I took a look at this dress, and at her website. My first impression is, she has modified someone's wedding dress bodice. A modern one I mean. I have to give her credit, at least it doesn't have a zipper. Actually, if this was a quick costume put together on a budget, I could excuse its faults. But it certainly isn't worth what they want for it. The skirt has the correct shape, although the bodice does not. But the fabrics and lace look pretty tawdry--nylon and acetate. One glaring problem is the bodice and skirt are of completely different fabric and color. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Land of Oz Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 6:47 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" > > 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR > > Item # 974909500 > > > I will not comment on a person's taste or what they like in a costume, but > this should never have won any award for accuracy. That's my beef with it:) For those of us just learning, will someone point out some of the most obvious problems with this costume? I don't like the color, but that doesn't mean much. :-) Denise _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 11:04:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22263 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:04:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4G48NP010867; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:04:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4G41Ut021676; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA4G33Ut021164 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:03:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpNXT8TIK3mMjbsQ6Tqoa1Hn51EOOlhnoQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HGSKPZ9X; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:02:58 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" Message-ID: <20021104.100313.-899209.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 28-29,38-44,46-65 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:03:13 -0600 Status: RO Well, with my fairly newly acquired expertise in Victorian, I can see a couple of things that are wrong with this outfit. First of all, the bodice is pretty obviously a modern wedding gown pattern. Heck, with that color scheme it could have been salvaged FROM somebody's wedding gown! That neckline doesn't have anything to do with what was being worn during the late 1880's and those sleeves are more or less the sort which were more commonly found about 5 or 6 years later in the full flower of the 1890's. In the late 1880's the sleeve style was very fitted and close to the arm with (maybe) the slightest fullness at the very, very top. Basically it means that those sleeves would have never been worn with a bustle. There are ball gowns that show a bit of fuller sleeve, but these are invariably short. The dramatic color contrast between the bodice and skirt also seemed off to me, I don't see it either in my book of photos from the era, nor is it shown in fashion plates from the period and I looked at both and 'Harper's Bazaar' and 'La Mode Illustree' concentrating on ball gowns which I thought might be the closest analog to an 'entertainer's gown'. None of them showed a contrast that extreme. The inset 'gourd' (I know it's probably a typo, but given the rest of the description it strikes me as funny) is a period usage, but once again, the extreme contrast that the maker has chosen seems highly questionable given what appears to have been common practice. I believe that the shape of the bustle shown with the dress is also incorrect for the late bustle period. It shows the softer, more sloping line of the early bustle period rather than the very geometric, squared off shape of the late bustle period. In addition, the fact that the 'bustle' drape is just an oval(?) piece attached to the back of the skirt seems off to me as well. The period usage for bustle draping was that it was usually integrated into either the bodice (last gasp of the infamous 'cuirass' bodice) or into the front of the skirt with asymmetry being fashionable. Just as a personal note, I was out in Tombstone several years ago and saw a presentation by a group at the site of the OK Corral and while I enjoyed the enthusiastic 'community theater' atmosphere, the costuming was bargain basement B-grade Hollywood Western. If the maker is associated with this group, and it sounds like she might be, then the overall level of costuming she is used to being part of is pretty low on authenticity so this might actually be quite authentic by comparison. All in all, I'd call this a Fantasy Western/Victorian and just give up on tooting the authenticity horn. Just my groats worth, Karen On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 01:49:25 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR > Item # 974909500 > > The description is as 'good' as the pictures. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 12:00:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22502 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:00:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Gw7NP017373; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:58:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Gw2Ut022901; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Gv8Ut022438 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:57:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.184] (pm5-184.eos.net [205.133.149.184]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24847 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:57:05 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021104160401.21670.12115.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: prizewinning victorian Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:54:47 -0500 Status: RO My only comment is that I'm glad I don't have to see what the rest of the gowns in the competition looked like! If this is the best of a lot, then good for the seamstress. She's on her way, anyway, and I recall a few of us confessing our early works . . . Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 12:06:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22547 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:06:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4H62NP018189; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4H61Ut027647; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4H5qUt027537 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.194.fa90f0f (4426) for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:05:43 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <194.fa90f0f.2af802e7@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_194.fa90f0f.2af802e7_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:05:43 EST Status: RO --part1_194.fa90f0f.2af802e7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 6:55:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > > 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR > > Item # 974909500 > > > BLEK! The wig really enhances this item, no? --part1_194.fa90f0f.2af802e7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 6:55:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:


> 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR
> Item # 974909500
>


BLEK!

The wig really enhances this item, no? --part1_194.fa90f0f.2af802e7_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 12:15:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22630 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:15:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4HE5NP019106; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4HE1Ut002464; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4HD2Ut001758 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.9b.3012a118 (4426) for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:12:48 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <9b.3012a118.2af80490@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9b.3012a118.2af80490_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:12:48 EST Status: RO --part1_9b.3012a118.2af80490_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 7:48:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, landofoz@netins.net writes: > For those of us just learning, will someone point out some of the most > obvious problems with this costume? I don't like the color, but that doesn't > mean much. :-) > Well, everything. It just doesn't have any understanding of the esthetic of the period it's supposed to represent. Even if it were cut from an accurate pattern [yeah...right!], it would fail in every other respect. When designing for another period, not just copying from it, one must research until one gets the look and FEEL of tastes at the time. This goes beyond just clothes into fabrics, furniture, architecture, painting, manners, philosophy.....etc. Then one can put away the research and design. --part1_9b.3012a118.2af80490_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 7:48:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, landofoz@netins.net writes:


For those of us just learning, will someone point out some of the most
obvious problems with this costume? I don't like the color, but that doesn't
mean much.  :-)


Well, everything.

It just doesn't have any understanding of the esthetic of the period it's supposed to represent. Even if it were cut from an accurate pattern [yeah...right!], it would fail in every other respect.

When designing for another period, not just copying from it, one must research until one gets the look and FEEL of tastes at the time. This goes beyond just clothes into fabrics, furniture, architecture, painting, manners, philosophy.....etc. Then one can put away the research and design. --part1_9b.3012a118.2af80490_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 12:43:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23089 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:43:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Hh4NP022204; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Hh1Ut019935; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4HgAUt019424 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:42:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A0B5739033C; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:39:01 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c28429$dcc94a20$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <001401c28404$d1ab5f40$f41224d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ermine Muffs on E-bay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:44:43 -0500 Status: RO >From my own muff collection, I guess about 1905. This seems to be a period when muffs were getting rediscovered after the mid Victorian period. One that I have is black Persian lamb, with a matching stole...and yes, all those little tails! Very 'choice'. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:19 AM Subject: [h-cost] Ermine Muffs on E-bay > Hi all, > > Well, the first one is said to be from a museum, and to my untutored > eye it looks rather more likely than the monstrosity that Kayta > skewered for us. Any ideas on the dating of both of these? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=974980401&rd=1 > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=977505651 > > best wishes > > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 12:43:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23093 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:43:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4HhUNP022272; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:43:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4HhTUt020310; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:43:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA4HgUUt019610 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:42:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpNXT8TIK3mM/Oo7Dn1GoFmj2HsHjzrLJA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HGSRC9F8; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:41:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: prizewinning victorian Message-ID: <20021104.114223.-899209.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,8-14,16-18,20-32 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:42:22 -0600 Status: RO I'd be a lot more understanding if this was a first effort or an early effort. But if you follow the link on the page you will see that she is actually in business making stuff like this and has been for at least a year. In addition, she actually carries 'Truly Victorian' patterns as part of her stock so she had access to good design but failed to use it. But you are correct that we can't judge her winning of the prize as we don't know what the rest of the stuff looked like. Yegads, they were probably even worse! Karen On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:54:47 -0500 Gail & Scott Finke writes: > > My only comment is that I'm glad I don't have to see what the rest > of the gowns in the competition looked like! If this is the best of a lot, > then good for the seamstress. She's on her way, anyway, and I recall a > few of us confessing our early works . . . > > Gail Finke > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 12:47:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23120 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:47:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Hl2NP022649; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Hl1Ut022486; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4HkTUt022041 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:46:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A1B8DA1033C; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:43:20 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c2842a$76f29f20$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] Ermine Muffs on E-bay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:49:02 -0500 Status: RO The round muff [oh,well, oval then] may be from the last decade of the 19th C. KSM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:19 AM Subject: [h-cost] Ermine Muffs on E-bay > Hi all, > > Well, the first one is said to be from a museum, and to my untutored > eye it looks rather more likely than the monstrosity that Kayta > skewered for us. Any ideas on the dating of both of these? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=974980401&rd=1 > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=977505651 > > best wishes > > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 12:54:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23159 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:54:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Hs3NP023279; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Hs1Ut026417; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13402.mail.yahoo.com (web13402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA4HrmUt026261 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:53:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021104175347.77519.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:53:47 PST From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DC684EE.26376774@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:53:47 -0800 (PST) Status: RO That's what it looks like to me, too -- like someone went to the thrift shop and got a modern wedding dress and re-made it. It certainly doesn't look like a late 19th c. gown to me! Ah, well... As someone recently said -- to lots of people, History is just one big lump of old stuff with costumes. Just have to shake my head in amazement and move on. -- Mara --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > I'm not a Victorian-era type, but somehow, this strikes me as a > wierd > recreation of some sort of two-part wedding dress. Modern wedding > dress. Am I too far off, or is the beading just that overwhelming? > --Sue, safely from the "we never do gaudy" 16th c.! ;-P __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 13:01:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23218 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:01:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4I04NP023959; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4I03Ut029718; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4HxYUt029324 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:59:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A4C9D1C90308; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:56:25 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c2842c$4a9c9b40$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] embroidery designs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:02:07 -0500 Status: RO If you check Mrs. Beaton's orTreasures in Needlework by Mrs Warren and Mrs Pullan [first published in 1870] and re issued in 1973, you will find any number of patterns and instructions to ornament you nether white things. I do believe that colored work on lingerie was not considered in the best of taste. KSM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery designs > > > Is there a site somewhere or has someone > >researched embroidery designs used on shifts and > >chemises from 1800-1910. I'm getting my winter > >projects ready and need to start with the > >under-garments which means lots of embroidery, about > >which I know nothing. > > E-bay. As in, go to e-bay, poke around for corset covers, chemises, and > petticoats, not to mention those filmy white garden-party dresses, and see > what kinds of embroidery and lace are on the originals. Then you do > whatever they did. Notice where there is hand embroidery, and where there > is machine eyelet, machine bobbin lace, machine Valenciennes lace, crochet, > or just tucking. > > Be sure to familiarize yourself with the shapes of the items you are > making, so you'll know what you're looking at on e-bay. Some dealers > describe things as 'Victorian' when what they have is Victorian-look, > Victorian-style, or Gunnie Sax pieces. And other dealers will call > anything 'Victorian', even if it was made after Victoria, or her successor, > Edward, had died (I'm forever seeing "Victorian Flapper" dresses advertised). > > I just spent an hour poking around e-bay, to double-check and see if this > message was worth posting. The following items were found when I went to " > Home > All Categories > Clothing & Accessories > Vintage Clothing, > Accessories > Clothing (Pre-1980)". Plug in the item numbers in the > 'search' box to see what I found. > > 108 items found for Victorian dress > > c1900 VICTORIAN Eyelet LACE Dress BEAUTIFUL Item # 974185576 > Victorian Cotton Summer Dress Item # 975390339 > VICTORIAN White Cotton Baby Dress Item # 977567247 > VICTORIAN BABY~INFANT DRESS~PARIS LACE~BEAUTY Item # 977719857 > > 17 items found for Edwardian dress > > BEAUTIFUL GIRL'S EDWARDIAN WHITE DRESS Item # 975639246 > Lovely Dotted Swiss Edwardian Tea Dress Item # 977988810 > Edwardian LINGERIE DRESS Eyelet & Lace 1908 Item # 977941269 > > 2 items found for Edwardian camisole > > Edwardian eyelet camisole, MOP buttons Item # 975071784 > Gibson Girl 1900s Camisole Edwardian Era Item # 977797627 > > 5 items found for Victorian camisole > > beautiful~ANTIQUE/VINTAGE CAMISOLE~victorian Item # 975619483 > Sweet and Sexy Victorian camisole Item # 977666739 > Victorian Chemise or Camisole Item # 977296103 > Victorian Camisole/Corset Cover~Filet Lace!! Item # 975644550 > > 8 items found for Victorian petticoat > > 1890's victorian petticoat, look! Item # 975140216 > Full Length Victorian Lace Petticoat! Item # 975291332 > VICTORIAN PETTICOAT SLIP W/ EMBROIDERED GAUZE Item # 975616274 > DARLING CHILD'S ANTIQUE VICTORIAN PETTICOAT Item # 977974289 > Victorian Muslin Petticoat Crochet Trim Item # 975709307 > Vintage VICTORIAN White dbl Flounce PETTICOAT Item # 977968453 > > 4 items found for Edwardian petticoat > > Edwardian Petticoat Pin Tucks Lace 30" Waist Item # 975072504 > Old Edwardian Cotton Lacey Petticoat Sz LG! Item # 975363855 > Vintage FRENCH EDWARDIAN Long Slip PETTICOAT Item # 977565484 > > 2 items found for corset cover > > 1910 +/- Risque corset cover net and ribbon Item # 974976786 > > 3 items found for drawers > > Victorian/Edwardian Child's Buttoned Drawers Item # 975073705 > VICTORIAN COTTON BLOOMERS DRAWERS LACE OPENED Item # 977421031 > > 33 items found for chemise > > VINTAGE - ANTIQUE CHEMISE MUST SEE!! Item # 975439207 > Silk Chemise w/Lace--tea colored--Victorian Item # 975494843 > Mint Irish Linen & Broderie Anglais Chemise Item # 975555346 > Beautiful Vintage Chemise or Slip LOOK!! Item # 977926588 > 9th Century Ladies Chemise ID'd NO RESERVE Item # 975709061 > > 15 items found for catalog > > 1886 Bloomingdale's Catalog Replica MINT Item # 973646189 (Dover reprint) > 1891 JORDAN MARSH Illustrated Catalog! Item # 973913785 (reprint) > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 13:03:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23287 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:03:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4I31NP024285; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4I30Ut001554; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4I2LUt001118 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:02:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1c6.114cea9 (4254) for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:02:01 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <1c6.114cea9.2af81019@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: prizewinning victorian To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1c6.114cea9.2af81019_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:02:01 EST Status: RO --part1_1c6.114cea9.2af81019_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/02 9:01:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > She's on her way, anyway, and I recall a few of us > confessing our early works . . . > Let's see, the sleeves from L. Cranch's Portrait of Sybilla of Cleves attached by ties to a mid-fifteenth century fur trimmed V necked gown with false under gown which laced on both sides in a 100% gold polyester brocade. I got so many compliments on that dress too! It looked good to me at the time but not now. The unfortunate thing is it was for a friend's renewal of vows ceremony so the picture of it is prominently displayed in her home for all to see (and jeer)! It is true though, one does have to start somewhere. Lisa --part1_1c6.114cea9.2af81019_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/02 9:01:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes:


She's on her way, anyway, and I recall a few of us
confessing our early works . . .


Let's see, the sleeves from L. Cranch's Portrait of Sybilla of Cleves attached by ties to a mid-fifteenth century fur trimmed V necked gown with false under gown which laced on both sides in a 100% gold polyester brocade.  I got so many compliments on that dress too!  It looked good to me at the time but not now.  The unfortunate thing is it was for a friend's renewal of vows ceremony so the picture of it is prominently displayed in her home for all to see (and jeer)!  It is true though, one does have to start somewhere.

Lisa --part1_1c6.114cea9.2af81019_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 13:11:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23309 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:11:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4IB8NP025082; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4IB4Ut006219; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4IAWUt005859 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:10:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A75C17330336; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:07:24 -0500 Message-ID: <002701c2842d$d3573de0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021104014738.00ca4460@mail.frys.com> <001701c283f8$ff0b3d90$68d1adcb@michaela> <3DC684EE.26376774@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:13:06 -0500 Status: RO This strange ensemble had another life as a wedding gown and has been dickied up for entertainment for sure. The style and placement of the beaded motifs are right out of a costume supply catalogue. I sure hope that it isn't intended for an Historical event like a Christmas candlelight tour.If it survives in someone's closet for a hundred years, it will still be screaming "1990s" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" > I'm not a Victorian-era type, but somehow, this strikes me as a wierd > recreation of some sort of two-part wedding dress. Modern wedding > dress. Am I too far off, or is the beading just that overwhelming? > --Sue, safely from the "we never do gaudy" 16th c.! ;-P > > michaela wrote: > > > > > 7 pc. Victorian 1889 Beaded Bustle Gown NR > > > Item # 974909500 > > > > > > The description is as 'good' as the pictures. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=974909500 > > Oh my, now I don't feel so bad for *losing* a costume competition. Just goes > > to show winners aren't always chosen for their accuracy.... > > > > I will not comment on a person's taste or what they like in a costume, but > > this should never have won any award for accuracy. That's my beef with it:) > > > > michaela > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce > > http://recital.tripod.com/costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 13:17:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23359 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:17:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4IH3NP025675; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4IH1Ut009899; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4IFvUt009208 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:15:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.12b.1a4d6f42 (3932) for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:15:46 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <12b.1a4d6f42.2af81352@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_12b.1a4d6f42.2af81352_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:15:46 EST Status: RO --part1_12b.1a4d6f42.2af81352_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 9:33:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: > , this strikes me as a wierd > recreation of some sort of two-part wedding dress. Modern wedding > dress. My sentiments exactly. I late 19th century gown could be beaded, but not quite like this! Ann Wass --part1_12b.1a4d6f42.2af81352_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 9:33:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes:


, this strikes me as a wierd
recreation of some sort of two-part wedding dress.  Modern wedding
dress. 


My sentiments exactly.  I late 19th century gown could be beaded, but not quite like this!
Ann Wass --part1_12b.1a4d6f42.2af81352_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 13:22:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23388 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:22:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4IM1NP026208; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4IM0Ut012940; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4ILDUt012437 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:21:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.187.108e3818 (3932) for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:21:02 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <187.108e3818.2af8148e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: prizewinning victorian To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_187.108e3818.2af8148e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:21:02 EST Status: RO --part1_187.108e3818.2af8148e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 12:01:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > and I recall a few of us > confessing our early works . . . > > Yes, mine was truly awful--a LOT worse than this, but I didn't try to sell it for almost $2000, either. Ann Wass --part1_187.108e3818.2af8148e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 12:01:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes:


and I recall a few of us
confessing our early works . . .



Yes, mine was truly awful--a LOT worse than this, but I didn't try to sell it for almost $2000, either.
Ann Wass --part1_187.108e3818.2af8148e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 14:24:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23792 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:24:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4JO9NP003777; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4JO2Ut020721; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4JNEUt020230 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:23:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp163.directcon.net [206.170.184.163]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gA4JMxsC017427; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:23:00 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021104112646.01006ec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Efforts, was: prizewinning victorian In-Reply-To: <1c6.114cea9.2af81019@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:26:46 -0800 Status: RO > She's on her way, anyway, and I recall a few of us > confessing our early works . . . 1977: "Elizabethan Court Dress", pale yellow lightweight satin, with black velvet accents and gold sequin embellished braid. Heavily darted bodice worn over 50's Merry Widow, becasue I'd read that they wore corsets. 18th century style ladder of bows up the front of the bodice, further embellished with swags of gold chain and filligree bits. Huge mahoitered sleeves, with the upper puffs smocked with gold beads, and the lower portions fastened with zippers. Back of the bodice fastened with hooks and eyes, and had ribbons tacked on in a crisscross pattern to make it look like it laced! Forepart of black velvet latticed with cotton lace that I spray painted gold, and rossettes of those plastic faceted beads that crafter grandmas use. At first I wore this with no petticoats at all, for fear of looking fat. Later I figured out I should have a hoop, and made one out of wire that buckled and flooped into weird parabola shapes when I wore it. "Standing" ruff of black lace, that wouldn't stand, so it flopped down my back. Small gold framed mirror and gold filligree purse, hung from the waist on chains. Black ballet slippers and sheer black pantyhose. 50's black velvet hat with ostrich plume attched with big gaudy pin. I got better. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 15:51:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24387 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:51:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Kp2NP012983; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4Kp0xw012187; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12008.mail.yahoo.com (web12008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.216]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA4Kopxw012078 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:50:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021104205045.41524.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.251] by web12008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:50:45 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] e-bay 7-pc beaded gown Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:50:45 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I'm going to have to stick in my two cents worth. I used to sell and do alterations on wedding gowns and the bodice is definitely a wedding gown down to and including the beaded lace appliques. If I recall you could order that one with laces because it was supposed to be "period". The teal is a pretty color but the godets don't seem right, especially for a bustle gown. Thanks for the e-bay numbers to look at the embroidery. I don't do e-bay unless someone posts a link here. "Thou shalt not go to auctions when the septic system needs replaced." (DH) Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 16:17:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24526 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:17:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4LH5NP015864; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4LH1xw027273; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4LGJxw026844 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-19-177.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.19.177] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188oa1-0007m6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:16:17 +0000 Message-ID: <005a01c28447$ea73d780$b11327d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021104.114223.-899209.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: prizewinning victorian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:19:51 -0000 Status: RO Karen wrote: > I'd be a lot more understanding if this was a first effort or an early > effort. But if you follow the link on the page you will see that she is > actually in business making stuff like this and has been for at least a > year. In addition, she actually carries 'Truly Victorian' patterns as > part of her stock so she had access to good design but failed to use it. Indeed; if you look at http://4dw.net/victorianwardrobe/CustomDresses.html on her website, about half way down the page you will find someone modelling a 'Fully beaded bodice and side gored Entertainer Gown w/ matching capelet and hair piece.' which appears to be the same outfit. No reference to winning prizes, or being worth $1800, though. I know that all's fair in love, war and on e-bay, but I really, really, hope that no-one blows their savings on this tawdry mockery of an historic costume. best wishes Stevie > But you are correct that we can't judge her winning of the prize as we > don't know what the rest of the stuff looked like. Yegads, they were > probably even worse! > > Karen > > > > > On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:54:47 -0500 Gail & Scott Finke > writes: > > > > My only comment is that I'm glad I don't have to see what the rest > > of the gowns in the competition looked like! If this is the best of a > lot, > > then good for the seamstress. She's on her way, anyway, and I recall a > > few of us confessing our early works . . . > > > > Gail Finke > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 17:17:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24835 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:17:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4MH2NP023135; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4MH0Rv002617; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4MGDRv002157 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from Tigershadowe@netscape.net by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.ed.60012b5 (16238) for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:15:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from netscape.net (mow-m22.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.138]) by air-in03.mx.aol.com (v89.12) with ESMTP id MAILININ32-1104171558; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:15:58 -0400 From: Tigershadowe@netscape.net (Barbara Corley) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7D1A43DC.113469CD.40982FDE@netscape.net> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Pattern help Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:18:25 -0500 Status: RO Has anyone taken a look at these yet? My mother wants something to wear to Dickens-on-the-Strand next month and she spotted these at Jo-Anns last week. Comments, suggestions, other pattern recommendations welcome. Thanks http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3417=x&TI=10013&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3418=x&TI=10013&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 Barbara Houston, TX __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 17:32:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24986 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:32:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4MV6NP024513; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:31:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4MV1Rv010107; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA4MU4Rv009574 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpNXT8TIK3mMydTgJny/cPkaXVboacDucA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HGS9TKPK; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:29:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help Message-ID: <20021104.162937.-899209.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-14,16-21,24,27-42 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:29:37 -0600 Status: RO I don't know what period 'Dicken-On-The-Strand' is supposed to be, but isn't classic Dickens set pre-1860? Those two patterns are actually very good for late 1890's, say about 1897/98. They are designs from "La Mode Illustree' from 1897. Whoever designed them lifted them almost perfectly from the illustrations. If you want to make something that late, then they are a good choice, if you want something more midcentury, then you should look at the Simplicity Civil War era patterns which I understand are quite good for that period. Karen (feeling very Victorian today for some reason.....) On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:18:25 -0500 Tigershadowe@netscape.net (Barbara Corley) writes: > Has anyone taken a look at these yet? My mother wants something to > wear to Dickens-on-the-Strand next month and she spotted these at > Jo-Anns last week. Comments, suggestions, other pattern > recommendations welcome. Thanks > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3417=x&TI= 10013&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3418=x&TI= 10013&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 > > Barbara > Houston, TX > > __________________________________________________________________ > The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! > http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp > > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at > http://webmail.netscape.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 17:33:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24990 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:33:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4MX3NP024652; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4MX0Rv011189; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4MWQRv010800 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.124.3.142] (p30.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.142]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16844 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:31:10 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7D1A43DC.113469CD.40982FDE@netscape.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:10:01 -0700 Status: RO on 11/4/02 3:18 PM, Barbara Corley at Tigershadowe@netscape.net wrote: > Has anyone taken a look at these yet? My mother wants something to wear to > Dickens-on-the-Strand next month and she spotted these at Jo-Anns last week. > Comments, suggestions, other pattern recommendations welcome. Thanks > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3417=x&TI=10013 > &pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3418=x&TI=10013 > &pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 > These are from the latter half of the century, not from Dickens' period. When I think of Dickens costumes, I think of anything from about 1820 to 1860. Could be earlier than 1820 or later that the book starts, I can't quite recall at the moment, but it ends definitely no later than 1860. Sylvia Rognstad -- Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 18:33:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25166 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:33:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4NX5NP000437; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:33:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4NX0Rv012228; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA4NWWRv011970 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:32:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A390608501B6; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:32:32 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A39090E0284; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:32:32 -0600 Message-ID: <01d101c2845a$672b28c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] New Class Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:32:12 -0500 Status: RO We have a new online class called "Bias Basics: Making a 1930s Inspired Gown" at the Costume Classroom. It will start in early March and is taught by Kim Grant. She is an expert at working with the bias. We do expect this class to book up quickly. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 19:38:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25592 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:38:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA50d4NP012247; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA50d2Rv017061; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f120.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA50c9Rv016675 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:38:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:38:04 -0800 Received: from 208.141.166.35 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:38:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.141.166.35] From: "Elizabeth Clark" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2002 00:38:04.0762 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A7283A0:01C28463] Subject: [h-cost] Re:prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:38:04 -0700 Status: RO Well, it's pretty astounding. Very 1980's Nashville to me. Need's Ms. Parton's bosoms and hair, though, to really set it off. What got me the most were the "gourds" in the skirt. Call me nutty, but if one is going to bandy about dressmaking terms, one should endeavor to spell them in the vicinity of correctly. This is truly an example of Caveat Emptor. But what a fun Monday treat. :-) The very sad thing is that there is obviously a heck of a lot of work and talent being misdirected... all that beading and applique, properly applied to something with historic aesthetic, would go far! (And my first attempt at period sewing was pretty bad, so I know from whence I speak! Still... not THIS level of work.) Elizabeth http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 19:41:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25610 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:41:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA50g1NP012431; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA50g0Rv018162; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA50fXRv017982 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:41:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.178] (pm5-178.eos.net [205.133.149.178]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29267 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:41:31 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021104190007.5742.81865.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: authentic victorian Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 19:39:09 -0500 Status: RO Okay, I take back everything nice I said (or rather, everything not nice that I refrained from saying). I thought that someone else was selling the dress, not the maker, and that the $599 opening bid was the price ($1,200!). Yes, it's obviously a redone wedding gown, I can't believe anyone would sell it as authentically styled. Oh well, no one has bid so maybe the public is not as naive and/or tasteless as we pessimistically assume. I'm sure that it fits some people's idea of a beautiful dress. It's the "authentic" part I object to. If you look at the link, you can see it on a real live person! And you can also see the seller's other (and apparently only) sewing offering, a "saloon dress." Sigh. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 20:21:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25759 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:21:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA51L3NP015517; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA51L1Rv002459; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA51KiRv002319 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from p21-nas13.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.216.149] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 188sOR-0003Ua-00; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:20:39 +1300 Message-ID: <006601c28469$88d92580$95d8adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:20:08 +1300 Status: RO << The very sad thing is that there is obviously a heck of a lot of work and talent being misdirected... all that beading and applique, properly applied to something with historic aesthetic, would go far!>> Yes, and someone wanted to know what was wrong about it? Everything. Take a look at some real garments, it's too much to ask for everything that's wrong with it if you are trying to explain it to someone with little knowelege of the era: 1888 reception gown, this is close to the end of the decade with a chagnce to more gored and fitted skirts, but as you can see quite a way from the skirt of the costume: http://www.antique-fashion.com/2155.htm 1878-1880 reception gown, from the other end of the era and again very different from the costume. http://www.antique-fashion.com/2083.htm 1880 Wedding Dress http://www.antique-fashion.com/0179.htm And now for the more vibrant examples: http://www.vintagetextile.com/newpage60.htm Blue base with floral design, still vastly different. From about the era I think the costume is trying to approximate.* http://www.vintagetextile.com/newpage78.htm Green and cream later 19thC kick up sleeves and vestige of a bustle, but shaping of sleeve is quite different.* http://www.vintagetextile.com/newpage510.htm One of my favs, vibrant black and gold late 1870s dress, just to show how outrageous some dresses could be (and this is not even close to the most outstanding) I have a few photos of Sarah Bernhardt in amazing 1880s costumes that suit the title of the play she wore them for "Frou Frou", but the trims and puffings are nothing like seen on the costume of the title of this email. The lace appliques are very modern looking. The idea of the shoulder cape is right, and there are plenty of examples of ones made of tiers of lace, but the mix of colours and choice of materials and shaping isn't accurate. << Well, it's pretty astounding. Very 1980's Nashville to me. Need's Ms. Parton's bosoms and hair, though, to really set it off.>> My thoughts exactly, and if people like it then it's not my place to comment, but it's certainly not 1880s, entertainer or not;) << going to bandy about dressmaking terms, one should endeavor to spell them in the vicinity of correctly.>> I was thinking compassionately that it might well have been a spell check glitch;) You know when you just click change and not see what a word is being changed to;) <<(And my first attempt at period sewing was pretty bad, so I know from whence I speak! Still... not THIS level of work.)>> Not even my quickie throw together Ever After masque dress is quite in this category;) And I'm certainly not attempting to pass it off as authentic nor for a stupendous amount of dosh. I never really intended it to be an attempt at historical costuming, but have shoved in in that section of my site as it's not really "fantasy" either;) Again, no quibbles with people's first attempts (and this clearly isn't) just poor representation of the facts. michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume * I'm thinking of making a gown in one of these two styles from some funky blue and silvery cream chinese brocade with a feather like pattern. Sinuous pattern like the green gown, teelish blue like the blue gown... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 20:40:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25838 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:40:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA51e5NP016903; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA51e0Rv008631; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA51dVRv008498 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:39:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p21.directcon.net [206.170.184.120]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gA51ctsC012625; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:38:56 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021104174232.0105aec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: [h-cost] New List for Pattern Producers In-Reply-To: <20021029.111614.-173877.4.catpurson@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:42:32 -0800 Status: RO Hi everyone: I've started a new mailing list for those of use who are or want to be in the business of making patterns for sale. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/patternproducers/ to join. Thanks, Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 21:01:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25940 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:01:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5224NP018166; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:02:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5220Rv015349; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA521WRv015224 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.172]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id gA522xl09881 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:03:03 +1100 Message-ID: <048701c2846f$72a5cce0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:02:32 +1100 Status: RO Come to think of it, a few well-placed squashes would stop the skirts blowing up in a strong wind... Being silly today, Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > What got me the most were the "gourds" in the skirt. Call me nutty, but if > one is going to bandy about dressmaking terms, one should endeavor to spell > them in the vicinity of correctly. > > Elizabeth > http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 21:35:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26118 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:35:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA52a3NP020411; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA52a1Rv027026; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13401.mail.yahoo.com (web13401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA52Z4Rv026646 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:35:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021105023503.60628.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.192.133.163] by web13401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 18:35:03 PST From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021104.162937.-899209.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:35:03 -0800 (PST) Status: RO A better choice for Dickens would be some of the patterns from Past Patterns: http://www.pastpatterns.com/1850.html The gathered-front bodice is an attractive look, I think... She's also got an 1830s style dress on another page of the web site. Cheers, Mara __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 21:59:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26286 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:59:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5302NP021853; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5301Rv004182; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f152.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.152]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA52xvRv004120 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:59:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:59:52 -0800 Received: from 169.233.3.149 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 02:59:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [169.233.3.149] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2002 02:59:52.0540 (UTC) FILETIME=[697A69C0:01C28477] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 18:59:52 -0800 Status: RO I would like to add my 2¢ and say that *nodoy* should EVER win a prize for "originality" for buying out the entire section of venise lace appliques in the bridal section of JoAnns. No, really - I recognized at least three of those - and some of that lace in the back comes pre gathered even. How silly! -Laura _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 4 23:45:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26760 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:45:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA54j7NP027614; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:45:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA54j2Rv004688; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA54isRv004588 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:44:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.e6.310d4604 (16633) for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:44:43 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e6.310d4604.2af8a6bb_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:44:43 EST Status: RO --part1_e6.310d4604.2af8a6bb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 9:36:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, corbiegirl@yahoo.com writes: > A better choice for Dickens would be some of the patterns from Past > Patterns: > Yes. The other patterns are too late. I think a Dickens Christmas even should be around 1845 or so....that says "A Christmas Carol". You won't need a hoop then. Just lots of petticoats. And the #708 corset is fantastic! It will work for 1830s too [it's on the 1830s page] and any Dickens period. It's easy to make but doesn't have enough boning for me. I put a bone between each bone marked in the pattern. It has a great shape. I will warn you to make a muslin mock up of the dress first. Sometimes Past Patterns do not fit well for the size indicated. But the basic shapes are correct so make it up in muslin 1st and fit it, then make the corrected pattern up in the real fabric. --part1_e6.310d4604.2af8a6bb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/4/2002 9:36:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, corbiegirl@yahoo.com writes:


A better choice for Dickens would be some of the patterns from Past
Patterns:


Yes. The other patterns are too late. I think a Dickens Christmas even should be around 1845 or so....that says "A Christmas Carol". You won't need a hoop then. Just lots of petticoats.
And the #708 corset is fantastic! It will work for 1830s too [it's on the 1830s page] and any Dickens period. It's easy to make but doesn't have enough boning for me. I put a bone between each bone marked in the pattern. It has a great shape.

I will warn you to make a muslin mock up of the dress first. Sometimes Past Patterns do not fit well for the size indicated. But the basic shapes are correct so make it up in muslin 1st and fit it, then make the corrected pattern up in the real fabric. --part1_e6.310d4604.2af8a6bb_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 00:30:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26866 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:30:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55V5NP000109; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:31:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55V1Rv017114; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55UhRv017020 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:30:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from Tigershadowe@netscape.net by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1b1.2d7fdc6 (16213) for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:30:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from netscape.net (mow-m13.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.129]) by air-in01.mx.aol.com (v89.12) with ESMTP id MAILININ11-1105003035; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:30:35 -0500 From: Tigershadowe@netscape.net (Barbara Corley) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <74706C03.2F741931.40982FDE@netscape.net> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:30:58 -0500 Status: RO Thanks everyone. I had a feeling they were the wrong time period. Barbara Houston, TX __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 00:38:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26896 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:38:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55d2NP000463; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55d1Rv019099; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55cMRv018935 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:38:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.85]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H53004DZ8ZXG7@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:38:21 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: prizewinning victorian In-reply-to: <187.108e3818.2af8148e@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021104210840.00ca4860@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:11:03 -0800 Status: RO >>and I recall a few of us >>confessing our early works . . . > >Yes, mine was truly awful--a LOT worse than this, but I didn't try to sell >it for almost $2000, either. I keep my first SCA costume, and have been known to show it to people on occasion. I've come a long way from my 1971 polyester poplin Albrecht Durer. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 00:38:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26898 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:38:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55dBNP000474; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:39:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55dARv019147; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55cMRx018935 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:38:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.85]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H53004DZ8ZXG7@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:38:22 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: authentic victorian In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021104211344.04ef3bc0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20021104190007.5742.81865.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:16:10 -0800 Status: RO >Okay, I take back everything nice I said (or rather, everything not nice >that I refrained from saying). I thought that someone else was selling the >dress, not the maker, and that the $599 opening bid was the price ($1,200!). > >Yes, it's obviously a redone wedding gown, I can't believe anyone would sell >it as authentically styled. Oh well, no one has bid so maybe the public is >not as naive and/or tasteless as we pessimistically assume. I'm sure that it >fits some people's idea of a beautiful dress. It's the "authentic" part I >object to. If you look at the link, you can see it on a real live person! >And you can also see the seller's other (and apparently only) sewing >offering, a "saloon dress." Sigh. The perverse side of me spent several minutes looking for dates on the event, so I could maybe go there next year and see it. I'd wear something I had made, of course. As it happens, I attended second grade in Tombstone, and rode by their Boot Hill twice every week day. (How long ago was that? The bus driver was very fond of Perry Como on the radio.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 00:38:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26902 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:38:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55dENP000490; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:39:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55dERv019170; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:39:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55cNRv018947 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:38:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.85]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H53004DZ8ZXG7@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:38:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality In-reply-to: <048701c2846f$72a5cce0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021104211726.04f19990@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:36:25 -0800 Status: RO >Come to think of it, a few well-placed squashes would stop the skirts >blowing up in a strong wind... Thrown? Oops - I'm being mean. > > What got me the most were the "gourds" in the skirt. Call me nutty, but >if > > one is going to bandy about dressmaking terms, one should endeavor to >spell > > them in the vicinity of correctly. > > > > Elizabeth > > http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 00:38:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26908 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:38:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55dINP000503; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55dHRv019196; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:39:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA55cNRx018947 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:38:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.85]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H53004DZ8ZXG7@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:38:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] period embroidery In-reply-to: <20021104151752.96371.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021104212107.04d2ef00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:38:18 -0800 Status: RO >Finally a 1896 blouse with >those lovely huge sleeves. What would they have used >for sleeve supports I wonder? First, the sleeves were lined with a close-fitting lining, which keeps the puffy part from sliding down the arm and off the hand. Second, the sleeves themselves were hollow, and would have kept in shape by the stiffness of the material, by itself or by being starched. There is a contemporary picture of a gentleman discreetly reaching into a lady's jacket sleeve to re-poof it, and there's a Charles Dana Gibson illustration called something like 'The Story of a Sleeve', where the two newlyweds are sitting a decent distance apart when the porter arrives at their room with their steamer trunk, but one of the bride's sleeves, the one on her new husband's side, is flattened. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 01:53:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27105 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 01:53:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA56s3NP003548; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA56s0Rv007689; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA56r7Rv007456 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021105065302.WVCL29857.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:53:02 +0000 Message-ID: <003301c28497$fbca4320$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021104212107.04d2ef00@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] period embroidery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:53:01 -0800 Status: RO They also used sleeve supports, which could be down-stuffed "pillows" or little hoops worn around the arm. There are pictures of these in the book from last year's "Extreme Beauty" exhibit at the Met. On the one 1890's that I've made so far, I actually stuffed the sleeve with pillow stuffing! - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] period embroidery > > >Finally a 1896 blouse with > >those lovely huge sleeves. What would they have used > >for sleeve supports I wonder? > > First, the sleeves were lined with a close-fitting lining, which keeps the > puffy part from sliding down the arm and off the hand. Second, the sleeves > themselves were hollow, and would have kept in shape by the stiffness of > the material, by itself or by being starched. There is a contemporary > picture of a gentleman discreetly reaching into a lady's jacket sleeve to > re-poof it, and there's a Charles Dana Gibson illustration called something > like 'The Story of a Sleeve', where the two newlyweds are sitting a decent > distance apart when the porter arrives at their room with their steamer > trunk, but one of the bride's sleeves, the one on her new husband's side, > is flattened. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 04:08:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA19922 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 04:08:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5994NP008793; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 02:09:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5991Rv007790; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 02:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA598gRv007693 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 02:08:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id BAA14882 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 01:30:07 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211050930.BAA14882@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] period embroidery Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 01:30:07 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Kayta wrote: > >Finally a 1896 blouse with > >those lovely huge sleeves. What would they have used > >for sleeve supports I wonder? > > First, the sleeves were lined with a close-fitting lining, which keeps the > puffy part from sliding down the arm and off the hand. Second, the sleeves > themselves were hollow, and would have kept in shape by the stiffness of > the material, by itself or by being starched. There is a contemporary > picture of a gentleman discreetly reaching into a lady's jacket sleeve to > re-poof it, and there's a Charles Dana Gibson illustration called something > like 'The Story of a Sleeve', where the two newlyweds are sitting a decent > distance apart when the porter arrives at their room with their steamer > trunk, but one of the bride's sleeves, the one on her new husband's side, > is flattened. I'll agree that if the shirtwaist was cotton or linen, simple starching will keep it big. In the 1980s, I had a cotton shirt made on an 1890s pattern that I occasionally wore with New Romantic clothes. The sleeve was made all in one piece (no liner) and it still stayed up if I used enough starch during ironing. [gods, I'm glad I don't have photos of some of the things I wore during my transition between punk and new romantic/goth...] --Lee _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 06:07:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15205 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:07:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5B78NP012836; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 04:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5B70U0001203; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 04:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5B6OU0001103 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 04:06:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA83520533 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:06:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip101.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.101]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A36E20243 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:06:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00eb01c284bb$20e58a20$65604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <006601c28469$88d92580$95d8adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:04:34 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" > http://www.vintagetextile.com/newpage78.htm > Green and cream later 19thC kick up sleeves and vestige of a bustle, but > shaping of sleeve is quite different.* > These are all gorgeous, but the green and cream one is just to die for. What an utterly exquisite dress. THIS I would pay $1800 for!! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 07:25:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15544 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:25:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5CQ3NP015166; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5CQ0U0017981; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5CPrU0017940 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-8-126.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.8.126] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1892mH-0002WJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:25:53 +0000 Message-ID: <002c01c284c6$fcb66c80$7e0827d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] E-bay HAND PAINTED EDWARDIAN GAUZE & LACE FAN Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:29:29 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, This seems rather pretty, but I know zilch about fans. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=728573733&rd=1 Any observations on dating and usage? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 07:40:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15600 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:40:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Ce1NP015762; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Ce1U0021084; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Cd8U0020914 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:39:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.104] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AB2C116D0338; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 07:35:56 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c284c8$ad9a6e60$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <7D1A43DC.113469CD.40982FDE@netscape.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:41:34 -0500 Status: RO I bought the first pattern just as something to compare with examples in my collection. To begin, this [even if it was correct] would not be the right period for a Dickens event. It is turn of the 20th century. The other pattern is trying to be late 19th century.. The other problem s begin with the buttons up the back. These bodices always are closed in front , or on the right side. One of the joys of shirtwaists was the fact you didn't need a maid to get dressed. Kathleen. > Has anyone taken a look at these yet? My mother wants something to wear to Dickens-on-the-Strand next month and she spotted these at Jo-Anns last week. Comments, suggestions, other pattern recommendations welcome. Thanks > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3417=x&TI=100 13&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3418=x&TI=100 13&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 > > Barbara > Houston, TX > > __________________________________________________________________ > The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp > > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 08:02:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15681 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:02:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5D32NP016680; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5D31U0026399; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5D2oU0026353 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:02:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-8-126.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.8.126] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1893M1-0003L4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:02:49 +0000 Message-ID: <003801c284cc$25f679a0$7e0827d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:06:26 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, Well, one of you may have the pocket to pay $105 per yard:-) http://www.stardustfabrics.com/html/112.htm best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 08:13:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15766 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:13:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5DE2NP017018; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5DE1U0029020; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mrburns.nildram.co.uk (mrburns.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5DDwU0029008 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (bart.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.97]) by mrburns.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A8061E1EC6; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:13:55 +0000 (GMT) To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet From: Cc: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) User-Agent: NOCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20021105131355.0A8061E1EC6@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:13:54 GMT Status: RO Stevie Gamble wrote : > Hi all, > > Well, one of you may have the pocket to pay $105 per yard:-) > > > http://www.stardustfabrics.com/html/112.htm And it *can* be bought by the quarter-yard. Accessories rather than clothing, unless you're *very* small, of course. (About £17.... hmm, if I could think of something to do with it, that *is* possible) What do people make of the pattern? What period would that be right for? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 08:53:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16027 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:53:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5DsGNP018761; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:54:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5DsGU0009212; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:54:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.derby.ac.uk (mail2.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5DqNU0008681 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail2.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gA5DpEm11486.; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:51:14 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:52:21 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gA5DqNU0008681 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:52:03 +0000 Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >When I think of Dickens costumes, I think of anything from about 1820 to >1860. Could be earlier than 1820 or later that the book starts, I can't >quite recall at the moment, but it ends definitely no later than 1860. Dickens was writing from the late 1830s to his death in 1870, though many of his non-historical novels are set at vaguely defined periods in the earlier part of the century. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 08:54:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16033 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:54:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Ds1NP018754; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Ds0U0009122; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5DrsU0009098 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:53:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.100.24.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.100.24] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18949R-0005MU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 05:53:53 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021105084505.00b0a970@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help In-Reply-To: <20021105044501.4669.84152.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 08:53:38 -0500 Status: RO At 09:45 PM 11/4/2002 -0700, Karen responded to Barbara's request for help: >>http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3417=x&TI=10013&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 >Those two patterns are actually very good for late 1890's, say about 1897/98. >They are designs from "La Mode Illustree' from 1897. Whoever designed >them lifted them almost perfectly from the illustrations. I purchased the blouse pattern a couple of months ago because I liked the look, not too worried about how accurate it would be for what time (I was considering adapting it for mundane use ). I have it currently cut out of a lightweight black wool (sold to me as a challis, but really more of a crepe) but have not yet sewn it up. One thing I noted about the pattern is that the puff on the upper sleeve is done by an undersleeve lining (I think Butterick calls it a "stay")... which means that if your fabric isn't crisp, the puff will droop -- and it will be a problem to iron. At the "Extreme Beauty" exhibit (and in the catalog), I saw a number of boned "sleeve stays" that tied to the corset cover/chemisette/camisole (depending on the era?), and I'm looking towards the idea of using sleeve stays instead of the indicated, umm, lining. While I'm not concerned about authenticity for a blouse I intend to wear primarily mundanely, I'm wondering what would have been the accurate period construction? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 09:15:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16170 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:15:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5EG1NP019765; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5EG0U0014833; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5ED3U0013962 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1a7.b6a0070 (30970) for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:12:51 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a7.b6a0070.2af92be3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a7.b6a0070.2af92be3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:12:51 EST Status: RO --part1_1a7.b6a0070.2af92be3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/2002 8:53:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, webwarren@earthlink.net writes: > I'm > wondering what would have been the accurate period construction? > Flat lining the fashion fabric with something that was stuff would do the trick. It could be organdy or even a coarse, stiff linen. If I were making it today I might choose silk organdy if the designer insisted on something period inside the sleeve but a better, and cheeper choice would be some light but uncrushable synthetic. I'd check out the drapery sheer department.... --part1_1a7.b6a0070.2af92be3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/2002 8:53:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, webwarren@earthlink.net writes:


I'm
wondering what would have been the accurate period construction?


Flat lining the fashion fabric with something that was stuff would do the trick. It could be organdy or even a coarse, stiff linen. If I were making it today I might choose silk organdy if the designer insisted on something period inside the sleeve but a better, and cheeper choice would be some light but uncrushable synthetic. I'd check out the drapery sheer department.... --part1_1a7.b6a0070.2af92be3_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 09:16:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16174 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:16:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5EH1NP019810; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5EH1U0015107; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from NOAADC-MSW03.NOA.Alcoa.com (noaadc-msw03.noa.alcoa.com [147.154.9.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5EGoU0015035 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from NOAADC-MXI02.NOA.Alcoa.com (unverified) by NOAADC-MSW03.NOA.Alcoa.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:16:37 -0500 Received: by NOAADC-MXI02.NOA.Alcoa.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:16:37 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] Late Renaissance Florence exhibit in Chicago Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:16:25 -0500 Status: RO To bring you an update, the local (Davenport, IA) paper had another little write up about the exhibit on Sunday. Just wanted you to know that our friend, Eleanora of Toledo and her son , Giovanni (by Bronzino) will be there. The article was accompanied by a nearly 3x5" very good, color photo. I am so excited about getting an opportunity to see this painting! The last time I was at the Art Institute (early 90's), they didn't allow cameras; this time I will take a small one and ask again. I've a little talent in art and sewing, but I can't draw doodles compared to this. It's humbling just to see this work in a photo, it may be overload to see this and other exquisite pieces "in person". Good thing my daughter is going with me, she can drag me out of the way so others can see the items. Connie E. Fairchild _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 10:58:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17196 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:58:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5FrSNP027012; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:53:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5FrPU0023001; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:53:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA5FcuU0016090 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:38:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021105153856.36496.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:38:56 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021105131355.0A8061E1EC6@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:38:56 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > Stevie Gamble wrote : > > > Hi all, > > > > Well, one of you may have the pocket to pay $105 per yard:-) > > > > > > http://www.stardustfabrics.com/html/112.htm > > And it *can* be bought by the quarter-yard. Accessories rather than clothing, > unless you're *very* small, of course. > > (About £17.... hmm, if I could think of something to do with it, that *is* > possible) > > What do people make of the pattern? What period would that be right for? No period other than the late 20th & early 21st centuries is my guess. :-) But it's pretty, if I were slimmer I could go for a dress like the ones on the page. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 11:15:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17294 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:15:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5GFANP029353; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:15:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5GF9U0004742; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:15:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5GEcU0004404 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:14:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip171.164-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.164.171]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gA5GEU220239 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:14:31 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet Message-ID: <3DC77D1D.22883.227CD051@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021105131355.0A8061E1EC6@mrburns.nildram.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 08:11:09 -0800 Status: RO > Stevie Gamble wrote : > > > Hi all, > > > > Well, one of you may have the pocket to pay $105 per yard:-) > > > > > > http://www.stardustfabrics.com/html/112.htm I have some silk cut velvet very similar to this (only burgundy and different pattern) but it is important to look at the drape of the stuff on the ladies wearing dresses made from it. It is not a firmly woven fabric. It has a *lot* of drape. That means that you need to practically quilt it to a backing fabric to use for historic clothing prior to the 20th C. The pattern is difficult to see since we have only a part of the overall pattern (grrrr) but it looks like one of the 16th C Italian asymmetricals. Depending on the actual size of the design it could be from between late 15th/early 16th C and late 16th/early 17th. (The smaller designs were more late.) So, it could be used (if stabilized) for early 16th C or late 16th/early 17th C in England, France, Spain, Italy, etc. (Anywhere they were using Italian brocades and velvets.) For a similar velvet design see Colorplate 67 in _The Development of Italian Textile Design from the 12th to the 18th Century_ by Antonino Santangelo. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 11:25:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17334 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:25:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5GP2NP000672; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5GP1U0010078; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA5GO7U0009543 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VClL4yjebhGqyTBOBqyaw8vmITRH7pZ/vyg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HGU7AP6T; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 11:23:42 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet Message-ID: <20021105.102310.-334313.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-9 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:23:10 -0600 Status: RO One important thing to notice about this fabric is the fact that it's a 'burn-out sheer'. You'd definitely have to line it with something and then you'd always be fighting against the sheerness. I'd say that for the price (and esp. with the doubtful authenticity of the design anyway) you'd be better off putting your money into something with less silk and more substance. As far as I know, there are no clothing styles before the 20th century which would work with a part velvet/part sheer fabric. Just my groats worth, Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 11:38:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17413 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:38:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Gd1NP002176; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Gd0U0017592; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5GcOU0017163 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:38:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.17e.11599713 (4426) for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:37:45 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <17e.11599713.2af94dd9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_17e.11599713.2af94dd9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:37:45 EST Status: RO --part1_17e.11599713.2af94dd9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/2002 11:25:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: > As far as I know, there are no clothing styles before the > 20th century which would work with a part velvet/part sheer fabric. > Yes, even though the design seems Renn. inspired. And it is beautiful. I'd make a 30's evening gown out if it....with a shiny satin slip. Ooooo.... --part1_17e.11599713.2af94dd9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/2002 11:25:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes:


As far as I know, there are no clothing styles before the
20th century which would work with a part velvet/part sheer fabric.


Yes, even though the design seems Renn. inspired. And it is beautiful.

I'd make a 30's evening gown out if it....with a shiny satin slip. Ooooo.... --part1_17e.11599713.2af94dd9_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 12:51:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17896 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:51:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Hp3NP009925; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Hp1U0028706; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA5HomU0028559 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:50:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VClL4yjebhGqyC7fyH7JkV/AvWajj/BZB2w=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HGVB8N9H; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:49:58 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Renaissance Florence exhibit in Chicago Message-ID: <20021105.114825.-334313.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-37 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:48:24 -0600 Status: RO Hey! If folks are coming to Chicago for the exhibit, let me know! I'd love to meet more folks from h-cost! Although I believe we've already met, haven't we Connie? Karen On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:16:25 -0500 "Fairchild, Connie E." writes: > To bring you an update, the local (Davenport, IA) paper had another > little > write up about the exhibit on Sunday. Just wanted you to know that > our > friend, Eleanora of Toledo and her son , Giovanni (by Bronzino) will > be > there. The article was accompanied by a nearly 3x5" very good, color > photo. > I am so excited about getting an opportunity to see this painting! > The last > time I was at the Art Institute (early 90's), they didn't allow > cameras; > this time I will take a small one and ask again. I've a little > talent in art > and sewing, but I can't draw doodles compared to this. It's humbling > just to > see this work in a photo, it may be overload to see this and other > exquisite > pieces "in person". Good thing my daughter is going with me, she > can drag > me out of the way so others can see the items. > > Connie E. Fairchild > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 12:59:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17930 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:59:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Hx3NP010659; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Hx1U0003346; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail1.mackie.com [12.144.237.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5HwuU0003276 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:58:57 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Source for Italian silks - 13th, 14th and 15th centuries Thread-Index: AcKE9GGZRJFyPQDnSR28aMHWEYqrog== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gA5HwuU0003276 Subject: [h-cost] Source for Italian silks - 13th, 14th and 15th centuries Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:54:25 -0800 Status: RO Hi all, I just found a new source (okay - it may be old to some of you) on Italian silks in the 13th, 14th and 15th centuries. Italienische Seidengewebe des 13, 14 und 15 Jahrhunderts by Brigitte Tietzel copyright 1984, Koln, Deutsches Textilmuseum Kataloge des Deutchses Textilmuseum, Krefeld Band 1. First off, it is in German - but don't let that stop you. It has pictures of 161 extant examples of Italian silks dating from the 13th, 14th and 15th centuries, as well as construction details such as the warp and weft counts and colors, commentary and measurements. Only a few of the pictures are in color, but the black and whites aren't bad. The copy that I borrowed via ILL was from the Smithsonian Libraries, so it was for in library use only. I don't need this one for the current project (1350-1365 Florentine lady's outfit), but boy, I can tell it will come in handy for the future. Best regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 14:30:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18381 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:30:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5JTHNP019277; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:29:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5JTDU0023634; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5JSvU0023417 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:28:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.30.30239808 (18251) for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:28:47 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <30.30239808.2af975ee@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nov. Online Costume Classes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_30.30239808.2af975ee_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:28:46 EST Status: RO --part1_30.30239808.2af975ee_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/3/02 9:55:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: > We have three classes starting at the Costume Classroom > www.costumeclassroom.com this week: > > ***Making an Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe: Elizabethan Gown (this is made > with Margo's pattern) > ***A Victorian Lady: Make Your Own Bustle Era Skirt > ***Costume Analysis of Four Films Set in 1912-1914 > > We still have open slots for students in each class. > > Penny, I realize this is kind of a stupid question, but do you list the classes on the website, or anyplace for that matter, a couple weeks before they start? I am always interested in taking classes, but find that they have generally already started. Kit --part1_30.30239808.2af975ee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/3/02 9:55:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes:


We have three classes starting at the Costume Classroom
www.costumeclassroom.com  this week:

***Making an Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe: Elizabethan Gown (this is made
with Margo's pattern)
***A Victorian Lady: Make Your Own Bustle Era Skirt
***Costume Analysis of Four Films Set in 1912-1914

We still have open slots for students in each class.

Penny,

I realize this is kind of a stupid question, but do you list the classes on the website, or anyplace for that matter, a couple weeks before they start?  I am always interested in taking classes, but find that they have generally already started.

Kit --part1_30.30239808.2af975ee_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 14:51:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18525 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:51:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Jp3NP021430; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Jp0U0005858; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from NOAADC-MSW03.NOA.Alcoa.com (noaadc-msw03.noa.alcoa.com [147.154.9.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5JoiU0005683 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:50:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from NOAADC-MXI02.NOA.Alcoa.com (unverified) by NOAADC-MSW03.NOA.Alcoa.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:50:38 -0500 Received: by NOAADC-MXI02.NOA.Alcoa.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:50:38 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] Late Renaissance Florence exhibit in Chicago Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:50:30 -0500 Status: RO Are you in the Illinois Civil War Group? Only by email then. Are you going on 11/20? Connie E. Fairchild ----- Message: 4 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:48:24 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Renaissance Florence exhibit in Chicago From: seamstrix@juno.com Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Hey! If folks are coming to Chicago for the exhibit, let me know! I'd love to meet more folks from h-cost! Although I believe we've already met, haven't we Connie? Karen On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:16:25 -0500 "Fairchild, Connie E." writes: > To bring you an update, the local (Davenport, IA) paper had another > little > write up about the exhibit on Sunday. Just wanted you to know that > our > friend, Eleanora of Toledo and her son , Giovanni (by Bronzino) will _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 14:55:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18542 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:55:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Jt3NP021865; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Jt2U0008035; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5JsKU0007607 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:54:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.ba.2f242de0 (18251) for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:53:55 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ba.2f242de0.2af97bd2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:53:54 EST Status: RO --part1_ba.2f242de0.2af97bd2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/02 5:02:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes: > Hi all, > > Well, one of you may have the pocket to pay $105 per yard:-) > > > http://www.stardustfabrics.com/html/112.htm > I immediately though about whether I could remove the sheer from the pattern. (Think peirce-work or filigree for metal) It would make great applique. Of course, the pattern doesn't seem to be correct, but I just thought I would tell you want I thought of. Kit --part1_ba.2f242de0.2af97bd2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/02 5:02:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes:


Hi all,

Well, one of you may have the pocket to pay $105 per yard:-)


http://www.stardustfabrics.com/html/112.htm


I immediately though about whether I could remove the sheer from the pattern.  (Think peirce-work or filigree for metal) It would make great applique.  Of course, the pattern doesn't seem to be correct, but I just thought I would tell you want I thought of.

Kit --part1_ba.2f242de0.2af97bd2_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 15:36:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18783 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:36:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Ka9NP025962; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:36:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Ka5U0000613; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5KZkU0000420 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:35:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gA5Kbg018676.; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:37:42 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:35:18 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Efforts, was: prizewinning victorian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gA5KZkU0000420 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:34:39 +0000 Status: RO Margo wrote: >1977: "Elizabethan Court Dress", pale yellow lightweight satin, with black >velvet accents and gold sequin embellished braid. Heavily darted bodice >worn over 50's Merry Widow, becasue I'd read that they wore corsets. >18th century style ladder of bows up the front of the bodice, further >embellished with swags of gold chain and filligree bits. Huge mahoitered >sleeves, with the upper puffs smocked with gold beads, and the lower >portions fastened with zippers. Back of the bodice fastened with hooks >and eyes, and had ribbons tacked on in a crisscross pattern to make it >look like it laced! Forepart of black velvet latticed with cotton lace that I >spray painted gold, and rossettes of those plastic faceted beads that >crafter grandmas use. >At first I wore this with no petticoats at all, for fear of looking fat. >Later I figured out I should have a hoop, and made one out of wire that >buckled and flooped into weird parabola shapes when I wore it. >"Standing" ruff of black lace, that wouldn't stand, so it flopped down my >back. Small gold framed mirror and gold filligree purse, hung from the waist >on chains. Black ballet slippers and sheer black pantyhose. 50's black >velvet hat with ostrich plume attched with big gaudy pin. >I got better. What a wonderful image, Margo! My two penn'orth; (male) "Cavalier" outfit, circa 1970 - Nylon lace-trimmed blouse with the lace transferred from the front to the edges of a wide collar and to my boot-tops. Polyester jacket trimmed with black-and-gold braid. Modern stretch trousers and fashion boots, which already had imitation spur-leathers, topped with the aforementioned lace. Polyester sash, and a beige felt hat of an approximately suitable shape. Those Victorian illustrators of "Cavaliers and Roundheads" had a lot to answer for. It took a while for people to realise that Royalist private soldiers would not have worn lace, braid or sashes. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 15:45:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18826 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:45:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Kj7NP026813; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:45:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Kj5U0005476; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:45:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5KiaU0005153 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:44:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.225]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BCA015EEF94 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:44:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002601c2850c$41dd0220$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <127.198b1c4d.2af1c25d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th. century dress supports. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28514.A35E94C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:45:20 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28514.A35E94C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Albertcat. I quite forgot to reply you for the wonderfull pictures you sended me = with the collapsible hip paniers. They were beautifully made, i enjoyed them very much. May i ask you if you used doubble casings with hoop wire? Or is it only the striped fabric that tricked my eyes? I think it would be a very good idea to make doubble layers of crinoline = steels in the hoops, i dont mean 2 steels in each slit, but paralel = slits. The dress you draped over was very beautifull two. thanks for sending me the pictures. Bjarne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AlbertCat@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th. century dress supports. In a message dated 10/30/2002 12:10:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, = drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:=20 In Dangerous Liasions, Glen Close is wearing such a collapsible = panier=20 frame, so i think it is autentic to use it.=20 Having worked with James Acheson, the designer of "DL", on "Last of = the Mohicans", the cage version of panniers is probably supported by = research. He made us show him some kind of research for any garments we = made on "Mohicans".=20 Later, I made up a pair in a cage version but just used the dimensions = found in the pair in Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines. They work better if = you use narrow tapes. I used 3 double rows of commercial hoop wire = encased in striped linen and 1/2" twill tape [but I'd use narrower if I = were you]. I cut the hoop casings long...leaving unhooped sections a = both ends with the wires centered in each. Then, while flat, I pinned = the tapes to them, one in the middle [use this as your fixed starting = point with the hoops at a right angle to the tape], one at each end of = the hoops [they get shorter as you go up y'know], and one in-between = these, at what looked like the correct angles. Then I put a 3/4" = grosgrain tape on the dummy's waist and pinned the tapes in place. Then = bring the ends of the casings around so the hoops bow out and pin in = place. You can then adjust the lengths and angles of the tapes, even = them up [so they're the same on both sides], take the grosgrain off the = waist ! and sew it all up. TAH DAH!=20 Mine close with a buckle CF and I made a small sausage pad that I = tacked to the back between the 2 side hoops.=20 Have fun!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28514.A35E94C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Albertcat.
I quite forgot to reply you for the = wonderfull=20 pictures you sended me with the collapsible hip paniers.
They were beautifully made, i enjoyed = them very=20 much.
May i ask you if you used doubble = casings with hoop=20 wire?
Or is it only the striped fabric that = tricked my=20 eyes?
I think it would be a very good idea to = make=20 doubble layers of crinoline steels in the hoops, i dont mean 2 steels in = each=20 slit, but paralel slits.
The dress you draped over was very = beautifull=20 two.
thanks for sending me the = pictures.
 
Bjarne
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 AlbertCat@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, = 2002 12:16=20 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th. = century dress=20 supports.

In a = message dated=20 10/30/2002 12:10:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk = writes:=20


In Dangerous Liasions, Glen Close is wearing such a = collapsible=20 panier
frame, so i think it is autentic to use it. =


Having worked with James = Acheson, the=20 designer of "DL", on "Last of the Mohicans", the cage version of = panniers is=20 probably supported by research. He made us show him some kind of = research for=20 any garments we made on "Mohicans".

Later, I made up a pair in = a cage=20 version but just used the dimensions found in the pair in Waugh's = Corsets and=20 Crinolines. They work better if you use narrow tapes. I used 3 double = rows of=20 commercial hoop wire encased in striped linen and 1/2" twill tape [but = I'd use=20 narrower if I were you]. I cut the hoop casings long...leaving = unhooped=20 sections a both ends with the wires centered in each. Then, while = flat, I=20 pinned the tapes to them, one in the middle [use this as your fixed = starting=20 point with the hoops at a right angle to the tape], one at each end of = the=20 hoops [they get shorter as you go up y'know], and one in-between = these, at=20 what looked like the correct angles. Then I put a 3/4" grosgrain tape = on the=20 dummy's waist and pinned the tapes in place. Then bring the ends of = the=20 casings around so the hoops bow out and pin in place. You can then = adjust the=20 lengths and angles of the tapes, even them up [so they're the same on = both=20 sides], take the grosgrain off the waist ! and sew it all up. TAH DAH! =

Mine close with a buckle CF and I made a small sausage pad = that I=20 tacked to the back between the 2 side hoops.

Have fun!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28514.A35E94C0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 16:42:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19182 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:42:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Lg2NP002655; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Lg0FU007049; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5LfZFU006711 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:41:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from AngelaFLazear (adsl-63-202-198-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.198.62]) by pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id gA5LfXQ2211736 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:41:34 -0500 Message-ID: <01f701c28514$1ae30180$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "Angela Lazear-CRC" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20021104211726.04f19990@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:41:30 -0800 Status: RO Maybe the original design called for actual gourds? They would have gone with the black & yellow color scheme. Kinda squishy when ya sit down, but.... Not my cup o' tea, that dress. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:prizewinner for "Historical accuracy and originality > > >Come to think of it, a few well-placed squashes would stop the skirts > >blowing up in a strong wind... > > Thrown? Oops - I'm being mean. > > > > What got me the most were the "gourds" in the skirt. Call me nutty, but > >if > > > one is going to bandy about dressmaking terms, one should endeavor to > >spell > > > them in the vicinity of correctly. > > > > > > Elizabeth > > > http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 17:02:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19329 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:02:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Lv4NP004048; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Lv1FU014912; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA5LucFU014648 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:56:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VClL4yjebhGqyzyWhyQkSsp8lEX+WHi196w=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HGVSBPD9; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:56:17 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Renaissance Florence exhibit in Chicago Message-ID: <20021105.155512.-899209.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,8-12 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:55:11 -0600 Status: RO Ah, we are e-pals only then. I will be in full Elizabethan garb dancing there on the 19th. Karen On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:50:30 -0500 "Fairchild, Connie E." writes: > Are you in the Illinois Civil War Group? Only by email then. Are > you going > on 11/20? > > Connie E. Fairchild ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 17:07:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19350 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:07:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5M72NP005010; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5M70FU020249; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5M6WFU019936 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:06:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.3d.27231386 (4340) for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:06:12 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <3d.27231386.2af99ad4@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th. century dress supports. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_3d.27231386.2af99ad4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:06:12 EST Status: RO --part1_3d.27231386.2af99ad4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/2002 3:51:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > May i ask you if you used doubble casings with hoop wire? > Yes [how does one say "yes" in....what's your 1st language, Danish?] I'm not sure exactly why. I can't remember. It may be just to show off the striped fabric more. I did not make the dress [which is beautiful]. It was made by a friend of mine who is now deceased, Michael Nations. It was a little project he did for his own education. He followed a Janet Arnold pattern as closely as possible and all top stitching and hemming is done by hand. The gown is cut from scraps left over from a mockup made for Madeline Stowe's fancy yellow silk dress she's 1st seen in in "Last of the Mohicans". Annie Hadley, the shop super, liked to have mock ups made in a fabric instead of muslin. That meant that an extra could wear the mock up in the film. Michael carefully and cleverly cut his dress from the scraps. As a result there is no hem or seam allowances to let out [everything is faced with linen], the skirts are set onto the bodice in a wider gap than in the pattern and the skirt is skimpy....only a little over a yard and a half. We dressed a dark black girl in it [sans panniers] with the same petticoat, a chemise and a turbin-like head rag for her role as a colonial slave is some play the local theatre was doing. She looked GREAT! Her dark skin next to the pale fabrics and the elegant but skimpy cut all came together to work really well. A great character costume. I suppose the list doesn't know what we're talking about. I've deleted the ZIP file [by accident] I sent you. You can send it out to anyone you want. I've still got all the photo's I took and could zip up the best ones again I guess. Too bad I can't just send an attachment to the list. --part1_3d.27231386.2af99ad4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/2002 3:51:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


May i ask you if you used doubble casings with hoop wire?


Yes [how does one say "yes" in....what's your 1st language, Danish?]

I'm not sure exactly why. I can't remember. It may be just to show off the striped fabric more.

I did not make the dress [which is beautiful]. It was made by a friend of mine who is now deceased, Michael Nations. It was a little project he did for his own education. He followed a Janet Arnold pattern as closely as possible and all top stitching and hemming is done by hand. The gown is cut from scraps left over from a mockup made for Madeline Stowe's fancy yellow silk dress she's 1st seen in in "Last of the Mohicans". Annie Hadley, the shop super, liked to have mock ups made in a fabric instead of muslin. That meant that an extra could wear the mock up in the film. Michael carefully and cleverly cut his dress from the scraps. As a result there is no hem or seam allowances to let out [everything is faced with linen], the skirts are set onto the bodice in a wider gap than in the pattern and the skirt is skimpy....only a little over a yard and a half.
We dressed a dark black girl in it [sans panniers] with the same petticoat, a chemise and a turbin-like head rag for her role as a colonial slave is some play the local theatre was doing. She looked GREAT! Her dark skin next to the pale fabrics and the elegant but skimpy cut all came together to work really well. A great character costume.

I suppose the list doesn't know what we're talking about. I've deleted the ZIP file [by accident] I sent you. You can send it out to anyone you want. I've still got all the photo's I took and could zip up the best ones again I guess. Too bad I can't just send an attachment to the list. --part1_3d.27231386.2af99ad4_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 17:58:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19747 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:58:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Mw4NP009829; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:58:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Mw0FU018799; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5MuwFU018182 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.110] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id ABF917820332; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:53:45 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c2851e$faef6020$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021105084505.00b0a970@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:59:21 -0500 Status: RO The illustrations on the envelopes may be from La Mode, but the pattern shapes have been greatly modified to reflect modern shape and construction. The first one omits the fitted inner construction that is needed for the pouf drape that is usually found in the mode of that time. Also, in a previous comment , I stated that this blouse opened on the right; I meant the LEFT. I am direction challenged. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Bell" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern help > At 09:45 PM 11/4/2002 -0700, Karen responded to Barbara's request for help: > > > > > >>http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.3417=x&TI=1 0013&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20315132 > > > >Those two patterns are actually very good for late 1890's, say about 1897/98. > >They are designs from "La Mode Illustree' from 1897. Whoever designed > >them lifted them almost perfectly from the illustrations. > > I purchased the blouse pattern a couple of months ago because I liked the > look, not too worried about how accurate it would be for what time (I was > considering adapting it for mundane use ). I have it currently cut out > of a lightweight black wool (sold to me as a challis, but really more of a > crepe) but have not yet sewn it up. > > One thing I noted about the pattern is that the puff on the upper sleeve is > done by an undersleeve lining (I think Butterick calls it a "stay")... > which means that if your fabric isn't crisp, the puff will droop -- and it > will be a problem to iron. > > At the "Extreme Beauty" exhibit (and in the catalog), I saw a number of > boned "sleeve stays" that tied to the corset cover/chemisette/camisole > (depending on the era?), and I'm looking towards the idea of using sleeve > stays instead of the indicated, umm, lining. While I'm not concerned about > authenticity for a blouse I intend to wear primarily mundanely, I'm > wondering what would have been the accurate period construction? > > > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 18:11:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19810 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:11:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5N42NP010377; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5N41FU022045; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5N3CFU021571 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:03:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id gA5N3C6161879 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:03:12 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet In-Reply-To: <20021105.102310.-334313.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:03:11 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > One important thing to notice about this fabric is the fact that it's a > 'burn-out sheer'. And as such, it is *NOT* 100% silk. disclaimer: I could be wrong, the words "burn-out" do not appear on the page, and it could be a woven voided velvet. However, it looks and sounds like a burn-out velvet, in which case it *must* be a blend, silk and rayon being most common. The chemicals used for burn-out can't distinguish between pile and ground unless they are different fibers. On the other hand, this is a truely lovely fabric, and could well be worth the $105 they're asking per yard. It's just (probably) not 100% silk. Emma I've done burn-out. It's smelly, but fun. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 18:18:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19838 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:18:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5NI3NP011489; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5NI1FU029218; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA5NHUFU028935 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:17:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021105231724.11624.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:17:24 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:17:24 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> wrote: > On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > > One important thing to notice about this fabric is > the fact that it's a > > 'burn-out sheer'. > > And as such, it is *NOT* 100% silk. disclaimer: I > could be wrong, the > words "burn-out" do not appear on the page, and it > could be a woven > voided velvet. It definitely says "sheer background", so you are right. It's not a woven voided velvet, it's not cut velvet either - it's a figured velvet with voided areas - either a chiffon velvet or a devore velvet, judging from the description in "Velvet: History techniques fashions". Devore velvet sounds like what we modernly call "burn-out". > However, it looks and sounds like a > burn-out velvet, in > which case it *must* be a blend, silk and rayon > being most common. The > chemicals used for burn-out can't distinguish > between pile and ground > unless they are different fibers. So it would be made with a ground fibre of silk and synthetic pile? Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 18:40:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19996 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:40:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Nd2NP013438; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Nd0FU010225; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5NcNFU009873 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:38:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-11-208.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.11.208] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 189DH3-0006Cm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 23:38:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c28524$ee61d120$d00b23d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 23:41:57 -0000 Status: RO Emma wrote: > And as such, it is *NOT* 100% silk. disclaimer: I could be wrong, the > words "burn-out" do not appear on the page, and it could be a woven > voided velvet. However, it looks and sounds like a burn-out velvet, in > which case it *must* be a blend, silk and rayon being most common. The > chemicals used for burn-out can't distinguish between pile and ground > unless they are different fibers. Actually, I think it looks like a 100% silk velvet; not a burnout. Thanks to the kind h-coster who pointed me to Paron Fabrics in New York this summer I got my hands on some, at considerably less than $105 per yard, and whilst contemporary 100% silk voided velvets don't look like Renaissance velvets they don't look like burn out either. Which is why I drew the attention of h-costers to this fabric. Now my silk velvet is black ground with leaves of a vast number of shades scattered across it; the colours sing. I doubt that I will ever bring myself to take a pair of scissors to it, though suggestions of an appropriate pattern and period would be most welcome. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 18:42:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20005 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:42:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Nh1NP013848; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA5Nh0FU012191; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA5NgWFU011909 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:42:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 6877 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 23:42:30 -0000 Received: from dap-208-1-140-92.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO default) (208.1.140.92) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 23:42:30 -0000 Message-ID: <003b01c28524$d5b94180$5c8c01d0@default> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Source for Italian silks - 13th, 14th and 15th centuries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Janet Davis" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:41:14 -0500 Status: RO > Italienische Seidengewebe des 13, 14 und 15 Jahrhunderts > by Brigitte Tietzel Could you post the ISBN? That would be the easiest way to track it down, especially since the title is in a foreign language (I have enough trouble spelling English). Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 19:42:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20399 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:42:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60d4NP018254; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:39:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60d0FU004725; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60c9FU004438 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id gA60c9k181835 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:38:09 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet In-Reply-To: <20021105231724.11624.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:38:09 -0600 (CST) Status: RO > It definitely says "sheer background", so you are > right. It's not a woven voided velvet, it's not cut > velvet either - it's a figured velvet with voided > areas - either a chiffon velvet or a devore velvet, > judging from the description in "Velvet: History > techniques fashions". Devore velvet sounds like what > we modernly call "burn-out". Yes, devore and burn-out are the same thing. I just couldn't remember how to spell devore. I think it's *possible* to weave a velvet with a chiffon ground....(stumbles to a halt) No, never mind, I don't think it is. > So it would be made with a ground fibre of silk and > synthetic pile? Yes, if we're calling Rayon synthetic. In this case, the ground is a protein fiber and the pile is a cellulosic fiber. Protein fibers are dissolved by strong bases, and cellulosics by strong acids. You could do devore with a rayon ground and a silk pile, using a strong base as your burn-out chemical, but that would be silly: rayon is a relatively weak fiber and your fabric would be likely to fall apart. You could also do burn-out with a nonreactive synthetic as the ground, or a dissolvable synthetic (like acetate) for the pile. I've found a rayon/acetate changable taffeta that I'm curious to try. Some areas would have the red warp only, some the green weft only. Some areas would have no fabric left at all. It could be fun. Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 19:44:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20408 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:44:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60j5NP018713; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:45:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60j3FU006945; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60inFU006850 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:44:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id gA60in6186177 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:44:49 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet In-Reply-To: <000601c28524$ee61d120$d00b23d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:44:49 -0600 (CST) Status: RO > Actually, I think it looks like a 100% silk velvet; not a burnout. > Thanks to the kind h-coster who pointed me to Paron Fabrics in New > York this summer I got my hands on some, at considerably less than > $105 per yard, and whilst contemporary 100% silk voided velvets don't > look like Renaissance velvets they don't look like burn out either. > Which is why I drew the attention of h-costers to this fabric. > Now my silk velvet is black ground with leaves of a vast number of > shades scattered across it; the colours sing. I doubt that I will ever > bring myself to take a pair of scissors to it, though suggestions of > an appropriate pattern and period would be most welcome. I wish I could see your velvet! My understanding of velvet weaves makes a sheer ground unlikely, but this would not be the first time I was wrong! Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 19:49:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20455 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:49:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60o2NP019010; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60o1FU008578; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60nYFU008459 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:49:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m158.in-tch.com [216.166.191.158]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA60Y7119937 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:34:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DC8672C.D10734EA@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet References: <17e.11599713.2af94dd9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:49:48 -0700 Status: RO *blink, blink* For _you_ to wear, Albert, or just to make? I think it'd make a great "slinky" dress--that way, you could work _with_ the drape, and not against it.... --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 19:55:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20480 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:55:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60s1NP019223; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60s0FU009808; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60rNFU009610 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:53:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m158.in-tch.com [216.166.191.158]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA60bt121277 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:37:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DC86812.828168F8@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Efforts, was: prizewinning victorian References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:53:38 -0700 Status: RO Really? Was the fancy stuff more of an officer thang? --Sue, pretty ignorant of English Civil War Stuff.... Kate M Bunting wrote: > > Those Victorian illustrators of "Cavaliers and Roundheads" had a lot to answer for. It took a while for people to realise that Royalist private soldiers would not have worn lace, braid or sashes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 19:58:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20490 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:58:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60x2NP019598; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60x0FU011469; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60wbFU011336 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:58:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.184.115da226 (30970) for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:58:24 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <184.115da226.2af9c32f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_184.115da226.2af9c32f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:58:23 EST Status: RO --part1_184.115da226.2af9c32f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/2002 7:50:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: > *blink, blink* > For _you_ to wear, Albert, or just to make? I think it'd make a great > "slinky" dress--that way, you could work _with_ the drape, and not > against it.... > With a bias swag over my beer gut..... --part1_184.115da226.2af9c32f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/2002 7:50:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes:


*blink, blink*
For _you_ to wear, Albert, or just to make? I think it'd make a great
"slinky" dress--that way, you could work _with_ the drape, and not
against it....


With a bias swag over my beer gut..... --part1_184.115da226.2af9c32f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 19:59:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20495 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:59:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6101NP019704; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6101FU011827; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA60xbFU011673 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:59:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m158.in-tch.com [216.166.191.158]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA60i8123508 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:44:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DC86986.B4082E1A@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:59:50 -0700 Status: RO The actual, pre-1600s cut-and-voided velvet I saw last year (up close and personal--it was unbelievably hard *not to touch!!*) had a couple of different "backgrounds," neither of which was sheer. ISTR, one had a definite "satin" background, and the other, a plainer weave (maybe tabby--I'd have to hunt down my notes). They were beautiful, and nothing much like the piece we're discussing in this thread (which is lovely on its own, but pretty modern to my eyes--even if Ren.-inspired). --sue Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > > Actually, I think it looks like a 100% silk velvet; not a burnout. > > Thanks to the kind h-coster who pointed me to Paron Fabrics in New > > York this summer I got my hands on some, at considerably less than > > $105 per yard, and whilst contemporary 100% silk voided velvets don't > > look like Renaissance velvets they don't look like burn out either. > > Which is why I drew the attention of h-costers to this fabric. > > Now my silk velvet is black ground with leaves of a vast number of > > shades scattered across it; the colours sing. I doubt that I will ever > > bring myself to take a pair of scissors to it, though suggestions of > > an appropriate pattern and period would be most welcome. > > I wish I could see your velvet! My understanding of velvet weaves makes a > sheer ground unlikely, but this would not be the first time I was wrong! > > Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 20:16:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20611 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:16:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA61H3NP020643; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA61H1FU016884; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA61GkFU016799 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:16:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip106.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.106]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gA61GeY01829 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:16:41 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 100% Silk Cut Velvet Message-ID: <3DC7FC13.17748.246CD433@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <17e.11599713.2af94dd9@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:12:51 -0800 Status: RO From: AlbertCat@aol.com > Yes, even though the design seems Renn. inspired. And it is beautiful. > > > I'd make a 30's evening gown out if it....with a shiny satin slip. > Ooooo.... IMHO this is *exactly* what this fabric was designed for. ;) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 20:35:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20723 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:35:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA61a2NP021691; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA61a0FU022645; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA61Z6FU022344 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:35:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021106013458.48099.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:34:58 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Chiffon Velvet (was 100% Silk Cut Velvet) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:34:58 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> wrote: I think it's *possible* to weave a > velvet with a chiffon > ground....(stumbles to a halt) No, never mind, I > don't think it is. This is what I have on chiffon velvet.... "Chiffon velvet, The weaving of velvet on a crepe de chine ground dates from the turn of the nineteenth century, but it was not widely used, until a system was invented at the end of that century for using raw yarn in the weaving, leading to the creation of a geat many new types of crepe fabrics. Crepes and velvets on a crepes ground could be solid or figured, and in some cases printed with patterns. Incredibly light and soft, these were woven from the Twenties on with artificial fibres as well." I was a little confused by the interchanging of crepe and chiffon, until I found this: "Hard twist silk yarns can be used to make ‘crêpe chiffon’, with a characteristic crinkled surface appearance. The term chiffon is also used as a prefix to other fabric names to indicate very lightweight versions of these fabrics, e.g. chiffon velvet, chif-fon taffeta, etc." The Resil Textile dictionary (where the above info on crepe chiffon comes from) defines chiffon velvet as "Very light, soft velvet fabric with little substance to it. It is floaty and effective but very difficult to sew. It has a short cut pile." Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 5 21:29:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20970 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:29:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA62R8NP024559; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:27:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA62R1FU008037; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA62QBFU007792 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:26:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id ADC2DD001FA; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:26:10 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ADC2191D0144; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:26:10 -0600 Message-ID: <003601c2853b$d8ca5aa0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <30.30239808.2af975ee@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nov. Online Costume Classes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01C28511.EFB12F20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:26:00 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C28511.EFB12F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kit, The classes on listed on the schedule months in advance. I also send reminders to people on my website newsletter email list. You can join the newsletter at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumegallery/ Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nov. Online Costume Classes In a message dated 11/3/02 9:55:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: We have three classes starting at the Costume Classroom www.costumeclassroom.com this week: ***Making an Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe: Elizabethan Gown (this is made with Margo's pattern) ***A Victorian Lady: Make Your Own Bustle Era Skirt ***Costume Analysis of Four Films Set in 1912-1914 We still have open slots for students in each class. Penny, I realize this is kind of a stupid question, but do you list the classes on the website, or anyplace for that matter, a couple weeks before they start? I am always interested in taking classes, but find that they have generally already started. Kit ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C28511.EFB12F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kit,
 
The classes on listed on the schedule months in advance.  I = also send=20 reminders to people on my website newsletter email list.  You can = join the=20 newsletter at
http://groups.yaho= o.com/group/costumegallery/
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kitsune242@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, = 2002 2:28=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nov. = Online Costume=20 Classes

In a message dated 11/3/02 9:55:45 PM Pacific = Standard=20 Time, penny@costumegallery.com=20 writes:


We have three classes starting at the Costume = Classroom
www.costumeclassroom.com&nbs= p;=20 this week:

***Making an Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe: = Elizabethan Gown=20 (this is made
with Margo's pattern)
***A Victorian Lady: Make = Your Own=20 Bustle Era Skirt
***Costume Analysis of Four Films Set in=20 1912-1914

We still have open slots for students in each=20 class.

Penny,

I realize this is kind of a = stupid=20 question, but do you list the classes on the website, or anyplace for = that=20 matter, a couple weeks before they start?  I am always interested = in=20 taking classes, but find that they have generally already=20 started.

Kit ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C28511.EFB12F20-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 04:24:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04942 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 04:24:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA69J9NP017405; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 02:19:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA69J1FU025274; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 02:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA69IvFU025261 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 02:18:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gA69LK003537.; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:21:21 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:18:56 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Efforts, was: prizewinning victorian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gA69IvFU025261 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:18:47 +0000 Status: RO a) It's a myth that you could instantly tell which side a person was on by their clothing. A few wealthier Puritans dressed plainly on principle, but most people of both persuasions dressed as elegantly as they could afford to do. The traditional image of the Parliamentarian trooper in buffcoat, breastplate and lobster-tail helmet is approximately what the cavalry of *both* sides wore in battle; the broad-brimmed hats would be worn off duty. b) Lace (being hand-made) and sashes (being silk) were too expensive for the common soldier. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> mooncat@in-tch.com 11/06/02 12:53am >>> Really? Was the fancy stuff more of an officer thang? --Sue, pretty ignorant of English Civil War Stuff.... Kate M Bunting wrote: > > Those Victorian illustrators of "Cavaliers and Roundheads" had a lot to answer for. It took a while for people to realise that Royalist private soldiers would not have worn lace, braid or sashes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 07:53:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10537 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:53:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6Cs8NP025007; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:54:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6Cs1FU008977; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6CrLFU008833 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:53:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] (exim) by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 189PgZ-0000hV-00; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:53:31 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 189PgO-0002zK-00; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:53:20 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] period embroidery In-Reply-To: <200211050930.BAA14882@gw.retro.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:53:20 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: >Kayta wrote: >> >Finally a 1896 blouse with >> >those lovely huge sleeves. What would they have used >> >for sleeve supports I wonder? To save a bit on ironing a cotton or linen 1890's puffed sleeve blouse I try and hang it dry with a balloon in the sleeve, flattening the gathers over it. It works pretty well. I sometimes have a hard time blowing the balloon up big enough for my really large sleeved blouse. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 09:06:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13173 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:06:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6E62NP028657; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6E61FU026857; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6E5ZFU026707 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:05:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-14-14.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.14.14] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 189QoH-00038h-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:05:33 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c2859e$142521e0$0e0e24d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021106013458.48099.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chiffon Velvet (was 100% Silk Cut Velvet) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:09:10 -0000 Status: RO Bella wrote: >The Resil Textile dictionary (where the above info on >crepe chiffon comes from) defines chiffon velvet as >"Very light, soft velvet fabric with little substance >to it. It is floaty and effective but very difficult >to sew. It has a short cut pile." Yes, indeed; it is so fine that the velvet is almost sheer. Paron fabrics had some of that also, and very lovely it was too, but by that point I'd exhausted all available funds. If I'd bought that, I would have had to swim home:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 10:16:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13893 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:16:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6FF3NP003239; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6FF1Bh018724; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail1.mackie.com [12.144.237.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6FEaBh018549 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:14:36 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Source for Italian silks - 13th, 14th and 15th centuries Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Source for Italian silks - 13th, 14th and 15th centuries Thread-Index: AcKFJTw+Cq1uoF5OQGCQfZ2HH6oG4AAgbdEg From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gA6FEaBh018549 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:14:34 -0800 Status: RO > Italienische Seidengewebe des 13, 14 und 15 Jahrhunderts > by Brigitte Tietzel <> Sorry, Janet, there wasn't one in the book - I looked. I actually was able to find a copy on www.bookfinder.com for about $35 US, but that's gone now and on its way to my house. ;-) Best regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 12:50:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15254 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:50:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6HkBNP018091; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:46:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6Hk05A007160; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6HjQ5A006789 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:45:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021106174520.KRZU6092.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:45:20 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c285bc$45ae9390$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1890's sleeves Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:45:18 -0800 Status: RO I came across these 1830's sleeve pads on the Kyoto Costume Institute's webpage -- I think these would be similar to what might be worn in the 1890's. http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/collection.cgi?lang=e&path=1820/09-009455_a - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 14:23:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16396 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:23:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6JK5NP028405; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6JK15A005082; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6JJ85A004583 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.162.168f24c7 (4246) for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:19:00 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <162.168f24c7.2afac523@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 1890's sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_162.168f24c7.2afac523_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:18:59 EST Status: RO --part1_162.168f24c7.2afac523_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/6/2002 12:47:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, kendrav@attbi.com writes: > I came across these 1830's sleeve pads on the Kyoto Costume Institute's > webpage -- I think these would be similar to what might be worn in the > 1890's. > Though let us not forget that 1890s gigot sleeve goes UP, they fly up from a natural shoulder. 1830s gigot sleeves pouf out low on the shoulder. The emphasis is horizontal. But, yes, the same general contraptions for keeping the sleeves of both periods either up or out are used. --part1_162.168f24c7.2afac523_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/6/2002 12:47:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, kendrav@attbi.com writes:


I came across these 1830's sleeve pads on the Kyoto Costume Institute's
webpage -- I think these would be similar to what might be worn in the
1890's.


Though let us not forget that 1890s gigot sleeve goes UP, they fly up from a natural shoulder. 1830s gigot sleeves pouf out low on the shoulder. The emphasis is horizontal.

But, yes, the same general contraptions for keeping the sleeves of both periods either up or out are used. --part1_162.168f24c7.2afac523_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 15:15:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16718 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:15:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6KC4NP003402; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:12:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6KC1Lk003905; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6KBmLk003769 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:11:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189WWg-000ACq-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:11:47 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] Hair control, was Re: forehead cloths References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:10:16 +0000 Status: RO I don't have a fringe, but I certainly recommend the use of some kind of scarf or undercap for any headcovering. It keeps your hair under control, and it also provides a solid base to keep the upper layers under control, since you can pin into it. Appropriate format depends on your period, and whether any of it will show. I have friends who use sprang hairnets or linen coifs - I prefer a scarf, since it's adjustable whether I have my hair down in braids or up in a bun. Jean Kate M Bunting wrote >The embroidered forehead cloths shown in >http://costume.dm.net/headwear/coifpics.html appear to be a single >triangular piece rather than a folded square; though the long edge >would still be on the bias. >Speaking as one with a strong, thick fringe (bangs) which it's >difficult to keep out of the way when in costume, Gail's suggestion >sounds worth trying. > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >>>> gailscott@eos.net 11/03/02 02:56pm >>> > >But this is what I do. I have a square of white linen that I fold in half on >the cross, with two strips of flat lacing on the corners. I pull my hair >back (I have bangs, and they are so hard to control) and put this on like a >scarf, with the long fold on the bias covering the upper part of my >forehead. I take the laces OVER my head, about the top of my head, and tie >them back at my neck. Then I wear coifs or other headgear on top. > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan >service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working >around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com >________________________________________________________________________ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 15:40:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16822 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6KQ2NP004560; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6KQ1Lk011465; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6KPCLk011057 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189Wjd-000B0f-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:25:09 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Forehead cloth/cross clothes References: <20021102100451.92238.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20021102100451.92238.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:24:08 +0000 Status: RO On the basis of 5 minutes looking... We seem to have 3 headcovering items here. There is the wired coif (earpieces just showing), the tight forehead cloth, and the loose hood-type item which fastens (or not, in the case of VISIT_METSU) around the neck. I have a book of Allan Ramsay portraits which show a number of ladies, always at their best, in either a wired coif or the loose hood, but both showing hair under them. Both the old and the sick are expected to need to keep warm and keep their heads well-wrapped - perhaps that is the function of the tight forehead cloth, and it is combined as appropriate with the fashion headcovering? Just an instant thought Jean N Kipar wrote >Actually, I think there is a mix-up in understanding of forehead cloths. What >bridget Holmes is wearing >http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/r/riley/holmes.jpg >is not what reconvalescent/ill/lying-in women are wearing. I thought so too at >first but then I discovered that there are differences. >Look at the difference, here an old woman in 1660-65: >http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/focus/1660-65_OLDWOMAN_DOU.JPG >she is wearing what Bridget Holmes is wearing, and here another in the 1660s: >http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/focus/NIDDY-NODDY_DOU.JPG >Here a sick woman in 1660-70: >http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/focus/1660-70_ANAEMIC-LADY_HOOGST >RAATEN.JPG >and another >http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/focus/1660-67_VISIT_METSU.JPG > >I do think that there is a difference, and it strikes me that the sick always >wear the very tight forehead cloth with something loose over it, as if it were >an addition, while the old women are wearing a cloth tied over their normal >'clip-on coif' (as i call the wired ones) to do exactly what Joy described, to >protect and be useful. >That's my tupennce and a half after studying the period 1660-1715 for years. > >Nicole > > --- Joy Shillaker wrote: > >> http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/index1.html >> >> look at the painting of Bridgette Holmes by John Riley. She was famous for >> being 90 years old. She appears to be wearing a forehead cloth.A nice >> example of someone wearing clothes from when they were younger. >> >> Jan Steen 'celebrating the birth' shows a woman who has just delivered >> wearing a forehead cloth and in the same painting there is a woman who >> appears to be pregnant wearing a forehead cloth under a linen chaperone(I >> think that's what it's called) >> >> I have a little web gallery of paintings showing forehead cloths, but I >> can't work out how to put it on line. I'll get my partner to do it. >> >> The three examples of forehead cloths I have examined dating from early to >> late 17th century are made from squares of linen folded in half to make a >> triangle with tape sewn at either end of the front. Two were plain and one >> had tiny embroidered picots work along the forehead edge. >> On the embroidered cloth the weft count was approx 120 to the inch (between >> 115- 122 because of the slubs in the threads)I could only see the sewing >> stitches with my linen checker, there were over 30 to the inch and the >> sewing thread appeared to be roughly half as thick as the fabric threads. I >> asked someone with 20/20 vision to see if they could see the stitches with >> the naked eye. They couldn't, this kind of work may have been sewn by feel. >> >> In 'The Baby in the Bush' Anne Buck, a foundling baby, late 17th is >> described as having a cross cloth pinned over the face. >> >> I wear my forehead cloth with the long striaght edge just below my hair >> line, tied at the back of the neck the cloth covering my ears this keeps my >> ears warm and cosy. My coif then goes over the top. The added bonus is that >> I don't get coif slippage. When cooking over an open fire the cloth prevents >> sweat running into my eyes. The folded edge fits neatly on the forehead >> because it's on the bias. >> >> Few forehead cloths are seen in pictures, so far I've noticed babies wearing >> them,(to protect the fontanelle I've heard) pregnant and nursing mothers, a >> servant and women who are in bed ill. My feeling is that they are very much >> a utility item, and possibly only worn at home perhaps some kind of early >> modern sweatband? >> >> I've been working on a set of C17th baby cloths for a few months now and >> hope to get the pictures comleted soon. The clothes are copies of items from >> Bath Museum of Costume. >> >> regards >> Joy >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! >> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >===== >Nicole Kipar M.A. >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: nicole@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 20:43:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18289 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:43:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA71f9NP001757; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:41:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA71f0Ck019281; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA71euCk019244 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:40:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.12e.1aa20b1d (3972) for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:40:40 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <12e.1aa20b1d.2afb1e97@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_12e.1aa20b1d.2afb1e97_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Subject: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:40:39 EST Status: RO --part1_12e.1aa20b1d.2afb1e97_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a question for those people in the U.S. particularly (or anyone else) who have been doing Ren Faires for awhile. What happens to all the old garb that people get tired of? Does period clothing circulate and/or get resold? Has anyone ever gone to a Ren Faire as a Fripper, a dealer in second hand goods as their gig? Is there any sort of on-line list dealing in the exchange of old renaissance costumes? Apart from E-bay I mean. Do you think there would be any interest in such a list? Just curious, Lisa --part1_12e.1aa20b1d.2afb1e97_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a question for those people in the U.S. particularly (or anyone else) who have been doing Ren Faires for awhile.  What happens to all the old garb that people get tired of?  Does period clothing circulate and/or get resold?  Has anyone ever gone to a Ren Faire as a Fripper, a dealer in second hand goods as their gig?  Is there any sort of on-line list dealing in the exchange of old renaissance costumes?  Apart from E-bay I mean.  Do you think there would be any interest in such a list? 

Just curious,

Lisa --part1_12e.1aa20b1d.2afb1e97_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 21:12:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18387 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:12:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7272NP003202; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7271Ck027574; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f82.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7267Ck027284 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:06:02 -0800 Received: from 65.70.196.209 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:06:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.70.196.209] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2002 02:06:02.0707 (UTC) FILETIME=[392C8230:01C28602] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:06:02 +0000 Status: RO I'm primarily in the SCA, altough I do attend the Texas-based RenFaires. Most of the time what I see is old stuff either gets given to someone else (either due to a closet cleaning or because it doesn't fit satisfactorily anymore) or it simply gets trashed. (Oh my! And what time period is that supposed to be? Nothing documentable, and I wouldn't inflict it on anyone!) For second-hand stuff, the closest thing we have here would be the LOCAL SCA's Hospitaler's Guild (read: newcomer's guild) that has some simple pieces available for loan. I'd be interested in talking to anyone who involves second-hand clothing in their "personas", as their was a thriving trade in it in Renaissance Italy. Mary/Katerine > >I have a question for those people in the U.S. particularly (or anyone >else) >who have been doing Ren Faires for awhile. What happens to all the old >garb >that people get tired of? Does period clothing circulate and/or get >resold? >Has anyone ever gone to a Ren Faire as a Fripper, a dealer in second hand >goods as their gig? Is there any sort of on-line list dealing in the >exchange of old renaissance costumes? Apart from E-bay I mean. Do you >think >there would be any interest in such a list? > >Just curious, > >Lisa _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 21:23:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18429 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:23:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA72J2NP003840; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA72J0Ck001618; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA72IMCk001389 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:18:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.175.1155af38 (4539) for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:18:14 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <175.1155af38.2afb2766@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_175.1155af38.2afb2766_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:18:14 EST Status: RO --part1_175.1155af38.2afb2766_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/6/02 6:08:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, noxcat@hotmail.com writes: > I'd be interested in talking to anyone who involves second-hand clothing in > their "personas", as their was a thriving trade in it in Renaissance Italy. > Yes, I find the subject most interesting too, although I am just starting to read about it. I ask because I a working on a web site that will be a virutal glimpse of the clothiers on Threadneedle St in Renaissance London. I will have a page devoted to a frippers shop and I was thinking of creating a list that I could link to the page for anyone who wanted to post info on outfits they wanted to get rid of. Old ones, not new creations, ff that would be a servce to the ren faire community. It would certainly bring my web site to life as I would like it to be as interactive as possible, so I am sounding out the possibilities. Any feedback would be appreciated. Lisa --part1_175.1155af38.2afb2766_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/6/02 6:08:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, noxcat@hotmail.com writes:


I'd be interested in talking to anyone who involves second-hand clothing in
their "personas", as their was a thriving trade in it in Renaissance Italy.


Yes, I find the subject most interesting too, although I am just starting to read about it.  I ask because I a working on a  web site that will be a virutal glimpse of  the clothiers on Threadneedle St in Renaissance London.  I will have a page devoted to a frippers shop and I was thinking of creating a list that I could link to the page for anyone who wanted to post info on outfits they wanted to get rid of. Old ones, not new creations, ff that would be a servce to the ren faire community.  It would certainly bring my web site to life as I would like it to be as interactive as possible, so I am sounding out the possibilities.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Lisa --part1_175.1155af38.2afb2766_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 21:32:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18498 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:32:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA72M0NP003980; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA72M0Ck002490; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA72LuCk002451 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:21:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.116.1a120839 (4539) for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:21:38 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <116.1a120839.2afb2832@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_116.1a120839.2afb2832_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:21:38 EST Status: RO --part1_116.1a120839.2afb2832_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/6/02 6:19:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, LSinervo@aol.com writes: > I was thinking of creating a list that I could link to the page for anyone > who wanted to post info on outfits they wanted to get rid of I meant, a link on my page that would link to the list. --part1_116.1a120839.2afb2832_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/6/02 6:19:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, LSinervo@aol.com writes:


I was thinking of creating a list that I could link to the page for anyone who wanted to post info on outfits they wanted to get rid of



I meant, a link on my page that would link to the list.
 --part1_116.1a120839.2afb2832_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 21:47:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18547 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:47:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA72b2NP004762; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA72b0Ck007071; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf38bis.bellsouth.net (mail119.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA72aQCk006883 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlphaB ([67.35.50.194]) by imf38bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with ESMTP id <20021107023806.IEOK4128.imf38bis.bellsouth.net@AlphaB> for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:38:06 -0500 From: "Ann Neff" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb Message-ID: <000801c28606$7447e630$5f67fea9@AlphaB> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C285DC.8B71DE30" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <12e.1aa20b1d.2afb1e97@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:36:14 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C285DC.8B71DE30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Fripper" - what a cool word! Is it a root of frippery? Around here (Georgia Renaissance Festival) we loan to each other, or perhaps sell to someone as an individual. It's a great idea, but you'd have to get enough pieces to give a selection. One problem would be re-selling easily recognized items from booths at that faire, and being competition. For instance I can spot clothes from Heart's Delight, Royal Family, and Moresca from a long way . Ann -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of LSinervo@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:41 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb I have a question for those people in the U.S. particularly (or anyone else) who have been doing Ren Faires for awhile. What happens to all the old garb that people get tired of? Does period clothing circulate and/or get resold? Has anyone ever gone to a Ren Faire as a Fripper, a dealer in second hand goods as their gig? Is there any sort of on-line list dealing in the exchange of old renaissance costumes? Apart from E-bay I mean. Do you think there would be any interest in such a list? Just curious, Lisa ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C285DC.8B71DE30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 "Fripper"  - what a cool word!   Is it a = root of=20 frippery?
 
Around here (Georgia Renaissance Festival) we loan to each = other, or=20 perhaps sell to someone as an individual.  It's a great idea, but = you'd=20 have to get enough pieces to give a selection.  One problem would=20 be re-selling easily recognized items from booths at that = faire, and=20 being competition.  For instance I=20 can spot clothes from Heart's Delight, Royal Family, and Moresca = from=20 a long way .  
 
Ann=20
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On = Behalf Of=20 LSinervo@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:41 = PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] = Fripper's and=20 second hand garb

I have a question for those = people in the=20 U.S. particularly (or anyone else) who have been doing Ren Faires for=20 awhile.  What happens to all the old garb that people get tired = of? =20 Does period clothing circulate and/or get resold?  Has anyone = ever gone=20 to a Ren Faire as a Fripper, a dealer in second hand goods as their = gig? =20 Is there any sort of on-line list dealing in the exchange of old = renaissance=20 costumes?  Apart from E-bay I mean.  Do you think there = would be any=20 interest in such a list? 

Just = curious,

Lisa=20
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C285DC.8B71DE30-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 6 23:25:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18974 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:25:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA74O2NP010791; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA74O1Ck010791; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12005.mail.yahoo.com (web12005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.213]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA74NhCk010654 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:23:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021107042343.55529.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.247] by web12005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:23:43 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Florence exhibit in Chicago Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:23:43 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I was being stupid the other day and lost my bookmarks. Could some kind soul post again the dates for the Florence exhibit to be in Chicago and where. I keep forgetting that my kids are not little anymore, I can take an occasional day trip somewhere with a girl friend to navigate and I live only 3 hours south of Chicago. I still have trouble losing the indispensable mommy mindset even though the baby is now eleven. Working on various eras of corsets and shifts. What is the usual amount of ease for these two garments. Some corset eras lace all the way closed and some have "spring". Some shifts are very loose, as in Bella's camisias, while others look pretty close to the body. I'm looking at Regency and Elizabethan right now for time periods and have to alter to allow for the mountains (DD) but have no real idea as to how much ease to allow for correctness and comfort. A ballpark figure to start with and then I will go into mock-ups, probably of printed calico so I'll have new night wear and not waste the lovely hankerchief linen the nice lady ordered for me. Cassandra (who must now leave for work) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 00:08:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19074 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:08:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7567NP013023; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7560Ck022639; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA755gCk022505 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:05:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.14a.17041c71 (4446) for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:05:24 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <14a.17041c71.2afb4e93@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14a.17041c71.2afb4e93_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:05:23 EST Status: RO --part1_14a.17041c71.2afb4e93_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/6/02 6:38:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20 a_neff@bellsouth.net writes: > "Fripper" - what a cool word! Is it a root of frippery? >=20 > Main Entry: frip=B7pery > Pronunciation: 'fri-p(&-)rE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -per=B7ies=20 Etymology: Middle French friperie, alteration of Old French freperie, from=20 frepe old garment Date: 1568 1 : obsolete : a : cast-off clothes b : archaic : a place where old clothes=20 are sold=20 2 a : FINERY; al= so : an elegant or showy garment b : something showy,=20 frivolous, or nonessential : LUXURY, TRIFLE c : OSTE= NTATION; especially :=20 something foolish or affectedly elegant=20 yes........I like the word very much myself. --part1_14a.17041c71.2afb4e93_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/6/02 6:38:20 PM Pacific Standard= Time, a_neff@bellsouth.net writes:


"Fripper"  - what a cool word!   Is it a r= oot of frippery?

Main Entry: frip= =B7pery
Pronunciat= ion: 'fri-p(&-)rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s):  plural -per=B7ies
Etymology: Middle French friperie, alteration of Old French freperie, from frepe old garment
Date: 1568
1 : obsolete : a : cast-off clothes b : archa= ic : a place where old clothes are sold
2 a : FINERY<= /A>; also : an elegant or showy garment b : something s= howy, frivolous, or nonessential : LUXURY, TRIFLE c : OSTENTATION; especially : something foolis= h or affectedly elegant

yes........I like the word v= ery much myself.

 --part1_14a.17041c71.2afb4e93_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 01:50:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19413 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:50:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA76e2NP017717; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA76e0Ck016071; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA76d6Ck015860 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:39:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (pcp02823258pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.255.99]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5700J7414VF7@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 01:38:56 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell In-reply-to: <20021106190009.24244.743.Mailman@net.indra.com> X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021106160703.00accda8@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1427 - 4 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:09:02 -0500 Status: RO At 09:45 AM 11/6/2002 -0800, Kendra wrote: >I came across these 1830's sleeve pads on the Kyoto Costume Institute's >webpage -- I think these would be similar to what might be worn in the >1890's. Based on the shape and on the garments in Patterns of Fashion, I suspect these are pads for the false undersleeves -- not for puffed shoulder/leg-of-mutton sleeves. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 03:55:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA00480 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 03:55:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA78p3NP023178; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:51:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA78p1Ck016089; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA78oCCk015834 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:50:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AE7560C801EC; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:47:33 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AE76269C0102; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:47:34 -0600 Message-ID: <022d01c28621$10481f40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Deadline Approaching Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:46:48 -0500 Status: RO Just a reminder that Sunday is the deadline to enter the 2002 Online Costume Ball. If you enter after that date, you will be held over for the 2003 Ball. I will be adding new guests all week long as my back holds up. The guests that I added to the Ball tonight start at Group 9 Guest 38 through Group 10 Guest 48. I still have several guests to add so check back frequently. Take a close look at Guest 40 called "Elizabethan News." In one photo she is holding all of the skirt pleated in two hands. When she twirls (the first photo) all the pleats of newspaper expand into a full skirt like a drum farthingale. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 04:28:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23274 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 04:28:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA79L2NP024566; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA79L1Ck022234; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA79KQCk022111 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gA79Mo024761.; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:22:50 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:20:24 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadline Approaching Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gA79KQCk022111 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:20:17 +0000 Status: RO I love Stephen's Green Man costume! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> penny@costumegallery.com 11/07/02 05:46am >>> Just a reminder that Sunday is the deadline to enter the 2002 Online Costume Ball. If you enter after that date, you will be held over for the 2003 Ball. I will be adding new guests all week long as my back holds up. The guests that I added to the Ball tonight start at Group 9 Guest 38 through Group 10 Guest 48. I still have several guests to add so check back frequently. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 06:43:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24631 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:43:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Bf2NP028369; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 04:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Bf0Ck018063; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 04:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA7BerCk018031 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 04:40:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021107114052.4524.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:40:52 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Forehead cloth/cross clothes To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:40:52 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Jean Waddie wrote: > On the basis of 5 minutes looking... We seem to have 3 headcovering > items here. There is the wired coif (earpieces just showing), the tight > forehead cloth, and the loose hood-type item which fastens (or not, in > the case of VISIT_METSU) around the neck. I have a book of Allan Ramsay > portraits which show a number of ladies, always at their best, in either > a wired coif or the loose hood, but both showing hair under them. Both > the old and the sick are expected to need to keep warm and keep their > heads well-wrapped - perhaps that is the function of the tight forehead > cloth, and it is combined as appropriate with the fashion headcovering? What a good idea! Perhaps the easiest and most logical idea/thought might well be the correct one (in addition to other thoughts perhaps) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 07:51:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24940 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:51:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Cm5NP000582; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 05:48:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Cm0Ck001926; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 05:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7ClNCk001790 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 05:47:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.99] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A0157519033E; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 07:44:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c2865c$2cdeb020$635183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <000801c285bc$45ae9390$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 1890's sleeves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:49:55 -0500 Status: RO I have a pair of these that I believe to be from the 1890s. They differ in size and are somewhat kidney shaped. Three narrow twill ties are purposed to attach them to the armseye. And they are very warm to wear. I can well imagine they were not worn in the summer. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 12:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1890's sleeves > I came across these 1830's sleeve pads on the Kyoto Costume Institute's > webpage -- I think these would be similar to what might be worn in the > 1890's. > > http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/collection.cgi?lang=e&path=1820/09-009455_a > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 08:21:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25150 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:21:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7DF4NP001639; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7DF3Ck007931; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7DCFCk007295 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:12:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-4-156.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.4.156] helo=dan) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 189mSE-0003Dk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:12:14 +0000 Message-ID: <007501c2865f$cc591340$9c0424d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Back-in-Print Books Ltd Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:15:52 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I came across a book reprinted by this company when I was last in hospital, and I wondered whether we might be able to muster sufficient interest in some of those books we always want and are either never are able to find, or horrendously expensive! The quality of the book is excellent, and while it's not going to be cheap it's likely to be achievable , as opposed to wildly beyond our reach. http://www.backinprint.co.uk/whoarewe.html Any thoughts on a wish list? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 08:42:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25261 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:42:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7DeBNP002595; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7De9Ck013759; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:40:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7DdQCk013579 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:39:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a259.in-tch.com [66.62.107.59]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA7DNv921318 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:23:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DCA6D1C.15007D36@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flying with a Parasol? References: <20021030141058.19408.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> <3DC137AE.93F0C156@bigpond.com> <3DC04E6C.412EFA1F@netdefender.com> <4.3.1.2.20021101221655.04c99b30@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 06:39:40 -0700 Status: RO I'm in NW Montana, although it's warmed up some since then. We're back to something a little more rational, although still definitely winter. Blech! --Sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >--sue, who thinks Puerto Rico sounds mighty fine about now....we've got > >record cold temps this week--3 degrees above 0 this a.m. (that's > >farenheit...about 30 degrees below freezing. Not at all sure of what > >the appropriate metric number would be, but d@mn! it's cold out!) > > Where are you? I have a daughter in New York City in college, and she, a > native-Californian, is about to discover Winter. Of course she will need a > New-York-Winter costume, as opposed to the San-Francisco-'Winter' costume > she's been used to all her life. She actually grew up in San Jose, 50 > miles south of San Francisco, where the weather is much milder than it is > in San Francisco. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 08:43:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25265 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:43:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Dg2NP002704; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Dg0Ck014195; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7DfSCk014044 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:41:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-4-156.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.4.156] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 189muV-0004QI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:41:27 +0000 Message-ID: <009b01c28663$e1392c60$9c0424d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <14a.17041c71.2afb4e93@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:45:05 -0000 Status: RO Hi there, Can you cite the dictionary you are quoting? I'm running down references in the OED at the moment, but it would help if I knew the dictionary you are using. Also, what date are you positing for your premises on Threadneedle St? best wishes Stevie _________--- > Main Entry: frip·pery > Pronunciation: 'fri-p(&-)rE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -per·ies Etymology: Middle French friperie, alteration of Old French freperie, from frepe old garment Date: 1568 1 : obsolete : a : cast-off clothes b : archaic : a place where old clothes are sold _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 10:12:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25567 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:12:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7FBKNP008070; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:11:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7FBFCk011699; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:11:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7FA9Ck011246 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:10:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.249.181.50] (pool181-5.patriot.net [209.249.181.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA7FA63S015968 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:10:07 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3DAB9CA4.6010207@earthlink.net> References: <20021014091113.V43189-100000@shell.siscom.net> <009201c27402$3fc9edb0$03cdadcb@michaela> <3DAB9CA4.6010207@earthlink.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] braces & corsets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:09:18 -0500 Status: RO There was some discussion a while back about metal corsets as braces for orthopedic treatment. I wore a brace from ages 10 to 16, and sometimes wonder if my interest in historic corsetry was partially due to the familiarity of wearing one. Someone mentioned a scoliosis brace seeming like a torture device. The only one that looks that way is the Charleston Bend brace, which bends the body in the opposite direction of the curve. It's only worn at night for treatment, since the extent of the bending limits mobility. Otherwise braces fit the shape of the body, or the shape that the body is supposed to be. This web page http://users.netmatters.co.uk/ju90/cylife.htm is written by a woman who wears a brace as an adult, and modified its appearance do make it interesting and fashionable to wear. What a great concept, after so many years of people hiding their differences! I found the page while surfing around after I saw the movie Frida. I really enjoyed the art direction, how her paintings melted in and out of scenes. And, of course, there are some nice early & mid 20thC costumes. :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 10:49:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25719 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:49:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Fm7NP011181; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:48:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Fm1Ck027539; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7FlYCk027240 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:47:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.10d.1a862517 (4230) for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:47:22 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <10d.1a862517.2afbe50a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10d.1a862517.2afbe50a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:47:22 EST Status: RO --part1_10d.1a862517.2afbe50a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/02 5:42:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes: > Can you cite the dictionary you are quoting? I'm running down > references in the OED at the moment, but it would help if I knew the > dictionary you are using. Also, what date are you positing for your > premises on Threadneedle St? I did a cut and paste from the AOL online Merriam Webster dictionary. It is my intention to have the two Tudor / Elizabethan time periods done by the time I launch the site next June, (www.threadneedlest.com if your interested) but I will also be adding era's forwards and backwards. It's a long term project. The thought it behind it is, one can enter a date and have a look at the shops, guilds and industry involved in the clothing trade at any point in time so see what's for sale or what's in style at that point in time. If it was the medieval time period, one might find a number of pages for various guilds and to see what's going out of style, one might look at the fripper's shop page, if you entered in 1960 you might find yourself in a department store. If you entered the current date, you would find my on-line catalogue of vintage/historical reproduction clothing. Rgds, Lisa --part1_10d.1a862517.2afbe50a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/02 5:42:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes:


Can you cite the dictionary you are quoting? I'm running down
references in the OED at the moment, but it would help if I knew the
dictionary you are using. Also, what date are you positing for your
premises on Threadneedle St?


I did a cut and paste from the AOL online Merriam Webster dictionary.  It is my intention to have the two Tudor / Elizabethan time periods done by the time I launch the site next June, (www.threadneedlest.com if your interested) but I will also be adding era's forwards and backwards.  It's a long term project.  The thought it behind it is, one can enter a date and have a look at the shops, guilds and industry involved in the clothing trade at any point in time so see what's for sale or what's in style at that point in time.  If it was the medieval time period, one might find a number of pages for various guilds and to see what's going out of style, one might look at the fripper's shop page, if you entered in 1960 you might find yourself in a department store.  If you entered the current date, you would find my on-line catalogue of vintage/historical reproduction clothing. 

Rgds,

Lisa

 --part1_10d.1a862517.2afbe50a_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 11:18:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25824 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:18:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7GH2NP014216; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7GH0aF012148; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA7GGiaF011951 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Orkrv9dmon5OYDn2B3Vau4s="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HG2BNWQN; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:16:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb Message-ID: <20021107.081608.-211469.4.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-41 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:43:48 +0000 Status: RO When I first saw the word, nightmares of my childhoood TV programming came back to me, and a song started up eeerily in my head, "Fripper, Fripper, Faster than lightning...." Anyone else remember "Flipper"? Oy. :/ Arlys On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:05:23 EST LSinervo@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 11/6/02 6:38:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, > a_neff@bellsouth.net writes: > > > > "Fripper" - what a cool word! Is it a root of frippery? > > > > Main Entry: frip·pery > > Pronunciation: 'fri-p(&-)rE > Function: noun > Inflected Form(s): plural -per·ies > Etymology: Middle French friperie, alteration of Old French > freperie, from > frepe old garment > Date: 1568 > 1 : obsolete : a : cast-off clothes b : archaic : a place where old > clothes > are sold > 2 a : HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0025341.40133375.672502915">FINERY; also > : an elegant or showy garment b : something showy, > frivolous, or nonessential : HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0040987.40149021.672503271">LUXURY, HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0073541.40181578.672606222">TRIFLE c : HREF="aol://4344:1708.D0048297.40156331.672503471">OSTENTATION; > especially : > something foolish or affectedly elegant > > yes........I like the word very much myself. > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 11:49:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25947 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:49:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Gl5NP017065; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:47:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Gl2aF028521; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA7GkBaF027940 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCs/BRN0u/vPPsPTaoPDAQTm3QcN3yB01HA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HG2DCR8G; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:45:53 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: teddy1@mdx.ac.uk Message-ID: <20021107.104207.-166349.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-6,8-9 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:42:07 -0600 Status: RO I am in the process of adding a page documenting my construction of a dress in which to play Queen Elizabeth at a small local RenFaire. The first installment is up and can be seen at: http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ Look for the page that says 'To Dress A Queen' and follow along with the fun. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 12:23:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26139 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:23:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7HJJNp020144; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7HD1aF013346; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA7HBlaF012568 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWjvByylaxPrsEedNyx1ENMxy9F1T8LHo8Q=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HG2ETB94; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:11:19 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... Message-ID: <20021107.121014.-157511.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-8 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:10:14 -0500 Status: RO I do so love to hear other people's struggles to chose the fabric and design and then construct a new gown. I have pretty much quit making gowns for myself and just wear my old tunics and sideless surcotes and spend my creative juices to dress the dolls. It takes so little fabric and their figures don't change in the middle of construction. Do keep us posted on your updates. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 12:45:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26291 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:45:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Hi5NP022987; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Hi2aF002254; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA7HhQaF001818 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:43:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021107174326.56821.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:43:26 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021107.104207.-166349.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:43:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO I'm sorry but I can't see anything that even remotely says 'to dress a queen'. Where do I find that? I use netscape, I won't diddle with evil IE, could that be the problem? Could you please send the direct link since I cannot find a link anywhere for the life of me? Nicole --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > I am in the process of adding a page documenting my construction of a > dress in which to play Queen Elizabeth at a small local RenFaire. The > first installment is up and can be seen at: > > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ > > Look for the page that says 'To Dress A Queen' and follow along with the > fun. > > Karen ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 13:17:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26518 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:17:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7IF5NP025874; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7IF3aF019718; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7IESaF019309 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.107.1ac93cce (16633) for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:14:13 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <107.1ac93cce.2afc0775@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_107.1ac93cce.2afc0775_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:14:13 EST Status: RO --part1_107.1ac93cce.2afc0775_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/2002 11:47:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ Hmmmmm.. Temporarily UnavailableThe Tripod page you are trying to reach has exceeded its hourly bandwidth limit. The site will be available again in 2 hours! Thank you! Exceeding its hourly bandwidth limit. Shame on you! > > Look for the page that says 'To Dress A Queen' and follow along with the > fun. > Wait....I thought Quentin Crisp died..... [badda bing!] --part1_107.1ac93cce.2afc0775_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/2002 11:47:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes:


http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/
Hmmmmm..

Temporarily UnavailableThe Tripod page you are trying to reach has exceeded its hourly bandwidth limit. The site will be available again in 2 hours! Thank you!



Exceeding its hourly bandwidth limit. Shame on you!



Look for the page that says 'To Dress A Queen' and follow along with the
fun.



Wait....I thought Quentin Crisp died.....

[badda bing!]
--part1_107.1ac93cce.2afc0775_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 14:55:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27215 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:55:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7JqhNP007240; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Jo0cr013911; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA7Jnhcr013728 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCs/BRN0u/vPPOsSIM2Qzjn+hZrFqoVGxiA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HG2PT48M; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:49:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... Message-ID: <20021107.134507.-166349.7.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-11,13-21 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:45:06 -0600 Status: RO Here's the direct link. http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/To%20Dress%20A%20Queen.htm I got a spanking from Tripod as apparently we have been using to much bandwidth. Foo! They just need to get a sense of humor. Karen On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:43:26 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= writes: > I'm sorry but I can't see anything that even remotely says 'to dress > a queen'. > Where do I find that? I use netscape, I won't diddle with evil IE, > could that > be the problem? Could you please send the direct link since I cannot > find a > link anywhere for the life of me? > > Nicole ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 15:41:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27596 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:41:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7KcgNP015984; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:38:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7Ka1i4011975; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7KZ1i4011298 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 31248 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 20:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.195.90]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Nov 2002 20:35:00 -0000 Message-ID: <002301c2869d$2e4a3d80$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <20021030141058.19408.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> <3DC137AE.93F0C156@bigpond.com> <3DC04E6C.412EFA1F@netdefender.com> <4.3.1.2.20021101221655.04c99b30@mail.frys.com> <3DCA6D1C.15007D36@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flying with a Parasol? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:35:16 -0500 Status: RO I am in upstate New York - about the middle of the state, almost exactly 200 miles north of NYC as it is measured in miles on the NYS Thruway. It has snowed about 3 times so far. A lot of upstate shut down yesterday, as the wet snow and ice on the trees (that still have leaves on them) brought down a lot of limbs and power lines. NYC just got rain. Rowena > I'm in NW Montana, although it's warmed up some since then. We're back > to something a little more rational, although still definitely winter. > Blech! > --Sue > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > >--sue, who thinks Puerto Rico sounds mighty fine about now....we've got > > >record cold temps this week--3 degrees above 0 this a.m. (that's > > >farenheit...about 30 degrees below freezing. Not at all sure of what > > >the appropriate metric number would be, but d@mn! it's cold out!) > > > > Where are you? I have a daughter in New York City in college, and she, a > > native-Californian, is about to discover Winter. Of course she will need a > > New-York-Winter costume, as opposed to the San-Francisco-'Winter' costume > > she's been used to all her life. She actually grew up in San Jose, 50 > > miles south of San Francisco, where the weather is much milder than it is > > in San Francisco. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 16:10:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27785 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:10:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7L7pNP018833; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:07:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7L52i4027810; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA7L43i4027283 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 78927 invoked by uid 0); 7 Nov 2002 21:03:53 -0000 Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 21:03:53 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... In-Reply-To: <20021107.134507.-166349.7.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: <20021107160229.I229-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:03:58 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I tried to get to your page (at 20 past 1) and got a message from tripod saying that your hourly bandwidth had been exceeded. I just checked (at 4:03) and got the same message. :( Thought I'd let you know, Drea (who really wants to see the pretty dresses!) On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Here's the direct link. > > > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/To%20Dress%20A%20Queen.htm > > I got a spanking from Tripod as apparently we have been using to much > bandwidth. Foo! They just need to get a sense of humor. > > > Karen > > > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:43:26 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= > writes: > > I'm sorry but I can't see anything that even remotely says 'to dress > > a queen'. > > Where do I find that? I use netscape, I won't diddle with evil IE, > > could that > > be the problem? Could you please send the direct link since I cannot > > find a > > link anywhere for the life of me? > > > > Nicole > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 16:16:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27823 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:16:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7LEnNP019496; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7LD0i4002101; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f151.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7LC8i4001580 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:12:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:12:03 -0800 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:12:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2002 21:12:03.0437 (UTC) FILETIME=[51C341D0:01C286A2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:12:03 -0800 Status: RO I ask because I a working on a web site that will be a >virutal glimpse of the clothiers on Threadneedle St in Renaissance London. ~What a wonderful and fun project!~ >I will have a page devoted to a frippers shop and I was thinking of >creating >a list that I could link to the page for anyone who wanted to post info on >outfits they wanted to get rid of. Old ones, not new creations ~I think that is a fantastic idea. The "goodwill" of costumers...online. I often sell my used costumes with dramatically reduced prices just because I start running out of room. I'm often delighted to see something I remember making years back and when I talk to the new owner I find that it has been on many adventures. That's why my clothes are made to last. ;) ~ Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 16:21:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27859 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:21:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7LIjNP019919; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:18:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA7LG1i4003804; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA7LD8i4002177 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:13:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021107211307.48714.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:13:07 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021107.134507.-166349.7.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:13:07 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Thank you very much, I got it now! :-) ohhh I love dress diaries, so exciting. Nicole --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Here's the direct link. > > > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/To%20Dress%20A%20Queen.htm > > I got a spanking from Tripod as apparently we have been using to much > bandwidth. Foo! They just need to get a sense of humor. > > > Karen ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 19:06:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28965 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:06:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8084NP005371; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA80835j006097; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12002.mail.yahoo.com (web12002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA80725j005666 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:07:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021108000701.16855.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.248] by web12002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 16:07:01 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] second hand clothing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:07:01 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Finally catching up on my list. I still have my first costume and my husbands and his roommates and my housemates. We were all so broke as college students that all I made were t-tunics with gussets and sometimes front-lacing. My own first costume was based on a portrait of the Madonna and child in Boucher's 20,000 years. The underdress was of gold twill doubleknit but it only showed at the edge of the neck and sleeves. The overdress laced up the front as in the portrait and was a medium weight cotton that happened to be the correct shade of blue. Some kind soul in our barony pointed out that wedding gown patterns often have the correct neckline and waist so I got a wedding gown pattern with the same simple lines and neck and waist and stitched it up with back lacing instead of a zipper. When we finally gave up the SCA after the third baby no-one was wearing the simple lower-class garments we were still using so I still have them all. The kids use them for Halloween and nightwear because they're natural fiber and comfortable. I realize the SCA in our area is much more authentic then when I started 25 years ago so I've never bothered passing the clothes on. I'm looking forward to the second-hand shop link and hope you'll keep us posted. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 19:07:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28971 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:07:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA806INP005235; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:06:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA806A5j005298; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA805d5j005028 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCrbjlI90JiovypCnwk2QsrKBvIK0vEle2A=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HG26HRMH; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:05:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... Message-ID: <20021107.180013.-166349.9.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-8,10-21 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:00:12 -0600 Status: RO I have hopefully fixed the bandwidth issues. I think that Tripod has gotten stingier in what they allow for their free sites because I've enver had this issue before that I'm aware of. Pleh. Anyway, all should be able to view the page at their leisure now.....I hope........ Karen On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:03:58 -0500 (EST) Drea Leed writes: > I tried to get to your page (at 20 past 1) and got a message from > tripod > saying that your hourly bandwidth had been exceeded. I just checked > (at > 4:03) and got the same message. :( > > Thought I'd let you know, > > Drea > (who really wants to see the pretty dresses!) > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 19:44:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29220 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:44:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA80k2NP008090; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA80k15j021185; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA80jS5j020953 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip187.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.187]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gA80jInv006849 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:45:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107192137.01f842b0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Forehead cloth/cross clothes In-Reply-To: References: <20021102100451.92238.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> <20021102100451.92238.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:23:56 -0500 Status: RO So, has anyone come across references to cross cloths or forehead cloths into the 18th century? Or seen them in pictures? How late do these things go? I've seen things that looked like some kind of under-cap, and wondered what they were, but darn it all, at the moment I can't remember where I saw them and what period. It does solve one problem for me -- what were 18th c. Scottish Highland women wearing under their kertches? I'd bet anything it was a forehead cloth. You can see something peeking out from under the edge of the kertch in the Henwife picture; her kertch is clearly pinned to it at the crown of her head. -- Mara At 08:24 PM 11/6/2002 +0000, you wrote: >On the basis of 5 minutes looking... We seem to have 3 headcovering items >here. There is the wired coif (earpieces just showing), the tight >forehead cloth, and the loose hood-type item which fastens (or not, in the >case of VISIT_METSU) around the neck. I have a book of Allan Ramsay >portraits which show a number of ladies, always at their best, in either a >wired coif or the loose hood, but both showing hair under them. Both the >old and the sick are expected to need to keep warm and keep their heads >well-wrapped - perhaps that is the function of the tight forehead cloth, >and it is combined as appropriate with the fashion headcovering? > >Just an instant thought > >Jean _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 19:44:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29224 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:44:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA80kINP008109; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA80kG5j021311; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA80jT5j020969 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:45:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip187.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.187]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gA80jInx006849 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:45:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107192432.01f842b0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:26:20 -0500 Status: RO This isn't RenFaire, but this spring we had a Reenactor's Yard Sale in the DC area (well, Maryland). A local reenacting couple held it at their house. There was a decent turnout; we could have had more of one if we'd posted notes at, say, Gettysburg etc. The goods being sold ranged from the Iron Age through Vietnam. I made a little money selling stuff from periods I no longer do, as did a few friends of mine. Not a bad idea, really! I hope they do it again next year. Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 20:21:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29346 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:21:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA81N3NP010492; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA81N05j004406; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA81MM5j004212 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.172.113c2bcc (16781) for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:22:13 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <172.113c2bcc.2afc6bc4@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_172.113c2bcc.2afc6bc4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:22:12 EST Status: RO --part1_172.113c2bcc.2afc6bc4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/02 4:46:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, lindo@radix.net writes: > There was a decent turnout; we could have had more of one if we'd > posted notes at, say, Gettysburg etc So maybe a list from all time periods that also allowed people to announce their "yard sales" would be good? What about the inclusion of costuming books, old fabric staches etc.........do you think it would be too broad to include, tents, banners and all second hand re-enactment gear. Or maybe just broadly textile related? --part1_172.113c2bcc.2afc6bc4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/02 4:46:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, lindo@radix.net writes:


There was a decent turnout; we could have had more of one if we'd
posted notes at, say, Gettysburg etc


So maybe a list from all time periods that also allowed people to announce their "yard sales" would be good?  What about the inclusion of costuming books, old fabric staches etc.........do you think it would be too broad to include, tents, banners and all second hand re-enactment gear.  Or maybe just broadly textile related? --part1_172.113c2bcc.2afc6bc4_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 7 20:38:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29428 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:38:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA81d3NP011491; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA81d25j009457; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA81d05j009428 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from p73-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.73] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 189y6s-00059U-00; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:38:58 +1300 Message-ID: <004901c286c7$99a13cd0$49c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021014091113.V43189-100000@shell.siscom.net> <009201c27402$3fc9edb0$03cdadcb@michaela> <3DAB9CA4.6010207@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] braces & corsets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:38:54 +1300 Status: RO > There was some discussion a while back about metal corsets as > braces for orthopedic treatment. I wore a brace from ages 10 to 16, > and sometimes wonder if my interest in historic corsetry was > partially due to the familiarity of wearing one. Yep, and I expected more of a reaction to Valerie Steele actually finding documented proof that metal corsets *were* prescribed for problems with the torso. Doesn't mean to say the ones we have around were for this use, but that one of the rumours/theories is true. > http://users.netmatters.co.uk/ju90/cylife.htm > is written by a woman who wears a brace as an adult, and modified its > appearance do make it interesting and fashionable to wear. What a > great concept, after so many years of people hiding their differences! Wow, her text on perception of disability is really interesting, and somethign I've had to deal with, though on a less visible and all encompasing way. I've been having to wear wrist and elbow braces fairly constantly this last year, and started to make my own. I may now go one step further and *personalise* my braces. Thanks so much for this, it's given me a fresher more positive (if a kiss my ass;) ) view of what I can do:) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 00:07:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30547 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:07:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8598NP023056; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 22:09:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA85905j012884; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 22:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA858h5j012738 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 22:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCrbjlI90JiovJKXjbE/tBPhluGHJ4GhmFQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HG3PTZBG; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 00:08:12 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021107.230215.-166349.10.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,8-10,12-19 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Victorian-ish Boots Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:02:15 -0600 Status: RO I have found an on line source for boots that seem to be a pretty good version of a Victorian lace-up boot. They are made of leather (uppers, of course) and have a modest heel. The best part is that they come in a wide variety of sizes and are just under $50.00USD. I have received the pair that I ordered and the quality looks good but they seem to run a tad on the small size. They have lots of half sizes and if you are wondering about buying a size or a half size, go with the slightly larger option. Did I mention they also do W and WW? http://www.roamans.com/roamans/product/product.asp?pf_id=19343&dept_id=74 6&rootdept=610&parent_id=742& Not affiliated, just a customer. Happy Shopping! Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 01:31:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA30753 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:31:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA86X3NP026674; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:33:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA86X15j004762; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA86WN5j004587 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:32:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.151.17186309 (4568) for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:32:16 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <151.17186309.2afcb46f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_151.17186309.2afcb46f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:32:15 EST Status: RO --part1_151.17186309.2afcb46f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With that fabric your gown is going to look very nice. Is it something you had, I think it might have taken 4 weeks just to track it down! Lisa --part1_151.17186309.2afcb46f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With that fabric your gown is going to look very nice.  Is it something you had, I think it might have taken 4 weeks just to track it down!

Lisa --part1_151.17186309.2afcb46f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 03:16:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14230 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 03:16:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA88I9NP000169; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:18:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA88I15j028698; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA88Hh5j028563 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:17:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021108081738.4366.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:17:38 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Forehead cloth/cross clothes To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107192137.01f842b0@saltmine.radix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 08:17:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Well, they go from my research at least up to 1715. *G* I might have even seen a 1720s picture, but anything later than that I wouldn't know. Nicole --- Kevin + Mara wrote: > So, has anyone come across references to cross cloths or forehead cloths > into the 18th century? Or seen them in pictures? How late do these things > go? I've seen things that looked like some kind of under-cap, and wondered > what they were, but darn it all, at the moment I can't remember where I saw > them and what period. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 03:27:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25195 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 03:27:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA88TDNP000557; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA88T75j004538; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA88Sc5j004256 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id AAA02936 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:50:07 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211080850.AAA02936@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] braces & corsets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:50:07 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "michaela" wrote: [...] > > http://users.netmatters.co.uk/ju90/cylife.htm > > is written by a woman who wears a brace as an adult, and modified its > > appearance do make it interesting and fashionable to wear. What a > > great concept, after so many years of people hiding their differences! I know at least one local here who wears a plastron brace who recently painted his bright gold. And then added a big sculptural pot leaf on the front (sort of like Superman, only cooler). He says that doctors often try and pretend they just didn't see that...[grin] > Wow, her text on perception of disability is really interesting, and > somethign I've had to deal with, though on a less visible and all > encompasing way. I've been having to wear wrist and elbow braces fairly > constantly this last year, and started to make my own. > > I may now go one step further and *personalise* my braces. I had a pair of wrist braces ages ago (oh, at least 3 or 4 pairs back) that I added huge blinking LEDs onto. They attached onto the straps. And yes, they made mighty cool clubwear. Since I no longer wear the wrist braces during the day, I haven't bothered to do anything with the current pair. However, my finger splints have gotten so many comments that I'm fairly sure I could make money selling them as fashion accessories. They're a slightly different design from the ones on this page: http://www.silverringsplint.com/hyperextension.html Mine are formed of one piece of hammered silver worked spirally (like those spoon rings that were popular during the 1970s). They give the appearance of doubled silver rings. If my hands were still up to doing production silversmithing, I could probably sell these to the teenagers and club kids for a decent amount of money. > Thanks so much for this, it's given me a fresher more positive (if a kiss my > ass;) ) view of what I can do:) Heh. I've been offending people lately with my, "That's right, I'm crippled. Now get over it, I have." attitude. Which means I've also been thumbing my nose at people who say my costume adaptations aren't period. When they quit getting vaccinations and taking antibiotics, I'll take that part seriously. I am _seriously_ tempted to get an extremely dark pair of wire frame specs for Dickens Fair this year and go as a blind musician... Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 03:29:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26738 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 03:29:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA88V1NP000654; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA88V15j005054; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA88Ux5j005043 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:30:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id AAA02960 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:52:28 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211080852.AAA02960@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian-ish Boots Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:52:28 -0800 (PST) Status: RO seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I have found an on line source for boots that seem to be a pretty good > version of a Victorian lace-up boot. They are made of leather (uppers, of > course) and have a modest heel. The best part is that they come in a wide > variety of sizes and are just under $50.00USD. I have received the pair > that I ordered and the quality looks good but they seem to run a tad on > the small size. They have lots of half sizes and if you are wondering > about buying a size or a half size, go with the slightly larger option. > Did I mention they also do W and WW? > > http://www.roamans.com/roamans/product/product.asp?pf_id=19343&dept_id=74 > 6&rootdept=610&parent_id=742& Bugger, the smallest size is US7. Looks like I'm still stuck with my lace-up western boots. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 04:04:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00364 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:04:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8964NP002283; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 02:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA89615j013955; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 02:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA895l5j013885 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 02:05:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-021.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.21]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2921719FC4B for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:05:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DCB7E69.6080409@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb References: <172.113c2bcc.2afc6bc4@aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010709040502080600040502" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:05:45 +0100 Status: RO --------------010709040502080600040502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > So maybe a list from all time periods that also allowed people to > announce their "yard sales" would be good? What about the inclusion > of costuming books, old fabric staches etc.........do you think it > would be too broad to include, tents, banners and all second hand > re-enactment gear. Or maybe just broadly textile related? I think that is very interesting. A place where you can buy second hand pavilions would be nice. New ones are so expensive. But I think that it would also work for new handmade stuf. One list where you can buy everything you need for SCA or reenactment. Maby it is even possible to make someting as eBay, and earn money with it..... Greetings, Deredere --------------010709040502080600040502 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

So maybe a list from all time periods that also allowed people to announce their "yard sales" would be good?  What about the inclusion of costuming books, old fabric staches etc.........do you think it would be too broad to include, tents, banners and all second hand re-enactment gear.  Or maybe just broadly textile related?
I think that is very interesting. A place where you can buy second hand pavilions would be nice. New ones are so expensive.
But I think that it would also work for new handmade stuf. One list where you can buy everything you need for SCA or reenactment.
Maby it is even possible to make someting as eBay, and earn money with it.....

Greetings,
        Deredere
--------------010709040502080600040502-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 08:45:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20167 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 08:45:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Dl9NP011507; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 06:47:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Dl15j019087; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 06:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Dk75j018829 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 06:46:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m158.in-tch.com [216.166.191.158]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA8DUcf29633 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 06:30:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DCBC02D.3A1F20E2@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Begins..... References: <20021107160229.I229-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:46:21 -0700 Status: RO I just tried it (fairly early Friday a.m.), and didn't have any problems. Karen, I sure wish I lived near enough to you to sneak over and bump you off for that *amazing* brocade! Drooooooool! --sue Drea Leed wrote: > > I tried to get to your page (at 20 past 1) and got a message from tripod > saying that your hourly bandwidth had been exceeded. I just checked (at > 4:03) and got the same message. :( > > Thought I'd let you know, > > Drea > (who really wants to see the pretty dresses!) > > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > > Here's the direct link. > > > > > > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/To%20Dress%20A%20Queen.htm > > > > I got a spanking from Tripod as apparently we have been using to much > > bandwidth. Foo! They just need to get a sense of humor. > > > > > > Karen > > > > > > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:43:26 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= > > writes: > > > I'm sorry but I can't see anything that even remotely says 'to dress > > > a queen'. > > > Where do I find that? I use netscape, I won't diddle with evil IE, > > > could that > > > be the problem? Could you please send the direct link since I cannot > > > find a > > > link anywhere for the life of me? > > > > > > Nicole > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > Visit www.juno.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 08:48:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20195 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 08:48:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Do3NP011666; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 06:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Do15j019999; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 06:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8DnQ5j019807 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 06:49:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m158.in-tch.com [216.166.191.158]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA8DXvf00628 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 06:33:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DCBC0F4.8CA0260@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] braces & corsets References: <20021014091113.V43189-100000@shell.siscom.net> <009201c27402$3fc9edb0$03cdadcb@michaela> <3DAB9CA4.6010207@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:49:40 -0700 Status: RO I'm laughing, not from your interesting info, but from the mental picture I was getting from the thread topic....I took it to be regarding corsets and braces/_suspenders_, and couldn't quite picture it, but figured it kinda described the various interests of this list pretty darn good! --Sue, in dark, potentially snowy Montana Carol Kocian wrote: > > There was some discussion a while back about metal corsets as > braces for orthopedic treatment. I wore a brace from ages 10 to 16, > and sometimes wonder if my interest in historic corsetry was > partially due to the familiarity of wearing one. > > Someone mentioned a scoliosis brace seeming like a torture > device. The only one that looks that way is the Charleston Bend > brace, which bends the body in the opposite direction of the curve. > It's only worn at night for treatment, since the extent of the > bending limits mobility. Otherwise braces fit the shape of the body, > or the shape that the body is supposed to be. > > This web page > > http://users.netmatters.co.uk/ju90/cylife.htm > > is written by a woman who wears a brace as an adult, and modified its > appearance do make it interesting and fashionable to wear. What a > great concept, after so many years of people hiding their differences! > > I found the page while surfing around after I saw the movie > Frida. I really enjoyed the art direction, how her paintings melted > in and out of scenes. And, of course, there are some nice early & > mid 20thC costumes. :-) > > -Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 09:20:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20349 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:20:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8ELZNP013287; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:21:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8ELW5j029173; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:21:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8EIS5j028087 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:18:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef2.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.242]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5FA5F263FAB for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:18:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000e01c28731$e6c36eb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] the saga begins Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:19:51 +0100 Status: RO Jubii, it finally worked for me to se your projekt. It looks gorgeous, cant wait to follow your diary! Wonderfull brocade, where did you find that? It is silk yes? Sumptious................ Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 09:38:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20417 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:38:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Ee3NP014482; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Ee05j004873; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Edb5j004753 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:38:30 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AC653949011E; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:38:29 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:38:29 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Victorian-ish Boots Message-ID: <001201c28734$c0d5ee50$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021107.230215.-166349.10.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 08:40:14 -0600 Status: RO I just checked out those boots from Roamans, and they look very good, especially at that price. One word of warning--at the top of the laces, they have hooks insteads of grommets. The hooks will catch on your petticoats and tear them. I speak from experience. One place I have found similar boots in smaller sizes is the thrift store. Since I'm looking for 9's and 10's, it seems to me they always have size 5's there. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of seamstrix@juno.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:02 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Victorian-ish Boots I have found an on line source for boots that seem to be a pretty good version of a Victorian lace-up boot. They are made of leather (uppers, of course) and have a modest heel. The best part is that they come in a wide variety of sizes and are just under $50.00USD. I have received the pair that I ordered and the quality looks good but they seem to run a tad on the small size. They have lots of half sizes and if you are wondering about buying a size or a half size, go with the slightly larger option. Did I mention they also do W and WW? http://www.roamans.com/roamans/product/product.asp?pf_id=19343&dept_id=7 4 6&rootdept=610&parent_id=742& Not affiliated, just a customer. Happy Shopping! Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 11:04:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20966 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:04:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8G5HNP021839; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:05:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8G5FcH010217; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:05:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA8G4ScH009780 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:04:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oj6YQ5EhJohxYys3zGpuGMY="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HG4VCW3D; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:04:04 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] braces & corsets Message-ID: <20021108.080403.-211469.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4,6-13,19-20,25-26,31-32 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:50:14 +0000 Status: RO > Heh. I've been offending people lately with my, "That's right, I'm > crippled. Now get over it, I have." attitude. Which means I've also been > thumbing my nose at people who say my costume adaptations aren't period. When > they quit getting vaccinations and taking antibiotics, I'll take that part > seriously. > > I am _seriously_ tempted to get an extremely dark pair of wire frame > specs for Dickens Fair this year and go as a blind musician... > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert Go get 'em! :D I've run into this too from time to time (rheumatoid arthritis). If I cut my long skirts shorter in the front and longer in the back, it means I can get up and walk without tripping (and, incidentally, the shirt has a lovely flow to it). If my sleeves tend towards more fitting than not, it means I can use my arms better. If my shoes have orthotics, so? What business is it of theirs?? I teach a newcomer's class to the SCA on a fairly regular basis. I am always telling my students not to follow certain things I do because I am disabled, but also make it clear that there are things they can do and should if they have mobility issues and give them ideas for adaptations. And fer Pete's sake, wear your glasses..... :) Along the same line, this last month I proposed and my shire voted for monies for a portable elevated toilet seat. Privately owned sites in the U.S. are not required to be ADA compliant, and sometimes the most basic of needs are met with inaccessible facilities. So we got one and it now lives in the Shire inventory to be used for indoor events. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 11:35:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21223 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:35:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Ga5NP024587; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Ga1cH025215; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8GZ8cH024786 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:35:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.115.1a4b2d12 (25914) for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:34:56 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <115.1a4b2d12.2afd41b0@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_115.1a4b2d12.2afd41b0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:34:56 EST Status: RO --part1_115.1a4b2d12.2afd41b0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 1:07:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > One list where you can buy everything you need for SCA or reenactment. > Maby it is even possible to make someting as eBay, and earn money with > it..... > Oh, so maybe I should actually BE a fripper! After speaking with a few theatrical costume designers I have pretty much decided to make a list with the intention of promoting the circulation of second hand theatrical, re-enactment garments and related props such as tents and banners. My friend mentioned that after a show they often advertise a sale and places like the San Francisco Opera House also do the same so it might be nice for some of us to know about these things and possibly have a place to get rid of our old stuff too. It is not something I wish to spend much time on or make money from, but it may be a useful service and if the list is not of any use then it can just die its natural death, like old clothes themselves. I will put something to gether by the end of this month and send out invitations to theatrical groups, living history groups and costume guilds. I am considering also advising commercial costume shops of the list but I am interested in keeping this list to historical/theatrical CLOTHING, not cheap party frocks, but such shops might be potential buyers of the things for sale. Thanks for you feedback. Lisa --part1_115.1a4b2d12.2afd41b0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 1:07:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes:


One list where you can buy everything you need for SCA or reenactment.
Maby it is even possible to make someting as eBay, and earn money with it.....


Oh, so maybe I should actually BE a fripper!  After speaking with a few theatrical costume designers I have pretty much decided to make a list with the intention of promoting the circulation of second hand theatrical, re-enactment garments and related props such as tents and banners.  My friend mentioned that after a show they often advertise a sale and places like the San Francisco Opera House also do the same so it might be nice for some of us to know about these things and possibly have a place to get rid of our old stuff too.  It is not something I wish to spend much time on or make money from, but it may be a useful service and if the list is not of any use then it can just die its natural death, like old clothes themselves.  I will put something to gether by the end of this month and send out invitations to theatrical groups, living history groups and costume guilds.  I am considering also advising commercial costume shops of the list but I am ! interested in keeping this list to historical/theatrical CLOTHING, not cheap party frocks, but such shops might be potential buyers of the things for sale. 

Thanks for you feedback.

Lisa --part1_115.1a4b2d12.2afd41b0_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 11:44:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21308 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:44:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Gk3NP025503; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Gk2cH000534; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8GjNcH000122 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:45:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.11c.1a161890 (25305) for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:45:14 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <11c.1a161890.2afd441a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian-ish Boots To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_11c.1a161890.2afd441a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:45:14 EST Status: RO --part1_11c.1a161890.2afd441a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/02 9:09:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: > I have found an on line source for boots that seem to be a pretty good > version of a Victorian lace-up boot. They are made of leather (uppers, of > course) and have a modest heel. The best part is that they come in a wide > variety of sizes and are just under $50.00USD. I have received the pair > that I ordered and the quality looks good but they seem to run a tad on > the small size. They have lots of half sizes and if you are wondering > about buying a size or a half size, go with the slightly larger option. > Did I mention they also do W and WW? > A word of warning. Roamans, (Like their Parent Company Lane Bryant) is notorious for listing items that are sold out. The other problem I have with them is that, although they have W and WW sizes, the shanks on the boots generally aren't any larger than anything you can buy in the regular stores. So if you have large calves they never fit right. I have just completed my annual fall ritual of attempting to buy $500.00 worth of boots and shoes, to find out that only $150.00 were available and that neither pair fit above my ankles. Kit --part1_11c.1a161890.2afd441a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/02 9:09:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes:


I have found an on line source for boots that seem to be a pretty good
version of a Victorian lace-up boot. They are made of leather (uppers, of
course) and have a modest heel. The best part is that they come in a wide
variety of sizes and are just under $50.00USD. I have received the pair
that I ordered and the quality looks good but they seem to run a tad on
the small size. They have lots of half sizes and if you are wondering
about buying a size or a half size, go with the slightly larger option.
Did I mention they also do W and WW?


A word of warning.  Roamans, (Like their Parent Company Lane Bryant) is notorious for listing items that are sold out.  The other problem I have with them is that, although they have W and WW sizes, the shanks on the boots generally aren't any larger than anything you can buy in the regular stores.  So if you have large calves they never fit right.  I have just completed my annual fall ritual of attempting to buy $500.00 worth of boots and shoes, to find out that only $150.00 were available and that neither pair fit above my ankles.

Kit
 --part1_11c.1a161890.2afd441a_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 11:45:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21315 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:45:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Gl2NP025563; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Gl1cH001033; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8GklcH000870 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:46:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.176.117c1bf9 (25305) for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:46:39 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <176.117c1bf9.2afd446f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian-ish Boots To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_176.117c1bf9.2afd446f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:46:39 EST Status: RO --part1_176.117c1bf9.2afd446f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 6:40:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, kbaird@cableone.net writes: > One place I have found similar boots in smaller sizes is the thrift > store. Since I'm looking for 9's and 10's, it seems to me they always > have size 5's there. Kim, Check E-Bay. I am always looking for 8's and 9's. And almost always get outbid on the 8's. But the 9's and 10's I generally have pretty good luck with. Kit --part1_176.117c1bf9.2afd446f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 6:40:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, kbaird@cableone.net writes:


One place I have found similar boots in smaller sizes is the thrift
store. Since I'm looking for 9's and 10's, it seems to me they always
have size 5's there.


Kim,

Check E-Bay.  I am always looking for 8's and 9's.  And almost always get outbid on the 8's.  But the 9's and 10's I generally have pretty good luck with.

Kit --part1_176.117c1bf9.2afd446f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 12:42:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22252 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:42:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8HhBNP001137; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Hh3cH001581; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8HgCcH001079 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8IkEYv004474 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:46:14 -0800 Message-ID: <3DCBF81A.4020207@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20021030141058.19408.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> <3DC137AE.93F0C156@bigpond.com> <3DC04E6C.412EFA1F@netdefender.com> <4.3.1.2.20021101221655.04c99b30@mail.frys.com> <3DCA6D1C.15007D36@in-tch.com> <002301c2869d$2e4a3d80$01fea8c0@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:44:58 -0800 Status: RO To Ya'll- Yesterday Mountain View (b/t San Francisco and San Jose) had its Centennial Celebration. They needed costumed volunteers to be local period color and hand out commemorative items. Well, it wasn't snowing or even very cold, but, it was our first winter storm and it just rained buckets and buckets!! Now, of course, my hem was all the way to the ground with a slight train (ha-ha a pun, the celebration was at their new *train* station) and it got absolutely soaked. Where it wicked up the back, it dried to a slight stain, which I'm hoping will hand wash out, once the weather gets dry enough to use the clothes line again. Now, my question: did women in "the old days" have rainy weather outfits in which the hems were slightly off the ground? Thanks for listening to my tale of woe, Theresa Eacker (massive pruning ensues) Rowena wrote: > I am in upstate New York - > It has snowed about 3 times so far. A lot of upstate shut down yesterday, > as the wet snow and ice on the trees (that still have leaves on them) > brought down a lot of limbs and power lines. NYC just got rain. > Rowena > > >>I'm in NW Montana, although it's warmed up some since then. We're back >>to something a little more rational, although still definitely winter. >>Blech! >>--Sue >>>>--sue, who thinks Puerto Rico sounds mighty fine about now....we've got >>>>record cold temps this week--3 degrees above 0 this a.m. (that's >>>>farenheit...about 30 degrees below freezing. Not at all sure of what >>>>the appropriate metric number would be, but d@mn! it's cold out!) >>>> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 13:35:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22839 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:35:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Ib4NP006598; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Ib1cH001263; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA8IalcH001125 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:36:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021108183647.33443.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:36:47 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DCBF81A.4020207@misc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:36:47 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Gosh how this sounds like English re-enactment.... it rained EVERY time we did a re-enactment this year. *pfooie* Well, regarding your question, which period? which level of society? I believe that bad weather answers have a lot to do with who you are supposed to be and when. Nicole --- Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Ya'll- > > Yesterday Mountain View (b/t San Francisco and San Jose) had its > Centennial Celebration. They needed costumed volunteers to be local > period color and hand out commemorative items. Well, it wasn't snowing > or even very cold, but, it was our first winter storm and it just rained > buckets and buckets!! Now, of course, my hem was all the way to the > ground with a slight train (ha-ha a pun, the celebration was at their > new *train* station) and it got absolutely soaked. Where it wicked up > the back, it dried to a slight stain, which I'm hoping will hand wash > out, once the weather gets dry enough to use the clothes line again. > Now, my question: did women in "the old days" have rainy weather outfits > in which the hems were slightly off the ground? > > Thanks for listening to my tale of woe, > > Theresa Eacker > (massive pruning ensues) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 13:52:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22941 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:52:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Iq5NP007920; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:52:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Iq1cH008999; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsite.netdefender.net ([209.8.8.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Ip0cH008481 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from netdefender.com (unverified [63.220.97.2]) by mailsite.netdefender.net (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:27:54 -0500 Message-ID: <3DCC07A6.EE8AC30C@netdefender.com> From: Jen Organization: NetDefender, LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian-ish Boots References: <176.117c1bf9.2afd446f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jen@netdefender.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:51:17 -0500 Status: RO After however-many years of looking for Victorian-esque boots, I recently ordered a pair of Grishko "Hungarian" boots with my Year-End bonus. (http://www.grishko.com/charactershoes.htm -- they're the lower left-hand picture.) They aren't cheap, and I don't have them yet as they are a special-order/4-6 week delivery item and I just ordered them last week, but I'd be happy to provide more info if anyone's interested. --jen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 14:31:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23217 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:31:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8JW2NP011711; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8JW0cH029185; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8JVmcH029057 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:31:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrwbc58 ([204.127.198.47]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021108193142.HZQE13074.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:31:42 +0000 Received: from [205.225.207.97] by rwcrwbc58; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:31:42 +0000 From: mabse@attbi.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: bWFic2VAYXR0YmkuY29t Message-Id: <20021108193142.HZQE13074.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:31:42 +0000 Status: RO I have wondered about this myself. Not what people in mountain view would do (I would imagine that the time period is at most mid 1800's. Things wouldn't have been organized any longer than that in california.)but what you guys in the areas with weather do. I mean, you spend hours making yourself these great costumes out of fabulous fabrics and then have to cover them up most of the time. I realize that this shows my inability to understand the whole snow thing or even rain more than a couple of times a year, but it has always puzzled me. And, I never understood the thread about capes. So are you saying that people didn't wear capes ever? I am doing Elizabethan now, should I forgo the cape? It is not a real issue right now because I count on menopause keeping me warm no matter what the weather. but I can assure you that if this goes on too much longer I won't. By the way, I am reading a really good book right now, The Other Bolyn Sister. It is a great costume book. She talks about what clothing meant in that time. How Queen Kathrine set the fashion and then when Anne Boyln (how do you spell that) came into favor everybody started wearing french hoods and then Anne knew she was in trouble when everybody started wearing the headwear that Jane Seymore favored. I highly recommend it. Flying through almost hurricane strength winds last night I was much more concerned about Anne's pregnancies than I was about if the plane was going to be able to land and that is saying a lot. Her description of Kathrine's dress at her divorce hearing was wonderful. Which gets back to the previous topic because she used fur for lining. You may have to cover your costumes, but I couldn't even consider using fur, wool or even silk. maryann who is in a rainy sacramento > Gosh how this sounds like English re-enactment.... it rained EVERY time we did > a re-enactment this year. *pfooie* > Well, regarding your question, which period? which level of society? I believe > that bad weather answers have a lot to do with who you are supposed to be and > when. > > Nicole > > --- Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Ya'll- > > > > Yesterday Mountain View (b/t San Francisco and San Jose) had its > > Centennial Celebration. They needed costumed volunteers to be local > > period color and hand out commemorative items. Well, it wasn't snowing > > or even very cold, but, it was our first winter storm and it just rained > > buckets and buckets!! Now, of course, my hem was all the way to the > > ground with a slight train (ha-ha a pun, the celebration was at their > > new *train* station) and it got absolutely soaked. Where it wicked up > > the back, it dried to a slight stain, which I'm hoping will hand wash > > out, once the weather gets dry enough to use the clothes line again. > > Now, my question: did women in "the old days" have rainy weather outfits > > in which the hems were slightly off the ground? > > > > Thanks for listening to my tale of woe, > > > > Theresa Eacker > > (massive pruning ensues) > > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 15:51:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23966 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:51:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Kq8NP018467; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Kq1cH007999; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8KprcH007918 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:51:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8LtuYv005512 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:55:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3DCC248F.3010902@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) References: <20021108183647.33443.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:54:39 -0800 Status: RO To Nicole- I was doing in early 1890's walking suit, I guess I had a middle-class look so I wouldn't have had some poor peon trundling behind me to hold up the skirt. This was the first time I've done any portrayal in the rain, and, if I have anything to say about it, THE LAST TIME!! Theresa Eacker N Kipar wrote: > Gosh how this sounds like English re-enactment.... it rained EVERY time we did > a re-enactment this year. *pfooie* > Well, regarding your question, which period? which level of society? I believe > that bad weather answers have a lot to do with who you are supposed to be and > when. > > Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 16:54:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24346 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:54:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8LtDNP024198; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:55:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8LtAcH009253; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:55:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8LsacH008953 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:54:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18AH5E-0000QN-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:54:32 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) References: <3DCBF81A.4020207@misc.com> <20021108183647.33443.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20021108183647.33443.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:23:32 +0000 Status: RO N Kipar wrote >Gosh how this sounds like English re-enactment.... it rained EVERY time we did >a re-enactment this year. *pfooie* It did, oh yes, it did! >Well, regarding your question, which period? which level of society? I believe >that bad weather answers have a lot to do with who you are supposed to be and >when. > >Nicole > Indeed - those who could afford clothing that would be seriously spoiled by rain and mud could also afford not to go out in it. Jean > --- Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Ya'll- >> >> Yesterday Mountain View (b/t San Francisco and San Jose) had its >> Centennial Celebration. They needed costumed volunteers to be local >> period color and hand out commemorative items. Well, it wasn't snowing >> or even very cold, but, it was our first winter storm and it just rained >> buckets and buckets!! Now, of course, my hem was all the way to the >> ground with a slight train (ha-ha a pun, the celebration was at their >> new *train* station) and it got absolutely soaked. Where it wicked up >> the back, it dried to a slight stain, which I'm hoping will hand wash >> out, once the weather gets dry enough to use the clothes line again. >> Now, my question: did women in "the old days" have rainy weather outfits >> in which the hems were slightly off the ground? >> >> Thanks for listening to my tale of woe, >> >> Theresa Eacker >> (massive pruning ensues) > > >===== >Nicole Kipar M.A. >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: nicole@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 16:54:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24350 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:54:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Lu3NP024267; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Lu2cH009667; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8LsbcH008973 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:54:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18AH5I-0000TE-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:54:36 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Forehead cloth/cross clothes References: <20021102100451.92238.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> <20021102100451.92238.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021107192137.01f842b0@saltmine.radix.net> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107192137.01f842b0@saltmine.radix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:18:47 +0000 Status: RO What is a kertch? This is interesting because (as I said elsewhere) I pin my wimple to my headscarf, to stop it blowing back. Jean Kevin + Mara wrote >So, has anyone come across references to cross cloths or forehead >cloths into the 18th century? Or seen them in pictures? How late do >these things go? I've seen things that looked like some kind of >under-cap, and wondered what they were, but darn it all, at the moment >I can't remember where I saw them and what period. > >It does solve one problem for me -- what were 18th c. Scottish Highland >women wearing under their kertches? I'd bet anything it was a forehead >cloth. You can see something peeking out from under the edge of the >kertch in the Henwife picture; her kertch is clearly pinned to it at >the crown of her head. > >-- Mara > > >At 08:24 PM 11/6/2002 +0000, you wrote: >>On the basis of 5 minutes looking... We seem to have 3 headcovering >>items here. There is the wired coif (earpieces just showing), the >>tight forehead cloth, and the loose hood-type item which fastens (or >>not, in the case of VISIT_METSU) around the neck. I have a book of >>Allan Ramsay portraits which show a number of ladies, always at their >>best, in either a wired coif or the loose hood, but both showing hair >>under them. Both the old and the sick are expected to need to keep >>warm and keep their heads well-wrapped - perhaps that is the function >>of the tight forehead cloth, and it is combined as appropriate with >>the fashion headcovering? >> >>Just an instant thought >> >>Jean > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 17:28:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24565 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:28:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8MTXNP027717; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8MTVcH027067; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:29:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8MSacJ026559 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.125.228]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5A00GFC3RMNH@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:28:35 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) In-reply-to: <3DCC248F.3010902@misc.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021108133921.00ca7630@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20021108183647.33443.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:43:46 -0800 Status: RO >I was doing in early 1890's walking suit, I guess I had a middle-class >look so I wouldn't have had some poor peon trundling behind me to hold up >the skirt. This was the first time I've done any portrayal in the rain, >and, if I have anything to say about it, THE LAST TIME!! I've seen Charles Dana Gibson pictures from the early 1900s, where the women are doing what looks like grabbing the middle of the back of their skirts in a handfull, to hold it out of the way of walking. The pictures show them doing this in preference to grabbing the skirt in front anywhere, tho there's one picture showing a construction site where they even do grab their skirts in front as they walk on boards over construction trenches. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 17:29:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24571 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:29:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8MT3NP027673; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8MT1cH026798; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8MSacH026559 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.125.228]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5A00GFC3RMNH@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:28:35 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) In-reply-to: <20021108193142.HZQE13074.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021108132342.00ca7db0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:38:16 -0800 Status: RO >(I >would imagine that the time period is at most mid 1800's. Things wouldn't >have >been organized any longer than that in California.) Things started getting 'organized' in California in the very late 1700s. The cities of San Francisco and San Jose were founded in the 1770s, as I recall. (But I grew up in California, and we had to learn that in school.) So there were women in California dealing with our weather from at least the early 1800s, probably back as far as the late 1700s. And, I never understood the thread about capes. So are you saying that people >didn't wear capes ever? I am doing Elizabethan now, should I forgo the >cape? It's not that 'they' didn't wear outerwear garments, it's just that many of us who do 'their' periods don't wear them because we live in places with climates other than the one in Northern Europe. > maryann who is in a rainy sacramento For those of you not living in Northern California, we got winds up to 60 miles per hour last night, with our first real rainstorm of the year. We got a substantial percentage of our annual rainfall last night. I'm just speculating, but I assume that in any period, previous to the modern one, any women living in California would want to stay dry if she had to go out in the rain, and that she would have had to deal with a muddy hem if her street wasn't paved, assuming she even had a street. This would necessitate wearing either something waterproof or something wool, and we have had wool in California as long as we have had Europeans. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 18:08:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24750 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:08:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8NA9NP001979; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:10:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8NA4cH017740; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA8N96cH017209 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:09:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021108230906.74643.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:09:06 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:09:06 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Jean Waddie wrote: > > Indeed - those who could afford clothing that would be seriously spoiled > by rain and mud could also afford not to go out in it. Which brings me straight back to the very serious pondering ofthe question if I am going to jack in re-enactment or give it another year's chance. Right now I am for 'forget it all I really had it!' but then again, all those thousands and thousands of pounds of gear... *sigh* Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues while still loving one's costumes? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 18:22:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24821 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:22:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8NOCNP002900; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8NOBcH024052; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8NM9cH023133 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:22:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip184.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.184]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gA8NM6np018342 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:22:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108181822.01f15ba8@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb In-Reply-To: <172.113c2bcc.2afc6bc4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_692123751==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:19:14 -0500 Status: RO --=====================_692123751==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:22 PM 11/7/2002 -0500, you wrote: >So maybe a list from all time periods that also allowed people to announce >their "yard sales" would be good? What about the inclusion of costuming >books, old fabric staches etc.........do you think it would be too broad >to include, tents, banners and all second hand re-enactment gear. Or >maybe just broadly textile related? Well, maybe you could do what one of the fiber arts sites does -- host a bulletin board where people can post big, cumbersome stuff like tents etc.? -- Mara --=====================_692123751==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 08:22 PM 11/7/2002 -0500, you wrote:
So maybe a list from all time periods that also allowed people to announce their "yard sales" would be good?  What about the inclusion of costuming books, old fabric staches etc.........do you think it would be too broad to include, tents, banners and all second hand re-enactment gear.  Or maybe just broadly textile related?

Well, maybe you could do what one of the fiber arts sites does -- host a bulletin board where people can post big, cumbersome stuff like tents etc.?

-- Mara --=====================_692123751==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 18:25:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24833 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:25:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8NK5NP002580; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8NK3cH022187; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8NJ4cH021794 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.125.228]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5A00B8R63RAJ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:19:03 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) In-reply-to: <20021108230906.74643.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021108151828.00d115b0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:18:48 -0800 Status: RO > > Indeed - those who could afford clothing that would be seriously spoiled > > by rain and mud could also afford not to go out in it. > >Which brings me straight back to the very serious pondering ofthe question >if I >am going to jack in re-enactment or give it another year's chance. Right now I >am for 'forget it all I really had it!' but then again, all those >thousands and >thousands of pounds of gear... *sigh* > >Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues >while still loving one's costumes? Happens all the time. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 18:43:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24989 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:43:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Nh6NP004142; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Nh3cH002550; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA8Ng6cH002089 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from ANALYSIS.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.86]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id gA8Nfmu03205 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:41:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021108153309.00a6ba28@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021108151828.00d115b0@mail.frys.com> References: <20021108230906.74643.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_27172406==_.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:34:03 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_27172406==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:18 PM 11/8/2002 -0800, you wrote: >> > Indeed - those who could afford clothing that would be seriously spoiled >> > by rain and mud could also afford not to go out in it. >> >>Which brings me straight back to the very serious pondering ofthe >>question if I >>am going to jack in re-enactment or give it another year's chance. Right >>now I >>am for 'forget it all I really had it!' but then again, all those >>thousands and >>thousands of pounds of gear... *sigh* >> >>Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues >>while still loving one's costumes? Daily, if not hourly >; ) Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_27172406==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:18 PM 11/8/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> Indeed - those who could afford clothing that would be seriously spoiled
> by rain and mud could also afford not to go out in it.

Which brings me straight back to the very serious pondering ofthe question if I
am going to jack in re-enactment or give it another year's chance. Right now I
am for 'forget it all I really had it!' but then again, all those thousands and
thousands of pounds of gear... *sigh*

Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues
while still loving one's costumes?


Daily, if not hourly >; )

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis

--=====================_27172406==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 19:01:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25074 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:01:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA903NNP005545; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:03:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9036cH010559; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from lutetium (lutetium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA902ZcH010315 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:02:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-23-11.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.23.11] helo=dan) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AJ58-0007N6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 00:02:34 +0000 Message-ID: <009101c28783$d11e88e0$0b1723d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <3DCBF81A.4020207@misc.com> <20021108183647.33443.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:06:13 -0000 Status: RO Jean wrote > Indeed - those who could afford clothing that would be seriously spoiled > by rain and mud could also afford not to go out in it. > I think that that is only partially so; if you are thinking in terms of the 'idle rich' then that may be accurate. But many of the rich weren't idle, and time, tide and the Armada were not minded to call the whole thing off so that the Lord Admiral didn't spoil his clothes. Nor would Elizabeth have abandoned her claim to possess the heart and stomach of a king of England at Tilbury for fear of getting wet, and on a rather less fraught occasion Raleigh really did blow a small fortune when he threw down his cloak for her to walk on. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 19:03:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25081 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:03:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9054NP005677; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9051cH011333; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA904kcH011222 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:04:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.175] (pm5-175.eos.net [205.133.149.175]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11235 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:04:43 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021108082904.4481.91832.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] fashion braces Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:02:29 -0500 Status: RO Lee M Thompson-Herbert wrote: > Heh. I've been offending people lately with my, "That's right, I'm crippled. > Now get over it, I have." attitude. Which means I've also been thumbing my > nose at people who say my costume adaptations aren't period. When they quit > getting vaccinations and taking antibiotics, I'll take that part seriously. Why do you feel the need to offend anyone? I, for one, resent people dressing for the express purpose of offending me. It's . . . offensive. Which I thought was not a good thing to be. I understand people not wanting to have to hide their braces or wheelchair or prosthetics, etc., that's just plain common sense. And so is the urge to decorate or custom make such items -- something we should see more of! But to take a "happy to offend you" attitude with everyone, when only a minority of people are stupid or crass enough to be offended by whatever someone else needs to stay healthy/active/alive, is not productive for anyone. Nor would it be if the majority of people were stupid or crass. And if people are nasty about other people's clothing not being authentic because it has to accommodate special foundation garments, wheelchairs, crutches, or anything of the type -- well, they have the wrong priorities, don't they? So why worry about them? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 19:06:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25089 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:06:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9089NP005912; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9085Sp012539; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:08:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9077cH012089 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-23-11.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.23.11] helo=dan) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AJ9W-0002Is-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 00:07:06 +0000 Message-ID: <009b01c28784$72f225a0$0b1723d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Half price Vintage Vogue patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:10:45 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, The Vogue pattern website is offering half-price on their Vintage (and other) patterns at: http://www.voguepatterns.com/ and I've just acquired the one for the 1931 bias cut evening dress which I have long yearned for. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 19:15:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25119 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:15:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA90H3NP006514; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:17:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA90H2Sp015914; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA90GgSp015774 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-23-11.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.23.11] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AJIn-0005EM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 00:16:41 +0000 Message-ID: <00ab01c28785$c9cf4780$0b1723d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion braces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:20:20 -0000 Status: RO Gail wrote: > Lee M Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > > Heh. I've been offending people lately with my, "That's right, I'm crippled. > > Now get over it, I have." attitude. Which means I've also been thumbing my > > nose at people who say my costume adaptations aren't period. When they quit > > getting vaccinations and taking antibiotics, I'll take that part seriously. > > Why do you feel the need to offend anyone? I, for one, resent people > dressing for the express purpose of offending me. It's . . . offensive. Actually, Lee never suggested that she felt the need to offend anyone, much less that she dressed for the express purpose of offending anyone. You have made an entirely unjustified inference from her observations in a manner which I, for one, find ... offensive. Stevie Gamble _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 20:43:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25427 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:43:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA91j6NP011345; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:45:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA91j1Sp013565; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12001.mail.yahoo.com (web12001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA91iQSp013401 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:44:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021109014426.87941.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.230] by web12001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:44:26 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:44:26 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Actually Nicole, I never got tired of re-enacting because the babies came and I ran out of time. I do still costume and make my husband take me out to really fancy restuarants, I volunteer to help costume the madrigals at the local high school (where I get to sew the costumes and then not have to store them and the high school students are closer to pattern size) and I volunteer at the local museum to help with the reproduction clothing department. This all keeps me hopping and I get to do lots of different time periods. There is also a local theatre group that I could costume if I wanted but my need for authenticity doesn't match their desire for fast and dirty, close is good enough, and it only has to hold together for 4 performances. How does everyone size up a pattern that is several sizes too small? Some of the patterns I bought years ago are single size reproductions of original patterns and are as much as 10 inches to small around the bust. Unfortunately the cut is rather complicated so I can't just split the pattern pieces horizontally and vertically and add inches that way. I'm also working around a DD so I'm relatively top-heavy. Do I size the pattern up to my general size and then alter for the bust? One of the Wisconsin Historical patterns suggests adding 1/8 inch around each pattern piece for each size you want to go up. Does that sound like a good idea? Suggestions welcome. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 21:50:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25658 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:50:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA92q1NP014542; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA92q0Sp000288; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA92pTSp000131 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:51:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.c8.2fdcdad6 (4196) for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:51:12 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_c8.2fdcdad6.2afdd220_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:51:12 EST Status: RO --part1_c8.2fdcdad6.2afdd220_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 4:56:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, lindo@radix.net writes: > Well, maybe you could do what one of the fiber arts sites does -- host a > bulletin board where people can post big, cumbersome stuff like tents etc.? > Yes, a bulletin board is better suited to this. I am somewhat new to who offers what. Which fiber site are you referring to so I can see who provides the service? Or can you suggest any well regarded bulletin board providers? I don't think anyone wants daily deliverys of what's for sale messages, but a place to quickly see what might be listed. Thanks for the suggestion. Lisa --part1_c8.2fdcdad6.2afdd220_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 4:56:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, lindo@radix.net writes:


Well, maybe you could do what one of the fiber arts sites does -- host a bulletin board where people can post big, cumbersome stuff like tents etc.?


Yes, a bulletin board is better suited to this.  I am somewhat new to who offers what.  Which fiber site are you referring to so I can see who provides the service?  Or can you suggest any well regarded bulletin board providers?  I don't think anyone wants daily deliverys of what's for sale messages, but a place to quickly see what might be listed.  Thanks for the suggestion.

Lisa --part1_c8.2fdcdad6.2afdd220_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 21:55:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25681 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:55:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA92v1NP014774; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA92v0Sp001597; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA92u0Sp001305 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWlX8GhMB1TPWv/DApC6S0ALwgNP/upWbPA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HG52MVGR; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:55:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) Message-ID: <20021108.215425.-380065.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-7 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:54:24 -0500 Status: RO I don't know if the ladies in the olden days had shorter skirts for rain or not, but please don't let the stain set in until you can use your clothes line. Even if you have to hang it over the shower rod, you should wash it as soon after it was wet as possible. It is best if you can wash it before it ever dries but that is usually not possible. Just get it soaking now so you might get the stain out. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 22:18:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25746 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:18:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93K3NP015920; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93K0Sp007347; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93JESp007155 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:19:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.125.228]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5A00BXXH806O@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:19:14 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion braces In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021108185937.04cc3100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20021108082904.4481.91832.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:06:10 -0800 Status: RO >But to take a "happy to offend you" >attitude with everyone, when only a minority of people are stupid or crass >enough to be offended by whatever someone else needs to stay >healthy/active/alive, is not productive for anyone. Nor would it be if the >majority of people were stupid or crass. Lee happens to be one of the musicians for my morris dance group, so I've seen her dress in a variety of styles, including Victorian (including an offensively-authentic Victorian bad-taste bonnet). While she's out there with her usual choice of day-to-day clothes, it's not what I would call offensive. In fact, I think the only people who would be offended by what she wears are the people who would be offended by whatever the younger generation is wearing this season. You probably wouldn't be offended by it, nor, if you saw her and didn't know it was her, even think she was dressing to offend. I think 'extreme' would be a better choice of words here, as she is always decently covered, always clean, and always polite unless someone starts off rude with her. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 22:18:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25750 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:18:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93KENP015937; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93KDSp007404; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93JESr007155 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:19:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.125.228]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5A00BXXH806O@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:19:14 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting In-reply-to: <20021109014426.87941.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021108190747.04ccd490@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:09:36 -0800 Status: RO I suggest you buy a commercial pattern that has multiple sizes, and see how they do it. It's not done just by adding the same amount of extra everywhere. Once you see how it is done, you will be better able to do it yourself. > How does everyone size up a pattern that is >several sizes too small? Some of the patterns I >bought years ago are single size reproductions of >original patterns and are as much as 10 inches to >small around the bust. Unfortunately the cut is >rather complicated so I can't just split the pattern >pieces horizontally and vertically and add inches that >way. I'm also working around a DD so I'm relatively >top-heavy. Do I size the pattern up to my general >size and then alter for the bust? One of the >Wisconsin Historical patterns suggests adding 1/8 inch >around each pattern piece for each size you want to go >up. Does that sound like a good idea? Suggestions >welcome. > Cassandra > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 22:19:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25757 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:19:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93KHNP015948; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:20:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93KGSp007430; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:20:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93JvSp007307 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.147.24aa6f2 (4196) for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:19:42 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <147.24aa6f2.2afdd8cd@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_147.24aa6f2.2afdd8cd_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Subject: [h-cost] Re-sizing patterns the easy photocopy way! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:19:41 EST Status: RO --part1_147.24aa6f2.2afdd8cd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 5:45:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes: > How does everyone size up a pattern that is > several sizes too small? Some of the patterns I > bought years ago are single size reproductions of > original patterns and are as much as 10 inches to > small around the bust. Unfortunately the cut is > rather complicated so I can't just split the pattern > pieces horizontally and vertically and add inches that > way. Without getting into grading patterns, it is very easy to enlarge patterns by photocopying them on zoom. And there is an easy method described to calculate the percentage of enlargement needed to achieve the desired size in a book I have on Traditional Designs for Hand Quilting by Keryn Emmerson. It is based upon the metric system which works great with the percentage of enlargement options on photocopiers. I'll type the instructions first then adapt them to show how to blow up a pattern to a particular bust size. "Changing a Size" Sometimes you will need to change the size of a design. This is easily done on a photocopier, but how do you arrive at the right size? Photocopies cost money, so do some calulating before you get there. I always work in millimeters when making calculations, because it's possible to take very accurate measurements, and the calculations are much simpler than using fractions of an inch." "Take an easy example: The design measures 75mm and you need it to be 150mm. Divide the desired measurement by the actual measurement to find the Scale Factor. 150/75=2 A photocopier increases and decreases by percentages; multiply the Scale Factor by 100 to find the percentage. A Scale Factor of 2 means you want to increase the size by 200%. A Scale Factor of .983 means you want to decrease the size by 98%. Often it's hard to remember formulae, but is is easy. There are only two numbers involved, and it's simiple to see if you've done the wrong thing. If you want the design to be larger, the Scale Factor should be larger than 1, and therefore the percentage will be greater than 100%. If the design is going to be smaller, the scale factor will be less than 1, and the percentage less than 100%." "If the photocipier will only enlarge to 200%, you will need to increase in two stages." (the next calculations are for a 217% enlargement) "First enlarge the original by 200%; then make another enlargement, this time using the copy. As it's already twice as big, you will only need to enlarge it by half the percentage above 200, so in this case, half of 17% is 8.5, which becomes 8 or 9." So, say you have a pattern with a bust size of 32 inches and it needs to be 36. Get a measuring tape with imperial on one side and metric on the other. Look at 32 inches and flip the tape over and read the metric equivalent which is 82 centimeters and add a zero to give you 820mm. You want the pattern to be 36 inches in the bust so look at 36 inches on the tape measure, flip it and you get 92 centimeters (approx) add a zero to give you 920mm. So the pattern measures 820mm and you need it to be 920mm. Divide the desired measure ment of 920 by actual pattern measurement of 820. This equals 1.12. multiply this number by 100 which equals 112. Now put the pattern in the copier and enlarge it to 112% and you will have your desired pattern size. Rgds, Lisa --part1_147.24aa6f2.2afdd8cd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 5:45:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, rosenau5@yahoo.com writes:


How does everyone size up a pattern that is
several sizes too small?  Some of the patterns I
bought years ago are single size reproductions of
original patterns and are as much as 10 inches to
small around the bust.  Unfortunately the cut is
rather complicated so I can't just split the pattern
pieces horizontally and vertically and add inches that
way.


Without getting into grading patterns, it is very easy to enlarge patterns by photocopying them on zoom.  And there is an easy method described to calculate the percentage of enlargement needed to achieve the desired size in a book I have on Traditional Designs for Hand Quilting by Keryn Emmerson.  It is based upon the metric system which works great with the percentage of enlargement options on photocopiers.  I'll type the instructions first then adapt them to show how to blow up a pattern to a particular bust size.

"Changing a Size"

Sometimes you will need to change the size of a design.  This is easily done on a photocopier, but how do you arrive at the right size?  Photocopies cost money, so do some calulating before you get there.

I always work in millimeters when making calculations, because it's possible to take very accurate measurements, and the calculations are much simpler than using fractions of an inch."

"Take an easy example:  The design measures 75mm and you need it to be 150mm.  Divide the desired measurement by the actual measurement to find the Scale Factor.  150/75=2

A photocopier increases and decreases by percentages; multiply the Scale Factor by 100 to find the percentage.  A Scale Factor of 2 means you want to increase the size by 200%.  A Scale Factor of .983 means you want to decrease the size by 98%.

Often it's hard to remember formulae, but is is easy.  There are only two numbers involved, and it's simiple to see if you've done the wrong thing.  If you want the design to be larger, the Scale Factor should be larger than 1, and therefore the percentage will be greater than 100%.  If the design is going to be smaller, the scale factor will be less than 1, and the percentage less than 100%."

"If the photocipier will only enlarge to 200%, you will need to increase in two stages."  (the next calculations are for a 217% enlargement)  "First enlarge the original by 200%; then make another enlargement, this time using the copy.  As it's already twice as big, you will only need to enlarge it by half the percentage above 200, so in this case, half of 17% is 8.5, which becomes 8 or 9."

So, say you have a pattern with a bust size of  32 inches and it needs to be 36.  Get a measuring tape with imperial on one side and metric on the other.  Look at 32 inches and flip the tape over and read the metric equivalent which is 82 centimeters and add a zero to give you 820mm.  You want the pattern to be 36 inches in the bust so look at 36 inches on the tape measure, flip it and you get 92 centimeters (approx) add a zero to give you 920mm.  So the pattern measures 820mm and you need it to be 920mm.  Divide the desired measure ment of 920 by actual pattern measurement of 820.  This equals 1.12.  multiply this number by 100 which equals 112.  Now put the pattern in the copier and enlarge it to 112% and you will have your desired pattern size.

Rgds,

Lisa

 --part1_147.24aa6f2.2afdd8cd_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 22:41:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25871 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:41:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93h1NP016905; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93h0Sp012727; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93gdSp012624 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:42:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id UAA09016 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:04:03 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211090404.UAA09016@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion braces Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:04:03 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Lee M Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > > Heh. I've been offending people lately with my, "That's right, I'm crippled. > > Now get over it, I have." attitude. Which means I've also been thumbing my > > nose at people who say my costume adaptations aren't period. When they quit > > getting vaccinations and taking antibiotics, I'll take that part seriously. > > Why do you feel the need to offend anyone? I, for one, resent people > dressing for the express purpose of offending me. It's . . . offensive. I think you linked the two phrases a little more closely than I intended. I meant that I do my dress as suits my needs, and thppt! to anyone who wants to play stitch-counter around me. The "offending" part was an incident that happened recently where I had to explain to someone that there's a very small slide from being "sensitive" to the handicapped and being patronizing. An awful lot of people want to avoid certain subjects around you if you're crippled. At least they do here in Berkeley, CA. They don't seem to realize that avoiding subjects like "walking" or "dancing" when you're still the dance session organizer is outright _stupid_ as well as insulting. That's where the, "Yes, I'm crippled. Now get over it," comes in. > Which I thought was not a good thing to be. I understand people not wanting > to have to hide their braces or wheelchair or prosthetics, etc., that's just > plain common sense. And so is the urge to decorate or custom make such items > -- something we should see more of! But to take a "happy to offend you" > attitude with everyone, when only a minority of people are stupid or crass > enough to be offended by whatever someone else needs to stay > healthy/active/alive, is not productive for anyone. Nor would it be if the > majority of people were stupid or crass. Remember the flamefest--I mean discussion on here about people wearing glasses? There are certainly enough folks who think that authenticity is first and foremost in costuming and so what if you're seriously incapacitated if you conform to their ideal of what reinactment should be. Those people I'm quite happy to offend. As I said, when they give up vaccinations and antibiotics, I'll give up my glasses and braces. > And if people are nasty about other people's clothing not being authentic > because it has to accommodate special foundation garments, wheelchairs, > crutches, or anything of the type -- well, they have the wrong priorities, > don't they? So why worry about them? Because they pop up everywhere reinactment is done? Every group has one or two. I love to come across the music police at reinactments as well, because almost without exception 1) they aren't musicians and 2) they're often _wrong_. And if they get in my face, they'll get to find out why both those things make it inappropriate for them to walk around criticizing other people's work. I don't go out of my way looking for bozos, but I don't mind telling them exactly what I think if they decide to bother me either. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 22:44:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25884 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:44:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93k1NP017038; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93k1Sp013499; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA93j4Sp013288 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id UAA09038 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:06:33 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211090406.UAA09038@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion braces Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:06:33 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "Stevie Gamble" wrote: > Gail wrote: > > Lee M Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > > Heh. I've been offending people lately with my, "That's right, > I'm crippled. > > > Now get over it, I have." attitude. Which means I've also been > thumbing my > > > nose at people who say my costume adaptations aren't period. When > they quit > > > getting vaccinations and taking antibiotics, I'll take that part > seriously. > > > > Why do you feel the need to offend anyone? I, for one, resent people > > dressing for the express purpose of offending me. It's . . . > offensive. > > Actually, Lee never suggested that she felt the need to offend anyone, > much less that she dressed for the express purpose of offending > anyone. You have made an entirely unjustified inference from her > observations in a manner which I, for one, find ... offensive. Right. If I'm actively _trying_ to offend the stitch-counters, there's never any doubt about it. But I usually only wear _those_ costumes to events where I know people who have their heads stuck in certain orfices are going to be. Clan MacDude and some of my other really wrong creations were done for _my_ amusement. That it happens to drive certain people into a frenzy is just a side benefit. [grin] Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 8 23:13:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25988 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:13:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA94F6NP018172; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:15:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA94F4Sp020952; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA94E1Sp020625 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AB88CA2301B6; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:14:00 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB882F1A0144; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:14:00 -0600 Message-ID: <00eb01c287a6$618ac340$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:13:38 -0500 Status: RO "A Fitting Time for Women." The setting is 1875-1900. The photography is outstanding. http://www.fittingtimeforwomen.com/html/index.html Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 00:04:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26191 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:04:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9562NP020332; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9561Sp002894; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA955WSp002738 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:05:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA969ZYv007643 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:09:36 -0800 Message-ID: <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit References: <00eb01c287a6$618ac340$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:08:16 -0800 Status: RO If I understand this site correctly, this pair combined efforts to pose modern people in period clothing and historic sites? I'm a little conflicted about this agenda: on the one hand, the people themselves _look_ modern, as do the poses (kind of that contrived spontaneity thing popular in some photographers' studios), so are we, the viewing public, supposed to understand it as a historically accurate view of how people behaved in natural settings? On the other hand, since there are already photos from the period available using of-the-period techniques, are we to view this as a purely art work view of that time period and not attach any guidelines of accuracy to it? On a related issue, SF Mod. Art Museum is running an exhibition of Lewis Carroll's approach to artsy, contrived-spontaneity staging of people in his life during the late 1800's. It will be interesting to see the parallels between his work and what this couple in "A Fitting Time..." is working towards. Penny, thanks for posting this site, it has much food for thought!! Theresa Eacker Penny Ladnier wrote: > "A Fitting Time for Women." The setting is 1875-1900. The photography is > outstanding. http://www.fittingtimeforwomen.com/html/index.html > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 00:46:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26326 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:46:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA95m4NP022374; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA95m1Sp012539; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA95l7Sp012368 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m136.in-tch.com [216.166.191.136]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gA95VcT06723 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:31:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DCCA16A.4C8799A3@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) References: <20021108230906.74643.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:47:22 -0700 Status: RO Ooooh, burnout. Yes, indeedy. Suffering from it in a major way, as a matter of fact. And with about the same symptoms as you, Nicole....loving the costuming and the research and such, but wanting most of the rest of it to go to h...... This list, and one or two others, are what have been keeping me sane. I can talk costuming and clothing and such to my heart's content with people from all over the map, literally and historically, and it helps remind me why I like doing this reenactment stuff (SCA, in my case) in the first place. What's keeping me active at all is a change in my focus (one of the minor advantages of having such a wide time frame available in the SCA). I've learned, over the years, to get away from the faked, glittery stuff (fun, but not what I'm after), and start really thinking about clothing construction and all the wonderful little details....blaming it squarely on people on this list like Drea, and her Flemish outfits, or Robin, and her fitted gowns. I don't feel like I'm reinventing myself, so much as I am just finding out what fits better.... --sue, who needs to teach herself cardweaving so she can finish the edges of her sleeves for this competition next February...... N Kipar wrote: > > Which brings me straight back to the very serious pondering ofthe question if I > am going to jack in re-enactment or give it another year's chance. Right now I > am for 'forget it all I really had it!' but then again, all those thousands and > thousands of pounds of gear... *sigh* > > Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues > while still loving one's costumes? > > Nicole > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 01:18:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26441 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:18:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA96J2NP023605; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA96J0Sp019113; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA96IqSp019080 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p7.directcon.net [206.170.184.106]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gA96IhTF005515; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:18:44 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021108222255.00ebe670@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: <001c01c27935$1ecf87e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: [h-cost] Website Update Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:22:55 -0800 Status: RO My wonderful husband has just finished a complete re-vamp of my website, margospatterns.com. Take a look! Within the next week we will be adding several more sections, including his article on Photographing Costumes, and mine on Why I Am No Longer A Member of The Costume Police, as well as photos of the entries in the recent Iron Dress Competition. Thanks, Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 03:23:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09358 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 03:23:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA98N5NP027604; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:23:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA98N0Sp015153; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA98MjSp015098 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:22:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-127-11.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.127.11] (may be forged)) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMU65853; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 08:22:11 GMT Message-ID: <007701c287c9$bdd00ca0$0b7f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Tired of re-enactment Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 08:26:45 -0000 Status: RO >Which brings me straight back to the very serious pondering ofthe question if I am going to jack in re-enactment or give it another year's chance. Right now I am for 'forget it all I really had it!' but then again, all those thousands and thousands of pounds of gear... *sigh* >Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues while still loving one's costumes? Oddly yes this year, do you think it is something in the English air ? I've had a sad re-enactment year, and am trying to reasses where I want to go with it , hence more role play for me as otherwise it is just dressing up in costume (my opinion for me other might not feel this way) and I'm dog tired of being told I have to be accurate for the public, who general doing know Roman from Romansque or Anglo saxon from Viking, ontop of all this I'm supposed to be pleased to do it despite not getting paid or expenses and I'm sent lectures by event organisers on how I must be polite, funnily enough I don't think I've ever been rude to anyone at a event unless they have been very very rude to me !! Sorry I'm ranting now. One of my best events was Teddy's coronation this year, so little pressure, one can see the benefits of the SCA type organisations ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 03:34:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20597 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 03:34:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA98Z2NP027975; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA98Z1Sp017404; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA98YeSp017304 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:34:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A89F7DB0280; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 02:34:39 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A8A02FC80144; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 02:34:40 -0600 Message-ID: <012201c287ca$c5cec080$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <00eb01c287a6$618ac340$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 03:34:08 -0500 Status: RO Theresa, I guess the artist value of their photos won me. I love the set ups of the shots and some of the comparisons of light and shadow. I love photography as an artform. Getting the perfect shoot takes a good eye and talent. This couple got several wonderful shots. Sometimes getting the perfect shot is just dumb luck as my third son (computer major) proved to his girlfriend who is a photography major. In high school, his photo entry was the only one published in their school's literary magazine. Her entry wasn't published. She was so mad at him. This son has no talent with a camera. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 04:07:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA19733 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 04:07:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9983NP029474; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 02:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9981Sp023974; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 02:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f72.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9979Sp023733 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 02:07:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:07:03 -0800 Received: from 80.3.160.4 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 09:07:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.3.160.4] From: "Joy Shillaker" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2002 09:07:03.0779 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EC5B330:01C287CF] Subject: [h-cost] kechers and tired of re-enacting Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 09:07:03 +0000 Status: RO Hi Jean, kercht is another form of kercher, kerchef, kerchief, neckerchief, neckhandkerchief, it seems to be spelt differently in nearly all the probate, court rolls for the period 1600 -1700, either a folded square worn round the shoulders and pinned at front, or a shaped oval of fabric which fits more around the shoulders. Yes Nicole, I've not done any reenacting this year, I was even tired of doing the tower of London, but I've done masses of sewing, mainly for other people. I may do a couple of days at Christmas but on a very small scale. Are you getting fed up? regards Joy _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 05:03:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14866 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 05:03:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9A46NP001214; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 03:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9A40Sp006617; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 03:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9A3YSp006527 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 03:03:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021109100333.GTJB27595.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:03:33 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tired of re-enactment Message-ID: <3DCCDD70.19463.14865F5F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <007701c287c9$bdd00ca0$0b7f4ed5@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:03:28 -0000 Status: RO On 9 Nov 2002 at 8:26, Melanie Wilson wrote: > Sorry I'm ranting now. One of my best events was Teddy's coronation > this year, so little pressure, one can see the benefits of the SCA > type organisations ! Well, if you want to try any more, just get in touch. Or email Teddy directly, of course. Not many of our dos are as big and posh as Coronation, but they're all relaxed, non-public, and so on. And Teddy's running the next one, so I'm sure he'd appreciate the support. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 06:53:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15335 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 06:53:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9Bs5NP004330; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 04:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9Bs0Sp026922; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 04:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9BrjSp026851 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 04:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-98-82.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.98.82]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AMP89008; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:51:36 GMT Message-ID: <002b01c287e7$42d44d40$52624ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <3DCCDD70.19463.14865F5F@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tired of re-enactment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:58:03 -0000 Status: RO >Or email Teddy directly, of course. Not many of our dos are as big and posh as Coronation, but they're all relaxed, non-public, and so on. I might well do that :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 08:19:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15659 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 08:19:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9DJ4NP006514; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 06:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9DJ1Sp012148; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 06:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9DI1Sp011970 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 06:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-95-96.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.95.96] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AVUu-0007Em-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:18:00 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c287f2$f0717d00$605f22d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] On line exhibition - Reforming Fashion, 1850-1914 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:21:40 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, There is a marvellous on-line exhibition 'Reforming Fashion, 1850-1914. Politics, Health, and Art' at: http://costume.osu.edu/Reforming_Fashion/artistic_dress.htm which has some lovely examples of Aesthetic Dress. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 11:16:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16373 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:16:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9GH3NP012956; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9GH0Sp018920; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9GGJSp018776 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:16:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.5 (built Sep 23 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5B00DN2H6CIY@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 11:15:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,,pattern stuff To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DCD3461.3060401@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 10:14:25 -0600 Status: RO Cassandra, When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got a handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern using the industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely complicated, and is more accurate than the split and spread method. If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list together and send them all at once. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 11:39:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16548 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:39:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9Ge4NP014084; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9Ge0Sp024251; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rhenium (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9GdoSp024222 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:39:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-95-96.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.95.96] helo=dan) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AYeD-0006g2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 16:39:49 +0000 Message-ID: <004d01c2880f$21ed9320$605f22d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Vintage Renaissance Court Herald Costume Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:43:29 -0000 Status: RO Hi, For those of you who like late Victorian /Edwardian Renaissancs repros; one of several http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=978347804 best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 12:09:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16743 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:09:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9HA1NP015580; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9HA0Sp001239; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gA9H9HSp001099 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:09:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14393 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 17:09:16 -0000 Received: from 208-27-190-21.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (208.27.190.21) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 17:09:16 -0000 Message-ID: <3DCD40E4.D0B21D54@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update References: <3.0.6.32.20021108222255.00ebe670@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:07:48 -0500 Status: RO Margo Anderson wrote: > > My wonderful husband has just finished a complete re-vamp of my website, > margospatterns.com. Take a look! > > Within the next week we will be adding several more sections, including his > article on Photographing Costumes, and mine on Why I Am No Longer A Member > of The Costume Police, as well as photos of the entries in the recent Iron > Dress Competition. > > Thanks, > > Margo > "One Tough Costumer" Margo when I try to access the new site this is the message I recieve. Forbidden You don't have permission to access /m/margoanderson.js on this server. Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 12:47:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17308 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:47:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9HjLNP017116; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:45:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9Hi0Sp009929; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9HhWSp009726 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:43:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9IlcYv010754 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:47:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3DCD49EA.9030204@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) References: <20021108.215425.-380065.0.catpurson@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 09:46:18 -0800 Status: RO To Lalah- I literally jumped up immediately upon reading your note and submerged the skirt in a basin of water, especially when you mentioned not letting the stain dry. I want to thank you for the reminder and I do believe the stain is gone and the skirt pretty much looks good as new. I worried about the issue of sizing on the fabric, maybe altering its quality, but the taffeta still looks pretty crisp. Thanks again!!! Theresa Eacker Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > I don't know if the ladies in the olden days had shorter skirts > for rain or not, but please don't let the stain set in until you can use > your clothes line. Even if you have to hang it over the shower rod, you > should wash it as soon after it was wet as possible. It is best if you > can wash it before it ever dries but that is usually not possible. Just > get it soaking now so you might get the stain out. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 13:02:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17410 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:02:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9I31NP017967; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9I30Sp014387; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9I2CSp014152 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021109180207.IQOQ2199.lakemtao01.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:02:07 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tired of re-enactment Message-ID: <000001c287da$a36e99b0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <007701c287c9$bdd00ca0$0b7f4ed5@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 05:27:37 -0500 Status: RO Oh gosh, I feel =SO= much better. All these months I thought it was only me, and I didn't want to say anything! It has nothing to do with "English air"! My disaffection started last winter and lasted until about 2 months ago. I just didn't want anything more to do with any of this, and I was about 3 seconds or one good argument away from putting everything on eBay and just quitting. It was a dark, dark time around here! So, before I went that far, I just stopped doing anything remotely history related. I live in an older house, so I started working on the remodel jobs that I've put off because all my time and money had been going to -The Hobby-. I read several really good fiction novels, not history at all. I refused to watch anything on TV, either regular or movies, that was based on history. I played a lot of games on my computer. I did anything at all that would not remind me of living history. Sometimes I didn't do anything at all, I just relaxed and slept a lot. I did not sew anything. The result of my 6 month hiatus is that I feel completely refreshed and ready to go at it again. This time however, I play to the level that /I'm/ comfortable with, and have learned not to let myself get overloaded or pulled in too many different directions by other people. I've learned to show up sometimes with just my basket on my arm and a stool to sit on, and let somebody else worry if all the gear and equipment made it on site or not, or is there food and water, or does the new person have a shirt to wear. If I still do these things, it's because I /want/ to, not because I'm feeling pressured to do it. That's a huge difference! My advice to those who are feeling fed up with living history is to find something else to do for a while that has _nothing at all_ to do with The Hobby. Paint a room, plan a garden, buy a dog or take a trip, anything that will get you out of this rut and into a new groove. Pax, Linda -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Wilson Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 3:27 AM To: LIST H costume Subject: [h-cost] Tired of re-enactment >Which brings me straight back to the very serious pondering ofthe question if I am going to jack in re-enactment or give it another year's chance. Right now I am for 'forget it all I really had it!' but then again, all those thousands And thousands of pounds of gear... *sigh* >Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues while still loving one's costumes? Oddly yes this year, do you think it is something in the English air ? I've had a sad re-enactment year, and am trying to reasses where I want to go with it , hence more role play for me as otherwise it is just dressing up in costume (my opinion for me other might not feel this way) and I'm dog tired of being told I have to be accurate for the public, who general doing know Roman from Romansque or Anglo saxon from Viking, ontop of all this I'm supposed to be pleased to do it despite not getting paid or expenses and I'm sent lectures by event organisers on how I must be polite, funnily enough I don't think I've ever been rude to anyone at a event unless they have been very very rude to me !! Sorry I'm ranting now. One of my best events was Teddy's coronation this year, so little pressure, one can see the benefits of the SCA type organisations ! Mel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 13:18:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17518 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:18:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9IJ2NP018508; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9IJ1Sp018490; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9IIjSp018415 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:18:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.bd.2a1af8bb (4592) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:18:23 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tired of re-enactment To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_bd.2a1af8bb.2afeab6f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:18:23 EST Status: RO --part1_bd.2a1af8bb.2afeab6f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have often run into situations and people in the course of living history that made me question why I was doing what I was doing. I started off in a really costume nazi group, and I must say I was glad it was like that, however, the woman who was in charge of costumes wanted to look better than everyone else so she often created rules based upon ulterior motives other han historical accuracy. This was a medieval group and many people dressed very gothic in real life and many women wanted to have black dresses so this woman created a rule, after she already had made her black dress mind you, that no more black dresses could be made because the group would look better (it was a performance troupe) if there were a wide variety of dress colours used and black wasn't a very common colour. Needless to say, us underlings grumbled for a year or so, but then.......she gained an enormous amount of weight and could no longer fit into her black dress and because she made the rule of no more black dresses, she could not make a new one!!!! Those are the funny things that also happen that make me continue. Have a break and enjoy your hobby again! Cheers, Lisa --part1_bd.2a1af8bb.2afeab6f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have often run into situations and people in the course of living history that made me question why I was doing what I was doing.  I started off in a really costume nazi group, and I must say I was glad it was like that, however, the woman who was in charge of costumes wanted to look better than everyone else so she often created rules based upon ulterior motives other han historical accuracy.  This was a medieval group and many people dressed very gothic in real life and many women wanted to have black dresses so this woman created a rule, after she already had made her black dress mind you, that no more black dresses could be made because the group would look better (it was a performance troupe) if there were a wide variety of dress colours used and black wasn't a very common colour.

Needless to say, us underlings grumbled for a year or so, but then.......she gained an enormous amount of weight and could no longer fit into her black dress and because she made the rule of no more black dresses, she could not make a new one!!!!

Those are the funny things that also happen that make me continue.

Have a break and enjoy your hobby again!

Cheers,

Lisa --part1_bd.2a1af8bb.2afeab6f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 15:25:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18460 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:25:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9KO3NP024615; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:24:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9KO1Sp017898; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f64.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9KNwSp017860 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:23:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:23:53 -0800 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:23:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,,pattern stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2002 20:23:53.0036 (UTC) FILETIME=[EBC690C0:01C2882D] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:23:52 -0800 Status: RO Please send me one too. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will >scan it and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I >remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely complicated, and >is more accurate than the split and spread method. > >If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list together >and send them all at once. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 15:31:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18514 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:31:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9KW2NP025030; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9KW1Sp020106; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9KVRSp019926 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:31:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.165.1648eb2c (3964) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:31:10 -0500 (EST) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: <165.1648eb2c.2afeca8e@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_165.1648eb2c.2afeca8e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10638 Subject: [h-cost] mid 1800's Russian Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:31:10 EST Status: RO --part1_165.1648eb2c.2afeca8e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just received the sheet on what my son has to wear for the Christmas program. The play is set in the mid 1800's in Russia. The suggestions for his part are dark pants, more formal attire, old hats, glasses, dark shoes or boots. Does anyone have a recommendation for a pattern for that? What type of fabric would you suggest also? This is not my area at all. Thanks. Oh, and they are only giving me less then 2 weeks before dress rehearsal. Thanks for all the help. Kelly m311@aol.com --part1_165.1648eb2c.2afeca8e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just received the sheet on what my son has to wear for the Christmas program.  The play is set in the mid 1800's in Russia.  The suggestions for his part are dark pants, more formal attire, old hats, glasses, dark shoes or boots.  Does anyone have a recommendation for a pattern for that?  What type of fabric would you suggest also? 
This is not my area at all.  Thanks.  Oh, and they are only giving me less then 2 weeks before dress rehearsal. 
Thanks for all the help.
Kelly
m311@aol.com --part1_165.1648eb2c.2afeca8e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 16:12:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18691 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:12:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9LD2NP026578; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9LD1Sp029414; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (mail.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9LCsSp029393 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:12:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [167.142.11.122] (HELO hppav) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 191503990 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 15:12:53 -0600 Message-ID: <04af01c28834$d4f81420$d7108ea7@hppav> From: "Land of Oz" To: References: <165.1648eb2c.2afeca8e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mid 1800's Russian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04AC_01C28802.89EFC720" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:13:20 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_04AC_01C28802.89EFC720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just received the sheet on what my son has to wear for the Christmas = program. The play is set in the mid 1800's in Russia. The suggestions = for his part are dark pants, more formal attire, old hats, glasses, dark = shoes or boots. Does anyone have a recommendation for a pattern for = that? What type of fabric would you suggest also? =20 This is not my area at all. Thanks. Oh, and they are only giving me = less then 2 weeks before dress rehearsal. =20 It sounds to me like the suggestions are intended to *prevent* you from = having to sew anything. Most parents don't sew, and it doesn't seem like = it's the kind of production that requires "period costuming"---just a = similarity of look to give a feel of a time "other than now". =20 If your kid doesn't have any dark pants, dye some jeans black. Have him = wear a button up dress shirt, and if you don't have anything at home = that would make a suitable jacket, go to Goodwill (or regional = substitute) and buy an old men's suit jacket. If you can find an old = felt hat you are done.=20 I don't believe this is a situation where period patterns and fabric are = required. Denise, with 2 kids always needing costumes for school stuff ------=_NextPart_000_04AC_01C28802.89EFC720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just received the sheet on what my son has to = wear for the=20 Christmas program.  The play is set in the mid 1800's in = Russia.  The=20 suggestions for his part are dark pants, more formal attire, old hats, = glasses,=20 dark shoes or boots.  Does anyone have a recommendation for a = pattern for=20 that?  What type of fabric would you suggest also? 
This = is not my=20 area at all.  Thanks.  Oh, and they are only giving me less = then 2=20 weeks before dress rehearsal. 
 
It sounds to = me like the=20 suggestions are intended to *prevent* you from having to sew anything. = Most=20 parents don't sew, and it doesn't seem like it's the kind of production = that=20 requires "period costuming"---just a similarity of look to give a feel = of a time=20 "other than now". 
 
If your kid = doesn't have any=20 dark pants, dye some jeans black. Have him wear a button up dress shirt, = and if=20 you don't have anything at home that would make a suitable jacket, go to = Goodwill (or regional substitute) and buy an old men's suit jacket. If = you can=20 find an old felt hat you are done.
 
I don't = believe this is a=20 situation where period patterns and fabric are=20 required.
 
Denise, with 2 = kids always needing costumes for school=20 stuff
------=_NextPart_000_04AC_01C28802.89EFC720-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 16:14:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18704 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:14:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9LF1NP026691; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9LF0Sp000186; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:15:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9LEXSp029954 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:13:23 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AA732A22014E; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 14:13:23 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 09 Nov 2002 14:13:22 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] mid 1800's Russian Message-ID: <000001c28835$1f7ac920$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C28802.D4E05920" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <165.1648eb2c.2afeca8e@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:15:24 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C28802.D4E05920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this a one-time performance? Sounds like you shouldn't put in too much effort. Here's my suggestion for a quick version of 1860 man's formal attire: Black wool trousers To be authentic, they would have a button fly, be a bit high in the waist, and have NO crease in the front. Wear with suspenders. White shirt Bow tie (white or black) Vest-white or brocade of some sort, fancy Only the front needs to be good, the back won't be seen under the coat Black wool coat, preferably a cutaway style Black leather shoes or boots Hat ONLY if play is set outdoors. Men do not wear hats indoors. Or, he could carry the hat inside. A derby or top hat would be fine. White gloves, black walking stick-if you have some, to look more formal You could find most of this in thrift stores, or make a simple version. Except the formal coat-that's toughter. You might consider a formal wear rental place. Remember, anything that doesn't show can be inauthentic. These patterns are good: Laughing Moon California Pants Ageless Patterns 1301 M, Men's Tail Coat, waist coat and trousers Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of M311@aol.com Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 2:31 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] mid 1800's Russian I just received the sheet on what my son has to wear for the Christmas program. The play is set in the mid 1800's in Russia. The suggestions for his part are dark pants, more formal attire, old hats, glasses, dark shoes or boots. Does anyone have a recommendation for a pattern for that? What type of fabric would you suggest also? This is not my area at all. Thanks. Oh, and they are only giving me less then 2 weeks before dress rehearsal. Thanks for all the help. Kelly m311@aol.com ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C28802.D4E05920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Is this a = one-tim<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>e = perform<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>ance? Sounds like you shouldn’t put in too m<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>uch effort. Here’s m<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>y suggestion for a quick version of 1860 m<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>an’s form<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>al = attire:

 

=

Black wool = trousers

        = ;    To be authentic, they would have a button fly, be a bit high in the waist, = and have NO crease in the front. Wear with = suspenders.

White = shirt

Bow tie (white or = black)

Vest—white or brocade of = som<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>e sort, fancy

        = ;    Only the front needs to be good, the back won’t be seen under the = coat

Black wool coat, preferably a = cutaway style

Black leather shoes or = boots

Hat ONLY if play is set outdoors. = Men do not wear hats indoors. Or, he could carry the hat inside. A derby or top = hat would be fine.

White gloves, black walking = stick—if you have som<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>e, to look = m<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>ore = form<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>al

 

=

You could find = m<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>ost of this in thrift stores, or m<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>ake a = sim<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>ple version. Except the form<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>al coat—that’s toughter. You m<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>ight consider a form<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>al wear rental place.

 

=

Rem<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>em<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>ber, anything that doesn’t show can be = inauthentic.

 

=

These patterns are = good:

Laughing Moon = California = Pants

Ageless Patterns 1301 M, = Men’s Tail Coat, waist coat and trousers

 

=

Kim<= font color=3Dblack face=3DArial>

 

=

-----Original = Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of M311@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November = 09, 2002 2:31 PM
To: = h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] mid = 1800's Russian

 

I just received the sheet = on what my son has to wear for the Christmas program.  The play is set in the = mid 1800's in Russia.  The suggestions for his part are dark pants, = more formal attire, old hats, glasses, dark shoes or boots.  Does anyone = have a recommendation for a pattern for that?  What type of fabric would = you suggest also? 
This is not my area at all.  Thanks.  Oh, and they are only = giving me less then 2 weeks before dress rehearsal. 
Thanks for all the help.
Kelly
m311@aol.com

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C28802.D4E05920-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 17:30:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19113 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:30:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9MV3NP029822; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9MV1Sp017380; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9MUWSp017232 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp171.directcon.net [206.170.184.171]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gA9MUPTF025066 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:30:26 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021109143435.00ec9ec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update In-Reply-To: <3DCD40E4.D0B21D54@inetone.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20021108222255.00ebe670@pop.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 14:34:35 -0800 Status: RO Hi, this is Wayne, Margo's husband. You wrote: >Margo when I try to access the new site this is the message I recieve. > >Forbidden > >You don't have permission to access /m/margoanderson.js on this server. > >Diana Diana, what URL are you using? When I go to http://www.margospatterns.com, it works fine from here. Are you perhaps using an old bookmark? Because I took the old web pages down when I put up the new site -- necessary, because some of the pages have the same names. Try using the URL above, and let me know if you still have problems. Wayne "One Tough Webmaster?" "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 18:17:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19378 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:17:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9NI2NP001881; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9NI0Sp027689; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9NH1Sp027484 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.71] (as3-4-85.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.71]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gA9NGx700057 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:17:00 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <04af01c28834$d4f81420$d7108ea7@hppav> References: <165.1648eb2c.2afeca8e@aol.com> <04af01c28834$d4f81420$d7108ea7@hppav> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] mid 1800's Russian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gA9NH1Sp027484 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:00:53 -0800 Status: RO At 3:13 PM -0600 11/9/02, Land of Oz wrote: >I just received the sheet on what my son has to wear for the >Christmas program. The play is set in the mid 1800's in Russia. >The suggestions for his part are dark pants, more formal attire, old >hats, glasses, dark shoes or boots. Does anyone have a >recommendation for a pattern for that? What type of fabric would >you suggest also?  >This is not my area at all. Thanks. Oh, and they are only giving >me less then 2 weeks before dress rehearsal.  > > >It sounds to me like the suggestions are intended to *prevent* you >from having to sew anything. Most parents don't sew, and it doesn't >seem like it's the kind of production that requires "period >costuming"---just a similarity of look to give a feel of a time >"other than now". > >If your kid doesn't have any dark pants, dye some jeans black. Have >him wear a button up dress shirt, and if you don't have anything at >home that would make a suitable jacket, go to Goodwill (or regional >substitute) and buy an old men's suit jacket. If you can find an old >felt hat you are done. > I agree -- it sounds to me like they're aiming for an old-fashioned "look" that can be put together from existing garments, not asking for serious historic costuming. (I still remember the time in grade school when I had a minor bit-part in a medievaloid play and what my mother and I "threw together" as a medieval dress turned out to be embarrassingly more historic than anything even the leads were wearing ... but by the time I found this out, it was too late to tone it down.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 18:17:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19384 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:17:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9NIENP001889; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9NIDSp027752; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:18:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9NH3Sp027497 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.71] (as3-4-85.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.71]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gA9NH2700119 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:17:02 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20021109143435.00ec9ec0@pop.directcon.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20021108222255.00ebe670@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20021109143435.00ec9ec0@pop.directcon.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:12:43 -0800 Status: RO At 2:34 PM -0800 11/9/02, Margo Anderson wrote: >Hi, this is Wayne, Margo's husband. > >You wrote: > >>Margo when I try to access the new site this is the message I recieve. >> >>Forbidden >> >>You don't have permission to access /m/margoanderson.js on this server. >> >>Diana > >Diana, what URL are you using? When I go to http://www.margospatterns.com, >it works fine from here. Are you perhaps using an old bookmark? Because I >took the old web pages down when I put up the new site -- necessary, >because some of the pages have the same names. > >Try using the URL above, and let me know if you still have problems. I cut and pasted the url you give above, got the opening page (about whether you want the high or low resolution version), then when it automatically sent me to the frames version, I get the menu display on the left (but with no active links) an in the main display frame "Forbidden you don't have permission to access /m/margoanderson.js on this server". If I click on the low-resolution link from the opening screen, I get nothing at all. (I'm using Netscape with JavaScript enabled, if it matters.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 18:58:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20331 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:58:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9Nx4NP003570; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9Nx2Sp006925; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9NwRSp006761 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:58:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.115.1a59ed5a (4116) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:58:15 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <115.1a59ed5a.2afefb17@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mid 1800's Russian To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_115.1a59ed5a.2afefb17_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:58:15 EST Status: RO --part1_115.1a59ed5a.2afefb17_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/2002 4:13:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, landofoz@netins.net writes: > If your kid doesn't have any dark pants, dye some jeans black. Don't do that! What a pain! Go to Good Will or the Salvation Army store and buy him some used pants. --part1_115.1a59ed5a.2afefb17_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/2002 4:13:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, landofoz@netins.net writes:


If your kid doesn't have any dark pants, dye some jeans black.


Don't do that! What a pain! Go to Good Will or the Salvation Army store and buy him some used pants. --part1_115.1a59ed5a.2afefb17_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 19:10:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20407 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:10:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA0B3NP004169; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA0B2Sp009671; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA0AwSp009651 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:10:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp171.directcon.net [206.170.184.171]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gAA08YTF009101 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:08:36 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021109161245.00ecbd20@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20021109143435.00ec9ec0@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20021108222255.00ebe670@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20021109143435.00ec9ec0@pop.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 16:12:45 -0800 Status: RO Heather Rose Jones wrote: >I cut and pasted the url you give above, got the opening page (about >whether you want the high or low resolution version), then when it >automatically sent me to the frames version, I get the menu display >on the left (but with no active links) an in the main display frame >"Forbidden you don't have permission to access /m/margoanderson.js >on this server". If I click on the low-resolution link from the >opening screen, I get nothing at all. (I'm using Netscape with >JavaScript enabled, if it matters.) > >Heather Thanks -- even though that's not what I wanted to hear. I can see I'll have to do a bit more digging on this... I hope to have it worked out soon. Wayne "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 19:11:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20411 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:11:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA0C0NP004212; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA0C0Sp009928; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA0BaSp009799 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:11:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.74.260f8ceb (4116) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:10:20 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <74.260f8ceb.2afefdec@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mid 1800's Russian To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_74.260f8ceb.2afefdec_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:10:20 EST Status: RO --part1_74.260f8ceb.2afefdec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 11/9/2002 4:15:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 kbaird@cableone.net writes: Very Good! Please allow me [who has done this A LOT] to elaborate.... > Black wool trousers [Good Will] > To be authentic, they would have a button fly, be a bit high i= n=20 > the waist, [you can undo the seam, if there is one, in the back of the=20 > waistband and it will ride up a little like the real thing] and have NO=20 > crease in the front.[ NO crease in the front....just wanted to restate tha= t > ] Wear with suspenders. [Pref. button ones] > White shirt > Bow tie (white or black) [or if it's earlier, like 1840, flip the collar u= p=20 > and take a piece of silk [or fancy fabric] about 8" to 10" wide and 45"=20 > long and wrap it around his neck....start with the middle of the piece in=20 > the front and wrap around in both directions, maybe more than once, and ti= e=20 > in a bow or square knot at front] > Vest=E2=80=94white or brocade of some sort, fancy [Check out formal wear r= entals.=20 > NO CUMBERBUNS] > Only the front needs to be good, the back won=E2=80=99t be see= n under=20 > the coat > Black wool coat, preferably a cutaway style [Formal wear rentals again] > Black leather shoes or boots > Hat ONLY if play is set outdoors. Men do not wear hats indoors. Or, he=20 > could carry [Halloween just past....you may be able to find a good cheep=20 > top hat] Have fun! --part1_74.260f8ceb.2afefdec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 11/9/2002 4:15:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, kbaird@cable= one.net writes:


Very Good! Please allow me [who has done this A LOT] to elaborate....

Black wool trou= sers [Good Will]
          = ; To be authentic, they would have a button fly, be a bit high in the w= aist, [you can undo the seam, if there is one, in the back of the waistba= nd and it will ride up a little like the real thing] and have NO crease=20= in the front.[ NO crease in the front....just wanted to restate that]= Wear with suspenders. [Pref. button ones]
White shirt
Bow tie (white or black) [or if it's earlier, like 1840, flip the col= lar up and take a piece of silk [or fancy fabric] about 8" to 10" wide and 4= 5" long and wrap it around his neck....start with the middle of the piece in= the front and wrap around in both directions, maybe more than once, and tie= in a bow or square knot at front]
Vest=E2=80=94white or brocade of s= ome sort, fancy [Check out formal wear rentals. NO CUMBERBUNS]
           Only=20= the front needs to be good, the back won=E2=80=99t be seen under the coatBlack wool coat, preferably a cutaway style [Formal wear rentals again]<= /I>
Black leather shoes or boots
Hat ONLY if play is set outdoors. Men do not wear hats indoors. Or, he c= ould carry [Halloween just past....you may be able to find a good cheep t= op hat]



Have fun!



--part1_74.260f8ceb.2afefdec_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 20:21:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20641 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:21:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA1L2NP007202; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA1L0Sp025818; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA1KMSp025649 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:20:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.d6.1f196245 (3972) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:20:11 -0500 (EST) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d6.1f196245.2aff0e4b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10638 Subject: [h-cost] Re: mid 1800's Russian male Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:20:11 EST Status: RO --part1_d6.1f196245.2aff0e4b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/2002 5:19:56 PM Central Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > I don't believe this is a situation where period patterns They all know I sew and don't mind if I use a period costume. I want a period costume, or as close as I can get. Last year I did a great Abe Lincoln for him. The cut was period even if all the materials weren't. If I don't come up with something looking period the custome mother will find his stuff to wear. Kelly m311@aol.com --part1_d6.1f196245.2aff0e4b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/2002 5:19:56 PM Central Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes:


I don't believe this is a situation where period patterns


They all know I sew and don't mind if I use a period costume.  I want a period costume, or as close as I can get.  Last year I did a great Abe Lincoln for him.  The cut was period even if all the materials weren't.  If I don't come up with something looking period the custome mother will find his stuff to wear. 
Kelly
m311@aol.com --part1_d6.1f196245.2aff0e4b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 20:40:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20729 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:40:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA1f2NP008201; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA1f0Sp000365; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA1e4Sp029995 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.94.181.20]) by mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20021110013957.OQVX24110.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:39:57 +0000 Message-ID: <3DCDB8CC.C42E5DED@worldnet.att.net> From: Justine Magill X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update References: <3.0.6.32.20021109143435.00ec9ec0@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20021108222255.00ebe670@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20021109143435.00ec9ec0@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20021109161245.00ecbd20@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:39:24 -0500 Status: RO I also have netscape, and had the same problem. I pressed on the links, nothing happened. I then hit back on my browser, and the site came up. From there, everything worked. It was strange! Jenne Margo Anderson wrote: > > Thanks -- even though that's not what I wanted to hear. > > I can see I'll have to do a bit more digging on this... I hope to have it > worked out soon. > > Wayne > "One Tough Costumer" > > See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 21:11:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20844 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:11:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA2C2NP009640; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA2C1Sp007005; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA2B2Sp006766 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net ([12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021110021057.ESA25908.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@fenris.net> for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:10:57 +0000 Message-ID: <3DCDC0C7.4080004@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20011221 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update References: <3.0.6.32.20021109143435.00ec9ec0@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20021108222255.00ebe670@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20021109143435.00ec9ec0@pop.directcon.net> <3.0.6.32.20021109161245.00ecbd20@pop.directcon.net> <3DCDB8CC.C42E5DED@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:13:27 -0800 Status: RO I'm using Mozilla, a pre-release version yet, and worked OK for me. liz Justine Magill wrote: >I also have netscape, and had the same problem. I pressed on the links, >nothing happened. I then hit back on my browser, and the site came up. From >there, everything worked. It was strange! > >Jenne > >Margo Anderson wrote: > >>Thanks -- even though that's not what I wanted to hear. >> >>I can see I'll have to do a bit more digging on this... I hope to have it >>worked out soon. >> >>Wayne >>"One Tough Costumer" >> >>See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 22:21:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21278 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:21:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA3J7NP012512; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA3J1Sp020311; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA3IsSp020271 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id TAA13240 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:40:22 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211100340.TAA13240@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Update Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:40:22 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > Hi, this is Wayne, Margo's husband. > > You wrote: > > >Margo when I try to access the new site this is the message I recieve. > > > >Forbidden > > > >You don't have permission to access /m/margoanderson.js on this server. > > > >Diana > Diana, what URL are you using? When I go to http://www.margospatterns.com, > it works fine from here. Are you perhaps using an old bookmark? Because I > took the old web pages down when I put up the new site -- necessary, > because some of the pages have the same names. > > Try using the URL above, and let me know if you still have problems. I've seen that error happen before if the browser chokes on your JavaScript code. Older versions of Netscape are more prone to it (but suprisingly, my old version doesn't, so that's not it this time). My version of IE has an odd problem that I've also seen before. The menu in your side frame doesn't have a scrollbar. This is bad, because not everyone has the same size screen. The last few entries are simply inaccessable if you can't make the window large enough. That and the tiny fontsize problem usually both show up when someone has a large monitor that they're working on. It doesn't occur to the developer that some of the rest of us still use smaller screens. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 22:27:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21303 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:27:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA3S2NP012842; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA3S0Sp021995; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (mail.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA3RNSp021883 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:27:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [167.142.11.122] (HELO hppav) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 191678808 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:27:22 -0600 Message-ID: <061201c28869$1d669180$d7108ea7@hppav> From: "Land of Oz" To: References: <115.1a59ed5a.2afefb17@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mid 1800's Russian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_060F_01C28836.D25FCB20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:27:35 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_060F_01C28836.D25FCB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If your kid doesn't have any dark pants, dye some jeans black.=20 Don't do that! What a pain! Go to Good Will or the Salvation Army = store and buy him some used pants.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I dye lots of things at home and don't find it to be a pain at all. I = wouldn't recommend a course of action if I thought it was "a pain" or = inappropriate in other ways.=20 For me, dyeing something is preferable to a 45 minute drive by = interstate highway to the nearest Goodwill store.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_060F_01C28836.D25FCB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If your kid doesn't have any dark pants, dye = some jeans=20 black.
Don't do that! What a pain! Go to Good Will or = the=20 Salvation Army store and buy him some used pants.=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
I dye lots of things at home and don't find it = to be a=20 pain at all. I wouldn't recommend a course of action if I thought it was = "a=20 pain" or inappropriate in other ways.
 
For me, dyeing something is preferable to a = 45 minute=20 drive by interstate highway to the nearest Goodwill store.=20
------=_NextPart_000_060F_01C28836.D25FCB20-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 9 23:41:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21590 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:41:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA4g3NP016216; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA4g1Sp007785; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA4f3Sp007575 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from LSinervo@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.11e.198657d2 (17228) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:40:49 -0500 (EST) From: LSinervo@aol.com Message-ID: <11e.198657d2.2aff3d50@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_11e.198657d2.2aff3d50_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Subject: [h-cost] The Romance of French Weaving Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:40:48 EST Status: RO --part1_11e.198657d2.2aff3d50_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just come across a delightful book called "The Romance of French Weaving" by Paul Rodier published in 1936, copyright 1931, last checked out from the college library in 1986. It is a narrative of the history of French weaving and the growth of the textile industry in general set amongst a picturesque landscape with the royal families of Europe being woven through the story. It is sort of like a Danielle Steel book without the sex, only merchant's scandals. Is any one familiar with it to know how accurate the facts are? Has anyone ever come across this before? Lisa --part1_11e.198657d2.2aff3d50_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just come across a delightful book called "The Romance of French Weaving" by Paul Rodier published in 1936, copyright 1931, last checked out from the college library in 1986.  It is a narrative of the history of French weaving and the growth of the textile industry in general set amongst a picturesque landscape with the royal families of Europe being woven through the story.  It is sort of like a Danielle Steel book without the sex, only merchant's scandals.  Is any one familiar with it to know how accurate the facts are?  Has anyone ever come across this before?

Lisa

 --part1_11e.198657d2.2aff3d50_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 00:01:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21692 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:01:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA523NP016842; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA521Sp011910; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAA516Sp011675 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p16.directcon.net [206.170.184.115]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gAA50iTF019538 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:00:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021109210454.00ecfbd0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margo's Patterns Website Update In-Reply-To: <200211100340.TAA13240@gw.retro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:04:54 -0800 Status: RO OK, this is Wayne again, doing triage on the new "Margo's Patterns" website. My sincere thanks to Lee, Diana, Heather, and others giving me feedback on the site. It looks like some people are having some trouble accessing it at all, and others are having some other glitches. There is no scrolling on the navbar on the left because I set the frame properties to NOSCROLL. I figured the extra width (and ugliness) of a scroll bar would be unwelcome, and people with screen resolutions bigger than 1024 x 768 could see the whole thing anyway -- that's the display setting on the computer I used to develop this website. If a lot of people think this would be better with a scroll bar enabled there, I'll put it in. For now, I need to know a little more: How many people are having trouble accessing the website? And are they getting "You don't have permission" messages like Diana, or are there other error messages as well? (That seems to be a problem between her browser and the Java script for the counter. Since the counter doesn't seem to be working anyway, I think I'll take it out until I find another.) Is the whole website (except the counter) working for anybody? Please reply directly to Margo@Margospatterns.com, rather than to the h-costume list. Thanks for your help; it's appreciated. Wayne > >> Hi, this is Wayne, Margo's husband. >> >> You wrote: >> >> >Margo when I try to access the new site this is the message I recieve. >> > >> >Forbidden >> > >> >You don't have permission to access /m/margoanderson.js on this server. >> > >> >Diana >> Diana, what URL are you using? When I go to http://www.margospatterns.com, >> it works fine from here. Are you perhaps using an old bookmark? Because I >> took the old web pages down when I put up the new site -- necessary, >> because some of the pages have the same names. >> >> Try using the URL above, and let me know if you still have problems. > >I've seen that error happen before if the browser chokes on your JavaScript >code. Older versions of Netscape are more prone to it (but suprisingly, >my old version doesn't, so that's not it this time). My version of IE has >an odd problem that I've also seen before. The menu in your side frame >doesn't have a scrollbar. This is bad, because not everyone has the same >size screen. The last few entries are simply inaccessable if you can't make >the window large enough. That and the tiny fontsize problem usually both >show up when someone has a large monitor that they're working on. It doesn't >occur to the developer that some of the rest of us still use smaller screens. > >Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 >Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris >Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. >"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 06:40:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23242 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:40:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAABf6NP007363; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 04:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAABf1Sp025116; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 04:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA6GLPBh019461 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17267 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:21:19 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <003401c285b0$a640d440$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01C2857E.5B7BAAC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] New historic patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:22:06 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C2857E.5B7BAAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Simplicity and Butterick Holiday pattern catalogs arrived at my JoAnn's = Fabrics and Crafts store. Simplicity has a new trio of patterns from = "The Fashion Historian" series by Martha McCain. #5724 is a Civil = War-era ball gown. #5726 is the coordinating shift, corset, and = hoopskirt. #5740 is headwear to coordinate with McCain's previous Civil = War era patterns. =20 Butterrick has a ladies Revolutionary War era pattern, gown, caraco, and = petticoat. In cut, it appears more modern interpretation of the real = thing, but there is some boning in the bodices. =20 Once they go on sale $1.99 or $.99, the Buttericks especially might be = worth it to those that can take a modern pattern that fits and recut it = to the correct historic lines(I do this for dolls all the time, so that = method in dolly sizes works for me) Cindy Abel ILL Coordinator Health Sciences Library Creighton University 1912 CALIFORNIA ST OMAHA NE 68178-0210 VOICE: 402.280.5144 FAX: 402.280.5134 brujne@creighton.edu 1912 CALIFORNIA ST OMAHA NE 68178-0210 VOICE:402-280-5144 FAX: 402-280-5134 brujne@creighton.edu Omaha NE 68178-0210 Phone: 402. 280-5144 Fax: 402.280-5134 ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C2857E.5B7BAAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Simplicity and Butterick Holiday pattern catalogs = arrived at=20 my JoAnn's Fabrics and Crafts store.  Simplicity has a new trio of = patterns=20 from "The Fashion Historian" series by Martha McCain. #5724 is a Civil = War-era=20 ball gown. #5726 is the coordinating shift, corset, and hoopskirt.  = #5740=20 is headwear to coordinate with McCain's previous Civil War era = patterns. =20
 
Butterrick has a ladies Revolutionary War era = pattern, gown,=20 caraco, and petticoat. In cut, it appears more modern interpretation of = the real=20 thing, but there is some boning in the bodices. 
 
Once they go on sale $1.99 or $.99, the Buttericks = especially=20 might be worth it to those that can take a modern pattern that fits and = recut it=20 to the correct historic lines(I do this for dolls all the time, so that = method=20 in dolly sizes works for me)
Cindy Abel
ILL Coordinator
Health Sciences=20 Library
Creighton University
1912 CALIFORNIA ST
OMAHA NE=20 68178-0210
VOICE: 402.280.5144
FAX: 402.280.5134
brujne@creighton.edu
1912 = CALIFORNIA=20 ST
OMAHA NE 68178-0210
VOICE:402-280-5144
FAX:  =20 402-280-5134
brujne@creighton.edu
Omaha = NE=20 68178-0210
Phone: 402. 280-5144
Fax:    =20 402.280-5134
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C2857E.5B7BAAC0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 06:41:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23249 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:41:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAABfpNP007386; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 04:41:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAABfpSp025276; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 04:41:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from dci.doncaster.on.ca (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA9CtmSp008129 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 05:55:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (ip46-170.ott.dsl.istop.com [66.11.170.46]) by dci.doncaster.on.ca (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gA9Cu1kO013689 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 07:56:01 -0500 Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18AV9P-0002Vx-00 for ; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 07:55:47 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit In-Reply-To: <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> References: <00eb01c287a6$618ac340$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 07:55:47 -0500 Status: RO Theresa wrote: > If I understand this site correctly, this pair combined efforts to pose > modern people in period clothing and historic sites? > > I'm a little conflicted about this agenda: on the one hand, the people > themselves _look_ modern, as do the poses (kind of that contrived > spontaneity thing popular in some photographers' studios), so are we, > the viewing public, supposed to understand it as a historically accurate > view of how people behaved in natural settings? Hrm, yeah, I agree that the people look modern. I find myself thinking "what is it that makes them look modern?" and seeing how I can apply it to my own costume-related activities. The things that stand out for me, are the childrens' hairstyles, the way people are standing/sitting with what looks like the wrong posture, and the fact that the photographs are sepia-toned and meant to look old-fashioned and yet they catch people in moments that would have looked like a blur using 19th century photography techniques. I thought that people sitting for photographs at that time had to stand totally still for quite a long time for the long exposures? K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 07:48:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23398 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:48:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAACn2NP009250; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 05:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAACn1Sp007157; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 05:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAACmMSp007092 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 05:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f59.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.89]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 03C614806C9 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:48:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c288b7$d34b5f00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20021109210454.00ecfbd0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Margo's Patterns Website Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:51:01 +0100 Status: RO Hi Margo, Your new website worked fine for me. May i congratulate you with it, it looks great! Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 07:57:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23434 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:57:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAACw2NP009473; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 05:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAACw1Sp008469; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 05:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAACvoSp008432 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 05:57:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f59.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.89]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 17832480AC3 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:57:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001b01c288b9$26a17d00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <002301c287f2$f0717d00$605f22d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] On line exhibition - Reforming Fashion, 1850-1914 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:00:31 +0100 Status: RO http://costume.osu.edu/Reforming_Fashion/trouble_with_fashion.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" Dear Stevie. The costumes are wonderfull. Take a look at this corset, (Url) above black satin corset. It is incredible, oh my how they must have suffered! The reproduktion bustle on the bottom is well made, but it is a pitty, they made it two narrow! They did not get the right proportions, this is a pitty, because they made a great job! Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 08:41:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23736 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:41:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAADg2NP010662; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAADg0Sp015540; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAADflSp015488 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:41:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f59.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.89]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id ED9A25EE886 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:41:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c288bf$4c14ae30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] dress diary updated Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:44:31 +0100 Status: RO Hi there, For those of you who would like to follow my dress diary, it has ben updated: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/robealafrancaise.htm I tryed to use the blitz on my digital camera. but the embroidery got much two bright, still you can se how it looks, even if it is rather dull weather here in Denmark. Many greetings Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 09:03:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23902 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:03:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAE41NP011264; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAE40Sp019431; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAE3RSp019303 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:03:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a29.in-tch.com [66.62.107.9]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAADluT25745 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:47:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DCE673F.C74EC0BA@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated References: <000d01c288bf$4c14ae30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:03:43 -0700 Status: RO Oh, my, Bjarne....beautiful as always! Do you use a hoop or frame to hold the fabric while you're doing the embroidery? Did you end up having enough green thread? How many hours does it take you to _do_ all that? I'm not nearly as fast as you are...my bits get done 10 mins. here, 15 mins. there, etc., although I try to dedicate an hour or two a night to it... Also, it's dull and dreary weather here in Montana, too, and as we're, what, 8000 miles apart? I rather think maybe it's because it's November? and not because you're in Denmark, per se? Besides, that embroidery would brighten up any winter day..... --Sue, taking a break from her blackwork Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi there, > For those of you who would like to follow my dress diary, it has ben > updated: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/robealafrancaise.htm > I tryed to use the blitz on my digital camera. but the embroidery got much > two bright, still you can se how it looks, even if it is rather dull weather > here in Denmark. > > Many greetings > > Bjarne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 09:03:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23906 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:03:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAE4MNP011289; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:04:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAE4LSp019529; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAE3wSp019410 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:03:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-8-218.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.8.218] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Asgv-000054-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:03:57 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c288c2$86c3b140$da0823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <002301c287f2$f0717d00$605f22d9@dan> <001b01c288b9$26a17d00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] On line exhibition - Reforming Fashion, 1850-1914 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:07:38 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > http://costume.osu.edu/Reforming_Fashion/trouble_with_fashion.htm > > The costumes are wonderfull. Take a look at this corset, (Url) above black > satin corset. It is incredible, oh my how they must have suffered! I'm glad you liked the costumes, but as for the corset, Ouch! I walked over to the Museum of London yesterday to see if I could get some ideas for my Georgian ball-gown, and had another look at the Victorian acrobat's corset whilst I was there. Not only did she corset down to a tiny waist but also performed on the high-wire and trapeze in it. Ouch! I say again. > The reproduktion bustle on the bottom is well made, but it is a pitty, they > made it two narrow! They did not get the right proportions, this is a pitty, > because they made a great job! I have no intention of ever wearing a bustle, but I should be interested to know how you calculate the width of it for it. Does the heigjht of the person make a difference? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 09:38:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24075 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:38:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAEdKNP012333; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:39:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAEdISp026895; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAEcwSp026820 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:38:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-8-218.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.8.218] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AtEn-0000ye-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:38:57 +0000 Message-ID: <003e01c288c7$6a3f54c0$da0823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <000d01c288bf$4c14ae30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:42:37 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > For those of you who would like to follow my dress diary, it has ben > updated: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/robealafrancaise.htm This is very lovely work, Bjarne. The colour painting http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/savoy.htm shows what look like pearls swagged on the panels. Is that so, and were pearls still worn towards the end of the century? I enquire because I have mumble kilos of freshwater pearls originally intended for Elizabethan. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 10:26:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24267 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:26:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFP3NP013849; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFP1Sp005964; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFOgSp005872 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.25.30a1effc (4402) for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:24:30 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <25.30a1effc.2affd42e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mid 1800's Russian To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_25.30a1effc.2affd42e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:24:30 EST Status: RO --part1_25.30a1effc.2affd42e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/2002 10:28:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, landofoz@netins.net writes: > I dye lots of things at home and don't find it to be a pain at all. I > wouldn't recommend a course of action if I thought it was "a pain" or > inappropriate in other ways. > > For me, dyeing something is preferable to a 45 minute drive by interstate > highway to the nearest Goodwill store. > Ahhhhh...Good Will is just down the street from me. And I have a small kitchen so dying is definitely a pain...for me. The infinitely subtle dynamics of costuming..... --part1_25.30a1effc.2affd42e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/2002 10:28:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, landofoz@netins.net writes:


I dye lots of things at home and don't find it to be a pain at all. I wouldn't recommend a course of action if I thought it was "a pain" or inappropriate in other ways.

For me, dyeing something is preferable to a 45 minute drive by interstate highway to the nearest Goodwill store.


Ahhhhh...Good Will is just down the street from me. And I have a small kitchen so dying is definitely a pain...for me.

The infinitely subtle dynamics of costuming..... --part1_25.30a1effc.2affd42e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 10:34:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24337 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:34:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFZ2NP014246; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFZ1Sp007836; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFYUSp007735 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:34:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.164]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A63462644F7 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:34:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000b01c288cf$0c410230$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <000d01c288bf$4c14ae30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <003e01c288c7$6a3f54c0$da0823d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:37:16 +0100 Status: RO Dear Stevie. I have thoaght much of this decoration on the dress. I am not sure if this is pearls or it is embroidered to look like pearls. But it stands out as if it is real pearls. I have seen embroidery where it was embroidered pearls with shadow and everything, to give the impression, as if it was real pearls. How much would it weight with sead pearls? Dont you think it would be two heavy? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated > Bjarne wrote: > > > For those of you who would like to follow my dress diary, it has ben > > updated: > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/robealafrancaise.htm > > This is very lovely work, Bjarne. The colour painting > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/savoy.htm shows what look like pearls > swagged on the panels. Is that so, and were pearls still worn towards > the end of the century? I enquire because I have mumble kilos of > freshwater pearls originally intended for Elizabethan. > > best wishes > Stevie > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 10:54:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28445 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFt5NP015070; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFt1Sp011990; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rhenium (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFsQSp011849 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:54:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-8-218.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.8.218] helo=dan) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AuPp-0007j5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:54:25 +0000 Message-ID: <005001c288d1$f5687040$da0823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <000d01c288bf$4c14ae30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <003e01c288c7$6a3f54c0$da0823d9@dan> <000b01c288cf$0c410230$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:57:56 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne wrote, about : http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/savoy.htm > I have thoaght much of this decoration on the dress. I am not sure if this > is pearls or it is embroidered to look like pearls. But it stands out as if > it is real pearls. Yes, that was my thought. > I have seen embroidery where it was embroidered pearls with shadow and > everything, to give the impression, as if it was real pearls. > How much would it weight with sead pearls? > Dont you think it would be two heavy? The scale of these pearls is much too big for seed pearls, but if you want to do a rough calculation of how many of those swags there are on the dress I can try weighing some for you. My pearls are loose strung, so it's not a major job:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 10:58:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28463 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:58:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFx0NP015206; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFx0Sp012943; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAFw1Sp012747 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.164]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B258F48014D for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:57:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c288d2$547700b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <000d01c288bf$4c14ae30$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3DCE673F.C74EC0BA@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:00:45 +0100 Status: RO Hello Sue. I use a large frame. I baught one from Barnyarns in York. It is called a roller tilt frame. I can sit comfortable in my favourite sofa and push the frame to a comfortable angle. Then i have all my threads and sissors to my right and i am very difficult to move away from this :-) I do spend a lot of time with it. Having a hard fysical work, it is very relaxing for me to sit with the embroidery. I take care of old people, old senile people so it is both fysically and mentally very hard sometimes. I rarely go out to dine or to drink coffe, neither do i go to the cinemas. I do go to the opera 3-4 times in a winter season, but most nights i stay home and work with my hobby. It is wonderfull to relax this way, and i can follow the television or listen to all my classical music cd's You must realise that i dont have pets and children to take care of, so i have a lot of sparetime for myself. It is me who goes shopping and makes the dinner every day, but this is the only duty i have. The rest of time is mine alone! Yes it is the november weather and light, very depressing. They have already broaght some christmas catalogs to the doors. Apropos the thread, no there was some days i missed the green, but i have had it. I really regreats that i did not use this Eterna thread for my embroidered suit. If i had used this, i would have finished it much quicker. When i look at this thread i used for it from Pipers, i cant keeping say to myself that it was really really chrasy of me to use such a thin thread. No wonder it took me so long time to make it. Still, we all grow wiser for each day, dont we :-) Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated > Oh, my, Bjarne....beautiful as always! > Do you use a hoop or frame to hold the fabric while you're doing the > embroidery? Did you end up having enough green thread? How many hours > does it take you to _do_ all that? I'm not nearly as fast as you > are...my bits get done 10 mins. here, 15 mins. there, etc., although I > try to dedicate an hour or two a night to it... > Also, it's dull and dreary weather here in Montana, too, and as we're, > what, 8000 miles apart? I rather think maybe it's because it's > November? and not because you're in Denmark, per se? > Besides, that embroidery would brighten up any winter day..... > --Sue, taking a break from her blackwork > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > Hi there, > > For those of you who would like to follow my dress diary, it has ben > > updated: > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/robealafrancaise.htm > > I tryed to use the blitz on my digital camera. but the embroidery got much > > two bright, still you can se how it looks, even if it is rather dull weather > > here in Denmark. > > > > Many greetings > > > > Bjarne > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 11:01:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28489 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:01:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAG22NP015338; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAG21Sp013577; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAG1WSp013463 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.164]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 556AD480472 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:01:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c288d2$d404cfb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] dress diary updated Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:04:19 +0100 Status: RO The scale of these pearls is much too big for seed pearls, but if you want to do a rough calculation of how many of those swags there are on the dress I can try weighing some for you. My pearls are loose strung, so it's not a major job:-) Sorry Stewie I didnt mean seed pearls, but fresh water pearls. No i dont want you to calculate, i only wondered generally if it would not be two heavy for the skirts. What do you think? Bjarne best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 11:30:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28619 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:30:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAGV2NP016408; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAGV1Sp019478; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAGUZSp019408 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-8-218.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.8.218] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Auyo-0003yP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:30:34 +0000 Message-ID: <005901c288d7$0213e680$da0823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <000f01c288d2$d404cfb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:34:10 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > I didnt mean seed pearls, but fresh water pearls. > No i dont want you to calculate, i only wondered generally if it would not > be two heavy for the skirts. > What do you think? I think that if the original skirt would had pearls on it then it would be good to use them on a modern reproduction; your exquisite workmanship deserves pearls:-) Pearls are heavy, but so is metal and that was used extensively also. I assume that the silk fabric would have been interlined for strength, and that the embroidery would have been onto panels perhaps of some stronger material? I have made metal trim of mumble kilos, also, which I thought I might be able to use on late 18th-early 19th. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 11:48:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28664 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:48:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAGn2NP017064; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAGn1Sp023386; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAGmGSp023168 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:48:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021110164811.MOWN1315.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ>; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:48:11 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: , , , , , <75years@yahoogroups.com>, Message-ID: <000001c288d4$1dadd110$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Yahoo's at it again Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:13:32 -0500 Status: RO Please forgive the crossposting, but I wanted to let everyone know that Yahoo is up to their old dirty tricks again. If you don't want to be tracked all over cyberspace, take a look at this page: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html There is an opt out button included, but you will have to do it on each computer and browser that you use. I realize that not all lists are Yahoo lists, but most of us are on at least one of them. Remember to check your personal preferences page occasionally as well. Yahoo sometimes takes the liberty of clicking all the "send me crap" boxes without our knowledge or permission. Pax, Linda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 12:34:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29036 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:34:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAHZ4NP018883; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAHZ1Sp003597; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAHYsSp003551 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:34:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-8-218.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.8.218] helo=dan) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Avz0-0000ZW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:34:50 +0000 Message-ID: <007101c288df$fc31c580$da0823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?Q?robe_retrouss=E8e_dans_les_poches?= Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:38:29 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I've been looking at an example of this on the Kyoto Costume Institute: http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html it's the featured gown on the 1780's digital archive in white and red pekin striped silk. Can anyone point me to more information, and more pictures of this type of gown? Many thanks and best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 13:34:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29527 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:34:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAIXENP021389; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:33:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAIX1Sp015980; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAIWqSp015950 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:32:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.175] (pm5-175.eos.net [205.133.149.175]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18589 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:32:50 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021109190010.28378.43053.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: fashion braces Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:30:25 -0500 Status: RO Lee: I guess I took your words too literally, always a danger with email. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 13:40:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29556 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:40:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAIe2NP021759; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAIe1Sp017569; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAIcxSp017313 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net14sp195.directcon.net [209.76.47.195]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gAAIcQTF027877 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:38:27 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021110104234.00c66250@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: <25.30a1effc.2affd42e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: [h-cost] Re: Website corrections Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:42:34 -0800 Status: RO Hi, everybody, it's Wayne again. First, my thanks to all of you who responded with feedback on the new website. It's been a huge help, and you'll see I'm taking your comments seriously. I've made the following changes so far: 1) I've removed the Java counter script, from both the hi-resolution and low-resolution versions of the home page. It looks like the company that hosted the counter (when I first activated it, months ago) is offline now, so it's not working. As far as I can tell, MS Internet Explorer simply ignores it and goes on, but Netscape chokes if it can't access the site. So, since it wasn't doing any good anyway, it's gone. I'll be looking for a new counter soon. 2) I've enabled scrolling on the navbar on the left in the hi-res version. It's set to AUTO, which means it should give a scroll bar when the browser can't show the whole frame. Since I made the navbar graphic a lot bigger than it needed to be, to give space for future expansion, it'll show the scrollbar for everybody, even with big monitors. If you scroll down you'll see a lot of white space down there. 3) I've corrected the links from Margo's bio to her personal website. The problem was that I had left the "http://" out of the URL, so it was trying to find that URL in the local directory. I know Egroups has been swallowed by Yahoo Groups, and I'll change that link in the navbar, but since the navbar is an image-mapped graphic, it'll take a bit longer than just tweaking code. Also, the links to correction, layout, etc, will be added to the "Notes and Addenda" page. Thanks again for all your help. Another round of feedback, telling me if any problems remain, would be welcomed. Wayne "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 13:55:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29628 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:55:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAIs3NP022454; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAIs1Sp020672; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAIrDSp020521 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:53:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.5 (built Sep 23 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5D00CVMJ4I77@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:53:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DCEAAB4.9040902@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Mrgo's site.. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:51:32 -0600 Status: RO Wow, You did a fantastic job... Also, I absolutely love your picture of dissatisfaction. :D -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 14:44:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29863 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:44:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAJh5NP024743; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAJh1Sp002178; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAAJgkSp002103 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:42:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27300 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 19:42:45 -0000 Received: from 206-105-173-25.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.25) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 19:42:45 -0000 Message-ID: <3DCEB65A.AF20A2BD@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Website corrections References: <3.0.6.32.20021110104234.00c66250@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:41:14 -0500 Status: RO > > Hi, everybody, it's Wayne again. > Thanks again for all your help. Another round of feedback, telling me if > any problems remain, would be welcomed. Wayne it works beautifully!! Great looking site. Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 17:42:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30856 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:42:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAMfBNP003058; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:41:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAMf1aF014965; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAAMeqaF014938 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:40:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f79.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.121]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 61A0A263B11 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:40:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c2890a$a5a7a1a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <007101c288df$fc31c580$da0823d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_robe_retrouss=E8e_dans_les_poches?= Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:43:51 +0100 Status: RO Dear Stevie. This is a polonaise dress. Very pretty and very shocking in colour. There are other examples of this type of dress in Janet Arnold's patterns of fashion, also in Norah Waugh's The Cut of Womens Clothes. If you would like, i could scan some patterns, pictures and send you. The polonaise dress had two drawstrings inside the overskirt, at the back where it pulled up the skirt so that it draped the dress in 3 swags. A bumroll was worn with this type of dress, wich had the greatest padding center back. It originally had its fashion from a robe a la francaise where the two snips of the overskirt was pulled trough the pocket slits and draped the overskirt in a similar matter. Are you looking for some outfits for the Bath Ball? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 6:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] robe retroussèe dans les poches > Hi all, > I've been looking at an example of this on the Kyoto Costume > Institute: > http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html > it's the featured gown on the 1780's digital archive in white and red > pekin striped silk. Can anyone point me to more information, and more > pictures of this type of gown? > Many thanks and best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 19:30:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31326 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:30:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB0V4NP008352; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB0V1aF011302; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from x11.quik.com (x11.quik.com [216.176.28.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB0U8aF011114 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:30:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from downstairs (ip68-10-170-42.hr.hr.cox.net [68.10.170.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by x11.quik.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAB0U671013226 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:30:07 -0800 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] dress diary updated Message-ID: <000c01c28919$e2d6a260$0200a8c0@hr.cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <000701c288d2$547700b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:32:58 -0500 Status: RO HI Bjarne, I can't tell you how impressed I am with your wonderful embroideries. I just wanted to know the difference between the threads you are using. I have heard of this Eterna thread but never actually seen or used it. Your impressions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Anne (who has been lurking on this site for over a year and is thrilled with all the neat information and gorgeous garb) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 22:31:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32052 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:31:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB3VANP017596; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:31:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB3V1aF020750; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB3UJaF020611 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:30:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.132] (pm4-132.eos.net [205.133.149.132]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26764 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:30:17 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021110163100.19477.98242.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: dress diary Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:28:00 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne: Thanks so much for sharing your beautiful work again! You have such amazing talents, you are like all the 17th century tailoring and sewing specialists in one person. I think it's easy to see how much you love the work. I like my life very much, although what I do leaves me very little time for concentrating on any one project. I love embroidery and hope to do it again someday, but I am very inferior to you. But sometimes I really envy people who can concentrate on one thing for long periods of time. It is very different from what I am able to do! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 10 22:38:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32085 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:38:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB3d1NP018148; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB3d0aF022420; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB3cQaF022290 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:38:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.2d.265fb299 (3972) for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:37:59 -0500 (EST) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: <2d.265fb299.2b008017@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_2d.265fb299.2b008017_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10638 Subject: [h-cost] Butterick 3648 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:37:59 EST Status: RO --part1_2d.265fb299.2b008017_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This pattern reminds me of the movie A Christmas Carol but what date is that set in? Anyone know? What date can this be used for? Butterick 3648 Thanks, Kelly --part1_2d.265fb299.2b008017_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This pattern reminds me of the movie A Christmas Carol but what date is that set in?  Anyone know?  What date can this be used for?  Butterick 3648
Thanks,
Kelly --part1_2d.265fb299.2b008017_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 00:17:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32446 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:17:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB5GjNP023468; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:16:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB5E1aF014657; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB5D7aF014351 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:13:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.26.30cce013 (16930) for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:12:56 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <26.30cce013.2b009658@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 3648 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_26.30cce013.2b009658_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:12:56 EST Status: RO --part1_26.30cce013.2b009658_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/10/2002 10:39:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, M311@aol.com writes: > This pattern reminds me of the movie A Christmas Carol but what date is that > set in? Anyone know? What date can this be used for? Butterick 3648 > Not bad...though no wing tip collars in this period. It IS "A Christmas Carol" since it comes with a Ghost of Christmas Present costume pattern as well. Let's see...."A Christmas Carol" was published in 1843 or 1845....there abouts. So if Scrooge is in his 50s [you don't want him too old! What good would the lessons be?] that makes the Belle scenes around the 1810s [I once was wardrobe master for a production where the Fezzywig party scene was 1760s!!!! This make Scrooge about 90!!!!]. These are your 2 main periods. [Christmas Future is usually only one or two years into the future] --part1_26.30cce013.2b009658_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/10/2002 10:39:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, M311@aol.com writes:


This pattern reminds me of the movie A Christmas Carol but what date is that set in?  Anyone know?  What date can this be used for?  Butterick 3648


Not bad...though no wing tip collars in this period.

It IS "A Christmas Carol" since it comes with a Ghost of Christmas Present costume pattern as well.

Let's see...."A Christmas Carol" was published in 1843 or 1845....there abouts. So if Scrooge is in his 50s [you don't want him too old! What good would the lessons be?] that makes the Belle scenes around the 1810s [I once was wardrobe master for a production where the Fezzywig party scene was 1760s!!!! This make Scrooge about 90!!!!]. These are your 2 main periods. [Christmas Future is usually only one or two years into the future] --part1_26.30cce013.2b009658_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 00:57:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA32565 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:57:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB5v3NP025541; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB5v2aF024209; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd2mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB5uqaF024161 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:56:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd5mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr3so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.144]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5E00IG1DUN1A@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:56:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml4so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.148]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5E00EBZDUNZ6@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:56:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from orb.shaw.ca (h24-68-29-21.vc.shawcable.net [24.68.29.21]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5E00MCVDUMNE@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:56:47 -0700 (MST) From: kris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit In-reply-to: X-Sender: ionization@shawmail To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20021110215602.00b35c70@shawmail> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> <00eb01c287a6$618ac340$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:56:46 -0800 Status: RO Could someone perhaps post the link? it's not included here, and I must have missed the original post in my (yay!) computer upgrade.. kris At 07:55 AM 09/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Theresa wrote: > > If I understand this site correctly, this pair combined efforts to pose > > modern people in period clothing and historic sites? > > > > I'm a little conflicted about this agenda: on the one hand, the people > > themselves _look_ modern, as do the poses (kind of that contrived > > spontaneity thing popular in some photographers' studios), so are we, > > the viewing public, supposed to understand it as a historically accurate > > view of how people behaved in natural settings? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 01:14:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32632 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:14:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB6F2NP026290; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB6F1aF028104; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB6E2aF027882 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AAA9CAC10236; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:14:01 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AAA413E200C4; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:13:56 -0600 Message-ID: <00ba01c28949$7fd6d9c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> <00eb01c287a6$618ac340$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20021110215602.00b35c70@shawmail> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:13:47 -0500 Status: RO Kris, Here it is http://www.fittingtimeforwomen.com/html/index.html Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 04:20:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23817 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:20:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9L3NP003711; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9L1aF010598; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9KhaF010532 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from p417-tnt8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.214.163] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18BAkK-000640-00; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:20:41 +1300 Message-ID: <003301c28963$9c4c9f30$a3d6adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <200211080850.AAA02936@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] braces & corsets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:20:42 +1300 Status: RO However, > my finger splints have gotten so many comments that I'm fairly sure I could > make money selling them as fashion accessories. They're a slightly different > design from the ones on this page: > http://www.silverringsplint.com/hyperextension.html I need some rather nicer versions of the splints for my triggering, these look better, but I'm thinking I might just use what I have now and work on something myself. http://www.silverringsplint.com/triggering.html And yes, triggering is pretty nasty and painful. Most of my fingers trigger during the worst of my flares, but my right middle finger hasn't stopped for months now. I still wake up and can't use that finger. Gets better during the day, but it still triggers. heheh, actually my hand physio got her student to come and see as it's not something she's likely to see too often before getting out there and needing to treat people with it. Course there's bugger all physio can do to help, immobilising and reducing inflamation are about all you can do. > Heh. I've been offending people lately with my, "That's right, I'm crippled. > Now get over it, I have." attitude. Which means I've also been thumbing my > nose at people who say my costume adaptations aren't period. When they quit > getting vaccinations and taking antibiotics, I'll take that part seriously. lol! I just get annoyed that people can't see you simply cannot be 100% period correct. Not only are we too far from the time and have our perceptions coloured by our own experiences and collected histories, but getting materials to be untainted by modern technology is nigh on impossible. There is always another line that someone will snark you from;) I do quite like the idea of experimenting with what could possibly be done in perod. But I'm not giving up things that will cause me to be deformed before need be:) btw, I knew your comments weren't one thought, it is a problem when communicating without the inflections, body language and indeed pauses that occur in speech faec to face or even over the phone. It;s why I tend to over use smilies and ...'s :) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 04:21:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24071 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:21:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9LUNP003746; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:21:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9LUaF010783; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9KraF010560 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gAB9NK024745.; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:23:20 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:20:51 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAB9KraF010560 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:20:22 +0000 Status: RO Didn't some 19th century women wear a washable edging tacked to the hem of their skirts? Though I suppose this was more to gather dust; it wouldn't stop rain wicking up. I seem to remember in Jane Austen's "Emma" there's something about the gentry not going out because of bad weather (though of course it's OK to send a servant with a message to say you're not coming!) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 04:30:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06032 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:30:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9V2NP004153; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9V1aF012650; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9UNaF012565 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gAB9Wp025402.; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:32:51 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:30:22 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAB9UNaF012565 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:30:04 +0000 Status: RO Maryann wrote: >And, I never understood the thread about capes. So are you saying that >people didn't wear capes ever? I am doing Elizabethan now, should I >forgo the cape? What I said was that I had been told, in a talk on 17th century costume, that there are few period illustrastions of women in cloaks (men certainly wore them). Someone else said the same, but we thought it surprising that a cloak would not be worn in wet weather. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 04:38:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA18084 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:38:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9d2NP004464; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9d0aF014057; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAB9cNaF013940 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:38:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gAB9ep025835.; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:40:51 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:38:22 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAB9cNaF013940 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:38:11 +0000 Status: RO Nicole wrote: >Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment >clues while still loving one's costumes? I have to say that I love reenactment for its own sake and the costumes are just the means to an end. Of course I hate bad weather like everyone else (though I've not been too unlucky this year) and I increasingly dislike long car journeys, but I love being in the open air with like-minded friends and I enjoy talking to the public (a few really interested ones make it all worth while). Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 07:11:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21314 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:11:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABCC3NP008580; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 05:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABCC0aF012481; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 05:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABCBOaF012346 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 05:11:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AD974562036C; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:07:51 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c2897b$d18481a0$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> <00eb01c287a6$618ac340$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20021110215602.00b35c70@shawmail> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:13:59 -0500 Status: RO The link: http://www.fittingtimeforwomen.com/html/page3.html Lloyd Mitchell (for Kathleen) ----- Original Message ----- From: "kris" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit > Could someone perhaps post the link? it's not included here, and I must > have missed the original post in my (yay!) computer upgrade.. > > kris > > At 07:55 AM 09/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >Theresa wrote: > > > If I understand this site correctly, this pair combined efforts to pose > > > modern people in period clothing and historic sites? > > > > > > I'm a little conflicted about this agenda: on the one hand, the people > > > themselves _look_ modern, as do the poses (kind of that contrived > > > spontaneity thing popular in some photographers' studios), so are we, > > > the viewing public, supposed to understand it as a historically accurate > > > view of how people behaved in natural settings? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 08:26:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25631 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:26:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABDQ6NP010875; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 06:26:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABDQ1aF028140; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 06:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABDPpaF028115 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 06:25:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id FAA03489 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 05:47:23 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211111347.FAA03489@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] braces & corsets Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 05:47:23 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > From: "michaela" [...] > I need some rather nicer versions of the splints for my triggering, these > look better, but I'm thinking I might just use what I have now and work on > something myself. > http://www.silverringsplint.com/triggering.html Okay, I took some quick and dirty pics of the splints with my digital camera. For a 10 minute webpage, it's not bad: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/RingSplint.html The bandaid on my finger is part of my lesson for the week: Never teach the kitten that your fingers are play toys. Especially if you haven't trimmed his claws in a couple weeks. [yeep!] Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 11:48:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27148 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:48:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABGm5NP026095; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:48:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABGm2I7012950; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABGlfI7012758 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.38.310f21d6 (4004) for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:47:29 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <38.310f21d6.2b013921@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion braces To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_38.310f21d6.2b013921_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:47:29 EST Status: RO --part1_38.310f21d6.2b013921_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All! Is anyone on this list in a wheelchair, either part time or full time? Or do you know somebody who is? I was just wondering, what sort of concessions do you make for your period clothes? (Any period will do.) I have a good friend who wants to return to the SCA (and eventually Regency/Victorian/Edwardian stuff as well) but she is now wheelchair bound and is having difficulty figuring out what concessions she will have to make for her old costumes. She used to try to be very authentic, and did almost strictly Elizabethan clothing. She wishes to continue both veins as much as possible. So I am trying to help her make adjustments. I told her I would ask this list, especially since we seem to be having this conversation anyway. Any help would be appreciated, since I am at a complete loss. Thank you in advance, Kit --part1_38.310f21d6.2b013921_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All!

Is anyone on this list in a wheelchair, either part time or full time?  Or do you know somebody who is?  I was just wondering, what sort of concessions do you make for your period clothes?  (Any period will do.)

I have a good friend who wants to return to the SCA (and eventually Regency/Victorian/Edwardian stuff as well) but she is now wheelchair bound and is having difficulty figuring out what concessions she will have to make for her old costumes.  She used to try to be very authentic, and did almost strictly Elizabethan clothing.  She wishes to continue both veins as much as possible.  So I am trying to help her make adjustments.  I told her I would ask this list, especially since we seem to be having this conversation anyway.

Any help would be appreciated, since I am at a complete loss.

Thank you in advance,
Kit --part1_38.310f21d6.2b013921_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 12:01:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27295 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:01:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABH07NP027382; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABH05I7019727; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gABGxRI7019333 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:59:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWhm9s8qkc8w7Ob5DUbGlAJ6ot0sqEiYZAw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHCPN8NC; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:58:46 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion braces Message-ID: <20021111.115654.-411617.8.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_56bb.64b8.6a73 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,8-9,16-18,19-32767 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:56:53 -0500 Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_56bb.64b8.6a73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<>> I have a very good friend who is wheelchair bound and she does both earlier medieval and Elizabethan. She found that skirts kept getting caught in her wheels, but now she just uses a skirt (or skirts) fronts. She puts it on like an apron and I didn't know for a year that it wasn't a compleat skirt. The only reason I found out last week was that she needed help getting it tied in back. Don't know if this helps or not, but I found it interesting. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender ----__JNP_000_56bb.64b8.6a73 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<<Is anyone on this list in a wheelchair, = either=20 part time or full=20 time?>>>      
 
  I have a very good friend who is wheelchair bound and she does = both=20 earlier medieval and Elizabethan.  She found that skirts kept getting= =20 caught in her wheels, but now she just uses a skirt (or skirts) fronts.&= nbsp;=20 She puts it on like an apron and I didn't know for a year that it wasn't=20 a compleat skirt.  The only reason I found out last week was that= she=20 needed help getting it tied in back.  Don't know if this helps or not,= but=20 I found it interesting.
 
Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
----__JNP_000_56bb.64b8.6a73-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 12:10:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27392 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:10:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABHA3NP028450; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABHA0I7025354; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABH9MI7024888 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.10d.1ab85c6a (4004) for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:09:11 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <10d.1ab85c6a.2b013e37@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,,pattern stuff To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10d.1ab85c6a.2b013e37_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:09:11 EST Status: RO --part1_10d.1ab85c6a.2b013e37_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/02 8:17:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, LindaJThompson@comcast.net writes: > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list together > and send them > all at once. Linda, I would love to get a copy! Thanks, Kit --part1_10d.1ab85c6a.2b013e37_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/02 8:17:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, LindaJThompson@comcast.net writes:


If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list together and send them
all at once.


Linda,

I would love to get a copy!

Thanks,
Kit --part1_10d.1ab85c6a.2b013e37_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 11 12:26:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27647 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:26:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABHQ4NP029960; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:26:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABHQ2I7004039; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABHPBI7003588 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:25:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.108.1aca7b1c (4004) for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:24:53 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <108.1aca7b1c.2b0141e5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tired of re-enactment To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_108.1aca7b1c.2b0141e5_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:24:53 EST Status: RO --part1_108.1aca7b1c.2b0141e5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/02 12:23:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, MelanieWilson@bigfoot.com writes: > >Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues > while still loving one's costumes? I believe that everyone does at some point in time. For me I can clock it. Every 5 years I get tired of reenactment. (Whether it be the time or money constrait, the politics or the sh**ty-attitudes of other people.) Then depending on my level of involvement, I either back out to a token event here or there, or pullout completely, getting rid of all my costumes and "get on with my life." In this case, I don't think you are much different from the rest of us. :) I always find the hard part is going back. Example: I am just returning to the SCA after a burn out phase. This time around, it was so bad that I refused to look at my rapier gear, wouldn't listen to my period music, packed up my period cookbooks and (shock of all shocks) didn't even want to look at my sewing machines or fabric. Now, I finally broken out of that just to find I have basically no costumes that fit. I don't want to have to rush getting anything completed, which was the straw that broke the camel's back last time. So now that I have finally found my muse again, and I actually want to be involved in something, but I am fighting with the fact that I filled up all my costuming/SCA time with other things. :( However, I am about to be unemployed and am looking forward to having a few weeks off to do nothing but sew! Kit --part1_108.1aca7b1c.2b0141e5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/02 12:23:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, MelanieWilson@bigfoot.com writes:


>Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues
while still loving one's costumes?


I believe that everyone does at some point in time.  For me I can clock it.  Every 5 years I get tired of reenactment.  (Whether it be the time or money constrait, the politics or the sh**ty-attitudes of other people.)   Then depending on my level of involvement, I either back out to a token event here or there, or pullout completely, getting rid of all my costumes and "get on with my life."  In this case, I don't think you are much different from the rest of us.  :)

I always find the hard part is going back.  Example: I am just returning to the SCA after a burn out phase.  This time around, it was so bad that I refused to look at my rapier gear, wouldn't listen to my period music, packed up my period cookbooks and (shock of all shocks) didn't even want to look at my sewing machines or fabric.  Now, I finally broken out of that just to find I have basically no costumes that fit.  I don't want to have to rush getting anything completed, which was the straw that broke the camel's back last time.  So now that I have finally found my muse again, and I actually want to be involved in something, but I am fighting with the fact that I filled up all my costuming/SCA time with other things.  :(  However, I am about to be unemployed and am looking forward to having a few weeks off to do nothing but sew!

Kit --part1_108.1aca7b1c.2b0141e5_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:13:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23016 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:13:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEDXMV022735; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:13:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEDPt8001188; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gABJK8R7004934 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1479 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 19:20:07 -0000 Received: from 208-27-190-75.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (208.27.190.75) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 19:20:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3DD00293.9211F42E@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:18:43 -0500 Status: RO Greetings, I have searched so many online pattern shops I think I am dizzy. What I did discover there wasn't a place that had or sold ball gown patterns for the mid 1600's. I found a big gap between 1600 and 1700's. If anyone anywhere can point me in the right direction to locate a pattern for the 1600's I would be forever in your debt. I gather from this lack many people do not re-enact this time frame. Or I am not looking in the right places. Thank you in advance, Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:14:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23022 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:14:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEESMV022773; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:14:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEESt8001459; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:14:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABK4HR7027004 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:04:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.186]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5F009P2H33TK@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:04:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion braces In-reply-to: <38.310f21d6.2b013921@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021111105141.00d236e0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:56:27 -0800 Status: RO > I was just wondering, what sort of concessions do you make for your > period clothes? (Any period will do.) > >I have a good friend who wants to return to the SCA (and eventually >Regency/Victorian/Edwardian stuff as well) but she is now wheelchair bound >and is having difficulty figuring out what concessions she will have to >make for her old costumes. She used to try to be very authentic, and did >almost strictly Elizabethan clothing. She wishes to continue both veins >as much as possible. So I am trying to help her make adjustments. I told >her I would ask this list, especially since we seem to be having this >conversation anyway. > >Any help would be appreciated, since I am at a complete loss. Assuming she gets out of the chair to use the convenience, open up the skirt seam all the way to the waist in back. The chair will cover this. And remember, nothing lumpy to sit on or lean back against. The other suggestions I have read include making garments that are easy for the wearer to put on, including large armholes and Velcro fasteners. She may have to change to an easier-to-wear authentic period, like earlier. (There's a book about clothing for the disabled somewhere - I've read it but keep not buying it - which includes more ideas.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:14:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23026 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:14:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEEWMV022784; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:14:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEEVt8001480; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:14:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gABKGrR7003804 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27252 invoked by uid 1005); 11 Nov 2002 20:16:43 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.082521 secs); 11 Nov 2002 20:16:43 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.082521 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 20:16:43 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021111151519.M70311-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Moll Flanders? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:16:49 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Hello, y'all. I happened upon "The Adventures and Misadventures of Moll Flanders" the other night, on Lifetime. And was seduced by the scrummy looking gowns. Can anyone (Nicole?) give a rating on just how accurate the mid-17th c. clothing in that movie was? Thanks, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:15:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23042 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:15:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEFVMV022854; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:15:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEFUt8001877; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gABLk4R7021840 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16116 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:52:54 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: LIST H costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tired of re-enactment In-Reply-To: <007701c287c9$bdd00ca0$0b7f4ed5@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:52:54 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Melanie Wilson wrote: > >Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment > clues while still loving one's costumes? This has been an interesting thread. I have a slightly different perspective on this, as I'm one of the very few (are there others?) on this list who is primarily a historic costume researcher, and only secondarily a maker of costumes. And I don't do re-enactment, theater, or living history at all. But I started out in re-enactment. No, wait. I started out studying medieval costume history on my own, in high school, in the mid-1970s, because I thought it was cool, and I made dress-up costumes for myself and my friends. When I got to college, I found both Renfaires and SCA, at right about the same time, so I was delighted to have an excuse to wear the clothing I'd made, and make more, and learn more about it. I was deeply involved in the SCA for several years (officer at local and kingdom levels, deputy officer at national level), in several kingdoms. I participated wholeheartedly in the entire experience, and I enjoyed the opportunity to experiment with many different arts and crafts. (For those who care, my Laurel is not in costume. I would probably not meet requirements for a costume Laurel today, either.) This kept me very busy doing very many things, and -- as time went on -- with less and less time to do any substantive work in any one area I was particularly interested in, because I was doing a lot of administrative stuff, organizing, teaching. My costume work mostly consisted of making and teaching the same things over and over. Then after one more house move and yet another kingdom, I found myself busy with job and life and such, and I just never managed to get active in the local group. I also found the opportunity to begin presenting papers at academic conferences. And after a few years, I realized I had stopped doing re-enacting without really noticing it. I was spending more and more time on my costume research, which I had neglected for so long, and I was still seeing many of my friends from re-enactment. But I had somehow stopped bothering to go to events. It took me several years to realize not only that I had quit, but that I hadn't missed it. Now I tell people I had to quit the SCA to find the time to do the things I joined the SCA to do ;-) I tell this story sometimes when people assume I must have quit for a reason related to the group -- politics, or burnout, or whatever. No, I just got my activities in line with my priorities. I also found that once I recognized this consciously, I became a much better costumer, and a better costume researcher, because I was no longer focused on making costumes to wear to events. I do still make costumes, but mostly for experimental purposes, not personal ones. So I don't think anymore about whether something will look good with my facial structure or coloring (which are not typical of the cultures in which the clothing was worn), or whether I can wash it or pack it, or whether I can have it done before some event. I make fewer clothes, and very few for myself, but they're better in general, and I'm happier doing them. I also spend a lot more time researching costume issues that have very little to do with making clothing -- e.g. the development of costume history, or the use of costume in artwork in various periods. These are things I just barely touched on when I was re-enacting and didn't have the time or resources to pursue. Today, I love lecturing for re-enactment groups, because then I get to see that people can use my findings. People seem to think it's very odd that I don't want to "play" in the SCA anymore, and I periodically run into some old friend who decides I must have left because I felt unloved or unwanted, and that I must be miserable or unfulfilled without it, and that if they push me hard enough I'll come back where I belong. Not likely. I'm much happier doing exactly what I want to do -- in my case, focusing on the development of body garments in a particular period -- without being distracted by the need to assemble the complete kit I'd need to actually re-enact that period. No more pavilions, dining ware, baskets, pouches, camp furniture, etc. For that matter, I mostly ignore shoes, hose, headgear, belts, jewelry, and other costume accessories that don't influence the clothing issues I'm studying. These aren't my areas of interest, and so completing a full outfit was always a nuisance for me. When I got right down to what I cared about, I found I liked what I was doing a whole lot more. Just another perspective. --Robin who met her husband at a party for burned-out ex-SCA people, and who still has a few boxes of long-unused feast and camp gear in the basement -- his as well as hers _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:16:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23051 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:16:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEGfMV022991; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:16:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEGet8002412; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:16:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAC0AWR7008783 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:10:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip191.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.191]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gAC0ARnr013661 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:10:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021111180942.04099d80@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:10:49 -0500 Status: RO At 09:51 PM 11/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 11/8/02 4:56:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, >lindo@radix.net writes: > > >>Well, maybe you could do what one of the fiber arts sites does -- host a >>bulletin board where people can post big, cumbersome stuff like tents etc.? > > >Yes, a bulletin board is better suited to this. I am somewhat new to who >offers what. Which fiber site are you referring to so I can see who >provides the service? Or can you suggest any well regarded bulletin board >providers? I don't think anyone wants daily deliverys of what's for sale >messages, but a place to quickly see what might be listed. Thanks for the >suggestion. > >Lisa Well, I don't know of any software specifically, but I'm sure some of the web sites out there that host bulletin boards (Muzzleloader Magazine has one, I think) could tell you what software they're using. I think there's good freeware available, for that matter... - Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:16:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23055 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:16:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEGbMV022978; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:16:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEGbt8002379; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:16:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAC0AUR7008774 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:10:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip191.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.191]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gAC0ARnp013661 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:10:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021111180419.04099d80@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Forehead cloth/cross clothes In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107192137.01f842b0@saltmine.radix.net> <20021102100451.92238.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> <20021102100451.92238.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021107192137.01f842b0@saltmine.radix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:05:30 -0500 Status: RO At 07:18 PM 11/8/2002 +0000, you wrote: >What is a kertch? This is interesting because (as I said elsewhere) I pin >my wimple to my headscarf, to stop it blowing back. > >Jean A kertch (in 18th c. Scottish parlance) is basically the Scottish Highland survival of the medieval wimple -- a large square piece of fabric, usually folded diagonally to form a triangle. So, yes, same difference . -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:16:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23059 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:16:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEGhMV023004; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEGht8002434; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAC0AYR7008799 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:10:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip191.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.191]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gAC0ARnt013661 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:10:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021111180607.04099d80@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) In-Reply-To: <20021108230906.74643.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:16:13 -0500 Status: RO At 11:09 PM 11/8/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues >while still loving one's costumes? > >Nicole Oh, yes... Well, one way to get through this is to have a private costume party with one's friends, just to enjoy the costumes without the tourists ;) I find that the events I enjoy the most are the ones with a _few_ tourists, not too many, but ones that seem to ask intelligent questions (mostly). That way I get a decent amount of time socializing with friends, and not too much time answering stupid questions. I'm trying to figure out how to drop the events that involve high 'stupidity' quotients. I also find that if I have a ton of stuff to haul with me, it's not as fun. If I can travel light, I do better. A 'common' persona helps this, I think... It's so tempting to take everything plus the proverbial kitchen sink to events, but paring down to the bare necessities helps one focus on what's really enjoyable. And assigning myself some definable role or task for the duration of the event helps, too, when possible. What do you think it is that bothers you most about the events you're going to? What do you enjoy the most? -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:16:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23064 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:16:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEHCMV023128; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEHBt8002727; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:17:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAC9LNR7008146 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:21:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-182.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.182]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B31E019FD76 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:21:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DD0C80F.8030009@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,,pattern stuff References: <3DCD3461.3060401@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:21:19 +0100 Status: RO Please send me one too. Greetings, Deredere http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/ Linda J. Thompson wrote: > Cassandra, > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got a > handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern using the > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I > remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely complicated, > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list > together and send them all at once. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:18:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23084 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:18:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEItMV023447; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:18:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEIst8003687; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gACIswNw000617 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:54:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5746 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 18:54:57 -0000 Received: from dap-208-1-140-168.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO bookbusiness) (208.1.140.168) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 18:54:57 -0000 From: "Janet Davis" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan shoes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:55:02 -0500 Status: RO Usually, I don't do anything later than Tudor, but I found a really nice "camp" (cotton) Elizabethan dress being sold as used garb at a reasonable price. Now that the alterations are mostly done and I contemplate wearing it next weekend, I realize I have no idea of what kind of shoes would be appropriate. I'm not going to custom-made shoes for 1 dress - does anyone have any thoughts on available modern shoes that would look okay? Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:19:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23091 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:19:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEJAMV023519; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEJ9t8003832; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:19:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gACK5eNw008065 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021112200536.KUUP1315.lakemtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:05:36 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: Message-ID: <000001c28a82$035c08e0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] New exhibition devoted to Michelangelo and late Renaissance Flore Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:30:46 -0500 Status: RO In case anyone needs one more reason to head north next spring: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021111/ap_wo_en_po/a rts_us_renaissance_art_2 CHICAGO - More than four centuries ago, a melancholy young nobleman from the Medici family, Francesco I, second Grand Duke of Tuscany, had a secret chamber built at one of his palaces in Florence. He filled it with exquisite art works, jewels, natural curios and scientific specimens. Francesco spent days at a time hiding from the world in what he called his "studiolo" or study. Other rulers of the day who had similar vaults called them "wonder cabinets." The curators of an exhibition that opened Saturday at the Art Institute of Chicago, "The Medici, Michelangelo and the Art of Late Renaissance Florence," devote a whole room to Francesco's wonder cabinet, but the truest wonders are in surrounding galleries: Art works created as the Renaissance was winding down in the city of its birth. These are not the more famous works of the Early or the High Renaissance, when Florence was a rowdy republic and the Medici were up-and-coming bankers - quick with the moneybags, the daggers and the stuffed ballot boxes. The exhibition, which runs through Feb. 2, covers the years from the accession of Francesco's father, Cosimo I, in 1537, to the death in 1631 of Archduchess Maria Maddalena, widow of Francesco's nephew, Cosimo II. By the latter year, the Medici - and Florence - were in decline, and the city's art was reverting to an almost medieval religiosity. There are no da Vincis, Raphaels, Botticellis or Donatellos. Instead, most of the featured artists are from the later Mannerist school, which took its lead from the late works of Michelangelo. Most aren't household names. There are such painters as Jacopo da Pontormo, Agnolo Bronzino and Francesco Salviati, while the sculptors include Baccio Bandinelli, Vincenzo Danti and Bartolomeo Ammanati. But gallery-goers who demand star names needn't be disappointed. There are preliminary models for the most famous bronze by Benvenuto Cellini, sculptor, goldsmith and all-around scamp, plus three sculptures and five drawings by Michelangelo. One of the works on paper is the unsigned "Drawing of a Candelabrum," discovered only this past spring in the collection of the Smithsonian's Cooper-Hewitt National Design Museum in New York. The drawing made international headlines in July when it was identified as Michelangelo's work. This is its first time on display outside New York. The largest and best-known of the Michelangelo works in the exhibition is the uncompleted "Apollo/David," whose twisting body seems to be breaking free from the original block of marble. Like many of the 200 other works on display, this is the first time the sculpture has traveled outside Italy. Its dramatic pose and subtle physical distortions provide a good blueprint for the aims of Mannerism. Equally moving is the tiny wooden crucifix displayed nearby. The 88-year-old Michelangelo was whittling it just before his death in Rome in 1564. One of the most striking sculptures by Michelangelo's Mannerist followers is Bartolomeo Ammanti's monumental bronze of Hercules wrestling the giant Antaeus. Among paintings on display, the many Bronzino portraits are justly famous, and sometimes subtly unsettling. But the best-known painting is probably "Judith with the Head of Holofernes," by Bronzino's grandson, Cristofano Allori. The exhibition, which was assembled by the Art Institute, the Detroit Institute of Arts and a consortium of Italian museums, had its first showing at the Palazzo Strozzi in Florence earlier this year. Its only U.S. showings are at the Art Institute (Nov. 9, 2002-Feb. 2, 2003) and in Detroit (March 16-June 8, 2003). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:19:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23095 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:19:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEJGMV023542; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:19:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEJFt8003921; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:19:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gACKk3Nw029963 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18093 invoked by uid 1005); 12 Nov 2002 20:45:54 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.065709 secs); 12 Nov 2002 20:45:54 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.065709 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 20:45:53 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021112154453.C87169-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Il Libro dell'Arte's online Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:45:58 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Guys, Just stumbled across this: Cennino Cennini's "Il Libro dell' Arte" is online! More interesting to illuminators than costumers, but there's still some good recipes for buckram, etc. in here. http://www.noteaccess.com/Texts/Cennini/index.htm Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:20:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23109 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:20:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEKTMV023704; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:20:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEKTt8004595; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:20:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gACLwZU3009803 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:58:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18Bj3K-000HnM-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:58:35 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) References: <3DCBF81A.4020207@misc.com> <20021108183647.33443.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> <009101c28783$d11e88e0$0b1723d9@dan> In-Reply-To: <009101c28783$d11e88e0$0b1723d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:54:22 +0000 Status: RO Stevie Gamble wrote >Jean wrote > >> Indeed - those who could afford clothing that would be seriously >spoiled >> by rain and mud could also afford not to go out in it. >> > >I think that that is only partially so; if you are thinking in terms >of the 'idle rich' then that may be accurate. But many of the rich >weren't idle, and time, tide and the Armada were not minded to call >the whole thing off so that the Lord Admiral didn't spoil his clothes. >Nor would Elizabeth have abandoned her claim to possess the heart and >stomach of a king of England at Tilbury for fear of getting wet, and >on a rather less fraught occasion Raleigh really did blow a small >fortune when he threw down his cloak for her to walk on. > >best wishes >Stevie > Well, that's an even higher level of wealth - to be able to wear brocades and satins, get them muddy and not care if they were ruined! Where people were going to wear their best, things were often arranged so they didn't have to get wet or step on the ground - stepping straight from the carriage onto a platform, for example, or the development of the porte-cochere. While we can't necessarily tell whether people had shorter skirts for bad weather, I'm sure those who had to take care of their clothes had simpler, more easily cleaned outfits for muddy days. I always wonder how short servants wore their skirts, as I struggle up steep spiral stairs in castles, even with both hands free for my skirts. Is anyone aware of any evidence, for 12th - 14th century? I just can't imagine how they climbed with buckets of water or trays of food. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:20:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23116 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:20:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEKXMV023723; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:20:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEKXt8004616; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:20:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gACMNPU3023172 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:23:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18BjRK-000NGQ-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:23:22 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit References: <00eb01c287a6$618ac340$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3DCC9840.8030109@misc.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:21:59 +0000 Status: RO It's interesting to consider how much looks wrong because we're not used to seeing people photographed in movement, or in informal poses, and how much, perhaps, because they haven't researched how people really moved - through novels and etiquette books, etc. Some of them make me respond "no nice girl would..." - stand with her hands on her hips, for example. It's the same with cross-cultural settings - things like not showing the soles of your feet to people. Yes, everyone relaxes, everyone has to do daily tasks, but there are cultural/time differences in the way they do them, and the things which are acceptable or not. Probably the last detail most people achieve in wearing historical costumes! Jean Kirrily Robert wrote >Theresa wrote: >> If I understand this site correctly, this pair combined efforts to pose >> modern people in period clothing and historic sites? >> >> I'm a little conflicted about this agenda: on the one hand, the people >> themselves _look_ modern, as do the poses (kind of that contrived >> spontaneity thing popular in some photographers' studios), so are we, >> the viewing public, supposed to understand it as a historically accurate >> view of how people behaved in natural settings? > >Hrm, yeah, I agree that the people look modern. I find myself thinking >"what is it that makes them look modern?" and seeing how I can apply it >to my own costume-related activities. > >The things that stand out for me, are the childrens' hairstyles, the way >people are standing/sitting with what looks like the wrong posture, and >the fact that the photographs are sepia-toned and meant to look >old-fashioned and yet they catch people in moments that would have >looked like a blur using 19th century photography techniques. I thought >that people sitting for photographs at that time had to stand totally >still for quite a long time for the long exposures? > >K. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:21:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23121 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:21:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADELVMV023872; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:21:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADELUt8005106; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAD1SRU3018330 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.184.11bfde47 (4459) for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:27:55 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <184.11bfde47.2b03049a@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_184.11bfde47.2b03049a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Subject: [h-cost] embroidery on19th century chemises Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:27:54 EST Status: RO --part1_184.11bfde47.2b03049a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy folks, As I mentioned earlier, I have tried to take some pictures of the embroidery on the authentic 19th century chemises I have. I have 5 chemises and one combination. Though some are machine sewn together, the embroidery is done by hand on all of them. I cannot get a good shot, however. The sun will not come out and there is not enough light without the flash to take a close up. The flash washes the white on white out. I'm going to invest in a tripod. I must go out of town this week however so you'll all just have to wait until I return and take some more pictures. The ones I have taken are not sharp and unacceptable but from them I can tell you'll be able to see each stitch, if I can get the camera to hold steady. More later.... AlbertCat...budding photographer --part1_184.11bfde47.2b03049a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy folks,

As I mentioned earlier, I have tried to take some pictures of the embroidery on the authentic 19th century chemises I have. I have 5 chemises and one combination. Though some are machine sewn together, the embroidery is done by hand on all of them.

I cannot get a good shot, however. The sun will not come out and there is not enough light without the flash to take a close up. The flash washes the white on white out. I'm going to invest in a tripod. I must go out of town this week however so you'll all just have to wait until I return and take some more pictures.
The ones I have taken are not sharp and unacceptable but from them I can tell you'll be able to see each stitch, if I can get the camera to hold steady.

More later....

AlbertCat...budding photographer --part1_184.11bfde47.2b03049a_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:21:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23126 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:21:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADELlMV023941; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:21:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADELlt8005267; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:21:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAD4utU3021417 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27335 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 04:56:54 -0000 Received: from 208-27-190-149.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (208.27.190.149) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 04:56:54 -0000 Message-ID: <3DD1DB0A.92AEC96D@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] not recieving messages. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:54:34 -0500 Status: RO Am I the only one not recieving any messages from h-cost? Been two days since I've seen a post. Di _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:22:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23132 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:22:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEM4MV024006; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEM4t8005474; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAD8J6U3013159 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:19:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021113081906.28036.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:19:06 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Test? It's so silent... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:19:06 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO This is weird, no mails whatsoever since yesterday. Is it mailing list downtime again? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 09:48:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23306 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:48:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEmBMV025545; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:48:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADEm7t8014261; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADElNt8013841 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.51.37.8] (pcp456045pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.37.8]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.5 (built Sep 23 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5I00G0YRQGSW@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:47:04 -0500 (EST) From: Allison In-reply-to: <20021111190011.24402.86187.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] Re: pattern sizing specs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:47:10 -0600 Status: RO I, too, would like to have a copy of the pattern re-sizing directions! Many thanks, Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 10:00:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23426 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:00:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADF11MV026327; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADF10t8018810; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADF0wt8018795 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:00:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gADF3R023597.; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:03:27 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:00:57 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gADF0wt8018795 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:00:32 +0000 Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk 11/12/02 10:21pm >>> >It's interesting to consider how much looks wrong because we're not used >to seeing people photographed in movement, or in informal poses, As a sidelight on this, there's a painting by William Dobson showing Prince Rupert in conversation with two other officers (sorry, can't find it online). A Victorian critic, accustomed to posed, static portraits, thought it made Rupert look drunk. To my eyes it just looks like a snapshot which happens not to be particularly flattering. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 10:03:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23447 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:03:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADF31MV026527; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADF31t8019546; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADF2wt8019510 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:02:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f6d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.109]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6FEE24802E3 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:02:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c28b25$da814170$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021111151519.M70311-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moll Flanders? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:03:40 +0100 Status: RO Dear Drea I have it on tape from the television. My two cents is that it is rather good. Compared to other series, they have made it reasonable. I think it is a television series, and brittish television is quite good in recreating periods. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] Moll Flanders? > Hello, y'all. > > I happened upon "The Adventures and Misadventures of Moll Flanders" the > other night, on Lifetime. And was seduced by the scrummy looking gowns. > Can anyone (Nicole?) give a rating on just how accurate the mid-17th c. > clothing in that movie was? > > Thanks, > > Drea > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 10:18:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23816 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADFJ2MV027844; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADFJ0t8025969; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADFITt8025676 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:18:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f6d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.109]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AF485480595 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:18:24 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c28b28$04808740$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <3DD00293.9211F42E@inetone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:19:05 +0100 Status: RO Dear Diana. You are right. This is a period who lacks patterns. The only ball gown you could find is in Janet Arnolds Patterns of Fashion. There is the cut of a 1660 bodice and Norah Waugh has made a pattern of the Bath Dress from 1660 very similar to the bodice in The Cut of Womens Clothes. There is also a cut of a jacket from 1650. So you have to draft your own patterns from these books! Then there also is Jean Hunniset who has made some cuts of bodices in Period Costume for Stage and Screen, but she used the same drafts from the above mensioned bodices and skirts. Another book who has mid 1600 patterns (more theatrical) is The Evolution of Fashion - Pattern and Cut from 1066 - 1930 by Margot Hamilton Hill and Peter A Bucknell. I made a Dress for Nicole Kipar a coupple of years ago with real handmade silverlace decoration on the bodice and the skirt. It was made after the pattern in Janet Arnold's book Patterns of Fashion. If you go here: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/pembroke.htm you can follow how i made this dress from 1660. And the finished dress is here: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/cavalier.html Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dhannti" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's > > Greetings, > I have searched so many online pattern shops I think I am dizzy. > What I did discover there wasn't a place that had or sold ball gown > patterns for the mid 1600's. I found a big gap between 1600 and 1700's. > If anyone anywhere can point me in the right direction to locate a > pattern for the 1600's I would be forever in your debt. I gather from > this lack many people do not re-enact this time frame. Or I am not > looking in the right places. > > Thank you in advance, > Diana > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 10:40:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23891 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:40:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADFc4MV029400; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:38:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADFc1t8004071; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gADFbnt8003934 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:37:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsp4Cpp0Np3E7NLvR3pbo8ZYtf8R0Syglw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHHPTUBH; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:37:29 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's Message-ID: <20021113.093817.-171571.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:38:16 -0600 Status: RO I have just received my order from 'The Merchant Venturers' who specialize in doing Cavalier/English Civil War styles. The patterns are dated from about 1625-1640 but could probably do for fashions thru the Commonwealth. I haven't used any of them yet so I can't speak for easy of use or fit, but I will let the list know when I try them. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 11:00:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24042 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:00:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADG03MV001517; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADG01t8014952; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADFxLt8014602 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:59:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 7.106.1b4d2290 (4328) for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:59:08 -0500 (EST) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,pattern stuff To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:59:08 EST Status: RO --part1_106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please send me a copy also. Thanks, =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Nancy Linda J. Thompson wrote: > Cassandra, > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got a=20 > handout that showed=A0 a method of upsizing a standard pattern using the=20 > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it=20 > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email.=A0 If I=20 > remember it is about 2 or three pages.=A0 Was not extremely complicated,=20 > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list=20 > together and send them all at once. --part1_106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please send me a copy also.

Thanks,
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Nancy


Linda J. Thompson wrote:

> Cassandra,
> When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got a <= BR> > handout that showed=A0 a method of upsizing a standard pattern using th= e
> industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email.=A0 If I
> remember it is about 2 or three pages.=A0 Was not extremely complicated= ,
> and is more accurate than the split and spread method.
>
> If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list
> together and send them all at once.


 --part1_106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 11:03:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24057 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:03:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADG32MV001832; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADG31t8016602; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gADG21t8016087 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:02:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021113160200.5386.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:02:00 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021113.093817.-171571.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:02:00 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I have just received my order from 'The Merchant Venturers' who > specialize in doing Cavalier/English Civil War styles. The patterns are > dated from about 1625-1640 but could probably do for fashions thru the > Commonwealth. I haven't used any of them yet so I can't speak for easy of > use or fit, but I will let the list know when I try them. Teddy wore a green ensemble last weekend which he made out of the Merchant venturers patterns. It fit him great, but of course pattern adjustments are needed if you are not by any chance their fit. I have a few patterns of theirs and I like them, I use them as basics to make fitting patterns. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 11:06:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24072 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:06:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADG73MV002135; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADG71t8018618; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gADG6bt8018429 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:06:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021113160636.37426.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:06:36 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000d01c28b28$04808740$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:06:36 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Diana, I have to tel you that ther are NO commercial patterns available for the mid 17th to late 17th century that I possibly know of, and I know a hellofalot about this period. :-) > You are right. This is a period who lacks patterns. > The only ball gown you could find is in Janet Arnolds Patterns of Fashion. > There is the cut of a 1660 bodice and Norah Waugh has made a pattern of the > Bath Dress from 1660 very similar to the bodice in The Cut of Womens > Clothes. There is also a cut of a jacket from 1650. You don't need a 'gown' because essentially, the 'gowns' of the period are bodices and skirts, skirts are simple rectangles, usually cartridge pleated, sometimes box pleated 9uhm, or was that term knife pleating? methinks the latter) herefore you need to do exactly what Bjarne says, you need to draft apattern from Norah Waugh and/or Janet Arnold. > So you have to draft your own patterns from these books! ..and that's where I personally fail utterly. Although you could also ask Sarah Thursfield to make a pattern for you. > Another book who has mid 1600 patterns (more theatrical) is The Evolution of > Fashion - Pattern and Cut from 1066 - 1930 by Margot Hamilton Hill and Peter > A Bucknell. Do NOT use it if you want anything authentic, I agree with Bjarne here, it is purely theatrical. > I made a Dress for Nicole Kipar a coupple of years ago with real handmade > silverlace decoration on the bodice and the skirt. It was made after the > pattern in Janet Arnold's book Patterns of Fashion. and a most beautiful dress it is! still the lovliest costume that i own, i feel soooooooooooooo beautiful in it. *grins* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 11:13:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24110 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:13:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGD2MV002665; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGD1t8021778; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGCBt8021346 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:12:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer ([12.225.2.157]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021113161205.KJZV24365.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:12:05 +0000 Message-ID: <003f01c28b2e$cb8a7340$9d02e10c@attbi.com> From: "dshoover" To: References: <106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,pattern stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01C28AEB.BD0A1F20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:07:41 -0800 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C28AEB.BD0A1F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please add me to the list also. dshoover@attbi.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MaddNancy@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@net.indra.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,pattern stuff Please send me a copy also. Thanks, Nancy Linda J. Thompson wrote: > Cassandra, > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got = a=20 > handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern using = the=20 > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it = > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I=20 > remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely = complicated,=20 > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list=20 > together and send them all at once. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C28AEB.BD0A1F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please add me to the list also. =20 dshoover@attbi.com
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MaddNancy@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, = 2002 7:59=20 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of=20 re-enacting,pattern stuff

Please send me a copy = also.

Thanks,
   =20     Nancy


Linda J. Thompson wrote:

>=20 Cassandra,
> When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep = years=20 ago, I got a
> handout that showed  a method of upsizing a = standard pattern using the
> industry calculation method for = it. If you=20 would like I will scan it
> and send it to you as an attachment = to your=20 private email.  If I
> remember it is about 2 or three=20 pages.  Was not extremely complicated,
> and is more = accurate than=20 the split and spread method.
>
> If any on else wants a = copy, send=20 me email and I will get a list
> together and send them all at=20 once.


 ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C28AEB.BD0A1F20-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 11:21:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24172 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:21:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGG2MV002967; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGG1t8023408; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gADGFdt8023183 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:15:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021113161538.16772.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:15:38 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021111180607.04099d80@saltmine.radix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:15:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Kevin + Mara wrote: > > > I also find that if I have a ton of stuff to haul with me, it's not as > fun. If I can travel light, I do better. A 'common' persona helps this, I > think... It's so tempting to take everything plus the proverbial kitchen > sink to events, but paring down to the bare necessities helps one focus on > what's really enjoyable. And assigning myself some definable role or task > for the duration of the event helps, too, when possible. > > What do you think it is that bothers you most about the events you're going > to? What do you enjoy the most? You hit the nail on the head Mara, I have none of those options of the above. I am the leader! This is my blooming society, so I lug everything around, with two cars and one van and I am SO tired of that stress, of having to care for everyone, trying to make sure everyone is happy (mother hen syndrome) dealing with the rganisers, having essentially the responsibility, making sure the members deal well with the public, making sure I bought all the food, and usuallyending up paying lots out of my own pocket towards everything. Also, setting up 5 tents or so is NOT fun. I think I just had it with all the stress and responsibility I don't think that ANY members of ANY group/society realise HOW utterly stress and NO-fun their leaders are. I didn't enjoy a single event not ever with my society, not a single one other tan the banquet and the pirate fun. I was deeply depresed before every event and usually even worse after, because I was so exhausted, phyiscally and mentally. I think, quite honestly, that I pretty much had it. Burn out syndrome, badly. Nicole - working on a fantasy costume instead! Thanks to Teddy and all the other lovely people. :-))) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 11:27:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24204 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:27:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGR4MV004078; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGR2t8029638; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gADGPxt8029056 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:25:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021113162558.99433.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:25:58 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moll Flanders? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021111151519.M70311-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:25:58 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Drea Leed wrote: > Hello, y'all. > > I happened upon "The Adventures and Misadventures of Moll Flanders" the > other night, on Lifetime. And was seduced by the scrummy looking gowns. > Can anyone (Nicole?) give a rating on just how accurate the mid-17th c. > clothing in that movie was? Sorry Drea, didn't watch it, I usually shy away from costume films of my facvourite period because they usually make me scream in horror *L* (notable exception: Restoration) so I can't say anything about the costumes. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 11:52:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24412 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:52:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGpGMV006794; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:51:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGpFt8015643; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADGoZt8015244 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gADGr4029929.; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:53:04 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:50:34 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moll Flanders? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gADGoZt8015244 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:50:00 +0000 Status: RO Is this the version with Alex Kingston as Moll? If so, it's several years since it was shown on British TV. I don't remember any problems regarding the costumes, but my memory of them is hazy. (I've visited the half-timbered house where some of it was filmed, in Ludlow, Shropshire.) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 11/13/02 04:25pm >>> --- Drea Leed wrote: > Hello, y'all. > > I happened upon "The Adventures and Misadventures of Moll Flanders" the > other night, on Lifetime. And was seduced by the scrummy looking gowns. > Can anyone (Nicole?) give a rating on just how accurate the mid-17th c. > clothing in that movie was? Sorry Drea, didn't watch it, I usually shy away from costume films of my facvourite period because they usually make me scream in horror *L* (notable exception: Restoration) so I can't say anything about the costumes. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 12:06:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24496 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:06:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADH65MV009674; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADH61t8025331; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADH5Ct8024733 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:05:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m159.in-tch.com [216.166.191.159]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gADGnb926317 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:49:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DD28659.97842A16@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Test? It's so silent... References: <20021113081906.28036.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:05:29 -0700 Status: RO Think it's just quiet right now, which is okay with me, 'cuz a couple of my other lists are just *exploding.* --sue N Kipar wrote: > > This is weird, no mails whatsoever since yesterday. Is it mailing list downtime > again? > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 12:16:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24614 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:16:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHE8MV011143; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:14:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHE1t8000539; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHDTt8029908 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.10.283d7240 (3657) for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:12:55 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <10.283d7240.2b03e217@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moll Flanders? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10.283d7240.2b03e217_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:12:55 EST Status: RO --part1_10.283d7240.2b03e217_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/13/02 6:14:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, drea@nospam writes: > Hello, y'all. > > I happened upon "The Adventures and Misadventures of Moll Flanders" the > other night, on Lifetime. And was seduced by the scrummy looking gowns. > Can anyone (Nicole?) give a rating on just how accurate the mid-17th c. > clothing in that movie was? > > Thanks, > > Drea > Drea, Which version was it? The one with Angela Lansbury? I have been looking for a copy of that for Angela's Files, but am having the worst time tracking it down. Kit --part1_10.283d7240.2b03e217_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/13/02 6:14:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, drea@nospam writes:


Hello, y'all.

I happened upon "The Adventures and Misadventures of Moll Flanders" the
other night, on Lifetime.  And was seduced by the scrummy looking gowns.
Can anyone (Nicole?)  give a rating on just how accurate the mid-17th c.
clothing in that movie was?

Thanks,

Drea


Drea,

Which version was it?  The one with Angela Lansbury?  I have been looking for a copy of that for Angela's Files, but am having the worst time tracking it down.

Kit --part1_10.283d7240.2b03e217_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 12:43:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27702 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:43:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHh7MV016195; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:43:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHh1t8019827; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from colossus.systems.pipex.net (colossus.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHfxt8019170 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by colossus.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E1F5E16000797 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:41:53 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003901c28b3b$fd6ff760$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: References: <3DCD3461.3060401@comcast.net> <3DD0C80F.8030009@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,,pattern stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:42:08 -0000 Status: RO > > Linda J. Thompson wrote: > > > Cassandra, > > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got a > > handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern using the > > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it > > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I > > remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely complicated, > > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list > > together and send them all at once. > Please, I would like to receive a copy of this too. Linda Walton. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 12:45:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27729 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:45:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHjAMV016568; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:45:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHj5t8021171; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:45:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHiIt8020626 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:44:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28648 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:51:16 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:51:16 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Jean Waddie wrote: > I always wonder how short servants wore their skirts, as I struggle up > steep spiral stairs in castles, even with both hands free for my skirts. > Is anyone aware of any evidence, for 12th - 14th century? I just can't > imagine how they climbed with buckets of water or trays of food. You see a lot of pictures of women doing work with their outer skirts kilted up in some way, showing an underdress that's only ankle-length (or sometimes their single workdress kilted up, showing a chemise that's even shorter). There are several ways of showing the folds of the gathered part, but I think one useful trick is to wear a belt underneath the outer layer, and tuck some of the outer skirt into the inner belt. It would take some experimentation to find the best ways -- something I haven't played around with. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 12:46:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27738 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:46:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHk4MV016696; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHk2t8021791; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHjlt8021584 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:45:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021113174540.CRO2683.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:45:40 +0000 Message-ID: <006801c28b3c$7bafc290$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021111180607.04099d80@saltmine.radix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Re: tired of reenacting Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:45:40 -0800 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin + Mara" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) > I find that the events I enjoy the most are the ones with a _few_ tourists, > not too many, but ones that seem to ask intelligent questions > (mostly). That way I get a decent amount of time socializing with friends, > and not too much time answering stupid questions. I'm trying to figure out > how to drop the events that involve high 'stupidity' quotients. I'm exactly the opposite -- as someone who used to work Renaissance Faires, but now primarily attends vintage dance events, I miss having the audience because it forces people to (at least some of the time) stay in character. I find at balls and dances, beyond dressing up, people make little to no attempt at acting "historic"! Seems a bit of a waste, really, to get all dressed up and then talk about your job! One thing I don't miss as an ex-Faire person, though, is giving up 3 months of weekends... - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 12:54:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27813 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:54:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHr3MV017838; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHr2TZ026502; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADHq7TZ025908 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:52:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from darklord.com (adsl-64-160-39-43.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.160.39.43] (may be forged)) by pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gADHq4fj540584 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:52:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3DD2920E.DF886368@darklord.com> From: Lisa VandenBerghe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20021113142032.4306.40463.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: pattern upsizing instructions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:55:26 -0800 Status: RO Please send me a copy too! Thanks! Lisa VandenBerghe h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > h-costume-admin@mail.indra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Patterns for the mid 1600's (Dhannti) > 2. Re: fashion braces (Carolyn Kayta Barrows) > 3. Moll Flanders? (Drea Leed) > 4. Re: Tired of re-enactment (Robin Netherton) > 5. Re: Forehead cloth/cross clothes (Kevin + Mara) > 6. Re: Fripper's and second hand garb (Kevin + Mara) > 7. Re: costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a > Parasol?) (Kevin + Mara) > 8. Re: tired of re-enacting,,pattern stuff (Deredere & Owen Iskander) > 9. Elizabethan shoes (Janet Davis) > 10. New exhibition devoted to Michelangelo and late Renaissance Flore (Linda Rice) > 11. Il Libro dell'Arte's online (Drea Leed) > 12. Re: costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) (Jean Waddie) > 13. Re: Wonderful photo exhibit (Jean Waddie) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:18:43 -0500 > From: Dhannti > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > Greetings, > I have searched so many online pattern shops I think I am dizzy. > What I did discover there wasn't a place that had or sold ball gown > patterns for the mid 1600's. I found a big gap between 1600 and 1700's. > If anyone anywhere can point me in the right direction to locate a > pattern for the 1600's I would be forever in your debt. I gather from > this lack many people do not re-enact this time frame. Or I am not > looking in the right places. > > Thank you in advance, > Diana > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:56:27 -0800 > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Subject: Re: [h-cost] fashion braces > To: h-costume@indra.com > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > I was just wondering, what sort of concessions do you make for your > > period clothes? (Any period will do.) > > > >I have a good friend who wants to return to the SCA (and eventually > >Regency/Victorian/Edwardian stuff as well) but she is now wheelchair bound > >and is having difficulty figuring out what concessions she will have to > >make for her old costumes. She used to try to be very authentic, and did > >almost strictly Elizabethan clothing. She wishes to continue both veins > >as much as possible. So I am trying to help her make adjustments. I told > >her I would ask this list, especially since we seem to be having this > >conversation anyway. > > > >Any help would be appreciated, since I am at a complete loss. > > Assuming she gets out of the chair to use the convenience, open up the > skirt seam all the way to the waist in back. The chair will cover > this. And remember, nothing lumpy to sit on or lean back against. > > The other suggestions I have read include making garments that are easy for > the wearer to put on, including large armholes and Velcro fasteners. She > may have to change to an easier-to-wear authentic period, like > earlier. (There's a book about clothing for the disabled somewhere - I've > read it but keep not buying it - which includes more ideas.) > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:16:49 -0500 (EST) > From: Drea Leed > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Moll Flanders? > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > Hello, y'all. > > I happened upon "The Adventures and Misadventures of Moll Flanders" the > other night, on Lifetime. And was seduced by the scrummy looking gowns. > Can anyone (Nicole?) give a rating on just how accurate the mid-17th c. > clothing in that movie was? > > Thanks, > > Drea > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:52:54 -0600 (CST) > From: Robin Netherton > To: LIST H costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tired of re-enactment > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Melanie Wilson wrote: > > > >Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment > > clues while still loving one's costumes? > > This has been an interesting thread. I have a slightly different > perspective on this, as I'm one of the very few (are there others?) on > this list who is primarily a historic costume researcher, and only > secondarily a maker of costumes. And I don't do re-enactment, theater, or > living history at all. > > But I started out in re-enactment. No, wait. I started out studying > medieval costume history on my own, in high school, in the mid-1970s, > because I thought it was cool, and I made dress-up costumes for myself and > my friends. When I got to college, I found both Renfaires and SCA, at > right about the same time, so I was delighted to have an excuse to wear > the clothing I'd made, and make more, and learn more about it. > > I was deeply involved in the SCA for several years (officer at local and > kingdom levels, deputy officer at national level), in several kingdoms. I > participated wholeheartedly in the entire experience, and I enjoyed the > opportunity to experiment with many different arts and crafts. (For those > who care, my Laurel is not in costume. I would probably not meet > requirements for a costume Laurel today, either.) This kept me very busy > doing very many things, and -- as time went on -- with less and less time > to do any substantive work in any one area I was particularly interested > in, because I was doing a lot of administrative stuff, organizing, > teaching. My costume work mostly consisted of making and teaching the same > things over and over. > > Then after one more house move and yet another kingdom, I found myself > busy with job and life and such, and I just never managed to get active in > the local group. I also found the opportunity to begin presenting papers > at academic conferences. And after a few years, I realized I had stopped > doing re-enacting without really noticing it. I was spending more and more > time on my costume research, which I had neglected for so long, and I was > still seeing many of my friends from re-enactment. But I had somehow > stopped bothering to go to events. It took me several years to realize not > only that I had quit, but that I hadn't missed it. > > Now I tell people I had to quit the SCA to find the time to do the things > I joined the SCA to do ;-) > > I tell this story sometimes when people assume I must have quit for a > reason related to the group -- politics, or burnout, or whatever. No, > I just got my activities in line with my priorities. > > I also found that once I recognized this consciously, I became a much > better costumer, and a better costume researcher, because I was no longer > focused on making costumes to wear to events. I do still make costumes, > but mostly for experimental purposes, not personal ones. So I don't think > anymore about whether something will look good with my facial structure or > coloring (which are not typical of the cultures in which the clothing was > worn), or whether I can wash it or pack it, or whether I can have it done > before some event. I make fewer clothes, and very few for myself, but > they're better in general, and I'm happier doing them. > > I also spend a lot more time researching costume issues that have very > little to do with making clothing -- e.g. the development of costume > history, or the use of costume in artwork in various periods. These are > things I just barely touched on when I was re-enacting and didn't have the > time or resources to pursue. > > Today, I love lecturing for re-enactment groups, because then I get to see > that people can use my findings. People seem to think it's very odd that I > don't want to "play" in the SCA anymore, and I periodically run into some > old friend who decides I must have left because I felt unloved or > unwanted, and that I must be miserable or unfulfilled without it, and that > if they push me hard enough I'll come back where I belong. Not likely. I'm > much happier doing exactly what I want to do -- in my case, focusing on > the development of body garments in a particular period -- without being > distracted by the need to assemble the complete kit I'd need to actually > re-enact that period. No more pavilions, dining ware, baskets, pouches, > camp furniture, etc. For that matter, I mostly ignore shoes, hose, > headgear, belts, jewelry, and other costume accessories that don't > influence the clothing issues I'm studying. These aren't my areas of > interest, and so completing a full outfit was always a nuisance for me. > When I got right down to what I cared about, I found I liked what I was > doing a whole lot more. > > Just another perspective. > > --Robin > who met her husband at a party for burned-out ex-SCA people, and who still > has a few boxes of long-unused feast and camp gear in the basement -- his > as well as hers > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:05:30 -0500 > To: h-costume@indra.com > From: Kevin + Mara > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Forehead cloth/cross clothes > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > At 07:18 PM 11/8/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >What is a kertch? This is interesting because (as I said elsewhere) I pin > >my wimple to my headscarf, to stop it blowing back. > > > >Jean > > A kertch (in 18th c. Scottish parlance) is basically the Scottish Highland > survival of the medieval wimple -- a large square piece of fabric, usually > folded diagonally to form a triangle. So, yes, same difference . > > -- Mara > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:10:49 -0500 > To: h-costume@indra.com > From: Kevin + Mara > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fripper's and second hand garb > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > At 09:51 PM 11/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >In a message dated 11/8/02 4:56:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, > >lindo@radix.net writes: > > > > > >>Well, maybe you could do what one of the fiber arts sites does -- host a > >>bulletin board where people can post big, cumbersome stuff like tents etc.? > > > > > >Yes, a bulletin board is better suited to this. I am somewhat new to who > >offers what. Which fiber site are you referring to so I can see who > >provides the service? Or can you suggest any well regarded bulletin board > >providers? I don't think anyone wants daily deliverys of what's for sale > >messages, but a place to quickly see what might be listed. Thanks for the > >suggestion. > > > >Lisa > > Well, I don't know of any software specifically, but I'm sure some of the > web sites out there that host bulletin boards (Muzzleloader Magazine has > one, I think) could tell you what software they're using. I think there's > good freeware available, for that matter... > > - Mara > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:16:13 -0500 > To: h-costume@indra.com > From: Kevin + Mara > Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a > Parasol?) > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > At 11:09 PM 11/8/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >Did anyone else ever experience the I-am-deadly-tired-of-re-enactment clues > >while still loving one's costumes? > > > >Nicole > > Oh, yes... Well, one way to get through this is to have a private costume > party with one's friends, just to enjoy the costumes without the tourists ;) > > I find that the events I enjoy the most are the ones with a _few_ tourists, > not too many, but ones that seem to ask intelligent questions > (mostly). That way I get a decent amount of time socializing with friends, > and not too much time answering stupid questions. I'm trying to figure out > how to drop the events that involve high 'stupidity' quotients. > > I also find that if I have a ton of stuff to haul with me, it's not as > fun. If I can travel light, I do better. A 'common' persona helps this, I > think... It's so tempting to take everything plus the proverbial kitchen > sink to events, but paring down to the bare necessities helps one focus on > what's really enjoyable. And assigning myself some definable role or task > for the duration of the event helps, too, when possible. > > What do you think it is that bothers you most about the events you're going > to? What do you enjoy the most? > > -- Mara > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:21:19 +0100 > From: Deredere & Owen Iskander > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,,pattern stuff > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > Please send me one too. > > Greetings, > Deredere > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/ > > Linda J. Thompson wrote: > > > Cassandra, > > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got a > > handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern using the > > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it > > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I > > remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely complicated, > > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list > > together and send them all at once. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > From: "Janet Davis" > To: > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:55:02 -0500 > Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan shoes > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > Usually, I don't do anything later than Tudor, but I found a really nice > "camp" (cotton) Elizabethan dress being sold as used garb at a reasonable > price. Now that the alterations are mostly done and I contemplate wearing > it next weekend, I realize I have no idea of what kind of shoes would be > appropriate. I'm not going to custom-made shoes for 1 dress - does anyone > have any thoughts on available modern shoes that would look okay? > > Janet > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > From: "Linda Rice" > To: > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:30:46 -0500 > Subject: [h-cost] New exhibition devoted to Michelangelo and late Renaissance Flore > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > In case anyone needs one more reason to head north next spring: > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021111/ap_wo_en_po/a > rts_us_renaissance_art_2 > > CHICAGO - More than four centuries ago, a melancholy young nobleman from > the > Medici family, Francesco I, second Grand Duke of Tuscany, had a secret > chamber built at one of his palaces in Florence. He filled it with > exquisite > art works, jewels, natural curios and scientific specimens. > > Francesco spent days at a time hiding from the world in what he called > his > "studiolo" or study. Other rulers of the day who had similar vaults > called > them "wonder cabinets." > > The curators of an exhibition that opened Saturday at the Art Institute > of > Chicago, "The Medici, Michelangelo and the Art of Late Renaissance > Florence," devote a whole room to Francesco's wonder cabinet, but the > truest > wonders are in surrounding galleries: Art works created as the > Renaissance > was winding down in the city of its birth. > > These are not the more famous works of the Early or the High > Renaissance, > when Florence was a rowdy republic and the Medici were up-and-coming > bankers - quick with the moneybags, the daggers and the stuffed ballot > boxes. > > The exhibition, which runs through Feb. 2, covers the years from the > accession of Francesco's father, Cosimo I, in 1537, to the death in 1631 > of > Archduchess Maria Maddalena, widow of Francesco's nephew, Cosimo II. By > the > latter year, the Medici - and Florence - were in decline, and the city's > art > was reverting to an almost medieval religiosity. > > There are no da Vincis, Raphaels, Botticellis or Donatellos. Instead, > most > of the featured artists are from the later Mannerist school, which took > its > lead from the late works of Michelangelo. > > Most aren't household names. There are such painters as Jacopo da > Pontormo, > Agnolo Bronzino and Francesco Salviati, while the sculptors include > Baccio > Bandinelli, Vincenzo Danti and Bartolomeo Ammanati. > > But gallery-goers who demand star names needn't be disappointed. There > are > preliminary models for the most famous bronze by Benvenuto Cellini, > sculptor, goldsmith and all-around scamp, plus three sculptures and five > drawings by Michelangelo. > > One of the works on paper is the unsigned "Drawing of a Candelabrum," > discovered only this past spring in the collection of the Smithsonian's > Cooper-Hewitt National Design Museum in New York. The drawing made > international headlines in July when it was identified as Michelangelo's > work. This is its first time on display outside New York. > > The largest and best-known of the Michelangelo works in the exhibition > is > the uncompleted "Apollo/David," whose twisting body seems to be breaking > free from the original block of marble. Like many of the 200 other works > on > display, this is the first time the sculpture has traveled outside > Italy. > Its dramatic pose and subtle physical distortions provide a good > blueprint > for the aims of Mannerism. > > Equally moving is the tiny wooden crucifix displayed nearby. The > 88-year-old > Michelangelo was whittling it just before his death in Rome in 1564. > > One of the most striking sculptures by Michelangelo's Mannerist > followers is > Bartolomeo Ammanti's monumental bronze of Hercules wrestling the giant > Antaeus. > > Among paintings on display, the many Bronzino portraits are justly > famous, > and sometimes subtly unsettling. But the best-known painting is probably > "Judith with the Head of Holofernes," by Bronzino's grandson, Cristofano > Allori. > > The exhibition, which was assembled by the Art Institute, the Detroit > Institute of Arts and a consortium of Italian museums, had its first > showing > at the Palazzo Strozzi in Florence earlier this year. Its only U.S. > showings > are at the Art Institute (Nov. 9, 2002-Feb. 2, 2003) and in Detroit > (March > 16-June 8, 2003). > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:45:58 -0500 (EST) > From: Drea Leed > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Il Libro dell'Arte's online > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > Guys, > > Just stumbled across this: Cennino Cennini's "Il Libro dell' Arte" is > online! More interesting to illuminators than costumers, but there's still > some good recipes for buckram, etc. in here. > > http://www.noteaccess.com/Texts/Cennini/index.htm > > Drea > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:54:22 +0000 > To: h-costume@indra.com > From: Jean Waddie > Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > Stevie Gamble wrote > >Jean wrote > > > >> Indeed - those who could afford clothing that would be seriously > >spoiled > >> by rain and mud could also afford not to go out in it. > >> > > > >I think that that is only partially so; if you are thinking in terms > >of the 'idle rich' then that may be accurate. But many of the rich > >weren't idle, and time, tide and the Armada were not minded to call > >the whole thing off so that the Lord Admiral didn't spoil his clothes. > >Nor would Elizabeth have abandoned her claim to possess the heart and > >stomach of a king of England at Tilbury for fear of getting wet, and > >on a rather less fraught occasion Raleigh really did blow a small > >fortune when he threw down his cloak for her to walk on. > > > >best wishes > >Stevie > > > Well, that's an even higher level of wealth - to be able to wear > brocades and satins, get them muddy and not care if they were ruined! > Where people were going to wear their best, things were often arranged > so they didn't have to get wet or step on the ground - stepping straight > from the carriage onto a platform, for example, or the development of > the porte-cochere. > > While we can't necessarily tell whether people had shorter skirts for > bad weather, I'm sure those who had to take care of their clothes had > simpler, more easily cleaned outfits for muddy days. > > I always wonder how short servants wore their skirts, as I struggle up > steep spiral stairs in castles, even with both hands free for my skirts. > Is anyone aware of any evidence, for 12th - 14th century? I just can't > imagine how they climbed with buckets of water or trays of food. > > Jean > > -- > Jean Waddie > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:21:59 +0000 > To: h-costume@indra.com > From: Jean Waddie > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wonderful photo exhibit > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > It's interesting to consider how much looks wrong because we're not used > to seeing people photographed in movement, or in informal poses, and how > much, perhaps, because they haven't researched how people really moved - > through novels and etiquette books, etc. Some of them make me respond > "no nice girl would..." - stand with her hands on her hips, for example. > > It's the same with cross-cultural settings - things like not showing the > soles of your feet to people. Yes, everyone relaxes, everyone has to do > daily tasks, but there are cultural/time differences in the way they do > them, and the things which are acceptable or not. Probably the last > detail most people achieve in wearing historical costumes! > > Jean > > Kirrily Robert wrote > >Theresa wrote: > >> If I understand this site correctly, this pair combined efforts to pose > >> modern people in period clothing and historic sites? > >> > >> I'm a little conflicted about this agenda: on the one hand, the people > >> themselves _look_ modern, as do the poses (kind of that contrived > >> spontaneity thing popular in some photographers' studios), so are we, > >> the viewing public, supposed to understand it as a historically accurate > >> view of how people behaved in natural settings? > > > >Hrm, yeah, I agree that the people look modern. I find myself thinking > >"what is it that makes them look modern?" and seeing how I can apply it > >to my own costume-related activities. > > > >The things that stand out for me, are the childrens' hairstyles, the way > >people are standing/sitting with what looks like the wrong posture, and > >the fact that the photographs are sepia-toned and meant to look > >old-fashioned and yet they catch people in moments that would have > >looked like a blur using 19th century photography techniques. I thought > >that people sitting for photographs at that time had to stand totally > >still for quite a long time for the long exposures? > > > >K. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > End of h-costume Digest _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 13:33:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28094 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:33:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADIX7MV026176; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:33:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADIX25O024006; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADIWt5O023915 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:32:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gADIWsnp024639 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:32:54 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery on19th century chemises In-Reply-To: <184.11bfde47.2b03049a@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:32:54 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: (snip) > The ones I have taken are not sharp and unacceptable but from them I can tell > you'll be able to see each stitch, if I can get the camera to hold steady. > > More later.... > > AlbertCat...budding photographer Thanks for giving it a go, and good luck! -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 13:44:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28283 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:44:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADIi5MV027988; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADIi15O001265; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADIh75O000804 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gADIh6np026074 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:43:06 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Burn-out, was Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather In-Reply-To: <20021113161538.16772.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:43:06 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > You hit the nail on the head Mara, I have none of those options of the above. I > am the leader! This is my blooming society, so I lug everything around, with > two cars and one van and I am SO tired of that stress, of having to care for > everyone, trying to make sure everyone is happy (mother hen syndrome) dealing > with the rganisers, having essentially the responsibility, making sure the > members deal well with the public, making sure I bought all the food, and > usuallyending up paying lots out of my own pocket towards everything. Oh, wow... is there any way you can delegate some of this stuff? In the groups I'm with, we're all responsible for our own tents, we have pot-luck food arrangements (some coordinating between members before events to make sure the essentials are covered, but everyone brings some food), and you really ought to get other people to chip in monetarily. No reason you should finance everything! > Also, > setting up 5 tents or so is NOT fun. I think I just had it with all the stress > and responsibility I don't think that ANY members of ANY group/society realise > HOW utterly stress and NO-fun their leaders are. I didn't enjoy a single event > not ever with my society, not a single one other tan the banquet and the pirate > fun. I was deeply depresed before every event and usually even worse after, > because I was so exhausted, phyiscally and mentally. I think, quite honestly, > that I pretty much had it. > Burn out syndrome, badly. > > Nicole - working on a fantasy costume instead! Thanks to Teddy and all the > other lovely people. :-))) That's why I think I enjoyed St. Mary's so much -- I wasn't the leader; I showed up, was responsible only for my own role, gear, etc. I think that's why I like Market Fair so much, too -- same thing. I can show up as an individual and take care of myself, I don't have to worry about anyone else that much. If we coordinate beforehand just a little, we don't get three cook-pots and no fire irons; that works pretty well. What are the benefits/problems with having group-owned gear? I rather like being responsible only for my own tent... Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 14:15:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28446 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:15:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADJE5MV003674; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADJE05O020301; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12002.mail.yahoo.com (web12002.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gADJDR5O019894 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:13:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021113191326.45908.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.244] by web12002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:13:26 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] me too Linda Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:13:26 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Since I'm the one who started the questions about sizing I wanted to make sure Linda that you added me to your list of people for the scans. I e-mailed you off list but it came back as bounced so please add me in too. I also received no mailings from the list for Tuesday but just assumed everyone had been busy and not posted. How do you end the thread on blackwork doing the reversable Holbien stitch? On counted cross you can run the thread back under the row but that's not reversable, just tidy. Ditto for other crewel embroidery where the back doesn't show. Blackwork fiends please reply. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 16:37:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29629 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:37:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADLaAMV025661; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADLa1iY016898; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADLZIiY016532 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:35:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be96.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.150]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D1E1C480082 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:35:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000801c28b5c$b289c2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <000c01c28919$e2d6a260$0200a8c0@hr.cox.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:36:16 +0100 Status: RO Dear Anne Moeller Sorry of the delay of my answer, i didnt se that you had asked me of something. You ask about the difference of the threads i use? Well the most beautifull of the threads, and the most luxurius of them all is the silk from Pipers in England. Their thread is so even and fine and it has the highest glossy shine of all the threads. But it is the thinnest thread you can imagine. You can make fine tulle net laces of this thread, and therefore it also is very very slow to embroider with. Eterna's silk floss is very lovely. It comes in more than 500 colours. I use this thread with the dress i am embroidering now. I use 2 threads, It is stranded with 12 threads so it is quite ekonomic to use. It glides trough the fabric very easy and i chose this thread because of the high colour amounts there is to choose from. Finally the silk chenille thread i use. I dont stitch trough the fabric with this thread, I only sew it to the fabric with another thread. It is because this chenille thread is like a hairy caterpillar, full of fur you could compare it to a pipe cleaner, just it has no wire in it. If i was as wise as i am now for 2 years ago, i would not have chosen pipers silk to embroider my suit with. It has taken me very very long time to make, and i realise now, that if i had chosen Eternas stranded floss in stead, i would have finished the suit much sooner. But isnt this life, you get wiser the older you get, and this is what life is about isnt it? Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Moeller" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] dress diary updated > HI Bjarne, > > I can't tell you how impressed I am with your wonderful embroideries. I > just wanted to know the difference between the threads you are using. I > have heard of this Eterna thread but never actually seen or used it. > Your impressions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Anne (who > has been lurking on this site for over a year and is thrilled with all > the neat information and gorgeous garb) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 17:15:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29838 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:15:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADMD3MV029755; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADMD1iY009105; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADMC1iY008567 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5J006D6B7BBD@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:47:35 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated In-reply-to: <000801c28b5c$b289c2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <000c01c28919$e2d6a260$0200a8c0@hr.cox.net> <000801c28b5c$b289c2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:46:44 -0500 Status: RO Is there a source for the Eterna silk in the US? Or is this something that much be ordered from england? Linda K-S At 10:36 PM +0100 11/13/02, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Dear Anne Moeller > >Sorry of the delay of my answer, i didnt se that you had asked me of >something. > >You ask about the difference of the threads i use? >Well the most beautifull of the threads, and the most luxurius of them all >is the silk from Pipers in England. Their thread is so even and fine and it >has the highest glossy shine of all the threads. >But it is the thinnest thread you can imagine. You can make fine tulle net >laces of this thread, and therefore it also is very very slow to embroider >with. >Eterna's silk floss is very lovely. It comes in more than 500 colours. I use >this thread with the dress i am embroidering now. I use 2 threads, It is >stranded with 12 threads so it is quite ekonomic to use. It glides trough >the fabric very easy and i chose this thread because of the high colour >amounts there is to choose from. >Finally the silk chenille thread i use. I dont stitch trough the fabric with >this thread, I only sew it to the fabric with another thread. It is because >this chenille thread is like a hairy caterpillar, full of fur you could >compare it to a pipe cleaner, just it has no wire in it. >If i was as wise as i am now for 2 years ago, i would not have chosen pipers >silk to embroider my suit with. It has taken me very very long time to make, >and i realise now, that if i had chosen Eternas stranded floss in stead, i >would have finished the suit much sooner. >But isnt this life, you get wiser the older you get, and this is what life >is about isnt it? > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Anne Moeller" >To: >Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 1:32 AM >Subject: RE: [h-cost] dress diary updated > > >> HI Bjarne, >> >> I can't tell you how impressed I am with your wonderful embroideries. I >> just wanted to know the difference between the threads you are using. I >> have heard of this Eterna thread but never actually seen or used it. >> Your impressions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Anne (who >> has been lurking on this site for over a year and is thrilled with all >> the neat information and gorgeous garb) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 19:23:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30458 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:23:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE0L2MV011605; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE0L0iY017113; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAE0KgiY017003 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:20:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 10719 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 00:20:41 -0000 Received: from 206-105-173-183.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.183) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 00:20:41 -0000 Message-ID: <3DD2EC06.2F7049FA@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's References: <3DD00293.9211F42E@inetone.net> <000d01c28b28$04808740$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:19:18 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Dear Diana. > > I made a Dress for Nicole Kipar a coupple of years ago with real handmade > silverlace decoration on the bodice and the skirt. It was made after the > pattern in Janet Arnold's book Patterns of Fashion. > If you go here: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/pembroke.htm > you can follow how i made this dress from 1660. > And the finished dress is here: > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/cavalier.html > I was in awe when I frist saw that gown on Nicole on a website. I am doublly in awe of your creation from the lace to the gown. How I wish you lived nearby. I would love to learn bobbin lace. The pictures make it look easy but I know it is far from simple to do. Equally impressed. I think this is where I falls to my knees and chant I am not worthy. I am reading your website as I type this. I noted the dress from you have covered in rectangles of fabric. Can you explain what the are for? I have Janet Arnolds Book but my drafting skills do not exsist. is there a way to drape a muslin to get the required shape to make a mockup for a pattern? Or am I approaching this backwards? Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 19:34:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30520 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:34:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE0Y5MV012681; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:34:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE0Y1iY022250; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx14.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx14.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE0XmiY022064 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:33:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx14.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 25056785 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:33:42 -0500 Message-ID: <007a01c28b75$71b4bd20$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan shoes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:33:24 -0600 Status: RO Actually, IIRC, Mary Janes would work quite well - and they seem to be in fashion these days, so not too hard to find! Here's some sketches of actual and speculative shoes from earlier in Tudor England; one of those looks like MaryJanes. http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SLIST5.HTM Drea has a great overview of the whole Elizabethan costume, including shoes (way towards the bottom). "Cecily has several shoes to wear. They all have thin leather soles and uppers of leather, velvet or other fabrics. They are lined with wool, taffeta and satin. Some are slip-on shoes, similar to modern espadrilles. Others look rather like modern mary janes, with a low-cut top and a strap across the instep." http://costume.dm.net/overview.html Hope this helps! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** > I realize I have no idea of what kind of shoes would be > appropriate. I'm not going to custom-made shoes for 1 dress - does anyone > have any thoughts on available modern shoes that would look okay? > > Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 19:37:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30550 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:37:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE0c2MV012968; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE0c0iY023954; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAE0bpiY023890 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21953 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 00:37:50 -0000 Received: from 206-105-173-183.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.183) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 00:37:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3DD2F009.ADBF6C55@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's References: <20021113160636.37426.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:36:25 -0500 Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > > Diana, I have to tel you that ther are NO commercial patterns available for > the mid 17th to late 17th century that I possibly know of, and I know a > hellofalot about this period. :-) > > You don't need a 'gown' because essentially, the 'gowns' of the period are > bodices and skirts, skirts are simple rectangles. I need to read more. I was told they were skirts attached to the bodices. Appreciate the information they were separate pieces. > > ..and that's where I personally fail utterly. Although you could also ask Sarah > Thursfield to make a pattern for you. I too have no skills in drafting patterns. How do I get in touch with Ms. Thurfield? > and a most beautiful dress it is! still the lovliest costume that i own, i feel > soooooooooooooo beautiful in it. *grins* > Nicole this new interest is partly your fault. I saw your pictures on a web site that someone sent me. I fell in love with the gown. BTW You look beautiful in the gown and the setting is a perfect backdrop. So you see how you have inspired my desire to make such a gown. I am a novice when it comes to creating a realistic period gown but I'll keep trying to make it as correct as I can. Now if only someone who could draft a pattern would do so commercially. Thank you for the inspiration. Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 19:42:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30603 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:42:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE0g2MV013260; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE0g1iY025633; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAE0ftiY025597 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:41:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24272 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 00:41:54 -0000 Received: from 206-105-173-183.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.183) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 00:41:54 -0000 Message-ID: <3DD2F0F6.9DA4265E@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's References: <20021113.093817.-171571.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:40:22 -0500 Status: RO seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > I have just received my order from 'The Merchant Venturers' who > specialize in doing Cavalier/English Civil War styles. The patterns are > dated from about 1625-1640 but could probably do for fashions thru the > Commonwealth. I haven't used any of them yet so I can't speak for easy of > use or fit, but I will let the list know when I try them. > Karen do they have a web site? If they do could you post it here? Thanks, Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 21:07:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30979 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:07:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE226MV018596; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:02:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE221iY023191; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE21wiY023175 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:01:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021114020157.SYYB10927.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:01:57 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) Message-ID: <3DD30410.7880.BE7051A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20021113161538.16772.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021111180607.04099d80@saltmine.radix.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:01:52 -0000 Status: RO On 13 Nov 2002 at 16:15, N Kipar wrote: > You hit the nail on the head Mara, I have none of those options of the > above. I am the leader! This is my blooming society, so I lug > everything around, with two cars and one van and I am SO tired of that > stress, of having to care for everyone, .... I don't think that ANY members of ANY group/society > realise HOW utterly stress and NO-fun their leaders are. I didn't > enjoy a single event not ever with my society, That does sound bad. We take turns "autocratting" events, so the burn-out level will never be as bad as that, but even so, the autocrat usually delegates lots of stuff. Once I got used to being the organiser, I could enjoy events I was running, and still stay in control. Can you not delegate things to others? Get person X to put up the tents, person Y to sort the food, and so on? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 21:44:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31125 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:44:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE2e5MV020715; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:40:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE2e3iY004923; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE2dLiY004682 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:39:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool-63.53.233.145.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.145]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18C9ua-0004FL-00; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:39:20 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20021113191326.45908.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021113191326.45908.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Ending blackwork (WAS: me too Linda) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:30:14 -0800 Status: RO At 11:13 AM -0800 11/13/02, Cassandra wrote: > How do you end the thread on blackwork doing the >reversable Holbien stitch? On counted cross you can >run the thread back under the row but that's not >reversable, just tidy. Ditto for other crewel >embroidery where the back doesn't show. Blackwork >fiends please reply. I'm probably not "fiendish" enough, since I haven't tried this myself, but here's what I've watched people do. Some people do indeed just pick an area where there's a continuous line of stitching on the back, and whip over and over that line with their thread for a ways, then tuck it underneath and snip it off. This does mean that a few threads on the "wrong" side will look suspiciously double-thick, but often they're not too obvious unless someone is looking closely. The method I've been told the "real" experts use is this: bring the thread through to the "wrong" side, then push aside the thread of the next stitch on that side, and take three or four little teensy running stitches with your working thread directly _underneath_ the already existing stitch. Then clip off the end and let the stitch you pushed aside fall back into place. Supposedly this is enough to hold it firm, and with practice I'm told it's next to undetectable. (I do feel compelled to add, BTW, that according to the experts I hear talking, not nearly as much of the blackwork done in the 16th century actually _was_ reversible as we used to think. A lot of it could have a less neat and tidy back because it was lined with something else.) Hope this helps -- -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 21:45:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31133 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:45:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE2eQMV020736; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:40:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE2eNiY005042; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE2dMiY004691 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool-63.53.233.145.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.233.145]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18C9ua-0004FL-00; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:39:20 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20021113191326.45908.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021113191326.45908.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Ending blackwork (WAS: me too Linda) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:30:14 -0800 Status: RO At 11:13 AM -0800 11/13/02, Cassandra wrote: > How do you end the thread on blackwork doing the >reversable Holbien stitch? On counted cross you can >run the thread back under the row but that's not >reversable, just tidy. Ditto for other crewel >embroidery where the back doesn't show. Blackwork >fiends please reply. I'm probably not "fiendish" enough, since I haven't tried this myself, but here's what I've watched people do. Some people do indeed just pick an area where there's a continuous line of stitching on the back, and whip over and over that line with their thread for a ways, then tuck it underneath and snip it off. This does mean that a few threads on the "wrong" side will look suspiciously double-thick, but often they're not too obvious unless someone is looking closely. The method I've been told the "real" experts use is this: bring the thread through to the "wrong" side, then push aside the thread of the next stitch on that side, and take three or four little teensy running stitches with your working thread directly _underneath_ the already existing stitch. Then clip off the end and let the stitch you pushed aside fall back into place. Supposedly this is enough to hold it firm, and with practice I'm told it's next to undetectable. (I do feel compelled to add, BTW, that according to the experts I hear talking, not nearly as much of the blackwork done in the 16th century actually _was_ reversible as we used to think. A lot of it could have a less neat and tidy back because it was lined with something else.) Hope this helps -- -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 13 23:17:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31474 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:17:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE3kDMV024392; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:46:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE3k1iY025880; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAE3jeiY025734 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsp4Cpp0Np3EfkfeY0BsfUz4SMxShb5M6A=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHJZFJXP; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:44:46 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's Message-ID: <20021113.214542.-474927.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:45:41 -0600 Status: RO http://www.themerchantventurer.co.uk/Index3.asp On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:40:22 -0500 Dhannti writes: > > > seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > > > I have just received my order from 'The Merchant Venturers' who > > specialize in doing Cavalier/English Civil War styles. The > patterns are > > dated from about 1625-1640 but could probably do for fashions thru > the > > Commonwealth. I haven't used any of them yet so I can't speak for > easy of > > use or fit, but I will let the list know when I try them. > > > Karen do they have a web site? If they do could you post it here? > > Thanks, > Diana > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 01:13:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA31851 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:13:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE4X3MV025970; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE4X1iY009816; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE4W0iY009505 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.118.25.3] (HELO computerb) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 4732011 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:31:54 -0500 Message-ID: <023301c28baf$49cffba0$03197644@charter.net> From: "shavaylah" To: References: <106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc@aol.com> <003f01c28b2e$cb8a7340$9d02e10c@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,pattern stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0221_01C28B6B.CA562540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:24:19 -0800 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0221_01C28B6B.CA562540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please add another copy for shavaylah@charter.net Linda J. Thompson wrote: > Cassandra, > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got = a=20 > handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern using = the=20 > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it = > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I=20 > remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely = complicated,=20 > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list=20 > together and send them all at once. ------=_NextPart_000_0221_01C28B6B.CA562540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please add another copy for shavaylah@charter.net


Linda J. Thompson=20 wrote:

> Cassandra,
> When I took my pattern drafting = classes=20 at the rep years ago, I got a
> handout that showed  a = method of=20 upsizing a standard pattern using the
> industry calculation = method for=20 it. If you would like I will scan it
> and send it to you as an = attachment to your private email.  If I
> remember it is = about 2=20 or three pages.  Was not extremely complicated,
> and is = more=20 accurate than the split and spread method.
>
> If any on = else=20 wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list
> together = and send=20 them all at = once.


------=_NextPart_000_0221_01C28B6B.CA562540-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 02:07:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02950 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:07:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE5dmdX026629; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:48:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE4h4iY012666; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE4gLiY012427 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:42:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAE4vHA0004461; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:57:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAE4vGIv004459; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:57:16 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <3DCBF81A.4020207@misc.com> <009101c28783$d11e88e0$0b1723d9@dan> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200211132357.16334.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAE4gLiY012427 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:57:16 -0500 Status: RO On Tuesday 12 November 2002 04:54 pm, Jean Waddie wrote: > Stevie Gamble wrote [text cut here] > While we can't necessarily tell whether people had shorter skirts for > bad weather, I'm sure those who had to take care of their clothes had > simpler, more easily cleaned outfits for muddy days. > > I always wonder how short servants wore their skirts, as I struggle up > steep spiral stairs in castles, even with both hands free for my skirts. > Is anyone aware of any evidence, for 12th - 14th century? I just can't > imagine how they climbed with buckets of water or trays of food. One could always tuck ones skirts up, as you see in some miniatures depicting farm peasants (think Tres Riches Heures du Duc de Barry). -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 02:40:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17841 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:40:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE7d3MV001171; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE7d0iY029381; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (sm0101.promedia.net [208.131.40.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE7c4iY029166 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from gateway (ppp-208-171-196-169.01.promedia.net [208.171.196.169]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id gAE7c4g22760 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:38:04 -0800 Message-ID: <001401c28bb0$bd1c7920$0100a8c0@gateway> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:37:46 -0800 Status: RO I don't know if this is the proper forum for this, but I just put a Ren Faire Nobles Gown up for auction on e-Bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=981738242&ssPageName=ADME :B:LC:US:1 ,%%%, Joan Broneske --==% `%%%, unicorn@softcom.net |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, || `>> > || ///` /( //( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 04:01:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11432 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:01:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE925MV001983; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:02:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAE921iY017829; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAE91XiY017720 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:01:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021114090130.99745.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:01:30 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:01:30 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Okay... I know this is highly ambitious, but... does anyone have an idea how to possibly achieve to make something that doesn't look naff or corny but does look similar to this: http://www.ruppenthal.de/html/bildreichsk.html I LOVE the Aachener Kaiserkrone of Karl der Grosse and would like to use the idea of it, but I can't think how to achieve the metal panels in any kind of realistic way. Any and all suggestions most welcome. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 06:08:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20430 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:08:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEB7AMV003277; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:07:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEB73iY013202; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEB6jiY013126 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:06:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21072 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 11:06:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.194.62]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 14 Nov 2002 11:06:43 -0000 Message-ID: <003801c28bcd$f5d48f60$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <000c01c28919$e2d6a260$0200a8c0@hr.cox.net> <000801c28b5c$b289c2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:07:02 -0500 Status: RO > Is there a source for the Eterna silk in the US? Or is this something > that much be ordered from england? > I don't have the email or web site handy, but I went and dug out the box I have. When they started to carry it, they offered a large collection at a low price, that was certainly worth it! Sometimes I just like to fondle the 460 skeins that I have - of course, this love-to-touch is one of the reasons I bought the house I rent an apartment in. I didn't think that I would find too many places where I could have a very large room that is stuffed with fabric, and another bedroom just for sewing! It is carried by Yodamo Inc 2023 East Sims Way Suite 183 Port Townsend WA 98368 360-379-3250 Fax 360-379-2839 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 06:35:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20513 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:35:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEBa3MV003801; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEBa1iY019528; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEBZ9iY019352 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:35:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021114113508.58191.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:35:08 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DD2EC06.2F7049FA@inetone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:35:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I am reading your website as I type this. I noted the dress from you > have covered in rectangles of fabric. Can you explain what the are for? *laughs* I can explain that too, Bjarne had to pad out the dress form because he had only made dresses for skinny people people. > I have Janet Arnolds Book but my drafting skills do not exsist. is there > a way to drape a muslin to get the required shape to make a mockup for a > pattern? Or am I approaching this backwards? I personally don't thionk that this works, because the shaping of the bodices is very characteristic, but Bjarne is the knowledgable one. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 06:49:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20563 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:49:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEBn7MV004168; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEBn3iY022627; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEBmOiY022482 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:48:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021114114823.11548.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:48:23 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Burn-out, was Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:48:23 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > Oh, wow... is there any way you can delegate some of this stuff? In the > groups I'm with, we're all responsible for our own tents, they ARE my own tents...the problem is when there are people coming from the continent, they cannot carry tents. also, there is another member who is poor and can't afford one, which wouldn't be aproblem, but it is, because this year she didn't help at all, and I am sorry, but I am happy to lend a tent but am not happy when the person does diddly nothing to even put it up. *sigh* nope, I think it's not going to be done like that anymore. we have pot-luck > food arrangements (some coordinating between members before events to make > sure the essentials are covered, but everyone brings some food), and you we have a period food display, so unless someone goes and organises that... admittedly one other member had organised that once, but i felt so bad in the end, because he was the only one helping to organise really and practically, because he was the only one in england and the only one with his own tent etc. > really ought to get other people to chip in monetarily. No reason you > should finance everything! i try, but i never get everything covered. > anyone else that much. If we coordinate beforehand just a little, we > don't get three cook-pots and no fire irons; that works pretty well. well, the problem is that i own everything. all gear, all pottery, all tents (except one) all shelters, all furniture, all glassware, all fier equipment, all just about everything. pretty much all te others own is their costumes. admittedly, when they come by plane or train, that is pretty much what they can carry. anyway, i shall stop winging now, and start talking about historical costumes again. :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 06:50:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20574 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:50:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEBp2MV004206; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEBp1iY023039; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEBo6iY022833 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:50:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021114115005.11711.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:50:05 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001401c28bb0$bd1c7920$0100a8c0@gateway> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:50:05 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Uhm, I'm sorry Joan, but your images are broken. Nicole --- Joan Broneske wrote: > I don't know if this is the proper forum for this, but I just put a Ren > Faire Nobles Gown up for auction on e-Bay. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=981738242&ssPageName=ADME > :B:LC:US:1 > > > ,%%%, > Joan Broneske --==% `%%%, > unicorn@softcom.net |' )`%%, > \_/\ @%%, > __@@" %%%--"""-.%, > /`__| \%% > \\ \ / | /'%, > \] | /----'. < `%, > || `>> > > || ///` > /( //( > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 08:00:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20944 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:00:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEBY8MV003750; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEBY1iY019105; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEBXeiY019016 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:33:41 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021114113338.18963.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:33:38 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DD2F009.ADBF6C55@inetone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:33:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > I need to read more. I was told they were skirts attached to the > bodices. Appreciate the information they were separate pieces. You were told wrong I'm afraid. If I had known that you wnat to make a gown of the 1660s, you should have taken my costume class lessons. :-) > Nicole this new interest is partly your fault. *rubs hands and grins* we'll get you into the Baroque, kicking and screaming! I saw your pictures on > a web site that someone sent me. I fell in love with the gown. BTW You > look beautiful in the gown and the setting is a perfect backdrop. So > you see how you have inspired my desire to make such a gown. I am a > novice when it comes to creating a realistic period gown but I'll keep > trying to make it as correct as I can. Now if only someone who could > draft a pattern would do so commercially. There is, Sarah Thursfield, she of 'medieval tailor' fame. She made a couple of patterns for me so far. sarah.thursfield@btinternet.com Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 08:25:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21047 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:25:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEDQ5MV006689; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:26:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEDQ1PH015993; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEDPQPH015863 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:25:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-8-175.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.8.175] helo=dan) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18CJzn-0000bj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:25:24 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c28be1$cd0737e0$af0823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021114090130.99745.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:29:03 -0000 Status: RO Nicole wrote: > Okay... I know this is highly ambitious, but... does anyone have an idea how > to possibly achieve to make something that doesn't look naff or corny but does > look similar to this: > > http://www.ruppenthal.de/html/bildreichsk.html > > I LOVE the Aachener Kaiserkrone of Karl der Grosse and would like to use the > idea of it, but I can't think how to achieve the metal panels in any kind of > realistic way. > > Any and all suggestions most welcome. There is a very large picture at: http://www.kulmbach.net/~MGF-Gymnasium/bilderdaten/investitur/kaiserkr one2.JPG which lets you see a lot of the construction; this is one of my jewellery passions, almost as desirable as the coronal of Princess Blanche, so I have been collecting the wherewithal to tackle the project. In practical financial terms, copper covered by gold leaf is the way to go, and you can then use gold plated copper wire in different guages for much of the rest of the crown. Note that the pearls are drilled and attached with wires; half pearls weren't used till much later on, and, of course, all the stones are cabochons, and claw set. The metal panels look as if they are probably enamelled, but remember that the tesserae may be gems. Have fun! best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 08:37:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21094 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:37:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAECB2MV004785; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAECB0PH027821; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAECA8PH027598 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gAECA803027597 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:10:08 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Message-ID: <20021114051008.D19512@net.indra.com> References: <20021114090130.99745.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021114090130.99745.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:10:08 -0700 Status: RO On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 09:01:30AM +0000, N Kipar wrote: > http://www.ruppenthal.de/html/bildreichsk.html > I can't think how to achieve the metal panels in any kind of > realistic way. In the SCA, my kingdom has a set of crowns like this, which are actually hammered plates of metal joined together. Assuming you don't want to pay a jeweler that much money, I would suggest working from a base of stiff leather panels. You could cover them with some gold silk if you liked, or just decorate the leather. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 09:00:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21156 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:00:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAECZKO3005089; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:35:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAECX1PH003001; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAECWkPH002922; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:32:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gAECWjhf002918; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:32:45 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: f-costume@net.indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20021114053245.E19512@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] 2002 "Stuck at the Prom" contest winners Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:32:45 -0700 Status: RO Duck Brand duct tape has posted the entries and winners for its 2002 contest. All entries must be made from duct tape, and there are some really lovely historical, ethnic, and fantasy entries. The winners this year made Tudor. Start at http://www.ducktapeclub.com/prom/ and continue with the '2002 Entries' link. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 10:33:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21560 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:33:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEFWHuY001908; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEFW01H026251; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEFVM1H026003 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:31:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gAEFVLk0021308 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:31:21 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's In-Reply-To: <3DD2EC06.2F7049FA@inetone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:31:21 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Dhannti wrote: > I have Janet Arnolds Book but my drafting skills do not exsist. is there > a way to drape a muslin to get the required shape to make a mockup for a > pattern? Or am I approaching this backwards? > > > Diana Hi, Diana, commercial paper patterns for home sewers didn't exist until sometime in the mid/late 19th century, though tailors did have some pattern guidelines and could work from a customer's measurements. So-- what I do when I'm trying to recreate a historical garment without a pattern to work from is drape it onto a dress form (or onto the person for whom the garment is being made). You can find instructions on Threads Magazine's web site for making a duct tape dummy (you'll need a friend to help you). For making period clothing, you'll want to have the dummy made over your figure while you're wearing a period corset. There are also some commercially available dress forms that can be adapted to period shapes (i.e., put your corset onto the dummy). I've had some problems with this -- I can't get my foam dummy to imitate my sway back and broad shoulders, and have to have muslins fitted further once I get them basically mocked up -- but it's a start. Anyway, what I do is place my copy of Janet Arnold on my sewing table so I can look at it while I'm draping; then I pin tissue paper (for the first draft, muslin for the second) to the dress form and mark/cut it until it looks like the shapes in the book. This is not that hard, once you try it and get the hang of it. Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 10:40:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21600 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:40:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEFaG2G002407; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:40:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEF11PH014323; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEF0LPH014130 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f6f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.111]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CF0B263340 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:00:20 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c28bee$b38c7840$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <000c01c28919$e2d6a260$0200a8c0@hr.cox.net> <000801c28b5c$b289c2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:01:24 +0100 Status: RO Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ If you had looked more proper on my homepage, you would have seen a link on the bottom of the page to Eterna Silk. It is Threadexpress http://www.threadexpress.com/ I import from Nan Morisette. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Krecker-Schkred" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated > Is there a source for the Eterna silk in the US? Or is this something > that much be ordered from england? > > Linda K-S > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 10:40:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21613 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:40:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEFaG2M002407; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEEb0PH005631; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEEaCPH005327 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:36:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.5 (built Sep 23 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5K00LT5LUHIX@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:35:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3DD3B31F.7070701@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Pattern upsizing instructions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:28:47 -0600 Status: RO Hi, I found my handout and will be dealing with it this weekend. Those that want the list must send ME email. DO NOT POST IT TO THIS LIST PLEASE. I will probably miss you. (I caught a couple, but not until I had already trashed ones before it).... Thanks -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 11:50:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21887 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:50:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGo4uY011775; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGo01H007975; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEGnF1H007555 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWpCN6IesejupjDNzUiGV8TaOEwgr17igEQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHLEAJZ7; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:48:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay Message-ID: <20021114.114622.-160407.4.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:18:40 -0500 Status: RO Nice gown, love the cat Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 11:51:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21894 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:51:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGoZuY011826; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGoZ1H008263; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEGnF1H007556 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWpCN6IesejupjDNzUiGV8TZZ/I2fq2xFLA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHLEAJ2A; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:48:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Message-ID: <20021114.114622.-160407.6.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_6272.61fc.5dc2 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,28-30,31-32767 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:46:19 -0500 Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_6272.61fc.5dc2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I make dolls. Ok, that isn't the answer to your question, but give me a minute. (I also make costumes.) One of my more recent ladies was a fabric doll dressed in the coronation gear of QE1. The crown is not the same as Charlemagne's, but was still a little challenge. I bought a roll of flashing (the stuff they use on roofs) and cut the crown from that. Instead of dealing with solder or welding, I just punched some holes in it and wired it together and covered the wire with pearls and jewels after spraying it with gold paint. I see no reason why the Charlemagne crown couldn't be made from the same stuff. It is stiff enough to hold it's shape and thin enough to cut with scissors (NOT your good fabric scissors). A little sanding of the edges will smooth it enough to keep from cutting yourself and any wire will work for the filigree. Once the basic crown is done, spray paint it with a good gold craft paint. Gold leafing would be a chore on all that filigree, but would be spectacular. However, there are some really good paints available. Depending on how much money you want to spend, you can get semi precious cabs and cultured pears from several sources or you can go to the craft store and get the plastic "jewels and pearls". The pictures you will either have to paint yourself, have a friend paint for you, or print them out the right size and glue them on. Half the fun in costuming is trying to work out inexpensive ways of doing expensive things so that they look good. Enjoy Lalah Never give up, Never surrender ----__JNP_000_6272.61fc.5dc2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
        I make dolls.  Ok, = that=20 isn't the answer to your question, but give me a minute.  (I also make= =20 costumes.)  One of my more recent ladies was a fabric doll dressed in = the=20 coronation gear of QE1.  The crown is not the same as Charlemagne's, = but=20 was still a little challenge.  I bought a roll of flashing (the stuff = they=20 use on roofs) and cut the crown from that.  Instead of dealing with = solder=20 or welding, I just punched some holes in it and wired it together and = covered=20 the wire with pearls and jewels after spraying it with gold paint.  I = see=20 no reason why the Charlemagne crown couldn't be made from the same stuff.&= nbsp;=20 It is stiff enough to hold it's shape and thin enough to cut with scissors= =20 (NOT your good fabric scissors).  A little sanding of the edges= will=20 smooth it enough to keep from cutting yourself and any wire will work for = the=20 filigree.  Once the basic crown is done, spray paint it with a good = gold=20 craft paint.  Gold leafing would be a chore on all that filigree, but = would=20 be spectacular.  However, there are some really good paints=20 available.  Depending on how much money you want to spend, you can get= semi=20 precious cabs and cultured pears from several sources or you can go to the = craft=20 store and get the plastic "jewels and pearls".  The pictures you will= =20 either have to paint yourself, have a friend paint for you, or print them = out=20 the right size and glue them on.  Half the fun in costuming is trying = to=20 work out inexpensive ways of doing expensive things so that they look=20 good.  Enjoy
 
Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
----__JNP_000_6272.61fc.5dc2-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 11:52:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21898 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:52:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGoduY011844; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGod1H008318; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEGnF1H007554 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWpCN6IesejupjDNzUiGV8TaYVka1s+fLrA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHLEAJZ9; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:48:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Burn-out, was Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather Message-ID: <20021114.114622.-160407.5.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3,5,7-9,15-16,21-23 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:26:46 -0500 Status: RO <<>> It strikes me that you have let them run roughshod over you. You furnish everything, finance everything, and then do all the work. NOT! You furnish all that stuff, the least the rest of them could do is to put it up and help with the work. If you quit, they will find out fast enough how much they owe you. Let them wing it a couple of events and see if they aren't happy to do their share in the future. And as to a costume comment your pictures in the unbelievable gown Bjarne created were the inspiration for a doll I dressed recently. Of course, she is in red because that is my color, but I dream of being able to wear something as lovely as your gown. Fat old ladies don't wear that sort of gown well, but you sure do. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 11:56:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21947 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:56:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGt5uY012259; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGt11H010675; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGsl1H010479 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:54:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.a9.316a27eb (3866) for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:54:34 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a9.316a27eb.2b052f49_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:54:33 EST Status: RO --part1_a9.316a27eb.2b052f49_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/14/02 3:57:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes: > Uhm, I'm sorry Joan, but your images are broken. > > Nicole > > --- Joan Broneske wrote: > I don't know if this is > the > proper forum for this, but I just put a Ren > > Faire Nobles Gown up for auction on e-Bay. > > > > Nicole, Just put in this much of the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=981738242 Kit --part1_a9.316a27eb.2b052f49_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/14/02 3:57:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:


Uhm, I'm sorry Joan, but your images are broken.

Nicole

--- Joan Broneske <unicorn@softcom.net> wrote: > I don't know if this is the
proper forum for this, but I just put a Ren
> Faire Nobles Gown up for auction on e-Bay.
>
>


Nicole,

Just put in this much of the link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=981738242

Kit --part1_a9.316a27eb.2b052f49_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 12:01:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21976 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:01:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEEKLQn007577; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:23:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEDv1PH023990; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEDugPH023888 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:56:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021114135641.28631.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:56:41 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000c01c28be1$cd0737e0$af0823d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:56:41 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > > There is a very large picture at: > > http://www.kulmbach.net/~MGF-Gymnasium/bilderdaten/investitur/kaiserkr > one2.JPG Super, thanks for that one! I have postcards at home, but online versions are always welcome. > which lets you see a lot of the construction; this is one of my > jewellery passions, almost as desirable as the coronal of Princess > Blanche, what does this look like? the name doesn't ring a bell. so I have been collecting the wherewithal to tackle the > project. In practical financial terms, copper covered by gold leaf is > the way to go, I actually don't want it to be gold but silver, also, I want the shape, but different stones and pearls. I was wondering of pewter could be an idea? I'd rather use silver metal sheet, but where to get something like that? and you can then use gold plated copper wire in > different guages for much of the rest of the crown. Note that the Now that's a great idea, I suppose there is silver plated wire about as well? > pearls are drilled and attached with wires; half pearls weren't used > till much later on, and, of course, all the stones are cabochons, and > claw set. Oh yes I know, rememer I COME from Aachen, I have seen the treasury at Aachen cathedral many times and also the treasures within the cathedral. It is so gorgeous close up, stunning and I love the roughly set stones, none of that finely cut business, I much prefer cabochons. Also, there are many stones being used which are drilled through, this s actually the main way stones and gems are which are used in the Kaisertreasures. They aren't fastened like that but must have been used initially for another purpose. Particularly striking in rock crystalsand the like. Then again the chancel has a Roman bowl in its centre, set upside down, a bowl cu out of a rock crystal. > The metal panels look as if they are probably enamelled, but remember > that the tesserae may be gems. > Have fun! Nah, no enammeling here, not even cold enamel, I want to keep it simple but the shape like the crown and from metal and not that horrid plastiline type stuff. Cheers Stevie Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 12:01:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21981 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:01:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEH13uY012930; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEH111H014116; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEH0U1H013797 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:00:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id JAA23061 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:22:04 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211141722.JAA23061@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:22:04 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "Stevie Gamble" wrote: > Nicole wrote: > > > Okay... I know this is highly ambitious, but... does anyone have an > idea how > > to possibly achieve to make something that doesn't look naff or > corny but does > > look similar to this: > > http://www.ruppenthal.de/html/bildreichsk.html [...] > There is a very large picture at: > > http://www.kulmbach.net/~MGF-Gymnasium/bilderdaten/investitur/kaiserkr > one2.JPG > > which lets you see a lot of the construction; this is one of my > jewellery passions, almost as desirable as the coronal of Princess > Blanche, so I have been collecting the wherewithal to tackle the > project. In practical financial terms, copper covered by gold leaf is > the way to go, and you can then use gold plated copper wire in > different guages for much of the rest of the crown. Note that the > pearls are drilled and attached with wires; half pearls weren't used > till much later on, and, of course, all the stones are cabochons, and > claw set. > The metal panels look as if they are probably enamelled, but remember > that the tesserae may be gems. > Have fun! Okay, looking at the large photo, it _would_ be possible to imitate this look with brass filigree jewelry findings. Especially as so much of it is cabochon settings. I'd start by collecting glass and semi-precious cabochons first. The enamelled pannels can be imitated by using translucent paints covered with jeweler's epoxy (the brand I use here in the states is called Epoxy 330). As Stevie notes, the pearls are drilled, which reduces the number of stones you'll need to prong-set. If you're not going to do any soldering, use medium density fiberboard (MDF) as your backing plates and cover those with goldleaf. You should be able to glue the filligree pieces down, though you may need to use jeweler's epoxy to keep things in place (jeweler's epoxy does not yellow or turn brittle over time). Note that the pieces between each pannel are beads strung on wire. In fact, at the top of each pannel, I see a section of wire-wrap, a pearl, and what's either a round gold bead or a blob of gold solder. The cross and center arch are going to be the hard parts. I'd use a piece of brass strip behind the cross and run it all the way down the length of the backside of the supporting pannel. The bottom of the arch is strung beads again, but you could still use a brass strip for the foundation and simply cover that with the wired beads. The top edges appear to be patterned wire. You can either use wire gimp or patterned gold wire. I'd use gimp, both because it's cheaper and easier to attach. If done carefully, the results should not look naff. I've used similar methods for building stage costume pieces. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 12:11:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22031 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:11:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEEKLQp007577; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEDvDPH024058; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:57:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEDuoPH023925 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:56:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a235.in-tch.com [66.62.107.35]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAEDfE922508 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:41:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DD3ABB3.3EEAACDA@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? References: <20021114090130.99745.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:57:07 -0700 Status: RO With metal? Seriously, though, it looks like a major, major project for a goldsmith/jeweler, no matter what metals you were working with. Gotta admit, though, I'm not picturing you wearing this with one of your lovely gowns ...... What do you want to use it for? --Sue N Kipar wrote: > > Okay... I know this is highly ambitious, but... does anyone have an idea how > to possibly achieve to make something that doesn't look naff or corny but does > look similar to this: > > http://www.ruppenthal.de/html/bildreichsk.html > > I LOVE the Aachener Kaiserkrone of Karl der Grosse and would like to use the > idea of it, but I can't think how to achieve the metal panels in any kind of > realistic way. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 12:14:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22053 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:14:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEF32MV008366; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEF31PH015109; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEF2ePH014939 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.124.3.126] (p14.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.126]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18560 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:57:05 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,pattern stuff From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <023301c28baf$49cffba0$03197644@charter.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3120104431_44373_MIME_Part" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:33:38 -0700 Status: RO > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3120104431_44373_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 11/14/02 12:24 AM, shavaylah at shavaylah@charter.net wrote: Please add another copy for shavaylah@charter.net Me too.. sylvia@ntw.net Thanx Linda J. Thompson wrote: > Cassandra, > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got a > handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern using the > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I > remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely complicated, > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list > together and send them all at once. --MS_Mac_OE_3120104431_44373_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,pattern stuff on 11/14/02 12:24 AM, shavaylah at shavaylah@charter.net wrote:

Please add another copy for s= havaylah@charter.net

Me too..  sylvia@ntw.net

Thanx


Linda J. Thompson wrote:

> Cassandra,
> When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I got a =
> handout that showed  a method of upsizing a standard pattern usin= g the
> industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it <= BR> > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email.  If I =
> remember it is about 2 or three pages.  Was not extremely complic= ated,
> and is more accurate than the split and spread method.
>
> If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list
> together and send them all at once.




--MS_Mac_OE_3120104431_44373_MIME_Part-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 12:15:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22070 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:15:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEFA2MV008492; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEFA1PH017697; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEF9rPH017651 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:09:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 88945 invoked by uid 1005); 14 Nov 2002 15:09:46 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.09099 secs); 14 Nov 2002 15:09:46 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.09099 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 15:09:46 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021114100546.P20091-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] New Italian Renaissance book Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:09:48 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Hey there, list. While wandering around the web, I discovered that one of our listmembers has a new book published! "Dressing Renaissance Florence: Families, Fortunes, and Fine Clothing" by Carole Collier Frick. Here's a review I read of it: > I just devoured my copy of "Dressing Renaissance Florence: Families, > Fortunes, and Fine Clothing" by Carole Collier Frick. > > I'm extremely impressed. I think this book would make an outstanding > addition to any Italian persona's bookshelf. > > It is not about how to make Italian-persona clothing. Instead, it > focuses on how Florentines of the Renaissance used clothing to make > social statements. Along the way, it examines some things that > garbmakers would like hearing about (one table lists various color > combinations found in gowns and linings), but mostly, it's about the > sociology of fashion. > > Chapters: > > * Tailors and the Guild System > * Craftspeople (including how guilds were organized and the role > women played in these guilds, and a map of Florence showing where > guilds were located in town) > * Tailors in 15th-c. society > * Tailoring Family Honor (how Florentines viewed honor and how they > thought honor was expressed through clothing, and also how clothing > changed for various occasions like being in private or out in public, > or going to a convent or serving public office) > * Family Fortunes in Clothes (how much money got spent on it, and the > cottage industry in the selling of old clothes) > * The making of wedding gowns > * Trousseaux for Marriage and Convent (how they differed, and lists > of what went into each) > > And stuff about sumptuary law, information about layers of clothing, > types of dyes (and an examination of mourning clothes), types of > fabric, and clothes as depicted in art -- and how art might have > distorted how people really wore clothes. Embroidery is also covered - > - I learned a few things on every page, it seemed like. > > Needless to say, the painter Ghirlandaio features pretty prominently > here. There are also b/w repros of portraits, unfortunately not super > well detailed, but there are a few here I haven't seen before. There > are also appendices that are very useful -- lists of currency and > measures, categories of clothiers, yardage required for various > garments, glossaries of what yardage terms meant, and a HUGE glossary > of terms -- bigger than Herald's, I think at first glance. The > bibliography is extensive as well. > > It isn't a huge book, but it's very rich in detail, and the writing > is pleasant to read. I'd definitely recommend this book to anybody > wanting to immerse in the period. > > YIS, > > Vangelista di Antonio Dellaluna > Congrats, Carole! Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 12:16:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22075 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:16:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEDg1MV007122; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEDg0PH020034; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEDfpPH019988 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:41:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A837803FA; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:42:15 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20021114090130.99745.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:42:15 -0600 Status: RO Cut then out of heavy gauge sheet brass, with a jewelers saw(slow) or a spiral saw on a dremel/moto-tool(faster but less control). solder on the hinges you might see in the Middle eastern plaque dancers belts. Flexible crown... (or smaller rectangles of brass/copper prebent to the angle you need) quick and dirty- epoxy on the tumbled stones, less quick- epoxy on the settings(maybe bead end caps would do for the smaller ones) and then the stones very secure but slow, -solder on the settings and epoxy in the stones. hoping to be helpful, Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of N Kipar Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:02 AM To: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Okay... I know this is highly ambitious, but... does anyone have an idea how to possibly achieve to make something that doesn't look naff or corny but does look similar to this: http://www.ruppenthal.de/html/bildreichsk.html I LOVE the Aachener Kaiserkrone of Karl der Grosse and would like to use the idea of it, but I can't think how to achieve the metal panels in any kind of realistic way. Any and all suggestions most welcome. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 12:17:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22082 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:17:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEEr1MV008220; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEEr0PH011412; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEEqhPH011284 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f6f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.111]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 125A92632B8 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:52:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c28bed$9f9446c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <3DD00293.9211F42E@inetone.net> <000d01c28b28$04808740$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3DD2EC06.2F7049FA@inetone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:53:41 +0100 Status: RO Hi Diana. Covered up in rectangels? What do you mean? Is it the bodice you refer to? The bodice is made of 5 pieces of fabric joined together. A center front part, two side parts and two back parts. I understand you really would like to make Janet Arnolds bodice? Since you are familiar with sewing, i could help you out and make a pattern draft for you after your meassures, but i dont do it for free, if you payed me a little, i would be willing to help you. The skirt you dont have to have a pattern for, because it is only shaped very little at the top, and it is very easy to make. It is the bodice, wich is rather tricky because of the low cut of the shoulders. Please let me know off list, if you are interrested. Bjarne > I was in awe when I frist saw that gown on Nicole on a website. I am > doublly in awe of your creation from the lace to the gown. How I wish > you lived nearby. I would love to learn bobbin lace. The pictures make > it look easy but I know it is far from simple to do. Equally > impressed. I think this is where I falls to my knees and chant I am > not worthy. > I am reading your website as I type this. I noted the dress from you > have covered in rectangles of fabric. Can you explain what the are for? > > I have Janet Arnolds Book but my drafting skills do not exsist. is there > a way to drape a muslin to get the required shape to make a mockup for a > pattern? Or am I approaching this backwards? > > > Diana > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 12:42:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22209 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:42:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEHf8uY017058; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:41:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEHf21H007432; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEHet1H007338 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:40:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.195.250] (as3-4-8.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.195.250]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gAEHerw02108 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:40:54 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20021114114823.11548.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021114114823.11548.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Burn-out, was Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:36:33 -0800 Status: RO At 11:48 AM +0000 11/14/02, N Kipar wrote: >well, the problem is that i own everything. all gear, all pottery, all tents >(except one) all shelters, all furniture, all glassware, all fier equipment, >all just about everything. pretty much all te others own is their costumes. >admittedly, when they come by plane or train, that is pretty much >what they can >carry. > >anyway, i shall stop winging now, and start talking about historical costumes >again. :-) Nicole, you've got more right to winge than any ten other people I know, based on this description! But I suspect that one of the things that has gotten you into the position you're in is other people's simple inertia. As long as you're doing all this stuff, it's really easy for other people to take it for granted and not even realize how much work is involved. Give them a shaking up -- tell them that you're completely burnt out on shouldering so much of the work, and that if more people don't start pitching in _now_, they're going to have to pitch in and more when you quit. If that doesn't wake them up, then nothing will except actually quitting. Ok, so someone who's coming a long distance by train can't bring a lot of bulky equipment ... but they sure as heck can be there to unload and set up when you drive in! If you're supplying the vast majority of the physical gear, it seems to me that you ought to be able to expect the rest of the group to "pay their way" with labor at the event itself, to say nothing about sharing out the expenses more evenly. An awful lot of good-hearted people are simply sluggish about pitching in if it looks like the work is getting done without them. So stop making it happen without them. Tell them you've earned a vacation and let them find out first-hand how much you've been taking care of. And -- in the final analysis -- figure out what you _do_ enjoy, and make sure you keep doing that. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 13:16:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22333 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:16:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEI54uY019712; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEI521H021261; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (sm0101.promedia.net [208.131.40.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEI4W1H020989 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:04:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from gateway (ppp-208-171-197-17.01.promedia.net [208.171.197.17]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id gAEI4Ug29739 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:04:30 -0800 Message-ID: <002d01c28c08$405aba70$0100a8c0@gateway> From: "Joan Broneske" To: References: <20021114115005.11711.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:04:12 -0800 Status: RO That's odd, I just went to the link and the pictures showed up fine. Maybe try this - the auction # is 981738242 Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:50 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay > Uhm, I'm sorry Joan, but your images are broken. > > Nicole > > --- Joan Broneske wrote: > I don't know if this is the > proper forum for this, but I just put a Ren > > Faire Nobles Gown up for auction on e-Bay. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=981738242&ssPageName=ADME > > :B:LC:US:1 > > > > > > ,%%%, > > Joan Broneske --==% `%%%, > > unicorn@softcom.net |' )`%%, > > \_/\ @%%, > > __@@" %%%--"""-.%, > > /`__| \%% > > \\ \ / | /'%, > > \] | /----'. < `%, > > || `>> > > > || ///` > > /( //( > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 13:26:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22389 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:26:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIQ5uY022187; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:26:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIQ11H003975; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIPu1H003904 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:25:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id KAA23763 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:47:30 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211141847.KAA23763@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:47:30 -0800 (PST) Status: RO 20Kipar?= wrote: > > I actually don't want it to be gold but silver, also, I want the shape, but > different stones and pearls. I was wondering of pewter could be an idea? I'd > rather use silver metal sheet, but where to get something like that? Jeweler's supply. Expect to pay a lot of money for it, though. Those are going to be awfully big sheets. Also expect it to bend easily, since silver is _very_ soft. > and you can then use gold plated copper wire in > > different guages for much of the rest of the crown. Note that the > > Now that's a great idea, I suppose there is silver plated wire about as well? It exists, but is harder to find. Most people use sterling silver wire and work harden it. For something like this, I think you're stuck with using half-hard unless you're willing to anneal it in a kiln. Or, you could go back to my suggestion of using silver gimp or bullion with a nickel wire put down the core for support. If you're going to use a kiln, then consider using that to fuse the filligree cabochon settings, as well. That's actually pretty close to how much of the granulated goldwork and silver niello were done. > > pearls are drilled and attached with wires; half pearls weren't used > > till much later on, and, of course, all the stones are cabochons, and > > claw set. > > Oh yes I know, rememer I COME from Aachen, I have seen the treasury at Aachen > cathedral many times and also the treasures within the cathedral. It is so > gorgeous close up, stunning and I love the roughly set stones, none of that > finely cut business, I much prefer cabochons. Also, there are many stones being > used which are drilled through, this s actually the main way stones and gems > are which are used in the Kaisertreasures. They aren't fastened like that but > must have been used initially for another purpose. A lot of the amethyst and rock crystal stones may have been necklace beads at one time. I know the anglo-saxons were especially fond of those combined with gold wire beads. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 13:35:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22433 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:35:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIZ4uY023039; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIZ21H008846; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIYI1H008347 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:34:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from JAzo478796@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1c8.197b98e (4222) for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:33:06 -0500 (EST) From: JAzo478796@aol.com Message-ID: <1c8.197b98e.2b054660@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1c8.197b98e.2b054660_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10577 Subject: [h-cost] established apparel/textiles writer looking for research/writing work Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:33:04 EST Status: RO --part1_1c8.197b98e.2b054660_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm a New York-based writer actively looking for research/writing/proofreading work in the field of textiles and the history of apparel/costumes. I'm a contributing editor with Fairchild Publications (for whom I write an average of 2-3 in-depth features per month) and a contributing writer for other fashion industry trade publications. I'm also an avid hobby weaver and a college writing instructor able to translate French, and I'm particularly personally interested in the study of historical textiles and costume. My editors find me adept at conceiving, writing and researching well-written stories on tight deadlines and I enjoy strong, loyal, long-term relationships with my editors - who seem to be quite pleased with my work over a period of many years. I'm reliable, professional, mature and consistent, and I'm a stickler for good grammar and meeting deadlines. I'm actively looking for freelance, part-time or full-time writing work and I'd love to hear from anybody who needs a professional writer. Thanks for any tips! -Julia --part1_1c8.197b98e.2b054660_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm a New York-based writer actively looking for research/writing/proofreading work in the field of textiles and the history of apparel/costumes.  I'm a contributing editor with Fairchild Publications (for whom I write an average of 2-3 in-depth features per month) and a contributing writer for other fashion industry trade publications. I'm also an avid hobby weaver and a college writing instructor able to translate French, and I'm particularly personally interested in the study of historical textiles and costume.  My editors find me adept at conceiving, writing and researching well-written stories on tight deadlines and I enjoy strong, loyal, long-term relationships with my editors - who seem to be quite pleased with my work over a period of many years.  I'm reliable, professional, mature and consistent, and I'm a stickler for good grammar and meeting deadlines. I'm actively looking for freelance, part-time or fu! ll-time writing work and I'd love to hear from anybody who needs a professional writer.
Thanks for any tips!
-Julia

--part1_1c8.197b98e.2b054660_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 13:37:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22446 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:37:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIaBuY023158; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIaB1H009504; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEIZn1H009238 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:35:50 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021114183547.77643.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:35:47 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021114.114622.-160407.4.catpurson@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:35:47 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > Nice gown, love the cat Ahhhh I found the problem now, it works in evil Internet Explorer but not in Netscape! Lovely gown, great cat indeed, and oh my, if I had those measurements I would bid on it. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 13:47:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22490 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:47:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIl3uY024376; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIl11H015477; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEIkm1H015352 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:46:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03081 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:53:51 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Italian Renaissance book In-Reply-To: <20021114100546.P20091-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:53:51 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > Hey there, list. While wandering around the web, I discovered that > one of our listmembers has a new book published! > > "Dressing Renaissance Florence: Families, Fortunes, and Fine Clothing" > by Carole Collier Frick. Here's a review I read of it: Carole Collier Frick is a listmember? I posted a few months ago about a lecture she gave here in St. Louis at the Gentilischi exhibit, and also posted separately about the book (post of Aug. 9 titled "Frick on Renaissance Florence"). No one said anything at the time ... now I will be more careful to read the Italian Ren threads, which I don't always follow. Carole, if I knew you were a listmember, I would have said hi after the lecture. Thanks for an enjoyable time. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 14:04:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22649 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:04:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEJ47uY026070; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:04:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEJ431H025021; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEJ2u1H024445 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 48329 invoked by uid 1005); 14 Nov 2002 19:02:48 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.45297 secs); 14 Nov 2002 19:02:48 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.45297 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 19:02:48 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Italian Renaissance book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021114140115.Y20091-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:02:51 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I remember saving a post she made to the list a while back (about gamurras.) I unsubscribed for half of August, & so didn't see the posting about her book. I just ordered it, though, and am looking forward to it. :) Drea On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > > > Hey there, list. While wandering around the web, I discovered that > > one of our listmembers has a new book published! > > > > "Dressing Renaissance Florence: Families, Fortunes, and Fine Clothing" > > by Carole Collier Frick. Here's a review I read of it: > > Carole Collier Frick is a listmember? I posted a few months ago about a > lecture she gave here in St. Louis at the Gentilischi exhibit, and also > posted separately about the book (post of Aug. 9 titled "Frick on > Renaissance Florence"). No one said anything at the time ... now I will be > more careful to read the Italian Ren threads, which I don't always follow. > > Carole, if I knew you were a listmember, I would have said hi after the > lecture. Thanks for an enjoyable time. > > --Robin > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 14:14:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22706 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:14:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEJE2uY027278; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEJE01H000608; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEJDI1H000144 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:13:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03316 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:20:22 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Italian Renaissance book In-Reply-To: <20021114140115.Y20091-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:20:22 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > I unsubscribed for half of August, & so didn't see the posting about her > book. Ah, Drea, see what you miss when you leave us for even a little while? ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 14:49:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22854 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:49:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEJmTuY000603; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEJmO1H018680; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEJlf1H018269 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:47:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17071 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 19:47:40 -0000 Received: from 206-105-173-206.inetone.net (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.206) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 19:47:40 -0000 Message-ID: <3DD3FD8D.609D032@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's References: <20021114113338.18963.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:46:21 -0500 Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > you should have taken my costume class lessons. :-) > You had a class? Ok I am ready for your next one. But beware. I love asking questions. Seriously when is your next class? As far as kicking and screaming goes I'll but up a good front so all think I resisted. LOL I'll contact Sarah about the pattern too. Thank you very much. Di _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 15:46:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23188 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:46:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEKjBuY006096; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:45:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEKj21H018552; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21402.mail.yahoo.com (web21402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEKix1H018505 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:44:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021114204458.26493.qmail@web21402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.121] by web21402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:44:58 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: Burn-out, was Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:44:58 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Nicole, I have to agree with Heather. I'm not quite as completely kitted out as you now, but I'm getting back up there, especially in the kitchen department. The groups I camp with are a bit more self-sustaining since they don't have to bus or train to the events, although I have a couple of bikers. They also formed the group before I joined, and the leaders are gleefully 'blaming' me for the ascent into authenticity. *joking grin* They're a great set of people, with a three Captain leadership, but getting them started on things is a trial. The group always wants to have a joint kitchen or such, but until I actually post the menu and costs with "here's the deadline, speak up or fend for yourself," they don't commit to camping at the event or say what they'd like! Everyone wanted one, but no one was willing to be the first to speak up. Use whatever communication method you have set up for your group and tell them much of what you've told us! Point out that it's a joy to be involved in the recreation, but the work and financial lay-out is beginning to overwhelm you. Give some suggestions on what could help with that...a contribution per event, people helping with set-up, tear-down and kitchen maintenance, maybe others who are closer to you could help with any outside maintenance on the gear or prepwork on food? Ask them for other suggestions too, they may have some ideas especially appropriate to your reinactment society as opposed to my SCA knowledge. If appropriate, give an example of what it cost you in time and finances for a couple of events. Like Heather said, they may not have even thought about what it was taking for you to provide for them, or to volunteer to help, since it was getting done without them saying anything. Now for the obligatory costume content...I too am being led into the dark side of costuming....as in Victorian, Edwardian, and 1660's. I'm ordering books from Lavolta press this week and will be looking for fabrics in LA on the 2nd next month. Jonnalyhn/Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 15:48:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23193 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:48:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEKm1uY006312; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEKm01H020081; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEKlQ1H019770 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:47:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.229]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5L003T332ZAM@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:47:25 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? In-reply-to: <20021114090130.99745.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021114121844.04d84440@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:47:18 -0800 Status: RO >Okay... I know this is highly ambitious, but... does anyone have an idea how >to possibly achieve to make something that doesn't look naff or corny but does >look similar to this: > >http://www.ruppenthal.de/html/bildreichsk.html > >I LOVE the Aachener Kaiserkrone of Karl der Grosse and would like to use the >idea of it, but I can't think how to achieve the metal panels in any kind of >realistic way. Your crown, will it be for SCA, for stage, or what? >Any and all suggestions most welcome. I made a reliquary once. I used the thin wood from fruit crates as a base, then decorated that. I used bits cut from metallic gold paper doilies for gem settings. For gems I used those glass blobs stained glass window folks use (glass fake gems are period), with the shiny side of aluminum foil behind each one (I think backing gems with shiny foil is period). I used pearl beads for pearls (fake pearls are at least Elizabethan, maybe earlier), stuck on with long metal sewing pins so the pinheads showed (another period trick). More of the gold doilies went for filigree, with plain 'gold' foil underneath to cover every surface that wasn't jeweled. You could string 'gold' seed beads for the edges. Sometime after I made this reliquary, I needed money, and someone who had admired it bought it from me (yet another period concept). In the first Indiana Jones film, their Ark of the Covenant was first spray painted gold, then Varathaned (I suppose any shiny finish would do). It gave the piece the right colour, and the right shinyness. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 15:50:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23210 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:50:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEKoGuY006514; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:50:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEKoC1H021174; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:50:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEKnb1H020884 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:49:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-8-175.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.8.175] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18CQvf-000198-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:49:36 +0000 Message-ID: <003c01c28c1f$daa02b80$af0823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <200211141722.JAA23061@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:53:15 -0000 Status: RO Lee wrote: > The cross and center arch are going to be the hard parts. I'd use a piece > of brass strip behind the cross and run it all the way down the length of > the backside of the supporting pannel. The bottom of the arch is strung > beads again, but you could still use a brass strip for the foundation > and simply cover that with the wired beads. Indeed so, this is a very practical method, but the reason I suggested copper, rather than brass, is that it is a lot easier for the novice metal-worker to use. Brass is not user friendly, and work hardens at the blink of an eye. You can heat patinate copper easily in an ordinary domestic oven to a yellow gold colour, but if that is inconvenient then the best option, I think, would be to use gilding metal, which usually can be bought anyplace copper, brass etc sheet metal is sold, and is almost as easy to work with as copper is. You can find just about any wire at http://www.wires.co.uk/ and if you are lucky they may still be doing the special offer on gold-plated copper wire at http://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/SPECIAL_OFFERS.html I myself hanker after the finances to buy lots of their pure silver plated with pure gold, but that's another story... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 16:14:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23306 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:14:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEL43uY007827; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEL411H028811; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAEL3L1H028469 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:03:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5202 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 21:03:20 -0000 Received: from dap-208-166-66-234.erie-tnt-1.pa.erie.net (HELO bookbusiness) (208.166.66.234) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 21:03:20 -0000 From: "Janet Davis" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20021114183547.77643.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:03:28 -0500 Status: RO Lovely gown, great cat indeed, and oh my, if I had those measurements I would bid on it. My sentiments exactly! Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 16:34:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23437 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:33:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELY5uY010891; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:34:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELY31H015350; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f198.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELX81H014741 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:33:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:33:02 -0800 Received: from 65.70.197.45 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:33:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.70.197.45] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Italian Renaissance book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2002 21:33:02.0880 (UTC) FILETIME=[69574200:01C28C25] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:33:02 +0000 Status: RO My husband surprised me with my copy, and it's definitely worth looking forward to! Mary/Katerine >I remember saving a post she made to the list a while back (about >gamurras.) > >I unsubscribed for half of August, & so didn't see the posting about her >book. I just ordered it, though, and am looking forward to it. :) > >Drea > >On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Robin Netherton wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > > > > > Hey there, list. While wandering around the web, I discovered that > > > one of our listmembers has a new book published! > > > > > > "Dressing Renaissance Florence: Families, Fortunes, and Fine Clothing" > > > by Carole Collier Frick. Here's a review I read of it: > > > > Carole Collier Frick is a listmember? I posted a few months ago about a > > lecture she gave here in St. Louis at the Gentilischi exhibit, and also > > posted separately about the book (post of Aug. 9 titled "Frick on > > Renaissance Florence"). No one said anything at the time ... now I will >be > > more careful to read the Italian Ren threads, which I don't always >follow. > > > > Carole, if I knew you were a listmember, I would have said hi after the > > lecture. Thanks for an enjoyable time. > > > > --Robin > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 16:37:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23459 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:37:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELb7uY011190; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELb61H017081; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELaZ1H016774 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:36:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-8-175.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.8.175] helo=dan) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18CRf8-0004iE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:36:34 +0000 Message-ID: <004c01c28c26$6a739200$af0823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021114135641.28631.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:40:12 -0000 Status: RO Nicole wrote: >>this is one of my >> jewellery passions, almost as desirable as the coronal of Princess >> Blanche, > what does this look like? the name doesn't ring a bell. Beautiful! I haven't been able to track down an image on the net, but I'll see if I can get a book out of the library next time I'm there, so I can point you in the right direction. > I actually don't want it to be gold but silver, also, I want the shape, but > different stones and pearls. I was wondering of pewter could be an idea? I'd > rather use silver metal sheet, but where to get something like that? Well, I do it by getting the tube to Farringdon and wandering up to Hatton Garden, but I'm not well up on your part of the world, and have got no idea where you might get it. If you look in your local yellow pages you may find a bullion dealer; if that doesn't work e-mail me off list. > Now that's a great idea, I suppose there is silver plated wire about as well? Yes; also at http://www.wires.co.uk/ > > The metal panels look as if they are probably enamelled, but remember > > that the tesserae may be gems. > > Have fun! > > Nah, no enammeling here, not even cold enamel, I want to keep it simple but the > shape like the crown and from metal and not that horrid plastiline type stuff. It is a lovely shape, and I agree on the cold-enammeling. It gets very tatty very quickly, from what I'm told:-( best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 16:38:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23475 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:38:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELa0uY011061; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELa01H016430; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f62.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELZX1H016122 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:35:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:35:28 -0800 Received: from 65.70.197.45 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:35:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.70.197.45] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress diary updated Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2002 21:35:28.0401 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0140010:01C28C25] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:35:28 +0000 Status: RO http://www.eternasilk.com They have a list of retail sources on the site. Mary/Katerine > > Is there a source for the Eterna silk in the US? Or is this something > > that much be ordered from england? > > > >I don't have the email or web site handy, but I went and dug out the box I >have. When they started to carry it, they offered a large collection at a >low price, that was certainly worth it! Sometimes I just like to fondle >the 460 skeins that I have - of course, this love-to-touch is one of the >reasons I bought the house I rent an apartment in. I didn't think that I >would find too many places where I could have a very large room that is >stuffed with fabric, and another bedroom just for sewing! > >It is carried by >Yodamo Inc >2023 East Sims Way Suite 183 >Port Townsend >WA 98368 >360-379-3250 Fax 360-379-2839 > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 16:41:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23500 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:41:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELeAuY011512; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELe81H018811; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta01bw.bigpond.com (mta01bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELdg1H018547 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:39:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.78]) by mta01bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta01bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H5L5HZ00.8W3 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:39:35 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.212 ([203.54.114.212]) by bwmam04.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 29/59968741); 15 Nov 2002 07:39:56 Message-ID: <3DD5074A.826AC6E@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns for the mid 1600's References: <20021114113508.58191.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 06:40:10 -0800 Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > > > I have Janet Arnolds Book but my drafting skills do not exsist. is there > > a way to drape a muslin to get the required shape to make a mockup for a > > pattern? Or am I approaching this backwards? > > I personally don't thionk that this works, because the shaping of the bodices > is very characteristic, but Bjarne is the knowledgable one. > When I made a 1660's gown I had no other clothing from this period to base it on so I fitted the bodice over my 16th century corset. I realise that this isn't quite the right shape, but I figured that this was just to make sure it would fit right and give a roughly conical shape and the different seam lines and boning patterns of the bodice would give it a more appropriate shape for the period. I actually created the pattern using elements of bodices from Norah Waugh and Janet Arnold, sizing it up, so I had the rough shape and then put it over the corset. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 16:58:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23549 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:58:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELw3uY013173; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELw11H028016; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAELve1H027827 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-8-175.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.8.175] helo=dan) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18CRzX-0006rJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:57:39 +0000 Message-ID: <008001c28c29$5c9c7360$af0823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:01:18 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I've just been having great fun looking at the 2002 Online Costume ball, and got to the "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" costume, (Group 8, guest 29). It's beautiful, but I can't stop giggling; my brain keeps substituting Teddy's Custard Tart Costume instead. I think maybe I should go and have a cup of coffee... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 17:06:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23590 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:06:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEM6BuY014027; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEM691H002647; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEM5r1H002483 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.124.5.103] (p39.3c07.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.5.103]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18985 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:00:20 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern upsizing instructions From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3DD3B31F.7070701@comcast.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:43:44 -0700 Status: RO on 11/14/02 7:28 AM, Linda J. Thompson at LindaJThompson@comcast.net wrote: > Hi, > I found my handout and will be dealing with it this weekend. > > Those that want the list must send ME email. DO NOT POST IT TO THIS LIST > PLEASE. I will > probably miss you. (I caught a couple, but not until I had already trashed > ones before > it).... > > Thanks I would love one. Sylvia Rognstad -- Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 17:13:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23620 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:13:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEMD2uY014748; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEMD01H006551; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEMCL1H006124 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18CSDg-000EpD-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:12:19 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie References: <007701c287c9$bdd00ca0$0b7f4ed5@pavilion> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Subject: [h-cost] costume in art / Flemish masters Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:20:02 +0000 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote >I also spend a lot more time researching costume issues that have very >little to do with making clothing -- e.g. the development of costume >history, or the use of costume in artwork in various periods. These are >things I just barely touched on when I was re-enacting and didn't have the >time or resources to pursue. > Now here's an opportunity to ask a question, and it touches on capes/cloaks as well. We just got back from a week in Bruges - lucky me! Lots and lots of gorgeous 15th century Flemish altarpieces, especially Memling. Almost all of them feature the Virgin Mary and/or other female saints. They generally have huge amounts of skirt spread about them, but also, very commonly, an enveloping cloak that drapes over the head (or behind the head, in a way that can't possibly hold if she moves) round the body, often over the knees and puddles on the floor. Obviously, the Virgin is dressed very richly, but I'm wondering if this is realistic, or just an artistic opportunity to play with colour effects on great swathes of fabric? Do we have any evidence whether Flemish nobility wore large cloaks, indoors, in this way? It also seems that the donors are always dressed in a different style from the saints, and to me it looks earlier than the saints. The saints have brocade gowns, fitted smoothly to the waist and then flared, with a fancy girdle at waist or slightly lower. Necklines are not very visible. The donors are almost always in V-necked gowns, dark with a white trim on the V, and flowerpot hennin. I wonder if the donors are dressed in a modest, self-effacing older style, while the saints are in the height of fashioin, or have I got my styles mixed up? I am also chasing down a 16th-century Descent from the Cross, with Mary Magdalene wearing the most outlandish hat I have ever seen! Watch this space. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 17:30:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23715 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:30:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEMU5uY016623; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEMU31H015699; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEMTC1H015234 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:29:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A3CD13051A; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:29:33 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20021114135641.28631.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:29:33 -0600 Status: RO Nicole- I have a jpg of this coronet- from a research project on medieval gemstones, shall I send it to you? Thought I would ask before I dumped a suspicious attachment into your e-mail box. Betsy Marshall -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of N Kipar Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 7:57 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > > There is a very large picture at: > > http://www.kulmbach.net/~MGF-Gymnasium/bilderdaten/investitur/kaiserkr > one2.JPG Super, thanks for that one! I have postcards at home, but online versions are always welcome. > which lets you see a lot of the construction; this is one of my > jewellery passions, almost as desirable as the coronal of Princess > Blanche, what does this look like? the name doesn't ring a bell. so I have been collecting the wherewithal to tackle the > project. In practical financial terms, copper covered by gold leaf is > the way to go, I actually don't want it to be gold but silver, also, I want the shape, but different stones and pearls. I was wondering of pewter could be an idea? I'd rather use silver metal sheet, but where to get something like that? and you can then use gold plated copper wire in > different guages for much of the rest of the crown. Note that the Now that's a great idea, I suppose there is silver plated wire about as well? > pearls are drilled and attached with wires; half pearls weren't used > till much later on, and, of course, all the stones are cabochons, and > claw set. Oh yes I know, rememer I COME from Aachen, I have seen the treasury at Aachen cathedral many times and also the treasures within the cathedral. It is so gorgeous close up, stunning and I love the roughly set stones, none of that finely cut business, I much prefer cabochons. Also, there are many stones being used which are drilled through, this s actually the main way stones and gems are which are used in the Kaisertreasures. They aren't fastened like that but must have been used initially for another purpose. Particularly striking in rock crystalsand the like. Then again the chancel has a Roman bowl in its centre, set upside down, a bowl cu out of a rock crystal. > The metal panels look as if they are probably enamelled, but remember > that the tesserae may be gems. > Have fun! Nah, no enammeling here, not even cold enamel, I want to keep it simple but the shape like the crown and from metal and not that horrid plastiline type stuff. Cheers Stevie Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 17:33:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23720 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:33:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEMX1uY016928; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEMX11H017328; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEMW71H016846 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:32:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18CSWs-000IqO-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:32:07 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather(was: Flying with a Parasol?) References: <3DCBF81A.4020207@misc.com> <009101c28783$d11e88e0$0b1723d9@dan> <200211132357.16334.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200211132357.16334.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:30:55 +0000 Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote >On Tuesday 12 November 2002 04:54 pm, Jean Waddie wrote: >> Stevie Gamble wrote > >[text cut here] > >> While we can't necessarily tell whether people had shorter skirts for >> bad weather, I'm sure those who had to take care of their clothes had >> simpler, more easily cleaned outfits for muddy days. >> >> I always wonder how short servants wore their skirts, as I struggle up >> steep spiral stairs in castles, even with both hands free for my skirts. >> Is anyone aware of any evidence, for 12th - 14th century? I just can't >> imagine how they climbed with buckets of water or trays of food. > >One could always tuck ones skirts up, as you see in some miniatures depicting >farm peasants (think Tres Riches Heures du Duc de Barry). > You start to wonder, when did they ever let their skirts down? I suppose they were quicker at it, but it does take a minute to kirtle them securely. But then, I do know some folk/peasant costumes where the standard version is with the top skirts tucked up, and they really only wear them down for Sundays and festivals. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 18:25:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24032 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:24:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAENO2uY021413; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAENO01H012557; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAENNn1H012445 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:23:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A084B9A00286; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:23:48 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A08425E70236; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:23:48 -0600 Message-ID: <004801c28c34$df5b8420$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <008001c28c29$5c9c7360$af0823d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:23:42 -0500 Status: RO Stevie, That none-tart Guest is a h-costume member.... guess who! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 5:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" > Hi all, > > I've just been having great fun looking at the 2002 Online Costume > ball, and got to the > > "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" > > costume, (Group 8, guest 29). It's beautiful, but I can't stop > giggling; my brain keeps substituting Teddy's Custard Tart Costume > instead. I think maybe I should go and have a cup of coffee... > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 19:45:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24480 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:45:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAENpBuY023977; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:53:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAENp11H025708; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAENoW1H025433 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCuwjxDE6O6Xtrkq+7qFM+d70bTwf1fV2mg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHL6EF83; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:50:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" Message-ID: <20021114.175030.-351375.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-10,12-16 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:50:30 -0600 Status: RO Oh! Oh! I think I know! I think I know!!! And the reference to Teddy is more appropriate than you may realize...... Karen On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:23:42 -0500 "Penny Ladnier" writes: > Stevie, > > That none-tart Guest is a h-costume member.... guess who! > > Penny Ladnier ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 20:42:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25125 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:42:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF1i5Yb008237; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF1i01H007283; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF1hQ1H007067 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <200211150143180530092ot8e>; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:43:19 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021114172639.00a4c2a0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: Burn-out, was Re: [h-cost] costuming in rainy weather In-Reply-To: References: <20021114114823.11548.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> <20021114114823.11548.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:33:51 -0800 Status: RO thanks everybody for this thread. it has been very instructive. I am at the complete other end where I am just starting out in it. just putting together my initial costume and kit was overwhelming (how did we live without e-bay). I am being told now that I really need a pavilion. It is instructive at this point to stop and ask, how far do I want to go on this. I agree that I need a pavilion so I can take naps, but I am going to be really careful about assuming responsibility for anyone else other than myself . Luckily, we already have someone who is in charge of things and is very autocratic but not at all shy about delegation. I think that that is the key. You need to let your group know that either they are on board or there isn't a ship. the always funny maryann At 09:36 AM 11/14/2002 -0800, Heather Rose Jones wrote: >At 11:48 AM +0000 11/14/02, N Kipar wrote: > > > >>well, the problem is that i own everything. all gear, all pottery, all tents >>(except one) all shelters, all furniture, all glassware, all fier equipment, >>all just about everything. pretty much all te others own is their costumes. >>admittedly, when they come by plane or train, that is pretty much what >>they can >>carry. >> >>anyway, i shall stop winging now, and start talking about historical costumes >>again. :-) > >Nicole, you've got more right to winge than any ten other people I know, >based on this description! But I suspect that one of the things that has >gotten you into the position you're in is other people's simple >inertia. As long as you're doing all this stuff, it's really easy for >other people to take it for granted and not even realize how much work is >involved. Give them a shaking up -- tell them that you're completely >burnt out on shouldering so much of the work, and that if more people >don't start pitching in _now_, they're going to have to pitch in and more >when you quit. If that doesn't wake them up, then nothing will except >actually quitting. > >Ok, so someone who's coming a long distance by train can't bring a lot of >bulky equipment ... but they sure as heck can be there to unload and set >up when you drive in! If you're supplying the vast majority of the >physical gear, it seems to me that you ought to be able to expect the rest >of the group to "pay their way" with labor at the event itself, to say >nothing about sharing out the expenses more evenly. > >An awful lot of good-hearted people are simply sluggish about pitching in >if it looks like the work is getting done without them. So stop making it >happen without them. Tell them you've earned a vacation and let them find >out first-hand how much you've been taking care of. > >And -- in the final analysis -- figure out what you _do_ enjoy, and make >sure you keep doing that. > >Heather >-- >***** >Heather Rose Jones >hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu >***** >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 20:46:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25140 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:46:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF1l1Yb008536; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF1l11H008403; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF1kU1H008203 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:46:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m140.in-tch.com [216.166.191.140]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAF1Usf07550 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:30:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DD45207.973AC18C@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Italian Renaissance book References: <20021114140115.Y20091-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:46:47 -0700 Status: RO Who'd you order it from? I think I might have to ...uhm...treat myself to an early holiday present. Yeah, that's right. Research. Not frivolous at all! --sue Drea Leed wrote: > > I remember saving a post she made to the list a while back (about > gamurras.) > > I unsubscribed for half of August, & so didn't see the posting about her > book. I just ordered it, though, and am looking forward to it. :) > > Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 21:14:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25235 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:14:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF2G3Yb010065; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF2G11H017390; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF2Fo1H017312 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:15:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from Miscmal@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1be.14583959 (4262) for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:15:34 -0500 (EST) From: Miscmal@aol.com Message-ID: <1be.14583959.2b05b2c6@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1be.14583959.2b05b2c6_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 Subject: [h-cost] Re: tire of reinacting/ pattern stuff. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:15:34 EST Status: RO --part1_1be.14583959.2b05b2c6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Delurking and pleading of a copy also, Please! miscmal@aol.com --part1_1be.14583959.2b05b2c6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Delurking
and
pleading of a copy also, Please!
miscmal@aol.com --part1_1be.14583959.2b05b2c6_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 14 21:56:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25342 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:56:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF2w5Yb012457; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:58:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF2w01H029742; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20210.mail.yahoo.com (web20210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAF2vl1H029701 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:57:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021115025747.85236.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:57:47 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Whalebone Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:57:47 +1100 (EST) Status: RO I was wondering if there's someone who can help me with a question that's been running around in my head (apologies to anyone who sees this more than once). What were the properties of "whalebone"? Was it supple or hard, or did it vary from supple when freshly harvested to hard when dry? I've seen a type of plastic boning that is referred to as artificial whalebone, and am wondering how accurate this is. Janet Arnold mentions the possibility of whalebone in some of her articles and refers to it as extremely hard..... Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 01:27:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25981 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:27:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF6S3Yb023820; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF6S00M027488; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f227.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF6R90M027250 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:27:04 -0800 Received: from 65.65.96.107 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 06:27:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.65.96.107] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Italian Renaissance book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2002 06:27:04.0660 (UTC) FILETIME=[03BAE140:01C28C70] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 06:27:03 +0000 Status: RO My copy came from Amazon... Mary/Katerine >Who'd you order it from? I think I might have to ...uhm...treat myself >to an early holiday present. >Yeah, that's right. Research. Not frivolous at all! >--sue > >Drea Leed wrote: > > > > I remember saving a post she made to the list a while back (about > > gamurras.) > > > > I unsubscribed for half of August, & so didn't see the posting about her > > book. I just ordered it, though, and am looking forward to it. :) > > > > Drea >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 02:37:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06521 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:37:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF7d2Yb026619; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF7d00M013805; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF7cJ0M013664 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m28.in-tch.com [216.166.191.28]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAF7Mhf09885 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:22:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DD4A47D.12C18122@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Question about tablet weaving... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:38:37 -0700 Status: RO I've spent part of the evening puzzling over the sleeve bits in the MoL book on textiles, with the aim of picking up some authentic details for a fitted gown I want to make for myself. There are several mentions of edgings on things that turn out to be narrow tablet-woven bands, woven directly onto the raw edge of the sleeve (in the diagram of this in the book, it looks as if you're simultaneously weaving the edging, and sewing it into place...with one of the weaving threads, maybe?) I've got enough cards to do it (from a workshop), and figured I'd probably do it in silk thread, once I learn it well enough, but what I don't have, is instructions. argh! Having managed to thoroughly misplace my only book on tablet/card weaving, I did some poking on the internet (which I'll explore more this weekend), but so far I'm not seeing anything like this--folks are usually talking about belts, or bigger braids. Any help--recommended how-to books, articles, websites would be very much appreciated! --sue (see what you're making me do, Robin? or do I get to blame Teddy, too...no, wait, I'll blame him when I'm sticking my fingers, making cloth buttons....;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 03:21:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22197 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:21:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF8N3Yb027875; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF8N10M022388; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF8Lx0M022175 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07712 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:29:06 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about tablet weaving... In-Reply-To: <3DD4A47D.12C18122@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:29:06 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I've spent part of the evening puzzling over the sleeve bits in the MoL > book on textiles, with the aim of picking up some authentic details for > a fitted gown I want to make for myself. There are several mentions of > edgings on things that turn out to be narrow tablet-woven bands, woven > directly onto the raw edge of the sleeve ... > (see what you're making me do, Robin? or do I get to blame Teddy, > too...no, wait, I'll blame him when I'm sticking my fingers, making > cloth buttons....;-) :-) Don't blame me for the tablet-woven edges. They're cool, indeed, but I can't tablet-weave and don't need another hobby, so I have pointed myself to the finds that show that other seam edgings were used too, and followed those as my model. If you tablet-weave your edges, you'll certainly get extra cheers, but if you decide not to tablet-weave, that doesn't mean your garment is any less authentic in style. The cloth buttons are easy easy. Teddy learned from me via email, they're that easy. But I still generally use metal ones. Plenty of evidence for those too, and other types as well. You have lots of choices, not just labor-intensive ones. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 04:22:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07033 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:22:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF9O2Yb000278; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF9O10M004925; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF9N50M004576 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:23:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id ACF84F230286; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:23:04 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ACF9268000A8; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:23:05 -0600 Message-ID: <00c601c28c88$8e5a03e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] The Ball is Complete Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:22:44 -0500 Status: RO Well... someone is arriving late... Teddy. I will add him when his photo arrives. I will let you know when that happens. For those who have been watching the Ball, the latest additions start in Group 10. We have 75 guests to the Online Costume Ball 2002 from 8 countries. www.onlinecostumeball.com The guests sent in 108 photos of themselves in costume. We have four new categories this year, prom, film, theatre, and wearable art costumes. There are a good many film costumes, with Moulin Rouge, Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars being the popular film costumes for the year. Many thanks to our visitors and guests for attending the Ball 2002. Many guests provided wonderful front and back views of their costumes. The construction webpages that the guests provided a link, will answer a lot of questions from visitors wanting to know how the costume was made. Have fun at the Ball!!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 04:40:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24101 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:40:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF9g2Yb000814; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF9g00M008472; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f41.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAF9fs0M008442 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:41:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:41:49 -0800 Received: from 169.233.3.149 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:41:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [169.233.3.149] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2002 09:41:49.0146 (UTC) FILETIME=[3839F3A0:01C28C8B] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:41:48 -0800 Status: RO Well, I know that the crown was made of seperate panels that are hinged together, so they come apart for cleaning. I don't know if that would help, but it's *definately* easier to work panel by panel than to try and make it all at once, like a hat. (I think you can even see the little hinges in the photo - it looks like a line of tiny beads, but there's actually a little gold pin in there holding the panels together. I saw a picture once of the crown being taken apart for cleaning, but that was in middle school at least, and a good 6 years distant.) -Laura Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 09:01:30AM +0000, N Kipar wrote: > http://www.ruppenthal.de/html/bildreichsk.html > I can't think how to achieve the metal panels in any kind of > realistic way. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 09:25:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16685 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:25:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEQBYb010685; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:26:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEQ10M006493; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEPi0M006355 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:25:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-045.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.45]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6AC19FBFB for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:25:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DD503E1.7040208@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Fabrick question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:25:37 +0100 Status: RO Hi, I just cut out the lining for my 16th century loose gown and found out that I bought too much fabrick. :-) And I was wandering what to make out of it. It is dark red silk taffeta. Is it usable for a 1525 Italian gown like this one? http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/Italiandress1525.html Or a 16th century gown? Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 09:25:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16692 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:25:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEQrYb010718; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEQq0M006743; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:26:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAFEPl0M006387 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:25:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 75780 invoked by uid 1005); 15 Nov 2002 14:25:43 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.089817 secs); 15 Nov 2002 14:25:43 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.089817 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 14:25:43 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" In-Reply-To: <008001c28c29$5c9c7360$af0823d9@dan> Message-ID: <20021115092001.J38232-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:25:44 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Almost as funny as being there...Dan and I were promenading around the new boston faire, Dan in her exceedingly proper gloves, bonnet, etc., when some lady wandered up and blithely asked her, "So, are you a tart?" I wish I'd had a camera so I could have captured the "so, do I answer politely, laugh in her face, or kick this wench's ass" look that appeared on Danielle's face. ;) Drea On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote: > Hi all, > > I've just been having great fun looking at the 2002 Online Costume > ball, and got to the > > "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" > > costume, (Group 8, guest 29). It's beautiful, but I can't stop > giggling; my brain keeps substituting Teddy's Custard Tart Costume > instead. I think maybe I should go and have a cup of coffee... > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 09:40:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16822 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:40:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEg3Yb011572; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEg10M011219; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEff0M011109 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:41:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5M00A9QGPW5M@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:39:32 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about tablet weaving... In-reply-to: X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Robin Netherton Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:38:53 -0500 Status: RO No!!! Don't tell her that, Robin!!! Encourage her to do this edging so she'll write a How-to, post or publish it somewhere for the rest of us poor souls who would like to do this but can't figure it out. :) Sue, you may very well be the first or one of the first to try this. The book you have sited has the only real explanation I've seen of this technique. most information about tablet weaving are all about separate braids as you have said. although I can't help much here, I would like to encourage you to try to figure it out. Both for your benefit and the general knowledge base. Linda K-S At 2:29 AM -0600 11/15/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >> I've spent part of the evening puzzling over the sleeve bits in the MoL >> book on textiles, with the aim of picking up some authentic details for >> a fitted gown I want to make for myself. There are several mentions of >> edgings on things that turn out to be narrow tablet-woven bands, woven >> directly onto the raw edge of the sleeve ... >> (see what you're making me do, Robin? or do I get to blame Teddy, >> too...no, wait, I'll blame him when I'm sticking my fingers, making >> cloth buttons....;-) > >:-) Don't blame me for the tablet-woven edges. They're cool, indeed, but I >can't tablet-weave and don't need another hobby, so I have pointed myself >to the finds that show that other seam edgings were used too, and followed >those as my model. If you tablet-weave your edges, you'll certainly get >extra cheers, but if you decide not to tablet-weave, that doesn't mean >your garment is any less authentic in style. > >The cloth buttons are easy easy. Teddy learned from me via email, they're >that easy. But I still generally use metal ones. Plenty of evidence for >those too, and other types as well. You have lots of choices, not just >labor-intensive ones. > >--Robin > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 09:49:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16877 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:49:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEp3Yb012190; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEp10M014223; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFEou0M014182 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a257.in-tch.com [66.62.107.57]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAFEZKf08325 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:35:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DD509E2.60897C23@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about tablet weaving... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:51:14 -0700 Status: RO Oh, I dunno, Robin. The dress is your fault, ergo.....;-P It's nice to know that there were other finishes done for sleeve edges. I'm assuming that if I lined my sleeves, this wouldn't be an issue, but to this point, the only things I've personally seen about finishing those (sleeve) edges is what I saw in the MoL book. The buttonholes themselves are reinforced with a strip of fabric (silk, IIRC), and then there's the narrow band for the raw edge. Pretty cool! What other treatments have you seen? It'd be good to have a backup plan in case this edging falls through..... This gown is more of an undergown, so I'm using cloth buttons for the sleeves, and I'll be lacing the front. I want to make the details as authentic as possible, both as a learning process, and for this competition (my main impetus for actually getting it done! ) that's coming up. The category is "Single Garment--Construction," so the little, labor-intensive touches are important, I'm thinking . I wanted to do something completely different from my usual later-16th c. stuff. Of course, if this were a non-SCA competition, I'd be entirely tempted to try my hand at one of those droolsome sack-backed gowns. I've also got a digital camera, so I'm hoping to take pix of the stages, and someday put it up on a website like those lovely dress diaries I see. That's the theory, at any rate! --sue, off to get ready for work (hi ho, hi ho.....) Robin Netherton wrote: > > :-) Don't blame me for the tablet-woven edges. They're cool, indeed, but I > can't tablet-weave and don't need another hobby, so I have pointed myself > to the finds that show that other seam edgings were used too, and followed > those as my model. If you tablet-weave your edges, you'll certainly get > extra cheers, but if you decide not to tablet-weave, that doesn't mean > your garment is any less authentic in style. > > The cloth buttons are easy easy. Teddy learned from me via email, they're > that easy. But I still generally use metal ones. Plenty of evidence for > those too, and other types as well. You have lots of choices, not just > labor-intensive ones. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 10:27:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17218 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:27:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFT6Yb014881; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:29:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFT30M028051; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFSs0M027982 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:28:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-95-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.95.44] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18CiOr-0003nx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:28:53 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c28cbc$383605c0$2c5f22d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] rare and unusual costumes and textiles 17th-mid20th Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:32:34 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, http://www.meg-andrews.com/index.htm Some achingly beautiful pieces here, with achingly horrendous prices, but it's really worth a look:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 10:29:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17254 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:29:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFV6Yb015101; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:31:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFV20M028904; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40911.mail.yahoo.com (web40911.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAFFUl0M028770 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:30:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021115153042.25303.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40911.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:30:42 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021115144201.11213.52549.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Site for cardweaving on dress enclosures Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:30:42 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > Any help--recommended how-to books, articles, > websites would be very > much appreciated! > --sue Greetings Sue, A lady by the name of Dame Helen in the SCA has a useful page on just this topic: http://www.damehelen.com/sewing/card.html I've seen her card-woven edges on a gown up-close and they're really nifty. Best of luck! -Tasha (Marcele de Montsegur in the SCA) ===== "When the blind leadeth the blind. . . get out of the way." -1st grader's proverb __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 10:37:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17295 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:37:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFcUYb015623; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:38:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFc60M002217; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:38:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail2.mackie.com [12.144.237.152]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFaC0M001291 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:36:16 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Question about tablet weaving... Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Question about tablet weaving... Thread-Index: AcKMtWp5UoVRHL3wTFeqGWnYjAtkzwABnq3w From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAFFaC0M001291 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:35:53 -0800 Status: RO Hi all, Sue, I have actually done the tablet woven edges on the sleeves (and possibly, but I can't remember right now, the lacing strip in the back) of a dress that I did about two years ago. I can't give you step by step instructions because I haven't done it since. Depending on the urgency, I may be able to give some pointers down the road as I have another dress that I'll be doing the same way in the next couple of months. I do recall that the weft thread only goes one directions. You sew through the fabric, pull the weft through your warp threads and turn the cards. Then you loop around under the warp threads to come up through the fabric again. This is different than a normal tablet weave where your weft thread goes both directions. Sorry I can't be of more help at the moment. Let me know if you'd like to hear details when I actually get around to doing this again. Best regards, Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 10:49:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17392 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:49:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFo3Yb016597; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFo2AS007447; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mcprox.methodist.edu ([204.84.112.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFFnoAS007331 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:49:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by mcprox.methodist.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:45:55 -0500 Received: from 36kls01feswe (36kls01feswe.methodist.edu [10.10.50.138]) by mcprox.methodist.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id WK1YFSJV; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:45:54 -0500 From: Rebecca Wendelken To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <001901c28cbe$88cb60a0$8a320a0a@methodist.edu> References: <20021115144201.11213.52549.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Re: tablet woven edges Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:49:08 -0500 Status: RO > > No!!! Don't tell her that, Robin!!! Encourage her to do this edging > so she'll write a How-to, post or publish it somewhere for the rest > of us poor souls who would like to do this but can't figure it out. > :) > > Sue, you may very well be the first or one of the first to try this. > The book you have sited has the only real explanation I've seen of > this technique. most information about tablet weaving are all about > separate braids as you have said. although I can't help much here, I > would like to encourage you to try to figure it out. Both for your > benefit and the general knowledge base. > Definitely try it. It isn't as hard as it looks. Warp your tablets for the pattern you want. It helps if the thread thickness is similar to the fabric you are using. It also helps if you have a selvedge edge to work with, but it isn't a necessity -- you can work this over a hemmed edge. Thread a needle onto the end of your weft. Start by taking a stitch in the fabric to anchor the weft. Then pass the weft through your shed. Turn your cards, pass the weft back through, and take another stitch in the fabric. Continue. You can also take a stitch at each passing of the weft and get a tubular edging. If this isn't clear (it's easier to show than say), let me know and I'll draw it up for you and send it email. Good luck and huzzah for creativity!!! Fuil _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 11:36:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17865 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:36:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFGb3Yb021041; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFGb1AS000758; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAFGa7AS000147 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18887 invoked by uid 1005); 15 Nov 2002 16:35:59 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.152761 secs); 15 Nov 2002 16:35:59 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.152761 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 16:35:59 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moll Flanders? In-Reply-To: <10.283d7240.2b03e217@aol.com> Message-ID: <20021115113542.N38232-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:36:01 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I don't recall seeing Angela in it. It looked like it was made pretty recently. Drea On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/13/02 6:14:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, drea@nospam > writes: > > > > Hello, y'all. > > > > I happened upon "The Adventures and Misadventures of Moll Flanders" the > > other night, on Lifetime. And was seduced by the scrummy looking gowns. > > Can anyone (Nicole?) give a rating on just how accurate the mid-17th c. > > clothing in that movie was? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Drea > > > > Drea, > > Which version was it? The one with Angela Lansbury? I have been looking for > a copy of that for Angela's Files, but am having the worst time tracking it > down. > > Kit > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 12:11:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18012 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:11:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHC3Yb024387; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHC18p018092; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHBD8p017719 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:11:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-95-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.95.44] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Cjzr-0004d5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:11:11 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c28cca$82aaa8a0$2c5f22d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Unusual 1870's bustle Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:14:51 -0000 Status: RO Hi, The Meg Andrews web-sitesite I recommended has, amongst all the more obvious goodies, an unusual 1870's bustle; large pictures are at: http://www.meg-andrews.com/engCost/underwear/items/u5030_D.htm for the Victorian experts amongst us. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 12:15:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18034 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:15:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHH1Yb024931; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHH18p020525; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHGt8p020481 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:16:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-95-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.95.44] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Ck5O-00053n-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:16:54 +0000 Message-ID: <003301c28ccb$4f3f6680$2c5f22d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] MANCHU WOMAN'S FUCHSIA JACKET Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:20:35 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, One for the embroiderers from the Meg Andrews web-sitesite I recommended: http://www.meg-andrews.com/oriental/courtrobes/items/5437_D.htm and, in much bigger closeup: http://www.meg-andrews.com/oriental/courtrobes/items/5437b_D.htm best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 12:21:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18049 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:21:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHM2Yb025472; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHM18p023091; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAFHL78p022555 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWq1Bmbp78oahxXuwgJxP5bd9Enw1Unh2Jw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHN2H7LR; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:20:39 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay Message-ID: <20021115.121727.-154569.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,5-7 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:08:15 -0500 Status: RO <<>> If I had those measurements I would be doing a happy dance in all kinds of beautiful, fitted gowns. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 12:28:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18073 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:28:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHT8Yb026229; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHT18p026713; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHSc8p026514 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gAFHSbk0009007 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:28:37 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" In-Reply-To: <20021115092001.J38232-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:28:37 -0500 (EST) Status: RO So, why in the world did she ask that question? the red dress thing again? Ah, the tactless denizens of the reenacting world... it's hard to know whether to smack them as they so richly deserve, or, as you say, just laugh! - Mara On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > Almost as funny as being there...Dan and I were promenading around the new > boston faire, Dan in her exceedingly proper gloves, bonnet, etc., when > some lady wandered up and blithely asked her, "So, are you a tart?" > > I wish I'd had a camera so I could have captured the "so, do I answer > politely, laugh in her face, or kick this wench's ass" look that appeared > on Danielle's face. ;) > > Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 12:42:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18209 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:42:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHi3Yb027728; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFHi18p004966; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAFHhP8p004634 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:43:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 92180 invoked by uid 1005); 15 Nov 2002 17:43:16 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.067589 secs); 15 Nov 2002 17:43:16 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.067589 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 17:43:16 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021115124215.L38232-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:43:19 -0500 (EST) Status: RO She wasn't a re-enactor, just a visitor. Yes, it was the turkey red dress that prompted it. Funny, how some folks feel completely comfortable asking dressed-up people questions that they'd never dream of posing to someone they met on the street. Drea On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > So, why in the world did she ask that question? the red dress thing > again? > > Ah, the tactless denizens of the reenacting world... it's hard to know > whether to smack them as they so richly deserve, or, as you say, just > laugh! > > - Mara > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > > > Almost as funny as being there...Dan and I were promenading around the new > > boston faire, Dan in her exceedingly proper gloves, bonnet, etc., when > > some lady wandered up and blithely asked her, "So, are you a tart?" > > > > I wish I'd had a camera so I could have captured the "so, do I answer > > politely, laugh in her face, or kick this wench's ass" look that appeared > > on Danielle's face. ;) > > > > Drea > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 13:04:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18351 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:04:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFI63Yb029889; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFI618p016641; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFI5e8p016438 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-95-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.95.44] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Ckqa-0000jl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:05:40 +0000 Message-ID: <004001c28cd2$1ebfc3e0$2c5f22d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021115092001.J38232-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:09:20 -0000 Status: RO Drea wrote: > Almost as funny as being there...Dan and I were promenading around the new > boston faire, Dan in her exceedingly proper gloves, bonnet, etc., when > some lady wandered up and blithely asked her, "So, are you a tart?" The mind boggles; if Danielle 'a la perfect demure damsel' could provoke that enquiry, what on earth the lady would have said to Teddy, in Custard Tart mode? Probably better not to think about it... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 13:07:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18366 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:07:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFI91Yb000352; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFI908p018193; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAFI7x8p017638 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWq1Bmbp78oahGLOC3GOhmFrDRjxOXKQd3A=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHN4744A; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:07:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Ball is Complete Message-ID: <20021115.130451.-154569.4.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:35:55 -0500 Status: RO What a lot of work you went to to put this together. It was wonderful and the costumes were great fun. I must try to get a picture of one of mine for next year. Thanks for great site. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 13:59:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18938 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:59:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFJ07Yb005494; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFJ01v8015236; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFIxdv8015031 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:59:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be6d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.109]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C6424801E7 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:59:37 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001c01c28cd9$6cc50bc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021115025747.85236.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:01:37 +0100 Status: RO Dear Bella. I was so lucky to be allowed to examine some early 18th century stays. They were heavyly boned troughout with whalebones. The stayes weighed a ton, this i was very surprised of and very hard to touch also. I think the same weight is obtained with steel boning. As i understand the real whalebone could be steamed and shaped. When cold again it kept the shape. This is not something you can do with the artificial plastic boning The front peaces of these stays, was shaped and the busk was narrowed by making the linning smaller than the outside, It was impossible to flatten the front pieces, and it made my work of figuring out how they were cut, impossible. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bella" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:57 AM Subject: [h-cost] Whalebone > I was wondering if there's someone who can help me > with a question that's been running around in my head > (apologies to anyone who sees this more than once). > > What were the properties of "whalebone"? Was it supple > or hard, or did it vary from supple when freshly > harvested to hard when dry? I've seen a type of > plastic boning that is referred to as artificial > whalebone, and am wondering how accurate this is. > Janet Arnold mentions the possibility of whalebone in > some of her articles and refers to it as extremely > hard..... > > > > Bella > > > http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers > - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 14:18:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19097 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:18:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFJK2Yb007253; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFJK0iR025599; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f67.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFJJhiR025393 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:19:37 -0800 Received: from 217.45.69.32 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:19:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [217.45.69.32] From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2002 19:19:37.0984 (UTC) FILETIME=[F076D000:01C28CDB] Subject: [h-cost] Antique clothing websites Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:19:37 +0000 Status: RO Okay, if you like that website, you HAVE to look at these: www.antique-fashion.com www.antiquedress.com www.vintagetextile.com Karen Augusta's site (the first of the links above) has some particularly spectacular things for the Victorian-obsessive (check out the museum archives for stuff sold in the past) Kate > >Message: 2 >From: "Stevie Gamble" >To: >Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:32:34 -0000 >Subject: [h-cost] rare and unusual costumes and textiles 17th-mid20th >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > >Hi all, > >http://www.meg-andrews.com/index.htm > >Some achingly beautiful pieces here, with achingly horrendous prices, >but it's really worth a look:-) > >best wishes >Stevie > > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 14:32:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19166 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:32:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFJY2Yb008584; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFJY1iR002703; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAFJXmiR002559 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:33:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27750 invoked by uid 1005); 15 Nov 2002 19:33:40 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.140133 secs); 15 Nov 2002 19:33:40 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.140133 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 19:33:40 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone In-Reply-To: <001c01c28cd9$6cc50bc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: <20021115143156.Q38232-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:33:44 -0500 (EST) Status: RO > As i understand the real whalebone could be steamed and shaped. When cold > again it kept the shape. > This is not something you can do with the artificial plastic boning Actually, given a hot iron and some linen, one can. I wanted to create some 18th c. stays with the curved boning across the front bust, and so I took some artificial whalebone, set it between two pieces of linen, put my iron on the hottest setting, and pressed down while pulling the a.w.to one side. It took a while but produced a very nice curve. Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 16:06:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19688 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFL5AYb015976; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:05:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFL51iR017913; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFL44iR017416 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gAFL43XK008427 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:04:04 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone In-Reply-To: <20021115025747.85236.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:04:03 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Hi, Bella, I had the good fortune to go to a workshop given by the staymaker/tailor at Colonial Williamsburg, who had along with him some real whalebone, of recent origin so that it wasn't old and brittle. The stuff is stiff and somewhat flexible, though not so flexible that it wouldn't break under great pressure. I think the plastic boning is a good substitute, but women with any sort of bust will need a busk (wooden stiffening piece) in the front of their stays for additional shaping. Cheers, Mara On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-1] Bella wrote: > What were the properties of "whalebone"? Was it supple > or hard, or did it vary from supple when freshly > harvested to hard when dry? I've seen a type of > plastic boning that is referred to as artificial > whalebone, and am wondering how accurate this is. > Janet Arnold mentions the possibility of whalebone in > some of her articles and refers to it as extremely > hard..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 16:29:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19793 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:29:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFLU2Yb018049; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFLU1iR001164; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFLTbiR000953 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:29:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A74057AF004E; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:29:36 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A74034CD0104; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:29:36 -0600 Message-ID: <003201c28cee$160c38c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20021115.130451.-154569.4.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Ball is Complete X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:29:30 -0500 Status: RO Thank you Lalah! The Ball is one of the most pleasurable parts of my job. It is like opening a Christmas package every time someone sends me an entry. I love all kinds of costume and it is so much fun to see what people have made. It is an honor to provide a place to let people shine in the light and show off their talents. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 17:14:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19949 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:14:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFMF4Yb021973; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFMF2iR024939; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFMEpiR024823 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:14:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-95-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.95.44] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Coji-0006Nk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:14:50 +0000 Message-ID: <007b01c28cf4$edcf7460$2c5f22d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique clothing websites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:18:30 -0000 Status: RO Kate wrote: > Okay, if you like that website, you HAVE to look at these: > > www.antique-fashion.com > www.antiquedress.com > www.vintagetextile.com > > Karen Augusta's site (the first of the links above) has some particularly > spectacular things for the Victorian-obsessive (check out the museum > archives for stuff sold in the past) Many thanks; I'd come across Karen's site before but the other two are new to me. The last one pleased me least, since I can't save the large pictures; if these really are important textiles then it's not unreasonable to expect to be able to study them in depth. But given all the stuff on the site about vintage clothing as an investment it's probably not something the proprietor worries about. Begin Rant here: Also, the article purporting to explain real interest rates verges on the disingenuous. Until I retired in order to spend more time with my doctors, I was a Specialist Technical Advisor to the Board of Inland Revenue, dealing with Financial Institutions and Financial Instruments, of which interest is the most well known. And the stuff on interest is oversimplified to the point of being misleading. End Rant You'll probably have guessed by now that even if I had the dosh I wouldn't buy from that business:-) Many thanks for the websites (yes, all of them) there are some beautiful things to delight the eye, the heart and the mind. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 18:42:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20377 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:42:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFNi5Yb029507; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFNi1iM006380; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFNhjiM006229 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:43:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip234.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.234]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gAFNhdY12880 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:43:39 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone Message-ID: <3DD515C4.12735.F7B5E64@localhost> Priority: normal References: <20021115025747.85236.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:41:56 -0800 Status: RO > I had the good fortune to go to a workshop given by the > staymaker/tailor at Colonial Williamsburg, who had along with him some > real whalebone, of recent origin so that it wasn't old and brittle. > > The stuff is stiff and somewhat flexible, though not so flexible that > it wouldn't break under great pressure. I think the plastic boning is > a good substitute, but women with any sort of bust will need a busk > (wooden stiffening piece) in the front of their stays for additional > shaping. I have a piece given to me at Williamsburg because it was an offcut too short for use. It is quite firm and flexible. It acts very much like a 1/4" steel stay (but not as rigid as one of the 1/2" stays.) The ones that I've seen there and in extant corsets seem to be 1/4" or thereabouts. If they are stayed, they seem to use them packed so that there is not a stay's width between them or they have large areas (like most of the back) with no stay at all in between. I haven't seen any of the special plastic boning that I've heard about. However, other plastic boning that you find in fabric stores is *nothing* like whalebone and it is too heat plastic to hold up well in a set of stays. I would like to try reeds but I've found that bamboo type reeds (which were recommended to me) didn't work worth diddlysquat. Until I get a better sort of reed, I'll stick to two layers of rigeline per boning case when I want to get that reed effect. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 18:45:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20386 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:45:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFNl1Yb029687; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFNl1iM007541; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAFNkEiM007271 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:46:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id gAFNkEa240954 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:46:14 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Whalebone and substitutes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:46:14 -0600 (CST) Status: RO I had an idea regarding whalebone, its properties, and our general inability to get it for costuming. In elementary school, we learned that whalebone is baleen, which isn't bone and isn't tooth, but is made of the same stuff as our hair and fingernails. More or less the same thing is said about horn. Do you, the knowledgable folk of h-cost, think that cow horn might work as a substitute for whalebone when cut to the same dimensions? Or am I misremembering or just completely off? I have never handled real whalebone and haven't worked with either horn or the plastic artificial whalebone, but I thought there might be the chance that someone here might have. emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 19:45:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20565 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:45:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG0l6Yb004029; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:47:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG0l1iM000757; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG0kuiM000730 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-250-113.s367.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.250.113] helo=rcn.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18Cr6t-0005O4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:46:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3DD59587.1A8892BC@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20021115144201.11213.52549.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Question about tablet weaving. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:47:03 -0500 Status: RO On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I've spent part of the evening puzzling over the sleeve bits in the MoL > book on textiles, with the aim of picking up some authentic details for > a fitted gown I want to make for myself. There are several mentions of > edgings on things that turn out to be narrow tablet-woven bands, woven > directly onto the raw edge of the sleeve (in the diagram of this in the > book, it looks as if you're simultaneously weaving the edging, and > sewing it into place...with one of the weaving threads, maybe?) I've got > enough cards to do it (from a workshop), and figured I'd probably do it > in silk thread, once I learn it well enough, but what I don't have, is > instructions. argh! > Having managed to thoroughly misplace my only book on tablet/card > weaving, I did some poking on the internet (which I'll explore more this > weekend), but so far I'm not seeing anything like this--folks are > usually talking about belts, or bigger braids. > Any help--recommended how-to books, articles, websites would be very > much appreciated! > --sue I have card-woven. I recommend that you do at least one other project before you card-weaving finishing onto a sleeve. Just getting used to changing the shed by turning cards, using tension, putting the weft through, is enough to deal with for your first time. If you use about ten cards and thread the weight of ordinary crochet cotton (use what fiber you will, of course, but cotton's easy and cheap for your first try), you will get something from 1/2 to 1 inch wide; a couple of feet of which may be used for garters, and longer pieces are useful all over the place. I went a bit mad my second or third piece, and made 4-5 meters of strapping, which I still use, at least 10 years later. The other thing that you will learn, is the nominclature. You may also wish to do a second project, using very few cards, with threads alternating their threading direction (s,z,s,z). Put the weft through from one side (hold the end so it doesn't just pull through). Pass the weft bundle or shuttle under the weaving. Change the shed. Enter from the first side of weaving again. So, if you enter from the left side, keep entering from the left side. Also keep turning the card bundle in the same direction until the twist builds up so badly you cannot turn the cards any more, and only then start "unturning" your card bundle (really just turning in the opposite direction). This very narrow tubular cord can be used to lace your finished garment with, and, at the same time, is very like the card-woven finish/trim, so you will have gained useful experience in how to handle the materials. For the actual trim/finish, use 2-6 cards, threaded s,z,s,z,s,z, in a color to match your cloth. Attach your weft (on a needle) to your garment where you want the finish. * Put the needle through the shed. Put the needle up through the cloth (go underneath the weft of your card weaving). Change the shed. Repeat from *. The turning pattern on the MOL example is shown as all in one direction. Pick a direction, where the card pack's front corner is moving away from you, for example, and keep turning it in that direction. Two of the examples with any cardweaving attached to a cuff have only two tablets, and one four tablets, as in their sketch (fig. 134). Books to learn card weaving from: Techniques of Tabletweaving by Peter Collingwood (recently back in print), and Card Weaving by Candace Crocket (ditto, by Interweave Press). There are other books out there, too. Try your local library system. Please ask more specific questions when you get them, and I'll try my best to answer them (or someone else on this list will know). Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 19:54:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20578 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:54:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG0q0Yb004305; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG0q0iM002269; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG0pmiM002222 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from p921-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.159] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18CrBZ-0004jJ-00; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:51:45 +1300 Message-ID: <007101c28d0a$5824c7b0$9fc3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20021115025747.85236.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:51:47 +1300 Status: RO > What were the properties of "whalebone"? Was it supple > or hard, or did it vary from supple when freshly > harvested to hard when dry? I've seen a type of > plastic boning that is referred to as artificial > whalebone, and am wondering how accurate this is. > Janet Arnold mentions the possibility of whalebone in > some of her articles and refers to it as extremely > hard..... It might well have been extremely hard taking into account the age of the stuff. http://www.marquise.de/en/1900/howto/odds.shtml (And for the person who mentioned horn, it's discussed a little here too) She played with some whalebone and came to the conclusion that imitation whalebone is an excellent substitute. And yes it is different to some of the usual stuff you can buy as boning. I finally got my hands on some good quality plastic boning, it's white only slightly opaque and while it feels soft when you have several meters of it in hand, once cut it does feel more sturdy:) Yes, when used in a victorian type corset which follows the curves of the body it *does* hold the shape. But frankly looking at a number of antique corsets this is what happened with whalebone. And is mentioned in the page above. You can easily straighten it again by ironing it. But as it happened 'in period' you shouldn't fret too much. And besides, I've seen the insides of some 1950s couture gowns that used spiral boning with the exact same effect. Firm shaping and body heat is going to do that. However I would warn people to avoid "Polyboning", whatever the manufacturer is. I think they also make rigiline. It is very soft and will not just form to your shape but will make bumps and stay in those shapes. Again this was for a victorian style bodice so you might have some success with a more conical shorter corset/bodice. Just as rigiline can be used for these shapes with success, I have used in in double layers zigzagged together and it's doing pretty well in an hourglass shape even:). And as Drea said you can curve it using heat and patience, making sure you protect the plastic from the metal plate of the iron. I sometimes iron it just between two layers of cotton, or in the boning channels themselves. While working on Jack of All Trades we were corseted to the eyeballs, and it was all white imitation whalebone. We'd be in the things (3rd quarter 18thC style corsets) for up to 15hrs in the blazing sun under lights and in heavy costumes (fortunately mostly natural fibres). The only things that were overheating were the wigs and stockings, which weren't made of natural fibres. The plastic boning in the corsets didn't worry us at all. And they were solidly boned. Almost fully boned with only a few gaps which were at the back and sewn in zigzags. Well they were almost directly patterned from Nora Waugh's Corsets & Crinolines;) michaela http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 21:36:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21006 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:36:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG2c3Yb009295; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG2c1iM029829; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG2bliM029737 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:37:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip58.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.58]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gAG2bgY29164 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:37:42 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone and substitutes Message-ID: <3DD53E95.15838.101AD1C1@localhost> Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:36:05 -0800 Status: RO Emma wrote: > Do you, the knowledgable folk of h-cost, think that cow horn might > work as a substitute for whalebone when cut to the same dimensions? > Or am I misremembering or just completely off? I don't think it would work for several reasons: 1. Cow horn (at least the ones I've felt and worked, or watched being worked) tends to be more brittle than the whalebone I have felt. Ie. more sudden failure with sharp edges. 2. Whalebone has a structure of long fibres which lends itself well to long pieces which cown horn does not have. (This also aids in fewer sudden failures with sharp edges, but also in the way it is workable.) 3. Cow horns don't always have the long straight sections which whalebone has. The edge is also quite thin at the opening compared to the tip which means that you also have to work it more in terms of getting the thickness even. Cow bone would work as a replacement for whalebone in thicker pieces such as busks, and was occasionally used for such. But wood works better and comes more often in lengths which work better too. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 15 21:58:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21087 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:58:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG302Yb010342; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG301iM005211; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAG2x8iM004979 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 56428 invoked by uid 1005); 16 Nov 2002 02:58:54 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.070658 secs); 16 Nov 2002 02:58:54 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.070658 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 02:58:54 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone and substitutes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021115215656.J52133-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:59:02 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I have seen one quote regarding (16th c. ) corsets being boned with horn: I will have a fine smock of silk ... [and] a French bodie, not of whalebone, for that is not stiff enough but of horne for that will hold it out, it shall come, to keep in my belly ... This hints that, although horn could concievably be used as a boning material, that it was considered rather extreme compared to whalebone. I've never seen horn mentioned in any inventories or tailors accounts as a stiffening material. As a busk, however, horn was more commonly used. Good luck and let us know how it goes, Drea On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > I had an idea regarding whalebone, its properties, and our general > inability to get it for costuming. > > In elementary school, we learned that whalebone is baleen, which isn't > bone and isn't tooth, but is made of the same stuff as our hair and > fingernails. More or less the same thing is said about horn. > > Do you, the knowledgable folk of h-cost, think that cow horn might work as > a substitute for whalebone when cut to the same dimensions? Or am I > misremembering or just completely off? > > I have never handled real whalebone and haven't worked with either horn > or the plastic artificial whalebone, but I thought there might be the > chance that someone here might have. > > emma > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 00:12:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21478 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:12:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG5E7Yb017177; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:14:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG5E1iM007164; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG5D3iM006981 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil2247.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.247]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG5CwAP025904 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:12:59 -0500 Message-ID: <3DD5D58A.4D351DA7@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone and substitutes References: <20021115215656.J52133-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:20:11 -0500 Status: RO Hi, All. I just happen to be working with horn at this time, so I can make some comment on it's properties. I have not handled whalebone in a few years, and none made exclusively for the use of stays, so I will limit my comments to what I know about horn. Horn is pliable when heated, and can be formed. It is, as someone mentioned, a cuticle product like hair or nails, and has layers which need to be taken into consideration when cutting or forming it. If the horn is twisted, as happens with longer pieces, it has to be cut carefully or the resulting pieces will be curved on a few different planes. Shorter lengths, while more straight, would probably not be useful in stays. IIRC, it is not as fibrous as whalebone. It would be then, in my opinion, an inferior, although useable, product as compared to whalebone. It would take a more careful culling of horns to get a good stock of straight, long pieces than would probably be worth the effort if other, better materials such as whalebone and willow were available. Mike T. Drea Leed wrote: > I have seen one quote regarding (16th c. ) corsets being boned with horn: > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 01:23:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21646 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:23:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG6P4Yb019614; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG6P1iM021808; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAG6OCiM021593 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:24:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13381 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:31:22 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about tablet weaving... In-Reply-To: <3DD509E2.60897C23@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:31:22 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: > What other treatments have you seen? It'd be good to have a backup plan > in case this edging falls through..... I think it's the MOL book that describes edges with the usual turn-under-and-stitch finish. I can't recall -- I remember I went through a lot of books at one point just to get a sense of the variety of options. There seemed to be plenty. Another example worth looking at would by the Charles de Blois garment, which is the same period and has buttoned lower sleeves. Perhaps one of the books that discusses this -- Payne or Newton for starters -- describes the finishing. I'm absolutely swamped right now or I'd hunt it up for you myself -- I'm just trying to tear through the stacked-up email. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 06:03:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10713 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:03:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGB53Yb028233; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGB50ZY013354; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGB4gZY013306 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:04:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.211]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 027F0480904 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:04:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <009701c28d60$431176b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <003301c28ccb$4f3f6680$2c5f22d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] MANCHU WOMAN'S FUCHSIA JACKET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:06:49 +0100 Status: RO Dear Stevie. Thankyou for that, drooling down my t-shirt, got to change that............. Bjarne www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: [h-cost] MANCHU WOMAN'S FUCHSIA JACKET > Hi all, > > One for the embroiderers from the Meg Andrews web-sitesite I > recommended: > > http://www.meg-andrews.com/oriental/courtrobes/items/5437_D.htm > > and, in much bigger closeup: > > http://www.meg-andrews.com/oriental/courtrobes/items/5437b_D.htm > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 06:06:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10722 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:06:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGB80Yb028295; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGB80ZY013939; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGB74ZY013708 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.211]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 11134480714 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:07:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <009f01c28d60$98bd8810$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021115143156.Q38232-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:09:13 +0100 Status: RO Dear Drea. Whauw, thanks for that tip, i really must try that. Thanks a lot Drea Bjarne www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone > > As i understand the real whalebone could be steamed and shaped. When cold > > again it kept the shape. > > This is not something you can do with the artificial plastic boning > > Actually, given a hot iron and some linen, one can. I wanted to create > some 18th c. stays with the curved boning across the front bust, and so I > took some artificial whalebone, set it between two pieces of linen, put my > iron on the hottest setting, and pressed down while pulling the a.w.to one > side. It took a while but produced a very nice curve. > > Drea > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 06:10:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10737 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:10:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGBC1Yb028385; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGBC0ZY017159; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGBBbZY017092 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.211]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 816014801E2 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:11:36 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <00a901c28d61$3c0c2c10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Whalebone and substitutes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:13:47 +0100 Status: RO Hi The problem with kow horns is they are not long enough When you are making a pair of stays, they should be as long as the bodice. There are some stomachers here in Denmark wich have wood "bones" Wood would be something you could use as a substitute Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emma Elizabeth Lehman" <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 12:46 AM Subject: [h-cost] Whalebone and substitutes > > I had an idea regarding whalebone, its properties, and our general > inability to get it for costuming. > > In elementary school, we learned that whalebone is baleen, which isn't > bone and isn't tooth, but is made of the same stuff as our hair and > fingernails. More or less the same thing is said about horn. > > Do you, the knowledgable folk of h-cost, think that cow horn might work as > a substitute for whalebone when cut to the same dimensions? Or am I > misremembering or just completely off? > > I have never handled real whalebone and haven't worked with either horn > or the plastic artificial whalebone, but I thought there might be the > chance that someone here might have. > > emma > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 08:22:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11345 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:22:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGDO5Yb002464; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGDO0ZY010627; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGDNYZY010536 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:23:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.211]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0AB0426341E for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:23:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001901c28d73$ab5205b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique clothing websites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:25:45 +0100 Status: RO I browsed those websites with vintage clothing you posted. Notice this beautifull stomacher: http://www.vintagetextile.com/Earlyall.htm It is incredible they still sell such old items. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Cole" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 8:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] Antique clothing websites > Okay, if you like that website, you HAVE to look at these: > > www.antique-fashion.com > www.antiquedress.com > www.vintagetextile.com > > Karen Augusta's site (the first of the links above) has some particularly > spectacular things for the Victorian-obsessive (check out the museum > archives for stuff sold in the past) > > Kate > > > > > >Message: 2 > >From: "Stevie Gamble" > >To: > >Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:32:34 -0000 > >Subject: [h-cost] rare and unusual costumes and textiles 17th-mid20th > >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > >Hi all, > > > >http://www.meg-andrews.com/index.htm > > > >Some achingly beautiful pieces here, with achingly horrendous prices, > >but it's really worth a look:-) > > > >best wishes > >Stevie > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 09:01:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11464 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:01:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGE31Yb003693; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGE30ZY017767; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGE2AZY017636 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:02:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.211]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id ACCE7262F86 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:02:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003301c28d79$12e6f3c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] period patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:04:26 +0100 Status: RO I just had the news that Castle Rosenborg in Copenhagen is having an exhibition starting in february next year. It is about Louise Augusta, the illegitimate child of Struensee and Queen Caroline Mathilde. You have probably all seen her portrait, it is often seen in costume books. She is wearing a Robe a la Reinne, with pink silk ribbon scarf and a green fan, she is painted by Jens Juel. She lived in the end of 18th century and well into the next century. The exhibition is inspired from a new novel called "The love child" - Kærlighedsbarnet The exhibition will have items owned by her, and other royal items, including dresses. Pattern drafts of the clothes is included in the museum catalog. One spectacular dress is a beautifull ball dress. Her brother the king braught it back from the Wiener Convention. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 09:29:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11525 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:29:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGEU4Yb004653; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGEU1ZY022609; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGETsZY022572 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-24-177.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.24.177] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18D3xK-00028V-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:29:54 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c28d7d$25a20a00$b11823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <003301c28d79$12e6f3c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:33:31 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne wrote: ---------------------------- I just had the news that Castle Rosenborg in Copenhagen is having an exhibition starting in february next year. It is about Louise Augusta, the illegitimate child of Struensee and Queen Caroline Mathilde. You have probably all seen her portrait, it is often seen in costume books. She is wearing a Robe a la Reinne, with pink silk ribbon scarf and a green fan, she is painted by Jens Juel. ------------------------------------------ I can't track down a copy of that portrait on the Net; do you know if there is one anywhere? ------------------------------------------ The exhibition will have items owned by her, and other royal items, including dresses. Pattern drafts of the clothes is included in the museum catalog. One spectacular dress is a beautifull ball dress. Her brother the king braught it back from the Wiener Convention. -------------------- It sounds absolutely gorgeous! best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 09:40:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11578 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:40:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGEg3Yb005089; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGEg1ZY024859; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGEfAZY024702 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:41:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-78.gti.net [208.216.115.78]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 778A636106 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:41:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3DD65908.33560976@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns References: <003301c28d79$12e6f3c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:41:12 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne, Is /will there be a web site for this exhibit? Or a catalog? ***Deb R > I just had the news that Castle Rosenborg in Copenhagen is having an > exhibition starting in february next year. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 09:48:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11602 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:48:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGEo1Yb005279; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGEo0ZY026469; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGEnBZY026235 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:49:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-24-177.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.24.177] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18D4Fy-00045o-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:49:10 +0000 Message-ID: <002401c28d7f$d69be860$b11823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <003301c28ccb$4f3f6680$2c5f22d9@dan> <009701c28d60$431176b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] MANCHU WOMAN'S FUCHSIA JACKET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:52:51 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > Thankyou for that, drooling down my t-shirt, got to change that............. You're welcome:-) You may get your revenge, however. According to Meg Andrews website she is exhibiting at the London Textiles, Vintage Fashion & Accessories Fair Hammersmith Town Hall King Street London W6 tomorrow. If I do go over there I'll take large numbers of handkerchiefs with me... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 10:02:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11666 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:02:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGF42Yb005837; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGF41ZY029268; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGF3YZY029160 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:03:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-24-177.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.24.177] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18D4Tt-0006BG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:03:33 +0000 Message-ID: <002e01c28d81$d95948c0$b11823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] 18th century lace cap back Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:07:15 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, Well, I am now the proud owner of a 'lovely late 18th Century cap back ' http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=920034761&rd=1 for my costume for the Georgian Ball at Bath next spring. Gulp. I have found a reference to lace cap backs at the Honiton lace museum, but it doesn't tell me anything about cap fronts. Or, indeed, whether there were any fronts. Help! best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 10:24:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11729 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:24:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGFQ2Yb006711; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGFQ0ZY003942; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGFPTZY003833 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:25:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-24-177.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.24.177] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18D4p6-000260-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:25:28 +0000 Message-ID: <003601c28d84$e91a2740$b11823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] ANTIQUE LACE-CIRCA 1760,BRUSSELS LACE Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:29:10 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, Another for the lace experts: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=922148372 I'm puzzled as to how anything that delicate could survive for centuries:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 10:49:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11790 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:49:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGFp2Yb007786; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGFp1ZY009237; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from x11.quik.com (x11.quik.com [216.176.28.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGFo0ZY009013 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from downstairs (ip68-10-170-42.hr.hr.cox.net [68.10.170.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by x11.quik.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAGFnxn2002614 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:49:59 -0800 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Antique clothing websites Message-ID: <000401c28d88$3d2b1ee0$0200a8c0@hr.cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <001901c28d73$ab5205b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:52:59 -0500 Status: RO That stomacher is truly gorgeous. Does anyone know if the embroidery was done on the silk before the linen backing was put on? Or was the linen backing attached first to stabilize the embroidery. Thanks, Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 8:26 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique clothing websites I browsed those websites with vintage clothing you posted. Notice this beautifull stomacher: http://www.vintagetextile.com/Earlyall.htm It is incredible they still sell such old items. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 14:11:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12615 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:11:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGJC3Yb016969; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGJC1QD000732; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lutetium (lutetium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGJBcQD000660 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:11:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-24-177.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.24.177] helo=dan) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18D8Lx-0005zT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:11:38 +0000 Message-ID: <004401c28da4$80c45a60$b11823d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Huge scans of jewellery, armour, textiles etc Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:15:18 -0000 Status: RO Hi, I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but there are huge scans of jewellery, armour, textiles and a lot of other things at: http://rubens.anu.edu.au/ which is the website of Australian National University's database 'ArtServe: Art & Architecture mainly from the Mediterranean Basin and Japan' There aren't a lot of textiles yet, but this one is unbelievably spectacular... http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raider4/europe.0602/germany/aschaffenburg/sch loss_johannisburg/museum/textiles/IMGP1701.JPG and http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raider4/europe.0602/germany/aschaffenburg/sch loss_johannisburg/museum/textiles/IMGP1702.JPG and from France: http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1cdroms/france/tonnerre/hospital/museum/t extiles/6568.JPG and http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1cdroms/france/tonnerre/hospital/museum/t extiles/6598.JPG though I was pleased to see that I'm not the only person in the world to manage to photograph a finger:-) Actually they are all unbelievably spectacular; it is really difficult to get pictures in such detail that, for example, you can see all of the different threads and stitches used. It's a treasure trove:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 14:30:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12687 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:30:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGJW1Yb017878; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGJW0QD005559; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.kc.rr.com (fe1.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGJVBQD005388 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:31:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.101.55]) by mail1.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:26:44 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021116133156.00a17b30@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2002 "Stuck at the Prom" contest winners In-Reply-To: <20021114053245.E19512@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:33:23 -0600 Status: RO Oh my gosh!! 36 pages of really GOOD outfits of colored duct tape! I called my husband in to see them. The competition sure got tough this year. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 05:32 AM 11/14/02 -0700, you wrote: >Duck Brand duct tape has posted the entries and winners for its 2002 >contest. All entries must be made from duct tape, and there are some >really lovely historical, ethnic, and fantasy entries. > >The winners this year made Tudor. > >Start at http://www.ducktapeclub.com/prom/ and continue with the '2002 >Entries' link. > > ...eliz > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 16:02:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13023 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:02:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGKw1Yb021590; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGKw0QD025116; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail4.kc.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGKv1QD024869 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.101.55]) by mail4.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:52:45 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021116145845.00a04ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Huge scans of jewellery, armour, textiles etc In-Reply-To: <004401c28da4$80c45a60$b11823d9@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:59:09 -0600 Status: RO Thank you, you wonderful person! Sheryl Nance-Durst At 07:15 PM 11/16/02 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, > >I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but there are huge scans >of jewellery, armour, textiles and a lot of other things at: > >http://rubens.anu.edu.au/ > >best wishes >Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 16:04:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13028 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:04:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGL51Yb021966; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGL50QD026698; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAGL4uQD026649 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:04:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWsrKq1/UysCqK11xHKVc49g/U7r1bpMPSQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHRZQXPC; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:04:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021116.155825.-264597.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-10 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Subject: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:58:25 -0500 Status: RO I have been wanting to make the gown pictured at http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/costume/pemberton/blackmary.jpg and decided to do some research. Janet Arnold in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked says that the gown is topped with a partlet. Ashleford says that it is one piece. I tend to go along with Arnold because she really is an Elizabethan authority and because the picture appears to have a silk gown with some trim at the top covered by a velvet partlet. Any observations from anyone who might have seen a better picture (or the original) would be appreciated. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 16:43:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13228 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:43:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGLi2Yb023611; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGLi0QD005412; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGLh2QD005217 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp200.directcon.net [206.170.184.200]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gAGLgshh027075; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:42:55 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021116134706.00bb46f0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown In-Reply-To: <20021116.155825.-264597.1.catpurson@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:47:06 -0800 Status: RO At 03:58 PM 11/16/2002 -0500, Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > I have been wanting to make the gown pictured at >http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/costume/pemberton/blackmary.jpg and >decided to do some research. Janet Arnold in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe >Unlocked says that the gown is topped with a partlet. Ashleford says >that it is one piece. I'd say it's a partlet. Look at the way the velvet part is extended beyond her left shoulder, a one piece gown wouldn't do that. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 16:49:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13236 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:49:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGLo2Yb023886; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGLo1QD006758; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGLnNQD006625 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:49:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp200.directcon.net [206.170.184.200]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gAGLnFhh027955; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:49:16 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021116135328.00bb2ec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, "H-Costume" From: Margo Anderson Subject: [h-cost] Photographing Costumes In-Reply-To: <001401c28bb0$bd1c7920$0100a8c0@gateway> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:53:28 -0800 Status: RO My husband, Wayne, has written an article on costume photography, covering everything from choosing digital or film cameras, lighting, modeling, postproduction work, and much more. You can see it at www.margospatterns.com. Enjoy! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 17:13:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13352 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:13:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGMC1Yb024653; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGMC0QD011098; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGMBMQD010967 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-23-225.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.23.225] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18DB9t-0007CY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:11:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c28dbd$9c35c4a0$e11724d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021116.155825.-264597.1.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:15:01 -0000 Status: RO Lalah wrote: > I have been wanting to make the gown pictured at > http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/costume/pemberton/blackmary.jpg and > decided to do some research. Janet Arnold in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe > Unlocked says that the gown is topped with a partlet. Ashleford says > that it is one piece. I tend to go along with Arnold because she really > is an Elizabethan authority and because the picture appears to have a > silk gown with some trim at the top covered by a velvet partlet. Any > observations from anyone who might have seen a better picture (or the > original) would be appreciated. You have clearly got magnificent taste; it's a truly lovely gown, but I'm not familiar with this portrait, beyond the 'rings faint bells' level, and I can't find an attribution as to where it is or who it's by. Can you tell me which museum/gallery is it in? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 17:57:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13561 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:57:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGMx7Yb026626; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:59:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGMx1QD020894; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAGMwxQD020883 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:58:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id ADB248B801B4; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:58:58 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ADB2189A0146; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:58:58 -0600 Message-ID: <002c01c28dc3$bd0bc700$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" References: <200211171020.gAHAKaG25141@www.casino-fun.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: Notification of PayPal Limited Account Access Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:58:52 -0500 Status: RO Please note that this fraud notice/email is going out via email. Ignore it. I don't even have an active paypal account with the address it was sent to. Look below. Penny Ladnier ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Permission" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 5:20 AM Subject: Notification of PayPal Limited Account Access > > Dear, > > PayPal is constantly working to ensure security by regularly > screening the accounts in our system. We recently reviewed > your account, and we need more information to help us provide > you with secure service. Until we can collect this information, > your access to sensitive account features will be limited. We > apologize for the inconvenience, and we would like to restore > your access as soon as possible. > > For more information about the status of your account and for > instructions on how to restore full use of your account, > please log in using the link below: > > http://www.paypal-ebay.com > > We encourage you to log in and restore full access as soon as > possible. Should access to your account remain limited for an > extended period of time, it may result in further limitations > on the use of your account or may result in eventual account > closure. > > Your Case ID number is: PP-005-177-867 > > Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. > > Sincerely, > > PayPal Account Review Team > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address > cannot be answered. For assistance, please visit the link below. > All of the information necessary to restore your account access is > available at: > > http://www.paypal-ebay.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 19:47:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14042 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:47:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH0m2Yb000866; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH0m0QD013768; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80109.mail.yahoo.com (web80109.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAH0lBQD013591 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:47:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021117004711.74131.qmail@web80109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.58.232.204] by web80109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:47:11 PST From: HEATHER CUTLER Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021114183547.77643.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-791345583-1037494031=:73871" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:47:11 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-791345583-1037494031=:73871 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have to second what Nicole said. If I was even close to those measurements, I'd jump on it. Good Luck! Moira Lovely gown, great cat indeed, and oh my, if I had those measurements I would bid on it. Nicole --0-791345583-1037494031=:73871 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I have to second what Nicole said.  If I was even close to those measurements, I'd jump on it.  Good Luck!

Moira

 
Lovely gown, great cat indeed, and oh my, if I had those measurements I would
bid on it.

Nicole

--0-791345583-1037494031=:73871-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 20:10:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14099 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:10:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH1C3Yb001925; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH1C1QD018908; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80103.mail.yahoo.com (web80103.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAH1B0QD018741 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:11:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021117011100.56475.qmail@web80103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.58.232.204] by web80103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:11:00 PST From: HEATHER CUTLER Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ren Gown on E-bay To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021115.121727.-154569.1.catpurson@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1938094473-1037495460=:56288" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:11:00 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-1938094473-1037495460=:56288 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Exactly, Lalah. ;-D Of course, nobody would be likely to recognize me, either.;-) A number of people don't even recognize at first now that I'm out of the wheelchair.;-) Moira If I had those measurements I would be doing a happy dance in all kinds of beautiful, fitted gowns. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender --0-1938094473-1037495460=:56288 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Exactly, Lalah. ;-D  Of course, nobody would be likely to recognize me, either.;-)  A number of people don't even recognize at first now that I'm out of the wheelchair.;-)

Moira


If I had those measurements I would be doing a happy dance in all
kinds of beautiful, fitted gowns.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender

--0-1938094473-1037495460=:56288-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 20:16:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14129 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:16:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH1I2Yb002220; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH1I1QD019999; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80101.mail.yahoo.com (web80101.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAH1HqQD019968 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:17:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021117011752.29156.qmail@web80101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.58.232.204] by web80101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:17:52 PST From: HEATHER CUTLER Subject: Re: [h-cost] "No Madam, I am NOT a tart!" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1483957578-1037495872=:29127" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:17:52 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-1483957578-1037495872=:29127 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wouldn't that imply that Queen Elizabeth I would have been a tart as a young woman? MoiraSo, why in the world did she ask that question? the red dress thing again? --0-1483957578-1037495872=:29127 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

 

Wouldn't that imply that Queen Elizabeth I would have been a tart as a young woman?

Moira

So, why in the world did she ask that question? the red dress thing
again?
--0-1483957578-1037495872=:29127-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 20:46:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14225 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:46:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH1m2Yb003383; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH1m1QD025818; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH1ltQD025782 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:47:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAH1hddS007520 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:43:40 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:50:12 -0800 Status: RO Charlemagne's crown, or the Crown of Otto I? Which is the herking great thing that you see in all the books with the enamel work? I would ask on the Drachenwald website since the crowns "live" over there. Also, the Kingdom got new crowns in April (used for the first time in June) that are drop dead gorgeous AND hinged. Very easy to carry around and polish as well as period. I have a book from an exhibition that must have taken place sometime in the 30's which brought together all the surviving crowns they could get their hands on, around 140 or so, and pictured them. Most of the medieval ones that were not "grave crowns" were of hinged plaques. Regina -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kala Jathos Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 1:42 AM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Well, I know that the crown was made of seperate panels that are hinged together, so they come apart for cleaning. I don't know if that would help, but it's *definately* easier to work panel by panel than to try and make it all at once, like a hat. (I think you can even see the little hinges in the photo - it looks like a line of tiny beads, but there's actually a little gold pin in there holding the panels together. I saw a picture once of the crown being taken apart for cleaning, but that was in middle school at least, and a good 6 years distant.) -Laura Re: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 09:01:30AM +0000, N Kipar wrote: > http://www.ruppenthal.de/html/bildreichsk.html > I can't think how to achieve the metal panels in any kind of > realistic way. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 16 22:00:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14507 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:00:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH323Yb006440; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH320QD011754; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from axion-it.net (rh3.axion-it.com [209.183.229.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH31oQD011693 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:01:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [65.130.105.44] (account suellen@ccaol.com HELO sue) by axion-it.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0b6) with ESMTP id 5439760 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:01:42 -0500 Message-ID: <001001c28de5$ed08cf80$bc76fea9@stargate.net> From: "Sue" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique clothing websites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:03:23 -0500 Status: RO I have a vintage clothing website also- not nearly so expensive, but then again not anything older than 19th Century. Click on my address below Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave. Frederick, MD 21701 http://www.VictorianMillinery.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Cole" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] Antique clothing websites > Okay, if you like that website, you HAVE to look at these: > > www.antique-fashion.com > www.antiquedress.com > www.vintagetextile.com > > Karen Augusta's site (the first of the links above) has some particularly > spectacular things for the Victorian-obsessive (check out the museum > archives for stuff sold in the past) > > Kate > > > > > >Message: 2 > >From: "Stevie Gamble" > >To: > >Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:32:34 -0000 > >Subject: [h-cost] rare and unusual costumes and textiles 17th-mid20th > >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > >Hi all, > > > >http://www.meg-andrews.com/index.htm > > > >Some achingly beautiful pieces here, with achingly horrendous prices, > >but it's really worth a look:-) > > > >best wishes > >Stevie > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 00:33:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14987 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:33:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH5Z3Yb011592; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH5Z1QD011324; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH5Y3QD011166 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m181.in-tch.com [216.166.191.181]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAH5IRf12681 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:18:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DD72A5C.DE30C77D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown References: <3.0.6.32.20021116134706.00bb46f0@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:34:20 -0700 Status: RO I agree with Margo--definitely a partlet. For one, it's clearly a different fabric than the main fabric of the gown, and off the top of my head, I don't recall any examples of gowns done in two fabrics, with the 2nd fabric starting half way up the chest. --sue Margo Anderson wrote: > > At 03:58 PM 11/16/2002 -0500, Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > > I have been wanting to make the gown pictured at > >http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/costume/pemberton/blackmary.jpg and > >decided to do some research. Janet Arnold in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe > >Unlocked says that the gown is topped with a partlet. Ashleford says > >that it is one piece. > > I'd say it's a partlet. Look at the way the velvet part is extended beyond > her left shoulder, a one piece gown wouldn't do that. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 05:32:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16186 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 05:32:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHAY3Yb020452; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHAY1QD028573; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13309.mail.yahoo.com (web13309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAHAXOQD028464 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:33:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021117103323.42714.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:33:23 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] ANTIQUE LACE-CIRCA 1760,BRUSSELS LACE To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <003601c28d84$e91a2740$b11823d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:33:23 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Hi all, > > Another for the lace experts: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=922148372 I don't think it's Brussels lace. > I'm puzzled as to how anything that delicate could survive for > centuries:-) I have laces that are appr 100 years older than the one in the piccies, they come mainly from this seller. She is very recommendable, all her items are superb. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 05:57:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16246 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 05:57:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHAx2Yb020915; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHAx1QD002443; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHAw7QD002340 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:58:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.161]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E60AC480C17 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:58:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000801c28e28$97100240$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <002e01c28d81$d95948c0$b11823d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century lace cap back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:00:49 +0100 Status: RO Dear Stevie. Congratulations with your beautifull cap. I am not an expert with these regency caps, but i would suggest you make yourself a nice cup of coffe and put on Pride and Prejudice. Then keep your eyes close to the mother of the daughters. She wears a lot of beautifull lace caps. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 4:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] 18th century lace cap back > Hi all, > > Well, I am now the proud owner of a 'lovely late 18th Century cap back > ' > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=920034761&rd=1 > > for my costume for the Georgian Ball at Bath next spring. Gulp. > I have found a reference to lace cap backs at the Honiton lace museum, > but it doesn't tell me anything about cap fronts. Or, indeed, whether > there were any fronts. > Help! > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 06:17:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16323 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 06:17:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHBJ2Yb021452; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHBJ1QD005472; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHBIIQD005350 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.161]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2BC06480312 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:18:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <00c901c28e2b$6a1d05a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <003301c28d79$12e6f3c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3DD65908.33560976@gti.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:21:03 +0100 Status: RO Hi Deb Rosenborg Castle do have a website, but it only shows the times they are open. The exhibition will be in february and the catalog with patterns wont come before then. I am going to have it, and if others on this list would like a copy, perhaps i could do the posting for you. Ill get back to it in february, promise. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns > Bjarne, > Is /will there be a web site for this exhibit? Or a catalog? > ***Deb R > > > I just had the news that Castle Rosenborg in Copenhagen is having an > > exhibition starting in february next year. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 06:37:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16363 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 06:37:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHBc4Yb022092; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:38:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHBc1QD010593; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAHBb8QD010481 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:37:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021117113708.29448.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:37:08 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about tablet weaving... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:37:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Linda Krecker-Schkred > Sue, you may very well be the first or one of the first to try this. > The book you have sited has the only real explanation I've seen of > this technique. most information about tablet weaving are all about > separate braids as you have said. although I can't help much here, I > would like to encourage you to try to figure it out. Both for your > benefit and the general knowledge base. Sue Peacock (my BF's mum) from Angelcynn did this several time, and even set up looms with this, a couple are exhibited at West Stow Anglo-Saxon reconstrcuted village in Suffolk, East Anglia, in the museum and in the village part itself. Sadly, Sue passed away this Easter monday, but Richard, her widower, said he is putting together booklets from all her notes and experiments (she was an avid natural dyer too). Hopefully her knowledge won't be lost. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 07:31:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16452 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:31:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHCX2Yb023636; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 05:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHCX1QD019067; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 05:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHCWRQD018982 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 05:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18DOb9-0004XX-0W; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:32:24 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Robin Netherton From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about tablet weaving... References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:31:02 +0000 Status: RO I have done tablet-weaving onto an edge - I used it to make lacing-holes to pull my fitted 12th century dress tight at the sides, by sewing it on for a bit, then just weaving normally for a bit, then sewing it on again. Because I was nervous about attaching the tablet to the dress itself, in case it ripped out, I made little panels, wove onto the edges of that, then sewed the panels safely onto the dress. If you're used to tablet-weaving, it's fairly simple (though it would have been easier with the fabric somehow held in a frame as well as the tablet-warp), but I agree, I wouldn't do this for your first weaving project. It's tricky to get the tension right while sewing with the same thread. Jean Linda Krecker-Schkred wrote >No!!! Don't tell her that, Robin!!! Encourage her to do this edging so >she'll write a How-to, post or publish it somewhere for the rest of us >poor souls who would like to do this but can't figure it out. >:) > >Sue, you may very well be the first or one of the first to try this. >The book you have sited has the only real explanation I've seen of this >technique. most information about tablet weaving are all about separate >braids as you have said. although I can't help much here, I would like >to encourage you to try to figure it out. Both for your benefit and the >general knowledge base. > >Linda K-S > >At 2:29 AM -0600 11/15/02, Robin Netherton wrote: >>On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Sue Clemenger wrote: >> >>> I've spent part of the evening puzzling over the sleeve bits in the MoL >>> book on textiles, with the aim of picking up some authentic details for >>> a fitted gown I want to make for myself. There are several mentions of >>> edgings on things that turn out to be narrow tablet-woven bands, woven >>> directly onto the raw edge of the sleeve ... >>> (see what you're making me do, Robin? or do I get to blame Teddy, >>> too...no, wait, I'll blame him when I'm sticking my fingers, making >>> cloth buttons....;-) >> >>:-) Don't blame me for the tablet-woven edges. They're cool, indeed, but I >>can't tablet-weave and don't need another hobby, so I have pointed myself >>to the finds that show that other seam edgings were used too, and followed >>those as my model. If you tablet-weave your edges, you'll certainly get >>extra cheers, but if you decide not to tablet-weave, that doesn't mean >>your garment is any less authentic in style. >> >>The cloth buttons are easy easy. Teddy learned from me via email, they're >>that easy. But I still generally use metal ones. Plenty of evidence for >>those too, and other types as well. You have lots of choices, not just >>labor-intensive ones. >> >>--Robin >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 09:15:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16724 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:15:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHEG3Yb026337; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHEG1QD004126; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lutetium (lutetium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHEF6QD004017 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:15:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-22-245.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.22.245] helo=dan) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18DQCX-0007YM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:15:05 +0000 Message-ID: <003601c28e44$3ecdf300$f51623d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021117103323.42714.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ANTIQUE LACE-CIRCA 1760,BRUSSELS LACE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:18:47 -0000 Status: RO Nicole wrote, of > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=922148372 > > I don't think it's Brussels lace. I must confess that my copy of Pat Earnshaw's book is currently buried beneath stacks of material and fur, awaiting my creation of a Macbeth of barbaric splendour which I hope may be somewhat closer to the period than the costuming one normally sees. Provided, that is, I can persuade my lungs to behave themselves for a while. So I should be grateful for clarification of why it's not Brussels lace, and what it is instead:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 09:24:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16740 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:24:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHEM1Yb026476; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHEM1QD005019; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lutetium (lutetium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHELUQD004956 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-22-245.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.22.245] helo=dan) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18DQIj-00005f-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:21:29 +0000 Message-ID: <003b01c28e45$23aca5c0$f51623d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <002e01c28d81$d95948c0$b11823d9@dan> <000801c28e28$97100240$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century lace cap back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:25:11 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne said: i would suggest you make > yourself a nice cup of coffe and put on Pride and Prejudice. Then keep your > eyes close to the mother of the daughters. She wears a lot of beautifull > lace caps. Embarassing as this is to admit it, I don't possess the video/dvd/ whatever of Pride and Predjudice. Book yes, video no. However, I can probably get the video from the library, so I'll follow your advice and see if I can get some ideas as to how it looked. Many thanks Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 09:54:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16881 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:54:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHEqEYb027373; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHEq0QD009978; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAHEp1QD009799 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:51:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021117145101.41201.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:51:01 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Irish fine linen supplier Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:51:01 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Ha! At last! Went to the Re-enactors' market on Friday, bought something like over 20 meters of diverse linens for 5 pounds per meter! from my favourite linen people (who are just lovely, BTW) and here is their contact address: Fabric of Time Laurie and Elaine Tel. 0044 (0)1522 595597 The linen is GOOOOOOOOOORGEOUS! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 11:37:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17240 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:37:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHGZDYb001615; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:35:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHGZ1QD029995; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHGYbQD029916 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:34:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18DSNZ-0005Ju-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 08:34:37 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown Message-ID: <000101c28e57$419d4500$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021116.155825.-264597.1.catpurson@juno.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:34:52 -0700 Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf 25313 West Illini Street Buckeye, AZ 85326-6431 I'd agree with Margo that it is more likely a partlet. I am interested also in anyone's thoughts on the construction of the collar/ruff. Is that a jeweled "choker" or is it elaborate embroidery on the gown (chemise?). Not the partlet collar. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 12:07:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21390 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:07:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHH5BYb002962; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHH50QD006454; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAHH4oQD006406 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:04:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtRIG/x3XGF0a0h5Ar0gqgzUqbdxcwaibg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHT6DYSH; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:04:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown Message-ID: <20021117.113729.-161063.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-11 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:37:29 -0500 Status: RO Thanks, Margo. I rely on you almost as much as Janet Arnold. I am modifying one of you Elizabethan patterns a bit to get the effect. The bodice is perfect but the sleeve isn't Elizabethan. However, the corset and chemise are made straight from your pattern. I did cheat a bit on the underskirt, but the gown I am making now is just a mock up from some cotton fabric that is pretty if not exactly proper for the period and will be fine to wear to events in the day time. The real thing is waiting until I get the kinks worked out on cheaper fabric. Thanks again, Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 12:16:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21440 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:16:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHIWYb003616; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:18:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHH0QD009253; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAHHGfQD009193 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:16:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtRIG/x3XGF0Fn8SexGCSdlvLn9yaPM1GA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHT62MJK; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:15:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown Message-ID: <20021117.114911.-161063.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:49:11 -0500 Status: RO Thanks Sue, I agree that a two fabric bodice is not something I have seen documented. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 12:26:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21499 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:26:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHSQYb004024; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHR0QD011501; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHQUQD011381 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:26:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p20.directcon.net [206.170.184.119]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gAHHPxhh018843; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:25:59 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021117093012.00cb8e20@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown In-Reply-To: <20021117.113729.-161063.0.catpurson@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:30:12 -0800 Status: RO At 11:37 AM 11/17/2002 -0500, Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > Thanks, Margo. I rely on you almost as much as Janet Arnold. That is one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me! Thank you! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 12:31:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21576 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:31:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHXQYb004252; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:33:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHW0QD012454; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAHHRRQD011572 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:27:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtRIG/x3XGF0iJ9EIKhZG0zRhhnJJ1OAiA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHT7N6TT; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:26:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown Message-ID: <20021117.120032.-161063.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,11-13 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:00:31 -0500 Status: RO <<>> I have researched this gown to death and the only real problem I had was when I found Jane Ashelford calling it a solid bodice and not a bodice with partlet. The jeweled, embroidered collar is attached to the chemise and holds the ruff up. I am going to make it seperately and then just tack it on as the chemise will go in the washer and I think I want that collar hand washed. A bit of a nuisance to take it off, but not as bad as trying to salvage it from the washing machine. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 12:35:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21707 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:35:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHavYb004454; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHaHQD013421; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:36:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHSuQD011839 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:28:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAHHj6A0026442; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:45:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAHHj5si026440; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:45:05 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, "Saragrace Knauf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <000101c28e57$419d4500$6601a8c0@mycomputer> In-Reply-To: <000101c28e57$419d4500$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200211171245.05678.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAHHSuQD011839 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:45:05 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 17 November 2002 11:34 am, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > I'd agree with Margo that it is more likely a partlet. I am interested > also in anyone's thoughts on the construction of the collar/ruff. Is > that a jeweled "choker" or is it elaborate embroidery on the gown > (chemise?). Not the partlet collar. I think it's both--elaborate blackwork on the (high) collar of the chemise, with a red and gold carcanet worn over the collar. -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 12:49:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21962 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:49:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHp2Yb005060; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHHp1QD016616; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41207.mail.yahoo.com (web41207.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAHHonQD016569 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:50:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021117175044.69313.qmail@web41207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [143.192.1.15] by web41207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:50:44 PST From: Sheila W-S To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021117105901.2442.55299.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Queen Mary gown Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:50:44 -0800 (PST) Status: RO >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown >>Lalah wrote: >>I have been wanting to make the gown pictured at >http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/costume/pemberton/blackmary.jpg >>and decided to do some research. Janet Arnold in Queen >>Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked says that the gown is >>topped with a partlet. I made this dress for a friend a couple years ago and we did it as a buckram-lined partlet. The dress was 10-yards of 45" wide black raw silk, with 3-yards of 45" wide black velveteen for the turned sleeves and the partlet. 1.5yds of 54" wide red brocade with a gold diamond pattern for the forepart and undersleeves with 3000 gold beads (3mm). It was fully lined with 6-yards of 60" wide black satin. We did the plasteron over the front to hide the lacings, scarlett-work on the cuffs of the undersleeves and needlelace on the cuffs and around the edges of the partlet. All told it took 4-people about 3-months, most of which was spent doing beading, embroidery and lace. Underneath she wore a white smock and 4-hooped farthingale, we boned the bodice and plasteron so there was no need for a seperate corset. The partlet used dress hook & eyes under the arms and a small hook & eye on the front. However the 2-times she wore it we sewed the front of the partlet to the plasteron so it wouldn't pull up when she moved her arms. I have a couple pictures scanned but haven't been able to post them, they're in Dreamweaver and when I tried to upload them awhile ago I got an error message that they were too big. Sheila Phoenix, AZ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 13:14:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22160 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:14:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHIG2Yb006009; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHIG1QD021587; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHIF8QD021401 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:15:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip144.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.144]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gAHIF2Y21253 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:15:03 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown Message-ID: <3DD76C26.29243.2C308BC@localhost> Priority: normal References: <000101c28e57$419d4500$6601a8c0@mycomputer> In-reply-to: <200211171245.05678.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:15:02 -0800 Status: RO Cathy (responding to someone else) wrote: > > I'd agree with Margo that it is more likely a partlet. I am > > interested also in anyone's thoughts on the construction of the > > collar/ruff. Is that a jeweled "choker" or is it elaborate > > embroidery on the gown (chemise?). Not the partlet collar. > > > I think it's both--elaborate blackwork on the (high) collar of the > chemise, with a red and gold carcanet worn over the collar. I agree with that. Those "chokers" are called carcanets as she said. They show up in inventories and some of them still exist (although most of them were broken up and set into more "modern" styles in the 17th and 18th C.) They were worn alone or over a shirt/chemise/partlet (of the "under the clothes" style which were often highly embroidered) at the neck. There are a number of really good portraits illustrating this in the Ronald Lightbown book _Medieval European Jewellery_ and the Diana Scarisbrick book _Jewellery in Britain 1066-1837_. The partlets of the "over the clothes" sort often had elaborate gold work or black work or white work on the linings in the collar area. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 13:37:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22294 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:37:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHIb3Yb006935; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHIb1QD026212; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAHIaAQD025999 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtRIG/x3XGF0DJtW2/oQtX9NWGSyy1l7Fg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHUBLEKA; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:35:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Mary gown Message-ID: <20021117.130804.-161063.5.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 22-24 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:08:04 -0500 Status: RO Sheila, that sounds magnificent. I have black silk dupioni, red silk satin and black and white velvet as well as the metal lace already collected. I am presently doing it in some cotton fabric that I have available for a mock up. (Would you believe pink polished cotton for the overgown? How bad is that?) I can't afford to mess up the silk and this is my first Tudor/Elizabethan. Well, the first for me. I dressed several dolls in Tudor/Elizabethan and one in this very gown. But doll size is one thing, a gown for a 5' 9", 160 lb 68 year old lady is a whole different ball game. I like the black as it tends to diminish my ample waistline which the pink sure as heck won't do. But what the heck, at my age I can do what I want and I like pink. I used Margo's pattern for Elizabethan Ladies to make the corset and chemise (smock). The bodice and skirts are easy enough with Margo's patterns. the partlet and sleeves are not Elizabethan enough, but I think I have them worked out. I love the idea of tacking the partlet to the gown . I had thought I might use a fancy pin to hold it, but if I can't find the right one, tacking should solve the problem as long as I keep my arms down. Thanks. I plan to go with hook and eyes for the front closure. Stays down the front edge should keep it from gaping and the corset is going to take the pressure not the bodice so it should work. It won't be too big of a problem as long as I allow myself a couple of hours to get dressed. I am really excited about this. I have been wearing tunics with sideless surcotes for over a year now and am ready for something a bit prettier. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 15:08:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22791 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:08:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHKA3Yb010656; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHKA1QD017678; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHK9aQD017558 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:09:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beb8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.184]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A92C6262D15 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:09:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000a01c28e75$ae947d40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021117103323.42714.qmail@web13309.mail.yahoo.com> <003601c28e44$3ecdf300$f51623d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ANTIQUE LACE-CIRCA 1760,BRUSSELS LACE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:12:40 +0100 Status: RO Dear Stevie. I think this lace is a Brussels bobbin (point d'angleterre) With a droschel ground. Each stitch has 4 wholestitch made before next stitch is made. It is another kind of tulle ground. Only tulle dont have stitches but twists in stead of the 4 wholestitches. If this make any sense for you? That it is 18th century, there is no doubts!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ANTIQUE LACE-CIRCA 1760,BRUSSELS LACE > Nicole wrote, of > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=922148372 > > > > I don't think it's Brussels lace. > > I must confess that my copy of Pat Earnshaw's book is currently buried > beneath stacks of material and fur, awaiting my creation of a Macbeth > of barbaric splendour which I hope may be somewhat closer to the > period than the costuming one normally sees. Provided, that is, I can > persuade my lungs to behave themselves for a while. > So I should be grateful for clarification of why it's not Brussels > lace, and what it is instead:-) > > best wishes > Stevie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 15:34:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22903 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:34:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHKa3Yb011760; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHKa1QD023789; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHKZrQD023745 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:35:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18DW92-00053k-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:35:53 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Irish fine linen supplier Message-ID: <000401c28e78$f6537700$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <20021117145101.41201.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:36:08 -0700 Status: RO Nicole, do you have an address as well as a phone number? Saragrace T. Knauf 25313 West Illini Street Buckeye, AZ 85326-6431 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of N Kipar Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:51 AM To: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] Irish fine linen supplier Ha! At last! Went to the Re-enactors' market on Friday, bought something like over 20 meters of diverse linens for 5 pounds per meter! from my favourite linen people (who are just lovely, BTW) and here is their contact address: Fabric of Time Laurie and Elaine Tel. 0044 (0)1522 595597 The linen is GOOOOOOOOOORGEOUS! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 15:38:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22933 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:38:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHKe1Yb011925; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHKe1QD024763; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHKdFQD024578 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:39:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18DWCJ-0001F3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:39:15 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Irish fine linen supplier-another contact Message-ID: <000501c28e79$6eda6a30$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <20021117145101.41201.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:39:31 -0700 Status: RO Saragrace T. Knauf 25313 West Illini Street Buckeye, AZ 85326-6431 I have been in contact with an Irish linen provider from New York as well. His nicest (about 3.5 oz/yard) sells for $15 yard whole sale. (The not as nice [2.5 oz/yard] but still very nice is $13.00 yard) I am toying with the idea of buying a couple hundred yards and reselling at cost plus shipping. Would anyone be interested? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 17:48:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23973 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:48:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHMo6Yb017014; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:50:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAHMo1QD022950; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAHMntQD022904 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:49:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021117224954.76274.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:49:54 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Irish fine linen supplier To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000401c28e78$f6537700$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:49:54 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO No, sorry, they don't give out their private address on their card. I've been buying from them for a few years now. I'm afraid you'll have to phone at UK times. Nicole --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Nicole, do you have an address as well as a phone number? > > Saragrace T. Knauf > 25313 West Illini Street > Buckeye, AZ 85326-6431 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > Behalf Of N Kipar > Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:51 AM > To: H-Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Irish fine linen supplier > > Ha! At last! Went to the Re-enactors' market on Friday, bought something > like > over 20 meters of diverse linens for 5 pounds per meter! from my > favourite > linen people (who are just lovely, BTW) and here is their contact > address: > > Fabric of Time > Laurie and Elaine > Tel. 0044 (0)1522 595597 > > The linen is GOOOOOOOOOORGEOUS! > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 20:17:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24749 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:17:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI1J3Yb023344; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI1J0QD026344; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI1IoQD026290 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m138.in-tch.com [216.166.191.138]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAI13Cf07552 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:03:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DD84009.62A28D5@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] period patterns References: <003301c28d79$12e6f3c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3DD65908.33560976@gti.net> <00c901c28e2b$6a1d05a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:19:05 -0700 Status: RO Hey, Bjarne...you may end of being a proxy purchaser for a bunch of us! After all, a person can never have too many costuming books..... --sue, prying herself away from the computer to go back to her needlework.... Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi Deb > > Rosenborg Castle do have a website, but it only shows the times they are > open. > The exhibition will be in february and the catalog with patterns wont come > before then. > I am going to have it, and if others on this list would like a copy, perhaps > i could do the posting for you. > Ill get back to it in february, promise. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 20:47:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24881 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:47:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI1h4Yb024485; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI1h1QD001811; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI1gAQD001619 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:42:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20021118014203053004bbn4e>; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:42:03 +0000 Message-ID: <006a01c28ea3$b12376a0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01C28E60.A2E386E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:42:02 -0800 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C28E60.A2E386E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh my god, it's the motherlode! There's a new book out called "Fashion: A History from the 18th to the = 20th Century" that features the collection of the Kyoto Costume = Institute. =20 This book is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! It's 768 pages (I swear, it's a phone = book!) and practically every page is a gorgeous, glossy, full color = photo of a costume from the KCI's amazing costume collection. There's 4 = chapters on the 18th, 19th, first half of the 20th, and second half of = the 20th centuries, and they each take up roughly 1/4 of the book. Best of all, this book reprints many images (it might even be all of = them, I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in Fashion" and "Evolution = of Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of those, here's your = chance. Even better? It's only $40. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3822812064//qid=3D103758328= 0/sr=3D1-1/ref=3Dsr_1_1/104-4464235-5172711?v=3Dglance&s=3Dbooks&vi=3Dpic= tures Click on "See More Pictures" (under the book cover photo) for scans from = the book. - Kendra ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C28E60.A2E386E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh my god, it's the = motherlode!
 
There's a new book out called = "Fashion:  A=20 History from the 18th to the 20th Century" that features the collection = of the=20 Kyoto Costume Institute. 
 
This book is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!  = It's 768=20 pages (I swear, it's a phone book!) and practically every page is a = gorgeous,=20 glossy, full color photo of a costume from the KCI's amazing costume=20 collection.  There's 4 chapters = on the 18th,=20 19th, first half of the 20th, and second half of the 20th centuries, and = they=20 each take up roughly 1/4 of the book.
 
Best of all, this book reprints many = images (it=20 might even be all of them, I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in = Fashion"=20 and "Evolution of Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of those, = here's=20 your chance.
 
Even better?  It's only = $40.
 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3822= 812064//qid=3D1037583280/sr=3D1-1/ref=3Dsr_1_1/104-4464235-5172711?v=3Dgl= ance&s=3Dbooks&vi=3Dpictures
Click on "See More Pictures" (under the = book cover=20 photo) for scans from the book.
 
- Kendra
 
------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C28E60.A2E386E0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 22:40:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25354 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:40:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI3g2Yb000527; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI3g1QD029520; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI3fbQD029423 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from p50-nas7.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.217.50] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Dcn0-00044A-00; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:41:35 +1300 Message-ID: <004c01c28eb4$683ad9e0$32d9adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <006a01c28ea3$b12376a0$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01C28F21.5E860790" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:41:40 +1300 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C28F21.5E860790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you kendra... I am going to get this book.. even if I have to buy = it from Amazon myself;).. however Borders might be an idea.... michaela ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kendra Van Cleave=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:42 PM Subject: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book Oh my god, it's the motherlode! There's a new book out called "Fashion: A History from the 18th to = the 20th Century" that features the collection of the Kyoto Costume = Institute. =20 This book is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! It's 768 pages (I swear, it's a = phone book!) and practically every page is a gorgeous, glossy, full = color photo of a costume from the KCI's amazing costume collection. = There's 4 chapters on the 18th, 19th, first half of the 20th, and second = half of the 20th centuries, and they each take up roughly 1/4 of the = book. Best of all, this book reprints many images (it might even be all of = them, I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in Fashion" and "Evolution = of Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of those, here's your = chance. Even better? It's only $40. = http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3822812064//qid=3D103758328= 0/sr=3D1-1/ref=3Dsr_1_1/104-4464235-5172711?v=3Dglance&s=3Dbooks&vi=3Dpic= tures Click on "See More Pictures" (under the book cover photo) for scans = from the book. - Kendra ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C28F21.5E860790 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you kendra... I am going to get = this book..=20 even if I have to buy it from Amazon myself;).. however Borders might be = an=20 idea....
 
michaela
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kendra = Van=20 Cleave
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 = 2:42=20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] New Kyoto = Costume=20 Institute book

Oh my god, it's the = motherlode!
 
There's a new book out called = "Fashion:  A=20 History from the 18th to the 20th Century" that features the = collection of the=20 Kyoto Costume Institute. 
 
This book is ABSOLUTELY = AMAZING!  It's 768=20 pages (I swear, it's a phone book!) and practically every page is a = gorgeous,=20 glossy, full color photo of a costume from the KCI's amazing costume=20 collection.  There's 4 = chapters on the=20 18th, 19th, first half of the 20th, and second half of the 20th = centuries, and=20 they each take up roughly 1/4 of the book.
 
Best of all, this book reprints many = images (it=20 might even be all of them, I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in = Fashion"=20 and "Evolution of Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of = those,=20 here's your chance.
 
Even better?  It's only = $40.
 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3822= 812064//qid=3D1037583280/sr=3D1-1/ref=3Dsr_1_1/104-4464235-5172711?v=3Dgl= ance&s=3Dbooks&vi=3Dpictures
Click on "See More Pictures" (under = the book=20 cover photo) for scans from the book.
 
- Kendra
 
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C28F21.5E860790-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Nov 17 22:44:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25369 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:44:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI3j4Yb000728; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI3j4QD000402; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI3hfQD029854 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.208]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5R006R06CNGH@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:43:40 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] ANTIQUE LACE-CIRCA 1760,BRUSSELS LACE In-reply-to: <003601c28d84$e91a2740$b11823d9@dan> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021117183939.0501cb80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:40:12 -0800 Status: RO >I'm puzzled as to how anything that delicate could survive for >centuries:-) By not ever having been used for anything? By being packed away safely for most of the intervening time? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 00:01:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25774 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:01:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI533Yb004793; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI530QD016808; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20205.mail.yahoo.com (web20205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAI521QD016604 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:02:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021118050200.33016.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:02:00 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Help with French fashion circa 1510 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:02:00 +1100 (EST) Status: RO Hi all, I've just had a query from my Baroness on an image in a colouring book called "Renaissance Fashions" by Tom Tierney. I haven't seen this book or heard of it, and I've told her that I'll be asking around on all the costuming lists I'm on, so I'm hoping someone can help me to help her. In it there's a picture of a French lady, circa 1510, whose gown she wants to document. She hasn't seen anything like this before, and would like to make sure of its authenticity before she goes ahead and buys fabric etc. Unfortunately she doesn't have a scanner right now, so I'm unable to provide an image... Here's her description: "The gown is split to the waist up the front and doesn't quite reach the ground at the front. It is shaped where it hangs to a point and then goes back up again slightly to give it a hankercheif look, are you still with me because this is the bit that I'm having a hard time describing. It isn't a straight split, it is from around knee level up and the pieces almost meet in the middle then it is shaped off to the end in a V shape like a hanky shape. The gown is a plain fabric on top and a brocade lining. It has a train at the back. She is wearing a petticoat to the floor that can be seen below the gown at the front and up to the waist through the slit, it isn't your cheap nasty petticoat as it is designed to be seen. The bodice part of the gown is just straight across the top of the bust and is the same fabric as the bottom of the gown. The sleeves are made from the brocade and are bell? shaped and hang to around mid fore arm, below that she has sleeves that are full and tied at the wrist. She is wearing a square neck chemise and I have no idea on where to start with hat description. I'm guessing it would lace up at the back as I don't have a back view of it." Does anyone know what the style described is? Is it an authentic style? Could anyone point me to a picture from a painting or portrait? Many thanks in advance, Bella http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 00:31:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25876 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:31:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI5X4Yb006050; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:33:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI5X3QD023028; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI5WrQD022974 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:32:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool-63.53.186.253.snfr.grid.net ([63.53.186.253]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18DeWi-0007eI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:32:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:51:44 -0800 Status: RO At 5:50 PM -0800 11/16/02, Wanda Pease wrote: >I have a book from an exhibition that must have >taken place sometime in the 30's which brought together all the surviving >crowns they could get their hands on, around 140 or so, and pictured them. >Most of the medieval ones that were not "grave crowns" were of hinged >plaques. Title, author, publisher? I may add it to my "if it ever turns up..." book list. I'm always a sucker for Books of Glittery Stuff. :-) (Considering the publication date, I assume it's all black and white?) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 00:50:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25933 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:50:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI5q2Yb006791; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI5q1QD026497; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f63.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI5pnQD026445 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:51:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:51:44 -0800 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:51:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: 19cWoman@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Nov 2002 05:51:44.0351 (UTC) FILETIME=[932AA6F0:01C28EC6] Subject: [h-cost] Need quick links Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:51:44 -0800 Status: RO I'm begging for more photo generosity from the list members. I have the chance to help someone begin a new business concept. She is hosting "Period" tea parties for little girls and I get to make the costumes the girls will be wearing to these little fetes. She is expecting a 6-12 yr old age range and wants the costumes to be as adjustable fitwise as possible. What I really need is just tons of pictures of Victorian to Edwardian children in settings/clothing that would have been appropriate for a tea party. I need to visually submerge myself into the looks and styles so that when I go to look for patterns or fabrics I will be familiar enough to avoid any major faux pas. Our first serious planning meeting is Wed. and I'd like to have come up with an outline to work from. A couple of basic choices to elaborate on or whatever. Please reply offline to distantdesigns@hotmail.com Thanks in advance, Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 00:56:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25951 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:56:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI5w2Yb007183; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI5w1QD028150; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAI5vXQD028020 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:57:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAI6DqA0027985; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:13:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAI6DpFg027983; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:13:51 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Bella Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with French fashion circa 1510 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20021118050200.33016.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20021118050200.33016.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200211180113.51584.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAI5vXQD028020 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:13:51 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 18 November 2002 12:02 am, Bella wrote: > Hi all, > > I've just had a query from my Baroness on an image in > a colouring book called "Renaissance Fashions" by Tom > Tierney. I haven't seen this book or heard of it, and > I've told her that I'll be asking around on all the > costuming lists I'm on, so I'm hoping someone can help > me to help her. > > In it there's a picture of a French lady, circa 1510, > whose gown she wants to document. She hasn't seen > anything like this before, and would like to make sure > of its authenticity before she goes ahead and buys > fabric etc. Unfortunately she doesn't have a scanner > right now, so I'm unable to provide an image... [description cut here] I'm having a hard time getting a mental picture of your Baroness's description, and I don't have a lot of expertise with very early 16th c French fashion, However, if her source is a Tierney coloring book (he's done a whole series of these for Dover), I say "don't trust it." My experience with his work is that where he does use a source with which I'm familiar, he tends to misinterpret the costume in his redrawing. For example, in his coloring book called "Medieval Fashions", he features a drawing of a lady from the "April" picture from the Tres Riches Heures. His picture shows her wearing a sheer cape with a beaded edge, though it is clear from the original minature that she is simply wearing a very long beaded necklace. I hope someone on the list will recognize the picture and either point you to the original Tierney is butchering or otherwise get you an authoritative answer for your Baroness. Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 06:30:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15309 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:30:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIBW6Yb018360; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIBW0QD027825; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIBV1QD027644 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id DAA13908 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 03:52:40 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211181152.DAA13908@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Norweigian/Icelandic dress question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 03:52:40 -0800 (PST) Status: RO This is an excerpt from Eirik's Saga, describing the spae-wife: She came in the evening with the man who had been sent to meet her, then she was dressed like this, so that she had a blue mantle fastened with straps, and stones were set all in the flap above; on her neck she had glass beads, a black lambskin hood on her head with white catskin inside; and she had a staff in her hand with a knob on it; it was made with brass and stones were set above in the knob; she had a belt of touch-wood, and on it was a large skin pouch, and there she kept safe her talismans (taufr) which she needed to get knowledge. She had on her feet shaggy calfskin shoes with long thongs and large knobs on the ends of those. She had on her hands catskin gloves, and they were white inside and shaggy. Any idea what that "mantle" would look like? I'm trying to figure out what is meant by "fastened with straps" and "the flap above." I just don't know enough about this period to get a clear picture of what is meant. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 09:55:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17588 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:55:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIEv4Yb026553; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIEv0QD013511; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIEu6QD013244 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-22-6.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.22.6] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18DnJl-0002bK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:56:05 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c28f13$23e29e40$061627d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Lovely Bolt of Antique Irish Linen on ebay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:59:48 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, 'Lovely Bolt of Antique Irish Linen' http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=921489054 This e-bay item may be of interest, auction finishes in another hour and 40 minutes or so. I'd be interested myself but the shipping of the bolt to the UK may be prohibitive:-( If anyone wants to share the 11 yards or so I'd be very, very interested:-) best wishes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 11:40:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18176 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:40:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIGf2Yb005990; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIGf0QD029948; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIGeWQD029723 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id gAIGdaQM048897 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:39:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200211181639.gAIGdaQM048897@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Photographing Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Margo Anderson" at Nov 16, 2002 01:53:28 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:39:36 -0800 (PST) Status: RO oh, thank you wayne. I whimper and cry all the time at how many beautiful costumes are just killed with bad photography. Glad there's a resource for this now! > > My husband, Wayne, has written an article on costume photography, covering > everything from choosing digital or film cameras, lighting, modeling, > postproduction work, and much more. You can see it at > www.margospatterns.com. Enjoy! > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > > > See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 13:37:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19155 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:37:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIIc8Yb018400; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:38:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIIc1k8005247; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAIIbJk8004842 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:37:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgRJzJyCoD037Pa5sHVniEhd93NN0rnJUw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHWV4ANZ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:37:05 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021118.123719.-420811.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] The Saga Continues..... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:36:03 -0600 Status: RO I have added the next installment of 'To Dress A Queen'. http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 14:15:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19354 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:15:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJDGYb021536; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:13:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJDFk8022812; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:13:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJCWk8022411 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:12:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.41.26da708a (3699) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:12:23 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <41.26da708a.2b0a9597@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_41.26da708a.2b0a9597_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:12:23 EST Status: RO --part1_41.26da708a.2b0a9597_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/17/2002 8:46:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, kendrav@attbi.com writes: > Best of all, this book reprints many images (it might even be all of them, > I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in Fashion" and "Evolution of > Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of those, here's your chance. > > The images on Amazon look like exactly the same photos. What are the advantages to those of us who already have "Revolution in Fashion"? Ann Wass who just spent $100 on books, and is wondering about spending more. (One was "What Clothes Reveal"--wonderful!) --part1_41.26da708a.2b0a9597_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/17/2002 8:46:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, kendrav@attbi.com writes:


Best of all, this book reprints many images (it might even be all of them, I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in Fashion" and "Evolution of Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of those, here's your chance.



The images on Amazon look like exactly the same photos.  What are the advantages to those of us who already have "Revolution in Fashion"?

Ann Wass
who just spent $100 on books, and is wondering about spending more. (One was "What Clothes Reveal"--wonderful!) --part1_41.26da708a.2b0a9597_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 14:15:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19355 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:15:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJD2Yb021510; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJD1k8022671; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJCWk8022404 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:12:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from Everydayele@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 7.6d.268db3c (4012) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:12:24 -0500 (EST) From: Everydayele@aol.com Message-ID: <6d.268db3c.2b0a9598@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_6d.268db3c.2b0a9598_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 231 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kyoto Costume Book/1836 dress update Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:12:24 EST Status: RO --part1_6d.268db3c.2b0a9598_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Kendra, Thanks so much for your post about this book I just ordered it right now at Amazon. A few weeks back when I posted about the 1836 style dresses that I am working on, AlbertCat had suggested getting a hold of the Evolution of Fashion catalog from Kyoto. I logged onto their site but was unable to find out if it was still available, I also E-mailed a request to them for it, but they haven't responded. The dresses are coming out fabulous! (If I may so boast :) Once I realized that the armhole is similar to a dropped shoulder with a higher opening, and reoriented my thinking about the armhole being on the upper arm instead of the contemporary armscye location, I was set. I am boning the bodices, since corsets won't be worn. (thanks for the suggestion AlbertCat. No corsets allowed is not a matter of discomfort, it's a budgetary issue.) Take care Angela --part1_6d.268db3c.2b0a9598_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Kendra,

Thanks so much for your post about this book I just ordered it right now at Amazon.
A few weeks back when I posted about the 1836 style dresses that I am working on, AlbertCat had suggested getting a hold of the Evolution of Fashion catalog from Kyoto.  I logged onto their site but was unable to find out if it was still available, I also E-mailed a request to them for it, but they haven't responded.

The dresses are coming out fabulous!  (If I may so boast :)  
Once I realized that the armhole is similar to a dropped shoulder with a higher opening, and reoriented my thinking about the armhole being on the upper arm instead of the contemporary armscye location, I was set.
I am boning the bodices, since corsets won't be worn. (thanks for the suggestion AlbertCat. No corsets allowed is not a matter of discomfort, it's a budgetary issue.)

Take care
Angela


 --part1_6d.268db3c.2b0a9598_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 14:18:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19401 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:18:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJK4Yb022216; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJK0k8026444; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJJgk8026271 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.154] (as3-4-168.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.154]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gAIJJel01331 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:19:41 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:28:00 -0800 Status: RO At 9:51 AM -0800 11/17/02, Chris Laning wrote: >At 5:50 PM -0800 11/16/02, Wanda Pease wrote: >>I have a book from an exhibition that must have >>taken place sometime in the 30's which brought together all the surviving >>crowns they could get their hands on, around 140 or so, and pictured them. >>Most of the medieval ones that were not "grave crowns" were of hinged >>plaques. > >Title, author, publisher? If it isn't: Biehn, Heinz. 1957. Die Kronen Europas. Limes Verlag, Wiesbaden. then there are two such exhibition catalogs in existence. >I may add it to my "if it ever turns up..." book list. I'm always a >sucker for Books of Glittery Stuff. :-) > >(Considering the publication date, I assume it's all black and white?) That's my recollection. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 15:04:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19659 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:04:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIK53Yb026039; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIK51k8020116; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIK4fk8019929 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be5d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.93]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9ED52480EB1 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:04:39 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001001c28f3d$bd6a42f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Arkeological finds in Denmark Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:04:45 +0100 Status: RO Hi the list! Yesterday i was watching a program in the television about arkeologic finds in Copenhagen. We have had a lot of digging in the old streets of Copenhagen because they made a subway tube. Some of the most interresting finds for this list was a hairnet from 15th. century, miraculous in a fantastic condition. And one gentlemans shoe 15th. century a so called "Kohmule" (Cow Mouth?) I dont know what you call these shoes, but they are funny shaped like a cows nose. And the peace the feet is resting on is very narrow. I wondered how they walked with these shoes, big men with heavy clothes, and then these funny shoes. They were not made for a worker, that is for sure. I should not have worn those if i had had 3 glasses of wine!!! Another remarkable find was a fine piece of silk. It had 125 threads in the weft and 30 in the warp (or was it the other way round? for each square centimeter!!! I know the question about hairnet has ben up on this list several times, i did not follow it, but maybe someone here gets surprised. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 15:45:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19845 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:45:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIKj3Yb029776; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIKj1k8011037; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIKiok8010932 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:44:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be5d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.93]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BE01A5EF123 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:44:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c28f43$5b18fbe0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <41.26da708a.2b0a9597@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C28F4B.BCB4CD40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:44:57 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C28F4B.BCB4CD40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes this list is quite expensive to know!! I also had to order, and i ordered "What Clothes Reveal" two Those are christmas presents for myself! Bjarne =20 Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AnnBWass@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book In a message dated 11/17/2002 8:46:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, = kendrav@attbi.com writes: Best of all, this book reprints many images (it might even be all of = them, I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in Fashion" and "Evolution = of Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of those, here's your = chance. The images on Amazon look like exactly the same photos. What are the = advantages to those of us who already have "Revolution in Fashion"? Ann Wass who just spent $100 on books, and is wondering about spending more. = (One was "What Clothes Reveal"--wonderful!)=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C28F4B.BCB4CD40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes this list is quite expensive to=20 know!!
I also had to order, and i ordered =  "What=20 Clothes Reveal" two
Those are christmas presents for=20 myself!
 
Bjarne
 
 
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk
=
 
http://home0.inet.tele.dk/dr= ewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 AnnBWass@aol.com=20
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 = 8:12=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Kyoto = Costume=20 Institute book

In a message dated 11/17/2002 8:46:01 PM Eastern = Standard=20 Time, kendrav@attbi.com=20 writes:


Best of all, this book reprints many images (it might = even be=20 all of them, I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in Fashion" and=20 "Evolution of Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of those, = here's=20 your chance.



The images on Amazon look like exactly the = same=20 photos.  What are the advantages to those of us who already have=20 "Revolution in Fashion"?

Ann Wass
who just spent $100 on = books, and=20 is wondering about spending more. (One was "What Clothes=20 Reveal"--wonderful!) ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C28F4B.BCB4CD40-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 15:45:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19851 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:45:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIKl1Yb029926; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIKl1k8012046; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIKkmk8011960 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:46:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be5d.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.93]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 388585EF195 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:46:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c28f43$a1d273e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20021118.123719.-420811.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Continues..... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:46:55 +0100 Status: RO Oh My This is indeed going to be a dress for a queen! It looks lovely, thankyou for letteing us have a look. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 7:36 PM Subject: [h-cost] The Saga Continues..... > I have added the next installment of 'To Dress A Queen'. > > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ > > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 16:03:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19970 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:03:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIL44Yb001511; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:04:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIL41HV021127; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAIL3cHV020798 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgRJzJyCoD03JNXupWvG3G7XOAmifCsWpQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HHW6GD6B; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:03:30 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Continues..... Message-ID: <20021118.150406.-420811.5.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,8-16 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:04:06 -0600 Status: RO Thank-you! Coming from a person as talented as yourself, I consider that high praise indeed! Karen On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:46:55 +0100 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Oh My > > This is indeed going to be a dress for a queen! > It looks lovely, thankyou for letteing us have a look. > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 16:16:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20012 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:16:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAILG6Yb002597; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAILG4HV027517; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta05ps.bigpond.com (mta05ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAILFZHV027223 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:15:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.81]) by mta05ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta05ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H5SJ1R00.8BQ for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:15:27 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.159 ([203.54.114.159]) by psmam05.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.2 101/1391355); 19 Nov 2002 07:15:22 Message-ID: <3DDA47AE.8D0FDFE6@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with French fashion circa 1510 References: <20021118050200.33016.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:16:14 -0800 Status: RO Bella wrote: > Hi all, > > I've just had a query from my Baroness on an image in > a colouring book called "Renaissance Fashions" by Tom > Tierney. I haven't seen this book or heard of it, and > I've told her that I'll be asking around on all the > costuming lists I'm on, so I'm hoping someone can help > me to help her. > > In it there's a picture of a French lady, circa 1510, > whose gown she wants to document. She hasn't seen > anything like this before, and would like to make sure > of its authenticity before she goes ahead and buys > fabric etc. Unfortunately she doesn't have a scanner > right now, so I'm unable to provide an image... > > Here's her description: > > "The gown is split to the waist up the front and > doesn't quite reach the ground at the front. It is > shaped where it hangs to a point and then goes back up > again slightly to give it a hankercheif look, are you > still with me because this is the bit that I'm having > a hard time describing. It isn't a straight split, it > is from around knee level up and the pieces almost > meet in the middle then it is shaped off to the end in > a V shape like a hanky shape. The gown is a plain > fabric on top and a brocade lining. It has a train at > the back. She is wearing a petticoat to the floor > that can be seen below the gown at the front and up to > the waist through the slit, it isn't your cheap nasty > petticoat as it is designed to be seen. The bodice > part of the gown is just straight across the top of > the bust and is the same fabric as the bottom of the > gown. The sleeves are made from the brocade and are > bell? shaped and hang to around mid fore arm, below > that she has sleeves that are full and tied at the > wrist. She is wearing a square neck chemise and I > have no idea on where to start with hat description. > I'm guessing it would lace up at the back as I don't > have a back view of it." > > Does anyone know what the style described is? Is it an > authentic style? Could anyone point me to a picture > from a painting or portrait? > Hmmm, it sounds like some of the turn of the 16th century allegorical stuff (the Lady and the Unicorn series of tapestries is a good example of this and should be famous enough to find a few pics of). I don't suppose there's any context with that image? What you generally find in this era is that the allegorical stuff is the same shape, colours and materials (more or less) as the real stuff, but tends to have less of the fantastical details like skirt splits, funky sleeves or wierd headdresses. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 18:24:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20770 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:24:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAINO9Yb019257; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAINO0HV011721; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAINNrHV011660 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:23:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from post (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id gAINNA118389 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:23:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <003901c28f59$6cb41e00$873c6a8d@its.mcw.edu.aghlab> From: "mls" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Current art exhibit spanning 12c - 20c Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:22:55 -0600 Status: RO Hi All! I know this is a late suggestion, but the art exhibit "Leonardo da Vinci and the Splendor of Poland" is FANTASTIC - from an art as well as costume/clothing point of view. It remains in Milwaukee, WI through 24 Nov then travels to Houston 8 Dec 2002 - 17 Feb 2003, or somewhere in CA after that. I've heard that the exhibit book is great, but have yet to get my hands on it. Regardless, the upcoming "Art of Late Renaissance Florence" and the attendant textile exhibit, "Renaissance Velvets and Silks" sound like wonderful follow-ups to the Milwaukee show. I cannot recommend the Milwaukee show enough. - It is beautiful. -marie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 18:43:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20947 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:43:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAINjFYb022720; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAINjFHV023629; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAINi8HV023058 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.134] (as3-4-148.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.134]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gAINi0l02769; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:44:03 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200211181152.DAA13908@gw.retro.com> References: <200211181152.DAA13908@gw.retro.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Norweigian/Icelandic dress question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:01:29 -0800 Status: RO At 3:52 AM -0800 11/18/02, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: >This is an excerpt from Eirik's Saga, describing the spae-wife: >She came in the evening with the man who had been sent to meet her, then she >was dressed like this, so that she had a blue mantle fastened with straps, and >stones were set all in the flap above; on her neck she had glass >beads, a black >lambskin hood on her head with white catskin inside; and she had a >staff in her >hand with a knob on it; it was made with brass and stones were set >above in the >knob; she had a belt of touch-wood, and on it was a large skin >pouch, and there >she kept safe her talismans (taufr) which she needed to get knowledge. She had >on her feet shaggy calfskin shoes with long thongs and large knobs on the ends >of those. She had on her hands catskin gloves, and they were white inside and >shaggy. > >Any idea what that "mantle" would look like? I'm trying to figure out >what is meant by "fastened with straps" and "the flap above." I just don't >know enough about this period to get a clear picture of what is meant. Have you tried the "Viking Answer Lady" articles about clothing? I'm reasonably certain that she covers interpreting clothing references in literature. It would also probably help to discover what the original words are that are being translated here. For example, in examining other passages from sagas, I often find that a word translated as a specific type of garment in English was originally a fairly generic term. The one I'm recalling most clearly was translated "mantle" (among other things) where the original was much more along the lines of "over-garment". Translators of literature aren't always (often?) specialists in costume, so elements of specific meaning may be either added or subtracted in the translation process. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 18:43:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20951 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:43:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAINj5Yb022696; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:45:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAINj3HV023521; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAINi8HV023054 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [136.152.196.134] (as3-4-148.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.134]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gAINi0l02769; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:44:03 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200211181152.DAA13908@gw.retro.com> References: <200211181152.DAA13908@gw.retro.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Norweigian/Icelandic dress question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:01:29 -0800 Status: RO At 3:52 AM -0800 11/18/02, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: >This is an excerpt from Eirik's Saga, describing the spae-wife: >She came in the evening with the man who had been sent to meet her, then she >was dressed like this, so that she had a blue mantle fastened with straps, and >stones were set all in the flap above; on her neck she had glass >beads, a black >lambskin hood on her head with white catskin inside; and she had a >staff in her >hand with a knob on it; it was made with brass and stones were set >above in the >knob; she had a belt of touch-wood, and on it was a large skin >pouch, and there >she kept safe her talismans (taufr) which she needed to get knowledge. She had >on her feet shaggy calfskin shoes with long thongs and large knobs on the ends >of those. She had on her hands catskin gloves, and they were white inside and >shaggy. > >Any idea what that "mantle" would look like? I'm trying to figure out >what is meant by "fastened with straps" and "the flap above." I just don't >know enough about this period to get a clear picture of what is meant. Have you tried the "Viking Answer Lady" articles about clothing? I'm reasonably certain that she covers interpreting clothing references in literature. It would also probably help to discover what the original words are that are being translated here. For example, in examining other passages from sagas, I often find that a word translated as a specific type of garment in English was originally a fairly generic term. The one I'm recalling most clearly was translated "mantle" (among other things) where the original was much more along the lines of "over-garment". Translators of literature aren't always (often?) specialists in costume, so elements of specific meaning may be either added or subtracted in the translation process. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 21:01:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22194 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:01:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ233Yb002834; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ231HV016348; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ22KHV016082 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 ([24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021119020214.XNQW2683.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@hopperflop2> for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:02:14 +0000 Message-ID: <002d01c28f6f$ae414490$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <41.26da708a.2b0a9597@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:02:14 -0800 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: AnnBWass@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book > The images on Amazon look like exactly the same photos. What are the advantages to those of us who already have "Revolution in Fashion"? As I said before, the book is 768 pages, with 4 chapters, each about 1/4th of the book: 18th century, 19th century, first half of the 20th century, and second half of the 20th century. Therefore, you get not only many of the images from "Revolution" in the 18th and first part of the 19th centuries, but also new ones. Again, if you have "Evolution of Fashion" many of those images are in the 19th century chapter, but there are also new ones. Finally, you get the two 20th century chapters. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 21:51:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22561 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:51:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ2r3Yb006134; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ2r0HV001251; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ2qrHV001190 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.64.2867482c (4340) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:52:44 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <64.2867482c.2b0b017c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:52:44 EST Status: RO In a message dated 11/18/02 2:14:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: << What are the advantages to those of us who already have "Revolution in Fashion"? >> We can play paper dolls with one of the books???? Actually, I think the new book has clothes I've never seen before....as well as some from "Revolution". It must if it covers the 19th and 20th century. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 21:52:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22567 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:52:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ2s1Yb006193; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ2s1HV001550; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ2rhHV001421 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:53:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.141.2faf833 (4340) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:53:31 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <141.2faf833.2b0b01ab@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Kyoto Costume Book/1836 dress update To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:53:31 EST Status: RO In a message dated 11/18/02 2:15:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Everydayele@aol.com writes: << The dresses are coming out fabulous! (If I may so boast :) >> Sorry....no boasting allowed without photos! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 23:50:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22941 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:50:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ4p3Yb013204; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ4p1HV004971; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20208.mail.yahoo.com (web20208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAJ4odHV004846 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:50:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021119045038.83439.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:50:38 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with French fashion circa 1510 To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DDA47AE.8D0FDFE6@bigpond.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:50:38 +1100 (EST) Status: RO Hi all, just wish to say thank you from my Baroness and myself to those who helped with her query - it was much appreciated. :) Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Nov 18 23:54:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22946 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:54:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ4r1Yb013321; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ4r1HV005547; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20202.mail.yahoo.com (web20202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAJ4q8HV005290 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:52:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021119045208.87459.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:52:08 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Saga Continues..... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021118.123719.-420811.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:52:08 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I have added the next installment of 'To Dress A > Queen'. > > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ ooh...it's looking gorgeous! :) Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 01:38:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23292 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:38:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ6e3Yb018755; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ6e0HV005282; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ6dFHV005088 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:39:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ6Ytww005627 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:34:56 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:41:28 -0800 Status: RO That's it! Teach me to read all the posts on a thread before answering one. I had a captive German speaker when I first got the book. He's still around somewhere and can be persuaded to translate things like this (page at a time) or the Manesse Liederhandschrift that I brought home from Germany. Regina/Wanda -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 9:28 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to make Charlemagne's crown, any ideas? At 9:51 AM -0800 11/17/02, Chris Laning wrote: >At 5:50 PM -0800 11/16/02, Wanda Pease wrote: >>I have a book from an exhibition that must have >>taken place sometime in the 30's which brought together all the surviving >>crowns they could get their hands on, around 140 or so, and pictured them. >>Most of the medieval ones that were not "grave crowns" were of hinged >>plaques. > >Title, author, publisher? If it isn't: Biehn, Heinz. 1957. Die Kronen Europas. Limes Verlag, Wiesbaden. then there are two such exhibition catalogs in existence. >I may add it to my "if it ever turns up..." book list. I'm always a >sucker for Books of Glittery Stuff. :-) > >(Considering the publication date, I assume it's all black and white?) That's my recollection. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 07:20:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13101 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:20:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJCMBYb029723; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 05:22:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJCM1HV022358; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 05:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAJCLuHV022312 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 05:21:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021119122154.63214.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:21:54 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Another appeal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:21:54 +1100 (EST) Status: RO Hi all, if anyone has the Medieval Woman calender with the picture of the "Spanish tassel dress" in it, could you please let me know, with details of artist, year, museum? Better still if you could spare 10 minutes to scan it and send it to me it would be much appreciated. Or, if anyone knows this style and can find it elsewhere that would be cool too. :) Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 09:12:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13697 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:12:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJEB3Yb004316; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJEB1WU020329; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJEANWU020132 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:10:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m76.in-tch.com [216.166.191.76]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAJDsgf15197 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:54:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DDA4661.FC1A7C6D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another appeal References: <20021119122154.63214.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:10:41 -0700 Status: RO I've got a bunch of them, Bella. Do you know what calendar (year) it was in? --sue Bella wrote: > > Hi all, > > if anyone has the Medieval Woman calender with the > picture of the "Spanish tassel dress" in it, could you > please let me know, with details of artist, year, > museum? Better still if you could spare 10 minutes to > scan it and send it to me it would be much > appreciated. > > Or, if anyone knows this style and can find it > elsewhere that would be cool too. :) > > Bella > > http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper > - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 12:27:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14869 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:27:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJHS5Yb020812; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:28:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJHS0WU023653; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe73.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.20.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJHR9WU023068 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:27:04 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [218.225.32.22] From: "Kimie SUZUKI" To: References: <6d.268db3c.2b0a9598@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Kyoto Costume Book/1836 dress update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2903B.E8498E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Nov 2002 17:27:04.0380 (UTC) FILETIME=[E0A79FC0:01C28FF0] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Kimie SUZUKI" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 02:24:09 +0900 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2903B.E8498E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Angela, According to the web page of The National Museum of Modern Art, Kyoto( http://www.momak.go.jp/menu_e.html ) this catalog is still available. But I am not sure that they can send it outside Japan. Kimie ----- Original Message ----- From: Everydayele@aol.com To: h-costume@net.indra.com Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:12 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kyoto Costume Book/1836 dress update HI Kendra, Thanks so much for your post about this book I just ordered it right now at Amazon. A few weeks back when I posted about the 1836 style dresses that I am working on, AlbertCat had suggested getting a hold of the Evolution of Fashion catalog from Kyoto. I logged onto their site but was unable to find out if it was still available, I also E-mailed a request to them for it, but they haven't responded. The dresses are coming out fabulous! (If I may so boast :) Once I realized that the armhole is similar to a dropped shoulder with a higher opening, and reoriented my thinking about the armhole being on the upper arm instead of the contemporary armscye location, I was set. I am boning the bodices, since corsets won't be worn. (thanks for the suggestion AlbertCat. No corsets allowed is not a matter of discomfort, it's a budgetary issue.) Take care Angela ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2903B.E8498E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Angela,
 
According to the web page of The National Museum of = Modern=20 Art, Kyoto( http://www.momak.go.jp/menu_e= .html )
this catalog is still available. But I am not sure = that they=20 can send it outside Japan.
 
Kimie
----- Original = Message -----
From:=20 Everydayele@aol.com
Sent: = Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:12=20 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kyoto Costume=20 Book/1836 dress update

HI Kendra,

Thanks so much for your post = about this=20 book I just ordered it right now at Amazon.
A few weeks back when I = posted=20 about the 1836 style dresses that I am working on, AlbertCat had = suggested=20 getting a hold of the Evolution of Fashion catalog from Kyoto.  I = logged=20 onto their site but was unable to find out if it was still available, = I also=20 E-mailed a request to them for it, but they haven't responded. =

The=20 dresses are coming out fabulous!  (If I may so boast = :)  =20
Once I realized that the armhole is similar to a dropped shoulder = with a=20 higher opening, and reoriented my thinking about the armhole being on = the=20 upper arm instead of the contemporary armscye location, I was = set.
I am=20 boning the bodices, since corsets won't be worn. (thanks for the = suggestion=20 AlbertCat. No corsets allowed is not a matter of discomfort, it's a = budgetary=20 issue.)

Take=20 care
Angela


 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2903B.E8498E00-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 14:43:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16520 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:43:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJJf4Yb003976; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJJf2WU009674; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf07bis.bellsouth.net (mail207.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJJe3WU009135 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from GEOFF ([216.76.153.195]) by imf07bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with ESMTP id <20021119194144.XNJP17861.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@GEOFF> for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:41:44 -0500 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Current art exhibit spanning 12c - 20c Message-ID: <002301c29003$5307d8c0$c3994cd8@GEOFF> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <003901c28f59$6cb41e00$873c6a8d@its.mcw.edu.aghlab> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:39:04 -0500 Status: RO Ooooo! Where can I get an exhibit book for all of them? Apollonia, wishing she was in WI.... -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of mls Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:23 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Current art exhibit spanning 12c - 20c Hi All! I know this is a late suggestion, but the art exhibit "Leonardo da Vinci and the Splendor of Poland" is FANTASTIC - from an art as well as costume/clothing point of view. It remains in Milwaukee, WI through 24 Nov then travels to Houston 8 Dec 2002 - 17 Feb 2003, or somewhere in CA after that. I've heard that the exhibit book is great, but have yet to get my hands on it. Regardless, the upcoming "Art of Late Renaissance Florence" and the attendant textile exhibit, "Renaissance Velvets and Silks" sound like wonderful follow-ups to the Milwaukee show. I cannot recommend the Milwaukee show enough. - It is beautiful. -marie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 14:56:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16617 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:56:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJJw3Yb005373; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJJw1WU018243; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cmsoutbound.mx.net (cmsrelay04.mx.net [165.212.11.113]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAJJv9WU017787 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:57:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200211191957.gAJJv9WU017787@net.indra.com> Received: from uadvg143.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.143) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 19:57:06 -0000 Received: from gw.smtp.postoffice.net [165.212.8.21] by uadvg143.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 822gksT6e0118M43; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:57:04 GMT Received: from 66.82.101.146 [66.82.101.146] by uwdvg021.cms.usa.net (USANET web-mailer CM.0402.4.10); Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:57:03 -0000 From: Leslie To: Subject: Re: [[h-cost] Current art exhibit spanning 12c - 20c] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (CM.0402.4.10) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAJJv9WU017787 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:57:03 -0600 Status: RO Is there any more info when/where this is going to take place in Houston? TIA, Leslie "mls" wrote: > Hi All! > > I know this is a late suggestion, but the art exhibit "Leonardo da Vinci and > the Splendor of Poland" is FANTASTIC - from an art as well as > costume/clothing point of view. It remains in Milwaukee, WI through 24 Nov > then travels to Houston 8 Dec 2002 - 17 Feb 2003, or somewhere in CA after > that. I've heard that the exhibit book is great, but have yet to get my > hands on it. Regardless, the upcoming "Art of Late Renaissance Florence" > and the attendant textile exhibit, "Renaissance Velvets and Silks" sound > like wonderful follow-ups to the Milwaukee show. I cannot recommend the > Milwaukee show enough. - It is beautiful. > > -marie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 15:26:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16823 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:26:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJKQ4Yb007723; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:26:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJKQ0WU003589; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJKPuWU003552 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:25:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem-749.barrelled.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.142.237] helo=lance5) by cmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18EEwV-0004Dy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:25:55 +0000 From: "Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021118190010.16311.137.Mailman@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] RE: Norwegian/Icelandic dress question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:28:27 -0000 Status: RO >on her neck she had glass > beads, a black > lambskin hood on her head with white catskin inside; and she had > a staff in her > hand with a knob on it; > I'm sure there are people on this list who know more, but there's lots of baggage attached to wearing catskin in the Sagas and other Nordic myth - and we don't know the half of it. It was all tied in with witchcraft (and NOT in a good sense) and the otherworld. Nice people didn't wear catskin. Freyalyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 17:10:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17734 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:10:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJMB9Yb017792; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJMB1f0003954; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAJMAVf0003678 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:10:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 31465 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 23:02:37 -0000 Received: from 66-44-20-110.s110.apx3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.20.110) by shada.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 23:02:37 -0000 Message-ID: <3DDAB6C0.3090306@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Norwegian/Icelandic dress question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:10:08 -0500 Status: RO Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth wrote: > I'm sure there are people on this list who know more, but there's lots of > baggage attached to wearing catskin in the Sagas and other Nordic myth - and > we don't know the half of it. It was all tied in with witchcraft (and NOT > in a good sense) and the otherworld. Nice people didn't wear catskin. It's true that this whole section is about a volva who went around the farms in Greenland prophesying about the future, and her garb is likely very ceremonial in various ways. After all, cat parts would likely involve a link with Freyja. Definately otherworld - but there is "witchcraft" and "witchcraft", not all was considered evil. However, I'm not sure that the commnet about nice people not wearing catskin is entirely accurate as there is planty of evidence of cat fur being sold along with the fox and squirrel furs. so someone is buying enough of it that archeological evidence does exist. Mind you, it wouldn't be MY first choice... -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 17:42:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17907 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:42:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJMi4Yb020790; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJMi0f0022800; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJMhtf0022730 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:43:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from post (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id gAJMhAX09579 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:43:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <002d01c2901d$002a03c0$873c6a8d@its.mcw.edu.aghlab> From: "mls" To: References: <002301c29003$5307d8c0$c3994cd8@GEOFF> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Current art exhibit spanning 12c - 20c Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:42:54 -0600 Status: RO The web site for the Milwaukee Art Museum is: www.mam.org The Houston museum web site is: www.mfah.org That site will tell you more. I'm sure you could contact them about purchasing the catalogue. If you go to the web site, you ***MUST*** check out the "photo gallery" under "More on MAM". This section has photos of the new addition by S. Calatrava. It is quite beautiful, especially as it juts out over the lake - exactly like a bird in flight. Or, when driving East on the main drag through downtown the support for the pedestrian bridge looks like the bowsprit of a sailing vessel. -sorry more info than you needed, but this addition has really excited and revitalized MKE. -marie ----- Original Message ----- From: Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi To: Sent: Tuesday, 19 November, 2002 1:39 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Current art exhibit spanning 12c - 20c > Ooooo! Where can I get an exhibit book for all of them? > > Apollonia, wishing she was in WI.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > Behalf Of mls > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:23 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Current art exhibit spanning 12c - 20c > > > Hi All! > > I know this is a late suggestion, but the art exhibit "Leonardo da Vinci > and > the Splendor of Poland" is FANTASTIC - from an art as well as > costume/clothing point of view. It remains in Milwaukee, WI through 24 > Nov > then travels to Houston 8 Dec 2002 - 17 Feb 2003, or somewhere in CA > after > that. I've heard that the exhibit book is great, but have yet to get my > hands on it. Regardless, the upcoming "Art of Late Renaissance > Florence" > and the attendant textile exhibit, "Renaissance Velvets and Silks" sound > like wonderful follow-ups to the Milwaukee show. I cannot recommend the > Milwaukee show enough. - It is beautiful. > > -marie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 19:10:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18350 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK028Yb028428; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:02:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK020iR004588; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAK01MiR004307 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:01:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021120000121.98202.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:01:21 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another appeal To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DDA4661.FC1A7C6D@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:01:21 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > I've got a bunch of them, Bella. Do you know what > calendar (year) it > was in? Thanks sue, no I don't - I only know that it was in the last couple of years or so, not including this year. Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 19:39:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18479 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:39:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK0f4Yb002254; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK0f1iR021075; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK0e7iR020369 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.193.10ef1119 (15862) for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m30.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v89.21) with ESMTP id MAILINID61-1119193944; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:39:44 -0500 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <26AD8036.4C9F84E8.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Photographing costumes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:39:44 -0500 Status: RO Thank You Wayne!! You have given us laypeople a wonderful guide for those of us who want to do our own photography. It is very clear and understandable. Thank you again! Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 20:36:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18842 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:36:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK1b3Yb005648; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK1b1iR010481; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK1atiR010436 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:36:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.236.208]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5U0093OPTHW8@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:36:55 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Photographing costumes In-reply-to: <26AD8036.4C9F84E8.0251717C@aol.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021119172516.04c7fc80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:26:42 -0800 Status: RO >Thank You Wayne!! You have given us laypeople a wonderful guide for those >of us who want to do our own photography. It is very clear and >understandable. Thank you again! And I found it over-detailed and thick reading. But even I realized all the technique was contained therein. I'll have to re-read it a few more times to make complete sense of it. But I agree with the 'thank you, Wayne' part. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 21:11:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18976 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:11:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK2C4Yb007789; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:12:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK2C3iR021102; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK2BUiR020901 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.112] (pm4-112.eos.net [205.133.149.112]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09596 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:11:28 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021119020301.16334.65105.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] musketeer pattern Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:08:48 -0500 Status: RO My plumber (really) told me that he wants to make a Three Musketeer-style outfit for himself but that he doesn't know how to make the tabard. I told him that I thought he could buy a pattern for this. Does anyone know of one? You can reply privately if you'd rather not clutter the list -- Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 21:33:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19059 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:33:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK2X2Yb009210; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK2X0iR027561; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK2WoiR027511 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:32:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m203.in-tch.com [216.166.191.203]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAK2H8L15499 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:17:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DDAF463.DB88B6A5@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] musketeer pattern References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:33:07 -0700 Status: RO I'd look in the costume sections of the Simplicity/McCalls/etc. catalogues, first-off. I betcha one of them has something like that! --sue Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > My plumber (really) told me that he wants to make a Three Musketeer-style > outfit for himself but that he doesn't know how to make the tabard. I told > him that I thought he could buy a pattern for this. Does anyone know of one? > You can reply privately if you'd rather not clutter the list -- > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 21:50:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19109 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:50:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK2p4Yb010298; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK2p1iR002917; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20210.mail.yahoo.com (web20210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAK2o0iR002646 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:50:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021120024959.72439.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:49:59 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] musketeer pattern To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:49:59 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > > My plumber (really) told me that he wants to make a > Three Musketeer-style > outfit for himself but that he doesn't know how to > make the tabard. I told > him that I thought he could buy a pattern for this. > Does anyone know of one? Yep. :) from this page: Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 22:46:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19380 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:46:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK3l5Yb013699; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:47:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK3l1iR020440; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK3kLiR020241 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:46:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK3lKYv020447 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:47:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3DDB0620.1040607@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] musketeer pattern References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:48:48 -0800 Status: RO WOuld this be of use to your plumber? http://members.aol.com/randwhit/patterns.htm#mandelion Good luck, Theresa Eacker Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > My plumber (really) told me that he wants to make a Three Musketeer-style > outfit for himself but that he doesn't know how to make the tabard. I told > him that I thought he could buy a pattern for this. Does anyone know of one? > You can reply privately if you'd rather not clutter the list -- > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Nov 19 23:11:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19534 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:11:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK4C2Yb015243; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK4C1iR027605; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12004.mail.yahoo.com (web12004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAK4BsiR027567 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:11:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021120041154.38885.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.248] by web12004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:11:54 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] exhibit book in Feb and linen at wholesale Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:11:54 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Bjarne, Yes I would be interested in the exhibition catalog with patterns when it comes out. Please post when you have particulars and I'll start saving my pennies, singles, fives, etc. Wholesaling linen plus shipping would be lovely too for whoever was mentioning that. I was just at Baer fabric in Louisville and good linen at less than 22-25.00 per yard sounds like a good deal. Now I've probably forgotten something but I haven't caught up on all the posts yet as I just got back from my Mama's house in Kentucky. Obligatory costume content.....When people talk about 3.5 oz linen or 2.5 oz linen, what do they mean? Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 20 00:09:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19813 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 00:09:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK4t2Yb017856; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK4t0iR010223; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-87.apple.com [17.250.248.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAK4sQiR010038 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:54:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id gAK4sPcd012024 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:54:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.95.177.85] ([128.95.177.85]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id H5UYYO00.MEM for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:54:24 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 From: Agnes G To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021119190008.15585.14508.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: New Kyoto Costume Institute book Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:54:22 -0800 Status: RO Just to add a little more fuel to our shopping frenzy - I checked at Powells.com and they have the new Kyoto book for $35 - free US shipping on orders over $50 and no tax. Agnes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 20 06:06:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01323 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 06:06:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKB78Yb001340; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKB70iR005269; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAKB6liR005189 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 28388 invoked by uid 0); 20 Nov 2002 11:06:41 -0000 Received: from p50801714.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (80.128.23.20) by mail.gmx.net (mp017-rz3) with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 11:06:41 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3DC3D1D4.3080900@99main.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:06:41 +0100 Status: RO Well, I am now the proud owner of the Catalog - and it is wonderful!!! I also signed up for the course this weekend to make the men's Lederkoller - but they called me yesterday and told me it was canceled because only 4 people (including me) had signed up for it - I was quite miffed :((( but they have moved my reservation to the January class. BTW this catalog also includes several patterns in the back (hand-drawn patterns by Johannes Pietsch, a textile restaurer from around here, ie Munich). I have scanned them in for your viewing pleasure :) http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum4.html Please note (for SCA people especially), the Suedtirol men's jacket from 1610 looks exactly like the jacket worn in Der Schneider from 1560-1570. The rest of the catalog is full of really yummy things like scans of different brocades, gloves, lace, tapestries, a knitted jacket, a bunch of Leinenquasten (linen tassles - very ornate), lace collar frames, bags, and other various clothing articles and accessories. I would scan them all in but some how I think the Museum wouldn't like it that much... Cass :) > Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > >> It is in German, but someone translated some of it. >> >> "Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque" >> at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from >> Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed > >> There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos are >> well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark >> exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00. >> (I'll try to get more information aboud this book) > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 20 09:33:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02278 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:33:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKEX5Yb008851; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 07:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKEX1iR023052; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 07:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKEWYiR022918 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 07:32:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gAKEWWXK022224 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:32:32 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] RenFaire doublet on Ebay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:32:32 -0500 (EST) Status: RO The maker of this doublet just posted this to the 18th c. women's list. I thought I'd repost it here, in case someone is interested: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=982948729 Note: I don't know the seller personally, and I'm NOT vouching for its authenticity or anything! (I mean, hey, it's corduroy...) But there are probably worse things out there :) -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 20 12:36:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03178 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:36:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKHa9BJ008141; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKHa2ug018741; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAKHZAug018212 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:35:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWnj00pbFK5Tp8gMlDdNsnZ3vx4KZ3p0VVw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HH3XBNW5; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:34:47 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] RenFaire doublet on Ebay Message-ID: <20021120.123507.-416131.4.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:34:53 -0500 Status: RO Too bad she couldn't get someone to model it. It had to be a lot of work for such a low starting bid. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 20 15:00:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03875 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:00:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKK0ZBJ022279; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:00:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKK0Vug007211; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKJxfug006701 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021120195936.VDYA2204.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ>; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:59:36 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: , , , "'Lydia K Koeller'" , Message-ID: <000101c2908f$793cdc70$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] On C-14 dating of Greenland gowns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 07:22:15 -0500 Status: RO For those who may be interested, there is an excellent article C14 dating of the Greenland gowns available by going to the Europhysics News website, clicking on 'Past Issues', and then looking for Vol. 33, No. 3, (2002). http://www.europhysicsnews.com Linda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 20 16:44:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04382 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:44:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKLg9BJ008195; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:42:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKLg0ug005968; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f111.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKLf2ug005393 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:40:57 -0800 Received: from 65.70.197.155 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:40:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.70.197.155] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2002 21:40:57.0709 (UTC) FILETIME=[82D6E9D0:01C290DD] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:40:57 +0000 Status: RO Maybe I missed it, but how could I get my hands on a copy of this catalog? Mary/Katerine (who is once again buying books for the pictures!) >Well, I am now the proud owner of the Catalog - and it is wonderful!!! I >also signed up for the course this weekend to make the men's Lederkoller - >but they called me yesterday and told me it was canceled because only 4 >people (including me) had signed up for it - I was quite miffed :((( but >they have moved my reservation to the January class. > >BTW this catalog also includes several patterns in the back (hand-drawn >patterns by Johannes Pietsch, a textile restaurer from around here, ie >Munich). I have scanned them in for your viewing pleasure :) > >http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum4.html > >Please note (for SCA people especially), the Suedtirol men's jacket from >1610 looks exactly like the jacket worn in Der Schneider from 1560-1570. > >The rest of the catalog is full of really yummy things like scans of >different brocades, gloves, lace, tapestries, a knitted jacket, a bunch of >Leinenquasten (linen tassles - very ornate), lace collar frames, bags, and >other various clothing articles and accessories. I would scan them all in >but some how I think the Museum wouldn't like it that much... > >Cass :) > > > > Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > > > >> It is in German, but someone translated some of it. > >> > >> "Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque" > >> at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from > >> Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed > > > >> There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos >are > >> well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark > >> exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00. > >> (I'll try to get more information aboud this book) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 20 18:18:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05095 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:18:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKNI2BJ016696; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKNI1tr026523; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAKNH0tr026028 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.24]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0H5W00H44E0BT4@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:16:59 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] RenFaire doublet on Ebay In-reply-to: <20021120.123507.-416131.4.catpurson@juno.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021120151249.00ca9190@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:13:45 -0800 Status: RO > Too bad she couldn't get someone to model it. It had to be a lot >of work for such a low starting bid. Yeah. It looks pretty good flat, but it would look better round. too bad it's corduroy - nobody at my local Faire gets to wear corduroy. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 20 20:06:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05804 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:06:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL16ABJ025125; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:06:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL161S0011175; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web12005.mail.yahoo.com (web12005.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.213]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAL14wS0010761 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:04:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021121010458.80711.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.221.225.235] by web12005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:04:58 PST From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] what's a Spanish tassel dress? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:04:58 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Bella, I know you're looking for a scan out of the Medieval Women calendar. Could you share when you find a copy? You've really piqued my curiousity with the phrase tassel dress. Cassandra (who's children buy her tassels for every gift giving occasion) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Nov 20 20:35:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05965 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:35:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL1a3BJ027188; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL1a1S0020834; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20209.mail.yahoo.com (web20209.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAL1ZqS0020770 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:35:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021121013551.18970.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:35:51 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] what's a Spanish tassel dress? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021121010458.80711.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:35:51 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Cascio Michael wrote: > Bella, > I know you're looking for a scan out of the > Medieval Women calendar. Could you share when you > find a copy? You've really piqued my curiousity > with > the phrase tassel dress. Sure. Actually, a friend on another list scanned the image and enlarged the figure, then uploaded it to her site.... Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:05:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06751 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:05:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL556pk007065; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:05:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL551S0022654; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADCc6U3006805 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 05:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18BwmT-0005mw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 04:38:05 -0800 Message-ID: <3DD24614.5030104@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Happy Dance Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:31:16 -0500 Status: RO I just couldn't help myself, I have to bubble somewhere! *poing* *poing* *poing* A german friend of mine convinced his mother to do me a lace piece for Christmas...he says she calls it some sort of collar and it is 16th or 17th century pattern. Not certain what I am getting, but I will probably need to have help identifying it's time period and what clothing it goes with - so I can try to make an outfit to go with it ;-) margali [who sent Bjarne's URL to him to show her ;-) ] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:05:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06759 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:05:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL561pk007116; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL560S0022905; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.istop.com (ns.istop.com [66.11.168.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gADFxgt8014775 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (ip46-170.ott.dsl.istop.com [66.11.170.46]) by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848CB17071 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:59:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18BzvU-0006cV-00 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:59:36 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan shoes In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:59:36 -0500 Status: RO Janet asked: > Usually, I don't do anything later than Tudor, but I found a really nice > "camp" (cotton) Elizabethan dress being sold as used garb at a reasonable > price. Now that the alterations are mostly done and I contemplate wearing > it next weekend, I realize I have no idea of what kind of shoes would be > appropriate. I'm not going to custom-made shoes for 1 dress - does anyone > have any thoughts on available modern shoes that would look okay? I'd just wear whatever you wear for Tudor. It's not likely you'd find a close match for Elizabethan shoes at Payless or anywhere like that. If you don't have anything at all, I'd suggest cheap black mary-janes (those shoes with the bar across your foot, that fastens with a buckle). More accurate for Flemish or earlier Tudor than for Elizabethan per se, but if you're talking about the SCA (and I realise you might not be) then they'll probably suffice. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:15:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06776 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:14:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5F9pk007696; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5F9S0025257; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAECTiPH002188 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18CJ7v-00027S-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:29:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3DD3955D.90305@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,pattern stuff References: <106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc@aol.com> <003f01c28b2e$cb8a7340$9d02e10c@attbi.com> <023301c28baf$49cffba0$03197644@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:21:49 -0500 Status: RO oops, mtraber25@earthlink.NET not com....still getting used to it;-( shavaylah wrote: > Please add another copy for shavaylah@charter.net > > > > > Linda J. Thompson wrote: > > > Cassandra, > > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I > got a > > handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern > using the > > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it > > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I > > remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely > complicated, > > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list > > together and send them all at once. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:15:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06784 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:15:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FMpk007741; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FLS0025347; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.istop.com (ns.istop.com [66.11.168.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ4DlHV024577 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:13:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (ip46-170.ott.dsl.istop.com [66.11.170.46]) by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEA817285 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:13:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18Dzli-0003RV-00 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:13:46 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Mary gown In-Reply-To: <200211171245.05678.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <000101c28e57$419d4500$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <200211171245.05678.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:13:46 -0500 Status: RO Cathy wrote: > On Sunday 17 November 2002 11:34 am, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > >> I'd agree with Margo that it is more likely a partlet. I am interested >> also in anyone's thoughts on the construction of the collar/ruff. Is >> that a jeweled "choker" or is it elaborate embroidery on the gown >> (chemise?). Not the partlet collar. > > I think it's both--elaborate blackwork on the (high) collar of the chemise, > with a red and gold carcanet worn over the collar. I'm going to claim some knowledge, not because I have any particular expertise, but because it's my website that has this picture, and I've thought about it a bit previously :) If you go up a directory level to http://infotrope.net/sca/textiles/costume/pemberton/ you'll see that I am using the portrait of Mary as corroborating evidence for how to do Mrs Pemberton's outfit, which we see less of in the picture. If we put the Pemberton and the Mary together, I think we can reasonably safely say that it is in fact a partlet, probably black velvet lined with white and stiffened so it stands up, with a white shirt underneath. There are a bunch of pictures from around the same period at, um, *checks bookmarks*, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/ which should provide you with more hints. K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:15:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06785 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:15:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FEpk007708; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FDS0025294; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAEGu31H011226 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from BluBeavPub@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 7.14d.17561221 (3996) for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:55:55 -0500 (EST) From: BluBeavPub@aol.com Message-ID: <14d.17561221.2b052f9b@aol.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14d.17561221.2b052f9b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10618 Subject: [h-cost] Cassack Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:55:55 EST Status: RO --part1_14d.17561221.2b052f9b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm in need of a pattern for or a ready-made Cassock for a Catholic Father. Anyone have any suggestions? --part1_14d.17561221.2b052f9b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm in need of a pattern for or a ready-made Cassock for a Catholic Father.  Anyone have any suggestions? --part1_14d.17561221.2b052f9b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:15:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06791 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:15:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FIpk007726; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FIS0025325; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIJdtk8007095 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:39:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA04496 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:39:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000801c28f3a$789067c0$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <006a01c28ea3$b12376a0$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C28F08.2D713760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:41:20 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C28F08.2D713760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes I just ordered mine off B&N.com. It is called Evolution in Fashion = there and is $32.00. Order it this week if you have a B&N membership = card and you get an extra 5% off so standard shipping is almost free. Got a copy of the Dec ELLE mag yesterday. In their Calendar page get a = gander of the late 1880's early 1890's gown pictured. It is part of the = Femme Fatale exhibition opening at the Fashion Institute of Technology = in NYC Dec 15th. Late 19th c fashion mavens take note and let the rest = of us know if an exhibition catalog is available! Cindy Abel ILL Coordinator Health Sciences Library Creighton University 1912 CALIFORNIA ST OMAHA NE 68178-0210 VOICE: 402.280.5144 FAX: 402.280.5134 brujne@creighton.edu 1912 CALIFORNIA ST OMAHA NE 68178-0210 VOICE:402-280-5144 FAX: 402-280-5134 brujne@creighton.edu Omaha NE 68178-0210 Phone: 402. 280-5144 Fax: 402.280-5134 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kendra Van Cleave=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:42 PM Subject: [h-cost] New Kyoto Costume Institute book Oh my god, it's the motherlode! There's a new book out called "Fashion: A History from the 18th to = the 20th Century" that features the collection of the Kyoto Costume = Institute. =20 This book is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! It's 768 pages (I swear, it's a = phone book!) and practically every page is a gorgeous, glossy, full = color photo of a costume from the KCI's amazing costume collection. = There's 4 chapters on the 18th, 19th, first half of the 20th, and second = half of the 20th centuries, and they each take up roughly 1/4 of the = book. Best of all, this book reprints many images (it might even be all of = them, I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in Fashion" and "Evolution = of Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of those, here's your = chance. Even better? It's only $40. = http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3822812064//qid=3D103758328= 0/sr=3D1-1/ref=3Dsr_1_1/104-4464235-5172711?v=3Dglance&s=3Dbooks&vi=3Dpic= tures Click on "See More Pictures" (under the book cover photo) for scans = from the book. - Kendra ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C28F08.2D713760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes I just ordered mine off B&N.com.  It is = called=20 Evolution in Fashion there and is $32.00. Order it this week if you have = a=20 B&N membership card and you get an extra 5% off so standard shipping = is=20 almost free.
 
Got a copy of the Dec ELLE mag yesterday.  In = their=20 Calendar page get a gander of the late 1880's early 1890's gown = pictured. It is=20 part of the Femme Fatale exhibition opening at the Fashion Institute of=20 Technology in NYC Dec 15th.  Late 19th c fashion mavens take note = and let=20 the rest of us know if an exhibition catalog is available!
Cindy Abel
ILL Coordinator
Health Sciences = Library
Creighton=20 University
1912 CALIFORNIA ST
OMAHA NE 68178-0210
VOICE:=20 402.280.5144
FAX: 402.280.5134
brujne@creighton.edu
1912 = CALIFORNIA=20 ST
OMAHA NE 68178-0210
VOICE:402-280-5144
FAX:  =20 402-280-5134
brujne@creighton.edu
Omaha = NE=20 68178-0210
Phone: 402. 280-5144
Fax:    =20 402.280-5134
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kendra = Van=20 Cleave
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 = 7:42=20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] New Kyoto = Costume=20 Institute book

Oh my god, it's the = motherlode!
 
There's a new book out called = "Fashion:  A=20 History from the 18th to the 20th Century" that features the = collection of the=20 Kyoto Costume Institute. 
 
This book is ABSOLUTELY = AMAZING!  It's 768=20 pages (I swear, it's a phone book!) and practically every page is a = gorgeous,=20 glossy, full color photo of a costume from the KCI's amazing costume=20 collection.  There's 4 = chapters on the=20 18th, 19th, first half of the 20th, and second half of the 20th = centuries, and=20 they each take up roughly 1/4 of the book.
 
Best of all, this book reprints many = images (it=20 might even be all of them, I'm not positive) from the "Revolution in = Fashion"=20 and "Evolution of Fashion" books, so if you ever wanted either of = those,=20 here's your chance.
 
Even better?  It's only = $40.
 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3822= 812064//qid=3D1037583280/sr=3D1-1/ref=3Dsr_1_1/104-4464235-5172711?v=3Dgl= ance&s=3Dbooks&vi=3Dpictures
Click on "See More Pictures" (under = the book=20 cover photo) for scans from the book.
 
- Kendra
 
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C28F08.2D713760-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:15:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06795 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:15:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FQpk007770; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FPS0025377; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJItQWU012776 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:55:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA24664 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:55:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001e01c28ffd$75b21c60$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <6d.268db3c.2b0a9598@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Kyoto Costume Book/1836 dress update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C28FCB.2AA9CF60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:57:07 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C28FCB.2AA9CF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I ordered mine from bn.com. Their price is $32.00 with an extra 10% = off(through Nov 24) for those with a B&N membership card. Standard = shipping is $3.99(no extra as with Amazon for a heavier book). The title = on the B&N book is Evolution of Fashion but the number of pages and the = ISBN # is the same as the Amazon book entitled "Fashion". Well, I'll = know if I got the correct book when it arrives. I got "Revolution in Fashion" years ago and saw the original "Evolution = in Fashion" but it will be great to have three centuries of costume in = one volume. Cindy Abel ILL Coordinator Health Sciences Library Creighton University 1912 CALIFORNIA ST OMAHA NE 68178-0210 VOICE: 402.280.5144 FAX: 402.280.5134 brujne@creighton.edu ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C28FCB.2AA9CF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I ordered mine from bn.com.  Their price is = $32.00 with=20 an extra 10% off(through Nov 24) for those with a B&N membership = card. =20 Standard shipping is $3.99(no extra as with Amazon for a heavier book). = The=20 title on the B&N book is Evolution of Fashion but the number of = pages and=20 the ISBN # is the same as the Amazon book entitled "Fashion". Well, I'll = know if=20 I got the correct book when it arrives.
 
I got "Revolution in Fashion" years ago and saw the = original=20 "Evolution in Fashion" but it will be great to have three centuries of = costume=20 in one volume.
Cindy Abel
ILL Coordinator
Health Sciences = Library
Creighton=20 University
1912 CALIFORNIA ST
OMAHA NE 68178-0210
VOICE:=20 402.280.5144
FAX: 402.280.5134
brujne@creighton.edu
  ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C28FCB.2AA9CF60-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:18:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06804 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FVpk007784; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5FUS0025415; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20203.mail.yahoo.com (web20203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAL1ZNS0020584 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:35:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021121013522.18168.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:35:22 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] what's a Spanish tassel dress? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021121010458.80711.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-211675633-1037842522=:17731" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:35:22 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --0-211675633-1037842522=:17731 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline --- Cascio Michael wrote: > Bella, > I know you're looking for a scan out of the > Medieval Women calendar. Could you share when you > find a copy? You've really piqued my curiousity > with > the phrase tassel dress. Sure. Actually, a friend on another list scanned the image and enlarged the figure, then uploaded it to her site.... Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! 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2002 00:25:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5F2pk007683; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5F1S0025223; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAECTGPH002108 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:29:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from 201-46-168-66.wl.cpe.charter-ne.com ([66.168.46.201] helo=Spamcop.Net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18CJ7U-0001kn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:29:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3DD3953E.5010907@Spamcop.Net> From: M Traber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,pattern stuff References: <106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc@aol.com> <003f01c28b2e$cb8a7340$9d02e10c@attbi.com> <023301c28baf$49cffba0$03197644@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:21:18 -0500 Status: RO and another for me, if it isn't too late? Pretty PLease? margali mtraber251@earthlink.com gets through best. Linda J. Thompson wrote: > > > Cassandra, > > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I > got a > > handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern > using the > > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it > > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I > > remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely > complicated, > > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list > > together and send them all at once. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:30:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06838 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:30:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5V2pk008682; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5V1S0029496; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAL5UXS0029328 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCvf821tANoAjD3SvRqEQYgxsBrWjisUtkQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HH478TMN; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:29:46 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021120.232846.-242457103.5.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,12-13,33-35 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Medici Report Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:28:46 -0600 Status: RO As some of you may remember, some of my friends and I were asked to go to the Art Institute of Chicago and perform Italian Renaissance Dance in conjunction with the Medici exhibit. Our dancing went over well, but afterwards we had come time before the museum was set to close so we all trooped up to the exhibit to see the Eleanora de Toldedo portrait. And did I mention we went in full Court Elizabethans? It was great, both seeing the portrait life size and in full color ( the detail is incredible!) and watching the other patrons reaction to us being in the galleries. At one point we were all clustered around the portrait oohing and ahhing over the amazing gown, when we kinda looked around and noticed that all the patrons had moved off to one side and were watching US looking at the portrait. I can really recommend the exhibit to anyone who was considering coming to Chiago to see it or whomight catch it at another venue. I've said for a long time that there's no subsitute for seeing the portaits in person, and it's very true. The details and colors in the originals just aren't captured in even the best published reproductions. Also, they have a bishop's cope and mitre made of cloth of gold with amazing polychrome silk (?) appplique edged with gold couching. Just amazing!!! And they have a piece of cut velvet made up as a hanging/drapery of some sort in wine colored velvet on an ivory ground with just a suggestion of metallic gold. Wow! They also have a number of other period portraits that are less well known than the Eleanora. I have plans to go back (in civvies) and spend a good deal more time in the exhibit, it's certainly worth it. And there's a couple of lucious coffe table size books with tons of information on the artwork and repros (in detail) of most of the paintings as well as several that aren't in the exhibit but which are good, seldom seen portraits. What really got my attention was that they have repros of the Elearnora portrait all framed and ready to hang! They are about 11X14, which is significantly smaller than the original, but larger than most book repros. None of this is cheap of course, either don't bring your credit card or make sure you have lots of space on it! Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 00:41:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06874 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:41:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5g2pk009228; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5g0S0002365; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL5f7S0002137 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:41:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from JAzo478796@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.4c.14ad088e (3866) for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:40:53 -0500 (EST) From: JAzo478796@aol.com Message-ID: <4c.14ad088e.2b0dcbe5@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_4c.14ad088e.2b0dcbe5_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10577 Subject: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:40:53 EST Status: RO --part1_4c.14ad088e.2b0dcbe5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody know of any costumed medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes in the New York area? Not really looking for bawdy SCA activities, maybe something a bit more serious, academic or arts-based. Something quiet and contemplative. Thanks for any leads! -Julia --part1_4c.14ad088e.2b0dcbe5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody know of any costumed medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes in the New York area?  Not really looking for bawdy SCA activities, maybe something a bit more serious, academic or arts-based.  Something quiet and contemplative.
Thanks for any leads!
-Julia --part1_4c.14ad088e.2b0dcbe5_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 02:03:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08223 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:03:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL742pk012823; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL741S0022241; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL73XS0022137 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:03:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23139 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 07:03:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.246.74]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 21 Nov 2002 07:03:32 -0000 Message-ID: <00c701c2912c$1ad4afd0$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: <4c.14ad088e.2b0dcbe5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C29102.31D61130" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:03:33 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C29102.31D61130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have you looked into the MSR? They are a smaller group that splintered = from the SCA over a decade ago. They allow religion (even go so far as = to have a "bishop" annoint the "king"). =20 They tend to be more serious. If they are not what you are looking for, = they may have a further lead. Lyn Greaves ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JAzo478796@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 12:40 AM Subject: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes Anybody know of any costumed medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes = in the New York area? Not really looking for bawdy SCA activities, = maybe something a bit more serious, academic or arts-based. Something = quiet and contemplative.=20 Thanks for any leads!=20 -Julia ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C29102.31D61130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Have you looked into the MSR?  = They are a=20 smaller group that splintered from the SCA over a decade ago.  They = allow=20 religion (even go so far as to have a "bishop" annoint the = "king"). =20
 
They tend to be more serious.  If = they are not=20 what you are looking for, they may have a further lead.
 
 
Lyn Greaves

 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JAzo478796@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 21, = 2002 12:40=20 AM
Subject: [h-cost] = medieval/renaissance=20 dance groups/classes

Anybody = know of any=20 costumed medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes in the New York = area?=20  Not really looking for bawdy SCA activities, maybe something a = bit more=20 serious, academic or arts-based.  Something quiet and = contemplative.=20
Thanks for any leads!
-Julia = ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C29102.31D61130-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 03:04:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA32134 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:04:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL852pk014534; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL850S0005854; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20207.mail.yahoo.com (web20207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAL84pS0005822 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:04:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021121080451.23080.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:04:51 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4c.14ad088e.2b0dcbe5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:04:51 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- JAzo478796@aol.com wrote: >Not really looking for bawdy SCA > activities, maybe something > a bit more serious, academic or arts-based. Hi there, could you please explain what you mean by this statement, specifically the bawdy bit. Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 03:25:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09584 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:25:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL8Q6pk015194; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:26:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL8Q1S0010425; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40004.mail.yahoo.com (web40004.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAL8P6S0010190 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:25:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021121082501.26885.qmail@web40004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:25:01 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021120190011.5581.71138.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1461 - 17 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:25:01 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Dear Cass, Is there any chance of you posting more detail on this catalogue. As I am in the Uk postage from Germany really isn't exccesive and I would love to have a copy of the catalogue. Does the museum have a website where I could order it from? Many Thanks Rachel > --__--__-- > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:06:41 +0100 > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) > From: Cassandra Greer > To: > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > Well, I am now the proud owner of the Catalog - and it is wonderful!!! I > also signed up for the course this weekend to make the men's Lederkoller - > but they called me yesterday and told me it was canceled because only 4 > people (including me) had signed up for it - I was quite miffed :((( but > they have moved my reservation to the January class. > > BTW this catalog also includes several patterns in the back (hand-drawn > patterns by Johannes Pietsch, a textile restaurer from around here, ie > Munich). I have scanned them in for your viewing pleasure :) > > http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum4.html > > Please note (for SCA people especially), the Suedtirol men's jacket from > 1610 looks exactly like the jacket worn in Der Schneider from 1560-1570. > > The rest of the catalog is full of really yummy things like scans of > different brocades, gloves, lace, tapestries, a knitted jacket, a bunch of > Leinenquasten (linen tassles - very ornate), lace collar frames, bags, and > other various clothing articles and accessories. I would scan them all in > but some how I think the Museum wouldn't like it that much... > > Cass :) > > > > Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: > > > >> It is in German, but someone translated some of it. > >> > >> "Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque" > >> at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from > >> Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed > > > >> There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos are > >> well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark > >> exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00. > >> (I'll try to get more information aboud this book) > > ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 04:02:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13788 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 04:02:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL932pk016580; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL931S0017517; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAL920S0017313 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id gAL94a028734.; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:04:36 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:01:59 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RenFaire doublet on Ebay Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAL920S0017313 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:01:27 +0000 Status: RO Looks like quite a nice 1630s/40s doublet to me, but I wonder what is "unique" about the trim, which seems to be a bog-standard braid. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> lindo@Radix.Net 11/20/02 02:32pm >>> The maker of this doublet just posted this to the 18th c. women's list. I thought I'd repost it here, in case someone is interested: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=982948729 Note: I don't know the seller personally, and I'm NOT vouching for its authenticity or anything! (I mean, hey, it's corduroy...) But there are probably worse things out there :) -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 04:59:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21541 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 04:59:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALA02pk018261; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALA00S0028686; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAL9xBS0028457 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:59:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 30162 invoked by uid 0); 21 Nov 2002 09:59:04 -0000 Received: from pd958fc72.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.88.252.114) by mail.gmx.net (mp014-rz3) with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 09:59:04 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:59:03 +0100 Status: RO Well you could talk to me about it - the problem is getting this book from here to you (wherever you are - I assume the States? I live here in Munich. Cass :) > Maybe I missed it, but how could I get my hands on a copy of this catalog? > > Mary/Katerine > (who is once again buying books for the pictures!) > >> Well, I am now the proud owner of the Catalog - and it is wonderful!!! I >> also signed up for the course this weekend to make the men's Lederkoller - >> but they called me yesterday and told me it was canceled because only 4 >> people (including me) had signed up for it - I was quite miffed :((( but >> they have moved my reservation to the January class. >> >> BTW this catalog also includes several patterns in the back (hand-drawn >> patterns by Johannes Pietsch, a textile restaurer from around here, ie >> Munich). I have scanned them in for your viewing pleasure :) >> >> http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum4.html >> >> Please note (for SCA people especially), the Suedtirol men's jacket from >> 1610 looks exactly like the jacket worn in Der Schneider from 1560-1570. >> >> The rest of the catalog is full of really yummy things like scans of >> different brocades, gloves, lace, tapestries, a knitted jacket, a bunch of >> Leinenquasten (linen tassles - very ornate), lace collar frames, bags, and >> other various clothing articles and accessories. I would scan them all in >> but some how I think the Museum wouldn't like it that much... >> >> Cass :) >> >> >>> Deredere & Owen Iskander wrote: >>> >>>> It is in German, but someone translated some of it. >>>> >>>> "Textile Treasures from Renaissance and Baroque" >>>> at the 'Bayerisches Nationalmuseum' until February 16th, 2003, from >>>> Tuesdays to Sundays 10 - 17, Thursdays 10 - 20. Mondays closed >>> >>>> There is also a wounderfull publication for the exhibiton. The fotos >> are >>>> well done, you can see the colors and details better than in the dark >>>> exhibition room! It costs EUR 25,00. >>>> (I'll try to get more information aboud this book) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 05:22:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21615 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:22:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALAN3pk018870; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALAN2S0001104; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f4.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALAMPS0000985 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:22:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:17:56 -0800 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:17:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2002 10:17:56.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[425334D0:01C29147] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:17:55 -0800 Status: RO I think maybe you've just been playing with the wrong niche in the SCA. I know nothing about New York, but I know there are several dance groups on the west coast who are very serious about the authenticity not only of their costume, but the steps and ettiquette of period dancing. You just need to find like minded dancers. Kind of like the difference between ballroom dancing and swing. Both real dance schools with all the practice, effort and rules of the dance, but in the end they present a different feel when performed. Neither is better or worse, just different. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! Not really looking for bawdy SCA activities, maybe something >a bit more serious, academic or arts-based. Something quiet and >contemplative. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 05:30:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21656 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:30:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALAVVpk019119; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:31:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALAV1S0002844; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gALAUQS0002728 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:30:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021121103026.57345.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:30:26 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:30:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Cassandra Greer wrote: > Well you could talk to me about it - the problem is getting this book from > here to you (wherever you are - I assume the States? I live here in Munich. > > Cass :) Cass, I'll visit my parents over Christmas (Germany) so that wouldn't be a problem, but if you could post the address, and if possible URL and exact info onthe catalogue of the museum, I am sure they will simply send it to anyone. They do that sort of thing, I don't think there is the need of a 'Mittelsmann'. Nicole - who wants that catalogue too, after all, german clothes, hey, call it roots. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 09:41:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22695 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:41:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALEf3pk028933; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALEf0S0026697; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gALEecS0026538 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:40:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5134 invoked by uid 0); 21 Nov 2002 14:40:32 -0000 Received: from pd958fc72.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.88.252.114) by mail.gmx.net (mp020-rz3) with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 14:40:32 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021121103026.57345.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:40:32 +0100 Status: RO HI Nicole! Here's the web page for the Ausstellung: http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/e/e.htm I could only find the info for ordering the catalog in the brochure, only a telephone number: +49 (89) 21124-296 Here's the link for the info on the Museum itself: http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/f/f.htm I plan to actually go to the Ausstellung on Sunday so I can also see if I can find out more info about ordering the catalog (like if there are shipping costs...) Cass :) > --- Cassandra Greer wrote: > Well you could talk to me > about it - the problem is getting this book from >> here to you (wherever you are - I assume the States? I live here in Munich. >> >> Cass :) > > Cass, I'll visit my parents over Christmas (Germany) so that wouldn't be a > problem, but if you could post the address, and if possible URL and exact info > onthe catalogue of the museum, I am sure they will simply send it to anyone. > They do that sort of thing, I don't think there is the need of a > 'Mittelsmann'. > > Nicole - who wants that catalogue too, after all, german clothes, hey, call it > roots. > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 10:12:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22827 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:12:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALFC2pk001171; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALFC1S0007016; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALFBbS0006820 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fda.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.218]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3F813480230 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:11:36 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000801c29170$69f2a6f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:12:31 +0100 Status: RO Hi. I emailed the museum and asked if it was possible to order a catalog with a credit card. Unfortunately they only receive checks. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cassandra Greer" To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) > HI Nicole! > > Here's the web page for the Ausstellung: > http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/e/e.htm > > I could only find the info for ordering the catalog in the brochure, only a > telephone number: +49 (89) 21124-296 > > Here's the link for the info on the Museum itself: > http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/f/f.htm > > I plan to actually go to the Ausstellung on Sunday so I can also see if I > can find out more info about ordering the catalog (like if there are > shipping costs...) > > Cass :) > > > --- Cassandra Greer wrote: > Well you could talk to me > > about it - the problem is getting this book from > >> here to you (wherever you are - I assume the States? I live here in Munich. > >> > >> Cass :) > > > > Cass, I'll visit my parents over Christmas (Germany) so that wouldn't be a > > problem, but if you could post the address, and if possible URL and exact info > > onthe catalogue of the museum, I am sure they will simply send it to anyone. > > They do that sort of thing, I don't think there is the need of a > > 'Mittelsmann'. > > > > Nicole - who wants that catalogue too, after all, german clothes, hey, call it > > roots. > > > > ===== > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 10:49:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23117 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:49:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALFnEpk004240; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALFnDS0022098; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gALFmkS0021872 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:48:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26617 invoked by uid 0); 21 Nov 2002 15:48:40 -0000 Received: from pd958fc72.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.88.252.114) by mail.gmx.net (mp021-rz3) with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 15:48:40 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000801c29170$69f2a6f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:48:40 +0100 Status: RO And that would be European checks which are nothing like American checks. And they probably meant the Check Card to (it's basically a European debit card). Credit cards at public museums in Germany normally aren't accepted (probably because of the credit institution charge of like 2.5% - the museums need all the money they can get). At any rate I will find out about shipping. I am willing to buy books and send them for people if necessary but I would definitely need to be reimbursed because I am not rich (as if any of us were..) Unfortunately I don't know when my next chance to go to the States will be. PS I realized I forgot to put dates on those pictures on my site: They are all around 1610-1640 in that range, ergo not SCA except for the one jacket that looks almost exactly like the one worn in Der Schneider (which is 1560-70). http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum4.html Cass :) > Hi. > I emailed the museum and asked if it was possible to order a catalog with a > credit card. > Unfortunately they only receive checks. > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cassandra Greer" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 3:40 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exebition 16th-17th century clothing Munchen(Germany) > > >> HI Nicole! >> >> Here's the web page for the Ausstellung: >> http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/e/e.htm >> >> I could only find the info for ordering the catalog in the brochure, only > a >> telephone number: +49 (89) 21124-296 >> >> Here's the link for the info on the Museum itself: >> http://www.bayerisches-nationalmuseum.de/Win/f/f.htm >> >> I plan to actually go to the Ausstellung on Sunday so I can also see if I >> can find out more info about ordering the catalog (like if there are >> shipping costs...) >> >> Cass :) >> >>> --- Cassandra Greer wrote: > Well you could talk to > me >>> about it - the problem is getting this book from >>>> here to you (wherever you are - I assume the States? I live here in > Munich. >>>> >>>> Cass :) >>> >>> Cass, I'll visit my parents over Christmas (Germany) so that wouldn't be > a >>> problem, but if you could post the address, and if possible URL and > exact info >>> onthe catalogue of the museum, I am sure they will simply send it to > anyone. >>> They do that sort of thing, I don't think there is the need of a >>> 'Mittelsmann'. >>> >>> Nicole - who wants that catalogue too, after all, german clothes, hey, > call it >>> roots. >>> >>> ===== >>> Nicole Kipar M.A. >>> URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >>> Email: nicole@kipar.org >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Everything you'll ever need on one web page >>> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >>> http://uk.my.yahoo.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 11:21:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23359 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:21:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALGL2pk007749; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALGL0S0008194; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALGKBS0007765 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:20:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id IAA01289 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:41:52 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211211641.IAA01289@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Bishop Bob? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:41:52 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Are the photos of Bishop Bob still accessable? I'm not a memeber of the Paternosters group, and I don't seem to be able to get to the photo gallery from the group page. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 11:25:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23384 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:25:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALGQ2pk008285; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALGQ1S0010954; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALGPHS0010555 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id IAA01320 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:46:58 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200211211646.IAA01320@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] belay that Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:46:58 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Yahoo must've burped. I can get to the gallery now. --Lee _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 12:05:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23594 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:05:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALH42pk012428; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALH40S0002406; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALH32S0001856 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from JAzo478796@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.4d.27bce307 (3874) for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:02:50 -0500 (EST) From: JAzo478796@aol.com Message-ID: <4d.27bce307.2b0e6bba@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_4d.27bce307.2b0e6bba_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10577 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:02:50 EST Status: RO --part1_4d.27bce307.2b0e6bba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What does MSR stand for, please, so I can try to find them? Thanks --part1_4d.27bce307.2b0e6bba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What does MSR stand for, please, so I can try to find them?
Thanks --part1_4d.27bce307.2b0e6bba_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 12:10:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23647 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:10:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALH93pk012960; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALH91S0005088; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALH8OS0004695 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from JAzo478796@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.10.28a62e02 (3874) for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:08:04 -0500 (EST) From: JAzo478796@aol.com Message-ID: <10.28a62e02.2b0e6cf4@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10.28a62e02.2b0e6cf4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10577 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:08:04 EST Status: RO --part1_10.28a62e02.2b0e6cf4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: Defining what I meant about "bawdy SCA events" >From all the SCA posts I've read at SCA sites around the country, there seems to be a real "party attitude" on the part of many of the men, at least - kind of like a medieval Hell's Angels. I see a lot of posts about drinking a lot at the reneactments - basically, getting totally wasted, sexy wenches, etc. It sounds like one big, adolescent party. Maybe I'm just too old for that. --part1_10.28a62e02.2b0e6cf4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re:  Defining what I meant about "bawdy SCA events"
From all the SCA posts I've read at SCA sites around the country, there seems to be a real "party attitude" on the part of many of the men, at least - kind of like a medieval Hell's Angels.  I see a lot of posts about drinking a lot at the reneactments - basically, getting totally wasted, sexy wenches, etc.  It sounds like one big, adolescent party.  Maybe I'm just too old for that. --part1_10.28a62e02.2b0e6cf4_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 12:13:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23666 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:13:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHC3pk013276; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHC1S0006947; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHAIS0005806 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:10:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from JAzo478796@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.60.2952227f (3874) for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:09:55 -0500 (EST) From: JAzo478796@aol.com Message-ID: <60.2952227f.2b0e6d63@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_60.2952227f.2b0e6d63_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10577 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:09:55 EST Status: RO --part1_60.2952227f.2b0e6d63_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RE: I think maybe you've just been playing with the wrong niche in the SCA. I know nothing about New York, but I know there are several dance groups on the west coast who are very serious about the authenticity not only of their costume, but the steps and ettiquette of period dancing. You just need to find like minded dancers. Kind of like the difference between ballroom dancing and swing. Both real dance schools with all the practice, effort and rules of the dance, but in the end they present a different feel when performed. Neither is better or worse, just different. QUESTION: how do I find these serious dance groups? Any suggestions? --part1_60.2952227f.2b0e6d63_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RE:  I think maybe you've just been playing with the wrong niche in the SCA.  I
know nothing about New York, but I know there are several dance groups on
the west coast who are very serious about the authenticity not only of their
costume, but the steps and ettiquette of period dancing.  You just need to
find like minded dancers.  Kind of like the difference between ballroom
dancing and swing.  Both real dance schools with all the practice, effort
and rules of the dance, but in the end they present a different feel when
performed.  Neither is better or worse, just different.


QUESTION:  how do I find these serious dance groups?  Any suggestions? --part1_60.2952227f.2b0e6d63_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 12:16:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23684 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:16:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHErpk013576; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:14:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHEoS0008403; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHBDS0006521 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:11:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gALHBCgv006520 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:11:12 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes Message-ID: <20021121101112.G15829@net.indra.com> References: <4d.27bce307.2b0e6bba@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4d.27bce307.2b0e6bba@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:11:12 -0700 Status: RO http://www.markland.org ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 12:19:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23703 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:19:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHI2pk013908; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHI1S0010145; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHGTS0009337 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gALHGTq1009336 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:16:29 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes Message-ID: <20021121101629.H15829@net.indra.com> References: <10.28a62e02.2b0e6cf4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <10.28a62e02.2b0e6cf4@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:16:29 -0700 Status: RO On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 12:08:04PM -0500, JAzo478796@aol.com wrote: >From all the SCA posts I've read at SCA sites around the country, >there seems to be a real "party attitude" on the part of many of the >men As with any group, you are going to get hits and misses in conduct. In my experience, bad conduct is in the definite minority for re-creation groups. Please take any further discussion about this off the list, as it's not on topic for h-costume. ...eliz, list admin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 12:43:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23865 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:43:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHh3pk016795; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHh0S0023767; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from infoblvd.net (infoblvd.net [216.42.64.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHgqS0023681 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:42:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from straight [216.42.67.35] by infoblvd.net (SMTPD32-7.12) id AB1C5A3E012E; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:42:52 -0500 Message-ID: <00a901c29187$539b62e0$23432ad8@infoblvd.net> From: "STRAIGHT " To: References: <106.1b4d2290.2b03d0cc@aol.com> <003f01c28b2e$cb8a7340$9d02e10c@attbi.com> <023301c28baf$49cffba0$03197644@charter.net> <3DD3953E.5010907@Spamcop.Net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] tired of re-enacting,pattern stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:42:41 -0500 Status: RO I'd like one too, please. Been lurking a lot, mostly because of computer problems. Seems to be working now. Diane Straight (straight@infoblvd.net) Linda J. Thompson wrote: > > > Cassandra, > > When I took my pattern drafting classes at the rep years ago, I > got a > > handout that showed a method of upsizing a standard pattern > using the > > industry calculation method for it. If you would like I will scan it > > and send it to you as an attachment to your private email. If I > > remember it is about 2 or three pages. Was not extremely > complicated, > > and is more accurate than the split and spread method. > > > > If any on else wants a copy, send me email and I will get a list > > together and send them all at once. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 12:57:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24030 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:57:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHq8pk017814; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHq2S0028952; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHpoS0028842 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:51:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-1-228.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.1.228] helo=dan) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18EvUT-00071A-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:51:49 +0000 Message-ID: <006401c29187$30af4300$e40124d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <14d.17561221.2b052f9b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cassack MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:55:33 -0000 Status: RO > I'm in need of a pattern for or a ready-made Cassock for a Catholic Father. > Anyone have any suggestions? > Butterick Patterns' website has a couple of Clergy robe patterns included in their 'Costumes' section; see one for example http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?search=&TI=100 13&UK=20358384&M=&pageSize=9&s.nextPage.28.x=31&s.nextPage.28.y=13 They are having a half-price sale at the moment; hope this may help. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 13:00:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24058 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:00:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHtEpk018123; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:55:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHtDS0000883; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gALHsDS0000269 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 10378 invoked by uid 1005); 21 Nov 2002 17:54:05 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.169792 secs); 21 Nov 2002 17:54:05 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.169792 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 17:54:05 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20021121124859.C62371-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] making whalebone bones Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:54:08 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Another random spasm of curiosity has struck... Does anyone know of 16th, 17th or 18th c. sources that discuss the actual process of making the whalebone boning that went into stays and corsets? I've looked around, but haven't found a thing in any of my books. Thanks, Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 13:00:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24062 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:00:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALI03pk018642; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALI01S0003443; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx09.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx09.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALHxZS0003168 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:59:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx09.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 30912425 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:59:29 -0500 Message-ID: <008a01c29187$b10c9700$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <20021121013551.18970.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what's a Spanish tassel dress? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:59:08 -0600 Status: RO Looking at this picture, I'm curious about the sleeves. Are they just free-standing bands around the arm? Do they have an opening, or do they slide on? ...thinking that looks *really* cool... ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF So many books, so little time lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 13:09:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24093 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:09:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALI52pk019186; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALI51S0006173; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gALI4ZS0005993 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29917 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 18:04:35 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 18:04:35 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-145.sonic.net [209.148.112.145]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id gALI4Yo12614 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:04:34 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3DDD2082.5EB11A49@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes References: <60.2952227f.2b0e6d63@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:05:54 -0800 Status: RO > > QUESTION: how do I find these serious dance groups? Any > suggestions? The place to find "authentic" historical dance (of any era), with professional instruction, is often The World of Dance rather than The World of Reenactment. You're in New York? Charles Garth, a well-known Renaissance dance instructor, at least used to be based there. Although, I hear he teaches a couple of times a month in Boston. He also seems to teach in various special workshops inside and outside the US. He is president of the Historical Dance Foundation. I can't find an email address for Garth on the net. I did find one for the musician John Tyson, who worked with Garth on a dance music CD. Tyson's email is: TysonTsuru@aol.com. Or you may be able to find Garth directly on the net--I am finding a lot of references to him but no web page for him so far. Or in the New York phone book, if he still lives there and not in Boston. Hope this helps, Fran Grimble -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 13:14:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24118 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:14:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALI7Qpk019443; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALI68S0006742; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALI50S0006150 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-1-228.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.1.228] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18EvhD-0000iw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:04:59 +0000 Message-ID: <006c01c29189$07975320$e40124d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:08:43 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I suspect that the costume patterns are unlikely to satisfy h-costers standards, but they are half-price, and may be worth it if someone needs something vaguely OK by yesterday. http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.list.10013.x =1&UK=20358384 best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 13:16:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24127 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:16:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALICRpk019938; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:12:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALIB2S0009384; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALIArS0009268 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:10:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from JAzo478796@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.54.2bcd5a6 (3874) for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:10:44 -0500 (EST) From: JAzo478796@aol.com Message-ID: <54.2bcd5a6.2b0e7ba3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_54.2bcd5a6.2b0e7ba3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10577 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:10:43 EST Status: RO --part1_54.2bcd5a6.2b0e7ba3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Fran! --part1_54.2bcd5a6.2b0e7ba3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Fran! --part1_54.2bcd5a6.2b0e7ba3_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 14:53:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24700 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:53:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALJr5pk029061; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALJr1S0002667; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from NOAADC-MSW03.NOA.Alcoa.com (noaadc-msw03.noa.alcoa.com [147.154.9.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALJqxS0002610 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:52:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from NOAADC-MXI02.NOA.Alcoa.com (unverified) by NOAADC-MSW03.NOA.Alcoa.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:52:53 -0500 Received: by NOAADC-MXI02.NOA.Alcoa.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:52:51 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance Report #2 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:52:51 -0500 Status: RO I was in Chicago yesterday to attend the exhibit at the Art Institute and was awed. There was a comfortable amount of people appreciating the exhibit and it was truly amazing to see. I was pleased that my daughter and I were able to get up so close and personal to the items -- Eleanora definitely was the most popular lady there! There were numerous guards around, but they were friendly, never once asking me to step back as my nose was only a few inches away from the canvases --I wanted a *close* look at them! Boy, did I get a good look at that gold and silver twisted cord trim on Eleanor's gown and the gold fleur-de-lis on the front. We studied the lace, fabric and colors on them all. One portrait was of a lady in mourning -- all in black and wearing a huge wireframed sheer black veil. Not my period of expertise so I can't explain it in the correct terms, but I think Mary Queen of Scots wore a frame like that. It looked like the top rounded part of a heart shape. Although I don't do costumes from this era, I have always loved the art; and I tried to study each portrait for the costuming details. I saw many pieces from art history and costume books and it was wonderful. Eleanora's portrait is nearly life-sized and we saw that her husband (Cosimo?)looked like an identical twin to my daughter's husband! There were tables and wall pieces from the Medici workshop made of intricate inlaid pieces of semi-precious stone. A gorgeous multi-drawered cabinet for precious items with inlaid work of all kinds of animals. Armor that was almost identical to that in a portrait; terracotta's and statues; a beautiful helmet with applied gold pieces; Micheangelo's crucifix that he was making his brother a few days before he (Micheangelo) died, and much, more. They had little rectangular magnets for $3.99 with Eleanora's portrait, but I bought the book which went along with the exhibit so we could refer to it as we went along. There were lots of other books I'd loved to have had also. Here is the book info, which for the paperback was 39.00 + tax so $42 something: Magificenza! The Medici, Michelangelo, and the Art of the Late Renaissance 2002 Yale University Press Publishers 381 pages ISBN cloth 0-300-09495-7 ISBN paper 0-89558-158-2 Wish that I could have seen Karen and her dance group gathered around THE portrait. I must get back to work so that I can keep my job and pay my credit card bill to buy some more books. If you have a chance to see this exhibit, you WILL NOT be disappointed, if you can't go, I hope you can buy the book or borrow it from your library. Connie E. Fairchild _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 15:12:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24830 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:12:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKC2pk000714; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKC1S0012109; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKBDS0011670 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:11:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gALKBBXK007401 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:11:12 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Grumble -- sloper Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:11:11 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Ok, folks, this is a whine/rant; delete if you don't feel like reading it. I went to JoAnn Fabrics last night and was looking through the pattern catalogues to find a sloper pattern. It's been a long time since I looked through commercial pattern catalogues... Anyway, not one of the catalogues had a sloper pattern! And the clerk said she didn't know what I was talking about or where I could get one. Yes, I _can_ draft up a sloper pattern on my own. I have the instructions and have done so, but can't find my original and was just hoping to save myself a little work by buying a commercial pattern and working off of that. I can't find my bookmark for the web site that does it for you... does anyone have that one on hand? Sigh; back to the drawing board (literally)! -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 15:16:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24864 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:16:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKG1pk001035; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKG1S0014093; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKF8S0013659 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gALKF7XK007952 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:15:07 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] making whalebone bones In-Reply-To: <20021121124859.C62371-100000@shell.siscom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:15:06 -0500 (EST) Status: RO No, but Mark Hutter at Colonial Williamsburg would; he discussed that at the Gadsby's Symposium workshop I went to... Sorry, don't have his email address, but I'd bet you could track him down at CW. What I recall from the workshop involved cutting the baleen into sheets with a short-bladed knife. There was more, but I can't give accurate details off the top of my head. Cheers, Mara On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Drea Leed wrote: > Another random spasm of curiosity has struck... > > Does anyone know of 16th, 17th or 18th c. sources that discuss the actual > process of making the whalebone boning that went into stays and corsets? > > I've looked around, but haven't found a thing in any of my books. > > Thanks, > > Drea > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 15:29:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24916 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:29:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKT3pk002080; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKT1S0020704; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f48.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKSkS0020543 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:28:41 -0800 Received: from 64.217.72.24 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:28:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.217.72.24] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grumble -- sloper Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2002 20:28:41.0013 (UTC) FILETIME=[94615E50:01C2919C] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:28:40 +0000 Status: RO the sloper pattern generator at: http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring2/drafting/index.html Hope this helps! Mary/Katerine >Ok, folks, this is a whine/rant; delete if you don't feel like reading it. > >I went to JoAnn Fabrics last night and was looking through the pattern >catalogues to find a sloper pattern. It's been a long time since I looked >through commercial pattern catalogues... Anyway, not one of the >catalogues had a sloper pattern! And the clerk said she didn't know what >I was talking about or where I could get one. > >Yes, I _can_ draft up a sloper pattern on my own. I have the instructions >and have done so, but can't find my original and was just hoping to save >myself a little work by buying a commercial pattern and working off of >that. I can't find my bookmark for the web site that does it for you... >does anyone have that one on hand? > >Sigh; back to the drawing board (literally)! > >-- Mara > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 15:42:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24961 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:42:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKg5pk003276; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:42:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKg1S0027546; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKfkS0027416 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:41:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp240.directcon.net [206.170.184.240]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gALKfOHV022747; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:41:25 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021121124534.00f3a660@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, Costume List From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grumble -- sloper In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:45:34 -0800 Status: RO Mara, try asking for a "fitting shell". I believe that's what Vogue/Butterick calls them. they're usually on the very last page of the dress section. The sloper drafting engine is at http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring2/ If it asks for an ID and password, the ID is "tailor" and the password is 1deadSinger. Margo At 03:11 PM 11/21/2002 -0500, Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: >Ok, folks, this is a whine/rant; delete if you don't feel like reading it. > >I went to JoAnn Fabrics last night and was looking through the pattern >catalogues to find a sloper pattern. It's been a long time since I looked >through commercial pattern catalogues... Anyway, not one of the >catalogues had a sloper pattern! And the clerk said she didn't know what >I was talking about or where I could get one. > >Yes, I _can_ draft up a sloper pattern on my own. I have the instructions >and have done so, but can't find my original and was just hoping to save >myself a little work by buying a commercial pattern and working off of >that. I can't find my bookmark for the web site that does it for you... >does anyone have that one on hand? > >Sigh; back to the drawing board (literally)! > >-- Mara > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 15:47:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24982 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:47:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKl7pk003967; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKl0S0000909; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKkPS0000421 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:46:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.9c.29b9f716 (25508) for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:45:54 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <9c.29b9f716.2b0ea001@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grumble -- sloper To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9c.29b9f716.2b0ea001_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:45:53 EST Status: RO --part1_9c.29b9f716.2b0ea001_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What, no Vogue 1000 anymore! I just noticed about a month ago that Vogue and Butterick had been bought by McCall's. Have no idea when it happened. i wonder if that may be one reason that Vogue, which always had the basic fit dress, doesn't anymore? Ann Wass --part1_9c.29b9f716.2b0ea001_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What, no Vogue 1000 anymore!  I just noticed about a month ago that Vogue and Butterick had been bought by McCall's.  Have no idea when it happened.  i wonder if that may be one reason that Vogue, which always had the basic fit dress, doesn't anymore?
Ann Wass --part1_9c.29b9f716.2b0ea001_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 15:53:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25044 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:53:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKm2pk004049; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKm1S0001492; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALKl9S0000981 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:47:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp240.directcon.net [206.170.184.240]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gALKkOHV024023; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:46:25 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021121125034.00f3a620@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, Costume List From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: [h-cost] H-cost: Found it! (Was:grumble -- sloper) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:50:34 -0800 Status: RO Here 'tis, and on sale, at that: http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.6092=x&TI='fi tting%20shell'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20374869 "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 16:09:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25122 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:09:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALL95pk005784; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:09:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALL93S0012377; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALL8bS0012156 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:08:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-1-228.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.1.228] helo=dan) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18EyYu-0004QF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:08:36 +0000 Message-ID: <009f01c291a2$ae6ffee0$e40124d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Yale bargain costume books Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:12:19 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, Well, in case anybody still has some money left after the fabulous books h-costers have been spotting, Yale Press has some possibles on clothing and textiles at reduced prices. See http://www.yale.edu/yup/reduced.html#25 best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 16:14:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25177 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:14:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLDSpk006311; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLBFS0013586; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLASS0013072 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (smtp.suscom.net [64.78.119.252]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51ED321A9D for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:10:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip16.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.16]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7035C2188B for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:10:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <051501c291a2$3b2bc950$10604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <10.28a62e02.2b0e6cf4@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_050C_01C29178.49544E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:08:53 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_050C_01C29178.49544E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are those who just want to party. There are also many, many = wonderful, intelligent people who have a genuine interest in medieval = history. Don't judge it before you try it. Dianne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JAzo478796@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes Re: Defining what I meant about "bawdy SCA events"=20 From all the SCA posts I've read at SCA sites around the country, = there seems to be a real "party attitude" on the part of many of the = men, at least - kind of like a medieval Hell's Angels. I see a lot of = posts about drinking a lot at the reneactments - basically, getting = totally wasted, sexy wenches, etc. It sounds like one big, adolescent = party. Maybe I'm just too old for that. ------=_NextPart_000_050C_01C29178.49544E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There are those who just want to party. = There are=20 also many, many wonderful, intelligent people who have a genuine = interest in=20 medieval history. Don't judge it before you try it.
 
Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JAzo478796@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 21, = 2002 12:08=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost]=20 medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes

Re: =  Defining what=20 I meant about "bawdy SCA events"
From all the SCA posts I've read = at SCA=20 sites around the country, there seems to be a real "party attitude" on = the=20 part of many of the men, at least - kind of like a medieval Hell's = Angels.=20  I see a lot of posts about drinking a lot at the reneactments -=20 basically, getting totally wasted, sexy wenches, etc.  It sounds = like one=20 big, adolescent party.  Maybe I'm just too old for that.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_050C_01C29178.49544E00-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 16:30:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25273 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:30:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLT2pk007803; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLT1S0023280; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLSRS0023014 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:28:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp240.directcon.net [206.170.184.240]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id gALLSCHV002379; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:28:13 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021121133222.00f38740@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grumble -- sloper In-Reply-To: <9c.29b9f716.2b0ea001@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:32:22 -0800 Status: RO At 03:45 PM 11/21/2002 EST, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: What, no Vogue 1000 anymore! I just noticed about a month ago that Vogue and Butterick had been bought by McCall's. Have no idea when it happened. About a year and a half ago. McCall's tried to buy Simplicity last year, as well, but the FTC wouldn't let them due to the antitrust laws. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 16:31:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25283 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:31:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLS3pk007726; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLS1S0022782; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLRrS0022669 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:27:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234948pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.182.133]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.5 (built Sep 23 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5Y00D4O3LO1K@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:27:26 -0500 (EST) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3DDD4FB6.8080103@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 References: <20021121190011.6039.27660.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Re: making whalebone boning Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:27:18 -0500 Status: RO Silly question here.... were "whalebone" for corsetry actual bone, or baleen? And I'll see if there's any hints with the Endangered Species activity when I hit the Hands on History Room on the first (I'll as the room's manager if she's any ideas as well for people to ask/places to look). *g* BTW, we've got our stays and waistcoats back for the Dressing like the Saunders activity... this time more big sizes, and laced rather than permanently laced with a velcro opening to make it quick and easy on and off... going to have to ask about the little kid sized one we used to have before it wore out. Unfortunately, this time around they used wool for the waistcoats, so I can't sit and tidy that side up... I wear short sleeves to keep cool in there, and folding them was a bit of a problem last week before I realized what I was doing to myself. -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 16:39:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25347 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:39:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLc1pk008812; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLc0S0028592; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gALLb5S0028054 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 89180 invoked by uid 1005); 21 Nov 2002 21:36:55 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.348568 secs); 21 Nov 2002 21:36:55 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.348568 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 21:36:54 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: making whalebone boning In-Reply-To: <3DDD4FB6.8080103@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20021121163643.D62371-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:36:59 -0500 (EST) Status: RO It was baleen, fashioned into thin, narrow strips. Thanks, Drea On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Liz / Cozit wrote: > Silly question here.... were "whalebone" for corsetry actual bone, or > baleen? > > And I'll see if there's any hints with the Endangered Species activity > when I hit the Hands on History Room on the first (I'll as the room's > manager if she's any ideas as well for people to ask/places to look). > *g* BTW, we've got our stays and waistcoats back for the Dressing like > the Saunders activity... this time more big sizes, and laced rather than > permanently laced with a velcro opening to make it quick and easy on and > off... going to have to ask about the little kid sized one we used to > have before it wore out. Unfortunately, this time around they used wool > for the waistcoats, so I can't sit and tidy that side up... I wear short > sleeves to keep cool in there, and folding them was a bit of a problem > last week before I realized what I was doing to myself. > > -Elisabeth > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 16:58:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25445 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:58:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLqVpk010341; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALLqPS0007520; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41212.mail.yahoo.com (web41212.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gALLpsS0007179 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:51:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021121215149.14295.qmail@web41212.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [143.192.1.15] by web41212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:51:49 PST From: Sheila W-S Subject: Subject: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20021121154913.21993.59124.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:51:49 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Just wanted to clarify, do you mean specifically New York City, or anywhere in New York State? Thanks! Sheila Phoenix, AZ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 17:03:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25491 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:03:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALM23pk011457; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALM21S0013097; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALM0xS0012430 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:00:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from JAzo478796@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.159.17d39761 (3874) for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:59:33 -0500 (EST) From: JAzo478796@aol.com Message-ID: <159.17d39761.2b0eb145@aol.com> Subject: Re: Subject: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_159.17d39761.2b0eb145_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10577 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:59:33 EST Status: RO --part1_159.17d39761.2b0eb145_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I actually meant New York City and environs... Just wanted to clarify, do you mean specifically New York City, or anywhere in New York State? Thanks! Sheila --part1_159.17d39761.2b0eb145_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I actually meant New York City and environs...


Just wanted to clarify, do you mean specifically New
York City, or anywhere in New York State?

Thanks!
Sheila --part1_159.17d39761.2b0eb145_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 17:57:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25728 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:57:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALMvNpk016720; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:57:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALMt1S0011315; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALMsSS0010984 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:54:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip180.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.180]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gALMsPXK002238 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:54:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021121175048.01ed8778@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grumble -- sloper In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20021121124534.00f3a660@pop.directcon.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:51:29 -0500 Status: RO At 12:45 PM 11/21/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Mara, try asking for a "fitting shell". I believe that's what >Vogue/Butterick calls them. they're usually on the very last page of the >dress section. > >The sloper drafting engine is at http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring2/ If >it asks for an ID and password, the ID is "tailor" and the password is >1deadSinger. > >Margo Thank you, Margo (and Mary)! If the latter doesn't work, I'm back off to the fabric store -- Hancock, this time. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 18:04:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25756 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:04:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALN4Hpk017465; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:04:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALN4BS0016249; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:04:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALN04S0013955 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip180.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.180]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gALN00XK003001 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:00:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021121175532.01f4b048@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grumble -- sloper In-Reply-To: <9c.29b9f716.2b0ea001@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:57:02 -0500 Status: RO Now that I'm told it's called a fitting shell, I found a copy online: http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/voguepatterns/shop.cgi?search=fitting+shell&TI=20001&UK=20375363&M=&pageSize=9 -- Mara At 03:45 PM 11/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: >What, no Vogue 1000 anymore! I just noticed about a month ago that Vogue >and Butterick had been bought by McCall's. Have no idea when it >happened. i wonder if that may be one reason that Vogue, which always had >the basic fit dress, doesn't anymore? >Ann Wass Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 18:09:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25774 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:09:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALN92pk017909; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALN91S0018485; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gALN8gS0018346 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id gALN7jIG077278 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:07:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200211212307.gALN7jIG077278@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grumble -- sloper To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Kevin + Mara" at Nov 21, 2002 05:51:29 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:07:45 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Also, vogue's sloper pattern is on their site. it's #1004 -- there's no picture of it, though > > At 12:45 PM 11/21/2002 -0800, you wrote: > >Mara, try asking for a "fitting shell". I believe that's what > >Vogue/Butterick calls them. they're usually on the very last page of the > >dress section. > > > >The sloper drafting engine is at http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring2/ If > >it asks for an ID and password, the ID is "tailor" and the password is > >1deadSinger. > > > >Margo > > Thank you, Margo (and Mary)! If the latter doesn't work, I'm back off to > the fabric store -- Hancock, this time. > > -- Mara > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 19:07:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26016 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:07:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM059pk023123; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:05:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM051gu015265; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM04jgu015140 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:04:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from gti.net (morr0682.gti.net [208.216.122.82]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 522823579F for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:04:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3DDD74A1.6DCF4B63@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] FIT exhibit catalog (was New Kyoto Costume Institute book) References: <006a01c28ea3$b12376a0$befc8218@hopperflop2> <000801c28f3a$789067c0$55c98693@creighton.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:04:49 -0500 Status: RO I saw the FIT exhibit & all they had in terms of a catalog was a small, non-glossy booklet with introductory facts on the Belle Epoque, the arts, the style, the fashion, etc. I mean, of course I picked up a couple, it's really nothing to write home about. I hope the FIT seminar will offer more material. Also, Sotheby's is having a Femme Fatale lecture too. Deb R. It is part of the Femme Fatale exhibition opening at the Fashion Institute of Technology in NYC Dec 15th. Late 19th c fashion mavens take note and let the rest of us know if an exhibition catalog is available! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 20:09:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26344 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:09:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM1A4pk027933; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM1A1gu009937; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f202.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM19Agu009700 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:09:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:09:05 -0800 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:09:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2002 01:09:05.0619 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0A08230:01C291C3] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:09:05 -0800 Status: RO At most fabric stores they are always half price. The time to stock up on all the ones you want to check out is when they get down to $1.99. I just bought ten patterns from JoAnn's at 5 for $5 so I can play test without spending a fortune. I couldn't draft a pattern if the universe depended on it, but I can generally adjust a ready made to better fit a specific person. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >Hi all, >I suspect that the costume patterns are unlikely to satisfy h-costers >standards, but they are half-price, and may be worth it if someone >needs something vaguely OK by yesterday. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 20:52:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26511 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:52:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM1q2pk001521; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM1q0pc025791; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM1pdpc025634 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp234948pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.182.133]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.5 (built Sep 23 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5Y00E45FTXS6@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:51:34 -0500 (EST) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume Message-id: <3DDD8D9E.8030402@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Art Institute of Chicago Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:51:26 -0500 Status: RO Aaargh!!! Ok, so I'm somewhat interested in the exhibit mentioned... but I can live without it.... but... They're going to have an exhibit from Dec. 18 through April 13 (that's 13... as in the week *before* Costume Con's out there!!!!!) on Renaissance Velvets and Silks which is including tapestries and ecclesiastical garments... among other things (mostly Italy and Spain). Both velvets and silks that are on display and tapestries showing people wearing those types of fabrics!!! Sniff, sniff... couldn't they have had it run *one* more week?? -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 22:25:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26948 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:25:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM3Q5pk007144; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:26:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM3Q1pc022067; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail6.kc.rr.com (fe6.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM3Pbpc021943 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.101.55]) by mail6.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:23:39 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021121212545.009f2410@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Art Institute of Chicago In-Reply-To: <3DDD8D9E.8030402@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:27:53 -0600 Status: RO Phooey! You just had to tell us that to torture those of us who are also going to the Con, didn't you? Now I have to go off and pout at not getting to see a good fabric exhibit. . . Sheryl Nance-Durst At 08:51 PM 11/21/02 -0500, you wrote: >Aaargh!!! Ok, so I'm somewhat interested in the exhibit mentioned... but >I can live without it.... but... > >They're going to have an exhibit from Dec. 18 through April 13 (that's >13... as in the week *before* Costume Con's out there!!!!!) on Renaissance >Velvets and Silks which is including tapestries and ecclesiastical >garments... among other things (mostly Italy and Spain). Both velvets and >silks that are on display and tapestries showing people wearing those >types of fabrics!!! > >Sniff, sniff... couldn't they have had it run *one* more week?? > >-Elisabeth > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Nov 21 23:44:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27326 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:44:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM4j3pk011714; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM4j1pc016130; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM4iDpc015927 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:44:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-007neomahp151.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.87] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18F5fo-0002T7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:44:13 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20021121221739.02831480@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <20021121051525.25215.30996.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Cassock Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:27:21 -0600 Status: RO Butterick did have a pattern, it's usually toward the back of the "costume" section (yes, I know someone already said this). In many fabric stores it's a 'special order only' item, but I think it's still in the pattern book. It is a basic pattern, but it does have the bits like both pockets and a faced slit so you can access the clothes underneath. It's a pretty good pattern, we've used it. One note: If you make it, and fasten it with buttons, there should be 33 buttons, regardless of what the pattern says. That is what is specified in the church canon. One supplier of ready-made ones is C.M. Almy (www.almy.com). They have a couple of styles, also all kinds of other vestments and church linens. They will custom-make as well, and also sell fabrics and trims. I made a wedding chasuble and stole for the priest at my sister-in-laws' wedding, and got most of the fabric, etc. from there. There is limited on-line ordering, but you can request a catalog (they have several) and they will send one. Sandy >From: BluBeavPub@aol.com >Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:55:55 EST >Subject: [h-cost] Cassack > >I'm in need of a pattern for or a ready-made Cassock for a Catholic Father. >Anyone have any suggestions? "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 00:29:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28157 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:29:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM5T3pk014092; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM5T2pc027572; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM5Scpc027422 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:28:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021122052832.IHVX3748.out003.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:28:33 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] making whalebone bones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out003.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:28:32 -0600 Message-Id: <20021122052832.IHVX3748.out003.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 0:28:32 -0500 Status: RO > > From: Kevin & Mara Riley > Date: 2002/11/21 Thu PM 03:15:06 EST > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] making whalebone bones > > No, but Mark Hutter at Colonial Williamsburg would; he discussed that at > the Gadsby's Symposium workshop I went to... Sorry, don't have his email > address, but I'd bet you could track him down at CW. > > What I recall from the workshop involved cutting the baleen into sheets > with a short-bladed knife. There was more, but I can't give accurate > details off the top of my head. > > Cheers, > Mara > If he has email at work, his address is mhutter@cwf.org (all our emails work this way). Or you can email me either at home or at work (rcarnegie@cwf.org) and I can forward it to him. Cheers, R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 03:13:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08330 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:13:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8E8pk021052; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8E1pc006637; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAM8DEpc006439 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:13:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021122081313.24459.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:13:13 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] 'Charlemagne's' crown: many thanks! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:13:13 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Thanks to everyone for the load of super suggestions. I have made a drawing of what I want, which is based on he crown in question, with bits and pices stolen (ahem, 'inspired') from various competely diverse sources, and will let you know how I get on. My first port of call will be our blacksmith to check what he can come up in iron or steel, because that would be cool, an iron crown, whoohoo. Which means I will have to buy myself black contact lenses, somehow they just go with it. ;-) Nicole - who doesn't say what this crown will be for, surprise, surprise! ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 03:20:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13881 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:20:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8L6pk021362; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:21:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8L4pc008190; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8KQpc008034 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:20:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A8C9936B0228; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:20:25 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A8CABCB00E4; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:20:26 -0600 Message-ID: <019301c29200$004d0ca0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] 1940s House Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:20:21 -0500 Status: RO I caught the last 30 minutes of the 1940s House on PBS tonight. I don't know if it had aired previously or not. I do recall talk of them showing the series a while back. They said there was another episode, but I don't see when it is playing. Does anyone know when the next episode is airing? I did notice Friday night, the Frontier House is airing again. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 03:26:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20664 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:26:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8R1pk021553; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8R0pc009392; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8QZpc009295 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:26:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AA3A24590212; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:26:34 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AA3BBE500E4; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:26:35 -0600 Message-ID: <01ad01c29200$dc0a19e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Star Wars: IMAX Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:26:30 -0500 Status: RO I wanted to know if anyone has seen Star Wars: Episode 2 in the IMAX theaters. If you have, what did you think of it? It is showing here in Richmond, VA at the Science Museum of VA. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 03:32:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25645 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:32:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8X6pk021831; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:33:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8X4pc010769; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAM8WFpc010578 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:32:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AB8E94340228; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:32:14 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AB8C145200A4; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:32:12 -0600 Message-ID: <01bc01c29201$a47eef40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <019301c29200$004d0ca0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s House X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:32:06 -0500 Status: RO I found the schedule at http://www.pbs.org/cgi-registry/whatson/template.cgir?s=WHTJ&t=0&t2=1&p=2135 7&c=d&d=2002-11-28 Make sure to copy the whole URL. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 06:25:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10707 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 06:25:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMBPApk027674; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 04:25:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMBP1pc012647; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 04:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMBOOpc012508 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 04:24:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-2-64.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.2.64] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18FBv5-0004Sb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:24:23 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c2921a$3c938120$400227d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:28:09 -0000 Status: RO Jennifer wrote: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price > At most fabric stores they are always half price. Not in England, they are not.... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 07:28:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10864 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:28:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMCT4pk029699; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 05:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMCT2pc024766; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 05:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMCSMpc024594 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 05:28:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] (exim) by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18FCvO-0003li-00; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:28:46 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18FCuy-0001EM-00; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:28:20 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: Penny Ladnier cc: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s House In-Reply-To: <019301c29200$004d0ca0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:28:20 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Penny Ladnier wrote: >I caught the last 30 minutes of the 1940s House on PBS tonight. I don't >know if it had aired previously or not. I do recall talk of them showing >the series a while back. They said there was another episode, but I don't >see when it is playing. Does anyone know when the next episode is airing? The airing time is pretty much different from each PBS station. If you go tp PBS.org and do a program search you can find listings for your local area. I caught the show twice in the last couple of weeks, it was interesting, obviously much easier to recreate the more modern era. I liked the family, they really looked the period. It was mostly focused on the mother and daughter, the husband I presume had to go back to his real job as he was sent away to do "war work." Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 08:37:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11319 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:37:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMDb3pk002468; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 06:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMDb1pc009548; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 06:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMDaRpc009384 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 06:36:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.110] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A1DF5F97018C; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:32:15 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c2922c$8d41a0e0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <20021122081313.24459.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 'Charlemagne's' crown: many thanks! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:39:15 -0500 Status: RO Please be aware that crowns of iron or steel[ the real thing] will be weighty. I had one made for a show once that was an "early design" and it weighed about 8 pounds. It was steel overlaid with brass. It was very impressive, but the actor usually carried it because of the weight. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 3:13 AM Subject: [h-cost] 'Charlemagne's' crown: many thanks! > Thanks to everyone for the load of super suggestions. I have made a drawing of > what I want, which is based on he crown in question, with bits and pices stolen > (ahem, 'inspired') from various competely diverse sources, and will let you > know how I get on. > My first port of call will be our blacksmith to check what he can come up in > iron or steel, because that would be cool, an iron crown, whoohoo. Which means > I will have to buy myself black contact lenses, somehow they just go with it. > ;-) > > Nicole - who doesn't say what this crown will be for, surprise, surprise! > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 09:06:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12557 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:06:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAME73pk004100; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAME70pc017580; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAME6Gpc017378 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:06:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021122140615.51382.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:06:15 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 'Charlemagne's' crown: many thanks! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001501c2922c$8d41a0e0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:06:15 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Please be aware that crowns of iron or steel[ the real thing] will be > weighty. I had one made for a show once that was an "early design" and it > weighed about 8 pounds. It was steel overlaid with brass. It was very > impressive, but the actor usually carried it because of the weight. > Kathleen Thanks Kathleen, I am very aware though, I own so many steel 'bits' that I am well used to this lovely material. Also, I am having a mail shirt made and a helmet, but as I said, I won't tell. :-) Apart from that they are supposed to be weighty! *G* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 09:22:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12787 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:22:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMEMNpk005174; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:22:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMEMLpc022357; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from rhenium (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMEKapc021717 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-22-71.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.22.71] helo=dan) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18FEfL-00033q-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:20:19 +0000 Message-ID: <004301c29232$d0851d40$400227d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20021122081313.24459.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 'Charlemagne's' crown: many thanks! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:24:05 -0000 Status: RO Nicole wrote: > My first port of call will be our blacksmith to check what he can come up in > iron or steel, because that would be cool, an iron crown, whoohoo. Not unless you had an "After the Beheading" scene in mind; if you want to go with iron or steel, and actually wear it, then use wire wrapped around a light core. That way you save on the osteopath's bills... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 09:44:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12901 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:44:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMEf6pk006525; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:41:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMEf1pc028134; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAMEeWpc027981 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:40:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021122144031.17243.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:40:31 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] 'Charlemagne's' crown: many thanks! To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <004301c29232$d0851d40$400227d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:40:31 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Not unless you had an "After the Beheading" scene in mind; if you > want to go with iron or steel, and actually wear it, then use wire > wrapped around a light core. That way you save on the osteopath's > bills... Yes Stevie, thanks, but as I already said to, uhm... sorry I forgot the name, Kathleen? I KNOW about the weight of iron and steel and my helmet isn't a lightie either, I have Tim - if affordable - make it just like a helmet: properly. P.S. I go to the Osteopath anyway. ;-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 10:36:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13192 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:36:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMFRMpk009928; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:27:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMFRIBM015295; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMFQXBM014710 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:26:33 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200211221526.gAMFQXBM014710@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc57 (rwcrwbc57.attbi.com[204.127.198.46]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <200211221526280530026lcae>; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:26:28 +0000 Received: from [128.95.168.193] by rwcrwbc57; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:26:23 +0000 From: Gia_Gavino@attbi.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grumble -- sloper X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: R2lhX0dhdmlub0BhdHRiaS5jb20= Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:26:23 +0000 Status: RO I have acouple in my 10 boxes of patterns (I moved recently). What size do you need? Maybe I can find one of them... Gia/Giacinta pattern nut...er...collector > Ok, folks, this is a whine/rant; delete if you don't feel like reading it. > > I went to JoAnn Fabrics last night and was looking through the pattern > catalogues to find a sloper pattern. It's been a long time since I looked > through commercial pattern catalogues... Anyway, not one of the > catalogues had a sloper pattern! And the clerk said she didn't know what > I was talking about or where I could get one. > > Yes, I _can_ draft up a sloper pattern on my own. I have the instructions > and have done so, but can't find my original and was just hoping to save > myself a little work by buying a commercial pattern and working off of > that. I can't find my bookmark for the web site that does it for you... > does anyone have that one on hand? > > Sigh; back to the drawing board (literally)! > > -- Mara > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 10:43:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13238 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:43:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMFh6pk011489; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMFh0BM022782; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMFgWBM022513 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:42:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18FFwu-00033S-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:42:32 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Saga Continues..... Message-ID: <000401c2923d$caaf9480$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021118.123719.-420811.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:42:39 -0700 Status: RO Keep us posted-I can't wait to see the finished dress! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 10:51:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13300 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:51:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMFk2pk011756; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMFk2BM024170; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMFjmBM024029 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:45:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-235.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.235]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19827C5B for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:45:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DDE5124.7080502@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:45:40 +0100 Status: RO If you find some "Historical" patterns I am very interested. I live in the Netherlands, and I can't get them so cheap. Even with paying the shippingcost will still make it worthwile. Greetings, Deredere Jennifer Sena wrote: > The time to stock up on all the ones you want to check out is when > they get down to $1.99. I just bought ten patterns from JoAnn's at 5 > for $5 so I can play test without spending a fortune. I couldn't > draft a pattern if the universe depended on it, but I can generally > adjust a ready made to better fit a specific person. > > > > > Jennifer Sena > Distant Designs > http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > > I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > > >> Hi all, >> I suspect that the costume patterns are unlikely to satisfy h-costers >> standards, but they are half-price, and may be worth it if someone >> needs something vaguely OK by yesterday. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 11:13:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13451 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:13:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMG92pk013808; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMG90BM004979; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAMG8sBM004876 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtBLBizN1ddVCj8Nvu/zi5s="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HH8W6EEZ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:08:07 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 'Charlemagne's' crown: many thanks! Message-ID: <20021122.081000.-47025.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-8,10-12,14,16-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:25:42 +0000 Status: RO The people who made my Laurel circlet came up with a great idea to help with the weight problem. They made the circlet a little large and then put a band of thick leather on the inside, covering that with bias tape. This inner band takes the weight beautifully and I never have "hat head." Most of the time I don't even notice I'm wearing it, and I only pull it out for formal occaisions. Arlys On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:39:15 -0500 "Lloyd Mitchell" writes: > Please be aware that crowns of iron or steel[ the real thing] will be > weighty. I had one made for a show once that was an "early design" > and it weighed about 8 pounds. It was steel overlaid with brass. It was > very impressive, but the actor usually carried it because of the weight. > Kathleen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 11:35:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13622 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:35:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMGZ3pk016168; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMGZ2ZO017917; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMGYrZO017823 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:34:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from PARIS (12-245-182-60.client.attbi.com[12.245.182.60]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20021122163448053003un2ie>; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:34:48 +0000 From: "Emily Hartman" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Star Wars: IMAX Message-ID: <008a01c29245$05b6f3f0$3cb6f50c@PARIS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <01ad01c29200$dc0a19e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:34:26 -0500 Status: RO Penny, I went to see the IMAX version of Episode 2 in Grand Rapids, MI. My main reason was to see the gorgeous yellow "meadow dress" (obligatory costume content) on the big screen and hopefully see more details, but they cut that scene!!!! They also cut quite a bit more from the movie...some of which was necessary to the plot...the fighting was very hard to watch and the CGI did not look very good on the big screen. All in all, I'd say rent the DVD or video and watch it at home...meadow dress included! Emily Many people have played themselves to death. Many people have eaten and drunk themselves to death. Nobody ever thought himself to death. --Gilbert Higlet Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; he thinks too much such men are dangerous. --Shakespeare, Julius Caesar _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 12:31:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13960 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:31:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMHV3pk021320; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMHV1ZO016866; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f25.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMHU6ZO016309 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:30:00 -0800 Received: from 12.231.158.181 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:30:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.158.181] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2002 17:30:00.0862 (UTC) FILETIME=[C915E3E0:01C2924C] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:30:00 -0800 Status: RO I'm sorry, I guess living within driving distance of three chain fabric stores has spoiled me terribly. If someone has been wanting one of the big three's patterns and don't want to spend the huge amount of cash, I would be happy to look for you here. The sales happen often enough here that I never pay more than $2 for one of the mass produced patterns. I will pay more for those that are already more accurate or authentic, but just to get all the shapes of pieces figured out, I have to cut corners. Feel free to contact me offline if you're seriously interested. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >From: "Stevie Gamble" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price >Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:28:09 -0000 > >Jennifer wrote: > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price > > > > At most fabric stores they are always half price. > >Not in England, they are not.... > >best wishes >Stevie > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 12:34:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13970 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:34:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMHY2pk021637; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMHY2ZO018548; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAMHWxZO017972 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:32:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWiCFrTIuA2/Yx4LGpY2TBM+wOi1C+Fp0JA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HH83X6QH; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:32:05 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s House Message-ID: <20021122.121310.-157287.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:53:24 -0500 Status: RO I lived in a 1940s home and don't particularly want to go back. It makes me feel old when I find kitchen stuff in antique stores that I am still using. Watching a show from a time when I was in school would just make me feel older. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 14:23:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15398 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:23:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMJDoC8029597; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMIS0ZO017001; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMIROZO016644 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:27:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [113.105.42.14] (ool-4353599f.dyn.optonline.net [67.83.89.159]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H5Z00BJOOMN4B@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:59:11 -0500 (EST) From: Linda Krecker-Schkred Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s House In-reply-to: <20021122.121310.-157287.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Sender: rhianwen@mail.optonline.net To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Lalah T Tillinghast Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20021122.121310.-157287.2.catpurson@juno.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:57:57 -0500 Status: RO I still live in a home from the 40's. This house was built by my in-Laws. The floors are still the same. No additions have been made.The kitchen and bathroom are still the same. Talk about the epitome of inefficiency. But I do love the clothes from that period. Only my body type wasn't built for that decade. I'm better suited for the 20's. What about the rest of you. What is your best time period per your body type? Linda K-S At 11:53 AM -0500 11/22/02, Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > I lived in a 1940s home and don't particularly want to go back. >It makes me feel old when I find kitchen stuff in antique stores that I >am still using. Watching a show from a time when I was in school would >just make me feel older. > >Lalah >Never give up, Never surrender >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 15:16:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15650 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:16:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMKG2pk006372; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMKG1ZO011401; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail.webminders.com (mail@webmail.webminders.com [216.15.159.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMKFOZO011117 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:15:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from http by webmail.webminders.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18FKCv-00037k-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:15:21 -0500 Received: from 198.178.8.81 ( [198.178.8.81]) as user maredudd@caerthe.org@ms2.webminders.com by 216.15.159.162 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:15:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1037996121.3dde9059c5c66@216.15.159.162> From: maredudd@caerthe.org To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval/renaissance dance groups/classes References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 X-Server-IP: 216.15.159.162 X-Originating-IP: 198.178.8.81 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:15:21 -0500 Status: RO Quoting Jennifer Sena : > I think maybe you've just been playing with the wrong niche in the SCA. I > know nothing about New York, but I know there are several dance groups on > the west coast who are very serious about the authenticity not only of their > > costume, but the steps and ettiquette of period dancing. Our SCA dance group here in Denver is quite serious, as is the group in Colorado Springs. We even have a couple of people who are part of the dance group who *aren't* in the SCA. I wouldn't characterize our practices as "bawdy", although we do have fun. As a matter of fact, we're so serious (crass commercial announcement warning) that Caerthe's dancemaster is conducting a masqued ball at KWCS III. No Korabushka there; just period dances in period clothing. And since it's a "Come As You Aren't" ball, we're encouraging all those allegorical outfits, masks, and the like. (End of commercial announcement.) You might find a group that you like better that *isn't* SCA, but don't automatically eliminate them from your search. The SCA is not by definition "less serious" about scholarship than other groups - that's far too sweeping of a generalization - although there are a lot of people who are relitively unconcerned with issues of authenticity. Perhaps the dance group that you're acquainted with is - but I can assure you that there are *a lot* of SCA folks who are very concerned with authenticity. Quite a few are on this list. Eirene _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 15:23:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15938 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:23:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMKN3pk006943; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMKN1ZO014811; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAMKMKZO014499 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:22:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021122202219.30818.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:22:19 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:22:19 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Linda Krecker-Schkred wrote: > > What about the rest of you. What is your best time period per your body type? > Baroque, no kidding, really, guess why it's my favourite one. I am not big but squishy, and the corsets and bodices squish in the waist, make the perfect period conical upper body shape and craete a most gorgeous, classy cleavage (according to the part of the population that claims to know *G*) My hips are child-bearing and that's perfect for the big silk skirts and bum rolls. Gosh, I feel SO sexy in my Baroque gowns. ;-))) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 17:36:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16891 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:36:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMMa6pk018497; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMMa1ZO022710; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMMZZZO022471 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:35:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from ANALYSIS.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.86]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id gAMMZZK13905 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:35:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122142303.00a6efb8@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie In-Reply-To: <006a01c28ea3$b12376a0$befc8218@hopperflop2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_23596953==_.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] Any word on Folkwear? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:33:28 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_23596953==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Greeting, I remember a bit ago, someone mentioned that Folkwear traded hands yet again. I was going to order through their online site but a friend mentioned that nothing she wanted was in stock. So, is there anyone who is stocking their patterns at the normal retail prices these days? Danke Gwyn Carnegie University of California, Davis --=====================_23596953==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Greeting,

I remember a bit ago, someone mentioned that Folkwear traded hands yet again.  I was going to order through their online site but a friend mentioned that nothing she wanted was in stock. So, is there anyone who is stocking their patterns at the normal retail prices these days?

Danke

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis

--=====================_23596953==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 17:53:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17033 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:53:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMMr2pk019865; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMMr1ZO000720; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAMMqsZO000654 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:52:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26262 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 22:52:54 -0000 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (209.15.2.27) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 22:52:54 -0000 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.42.67]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:52:53 -0600 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD_01C2924F.FA49FDE0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Patterns outside of the U.S. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:52:49 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD_01C2924F.FA49FDE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All this discussion of pattern prices around the U.S. made me think: Are there different pattern companies in other countries? Or are the big companies (Vogue, Butterick, McCalls, Simplicity, etc.) international? I'm particularly curious about Vogue because my I nurture a secret hope that maybe Vivienne Westwood puts out patterns for them in England or some such. Can anyone comment? thanks in advance, Allison ------=_NextPart_000_01BD_01C2924F.FA49FDE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Patterns outside of the U.S.

All this discussion of pattern prices around the U.S. = made me think:

Are there different pattern companies in other = countries? Or are the big companies (Vogue, Butterick, McCalls, = Simplicity, etc.) international?

I'm particularly curious about Vogue because my I = nurture a secret hope that maybe Vivienne Westwood puts out patterns for = them in England or some such. Can anyone comment?

thanks in advance,

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_01BD_01C2924F.FA49FDE0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 18:19:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17210 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:19:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMNJ1pk021735; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMNJ0ZO012608; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMNIDZO012263 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:18:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021122231811.NXFJ15173.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:18:11 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns outside of the U.S. Message-ID: <3DDEBB33.202.1F41EF@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:18:11 -0000 Status: RO On 22 Nov 2002 at 17:52, Allison Thurman wrote: > > All this discussion of pattern prices around the U.S. made me think: > Are there different pattern companies in other countries? Or are the > big companies (Vogue, Butterick, McCalls, Simplicity, etc.) > international? I'm particularly curious about Vogue because my I > nurture a secret hope that maybe Vivienne Westwood puts out patterns > for them in England or some such. Can anyone comment? thanks in > advance, Allison Not using patterns much myself, I didn't know what companies are sold over here, either. But after a bit of Googling on UK-only sites, I do now. The Wimbledon Sewing Machine Company, frex, offers: "THE FULL RANGES OF: VOGUE - BUTTERICK - BURDA - SIMPLICITY - NEW LOOK - KWIK SEW - McCALLS" (And much other fun stuff... no, put that credit card away!) Truro Fabrics: "patterns from Vogue, Butterick, McCall Simplicity, New Look, Burda" Janet Riley fabrics: "Vogue, Butterrick, New Look, McCall's and Simplicity" So it sounds like your quest for Vogue may have a chance of success. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 18:20:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17229 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:20:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMNL1pk021879; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAMNL1ZO013537; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAMNKKZO013204 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:20:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021122232020.4110.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:20:20 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns outside of the U.S. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:20:20 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Allison Thurman wrote: > All this discussion of pattern prices around the U.S. made me think: > > Are there different pattern companies in other countries? Or are the big > companies (Vogue, Butterick, McCalls, Simplicity, etc.) international? The big companies you emntion are very americacentric (and generally the english speaking world) In Germany the biggest one is Burda (still my favourite, fits me best of all - I must have a Germanic body *L*) you can get Vogue but only in a few places and forget about the others. All of the above is according to my mum (in germany) who tried to get a Vogue pattern for me last month but couldn't! > I'm particularly curious about Vogue because my I nurture a secret hope that > maybe Vivienne Westwood puts out patterns for them in England or some such. > Can anyone comment? Nope, the patterns you get here are the ones you see on the web site. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 19:03:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17475 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:03:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN043pk025195; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN041ZO002442; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20110.mail.yahoo.com (web20110.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAN035ZO002119 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:03:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021123000305.86419.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.116.158.11] by web20110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:03:05 PST From: Sidonia Ros Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any word on Folkwear? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122142303.00a6efb8@blue.ucdavis.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:03:05 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I recently found quite the collection at Lacis in Berkely. Ghislaine/Sandra --- Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > Greeting, > > I remember a bit ago, someone mentioned that > Folkwear traded hands yet > again. I was going to order through their online > site but a friend > mentioned that nothing she wanted was in stock. So, > is there anyone who is > stocking their patterns at the normal retail prices > these days? > > Danke > > > Gwyn Carnegie > University of California, Davis > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 20:08:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17725 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:08:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN18Gpk029078; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN182ZO022270; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20207.mail.yahoo.com (web20207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAN17FZO022038 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:07:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20021123010715.50669.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 12:07:15 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns outside of the U.S. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3DDEBB33.202.1F41EF@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 12:07:15 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Jane Williams wrote: > On 22 Nov 2002 at 17:52, Allison Thurman wrote: > > > > > All this discussion of pattern prices around the > U.S. made me think: > > Are there different pattern companies in other > countries? Or are the > > big companies (Vogue, Butterick, McCalls, > Simplicity, etc.) > > international? I'm particularly curious about > Vogue because my I > > nurture a secret hope that maybe Vivienne Westwood > puts out patterns > > for them in England or some such. Can anyone > comment? thanks in > > advance, Allison Over here is Australia we get all those, as well as Kwik-sew, Burda and New Look. I don't know if a Vivienne Westwood puts out patterns for Vogue, but I can check if you'd like? What kind of clothing does she design? Bella http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper - Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 20:54:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17872 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:54:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN1s2pk001463; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN1s1JW004025; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN1rKJW003832 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:53:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a23.in-tch.com [66.62.107.3]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAN1bWL29162 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:37:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3DDEDF9F.A1031DE3@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House References: <20021122202219.30818.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:53:35 -0700 Status: RO For me? I dunno--anything that's okay with curves. I'd never look my best in stuff that emphasizes vertical lines (Burgundian, or Regency, or 1920s/30s). Anything that's okay with -uhm- copious cleavage and a contrast between larger hips and bust and a smaller waist. I'd be great for Victorian stuff, I think. I do ItalianRen pretty good, as well as late 16th/most of 17th. I've noticed, in my SCA-clothing experience, that the stuff that looks most flattering is stuff that can be fitted to some degree. My biggest challenge (outside of current size, which is too big) is my lack of height--I'm only 5'5", but have really broad shoulders and hips. I end up needing stuff simultaneously scaled up and scaled down, if that makes any sense.... --sue N Kipar wrote: > > --- Linda Krecker-Schkred wrote: > > > What about the rest of you. What is your best time period per your body type? > > > Baroque, no kidding, really, guess why it's my favourite one. I am not big but > squishy, and the corsets and bodices squish in the waist, make the perfect > period conical upper body shape and craete a most gorgeous, classy cleavage > (according to the part of the population that claims to know *G*) My hips are > child-bearing and that's perfect for the big silk skirts and bum rolls. Gosh, I > feel SO sexy in my Baroque gowns. ;-))) > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 23:11:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18345 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:11:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN3t2pk006822; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN3t1JW003397; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN3sYJW003274 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:54:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from angelap3a8d978 (adsl-67-121-121-175.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.121.175]) by pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with SMTP id gAN3sXAQ415974 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:54:33 -0500 Message-ID: <003a01c292a4$70e8ec00$af797943@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122142303.00a6efb8@blue.ucdavis.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any word on Folkwear? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01C29261.62429950" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:57:27 -0800 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C29261.62429950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recently found a site that had Folkwear patterns. Even the Sunburst = cocoon coat that I thought was out of stock forever. Check out = www.patternshowcase.com and browse by company.=20 angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes=20 http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "If to do were as easy as to know what were good to do, chapels had been churches,=20 and poor men's cottages princes' palaces." The Merchant of Venice, I, ii - William Shakespeare ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gwyn Carnegie=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 2:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] Any word on Folkwear? Greeting, I remember a bit ago, someone mentioned that Folkwear traded hands yet = again. I was going to order through their online site but a friend = mentioned that nothing she wanted was in stock. So, is there anyone who = is stocking their patterns at the normal retail prices these days?=20 Danke Gwyn Carnegie University of California, Davis=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C29261.62429950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I recently found a site that had = Folkwear=20 patterns. Even the Sunburst cocoon coat that I thought was out of stock=20 forever.  Check out www.patternshowcase.com and = browse by=20 company.
 
angela
+++++
Angela F. = Lazear
Cabbage Rose=20 Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostume= s.com
Theatrical=20 Costume Design
"If to do were as easy as to know what were good to=20 do,
chapels had been churches,
and poor men's cottages princes'=20 palaces."
The Merchant of Venice, I, ii - William = Shakespeare
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Gwyn=20 Carnegie
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 = 2:33=20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Any word on=20 Folkwear?


Greeting,

I remember a bit ago, someone = mentioned=20 that Folkwear traded hands yet again.  I was going to order = through their=20 online site but a friend mentioned that nothing she wanted was in = stock. So,=20 is there anyone who is stocking their patterns at the normal retail = prices=20 these days?

Danke

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis=20

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C29261.62429950-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 23:34:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18459 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:34:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN4W4pk008464; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN4W0JW011704; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN4VsJW011661 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAN4o1H9001833; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:50:02 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAN4o0oD001831; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:50:00 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, N Kipar Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20021122202219.30818.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20021122202219.30818.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200211222350.00456.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAN4VsJW011661 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:50:00 -0500 Status: RO On Friday 22 November 2002 03:22 pm, N Kipar wrote: > --- Linda Krecker-Schkred wrote: > > > > What about the rest of you. What is your best time period per your body > > type? > > Baroque, no kidding, really, guess why it's my favourite one. I am not big > but squishy, and the corsets and bodices squish in the waist, make the > perfect period conical upper body shape and craete a most gorgeous, classy > cleavage (according to the part of the population that claims to know *G*) > My hips are child-bearing and that's perfect for the big silk skirts and > bum rolls. Gosh, I feel SO sexy in my Baroque gowns. ;-))) Late medieval. In fact, I look rather like the famous nudes of the late 1400's. Small, well-separated breasts, largish hips, full thighs. Though I look fine in the attire of most periods except the 1890s--the combination of wide upper sleeves and wide skirts makes me look rather like a lampshade (I'm rather short).... -- Cathy Raymond "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." --Flannery O'Connor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Nov 22 23:51:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18538 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:51:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN4q1pk009303; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN4q0JW016201; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN4pFJW016044 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:51:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from alderweb.vaxxine.com (ppp163.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.163]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06192 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:51:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.3.0.20021122234433.00c3e360@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@pop.vaxxine.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 To: h-costume@indra.com From: David Webb In-Reply-To: <3DDD4FB6.8080103@comcast.net> References: <20021121190011.6039.27660.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id gAN4pFJW016044 Subject: [h-cost] New textile book Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:53:40 -0500 Status: RO Excuse me if this has already been brought to the attention of the group, but I came across this prepublication blurb (not as reasonably priced as the new Koyoto book unfortunately, which by the way, is a visually sensual, indeed sexual experience!) http://books.cambridge.org/0521341078.htm The Cambridge History of Western Textiles 2 Volume Boxed Set Edited by David Jenkins c. £200.00 Publication is planned for March 2003 | Quantity Pack | 1500 pages 280 half-tones 40 colour plates | ISBN: 0521341078 Not yet published - available from March 2003 Textiles have been essential to the everyday lives of all societies. Besides helping provide protection and warmth, they have fulfilled social, cultural, military, legal and symbolic functions, and have been an essential part of the economic activity of societies from ancient times. The Cambridge History of Western Textiles brings together and extends current knowledge on the production and uses of textiles, through the eyes of archaeologists, economic and social historians, historians of fashion and the history of dress, and museum curators familiar with surviving artefacts. The history of all the major textile industries, including wool, linen, silk, cotton and artificial fibres is explored. Processes and technical terms are explained carefully, while the role and impact of textiles in western economies and societies are examined. In sum, the book offers an authoritative account of three thousand years of the production and consumption of textiles in the western world. Contents Preface; Part I. Textile Industries of the Ancient World: 1. Introduction John Peter Wild and Penelope Walton Rogers; 2. Ancient Egypt; Anatolia; Mesopotamia and the Levant; the late Bronze Aegeans; the near east in the Iron Age; Europe Joan Allgrove McDowell, John Peter Wild and Lise Bender Jørgensen; 3. The Greeks; the Romans; northern Europe in the Roman Iron Age; the eastern Mediterranean Ian Jenkins, John Peter Wild and Lise Bender Jørgensen; 4. Textile industries of the early medieval world to AD 1000 Lise Bender Jørgensen, Penelope Walton Rogers, John Peter Wild, Joan Allgrove McDowell and Gillian Vogelsang-Eastwood; Part II. The Medieval Period: 5 (i) Medieval woollens; textiles, textile technology and industrial organisation, c. 800–1500, 5 (ii) The western European woollen industries and their struggles for international markets, c. 1000–1500 John Munro; 6. Silk in the medieval world Anna Muthesius; 7. The uses of textiles, c. 1000–1500 Frances Pritchard; Part III. The Early Modern Period: 8. The west European woollen industries, 1500–1750 Herman Van der Wee; 9. The linen industry in early modern Europe Leslie Clarkson; 10. Fashioning cottons; Asian trade, domestic industry and consumer demand, 1660–1780 Beverly Lemire; 11. Calico printing in Europe before 1780 Serge Chassagne; 12. Silk in the early modern period, c. 1500–1780 Natalie Rothstein; 13. Knitting and knitware Joan Thirsk; 14. Lace in the early modern period, c. 1500–1780 Santina Levey; 15. Early modern tapestries and carpets, c. 1500–1780 Edith Standen and Jennifer Wearden; 16. Furnishings, c. 1500–1780 Natalie Rothstein and Santina Levey; 17. Dress in the early modern period, c. 1500-1780 Aileen Ribeiro; Part IV. The Nineteenth Century: 18. Cotton, 1780–1914 Douglas Farnie; 19. The western wool textile industry in the nineteenth century David Jenkins; 20. Silk: the Industrial Revolution and after Natalie Rothstein; 21. The linen industry in the nineteenth century Peter Solar; 22. The hosiery industry, 1780–1914 Stanley Chapman; 23. Machine-made lace: the Industrial Revolution and after Santina Levey; 24. Textile design and furnishings, c. 1780–1914 Elisabet Stavenow-Hidemark; 25. Dress: the Industrial Revolution and after Penelope Byrde; Part V. The Twentieth Century: 26. Man-made fibres before 1945 Donald Coleman; 27. Man-made fibres since 1945 Jeffrey Harrop; 28 Cotton since 1914 Lars Sandberg; 29. Wool textiles in the twentieth century David Jenkins; 30 Hosiery and knitwear in the twentieth century Stanley Chapman; 31. Fashion for men and women in the twentieth century Lou Taylor and Fiona Anderson; 32. Furnishings and industrial textiles, 1914–1999 Mary Schoeser; Bibliography. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 23 02:42:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10697 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:42:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN7e7pk015462; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:40:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN7e0JW021270; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.65.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAN7dtJW021233 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:39:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 28228 invoked by uid 0); 23 Nov 2002 07:39:49 -0000 Received: from pd958f80b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.88.248.11) by mail.gmx.net (mp001-rz3) with SMTP; 23 Nov 2002 07:39:49 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns outside of the U.S. From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021122232020.4110.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:39:49 +0100 Status: RO Here in Munich I can get Vogue, Butterick, McCalls, Simplicity, etc. But mostly only in the biggest department stores. It also depends on what time of the year for which selection (they are at any rate the same patterns as in the States). It seems they get a particular selection and then only a limited supply but if they don't have one they have always been able to order for me (that is if I happen to catch the helpful sales assistant rather than the unhelpful one - then it is not orderable, of course). Also they are NEVER on sale and they cost much more. Cass :) > --- Allison Thurman wrote: > All this discussion of > pattern prices around the U.S. made me think: >> >> Are there different pattern companies in other countries? Or are the big >> companies (Vogue, Butterick, McCalls, Simplicity, etc.) international? > > The big companies you emntion are very americacentric (and generally the > english speaking world) > In Germany the biggest one is Burda (still my favourite, fits me best of all - > I must have a Germanic body *L*) you can get Vogue but only in a few places > and > forget about the others. All of the above is according to my mum (in germany) > who tried to get a Vogue pattern for me last month but couldn't! > >> I'm particularly curious about Vogue because my I nurture a secret hope that >> maybe Vivienne Westwood puts out patterns for them in England or some such. >> Can anyone comment? > > Nope, the patterns you get here are the ones you see on the web site. > > Nicole > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 23 03:07:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18483 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 03:07:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN851pk016116; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN850JW025923; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN84qJW025863 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:04:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2002112308044700200t2ri2e>; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:04:47 +0000 Message-ID: <042001c292c7$40571030$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns outside of the U.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:06:34 -0600 Status: RO I collect glove patterns. From what I can see in my collection I have quite a few from over seas. Three of them say coupon patterns on them, Vogue - London is one of them. They instruct the user to recycle the paper when they are done with it. The price on it is "1/6 plus purchase tax in Great Britain and Northern Ireland". I fear I must plead ignorance at what the price actually is. But it seems that at least Vogue was sold during ww2 and this pattern in particular was manufactured in London. There is an address as well for the plant. Did someone here mention at one time that Vogue patterns were originally from England? Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison Thurman" To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 4:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] Patterns outside of the U.S. > All this discussion of pattern prices around the U.S. made me think: > > Are there different pattern companies in other countries? Or are the big > companies (Vogue, Butterick, McCalls, Simplicity, etc.) international? > > I'm particularly curious about Vogue because my I nurture a secret hope that > maybe Vivienne Westwood puts out patterns for them in England or some such. > Can anyone comment? > > thanks in advance, > > Allison > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 23 03:26:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01057 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 03:26:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN8O1pk016540; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN8O0JW029072; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAN8NpJW029040 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021123082350.ZEYC2797.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:23:50 +0000 From: "Jane Williams" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Patterns outside of the U.S. Message-ID: <3DDF3B16.23738.212CFA9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <042001c292c7$40571030$31baee0c@c59303a> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: jane@williams.nildram.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:23:50 -0000 Status: RO On 23 Nov 2002 at 2:06, chiara wrote: > The price on it is "1/6 plus > purchase tax in Great Britain and Northern Ireland". I fear I must > plead ignorance at what the price actually is. One shilling and sixpence. A form of currency that went out when I was rather small. I seem to remember the shilling converted to 5p, so that's about 7.5p: about ten US cents, at a guess? There has been inflation since :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Nov 23 06:05:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01415 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 06:05:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gANB62pk021360; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 04:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gANB60JW025055; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 04:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gANB5pJW025019 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 04:05:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp02-197.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.121.197]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C351A03A4 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 12:05:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3DDF6109.4060109@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere & Owen Iskander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price Help! References: <3DDE5124.7080502@kabelfoon.nl> <002d01c29243$e3afab40$24cabfcf@ats.mcleodusa.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060508000908040102050203" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 12:05:45 +0100 Status: RO --------------060508000908040102050203 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am interested in patterns, Butterick 3012 3648 3241 3418 3417 3072 6694 Simplicity 5724 5740 5726 5794 5958 5955 9836 A Kristmas Carol(don't now the number) I don't like McCalls And from the Voge patterns I like the historical 11,5" doll patterns 7555 5955 9836 7557 7253 I like to collekt patterns but it is so expensive. A friend of mine has her own costume business and she uses patterns to make "historical" (wedding) costumes for people. And she has more work than she can handle. I am thinking of putting up my own business or maby work togheter with her. I like to use a pattern as a base and than adjust it to make it look the way the customer wants. It is probably illegal but it happens so often. If someone likes to collect patterns for me I would be very happy. I can pay with paypall. I don't need them right now. But if you can collect the patterns and send them away when it is a nice waight it saves also shipping costs. And I also would like to pay a little extra for the work finding them and sending them. If you can get them for 1$ I'm very happy but 2$ would be good too. If someone likes to help me please contact me off list. Greetings, Deredere >Butterick >http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi >McCall's >http://www.mccallspatterns.com/index.htm >Simplicity >http://www.simplicity.com/s2b.htm >Vogue >http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/voguepatterns/shop.cgi > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Deredere & Owen Iskander >To: >Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:45 AM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price > > > > >>If you find some "Historical" patterns I am very interested. >>I live in the Netherlands, and I can't get them so cheap. >>Even with paying the shippingcost will still make it worthwile. >> >>Greetings, >> Deredere >> >>Jennifer Sena wrote: >> >> >> > > --------------060508000908040102050203 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am interested in patterns,

Butterick
                3012
                3648
                3241
                3418
                3417
                3072
                6694
Simplicity
                5724
                5740
                5726
                5794
                5958
                5955
                9836
A Kristmas Carol(don't now the number)

I don't like McCalls

And from the Voge patterns I like the historical 11,5"  doll patterns
                7555
                5955
                9836
                7557
                7253

I like to collekt patterns but it is so expensive.
A friend of mine has her own costume business and she uses patterns to make "historical" (wedding) costumes for people.
And she has more work than she can handle. I am thinking of putting up my own business or maby work togheter with her.
I like to use a pattern as a base and than adjust it to make it look the way the customer wants.
It is probably illegal but it happens so often.

If someone likes to collect patterns for me I would be very happy. I can pay with paypall.
 I don't need them right now. But if you can collect the patterns and send them away when it is a nice waight it saves also shipping costs.
And I also would like to pay a little extra for the work finding them and sending them.
If you can get them for 1$ I'm very happy but 2$ would be good too.

If someone likes to help me please contact me off list.
Greetings,
        Deredere


Butterick
http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi
McCall's
http://www.mccallspatterns.com/index.htm
Simplicity
http://www.simplicity.com/s2b.htm
Vogue
http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/voguepatterns/shop.cgi


----- Original Message -----
From: Deredere & Owen Iskander <triade@kabelfoon.nl>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price


  
If you find some "Historical" patterns I am very interested.
I live in the Netherlands, and I can't get them so cheap.
Even with paying the shippingcost will still make it worthwile.

Greetings,
        Deredere

Jennifer Sena wrote:

    

     

   

   
  
  

  

  

   



--------------060508000908040102050203--


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 23 11:43:13 2002
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From: sewinggoddess@att.net
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price Help!
X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 23 2002)
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:41:52 +0000
Status: RO

Okay and now a word from a Jo-Ann's fabrics "insider" ... On the saturday after 
thanksgiving ( JUST SATURDAY!Nov, 30th ) all Butterick patterns will be on sale 
for 2 for $1.  

 Deredere-- if you e-mail me privately with your postal address, I'll be glad 
to pick up all of your Butterick patterns for you and mail them to you.

Crissy
>   I am interested in patterns,
> 
> Butterick
>                 3012
>                 3648
>                 3241
>                 3418
>                 3417
>                 3072
>                 6694
> Simplicity
>                 5724
>                 5740
>                 5726
>                 5794
>                 5958
>                 5955
>                 9836
> A Kristmas Carol(don't now the number)
> 
> I don't like McCalls
> 
> And from the Voge patterns I like the historical 11,5"  doll patterns
>                 7555
>                 5955
>                 9836
>                 7557
>                 7253
> 
> I like to collekt patterns but it is so expensive.
> A friend of mine has her own costume business and she uses patterns to 
> make "historical" (wedding) costumes for people.
> And she has more work than she can handle. I am thinking of putting up 
> my own business or maby work togheter with her.
> I like to use a pattern as a base and than adjust it to make it look the 
> way the customer wants.
> It is probably illegal but it happens so often.
> 
> If someone likes to collect patterns for me I would be very happy. I can 
> pay with paypall.
>  I don't need them right now. But if you can collect the patterns and 
> send them away when it is a nice waight it saves also shipping costs.
> And I also would like to pay a little extra for the work finding them 
> and sending them.
> If you can get them for 1$ I'm very happy but 2$ would be good too.
> 
> If someone likes to help me please contact me off list.
> Greetings,
>         Deredere
> 
> 
> >Butterick
> >http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi
> >McCall's
> >http://www.mccallspatterns.com/index.htm
> >Simplicity
> >http://www.simplicity.com/s2b.htm
> >Vogue
> >http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/voguepatterns/shop.cgi
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Deredere & Owen Iskander 
> >To: 
> >Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:45 AM
> >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick 'Costume' patterns half price
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>If you find some "Historical" patterns I am very interested.
> >>I live in the Netherlands, and I can't get them so cheap.
> >>Even with paying the shippingcost will still make it worthwile.
> >>
> >>Greetings,
> >>        Deredere
> >>
> >>Jennifer Sena wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >  
> >
> 
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 23 12:40:38 2002
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From: "Five Rivers" 
To: 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Any word on Folkwear?
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    We carry the full Folkwear line, if you're at all interested. All
available through our website.

Regards
Lorina
Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
supplies
(519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org  email:
info@5rivers.org


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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: [h-cost] bomber
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:42:31 +0100
Status: RO

Hi
Would you know the stupidest thing?
When i ordered the last Kyoto Costume book and the Detailed book from
Williamsburg lately  from Amazon. com. I thoaght everything was ok, when i
saw the bill.
They had taken dollars from the Visa Card.
I always use Amazon Com. in England, so i ordered from USA!
I had no idea you could sign in with your password both in USA and England.
It must have ben because i used the url some of you folks sended!  What a
bomber...........

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Bjarne wrote:

>  What a
> bomber...........

Actually, that's usually spelled bummer, Bjarne, but I like it. I
think I'll suggest it to my daughter as a Teacher-proof alternative to
the original.

best wishes
Stevie

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To: h-costume@indra.com
Cc: Lalah T Tillinghast 
From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
References: <20021122.121310.-157287.2.catpurson@juno.com>
 
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Linda Krecker-Schkred  wrote
>I still live in a home from the 40's. This house was built by my 
>in-Laws. The floors are still the same. No additions have been made.The 
>kitchen and bathroom are still the same. Talk about the epitome of 
>inefficiency. But I do love the clothes from that period. Only my body 
>type wasn't built for that decade. I'm better suited for the 20's.
>
>What about the rest of you. What is your best time period per your body type?
>
>Linda K-S
>
Used to be 20s or 60s - slim and boyish - but getting more 50s every 
year :-(

Jean

-- 
Jean Waddie
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I'm a dead ringer for the Venus of Willendorf.

Kim

>
>What about the rest of you. What is your best time period per your body
type?
>
>Linda K-S


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I said this before - in reference to cassocks.  I forgot to mention that 
they also sell something that might be of interest to h-costers....A 
luggage-type garment bag that will hold full length clothing.  It looks 
just like the ones made by Samsonite, etc., but is long enough to hold a 
cassock, gown, etc.  They fold 3 or 4 times before being fastened like the 
regular ones.  No idea of the price, but they're cool if you have to travel 
(fly) with your long stuff.  A friend (who is a priest as well as a 
costumer) has one - for obvious reasons.

 >One supplier of ready-made ones is C.M. Almy (www.almy.com).

Sandy

"Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly--
Why They Are Simply Doomed."

Achemdro'hm
"The Illusion of Historical Fact"
-- C.Y. 4971

Andromeda


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Subject: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question.
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Hello all...I've been lurking for awhile and thought I'd ask for a bit of
help.  I'm planning my wedding dress and want to do something medieval, but
am having trouble deciding which style to go with.  I'm torn between a
bliaut, a cotehardie, and possibly something else.  The thing is, there are
features of each that I like, but have enough costuming integrity to balk at
mixing elements from different eras.  Wide or boat-necked styles are most
flattering on me, so there I'm leaning towards the cotehardie or late 15th
century kirtle, but I also love long flowing sleeves...however I don't want
a houppelande.  *sigh*  So I just don't know.  Any suggestions?  Are the
styles really so distinct or was there a lot of crossover?  Would the kind
of thing I'm looking for have possibly existed, or am I just going to have
to decide between personal taste and historical accuracy?

-- Maral aka Sarcasm-hime

the den of sarcasm
http://sarcasm.fanfic.org


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Subject: [h-cost] The Saga: Part 3
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I have once again updated the 'To Dress A Queen' dress diary on my
website:

http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/


Hope you enjoy it!



Karen

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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Me, too, for the same reasons you list.  Plus I think the my face type was 
more fashionable in that time period -- long/oval, with a long nose.  (I 
like Elizabethan fashions for the same reason.)  Victorian fashion plates 
showing soft, rounded girls with cute, perky noses do NOT look like me at 
all!  My middle sister, on the other hand, has exactly that kind of face 
and figure.  And my youngest sister looks great in flapper styles.  (shrug)

-- Mara

At 08:22 PM 11/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Baroque, no kidding, really, guess why it's my favourite one. I am not big but
>squishy, and the corsets and bodices squish in the waist, make the perfect
>period conical upper body shape and craete a most gorgeous, classy cleavage
>(according to the part of the population that claims to know *G*) My hips are
>child-bearing and that's perfect for the big silk skirts and bum rolls. 
>Gosh, I
>feel SO sexy in my Baroque gowns. ;-)))
>
>Nicole

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Hm, I can get Burda patterns here in the U.S., maybe I should try them...

-- Mara


At 11:20 PM 11/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>The big companies you emntion are very americacentric (and generally the
>english speaking world)
>In Germany the biggest one is Burda (still my favourite, fits me best of all -
>I must have a Germanic body *L*) you can get Vogue but only in a few 
>places and
>forget about the others. All of the above is according to my mum (in germany)
>who tried to get a Vogue pattern for me last month but couldn't!

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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 06:51:03 -0800
Status: RO


"Herself-the-Elf" 

  Wide or boat-necked styles are most
> flattering on me, so there I'm leaning towards the cotehardie or late 15th
> century kirtle, but I also love long flowing sleeves

What about a fourteenth century cotehardie with tippets.  That would allow
you to wear the boat-neck and have something flowing from your sleeves.
Personally I love the gowns of that time period especially when tippets are
attached.

Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com



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From: Robin Netherton 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question.
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On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Herself-the-Elf wrote:

> Wide or boat-necked styles are most flattering on me, so there I'm
> leaning towards the cotehardie or late 15th century kirtle, but I also
> love long flowing sleeves...however I don't want a houppelande.

There are some styles from the early 15th century that combine the fitted
shape of the "cotehardie" with the trumpet sleeves or wide bag sleeves
typical of the houppelande. You'll see a couple of good examples in the
Tres Riches heures -- look at the lady in green in the May painting, for
instance, and I think there are others in the same sequence. I've seen a
lot of others over the years, in various books on French and Flemish
manuscripts from 1400-1440 or so. I have some in my slide collection, so
if you can't find any on your own, write me directly and I'll send you
some citations.

These would have been fitted overdresses, worn over a supportive fitted
underdress with long fitted sleeves. You can usually see the underdress
sleeves poking out at the cuff or forearm, under the wide trumpet-sleeve
of the overdress. They don't show under the bag sleeves, so if you don't
want to make a second dress for purposes of your wedding (and if you can
get away with the single layer for your support or willing to use a
non-period support solution), you could try a bag-sleeve style. For a
correct period outfit, you'd want both layers.

--Robin


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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
To: h-costume@indra.com
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 --- Kevin + Mara  wrote: > Me, too, for the same reasons you
list.  Plus I think the my face type was 
> more fashionable in that time period -- long/oval, with a long nose.  (I 
> like Elizabethan fashions for the same reason.)  Victorian fashion plates 
> showing soft, rounded girls with cute, perky noses do NOT look like me at 
> all! 

My face isn't right for ANY time period so I think other than German-Russian
20th century bod. *sniff*
I certainly don't look Baroque in my face, except for the double chin when
looking down *grin*, but no lovely hooded dark eyes, no heart shaped little
mouthie, no tiny cutsey nose, but far too high cheekbones, grey-green pale eyes
and a somehow modern looking face. GRRRRRRRR

Anyone ever done any research on period faces? Now that is a fascinating
thought!

Some people look just SO right in their kit.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:36:29 +0100
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Gee, then you and my mom must be twins - her internet ID is vowillendorf
;)))

Gee as for me, I think I'm quite Baroque :)))

Cass :)

> I'm a dead ringer for the Venus of Willendorf.
> 
> Kim
> 
>> 
>> What about the rest of you. What is your best time period per your body
> type?
>> 
>> Linda K-S
> 
> 
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:43:15 -0800
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it is beautiful, but I have a question.  you say that the phoenix dress 
laces in the front.  How can you tell?

I am especially inspired by your use of machine embroidery and hand 
beading.  I had decided to do that with a partlet.  I had to get my machine 
adjusted before I could try it though and it isn't back from the shop.

thanks for sharing your process... maryann

At 01:31 AM 11/24/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>I have once again updated the 'To Dress A Queen' dress diary on my
>website:
>
>http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/
>
>
>Hope you enjoy it!
>
>
>
>Karen
>
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On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:43:15 -0800 MaryAnn Jones 
writes:
> it is beautiful, but I have a question.  you say that the phoenix 
> dress laces in the front.  How can you tell?

Actually, I said that it opens up the front- small but important
difference. There is no indication wether it laces or it uses hooks and
eyes, but I am inclined to the hook and eye theory. I got the information
(although it's there in the portrait once you get past the amazing amount
of decoration and detail) from Jean Hunnisett who made the gowns for
'Elizabeth R' after designs by Janet Arnold. In her book "Period Costume
for Stage and Screen" she shows how the pattern probably looked. If you
look at a good reproduction of the Phoenix Portrait, you can see,
especially by the waist, that there is a double line of twisted velvet(?)
and gold cord which indicates the opening. There are also plenty of
references in "Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe UnLock'd" that indicate that
front opening bodices were fairly common and sometimes back opening
bodices were converted to open up the front. Now all this is somewhat
academic for my dress as I *wanted* mine to open up the back!


> I am especially inspired by your use of machine embroidery and hand 
> beading.  I had decided to do that with a partlet.  I had to get my 
> machine adjusted before I could try it though and it isn't back from
the 
> shop.

Thanks! I hope yours works out to be everything you imagined! My friend
Marie and I plan to do more experiments with her machine to see what we
can come up with next. Can an embroidered partlet be far away?!


Karen

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From: "Karen Verschoor" 
To: <19cWoman@yahoogroups.com>, ,
        ,
        
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Subject: [h-cost] Shameless Plug for Galveston Dickens Fest
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Please excuse the crossposted promotion for the "Dickens on the Strand" =
festival to be held in Galveston, TX, Dec 7-8.

This festival is NOT a commercial event.  It is the major fund raising =
event for the Galveston Historical Society.  All proceeds go to the =
society and are used to support the rennovation of the many historical =
buildings on the island.  Anyone in costume (from street urchin to those =
in high Victorian fashion) get into the festival for free.

Here are are my photos from last year:
http://kverschoor0.tripod.com/dickens.htm

Please feel free to email me privately if you have any questions.

Karen Verschoor
Houston, TX
kverscho@wt.net

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Please excuse the crossposted promotion for the =
"Dickens on=20
the Strand" festival to be held in Galveston, TX, Dec 7-8.


 


This festival is NOT a commercial event.  It =
is the=20
major fund raising event for the Galveston Historical Society.  All =

proceeds go to the society and are used to support the rennovation of =
the many=20
historical buildings on the island.  Anyone in costume (from street =
urchin=20
to those in high Victorian fashion) get into the festival for=20
free.


 


Here are are my photos from last year:


http://kverschoor0.tri=
pod.com/dickens.htm


 


Please feel free to email me privately if you have =
any=20
questions.


 


Karen Verschoor


Houston, TX


kverscho@wt.net


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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:58:09 EST
Status: RO

What a stunner this will be.

My only critisism conserns the shoulder. It looks too high on the arm. In 
your research, the stuffed shoulder gobledegoo is almost....or actually....on 
the upper arm. It appears to be at that "oh so difficult' position of being 
just where the shoulder becomes the arm. 

It seems to be a dilema not unlike the placement of poofs on the 1830s 
bodices being done even as we speak. You two should consult each other.
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I have been asked for help by a friend who is researching the clothing worn 
by women in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance for HUNTING. I am stumped.  
Can anyone on this list please point us to some resources?
Thanks
Elisabeth

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I have been asked for help by a friend who is researching the clothing worn by women in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance for HUNTING. I am stumped.  Can anyone on this list please point us to some resources?

Thanks

Elisabeth

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Subject: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Update
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:53:57 +0100
Status: RO

HI all!

I finally went to the Exhibit at the Bayerische National Museum and was
lucky enough to walk in on a tour in progress being given by none other than
the lady who organized the whole thing, Birgitt Borkop. It was a great tour
and since it was for a group of ladies from a textile institute in
Switzerland, I think there were extra details given than aren't normally.
Afterwards I talked to here about the catalog and stuff. I told her there
were several people in the States and in England who are interested in
getting it and she was apologetic about the credit card problem but there
was nothing she could do about. She said 2000 were printed, 350 have been
sold so far 6 weeks into the exhibit. She is talking with some of her
contacts in the States about seeing if she can't get some of them to some
museum shops in the States. There won't be an English translation since they
don't have the resources for printing for such a relatively small audience.

She said she was going to send me something in English about the exhibit -
hopefully it will come tomorrow by email and then I will pass it on.

Getting the book from the museum store costs 25 Euros plus 5.10 for bookrate
shipping by boot, whether to England (2 weeks?) or to the States and will
take 4-8 weeks. Airmail to the States alone costs 27.50 Euros (argh!)

She also said anytime I wanted I could call her and make an appointment to
see anything in their collection which is not on display. If I recall
correctly, they have about 80,000 items, though some are just buttons but
others are complete outfits. I intend to hopefully soon get a better idea of
what they don't have on display.

She also knows English and is totally willing to give tours in English when
arranged in advance. This is her baby so she is very excited that I am
helping to spread the word.

She also has my contact info to let me know by mail when other interesting
things come up and then I will even be invited to premeres and stuff :)))

She gave me the website of the guy (Johannes Pietsch) who helped restore the
pieces on display for this exhibit (and who would be teaching that class to
make the men's lederkoller). I went to his site and he actually has the
pattern for the one men's slit jacket pictured on my website.

http://www.kostuemforschung.de/1207.html

http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum4.html (the one on the top
right)

And as a nifty detail from one of the religious embroidered things they had
that show tulips (the wild, stripped kind): she said that tulips came from
Turkey and the ones they valued were the skinny pointy kind with a pure
color and didn't make it to central Europe until the mid 16th century. The
wild ones actually came about due to a virus that infected the bulbs and
resulted in all sorts of wird mutations -which stayed around and resulted in
the tulip craze in Holland. This info helps date pieces because if they
appear then it had to be after the intro date. :)))

As I remember details I'll try to post them.

(BTW as a sidenote, I told her I had scanned some of the pictures and put
them online -the ones with patterns in the book so people would have a
chance to get a small taste of what is in the book, and she said yeah -
someone already 'told on me' someone who apparently didn't think it was
appropriate that I did this. 'Oh that was you - you must be cassandra
greer'.  So she had even been to the site. At any rate she was happy I did
it and said I could keep it up since she is happy for all the advertisement
for this that she can get - especially since the sole purpose for me putting
it up was to get people interested in the book -since the museum website
doesn't even mention it. As for the person who 'told on me', it would have
been nice if they had said something to me first instead of being a 'tattle
tail'.)


Cass :)

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Jane Williams wrote:

> On 23 Nov 2002 at 2:06, chiara wrote:
>
> > The price on it is "1/6 plus
> > purchase tax in Great Britain and Northern Ireland". I fear I must
> > plead ignorance at what the price actually is.
>
> One shilling and sixpence. A form of currency that
> went out when I was rather small. I seem to
> remember the shilling converted to 5p, so that's
> about 7.5p: about ten US cents, at a guess? There
> has been inflation since :)
>

Actually, I think the sixpence became 5p and the shilling 10p. The coins
were
still in circulation as these denominations when I was a kiddie.
Claire

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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Sue Clemenger wrote:

> For me? I dunno--anything that's okay with curves. I'd never look my
> best in stuff that emphasizes vertical lines (Burgundian, or Regency, or
> 1920s/30s).  Anything that's okay with -uhm- copious cleavage and a
> contrast between larger hips and bust and a smaller waist.  I'd be great
> for Victorian stuff, I think.  I do ItalianRen pretty good, as well as
> late 16th/most of 17th. I've noticed, in my SCA-clothing experience,
> that the stuff that looks most flattering is stuff that can be fitted to
> some degree.
> My biggest challenge (outside of current size, which is too big) is my
> lack of height--I'm only 5'5", but have really broad shoulders and hips.
> I end up needing stuff simultaneously scaled up and scaled down, if that
> makes any sense....

I'm in the same boat as you Sue, apart from the shoulders, and being even shorter.
I can carry off most things that differentiate between bust, hips and waist, but it's

difficult to achieve the right look with vertically lined clothing. It's a shame
because
I really love later Edwardian clothes. I suspect I'd do really well in earlier
Victorian
stuff because I also have a little round head and tiny feet, but I'd need an awful
lot
of icky sticky stuff to make my hair all smooth like that....

Claire

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I dunno.  I tried, and didn't have any luck either.... ;-(
--sue

Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
> 
> Are the photos of Bishop Bob still accessable?  I'm not a memeber of the
> Paternosters group, and I don't seem to be able to get to the photo gallery
> from the group page.
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:46:21 -0700
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*laughs*
My hair is smooth, but beyond baby-fine.  If I were seriously into
Victorian/Edwardian recreation, I'd probably have to use a wig....As it
is, I just cover it up with hats and coifs and veils for SCA usage....
Having just seen Lord of the Rings for the first time last night, I've
decided I look like a cross between a hobbit and a dwarf.  Maybe in my
next life I'll get to be an elf....*gusty sigh*
--sue

Claire Clarke wrote:
> 

> I'm in the same boat as you Sue, apart from the shoulders, and being even shorter.
> I can carry off most things that differentiate between bust, hips and waist, but it's
> 
> difficult to achieve the right look with vertically lined clothing. It's a shame
> because
> I really love later Edwardian clothes. I suspect I'd do really well in earlier
> Victorian
> stuff because I also have a little round head and tiny feet, but I'd need an awful
> lot
> of icky sticky stuff to make my hair all smooth like that....
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In a message dated 11/24/2002 3:29:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
BOSTONHAHN@aol.com writes:

> Middle Ages and the Renaissance for HUNTING. I am stumped.  Can anyone on 
> this list please point us to some resources? 
> 

Try some of the books of hours, like the Duc de Berry's?
Ann Wass

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In a message dated 11/24/2002 3:29:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, BOSTONHAHN@aol.com writes:




Middle Ages and the Renaissance for HUNTING. I am stumped.  Can anyone on this list please point us to some resources? 






Try some of the books of hours, like the Duc de Berry's?

Ann Wass

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At 2:39 PM -0700 11/24/02, Sue Clemenger wrote:
>I dunno.  I tried, and didn't have any luck either.... ;-(
>--sue
>
>Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
>>
>>  Are the photos of Bishop Bob still accessable?  I'm not a memeber of the
>>  Paternosters group, and I don't seem to be able to get to the photo gallery
>  > from the group page.

Hmmm. Well, _I_ can get to them, but that doesn't help much. Yahoo 
does "burp" now and then when it's busy. If anyone tries several 
times over a couple of days and _still_ can't get it to open, let me 
know.
-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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*droool*....(for the cap and your plans!)
Where in Bath is the ball going to be? What are you planning for the
rest of your outfit?
--Sue, who loved Bath, the Costume Museum, the Pump Room, and general
walking-around but didn't get to see the Assembly Rooms
(*sniff*....there was some sort of convention/meeting, the day we went) 


Stevie Gamble wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Well, I am now the proud owner of a 'lovely late 18th Century cap back
> '
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=920034761&rd=1
> 
> for my costume for the Georgian Ball at Bath next spring. Gulp.
> I have found a reference to lace cap backs at the Honiton lace museum,
> but it doesn't tell me anything about cap fronts. Or, indeed, whether
> there were any fronts.
> Help!
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Thank you, but she mainly needs Women in Hunting scenes, specifically what 
type of clothing would they have worn.  Pants under skirts?  Same as 
regularly?  
Elisabeth

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Thank you, but she mainly needs Women in Hunting scenes, specifically what type of clothing would they have worn.  Pants under skirts?  Same as regularly?  

Elisabeth

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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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At 04:02 PM 11/24/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>My face isn't right for ANY time period so I think other than German-Russian
>20th century bod. *sniff*
>I certainly don't look Baroque in my face, except for the double chin when
>looking down *grin*, but no lovely hooded dark eyes, no heart shaped little
>mouthie, no tiny cutsey nose, but far too high cheekbones, grey-green pale 
>eyes
>and a somehow modern looking face. GRRRRRRRR

Ha!  I don't have any of that stuff either.  Very strong features, high 
forehead, long nose...  But compared to the extremely soft features favored 
in the 19th century, my face generally works better for the late 16th/early 
17th and mid-18th centuries.

>Anyone ever done any research on period faces? Now that is a fascinating
>thought!

No, just personal observation, actually, that certain face types were more 
'in fashion' than others at various times...  But if you think about it, 
the same facial types _have_ been around in the periods where they weren't 
fashionable, too.  It's just not what was 'in'.

>Some people look just SO right in their kit.
>
>Nicole

Yes, isn't it interesting?  I'm afraid one habit I have is looking at 
people on the street and figuring out what stereotypical period/location 
their face would 'work' for.  I saw a guy in Starbucks the other day who 
would just look SO good in Viking gear...  Prominent hawkish nose and chin, 
blonde hair, high cheekbones, impressive mustache...

Cheers,
Mara

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Yeah!
--Sue

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> Saragrace T. Knauf
> 25313 West Illini Street
> Buckeye, AZ 85326-6431
> 
> I have been in contact with an Irish linen provider from New York as
> well.  His nicest (about 3.5 oz/yard) sells for $15 yard whole sale.
> (The not as nice [2.5 oz/yard] but still very nice is $13.00 yard) I am
> toying with the idea of buying a couple hundred yards and reselling at
> cost plus shipping.  Would anyone be interested?
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From: "Herself-the-Elf" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question.
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Hmm, thanks everybody!  The Tres Riches Heures pictures offer some variety,
which is good as I'm not overly fond of tippets.

-- Maral

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question.


>
> On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Herself-the-Elf wrote:
>
> > Wide or boat-necked styles are most flattering on me, so there I'm
> > leaning towards the cotehardie or late 15th century kirtle, but I also
> > love long flowing sleeves...however I don't want a houppelande.
>
> There are some styles from the early 15th century that combine the fitted
> shape of the "cotehardie" with the trumpet sleeves or wide bag sleeves
> typical of the houppelande. You'll see a couple of good examples in the
> Tres Riches heures -- look at the lady in green in the May painting, for
> instance, and I think there are others in the same sequence. I've seen a
> lot of others over the years, in various books on French and Flemish
> manuscripts from 1400-1440 or so. I have some in my slide collection, so
> if you can't find any on your own, write me directly and I'll send you
> some citations.
>
> These would have been fitted overdresses, worn over a supportive fitted
> underdress with long fitted sleeves. You can usually see the underdress
> sleeves poking out at the cuff or forearm, under the wide trumpet-sleeve
> of the overdress. They don't show under the bag sleeves, so if you don't
> want to make a second dress for purposes of your wedding (and if you can
> get away with the single layer for your support or willing to use a
> non-period support solution), you could try a bag-sleeve style. For a
> correct period outfit, you'd want both layers.
>
> --Robin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:07:11 -0600
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Hi, all!  This message pertains to Karen's post, but I am interested in any
and all advice I can get!  :-)

I am a lurker on the h-cost site, and I wondered if you (Karen Verschoor)
are the wearer of the blue/purple (or whatever - can't exactly tell from the
photos...) changeable silk (taffeta?) 1830's gown with the paletot?  What a
stunning dress, as are the rest of them in your collection of photos!  Did
you also make your hat?  I'm wondering what patterns you used, and how much
drafting and tweaking you did.  I do historic reenactment for our local
Historic Arkansas Museum (I'm in Little Rock) and there aren't many folks to
talk "shop" with around here.  Our period is c. 1828 to c. 1850.  I've used
some patterns from Patterns of History (I think...can't remember - may have
been Past Patterns?) to make a pre-1836 gown (a day dress, not fancy like
yours) an 1857 with a hoop and a fan-front late 1840's.  All were
successful, just wondering if you had any advice.  (I'm currently obsessed
with Renaissance garb, and recently went to TRF.  Wow!!!!!)

Keep up the good work, all you sewers!

Allison

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From: "Allison Thurman" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Body/Face types
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Been reading the thread on what your perfect period for your body type is.
I'm not completely convinced I'm fashionable for any of them, but my guesses
are Regency and Early 20th century (Paul Poiret, Erte). I am all shoulders
and bust with slim hips and no waist, so any fashions that emphasize the
waist are right out. I used to think I'd make a convincing flapper, but not
without a bust-flattener.

My face and hair look like nothing I've seen in any of my fashion history
books, but that's what makeup/wigs are for!

Allison

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Body/Face types





Been reading the thread on what your perfect period =
for your body type is. I'm not completely convinced I'm fashionable for =
any of them, but my guesses are Regency and Early 20th century (Paul =
Poiret, Erte). I am all shoulders and bust with slim hips and no waist, =
so any fashions that emphasize the waist are right out. I used to think =
I'd make a convincing flapper, but not without a =
bust-flattener.



My face and hair look like nothing I've seen in any of =
my fashion history books, but that's what makeup/wigs are for!




Allison





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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:36:16 -0800
Status: RO

Manesse Codex, early 14th century
http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/029.jpg

liz
lizyoung@fenris.net
BOSTONHAHN@aol.com wrote:

> Thank you, but she mainly needs Women in Hunting scenes, specifically 
> what type of clothing would they have worn.  Pants under skirts?  Same 
> as regularly?  
> Elisabeth


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Subject: [h-cost] Restoration of the Eleonora de Toledo gown?
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Hi all,

I found an article that mentions, in passing, the
restoration of the Eleonora de Toledo, Cosimo de
Medici and their son Garzia de Medici's clothing in
Palazzo Pitti. The page is labelled "News 1997", so
I'm presuming this is old news. Does anyone know
anything about this? I was thinking that perhaps these
would be part of the upcoming exhibition on
Renaissance silks in Chicago (if my memory serves).

Here's an excerpt:

"He later spent two weeks in Florence at the Palazzo
Pitti where museum conservators have completed the
restoration of the 16th Century burial garments of
Cosimo I, his wife Eleonara di Toledo and their son
Don Garzia di Medici. 

The 10-year project transformed the brittle,
430-year-old rags into glorious silk velvet pantaloons
and resulted in a reconstruction of Eleonara’s dress,
on which almost all of the bodice and sumptuous gold
embroidery had survived."

From:




Bella


http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper
- Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper!
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I think tippets are an acquired taste, very strange to modern eyes, and
incredibly impractical but they do create a movement almost like a dancer
with ribbons which can be beautiful especially if worn by a group.  Maybe I
just like the fourteenth century.  I actually developed a liking for my
plats that hung from my circlet in a way that made me look like a Swiss
yodeler and initially I thought that would be reason enough to say away from
the time period entirely.   Anyway, my best wishes with your gown and your
wedding tool

Lisa

From: "Herself-the-Elf" 
> Hmm, thanks everybody!  The Tres Riches Heures pictures offer some
variety,
> which is good as I'm not overly fond of tippets.
>
> -- Maral
>



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> I dunno.  I tried, and didn't have any luck either.... ;-(
> --sue
> 
> Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
> > 
> > Are the photos of Bishop Bob still accessable?  I'm not a memeber of the
> > Paternosters group, and I don't seem to be able to get to the photo gallery
> > from the group page.

You have to login to your Yahoo account to view the photo album.  Even
though it's not restricted.  Whee.  One more reason for me to consider
moving the mailing lists _I_ have a degree of control over just about 
anywhere else.

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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That's *cute.* I don't _have_ a yahoo account.  Bummer.
--sue

Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
> 
> You have to login to your Yahoo account to view the photo album.  Even
> though it's not restricted.  Whee.  One more reason for me to consider
> moving the mailing lists _I_ have a degree of control over just about
> anywhere else.
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Middle Ages and the Renaissance for HUNTING. I am stumped.  Can anyone on
this list please point us to some resources?

Try some of the books of hours, like the Duc de Berry's?
Ann Wass

Actually, Ann understood the question.  She's thinking of the well-known
calendar page in The Tres Riches Heures of Jean, Duke of Berry.    The month
of August shows 3 women riding out (sidesaddle) hawking.  The 1 lady who is
alone on her horse may have her own hawk; the others do not.   Two are in
fairly elaborate houplands, the other in the fitted, off the shoulder dress
that is in several other calendar pages.

Janet
Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http:/www.medievalbookstore.com

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Middle Ages and the Renaissance for HUNTING. I am=20
stumped.  Can anyone on this list please point us to some =
resources?=20


Try some of the=20
books of hours, like the Duc de Berry's?
Ann=20
Wass 

Actually,=20
Ann understood the question.  She's thinking of the well-known =
calendar=20
page in The Tres Riches Heures of Jean, Duke of Berry.  =

  The month of August shows 3 women riding out =
(sidesaddle)=20
hawking.  The 1 lady who is alone on her horse may have her own =
hawk; the=20
others do not.   Two are in fairly elaborate houplands, the =
other in=20
the fitted, off the shoulder dress that is in several other calendar=20
pages.


 


Janet




Janet Davis


Castle Furnishings


http:/www.medievalbookstore.com=20



------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2940D.B973E0A0--

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Kevin + Mara wrote:

> No, just personal observation, actually, that certain face types were
> more 'in fashion' than others at various times...  But if you think
> about it, the same facial types _have_ been around in the periods
> where they weren't fashionable, too.  It's just not what was 'in'.

Well, actually, I don't think the facial types were anywhere near as
heterogenous in historical periods as in the past century, which has had
far more transience and cultural intermarriage than any preceding era.

Historically, certain facial and body types and coloring would be typical
of certain countries and regions. Fashions of those countries/regions
would then develop to suit those facial and body types. The gene pool
issue is probably an important factor in the differences in regional
styles -- particularly headdress -- from, say, Northern to Southern
Europe, or Eastern to Western.

This point first came home to me about 10 years ago. My research partner
-- a tall, big-boned, blonde Germanic woman -- had just acquired a
headdress made in the medieval Russian style. This is one of those things
that comes down around the sides, and has dangly bits falling in a line
across the forehead like bangs. On her, it certainly looked imposing, but
also, well, costumey. On a lark, she popped it on my head. Now, I should
note that I'm full-blooded Ukranian (with some Middle Eastern genes mixed
in back many centuries ago). When that headress went around my face, both
my friend and my husband gasped. The shape framed my face perfectly. It
brought out my eyes, hid my short forehead, and turned my pointed chin
into an asset. I really looked like the people in the paintings on which
the headdress was based. Of course! I had the same genetic type. I have
never looked at Russian art with the same eyes since.

Naturally, though, I work almost exclusively in Flemish, French, and
English fashion, in places and periods where a high forehead and long oval
face are predominant. I look lousy in these styles.

One of my Flemish art books, in fact, has a section comparing photographs
of modern Flemish people side-by-side with faces from medieval Flemish
painting. The resemblances were uncanny, even for some of the more
bizarre-looking individuals from Bosch paintings!

I do look good in Italian, as I have a good resemblance to the
Mediterranean facial type. I am mistaken for Greek regularly (though
native Ukranians will spot me at a distance and recognize me as Ukranian).
These are not places/periods I will ever wear, but I'm certainly designed
for them.

Regional genetics have a lot to do with body types, too -- not just size,
but also proportions. I remember once watching an American Scottish-dance
troupe at a Highland Games festival. The troupe had one member who was
Japanese by blood. All were dressed in traditional Highland dress. It was
obvious at a glance that the Japanese man's body was quite different in
proportion -- his torso was much longer in proportion to his legs. His
moves were fine, and his overall height no different, but the angles were
all wrong for the clothing.

There was once a discussion on this list in which some of the European
h-costumers were trying to explain how they could tell a group of
costumed reenactors were Americans in a set of photos. No one could put a
finger on just how, till we realized that the American group didn't have a
distinctive facial/body type -- it was hugely heterogenous. Here in the
States, we're used to that wide degree of difference, because we
encounter many people of different genetic backgrounds on a daily basis.
In many parts of Europe, and even more elsewhere in the world, there's
still a distinct regional "type," and the visitor will often stand out as 
different. 

Moreover, many Americans now are second- or third-generation (or more)
intercultural. So, while I might be recognizably "Ukranian" in type, my
kids won't be recognizably anything -- because they're a combination of my
genes and those of my husband, who has a solid English genetic background.
There will always be some kid who display a visual resemblance strongly to
one line or other, but the more mixing, the more rearrangement of the
genetic patterns into ever-more-diverse combinations.

--Robin

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Although she is not hunting, just riding, the picture of the Wife of
Bath seems to show her astride, with her skirts in a sort of bag (I think
this is more clear in a color reproduction.)
http://mw.mcmaster.ca/scriptorium/images/3004w-WifeofBath.html

Janet
Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http:/www.medievalbookstore.com

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Nov 25 00:10:58 2002
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I am a lurker but I have to answer this one.  If you have seen the
primitive carving of the earth mother - godesses figure with the round
body and overly full bust, big hips, and waist that is me :)

So I don't fill like I currently look like any period. Oh well, one
day maybe I will get my shape back.

jonica

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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:41:49 -0800
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Oh dear. Sorry, I didn't realize that.

Once I figure out how, I _do_ plan on moving all my stuff over to my 
home page, which _isn't_ on Yahoo. But that may take a while.

I'll let people know when I do; not much else I can do about it right now.

(If someone else wants to download them from Yahoo and make them more 
generally available, please e-mail me privately _FIRST_, so I can be 
sure it's OK with Nancy, Bishop Bob's owner.)

At 7:21 PM -0700 11/24/02, Sue Clemenger wrote:
>That's *cute.* I don't _have_ a yahoo account.  Bummer.
>--sue
>
>Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
>>
>>  You have to login to your Yahoo account to view the photo album.  Even
>>  though it's not restricted.  Whee.  One more reason for me to consider
>>  moving the mailing lists _I_ have a degree of control over just about
>  > anywhere else.

-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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From: "Jane Williams" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:40:32 -0000
Status: RO

> Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
> > 
> > You have to login to your Yahoo account to view the photo album. 
> > Even though it's not restricted.  Whee.  One more reason for me to
> > consider moving the mailing lists _I_ have a degree of control over
> > just about anywhere else.

On 24 Nov 2002 at 19:21, Sue Clemenger wrote:

> That's *cute.* I don't _have_ a yahoo account.  Bummer.
> --sue

It isn't all that hard to set up a Yahoo ID, link it to an 
existing email address, and join a group (says the 
person who runs a dozen groups and is a  member 
of about 30 more).

So if you really want to see those piccies, they are 
visible. But I agree that however easy, it's a degree 
of hassle. 

And it also means that Yahoo is lying: I just checked 
my groups (the FarIsles one, piccies of Teddy's 
coronation and so on), 
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/farisles/lst
and it says photos are visible to anyone. But it looks 
like they're not :(




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> From: "Jane Williams" 
>
> It isn't all that hard to set up a Yahoo ID, link it to an 
> existing email address, and join a group (says the 
> person who runs a dozen groups and is a  member 
> of about 30 more).

And it means you end up on Yahoo's spamlist, unless you 
remember to reset all your preferences...

> And it also means that Yahoo is lying: I just checked 
> my groups (the FarIsles one, piccies of Teddy's 
> coronation and so on), 
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/farisles/lst
> and it says photos are visible to anyone. But it looks 
> like they're not :(

Unfortunately, Yahoo has an established pattern of changing
things without telling anyone.  Usually to our detriment, not
theirs.  I went back and checked what my preferences were set 
to after this latest change.  Because you just never know...

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:16:07 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Robin Netherton  wrote: > 

> There was once a discussion on this list in which some of the European
> h-costumers were trying to explain how they could tell a group of
> costumed reenactors were Americans in a set of photos. No one could put a
> finger on just how, till we realized that the American group didn't have a
> distinctive facial/body type -- it was hugely heterogenous. 

Actually Robin, I completely disagree. I can tell most of the time (unless the
person comes from a distinct genetic ethnic background, like Asian etc.) when
someone is American. It is NOT because of being heterogenous, on the contrary,
there is a look about them, which - please don't kill me I don't mean that
nastily - looks like a plasticky Barbie doll to me. The faces looked just plain
wrong in the historic clothing (so does mine, unless I do a Russian or polish
type, similar to you. I can do a Byzantine Queen *hey, now that's a thought!*) 

I do think that there has been already a forming of an 'American' gene pool but
I don't think it will worry the big country too much because so many people
from all over the world are constantly flowing in and probably inter-marry. I
suppose.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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 --- Kevin + Mara  wrote: > 

> their face would 'work' for.  I saw a guy in Starbucks the other day who 
> would just look SO good in Viking gear...  Prominent hawkish nose and chin, 
> blonde hair, high cheekbones, impressive mustache...

Hehe, just good for me then that in the Eddas the Viking warriors are described
as being clean shaven, I mean the chap you describe, but withouit a moustache
and long finely combed golden hair... *whimper* 

Uhm, back to work. :-)

Nicole

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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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> --- Robin Netherton  wrote: >
> 
>> There was once a discussion on this list in which some of the European
>> h-costumers were trying to explain how they could tell a group of
>> costumed reenactors were Americans in a set of photos. No one could put a
>> finger on just how, till we realized that the American group didn't have a
>> distinctive facial/body type -- it was hugely heterogenous.
> 
> Actually Robin, I completely disagree. I can tell most of the time (unless the
> person comes from a distinct genetic ethnic background, like Asian etc.) when
> someone is American. It is NOT because of being heterogenous, on the contrary,
> there is a look about them, which - please don't kill me I don't mean that
> nastily - looks like a plasticky Barbie doll to me. The faces looked just
> plain
> wrong in the historic clothing (so does mine, unless I do a Russian or polish
> type, similar to you. I can do a Byzantine Queen *hey, now that's a thought!*)
> 
> I do think that there has been already a forming of an 'American' gene pool
> but
> I don't think it will worry the big country too much because so many people
> from all over the world are constantly flowing in and probably inter-marry. I
> suppose.
> 
> Nicole

My theory:
I am American but I have been in Germany for 11 of the past 18 years. I can
spot an American a mile a way about 95% of the time.  But I don't know if it
really has something to do with the actual body type of that person
(including at least for me ethnic background) but rather to how they hold
and move their body and facial expressions - this seems to be me to be
rather homogenous. There are quite a few blacks from Africa here but I can
pick out the black Americans no problem. There is also a varied Asian
population but the Asian Americans are totally obvious to me. Americans do a
lot more smiling than many other cultural groups and are in general a lot
more open, also physically, when communication with others if only through a
picture. I have also found (also with myself) that the longer an American is
here in Germany the less likely I am to spot he or she is American without
talking to them first. They tend to start taking on the physical/emotional
mannerisms of the locals. Americans look 'wrong' in pictures of period
clothes (any period) because while they may be wearing authentic clothes
they are not holding themselves authentically - this was also discussed in
relation to that online photo exhibit of those women dressed and appearing
in turn of the century scenery.
This would make a really fascinating Masters or Doctoral thesis in
anthropology (if it hasn't already been done)!

Cass :)

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Unfortunately, I will be unable to attend your event.  Not only do I live 
in the wrong state for it, I will be at the San Francisco Dickens' Fair 
that weekend.  Ours (a commercial event) runs from the weekend right after 
Thanksgiving to the weekend of December 21-22.  Discount tickets are 
available thru participants, if they e-mail (me) off-list.

>Please excuse the crossposted promotion for the "Dickens on the Strand" 
>festival to be held in Galveston, TX, Dec 7-8.
>
>This festival is NOT a commercial event.  It is the major fund raising 
>event for the Galveston Historical Society.  All proceeds go to the 
>society and are used to support the rennovation of the many historical 
>buildings on the island.  Anyone in costume (from street urchin to those 
>in high Victorian fashion) get into the festival for free.
>
>Here are are my photos from last year:
>http://kverschoor0.tripod.com/dickens.htm
>
>Please feel free to email me privately if you have any questions.
>
>Karen Verschoor
>Houston, TX
>kverscho@wt.net


Kayta

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Status: RO



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> Lady_Angharad@bigpond.com 11/25/02 02:31pm >>>


Jane Williams wrote:

> On 23 Nov 2002 at 2:06, chiara wrote:
>
> > The price on it is "1/6 plus
> > purchase tax in Great Britain and Northern Ireland". I fear I must
> > plead ignorance at what the price actually is.
>
> One shilling and sixpence. A form of currency that
> went out when I was rather small. I seem to
> remember the shilling converted to 5p, so that's
> about 7.5p: about ten US cents, at a guess? There
> has been inflation since :)
>

Actually, I think the sixpence became 5p and the shilling 10p. The coins
were
still in circulation as these denominations when I was a kiddie.
Claire

No, Jane is correct. There were 20 shillings in a pound, so a shilling became 5 new pence in 1971. The sixpence did remain in circulation for a time (as  2  ½ p), as did the shilling and two-shilling piece, but the present 5 and 10p coins are smaller than the old versions.


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I'm going to add my bit on a slight side tangent and I hope this makes sense

I  remember an article in a sewing magazine about the effect of light in 
different countries and this is my take/expansion on it. Colours that look 
fine in say northern Europe look different say in Sydney Australia because 
of the amount of sunlight, the background colours (particularly true when 
against a more natural environment, compare the green of English hedgerows 
and meadows to the reddy soils and dry (yellowish) greens of fields that 
you get around Southern Australia), and how often its overcast, things like 
that. If you have a habit of picking colours certain colours that look fine 
where you live may look startling in a different context like a different 
part of the world.

Also, speaking as someone who is an odd mix of blood, different colours and 
different hairstyles  bring out different elements of that. Most of the 
time the Scots/Irish/English/Scandinavian seems to dominate, that and the 
fact I have a lot of English mannerisms from living in the UK tend to make 
most people say I'm British. But certain colours (red, black,) sit not 
quite right for that descent, the undertones to my skin and the eyebrows 
and the eyes are not quite right for that and if people are cluey enough 
they can pick the darker Spanish blood.

But there are certain habits, mannerisms that can scream that such and such 
a person is of that ethnic background.

Likewise certain traits, facial characteristics occur more with certain 
ethnic backgrounds and if you know what to look for it can be picked up on. 
Sometimes because a person is 6th or 7th or more generation Australian or 
American it can be a lot harder but I know people who can pick the dominant 
ethnic background correctly.

I always wondered when I was growing what basis somebody's nationality was 
defined by. I know didn't have to open my mouth for the accent to give it 
away. Children are quick to pick up differences to themselves. I spent a 
few years being confused as to what nationality I was and I still don't 
think I have a solid answer.

Sharon Nevin

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>Anyone ever done any research on period faces? Now that is a fascinating
>thought!

No, just personal observation, actually, that certain face types were more 
'in fashion' than others at various times...  But if you think about it, 
the same facial types _have_ been around in the periods where they weren't 
fashionable, too.  It's just not what was 'in'.

>Some people look just SO right in their kit.
>
>Nicole

Yes, isn't it interesting?  I'm afraid one habit I have is looking at 
people on the street and figuring out what stereotypical period/location 
their face would 'work' for.  I saw a guy in Starbucks the other day who 
would just look SO good in Viking gear...  Prominent hawkish nose and chin, 
blonde hair, high cheekbones, impressive mustache...

Cheers,
Mara

Yes, that interests me too. I sometimes notice a reenactor who looks exactly right, and not just because of accurate clothing and  hairstyle and/or beard, but because of their face.

My straight-up-and-down figure would suit 1920s or Regency, I suppose (though I believe Queen Henrietta Maria was petite, at least before she had 9 children); but my extremely thick hair would suit Victorian. When it was long many years ago I did once do it up like the young Queen Victoria, with a bun and plaits looped round the ears. As for my face (large-featured), I was once told it looked 18th century! 
_


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: body type periods,
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:58:36 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Sharon Nevin  wrote: > 
> that. If you have a habit of picking colours certain colours that look fine 
> where you live may look startling in a different context like a different 
> part of the world.

If I may quickly add an observation here, this is realy very true what Sharon
says. I speak not of costume colours here but the colour of my newly painted
room, which is a very rich ruby red, which looks fantastic in far-too-often
overcast and grey England, but I wonder what it will look like in summer,
having the funny feeling it will look quite garish when the sun belts into the
room. I decorated the room for 'winter' because it is more often overcast here
than cloudless, and it has a wonderful feel to it, all red and christmas green
and gold stencilled, but if I lived in Australia, I would have NEVER done that,
because of Sharon's observations.

I believe indeed that the same/similar goes for costumes/clothes.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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 --- Cassandra Greer  wrote: > > -
> This would make a really fascinating Masters or Doctoral thesis in
> anthropology (if it hasn't already been done)!
> 

If it has been done I want it!!!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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<>
Claire

<>

Claire is correct if she's thinking of New Zealand coinage;) The old
sixpence became the 5c and the shilling the 10c. Still get a few of the old
coinage and they are the same size then as now. But different from UK
currency. I have no idea about Aussie currency but as our 5-20c pieces are
fairly interchangeable (same size but Aussie is slightly heavier I believe
and the surfaces are different) the same thing might have happened there?

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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At 06:31 AM 11/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Actually, I think the sixpence became 5p and the shilling 10p. The coins
>were
>still in circulation as these denominations when I was a kiddie.

There was 20 shillings to the pound which meant that there was two 
shillings to make a tenth of a pound, in other words two shillings equalled 
10 pence. For those interested the scale went:

12 pence = 1 shilling (5 new pence)
20 shillings = 1 pound
5 shillings = 1 crown (25 new pence)
2 shillings = 1 florin
21 shillings = 1 guinea (105 new pence)

I remember the fiasco when we went over to the decimal coinage and every 
shopkeeper in the nation took the opportunity to fleece the public by 
raising their prices hoping that nobody would notice. For that reason I 
dread the day when the UK joins the Euro.

Lissa

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on 11/25/02 3:39 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com at
h-costume-request@indra.com wrote:

> Send h-costume mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: A request (Elizabeth Young)
> 2. Restoration of the Eleonora de Toledo gown? (=?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?=)
> 3. Re: De-lurking...with a medieval question. (Lisa Sinervo)
> 4. Re: Bishop Bob? (Lee Thompson-Herbert)
> 5. Re: Bishop Bob? (Sue Clemenger)
> 6. RE: A request (Janet Davis)
> 7. Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House (Robin Netherton)
> 8. RE: A request (Janet Davis)
> 9. Re: Body/Face types (jlkelley)
> 10. Re: Bishop Bob? (Chris Laning)
> 11. Re: Bishop Bob? (Jane Williams)
> 12. Re: Bishop Bob? (Lee Thompson-Herbert)
> 13. Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
> (=?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?=)
> 14. Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House (Cassandra Greer)
> 
> --__--__--
Hey Elisabeth, everyone,
The lady in question is looking for garb appropriate to hound coursing.
She'll be "catching" the hounds and holding them between her knees, so she
wants something split or more in the way of pants. I get the feeling she's
looking at the 14/15th centry clothing. I'd suggested a less full cotehardie
split in the front over a fuller underdress, or a houppeland over pants or
heavy hose. 
I'd love to hear what you come up with, cuz I'm stumped.
Laurie/Isabeau  

> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:36:16 -0800
> From: Elizabeth Young 
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A request
> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
> Manesse Codex, early 14th century
> http://www.tempora-nostra.de/manesse/img/029.jpg
> 
> liz
> lizyoung@fenris.net
> BOSTONHAHN@aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Thank you, but she mainly needs Women in Hunting scenes, specifically
>> what type of clothing would they have worn.  Pants under skirts?  Same
>> as regularly?  
>> Elisabeth

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Subject: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:24:38 GMT
Status: RO

Cassandra Greer  wrote :
> My theory:
> I am American but I have been in Germany for 11 of the past 18 years. I can
> spot an American a mile a way about 95% of the time.  But I don't know if it
> really has something to do with the actual body type of that person
> (including at least for me ethnic background) but rather to how they hold
> and move their body and facial expressions - this seems to be me to be
> rather homogenous. ...

> Americans do a
> lot more smiling than many other cultural groups and are in general a lot
> more open, also physically, when communication with others if only through a
> picture. 

My (tentative) observations would be that Americans (at  least the ones I notice as being Americans) tend to try to occupy as much space as possible. Which makes them looks rude and pushy: probably why those are the ones I notice! Yes, it's a semi-circular argument :)




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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:37:41 -0500 (EST)
Status: RO

I've been told, when I'm dressed up like a flemish marketwoman, that I
look just right for the part--wide, ruddy cheeks, snubby nose, rounded
chin. I'm 15/16ths scandinavian, so the american genetic dilution hasn't
quite taken hold yet.

I do make a point to try to remember to walk and hold myself like the
pictures--hips a bit more forward, shoulders back. It's actually a
comfortable position when you have a corset or a very closely laced kirtle
on.

 I've noticed definite differences in European populations, though.  In
Ireland, many of the men have shorter legs and longo torsos than American
men.  In Austria, potato-type faces with broad stubby noses abound.  In
Norway, everyone is just so danged good-looking, it's positively
eerie...there were more runway-model cheekbones and legs at the Oslo
train station than I'd seen anywhere on the entire continent.

On that subtle difference between Europeans and Americans (until they
open their mouths, that is:) Americans have the best orthodontics and
teeth I've seen, better (on average) than those I saw in Europe. They
seem to smile more, and be a bit..hmm...brighter, louder, more
flamboyant, I can't quite put my finger on the word. They take up more
personal space.

Drea

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Robin Netherton wrote:

>
> On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Kevin + Mara wrote:
>
> > No, just personal observation, actually, that certain face types were
> > more 'in fashion' than others at various times...  But if you think
> > about it, the same facial types _have_ been around in the periods
> > where they weren't fashionable, too.  It's just not what was 'in'.
>
> Well, actually, I don't think the facial types were anywhere near as
> heterogenous in historical periods as in the past century, which has had
> far more transience and cultural intermarriage than any preceding era.
>
> Historically, certain facial and body types and coloring would be typical
> of certain countries and regions. Fashions of those countries/regions
> would then develop to suit those facial and body types. The gene pool
> issue is probably an important factor in the differences in regional
> styles -- particularly headdress -- from, say, Northern to Southern
> Europe, or Eastern to Western.
>
> This point first came home to me about 10 years ago. My research partner
> -- a tall, big-boned, blonde Germanic woman -- had just acquired a
> headdress made in the medieval Russian style. This is one of those things
> that comes down around the sides, and has dangly bits falling in a line
> across the forehead like bangs. On her, it certainly looked imposing, but
> also, well, costumey. On a lark, she popped it on my head. Now, I should
> note that I'm full-blooded Ukranian (with some Middle Eastern genes mixed
> in back many centuries ago). When that headress went around my face, both
> my friend and my husband gasped. The shape framed my face perfectly. It
> brought out my eyes, hid my short forehead, and turned my pointed chin
> into an asset. I really looked like the people in the paintings on which
> the headdress was based. Of course! I had the same genetic type. I have
> never looked at Russian art with the same eyes since.
>
> Naturally, though, I work almost exclusively in Flemish, French, and
> English fashion, in places and periods where a high forehead and long oval
> face are predominant. I look lousy in these styles.
>
> One of my Flemish art books, in fact, has a section comparing photographs
> of modern Flemish people side-by-side with faces from medieval Flemish
> painting. The resemblances were uncanny, even for some of the more
> bizarre-looking individuals from Bosch paintings!
>
> I do look good in Italian, as I have a good resemblance to the
> Mediterranean facial type. I am mistaken for Greek regularly (though
> native Ukranians will spot me at a distance and recognize me as Ukranian).
> These are not places/periods I will ever wear, but I'm certainly designed
> for them.
>
> Regional genetics have a lot to do with body types, too -- not just size,
> but also proportions. I remember once watching an American Scottish-dance
> troupe at a Highland Games festival. The troupe had one member who was
> Japanese by blood. All were dressed in traditional Highland dress. It was
> obvious at a glance that the Japanese man's body was quite different in
> proportion -- his torso was much longer in proportion to his legs. His
> moves were fine, and his overall height no different, but the angles were
> all wrong for the clothing.
>
> There was once a discussion on this list in which some of the European
> h-costumers were trying to explain how they could tell a group of
> costumed reenactors were Americans in a set of photos. No one could put a
> finger on just how, till we realized that the American group didn't have a
> distinctive facial/body type -- it was hugely heterogenous. Here in the
> States, we're used to that wide degree of difference, because we
> encounter many people of different genetic backgrounds on a daily basis.
> In many parts of Europe, and even more elsewhere in the world, there's
> still a distinct regional "type," and the visitor will often stand out as
> different.
>
> Moreover, many Americans now are second- or third-generation (or more)
> intercultural. So, while I might be recognizably "Ukranian" in type, my
> kids won't be recognizably anything -- because they're a combination of my
> genes and those of my husband, who has a solid English genetic background.
> There will always be some kid who display a visual resemblance strongly to
> one line or other, but the more mixing, the more rearrangement of the
> genetic patterns into ever-more-diverse combinations.
>
> --Robin
>
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:45:09 -0500 (EST)
Status: RO


Unspoken cultural differences can be a minefield.  A fascinating one,
though.  :)  I read, a while back, about how members of an American Indian
tribe in the Dakotas kept running afoul of the law and getting pulled into
the station. Turns out that, in this particular tribe, a mark of respect
was to wait a little before responding to a question or comment. The local
cops interpreted this as a suspicious insolence and reluctance to answer
questions.

Likewise, the indians considered the cops to be really rude and pushy
because the cops used their given names so much in casual conversation,
and spoke too fast.

I'd love to pop back 500 years and just get a look at how real medieval
people talked, moved, and held themselves.  It's something we'll never be
able to recreate from books and paintings. There is a book, "Gesture in
Naples and Gesture in Classical Antiquity", a translation of a 15th c.
Italian manuscript describing all of the gestures neapolitan people used
There were tons! Two people could hold an entire conversation with their
hands alone.

It would be really neat if someone did a study on those mannerisms which
define different countries and tried to trace back why those mannerisms
occur.

Drea


 >
> My (tentative) observations would be that Americans (at  least the ones
I notice as being Americans) tend to try to occupy as much space as
possible. Which makes them looks rude and pushy: probably why those are
the ones I notice! Yes, it's a semi-circular argument :)
>

>
>
>
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:09:52 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- Drea Leed  wrote: > 
> On that subtle difference between Europeans and Americans (until they
> open their mouths, that is:) Americans have the best orthodontics and
> teeth I've seen, better (on average) than those I saw in Europe. They

You can't have been to Germany then, everyone, just about everyone has/had
braces and loads of things done to the teeth. Including myself :-) Seems to be
a fad. I have to say though, I have never seen so amny ugly and awful teeth as
here in England, as sorry I am to say this, but it is true and quite shocking.
Occasionally I can't really look into someone's face when speaking to them,
then again, at least the teeth here are very historically correct apparently
*grins*

> seem to smile more, and be a bit..hmm...brighter, louder, more
> flamboyant, I can't quite put my finger on the word. They take up more
> personal space.

Uhm... well, we call that rude. Sorry, but, well, that's what most people I
know think about American visitors and their behaviour. Too loud, too
touchy-feely, too pushy, too brash etc. just because all of the above is
considered to be impolite here (and in germany, I can only speak for two
countries). Also, I may simply only know people who think as thus and loads
other people may think completely differently.
Germans are usually considered to be rude too, but in a different way, they are
believed to jump queues (which has the capital punishment here for sucha crime
*G*) and be generally impolite and don't say enough thanks and please.
Still, the Germans came out on top on a world wide survey of who are the best
travellers, because I think that germans have become so aware of the above that
they try to blend in most of the time. I also know who came bottom...

Anyway, I find it fascinating how different countries behave but most of all
how they are perceived by others! What may be perfectly normal in their country
- like touching somebody, something that makes me scream, literally! - is
considered rude or just plain impossible behaviour in others.

As a summary I'd say, how on earth are we ever going to learn how to
behave/move/hold ourselves/gesture historically correct when we can't even
adapt to another country!

:-)

Nicole

P.S. The best looking men I have ever seen were in Sweden (GOSH! YUMMY! DROOL!)
and South Africans exiled here in England (my gods there is a young one working
in the V&A I did a double take when I saw that 'model' and forgot what the
words were to say 'could you plase take my jacket' *grins*)

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:54:17 -0600 (CST)
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote:

> My (tentative) observations would be that Americans (at least the ones
> I notice as being Americans) tend to try to occupy as much space as
> possible. Which makes them looks rude and pushy: probably why those
> are the ones I notice! Yes, it's a semi-circular argument :)

Yes indeed about the circularity of the argument. The common European
observation of American "rudeness" has its parallel in the common American
observation of Europeans (when over here) being (depending on the country)
stuffy, reserved, aloof, brusque, arrogant, or unfriendly -- and, thus,
"rude."

(One of the most stunning examples I've seen of different national styles
was a couple that used to live next door to me. She was Finnish. He was
Ecuadorian. He did all the neighborly socializing :-) )

There are certainly rude Americans and rude Europeans, but the traits
aren't universal to the peoples. The dividing lines of where, say,
friendliness or comfortable self-confidence turns into "rudeness" lie with
the viewer, and European viewers will have a very different way of placing
that line than Americans do. Thus an American who is considered both
friendly and polite at home will often be deemed rude in Europe, and a
European who is deemed respectful and polite at home will often be deemed
rude in America.

I think that on this list, the courteous thing to do would be to avoid
classifying an entire nation's worth of people by a measure of rudeness
that's built on another country's standards. That would be like me
criticizing everyone from other countries for not speaking my language.
(But, hm, that's done a lot too...)

When I travel to another country, I do make an effort to have at least a
few basic phrases of the language, at least enough to say "excuse me" when
I bump into someone on the street. (In England, the term for this seems to
be "Sorry," which gets me very strange looks here in the US.) In the same
way, I try to learn the local body/space language. I think that makes me a
better visitor. I am frequently mistaken for a local in the countries I
visit (albeit an ethnic local; this goes over better in cities with a
large ethnic population, like London!). The moment I open my mouth, I'm
clearly American -- which leads to most interesting doubletakes from, say,
the fellow who was trying to bum a cigarette from me in Knightsbridge.
("Gi' us a fag, love?") The fact that I was catching a bus may have
contribued to the initial impression that I was local.

When trying to "pass" in another country, it also helps to have the right
shoes, makeup, and hair for camouflage. Which is also key to looking right
in historic costume. The "plastic Barbie doll" look Nicole mentioned is
may be at least partially a function of makeup. What looks normal in one
place is just "off" in another. That also varies from region to region in
the US -- there's a West Coast look, a Southern look, etc.

Perhaps the best theory I've heard about the differing views of "personal
space" between Europe and America has to do with the amount of space
available in a country per person. Everything is much smaller and tighter
together in Europe -- distances between towns, houses, etc. -- because of
less overall acreage and town layouts that go back to a time where
traveling on foot was the norm. America is just so HUGE that people from
smaller countries often can't fathom it, just as many Americans can't
fathom that many European countries are smaller than the U.S. states they
live in, and far more densely populated. This is reflected in everything
from room size to road width to ... personal space. Not only do Europeans
expect people to "take up" a smaller share of space, they have a smaller
margin of squishiness around the edges of that space, so violations feel
more extreme. Don't blame this on me; it's just what I read ... somewhere
... My husband, who spent some years in England (and is frequently assumed
to be Canadian ;-) ) may have a better source. I'll ask him.

--Robin

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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:53:45 -0700
Status: RO

I don't think that it's so much that we *try* to take up more space,
just that we do--some cultures just need more of a "personal buffer"
than others.  It'd be interesting to see the variances between, say,
Americans from a rural background, and those from an urban background.
We definitely do seem to walk differently though.  And dress
differently, even amongst other tourists.  On my recent trip to the UK
and Ireland, literally the only time I ever saw a tee shirt was...on an
American.  Even in those people (all younger) wearing jeans, the brands
were different.  It was also really interesting looking at the different
kinds of suits the professionals were wearing--who was in black, who in
grey, etc.  Now, part of this may be that home in the U.S. is a
relatively small city (80,000) in a *very* underpopulated western state
(MT--the size of Spain, but under 1 million total population), combined
with the fact that I was mostly in larger cities (London and Dublin), so
what I was seeing was differences in rural styles vs. urban styles, but
I dunno....It was definitely fascinating, though.
Mannerisms are interesting, too.  Here in my part of the US, we tend to
say "excuse me" as a general term for trying to get past someone, or as
an apology for bumping someone, etc. In Britain, everyone seems to say
"sorry."
--Sue's two euro worth, as she's getting ready for work....

jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Cassandra Greer  wrote :
> > My theory:
> > I am American but I have been in Germany for 11 of the past 18 years. I can
> > spot an American a mile a way about 95% of the time.  But I don't know if it
> > really has something to do with the actual body type of that person
> > (including at least for me ethnic background) but rather to how they hold
> > and move their body and facial expressions - this seems to be me to be
> > rather homogenous. ...
> 
> > Americans do a
> > lot more smiling than many other cultural groups and are in general a lot
> > more open, also physically, when communication with others if only through a
> > picture.
> 
> My (tentative) observations would be that Americans (at  least the ones I notice as being Americans) tend to try to occupy as much space as possible. Which makes them looks rude and pushy: probably why those are the ones I notice! Yes, it's a semi-circular argument :)
>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:58:36 +0000
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>
> Unspoken cultural differences can be a minefield.  A fascinating one,
> though.  :)

They are indeed.I find that I move and act differently in the two 
personas I have.The one is 16thC Scot,the other is 16thC Hindu.
A lot has to do with  the garments and how they force me to move.I have 
a lot more scope for movement in a wool kilt or Elizabethan hose as 
opposed to the flowing 'skirts' about my ankles when wearing a dhoti 
that isn't drawn up  between the legs.Wearing a voluminous jama and 
pajama trews creates an entirely other way of standing and moving 
,especially in how I can use my hands - those graceful hand gestures 
become a whole lot easier and natural to 'do'.
I also find that my Celtic border-raider calves and stocky shoulders are 
a ---- to adapt convincingly for the more delicate body-types and 
measurements indicated in Indian historic garments which I've been 
fortunate enough to examine.

>  I read, a while back, about how members of an American Indian
> tribe in the Dakotas kept running afoul of the law and getting pulled 
> into
> the station. Turns out that, in this particular tribe, a mark of respect
> was to wait a little before responding to a question or comment. The 
> local
> cops interpreted this as a suspicious insolence and reluctance to answer
> questions.

Growing up in Africa on the East Coast then in South  Africa in the 50's 
and 60's there were similar 'communication' issues.Certain of the 
African races would not make eye contact with a 'superior' or a woman as 
a mark of respect.The Colonials blindly considered them suspicious and 
devious!

> I'd love to pop back 500 years and just get a look at how real medieval
> people talked, moved, and held themselves.  It's something we'll never 
> be
> able to recreate from books and paintings.

Wouldn't that be fascinating?

>  Two people could hold an entire conversation with their
> hands alone.

Gestures and body posture  communication are still seen today in Indian 
society in some circumstances.What is remarkable are the regional 
peculiarities that are used to emphasize points in the conversation or 
deliver a subtext of communication sans words,both for intimate and 
religious/societal commmunication.
>
> It would be really neat if someone did a study on those mannerisms which
> define different countries and tried to trace back why those mannerisms
> occur.

Very interesting.

Years ago when doing some research in New York I ran into a curator 
who's interest was in anthropology.By the end of my research appointment 
she'd worked out my gene-pool background which I found a bit 
unexpected.I'm half Irish and Scot,my features echo my parents in 
'bands' eg. eyebrows = father,nose = mother,jaw-line = father,body 
type = mother.Having always just considered myself a mix and the runt of 
the litter I didn't think that I looked any particular ethnic race.

Marcus.

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Sue wrote:
> On my recent trip to the UK and Ireland, literally the only time I ever saw a tee >shirt was...on an American. 

That's odd, because they are very commonly worn here.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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 --- Robin Netherton  wrote: > 

> Yes indeed about the circularity of the argument. The common European
> observation of American "rudeness" has its parallel in the common American
> observation of Europeans (when over here) being (depending on the country)
> stuffy, reserved, aloof, brusque, arrogant, or unfriendly -- and, thus,
> "rude."

*nods* yep, exactly. It's not only between Europeans and Americans of course,
but also Asia and Europeans/Americans etc. Someone is 'different' and doesn't
'fit' and thus is *insert anything and everything plus 'rude'*

Amusingly enough, there are some lovely comments in 17th century diaries and
other sources about 'foreigners' and how weird they are and... rude. *laughs*
The world just hasn't changed that much, globalisation or not.

> friendly and polite at home will often be deemed rude in Europe, and a
> European who is deemed respectful and polite at home will often be deemed
> rude in America.

Just take eating habits. I learned back home that the left hand always has to
be on the table when eating with one one implement (or right hand of course)
Here Colin told me that it was impolite to do so, and one should have the hand
in the lap, which would be a tital social faux pas back where I come from and
vice versa. Funny.

> expect people to "take up" a smaller share of space, they have a smaller
> margin of squishiness around the edges of that space, so violations feel
> more extreme. Don't blame this on me; it's just what I read ... somewhere

Actually, there's also another thing, I read that depending on country the
persoanl space is bigger and the no-no of touching is greater, kind of rule of
thumb, the further North the less touchy-feely (here in Europe). They certainly
do the kissie-kissie usually in France and Italy and Spain etc. and when I went
to Denmark and Sweden no one did the kissie and touchy thing (demmit! shame
that with all those hunks *grins*)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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On Monday, November 25, 2002, at 02:09  pm, N Kipar wrote:

>  --- Drea Leed  wrote: >
>> On that subtle difference between Europeans and Americans (until they
>> open their mouths, that is:) Americans have the best orthodontics and
>> teeth I've seen, better (on average) than those I saw in Europe. They
>
> You can't have been to Germany then, everyone, just about everyone 
> has/had
> braces and loads of things done to the teeth. Including myself :-) 
> Seems to be
> a fad. I have to say though, I have never seen so amny ugly and awful 
> teeth as
> here in England, as sorry I am to say this, but it is true and quite 
> shocking.

You have no idea what I go  thru' to convince my (young ) dentist to do 
work on my teeth here.Let alone meet my 'American/South African' 
standards.Even as a private patient I'm considered eccentric. < : >>>>

> Occasionally I can't really look into someone's face when speaking to 
> them,
> then again, at least the teeth here are very historically correct 
> apparently
> *grins*

I know exactly what you mean.At 5'7" I tend to peer up at folks faces 
and get an animal's view of the world and after my last encountering 
view of the teeth of a homeless man,younger than  I - I'm going to pass 
on the historic aspect of dentistry!
There are limits to authenticity I'm afraid and teeth are one of them in 
my book.

> As a summary I'd say, how on earth are we ever going to learn how to
> behave/move/hold ourselves/gesture historically correct when we can't 
> even
> adapt to another country!

: >>> It isn't easy!

> and South Africans exiled here in England (my gods there is a young one 
> working
> in the V&A I did a double take when I saw that 'model' and forgot what 
> the
> words were to say 'could you plase take my jacket' *grins*)

Hhhhmm I'll have to visit the V&A soon to witness your paragon. ; >

Marcus.

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On Monday, November 25, 2002, at 02:54  pm, Robin Netherton wrote:

> (One of the most stunning examples I've seen of different national 
> styles
> was a couple that used to live next door to me. She was Finnish. He was
> Ecuadorian. He did all the neighborly socializing :-) )

Hehe after two years in the UK and another International move pending in 
six weeks,I've yet to have my English next-door neighbour's pop in for a 
cup of coffee.

> . Thus an American who is considered both
> friendly and polite at home will often be deemed rude in Europe,

After 17 years in the States I've become very American in some of the 
ways I project myself,especially in tough situations and that 'American 
edge' can be a blessing.My polite Colonial background didn't help much 
in those sort of frays.(The same could be said for my Hindu persona and 
how he would interact in confrontational situations.)

>  The moment I open my mouth, I'm
> clearly American -- which leads to most interesting doubletakes from, 
> say,
> the fellow who was trying to bum a cigarette from me in Knightsbridge.

Its quite fun being unexpected.I get a kick in sounding posh-colonial 
with an extensive American vocabulary.Makes for some interesting 
reactions,especially in the ritzy shops in Birmingham.

> When trying to "pass" in another country, it also helps to have the 
> right
> shoes, makeup, and hair for camouflage. Which is also key to looking 
> right
> in historic costume.

Most certainly.And no mean feat of achievement.Should I ever reproduce 
all the gestures and acts demanded of my Hindu persona at Court during a 
reenactment situation,I'm curious to the reactions of the Western 
representatives.

> Perhaps the best theory I've heard about the differing views of 
> "personal
> space" between Europe and America has to do with the amount of space
> available in a country per person. Everything is much smaller and 
> tighter
> together in Europe -- distances between towns, houses, etc. -- because 
> of
> less overall acreage and town layouts that go back to a time where
> traveling on foot was the norm. America is just so HUGE that people from
> smaller countries often can't fathom it, just as many Americans can't
> fathom that many European countries are smaller than the U.S. states 
> they
> live in, and far more densely populated. This is reflected in everything
> from room size to road width to ... personal space. Not only do 
> Europeans
> expect people to "take up" a smaller share of space, they have a smaller
> margin of squishiness around the edges of that space, so violations feel
> more extreme. Don't blame this on me; it's just what I read ... 
> somewhere
> ... My husband, who spent some years in England (and is frequently 
> assumed
> to be Canadian ;-) ) may have a better source. I'll ask him.

I still get a bit claustrophobic standing in huge lines at the 
Supermarket or in Department Stores as in Christmas shopping.

Something my Indian persona would take in his stride possibly.

Marcus.

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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:27:18 +0000
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This whole conversation reminds me of the time I was traveling in the
Middle East (during the West Bank war--how's that for timing?) with an
ecumenical church group. Despite very thorough briefing on what is and is
not appropriate attire visiting sacred sites throughout the area, one
lady insisted upon wearing a pink panksuit with a crop-style top. Nor did
she bother to bring a shawl or a veil. These sites require that women by
custom cover their heads and shoulders--I found that a huge lightweight
rayon shawl did the trick really well, and it packed no bigger than my
fist (obligatory costume content! ;) ) This woman got really pissy about
not being allowed into places: "I'm an American--I can go wherever I
want!" but of course no one at the sites would let her, and the rest of
us on the tour backed them up. The worst was when we visited several of
the Turkish mosques and women are required to wear a black hooded
garment--we thought she was going to have kittens, she was so angry.

There are such creatures as "Ugly Americans." :(

Arlys


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> My (tentative) observations would be that Americans (at  least the 
> ones I notice as being Americans) tend to try to occupy as much 
> space as possible. Which makes them looks rude and pushy: probably 
> why those are the ones I notice! Yes, it's a semi-circular argument 
> :)

Maybe it's just that culturally we are used to having more personal
space. I have no clue how people in big urban areas stand the crowds
(maybe by being rude and pushy?? ;) ).
To some of us in less populated urban areas, ten people walking down the
same city block is a crowd.

Seriously, the issue of personal space may very well be a cultural one.
We're a very young country (heavens, where I live, we've only been part
of the country formally for 170 years or so) and wide open spaces and
personal freedom to have our own space are very much part of our cultural
mindset.

Arlys in Pacific Northwest

Arlys

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:51:05 -0600 (CST)
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I wrote:

> > (One of the most stunning examples I've seen of different national 
> > styles
> > was a couple that used to live next door to me. She was Finnish. He was
> > Ecuadorian. He did all the neighborly socializing :-) )

Marcus replied:

> Hehe after two years in the UK and another International move pending in 
> six weeks,I've yet to have my English next-door neighbour's pop in for a 
> cup of coffee.

The funniest bit (with the Finnish/Ecuadorian couple) was just after she
had a baby, and *he* came over to ask me for breastfeeding advice.

> After 17 years in the States I've become very American in some of the
> ways I project myself,especially in tough situations and that
> 'American edge' can be a blessing.My polite Colonial background didn't
> help much in those sort of frays.(The same could be said for my Hindu
> persona and how he would interact in confrontational situations.)

When my husband and I traveled on a 10-day tour in Belgium with a group of
about a dozen English scholars, we quickly found that we were *expected*
to take on certain conversational "dirty work" -- e.g. when someone
suggested going into a restaurant that was clearly beyond the means of a
few of our members, it was we Americans who found ourselves saying, "Oh,
this seems a bit expensive. How about that place over there?" Several of
the less-well-off told us later they were so grateful we could say that,
as it would have been impolite for them, and they would have felt forced
to go along and spend much more than they could afford. After a few days,
various people were coming up to us quietly and asking us to make certain
suggestions to the group that they couldn't say themselves, but were just
fine for an American to say. None of the statements seemed at all
outlandish to me, either!

I've also run into situations in which it's OK for an American tourist to
"bargain" with a street artist or other vendor, but *not* OK for a local
person to do it. Or the other way around.  Funny thing, many (most?)
Americans are completely at sea when it comes to price negotiations. We're
used to reading the sticker and deciding whether we want to pay the price,
and that's that. The whole business of prices that vary according to who's
asking, and prices that are negotiable, is very weird to many Americans.

All this makes for amusing situations when you're traveling with someone
of a different nationality, and you're in a country foreign to both of
you. My beautiful Norwegian friend Heidi and I made a killer combination
in Spain, where she, using fluent Spanish, could sweet-talk a museum guard
to let the "American professor who traveled so FAR to see these beautiful
artworks" into a cordoned-off area to take photos. In France, she had
basic vocabulary, but I had all the verbal idiomatic window-dressing that
turns "Where are crepes?" into "Excuse me, would you please be so kind as
to tell me where we might find a good crepe restaurant?" (Of course, after
hearing my mangled accent, most Parisians took pity on me, gave me credit
for style, and switched immediately into English.)

--Robin


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:14:02 -0600
Status: RO

I have decided that I must have Generic Northern European looks as I seem
to be able to blend in in most places. Even in places that I don't blend
into the local population (Yucatan in Mexico- Land of the Short Dark
People), the locals seem to think I'm some variety of European. This is
ironic as I'm American born and bred. It's gotten to the point that when
I'm in London (imposing on Teddy) I am frequently asked for directions by
Brits. The look on their faces when I open my mouth and my very flat,
MidWestern accent comes out is priceless.....as is the look I get when I
can actually give them directions. The times I can't I simply fall back
on the classic line "I'm not from around here." 

Robin, it's interesting that your tour group passed off 'distasteful'
social jobs on you as an American, I have found that happens with me too.
When I'm out with British friends and we need directions, they make me go
and play 'Stupid American Tourist' rather than go in and ask themselves,
even when they are the ones who are driving!

Let's see, can I find any obligatory costume content? Ah Yes! When I'm in
Europe, I find that I too can spot Americans from a mile off. And frankly
most of the time it makes me cringe! Americans do have a particular style
of dress that is distinctive. What I notice is that Americans seem to
wear lots of clothing with logos on them. Brand names writ large across
their chests. Europeans don't seem to wear writing on their clothing-
with the possible exception of football fans and even then it seems like
it's only during games. I suppose that body language is another clue,
with American movements being generally larger and more exaggerated along
with the larger and louder clothing.


Karen

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From: Linda Krecker-Schkred 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:16:01 -0500
Status: RO

At 8:54 AM -0600 11/25/02, Robin Netherton wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote:
>
>Perhaps the best theory I've heard about the differing views of "personal
>space" between Europe and America has to do with the amount of space
>available in a country per person.

A number of years ago I went to a science museum in Arizona with my 
daughter who was rather young at that time. One of the sections was 
on human interaction. A series of circles were scribed on the floor. 
As we stood in the circles, faced each other as instructed and pushed 
the conveniently placed buttons the narrator talked about persona 
space and peoples reactions to it. as we moved up the series of 
circles, we got closer. When about three feet away from each other, 
the narrator said this is what is comfortable for Americans. When we 
moved to the next circles at about two feet, the narrator said this 
was the typical personal space of people in populace countries like 
Japan and India. We both felt nervous and uncomfortable.

The theory Robin cited seemed to have been studied quite extensively.

I wonder how much large clothing plays in this. I attended an event 
this past weekend where a lady wearing a hoplande with a very long 
train stopped in a hall to talk with a person standing against the 
wall. Because of where she stopped, the train effectively blocked the 
entire walk way in the hall. She, being in conversation was oblivious 
of the number of folks who tried to not step on the train while 
hurrying on their errands ladened with large trunks, bags or baskets 
and the minor stir this caused between two who exchanged rude 
behavior. Another whisked by in a purple Elizabethan with a rather 
large hoop skirt. Her skirts touched people who were along the walls 
of the halls. The person I was near exclaimed on how she would never 
wear a dress like that as you can't avoid hitting people and things.

Those of you who wear these larger dresses, how do you cope?

Linda K-S

>Everything is much smaller and tighter
>together in Europe -- distances between towns, houses, etc. -- because of
>less overall acreage and town layouts that go back to a time where
>traveling on foot was the norm. America is just so HUGE that people from
>smaller countries often can't fathom it, just as many Americans can't
>fathom that many European countries are smaller than the U.S. states they
>live in, and far more densely populated. This is reflected in everything
>from room size to road width to ... personal space. Not only do Europeans
>expect people to "take up" a smaller share of space, they have a smaller
>margin of squishiness around the edges of that space, so violations feel
>more extreme. Don't blame this on me; it's just what I read ... somewhere
>... My husband, who spent some years in England (and is frequently assumed
>to be Canadian ;-) ) may have a better source. I'll ask him.
>
>--Robin
>
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:25:53 -0500
Status: RO

Chiming in late on the subject (I'm on digest, and only get to read Monday through Friday)  -- but for me, 1840s/1850s.  Petite, short-waisted, very square though narrow shoulders.  When I was younger, ringlets took to my hair as though they were always meant to be there -- now that I've reached my later years, the center-parted, smoothed-back-over-the-ears hairstyle  just looks like - well, like it belongs on me.  All in all, very Bronte-esque, if anything.  The next-best period for me is 1890s/1900s, although at my height, it tends to make me look like an expensive bundle of laundry - but I've got the hair for it.  

Pity is, my favorite period is 1570s.  

Meagn (returning to period costume after having to spend a couple of years dealing with dull, boring, depressing 21stC matters - but I just found some *great* bee fabric...)
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
From: Cassandra Greer 
To: 
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:48:59 +0100
Status: RO


> ironic as I'm American born and bred. It's gotten to the point that when
> I'm in London (imposing on Teddy) I am frequently asked for directions by
> Brits. The look on their faces when I open my mouth and my very flat,
> MidWestern accent comes out is priceless.....as is the look I get when I
> can actually give them directions. The times I can't I simply fall back
> on the classic line "I'm not from around here."
Me too!! (here in Germany) I could swear I have a neon sign on my head that
says "INFORMATION" - however it has gotten less over the past few years so I
attribute it to the gradual loss of my American openness (which some here
take as non-threatening, I guess)

> Robin, it's interesting that your tour group passed off 'distasteful'
> social jobs on you as an American, I have found that happens with me too.
> When I'm out with British friends and we need directions, they make me go
> and play 'Stupid American Tourist' rather than go in and ask themselves,
> even when they are the ones who are driving!
Others do that with me too. Even for an American I can be rather bold (but
still diplomatic and hopefully not too obnoxious) in statements and
questions but apparently in a way that makes the other parties act as if
they are ok with it.

> Let's see, can I find any obligatory costume content? Ah Yes! When I'm in
> Europe, I find that I too can spot Americans from a mile off. And frankly
> most of the time it makes me cringe! Americans do have a particular style
> of dress that is distinctive. What I notice is that Americans seem to
> wear lots of clothing with logos on them. Brand names writ large across
> their chests. Europeans don't seem to wear writing on their clothing-
> with the possible exception of football fans and even then it seems like
> it's only during games. I suppose that body language is another clue,
> with American movements being generally larger and more exaggerated along
> with the larger and louder clothing.
I've noticed that the younger people here wear lots of shirts with writing
on them esp English text but obviously written by someone who doesn't speak
English as a native language. Also I spot Americans who are wearing t-shirts
because they don't tuck them in like there Germans almost always do. Also an
American would never be caught dead in black socks and white sports shoes.
And the guys often wear fisherman's sandals in the summer (often along with
dark socks - esp the older Germans)

Cass :)

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Subject: [h-cost] body types and then something completely different
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:46:36 -0800 (PST)
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AT 5'5" and a heavy hourglass I tend to look for
corset eras.  As I also have a broad back and
shoulders I love eras with interesting sleeves or 1830
and 1890s because the sleeve width tends to visually
narrow the shoulder width.
     And now for something completely different....
What did people do for long sleeves in the sacque back
gown era?  All the portraiture and extant clothing I
see for the robe a la francais or robe a la ingles has
the short elbow length sleeves with the oversized cuff
or the tiers of embroidered ruffles (flounces?).
    I also just found a beautiful gray brocade with
small, pale oriental style blossoms and branches on it
that is crying out to be a female equivalent of a male
banyan, formal undress type garment for being at home
without being scandalous.  Any help in patterns, time
frames and links?
                                Cassandra

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From: "Linda Walton" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:49:56 -0000
Status: RO

It is possible to see some behaviour and mannerisms on film.  If you go to
the new "Pathe News" website:-
http://www.britishpathe.com/index.cfm
you can watch previews of their whole collection of news items from as much
as 75 years ago.  There are lots of ordinary people, as well as celebrities,
and lots of general occasions, as well as 'events'.  Of course, some of the
people were quite elderly when they were filmed, and favoured earlier
fashions, so you will get to see some quite historic clothes too.

Go search  - it's fascinating.  (If you find a preview you really like, I
believe you can buy the item, but you don't have to buy anything - you can
just look.)

Linda Walton,
(High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.)

P.S.  My mother - dead these many years - used to say that you could tell
Americans by their teeth, because they looked like a row of tombstones !

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Subject: big skirts, was Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? 
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 --- Linda Krecker-Schkred  wrote: > 
> Those of you who wear these larger dresses, how do you cope?

When I wear my mantua with the long train I quite simply carry it over my left
arm, when I don't have anyone doing the carry-the-train bit. The skirts in my
period don't have hoop-type cages underneath, so they are easy to squash at the
sides while I walk or I usually lift them up to avoid people treading on it. My
friends who do 18th century with great big pocket hoops or the full huge
panniers just squeeze them however much they can, gently thread through people
and keep apologising and smiling brightly just about every second. :-))))

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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randl wrote:

>
> > --__--__--
> Hey Elisabeth, everyone,
> The lady in question is looking for garb appropriate to hound coursing.
> She'll be "catching" the hounds and holding them between her knees, so she
> wants something split or more in the way of pants. I get the feeling she's
> looking at the 14/15th centry clothing. I'd suggested a less full cotehardie
> split in the front over a fuller underdress, or a houppeland over pants or
> heavy hose.
> I'd love to hear what you come up with, cuz I'm stumped.

I have a friend who researches mediaeval hunting, so I've seen a few pics. Most
of them show women hawking and they seem to wear similar clothes to otherwise
ie no special adaptations. I can ask her about it though if you like?
She may have to be content knowing that women didn't course hounds in period
(did they? as I said most pics show them hawking) and so anything she does
will be a modern adaptation to a modern problem....

Claire
PS that picture of the Wife of Bath looks to me like she is wearing her cloak
wrapped around her legs and waist.


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N Kipar wrote:

>  --- Sharon Nevin  wrote: >
> > that. If you have a habit of picking colours certain colours that look fine
> > where you live may look startling in a different context like a different
> > part of the world.
>
> If I may quickly add an observation here, this is realy very true what Sharon
> says. I speak not of costume colours here but the colour of my newly painted
> room, which is a very rich ruby red, which looks fantastic in far-too-often
> overcast and grey England, but I wonder what it will look like in summer,
> having the funny feeling it will look quite garish when the sun belts into the
> room. I decorated the room for 'winter' because it is more often overcast here
> than cloudless, and it has a wonderful feel to it, all red and christmas green
> and gold stencilled, but if I lived in Australia, I would have NEVER done that,
> because of Sharon's observations.
>

Sounds beautiful but it would be too dark and strong coloured here. Most inside
walls are painted white or very pale colours in my experience. It's rare to find
strongly coloured paint schemes (in seven houses over the last ten years only one
had one room that was darkly coloured and that was sky blue)

>
> I believe indeed that the same/similar goes for costumes/clothes.

True, but candlelight is very forgiving. *grin*

Claire

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From: "Joan Broneske" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cultural costume: was Ethnic posture?
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I think a lot of Americans assume that because we, here, usually go out of
our way to make allowances for the cultural differences of foreign
visitors/new arrivals to America from printing a myriad of things in other
languages, to translators, to subsidies, that other countries will do the
same for us.  Most countries that are not "Westernized" in culture or
religion expect (and quite rightly so) visitors to respect their ways. If
one was to move to another country from America, they would need to learn
the language and ways of that country.  More than likely (unless it were a
"Westernized" country) there would be no day-to-day workings written in
English, nor would the accepted standards of behavior or type of clothing
worn necessarily fit in with the "free" standards of Americans, and the
American, as a newcomer, would be expected to modify their behavior and
expectations to fit that of the country they are in, and not the other way
around.


                        ,%%%,
Joan Broneske       --==% `%%%,
unicorn@softcom.net     |' )`%%,
                        \_/\ @%%,
                          __@@" %%%--"""-.%,
                        /`__|             \%%
                        \\  \   /   |     /'%,
                         \]  | /----'.   < `%,
                             ||       `>> >
                             ||       ///`
                             /(      //(
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cynthia J Ley" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 11:27 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Cultural costume: was Ethnic posture?


> This whole conversation reminds me of the time I was traveling in the
> Middle East (during the West Bank war--how's that for timing?) with an
> ecumenical church group. Despite very thorough briefing on what is and is
> not appropriate attire visiting sacred sites throughout the area, one
> lady insisted upon wearing a pink panksuit with a crop-style top. Nor did
> she bother to bring a shawl or a veil. These sites require that women by
> custom cover their heads and shoulders--I found that a huge lightweight
> rayon shawl did the trick really well, and it packed no bigger than my
> fist (obligatory costume content! ;) ) This woman got really pissy about
> not being allowed into places: "I'm an American--I can go wherever I
> want!" but of course no one at the sites would let her, and the rest of
> us on the tour backed them up. The worst was when we visited several of
> the Turkish mosques and women are required to wear a black hooded
> garment--we thought she was going to have kittens, she was so angry.
>
> There are such creatures as "Ugly Americans." :(
>
> Arlys
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
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Subject: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type periods)
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:00:31 +0000
Status: RO

If "touchy-feely" makes you scream, don't go shopping on the Mexican side of 
the US-Mexico border! Their personal space requirements are smaller than 
"ours", they are VERY touchy-feely and talk about High pressure sales! "No 
thanks" seemed to be an invitation to bargain, even to the point of yelling 
offers at me as I walked down the street! I didn't buy much...

I grew up in Ohio - over 1100 miles north of where I am now, and I once was 
accused of being rude due to my "Midwestern (US) personality". A more 
accurate paraphrase would be - I had a complaint about you being rude, but I 
know you didn't intend to be, it's just your Midwestern personality. (This 
was said to me by someone from small-town Louisiana/Texas.)

Out of curiosity - are there places in Europe that add fluoride to their 
drinking water? It's done all over the US as a way to improve dental 
health...

Mary/Katerine

ps - obligatory costume content: we've had quite a surge in enthusiasm for 
GFDs here - I'm just hoping I'm not too congested this winter since I'm the 
one who's volunteered to do the fittings, and I DO make people lay on the 
floor! (Hopefully I can get one for myself!)
>You can't have been to Germany then, everyone, just about everyone has/had
>braces and loads of things done to the teeth. Including myself :-) Seems to 
>be
>a fad. I have to say though, I have never seen so amny ugly and awful teeth 
>as
>here in England, as sorry I am to say this, but it is true and quite 
>shocking.
>Occasionally I can't really look into someone's face when speaking to them,
>then again, at least the teeth here are very historically correct 
>apparently
>*grins*
>
> > seem to smile more, and be a bit..hmm...brighter, louder, more
> > flamboyant, I can't quite put my finger on the word. They take up more
> > personal space.
>
>Uhm... well, we call that rude. Sorry, but, well, that's what most people I
>know think about American visitors and their behaviour. Too loud, too
>touchy-feely, too pushy, too brash etc. just because all of the above is
>considered to be impolite here (and in germany, I can only speak for two
>countries). Also, I may simply only know people who think as thus and loads
>other people may think completely differently.
>Germans are usually considered to be rude too, but in a different way, they 
>are
>believed to jump queues (which has the capital punishment here for sucha 
>crime
>*G*) and be generally impolite and don't say enough thanks and please.
>Still, the Germans came out on top on a world wide survey of who are the 
>best
>travellers, because I think that germans have become so aware of the above 
>that
>they try to blend in most of the time. I also know who came bottom...
>
>Anyway, I find it fascinating how different countries behave but most of 
>all
>how they are perceived by others! What may be perfectly normal in their 
>country
>- like touching somebody, something that makes me scream, literally! - is
>considered rude or just plain impossible behaviour in others.
>
>:-)
>
>Nicole
>


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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century lace cap back
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:48:12 -0000
Status: RO

Sue wrote:

> Where in Bath is the ball going to be? What are you planning for the
> rest of your outfit?

Well, you are more familiar with Bath than I am, but I gather that it
will be in the Assembly Rooms, and at the moment I am intending a late
18th century highwaisted gown in silver grey dupioni, with a shorter
over dress in gold metallic silk gauze. That way I can get to use some
of the braid/type decorations in gold and silver plated wire which I
have been making for what seems like forever. It was intended for an
Elizabethan, but until I get it together sufficiently to make the
'barrel corset' which people have kindly suggested that project is
somewhat on the backburner. Though I have just bankrupted myself
buying a Victorian? table cover in cut velvet


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2222&item=92312
5757&rd=1

and another velvet

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2220&item=92101
2275&rd=1

because, dammit, they should look pretty good together. Maybe an
earlier Renaissance period gown with a high waist?

Of course, I've been looking at some of the medieval gowns mentioned
here, because it occurs to me that the degree of support offered by
those gowns is just as good as modern corsetry, and probably less
restrictive around the ribcage, what with wonderelastic and so forth.
Alas, nothing in my wool stash is more than 5 metres or so, and whilst
I got large amounts of some marvellous cotton velvets in Liberty's
sale this summer, where I got the James Hare handloomed dupioni,  they
are not right. And dupioni is really wrong for much before late 18th.
My name is Stevie and I'm a fabricaholic...
What's even worse is that I have a 16 year old daughter who actually
expects me to use some of it making clothes for her! Often at three
hours notice:-)

best wishes
Stevie



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Greetings Elisabeth,
    I am actually doing a paper and class on period hound hunting and 
hawking.  The  book "The Hound and the Hawk" by John Cummins stated that 
women in general did not hound hunt, but did shoot game with long bow 
usually in a "game park".  They also participated in some of the after  
hunt activities.   The women in the tapestries and manuscripts  (mainly 
14th - 16th C.) I've seen show the women in their regular day gowns.  If 
they were riding on horse back, they rode side saddle behind a man or at 
times by themselves.
    There is one Burgundian tapestry of peasants (women and men) 
ferreting rabbits - the women again are wearing their every day clothes.
    When it came to women hawking, once again they wore their every day 
clothes on horseback, along with a protective hawk glove.
     If I can figure out my scanner, I would be happy to send you the 
pictures I have.  By the way, I also have gone through the Gaston 
Phoebus pictures, and there was none that showed women and the hunt.
     I hope this helps.

Roscelin


BOSTONHAHN@aol.com wrote:

> I have been asked for help by a friend who is researching the clothing 
> worn by women in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance for HUNTING. I am 
> stumped.  Can anyone on this list please point us to some resources?
> Thanks
> Elisabeth



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Greetings Elisabeth,

    I am actually doing a paper and class on period hound hunting and hawking.
 The  book "The Hound and the Hawk" by John Cummins stated that women in
general did not hound hunt, but did shoot game with long bow usually in a
"game park".  They also participated in some of the after  hunt activities.
  The women in the tapestries and manuscripts  (mainly 14th - 16th C.) I've
seen show the women in their regular day gowns.  If they were riding on horse
back, they rode side saddle behind a man or at times by themselves.

    There is one Burgundian tapestry of peasants (women and men) ferreting
rabbits - the women again are wearing their every day clothes.

    When it came to women hawking, once again they wore their every day clothes
on horseback, along with a protective hawk glove.

     If I can figure out my scanner, I would be happy to send you the pictures
I have.  By the way, I also have gone through the Gaston Phoebus pictures,
and there was none that showed women and the hunt.

     I hope this helps.



Roscelin





BOSTONHAHN@aol.com wrote:


I have been asked for help by a friend
who is researching the clothing worn by women in the Middle Ages and the
Renaissance for HUNTING. I am stumped.  Can anyone on this list please point
us to some resources? 

Thanks 

Elisabeth






--------------010607020208090603020503--

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All this talk about tippets, I was wondering how they are attached to 
the gown's sleeve.  Also were they interchangeable?  And were they ever 
embellished with embroidery or beadwork?

Roscelin

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>>> -- __--__-- 
>> Hey Elisabeth, everyone,
>> The lady in question is looking for garb appropriate to hound coursing.
>> She'll be "catching" the hounds and holding them between her knees, so she
>> wants something split or more in the way of pants. I get the feeling she's
>> looking at the 14/15th centry clothing. I'd suggested a less full cotehardie
>> split in the front over a fuller underdress, or a houppeland over pants or
>> heavy hose.
>> I'd love to hear what you come up with, cuz I'm stumped.
> 
> I have a friend who researches mediaeval hunting, so I've seen a few pics.
> Most
> of them show women hawking and they seem to wear similar clothes to otherwise
> ie no special adaptations. I can ask her about it though if you like?
> She may have to be content knowing that women didn't course hounds in period
> (did they? as I said most pics show them hawking) and so anything she does
> will be a modern adaptation to a modern problem....
> 
> Claire
> PS that picture of the Wife of Bath looks to me like she is wearing her cloak
> wrapped around her legs and waist.
That would be great!
I think she understands that it isn't really "period" for a woman do the
actual "catching", but she's striving for some sort of authenticity *and*
practicality. 
Thanks for any help.
Laurie/Isabeau

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:13:13 -0800
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(several snips)

>When trying to "pass" in another country, it also helps to have the right
>shoes, makeup, and hair for camouflage. Which is also key to looking right
>in historic costume. The "plastic Barbie doll" look Nicole mentioned is
>may be at least partially a function of makeup. What looks normal in one
>place is just "off" in another. That also varies from region to region in
>the US -- there's a West Coast look, a Southern look, etc.

And a West Coast accent, I find whenever I travel to the East Coast.

Trying to pass - I had to learn more than just a Cockney accent to do my 
lower class Dickens' Fair character.  I'm still working on making my usual 
Northern California body language be different.  I now eat differently, 
with fork in one hand and knife in the other, instead of the way my 
Grandmother taught me (which I save for ACW and other American re-enacting).

>I've also run into situations in which it's OK for an American tourist to
>"bargain" with a street artist or other vendor, but *not* OK for a local
>person to do it. Or the other way around.  Funny thing, many (most?)
>Americans are completely at sea when it comes to price negotiations. We're
>used to reading the sticker and deciding whether we want to pay the price,
>and that's that. The whole business of prices that vary according to who's
>asking, and prices that are negotiable, is very weird to many Americans.

As more Americans encounter flea markets, swap meets, etc, it gets easier 
for them.  I think Californians, with our large Oriental and Hispanic 
populations, get used to this early on.

>I have decided that I must have Generic Northern European looks as I seem
>to be able to blend in in most places. Even in places that I don't blend
>into the local population (Yucatan in Mexico- Land of the Short Dark
>People), the locals seem to think I'm some variety of European. This is
>ironic as I'm American born and bred. It's gotten to the point that when
>I'm in London (imposing on Teddy) I am frequently asked for directions by
>Brits. The look on their faces when I open my mouth and my very flat,
>MidWestern accent comes out is priceless.....as is the look I get when I
>can actually give them directions. The times I can't I simply fall back
>on the classic line "I'm not from around here."

My German teacher (native German-speaker), back when I was in High School 
in the 1960s, said when she was in Mexico she spoke only German, and was 
treated like visiting royalty.  But when she ran into a snag getting back 
from Eastern to Western Germany, went into obnoxious American tourist mode, 
complaining loudly in American-English, and was hurried to the front of the 
line and past the checkpoint really quickly.

Kayta

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
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Subject: [h-cost] Cultural costume/Ethnic posture, several replies
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:29:59 -0800
Status: RO


>I think a lot of Americans assume that because we, here, usually go out of
>our way to make allowances for the cultural differences of foreign
>visitors/new arrivals to America from printing a myriad of things in other
>languages, to translators, to subsidies, that other countries will do the
>same for us.  Most countries that are not "Westernized" in culture or
>religion expect (and quite rightly so) visitors to respect their ways. If
>one was to move to another country from America, they would need to learn
>the language and ways of that country.  More than likely (unless it were a
>"Westernized" country) there would be no day-to-day workings written in
>English, nor would the accepted standards of behavior or type of clothing
>worn necessarily fit in with the "free" standards of Americans, and the
>American, as a newcomer, would be expected to modify their behavior and
>expectations to fit that of the country they are in, and not the other way
>around.

I think this is because of the fact that America is populated almost 
entirely by immigrants, and the descendents of immigrants.  Racisim and 
Xenophobia aside, we really are called to deal with these differences every 
day.  In other more ethnically/culturally homogeneous countries, the 
question may only rarely come up.  I think the same applies to the folks 
who live in small towns in America more often than to those who live in 
really large and diverse cities (New York City, San Francisco, etc.).

Kayta

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Subject: [h-cost] what's a GFD/colors of rooms
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:41:00 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

What's a GFD?
We recently remodeled our second floor and let the
kids pick out their own room colors.  My daughter
chose a dark cadet blue.  There will be no
overpainting of that room without alot of Kilz first. 
My son chose a color called grape popsicle and it
really is that color.  They both chose period prints
for the curtains too.  The blue room got Regency white
with small blue spot motifs while the purple was blue
and purple plaid with an overlay of roses, very dark. 
The third room upstairs was painted a bright canary
yellow then sponged over that with a gold metallic and
then sponged over that with a pale yellow and then
overcoated completely with a clear coat to matt the
colors some.  I haven't gotten curtains made for that
one yet, although I do have a yellow with red and
white trees on it that matches pretty well.
    How do I finish the neckline on a square-necked
Elizabethan shift once I've done the blackwork
                              Cassandra

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, Cassandra Greer 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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On Monday 25 November 2002 02:48 pm, Cassandra Greer wrote:
> 

> > Let's see, can I find any obligatory costume content? Ah Yes! When I'm in
> > Europe, I find that I too can spot Americans from a mile off. And frankly
> > most of the time it makes me cringe! Americans do have a particular style
> > of dress that is distinctive. What I notice is that Americans seem to
> > wear lots of clothing with logos on them. Brand names writ large across
> > their chests. Europeans don't seem to wear writing on their clothing-
> > with the possible exception of football fans and even then it seems like
> > it's only during games. I suppose that body language is another clue,
> > with American movements being generally larger and more exaggerated along
> > with the larger and louder clothing.

You may have a point here.

My husband and I (Americans, both) traveled throughout the UK for a month back 
in 1990.  He had lived in England before; it was my first trip outside the 
US.

Neither of us wore t-shirts or any other clothing with words on it.  Mostly, 
we wore shirts and slacks in neutral tones, some of which was patterned on 
traditional safari clothing (epaulets and lots of cargo pockets).  

Sure enough, we were seldom tagged as Americans right out of the box.  We were 
usually assumed to be Canadian, or occasionally Australian.  In fact, people 
we got into conversations with were surprised to learn that we were American.


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 19:09:13 -0500
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The only period I can think of is early 1800s... although my arms are just a
little too thin for that. I'd need to get my hair curled though :-)

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:29:29 -0500
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On Monday 25 November 2002 06:13 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:
> (several snips)
>
> >When trying to "pass" in another country, it also helps to have the right
> >shoes, makeup, and hair for camouflage. Which is also key to looking right
> >in historic costume. The "plastic Barbie doll" look Nicole mentioned is
> >may be at least partially a function of makeup. What looks normal in one
> >place is just "off" in another. That also varies from region to region in
> >the US -- there's a West Coast look, a Southern look, etc.

That's a good point.  I never wear makeup at all, unless it's necessary for a 
period costume (or a Halloween one).


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Nov 25 19:15:50 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:15:23 +1300
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<<     And now for something completely different....
What did people do for long sleeves in the sacque back
gown era?  All the portraiture and extant clothing I
see for the robe a la francais or robe a la ingles has
the short elbow length sleeves with the oversized cuff
or the tiers of embroidered ruffles (flounces?).>>

I know in Dangerous Liasons with Glenn Close there is a jacket with long
fitting sleeves (and high neck front bottoning), and for years I thought it
was a glaring inaccuracy (those years at high school and Uni so not very
long into my facination with historical costume), but I have seen longer
sleeves in books.. but please forgive me I cannot recall which and when. And
of course later in the century tighter fitting sleeves did become common
(see Revolution in Fashion, the Kyoto book:) )
And I'm sure I saw a winter weight garment (it looked like heavy fabric and
was edged/lined in fur) with long sleeves *under* the usual flounces. Again
I really wish I'd made note of it as I have access to so many books in the
libraries here that to find it again will be a mammoth task;)

But heavy mitts from elbow to knuckles are period correct and will offer
lower arm coverage for warmth. And I'm sure there are examples in the
Revolution in Fashion book:)

That's a point though. Nearly all the art from the middle of the 18thC that
abounds looks very summery indeed. I wonder if this is beacuse:
a) the whole social structure was an attmpt to be light and summery and so
representations of winter would have not fit in with this
b) we selectively find and display this light/summery feeling because it's
what we expect (as historians and compliers of books)
c) It actually was over all warmer than other periods in history, just as
there was a mini ice age during the medieval/dark ages. Not to the point
that it was summer all year round of course;) Just warmer by that much to
make a difference.

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume


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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com,
        marcus findlay-arthur 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:46:24 -0500
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On Monday 25 November 2002 10:58 am, marcus findlay-arthur wrote:
> > Unspoken cultural differences can be a minefield.  A fascinating one,
> > though.  :)
>
> They are indeed.I find that I move and act differently in the two
> personas I have.The one is 16thC Scot,the other is 16thC Hindu.
> A lot has to do with  the garments and how they force me to move.I have
> a lot more scope for movement in a wool kilt or Elizabethan hose as
> opposed to the flowing 'skirts' about my ankles when wearing a dhoti
> that isn't drawn up  between the legs.Wearing a voluminous jama and
> pajama trews creates an entirely other way of standing and moving
> ,especially in how I can use my hands - those graceful hand gestures
> become a whole lot easier and natural to 'do'.

Oh, my yes.  That is one reason I love attempting to re-create and wear 
historic costume--doing so teaches you so much about the people who wore such 
things daily.

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: H-Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:36:19 -0600 (CST)
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Roscelin wrote:

> All this talk about tippets, I was wondering how they are attached to
> the gown's sleeve.  Also were they interchangeable?  And were they
> ever embellished with embroidery or beadwork?

I presented a paper on this a few years ago (to be published as a chapter
in a collection of papers when the editors -- of which I'm one -- can get
off our duffs...). The short answer is that there is not only no evidence
for "detachable" tippets, there's pretty good evidence against it.

The longer answer follows. (WARNING! LONG-WINDED PAPER SUMMARY AHEAD!
Anyone who wishes to quote or refer to the following material in other
contexts, please cite it to me by name. If you want to use it for
documentation in a research paper, contact me and I'll give you full
citation information. If you want to repost this to another group or list,
please inform me first; I'll almost certainly say yes, as long as you cite
it to me and post in its entirety, including this note and my email
address. Thank you for your understanding.)

People in re-enactment often make a distinction between "integral" and
"detachable" tippets, which are modern terms designed to explain a
difference in appearance of two distinct sleeve-ending styles with a
superficial similarity.

The so-called "integral" tippets are better called pendant sleeves; they
would probably not have been called tippets in period. They consist of an
extension of the fabric of a short sleeve to make a tail hanging off the
back of the upper arm. That tail might be long or short, wide or narrow,
squared off or rounded; there's lots of variation. They are almost always
lined in fur. These are *not* the same as the other kind of tippets, and
they were probably never called tippets. Having acknowledged this
pendant-sleeve style, let's set it aside from the discussion.

The kind called the "detachable" tippets themselves are harder to suss out
just from appearance. It's pretty clear what they look like -- bands that
encircle the upper arm and have a long streamer hanging down. They are
almost always white, almost always quite narrow. Costume authors since the
19th century have assumed they were strips of fabric (you'll see
authoritative references to "linen" or "silk"), and often describe them as
accessories that were bound around the upper arm.

If you throw out the secondary sources, and take a closer look at the
evidence from the period, you'll find an astonishing lack of evidence for
these assumptions.

Assumption one: Tippets were bound around the arm, over a long sleeve.
There's no indication that tippets were ever added over a long-sleeve
garment. Art from this period (c. 1380) is often annoyingly monochrome, so
you often can't distinguish separate layers very easily, but in nearly all
cases where you do have color or texture variations, the lower sleeve is a
distinctly different material than the upper sleeve. Occasionally you get
the same color at upper and lower sleeve, but that doesn't prove that the
sleeve is all one piece, and it happens rarely enough to be seen as
anamolous (and possibly a sign of simplification by the artist).

Assumption two: The tippet is a separate accessory. There's no good reason
to assume this. Having watched for references to tippets for about 15
years now (and pumped documentary researchers for their findings), here's
the summary of what I've found:
 -- no references to tippets, or anything resembling them, in lists of
clothing accessories sold by vendors
 -- no references to them as separate items in inventories
 -- no images of tippets as separate items
 -- no references to tippets as "pairs," or to lost tippets, or to tippets
given as gifts or purchased, as might be expected of something that is
detachable

It's possible that evidence of this type is out there somewhere, but if it
is, it hasn't crossed my path.  Conversely, I *have* found at least one
sequence of images showing a tippet-style dress both on and *off* a woman,
and the latter image shows the tippets hanging from the sleeve without an
arm in it. This, combined with the above, suggests that tippets were
part and parcel of a short-sleeve garment, not an accessory.

Assumption three: The tippet is made of fabric, typically white linen or
silk. Here's where we get back to the annoying painting/sculpture styles
of the 1380s. The fact is, nearly all images of tippets, often assumed to
be cloth, can actually be interpreted with more security as fur. In many
cases, the tippet is clearly depicted as fur; in other cases, it's
ambiguous, but the treatment is consistent with the depiction of fur
elsewhere in the same medium. (The use of the word "tippet" as a fur piece
in other periods is consistent with this, too, but of course not proof.)
There are extremely rare instances of tippet-like arm decorations that
might be something other than fur (e.g. metal chains hanging from a band),
and a very few instances of something that might be a patterned fabric,
but is still ambiguous (e.g. appearing in a non-realistic art style).
When you take the entire body of evidence, it's pretty clear that fur
should be considered the default material, leaving open the possibility of
rare exceptions. That also helps explain why tippets are virtually always
shown in white, and very occasionally black.

So, if you put together the idea of tippets being a part of the gown (not
a separate piece), added to a short sleeve, and made of fur, you can come
to a further conclusion. I have a much longer analysis that takes a lot of
slides and words to explain, in which I examine the tippet style in
context of other sleeve decorations from before, during, and after the
brief period in which tippets are worn. The bottom line, though, is that
it makes a lot more sense to view the tippet as another form of the
fur-lined pendant sleeve, but with the fur turning to the outside of the
end of the sleeve to form a sort of cuff, while retaining the pendant tail
of fur as well.

This interpretation handily eliminates the issue of how to attach tippets.
:-) I sew mine on, as I would any other border/lining. See examples here:
	http://www.barony-of-arnhold.org/gothicdress3.htm
I hope to replace the fur on my current dress (the red and blue patterned
wool) with real fur at some point soon, at which time I will test some
refinements of my ideas on tippet construction.

Decoration? Also less of an issue if your default is fur. Some of the rare
cases of texture in tippet depictions might be perceived as embellished
fabric; I wouldn't leap to that conclusion, though. The one recurring
element is a black line up the back of the tippet, which tends to show up
in the earliest examples; I think this may be a reflection of the tippet's
original construction as a turned-back lining sewn together down the back.

Hope this helps.

--Robin



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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, Cynthia J Ley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cultural costume: was Ethnic posture?
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On Monday 25 November 2002 02:27 am, Cynthia J Ley wrote:
> This whole conversation reminds me of the time I was traveling in the
> Middle East (during the West Bank war--how's that for timing?) with an
> ecumenical church group. Despite very thorough briefing on what is and is
> not appropriate attire visiting sacred sites throughout the area, one
> lady insisted upon wearing a pink panksuit with a crop-style top. Nor did
> she bother to bring a shawl or a veil. These sites require that women by
> custom cover their heads and shoulders--I found that a huge lightweight
> rayon shawl did the trick really well, and it packed no bigger than my
> fist (obligatory costume content! ;) ) This woman got really pissy about
> not being allowed into places: "I'm an American--I can go wherever I
> want!" but of course no one at the sites would let her, and the rest of
> us on the tour backed them up. The worst was when we visited several of
> the Turkish mosques and women are required to wear a black hooded
> garment--we thought she was going to have kittens, she was so angry.
>
> There are such creatures as "Ugly Americans." :(

Absolutely.  And many of us Americans consider those folk to be just as 
obnoxious as the rest of the world does.


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" 
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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On Monday 25 November 2024 07:09 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:
> The only period I can think of is early 1800s... although my arms are just
> a little too thin for that. I'd need to get my hair curled though :-)


You could wear a turban--or was that only an eveningwear fashion?
-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Gothic Fitted Dress. Also sometimes referred to (modernly) as a Cotehardie.

:)

Mary/Katerine

>What's a GFD?
>                               Cassandra
>


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On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Mary Temple wrote:

> Gothic Fitted Dress. Also sometimes referred to (modernly) as a
> Cotehardie.

:-) Mary is being very delicate because she knows I have an apoplectic
response to the popular use of "cotehardie" as a generic term for any
14th/15th century fitted female dress. So I picked my own generic ... it's
Gothic, it's fitted, it's a dress.

More info at http://www.netherton.net/robin -- collected posts, and a
handout.

--Robin

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My body type is your basic Venus de Willendorf:  middle aged, heavy, with
saggy breasts and belly.  Since there isn't much opportunity for Neolithic
reenactment, nor would I want to to wear the fringed apron and nothihng
else that her costume consists of, I content myself with Elizabethan.  The
corseted torso takes care of the sag, the skirts hide the belly, and I can
pile on the glitz to my heart's desire.

I sometimes do 1850's Gold Rush, which has the same advantages but without
the glitz.

I was coerced into Regency once, and the results were Not Pretty.  

My sister does a lot of 1930's, and sometimes talks me into going to
events.  While I love this period for other body types, I can't wear it
myself without feeling like I look like that humorless woman from all the
Marx Brothers movies. 

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Nov 25 20:35:53 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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I think I have the typical late medieval body, as I have very thin arms & a
narrow back.  I more substantial from the waist down, but that's hard to
tell under the flowing skirts.  I also naturally have rather an "S" shaped
posture.

Once when I was in england, I was mistaken for french ).  I walked into a
cathedral and the person handing out the brochures tried to give me a french
one.  Being an American with an almost exclusive anglo-saxon-celtic heritage
(one french guy might have snuck in there where we weren't looking), I was
bit surprized.  It may have been because I wasn't wearing the stereotypical
jeans and t-shirt, but rather a skirt and top.

Susan in bellevue

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Nov 25 21:37:55 2002
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Hi. I am not sure what you mean by "as regularly". Having been in
discussions regarding the possibility of women even wearing underwear in
the Medieval period, I would think that the likelihood of women wearing
pants of any sort, not just for hunting, would be in the "hell freezing
over" category of possibilities  ;). Even if they did, it wouldn't be
prudent for anyone to paint or otherwise represent it, due to the social
and societal implications of women wearing what was considered men's
clothing. I wouldn't even consider it for any sort of legitimate
historical representation, if I were you. I'm not remembering back to
the original post as to why you are searching for this, but I would be
very wary if someone has requested you to find specific documentation
for something they are planning to do. "Reverse" documentation has
caused many problems in the past for a number of people. If a modern
person wants or needs to do something for whatever reason, they should
go ahead, but not with a false sense of historical propriety. Just my
2p. Cheers, Mike T.



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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:58:33 -0700
Status: RO

What? You, Robin? Feel strongly about something? 
You *do* realize you cooked my goose thoroughly when I took your
workshop....I have serious attacks of the Involuntary Cringes now, when
my SCA-buds refer to that style of women's clothing as a cotehardie
(especially when it has other nicely-refined, way-non-historical
touches).
--sue "see what robin made me do" clemenger ;-P

Robin Netherton wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Mary Temple wrote:
> 
> > Gothic Fitted Dress. Also sometimes referred to (modernly) as a
> > Cotehardie.
> 
> :-) Mary is being very delicate because she knows I have an apoplectic
> response to the popular use of "cotehardie" as a generic term for any
> 14th/15th century fitted female dress. So I picked my own generic ... it's
> Gothic, it's fitted, it's a dress.
> 
> More info at http://www.netherton.net/robin -- collected posts, and a
> handout.
> 
> --Robin
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cultural costume: was Ethnic posture?
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Sounds like she would have been ugly in any language/culture.
--sue, proto-world traveler 

Cynthia J Ley wrote:
> 
> This whole conversation reminds me of the time I was traveling in the
> Middle East (during the West Bank war--how's that for timing?) with an
> ecumenical church group. Despite very thorough briefing on what is and is
> not appropriate attire visiting sacred sites throughout the area, one
> lady insisted upon wearing a pink panksuit with a crop-style top. Nor did
> she bother to bring a shawl or a veil. These sites require that women by
> custom cover their heads and shoulders--I found that a huge lightweight
> rayon shawl did the trick really well, and it packed no bigger than my
> fist (obligatory costume content! ;) ) This woman got really pissy about
> not being allowed into places: "I'm an American--I can go wherever I
> want!" but of course no one at the sites would let her, and the rest of
> us on the tour backed them up. The worst was when we visited several of
> the Turkish mosques and women are required to wear a black hooded
> garment--we thought she was going to have kittens, she was so angry.
> 
> There are such creatures as "Ugly Americans." :(
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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Hmm...I'm not sure what ethnic 'look' I have.  My mother is a mix of Irish,
Scottish and Welsh, and my father is Armenian, with a decidedly
Middle-Eastern look (although he's been often mistaken for Greek, Spanish,
Portuguese, South American, etc.).  I tend to take after my mother (high
forehead, longish face, long narrow limbs, narrow shoulders, wideish hips,
very pale), so I'd probably pass for medieval English or something. *shrug*
I don't  look much like my Armenian relatives at all...and growing up I was
fiercely jealous of my aunt's gorgeous olive complexion, wavy black hair and
exotic features.  Bleh.

-- Maral

the den of sarcasm
http://sarcasm.fanfic.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House


>
> On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Kevin + Mara wrote:
>
> > No, just personal observation, actually, that certain face types were
> > more 'in fashion' than others at various times...  But if you think
> > about it, the same facial types _have_ been around in the periods
> > where they weren't fashionable, too.  It's just not what was 'in'.
>
> Well, actually, I don't think the facial types were anywhere near as
> heterogenous in historical periods as in the past century, which has had
> far more transience and cultural intermarriage than any preceding era.
>
> Historically, certain facial and body types and coloring would be typical
> of certain countries and regions. Fashions of those countries/regions
> would then develop to suit those facial and body types. The gene pool
> issue is probably an important factor in the differences in regional
> styles -- particularly headdress -- from, say, Northern to Southern
> Europe, or Eastern to Western.
>
> This point first came home to me about 10 years ago. My research partner
> -- a tall, big-boned, blonde Germanic woman -- had just acquired a
> headdress made in the medieval Russian style. This is one of those things
> that comes down around the sides, and has dangly bits falling in a line
> across the forehead like bangs. On her, it certainly looked imposing, but
> also, well, costumey. On a lark, she popped it on my head. Now, I should
> note that I'm full-blooded Ukranian (with some Middle Eastern genes mixed
> in back many centuries ago). When that headress went around my face, both
> my friend and my husband gasped. The shape framed my face perfectly. It
> brought out my eyes, hid my short forehead, and turned my pointed chin
> into an asset. I really looked like the people in the paintings on which
> the headdress was based. Of course! I had the same genetic type. I have
> never looked at Russian art with the same eyes since.
>
> Naturally, though, I work almost exclusively in Flemish, French, and
> English fashion, in places and periods where a high forehead and long oval
> face are predominant. I look lousy in these styles.
>
> One of my Flemish art books, in fact, has a section comparing photographs
> of modern Flemish people side-by-side with faces from medieval Flemish
> painting. The resemblances were uncanny, even for some of the more
> bizarre-looking individuals from Bosch paintings!
>
> I do look good in Italian, as I have a good resemblance to the
> Mediterranean facial type. I am mistaken for Greek regularly (though
> native Ukranians will spot me at a distance and recognize me as Ukranian).
> These are not places/periods I will ever wear, but I'm certainly designed
> for them.
>
> Regional genetics have a lot to do with body types, too -- not just size,
> but also proportions. I remember once watching an American Scottish-dance
> troupe at a Highland Games festival. The troupe had one member who was
> Japanese by blood. All were dressed in traditional Highland dress. It was
> obvious at a glance that the Japanese man's body was quite different in
> proportion -- his torso was much longer in proportion to his legs. His
> moves were fine, and his overall height no different, but the angles were
> all wrong for the clothing.
>
> There was once a discussion on this list in which some of the European
> h-costumers were trying to explain how they could tell a group of
> costumed reenactors were Americans in a set of photos. No one could put a
> finger on just how, till we realized that the American group didn't have a
> distinctive facial/body type -- it was hugely heterogenous. Here in the
> States, we're used to that wide degree of difference, because we
> encounter many people of different genetic backgrounds on a daily basis.
> In many parts of Europe, and even more elsewhere in the world, there's
> still a distinct regional "type," and the visitor will often stand out as
> different.
>
> Moreover, many Americans now are second- or third-generation (or more)
> intercultural. So, while I might be recognizably "Ukranian" in type, my
> kids won't be recognizably anything -- because they're a combination of my
> genes and those of my husband, who has a solid English genetic background.
> There will always be some kid who display a visual resemblance strongly to
> one line or other, but the more mixing, the more rearrangement of the
> genetic patterns into ever-more-diverse combinations.
>
> --Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:27:46 -0500
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> >  I read, a while back, about how members of an American Indian
> > tribe in the Dakotas kept running afoul of the law and getting pulled
> > into
> > the station. Turns out that, in this particular tribe, a mark of respect
> > was to wait a little before responding to a question or comment.

Hi. That process is common with most Native American peoples from the
Northeast to California. The Europeans first began to mention it as a
pleasant
peculiarity (Columbus' Voyages), but by the 16th Cent., it was beginning
to be
seen as the aforementioned "suspicious insolance" (De Las Casas' In
Defense of
the Indians) The intent was to show that one was carefully considering
what
the other had said, superfluous conversation being the mark of a foolish
person. Sadly, at the very time period, verbosity both in speech and
writing
was held by Europeans to be the sign of highest education. No costume
content
here, sorry.  Mike T.
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: MaryAnn Jones 
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:58:47 -0800
Status: RO

Nicole - you think that I look like a plasticy barbie doll because I am 
American?  thank you so much.  that is so flattering.  no one has ever 
compared me to a barbie doll before.  I have to say, that I have traveled 
all over, and I always look out of place.  Of course, I look out of place 
in my office where I work.  I just dress in such an idiosyncratic way that 
I don't look particularly normal anywhere.  And I do think that you are 
wrong.  Put me in a lower middle class Elizabethan outfit and I look pretty 
much right.  I just look like a fat middle age peasant of an indeterminate 
time period. Maryann

At 08:16 AM 11/25/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>  --- Robin Netherton  wrote: >
>
> > There was once a discussion on this list in which some of the European
> > h-costumers were trying to explain how they could tell a group of
> > costumed reenactors were Americans in a set of photos. No one could put a
> > finger on just how, till we realized that the American group didn't have a
> > distinctive facial/body type -- it was hugely heterogenous.
>
>Actually Robin, I completely disagree. I can tell most of the time (unless the
>person comes from a distinct genetic ethnic background, like Asian etc.) when
>someone is American. It is NOT because of being heterogenous, on the contrary,
>there is a look about them, which - please don't kill me I don't mean that
>nastily - looks like a plasticky Barbie doll to me. The faces looked just 
>plain
>wrong in the historic clothing (so does mine, unless I do a Russian or polish
>type, similar to you. I can do a Byzantine Queen *hey, now that's a 
>thought!*)
>
>I do think that there has been already a forming of an 'American' gene 
>pool but
>I don't think it will worry the big country too much because so many people
>from all over the world are constantly flowing in and probably inter-marry. I
>suppose.
>
>Nicole
>
>=====
>Nicole Kipar M.A.
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/
>Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Everything you'll ever need on one web page
>from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
>http://uk.my.yahoo.com
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:30:03 -0600
Status: RO

It does seem that the styles I look best in are the ones that I have 
seen paintings of with women whose faces look just like mine - my ethnic 
heritage is German.

When I was young and thin, I looked *just* like the young woman in 
Holbein's Meyer Madonna: high forehead, prominent profile, not very 
prominent chin.  As I got older and heavier, corset styles that 
emphasized my shortwaisted hourglass shape became the norm (side note: 
 have you noticed that, when England was full of Tudor ladies squishing 
themselves into cylinders, German women mostly preferred styles that 
accentuated the bosom - I mean, that was a good feature for them, and 
I'm sure the German men didn't mind ;-)

Recently I made an 1883 afternoon/receiving dress for a Halloween party, 
and I was told by many people there that I should do lots more of that 
time/style, as it suited me better than anything else they had ever seen 
me in.  That surprised me a little, as I would have expected it to work 
better on someone who could get a longer, smoother front than I.

Also, I seem to be able to look good in hats (even though I usually 
don't mess with them; I have enough trouble just  getting  a reasonable 
hair style!).  I think they help balance the proportions of my face/head.

Karen

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From: "Jane Williams" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type periods)
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:46:53 -0000
Status: RO

On 25 Nov 2002 at 22:00, Mary Temple wrote:

> If "touchy-feely" makes you scream, don't go shopping on the Mexican
> side of the US-Mexico border! Their personal space requirements are
> smaller than "ours", they are VERY touchy-feely and talk about High
> pressure sales! "No thanks" seemed to be an invitation to bargain,
> even to the point of yelling offers at me as I walked down the street!

Don't go to Tunisia, or Turkey, either, then. Being 
followed for 1/2 mile by a persistent seller is normal. 
And actually saying "no thanks" tells them what 
language you speak, opening the way to 
negotiations.
I enjoyed it: got back to Heathrow, and wondered 
what was wrong with me when after 100 yards, no-
one had tried to sell me anything.

> Out of curiosity - are there places in Europe that add fluoride to
> their drinking water? It's done all over the US as a way to improve
> dental health...

Yes, they do that in the UK, too (if you count us as 
part of Europe?). Can't speak for other countries.

 


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From: "Jane Williams" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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On 25 Nov 2002 at 15:13, Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
wrote:

>  I now eat
> differently, with fork in one hand and knife in the other, instead of
> the way my Grandmother taught me (which I save for ACW and other
> American re-enacting).

So let's ask that question in reverse, since I'm being 
pushed into ACW reenactment. How did your 
grandmother teach you to eat? Given a  knife and a 
fork, I can't imagine any reasonable method that 
*doesn't* have one in each hand.




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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:56:24 +1100 (EST)
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 --- Jane Williams 
wrote: > On 25 Nov 2002 at 15:13, Carolyn Kayta
Barrows 
> wrote:
> 
> >  I now eat
> > differently, with fork in one hand and knife in
> the other, instead of
> > the way my Grandmother taught me (which I save for
> ACW and other
> > American re-enacting).
> 
> So let's ask that question in reverse, since I'm
> being 
> pushed into ACW reenactment. How did your 
> grandmother teach you to eat? Given a  knife and a 
> fork, I can't imagine any reasonable method that 
> *doesn't* have one in each hand.

Ooh, I'll take a guess. Hold knife and fork only to
cut, put down knife, take fork in right hand and place
food in mouth?

Bella

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type
	periods)
From: Cassandra Greer 
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:57:19 +0100
Status: RO

>> Out of curiosity - are there places in Europe that add fluoride to
>> their drinking water? It's done all over the US as a way to improve
>> dental health...
> 
> Yes, they do that in the UK, too (if you count us as
> part of Europe?). Can't speak for other countries.
But not in Germany - fluoride is considered one of those underestimated
environmental poisons. It is not even in all the different brands of
toothpaste, especially natural food store toothpaste. I get lots of
compliments on my white teeth here in Germany, while an incredible number of
friends around my age (36) and sometimes in their 20's have gapes where
teeth have been removed or/and are getting crowns (can we count this as
costume content? ;), conditions that I don't generally expect in Americans
until they get to their 50's.

Cass :)

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From: "Katherine" 
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:19:07 -0800
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On 25 Nov 2002 at 17:31, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote:

> > There are such creatures as "Ugly Americans." :(
> 
> Absolutely.  And many of us Americans consider those folk to be just as
> obnoxious as the rest of the world does.

I noticed when I visited London that Americans were easy to tell.  You could hear 
them coming before you could even tell what language they were speaking.

And of course when I was in Westminster Abbey I heard an American say in an 
incredibly loud voice, "HEY! Where do you think all the kings and queens are 
buried!"  It was awful :) 

I was mistaken for being English a few times, I quite enjoyed feeling like I didn't 
stand out.  

Very interesting conversation!

(returning to lurkdom now)



Katherine

"I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they 
can make fun of the public without its revolting."

Marie, Queen of Roumania

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic & historical eating
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:16:30 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Bella  wrote: > 

> Ooh, I'll take a guess. Hold knife and fork only to
> cut, put down knife, take fork in right hand and place
> food in mouth?

*shudder* oh that tortures my German upper middle class
you-have-to-know-at-all-times-how-to-behave upbringing. :-) That's considered
absolutely crude at home. How funny.

Still, I prefer eating as it was done throughout history well into the 17th and
even 18th centuries: just a knife, no fork, the latter only trickled slowly
into fashion. It works very well.

Nicole - who LOVES to eat daintily with her fingers coz she was never allowed
to misbehave even the slightest bit back home at table. ;-)

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type periods)
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:12:25 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Cassandra Greer  wrote: > >> O
> compliments on my white teeth here in Germany, while an incredible number of
> friends around my age (36) and sometimes in their 20's have gapes where
> teeth have been removed or/and are getting crowns (can we count this as
> costume content? ;), conditions that I don't generally expect in Americans
> until they get to their 50's.

I do have to say though that I go with the 'tombstone' remark: I hate those
fake brilliant white teeth, just look at Halle Berry in the new James Bond
film, it loks ridiculous and SO fake. I cannot imagine anyone with teeth like
that looking even remotely convincing in period costume - any period other than
Sci Fi. Pierce Brosnan on the other hand, with his well-kept but natural
coloured Irish teeth :-) - has a soft spot for Pierce Brosnan and the
oh-so-sexy Irish Republic accent anyway - looks natural and real.
If only people went for natural looking colours, like ivory and not screaming
white, that would be so much better, and not those front rows of teeth that
look like being chiselled out of one block.

It's difficult, really, the thin line between the two extremes.

Nicole 

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:23:34 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- MaryAnn Jones  wrote: > Nicole - you think that I look
like a plasticy barbie doll because I am 
> American?  thank you so much.  that is so flattering.  no one has ever 
> compared me to a barbie doll before.  I have to say, that I have traveled 
> all over, and I always look out of place.  Of course, I look out of place 
> in my office where I work.  I just dress in such an idiosyncratic way that 
> I don't look particularly normal anywhere.  And I do think that you are 
> wrong.  Put me in a lower middle class Elizabethan outfit and I look pretty 
> much right.  I just look like a fat middle age peasant of an indeterminate 
> time period. Maryann

CALM DOWN!
Don't be over-sensitive, it's A) not needed and B) not called for, take what I
said as I tried to explain how I meant it, if one is not allowed to voice one's
opinion while explaining that it isn't meant as rude while it is being
impossible to word it in another way, then hell, out with personal opinions and
we all think the same and be the same, right?
Besides, why do you think I said that about you. Gosh. I don't take everything
that is said about 'the Germans' or 'the people in England' personally, because
that's not how it is meant.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 03:28:46 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] body types and then something completely different
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:28:48 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Margo Anderson  wrote: > 
> 
> I was coerced into Regency once, and the results were Not Pretty.  

Oh Margo, I SO agree. My friends who do Napoleonic/Regency are trying to get me
into that, but while I look a lot more stunning in 1660-1715 than their pretty
thin un-hipped and un-boobed young bodies do, I look like a fat floating walrus
in anything empire waisted. *shudder* the result is boobage up to the chin,
then no waist but instead that great big round thing called very-female-hips in
floaty thin white fabrics. It is NOT pretty for curvy women, nooo....
They, on the other hand, look absolutely gorgeous in Regency, so pretty and so
right.

Nicole - not pretty, not thin, and no white teeth. *grins*

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:28:51 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

Wow, finally caught up with my email and couldn't resist joining in with this thread.

I'm sorry to say but I have to plead guilty to most of the cultural traits leveled at the British.
 I grew up in semi-rural Hertfordshire where people are quite friendly, but you would never just
pop in for a cup of tea.  You could pop round for a couple of eggs etc and be invited to stay for
a cup or two but just expecting tea would be rude.  Just to demonstrate my in-laws haven't been in
our house more than two or three times in the last year.  Why?  Becuase they haven't been invited
and don't want to pop in.  This is infuriating for me as my mother grew up in the North of England
where things are completely different and you do just pop in for tea, and get cakes with it!  It's
strange for such a small country but we are really polarised.  The south tends to be really
insular and you rarely even talk to your neighbours let alone invite them round for drinks.  The
north is somewhat different.  I think part of the probem is that as a nation we are over cautious
about offending someone by invading their privacy which is the golden tennant of British
behaviour.  The English are probably the worst offenders and we have taken this to an almost
extreme form in some cases to the extent it can be extremely hard to make friends when you have
moved to new area.

Rachel



=====
Rachel

Tudor Bibliography
http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cultural costume: was Ethnic posture?
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:34:45 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Catherine Olanich Raymond  wrote: > 

> > There are such creatures as "Ugly Americans." :(
> 
> Absolutely.  And many of us Americans consider those folk to be just as 
> obnoxious as the rest of the world does.

It's the same with 'ugly Germans' on tour, sometimes I have seen the 'typical'
impolite, queue jumping, ignorant German tourist - albeit very rarely - and I
always pretended to be English then and certainly not German to, how
embarrassing! I do the same whenencountering 'typical' yobbo, drunk, vomiting
British tourists, then I claim to be German, I tell you, I don't know what to
do if I ever encounter a case of badly behaved german AND English tourists.
:-)))) Claim I am Russian? Hmmm......

Costumy content: I love visiting cathedrals and churches because you never know
what wonderful treasures of costumey bits might be hidden, and everytime I do,
I am SO frightened I might do something 'wrong' so I tiptoe around and don't
dare to go anywhere where there are not apparently loads of people already. I
am mortified to be an 'ugly' tourist.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 04:14:46 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] stays for a large woman
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:14:27 +0100
Status: RO

Some time ago, i told you about the new projekt i am making, a dress for a
large woman.
Well i got Mantua Makers pattern for stays 1720-1790 because i was told that
they were particular good for large persons.
I dont like this pattern at all. To me it looks like a lower class pair of
stays. There are some odd shaped tabs in the front, i dont like at all, and
i think that the front "triangle" (the busk piece) is much two broad.
Therefore i have adapted the pair of stays in Norah Waughs Corsets and
Crinolines. The pair of stays i have made so many times from 1770.
I think i have done it very succesfully, and i like the shape of those much
better.
I will ad pictures soon, first i have to send it ower the pond for her to
try, and when that is done, i shall make it up and post pictures.

Bjarne
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:26:37 GMT
Status: RO

Rachel  wrote :

>  I grew up in semi-rural Hertfordshire where people are quite friendly, but you
> would never just
> pop in for a cup of tea.  

And I'm over in semi-rural Bedfordshire, having gronw up in non-rural Luton, so that's just down the road (probably).

>  Just to demonstrate my
> in-laws haven't been in
> our house more than two or three times in the last year.  Why?  Becuase they
> haven't been invited
> and don't want to pop in.  This is infuriating for me as my mother grew up in
> the North of England
> where things are completely different 

I get it the other way round: my mother-in-law complains that we haven't been to see her. And I think "but why would I?" I'm not sure about invasion of privacy in this context, but I wouldn't drop in without a reason to do so: I don't have time for that sort of thing, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to spare me some of their valuable time without a reason for it. Time, not space, but it's the same principle, perhaps?


>  I think part of the probem is that as a nation we
> are over cautious
> about offending someone by invading their privacy which is the golden tennant
> of British behaviour. 

I was trying to figure this one out, reading all those mails about personal space preferences, and wondering why I was doing knee-jerk reactions to some of them. Now I think about it, I take it for granted that in most circumstances, "personal space", privacy, or whatever, is limited, and everyone present wants more of it than there is room for. So for someone to "excuse" a type of behaviour by saying that people of that type want more space seems arrogant: sure, they want more space, who doesn't? But who do they think they are to imagine that gives them a right to it? And reactions go downhill from there :(

It sounds from what you're saying that there are people who don't realise that personal space *can* be in short supply, and therefore don't naturally limit their use of it so as not to inconvenience others. Rural Americans being one example of this type of person?

Or is it really that their reaction to a *perceived* shortage of space is not to fit in with everyone's needs, but to push for as much as they can get without actually coming to blows? Competition, rather than cooperation?

I wonder how this worked out in historical times? Population was lower: but I gather that living accomodation was cramped. Would they have naturally preferred lots of space, but worked out strategies for accomodating each other in cramped conditions? Were those Big Skirts not saying "look how much fabric I can afford", but "look how much personal space I can insist on"?






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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
From: Cassandra Greer 
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:03:39 +0100
Status: RO


>>  Just to demonstrate my in-laws haven't been in our house more than two or
>>three times in the last year.  Why?  Becuase they haven't been invited and
>>don't want to pop in.  This is infuriating for me as my mother grew up in the
>>North of England where things are completely different
> 
> I get it the other way round: my mother-in-law complains that we haven't been
> to see her. And I think "but why would I?" I'm not sure about invasion of
> privacy in this context, but I wouldn't drop in without a reason to do so: I
> don't have time for that sort of thing, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to
> spare me some of their valuable time without a reason for it. Time, not space,
> but it's the same principle, perhaps?
This cultural thing about not 'just dropping in' is a general phenomenon and
can vary quite a bit at the individual level, plus you are talking about
your family here and not about neighbors - this can make a big difference
too in any culture.
 
>>  I think part of the probem is that as a nation we
>> are over cautious
>> about offending someone by invading their privacy which is the golden tennant
>> of British behaviour.
> 
> I was trying to figure this one out, reading all those mails about personal
> space preferences, and wondering why I was doing knee-jerk reactions to some
> of them. Now I think about it, I take it for granted that in most
> circumstances, "personal space", privacy, or whatever, is limited, and
> everyone present wants more of it than there is room for. So for someone to
> "excuse" a type of behaviour by saying that people of that type want more
> space seems arrogant: sure, they want more space, who doesn't? But who do they
> think they are to imagine that gives them a right to it? And reactions go
> downhill from there :(
> 
> It sounds from what you're saying that there are people who don't realise that
> personal space *can* be in short supply, and therefore don't naturally limit
> their use of it so as not to inconvenience others. Rural Americans being one
> example of this type of person?
And again here the other posters were referring not to a conscious
phenomenon but to an _unconscious_ phenomenon. This is a very well
documented occurrence in psychology. And even when people are conscious of
this phenomenon, it is still hard to change your personal programming. When
I was first in Germany (and _before_ I knew anything about this phenomenon)
and went to a place like, say, McDonalds and sat down to a table by my self,
there were times when people would come up and ask if the empty seats at my
table were taken. I was most surprised that anyone would have the nerve to
do this but not wanting to be 'rude' I let them sit but it was always a most
uncomfortable experience. On the flip side, I remember going with Germans to
eat, and if there were no free tables they would just ask at a table with
free seats if we could sit there - I could never ever do that! I still
can't, though I can tolerate it if people ask to sit with me. I don't know
them, I don't know their intensions, I don't want them to overhear my
conversations with others - my space is not longer private when they are
sitting next to me.

> Or is it really that their reaction to a *perceived* shortage of space is not
> to fit in with everyone's needs, but to push for as much as they can get
> without actually coming to blows? Competition, rather than cooperation?
Our personal space works like a proximity sensor. When people (esp unknowns)
get inside that space this is when our subconscious goes on alert to be
prepared to defend the body. This space is culturally defined and
programmed. - THIS IS A GENERALITY OF COURSE! and there are many variables,
like how long a space encroacher is in your space - walking down the
sidewalk, this person is only there for a second - but he is registered and
the body is still on alert but probably not to the discomfort level. Friends
and family are more likely (but not always) allowed inside that space,
because of a stronger relationship of trust.

> I wonder how this worked out in historical times? Population was lower: but I
> gather that living accomodation was cramped. Would they have naturally
> preferred lots of space, but worked out strategies for accomodating each other
> in cramped conditions?
But remember the people you were cramped in with were your family and
friends and people you knew and (hopefully) trusted. Maybe out in the big
world people were much more leery and had a personal boundary that was much
wider. However I don't know if anyone has (or is even able to) do this kind
of research for older times.

>Were those Big Skirts not saying "look how much fabric
> I can afford", but "look how much personal space I can insist on"?
Maybe... 

Cass :)

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With all this talk of differing behaviour, personal space etc, I'd like 
to ask a question.  I know list-friends will understand it is out of 
interest and no offence.

There was a recent incident here where someone was caught impersonating 
a student in an exam, but the staff admitted he was only caught because 
a member of the same ethnic group (south-east asian, I'm not sure more 
precise than that) was monitoring the exam.  He wasn't personally known 
to any of the other tutors in the room, and they admitted they wouldn't 
have noticed the difference.

I thought about it, and I realised that, living in a very varied 
population like we do in the UK and US, the first thing I would describe 
about someone was their hair colour and texture, because that splits 
people up into reasonably small groups very quickly.  People from less 
mixed populations, to my eyes are all squeezed into a very small part of 
that range,(for example, Asian/subcontinental - fine silky black hair, 
south-east Asian - thick straight black hair) so I find them difficult 
to tell apart, until I know them well enough to recognise features that 
in [genetically] European people I wouldn't pay so much attention to.

I was wondering whether people from communities which, to my eyes, seem 
all to have the same type of hair, identify by finer differences in hair 
colour and type, or is the first thing you distinguish a different 
feature which has more variety?

I hope this question makes sense to you.

Jean
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:52:28 +0000
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N Kipar  wrote
> --- Robin Netherton  wrote: >
>
>
>> expect people to "take up" a smaller share of space, they have a smaller
>> margin of squishiness around the edges of that space, so violations feel
>> more extreme. Don't blame this on me; it's just what I read ... somewhere
>
>Actually, there's also another thing, I read that depending on country the
>persoanl space is bigger and the no-no of touching is greater, kind of rule of
>thumb, the further North the less touchy-feely (here in Europe). They certainly
>do the kissie-kissie usually in France and Italy and Spain etc. and when I went
>to Denmark and Sweden no one did the kissie and touchy thing (demmit! shame
>that with all those hunks *grins*)
>
>Nicole

I'm not sure if it relates directly, but different languages also have 
different "default" volumes, so sometimes you may feel someone is 
shouting, other times they may appear to be being difficult by 
whispering, jsut depending on the norms of their native language.  And 
of course some have distinct differences between genders, like Japanese 
- men speak very loudly and harshly, women much more quietly and softly.

Jean

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 05:32:41 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:32:02 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- Jean Waddie  wrote: > 

> I was wondering whether people from communities which, to my eyes, seem 
> all to have the same type of hair, identify by finer differences in hair 
> colour and type, or is the first thing you distinguish a different 
> feature which has more variety?
> 
> I hope this question makes sense to you.

Yes Jean, it does, and I wonder if other genetic communities (can't find a
better term) have different types of identifiers. I frankly admit I have
problems telling people from China apart, or from Japan, for example, they 'all
look the same' which is of course not true,but my identifies are the same that
Jean's are: hair colour and eye colour. I can tell you what colour hair anyone
had I met, and that's why it's so difficult to me to recognise someone who was
wearing a wig or a covering hat. Being Caucasian and living in Western Europe
means that I am probably programmed to identify people by those identifiers,
but that wouldn't work in, say, China, now would it? 
I wonder what a hinese or Japanese makes of us, do we all 'look the same' too?

Nicole

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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N Kipar  wrote :

> I can tell you what colour hair
> anyone
> had I met, and that's why it's so difficult to me to recognise someone who
> was
> wearing a wig or a covering hat. 

And in most historical times, people tended to wear hair-coverings much more often, I believe? Did they have a different set of identifiers, too?




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Robin,
    Being a self-taught costumer before the SCA even
had authenticity guidelines, much less costume
contests, I always thought a cotehardie was a very
specific garment type worn during a very specific time
period.  I like the term Gothic Fitted Dress, much
less confusing.
                             Cassandra



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A friend of mine is selling some fabric, and requested that I pass along
the url for the Ebay auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=740872705

Regards,
Mara

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 --- Kevin & Mara Riley  wrote: > A friend of mine is selling
some fabric, and requested that I pass along
> the url for the Ebay auction:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=740872705
> 
Hi Mara, please tell your friend that the photo of the fabric is so small and
dark that it's impossible (at least on my computer here) to see it, let alone
the pattern. That will probably deter some people.

Cheers
Nicole

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:09:40 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

I'll chime in on the personal space thread as I am a
rural American and have been most of my life.  I work
for the post office and some of the machinery only has
a 3ft aisle betweent the machines and the racks and
there are 2 people walking around each other in that
space, next to, behind, etc.  How uncomfortable I am
depends on how well I get along with the person I am
working with, how long we've worked together and how
often we work together.  Someone you're around alot
doesn't tend to bother me as much because I know how
they'll do their part of the job and what they'll do
next.  But I do stay aware of them and where they're
at so we don't bump into each other and get hurt.
    At home we own 3 and 1/2 acres of land for our
yard and an 1800 square foot house for a family of 5
and there are days it feels cramped with three teens
and DH's book collection and my fabric collection.  I
realize in many parts of the world and the US this is
alot of space but it's what I grew up with.  I do try
to be aware of everyone else's personal space needs
because my daughters go to a school with alot of
people from other countries and it's easy for me to
violate space boundaries as I don't hear well.  I have
to be so close just to listen over the noise of the
basketball game or the other conversations, etc.  I've
noticed that almost all cultures tend to allow people
you trust or like closer than strangers and when
someone really feels threatening to your space then
they might not be someone you want to know better.
   I do suspect how much space you're comfortable with
has alot to do with how you grew up.  My grandmother's
sisters all slept in one room, all 5, until they each
married so they find being alone very uncomfortable.
   Linen question....what do they mean when they talk
about 3.5 oz linen or 2.5 oz linen and which one is
handkerchief linen?
                             Cassandra

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:04:38 +0000
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Bella wrote:
> 
>> So let's ask that question in reverse, since I'm
>> being 
>> pushed into ACW reenactment. How did your 
>> grandmother teach you to eat? Given a  knife and a 
>> fork, I can't imagine any reasonable method that 
>> *doesn't* have one in each hand.

>Ooh, I'll take a guess. Hold knife and fork only to
>cut, put down knife, take fork in right hand and place
>food in mouth?

I made the same guess. When my mother was teaching me table manners, I remember her telling me with some distaste that that was the way Americans ate (presumably based on having helped out at servicemen's canteens during the War.)



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 09:17:45 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:16:23 -0700
Status: RO

Jane, I think it's one of those Weird American Thangs. The Right-handers
among us take fork in left hand, knife in right, to cut something.  Fork
is then transferred to right hand to eat.
It confused the h*ll out of me when I first got a job as a
waitress...I'm left-handed, so I figured that right-handed folks would
do things the reverse of me, so I set the tables backwards .  Ah,
well, I guess that's what you call a learning experience.
Speaking of eating manners, though, I think I have noticed the American
tend to eat (myself included) with fork tines up, and Brits with fork
tines down? What's up with that? Or am I way off base, as well as
completely off-topic? 
--sue

Jane Williams wrote:
> 
> On 25 Nov 2002 at 15:13, Carolyn Kayta Barrows
> wrote:
> 
> >  I now eat
> > differently, with fork in one hand and knife in the other, instead of
> > the way my Grandmother taught me (which I save for ACW and other
> > American re-enacting).
> 
> So let's ask that question in reverse, since I'm being
> pushed into ACW reenactment. How did your
> grandmother teach you to eat? Given a  knife and a
> fork, I can't imagine any reasonable method that
> *doesn't* have one in each hand.
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Exhibit 16th-17th century clothing Munich Catalog
	Update
From: Cassandra Greer 
To: 
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:15:32 +0100
Status: RO

Hi All!

For those of you who are interested in getting the catalog, it seems after
talking to the curator that the 'quickest' and probably cheapest way to get
catalogs anywhere out of Germany is for me to do it for you.

I can do one of two things, the third thing needs help from someone else:

1) We could do PayPal to my cassandra@greer.de account:
You send 25 Euros + 5.10 E Shipping and packaging (done by the Museum) and
indicate this is an auction (so the money transfer costs go to you not me -
I don't want them). And then I trot down to the museum and have them sent it
to the address you give me. Then you wait 4-8 weeks for the package to come
by boat.

2) I run an Ebay auction with a fixed price (my EbayID is cassandragreer):
The you pay through PayPal: 25 Euros + 1.50 E Ebay fees + 5.10 E Shipping
and packaging (done by the Museum) and in PayPal indicate this is an auction
(so the money transfer costs go to you not me - I don't want them). And then
I trot down to the museum and have them sent it to the address you give me.
Then you wait 4-8 weeks for the package to come by boat. And we do the nice
mutual evaluation thing.

3) A distributor would be nice but by the time that gets all figured out
(and this curator has never done anything like that) and the distributor
actually finally gets the books and then adds their profit margin, it would
take even longer and probably be more expensive. Cassandra (the other one :)
has made a suggestion but I don't know how that is developing.

All of you who are interested please mail me your preference!

Cass :)

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Michaela wrote:

>That's a point though. Nearly all the art from the middle of the 18thC that
>abounds looks very summery indeed. I wonder if this is beacuse:
>a) the whole social structure was an attmpt to be light and summery and so
>representations of winter would have not fit in with this
>b) we selectively find and display this light/summery feeling because it's
>what we expect (as historians and compliers of books)
>c) It actually was over all warmer than other periods in history, just as
>there was a mini ice age during the medieval/dark ages. Not to the point
>that it was summer all year round of course;) Just warmer by that much to
>make a difference.

I thought the mini ice age was later than that (16th/17th centuries - not sure about the 18th). It was warm enough in early mediaeval times for people to live on Dartmoor, on heights which later became too bleak in winter. ___________


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Linda K-S wrote: [snip]

>A number of years ago I went to a science museum in Arizona with my 
>daughter who was rather young at that time. One of the sections was 
>on human interaction. A series of circles were scribed on the floor. 
>As we stood in the circles, faced each other as instructed and pushed 
>the conveniently placed buttons the narrator talked about persona 
>space and peoples reactions to it. as we moved up the series of 
>circles, we got closer. When about three feet away from each other, 
>the narrator said this is what is comfortable for Americans. When we 
>moved to the next circles at about two feet, the narrator said this 
>was the typical personal space of people in populace countries like 
>Japan and India. We both felt nervous and uncomfortable.

Desmond Morris writes about this kind of thing in "Manwatching", e.g. how people forced to stand close together in lifts (elevators) avoid looking at one another.

>I wonder how much large clothing plays in this. 

>Those of you who wear these larger dresses, how do you cope?

I only wear soft skirts with a modest bumroll, but once when wishing to get through a crowded doorway at an event I instinctively aimed for a narrow gap which, in my normal summer attire, I could easily have squeezed through, only to find that in costume I couldn't!





Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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Kate said:
>>>I made the same guess. When my mother was teaching me table manners, I 
remember her telling me with some distaste that that was the way Americans 
ate (presumably based on having helped out at servicemen's canteens during 
the War.)


OK, my background is American Southern (Texas South not Deep South), and 
table manners include: 
Use your fork in your dominant hand. 
Use your knife in your dominant hand and fork in off hand to cut.
NEVER use your knife while actually eating.  Only ignorant hicks do that.
Elbows off the table.
Chew with mouth closed, don't talk with your mouth full.
Talk to YOUR end of the table, do not ignore the people on either side of 
you.
Look people in the eye when speaking to them, and do not stare at your 
plate while listening.

And I know there's more, but it's all subconscious.
So, in England, obviously the first three are NOT true.  Are the rest 
considered good manners? 



-Magdalena
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type
 periods)
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote:

> I do have to say though that I go with the 'tombstone' remark: I hate
> those fake brilliant white teeth, just look at Halle Berry in the new
> James Bond film, it loks ridiculous and SO fake. I cannot imagine
> anyone with teeth like that looking even remotely convincing in period
> costume - any period other than Sci Fi.

It may be a mistake to assume that bad teeth were the historical norm.
Most tooth loss comes from plaque-related diseases (tooth decay and gum
disease). These were apparently not a great problem until refined sugar
became widely available -- that would be in the 16th century for the very
upper classes (in England at least; not sure about other countries) and
not till the 18th century for most people, due to new sources of refined
sugar.

Of course, in the Middle Ages, a broken or lost tooth couldn't be fixed or
replaced, and when you did get a tooth disease, you would have it pulled,
not have a root canal. But far fewer teeth were lost in the first place
than were, say, a century ago. (I believe this research was based on grave
finds; I'm not sure. I found it referenced in the dental literature when I
was working on a non-costume-related project, so I don't know where any
archaeological evidence might lie -- at least several generations of
citations back from the document I had.)

There were also a variety of teeth-cleaning methods in use historically,
depending on your class and culture. I was most amused at a scene in
Shakespeare in Love, when Gwyneth Paltrow is dressing, and her nurse hands
her some small instrument and demands she clean her teeth. I'm not sure
what the instrument was, but it looked like the equivalent of the
frayed-end stick used commonly by many more "primitive" cultures.

> If only people went for natural looking colours, like ivory and not
> screaming white, that would be so much better, and not those front
> rows of teeth that look like being chiselled out of one block.

Some people really do have screaming white teeth. Teeth color has as much
to do with genetics and the nutrients that you consumed while the teeth
were forming than it does with what you do to them afterward. Yes, you can
have them bleached, but it's certainly not what all Americans do. Please
don't judge the rest of us based on movie stars. I would expect that even
non-American movie stars have their teeth worked on.

--Robin

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cultural costume: was Ethnic posture?
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I just asked at the Ubiquitous Tourist Desk.  It probably helped that I
had a digital camera with a number of non-flash settings, and I wasn't
taking pix during worship services or anything. I didn't find much in
the particular cathedrals/churches I visited, although I did get this
cool picture of some spiral side-lacing on a gentleman's garment (late
14th c., IIRC w/out looking at my notes).
*Frustrating* was the enormous variance in photo/non-photo I found in
varying museums.  That, and my battery dying in the V&A!
--sue

N Kipar wrote:
> 
> 
> Costumy content: I love visiting cathedrals and churches because you never know
> what wonderful treasures of costumey bits might be hidden, and everytime I do,
> I am SO frightened I might do something 'wrong' so I tiptoe around and don't
> dare to go anywhere where there are not apparently loads of people already. I
> am mortified to be an 'ugly' tourist.
> 
> Nicole
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From: Drea Leed 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:35:13 -0500 (EST)
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Interesting!  I didn't know it was that widespread. I have heard a
theory from somewhere that the stereotypical laconic and taciturn nature
of the western "cowboy" was in part influenced by their society's contact
with native american cultures. Totally unsubstantiated, of course. :)

Drea



On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, leigh tartaglio wrote:

> > >  I read, a while back, about how members of an American Indian
> > > tribe in the Dakotas kept running afoul of the law and getting pulled
> > > into
> > > the station. Turns out that, in this particular tribe, a mark of respect
> > > was to wait a little before responding to a question or comment.
>
> Hi. That process is common with most Native American peoples from the
> Northeast to California. The Europeans first began to mention it as a
> pleasant
> peculiarity (Columbus' Voyages), but by the 16th Cent., it was beginning
> to be
> seen as the aforementioned "suspicious insolance" (De Las Casas' In
> Defense of
> the Indians) The intent was to show that one was carefully considering
> what
> the other had said, superfluous conversation being the mark of a foolish
> person. Sadly, at the very time period, verbosity both in speech and
> writing
> was held by Europeans to be the sign of highest education. No costume
> content
> here, sorry.  Mike T.
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From: Drea Leed 
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:24:39 -0500 (EST)
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>
> And in most historical times, people tended to wear hair-coverings much
>more often, I believe? Did they have a different set of identifiers, too?
>

When in college, I was lucky enough to do a month-long internship thing at
Plimoth Plantation.  I and ten other women were in the program.  We got to
know eachother as there was a lot of research, reading, dialect
practising, lectures, etc. before we went to plimoth.

I still remember being surprised at how /different/ everyone looked with
their hair pinned back and covered with a coif.  One noticed facial
features much more.  One woman I'd gotten used to thinking of as rather
plain actually looked prettier in a coif, while one blonde "pretty" woman
had a rather narrow and pointy face without her hair to balance it out.
The shape of the face and the shape and placement of nose, eyes and mouth
became the primary identifying marks.

I'd think that, with populations that share similar hair color and eye
color, the same would be true. Can anyone comment?

After the project was over, we were introduced to the Plimoth staff who
had worked with us.  It was equally jarring seeing women I'd only known in
coifs and corsets in modern clothes.  One woman had absolutely luverly
strawberry-blonde hair down past her hips.

Drea
 > >
>
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:05:21 -0800
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Robin Netherton wrote:
The so-called "integral" tippets are better called pendant sleeves; they 
would probably not have been called tippets in period. They consist of 
an extension of the fabric of a short sleeve to make a tail hanging off 
the back of the upper arm. That tail might be long or short, wide or 
narrow, squared off or rounded; there's lots of variation. They are 
almost always lined in fur. These are *not* the same as the other kind 
of tippets, and they were probably never called tippets. Having 
acknowledged this pendant-sleeve style, let's set it aside from the 
discussion.

Roscelin wrote:
I believe I know what kind of sleeve you describe here, but can you 
suggest a picture I can take a look at?

Big snip-
Robin wrote:
So, if you put together the idea of tippets being a part of the gown 
(not a separate piece), added to a short sleeve, and made of fur, you 
can come to a further conclusion. I have a much longer analysis that 
takes a lot of slides and words to explain, in which I examine the 
tippet style in context of other sleeve decorations from before, during, 
and after the brief period in which tippets are worn. The bottom line, 
though, is that it makes a lot more sense to view the tippet as another 
form of the fur-lined pendant sleeve, but with the fur turning to the 
outside of the end of the sleeve to form a sort of cuff, while retaining 
the pendant tail of fur as well.

Roscelin wrote:
What kind of fur was used?   And were these tippets worn by all classes 
of women?

>This interpretation handily eliminates the issue of how to attach tippets. :-) I sew mine on, as I would any other border/lining. See examples here:
>	http://www.barony-of-arnhold.org/gothicdress3.htm
>I hope to replace the fur on my current dress (the red and blue patterned wool) with real fur at some point soon, at which time I will test some refinements of my ideas on tippet construction.
>
Thank you for the example.  I'm looking forward to showing you everyone 
my GFD when Kat and I can work on it.  My health is delaying it right now.

>Hope this helps.
>
Yes, it did help in a big way.  Thank you once again.

Roscelin



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Sue Clemenger  wrote :

> Jane, I think it's one of those Weird American Thangs. The Right-handers
> among us take fork in left hand, knife in right, to cut something.  Fork
> is then transferred to right hand to eat.
> It confused the h*ll out of me when I first got a job as a
> waitress...I'm left-handed, so I figured that right-handed folks would
> do things the reverse of me, so I set the tables backwards .  

That would work in Britain. Right-handers take fork in left-hand, knife in right. Left handers do the reverse.

If I'm eating with only a fork, no knife, then I'd hold it in my right hand. Probably. (I'm near-ambidextrous, so *I* might just shovel food with left hand, operate mouse with right hand. This is probably bad table manners, but the PC doesn't care)

> Speaking of eating manners, though, I think I have noticed the American
> tend to eat (myself included) with fork tines up, and Brits with fork
> tines down? What's up with that? 

What I personally do is to use the fork tines down for stabbing stuff, and tines up for scooping things like peas. Its works better that way. But I seem to remember being told that tines up is impolite (not sure why). I always thought dropping peas all over the floor was even worse :)


> Or am I way off base, as well as completely off-topic? 

No idea. But I reckon a knife and fork are often accesories to ones costume, and using them correctly for the period/place is like wearing them correctly.
If list moderators disagree, I'll go away quietly (and maybe move this to a Cooking list).




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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:22:27 -0500
Status: RO

        Sometimes it is easy to generalize on other nationalities, but it
really doesn't work with Americans.  I live in the south and have lived
in both rural and urban areas.  In the rural south you will find many,
many people in their teens and early twenties with gaps where their teeth
used to be (or worse, just rotten teeth).  I can't speak for the north
because I haven't lived there and it would be about the same as my saying
how things are in England.  My first crown was put in at the age of
nineteen  - right in the front.  Now I am past your fifty mark and have a
mouth full of crowns and permanent bridges.  And what I wouldn't give for
those sparkly white teeth that they push on TV.  You might be able to
bleach real teeth, but crowns and bridges won't change so I am stuck with
"natural" looking teeth.

        Don't consider this a flame, just remember that we Americans are
about as diverse a bunch as the whole rest of the world put together.  

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cultural costume: was Ethnic posture?
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:25:38 -0500
Status: RO

        And that is the problem I was talking about before.  My sister
and I were mistaken for natives in Rome because we dressed properly and
didn't go around screaming at each other.  It was difficult because we
only had the most basic knowledge of the language.  Americans are not all
alike.  You notice the noisy, gross ones that would not be appreciated
here either.  You think we are all like that because the rest of us try
not to be obnoxious so you don't see us as Americans.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:27:50 -0500
Status: RO

<<>> 

        Who said it was reasonable.  It is a real bother to pick up the
fork in the left hand to hold the meat and the knife in the right hand to
cut it.  Then lay the knife down and transfer the fork to the right hand.
 And to make it worse, you aren't supposed to cut it all up at once. 
Just one bite at a time.  Reasonable?   HA!

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 11:34:06 2002
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From: Elizabeth Young 
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Subject: Dropping in, was [h-cost] Ethnic posture
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:35:57 -0800
Status: RO

Cassandra Greer wrote:

>This cultural thing about not 'just dropping in' is a general phenomenon and
>can vary quite a bit at the individual level, plus you are talking about
>your family here and not about neighbors - this can make a big difference
>too in any culture.
>
I grew up in the rural Midwest of the United States, and spent summers 
in rural Ontario, Canada.
'Dropping in' on neighbors depended very much on how well you knew them. 
The next-door neighbors (1/4 mile away) had kids the same age as my 
sister and I and our parents were good friends: we would sometimes have 
Thanksgiving over at their house and vice versa. With this family, we 
operated on a 'knock and come in' policy. Knock on the door, open the 
door, stick your head in and holler "Anyone home?". This only if no-one 
was outside in the yard or barns. Most of the time, people were outside 
anyway.
In Ontario, we were some of the 'summer people' - owners of some 
vacation property. However, my father's parents had grown up near by and 
had met and married up there. So we weren't quite vacationers, more like 
misplaced relatives. Any of Dad's relatives, even ones he had never met, 
or not seen for decades, had an open ticket to drop in anytime we were 
up there. Dropping in was usually by boat, so you'd see them coming a 
mile off. Visitors would knock first and wait for some one to come to 
the door.
I've decided that our family's form of dropping in is unusual. But I 
miss it.
Grandma (the Canadian one) was born in 1898 and always wore dresses or 
skirts. I don't remember ever seeing her in trousers. See, costume content!

Liz
lizyoung@fenris.net


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 11:41:16 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:40:41 GMT
Status: RO

Christina L Biles  wrote :

> OK, my background is American Southern (Texas South not Deep South), and 
> table manners include: 
> Use your fork in your dominant hand. 
> Use your knife in your dominant hand and fork in off hand to cut.
> NEVER use your knife while actually eating.  Only ignorant hicks do that.

> So, in England, obviously the first three are NOT true. 

Two and a half, I'd say. The rule about knives is that you don't bring your knife to your mouth, only your fork. "Eating peas off the knife" is (was) a saying indicating oafishness.

"I eat my peas with honey
I've done it all my life
It makes the peas taste funny
But it keeps them on the knife"

As I understand your description, you'd cut off a bite-size bit of food, then put the knife down, transfer the fork (presumably still in the chunk of food) to your right hand, and then eat it? Isn't that rather slow?

> Are the rest  considered good manners? 

> Elbows off the table.

Yes: though this one is often ignored if the table has plenty of room and the circumstances are casual. Pushing plates aside to find room for elbows is still not on.

> Chew with mouth closed, don't talk with your mouth full.

Yes.

> Talk to YOUR end of the table, do not ignore the people on either side of 
> you.

Yes: especially as talking beyond your immediate companions means SHOUTING. And only Americans do that :)

> Look people in the eye when speaking to them, 

Yes, under all circumstances: not looking people in the eye indicates dishonesty/shiftyness

> and do not stare at your plate while listening.

I've never heard that one expressed as such, but it fits with my experience. Maintaining eye contact with the person you're talking to is normal.

Most of the rest is "obvious": generally covered by "don't be unhygienic".

How about soup spoons? Always take soup from the side of the bowl away from you, and if you must tip it, tip it away from you? I've never understood "why" for that one.




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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:50:21 GMT
Status: RO

Lalah T Tillinghast  wrote :

> And that is the problem I was talking about before.

What is? I see nothing quoted :(

> Americans are not all
> alike.  You notice the noisy, gross ones that would not be appreciated
> here either. 

This is true.

> You think we are all like that because the rest of us try
> not to be obnoxious so you don't see us as Americans.

But this is not true. We see you as *people*, not as stereotypes to be avoided. A vast improvement!





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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:52:14 -0500
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<<>>

        Yep, my mother stressed that too (American mother in American
Florida).  And I don't understand it either.  I asked my mother why (I
always asked why about everything) but she just said it was the proper
thing to do. 

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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<<>>

        Sorry, Juno sent the messages out of order.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:32:23 -0600
Status: RO

>>>As I understand your description, you'd cut off a bite-size bit of 
food, then put the knife down, transfer the fork (presumably still in the 
chunk of food) to your right hand, and then eat it? Isn't that rather 
slow?

Worse - You take the fork out of the food, transfer it to the other hand, 
and then put it back in.  Since I'm a heathen, I cut it all up at once, 
but I wouldn't do that at a formal dinner party.


>>>How about soup spoons? Always take soup from the side of the bowl away 
from you, and if you must tip it, tip it away from you? I've never 
understood "why" for that one.

Mom didn't cover tipping.  Actually, though, thinking about it, I think 
the unspoken rule is that if you can't get it out with the bowl flat, you 
don't get it at all.


Christina Biles
Digital Library Services
Edmon Low Library
Oklahoma State University
Phone   (405) 744-1215 
Email     bilescl@okstate.edu 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic & historical eating
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:27:11 +0000
Status: RO

Nicole,
You should try eating curries daintily with the right hand only and 
keeping both your garb and area around your mouth clean - especially the 
soupy sauces! And the incentive is there - you NEVER get  the Tumeric 
stains out of your clothing not to mention your fingers!!!

Marcus.

On Tuesday, November 26, 2002, at 08:16  am, N Kipar wrote:


> Nicole - who LOVES to eat daintily with her fingers coz she was never 
> allowed
> to misbehave even the slightest bit back home at table. ;-)
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:42:54 +0000
Status: RO

Magdalena wrote:

>OK, my background is American Southern (Texas South not Deep South), >and table manners include: 
>Use your fork in your dominant hand. 
>Use your knife in your dominant hand and fork in off hand to cut.
>NEVER use your knife while actually eating.  Only ignorant hicks do that.
>Elbows off the table.
>Chew with mouth closed, don't talk with your mouth full.
>Talk to YOUR end of the table, do not ignore the people on either side of 
>you.
>Look people in the eye when speaking to them, and do not stare at your 
>plate while listening.

>And I know there's more, but it's all subconscious.
>So, in England, obviously the first three are NOT true.  Are the rest 
>considered good manners? 

Yes. Of course, now that ethnic dishes that don't require cutting-up are commonly  eaten here, it's quite acceptable to use a fork only, but when you *are* using a knife the convention is still that you keep it in your right hand  while eating and use the fork tines-down in your left.

Historical, even if not costume, content; Another interesting convention is that if you have a bread roll with your main meal you don't bite into it but break pieces off; apparently this goes back to the Middle Ages when leftover bread was collected up to be given to the poor.



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 13:02:51 2002
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 03:01:34 +0100
Status: RO

What aboud a fourth option?
It won't work for everyone.......
What aboud bringing it ?
Around Newyear or so...
:-) :-P :-P :-P

Greetings,
        Deredere

Cassandra Greer wrote:

>Hi All!
>
>For those of you who are interested in getting the catalog, it seems after
>talking to the curator that the 'quickest' and probably cheapest way to get
>catalogs anywhere out of Germany is for me to do it for you.
>
>I can do one of two things, the third thing needs help from someone else:
>
>1) We could do PayPal to my cassandra@greer.de account:
>You send 25 Euros + 5.10 E Shipping and packaging (done by the Museum) and
>indicate this is an auction (so the money transfer costs go to you not me -
>I don't want them). And then I trot down to the museum and have them sent it
>to the address you give me. Then you wait 4-8 weeks for the package to come
>by boat.
>
>2) I run an Ebay auction with a fixed price (my EbayID is cassandragreer):
>The you pay through PayPal: 25 Euros + 1.50 E Ebay fees + 5.10 E Shipping
>and packaging (done by the Museum) and in PayPal indicate this is an auction
>(so the money transfer costs go to you not me - I don't want them). And then
>I trot down to the museum and have them sent it to the address you give me.
>Then you wait 4-8 weeks for the package to come by boat. And we do the nice
>mutual evaluation thing.
>
>3) A distributor would be nice but by the time that gets all figured out
>(and this curator has never done anything like that) and the distributor
>actually finally gets the books and then adds their profit margin, it would
>take even longer and probably be more expensive. Cassandra (the other one :)
>has made a suggestion but I don't know how that is developing.
>
>All of you who are interested please mail me your preference!
>
>Cass :)
>
>_______________________________________________
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>
>  
>



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To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com
From: Margo Anderson 
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re:
  body type periods)
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:06:55 -0800
Status: RO


>There were also a variety of teeth-cleaning methods in use historically,
>depending on your class and culture. I was most amused at a scene in
>Shakespeare in Love, when Gwyneth Paltrow is dressing, and her nurse hands
>her some small instrument and demands she clean her teeth. I'm not sure
>what the instrument was, but it looked like the equivalent of the
>frayed-end stick used commonly by many more "primitive" cultures.
>

I actually thought this was a bit off.  Clothing inventories of the time
make reference to embroidered "tooth cloths".  I would have had her rubbing
her teeth with a bit of exquisite blackwork.

Myself, due to a dental phobia combined with poverty at a crucial time, I
have very authentic looking teeth for a middle aged ELizabethan noblewoman. 

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type
 periods)
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:25:22 -0600 (CST)
Status: RO


On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Lalah T Tillinghast wrote:

>         Don't consider this a flame, just remember that we Americans
> are about as diverse a bunch as the whole rest of the world put
> together.

Another point worth remembering is that a non-USian who doesn't travel to
the US is likely to encounter only USians who are well-off enough to
travel abroad. If you form your impression of all Americans on that (and
on TV shows, which, of course, show actors), then you're not getting a
full view.

--Robin


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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] GFD
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:33:38 -0600 (CST)
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Cascio Michael wrote:

> Robin,
>     Being a self-taught costumer before the SCA even had authenticity
> guidelines, much less costume contests, I always thought a cotehardie
> was a very specific garment type worn during a very specific time
> period.

Yes. And, based on documentary references, it was very likely a man's
garment. I've seen two (possibly three?) references that may suggest the
use of the word for a woman's garment, but they're pretty vague and open
to dispute.

Whether you read the references as male or female, it was also very
clearly an overgarment, not a basic main-layer dress/cote.

In the SCA, though, and in some costume books, it appears the term has
come to refer to any fitted dress from a 200-year period. This creates
real problems in communication -- for instance, I might make a statement
about a "cotehardie" (meaning a man's close-fitted short overgarment from
about 1380) and someone will then apply what I said to a woman's dress
from another century or culture.

> I like the term Gothic Fitted Dress, much less confusing.

The one drawback I've found so far is that when some group announces that
I'll be lecturing on the "Gothic fitted dress," they don't get near as
much interest as when they say, "You know, the cotehardie." ;-)

--Robin


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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:31:22 -0800
Status: RO


> > Or am I way off base, as well as completely off-topic?
>
>No idea. But I reckon a knife and fork are often accesories to ones 
>costume, and using them correctly for the period/place is like wearing 
>them correctly.
>If list moderators disagree, I'll go away quietly (and maybe move this to 
>a Cooking list).

The only time the subject of table manners even comes up is when I'm in 
costume.  Few table manners seem to be required at places like 
McDonalds.  But, thanks to my grandmother, I sit down to my burger and 
fries and automatically unfold my napkin/serviette and put it in my lap.

My Mrs. Foote, the Cockney, tries to eat like a working-class English 
person from about 1850, or at least to give that impression to the tourists 
who share the same picnic table in front of whatever food booth I got lunch 
at.  My ACW character, American and middle class, uses my/Kayta's 
grandmother's 1890s table manners, and eats food from a picnic hamper while 
sitting on a lawn.  My usual Ren. character (a German Kampfrau named Käthe) 
eats with her fingers, or uses a spoon for the liquid bits of the stew.  My 
SCA minor-noble German character (also called Käthe, but with 'von' and 
some extra bits at the end) is daintier with her fingers, and actually 
owns/uses a fork.

My re-enacting daughter loved the Ren. 'table manners', but so disliked the 
Victorian ones that we had to turn said dislike into a comic bit - I 
scolded, looked away for 3 seconds during which time she stuck out her 
tongue, then looked back, by which time the tongue was hidden again and her 
face was doing 'who, me?' innocent.


Kayta

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: Dropping in, was [h-cost] Ethnic posture
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:35:07 -0800
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>Grandma (the Canadian one) was born in 1898 and always wore dresses or 
>skirts. I don't remember ever seeing her in trousers. See, costume content!

I have seen the only photo of my 1880 grandmother in trousers.  The 
expression on her face is clearly one of somebody who is just waiting for 
the photo to be taken, then she can change back into skirts.  But she 
showed me how to walk in a long skirt - ball of the foot first, not heel 
first - such that you really can balance that book on your head.

Kayta

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic & historical eating
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:40:50 -0800
Status: RO


>You should try eating curries daintily with the right hand only and 
>keeping both your garb and area around your mouth clean - especially the 
>soupy sauces! And the incentive is there - you NEVER get  the Tumeric 
>stains out of your clothing not to mention your fingers!!!

Turmeric stains are not colour-fast, so they fade rapidly, in my 
experience.  Alternatively, over-dye the whole thing in turmeric?


Kayta

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating soup
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:37:38 -0800
Status: RO


>How about soup spoons? Always take soup from the side of the bowl away 
>from you, and if you must tip it, tip it away from you? I've never 
>understood "why" for that one.

Probably so you don't accidentally spill it in your lap.


Kayta

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:36:27 -0600 (CST)
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Roscelin wrote:

> Robin Netherton wrote:
> The so-called "integral" tippets are better called pendant sleeves;
> they would probably not have been called tippets in period. They
> consist of an extension of the fabric of a short sleeve to make a tail
> hanging off the back of the upper arm. That tail might be long or
> short, wide or narrow, squared off or rounded; there's lots of
> variation. They are almost always lined in fur. These are *not* the
> same as the other kind of tippets, and they were probably never called
> tippets.
> 
> Roscelin wrote:
> I believe I know what kind of sleeve you describe here, but can you 
> suggest a picture I can take a look at?

Here's a pendant sleeve:

http://philae.sas.upenn.edu/French/15.jpg

These are squared off and rather wide. You can barely see how the blue
fabric would extend down the back (outer) surface, and the fur lining
shows on the front (inner) surface, which faces us.

Here's another:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/bnf/images/bnf030.jpg

Christine de Pisan is shown twice in a blue dress with rather short
pendant sleeves, fur-lined. This time the fabric side is facing us, so you
can just barely see the fur peeking out around the edges.

I've seen narrower and longer examples, in manuscripts and tapestries, but
I don't know of online images of these offhand. Sometimes you see dagged
pendant sleeves, which are really fun :-)

> Robin wrote:
> So, if you put together the idea of tippets being a part of the gown 
> (not a separate piece), added to a short sleeve, and made of fur, you 
> can come to a further conclusion. I have a much longer analysis that 
> takes a lot of slides and words to explain, in which I examine the 
> tippet style in context of other sleeve decorations from before, during, 
> and after the brief period in which tippets are worn. The bottom line, 
> though, is that it makes a lot more sense to view the tippet as another 
> form of the fur-lined pendant sleeve, but with the fur turning to the 
> outside of the end of the sleeve to form a sort of cuff, while retaining 
> the pendant tail of fur as well.
> 
> Roscelin wrote:
> What kind of fur was used?   And were these tippets worn by all classes 
> of women?

Fur is a sign of class and wealth. As far as I can tell, tippets only
appear on upper-class versions of the fitted overdress. Fitted
underdresses (by which I mean not underwear, but the basic main garment
worn over the chemise), in general, appear on a much broader range
(including middle class, artisans, etc. but probably not peasants, despite
the single, isolated romanticized example of the reapers in the Tres
Riches Heures). However, tippets would appear only on a fitted *overdress*
by definition because it's short-sleeved. I can't recall seeing them in
anything but a "leisure-class" context. Think royals, nobles, courtiers,
wealthy landowners.

--Robin

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From: mabse@attbi.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:30:52 +0000
Status: RO

sorry you took it that way, I really was amused by your comment and not at all 
offended. At the very least, it was nicely original. I just always wanted to be 
a barbie doll.  I like that whole waist thing. I always wanted one of those and 
even when I was extremely thin I never had one. 
I still say that I look like a generic fat middle age woman of indeterminent 
time period, of course, that is easy for me to say, no generic lower middle 
class woman would have been 5"10" tall or as everyone else has pointed out, had 
perfect teeth in any time period except this one.  Now that I think about it, I 
probably couldn't pass for any time period.  Oh well, I guess I just have to be 
in it for the dress up part and do my best to be believable.  maryann
>  --- MaryAnn Jones  wrote: > Nicole - you think that I look
> like a plasticy barbie doll because I am 
> > American?  thank you so much.  that is so flattering.  no one has ever 
> > compared me to a barbie doll before.  I have to say, that I have traveled 
> > all over, and I always look out of place.  Of course, I look out of place 
> > in my office where I work.  I just dress in such an idiosyncratic way that 
> > I don't look particularly normal anywhere.  And I do think that you are 
> > wrong.  Put me in a lower middle class Elizabethan outfit and I look pretty 
> > much right.  I just look like a fat middle age peasant of an indeterminate 
> > time period. Maryann
> 
> CALM DOWN!
> Don't be over-sensitive, it's A) not needed and B) not called for, take what I
> said as I tried to explain how I meant it, if one is not allowed to voice one's
> opinion while explaining that it isn't meant as rude while it is being
> impossible to word it in another way, then hell, out with personal opinions and
> we all think the same and be the same, right?
> Besides, why do you think I said that about you. Gosh. I don't take everything
> that is said about 'the Germans' or 'the people in England' personally, because
> that's not how it is meant.
> 
> Nicole
> 
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
> 
> __________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] ethnic posture / identification
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:14:03 +0000
Status: RO


On Monday, November 25, 2002, at 10:08  pm, Jean Waddie wrote:

> I thought about it, and I realised that, living in a very varied 
> population like we do in the UK and US, the first thing I would 
> describe about someone was their hair colour and texture, because that 
> splits people up into reasonably small groups very quickly.  People 
> from less mixed populations, to my eyes are all squeezed into a very 
> small part of that range,(for example, Asian/subcontinental - fine 
> silky black hair, south-east Asian - thick straight black hair) so I 
> find them difficult to tell apart, until I know them well enough to 
> recognise features that in [genetically] European people I wouldn't pay 
> so much attention to.

I think exposure helps.Growing up I had a Zulu nanny and a Xhosa nanny 
at various times and became accustomed to their features and body types 
which made telling racial variations easier measured against the Kikuyu 
or Masai,but by no means precise and reliable.Later in New York I was 
exposed to more Asian Peoples and that helped to distinguish some a bit 
more accurately.
>
> I was wondering whether people from communities which, to my eyes, seem 
> all to have the same type of hair, identify by finer differences in 
> hair colour and type, or is the first thing you distinguish a different 
> feature which has more variety?

I can differentiate between the Chinese and Japanese and the Filipino's 
but not more than that.For me a lot has to do with the position and 
proportion of features balanced against complexion colouring but this 
isn't an infallible system.I can't always place an Indian if they aren't 
Bengali and I do sometimes confuse Afghan's with Kashmiri's which makes 
my reenactment stuff a bit flawed.

Marcus.

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From: "Jane Williams" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:19:12 -0000
Status: RO

On 26 Nov 2002 at 11:03, Cassandra Greer wrote:


> >>  Just to demonstrate my in-laws haven't been in our house more than
> >>  two or
> >>three times in the last year.  Why?  Becuase they haven't been
> >>invited and don't want to pop in.  
 
> > I get it the other way round: my mother-in-law complains that we
> > haven't been to see her. ....

> This cultural thing about not 'just dropping in' is a general
> phenomenon and can vary quite a bit at the individual level, plus you
> are talking about your family here and not about neighbors - this can
> make a big difference too in any culture.

No, I'm talking about my husband's family, not mine. 
I gather she grew up in Wales, which no doubt alters 
her reactions. But my relationship to her is just the 
same as to a neighbour: someone with whom 
circumstances have thrown you into proximity, with 
little or no choice involved. Chance may end up 
making you friends, or not, but you first meet as 
adults: this is nothing like *family*, the people you've 
grown up with.

No doubt this is another thing where cultures differ :)

> And again here the other posters were referring not to a conscious
> phenomenon but to an _unconscious_ phenomenon.

Well, sure: but they do overlap! 

 
> Our personal space works like a proximity sensor. When people (esp
> unknowns) get inside that space this is when our subconscious goes on
> alert to be prepared to defend the body. This space is culturally
> defined and programmed. - THIS IS A GENERALITY OF COURSE! and there
> are many variables,

Thinking about it, my own proximity sensor radius 
varies enormously with circumstances. In a 
backstreet at night, it'll fire up danger signals at 100 
yards or so. In the London Underground in the 
rushhour, it'll stay quiet as long as the person I'm 
crushed up against isn't actually causing me pain. I 
can't say I enjoy being that cramped, but I wouldn't 
percieve proximity as a threat. It all depends on what 
the "norm" distance is under those circumstances: 
anyone getting closer to me than the "norm" is a 
threat, anyone "demanding" more space than others 
around them is percieved as aggressive and 
therefore a threat (even if I'm not the one they're 
close to!)

Funny thing, the subconscious.

> > I wonder how this worked out in historical times? Population was
> > lower: but I gather that living accomodation was cramped. Would they
> > have naturally preferred lots of space, but worked out strategies
> > for accomodating each other in cramped conditions?

> But remember the people you were cramped in with were your family and
> friends and people you knew and (hopefully) trusted. 

That's true.

> Maybe out in the
> big world people were much more leery and had a personal boundary that
> was much wider. However I don't know if anyone has (or is even able
> to) do this kind of research for older times.

I suppose we could look at portraits, and see how 
close people are to each other in them. Although 
realistic representation does seem to be lacking :(



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 15:29:19 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Tumeric over dye/ Ethnic & historical eating
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:24:35 +0000
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On Tuesday, November 26, 2002, at 06:40  pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:


> Turmeric stains are not colour-fast, so they fade rapidly, in my 
> experience.

Whats 'rapid' vs how many washes?

>  Alternatively, over-dye the whole thing in turmeric?

Thank you but one over-dye experience;two dye runs in a small washer and 
literally hours of tugging and easing the sari lining back into place 
because of the fake metallic threads contracting,not to mention some 
shrinking and a gore insertion to reverse the damage - was enough for 
me.In future I hope to dye before the garment is made-up.

Marcus.

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
From: Cassandra Greer 
To: 
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:31:45 +0100
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> On 26 Nov 2002 at 11:03, Cassandra Greer wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>  Just to demonstrate my in-laws haven't been in our house more than
>>>>  two or
>>>> three times in the last year.  Why?  Becuase they haven't been
>>>> invited and don't want to pop in.
> 
>>> I get it the other way round: my mother-in-law complains that we
>>> haven't been to see her. ....
> 
>> This cultural thing about not 'just dropping in' is a general
>> phenomenon and can vary quite a bit at the individual level, plus you
>> are talking about your family here and not about neighbors - this can
>> make a big difference too in any culture.
> 
> No, I'm talking about my husband's family, not mine.
> I gather she grew up in Wales, which no doubt alters
> her reactions. But my relationship to her is just the
> same as to a neighbour: someone with whom
> circumstances have thrown you into proximity, with
> little or no choice involved. Chance may end up
> making you friends, or not, but you first meet as
> adults: this is nothing like *family*, the people you've
> grown up with.
Whether you consider your husband's family your family is also a cultural
thing. She may think since you married your husband you therefore also count
as family and then she treats you accordingly. That is certainly how it is
with my husband's family, especially my mother-in-law (a German)! She tries
to treat me like a daughter or something - I've lost guest status and
therefore I have to scrounge in her linen closet when I'm there (obligatory
costume content ;) - which is actually a bit closer than I would like at
this point. - or maybe it is a mother-in-law thing...

> 
> No doubt this is another thing where cultures differ :)
> 
>> And again here the other posters were referring not to a conscious
>> phenomenon but to an _unconscious_ phenomenon.
> 
> Well, sure: but they do overlap!
Yes, especially when unconscious things are brought to our attention. When
one knows about the boundary thing, one starts noticing the differences.

Cass :)

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 15:36:15 2002
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 And to make it worse, you aren't supposed to cut it all up at once. 
Just one bite at a time.  Reasonable?   HA!

Lalah


Unless assisting some one who can't manage their
 knife safely- the very young or very old..
just my $.02
Betsy
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 16:06:48 2002
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:05:15 -0800
Status: RO



Lalah T Tillinghast wrote:

> << from you, and if you must tip it, tip it away from you? I've never
> understood "why" for that one.>>>
>
>         Yep, my mother stressed that too (American mother in American
> Florida).  And I don't understand it either.  I asked my mother why (I
> always asked why about everything) but she just said it was the proper
> thing to do.
>
>

Well, being basically a pleb, my parents were never much for table manners
except for not talking with your mouth full or eating with your fingers
(much), so
I only learned about the soup thing later in life. I've tried it a couple of
times
and I think it makes it easier to get the dregs of the soup out without a
great
deal of unseemly plate scraping *grin*

Claire


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 16:07:11 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] 15th c. dye recipes online
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:05:22 -0500 (EST)
Status: RO

Guys,

I recently scanned in the 8th chapter of Segreti per Colori,
the one that deals with fabric & leather dyeing, for my own use while
studying.  I just got a (very plain) version of the text online.

http://costume.dm.net/dyes/segreti.htm

Share and Enjoy!

Drea

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Nov 26 16:09:41 2002
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:08:33 -0800
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Kate M Bunting wrote:

> Michaela wrote:
>
> >That's a point though. Nearly all the art from the middle of the 18thC that
> >abounds looks very summery indeed. I wonder if this is beacuse:
> >a) the whole social structure was an attmpt to be light and summery and so
> >representations of winter would have not fit in with this
> >b) we selectively find and display this light/summery feeling because it's
> >what we expect (as historians and compliers of books)
> >c) It actually was over all warmer than other periods in history, just as
> >there was a mini ice age during the medieval/dark ages. Not to the point
> >that it was summer all year round of course;) Just warmer by that much to
> >make a difference.
>
> I thought the mini ice age was later than that (16th/17th centuries - not sure about the 18th). It was warm enough in early mediaeval times for people to live on Dartmoor, on heights which later became too bleak in winter. ___________

There was indeed an early mediaeval warm period - it began in the 10th century
I think, or perhaps a little before and lasted until the fourteenth. The 'Little Ice
Age began at the end of the 14th (roughly) and lasted until some time in the 19th
century. So it wasn't really warmer in the 18th century (unless there was a brief
respite, but I don't know about that), nor during the Regency period when women
wore all those skimpy gowns.
Claire

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Sorry for this but none of my postings seem to be getting thru !

Mel

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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
To: "LIST H costume" 
Subject: Fw: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body typeperiods)
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----- Original Message -----
From: Melanie Wilson 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body
typeperiods)


> >Most tooth loss comes from plaque-related diseases (tooth decay and gum
> disease). These were apparently not a great problem until refined sugar
> became widely available
>
Peridontal disease and absesses were wide spread long before sugar was
around, there is some evidence of decay but as you say it tends to be less
than now. Another big problem is wear from grit etc this wears away the
enamal & leave the tooth more open to decay
>
> >Of course, in the Middle Ages, a broken or lost tooth couldn't be fixed
or
> replaced, and when you did get a tooth disease, you would have it pulled,
>
 Depends where but there were so instances of repairs
>
> >But far fewer teeth were lost in the first place
> than were, say, a century ago.
>
 Hmm not sure on this one, I've seen skellys with no teeth at all one lady
dubbed Godiva lost hers so long before death even the jaw had remoudled &
there were no holes visible at all (where teeth would have been)
>
>  >There were also a variety of teeth-cleaning methods in use historically,
> depending on your class and culture. I was most amused at a scene in
> Shakespeare in Love, when Gwyneth Paltrow is dressing, and her nurse hands
> her some small instrument and demands she clean her teeth. I'm not sure
> what the instrument was, but it looked like the equivalent of the
> frayed-end stick used commonly by many more "primitive" cultures.
>
Tooth picks are common archaelogical finds, reminies from leechdoms &
medical manuals are pretty common too.
>
> > If only people went for natural looking colours, like ivory and not
> > screaming white, that would be so much better, and not those front
> > rows of teeth that look like being chiselled out of one block.
>
With
bigger jaws their tooth alighnment would be very good. Their mouths probaly
stank from peridontal diese & had plenty of plaque built up :)

Mel
>
>
> This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
> it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
> the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
> this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
> Company, unless specifically stated.
>
>


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Subject: [h-cost] Fw: fluoride
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> >Out of curiosity - are there places in Europe that add fluoride to their
> drinking water? It's done all over the US as a way to improve dental
> health...
>
Yes it is done in England in my area at least, I hate that, tastes foul, now
we tend to buy bottled water like the continentals so it is a pretty
pointless excersise !!

 Mel
>
> This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
> it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
> the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
> this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
> Company, unless specifically stated.
>
>


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N Kipar wrote:

>  --- Cassandra Greer  wrote: > >> O
> > compliments on my white teeth here in Germany, while an incredible number of
> > friends around my age (36) and sometimes in their 20's have gapes where
> > teeth have been removed or/and are getting crowns (can we count this as
> > costume content? ;), conditions that I don't generally expect in Americans
> > until they get to their 50's.
>
> I do have to say though that I go with the 'tombstone' remark: I hate those
> fake brilliant white teeth, just look at Halle Berry in the new James Bond
> film, it loks ridiculous and SO fake. I cannot imagine anyone with teeth like
> that looking even remotely convincing in period costume - any period other than
> Sci Fi. Pierce Brosnan on the other hand, with his well-kept but natural
> coloured Irish teeth :-) - has a soft spot for Pierce Brosnan and the
> oh-so-sexy Irish Republic accent anyway - looks natural and real.
> If only people went for natural looking colours, like ivory and not screaming
> white, that would be so much better, and not those front rows of teeth that
> look like being chiselled out of one block.
>

I think jealousy is more my feeling towards such teeth. I have good teeth in the
sense that I'm nearly thirty and I have no fillings, or any other sort of work, but

I have worn braces. I have very large teeth, and a very small mouth. Even with
wisdom and four other adult teeth removed and about four years of braces and
retainers (and countless dental horrors I will spare you from) my teeth are pretty
crooked. So I can pass for period in the sense that I look like someone who needs
braces and hasn't had them. On the other hand, in the ages before orthodontics
I'd probably have a very deformed set of teeth indeed.

Claire

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I've been looking at tiara's, their history and how the styles change from 
say the 1850's to 1920's and then I found this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=982792438&tc=photo

It was too gorgeous, I had to share. And if anyone here buys it, I'll be 
forever jealous >; )


Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis



--=====================_14721406==_.ALT
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I've been looking at tiara's, their history and how the styles change
from say the 1850's to 1920's and then I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=982792438&tc=photo


It was too gorgeous, I had to share. And if anyone here buys it, I'll be
forever jealous >; )




Gwyn Carnegie

University of California at Davis 






--=====================_14721406==_.ALT--

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N Kipar wrote:

>  --- Jean Waddie  wrote: >
>
> > I was wondering whether people from communities which, to my eyes, seem
> > all to have the same type of hair, identify by finer differences in hair
> > colour and type, or is the first thing you distinguish a different
> > feature which has more variety?
> >
> > I hope this question makes sense to you.
>
> Yes Jean, it does, and I wonder if other genetic communities (can't find a
> better term) have different types of identifiers. I frankly admit I have
> problems telling people from China apart, or from Japan, for example, they 'all
> look the same' which is of course not true,but my identifies are the same that
> Jean's are: hair colour and eye colour. I can tell you what colour hair anyone
> had I met, and that's why it's so difficult to me to recognise someone who was
> wearing a wig or a covering hat. Being Caucasian and living in Western Europe
> means that I am probably programmed to identify people by those identifiers,
> but that wouldn't work in, say, China, now would it?
> I wonder what a hinese or Japanese makes of us, do we all 'look the same' too?

I seem to distinguish people by hairstyle and facial structure - or pick out a
memorable facial feature eg crooked nose etc. I find that I don't have trouble
distinguishing between people of different ethnicities unless they tend to have
very smooth, regular features. Since I was brought up in Western Europe, and
still have enough English traits to identify with what the English people on the
list
having been saying in regard to this thread, I wonder if this is something I've
developed since I moved to this side of the world.
Claire

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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:26:44 +0000
Status: RO

Lalah T Tillinghast  wrote
><<from you, and if you must tip it, tip it away from you? I've never
>understood "why" for that one.>>>
>
>        Yep, my mother stressed that too (American mother in American
>Florida).  And I don't understand it either.  I asked my mother why (I
>always asked why about everything) but she just said it was the proper
>thing to do.
>
>Lalah
>Never give up, Never surrender

I believe scooping soup towards you, and using the fork "tines up" are 
both bad because they look as if you're shovelling the food in  - it's 
not refined to look as if you're both starving and desperate to leave 
the table as fast as possible.

A habit you have to drop if you're ever going to eat noodles with 
chopsticks!

Jean

-- 
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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
To: "LIST H costume" 
Subject: Fw: [h-cost] ethnic posture / identification
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:35:21 -0000
Status: RO




> >,(for example, Asian/subcontinental - fine silky black hair,
> south-east Asian - thick straight black hair) so I find them difficult
> to tell apart, until I know them well enough to recognise features that
> in [genetically] European people I wouldn't pay so much attention to.
>
I can generally split Indian/Pakistani people into their regions by their
looks and their behaviour (at least I think that is how I do it I'm not that
sure really) But in my area there a many around so I'm more tuned into it.
>From speaking to friends from Asian communities I've heard them say we
(European genetically) look the same. Leicester (the city not county) white
people all look the same to me & I can't tell most 50-60 year olds from one
another, sounds weird but there is a certain stamp to them (Gross
generlisation obviouly some do differ !!!)

 Mel
>
> This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
> it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
> the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
> this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
> Company, unless specifically stated.
>
>



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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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>I believe scooping soup towards you,

The reason for this is in order not to spill soup down yourself, scooping
away lessens the chances greatly ! One cannot look refined with soup stains
down ones attire !

> and using the fork "tines up" are
both bad because they look as if you're shovelling the food in  - it's
not refined to look as if you're both starving and desperate to leave
the table as fast as possible.

You may as well use a spoon if you eat this way :)

>A habit you have to drop if you're ever going to eat noodles with
chopsticks!

I was taught the further from the food one holds ones chopsticks the better
class you are

Mel





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Company, unless specifically stated.



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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Antique tiara on ebay
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:43:13 -0800
Status: RO

Well, howzabout we take up a collection and then we work out custody 
terms, for instance, the tiara gets to live with one person each 
month??? For that amount of money, I figure we'd need .... how many people?


Theresa Eacker

Gwyn Carnegie wrote:

> I've been looking at tiara's, their history and how the styles change 
> from say the 1850's to 1920's and then I found this:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=982792438&tc=photo 
> 
> 
> It was too gorgeous, I had to share. And if anyone here buys it, I'll be 
> forever jealous >; )
> 
> Gwyn Carnegie
> University of California at Davis
> 
> 


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:54:00 -0800
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At 11:03 AM +0100 11/26/02, Cassandra Greer wrote:

>Our personal space works like a proximity sensor. When people (esp unknowns)
>get inside that space this is when our subconscious goes on alert to be
>prepared to defend the body. This space is culturally defined and
>programmed. - THIS IS A GENERALITY OF COURSE! and there are many variables,
>like how long a space encroacher is in your space - walking down the
>sidewalk, this person is only there for a second - but he is registered and
>the body is still on alert but probably not to the discomfort level. Friends
>and family are more likely (but not always) allowed inside that space,
>because of a stronger relationship of trust.

You can see the cultural differences working out as if they were laws 
of physics in how people naturally distribute themselves when actual 
physical space isn't an issue.  For example, if you have a long, 
continuous bench and only a small number of people sitting on it, 
what is the minimum space between individuals?  (Sometimes you can 
see regular repeats of an exact distance down a whole line of sitters 
who each thought they were sitting randomly.)  If you are the first 
person to sit down in a lightly-attended movie theater, how closely 
can the next person sit to you without you considering it creepy?

And the social dynamics aren't simply a matter of feeling comfortable 
or uncomfortable on an abstract social level -- people who _do_ 
intend to impose on you physically will often use social distance as 
a "test" to see what your reactions are and how much trouble you're 
likely to cause if they push further (and touching is used as a 
similar test).

But getting back to costume-related issues -- I find that the 
difference I tend to notice most between Americans and Europeans is 
hairstyle.  There are some really subtle overall differences in style 
and cut (for both men and women) that -- while far from absolute -- 
are regularly reliable.  On the other hand, working as I do at a 
major university with an extremely international student body, and 
situated in a major coastal center of immigration, my notions of what 
a "typical American look" would be are not exactly coherent.  This 
may explain why I _don't_ have the experience of looking at 
photographs of modern people in historic costume and being able to 
guess where they're from.  When I look at pictures of medievally 
costumed people from Great Britain or Australia, for example, they 
look more or less indistinguishable on a group level from the 
medievally costumed Americans I'm familiar with.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Christina L Biles" 


> And I know there's more, but it's all subconscious.
> So, in England, obviously the first three are NOT true.  Are the rest
> considered good manners?

There is a at least one more - when finishing one's meal, there seems to be
a different 'signal' that one is actually finished, rather than pausing for
a moment.

In England/Aust. one puts the knife and fork together and parallel in the
centre of the plate. If not finished, the knife and fork are parallel on the
edge of the plate. My Ohioan SIL (BIL's wife) says that they put their
knives and forks in a diagonal cross if finished. This is considered
impolite indeed in English table manners. Is the crossing of knife and fork
the same throughout the US?

We were all absolutely stunned when, upon serving a slab 'o' meat for dinner
upon her arrival in Australia, she proceeded to cut the entire thing up with
her knife and fork and then eat it with her fork only (in right hand). In
Aus, that's only done for young children or the infirm. My husband's family
are very proper when it comes to English/Australian table manners, as his
Grandmother used to be a servant, and then a caterer. It took them a while
to come to terms with what is considered normal in the US.

Historical Note: These entirely different ways of eating using a knife and
fork has me coming to the conclusion that eating with both of these as a
matter of course with all classes of people may have come on after the start
of the US colonies, but before the start of the Australian colonies, as the
US one seems so different, but the Aust. one is practically identical. Maybe
it might have something to do with the early US population being made up of
more mainland Europeans than the Australian mix. Anyone have any ideas?

Glenda

Very glad that both have 'see food' eating as impolite. I have one son who I
have to tell 'close your mouth when you're eating' many, many times a week.



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Subject: Re: Fw: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body typeperiods)
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:24:24 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- Melanie Wilson  wrote: > 

> bigger jaws their tooth alighnment would be very good. Their mouths probaly
> stank from peridontal diese & had plenty of plaque built up :)

The plaque is not likely, there are extensive references in periods with
written-down literacy of scraping one's teeth. Now what does the hygenist do?
Bingo, scraping one's teeth. certainly in 17th c literacy it is opften referred
to properly cleaning one's teeth means scraping them every day. I'd say plaque
is less likely than nowadays even.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:30:10 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- mabse@attbi.com wrote: > sorry you took it that way, I really was amused
by your comment and not at
> all 
> offended. At the very least, it was nicely original. I just always wanted to
> be 
> a barbie doll.  I like that whole waist thing. I always wanted one of those
> and 
> even when I was extremely thin I never had one. 

Oh, okay, sorry for taking it the wrong way :-(

I always loved my Barbies, they had all historical type costumes made by my own
widdle fingers. What I did with the ken dolls and action men shall remain
buried in silence here. hehehehehe.

Nicole

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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic & historical eating
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 --- marcus findlay-arthur  wrote: > Nicole,
> You should try eating curries daintily with the right hand only and 
> keeping both your garb and area around your mouth clean - especially the 
> soupy sauces! And the incentive is there - you NEVER get  the Tumeric 
> stains out of your clothing not to mention your fingers!!!

No way! *laughs* and the 'daintily' was a joke.

Nicole -  chips/fries finger-eater whenever possible coz she got into REAL bad
trouble one day doing that in 'front of others' *shock horror* when being 4
years old. 

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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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I did a few searches. While I haven't turned up any information in addition 
what has been remarked on, I did find a neat little site that had images 
from about a centuries worth of tiaras and royal jewels at 
http://royal-jewels.tripod.com/ . While certainly not comprehensive, it's 
an enjoyable and informative surf >; )

I found the head placement changes through the decades fascinating. Also, 
they show a few examples of the larger coronets with their composite parts 
either in or out, what the composite parts look like, and how some of them 
break down into necklaces, etc - nice for people who don't own the Tiara book.

At 01:43 PM 11/26/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Well, howzabout we take up a collection and then we work out custody 
>terms, for instance, the tiara gets to live with one person each month??? 
>For that amount of money, I figure we'd need .... how many people?
>
>Theresa Eacker
>
>Gwyn Carnegie wrote:
>
>>I've been looking at tiara's, their history and how the styles change 
>>from say the 1850's to 1920's and then I found this:
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=982792438&tc=photo 
>>
>>It was too gorgeous, I had to share. And if anyone here buys it, I'll be 
>>forever jealous >; )



Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis


--=====================_20721750==_.ALT
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I did a few searches. While I haven't turned up any information in
addition what has been remarked on, I did find a neat little site that
had images from about a centuries worth of tiaras and royal jewels at
http://royal-jewels.tripod.com/
. While certainly not comprehensive, it's an enjoyable and informative surf >; )


I found the head placement changes through the decades fascinating. Also, they show a few examples of the larger coronets with their composite parts either in or out, what the composite parts look like, and how some of them break down into necklaces, etc - nice for people who don't own the Tiara book.


At 01:43 PM 11/26/2002 -0800, you wrote:


Well, howzabout we take up a collection and then we work out custody terms, for instance, the tiara gets to live with one person each month??? For that amount of money, I figure we'd need .... how many people?


Theresa Eacker


Gwyn Carnegie wrote:



I've been looking at tiara's, their history and how the styles change from say the 1850's to 1920's and then I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=982792438&tc=photo <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=982792438&tc=photo>

It was too gorgeous, I had to share. And if anyone here buys it, I'll be forever jealous >; )





Gwyn Carnegie

University of California at Davis 




--=====================_20721750==_.ALT--

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Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type periods)
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:03:07 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Robin Netherton  wrote: > 

> It may be a mistake to assume that bad teeth were the historical norm.

I did NOT say that I assumed that 'bad' teeth were the norm. I just said that
screaming white tombstone teeth are not historical, and while there may have
been people looking exactly like that, it would have been much rarer than what
is seen nowadays with the help of modern orthodontics. I read a lot about teeth
and teeth related illnesses in the 17th century (had a fascination with it for
a while) and the number of people mention ing tooth ache, decay, rot, loss is
amazing. It was always a horrified fascination of ine.. the pain, my goodness,
just think of the pain! Take the Duchess de Bourgogne for example, it was
written about her in a letter, I think it was by Lieselotte, that she was
extremely pretty, but even at the age of 17 (!) it was a real shame that she
should not smile or laugh because her rteeth were so terrible. It is said a bit
later when she has married Louis XIV's son, that her teeth were so badly
decaying (and that was only in her early 20s) that she was in constant bad
pain. *shudder* Poor girl. It's an extreme example, I know, but one of many
less extreme ones.

I am also mightily fascinated by 'bones in archaeology' and the number of
deformed jaw bones due to teeth that had rotten and infected and then the
infection eating through the bone is actually quite striking (so I thought in
my morbid fascination)

> Some people really do have screaming white teeth. 

How many percent? (and goodness do I envy them)

Teeth color has as much
> to do with genetics and the nutrients that you consumed while the teeth
> were forming than it does with what you do to them afterward.

It has actually more to do with it. Lays the foundation.

 Yes, you can
> have them bleached, but it's certainly not what all Americans do. Please

I never said that _all_ Americans did that - certainly not, I have read far too
much about poverty in America and my friends have told me far too much of the
problems of the health system i.e. one has to pay for what is being done.

> don't judge the rest of us based on movie stars. I would expect that even
> non-American movie stars have their teeth worked on.

Neither did I do this judging as described above, and yes I agree, filmstars
tend to do the same thing, regardless of nationality but it does tend to be
more American stars than European ones. The worst though is plastic boobage!
YUCK! The way they stick out when the women lie down, how unnatural is that. It
looks so weird in corsets, because they don't squash properly. I saw some very
strange looking pictures, you could just see that the cleavage consisted of
silicone, something just didn't look right. No idea what nationality that was,
doesn't matter. Same with most cosmetic-surgery noses too, it just looks
obvious often, so cute and weird, and I'm not even talking about michael -
scalpel-freak - jackson. Poor man.

Nicole

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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I'd love two of the catalogues, so I'll gladly go with whatever you set
up, although you'd have to explain PayPal to me!
--sue, drooling....

Cassandra Greer wrote:
> 
> Hi All!
> 
> For those of you who are interested in getting the catalog, it seems after
> talking to the curator that the 'quickest' and probably cheapest way to get
> catalogs anywhere out of Germany is for me to do it for you.
> 
> I can do one of two things, the third thing needs help from someone else:

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Photo now at www.myphotos.org.uk under Anglo Saxon folder

You can see peridontal disease in the one marked peridontal, Godiva with her
lack of teeth and Sancho with his absess, he also has really bad plaque
build up & he was only a young man 18-20 est

Mel

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Subject: [h-cost] EBay Italian dress Florentine 1525-1532
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Hi,

I am selling one of the dresses I made.
http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/Italiandress1525.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1901111301

Greetings,
        Deredere


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From: Sue Clemenger 
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:40:38 -0700
Status: RO

AFAIK, fabric weight is "by the square yard." I don't know if it's
different in metric countries.
So, a 3.5 oz. linen would be a linen fabric that would weigh 3.5 oz. if
you weighed a 3'x3' piece of it.
Either one would probably count as a "handkerchief weight," although the
quality might be different--thread could be finer or thicker, thread
count could be more or less.  That sort of thing.
--Sue, who grew up in NW rural Montana, with parents who did *not* do
the drop-in thing, and neighbors that *did* , and who was actually
claustrophobic the first time she went to a Big City (Seattle)

Cascio Michael wrote:
> 
> I'll chime in on the personal space thread as I am a
> rural American and have been most of my life.



>    I do suspect how much space you're comfortable with
> has alot to do with how you grew up.  My grandmother's
> sisters all slept in one room, all 5, until they each
> married so they find being alone very uncomfortable.
>    Linen question....what do they mean when they talk
> about 3.5 oz linen or 2.5 oz linen and which one is
> handkerchief linen?
>                              Cassandra
>
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I actually seem to have a historical "double," which has been rather 
amusing at times, and I know at least one other person who does too. 
(He's a dead ringer for the Elizabethan portrait of Sir Henry Unton.)

Mine came to light when someone who knows me happened to open a copy 
of Diana Scarisbrick's _Ancestral Jewels_ to the portrait of Duchess 
Elizabeth, wife of the ninth Duke of Bedford, who was one of Queen 
Victoria's bridesmaids (p.127, if anyone has the book). I'm not sure 
I can see that much of a resemblance myself, but I will sometimes 
show it to someone who hasn't seen it before and ask for their 
reaction (not telling them why, of course). About 2/3 of the time, 
their first thought is, "Who is this, your great-grandmother or 
something?" (No, no relation as far as I know.) Apparently it's quite 
striking.

Of course, now that I've revealed this, I can't pull this on anyone 
who reads this list now.....
-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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At 6:27 PM -0500 11/25/02, Claire wrote:
>  > PS that picture of the Wife of Bath looks to me like she is 
>wearing her cloak
>  > wrapped around her legs and waist.

Actually, if she's on horseback she might be wearing a large cloth 
bag over her feet and skirts, coming up partway or all the way to the 
waist. This is called a "safeguard" and I'm told it was a common 
accessory for horseback-riding  ladies -- at least in 16th-century 
England. It looks really odd and bunchy in pictures, especially on 
ladies who are riding astride, but I suppose it was necessary if you 
had to combine muddy roads with garments that you cared about not 
getting mud all over.

Personally, it would probably drive me bats in sixty seconds -- I 
_hate_ having my feet tangled in anything.
-- 
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O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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>In England/Aust. one puts the knife and fork together and parallel in the
centre of the plate
In England the cutting edge of the knife should point inwards towards the
fork

Mel

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Subject: Re: Fw: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body typeperiods)
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:01:41 -0000
Status: RO

>The plaque is not likely, there are extensive references in periods with

Well I've seen plenty of plaque on skellys so if they scrapped it didn't
work to well :)

I've also seen the artefactual evidence to suggest they did but the plaque
if their plain as the nose on ones face !! Lots of it and calcified. Whilst
I've not seen skellies from all periods it is pretty well documented in
paleopahological litrature for many many periods

>I'd say plaque
is less likely than nowadays even.

Certainly in AS Norfolk this is not born out by the evidence, I am
fasignated by teeth & I'll try & put some pics I have up


Mel


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From: Robin Netherton 
To: Historic Costume List 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:

> I looked at these pictures, and have been following this thread with
> much interest.  But I have to ask; how can you *tell* the
> tippets/pendant sleeves are fur, or lined with fur?  I certainly never
> got that impression from the pictures of the period I've looked at
> (including the ones you provided the URLs to).  The logic does make
> sense, though.

It helps to look at these in the context of fur use in garments in this
period. Documentary sources provide ample evidence for fur linings,
particularly of upper-class garments. Bear in mind that the fur was
typically trimmed close, not shaggy like most fur or fake fur today. You
often see fur decoration in places where the lining is brought over an
edge and continued as a border -- e.g. hems, collars, and sleeve edges.
Think especially of all those white borders at the bottoms of dresses --
if that were fabric, it would be mucked up in a single wearing, but fur is
very practical, as it takes heavy wear and brushes clean.

Artwork backs up what we know from documents, particularly in the
placement of fur. In many examples of artwork, the fur is really pretty
clear -- though perhaps not in online images, which lose a lot of detail.
However, the method of presentation of fur varies by artistic school and
style, and you need to know how to recognize it. In some periods, artists
typically used certain standard patterns to indicate "fur," such as
geometric piecing patterns or ermine spots; these are similar to the
patterns that designate "fur" in heraldry. (I have seen people mistake
these patterns for embroidery or other texturing, not being familiar with
the painter's "rules" for fur depiction.) Over time, you're more likely to
get reasonably good renderings of the fur texture in a more realistic
fashion, showing its hairy surface or fluffy edges. The Limbourg brothers
were good at this; get a good reproduction (not a scan!) of the Tres
Riches Heures for some examples, including some fur tippets in the April
calendar page. (That happens to be the first image in which I noticed that
tippets were fur, as the rendering is undeniable. I thought at first that
was odd, having never heard anything but the "fabric" explanation before.
That was more than 20 years ago. But once I had my eyes open, I learned
how to look for fur, and found it far more common than I'd realized; I
just hadn't been able to see it before.)

Other artists were not so good at renderings. An edging may simply be a
flat white area, with no clues to guide your eye. This is also the problem
you run into on sculptures, brasses, and other media that are essentially
"line drawings" without color or texture. But when you correlate these
images to images of equivalent fashions in other media in which the fur
usage is clear, you find that the placement and treatment of the furred
areas is pretty consistent, making it clear that a flat white area in a
particular artist's work is meant to be fur.

What's important to recognize, then, is that in the cases in which we *do*
have a clue, it's almost invariably (in my experience) fur. If something
other than fur were used routinely, you'd think we'd see many more
variants in the artwork that definitively show an alternative material. I
can think of maybe a couple of examples of pendant sleeve linings (though
not tippets) that have a design consistent with brocaded fabric as shown
elsewhere in the same artist's work. That may indicate the use of a fabric
for sleeve linings on occasion. But these are a real exception. The vast
majority of pendant sleeve linings are either clearly fur or something
ambiguous whose depiction is consistent with fur.

Developing an eye for this (and other elements of medieval artwork, like
perspective and gesture, that differ from the art we're used to today) is
rather like reading a code; you need to learn a new visual language. It
helps to be able to look at the actual artwork when possible, or very very
good reproductions, and also to see a broad range of examples from a given
place and time so you can establish a mental understanding of the norm and
the degree of acceptable variation.

I think many of the misconceptions about tippets arose because 19th
century costume scholars had very few materials to work with. Many of them
did not have the opportunity to examine much medieval artwork directly,
and there was no photoreproduction or color printing. Some authors worked
only from published engravings and line drawings in earlier books. So they
tended to see only certain images, and to see them in isolation and in
altered form. If your only exposure to tippets is through a handful of
brass rubbings, a few well-known sculptures, and some line drawings based
on manuscript illuminations -- all monochrome media -- those flat white
areas could be just about anything. No wonder they talked about bands of
"white linen" and "white silk."

> I have seen pictures showing them on what looks like a sleeve where
> the top and bottom are of the same color, but it's possible (quite
> likely, in fact)  that the images I'm thinking of were incorrectly
> colored re-drawings...

...particularly if the person doing the coloring was operating under the
assumption of a bound band over a long sleeve. The colorist may have had
little understanding of the fashion. I had a rude shock when I compared
two copies of a seminal costume book (Bonnard) from the early 1800s. The
plates, copied from medieval art, were hand-colored for the printed
editions ... and the colors varied quite capriciously from one copy to the
other, apparently reflecting the whim of the colorist, not any reflection
of the original colors of the artwork being copied. This book, as it
happens, was used as the basis of research by quite a few later costume
researchers.

> I have one other problem with the "tippets as fur lined pendant
> sleeves"  theory.  The pictures of tippets/pendant sleeves I've seen
> simply don't appear to hang as though they were made out of something
> as heavy as fur (the short pendants in the Christine de Pisan
> miniature are an exception to this rule, but they're also much shorter
> than most tippets).  I would greatly appreciate hearing your thoughts
> on this point.

Two words: Trimmed fur. Since they were lining entire garments in it, we
can be sure it was clipped pretty close.

--Robin


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> But far fewer teeth were lost in the first place
> than were, say, a century ago. (I believe this research was based on grave
> finds; I'm not sure. I found it referenced in the dental literature when I
> was working on a non-costume-related project, so I don't know where any
> archaeological evidence might lie -- at least several generations of
> citations back from the document I had.)
> There were also a variety of teeth-cleaning methods in use historically,
> depending on your class and culture. I was most amused at a scene in
> Shakespeare in Love, when Gwyneth Paltrow is dressing, and her nurse hands
> her some small instrument and demands she clean her teeth. I'm not sure
> what the instrument was, but it looked like the equivalent of the
> frayed-end stick used commonly by many more "primitive" cultures.
>

Hi, All. Regarding the teeth docs, there is a great chapter in the recently
released "Blood Red Roses" book on the archaeological find of grave pits for
the bodies of soldiers killed at the Battle of Towton (War of Roses, England
15th Cent.) There is a whole chapter on dental condition of the bodies,
related to both dental care and injuries. Regarding the "Shakespeare" movie, I
don't think they were using brushy sticks, but there is ample evidence for
mouthwashes (to tighten gums around loose teeth), powders (mild abrasives
wiped on with cloths or fingers) and toothpicks. Costume content: there are
some clothing-related materials from the Towton battlefield that shed some
light on fashions of the period to include those little hook-like clothing
fasteners that are sewn on to who-knows-what. One person who had illustrated a
book on the Netherlands in the 16th Cent. had conjectured that they were for
holding down the flappy pieces on the back of Flemish women's upper garments.
This may have been a use, but the battle in question happened in England in
1461 in the winter, in a snowstorm between two forces of professional
soldiers. Since they weren't found in situ on bodies, they could have been a
number of things... cloak hooks, hooks for doublets and hose, hooks to keep
chaperon tails attached around the head (?) or even shoe furniture(?). (Blood
Red Roses; the Archaeology of a Mass Grave from the Battle of Towton 1461 ed.
by Veronica Fiorato, Anthea Boylston and Christopher Knusel 2000 Oxbow Books
ISBN 1-84217-025-2 Chapter 7; Dental Health and Disease, and fig. 14.5a, color
section)  Cheers, Mike T.

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I shall head this with teeth comments;) My personal feeling is that way too
much orthodontic work is done on teeth. For example I'd have been in braces
soon as it was deemed safe (which is a bit of an arbitrary term anyway...)
for a very very minor problem. I have vampire teeth. Very large incisors
that are also set out a little way from the rest of the teeth. To 'correct'
this I'd need 4 teeth removed even though my lower set are absolutely fine.
And that's just not worth it for me. They aren't glaring they don't
interfere with anything.

No one notices my teeth either until I point it out to them. Or are obsessed
with straight teeth;)

I dunno what era my teeth would look right in.... but  horror film is
probably the most ideal spot;)

My face is very much like those seen in German ren art, round cheeks little
mouth pointy nose and round slightly harsh eyes. I also do very well for
Victorian.. but then my face is "one of those faces" as I am constantly
reminding me of someone.. and when I come off stage to meet people most
people ask.. who were you? Even when I was in a main role;) Chameleon I am;)
Most people don't realise that I am the only 'model' on my costume site.
Except for two photos which I am in also with a few others.

But I do have issues with my body. It simply does not conform to any style
except the late middle ages small breasted large belly and hips.. but not
actually being 'Rubenesque'. Still I was most thrilled when I found a few
German Ren portraits where the women were *not* full bosomed, but were still
in the same style of dress. Looks like either they had the same body type as
me and the artist did not make them conform or there was some kind of
influence from the countries where the conical shape was preferred.

> >         Don't consider this a flame, just remember that we Americans
> > are about as diverse a bunch as the whole rest of the world put
> > together.

Just wanted to comment here that that's not necessarily strictly true. The
world outside the US is more than just the UK;)- and then again the UK is
pretty diverse. I watched Phantom one night there and was sitting next to a
father and son from what sounded like Norfolk and their attitude to watching
the show was very different from the people on the other side.. which was
different from the tourists from various places..... Actually they were a
breath of fresh air. While it was clear this was a very different experience
for them they didn't make a nuisance of themselves asking what was going on
all the time and they also really enjoyed the show. Not something I expected
from two men coming to see a West End production:) I gave them a brief
synopsis as only someone who is truly obsessed with the show can do;)

NZ is extremely culturally diverse mostly because we do not have such
stringent immigration policies than the US (i.e. a US citizen can easily
move here for work but I cannot work in America unless I fight for a Green
Card). And our ethnic make up is very diverse. We just happen to small
populace wise. Doesn't mean though we are insular and of small diversity.
Stick someone from Southland with a bloke from Remuera in Auckland and just
see how well they get on... though lot of that will be parochialism;)

We do actually have phones and running water btw. Every time someone here
goes to the States for holiday or as a Camp Councillor they get asked those
types of questions. If the person even knows that such a country exists.

Mind you I'm sure there are people here with ideas about the US that are
only formed from what they see on tv. I know as a kid America was seen a bit
as the Promised Land where everything was just so cool (if you ever read
Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman you'll see the same thoughts
expressed). That definitely was formed from the TV programmes imported here.
And it took a very very long time for us to accept our own culture on TV.

Shortland Street is not the epitome of high art (it's a nightly soap) but it
was indeed what broke that discrimination against our own culture. Even
hearing our own accents was difficult we were so used to the Standard
American accent. Now that is really pretty bad isn't it where your own
accent is something foreign?

So if there is any backlash against America from here you might just see
why. Our own culture was so dominated by American that we very nearly could
have lost our own identity.

Unfortunately it is misdirected to a large degree, it's more to do with
greedy people making money from the ignorance of others. And there is a
broad range of attitudes from very anti to very pro to those amused by the
fuss and those just wanting everyone to get over it;)

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume


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On Tuesday 26 November 2002 02:36 pm, Robin Netherton wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Roscelin wrote:
[text cut here]

> > I believe I know what kind of sleeve you describe here, but can you
> > suggest a picture I can take a look at?
>
> Here's a pendant sleeve:
>
> http://philae.sas.upenn.edu/French/15.jpg
>
> These are squared off and rather wide. You can barely see how the blue
> fabric would extend down the back (outer) surface, and the fur lining
> shows on the front (inner) surface, which faces us.
>
> Here's another:
>
> http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/bnf/images/bnf030.jpg
>
> Christine de Pisan is shown twice in a blue dress with rather short
> pendant sleeves, fur-lined. This time the fabric side is facing us, so you
> can just barely see the fur peeking out around the edges.

I looked at these pictures, and have been following this thread with much 
interest.  But I have to ask; how can you *tell* the tippets/pendant sleeves 
are fur, or lined with fur?  I certainly never got that impression from the 
pictures of the period I've looked at (including the ones you provided the 
URLs to).  The logic does make sense, though.


[text cut here]


> Fur is a sign of class and wealth. As far as I can tell, tippets only
> appear on upper-class versions of the fitted overdress.

Very true, which is a major reason why I find your logic persuasive.

> Fitted
> underdresses (by which I mean not underwear, but the basic main garment
> worn over the chemise), in general, appear on a much broader range
> (including middle class, artisans, etc. but probably not peasants, despite
> the single, isolated romanticized example of the reapers in the Tres
> Riches Heures). However, tippets would appear only on a fitted *overdress*
> by definition because it's short-sleeved. 


I have seen pictures showing them on what looks like a sleeve where the top 
and bottom are of the same color, but it's possible (quite likely, in fact) 
that the images I'm thinking of were incorrectly colored re-drawings...

I have one other problem with the "tippets as fur lined pendant sleeves" 
theory.  The pictures of tippets/pendant sleeves I've seen  simply don't 
appear to hang as though they were made out of something as heavy as fur (the 
short pendants in the Christine de Pisan miniature are an exception to this 
rule, but they're also much shorter than most tippets).  I would greatly 
appreciate hearing your thoughts on this point.



-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Hi,
For those that missed it.  The instructions for the pattern upsizing are online at my site.
http://www.seams-to-be.com/instructions/grade.htm
-- 
Linda Thompson

Visit www.seams-to-be.com
where Attitude is Everything

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On Tuesday 26 November 2002 11:40 am, jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote:
> Christina L Biles  wrote :
[text cut here]

> As I understand your description, you'd cut off a bite-size bit of food,
> then put the knife down, transfer the fork (presumably still in the chunk
> of food) to your right hand, and then eat it?

Not quite.  This is how I was taught to eat.

You cut a bite or two of food (leaving same on the plate, not on the fork), 
put your knife down, shift the fork, use the fork to skewer a bite, and then 
eat it.

> Isn't that rather slow?

Yes, but I think that slowing down the eating process is part of the point.  
It's also considered rude to eat too quickly (though this is a rule that 
usually gets honored in the breach).



-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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On Tuesday 26 November 2002 09:33 am, Robin Netherton wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote:
> > I do have to say though that I go with the 'tombstone' remark: I hate
> > those fake brilliant white teeth, just look at Halle Berry in the new
> > James Bond film, it loks ridiculous and SO fake. I cannot imagine
> > anyone with teeth like that looking even remotely convincing in period
> > costume - any period other than Sci Fi.

I do note that, in Heian Japan, brilliant white (or even ivory) teeth were 
considered ugly (there was, I believe, some kind of semi-superstitous 
association with demons lurking in there, too).  Therefore, fashionable women 
stained their teeth black with a mixture containing iron (don't know the 
exact contents or how it was made).

So Nicole's revulsion is, clearly, not unique...

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, N Kipar 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] ethnic posture / identification
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:39:49 -0500
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On Tuesday 26 November 2002 05:32 am, N Kipar wrote:
>  --- Jean Waddie  wrote: >
>
> > I was wondering whether people from communities which, to my eyes, seem
> > all to have the same type of hair, identify by finer differences in hair
> > colour and type, or is the first thing you distinguish a different
> > feature which has more variety?
> >
> > I hope this question makes sense to you.
>
> Yes Jean, it does, and I wonder if other genetic communities (can't find a
> better term) have different types of identifiers. I frankly admit I have
> problems telling people from China apart, or from Japan, for example, they
> 'all look the same' which is of course not true,but my identifies are the
> same that Jean's are: hair colour and eye colour. I can tell you what
> colour hair anyone had I met, and that's why it's so difficult to me to
> recognise someone who was wearing a wig or a covering hat. Being Caucasian
> and living in Western Europe means that I am probably programmed to
> identify people by those identifiers, but that wouldn't work in, say,
> China, now would it?
> I wonder what a hinese or Japanese makes of us, do we all 'look the same'
> too?

Probably.  There have been studies suggesting that people have difficulty 
distinguishing individuals of races other than their own--no matter what race 
they are.  The first essay on this page alludes to them:

http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/society_culture/exclusion_principle.htm

--
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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        On the subject of teeth I was researching Queen Mary and read
that by the time she was twenty four she was almost toothless.  No wonder
they all had their portraits painted with their mouths shut.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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> << from you, and if you must tip it, tip it away from you? I've never
> understood "why" for that one.>>>

I know! I know!  When you tilt the spoon away from you, you scrape it
gently on the far rim of the bowl to clear the bottom of the spoon. Both
are done in one smooth motion.  Then the soup has the whole diameter of
the bowl to get in that one last drip, rather than having that happen in
your lap.

also a theory: the scoop motion is slightly awkward, which may mean that
filling your spoon this way is less likely to overfill it.

Emma

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N Kipar wrote:

> 
> Nicole - not pretty, not thin, and no white teeth. *grins*
> 
 Nicole shame on you.  You may not be rail thin but you are stunning in
the bluesilk gown.  Its a pity we can't see ourselves as other people
do.  I'll add this- I am of german and swedish descent, I was not
offended by anything you said.  


Di
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type
 periods)
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote:

>  --- Robin Netherton  wrote: > 
> 
> > It may be a mistake to assume that bad teeth were the historical norm.
> 
> I did NOT say that I assumed that 'bad' teeth were the norm.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you did specifically. Several people on
the thread had already made comments to that effect, and no one had
questioned it. I just picked up your post as the latest in the thread to
respond to, as you made some additional points I wanted to pursue as well,
and I batched all my comments in one post.

--Robin


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Hmm. I was born nd raised in suburban Ohio in the 70s, and I was taught that 
the "proper" way to deal with meat was to cut a smaller piece off of then 
piece on your plate, cut that smaller piece into bite-size pieces, then eat 
all of those pieces (one by one, of course), before going back to the large 
chunk and cutting off another, smaller section. I was taught it's slightly 
"gauche"(? tacky) to cut the big chunk up all at once. I was also taught 
that was only "done" for the young and infirm - my husband had to do it for 
me when I had tendonitis in my dominant hand - I ate a lot of finger food 
during that period. :)

As for being done - I was taught that this was signaled by placing your used 
silverware on the plate, the napkin on the table by the plate, and sitting 
back slightly from the table (with hands in lap). This was the signal it was 
acceptable for the plate to be removed from the table.

Mary/katerine
who knows what she'll be paying attention to this Thursday! (It's 
Thanksgiving here in the States)


>We were all absolutely stunned when, upon serving a slab 'o' meat for 
>dinner
>upon her arrival in Australia, she proceeded to cut the entire thing up 
>with
>her knife and fork and then eat it with her fork only (in right hand). In
>Aus, that's only done for young children or the infirm. My husband's family
>are very proper when it comes to English/Australian table manners, as his
>Grandmother used to be a servant, and then a caterer. It took them a while
>to come to terms with what is considered normal in the US.
>
>Historical Note: These entirely different ways of eating using a knife and
>fork has me coming to the conclusion that eating with both of these as a
>matter of course with all classes of people may have come on after the 
>start
>of the US colonies, but before the start of the Australian colonies, as the
>US one seems so different, but the Aust. one is practically identical. 
>Maybe
>it might have something to do with the early US population being made up of
>more mainland Europeans than the Australian mix. Anyone have any ideas?
>
>Glenda
>
>Very glad that both have 'see food' eating as impolite. I have one son who 
>I
>have to tell 'close your mouth when you're eating' many, many times a week.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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Gwyn Carnegie wrote:

> 
> I did a few searches. While I haven't turned up any information in 
> addition what has been remarked on, I did find a neat little site that 
> had images from about a centuries worth of tiaras and royal jewels at 
> http://royal-jewels.tripod.com/ . While certainly not comprehensive, 
> it's an enjoyable and informative surf >; )


Oh, this was fun. But, Tripod was fussing about bandwidth so I gotta go 
  back later. Thanks for such a great site!


> 
> I found the head placement changes through the decades fascinating. 
> Also, they show a few examples of the larger coronets with their 
> composite parts either in or out, what the composite parts look like, 
> and how some of them break down into necklaces, etc - nice for people 
> who don't own the Tiara book.


There's a second one now - Tiaras Past and Present- with even more 
luscious pretties to slobber over!!!

Theresa Eacker


 


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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tumeric over dye/ Ethnic & historical eating
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:19:15 -0800
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>>Turmeric stains are not colour-fast, so they fade rapidly, in my experience.
>
>Whats 'rapid' vs how many washes?

One or two washes, using the detergent I did.  But I found sun fading more 
of a problem.  That seemed to happen during the course of one day, as I 
recall.  Maybe because what I dyed was cotton or linen, not wool or 
silk.  But it was a beautiful bright yellow while it lasted.


Kayta

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1) Question:

>  I now eat
> differently, with fork in one hand and knife in the other, instead of
> the way my Grandmother taught me (which I save for ACW and other
> American re-enacting).

So let's ask that question in reverse, since I'm being
pushed into ACW reenactment. How did your
grandmother teach you to eat? Given a  knife and a
fork, I can't imagine any reasonable method that
*doesn't* have one in each hand.

Answer:

This way. Use your right hand for your fork. If you need to cut anything up,
put the fork in your left hand and cut with your right. Then put the knife
down, put the fork back in your right hand again, and eat.

I didn't say it was fast.
 
Gail Finke

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:39:28 +0000
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And then there are the people who were given antibiotics as a child and it 
greyed their teeth...I think it's amoxicillin? Yet another reason to use 
antibiotics with caution...

Mary/Katerine

>Some people really do have screaming white teeth. Teeth color has as much
>to do with genetics and the nutrients that you consumed while the teeth
>were forming than it does with what you do to them afterward. Yes, you can
>have them bleached, but it's certainly not what all Americans do. Please
>don't judge the rest of us based on movie stars. I would expect that even
>non-American movie stars have their teeth worked on.
>
>--Robin
>
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> >A habit you have to drop if you're ever going to eat noodles with
> chopsticks!
> 
> I was taught the further from the food one holds ones chopsticks the
> better
> class you are
> 
> Mel
> 

This discussion has been really interesting.  What my brother has told
me (he is Korean and wasn't adopted until he was 8) was that in his
village and family, children held the chopsticks close to the food, but
as you grew up, you held the chopsticks farther away.  (Kinda like girls
letting their skirts down in other eras?).  He found it VERY amusing
that my parents "ate like children" with chopsticks

Emily

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:41:44 -0600
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I have, in recent years, been able to do some cross-cultural re-enactor
anthropology. I have found that much to my amusement, there is an eerie
similarlity among re-enactors on both sides of the Atlantic. I can't
speak for other places, obviously, but having participated in both
medieval activities (Far Isles with Teddy), and Napoleonic (with Mel) I
found that if I stopped listening to the voices and just looked around I
could see the exact same 'types' involved as I am used to seeing in the
States. It was really quite amusing as I entertained myself finding
analogs to folks I am familiar with among the European groups. I wonder
what this says about the sort of person that is drawn into doing
re-enactments?  

Karen





On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:54:00 -0800 Heather Rose Jones 

> When I look at pictures of medievally 
> costumed people from Great Britain or Australia, for example, they 
> look more or less indistinguishable on a group level from the 
> medievally costumed Americans I'm familiar with.
> 
> Heather

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My Barbie had costumes made by me, and went on jungle adventures.....I
was such an odd child.

Of course I'm a fairly odd adult too...... 8-)

Karen



On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:30:10 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= > 
> I always loved my Barbies, they had all historical type costumes 
> made by my own
> widdle fingers. What I did with the ken dolls and action men shall 
> remain
> buried in silence here. hehehehehe.
> 
> Nicole
> 
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
> 
> __________________________________________________
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 periods)
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Mary Temple wrote:

> And then there are the people who were given antibiotics as a child and it 
> greyed their teeth...I think it's amoxicillin? Yet another reason to use 
> antibiotics with caution...

Tetracycline. It affects the tooth color if there are teeth forming. This
is pretty well known now, and doctors tend to be careful about it, IME.

--Robin

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:02:15 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- michaela  wrote: > 

> Just wanted to comment here that that's not necessarily strictly true. The
> world outside the US is more than just the UK;)- and then again the UK is
> pretty diverse. 

THANK YOU for saying this. :-) The world is BIG and a hellofa lot bigger than
the US.

> We do actually have phones and running water btw. Every time someone here
> goes to the States for holiday or as a Camp Councillor they get asked those
> types of questions. If the person even knows that such a country exists.

*laughs* Oh dear.... I. for one, will definitely when I have enough money
together go and see NZ, everyone who went couldn't stop going on in ecstasy
about the landscapes.

> So if there is any backlash against America from here you might just see
> why. Our own culture was so dominated by American that we very nearly could
> have lost our own identity.

While here, well... I find that the UK is, well, how can I say it politely,
'not very pro and looks down upon' a lot that stands for America. Note the last
bit: 'stands for' that does not mean necessarily the country or people
themselves, but the things that are disliked. Uh, do I make sense? nah. *L* I
suppose it's the same for every country, but I guess the bigger one is, the
more to pick at.

Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't have any history
- other than Native American - before, what, early 17th? That must be a bummer!

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:10:59 -0500
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> When I travel to another country, I do make an effort to have at least a
> few basic phrases of the language, at least enough to say "excuse me" when
> I bump into someone on the street. (In England, the term for this seems to
> be "Sorry," which gets me very strange looks here in the US.)

What are you supposed to say in the US? "Excuse me"? I usually say "Sorry".
I'm in Canada, but I'm French-speaking (in a bilingual city), so I might
have been using the wrong expression for years...

Does anyone know what the norm is in Montreal? ;-)
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures 
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:16:34 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- N Kipar  wrote: > 
> 
> Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't have any
> history
> - other than Native American - before, what, early 17th? That must be a
> bummer!

Uh, and I didn't mean to sound nasty, BTW, I just re-read that mail and figured
someone might feel it was meant like that. Wasn't.

BTW, I heard from someone or read somewhere - was it even on this list? -  that
the reason why Elizabethan portraits showed no smiles was mainly down to them
not wanting to show their (bad) teeth. Is there any truth in that?

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures 
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote:

> Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't have
> any history - other than Native American - before, what, early 17th?
> That must be a bummer!

On the contrary, we have plenty of history. I would guess that most
immigrant cultures here (starting with the colonial immigrants) consider
the history of their countries of origin as part of "their" history. (My
husband, a church history scholar, points out that Protestants don't count
the history of their religion as starting just from the Reformation; it
goes back to Christ. Same principle: When you split from the origin, that
doesn't mean you lose everything from before the split.)

We had a similar discussion once before about museum collections in the
U.S. -- why we have interest in collecting artifacts that are not
originally from American soil. There is less of a tendency in the U.S. as
seeing history as linked strictly to "places" as compared with "cultures"
-- which may spread beyond "places." So we have our regional/local museums
that focus on local artifacts, but our major museums typically have
collections that span a broad range of cultures, and include artifacts and
artwork that was produced elsewhere, both before and after the
colonization of the U.S.

I suppose I might "feel sorry for you lot" in places where only local
history and a single cultural line counts as "your" history. But I don't.
See how silly that sounds?

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 11:26:07 2002
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:25:29 -0500
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Personal space indeed varies a lot between people, and some people are just
not aware they are violating other people's space...

It probably happens in every culture that you're stuck with someone getting
just TOO close to you, forcing you to take one step back, then proceeding to
take one step towards you, making you take one step back... how annoying...

We had one person doing it in our group. When we were in a circle, talking,
it made the whole group move gradually all over the room as each person
readjusted to the new space available :-)
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:

> > When I travel to another country, I do make an effort to have at least a
> > few basic phrases of the language, at least enough to say "excuse me" when
> > I bump into someone on the street. (In England, the term for this seems to
> > be "Sorry," which gets me very strange looks here in the US.)
> 
> What are you supposed to say in the US? "Excuse me"? I usually say "Sorry".
> I'm in Canada, but I'm French-speaking (in a bilingual city), so I might
> have been using the wrong expression for years...

"Excuse me" is the standard.

> Does anyone know what the norm is in Montreal? ;-)

"Pardonnez-moi"? Or is there a term that crosses the language boundary?

I can't remember what I heard (and used) in Paris -- was it "excusez-moi"
or "pardonnez-moi"?

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 11:49:53 2002
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:49:31 -0500
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> > Does anyone know what the norm is in Montreal? ;-)
> "Pardonnez-moi"? Or is there a term that crosses the language boundary?

Oh THAT I can answer, since I'm a native French speaker :-)
"Excusez-moi" is what we use. There is some use of the term "Désolé", which
would be the equivalent of "Sorry", it won't get you strange looks but is
just heard less often. Using "Pardon" around here would get you singled out
as a foreigner. I do use "Désolée" once in a while, but it's usually used in
conversations or when apologizing for doing something wrong, not when
stepping on a foot or bumping into someone.

> I can't remember what I heard (and used) in Paris -- was it "excusez-moi"
> or "pardonnez-moi"?

In Paris, "Excusez-moi" doesn't get strange looks, it gets no reaction at
all! They use "Pardon", and if you don't use it, no one notices that you
ever said anything - took me a few days to understand that, and then a few
days to break the habit :-)
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 12:06:01 2002
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Tippets
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Robin,

I find your analysis on tippets persuasive, and you will find
considerable support in
 'Fur in dress', by Elizabeth Ewing,
Batsford, London, 1981.
(not only on what was actually worn but also on the apparently
wholesale
unwitting exclusion of fur in subsequent romanticised notions of what
was worn in
that period)

And, of course, Elspeth Veale's The English Fur Trade in the Later
Middle Ages.' Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1966, the magisterial
and indispensible starting point in any consideration of this subject.

The white fur was almost certainly the belly fur of the Russian
squirrel; very light in weight and unbelievably soft, as well as
unbelievably expensive, though the unseen inner part of the sleeve may
well have been a cheaper fur.

Forgive the brevity of this note; I have only one hand in use for a
few days.

best wishes
Stevie



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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:13:03 -0500
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The term I heard and used the most in Paris and Belgium (both Brussels
and the country) was just "pardon" or, strangely enough, "Scusi."
Rarely did I hear "moi" attached unless it was a more personalized
apology.  Here in Michigan though, I hear both "sorry" and excuse me" in
similar circumstances.

Emily


> 
> I can't remember what I heard (and used) in Paris -- was it
"excusez-moi"
> or "pardonnez-moi"?
> 
> --Robin
> 
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:51:44 -0600 (CST)
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote:

> ... 'Fur in dress', by Elizabeth Ewing, Batsford, London, 1981. (not
> only on what was actually worn but also on the apparently wholesale
> unwitting exclusion of fur in subsequent romanticised notions of what
> was worn in that period)
> 
> And, of course, Elspeth Veale's The English Fur Trade in the Later
> Middle Ages.' Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1966, the magisterial
> and indispensible starting point in any consideration of this subject.

These sound like great sources. Thanks. I'm surprised I hadn't found them
yet! But I haven't gone searching for sources specifically on fur.

> The white fur was almost certainly the belly fur of the Russian
> squirrel; very light in weight and unbelievably soft, as well as
> unbelievably expensive, though the unseen inner part of the sleeve may
> well have been a cheaper fur.

I have been musing on how to manage to get modern fur to be as lightweight
and close-clipped as must have been done in period. I'm a little short on
Russian squirrels. Anyone have an idea if rabbit fur would be flexible and
light enough? Has anyone tried trimming fur themselves?

> Forgive the brevity of this note; I have only one hand in use for a
> few days.

Ouch! Thanks for taking the time to post.

--Robin

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:45:08 -0600
Status: RO

Hi Albert,

Yes, in those photos, the puff is high on my shoulder. I have the
squarest shoulders on the planet! I despair of ever making an 1830's drop
shouldered dress as I fear I will look like a mutant instead of a
delicate beauty with lovely, sloping, 'antique' shoulders. After you see
the finished pics you will see that the weight of the sleeves attached to
the armscye draws the shoulders down a bit and puts them more properly at
the edge of my shoulder. 


Karen The Linebacker





On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:58:09 EST AlbertCat@aol.com writes:
> What a stunner this will be.
> 
> My only critisism conserns the shoulder. It looks too high on the 
> arm. In your research, the stuffed shoulder gobledegoo is almost....or 
> actually....on the upper arm. It appears to be at that "oh so
difficult' position 
> of being just where the shoulder becomes the arm. 
> 
> It seems to be a dilema not unlike the placement of poofs on the 
> 1830s bodices being done even as we speak. You two should consult each 
> other.
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> 
> 

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 12:49:11 2002
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:48:33 +0000
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> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote:
> 
> > Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't 
> have any history - other than Native American - before, what, early 
> 17th?
> > That must be a bummer!

:-) Even after the Europeans showed up, we ended up with plenty of
history, all sort of time-compressed, because the folks who showed up on
our shores brought their established cultures with them; they didn't need
to start from scratch, so to speak. I think that's the one thing many
Americans miss--we miss the sense of roots, and want to learn more about
the basis of various cultures before they got here.

Arlys, more than likely a descendent of emmigrants from the eastern
shores of the U.S.

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:00:55 +0000
Status: RO

There's an interesting section on toothpicks in DRESS ACCESSORIES 
1150-1450 by Geoff Egan and Frances Pritchard (Museum of London series:
3), Boydell Press, 2002, ISBN 0 85115 839 0, p. 377-380. Too long to
quote here, but the gist of it is that combination earscoops and
toothpicks were frequently made of metal, most often metal sheeting, with
an earscoop on one end of the handle and a toothpick on the other.
Drawings of the archaelogical finds are included.

Arlys


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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:48:14 +0000
Status: RO

Really been enjoying this discussion of personal space. One of the more
subtle issues of personal space is, of all things, cell phones. Yup, that
wonderful, useful fashion accessory that fits in your pocket.

I am beginning to hate them with a purple passion. Actually, I am
beginning to hate people who use them inconsiderately with a purple
passion. You know, the ones who talk as loudly on their cell as they do
one their phone at home? And then gripe because people are staring (or
glaring) at them and invading their so-called "privacy?"

Was at the Post Office the other day and some fellow was on his cell
phone giving out sensitive financial information to a client...and to
20-some other people who could not, for reasons of being in line for the
counter, get out of earshot. It prompted more than a few comments from
folks, let me tell you....

Erg. :/

Arlys

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:53:20 +0000
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Nichole writes:
> While here, well... I find that the UK is, well, how can I say it
politely,
> 'not very pro and looks down upon' a lot that stands for America. 
> Note the last bit: 'stands for' that does not mean necessarily the
country or 
> people themselves, but the things that are disliked. Uh, do I make
sense? 
> nah. *L* I suppose it's the same for every country, but I guess the
bigger one 
> is, the more to pick at.

Americans are politically and culturally pushy. I blame the former on
Teddy Roosevelt, who instituted the 'America needs to be the world's
policeman' policy; the latter is just cuz we're pushy. ;)

I remember watching one of the endurance races that took place in New
Zealand. What an extraordinarily beautiful country! :D

Arlys

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cultural contact and clothing
From: Marsha Hamilton 
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:54:32 -0500
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>> There are such creatures as "Ugly Americans." :(
> 
> Absolutely.  And many of us Americans consider those folk to be just as
> obnoxious as the rest of the world does.

When I traveled overseas, I was horrified when some fellow American would do
embarrassing things, like dress inappropriately to visit a holy site.  I'd
talk to offended and/or stunned local people and apologize for the
"uninformed tourist" and/or Americans who show worst traits while traveling.
I was assured by gracious people on several continents that they had seen as
bad from tourists from other countries, so we'd often laugh about it.

There's no getting around the US is a major power and corporations
relentlessly export low level "McCulture" for profit, to the detriment of
international and regional US culture.  I'm offended that many people have
forgotten about being "ambassadors" while traveling, a concept hammered into
me by relatives who believed a decent reputation reflected honorably on
one's family and country.

To non-US list members...if you've been offended by Americans saying
ignorant things about clothing, customs, history, plumbing, etc., please try
to forgive it.  The US educational system doesn't prepare Americans well for
travel, geography, world history...  I'm frustrated with my child's low
quality school textbooks.  [Her biology teacher spend days apologizing for
having to teach evolution in order not to offend any religious folks.]

Plus some people are just idiots.  Sigh.  

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body
 typeperiods)
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Cynthia J Ley wrote:

> There's an interesting section on toothpicks in DRESS ACCESSORIES
> 1150-1450 by Geoff Egan and Frances Pritchard (Museum of London
> series: 3), Boydell Press, 2002, ISBN 0 85115 839 0, p. 377-380. Too
> long to quote here, but the gist of it is that combination earscoops
> and toothpicks were frequently made of metal, most often metal
> sheeting, with an earscoop on one end of the handle and a toothpick on
> the other. Drawings of the archaelogical finds are included.

I haven't read that passage (or have forgotten it), but I wonder how
certain it is that these devices were used for these particular functions.

Geoff told me once that the MoL team made a lot of wild guesses regarding
the purposes of many of the artifacts in those books. He didn't tell me
which ones were in question, and I didn't ask ;-) This seems to be fairly
standard practice in archaeology.

But I'd be keen on knowing whether there's any, say, written evidence for
the use of earscoops. You see those little spoon things in Viking caches,
too -- I once heard someone surmise they were coke spoons. ;-) It's always
been assumed they were for ear cleaning, but I don't know whether there's
any reason to think that, or whether that's just someone's best guess
that's been repeated for years.

(I have kids, so I've seen Disney's "Little Mermaid." The mermaid learns
from a scholar of her own land about the strange human artifacts they have
found on wrecked ships, and about their uses. Later, when she first comes
to a human dwelling, she tries to comb her hair with a fork...)

I seem to recall reading that there's documentary references to
toothpicks, but I'd have no idea where to look to find that out.
Inventories, maybe? Etiquette manuals?

--Robin

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<<>>

        Depends on how much you liked history in school.  American
History was a whole bunch easier than World History.

        And I agree, I envy your looks every time I see a picture of you
in the fabulous dress Bjarne made. 

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Lalah
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 13:22:17 2002
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>I haven't read that passage (or have forgotten it), but I wonder how
certain it is that these devices were used for these particular functions.

I think of it derives from the sets Victorians use, which presumably when
archaeology was in its infancy the use of the victorian ones was contempory
or within memory (I have one somewhere)

The picks work well between the teeth, but not so much on the plaque build
up really unless you scrape which dosen't seem to have been effective if
they did use them ! As you say it is supposition which is much of what
archaeology is about & often very wrongly. There is that famous case in Oz ?

>You see those little spoon things in Viking caches,
too -- I once heard someone surmise they were coke spoons. ;-) It's always
been assumed they were for ear cleaning, but I don't know whether there's
any reason to think that, or whether that's just someone's best guess
that's been repeated for years.

Best guess I think based on Vicky ear scoops, which are a bit different I
think. Im not sure ear wax would survive into the archaeological record :)

Mel

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<<>> 

        Not all Americans are pushy.  Mostly the pushy ones are from the
Northeast or California.  Southern and mid western Americans are usually
quite polite.  

        I have said it before and will say it again - Americans are all
completely different.  We come from different places and live different
lifestyles.  On my mother's side we have been here since the mid 1600s,
on my father's side some came in the 1700s and some were here from the
early migrations of peoples into North America thousands of years ago.  I
have several friends who are from the north and I hate to be in a car
with them as it seems like they are always yelling and they have a more
piercing voice than those from the south.  People from the north are loud
and bossy, while the southerners are more quiet and pretty much do their
controlling without so much noise.  

        So that ought to get me in the dog house with all my yankee (that
is northern, to you of other countries) friends, but that is they way it
looks to this old southern lady.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 13:23:44 2002
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Ah another one, which few in England follow now, you don't bite the bread
but tear small pieces off it

Mel

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 13:32:33 2002
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From: Margo Anderson 
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The Gallery section of my website is now up.  Go to margospatterns.com  to
see the wonderful variety of costumes that a number of talented individuals
have made from the Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe pattern ensemble.  

And check out the Iron Dress competition for some stunning examples of
costuming on a budgest!

Margo Anderson
"One Tough Costumer"


See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com
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No Karen it just suggest you are getting so old & well travelled you have
seen every type there is ;)

Mel

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From: Tasha McGann 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: rabbit fur
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:40:55 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

Robin wrote:
I have been musing on how to manage to get modern fur
to be as lightweight
and close-clipped as must have been done in period.
I'm a little short on
Russian squirrels. Anyone have an idea if rabbit fur
would be flexible and
light enough? Has anyone tried trimming fur
themselves?

_____________________________

My exposure to rabbit fur tells me that it's somewhat
flexible but is greatly affected by whorls and
cowlicks. A friend who has cut it for use in costume
said she was sneezing and coughing up wisps of bunny
fur for days afterwards -- it really likes to migrate
through the air once cut. I imagine you COULD trim it,
but it tends to lay down on its own, which would make
it harder to get a uniform height of pile. Still: it's
probably the cheapest white fur you'll find (I'm
guessing), and unless someone volunteers to start a
miniver/vair/ermine farm for us, it would probably be
my first choice too.

Here's an interesting link on using fur in costume
from Mistress Fuiltigherne:
http://www.meridies.org/as/dmir/Costume&Fashion/0905.html

I don't see sources in this article, and I don't know
much about fur, but it does seem to contain some
useful information, especially in the first paragraph.


-Tasha

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: rabbit fur
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:04:57 -0500
Status: RO

        I make teddy bears from real fur and have to trim their muzzles. 
I use clippers designed to trim dogs (actually, I got them to remove
matts from my Persians).  With a little practice you can get a very neat,
smooth trim this way.  I expect a razor would work as well.  Try it on a
scrap piece until you get the feel of it.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:30:05 +0000
Status: RO

Audrey Bergeron-Morin  wrote
>> When I travel to another country, I do make an effort to have at least a
>> few basic phrases of the language, at least enough to say "excuse me" when
>> I bump into someone on the street. (In England, the term for this seems to
>> be "Sorry," which gets me very strange looks here in the US.)
>
>What are you supposed to say in the US? "Excuse me"? I usually say "Sorry".
>I'm in Canada, but I'm French-speaking (in a bilingual city), so I might
>have been using the wrong expression for years...
>
>Does anyone know what the norm is in Montreal? ;-)

In the UK it's usually "Sorry" for bumping someone, "Excuse me" would be 
a request to get through, or an apology for inadvertent bodily noises. 
But I remember saying "Pardon" to people for about a week after coming 
back from a trip to France.  "Pardon" in the UK meaning could you repeat 
that, please.

I do find Americans are much more formal in this kind of thing.  There 
was the chap who thanked me for holding a door with "Thank you ma'am, I 
do appreciate it", when here he would have got away with "Ta"!

Jean

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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets
References: <009601c29637$b80e2e60$b50f23d9@dan>
 
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:41:39 +0000
Status: RO

Robin Netherton  wrote
>
>On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote:
>
>> ... 'Fur in dress', by Elizabeth Ewing, Batsford, London, 1981. (not
>> only on what was actually worn but also on the apparently wholesale
>> unwitting exclusion of fur in subsequent romanticised notions of what
>> was worn in that period)
>>
>> And, of course, Elspeth Veale's The English Fur Trade in the Later
>> Middle Ages.' Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1966, the magisterial
>> and indispensible starting point in any consideration of this subject.
>
>These sound like great sources. Thanks. I'm surprised I hadn't found them
>yet! But I haven't gone searching for sources specifically on fur.
>
>> The white fur was almost certainly the belly fur of the Russian
>> squirrel; very light in weight and unbelievably soft, as well as
>> unbelievably expensive, though the unseen inner part of the sleeve may
>> well have been a cheaper fur.
>
>I have been musing on how to manage to get modern fur to be as lightweight
>and close-clipped as must have been done in period. I'm a little short on
>Russian squirrels. Anyone have an idea if rabbit fur would be flexible and
>light enough? Has anyone tried trimming fur themselves?
>
>> Forgive the brevity of this note; I have only one hand in use for a
>> few days.
>
>Ouch! Thanks for taking the time to post.
>
>--Robin

How close can you clip the fur before you lose the benefit of it?  After 
all, if you shave it, it's just leather :-)  And the belly of a squirrel 
doesn't get you many yards.  Presumably they used heavier furs to line 
the skirts and garments that were less close fitted?  Perhaps that's why 
we have such difficulty finding fabrics that look fine enough, while 
having a heavy enough drape?

Jean

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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body typeperiods)
References: <20021127.094916.-153497.2.Cley@juno.com>
 
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:48:34 +0000
Status: RO

Robin Netherton  wrote
>
>On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Cynthia J Ley wrote:
>
>> There's an interesting section on toothpicks in DRESS ACCESSORIES
>> 1150-1450 by Geoff Egan and Frances Pritchard (Museum of London
>> series: 3), Boydell Press, 2002, ISBN 0 85115 839 0, p. 377-380. Too
>> long to quote here, but the gist of it is that combination earscoops
>> and toothpicks were frequently made of metal, most often metal
>> sheeting, with an earscoop on one end of the handle and a toothpick on
>> the other. Drawings of the archaelogical finds are included.
>
>I haven't read that passage (or have forgotten it), but I wonder how
>certain it is that these devices were used for these particular functions.
>
>Geoff told me once that the MoL team made a lot of wild guesses regarding
>the purposes of many of the artifacts in those books. He didn't tell me
>which ones were in question, and I didn't ask ;-) This seems to be fairly
>standard practice in archaeology.
>
>But I'd be keen on knowing whether there's any, say, written evidence for
>the use of earscoops. You see those little spoon things in Viking caches,
>too -- I once heard someone surmise they were coke spoons. ;-) It's always
>been assumed they were for ear cleaning, but I don't know whether there's
>any reason to think that, or whether that's just someone's best guess
>that's been repeated for years.
>
Not sure about Viking ones, but I know you get little sets in Roman 
finds with a scoop, a pair of tweezers and ?some sort of pick, all on a 
ring.  So it seems reasonably certain the spoon thing is not for food. 
And being Roman, there's very likely textual references to confirm what 
they are for.

Jean

>(I have kids, so I've seen Disney's "Little Mermaid." The mermaid learns
>from a scholar of her own land about the strange human artifacts they have
>found on wrecked ships, and about their uses. Later, when she first comes
>to a human dwelling, she tries to comb her hair with a fork...)
>
>I seem to recall reading that there's documentary references to
>toothpicks, but I'd have no idea where to look to find that out.
>Inventories, maybe? Etiquette manuals?
>
>--Robin
>
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body  typeperiods)
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:51:49 +0000
Status: RO

leigh tartaglio  wrote
>
>
>
>> But far fewer teeth were lost in the first place
>> than were, say, a century ago. (I believe this research was based on grave
>> finds; I'm not sure. I found it referenced in the dental literature when I
>> was working on a non-costume-related project, so I don't know where any
>> archaeological evidence might lie -- at least several generations of
>> citations back from the document I had.)
>> There were also a variety of teeth-cleaning methods in use historically,
>> depending on your class and culture. I was most amused at a scene in
>> Shakespeare in Love, when Gwyneth Paltrow is dressing, and her nurse hands
>> her some small instrument and demands she clean her teeth. I'm not sure
>> what the instrument was, but it looked like the equivalent of the
>> frayed-end stick used commonly by many more "primitive" cultures.
>>
>
>Hi, All. Regarding the teeth docs, there is a great chapter in the recently
>released "Blood Red Roses" book on the archaeological find of grave pits for
>the bodies of soldiers killed at the Battle of Towton (War of Roses, England
>15th Cent.) There is a whole chapter on dental condition of the bodies,
>related to both dental care and injuries. Regarding the "Shakespeare" movie, I
>don't think they were using brushy sticks, but there is ample evidence for
>mouthwashes (to tighten gums around loose teeth), powders (mild abrasives
>wiped on with cloths or fingers) and toothpicks. Costume content: there are
>some clothing-related materials from the Towton battlefield that shed some
>light on fashions of the period to include those little hook-like clothing
>fasteners that are sewn on to who-knows-what. One person who had illustrated a
>book on the Netherlands in the 16th Cent. had conjectured that they were for
>holding down the flappy pieces on the back of Flemish women's upper garments.
>This may have been a use, but the battle in question happened in England in
>1461 in the winter, in a snowstorm between two forces of professional
>soldiers. Since they weren't found in situ on bodies, they could have been a
>number of things... cloak hooks, hooks for doublets and hose, hooks to keep
>chaperon tails attached around the head (?) or even shoe furniture(?). (Blood
>Red Roses; the Archaeology of a Mass Grave from the Battle of Towton 1461 ed.
>by Veronica Fiorato, Anthea Boylston and Christopher Knusel 2000 Oxbow Books
>ISBN 1-84217-025-2 Chapter 7; Dental Health and Disease, and fig. 14.5a, color
>section)  Cheers, Mike T.
>

Have they been found with hooks, or are they assumed to hook into thread 
loops?  I'm wondering if they are the same as ones I've seen sold as 
belt furniture, to hang things off.  I'm imagining I've seen this on an 
effigy, but no idea where to look.

Jean
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From: "Land of Oz" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: rabbit fur
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:54:17 -0600
Status: RO

Has anyone experimented with using Angora fiber in a densely knitted or
woven fabric? I'd think you could raise and trim (or not trim as you please)
the nap to approximate fine short fur.  It might not bear close scrutiny,
but it would certainly pass the galloping horse test.  :-)  The key would be
to use a very long fibered Angora yarn to get the nicest possible halo of
"fur".



Denise
landofoz@netins.net


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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:12:03 -0000
Status: RO

Tasha wrote:
>
> Here's an interesting link on using fur in costume
> from Mistress Fuiltigherne:
> http://www.meridies.org/as/dmir/Costume&Fashion/0905.html
>
> I don't see sources in this article, and I don't know
> much about fur, but it does seem to contain some
> useful information, especially in the first paragraph.

Unfortunately the first paragraph has some obvious inaccuracies; for
example, vair was the whole skin of the Russian squirrel, white belly
and grey back.  There is a lengthy glossary, and discussion, in
Elspeth Veale's book on the often vexed questions of terminology in
the medieval fur trade.

best wishes
Stevie

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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:28:13 -0000
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Jean wrote:

>
> How close can you clip the fur before you lose the benefit of it?
After
> all, if you shave it, it's just leather :-)

Pretty close; see the extensive use of dyed sheared muskrat to imitate
seal skin in late 19th - 20th century. But there are many furs which
are shorthaired to start with, and many furs which are always sheared
because the guard hairs are stiff and nasty.
.
And the belly of a squirrel
> doesn't get you many yards.

Indeed it doesn't; garments used hundreds and sometimes thousands of
skins.


Presumably they used heavier furs to line
> the skirts and garments that were less close fitted?

It depends on the period and the fashion.

  >Perhaps that's why
> we have such difficulty finding fabrics that look fine enough, while
> having a heavy enough drape?
>

If you accept Elspeth Veale's research, and as far as I can see no-one
has ever challenged it, then the fur linings would give a drape to
apparently light weight fabric.

best wishes
Stevie

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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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> Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't have any
history
> - other than Native American - before, what, early 17th? That must be a
bummer!

Well...not so much as you might think. For one thing, we do have the
internet for research, and a fiar amount of ability to ttravel.

And, if we're patient researchers, we can find our own little claim to
history in the lands our ancestors came from. My aunt traced our family tree
back far enough to discover that a long-ago ancestor fought with Oliver
Cromwell. Later ancestors were forced to flee America for Canada becuase
they were Loyalists.

We survive.  ;-)

Dianne
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:55:25 -0800
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> And then there are the people who were given antibiotics as a child
> and it greyed their teeth...I think it's amoxicillin? Yet another
> reason to use antibiotics with caution...

Tetracycline and chloramphenicol will color the teeth. Amoxicillin 
and the other 'cillins do not do so.

However, the illnesses that they are used to treat *will* cause tooth 
color changes. Fevers and the like cause far more tooth damage than 
any antibiotic (with the exception of the above two). 

(But then, if you don't need it you shouldn't take antibiotics 
because otherwise we'll develop superstrains of nasty bacteria like 
we had with Hemophilus influenza in the 80s before we got Augmentin, 
Rocephin and the HIB vaccine, and like we are getting with 
Streptococcus pneumoniae, aka pneumococcus, which we are having 
problems with now. But then, I well remember taking care of kids 
dying of H.flu meningitis which had nothing on meningococcal 
meningitis which you hear about now. I damn near quit being a 
pediatrician because of the devastation I saw and the malpractice 
suits I saw my fellow pediatricians go through with H.flu.)

Kat Russell


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Mike T. wrote: 
> Hi, All. Regarding the teeth docs, there is a great chapter in the
> recently released "Blood Red Roses" book on the archaeological find of
> grave pits for the bodies of soldiers killed at the Battle of Towton
> (War of Roses, England 15th Cent.) There is a whole chapter on dental
> condition of the bodies, related to both dental care and injuries. 

> (Blood Red Roses; the Archaeology of a Mass Grave from the Battle of
> Towton 1461 ed. by Veronica Fiorato, Anthea Boylston and Christopher
> Knusel 2000 Oxbow Books ISBN 1-84217-025-2 Chapter 7; Dental Health
> and Disease, and fig. 14.5a, color section)  Cheers, Mike T.

This indeed shows clearly what some of the list members have been 
trying to get across: dental caries were rare (only 8.9% of the 
teeth, which is *far* less than most modern people's mouths unless 
they get regular dental care.) Most of the tooth problems was for 
periodontal disease, but I'd be willing to be that those who do not 
get regular dental care also get that as well, even if they are 
modern.

The teeth often showed a lot of wear (which can contribute to 
periodontal disease and traumatic tooth loss and caries). While some 
of the things were what you would expect of a culture where the food 
might contain such things as stoneground grains (one of the reasons 
why the Egyptians had such horrible tooth problems), this particular 
group of people had unusual wear on the backs of their front teeth as 
well as on one side of their mouth in a single tooth that (because it 
erupts much later from the other molars and is not a usual grinding 
surface is rarely worn) they feel are both due to some occupational 
activity or a personal habit (sort of like the unusual tooth damage 
that pipe smokers get to one area of their mouth.)

In _London Bodies_ by Alex Warner put out by the Museum of London (to 
go along with their "London Bodies" exhibit) ISBN0-904818-90-x they 
talk about dental history throughout the book. They go time period by 
time period. Prehistoric teeth were pretty terrible, but that goes 
along with the many health stressors in that time (illness, 
cleanliness, lack of food, etc). Roman teeth only showed a 7% rate of 
cavities although they had illness and inadequate diet problems as 
well (hypoplastic teeth) as well as tooth wear patterns indicative of 
"a coarse diet". Medieval teeth showed hypoplasia (which might not be 
visible at all while the person was alive) and few cavities except 
amongst populations who were "rich" (and had access to a diet rich in 
sugar.)

However, when you get to the 18th and 19th centuries, that's when you 
start seeing the major dental problems show up.  It was bad in upper 
class people because there was "a lock of oral hygeiene made worse by 
a diet that caused tooth decay and required little chewing." There 
was evidence of some sorts of restorative dental work (such as a gold 
tooth and wired in teeth).

This all goes along with what Robin said about teeth being 
*relatively* good until the diet changed so that cavities become much 
more frequent.

Modern teeth that do not get regular dental care are going to have 
some advantage over previous times in that we have more dental 
products. Our diets are generally better as is our overall health.

However, we have things in our diet which can make modern teeth even 
worse, especially compared to the medieval period: coffee and tea 
stains, cigarette/tobacco stains, caramel coloring in pops, erosion 
of the teeth due to the carbonic acid formed by the bubbly carbonated 
water in most pops, etc. Chances are a modern European's teeth are 
far more yellow/brown than an medieval person's teeth because of it.

Then you get into genetics. I come from British Isle stock (3/4 
Scottish) and Scandinavian stock (1/4 Swedish). In our family we 
rarely have any cavities (I, at 48 years of age, have a grand total 
of 2 fillings, both of which I got as an adult. And, believe me, it 
wasn't because I was good at brushing my teeth. I have very little 
plaque in spite of not having had my teeth cleaned in over 7 years).

Yet my half sister (who had a father with a family history of 
incredibly bad teeth compared to my father's family's incredibly good 
teeth) has a mouth which is more filling than tooth. 

She would have been adentulate by the time she was 25 (or dead of an 
abscess which went septic) in medieval times. I, on the other hand, 
would probably look much like I do now. And that's just by genetics.

Also, you have to factor in the "infectious" side of cavities and 
tooth loss. If you factor out things like coarse diet causing wear, 
inadequate diet causing hypoplasis, rich diet causing direct tooth 
problems, etc, you are still left with a phenomenon due to the fact 
that children of mothers (whether it is a biologic mother or an 
adoptive mother) with poor dentition due to cavities are more likely 
to have children with cavities.

Then you add to that things like constant bottles with juice or milk 
or constant breastfeeding (which a medieval mom wouldn't have done 
like we do now), and you have even *more* cavities.

So, is it any wonder that people who do not spend as much time on 
their teeth but are modern have such rotten teeth. They eat things 
that are bad for teeth, have parents with bad teeth who infect their 
teeth and they probably don't have the good genetics to pass on.

And I'd be willing to bet if Halle Berry were in a "period piece" she 
would do something to tone down her "white-white" teeth. In a Bond 
flick it is more fitting the other way.

But then, in a period piece she wouldn't have been wearing that 
bright orange bikini either. ;)

Kat Russell


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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:43:17 +1100
Status: RO

Of  course! Something that I just took as read.

No wonder we have such trouble working out how things happened 200-2000
years ago, if it's so hard to put together what happens on one's own dinner
table.

Glenda.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Melanie Wilson" 

> In England the cutting edge of the knife should point inwards towards the
> fork
>
> Mel
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 16:43:18 2002
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <20021125140952.37018.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: uitRe: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:43:27 +0100
Status: RO

I am always late, and my god! you surely are bold Nicole!
I have so much emails to catch because of you!!!

I am a dane, living north of Europe, north of Germany, and i must say one
thing about being something, being an earth person
German perople, are very rude, very :" here i come" Everything i say is
right, anybody?
Danish people are very polite and say : "Am i allowed to be here" ?
American say : "Sure honey, Come on over here and let me give you a hug!"
English people says: Could you please come ower here and let me give you a
hug!!!
Sorry folks, i dont want to mess up with people here, I love to be an
h-costume member.
But let me tell you something when it comes to hush languge!
I just told 18th century womens list that Mantua Makers patterns for Stays
sucks!
And it really sucks It really does, because i think it is a lower class
colonial pair of stays they send me.
This is because i am an European Gentleman, making European Fashion Dresses
for European Ladies.
Gosh : Not quite!!!
At this moment i am dressing  an American  lady in European Clothing.
She is going to be dressed in ; Norah Waugh's  1770 pairs of stays  European
ones!!!!!!!!

I Love You All and  i cant live without you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House


> --- Drea Leed  wrote: >
> > On that subtle difference between Europeans and Americans (until they
> > open their mouths, that is:) Americans have the best orthodontics and
> > teeth I've seen, better (on average) than those I saw in Europe. They
>
> You can't have been to Germany then, everyone, just about everyone has/had
> braces and loads of things done to the teeth. Including myself :-) Seems
to be
> a fad. I have to say though, I have never seen so amny ugly and awful
teeth as
> here in England, as sorry I am to say this, but it is true and quite
shocking.
> Occasionally I can't really look into someone's face when speaking to
them,
> then again, at least the teeth here are very historically correct
apparently
> *grins*
>
> > seem to smile more, and be a bit..hmm...brighter, louder, more
> > flamboyant, I can't quite put my finger on the word. They take up more
> > personal space.
>
> Uhm... well, we call that rude. Sorry, but, well, that's what most people
I
> know think about American visitors and their behaviour. Too loud, too
> touchy-feely, too pushy, too brash etc. just because all of the above is
> considered to be impolite here (and in germany, I can only speak for two
> countries). Also, I may simply only know people who think as thus and
loads
> other people may think completely differently.
> Germans are usually considered to be rude too, but in a different way,
they are
> believed to jump queues (which has the capital punishment here for sucha
crime
> *G*) and be generally impolite and don't say enough thanks and please.
> Still, the Germans came out on top on a world wide survey of who are the
best
> travellers, because I think that germans have become so aware of the above
that
> they try to blend in most of the time. I also know who came bottom...
>
> Anyway, I find it fascinating how different countries behave but most of
all
> how they are perceived by others! What may be perfectly normal in their
country
> - like touching somebody, something that makes me scream, literally! - is
> considered rude or just plain impossible behaviour in others.
>
> As a summary I'd say, how on earth are we ever going to learn how to
> behave/move/hold ourselves/gesture historically correct when we can't even
> adapt to another country!
>
> :-)
>
> Nicole
>
> P.S. The best looking men I have ever seen were in Sweden (GOSH! YUMMY!
DROOL!)
> and South Africans exiled here in England (my gods there is a young one
working
> in the V&A I did a double take when I saw that 'model' and forgot what the
> words were to say 'could you plase take my jacket' *grins*)
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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Subject: history on yer doorstep, was Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures 
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:47:20 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Dianne and Greg Stucki  wrote: > 

> Well...not so much as you might think. For one thing, we do have the
> internet for research, and a fiar amount of ability to ttravel.

Ah no, Dianne, that's not what I meant. It's about going out of your doorstep
and it's there, everywhere. Farmer's fields that are happily ploughed around a
barrow or an early medieval ruin (quite a few here in Kent); or so many
historic buildings of many different hundreds of years that you don't even know
which ones to choose to visit. I think we here take it all for granted, to
picnic on a prehistoric flint mine and then have lunch in a Napolenic fort and
all on the same land *L*).

I DO envy you, the Canadians, the Australians, and the New Zealanders the
LOOOOOOOOADS of empty space and land. Though, if I could choose, I would always
stay where I am, in Europe, some places mopre and some places less cramped,
depends where you go :-)

Say, is this why it seems that people tend mostly to join the huge society, the
SCA, and not found smaller local ones that specialise in certain periods
(before the 18th century) because you have no locality to tie it to? Just a
thought, I'm ever curious.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:55:49 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Lalah T Tillinghast  wrote: > 

>         Depends on how much you liked history in school.  American
> History was a whole bunch easier than World History.

*laughs* Now THAT is very true :-)

>         And I agree, I envy your looks every time I see a picture of you
> in the fabulous dress Bjarne made. 

Ohhh thanks *blush*

Nicole

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: uitRe: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:02:46 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > I am always late,
and my god! you surely are bold Nicole!
> I have so much emails to catch because of you!!!

:-)))))) *winks*

> I am a dane, living north of Europe, north of Germany, and i must say one
> thing about being something, being an earth person
> German perople, are very rude, very :" here i come" Everything i say is
> right, anybody?

*laughs* Yep, I met those as well, makes me pretend I am English ;-) Not my
parents though, they are so genteel and panicked they might do something wrong
they seem to tiptoe politely through their lives. Yeah, the question is, what
happened to their daughter! *EG*

> I just told 18th century womens list that Mantua Makers patterns for Stays
> sucks!
> And it really sucks It really does, because i think it is a lower class
> colonial pair of stays they send me.
> This is because i am an European Gentleman, making European Fashion Dresses
> for European Ladies.
> Gosh : Not quite!!!

Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear this, but I hope that the upscaled Norah Waugh one
works fine.

> I Love You All and  i cant live without you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

I, for one, feel honoured my dear.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, trimming fur
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:43:01 -0700 h-costume-request@indra.com writes:
> Message: 1
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:04:57 -0500
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: rabbit fur
> From: Lalah T Tillinghast 
> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
>         I make teddy bears from real fur and have to trim their 
> muzzles. 
> I use clippers designed to trim dogs (actually, I got them to 
> remove
> matts from my Persians).  

   I used to repair oriental carpets.  The New York company we ordered
our supplies from carried pile shears, which have 'pelican mouth' shaped
blades--one blade is wide and tapers to a very sharp point.  While the
wide, 'pouch' blade (as I thought of it) was smaller, the local fabric
store carried Gingher brand *applique* shears, which I promptly
purchased, as there was only one pair of pile shears at the shop and the
Ginghers were a better quality blade.  Replacing the worn pile would call
for shearing the wool loops I replaced, and (especially on Caucasian
rugs) you could wind up with a pile height under 1/4".  Because the wool
pile knots are tied around adjacent warps, you wind up with a nap (like
the fur).  

   Because we were clipping relatively small areas, we clipped the pile
flat on the repair table.  I have seen photos of men using knives and the
spring shears that look like sheep shears to trim the pile on newly
finished rugs.  They spread the rug over a round beam.  It's fairly easy,
once you get the feel for it--your sense of touch developers fairly
quickly.

  Elizabeth

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:44:10 -0800
Status: RO

Dianne wrote:
> And, if we're patient researchers, we can find our own little claim to
> history in the lands our ancestors came from. My aunt traced our
> family tree back far enough to discover that a long-ago ancestor
> fought with Oliver Cromwell. Later ancestors were forced to flee
> America for Canada becuase they were Loyalists.

My grandmother was able to trace our ancestry back to a younger son 
of John Russell (the one who were related to the heir are now the 
Dukes of Bedfords). He was evidently on the wrong side of things 
during Jane Grey's short reign (and an unrepentant Protestant to 
boot). While Daddy was able to stay and do ok even under Queen Mary, 
my distant ancestor had to high tail it to Scotland. The family 
remained there until the Highland Clearances forced them to 
immigrate.)

So I got a real kick out of the docent at the Chapel at Windsor who, 
when I asked where Henry VIII was buried said "Oh, you don't want to 
look at *his* grave. You want to look at George III. He's *your* 
king." Well, from my point of view, George was *not* my king. He was 
the King of the Sassenach. And he was certainly not king when my 
family left Scotland (who, if you are reaching, *was* my last King, 
even if he was also a King of the Sassenach.)

But then I guess she thought that all Americans were only interested 
in the history related to America. (The only part of American History 
I'm interested in is the history of Williamsburg and the history of 
the War of 1812. Otherwise, I much prefer studying early 16th C 
history.)

Kat Russell


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Subject: Re: uitRe: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

> I Love You All and i cant live without you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

We love you too, Bjarne! Come on over here and let me give you a hug!

--Robin, American


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Subject: NZ and LotR Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
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> I remember watching one of the endurance races that took place in New
> Zealand. What an extraordinarily beautiful country! :D

I may be incredibly biased but yes. There are some absolutely breathtaking
sites here. Flying over Mount Tarawera and the .. 14km long fissure with the
layers of colours of volcanic rock.. Rotorua with the geyers and stinky mud
pools;) And of course the South Island. Much of which features in the Lord
of the Rings trilogy;)

Actually just putting together a copy of Eowyn's white dress from The Two
Towers. Really fun to put together as it has no shaping seams but the side
and centre back. And blerg the only way to close it is an invisible zip as
it is not fitting enough to use hooks and eyes or lacing (using rings as
there are no stitched on the outside of the dress.

I'm trying to work out what era it might pass for...  ah well it's pretty
that's all I care for;)

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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Very nice pieces! If the proof is in the pudding, then you can certainly
consider your patterns a success. The red dress looks a bit familiar
tho..... I was one of the mid-level judges that sent her to the finals
for her prize! I knew she would take it too. I knew the competition
(Heck, I chose her competition!) and aside from the fact that it's a
terrific dress, there really wasn't much to hold a candle to it. As an
observation- there seems to be a trend currently for people to load their
gowns with all sorts of trim and beads and doo-dads, whether the design
really warrants it or not. While many gowns (particularly of Queen E) are
very detailed, there are a great number of dresses which aren't
over-wrought with doo-dads and which let the simple elegance of the
fabric and design show to advantage. To my mind it's the difference
between the nouveau riche piling all sorts of big flashy jewelry on to
show that they can afford it, and the 'old money' having just a subtle
piece or two demonstrating their inate good taste. 

My Tuppence Worth,


Karen




On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:31:32 -0800 Margo Anderson
 writes:
> The Gallery section of my website is now up.  Go to margospatterns.com 
to
> see the wonderful variety of costumes that a number of talented 
> individuals have made from the Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe pattern
ensemble.  
> 
> And check out the Iron Dress competition for some stunning examples 
> of costuming on a budgest!
> 
> Margo Anderson
> "One Tough Costumer"
> 
> 
> See the Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 

________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
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At 4:02 PM +0000 11/27/02, N Kipar wrote:

>Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't have 
>any history
>- other than Native American - before, what, early 17th? That must 
>be a bummer!


But we do -- we simply tend to trace history via family rather than 
via geography.  (Which makes a heckuva lot of sense, given how much 
people tend to move around these days.)  When I think about "my 18th 
century history", I don't think in terms of what people were doing in 
the 18th century in the plot of land that has now become Oakland, 
Calif. -- why should I when I didn't have any connections with 
Oakland earlier than 20 years ago?  I think in terms of what people 
were doing in the 18th century in the places where my ancestors were 
located at that time.  So "my 18th century history" covers a vast 
scope of geographic territory on both sides of the Atlantic.  And my 
pre-17th century history is solidly located in northern Europe.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
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<<<...  ah well it's pretty
that's all I care for;)>>>

        And sometimes that is all that really counts!
Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From: "Jennifer Sena" 
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Thank You!!  I had, in fact, missed that link.


Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!




>Hi,
>For those that missed it.  The instructions for the pattern upsizing are 
>online at my site.
>http://www.seams-to-be.com/instructions/grade.htm
>--
>Linda Thompson
>
>Visit www.seams-to-be.com
>where Attitude is Everything


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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, N Kipar 
Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:56:09 -0500
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On Wednesday 27 November 2002 11:02 am, N Kipar wrote:
>  --- michaela  wrote: >
[text cut here]

>
> *laughs* Oh dear.... I. for one, will definitely when I have enough money
> together go and see NZ, everyone who went couldn't stop going on in ecstasy
> about the landscapes.

If the landscapes featured in the first Lord of the Rings movie are typical of 
New Zealand (as a friend of mine there tells me they are), I am not at *all* 
surprised.

[text cut here]

> While here, well... I find that the UK is, well, how can I say it politely,
> 'not very pro and looks down upon' a lot that stands for America. Note the
> last bit: 'stands for' that does not mean necessarily the country or people
> themselves, but the things that are disliked. Uh, do I make sense? nah. *L*
> I suppose it's the same for every country, but I guess the bigger one is,
> the more to pick at.

I think I do.  I have never been the target of personal animosity from any 
native of Great Btitain (with the exception of one time when I inadvertently 
jumped a queue!).  On the other hand, my British acquaintances have never 
been shy about taking issue with me about cultural habits, etc. that they 
believed to be wasteful, rude, stupid or otherwise wrong.
>
> Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't have any
> history - other than Native American - before, what, early 17th? That must
> be a bummer!

Speaking for myself, I have always found US history boring, and have been more 
drawn to European history--British history in particular.  

--
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:02:58 -0500
Status: RO

    Just delurking for a minute to remind y'all that parts of the "new
world" have a much older history than that, and it's traceable.
     The "vikings" had a "permanent" settlement, which is quite well known
and documented, and they traveled around and south quite a bit also.
    The Portugese fished off the east coast on a yearly basis.  If I recall
correctly, Columbus had one of their maps, it just wasn't what he thought it
was.
    There was Henry Hudson, Senor Verazzano, and others who came before
Columbus.
    And the south coast, especially Florida, has a history of permanent
settlement that goes back at least to the 1400's, and is well documented.
    The native american Indians are pretty interesting, a lot of them are
still here, they own the entire city of Salamanca in western New York State,
and they built a lot of NY City as high steel workers.  They are some of the
specialists who took the mess apart piece by piece too.
    There are also lots of other things, huge "prehistoric" barrow mounds in
the shapes of animals, ancient stone burial sites, strange buildings here
and there, and so on.  There's a place near me, in central NYS,  a large
dressed and fitted stone floor on a hillside overlooking a beautiful lake,
that's ancient and of unknown origin.  Somebody was here, somebody who knew
what they were doing.
    We have a lot more history than might seem obvious, it just needs more
research.
    Or then, you could read the Book of Mormon (which I'm not), with it's
accounts of ancient tribes of Israel that lived here-------but that's a
whole 'nother very long story.

Diane S. -------just puttin' in my 2 cents for the fun of needling you a
bit.  My grandfather found a viking axehead on the south shore of Lake
Ontario.  It's in a museum.  They were here.  And they were my ancestors.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't have
>any history
>- other than Native American - before, what, early 17th? That must
>be a bummer!

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: teeth
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:16:26 -0500
Status: RO

On Wednesday 27 November 2002 03:55 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote:
> Mike T. wrote:
> > Hi, All. Regarding the teeth docs, there is a great chapter in the
> > recently released "Blood Red Roses" book on the archaeological find of
> > grave pits for the bodies of soldiers killed at the Battle of Towton
> > (War of Roses, England 15th Cent.) There is a whole chapter on dental
> > condition of the bodies, related to both dental care and injuries.
>
> 
>
> > (Blood Red Roses; the Archaeology of a Mass Grave from the Battle of
> > Towton 1461 ed. by Veronica Fiorato, Anthea Boylston and Christopher
> > Knusel 2000 Oxbow Books ISBN 1-84217-025-2 Chapter 7; Dental Health
> > and Disease, and fig. 14.5a, color section)  Cheers, Mike T.
>
> This indeed shows clearly what some of the list members have been
> trying to get across: dental caries were rare (only 8.9% of the
> teeth, which is *far* less than most modern people's mouths unless
> they get regular dental care.) Most of the tooth problems was for
> periodontal disease, but I'd be willing to be that those who do not
> get regular dental care also get that as well, even if they are
> modern.

I have news for you.  Periodontal disease is common in the modern world.  Some 
apparently claim that one-third to one-half of the adult population has it 
(at least in the US, anyway):  The following pages give different statistics 
from different sources, but these are more or less consistent with the 
warnings I get from my dentist:

http://www.periopros.com/PERIODONTICS/perio_stats.html

http://www.nyaesthetics.com/pages/wellness/mens_health/oral_health_statistics.htm

[text cut here]

> In _London Bodies_ by Alex Warner put out by the Museum of London (to
> go along with their "London Bodies" exhibit) ISBN0-904818-90-x they
> talk about dental history throughout the book. They go time period by
> time period. Prehistoric teeth were pretty terrible, but that goes
> along with the many health stressors in that time (illness,
> cleanliness, lack of food, etc). Roman teeth only showed a 7% rate of
> cavities although they had illness and inadequate diet problems as
> well (hypoplastic teeth) as well as tooth wear patterns indicative of
> "a coarse diet". 


> Medieval teeth showed hypoplasia (which might not be
> visible at all while the person was alive) and few cavities except
> amongst populations who were "rich" (and had access to a diet rich in
> sugar.)

This is consistent with what I half-remembered about evidence from human 
remains.



-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Subject: Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type periods)
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On Tuesday 26 November 2002 10:08 pm, michaela wrote:
> I shall head this with teeth comments;) My personal feeling is that way too
> much orthodontic work is done on teeth. For example I'd have been in braces
> soon as it was deemed safe (which is a bit of an arbitrary term anyway...)
> for a very very minor problem. I have vampire teeth. Very large incisors
> that are also set out a little way from the rest of the teeth. To 'correct'
> this I'd need 4 teeth removed even though my lower set are absolutely fine.
> And that's just not worth it for me. They aren't glaring they don't
> interfere with anything.
>
> No one notices my teeth either until I point it out to them. Or are
> obsessed with straight teeth;)

In fact, some Goths would probably love to have your teeth, and would consider 
them an asset.  :-)



-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, Tasha McGann 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: rabbit fur
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:55:12 -0500
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On Wednesday 27 November 2002 01:40 pm, Tasha McGann wrote:

[text cut here]
> My exposure to rabbit fur tells me that it's somewhat
> flexible but is greatly affected by whorls and
> cowlicks. 

You're probably right if the hair length is rather long.  However, all the 
rabbit pelts I've seen have had fairly short hairs (no more than about 1 cm 
each or so).


>A friend who has cut it for use in costume
> said she was sneezing and coughing up wisps of bunny
> fur for days afterwards -- it really likes to migrate
> through the air once cut.

Wow.  Sounds darn dangerous to me.  I've never tried to cut bunny fur in any 
significant amounts, though I've often thought about starting a project that 
might require doing so.

> I imagine you COULD trim it,
> but it tends to lay down on its own, which would make
> it harder to get a uniform height of pile.

The pelts, especially the white pelts I've seen, had a hair length short 
enough that I doubt I'd bother trying to trim it further.


> Still: it's
> probably the cheapest white fur you'll find (I'm
> guessing), 

For tippets, sure.  I've seen reasonable quality pelts (roughly 24 cm by 16 
cm) for $3-$5 U.S. Unfortunately, the store I saw those at closed years ago, 
so I don't know where I'd go for bunny fur nowadays.


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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To: h-costume@indra.com, "Land of Oz" 
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:57:06 -0500
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On Wednesday 27 November 2002 02:54 pm, Land of Oz wrote:
> Has anyone experimented with using Angora fiber in a densely knitted or
> woven fabric? I'd think you could raise and trim (or not trim as you
> please) the nap to approximate fine short fur.  It might not bear close
> scrutiny, but it would certainly pass the galloping horse test.  :-)  The
> key would be to use a very long fibered Angora yarn to get the nicest
> possible halo of "fur".

My impression is that the tough part would be managing to knit Angora into a 
dense fabric, but I'm no expert on knitting.  

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 19:37:41 2002
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At the risk of making people irate, let me venture an explanation. In the
US, we also say "sorry" when we bump into people. But my experience in three
different visits to three parts of England (I don't remember whether this
was true of Scotlant, Wales, or Ireland) was that in the US, people try not
to bump into you in the first place. In England, especially London, I found
that people just barrel down the road bumping into people and saying
"sorry," very fast, every few seconds.

At first I found this offensive; then I just found it hysterically funny. In
every part of the US that I've visited (granted, not half) it would be
considered horribly rude to do that. You're supposed to weave in and out of
people's way, and to avoid bumping other people at all costs even if you
have to step off the sidewalk and onto the street.

On the other hand, I found people in England VERY scrupulous about going up
and down public stairs on the correct sides. In the US you just walk up and
down any old way you like -- of course, as long as you don't bump into
anyone! I found sticking to the "up" side and the "down" side was much more
efficient.

Gail Finke


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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, seamstrix@juno.com
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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On Tuesday 26 November 2002 05:45 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote:
> My Barbie had costumes made by me, and went on jungle adventures.....I
> was such an odd child.

My Barbie dolls had some costumes made by me, some of which were historical 
and others which were not.

I see a pattern developing here....
-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:06:53 -0500
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It's a lovely dress - but it's unfair that it's only a size 16.

Janet
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:07:42 -0500
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On Wednesday 27 November 2002 12:21 am, Robin Netherton wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
[question by COR cut here.  Robin responded:]

> It helps to look at these in the context of fur use in garments in this
> period. Documentary sources provide ample evidence for fur linings,
> particularly of upper-class garments. Bear in mind that the fur was
> typically trimmed close, not shaggy like most fur or fake fur today. 

I would not, in any event, expect a shaggy fur to be used to line fine silk or 
wool garments, even if we assume the climate was much colder than it is 
today.

>You
> often see fur decoration in places where the lining is brought over an
> edge and continued as a border -- e.g. hems, collars, and sleeve edges.
> Think especially of all those white borders at the bottoms of dresses --
> if that were fabric, it would be mucked up in a single wearing, but fur is
> very practical, as it takes heavy wear and brushes clean.

I don't remember seeing that many illustrations of white bordered hems, and 
mud, when dried, will brush off of many fabrics too.  However, you make a 
good point in that fur is tougher than many fabrics (though I wonder how many 
wearings it tood before those fur hems started to go bald....)

Moreover, as Stevie pointed out, the most popular furs used for fur linings 
were squirrel, which is a fine fur anyway, even before trimming.


> Artwork backs up what we know from documents, particularly in the
> placement of fur. In many examples of artwork, the fur is really pretty
> clear -- though perhaps not in online images, which lose a lot of detail.

Very little of my review of artwork for the period was performed online; most 
of it was done before the invention of the Web.  However, my bad memory may 
be a factor too--Gothic has never been one of my major periods of interest.  
:-)


> However, the method of presentation of fur varies by artistic school and
> style, and you need to know how to recognize it. In some periods, artists
> typically used certain standard patterns to indicate "fur," such as
> geometric piecing patterns or ermine spots; these are similar to the
> patterns that designate "fur" in heraldry. (I have seen people mistake
> these patterns for embroidery or other texturing, not being familiar with
> the painter's "rules" for fur depiction.) Over time, you're more likely to
> get reasonably good renderings of the fur texture in a more realistic
> fashion, showing its hairy surface or fluffy edges. The Limbourg brothers
> were good at this; get a good reproduction (not a scan!) of the Tres
> Riches Heures for some examples, including some fur tippets in the April
> calendar page. (That happens to be the first image in which I noticed that
> tippets were fur, as the rendering is undeniable. 

I would not go so far as to say "undeniable".  In fact, until the discussion 
in this thread I did not realize that the woman in black with the deep blue 
underdress (which I assume is the woman with tippets to whom you're 
referring) was wearing tippets at all-- I assumed her overdress had hanging 
sleeves with wide white trim. Looking at it now, I can see that there is 
grass visible between the edge of her left tippet and the outline of her 
torso.  (Though the artist kind of screwed up , because if the opening were 
genuinely that big, she'd have to be emaciated or have a hole in her torso or 
something...)


> I thought at first that
> was odd, having never heard anything but the "fabric" explanation before.
> That was more than 20 years ago. But once I had my eyes open, I learned
> how to look for fur, and found it far more common than I'd realized; I
> just hadn't been able to see it before.)

Perhaps.  I am familiar with the image from the Tres Riches Heures; in fact I 
have the book open on my desk as I type.  However, none of them shout "fur" 
to me, even now (though the grey lining of the pink houppelande on the 
kneeling woman at the far right does look kind of furry, now that we've been 
discussing it.  

Maybe the lesson here is that it takes more visual education than even you 
have presumed assumed to realize that what's being depicted in a miniature, 
even one of the finer ones such as the Tres Riches Heures, is fur instead of 
fabric....

[text cut here]

> What's important to recognize, then, is that in the cases in which we *do*
> have a clue, it's almost invariably (in my experience) fur. If something
> other than fur were used routinely, you'd think we'd see many more
> variants in the artwork that definitively show an alternative material. I
> can think of maybe a couple of examples of pendant sleeve linings (though
> not tippets) that have a design consistent with brocaded fabric as shown
> elsewhere in the same artist's work. That may indicate the use of a fabric
> for sleeve linings on occasion. But these are a real exception. The vast
> majority of pendant sleeve linings are either clearly fur or something
> ambiguous whose depiction is consistent with fur.

That brings me to my other problem, which is would a fur or fur-lined piece 
hang the way tippets are shown to hang in medieval art?  (I'd have the same 
problem with the "tippet as brocade" hypothesis>)  Upon reflection, I agree 
with you that the answer is "yes" for the woman shown on the April page of 
the Tres Riches Heures, but that representation is different from any other 
picture of a woman in a tippet I've ever seen.  


[text cut here]

> I think many of the misconceptions about tippets arose because 19th
> century costume scholars had very few materials to work with. Many of them
> did not have the opportunity to examine much medieval artwork directly,
> and there was no photoreproduction or color printing. Some authors worked
> only from published engravings and line drawings in earlier books. So they
> tended to see only certain images, and to see them in isolation and in
> altered form. If your only exposure to tippets is through a handful of
> brass rubbings, a few well-known sculptures, and some line drawings based
> on manuscript illuminations -- all monochrome media -- those flat white
> areas could be just about anything. No wonder they talked about bands of
> "white linen" and "white silk."

Granted.  Most 19th c. sources are pure bunk when discussing or depicting the 
Middle Ages.  My recollections are primarily of (color) reproductions of 
miniatures and some redrawings, but I'd need to go back and actively look for 
period art to test my memory.  

I'm not trying to argue with you.  I still think your theory is logical and 
fits the known facts, such as they are, better than any other I can think of.  
And I really appreciate the effort you put into this reply; thank you very 
much for it.   I'm just trying to figure out why something still bothers me 
about it, that's all.  



> > I have seen pictures showing them on what looks like a sleeve where
> > the top and bottom are of the same color, but it's possible (quite
> > likely, in fact)  that the images I'm thinking of were incorrectly
> > colored re-drawings...
>
> ...particularly if the person doing the coloring was operating under the
> assumption of a bound band over a long sleeve. The colorist may have had
> little understanding of the fashion. I had a rude shock when I compared
> two copies of a seminal costume book (Bonnard) from the early 1800s. The
> plates, copied from medieval art, were hand-colored for the printed
> editions ... and the colors varied quite capriciously from one copy to the
> other, apparently reflecting the whim of the colorist, not any reflection
> of the original colors of the artwork being copied. 

Which the colorist might never even have seen, for all we know.  :-(

>This book, as it
> happens, was used as the basis of research by quite a few later costume
> researchers.

Sigh.  I wonder just how often that has happened over the years. Probably more 
often than we'd like to think.


> > I have one other problem with the "tippets as fur lined pendant
> > sleeves"  theory.  The pictures of tippets/pendant sleeves I've seen
> > simply don't appear to hang as though they were made out of something
> > as heavy as fur (the short pendants in the Christine de Pisan
> > miniature are an exception to this rule, but they're also much shorter
> > than most tippets).  I would greatly appreciate hearing your thoughts
> > on this point.
>
> Two words: Trimmed fur. Since they were lining entire garments in it, we
> can be sure it was clipped pretty close.

Thanks for the info, but that doesn't exactly address what was troubling me.

No matter how short the pile is on a piece of fur, the foundation is not a 
woven material, it's *skin*.  Pieces of leather or fur have a different 
"hand" than any kind of woven material, no matter how heavy it is.  But the 
only tippets pictured that looked like fur are on the lady in black and white 
in the Tres Riches Heures....

-- 
Cathy "nees to start looking at Gothic art more seriously now" Raymond 


"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:05:38 +1100 (EST)
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 --- Catherine Olanich Raymond 
wrote: > On Wednesday 27 November 2002 12:21 am, Robin
> Netherton wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Catherine Olanich Raymond
> wrote:
> [question by COR cut here.  Robin responded:]
> 
> > It helps to look at these in the context of fur
> use in garments in this
> > period. Documentary sources provide ample evidence
> for fur linings,
> > particularly of upper-class garments. Bear in mind
> that the fur was
> > typically trimmed close, not shaggy like most fur
> or fake fur today. 
> 
> I would not, in any event, expect a shaggy fur to be
> used to line fine silk or 
> wool garments, even if we assume the climate was
> much colder than it is 
> today.


Hi, I haven't been paying close attention to this
thread so it is quite possible you are discussing
garments of a particular time and place, but this
example of fur-lining on an Italian silk ropa circa
1551 seems to me to be quite shaggy:

http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona/countesslivia.JPG

Not that this is relevant as such, it's just a chance
to share one of my favourite Veronese portraits. :)


Bella

http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper
- Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper!
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:05:33 -0700
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Naw.  I like World History a lot better than US or Montana history.
--Sue (world citizen whose passport happens to say "USA")

N Kipar wrote:
> 
>  --- Lalah T Tillinghast  wrote: >
> 
> >         Depends on how much you liked history in school.  American
> > History was a whole bunch easier than World History.
> 
> *laughs* Now THAT is very true :-)
> 
>
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At 7:30 PM +0000 11/27/02, Jean Waddie wrote:
>Audrey Bergeron-Morin  wrote
>>>When I travel to another country, I do make an effort to have at least a
>>>few basic phrases of the language, at least enough to say "excuse me" when
>>>I bump into someone on the street. (In England, the term for this seems to
>>>be "Sorry," which gets me very strange looks here in the US.)
>>
>>What are you supposed to say in the US? "Excuse me"? I usually say "Sorry".
>>I'm in Canada, but I'm French-speaking (in a bilingual city), so I might
>>have been using the wrong expression for years...
>>
>>Does anyone know what the norm is in Montreal? ;-)
>
>In the UK it's usually "Sorry" for bumping someone, "Excuse me" 
>would be a request to get through, or an apology for inadvertent 
>bodily noises. But I remember saying "Pardon" to people for about a 
>week after coming back from a trip to France.  "Pardon" in the UK 
>meaning could you repeat that, please.

When I've traveled in Europe -- especially when I'm in more touristy 
contexts -- I tend to use "Pardon" as an all-purpose expression no 
matter where I am because I can't always assume that the person I'm 
bumping into or trying to get the attention of is a native anyway! 
At the very least, the essential function of "politely apologetic 
noise" will tend to be conveyed successfully.  "Pardon" might mark me 
out as a foreigner, but at least I intend it to mark me out as a 
polite foreigner.

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Nov 27 22:40:56 2002
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
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Subject: Thanks you Linda - was Re: [h-cost] Pattern Upsize Location Online
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Linda,

Thank you for your time in posting it.

Lisa Sinervo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda J. Thompson" 

> Hi,
> For those that missed it.  The instructions for the pattern upsizing are
online at my site.
> http://www.seams-to-be.com/instructions/grade.htm
> --
> Linda Thompson
>



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From: "Allison Thurman" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Regency corsets?
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I am looking into the possibility of making a Regency-style outfit (gown
with turban and either pelisse or spencer - haven't decided yet) and would
like to use a commercial pattern in the interest of saving time. I'm
interested in the La Mode Bagatelle package
(http://lamodebagatelle.com/regency.htm), but I've noticed that this package
includes a bodice petticoat instead of a full corset.

My questions are:

1) Is there any benefit in terms of in searching for a proper 1800-1820
corset pattern, or will this bodice petticoat provide the correct period
silhouette (I'm not as concerned that the underpinnings be historically
accurate as no one's going to look up my dress, but I do want the shaping to
be right).

2) If not, can anyone recommend a good corset pattern for this period? I
have looked at the pattern described in "Waisted Efforts" but not only is it
too late for my target time period (I'm thinking War of 1812; the patterns
in "W.E." skip from the 1790s to 1827) but it's also beyond my abilities.

Thanks in advance,

Allison

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Regency corsets?





I am looking into the possibility of making a =
Regency-style outfit (gown with turban and either pelisse or spencer - =
haven't decided yet) and would like to use a commercial pattern in the =
interest of saving time. I'm interested in the La Mode Bagatelle package =
(http://lamodebagatelle.co=
m/regency.htm), but I've noticed that this package includes a bodice =
petticoat instead of a full corset.



My questions are:




1) Is there any benefit in terms of in searching for a =
proper 1800-1820 corset pattern, or will this bodice petticoat provide =
the correct period silhouette (I'm not as concerned that the =
underpinnings be historically accurate as no one's going to look up my =
dress, but I do want the shaping to be right).



2) If not, can anyone recommend a good corset pattern =
for this period? I have looked at the pattern described in "Waisted =
Efforts" but not only is it too late for my target time period (I'm =
thinking War of 1812; the patterns in "W.E." skip from the =
1790s to 1827) but it's also beyond my abilities.



Thanks in advance,




Allison





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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, Bella 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shaggy fur linings (was Tippets)
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On Wednesday 27 November 2002 09:05 pm, Bella wrote:
>  --- Catherine Olanich Raymond 
> wrote: >

[text cut here]

> Hi, I haven't been paying close attention to this
> thread so it is quite possible you are discussing
> garments of a particular time and place, but this
> example of fur-lining on an Italian silk ropa circa
> 1551 seems to me to be quite shaggy:
>
> http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona/countesslivia.JPG


It does, but it's a bit later in time than the Gothic fashions we were 
discussing.

Thanks for the image, though.

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From: "Janet Davis" 
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: rabbit fur
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>I've seen reasonable quality pelts (roughly 24 cm by 16
cm) for $3-$5 U.S. Unfortunately, the store I saw those at closed years ago,
so I don't know where I'd go for bunny fur nowadays.

Pennsic - This past summer at least 2 merchants had bunny pelts at $2 apiece
(however I did not inspect for quality, as I decided I really didn't NEED
any more bunny fur right now.)

Janet

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On Wednesday 27 November 2002 11:39 pm, Janet Davis wrote:
> >I've seen reasonable quality pelts (roughly 24 cm by 16
>
> cm) for $3-$5 U.S. Unfortunately, the store I saw those at closed years
> ago, so I don't know where I'd go for bunny fur nowadays.
>
> Pennsic - This past summer at least 2 merchants had bunny pelts at $2
> apiece (however I did not inspect for quality, as I decided I really didn't
> NEED any more bunny fur right now.)

I'm sure.  But, unfortunately, I've never been to Pennsic.  Sigh.  

Thanks for the tip.

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "sorry" vs. "excuse me"
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>In England, especially London, I found
that people just barrel down the road bumping into people and saying
"sorry," very fast, every few seconds.

This is quite funny to me as I think of London as full of forigners :) It
isn't normal in my experiance for the rest of England to just bump into
people, heavens no !!

>On the other hand, I found people in England VERY scrupulous about going up
and down public stairs on the correct sides.

Again a London thing I think, I get terribily confussed by it !

Mel

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets
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Just a quick reply, as I'm in the throes of preparing to serve
Thanksgiving dinner for 11 people tomorrow...

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:

> I don't remember seeing that many illustrations of white bordered
> hems...

Fur borders of perhaps 6 inches or so are really quite common in the
period in which tippets were worn, and appear often in combination with
tippets. In the Guillaume de Machaut manuscripts (often reproduced in
costume books as examples of tippets, and fairly early in the tippet
timespan), nearly every woman has a white border at the hem that has the
same painting treatment as the tippets. The borders also frequently appear
in sculptures and brasses of this same time-slice. There are several in
the Tres Riches Heures, which you mentioned you have, so you can see them
there.

> Very little of my review of artwork for the period was performed
> online; most of it was done before the invention of the Web.  
> However, my bad memory may be a factor too--Gothic has never been one
> of my major periods of interest.  :-)

That's quite understandable. I think you might be surprised if you have a
chance to sit down with a few good focused books on 14th and early 15th
century illumination.

> > ...Over time, you're more likely to
> > get reasonably good renderings of the fur texture in a more realistic
> > fashion, showing its hairy surface or fluffy edges. The Limbourg brothers
> > were good at this; get a good reproduction (not a scan!) of the Tres
> > Riches Heures for some examples, including some fur tippets in the April
> > calendar page. (That happens to be the first image in which I noticed that
> > tippets were fur, as the rendering is undeniable. 
> 
> I would not go so far as to say "undeniable".  In fact, until the
> discussion in this thread I did not realize that the woman in black
> with the deep blue underdress (which I assume is the woman with
> tippets to whom you're referring) was wearing tippets at all-- I
> assumed her overdress had hanging sleeves with wide white trim.
> Looking at it now, I can see that there is grass visible between the
> edge of her left tippet and the outline of her torso.  

I think you may benefit from a better reproduction. The woman is actually
in deep blue, with an ultramarine-blue underdress. There are a lot of bad
repros out there, alas. My full facsimile (Braziller paperback ed. 1989)
has wretched color reproduction. The pictures are fuzzy and lose a great
deal of detail, leaving many surfaces flat to the eye. If you've got this
book or one of similar quality, I can see that the fur use wouldn't be
nearly so evident. Interestingly, my cheap picture-book version, bought on
remainder in 1979 or so for a song (Crescent books, no date, printed in
Italy) has crisp reproductions and excellent color.

> (Though the artist kind of screwed up , because if the opening were
> genuinely that big, she'd have to be emaciated or have a hole in her
> torso or something...)

Yeah, even for the Limbourgs, who carried the Gothic Slouch to the
extreme, she's a little off. If you compare her to the woman in black
riding in the August scene, you can parse out what they were intending;
the problem may have been in her bent-over position.

> Maybe the lesson here is that it takes more visual education than even
> you have presumed assumed to realize that what's being depicted in a
> miniature, even one of the finer ones such as the Tres Riches Heures,
> is fur instead of fabric....

Maybe so. I have spent so long looking at this style of painting, and
focusing on this particular period, it's easy for me to forget how my eye
interpreted certain things before I had so much experience with it.

> That brings me to my other problem, which is would a fur or fur-lined
> piece hang the way tippets are shown to hang in medieval art?  (I'd
> have the same problem with the "tippet as brocade" hypothesis>)  Upon
> reflection, I agree with you that the answer is "yes" for the woman
> shown on the April page of the Tres Riches Heures, but that
> representation is different from any other picture of a woman in a
> tippet I've ever seen.

Is it? I think people often expect tippets to be light and "fluttery."
Perhaps that's because tippets are often depicted that way in redrawings
by artists trying to be "realistic" in a modern style, or because we
expect they will be based on the assumption that they're fabric, or
because we've seen them that way in (fabric) reproduction costumes. But in
the sources, tippets tend to hang straight down. They don't twist on
themselves or curve or sway. They have some substance and weight. The TRH
April lady's tippets, which drape over her hip, are wider than most of
those that appear earlier (e.g. Machaut) but they're not unusual. A very
similar look appears, for instance, in figure 30 (a wedding scene,
Parement master, 1380 France) in _Margaret Scott's Visual History of
Fashion: 14th and 15th centuries_ -- to just grab the first available book
on my shelf.

> Granted.  Most 19th c. sources are pure bunk when discussing or
> depicting the Middle Ages.  My recollections are primarily of (color)
> reproductions of miniatures and some redrawings, but I'd need to go
> back and actively look for period art to test my memory.

You'll have fun doing that, I think, if you haven't seen the works for a
while. I have often found myself surprised when I go back to something I
thought I knew well to discover some substantially new visual reading that
had gone right by me earlier, because my eyes weren't well enough
developed the last time I saw it.

> I'm not trying to argue with you.  I still think your theory is
> logical and fits the known facts, such as they are, better than any
> other I can think of.  And I really appreciate the effort you put into
> this reply; thank you very much for it.  I'm just trying to figure out
> why something still bothers me about it, that's all.

If you still feel that after you've taken a closer look at the sources,
please let me know. If my logic doesn't hold up for someone, I want to
know that -- that may mean I have to rethink something.

 
> >This book, as it
> > happens, was used as the basis of research by quite a few later costume
> > researchers.
> 
> Sigh.  I wonder just how often that has happened over the years.
> Probably more often than we'd like to think.

This has actually been a major focus in my research. I do a lecture on the
development of errors in costume sources going back to the Victorians and
earlier. As part of this, I take a piece of medieval artwork and show how
a series of costume historians interpreted/redrew it over the course of a
century or so, each basing his work on the previous writers. It's like a
game of telephone, as the changes stack up incrementally. By the time
you're five or six steps away from the original, the differences are
enormous.

> "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
>  --Flannery O'Connor

I love this.

--Robin


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From: "Herself-the-Elf" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question.
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 01:17:45 -0500
Status: RO

Well now that I've pretty much solved my dress problem, I'm wondering about
my guy.  I don't think he's likely to want to wear a houppelande or some
such, and definitely not the silly shoes.  So I'm trying to think of
something different that would still be period.  He's got dark skin, so I
was thinking maybe a nifty Moorish costume of some sort.  Does anybody have
any information on Moorish (or any middle-eastern/North African) costume of
this era?

-- Maral

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] De-lurking...with a medieval question.


> I think tippets are an acquired taste, very strange to modern eyes, and
> incredibly impractical but they do create a movement almost like a dancer
> with ribbons which can be beautiful especially if worn by a group.  Maybe
I
> just like the fourteenth century.  I actually developed a liking for my
> plats that hung from my circlet in a way that made me look like a Swiss
> yodeler and initially I thought that would be reason enough to say away
from
> the time period entirely.   Anyway, my best wishes with your gown and your
> wedding tool
>
> Lisa
>
> From: "Herself-the-Elf" 
> > Hmm, thanks everybody!  The Tres Riches Heures pictures offer some
> variety,
> > which is good as I'm not overly fond of tippets.
> >
> > -- Maral
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 01:19:39 2002
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:22:39 -0800
Status: RO

Karen:

Can I get your last name, to attribute it to you, if you don't mind?

Thanks again.


-- Wayne
"One Tough Costumer"


See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at
margospatterns.com
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:43:46 -0600
Status: RO

Karen Bergquist


I don't know if you've been to my web site, but you are welcome to visit

http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/

Check out my dress diary- 'To Dress A Queen'- it's my latest project.

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:54:53 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- Catherine Olanich Raymond  wrote: > On Tuesday 26
November 2002 05:45 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote:
> > My Barbie had costumes made by me, and went on jungle adventures.....I
> > was such an odd child.
> 
> My Barbie dolls had some costumes made by me, some of which were historical 
> and others which were not.
> 
> I see a pattern developing here....

Ohhh yes! Say, who else had barbie dolls and made costumes for them? BTW, I am
praying that my godchild will be a girl, because I have that fantastic Burda
magazine chockerfull with historic costumes for Barbie dolls and Ken men, you
should see the medievalesque costumes! (how the middle ages SHOULD have been
and are in fairy tales). Phuleeeeze!! A girl, a girl, a girl!!!

*grins*

Nicole - who made a posh outfit for her Barbie for the occasion of Lady Di's
and Prince Charles' wedding in 1981 *blech* :-)

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:57:10 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- Catherine Olanich Raymond  wrote: > On Wednesday 27 
> >A friend who has cut it for use in costume
> > said she was sneezing and coughing up wisps of bunny
> > fur for days afterwards -- it really likes to migrate
> > through the air once cut.
> 
> Wow.  Sounds darn dangerous to me.  I've never tried to cut bunny fur in any 
> significant amounts, though I've often thought about starting a project that 
> might require doing so.

I agree! I used bunny fur on my 1660s Dutch jacket (the black velvet one with
the white fur edging) and I sneezed and scratched and itched and coughed all
the time, bunny fur likes to travel everywhere, even when just cutting the
pieces, after that experience I would never try to cut the pile. Be careful,
particularly if you are prone to any kind of allergies!

Nicole

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:03:45 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- STRAIGHT   wrote: >    
>      The "vikings" had a "permanent" settlement, which is quite well known
> and documented, and they traveled around and south quite a bit also.

??? Hang on a minute, I thought that was a hoax! 
Anyone got some verifyable info on that? Sources? Evidence? Infoooooooo
pleeeeeease! :-)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: NZ and LotR Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:09:08 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- michaela  wrote: > > 
> Actually just putting together a copy of Eowyn's white dress from The Two
> Towers. Really fun to put together as it has no shaping seams but the side
> and centre back. And blerg the only way to close it is an invisible zip as
> it is not fitting enough to use hooks and eyes or lacing (using rings as
> there are no stitched on the outside of the dress.

Ohhhhh, I was about to make one too! Well, actually, not befiore I haven't got
my new Victorian type corset. Actually, I didn't want to make a copy, just what
I thought I wanted it to look like. I am very much looking forward to pictures
of yours! And may I ask the odd question on how you did it when you are done?
*G*

> I'm trying to work out what era it might pass for...  ah well it's pretty
> that's all I care for;)

I can tell you, it's pretty simple: PreRaphaelites. It is an almost exact copy
of 'The Lady of Shalott' by John Wiliam Waterhouse. When I saw the first photos
of the dress it struck me as awfully familair, and indeed it is:

http://bertc.com/waterhouse_6.htm

I LOVE the PreRaphaelites.

Nicole

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Email: nicole@kipar.org

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>My Barbie had costumes made by me, and went on jungle adventures.....I
> > > was such an odd child.


>Ohhh yes! Say, who else had barbie dolls and made costumes for them?

>Nicole - who made a posh outfit for her Barbie for the occasion of Lady 
>Di's
>and Prince Charles' wedding in 1981 *blech*

My Barbie's had costumes and furniture and housewares(rugs, quilts,etc.) all 
from my little imagination.  When I first started selling my costumes my 
daughter was 8 and so I took lots of scraps and made about two dozen Barbie 
Garb gowns and sold them for $2ea.  The little girls loved having something 
to look at while Mom tried on that dress and I even made little fancy wire 
hangers that were included with the gowns.  It was a phase...it passed.  
Maybe when my two nieces get into Barbie range.


Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!



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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie dolls costumes, was Re: body type periods,
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Do tell?  What fantastic Burda book, and how can the rest of us get one?

>that fantastic Burda
>magazine chockerfull with historic costumes for Barbie dolls and Ken men, you
>should see the medievalesque costumes! (how the middle ages SHOULD have been
>and are in fairy tales).




Kayta

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Subject: [h-cost] Dickens' Fair discount tickets
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We participants, of the Northern California Dickens' Fair, are encouraged 
to arrange Participant's Discount Tickets for our friends.  I don't know 
exactly how many e-friends there are on this list, but I can certainly 
arrange PDTs for you if you like, and have them waiting for you to buy at 
Will Call (as in, you don't need to do the money thing till you get there, 
no obligation).  I think PDTs are $15 this year, where full price ones are 
$20.  Don't know either price for kids but I'll find out this Saturday.

We run every Saturday and Sunday from now till December 22nd.  Let me know, 
off-list, how many and which weekend, by the preceding Friday so I have 
time to arrange for them.

Obligatory costume content:  In general, Dickens' Fair does 1840 to 
1860ish.  ACW clothes are fine, as are ACW uniforms.  Some groups at 
Dickens' Fair, like the Adventurer's Club, do later than 1860, so we always 
have Wild West folks show up, male and female.  The daily costume contest 
tries to cut off at 1865, as none of the participants will be wearing 
bustles.  If you want to dance all day at Fezziwig's, it is not necessary 
to wear historical costume, since we concentrate on dancing with customers, 
and nothing looks more like a customer than someone in a t-shirt-and-jeans 
costume.  But feel free to wear your historical costumes if you want - 
we'll still dance with you.  The more good historicals there, the better, IMHO.

I'm Mrs. Foote, the Fezziwig's Cockney cook, if you want to meet me in person.

Kayta

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I had a barbie doll and I made costumes for her.  No doubt I would cringe at
em now.

When I was 7 or so, I made a tunic of two pieces of fabric and  ran around
in the fields by my house pretending I was someone from the bible. I think
that would be my first historic costume.

> Ohhh yes! Say, who else had barbie dolls and made costumes for them?

Susan in bellevue

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Mel wrote:

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk 11/27/02 06:25pm >>>
Ah another one, which few in England follow now, you don't bite the bread
but tear small pieces off it

I'd already mentioned that; it's said to have originated because leftover bread from richer mediaeval tables was given to the poor, so it was more considerate for the original diner not to bite into it.



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 04:36:40 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Re:regency corsets
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I've looked for some definitive information on Regency corsets before and 
come to the conclusion that there isn't any. Some women (the brave ones) 
abandoned their corsets altogether, and I've read descriptions of a sort of 
tight-bodiced petticoat to keep everything in place that seem to be what La 
Mode Bagatelle is offering. Some women seem to have worn a very short 
version of the late 18th-C corset. Having said that, in the BBC version of 
Pride & Prejudice (1995) you can sometimes see the bottom edge of a long 
corset around hip-level under Elizabeth Bennett's gowns. I've been unable to 
trace any sources offering pictures of anything similar at this time period, 
but I can't imagine the BBC would have done it if they hadn't had a period 
source for it. However, I'd be happy that the pattern you're looking at will 
give you the right shape – that's the great thing about Regency is you can 
wear nothing underneath (support-wise) and still look period (you just have 
to be one of the more daring and highly fashionable ladies of the time). 
It's the shape of the bodice that's important, esp the shaping at the back.

I've used Jennie Chancey's Regency Gown pattern from www.sensibility.com and 
it's very good – it's not a whole wardrobe though. Jessamyn's Regency 
Costume Companion is also useful – 
http://www.songsmyth.com/costumerscompanion.html

Hope this helps,

Kate



>From: "Allison Thurman" 
>Subject: [h-cost] Regency corsets?
>
>I am looking into the possibility of making a Regency-style outfit (gown
>with turban and either pelisse or spencer - haven't decided yet) and would
>like to use a commercial pattern in the interest of saving time. I'm
>interested in the La Mode Bagatelle package
>(http://lamodebagatelle.com/regency.htm), but I've noticed that this 
>package
>includes a bodice petticoat instead of a full corset.
>
>My questions are:
>
>1) Is there any benefit in terms of in searching for a proper 1800-1820
>corset pattern, or will this bodice petticoat provide the correct period
>silhouette (I'm not as concerned that the underpinnings be historically
>accurate as no one's going to look up my dress, but I do want the shaping 
>to
>be right).
>
>2) If not, can anyone recommend a good corset pattern for this period? I
>have looked at the pattern described in "Waisted Efforts" but not only is 
>it
>too late for my target time period (I'm thinking War of 1812; the patterns
>in "W.E." skip from the 1790s to 1827) but it's also beyond my abilities.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Allison
>


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie dolls costumes, was Re: body type periods,
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 --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows  wrote: > Do tell?  What fantastic
Burda book, and how can the rest of us get one?

Oh Kayta, I don't know if they still make it. I will check at home and have a
;lok at the mag when I bought it. It was one of these moments of 'oh heck, one
never knows, ione day I MIGHT have reasons to make costumes for Barbies again'
when I bought it a few years ago.

I tried to find it on their website http://www.burda.de but I'm afraid it's not
a very good web site and I couldn't find it. I'll have  alook tonight!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:39:11 +0000
Status: RO

Kat wrote; [snip]
> Roman teeth only showed a 7% rate of 
>cavities although they had illness and inadequate diet problems as 
>well (hypoplastic teeth) 

What are hypoplastic teeth?
This all goes along with what Robin said about teeth being 
*relatively* good until the diet changed so that cavities become much 
more frequent.

>Then you add to that things like constant bottles with juice or milk 
>or constant breastfeeding (which a medieval mom wouldn't have done 
>like we do now), and you have even *more* cavities.

I know nothing about babies, but are you saying that breastfeeding causes tooth decay? And wouldn't it have been *more* common in mediaeval times than today?


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Gail wrote:
> In England, especially London, I found
>that people just barrel down the road bumping into people and saying
>"sorry," very fast, every few seconds.

I would consider this rude too! - though I can imagine that in a crowded London street it must be a temptation for an energetic person in a hurry.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Nicole wrote:
>Ohhh yes! Say, who else had barbie dolls and made costumes for them? 

I had (pre-Barbie) teenage dolls and made modern clothes for them, rather crudely sewn. I didn't become interested in historical costume until later.


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Subject: Re: NZ and LotR Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:04:29 +1300
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Hi All,

Nicole wrote, about "Eowyn's white dress":
> I can tell you, it's pretty simple: PreRaphaelites. It is an almost
> exact copy of 'The Lady of Shalott' by John Wiliam Waterhouse. 

I'm not sure whether the dress you're talking about is the one that I've 
seen in publicity shots. The one I've seen has a white dress with a 
sleeve that looks like it's taken from "The Accolade" by Edmund Blair 
Leighton, and a brown-ish corselet-type thing that looks like one of 
those bad attempts to recreate 12th-century "bliaut"-style dresses. 
It's still pretty, but I envisaged something a bit more Anglo-Saxon 
and, er, richly practical. I'm looking forward to seeing the film.

Cheers,
  Jennifer

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>I'd already mentioned that; it's said to have originated because leftover
bread from richer mediaeval tables was given to the poor, so it was more
considerate for the original diner not to bite into

Must have missed that hard disk crash etc. As I understand bread to the poor
it was soaked trenchers which would not be bitten into anyway I'd have
thought ? I always heard it was because stuffing your mouth full of bread
looked poor :) as in not refined

Interesting either way !

Mel


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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Regency corsets?
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Dear Allison,

    The La Mode Bagatelle pattern is an excellent one, one which we carry in
our repetoire of patterns. Having said that, no, in my opinion, the
bodice/chemise in the pattern does not give the entirely correct silhouette.
To be truthful I do use the bodice/chemise myself for those 'moon days' when
I'm re-enacting. Otherwise I use my corset from the Mantua Maker 1800-1820
Corset - another excellent pattern which we carry. It is surprising how your
silhouette changes when you wear it. The pattern is historically accurate,
well-engineered, with good sewing instructions for both boning and cording.

    Having said that, you're then going to need the correct chemise to wear
under the corset, as the bodice/chemise from the LMB pattern isn't going to
be comfortable nor fit correctly under the corset. What I recommend to
clients is the Kannik's Korner Women's Shift 1790-1820. I also use this
pattern for my personal Regency wardrobe, and have found it historically
accurate, good sewing instructions and well-engineered.

    You can view, and purchase if you wish, all three patterns through our
secure, online catalogue. URL in tagline.

Regards
Lorina
Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
supplies
(519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org  email:
info@5rivers.org


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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:32:22 GMT
Status: RO

Melanie Wilson  wrote :

> >I'd already mentioned that; it's said to have originated because leftover
> bread from richer mediaeval tables was given to the poor, so it was more
> considerate for the original diner not to bite into
> 
> Must have missed that hard disk crash etc. As I understand bread to the poor
> it was soaked trenchers which would not be bitten into anyway I'd have
> thought ? 

My guess would be that there was an intervening period when left-over *food* was given to the poor? (Come to think of it, that was what happened all along: only the phasing out of trenchers made a difference). Most food, you'd cut off a mouth-sized portion rather than biting a bit and putting the rest back on your plate anyway, surely? Trying to think of exceptions: chicken wings and things, where you can't sensibly use a knife to take portions (well, not till the fork was invented).




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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: NZ and LotR Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:42:46 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Jennifer Geard  wrote: > Hi All,
> 
> Nicole wrote, about "Eowyn's white dress":
> > I can tell you, it's pretty simple: PreRaphaelites. It is an almost
> > exact copy of 'The Lady of Shalott' by John Wiliam Waterhouse. 
> 
> I'm not sure whether the dress you're talking about is the one that I've 
> seen in publicity shots. The one I've seen has a white dress with a 
> sleeve that looks like it's taken from "The Accolade" by Edmund Blair 
> Leighton, and a brown-ish corselet-type thing that looks like one of 
> those bad attempts to recreate 12th-century "bliaut"-style dresses. 
> It's still pretty, but I envisaged something a bit more Anglo-Saxon 
> and, er, richly practical. I'm looking forward to seeing the film.

Nope, it is NOT the awful pullover-jumper type thingy in brown, but the white
dress, see here:

http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/4981

I think it's seriously lovely because it is totally fantasy, and, as I said
PreRaphaleite. Honestly, you wouldn't want the heorine in Anglo-Saxon dress, no
matter if pre- or post Christian in my opinion. I have them, I know them, I
wear them, and they are NOT flattering. I hate wearing any kind of Anglo-saxon,
I feel like looking like a fat sausage. *G*

Nicole - corset/stays-lover

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:05:48 -0000
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>My guess would be that there was an intervening period when left-over
*food* was given to the poor?

Without looking into it it would be complete guess work & so far from
costume it dosen't really belong on this list. Interesting though it is :)

Mel
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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Subject: Re: history on yer doorstep, was Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures 
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----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: history on yer doorstep, was Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior
and cultures


> --- Dianne and Greg Stucki  wrote: >
 It's about going out of your doorstep
> and it's there, everywhere. Farmer's fields that are happily ploughed
around a
> barrow or an early medieval ruin (quite a few here in Kent); or so many
> historic buildings of many different hundreds of years that you don't even
know
> which ones to choose to visit. I think we here take it all for granted, to
> picnic on a prehistoric flint mine and then have lunch in a Napolenic fort
and
> all on the same land *L*).

That part I DO envy you. I would love to see Europe someday. I also envy you
the fact that people DO plow their fields around a barrow, rather than just
digging it up. Though I think we're making an effort to improve, the US is
still far too much a "throw-away" society.
>
> I DO envy you, the Canadians, the Australians, and the New Zealanders the
> LOOOOOOOOADS of empty space and land. Though, if I could choose, I would
always
> stay where I am, in Europe, some places mopre and some places less
cramped,
> depends where you go :-)

I thought the Snake River in the Grand Teton mountain range in Montana was
one of the most beautiful places in the world.  But a fall day in Michigan,
not far from a decent city, where you're surrounded by miles of blazing
color, and the sky is so blue it breaks your heart, is pretty awesome too!
>
> Say, is this why it seems that people tend mostly to join the huge
society, the
> SCA, and not found smaller local ones that specialise in certain periods
> (before the 18th century) because you have no locality to tie it to? Just
a
> thought, I'm ever curious.

Well....possibly. But the SCA was founded here in California. I think it's
just easier to work within an already established framework.

I live very near Gettysburg, and I think I'm going to start looking for the
local ACW group as well!

Dianne
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>

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From: Kevin + Mara 
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:25:38 -0500
Status: RO

At 10:51 PM 11/24/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>Well, actually, I don't think the facial types were anywhere near as
>heterogenous in historical periods as in the past century, which has had
>far more transience and cultural intermarriage than any preceding era.
>
>Historically, certain facial and body types and coloring would be typical
>of certain countries and regions. Fashions of those countries/regions
>would then develop to suit those facial and body types. The gene pool
>issue is probably an important factor in the differences in regional
>styles -- particularly headdress -- from, say, Northern to Southern
>Europe, or Eastern to Western.

Point taken!
Actually, within my own family, you can see various influences -- my middle 
sister has a distinctly Scottish style of face, from Mom's side of the 
family, whereas my youngest sister and I seem to take after my Dad's side 
of the family, which has more German and English.  Jeanne has a particular 
eye shape that I think looks very distinctively Scottish; it's hard to 
describe, but it's sort of a downward pull at the outer edge.

But you're right, if you look at films from various regions of Europe (for 
example, I was taking a Gaelic class, and we watched videos filmed on the 
west coast and islands of Scotland, and they all have that eye shape) and 
there definitely are distinctive facial types.

I think that the U.S. has (or had) its own regionalisms -- I think 
Southerners look different, not just in dress but also in posture and 
facial type.  Lots of Scots-Irish influence.  My relatives on that side of 
the family are very different looking from my relatives in 
Cincinnati.  This is probably disappearing, along with some regional 
accents, now that everyone moves around so much.

-- Mara

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:28:33 -0500
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At 08:16 AM 11/25/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Actually Robin, I completely disagree. I can tell most of the time (unless the
>person comes from a distinct genetic ethnic background, like Asian etc.) when
>someone is American. It is NOT because of being heterogenous, on the contrary,
>there is a look about them, which - please don't kill me I don't mean that
>nastily - looks like a plasticky Barbie doll to me. The faces looked just 
>plain
>wrong in the historic clothing (so does mine, unless I do a Russian or polish
>type, similar to you. I can do a Byzantine Queen *hey, now that's a 
>thought!*)

That's not genes, dear, that's too much makeup!  

Cheers,
Mara (an American who seldom wears makeup)

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: body type periods,
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:37:37 -0500
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(catching up on old mail)
My hubby and I painted our bedroom red -- the same color as a Swiss Army 
Knife handle, since I held Kevin's knife up to the wall and it matched 
.  We have an oak floor, and white ceiling and trim, so that lightens 
the effect quite a bit.  I tried putting a red bedspread on the bed and it 
was just overpowering; a bedspread with a lot of white and some other light 
colors (like yellow) works better.

We get a lot of sun here (I live near Washington, DC) in the summer, but 
that room is on the north side of the house, so that helps keep the glare 
down.  I don't think I'd have used such a strong color in a room on the 
south side of the house.  We painted the living room, which gets a lot of 
sun, a gentle butter-yellow color; it looks very nice.

Yes, I can certainly believe that this applies to clothes, too.  Tweeds 
work pretty well in cloudy weather, they are so gentle and just blend in...
I know the weather affects what I feel like wearing on a particular day and 
will pick different colors if it's going to be rainy.

Cheers,
Mara

At 09:58 AM 11/25/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>If I may quickly add an observation here, this is realy very true what Sharon
>says. I speak not of costume colours here but the colour of my newly painted
>room, which is a very rich ruby red, which looks fantastic in far-too-often
>overcast and grey England, but I wonder what it will look like in summer,
>having the funny feeling it will look quite garish when the sun belts into the
>room. I decorated the room for 'winter' because it is more often overcast here
>than cloudless, and it has a wonderful feel to it, all red and christmas green
>and gold stencilled, but if I lived in Australia, I would have NEVER done 
>that,
>because of Sharon's observations.
>
>I believe indeed that the same/similar goes for costumes/clothes.
>
>Nicole

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 06:42:42 2002
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
To: 
References: <20021126.164528.-550151.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> <200211272000.51397.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:40:26 -0500
Status: RO

My Barbdie doll sewing was the fore-runner of my costuming. I used to take
my mom's scraps and fashion little outfits for Barbie.  When I grew up, this
expanded into handmade dolls, then quilts, and finally costuming.

Add in calligraphy, and you can understand why my house  is always a wreck!

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" 
To: ; 
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House


> On Tuesday 26 November 2002 05:45 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote:
> > My Barbie had costumes made by me, and went on jungle adventures.....I
> > was such an odd child.
>
> My Barbie dolls had some costumes made by me, some of which were
historical
> and others which were not.
>
> I see a pattern developing here....
> --
> Cathy Raymond 
>
> "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
>  --Flannery O'Connor
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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From: Kevin + Mara 
Subject: Re: body type periods, was Re: [h-cost] 1940s House
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:48:26 -0500
Status: RO

At 02:09 PM 11/25/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> > seem to smile more, and be a bit..hmm...brighter, louder, more
> > flamboyant, I can't quite put my finger on the word. They take up more
> > personal space.
>
>Uhm... well, we call that rude. Sorry, but, well, that's what most people I
>know think about American visitors and their behaviour. Too loud, too
>touchy-feely, too pushy, too brash etc. just because all of the above is
>considered to be impolite here (and in germany, I can only speak for two
>countries). Also, I may simply only know people who think as thus and loads
>other people may think completely differently. (snip)

Well, I think there are differences even with in America, when it comes to 
personal space and volume :)  My hubby is very typical Boston-Irish, and 
you'd probably find him all of the above: talkative, etc.  I figure it's 
just his regional upbringing.  He gets on my mom's nerves; she's from 
Alabama, and finds his Yankee ways (he's very direct) very annoying.  She 
gets on his nerves, as he finds her too subtle and indirect.  (Which is 
true; she won't come out and ask you to do something directly, but will 
hint at what she wants.)

I think I take after Dad's side of the family (Cincinnati English/German), 
which is more reserved, almost to the point of being taciturn.  I'm not a 
'hugger', and don't make 'instant friends' -- it takes me a while to warm 
up to people.  I'm sure people who come from more gregarious backgrounds, 
like Kevin's Boston Irish family, think I'm stand-offish until I get to 
know them enough to start talking to them.  I joke that I married Kevin so 
I'd never have to talk to strangers in public again; if he's along to break 
the ice, I can just stand back and watch.

One speculation about Americans' habit of taking up too much space is that 
it's because there is so much more space available here.

-- Mara

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Subject: [h-cost] Re: history on yer doorstep,
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:03:21 +0000
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Dianne wrote:
> I also envy you the fact that people DO plow their fields around a barrow, >rather than just digging it up. Though I think we're making an effort to >improve, the US is still far too much a "throw-away" society.
>
But conversely, I've heard that ACW battlefields are respected as historic sites, whereas in the UK, space being limited, that isn't always possible. (Also, previous generations were not so heritage-conscious, and there are an awful lot of sites of old battles!) There was an outcry some years ago when a new major road was planned to pass across part of the field of Naseby (1645); it was built, but at least there are now signs indicating where the battle site was.



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 07:34:47 2002
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Kate M Bunting  wrote :

> Dianne wrote:
> > I also envy you the fact that people DO plow their fields around a barrow,
> >rather than just digging it up. Though I think we're making an effort to
> >improve, the US is still far too much a "throw-away" society.
> >
> But conversely, I've heard that ACW battlefields are respected as historic
> sites, whereas in the UK, space being limited, that isn't always possible.

And of course with a lot of "old" stuff, we don't just leave it as a preserved monument because we're still using it. The best place to cross a river is where you still want to build your bridge, and the medieval pack-horse one that isn't wide enough may just have to go. Or have another one built next to it, and become single-lane. And while we're digging, we'll find the foundations of the Roman one that the Medievals scrapped as being too old and restrictive :)

Part of my route to see my parents takes me along the Icknield Way. That's a road that's been in continual use since Neolithic times, in parts. So the bit I drive along is now tarmac, but the next stretch, that's now a footpath, is just cobbles. A few layers down, they look like Roman cobbles to me (no expert).

I wonder if that's part of the difference we have in attitude to the history under our feet? It isn't "over there, in the past", we still feel we're part of a continual process that's been going on for thousands of years. The Icknield Way doesn't belong to "them", those people all those years ago, it belongs to "us", where "us" *includes* the past. (Looking at that, it isn't very well phrased, but you see what I mean?)

So if you find a bit of lace a few hundred years old, but in perfect condition, do you slap it in a musuem under humidity controls, or do you sew it on to a dress and go out dancing? Lace is scarce, so probably the former: but we have so many "historical" sites that we take the latter approach with them. And after all, castles and so on are tougher than lace :)







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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: history on yer doorstep,
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:52:20 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote: > 

> I wonder if that's part of the difference we have in attitude to the history
> under our feet? It isn't "over there, in the past", we still feel we're part
> of a continual process that's been going on for thousands of years. The
> Icknield Way doesn't belong to "them", those people all those years ago, it
> belongs to "us", where "us" *includes* the past. (Looking at that, it isn't
> very well phrased, but you see what I mean?)

It makes perfect sense to me. Everything around us is old and older and used
and reused and we still use it. The past is so near, it feels like the present,
it feels that wherever I drive there is something of historical significance,
and everytime I go somewhere places are being pointed out 'do you remember the
great battle of 'insert any set of numbers here' or 'look over there, that
stately home, built in the Georgan period after they torn the Elizabethan manor
down, because it wasn't modern enough' *L*

> So if you find a bit of lace a few hundred years old, but in perfect
> condition, do you slap it in a musuem under humidity controls, or do you sew
> it on to a dress and go out dancing? Lace is scarce, so probably the former:
> but we have so many "historical" sites that we take the latter approach with
> them. And after all, castles and so on are tougher than lace :)

Nope, the latter dear, the latter, if it is still useable. Lace, in fact, is
not scarce, surprisingly enough, at least smaller pieces. ;-)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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And I used bunny fur to trim the edge of a late 1300's  heraldic sideless 
surcote a long while ago----and we were still finding odd bits of bunny  fur 
a year later! As I worked on the project, tho,  I found that if I cut the fur 
 from behind--that is, the skin side ---with the scissors, I was less likely 
to produce tuffs of fur----:)  It was definitely a learning experience.
Albra
(now going back to lurking mode:)
PS--it's Thanksgiving Day in the States---Happy Thanksgiving , everyone!!
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:13:35 -0500
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At 05:29 PM 11/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>My sister does a lot of 1930's, and sometimes talks me into going to
>events.  While I love this period for other body types, I can't wear it
>myself without feeling like I look like that humorless woman from all the
>Marx Brothers movies.
>
>Margo
>"One Tough Costumer"

Yes, but without her to play off of, the movies wouldn't be nearly so 
funny!  Every comedy troupe needs a 'straight man', or in her case, 
'straight woman'.  I can't remember that actress's name, but apparently in 
person she was rather nice, charming and funny.

I know what you mean, though... I just got a book of photos from the 
1920s-40s, and the styles in the '30s just don't work on anyone with the 
least bit of hips; they just wind up looking like a sack of 
potatoes.  Tellingly, there's a photo of a man, dressed in Flapper style 
drag, along with a photo of him in normal male clothing.  If I hadn't been 
reading the captions, I'd have thought 'he' was a 'she' in the photo where 
he's wearing girl's clothes.  I guess having a 'boyish' figure really _was_ 
the ideal!

-- Mara

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From: Kevin + Mara 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:19:04 -0500
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At 05:34 PM 11/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Once when I was in england, I was mistaken for french ).  I walked into a
>cathedral and the person handing out the brochures tried to give me a french
>one.  Being an American with an almost exclusive anglo-saxon-celtic heritage
>(one french guy might have snuck in there where we weren't looking), I was
>bit surprized.  It may have been because I wasn't wearing the stereotypical
>jeans and t-shirt, but rather a skirt and top.
>
>Susan in bellevue

I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.  My sister was consistently mistaken 
for being a native by when she and her boyfriend were visiting France; her 
boyfriend was frequently mistaken for German when they were in Germany or 
Holland (he's from a community in Wisconsin settled by people from 
Belgium).  Sarah studied German in college, whereas Toby took French, so it 
became rather comical.

They made a point of not wearing blue jeans, t-shirts, or tennis shoes -- I 
think they wore khaki or corduroy pants and sweaters, mostly.  Both Sarah 
and Toby are rather reserved people, which probably helped as well.

-- Mara

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:29:22 -0500
Status: RO

I recently heard that dental decay is on the rise here in the U.S. among 
people who only drink bottled or filtered water, because it doesn't have 
any fluoride :)

Which makes me glad that I'm not quite that 'refined' yet.  Tap water is 
just fine for me, thanks!  Plus it's cheaper.

I have a good friend who has very period teeth -- lots of gaps.  I think 
he's hesitant to get them worked on -- something to do with diabetes, 
maybe?  It's not pretty.  Fortunately his mustache covers his mouth enough 
that it's not something one notices right away.  No, thanks, I think that's 
one area where I'm content NOT to be very authentic!  And I saw a lot of 
working-class people in Maine, when I visited there in October, with gaps 
in their teeth.  That's rather unusual here in the DC area.

Speaking of money -- someone mentioned that they were expected to say stuff 
about money that Europeans found they couldn't voice themselves.  I think 
that's another American trait -- we're not (usually) afraid to talk about 
money, whereas elsewhere it's probably considered quite crass.  I was 
raised to think it was crass, but find that I've grown less timid about it, 
talking about bargains I've found online etc.

-- Mara

At 07:57 AM 11/26/2002 +0100, you wrote:
> >> Out of curiosity - are there places in Europe that add fluoride to
> >> their drinking water? It's done all over the US as a way to improve
> >> dental health...
> >
> > Yes, they do that in the UK, too (if you count us as
> > part of Europe?). Can't speak for other countries.
>But not in Germany - fluoride is considered one of those underestimated
>environmental poisons. It is not even in all the different brands of
>toothpaste, especially natural food store toothpaste. I get lots of
>compliments on my white teeth here in Germany, while an incredible number of
>friends around my age (36) and sometimes in their 20's have gapes where
>teeth have been removed or/and are getting crowns (can we count this as
>costume content? ;), conditions that I don't generally expect in Americans
>until they get to their 50's.
>
>Cass :)

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From: Kevin + Mara 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? 
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:41:41 -0500
Status: RO

I wonder if this also has something to do with population and space.  In an 
area where one has fewer neighbors/is less crowded, maybe it's ok to be 
friendlier, whereas if one lives in a crowded area, perhaps privacy is of 
more value?

I've observed something similar when going between rural areas and cities 
in the U.S.  I also suspect that the most 'obnoxious' American tourists are 
Texans, a land with lots of sunlight and wide open spaces.  There's 
something about Texas culture that is very un-European -- loud voices, 
brightly colored clothing, very huggy, "big hair" and lots of makeup (yes, 
I know that not all Texans are this way, just the ones I notice the 
most).  It makes me uncomfortable, too.  Even though my mom is Alabama 
Southern, Texas is a whole different flavor of Southern -- much more 
exaggerated.  I'm sure most Europeans would find it even more uncomfortable 
than I do.  My apologies to the Texans on the list, I'm sure you'd find me 
rude and standoffish :)  Plus, my hubby once told me a story about when he 
joined the Navy; one of the other new recruits asked where he was from, and 
he said Boston.  The other recruit replied, 'We-ll, what suburb of Texas is 
that?'  Exactly the kind of remark that sets ones teeth on edge.  Of 
course, Kevin isn't exempt from regional chauvinism -- he thinks the fall 
colors in New England are the loveliest in the world and that the leaves 
here just aren't as bright, which may be true, but it still makes me 
annoyed when he says it.

Obligatory Costume Content: we had a discussion a while back on the list 
about regional clothing differences in the U.S.  I can see this very 
dramatically when I go to New England; lots more people dress like they're 
shopping directly from the L.L. Bean catalogue, whereas here in the 
Mid-Atlantic area that comes across as distinctly 'prep school'.  We get a 
lot of tourists to the DC area from around the country and sometimes it's 
very obvious where they're from, based on their clothing; Californians are 
very likely to be wearing some kind of sandals or open shoes, for 
instance.  The pink pant suit mentioned in an earlier post is very 
definitely Southern, and lower class Southern at that -- neither my Ohio 
nor Alabama relatives would be caught dead in such an outfit.

I had a discussion with a friend from New England about another 
acquaintance who is from Texas; the New Englander doesn't trust the Texan, 
because the Texan comes across to her as 'fake'.  (Conversely, I bet if I 
asked the Texan what she thought of the New Englander -- IF she decided to 
tell me, which is not likely because in her culture such a direct 
assessment would be rude, she'd probably think the New Englander is too 
direct and abrupt.) Well, I don't think it's fake, so much, as just the way 
that people from the South smile all the time, which makes people from 
other cultures think they're hiding something.  (My hubby's problem with my 
mother, for example...)  My point, I guess, is that even in the U.S. there 
are cultural differences, and sometimes one needs a translator 
.  Having one parent from the South and one from the North makes 
things very interesting...

-- Mara


At 08:28 AM 11/26/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>(snip)
>I think part of the probem is that as a nation we are over cautious
>about offending someone by invading their privacy which is the golden 
>tennant of British
>behaviour.  The English are probably the worst offenders and we have taken 
>this to an almost
>extreme form in some cases to the extent it can be extremely hard to make 
>friends when you have
>moved to new area.
>
>Rachel

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk fabric on Ebay
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:53:03 -0500
Status: RO

At 02:05 PM 11/26/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>  --- Kevin & Mara Riley  wrote: > A friend of mine is 
> selling
>some fabric, and requested that I pass along
> > the url for the Ebay auction:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=740872705
> >
>Hi Mara, please tell your friend that the photo of the fabric is so small and
>dark that it's impossible (at least on my computer here) to see it, let alone
>the pattern. That will probably deter some people.
>
>Cheers
>Nicole

Thanks, she reposted the photo so it's more visible.

Cheers,
Mara

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:03:47 -0500
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At 04:40 PM 11/26/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Two and a half, I'd say. The rule about knives is that you don't bring 
>your knife to your mouth, only your fork. "Eating peas off the knife" is 
>(was) a saying indicating oafishness.
>
>"I eat my peas with honey
>I've done it all my life
>It makes the peas taste funny
>But it keeps them on the knife"

LOL!  My dad taught me that rhyme when I was little.  Few people I know 
have ever heard it.

Apparently it was normal to eat one's peas using a knife in the 18th c., or 
so I'm told.  Forks at that period had only two or three narrow tines, and 
certainly wouldn't work for eating peas.  18th c. knives usually have a 
broad, rounded tip.  I haven't tried eating food off one, though...

Cheers,
Mara

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: history on yer doorstep,
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:18:15 -0600
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I think that Nicole's original post (in this particular part of the
thread) kind of sums up what most people think. That all the history
happened in Europe and none of it happened here in the States. In
September I visited the Cahokia Mounds in South Central Illinois (across
the Mississippi from St. Louis). They are designated a World Heritage
site. The largest of the Mounds stands well over 100 ft tall and covers 4
acres. The site was built between @1000 CE and 1400 CE with over a
hundred other smaller mounds in the immediate area and signs of the mound
building culture following most of the river systems in the central part
of the US. In it's day Cahokia had an estimated population greater than
most European cities of the time and was the cultural, economic, and
spiritual center of an civilization larger than most European countries.
And it's my history. I am a native Illinoisian (what an awkward name to
call one's self!). I AM from around here! It's my history the same way
that the neolithic mound builders of England, the Romans who built the
wall around London, the Anglo-Saxons from Sutton Hoo, and the 'courtly
Normans cutting off of hands' are all the history of the English people
because it all happened there. Americans need to stop discounting the
history of America before the Europeans arrived, it had a full and rich
set of cultures which we need to respect and value.

Of course we don't tend to appreciate this part of our heritage. Until
quite recently, only a fraction of the Cahokia site was protected. Much
of it was hidden within a nasty 1940's era housing development and a
drive-in movie theater (Called 'The Mounds' of course). Even today part
of the site is in a trailer (caravan) park, and others are lost beneath
restaurants and discount department stores. 

Ummm......is my anthropology degree showing again?


Karen

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 10:42:39 2002
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Genie here,

I'm a couple days behind on postings so I don't know if this has been
answered.  But, my daughter just received a Folkwear catalogue in the mail,
or their url is www.folkwear.com
Hope this helps.  My one quibble with them is some of my favorite patterns
only go to size 14 or 16.  Oh, one of thier newest is #108 Turkish Dancer,
how accurate is this?  Also, coming soon #267 M'Lady's Corset scoop-neck
medieval and square-neck Elizabethan, opinions anyone.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Genie

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:12:40 -0700
Status: RO

Huh!
It looks pseudo-Norman to me.
I love pre-Raphaelites, too, although my favorite is that one with the
lady going up the stairs, and the gentleman (in chainmail?) coming
down.  It's called the Kiss? the meeting? (I'm drawing a blank,
here...it's too early in the caffeine scheme of things....)
And Nicole, I've *seen* pictures of you in Anglo-Saxon (I took Ben's
classes), and you look fine.  Honestly.  It's not as fancy or flattering
as your later stuff, but I bet it was a lot more practical and
lower-maintenance? 
--Sue, who really should get back to cooking her part of Thanksgiving
dinner.....

N Kipar wrote:
> 
>  --- Jennifer Geard  wrote: > Hi All,
> >
> > Nicole wrote, about "Eowyn's white dress":
> > > I can tell you, it's pretty simple: PreRaphaelites. It is an almost
> > > exact copy of 'The Lady of Shalott' by John Wiliam Waterhouse.
> >
> > I'm not sure whether the dress you're talking about is the one that I've
> > seen in publicity shots. The one I've seen has a white dress with a
> > sleeve that looks like it's taken from "The Accolade" by Edmund Blair
> > Leighton, and a brown-ish corselet-type thing that looks like one of
> > those bad attempts to recreate 12th-century "bliaut"-style dresses.
> > It's still pretty, but I envisaged something a bit more Anglo-Saxon
> > and, er, richly practical. I'm looking forward to seeing the film.
> 
> Nope, it is NOT the awful pullover-jumper type thingy in brown, but the white
> dress, see here:
> 
> http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/4981
> 
> I think it's seriously lovely because it is totally fantasy, and, as I said
> PreRaphaleite. Honestly, you wouldn't want the heorine in Anglo-Saxon dress, no
> matter if pre- or post Christian in my opinion. I have them, I know them, I
> wear them, and they are NOT flattering. I hate wearing any kind of Anglo-saxon,
> I feel like looking like a fat sausage. *G*
> 
> Nicole - corset/stays-lover
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:26:31 -0700
Status: RO

I *think* that's a reference to L'Anse Aux Meadows (sp?)
--sue

N Kipar wrote:
> 
>  --- STRAIGHT   wrote: >
> >      The "vikings" had a "permanent" settlement, which is quite well known
> > and documented, and they traveled around and south quite a bit also.
> 
> ??? Hang on a minute, I thought that was a hoax!
> Anyone got some verifyable info on that? Sources? Evidence? Infoooooooo
> pleeeeeease! :-)
> 
> Nicole
> 
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
> 
> __________________________________________________
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 Also, coming soon #267 M'Lady's Corset scoop-neck
>medieval and square-neck Elizabethan, opinions anyone.

I couldn't find a picture of this on their website, but...a scoop necked
medieval corset?  What the heck could this be?

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at
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 Also, coming soon #267 M'Lady's Corset scoop-neck
>medieval and square-neck Elizabethan, opinions anyone.

I couldn't find a picture of this on their website, but...a scoop necked
medieval corset?  What the heck could this be?

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at
margospatterns.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 11:32:45 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: history on yer doorstep,
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 --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I think that Nicole's original post (in this
particular part of the
> thread) kind of sums up what most people think. That all the history
> happened in Europe and none of it happened here in the States. In
> September I visited the Cahokia Mounds in South Central Illinois (across
> the Mississippi from St. Louis). They are designated a World Heritage
> site. The largest of the Mounds stands well over 100 ft tall and covers 4
> acres. The site was built between @1000 CE and 1400 CE with over a
> hundred other smaller mounds in the immediate area and signs of the mound
> building culture following most of the river systems in the central part
> of the US. In it's day Cahokia had an estimated population greater than
> most European cities of the time and was the cultural, economic, and
> spiritual center of an civilization larger than most European countries.

COOL!!!! More info on that, need to read more, really fascinating. It doesn't
contradict though what I said, on the contrary. What kind of people lived
there? Where did they come from? etc etc etc. :-)

BTW, what is CE? *confuzzled* I always use BC and AD but what is CE? Some funny
political corcectness thingy or so? I do assume it means BC? *scratches head*

Nicole

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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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BTW, what is CE? *confuzzled* I always use BC and AD but what is CE?
Some funny
political corcectness thingy or so? I do assume it means BC? *scratches
head*

Actually, CE stands for Current Era.  BCE is Before Current Era.  You
could say that it's the 'political correct' forms of BC and AD.  It's
more of a way of acknowledging the fact that there are a LOT of
non-Christians who use the same year numbering system as Christians.

Sarah


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From: kat@grendal.rain.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:59:48 -0800
Status: RO


> Kat wrote; [snip]
> > Roman teeth only showed a 7% rate of 
> >cavities although they had illness and inadequate diet problems as
> >well (hypoplastic teeth) 
Kate responded:
> What are hypoplastic teeth?
> This all goes along with what Robin said about teeth being 
> *relatively* good until the diet changed so that cavities become much
> more frequent.

These are teeth that do not develop properly due to inadequate diet 
or illness from prenatal through childhood until time of eruption. 
Disruption in the diet or illness anywhere during that time can lead 
to inadequate enamel being laid down, thus leading to hypoplasia.

And yes, it goes along with what Robin was saying. But then she'd 
done a fair amount of study about dental health rather than just 
looking at single cases. (Population studies much more accurately 
reflect what goes on in a group of people than single sensational 
cases. Frankly, you can find those same kinds of sensational cases 
even today when dental health has many more advantages.)
 
> >Then you add to that things like constant bottles with juice or milk
> >or constant breastfeeding (which a medieval mom wouldn't have done
> >like we do now), and you have even *more* cavities.
> 
> I know nothing about babies, but are you saying that breastfeeding
> causes tooth decay? And wouldn't it have been *more* common in
> mediaeval times than today?

The medieval mom had a different pattern of breastfeeding than the 
modern mom. The medieval mom would not have used it as a pacifier 
which is essentially why the "breast fed bottlemouth" of today has 
it. The medieval mom has a breastfeeding pattern more similar to the 
current breastfeeding mom's whose kids are merely fed, then set down, 
and who rarely get "breastfed bottlemouth."

I had been taught throughout medical school and my pediatric 
residency that you couldn't get "bottlemouth" from breastfeeding. 
However, in the past 20 years there has been an increase in it due to 
a change in *how* moms are breastfeeding. They *think* it is more 
natural, but yet it doesn't take into consideration the different 
attitude that mothers of the past had. Now it tends to be "don't let 
the baby cry at any cost, even if it means stopping your current 
activity." A medieval mom couldn't do that. She had to get things 
done no matter what. And chances are that they didn't notice the 
"noise" that is currently one of the big problems with many moms. 
They can't let the baby cry at night or they upset the neighbors. In 
medieval times this would have been considered a "normal" noise and 
not one to shush at all costs.

Kat Russell


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From: kat@grendal.rain.com
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:59:48 -0800
Status: RO

Albra wrote:
> And I used bunny fur to trim the edge of a late 1300's  heraldic
> sideless surcote a long while ago----and we were still finding odd
> bits of bunny  fur a year later! As I worked on the project, tho,  I
> found that if I cut the fur 
>  from behind--that is, the skin side ---with the scissors, I was less
>  likely 
> to produce tuffs of fur----:)  It was definitely a learning
> experience. Albra (now going back to lurking mode:)

That's the recommended way to cut out the pieces. (Same thing when 
you are cutting fake fur.) 

However, if you are trying to shorten the length of the fur, it's not 
possible.

Kat Russell


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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
References:  <200211272107.42975.cathy@thyrsus.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:05:24 -0000
Status: RO

Two brief points

Cathy wrote:

> I would not, in any event, expect a shaggy fur to be used to line
fine silk or
> wool garments, even if we assume the climate was much colder than it
is
> today.

 Well, contrary to your expectations, there are, for example, quite a
few lynx-lined garments to be seen; these are from the 15th and 16th
century, when fashions had changed in favour of heavier furs, but they
were certainly used under fine fabrics.  If you mean thin, rather than
fine, then I shall try this out when I have an opportunity. It's
important to remember, however, that there were virtually no sources
of effective heating, and that a noblewoman in a large and imposing
Great Hall may well have been colder than a peasant in a small hovel.

> No matter how short the pile is on a piece of fur, the foundation is
not a
> woven material, it's *skin*.  Pieces of leather or fur have a
different
> "hand" than any kind of woven material, no matter how heavy it is.
But the
> only tippets pictured that looked like fur are on the lady in black
and white
> in the Tres Riches Heures....

I think you are factoring in your impressions of what fur and fabrics
should look like, and assuming that contemporary illustrations are
photographic records, rather than considering the totality of the
evidence as a whole.  Remember also that much of the design was
intended to look good in movement as well as static. As Elizabeth
Ewing notes:

'Medieval costume has been glamorised more than that of any other
time, in harmony with the romances which, handed down from that
period, were one of the chief sources of later literature. The scene
they conjure up is one of a perpetual sunlit, flower-decked spring or
summer, through which dally fair ladies in sinuous dresses clinging to
willowy waists, trailing along daisy-strewn lawns, to meet gallants in
tights and splendid tunics, all in colours rich as stained glass or
delicate as flowers. The painters and illuminators have contributed
lavishly to this, but a closer look at their work and other evidence
shows something different. More likely than not the beautiful flowing
skirts are held up to reveal a lining of gentle fur. The flowing
sleeves are fur-bordered. Nearly all the well-known items of medieval
dress drew on furs for elegance and warmth.'

The 'other evidence' is the mass of records for accounting , taxation,
inventories, wills, gilds, added, of course, to legislation, all of
which make it obvious that fur was the rule, not the exception.
Elspeth Veale notes that three fur lined garments worn on top of each
other were not unusual, and the cautionary tales of the girls who lost
potential husbands by refusing to wear their furred (furred means
lined with, not just edged) garments because they made them look
fatter, abounded. Elizabeth Ewing summarised Elspeth Veale's
conclusions as:

'A picture of a populace encased in fur, wearing at times two or three
fur-lined, fur-trimmed garments, keeping to its furs indoors as well
as out...'

I see no evidence to dispute that conclusion, revolutionary as it was
at the time she published, though of course I *like* reading records
for accounting , taxation, inventories, wills, gilds, legislation and
so forth. You may have different preferences:-)

best wishes
Stevie




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On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:32:48 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?=
 writes:
> 
> COOL!!!! More info on that, need to read more, really fascinating. 
> It doesn't contradict though what I said, on the contrary. What kind of
people 
> lived there? Where did they come from? etc etc etc. :-)

The people who lived there were Native Americans /First Nations. The site
was abandoned by the original builders before Europeans got there for
reasons which archeology is still trying to determine. The same cultural
group was still living in other mound centers along the Mississippi
during the period of European exploration- they are now known as the
Choctaws. It's from these people that we have some of our more esoteric
knowledge of how the Mound Builder culture worked. By the time the
Europeans got to the area, the Mounds were inhabited by a secondary
people who had come from outside the Mound-Builder/Missississpian culture
and they knew no more about the mounds than the Europeans. They were the
Cahokia people and that's how the mounds got their current name. 

For more information go to:

http://medinfo.wustl.edu/~mckinney/cahokia/cahokia.html


 
> BTW, what is CE? *confuzzled* I always use BC and AD but what is CE? 
> Some funny political corcectness thingy or so? I do assume it means BC?

> *scratches head*

It's not actually 'politically correct' (a concept I despise), it is
current anthropological practice  to refer to Common/Current Era instead
of Anno Domini because not everyone who works in the field of
anthropology is Christian. The term BC (Before Christ) is now usually
termed BCE (Before Current/Common Era) for the same reason. There's
really no reason for Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Shintos, or any of the other
non-Christian religions to use dates involving a hypothetical event in a
religion they don't follow. It's seen as a remnant of European
colonialism. I'm just glad all they did was change the letters refering
to the two halves. I'd really hate to have to learn a new numbering
system for history based, say, on the Mayan calendar.....which by the way
is just as accurate if not more so than the one we currently use......


Karen 

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, N Kipar 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie dolls costumes, was Re: body type periods,
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On Thursday 28 November 2002 02:54 am, N Kipar wrote:
>  --- Catherine Olanich Raymond  wrote: > On Tuesday 26
>
> November 2002 05:45 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote:
> > > My Barbie had costumes made by me, and went on jungle adventures.....I
> > > was such an odd child.
> >
> > My Barbie dolls had some costumes made by me, some of which were
> > historical and others which were not.
> >
> > I see a pattern developing here....
>
> Ohhh yes! Say, who else had barbie dolls and made costumes for them? BTW, I
> am praying that my godchild will be a girl, because I have that fantastic
> Burda magazine chockerfull with historic costumes for Barbie dolls and Ken
> men, you should see the medievalesque costumes! (how the middle ages SHOULD
> have been and are in fairy tales). Phuleeeeze!! A girl, a girl, a girl!!!

Good luck.  :-)


> Nicole - who made a posh outfit for her Barbie for the occasion of Lady
> Di's and Prince Charles' wedding in 1981 *blech* :-)

I was long past the Barbie doll age by the time of that wedding.  Sigh.  

Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:39:11 +0000 "Kate M Bunting"
 writes:
> Kat wrote; [snip]
> > Roman teeth only showed a 7% rate of 
> >cavities although they had illness and inadequate diet problems as 
> >well (hypoplastic teeth) 
> 
> What are hypoplastic teeth?

Just guessing here--soft teeth?

Arlys

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, Robin Netherton 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:37:53 -0500
Status: RO

On Thursday 28 November 2002 12:35 am, Robin Netherton wrote:
> Just a quick reply, as I'm in the throes of preparing to serve
> Thanksgiving dinner for 11 people tomorrow...

Understood.  We're about to head off to my husband's parents place this 
afternoon, and to a second dinner tonight.  Feel free to ignore this for a 
day or two....
>
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
> > I don't remember seeing that many illustrations of white bordered
> > hems...
>
> Fur borders of perhaps 6 inches or so are really quite common in the
> period in which tippets were worn, and appear often in combination with
> tippets. In the Guillaume de Machaut manuscripts (often reproduced in
> costume books as examples of tippets, and fairly early in the tippet
> timespan), nearly every woman has a white border at the hem that has the
> same painting treatment as the tippets. The borders also frequently appear
> in sculptures and brasses of this same time-slice. There are several in
> the Tres Riches Heures, which you mentioned you have, so you can see them
> there.

I'll check.  I don't disbelieve you on this one at all, it's simply not part 
of my picture of art of the period.



> > Very little of my review of artwork for the period was performed
> > online; most of it was done before the invention of the Web.
> > However, my bad memory may be a factor too--Gothic has never been one
> > of my major periods of interest.  :-)
>
> That's quite understandable. I think you might be surprised if you have a
> chance to sit down with a few good focused books on 14th and early 15th
> century illumination.

> > > ...Over time, you're more likely to
> > > get reasonably good renderings of the fur texture in a more realistic
> > > fashion, showing its hairy surface or fluffy edges. The Limbourg
> > > brothers were good at this; get a good reproduction (not a scan!) of
> > > the Tres Riches Heures for some examples, including some fur tippets in
> > > the April calendar page. (That happens to be the first image in which I
> > > noticed that tippets were fur, as the rendering is undeniable.
> >
> > I would not go so far as to say "undeniable".  In fact, until the
> > discussion in this thread I did not realize that the woman in black
> > with the deep blue underdress (which I assume is the woman with
> > tippets to whom you're referring) was wearing tippets at all-- I
> > assumed her overdress had hanging sleeves with wide white trim.
> > Looking at it now, I can see that there is grass visible between the
> > edge of her left tippet and the outline of her torso.
>
> I think you may benefit from a better reproduction. The woman is actually
> in deep blue, with an ultramarine-blue underdress. There are a lot of bad
> repros out there, alas. My full facsimile (Braziller paperback ed. 1989)
> has wretched color reproduction. The pictures are fuzzy and lose a great
> deal of detail, leaving many surfaces flat to the eye. If you've got this
> book or one of similar quality, I can see that the fur use wouldn't be
> nearly so evident. Interestingly, my cheap picture-book version, bought on
> remainder in 1979 or so for a song (Crescent books, no date, printed in
> Italy) has crisp reproductions and excellent color.

I have actually seen several different color reproductions of certain plates 
from the Tres Riches Heures, particularly the April one we are discussing.  
My full fascimile has excellent detail but ghastly color.  However, 




> > (Though the artist kind of screwed up , because if the opening were
> > genuinely that big, she'd have to be emaciated or have a hole in her
> > torso or something...)
>
> Yeah, even for the Limbourgs, who carried the Gothic Slouch to the
> extreme, she's a little off. If you compare her to the woman in black
> riding in the August scene, you can parse out what they were intending;
> the problem may have been in her bent-over position.

Probably.
>
> > Maybe the lesson here is that it takes more visual education than even
> > you have presumed assumed to realize that what's being depicted in a
> > miniature, even one of the finer ones such as the Tres Riches Heures,
> > is fur instead of fabric....
>
> Maybe so. I have spent so long looking at this style of painting, and
> focusing on this particular period, it's easy for me to forget how my eye
> interpreted certain things before I had so much experience with it.
>
> > That brings me to my other problem, which is would a fur or fur-lined
> > piece hang the way tippets are shown to hang in medieval art?  (I'd
> > have the same problem with the "tippet as brocade" hypothesis>)  Upon
> > reflection, I agree with you that the answer is "yes" for the woman
> > shown on the April page of the Tres Riches Heures, but that
> > representation is different from any other picture of a woman in a
> > tippet I've ever seen.
>
> Is it? I think people often expect tippets to be light and "fluttery."
> Perhaps that's because tippets are often depicted that way in redrawings
> by artists trying to be "realistic" in a modern style, or because we
> expect they will be based on the assumption that they're fabric, or
> because we've seen them that way in (fabric) reproduction costumes. But in
> the sources, tippets tend to hang straight down. They don't twist on
> themselves or curve or sway. They have some substance and weight. The TRH
> April lady's tippets, which drape over her hip, are wider than most of
> those that appear earlier (e.g. Machaut) but they're not unusual. A very
> similar look appears, for instance, in figure 30 (a wedding scene,
> Parement master, 1380 France) in _Margaret Scott's Visual History of
> Fashion: 14th and 15th centuries_ -- to just grab the first available book
> on my shelf.
>
> > Granted.  Most 19th c. sources are pure bunk when discussing or
> > depicting the Middle Ages.  My recollections are primarily of (color)
> > reproductions of miniatures and some redrawings, but I'd need to go
> > back and actively look for period art to test my memory.
>
> You'll have fun doing that, I think, if you haven't seen the works for a
> while. I have often found myself surprised when I go back to something I
> thought I knew well to discover some substantially new visual reading that
> had gone right by me earlier, because my eyes weren't well enough
> developed the last time I saw it.
>
> > I'm not trying to argue with you.  I still think your theory is
> > logical and fits the known facts, such as they are, better than any
> > other I can think of.  And I really appreciate the effort you put into
> > this reply; thank you very much for it.  I'm just trying to figure out
> > why something still bothers me about it, that's all.
>
> If you still feel that after you've taken a closer look at the sources,
> please let me know. If my logic doesn't hold up for someone, I want to
> know that -- that may mean I have to rethink something.
>
> 
>
> > >This book, as it
> > > happens, was used as the basis of research by quite a few later costume
> > > researchers.
> >
> > Sigh.  I wonder just how often that has happened over the years.
> > Probably more often than we'd like to think.
>
> This has actually been a major focus in my research. I do a lecture on the
> development of errors in costume sources going back to the Victorians and
> earlier. As part of this, I take a piece of medieval artwork and show how
> a series of costume historians interpreted/redrew it over the course of a
> century or so, each basing his work on the previous writers. It's like a
> game of telephone, as the changes stack up incrementally. By the time
> you're five or six steps away from the original, the differences are
> enormous.
>
> > "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
> >  --Flannery O'Connor
>
> I love this.
>
> --Robin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 12:26:38 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie dolls costumes, was Re: body type periods,
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:26:27 -0800
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N Kipar wrote:

>Ohhh yes! Say, who else had barbie dolls and made costumes for them?
>
Oh, I did. I started off asking Mom to make stuff for my teddy bear. She 
did, but started teaching me to sew when I was 6 or7 because making 
clothes for a beat-up, flat bear is only fun for so long. I switched to 
barbie dolls, because a bear would look funny in an evening dress. I 
made all kinds of ethnic costumes for that doll. I think the first one 
was a sari out of an old silk scarf. Then I got into fitted clothes. 
What a pain! The only way I ever figured out how to get the blouse on 
the doll was to 1) remove arms and head 2) stuff arms into sleeves of 
blouse 3) stuff Barbie's torso in to the blouse 3) re-attach arms and head.

liz
lizyoung@fenris.net

>  
>

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Subject: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:33:50 -0600
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Personal idiosyncrasy as I'm a lefty; fork in left hand, knife in right,
never bother with switching hands that way.  Also, always sit on a corner so
I don't bump the person on my left when eating.

Genie

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From: Lee Thompson-Herbert 
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To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture?
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Mara  wrote:
> There's 
> something about Texas culture that is very un-European -- loud voices, 
> brightly colored clothing, very huggy, "big hair" and lots of makeup (yes, 
> I know that not all Texans are this way, just the ones I notice the 
> most).  

Biggest Egos, Biggest Hair, 
Biggest Liars anywhere
Let's sing another stupid Texas song...
[...]
Throw your hats up in the air
We're obnoxious, we don't care!
Let's sing another stupid Texas song.

There's a band called the Austin Lounge Lizards who spend a lot of time
lampooning certain aspects of texas culture.  So even the people who _live_
there don't always care much for the attitudes we were talking about.  And
social class definitely plays into it.  My grandmother used to cringe at 
the Ross Perot (new money) types.

[...]
> one of the other new recruits asked where he was from, and 
> he said Boston.  The other recruit replied, 'We-ll, what suburb of Texas is 
> that?'  Exactly the kind of remark that sets ones teeth on edge.  

Of course, he may have been yanking your husband's chain, too.  Texan humor
still has a very irish flavor.  Despite the fact that many Boston folks
still consider themselves irish and most Texans (and other southerners)
wouldn't.  Look up "snipe hunting" for an example of typical texan humor.

[...]
> Obligatory Costume Content: we had a discussion a while back on the list 
> about regional clothing differences in the U.S.  I can see this very 
> dramatically when I go to New England; lots more people dress like they're 
> shopping directly from the L.L. Bean catalogue, whereas here in the 
> Mid-Atlantic area that comes across as distinctly 'prep school'.  We get a 
> lot of tourists to the DC area from around the country and sometimes it's 
> very obvious where they're from, based on their clothing; Californians are 
> very likely to be wearing some kind of sandals or open shoes, for 
> instance.  

They must be from southern California.  The most common shoe type you see
here in northern CA is athletic shoes.  Keep in mind that there's a _lot_
of room for cultural differences here.  In some areas, the biggest influence
is still mexican.  I see a lot of people who dress just like my texan 
relatives (a lot of texan dress, at least for men, is mexican).  

We can always tell the tourists in San Francisco because they're the fools
wearing shorts in July (and freezing).  Summer doesn't start here until the
end of August.  The tourist shops make good money selling sweatshirts here. ;}

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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To: h-costume@indra.com, 
From: Margo Anderson 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:53:45 -0800
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At 11:33 AM 11/28/2002 -0600, Genie wrote:
>Personal idiosyncrasy as I'm a lefty; fork in left hand, knife in right,
>never bother with switching hands that way.  

Me too!  Like many left handed children, I was very clumsy.  My parents,
wisely,  didn't even attempt to teach me any other system of eating.  In
fact, I was grown before I realized that which hand you eat with might be
dictated by something other than dominance.

I'm still puzzled by the references to eating with the fork tines down,
though.  I can see it with foods that you stab, like peices of meat, but
what about loose litle bits like peas?  How do you do it?

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at
margospatterns.com
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At 11:33 AM 11/28/2002 -0600, Genie wrote:
>Personal idiosyncrasy as I'm a lefty; fork in left hand, knife in right,
>never bother with switching hands that way.  

Me too!  Like many left handed children, I was very clumsy.  My parents,
wisely,  didn't even attempt to teach me any other system of eating.  In
fact, I was grown before I realized that which hand you eat with might be
dictated by something other than dominance.

I'm still puzzled by the references to eating with the fork tines down,
though.  I can see it with foods that you stab, like peices of meat, but
what about loose litle bits like peas?  How do you do it?

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at
margospatterns.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 12:55:35 2002
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I just dug it out of my pattern-treasure-trove and it's unfortunately from 1996
(when the godchild-to-be wasn't even the remotest twinkle in my friend's eyes
*G*) and it is simply called 'Barbie' and is a Burda Special magazine, and is
all in German. I don't know if they still make Burda specials for Barbie, and I
can't find out unless I nip into a magazine shop over Christmas in germany.

The historical costumes in that mag are to die for *G*

Nicole

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From: Drea Leed 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency corsets?
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> 1) Is there any benefit in terms of in searching for a proper 1800-1820
> corset pattern, or will this bodice petticoat provide the correct period
> silhouette (I'm not as concerned that the underpinnings be historically
> accurate as no one's going to look up my dress, but I do want the shaping to
> be right).

This depends on several factors; if you're recreating English regency and
not French, corsets were considered more of a requirement.  If you are a b
cup or less and slender, the La Mode petticoat bodies does a decent job of
recreating the bust silhouette; my friend dan is wearing it beneath her
gown (also La Mode) at http://www.onlinecostumeball.com/2002/guest29.htm

However, wearing the corset makes you move differently, something which is
noticeable in A&E's Regency Movies.  Also, if you are busty or voluptuous,
I'd definitely recommend a regency corset to give the correct line as La
Mode's petticoat bodies doesn't quite cut it.  (DD myself.)

Mantua Maker's Regency stays are generally acknowledged to be the best
around--they're a period pattern, give a good shape, are easy to make and
the pattern sizing is excellent. You'll probably want a smock to wear
under it, as well.

Have fun with your gown,

Drea

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:25:31 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- Margo Anderson  wrote: > 
> I'm still puzzled by the references to eating with the fork tines down,
> though.  I can see it with foods that you stab, like peices of meat, but
> what about loose litle bits like peas?  How do you do it?

with patience.... a small smile, an attempt at grace, and a LOT of patience...

Personally, I find it silly, and in Germany we don't do it like that, but when
I want to be really 'well behaved' over here, I do do it as well (or just don't
take peas).

Nicole

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:27:42 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >
> >  from behind--that is, the skin side ---with the scissors, I was less
> >  likely 
> > to produce tuffs of fur----:)  It was definitely a learning
> > experience. Albra (now going back to lurking mode:)
> 
> That's the recommended way to cut out the pieces. (Same thing when 
> you are cutting fake fur.) 

I found using a scalpel and gently incising into the lovely soft skin worked
best.

Nicole - can you tell my sis is a pathologist? *G*

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:35:01 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > 

> The people who lived there were Native Americans /First Nations. The site

*snippage* Interesting! Thanks for that link.

> It's not actually 'politically correct' (a concept I despise), it is
> current anthropological practice  to refer to Common/Current Era instead
> of Anno Domini because not everyone who works in the field of
> anthropology is Christian. The term BC (Before Christ) is now usually
> termed BCE (Before Current/Common Era) for the same reason. 

*shrugs* The historians I work with use AD and BC still. I use whatever I'm
s'posed to use, I never cared although I'm not a Christian, but then things
like that just never bothered me. CE and BCE makes sense I assume. Actually I
disagree with what you dispise, that it is not politically correct, but that
doesn't matter, is of no consequence. 
Thanks for the explanation!

Nicole - who can't find a costume content and thus slithers behind a rock.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 13:36:34 2002
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:36:19 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Sarah Krans  
> Actually, CE stands for Current Era.  BCE is Before Current Era.  You
> could say that it's the 'political correct' forms of BC and AD.  It's
> more of a way of acknowledging the fact that there are a LOT of
> non-Christians who use the same year numbering system as Christians.

Cheers! 

Nicole - from behind that slithering-rock

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Subject: [h-cost] PreRaphaelites, Re: NZ and LotR Re: teeth
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:43:59 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Sue Clemenger  wrote: > Huh!
> It looks pseudo-Norman to me.

Actually, a fair point, it does have something, but then I suppose that's what
the PreRaphelites drew inspiration from as well?

> I love pre-Raphaelites, too, although my favorite is that one with the
> lady going up the stairs, and the gentleman (in chainmail?) coming
> down.  It's called the Kiss? the meeting? (I'm drawing a blank,
> here...it's too early in the caffeine scheme of things....)

It's Fredrick Burton's 'Meeting on the Turret Stairs'

http://www.illusionsgallery.com/turret-stairs.html

Lovely, lovely, lovely.

> And Nicole, I've *seen* pictures of you in Anglo-Saxon (I took Ben's
> classes), and you look fine.  Honestly.  It's not as fancy or flattering
> as your later stuff, but I bet it was a lot more practical and
> lower-maintenance? 

Yes...... but...... hmm.... just not flattering!

Nicole

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:08:14 -0500
Status: RO


> I want to be really 'well behaved' over here, I do do it as well (or just
don't
> take peas).
>
> Nicole
>

It's very easy for me. I despise peas, so I just never eat them!

My 1 y.o. loves 'em. Go figure. But he's been known to eat his with his
fingers!  :-)

Dianne
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:14:54 -0800
Status: RO

I'm a very curvy individual, so I prefer doing the corseted 
Victorian/Edwardian styles. They make me feel absolutely feminine, and they 
are such fun to wear (making is a challenge for me, though).

For facial features, when I was in Japan, I kept on being asked if I was 
part Japanese because of the shape of my eyes (slanted, slightly narrow, 
with that folded eyelid, although blue.) :] When I told them my mother's 
family is Russian, they were.. "oh.. Russia.."

My best recreation time for all-over body and face type is Russian, 
although I'm not sure what time period I'm thinking of here. Some of the 
costumes are incredible, and all the headpieces with fringe and dangly 
beading look fabulous on me.

kris
who wears Italian 1490s and French 1400-ish outfits on a regular basis :]

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:48:47 -0500
Status: RO

> Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't have any history
> - other than Native American - before, what, early 17th? That must be a bummer!
>

Hi. It isn't anything to feel pity about, but the period of 1492 to the latter part
of the 19th Cent. was certainly nothing to feel proud about, at least from the
perspective of non-native peoples. The culprits, as most historians agree, were the
Europeans (i.e. all of us). We really didn't begin to become "Americans" as we now
are until some time after 1789. I still claim credit (or shame as the case may be),
as most of my heritage is European, with only a small amount of Native American,
and that absorbed. On a side note, as this is Thanksgiving Day in the US, I have
read my family the chapter in "Mourt's Relation" (the document that chronicles the
English invasion of the Wampanoag people in Massachusetts in 1620), that relates to
the apparently unconscionable theft of stored food and, in one case, grave goods by
the Puritan English. With such celebrated ancestors like these, it is a wonder that
we ever survived as a nation with any conscience at all. As a clothing sidenote, it
has been my experience that, when contacting Native American groups to participate
in 17th Cent. Native/European interactive events, the Native groups do not wear the
traditional clothing ascribed to them by the European chronicles/illustrations of
the period, but they wear items more in common with the Western Plains peoples.
When I asked my friend the Tribal Chairman about this, he said that his people
didn't feel that the European view was something that they felt comfortable
copying. They were more happy in wearing the fashions of the Native peoples to whom
they had been sent (essentially in exile). The local people here were the
Lenni-Lenape, who were sent to Oklahoma. "They say that their Great God
Cawtantowwit created those parts, as I observed in the Chapter of their Religion.
They have no Clothes, Books, nor Letters, and conceive their Fathers never had; and
therefore they are easily perswaded that the God that made English men is a greater
God, because Hee hath so richly endowed the English above themselves: But when they
heare that about sixteen hundred yeeres agoe, England and the Inhabitants thereof
were like unto themselves, and since have received from God, Clothes, Bookes, &c.
they are affected with a secret hope concerning themselves"  Roger Williams A Key
to the Language of America 1643
What Cheare, Netop.  Mike T.

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:38:37 -0500
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> I seem to recall reading that there's documentary references to
> toothpicks, but I'd have no idea where to look to find that out.
> Inventories, maybe? Etiquette manuals?
>

Hi, All. Robin, there are some available docs that show/inventory toothpicks.
There is, however, an illustration of a Venetian gondoleer that shows one in
use, although it is oddly enlarged (perhaps the illustrator wanted to show it,
so he made it, well, bigger than a toothpick).   Mike T.

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:57:29 -0000
Status: RO

On 28 Nov 2002 at 5:23, Melanie Wilson wrote:

> >In England, especially London, I found
> that people just barrel down the road bumping into people and saying
> "sorry," very fast, every few seconds.
> 
> This is quite funny to me as I think of London as full of forigners :)
> It isn't normal in my experiance for the rest of England to just bump
> into people, heavens no !!

Agreed.


> >On the other hand, I found people in England VERY scrupulous about
> >going up
> and down public stairs on the correct sides.
> 
> Again a London thing I think, I get terribily confussed by it !

I've found that Londoners seem to make a point of 
going up and down stairs, and along pavements, 
through underground passages, etc, on the WRONG 
side. Even when there is a nice clear notice telling 
them which way round to do things. They follow the 
crowd, and choose a method which either disobeys 
any rules on the matter, or failing the existence of 
rules, is the most inefficient available.

I like London as a city, but wish there were less 
people in it!





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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breastfeedin was Re: teeth
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:39:40 -0000
Status: RO

>These are teeth that do not develop properly due to inadequate diet
or illness from prenatal through childhood until time of eruption.
Disruption in the diet or illness anywhere during that time can lead
to inadequate enamel being laid down, thus leading to hypoplasia.

There have been a few studies done on this in relation to gender, most show
class as the issue over gender I believe

>The medieval mom had a different pattern of breastfeeding than the
modern mom.

You are saying that medieval mothers did not demand feed then ? What
evidence of that is there ?

>They *think* it is more
natural, but yet it doesn't take into consideration the different
attitude that mothers of the past had. Now it tends to be "don't let
the baby cry at any cost, even if it means stopping your current
activity." A medieval mom couldn't do that. She had to get things
done no matter what.

It is perfectly possible to breast feed & continue with most activities.
Stopping does not need to come into it. Demand feeding is more natural,
witness most animals with the very young esp.

>And chances are that they didn't notice the
"noise" that is currently one of the big problems with many moms.

Again the noise is  speculated to be a survival factor and the desire to
react to it influencial in what makes a good mother (in evolutionary terms)

>They can't let the baby cry at night or they upset the neighbors. In
medieval times this would have been considered a "normal" noise and
not one to shush at all costs.

I'd love to see the evidence for this. Have you read the studies on cot
death & babies in cultures who arn't forced to sleep alone & cry ? This
suggestion, that crying is normal noise,  is not consistant with primate
behaviour IMHO, and I've not seen anything supporting such as view in
medieval litrature, please have you any refs ?.

Mel


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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
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Subject: [h-cost] US culture firmly stuck in 16th century Religious Wars
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:45:13 -0800
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RE:

> > Nicole - who feels just so sorry that you lot in America don't have any
history
> > - other than Native American - before, what, early 17th? That must be a
bummer!
> >
It may seem that way until you live here and have to navigate through the
baggage we have of England's religious wars on an everyday basis.

I recently did a temp job at the local park and recreation department and
part of my job was to rent out the meeting/banquet rooms to community
members.  One day, a Muslim couple wanted to rent two halls for their
wedding reception, one for the men and one for the women.  This way, the
women could wear their best party clothes which they felt would be too
revealing to be seen in by the male members of their community.  No problem,
space was available, in fact, more money to the parks department as they
were going to rent two halls instead of one.

 They had a simple request, that we not have our male staff enter the ladies
hall without knocking first so they could cover themselves before he
entered, female staff would be okay.  We accommodate many other group's
quirky requests (to us anyway) and we were happy to do what we could to make
their use of our facilities as amenable to their needs as possible.  Good
business sense, we were charging them after all.

But I did have to explain to them though, that policy was that we were
prohibited from making any special arrangements for them based upon their
religious beliefs being a state agency.  The constant debate over separation
of church and state here goes of course back to England and the persecutions
that took place that many choose to flee from.  We have been stuck in that
conflict ever since.  That and the right to bear arms.  We definitely have a
cultural history going back much further than 17th century.


Rgds,

Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. Clothiers
www.threadneedlest.com





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> Have they been found with hooks, or are they assumed to hook into thread
> loops?  I'm wondering if they are the same as ones I've seen sold as
> belt furniture, to hang things off.  I'm imagining I've seen this on an
> effigy, but no idea where to look.
>
> Jean
> --

Hi, All. Jean, the ones that are illustrated and the ones that I have in my
collection seem to be single items. They may have been made in pairs, but I don't
have any that are joined to anything else. This seems to indicate that they were
hooked through either fulled cloth (some of the bent-back hooks are rather sharp),
or through loops, as you suggest. The hooks that I have seen are all made as one
cast piece, and the hook always seems to be bent inward, that is to say 180 away
from the decorated facing rather than outward. It is possible that they were some
sort of belt hanger. In that case, the hook would have passed through the leather
belt from front to back and have been bent over to form the hook. The purse could
have either been sewn or hooked to the eye at the other side of the piece. I had
wondered for a while whether or not these items were spur accessories, as they were
similar to a piece from the 17th Cent., but they are never to my knowledge found in
context with spur parts, unless they are some debased form of spur worn by carters
or non-noble folk. Who knows?   Mike T. PS, a friend of mine does some wonderful
pewter castings of medieval belt fittings. She has a few purse hanger bits. If you
are interested, contact me privately, I'll connect you both. Cheers, MJT

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] US culture firmly stuck in 16th century Religious Wars
To: h-costume@indra.com
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 --- Lisa Sinervo  wrote: > RE:

> conflict ever since.  That and the right to bear arms.  We definitely have a
> cultural history going back much further than 17th century.

Yes, but in England, as you so rightly said. I talked about GEOGRAPHICAL bits,
as I tried to explain (and not forget, she says for the umpteenth time, I was
not, am not, will not be a native English speaker although I live here, and I
do my blooming best to explain what I mean - which doesn't always work
apparently) and that's why I put on the email subject line 'on yer doorstep' I
thought that made it pretty clear.

*sigh*

You may all happily trace anything you want back to mythical times if you like,
but I wasn't actually talking about that!

Hey, you have the Rocky Mountains, the Grand Canyan, diverse deserts and
magnificent forests etc., now THAT is something to be proud of too!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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On 28 Nov 2002 at 5:23, Melanie Wilson wrote:

> >In England, especially London, I found
> that people just barrel down the road bumping into people and saying
> "sorry," very fast, every few seconds.
> 
> This is quite funny to me as I think of London as full of forigners :)
> It isn't normal in my experiance for the rest of England to just bump
> into people, heavens no !!

Agreed.


> >On the other hand, I found people in England VERY scrupulous about
> >going up
> and down public stairs on the correct sides.
> 
> Again a London thing I think, I get terribily confussed by it !

I've found that Londoners seem to make a point of 
going up and down stairs, and along pavements, 
through underground passages, etc, on the WRONG 
side. Even when there is a nice clear notice telling 
them which way round to do things. They follow the 
crowd, and choose a method which either disobeys 
any rules on the matter, or failing the existence of 
rules, is the most inefficient available.

I like London as a city, but wish there were less 
people in it!





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On Thursday 28 November 2002 04:36 am, Kate Cole wrote:
[text cut here]

. However, I'd be happy that the pattern you're looking
> at will give you the right shape – that's the great thing about Regency is
> you can wear nothing underneath (support-wise) and still look period (you
> just have to be one of the more daring and highly fashionable ladies of the
> time).

And have the right body type, of course....   :-)

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Subject: [h-cost] Breaking bread, teeth & ear picking
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I looked up in the Babbees book collection of  medieval etiquette? books.
this tends to suggest bread is to be cut rather than broken on the whole.
Anyway I've put as many as I could find in a few mins before chasing the
kids to bed down, hope they are of some use/interest.

The way of dining  line 92-95 suggest that soft things are smeared on bread
and that other things are placed in the hollowed bread, and that cheese and
bread are eaten together.  Line 97-98 sayes knives should not be licked or
wiped on the edges of the plates, but on the bread

Babees book 141 sayes cut your bread don't break it, another section says
not to break bread in two or put it in your pocket.  Another describes how
to cut the bread & not to bite it , but break it and give the remains to the
poor. It would be interesting to see if this continued and is indeed the
origin of the British custom now.

More relation to costume esp as I tend to carry the so called toilet sets is
.... several refs to not picking your nose, ears or picking your teeth with
your knife, but with a stick or other clean thing (no toothpicks as
mentioned archaelogically so far Robin). Way of dining gives a ref to
brushing ones teeth. . Another mentions rubbing with a linnen cloth

Mel



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Nov 28 17:30:36 2002
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Hi. Please read "Vikings; The North Atlantic Saga"  edited by William W.
Fitzhugh, Director of the Arctic Studies Center and Curator, Department of
Anthropology at the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History, and
Elisabeth L Ward, the curatorial specialist for the Viking Project at the
Smithsonian. Smithsonian Museum Press 2000 ISBN 1-56098-995-5. Of course, this
work is done by an American museum, so there is probably less valuable
scholarship than if it had been done in Europe, but a good read nonetheless.
Mike T.


> ??? Hang on a minute, I thought that was a hoax!
> Anyone got some verifyable info on that? Sources? Evidence? Infoooooooo
> pleeeeeease! :-)
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:00:39 -0500
Status: RO

On Thursday 28 November 2002 12:05 pm, Stevie Gamble wrote:
> Two brief points
>
> Cathy wrote:
> > I would not, in any event, expect a shaggy fur to be used to line
> > fine silk or wool garments, even if we assume the climate was much colder 
> > than it is today.

>  Well, contrary to your expectations, there are, for example, quite a
> few lynx-lined garments to be seen; these are from the 15th and 16th
> century, when fashions had changed in favour of heavier furs, but they
> were certainly used under fine fabrics.  If you mean thin, rather than
> fine, then I shall try this out when I have an opportunity.


I was, in fact, using "fine" to mean "thin" or, more specifically, "with a 
short hair length instead of a long bushy one."  That's all.  :-)

> It's
> important to remember, however, that there were virtually no sources
> of effective heating, and that a noblewoman in a large and imposing
> Great Hall may well have been colder than a peasant in a small hovel.

I'm well aware of that.  I used the first (and only) houppelande I ever made 
as a bathrobe throughout law school because the place in which I was living 
was so cold--and I hadn't even attempted to fully line the garment.


>
> > No matter how short the pile is on a piece of fur, the foundation is
> > not a woven material, it's *skin*.  Pieces of leather or fur have a
> > different "hand" than any kind of woven material, no matter how heavy it 
> > is.   But the
> > only tippets pictured that looked like fur are on the lady in black
> and white in the Tres Riches Heures....
>
> I think you are factoring in your impressions of what fur and fabrics
> should look like, and assuming that contemporary illustrations are
> photographic records, rather than considering the totality of the
> evidence as a whole. 

I was factoring in only what I actually know about how fur and fabrics I have 
seen and handled actually behave.  I don't pretend to know what the totality 
of the evidence is.


> Remember also that much of the design was
> intended to look good in movement as well as static.

This was, in fact, part of my point.  I can't imagine a tippet that is made of 
fur looking very graceful in movement at all.  But then, my sense of 
aestethics is probably very different than the medieval one.


> As Elizabeth Ewing notes:
>
> 'Medieval costume has been glamorised more than that of any other
> time, in harmony with the romances which, handed down from that
> period, were one of the chief sources of later literature. The scene
> they conjure up is one of a perpetual sunlit, flower-decked spring or
> summer, through which dally fair ladies in sinuous dresses clinging to
> willowy waists, trailing along daisy-strewn lawns, to meet gallants in
> tights and splendid tunics, all in colours rich as stained glass or
> delicate as flowers. The painters and illuminators have contributed
> lavishly to this, but a closer look at their work and other evidence
> shows something different. More likely than not the beautiful flowing
> skirts are held up to reveal a lining of gentle fur. The flowing
> sleeves are fur-bordered. Nearly all the well-known items of medieval
> dress drew on furs for elegance and warmth.'
>
> The 'other evidence' is the mass of records for accounting , taxation,
> inventories, wills, gilds, added, of course, to legislation, all of
> which make it obvious that fur was the rule, not the exception.


I don't doubt it.  I'm well aware that fur lined garments were common.  It was 
only that, until now, I considered tippets to be an exception, that's all.


> Elspeth Veale notes that three fur lined garments worn on top of each
> other were not unusual, and the cautionary tales of the girls who lost
> potential husbands by refusing to wear their furred (furred means
> lined with, not just edged) garments because they made them look
> fatter, abounded. 

This is interesting.  Thanks for providing information about Ms. Veale's book, 
of which I had not previously heard; I must try to track it down.


Elizabeth Ewing summarised Elspeth Veale's
> conclusions as:
>
> 'A picture of a populace encased in fur, wearing at times two or three
> fur-lined, fur-trimmed garments, keeping to its furs indoors as well
> as out...'
>
> I see no evidence to dispute that conclusion, revolutionary as it was
> at the time she published, though of course I *like* reading records
> for accounting , taxation, inventories, wills, gilds, legislation and
> so forth. You may have different preferences:-)

I do, actually, but that's not the point.  Records of those types can be a 
goldmine of information, and every bit of period information should be 
reviewed and evaluated.


Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, Lee Thompson-Herbert 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture?
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:06:22 -0500
Status: RO

On Thursday 28 November 2002 01:11 pm, Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
> Mara  wrote:
[text cut here]

> We can always tell the tourists in San Francisco because they're the fools
> wearing shorts in July (and freezing).  Summer doesn't start here until the
> end of August.  The tourist shops make good money selling sweatshirts here.
> ;}


True.  I like the Bay Area generally, but can't imagine living there.  Every 
time I show up, I spend most of my time there being cold, even when I 
remember to bring a sweatshirt or two in advance.  :-(

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture?
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:22:19 -0800
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>Obligatory Costume Content: we had a discussion a while back on the list 
>about regional clothing differences in the U.S.  I can see this very 
>dramatically when I go to New England; lots more people dress like they're 
>shopping directly from the L.L. Bean catalogue, whereas here in the 
>Mid-Atlantic area that comes across as distinctly 'prep school'.  We get a 
>lot of tourists to the DC area from around the country and sometimes it's 
>very obvious where they're from, based on their clothing; Californians are 
>very likely to be wearing some kind of sandals or open shoes, for 
>instance.  The pink pant suit mentioned in an earlier post is very 
>definitely Southern, and lower class Southern at that -- neither my Ohio 
>nor Alabama relatives would be caught dead in such an outfit.

Last year at Dickens' Fair I did a Yankee clipper ship captain's wife 
(Eleanor Creesy from the Flying cloud), and as part of my basic character 
position I looked people directly in the eye, and I made it a point to 
offer my hand vertically, as if to shake it, rather than horizontally, as 
if to have it kissed.  I made sure I wasn't loud or actually unladylike, 
but I tried to be direct and confident rather than demure and deferring.

>I had a discussion with a friend from New England about another 
>acquaintance who is from Texas; the New Englander doesn't trust the Texan, 
>because the Texan comes across to her as 'fake'.  (Conversely, I bet if I 
>asked the Texan what she thought of the New Englander -- IF she decided to 
>tell me, which is not likely because in her culture such a direct 
>assessment would be rude, she'd probably think the New Englander is too 
>direct and abrupt.) Well, I don't think it's fake, so much, as just the 
>way that people from the South smile all the time, which makes people from 
>other cultures think they're hiding something.  (My hubby's problem with 
>my mother, for example...)  My point, I guess, is that even in the U.S. 
>there are cultural differences, and sometimes one needs a translator 
>.  Having one parent from the South and one from the North makes 
>things very interesting...


Kayta

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic eating
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:27:33 -0800
Status: RO


>>Two and a half, I'd say. The rule about knives is that you don't bring 
>>your knife to your mouth, only your fork. "Eating peas off the knife" is 
>>(was) a saying indicating oafishness.
>>
>>"I eat my peas with honey
>>I've done it all my life
>>It makes the peas taste funny
>>But it keeps them on the knife"
>
>LOL!  My dad taught me that rhyme when I was little.  Few people I know 
>have ever heard it.

I always heard it sung, with banjo accompaniment:

"The Johnson boys eat peas with honey
They have done so all their lives
Makes the peas taste kind of funny
But it keeps them on the knives"

(I was a Folkie/Hippie in the late 60s)

Kayta

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie costume pattern magazine
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:42:33 -0800
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>I just dug it out of my pattern-treasure-trove and it's unfortunately from 
>1996
>(when the godchild-to-be wasn't even the remotest twinkle in my friend's eyes
>*G*) and it is simply called 'Barbie' and is a Burda Special magazine, and is
>all in German. I don't know if they still make Burda specials for Barbie, 
>and I
>can't find out unless I nip into a magazine shop over Christmas in germany.
>
>The historical costumes in that mag are to die for *G*

Gosh, if it's unavailable now, could you see making a photocopy for me?  I 
could send you a photocopy of something I have that's about that long (what 
would you like?) by way of trade.


Kayta

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:49:09 -0800
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> > I'm still puzzled by the references to eating with the fork tines down,
> > though.  I can see it with foods that you stab, like peices of meat, but
> > what about loose litle bits like peas?  How do you do it?
>
>with patience.... a small smile, an attempt at grace, and a LOT of patience...

The way I saw it done in Australia, almost 20 years ago, was that the fork 
was held in the non-dominant hand, tines down, and all the mushy bits were 
smeared onto the back of it, before popping the tine-end into the mouth.  I 
can't say if this is English or not, nor what class, or lack of it, this 
might represent.  But at the time I marveled at the difference between how 
I then ate (switch fork between hands for every bite of meat cut up) and 
what I was seeing.  I now eat pretty much that way, unless Miss Manners is 
watching, in which case I eat like I did at my grandmother's table.

Kayta

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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] US culture firmly stuck in 16th century Religious Wars
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:23:47 -0800
Status: RO

Nicole,

My response to you comes more from the comments I hear from Americans about
bemoaning their percieved lack of history than from what you actually wrote.
Your english is fine.  I simply become frustrated with my fellow Americans
who don't see that our current situation does indeed connect us to the
places we are envious of.  It is more of a "we really are all connected"
stance that I have, "mythical" if you prefer.  When I read about a drive by
shooting taking place next to Macy's I think, well, this is on my door step.

Cheers!

Lisa






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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:55:35 -0500
Status: RO

<<>>

        I am Southern, but NOT lower class and I have two expensive (my
aunt bought them) pink pant suits that I wear and love and look good in. 
Sorry about your relatives, but the color of your pant suit is a matter
of personal taste, not class!

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:40:14 -0800
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> > What are you supposed to say in the US? "Excuse me"? I usually say "Sorry".
> > I'm in Canada, but I'm French-speaking (in a bilingual city), so I might
> > have been using the wrong expression for years...
>
>"Excuse me" is the standard.

Interesting. I'm in Vancouver, Canada, and I always say "Sorry" if I 
accidentally bump into someone, but then, if I'm in a rush, I push through 
saying "Excuse me please, sorry, excuse me.." Trying to get through crowds 
while running for your bus that's *right there* is always an interesting 
experience.

kris 

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From: Robin Netherton 
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On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote:

> And yes, it goes along with what Robin was saying. But then she'd done
> a fair amount of study about dental health rather than just looking at
> single cases.

Just as a point of clarification, I haven't myself *done* any study about
dental health. But in my day job I'm a medical editor, and I just finished
editing a report on dental health, which (in a small section of a much
larger discussion of dental disease)  described the history of plaque
diseases. It made a strong point about the correlation of patterns of
plaque disease and tooth decay that corresponded to the availability of
sugar over the past several centuries in Europe. (I fact-checked this
against a history of food just to make sure that the sugar dates were
correct!) Sorry I can't tell you the source of the dental information; the
citation in the report I was editing named a general overview text of
dental disease, which I don't have, and which no doubt includes another
set of footnotes, which might eventually lead to some primary research if
you go through enough steps.

> (Population studies much more accurately reflect what goes on in a
> group of people than single sensational cases. Frankly, you can find
> those same kinds of sensational cases even today when dental health
> has many more advantages.)

Yes, this pertains closely to the point I was trying to make originally --
I wasn't trying to say that caries didn't exist, but that it was not so
universal as many people today assume based on conventional wisdom or
citations of examples. Examples of skeletons with dental decay
don't necessarily paint a clear picture of the norm. Archaeological
studies often focus very closely on individual skeletons, and those with
telling or unusual details -- especially disease evidence -- often get
special attention. This is very useful in medical history, for instance if
you're trying to trace the spread of a disease over time and place. But
individual cases don't provide a good general overview of the proportion
of a disease in a population -- that requires a different sort of study.

Another point of confusion is that writers who have made comparisons and
generalizations of modern vs. historical people's health often have looked
back no further than a few centuries. So if an early 20th century
researcher found strong evidence in an 18th century graveyard for bad
tooth decay, he might very likely have made an incorrect generalization
that this represented the norm before modern treatment methods. You see
the same sort of assumption entrenched in the literature about things like
height, social customs, and -- you've heard this one -- folk costume. Many
of the people who have made definitive statements based on a rather
shallow look-back simply didn't consider that the 17th or 18th century
wasn't representative of all pre-current history, or that things don't
always improve or become more sophisticated over time.

--Robin


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From: Cascio Michael 
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Subject: [h-cost] Munich catalog from Cassandra/neckline finishes
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:45:31 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

I'll second whoever is willing to get you money for
the lovely catalog with the doublet patterns.  Just
let us know how you prefer to do this Cassandra and
explain paypal to those of us that don't do e-bay
(until the new septic system is paid for) so this
could be as little work as possible for you.  I would
be more than happy to send you sewing patterns too as
they came on sale at 1 or 2 dollars each regularly
here.     
     How do I finish the neckline on an Elizabethan
linen shift with a square neck?  I've finally gotten
the embroidery finished.
                         Cassandra

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:56:14 -0700
Status: RO

Yeah, thanks Nicole.  That's the one.  I've always lusted after that
dress.
Well, and I'd want her hair, too.  Or maybe Robin's.....

--sue

N Kipar wrote:
> 
>  --- Sue Clemenger  wrote: > Huh!
> > It looks pseudo-Norman to me.
> 
> Actually, a fair point, it does have something, but then I suppose that's what
> the PreRaphelites drew inspiration from as well?
> 
> > I love pre-Raphaelites, too, although my favorite is that one with the
> > lady going up the stairs, and the gentleman (in chainmail?) coming
> > down.  It's called the Kiss? the meeting? (I'm drawing a blank,
> > here...it's too early in the caffeine scheme of things....)
> 
> It's Fredrick Burton's 'Meeting on the Turret Stairs'
> 
> http://www.illusionsgallery.com/turret-stairs.html
> 
> Lovely, lovely, lovely.
> 
> > And Nicole, I've *seen* pictures of you in Anglo-Saxon (I took Ben's
> > classes), and you look fine.  Honestly.  It's not as fancy or flattering
> > as your later stuff, but I bet it was a lot more practical and
> > lower-maintenance? 
> 
> Yes...... but...... hmm.... just not flattering!
>
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:59:59 -0500
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And again, we're talking about perception... I've been thinking about 
this, reading this thread.

See, I'm a New Yorker. And everyone "knows" what *we're* like!  ;-) And 
at this time of year, we have visitors here from all over the world, and 
especially all over this country, and I work with them. And I've done 
this long enough that I now know some of the scenarios to expect...

For example, a couple of times a week between now and Christmas, this 
will happen. I'll be walking through the selling floor of one of the 
stores I work in (I do product representation in major department 
stores) and someone, usually indeed from the South, sometimes the 
Midwest, will stop me. She will need directions, which is fine - that's 
not officially my job, but it might as well be...  But she won't come 
right out and ask, because that would be impolite. She'll ask how I am, 
she'll admire the store, she may tell me how much she is enjoying my 
city... then she will get around to asking me where the gift wrap 
department is. She must ask me these things, I remind myself, because to 
skip them would be rude. The fact that I am carrying a rather awkward, 
20 lb. case of product does not excuse her from this...

So I will stand there, hanging on to my case, trying to find a better 
angle to hold it, smiling, and mentally chanting the mantra "She is 
trying to be polite, she is trying to be polite" while my  New Yorker's 
mind wonders why she can't cut to the chase, ask me the question, and 
let me go put down the *&^ box! (Which, to us, would be much more 
polite, as it seems to us to be more thoughtful.)

I will also remember that the tourists blocking the sidewalk really 
don't realize that some people walking through tourist spots (in 
midtown) are on their way to work,  and groups of people getting off the 
escalator and stopping while they try to decide where to go next don't 
realize that there are people behind them being delivered inexorably 
into them, and that none of them realize the city isn't this crowded 
when there aren't a lot of tourists.. *G*  And they all really are 
welcome - we throw a great party this time of year!

And when a customer, after I have helped her, tells me how nice I've 
been, and adds, as a "compliment", that I can't be a New Yorker, because 
everyone knows we're not like that, I will politely explain that, as a 
matter of fact, I am a third generation Manhattanite and that most of us 
are really like me... and I won't feel insulted. I know this is a 
perception problem, I just like to set the record straight...  

Yes, our speech is louder and faster than that of people from some other 
parts of the country. That's largely cultural. No, we're not more bossy 
- you said yourself

>the southerners are more quiet and pretty much do their
>controlling without so much noise.  
>
which we would (mis)translate as manipulative! But we would also be 
wrong...

And no, Lalah, you're not in the doghouse... I just like to set the 
record straight! LOL!

Anne

Who probably won't have time to post between now and Christmas - I just 
used my last day off to catch up on a week's worth of posts...



Lalah T Tillinghast wrote:

>
>        Not all Americans are pushy.  Mostly the pushy ones are from the
>Northeast or California.  Southern and mid western Americans are usually
>quite polite.  
>
>        I have said it before and will say it again - Americans are all
>completely different.  
>


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From: kris 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: history on yer doorstep,
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:02:01 -0800
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>Actually, CE stands for Current Era.  BCE is Before Current Era.  You
>could say that it's the 'political correct' forms of BC and AD.  It's
>more of a way of acknowledging the fact that there are a LOT of
>non-Christians who use the same year numbering system as Christians.
>
>Sarah

I was taught ( in high school history) that BCE was Before Common Era, 
which was 1950. CE is Common Era which is anything after 1950. Weird.

kris 

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On 28 Nov 2002 at 11:33, Genie wrote:

> Personal idiosyncrasy as I'm a lefty; fork in left hand, knife in
> right, never bother with switching hands that way.  Also, always sit
> on a corner so I don't bump the person on my left when eating.

And where are you from? Email address is not giving 
clues :(

That sounds as if we just found another Rule that 
varies, BTW: I was always taught that elbows stay 
IN, on both sides. Touching your own sides, ideally. 
So as not to bump the person you're sitting next to. 
Sounds like a combination of personal space and 
eating variation?





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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 07:08:42 -0000
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On 29 Nov 2002 at 0:59, A F Murphy wrote:

> And again, we're talking about perception... I've been thinking about
> this, reading this thread.

Althought looking through, I can see scenarios where 
the tourist just isn't *thinking*.

> So I will stand there, hanging on to my case, trying to find a better
> angle to hold it, smiling, and mentally chanting the mantra "She is
> trying to be polite, she is trying to be polite" while my  New
> Yorker's mind wonders why she can't cut to the chase, ask me the
> question, and let me go put down the *&^ box! (Which, to us, would be
> much more polite, as it seems to us to be more thoughtful.)

Exactly. She can see the box, she must know it's 
causing you inconvenience: why not put brain in 
gear?
 
> I will also remember that the tourists blocking the sidewalk really
> don't realize that some people walking through tourist spots (in
> midtown) are on their way to work, 

This is possible: but surely the sight of someone in  a 
hurry is easy to recognise? And to get out of the way 
of?

> and groups of people getting off
> the escalator and stopping while they try to decide where to go next
> don't realize that there are people behind them being delivered
> inexorably into them, 

They don't? Are they unbelievably stupid, or what? Is 
there something difficult about looking at what's 
going on around you and reacting to it?



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On 28 Nov 2002 at 23:02, kris wrote:

> I was taught ( in high school history) that BCE was Before Common Era,
> which was 1950. CE is Common Era which is anything after 1950. Weird.

So what's the significance of 1950?



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From: Robin Netherton 
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On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, kris wrote:

> I was taught ( in high school history) that BCE was Before Common Era,
> which was 1950. CE is Common Era which is anything after 1950. Weird.

I have never heard this usage. In the academic circles I've run in, we
have used Common Era (CE) routinely for decades, and it always is the same
as A.D., with the same numbers and same zero point. BCE means Before
Common Era, and is the same as B.C. Look, for instance, at some websites
on Jewish history and you'll see this usage all over the place.

I have never heard "Current Era," though I would guess it might be a
logical back-formation of CE by someone who forgot the term "Common Era,"
and so maybe has passed into parlance.

As for 1950, I understand that is used as a base year when doing carbon-14
dating (as I just learned on another list this week). The term for
reporting a carbon-14 date is "Before Present." Perhaps that's what you're
remembering?

There's a nice summary of BP here, though this page ignores the term "CE"
while including an explanation of "BCE"; odd.

http://vcourseware4.calstatela.edu/VirtualDating/files/RC_3.html

--Robin

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> > > I'm still puzzled by the references to eating with the fork
tines down,
> > > though.  I can see it with foods that you stab, like peices of
meat, but
> > > what about loose litle bits like peas?  How do you do it?
> >
> >with patience.... a small smile, an attempt at grace, and a LOT of
patience...
>
> The way I saw it done in Australia, almost 20 years ago, was that
the fork
> was held in the non-dominant hand, tines down, and all the mushy
bits were
> smeared onto the back of it, before popping the tine-end into the
mouth.  I
> can't say if this is English or not, nor what class, or lack of it,
this
> might represent.  But at the time I marveled at the difference
between how
> I then ate (switch fork between hands for every bite of meat cut up)
and
> what I was seeing.  I now eat pretty much that way, unless Miss
Manners is
> watching, in which case I eat like I did at my grandmother's table.

[I missed the start of this thread so forgive me if I've repeated
things that have already been said]

That's close to the way I was taught (having lived in Australia all my
life) and it was fairly widespread. I wouldn't say it was specific to
a class but it was a sign of good manners, as was putting the knife
and fork together when you had finished eating and keeping your elbows
off the table (you can rest your forearm on the table but not your
elbows).

The rule about the elbows has declined over the years but my
Grandmother (from the upper class) was very strict on it.

I still don't get this concept of changing the hand your fork is in
though.

But to paraphrase Obelix "These Americans are crazy" :-)

Paul
--
Good planning and organisation are just crutches for people who can't
handle stress and caffeine.
http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder
Costumier & Reprobate

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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 03:22:28 -0500
Status: RO

On Thursday 28 November 2002 12:37 pm, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
> On Thursday 28 November 2002 12:35 am, Robin Netherton wrote:

My apologies.  I failed to finish my response before I accidentally hit 
"send".  I will cut out the parts I've already responded to this morning and 
proceed to answer the rest, to avoid duplication.


> > > That brings me to my other problem, which is would a fur or fur-lined
> > > piece hang the way tippets are shown to hang in medieval art?  (I'd
> > > have the same problem with the "tippet as brocade" hypothesis>)  Upon
> > > reflection, I agree with you that the answer is "yes" for the woman
> > > shown on the April page of the Tres Riches Heures, but that
> > > representation is different from any other picture of a woman in a
> > > tippet I've ever seen.
> >
> > Is it? I think people often expect tippets to be light and "fluttery."
> > Perhaps that's because tippets are often depicted that way in redrawings
> > by artists trying to be "realistic" in a modern style, or because we
> > expect they will be based on the assumption that they're fabric, or
> > because we've seen them that way in (fabric) reproduction costumes. But
> > in the sources, tippets tend to hang straight down. They don't twist on
> > themselves or curve or sway. They have some substance and weight. 

I never thought of tippets as being fluttery, but I didn't think of them as 
being heavy like fur, either.  I guess I thought of them as drapey, sort of 
consistent with the texture of heavy silk.

Maybe part of my problem that the idea of tippets as long fur flaps doesn't 
strike me as an attractive fashion.  That's okay, however.  If I don't like 
it, I need not bother to try to reproduce it (I haven't tried to reproduce a 
gown with tippets to date, and now it's much less likely that I ever 
will....)

> >The TRH
> > April lady's tippets, which drape over her hip, are wider than most of
> > those that appear earlier (e.g. Machaut) but they're not unusual.
> > A very
> > similar look appears, for instance, in figure 30 (a wedding scene,
> > Parement master, 1380 France) in _Margaret Scott's Visual History of
> > Fashion: 14th and 15th centuries_ -- to just grab the first available
> > book on my shelf.

I only have one of the Visual History of Fashion series.  I wish I had more of 
them.

> > > Granted.  Most 19th c. sources are pure bunk when discussing or
> > > depicting the Middle Ages.  My recollections are primarily of (color)
> > > reproductions of miniatures and some redrawings, but I'd need to go
> > > back and actively look for period art to test my memory.
> >
> > You'll have fun doing that, I think, if you haven't seen the works for a
> > while. I have often found myself surprised when I go back to something I
> > thought I knew well to discover some substantially new visual reading
> > that had gone right by me earlier, because my eyes weren't well enough
> > developed the last time I saw it.

Fair enough.  I'm still surprised at how I misviewed the lady in the tippets 
from the April plate of Tres Riches Heures....

By the way, you said that lady's overgown is actually ultramarine, not black 
as I had perceived.  I've seen the print in several editions, (including a 
good quality print from the British Museum, which currently hangs on my 
office wall) and it's black in all of them, so far as I can tell.

Now, it's also possible that the original is, in fact, ultramarine.  It also 
seems, to me, that it would be possible that even if the original was 
ultramarine that ultramarine might not have been the original color.  I tend 
to be skeptical about whether the current color of a fabric, or a piece of 
art, is highly indicative of the color that the dyer/artist originally 
intended after 400 or so years....



> > > I'm not trying to argue with you.  I still think your theory is
> > > logical and fits the known facts, such as they are, better than any
> > > other I can think of.  And I really appreciate the effort you put into
> > > this reply; thank you very much for it.  I'm just trying to figure out
> > > why something still bothers me about it, that's all.
> >
> > If you still feel that after you've taken a closer look at the sources,
> > please let me know. If my logic doesn't hold up for someone, I want to
> > know that -- that may mean I have to rethink something.

Will do.  Thanks again.



> > 
> >
> > > >This book, as it
> > > > happens, was used as the basis of research by quite a few later
> > > > costume researchers.
> > >
> > > Sigh.  I wonder just how often that has happened over the years.
> > > Probably more often than we'd like to think.
> >
> > This has actually been a major focus in my research. I do a lecture on
> > the development of errors in costume sources going back to the Victorians
> > and earlier. As part of this, I take a piece of medieval artwork and show
> > how a series of costume historians interpreted/redrew it over the course
> > of a century or so, each basing his work on the previous writers. It's
> > like a game of telephone, as the changes stack up incrementally. By the
> > time you're five or six steps away from the original, the differences are
> > enormous.

That would be interesting.  I'd love to hear your lecture sometime.
> >
> > > "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
> > >  --Flannery O'Connor
> >
> > I love this.

Thanks.

I saw a reference to this quote in a email, I think, and then used Google to 
track it down.  

I like to include quotes in my sig block that are expressive of my views of 
life in general.  I change them every few months or so.  

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Subject: Re: NZ and LotR Re: teeth Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:19:03 +1300
Status: RO

Hehee, been busy sewing up a storm today so didn't see all these posts til
just now. All 106 messages most of which were from this list;)


> Ohhhhh, I was about to make one too! Well, actually, not befiore I haven't
got
> my new Victorian type corset. Actually, I didn't want to make a copy, just
what
> I thought I wanted it to look like. I am very much looking forward to
pictures
> of yours! And may I ask the odd question on how you did it when you are
done?
> *G*

Sure:) I'm probably going to make a write up on it after the picnic. And yes
there will be photos.. just artfully taken as I have put on a bit of weight
lately and this *is* a white dress after all;)

I ran around trying to find something to line the sleeves in as I knew I
couldn't find what was actually used (well it would have been bought in the
same city I live in but it was 3 years ago that it would have been made;) )

> I can tell you, it's pretty simple: PreRaphaelites. It is an almost exact
copy
> of 'The Lady of Shalott' by John Wiliam Waterhouse. When I saw the first
photos
> of the dress it struck me as awfully familair, and indeed it is:
> http://bertc.com/waterhouse_6.htm

One of my all time fav PRB paintings:) And along with The Accolade almost
certainly the inspirations:)

But as I put the sleeves on (which alone took 1.8m of fabric;) ) I noticed
it really stronly resembles an early Tudor shape. But with the deep
sleeves;) I think there is something in that book Evolution of Fashion (the
book of theatrical costume patterns in 1:8 scale not the Kyoto book).

It doesn't really look it in film stills, but I was playing with the sleeves
after my marathon effort this afternoon;) and you can fold them back like a
later Tudor sleeve. I may just see if I can get some other styles during a
photo shoot;) As this will be held at the Domain it'll be nice and grassy
and probably full of other people in costumes to have in the background;)

> I LOVE the PreRaphaelites.

Oh me too. I had seen a reference to the PRB when I was 12 and when I found
out just what they were I felt like I was coming home. And then as I found
out about why they formed and the narrative aspects to their paintings I
couldn't help but fall in love with them:)

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume


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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:23:46 +1300
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> I'm not sure whether the dress you're talking about is the one that I've
> seen in publicity shots. The one I've seen has a white dress with a
> sleeve that looks like it's taken from "The Accolade" by Edmund Blair
> Leighton, and a brown-ish corselet-type thing that looks like one of
> those bad attempts to recreate 12th-century "bliaut"-style dresses.

Actually that brown velvet jerkin thing is worn during her sparring with
Arragorn. And actually worn over a blue... thing;) That creamy thing worn
underneath.. I dunno. I've only seen it in publicity material not film
stills so I have no idea what it is supposed to be worn with. They also did
something very strange with it on the box of the doll. They have that sleeve
and then the body of the cream wool dress..

So no it wasn't an attempt to be a Bliaut, I think it was just a throw
together for publicity:)

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume


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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:32:03 +1300
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> http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/4981
> I think it's seriously lovely because it is totally fantasy, and, as I
said
> PreRaphaleite. Honestly, you wouldn't want the heorine in Anglo-Saxon
dress, no
> matter if pre- or post Christian in my opinion. I have them, I know them,
I
> wear them, and they are NOT flattering. I hate wearing any kind of
Anglo-saxon,
> I feel like looking like a fat sausage. *G*

Heheh, well I unfortunately made mine to the size of my DTD but i'm put on a
bit of weight since then.. well yoyoed rather annoyingly, so I felt very
much like a sausage in mine.. but i managed to find an inch in the back and
sides to let it out. Now it's not so bad;) Doesn't hang like it does on that
dummy but ah well.

And it's *white* I can't hide in black like I normally do;) Ah well. Two
days and I'll be wearing the bugger.

I just need to trim the belt, tie the sleeves and hem the skirt (I might
leave off the trim round the cuff and armscye). I'm a bit worried about the
hemming actually. I decide to flatline it rather than bag line it and with
the curve of the hem and everything.. eh, I'll probably sew bias tape to the
edge and then hand sew the top edge of the bias tape to the lining.

Those sleeves are so heavy too... wow.

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume


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From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures (was: Re: body type periods)
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:30:36 +0200 (EET)
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Mary Temple wrote:

> Out of curiosity - are there places in Europe that add fluoride to their
> drinking water? It's done all over the US as a way to improve dental
> health...

Yes, at least in Finland, but in some places that has caused problems. Too
much flouride in the water causes rather permanently yellow teeth.

-- 
Lynoure Rajamaki
lynoure@tuug.fi



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>The rule about the elbows has declined over the years but my
>Grandmother (from the upper class) was very strict on it.

The older of my two grandmothers, not upper class, also insisted.  Her 
daughter, my maiden aunt, was the strict one.

>I still don't get this concept of changing the hand your fork is in
>though.

Many Americans never could figure it out either, and many of my generation, 
and younger, have adopted the fork-doesn't-switch-hands method.

The other thing at least the maiden aunt always insisted on was that one 
never stuck the fork into anything going straight into the mouth, but 
always lifted the morsel to the mouth on the flat of the tines.  I don't 
know where the family got these manners, but none of her nieces/nephews 
wanted to sit next to her at family dinners.  She would correct ones' table 
manners in front of people, where her mother would wait till it was just 
the two of you at the table, like at lunch or something.


Kayta

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/----\   /---\))

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Munich catalog from Cassandra/neckline finishes
From: Cassandra Greer 
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:43:21 +0100
Status: RO

Hi All!

So far several people have 'ordered' this catalog through me - all using
Paypal. I have sent 3 books so far using this system.

If you have never used PayPal before, it's not too hard, but go to
http://www.paypal.com/ and read through the site so you have an idea of what
you are getting yourself into.

Also we figured out that the money transfer costs _always_ come to me so the
amount of money you transfer needs to reflect this. So the cost for book,
shipping (by boat) and money transfer is 31.60 Euro, 2 books is 61.00 Euro.
Birgitt at the museum is also looking into seeing if they might be allowed
to use Paypal too so I wouldn't have to do it. But until then it is not
problem for me to do it.

Anyway once you have done your homework on paypal and have an account set up
and verified, then get in contact with me, so I know you want to order, and
then, well, send the money to cassandra@greer.de.

Cass :)

-- 
Cassandra Greer
Spilhofstr. 4a 
81927 München
+49 (089) 95720521

cassandra@greer.de
 
Veni, vidi, scripsi!


> I'll second whoever is willing to get you money for
> the lovely catalog with the doublet patterns.  Just
> let us know how you prefer to do this Cassandra and
> explain paypal to those of us that don't do e-bay
> (until the new septic system is paid for) so this
> could be as little work as possible for you.  I would
> be more than happy to send you sewing patterns too as
> they came on sale at 1 or 2 dollars each regularly
> here.     
>    How do I finish the neckline on an Elizabethan
> linen shift with a square neck?  I've finally gotten
> the embroidery finished.
>                        Cassandra
> 
> __________________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 04:57:38 2002
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Someone asked about Dorothy Hartley's books on this list a while back. I'm pretty sure my notions about the mediaeval origins of modern table manners came from her "Food in England", but that was published 40-50 years ago, so theories may have changed since then...

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 05:46:44 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] Photos of my 1700 stays
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There we are, finally, I have a couple of pix of the flaming orange shot
red/yellow silk 1700 stays that Ninua Mikhaila made and that are worn
underneath the mantua. Thought the pix are funny, I'm dressed as a 1950s
Hollywood Pirate Lady (compete with 1950s BIG make-up *G*) the photos were
taken at the CGUK (Costume Guild UK) get-together in Warwick.

http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/pirate1.jpg

and
http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/pirate2.jpg

Nicole 
P.S. I Love that long dark human hair wig!

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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You mean this one?
It is in dutch.
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=803465490

Greetings,
        Deredere


Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

>
>> I just dug it out of my pattern-treasure-trove and it's unfortunately 
>> from 1996
>> (when the godchild-to-be wasn't even the remotest twinkle in my 
>> friend's eyes
>> *G*) and it is simply called 'Barbie' and is a Burda Special 
>> magazine, and is
>> all in German. I don't know if they still make Burda specials for 
>> Barbie, and I
>> can't find out unless I nip into a magazine shop over Christmas in 
>> germany.
>>
>> The historical costumes in that mag are to die for *G*
>
>
> Gosh, if it's unavailable now, could you see making a photocopy for 
> me?  I could send you a photocopy of something I have that's about 
> that long (what would you like?) by way of trade.
>
>
> Kayta
>
>    //// \\\
>   ////-@@\\\
>  ((((   7 )))
>   (((  <> ))))
>      )   ((((((
> /----\   /---\))
>
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 --- Deredere & Owen Iskander  wrote: > You mean this one?
> It is in dutch.
> http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=803465490
> 

YES!!! Cayta, get it while you can, I am sure you don't need to be able to read
the instructions.

Nicole

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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N Kipar wrote:

> --- Deredere & Owen Iskander  wrote: > You mean this one?
>  
>
>>It is in dutch.
>>http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=803465490
>>
>>    
>>
>
>YES!!! Cayta, get it while you can, I am sure you don't need to be able to read
>the instructions.
>
I won't be so sure :-)
She/he only ships within the Netherlands.
But if you ask, it is maby not a problem.
And if it is,let it send to me and I can send it to you if you want.

Greetings,
        Deredere

>
>Nicole
>
>=====
>Nicole Kipar M.A.
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/
>Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Everything you'll ever need on one web page
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>
>  
>


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N Kipar wrote:



  
 --- Deredere & Owen Iskander <triade@kabelfoon.nl> wrote: > You mean this one?
  

  

    
It is in dutch.
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=803465490

    

  

  

YES!!! Cayta, get it while you can, I am sure you don't need to be able to read
the instructions.



I won't be so sure :-) 

She/he only ships within the Netherlands.

But if you ask, it is maby not a problem.

And if it is,let it send to me and I can send it to you if you want.



Greetings,

        Deredere



  

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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N Kipar wrote:

> --- Deredere & Owen Iskander  wrote: > You mean this one?
>  
>
>>It is in dutch.
>>http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=803465490
>>
>>    
>>
>
>YES!!! Cayta, get it while you can, I am sure you don't need to be able to read
>the instructions.
>
I won't be so sure :-)
She/he only ships within the Netherlands.
But if you ask, it is maby not a problem.
And if it is,let it send to me and I can send it to you if you want.

Greetings,
        Deredere
But your probably right aboud the pattern instruktions :-[

>Nicole
>
>=====
>Nicole Kipar M.A.
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/
>Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Everything you'll ever need on one web page
>from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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 N Kipar wrote:

 

   
  
 --- Deredere & Owen Iskander <triade@kabelfoon.nl> wrote: > You mean this one?
  

   
  
     
    
It is in dutch.
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=803465490

    

   

   
  

YES!!! Cayta, get it while you can, I am sure you don't need to be able to read
the instructions.

 

 I won't be so sure
:-) 

 She/he only ships within the Netherlands.

 But if you ask, it is maby not a problem.

 And if it is,let it send to me and I can send it to you if you want.



 Greetings,

         Deredere 

But your probably right aboud the pattern instruktions :-[ 

 

   
  
Nicole

=====
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating
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With all the discussion of eating habits on the list, I thought I would
do a bit of empirical research yesterday. I ate my Thanksgiving dinner
using my best approximation of the European/English method. I did not
switch fork hands, and I ate with the tines down. Some of the results
could stem from inexperience, but this is what I found:

Compared to the American Method, I ate slower and took smaller bites,
mostly because I couldn't load the back of the fork with as much food as
would fit on the 'tines up' side. I also found that my left hand,
especially the little and ring fingers, began cramping by the end of the
meal probably due to not being used to keeping a grip on something for
that long a period of time. Overall, I found that the EM was workable and
not too hard to use, while I had to actively think about NOT switching
hands and using the AM. I plan to continue the experiment the rest of the
weekend so we will see if any of the results change as I get more used to
the EM.


Karen

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Seamstrix@juno.com wrote :

> Compared to the American Method, I ate slower and took smaller bites,
> mostly because I couldn't load the back of the fork with as much food as
> would fit on the 'tines up' side. 

The idea is that most things should be stabbed (though probably not peas). Using the fork as a spoon, I agree that tines-down is tricky.

I'd guess that more of your food is prepared in a manner suitable for spooning, whereas ours is intended for stabbing?



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michaela wrote:
> Actually that brown velvet jerkin thing is worn during her sparring with
> Arragorn.

	Actually during the sparring scene she's wearing a brown 
"jumper" that looks like a laced sideless surcoat idea that 
is also full skirted and slit all the way down the sides 
anyway. You can see the gap in the sides and the lacing in 
some of the pics of the sparring scene, and you can see them 
much better in some of the courtyard scenes. yes, she wears 
it over a blue underdress/


> And actually worn over a blue... thing;) That creamy thing worn
> underneath.. 

	There is a scene where she seems to wear the brown velvet 
vest over the blue underdress (fighting the Uruk-hai) and 
more commonly seen over a cream dress that has a keyhole 
neck. This is not the same white dress you guys are making 
that has a V-neck! The sleeves are also quite different.


>I dunno. I've only seen it in publicity material not film
> stills so I have no idea what it is supposed to be worn with. They also did
> something very strange with it on the box of the doll. They have that sleeve
> and then the body of the cream wool dress..

	The box with the 12" doll wearing a fabric costume (as 
opposed to the 6" action figures) shows a picture that has 
been very photoshopped and is a combination of about 3 
different things!

	If anyone is interested there is quite a bit of info 
(complete with pictures and close ups from the Toronto 
Exhibit) about Eowyn and her various outfits on 
http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Human/Eowyn.htm

	-Judy Mitchell (back to lurking)

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Jayzus! YOu weren't kidding about the "flaming orange" part!
That's wonderful .....
--sue, who would cheerfully kill for the wig, too ;-)

N Kipar wrote:
> 
> There we are, finally, I have a couple of pix of the flaming orange shot
> red/yellow silk 1700 stays that Ninua Mikhaila made and that are worn
> underneath the mantua. Thought the pix are funny, I'm dressed as a 1950s
> Hollywood Pirate Lady (compete with 1950s BIG make-up *G*) the photos were
> taken at the CGUK (Costume Guild UK) get-together in Warwick.
> 
> http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/pirate1.jpg
> 
> and
> http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/temp/pirate2.jpg
> 
> Nicole
> P.S. I Love that long dark human hair wig!
>
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Uh...not that I know of.  I've seen (and eaten) food in both the US and
UK now, and didn't really notice any stabbing/scooping differences.  But
then, I didn't see anyone eat peas, either.
--sue

jane@williams.nildram.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Seamstrix@juno.com wrote :
> 
> > Compared to the American Method, I ate slower and took smaller bites,
> > mostly because I couldn't load the back of the fork with as much food as
> > would fit on the 'tines up' side.
> 
> The idea is that most things should be stabbed (though probably not peas). Using the fork as a spoon, I agree that tines-down is tricky.
> 
> I'd guess that more of your food is prepared in a manner suitable for spooning, whereas ours is intended for stabbing?
> 
>
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 --- Judy Mitchell  wrote: > 

> 	There is a scene where she seems to wear the brown velvet 
> vest over the blue underdress (fighting the Uruk-hai) and 
> more commonly seen over a cream dress that has a keyhole 
> neck. This is not the same white dress you guys are making 
> that has a V-neck! The sleeves are also quite different.

Actually, just for the records, I don't _DO_ copies of things from films,
that's just not creative in my books. I just want to make a PreRahaelite dress
that happens to me MY idea of an Eowyn white dress (and is not one of the
dreadful Anglo-Saxon unflattering things *G*) worn over a Victorian corset in
my case. I make whatever I feel like, and it might well be similar to what she
wears in the film, but it will not, not ever, be a copy, coz I can't see the
point in copying something. That's my personal opinion. :-)

I love the Victorian idea of those PreRaphelite style medievaleque 'fairy-tale'
dresses. Sooooooooo pretty *G* hey, and they are historical costumes, after
all, they are 19th century fancy dres sones in a way.

Nicole


=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Wonderful colour Nicole!!!
Nice pics.

Marcus.

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From: "Kate M Bunting" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:14:37 +0000
Status: RO

Kayta wrote:

>The way I saw it done in Australia, almost 20 years ago, was that the fork 
>was held in the non-dominant hand, tines down, and all the mushy bits >were smeared onto the back of it, before popping the tine-end into the 
>mouth.  

Yes, I'd say that describes the "polite" British way of eating peas!




Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume gallery Webpage
From: randl 
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:32:47 -0500
Status: RO

i'm soooo glad someone else thinks this way!. i gravitate to the italian
fashions of the late 16thc because the emphasis was more on the fit and the
textiles. i used to play extensively in the cavalier(1630 english) styles,
but got a little bored w/satin:)
i love gorgeous fabrics and think it's a damn shame to put so much shiny
trim and glitzy findings, you tend to lose the richness and end up looking
tawdry. 
i find i am more armani than liberacci:)
 
to all of my fellow americans (with your glowing white teeth, fake boobs and
bad manners) hope you had a good holiday/turkey/trading spaces
marathon/sleep in.
laurie
> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 9
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:00:56 -0600
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume gallery Webpage
> From: seamstrix@juno.com
> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
> Very nice pieces! If the proof is in the pudding, then you can certainly
> consider your patterns a success. The red dress looks a bit familiar
> tho..... I was one of the mid-level judges that sent her to the finals
> for her prize! I knew she would take it too. I knew the competition
> (Heck, I chose her competition!) and aside from the fact that it's a
> terrific dress, there really wasn't much to hold a candle to it. As an
> observation- there seems to be a trend currently for people to load their
> gowns with all sorts of trim and beads and doo-dads, whether the design
> really warrants it or not. While many gowns (particularly of Queen E) are
> very detailed, there are a great number of dresses which aren't
> over-wrought with doo-dads and which let the simple elegance of the
> fabric and design show to advantage. To my mind it's the difference
> between the nouveau riche piling all sorts of big flashy jewelry on to
> show that they can afford it, and the 'old money' having just a subtle
> piece or two demonstrating their inate good taste.
> 
> My Tuppence Worth,
> 
> 
> Karen
> 
> 
> 

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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:46:36 -0500
Status: RO

- Original Message -----
From: 

> I'd guess that more of your food is prepared in a manner suitable for
spooning, whereas ours is intended for stabbing?

Maybe - the same way most Asian food is made to be eaten with chopsticks. It
can be eaten with fork and knife, like many people do, but once you start
eating with chopsticks you realize it was really made to be eaten that way.

I wonder how that influenced food in the Middle Ages, when forks were not
widely used...

And how did they manage those long sleeves? I can manage them if I have
someone to serve me and pass me every dish, pour drinks, etc. and I think
that was the preferred method at the time also!
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 10:57:50 2002
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From: A F Murphy 
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:57:19 -0500
Status: RO

Well they're not thinking, but they're not thinking about something they 
have been trained not to think about, if you see what I mean! In the 
first, people have been firmly taught, from birth, that it is rude to 
just ask a question, especially if that is essentially demanding 
service! They feel that would be treating me like a maid, or some kind 
of inferior... so they must show they know I'm a lady. It's past 
thinking, it is knee jerk reaction, it is ingrained...

As for the others, partly many of them have never been in such a crowd, 
partly, again, they know that we are hurrying because we are just New 
Yorkers who are always in a hurry for no reason *G* , partly I think 
they really don't grasp that out tourist areas are smack in the middle 
of our business districts (I gather that's not true in most American 
cities) and they don't know that we work many different hours, and yes, 
I'm starting work today at noon! (And coming home at 8...)

It is innocent unthinking behavior, oblivion, rather than rude 
thoughtlessness, if you will - not thinking about something they don't 
know to think about, as it is completely outside their experience.


Costume Content... I can sometimes tell Japanese tourists from 
Japanese-Americans because some of the women walk differently - toe 
first, not heel first, and a very slight slide to the gait.  I assume it 
shows they are used to sandals? I've seen it once or twice in very young 
men, but not mature ones...

Anne

Jane Williams wrote:

>On 29 Nov 2002 at 0:59, A F Murphy wrote:
>
>>And again, we're talking about perception... I've been thinking about
>>this, reading this thread.
>>
>
>Althought looking through, I can see scenarios where 
>the tourist just isn't *thinking*.
>
>>So I will stand there, hanging on to my case, trying to find a better
>>angle to hold it, smiling, and mentally chanting the mantra "She is
>>trying to be polite, she is trying to be polite" while my  New
>>Yorker's mind wonders why she can't cut to the chase, ask me the
>>question, and let me go put down the *&^ box! (Which, to us, would be
>>much more polite, as it seems to us to be more thoughtful.)
>>
>
>Exactly. She can see the box, she must know it's 
>causing you inconvenience: why not put brain in 
>gear?
> 
>
>>I will also remember that the tourists blocking the sidewalk really
>>don't realize that some people walking through tourist spots (in
>>midtown) are on their way to work, 
>>
>
>This is possible: but surely the sight of someone in  a 
>hurry is easy to recognise? And to get out of the way 
>of?
>
>>and groups of people getting off
>>the escalator and stopping while they try to decide where to go next
>>don't realize that there are people behind them being delivered
>>inexorably into them, 
>>
>
>They don't? Are they unbelievably stupid, or what? Is 
>there something difficult about looking at what's 
>going on around you and reacting to it?
>
>
>
>


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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:59:21 GMT
Status: RO

Audrey Bergeron-Morin  wrote :

> Maybe - the same way most Asian food is made to be eaten with chopsticks. It
> can be eaten with fork and knife, like many people do, but once you start
> eating with chopsticks you realize it was really made to be eaten that way.

Very true.

> I wonder how that influenced food in the Middle Ages, when forks were not
> widely used...

I can point you at huge great documents on that one, if you really want to know: my main hobby is medieval cooking, costume is just a sideline :)

As you've probably guessed, food was designed to be eaten with a spoon, fingers, or knife. Do not serve it so hot as to burn fingers :)

> And how did they manage those long sleeves? I can manage them if I have
> someone to serve me and pass me every dish, pour drinks, etc. and I think
> that was the preferred method at the time also!

I happily eat (with knife and spoon) in fairly large sleeves, but I think it's true to say that huge sleeves indicate high rank? And high rank would have involved a personal page.



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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:44:24 -0500
Status: RO

        Of course, it was wrong of me to classify all the people from the
Northeast as being loud and pushy.  That is as bad as calling all
Americans the same.  Bad habit from a childhood in the south where we
were actually afraid of Yankees.  Sorry,

        <<>>

        I used to work at Epcot and getting to work was sometimes a
nightmare because of the "guests".  No one at a Disney attraction is a
customer or tourist, they are all guests.  Walking across the park in
costume would be like trying to run a gauntlet and they never considered
that I might be trying to get to work on time when they asked me to take
their pictures.  And, of course, as any Disney employee knows all the
cast members had to be polite and cooperative.  But as a southerner, it
was hard for me to deal with people who didn't do the polite thing first,
but who just shouted orders at me.   I used to see a lot of the bumper
stickers that said "Not all of us are on vacation".  That wasn't allowed
in the Disney parking lots or I would have had one too.  Guess it is the
same everywhere from Orlando to New York to London or Rome.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Nicole, you always look wonderful in your costumes.  Wish I had your
looks.  

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From: kat@grendal.rain.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Breastfeedin was Re: teeth
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:26:31 -0800
Status: RO

I wrote: 
> >These are teeth that do not develop properly due to inadequate diet
> or illness from prenatal through childhood until time of eruption.
> Disruption in the diet or illness anywhere during that time can lead
> to inadequate enamel being laid down, thus leading to hypoplasia.>

Mel wrote:
> There have been a few studies done on this in relation to gender, most
> show class as the issue over gender I believe

Class counts because of the diet considerations, although illness 
does play a part as well. Gender issues could, however, come into 
play in some cases because of the bias toward "the heir" and to the 
future heavy workers. While this bias isn't as strong as in some 
cultures, it was probably sometimes an issue.
> 
> >The medieval mom had a different pattern of breastfeeding than the
> modern mom.
> 
> You are saying that medieval mothers did not demand feed then ? What
> evidence of that is there ?

The breastfed babies with dental problems are the ones who use a 
breast for a pacifier, not "on demand." I have no doubt that the baby 
of the past was demand fed. However, the amount of effort the baby 
expended for "demand" was probably higher. Many modern moms 
(especially those with baby tooth problems) have a *very* low 
threshold for "demand" and do not even seem to look for things like 
"baby too hot" "baby too cold" "baby just fussy because of 
developmental growth phase" "baby wet/dirty" but just stick the baby 
back on. Some let the baby continuously hold the breast in the mouth 
without any time away from the breast. (Those poor moms are often 
exhausted and rarely are getting their housework done. You can't tell 
me that the medieval mom had time for that kind of behavior. Baby 
would often be slung over the back while mom worked in the field, 
because she had her gleaning basket or something else in front of her 
while she worked a field, or had other work right where the modern 
snuglie would be.)

Also, too few of our moms have good support systems for encouraging 
breastfeeding. Often the La Leche league is too militant about it 
(which is just as bad sometimes as not supportive. I would frequently 
send them to one chapter over one which might be more local for them 
for that reason). And family members are often more discouraging than 
helpful. They have no one to tell them "yes, it's ok to go do your 
housework even if the baby fusses a little" like they would in the 
past when breastfeeding was the constant.

Fortunately, some have pediatricians like me who are interested in 
breastfeeding issues such as this. I have a *very* high rate of 
successfully breastfed babies (including those with working mothers) 
who often breastfeed well past a year of age. (Phooey on those states 
who think it's "sexual abuse" to let an infant breastfeed past a year 
of age. There's lots of evidence that shows that there are still 
medical benefits to breastfeeding past that age.)

> >They *think* it is more
> natural, but yet it doesn't take into consideration the different
> attitude that mothers of the past had. Now it tends to be "don't let
> the baby cry at any cost, even if it means stopping your current
> activity." A medieval mom couldn't do that. She had to get things done
> no matter what.>
> 
> It is perfectly possible to breast feed & continue with most
> activities. Stopping does not need to come into it. Demand feeding is
> more natural, witness most animals with the very young esp.

I never said they didn't demand feed. However, the animal does not 
let the kitten, puppy, etc have its mouth constantly on the nipple. 
She gets up and goes to eat. She gets up to go hunting. She gets up 
to go do other things. She pushes the babies away while she cleans 
them. Etc. This is a *very* different breastfeeding pattern than that 
of the "bottlemouth breastfeeder."

> >And chances are that they didn't notice the
> "noise" that is currently one of the big problems with many moms.>
> 
> Again the noise is  speculated to be a survival factor and the desire
> to react to it influencial in what makes a good mother (in
> evolutionary terms)

There is a difference between the crying of a hungry baby who needs 
to be fed and one who is crying for other reasons. The bottle or 
"bottlemouth" baby is given their bottle for *every* type of cry, not 
just for the "survival crying" reasons. It's a big difference.

> >They can't let the baby cry at night or they upset the neighbors. In
> medieval times this would have been considered a "normal" noise and
> not one to shush at all costs.
> 
> I'd love to see the evidence for this. Have you read the studies on
> cot death & babies in cultures who arn't forced to sleep alone & cry ?
> This suggestion, that crying is normal noise,  is not consistant with
> primate behaviour IMHO, and I've not seen anything supporting such as
> view in medieval litrature, please have you any refs ?.

Yes, many. And I've worked with some of the big names in cot death 
here in the US over the years. Unfortunately, most of my research 
materials and my references are packed away. I only have the ones 
available that are of most use on a daily basis.

However, if you have access to Medline or something like Index 
Medicus or other medically based research engine, then I suspect you 
could easily find it yourself. You search engines and such for the 
general public don't have access to the medical literature (except 
those which have a lot of non-medical readerships.)

Also, the important literature about this has only been coming out 
for the past 10-15 years at most. A lot of it started with the "Back 
to the Back" campaign for prevention of cot death. I've been in 
pediatrics for more than 20 years and a *lot* has changed in that 
time. We *never* used to see breastfed "bottlemouth" in our 
breastfeeding moms until more recently when there was a switch from 
"demand" feed to "constant" feed in many of the moms.

Kat Russell


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 12:41:42 2002
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Fur and dagging
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Hi all,

I've been looking at medieval garments in the light of my reading on
the use of fur in that period, and it occurs to me that dagging may
have arisen as a form of decoration as a result of using fur as
lining.  For example the pelt of the Russian squirrel is a rectangle
with triangles at both ends, and in order to get a straight line at a
lower edge the furrier would have had to cut off the triangular end.
Leave it on, and there would be a serrated edge looking very similar
to what we see on many garments.
Any thoughts, anyone?

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 12:50:44 2002
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From: "Allison Thurman" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Regency corsets
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I've read everyone's replies and am coming to the conclusion that I will
need the corset. While the idea of being a mervielleuse with no support at
all is appealing from the comfort/daring perspective, I'm a C-D cup and
going without will NOT be flattering!

I'm still doing research, but I will keep the Mantua Maker pattern in mind.

Thanks everyone!

Allison

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Regency corsets





I've read everyone's replies and am coming to the =
conclusion that I will need the corset. While the idea of being a =
mervielleuse with no support at all is appealing from the comfort/daring =
perspective, I'm a C-D cup and going without will NOT be =
flattering!



I'm still doing research, but I will keep the Mantua =
Maker pattern in mind.




Thanks everyone!




Allison





------=_NextPart_000_02C2_01C297A5.E132DC40--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 12:51:35 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur and dagging
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:59:54 -0600 (CST)
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On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote:

> I've been looking at medieval garments in the light of my reading on
> the use of fur in that period, and it occurs to me that dagging may
> have arisen as a form of decoration as a result of using fur as
> lining.  For example the pelt of the Russian squirrel is a rectangle
> with triangles at both ends, and in order to get a straight line at a
> lower edge the furrier would have had to cut off the triangular end.
> Leave it on, and there would be a serrated edge looking very similar
> to what we see on many garments. Any thoughts, anyone?

Oh, I like it. No way to tell, of course, as there are a zillion different
dagging patterns. Unless we found a garment with intact fur or stitching
that showed the shapes of the lining pieces...

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 13:20:39 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] OT: Re: history on yer doorstep
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:25:25 -0800
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At 9:18 AM -0600 11/28/02, seamstrix@juno.com wrote:
>In
>September I visited the Cahokia Mounds in South Central Illinois (across
>the Mississippi from St. Louis). They are designated a World Heritage
>site. The largest of the Mounds stands well over 100 ft tall and covers 4
>acres. The site was built between @1000 CE and 1400 CE ...[snip]...
>
>...Americans need to stop discounting the
>history of America before the Europeans arrived, it had a full and rich
>set of cultures which we need to respect and value.

When going places in California, I tend to take back roads when I 
have time, and often when I pass local landmarks -- an odd shaped 
rock, an isolated hill, etc. -- I think what a shame it is that we 
have lost so much of the history of these places. Surely the native 
people who lived here had names for these landmarks, stories or 
legends about them, historical events associated with them, just like 
the surviving names and legends for hillforts, megaliths, and places 
in Europe. But we've lost all that, because European settlers 
displaced the natives from their land....

ObCostume: Which reminds me, in a roundabout way: any archaeological 
types out there know why we hardly ever seem to hear of any textile 
remnants from digs in the U.S. or Canada? All the archaeological 
textile stuff I seem to hear mentioned is Mayan or Peruvian.
-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 13:42:38 2002
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur and dagging
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:46:10 -0000
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Robin wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote:
>
> > I've been looking at medieval garments in the light of my reading
on
> > the use of fur in that period, and it occurs to me that dagging
may
> > have arisen as a form of decoration as a result of using fur as
> > lining.  For example the pelt of the Russian squirrel is a
rectangle
> > with triangles at both ends, and in order to get a straight line
at a
> > lower edge the furrier would have had to cut off the triangular
end.
> > Leave it on, and there would be a serrated edge looking very
similar
> > to what we see on many garments. Any thoughts, anyone?
>
> Oh, I like it. No way to tell, of course, as there are a zillion
different
> dagging patterns. Unless we found a garment with intact fur or
stitching
> that showed the shapes of the lining pieces...
>

Well, we can but dream:-)
Until then, point me in the direction of a reliable pattern of, say, a
sleeve, and the right outer fabric for it, and I will try it with a
couple of different furs to see how it comes out, following the shape
of the pelts.

best wishes
Stevie


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 13:57:51 2002
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur and dagging
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:05:52 -0600 (CST)
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On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Stevie Gamble wrote:

> Until then, point me in the direction of a reliable pattern of, say, a
> sleeve, and the right outer fabric for it, and I will try it with a
> couple of different furs to see how it comes out, following the shape
> of the pelts.

Hmm. You'd want something pretty early, because the later you go, the more
varied the dagging patterns get, and this issue of "origin" of the trend
becomes irrelevant. Look at 1320-1350. Some images from this time actually
show geometric shapes in the linings meant to indicate pieced fur pelts.
I don't have an example offhand, and no time to dig one up right now, but
if I see one, I'll tell you.

Reliable pattern? That's all guesswork. Some approaches are more logical
than others, or work better than others, but much depends on what
look/style/garment you're reproducing.

--Robin


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 13:59:37 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] ADV Grannd Garb Live Event
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:59:51 -0500
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Hello,

Hopefully you'll excuse the advertisement considering it is for a company
that sells costume supplies to many of you.

For those who might be interested in some last minute shopping for a
costumer on your list, we will be in East Brunswick NJ

Saturday, November 30
9 am to 6 pm
and
Sunday, December 1
10 am to 4 pm

If you go to our site, you will find a map and a coupon you can print out
for 10% off your order before tax. (Discount is not good for clothing being
sold by Sykes Sutlery).

http://www.grannd.com/events.shtml

Event is located at the East Brunswick Independent Fire House hall.

Just off Cranbury Road between June and Joseph Sts.

This is not a "garbed" event ;)

Thanks,

Kyna Grannd
(mundanely Suzanne Buffalino)


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 14:20:42 2002
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Status: RO

    If you haven't already seen it, there's a small book, still in print,
entitled "Cut My Kote" with some information on this subject.  Specifically,
jackets or tops and baby clothes cut in exactly the same way as those made
from certain animal skins, using the skin shape.

Diane S.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
becomes irrelevant. Look at 1320-1350. Some images from this time actually
show geometric shapes in the linings meant to indicate pieced fur pelts.
I don't have an example offhand, and no time to dig one up right now, but
if I see one, I'll tell you.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 14:20:51 2002
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:33:44 -0500
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    They're digging.  There's quite an international project going that's
digging up arctic graves, and they're finding quite a bit of stuff,
including spindles, women in costume, and horses with fancy trappings.

Diane S.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
way: any archaeological
types out there know why we hardly ever seem to hear of any textile
remnants from digs in the U.S. or Canada? All the archaeological

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 14:25:40 2002
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic posture? was body type periods
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 <5.2.0.9.0.20021128173754.00b3fa30@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net>
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:24:10 +0000
Status: RO

kris  wrote
>
>> > What are you supposed to say in the US? "Excuse me"? I usually say "Sorry".
>> > I'm in Canada, but I'm French-speaking (in a bilingual city), so I might
>> > have been using the wrong expression for years...
>>
>>"Excuse me" is the standard.
>
>Interesting. I'm in Vancouver, Canada, and I always say "Sorry" if I 
>accidentally bump into someone, but then, if I'm in a rush, I push 
>through saying "Excuse me please, sorry, excuse me.." Trying to get 
>through crowds while running for your bus that's *right there* is 
>always an interesting experience.
>
>kris

I have to confess that I sometimes use "excuse me" to mean "I'm giving 
you fair warning, but if you don't move I'm going to barge through".

Jean

-- 
Jean Waddie
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 14:29:39 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie costume pattern
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:43:33 -0500
Status: RO

Barbie is an 11 1/2 inch doll.

    Did you know that before Barbie came along, a quite similar 10 1/2 inch
doll was the standard?
    They were commonly sold in stores, and were the most common dolls,
besides baby dolls, when Barbie was introduced, and continued for a long
time after.
    Therefore-------if you have an old pattern, better check what size doll
it's for.  There were all kinds of patterns avaiable for these dolls.  My
sisters and I had them, and one of my aunts was working on a project of
crocheting an outfit for them to represent every country.  Some people
finished the whole collection.  And then there were patterns for every
state, as well as all the sports and other activities, both knitted and
crocheted.
    So if you get an older pattern, check for size and shape.  The older
dolls had a bigger waist, too.

Diane S.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 14:39:39 2002
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Message-ID: <01cd01c297df$9d3fcae0$1c1223d9@dan>
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur and dagging
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:43:38 -0000
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Diane wrote:


>     If you haven't already seen it, there's a small book, still in
print,
> entitled "Cut My Kote" with some information on this subject.
Specifically,
> jackets or tops and baby clothes cut in exactly the same way as
those made
> from certain animal skins, using the skin shape.

Many thanks; I'm aware of the hypothesis suggested in that book,
though I don't think that the researchers included dagging. Do you
know of any subsequent research on this hypothesis?

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 15:08:53 2002
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From: spynnere@juno.com
Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Ethnic eating
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On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:00:01 -0700 h-costume-request@indra.com writes:
> 
> Message: 1
> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" 
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ethnic Eating
> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:46:36 -0500
> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
> I wonder how that influenced food in the Middle Ages, when forks 
> were not
> widely used...

   In the cooking of the period I am most interested in (late 14th c.
England), 'glop' of many colours was popular.  So were variations on pies
(in crusts called coffyns) as well as soups and roasts.  The various
'glops' are (usually) stewed meats (sometimes beans) shredded in a sauce
the consistency of porridge.   Sauces to serve with roasts were popular,
too.  I find eating it a satisfying (if messy!) experiment.  But a friend
is working with an Andalusian manuscript that is also 14th c., and that
manuscript has a much wider range of dishes.

   Elizabeth

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Subject: [h-cost] Formal manners
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    This has been a very interesting conversation, with all the different
points of view.
    I can tell you a few things about late 1800's manners from real
experience.  I'm not rich, by any means, but my great-grandparents were.
They were regular houseguests of Mr. and Mrs. Flagler, who built the
railroad to Florida and down the keys, and developed Florida as a winter
resort.  They moved in that social circle, and had one son, who also had one
son, my father, who knew them, was born in their house, and  spent time with
them as a young boy.   They had a big house in town, and another in the
country, and lived quite formally, as did my great-aunt, whom I personally
knew.
     Peas-----off a knife----big joke, done to amuse the children, at home.
No honey, just a funny balancing act.
    Peas were not served at a formal meal.  Period.  Solved the problem.  In
fact, nothing that can not be eaten gracefully was served at a formal meal,
and it is still the rule.
    Yes, I do remember that one was not supposed to "stick" anything, just
sit up straight and bring it up to you.  I notice that all the old forks I
have have longer tines than modern ones, by the way.  And were used with the
tines up.
    Oh yes, we got lots of instruction at home on how to eat at so and so's
house.  Dip the soup spoon away from you, wipe it on the far side of the
dish------and keep your left hand in your lap unless you needed to cut
something.  Then you swapped hands, cut one small piece, swap back,  put
hand back in lap, and eat quietly with your mouth closed.
    Oh yes, every single piece.  But then again, at a formal meal, things
are not supposed to be rushed, and food that needs extensive cutting simply
is not served.  Never take a big mouthful, only small bites that can be
swallowed quickly in order to carry on a conversation.
  Combined with tooth problems, you have----voila!----the casserole!
Creamed corn! ( And creamed everything else too, I swear.  I HATE creamed
cabbage.)
    Gee, that reminds me---- we had creamed peas!  and green beans, etc.,
etc., etc.
    The menu was tailored to the manners.  Guess that about sums it up.
    My mother used to say that if we learned good manners from her we would
never have to be embarrassed if we were invited to dinner with the
president.
    As it happens, one of my uncles *was* first cousin to a president, but
the fanciest dinner I ever went to was an Industrial Arts Teacher's
convention with my husband.  They had a sit-down luncheon.  There they sat,
500 men and me, and they were all watching me to see when to start and how
to eat it.  Talk about being in the hot seat!!  Whew!
    But that was all a long time ago.

    Oh, one other tidbit, I believe the fork tines up is possibly German or
French table manners from 1700's.

Having fun remembering,
Diane S.-----sw NYS
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
  <<<>>>>

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I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, so here goes. We saw the second
Harry Potter movie the week after it opened and I just LOVED Kenneth
Branaugh's costumes all through it. He has a wonderful romantic dueling
outfit, but all the other costumes remind me of Oscar Wilde. They are not
like I envisioned them at all when I read the book (satin academic robes in
pastel colors) but whole suits done in a combination of fabrics, a lot of
them wool suiting in pink and other flowery shades. All he needed was to
carry a lily "in his medieval hand." Does anyone know where I could see
still photos of these?

No other interesting costumes to speak of. And if you're looking for a
recommendation -- I must be the only person in the world who thought it was
a bad movie -- all the reviews I read were positive. I found it very dull
and uninteresting, and in several places unintentionally funny. But the
actor who played Tom Riddle was good, as was Mr. Branaugh.

Gail Finke


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Subject: [h-cost] Getting through crowds/politeness
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I went to NYC last weekend, and was not run over or into by anyone.

My difficult getting-through-crowds is usually moving audio/visual equipment around at a Worldcon
(Science Fiction).

"Excuse me; pardon me; 'scuse me." repeat as necessary.

But when the crowd just is Not moving out of my way (I have time constraints), using the "backup beep"
is the single most effective way of getting through.

Sure beats "Coming through!"

Ann in CT
Got all my wools washed, now to get them dried. . . .


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At 03:32 PM 11/29/2002 -0500, Gail & Scott Finke wrote:
>
>
>No other interesting costumes to speak of. 

Actually, I adored Mrs. Weasely's first costume--the English countrywoman's
apron and Wellington boots, worn over a wild chrocheted sweater with
flowing bell shaped sleeves, made of bits and scraps of yarn in screaming
rainbow hues.  It's even inspired me to take up chrocheting again, although
I haven't yet gotten past the Big Rectangles stage.

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Nov 29 19:18:49 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur and dagging
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:37:29 -0800
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At 5:45 PM +0000 11/29/02, Stevie Gamble wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I've been looking at medieval garments in the light of my reading on
>the use of fur in that period, and it occurs to me that dagging may
>have arisen as a form of decoration as a result of using fur as
>lining.  For example the pelt of the Russian squirrel is a rectangle
>with triangles at both ends, and in order to get a straight line at a
>lower edge the furrier would have had to cut off the triangular end.
>Leave it on, and there would be a serrated edge looking very similar
>to what we see on many garments.
>Any thoughts, anyone?

I'd want to look at a survey of the earliest examples of dagging 
before coming to any certain conclusions, but my impression has been 
that _lined_ dags (whether appearing to be fabric-lined or fur-lined) 
are relatively rare, and that the default is done in plain unlined 
cloth.  (See, for example, the dagged strips in the MoL Clothing 
book.)  My initial hypothesis (to be tested by further research) 
would be that dagging arose in the context of the fashion for heavily 
fulled woolen fabrics, where you can cut a decorative (and even very 
elaborate) edge without the need to finish the raw edges.  Then, once 
the concept of dagging had caught on, you might get examples done in 
other fabrics and even in lined fabrics.  (I know of several examples 
of very simple dagging -- a scalloped or embattled edge -- on a 
fur-lined garment such as a hood-and-shoulder-cape from the late 
14th/early 15th century.)

My logical arguments against the "irregular fur edge" hypothesis 
would be that furriers obviously had _no_ compunction against cutting 
and piecing furs to create "yardage"; and from a practical 
standpoint, smoothing off the edge of the fur lining would be far 
less work than cutting the outer fabric to match and finishing the 
much more elaborate edge.  I can see fur-lined dags arising in the 
context of an existing concept more easily than I can see them as the 
origin of the concept.

But, as I say, looking at depictions of the early development would 
be necessary for a better notion.

Heather

-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:23:30 -0800
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At 7:24 PM +0000 11/29/02, Jean Waddie wrote:
>kris  wrote
>>
>>>  > What are you supposed to say in the US? "Excuse me"? I usually 
>>>say "Sorry".
>>>>  I'm in Canada, but I'm French-speaking (in a bilingual city), so I might
>>>>  have been using the wrong expression for years...
>>>
>>>"Excuse me" is the standard.
>>
>>Interesting. I'm in Vancouver, Canada, and I always say "Sorry" if 
>>I accidentally bump into someone, but then, if I'm in a rush, I 
>>push through saying "Excuse me please, sorry, excuse me.." Trying 
>>to get through crowds while running for your bus that's *right 
>>there* is always an interesting experience.
>>
>>kris
>
>I have to confess that I sometimes use "excuse me" to mean "I'm 
>giving you fair warning, but if you don't move I'm going to barge 
>through".
>
>Jean

 That was the type of circumstance in which my father always 
used "Look out!"  I actually have a major revelation at some point in 
my childhood when I realized that "Look out!" was not _normally_ 
understood to be functionally equivalent to, "Pardon me, but you're 
in my way at the moment."  There are mental pathways in my brain 
attached to that phrase that I fear will never be undone.

Heather
-- 
*****
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hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Re: history on yer doorstep
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:10:07 -0800
Status: RO

Well,

I only took first year archaeology classes so cannot give you a
comprehensive answer, but when I was studying at Brigham Young University
(the Mormon institution) they were digging up some of the native graves and
displaying the contents.  This was most upsetting to the ancentors who
protested quite loudly and threatened to dig up Brigham Young and put his
remains on display if the current mummy's were not removed and returned to
their resting places.

Rgds,

Lisa

----- Original Message -----
From: "STRAIGHT " 
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Re: history on yer doorstep


>     They're digging.  There's quite an international project going that's
> digging up arctic graves, and they're finding quite a bit of stuff,
> including spindles, women in costume, and horses with fancy trappings.
>
> Diane S.
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> way: any archaeological
> types out there know why we hardly ever seem to hear of any textile
> remnants from digs in the U.S. or Canada? All the archaeological
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
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> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com, Gail & Scott Finke 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gilderoy Lockhart
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On Friday 29 November 2002 03:32 pm, Gail & Scott Finke wrote:
> I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, so here goes. We saw the second
> Harry Potter movie the week after it opened 

We've seen it, too.

>and I just LOVED Kenneth
> Branaugh's costumes all through it.

I loved all of Branagh's performance.  He looked the part, he sounded the 
part, he chewed scenery in the part... As far as I'm concerned, he was born 
to play Gilderoy Lockhart.  :-)

> He has a wonderful romantic dueling
> outfit, but all the other costumes remind me of Oscar Wilde. They are not
> like I envisioned them at all when I read the book (satin academic robes in
> pastel colors) but whole suits done in a combination of fabrics, a lot of
> them wool suiting in pink and other flowery shades. All he needed was to
> carry a lily "in his medieval hand." Does anyone know where I could see
> still photos of these?

Try Google.  I know there's a bunch of fan sites, and an official movie site 
too....


> No other interesting costumes to speak of. And if you're looking for a
> recommendation -- I must be the only person in the world who thought it was
> a bad movie -- all the reviews I read were positive. I found it very dull
> and uninteresting, and in several places unintentionally funny. But the
> actor who played Tom Riddle was good, as was Mr. Branaugh.

I liked the movie, though I admit that in many ways it's not as rich as the 
first movie (largely because the second book itself is less rich than the 
first).


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Re: history on yer doorstep
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On Friday 29 November 2002 02:33 pm, STRAIGHT  wrote:
>     They're digging.  There's quite an international project going that's
> digging up arctic graves, and they're finding quite a bit of stuff,
> including spindles, women in costume, and horses with fancy trappings.

And from another section of the New World entirely, see the following:

"Textiles in Southwestern Prehistory," by Lynn Teague (University of New 
Mexico Press, 1998), ISBN 0-8263-1977-7.  Teague describes in great detail 
and gives statistics on textile remains discovered in the "Greater 
Southwest", by which she means portions of Colorado, New Mexico, and 
northwestern Mexico.  The specimens include a sock, some knotless netting, 
gauze fabrics and twill and plain weave fabrics.  (I'm pulling this from the 
table of contents and some fast flipping--I need to re-read this book!)

"Prehistoric Sandals from Northeastern Arizona:  The Earl H. Morris and Ann 
Axtell Morris Research," by Kelley Ann Hays-Gilpin, Ann Cordy Deegan and 
Elizabeth Ann Morris (University of Arizona Press, 1998), ISBN 0-8165-1801-7.  
As the title implies, catalogs and describes types of sandals discovered in 
NE Arizona.  The specimens are in two and three tones and have wonderful 
geometric patterns woven into the soles-- you'd need to see the pics (sadly, 
black and white, but clear) to believe.


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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> ObCostume: Which reminds me, in a roundabout way: any archaeological
> types out there know why we hardly ever seem to hear of any textile
> remnants from digs in the U.S. or Canada? All the archaeological
> textile stuff I seem to hear mentioned is Mayan or Peruvian.

Hi. Aside from the Meso and South American peoples who wove in wool and
cotton, there seems to be little evidence for cloth production in the European
sense prior to the introduction of it by Europeans. What remains is whatever
leather or cord materials that survives, and that usually freeze dried or
dessicated. Some items, such as sandals woven from yucca fiber, have been
recovered from cliff dwellings in the American Southwest. In Polynesia, there
have been some pre-European finds of tapa and other sorts of fiber "cloth",
but I don't believe these were fabricated in the same way as textiles that we
regularly think of. It is interesting that someone mentioned the Mound
Builders and the later Mississippean culture. The chronicles of the DeSoto
expedition indicate that the later Mississippean culture had similarities to,
and probably had trade ties to at least the northern Mexican peoples. DeSoto's
men noted that the people that they met from Florida to Mississippi wore
feathers that came from birds only found in Mesoamerica, and their shields,
darts and methods of fortification and food production were also similar. For
further reading, look at "Knights of Spain, Warriors of the Sun; Hernando
deSoto and the South's Ancient Chiefdoms" by Charles Hudson Univ. of Georgia
Press 1997 ISBN 0-8203-2062-5  As a side note, Hudson states on pg. 179 that
the Spaniards found "cloth shawls" while they were ransacking a temple site at
Cofitachequi (believed by archaeologists to be the Mulberry Site in S.
Carolina), and there is a photo in the book on pg 157 of a twined shawl from
Clifty Creek Rock Shelter in Morgan County, Tenn., made from woods nettle,
although it is not dated. It is in the Smithsonian, and so can be checked if
anyone has a mind to do so. The book also notes that the women made shawls and
skirts out of the white mulberry tree bark, and possibly the leaf fibers of
the button snake-root. These were pounded like the Polynesian fibers, and the
twining appears to look like sprang or something similar. I'm sure there is
more out there. There will be a new set of books from the Smithsonian out
fairly soon on the Native American tribes, covering all groups. A friend of
mine is the illustrator for the series, and he has had the opportunity to view
thousands of finds and artifacts. I'll ask him what is out there. Cheers, Mike
T.

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gilderoy Lockhart
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>Does anyone know where I could see
>still photos of these?

Go to www.IMdB.com, search for Harry Potter Chamber of Secrets, and follow 
the side bar links under either Photos or Miscellaneous.


Kayta

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>Actually, I adored Mrs. Weasely's first costume--the English countrywoman's
>apron and Wellington boots, worn over a wild chrocheted sweater with
>flowing bell shaped sleeves, made of bits and scraps of yarn in screaming
>rainbow hues.  It's even inspired me to take up chrocheting again, although
>I haven't yet gotten past the Big Rectangles stage.

Her second sweater, at the train station, also had interesting crochet 
sleeves.  It was rows of shells in a pattern I haven't seen since the 60s, 
in a nice red-brown.  Mrs. Weasley must have been a fibre-artsy Hippie like 
me.  The second sweater was all crochet, where the first one was crochet 
sleeves on a knitted body.  I want them both, and I have gotten past the 
Big Rectangles stage.

The actor who played Mr. Weasley was recently seen, as the stuttering 
tailor who did the R&J prologue, in Shakespeare In Love.


Kayta

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>>>It is in dutch.
>>>http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=803465490
>>>
>>YES!!! Cayta, get it while you can, I am sure you don't need to be able 
>>to read
>>the instructions.
>I won't be so sure :-)
>She/he only ships within the Netherlands.
>But if you ask, it is maby not a problem.
>And if it is,let it send to me and I can send it to you if you want.
>
>Greetings,
>         Deredere

Thank you for your offer.  Do you know the Euro -> dollar exchange rate?  I 
don't know how many dollars the bidding stands at right now, and don't want 
to pay 'too much' for it.  Please advise?

Kayta

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie costume pattern magazine
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> > It is in dutch.
> > http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=803465490
> >
>
>YES!!! Cayta, get it while you can, I am sure you don't need to be able to 
>read
>the instructions.

Thanx for the tip.  I will get to e-bay and start bidding, as soon as I can 
find out the Euros -> dollars exchange rate.  I don't want to pay more than 
maybe $15 for this thing.  But if I get outbid, can I still make 
arrangements with you?


Kayta

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From: "Talia" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Barbie costume pattern magazine
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Euros and US dollars are 1 Euro to 0.993300 US$ today, so almost equal
exchange.

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 10:24 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Barbie costume pattern magazine



>>>It is in dutch.
>>>http://cgi.e
bay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=803465490
>>>
>>YES!!! Cayta, get it while you can, I am sure you don't need to be able
>>to read
>>the instructions.
>I won't be so sure :-)
>She/he only ships within the Netherlands.
>But if you ask, it is maby not a problem.
>And if it is,let it send to me and I can send it to you if you want.
>
>Greetings,
>         Deredere

Thank you for your offer.  Do you know the Euro -> dollar exchange rate?  I
don't know how many dollars the bidding stands at right now, and don't want
to pay 'too much' for it.  Please advise?

Kayta

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leigh tartaglio wrote:

> > ObCostume: Which reminds me, in a roundabout way: any archaeological
> > types out there know why we hardly ever seem to hear of any textile
> > remnants from digs in the U.S. or Canada? All the archaeological
> > textile stuff I seem to hear mentioned is Mayan or Peruvian.
>
> Hi. Aside from the Meso and South American peoples who wove in wool and
> cotton, there seems to be little evidence for cloth production in the European
> sense prior to the introduction of it by Europeans.

See also the Caddoan textiles recovered from Craig Mound at the Spiro site and
eight southern Ozark bluff shelters [Arkansas, in central US].  Jenna Kuttruff
analyzed 119 textiles. "Twining of two sets of elements and oblique interlacing
(interlacing with one set of elements sometimes referred to as plaiting), were the
two most common fabric structures identified, but twining with one set of elements
and interlacing with two sets of elements (weaving) also were present.  Knotting
and wrapping were found in minor frequencies."  The fibers included fur/hair,
feather, seed hair, inner bark, hard fibers, with one example of cotton.  This is
not my field--I looked up this article while trying to find Dr. Kuttruff's
research on 19th century Louisiana burial clothing and Acadian home weaving.  The
citation for her Caddoan research is:

Kuttruff, Jenna Tedrick.  "Mississippian Period Status Differentiation Through
Textile Analysis:  A Caddoan Example"  _American Antiquity_ 58 no. 1 (January
1993):  125-145.

Vicki Betts
vbetts@gower.net

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> Actually, just for the records, I don't _DO_ copies of things from films,
> that's just not creative in my books.

As opposed to copying from history;)

Seriously I do a mix of both. Costumes from movies/history because I see
something pretty and I want it for myself and own designs based on
inspiration from well everything. It's just there's not much call for my own
work. There are more instances of being able to wear something recognisable.
Pity.

> I love the Victorian idea of those PreRaphelite style medievaleque
'fairy-tale'
> dresses. Sooooooooo pretty *G* hey, and they are historical costumes,
after
> all, they are 19th century fancy dres sones in a way.

And indeed the PRB (at least initially not necessarily the later folloewers)
went to great length to learn about actual costume from the middle ages.
Doesn't mean they got it right all the time of course.

Have you got the book Pre Raphaelite Women by Jan Marsh ( I think)?
Wonderful, and split into the archetypes of femininity as seen by artists of
the time: Doves and Mothers, Pale ladies of Deatha.... Bohemian Stunners....

michaela
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce
http://recital.tripod.com/costume


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Groggy Greetings!

I must've saw the movies with no expectations in regards to 
costuming...Afterall they *are* wizards!  When reading the books, I didn't 
really envision colors so much as various personalities, characteristics and 
individual flair.  

I remember reading about the wierd things that the wizards did after Voldemort 
fails in killing Harry, which wasn't put in the movie.  There is a section 
early on in the first book where Mr. Dursley sees quite a few 'strange' folks 
wearing strange robes of various kinds...I suppose I should re-read it to 
refresh my memory as to the colors used.  It's been so long, I probably have 
forgotten.

I *loved* both Dumbledore's and McGonagal's robes.  Dumbledore's robes (and 
hat) when he awards the House Cup is just astonishingly gorgeous.  I hope to 
make robes like those for my Lord and myself!

(sidebar) I did notice, too, that the director has sensibly used the costume 
wardrobe from the first movie in the second.  Nice touch for continuity!

Many of the robes remind me of the medieval robes (whose Italian term escapes 
me at 4:15 am) worn by many men in various stages of their lives: University 
robes, robes worn to indicate societal station in life, governmental and 
religious station and roles.

I vaguely recall much societal emphasis was placed on these robes in all 
Italian life social activites.  (sidebar) I did notice, too, that in both HP 
movies, that the more 'important' the wizard, the more elaborate the robe..

Ah, well...Maybe after a little more sleep, some coffee and breakfast I'll 
remember more...Or maybe someone a little more awake can fill in my maddenly 
vacuous memories!

Gia/Giacinta
> 
> I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, so here goes. We saw the second
> Harry Potter movie the week after it opened and I just LOVED Kenneth
> Branaugh's costumes all through it. He has a wonderful romantic dueling
> outfit, but all the other costumes remind me of Oscar Wilde. They are not
> like I envisioned them at all when I read the book (satin academic robes in
> pastel colors) but whole suits done in a combination of fabrics, a lot of
> them wool suiting in pink and other flowery shades. All he needed was to
> carry a lily "in his medieval hand." Does anyone know where I could see
> still photos of these?
> 
> No other interesting costumes to speak of. And if you're looking for a
> recommendation -- I must be the only person in the world who thought it was
> a bad movie -- all the reviews I read were positive. I found it very dull
> and uninteresting, and in several places unintentionally funny. But the
> actor who played Tom Riddle was good, as was Mr. Branaugh.
> 
> Gail Finke
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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Lalah T Tillinghast  wrote
>        Of course, it was wrong of me to classify all the people from the
>Northeast as being loud and pushy.  That is as bad as calling all
>Americans the same.  Bad habit from a childhood in the south where we
>were actually afraid of Yankees.  Sorry,
>
>        <<really
>don't realize that some people walking through tourist spots (in
>midtown) are on their way to work>>>
>
>        I used to work at Epcot and getting to work was sometimes a
>nightmare because of the "guests".  No one at a Disney attraction is a
>customer or tourist, they are all guests.  Walking across the park in
>costume would be like trying to run a gauntlet and they never considered
>that I might be trying to get to work on time when they asked me to take
>their pictures.  And, of course, as any Disney employee knows all the
>cast members had to be polite and cooperative.  But as a southerner, it
>was hard for me to deal with people who didn't do the polite thing first,
>but who just shouted orders at me.   I used to see a lot of the bumper
>stickers that said "Not all of us are on vacation".  That wasn't allowed
>in the Disney parking lots or I would have had one too.  Guess it is the
>same everywhere from Orlando to New York to London or Rome.
>
>Lalah
>Never give up, Never surrender

This is so true of Edinburgh, particularly in Festival time.  Choice 
t-shirts/ badges:  "Get out of my way, I LIVE here" and "If all the 
world's a stage, why are all the clowns in Edinburgh?".  Someone once 
tried to persuade me to take a tourists bus tour - when I was wearing a 
business suit and carrying a briefcase?!

Jean

-- 
Jean Waddie
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Status: RO

i actually liked the second movie better:)

branaugh was satisfyingly over-the-top. perfect for lockhart. jason isaacs
was sooooo very bad as malfoy. sigh, he plays such a delicious villain. i
love that all the actors seem perfect for their parts.

laurie




> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:32:53 -0500
> From: Gail & Scott Finke 
> To: 
> Subject: [h-cost] Gilderoy Lockhart
> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
> 
> I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, so here goes. We saw the second
> Harry Potter movie the week after it opened and I just LOVED Kenneth
> Branaugh's costumes all through it. He has a wonderful romantic dueling
> outfit, but all the other costumes remind me of Oscar Wilde. They are not
> like I envisioned them at all when I read the book (satin academic robes in
> pastel colors) but whole suits done in a combination of fabrics, a lot of
> them wool suiting in pink and other flowery shades. All he needed was to
> carry a lily "in his medieval hand." Does anyone know where I could see
> still photos of these?
> 
> No other interesting costumes to speak of. And if you're looking for a
> recommendation -- I must be the only person in the world who thought it was
> a bad movie -- all the reviews I read were positive. I found it very dull
> and uninteresting, and in several places unintentionally funny. But the
> actor who played Tom Riddle was good, as was Mr. Branaugh.
> 
> Gail Finke
> 

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: NZ and LotR PreRaphaelites
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 --- michaela  wrote: > 
> > Actually, just for the records, I don't _DO_ copies of things from films,
> > that's just not creative in my books.
> 
> As opposed to copying from history;)

Nope, there's a big difference. Even my blue dress is not a 'copy', it is
clearly inspired by, but not a copy. While I am fascinated by the LOTR Costume
list and the alleyscratch web site, I personally can't really see the point in
getting exactly the same farbic, the same pattern, the same stitching, the same
everything. That's just a personal squick though, and it still fascinates me in
a way.

> Seriously I do a mix of both. Costumes from movies/history because I see
> something pretty and I want it for myself and own designs based on
> inspiration from well everything.

*nodnodnod* Same here. As I always say: good plagiarism is an art. *laughs*

> Have you got the book Pre Raphaelite Women by Jan Marsh ( I think)?
> Wonderful, and split into the archetypes of femininity as seen by artists of
> the time: Doves and Mothers, Pale ladies of Deatha.... Bohemian Stunners....

No, don't have it, butthanks ever so much, I'll keep an eye out for it.

Nicole - about to fix the new ceiling lamp: a 'copy' of those Flemish 17th
century brass ones. *G* 

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 30 11:00:56 2002
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Off the top of my head, I'd say, either climate/soil conditions, or
maybe the pertinent cultures/aboriginal peoples didn't have woven
textiles? (yes, I've no doubt that some did, but not all).
--sue

Chris Laning wrote:
> 
> ObCostume: Which reminds me, in a roundabout way: any archaeological
> types out there know why we hardly ever seem to hear of any textile
> remnants from digs in the U.S. or Canada? All the archaeological
> textile stuff I seem to hear mentioned is Mayan or Peruvian.
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 30 11:31:39 2002
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What would a 12 year old boy wear in New York in 1822?  Middle class,
son of a professor?  14 year old?  At what age did they go to long
pants? I know adult males were wearing long pants at this time.  And
coats? capes?  For men, boys?  I'm guessing shawls and capes for women
-- what kind of coat would a women wear? Young girl?Thanks for any
suggestions.
Kate

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 30 13:04:57 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] This year's calendars
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I've been in a real bind this year finding a calendar. I always try to
find calendars that can double as art books, with good reproductions I can
add to my slide collection or use for research purposes. Usually I buy the
Medieval Woman calendar, and sometimes other medieval art calendars.  
This year, though, there's no Medieval Woman calendar, and the medieval
selection is in short supply. Even the Pre-Raphaelite calendar selection
is pretty slim (I saw one Waterhouse calendar). The only artist calendar
even close to medieval I've seen in the stores is Vermeer, which is lovely
but doesn't fit my needs. (If I wanted fantasy images of witches, I'd be
in good shape -- they seem to outnumber the Angels calendars this year.)

Today I was hunting online and found this:

A Medieval Year: The Book of Rural Occupations 2003 Wall Calendar

	The twelve images in this calendar are reproduced from a 15th
century manuscript in the Morgan Library in New York City. Miniatures from
a Flemish copy of Petrus de Crescentiuss Book of Rural Occupations
(originally in Latin, c. 1470; composed originally in Latin, c. 1309),
they offer a fascinating glimpse into medieval life. The images depict
topics covered in the book's twelve chapters, relating to farming
(domestic animals, herb gardens, fruit trees, and harvesting),
viniculture, hunting, and fishing. The blue-clad figure of Crescentius
appears in each illustration.

It's at Amazon too, but without a photo.

I think this will be my choice this year. There's another one in the same
line called Armor 2003 that might interest someone:


Has anyone else found any good medieval art calendars? I'd be interested
in knowing where.

Plus, just as urgent: Any calendars of byzantine icons? I could swear I
saw one a few weeks ago at Borders, but it doesn't turn up on a
Borders/Amazon search, and now I need one for a gift.

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 30 13:58:41 2002
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Thanks a bunch for costing me money :o).  Seriously, I was afraid I would
suffer withdrawal without my Medieval Women's Calendar.  At least this
one is in the right time frame.  Thanks for the heads up.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Postscript to my earlier post:

http://www.browntrout.com/calendars/product.asp?MGID=303&IID=3068
	"Saints" calendar. Also at Amazon. One photos indicates that at
least some of the images are medieval, but I don't see an overview, so I
can't guess at the rest.

http://www.browntrout.com/calendars/product.asp?MGID=303&IID=3043
	"Erotica in Renaissance Art" calendar. Fun, in period for some of
us, but nearly all of it nudes, so of limited use for costume!

--Robin


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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:05:45 -0500
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On Saturday 30 November 2002 11:00 am, Sue Clemenger wrote:
> Off the top of my head, I'd say, either climate/soil conditions, or
> maybe the pertinent cultures/aboriginal peoples didn't have woven
> textiles? (yes, I've no doubt that some did, but not all).

Textile remains have certainly been found in the southwestern US (see the 
books I cited in my earlier post).

I'm no expert, but a number of American subclimates are less hostile to 
textile preservation than, say, that of the Mediterranean (see Elizabeth 
Weyland Barber's remarks in Prehistoric Textiles about the dearth of textile 
remains from prehistoric Greece as compared to other ancient cultures).


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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On Saturday 30 November 2002 07:21 am, Gia_Gavino@attbi.com wrote:
> Groggy Greetings!
>
> I must've saw the movies with no expectations in regards to
> costuming...Afterall they *are* wizards!  When reading the books, I didn't
> really envision colors so much as various personalities, characteristics
> and individual flair.

Have you read the fourth book yet (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)?  From 
that one, it become clear that wizards and witches love color, often at the 
expense of anything resembling coordination or taste....  :-)


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd."
 --Flannery O'Connor

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Subject: [h-cost] Saints and square Halos...
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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:32:06 -0000
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Hi all,

Just a postscript to Robin's 'Saints' calender; I am reading Sally
Fisher's

'The Square Halo & Other Mysteries of Western Art',
ISBN 0 8109 4463 4

which has some excellent reproductions of paintings ranging over many
centuries, together with explanations of the significance of
apparently bizarre components.  For example I now know why someone
would be portrayed with a square halo...

best wishes
Stevie

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Saints and square Halos...
From: Cassandra Greer 
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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:58:23 +0100
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> which has some excellent reproductions of paintings ranging over many
> centuries, together with explanations of the significance of
> apparently bizarre components.  For example I now know why someone
> would be portrayed with a square halo...
Uh, well, why?

Cass :)

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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:14:34 -0700
Status: RO

Yeah, like I said, I knew that some of them had (see my original post
that you actually quoted).  In the case of the peoples who have lived in
my part of the US, however, I don't know of any textiles (that pre-date
the presence of whites and trade with same, etc.).  And Montana is, in
general, a much more hostile climate to all kinds of things than is the
Meditteranean.  What very little I know of our (more nomadic) aboriginal
nations up here lead me to believe that they used primarily leathers and
such for clothing and shelters.  I freely admit that I don't have a clue
as to what coast-dwellers in, say, modern-day Washington state wore, or
the indigenous folk from the East Coast.
I do find the discussions about Mound Dwellers and such completely
fascinating, though. Not being a midwesterner, I'd only barely heard of
them.  It just never ceases to amaze me, what folks on this list know!
--sue

Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
> 
> On Saturday 30 November 2002 11:00 am, Sue Clemenger wrote:
> > Off the top of my head, I'd say, either climate/soil conditions, or
> > maybe the pertinent cultures/aboriginal peoples didn't have woven
> > textiles? (yes, I've no doubt that some did, but not all).
> 
> Textile remains have certainly been found in the southwestern US (see the
> books I cited in my earlier post).
> 
> I'm no expert, but a number of American subclimates are less hostile to
> textile preservation than, say, that of the Mediterranean (see Elizabeth
> Weyland Barber's remarks in Prehistoric Textiles about the dearth of textile
> remains from prehistoric Greece as compared to other ancient cultures).
>
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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:16:51 -0700
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And that would be why?!!!
Don't tease us too long!
--sue

Stevie Gamble wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Just a postscript to Robin's 'Saints' calender; I am reading Sally
> Fisher's
> 
> 'The Square Halo & Other Mysteries of Western Art',
> ISBN 0 8109 4463 4
> 
> which has some excellent reproductions of paintings ranging over many
> centuries, together with explanations of the significance of
> apparently bizarre components.  For example I now know why someone
> would be portrayed with a square halo...
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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To: 
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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:55:08 -0000
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Cass wrote:

> > which has some excellent reproductions of paintings ranging over
many
> > centuries, together with explanations of the significance of
> > apparently bizarre components.  For example I now know why someone
> > would be portrayed with a square halo...

> Uh, well, why?

Actually, it's rather dull:-)
It means that the person portrayed was still alive, and therefore
could not be canonised by official processes. It was reserved for
people the painter thought were sure-fire saints, once they'd got the
dying bit over, though I suspect that there may have been some
elements of flattery at work.
There are more on-topic h-cost references in the book, not only to the
painting of fabrics in stylized and conventional ways, but also to the
carving in stone and wood of garments which could never have looked
like that in reality. It's an interesting, and useful, reminder of
just how careful we have to be in using paintings, woodcuts and the
like as if they were accurate reproductions of real objects. It's a
lot of fun, as well:-)

best wishes
Stevie

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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:17:28 -0500
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At 01:21 PM 11/27/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>People from the north are loud
>and bossy, while the southerners are more quiet and pretty much do their
>controlling without so much noise.
>
>         So that ought to get me in the dog house with all my yankee (that
>is northern, to you of other countries) friends, but that is they way it
>looks to this old southern lady.

(chuckle)
Yep, that sounds like what my Mom would say (from Alabama).  My hubby (from 
Boston) thinks she's manipulative and sneaky.  She thinks he's pushy and 
obnoxious. Neither one of them is 'right' or 'wrong'; they just have 
different ways of communicating.

There's a very interesting book I read recently, "Cracker Culture: Celtic 
Ways in the Old South" (I think that's the title, anyway).  Talks about the 
Southern habit of indirectness, among other things.  Interesting 
book.  Apparently the cultural difference goes back a LONG way.

Cheers,
Mara

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Subject: [h-cost] Calendars
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Status: RO

Speaking of calendars, for anyone who shares my taste for the fashions of 
later centuries, I've got my eye on Sally Queen's Underwear: Beneath 
Historic Fashions 2003 Calendar. Just the picture on the front has me 
drooling... can be seen at www.sallyqueenassociates.com

Kate

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From: Kevin + Mara 
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Subject: [h-cost] Family history, was RE: behavior and cultures
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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:39:54 -0500
Status: RO

At 02:44 PM 11/27/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>My grandmother was able to trace our ancestry back to a younger son
>of John Russell (the one who were related to the heir are now the
>Dukes of Bedfords). He was evidently on the wrong side of things
>during Jane Grey's short reign (and an unrepentant Protestant to
>boot). While Daddy was able to stay and do ok even under Queen Mary,
>my distant ancestor had to high tail it to Scotland. The family
>remained there until the Highland Clearances forced them to
>immigrate.)

Sounds familiar :)  I'm very lucky to have had a great aunt who did a good 
deal of genealogical research on my Dad's side, and my Mom's side has 
traced their ancestry back a good ways, too.  Mom made an acquaintance at 
her church, an elderly woman who was born in England and came to the States 
as a war bride, I think.  Anyway, this woman was giving herself airs about 
being vaguely related to someone royal, and started treating Mom and Dad as 
though she was better than they because of her lineage.  (Never mind that 
we live in a democracy, thanks, and that stuff isn't supposed to count; as 
I remind Mom, that and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee.)  So 
finally Mom got fed up and trotted out her own family tree, after which 
this woman treated her with much more respect.  The whole episode sounds 
very stupid, if you ask me!

But family history is very interesting, and probably gives those of us who 
are very mobile (I'm a Navy brat) a sense of rootedness we wouldn't 
otherwise have.  I'm just now helping my Dad out on a project of scanning 
in a diary and memoir that his great-grandfather, John O. Falkinburg, 
left.  This particular ancestor was an orphan who enlisted in the U.S. Navy 
for the latter part of the American Civil War, and reenlisted again after 
the war ended because he didn't quite feel like going back to farm 
life.  The ship he was assigned to wound up going all the way to Japan and 
back -- very fascinating stuff!  His wife was an interesting person, too; 
her father was an ardent abolitionist, and she writes a few notes about him 
in the notebook we're transcribing.  Obligatory costume content:  I've got 
some photos of various classes from the schools at which J.O.F. taught, and 
the turn of the century outfits on the girls are quite interesting.  Clara, 
his daughter, is marked with an x under her photo in the school pictures.

Here are some of the pictures:
http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Temp/JOF
Interesting to trace the clothing Emma (my great-great-grandmother) and 
Clara (her daughter, my great-grandmother) are wearing in different periods...

Cheers,
Mara

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 30 19:23:56 2002
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] This year's calendars
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Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:23:45 +1100 (EST)
Status: RO

They're not very appreciative/understanding of
overseas customers - they want a $25 "freight" charge,
on top of the actual shipping costs. That means if I
wanted one I'd have to pay around $28 for the actual
calendar, around $50 for the "freight" charge, plus
shipping - that's just too much.

And yes, I've written to both compliment them on their
calendars and to ask why they charge this "freight"
charge, when it is obviously not part of shipping
costs.


Bella

http://www.yahoo.promo.com.au/hint/ - Yahoo! Hint Dropper
- Avoid getting hideous gifts this Christmas with Yahoo! Hint Dropper!
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 30 20:22:42 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: behavior and cultures
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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:22:29 -0500
Status: RO

And it is interesting - I have never seen anything like either the 
bumper sticker or the t shirt here! Tempting, sometimes...  but really, 
we welcome them. All I see are rude T-shirts about the way we allegedly 
speak, for sale in tourist areas...  I've never seen anyone local 
wearing one! *G*

Seriously, last year was so odd... a lot of people stayed away, so  it's 
nice to see so many visitors have come this year. We're getting back to 
normal. As I said, we throw a great party!

And I don't think I've ever been asked to take someone's picture, though 
I suspect I'm in the background of many family albums... and I've 
certainly never had a tour bus operator try to get me on the tour! I 
must look like a New Yorker!
Ob. Costume Content... dressed in black, as I am in these situations... 
*G* "Everyone knows"  we wear a lot of black, and that sterotype is 
true! Darks, some brights, and very few pastels. I don't think I know 
anyone here who owns a pink pantsuit, as mentioned in other posts... we 
just don't wear a lot of pink, except as an accent color.

And I suspect our non-American list members are seeing how very 
different we are! Many cultures in this country...  and tourists seem to 
be the same everywhere... LOL!

Anne

Jean Waddie wrote:

> Lalah T Tillinghast  wrote
>
>>   
>>        <<> really
>> don't realize that some people walking through tourist spots (in
>> midtown) are on their way to work>>>
>>
>>        I used to work at Epcot and getting to work was sometimes a
>> nightmare because of the "guests".  No one at a Disney attraction is a
>> customer or tourist, they are all guests.  Walking across the park in
>> costume would be like trying to run a gauntlet and they never considered
>> that I might be trying to get to work on time when they asked me to take
>> their pictures.  And, of course, as any Disney employee knows all the
>> cast members had to be polite and cooperative.  But as a southerner, it
>> was hard for me to deal with people who didn't do the polite thing 
>> first,
>> but who just shouted orders at me.   I used to see a lot of the bumper
>> stickers that said "Not all of us are on vacation".  That wasn't allowed
>> in the Disney parking lots or I would have had one too.  Guess it is the
>> same everywhere from Orlando to New York to London or Rome.
>>
>> Lalah
>> Never give up, Never surrender
>
>
> This is so true of Edinburgh, particularly in Festival time.  Choice 
> t-shirts/ badges:  "Get out of my way, I LIVE here" and "If all the 
> world's a stage, why are all the clowns in Edinburgh?".  Someone once 
> tried to persuade me to take a tourists bus tour - when I was wearing 
> a business suit and carrying a briefcase?!
>
> Jean
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 30 20:40:41 2002
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Subject: [h-cost] OT but for our Lochac friends!
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http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/TSE2002/TSE2002.html

a solar eclipse December 4th
Break out those sun-eater traditions!
have fun, Betsy
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Nov 30 21:45:49 2002
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Family history, was RE: behavior and cultures
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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:44:40 -0500
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I love the sleeves on some of the young women in the 1896 photo. And Clara
was quite pretty, wasn't she? Thanks for sharing!

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin + Mara" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 6:39 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Family history, was RE: behavior and cultures


> At 02:44 PM 11/27/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> >My grandmother was able to trace our ancestry back to a younger son
> >of John Russell (the one who were related to the heir are now the
> >Dukes of Bedfords). He was evidently on the wrong side of things
> >during Jane Grey's short reign (and an unrepentant Protestant to
> >boot). While Daddy was able to stay and do ok even under Queen Mary,
> >my distant ancestor had to high tail it to Scotland. The family
> >remained there until the Highland Clearances forced them to
> >immigrate.)
>
> Sounds familiar :)  I'm very lucky to have had a great aunt who did a good
> deal of genealogical research on my Dad's side, and my Mom's side has
> traced their ancestry back a good ways, too.  Mom made an acquaintance at
> her church, an elderly woman who was born in England and came to the
States
> as a war bride, I think.  Anyway, this woman was giving herself airs about
> being vaguely related to someone royal, and started treating Mom and Dad
as
> though she was better than they because of her lineage.  (Never mind that
> we live in a democracy, thanks, and that stuff isn't supposed to count; as
> I remind Mom, that and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee.)  So
> finally Mom got fed up and trotted out her own family tree, after which
> this woman treated her with much more respect.  The whole episode sounds
> very stupid, if you ask me!
>
> But family history is very interesting, and probably gives those of us who
> are very mobile (I'm a Navy brat) a sense of rootedness we wouldn't
> otherwise have.  I'm just now helping my Dad out on a project of scanning
> in a diary and memoir that his great-grandfather, John O. Falkinburg,
> left.  This particular ancestor was an orphan who enlisted in the U.S.
Navy
> for the latter part of the American Civil War, and reenlisted again after
> the war ended because he didn't quite feel like going back to farm
> life.  The ship he was assigned to wound up going all the way to Japan and
> back -- very fascinating stuff!  His wife was an interesting person, too;
> her father was an ardent abolitionist, and she writes a few notes about
him
> in the notebook we're transcribing.  Obligatory costume content:  I've got
> some photos of various classes from the schools at which J.O.F. taught,
and
> the turn of the century outfits on the girls are quite interesting.
Clara,
> his daughter, is marked with an x under her photo in the school pictures.
>
> Here are some of the pictures:
> http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Temp/JOF
> Interesting to trace the clothing Emma (my great-great-grandmother) and
> Clara (her daughter, my great-grandmother) are wearing in different
periods...
>
> Cheers,
> Mara
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

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