From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 00:03:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20038 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:03:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01552i1006797; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h015500o007044; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0154D0o006925 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:04:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A6CC1279004C; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:04:12 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A6CD1FD0142; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:04:13 -0600 Message-ID: <00c501c2b153$22307c40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Happy New Year!!!!!!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:03:32 -0500 Status: RO Welcome to 2003 from Chesterfield, Virginia!!!!!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 00:07:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20050 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:07:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01593i1006868; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h015920o007831; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h015870o007634 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:08:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.132]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8000094RD4UE@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:03:06 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] What costumey did you sew/make over the holidays? In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20021231172721.00de09b0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021231205114.00d56ea0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3E123BA8.B7FD7E29@in-tch.com> <20021231164658.22307.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:52:55 -0800 Status: RO > >> Nicole - who FINALLY realised what she really, really wants to do, at >the age > >> of almost 34. > >> > >Nicole, you're a mere child! I was 43 when my life's work became apparent. And here I am, at the tender age of 53, and I finally think I have found what I really want to do - designing and making cloth dolls. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 00:18:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20065 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:18:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h015K2i1007116; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h015K00o010126; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h015JQ0o009987 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:19:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26278 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2003 05:19:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.38) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2003 05:19:25 -0000 Message-ID: <3E1279BE.8E8B3234@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Happy New Year!!!!!!! References: <00c501c2b153$22307c40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:16:46 -0500 Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Welcome to 2003 from Chesterfield, Virginia!!!!!!!! > Happy New Year to all. May this be the best year yet. Di _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 00:25:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20083 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:25:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h015R1i1007269; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h015R00o011442; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.mail.adelphia.net [64.8.50.205] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h015Qi0o011375 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:26:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.65.178.255] by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.25 201-253-122-126-125-20021216) with ESMTP id <20030101052205.BTPA28118.mta11.adelphia.net@[68.65.178.255]> for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:22:05 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] What costumey did you sew/make over the holidays? From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20021231131501.12281.47286.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:26:38 -0500 Status: RO sounds like you got a lot done, nicole. i feel like a complete schlepp now:) i got a pair of tabbed stays nearly completed-i need to trim down the top and armscye and finish the bias binding, i've started the bodice for a 1580's venetian gown of dark blue velveteen lined w/steel blue silk taffeta (i know, but *i'll* know it's there) and then i did a turn about the sewing room muttering "i have way too much fabric and way too little time". happy new year to you all! laurie > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:58:02 +0000 (GMT) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= > To: H-Costume > Subject: [h-cost] What costumey did you sew/make over the holidays? > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > So... I wonder if I'm the only one (and heartily disbelieve this) who used/is > using all those days off work for sewing and other costume bits. I am very > curious what others are working on, go on, please satisfy my curiosity! > *grins* > Nicole - eager to hear from others! > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 01:15:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20159 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 01:15:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h016H5i1008356; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h016H10o021007; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h016Gh0o020944 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.132]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8000KC2URTTP@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:16:42 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Happy New Year!!!!!!! In-reply-to: <00c501c2b153$22307c40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20021231221436.050d2f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:16:38 -0800 Status: RO Happy new year to you too, but it's still 2002 here in California, and will be for a couple of hours yet. >Welcome to 2003 from Chesterfield, Virginia!!!!!!!! > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 04:05:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA05778 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 04:05:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01974i1011845; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 02:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h019710o021512; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 02:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0196T0o021409 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 02:06:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.132]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8100HRW2MSRR@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 01:06:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Happy New Year!!!!!!! In-reply-to: <00c501c2b153$22307c40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030101010528.04873f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 01:06:24 -0800 Status: RO >Welcome to 2003 from Chesterfield, Virginia!!!!!!!! OK, OK, now it's happy new year in San Francisco. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 05:30:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13369 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:30:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01AW2i1013770; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01AW00o007349; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01AVF0o007212 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A3721F200272; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:31:14 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A37414D5012C; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:31:16 -0600 Message-ID: <000801c2b180$cf0a8aa0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] A Christmas Wish Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:30:29 -0500 Status: RO I am so thrilled!!! All I wanted for Christmas was to be able to work without pain again. I think I have ***IT*** back. Last summer I had two degenerative diseases hit me hard. My doctor started me on some new meds two weeks ago... I tested myself Saturday to work on a project that I started last summer. (I cleaned the images then.) I wanted to do the project all by myself to see if I could do it. I finished the project just a few minutes ago!!! In three days!!!! 70 webpages!! I am so excited I could cry. My heart was broken when I couldn't work. Only a few people knew how sick I really was. Teddy urged me to tell you all but I really could not go to the computer long enough to do a lot of answer mail. I just did student enrollments. Susan had been keeping up with everything in the business and telling me about what has been going on h-costume. She is a GREAT lurker on the list. She may not talk on the list but she keeps up with everyone. So here it is... I hope you all really enjoy this site. It is a 1922 Catalog of Rubber: Clothing, Uniforms, and Accessories from Raynster and the U.S Rubber Company. http://www.costumegallery.com/1922/Rubber/ If I still haven't convinced some of you that menswear is not boring, take a look at the Occupations section, especially the Misc. sub-section (there are 2 index pages of them). If you glance at this work quickly, you will think they all look a like... look at the details (pockets, sleeves, etc.) They were made differently because of their usage. The catalog gave wonderful descriptions of each item. The Accessories section is also fun. Angela, before you ask, on every webpage it states that these items were sold in 35 U.S. and Canadian cities. What is fun in the descriptions, some will state what areas of the country the items were popular. (see Angela smiling :)) I'm BACCCCCCCCCCCCK!!!!!!! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 06:36:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19311 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 06:36:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Bc3i1014917; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 04:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Bc10o018503; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 04:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (mta7-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01BbD0o018318 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 04:37:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.31.94]) by mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030101113712.MPHQ19755.mta7-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:37:12 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Christmas Wish Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000801c2b180$cf0a8aa0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-Id: <22E7C420-1D85-11D7-A2A3-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:32:48 +0000 Status: RO Penny you're an inspiration!!! I'll try to remember you and this email while I'm offline over the next several weeks or months and during this coming year. Hope that your health improves every day and that the New Year brings you loads of joy. Marcus. On Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 10:30 am, Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am so thrilled!!! All I wanted for Christmas was to be able to work > without pain again. I think I have ***IT*** back. Last summer I had > two > degenerative diseases hit me hard. My doctor started me on some new > meds > two weeks ago... I tested myself Saturday to work on a project that I > started last summer. (I cleaned the images then.) I wanted to do the > project > all by myself to see if I could do it. I finished the project just a > few > minutes ago!!! In three days!!!! 70 webpages!! I am so excited I > could > cry. My heart was broken when I couldn't work. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 06:51:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27781 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 06:51:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Br1i1015159; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 04:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Br00o021036; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 04:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.fi (IDENT:postfix@morgoth.tuug.fi [130.232.72.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Bqk0o021004 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 04:52:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix, from userid 15211) id 9830EFAC0; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:51:49 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79BD2FAB1 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:51:49 +0200 (EET) From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:51:49 +0200 (EET) Status: RO I'm about to start making a dress that makes me very nervous, because it's from an era I'm not very familiar with and because it's going to be my wedding dress. It's going to be a copy of the dress on pages 377 to 380 of Costume in Detail 1730-1930, but I'm considering using light purple colour instead of light blue. Could somebody give me hints about dressmaking or pattern making of that era? E.g. does a "close enough" pattern already exist? -- Lynoure Rajamaki lynoure@tuug.fi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 07:06:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07219 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 07:06:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01C83i1017832; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01C800o025949; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h01C740o025568 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:07:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030101120703.54495.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:07:03 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: oooops Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:07:03 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO OOOOPS! I am such an ass, you gave the era in the subject line... Sorry! ;-) Can't help with 1913 I'm afraid *hands her over to those who know* Nicole --- Ella Lynoure Rajamaki wrote: > > I'm about to start making a dress that makes me very nervous, because it's > from an era I'm not very familiar with and because it's going to be my > wedding dress. It's going to be a copy of the dress on pages 377 to 380 of > Costume in Detail 1730-1930, but I'm considering using light purple colour > instead of light blue. > > Could somebody give me hints about dressmaking or pattern making of that > era? E.g. does a "close enough" pattern already exist? > > -- > Lynoure Rajamaki > lynoure@tuug.fi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 07:07:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07903 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 07:07:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01C62i1016986; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01C610o025074; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h01C5Z0o024836 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:05:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030101120535.35399.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:05:35 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:05:35 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Ella Lynoure Rajamaki wrote: > > Could somebody give me hints about dressmaking or pattern making of that > era? E.g. does a "close enough" pattern already exist? Could you do us a favour and tell us WHICH era? I can't be asked to find my copy of Costume in detail, sorry, but it's buried somewhere... ;-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 07:09:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09785 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 07:09:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01CB2i1018443; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01CB10o027221; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h01CAe0o027091 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:10:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030101121040.55294.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:10:40 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] What costumey did you sew/make over the holidays? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20021231205114.00d56ea0@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:10:40 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > And here I am, at the tender age of 53, and I finally think I have found > what I really want to do - designing and making cloth dolls. > To say/sing it with Steppenwolf: It's never too late to start all over again! Good luck Kayta, and I can hardly wait for your website to go live and look at all the dolls! May 2003 give everyone a chance to do what they really want to do if they don't do it yet. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 07:26:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25129 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 07:26:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01CF7i1018559; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01CF50o028693; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h01CEp0o028569 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:14:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030101121450.36566.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:14:50 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] What costumey did you sew/make over the holidays? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021231185856.00a81b70@mail.attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:14:50 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- MaryAnn Jones wrote: > > I can't imagine living in an early 18th century house. Just think, the > people who lived there initially wore clothes like the ones that Bjorne > makes, except probably less fancy. Actually, when it was built they wore clothes like my mantua! It may be early 18th century in date but it's late 17th in style. The big change both in fashion and architecture came after Queen Anne's death in 1714 and with the succession to the throne by George I and the German House of Hanover. Neither he nor his son Geirge II bothered to learn English. Sheesh! ;-) Maybe he should come visit you and hold > seances and connect with the spirits of the 18th century occupants and get > their opinion on clothing. Oh trust me Maryann, I wish that were possible. :-)))) We do have a ghost, so everyone says, but she is late 18th century as far as I know. Her name is Yvonne, a girl of 17 or so, but then again she hasn't been seen since she saved Ben's life when he was a child. Well, that's what I've been told anyway, so I retell it without passing judgment. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 11:28:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32364 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:28:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01GU8i1000211; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01GU40o021581; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01GSO0o021177 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:28:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m158.in-tch.com [216.166.191.158]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h01GC4P18612 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:12:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E131748.9748654E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Happy New Year!!!!!!! References: <00c501c2b153$22307c40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 09:28:56 -0700 Status: RO Hey, same to you, Penny! and to everyone else! I have the whole day off....and I got to sleep in, and now I get to do some costuming ....Cleaning out/finishing up old stuff so I have room for my new projects! --Sue, from a sunny (!!!) and cold Missoula, Montana Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Welcome to 2003 from Chesterfield, Virginia!!!!!!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 11:46:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32447 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:46:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Gm2i1000775; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Gm10o025677; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Glu0o025632 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:47:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.154.19bb3310 (17526) for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:47:44 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <154.19bb3310.2b4475af@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_154.19bb3310.2b4475af_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:47:43 EST Status: RO --part1_154.19bb3310.2b4475af_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If there is a secret to these gowns I'd have to say its creating and fitting the understructure and draping the gown onto that. Note the boned under bodice on page 380. Get that done and out of the way and start draping onto this foundation. Notice how everything sorta hangs from the raised waist. The laces and fabrics of this era are very very light. Nothing should be crisp. The funky closing is that way as to defy the observer into just how you got into this gown. It should all look like it just fell into place on your bod. --part1_154.19bb3310.2b4475af_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If there is a secret to these gowns I'd have to say its creating and fitting the understructure and draping the gown onto that. Note the boned under bodice on page 380. Get that done and out of the way and start draping onto this foundation. Notice how everything sorta hangs from the raised waist. The laces and fabrics of this era are very very light. Nothing should be crisp. The funky closing is that way as to defy the observer into just how you got into this gown. It should all look like it just fell into place on your bod. --part1_154.19bb3310.2b4475af_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 12:47:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32648 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:47:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Hn3i1002843; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Hn00o008927; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Hmi0o008871 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-253-87.s595.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.253.87] helo=rcn.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18Tmyw-00029z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:48:42 -0500 Message-ID: <3E1329F6.87F6D33@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20021231164700.12800.82206.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Costuming over the holidays Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:48:38 -0500 Status: RO I've been working on a loose goun after Herjolfsnes no. 63, early fifteenth century. Katherine Gillesfleur (alphabet soup) gave a class on this garment at a wonderful costume symposium in New Jersey nearly a year ago now, & I've finally cut out the garment and sewn the main body seam. You may be amused to hear where I actually cut out the garment: I attended a science fiction convention in Philadelphia (Philcon) December 13-15 last year. The hotel is large and has many levels of public spaces. On the top level of huge open space, I spread out large pieces of cloth & marked them with chalk line. One garment that I marked was for a friend, a long tunic based on the Bocksten bog man's tunic, a cote and surcote for me, also based on the Bocksten find, and my H-63 redaction. I'm female, so I played around with the numbers a bit from the real goun to make a long gown. For a 60" width of fabric and a 60" length (a bit generous), I can get four right trapezoids, the narrow ends of which are 7" wide & the wide bits 23". This is the same angle of flare that the original had, where a length of 95-103 cm (37.4-40.5") has a hem circumference of 300 cm (118") (all measurements from I. Marc Carlson's page on the garment: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/herjol63.html ). The trapezoids get sewn together, two straight edges in front, then straight to bias on each side, and finishing up with a bias to bias seam center back. Then the armholes and neck holes are cut out. Both should be fairly close, for an outer garment. A small standing collar is added at the neckline. ascii pattern sketch with inches measurement: two of these for the body 60"----------------------> I \ I / I 60" I \ I / I | I \ I / I | I \ I / I | I \ I / I | I \ I / I | I \ I / I V ---------------------------- 23 7 7 23 The original is buttoned closely above the waist, where the most stress on the garment is, and has another group of buttons (or perhaps just buttonholes) about 2/3 of the way between waist and hem. How my buttons will be made and spaced depends largely on how many I make. How to make them has been covered fairly recently on this group, so I have few worries about that. The material I am using is a light weight wool crepe, which may be either the overspun threads in tabby weave or the broken twill crepe. If I have enough left over from the garment, I'll try raveling a piece & seeing which it is. Likely not an accurate material for the 15th century; the original is a "medium stout fourshaft twill with a black warp and a brown weft." (Carlson op cit.) Did I mention the color? Purest bright lapis blue; also Very unlikely. Baroness Katherine suggested a possible English fishing fleet origin for the body, which is one of a very few very late bodies in the Herjolfsnes graveyard. She suggested that the century between the earlier and the later is when the colony actually died out, & a ship just put in to bury its dead. Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 13:25:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00338 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:25:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01IR3i1004239; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01IR10o017385; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01IQP0q017263 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.132]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H81002WFMY49B@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 08:25:18 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] What costumey did you sew/make over the holidays? In-reply-to: <20030101121040.55294.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030101071514.04d41b70@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20021231205114.00d56ea0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 08:25:10 -0800 Status: RO > > And here I am, at the tender age of 53, and I finally think I have found > > what I really want to do - designing and making cloth dolls. > > >To say/sing it with Steppenwolf: > >It's never too late to start all over again! > >Good luck Kayta, and I can hardly wait for your website to go live and look at >all the dolls! It will be funstuft.com . I'm getting the dolls, graphics, and html together now, and as soon as I can get to the site from this machine, I will start building. Of course I'll have to make some space for the historical costumes I have made. Aside from the few of you who have actually met me, nobody on this list has seen any of my work. I have photos of historicals I made as far back as 1971, before I had ever seen Janet Arnold's books (when were they published?). Since I am more visual than verbal, many of these have the right shape but are made of totally incorrect fabrics. And since I am mostly self-taught, many date from before I discovered the concept of lining things. I think I have done my best work in the last ten years (having been on h-costume has been a great help), but I have few pictures of any of my later work (I will have to remedy that). Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 13:25:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00343 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:25:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01IRHi1004254; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:27:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01IRF0o017445; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:27:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01IQP0o017263 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:26:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.132]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H81002WFMY49B@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 08:25:17 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] What costumey did you sew/make over the holidays? In-reply-to: <20030101121450.36566.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030101071013.00cc99d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021231185856.00a81b70@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 07:14:28 -0800 Status: RO > Maybe he should come visit you and hold > > seances and connect with the spirits of the 18th century occupants and get > > their opinion on clothing. > >Oh trust me Maryann, I wish that were possible. :-)))) > >We do have a ghost, so everyone says, but she is late 18th century as far as I >know. Her name is Yvonne, a girl of 17 or so, but then again she hasn't been >seen since she saved Ben's life when he was a child. >Well, that's what I've been told anyway, so I retell it without passing >judgment. One of my daughters saw a ghost once, when she was about 5 or 6. It was the ghost of someone who had been a house guest at our place about a year before. To this day she is certain she saw the ghost (who told her he was OK where he was and that she shouldn't worry about him). She was able to describe what he was wearing, and said she could see right thru him anyway. I didn't see the ghost, so I can't be primary-source certain, but I am inclined to believe my child saw something. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 14:27:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00622 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:27:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01JT3i1006336; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01JT10o001169; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01JSa0o001079 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:28:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-2-171.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.2.171] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18ToXb-0005y2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 19:28:35 +0000 Message-ID: <005501c2b1cc$8cc71fe0$ab0223d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Liberty's London Fabric Sale Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:32:40 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, anyone in reach of Liberty, London might like to know that they are now selling off all of their non-Liberty fabrics at 75% off. As far as I can tell they intend to sell only Liberty fabrics in future; all the space which used to be taken up by a selection of the world's finest fabrics is being turned over to 'crafts' supplies. Numerous expletives deleted... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 14:33:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00667 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:33:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01JZ6i1006529; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:35:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01JZ30o002400; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01JYf0o002285 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m48.in-tch.com [216.166.191.48]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h01JILP09668 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:18:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1342F1.7806A9E1@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Christmas Wish References: <000801c2b180$cf0a8aa0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:35:13 -0700 Status: RO Hey, Penny! That's the best news I've heard in a long time! I know how wretchedly frustrating it can be to be in pain, and not able to do the things you love! Glad you're feeling better, and back to hanging around on the list...it's awfully quiet without you! --sue, doing a little new year's "happy dance" for you.... Penny Ladnier wrote: > > I am so thrilled!!! All I wanted for Christmas was to be able to work > without pain again. I think I have ***IT*** back. Last summer I had two > degenerative diseases hit me hard. My doctor started me on some new meds > two weeks ago... I tested myself Saturday to work on a project that I > started last summer. (I cleaned the images then.) I wanted to do the project > all by myself to see if I could do it. I finished the project just a few > minutes ago!!! In three days!!!! 70 webpages!! I am so excited I could > cry. My heart was broken when I couldn't work _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 15:41:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00846 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 15:41:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Kh2i1008824; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Kh10o016873; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01KgR0o016737 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-2-171.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.2.171] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Tph4-000454-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:42:26 +0000 Message-ID: <006301c2b1d6$dde53920$ab0223d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:46:31 -0000 Status: RO Hi, Can anyone please tell me how much satin would have been used in creating the famous green pearl strewn gown of Henrietta Maria? See a copy of this at http://freespace.virgin.net/henriettas.restaurant/henriett.htm best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 16:02:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00946 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:02:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01L4Ci1009798; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:04:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01L430o021496; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01L3P0o021354 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:03:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0145.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.250.145] helo=[209.179.216.148]) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Tq1M-00032h-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 13:03:24 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Moire fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:04:02 -0800 Status: RO I am curious about the date of the appearance of moire silks in the Near and Middle East... anyone have any information? I've seen a picture of an Ottoman garment from the 17th century made with apple green moire silk, and i'm wondering at the possibility of it being used in the 16th century... Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 16:10:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01004 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:10:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01LC3i1010332; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:12:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01LC10o023496; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01LBQ0o023353 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:11:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0145.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.250.145] helo=[209.179.216.148]) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Tq95-0004E2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 13:11:25 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] French Seams? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:12:16 -0800 Status: RO One reason i asked about French seams is that i'm in the process of making a 16th century Ottoman woman's outfit. A woman's gomlek is a white undertunic. As far as i have been able to determine, they were made of sheer cotton or silk. None seem to have survived, as far as i can tell, and paintings only show the hem (most only the very bottom, but some from the mid-thighs down) and sleeves (some from elbows to wrist) and a bit of the neckline. So i'm guessing at the upper sleeve shape and the construction of body from shoulder to mid-thighs. I've based my shape on a surviving 14th century Persian kamiz (white cotton undertunic) in a Central Asian/Turkic style - and Persian garments after the Mongol invasion and until the end of the Safavid dynasty, show much Turkic influence. One of its distinctive features is that the side gores are gathered to the bottom of the longish underarm gussets at or just a tiny bit above the waist line. The one i've made is very fine, very sheer, very light-white cotton. Because i'm making this in something of a rush - i need to leave this Friday around noon and will be wearing it Saturday - i've serged the edges - being a costuming procrastinator, i didn't start my outfit until last weekend. I don't know why i do this; i always plan many months ahead for the historical feasts i cook. This was a prototype garment. I'm actually quite pleased with how it turned out - it's a lovely shape, filmy and gossamer - although i need to make a couple very minor adjustments the next time. I'd like to finish the next one in a more historically accurate manner. However, none appear to have survived from the 16th c., so i can't tell what they actually did. French seams are, in my opinion, the nicest for fine sheer fabrics, but since they appear to be too late in time, i wonder what would be an effective, more historically accurate solution. I'm guessing hand turning every raw edge and running stitching them... Any other suggestions? Thanks, Anahita Now back to fine-tuning the skirt on the hirka (short under jacket) - then on to the entari (long outer coat)... I got the narrow-ankled silk sarwal done, but i've been making them for a couple years, so i have most of the "bugs" out of the process _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 16:32:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01138 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:32:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01LY2i1011702; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01LY1Ph028721; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h01LXHPh028534 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:33:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030101213317.3259.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 21:33:17 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] French Seams? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:33:17 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: > > French seams are, in my opinion, the nicest for fine sheer fabrics, > but since they appear to be too late in time, i wonder what would be > an effective, more historically accurate solution. I'm guessing hand > turning every raw edge and running stitching them... Any other > suggestions? Well, the one that I talked about IS a good seam for fine and sheer fanrics. I use it all the time for fine linens and have used it for semi transparent modern fabrics. All you see on the outside are the fine dots of the slip stitch that holds the folded inside excess from the seam. (I know that was a terible verbal description) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 16:39:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01148 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:39:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Lf1i1012018; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Lf0Ph000602; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01LekPh000526 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m22.in-tch.com [216.166.191.22]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h01LOQP14914 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:24:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E13607D.642F50C5@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century References: <006301c2b1d6$dde53920$ab0223d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 14:41:17 -0700 Status: RO Gawd, that's a beautiful dress....*sigh* I've seen the portrait before, but not in color. I think how much fabric you'd use would depend on your size, and the width of the fabric. I'm short, but wide, so I'd need [going with 45" wide fabric]: (clickety, clickety, hummmmm) 4 yds or so for the skirt--maybe up to a yard more, if I wanted some of that puddle-on-the-floor effect Maybe another 3 yds or so for the sleeves and bodice--depending on how "directional" the fabric is. Bjarne probably has a better idea, or maybe Nicole? --sue, wishing *she* got to do Cavalier..... Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Hi, > Can anyone please tell me how much satin would have been used in > creating the famous green pearl strewn gown of Henrietta Maria? > See a copy of this at > http://freespace.virgin.net/henriettas.restaurant/henriett.htm > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 16:50:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01197 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:50:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Lq2i1012403; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Lq1Ph003304; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h01LpTPh003207 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:51:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030101215129.95212.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 21:51:29 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E13607D.642F50C5@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:51:29 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Gawd, that's a beautiful dress....*sigh* > I've seen the portrait before, but not in color. > I think how much fabric you'd use would depend on your size, and the > width of the fabric. > I'm short, but wide, so I'd need [going with 45" wide fabric]: > (clickety, clickety, hummmmm) > 4 yds or so for the skirt--maybe up to a yard more, if I wanted some of > that puddle-on-the-floor effect > Maybe another 3 yds or so for the sleeves and bodice--depending on how > "directional" the fabric is. > Bjarne probably has a better idea, or maybe Nicole? > --sue, wishing *she* got to do Cavalier..... > Stevie, are you talking about modern day fabric widths? The Imperial taffeta I always use comes in appr. 1.40 m wide. Thus I would use three times the length for the skirt, say around 1.10 per length for my long legs, that makes 3.30 meters. Then I flounder a bit as usual, I wonder if 1.70 would do for bodice and wide sleeves, seems in this width it would, but Bjarne is the one to ask. that would make 5 meters. I can't remember for the life of me how many meters I got for the 1660's dress. Bjarne? Was it more than 5 meters? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 17:04:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01228 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:04:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01M61i1012859; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 15:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01M60Ph006510; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 15:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01M5EPh006296 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 15:05:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-2-171.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.2.171] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18TqzB-00012I-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 22:05:13 +0000 Message-ID: <007001c2b1e2$6eb3d640$ab0223d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <006301c2b1d6$dde53920$ab0223d9@dan> <3E13607D.642F50C5@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:09:18 -0000 Status: RO Sue wrote: Re: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century > Gawd, that's a beautiful dress....*sigh* > I've seen the portrait before, but not in color. It is, indeed, and I'm glad to have pointed you in the direction of a colour version. It is magnificent:-) > I think how much fabric you'd use would depend on your size, and the > width of the fabric. > I'm short, but wide, so I'd need [going with 45" wide fabric]: > (clickety, clickety, hummmmm) > 4 yds or so for the skirt--maybe up to a yard more, if I wanted some of > that puddle-on-the-floor effect > Maybe another 3 yds or so for the sleeves and bodice--depending on how > "directional" the fabric is. Thank you for the ball park figure; I am hopeless at estimating yardages and the sell-off of the Liberty fabrics is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Their duchesse satin is Indian, slightly thinner than the very stiff stuff, and I think it would drape in much the same way as the portrait. > Bjarne probably has a better idea, or maybe Nicole? > --sue, wishing *she* got to do Cavalier..... Well, if they show up I'll be grateful for their advice too, but I'll be heading back to Liberty's tomorrow morning so your help is very welcome. I've already bought a lot of fabric, including some beautiful wools- note h-cost influence, there- but fabric will keep indefinitely if stored well, so I'm buying it while I've got the chance. best wishes Stevie > Stevie Gamble wrote: > > > > Hi, > > Can anyone please tell me how much satin would have been used in > > creating the famous green pearl strewn gown of Henrietta Maria? > > See a copy of this at > > http://freespace.virgin.net/henriettas.restaurant/henriett.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 17:27:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01315 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:27:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01MJ1i1013349; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 15:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01MJ0Ph009440; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 15:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lutetium.btinternet.com (lutetium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01MIoPh009403 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 15:18:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-2-171.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.2.171] helo=dan) by lutetium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18TrCL-0006HP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 22:18:49 +0000 Message-ID: <007301c2b1e4$54f509c0$ab0223d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20030101215129.95212.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:22:55 -0000 Status: RO Nicole, > Stevie, are you talking about modern day fabric widths? Yes, but I can usually convert 45-60 inches without too much difficulty:-) It's the notion of how many yards/metres in total for any particular gown which I have problems with:-( > The Imperial taffeta I always use comes in appr. 1.40 m wide. Which is the width of the Liberty's duchesse satin, so it would be the same amount in total. >Thus I would use > three times the length for the skirt, say around 1.10 per length for my long > legs, that makes 3.30 meters. Then I flounder a bit as usual, I wonder if 1.70 > would do for bodice and wide sleeves, seems in this width it would, but Bjarne > is the one to ask. that would make 5 meters. I can't remember for the life of > me how many meters I got for the 1660's dress. Bjarne? Was it more than 5 > meters? Well, Bjarne is probably chained to his embroidery frame, but between you and Sue I have a much better idea of what I need. I am never going to get a cheaper good quality heavy silk satin, so I'm buying now. many thanks and best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 18:18:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01528 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:18:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NK5i1015595; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NK0Ph023292; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (mta2-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NJXPh023203 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:19:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.20.187]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030101231931.YOFX21072.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:19:31 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <3FE9876E-1DE7-11D7-81B0-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:15:07 +0000 Status: RO Its a lovely lovely example Ella. Light purple as in mauve,lavender etc are fine - Queen Mary made them very popular pastel shades but theres nothing wrong using any stronger tone than a pastel for 1913. Your foundation garment is ABSOLUTELY vital if you wish to carry off the historic silhouette of this gown,also remember that the skirt is narrow and hobbled so you will have to move with very small steps. Not following late Edwardian fashions I don't know if you will easily locate a pattern.Try the Sears and Roebuck publications they have a few books around the time of the First World War.Perhaps someone on the List might have a pattern for you.Its a deceptively simple gown with very serious structuring of the bodice lining under all that drapey graceful lace and tulle - and the draped over skirt you may well have to cut/sew in position which can be done. Have courage it'll look amazing when you've finished it.I do have some ref. books on very late Victorian construction if you want me to dip into them for you. Best, Marcus. On Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 11:51 am, Ella Lynoure Rajamaki wrote: > > I'm about to start making a dress that makes me very nervous, because > it's > from an era I'm not very familiar with and because it's going to be my > wedding dress. It's going to be a copy of the dress on pages 377 to 380 > of > Costume in Detail 1730-1930, but I'm considering using light purple > colour > instead of light blue. > > Could somebody give me hints about dressmaking or pattern making of that > era? E.g. does a "close enough" pattern already exist? > > -- > Lynoure Rajamaki > lynoure@tuug.fi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 18:30:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01554 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:30:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NW1i1016061; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NW0Ph025897; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (mta2-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NVoPh025864 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:31:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.20.187]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030101233148.YRRZ21072.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:31:48 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] French Seams? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:27:23 +0000 Status: RO On Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 09:12 pm, lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: > One reason i asked about French seams is that i'm in the process of > making a 16th century Ottoman woman's outfit. > manner. However, none appear to have survived from the 16th c., so i > can't tell what they actually did. > > French seams are, in my opinion, the nicest for fine sheer fabrics, but > since they appear to be too late in time, i wonder what would be an > effective, more historically accurate solution. I'm guessing hand > turning every raw edge and running stitching them... Any other > suggestions? Anahita,I can't answer your question with complete authority since the only examples of Indian garments I've been able to examine closely - date from the early and mid 18thC.Some of the finer weight cottons don't survive well and those that I've examined date from the early 19thC. The very fine fabric always has minute hems - very very tightly turned over and running stitch.Its so narrow a turn-over it looks like a rolled hem for a Western hanky.The stuff I checked out in the States and here measured about 2mm hemming. Good luck, marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 18:37:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01578 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:37:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NciiP016280; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:38:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NR4Ph024963; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NQqPh024891 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil3040.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.138.40]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01NQrkb021054 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:26:54 -0500 Message-ID: <3E137A16.6C8CB941@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] That purple Gustavus Adolphus outfit References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021231082553.03892e18@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 18:30:30 -0500 Status: RO Hi. All of the representations of GIIA that I have ever seen show him right-handed. All of the representations of the garment in question that I have seen (see previous posts) are fastened in the same place. Also, the term "cassock", although used in the 17th Cent., has taken on other meanings from what it may have once meant to folks back then. From a practical aspect, seeing as the doublet is rather tight-fitting, and the "cassock" over it tight-fitting also, it would not be likely that the King would wear a baldric over the doublet and under the cassock. I believe that we moderns have a varied view of the wearing of sidearms than folks back then. The King of Sweden, unless intending to appear very bellicose at a public function, would most likely not be wearing his sword. He had his Trabanten to protect his person. In addition, though, he had been wounded in the neck at Dirschau in 1627, and didn't wear armor thereafter, and complained of a difficulty in using his right arm. Further analysis of things such as his handwriting might shed some light on his handedness, although, as I mentioned, I have seen other representations of the same garment, fastened on the same side. Cheers, Mike T. (and a Happy New Year to All) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 18:37:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01582 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:37:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Nd1i1016316; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Nd0Ph027502; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Nc2Ph027256 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.169] (pm5-169.eos.net [205.133.149.169]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27019 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:38:00 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030101190009.24782.52669.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 18:35:09 -0500 Status: RO Okay, I'll bite -- what's the story of the ghost? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 18:51:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01627 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:51:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Nr2i1016923; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h01Nr1Ph001060; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h01NqXPh000932 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:52:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030101235232.8097.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:52:32 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:52:32 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > Okay, I'll bite -- what's the story of the ghost? Gail I really don't think I can make that costume related, other than the pictures drawn by a medium in 1970s seances, that show the girl in costume, and what the Gypsy cleaning lady saw, so I'll mail you privately tomorrow. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 19:02:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01673 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:02:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02041i1017350; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02041Ph004117; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0203YPh003982 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:03:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip237.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.237]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0203V423724 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:03:31 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] French Seams? Message-ID: <3E131168.7447.64A391F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030101213317.3259.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:03:52 -0800 Status: RO > --- lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: > > > > French seams are, in my opinion, the nicest for fine sheer fabrics, > > but since they appear to be too late in time, i wonder what would be > > an effective, more historically accurate solution. I'm guessing hand > > turning every raw edge and running stitching them... Any other > > suggestions? Nicole replied: > Well, the one that I talked about IS a good seam for fine and sheer > fanrics. I use it all the time for fine linens and have used it for > semi transparent modern fabrics. All you see on the outside are the > fine dots of the slip stitch that holds the folded inside excess from > the seam. (I know that was a terible verbal description) She describes it better than I can, but if you want to see diagrams, look in Clothing and Textiles (the MOL book). This is what I use all the time on my sheers (like on my black silk organza shrug that went with my reunion dress as well as on my historical dresses.) It keeps the fabric from raveling and fraying, as well as looking nice. In another post lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: > One reason i asked about French seams is that i'm in the process of > making a 16th century Ottoman woman's outfit. Have you looked at the stitching methods in the Topkapi Museum textile collection book? It has some 16th C garments so that you can get an idea about how they have done it (for the future, since you said that you've already serged this one.) For this one, you can do a modified version of the run-and-fell (which was also used pre1600) where you press all the seam allowance to one side then stitch close to the seam through all 3 layers. This will help keep the garment from pulling the serging out (and the serging will keep the edges from fraying so much.) This kind (unlike the slipstitched method) can be done on the sewing machine for the hand-impaired or time-limited. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 19:53:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01867 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:53:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h020t3i1019660; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h020t1Ph017510; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h020sYPh017375 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:54:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h021QYaB023533; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:26:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h021QO3F023531; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:26:24 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] What costumey did you sew/make over the holidays? User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20021231164658.22307.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20021231172721.00de09b0@pop.directcon.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20021231172721.00de09b0@pop.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301012026.24271.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h020sYPh017375 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:26:24 -0500 Status: RO On Tuesday 31 December 2002 08:27 pm, Margo Anderson wrote: > A One is never too old to make a complete U-turn in one's > > >> career. :-)))) > >> > >> Nicole - who FINALLY realised what she really, really wants to do, at > > the age > > >> of almost 34. > > Nicole, you're a mere child! I was 43 when my life's work became apparent. I *am* 43 and my life's work has yet to become apparent. :-) > Of course, I had my mother's example to look to; she decided at the age of > 37 to become a lawyer. Which was no small undertaking for a married woman > with three children, in a small town 50 miles from the nearest law school, > in 1968. She did it, though, and is still practicing, and one of the few > lawyers I know who actually loves her work. I *am* a lawyer. And although being one can be fun at times, it's still not quite what I wanted. Though everyone's mileage varies. My boss has a PhD in English literature and a teaching position... and he chucked it all to go to law school. He is now a well-respected litigator and, like Margo's mother, really loves his work. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 19:59:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01890 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:59:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02101i1019857; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02101Ph018782; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h020xUPh018606 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:59:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h021VWaB023556; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:31:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h021VTsZ023554; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:31:29 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, "michaela" Subject: Re: [h-cost] disciplining deaf 'fabric cats' (wasRe: Site update because: [h-cost] What'd you get for Christmas? User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <4.3.1.2.20021231163345.00d5b520@mail.frys.com> <001d01c2b138$f3b07d30$f6d4adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <001d01c2b138$f3b07d30$f6d4adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301012031.29484.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h020xUPh018606 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:31:29 -0500 Status: RO On Tuesday 31 December 2002 08:56 pm, michaela wrote: > > If he is all white, he may have been born Deaf. Discipline him with a > > water squirt bottle or squirt gun, because he won't hear your frantic > > cries > > > of 'get off my fabric!'. You could also use a rolled up sock to throw at > > him, same purpose. Pounding on something near him, where he can feel the > > vibrations, may get his attention. He won't be able to hear the can > > opener > > > work, but he will be able to smell the cat food (you probably know that > > by now). > > Yeah:) I had a good search of the web and found a page to work out just how > deaf he is (he actually has green in his eyes, and our first white cat had > green eyes and could hear) Supposedly it's the blue-eyed all-white cats who are deaf. > He can't hear high pitches (jaggling keys) nor > low pitches (likes hte vacuum cleaner...) but he is learning to feel > vibrations when I stamp the floor or bang on the dresser where he gets fed. Interesting. So maybe the green-eyed white cats only have impaired hearing. I wonder if the impairment is in proportion to how much blue is in their eye color.... > Unfortunately he likes things being thrown at him and thinks it's a game;) > And he's not too shy of water. I'm going to try and find just what stream > and temp of water though will work as my drink bottle with a sipper top is > more fun for him than anything;) A fairly aggressive mist from an actual spray-mist bottle works on my cat. If you get one that has the option of shooting a stream of water as well as mist, you can experiment. > Heck he even likes to nibble my pin cushion with all the lovely spikey > needles in it;) That's different. Some cats are just naturally attracted to dangerous objects in general. I have a friend whose cats, back when they were kittens, cut themselves up badly by playing with safety razors (the disposable kind with unremovable blades...). Good luck in training your furry handful. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 20:11:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01927 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:11:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021D1i1020607; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021D0Ph022763; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021CuPh022724 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m7.in-tch.com [216.166.191.7]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h020uaP14551 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:56:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E139234.8C39BBCC@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost References: <20030101235232.8097.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 18:13:24 -0700 Status: RO Me, too? --sue N Kipar wrote: > > --- Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > > Okay, I'll bite -- what's the story of the ghost? > > Gail I really don't think I can make that costume related, other than the > pictures drawn by a medium in 1970s seances, that show the girl in costume, and > what the Gypsy cleaning lady saw, so I'll mail you privately tomorrow. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 20:16:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01947 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:16:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021I2i1021076; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021I1Ph024190; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021HnPh024124 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18TtzX-0002Dw-00; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:17:47 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: , Message-ID: <000001c2b1fc$c9faffa0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2B1C2.1D9C27A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Transfer paper for Laserjets? Help Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:17:58 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2B1C2.1D9C27A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone here have any experience with laserjet transfer papers? I am looking for the kind that you iron on to fabric after it is printed. I see lots of stuff for inkjets, but not laser. Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2B1C2.1D9C27A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Does anyone here have any experience with laserjet transfer papers?  I am looking for the kind that = you iron on to fabric after it is printed.

I see lots of stuff for inkjets, but not = laser.

Sg

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2B1C2.1D9C27A0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 20:24:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01977 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:24:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021QBi1021556; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021QBPh026427; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBU6hqu1020831 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2002 23:43:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.195.13050a6b (16111) for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2002 01:43:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m09.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.137]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID123-1230014343; Mon, 30 Dec 2002 01:43:43 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <54B3B951.0B781767.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Pattern Critique Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 01:43:42 -0500 Status: RO Greetings All! I know I saw a pattern critique of various patterns avialable out there, but I am having trouble finding it now, can anyone help? Thanks, Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 20:24:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01982 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:24:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021Q8i1021540; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:26:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021Q8Ph026397; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:26:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.istop.com (ns.istop.com [66.11.168.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBU4R6u1020509 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2002 21:27:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from eggnog (unknown [66.11.170.46]) by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8F8B1735D for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2002 23:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from skud by eggnog with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18SrW4-0001kX-00 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2002 23:27:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-Id: From: Kirrily Robert Subject: [h-cost] Victorian underpinnings and erotic photography Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 23:27:04 -0500 Status: RO As the subject line suggests, this message involves adult themes. If this bothers you, please skip this message. I was looking for Victorian-era "French postcards" (i.e. erotic/nude photography) and came across a site with some fairly explicit photographs apparently dating to the late 19th century. However, this isn't my period, so I was wondering if anyone here would like to take a look at the site and tell me what you think of their clothes (mostly you'll see underpinnings, both male and female, as well as some outer garments on the men) and whether you think the pictures are authentic, and when you'd date them to. The website is: http://www.insenses.org/virtualboxon/index.htm Of course this site contains ADULT CONTENT and is actually quite explicit, moreso than the average Victorian nude photos. You have been warned. But please, if you are into that sort of thing and would like to take a look, let me know what you think of the clothes. Feel free to respond off-list if you would prefer. Yours, Kirrily (SCA: Katherine Rowberd) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 20:24:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01983 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:24:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021Q1i1021528; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021Q0Ph026347; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBU07Zu1020790 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:07:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.18a.13aa3061 (17228) for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:07:26 -0500 (EST) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <18a.13aa3061.2b40e83d@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_18a.13aa3061.2b40e83d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10641 Subject: [h-cost] Ageless Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:07:25 EST Status: RO --part1_18a.13aa3061.2b40e83d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All! Can anyone tell me anything about Ageless Patterns? I am a little leary of them since they label themselves as "Historic Costumes for Theatrical Costumers". Thanks, Kit --part1_18a.13aa3061.2b40e83d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All!

Can anyone tell me anything about Ageless Patterns?  I am a little leary of them since they label themselves as "Historic Costumes for Theatrical Costumers".

Thanks,
Kit --part1_18a.13aa3061.2b40e83d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 20:24:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01989 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:24:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021QFi1021571; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:26:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021QEPh026448; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:26:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBV3Wcc0001896 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2002 20:32:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from gti.net (morr0668.gti.net [208.216.122.68]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id D408E3567C; Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:32:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E110FD6.DAD9BD46@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: [h-cost] Need Source for Journals, Dissertations, etc. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 22:32:38 -0500 Status: RO Hey People, I have a book source-related question... Does anyone know of a web site (or actual store) that sells doctoral dissertations &/or scholastic journals? I am looking for a specific issue of "Theater Journal" in either paper or downloadable form for personal research. One site has it for download (muse.jhu.edu), but it isn't available to the general public for some reason. Let me emphasize here that I am NOT looking for one of those silly companies that sells pre-written 'term papers' for cheating in college or whatever. I did a Google search & plenty of those came up....that is not what I'm looking for. There used to be this *one* site I knew of called contentville.com, that sold journals, etc., but it has gone under. That was the only site I knew of that with journals. Well, anyway, if anyone knows of a place...please share the wealth?? I am pretty bummed about contentville going under :( Thanks! Deb R. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 20:26:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01996 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:26:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021S2i1021656; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021S1Ph026942; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021RePh026776 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:27:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.124.3.160] (p00.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.160]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25545 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:22:34 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021229201622.03e77da8@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Canadian farmers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 18:01:02 -0700 Status: RO I will be designing costumes for a play soon that deals with Canadian farmers in Ontario in the 1970s. While I imagine their clothing wouldn't be much different from American farmers, I would love to be able to research this a little but I haven't a clue where to find any pictorial info. Anyone out there from Canada or anyone with any ideas? Sylvia Rognstad _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 20:51:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02042 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:51:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021r2i1022710; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021r1Ph003515; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h021q4Ph003252 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.15d.19c62c0f (3699) for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:51:56 -0500 (EST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: <15d.19c62c0f.2b44f53b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:51:55 EST Status: RO Nicole--- I happen to also be very very interested in this as well---could you also mail me privately--- thanks so very much--- Albra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 21:10:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02070 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:10:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022C2i1023462; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022C1Ph008263; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022BuPh008209 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:11:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <20030102021150002000fdlpe>; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:11:50 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c2b204$4e846cf0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian underpinnings and erotic photography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:11:48 -0800 Status: RO My GOODNESS! Yes, for those easily shocked, be warned that these photographs are (ahem) action shots. They're actually quite hilarious -- am I the only one who thinks the boy in the first few groups looks about 12? Unfortunately, I'm not too sure of the date on the clothing -- the pompadour hairstyles on the women make me think 1900-1905ish, but that's just a guess. The girl in Chambre 5 appears to be dressed in children's clothing (well, clothing for a pre-teen girl) -- I wonder if that might give us any hints? - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 21:13:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02077 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:13:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022F1i1023698; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022F1Ph008981; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022EZPh008869 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:14:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18TusV-0007mb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 18:14:35 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost Message-ID: <000401c2b204$b97dfc10$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: <15d.19c62c0f.2b44f53b@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:14:47 -0700 Status: RO Me too- Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of AlbraKat@aol.com >Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 6:52 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost > >Nicole--- >I happen to also be very very interested in this as well---could you also >mail me privately--- >thanks so very much--- >Albra >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 21:15:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02083 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:15:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022H5i1023821; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022H5Ph009686; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022GmPh009560 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:16:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003010202164200100avclke>; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:16:42 +0000 Message-ID: <002a01c2b204$fc9016f0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <54B3B951.0B781767.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern Critique MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:16:40 -0800 Status: RO Are you thinking of the Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild's _Great Pattern Review_? http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/index.html - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 21:15:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02087 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:15:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022H1i1023813; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022H1Ph009651; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h022G2Ph009246 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003010202155600200lk0vve>; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:15:56 +0000 Message-ID: <002101c2b204$e0fee650$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <3E110FD6.DAD9BD46@gti.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Source for Journals, Dissertations, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:15:53 -0800 Status: RO Deb, Many public libraries offer interlibrary loan services, usually for a fee. If there's a college or university in your area, you can also drop by and have access to their electronic resources on site -- I'm a librarian at USC, and I know we let anyone use our electronic databases (eg Project Muse) when they're physically in our library (you have to be a current student, faculty or staff to use them off-site, however). - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 22:15:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02282 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:15:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h023H5i1026175; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:17:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h023H1Ph024329; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h023GKPh024091 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h023mQaB024092; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:48:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h023mPKg024090; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:48:25 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Kirrily Robert Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian underpinnings and erotic photography User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301012248.25681.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h023GKPh024091 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:48:25 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 29 December 2002 11:27 pm, Kirrily Robert wrote: > As the subject line suggests, this message involves adult themes. If > this bothers you, please skip this message. > > I was looking for Victorian-era "French postcards" (i.e. erotic/nude > photography) and came across a site with some fairly explicit > photographs apparently dating to the late 19th century. However, this > isn't my period, so I was wondering if anyone here would like to take a > look at the site and tell me what you think of their clothes (mostly > you'll see underpinnings, both male and female, as well as some outer > garments on the men) and whether you think the pictures are authentic, > and when you'd date them to. Actually, I'd guess about a decade earlier than Kendra, judging from the hair. 1890's or so. Though I freely admit that I'm not expert in the period and that they could be fakes. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 23:05:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02403 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:05:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02472i1027990; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02470Ph005950; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0246VPh005853 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:06:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030102040630.47530.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:06:30 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <15d.19c62c0f.2b44f53b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:06:30 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- AlbraKat@aol.com wrote: > Nicole--- > I happen to also be very very interested in this as > well---could you also > mail me privately--- > thanks so very much--- Umm...me too...please? Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 1 23:15:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02419 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:14:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h024GFi1028291; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h024GFPh008113; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h024FjPh007964 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:15:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip241.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.241]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h024Ff420707 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:15:43 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost Message-ID: <3E134C73.1849.730E426@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030102040630.47530.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> References: <15d.19c62c0f.2b44f53b@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:15:47 -0800 Status: RO > --- AlbraKat@aol.com wrote: > Nicole--- > > I happen to also be very very interested in this as > > well---could you also > > mail me privately--- > > thanks so very much--- > > > Umm...me too...please? Sigh. At this rate you might as well send it to the list. ;) But if you could include me on that *long* list of "me toos" I would appreciate it. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 00:15:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02726 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:15:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h025H3i1000433; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h025H1Ph021226; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h025G2Ph020952 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m8.in-tch.com [216.166.191.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h024xgP20403 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:59:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E13CB34.59D7D53C@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost References: <15d.19c62c0f.2b44f53b@aol.com> <3E134C73.1849.730E426@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 22:16:36 -0700 Status: RO Hey, as long as she describes what the ghost is *wearing,* that'd _sorta_ count as Obligatory Costume Content, wouldn't it? --sue, already on the "me, too" list ;-D kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > --- AlbraKat@aol.com wrote: > Nicole--- > > > I happen to also be very very interested in this as > > > well---could you also > > > mail me privately--- > > > thanks so very much--- > > > > > > Umm...me too...please? > > Sigh. At this rate you might as well send it to the list. ;) > > But if you could include me on that *long* list of "me toos" I would > appreciate it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 00:45:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02798 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:45:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h025l2i1001524; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h025l0Ph028822; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h025kbPh028708 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:46:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m8.in-tch.com [216.166.191.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h025UHP29316 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:30:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E13D25F.20CD7C16@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions abook studies. References: <20021210091352.F67859-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 22:47:11 -0700 Status: RO I tried a couple of those (using the variants that Arnold has in the front section of her book). I just ended up with weird fullness in the underarm section. Of course, I was using scrap cotton to test the patterns--not very heavy or thick or stiff, any of which might make a difference. It's definitely something I'd like to figure out, though. There are a number of 16th c. gowns that have that sort of fullness at the top of what's obviously a one-piece sleeve. --sue, winnowing out old emails > On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Dhannti wrote: > > > > > > > Drea Leed wrote: > > > > > > Hm. It's hard to tell with all the black and the gold trim on top, but it > > > may have been accomplished using a pattern like that at > > > http://costume.dm.net/Tailors/pages/f87L.html > > > > > > The extra fabric for the puff is added to the underseam side, so when the > > > sleeve is gathered at the top, it has an interesting puff. > > > > > > > Thank you for the link I'm going to try it with a mockup. I'll let you > > know how it works out. > > > > Di _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 02:44:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04988 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:44:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h027k6i1004820; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h027k1Ph020985; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h027jjPh020919 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:45:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-121-130.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.130]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AON74724; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:46:30 GMT Message-ID: <006601c2b233$b8820480$82794ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] French Seams? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:51:11 -0000 Status: RO >French seams are, in my opinion, the nicest for fine sheer fabrics, but since they appear to be too late in time, i wonder what would be an effective, more historically accurate solution. I'm guessing hand turning every raw edge and running stitching them... Any other suggestions? Blanket stitch (or buttonhole stitch) appears very early as a finishing technique, also another overcast stitch, I'll try & look it up. If you arn't sure what I mean by the terminology I'll try a pic :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 05:11:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11490 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:11:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02AD2i1007993; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 03:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02AD0Ph022631; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 03:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02ACnPh020833 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 03:12:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from p17-nas5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.209.17] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18U2LH-0005GL-00; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:12:47 +1300 Message-ID: <007e01c2b247$7e32b630$11d1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <15d.19c62c0f.2b44f53b@aol.com> <3E134C73.1849.730E426@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:12:43 +1300 Status: RO > Sigh. At this rate you might as well send it to the list. ;) > > But if you could include me on that *long* list of "me toos" I would > appreciate it. lol! Yep, and if she doesn't send it to the list can I add a me too here as well... michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 05:34:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12415 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:34:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Aa1i1008566; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 03:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Aa0Ph019489; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 03:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02AZRPh019406 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 03:35:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B304F10F4B0 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:35:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip120.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.120]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 11C7010FA2E for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:35:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <029a01c2b24a$a66cfe00$78614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <15d.19c62c0f.2b44f53b@aol.com> <3E134C73.1849.730E426@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:35:18 -0500 Status: RO And me! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 11:15 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost > > > --- AlbraKat@aol.com wrote: > Nicole--- > > > I happen to also be very very interested in this as > > > well---could you also > > > mail me privately--- > > > thanks so very much--- > > > > > > Umm...me too...please? > > Sigh. At this rate you might as well send it to the list. ;) > > But if you could include me on that *long* list of "me toos" I would > appreciate it. > > Kat Russell > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 06:03:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13609 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 06:03:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02B57i1009077; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 04:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02B51Ph024263; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 04:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02B4tPh024229 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 04:04:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030102110454.93931.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 11:04:54 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <007e01c2b247$7e32b630$11d1adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Nicole's 'Costumed' ghost story Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:04:54 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Okay, okay, I get the hint, sorry for having created a flurry of me too mails *grins* Please delete this mail if such contents of the supernatural might disturb you. The below is a tale that I was told by several and it is up to everyone else to believe it or delete it or not. The following is what I was told by Colin, who was part of the seance and other bits. I pass no judgement, everyone make out of the following what they wish. I have to start saying that Colin is the child of a mother who was the thirteenth child of a thirteenth child and whose family was gypsie. He seems to be prone to the sixth sense due to other things happening in his life, and I have no reason whatsoever not to believe what he told me. Also, his wife told me the same stories when she was alive, she was part of all of these things too. Let's get out of the way with the thin veil of costume reference: at the seance in the 1970s the medium drew pictures as if she were Yvonne, one of herself, and the shape of the clothing suggests 19th century, it's the bell shaped skirt and small hairdo, bun in the back type. I know nothing about the period, so I really don't know from when that would be. She also drew pictures of the 'muffin man' that was a street seller who would come and sell muffins, and Yvonne apparently liked those very much and it was one of her few enjoyments. She was house-bound because she was ill, a degenerative illness it seems, she couldn't walk, and she died, I think at the age of 17 or thereabouts. Now, I have to start at the very beginning, and that is before Colin and Sue (Ben's mother) ever met, each of them independantly had seen the house no 2 Prospect Row and said 'one day I will live in it' because they liked it so much. They were mightily surprised when they found out once they met, that they both wanted that house. The family who lived in the house before Colin and Sue had lost a daughter, at the same age as Yvonne, at 17, and suddenly, she had meningitis. This was such a trauma for the family, naturally, that they wanted to move, but the mother was reluctant, the housebeing such a strong connection to her daughter. This family too had mentioned some strange things, a girl, in the house, but I know nothing further about this. Now ontowards the seances. I don't quite know why Colin and Sue started to look into this (using drawings and writings by a medium and the Ouija board) but I think it had to do with the gypsie cleaner, who used to clean in the mornings while Colin and Sue were at work at school. She one day said 'now who is that nice young daughter of yours'? And she described the girl, who she saw sitting in the front room when she came in, but she seemed to disappear. Being the rather open minded lady the cleaner was, she was not bothered to much by that, and the girl was nice and smiled at her anyway, but always just sat in a chair. I think there were other events that made them believe there was a ghost, like just feeling her presence. BTW I still have the drawings safely tucked away. As far as I know Colin and Sue and others held only a couple or three seances, and when I asked why, he said that it was so striking, so strong, so real, that they felt they must not dabble with a power they might very well not be able to control, it got 'too much' so they said. He was evasive even after all these years, and Sue never told me either a sufficient answer why they stopped, so I have my suspicions, that Yvonne just really felt too real. One of the things that came out in the seance was that Yvonne loved roses, and she said that she had scratched a small rose into the glass of the door to the wash place (now a toilet beside the master bedroom) hidden away. Lo and behold, no one had ever seen that rose before, but there it is. All our doors are still the original ones from when the house was built, BTW, except for the outside doors. The big story though is, that Ben had convulsions as a child until he was ten or so. One night he had the worst convulsions ever, he was in his bedroom, which is on the top floor, above where Sue's and Colin's bedroom was, and he would have died had he not been brought to the hospital. Sue and Colin slept though, but Sue was woken by a girl's voice, a very urgent one, and she felt a touch, the girl saying 'wake up, wake up, your son is dyeing'. Sue swore that it was so real, that she was very definitely woken by that girl, and she even said that when she opened her eyes she could see a glimse of her shadow/figure. Needless to say, they raced upstairs, found Ben just in time, and he is here and healthy nowadays. Both Colin and Sue always swore that if 'this girl' (Yvonne) had not woken them, there would be no more Ben. Last but not least, when Ben had survived his 18th birthday Sue cried, because she had always feared in the back of her mind that he might die too at the age of 17. He did not, apparently, and Yvonne has not been seen since to my knowledge. I personally don't think she is in the house anymore, I certainly never felt her presence and I am rather prone to 'things between heaven and earth that are inexplicable' too. Somehow I think she is at peace now, but then again, what do I know, probably nothing. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 07:01:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16445 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:01:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02C33i1010069; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02C31Ph004296; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02C22Ph004088 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.12f.1f2584c3 (657) for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:00:30 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <12f.1f2584c3.2b4583de@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Source for Journals, Dissertations, etc. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_12f.1f2584c3.2b4583de_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:00:30 EST Status: RO --part1_12f.1f2584c3.2b4583de_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/1/2003 8:27:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, martyr@gti.net writes: > that sells > doctoral dissertations Can't help with the journals, but I believe you can buy any dissertation that is registered with them from Dissertation Abstracts. Do you have access to a library that can get you things on interlibrary loan? They should be able to get you the journal and any dissertation you should want. Ann Wass --part1_12f.1f2584c3.2b4583de_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/1/2003 8:27:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, martyr@gti.net writes:


that sells
doctoral dissertations


Can't help with the journals, but I believe you can buy any dissertation that is registered with them from Dissertation Abstracts.

Do you have access to a library that can get you things on interlibrary loan?  They should be able to get you the journal and any dissertation you should want.

Ann Wass --part1_12f.1f2584c3.2b4583de_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 07:06:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16706 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:05:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02C71i1010333; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02C71Ph004967; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02C6xPh004958 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:06:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030102120659.4978.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:06:59 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Costume site: a feast for the eyes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:06:59 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO I found the following site while having a moment of senseless surfing. :-) I think it is beautifully made and while not a single costumes is even REMOTELY historical, if you look at them all under the 'fantasy' and 'historically inspired' label, they are indeed a feast for the eye: http://www.costumesalon.com/ Nicole - who is getting some inspiration from the site ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 07:13:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17189 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:13:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02CF3i1010707; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02CF2Ph006393; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02CE9Ph006158 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:14:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030102121408.95238.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:14:08 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Source for Journals, Dissertations, etc. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <12f.1f2584c3.2b4583de@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: marquis@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:14:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO You can buy American dissertations from ProQuest. Been there, done that, am fully satisfied with their service and got the URl from, I think, Chris on the list: http://www.umi.com/ Nicole --- AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/1/2003 8:27:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, martyr@gti.net > writes: > > > > that sells > > doctoral dissertations > > Can't help with the journals, but I believe you can buy any dissertation that > > is registered with them from Dissertation Abstracts. > > Do you have access to a library that can get you things on interlibrary loan? > > They should be able to get you the journal and any dissertation you should > want. > > Ann Wass > ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 09:07:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27468 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:07:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02E96i1014188; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02E91Ph027877; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02E8fPh027758 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:08:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m54.in-tch.com [216.166.191.54]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h02DqKP16485 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 06:52:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E14480B.EF16670F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume site: a feast for the eyes References: <20030102120659.4978.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 07:09:15 -0700 Status: RO They *do* look like fun, Nicole. Thanks for sharing. --sue, who sometimes enjoys costume movies as fun _movies_, sometimes ;-D N Kipar wrote: > > I found the following site while having a moment of senseless surfing. :-) I > think it is beautifully made and while not a single costumes is even REMOTELY > historical, if you look at them all under the 'fantasy' and 'historically > inspired' label, they are indeed a feast for the eye: > > http://www.costumesalon.com/ > > Nicole - who is getting some inspiration from the site _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 09:28:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32458 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:28:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02EU4i1014828; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02EU2Ph002886; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02ETgPh002745 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:29:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.17c.148186f5 (3932) for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:29:32 -0500 (EST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: <17c.148186f5.2b45a6cc@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nicole's 'Costumed' ghost story To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:29:32 EST Status: RO Thanks so much for sharing this storey Nicole.Very very thought procoking---and I DO believe, BTW, that there are 'many things between heavan and earth' that don't fit easily into our everyday three dimensional world. Have experienced something very similar on several occassions in my life--as well as hear of them from my mother, grandmother--and when she was still alive --greatgrandmother. In my most dramatic instance--I was warned by the 'resident ghost'---a Mrs Johnson-- that there was a fire in my house--if I had'nt heeded this --I would not still have my house standing. And yes, Nicole--if the girl has not been seen again ---she may very well have left --and feel at peace now:) Many thanks again Albra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 09:56:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04378 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:56:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Er1i1015767; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Er0Ph008696; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Eq8Ph008404 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18U6hb-0000D9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 06:52:07 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume site: a feast for the eyes Message-ID: <000001c2b26e$8ca4ea40$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030102120659.4978.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:52:18 -0700 Status: RO Wow! Talk about prolific! I think it is great that dressing up is becoming more popular. (Or is it that I am just starting to hang out with people who have been doing it forever?) Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 10:03:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04890 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:03:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02F52i1016186; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02F51Ph011618; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02F4hPh011509 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-98-203.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.98.203]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOC60863; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:02:36 GMT Message-ID: <02d901c2b270$400e5e80$7c704ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: "LIST H costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Pucci type fabrics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:04:23 -0000 Status: RO Any ideas where you can but Pucci type fabrics anyone ? Thanks Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 10:54:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24211 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:54:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Fu2i1019002; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Fu0Ph000440; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02FtYPh000259 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h02FtLVt076713 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:55:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301021555.h02FtLVt076713@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] interlibrary loan Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:55:21 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Does anyone (Kendra?) know where a good starter guide to using interlibrary loan is online? I'd really like to try to find copies of some of the out of print books on Worth, since I'm going to be creating an 1880s dress in his style for class this year. .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 10:59:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28858 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:59:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02G12i1019449; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02G11Ph002720; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02G0NPh002422 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.103] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A08E433026E; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 10:53:50 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c2b278$7a429a00$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2B24E.77A83220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Costume 2003 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:02:40 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2B24E.77A83220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Happy New Year All! = = My first costume of the new = year turns out to be an art-to-wear coat, mandarin style. = I have just returned from a = tag-a-long business trip to Philadelphia and spent one glorious = afternoon down on Fourth Ave. It was a dangerous place to be, not so = much as for the 'footpads' as for all those bolts of fabric trying to = assault my purse. One was more fortunate than the others and after an = almost knockdown encounter, IT crawled into my bag and back to the hotel = we went, planning how it would like to be made up. Thus, the coat. The = fabric is a cotton-rayon jacquard, black in color, patterned with a tiny = honeycomb like design. This is the background for the myriad's of = dragon flies whirling about. Gold and white in color, they appear to be = embroidered until you see the back side; here are the two inch wide = stripes of gold(and white) of the underside weave and the reverse of the = flies in black. So 'we' decided not to line the coat so that all the = glories of the fabric might be admired. = Yesterday I cut IT out and assembled the pieces. I will be inserting a = velvet mandarin collar in the finishing hand work. As this is = upholstery fabric, I have decided to cover the pressed seams with 1.5" = black twill tape so as to avoid bulk . The buttons are going to be = self-covered, using clips of dragonflies that managed to escape the = scissors. = Another piece I acquired is a length of polished sateen with = groups of geishas partying about. This will be made up as a long Tabard = vest/sleeveless coat lined with a green Asian geometric design. (I have = a number of these garments that at are useful to throw over work clothes = when I haven't time to dress for an opening night). = I = received the Kyoto book along with the Seeley French Fashion volume, and = another vintage wedding book among my presents. These are certainly = going to stimulate my mind as to what to do with some of the STASH in = this new year. In addition to people costumes I have discovered that I = have a lot of naked dolls that are crying out to be clothed. And I = intend to listen to their Calls. = = = Immediate chores are a Twentieth Century retro fashion show for = the Library in Feb. and to start preparing for a production of the = 'Crucible' in April . Kathleen = = = =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2B24E.77A83220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Happy New Year All!    =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20  My first costume of the new year turns out to be an art-to-wear = coat,=20 mandarin style.           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     I=20 have just returned from a tag-a-long business trip to Philadelphia = and=20 spent one glorious afternoon down on Fourth Ave. It was a dangerous = place to be,=20 not so much as for the 'footpads' as for all those bolts of = fabric=20 trying to assault my purse. One was more fortunate than the others and = after an=20 almost knockdown encounter, IT crawled into my bag and back to the hotel = we=20 went, planning how it would like to be made up.  Thus, the coat. = The fabric=20 is a cotton-rayon jacquard, black in color, patterned with a tiny = honeycomb=20 like design.  This is the background for the myriad's of dragon = flies=20 whirling about. Gold and white in color, they appear to be embroidered = until you=20 see the back side; here are the two inch wide stripes of gold(and = white) of=20 the underside weave and the reverse of the flies in black. So 'we' = decided=20 not to line the coat so that  all the glories of the fabric might = be=20 admired.            =20        =20           Yesterday I cut = IT out=20 and assembled the pieces. I will be inserting a velvet mandarin collar = in the=20 finishing hand work.  As this is upholstery fabric, I have decided = to cover=20 the pressed seams with 1.5" black twill tape so as to avoid bulk . = The=20 buttons are going to be self-covered, using clips of dragonflies that = managed to=20 escape the scissors.        =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20            Another piece I = acquired is a=20 length of polished sateen with groups of geishas partying about. This = will be=20 made up as a long Tabard vest/sleeveless coat lined with a green Asian = geometric=20 design. (I have a number of these garments that at are useful to throw = over work=20 clothes when I haven't time to dress for an opening=20 night).            =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     I=20 received the Kyoto book along with the Seeley French Fashion volume, and = another=20 vintage wedding book among my presents. These are certainly going to = stimulate=20 my mind as to what to do with some of the STASH in this new year. In = addition to=20 people costumes I have discovered that I have a lot of naked dolls that = are=20 crying out to be clothed. And I intend to listen to their=20 Calls.            =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20      Immediate chores are a Twentieth Century retro = fashion=20 show for the Library in Feb. and to start preparing for a production of = the=20 'Crucible'  in April .=20             &= nbsp;Kathleen          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;         
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2B24E.77A83220-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 11:16:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10670 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:16:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02GI2i1020889; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02GI0Ph010206; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02GHUPh009999 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:17:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fbe.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.190]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DB9B15EED92 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:17:28 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c2b27a$9daab5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <006301c2b1d6$dde53920$ab0223d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:18:41 +0100 Status: RO Hi Stevie. Better late than never, just got back from work! You only need 2 heights of the skirt + a little for seams and trail. This is more than enough, remember the front skirt is almost without any pleats. Then i would say about 2, 5 meter for the bodice and sleaves, this should be more than plenty. I did make such a dress once, only with a wired collar and stiff cuffs. I made it in red taffeta. But it is so many years ago, and i dont have any pictures, i am afraid. But the cut of it is not that hard to make. If you have any questions, please ask me. Lucky you to have such an opportunity to go shopping at Libertys when they have such fine sales. Good luck! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century > Hi, > Can anyone please tell me how much satin would have been used in > creating the famous green pearl strewn gown of Henrietta Maria? > See a copy of this at > http://freespace.virgin.net/henriettas.restaurant/henriett.htm > > best wishes > Stevie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 11:24:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18746 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:24:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02GP2i1021611; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02GP1Ph013584; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02GOKPh013137 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2003010216241500300lbgcpe>; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:24:15 +0000 Message-ID: <003101c2b27b$62ab9a10$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <200301021555.h02FtLVt076713@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlibrary loan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:24:12 -0800 Status: RO Hi Heather! I'd check the website and/or call (or go in) to your local public (or academic) library. Each library has different policies and procedures. Basically, how it works is that most libraries are linked through some kind of network. You go in to the library and tell them which book, journal article, dissertation, whatever it is you're looking for. They contact the libraries in their network to find out who has a copy available for loan. Books and dissertations are physically loaned (sometimes you're only allowed to use them in the library -- depends on the policies of the lending library), while articles are usually faxed (means you get to keep the copy). FYI, since you're at Canada College right now, I'd suggest checking there first -- more academic libraries offer ILL services than public, and some academic libraries will cover the cost. - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:55 AM Subject: [h-cost] interlibrary loan > > > Does anyone (Kendra?) know where a good starter guide to using > interlibrary loan is online? I'd really like to try to find copies > of some of the out of print books on Worth, since I'm going to be > creating an 1880s dress in his style for class this year. > > .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 11:53:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15931 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:53:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Gt2i1023997; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Gt1ZW028028; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Gs5ZW027531 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m11.in-tch.com [216.166.191.11]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h02GafP19255 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:36:41 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E146E8F.3F0C0384@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlibrary loan References: <200301021555.h02FtLVt076713@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 09:53:35 -0700 Status: RO Not personally, but I can ask a friend (who's a librarian). Actually, I have a couple of friends who are librarians--comes in very handy, as they both happen to somewhat-share my interests in textiles and clothing and such. Usually, I just give one of them the specifics, and they try to hunt it down for me. Works really slick for some of the amazingly cool stuff that crosses this list, since I'm the only one of us that's on it! --sue, glad to have friends and acquaintances with a variety of interests! Heather Meadows wrote: > > Does anyone (Kendra?) know where a good starter guide to using > interlibrary loan is online? I'd really like to try to find copies > of some of the out of print books on Worth, since I'm going to be > creating an 1880s dress in his style for class this year. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 12:27:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16106 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:27:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02HT4i1027185; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02HT1ZW016151; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium.btinternet.com (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02HS9ZW015726 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:28:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-35-92.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.35.92] helo=dan) by einsteinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18U98a-0006nT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:28:08 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c2b284$e3f66c40$5c2323d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <006301c2b1d6$dde53920$ab0223d9@dan> <001301c2b27a$9daab5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:32:11 -0000 Status: RO Bjarne Many thanks for your help and encouragement; I do really, really wish you had photos of the red dress you made. I bought some red silk taffeta of about 4.5 meters at 1.50 meters wide , but it's in two pieces so I will have to work out whether I can stretch it to make a similar dress. My daughter, Bella, has a passion for red, and would love such a dress. I've bought ivory imperial taffeta for an 18th century dress, a little grubby but it should wash up fine Yes, I'm very lucky to have got so much fabric at such prices at Liberty's. I'm disappointed that they will no longer sell anything other than their own prints, so I'm grabbing it while I can. I've even got the cotton netting for lace making, which will save me a lot by comparison with the Lacis prices:-) best wishes Stevie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century > Hi Stevie. > Better late than never, just got back from work! > You only need 2 heights of the skirt + a little for seams and trail. This is > more than enough, remember the front skirt is almost without any pleats. > Then i would say about 2, 5 meter for the bodice and sleaves, this should be > more than plenty. > I did make such a dress once, only with a wired collar and stiff cuffs. I > made it in red taffeta. But it is so many years ago, and i dont have any > pictures, i am afraid. > But the cut of it is not that hard to make. > If you have any questions, please ask me. > Lucky you to have such an opportunity to go shopping at Libertys when they > have such fine sales. > Good luck! > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stevie Gamble" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 9:46 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Henrietta Maria query- 17th century > > > > Hi, > > Can anyone please tell me how much satin would have been used in > > creating the famous green pearl strewn gown of Henrietta Maria? > > See a copy of this at > > http://freespace.virgin.net/henriettas.restaurant/henriett.htm > > > > best wishes > > Stevie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 12:56:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16269 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:56:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Hw3i1029797; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Hw1ZW002147; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02Hv6ZW001588 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCvfsQhDiDLMR/A+u+qIknIIizOJoMNsWOw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMJPMZK6; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:56:19 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nicole's 'Costumed' ghost story Message-ID: <20030102.115803.-80707.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-7 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:58:03 -0600 Status: RO Hi Nicole, You can put me down on the list of people who have also had ghostly experiences, although since none of them were visual, there is absolutely no costume content. ;-) Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 13:10:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16323 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:10:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02IC2i1001193; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02IC0ZW009743; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02IBUZW009471 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003010218112500200kspv1e>; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:11:25 +0000 Message-ID: <020301c2b28a$db271dc0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <006301c2b1d6$dde53920$ab0223d9@dan> <001301c2b27a$9daab5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] OT shipping to finnland Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0600 Status: RO Ok, I know this is OT but I need a quick answer and you all are the best at this type of thing. How long does it take to get a shipment of anything to Finland these days? Is there a delay once it hits overseas? I am sending a glove making kit so it will contain doe kid, needles, thread, pattern and such. I do not know what the laws are over on that side about shipping leather from the states. Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 14:59:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16981 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:59:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02K15i1010396; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02K11ZW003373; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02K0FZW002988 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32faa.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.170]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D2C875EE41E for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:00:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:01:41 +0100 Status: RO Hi. I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has any artistic veins running in the family? My grandfather was a painter. He actually had it for a living painting paintings. In his old days he got rather rich of it. Well now adays his work is not apreciated very much, it is not that kind of stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. But i think he was a skillfull painter. If you go to http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 And scroll down the page almost to the bottom, there are two of his paintings at auction sale. Two of his sons got painters also and my mother had a lot of talent, but you know the story, when she got married she did not have the time for it................. I think i got my talent from him. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 15:05:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17020 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:05:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02K71i1010863; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02K70ZW006282; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21403.mail.yahoo.com (web21403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02K6WZW006025 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:06:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030102200628.71738.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.137] by web21403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:06:28 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:06:28 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Bjarne, When I click on the link I went to a page listing Kai Drews, with one very pretty landscape painting. Is this the correct artist? Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 15:08:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17044 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:08:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KA0i1011135; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KA0ZW007736; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02K9DZW007380 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:09:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32faa.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.170]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D7BEC5EE1D1 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:09:12 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c2b29b$06364490$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20030102.115803.-80707.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nicole's 'Costumed' ghost story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:10:41 +0100 Status: RO This is a little bit costume related. :-) I heard footsteps at Castle Selsoe some years ago. It was at midnight in the autumn. I could hear that the shoes was made of wood. Not those kind of wooden shoes we use these days, but an elegant shoe, with wooden lasts. But there was nothing to see anywhere! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nicole's 'Costumed' ghost story > Hi Nicole, > > You can put me down on the list of people who have also had ghostly > experiences, although since none of them were visual, there is absolutely > no costume content. ;-) > > > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 15:09:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17048 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:09:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KB1i1011222; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KB1ZW008271; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21206.mail.yahoo.com (web21206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02KAsZW008218 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:10:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030102201053.46572.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.252.64.5] by web21206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:10:53 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:10:53 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > My grandfather was a painter. ... > it is not that kind of > stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. > http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 > And scroll down the page almost to the bottom, there > are two of his paintings at auction sale. I can only see one painting: but that one: wow! As a modern person, no, I don't want to hang it on my wall. But I did just set it as my wallpaper :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 15:11:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17057 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:11:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KD5i1011392; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:13:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KD2ZW009328; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KCpZW009240 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:12:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32faa.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.170]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9170B5EEA3A for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:12:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002e01c2b29b$881815b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20030102200628.71738.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:14:19 +0100 Status: RO Hi. Yes, Kai Drews was my grandfather. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins > Bjarne, > > When I click on the link I went to a page listing Kai > Drews, with one very pretty landscape painting. Is > this the correct artist? > > Angharat > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 15:15:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17070 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:15:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KH3i1011685; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KH3ZW011385; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KGiZW011062 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:16:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003010220163900100es82ue>; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:16:39 +0000 Message-ID: <02cd01c2b29c$5a00cf40$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:20:03 -0600 Status: RO On my father's side, I come from a long line of painters and calligraphers, Vecchio's. My father is a wiz at painting and I am still using my Grandfather's father's scribal nibs. On my mother side, I come from a long line of seamstresses and tailors, Esquivel-Lopez-Villarreal-Arrevalo. My mother has that enviable talent of looking at something for 5 minutes, going home and reproducing it all in one day. It takes me a week to do that. :( Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 2:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins > Hi. > I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has any > artistic veins running in the family? > > My grandfather was a painter. He actually had it for a living painting > paintings. In his old days he got rather rich of it. > Well now adays his work is not apreciated very much, it is not that kind of > stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. > But i think he was a skillfull painter. > If you go to > http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 > And scroll down the page almost to the bottom, there are two of his > paintings at auction sale. > Two of his sons got painters also and my mother had a lot of talent, but you > know the story, when she got married she did not have the time for > it................. > I think i got my talent from him. > > Bjarne > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 15:36:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17143 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:36:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Kc5i1013245; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Kc1QI022040; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02KbrQI021920 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:37:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4699111E59 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:37:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip120.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.120]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 39CE3112414 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:37:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <019001c2b29e$c6c32590$78614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:37:30 -0500 Status: RO My dad can draw and paint beautifully. My mom could sew ANYTHING. The woman was a genius with a sewing machine. So, I guess I come by it honestly. But of all three of us girls, I'm the only one who does anything in the way of sewing or any other art forms. Neither one of my sisters does anything like that. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins > Hi. > I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has any > artistic veins running in the family? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 16:03:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17258 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:03:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02L52i1015190; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02L51QI005682; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21403.mail.yahoo.com (web21403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02L4HQI005264 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:04:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030102210416.82296.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.137] by web21403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:04:16 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002e01c2b29b$881815b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:04:16 -0800 (PST) Status: RO In that case Bjarne, it is yet again proven that I do not have "modern" tastes, as I like it and would hang something like that up in my home, or at work. As for my family and artistic tendencies, Mother's side: one cousin makes sewn paper models of historical monuments like the Taj Mahal in under 1 foot sizes and participates in theatre, his brother and wife are starting a business of writing and illustrating children's stories, an aunt paints landscapes and animal portraits in acrylics, lots of sewing, needlework and crocheting, and one other aunt, who painted ceramics. On my Father's side: Dad did woodburning, leathertooling, knot/braid making,punchneedle embroidery and Black powder era costuming,his elder brother was in movies and younger brother is a photographer and makes jewelry, my grandmother painted ceramics and made porcelain dolls and crochets, beyond them, I know there was a photographer and not much else, we don't know a lot about that side of the family because of adoptions and burned records. My brothers are all computer programmers, very tidy organized minds. My mother taught me the "ladylike" skills, but wasn't very creative on her own, other than being able to alter the Big 3 patterns to fit her family better. She follows patterns exclusively, even to making baby blankets. Other than Kyle, the theatrical minded, the families support the drive to make costumes, do research and my drawings, but don't understand the "need" to make them. *grin* The subjects confuse most of them, but they appreciate the work. angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 16:40:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17448 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:40:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Lg1i1018301; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Lg0QI024733; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02LfUQI024449 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:41:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWrbfYR3UqpB5OO3BPkU4qiZ5nM0v9iio4g=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMJ4HA2F; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:40:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Message-ID: <20030102.164048.-525855.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,7-9 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:40:47 -0500 Status: RO Actually, that is exactly the kind of paintings I would love to have on my wall. He did beautiful work as does his grandson. My family is mostly all artistic except for me. Somehow, it skipped over me. However, none of my family has anything up for sale in an auction anywhere. They weren't that good, though my mother could have been if she had continued her studies instead of (you guessed it) getting married. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 16:42:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17478 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:42:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Li2i1018466; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Li1QI025650; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02Lh7QI025192 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:43:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"dBh/I51fsHv9NCoYYJioTJS4v59FUE0Bn7qIOTUiDFK2Y2C/nlMkkw=="> Received: (from spynnere@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMJ4LDCH; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:42:37 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Message-ID: <20030102.164117.108.0.spynnere@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-9,17-18,22-23,28-29 From: spynnere@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:41:16 -0500 Status: RO On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:01:41 +0100 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Hi. > I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who > has any > artistic veins running in the family? > > My grandfather was a painter. My great grandmother painted as a hobby until she married my great grandfather, a parson. He felt that painting was *not* a fittin' hobby for the parson's wife, so she gave it up forthwith. When I was very small, I had a yellow quilt she made--it had pale yellow accents, and a huge (to my 5 year old eyes) white field with an embroidered farm scene in gold. One of my favourite pastimes was to pick apart the french knots with my teeth--and *Yes*, I kick myself around the house still at the thought of what I did! Even as a slightly older child, I could recognize the artistry she put into the battered remains of a rag doll my great grandmother made for my mother--the doll's eyes looked like they had been painted with the embroidery cotton. My great grandfather left a diary he kept when he went to the California gold fields, from which document I gathered he was something of a prig; and while I have nothing but two paintings my great grandmother did, I like to imagine a secret streak of rebellion hidden behind her outward obedience to her husband! Elizabeth ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 17:19:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17727 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:19:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02ML2i1022499; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02ML0QI016158; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02MKTQI015838 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:20:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp235099pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.183.28]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8300MFEY1ZZY@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:20:24 -0500 (EST) From: Liz / Cozit Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlibrary loan To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3E14BB30.7060805@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 References: <20030102161800.10200.390.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:20:32 -0500 Status: RO Generally speaking, as far as requesting the books goes, check with your library (different libraries work different ways). *G* Something I've got to do shortly myself, as Maryland now has an statewide interlibrary loan system I can request books from over the web to be picked up at my library... but I don't know the routine for books from elsewhere anymore because of the change. As far as finding books to request, I find them all over the web, and on sites like Powells and Amazon. Not every book is out there to be borrowed... but if it is, and it's available to you, your librarian should be able to help you out (the tale end of the borrowing is through them, so they've the last say on "how to") -Liz >From: Heather Meadows > > >Does anyone (Kendra?) know where a good starter guide to using >interlibrary loan is online? I'd really like to try to find copies >of some of the out of print books on Worth, since I'm going to be >creating an 1880s dress in his style for class this year. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 17:50:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17873 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:50:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Mq2i1024715; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Mq1QI001635; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02MpXQI001330 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:51:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030102225127.5802.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:51:27 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:51:27 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO It's a very skilled painting, one where I feel almst drawn into, the perfect setting for a fantasy story where the 21st c person is sucked into the lifelike painting and finds her/himself in the landscape. :-) On the artistic family question: nope, none that I know of. My aunt (dad's sister) painted and drew a little, but not very wonderful. My aunt (mum's sister) did lots of dried flower arrangements and stuff, and my mum is sewing very skillfully, but always to the letter after a pattern. I would not call any of the above particularly artistic. There is no talent I have ever heard of anywhere in the family. Oh well :-)))) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 17:51:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17878 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:51:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02MlBi1024371; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:47:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Ml0QI028832; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02Mk4QI028333 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.251]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H83005G3Z8NSD@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:46:01 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins In-reply-to: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030102140800.0511b620@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:36:34 -0800 Status: RO >I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has any >artistic veins running in the family? My mother's parents were both musical (guitar, banjo, piano, singing), and that grandfather and his mother-in-law dabbled in furniture making, wood carving, etching, painting, and a few other artsy things. That grandfather knew Charles M. Russell, the 'other' cowboy painter. That grandmother did weaving. From that side of the family I inherited two antique boxes of watercolour paints, original owner unknown, and all the leftover weaving thread, but not the spinning wheel, the two table looms, nor the White treadle sewing machine. OCC - I also inherited my grandfather's two canes, three boxes of antique lace, collars, and one (unused?) petticoat flounce, somebody's hand-embroidered eyelet shift from like the 1850s, a few crochet hooks, bodkins, and stilettos, and a big box of buttons. Of my mother's siblings, Aunt Eleanor (1st child) had rheumatic fever, and did all kinds of embroidery instead of outdoorsy things (I inherited a few pieces). Aunt Eileen (2nd) crocheted tablecloths. (I named my two kids after these aunts.) Uncle Larry (3rd) wasn't very artistic, but one of his daughters was. Uncle John Barrows (4th) was a famous French Horn player in the 1950s, and taught at the U of Wisconsin, among other things. My mother (5th) knits, sews, needlepoints Oriental rugs, and used to do a linoleum block Xmas card every year. On my father's side, of my grandparents, two sets of aunts/uncles, 10 cousins, and two half-siblings, there is no artistic streak whatsoever, nor any great appreciation of the arts. >My grandfather was a painter. He actually had it for a living painting >paintings. In his old days he got rather rich of it. >Well now adays his work is not apreciated very much, it is not that kind of >stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. >But i think he was a skillfull painter. >If you go to >http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 I guess I'm just not a modern person ;) because I like it just fine. It reminds me of some of the late-1800s-early-1900s paintings that were done in California, and now get lumped under the name of 'Craftsman'. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 18:12:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17986 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:12:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02NE1i1026666; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02NE0QI012732; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02NDlQI012607 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A6511389B for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:13:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip120.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.120]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B50BE113296 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:13:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <048401c2b2b4$93c71370$78614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20030102140800.0511b620@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:13:30 -0500 Status: RO . > >But i think he was a skillfull painter. > >If you go to > >http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 Guess I'm not modern either, because I think it's beautiful! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 18:20:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18007 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:20:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02NM2i1027167; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02NM1QI016263; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21309.mail.yahoo.com (web21309.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.254]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h02NLVQI016065 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:21:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030102232130.16641.qmail@web21309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.25.104.253] by web21309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:21:30 PST From: kate To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: off topic artistic veins Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: ailith@neo.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:21:30 -0800 (PST) Status: RO What a lovely landscape! > Hi. > I just wondered, are there any of you folks with > lots of talents who has any > artistic veins running in the family? As to artistic talents running in my family--I have been very blessed with an abundance of skills from both sides of my family. On my mother's side there was a great-aunt who painted--mostly landscapes. On my father's side, my grandmother loved textiles of all kinds. She was able to spin and did weave some of her own fabrics (but stopped long before I was born); she sewed well, quilted, embroidered and crocheted lace. I used to be a more-than-passable landscape artist, but I rarely do landscapes now; trompe l'oeil illumination (it's called "squashed bug" around here) is what interests me at this point in time. I also have sewed professionally (mostly wedding gowns and prom dresses). My interest is now focused on 16th century Italian clothing. I embroider (mostly blackwork these days) and used to make crocheted lace shawls. My great-aunt's work used to be exhibited in a museum here in Ohio, but I'm not sure if it's still there or not. kate __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 19:14:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18373 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:14:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h030G6i1000667; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h030G1QI009575; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h030FNQI009340 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:15:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fae.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.174]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 54A054804CD for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:15:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <010d01c2b2bd$6cedc4c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <006301c2b1d6$dde53920$ab0223d9@dan> <001301c2b27a$9daab5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <020301c2b28a$db271dc0$31baee0c@c59303a> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT shipping to finnland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:16:56 +0100 Status: RO Hello. I would say it would take as long as it takes to Denmark. Finland is also a member of the EU. When i get parcels from the USA, they usually takes about 8 days, this is for air mail. But then the parcels goes to the custom to be examined. You have to pay extra taxes for some parcels from USA and then it could take a week more. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "chiara" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:14 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT shipping to finnland > Ok, I know this is OT but I need a quick answer and you all are the best at > this type of thing. > > How long does it take to get a shipment of anything to Finland these days? > Is there a delay once it hits overseas? > > I am sending a glove making kit so it will contain doe kid, needles, thread, > pattern and such. I do not know what the laws are over on that side about > shipping leather from the states. > > Sincerely, > Chiara > Ansteorra, Steppes > Not all ermine spots are created equally > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 19:33:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18452 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:33:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h030Z2i1001843; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h030Z1QI016592; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f116.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h030YIQI016297 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:33:03 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:33:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jan 2003 00:33:03.0348 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD29A340:01C2B2BF] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:33:03 -0800 Status: RO I think the vast majority of us would like to Know. My family's ghost story is very modern and yucky, but I love historical ghosts. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 19:34:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18458 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:34:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h030a1i1001912; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h030a0QI016953; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h030ZsQI016886 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:35:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003010300354800200t6nm2e>; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:35:49 +0000 Message-ID: <3E14DB0A.4090706@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:36:26 -0800 Status: RO My dad sang and was a photographer, his father played fiddle and was also a photographer. My great grand pa and at least one of his brothers played fiddle also. I have the great uncle's fiddle. My father's mom painted, sketched, potted, and sewed. My mom sews, sketches, builds furniture, knits, used to weave - but I have the loom now. My mother's mom sewed and did leatherwork. My mother's father invented some punch system for mass producing fenders for cars. Or something like that. So. Creative grandparents. My cousins are generally creative also. Artists, writers, architects. Nice I fit in to my family! liz Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi. >I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has any >artistic veins running in the family? > >My grandfather was a painter. He actually had it for a living painting >paintings. In his old days he got rather rich of it. >Well now adays his work is not apreciated very much, it is not that kind of >stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. >But i think he was a skillfull painter. >If you go to >http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 >And scroll down the page almost to the bottom, there are two of his >paintings at auction sale. >Two of his sons got painters also and my mother had a lot of talent, but you >know the story, when she got married she did not have the time for >it................. >I think i got my talent from him. > >Bjarne > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 20:03:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18705 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:03:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03152i1003486; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03151QI026480; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f59.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0314XQI026281 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:04:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:59:38 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:59:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jan 2003 00:59:38.0036 (UTC) FILETIME=[63ABB740:01C2B2C3] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:59:37 -0800 Status: RO > >Hi. >I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has >any >artistic veins running in the family? My Grandmother was very creative in traditional ways. Quilting, embroidery, sewing, etc.. My mother cooks, sews, paints in watercolor and oil, and comes up with crafts for her sunday school classes all the time. It took three of us girls to make one of my mom, I sew like a madwoman, Amy cooks all sorts of wonderful things, and Holly does drawings and paintings that hang in Mom's house and are fantastic. I'm not limited to sewing although it has always been my truest gift. I also love to do beadweaving, artsy craftsy projects galore, and I'm forever just absorbing new interests all the time. I find however that I stink in the drawing or painting depts. ;) They must be for other sisters. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 20:21:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18745 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:21:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h031N1i1004524; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h031N0QI002417; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f28.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h031MZQI002288 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:22:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:22:30 -0800 Received: from 65.70.197.4 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:22:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.70.197.4] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jan 2003 01:22:30.0372 (UTC) FILETIME=[95A59240:01C2B2C6] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:22:30 +0000 Status: RO Lovely painting - it reminds me of my great-grandfather's paintings that are hanging in my mother's house. (Her father's father) As for artistic families - I don't know much about my father's side other than him, but I have a beautiful wooden lamp that he made. It's over 50 years old, and works perfectly. On my mother's side I am surrounded by creative types over several generations. Interior designers, Floral designers, seamstresses, tailors, even a formally trained Chef. (And one Veterinarian/U.S. Army Colonel.) Mary/Katerine >Hi. >I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has >any >artistic veins running in the family? > >My grandfather was a painter. He actually had it for a living painting >paintings. In his old days he got rather rich of it. >Well now adays his work is not apreciated very much, it is not that kind of >stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. >But i think he was a skillfull painter. >If you go to >http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 >And scroll down the page almost to the bottom, there are two of his >paintings at auction sale. >Two of his sons got painters also and my mother had a lot of talent, but >you >know the story, when she got married she did not have the time for >it................. >I think i got my talent from him. > >Bjarne > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 21:51:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19297 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:51:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h032r3i1008941; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h032r1QI029746; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd4mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h032q6QI029414 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:52:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr4so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.107]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8400D7VAMR87@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:52:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml4so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.148]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H84009LDAMRF5@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:52:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from orb.shaw.ca (h24-80-194-235.gv.shawcable.net [24.80.194.235]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8400301AMQSZ@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:52:03 -0700 (MST) From: kris Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins In-reply-to: <20030102.164117.108.0.spynnere@juno.com> X-Sender: ionization@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030102184733.00b54b30@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 18:52:08 -0800 Status: RO *grin* My family is very musical. Mom always sang to me and my brother before we went to bed. Dad is an amazing baritone, as is my brother. I'm a trained mezzo. Me and my brother also play 3 instruments each. err.. four... or more. ack! We're a band unto ourselves, it seems. As for fine art, me and my bro get our talents from dad. He's an amazing artist - he always drew pictures to go along with the poetry in our morning notes. My brother is trying to get into Emily Carr, studying drawing, and I've got 1st year university art, from my high school. I think that only my brother has the passion for it to succeed, though. Some of the things he does are amazing. Geiger-inspired, I suppose, although he does some animations and still-lifes as well. kris most of the drawing I do is designing costumes and clothes.. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 21:58:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19319 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:58:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03302i1009213; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03301QI001975; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h032wxQI001622 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17905 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 02:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO inetone.net) (206.105.173.98) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 02:58:58 -0000 Message-ID: <3E14FC8D.CA905694@inetone.net> From: Dhannti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins References: <20030102200628.71738.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com> <002e01c2b29b$881815b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:59:25 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi. > Yes, Kai Drews was my grandfather. It is a stunning painting. I would love to own art of that quality. My mom was a painter, photographer, did lectures on ,of all things, sea shells and floral arrangments. She was a life time national floral show judge hewre in the U.S. If I have any talent it came from her. Di _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 22:57:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19512 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:57:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h033x3i1011664; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h033x0QI018399; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h033wcQI018315 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:58:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AA6DEE1B0270; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:58:37 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AA6DC520110; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:58:37 -0600 Message-ID: <009101c2b2dc$733caa20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:58:59 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne, Thank you for such a wonderful topic! Your grandfather's work is inspiring just like your work. It is wonderful to here everyone's background on the list. I live in a world of art and respecting it. I think I was born this way. I majored in college with how many art fields I could be in. I started out in architural drawing, changed to painting, then fashion, home ec. ed., then finally fashion & costume. You all didn't know that I dabble in painting any thing from on the computer to painting a real house. I also worked for 5 years in landscaping. I almost went back to college for landscaping instead of fashion. I decided that I didn't like the hot months of July and August. My mom was a very skilled seamstress and a perfectionist. If my stitches we not 100% correct, I had to rip them all out with a pin one stitch at a time... we didn't own a seam ripper. My mother was grand at crotchet. I wish I had some of her work. Mom doesn't talk much about her family's talents since she grew up in the depression, everyone was poor and just tried to get by. My paternal grandmother was a spinner and weaver in the Carolina textile mills. I have documented her working in them on the 1910 census. My Great Aunt wrote down a story about how the women worked in different shifts at the mills and cared for one another's children while the other women worked. In the same section of the country, one of my Aunt's was a big shot hair stylist and received a number of awards from the state organization. She also held a number of offices within the organization. All my sisters are fashion lovers but my youngest sister is the only one besides me who has artistic talents. She has worked as a markup artist for a couple of pageantry magazines and the Miss America pageant. She also started out in school for architural drawing. Now she is a computer teacher in elementary school. My husband is a drummer and majored in film in college. His mother was a wonderful seamstress and a professional hair stylist. His father was a carpenter and made wonderful things from wood. Hubby also has a sister who is an outstanding painter and artist in several mediums. Putting these two families together generated a houseful of artistic kids. All of my kids play an instrument, except Katie. My oldest son could play any instrument but has settled down to drums (thank God they are at his house now). My #2 son plays drums and guitar. He does play guitar professionally at local coffee houses. We call him the strolling minstrel, he would walk around the house after midnight playing his guitar. He also creates all kinds of artistic creations and sells them at local shops. He has been commissioned several times for his paintings. #2 says he wants to fake his death so we could sell his work for a higher price. Amazing story about this child... he really disliked high school and had poor grades in everything but music and art subjects. He finished with a 1.7 GPA. We kept telling him that he would *never* get into college with that GPA. He was accepted to the first school that he did a portfolio showing. The professor told me, "Art students usually do not have a good high school GPA. They get into college with their talent." #3 son played saxophone for years. #4 is my theater techie that I told you all about. He also played trumpet. #5 son... well we love Sam... just waiting for the butterfly to come out of his cocoon. Wait! He did play drums. (thank God again, that the drums are no longer in our house). Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 2 23:32:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19607 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:32:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h034Y2i1013224; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h034Y1QI028381; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h034XjQI028306 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:33:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m194.in-tch.com [216.166.191.194]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h034HMP02815 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:17:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:34:16 -0700 Status: RO Uhm, yeah...kinda-sorta, but in bits and pieces. My mom minored in art in college--she did mostly painting (watercolors and oils). Loathed any sort of sewing, though, or anything that was more process than goal-oriented. HER father's family were apparently weavers from way back, although Grandfather was actually some sort of specialist engineer, who taught college physics in the evenings. Bless the man, he must have had "gotta be busy" hands, like mine, because he did woodworking (I have one of his bowls), and a LOT of weaving--household furnishings, AFAIK, but the pieces I have are done in wool, cotton, linen, and something artificial-ish (rayon, maybe?). I got to see his loom once, when I was very young. It was big enough to weave bedspreads on! I very, very much regret never really knowing him (they lived 2000 miles away, on the other side of the US), because my mom always said he and I would have understood each other! His wife, Grace, whom I apparently resemble physically, was "crafty" in some minor way--I have a metal tray she painted with some technique that reminds me of tole painting. On my dad's side, my great-grandma, Baba, knitted and crocheted into her 90s. Her husband, Arthur Gibson Hull, was apparently quite the painter--I have one of his oils in my living room. And I've got some photos of some murals he did in the 1930s, during some sort of New Deal program for supporting artists--the paintings are in a school in Massachusetts, IIRC, and depict the travels of Christopher Columbus. If I ever get the chance, I want to scan the photos, and put them up somewhere on a website--they're a very interesting 1930s look at a Renaissance theme. Of all the cousins, I seem to be about the only one with any craft/art impulses, outside of my cousin Cynthia, who inherited this amazing talent from her father (not related to me by blood). I seemed to have gotten the craft/patient/fine-detail strain, and not the painterly strain, though, as I can hardly draw a good circle using a compass! I'm also a pretty good example of somebody inheriting the quirk, rather than learning it as part of my growing-up environment, as all of my cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. are 2000+ miles away. --sue P.S. Bjarne, I love your grandfather's painting...I think you're right about where you get your amazing talent! Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi. > I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has any > artistic veins running in the family? > > My grandfather was a painter. He actually had it for a living painting > paintings. In his old days he got rather rich of it. > Well now adays his work is not apreciated very much, it is not that kind of > stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. > But i think he was a skillfull painter. > If you go to > http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 > And scroll down the page almost to the bottom, there are two of his > paintings at auction sale. > Two of his sons got painters also and my mother had a lot of talent, but you > know the story, when she got married she did not have the time for > it................. > I think i got my talent from him. > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 02:42:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27484 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:42:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037iQi1019581; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:44:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037iJQI015185; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from x11.quik.com (x11.quik.com [216.176.28.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h034okQI002787 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:50:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from downstairs (ip68-10-170-42.hr.hr.cox.net [68.10.170.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by x11.quik.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h034oj0o018611 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:50:45 -0800 From: "Anne Moeller" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Message-ID: <001901c2b2e4$59a26de0$0200a8c0@hr.cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:55:33 -0500 Status: RO Well, I for one think the painting is lovely. I especially like his rendition of the light rays. Of course, art styles seem to go through cycles. What is not popular today can be hugely popular several years down the road. Anne (whose uncle is a professional portrait painter and grandmother was an amateur portrait painter) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:02 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Hi. I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has any artistic veins running in the family? My grandfather was a painter. He actually had it for a living painting paintings. In his old days he got rather rich of it. Well now adays his work is not apreciated very much, it is not that kind of stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. But i think he was a skillfull painter. If you go to http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 And scroll down the page almost to the bottom, there are two of his paintings at auction sale. Two of his sons got painters also and my mother had a lot of talent, but you know the story, when she got married she did not have the time for it................. I think i got my talent from him. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 02:43:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27523 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:43:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037iki1019598; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:44:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037ikQI015277; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:44:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h034qAQI003180 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:52:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:48:34 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030102225059.009ffec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlibrary loan In-Reply-To: <200301021555.h02FtLVt076713@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:55:08 -0600 Status: RO Heather, Email me the list of the books and I can look them up on OCLC (a major ILL network available to libraries). If it's in there, I can email you with the info, then you take it to your local library and request it. Sheryl Nance-Durst [Who loves being a librarian - it supports her book habit] At 07:55 AM 1/2/03 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone (Kendra?) know where a good starter guide to using >interlibrary loan is online? I'd really like to try to find copies >of some of the out of print books on Worth, since I'm going to be >creating an 1880s dress in his style for class this year. > >.heather. > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 02:44:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27807 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:44:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037kCi1019660; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037kAQI015588; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:46:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail6.kc.rr.com (fe6.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h034xsQI005248 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:59:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail6.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:58:09 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030102230107.009fe240@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins In-Reply-To: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:02:49 -0600 Status: RO I have an aunt who sold her paintings for many years. I still have a couple of her landscapes in my hallway. And I love you grandfather's painting! Sheryl Nance-Durst At 09:01 PM 1/2/03 +0100, you wrote: >Hi. >I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has any >artistic veins running in the family? > >My grandfather was a painter. He actually had it for a living painting >paintings. In his old days he got rather rich of it. >Well now adays his work is not apreciated very much, it is not that kind of >stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. >But i think he was a skillfull painter. >If you go to >http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 >And scroll down the page almost to the bottom, there are two of his >paintings at auction sale. >Two of his sons got painters also and my mother had a lot of talent, but you >know the story, when she got married she did not have the time for >it................. >I think i got my talent from him. > >Bjarne > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 02:44:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27821 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:44:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037kQi1019680; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:46:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037kPQI015682; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:46:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h035BgQI008590 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:11:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 3617 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 05:11:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.242.64]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 3 Jan 2003 05:11:41 -0000 Message-ID: <004301c2b2e6$98ff8520$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> Subject: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:11:39 -0500 Status: RO I spent years trying to find my "artistic niche". . . I first tried sketching and painting like my great-grandmother (she was vastly prolific, but didn't sell any that I know of, they are all somewhere in the family). Wherever she went on vacation, she came home with paintings. She even went so far as to walk up to the door of Monticello in Virginia to ask permission to paint-- from the BACK, standing in a cow pasture as she worked. It took me 15 years to find fabric was my medium. Then I started researching the family tree and found out that my paternal relations (both male and female) were in textiles for the past 300 years (mom and dad were divorced, I didn't know my grandfather had brothers until he after he died). >From loom operators, both power and manual, to dyers and spinners. Nevermind the tailors/seamstresses going back generations. . . . If only I had listened to my genes 15 years earlier. OK, try tried to tell me when I was 5, when I would wrap any scrap of fabric around my dolls with safety pins to hold it on. . . . that was when Mom taught me to use a needle and thread. (Mom can sew, mostly draperies and simple clothing-- so sue me, simple is anything less than couture. . . But she knits like a dream.) So, 13 years after that, I got into re-enactment. . . which lead to going into business. It's all history from there. Lyn Greaves BTW-- anyone know where I can get a doily pattern that is KNIT not crochet? Mom did some 30 years ago, but she doesn't remember where the patterns are. .. . and I can't crochet to save my life. > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > Hi. > > I just wondered, are there any of you folks with lots of talents who has any > > artistic veins running in the family? > > > > My grandfather was a painter. He actually had it for a living painting > > paintings. In his old days he got rather rich of it. > > Well now adays his work is not apreciated very much, it is not that kind of > > stuff modern people want to hang on their walls. > > But i think he was a skillfull painter. > > If you go to > > http://www.lauritz.com/s_j/4.asp?ItemID=92274 > > And scroll down the page almost to the bottom, there are two of his > > paintings at auction sale. > > Two of his sons got painters also and my mother had a lot of talent, but you > > know the story, when she got married she did not have the time for > > it................. > > I think i got my talent from him. > > > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 02:45:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27901 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:45:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037kei1019704; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037keQI015730; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h035WgQI013683 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:32:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m60.in-tch.com [216.166.191.60]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h035GLP23552 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:16:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E15209A.A947C589@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:33:14 -0700 Status: RO And in more ways than one! It never occured to me, until I had one of those "well, duh!" moments, looking at the link he provided for his grandfather's painting, that maybe I could find _my_ great grandfather's work online. Gawd bless Google, 'cuz there he is! It turns out that my memory is pretty faulty--the murals are located in Norwalk, CT, and are part of a Depression-era collection of paintings for a number of public buildings in Norwalk. And the subject was Marco Polo. (geez, but this is embarassing!) However, here's the link to the first painting in the series.... http://www.norwalktransit.com/murals36.htm It links to the others that they have webbed. Interesting costume interpretations are especially noticeable in the one titled "Venice, the musicians." This is _so_ cool! --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 02:46:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28130 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:46:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037m7i1019786; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037m6QI016226; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0361aQI020647 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:01:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp205.directcon.net [206.170.184.205]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0361QLn023976; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:01:27 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030102220523.00b97830@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins In-Reply-To: <3E14DB0A.4090706@fenris.net> References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:05:23 -0800 Status: RO Yes, I grew up in an artistic home. My father painted when I was young, then went back to his first love of art photography. My mother painted and did mosaics, as well as sewing and doing needlework. She's also musically gifted, with perfect pitch and a phenomenal ear, but tragically was pushed too much as a child and loathes playing the piano to this day. My brother and sister both inherited my mother's ear. My brother is one of those annoying people who can play any instrument he picks up, and he also draws, paints, makes prints, and does silversmithing. My sister sings and plays the piano professionally, and draws well. I myself am thought to have some skill with a needle, and I write and do computer illustrating as part of my pattern business. I hope to write a couple of costume history books eventually, as well. also love to sing, do it all the time, while doing housework and driving, and am lucky enough to have a good voice, although I've never been able to play any but the simplest of instruments. I'm trying to carry this on with my children, by sending them to a school where the arts are emphasized, and where every child learns handwork like knitting, chrocheting, and sewing. We also do it at home, by having shelves full of craft and art supplies available to them, and having family singing in the car instead of Game Boy battles and radios. I firmly believe that everyone is born creative, it's just that some of us were lucky enough to stay that way, instead of being discouraged from it. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 02:47:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28268 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:47:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037msi1019835; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:48:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037mrQI016467; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:48:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h036pYQI003034 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:51:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <20030103065128001000bc8je>; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:51:28 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030102222521.00a7b050@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins In-Reply-To: <3E14FC8D.CA905694@inetone.net> References: <20030102200628.71738.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com> <002e01c2b29b$881815b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:41:12 -0800 Status: RO Amazing, you all come from such talented families. My family has been pretty much nothing but engineers for as long as I can trace. I joke about rocket science being the family profession because my children are the third generation that are headed that way. I am the only one with any artistic bent. They have always just patted me on the head and accepted me for my inexplicable interests. Professionally, I am a geologist and even that is a mystery to most of them because they are all engineers or computer scientists. Of course, if they need an interesting dress for a special occasion, they appreciate me then. At the same time, I am not so sure that my costuming is that far removed from engineering. I can conceptualize a look, determine in my mind what it should consist of and then make a flat pattern for it without ever drawing it out on paper and have it work perfectly. That came in very handy when I was doing the costumes for Alice in Wonderland which were a lot of fantasy costumes. It is a lot less handy when it comes to historical costume because it is almost impossible for me to follow a pattern or do something "right". I always have a better idea. And, it seems that my children, despite my daughter's obsession with dance, are following the example of my family rather than my own. I seem to be the cuckoo artist in a nest of engineers. Maryann At 09:59 PM 1/2/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > Hi. > > Yes, Kai Drews was my grandfather. > >It is a stunning painting. I would love to own art of that quality. > >My mom was a painter, photographer, did lectures on ,of all things, sea >shells and floral arrangments. She was a life time national floral show >judge hewre in the U.S. If I have any talent it came from her. > > >Di >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 02:58:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA30347 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:58:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03802i1020143; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03801QI018670; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h037xTQI018550 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:59:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A2E189A010E; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:59:29 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A2E26B800E0; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:59:30 -0600 Message-ID: <012201c2b2fe$1296b860$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> <004301c2b2e6$98ff8520$01fea8c0@livingroom> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:59:41 -0500 Status: RO Lyn, You mentioned you had problems with crocheting. May I ask... Are you left handed? I tried to crochet for years. I was so frustrated. Then I discovered I was trying to learn from my mother who is right handed. I discovered the problem when standing in from of a mirror. I gave up on crocheting then. I really love the art... so I buy it when I go to antique shows. I have crocheted dollies all over my house! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 03:04:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA31434 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:04:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03863i1020263; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03861QI019803; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0385qQI019760 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:05:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20089 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 08:05:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.242.64]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 3 Jan 2003 08:05:51 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01c2b2fe$ed1d8f90$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> <004301c2b2e6$98ff8520$01fea8c0@livingroom> <012201c2b2fe$1296b860$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:05:48 -0500 Status: RO Nope, for some reason, I just can't get the hang of the loops and stitches. Give me any knitting pattern- cables or other complicated stuff-- and I can get the pattern in my head after about 2 repeats. I make up sock patterns on the fly. Crochet- nothing sticks. I had a friend try to teach me, my mother, my grandmother-- I end up with this nice single row of chain stitch no matter what I do. I figure I have to have at least one stumbling block- I seem to pick up anything else that uses a needle fairly easily. But thanks for the thought. Lyn Greaves ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 2:59 AM Subject: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting > Lyn, > > You mentioned you had problems with crocheting. May I ask... Are you left > handed? I tried to crochet for years. I was so frustrated. Then I > discovered I was trying to learn from my mother who is right handed. I > discovered the problem when standing in from of a mirror. I gave up on > crocheting then. I really love the art... so I buy it when I go to antique > shows. I have crocheted dollies all over my house! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 03:11:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA32746 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:11:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038D1i1020471; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038D0QI021524; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038CjQI021472 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:12:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A5FCC9C010E; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 02:12:44 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A5FD15D10146; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 02:12:45 -0600 Message-ID: <012701c2b2ff$eb427180$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <3E15209A.A947C589@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:12:54 -0500 Status: RO Oh, Sue... you have taken my heart!!! I love murals!!!!! This is wonderful that you found your grandfather's work online. Looking at it, I remembered where I found my love for art. When I was in 4th and 5th grade I went to school located in what was an old high school. The auditorium was filled with murals from a locally famous artist named Walter Anderson. http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org/ The murals were the founding of the Gulf Coastal Region of Mississippi and Alabama. When we had assemblies in the auditorium, I would stare at the ceiling and daydream in the paintings. When I was in high school, we took a field trip to the Anderson family business. Mr. Anderson had passed at that time, but his wife gave us a tour of their small home and told us stories of Mr. Anderson rowing out to the Gulf Coast islands to paint. I could just imagine him rowing in a little boat out to the islands with paint and canvas. The irony of it all... is that his paintings inspired me at such a young age. And I grew up to marry one of the descendants of the Coastal founders in the Anderson mural. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 03:18:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01537 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:18:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038K2i1020623; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038K1QI022792; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038JBQI022620 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038Limm011332 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:21:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3E1547D9.6030802@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! References: <3E15209A.A947C589@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:20:41 -0800 Status: RO To Sue and Bjarne- Bjarne, your grandfather's painting is so serene and restful, beautiful colors in the sun rays, I would have loved to see him work the paints!! Sue, these murals are masterpieces!!! The composition and detail is amazing, and the colors are incredible!!! Thanks to both of you for sharing!!! Theresa Eacker Sue Clemenger wrote: > And in more ways than one! > It never occured to me, until I had one of those "well, duh!" moments, > looking at the link he provided for his grandfather's painting, that > maybe I could find _my_ great grandfather's work online. > Gawd bless Google, 'cuz there he is! > It turns out that my memory is pretty faulty--the murals are located in > Norwalk, CT, and are part of a Depression-era collection of paintings > for a number of public buildings in Norwalk. And the subject was Marco > Polo. (geez, but this is embarassing!) > However, here's the link to the first painting in the series.... > http://www.norwalktransit.com/murals36.htm > It links to the others that they have webbed. Interesting costume > interpretations are especially noticeable in the one titled "Venice, the > musicians." > This is _so_ cool! > --sue > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 03:23:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02374 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:23:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038P2i1020727; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038P1QI023621; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038OFQI023509 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:24:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A8AE229D00C6; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 02:24:14 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A8B06D900E0; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 02:24:16 -0600 Message-ID: <013201c2b301$85f59a80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> <004301c2b2e6$98ff8520$01fea8c0@livingroom> <012201c2b2fe$1296b860$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <001d01c2b2fe$ed1d8f90$01fea8c0@livingroom> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:24:23 -0500 Status: RO I guess, Lyn, it just wasn't meant to be. Isn't it funny that some things you can pick up and it is like an old friend. It must be a gift in those cases. I always wanted to learn to knit and tat. My back and eyesight has gone so much, I guess I will be happy with just doing embroidery and cross stitch. I glared over at my bags of needlework tonight. I told myself "No, you can't touch them until you finish the quilt and some other work." I get into moods where I want to finish something. When working on a project, I will leave a little corner of something unfinished for when I get into those moods. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 03:40:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05368 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:40:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038g1i1021137; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038g0QI027102; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038faQI027010 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038iAmm012470 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:44:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3E154D1B.80105@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! References: <3E15209A.A947C589@in-tch.com> <012701c2b2ff$eb427180$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:43:07 -0800 Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: (pruning ensues) > Oh, Sue... you have taken my heart!!! I love murals!!!!! This is wonderful > that you found your grandfather's work online. > > Looking at it, I remembered where I found my love for art. When I was in > 4th and 5th grade I went to school located in what was an old high school. > The auditorium was filled with murals from a locally famous artist named > Walter Anderson. http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org/ What a delightful story about your connections to the land and your sense of place. I'm sorry to say that, before now, I never knew about Walter Anderson and am so glad you posted this museum's site. I'm dazzled by his art - his birds and animals are just enchanting!!! What a unique and wonderful viewpoint of your area - thank you so much for telling us about this artist. And, it's so wonderful to see his work is being cherished and exhibited with such love. Uhhh, costume content... oh, yeah...Anderson's use of color in his birds would make a great avian costume inspiration... gosh, all those feathers!! Theresa Eacker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 03:57:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15769 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:57:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038x2i1021463; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038x0QI000580; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h038wgQI000544 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:58:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A0C2CFD1004C; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 02:58:42 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A0C311FE00C8; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 02:58:43 -0600 Message-ID: <014501c2b306$544244c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <3E15209A.A947C589@in-tch.com> <012701c2b2ff$eb427180$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3E154D1B.80105@misc.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:58:47 -0500 Status: RO Theresa, I am glad that you enjoy Walter Anderson's work. All of his children went into the arts field and carried on the family business. I remember at the front of the family estate was a huge pottery shop. His son's were pretty famous for their pottery. It is wonderful to see they have made a museum of their father's work. What a wonderful legacy! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 04:17:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29680 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:17:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h039J2i1021872; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h039J0QI004868; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h039IEQI004725 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:18:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.251]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8400AA3SIC0F@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:18:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting In-reply-to: <001d01c2b2fe$ed1d8f90$01fea8c0@livingroom> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030103010057.04e7cf00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> <004301c2b2e6$98ff8520$01fea8c0@livingroom> <012201c2b2fe$1296b860$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:08:32 -0800 Status: RO >Give me any knitting pattern- cables or other complicated stuff-- and I can >get the pattern in my head after about 2 repeats. I make up sock patterns >on the fly. Crochet- nothing sticks. I picked up crochet really easily. I can parse what I need to do and do it, sometimes just from the picture. But I never remember, in knitting, how to purl. I must have been taught this 20 times, but that's what doesn't stick for me. I can increase and decrease, cast on and bind off, and do a stitch that is sort-of like purling, for doing ribbing (the stitches end up looking twisted), but unless I can knit in the round (=socks), I don't knit. (My mother is the big knitter in the family.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 04:36:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13161 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:36:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h039c2i1022176; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h039c1QI008831; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h039bEQI008690 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:37:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A9C9263B010E; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 03:37:13 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A9C9D790086; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 03:37:13 -0600 Message-ID: <018d01c2b30b$b2161900$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <22E7C420-1D85-11D7-A2A3-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Christmas Wish X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:37:10 -0500 Status: RO Marcus and Emma, Thank you so much for the kinds word. It really means a lot to me. I need all the support and encouragement I can get. Marcus, I hope you will be off list for work and not illness. If it is illness, my thoughts and prayers are with you. I have two disorders, one is degenerative disk disease through out my backbone. My disks are just fading away. The other is a rare collagen disorder called Ehlers- Danlos Syndrome. Unfortunately all my siblings have both diseases and have headed downhill fast this past year. The collagen is from being extremely double jointed and showing off our tricks when we were younger. The disorder also effects the collagen that encases almost everything in your body, muscles, organs, etc. It is effecting my GI tract and the muscles in my shoulders, hips, legs, and feet. Some days, it feels like I am walking on glass. Luckily, I live in a city where there are research doctors who are knowledgeable about this disease. I have been seeing teams of doctors almost weekly since Sept. I went through two months of physical therapy, but it only made matters worse. My goal is to not get as bad as my sisters who have had several disks removed in the past couple of months. I also want to be able to work without being in pain or doped up out of my mind. I guess I should look at it positive, I sure am catching up on the costume movies on TV and videos. I keep taking notes on all of them... hoping to make another film class. I have also pulled an old laptop into the bedroom, to keep notes. I have a big stack of costume books by the bed to keep me company for those breaks that I have learned that I have to take. Patience is the #1 thing I have learned... and not to over do it. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 06:09:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32171 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:09:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03BB7i1024306; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03BB1QI025357; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03BAPQI025113 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:10:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849E41128D4 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:05:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip120.97.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.120]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 02558114B3A for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:05:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <015e01c2b318$13d294f0$78614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> <004301c2b2e6$98ff8520$01fea8c0@livingroom> <012201c2b2fe$1296b860$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <001d01c2b2fe$ed1d8f90$01fea8c0@livingroom> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:05:50 -0500 Status: RO I can crochet easily, but knitting drives me out of my mind. I love the look of it, but I can't stand to do it! Lyn, I may have a knitted doily pattern or two floating around here somewhere. I'll do some digging and see what I can find. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting > Nope, for some reason, I just can't get the hang of the loops and stitches. > Give me any knitting pattern- cables or other complicated stuff-- and I can > get the pattern in my head after about 2 repeats. I make up sock patterns > on the fly. Crochet- nothing sticks. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 06:32:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32249 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:32:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03BY2i1024781; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03BY0QI029685; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03BX7QI029551 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:33:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h03BX7Jm029548 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:33:07 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting Message-ID: <20030103113307.GM13978@net.indra.com> References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> <004301c2b2e6$98ff8520$01fea8c0@livingroom> <012201c2b2fe$1296b860$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <012201c2b2fe$1296b860$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:33:07 -0700 Status: RO Penny said: > I tried to crochet for years. I was so frustrated. Then I > discovered I was trying to learn from my mother who is right handed. Just the opposite here - I learned crochet from my mom, who is left-handed (I'm primarily right). I can crochet up a storm, but I never got the hang of knitting. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 06:43:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32342 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:43:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Bj2i1025000; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Bj1QI001795; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03BigQI001745 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:44:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2015 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 11:44:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.193.45]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 3 Jan 2003 11:44:40 -0000 Message-ID: <001901c2b31d$9576a780$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <009101c2b2dc$733caa20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:45:15 -0500 Status: RO Do Constant Crafters count? My Mom's family is a very "New England" family, where evryone is always busy. Not much artisitc talent, but a lot of do-it-yourself that also meant a lot of craft type stuff. No one knows where I came from. I have one aunt who sews a little bit. Crocheting and knitting, ceramics, gardening are what everyone in my Mom's extended Irish-based matriarchy all did, and I don't do ANY of that! They were all extremely poor - Mom's family were some of the last to get any type of indoor plumbing type of poor. Grandma managed to raise a garden to feed the family, sew the clothes, etc., and everyone, out to 3rd & 4th cousins, all do something. I am the only one who developed a love of sewing, costuming, and they stand in awe (literally, sometimes) over the fact that I do embroidery. It has become a matter of family pride that I always have an embroidery project with me. The fact that they have gotten used to it means that family gatherings are a lot more bearable! My Dad's family I never knew much of, since Dad was much younger than his brothers, and it got nasty when my Grandma died and the 2 brothers went in even before the funeral and cleaned a lot of things out. But my grandfathre appaerntly was a master with wood, doing a number of pictures, tables, and even lamps that are all intricate inlay. That is the ONLY artistic talent I can come up with, and he wasn't anyone I ever met. Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 06:47:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32355 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:47:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Bn1i1025096; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Bn1QI002586; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03BlxQI002365 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8645 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 11:47:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.193.45]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 3 Jan 2003 11:47:58 -0000 Message-ID: <002901c2b31e$0b843640$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> <004301c2b2e6$98ff8520$01fea8c0@livingroom> <012201c2b2fe$1296b860$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <001d01c2b2fe$ed1d8f90$01fea8c0@livingroom> <015e01c2b318$13d294f0$78614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:48:33 -0500 Status: RO > I can crochet easily, but knitting drives me out of my mind. I love the look > of it, but I can't stand to do it! I swear my dislike of it and knitting comes from my grandmother trying to teach me how to knit just when I went into the hospital to have my tonsils out. My mother was furious at me for a long time because I was so rude to my Grandmother after they were out and she was helping take care of me. All I remember was wanting to be left alone (before and after). Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 06:49:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32364 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:49:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Bp1i1025146; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Bp0QI002917; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.mail.adelphia.net [64.8.50.202] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03BooQI002878 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:50:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.65.178.255] by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.25 201-253-122-126-125-20021216) with ESMTP id <20030103114603.RCQA6859.mta10.adelphia.net@[68.65.178.255]> for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:46:03 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re:[h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030103082000.22789.9873.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 06:50:46 -0500 Status: RO wow!! i wish i could see the "india" panel. how beautiful! hmmmm, should i get the postcards, or the book???? laurie > Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:33:14 -0700 > From: Sue Clemenger > To: "h-costume@indra.com" > Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > And in more ways than one! > It never occured to me, until I had one of those "well, duh!" moments, > looking at the link he provided for his grandfather's painting, that > maybe I could find _my_ great grandfather's work online. > Gawd bless Google, 'cuz there he is! > It turns out that my memory is pretty faulty--the murals are located in > Norwalk, CT, and are part of a Depression-era collection of paintings > for a number of public buildings in Norwalk. And the subject was Marco > Polo. (geez, but this is embarassing!) > However, here's the link to the first painting in the series.... > http://www.norwalktransit.com/murals36.htm > It links to the others that they have webbed. Interesting costume > interpretations are especially noticeable in the one titled "Venice, the > musicians." > This is _so_ cool! > --sue > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 07:22:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA32503 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:22:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03CO2i1025950; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 05:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03CO0QI009031; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 05:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03CNmQI008981 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 05:23:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.251]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8500GMC13MS4@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:23:47 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with Crocheting In-reply-to: <015e01c2b318$13d294f0$78614e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030103042252.00d5e3f0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3E1512C8.75B13164@in-tch.com> <004301c2b2e6$98ff8520$01fea8c0@livingroom> <012201c2b2fe$1296b860$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <001d01c2b2fe$ed1d8f90$01fea8c0@livingroom> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:23:21 -0800 Status: RO >Lyn, I may have a knitted doily pattern or two floating around here >somewhere. I'll do some digging and see what I can find. All the doilies my mother does are knitted. There are patterns out there. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 07:28:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA32522 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:28:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03CS3i1026018; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 05:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03CS1QI009729; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 05:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03CRHQI009591 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 05:27:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.79.85.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.79.85] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UQuy-0005l5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:27:16 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103071115.03f26ac8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <20030103082000.22789.97224.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Problems with Crocheting Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:26:59 -0500 Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:59:41 -0500, Penny Ladnier responded to Lyn Greaves' comment: >You mentioned you had problems with crocheting. May I ask... Are you left >handed? I tried to crochet for years. I was so frustrated. Then I >discovered I was trying to learn from my mother who is right handed. I >discovered the problem when standing in from of a mirror. Strangely enough, I'm for the most part left-handed -- but I crochet right-handed. Could never figure out left-handed crochet. OTOH, I taught myself tatting (left-handed) from a book that only had right-handed instructions. Now knitting, *that* gives me conniptions. I have problems executing a purl regardless of whether I'm knitting right-handed or left-handed (yes, I knit ambidextrously -- saves me the trouble of turning the work at the end of every line, but it means it's a lot easier to knit patterns from graphs than from written instructions), and I keep getting confused with "east-crossing" and "west-crossing" stitches. Not to mention that I don't have the patience for it! >I gave up on crocheting then. I really love the art... Sorry to hear that. While I've not crocheted in a while, I usually find it relaxing (if stressful on my hands). Unfortunately, the type of crochet I started getting into (the fine Irish crochet lace that's done by working stitches in #70 cordonnet over #10 cordonnet padding/shaping threads) needs much finer control than I can get on the subway -- the only time I have for hand needlecraft/threadcraft. The #10-20-30 bedspread cotton isn't a problem, but a couple of years of crocheted-snowflake Christmas presents kind of burned out on that... at least for several years. On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:05:48 -0500, Lyn Greaves responded: >Nope, for some reason, I just can't get the hang of the loops and stitches. >Give me any knitting pattern- cables or other complicated stuff-- and I can >get the pattern in my head after about 2 repeats. The pattern is the easy part... just remembering a sequence of stitches. It's the execution (and making sure I don't lose track of which direction I'm knitting in and how far along the line I've gotten)... >I make up sock patterns on the fly. Oh, too cool! Do you do those in sport yarn, worsted, fingering yarn, or lace yarns? Mom's attempts at knitting socks in (*ugh*) acrylic worsted when I was in college ended up with these heavy socks that make even my athletic shoes fit too tightly :( >Crochet- nothing sticks. I think that's my sister with sewing... She can knit stockinette as long as there's no pattern (she knits lengths and lengths of stockinette stitch in cotton and binds them together to make ugly afghans which she never uses... for relaxation). >I had a friend try to teach me, my mother, my grandmother-- I end up with >this nice single row of chain stitch no matter what I do. Sounds like me trying to explain pattern alterations -- in ANY medium (sewing, knitting, crochet, etc.) to my mother! Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 07:37:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA32544 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:37:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Cd3i1026268; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 05:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Cd1QI011958; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 05:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Cc1QI011794 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 05:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.79.85.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.79.85] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UR5L-0002mk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:38:00 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103071316.03f36ea8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] RE: off topic artistic veins Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:37:43 -0500 Status: RO On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:41:12 -0800, MaryAnn Jones wrote: >...Professionally, I am a geologist and even that is a mystery to most of >[my family] because they are all engineers or computer scientists.... Sounds like you're a bit more of a tactile person than they are... but I suspect that the architects and civil engineers in the family would have a professional appreciation for geologists. I mean, without some information about the underlying soils, rocks, etc. -- not to mention local (seismology and tectonics?) -- how would they know how to make a building that will be safe and stable under local conditions? >At the same time, I am not so sure that my costuming is that far removed >from engineering. I can conceptualize a look, determine in my mind what >it should consist of and then make a flat pattern for it without ever >drawing it out on paper and have it work perfectly. I used to explain pattern-making to some of my housemates (I went to MIT, majoring in Nuclear Engineering -- though I've never worked in the field) as "a two-dimensional projection of a three-dimensional reality". So in essence, you have the same analytical and mathematical mind, just patterned in a somewhat different (at least to them) direction. >It is a lot less handy when it comes to historical costume because it is >almost impossible for me to follow a pattern or do something "right". I >always have a better idea. Reminds me of an incident that happened one Saturday night in college, when I was baking bread... I started (surprisingly enough for me!) with a white bread recipe, but substituted 2 c. barley flour for some of the white flour. One of my housemates, upon hearing this, said, "I knew it! I knew you couldn't just make a plain white bread!" Upon reflecting... what he said was true. I seem to have this philosophical aversion to baking *white* bread.... >And, it seems that my children, despite my daughter's obsession with >dance, are following the example of my family rather than my own. I seem >to be the cuckoo artist in a nest of engineers. Next time they get at you (if they do), don't say you're an *artist*. Say you're a "textile manipulation engineer" or a "garment engineer" or a "raiment engineer" or a "garment research scientist" or something like that ... Brenda, who lives in a city where garbage collectors are called "sanitation engineers" webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 08:06:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32635 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:06:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03D84i1026859; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:08:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03D82QI018163; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03D7nQI018117 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:07:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-65.59.53.35.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([65.59.53.35] helo=diane) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18URYD-0004bc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:07:49 -0800 Message-ID: <023d01c2b25f$ff137e20$ae279e40@diane> From: "Diane M. Mathews" To: References: <000401c2b204$b97dfc10$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:06:25 -0600 Status: RO Me too Please !! Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 8:14 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost > Me too- > > Sg > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > >Behalf Of AlbraKat@aol.com > >Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 6:52 PM > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: nicole's ghost > > > >Nicole--- > >I happen to also be very very interested in this as well---could you > also > >mail me privately--- > >thanks so very much--- > >Albra > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 08:17:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32729 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:17:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03DJ3i1027126; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03DJ1QI020454; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03DI2QI020259 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a256.in-tch.com [66.62.107.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h03D1eP20475 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:01:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E158DAB.522CB428@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! References: <3E15209A.A947C589@in-tch.com> <012701c2b2ff$eb427180$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 06:18:35 -0700 Status: RO Oooh! I like those! And for entirely different reasons from liking Bjarne's grandfather's painting, or my great-grandfather's painting! Thanks for sharing! --sue, entirely disposed to be fickle where artistic tastes are concerned! Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Oh, Sue... you have taken my heart!!! I love murals!!!!! This is wonderful > that you found your grandfather's work online. > > Looking at it, I remembered where I found my love for art. When I was in > 4th and 5th grade I went to school located in what was an old high school. > The auditorium was filled with murals from a locally famous artist named > Walter Anderson. http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org/ The murals were the > founding of the Gulf Coastal Region of Mississippi and Alabama. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 08:21:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32750 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:21:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03DL1i1027162; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03DL0QI020913; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03DKmQI020836 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:20:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a256.in-tch.com [66.62.107.56]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h03D4QP21139 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:04:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E158E52.4EDDA65E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 06:21:22 -0700 Status: RO I think I'm getting both, myself . Well, one set for myself, and maybe another set to split among my siblings and cousins. I'll have to find a credit card that didn't get melted by the recent holidays, though! --sue laurie wrote: > > wow!! i wish i could see the "india" panel. how beautiful! > hmmmm, should i get the postcards, or the book???? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 08:38:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00391 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:38:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03De3i1027748; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03De1QI024731; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03DdRQI024641 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:39:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.79.85.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.79.85] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18US2o-0000Vj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:39:27 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103083313.0403b1a0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <20030103122801.9722.24333.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Problems with knitting (WAS: RE: Problems with Crocheting) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:39:10 -0500 Status: RO On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:08:32 -0800, Kayta wrote: >...But I never remember, in knitting, how to purl. I must have been taught >this 20 times, but that's what doesn't stick for me. I can increase and >decrease, cast on and bind off, and do a stitch that is sort-of like >purling, for doing ribbing (the stitches end up looking twisted)... That sounds like the "east-crossing/west-crossing" problem. If I recall correctly, that sort of thing means you're either (1) wrapping the thread the wrong way about the needle (top to bottom instead of bottom to top, or the reverse) or (2) placing the needle through the loop you're purling through in the wrong direction (tip to base of the stitch-holding needle instead of base to tip, or the reverse). I couldn't *begin* to tell you which one goes with which, since it's one of those "English (or is it "American"?) knitting versus Continental knitting" types of esoterica with which I'm *not* familiar. (I still haven't "gotten" Continental knitting style, which I am told works up a lot faster and is a lot more comfortable to work with...) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 08:51:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00488 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:51:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Dr3i1028125; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Dr1QI027537; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03DqEQI027412 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 06:52:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.107.1d725993 (1320) for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:52:00 -0500 (EST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: <107.1d725993.2b46ef80@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_107.1d725993.2b46ef80_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:52:00 EST Status: RO --part1_107.1d725993.2b46ef80_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My parents met at the art institute of chicago, both were painters. Now my mom is an art photographer and my dad is a tech writer by day and playwrite by nite. My mom also was into sewing and costumes when I was little, I think my love of costume started with the wonderful ballgowns she made for my little women madam alexander dolls. My aunt has always made beautiful quilts and my great grandmother was also a painter. So yes, I guess art does run in the family. Cheers, Loren Dearborn --part1_107.1d725993.2b46ef80_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My parents met at the art institute of chicago, both were painters.  Now my mom is an art photographer and my dad is a tech writer by day and playwrite by nite.  My mom also was into sewing and costumes when I was little, I think my love of costume started with the wonderful ballgowns she made for my little women madam alexander dolls.  My aunt has always made beautiful quilts and my great grandmother was also a painter.  So yes, I guess art does run in the family.

Cheers,

Loren Dearborn --part1_107.1d725993.2b46ef80_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 09:04:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00575 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:04:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03E62i1028517; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03E61QI000421; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailexchange.dcls.org (mail.dcls.org [63.161.200.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03E5TQI000244 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:05:31 -0700 (MST) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 Message-ID: <03345EFBE0450444B9E4E288E219D54011CD5D@mailexchange.dcls.org> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1646 - 13 msgs Thread-Index: AcKyskGHNoxrO8jYTL2b+tNIuAkTugAfjDoA From: "Mary M. Spila" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h03E5TQI000244 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:09:00 -0500 Status: RO In my family it is just the opposite. My Father started out as a university Mathematics Instructor, and is now an Industrial Engineer, Mom is an Accountant. My Sister's degree is in Education, Mathematics; and my Brothers are a Computer Scientist and Engineer. I started out in Theater and Film, then finished up in Library Science. I sew, spin yarn, tablet weave, do theater work. One of the things I have never been able to get a handle on is drawing/painting. Mary S. ********************************************************* Mary M. Spila Reference Librarian East Shore Area Public Library Dauphin County Library System Phone: 717-652-9380; ext. 120 Fax: 717-652-5012 WWW.DCLS.ORG _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 09:55:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01235 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:55:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Ev6i1000538; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:57:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Ev1QI013865; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03EtxQI013574 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UTEr-0001Xe-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 06:55:57 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Message-ID: <001c01c2b338$41b77dc0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2B2FD.9558A5C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <107.1d725993.2b46ef80@aol.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:56:11 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2B2FD.9558A5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My father was a dramaturg, director, actor etc. He was also a very talented musician, and seamster (is that a word?). He knit, taught tap dance and spoke 18th century German! My mother was an actress and director. They met in school. She was incredibly creative, had excellent interior design sense. They both gardened and cooked extensively. My sister is a graphic illustrator (and a nurse) and my brother is a master carpenter and building contractor. Me-I am a geek engineer and sewer! I can't carry a tune in a bucket and my kindergarten teacher was always yelling at me for coloring outside the lines!! Sg ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2B2FD.9558A5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My father was a = dramaturg, director, actor etc.  He was also a very talented = musician, and seamster (is that a word?).  He knit, taught tap dance and = spoke 18th century German!  My mother = was an actress and director.  They = met in school.  She was incredibly creative, had excellent interior design sense.  They both gardened and cooked = extensively.  My sister is a graphic = illustrator (and a nurse) and my brother is a master carpenter and building = contractor. 

 

Me-I am a geek engineer and sewer! = I can’t carry a tune in a bucket and my kindergarten teacher was always yelling = at me for coloring outside the lines!!   

 

Sg

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2B2FD.9558A5C0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 10:41:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01431 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:41:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Fh2i1003366; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Fh1OD029943; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03FgoOD029863 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:42:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.251]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8500ATEABD0J@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:42:50 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with knitting (WAS: RE: Problems with Crocheting) In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103083313.0403b1a0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030103073951.00d502b0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030103122801.9722.24333.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:41:02 -0800 Status: RO >>...But I never remember, in knitting, how to purl. I must have been >>taught this 20 times, but that's what doesn't stick for me. I can >>increase and decrease, cast on and bind off, and do a stitch that is >>sort-of like purling, for doing ribbing (the stitches end up looking >>twisted)... > >That sounds like the "east-crossing/west-crossing" problem. If I recall >correctly, that sort of thing means you're either (1) wrapping the thread >the wrong way about the needle (top to bottom instead of bottom to top, or >the reverse) or (2) placing the needle through the loop you're purling >through in the wrong direction (tip to base of the stitch-holding needle >instead of base to tip, or the reverse). I couldn't *begin* to tell you >which one goes with which, since it's one of those "English (or is it >"American"?) knitting versus Continental knitting" types of esoterica with >which I'm *not* familiar. (I still haven't "gotten" Continental knitting >style, which I am told works up a lot faster and is a lot more comfortable >to work with...) That your lengthy, and probably correct, explanation doesn't make sense to me as I read it is probably the problem. I'm ambidextrous and dyslexic. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 10:54:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01663 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:53:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03F91i1001275; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03F90OD017602; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03F8jOD017509 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.228]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B7EA8480362 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:08:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000b01c2b33a$44d1f240$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] affair of the necklace Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:10:35 +0100 Status: RO Have any of you seen this movie? Here is a great link with lots of beautifull photos even of the costume drawings. It is if you can use flash. I really must have it! http://affairofthenecklace.warnerbros.com/# Back to the sackdress. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 12:13:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02180 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:13:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03HFBi1010583; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03HFAOD013125; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:15:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20110.mail.yahoo.com (web20110.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h03HEFOD012707 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:14:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030103171415.42773.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.116.158.11] by web20110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 09:14:15 PST From: Sidonia Ros To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Looking for Fabric in the Bay Area Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:14:15 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Hello all. I was wondering if anyone can direct me to a fabric store up in the Bay Area that might carry lawn. I've only been up here about 6 months and I have located Hancock Fabrics, Poppy's, and Stone Mountain Daughters, but none of them cary lawn. Any other suggestions? Sandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 12:25:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02208 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:25:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03HQ1i1011397; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03HQ0OD018219; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h03HPMOD017905 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:25:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 49261 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Jan 2003 17:25:15 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.138248 secs); 03 Jan 2003 17:25:15 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.138248 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 17:25:15 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for Fabric in the Bay Area In-Reply-To: <20030103171415.42773.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030103122437.C58253-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:25:18 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I know that http://www.mini-magic.com/ sells fabrics for doll clothing, and has a wide variety of very sheer cotton batistes, lawns, etc. Don't know of any stores in your area, unfortunately. Good luck, Drea On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Sidonia Ros wrote: > Hello all. > > I was wondering if anyone can direct me to a fabric > store up in the Bay Area that might carry lawn. > > I've only been up here about 6 months and I have > located Hancock Fabrics, Poppy's, and Stone Mountain > Daughters, but none of them cary lawn. > > Any other suggestions? > > Sandra > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 12:30:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02235 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:30:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03HW2i1011889; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03HW1OD021192; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao07.cox.net (lakemtao07.cox.net [68.1.17.114]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03HUwOD020685 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:30:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from myhouse-uh9sc63 ([68.12.242.212]) by lakemtao07.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20030103173053.DPIF2284.lakemtao07.cox.net@myhouse-uh9sc63> for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:30:53 -0500 From: magdlena@cox.net To: h-costume@indra.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: <3E110FD6.DAD9BD46@gti.net> Message-Id: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Source for Journals, Dissertations, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Opera 6.05 build 1140 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: magdlena@cox.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:26:03 -0800 Status: RO 12/30/2002 7:32:38 PM, martyr@gti.net wrote: >Hey People, >I have a book source-related question... >Does anyone know of a web site (or actual store) that sells >doctoral dissertations &/or scholastic journals? UMI sells doctoral dissertations & theses. http://www.umi.com/ As a librarian, I can't say NO affiliation, but my library has very good relations with them. They are the people who do Digital Dissertations, ProQuest, Factiva, and a number of other spiff databases. >I am looking for a specific issue of "Theater Journal" in either paper >or downloadable form for personal research. Johns Hopkins publishes it. http://www.press.jhu.edu/press/journals/tj/tj.html However, if you live in the United States, the easiest way to get the article(s) you need is to visit your local library. The nearest university library may carry it, or have electronic access, and if they don't, they have a neat service called InterLibrary Loan. ILL can get you a copy of an article to keep, or a book the library doesn't own to borrow for a short while. It may cost you a nominal fee, but it will be less than the cost of buying. >>>One site has it >for download (muse.jhu.edu), but it isn't available to the general >publicfor some reason. Project Muse is a subscription database. We pay lots and lots of money for access to it. Libraries are your friend! Christina Biles Digital Library Services Oklahoma State University Library _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 13:03:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02408 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:03:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03I52i1014653; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03I50OD010017; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03I4bOD009787 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:04:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29368 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:15:24 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Tolkien's waistcoat Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:15:24 -0600 (CST) Status: RO Even given that the OED is often an incomplete source for clothing-word definitions (because of the limitations of the scholarship on costume history available to the authors), I am quite charmed to discover that J.R.R. Tolkien wrote the dictionary entry for "waistcoat." This tidbit comes from a longer (but interesting article) on his work for the OED: http://www.oed.com/public/news/0206.htm#tolkien --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 13:40:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02620 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:40:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Ig3i1017395; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Ig1OD028246; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03IdkOE027055 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <2003010318394005300m87k8e>; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:39:40 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones In-Reply-To: References: <3E110FD6.DAD9BD46@gti.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] authenticity Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 10:26:51 -0800 Status: RO I have been thinking about what I wrote last night about having trouble following directions and historical authenticity and it brought something up for me. I guess that is... how do you know anyway.... Maybe every source we have is the exception rather than the rule. I mean, obviously they didn't use polyester double knit or a nice virgin naugahide, but maybe there are a lot of things that would completely stand reenactment on its head. Say we had four period corsets from the Elizabethan instead of two. Say that the tailor who did the queen's clothes had totally revolutionary ideas about clothing construction or that she had a medical condition that had to be accommodated and that nothing in her wardrobe was representative of the clothing of the day other than in outward appearance. I understand that we have some absolutes. The ones that I can think of are the widths of the cloth that was made based on the width of the looms because we know that, I think. Another one would be that sewing techniques would be based on best use of fabric and accommodating hand sewing techniques. I think that another one is that what people know absolutely they don't say because you don't have to because everybody knows it. I would have to guess that there is a lot of common knowledge from these early time periods that we don't know simply because it was so common. Part of the universal shorthand one could say. I guess this bothers me because of some of the things that I have heard that don't make sense. Like pockets aren't period. You cannot convince me that something that is as intuitive as pockets is not older than the 1600's, or even the 800's, even if we don't have evidence of it. They weren't stupid, and yet we say that nobody ever took a piece of scrap cloth and sewed it onto their clothing to carry something they wanted with them all the time. Nobody ever cunningly sewed a pocket inside their clothing to hide something? Another thing that has always bothered me is the issue of color. I remember when they restored that medieval stained glass window in one of those European churches (a statement that shows me as impossibly angeleno, ie born and raised in LA, the cultural center of the modern universe). Everybody was up in arms when it was finished because after cleaning, the colors were too modern. We think we know what colors they used, and then faced with the evidence that we were wrong, people get mad rather than readjusting their ideas. Some of our ideas about color are based on what we have been able to produce with dye products that we know were available to them, but I think that there are other things that we don't know. And then that whole underwear thing... Right, there wasn't a single woman before 1800 who really didn't like it when her thighs rubbed together as she walked. Just rambling... It isn't that I don't appreciate the research that has been done. I do. I especially love the whole bog dress stuff and people who say, oh I am going down to Oxford tomorrow to look at medieval wills. I guess my point is, well, I am not sure that I have a point. Maybe it is that, no, that isn't it. Okay, so what do I know about history or historical research. Maybe y'all really do know this stuff absolutely. Okay, maybe that is my point... so what do I know. maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 13:55:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06794 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:55:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Iv3i1018518; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Iv1CJ005829; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03ItwCJ005376 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:55:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27162 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 18:55:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.242.64]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 3 Jan 2003 18:55:58 -0000 Message-ID: <007101c2b359$bf8968f0$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: <3E110FD6.DAD9BD46@gti.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:55:56 -0500 Status: RO From: "MaryAnn Jones" (with much snippage of stuff I'm not gonna deal with) > > I guess this bothers me because of some of the things that I have heard > that don't make sense. Like pockets aren't period. You cannot convince me > that something that is as intuitive as pockets is not older than the > 1600's, or even the 800's, even if we don't have evidence of it. They > weren't stupid, and yet we say that nobody ever took a piece of scrap cloth > and sewed it onto their clothing to carry something they wanted with them > all the time. Nobody ever cunningly sewed a pocket inside their clothing > to hide something? > But pockets have been found at least as far back as the 1500's. In Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion (the first one chronologically), there is a pair of venetians with pockets on the side seams. Imagine my surprise, since I had also been told "pockets aren't period!". They are not made as we think of pockets today-- personally, I think they make more sense. They are centered on the side seam, which allows the seam to support them better. Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 14:13:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06953 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:13:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03JF3i1019863; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03JF2CJ014435; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03JEWCJ014161 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-14-14.o1.jps.net ([216.119.14.14] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UXH5-0001U2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:14:32 -0800 Message-ID: <001e01c2b35d$533c8200$0e0e77d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030103171415.42773.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for Fabric in the Bay Area Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:21:28 -0800 Status: RO Britex Fabrics http://www.britexfabrics.com in San Francisco is sure to sell lawn. I have also found that places that sell sewing machines and teach classes on heirloom sewing sell the stuff even if they sell very little fabric in general. Lisa Sinervo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sidonia Ros" To: Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:14 AM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for Fabric in the Bay Area > Hello all. > > I was wondering if anyone can direct me to a fabric > store up in the Bay Area that might carry lawn. > > I've only been up here about 6 months and I have > located Hancock Fabrics, Poppy's, and Stone Mountain > Daughters, but none of them cary lawn. > > Any other suggestions? > > Sandra > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 14:16:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06966 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:16:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03JI1i1020127; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03JI1CJ015773; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h03JH9CJ015392 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:17:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 16115 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Jan 2003 19:17:01 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.651557 secs); 03 Jan 2003 19:17:01 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.651557 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 19:17:00 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: <20030103134611.V58253-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:17:04 -0500 (EST) Status: RO The cardinal don't of researching and writing about historic costume (and about researching history in general): Don't use the words "always" or "never". %99 of a particular population may have done it a certain way, but unless you lived your life back then, there's no way anyone will ever know for sure whether something was or was not always done. When people are starting out in historic costume research, they tend to make the mistake of using these words. The more research you do, the more you realize you don't know and the more cautious you become using absolutes in your work. Everyone who's done serious research in historic costume has had at least one experience where a fundamental assumption they held about a topic was turned upside down by a source, quote, picture, or some other newly discovered item. Once this happens, you start assuming a lot less and examining the assumptions you have in much greater detail. It sounds like you've gotten pretty far along the costume research road and are critically re-examining your assumptions and those of the sources you read, as well as doing primary research of your own. (What are you researching in the wills?) > > I guess that is... how do you know anyway.... Maybe every source we have > is the exception rather than the rule. I mean, obviously they didn't use > polyester double knit or a nice virgin naugahide, but maybe there are a lot > of things that would completely stand reenactment on its head. Say we had > four period corsets from the Elizabethan instead of two. Say that the > tailor who did the queen's clothes had totally revolutionary ideas about > clothing construction or that she had a medical condition that had to be > accommodated and that nothing in her wardrobe was representative of the > clothing of the day other than in outward appearance. All possibilities...but at some point the researcher or re-enactor has to say, "OK, I'm going to take the existing body of extant corsets and consider them representative of all corsets of the period." If more information does come to light, the current stance will have to be reconsidered; until then, we've got to do the best with what we've got. All we can do is base our assumptions on the material available to us. For the Elizabethan corset as an example, this would be material corset remains, literary references to corsets, tailor's bills, account records, inventories, and investigation into all of the things that made up corsets in the above references: leather, whalebone, linen, thread. Researching historic clothing and patterning in general will also help shed light on particular aspects of corsets. "Completely authentic" is always a moving target, which will change with every scrap of information discovered on the topic. > > I guess this bothers me because of some of the things that I have heard > that don't make sense. Like pockets aren't period. You cannot convince me > that something that is as intuitive as pockets is not older than the > 1600's, or even the 800's, even if we don't have evidence of it. They > weren't stupid, and yet we say that nobody ever took a piece of scrap cloth > and sewed it onto their clothing to carry something they wanted with them > all the time. Nobody ever cunningly sewed a pocket inside their clothing > to hide something? Actually, there is evidence of pockets in the 1500s. But I get what you're saying. Again, anyone saying that "pockets absolutely did not exist" should be saying "to the best of our knowledge, pockets did not exist" or "based upon current archeological finds, pockets did not exist." If there is a complete dearth of literary, pictoral and material examples of an item in an area where there are a substantial number of literary, pictoral and material examples of other costume items, the statistics strongly favor the possibility that the item in question didn't exist; but even then there are no certainties. > > Another thing that has always bothered me is the issue of color. I > remember when they restored that medieval stained glass window in one of > those European churches (a statement that shows me as impossibly angeleno, > ie born and raised in LA, the cultural center of the modern > universe). Everybody was up in arms when it was finished because after > cleaning, the colors were too modern. We think we know what colors they > used, and then faced with the evidence that we were wrong, people get mad > rather than readjusting their ideas. Some of our ideas about color are > based on what we have been able to produce with dye products that we know > were available to them, but I think that there are other things that we > don't know. There are certainly tricks of the trade used back then that we have lost over the centuries. Sidestepping the whole complex issue of color in garments as opposed to color represented in painting, the best way to know what colors they had to wear is looking at textile remains. There are many hundreds of textiles and brocades from the 15th and 16th centuries available to look at, and a smaller number from the 13th & 14th centuries. Another way to research color is to find period dye recipes and try to recreate some of the colors which were described. The more you read and study and examine a particular area of costume, the more actual garments you examine and inventories you read and paintings you see, the more the various bits of information you have on a topic begin to feed back into eachother, reinforcing some theories regarding costume and making other theories unlikely. This is a fun topic! Drea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 14:35:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07085 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:35:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Jb2i1021547; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Jb1CJ024201; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf17bis.bellsouth.net (mail317.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.177]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03JaoCJ024079 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:36:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from sarah ([66.20.170.230]) by imf17bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20030103193837.PAXX1219.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@sarah> for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:38:37 -0500 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] authenticity Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <20030103134611.V58253-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:36:02 -0500 Status: RO Well, where does one find wills and what not? I mean, I've been studying Italian paintings for forever now, but I don't even know where to begin to try and find some wills. I'm in the USA, so it's not like I can take a day trip to Florence. I've read Jacqueline Herald's book, and Elizabeth Birbari's, and I don't know where to go from here... Sorry about the vent! Apollonia Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi Kingdom of Atlantia www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia **Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 14:41:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07116 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:41:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Jh2i1022122; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Jh1CJ027002; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03JgUCJ026757 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:42:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12217 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 19:42:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.193.45]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 3 Jan 2003 19:42:30 -0000 Message-ID: <001801c2b360$564092e0$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Tolkien's Hundred Eleventh Birthday today Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:43:06 -0500 Status: RO Today is the auspicious 111 birthday of the LoTR author - from which we have had so many interesting costuming discussions! (obligatory costuming content). Anyone throwing a birthday party celebration? Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 14:50:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07150 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Jq4i1022628; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Jq2CJ001392; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us (cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us [192.154.67.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03JpZCJ001188 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:51:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (mail.pds.charlotte.nc.us [192.154.67.195]) by cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h03JpcJ29439 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:51:39 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 From: Grace Morris To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h03JpZCJ001188 Subject: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:51:33 -0500 Status: RO Warning: I'm in a philosophical mood today. I think that when one is wrestling with the attempt to be "authentic" there is a constant struggle with the following questions: 1. What we do we "know", based on the evidence? This can be a lot, but only if there is a lot of extant material and other evidence. Since I deal with time periods that are sorely lacking in both, there isn't a lot that I "know". And even the state of what I "know" changes constantly, thank goodness! Isn't it wonderful that people keep digging things up? Personally, I'm still waiting for someone to dig up a paisley dress from 16th century England. Until then I read, and look...and read, and look... it's all I have. And always take what I think I "know" with a grain of salt. 2. What do we "think" they did, based on logic, intuition, and whatever else guides us? We might be absolutely "spot on" in our conclusions. However, modern logic is often not that of the time period, just as the aesthetics of beauty change over time. However galling it is to admit, just because we think they should of done it, doesn¹t mean they were smart enough to do it. (Silly people! Whatever were they thinking?) Remember the Victorian costuming "experts" who explained away much based on their view of the world. I would always advise tiny baby steps away from what we "know", not giant strides. 3. What do you personally want to do with it your attempts at authenticity? If you want to win competitions, or if you value the opinions of others, then you will have to accept the fact that you can't get around #1. How well you do with your arguments for your other conclusions will depend upon your persuasive ability, and the receptivity of the judges, be they formal or not. But be prepared to fight the good fight; and be prepared to lose on occasion. 4. In the end, how far are you willing to go for your authenticity? I don't go as far as many people I know. I find that I am quite often more interested in the knowledge than in my own execution. I cheat quite often. Sometimes I am at peace with my decisions, and other times I wish I had done things differently. It is my own ongoing struggle. Things to think about. With no easy answers. Makes life interesting, though! Grace/Jessamyn On a rainy Friday afternoon... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 14:57:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07167 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:57:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Jx2i1023060; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Jx1CJ004373; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21410.mail.yahoo.com (web21410.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h03JwJCJ004087 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:58:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030103195819.37869.qmail@web21410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.159.194] by web21410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:58:19 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tolkien's Hundred Eleventh Birthday today To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001801c2b360$564092e0$01fea8c0@vaio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:58:19 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --- Rowena wrote: > Today is the auspicious 111 birthday of the LoTR > author - from which we have > had so many interesting costuming discussions! > (obligatory costuming > content). > Anyone throwing a birthday party celebration? > Rowena > > *lol* nope, just a feast--wearing costumes of course! Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 15:28:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07371 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:28:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03KU4i1025592; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03KU2CJ019730; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h03KTiCJ019570 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:29:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030103202943.72119.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:29:43 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:29:43 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- MaryAnn Jones wrote: > > Just rambling... It isn't that I don't appreciate the research that has > been done. I do. I especially love the whole bog dress stuff and people > who say, oh I am going down to Oxford tomorrow to look at medieval wills. I > guess my point is, well, I am not sure that I have a point. Maybe it is > that, no, that isn't it. Okay, so what do I know about history or > historical research. Maybe y'all really do know this stuff > absolutely. Okay, maybe that is my point... so what do I know. maryann Maryann, I am afraid that I have to agree that I do NOT get your point. What is it you are trying to say? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 15:34:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07391 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:34:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03KZ2i1025991; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03KZ1CJ022121; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03KYcCJ021920 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29890 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:45:26 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tolkien's Hundred Eleventh Birthday today In-Reply-To: <001801c2b360$564092e0$01fea8c0@vaio> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:45:26 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Rowena wrote: > Today is the auspicious 111 birthday of the LoTR author - from which > we have had so many interesting costuming discussions! (obligatory > costuming content). And, as we all know, that's pronounced "eleventy-first." > Anyone throwing a birthday party celebration? You might find one in your area by clicking the "party" link on this page, which also tells you how to participate in the worldwide toast. http://www.tolkiensociety.org/toast/index.html --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 15:47:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07544 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:47:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Kn2i1027086; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Kn0CJ028628; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf23bis.bellsouth.net (mail225.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03KmuCJ028568 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:48:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from sarah ([66.20.170.230]) by imf23bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20030103205043.ERJ81.imf23bis.bellsouth.net@sarah> for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:50:43 -0500 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:48:08 -0500 Status: RO I guess authenticity is in the eye of the beholder... :) Those were great questions, Jessamyn. I would really love to be authentic, in everything I do in the SCA. But I like my sewing machine and food processor. I do, however, want to look like I stepped out of a painting. Where in lies the rub. I can make a dress from a painting, but I cannot afford the silk velvet. It seems like to me, that a person can always be one more step authentic than they are. But I really don't want to shear my own sheep. :) I love learning and books, and want to learn more. But I guess I need get cozy with a librarian, cause I don't know where to begin. I'll I have done, at this point, is look at paintings online and some extant textiles. I have read the major books on Italian costuming, and don't know where to go from there. Obviously, the gloomy weather and having my two little boys off from school these past two weeks are starting to get to me. :) on the other hand, I received the Virtue and Beauty book for Christmas, and am devouring that. Now I just need to give my hubby hints about what to buy me for my birthday... Apollonia Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi Kingdom of Atlantia www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia **Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 16:31:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07766 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:31:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03LX5i1000457; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03LX0CJ018815; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h03LWICJ018429 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:32:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCquDWPgkqub5aohHpXwe+EyAjOHbcLM6pQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMMNCHWU; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 16:31:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <20030103.153244.-80707.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 20-24 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:32:44 -0600 Status: RO Something that Apollonia just wrote brought up an issue that I have long been pondering. She mentioned that everyone can be more authentic than they are, but she didn't want to shear her own sheep. And while I certainly understand the sentiment, it shows a fundamental assumption that I suspect may be American in origin. The idea that people in the Middle Ages did everything to supply themselves. That it would be MORE authentic to the time to raise and shear one's own sheep, weave and dye the wool, and then cut and sew the garment yourself. If I am not mistaken, for most of the Middle Ages, various aspects of cloth production were pretty well specialized and compartmentalized with dyers guilds, weavers guilds, mercers guilds, and tailors guilds all making sure that no one infringed on their little piece of the moneymaking cloth production business. So therefore it wouldn't actually be more authentic to shear your own sheep and etc, because very few people in the Middle Ages would have been involved with the ENTIRE cloth/clothing production cycle. Their involvement would have been in one specialized area- and sometimes that area would have been simply purchasing it from the local mercer. Could this assumption be a leftover from the semi-mythical American frontier where supposedly (and I'm not even sure of this one) each frontier family had to make all the necessary items for their own survival without aid of merchants or traders? Just joining in on the pondering, Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 16:57:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07934 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:57:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Lx2i1002481; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Lx1CJ001418; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h03Lw0CJ000940 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 90500 invoked by uid 1005); 3 Jan 2003 21:57:50 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.257649 secs); 03 Jan 2003 21:57:50 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.257649 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 21:57:50 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-Reply-To: <20030103.153244.-80707.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: <20030103165423.W58253-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:57:56 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I think part of this problem comes from the fact that we now lack the resources that medieval clothworkers and tailors took for granted--finding yarn or cloth made from sheepwool similar to that of the time, carded, spun and fulled in a medieval or renaissance manner, is pretty much flat out impossible (unless you have friends as nuts about their areas of expertise as we are. :) If you were serious about getting the absolute most supercalifrailistic authentic article possible, you probably would have to do the work from the sheep out, or hunt down someone with the required expertise to do it for you in the correct way. Drea On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Something that Apollonia just wrote brought up an issue that I have long > been pondering. She mentioned that everyone can be more authentic than > they are, but she didn't want to shear her own sheep. And while I > certainly understand the sentiment, it shows a fundamental assumption > that I suspect may be American in origin. The idea that people in the > Middle Ages did everything to supply themselves. That it would be MORE > authentic to the time to raise and shear one's own sheep, weave and dye > the wool, and then cut and sew the garment yourself. If I am not > mistaken, for most of the Middle Ages, various aspects of cloth > production were pretty well specialized and compartmentalized with dyers > guilds, weavers guilds, mercers guilds, and tailors guilds all making > sure that no one infringed on their little piece of the moneymaking cloth > production business. So therefore it wouldn't actually be more authentic > to shear your own sheep and etc, because very few people in the Middle > Ages would have been involved with the ENTIRE cloth/clothing production > cycle. Their involvement would have been in one specialized area- and > sometimes that area would have been simply purchasing it from the local > mercer. Could this assumption be a leftover from the semi-mythical > American frontier where supposedly (and I'm not even sure of this one) > each frontier family had to make all the necessary items for their own > survival without aid of merchants or traders? > > > Just joining in on the pondering, > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 17:29:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08336 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:29:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03MV3i1005051; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03MV1CJ015953; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h03MU2CJ015491 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCquDWPgkqub57zGRkPyfxTkpXIotr4hZfw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMMRNA69; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:29:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <20030103.163034.-80707.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,21-23 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:30:33 -0600 Status: RO Hi Drea, Yep, I understand why that's the way we do it if we want an end product of comparable form. But I think that some people think that it's a BETTER way to do it, that it makes it MORE authentic somehow. It's only a stop-gap measure for us, it's not the way things worked in period. I think that gets lost sometimes. Of course it also opens the issue of: Can we as modern people who haven't been trained in these crafts and techniques in the way, say, a medieval weaver might have been ever really make the kind of cloth that they did? Most of the time when I see modern attempts at weaving, it looks much more like a 1970's 'Arts-N-Crafts' sort of 'make place mats for your table' kind of weave than the period examples which I have seen (few in person, many more in books). Also, as a spinner myself, I can tell you that most modern spinners don't spin to the quality needed to reproduce medieval cloth. And finding enough people to spin fine woolen thread on drop spindles (or even Great Wheels if you are working late enough in period) so that you will finish before the turn of the next century is going to be a project in and of itself! Compromises abound! I'd rather buy a good modern wool cloth, and full and trim it myself so that I can get the darn costume made while I'm still alive to wear it! (I realize things took much less time in period, but then the whole system was working to support itself, quite unlike today!) Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 17:50:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08435 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:50:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Mq2i1007494; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03Mq0CJ025329; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03MpqCJ025262 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:51:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UafP-00034o-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:51:51 -0800 Message-ID: <3E161410.47914801@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlibrary loan References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030102225059.009ffec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 16:52:00 -0600 Status: RO Sheryl Nance-Durst wrote: > Email me the list of the books and I can look them up on OCLC > (a major ILL network available to libraries). If it's in there, > I can email you with the info, then you take it to your local library > and request it. > > Sheryl Nance-Durst > [Who loves being a librarian - it supports her book habit] Dangerous, Dangerous! :) One of my local libraries gives patrons on-line access to the OCLC. Now I can come up with lots of requests to keep my ILL librarian happy. She actually pouts if I show up without any requests. --Charlene -- Forgiveness does not mean ignoring what has been done or putting a false label on an evil act. It means, rather, that the evil act no longer remains as a barrier to the relationship. -- Martin Luther King Jr. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 18:23:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08639 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:23:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03NP2i1009954; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03NP1CJ010331; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd2mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03NOlCJ010212 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:24:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd3mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr2so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.178]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H850041EVPBNJ@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 16:24:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml3so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml3so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.147]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8500A2BVPB7J@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 16:24:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from orb.shaw.ca (h24-80-194-235.gv.shawcable.net [24.80.194.235]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.6 (built Apr 26 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8500HQ7VPA0E@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 16:24:47 -0700 (MST) From: kris Subject: Murals - Re:[h-cost] Bjarne's an inspiration! In-reply-to: X-Sender: ionization@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103152058.00b85398@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20030103082000.22789.9873.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:24:53 -0800 Status: RO I'm wondering if anyone's had any luck downloading the screensavers for any of the murals. I keep getting an "The URL may be incorrect. The parameters passed to this resource may be incorrect. A resource that this resource relies on may be encountering an error. For more detailed information about the error, please refer to the HTML source for this page." error. I've emailed the site people, but they can't help me other than to mail me a disk... which probably wouldn't help anyway, as I don't have a floppy drive :] If anyone has them (I'm most interested in "Merlin" and "Venice, The Musicians"), could you please privately email them to me? Thanks! kris > And in more ways than one! > It never occured to me, until I had one of those "well, duh!" moments, > looking at the link he provided for his grandfather's painting, that > maybe I could find _my_ great grandfather's work online. > Gawd bless Google, 'cuz there he is! > It turns out that my memory is pretty faulty--the murals are located in > Norwalk, CT, and are part of a Depression-era collection of paintings > for a number of public buildings in Norwalk. And the subject was Marco > Polo. (geez, but this is embarassing!) > However, here's the link to the first painting in the series.... > http://www.norwalktransit.com/murals36.htm > It links to the others that they have webbed. Interesting costume > interpretations are especially noticeable in the one titled "Venice, the > musicians." > This is _so_ cool! > --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 19:36:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09008 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:36:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040c3i1015095; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040c1CJ008297; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040b9CJ008006 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:37:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0419saB029218; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:09:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0419sVw029216; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:09:54 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Grace Morris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301032009.53832.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h040b9CJ008006 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:09:53 -0500 Status: RO On Friday 03 January 2003 02:51 pm, Grace Morris wrote: [text cut here] > 2. What do we "think" they did, based on logic, intuition, and whatever > else guides us? > We might be absolutely "spot on" in our conclusions. However, modern logic > is often not that of the time period, just as the aesthetics of beauty > change over time. However galling it is to admit, just because we think > they should of done it, doesn¹t mean they were smart enough to do it. Or, for that matter, that they would have wanted to do it if they had thought of the idea. Tastes do change in 500 years, you know (or even in 5 months). :-) -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 19:37:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09018 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:37:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040d1i1015154; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040d1CJ008682; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040cSCJ008496 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:38:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip117.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.117]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h040cP014235 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:38:25 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] authenticity Message-ID: <3E15BBBA.30137.10B3F028@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <20030103134611.V58253-100000@shell.siscom.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 16:35:06 -0800 Status: RO > Well, where does one find wills and what not? I mean, I've been > studying Italian paintings for forever now, but I don't even know > where to begin to try and find some wills. I'm in the USA, so it's > not like I can take a day trip to Florence. I've read Jacqueline > Herald's book, and Elizabeth Birbari's, and I don't know where to go > from here... One thing that helps is to get away from the idea that you can't get costuming information anyplace but in costume books. For example, try looking in history books. They can give you ideas (if they are well footnoted and bibliographied) where to look for more information. An example Apollonia might be interested in (if she is interested in mid15th C Tuscan Valley) are books by Christiane Klapisch-Zuber (and her frequent co-author Herlihy.) While you don't necessarily find direct costume related information in such books, you do find out a lot more about the people (which can help with understanding about some of their thought patterns and ways of doing things.) You also can get information about other available manuscripts. Again, look at the footnotes and bibliographies. And look at the footnotes and bibliographies in books. The better books will be full of them. (Jacqueline Herald has lots.) It's one of those "think outside the box" things. I like to tell people about something I experienced. I was discussing (during a competition) the "lack of information about Moorish Spain" with someone. She was talking about how she couldn't find a single book which talked about the subject and couldn't find any paintings either. I happened to have one of her reference books for another one of her projects in my hand (a book on the Cantigas de Santa Maria) and was flipping through as I talked with her. Then I handed her *her* book: it was full of woodcuts from the same time in Moorish Spain where she was researching. She had had the book the whole time but was over-compartmentalizing ("this is a music book, and wouldn't have useful costume things in it.") Often you find more and more books, especially if you are talking with others about your interests. That's how I found out about Levi- Pizetsky's Italian Costuming books (covering ancient through 19th C in several *very* large volumes. Fortunately, most of the Middle Ages is in a single volume.) Also, cruise used book stores (in person or on line.) Sometimes you'll find the strangest things in the strangest places (like my book which is a facsimile of the Weaver's Guild documents from several time periods. It was just sitting on a shelf with a bunch of books about cooking. Go figure.) It sounds like you've made a good start. Just keep going! Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 19:37:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09022 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:37:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040d5i1015165; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:39:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040d4CJ008715; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040cOCJ008461 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:38:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip117.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.117]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h040cD014220 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:38:13 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity Message-ID: <3E15BBBB.17605.10B3F4ED@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 16:35:07 -0800 Status: RO > I guess that is... how do you know anyway.... Maybe every source we > have is the exception rather than the rule. I mean, obviously they > didn't use polyester double knit or a nice virgin naugahide, but maybe > there are a lot of things that would completely stand reenactment on > its head. Say we had four period corsets from the Elizabethan instead > of two. Say that the tailor who did the queen's clothes had totally > revolutionary ideas about clothing construction or that she had a > medical condition that had to be accommodated and that nothing in her > wardrobe was representative of the clothing of the day other than in > outward appearance. The more pieces we have, the nicer it is. However, you have to go with what you have available and not try to go with your modern ideas if at all possible. If we only have one corset from 16th C England, it is still more likely that they were made like that than that they were made like a modern theatrical corset. You can also look for other sources of information. Sure, they might not have another corset, but what do other sources (such as the painting of Lady Vernon as a corset example, of wills and inventories, etc) have to add to that information. Ideas also come from somewhere and mutate into other things. So, it is highly unlikely that "the tailor who did the queen's clothes" would have a "revolutionary idea" that they used. Look at what was being done in times as close to the one of interest to see how they were doing it. For example, in corsetry we have several 17th and 18th C exant samples. While the neckline, waist length and some of the specifics such as the angle of the boning and the like change over time, there are some similarities. Those would be very likely to be more consistent in previous times. So, if the one corset in a specific time period is all we have from that time period, the things that are similar between that and one from shortly thereafter show that it was not just a "revolutionary idea". As to specific things done because of physical differences, if you are the Queen and these changes are made, chances are very good that, even though others in that time don't have the same problem, the rest of the population *will* start imitating them. (It is believed that bad feet in a King was the reason why there was a change in men's shoe wear so that they became much wider to the point where they looked in some cases like duck feet.) > I think that another one is that what people know absolutely they > don't say because you don't have to because everybody knows it. I > would have to guess that there is a lot of common knowledge from these > early time periods that we don't know simply because it was so common. > Part of the universal shorthand one could say. Common knowledge isn't written down as much as we would like, but that doesn't mean that it can't be gleaned by a persistent researcher. And by looking at what things were going on before and after a specific time we can get a better idea about the evolution of "common knowledge" which gives us insights. > I guess this bothers me because of some of the things that I have > heard that don't make sense. Like pockets aren't period. You cannot > convince me that something that is as intuitive as pockets is not > older than the 1600's, or even the 800's, even if we don't have > evidence of it. They weren't stupid, and yet we say that nobody ever > took a piece of scrap cloth and sewed it onto their clothing to carry > something they wanted with them all the time. Nobody ever cunningly > sewed a pocket inside their clothing to hide something? While you are correct that no one knows everything about costuming (where is that time travel bubble when you need it!), it doesn't mean that something that is "intuitive" to us would have been done even if we can't find examples of it. Our "intuition" is based on our experiences, which are modern. It is still better to go with what we *do* know than to start using modern intuition. For example, because of modern chemistry and physics, we have a pretty good understanding of how an electric light works. To someone with an education covering this, the electric light seems pretty intuitive. So then, why is it that it didn't come along until now. Sometimes it's because they didn't have access to the same information we have. Sometimes technology had not advanced to the point where it would be thought of that way. Sometimes there were strong cultural reasons for not doing something "differently." And sometimes modern methods actually *don't* work as well as doing it by hand. (Think of trying to do cartridge pleats totally by machine. In cooking there are also examples where you would definitely ruin the foodstuff, such as a dessert, by using a blender or food processor rather than crushing the, for example, strawberries individually. It may *seem* intuitive that they would come out the same, but they *don't* in practice.) And just because we find a single example of something (like the leather bikini bottom at the MOL), doesn't mean that they were in common usage. Knowing *who* it had belonged to and *what* they did for a living sometimes can tell us whether this was an aberration, something unusual done for health reasons or something not talked about much but which was very common in time. There are many things that were "thought of" in medieval and renaissance times, for example, that were never made until the past century. So the old adage "if they would have thought of doing it this way they would have done it" is hogwash. Modern people (and Victorians, for that matter) have a rather patronizing attitude toward the past. Often they think that the people of the past were stupid or barbarians. They weren't. They may have done things differently, but they used logic just as solid as ours for doing things the way they did them. > Another thing that has always bothered me is the issue of color. I > remember when they restored that medieval stained glass window in one > of those European churches (a statement that shows me as impossibly > angeleno, ie born and raised in LA, the cultural center of the modern > universe). Everybody was up in arms when it was finished because > after cleaning, the colors were too modern. We think we know what > colors they used, and then faced with the evidence that we were wrong, > people get mad rather than readjusting their ideas. Some of our ideas > about color are based on what we have been able to produce with dye > products that we know were available to them, but I think that there > are other things that we don't know. This is because of how we have seen them over time. However, I suspect that if you talk to people who look at several different media instead of just a single medium (like stained glass), they would tell you that the colors were not correct. Shoot, a modern person who knows anything about the chemistry of glass would be able to tell you that the muted colors were not original but were the effect of light and time on the glass. This mostly points out the importance in research to confirm your findings by looking at things from many different aspects rather than just the one easiest to get to. > And then that whole underwear thing... Right, there wasn't a single > woman before 1800 who really didn't like it when her thighs rubbed > together as she walked. Interesting. Until recently, the Samoan women (who are, if healthy, anything but slender, besides living in a place where there is high humidity) didn't wear underwear. It seems that if you are not used to having something between your legs when you walk, you don't *like* to have anything between your legs when you walk as it will chafe *more*. As an example, most modern women frequently wear trousers of some sort (shorts, capris, pants, etc.) Some (hi, Nicole) wear them so much that dresses are "weird" for daily wear. However, until the past 50 years or so, women wearing trousers was a sign of "bad things" in the eyes of the other women and it "just wasn't done by good women." Shoot, when I was in school, we were not *allowed* to wear trousers of any sort to school, no matter what the weather. (And it was *very* cold in Spokane, Washington USA when I was growing up. Much like the midwest in winter or some of the Scandinavian countries.) So, while a modern person would say that it couldn't be that girls in the 1950s and 60s wouldn't wear trousers in cold weather, I can assure you that we didn't. (If we tried, we got expelled from school.) (They let us wear snowsuits when the snow was waist high, but they had to come off and were put with the coats, and we weren't allowed to wear them for recess even though we went outdoors for that.) This is one of the most common "modern intuitive" problems in costuming. Saying "I don't like that, so it makes sense that others in history wouldn't have liked it" is incorrect. Sometimes we are just too stuck in our own way of doing things to understand that others might not want to do it our way. > Just rambling... It isn't that I don't appreciate the research that > has been done. I do. I especially love the whole bog dress stuff and > people who say, oh I am going down to Oxford tomorrow to look at > medieval wills. I guess my point is, well, I am not sure that I have a > point. Maybe it is that, no, that isn't it. Okay, so what do I know > about history or historical research. Maybe y'all really do know this > stuff absolutely. Okay, maybe that is my point... so what do I know. One thing that I've found is that the more I learn, the more I find that there is to learn, and how little I really know compared to what is out there in the world to learn. And the more I learn, the more I realize that just because *I* (when thinking in like a modern) think it should be that way, the less likely it is that someone in a different time would even have considered doing it the way a modern would. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 19:44:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09046 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:44:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040j3i1015749; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040j2CJ011033; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h040iECJ010740 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:44:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip117.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.117]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h040i9014834 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:44:10 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E15BD27.7016.10B983A8@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030103.163034.-80707.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 16:41:11 -0800 Status: RO >Compromises abound! I'd > rather buy a good modern wool cloth, and full and trim it myself so > that I can get the darn costume made while I'm still alive to wear it! > (I realize things took much less time in period, but then the whole > system was working to support itself, quite unlike today!) If I'm a tailor or dressmaker in the middle ages or renaissance or even later (as opposed to someone out in the reaches who has to be more self contained), I would buy my fabric from a merchant. I wouldn't make it myself. So, why should I do it now? There are times when I like trying to do things "from the ground up", but it's more of an exercise than a recreation of how it would have been done in the past. Buying the fabric *is* more authentic for the kinds of clothing I like to make! Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 20:33:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09177 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:33:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h041Z2i1018115; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h041Z1CJ025514; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h041YPCJ025395 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:34:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30944 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:45:13 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-Reply-To: <3E15BBBB.17605.10B3F4ED@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:45:13 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > While you are correct that no one knows everything about costuming > (where is that time travel bubble when you need it!), it doesn't mean > that something that is "intuitive" to us would have been done even if > we can't find examples of it. Our "intuition" is based on our > experiences, which are modern. What she said. --Robin, who is too loaded up to write a long post right now and very grateful that Kat saved me the trouble by saying everything I could have hoped to, and more ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 22:12:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09613 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:12:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04344i1022149; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:04:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04341CJ018101; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0433GCJ017896 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.172]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8600HOB5TCZZ@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:03:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030103181539.0510ed30@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3E110FD6.DAD9BD46@gti.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:03:03 -0800 Status: RO >I have been thinking about what I wrote last night about having trouble >following directions and historical authenticity and it brought something >up for me. I didn't read your other post, so I'm coming into this fresh. >I guess that is... how do you know anyway.... When I do a re-creation, I always like to do a typical example, as I find it annoying to have to break character to explain what I did. I research as much as possible the look of the period/decade/year I am doing, so I can come up with a generic example that looks like what I found people seem to have done in that time. I'd be the first to agree that we, here and now, don't know everything 'they' knew 'back then', and anyone who claims he/she does should be regarded in the same light as a used car salesman. But most genuine experts don't claim absolutes like that. They can tell you what they think they do know, and why they think they know it. But in any age predating mass production and mass availability of garment patterns, there won't be absolute uniformity at the time, nor certainty after the fact even among experts. For example, I have found pockets in at least one garment before 1600 (it's in Janet Arnold Patterns of Fashion III). Besides which, if I have a pocket that didn't show, unless I was going up for costume judging I'd just keep the pocket, and who'd know from the outside? I have other considerations than the character I am portraying would have, and need to keep my plastic ID, car keys, and possibly medication, close by me. Real experts can tell you what was common in any period they know, but since they weren't there at the time in question, they know better than to spout absolutes. >Maybe every source we have is the exception rather than the rule. I >mean, obviously they didn't use polyester double knit or a nice virgin >naugahide, but maybe there are a lot of things that would completely stand >reenactment on its head. Say we had four period corsets from the >Elizabethan instead of two. Say that the tailor who did the queen's >clothes had totally revolutionary ideas about clothing construction or >that she had a medical condition that had to be accommodated and that >nothing in her wardrobe was representative of the clothing of the day >other than in outward appearance. > >I understand that we have some absolutes. The ones that I can think of >are the widths of the cloth that was made based on the width of the looms >because we know that, I think. Another one would be that sewing >techniques would be based on best use of fabric and accommodating hand >sewing techniques. > >I think that another one is that what people know absolutely they don't >say because you don't have to because everybody knows it. I would have to >guess that there is a lot of common knowledge from these early time >periods that we don't know simply because it was so common. Part of the >universal shorthand one could say. > >I guess this bothers me because of some of the things that I have heard >that don't make sense. Like pockets aren't period. You cannot convince >me that something that is as intuitive as pockets is not older than the >1600's, or even the 800's, even if we don't have evidence of it. They >weren't stupid, and yet we say that nobody ever took a piece of scrap >cloth and sewed it onto their clothing to carry something they wanted with >them all the time. Nobody ever cunningly sewed a pocket inside their >clothing to hide something? > >Another thing that has always bothered me is the issue of color. I >remember when they restored that medieval stained glass window in one of >those European churches (a statement that shows me as impossibly angeleno, >ie born and raised in LA, the cultural center of the modern >universe). Everybody was up in arms when it was finished because after >cleaning, the colors were too modern. We think we know what colors they >used, and then faced with the evidence that we were wrong, people get mad >rather than readjusting their ideas. Some of our ideas about color are >based on what we have been able to produce with dye products that we know >were available to them, but I think that there are other things that we >don't know. > >And then that whole underwear thing... Right, there wasn't a single woman >before 1800 who really didn't like it when her thighs rubbed together as >she walked. > >Just rambling... It isn't that I don't appreciate the research that has >been done. I do. I especially love the whole bog dress stuff and people >who say, oh I am going down to Oxford tomorrow to look at medieval wills. >I guess my point is, well, I am not sure that I have a point. Maybe it is >that, no, that isn't it. Okay, so what do I know about history or >historical research. Maybe y'all really do know this stuff >absolutely. Okay, maybe that is my point... so what do I know. maryann > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 22:12:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09618 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:12:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0434Li1022177; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0434KCJ018209; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:04:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0433GCL017896 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.172]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8600HOB5TCZZ@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:03:17 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-reply-to: <20030103.153244.-80707.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030103183524.05120c60@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:48:49 -0800 Status: RO >Something that Apollonia just wrote brought up an issue that I have long >been pondering. She mentioned that everyone can be more authentic than >they are, but she didn't want to shear her own sheep. Call me a city girl. I carefully picked an SCA period, geographic location, and social station, where I was certain my persona wouldn't have had to shear her own sheep or spin or weave. I chose to have my persona live in Nuremburg in the mid-1500s, where, if one had money, one could buy almost anything (who ever wove the velvet for their own dresses???). So at SCA events I have a persona who didn't have to cook the food I cooked for her, doesn't have to sew the dresses I sewed for her, didn't have to build the furniture I built for her, and can spend her time doing the things I would rather be doing, like embroidery. She eats with a fork too, someone having brought her one from Italy as a gift. Other people, like Heather Rose Jones, love to do the spinning and weaving thing, and picked their personae accordingly. I think she grew some flax once, to experience making linen fabric from it. But I agree that everyone could be more authentic than they are now. Most of us chose to learn what authentic is, then decide how much of our knowledge we will put into practice. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 23:38:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10052 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:38:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h044U6i1026160; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h044U1CJ009493; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h044TaCJ009365 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:29:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m240.in-tch.com [216.166.191.240]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h044DBP15535 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:13:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E16634E.1083101E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 21:30:06 -0700 Status: RO Yeah, ditto what Robin said, and Kat said. But then, I'm largely into historical costuming for the authenticity and research. There are a lot of assumptions that we all make on a daily basis--decisions, experiences, tools, etc. we just take for granted. It is "intuitive" for me, upon entering my dark house when I come home from work, to reach to the left of the door and flip on the light switch. It would have been a learned thing for my great-grandmother. On the other hand, she may have felt that moving and living in a corset, in clothing with full skirts, etc. was pretty intuitive, because it was so familiar to her. But me? I had to learn to do it--like remembering to make sure the chair you're about to sit in isn't going to scoot away from you because it got pushed back by your petticoats and hoops. Trust me, I *know* how embarassing it is to go loudly @ss over teakettle in the middle of a crowded room (feast hall at an SCA event) because your skirts moved your chair! --sue, who loves the learning process above just about anything.... Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > > While you are correct that no one knows everything about costuming > > (where is that time travel bubble when you need it!), it doesn't mean > > that something that is "intuitive" to us would have been done even if > > we can't find examples of it. Our "intuition" is based on our > > experiences, which are modern. > > > > What she said. > > --Robin, who is too loaded up to write a long post right now and very > grateful that Kat saved me the trouble by saying everything I could have > hoped to, and more ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 3 23:53:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10294 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:53:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h044j3i1026748; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h044j1CJ012896; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h044ixCJ012873 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:44:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A6CA7BE600E8; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 22:44:58 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A6CB19200154; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 22:44:59 -0600 Message-ID: <008001c2b3ac$17cdb820$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <107.1d725993.2b46ef80@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007C_01C2B382.2EACEB80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:45:23 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C2B382.2EACEB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Loren, And you are a wonderful seamstress too and very artsy!!!!!! Now I know where you got it from! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C2B382.2EACEB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Loren,
 
And you are a wonderful seamstress too and very artsy!!!!!!  = Now I=20 know where you got it from!
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & = Costume=20 Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
  ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C2B382.2EACEB80-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 00:26:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10384 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 00:26:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045I2i1027968; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045I1CJ020480; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045HrCJ020431 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:17:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m240.in-tch.com [216.166.191.240]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0451UP28502 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:01:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E166EA0.1508B438@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 22:18:24 -0700 Status: RO Ooooh! Good questions, Grace! And I've found it interesting to read everyone's responses, too! (I dunno whether it's an advantage or a disadvantage to only have list-email available at home ). 1. I try to remember to look at it all (my costuming, my learning, etc.) as a process, an evolution, if you will, rather than this little series of absolutes and rules. Certainly, my abilities have changed over the years, and will probably continue to change. Likewise, my interests shift around (darnit! I wanna learn it ALL!) The internet, and wonderful resources like this list, and the teachers available through Penny's website, and some *amazing* books that I, or friends, have found are a continual suprise and delight--and they're sure not something I had *any* access to, back when I started doing historical costuming about 15 years ago. 2. I would hope that, in my life, the more I'm exposed to different peoples and cultures and ideas, the more I'll learn, not just about them, but about me, and what I take for granted as a woman, and an American, living in the 21st century. Whether it's figuring out how headresses were pinned together in the 14th c., or experimenting with all the different ways one can manipulate fabric to achieve a certain look, or (in a more modern example), learning that in Britain, the pepper is really, really finely ground, and you gotta be careful, or it will *dump* all over your breakfast eggs . 3. What do I want to accomplish with my forays into more-authentic historical clothing...hmmm.... I'm in it for the exploration--because it allows me the absolutely enormous satisfaction of combining two of my greatest loves--learning (especially history), and working with my hands. If I want to make a gown that *could* have been worn by a 14th c. woman in Dublin, I need to know something of the history, culture, and economics of that city, as all of those will influence the clothing options, just as they do today. Secondarily, I'm into historical clothing because I belong to a re-enactment group, and I need something to wear. That does not mean, however, that my interests are in any way restricted to the time period we cover--I have just as many lovely books on 18th c. clothing and textiles as I do earlier eras. And there is this Irish version of a saque gown I wanna copy *so* bad (it's linen, block-printed with bunches of flowers).... 4. This one, I suspect, will vary enormously with the individual, since we're such a divergent group. Even in my own experiences, it sometimes shifts, depending on various factors such as the climate in which I live (both hotter AND colder than the areas of Europe I'm most interested in), the availability of raw materials AND information, my budget , etc. I know there are folks on this list who are into different Faires and such, and who sometimes play specific roles, or levels of society (which I find fascinating, even as I admit to not knowing much about it!), so sometimes you're going to have someone with a limited budget trying to make clothing for a noble, which can be both frustrating and fun. The SCA approach is to, more or less, treat us like we're *all* some sort of minor nobility, unless we specifically choose otherwise. So there seems to me, sometimes, to be an emphasis on the glitzier styles and time periods. Some people are more successful with it, some less so. Someday, Apollonia, I'd *love* to have the money for enough cut-and-voided silk velvet (none of this rayon pile nonsense) to do a *real* Elizabethan (complete with actual gold embroidery threads, and handmade lace, and the whole works), or some of those beeyoootiful Italian styles, but I sure can't afford it right now. And I've done my share, over the years, of Elizabethans made of corduroy, and princess-seamed cotehardies, and some of them have really worked out nicely. But ya know? I've finally gotten to the stage in my life where I've realized that, with today's resources, it's entirely possible for me to make an outfit that *is* within my budget, and *is* made of period materials, and using period techniques. Most people in the middle ages and beyond weren't wearing velvets and silks--they were ordinary people, like you and me, and they wore cottons, and wools, and linens. *Those* I can afford, even if it's hard for me to hunt them down! I guess I just learned to think outside the "I've got to be fancy because I'm dressing up" box I'd put myself in. I'm not in this for a contest, or to impress people, and I'm trying not to draw the distinction I often see people make, between "garb for a contest" and "garb for the rest of the time." Which is not to say, of course, that I don't enter contests (I do), nor that I wouldn't mind impressing, say....somebody like Drea, or Bjarne, or Robin, or Margo.....If there were no contests, and no one to impress, there'd still be me, and I'd still be making things. --sue, quitting while she's ahead (well, and the coffee cup is empty ). Grace Morris wrote: > > Warning: I'm in a philosophical mood today. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 00:30:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10407 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 00:30:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045M1i1028070; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045M0CJ021348; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from out005.verizon.net (out005pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045LMCJ021174 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out005.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030104052117.KSWD16306.out005.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:21:17 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out005.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:21:17 -0600 Message-Id: <20030104052117.KSWD16306.out005.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 0:21:17 -0500 Status: RO > > From: seamstrix@juno.com > Date: 2003/01/03 Fri PM 05:30:33 EST > To: h-costume@indra.com > CC: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder > > Hi Drea, > > Yep, I understand why that's the way we do it if we want an end product > of comparable form. But I think that some people think that it's a BETTER > way to do it, that it makes it MORE authentic somehow. It's only a > stop-gap measure for us, it's not the way things worked in period. I > think that gets lost sometimes. Of course it also opens the issue of: Can > we as modern people who haven't been trained in these crafts and > techniques in the way, say, a medieval weaver might have been ever really > make the kind of cloth that they did? Most of the time when I see modern > attempts at weaving, it looks much more like a 1970's 'Arts-N-Crafts' > sort of 'make place mats for your table' kind of weave than the period > examples which I have seen (few in person, many more in books). Also, as > a spinner myself, I can tell you that most modern spinners don't spin to > the quality needed to reproduce medieval cloth. And finding enough people > to spin fine woolen thread on drop spindles (or even Great Wheels if you > are working late enough in period) so that you will finish before the > turn of the next century is going to be a project in and of itself! > Compromises abound! I'd rather buy a good modern wool cloth, and full and > trim it myself so that I can get the darn costume made while I'm still > alive to wear it! (I realize things took much less time in period, but > then the whole system was working to support itself, quite unlike today!) > > > Karen > A friend of mine is a weaver at work. He specializes in historic fabrics and has been doing so for years. His finished fabrics look no different to me than the originals he copies. Now it is true that his speciality is NOT medeivial fabric but the technology is the same. It can be done. I think that probable that you are relating has more to do with the time spent perfecting the craft than just being modern. Much of the cloth you are referring to is no doubt made in somebody's freetime rather than on a full time basis. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 00:52:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10455 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 00:52:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045i2i1028704; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045i1CJ025866; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045hsCJ025837 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:43:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m240.in-tch.com [216.166.191.240]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h045RUP05258 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:27:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1674B9.6AF87E9A@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder References: <20030103.153244.-80707.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 22:44:25 -0700 Status: RO I don't know that it's American, necessarily. And it's not even restricted to costuming and clothing--I see similar debate in my other area of interest (pre-17th c. cooking). *Some* of American and Canadian history shows evidence of people living in largely self-sufficient communities, and our early (relative) isolation from each other, and from Europe, and the markets of Europe certainly have resulted in some interesting skills and styles and adaptations. But I don't think that's where the push to know things from "sheep to shawl" comes from. I think, rather, it's a by-product of people looking at, say, recreating 16th c. Northern Italian cuisine, or clothing worn by the settlers in Greenland, or the proper way to fasten shut an 18th c. french gown, as *areas of study.* If I, as a scholar of things historical, know something about the different processes that go into making a 14th c. gown--what type of fibers would have been used, how they were spun, and dyed, and woven, how the fabric was finished, by whom it was cut out and sewn, and all the finishing techniques used or not used, then I, as a scholar of things historical, have a better understanding of my subject, and will be better equipped to either recreate said garment, or know a good one when I purchase it. If I were a woman in 14th c. Europe, I wouldn't necessarily need to know most of that, because it'd already be there, and it would be just as commonplace a knowledge set (*this* is in style, but *this* isn't....and this will last a good while, but this will need to be redyed because that kind of green fades....) as my similar knowledge sets are, today (think of "casual Fridays," or net or cell-phone etiquette). I don't know who sets or enforces standards in non-SCA historical groups, let alone the contexts in which authenticity comes up, because my experience has solely been in the SCA, but this topic comes up a LOT among the artisans I hang out with (usually in a competition context). All I can say is, I perceive a difference in quality of effort between someone who made her own salt, and grew her own herbs for her salad (on the one hand), and someone who just purchased those things for hers, even if the salads are equally tasty. Just like I perceive a difference in quality between a gown trimmed in Bjarne's truly droolsome handmade lace, and the nicest lace I could afford to buy. Truly, not to in any way penalize those who don't have access to garden space, or the time to make their own lace, but to honor those who do learn it. Does that make any sense? I gnaw on this frequently....especially since I have friends who don't agree with me! (but then, that just makes things more....interesting!) --sue, who really should get off the computer and either go to bed, or do some more blackwork....(g'night, everyone) seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > Something that Apollonia just wrote brought up an issue that I have long > been pondering. She mentioned that everyone can be more authentic than > they are, but she didn't want to shear her own sheep. And while I > certainly understand the sentiment, it shows a fundamental assumption > that I suspect may be American in origin. The idea that people in the > Middle Ages did everything to supply themselves. That it would be MORE > authentic to the time to raise and shear one's own sheep, weave and dye > the wool, and then cut and sew the garment yourself. If I am not > mistaken, for most of the Middle Ages, various aspects of cloth > production were pretty well specialized and compartmentalized _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 01:01:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10493 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:01:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045r3i1029025; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h045r0CJ027834; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h045pwCJ027527 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:51:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCquDWPgkqub5CrYDRqtbZlL/vPPu/Fefzg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMNJX899; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:51:30 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <20030103.235249.-498575.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,19-20,24,26-28 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:52:49 -0600 Status: RO Hi Ron, I have occasionally seen reproduction fabrics which are dead-ringers for the medieval stuff, but MOST of the stuff one sees as hand-woven wouldn't have been used for sacking in the Middle Ages! If you have the time and skills to make it, or the money to buy it, more power to you! However, an inferior modern product is not more authentic just because it is handwoven. You are right that most modern weavers are doing it as hobbyists and are only able to achieve a certain skill level because of all those life issues that prevent us from doing what we really love (or most of us anyway!). Their product remains inferior for use as a historical reproduction fabric. In this case a machine spun and woven fabric which has the correct thread count and finish would be far better for a piece of historical clothing than a handspun and woven fabric that had the incorrect thread count and finish. I have been spinning for 25 years and yet I will bet that there were 10 year olds in medieval Flanders who could spin far better thread than I can after twice as long simply because they did it every day and had a defined set of standards they had to meet or their product wouldn't sell. My point, and I do have one, is that making a garment 'from the fleece up' isn't necessarily more authentic or generally better than a garment made from carefully chosen and prepared machine made fabric simply because it is 'hand-woven', nor is making something from fleece to finished garment particularly authentic for someone in the Middle Ages. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 01:11:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10517 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:11:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04632i1029404; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04631CJ029992; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0462OCJ029832 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:02:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (pnsk4198.dialup.dandy.net [66.250.159.198]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0462SU7013572 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:02:28 -0500 Message-ID: <3E1679BD.D928978A@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity References: <3E110FD6.DAD9BD46@gti.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:05:49 -0500 Status: RO Hi. I am saving a lot of your responses to this because they are a synthesis of what I have been trying to tell folks for years. We try our best to recreate things using what evidence we have to hand. This list connects people of like interests who share their resources. The more areas we study, the more we know about a given time period. On the subject of spinning/weaving etc., we can even say "how many people from our period(s) constructed their own clothes, or even knew how to if they didn't"? I know of a lot of people that have just given up because they have decided (or been told) that "you can't be completely 'period' (meaning authentic), so don't even try". In this case, the journey, not the destination, is the goal. To tie it in with the Tolkien postings, it is my opinion that that is what Professor Tolkien was trying to show with his archetypal tale. So long as we are trying to do our best, our goal is before us, and our motives are good and honest, we cannot be faulted. Regardless of the reason for our study, be it Hallowe'en, Renfair, SCA, Living History/Reenactment, Theater or whatever, doing what we know is "authentic" can't go wrong, and saying "we don't really know, but this is the best we can surmise based on the details we do know" shows that we are not giving up, but pressing forward with our "quest". So long as we are learning (from each other as well as from other sources), we are progressing. This is why we occasionally debase ourselves by looking at our early work and having a good laugh at our own expense, because we realise that we all had to start our journey somewhere. Hope this makes sense to you (I've been working a long day, 2 shifts, 2 different cities, lotsa fun *not*). Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 01:43:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10578 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:43:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h046Z3i1000521; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h046Z1CJ007304; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe13.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h046Y4CJ007080 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:34:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:33:57 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2003 06:33:57.0128 (UTC) FILETIME=[423C0080:01C2B3BB] Subject: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:33:44 -0500 Status: RO Hi all! My parents are planning on buying me a sewing machine for Christmas. We didn't have time to shop before, so it will be a late present, but we saw a couple of machines today and I'm a little lost. We saw the Pfaff machines but they were bought out by Husqvarna and we're afraid we might have trouble getting it repaired? Anyway, we were looking at the Select 1540 (mechanical) and the Expression 2034 (electronic). Are any of you familiar with those machines? Those electronic ones look very nice, but since I'm probably going to keep it for a very long time, I want to be certain I'm choosing the right thing. We also saw the Viking machines, they look niftier and they're less expensive for very similar functionalities. I'm not sure which model we were looking at, but comparing with the Husqvarna website it might have been the Rose model. Or maybe it was Lily. Viking machines seem to all be electronic now. I'm pretty certain you're all going to say it's a good choice, but aside from that, any other comments? So, any advice? Should I drive all the way across town (40 km) to take a look at the Bernina machines? Should I try to find a Singer retailer to investigate them too? What about the White machines? Do you think I should avoid Pfaff because of the change of company ownership? Help? :-) And thanks a lot... Audrey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 01:43:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10582 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:43:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h046ZHi1000532; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h046ZGCJ007361; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h046YBCJ007120 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:34:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <200301040634050010090av2e>; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 06:34:05 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103220719.00a78540@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-Reply-To: <20030103134611.V58253-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 22:32:32 -0800 Status: RO Thanks Drea, that answers a lot of questions. I wasn't commenting on my own research, but how impressed I was with what other people are doing (the bog dress and researching wills). I guess I don't really understand a lot of stuff about historic research. The closest I ever came was in college when I was a field assistant for a phd student who didn't have the fossil knack. I found him four new species of trilobite in one afternoon that completely turned his thesis on its head. I see ghosts. I mean, I look at the pictures of those standing stones and I feel like the people who built them, who's distant child I am, are speaking to me and want me to know what they meant to them. To have accomplished a feat like that, to have carried them all that distance and placed them upright, it must have meant something tremendous to them. You want to pass along something like that to your children, you want them to know what you value and why. I am their child, albeit distantly, and I feel that they want me to know. What you wear isn't that compelling, but still, it is a part of your connection backwards and forwards. Maybe that is why we like the clothing (not costume) research and the wearing costumes and doing reinactment. maryann At 02:17 PM 1/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >The cardinal don't of researching and writing about historic costume (and >about researching history in general): Don't use the words "always" or >"never". %99 of a particular population may have done it a certain way, >but unless you lived your life back then, there's no way anyone will ever >know for sure whether something was or was not always done. > >When people are starting out in historic costume research, they tend to >make the mistake of using these words. The more research you do, the more >you realize you don't know and the more cautious you become using >absolutes in your work. Everyone who's done serious research in historic >costume has had at least one experience where a fundamental assumption >they held about a topic was turned upside down by a source, quote, >picture, or some other newly discovered item. Once this happens, you >start assuming a lot less and examining the assumptions you have in much >greater detail. > > It sounds like you've gotten pretty far along the costume research road >and are critically re-examining your assumptions and those of the sources >you read, as well as doing primary research of your own. (What are you >researching in the wills?) > > > > > > I guess that is... how do you know anyway.... Maybe every source we have > > is the exception rather than the rule. I mean, obviously they didn't use > > polyester double knit or a nice virgin naugahide, but maybe there are a lot > > of things that would completely stand reenactment on its head. Say we had > > four period corsets from the Elizabethan instead of two. Say that the > > tailor who did the queen's clothes had totally revolutionary ideas about > > clothing construction or that she had a medical condition that had to be > > accommodated and that nothing in her wardrobe was representative of the > > clothing of the day other than in outward appearance. > >All possibilities...but at some point the researcher or re-enactor has to >say, "OK, I'm going to take the existing body of extant corsets and >consider them representative of all corsets of the period." If more >information does come to light, the current stance will have to be >reconsidered; until then, we've got to do the best with what we've got. > >All we can do is base our assumptions on the material available to us. >For the Elizabethan corset as an example, this would be material corset >remains, literary references to corsets, tailor's bills, account records, >inventories, and investigation into all of the things that made up >corsets in the above references: leather, whalebone, linen, thread. >Researching historic clothing and patterning in general will also help >shed light on particular aspects of corsets. "Completely authentic" is >always a moving target, which will change with every scrap of information >discovered on the topic. > > > > > I guess this bothers me because of some of the things that I have heard > > that don't make sense. Like pockets aren't period. You cannot convince me > > that something that is as intuitive as pockets is not older than the > > 1600's, or even the 800's, even if we don't have evidence of it. They > > weren't stupid, and yet we say that nobody ever took a piece of scrap cloth > > and sewed it onto their clothing to carry something they wanted with them > > all the time. Nobody ever cunningly sewed a pocket inside their clothing > > to hide something? > >Actually, there is evidence of pockets in the 1500s. But I get what >you're saying. Again, anyone saying that "pockets absolutely did not >exist" should be saying "to the best of our knowledge, pockets did not >exist" or "based upon current archeological finds, pockets did not exist." >If there is a complete dearth of literary, pictoral and material examples >of an item in an area where there are a substantial number of literary, >pictoral and material examples of other costume items, the statistics >strongly favor the possibility that the item in question didn't exist; but >even then there are no certainties. > > > > Another thing that has always bothered me is the issue of color. I > > remember when they restored that medieval stained glass window in one of > > those European churches (a statement that shows me as impossibly angeleno, > > ie born and raised in LA, the cultural center of the modern > > universe). Everybody was up in arms when it was finished because after > > cleaning, the colors were too modern. We think we know what colors they > > used, and then faced with the evidence that we were wrong, people get mad > > rather than readjusting their ideas. Some of our ideas about color are > > based on what we have been able to produce with dye products that we know > > were available to them, but I think that there are other things that we > > don't know. > >There are certainly tricks of the trade used back then that we have lost >over the centuries. Sidestepping the whole complex issue of color in >garments as opposed to color represented in painting, the best way to know >what colors they had to wear is looking at textile remains. There are >many hundreds of textiles and brocades from the 15th and 16th centuries >available to look at, and a smaller number from the 13th & 14th centuries. >Another way to research color is to find period dye recipes and try to >recreate some of the colors which were described. > >The more you read and study and examine a particular area of costume, the >more actual garments you examine and inventories you read and paintings >you see, the more the various bits of information you have on a topic >begin to feed back into eachother, reinforcing some theories >regarding costume and making other theories unlikely. > >This is a fun topic! > >Drea > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 01:46:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10595 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:46:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h046c1i1000635; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h046c1CJ007923; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h046b4CJ007708 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <200301040636580010022dnte>; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 06:36:59 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103223412.00aa3770@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-Reply-To: <20030103202943.72119.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 22:35:25 -0800 Status: RO I guess just asking questions about what do we really know and how do we know it. Actually, Drea answered the questions better than I asked them. I guess I have just been bothered by somethings that I have heard. At 08:29 PM 1/3/2003 +0000, you wrote: > --- MaryAnn Jones wrote: > > > Just rambling... It isn't that I don't appreciate the research that has > > been done. I do. I especially love the whole bog dress stuff and people > > who say, oh I am going down to Oxford tomorrow to look at medieval > wills. I > > guess my point is, well, I am not sure that I have a point. Maybe it is > > that, no, that isn't it. Okay, so what do I know about history or > > historical research. Maybe y'all really do know this stuff > > absolutely. Okay, maybe that is my point... so what do I know. maryann > >Maryann, I am afraid that I have to agree that I do NOT get your point. >What is >it you are trying to say? > >Nicole > >===== >Nicole Kipar M.A. >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: nicole@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 03:31:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05482 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 03:31:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048NGi1003819; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:23:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048N3CJ028981; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.fi (IDENT:postfix@morgoth.tuug.fi [130.232.72.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048MVCJ028863 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix, from userid 15211) id 73CD9FB8F; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:21:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A1BFA99 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:21:32 +0200 (EET) From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-Reply-To: <3E15BBBB.17605.10B3F4ED@localhost> Message-ID: References: <3E15BBBB.17605.10B3F4ED@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:21:32 +0200 (EET) Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > Shoot, when I was in school, we were not *allowed* to wear trousers > of any sort to school, no matter what the weather. (And it was *very* > cold in Spokane, Washington USA when I was growing up. Much like the > midwest in winter or some of the Scandinavian countries.) So, while a > modern person would say that it couldn't be that girls in the 1950s > and 60s wouldn't wear trousers in cold weather, I can assure you that > we didn't. (If we tried, we got expelled from school.) Skirts can be plenty warm and nice in very cold weather. It has been between -20 and -28 Celsius here this week, and I have still worn skirts. I have a wonderful woollen winter skirt, but I can also be rather warm with a wide polyester skirt, if I wear cotton leggins and thigh lenght woolen stockings underneath. Compared to wearing thick trousers, this solution is better for me as I can remove my woolen stockings very easily and avoid sweating indoors. -- Lynoure Rajamaki lynoure@tuug.fi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 03:34:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07392 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 03:34:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048Q1i1003886; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048Q1CJ029475; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048P1CJ029310 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from p23-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.151] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Ujc1-0000yj-00; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 21:24:58 +1300 Message-ID: <008501c2b3ca$c43c5850$97cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030103.153244.-80707.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> <3E1674B9.6AF87E9A@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:24:56 +1300 Status: RO > > Something that Apollonia just wrote brought up an issue that I have long > > been pondering. She mentioned that everyone can be more authentic than > > they are, but she didn't want to shear her own sheep. And while I > > certainly understand the sentiment, it shows a fundamental assumption > > that I suspect may be American in origin. The idea that people in the > > Middle Ages did everything to supply themselves. I think that when people talk about shearing their own sheep is not about an assumption that everyone did the work themselves, but that was the process that produced the fabric. I think most of us are aware that no one could have done *everything* for themselves, or at least they are in a bit of a minority, but that none of them used the machinery that produces even 100% natural fibred fabrics. And I think people doing historical research also trade skills, ie cloth for metal work etc. michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 03:39:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11815 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 03:39:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048V2i1004088; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048V0CJ000814; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048U4CJ000616 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from p23-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.151] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Ujgv-0008Lb-00; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 21:30:01 +1300 Message-ID: <008b01c2b3cb$7986de10$97cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:30:00 +1300 Status: RO My mother sketched a lot, and Oma sang a lot, both for themselves around the house. My Dad, sister and brother are all into graphic arts of some sort or another. I hesitate to call myself artistic, as my work wavers in terms of originality, but I do like to call my work craft. I also do OOAK dolls, well did, haven't sculpted any for a while.. and I make/made mixed media cats: http://recital.tripod.com/sketch michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 03:41:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13845 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 03:41:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048X3i1004120; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048X1CJ001145; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21204.mail.yahoo.com (web21204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h048WUCJ001041 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:32:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030104083230.45709.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.252.64.5] by web21204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:32:30 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E1674B9.6AF87E9A@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:32:30 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > I don't know that it's American, necessarily. And > it's not even > restricted to costuming and clothing--I see similar > debate in my other > area of interest (pre-17th c. cooking). > But > I don't think that's > where the push to know things from "sheep to shawl" > comes from. I > think, rather, it's a by-product of people looking > at, say, recreating > 16th c. Northern Italian cuisine, or clothing worn > by the settlers in > Greenland, or the proper way to fasten shut an 18th > c. french gown, as > *areas of study.* > All I can say is, I perceive a difference in quality > of effort between > someone who made her own salt, and grew her own > herbs for her salad (on > the one hand), and someone who just purchased those > things for hers, > even if the salads are equally tasty. Good points there. Let me add another example from my cooking interests (because it's a simpler example than the costuming ones). I cook with herbs. Some I grow, some I buy from the supermarket. How do I choose which ones to grow? Two reasons. 1) I can't get the variety I want from the supermarket: parsley yes, borage no (and club-root parsley to use like carrot is hard to find even as seed). 2) I want to know how hard it is to grow a herb under certain conditions, to investigate arguments about "they can't have used that herb fresh 'cos you can't grow it there". A medieval cook would have had access to a medieval herb garden: I don't. So either I grow my own, or I find a friend who can supply me with the resources I need. Herbs I can do (and supply our local mead-maker with his requirements, too). In comparison, my experiments with spinning suggest that while I can learn from the experience, if I want fabric or even usable thread, I'd better buy it ready-made. But skills differ: others may well find that spinning their own thread and indeed, shearing their own sheep, gives a more accurate result than buying an approximation. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 03:48:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21697 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 03:48:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048e2i1004329; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048e1CJ002512; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048dmCJ002473 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from p23-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.151] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18UjqM-00024I-00; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 21:39:46 +1300 Message-ID: <009901c2b3cc$d6f0c9c0$97cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <22E7C420-1D85-11D7-A2A3-0003936A9570@virgin.net> <018d01c2b30b$b2161900$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Christmas Wish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:39:46 +1300 Status: RO > I have two disorders, one is degenerative disk disease through out my > backbone. My disks are just fading away. The other is a rare collagen > disorder called Ehlers- Danlos Syndrome. oooh, I know about ED. Thought I might have had it for a while because I was so hypermobile. Now of course I'm not because of the RA and all my joints in the process of being deformed. Definately know what you are going through. Have you Been to the http://marge.com/hypermobility.html board? I used to visit there, as the HMS was a pain at times:) michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 03:57:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27137 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 03:57:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048n3i1004594; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048n1CJ004184; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h048maCJ004116 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:48:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AFE38423012C; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 02:48:35 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AFE5D2500C6; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 02:48:37 -0600 Message-ID: <00ca01c2b3cd$409b91c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <008b01c2b3cb$7986de10$97cfadcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 03:42:44 -0500 Status: RO Michaela, Anyone who creates costumes like you do is an artist! Fashion and Costume are both in the school of art at universities. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins > My mother sketched a lot, and Oma sang a lot, both for themselves around the > house. My Dad, sister and brother are all into graphic arts of some sort or > another. > > I hesitate to call myself artistic, as my work wavers in terms of > originality, but I do like to call my work craft. > > I also do OOAK dolls, well did, haven't sculpted any for a while.. and I > make/made mixed media cats: > http://recital.tripod.com/sketch > > michaela > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 04:10:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06371 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:10:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h049C3i1005061; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 02:12:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h049C1CJ008260; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 02:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h049BwCJ008239 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 02:11:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.24]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8600F9RMVV31@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:11:57 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: old vs. new mindsets (was Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-reply-to: <3E1674B9.6AF87E9A@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030104003850.00d62850@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030103.153244.-80707.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:47:06 -0800 Status: RO >as my >similar knowledge sets are, today (think of "casual Fridays," or net or >cell-phone etiquette). Imagine the phrase 'I can move this window around with my mouse' uttered 100 years ago. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 04:10:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06878 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:10:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h049CKi1005077; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 02:12:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h049CJCJ008316; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 02:12:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h049BwCN008239 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 02:11:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.24]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8600F9RMVV31@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:11:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-reply-to: <3E1679BD.D928978A@dandy.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030104005153.0515ad60@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3E110FD6.DAD9BD46@gti.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:11:40 -0800 Status: RO >On the subject of spinning/weaving etc., we can even >say "how many people from our period(s) constructed their own clothes, or even >knew how to if they didn't"? I had to dabble in several arts and crafts to furnish my SCA persona with the things I researched that she would have had, but she would have known none of these arts or crafts. And then I had to research those things she would have known, to be doing at events. >I know of a lot of people that have just given up >because they have decided (or been told) that "you can't be completely >'period' >(meaning authentic), so don't even try". I know I can't be completely authentic - I can't afford to pay for handwoven silk velvet, my life was saved by penicillin once, and I get to events in an internal-combustion-powered vehicle. But my goal is to get as close as I can to 100% authentic in what I wear, and I'm doing that better now than I was in the 1970s. I win. And I will achieve it better next year than I am doing now. I win. And I've met all these other costumers who share my passion. I win. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 04:10:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06932 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h049CQi1005093; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 02:12:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h049CPCJ008334; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 02:12:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h049BwCL008239 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 02:11:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.24]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8600F9RMVV31@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:11:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-reply-to: <3E166EA0.1508B438@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030104001845.00cd33f0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:50:57 -0800 Status: RO >I'm not in this for a contest, or to impress people, and I'm trying not to draw the distinction I often see people make, between "garb for a contest" and "garb for the rest of the time." Which is not to say, of course, that I don't enter contests (I do), nor that I wouldn't mind impressing, say....somebody like Drea, or Bjarne, or Robin, or Margo.....If there were no contests, and no one to impress, there'd >still be me, and I'd still be making things. I do make the distinction between contest entries and everything else. For the contest entries I plan ahead and take the time to do the inside finish and achieve the quality of detail work that I really should be doing all the time. This is because the judges will see it, and one tries to impress the judges if one competes to win. For competition I try to carefully document every little piece, and rehearse what I am going to say to judges whose period I may not be doing. Alternatively, if it's not for competition, I sometimes rush my schedule, skip these details before my first wearing, and add modern conveniences like car key pockets I cannot otherwise document. But I was a picky purist before the days of internet costume lists and Janet Arnold, because I am a visual person and could always see the difference between the right lines and the wrong ones (whether I could accurately recreate these or not). The area in which I have progressed most is in what fabrics are appropriate for what periods, and how to simulate these on my tiny budget. I have always tried to challenge myself to make the perfect copy, and keep raising the bar on myself as my technique and other peoples' published research get better. I have come far enough to be able to laugh at some of my early work, but I realize I still have a ways to go. I'm so glad there's h-costume, and all of us are talking to each other. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 07:52:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23012 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:52:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Cs7i1010820; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 05:54:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Cs1CJ018489; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 05:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04CrOCJ018379 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 05:53:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.fe.217c0a96 (4206) for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:53:13 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_fe.217c0a96.2b483338_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:53:12 EST Status: RO --part1_fe.217c0a96.2b483338_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/4/2003 1:36:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > Should I try to find a Singer retailer to > investigate them too? What about the White machines? Definitely forget them. Viking and Bernina are, I think, about equivalent in quality. I love my Bernina, but convenience for service is a factor. A friend has a Viking and loves it. I think today's electronic machines are very durable, so don't let that bother you. Ann Wass --part1_fe.217c0a96.2b483338_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/4/2003 1:36:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes:


Should I try to find a Singer retailer to
investigate them too? What about the White machines?


Definitely forget them.  Viking and Bernina are, I think, about equivalent in quality.  I love my Bernina, but convenience for service is a factor.  A friend has a Viking and loves it.  I think today's electronic machines are very durable, so don't let that bother you.
Ann Wass --part1_fe.217c0a96.2b483338_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 07:57:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23045 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:57:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Cx2i1010981; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 05:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Cx0CJ019430; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 05:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04CwRCJ019348 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 05:58:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from p23-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.151] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Unsb-0002nH-00; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 01:58:24 +1300 Message-ID: <002701c2b3f0$f100f550$97cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <008b01c2b3cb$7986de10$97cfadcb@michaela> <00ca01c2b3cd$409b91c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:57:57 +1300 Status: RO > Anyone who creates costumes like you do is an artist! Fashion and Costume > are both in the school of art at universities. Thank you:) But I suppose it's really that I have a different perception of art;) It might have something to do with the training I had as an actor. In a round about way;) I had no talent. Whatsoever for singing or acting. No innate ability to just do these things. It took a lot of hard work and training to get me to the point where I feel I can do a good job. What also came out of this training is a distrust of the word talent. It's used so often to mean "innate ability to do xyz". But also that it's an intangeable thing, that either you have it or not. And if you don't, you never will. I am proof that this is not the case. No one who now sees me on stage knows that I was tone deaf and that I was so awkward on stage that it was painful to watch. The word art is often used like this. So I like to use the word craft, as in craftmanship. And then if it's my original work I will say there is some art in it, if it's a recreation it's pretty much all craft;) This is sort of what I was trying to say when Nicole and I discussed recreation costumes;) The recreation doesn't offer much artitistic scope, as you already have the design there, but there is still much skill and craft to make somethng that is so recognisable. And you can be as successful or not in a recreatuon as in an original. Just different sorts of issues. And I ave just updated again;) I do actually have a good proportion of original work up there now so I feel rather better about things;) And I am still keen to do a classroom with you:) I just have to figure out what I can teach that I don't think someone else could do an infinately better job at;) michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 08:55:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23284 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:55:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04DvAi1012313; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 06:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Dv1CJ029901; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 06:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04DuXCJ029827 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 06:56:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be8f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.143]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E6FCA480734 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:56:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <00cc01c2b3f9$6d576d70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:58:57 +0100 Status: RO Hello. I think it much depends on different things, and i think that there are many oppinions. My sewing machine is a Husqvarna, i baught mine 6 years ago and it has made many costumes all ready, It still works like a dream, and i am very sattisfied with mine. No problems yeat!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 7:33 AM Subject: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine > Hi all! > > My parents are planning on buying me a sewing machine for Christmas. We > didn't have time to shop before, so it will be a late present, but we saw a > couple of machines today and I'm a little lost. > > We saw the Pfaff machines but they were bought out by Husqvarna and we're > afraid we might have trouble getting it repaired? > > Anyway, we were looking at the Select 1540 (mechanical) and the Expression > 2034 (electronic). Are any of you familiar with those machines? Those > electronic ones look very nice, but since I'm probably going to keep it for > a very long time, I want to be certain I'm choosing the right thing. > > We also saw the Viking machines, they look niftier and they're less > expensive for very similar functionalities. I'm not sure which model we were > looking at, but comparing with the Husqvarna website it might have been the > Rose model. Or maybe it was Lily. Viking machines seem to all be electronic > now. I'm pretty certain you're all going to say it's a good choice, but > aside from that, any other comments? > > So, any advice? Should I drive all the way across town (40 km) to take a > look at the Bernina machines? Should I try to find a Singer retailer to > investigate them too? What about the White machines? Do you think I should > avoid Pfaff because of the change of company ownership? > > Help? > > :-) > > And thanks a lot... > > Audrey > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 09:18:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23337 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:18:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04EK5i1013077; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04EK1CJ004763; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04EIxCJ004530 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18Up9Z-0003NQ-00; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:19:57 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18Up8a-0003PW-00; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:18:56 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: Audrey Bergeron-Morin cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:18:56 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I have a 22 year old Viking that I have always loved as well as a newer(7 year old) electronic Viking which is also great. They have both been worked very hard making Victorian gowns and have given me few problems. Got the electronic one on ebay for $500! Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 10:01:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23426 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:01:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04F3Hi1014289; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:03:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04F34CJ013393; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04F2OCJ013262 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:02:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [167.142.16.11] (HELO her1q3a26s8bng) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 234390223 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:02:23 -0600 Message-ID: <010601c2b413$090c3b10$0b108ea7@her1q3a26s8bng> From: "landofoz" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:02:16 -0800 Status: RO Most of these messages mention Viking and Husqvarna as if they are two separate companies. Is that true these days? I have a ~35 year old machine that was top-of-the-line when it was new, and it says "Viking Husqvarna" right on the front. I always assumed it was like "Hewlett Packard" i.e. a company with a two word name. Not that it matters much, I'm just curious. Oblig. Costume Content: My machine was bought by my mom who was a professional tailor and seamstress working out of our home. When I was given the machine, I set to work making casual clothes for me and my kids, as well as home decor stuff. I've made *lots* of costumes for my kids, but none of them historical. I wish I had thought to take photos of them. The best one was a muslin dinosaur head, spine ridge and tail that I attached to a green sweatsuit. I'd like to make something "historically based" for myself to use when I do spinning demonstrations. For now, I just wear my regular street clothes because spinning is also a modern hobby and I don't want people to think it's only for reinactors. There are times when something "colonial" or older would be appropriate. I just have to figure out what. Denise B. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 10:18:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23477 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:18:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04FJdi1014743; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:19:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04FILCJ016782; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:18:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04FHNCJ016556 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:17:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:15:58 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AAAE5D9F00E2; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:15:58 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:15:58 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine Message-ID: <001201c2b404$7c792c20$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <010601c2b413$090c3b10$0b108ea7@her1q3a26s8bng> X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:18:06 -0600 Status: RO Husqvarna is a Swedish company that makes, among other things, chain saws. They label their sewing machines Viking, at least in the US, because it's a more familiar word and easier to pronounce. I think their machines are made in Sweden, at least the top of the line ones. A while back, Husqvarna bought Pfaff. They continue to produce the Pfaff line separately, at a factory in eastern Europe, NOT in Germany. Another line to investigate is Janome, made in Japan. But the best machines, especially in terms of quality craftsmanship and lasting forever, are Berninas. Forget Singer, unless it's 60 years old and made of cast iron. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 10:40:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23542 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:40:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Ffqi1015711; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:41:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04FfJCJ021471; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:41:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop016.verizon.net (pop016pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04FekCJ021279 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:40:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.129.98] by pop016.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030104154040.JTOM20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.98]> for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:40:40 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at pop016.verizon.net from [192.168.129.98] at Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:40:40 -0600 Message-Id: <20030104154040.JTOM20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.98]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:40:40 -0500 Status: RO > > My point, and I do have one, is that making a garment 'from the fleece > up' isn't necessarily more authentic or generally better than a garment > made from carefully chosen and prepared machine made fabric simply > because it is > 'hand-woven', nor is making something from fleece to finished garment > particularly authentic for someone in the Middle Ages. > > > Karen > > I agree, I just objected to your original posts implying that it couldn't be done right. It can, just not by most people! I am not a spinner, but I have seen the same thing with handsewing. Handsewing is also a skill, and one that improves with use. (I have had people insist things I have handsewn were done by machine). In Civil War re-enacting it has become very popular amongst the progressive reenactors to handsew (even the garments that WERE machine sewn). Often the re-enactor does this sewing himself, and has never sewn anything by hand or machine before. It is usually very obvious that this is the case, and the finished product is not more historically accurate. Oh I have seen poorly sewn originals as well, but it was usually a case of haste (production handsewing) and not ineptitude. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 10:57:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23644 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:57:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Fx3i1016441; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Fx1CJ025358; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop016.verizon.net (pop016pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04FuQCJ024714 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 08:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.129.98] by pop016.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030104155615.JVCP20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.98]> for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:56:15 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at pop016.verizon.net from [192.168.129.98] at Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:56:15 -0600 Message-Id: <20030104155615.JVCP20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.98]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:56:15 -0500 Status: RO There is of course the lack of hand spun and woven fabric available for purchase. At work our Historic Carpenters (we have modern ones as well) hav been envolved for the last several years rebuilding a number of outbuildings. These were to be rebuilt as authentic as possible. When I say authentic here I mean not only in all the methods a carpenter uses, but in materials as well. This means a need for proper non-modern milled lumber. In area, in our period there were few sawmills, and an overabundance of cheap, often free labor, so this basically means handsawn lumber. Now in our period a carpenter does not mill his own lumber, anymore than he would today. This is unskilled labor, but the only way to get it today was to have iot done and it fell to the carpenter. Now as I mentioned a carpenter in the period would have bought the lumber, but when you view the finished structure can you tell if the carpenter purchased the wood or if he sawed it himself? You can however tell if the wood was modern milled or not. I think a lot of the "sheep to coat" concept is steeped in this. We are looking at two different goals. Is the goal to create an authentic experience, or to create an authentic artifact? Either is just as valid. In my case I want the artifact, and then seek the experience when I am wearing it! Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 11:29:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23724 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:29:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04GV4i1017459; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:31:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04GUFCJ002767; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:30:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04GT5CJ002505 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.124.3.121] (p09.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.121]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16300 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:23:56 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:02:09 -0700 Status: RO I bought the Pfaff 2020 a couple years ago and have been very happy with it. My decision to go with Pfaff was based on their inclusion of the dual feed foot, which none of the other brands had at the time. I don't know if any of them have subsequently included it. It is very useful to me for sewing some difficult to feed fabrics, like vinyls, which I use a lot in my business. I was leaning toward the Bernina but their walking foot was just not as good as the dual feed foot on the Pfaff. The one thing I don't like about the Pfaff is the buttonholer, so I always go back to my ancient Singer with a buttonhole attachment when I need to sew in buttonholes. I think other barnds have similar buttonholers. I would try them out in the store on more difficult fabrics. They always seem to work fine on easy fabrics like cottons, but I am rarely using them on easy fabrics. I wasn't aware that Pfaff was bought out by someone else. Don't know how that will affect me down the line. Sylvia Rognstad -- Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com on 1/3/03 11:33 PM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin at audreybmorin2@hotmail.com wrote: > Hi all! > > My parents are planning on buying me a sewing machine for Christmas. We > didn't have time to shop before, so it will be a late present, but we saw a > couple of machines today and I'm a little lost. > > We saw the Pfaff machines but they were bought out by Husqvarna and we're > afraid we might have trouble getting it repaired? > > Anyway, we were looking at the Select 1540 (mechanical) and the Expression > 2034 (electronic). Are any of you familiar with those machines? Those > electronic ones look very nice, but since I'm probably going to keep it for > a very long time, I want to be certain I'm choosing the right thing. > > We also saw the Viking machines, they look niftier and they're less > expensive for very similar functionalities. I'm not sure which model we were > looking at, but comparing with the Husqvarna website it might have been the > Rose model. Or maybe it was Lily. Viking machines seem to all be electronic > now. I'm pretty certain you're all going to say it's a good choice, but > aside from that, any other comments? > > So, any advice? Should I drive all the way across town (40 km) to take a > look at the Bernina machines? Should I try to find a Singer retailer to > investigate them too? What about the White machines? Do you think I should > avoid Pfaff because of the change of company ownership? > > Help? > > :-) > > And thanks a lot... > > Audrey > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 12:05:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23900 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:05:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04H71i1019180; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04H70wY012976; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04H6dwY012886 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.145] (pm5-145.eos.net [205.133.149.145]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06559 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:06:37 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030102225201.1627.31717.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bjarne's grandfather Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:01:57 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne: I like your grandfather's painting, too! I wish I could walk down that road and see where it goes. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 12:22:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23959 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:22:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HO1i1019869; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HO0wY017285; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx18.cluster1.charter.net (209-225-8-28.charter.net [209.225.8.28] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HNPwY017122 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:23:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx18.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 17620884 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:27:40 -0500 Message-ID: <01cc01c2b415$df7820e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:22:34 -0600 Status: RO I was able to go and see the Medici exhibit in Chicago this Thursday at the Art Institute. The only word I could come up with to describehow I felt after to my hsuband was "saturated". There was *so* much! A good number of portraits, but the statuary! Wow! However, after the Medici exhibit I went down to the textiles exhibit - Renaissance Silks and Velvets. *Drool* The Art Institute was exhibiting part of their collection of Renn. velvets and silks to complement the Medici exhibit. To see these up close - to see the colors, the detail of the weaving, the embroidery....well, I thought I was saturated before going down, I was overflowing after that! I asked a guard if I could photo the fabrics, and she said no one had told her no, so go ahead. I got part way through before I came into sight of the other guard, who told me no, but I found the little exhibit brochure which had photos of some of the ones that I didn't get, so that was OK. All I can say is, if you have a chance to go and see these exhibits, *do so*! Absolutely amazing. ....going to drool over the exhibit book and textile brochure again....I'll have to laminate so the paper isn't ruined :-) ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF There's no such thing as too many books! lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 12:22:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23964 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:22:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HO8i1019877; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HO8wY017329; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HNewY017204 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:23:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip91.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.91]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h04HNb412917 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:23:37 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E16A72A.19009.144BC0CB@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030104154040.JTOM20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.98]> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:19:38 -0800 Status: RO Ron wrote: > I am not a spinner, but I have seen the same thing with handsewing. > Handsewing is also a skill, and one that improves with use. (I > have had people insist things I have handsewn were done by > machine). In Civil War re-enacting it has become very popular > amongst the progressive reenactors to handsew (even the garments > that WERE machine sewn). Often the re-enactor does this sewing > himself, and has never sewn anything by hand or machine before. It > is usually very obvious that this is the case, and the finished > product is not more historically accurate. Oh I have seen poorly > sewn originals as well, but it was usually a case of haste > (production handsewing) and not ineptitude. A big "AMEN" to this one. I'd much rather see something sewn by machine than someone doing a job on their handsewing that looks like a skirt I made in gradeschool (before I had been taught how to use a sewing machine and before I had several more years of handsewing experience.) This is especially true for contests. For things where a sewing machine works (as opposed to things like cartridge pleats), I feel that it's perfectly acceptable to use a sewing machine since it does an approximation of a double running stitch. (That doesn't mean that I don't completely handsew garments for the fun of it. I do. However, I have a lot of hand impaired friends who can't do it and I make sure they know that I only do the "full handsewn" thing for fun.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 12:22:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23968 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:22:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HOCi1019897; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:24:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HOCwY017355; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:24:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HNgwY017215 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:23:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip91.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.91]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h04HNd412935 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:23:39 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E16A72A.9143.144BC2C9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030103.235249.-498575.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:19:38 -0800 Status: RO Karen wrote: > I have occasionally seen reproduction fabrics which are dead-ringers > for the medieval stuff, but MOST of the stuff one sees as hand-woven > wouldn't have been used for sacking in the Middle Ages! How true. I think your and Ron's point about the differences between hobbyists and a professional handweaver are correct. Also keep in mind that many of the handweavers (especially in the modern Handweaver Guilds) are trying for unusual things. They aren't trying to reproduce a period weave except for using the basics as a stepoff for their own ideas. > In this case a machine > spun and woven fabric which has the correct thread count and finish > would be far better for a piece of historical clothing than a handspun > and woven fabric that had the incorrect thread count and finish. It depends on whether they can get the correct spin for their machine spun threads. I've been helping a friend document something for a contest and one of the things I've done is to pick apart fabric samples looking at the weave structure and the spin type. Most of our modern threads are spun in one direction because that's what the machines are set up to do. However, if you are looking at the changeover period in terms of spindle spun and wheel spun, you won't get fabrics which look the same unless they are spindle spun. You see, wheel (and machine) spinning is all S-spun. To get some of the looks and behavior of some fabrics, it has to be a mixed spun (using one spin for the weft and the opposite spin for the warp). We don't get that now. Almost everything in the middle ages seem to have been either mixed spun or Z-spun. And it can make a difference in the finished behavior/look of the woven fabric. > I > have been spinning for 25 years and yet I will bet that there were 10 > year olds in medieval Flanders who could spin far better thread than I > can after twice as long simply because they did it every day and had a > defined set of standards they had to meet or their product wouldn't > sell. You betcha! > My point, and I do have one, is that making a garment 'from the fleece > up' isn't necessarily more authentic or generally better than a > garment made from carefully chosen and prepared machine made fabric > simply because it is 'hand-woven', nor is making something from fleece > to finished garment particularly authentic for someone in the Middle > Ages. Exactly. Where I find doing some of my own weaving/spinning/etc is most helpful is in understanding how each step from the ground up through finished garment is important to the final look of a garment. I have learned about the difference between retting methods for linen and how what a sheep eats (as well as its breed) has an effect on its wool. Before I learned about the importance of spin direction, I would have thought that it didn't matter. It's helped me understand about thread count (why a gauze is not an acceptable substitute for a tightly woven fabric of very finely spun thread for use in veils). It's helped me look for things that have a different type of calendaring than is the norm for fabrics. How laundering affects fabrics (including how dry cleaning *does* cause shrinkage no matter what some dry cleaners say). Why a sleeve works better if inserted by hand sometimes than by machine and how the change in technology from handsewn to machine sewn has changed how garments are cut. (I'm going to quit now, but I could go on with many examples.) Of course, sometimes books and talking to people who have really done the things have to substitute for parts of my education. I certainly am not going to go raising sheep just to learn one aspect. ;) In other words, trying out/learning about various processes which were used in the period I'm studying at the time help me understand things that, because of my modern upbringing, I'd otherwise not truly understand. It helps pull me out of my "modern intuition" into thinking more along the same lines as a person of the past who was steeped in their time, just as I'm steeped in modern times. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 12:23:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23975 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:23:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HP0i1019947; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HP0wY017522; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HOnwY017462 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 50020029 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:24:44 -0500 Message-ID: <01d201c2b416$1246b860$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Joan of Arc - somewhat OT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:24:00 -0600 Status: RO Somewhat OT, but I know that someone here will have an answer - can you recommend good biographies of Joan of Arc? My sister is interested, and I'm not familiar with good authors who cover this period/person. Thanks! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF There's no such thing as too many books! lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 12:26:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24001 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:26:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HS1i1020099; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HS0wY018424; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04HR5wY018155 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:27:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout07.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8700C1L9SOGO@mtaout07.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:26:50 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with knitting (WAS: RE: Problems with Crocheting) X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103110711.04046008@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:26:27 -0500 Status: RO On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:41:02 -0800, Kayta wrote: >>That sounds like the "east-crossing/west-crossing" problem. If I recall >>correctly, that sort of thing means you're either (1) wrapping the thread >>the wrong way about the needle (top to bottom instead of bottom to top, >>or the reverse) or (2) placing the needle through the loop you're purling >>through in the wrong direction (tip to base of the stitch-holding needle >>instead of base to tip, or the reverse). >That your lengthy, and probably correct, explanation doesn't make sense to >me as I read it is probably the problem. I'm ambidextrous and dyslexic. The long speculation is one of those esoteric things that might make sense to knitters who know a lot more about the art than I do. The bottom line, I think, is that if you are currently wrapping your "purl" yarn so it starts from the "front" of the needle (the side facing you) first, with the rest of the yarn trailing "behind" the needle, you need to wrap the yarn to it starts from the "back" of the needle, with the rest of the yarn trailing "in front" of the needle. If you wrap your "purl" yarn starting "behind" the needle, then you have to do the opposite: wrap it starting "in front of" the needle. I'm afraid this makes just about as little sense in words as it did the first time... and I don't know where the back copies of Knitter's magazine that had the diagrams might be (I tend to pass these all to Mom, who's the knitter, and I don't know how long she keeps them)... BTW, when it comes to knitting, I'm also ambidextrous. Makes for some crazy methods of pattern-following... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 12:44:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24048 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:44:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Hk2i1020897; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Hk1wY022444; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Hj2wY022233 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00785 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:55:53 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Joan of Arc - somewhat OT In-Reply-To: <01d201c2b416$1246b860$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:55:53 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote: > Somewhat OT, but I know that someone here will have an answer - can > you recommend good biographies of Joan of Arc? My sister is > interested, and I'm not familiar with good authors who cover this > period/person. Anything you can find by Bonnie Wheeler will be clear, solid, and interesting. I think she might have had a book out in the last couple of years. One of her specialties is Joan, and she focuses on making the material accessible to non-specialists. I know her as a colleague from Kalamazoo, and I had the pleasure once of recommending her to write an article on Joan for a popular reference book for which I was medieval content reviewer. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 13:03:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24159 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:03:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04I51i1021683; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04I50wY026740; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h04I4RwY026590 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:04:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCobaJiol6/BUPWbj/6uaZ2FX1/IRN9TPoA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMPUVNNU; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 13:04:05 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <20030104.120452.-584395.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,17-19 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:04:52 -0600 Status: RO Bravo Kat! I absolutely agree. If you follow along with my posts, you may notice that I actually DO spin wool and flax, I have worked with both from very early along in the process, I have cooked over open fires and in fireplaces, I have lived in period tents and in log cabins for notable periods of time (not as a life-style choice, but enough to get the flavor). I grow all sorts of period herbs in my garden as well as have a collection of Old Garden Roses- I've actually run out of pre-1600 roses to collect! I have hand sewn complete garments (no, not court Elizabethans, but quite a bit of my frontier 18th century stuff) and I study period dance and period movement. I firmly believe in LIVING history not as an adjective but as a verb. Sometimes things which make no sense individually make perfect sense in the correct context. But part of understanding a period is knowing what a typical person would and wouldn't know/do in a given circumstance. A badly done handwoven/sewn reproduction garment is NOT superior to a well-made machine woven/sewn- that's my point. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 13:26:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24362 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:26:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04IS1i1022533; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04IS0wY002652; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04IRXwY002511 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:27:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.d5.2135af80 (3972) for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:27:26 -0500 (EST) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d5.2135af80.2b48818e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Subject: [h-cost] Spin and impact on finished fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:27:26 EST Status: RO --part1_d5.2135af80.2b48818e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/4/2003 1:06:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kat Russell wrote: > Almost everything in the middle ages seem to have been > either mixed spun or Z-spun. And it can make a difference in the > finished behavior/look of the woven fabric. > As a non-weaver and one who has tried hard to make sense of the thread/fiber descriptions in the MOL, your statement intrigues me. I would really appreciate it if you would expand on it and explain how the different spins and combinations affect the finished fabric. Thanks, Nancy Stengel Ulmer aka Maddalena Salutati --part1_d5.2135af80.2b48818e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/4/2003 1:06:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kat Russell wrote:

Almost everything in the middle ages seem to have been
either mixed spun or Z-spun. And it can make a difference in the
finished behavior/look of the woven fabric.


As a non-weaver and one who has tried hard to make sense of the thread/fiber descriptions in the MOL, your statement intrigues me.  I would really appreciate it if you would expand on it and explain how the different spins and combinations affect the finished fabric.

Thanks,

Nancy Stengel Ulmer
aka Maddalena Salutati --part1_d5.2135af80.2b48818e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 13:46:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24437 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:46:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Im2i1023502; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Im1wY008204; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04IlOwY008051 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:47:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m136.in-tch.com [216.166.191.136]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h04IV1P19663 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:31:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E172C5E.7FD98306@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spin and impact on finished fabric References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 11:47:58 -0700 Status: RO Yeah. I've wondered that myself. About how it might change the drape, or the longevity of the garment, and why people might have done it, and what we lost, or gained, when we stopped doing it. And whether it's more prevalent in some fibers, or some cultures and times, than in others? --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 14:28:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24630 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:28:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04JU4i1025219; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04JU1wY018710; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h04JTkwY018552 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:29:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWomz6/amgffpXaBwiT6Lwpfq7lUGGn2FPw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMPZQLJQ; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:28:42 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <20030104.142805.-555631.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,13-14,19-20,23-24,34-36 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:50:57 -0500 Status: RO <<>> I do my costumes mostly for SCA, but I have a couple who are friends who play music for other periods and I make their costumes too. Although hoops are "period" for one of her times, she can't sit and play the hammered dulcimer in one so her skirts are just very full - and we know that they are not totally authentic. For myself, I know that silk velvet is the fabric of choice for a queen's gown I am making, but I can barely afford the velveteen that I got with a 50% off coupon and a $25.00 gift card at JoAnn's. Knowing what is correct makes it easier to substitute something that will look good, if not perfect. When someone tells me that the authenticity police won't notice something, I tell them I am by far the worse at noticing authenticity than anyone I know. I don't criticize other's, I just see where things are wrong. I know where mine are wrong too and cringe when someone tells me it is so perfect. We can all try to be as authentic as our research and pocketbooks will allow and we would not be able to spend ten minutes in the middle ages without being found out. Just as a note, most scholars in linguistics say the Appalachians is the place to pick up Elizabethan English, not England because of the isolation. There are a series of books called the Foxfire books that depict daily life, customs, and crafts of the region. I would expect that they are probably closer to English middle ages than most also. The region is being overrun and no where is really isolated now, but the books were written some thirty to fifty years ago and mostly from interviews with the older inhabitants. I just thought about them when this thread came up and am going to go check mine out as soon as I get off the computer. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 14:55:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24754 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:55:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Jv2i1026413; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Jv1wY025514; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h04JubwY025355 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:56:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWomz6/amgffpXdvb6hICU5eGruJwyehFkA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMP2WHQ7; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:49:25 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine Message-ID: <20030104.144828.-555631.4.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 12-13,17-18,20-22 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:48:27 -0500 Status: RO A lot depends on how much you are going to use it and what kinds of fabrics. I have a New Home that was top of the line ten years ago and is right now sitting waiting for me to get inside and adjust it again. I tried to make an American Colonial gown on it several months ago and the shear bulk of fabric at the waist got it out of whack so now it skips stitches. The good news is, I can usually fix these things myself. The bad news is, I don't have the time to fool with it right now. I also have an old Singer (301 model purchased in 1955) that I dig out every time I need something really dependable. That machine has sewn, canvas and plastic coated canvas for sports car tonneau covers down to the sheerest of chiffons. It never complains and doesn't mess up. It also has no fancy stitches without an attachment. It goes forward and backward and it does it beautifully. I have about decided that sewing machines, like anything else from cars to TVs, tend to be more reliable with less built in fancy stuff. On the other hand, I can't get enough garbage attached to my computer so I am not just an old fogey. Just my 2 cents worth (and we know what that is worth these days). Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 15:03:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24782 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:03:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04K51i1026814; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04K50wY027603; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04K4hwY027512 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:04:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.24]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8700ED5H3SCZ@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:04:42 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-reply-to: <20030104154040.JTOM20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.9 8]> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030104114817.00d5ea70@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 11:50:24 -0800 Status: RO >Handsewing is also a skill, and one that improves with use. (I have had >people insist things I have handsewn were done by machine). In Civil War >re-enacting it has become very popular amongst the progressive reenactors >to handsew (even the garments that WERE machine sewn). Often the >re-enactor does this sewing himself, and has never sewn anything by hand >or machine before. It is usually very obvious that this is the case, and >the finished product is not more historically accurate. Oh I have seen >poorly sewn originals as well, but it was usually a case of haste >(production handsewing) and not ineptitude. As it happens, I have a chain-stitch sewing machine, and I plan to make at least one ACW-period dress on it. Just to have done it. But the machine itself sews very nicely, so I might use it for other historical things as, it seems, that brand of chain-stitch machine was still being sold well into the 1900s. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 15:03:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24787 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:03:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04K58i1026826; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:05:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04K57wY027626; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04K4hwY027521 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.24]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8700ED5H3SCZ@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:04:43 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Problems with knitting (WAS: RE: Problems with Crocheting) In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103110711.04046008@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030104115508.00d5ce10@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 11:59:35 -0800 Status: RO >The bottom line, I think, is that if you are currently wrapping your >"purl" yarn so it starts from the "front" of the needle (the side facing >you) first, with the rest of the yarn trailing "behind" the needle, you >need to wrap the yarn to it starts from the "back" of the needle, with the >rest of the yarn trailing "in front" of the needle. > >If you wrap your "purl" yarn starting "behind" the needle, then you have >to do the opposite: wrap it starting "in front of" the needle. > >I'm afraid this makes just about as little sense in words as it did the >first time... BLEAH! Yes, your're right - I can't make any more sense of this than I could of the other. But mostly I don't knit, as mostly I do periods where I can crochet, which I prefer to do. I only learned to knit sox for Ren. purposes. >BTW, when it comes to knitting, I'm also ambidextrous. Makes for some >crazy methods of pattern-following... I never follow written patterns unless I have to. If the pictures aren't good, I'm usually lost. I only stumble thru the written directions if the source is historical and it's the only one. The Ondori books, from Japan, are great, as they have numerous step-by-step pictures, symbol representations, and no English text. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 15:03:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24791 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:03:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04K5Bi1026840; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04K5BwY027646; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04K4iwY027531 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.24]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8700ED5H3SCZ@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:04:44 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-reply-to: <20030104.142805.-555631.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030104120200.00d5d530@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:04:34 -0800 Status: RO > Just as a note, most scholars in linguistics say the Appalachians >is the place to pick up Elizabethan English, not England because of the >isolation. There are a series of books called the Foxfire books that >depict daily life, customs, and crafts of the region. I would expect >that they are probably closer to English middle ages than most also. The >region is being overrun and no where is really isolated now, but the >books were written some thirty to fifty years ago and mostly from >interviews with the older inhabitants. I just thought about them when >this thread came up and am going to go check mine out as soon as I get >off the computer. Tiny bone to pick. Let us all remember that the 'Current Middle Ages'. of the SCA includes many periods that are to one or the other side of the actual Middle Ages. For example, my Ren. stuff, while being SCA period, is not from the Middle Ages that any scholar would recognize as such. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 15:10:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24817 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:10:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04KC2i1027126; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04KC1wY029355; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21205.mail.yahoo.com (web21205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h04KBCwY029159 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:11:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030104201112.8878.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.252.64.5] by web21205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 20:11:12 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030104114817.00d5ea70@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] ACW sewing machines Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:11:12 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows > As it happens, I have a chain-stitch sewing machine, > and I plan to make at > least one ACW-period dress on it. Just to have done > it. But the machine > itself sews very nicely, so I might use it for other > historical things as, > it seems, that brand of chain-stitch machine was > still being sold well into > the 1900s. Hang on a sec.... I'd found out that sewing machines existed in the ACW period, and breathed a sigh of relief (an ACW costume being my main project for the coming year). Do I gather from this that they *didn't* do the "standard" double running stitch that my machine does, but a chain stitch instead? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 15:23:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24839 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:23:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04KP2i1027586; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04KP0wY002611; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h04KOOwY002460 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:24:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWomz6/amgffp+I2IfawfPZOFeSRJ91taaQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMP4UQ4W; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:23:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,12-13,17-19 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:22:37 -0500 Status: RO <<>> Not such a tiny bone actually. You are absolutely right and the Appalachians was considered a good example of Elizabethan English which is actually a bit past the period I usually do too. But I did think that the crafts in the Foxfire books might just be a bit closer to that period than anything else we are going to find. The people that put them together were just trying to preserve the Appalachian way of life in print before it was gobbled up by the modern world (which it has pretty much done since they were written). Thanks - I do tend to get frustrated by the long period covered by the SCA. It is difficult to try to represent a 14th century lady when talking with an Elizabethan. I would be more comfortable talking to my great grandmother from the American Civil War period. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 15:31:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24862 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:31:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04KX2i1027973; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04KX0wY004556; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.pacifier.com (mailroute2.pacifier.com [216.65.128.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04KW6wY004226 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by monsoon.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h04Jo5b13671 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from grendal2 (ip196.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.196]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h04Jn5426053 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:49:05 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spin and impact on finished fabric Message-ID: <3E16C930.18154.14D0AC49@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 11:44:48 -0800 Status: RO > In a message dated 1/4/2003 1:06:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kat > Russell wrote: > > > Almost everything in the middle ages seem to have been > > either mixed spun or Z-spun. And it can make a difference in the > > finished behavior/look of the woven fabric. > > > > As a non-weaver and one who has tried hard to make sense of the > thread/fiber descriptions in the MOL, your statement intrigues me. I > would really appreciate it if you would expand on it and explain how > the different spins and combinations affect the finished fabric. You can make some of your own examples for this without even using thread. That's because the light bounces differently off of things with different orientations. Take paper and make diagonal lines on it. Make another set with the diagonal lines in the "opposite" direction (so that one set is like the keyboard slash, and the other set like the keyboard backslash). Cut it into strips and lay them side by side alternating slash and backslash types. You can see the difference in pattern compared to when you line up a set of only slashes or only backslashes. (And just turning a "slash" 180 degrees doesn't turn it into a "backslash". That's why twill fabrics can be difficult to match at the center front if you are trying for a chevron look. You actually have to have one fabric inside out compared to the other to get that.) Next, try making a "basket" by weaving them evenly using slash in one direction and backslash in another direction. Then try it using only slash in both directions. Then try doing the same thing with using a twill weave. (Look it up in the MOL book for how the pattern lays out. I'm afraid I can't verbally explain it well enough.) What you see is that they look very different. As for some of the other things like drape, that's harder to demonstrate. However, when you have a woolen cloth of mixed spin, the spins "interact" in a way that makes them stick together more, so that the fulling process gives a denser matt (especially *between* the threads) than it would if you were using only S-spun or only Z- spun fabric. If the matt is denser, then it drapes different and has a different hand. The finish will also be different, and with the mixed spun thread, it tends to be more durable so that it stands up to the napping (aka striking aka teaseling) process better than something that is not a mixed spun fabric. I hope that helps explain how it can make a difference. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 16:58:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25261 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:58:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04M03i1002168; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04M01wY025906; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04Lx2wY025590 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04M1hmm017037 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:01:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3E175983.2020509@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What'd you get for Christmas? References: <3.0.6.32.20021226135728.0086abf0@pop.directcon.net> <3E0B919A.90808@misc.com> <3E0B989D.AF8C432A@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:00:35 -0800 Status: RO To Fran- At Norman Bernie's, in Burlingame, on Rollins Road. He's a fabric warehouse, mostly for home decorating but very adaptable to historical garb. Sometimes, he'll be carrying the same textile, at the same time, that Calico Corners has, but at better prices. My "present" was on the second floor, on the left hand wall, closest to the doorway. Good luck!!! (wouldn't that be funny if we both ended up at the same event, wearing different styles of the same fabric?) Theresa Eacker Lavolta Press wrote: > > Theresa Eacker wrote: > > >>6 yards of silk plaid taffeta, in autumn tones, embroidered with golden >>brown sprays of wheat heads, destined for a Regency ball gown, if I can >>bring myself to actually cut into it. It's beautiful enough to just frame!! >> > > Where was it purchased? (That is, how can I buy some?) > > Fran > > > -- > --------------------------------------------- > Visit our web pages! > Books on historic costume and vintage clothes > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and vintage dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 17:07:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25344 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:07:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04M91i1002522; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04M90wY027875; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04M8fwY027795 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:08:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04MBLmm017064 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:11:22 -0800 Message-ID: <3E175BC5.90307@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago References: <01cc01c2b415$df7820e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:10:13 -0800 Status: RO WHHHHIIINE!!!! My husband won't let me hop on a plane and "pop" over to Chicago (from California) to see these lovely sounding exhibits. Do you know if the museum has exhibit catalogs for either of these shows (especially the textiles one)? Or, could you post the URL so I could go pester the museum staff myself? You're so fortunate to have been able to view these things personally. The SF Legion of Honor got the British Museum's Egyptian collection, which was wonderful, but no textiles, per se. Theresa Eacker lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote:(Prunings) > I was able to go and see the Medici exhibit in Chicago this Thursday at the > Art Institute...There was *so* much! A good number of > portraits, but the statuary! Wow! > > However, after the Medici exhibit I went down to the textiles exhibit - > Renaissance Silks and Velvets. *Drool* The Art Institute was exhibiting part > of their collection of Renn. velvets and silks to complement the Medici > exhibit. To see these up close - to see the colors, the detail of the > weaving, the embroidery....well, I thought I was saturated before going > down, _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 18:24:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25753 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:24:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04NQ3i1005492; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04NQ0wY017431; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04NPJwY017208 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h04NwQaB032079; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:58:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h04NwPGG032076; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:58:25 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Lalah T Tillinghast Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301041858.25364.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h04NPJwY017208 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:58:25 -0500 Status: RO On Saturday 04 January 2003 03:22 pm, Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > << Ages'. of > the SCA includes many periods that are to one or the other side of the > actual Middle Ages.>>> > > Not such a tiny bone actually. You are absolutely right and the > Appalachians was considered a good example of Elizabethan English which > is actually a bit past the period I usually do too. But I did think that > the crafts in the Foxfire books might just be a bit closer to that period > than anything else we are going to find. The people that put them > together were just trying to preserve the Appalachian way of life in > print before it was gobbled up by the modern world (which it has pretty > much done since they were written). > > Thanks - I do tend to get frustrated by the long period covered > by the SCA. It is difficult to try to represent a 14th century lady when > talking with an Elizabethan. I would be more comfortable talking to my > great grandmother from the American Civil War period. > Which illustrates my opinion about the SCA. The SCA doesn't do "living history". Instead, its members pick and choose among the living history types of activity they favor (period clothing, cooking, fighting, etc.) and focus just on those, in the period/s in which they are interested. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 18:24:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25757 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:24:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04NQQi1005523; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04NQQwY017502; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f170.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.170]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h04NPYwY017272 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:25:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:18:25 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 23:18:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bjarne's grandfather Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2003 23:18:25.0998 (UTC) FILETIME=[9547BEE0:01C2B447] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:18:25 -0800 Status: RO I wish I could walk down that road >and see where it goes. > That is exactly how I felt when I looked at it. Gail just found the words. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 19:21:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25968 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:21:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050N3i1008320; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050N1wY001932; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail6.kc.rr.com (fe6.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050MKwY001818 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:22:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail6.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:20:36 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030104182238.00a158c0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlibrary loan In-Reply-To: <3E161410.47914801@earthlink.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030102225059.009ffec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 18:25:23 -0600 Status: RO Access to the OCLC FirstSearch database is a free service of our library. It's not available from our web site, but anyone who walks into one of our branches can use it ... and ProQuest ... and InfoTrac ... and ... Sheryl At 04:52 PM 1/3/03 -0600, you wrote: >Sheryl Nance-Durst wrote: > > > Email me the list of the books and I can look them up on OCLC > > (a major ILL network available to libraries). If it's in there, > > I can email you with the info, then you take it to your local library > > and request it. > > > > Sheryl Nance-Durst > > [Who loves being a librarian - it supports her book habit] > >Dangerous, Dangerous! :) One of my local libraries gives patrons >on-line access to the OCLC. Now I can come up with lots of requests to >keep my ILL librarian happy. She actually pouts if I show up without >any requests. > >--Charlene _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 19:24:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25981 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:24:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050Q1i1008417; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050Q0wY002658; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail5.kc.rr.com (fe5.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050PmwY002587 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:25:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail5.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:19:56 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030104182620.009feec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlibrary loan In-Reply-To: <200301021555.h02FtLVt076713@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h050PmwY002587 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 18:28:50 -0600 Status: RO Heather, Did a quick search & here's what I came up with for Worth: The age of Worth: Couturier to the Empress Eugénie. Edith Saunders Worth : father of haute couture / Diana De Marly The opulent era : fashions of Worth, Doucet and Pingat / Elizabeth A Coleman (This one will make you drool on the pages!) The House of Worth fashion designs : a photographic record. Victoria and Albert Museum. Hope these help. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 07:55 AM 1/2/03 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone (Kendra?) know where a good starter guide to using >interlibrary loan is online? I'd really like to try to find copies >of some of the out of print books on Worth, since I'm going to be >creating an 1880s dress in his style for class this year. > >.heather. > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 19:35:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26027 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:35:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050b2i1008849; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050b1wY005194; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tyler.snap.net.nz (tyler.snap.net.nz [202.37.101.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050aYwY005073 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:36:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from p124-dialup.snap.net.nz ([203.97.31.124] helo=ajax) by tyler.snap.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 ) id 18UymB-0002ZS-00 for ; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 13:36:27 +1300 Received: from libre ([192.168.255.21]) by ajax with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 18Uyop-0006sx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 13:39:11 +1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jennifer Geard To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <3E16A72A.9143.144BC2C9@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3E16A72A.9143.144BC2C9@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301051333.18033.geard@verso.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h050aYwY005073 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:33:18 +1300 Status: RO Hi All, I'm following the authenticity discussion with interest. Kat wrote: > However, if you are looking at the > changeover period in terms of spindle spun and wheel spun, you won't > get fabrics which look the same unless they are spindle spun. You > see, wheel (and machine) spinning is all S-spun. Kat, could you clarify whether you mean that medieval spinning on the great wheel was S-spun? In the woven cloths you're describing, are all the threads singles, or is there a plied warp and a singles weft? Modern spinning-wheel spinning can be either S-spun or Z-spun. It depends entirely on the direction the spinner starts the wheel turning, and can be a trap for new spinners if they forget and change direction after a break. The Luttrell Psalter spinning wheel looks like it could be used in either direction as well, depending on whethere the spinster turned the wheel clockwise or anti-clockwise. Modern commercial spinning is another matter entirely, I was just surprised to see the comment about wheel-spinning. Note that the ability to spin in both directions is important because when plying wool -- spinning two or more single threads together to form a stronger yarn -- you spin in the opposite direction to the twist of the singles. If it's the convention in your part of the world to spin singles on the wheel with S-twist, than you'd ply them with Z-twist. This balances the yarn, releasing some of the twist so the fibre's not trying to curl up into little bobbles. Direction of spin is particularly important in shadow weaves, which have stripes made from bands of S- and Z-twisted threads. Although they're the same colour, the light reflects on them differently, giving subtle variation. Margrethe Hald's "Ancient Danish textiles from bogs and burials" has a fair amount of discussion of twist -- including mixed twist -- in her chapters on raw-materials-and-spinning, dating weaves and looms-and-fabrics. The fabrics she examines seem to have all the combinations of twists, although some are preferred at different times. If you want to be really nit-picky, you can take some advice Carolyn Priest-Dorman gave me a decade ago and use the direction of spin to make continuous-twist tablet-weaving more even. The twist of the tablets during weaving is itself a form of plying, so by matching the twist of the threads to the twist of the cards you'll avoid having some cards that produce puffy (balanced twist) weaving while others produce tight (over-twist) weaving. A couple of idle thoughts on sheep-to-shawl vs segmented stages of production. In Viking-age Scandinavia, the economy seems to have been largely based on homespun woollen fabric. I would guess/expect -- and could be proven wrong -- that the everyday clothing of the people may indeed have been shorn, spun, woven, finished, dyed, cut and sewn within the household. I also get the impression that desirable fabrics were those which had been imported (however acquired) and which used fibres or dyes which were not generally available to the household. This might be one of the differences between the Greenland gowns, which seem to be the sheep-to-shawl products of isolation, and the gear of those with easier contact with markets. With increasing urbanisation and trade specialisation, you'd get to the point where anyone who could afford to would purchase cloth made by specialists. I have no problem with the idea of purchasing appropriate cloth for costuming. I do think it's difficult -- sometimes not possible -- to find commercial cloths that match some historical types of cloths, and that's where you get to the question of how a low-thread-count handwoven broken-lozenge twill stacks up against a plain commercial twill. Part of it's about the finished products, but part of it's also a strategic choice about encouraging early attempts if the attempter is the sort of person who might go on to produce really good stuff down the line. A lot of it is about education: rediscovering and transmitting knowledge which would have been passed on in a lengthy and comprehensive apprenticeship. It's a long-term issue for many living history groups. Cheers, Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 19:58:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26095 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:58:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05102i1009686; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05101wY010269; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h050xXwY010148 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:59:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f87.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.135]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A6F652629AC for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:59:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c2b456$161c3650$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 02:02:14 +0100 Status: RO Hello! We had a disgussion back in time about wheel farthingales, weather they were used or they used hip bolsters (french farthingales) Then i found this quotation tonight in Norah Waughs book The Cut of Womens Clothes. Venetian Callendar 1617 Queen Anne - Her Majesty's costume was pink and gold with so expansive a farthingale that I do not exaggerate when I say it was four feet wide in the hips. Her bosom was bare down to the pit of the stomach, forming as if it were an oval. Her head dress, besides very valuable diamonds and other jewels, consisted of such a quantity of false hair dressed in rays that she looked exactly like a sun flower. How about that!!! Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 20:04:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26115 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:04:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05161i1009984; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05160wY011732; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0515pwY011675 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:05:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from default.verizon.net ([151.199.138.210]) by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030105010545.QPBW8458.out010.verizon.net@default.verizon.net> for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:05:45 -0600 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030104195035.00a385c0@mail.verizon.net> X-Sender: vze2brpf@mail.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030104120200.00d5d530@mail.frys.com> References: <20030104.142805.-555631.1.catpurson@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 20:01:20 -0500 Status: RO At 12:04 PM 1/4/03 -0800, you wrote: >> Just as a note, most scholars in linguistics say the Appalachians >>is the place to pick up Elizabethan English, not England because of the >>isolation. There are a series of books called the Foxfire books that >>depict daily life, customs, and crafts of the region. I would expect >>that they are probably closer to English middle ages than most also. The >>region is being overrun and no where is really isolated now, but the >>books were written some thirty to fifty years ago and mostly from >>interviews with the older inhabitants. I just thought about them when >>this thread came up and am going to go check mine out as soon as I get >>off the computer. Actually there is a lot of disagreement amongst Linguistic Scholars on this subject. Some have said the Appalachians, others have said Tangier Island, yet another group states it is North Carolina and not Virginia at all. Understanding of the Cultural and historical makeup of the Appalachians throws even more doubt into the mix. The Appalachians were not settled by Europeans until long after Elizabeth had died, in fact two James and a Charles were gone by then. Lastly the Appalachians were settled by a very large number of non-English which must have affected the language. Germans, Scots-Irish and even French Hugenots could all be found living in the mountains, all bringing their own dialects and languages. >__________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Ron Carnegie r.carnegie@verizon.net ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 20:06:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26123 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:06:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05181i1010066; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05181wY012180; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0517CwY011992 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.102] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A3B03BB01F8; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 20:00:32 -0500 Message-ID: <009301c2b457$328f4600$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20030103183524.05120c60@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:56:33 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder > > >Something that Apollonia just wrote brought up an issue that I have long > >been pondering. She mentioned that everyone can be more authentic than > >they are, but she didn't want to shear her own sheep. > > Call me a city girl. I carefully picked an SCA period, geographic > location, and social station, where I was certain my persona wouldn't have > had to shear her own sheep or spin or weave. I chose to have my persona > live in Nuremburg in the mid-1500s, where, if one had money, one could buy > almost anything (who ever wove the velvet for their own dresses???). So at > SCA events I have a persona who didn't have to cook the food I cooked for > her, doesn't have to sew the dresses I sewed for her, didn't have to build > the furniture I built for her, and can spend her time doing the things I > would rather be doing, like embroidery. She eats with a fork too, someone > having brought her one from Italy as a gift. > > Other people, like Heather Rose Jones, love to do the spinning and weaving > thing, and picked their personae accordingly. I think she grew some flax > once, to experience making linen fabric from it. > > But I agree that everyone could be more authentic than they are now. Most > of us chose to learn what authentic is, then decide how much of our > knowledge we will put into practice. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 20:53:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26182 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:53:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h051t2i1011882; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h051t1wY022978; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h051sqwY022911 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:54:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from GENTEELARTS (user11.net262.oh.sprint-hsd.net [208.17.70.11]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA05937 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:54:47 -0600 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] ACW sewing machines Message-ID: <000201c2b45d$6989ec40$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20030104201112.8878.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:54:40 -0500 Status: RO Both lockstitch and chain stitch machines were available during the Civil War era and both types had been in use for some time. There were also a number of accessories and specialized presser feet in use during the era. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies of the 1860s Conference, March 7-9, 2003 Jane wrote: Hang on a sec.... I'd found out that sewing machines existed in the ACW period, and breathed a sigh of relief (an ACW costume being my main project for the coming year). Do I gather from this that they *didn't* do the "standard" double running stitch that my machine does, but a chain stitch instead? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 22:24:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26448 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:24:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h053Q5i1015418; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:26:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h053Q0wY013814; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h053PNwY013647 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:25:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil1037.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.136.37]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h053PPU7010242 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:25:26 -0500 Message-ID: <3E17A66D.1545DEE9@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Joan of Arc - somewhat OT References: <01d201c2b416$1246b860$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 22:28:45 -0500 Status: RO Hi. Another book that I have recently read on the subject is Marina Warner's Joan of Arc; The Image of Female Heroism 1981 Univ. of Calif. Press ISBN 0-520-22464-7. Good Luck, Mike T. > Somewhat OT, but I know that someone here will have an answer - can you > recommend good biographies of Joan of Arc? My sister is interested, and I'm > not familiar with good authors who cover this period/person. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 4 23:03:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26562 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:03:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05453i1016819; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05452wY021931; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx11.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx11.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0544AwY021709 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:04:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx11.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 20550819 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jan 2003 23:04:04 -0500 Message-ID: <01de01c2b46f$5eac12a0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <01cc01c2b415$df7820e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> <3E175BC5.90307@misc.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:03:13 -0600 Status: RO The web address for the Art Institute is www.artic.edu There was a large exhibit catalogue (which was $60) for the Medici exhibit. This was, of course, rather extensive, with lots of stuff that was only shown in Florence or Detroit. Definitely drool-worthy. The textiles exhibit just had a small brochure at the entrance of their room, which was free. I imagine they would be able to send you one of those. The colors don't always come out right in the photos for the brochure. In one example, the photo shows a blue acanthus motif on a yellow background, but the background is actually a rather, um, *interesting* shade of green, not quite chartruese, perhaps a bit more olive than that? Anyhow, the photos are still gorgeous! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF There's no such thing as too many books! lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Theresa Eacker" To: Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago > WHHHHIIINE!!!! My husband won't let me hop on a plane and "pop" over to > Chicago (from California) to see these lovely sounding exhibits. Do you > know if the museum has exhibit catalogs for either of these shows > (especially the textiles one)? Or, could you post the URL so I could go > pester the museum staff myself? > > You're so fortunate to have been able to view these things personally. > The SF Legion of Honor got the British Museum's Egyptian collection, > which was wonderful, but no textiles, per se. > > Theresa Eacker > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 00:35:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26747 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 00:35:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h055b4i1021188; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h055b1wY013062; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h055aIwY012942 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:36:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip64.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.64]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h055aE005698 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:36:14 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E16A72A.9143.144BC2C9@localhost> In-reply-to: <200301051333.18033.geard@verso.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 21:31:16 -0800 Status: RO > I wrote: > > However, if you are looking at the > > changeover period in terms of spindle spun and wheel spun, you won't > > get fabrics which look the same unless they are spindle spun. You > > see, wheel (and machine) spinning is all S-spun. Now I'm getting myself confused. According to the MOL books, most early wheel spun is done S. Certainly the pieces of modern woolens seem to be S-spun. However, other books seem to say that Z-spun is more common. > Kat, could you clarify whether you mean that medieval spinning on the > great wheel was S-spun? >From what I've read, clockwise spun. While they could be done in the opposite spin, there was apparently a tendency to spin only clockwise. Even with modern wheels, many are set up to be used for spinning in only one direction. It's awkward to use it in the opposite direction or the mechanism doesn't work quite right (depending on the type.) >In the woven cloths you're describing, are all > the threads singles, or is there a plied warp and a singles weft? >From Geijer to Hald to the MOL books, I can't find any mention of plied warps in the threads they've examined from the medieval period. (Not to say plied threads were never used, but they talk about S- spin/Z-spun threads not S-plied/Z-plied threads. If I've missed it, please tell me the page numbers where it is found.) > Modern spinning-wheel spinning can be either S-spun or Z-spun. It > depends entirely on the direction the spinner starts the wheel > turning, and can be a trap for new spinners if they forget and change > direction after a break. The Luttrell Psalter spinning wheel looks > like it could be used in either direction as well, depending on > whethere the spinster turned the wheel clockwise or anti-clockwise. > Modern commercial spinning is another matter entirely, I was just > surprised to see the comment about wheel-spinning. It really depends on your wheel. Some are only done from the R side turning clockwise. Some are set up done from the L side, but still clockwise. Some work doing clockwise or counterclockwise depending on how you set up the fly. (Spindles are much easier in some ways. You can do it either way depending on your mood at the moment you begin the spinning.) > Note that the ability to spin in both directions is important because > when plying wool -- spinning two or more single threads together to > form a stronger yarn -- you spin in the opposite direction to the > twist of the singles. If it's the convention in your part of the world > to spin singles on the wheel with S-twist, than you'd ply them with > Z-twist. This balances the yarn, releasing some of the twist so the > fibre's not trying to curl up into little bobbles. It's interesting because it looks like many areas have conventions depending on the type of bast fibre they started spinning with spindles. If you spin linen the way you would hemp, it goes "against the grain" of the fibre. With wool it can be spun either way, but the conventions usually follow the predominant bast type. > Direction of spin is particularly important in shadow weaves, which > have stripes made from bands of S- and Z-twisted threads. Although > they're the same colour, the light reflects on them differently, > giving subtle variation. Margrethe Hald's "Ancient Danish textiles > from bogs and burials" has a fair amount of discussion of twist -- > including mixed twist -- in her chapters on > raw-materials-and-spinning, dating weaves and looms-and-fabrics. The > fabrics she examines seem to have all the combinations of twists, > although some are preferred at different times. In the Hald book she talks about a 5th method found in the textiles, using mixed spinning in warp and weft (as opposed to all S, all Z, S warp/Z weft or Z warp/S weft.) I don't, however, get the impression that the mixed spinning warps/wefts were done with plied threads, but still singles. (When she does mention plied threads she writes it as S-plied as opposed to S-spun and Z-plied as opposed to Z-spun. See page 127.) She also discusses how the twist of the fibre can make a pattern which is nearly as obvious to the eye as using dyed threads. Beautiful stuff (even if it is just fragments. I always imagine what it is that the garment or item it came from looked like.) > If you want to be really nit-picky, you can take some advice Carolyn > Priest-Dorman gave me a decade ago and use the direction of spin to > make continuous-twist tablet-weaving more even. The twist of the > tablets during weaving is itself a form of plying, so by matching the > twist of the threads to the twist of the cards you'll avoid having > some cards that produce puffy (balanced twist) weaving while others > produce tight (over-twist) weaving. Yep. But getting commercially spun threads of the opposite spin is a pain. ;) (I guess this is a time when you have to spin your own or pay someone to spin it for you.) > A couple of idle thoughts on sheep-to-shawl vs segmented stages of > production. In Viking-age Scandinavia, the economy seems to have been > largely based on homespun woollen fabric. I would guess/expect -- and > could be proven wrong -- that the everyday clothing of the people may > indeed have been shorn, spun, woven, finished, dyed, cut and sewn > within the household. I also get the impression that desirable fabrics > were those which had been imported (however acquired) and which used > fibres or dyes which were not generally available to the household. > This might be one of the differences between the Greenland gowns, > which seem to be the sheep-to-shawl products of isolation, and the > gear of those with easier contact with markets. With increasing > urbanisation and trade specialisation, you'd get to the point where > anyone who could afford to would purchase cloth made by specialists. I think you're right about this. > I have no problem with the idea of purchasing appropriate cloth for > costuming. I do think it's difficult -- sometimes not possible -- to > find commercial cloths that match some historical types of cloths, and > that's where you get to the question of how a low-thread-count > handwoven broken-lozenge twill stacks up against a plain commercial > twill. Part of it's about the finished products, but part of it's also > a strategic choice about encouraging early attempts if the attempter > is the sort of person who might go on to produce really good stuff > down the line. A lot of it is about education: rediscovering and > transmitting knowledge which would have been passed on in a lengthy > and comprehensive apprenticeship. It's a long-term issue for many > living history groups. Exactly. And it also depends on how much you want to do the other things. For example, I like to handsew, I like pattern making and I like to research. I've tried spinning, weaving, etc (and I've done a lot of dyeing), but I'd much rather actually make a garment than put my effort into making the fabric to make the garment. Also, I figure that I'd be using bought, finished fabrics anyway, not producing them myself. (Not a subsistence kind of gal.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 01:32:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26863 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:32:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h056Y8i1024076; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:34:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h056Y1wY024505; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h056XnwY024435 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:33:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0576caB000712; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 02:06:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0576cWb000710; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 02:06:38 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, kat@grendal.rain.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <3E16A72A.9143.144BC2C9@localhost> <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301050206.38024.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h056XnwY024435 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 02:06:38 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 05 January 2003 12:31 am, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > I wrote: > > > However, if you are looking at the > > > changeover period in terms of spindle spun and wheel spun, you won't > > > get fabrics which look the same unless they are spindle spun. You > > > see, wheel (and machine) spinning is all S-spun. > > Now I'm getting myself confused. According to the MOL books, most > early wheel spun is done S. Certainly the pieces of modern woolens > seem to be S-spun. However, other books seem to say that Z-spun is > more common. I thought that it varied by fiber, with wool more likely to be S-spun, flax (linen) to be Z-spun. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 02:19:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26985 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 02:19:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h057L3i1026729; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 00:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h057L0wY004467; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 00:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21203.mail.yahoo.com (web21203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h057KdwY004401 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 00:20:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030105072038.43532.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.252.64.5] by web21203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 07:20:38 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] ACW sewing machines To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000201c2b45d$6989ec40$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 07:20:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Carolann Schmitt wrote: > Both lockstitch and chain stitch machines were > available during the Civil > War era and both types had been in use for some > time. There were also a > number of accessories and specialized presser feet > in use during the era. Phew! Thanks for that. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 08:34:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28298 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 08:34:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05DaCi1007792; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 06:36:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Da6wY007477; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 06:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05DX3wY006847 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 06:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VAti-00078w-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 05:33:02 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Message-ID: <000e01c2b4bf$03933f10$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000701c2b456$161c3650$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 06:33:20 -0700 Status: RO There is a picture (photograph) in 20,000 years of fashion (page 377 in my edition) of a woman with being dressed during a fitting. She has a farthingale on so large that the people dressing her are putting her gown on over her head with sticks, so as not to step on her 'cage'!! Of course this is a later period (1865), but I would guess the farthingale is 10-12 feet in diameter. That would make it about 4 feet wide at the hips! The dressers are standing on chairs. Also interesting is the exposed bust! I know we've talked about it before, but wow! Do you suppose they mean really bare, or just not covered with the gown itself?? I have somewhere in my notes (too lazy to go look) of an Elizabethan engraving with someone's bust exposed at picnic! That is one way to cool off. Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews >Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:02 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! > >Hello! >We had a disgussion back in time about wheel farthingales, weather they were >used or they used hip bolsters (french farthingales) >Then i found this quotation tonight in Norah Waughs book The Cut of Womens >Clothes. > >Venetian Callendar 1617 > Queen Anne - Her Majesty's costume was pink and gold with so expansive a >farthingale that I do not exaggerate when I say it was four feet wide in the >hips. Her bosom was bare down to the pit of the stomach, forming as if it >were an oval. Her head dress, besides very valuable diamonds and other >jewels, consisted of such a quantity of false hair dressed in rays that she >looked exactly like a sun flower. >How about that!!! > > > Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 09:36:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28454 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:36:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05EcGi1009793; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 07:38:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Ec7wY019174; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 07:38:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from joplin.siteprotect.com (joplin.siteprotect.com [64.26.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Eb4wY018927 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 07:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from GENTEELARTS (user11.net262.oh.sprint-hsd.net [208.17.70.11]) by joplin.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA13788 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 08:36:59 -0600 From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Message-ID: <001901c2b4c7$e4af71f0$6401a8c0@GENTEELARTS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <000e01c2b4bf$03933f10$6601a8c0@mycomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:36:53 -0500 Status: RO IMHO, this photograph is staged. I've not found any evidence that this crinoline was intended to be worn anywhere other than in this photograph (and I've been looking for 30+ years). I don't know whether this enormous crinoline was created to be used as a form of publicity for the manufacturer or as a piece of satire, but I seriously doubt it was ever worn outside that room. The photo in the book has been cropped from its original size. In the lower right hand corner you can see a "normal-sized" crinoline lying on the floor, and in the full photo other regular sized crinolines can be seen. Satirical cartoons and photographs of exaggerated crinolines are quite common during this period - great to look and laugh at, but not really reliable documentation. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies of the 1860s Conference, March 7-9, 2003 <> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 11:00:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28759 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:00:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05G26i1013262; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:02:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05G21wY004864; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05G1YwY004798 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:01:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip26.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.26]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h05G1V002403 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 08:01:31 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E17E50A.21793.1925A233@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> In-reply-to: <200301050206.38024.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 07:55:54 -0800 Status: RO Cathy wrote: > I thought that it varied by fiber, with wool more likely to be S-spun, > flax (linen) to be Z-spun. It varies by vegetable fibre (such as linen, ramie, hemp, nettle) because plants have their own "direction of spin", but the wool can be spun either direction. (With the most common direction varying based on factors like the introduction of new technology such as the wheel and what the predominant vegetable fibre is for that area.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 11:01:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28771 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:01:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05G2oi1013290; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:02:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05G2mwY005010; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:02:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05G1awY004805 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:01:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip26.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.26]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h05G1X002407 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 08:01:34 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Message-ID: <3E17E509.128.19259E6E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000e01c2b4bf$03933f10$6601a8c0@mycomputer> References: <000701c2b456$161c3650$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 07:55:53 -0800 Status: RO > Also interesting is the exposed bust! I know we've talked about it > before, but wow! Do you suppose they mean really bare, or just not > covered with the gown itself?? I have somewhere in my notes (too lazy > to go look) of an Elizabethan engraving with someone's bust exposed at > picnic! That is one way to cool off. You can thank our Victorian ancestors that there are not very many portrait or other information about that. If you look at some of the portraits from the late Elizabethan and Jacobean time you can see these fantasticly low necklines. Most people who know about female breast position/anatomy wonder how they could possibly get them into that low a neckline without exposing the nipples. The answer is that they didn't. However, if you examine the paintings with methods which show the underlying paint layers (such as IR and xray) you find that those nipples are "present and accounted for". Woodcuts faired even more poorly. Except for the ones like you mention above (I've also seen one of a very proper lady serving her family and the visiting minister at dinner), most of the engraving/woodcuts have very odd scratchings over that area, courtesy of their prudish descendants. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 11:25:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00516 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:25:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05GR4i1014420; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05GR1wY010059; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41008.mail.yahoo.com (web41008.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h05GQawY009905 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:26:41 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030105162625.90383.qmail@web41008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [158.125.1.23] by web41008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 08:26:25 PST From: Tania Gruning To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E17E50A.21793.1925A233@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-715947267-1041783985=:89546" Subject: [h-cost] spinning Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 08:26:25 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-715947267-1041783985=:89546 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have been following the authenticity discussion and I have gotten the inclination to try an learn how to spin. As I have very little space it will have to be on a spindle and since I break out from lanolin, I have to do linen. My question. Is it best to start with a teacher? Where can you get hold of linen line? And Bjarne. Where in Denmark can you get hold of bobbinlace making supplies? Tania --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-715947267-1041783985=:89546 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I have been following the authenticity discussion and I have gotten the inclination to try an learn how to spin. As I have very little space it will have to be on a spindle and since I break out from lanolin, I have to do linen.

My question. Is it best to start with a teacher? Where can you get hold of linen line?

And Bjarne. Where in Denmark can you get hold of bobbinlace making supplies?

Tania


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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-715947267-1041783985=:89546-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 11:40:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00633 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:40:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Gg6i1014897; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Gg03V013243; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Gf13V013050 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:37:26 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] spinning Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2B4A7.8ABAC7F0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 In-Reply-To: <20030105162625.90383.qmail@web41008.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:45:19 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2B4A7.8ABAC7F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You could try cotton. Also, llama wool is lanolin-free, soft, and very beautiful... Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Tania Gruning Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:26 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] spinning I have been following the authenticity discussion and I have gotten the inclination to try an learn how to spin. As I have very little space it will have to be on a spindle and since I break out from lanolin, I have to do linen. My question. Is it best to start with a teacher? Where can you get hold of linen line? And Bjarne. Where in Denmark can you get hold of bobbinlace making supplies? Tania ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2B4A7.8ABAC7F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You=20 could try cotton.  Also, llama wool is lanolin-free, soft, and = very=20 beautiful...
 
Talia
-----Original Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com=20 [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Tania=20 Gruning
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:26 = AM
To:=20 h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] = spinning

I have been following the authenticity discussion and I have gotten = the=20 inclination to try an learn how to spin. As I have very little space = it will=20 have to be on a spindle and since I break out from lanolin, I have to = do=20 linen.

My question. Is it best to start with a teacher? Where can you get = hold of=20 linen line?

And Bjarne. Where in Denmark can you get hold of bobbinlace making=20 supplies?

Tania


Do you Yahoo!?
Yaho= o! Mail=20 Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign= up=20 now
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2B4A7.8ABAC7F0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 12:05:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00911 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:05:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05H72i1015953; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05H703V020022; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05H6r3V019990 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:06:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.24]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8900FGH3HBM3@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 09:05:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] ACW sewing machines In-reply-to: <20030104201112.8878.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030105071251.00a68590@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20030104114817.00d5ea70@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 08:44:47 -0800 Status: RO > > As it happens, I have a chain-stitch sewing machine, > > and I plan to make at > > least one ACW-period dress on it. Just to have done > > it. But the machine > > itself sews very nicely, so I might use it for other > > historical things as, > > it seems, that brand of chain-stitch machine was > > still being sold well into > > the 1900s. > >Hang on a sec.... I'd found out that sewing machines >existed in the ACW period, and breathed a sigh of >relief (an ACW costume being my main project for the >coming year). Do I gather from this that they *didn't* >do the "standard" double running stitch that my >machine does, but a chain stitch instead? I'm pretty sure chain-stitch machines came first. The company who made my chain-stitch machine (Wilcox and Gibbs) was founded in 1857, and by 1865 they were up to serial number 90,000 (and they weren't the only company producing sewing machines, of course). I know the early models of lock-stitch machines were very expensive, so not every household could afford one. But by 1865 lock-stitch machines were in private homes, thanks to a marketing push by one of the manufacturers (Singer?). Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 12:06:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00917 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:06:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05H81i1015982; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05H813V020303; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05H6r3X019990 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:06:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.126.24]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8900FGH3HBM3@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 09:05:37 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-reply-to: <200301041858.25364.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030105090020.00d5e600@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 09:03:13 -0800 Status: RO > > > Thanks - I do tend to get frustrated by the long period covered > > by the SCA. I differ from most SCA members in that I worked out my persona like they do at Ren' Faire or living history sites. So I can interact with anyone in an SCA context, no problem. My persona is a Catholic, unlike me, and she knows she died. And then there was the SCA. After she got over the shock, she decided it wasn't Heaven, because God and the Saints weren't here. She figured it wasn't Hell, because there were hospitals and charities here. So it must be Purgatory, and her new task was to earn her way into Heaven thru good works. And seeing Medievals, airplanes, women wearing Levis, Punks with spiked blue hair, and whatever else is here that she doesn't understand, must all be a test, because nobody would be here, Vikings, Mongols, or whoever, if God hadn't wanted them to be here. So everything is right with her, and being dead isn't so bad. >Which illustrates my opinion about the SCA. The SCA doesn't do "living >history". Instead, its members pick and choose among the living history >types of activity they favor (period clothing, cooking, fighting, etc.) and >focus just on those, in the period/s in which they are interested. I joined the SCA in 1971, and I was not aware that the SCA considered itself a living history group. I get my living history elsewhere. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 12:16:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00931 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:16:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HI2i1016354; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HI13V022670; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HHE3V022433 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:17:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m67.in-tch.com [216.166.191.67]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h05H0oP23654 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:00:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1868BD.5F3968C@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder References: <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> <3E17E50A.21793.1925A233@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 10:17:49 -0700 Status: RO What about silk, though? --sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Cathy wrote: > > I thought that it varied by fiber, with wool more likely to be S-spun, > > flax (linen) to be Z-spun. > > It varies by vegetable fibre (such as linen, ramie, hemp, nettle) > because plants have their own "direction of spin", but the wool can > be spun either direction. (With the most common direction varying > based on factors like the introduction of new technology such as the > wheel and what the predominant vegetable fibre is for that area.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 12:21:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00951 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:21:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HN1i1016580; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HN13V023802; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HMI3V023632 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8900M3F490QI@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:22:13 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030105121521.03f2ce48@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:21:51 -0500 Status: RO On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:03:13 -0600, Rebecca Schmitt wrote: >The web address for the Art Institute is www.artic.edu >There was a large exhibit catalogue (which was $60) for the Medici exhibit. >This was, of course, rather extensive, with lots of stuff that was only >shown in Florence or Detroit. Definitely drool-worthy. Do you by any chance recall any of the bibliographic information on that catalogue? The online store has no related book or catalogue in that price range, and I'd be interested in seeing if my local discounter (which has a vast collection of art books) might have a copy for sale... >The colors don't always come out right in the photos for the brochure. In >one example, the photo shows a blue acanthus motif on a yellow background, >but the background is actually a rather, um, *interesting* shade of green, >not quite chartruese, perhaps a bit more olive than that? Anyhow, the photos >are still gorgeous! This is one of the major problems with (1) digital over film photography; (2) in film photography, the selection of photographic film and lighting for photography, standard-process film development and printing; (3) printing over live-viewing -- especially process printing over much more expensive spot-color and dye transfer printing techniques... *sigh* Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 12:23:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00969 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:23:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HP0i1016658; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HP03V024262; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HOw3V024250 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:24:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp247.directcon.net [206.170.184.247] (may be forged)) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h05HOYLn024185; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:24:35 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030105092831.00baa040@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! In-Reply-To: <000e01c2b4bf$03933f10$6601a8c0@mycomputer> References: <000701c2b456$161c3650$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 09:28:31 -0800 Status: RO At 06:33 AM 01/05/2003 -0700, Saragrace Knauf wrote: >There is a picture (photograph) in 20,000 years of fashion (page 377 in >my edition) of a woman with being dressed during a fitting. She has a >farthingale on so large that the people dressing her are putting her >gown on over her head with sticks, so as not to step on her 'cage'!! Of >course this is a later period (1865), but I would guess the farthingale >is 10-12 feet in diameter. That would make it about 4 feet wide at the >hips! The dressers are standing on chairs. That picture was originally produced as a stereopticon (sp?) slide. They were manufactured as novelties, and often had "joke" themes, which is what this one is. It's a spoof, not reality. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 12:31:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01032 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:31:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HX2i1016904; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HX13V026345; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05HWC3V026138 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:32:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-003-046.jps.net ([216.119.3.46] helo=pavilion) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VEd8-0004W9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 09:32:11 -0800 Message-ID: <004a01c2b4e1$62957b00$2e0377d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> <4.3.1.2.20030105090020.00d5e600@mail.frys.com> Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Living History vs. SCA humourous site - or offensive so proceed with caution Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:39:18 -0800 Status: RO There is an extreamly funny section on a site from the Routiers - The Pike and Muskett Society in NSW that deals with the problems the SCA has to cope with in having a wide range of time spans and an all inclusive approach to participation. The site is very funny, but it is definetly from a living history perspective with a strong bias against the SCA as a living history organisation. http://www.routiers.org/culture.htm it the page to enter and click the SCA. Please don't read it if you are inclinded to be upset by the words of extreamly arrogant men obsessed by very large metal weapons :) Personally, I think the SCA is a great organisation for a number of people with a diverse range of goals and I don't knock it in the least but I nearly wet myself laughing when I stumbled across this site so I thought I would share. Also the entry page www.routiers.org and a pretty nifty take off on Rembrandts The Anatomy Lesson of Dr. Tulp. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder > > > > > > Thanks - I do tend to get frustrated by the long period covered > > > by the SCA. > > I differ from most SCA members in that I worked out my persona like they do > at Ren' Faire or living history sites. So I can interact with anyone in an > SCA context, no problem. My persona is a Catholic, unlike me, and she > knows she died. And then there was the SCA. After she got over the shock, > she decided it wasn't Heaven, because God and the Saints weren't here. She > figured it wasn't Hell, because there were hospitals and charities > here. So it must be Purgatory, and her new task was to earn her way into > Heaven thru good works. And seeing Medievals, airplanes, women wearing > Levis, Punks with spiked blue hair, and whatever else is here that she > doesn't understand, must all be a test, because nobody would be here, > Vikings, Mongols, or whoever, if God hadn't wanted them to be here. So > everything is right with her, and being dead isn't so bad. > > >Which illustrates my opinion about the SCA. The SCA doesn't do "living > >history". Instead, its members pick and choose among the living history > >types of activity they favor (period clothing, cooking, fighting, etc.) and > >focus just on those, in the period/s in which they are interested. > > I joined the SCA in 1971, and I was not aware that the SCA considered > itself a living history group. I get my living history elsewhere. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 13:13:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01285 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:13:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05IF3i1018550; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05IF13V006681; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05IEH3V006495 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h05IlYaB011555; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:47:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h05IlXUw011553; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:47:33 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> <4.3.1.2.20030105090020.00d5e600@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030105090020.00d5e600@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301051347.33224.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h05IEH3V006495 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:47:33 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 05 January 2003 12:03 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > Thanks - I do tend to get frustrated by the long period covered > > > by the SCA. > > I differ from most SCA members in that I worked out my persona like they do > at Ren' Faire or living history sites. So I can interact with anyone in an > SCA context, no problem. My persona is a Catholic, unlike me, and she > knows she died. And then there was the SCA. After she got over the shock, > she decided it wasn't Heaven, because God and the Saints weren't here. She > figured it wasn't Hell, because there were hospitals and charities > here. So it must be Purgatory, and her new task was to earn her way into > Heaven thru good works. And seeing Medievals, airplanes, women wearing > Levis, Punks with spiked blue hair, and whatever else is here that she > doesn't understand, must all be a test, because nobody would be here, > Vikings, Mongols, or whoever, if God hadn't wanted them to be here. So > everything is right with her, and being dead isn't so bad. > > >Which illustrates my opinion about the SCA. The SCA doesn't do "living > >history". Instead, its members pick and choose among the living history > >types of activity they favor (period clothing, cooking, fighting, etc.) > > and focus just on those, in the period/s in which they are interested. > > I joined the SCA in 1971, and I was not aware that the SCA considered > itself a living history group. I have never heard anyone *in* the SCA express the believe that SCA is a living history group (in fact, I have no idea exactly how the SCA classifies itself). However, non-members get that impression and say things to that effect. I get my living history elsewhere. Of course. I myself am fascinated by living history, but have not attempted to join a living history group because I don't believe I have the time to devote to the level of research required. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 13:29:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01433 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:29:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05IV2i1019258; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05IV13V010388; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05IUn3V010327 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:30:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h05J45aB011614; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:04:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h05J459e011612; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:04:05 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, kat@grendal.rain.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> <3E17E50A.21793.1925A233@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3E17E50A.21793.1925A233@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301051404.05069.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h05IUn3V010327 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:04:05 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 05 January 2003 10:55 am, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > Cathy wrote: > > I thought that it varied by fiber, with wool more likely to be S-spun, > > flax (linen) to be Z-spun. > > It varies by vegetable fibre (such as linen, ramie, hemp, nettle) > because plants have their own "direction of spin", but the wool can > be spun either direction. Hmm. I wonder if there is a preferred direction of spin for wool anyway, though. Was the direction of spin for wool chosen to obtain particular effects, or was it primarily a cultural thing? (With the most common direction varying > based on factors like the introduction of new technology such as the > wheel and what the predominant vegetable fibre is for that area.) This factor I was aware of. Thanks, as always, for the information. I can barely make a tablet-woven belt myself, and I have never attempted to weave fabric. So I have a hard time following discussions of spin and weave myself (though I find them fascinating). -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 13:34:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01512 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:34:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Ia2i1019587; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Ia13V011842; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05IZZ3V011705 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:35:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VFcV-0001Tt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 10:35:35 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Message-ID: <000b01c2b4e9$3ce649e0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030105092831.00baa040@pop.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:35:35 -0700 Status: RO >That picture was originally produced as a stereopticon (sp?) slide. They >were manufactured as novelties, and often had "joke" themes, which is what >this one is. It's a spoof, not reality. This may be true, but there are fashion plates that depict similar sized gowns. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 13:48:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01603 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:48:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Io3i1020157; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Io23V015301; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Ind3V015220 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-10-128.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.10.128] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18VFq6-0007hc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:49:38 +0000 Message-ID: <004901c2b4eb$c752c5c0$800a24d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] The Generalls Music at the Museum of London Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:53:43 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, I had the great pleasure of listening to music made by Kate Bunting and her conferes, as well as watching the dancing, in the Museum of London today. Actually, I was there for some of it yesterday, and liked it so much I went back to it today:-) Kate's costume was quietly elegant, beautifully judged as to place and time. If anyone else gets an opportunity I most heartily recommend that they take it... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 14:00:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01663 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:00:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05J2Si1020706; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:02:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05J2R3V018355; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:02:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05J0B3V017732 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:00:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04519 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:11:06 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! In-Reply-To: <000e01c2b4bf$03933f10$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:11:06 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > There is a picture (photograph) in 20,000 years of fashion (page 377 > in my edition) of a woman with being dressed during a fitting. She > has a farthingale on so large that the people dressing her are putting > her gown on over her head with sticks, so as not to step on her > 'cage'!! Of course this is a later period (1865), but I would guess > the farthingale is 10-12 feet in diameter. That would make it about 4 > feet wide at the hips! Just as a semantic clarification: The quote Bjarne gave was "Her Majesty's costume was pink and gold with so expansive a farthingale that I do not exaggerate when I say it was four feet wide in the hips." There are a couple of ways to read that, some more likely than others. I remember the first time I saw a reference to this quote was in some old costume book that paraphrased it as meaning "extending four feet from the hip," which is what Saragrace describes above for the 1865 illustration. I thought that the four-feet-extension measurement sounded preposterous for early 1600s when I first read it, and was much relieved later when I found the original quote, which is far more likely to mean a *total* width of four feet from one side to another. My French farthingale (bolster-style) is 28 inches in diameter, and quite conservative. It looks a bit bigger once all the skirts are arranged over it, and it would be even bigger if I were larger around the waist. I could see a royal version coming to about 48 inches (or close to it) visually -- still possible to construct, but certainly imposing enough to inspire this sort of comment. Interestingly, I lately came across this quote, purportedly from the Discours sur la Mode, 1613: The large vertugadin is common to all French women; The bourgeoises wear it freely now, Just the same as the great ladies, if it be not That the bourgeoise is content with a smaller one; For the great ladies are not satisfied With a vertugadin less than five yards round. I wouldn't be quick to take the "five yards" as an exact measurement, as the quote was almost certainly originally in French, and the original is not given in this book -- the undependable "Historic Costume" by Katherine Morris Lester and Rose Netzorg Kerr, originally 1925 (I have a 1961 edition). The original might have been five ells, or some other measurement that doesn't correspond to modern yardage. In addition to the translation issue, there's also the likelihood that this description is an exaggeration (given the context of criticism of current fashion). And there's even the possibility that the yardage (or whatever measurement) referred to the width of the skirt that goes over the farthingale, which would be somewhat larger than the farthingale circumference to allow for pleating. For what it's worth, a 48-inch-diameter circle has a circumference of 151 inches, or a bit over four yards in modern measurements. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 14:05:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01713 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:05:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05J71i1020923; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05J713V019551; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h05J6V3V019410 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:06:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWomz6/amgffpjH4qZ2vLdMlm8ViwxggUGQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMSJTCMJ; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 14:05:47 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Message-ID: <20030105.140548.-553587.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:55:53 -0500 Status: RO The picture I am getting in my mind's eye is not something I would want to meet in real life! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 14:43:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01804 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:43:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Jj5i1022678; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:45:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Jj13V028394; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05JiF3V028243 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:44:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be6a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.106]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1379C4806F6 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:44:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001601c2b4f3$44fd78b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:47:24 +0100 Status: RO The way i read this is that she has a farthingale wich is 4 feet in the hips. Then i am unsertan if they used the word farthingales for the bum rolls. My point is that it is a wheel shaped farthingale 3 feet in the hips. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 8:11 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > > There is a picture (photograph) in 20,000 years of fashion (page 377 > > in my edition) of a woman with being dressed during a fitting. She > > has a farthingale on so large that the people dressing her are putting > > her gown on over her head with sticks, so as not to step on her > > 'cage'!! Of course this is a later period (1865), but I would guess > > the farthingale is 10-12 feet in diameter. That would make it about 4 > > feet wide at the hips! > > Just as a semantic clarification: The quote Bjarne gave was "Her Majesty's > costume was pink and gold with so expansive a farthingale that I do not > exaggerate when I say it was four feet wide in the hips." There are a > couple of ways to read that, some more likely than others. I remember the > first time I saw a reference to this quote was in some old costume book > that paraphrased it as meaning "extending four feet from the hip," which > is what Saragrace describes above for the 1865 illustration. I thought > that the four-feet-extension measurement sounded preposterous for early > 1600s when I first read it, and was much relieved later when I found the > original quote, which is far more likely to mean a *total* width of four > feet from one side to another. > > My French farthingale (bolster-style) is 28 inches in diameter, and quite > conservative. It looks a bit bigger once all the skirts are arranged over > it, and it would be even bigger if I were larger around the waist. I could > see a royal version coming to about 48 inches (or close to it) visually -- > still possible to construct, but certainly imposing enough to inspire this > sort of comment. > > Interestingly, I lately came across this quote, purportedly from the > Discours sur la Mode, 1613: > The large vertugadin is common to all French women; > The bourgeoises wear it freely now, > Just the same as the great ladies, if it be not > That the bourgeoise is content with a smaller one; > For the great ladies are not satisfied > With a vertugadin less than five yards round. I wouldn't be quick > to take the "five yards" as an exact measurement, as the quote was almost > certainly originally in French, and the original is not given in this book > -- the undependable "Historic Costume" by Katherine Morris Lester and Rose > Netzorg Kerr, originally 1925 (I have a 1961 edition). The original might > have been five ells, or some other measurement that doesn't correspond to > modern yardage. In addition to the translation issue, there's also the > likelihood that this description is an exaggeration (given the context of > criticism of current fashion). And there's even the possibility that the > yardage (or whatever measurement) referred to the width of the skirt that > goes over the farthingale, which would be somewhat larger than the > farthingale circumference to allow for pleating. > > For what it's worth, a 48-inch-diameter circle has a circumference of 151 > inches, or a bit over four yards in modern measurements. > > --Robin > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 15:00:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01925 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:00:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05K22i1024067; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05K203V002489; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05K1B3V002282 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:01:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m74.in-tch.com [216.166.191.74]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h05JikP10626 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:44:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E188F28.26CAF36A@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Generalls Music at the Museum of London References: <004901c2b4eb$c752c5c0$800a24d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 13:01:44 -0700 Status: RO Oooooh! I envy you! I only had a few hours there, this summer. *sigh* Tell us more about Kate's costume! --sue Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Hi all, > I had the great pleasure of listening to music made by Kate Bunting > and her conferes, as well as watching the dancing, in the Museum of > London today. Actually, I was there for some of it yesterday, and > liked it so much I went back to it today:-) Kate's costume was quietly > elegant, beautifully judged as to place and time. If anyone else gets > an opportunity I most heartily recommend that they take it... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 15:35:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02104 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:35:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Kb3i1025456; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Kb03V010793; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05KaM3V010674 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04747 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:47:18 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! In-Reply-To: <001601c2b4f3$44fd78b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:47:18 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > The way i read this is that she has a farthingale wich is 4 feet in > the hips. Then i am unsertan if they used the word farthingales for > the bum rolls. My point is that it is a wheel shaped farthingale 3 > feet in the hips. Yes, definitely, I read it also as referring to the skirt shape that people today call the "wheel farthingale," meaning the type that makes the skirt look as though it's sticking out from the waist in a circular shape. The time period is right for that, too. But I don't get anything from the quote that tells us the nature of the structure that's holding up the skirts. The word "farthingale" was used to describe a number of different types of skirt supports, starting with the Spanish farthingale, which was made of graduated hoops. There's no question that the style that we call the "wheel" shape was made with the use of something called a "French farthingale," since that's the term that was used for that visual style in period. "Wheel farthingale" was not a period term; it was invented by later historians as a description of the visual shape seen in the portraits from around the early 1600s. Later writers have also called it a "cartwheel farthingale," "Catherine-wheel farthingale," and "drum farthingale," all apparently based on the appearance of the shape in portraits. I haven't yet found a recorded use of any of these terms that dates to the time in which this shape was worn. (If someone has such a reference, let me know!) So we know that whatever-it-was they were wearing, the people who were wearing it called it the French farthingale. The question, then, is what the "French farthingale" itself was made of. Modern scholars have assumed it was a boned structure (as pictured in Hunnisett and others), perhaps a circle of sturdy cloth held in shape with concentric circles of whalebone (or metal or another material), with or without a hooped skirt hanging down. When I tried to track this idea back to the sources from the period, though, I found that the trail dead-ended in the late 1700s, with the suppositions of the costume historians at the time, who were steeped in the personal knowledge of 1700s styles (panniers and other wire frameworks). References from the early 1600s are more consistent with the idea that it was a structured bolster. There is no period reference, of those I've seen, that definitively requires interpretation as a wheel-frame, but there are many references that do require interpretation as a stuffed roll (including some dictionary definitions). This "French farthingale" roll would probably *not* have been called a bum-roll. That term appears to have been used for a less formal arrangement of pads, and if I remember correctly, it's used in the plural (bum-rolls). Based on the one quote I know in which both terms are used together, his arrangement would likely have been a middle-class substitute for the structured farthingale roll. Alas, modern costume historians have picked up the colorful term "bum-roll" and applied it to just about every form of hip padding or bolster that occurs anywhere near this period, even the padding that well predates the earliest recorded use of the term (1601). It's been a while since this has come up on the list. People who want to see the earlier discussions can catch up in the archives, or (for convenience) in my compilation of posts from the archives at . --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 15:42:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02149 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:42:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Ki2i1025748; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Ki13V012403; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Kho3V012340 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:43:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-112vq8b.biz.mindspring.com ([66.47.233.11]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VHcb-0005Tc-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 15:43:49 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ledesign@pop.newsguy.com Message-Id: To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: LEdge Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Medici exhibit in Chicago - exhibit catalog Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:43:29 -0800 Status: RO re: Do you by any chance recall any of the bibliographic information on that catalogue? The online store has no related book or catalogue in that price range, and I'd be interested in seeing if my local discounter (which has a vast collection of art books) might have a copy for sale... the catalog has not yet been published: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0895581582/104-5941505-4546343 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 15:45:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02162 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:45:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Kl1i1025926; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Kl03V013239; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05KkU3V013111 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:46:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.2.118]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030105204627.GOJK15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:46:27 +0000 Subject: Busts & Prudes/Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3E17E509.128.19259E6E@localhost> Message-Id: <8610A060-20F6-11D7-A91C-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:42:01 +0000 Status: RO On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 03:55 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > You can thank our Victorian ancestors that there are not very many > portrait or other information about that. If you look at some of the > portraits from the late Elizabethan and Jacobean time you can see > these fantasticly low necklines. Most people who know about female > breast position/anatomy wonder how they could possibly get them into > that low a neckline without exposing the nipples. The answer is that > they didn't. Exactly.Its not like Super Glue and double sided tape was discreetly applied. > However, if you examine the paintings with methods which > show the underlying paint layers (such as IR and xray) you find that > those nipples are "present and accounted for". What about all those fig leaves the Victorians modestly covered various sculptures with? > Woodcuts faired even > more poorly. Except for the ones like you mention above (I've also > seen one of a very proper lady serving her family and the visiting > minister at dinner), most of the engraving/woodcuts have very odd > scratchings over that area, courtesy of their prudish descendants. Indeed and very few survive that show a bare bosom. As I understand the trend,a bare bosom indicated the maidenhood of the young woman and her virginity.17thC doxies on the other hand are reputed to have encarmined their nipples with cochenial to entice customers.Our ancestors were a very hearty bunch back then,clearly indicated by some of the more lurid ditties and plays that survive intact. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 16:00:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02233 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:00:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05L21i1026427; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05L203V016675; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05L1M3V016531 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.2.118]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030105210120.GUGF15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:01:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <99FE0E70-20F8-11D7-A91C-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:56:53 +0000 Status: RO On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 08:47 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> The way i read this is that she has a farthingale wich is 4 feet in >> the hips. Then i am unsertan if they used the word farthingales for >> the bum rolls. My point is that it is a wheel shaped farthingale 3 >> feet in the hips. > > Yes, definitely, I read it also as referring to the skirt shape that > people today call the "wheel farthingale," meaning the type that makes > the > skirt look as though it's sticking out from the waist in a circular > shape. > The time period is right for that, too. But I don't get anything from > the > quote that tells us the nature of the structure that's holding up the > skirts. Probably the most accurate and authentic 'reading' as to scale. > > "Wheel farthingale" was not a period term; it was invented by > later historians as a description of the visual shape seen in the > portraits from around the early 1600s. Later writers have also called > it a > "cartwheel farthingale," "Catherine-wheel farthingale," and "drum > farthingale," all apparently based on the appearance of the shape in > portraits. Correct. > I haven't yet found a recorded use of any of these terms that > dates to the time in which this shape was worn. (If someone has such a > reference, let me know!) I've been looking for 30 years and have not found documentable reference anywhere. > > So we know that whatever-it-was they were wearing, the people who were > wearing it called it the French farthingale. The question, then, is what > the "French farthingale" itself was made of. Modern scholars have > assumed > it was a boned structure (as pictured in Hunnisett and others), > perhaps a > circle of sturdy cloth held in shape with concentric circles of > whalebone > (or metal or another material), with or without a hooped skirt hanging > down. When I tried to track this idea back to the sources from the > period, > though, I found that the trail dead-ended in the late 1700s, with the > suppositions of the costume historians at the time, who were steeped in > the personal knowledge of 1700s styles (panniers and other wire > frameworks). References from the early 1600s are more consistent with > the > idea that it was a structured bolster. There is no period reference, of > those I've seen, that definitively requires interpretation as a > wheel-frame, but there are many references that do require > interpretation > as a stuffed roll (including some dictionary definitions). The nearest I've ever come to for an extent example is the one that was used on the wax effigy of Elizabeth.However its made with cane in a cotton form and was constructed when the statue was cleaned up and redressed in the 18thC.It even looks like panniers to me. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 17:39:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02619 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:39:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Mf5i1000622; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:41:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Mf23V010627; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h05Mc33V009889 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:38:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-64-175-47-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@64.175.47.242 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2003 22:38:03 -0000 Message-ID: <008901c2b50b$20451060$f22faf40@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:38:09 -0800 Status: RO Lynoure You might want to check out a line by Promenade Patterns. Harper House carries them at http://www.longago.com/edward.html . I have not seen the picture you wish to recreate, as I cannot locate my book, but they have two existing patterns for gowns from the teens and one may suit you, or may be close enough to alter to your tastes. There are also patterns from this era at www.pastpatterns.com, but they are mostly day wear. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not I have used my credit." King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:51 AM Subject: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress > > I'm about to start making a dress that makes me very nervous, because it's > from an era I'm not very familiar with and because it's going to be my > wedding dress. It's going to be a copy of the dress on pages 377 to 380 of > Costume in Detail 1730-1930, but I'm considering using light purple colour > instead of light blue. > > Could somebody give me hints about dressmaking or pattern making of that > era? E.g. does a "close enough" pattern already exist? > > -- > Lynoure Rajamaki > lynoure@tuug.fi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 17:40:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02627 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:40:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Mg3i1000696; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Mg23V010872; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Mfu3V010835 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:41:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f7a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.122]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 046CC262BB5 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:41:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c2b50c$183bea50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] wheel farthingale Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:45:06 +0100 Status: RO The nearest I've ever come to for an extent example is the one that was used on the wax effigy of Elizabeth.However its made with cane in a cotton form and was constructed when the statue was cleaned up and redressed in the 18thC.It even looks like panniers to me. Marcus. Hi Marcus. My theory about this is that there was a farthingale on the wax effigy who had this shape, but when they remodelled it, they used a modern cut - a panier. Has any on the list ever seen this wax effigy? I havent even seen a photo of it, only the panier. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 17:54:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02684 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:54:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Mu3i1001266; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Mu13V014066; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05MsI3V013590 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:54:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.31.152]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030105225417.TYHD21179.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:54:17 +0000 Subject: Effigy/Re: [h-cost] wheel farthingale Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000f01c2b50c$183bea50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <610291CD-2108-11D7-A91C-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:49:50 +0000 Status: RO On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 10:45 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > My theory about this is that there was a farthingale on the wax effigy > who > had this shape, but when they remodelled it, they used a modern cut - a > panier. Yep thats what I thought when I finally realised that I was looking at panniers and not a 'wheel farthingale'.Very vexing I must say. > Has any on the list ever seen this wax effigy? I can't remember where it was on site - Westminster,Bjarne or is my memory playing tricks?Wherever it is its no longer on display I don't think.The effigy featured in the series of pics that showed the cane panniers/farthingale was Queen Anne I believe. > I havent even seen a photo of it, only the panier. Me too.Still its intriguing. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 18:02:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02723 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:02:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05N42i1001644; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05N413V015870; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h05N3v3V015830 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:03:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OucdL0V88im6W2Cy1xI3Dsg="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMSYDG5T; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:02:53 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <20030105.150018.440.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5-7,9-10,13-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:00:17 -0800 Status: RO > I have never heard anyone *in* the SCA express the believe that SCA > is a living history group (in fact, I have no idea exactly how the SCA > classifies itself). However, non-members get that impression and say things to > that effect. As a medieval education and recreation group, more or less. The Feds classify it as a non-profit education group. Question re: coifs: my persona occaisionally does Ren Italian--I was wondering it the Italian women wore coifs and if so, where I might find pictures and patterns. Thanks, Arlys ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 18:21:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02807 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:21:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05NN2i1002436; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05NN03V020256; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h05NMS3V020098 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:22:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmStm7jRB24GgrE4UBBzJt47BTP51PeMPw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMSZGBUH; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:21:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Effigy/Re: [h-cost] wheel farthingale Message-ID: <20030105.172135.-80707.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 13-18,20-56 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:21:35 -0600 Status: RO The effigy of Queen E is in Westminster Abbey. It isn't in the Abbey proper but in a small building out in the Cloister area. As far as I know, it's still on display, or it was about 3 years ago when I was there. They sell a very nice book to go along with the exhibit (which has pretty much all the remaining funeral effigies that the Abbey has, they were nicknamed 'The Ragged Regiment' back in the Victorian era when many of them were worse for wear.) It has many pictures of the various effigies (Nicole, you need to see this as many of the effigies are from people prominent at the end of the 17th and into the early 18th century and many of the items of clothing were taken from their living wardrobes) as well as shots taken during the last refurbishment so you can see the underpinnings. Of course, I bought the book- it was quite reasonable as I recall, about $10BPS. If folks are interested I could dig it out and scan some of the images that folks would most like to see. Karen On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:49:50 +0000 marcus findlay-arthur writes: > > On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 10:45 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews > wrote: > > > My theory about this is that there was a farthingale on the wax > effigy > > who > > had this shape, but when they remodelled it, they used a modern > cut - a > > panier. > > Yep thats what I thought when I finally realised that I was looking > at > panniers and not a 'wheel farthingale'.Very vexing I must say. > > > Has any on the list ever seen this wax effigy? > > I can't remember where it was on site - Westminster,Bjarne or is my > > memory playing tricks?Wherever it is its no longer on display I > don't > think.The effigy featured in the series of pics that showed the cane > > panniers/farthingale was Queen Anne I believe. > > > I havent even seen a photo of it, only the panier. > > Me too.Still its intriguing. > > Marcus. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 18:54:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02897 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:54:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Nu2i1003839; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05Nu03V028675; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h05NtB3V028463 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:55:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from host-66-81-244-171.rev.o1.com ([66.81.244.171]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VKbm-00046P-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:55:10 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <009101c2b2dc$733caa20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> References: <000f01c2b299$c4947800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <009101c2b2dc$733caa20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] off topic artistic veins Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:54:40 -0800 Status: RO I have no idea where my abilities come from. My dad's side of the family is musical -- my father's mother taught Latin and piano -- but while most of our family antiques came from this grandmother, as far as I know she was more of a collector than a doer. There is one moderately well-known artist in the family -- Edward Laning, who was a painter in the '30s -- but he's a distant cousin at best. My other grandmother did the usual domestic embroidery, knitting, crochet, etc. and so did my mom, but it was never a consuming passion :) The men in both families have been un-crafty things like doctors, administrators, scientists etc. In fact, in my family it was always "understood" when I was growing up that if you were _really_ smart, you would do math and science -- if you weren't so smart, then you might do art or languages or history or something. It took me more than 45 years and an all-but-PhD (to tie in with another thread!) to realize that I didn't _want_ to be a scientist; in a different family I might well have grown up to be a historian, a linguist, or a professional writer. So here I am doing writing, historical research, graphic design and needlework pretty much in a vacuum.... but perhaps my heritage explains why I seem to spend more time reading and writing about needlework than actually doing it.......! -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 19:38:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03044 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:38:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h060e2i1005607; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h060e13V009234; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h060dO3V009085 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:39:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8900IZBOHCKA@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:39:13 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Medici exhibit in Chicago - exhibit catalog In-reply-to: <20030105224101.10606.48541.Mailman@net.indra.com> X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030105193556.03f7bea8@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:38:53 -0500 Status: RO On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:43:29 -0800, LEdge responded to my inquiry: >>Do you by any chance recall any of the bibliographic information on that >>catalogue?... I'd be interested in seeing if my local discounter (which has a >>vast collection of art books) might have a copy for sale... > >the catalog has not yet been published: >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0895581582/104-5941505-4546343 Apparently, my local discounter already has it, for $44.95: http://www.strandbooks.com/profile/?isbn=0300094957&itemno=0 I'll have to walk around the corner at lunch time to see what their stock is... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 20:01:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03147 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:01:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06133i1006635; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h061303V014979; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0612S3V014855 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:02:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5676 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 01:02:27 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com Received: from dhcp065-024-125-020.columbus.rr.com (HELO ?65.24.125.20?) (65.24.125.20) by mail.donet.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 01:02:27 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine From: Marsha Hamilton To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3124641568_1130796_MIME_Part" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:59:28 -0500 Status: RO > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3124641568_1130796_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 1/4/03 7:53 AM, AnnBWass@aol.com at AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/4/2003 1:36:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: Should I try to find a Singer retailer to investigate them too? What about the White machines? Definitely forget them. Viking and Bernina are, I think, about equivalent in quality. I love my Bernina, but convenience for service is a factor. A friend has a Viking and loves it. I think today's electronic machines are very durable, so don't let that bother you. Ann Wass -------------------- I have a 20 year old Singer Professional that is cast iron, weighs a ton, and has a fly wheel connected to a motor under the table that could run a lawn mower. I've never had any trouble with it (knock wood) and it will sew through anything, including many layers of heavy fabric as well as sheers. It is a work-horse but has no fancy stitches. It depends on what you need the machine for. I sometimes see used professional machines for sale. Marsha --MS_Mac_OE_3124641568_1130796_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine on 1/4/03 7:53 AM, AnnBWass@aol.com at AnnBWass@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 1/4/2003 1= :36:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes:


Should I try to= find a Singer retailer to
investigate them too? What about the White machines?


Definitely forget them.  Viking and Bernina are, I think, about equiva= lent in quality.  I love my Bernina, but convenience for service is a f= actor.  A friend has a Viking and loves it.  I think today's elect= ronic machines are very durable, so don't let that bother you.
Ann Wass
--------------------
I have a 20 year old Singer Professional that is cast iron, weighs a ton, a= nd has a fly wheel connected to a motor under the table that could run a law= n mower.  I've never had any trouble with it (knock wood) and it will s= ew through anything, including many layers of heavy fabric as well as sheers= .  It is a work-horse but has no fancy stitches.  It depends on wh= at you need the machine for.  I sometimes see used professional machine= s for sale.  

Marsha --MS_Mac_OE_3124641568_1130796_MIME_Part-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 20:25:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03369 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:25:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h061R2i1007720; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h061R03V020508; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h061Q23V020272 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9818 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 01:26:01 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com Received: from dhcp065-024-125-020.columbus.rr.com (HELO ?65.24.125.20?) (65.24.125.20) by mail.donet.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 01:26:01 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity From: Marsha Hamilton To: , Marsha Hamilton Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 20:23:03 -0500 Status: RO on 1/4/03 3:21 AM, Ella Lynoure Rajamaki at lynoure@tuug.fi wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > >> Shoot, when I was in school, we were not *allowed* to wear trousers >> of any sort to school, no matter what the weather. (And it was *very* >> cold...So, while a >> modern person would say that it couldn't be that girls in the 1950s >> and 60s wouldn't wear trousers in cold weather, I can assure you that >> we didn't. (If we tried, we got expelled from school.) ----------- > Skirts can be plenty warm and nice in very cold weather. It has been > between -20 and -28 Celsius here this week, and I have still worn skirts.... ------------ This thread is interesting because it has come up before. I think people in looking back historically exhibit the prejudice that people do things for rational reasons. Whether its pockets or warmth. I don't think that's true. For example, on the skirt/trouser issue in the 1950s... I can't count the number of times I stood out in sub-zero weather in deep snow freezing to death waiting for the school bus to come. Dressed in my 1950's knee length skirts, car-coat length winter coat, sock or nylons, and ankle height slip on boots. My frozen legs were totally exposed, the snow always fell over my boot tops and got my feet miserably wet. But that is what I wore every winter. Not because it was smart or warm but because that was the only style of clothing available and acceptable--both by peers and the school system. It's silly but there's no reason to believe people in other historic periods were any smarter. We know the clothes we folks (of a certain age ;-) wore were uncomfortable, unsuited to the situation, etc. We should collect examples of all the idiotically unsuitable things we've worn over the years! It will give costume historians of the future a good laugh. Marsha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 21:06:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03509 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:06:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06286i1009768; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:08:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062803V000395; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062753V000134 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-18-143.o1.jps.net ([216.119.18.143] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VMfP-0001Ai-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:07:04 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01c2b529$52b55fa0$8f1277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:14:18 -0800 Status: RO >From the Brigham Young University files 1980 The school had a rule that women could not wear jean to class. Snows in Utah in the winter, very cold. A young woman wore jeans to class on the day of her final and was not permitted access to the examination room, so she went to the ladies room, removed her pants and sat the exam in her trench coat and panties. Story hit the national papers too. Shortly thereafter the rule changed. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Hamilton" To: ; "Marsha Hamilton" Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity > > We should collect examples of all the idiotically unsuitable things we've > worn over the years! It will give costume historians of the future a good > laugh. > > Marsha > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 21:31:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03636 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:31:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062X2i1010892; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062X13V006047; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062W03V005830 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <200301060231550010085d6ve>; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 02:31:55 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030105182428.009fc510@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:30:21 -0800 Status: RO I agree. You are talking about the 1950's, but my daughter, who goes to a Catholic girls school has to wear a plaid skirt, white shirt and school sweatshirt or jacket. It snowed twice in Sacramento last year and those girls were out there in their little skirts that are way above their knees. The only explanation that the administration will give for the restrictive dress code is that they know what those girls from St Francis do with their pants. I have asked lots of St Francis students what they do with their pants and they can't give me an answer. It makes no sense, but there you have it. I also have been using some commercial patterns for Elizabethan dresses, which I rarely do, but I lost my pattern. The use darts and have no gathers at the waist. As you said, with our modern sensibilities, those things seem completely intuitive. They wouldn't have 500 years ago. maryann At 08:23 PM 1/5/2003 -0500, you wrote: >on 1/4/03 3:21 AM, Ella Lynoure Rajamaki at lynoure@tuug.fi wrote: > > > On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > >> Shoot, when I was in school, we were not *allowed* to wear trousers > >> of any sort to school, no matter what the weather. (And it was *very* > >> cold...So, while a > >> modern person would say that it couldn't be that girls in the 1950s > >> and 60s wouldn't wear trousers in cold weather, I can assure you that > >> we didn't. (If we tried, we got expelled from school.) >----------- > > Skirts can be plenty warm and nice in very cold weather. It has been > > between -20 and -28 Celsius here this week, and I have still worn > skirts.... >------------ >This thread is interesting because it has come up before. I think people in >looking back historically exhibit the prejudice that people do things for >rational reasons. Whether its pockets or warmth. I don't think that's >true. > >For example, on the skirt/trouser issue in the 1950s... >I can't count the number of times I stood out in sub-zero weather in deep >snow freezing to death waiting for the school bus to come. Dressed in my >1950's knee length skirts, car-coat length winter coat, sock or nylons, and >ankle height slip on boots. My frozen legs were totally exposed, the snow >always fell over my boot tops and got my feet miserably wet. But that is >what I wore every winter. > >Not because it was smart or warm but because that was the only style of >clothing available and acceptable--both by peers and the school system. >It's silly but there's no reason to believe people in other historic periods >were any smarter. We know the clothes we folks (of a certain age ;-) wore >were uncomfortable, unsuited to the situation, etc. > >We should collect examples of all the idiotically unsuitable things we've >worn over the years! It will give costume historians of the future a good >laugh. > >Marsha > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 21:35:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03703 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:35:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062b1i1011130; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062b03V006939; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062aH3V006794 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:36:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a225.in-tch.com [66.62.107.25]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h062JqP04979 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:19:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E18EBBE.57DF571D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable References: <000e01c2b529$52b55fa0$8f1277d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:36:46 -0700 Status: RO Just this school year (last fall), the high school I attended, mumblety-mumble years ago, actually *expelled* one of their students for having her hair in dreadlocks. Yes, it was a small town.... --sue, who remembers having to take off her snowpants when she got to school, too, although by the time she was in jr. high, we could finally wear jeans and pants. Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > >From the Brigham Young University files 1980 > > The school had a rule that women could not wear jean to class. Snows in > Utah in the winter, very cold. A young woman wore jeans to class on the > day of her final and was not permitted access to the examination room, so > she went to the ladies room, removed her pants and sat the exam in her > trench coat and panties. > > Story hit the national papers too. Shortly thereafter the rule changed. > > Lisa > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha Hamilton" > To: ; "Marsha Hamilton" > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 5:23 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity > > > > > We should collect examples of all the idiotically unsuitable things we've > > worn over the years! It will give costume historians of the future a good > > laugh. > > > > Marsha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 21:41:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03728 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:41:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062h2i1011342; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062h13V008285; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h062fx3V008114 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05679 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:52:57 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030105182428.009fc510@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:52:56 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, MaryAnn Jones wrote: > I also have been using some commercial patterns for Elizabethan > dresses, which I rarely do, but I lost my pattern. The use darts and > have no gathers at the waist. As you said, with our modern > sensibilities, those things seem completely intuitive. They wouldn't > have 500 years ago. maryann When I was very new to this, I remember once someone insisting to me that side bust darts were an essential and logical approach for shaping around the bust on a 14th-century fitted dress -- "because the fabric just folds that way naturally, and they would have seen that happen because it always happens." In working out my own construction, I found that if you change the sequence of construction steps, shift the bust to a non-modern position, and use a flexible wool or linen, you don't get the characteristic "dart fold," and probably couldn't make one if you tried. What seems obvious in a modern approach may not work the same when you apply a period technique and period materials. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 22:20:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03826 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:20:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063Loi1012996; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:21:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063Lm3V017105; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:21:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063Ig3V016424 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:18:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.110] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A3FEB7E0252; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 22:11:58 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c2b532$bb8bf8a0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <99FE0E70-20F8-11D7-A91C-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:21:40 -0500 Status: RO In this discussion of wheelfarthingale, is there some confusion between wire crinolines and farthingales? The photo being discussed is certainly from the 19th Century, and has all the aspects of a crinoline (hoop) and not the skirt distenders known from earlier periods. Also, the fact that it is a photograph should have some explanation. re the date. Admitted, it is an exaggeration and like the cartoons of the era, was probably intended as a joke...which has already been mentioned. If the diameter is about 6', the yardage around the bottom would be somewhat over 5+ yards. Since skirts of this period are often quoted at more than 5-6 yards, especially ball gowns, the exaggeration isn't really that far out...from my vantage point. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcus findlay-arthur" To: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! > > On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 08:47 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > >> The way i read this is that she has a farthingale wich is 4 feet in > >> the hips. Then i am unsertan if they used the word farthingales for > >> the bum rolls. My point is that it is a wheel shaped farthingale 3 > >> feet in the hips. > > > > Yes, definitely, I read it also as referring to the skirt shape that > > people today call the "wheel farthingale," meaning the type that makes > > the > > skirt look as though it's sticking out from the waist in a circular > > shape. > > The time period is right for that, too. But I don't get anything from > > the > > quote that tells us the nature of the structure that's holding up the > > skirts. > > Probably the most accurate and authentic 'reading' as to scale. > > > > "Wheel farthingale" was not a period term; it was invented by > > later historians as a description of the visual shape seen in the > > portraits from around the early 1600s. Later writers have also called > > it a > > "cartwheel farthingale," "Catherine-wheel farthingale," and "drum > > farthingale," all apparently based on the appearance of the shape in > > portraits. > > Correct. > > > I haven't yet found a recorded use of any of these terms that > > dates to the time in which this shape was worn. (If someone has such a > > reference, let me know!) > > I've been looking for 30 years and have not found documentable reference > anywhere. > > > > So we know that whatever-it-was they were wearing, the people who were > > wearing it called it the French farthingale. The question, then, is what > > the "French farthingale" itself was made of. Modern scholars have > > assumed > > it was a boned structure (as pictured in Hunnisett and others), > > perhaps a > > circle of sturdy cloth held in shape with concentric circles of > > whalebone > > (or metal or another material), with or without a hooped skirt hanging > > down. When I tried to track this idea back to the sources from the > > period, > > though, I found that the trail dead-ended in the late 1700s, with the > > suppositions of the costume historians at the time, who were steeped in > > the personal knowledge of 1700s styles (panniers and other wire > > frameworks). References from the early 1600s are more consistent with > > the > > idea that it was a structured bolster. There is no period reference, of > > those I've seen, that definitively requires interpretation as a > > wheel-frame, but there are many references that do require > > interpretation > > as a stuffed roll (including some dictionary definitions). > > The nearest I've ever come to for an extent example is the one that was > used on the wax effigy of Elizabeth.However its made with cane in a > cotton form and was constructed when the statue was cleaned up and > redressed in the 18thC.It even looks like panniers to me. > > Marcus. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 22:29:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03845 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:29:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063V4i1013454; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063V13V019287; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063UG3V019092 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip54.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.54]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h063UC429142 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:30:13 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity Message-ID: <3E18863B.25814.1B9B6253@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:23:39 -0800 Status: RO > We should collect examples of all the idiotically unsuitable things > we've worn over the years! It will give costume historians of the > future a good laugh. Ooo, you mean like 3 piece suits (jacket, vest and pants, with shirt and undershirt) worn by men in unairconditioned business offices in the 1950s and before? Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 22:29:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03849 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:29:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063VFi1013464; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063VE3V019345; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063UM3V019130 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip54.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.54]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h063UE429161 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:30:15 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E18863B.22646.1B9B641A@localhost> Priority: normal References: <200301041858.25364.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20030105090020.00d5e600@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:23:39 -0800 Status: RO > I joined the SCA in 1971, and I was not aware that the SCA considered > itself a living history group. I get my living history elsewhere. It shows up along with Williamsburg, Plimoth, ACL groups and the like in the books devoted to Living History. Although there is a lot of fringe population in the SCA who prefer to play rather than study, it is chartered through the IRS as a non-profit educational group with their articles of incorporation stating: The purposes for which this corporation is formed include: (a) Research and education in the field of pre-17th-Century Western Culture. (b) Generally, to engage in research; publish material of relevance and interest to the field of pre-17th- Century Western Culture; to present activities and events which re-create the environment of said era, such as, but not limited to, tournaments, jousts, fairs, dances, classes, et cetera; to acquire authentic or reproduced replicas of chattels representative of said era; and to collect a library. So, in spite of the people uninterested in the stated reason for the SCA, there are people like myself, Drea and others who do the research in this way. By definition it is a "living history" group. The parts I find most difficult to reconcile is the tolerance for the post 1600 Western Europe and all the Oriental and Central American personas which are tolerated. However, it is set up as an inclusive group (with the hope that people will "grow" into the Western Culture part) rather than an exclusive group where you just about have to be perfect before you can play at all. For many of us, the SCA has given us a venue where we can do the costume and costume research, and have a place to wear it and teach/learn about it, rather than sitting home without a social occasion to wear it. (Shoot, I often wish that there was a group dedicated to the 18th C near me so that I have a chance other than Costume Con to pull out my 1755 French Watteau back sack dress. But then, I've got enough to do without adding a group which would spur me to make more of those dresses.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 22:29:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03855 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:29:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063VMi1013482; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063VK3V019371; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063UO3V019136 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:30:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip54.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.54]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h063UM429228 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:30:22 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E18863C.10188.1B9B666F@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E17E50A.21793.1925A233@localhost> In-reply-to: <200301051404.05069.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:23:40 -0800 Status: RO > > It varies by vegetable fibre (such as linen, ramie, hemp, nettle) > > because plants have their own "direction of spin", but the wool can > > be spun either direction. > > Hmm. I wonder if there is a preferred direction of spin for wool > anyway, though. Was the direction of spin for wool chosen to obtain > particular effects, or was it primarily a cultural thing? There is apparently no preferred spin direction for animal fibres such as wool or silk. Although it was sometimes spun for specific things like better mat production in fulling of wool and sometimes for special effects (such as the non-colored piece with stripes of S- spun and Z-spun threads in Margrethe Hald's Danish bog book, which in black and white *looks* like it has "colored" stripes), apparently the predominant vegetable fibre determined which spin was predominant for both wool and the vegetable fibre. There are some interesting documents discussing Egyptian wool compared to some of the wools from a different culture and how badly done they were. Originally it was thought that it was because Egypt (which used predominantly linen vegetable fibre) spun their threads in the opposite direction of the areas (who used more hemp fibres) and had prettier wool fabrics. They had noticed that the spin of the Egyptian threads were done in the opposite direction. However, later it was found that the culprit in the "bad wool" was not the way it was spun, but in the poorer quality of the wool in Egypt itself (which had coarser, more brittle, kinkier fibres than other areas.) > Thanks, as always, for the information. I can barely make a > tablet-woven belt myself, and I have never attempted to weave fabric. > So I have a hard time following discussions of spin and weave myself > (though I find them fascinating). Well, if you ever want to try it, look around for a weaving store which has classes. They frequently will have looms for in-store rent for class use. Or find a friend with a loom (which is what I did.) It can be really fun, although it is a royal pain in the tuckus to set up the warp for it. It's one of the primary reasons why I never went in for getting my own loom. Setting up for an inkle loom or a cardweaving project is enough of a pain for me. ;) And you can also get books on weaving. There are several good ones out there which talk about different loom types, how to set them up and what you can do on them. (I have more than 30 books on the subject of various looms and weaving patterns.) Also, there are many books (such as Agnes Geijer's History of Textiles and Margrethe Hald's Danish bog book) which are better at explaining this sort of stuff than I can be because they have pictures and drawings which make understanding this stuff much easier and relate it to the textiles themselves in an historic way (rather than as a "here is how you set up a loom to make modern handwovens for selling at craft fairs or boutiques.") Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 22:30:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03859 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:30:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063VWi1013502; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063VV3V019431; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063UQ3V019142 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:30:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip54.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.54]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h063UO429265 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:30:24 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E18863C.21226.1B9B684A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3E1868BD.5F3968C@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:23:40 -0800 Status: RO Sue wrote: > What about silk, though? > --sue > > kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > Cathy wrote: > > > I thought that it varied by fiber, with wool more likely to be > > > S-spun, flax (linen) to be Z-spun. > > > > It varies by vegetable fibre (such as linen, ramie, hemp, nettle) > > because plants have their own "direction of spin", but the wool can > > be spun either direction. (With the most common direction varying > > based on factors like the introduction of new technology such as the > > wheel and what the predominant vegetable fibre is for that area.) Silk does not have a preferred spin direction. In fact, because of the long length of the individual fibres (compared to vegetable fibres or wool), it can be used without any spinning at all. (It's an animal fibre. Animal fibres, except in cases where there is some weird genetic fluke, does not have a preferred spin direction. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 22:30:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03868 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:30:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063Vci1013515; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063Vc3V019457; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:31:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063US3V019157 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:30:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip54.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.54]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h063UQ429288 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:30:27 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Busts & Prudes/Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Message-ID: <3E188639.23590.1B9B5D55@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E17E509.128.19259E6E@localhost> In-reply-to: <8610A060-20F6-11D7-A91C-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:23:37 -0800 Status: RO > Indeed and very few survive that show a bare bosom. > As I understand the trend,a bare bosom indicated the maidenhood of the > young woman and her virginity.17thC doxies on the other hand are > reputed to have encarmined their nipples with cochenial to entice > customers.Our ancestors were a very hearty bunch back then,clearly > indicated by some of the more lurid ditties and plays that survive > intact. I don't know about the virginity part. The intact woodcut I've seen was of a woman serving dinner to her husband and the minister. Married women generally are no longer considered maidens or virgins. However, you are right about our ancestors being a hearty bunch! Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 22:43:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03906 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:43:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063j3i1014226; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063j13V022768; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h063iW3V022658 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:44:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip54.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.54]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h063iS003915 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:44:29 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Message-ID: <3E188999.30947.1BA88B43@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000e01c2b529$52b55fa0$8f1277d8@pavilion> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:38:01 -0800 Status: RO Lisa wrote: > From the Brigham Young University files 1980 > > The school had a rule that women could not wear jean to class. Snows > in Utah in the winter, very cold. A young woman wore jeans to class > on the day of her final and was not permitted access to the > examination room, so she went to the ladies room, removed her pants > and sat the exam in her trench coat and panties. > > Story hit the national papers too. Shortly thereafter the rule > changed. That wouldn't have flown in the schools I went to as there was also a rule about skirt length. She would still have been at the very least sent home from school, or if it were a repeat, expelled for wearing inappropriate clothing. When kneeling the skirt could be no more than 2" from the floor. Of course, about 2 years later we were wearing skirts so short that one of my dresses, called a babydoll dress, had its own set of bloomers to wear underneath. I still have the dress. We also wore dresses that short *without* the bloomers and we didn't have panty hose for another year or so. Thigh high nylons with garter belts or girdles. Boy, did that look weird with those short shirts! Oddly enough, we'd had "tights" since I had been small. I've never figured out why something as "intuitive" as nylon pantyhose weren't used even though we did have "tights". But that's in hindsight. (Same as the use of sanitary pads with a strip of adhesive we can't imagine living without instead of a garter belt to hold the pad in place. Who needed underwear before we had the adhesive pads?) But then, even with the ultra-short skirts we still couldn't wear any sort of trousers. (My senior year of school was the first time I had ever been allowed to wear trousers to school. But that was for one day only: senior slacks day. No jeans allowed. But then, the boys weren't allowed to wear jeans to school either.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 23:02:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03977 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:02:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06444i1015075; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064413V027295; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0643R3V027149 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:03:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18VOU1-00008g-00; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 23:03:25 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 18VOU1-00054h-00; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 23:03:25 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:03:25 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I love my Vikings, had them for 20 years, and I work them hard. My mother, also a professional seamstress, does alterations nowadays, swears by her Elna's. Got a new one 2-3 years ago and loves it, giving 20 year old maching to my niece. She works her machines hard, altering wedding dresses mostly. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 23:27:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04032 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:27:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064T2i1016123; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064T13V003587; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064SE3V003447 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:28:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from gti.net (ts6m-pool0-80.gti.net [208.216.115.80]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id A048B35441 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:28:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E1905DF.2A0D3A67@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlibrary loan References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030104182620.009feec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 23:28:15 -0500 Status: RO Heather, There is also a bio of the House of Worth called "A Century of Fashion" by Charles Fredericks' son, Jean-PhilippeWorth, published in 1928 by Little Brown & Co. Plus, I would check fashion magazines from that year & maybe 1-2 years preceding & following. That's not my era, so I'm not sure of but I think "Harper's Bazar" (sp) was out, & of course "Godey's" & "Petersons" were definitely out. ~Deb R. > Did a quick search & here's what I came up with for Worth: > > The age of Worth: Couturier to the Empress Eugénie. > Edith Saunders > > Worth : father of haute couture / > Diana De Marly > > The Opulent Era : Fashions of Worth, Doucet and Pingat / > Elizabeth A Coleman > (This one will make you drool on the pages!) > > The House of Worth fashion designs : a photographic record. > Victoria and Albert Museum. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 23:35:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04057 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:35:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064b3i1016580; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064b13V005480; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064at3V005445 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:36:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 27420131 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 23:36:49 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c2b53d$1ddc3b00$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030105193556.03f7bea8@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Medici exhibit in Chicago - exhibit catalog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:36:00 -0600 Status: RO Just to confirm - yep that's the book! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF There's no such thing as too many books! lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- > > Apparently, my local discounter already has it, for > $44.95: http://www.strandbooks.com/profile/?isbn=0300094957&itemno=0 > > I'll have to walk around the corner at lunch time to see what their stock is... > > > > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 23:52:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04105 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:52:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064s3i1017327; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064s13V009408; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064rp3V009369 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:53:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-16-241.o1.jps.net ([216.119.16.241] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VPGn-0005RS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 20:53:50 -0800 Message-ID: <000601c2b540$974f82a0$f11077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <3E188999.30947.1BA88B43@localhost> Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:00:03 -0800 Status: RO I wrote: > > From the Brigham Young University files 1980 > > > > The school had a rule that women could not wear jean to class. Snows > > in Utah in the winter, very cold. A young woman wore jeans to class > > on the day of her final and was not permitted access to the > > examination room, so she went to the ladies room, removed her pants > > and sat the exam in her trench coat and panties. > > > > Story hit the national papers too. Shortly thereafter the rule > > changed. Kat wrote: > That wouldn't have flown in the schools I went to as there was also a > rule about skirt length. At BYU (a mormon university) women could wear pants, but not jean as they did not want to encourage the behaviour that women who wear jeans exhibit. Their explaination, not mine. But a woman wearing a trench coat and panties was too sexually provocative. I mean, they couldn't have a rule that skirts had to be worn under trench coats and have university standards check up on adherence. The press would have had a field day. Plus I think they realized that jeans were an everyday item and not a symbol of rebellion by that time. It is funny to me how institutions today can be about rules that specifically involve the exhibition of legs. Some places insist that women show their legs, no pants allowed, an example workplaces like hotels with uniformed positions. Yet a Muslim culture would often insist a woman wear pants to avoid showing them. And what about a professional workplace that permits men to be formally dressed with any leg exposed? Not in the US. Shorts are only for casual wear. I think breeches for men should come back in style! That would be loads of fun!!! Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 5 23:57:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04110 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:57:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064x2i1017585; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064x13V010481; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h064wI3V010333 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:58:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06045 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:09:16 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! In-Reply-To: <001f01c2b532$bb8bf8a0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:09:16 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > In this discussion of wheelfarthingale, is there some confusion > between wire crinolines and farthingales? The photo being discussed > is certainly from the 19th Century, and has all the aspects of a > crinoline (hoop) and not the skirt distenders known from earlier > periods. The original post on this thread presented a quotation from 1617 regarding a farthingale of a particular size. One of the followups to that post presented the much later crinoline photograph as an example of another skirt structure, from a different period, for purposes of size comparison. I hope no one mistook this as a statement that the crinoline is the same as a farthingale. They are two very different beasts. But in general, this is an area of some confusion. Costume historians of the 18th and 19th centuries tended to assume that the c. 1600 farthingale was built using similar methods to the skirt extenders of their own periods. This has, in my view, contributed to an erroneous view today that the farthingales of c. 1600 were wired or boned frameworks like panniers or crinolines. The evidence from the farthingale period itself does not support this commonly held view. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 00:18:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04194 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:18:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065K6i1018496; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:20:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065K03V015905; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065JB3V015672 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a224.in-tch.com [66.62.107.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0652kP25253 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:02:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1911F2.51A77DF6@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 22:19:46 -0700 Status: RO oooh! One of those "seems intuitive" things? --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, MaryAnn Jones wrote: > > > I also have been using some commercial patterns for Elizabethan > > dresses, which I rarely do, but I lost my pattern. The use darts and > > have no gathers at the waist. As you said, with our modern > > sensibilities, those things seem completely intuitive. They wouldn't > > have 500 years ago. maryann > > When I was very new to this, I remember once someone insisting to me that > side bust darts were an essential and logical approach for shaping around > the bust on a 14th-century fitted dress -- "because the fabric just folds > that way naturally, and they would have seen that happen because it always > happens." In working out my own construction, I found that if you change > the sequence of construction steps, shift the bust to a non-modern > position, and use a flexible wool or linen, you don't get the > characteristic "dart fold," and probably couldn't make one if you tried. > What seems obvious in a modern approach may not work the same when you > apply a period technique and period materials. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 00:33:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04215 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:33:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065Z3i1019013; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065Z03V019254; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tyler.snap.net.nz (tyler.snap.net.nz [202.37.101.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065YK3V019140 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from p38-dialup.snap.net.nz ([203.97.31.38] helo=ajax) by tyler.snap.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 ) id 18VPts-0001E9-00 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 18:34:12 +1300 Received: from libre ([192.168.255.21]) by ajax with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 18VPuZ-0007rT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 18:34:55 +1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jennifer Geard To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <3E16A72A.9143.144BC2C9@localhost> <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301061828.53468.geard@verso.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h065YK3V019140 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:28:53 +1300 Status: RO Kat: > Now I'm getting myself confused. According to the MOL books, most > early wheel spun is done S. Certainly the pieces of modern woolens > seem to be S-spun. However, other books seem to say that Z-spun is > more common. Hald seems to use the direction of spin as one factor to help date early textiles, but that's because they tend to be consistent within a time and place, not becuse they were always one way before a given and always another way afterwards. > > Kat, could you clarify whether you mean that medieval spinning on > > the great wheel was S-spun? > > From what I've read, clockwise spun. While they could be done in the > opposite spin, there was apparently a tendency to spin only > clockwise. Sounds fascinating, and you've got me wondering about whether there's a twist in the drive-band of medieval spinning wheels, since clockwise on the driving wheel will spin S only if there's a twist in the driveband between the driving wheel and the spindle (i.e. the driveband's a figure-eight rather than a circle). I pulled out my "Medieval rural life in the Luttrell Psalter" and, despite some rather cubist perspective, there's the twist in the driveband. If the Luttrell drive wheel was spun clockwise it looks like it would turn the spindle anti-clockwise which would indeed produce S-spun. I'm still figuring out the position of the spinster, however, since she seems to be either beating the wheel anti-clockwise or stopping the wheel at her maximum draw, and I would have expected her to be able to go straight from spinning to winding on by angling the thread without stopping the wheel. Have we got off the topic of historical costume yet? :-) > Even with modern wheels, many are set up to be used for spinning in > only one direction. It's awkward to use it in the opposite direction > or the mechanism doesn't work quite right (depending on the type.) Maybe this is a matter of what you're used to. Both my original Little Peggy upright and my current Ashford Traditional spin equally well in either direction with a flick or two of the foot (the new double treadle and polymer driveband make control even easier: have you ever noticed how spinners can sound a lot like car enthusiasts when talking about hotting up spinning-wheels?). I rather suspect that the members of the Spinners and Weavers Guild I learned with would have had little time for a temperamental wheel: they were primarily interested in spinning for knitting, knitting wool is almost always plied, and to spin and ply on the same wheel the wheel must be able to spin both S and Z. If it doesn't, send it back. > >In the woven cloths you're describing, are all > > the threads singles, or is there a plied warp and a singles weft? > > From Geijer to Hald to the MOL books, I can't find any mention of > plied warps in the threads they've examined from the medieval period. > (Not to say plied threads were never used, but they talk about S- > spin/Z-spun threads not S-plied/Z-plied threads. If I've missed it, > please tell me the page numbers where it is found.) No, I think that's right. I was just wondering about uses for plied yarns, and building up to a detour on tablet weaving. > > Modern spinning-wheel spinning can be either S-spun or Z-spun. It > > depends entirely on the direction the spinner starts the wheel > > turning, and can be a trap for new spinners if they forget and > > change direction after a break. The Luttrell Psalter spinning wheel > > looks like it could be used in either direction as well, depending > > on whethere the spinster turned the wheel clockwise or > > anti-clockwise. Modern commercial spinning is another matter > > entirely, I was just surprised to see the comment about > > wheel-spinning. > > It really depends on your wheel. Some are only done from the R side > turning clockwise. Some are set up done from the L side, but still > clockwise. Some work doing clockwise or counterclockwise depending on > how you set up the fly. (Spindles are much easier in some ways. You > can do it either way depending on your mood at the moment you begin > the spinning.) This is one of the reasons I'm getting curious about the cubist perspective on the Luttrell Psalter wheel. It _looks_ as though the spindle is sticking out away from the drive wheel, rather than perpendicular to it like a modern wheel once you get past all the modern flier frou-frou. This would make a wheel that could be spun from either side, so that you could get S and Z and still keep your quasi-ritual clockwise turning of the wheel. However, the position of the thread and the spinster would be very awkward if that's what's going on. Must drag out some more examples from later times and see if there are any more hints about the drive trains of early spinning wheels. Yes, spindles have a lot going for them, including being reasonably easy to reproduce in a form you can use in-game, and the extra productivity that comes with mobility when you're not willing to be tied to your wheel throughout an event. > It's interesting because it looks like many areas have conventions > depending on the type of bast fibre they started spinning with > spindles. If you spin linen the way you would hemp, it goes "against > the grain" of the fibre. With wool it can be spun either way, but the > conventions usually follow the predominant bast type. Sounds reasonable, and rings a distant bell. Do you have any sources I could track down? > She also discusses how the twist of the fibre can make a pattern > which is nearly as obvious to the eye as using dyed threads. > Beautiful stuff (even if it is just fragments. I always imagine what > it is that the garment or item it came from looked like.) I must say that this took my fancy the first time I heard about it. It's not something I expect ever to be able to buy through commercial sources, so unless some keen and skilled spinners and weavers have a go it's not going to happen. > > If you want to be really nit-picky, you can take some advice > > Carolyn Priest-Dorman gave me a decade ago and use the direction of > > spin to make continuous-twist tablet-weaving more even. The twist > > of the tablets during weaving is itself a form of plying, so by > > matching the twist of the threads to the twist of the cards you'll > > avoid having some cards that produce puffy (balanced twist) weaving > > while others produce tight (over-twist) weaving. > > Yep. But getting commercially spun threads of the opposite spin is a > pain. ;) (I guess this is a time when you have to spin your own or > pay someone to spin it for you.) That's the one. And it's not even a hugely arduous amount of spinning, so it might even be worth it. :-) > > I have no problem with the idea of purchasing appropriate cloth for > > costuming. I do think it's difficult -- sometimes not possible -- > > to find commercial cloths that match some historical types of > > cloths, and that's where you get to the question of how a > > low-thread-count handwoven broken-lozenge twill stacks up against a > > plain commercial twill. Part of it's about the finished products, > > but part of it's also a strategic choice about encouraging early > > attempts if the attempter is the sort of person who might go on to > > produce really good stuff down the line. A lot of it is about > > education: rediscovering and transmitting knowledge which would > > have been passed on in a lengthy and comprehensive apprenticeship. > > It's a long-term issue for many living history groups. > > Exactly. And it also depends on how much you want to do the other > things. For example, I like to handsew, I like pattern making and I > like to research. I've tried spinning, weaving, etc (and I've done a > lot of dyeing), but I'd much rather actually make a garment than put > my effort into making the fabric to make the garment. Also, I figure > that I'd be using bought, finished fabrics anyway, not producing them > myself. (Not a subsistence kind of gal.) Fair enough. I must say that fabric-weaving is not my favourite thing and doesn't generally pass the cost-benefit analysis for me. But using only what is available to us through modern commercial sources skews our recreation towards what is normal now, eliminating some types of gear that were reasonably common then. For most of us this is a compromise we accept for practical reasons, but if people are willing to broaden our range of recreation by reproducing historical items and techniques that are not readily available in the modern world, more power to them. Cheers, Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 00:38:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04220 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:38:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065e3i1019171; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065e13V020336; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065du3V020307 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:39:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06176 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:50:54 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable In-Reply-To: <3E188999.30947.1BA88B43@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:50:53 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > Oddly enough, we'd had "tights" since I had been small. I've never > figured out why something as "intuitive" as nylon pantyhose weren't > used even though we did have "tights". But that's in hindsight. Of course, if we'd had pantyhose first, we might have then switched to single stockings for the benefit of not having to throw out the pair when we ran one leg. The real killer app here was thigh-highs with elastic tops that remove the need for the garters. I remember Ann Landers "settling" an argument about whether one should wear underwear with pantyhose by saying that the name pantyhose itself implied that the panties were included, so no other underwear was needed. That was back when the top part of the pantyhose really looked like a panty. This soon gave way to the version that was essentially transparent nylon all over, requiring panties if you wanted any coverage, but these had a "cotton crotch" that suggested that panties were not expected to be worn. > (Same as the use of sanitary pads with a strip of adhesive we can't > imagine living without instead of a garter belt to hold the pad in > place. Who needed underwear before we had the adhesive pads?) And for many years after the adhesive pads were standard, bathroom machines still sold the garter-belt version ... with the usual two safety pins in the box to hold them in the panties. I would kill for equivalent practical tidbits from 500 years ago. I can imagine medieval women sharing tips on the most convenient ways to arrange underlayers. (Or am I just assuming they would, because we do? That "modern intuition" issue again...) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 00:46:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04242 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:46:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065m6i1019412; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065m03V022025; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m15.bos.untd.com (m15.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h065l13V021847 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"zDT9J7+GjNHhZUZmXWsl4EYLskECbZQD0uA4O3mZB2ivZLmTE7hFSw=="> Received: (from luann.mason@juno.com) by m15.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMTPFU5Q; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 00:46:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Message-ID: <20030105.214223.-3897811.14.luann.mason@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-16,18-19 From: luann.mason@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:23:24 -0800 Status: RO On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:14:18 -0800 "Lisa Sinervo" writes: > From the Brigham Young University files 1980 > > The school had a rule that women could not wear jean to class. > Snows in > Utah in the winter, very cold. A young woman wore jeans to class > on the > day of her final and was not permitted access to the examination > room, so > she went to the ladies room, removed her pants and sat the exam in > her > trench coat and panties. > > Story hit the national papers too. Shortly thereafter the rule > changed. Actually, the rule changed the next year to allow pants (but not jeans) and jeans weren't allowed for a couple of more years. :-) LuAnn who was there too... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 00:53:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04250 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:53:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065t4i1019672; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065t23V023484; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h065sP3V023347 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:54:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003010605541900100ardfte>; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 05:54:19 +0000 Message-ID: <0c5001c2b548$a0bbcc10$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:57:16 -0600 Status: RO I remember a few years ago the thread on this part was started and then closed due to the gross nature the thread turned to. Then someone posted a new list being created to discuss that one aspect of feminine hygiene. I will look through the archives I have to see what that list address was and you can probably find the archive to it with some of the answers you are seeking. :) Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable snip ________________________________________ > > I would kill for equivalent practical tidbits from 500 years ago. I can > imagine medieval women sharing tips on the most convenient ways to arrange > underlayers. (Or am I just assuming they would, because we do? That > "modern intuition" issue again...) > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 01:09:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04278 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 01:09:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h066B7i1020195; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h066B43V027022; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h066As3V026926 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:10:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06271 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:21:51 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable In-Reply-To: <0c5001c2b548$a0bbcc10$31baee0c@c59303a> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:21:51 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, chiara wrote: > I remember a few years ago the thread on this part was started and > then closed due to the gross nature the thread turned to. Then someone > posted a new list being created to discuss that one aspect of feminine > hygiene. I will look through the archives I have to see what that list > address was and you can probably find the archive to it with some of > the answers you are seeking. :) Well, when I said "convenient ways to arrange underlayers," I was thinking not just about menstrual cloths and other hygiene mechanics, but rather the more general issues equivalent to the "do you wear panties with pantyhose" issue. E.g. tricks for keeping your chemise neckline in proper alignment with your gown neckline, or for keeping your scarf or partlet tucked, or preventing various layers from riding up or twisting around. Or ways of gartering your hosen, or of tucking away the end of your lacing so it wouldn't get tangled, or keeping headgear in place, and so on. I remember all sorts of tricks we had for keeping our clothes in place even in this era of supposedly more practical clothing. My college roommate would tuck her blouses into her bikini panties so the shirt hems wouldn't slide up and possibly out of the waistband of her hip-hugger jeans. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Netherton" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 11:50 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable > > > snip > > I would kill for equivalent practical tidbits from 500 years ago. I can > > imagine medieval women sharing tips on the most convenient ways to arrange > > underlayers. (Or am I just assuming they would, because we do? That > > "modern intuition" issue again...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 01:29:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04314 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 01:29:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h066V6i1020772; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:31:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h066V43V001310; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f137.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h066UQ3V001130 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:30:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:30:20 -0800 Received: from 208.141.181.194 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 06:30:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.141.181.194] From: "Elizabeth Clark" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2003 06:30:20.0808 (UTC) FILETIME=[161FB080:01C2B54D] Subject: [h-cost] Re:Clothing Oddities Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 23:30:20 -0700 Status: RO Snip from message: "Ooo, you mean like 3 piece suits (jacket, vest and pants, with shirt and undershirt) worn by men in unairconditioned business offices in the 1950s and before?" Actually, if those are wool suits and cotton shirts/unders, it's a good "air conditioning" system all its own... I wear similar layers in wool, in the summer, for mid-19thc stuff, and your body adapts. You sweat, yes, but the cotton absorbs that, and then the wool wicks it away, and you stay fairly comfortable. Even today, summer-weight/tropical weight wool suiting is lighter than many cottons! Anti-perspirant interferes greatly though, by inhibiting the ability to sweat, and therefore, stalemating the evaporative cooling. But otherwise, its a functional, intuitive system... when viewed from historic eyes. Regards, Elizabeth http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 02:10:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08864 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 02:10:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h067C2i1022136; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h067C03V010106; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20209.mail.yahoo.com (web20209.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h067Bd3V010030 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:11:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030106071138.33253.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 18:11:38 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030105.150018.440.3.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Italian coif question (was Authenticity-questions to ponder) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:11:38 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Question re: coifs: my persona occaisionally does > Ren Italian--I was > wondering it the Italian women wore coifs and if so, > where I might find > pictures and patterns. Hi Arlys, I have seen one depiction of an Italian woman wearing what looks very like the "muffin cap" style of coif. The woman on our right in this pic wears one: Here is another pic of a woman who is wearing a simple coif, but in this case it looks like a sheer fabric, embellished along the edges with pearls: They did wear cauls quite often though. You can find info/patterns at the Elizabethan Costuming Page: Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 02:19:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14129 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 02:19:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h067L3i1022399; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h067L13V011937; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h067K83V011730 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AE27E4410128; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:20:07 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AE2296900DE; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:20:02 -0600 Message-ID: <029b01c2b553$aeebd7c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Anniversaries Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 02:17:33 -0500 Status: RO I almost forgot this... I didn't forget when I had to renew my domain names this past week but forgot it was our anniversaries. Monday, the Costume Classroom's 5th Anniversary. Saturday was the Costume Classroom's 2nd Anniversary. Actually the first webpages have been on the web since June 30, 1996. But I officially got the domain name costumegallery.com on Jan. 6, 1998. YIPPEEEEEEEE! Popping the top on the bubbly and passing it around! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 02:52:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02003 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 02:52:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h067s3i1023614; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h067s13V018514; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h067rB3V018328 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A5E653270100; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:53:10 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A5E12402C8; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:53:05 -0600 Message-ID: <02ad01c2b558$45ecede0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Costume Gallery Trivia Contest Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 02:50:24 -0500 Status: RO I am only opening this contest up to people on my newsletter and h-costume email lists. This contest is in celebration of our anniveraries. Why h-costume? Because you all have inspired and supported me throughout the years. TRIVIA CONTEST Some trivia about The Costume Gallery websites.... see if you can answer these. Please send me your answers at penny@costumegallery.com . Whoever gets the most questions correct, wins a prize. I am giving out three prizes, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places. I will post the answers after I decide who the winners are. 1. What was the name of my first website from June 30, 1996- Nov. 1997. HINT: This was my website that I created in college and turned into my business. 2. What is the oldest section of the Gallery? 3. What is the second oldest section of the Gallery? 4. What is the name of the first two photograph webpages that I put up on the website? They are two completely different areas. They are still on the site. Send me the URLs. 5. How often do I change the Lady Penny image on the front page of the Gallery? 6. Who is my assistant? I know some of you know her first name is Susan, but what is her last name? Hint: It is on one of the websites. For those taking classes... don't be clever and write her. She's not telling. 7. What was the first magazine with fashion articles, month and year, that I put online? 8. How many visitors have all three websites, the Gallery, the Ball, and Classroom, received from Jan. 6, 1998 to Jan. 6, 2003. HINT: you might want to give a mixed number, if the contest is close. I will total the exact number at the close of the day Monday. 9. Who is in the logo of the 1998 Online Costume Ball? 10. Who were the first three instructors for the Costume Classroom? Send me your answers in an email message with the subject header, TRIVIA CONTEST. The only day I am accepting answers to the contest on Monday, Jan. 6. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 04:59:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16301 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 04:59:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06A15i1026605; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 03:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06A113V011694; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 03:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21203.mail.yahoo.com (web21203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06A0a3V011612 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 03:00:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030106100035.68751.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [57.66.41.170] by web21203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 10:00:35 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:00:35 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Marsha Hamilton wrote: > For example, on the skirt/trouser issue in the > 1950s... > I can't count the number of times I stood out in > sub-zero weather in deep > snow freezing to death waiting for the school bus to > come. Dressed in my > 1950's knee length skirts, .. Same here, but 1970s. > Not because it was smart or warm but because that > was the only style of > clothing available and acceptable--both by peers and > the school system. Quite. *I* knew it was stupid, but the people making the Rules weren't the ones getting cold and wet. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 09:05:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17286 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:05:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06E6hi3003700; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06E0M3V026911; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:00:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06DxJ3V026644 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 06:59:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.106] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AA1D17660256; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 08:52:29 -0500 Message-ID: <007d01c2b58c$38208760$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:02:14 -0500 Status: RO Thankyou Robin for the clarification. I must have missed the first post of the discussion. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > In this discussion of wheelfarthingale, is there some confusion > > between wire crinolines and farthingales? The photo being discussed > > is certainly from the 19th Century, and has all the aspects of a > > crinoline (hoop) and not the skirt distenders known from earlier > > periods. > > The original post on this thread presented a quotation from 1617 regarding > a farthingale of a particular size. One of the followups to that post > presented the much later crinoline photograph as an example of another > skirt structure, from a different period, for purposes of size comparison. > I hope no one mistook this as a statement that the crinoline is the same > as a farthingale. They are two very different beasts. > > But in general, this is an area of some confusion. Costume historians of > the 18th and 19th centuries tended to assume that the c. 1600 farthingale > was built using similar methods to the skirt extenders of their own > periods. This has, in my view, contributed to an erroneous view today that > the farthingales of c. 1600 were wired or boned frameworks like panniers > or crinolines. The evidence from the farthingale period itself does not > support this commonly held view. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 09:24:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17325 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:24:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06EPWi1004400; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:25:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06EPE3V002877; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06EOC3V002638 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:24:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030106142410.33608.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:24:10 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E16A72A.19009.144BC0CB@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:24:10 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > For things where a sewing machine works (as opposed to things like > cartridge pleats), I feel that it's perfectly acceptable to use a > sewing machine since it does an approximation of a double running > stitch. (That doesn't mean that I don't completely handsew garments > for the fun of it. I do. However, I have a lot of hand impaired > friends who can't do it and I make sure they know that I only do the > "full handsewn" thing for fun.) Also, it depends on what you are making and for which period. A fifth century peplos gown, for example, cannot be machien sewn, because it just doesn't look right. The seams we use are based on bog finds from 1st c. AD to 5th c. (the latter usually seams and pieces of fabric corroded onto the backs of brooches and buckles) and they show clearly what kind of weave was used (diamond twill mostly) and what kind of seams. Having made several garments out of reproduced diamond twill (that a weaving mill had specially done for us) with the most common seam types, you can believe me that there is no way this can be reproduced by machine. Then again it's not so much of a problem, because the seam types are fast to make and quite fun to work. It gives a lovely wavy line. On the other hand I wouldn't even dream of completely handsewing a 1700 suit for ben or anything for myself. Having studied the seams in the extant clothing I can only say that I would need many more years of handsewing experience to reprudce such fine stitching (and no repetitive strain problems in my right arm/hand). At the same time I never sew in a sleeve by machine, but by hand, with a stitch that was used back then. At first I thought it would be more difficult, but oh no, I was amazed to find out that everything looked much more 'right' and went in smoothly. I guess we can be very arrogant in thinking the way we do it _now_ is a better/faster/more efficient one. Nope... Nicole - with the worst flu for years, three days and nights and it's the first time I can sit up. ACK! Someone send piccies of FO's to cheer me up, phuleeze! :-) ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 09:27:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17340 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:27:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06ETEi1004563; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:29:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06ETB3V003856; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:29:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06ESR3V003697 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:28:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030106142827.26078.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:28:27 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:28:27 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- sylvia wrote: > I bought the Pfaff 2020 a couple years ago and have been very happy with it. > My decision to go with Pfaff was based on their inclusion of the dual feed > foot, which none of the other brands had at the time. I don't know if any > of them have subsequently included it. No, Pfaff is still the only one, even though they were bought by Husquarna (or was that Viking?) > The one thing I don't like about the Pfaff is the buttonholer, so I always > go back to my ancient Singer with a buttonhole attachment when I need to sew > in buttonholes. I think other barnds have similar buttonholers. I would > try them out in the store on more difficult fabrics. They always seem to > work fine on easy fabrics like cottons, but I am rarely using them on easy > fabrics. I have the Pfaff 7050 and it has three options for buttonholes, using the buttonholer, with fully automatic or half automatic, or making buttonholes without automatic. I love it, even on really difficult fabric like ben's two layer plus thick linen innerlining thick uniform coat. The best is their buttonholes with a thick thread running through them, looks lovely. I do agree though I rarely use the automatic buttonholes, they just don't work on anything beyond thin cotton without thicker seams anywhere near. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 09:31:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17364 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:31:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06EXBi1004914; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:33:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06EX33V004831; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:33:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06EWd3V004728 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:32:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030106143238.26757.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:32:38 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001201c2b404$7c792c20$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:32:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > A while back, Husqvarna bought Pfaff. Doh! Didn't read your post before I snet mine, now did I? Thanks for clarifying this. They continue to produce the Pfaff > line separately, at a factory in eastern Europe, NOT in Germany. Well that's funny, because there IS a Pfaff factory in Germany where Pfaff machines are built. > But the best machines, especially in terms of quality craftsmanship and > lasting forever, are Berninas. I beg to differ, I still say in my opinion that Pfaff is the best, but it's the same with cars, whatever one was lucky with (and mum and grandmum) that is the best in one's opinion, while it often depends on the individual machine. > Forget Singer, unless it's 60 years old and made of cast iron. I fully agree! They turned nastily plastic years ago. Nicole - back to bed ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 10:06:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17534 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:06:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06F7mi1006282; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:07:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06F7lCH013542; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:07:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06F3n3V012353 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:03:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h06Eg0l23111 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 06:42:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VYS0-0006G3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 06:42:00 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Message-ID: <000601c2b591$c6a6f0f0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <001f01c2b532$bb8bf8a0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:42:02 -0700 Status: RO I don't think there is confusion-I think I just caused a diversion in the conversation. With the photo I was responding to the great width of the wheel farthingale by mentioning that there were other fashion extravagances later on. And, as you have pointed out, while the photo may be a spoof, it is not far off the numerous fashion plates and catalog selections seen in Boucher's book and elsewhere. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 10:10:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17540 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:10:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06FC1i1006721; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06FC1CH015390; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06FBRCH015130 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwebc21 ([204.127.135.60]) by mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with SMTP id <20030106151121.QDAJ12483.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc21> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:11:21 +0000 Received: from [67.9.28.218] by mtiwebc21; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:11:20 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 25 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 Message-Id: <20030106151121.QDAJ12483.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc21> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:11:20 +0000 Status: RO Between me and my mother we've managed to "kill" two Viking machines. Before I decided to buy a new machine, I took in some of my costumes to the local Viking dealer and showed the store owner some of the things I sew and how many layers of piping and trims and such I apply. After I explained all the different types of sewing I do and the sewing my mother does ( she costumes the local opera!), the store owner actually refused to sell me a machine. To quote her" I don't have a machine that will sew what you need it to. Go to the Singer dealer, their machines are built sturdier." Bought a Singer school model after having the same show and tell session and haven't had any problems since, besides the usual five mile tune-ups. Crissy > > I love my Vikings, had them for 20 years, and I work them hard. My > mother, also a professional seamstress, does alterations nowadays, > swears by her Elna's. Got a new one 2-3 years ago and loves it, giving > 20 year old maching to my niece. She works her machines hard, altering > wedding dresses mostly. > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 10:10:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17544 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06FCDi1006802; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:12:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06FCCCH015477; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:12:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06FBjCH015280 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:11:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h06F2cf29143 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:02:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from 216-119-5-79.cw2.jps.net ([216.119.5.79] helo=pavilion) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VYlx-0001xP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 07:02:37 -0800 Message-ID: <001301c2b595$aca8e6a0$4f0577d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030105.214223.-3897811.14.luann.mason@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:09:54 -0800 Status: RO Actually, the rule changed the next year to allow pants (but not jeans) and jeans weren't allowed for a couple of more years. :-) LuAnn who was there too... This is interesting. I attented BYU from 1982-83 just when women were allowed to wear jeans to class but most of the editorials and cartoons were still around for me to read about the event and I discussed it with a number of people who were there. But I remembered the story in terms of my own concerns, that is, whether or not I would be able to wear jeans. Wow! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:14:18 -0800 "Lisa Sinervo" > writes: > > From the Brigham Young University files 1980 > > > > The school had a rule that women could not wear jean to class. > > Snows in > > Utah in the winter, very cold. A young woman wore jeans to class > > on the > > day of her final and was not permitted access to the examination > > room, so > > she went to the ladies room, removed her pants and sat the exam in > > her > > trench coat and panties. > > > > Story hit the national papers too. Shortly thereafter the rule > > changed. > > Actually, the rule changed the next year to allow pants (but not jeans) > and jeans weren't allowed for a couple of more years. :-) > > LuAnn who was there too... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 10:21:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17572 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:21:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06FKTj3007298; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:23:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Exj3V011298; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:00:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mcprox.methodist.edu (mail.methodist.edu [204.84.112.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06EvQ3V010712 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by mcprox.methodist.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:52:17 -0500 Received: from 36kls01feswe (36kls01feswe.methodist.edu [10.10.50.138]) by mcprox.methodist.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id CNN3XCZY; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:52:09 -0500 From: Rebecca Wendelken To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <012501c2b593$d492b6c0$8a320a0a@methodist.edu> References: <20021231190008.7376.87067.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dyeing with tumeric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:56:45 -0500 Status: RO This question was on around Christmas, but I'm just getting caught up. Instead of getting the tumeric from the local chain grocery, see if you can find an Indian or Pakistani grocery. You can get several times the amout of tumeric for the same price you would pay for the little bottle -- and it's fresher. It takes a lot of tumeric to get a good color. You can also check International Farmers' Markets (Atlanta has a big one) for raw tumeric. Haven't tried that, but could be very interesting. I've used the powdered form for both cotton and wool with good results. I use an alum mordant and then place the fabric in a concentrated dye bath for an extended period of time. You do get a lot of sludge from tumeric, but you also get a wonderful scent! I suppose if the sludge bothers you, you could make the "dye" by cooking the tumeric power in water until it gives up its coloring and then filter out the sludge before you do the dyeing. I do that when I dye with henna. Fu'il _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 10:48:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17665 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:48:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Fo2i1009603; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Fo0CH002420; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06FnSCH002127 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:49:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06FnS912489 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:49:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.236] (tnt-1-44.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.236]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06FnQm12465 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:49:26 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] French Seams? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:45:53 -0800 Status: RO At 1:12 PM -0800 1/1/03, lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: >One reason i asked about French seams is that i'm in the process of >making a 16th century Ottoman woman's outfit. > >A woman's gomlek is a white undertunic. As far as i have been able >to determine, they were made of sheer cotton or silk. None seem to >have survived, as far as i can tell, and paintings only show the hem >(most only the very bottom, but some from the mid-thighs down) and >sleeves (some from elbows to wrist) and a bit of the neckline. So >i'm guessing at the upper sleeve shape and the construction of body >from shoulder to mid-thighs. >French seams are, in my opinion, the nicest for fine sheer fabrics, >but since they appear to be too late in time, i wonder what would be >an effective, more historically accurate solution. I'm guessing hand >turning every raw edge and running stitching them... Any other >suggestions? Just as another example of what people _have_ done with very fine fabrics in this situation (but dreadfully far away in time in the opposite direction) the most common seaming technique used with very fine Pharaonic linens was to do a tiny rolled hem on both pieces and then overcast the two hems together. I've done this on several items (a medium-light linen for a full-sized dress, and an extremely fine linen for a set of doll garments) and while it's very labor-intensive, the results are very satisfactory. Absolutely no ravelling problems and the seams are flexible and not particularly bulky. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 10:53:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17683 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:53:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Ft1i1010077; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Ft0CH004721; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Fs7CH004264 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:54:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p5.directcon.net [206.170.184.104]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h06FroLn019629; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:53:51 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030106075748.00abfe20@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable In-Reply-To: <0c5001c2b548$a0bbcc10$31baee0c@c59303a> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 07:57:48 -0800 Status: RO At 11:57 PM 01/05/2003 -0600, chiara wrote: >I remember a few years ago the thread on this part was started and then >closed due to the gross nature the thread turned to. Then someone posted a >new list being created to discuss that one aspect of feminine hygiene. I >will look through the archives I have to see what that list address was and >you can probably find the archive to it with some of the answers you are >seeking. :) > That was H-fem. Unfotunately, Yahoo closed it a while back for lack of activity, and I didn't copy the archives. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 11:15:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17777 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:15:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06GH3i1012650; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06GH09Y016362; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.mail.adelphia.net [64.8.50.202] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06GGN9Y015937 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:16:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.65.178.255] by mta3.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.25 201-253-122-126-125-20021216) with ESMTP id <20030106160515.FTHT1364.mta3.adelphia.net@[68.65.178.255]> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:05:15 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re:[h-cost] Buying a sewing machine From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030106145803.10962.54597.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 11:10:08 -0500 Status: RO on 1/6/03 9:58 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > I beg to differ, I still say in my opinion that Pfaff is the best, but it's > the > same with cars, whatever one was lucky with (and mum and grandmum) that is the > best in one's opinion, while it often depends on the individual machine. > >> Forget Singer, unless it's 60 years old and made of cast iron. > > I fully agree! They turned nastily plastic years ago. i have a singer merritt, and i like it just fine. i've moved w/it several times, dropped it, had it cleaned infrequently and just generally tried to run it into the ground. it hasn't died on me yet, knock on wood. i've sewn everything from tissue silk to layers of heavy canvas. i have found that it doesn't like some kinds of fusable interfacing, but i don't use it much. the parts are easy to find and it's easy to run. did i mention i've had it for 15 years (so far...). > Nicole - back to bed hope you feel better! laurie > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 11:24:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17806 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:24:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06GP1i1013660; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06GP09Y020743; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06GOu9Y020691 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:24:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:21:21 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Italian coif question (was Authenticity-questions to ponder) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 In-Reply-To: <20030106071138.33253.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:29:26 -0600 Status: RO I don't know...that doesn't look like a coif to me, but rather more of a reta...? Talia Here is another pic of a woman who is wearing a simple coif, but in this case it looks like a sheer fabric, embellished along the edges with pearls: Bella _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 11:32:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17843 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:32:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06GX2i1014685; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06GX19Y025035; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06GW59Y024575 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:32:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030106163201.69369.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 16:32:01 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re:[h-cost] Buying a sewing machine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:32:01 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > the parts are easy to find and it's easy to run. did i mention i've had it > for 15 years (so far...). Hmm.. hut had they already changed to plastic 15 years ago? Still, I do believe that there is no 'general best' sewing machine as much as there is no 'general best' car, so much has to do with the actual individual piece. Some are superb, others have faults from the start. My family fared best with Pfaff, others with Singer, friends with Husquarna, and so on. Just stick to your gut feeling and the price and whatever takes your fancy amongst the best known products. I suppose that any of the big names is a good choice. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 12:30:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18334 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:30:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06HV8i1020195; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06HV39Y029907; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06HUK9Y029393 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:30:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003010617301400200221eie>; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:30:15 +0000 Message-ID: <3E19BD2C.7040709@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine References: <20030106142827.26078.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 09:30:20 -0800 Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > --- sylvia wrote: > I bought the Pfaff 2020 a couple years >ago and have been very happy with it. > > >>My decision to go with Pfaff was based on their inclusion of the dual feed >>foot, which none of the other brands had at the time. I don't know if any >>of them have subsequently included it. >> >> > >No, Pfaff is still the only one, even though they were bought by Husquarna (or >was that Viking?) > > What is a dual feed foot? Is it the same as a walking foot? If so, then the higher-end Berninas include it. liz lizyoung@fenris.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 12:56:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18627 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:56:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06HwEi1022852; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:58:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06HwD9Y016377; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:58:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06HvX9Y015984 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:57:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip248.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.248]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h06HvUC29720 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:57:31 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Clothing Oddities Message-ID: <3E194636.30008.1E896B38@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 09:02:46 -0800 Status: RO > Snip from message: > "Ooo, you mean like 3 piece suits (jacket, vest and pants, with > shirt and undershirt) worn by men in unairconditioned business offices > in the 1950s and before?" > > Actually, if those are wool suits and cotton shirts/unders, it's a > good "air conditioning" system all its own... I wear similar layers in > wool, in the summer, for mid-19thc stuff, and your body adapts. You > sweat, yes, but the cotton absorbs that, and then the wool wicks it > away, and you stay fairly comfortable. Even today, > summer-weight/tropical weight wool suiting is lighter than many > cottons! Anti-perspirant interferes greatly though, by inhibiting the > ability to sweat, and therefore, stalemating the evaporative cooling. > But otherwise, its a functional, intuitive system... when viewed from > historic eyes. But to someone used to polyester suits and shirts, they would "intuitively" think (from a modern viewpoint) that what you are saying (which those of us who've done the research or lived through it know is correct) is not possible. Also, if someone has not lived for prolonged periods without airconditioning (other than swamp coolers which only work when it is not humid) they will, by their "modern intuitive" thinking, also think it's not possible that men would have worn those suits all day long. They'd probably think that they took off the jacket and vest at the very least. (Well, we know the clerks in the backroom did, but not the bankers and business men.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 12:56:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18629 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:56:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Hw4i1022835; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:58:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Hw29Y016270; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06HvV9Y015955 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:57:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip248.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.248]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h06HvQC29687 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:57:27 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] historical spinning, was: Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E194634.1174.1E8966E8@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> In-reply-to: <200301061828.53468.geard@verso.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 09:02:44 -0800 Status: RO > Hald seems to use the direction of spin as one factor to help date > early textiles, but that's because they tend to be consistent within a > time and place, not becuse they were always one way before a given and > always another way afterwards. That's why the discussion started out talking about the transitional period when there were *many* combinations of spin. > Sounds fascinating, and you've got me wondering about whether there's > a twist in the drive-band of medieval spinning wheels, since clockwise > on the driving wheel will spin S only if there's a twist in the > driveband between the driving wheel and the spindle (i.e. the > driveband's a figure-eight rather than a circle). I pulled out my > "Medieval rural life in the Luttrell Psalter" and, despite some rather > cubist perspective, there's the twist in the driveband. If the > Luttrell drive wheel was spun clockwise it looks like it would turn > the spindle anti-clockwise which would indeed produce S-spun. I'm > still figuring out the position of the spinster, however, since she > seems to be either beating the wheel anti-clockwise or stopping the > wheel at her maximum draw, and I would have expected her to be able to > go straight from spinning to winding on by angling the thread without > stopping the wheel. I was looking at it last night too and it looked like there was a twist in the driveband. I'm not an expert on the wheel but have to go with what my weaving books tell me about it. Unfortunately, there is not a all-comprehensive book about the wheel. Another thing is that men tend to be the ones (with a few exceptions such as Anguissola and Terlinc) painting the pictures and manuscripts. And while they may be good at figuring out what the thing looks like if it is right in front of them and remember somewhat how the person was standing and holding their hands, you can't depend on it for documentation of how the thing was done. I still remember the woman to whom I was apprenticed pointing out the looms in several paintings where they were missing essential pieces for that particular type of loom. In other words, you can't take the pictures as evidence of how they were used. (It's better to go to the textiles themselves.) > > Even with modern wheels, many are set up to be used for spinning in > > only one direction. It's awkward to use it in the opposite direction > > or the mechanism doesn't work quite right (depending on the type.) > > Maybe this is a matter of what you're used to. Keep in mind that I said "many" not "all" or "none." Both my original Little > Peggy upright and my current Ashford Traditional spin equally well in > either direction with a flick or two of the foot (the new double > treadle and polymer driveband make control even easier: have you ever > noticed how spinners can sound a lot like car enthusiasts when talking > about hotting up spinning-wheels?). I rather suspect that the members > of the Spinners and Weavers Guild I learned with would have had little > time for a temperamental wheel: they were primarily interested in > spinning for knitting, knitting wool is almost always plied, and to > spin and ply on the same wheel the wheel must be able to spin both S > and Z. If it doesn't, send it back. Most of the people I know who spin on a wheel are doing it for the purpose of weaving. I only know one knitter who uses a wheel and we haven't discussed spinning. So purpose is probably pretty important when it comes to choosing the type of wheel you want. ;) > > It's interesting because it looks like many areas have conventions > > depending on the type of bast fibre they started spinning with > > spindles. If you spin linen the way you would hemp, it goes "against > > the grain" of the fibre. With wool it can be spun either way, but > > the conventions usually follow the predominant bast type. > > Sounds reasonable, and rings a distant bell. Do you have any sources I > could track down? Agnes Geijer's textile history book is a good one. She's done a lot of primary research into this (spinning analysis, weaving analysis) in terms especially of the Northern textiles. She's one of the sources where I saw this discussion about spin direction (although I'd have to go look it up again to find the others and I don't have time at the moment.) > > > If you want to be really nit-picky, you can take some advice > > > Carolyn Priest-Dorman gave me a decade ago and use the direction > > > of spin to make continuous-twist tablet-weaving more even. The > > > twist of the tablets during weaving is itself a form of plying, so > > > by matching the twist of the threads to the twist of the cards > > > you'll avoid having some cards that produce puffy (balanced twist) > > > weaving while others produce tight (over-twist) weaving. > > > > Yep. But getting commercially spun threads of the opposite spin is a > > pain. ;) (I guess this is a time when you have to spin your own or > > pay someone to spin it for you.) > > That's the one. And it's not even a hugely arduous amount of spinning, > so it might even be worth it. :-) Better you than me, cookie! When I manage to set up a cardweaving project I have these neat little spinner things you can get from fishing supply places that decreases the over/under spin problems you can get with card weaving. I also tend to use patterns where they go back and forth rather than always turning the same direction. It cuts down on needing to worry much about that problem. > > Exactly. And it also depends on how much you want to do the other > > things. For example, I like to handsew, I like pattern making and I > > like to research. I've tried spinning, weaving, etc (and I've done a > > lot of dyeing), but I'd much rather actually make a garment than put > > my effort into making the fabric to make the garment. Also, I figure > > that I'd be using bought, finished fabrics anyway, not producing > > them myself. (Not a subsistence kind of gal.) > > Fair enough. I must say that fabric-weaving is not my favourite thing > and doesn't generally pass the cost-benefit analysis for me. But using > only what is available to us through modern commercial sources skews > our recreation towards what is normal now, eliminating some types of > gear that were reasonably common then. For most of us this is a > compromise we accept for practical reasons, but if people are willing > to broaden our range of recreation by reproducing historical items and > techniques that are not readily available in the modern world, more > power to them. Oh, amen to that! I strongly encourage people who want to go that extra bit. In fact, I get rather annoyed when people start saying backhanded compliments about "anal-retentiveness" and calling those people who like to do things of that sort by perjorative names/titles because of their interest. I think that there are many "crab pot mentality" people who don't like to see others doing something that makes them feel like they could do better. (I just wish they'd deal with their senses of inadequacy/lack of perfection in a little more adult fashion, please.) Personally I see the people doing extra as an incentive to learn more, even if I can't *do* the things they are doing. And I want to do all I can to help them (which is how I ended up doing the research I've done recently on spin and weave types, as well as analyzing fabrics.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 13:15:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18937 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:15:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IH4i1024876; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:17:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IH19Y027773; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IGo9Y027649 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.129.96] by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030106181551.DOCK3094.out003.verizon.net@[192.168.129.96]> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:15:51 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out003.verizon.net from [192.168.129.96] at Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:15:51 -0600 Message-Id: <20030106181551.DOCK3094.out003.verizon.net@[192.168.129.96]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:15:51 -0500 Status: RO > Shorts are only for casual wear. I think breeches for men should come back > in style! That would be loads of fun!!! > > Lisa > Hey...I wear breeches to worl almost daily! Cheers, R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 13:17:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18949 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:17:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IJ2i1025079; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IJ19Y028935; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IIn9Y028822 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:18:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.143]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8B00BK218QWA@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 10:12:27 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! In-reply-to: <3E17E509.128.19259E6E@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030106091810.00d6ba60@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <000e01c2b4bf$03933f10$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <000701c2b456$161c3650$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 09:19:41 -0800 Status: RO >You can thank our Victorian ancestors that there are not very many >portrait or other information about that. If you look at some of the >portraits from the late Elizabethan and Jacobean time you can see >these fantasticly low necklines. Most people who know about female >breast position/anatomy wonder how they could possibly get them into >that low a neckline without exposing the nipples. The answer is that >they didn't. However, if you examine the paintings with methods which >show the underlying paint layers (such as IR and xray) you find that >those nipples are "present and accounted for". Woodcuts faired even >more poorly. Except for the ones like you mention above (I've also >seen one of a very proper lady serving her family and the visiting >minister at dinner), most of the engraving/woodcuts have very odd >scratchings over that area, courtesy of their prudish descendants. Phoey. I was figuring, at my age and lack of natural elasticity, to re-create a Jacobean some day, while retaining a pg-13 rating. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 13:17:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18950 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:17:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IJAi1025105; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IJ89Y029019; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IIn9a028822 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.143]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8B00BK218QWA@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 10:12:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity In-reply-to: <3E18863B.25814.1B9B6253@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030106092629.00d7fa20@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 09:38:54 -0800 Status: RO > > We should collect examples of all the idiotically unsuitable things > > we've worn over the years! It will give costume historians of the > > future a good laugh. > >Ooo, you mean like 3 piece suits (jacket, vest and pants, with shirt >and undershirt) worn by men in unairconditioned business offices in >the 1950s and before? You omitted the useful necktie. My mother was a grade school teacher, and taught third grade mostly. In California in the later 60s, when I was still not allowed to wear trousers to school, female teachers weren't either. That meant she had to do all the reaching up, bending over, and crawling around that lower-grades school teachers had to do, while wearing just-above-the-knee-length skirts and separate stockings. She had already stopped wearing skirts at home in favor of wearing trousers, and was so glad when their dress code changed too. The no-trousers rule at my high school changed the year after I graduated. But, oddly enough, 'granny dresses', ankle length fakey-Victorian things, wren't allowed where inelegantly short ones, to be worn with pre-panty-hose separate stockings, were allowed. (Yes, panty hose were available to us in the mid-60s, but they cost as much as a pair of shoes did, and I couldn't afford them.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 13:18:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18956 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:17:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IJHi1025128; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:19:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IJG9Y029097; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:19:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06IIn9c028822 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.143]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8B00BK218QWA@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 10:12:31 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-reply-to: <3E18863B.22646.1B9B641A@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030106095106.00d605d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20030105090020.00d5e600@mail.frys.com> <200301041858.25364.cathy@thyrsus.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 09:59:04 -0800 Status: RO >So, in spite of the people uninterested in the stated reason for the >SCA, there are people like myself, Drea and others who do the >research in this way. By definition it is a "living history" group. But they don't think of themselves as a living history group, nor do they 'play' like a living history group. >The parts I find most difficult to reconcile is the tolerance for the >post 1600 Western Europe and all the Oriental and Central American >personas which are tolerated. You forgot the African personae and the Eastern European and Middle-Eastern ones. But there are so many of them now that it's too late to exclude them (and too rude to throw them out). >However, it is set up as an inclusive >group (with the hope that people will "grow" into the Western Culture >part) rather than an exclusive group where you just about have to be >perfect before you can play at all. You forgot about the newcomer's organizations within the SCA, dedicated to helping clothe the newcomers and get them integrated into the SCA as easily as possible. But most other living history groups have these too, if unofficially. >For many of us, the SCA has given us a venue where we can do the >costume and costume research, and have a place to wear it and >teach/learn about it, That's why I like it, and for the chance to dabble in some of the period arts and crafts I can't do in a regular living history setting. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 13:47:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19068 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:47:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06In3i1028039; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06In19Y016146; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06ImB9Y015564 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWlDe4MQagv7mztTJsEEs4WFNR8ccxe7J5w=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMU36EGV; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 13:47:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Message-ID: <20030106.134726.-494359.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-12 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:32:39 -0500 Status: RO I remember my first teaching job in 1957. We had a really cold winter and no heat (Florida schools were not being built with heater in those days). On nasty cold morning I put on my black turtleneck sweater and black and turquoise flannel circle skirt and decided my legs were freezing. So instead of my nylons and high heels, I put on a pair of thigh high black socks with turquoise flecks in them and a pair of black loafers. The principal asked that I not do that again and from then on I wore the nylons (with seams, of course) and high heels for the rest of my teaching career (which was just three years). And for that I made the magnificent sum of 3200.00 a year. That is correct - two zeros before the decimal, not a typo. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:01:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19160 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:01:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06J35i1029402; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06J349Y023697; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:03:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06J2e9Y023444 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:01:14 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A27A13C5008E; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:01:14 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:01:13 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Message-ID: <005a01c2b5b6$5a92f150$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3E19BD2C.7040709@fenris.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 186-130.farcpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Subject: [h-cost] dual feed foot Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:03:50 -0600 Status: RO Liz wrote: What is a dual feed foot? Is it the same as a walking foot? If so, then the higher-end Berninas include it. *********************************** On a normal sewing machine, the fabric is pulled through under the presser foot by the feed dogs. They grasp the bottom layer of fabric only, and any other layers are pulled along with the bottom layer. Pfaff has a little foot behind the presser foot that pulls the top layer through as the feed dogs push the bottom layer. Although it is a built-in feature, you can disable this, if you wish. Bernina doesn't use this method. They just made a better, more efficient feed dog system instead. I do have a walking foot for my Bernina, but I never use it. It's noisy and annoying, and doesn't improve the stitch that I can see. Would anyone like to buy it? Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:05:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19185 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:05:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06J72i1029891; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06J729Y025931; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06J6j9Y025736 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:06:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWlDe4MQagv7mDqxa27dxe2U1GMDbc8OQqQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMU48EAS; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:05:58 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Clothing Oddities Message-ID: <20030106.140556.-494359.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,19-21 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:05:56 -0500 Status: RO <<< Also, if someone has not lived for prolonged periods without airconditioning (other than swamp coolers which only work when it is not humid) they will, by their "modern intuitive" thinking, also think it's not possible that men would have worn those suits all day long. They'd probably think that they took off the jacket and vest at the very least. (Well, we know the clerks in the backroom did, but not the bankers and business men.)>>> I have lived in Florida from the central to as far south as you can go (Key West) without air conditioning. Went through sixteen years of school and three years of teaching (on Islamarada in the Keys) without air conditioning. About ten years ago I got my first window A/C unit and added on each year until I was spending the summer in comfort. Last year my plastic debts caught up with me and I am on a debt management budget that does not allow for two hundred dollar electric bills so I have gone this year without air conditioning. The first part of the summer I thought I would die. By the end of summer, I was uncomfortable, but moving right along in my cotton T-shirt and jeans. Our bodies adapt if we give them time. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:09:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19228 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:09:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JB2i1000343; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JB19Y028087; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06JAt9Y027982 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWlDe4MQagv7m0PUIMF4OsFBbHxh+OmQ+Sg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMU5FY69; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:10:07 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity Message-ID: <20030106.141002.-494359.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-4,6-9 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:10:02 -0500 Status: RO <<<. (Yes, panty hose were available to us in the mid-60s, but they cost as much as a pair of shoes did, and I couldn't afford them.)>>> And the early ones bagged around the ankles every time you sat down. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:14:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19264 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:14:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JG2i1000829; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JG19Y001059; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JFC9Y000607 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:15:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.253]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030106191509.UTVX15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:15:09 +0000 Subject: Karen/Re: Effigy/Re: [h-cost] wheel farthingale Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030105.172135.-80707.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:10:43 +0000 Status: RO Oh thats just fab Karen.I have to go down to london late this week or in a week's time to do some paperwork and shall treat myself to a visit to Wesminster Abbey so will be able to see the effigy if its still on show.My sincere thanks. Marcus. On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 11:21 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > The effigy of Queen E is in Westminster Abbey. It isn't in the Abbey > proper but in a small building out in the Cloister area. As far as I > know, it's still on display, or it was about 3 years ago when I was > there. They sell a very nice book to go along with the exhibit (which > has > pretty much all the remaining funeral effigies that the Abbey has, they > were nicknamed 'The Ragged Regiment' back in the Victorian era when many > of them were worse for wear.) It has many pictures of the various > effigies (Nicole, you need to see this as many of the effigies are from > people prominent at the end of the 17th and into the early 18th century > and many of the items of clothing were taken from their living > wardrobes) > as well as shots taken during the last refurbishment so you can see the > underpinnings. Of course, I bought the book- it was quite reasonable > as I > recall, about $10BPS. If folks are interested I could dig it out and > scan > some of the images that folks would most like to see. > > Karen > > > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:49:50 +0000 marcus findlay-arthur > writes: >> >> On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 10:45 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews >> wrote: >> >>> My theory about this is that there was a farthingale on the wax >> effigy >>> who >>> had this shape, but when they remodelled it, they used a modern >> cut - a >>> panier. >> >> Yep thats what I thought when I finally realised that I was looking >> at >> panniers and not a 'wheel farthingale'.Very vexing I must say. >> >>> Has any on the list ever seen this wax effigy? >> >> I can't remember where it was on site - Westminster,Bjarne or is my >> >> memory playing tricks?Wherever it is its no longer on display I >> don't >> think.The effigy featured in the series of pics that showed the cane >> >> panniers/farthingale was Queen Anne I believe. >> >>> I havent even seen a photo of it, only the panier. >> >> Me too.Still its intriguing. >> >> Marcus. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:26:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19319 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:26:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JS2i1001798; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JS19Y007700; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JRg9Y007529 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:27:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-4-37.cw2.jps.net ([216.119.4.37] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VcuS-0005X6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 11:27:40 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c2b5ba$b3d32920$250477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030106181551.DOCK3094.out003.verizon.net@[192.168.129.96]> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:34:57 -0800 Status: RO Really? Are you a baseball player? :) Lisa Sinervo Threadneedle St. Clothiers www.ThreadneedleSt.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 10:15 AM Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable > > > Shorts are only for casual wear. I think breeches for men should come back > > in style! That would be loads of fun!!! > > > > Lisa > > > Hey...I wear breeches to worl almost daily! > > Cheers, > > > R.Carnegie@verizon.net > "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." > R. Bach > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:32:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19339 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:32:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JY1i1002270; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JY09Y010951; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:34:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06JXq9Y010886 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.253]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030106193350.VBNH15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:33:50 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <8B5E0D54-21B5-11D7-837E-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:29:24 +0000 Status: RO On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 01:23 am, Marsha Hamilton wrote: > on 1/4/03 3:21 AM, Ella Lynoure Rajamaki at lynoure@tuug.fi wrote: > >> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >> >>> Shoot, when I was in school, we were not *allowed* to wear trousers >>> of any sort to school, no matter what the weather. (And it was *very* >>> cold...So, while a >>> modern person would say that it couldn't be that girls in the 1950s >>> and 60s wouldn't wear trousers in cold weather, I can assure you that >>> we didn't. (If we tried, we got expelled from school.) > ----------- >> Skirts can be plenty warm and nice in very cold weather. It has been >> between -20 and -28 Celsius here this week, and I have still worn >> skirts.... > ------------ > This thread is interesting because it has come up before. I think > people in > looking back historically exhibit the prejudice that people do things > for > rational reasons. Whether its pockets or warmth. I don't think that's > true. > > For example, on the skirt/trouser issue in the 1950s... > I can't count the number of times I stood out in sub-zero weather in > deep > snow freezing to death waiting for the school bus to come. Dressed in > my > 1950's knee length skirts, car-coat length winter coat, sock or nylons, > and > ankle height slip on boots. My frozen legs were totally exposed, the > snow > always fell over my boot tops and got my feet miserably wet. But that > is > what I wore every winter. > > Not because it was smart or warm but because that was the only style of > clothing available and acceptable--both by peers and the school system. When I was in primary school in the 60's thru' to the age of 13 our school uniform for winter was grey flannel shorts,wool knee high socks and cotton shirts with a blazer & school tie.If you were wimpy you could wear a school jumper over the cotton shirt.We didn't get to wear 'longs' - long grey pants until High School.So while we were warm in winter we died of the heat in an African summer as the perspiration soaked us from waist to wool clad feet.I can remember my feet sliding in my shoes as I stripped in the afternoons going home on the train in an effort to cool down in 105 Degree heat. Gross!!! Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:35:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19355 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:35:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Jb1i1002566; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Jb19Y012617; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Jal9Y012518 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:36:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.253]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030106193644.VCMI15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:36:44 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <001f01c2b532$bb8bf8a0$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:32:18 +0000 Status: RO No,you're right - I went off on a tangent with Robin's post about fathingales.It was originally about the Victorian crinoline photo. Marcus. On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 03:21 am, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > In this discussion of wheelfarthingale, is there some confusion between > wire > crinolines and farthingales? The photo being discussed is certainly > from > the 19th Century, and has all the aspects of a crinoline (hoop) and not > the > skirt distenders known from earlier periods. Also, the fact that it > is a > photograph should have some explanation. re the date. Admitted, it is > an > exaggeration and like the cartoons of the era, was probably intended > as a > joke...which has already been mentioned. If the diameter is about 6', > the > yardage around the bottom would be somewhat over 5+ yards. Since > skirts of > this period are often quoted at more than 5-6 yards, especially ball > gowns, > the exaggeration isn't really that far out...from my vantage point. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "marcus findlay-arthur" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] WHEELFARTHINGALE!!! > > >> >> On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 08:47 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: >> >>> >>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >>> >>>> The way i read this is that she has a farthingale wich is 4 feet in >>>> the hips. Then i am unsertan if they used the word farthingales for >>>> the bum rolls. My point is that it is a wheel shaped farthingale 3 >>>> feet in the hips. >>> >>> Yes, definitely, I read it also as referring to the skirt shape that >>> people today call the "wheel farthingale," meaning the type that makes >>> the >>> skirt look as though it's sticking out from the waist in a circular >>> shape. >>> The time period is right for that, too. But I don't get anything from >>> the >>> quote that tells us the nature of the structure that's holding up the >>> skirts. >> >> Probably the most accurate and authentic 'reading' as to scale. >>> >>> "Wheel farthingale" was not a period term; it was invented by >>> later historians as a description of the visual shape seen in the >>> portraits from around the early 1600s. Later writers have also called >>> it a >>> "cartwheel farthingale," "Catherine-wheel farthingale," and "drum >>> farthingale," all apparently based on the appearance of the shape in >>> portraits. >> >> Correct. >> >>> I haven't yet found a recorded use of any of these terms that >>> dates to the time in which this shape was worn. (If someone has such a >>> reference, let me know!) >> >> I've been looking for 30 years and have not found documentable >> reference >> anywhere. >>> >>> So we know that whatever-it-was they were wearing, the people who were >>> wearing it called it the French farthingale. The question, then, is >>> what >>> the "French farthingale" itself was made of. Modern scholars have >>> assumed >>> it was a boned structure (as pictured in Hunnisett and others), >>> perhaps a >>> circle of sturdy cloth held in shape with concentric circles of >>> whalebone >>> (or metal or another material), with or without a hooped skirt hanging >>> down. When I tried to track this idea back to the sources from the >>> period, >>> though, I found that the trail dead-ended in the late 1700s, with the >>> suppositions of the costume historians at the time, who were steeped >>> in >>> the personal knowledge of 1700s styles (panniers and other wire >>> frameworks). References from the early 1600s are more consistent with >>> the >>> idea that it was a structured bolster. There is no period reference, >>> of >>> those I've seen, that definitively requires interpretation as a >>> wheel-frame, but there are many references that do require >>> interpretation >>> as a stuffed roll (including some dictionary definitions). >> >> The nearest I've ever come to for an extent example is the one that was >> used on the wax effigy of Elizabeth.However its made with cane in a >> cotton form and was constructed when the statue was cleaned up and >> redressed in the 18thC.It even looks like panniers to me. >> >> Marcus. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:50:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19405 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:50:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Jl2i1003393; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Jl19Y018385; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Jk49Y017817 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.253]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030106194601.VFTO15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:46:01 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3E188639.23590.1B9B5D55@localhost> Message-Id: <36393DB2-21B7-11D7-837E-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Subject: [h-cost] Re: Busts & Prudes/Woodcuts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:41:20 +0000 Status: RO On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 03:23 am, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > I don't know about the virginity part. Hhhhmm the calculating part of me would agree with you.I don't understand the thinking about it myself and found myself getting all shy about it.Still I was only 15 aat the time. > The intact woodcut I've seen > was of a woman serving dinner to her husband and the minister. The one I saw was of a woman on horseback circa 16teens at the latest and she had a traveling companion either a groom or escort of some sort.All I could think of was 'hey,isn't that hell bouncing around on a horse for hours untold,not to mention the chill factor?' (And Robin this woodcut was featured in that book with the Gates of Hell paragraph.) > Married women generally are no longer considered maidens or virgins. Thats what I thought. > > However, you are right about our ancestors being a hearty bunch! Certainly - you've got to love them when it comes down to it.Because without them we wouldn't have got here. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:53:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19418 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:53:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Jt6i1004080; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:55:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Jt39Y022880; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Jsn9Y022758 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:54:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.253]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030106195447.VJTI15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:54:47 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <78B2C284-21B8-11D7-837E-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:50:21 +0000 Status: RO On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 05:50 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > I would kill for equivalent practical tidbits from 500 years ago. I can > imagine medieval women sharing tips on the most convenient ways to > arrange > underlayers. (Or am I just assuming they would, because we do? That > "modern intuition" issue again...) Robin,didn't the Roman woman use sponges?And I know strips of cloth especially kept aside for the purpose were used during the Victorian era,possibly even before?But it would be fascinating.(I'm getting way too out of my depth here - its been a rough day and two Jack Daniel's coffee's later hasn't helped aside from dull the nerve endings!) 16thC Indian woman wore a strip of cloth wrapped very much as males wore daily as knickers,on their moon days and went into seclusion.Going without once the menses were done. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 14:59:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19453 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:59:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06K12i1004584; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06K119Y026307; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06K0T9Y025956 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:00:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.253]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030106200027.VNIK15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:00:27 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dyeing with tumeric Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <012501c2b593$d492b6c0$8a320a0a@methodist.edu> Message-Id: <435E4A2E-21B9-11D7-837E-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:56:01 +0000 Status: RO On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 02:56 pm, Rebecca Wendelken wrote: > This question was on around Christmas, but I'm just getting caught up. > Instead of getting the tumeric from the local chain grocery, see if you > can > find an Indian or Pakistani grocery. You can get several times the > amout of > tumeric for the same price you would pay for the little bottle -- and > it's > fresher. It takes a lot of tumeric to get a good color. You can also > check > International Farmers' Markets (Atlanta has a big one) for raw tumeric. > Haven't tried that, but could be very interesting. I've used the > powdered > form for both cotton and wool with good results. I use an alum mordant > and > then place the fabric in a concentrated dye bath for an extended period > of > time. You do get a lot of sludge from tumeric, but you also get a > wonderful > scent! I suppose if the sludge bothers you, you could make the "dye" by > cooking the tumeric power in water until it gives up its coloring and > then > filter out the sludge before you do the dyeing. I do that when I dye > with > henna. > Fu'il Oh thats bril.Thanks for the info - it'll be a big help when I'm experimenting at the end of the month.Sincere thanks, Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 15:09:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19496 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:08:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KA4i1005384; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KA39Y001600; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21406.mail.yahoo.com (web21406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06K9r9Y001494 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:09:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.152] by web21406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:09:52 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001301c2b595$aca8e6a0$4f0577d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:09:52 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > This is interesting. I attented BYU from 1982-83 > just when women were > allowed to wear jeans to class but most of the > editorials and cartoons were > still around for me to read about the event and I > discussed it with a number > of people who were there. But I remembered the > story in terms of my own > concerns, that is, whether or not I would be able to > wear jeans. Wow! > > Lisa Lisa, They still weren't accepting Jeans or sweatpants when I was at BYU 86-89, although the nicer Jeans did eventually become allowed. Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 15:12:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19513 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:12:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KE2i1005705; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KE09Y003847; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.bos.untd.com (m28.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06KDh9Y003667 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:13:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWlDe4MQagv7mSkRKNejTF4uDqMtEHcg1pg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMU83UC6; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:13:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Busts & Prudes/Woodcuts Message-ID: <20030106.151232.-218619.5.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,5-7 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:12:32 -0500 Status: RO <<>> In spite of a lot of prudish talk, the Victorians managed to produce another generation themselves. Amazing how much goes on behind closed doors. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 15:22:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19583 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:22:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KN3i1006831; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KN19Y008716; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (IDENT:root@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KMP9Y008371 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:22:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.124.3.176] (p16.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.176]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24430 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:17:21 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3E19BD2C.7040709@fenris.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:55:37 -0700 Status: RO on 1/6/03 10:30 AM, Elizabeth Young at lizyoung@fenris.net wrote: >> >> > What is a dual feed foot? Is it the same as a walking foot? If so, then > the higher-end Berninas include it. No, it's not the same. I tried bernina's walking foot and it didn't perform as well for me on pvc. Sylvia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 15:23:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19603 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:23:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KP3i1007279; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KP19Y009828; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m15.bos.untd.com (m15.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h06KOi9Y009619 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"zDT9J7+GjNHhZUZmXWsl4EYLskECbZQDkpfjVX0NWOq8Gt8AACreGg=="> Received: (from luann.mason@juno.com) by m15.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMU9P4YC; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:24:27 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Message-ID: <20030106.122415.-374327.1.luann.mason@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-27 From: luann.mason@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:24:13 -0800 Status: RO On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:09:52 -0800 (PST) "Angharad ver' Reynulf" writes: > > > > This is interesting. I attented BYU from 1982-83 > > just when women were > > allowed to wear jeans to class but most of the > > editorials and cartoons were > > still around for me to read about the event and I > > discussed it with a number > > of people who were there. But I remembered the > > story in terms of my own > > concerns, that is, whether or not I would be able to > > wear jeans. Wow! > > > > Lisa > > > Lisa, > > They still weren't accepting Jeans or sweatpants when > I was at BYU 86-89, although the nicer Jeans did > eventually become allowed. > > Angharat Yeah, but the GUYS could wear them. Figure that one out! LOL! LuAnn who is definitely feeling old.... :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 15:35:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19702 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:35:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KbAi1008659; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:37:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Kb19Y017080; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (mta1-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KaR9Y016710 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.24.253]) by mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030106203625.ZHOP277.mta1-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:36:25 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Busts & Prudes/Woodcuts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030106.151232.-218619.5.catpurson@juno.com> Message-Id: <499B726F-21BE-11D7-837E-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:31:59 +0000 Status: RO On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 08:12 pm, Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > In spite of a lot of prudish talk, the Victorians managed to > produce another generation themselves. Amazing how much goes on behind > closed doors. Growing up in an Edwardian household those victorians have a lot to answer for. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 15:38:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19711 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:38:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Ke1i1008929; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Ke19Y018782; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Kd39Y018179 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-29-199.o1.jps.net ([216.119.29.199] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Ve1W-00069B-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:39:03 -0800 Message-ID: <002201c2b5c4$ad5d8540$250477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:46:23 -0800 Status: RO Well that puzzles me, as the ability to wear jeans was a criteria for me to even consider the school and jeans I definitely wore! Nice ones though. They also had a rule there that men had to wear sox with their shoes and topsiders or deck shoes, I can't remember the term, were in style and needed to be worn without sox in order not to look daggy. This dorm mate of mine was at BYU because that was the only school her parents were willing to pay for and in retaliation or to vent her frustration, she occupied her time reporting soxless men to university standards. First time offenders received official letters in the mail, not sure what happend to repeat offenders. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable > > > > This is interesting. I attented BYU from 1982-83 > > just when women were > > allowed to wear jeans to class but most of the > > editorials and cartoons were > > still around for me to read about the event and I > > discussed it with a number > > of people who were there. But I remembered the > > story in terms of my own > > concerns, that is, whether or not I would be able to > > wear jeans. Wow! > > > > Lisa > > > Lisa, > > They still weren't accepting Jeans or sweatpants when > I was at BYU 86-89, although the nicer Jeans did > eventually become allowed. > > Angharat > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 15:44:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19740 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:44:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Kk4i1009549; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Kk19Y022469; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KjQ9Y022105 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:45:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-29-199.o1.jps.net ([216.119.29.199] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Ve7h-0000Kn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:45:26 -0800 Message-ID: <003b01c2b5c5$92888340$250477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030106.122415.-374327.1.luann.mason@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:52:47 -0800 Status: RO I think the rules changed to allow denim pants for women, which meant jeans to me, nice ones, the term "jeans" may not have been used. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:09:52 -0800 (PST) "Angharad ver' Reynulf" > writes: > > > > > > > This is interesting. I attented BYU from 1982-83 > > > just when women were > > > allowed to wear jeans to class but most of the > > > editorials and cartoons were > > > still around for me to read about the event and I > > > discussed it with a number > > > of people who were there. But I remembered the > > > story in terms of my own > > > concerns, that is, whether or not I would be able to > > > wear jeans. Wow! > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > Lisa, > > > > They still weren't accepting Jeans or sweatpants when > > I was at BYU 86-89, although the nicer Jeans did > > eventually become allowed. > > > > Angharat > > Yeah, but the GUYS could wear them. Figure that one out! LOL! > > LuAnn who is definitely feeling old.... :-P > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 15:48:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19772 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:48:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Kn1i1009857; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Kn09Y024073; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06KmF9Y023735 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:48:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08981 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:59:16 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Busts & Prudes/Woodcuts In-Reply-To: <36393DB2-21B7-11D7-837E-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:59:16 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, marcus findlay-arthur wrote: > > The intact woodcut I've seen > > was of a woman serving dinner to her husband and the minister. > > The one I saw was of a woman on horseback circa 16teens at the latest > and she had a traveling companion either a groom or escort of some > sort.All I could think of was 'hey,isn't that hell bouncing around on a > horse for hours untold,not to mention the chill factor?' > (And Robin this woodcut was featured in that book with the Gates of Hell > paragraph.) One more good reason to find it someday :-) I have a copy of a promo brochure from the National Gallery in Washington from 2/91, when they had an exhibit up called (I think) "Eva/Ave" or something like that. The cover image is an engraving showing a woman beating her husband. Her nipples are showing over the very low plastron in her V-necked dress, which has several other unusual elements (a draped sash-like thing over the shoulders, and a wide side opening with lacing!) that suggest some allegorical overtones. The man's cote is lovely, though. The woodcut is cited to Israhel van Meckenem, "The Angry Wife" (detail), from the "Scenes of Daily Life" series, c. 1495/1503. I probably have the entire exhibit catalog somewhere; if there's interest, I'll dig it out and see what it says about exposed bosoms. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 15:48:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19776 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:48:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Ko2i1009997; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Ko19Y024695; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail2.mackie.com [12.144.237.152]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Kn39Y024096 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:49:04 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Citing a source for a translation Thread-Index: AcK1xQsx9BLHuCFfEdetKQCw0LEy7w== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h06Kn39Y024096 Subject: [h-cost] Citing a source for a translation Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:49:02 -0800 Status: RO Hi everyone, I recently did a translation of the relevant section of Levi-Pisetzky's _Storia del Costume in Italia_ and I was wondering if I need to cite the online site that I used to help with the translation for my documentation. I'm using the MLA format and I couldn't find anything specifically relating to this in my handbook. For the information that I used from my translation, I'm referring back to Levi-Pisetzky. Thanks! Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 16:01:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19856 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:01:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06L31i1011278; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06L307r002181; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06L2O7r001840 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:02:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09050 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:13:25 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Historic blog? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:13:25 -0600 (CST) Status: RO I saw this on another list. Those who do 17th c. living history already know Pepys as a great first-person source. This sounds like a fun way to get familiar with the text... ----- >From the folks at WhatIs.com: http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid26_gci872171,00.ht ml The famous diary that Samuel Pepys (pronounced PEEPS), once the head of England's Navy, kept during the years 1660-1669 is being made available online in the form of a weblog. Phil Gyford, who conceived the idea, is converting the diary, which was already in electronic form as part of Project Gutenberg, into weblog format using software called Movable Type. He added Pepys' entry for January 1, 1660 on January 1, 2003, and is adding a new entry each day. In its current form, Pepys' weblog allows a reader to create a public annotation, asking or answering a question or perhaps explaining some now obscure 17th century term that Pepys uses. The weblog site includes an overview and other historical background. Hypertext links are provided where Pepys mentions historical events and specific people. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 16:21:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20054 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:21:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06LN2i1013257; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06LN17r014476; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06LMc7r014259 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:22:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.9.88]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030106212236.QSDJ21179.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:22:36 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic blog? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:18:10 +0000 Status: RO Oh thats niffty!!! Thanks Robin. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 16:58:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20287 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:58:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M08i1016945; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M067r006234; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Lxu7r006131 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:59:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06Lxu917207 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.120] (tnt-1-184.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.120]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06Lxsm17195 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:59:55 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200301051333.18033.geard@verso.org> References: <3E16A72A.9143.144BC2C9@localhost> <200301051333.18033.geard@verso.org> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:15:00 -0800 Status: RO At 1:33 PM +1300 1/5/03, Jennifer Geard wrote: > >Direction of spin is particularly important in shadow weaves, which have >stripes made from bands of S- and Z-twisted threads. Although they're >the same colour, the light reflects on them differently, giving subtle >variation. Margrethe Hald's "Ancient Danish textiles from bogs and >burials" has a fair amount of discussion of twist -- including mixed >twist -- in her chapters on raw-materials-and-spinning, dating weaves >and looms-and-fabrics. The fabrics she examines seem to have all the >combinations of twists, although some are preferred at different times. I'm in the (long) middle of a project of this type -- and for all that I have a bit of a reputation for "from the ground up" projects, the _only_ reason I'm spinning all the thread for my shadow weave project is because it's the only way I can get otherwise-identical S- and Z-twisted thread. And that's another thread (if you'll forgive me) that sometimes goes into the "make it from scratch" philosophy -- not that a historic craftsperson would have created all their materials from scratch, but because sometimes if you want the most authentic materials, it's the only way to get them. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 16:59:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20293 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:59:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M0Li1016978; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M0L7r006359; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06Lxw7r006144 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:59:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06Lxw917273 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.120] (tnt-1-184.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.120]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06Lxvm17231 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:59:57 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030104195035.00a385c0@mail.verizon.net> References: <20030104.142805.-555631.1.catpurson@juno.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030104195035.00a385c0@mail.verizon.net> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:21:00 -0800 Status: RO At 8:01 PM -0500 1/4/03, Ron Carnegie wrote: >At 12:04 PM 1/4/03 -0800, you wrote: > >>> Just as a note, most scholars in linguistics say the Appalachians >>>is the place to pick up Elizabethan English, not England because of the >>>isolation. There are a series of books called the Foxfire books that >>>depict daily life, customs, and crafts of the region. I would expect >>>that they are probably closer to English middle ages than most also. The >>>region is being overrun and no where is really isolated now, but the >>>books were written some thirty to fifty years ago and mostly from >>>interviews with the older inhabitants. I just thought about them when >>>this thread came up and am going to go check mine out as soon as I get >>>off the computer. > > Actually there is a lot of disagreement amongst Linguistic >Scholars on this subject. Some have said the Appalachians, others >have said Tangier Island, yet another group states it is North >Carolina and not Virginia at all. And others point out that _all_ language changes over time. There's no logical reason to expect that speakers in some location, even a culturally isolated one, would speak in a frozen time-warp. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 16:59:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20302 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:59:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M11i1017055; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M117r006719; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M017r006174 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06M00917343 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.120] (tnt-1-184.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.120]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06Lxxm17296 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:59:59 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3E1868BD.5F3968C@in-tch.com> References: <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> <3E17E50A.21793.1925A233@localhost> <3E1868BD.5F3968C@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:29:40 -0800 Status: RO At 10:17 AM -0700 1/5/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >> >> Cathy wrote: >> > I thought that it varied by fiber, with wool more likely to be S-spun, >> > flax (linen) to be Z-spun. >> >> It varies by vegetable fibre (such as linen, ramie, hemp, nettle) >> because plants have their own "direction of spin", but the wool can >> be spun either direction. (With the most common direction varying >> based on factors like the introduction of new technology such as the > > wheel and what the predominant vegetable fibre is for that area.) >What about silk, though? >--sue > A significant amount of woven silk thread in the medieval period (I'm less familiar with later periods) wasn't really "spun" in any meaningful sense of the word. The bundle of continuous fibers that operated together as a thread might be given an extremely slight twist (either as a by-product of the reeling process or perhaps intentionally to make it easier to manage), but structurally speaking, the twist would be negligible. This is one of the differences that makes it difficult to find commercial silk fabrics today that behave similarly to medieval silks (even setting aside the question of brocade patterns!), because spun silks are more the default now. I'd have to check my books to see if there was a consistent pattern in the twist, although I wouldn't be surprised. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 16:59:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20306 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:59:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M1Bi1017099; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:01:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M1B7r006820; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:01:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06M047r006211 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06M04917564 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:00:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.120] (tnt-1-184.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.120]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h06M02m17514 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:00:02 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030105162625.90383.qmail@web41008.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030105162625.90383.qmail@web41008.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] spinning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:51:05 -0800 Status: RO At 8:26 AM -0800 1/5/03, Tania Gruning wrote: >I have been following the authenticity discussion and I have gotten >the inclination to try an learn how to spin. As I have very little >space it will have to be on a spindle and since I break out from >lanolin, I have to do linen. > >My question. Is it best to start with a teacher? Where can you get >hold of linen line? I personally would not advise someone to _learn_ on linen -- it's a much less forgiving fiber than animal fibers tend to be, and the usual spinning method (involving damping the thread as you spin it) adds yet another layer of action to the three or four you're already trying to coordinate simultaneously. If you do start on linen, I'd definitely advise having a teacher rather than trying to figure it out for yourself. There are a lot of practical reasons for learning the basic techniques on wool, and it should be possible to find processed wool that has had the lanolin removed, but a lot would depend on the level of your sensitivity. You might consider starting on cotton rather than linen -- the shorter, fluffier fibers put it in the "more forgiving" category with wool. You mention using a spindle rather than a wheel for space considerations, but even if that weren't an issue, I'd tend to advise starting on a spindle before trying a wheel. The spindle gives you a lot more control over precisely what you're doing and lets you start out be separating the various actions more (e.g., you can put twist into the existing thread and then draw out new thread as separate actions until you're comfortable doing both at the same time). Spindles give you a much more hands-on sense of the physics of spinning and help you understand to process and its variants better. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 17:18:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20467 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:18:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06MK2i1018755; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06MK07r017728; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe20.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06MJe7r017488 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:19:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:19:34 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <20030106.122415.-374327.1.luann.mason@juno.com> <003b01c2b5c5$92888340$250477d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2003 22:19:34.0956 (UTC) FILETIME=[B170FEC0:01C2B5D1] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:22:36 -0500 Status: RO When I was in grade school (1986-1993, or somewhere around that), we had a uniform, but on special days we could wear "real" clothing, including jeans, just NOT BLUE jeans :-) > I think the rules changed to allow denim pants for women, which meant jeans > to me, nice ones, the term "jeans" may not have been used. > > Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 18:05:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20685 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:05:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06N72i1023854; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06N70M3015688; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06N6ZM3015367 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 16:06:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-012-172.jps.net ([216.119.12.172] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VgKI-0001LB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:06:35 -0800 Message-ID: <00a901c2b5d9$44a219c0$250477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030106.122415.-374327.1.luann.mason@juno.com> <003b01c2b5c5$92888340$250477d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:13:43 -0800 Status: RO Now that I think about it, the arguement at the time was that denim was now a general fashion fabric and just because you wore it didn't mean you wanted to overthrow the establishment. That was accepted by the school. I think I used to wear Liz Claiborne jeans to class or something similar, never got in trouble. Designer jeans were the rage then. I also remember the guys could were jeans rule, but with denim pants I felt on an equal footing. Plus, I didn't have to wear sox!!! So I felt like I had the upper hand!! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable > When I was in grade school (1986-1993, or somewhere around that), we had a > uniform, but on special days we could wear "real" clothing, including jeans, > just NOT BLUE jeans :-) > > > I think the rules changed to allow denim pants for women, which meant > jeans > > to me, nice ones, the term "jeans" may not have been used. > > > > Lisa > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 19:57:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21207 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:57:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h070x5i1007549; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h070x1M3012989; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20207.mail.yahoo.com (web20207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h070wYM3012812 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:58:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107005833.96817.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:58:33 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Italian coif question (was Authenticity-questions to ponder) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:58:33 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Talia wrote: > I don't know...that doesn't look like a coif to me, > but rather more of a > reta...? I don't know too much about the reta, however, using the reta on Lynn McMaster's page as a guide, this coif differs from the reta in that 1. the reta is worn further back on the head and is held in place by means of a ribbon/cord circlet around the forehead/back of head, 2. the reta does not smoothly hug the back of the head and tie under the chin, and finally 3. the reta is made by cris-crossing cords/ribbons to make a net - there is none such visible on the lady in the above painting. Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 20:13:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21263 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:13:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071F3i1008406; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071F1M3018980; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071E1M3018598 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.128]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h071Dro5022637; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:13:55 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030106171747.00e2a340@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable In-Reply-To: <00a901c2b5d9$44a219c0$250477d8@pavilion> References: <20030106.122415.-374327.1.luann.mason@juno.com> <003b01c2b5c5$92888340$250477d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 17:17:47 -0800 Status: RO At 03:13 PM 01/06/2003 -0800, Lisa Sinervo wrote: >Now that I think about it, the arguement at the time was that denim was now >a general fashion fabric and just because you wore it didn't mean you wanted >to overthrow the establishment. LOL! in the late 70's I worked at a department store where the rule was, you couldn't wear just jeans, but a coordinated denim pants outfit was okay. I had a pair of denim pants/jeans that had an asinine little bib thingy that buttoned on, for an overalls sort of effect. With the bib, the pants were okay with my supervisor, without it, I was wearing JEANS and that couldn't be condoned. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 20:48:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21393 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:48:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071o2i1010462; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071o1M3000855; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071nuM3000823 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:49:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VisN-0001dx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 17:49:55 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Historic blog? Message-ID: <001201c2b5ef$15fa6da0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:49:57 -0700 Status: RO What a great idea-thanks for sharing. I never knew how to pronounce his name before this! Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Robin Netherton >Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 2:13 PM >To: Historic Costume List >Subject: [h-cost] Historic blog? > > >I saw this on another list. Those who do 17th c. living history already >know Pepys as a great first-person source. This sounds like a fun way to >get familiar with the text... > >----- > >>From the folks at WhatIs.com: > >http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid26_gci872171, 00.ht >ml > >The famous diary that Samuel Pepys (pronounced PEEPS), once the head >of England's Navy, kept during the years 1660-1669 is being made >available online in the form of a weblog. Phil Gyford, who conceived >the idea, is converting the diary, which was already in electronic >form as part of Project Gutenberg, into weblog format using software >called Movable Type. He added Pepys' entry for January 1, 1660 on >January 1, 2003, and is adding a new entry each day. In its current >form, Pepys' weblog allows a reader to create a public annotation, >asking or answering a question or perhaps explaining some now obscure >17th century term that Pepys uses. The weblog site includes an >overview and other historical background. Hypertext links are >provided where Pepys mentions historical events and specific people. > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 20:52:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21412 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:52:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071s5i1010738; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071s5M3002189; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071rFM3001948 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:53:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from host-66-81-247-138.rev.o1.com ([66.81.247.138] helo=[66.81.244.171]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VivZ-00057Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:53:14 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200301051347.33224.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> <4.3.1.2.20030105090020.00d5e600@mail.frys.com> <200301051347.33224.cathy@thyrsus.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:50:10 -0800 Status: RO At 1:47 PM -0500 1/5/03, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >I have never heard anyone *in* the SCA express the believe that SCA is a >living history group (in fact, I have no idea exactly how the SCA classifies >itself). However, non-members get that impression and say things to that >effect. I think it's largely a terminology problem -- there was a recent discussion of this on a historical re-enactment list I belong to. It arises, I think, because some people use several terms more or less interchangeably, including "re-creation", "recreation" (yes, those two are different), "re-enactment", "living history", and so forth. Others define each term separately and mean something distinctly different by each one. In the general sense, the SCA and Renaissance faires are the biggest and most typical "historical hobby" (for lack of a better term) organizations in the U.S. Both embrace a very broad range of people, and have usually been described in my experience as "recreation" -- which seems to be the broadest term, meaning whatever bits of history people want to do for fun-and-educational-value. Both include in their ranks people doing serious historical research, people who are there to party, people in love with the romance of history, people who are there because their friends are, people who want to be creative, and every degree, variation and combination of the above. People who don't differentiate among the terms I've mentioned above, or who define them differently, may describe their participation in Faire or the SCA by any term they please. I've heard "living history," for example, used to describe Faire, because the term is often defined as a demonstration of historical dress, crafts, skills, lifestyle etc. for a non-participating public, as is done to different degrees at historic sites. I've also noticed an increasing trend in recent years for those people who are trying to do academic-style historical research in these organizations to try to find some other term to refer to themselves. "Re-enactment" is the one I hear most often, probably because in the U.S. it's the term used by many American Civil War and Revolutionary War organizations, who aim for as much authenticity as they see possible, and also by many of the European historical groups, which tend to be smaller, less diverse and to have similar authenticity standards. Also, for anyone who also moves in academic historical circles -- as a small, but increasing number of us do -- "re-enactment" seems to be a term that academics recognize and are willing to respect. Due to their diversity and, um, widely varying degrees of seriousness , admitting to an SCA or Faire background doesn't exactly give you a good academic reputation. (I think it's kind of an open secret by now that the DISTAFF sessions on textiles at the International Congress for Medieval Studies in Kalamazoo each year, which are run by our very own Robin Netherton, have a large majority of their papers presented by researchers who are also SCA Laurels. There's also a new track of hands-on calligraphy classes this year, sponsored by the Cistercian Studies people, featuring two SCA Laurels as the instructors.) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 20:53:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21416 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:53:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071s1i1010728; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071s1M3002159; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071rBM3001925 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from host-66-81-247-138.rev.o1.com ([66.81.247.138] helo=[66.81.244.171]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VivW-00057Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:53:10 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3E194634.1174.1E8966E8@localhost> References: <3E1752A4.32445.16E9B016@localhost> <3E194634.1174.1E8966E8@localhost> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical spinning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:45:13 -0800 Status: RO At 9:02 AM -0800 1/6/03, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: >Another thing is that men tend to be the ones (with a few exceptions >such as Anguissola and Terlinc) painting the pictures and >manuscripts. And while they may be good at figuring out what the >thing looks like if it is right in front of them and remember >somewhat how the person was standing and holding their hands, you >can't depend on it for documentation of how the thing was done. I >still remember the woman to whom I was apprenticed pointing out the >looms in several paintings where they were missing essential pieces >for that particular type of loom. In other words, you can't take the >pictures as evidence of how they were used. (It's better to go to the >textiles themselves.) I used to have a copy of the front cover of an old (i.e. 1920s or '30s) issue of a needlework magazine that had a picture of a pretty, smiling young woman sitting at a spinning wheel. You could easily trace the path of the fiber. It went from the spinning wheel's distaff, to the fingers of the young lady's extended left hand, across to her right hand, and down to the DROP SPINDLE dangling from her hand! I have no idea what the artist thought the spinning wheel was in the picture for! It was drawn, IIRC, with a sloping table, a large wheel, a treadle, and some undefined woody bits sticking up in a very disorganized fashion where the spindle should be..... (wrong, wrong, WRONG!!!) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 20:54:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21427 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:54:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071sBi1010755; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071sBM3002246; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071rHM3001957 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:53:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from host-66-81-247-138.rev.o1.com ([66.81.247.138] helo=[66.81.244.171]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Vivc-00057Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:53:16 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:52:32 -0800 Status: RO By the way, I wish there were a way to counteract the tendency to equate authenticity with morality -- with more authenticity attached to notions of "goodness", sainthood, and virtue and less authenticity equated with "badness" or sinfulness. I think this tendency is probably THE major factor that I see discouraging beginners in our needleworkers' guild. I can't tell you how many people bring things to our "show and tell" and the first words out of their mouths are, "I know this isn't very authentic, but...." in tones ranging from the mildly apologetic to the seriously guilty and ashamed. Having not a lot of self-confidence to begin with, a lot of them seem to be afraid to try a new project or technique, for fear that someone will "pounce" upon them for anything they do "wrong" (i.e. less authentically) and make them look "bad" in front of others. (In reality, of course, authenticity has no moral or "right or wrong" attached to it -- except in the very limited sense that if you have set it as your goal, or if it's a goal of the organization you belong to, meeting it is "good" and not meeting it isn't. But really, it just is not worth the kind of angst and agony that I see all too often being devoted to it.) I think this kind of attitude of having to be "right" in order to be seen as a good person (:-/) is also behind a lot of fervent attempts to "document" materials and techniques that are clearly not typical or available -- we recently went through a discussion on the H-Needlework list about cotton in 16th-century England, and I think it is because someone was trying to document that the cotton embroidery floss in her project "could have been" used in that period. (The consensus was, BTW, that this was highly unlikely -- although cotton cloth and stuffing were not unknown.) I'd much rather see someone in that situation say, "In period they would have used silk, but I used cotton because it's what I had available" (or it's what I could afford, or it came in the right colors, or it has to be machine washable, or whatever the reason was). -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 21:00:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21479 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:00:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07221i1011116; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07221M3004574; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0721tM3004519 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:01:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h072ZhaB015175; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:35:43 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h072ZgcI015173; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:35:42 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Robin Netherton Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301062135.42637.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0721tM3004519 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:35:42 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 06 January 2003 12:50 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: [text cut here] > I remember Ann Landers "settling" an argument about whether one should > wear underwear with pantyhose by saying that the name pantyhose itself > implied that the panties were included, so no other underwear was needed. > That was back when the top part of the pantyhose really looked like a > panty. This soon gave way to the version that was essentially transparent > nylon all over, requiring panties if you wanted any coverage, but these > had a "cotton crotch" that suggested that panties were not expected to be > worn. I suppose. Though I have always worn panties with pantyhose--even when the pantyhose had a "panty"like top and a cotton crotch. I always felt naked with just the pantyhose on.... > And for many years after the adhesive pads were standard, bathroom > machines still sold the garter-belt version ... with the usual two safety > pins in the box to hold them in the panties. I owned a device to hold the non-adhesive pads. It was horrible to use--the pad always twisted, or migrated forward or backward to where it did the least good. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 21:05:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21492 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:05:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07253iV011290; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071w0M3003335; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h071vgM3003251 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:57:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h072VXaB015159; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:31:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h072VWt6015156; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:31:32 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Lalah T Tillinghast Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030106.141002.-494359.3.catpurson@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20030106.141002.-494359.3.catpurson@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301062131.32630.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h071vgM3003251 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:31:32 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 06 January 2003 02:10 pm, Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > <<<. (Yes, panty > hose were available to us in the mid-60s, but they cost as much as a pair > > of shoes did, and I couldn't afford them.)>>> > > And the early ones bagged around the ankles every time you sat > down. I remember that--but at the time I thought it was because of something *I* was doing wrong! -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 22:06:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21667 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:06:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07383i1014305; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07381M3024465; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0737gM3024339 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-6-026.dav.jps.net ([216.119.6.26] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Vk5e-0000qG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 19:07:42 -0800 Message-ID: <001401c2b5fa$f9299aa0$1a0677d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:15:01 -0800 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 5:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad > By the way, I wish there were a way to counteract the tendency to > equate authenticity with morality -- with more authenticity attached > to notions of "goodness", sainthood, and virtue and less > authenticity equated with "badness" or sinfulness. > I totally agree. People are involved in this activity for a variety of reasons and achieve a variety of results that many are happy with without having someone tell that they have no right to be satisfied with their achievements. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 22:15:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21677 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:15:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073G2i1014748; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073G1M3026915; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073FKM3026696 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:15:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m137.in-tch.com [216.166.191.137]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h072wHP29993 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:58:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1A45A5.753CE7B9@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable References: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c2b5c4$ad5d8540$250477d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:12:37 -0700 Status: RO Daggy? --sue Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > Well that puzzles me, as the ability to wear jeans was a criteria for me to > even consider the school and jeans I definitely wore! Nice ones though. > They also had a rule there that men had to wear sox with their shoes and > topsiders or deck shoes, I can't remember the term, were in style and needed > to be worn without sox in order not to look daggy. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 22:18:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21688 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:18:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073K0i1014948; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073K0M3028197; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f46.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073JoM3028118 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:19:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:49:06 -0800 Received: from 66.141.49.162 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 01:49:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.141.49.162] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Clothing Oddities Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2003 01:49:06.0521 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6AD9490:01C2B5EE] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 01:49:06 +0000 Status: RO This I have to respond to - after having done the research, I have to say that I have yet to find a wool fabric light enough for me to wear in temperatures over 50 degrees F - with or without a cotton underitem. People keep telling me it's do-able, and I keep sinking my money into wool garments, but it just hasn't changed. I just end up feeling cranky and sick at the end of the attempt. (and BTW - my first experiences with wool were when I was a child in Ohio and didn't use/need antiperspirants.) Mary/Katerine (who believes there is no winter in Central Texas - there's just a short period of tolerable temperatures between late Nov and mid March.) > > Actually, if those are wool suits and cotton shirts/unders, it's a > > good "air conditioning" system all its own... I wear similar layers in > > wool, in the summer, for mid-19thc stuff, and your body adapts. You > > sweat, yes, but the cotton absorbs that, and then the wool wicks it > > away, and you stay fairly comfortable. Even today, > > summer-weight/tropical weight wool suiting is lighter than many > > cottons! Anti-perspirant interferes greatly though, by inhibiting the > > ability to sweat, and therefore, stalemating the evaporative cooling. > > But otherwise, its a functional, intuitive system... when viewed from > > historic eyes. > >But to someone used to polyester suits and shirts, they would >"intuitively" think (from a modern viewpoint) that what you are >saying (which those of us who've done the research or lived through >it know is correct) is not possible. > >Also, if someone has not lived for prolonged periods without >airconditioning (other than swamp coolers which only work when it is >not humid) they will, by their "modern intuitive" thinking, also >think it's not possible that men would have worn those suits all day >long. They'd probably think that they took off the jacket and vest at >the very least. (Well, we know the clerks in the backroom did, but >not the bankers and business men.) > >Kat Russell > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 22:26:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21744 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:26:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073S1i1015317; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073S1M3000441; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20210.mail.yahoo.com (web20210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h073R2M3029985 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:27:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107032701.51216.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:27:01 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001401c2b5fa$f9299aa0$1a0677d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:27:01 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Laning" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 5:52 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad > > > > By the way, I wish there were a way to counteract > the tendency to > > equate authenticity with morality -- with more > authenticity attached > > to notions of "goodness", sainthood, and virtue > and less > > authenticity equated with "badness" or sinfulness. > > > > I totally agree. People are involved in this > activity for a variety of > reasons and achieve a variety of results that many > are happy with without > having someone tell that they have no right to be > satisfied with their > achievements. I see evidence of this most often when discussing "period" fabric for later period. I use 100% cotton for comfort if at all possible. I've used it in velvet and velveteen, as well as drill for camp/outdoor wear. But in patterned fabrics I use poly/cotton brocades. I can't find pure cotton brocade, let alone with a suitable pattern, and even if I could I wouldn't be able to afford it, let alone silk. I know that in period I would have been wearing silk brocade. But I have heard it suggested to myself and others that I need not use brocade at all, that I could choose to use a plain linen (the rationale being that linen is more "period" than poly/cotton, which of course it is as far as fibre goes). To which I usually reply that I have not found any evidence that linen was used for outerwear until after the SCA period, and what if I don't want to use a plain fabric, what if I want a patterned one? Do you know what the reply was? Well, you could always choose to portray someone of a lower social standing. Basically, if I can't afford to use silk brocade I should stay in my "place". Bah! Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 22:27:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21756 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:27:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073T1i1015361; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073T1M3000714; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h073SfM3000601 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:28:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OurMDpIR9VNQE2xAj9OpcK0="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMVZYHS4; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 22:28:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian coif question (was Authenticity-questions to ponder) Message-ID: <20030106.192458.736.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-34 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:17:50 -0800 Status: RO What's the difference between a reta and a coif? What's a reta? Arlys On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:58:33 +1100 (EST) =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= writes: > --- Talia wrote: > > I don't know...that doesn't look like a coif to me, > > but rather more of a > > reta...? > > > > I don't know too much about the reta, however, using > the reta on Lynn McMaster's page as a guide, this coif > differs from the reta in that 1. the reta is worn > further back on the head and is held in place by means > of a ribbon/cord circlet around the forehead/back of > head, 2. the reta does not smoothly hug the back of > the head and tie under the chin, and finally 3. the > reta is made by cris-crossing cords/ribbons to make a > net - there is none such visible on the lady in the > above painting. > > > > Bella > > http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies > - What's on at your local cinema? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 22:35:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21796 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:35:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073b3i1015796; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073b1M3003073; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073aPM3002902 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:36:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m137.in-tch.com [216.166.191.137]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h073JxP06914 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:19:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1A4AB9.D31AB30D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic blog? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:34:17 -0700 Status: RO They did a good bit on this same thing on NPR-Sunday, yesterday....Really a nifty idea. IIRC, the gentleman being interviewed said he figured it'd be a good way to make the diaries more accessible, since most people would find reading all six volumes a bit...daunting. --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > I saw this on another list. Those who do 17th c. living history already > know Pepys as a great first-person source. This sounds like a fun way to > get familiar with the text... > > ----- > > >From the folks at WhatIs.com: > > http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid26_gci872171,00.ht > ml > > The famous diary that Samuel Pepys (pronounced PEEPS), once the head > of England's Navy, kept during the years 1660-1669 is being made > available online in the form of a weblog. Phil Gyford, who conceived > the idea, is converting the diary, which was already in electronic > form as part of Project Gutenberg, into weblog format using software > called Movable Type. He added Pepys' entry for January 1, 1660 on > January 1, 2003, and is adding a new entry each day. In its current > form, Pepys' weblog allows a reader to create a public annotation, > asking or answering a question or perhaps explaining some now obscure > 17th century term that Pepys uses. The weblog site includes an > overview and other historical background. Hypertext links are > provided where Pepys mentions historical events and specific people. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 22:49:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21832 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:49:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073p4i1016824; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073p2M3007352; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073oBM3007040 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:50:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip245.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.245]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h073nwi10982 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:50:03 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity Message-ID: <3E19DBB0.3138.20D16846@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E18863B.25814.1B9B6253@localhost> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20030106092629.00d7fa20@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 19:40:32 -0800 Status: RO > > > We should collect examples of all the idiotically unsuitable > > > things we've worn over the years! It will give costume historians > > > of the future a good laugh. > > > >Ooo, you mean like 3 piece suits (jacket, vest and pants, with shirt > >and undershirt) worn by men in unairconditioned business offices in > >the 1950s and before? > > You omitted the useful necktie. Ooops. You are soooo right! Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 22:49:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21836 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:49:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073pGi1016849; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:51:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h073pFM3007457; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20210.mail.yahoo.com (web20210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h073omM3007230 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:50:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107035047.55052.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:50:47 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian coif question (was Authenticity-questions to ponder) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030106.192458.736.0.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:50:47 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Cynthia J Ley wrote: > What's the difference between a reta and a coif? > What's a reta? This is a reta: and Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 23:09:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21885 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:09:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074B4i1017826; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074B1M3013367; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074AQM3013229 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:10:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10545 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:21:28 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:21:28 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Chris Laning wrote: > (I think it's kind of an open secret by now that the DISTAFF sessions > on textiles at the International Congress for Medieval Studies in > Kalamazoo each year, which are run by our very own Robin Netherton, > have a large majority of their papers presented by researchers who are > also SCA Laurels. Well, I wouldn't say "large majority," but I'd guess half or a bit more of the DISTAFF papers in recent years have come from SCA people. It just seems like more because they're the coolest papers, with the fun hands-on examples and live reproductions, that people are likely to remember. ;-) And not all of the SCA people who present for us are Laurels, though I haven't counted, and frankly wouldn't know which ones are. I don't pay much attention to SCA ranks; I look for people who are operating on an academic level, which doesn't always equate to SCA recognition. Let me do a quick count ... In the last five years, we've had 36 paper presenters, counting some people twice because they've presented twice in that time (and not counting our roundtable leaders last year). Of these, 19 were active SCA members and 17 were not. Four of the non-SCA presenters (including me) were at one time in the SCA, though in most cases in the very distant past. Most of the SCA people who present for DISTAFF find us either via direct contact with me or another DISTAFF presenter, or because they've come to Kalamazoo and attended our sessions. Most of the non-SCA academics come to us through direct contact with my co-organizer, Gale Owen-Crocker, or because they're already hoping to submit a paper for the conference and they're looking for a track suitable for a presentation on a dress/textile topic. For instance, this year, after our sessions filled, I got proposals from two non-SCA academics who approached DISTAFF after seeing us listed in the call for papers; I sent them to another organizer looking to put together a costume-themed session, thus filling that session. Re-enactment makes a fertile breeding ground for textile/dress presenters because costume is such a popular area of work for re-enactors, but there isn't much place for this area of research in academia, so people who are interested in the topic often wind up pursuing it through a re-enactment group. We've pulled people from other re-enactment groups besides the SCA, though there aren't that many groups in the U.S. doing medieval. I suppose you can say we "cherry-pick" from the top rank of SCA and re-enactment researchers -- the people who are doing academic-quality work but don't already have a connection with academia. Their work deserves a wider audience, and they may be looking for a way to take their work to the next level. DISTAFF and the Kalamazoo conference can provide the point of crossover for them. Still, I rarely approach people unless we've got a very specific gap to fill -- e.g. when we had a Greenland session I asked Marc Carlson to fill our third space, and when we had a session on non-woven textiles I approached Ann Marie Decker, an SCA person known for naalbinding. Usually, though, I wait for people to reach the point where they want to make the leap and propose a paper. It's also worth noting that many of our SCA presenters find their way to DISTAFF sessions not because we pulled them out of the SCA, but because they are already academics in their own right and coming to the conference for professional reasons. These people come to our slate on the basis of their academic work, not by what they happen to do as a hobby. Some of them went into medieval studies after whetting their appetite in the SCA; some of them found the SCA after they were doing medieval studies as academics. I don't think any of them would point to their SCA work as any sort of credential. But that's fine. The purpose of the SCA is not to produce scholarly researchers. The fact that a few people find their way into scholarly research via the SCA is a happy byproduct of the organization, and more a reflection on those individuals' talent and interests rather than anything that the organization expects from them. I am very grateful that the SCA allows people the chance to come into contact with the concept of medieval scholarship, and to consider whether they'd like to pursue that on their own. > There's also a new track of hands-on calligraphy classes this year, > sponsored by the Cistercian Studies people, featuring two SCA Laurels > as the instructors.) Ah, that's nice! When I first came to K'zoo in the early 1980s, there were some hands-on book arts sessions for several years (calligraphy, bookbinding, papermaking, typecasting) run by a non-SCA academic. He brought in absolutely stellar teachers, too, who did historic bookwork professionally. I fear that 20 years ago, medieval academia was not as accepting of the hands-on approach to research as it is now, and the organizer of those sessions suffered in not being taken seriously. (Heaven forfend that someone might suggest that manuscript scholars might actually gain a better understanding of manuscripts if they tried making one themselves.) This was the atmosphere in which I first started presenting papers on costume (and *in* costume, a very daring thing). I am glad to report there has been a huge change since then. Every year now, there are several high-profile sessions or events that involve "experimental archaeology." Scholars have built and tested a trebuchet, sailed a Viking longship on the campus pond, laid out a medieval cathedral using cords and stakes, and watched swordsmanship demonstrations based on medieval fighting manuals. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 23:24:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21946 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:24:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074Q3i1018600; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074Q1M3017858; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074PVM3017699 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:25:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip236.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.124.236]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h074PQW04731 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:25:27 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad Message-ID: <3E19E3F0.19664.20F1A23D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:15:44 -0800 Status: RO > I think this tendency is probably THE major factor that I see > discouraging beginners in our needleworkers' guild. I can't tell you > how many people bring things to our "show and tell" and the first > words out of their mouths are, "I know this isn't very authentic, > but...." in tones ranging from the mildly apologetic to the seriously > guilty and ashamed. > > Having not a lot of self-confidence to begin with, a lot of them seem > to be afraid to try a new project or technique, for fear that someone > will "pounce" upon them for anything they do "wrong" (i.e. less > authentically) and make them look "bad" in front of others. Amen to that. I keep running into people telling others that they should *never* use Aida cloth. I usually step in and say "for goodness sake, go ahead and use it until you are sure of your stitching. It's an excellent learning tool and you will learn it more easily if you aren't trying to figure out patterns *and* how to get even stitches at the same time. Then, when you are more comfortable, try some of the even weave linen. It can be really fun if you aren't frustrated by the learning process." I also mention that I still work out some of my patterns on aida so that they are easier to see and I don't have to drag a piece of paper around with me. > (In reality, of course, authenticity has no moral or "right or wrong" > attached to it -- except in the very limited sense that if you have > set it as your goal, or if it's a goal of the organization you belong > to, meeting it is "good" and not meeting it isn't. But really, it just > is not worth the kind of angst and agony that I see all too often > being devoted to it.) And it is only important if it is important to *you*. Far too often I see people doing the "holier than thou" routine. They turn even a simple learning thing into a competition. (It seems to go hand in hand with not wanting to teach or share information with others who have similar interests.) > I think this kind of attitude of having to be "right" in order to be > seen as a good person (:-/) is also behind a lot of fervent attempts > to "document" materials and techniques that are clearly not typical or > available -- we recently went through a discussion on the > H-Needlework list about cotton in 16th-century England, and I think > it is because someone was trying to document that the cotton > embroidery floss in her project "could have been" used in that period. > (The consensus was, BTW, that this was highly unlikely -- although > cotton cloth and stuffing were not unknown.) Ah, yes. Post-documentation for things already manufactured. I keep wondering how it is that people don't realize that it's much easier to do the documentation first, find your best sources of the stuff (or be able to say "not available so this was the best I could come up with") and *then* make it. Saves a lot of hassles of trying to document the undocumentable. And if you can't document it, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. It just means that it isn't as suitable for a contest. And missing a contest is *not* the end of the world. > I'd much rather see someone in that situation say, "In period they > would have used silk, but I used cotton because it's what I had > available" (or it's what I could afford, or it came in the right > colors, or it has to be machine washable, or whatever the reason was). Exactly! Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 23:56:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22037 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:56:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074w4i1020109; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:58:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074w2M3027007; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074viM3026829 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.244.102.97.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.244.102.97] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Vlo7-0001Jc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:57:43 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030106224222.036d9010@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 23:57:23 -0500 Status: RO I'm a couple of years younger than the "no pants in school" set and a couple of years older than the "jeans have always been OK in school" set. The short and long of my pants-in-school story is: --nursery school, yes, except on birthday-party days, graduation, or promotion; --kindergarten, yes if your teacher allowed it (mine did); --first through third grades, no; --fourth grade, it kind of got slipped in by one girl; --fifth grade, yes -- if it was something like a pants suit (long tunic and slacks), and hot pants were allowed when they became big in the spring of 1971; --sixth grade, the teacher complained about everything we wore; --seventh grade and onwards, pants were OK. Jeans became acceptable around 1973 or 1974, IIRC. Now, there are a couple of quirks to *my* "appropriate to wear to school" experience: --In ninth grade (1974-75), the Junior High principal forbad me to wear my *Girl Scout uniform* to school "because it's too militaristic". *sigh* --In my senior year of high school (1977-1978), the principal forbad *me* wearing shorts to school, even though he let *every other girl* in the school wear them. It had nothing to do with my weight or my figure; it had to do with *him* thinking that as one of the school's top students (and having broken some new ground in those directions), I should "be above" wearing anything that, umm, displayed any flesh or provided any modicum of comfort during those late spring days of one's senior year... Regarding *Margo's* jeans experience, I recall that in the mid-70's, there was a trend of wearing a coordinated wet set of beaded and/or embroidered jeans/denim-slacks with a matching man-tailored overshirts or shirt jacket. Grandpa was working in the juniors-wholesale industry at the time. Instead of bringing home normal blue jeans, he brought me these coordinated denim sets, in styles and designs geared for the twentysomething woman -- not the thirteen-year-old junior-high-schooler! OTOH, once I got some *real* blue jeans, I did spend several weekend afternoons embroidering them... As far as impractical clothing of our times: --the previously-mentioned "sizzler" skirts which were so short (shorter than micro-minis) that you needed matching/attached bikini panties under them for modesty; --hot pants and hot-pant-legged jumpsuits (one of which nearly caused me a case of frostbite when the school's Late Bus never showed up); --fish-net stockings; --tank tops; --nylon hosiery (IMNSHO the bane of almost every woman's professional existence!); --high-heeled shoes; --too-tiny-for-a-tube-of-lipstick handbags; --the super-low-rise, over-sized, deliberately-falling-off-your-pelvis-and-exposing-your-underpants jeans some of the youth of the '90's wore all the time; --ladies' clothes *without* *pockets*... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 6 23:58:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22041 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:58:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07501i1020184; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07500M3027577; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h074x4M3027326 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.244.102.97.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.244.102.97] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VlpP-0002o3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:59:04 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030106173113.036d9010@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Busts & Prudes/Woodcuts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 17:33:23 -0500 Status: RO Robin wrote: >I have a copy of a promo brochure from the National Gallery in Washington >from 2/91, when they had an exhibit up called (I think) "Eva/Ave" or >something like that... I probably have the entire exhibit catalog >somewhere; if there's interest, I'll dig it out and >see what it says about exposed bosoms. Yes, it's "Eva/Ave", and I recently found the catalogue on a discount rack. If you can't find it, I'll be able to get to it Wednesday night when I'm back in New Jersey. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 00:04:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22070 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:04:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07561i1020506; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07560M3029550; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07556M3029193 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-33qtk63.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.208.195] helo=pavilion) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VlvF-0003vj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 21:05:05 -0800 Message-ID: <001c01c2b60b$5e6d1da0$c3d0aec7@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030107032701.51216.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:12:23 -0800 Status: RO > Bella wrote: > I see evidence of this most often when discussing > "period" fabric for later period. I use 100% cotton > for comfort if at all possible. I've used it in velvet > and velveteen, as well as drill for camp/outdoor wear. > But in patterned fabrics I use poly/cotton brocades. I > can't find pure cotton brocade, let alone with a > suitable pattern, and even if I could I wouldn't be > able to afford it, let alone silk. > > I know that in period I would have been wearing silk > brocade. But I have heard it suggested to myself and > others that I need not use brocade at all, that I > could choose to use a plain linen (the rationale being > that linen is more "period" than poly/cotton, which of > course it is as far as fibre goes). To which I usually > reply that I have not found any evidence that linen > was used for outerwear until after the SCA period, and > what if I don't want to use a plain fabric, what if I > want a patterned one? Do you know what the reply was? > Well, you could always choose to portray someone of a > lower social standing. Basically, if I can't afford to > use silk brocade I should stay in my "place". Bah! I have a couple of viewpoints on this and can see this from a number of angles. My main background in the living history/costuming field is as an event planner for a small museum. I know how to run profitable historical events. As the museum was an educational institution there was an obligation and desire to make events we hosted as historically accurate as possible. It also differentiated us from the competing medieval fayre in town so it was a commercial imperative. We PAID re-enactors, including the SCA, to perform at our Medieval Tournament and had costume standards that sometimes differed from the internal standards of the groups we employed. We did encourage those who could not afford to use natural fiber fabric for nobility (poly.cotton brocade would have been fine if in a period motif), to choose a lesser station in life to add authenticity to our event. But it was not from a "moral" standpoint or to put anyone in their place. It improved the overall look of the event, ticket sales went up, and we paid the groups increasingly more and bought more props for the re-enactors to use. Everyone benefited. Standards were not implemented to put anyone in their place or to belittle them. We were putting on a show for a paying public and wanted to deliver on providing a medieval experience to them. But along with that, an enormous amount of effort was given to assist in providing pattern drafting knowledge, discount fabric, library access, whatever we could do to provide resources to participants we did. The put downs you have described sound more like someone's ego trips than concerns about standards, standards just happen to be the form they are currently using to launch the assault, and the only thing option under those circumstances is to be above it, don't let it get to you. Laugh, sometimes at yourself, occasionally at the other person. A knight that looks like B1 from Banana's in Pajamas is funny but the person out there trying and having fun is not a lesser being because of it and the person who thinks so is laughable to me in another way. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 00:31:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22173 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:31:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075X4i1021447; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:33:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075X1M3007465; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075WaM3007337 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:32:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0766UaB015587; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:06:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0766U8d015585; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:06:30 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, kat@grendal.rain.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200301041858.25364.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3E18863B.22646.1B9B641A@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3E18863B.22646.1B9B641A@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301070106.29784.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h075WaM3007337 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:06:29 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 05 January 2003 10:23 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > I joined the SCA in 1971, and I was not aware that the SCA considered > > itself a living history group. I get my living history elsewhere. > > It shows up along with Williamsburg, Plimoth, ACL groups and the like > in the books devoted to Living History. Knowing what I do about SCA activities (some of which I have attended even though I've never been a member), this surprises me somewhat. >Although there is a lot of > fringe population in the SCA who prefer to play rather than study, it > is chartered through the IRS as a non-profit educational group with > their articles of incorporation stating: > The purposes for which this corporation is formed include: > (a) Research and education in the field of pre-17th-Century Western > Culture. > (b) Generally, to engage in research; publish material of relevance > and interest to the field of pre-17th- Century Western Culture; to > present activities and events which re-create the environment of said > era, such as, but not limited to, tournaments, jousts, fairs, dances, > classes, et cetera; to acquire authentic or reproduced replicas of > chattels representative of said era; and to collect a library. This description of the SCA's charter doesn't surprise me. The key terms are, however, "engage in research" and "present activities and events which recreate the environment of said era". The SCA does lots of activities which are components of living history, but the typical SCA event is *not* living history. (No event that mingles Vikings with Elizabethan courtiers is "living history" in my books.) > So, in spite of the people uninterested in the stated reason for the > SCA, there are people like myself, Drea and others who do the > research in this way. By definition it is a "living history" group. See above. I think of "living history" as limited to the groups that attempt to recreate personas and events from a specific and fairly narrow period. Don't get me wrong. I like the fact that SCA is not pure "living history." But I think that labeling it as living history (as you've demonstrated many people, including arguably the SCA itself, do) gives a mistaken impression about what SCA events are like. > The parts I find most difficult to reconcile is the tolerance for the > post 1600 Western Europe and all the Oriental and Central American > personas which are tolerated. I have more problems with the time paradoxes than with the cultural breadth. It was possible (though probably very rare) for an African, Chinese, or Central Asian alive in 1550 to end up at the court of Elizabeth Tudor. It is not, and never could have been possible, for Egil Skallagrimson to have a dinner conversation with Dr. John Dee. >However, it is set up as an inclusive > group (with the hope that people will "grow" into the Western Culture > part) Why? I actually think that the SCA's expansion to include non-Western European cultures is a good thing. Just because most Western Europeans, in (SCA) period, were unlikely ever to meet a non-Western European, does not mean that such creatures did not exist, and learning about them can enrich our understanding of what Western European culture was like. >rather than an exclusive group where you just about have to be > perfect before you can play at all. I agree with this part. :-) > For many of us, the SCA has given us a venue where we can do the > costume and costume research, and have a place to wear it and > teach/learn about it, rather than sitting home without a social > occasion to wear it. I can relate to this. I usually wear my costumes at science fiction conventions (where nearly anything sartorial goes) or make costumes specifically for live action roleplaying events (an amazing number of which have been based on historical events to greater or lesser degrees). But the SCA certainly supplies an excellent venue for the wearing of costume. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 00:35:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22188 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:35:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075b4i1021588; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075b1M3008522; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075ahM3008405 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:36:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h076AVaB015602; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:10:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h076AVXi015600; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:10:31 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <4.3.1.2.20030105090020.00d5e600@mail.frys.com> <200301041858.25364.cathy@thyrsus.com> <4.3.1.2.20030106095106.00d605d0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030106095106.00d605d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301070110.31235.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h075ahM3008405 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:10:31 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 06 January 2003 12:59 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >So, in spite of the people uninterested in the stated reason for the > >SCA, there are people like myself, Drea and others who do the > >research in this way. By definition it is a "living history" group. > > But they don't think of themselves as a living history group, nor do they > 'play' like a living history group. Right. That was my point. The charter mentions recreation, but in the context of specific activities. [text cut here] > You forgot about the newcomer's organizations within the SCA, dedicated to > helping clothe the newcomers and get them integrated into the SCA as easily > as possible. But most other living history groups have these too, if > unofficially. Judging by the comments I see on the Web sites of various recreation/living history groups, that's true. In addition, the SCA's minimum clothing requirement is very low. "Perioid" is usually close enough, and people whose interests do not focus on historic costume don't exceed the minimum. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 00:43:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22211 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:43:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075j2i1021838; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075j1M3010599; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075iJM3010412 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030107054414.HWYI3094.out003.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:44:14 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re:Clothing Oddities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out003.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:44:14 -0600 Message-Id: <20030107054414.HWYI3094.out003.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 0:44:14 -0500 Status: RO > > From: "Mary Temple" > Date: 2003/01/06 Mon PM 08:49:06 EST > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Clothing Oddities > > This I have to respond to - after having done the research, I have to say > that I have yet to find a wool fabric light enough for me to wear in > temperatures over 50 degrees F - with or without a cotton underitem. People > keep telling me it's do-able, and I keep sinking my money into wool > garments, but it just hasn't changed. I just end up feeling cranky and sick > at the end of the attempt. > Interesting, I consider 50 degrees f. cold. Even now that I am on U.S. east coast. I do wear wool in tempertures twice that accompanied by 90 to 100% humidity. I don't tend to wear cotton under it though, I wear linen. To day I wasn't, nor was I wearing historic clothing, I would have been warmer if I had. Cheers, R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 00:57:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22230 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:57:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075x1i1022440; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075x0M3014100; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h075w9M3013898 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:58:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h076W3aB015720; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:32:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h076W2Ea015718; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:32:02 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> <200301051347.33224.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301070132.02491.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h075w9M3013898 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:32:02 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 06 January 2003 08:50 pm, Chris Laning wrote: > At 1:47 PM -0500 1/5/03, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >I have never heard anyone *in* the SCA express the believe that SCA is a > >living history group (in fact, I have no idea exactly how the SCA > > classifies itself). However, non-members get that impression and say > > things to that effect. > > I think it's largely a terminology problem -- there was a recent > discussion of this on a historical re-enactment list I belong to. Believe it or not, I saw a recent discussion of the issue on larpa-gen; a list that discussed live action roleplaying games. > > It arises, I think, because some people use several terms more or > less interchangeably, including "re-creation", "recreation" (yes, > those two are different), Are they? Unless you mean "recreation" in its primary role as "having fun...." "re-enactment", "living history", and so > forth. > > Others define each term separately and mean something distinctly > different by each one. > > In the general sense, the SCA and Renaissance faires are the biggest > and most typical "historical hobby" (for lack of a better term) "Historical hobby" is at least unlikely to be confused with any of the other terms that have been applied to the SCA and to some of the SCA activities we are discussing. > organizations in the U.S. Both embrace a very broad range of people, > and have usually been described in my experience as "recreation" -- > which seems to be the broadest term, meaning whatever bits of history > people want to do for fun-and-educational-value. I have never heard the term "recreation" used that way or specifically distinguished from "re-creation". But what do I know? > Both include in > their ranks people doing serious historical research, people who are > there to party, people in love with the romance of history, people > who are there because their friends are, people who want to be > creative, and every degree, variation and combination of the above. > > People who don't differentiate among the terms I've mentioned above, > or who define them differently, may describe their participation in > Faire or the SCA by any term they please. I've heard "living > history," for example, used to describe Faire, because the term is > often defined as a demonstration of historical dress, crafts, skills, > lifestyle etc. for a non-participating public, as is done to > different degrees at historic sites. I've never been to a Ren Faire that made any pretense at "demonstating" historical dress craft or skills. However my experience in this regard is limited to the Pennsylvania Ren Faire, which is mostly run like a perioid theme park. I understand that some Ren Faire are quite rigorous about historical dress, speech, and manner, but I've not been so fortunate as to attend one. > I've also noticed an increasing trend in recent years for those > people who are trying to do academic-style historical research in > these organizations to try to find some other term to refer to > themselves. "Re-enactment" is the one I hear most often, probably > because in the U.S. it's the term used by many American Civil War and > Revolutionary War organizations, who aim for as much authenticity as > they see possible, and also by many of the European historical > groups, which tend to be smaller, less diverse and to have similar > authenticity standards. > > Also, for anyone who also moves in academic historical circles -- as > a small, but increasing number of us do -- "re-enactment" seems to be > a term that academics recognize and are willing to respect. Due to > their diversity and, um, widely varying degrees of seriousness , > admitting to an SCA or Faire background doesn't exactly give you a > good academic reputation. Unfortunate. I personally believe that "re-enactment", or whatever term one wishes to use about hands-on attempts to experiment with historic skills in order to learn about/understand/re-create historic tailoring, etc. techniques is part of the wave of the future in broadening our knowledge of historic costume (that and advances in preserving and wringing information from textile specimens discovered by archaelogists.) In The World of Roman Costume (which I got as a present for my last birthday), a collection of essays by scholars specializing in ancient Roman costume, the last essay in the book was about a project where the participants attempted to reproduce and wear various forms of Roman costume. The project head, who wrote the essay and made most of the costumes, described the problems she had in doing so on the small budget (about $700 U.S.D., I think), and discussed some of the compromises that had to be made. What comes to me most strongly was the sense that the participants had fun as well as learning from the project. I think we need more of that kind of scholarship (I know I'm preaching to the choir, here). :-) -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 01:04:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22270 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:04:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07662i1022826; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07661M3016135; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0765JM3015874 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:05:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m49.in-tch.com [216.166.191.49]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h075miP22827 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:48:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1A6D98.E85FCED5@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder References: <200301041858.25364.cathy@thyrsus.com> <3E18863B.22646.1B9B641A@localhost> <200301070106.29784.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 23:03:04 -0700 Status: RO *sigh* As much as I like to talk about the SCA (both its good and its less-than-optimal parts, and I've been around for a long time, so I've *seen* them! ), and as much as I definitely have strong reactions to some of the things being said about it that have been spawned off this thread, H-costume is _really_ not the place to be discussing it. One of the best things I like about this list, in fact, is that it _isn't_ an SCA list. I respectfully request that we kill this line of discussion, and get back to actually talking about costume, please. Stuff coming in under this subject line isn't even about authenticity anymore.... --sue Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > On Sunday 05 January 2003 10:23 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > I joined the SCA in 1971, and I was not aware that the SCA considered > > > itself a living history group. I get my living history elsewhere. > > > > It shows up along with Williamsburg, Plimoth, ACL groups and the like > > in the books devoted to Living History. > > Knowing what I do about SCA activities (some of which I have attended even > though I've never been a member), this surprises me somewhat. > > >Although there is a lot of > > fringe population in the SCA who prefer to play rather than study, it > > is chartered through the IRS as a non-profit educational group with > > their articles of incorporation stating: > > The purposes for which this corporation is formed include: > > (a) Research and education in the field of pre-17th-Century Western > > Culture. > > (b) Generally, to engage in research; publish material of relevance > > and interest to the field of pre-17th- Century Western Culture; to > > present activities and events which re-create the environment of said > > era, such as, but not limited to, tournaments, jousts, fairs, dances, > > classes, et cetera; to acquire authentic or reproduced replicas of > > chattels representative of said era; and to collect a library. > > This description of the SCA's charter doesn't surprise me. The key terms are, > however, "engage in research" and "present activities and events which > recreate the environment of said era". The SCA does lots of activities which > are components of living history, but the typical SCA event is *not* living > history. (No event that mingles Vikings with Elizabethan courtiers is > "living history" in my books.) > > > So, in spite of the people uninterested in the stated reason for the > > SCA, there are people like myself, Drea and others who do the > > research in this way. By definition it is a "living history" group. > > See above. I think of "living history" as limited to the groups that attempt > to recreate personas and events from a specific and fairly narrow period. > > Don't get me wrong. I like the fact that SCA is not pure "living history." > But I think that labeling it as living history (as you've demonstrated many > people, including arguably the SCA itself, do) gives a mistaken impression > about what SCA events are like. > > > The parts I find most difficult to reconcile is the tolerance for the > > post 1600 Western Europe and all the Oriental and Central American > > personas which are tolerated. > > I have more problems with the time paradoxes than with the cultural breadth. > It was possible (though probably very rare) for an African, Chinese, or > Central Asian alive in 1550 to end up at the court of Elizabeth Tudor. It is > not, and never could have been possible, for Egil Skallagrimson to have a > dinner conversation with Dr. John Dee. > > >However, it is set up as an inclusive > > group (with the hope that people will "grow" into the Western Culture > > part) > > Why? I actually think that the SCA's expansion to include non-Western > European cultures is a good thing. Just because most Western Europeans, in > (SCA) period, were unlikely ever to meet a non-Western European, does not > mean that such creatures did not exist, and learning about them can enrich > our understanding of what Western European culture was like. > > >rather than an exclusive group where you just about have to be > > perfect before you can play at all. > > I agree with this part. :-) > > > For many of us, the SCA has given us a venue where we can do the > > costume and costume research, and have a place to wear it and > > teach/learn about it, rather than sitting home without a social > > occasion to wear it. > > I can relate to this. > > I usually wear my costumes at science fiction conventions (where nearly > anything sartorial goes) or make costumes specifically for live action > roleplaying events (an amazing number of which have been based on historical > events to greater or lesser degrees). But the SCA certainly supplies an > excellent venue for the wearing of costume. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 01:07:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22276 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:07:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07691i1022934; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07690M3016933; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0768UM3016797 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:08:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h076bPaB015735; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:37:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h076bPAO015733; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:37:25 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, kat@grendal.rain.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <3E17E50A.21793.1925A233@localhost> <3E18863C.10188.1B9B666F@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3E18863C.10188.1B9B666F@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301070137.24850.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0768UM3016797 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:37:24 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 05 January 2003 10:23 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: [text cut here] > > Well, if you ever want to try it, look around for a weaving store > which has classes. They frequently will have looms for in-store rent > for class use. Or find a friend with a loom (which is what I did.) I have plenty of friends with computers, but none with a loom. The only one I know who probably has a loom is my sister-in-law, who lives 3000 miles away, in Seattle, WA. > It > can be really fun, although it is a royal pain in the tuckus to set > up the warp for it. That's one of the things that deters me. I understand weaving well enough to know I don't have the patience to put up with the warping process for anything wider than a (narrow) belt.... >It's one of the primary reasons why I never went > in for getting my own loom. Setting up for an inkle loom or a > cardweaving project is enough of a pain for me. ;) I'm with you on this one. :-) I think about buying an inkle loom from time to time. But I have little enough time to spend on things like weaving that it's never seemed worth the investment. > > And you can also get books on weaving. There are several good ones > out there which talk about different loom types, how to set them up > and what you can do on them. (I have more than 30 books on the > subject of various looms and weaving patterns.) Also, there are many > books (such as Agnes Geijer's History of Textiles and Margrethe > Hald's Danish bog book) which are better at explaining this sort of > stuff than I can be because they have pictures and drawings which > make understanding this stuff much easier and relate it to the > textiles themselves in an historic way (rather than as a "here is how > you set up a loom to make modern handwovens for selling at craft > fairs or boutiques.") I have a copy of Hald's book. It's wonderful, but I wouldn't have a prayer in the universe of understanding the process without being able to play with it on my own. Even tinkering a bit with card weaving has helped me so much in trying to understand other forms of weaving. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 03:20:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06510 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:20:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h078MBi1026878; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:22:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h078M1CQ021621; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h078LPCQ021480 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AE046AF7004E; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:21:24 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AE041D97001E; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:21:24 -0600 Message-ID: <010201c2b625$d38d6760$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Cheap Thrills Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:21:49 -0500 Status: RO Okay, I get my cheap thrills when I can use some fashion history knowledge that I just learned when talking with the general public. I keep seeing all these physicians and they always try to make small talk by asking what job is during examinations. First, most don't have a clue, even if I try to explain. I sometimes wonder if they think I just play with Barbies and love to just shop for clothes. I have learned to say historic fashions to the general public instead of costume. If I say costume, the next thing they ask is do I work with Halloween or film costumes. Today when a new doctor walked into the patient room.... he was carrying a Boston Bag!!! So I commented on it and called it a Boston Bag. I told him that last week I put images of two types of medical bags from 1922 (from the Rubber Catalog) on my website. He proceeded to tell me about how the Boston Bags are so fashionable for upper end doctors... other construction details about bag. Then I explained what I do and he understood its value. I didn't get the Play with Barbies look. Ah-hah! Now this one doctor understands the purpose of my job and what I do!!! And I used something new I learned. YIPPEEE!!! See I told you I get my thrills cheap. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 05:09:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01886 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:09:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07AB2i1000174; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07AB1CQ017905; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07AAvCQ017876 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:10:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.189]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8C0099G9M7OB@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:10:57 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20030106171747.00e2a340@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107014034.00d71890@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <00a901c2b5d9$44a219c0$250477d8@pavilion> <20030106.122415.-374327.1.luann.mason@juno.com> <003b01c2b5c5$92888340$250477d8@pavilion> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 01:45:24 -0800 Status: RO > >Now that I think about it, the arguement at the time was that denim was now > >a general fashion fabric and just because you wore it didn't mean you wanted > >to overthrow the establishment. > >LOL! in the late 70's I worked at a department store where the rule was, >you couldn't wear just jeans, but a coordinated denim pants outfit was >okay. I had a pair of denim pants/jeans that had an asinine little bib >thingy that buttoned on, for an overalls sort of effect. With the bib, the >pants were okay with my supervisor, without it, I was wearing JEANS and >that couldn't be condoned. I remember in the 90s, at a trade school, that the only reason I could get away with wearing single-colour t-shirts was by convincing the Powers That Be that they were really 'knit tops'. I invested in several pairs of non-blue-jeans, from the local thrift store, for the same purpose. Everyone in the school was intending to be either front-office types (they took the business classes) or computer hardware types (we took the electronics classes). The dress code only made sense for the former, not for the latter. The difference between the shirt-and-necktie thing and some of the haircuts on some of the wearers of same was always amusing. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 05:09:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01890 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:09:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ABKi1000201; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:11:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ABKCQ018071; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:11:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07AAvCS017876 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:10:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.189]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8C0099G9M7OB@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:10:57 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad In-reply-to: <001401c2b5fa$f9299aa0$1a0677d8@pavilion> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107015026.00d71db0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:10:50 -0800 Status: RO > > By the way, I wish there were a way to counteract the tendency to > > equate authenticity with morality -- with more authenticity attached > > to notions of "goodness", sainthood, and virtue and less > > authenticity equated with "badness" or sinfulness. > > > >I totally agree. People are involved in this activity for a variety of >reasons and achieve a variety of results that many are happy with without >having someone tell that they have no right to be satisfied with their >achievements. The converse is having to apologize for having the level of standards of how good is good enough for us that some of us have here. In some groups I don't get to say how authentic I like to have my own stuff, and in others I must make jokes about it so as not to make people nervous or frighten them. Anymore, if I am attempting to teach, I ask what level of authenticity they are going for, or if that even matters (I do science fiction media-re-creation costumes too). But it's not period to tell someone they're not period. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 05:09:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01894 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:09:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ABPi1000222; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:11:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ABOCQ018100; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:11:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07AAwCQ017885 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:10:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.189]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8C0099G9M7OB@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:10:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: cotton damask/brocade (was Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad In-reply-to: <20030107032701.51216.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107015718.00d70a50@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <001401c2b5fa$f9299aa0$1a0677d8@pavilion> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:00:12 -0800 Status: RO >I >can't find pure cotton brocade, let alone with a >suitable pattern, and even if I could I wouldn't be >able to afford it, let alone silk. Try upholstery and drapery places. That's where I get all my cotton damask in Ren. patterns. I like the Hancock Fabric Warehouse upholstery flat-fold tables, and I routinely go to several in my area if I am in the market for this. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 05:10:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01900 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:10:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ABUi1000237; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ABTCQ018129; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:11:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07AAwCS017885 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.189]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8C0099G9M7OB@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder In-reply-to: <200301070132.02491.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107020558.00d6a2d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030104.152237.-555631.6.catpurson@juno.com> <200301051347.33224.cathy@thyrsus.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:08:39 -0800 Status: RO > > People who don't differentiate among the terms I've mentioned above, > > or who define them differently, may describe their participation in > > Faire or the SCA by any term they please. I've heard "living > > history," for example, used to describe Faire, because the term is > > often defined as a demonstration of historical dress, crafts, skills, > > lifestyle etc. for a non-participating public, as is done to > > different degrees at historic sites. > >I've never been to a Ren Faire that made any pretense at "demonstating" >historical dress craft or skills. However my experience in this regard is >limited to the Pennsylvania Ren Faire, which is mostly run like a perioid >theme park. I understand that some Ren Faire are quite rigorous about >historical dress, speech, and manner, but I've not been so fortunate as to >attend one. There are groups within the big Ren Faires in California, and some groups who do the smaller Faires, who play it this way. Most don't. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 05:58:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02028 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:58:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07B06i1001547; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07B04CQ027214; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h07Ax6CQ026994 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:59:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107105906.53749.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 10:59:06 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: and here we go again, was Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030107015026.00d71db0@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:59:06 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > But it's not period to tell someone they're not period. Agreed. But... We have had this same discussion for goodness knows how many times. Is it just me and am I the only one who wants to scream "for crying out loud, can't we just all let everyone do what they want to do?" I am tired of hearing how 'mean' people are who want to be very authentic to those who don't; I am tired of hearing how 'mean' people are who don't want to be very authentic to those who are. I know it happens out there, but I for one would like to live with the notion of Live and Let Live! I love costumes. Authentic, not authentic, fantasy, historical, I don't give a doodah! The only thing that makes me mad is when someone _claims_ they are very authentic but use polyester for example. Makes sense? Otherwise, let's just all enjoy historical costumes... Okay, I guess my fever is still too high and the flu still too bad but I just felt that I had to say it. *sneefs* Nicole - *coughcoughhackle* ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 06:25:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02151 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:25:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07BR5i1002222; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:27:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07BR0CQ002687; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (mta4-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07BQNCQ002555 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:26:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.8.246]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030107112621.QKAI29609.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:26:21 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <9B8B7908-223A-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Subject: [h-cost] OT:Textile & garb advice needed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:21:54 +0000 Status: RO I'm doing another International move at the end of the month.My concern is for my textiles and various pieces of garb & costumes that will have to be stored with the Moving Co. from the 15th of January - between addresses.Due to insurance stipulations,I'm only allowed to pack my most valuable/historic fabrics myself,everything else has to be done by the Movers.So far its looks as if my goods and chattels will be in storage some eight weeks. Does anyone on the List have any suggestions and advice as to what I can use as moth and rodent deterrents to slip into the crates and 'wardrobes' provided,which will protect my stuff?(I'm not keen on using the conventional mothballs since I don't want the textiles to reek forever after when I get them back.But can't think of anything right at the mo' myself.) I'm rather twitched about this issue since I had need to wear my best suit just before 'Xmas and discovered that the moths had eaten the entire crotch of the pants away.I'd be devastated if that happened to my textiles or costume efforts. Many thanks, Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 06:40:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02215 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:40:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Bg2i1002527; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Bg1CQ005793; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07BfiCQ005699 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:41:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-112-231.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.112.231]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOR63382; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:42:29 GMT Message-ID: <06ab01c2b641$b3773a20$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <9B8B7908-223A-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Textile & garb advice needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:41:20 -0000 Status: RO Cederwood & Rosemary are traditional moth repellants I also combine with lavender, but you might prefer to leave that out. Rodants I can't help you with I'm afraid Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 06:48:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02265 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:48:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Bo2i1002744; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Bo1CQ007247; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h07BnZCQ007185 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:49:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107114935.39298.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:49:35 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic blog? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E1A4AB9.D31AB30D@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:49:35 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > They did a good bit on this same thing on NPR-Sunday, > yesterday....Really a nifty idea. IIRC, the gentleman being interviewed > said he figured it'd be a good way to make the diaries more accessible, > since most people would find reading all six volumes a bit...daunting. > --sue My edition has 11 volumes: nine volumes of text and footnotes (with an introduction of 120 pages in Volume I), a tenth volume of commentary (The Companion) and an eleventh volume of Index. Edited by Robert Latham and William Matthews. Highly recommendable edition. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 06:52:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02298 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:52:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Bs1i1002861; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Bs1CQ007998; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07BruCQ007963 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:53:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.8.246]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030107115353.MNTU15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:53:53 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <740D0B84-223E-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:49:25 +0000 Status: RO You know I'm soooooo glad to read this post - you've no idea!!! As a self taught sewer and embroiderer who has done so for more than 3/4's of my life,I've taken my efforts very seriously - even the flops. It wasn't until last year that I broke down and did a conventional pattern cutting course and began feeling a bit more 'respectable' from a credential perspective.And I still get narked when my research is considered micky-mouse because I don't belong to a Faculty any more or have a string of letters after my name. On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 01:52 am, Chris Laning wrote: > > I think this tendency is probably THE major factor that I see > discouraging beginners in our needleworkers' guild. I can't tell you > how many people bring things to our "show and tell" and the first words > out of their mouths are, "I know this isn't very authentic, but...." in > tones ranging from the mildly apologetic to the seriously guilty and > ashamed. Any and all efforts should be approved and applauded in my humble opinion. > > Having not a lot of self-confidence to begin with, a lot of them seem > to be afraid to try a new project or technique, for fear that someone > will "pounce" upon them for anything they do "wrong" (i.e. less > authentically) and make them look "bad" in front of others. Unfortunately,as an observer I've run into a few senarios where the respected authority approached on the specific area seemed to delight in destroying the other person's shy efforts.The only time I ever approached someone to critic my efforts,the garment in question was turned over to a big-wig who didn't have a clue about the subject/period/techniques of the era and rattled on criticism after criticism and left me livid.It wasn't until a good while after that,that I realised this so called Specialist didn't have a clue about what she was judging,was approaching it from a Victorian couture angle.She knew nothing about 16thC Indian and Asian fashions or techniques. > > (In reality, of course, authenticity has no moral or "right or wrong" > attached to it -- except in the very limited sense that if you have set > it as your goal, or if it's a goal of the organization you belong to, > meeting it is "good" and not meeting it isn't. But really, it just is > not worth the kind of angst and agony that I see all too often being > devoted to it.) Too true!!! > > I think this kind of attitude of having to be "right" in order to be > seen as a good person (:-/) is also behind a lot of fervent attempts to > "document" materials and techniques that are clearly not typical or > available -- we recently went through a discussion on the H-Needlework > list about cotton in 16th-century England, and I think it is because > someone was trying to document that the cotton embroidery floss in her > project "could have been" used in that period. (The consensus was, BTW, > that this was highly unlikely -- although cotton cloth and stuffing > were not unknown.) Yes but practical considerations must be taken - not everyone can afford to start with the most luxe and expensive tools.And I certainly didn't but that no way impaired my 'learning' process and still doesn't when I do mock-ups in a cheaper substance before using the final fabric or floss.And considering the fiscal outlay of my shopping trips,I'm damned if I'm messing up a few Thousand Pounds investment on a first time run,if I don't know what exactly is going to happen while I'm working something out. > > I'd much rather see someone in that situation say, "In period they > would have used silk, but I used cotton because it's what I had > available" (or it's what I could afford, or it came in the right > colors, or it has to be machine washable, or whatever the reason was). And I think it behooves us all,who love what we do to nurture those that follow us with gentle and kind advice,help,support,knowledge and experiences. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 07:07:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02335 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:07:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07C91i1003432; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07C90CQ010933; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (mta3-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07C8SCQ010804 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.8.246]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030107120826.MXZA15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:08:26 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <06ab01c2b641$b3773a20$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Message-Id: <7C763149-2240-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Subject: [h-cost] Cederwood and Rosemary? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:03:59 +0000 Status: RO Thanks a ton Melanie!! On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 11:41 am, Melanie Wilson wrote: > Cederwood As in those cederwood balls I saw in the USA? > & Rosemary are traditional moth repellants I also combine with > lavender, As in dried herbs? Lavendar I've got - some dried and some still growing outside. > but you might prefer to leave that out. As I like the smell of them all thats fine by me.We're talking sort of sachets of the stuff right.(Something else to do before I'm packed up - aaaaarrrggghhh.Culpepper must have sachets for sale.) > > Rodants I can't help you with I'm afraid Still many many thanks for the tip. Marcus. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 07:33:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02386 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:33:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07CZ2i1004061; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07CZ1CQ016474; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07CYgCQ016381 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-126-210.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.126.210]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOR68929; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:35:41 GMT Message-ID: <06ee01c2b649$22532f60$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <7C763149-2240-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cederwood and Rosemary? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:34:14 -0000 Status: RO >As in those cederwood balls I saw in the USA? Yes probably are you in England then ? I've seen them for sale in a catalogue here... Lakeland maybe the cookware people they have a website > & Rosemary are traditional moth repellants I also combine with > lavender, >As in dried herbs? Lavendar I've got - some dried and some still growing outside. Yes dried I used a big pillow per chest say 6x6 inches >As I like the smell of them all thats fine by me.We're talking sort of sachets of the stuff right.(Something else to do before I'm packed up - Yes Don't go to the expensive small suppliers if in England try Herbal Apocathry 0116 2602 690 They are just down the road from he so I don't have their website sorry (if they have one!) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 07:42:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02423 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:42:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Ci1i1004309; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Ci0CQ018438; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h07Ch0CQ018233 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:43:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107124300.69411.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:43:00 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Citing a source for a translation To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:43:00 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Colleen, I quite like this one: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/cite.html A Brief Citation Guide for Internet Sources in History and the Humanities Nicole --- Colleen McDonald wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I recently did a translation of the relevant section of Levi-Pisetzky's > _Storia del Costume in Italia_ and I was wondering if I need to cite the > online site that I used to help with the translation for my documentation. > > I'm using the MLA format and I couldn't find anything specifically relating > to this in my handbook. > > For the information that I used from my translation, I'm referring back to > Levi-Pisetzky. > > Thanks! > > Colleen > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 07:42:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02428 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:42:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Ci6i1004317; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Ci6CQ018464; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ChoCQ018387 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-126-210.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.126.210]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOR69815; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:44:43 GMT Message-ID: <071b01c2b64a$65583570$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <7C763149-2240-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cederwood and Rosemary? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:43:34 -0000 Status: RO Here we go for the balls http://www.lakelandlimited.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/GBP/ DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=rv-rNxOSEvodLi2IZDSgMrtSkM0_LwZpFTk=?Pro ductID=fWPCy5OSe0cAAADoMuWqiEz7 ALSO And they are on special offer currently http://www.lakelandlimited.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/GBP/ DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=rv-rNxOSEvodLi2IZDSgMrtSkM0_LwZpFTk=?Pro ductID=2ajCy5OS9q0AAADoquuqiEz7 Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 07:47:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02435 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:47:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Cn1i1004440; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Cn0CQ019496; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07CmfCQ019430 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-126-210.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.126.210]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOR70164; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:48:42 GMT Message-ID: <072201c2b64a$f3983970$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <7C763149-2240-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cederwood and Rosemary? & Peppermint MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:46:42 -0000 Status: RO Peppermint repells rodents so sayeth my book of herbs :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 07:48:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02439 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:48:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Co1i1004465; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Co1CQ019721; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Cn9CQ019533 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:49:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-126-210.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.126.210]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOR70281; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:49:57 GMT Message-ID: <072701c2b64b$20858960$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <7C763149-2240-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> <071b01c2b64a$65583570$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cederwood and Rosemary? Tansey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:48:48 -0000 Status: RO Tansey also for the rodent, but handle with care, it is not as safe for humans as the others Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 07:50:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02450 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:50:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Cq1i1004523; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Cq0CQ020115; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h07Cp4CQ019930 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:51:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107125104.14254.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:51:04 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:51:04 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Heather Rose Jones > And others point out that _all_ language changes over time. There's > no logical reason to expect that speakers in some location, even a > culturally isolated one, would speak in a frozen time-warp. > Furthermore, I heartily advise against using any kind of existing dialect as a model to learn from 'what it would have been like'. I studied Old English, Middle English, and Early Modern English and while my Prof always cautioned us that particularly with Old English "if we were to meet an Anglo-Saxon they would probably just stare at us because of our weird pronunciation" - it being academic guesswork, when it comes down to it - he never ever ventured out to mention that anywhere we could hear English being spoken similar to an archaic form. For exactly the reason that Heather mentioned, and I rather sit down and get grey hair over text analyses and pronunciation pains but being able to justify _why_ I believe such and such was pronounced so and so than just because of geographical isolation of modern day people. Then again *siiiiiiigh* I wasn't able to continue with historical linguistics in a money-earning post-graduate working-way. Blasted money! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 07:55:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02469 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:55:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Cv1i1004723; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Cv0CQ021120; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h07CuoCQ021044 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:56:50 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107125650.70846.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:56:50 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cederwood and Rosemary? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <06ee01c2b649$22532f60$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:56:50 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > >As in those cederwood balls I saw in the USA? > > Yes probably are you in England then ? I've seen them for sale in a > catalogue here... Lakeland maybe the cookware people they have a website Oh yes Lakeland, absolutely love them. They also have cedarwood rings that can be put onto clothes hangers. http://www.lakelandlimited.co.uk > Yes dried I used a big pillow per chest say 6x6 inches Same here, and occasionally squeeze the lavender pillow if you can get to the chests. refreshens the lavender smell. > Yes Don't go to the expensive small suppliers if in England try Herbal > Apocathry 0116 2602 690 They are just down the road from he so I don't have > their website sorry (if they have one!) I got a kilogramme of lavender for little money from solstuff, you can order on the web site (it's always good to have several suppliers at hand :-) http://www.solstuf.co.uk/ Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 08:59:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02618 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:59:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E14i1006704; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E10CQ006567; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E00CQ006249 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.106] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id ABC74600242; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 08:53:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c2b655$7f945c60$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <9B8B7908-223A-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Textile & garb advice needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:03:03 -0500 Status: RO I was invited to tour an old house that was being cleared for dispersal and demolition that had a cedar room for clothing but the rest of the textiles were stored in trunks that were liberally laced with whole cloves. I can attest to the fact that there was no evidence of moths or other closet pests. But then, the market price for the spice was certainly cheaper then than now. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcus findlay-arthur" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 7:21 AM Subject: [h-cost] OT:Textile & garb advice needed > I'm doing another International move at the end of the month.My concern > is for my textiles and various pieces of garb & costumes that will have > to be stored with the Moving Co. from the 15th of January - between > addresses.Due to insurance stipulations,I'm only allowed to pack my most > valuable/historic fabrics myself,everything else has to be done by the > Movers.So far its looks as if my goods and chattels will be in storage > some eight weeks. > > Does anyone on the List have any suggestions and advice as to what I can > use as moth and rodent deterrents to slip into the crates and > 'wardrobes' provided,which will protect my stuff?(I'm not keen on using > the conventional mothballs since I don't want the textiles to reek > forever after when I get them back.But can't think of anything right at > the mo' myself.) > > I'm rather twitched about this issue since I had need to wear my best > suit just before 'Xmas and discovered that the moths had eaten the > entire crotch of the pants away.I'd be devastated if that happened to my > textiles or costume efforts. > > Many thanks, > > Marcus. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:01:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02643 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:01:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E32i1006812; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E31CQ007104; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E2pCQ007045 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:02:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a227.in-tch.com [66.62.107.27]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h07DjtP29886 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:45:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1ADD70.5974141F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: cotton damask/brocade (was Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad References: <001401c2b5fa$f9299aa0$1a0677d8@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20030107015718.00d70a50@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 07:00:16 -0700 Status: RO Can I *hate* you for that comment, Kayta? After I get the drool out of my keyboard, of course? We have two Hancocks in the entire d@mned state of MT--the nearest is 4? hours away, over a couple of nasty passes. And a Hancocks *warehouse*? ooooh, baby....I could only wish! Every once in a rare, rare while, I find some appropriate cotton-based brocades in the flatfolds at JoAnn's (it's either that or Walmart, which I don't patronize), but that's more of a rare fluke than anything.... --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >I > >can't find pure cotton brocade, let alone with a > >suitable pattern, and even if I could I wouldn't be > >able to afford it, let alone silk. > > Try upholstery and drapery places. That's where I get all my cotton damask > in Ren. patterns. I like the Hancock Fabric Warehouse upholstery flat-fold > tables, and I routinely go to several in my area if I am in the market for > this. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:06:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02659 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:06:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E82i1007008; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E81CQ008428; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E7KCQ008247 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-003-137.jps.net ([216.119.3.137] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VuNz-0000Mc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 06:07:20 -0800 Message-ID: <005001c2b657$1f4ac900$890377d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030107125104.14254.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:14:40 -0800 Status: RO I think this question and suggestion, using Appalachians or some other area as a model for Elizabethan English comes from those who need "something" to imitate and for a performance by next week or month. Actors are not in the academic position of leaving what is truely unknown to the unknown, they have to deliver something. For someone who is in this situation what would you suggest? Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 4:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder > --- Heather Rose Jones > > And others point out that _all_ language changes over time. There's > > no logical reason to expect that speakers in some location, even a > > culturally isolated one, would speak in a frozen time-warp. > > > Furthermore, I heartily advise against using any kind of existing dialect as a > model to learn from 'what it would have been like'. I studied Old English, > Middle English, and Early Modern English and while my Prof always cautioned us > that particularly with Old English "if we were to meet an Anglo-Saxon they > would probably just stare at us because of our weird pronunciation" - it being > academic guesswork, when it comes down to it - he never ever ventured out to > mention that anywhere we could hear English being spoken similar to an archaic > form. For exactly the reason that Heather mentioned, and I rather sit down and > get grey hair over text analyses and pronunciation pains but being able to > justify _why_ I believe such and such was pronounced so and so than just > because of geographical isolation of modern day people. > > Then again *siiiiiiigh* I wasn't able to continue with historical linguistics > in a money-earning post-graduate working-way. Blasted money! > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:06:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02663 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:06:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E8Gi1007032; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E8GCQ008508; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07E7gCQ008335 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AF2E77FE010C; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 08:07:42 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AF2CDC4011E; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 08:07:40 -0600 Message-ID: <003901c2b656$345c44a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] A Book of Interest Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:08:07 -0500 Status: RO I haven't seen this book before but I thought some of you might be interested. It is at abebooks.com http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=61178071 Hughes, Talbot Dress Design an account of Costume for artists & dressmakers Pitman 1920 reprint Good hard cover name ffl corners bumped edge wear cover soiled very good reading reference copy Bookseller Inventory #110396 Price: US$ 25.00 Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:13:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02690 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:13:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EF3i1007317; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EF2CQ010636; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EEkCQ010550 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:14:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a227.in-tch.com [66.62.107.27]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h07DwJP03504 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 06:58:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1AE04D.4666747F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historic blog? References: <20030107114935.39298.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 07:12:29 -0700 Status: RO 11 volumes? Dang! That would require a whole shelf, all of its own! I don't recall ever having to read Pepys in school when I was getting my degree in English. Of 17th c. stuff, poetry, yes, which I just loved, and an eternity of John Milton (whom I absolutely loathe and despise), and maybe a play or two, but not much in prose. I just *may* have to visit my local library.... --sue, biblio- and fabric-phile ;-) N Kipar wrote: > > --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > They did a good bit on this > same thing on NPR-Sunday, > > yesterday....Really a nifty idea. IIRC, the gentleman being interviewed > > said he figured it'd be a good way to make the diaries more accessible, > > since most people would find reading all six volumes a bit...daunting. > > --sue > > My edition has 11 volumes: nine volumes of text and footnotes (with an > introduction of 120 pages in Volume I), a tenth volume of commentary (The > Companion) and an eleventh volume of Index. Edited by Robert Latham and William > Matthews. Highly recommendable edition. > > Nicole > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:27:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02720 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:27:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ET2i1007971; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ET0CQ014828; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EScCQ014718 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a227.in-tch.com [66.62.107.27]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h07ECCP07589 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:12:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1AE38E.E1FD3EB2@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cederwood and Rosemary? References: <20030107125650.70846.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 07:26:22 -0700 Status: RO Nicole Kipar, you are a *horrible* person I love lavender anything, and now there's this *website*! Oooooh, the pain in my wallet! --sue N Kipar wrote: > > I got a kilogramme of lavender for little money from solstuff, you can order on > the web site (it's always good to have several suppliers at hand :-) > > http://www.solstuf.co.uk/ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:29:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02741 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:29:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EV1i1008078; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EV1CQ015464; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h07EUsCQ015428 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:30:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107143054.74773.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:30:54 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <005001c2b657$1f4ac900$890377d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:30:54 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > I think this question and suggestion, using Appalachians or some other area > as a model for Elizabethan English comes from those who need "something" to > imitate and for a performance by next week or month. Actors are not in the > academic position of leaving what is truely unknown to the unknown, they > have to deliver something. For someone who is in this situation what would > you suggest? Yikes! Lisa I am sorry, but I am out of my depths trying to answer this question. I really don't know, unless there are tapes available? I remember that at Hull University tapes for Old English were recommended, and I am sure this must exist as well for Early Modern English. That might be the way to go? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:37:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02768 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:37:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Ed2i1008447; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Ed0CQ018261; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EcRCQ018061 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:38:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-114-212.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.114.212]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOR80024; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:39:25 GMT Message-ID: <07d701c2b65a$6b52de20$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030107143054.74773.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:38:16 -0000 Status: RO Are there any accent tapes you can use ? Or the BBC did a collection of English dialects for the millenium try www.bbc.co.uk or the British library if my memory serves Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:38:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02772 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:38:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EdIi1008477; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EdHCQ018383; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:39:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EcdCS018142 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:38:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.189]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8C00MJEM0D9Y@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 06:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cederwood and Rosemary? In-reply-to: <7C763149-2240-11D7-B1FA-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107045612.05109840@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <06ab01c2b641$b3773a20$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 04:58:55 -0800 Status: RO >>Cederwood > >As in those cederwood balls I saw in the USA? Pet stores sometimes have bags of cedar shavings to be used for bedding for caged things like rabbits and mice. That, in an old ruined nylon stocking, would be your cheapest. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:38:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02776 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:38:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EdDi1008460; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EdCCQ018355; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:39:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07EcdCQ018142 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:38:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.189]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8C00MJEM0D9Y@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 06:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: and here we go again, was Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad In-reply-to: <20030107105906.53749.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107044645.0515fa90@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20030107015026.00d71db0@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 04:53:03 -0800 Status: RO >I love costumes. >Authentic, not authentic, fantasy, historical, I don't give a doodah! The only >thing that makes me mad is when someone _claims_ they are very authentic but >use polyester for example. Makes sense? Otherwise, let's just all enjoy >historical costumes... So these days I tell people I do SCA Renaissance, Ren. Faire Renaissance, Fantasy Renaissance, Theatrical Renaissance, and Authentic Renaissance, and I know the difference. It makes newbies relax, and costumers laugh. >Okay, I guess my fever is still too high and the flu still too bad but I just >felt that I had to say it. *sneefs* My sympathy on the *sneefs* - I had them for at least a week. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:47:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02801 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:47:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Em3i1009002; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Em1CQ021445; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07El1CQ021050 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12402 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:58:04 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Book of Interest In-Reply-To: <003901c2b656$345c44a0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:58:04 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Penny Ladnier wrote: > http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=61178071 > Hughes, Talbot > Dress Design an account of Costume for artists & dressmakers > Pitman 1920 reprint Good hard cover name ffl corners bumped edge wear cover > soiled very good reading reference copy > Bookseller Inventory #110396 > Price: US$ 25.00 I use an image from this book in a lecture tracking the development of misintrpretations of medieval costume. The image I have is two pages of Hughes' sketches of short "jackets" from the 14th century that are actually the author's catastrophic misinterpretation of sideless surcotes. (He mistakenly read the fur plackets and fur-trimmed side openings of the surcote as a different kind of overlayer -- short rounded jackets edged with fur and buttoned up the front. I call it a "depth perception problem" in the lecture.) I don't know about the rest of the book, so maybe other periods are better, but that should provide sufficient warning against anyone looking to it as a resource for medieval. It's good for a laugh, though. If I had a spare $25, I'd pick it up for my Bad Costume Book shelf. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 09:52:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02826 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:52:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Es2i1009343; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Es0CQ023575; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07ErqCQ023527 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:53:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.189]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8C00MORMPQ9X@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 06:53:51 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: cotton damask/brocade (was Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad In-reply-to: <3E1ADD70.5974141F@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107064728.00d5ea70@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <001401c2b5fa$f9299aa0$1a0677d8@pavilion> <4.3.1.2.20030107015718.00d70a50@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 06:51:38 -0800 Status: RO Sue Clemenger writes, in a message sent 07:00 AM 1/7/03 -0700: >Can I *hate* you for that comment, Kayta? After I get the drool out of >my keyboard, of course? >We have two Hancocks in the entire d@mned state of MT--the nearest is 4? >hours away, over a couple of nasty passes. And a Hancocks *warehouse*? >ooooh, baby....I could only wish! Don't hate me too bad. The full name of the place is Hancock Fabric Warehouse, but none of them are really warehouses. And since I'm looking in the drapery flat-fold section, usually the biggest pieces I can get will make sleeves. Sometimes I can get a skirt-size piece. On occasion I have found bigger pieces, and I grabbed them. I get linen there too, sometimes. I have fabric stores plural, but you have the Rocky Mountains, and all that sky, and the Montana State Historical Society, and the town my great grandfather was postmaster of, and the ranch my mother's family lived on, any one of which is way more than 4 hours away from where I live. But you could visit me sometime, and we could go shopping. >Every once in a rare, rare while, I find some appropriate cotton-based >brocades in the flatfolds at JoAnn's (it's either that or Walmart, which >I don't patronize), but that's more of a rare fluke than anything.... >--sue > >Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > >I > > >can't find pure cotton brocade, let alone with a > > >suitable pattern, and even if I could I wouldn't be > > >able to afford it, let alone silk. > > > > Try upholstery and drapery places. That's where I get all my cotton damask > > in Ren. patterns. I like the Hancock Fabric Warehouse upholstery flat-fold > > tables, and I routinely go to several in my area if I am in the market for > > this. > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 10:54:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03051 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Fu2i1013797; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Fu1Zu020592; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07FtUZu020332 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:55:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200301071555.h07FtUZu020332@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc55 (rwcrwbc55.attbi.com[204.127.198.44]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <200301071555240520021i3oe>; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:55:24 +0000 Received: from [205.225.207.97] by rwcrwbc55; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 15:55:24 +0000 From: mabse@attbi.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cederwood and Rosemary? X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: bWFic2VAYXR0YmkuY29t Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 15:55:24 +0000 Status: RO I would also include some silica dessicant. I have a friend who stored books for a while and the dessicant kept them from getting mold on them or getting that moldy smell that things in storage get. good luck maryann > Thanks a ton Melanie!! > > On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 11:41 am, Melanie Wilson wrote: > > > Cederwood > > As in those cederwood balls I saw in the USA? > > > & Rosemary are traditional moth repellants I also combine with > > lavender, > > As in dried herbs? > Lavendar I've got - some dried and some still growing outside. > > > but you might prefer to leave that out. > > As I like the smell of them all thats fine by me.We're talking sort of > sachets of the stuff right.(Something else to do before I'm packed up - > aaaaarrrggghhh.Culpepper must have sachets for sale.) > > > > Rodants I can't help you with I'm afraid > > Still many many thanks for the tip. > > Marcus. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 11:05:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03099 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:05:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07G72i1014872; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07G71Zu026422; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe47.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07G63Zu025838 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:05:58 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030106224222.036d9010@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2003 16:05:58.0739 (UTC) FILETIME=[AABF7A30:01C2B666] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:09:01 -0500 Status: RO Some of those I still happily wear. I guess the difference is in that I have the choice of wearing them or not, even if they're in fashion. I think that was not really a question of choice before. > As far as impractical clothing of our times: > --the previously-mentioned "sizzler" skirts which were so short (shorter > than micro-minis) that you needed matching/attached bikini panties under > them for modesty; > --hot pants and hot-pant-legged jumpsuits (one of which nearly caused me a > case of frostbite when the school's Late Bus never showed up); > --fish-net stockings; > --tank tops; > --nylon hosiery (IMNSHO the bane of almost every woman's professional > existence!); > --high-heeled shoes; > --too-tiny-for-a-tube-of-lipstick handbags; > --the super-low-rise, over-sized, > deliberately-falling-off-your-pelvis-and-exposing-your-underpants jeans > some of the youth of the '90's wore all the time; > --ladies' clothes *without* *pockets*... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 11:38:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03401 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:38:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Ge2i1018043; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Ge0Zu014533; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07GdAZu014068 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <20030107163905051001sk74e>; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:39:05 +0000 Message-ID: <022201c2b66b$de99c310$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030106224222.036d9010@mail.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:39:04 -0600 Status: RO And we are nothing if not adventurous for wearing them. :) Now that I have lost a significant amount of weight I can wear most of these again. But I am not quite ready for the smaller than micro mini's yet......yet I said! I love my new body!!!! Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements > Some of those I still happily wear. I guess the difference is in that I have > the choice of wearing them or not, even if they're in fashion. I think that > was not really a question of choice before. > > > As far as impractical clothing of our times: > > --the previously-mentioned "sizzler" skirts which were so short (shorter > > than micro-minis) that you needed matching/attached bikini panties under > > them for modesty; > > --hot pants and hot-pant-legged jumpsuits (one of which nearly caused me a > > case of frostbite when the school's Late Bus never showed up); > > --fish-net stockings; > > --tank tops; > > --nylon hosiery (IMNSHO the bane of almost every woman's professional > > existence!); > > --high-heeled shoes; > > --too-tiny-for-a-tube-of-lipstick handbags; > > --the super-low-rise, over-sized, > > deliberately-falling-off-your-pelvis-and-exposing-your-underpants jeans > > some of the youth of the '90's wore all the time; > > --ladies' clothes *without* *pockets*... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 12:21:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03625 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:21:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07HN3i1022132; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07HN1Zu010261; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m8.bos.untd.com (m8.bos.untd.com [64.136.24.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h07HMfZu009976 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Or8uQ9AEaRYlBMcefm+KStM="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMXHPJCW; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:22:25 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT:Textile & garb advice needed Message-ID: <20030107.092050.2004.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6,8-20 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:36:45 -0800 Status: RO Try using cedar shavings and stuffing them in gauze bags with your stuff. You can get large bags of shavings at pet stores for cheap, and it's every bit as aromatic as the pricier stuff found elsewhere. The gauze will let the cedar "breathe." Arlys On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:21:54 +0000 marcus findlay-arthur writes: > I'm doing another International move at the end of the month.My > concern > is for my textiles and various pieces of garb & costumes that will > have > to be stored with the Moving Co. from the 15th of January - between > addresses.Due to insurance stipulations,I'm only allowed to pack my > most > valuable/historic fabrics myself,everything else has to be done by > the > Movers.So far its looks as if my goods and chattels will be in > storage > some eight weeks. ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 12:37:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03720 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:37:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Hc7i1023478; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:38:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Hc0Zu018836; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Hb5Zu018296 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h07Hb411026383 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:37:04 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:37:04 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Speaking of panty hose... The 'dress code' for women in my office (and it's an office of mostly women, including the VP of the department) tends to be pants (not jeans, except on Fridays or snow days) and a knitted top (turtleneck, shell, whatever), sometimes worn with a jacket or sweater. I should note that this isn't an 'official' dress code, it's just what everyone wears. I work at a good-sized non-profit in Washington, DC. My sister, who also works for a nonprofit, says that it's pretty similar where she works, and she wears a pant suit for interviews. Is this pretty much standard office wear now? Are there any jobs that require women to wear skirts anymore? I don't really have a sense of what's current elsewhere. (My other friends tend to be tech types, and can get away with wearing jeans and t-shirts to work every day.) -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 13:53:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04106 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:53:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07It4i1000898; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07It1Zu003850; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07IsVZu003518 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:54:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003010718542600200nrj2fe>; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:54:26 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107102248.00a89050@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 10:52:52 -0800 Status: RO there have been a lot of really unrelated topics lately and I would like to connect some of these dots (discussions) into a matrix and propose a hypothesis to run by those of you who actually do know something. I would like to point out that I have the advantage of coming from a point of total ignorance. I look at the topic on the inexplicable aspects of modern dress, connect that with the discussion of populations who wear nonrepresentational clothing (restrictive dress codes). that dot goes to the discussion on spinning and weaving styles of the medieval, which can be connected to the topic of seam styles and when they developed, which then connects to the topic of dyes and what was dyed, when and how. My favorite dot is the one about how what the sheep eat affect their wool. The last two threads for me are the one about how spinning and weaving were already done by guilds in the medieval, and the silly Elizabethan costume contest from another list. When I put this matrix together, it makes me wonder... In a medieval community, you would have had a reasonably isolated population, the higher your social status the less your isolation, you would have had a group of growers, a group of spinners and dyers, a group of weavers... they would have for the most part served one community. There would be some trade back and forth and some import and export. yes, no? But, and here is the hypothesis from this whole thing, wouldn't independent styles and variations develop enough that you could probably tell where a person was from based on their dress. Not you, but could a medieval woman from say Kent, look at a medieval woman from the Cotswalds and know that because of the weave and color of her gown and the particular cut that she was from this other region. I would think that if, in a community, the people running the dying really liked saffron and hated salmon, that everybody in that town would be running around in saffron. same with spinning, if you mastered the z spin and couldn't do the s to save your life, then probably everybody would be wearing z spun garments. And, if the lady of the manor thought that sleeves should be loose, then maybe everybody else's sleeves in that area would be looser than normal. Does this make sense? Do we know if this existed and if it did how much it would be a factor in what people wore? I guess another question I have is how much did the events of the day influence what people wore, beyond if people were better off financially they had better clothing. By this I mean did hems really rise and fall in response to economic conditions? Did the huge population declines brought on by the plague change how people dressed? Did the collapse of serfdom change anything? any answers? thanks, maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 14:02:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04149 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:02:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07J42i1002026; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07J41Zu009085; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21404.mail.yahoo.com (web21404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h07J3fZu008883 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:03:41 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030107190340.92675.qmail@web21404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.148] by web21404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:03:40 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:03:40 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Hmm, in the offices I am associated with, women can wear either pant suits or skirts. We cannot wear casual clothes like jeans, but slacks and sweaters are ok for those not going to meet with clients. I'm one who wears skirts 98% of the time, with jokes on the days that I am seen wearing pants. I'm in a detached office that is slightly more casual, so I can wear some of my garb as well, like GFD's with no tippets or obtrusive decoration, or a walking suit. Men must wear dress shirts and slacks, with ties if they are meeting clients. Sweaters are ok, if neatly fitted ones, not baggy or ultra tight. None of the men have hair beyond their collars, although a couple sport earrings. Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 14:07:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04164 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:07:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07J92i1002492; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07J91Zu011925; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07J80Zu011343 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h07J7x116781 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:07:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030106120321.027289e0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress In-Reply-To: <008901c2b50b$20451060$f22faf40@angelap3a8d978> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_10813812==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:02:19 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_10813812==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Forgive me for playing catch up on old topics, I've just recovered from my Christmas plague - I was like a Micmac Indian with a new blanket. As folks have mentioned, the trick for pulling these dresses off is making the foundation of the dress. I'd add that draping skills and foundation garments; i.e. a either a long line corset with bust cover or period brassiere with a good replica girdle. If you don't have the draping skills now, you will by the time you are done >; ) Teens dresses can be intimidating but once you get the "hand" of them, they are a breeze and often become works of art. If you can scan the picture of the original dress, we can help you more. Another option is find a dress that is close here http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html and go from there. As an interesting note, click on the Poiret dress in the 1910 category then drill down using the zoom feature onto the hemline and notice all the tiny dressmakers tacks used on the outer fabric which is flat lined with a light cotton voile to stabilize the skirt bottom. There is one pattern from Promenade but I haven't made that one up yet. Carolynn reviewed it on the GBACG site http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/promenade.htm. Existing patterns from the originals are easy to come by (see http://www.vpll.org/ or www.pastpatterns.com). Laughing Moon has one as well as Sense and Sensibility though both need a lot of re-configuring to get them to drape like the originals. I love Jennie's pattern and often use it as a pattern sloper for the outer bodice and skirts. Gwyn At 02:38 PM 1/5/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Lynoure > >You might want to check out a line by Promenade Patterns. Harper House >carries them at http://www.longago.com/edward.html . I have not seen the >picture you wish to recreate, as I cannot locate my book, but they have two >existing patterns for gowns from the teens and one may suit you, or may be >close enough to alter to your tastes. There are also patterns from this era >at www.pastpatterns.com, but they are mostly day wear. > >angela >+++++ >Angela F. Lazear >Cabbage Rose Costumes >http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com >Theatrical Costume Design >"So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not >I have used my credit." >King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:51 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress > > > I'm about to start making a dress that makes me very nervous, because it's > > from an era I'm not very familiar with and because it's going to be my > > wedding dress. It's going to be a copy of the dress on pages 377 to 380 of > > Costume in Detail 1730-1930, but I'm considering using light purple colour > > instead of light blue. > > > > Could somebody give me hints about dressmaking or pattern making of that > > era? E.g. does a "close enough" pattern already exist? > > > > -- > > Lynoure Rajamaki > > lynoure@tuug.fi Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_10813812==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Forgive me for playing catch up on old topics, I've just recovered from my Christmas plague  - I was like a Micmac Indian with a new blanket.

As folks have mentioned, the trick for pulling these dresses off is making the foundation of the dress. I'd add that draping skills and foundation garments; i.e. a either a long line corset with bust cover or period brassiere with a good replica girdle. If you don't have the draping skills now, you will by the time you are done >; ) Teens dresses can be intimidating but once you get the "hand" of them, they are a breeze and often become works of art.

If you can scan the picture of the original dress,  we can help you more. Another option is find a dress that is close here http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html and go from there. As an interesting note, click on the Poiret dress in the 1910 category then drill down using the zoom feature onto the hemline and notice all the tiny dressmakers tacks used on the   outer fabric which is flat lined with a light cotton voile to stabilize the skirt bottom.

There is one pattern from Promenade but I haven't made that one up yet. Carolynn reviewed it on the GBACG site http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/promenade.htm.
Existing patterns from the originals are easy to come by (see http://www.vpll.org/ or www.pastpatterns.com). Laughing Moon has one as well as Sense and Sensibility though both need a lot of re-configuring to get them to drape like the originals. I love Jennie's pattern and often use it as a pattern sloper for the outer bodice and skirts.

Gwyn

At 02:38 PM 1/5/2003 -0800, you wrote:
Lynoure

You might want to check out a line by Promenade Patterns.  Harper House
carries them at http://www.longago.com/edward.html .  I have not seen the
picture you wish to recreate, as I cannot locate my book, but they have two
existing patterns for gowns from the teens and one may suit you, or may be
close enough to alter to your tastes.  There are also patterns from this era
at www.pastpatterns.com, but they are mostly day wear.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design
"So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not
I have used my credit."
King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" <lynoure@tuug.fi>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:51 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress

> I'm about to start making a dress that makes me very nervous, because it's
> from an era I'm not very familiar with and because it's going to be my
> wedding dress. It's going to be a copy of the dress on pages 377 to 380 of
> Costume in Detail 1730-1930, but I'm considering using light purple colour
> instead of light blue.
>
> Could somebody give me hints about dressmaking or pattern making of that
> era? E.g. does a "close enough" pattern already exist?
>
> --
> Lynoure Rajamaki
> lynoure@tuug.fi

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_10813812==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 14:19:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04209 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:19:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07JK4i1003406; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07JK3Zu018335; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07JJSZu017973 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:19:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <20030107191923052006qohge>; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:19:23 +0000 Message-ID: <039c01c2b682$43897200$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <20030107190340.92675.qmail@web21404.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:21:54 -0600 Status: RO The last two office jobs I had you could not wear leggings or exercise wear as a top or bottom. Jeans were only on days that were assigned as so and at one office we could wear shorts on days that we had team outings on. The last office there was a uniform that was color specific, not clothing specific but I was a contractor so I was bound by the agency's dress code. I wore, by choice, dresses. The code was office dressy, nice clean business attire. The office uniform was ugly in my opinion, really ugly, felt like I was in a blockbuster from 15 years ago. Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements > > Hmm, in the offices I am associated with, women can > wear either pant suits or skirts. We cannot wear > casual clothes like jeans, but slacks and sweaters are > ok for those not going to meet with clients. I'm one > who wears skirts 98% of the time, with jokes on the > days that I am seen wearing pants. I'm in a detached > office that is slightly more casual, so I can wear > some of my garb as well, like GFD's with no tippets or > obtrusive decoration, or a walking suit. > > Men must wear dress shirts and slacks, with ties if > they are meeting clients. Sweaters are ok, if neatly > fitted ones, not baggy or ultra tight. None of the > men have hair beyond their collars, although a couple > sport earrings. > > Angharat > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 14:50:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04396 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:50:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Jq5i1005953; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:52:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Jq4aC006211; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07JpkaC005946 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:51:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030107195141.MFCO23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:51:41 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out001.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:51:41 -0600 Message-Id: <20030107195141.MFCO23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:51:41 -0500 Status: RO > > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > Date: 2003/01/07 Tue AM 09:14:40 EST > To: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation > > I think this question and suggestion, using Appalachians or some other area > as a model for Elizabethan English comes from those who need "something" to > imitate and for a performance by next week or month. Actors are not in the > academic position of leaving what is truely unknown to the unknown, they > have to deliver something. For someone who is in this situation what would > you suggest? > > Lisa I would recommend doing what Elizabethan actors probably did most of the time. Use your own accent. Rarely is the accent important to the show, though when it is it is provided for (and not common elizabethan English) anyway. Shakespeare comical portrayal of welsh comes to mind. ...and yes I have been in this position several times. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 15:05:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04473 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:05:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07K73i1007380; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07K70aC015023; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07K64aC014532 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp213.directcon.net [206.170.184.213]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h07K5Do5019537; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:05:14 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030107120910.00817da0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030106120321.027289e0@blue.ucdavis.edu> References: <008901c2b50b$20451060$f22faf40@angelap3a8d978> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:09:10 -0800 Status: RO At 11:02 AM 01/07/2003 -0800, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > - I was like a Micmac Indian with a new blanket. > Gwyn, shame on you! Now there's coffee all over the screen! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 15:15:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04498 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:15:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KH2i1008726; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KH1aC020986; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KGGaC020602 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:16:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h07KGZ117332.; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:16:35 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:16:15 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Generalls Musick & Players at M.O.L. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h07KGGaC020602 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:15:54 +0000 Status: RO (Blushing) Many thanks for your kind words, Stevie! Our secretary is supposed to be setting up a website for the group; when this materialises, I'll let everyone have the address. You can see a picture of the dancers at the event at http://www.hants.gov.uk/basdance/index3.html To Sue who asked about my outfit - The bodice is a simplified version of the 1630s one in the V&A (see Nicole's website www.kipar.org under Costume - Surviving garments) made in a terracotta-coloured glazed cotton. The skirt is blue brocade with a small pattern. To hide my short hair I wear a semi-opaque black veil. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 15:18:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04510 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:18:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KK0i1008983; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KK0aC022639; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KJPaC022263 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:19:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.113] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AB56D8801B6; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:32:38 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c2b684$ec0fec40$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <20030107143054.74773.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:42:31 -0500 Status: RO Lisa as a starter, you might contact Plimouth Plantation, Plymouth, Ma. and ask if their research material used for the living history site would be available...at least their resources. They 'do' 1603-1627 and are renowned for their success in preparing their actors for the Life. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation > --- Lisa Sinervo wrote: > I think this question > and suggestion, using Appalachians or some other area > > as a model for Elizabethan English comes from those who need "something" to > > imitate and for a performance by next week or month. Actors are not in the > > academic position of leaving what is truely unknown to the unknown, they > > have to deliver something. For someone who is in this situation what would > > you suggest? > > Yikes! Lisa I am sorry, but I am out of my depths trying to answer this > question. I really don't know, unless there are tapes available? I remember > that at Hull University tapes for Old English were recommended, and I am sure > this must exist as well for Early Modern English. That might be the way to go? > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 15:20:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04541 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:20:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KL1i1009048; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KL0aC023151; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KKWaC022860 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:20:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030107202027.MKVT23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:20:27 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out001.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:20:27 -0600 Message-Id: <20030107202027.MKVT23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:20:27 -0500 Status: RO > > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > Date: 2003/01/06 Mon PM 02:34:57 EST > To: > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable No, but I do portray a characther at one of the "Living History" sites mentioned previously in this thread. Cheers, Ron > Really? Are you a baseball player? > :) > Lisa Sinervo > Threadneedle St. Clothiers > www.ThreadneedleSt.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 10:15 AM > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable > > > > > > > Shorts are only for casual wear. I think breeches for men should come > back > > > in style! That would be loads of fun!!! > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > Hey...I wear breeches to worl almost daily! > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > R.Carnegie@verizon.net > > "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." > > R. Bach > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 15:22:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04553 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:22:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KO2i1009235; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KO0aC024939; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KNNaC024528 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:23:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h07KNh117499.; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:23:43 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:23:23 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] What'd you get for Christmas? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h07KNNaC024528 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:23:01 +0000 Status: RO (Catching up on my mails after an extended Christmas break) I got a book on stumpwork, having promised myself for years that I'd try it some day. As a first attempt, I plan to make a small panel to decorate the box in which I keep my shawm reeds (it's black plastic and doesn't look very period). Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 15:35:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04601 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:35:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KZ5i1010096; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:35:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KZ3aC001411; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KYGaC001018 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18W0RT-00051W-00; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 15:35:19 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 18W0QR-0003pm-00; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 15:34:15 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030107120910.00817da0@pop.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:34:15 -0500 (EST) Status: RO The best starting point I've found for 1910's dresses are the patterns in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion 2". The 1909-10 empire style evening dress, if one is going for a Titanic styled dress and the 1913-14 afternoon dress (has a rather nifty draped skirt). Or even the 1911-12 day dress can be altered to have evening lines. All three of these dresses show patterns for fitted underbodices, in three different styles. I agree with the suggestions that it is all in the foundation. A good lining/underbodice upon which you can drape your cloth is the key to a successful 'teens dress. I have been immersed in the 'teens lately, working on a three volume book on evening dresses 1909-1920, taking the styles from the Gibson Girl to the Flapper. At times I feel I will never finish this book though, with 2 five year olds underfoot and all the colds they are bringing home from kindergarten. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 15:38:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04615 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:38:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KeCi1010509; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:40:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Ke7aC004460; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:40:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07KdQaC004046 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030107203921.MOLU23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:39:21 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Living History-questions to ponder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out001.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:39:21 -0600 Message-Id: <20030107203921.MOLU23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:39:21 -0500 Status: RO > > From: Catherine Olanich Raymond > Date: 2003/01/07 Tue AM 01:06:29 EST > To: h-costume@indra.com, kat@grendal.rain.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder > > On Sunday 05 January 2003 10:23 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > I joined the SCA in 1971, and I was not aware that the SCA considered > > > itself a living history group. I get my living history elsewhere. > > > > It shows up along with Williamsburg, Plimoth, ACL groups and the like > > in the books devoted to Living History. > > Knowing what I do about SCA activities (some of which I have attended even > though I've never been a member), this surprises me somewhat. > This description of the SCA's charter doesn't surprise me. The key terms are, > however, "engage in research" and "present activities and events which > recreate the environment of said era". The SCA does lots of activities which > are components of living history, but the typical SCA event is *not* living > history. (No event that mingles Vikings with Elizabethan courtiers is > "living history" in my books.) > The term "Living History" as I understand it, was created by Jay Andersen in the 1960s. The phrase was meant to explain a method of teaching history, rather than a hobby or method of recreation. Living History is any method or location that seeks to teacgh history by bringing it out of the history books and into life. Most living history sites and organizations are dedicated to a specific time period, but not all. Mystic Seaport is dedicated to all the seafaring history of all of North America. A recent exhibition by that site, teaching about nautical immigration, ends with the Cuban boat refugees. Connor Prairie and Tyron Palace are both set in at least two historic periods. This can be true of organizations as well. The LHA of Richmond Virginia, Past Pleasures of London, and LAHA of Southern California all provide characters and events from a large gamut of periods. Most Living History programs, sites or organizations tend to view the audience (visitors, guests, etc.) as the students, but I am not convincied that an organization that teachs its members as it's main audience can not be described as "Living History" and with that it does not surprise me that some organization ight show up on such lists. A term that may be more applicable is "Experiential Archealogy" though I do not like the term myself. This termed is used to explain the activities of those who practice obsolete crafts or lifestyles so as to better understand them. I like the idea, but do not think Archealogy is really the correct term to use, but it is common usage in the field. In a completly transparent apparent to make this at least slightly ontopic, even Historic Clothing is NOT needed for Living History (though I prefer it). Mystic for instance, because of its huge time period, uses costumes only for a small number of 1st peron interpreters and not most of its staff. Most are dressed in khakis and polo shirts. This is true of there interpreters, maintanance staff and administration! Cheers, Ron Carnegie member of ALHFAM and curiously enough the SCA R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 16:00:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04718 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:00:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07L12i1012368; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07L10aC017114; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07L0FaC016506 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip184.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.184]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h07L0A816751 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:00:11 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder Message-ID: <3E1AAC30.19821.23FFFC96@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E18863B.22646.1B9B641A@localhost> In-reply-to: <200301070106.29784.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 10:30:08 -0800 Status: RO > On Sunday 05 January 2003 10:23 pm, kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > I joined the SCA in 1971, and I was not aware that the SCA > > > considered itself a living history group. I get my living history > > > elsewhere. > > > > It shows up along with Williamsburg, Plimoth, ACL groups and the > > like in the books devoted to Living History. > > Knowing what I do about SCA activities (some of which I have attended > even though I've never been a member), this surprises me somewhat. I have two books about living history groups. One describes what living history is and what it does, and the other is a resource book for finding living history groups and supplies. Both of them list the SCA. However, thre are a lot of people who don't want "living history" to mean anything but sites which do living history. But it is actually "learning by doing" that is a big part of "Living History". > This description of the SCA's charter doesn't surprise me. The key > terms are, however, "engage in research" and "present activities and > events which recreate the environment of said era". The SCA does lots > of activities which are components of living history, but the typical > SCA event is *not* living history. (No event that mingles Vikings > with Elizabethan courtiers is "living history" in my books.) This is one of the "Your mileage may vary" issues. However, if you are "learning by doing" as opposed to just reading it in a book and theorizing, then it is "living history" instead of "book history." It may not be your idea of what a "living history" group or site *should* be, but it is "living history". > > The parts I find most difficult to reconcile is the tolerance for > > the post 1600 Western Europe and all the Oriental and Central > > American personas which are tolerated. > > I have more problems with the time paradoxes than with the cultural > breadth. It was possible (though probably very rare) for an African, > Chinese, or Central Asian alive in 1550 to end up at the court of > Elizabeth Tudor. It is not, and never could have been possible, for > Egil Skallagrimson to have a dinner conversation with Dr. John Dee. One of the SCA historians that I admire teaches that if you are *truly* a medieval person, you wouldn't really know that they came from another time. For all you would know, this could be from someplace you'd heard about and you wouldn't be so rude as to ask them where they were from. If they acted strange or dressed strange, then that was because they were "foreigners." If you look at it that way, then it's a little easier to handle. An acquaintance of mine did Elizabethan. Her husband did Norman France. She used to say that they were Elizabethans but her husband was crazy and would "pretend" to be from the past as part of his delusion. Worked for them. > >However, it is set up as an inclusive > > group (with the hope that people will "grow" into the Western > > Culture part) > > Why? I actually think that the SCA's expansion to include non-Western > European cultures is a good thing. Just because most Western > Europeans, in (SCA) period, were unlikely ever to meet a non-Western > European, does not mean that such creatures did not exist, and > learning about them can enrich our understanding of what Western > European culture was like. Unfortunately, when there are large numbers of people from "outside Europe" participating, the focus generally switches to things which would *not* enrich the understanding of what Western European cultures were like. They become focused on understanding what Oriental culture was like. It's a more major shift in focus than shifting times, from my point of view, because at least a Viking from the 11th C and someone from 16th C Scandinavia have some heritage in common. I think this is one of those "YMMV" issues. > I usually wear my costumes at science fiction conventions (where > nearly anything sartorial goes) or make costumes specifically for live > action roleplaying events (an amazing number of which have been based > on historical events to greater or lesser degrees). But the SCA > certainly supplies an excellent venue for the wearing of costume. However, if you talk to the science fiction crowd, they resent it when historical costumers participate in their costumes. It's all a matter of perspective. And there is a short supply of historical groups. (Where I live you have a choice between the SCA, frontier reenactment groups and the black powder groups where women are not really welcome unless you want to do woodsy stuff.) Occasionally there will be a "Jane Austen tea" or a "Dickins Ball", but those are pretty few and far between. Besides, I don't want to just *wear* my costume. I want to learn more about how it would be done (which *really* doesn't fit into a SF event or the teas/balls.) Shoot, if it weren't for the SCA I'd probably still be doing really smuck level costumes (a la Iris Brookes and other theatrical costume books) and only wearing them for SF or Halloween. There certainly wouldn't have been the mental stimulation to learn more about them, let alone to learn how to do research that has taken me from the level of Brookes and Peacock to doing independent research in London on the extant garments. While the SCA is not the *ideal* living history group, it is still more of a "living history" style of teaching than you'd ever get with SF or other events which really are just costume parties. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 16:09:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04803 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:09:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07LB4i1013428; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07LB2aC024366; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07LAZaC024026 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:10:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h07LAY126410 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:10:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030107125014.029e0ce8@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030107120910.00817da0@pop.directcon.net> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030106120321.027289e0@blue.ucdavis.edu> <008901c2b50b$20451060$f22faf40@angelap3a8d978> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_18169062==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 13:10:48 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_18169062==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I had been a recluse all year. I finally decided to get away from the office and went to Gaskells and blamo! I'd swear someone at the event was practicing biologic warfare. It was the smallest turnout for Gaskell's I'd seen in years - I suspect it was because the germ assassin had been hard at work before I arrived. On the bright side, I lost 7 pounds from the ordeal >; ) I'll go to the next Gaskell's in Feb. and am seriously considering installing some Austin Power's type anti terrorism devices in my bustle. Ha Ha! step on my train will you.... So, are the GSACG doing to do a Day of Morning or another Winchester house night this year? I was so sad that I missed both of those and I'd heard good thing about them, especially the Winchester event. Later tater >; ) Gwyn At 12:09 PM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote: >At 11:02 AM 01/07/2003 -0800, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > - I was like a Micmac Indian with a new blanket. >Gwyn, shame on you! Now there's coffee all over the screen! > >Margo >"One Tough Costumer" Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_18169062==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I had been a recluse all year. I finally decided to get away from the office and went to Gaskells and blamo! I'd swear someone at the event was practicing biologic warfare. It was the smallest turnout for Gaskell's I'd seen in years - I suspect it was because the germ assassin had been hard at work before I arrived. On the bright side,  I lost 7 pounds from the ordeal >; )

I'll go to the next Gaskell's in Feb. and am seriously considering installing some Austin Power's type anti terrorism devices in my bustle. Ha Ha! step on my train will you....

So, are the GSACG doing to do a Day of Morning or another Winchester house night this year? I was so sad that I missed both of those and I'd heard good thing about them, especially the Winchester event.

Later tater >; )

Gwyn

At 12:09 PM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote:

At 11:02 AM 01/07/2003 -0800, Gwyn Carnegie wrote:
>   - I was like a Micmac Indian with a new blanket.
Gwyn, shame on you!  Now there's coffee all over the screen!

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_18169062==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 16:29:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04915 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:28:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07LT1i1015295; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07LT0G6006031; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07LSmG6005907 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:28:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.45]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8D00ERD4Z4ZF@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 13:28:17 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107102248.00a89050@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107131651.00d58a80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103094038.009fa6d0@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 13:19:28 -0800 Status: RO >But, and here is the hypothesis from this whole thing, wouldn't >independent styles and variations develop enough that you could probably >tell where a person was from based on their dress. Not you, but could a >medieval woman from say Kent, look at a medieval woman from the Cotswalds >and know that because of the weave and color of her gown and the >particular cut that she was from this other region. This does seem to have happened in some places in Europe, where people moved around less. You got what later got called 'folk costumes'. But I hope the regional revival 'folk costumes' of the 1800s doesn't mess up that theory. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 16:36:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04933 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:36:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Lc3i1016103; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07Lc0G6011141; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com (gtwy.nap.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.11] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07LbBG6010590 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:37:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from Gallilelo (d60-99-237.try.wideopenwest.com [65.60.237.99]) by pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h07LcY411256 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:38:34 -0600 From: Michelle Plumb To: h-costume@indra.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-Id: Subject: [h-cost] Historic blog? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" X-Mailer: Opera 6.03 build 1107 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:32:54 -0500 Status: RO Okay, has anyone else out there been humming Benny Hill's "Pepys Diary"? I went to rent a ladie's house she handed me the key. She said, "It's to be let as it stands with all that you can see." "And are you to be left with the house?", said I in a saucy tone. She said, "I'm not to be let with the house, I'm to be let alone!" Oh we know it's right. It's in black and white. And it's all written down in his diary! ...gotta stop watching so many Britcoms. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 17:08:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05075 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:08:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07M92i1018900; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07M91G6029215; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07M87G6028605 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip18.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.18]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h07M81827148 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:08:01 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots Message-ID: <3E1ADF91.24570.3B6486@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107102248.00a89050@mail.attbi.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:09:21 -0800 Status: RO > When I put this matrix together, it makes me wonder... In a medieval > community, you would have had a reasonably isolated population, the > higher your social status the less your isolation, you would have had > a group of growers, a group of spinners and dyers, a group of > weavers... they would have for the most part served one community. > There would be some trade back and forth and some import and export. > yes, no? Yes. But with the more isolated, there would be less trade. > But, and here is the hypothesis from this whole thing, wouldn't > independent styles and variations develop enough that you could > probably tell where a person was from based on their dress. Not you, > but could a medieval woman from say Kent, look at a medieval woman > from the Cotswalds and know that because of the weave and color of her > gown and the particular cut that she was from this other region. I > would think that if, in a community, the people running the dying > really liked saffron and hated salmon, that everybody in that town > would be running around in saffron. same with spinning, if you > mastered the z spin and couldn't do the s to save your life, then > probably everybody would be wearing z spun garments. There would be more of the ability to tell where someone is from based on their clothes under those circumstances. We know this from the discussions about clothing of Highland Scotland. Different families had different areas where they were prominent. And within those areas there were different dyestuffs available. Because of their relative isolation, the colors they tended to dye the fabric for their clothes tended to be those grown nearby. So, one valley (with a particular clan) tended to wear garments of a certain color combination, where others would have different color combinations. This resulted in some of the clan tartans which existed prior to 1745. (Which were, from all evidence, different from what we call "clan tartans" now.) This idea was later (with the help of such notables as the Sobieski Stuarts, Sir Walter Scott, a couple of fabric manufacturers including Wilsons, and the Crown of England, especially Queen Victoria) perverted into the current "clan tartans" with which we are now familiar. (Interesting story.) > And, if the lady of the manor thought that sleeves should be loose, > then maybe everybody else's sleeves in that area would be looser than > normal. To a certain extent this would be true. And it would be more true for the ladies than the gentlemen (for the same reason that in the 16th C it is difficult to tell a German man's clothing from an Englishman's, but it is *very* obvious when you look at the women's styles.) But the changes would have been rather subtle and more along the line of "what's available for fabric and colors" than with cut of the dress. (The local dressmaker would have more to do with this.) Certainly when you get into the 18th and 19th century it was easy to tell someone who was wearing "provincial clothes" made by the local dressmaker from someone who had their clothes made by a London dressmaker. Sometimes, though, the difference was not innovation but rather lack of change in the clothing. For some areas (like Ireland) the styles even in the 15th and early 16th C tended to be about 50 years behind those worn in major metropolitan areas. Same thing with provincial vs London clothes: they tended to rely more on "old designs". Contrary to modern people who seem to think novelty is the most important thing for choosing clothes, in the past it was more "go with the tried and true unless there is some specific reason to change." > I guess another question I have is how much did the events of the day > influence what people wore, beyond if people were better off > financially they had better clothing. By this I mean did hems really > rise and fall in response to economic conditions? Did the huge > population declines brought on by the plague change how people > dressed? Did the collapse of serfdom change anything? Hooboy! That's enough for an entire book on the subject. The short answer, however is that yes, things like the plague and wars and crusades did have an impact on the clothing. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 18:19:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05380 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:19:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07NL2i1024874; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07NL0G6010707; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07NKDG6010215 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h07NK6O0031746 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:20:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301072320.h07NK6O0031746@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Gwyn Carnegie" at Jan 07, 2003 11:02:19 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:20:06 -0800 (PST) Status: RO which one is the Poiret dress? I am unable to locate it from the 1910 page. Thanks > > If you can scan the picture of the original dress, we can help you more. > Another option is find a dress that is close here > http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html and go from there. As an > interesting note, click on the Poiret dress in the 1910 category then drill > down using the zoom feature onto the hemline and notice all the tiny > dressmakers tacks used on the outer fabric which is flat lined with a > light cotton voile to stabilize the skirt bottom. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 18:27:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05421 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:26:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07NS2i1025496; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07NS0G6014470; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h07NRaG6014268 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:27:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h07NRZ109631 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:27:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030107152705.02ab3d08@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress In-Reply-To: <200301072320.h07NK6O0031746@jabberwock.wonderland.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_26389625==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 15:27:49 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_26389625==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Try this link: http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/collection.cgi?lang=e&path=1910/06-002388aa At 03:20 PM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote: >which one is the Poiret dress? I am unable to locate it from the 1910 >page. Thanks > > > > If you can scan the picture of the original dress, we can help you > more. > > Another option is find a dress that is close here > > http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html and go from there. As an > > interesting note, click on the Poiret dress in the 1910 category then > drill > > down using the zoom feature onto the hemline and notice all the tiny > > dressmakers tacks used on the outer fabric which is flat lined with a > > light cotton voile to stabilize the skirt bottom. Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_26389625==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Try this link:
 http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/collection.cgi?lang=e&path=1910/06-002388aa

At 03:20 PM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote:

which one is the Poiret dress?  I am unable to locate it from the 1910
page.  Thanks

> > If you can scan the picture of the original dress,  we can help you more.
> Another option is find a dress that is close here
> http://www.kci.or.jp/collection/collset-e.html and go from there. As an
> interesting note, click on the Poiret dress in the 1910 category then drill
> down using the zoom feature onto the hemline and notice all the tiny
> dressmakers tacks used on the   outer fabric which is flat lined with a
> light cotton voile to stabilize the skirt bottom.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_26389625==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 19:12:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05696 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:12:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080E4i1029182; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080E2G6008855; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f84.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080DjG6008650 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:13:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:13:39 -0800 Received: from 151.199.136.181 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 00:13:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.136.181] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2003 00:13:39.0991 (UTC) FILETIME=[CBD03270:01C2B6AA] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 19:13:39 -0500 Status: RO I am new to this list; I have been doing historical clothing for 20 years, with (I hope) increasing degrees of accuracy. In regards to the idea of purchasing clothes for their novelty value, wouldn't it be likely that poorer people couldn't afford the latest fashions, as well as wearing what they were comfortable with? There's an excellent scene in "Persuasion" where the younger people are wearing the Empire-waistline styles, and the lady from the previous generation is wearing more "Federal" styles---obviously what she was used to wearing. And certainly events of the day influence fashion, but it's hard to pinpoint exactly how. One blatant example is the New Look by Christian Dior in the late 1940's, when women had enough fabric to make their skirts really full since they didn't have to save resources for the war. As to the whole SCA/living history discussion, I think it's silly for an Elizabethan persona to worry about what to say to a pre-Norman Invasion persona, when they all got into their cars to drive to a modern building for the event. Perhaps their points of discussion can be reduced to common denominators; otherwise, if you're that concerned about the interaction, there's undoubtedly a group that focuses on the period you want. And maybe part of the "ideal Middle Ages" is being able to relate to everyone you encounter, no matter their background. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson >Certainly when you get into the 18th and 19th century it was easy to >tell someone who was wearing "provincial clothes" made by the local >dressmaker from someone who had their clothes made by a London >dressmaker. > >Sometimes, though, the difference was not innovation but rather lack >of change in the clothing. For some areas (like Ireland) the styles >even in the 15th and early 16th C tended to be about 50 years behind >those worn in major metropolitan areas. Same thing with provincial vs >London clothes: they tended to rely more on "old designs". Contrary >to modern people who seem to think novelty is the most important >thing for choosing clothes, in the past it was more "go with the >tried and true unless there is some specific reason to change." > > > I guess another question I have is how much did the events of the day > > influence what people wore, beyond if people were better off > > financially they had better clothing. By this I mean did hems really > > rise and fall in response to economic conditions? Did the huge > > population declines brought on by the plague change how people > > dressed? Did the collapse of serfdom change anything? > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 19:35:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05753 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:35:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080b1i1001184; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080b0G6019790; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080afG6019644 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:36:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h080af119021 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:36:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030107131524.01a709a0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_30535500==.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] Syphilis glasses and other sources? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:36:55 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_30535500==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed All of my favorite sources seem to be drying up these days. I'm looking for a pair of round medical glasses with the dark blue syphilis lenses. I'm sure there are some Goth sites that will have reproduction glasses cheap. Hopefully someone out there has a source. I can go the expensive route and order frames and lenses but I've been saving my shekels for a vintage Manton de Manila among other things so I'm crossing my fingers. Danke Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_30535500==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
All of my favorite sources seem to be drying up these days.

I'm looking for a pair of  round medical glasses with the dark blue syphilis lenses. I'm sure there are some Goth sites that will have reproduction glasses cheap. Hopefully someone out there has a source. I can go the expensive route and order frames and lenses but I've been saving my shekels for a vintage Manton de Manila among other things so I'm crossing my fingers.

Danke

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_30535500==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 19:40:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05764 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:40:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080g1i1001476; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080g0G6021921; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f68.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.68]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080fxG6021870 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:41:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:41:54 -0800 Received: from 151.199.136.181 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 00:41:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.136.181] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2003 00:41:54.0019 (UTC) FILETIME=[BD885B30:01C2B6AE] Subject: [h-cost] Re: cotton damask/brocade Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 19:41:53 -0500 Status: RO There is the ever-popular G Street Fabrics in Rockville Maryland, and they are very good about sending samples if you can be specific as to what you want. Diamond Foam and Fabrics in Los Angeles has vast amounts of upholstery fabric; I don't know how they are on mail-order/ samples. You might also want to pick up a sewing magazine and look for ads; I also have a vague recollection of a textile-specific organization or web site or something, but being a bear of very little brain I can't bring the memory back. (Actually, you'll probably see a post at about 3:00 a.m., when the memory does return.) Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: cotton damask/brocade (was Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & >Bad >Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 06:51:38 -0800 > >Sue Clemenger writes, in a message sent 07:00 AM 1/7/03 -0700: >>Can I *hate* you for that comment, Kayta? After I get the drool out of >>my keyboard, of course? >>We have two Hancocks in the entire d@mned state of MT--the nearest is 4? >>hours away, over a couple of nasty passes. And a Hancocks *warehouse*? >>ooooh, baby....I could only wish! > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 20:28:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05906 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:28:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h081U5i1004232; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h081U2G6010487; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h081TnG6010382 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:29:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.45]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8D00ENPG5NBD@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:29:48 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots In-reply-to: <3E1ADF91.24570.3B6486@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107171829.05153450@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107102248.00a89050@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:25:51 -0800 Status: RO >(for the same reason that in the 16th C >it is difficult to tell a German man's clothing from an Englishman's, >but it is *very* obvious when you look at the women's styles.) I think you made a mistake here. German men dressed very differently than anyone else in the 1500s, as did men from the various Italian states. There came to be a Protestant look (pluderhosen) and a Catholic look (pumpkin pants). In the early 1500s there is hardly any similarity, where at the end of that century there is much more similarity. Likewise German women, and Italian ones, start the 1500s very differently dressed from English and French women, and end up looking much more like them by the end of the 1500s. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 20:44:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05956 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:44:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h081k2i1005203; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h081k1G6016548; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h081jfG6016442 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip198.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.126.198]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h081jbq26399 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:45:37 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots Message-ID: <3E1B128F.31143.1029B0D@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E1ADF91.24570.3B6486@localhost> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20030107171829.05153450@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:46:55 -0800 Status: RO > >(for the same reason that in the 16th C > >it is difficult to tell a German man's clothing from an Englishman's, > >but it is *very* obvious when you look at the women's styles.) > > I think you made a mistake here. German men dressed very differently > than anyone else in the 1500s, as did men from the various Italian > states. There came to be a Protestant look (pluderhosen) and a > Catholic look (pumpkin pants). Sounds like we are talking about opposite ends of the 1500s. If you look at the garments worn in Holbein period men, the German and the English are pretty much the same (as opposed to, say Anne of Cleves and Jane Seymour or Kateryne Parr.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 21:13:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06026 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:13:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h082F5i1006756; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h082F1G6026572; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta01.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h082CfG6025696 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08A11C3877 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 7F3D739C0; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:12:36 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1041991956-11827-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) From: prairielark To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Syphilis glasses and other sources? X-Originating-Ip: [209.213.25.165] Message-Id: <20030108021236.7F3D739C0@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: prairielark@herspace.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:12:35 -0800 (PST) Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1041991956-11827-2 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are talking about the sort of glasses worn by Gary Oldman in Dracula.... my sources say "go to www.darksites.com and there are numerous different gothic websites, any of which may have what you are looking for." Hope this helps. Best, S _____________________________________________________________ Herspace.com [[feed your heart * fuel your art]] http://www.herspace.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------=_1041991956-11827-2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by imta10.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F97191129 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080bFi3001203; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:37:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080b8G6019854; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h080afG6019644 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:36:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h080af119021 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:36:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030107131524.01a709a0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_30535500==.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] Syphilis glasses and other sources? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:36:55 -0800 --=====================_30535500==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed All of my favorite sources seem to be drying up these days. I'm looking for a pair of round medical glasses with the dark blue syphilis lenses. I'm sure there are some Goth sites that will have reproduction glasses cheap. Hopefully someone out there has a source. I can go the expensive route and order frames and lenses but I've been saving my shekels for a vintage Manton de Manila among other things so I'm crossing my fingers. Danke Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_30535500==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
All of my favorite sources seem to be drying up these days.

I'm looking for a pair of  round medical glasses with the dark blue syphilis lenses. I'm sure there are some Goth sites that will have reproduction glasses cheap. Hopefully someone out there has a source. I can go the expensive route and order frames and lenses but I've been saving my shekels for a vintage Manton de Manila among other things so I'm crossing my fingers.

Danke

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_30535500==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------------=_1041991956-11827-2-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 21:37:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06082 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:37:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h082d1i1007986; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h082d0G6006453; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h082cpG6006353 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:38:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h082cji15633 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:38:45 +1100 Message-ID: <005b01c2b6bf$29b9b3c0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: References: <20030107143054.74773.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> <07d701c2b65a$6b52de20$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:37:32 +1100 Status: RO I know the BBC have a programme called Routes of English. There is a book and CD that accompanies it but I don't know how much they would help. The website http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/routesofenglish/ also has a message forum so you could ask a professional linguist about it. Baralier -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 22:12:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06338 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:12:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h082kCi1008466; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h082k5G6009028; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h082jfG6008832 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.67]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8D00F3NINRO9@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 18:23:53 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots In-reply-to: <3E1B128F.31143.1029B0D@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107181107.00d5bcd0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20030107171829.05153450@mail.frys.com> <3E1ADF91.24570.3B6486@localhost> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 18:23:36 -0800 Status: RO > > >(for the same reason that in the 16th C > > >it is difficult to tell a German man's clothing from an Englishman's, > > >but it is *very* obvious when you look at the women's styles.) > > > > I think you made a mistake here. German men dressed very differently > > than anyone else in the 1500s, as did men from the various Italian > > states. There came to be a Protestant look (pluderhosen) and a > > Catholic look (pumpkin pants). > >Sounds like we are talking about opposite ends of the 1500s. If you >look at the garments worn in Holbein period men, the German and the >English are pretty much the same (as opposed to, say Anne of Cleves >and Jane Seymour or Kateryne Parr.) Same end. Germans men were into exaggerated slashing and multi-colours, much in the Italian style, where English men weren't. There are two self-portraits of Albrecht Durer that show this Italian influence. Male garments got more similar as the century proceeded, if you don't count the pluderhosen that only Northern European Protestant men wore. Also, Anna von Cleven is not the best example, because while she was German, she wore dresses much more like what the English wore than German women from other areas of Germany, who dressed more like Italian women, did. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 22:15:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06353 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:15:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h083H9i1010050; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:17:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h083H2G6022088; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h083GFG6021720 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:16:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <2003010803161005300k9ecne>; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 03:16:10 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c2b6c4$498f0470$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] tea dying wool? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:16:08 -0800 Status: RO I just bought some red wool crepe online hoping it would turn out to be a dark red, but the fabric has arrived and it's a much brighter red than I would like! Does anyone have any advice on whether I could tea dye it into a darker color? I have to admit I'm a bit of wool novice, so any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 22:38:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06417 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:38:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h083d2i1011270; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h083d0m4001208; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h083cqm4001124 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:38:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.b8.35d19b6f (3972) for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:38:14 -0500 (EST) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_b8.35d19b6f.2b4cf726_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 234 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:38:14 EST Status: RO --part1_b8.35d19b6f.2b4cf726_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this pretty much standard office wear now? Are there any jobs that require women to wear skirts anymore? I don't really have a sense of what's current elsewhere. (My other friends tend to be tech types, and can get away with wearing jeans and t-shirts to work every day.) My mother and one of my aunts work religious nonprofit, and there's a definite understanding in this part of the country that women in a church-type setting should wear skirts. Even if 3/4 of the females in the congregation are wearing pants, the female getting up to give a presentation or a sermon better be in a dress or skirt. Now, if they're staying around the office, I think it's personal preference -- when my aunt's office spent two weeks cleaning out old files (petty cash receipts from the 70's and the like) she wore jeans and a sweatshirt. Leah --part1_b8.35d19b6f.2b4cf726_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Is this pretty much standard office wear now?  Are there any jobs that
require women to wear skirts anymore?  I don't really have a sense of
what's current elsewhere.  (My other friends tend to be tech types, and
can get away with wearing jeans and t-shirts to work every day.)


My mother and one of my aunts work religious nonprofit, and there's a definite understanding in this part of the country that women in a church-type setting should wear skirts.  Even if 3/4 of the females in the congregation are wearing pants, the female getting up to give a presentation or a sermon better be in a dress or skirt.  Now, if they're staying around the office, I think it's personal preference -- when my aunt's office spent two weeks cleaning out old files (petty cash receipts from the 70's and the like) she wore jeans and a sweatshirt.

Leah --part1_b8.35d19b6f.2b4cf726_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 22:53:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06489 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:53:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h083sfi9012042; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:54:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h083r1m4007203; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h083qcm4007061 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:52:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCjpodNV37Ae0kAwEKXBEOTeOIC0ZXDapzg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMYMQS4R; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:52:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] tea dying wool? Message-ID: <20030107.215349.-496305.5.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-7 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:53:48 -0600 Status: RO I wouldn't try tea dying wool.....especially if you ever plan on washing it or it might get wet. Tea dying is NOT color fast and will washout quickly. If you need to dull down the red, you might consider a weak bath of a regular black/brown dye or if you want to grey/muddy the color a bit, try a weak green dye. My tuppence worth, Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 22:59:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06533 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:59:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08412i1012328; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08411m4010618; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0840gm4010428 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net14sp177.directcon.net [209.76.47.177]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h08406o5012118; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:00:07 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030107200404.00813520@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:04:04 -0800 Status: RO Is this pretty much standard office wear now? Are there any jobs that require women to wear skirts anymore? The female teachers at my children's Waldorf school all wear skirts every day. I don't know if it's an absolute rule, but apparently it's a fairly common expectation in Waldorf education. Their outfits are usually of the frumpy/artsy, crunchy granola variety, long flowing skirts, no tight fitting clothing. Some Waldorf schools strongly encourage mothers who are volunteering in the classroom not to wear pants, either. Our school doesn't, at least no one's ever mentioned it to me. And a good thing, too. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 23:03:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06556 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:03:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08454i1012552; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08454m4012295; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0844jm4012096 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:04:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.51.39.139] (pcp456688pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.39.139]) by mtaout07.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8D007X3NBRI1@mtaout07.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 23:04:39 -0500 (EST) From: Allison In-reply-to: <20030107203502.1383.22728.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] Feedback on 1) accents and 2) sewing machines Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:04:38 -0600 Status: RO Here I am delurking from my usual winter hibernation. (How old do I have to be before it's legal for me to go to Florida for the winter?) 1) Re: Accents. I have been an actor for many years, and have had many occasions to study and use various accents/dialects. I now make my living as a voice-over actress and am frequently called upon to use my dialect skills. My experience with Renn Faires has only been as a playtron, but I am usually mistaken for a cast member. (All this to present my qualifications for the following comments...) In my experience on both sides of the stage, it's very important not to let your performance become "about the accent." If you are at all uncomfortable "wearing" your dialect, you will spend too much energy worrying if you sound authentic, and your character or persona will suffer because of it. If you seem unsure, your audience will be listening for your mistakes and won't be paying attention to the action, and your fellow actors will be trying to *not* listen to you so they won't lose their own focus. By all means try to find a tape to listen to - Theatre Bookshop in New York has lots of dialect tapes specifically tailored for actors. Aside from all that, the idea is to sound like what your audience will believe is authentic, not to be really authentic. (with some dialects, if you speak authentically, no one would be able to understand you anyway!) And I agree with Ron, (I think it was his post) that in many cases it's best to use your own speaking voice, unless the character absolutely demands a dialect. If you want to work on sounding "neutral" there are lots of methods of learning that type of speaking, as well. Talk to any actors you know, or perhaps a voice/dialect coach if you live near a big city. That's my 2 cents plus some - feel free to email me privately for more discussion!! 2) Re: Sewing machines. My mother taught me to sew on her mother's Singer. (Probably from the 1940's.) I still have it; it's a great machine, though basic. Mom later gave me a Necchi, which served me well for many years, but was never what you would call a fabulous machine - needed lots of tweaking to maintain consistency. Almost 2 years ago I decided to spring for a new one, so I did some internet research about manual, electronic and computerized machines. My friends kept telling me I wanted a Bernina or an Elna. So I went to my local sewing machine dealers and tried them all. But when I sat down at the (used) Viking 1 I knew this was the machine for me. I LOVE my machine! The customer service at this store is exceptional, and they seem to take a personal interest in me and my sewing. So, for me, the purchase of a new machine was not only a practical experience, but a personal one. I'd be willing to bet that when you find "your" machine, you'll know. Happy sewing! Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 23:08:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06580 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:08:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084A7i1012823; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084A6m4013992; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:10:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (relay04.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0849Gm4013669 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9741 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 04:09:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.243.168]) (envelope-sender ) by relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 8 Jan 2003 04:09:14 -0000 Message-ID: <000701c2b6cb$b2ba3800$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] pleating question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:58:07 -0500 Status: RO OK all- I know we have been talking pleats in the past, but I don't know if we have addressed this one: How were pleats done on German Renaissance dresses (I'm currently working on a Cranach based dress for a client)? I've been told there was a specific way to get the pleats to hang all the way to the ground. My thoughts are to make an extra deep pleat (like 4"-6" deep), pad them, or to take a couple of quick stitches inside to "encourage" the fabric to pleat the entire way down. Anyone else want to kick in and idea? Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 23:08:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06584 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:08:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084AFi1012836; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084AEm4014043; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:10:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0849Om4013715 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil2245.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.245]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0849QDQ017589 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:09:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3E1BA520.A6CC5A4C@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad References: <20030107032701.51216.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 23:12:17 -0500 Status: RO Hi, All. Once again, the situation of Good and Bad Authenticity is in the eye of the beholder. Individuals (all of us) had to start somewhere, and our early efforts were most probably not something that we are currently proud of, yet they were the best we knew how to do. Others just starting out need encouragement and not ridicule, so as to learn, if that is what they want to do, be it a technique of manufacture, a textile type or the historical background of a type of garment. Everybody's standards are different, and when we stop being individuals and join Special Interest Groups, we take on the collective knowledge and motivations of the group. Reenactors/Living History Groups, Historical Sites, Museums and the like usually mandate for themselves standards so that they can do their best to educate the public in as many ways, and as accurately as possible, clothing being one of the most obvious clues to the "differentness" of the situation. Other groups have slightly different itineraries, including having fun, sport and entertainment. Authenticity can only be judged to be good or bad based on the situation in which it is viewed. If you wanted to be in a group where you had to wear the correct clothing appropriate to your station, from fit to cloth to jewelry, etc. you would most probably either find a way to do it, or you would say "No Thanks", and find a way to do what you wanted and still have fun/spend within your means, etc. That is why each group exists for the reasons they do. Authenticity goodness/badness only becomes an issue when a person or group knowingly lies about something, and passes themselves off as something they are not. Even then, the fault lies with individuals and groups, not Authenticity. I would not fault anyone for trying to do something themselves more authentically, but I would blame them for tactlessness in not understanding that others either don't want or are not able to meet their standards. If a person or a group does not want to meet certain standards, they should certainly not be forced to, but neither should they sell themselves as something they aren't. This, to me, is the double standard that makes a weapon of something that isn't meant to be. Individual use of the term is the danger, not Authenticity itself. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 23:22:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06636 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:22:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084O1i1013376; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084O0m4018716; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084Nmm4018564 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:23:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.51.39.139] (pcp456688pcs.shklfd01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.39.139]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8D00253O7EKE@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 23:23:42 -0500 (EST) From: Allison In-reply-to: <20030107203502.1383.22728.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:23:37 -0600 Status: RO I'm doing a living history bit later this year for a Louisiana Purchase commemoration. I've looked for patterns and photos - anything from around 1800. (The year is actually 1803.) But I've tumbled into what appears to be the Bermuda Triangle of costume research. The documentable research seems to jump from late 1700's to 1810-ish, the Napoleonic/Regency period. Can't find much on the in-between years. The period I need is after the post-French Revolution styles, but before the structured foundations of the Regency styles. I think I'll need some sort of underpinnings to give the right silhouette, but still remain soft and flowy-Greek and feminine. And still have two bosoms, not a monobosom as in the 18th c. corsets. I've looked at Sense and Sensibility patterns; they seem to be the best available, but do I really need a pattern? I can modify a princess-seam back from another pattern to make the bodice, the sleeves can also be modified from an existing pattern, and the skirts are very simple. But I can't find a corset pattern. Does one exist? Looks like it should be a long-line non-constricting garment, with a center busk, and a good strong/stiff upper back, to give the erect posture, but aside from that I am clueless! (I'm pretty sure I will need a corset of some sort - I am "fluffy" with a DD bust, and I don't want to scare small children.) Any advice? Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 23:27:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06652 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:27:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084T1i1013654; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084T0m4020311; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084S3m4019976 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.82.170.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.82.170] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18W7ow-0003kU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:28:03 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030107231209.00afc5c8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <20030108033900.1206.80942.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and office wear Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 23:27:40 -0500 Status: RO Leah wrote: >My mother and one of my aunts work religious nonprofit, and there's a >definite understanding in this part of the country that women in a >church-type setting should wear skirts. Once religion goes into the mix, skirts become almost a "must". In an Orthodox Judaism, women are required to dress modestly; they will frequently wear long sleeves and long-ish skirts, and rarely -- if ever -- pants. Married women and widows will cover their heads with wigs, kerchiefs, or hats when in public. For a woman to wear pants can be considered to be cross-dressing, which is forbidden by the Bible (somewhere in Deuteronomy, IIRC; I can't think of the reference offhand). However, if the pants come from a woman's department and are styled unlike the styles made for boys and men, and you're doing something in which your health and safety (or your modesty) is at risk if you leave your legs uncovered (or covered only by nylons) -- for example, working in a chemistry lab -- it is acceptable for a woman to wear pants. OTOH, I think (I'm not sure) that the Chassidic communities will not even allow that much. (It could depend on the sect of Chassidism or the particular community...) If in the heat of summer, you should come across a prepubescent girl wearing long sleeved shirts with high necklines, long skirts that look like they were designed for thirty-something or older women, and wearing heavy stockings or tights, she's most likely either Muslim or Chassidic. (Muslim if her hair is covered; Chassidic if it is not.) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 23:31:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06669 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:31:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084X1i1013910; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084X1m4021497; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084Wsm4021468 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-002-068.jps.net ([216.119.2.68] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18W7tc-0006g7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:32:54 -0800 Message-ID: <005c01c2b6d0$07898120$440277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c2b5c4$ad5d8540$250477d8@pavilion> <3E1A45A5.753CE7B9@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:40:07 -0800 Status: RO Australian slang. Dag - Idiot or unfashionable person, someone that doesn't fit in, but also a likeable, humorous fellow. A common phrase is "oh he's such a dag" Daggy is an adjective of the same. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] authenticity/idiotically unsuitable > Daggy? > --sue > > Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > > Well that puzzles me, as the ability to wear jeans was a criteria for me to > > even consider the school and jeans I definitely wore! Nice ones though. > > They also had a rule there that men had to wear sox with their shoes and > > topsiders or deck shoes, I can't remember the term, were in style and needed > > to be worn without sox in order not to look daggy. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 23:43:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06705 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:43:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084j3i1014531; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084j1m4025382; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h084i8m4025053 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCryrEPQPoC+VZR5k/0toJoYjf4Cautgn0A=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMYQN757; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 23:43:50 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? Message-ID: <20030107.224614.-496305.11.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:46:13 -0600 Status: RO Past Patterns has a dress that it is marketing specifically for the Lewis and Clark period. Go here for details: http://www.pastpatterns.com/ Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 7 23:44:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06710 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:44:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084jFi1014549; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084jEm4025491; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:45:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h084iom4025301 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:44:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-002-068.jps.net ([216.119.2.68] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18W85B-0004tI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:44:50 -0800 Message-ID: <008701c2b6d1$b7a59f20$440277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030107143054.74773.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> <07d701c2b65a$6b52de20$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> <005b01c2b6bf$29b9b3c0$18a231d2@valadan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:52:15 -0800 Status: RO Thanks for all the leads. Speaking is my area of weakness in re-enactment, but I have decided to put some attention into this area. I'm just thankful that speech nazi's aren't as militant or as prolific as the costume police or I would really be in trouble. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 00:18:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06803 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 00:18:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h085K2i1015928; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h085K1m4006656; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h085JIm4006408 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:19:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a26.in-tch.com [66.62.107.6]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0852qH26638 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:02:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1BB459.21541077@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107102248.00a89050@mail.attbi.com> <4.3.1.2.20030107171829.05153450@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:17:13 -0700 Status: RO While I'm aware of the different styles of men's clothing in the 16th c., I've never heard them differentiated by religion before. Could you provide specifics? sources? --sue, curious Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >(for the same reason that in the 16th C > >it is difficult to tell a German man's clothing from an Englishman's, > >but it is *very* obvious when you look at the women's styles.) > > I think you made a mistake here. German men dressed very differently than > anyone else in the 1500s, as did men from the various Italian > states. There came to be a Protestant look (pluderhosen) and a Catholic > look (pumpkin pants). In the early 1500s there is hardly any similarity, > where at the end of that century there is much more similarity. Likewise > German women, and Italian ones, start the 1500s very differently dressed > from English and French women, and end up looking much more like them by > the end of the 1500s. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 02:19:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA15793 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 02:19:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h087K6i1020103; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 00:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h087K1m4008897; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 00:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h087J5m4008632 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 00:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.67]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8D0099YVH0VT@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 23:00:37 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots In-reply-to: <3E1BB459.21541077@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030107214843.00cdac30@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107102248.00a89050@mail.attbi.com> <4.3.1.2.20030107171829.05153450@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:30:32 -0800 Status: RO >While I'm aware of the different styles of men's clothing in the 16th >c., I've never heard them differentiated by religion before. Could you >provide specifics? sources? The idea was mentioned in Davenport, and while I haven't seen specific text that says it's true, it seems to be from looking at who wore what. I am certain of it, and I guess I spoke like I was certain. Here's why: The Spanish were the big Catholic influence, and Spanish men wore those short paned things I call pumpkin pants, and spread the style to anywhere they influenced. The Spanish in the Netherlands wore them, and I think the Catholics there who dealt with them did too. The English, while not exactly Catholics, weren't flaming Protestants, and they wore them (I bet Philip of Spain introduced them). The French, mostly Catholic, wore them, but as I recall the Hugenots did not. Pluderhosen seem to have been worn in the German states that were Protestant, and their mercenaries spread the style regardless of who hired them. Many German states were Catholic, and I think a comparison of portraits, areas, and religions will indicate that these Catholic Germans wore the Spanish style instead of pluderhosen. The Scandinavians, mostly Protestant, wore them. The Dutch people in the Netherlands, mostly Protestant, wore them, or baggy trousers shaped like them. The Italians, while mostly Catholic, wore something like a cross between pumpkin pants and pluderhosen - straight-legged, snug-fitting, slashed, above-the-knee shorts. I wasn't counting them because they didn't wear one or the other. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 03:22:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24467 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 03:22:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h088O3i1021987; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 01:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h088O1m4024920; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 01:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h088NZm4024810 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 01:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h088QVmm027852 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 00:26:32 -0800 Message-ID: <3E1BE046.9030109@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 00:24:38 -0800 Status: RO To Allison- Here is Farthingale's site with a review of the Mantua Maker's Regency Corset, and links to buying the various pieces. http://www.farthingales.on.ca/regency.php Good luck, Theresa Eacker Allison wrote: > I'm doing a living history bit later this year for a Louisiana Purchase > commemoration...I > can't find a corset pattern. Does one exist? Looks like it should be a > long-line non-constricting garment, with a center busk, and a good > strong/stiff upper back, to give the erect posture, but aside from that I am > clueless! (I'm pretty sure I will need a corset of some sort - I am > "fluffy" with a DD bust, and I don't want to scare small children.) > > Any advice? > > Allison > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 05:52:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19186 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:52:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08As3i1026314; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 03:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08As1m4027782; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 03:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ar6m4027633 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 03:53:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from p542-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.34] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18WDpY-00048z-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:53:04 +1300 Message-ID: <002901c2b704$1e458560$22c2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <000701c2b6cb$b2ba3800$01fea8c0@livingroom> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:53:02 +1300 Status: RO > How were pleats done on German Renaissance dresses (I'm currently working on > a Cranach based dress for a client)? There are a few ways, and I would highly recommend using a circular base for the skirt. It means that what ever pleat you do do it will flare well and the pleats will fold as they do in the paintings. I did a sort of pleat on my dress based on Mary of Hungary's gown: http://recital.tripod.com/costume/1520.htm And you'll see how the skirt naturally wants to fold into deep pleats. There are a number of skirts that are clearly circular cut both pleated and non. I think I sent some to the list a year of so ago, but I can probably find them again:) The pleats themselves seem to mostly be knife pleats looking at how they fold at the hem (all folds pointing in the same direction. But some look very padded while others simply don't;) Organ pleats, stacked pleats and rolled pleats are probably the best bet for those fat round pleats you see:) Sorry, I'm having a hard time finding my links tonight, will post some if I find them tomorrow;) michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 07:30:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21788 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:30:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08CW5i1028727; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:32:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08CW0m4017745; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08CVRm4017616 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:31:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.67]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8E009ROASEPK@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 04:31:27 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question In-reply-to: <000701c2b6cb$b2ba3800$01fea8c0@livingroom> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030108042854.0516e5c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 04:31:16 -0800 Status: RO >OK all- I know we have been talking pleats in the past, but I don't know if >we have addressed this one: > >How were pleats done on German Renaissance dresses (I'm currently working on >a Cranach based dress for a client)? > > I've been told there was a specific way to get the pleats to hang all the >way to the ground. My thoughts are to make an extra deep pleat (like 4"-6" >deep), pad them, or to take a couple of quick stitches inside to "encourage" >the fabric to pleat the entire way down. Use thin natural-fibre fabric, like silk velvet, like they did? I have seen quite a few pleat-skirt Germans, and nothing has consistently worked, for any of them. So I'm going to be watching this thread to find out what you do that works. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 07:44:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22560 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:43:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Cj4i1028999; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Cj3m4020686; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail009.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail009.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ci6m4020479 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail009.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h08ChxF06088 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:43:59 +1100 Message-ID: <00cb01c2b713$b75aad70$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: References: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c2b5c4$ad5d8540$250477d8@pavilion> <3E1A45A5.753CE7B9@in-tch.com> <005c01c2b6d0$07898120$440277d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:41:41 +1100 Status: RO From: "Lisa Sinervo" > Australian slang. > > Dag - Idiot or unfashionable person, someone that doesn't fit in, but also > a likeable, humorous fellow. A common phrase is "oh he's such a dag" > Daggy is an adjective of the same. Would possibly equate to dork but without the intellectual stigma. Usually a *simple* person rather than a stupid person. Go on. Tell them about the sheep reference Lisa... Baralier -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 07:48:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22575 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:48:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Co2i1029105; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Co1m4021750; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08Cnfm4021670 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:49:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030108124940.2395.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:49:40 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030108042854.0516e5c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:49:40 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > > I've been told there was a specific way to get the pleats to hang all the > >way to the ground. My thoughts are to make an extra deep pleat (like 4"-6" > >deep), pad them, or to take a couple of quick stitches inside to "encourage" > >the fabric to pleat the entire way down. Would sun-ray pleating help? And perhaps (if possible at all with the fabric) using a damp cloth and pressing in all the pleats all the way down? I don't know, just a thought. Nicole - snowed in her home in the South of England. Sheesh! ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 07:56:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22593 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:56:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Cw1i1029310; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Cw0m4023474; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08CvUm4023387 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:57:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h08CvS11021912 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:57:29 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] tea dying wool? In-Reply-To: <000901c2b6c4$498f0470$befc8218@hopperflop2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:57:28 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I don't think tea will dye it as dark as you'd like. Go for an actual fabric dye; either RIT, or try dharmatrading.com for a good fabric dye specifically meant for wool. I've tried to overdye red wool with brown RIT dye to 'dull' it, and it didn't work as well as I'd have liked (there is a slight difference in color), so I've been contemplating trying the latter route myself. If brown RIT doesn't work, I suspect tea wouldn't work either. Cheers, Mara On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > I just bought some red wool crepe online hoping it would turn out to be a > dark red, but the fabric has arrived and it's a much brighter red than I > would like! Does anyone have any advice on whether I could tea dye it into > a darker color? I have to admit I'm a bit of wool novice, so any advice > would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 08:07:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22639 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:07:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08D93i1029613; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08D92m4026152; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08D8Vm4025974 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:08:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h08D8U11023121 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:08:30 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E1BA520.A6CC5A4C@dandy.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Costumes at historic sites, was Authenticity Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:08:30 -0500 (EST) Status: RO The subject of costumes at historic sites came up on another list I'm on recently (in the context of a particular site having really awful costumes, probably due to lack of budget to replace them -- no, it's not any of the sites mentioned in this thread). I agree with Ron, sometimes it's better for sites not to costume all of their workers/docents/volunteers. For example, at Plimouth Plantation, I found that it was a lot easier to talk to the non-costumed employees, because I had questions about the differences in what they were doing (woodworking, shoemaking) and modern techniques. This is a conversation I couldn't have had with the costumed interpreters doing first-person impressions. But I'm glad both types of interpreters were there. Also, at Mount Vernon, the tour guides are all in khaki skirts or pants and polo shirts, but there are a couple of people doing GOOD first-person impressions at the site, too; that a) saves the site the trouble and expense of finding costumes for all their volunteers, b) allows the tour guides to talk about the changes to the site over time, and the overall history of the site, and c) allows the people doing a first-person impression to do it really well, because they don't have to deal with the kinds of questions that are covered by the non-costumed tour guides. Another person on the list said that if they didn't offer their docents the chance to wear costumes at all, they wouldn't have any docents -- apparently the costumes are something the docents really want to do. So I'm sure each site varies in its needs. Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 08:17:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22672 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:17:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08DJ2i1029872; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08DJ0m4028966; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08DIim4028891 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:18:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h08DIh11024348 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:18:44 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:18:43 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Hi, Allison, I've got a copy of a paper on a set of very late 18th c. 'transitional' stays from the Churchill House in England. These stays are shaped like shortened 18th c. stays, but they only have boning in the center front (where they lace), the center back, and possibly along the angled side seam (there are boning channels, but the boning is missing). The stays have tabs, but they are unboned. The interesting thing about these stays is that they have one triangular bust gusset on each side. These stays also have shoulder straps, which they'd have to, in order to stay up (being high-waisted). They are dated ca. 1795 to 1810, I think. I made a set for myself last summer and wore them with a War of 1812 period outfit (petticoat bodice and shortwaisted shortgown); they were very comfortable. My friend Kate Johnson made a set for herself and said they were so comfortable she could sleep in them. She's also turned up several other examples in costume collections, for a paper she presented this fall, so I think they weren't uncommon in the last decade of the 18th c. when fashions were transitioning from earlier styles to the high-waisted Regency styles. To my knowledge, there isn't a pattern available for this style, though. I drafted mine up using Drea's Elizabethan Corset Pattern Generator, but used my under-bust measurement instead of bust measurement for the top dimension, since I was adding the gussets to accomodate the bustline. Cheers, Mara On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Allison wrote: > I'm doing a living history bit later this year for a Louisiana Purchase > commemoration. I've looked for patterns and photos - anything from around > 1800. (The year is actually 1803.) But I've tumbled into what appears to > be the Bermuda Triangle of costume research. The documentable research > seems to jump from late 1700's to 1810-ish, the Napoleonic/Regency period. > Can't find much on the in-between years. The period I need is after the > post-French Revolution styles, but before the structured foundations of the > Regency styles. I think I'll need some sort of underpinnings to give the > right silhouette, but still remain soft and flowy-Greek and feminine. And > still have two bosoms, not a monobosom as in the 18th c. corsets. I've > looked at Sense and Sensibility patterns; they seem to be the best > available, but do I really need a pattern? I can modify a princess-seam > back from another pattern to make the bodice, the sleeves can also be > modified from an existing pattern, and the skirts are very simple. But I > can't find a corset pattern. Does one exist? Looks like it should be a > long-line non-constricting garment, with a center busk, and a good > strong/stiff upper back, to give the erect posture, but aside from that I am > clueless! (I'm pretty sure I will need a corset of some sort - I am > "fluffy" with a DD bust, and I don't want to scare small children.) > > Any advice? > > Allison _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 08:32:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22712 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:32:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08DY3i1000479; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08DY1m4003189; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08DXfm4003097 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:33:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h08DY1113887.; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:34:01 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:33:40 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Living History-questions to ponder Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h08DXfm4003097 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:33:07 +0000 Status: RO Interesting discussion. In the society I belong to, and I think generally in the UK, "living history" is used to refer to the people who choose to interact with the public in a period setting (a camp or a historic house), as distinct from those taking part in battles or other displays in front of an audience. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 08:39:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22724 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:39:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Df3i1000739; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Df1m4005333; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Depm4005247 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:40:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-64.154.72.219.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([64.154.72.219] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WGRu-00031Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:40:51 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030108083148.00b00cc8@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <20030108072001.8891.59612.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:40:30 -0500 Status: RO On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:23:37 -0600, Allison WROTE >I'm doing a living history bit later this year for a Louisiana Purchase >commemoration. I've looked for patterns and photos - anything from around >1800. (The year is actually 1803.) But I've tumbled into what appears to >be the Bermuda Triangle of costume research. The documentable research >seems to jump from late 1700's to 1810-ish, the Napoleonic/Regency period. >Can't find much on the in-between years. The period I need is after the >post-French Revolution styles, but before the structured foundations of the >Regency styles. Don't know if this will work for the U.S. or France, but there are a couple of examples of gowns in PoF1 (c. 1660-1860) that would fit in that frame. >I think I'll need some sort of underpinnings to give the >right silhouette, but still remain soft and flowy-Greek and feminine. While it looks like some of the structure is built into the gowns in PoF, I believe I recall some comments in "Seeing Through Clothes" that mentioned the types or shapes of undergarments that would have been used in that period. >And still have two bosoms, not a monobosom as in the 18th c. corsets. The Arnold sketches look like monobosoms... but that might just be the Arnold sketches . Hope this helps *some*... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 09:29:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22873 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:29:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08EV1i1002642; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08EV1m4019446; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08EUHm4019123 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.129.133] by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030108143012.PAWP7656.out002.verizon.net@[192.168.129.133]> for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:30:12 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Living History-questions to ponder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out002.verizon.net from [192.168.129.133] at Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:30:12 -0600 Message-Id: <20030108143012.PAWP7656.out002.verizon.net@[192.168.129.133]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 9:30:12 -0500 Status: RO > > From: "Kate M Bunting" > Date: 2003/01/08 Wed AM 08:33:07 EST > To: > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Living History-questions to ponder > > Interesting discussion. In the society I belong to, and I think generally in the UK, "living history" is used to refer to the people who choose to interact with the public in a period setting (a camp or a historic house), as distinct from those taking part in battles or other displays in front of an audience. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > > _______________________________________________ This is a common distinction used by re-enacting groups, but as I mentioned is only a small part of what the term was created to mean. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 09:34:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22926 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:34:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ea4i1002866; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ea2m4020935; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08EZ9m4020645 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.129.133] by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030108143503.PBOU7656.out002.verizon.net@[192.168.129.133]> for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:35:03 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out002.verizon.net from [192.168.129.133] at Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:35:03 -0600 Message-Id: <20030108143503.PBOU7656.out002.verizon.net@[192.168.129.133]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 9:35:03 -0500 Status: RO > > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > Date: 2003/01/07 Tue PM 11:52:15 EST > To: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation > > Thanks for all the leads. Speaking is my area of weakness in re-enactment, > but I have decided to put some attention into this area. I'm just thankful > that speech nazi's aren't as militant or as prolific as the costume police > or I would really be in trouble. > > Lisa > They can't be as militant, as in reality we have very little idea what anyone sounded like prior to audio-recording. It is all just guess work, which is part of the reason that linguists have trouble agreeing on so many things. If you are intendiong on contacting Plimoth Plantation, let me know. I can get you the name of the person and the contact information for the lady who leads up their 1st person interpreters. I presented with her a few years ago. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 09:38:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23074 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:38:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08EU5i1002551; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08EU1m4019052; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08ETim4018957 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:29:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-003-188.jps.net ([216.119.3.188] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WHDD-0002ih-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 06:29:44 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c2b723$6cddaa80$bc0377d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c2b5c4$ad5d8540$250477d8@pavilion> <3E1A45A5.753CE7B9@in-tch.com> <005c01c2b6d0$07898120$440277d8@pavilion> <00cb01c2b713$b75aad70$18a231d2@valadan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:37:07 -0800 Status: RO You will have to tell them about the sheep reference Baralier. I was only a transplanted American and am not sure that I have heard that one. Actually it surprised me to find that daggy was not a word americans use as I had not intended to use Australian slang, it was just the most apt word to apply. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baralier" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > > Australian slang. > > > > Dag - Idiot or unfashionable person, someone that doesn't fit in, but also > > a likeable, humorous fellow. A common phrase is "oh he's such a dag" > > Daggy is an adjective of the same. > > Would possibly equate to dork but without the intellectual stigma. Usually a > *simple* person rather than a stupid person. > > Go on. Tell them about the sheep reference Lisa... > > Baralier > -- > It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky > http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder > Costumier & Reprobate > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 09:41:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23133 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:41:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Eh2i1003386; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Eh1Ft023719; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08Eg7m4023175 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:42:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030108144158.66726.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:41:58 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030107200404.00813520@pop.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:41:58 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Is this pretty much standard office wear now? Are there any jobs that > require women to wear skirts anymore? If I may add my very strong tupennce here, if anyone told me in anywhere but a religious setting (where I would never work anyway) that I am required to wear skirts BECAUSE I am a woman, I would, if I possibly can, see if I can sue those people. To kingdom come. I have the very strong belief, that no one, absolutely no one, should be, must be, could possibly be, discriminated because of their gender, and yes, being told to have to wear certain things (and that goes for men too, why should men NOT be allowed to wear skirts???) I consider discrimination when it is because of the gender, which happens to be determined by genes and not necessarily by what the person feels he/she is. I wear what I want at work, and that is never skirts, and most women at work wear trousers (hehe, I bet they were pants too - remember? Americanism pants = British trousers, pants here = underwear) Nicole - as said before, who once very seriously considered a gender-change, if it were not for - bluntly - that one can 'chop something off, but not sew something on'. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 09:49:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23292 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:49:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ep1i1003904; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ep0Ft026695; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08EoIFt026459 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-108-125.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.108.125]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOS84453; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:50:27 GMT Message-ID: <0bfd01c2b725$1ea18510$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030108144158.66726.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:49:16 -0000 Status: RO A few schools in the UK insisted girls wore skirts, I think theyt lost every case that went to court Possibily at the Bar ? (ie court) I seem to remember my sister always wearing black skirts Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 10:17:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23407 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:17:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08FH3i1005317; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08FH2Ft006408; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08FGnFt006329 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:16:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WHwn-0001oE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 07:16:49 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] tea dying wool? Message-ID: <001301c2b728$fb604380$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:16:55 -0700 Status: RO I agree with Mara-I have had great success doing similar things with the Ecru and Bronze dyes from Dharma (Procion). Their vat dying instructions, available on their website, work very well if you follow the instructions. It isn't hard!! BTY the soda ash is available at most pool maintenance stores. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 10:18:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23416 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:18:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08FK0i1005502; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08FK0Ft007728; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08FJfFt007583 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:19:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-4-71.cw2.jps.net ([216.119.4.71] helo=pavilion) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WHzY-0000j4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 07:19:40 -0800 Message-ID: <002301c2b72a$68bb25c0$bc0377d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c2b5c4$ad5d8540$250477d8@pavilion> <3E1A45A5.753CE7B9@in-tch.com> <005c01c2b6d0$07898120$440277d8@pavilion> <00cb01c2b713$b75aad70$18a231d2@valadan> <000c01c2b723$6cddaa80$bc0377d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:27:07 -0800 Status: RO oh no! You're not talking about the lonely kiwi jokes are u? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:37 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy > You will have to tell them about the sheep reference Baralier. I was only a > transplanted American and am not sure that I have heard that one. Actually > it surprised me to find that daggy was not a word americans use as I had not > intended to use Australian slang, it was just the most apt word to apply. > > Lisa > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Baralier" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:41 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy > > > > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > > > Australian slang. > > > > > > Dag - Idiot or unfashionable person, someone that doesn't fit in, but > also > > > a likeable, humorous fellow. A common phrase is "oh he's such a dag" > > > Daggy is an adjective of the same. > > > > Would possibly equate to dork but without the intellectual stigma. Usually > a > > *simple* person rather than a stupid person. > > > > Go on. Tell them about the sheep reference Lisa... > > > > Baralier > > -- > > It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky > > http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder > > Costumier & Reprobate > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 10:19:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23420 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:19:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08FL1i1005563; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08FL0Ft008173; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08FKdFt008042 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:20:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030108152039.29749.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:20:39 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030108143503.PBOU7656.out002.verizon.net@[192.168.129.133]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:20:39 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- r.carnegie@verizon.net wrote: > > > They can't be as militant, as in reality we have very little idea what > anyone sounded like prior to audio-recording. It is all just guess work, > which is part of the reason that linguists have trouble agreeing on so many > things. Well, it is guesswork, but very eduicated guesswork, and actually, at least for the pronunciation of Old English (I do not venture to speak for Middle and Early Modern English because I specialised in Old English) there is a commonly agreed way of prounciation by most scholars. We all know that this is flawed, but we all hope that it is the least flawed way of pronouncing. Oh what wouldn't I give for a time machine... Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 11:38:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23780 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:38:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ge4i1012089; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ge17F017717; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Gdu7F017673 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:39:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h08Gdt11022526 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:39:55 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements In-Reply-To: <20030108144158.66726.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:39:55 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, [iso-8859-1] N Kipar wrote: > If I may add my very strong tupennce here, if anyone told me in anywhere but a > religious setting (where I would never work anyway) that I am required to wear > skirts BECAUSE I am a woman, I would, if I possibly can, see if I can sue those > people. To kingdom come. Interesting choice of words, Nicole... I think the key here is that the kinds of women who are _likely_ to work for the sorts of religious organizations that require women to wear skirts are, themselves, of that religious mindset. I grew up in a Pentacostal type of church, and we wore dresses or skirts to church every Sunday, not because it was required, but because it was the thing that was expected. Some women went so far as to cover their heads because of the bible verse about women doing so, but that was optional. In some Pentacostal sects, women also don't wear makeup and wear their hair long (put up, if they're married), but the churches I grew up in weren't quite that strict, either. If you think about it, these are 'norms' that are held over from the 19th century or earlier. If the women in these sects want to follow those traditions, there's 'no skin off my nose', as the saying goes -- not my problem. I'm just glad that those traditions have changed for the rest of the world, so that we can wear trousers or skirts, or have long or short hair, as we please. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 12:02:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23886 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:02:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08H43i1014227; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08H427F001061; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08H3A7F000571 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:03:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h08H3A126111 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:03:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030108083854.01b2a8a0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question In-Reply-To: <000701c2b6cb$b2ba3800$01fea8c0@livingroom> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3728484==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:03:22 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_3728484==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There are a few different schools of thought on how to achieve (or not achieve) that tubular looking pleat and whether or not it was just style convention in regards to the painters. That is a debate for someone else with heavy flame proof clothing >; ) The most successful skirt I made that created this look used a pattern which looks much like this http://costume.dm.net/schnittbuch/page20.jpg - without the crotch notch obviously - in four parts. The skirt was made of a heavy fustian with velvet bands at the bottom. With underskirts, it hung almost perfectly. The top of the skirt was slightly stiffened with a 1" twill tape then cartridge pleated directly to the bodice. The pleats were only 1" deep all the way around and then I went back over then using an overcast stitch to flatten them much like a knife pleat except that there were so many that you had to engineer the pleats over each other. I know it sounds odd. I have access to a digital camera for a bit and hopefully I can take photos of the inside the skirt if I'm being too confusing. This could take a bit since I'm behind on photographing some madder dye returns for another list member. Thanks so much Drea for putting the Enn's book on-line! I love having it as a reference instead of saying "I have this photo at home" all the time. At 10:58 PM 1/7/2003 -0500, you wrote: >OK all- I know we have been talking pleats in the past, but I don't know if >we have addressed this one: > >How were pleats done on German Renaissance dresses (I'm currently working on >a Cranach based dress for a client)? > > I've been told there was a specific way to get the pleats to hang all the >way to the ground. My thoughts are to make an extra deep pleat (like 4"-6" >deep), pad them, or to take a couple of quick stitches inside to "encourage" >the fabric to pleat the entire way down. > >Anyone else want to kick in and idea? > >Lyn Greaves >Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton >COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_3728484==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
There are a few different schools of thought on how to achieve (or not achieve) that tubular looking pleat and whether or not it was just style convention in regards to the painters. That is a debate for someone else with heavy flame proof clothing >; )

The most successful skirt I made that created this look used a pattern which looks much like this http://costume.dm.net/schnittbuch/page20.jpg - without the crotch notch obviously - in four parts. The skirt was made of a heavy fustian with velvet bands at the bottom. With underskirts, it hung almost perfectly.

The top of the skirt was slightly stiffened with a 1" twill tape then cartridge pleated directly to the bodice. The pleats were only 1" deep all the way around and then I went back over then using an overcast stitch to flatten them much like a knife pleat except that there were so many that you had to engineer the pleats over each other.

I know it sounds odd. I have access to a digital camera for a bit and hopefully I can take photos of the inside the skirt if I'm being too confusing. This could take a bit since I'm behind on  photographing some madder dye returns for another list member.

Thanks so much Drea for putting the Enn's book on-line!  I love having it as a reference instead of saying "I have this photo at home" all the time.

At 10:58 PM 1/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:

OK all- I know we have been talking pleats in the past, but I don't know if
we have addressed this one:

How were pleats done on German Renaissance dresses (I'm currently working on
a Cranach based dress for a client)?

 I've been told there was a specific way to get the pleats to hang all the
way to the ground.  My thoughts are to make an extra deep pleat (like 4"-6"
deep), pad them, or to take a couple of quick stitches inside to "encourage"
the fabric to pleat the entire way down.

Anyone else want to kick in and idea?

Lyn Greaves
Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton
COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis --=====================_3728484==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 12:06:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23912 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:06:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08H81i1014617; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08H807F003356; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08H7i7F003170 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvdfywDyJiO2dJRpHMIh0FU="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HMZ27K9X; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:06:46 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy Message-ID: <20030108.090508.2024.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:43:14 -0800 Status: RO If you said "daggy" to me, I would assume you were referring to sleeves. ;) Arlys On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:37:07 -0800 "Lisa Sinervo" writes: > You will have to tell them about the sheep reference Baralier. I was > only a > transplanted American and am not sure that I have heard that one. > Actually > it surprised me to find that daggy was not a word americans use as I > had not > intended to use Australian slang, it was just the most apt word to > apply. > > Lisa ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 12:23:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24342 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:23:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08HP3i1016176; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08HP17F013139; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08HOG7F012708 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:24:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030108172416.37287.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:24:16 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:24:16 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > If you think about it, these are 'norms' that are held over from the 19th > century or earlier. If the women in these sects want to follow those > traditions, there's 'no skin off my nose', as the saying goes -- not my > problem. Well, that's what I said - or at least tried to say (unless I used the wrong English) I said anywhere _but_ in a religious setting. It is not my business what people believe or not believe and thus wear or not wear. Skirts or trousers or veils or not, just not my business. If I went to a strictly muslim country as a visitor I would certainly cover myself up completely in the required way, because it is their ways and their country, and the same goes vice versa for people visiting my country. religion is completely a thing of its own, which is not my business because none of any religions is mine, but any place that is secular and tells women they are required to wear skirts for the sake of it (and no other justifiable reason) but because they think it is 'prettier' would find themselves confronted with wrath. Or, as mel said, she doesn't know of a school that did not _lose_ their court cases. Tradition, too, is something else in certain matters, where a skirt is similar to a robe, and more costume than clothing, see the courts, where in England they appear to be 'costumed' (not meant in any derogatory way). Anyway, enough of that, it isn't historical costume related and thus this shall be my last post about this topic so close and burning to my heart. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 12:23:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24349 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:23:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08HPLi1016214; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08HPK7F013301; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08HOJ7F012741 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:24:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip124.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.124]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h08HOD825509 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:24:14 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots Message-ID: <3E1BEE6A.16448.45D8CB5@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E1B128F.31143.1029B0D@localhost> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20030107181107.00d5bcd0@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:24:58 -0800 Status: RO > > > >(for the same reason that in the 16th C > > > >it is difficult to tell a German man's clothing from an > > > >Englishman's, but it is *very* obvious when you look at the > > > >women's styles.) > > > > > > I think you made a mistake here. German men dressed very > > > differently than anyone else in the 1500s, as did men from the > > > various Italian states. There came to be a Protestant look > > > (pluderhosen) and a Catholic look (pumpkin pants). > > > >Sounds like we are talking about opposite ends of the 1500s. If you > >look at the garments worn in Holbein period men, the German and the > >English are pretty much the same (as opposed to, say Anne of Cleves > >and Jane Seymour or Kateryne Parr.) > > Same end. Germans men were into exaggerated slashing and > multi-colours, much in the Italian style, where English men weren't. While there were some who were more into the slashing, many weren't. There are many portraits from that period which are basically indistinguishable whether they are German or English. Also, there are Englishmen wearing lots of slashing as well. > There are two self-portraits of Albrecht Durer that show this Italian > influence. Male garments got more similar as the century proceeded, > if you don't count the pluderhosen that only Northern European > Protestant men wore. Also, Anna von Cleven is not the best example, > because while she was German, she wore dresses much more like what the > English wore than German women from other areas of Germany, who > dressed more like Italian women, did. In the portrait of Anne of Cleves by Holbein she is wearing a dress which is typical of her homeland. It, at least to my eyes, doesn't look anything like what was being worn in England or France at the time, especially in the cut of the bodice and the sleeves. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 12:50:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24437 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:50:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Hq5i1018745; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:52:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Hq1N7028555; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08HpQN7028192 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h08HpP912006 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.166] (tnt-1-230.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.166]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h08HpOm11984 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:51:24 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030108143503.PBOU7656.out002.verizon.net@[192.168.129.133]> References: <20030108143503.PBOU7656.out002.verizon.net@[192.168.129.133]> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:24:11 -0800 Status: RO At 9:35 AM -0500 1/8/03, wrote: > > >> From: "Lisa Sinervo" >> Date: 2003/01/07 Tue PM 11:52:15 EST >> To: >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation >> >> Thanks for all the leads. Speaking is my area of weakness in re-enactment, >> but I have decided to put some attention into this area. I'm just thankful >> that speech nazi's aren't as militant or as prolific as the costume police >> or I would really be in trouble. >> >> Lisa >> > > They can't be as militant, as in reality we have very little idea >what anyone sounded like prior to audio-recording. It is all just >guess work, which is part of the reason that linguists have trouble >agreeing on so many things. > Well ... it depends on what you mean by "very little idea". We _do_ know vastly more about historic language and pronunciation than is typically reflected in pretty much even the most careful attempts at historic presentation. The disconnect between the available language and the re-enactment practice tends to be much more from the scarcity of serious interaction between the historic linguistics and re-enactment/theater communities, and the steepness of the learning curve for those trying to understand and apply the historic knowledge that does exist, given that you can't just say, "Here's a tape, study and imitate it." When the knowledge is expressed in forms like, "in the second half of the century, the palatalization of alveolar stops before non-low front vowels began to shift more to fricatives in unstressed onsets" [made-up, but plausible, example] there's an extra layer of "translation" needed for the average person to use the information. I spend a lot of time trying to describe to non-specialists (in ascii e-mail yet!) historic pronunciation of something as simple as personal names -- there are times when you want to throw up your hands and tell everyone "go learn IPA and then come back and talk to me" which, of course, is an unreasonable expectation (so I just _think_ it instead of saying it). I guess that, as a historic linguist, I'm bristling a bit at having my field called "all just guess work" as if it were somehow _more_ guesswork than historic costuming is! Heather (ask me about medieval Welsh prepositions ... I dare ya!) -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 12:50:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24441 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:50:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08HqKi1018766; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:52:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08HqKN7028732; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:52:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08HpRN7028211 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:51:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h08HpR912058 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:51:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.166] (tnt-1-230.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.166]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h08HpQm12044 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:51:26 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030108143012.PAWP7656.out002.verizon.net@[192.168.129.133]> References: <20030108143012.PAWP7656.out002.verizon.net@[192.168.129.133]> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Living History-questions to ponder Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:33:07 -0800 Status: RO At 9:30 AM -0500 1/8/03, wrote: > > >> Interesting discussion. In the society I belong to, and I think >>generally in the UK, "living history" is used to refer to the >>people who choose to interact with the public in a period setting >>(a camp or a historic house), as distinct from those taking part in >>battles or other displays in front of an audience. >> >> Kate Bunting > > Library, University of Derby > > This is a common distinction used by re-enacting groups, but as I >mentioned is only a small part of what the term was created to mean. Which, of course, is one of those problems with language -- those darn words never quite stay put meaning what they were created to mean. It seems to me that a number of the common meanings of terms for the general field have evolved into more specific or narrow meanings because people find having a technical term for that meaning to be very useful. For example, people seem to find it useful to have a term that distinguishes between a formal/professional "educational interpretation" function and less ... um ... "institutionalized"(?) activities. Similarly, it seems to be useful to be able to distinguish easily between activities that are designed to act out a specific historic vent as contrasted with activities that act out a general historic context and setting. As these needs (or desires) develop, the terminology either gets adapted or invented to fill them -- and the most vituperative arguments I've seen between people interested in different flavors of the general historic field seems to come in when they're using the same words with different meanings. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 13:14:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24553 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:14:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08IG4i1020865; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08IG1N7012505; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08IFEN7012033 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:15:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030108181513.36723.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:15:13 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:15:13 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > Well ... it depends on what you mean by "very little idea". We _do_ > know vastly more about historic language and pronunciation than is > typically reflected in pretty much even the most careful attempts at > historic presentation. Actually, I always happily whip out some Old English when doing Anglo-Saxon living history, either when asked to do so or when confronted with - rarely happens - 'ah but ya don't talk like 'em/don't know how to talk like 'em' etc etc. I usually smile sweetly into their totally flabberghasted faces because they can't understand a word. Then I use a sentence that is still quite similar 'thaet waes god cyning' to gently make them feel better, and they never ask again why we 'don't talk like 'em'. Very often though it is really nice, people who are genuinally interested and smile happily when I recite Beowulf or other poetry for them. The disconnect between the available language > and the re-enactment practice tends to be much more from the scarcity > of serious interaction between the historic linguistics and > re-enactment/theater communities, and the steepness of the learning > curve for those trying to understand and apply the historic knowledge > that does exist, given that you can't just say, "Here's a tape, study > and imitate it." Heather, I have been asking myself throughout your very interesteing post, about WHICH period of language study are you talking about? When the knowledge is expressed in forms like, "in > the second half of the century, the palatalization of alveolar stops > before non-low front vowels began to shift more to fricatives in > unstressed onsets" [made-up, but plausible, example] there's an extra > layer of "translation" needed for the average person to use the > information. *giggle* Oh bliss, sounds like the good old days. > I spend a lot of time trying to describe to non-specialists (in ascii > e-mail yet!) historic pronunciation of something as simple as > personal names -- there are times when you want to throw up your > hands and tell everyone "go learn IPA and then come back and talk to > me" which, of course, is an unreasonable expectation (so I just > _think_ it instead of saying it). actually, I think it IS a good idea for anyone who is remotely interested in linguistics, historic or otherwise. > I guess that, as a historic linguist, I'm bristling a bit at having > my field called "all just guess work" as if it were somehow _more_ > guesswork than historic costuming is! a) I don't think that it was meant that way (I hope...) and b) I ask again, because I am curious, which period do you specialise in? > Heather > (ask me about medieval Welsh prepositions ... I dare ya!) Nope, sorry, I think anything Welsh is at the absolute bottom of any of my interest lists. *laughs* (or is this in England-insider joke?) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 13:24:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24612 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:24:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08IQ2i1021881; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08IQ1N7018223; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f210.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08IPmN7018058 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:25:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:25:43 -0800 Received: from 151.199.133.28 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:25:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.133.28] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2003 18:25:43.0620 (UTC) FILETIME=[5AF08840:01C2B743] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:25:43 -0500 Status: RO Nancy Bradfield has a couple of 1790-1800 dresses; you might also want to try C.W. Cunnington's English Women's Clothing in the 19th century. Another possibility is the "Creole" dress popularized in Europe by Marie Antoinette (that created a furore when she had her portrait painted). Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson >On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Allison wrote: > > I'm doing a living history bit later this year for a Louisiana Purchase > > commemoration. I've looked for patterns and photos - anything from >around > > 1800. (The year is actually 1803 _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 13:45:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24708 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:45:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ib2i1022883; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ib0mM025168; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe29.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08IaSmM024678 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:36:23 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <20030107190340.92675.qmail@web21404.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2003 18:36:23.0730 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8799120:01C2B744] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:39:27 -0500 Status: RO GFD's??? > office that is slightly more casual, so I can wear > some of my garb as well, like GFD's with no tippets or > obtrusive decoration, or a walking suit. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 13:51:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24734 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:51:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ir3i1024604; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Ir1mM007955; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08Iq3mM007204 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:52:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030108185203.66120.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:52:03 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: GFD, was Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:52:03 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > GFD's??? It's the new fad that was started here: the gothic fitted dress thingy. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 13:52:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24738 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:52:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08IrJi1024651; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:53:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08IrImM008170; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:53:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe36.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08IqRmM007438 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:52:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:52:21 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2003 18:52:21.0931 (UTC) FILETIME=[139B6FB0:01C2B747] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:55:26 -0500 Status: RO I know the living history is supposed to be over, but I just want to say I love the SCA because what I like about costuming is the history, the evolution of clothing through time. Most living history groups focus on one short and precise period of time, while what I like is to jump from period to period. Though I do go beyond SCA timeframe. I'm interested in costuming between the 10th century and the 1960s... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 14:09:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24828 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:09:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08JB4i1026403; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:11:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08JB3mM020766; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe71.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08JAemM020547 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:10:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:10:34 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <20030108185203.66120.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: GFD, was Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2003 19:10:34.0945 (UTC) FILETIME=[9F182310:01C2B749] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:13:39 -0500 Status: RO > > GFD's??? > > It's the new fad that was started here: the gothic fitted dress thingy. > Oh yes, I remember now... how coud I ever have forgotten that... ;-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 14:39:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25014 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:39:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Jf3i1028864; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Jf1mM007877; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08JekmM007746 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18707 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:51:55 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: GFD, was Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements In-Reply-To: <20030108185203.66120.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:51:55 -0600 (CST) Status: RO Audrey wrote: > > GFD's??? Nicole replied: > It's the new fad that was started here: the gothic fitted dress thingy. I am seriously thinking of making for CostumeCon (my first) a black GFD to wear with heavy makeup, black nail enamel, a black lace veil, and maybe some fishnet stockings and black leather boots. It would be a Goth fitted dress, of course. I probably won't be able to get my act together in time to sew it, but where else could I pull that one? (And what else would I need to complete the outfit?) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 14:44:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25060 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:44:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Jk1i1029267; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Jk1mM010496; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Jj6mM010027 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:45:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WM8P-000MzE-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:45:05 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Subject: [h-cost] UK members - reenactors fair Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:33:41 +0000 Status: RO For the information of UK list-members. Jean >############################## > >After the problems with the venue at the November Event - notably >parking versus weather, the organiser has procured a New Venue for >the >March '03 Event. It will now take place at > >THE CONNEXION LEISURE CLUB. >LEAMINGTON ROAD >RYTON ON DUNSMORE, >COVENTRY. > >New dates for Anne Lavericks Original Re-enactors Market are 7th 8th >& 9th March 2003. >Please help us spread this information by posting it everywhere you >can think of. > >##################### -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 14:52:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25106 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:52:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Js2i1000197; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Js0mM014994; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Jr6mM014477 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:53:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WMG8-000NPO-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:53:05 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question References: <000701c2b6cb$b2ba3800$01fea8c0@livingroom> <002901c2b704$1e458560$22c2adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <002901c2b704$1e458560$22c2adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:52:02 +0000 Status: RO michaela wrote >> How were pleats done on German Renaissance dresses (I'm currently working >on >> a Cranach based dress for a client)? > >There are a few ways, and I would highly recommend using a circular base for >the skirt. It means that what ever pleat you do do it will flare well and >the pleats will fold as they do in the paintings. I did a sort of pleat on >my dress based on Mary of Hungary's gown: >http://recital.tripod.com/costume/1520.htm >And you'll see how the skirt naturally wants to fold into deep pleats. There >are a number of skirts that are clearly circular cut both pleated and non. I >think I sent some to the list a year of so ago, but I can probably find >them again:) > On first reading, I thought, that makes so much sense! Because obviously a circular skirt hangs in pleats. But how do you cut it big enough around the waist to get loads of pleats in? Jean >The pleats themselves seem to mostly be knife pleats looking at how they >fold at the hem (all folds pointing in the same direction. But some look >very padded while others simply don't;) > >Organ pleats, stacked pleats and rolled pleats are probably the best bet for >those fat round pleats you see:) > >Sorry, I'm having a hard time finding my links tonight, will post some if I >find them tomorrow;) > >michaela > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 15:07:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25201 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:07:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08K82i1001381; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08K81mM022254; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08K76mM021819 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WMTh-000OC6-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:07:05 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:05:51 +0000 Status: RO I had a serious strop a work a few weeks ago, when our Health and Welfare department arranged a "stress-down" day, saying that if you filled in their "fun" questionnaire about reducing stress, you would "qualify" to wear whatever you liked the next Friday. I pointed out that since we don't have a formal dress code, I can wear whatever I like any day I feel like it and I don't need their *@!%* permission. Probably the majority of women wear skirts or formal suits with trousers (pant suit is too American for me to say - trouser suit is too 70's) any time they're expecting to meet outside contacts, but more casual clothes are acceptable any time, and real scruff is fine if you're expecting to be clearing out files or moving offices. Civil Service, Scottish variety (we tend to be less formal than the London departments) Jean LLWatts@aol.com wrote > >Is this pretty much standard office wear now?  Are there any jobs that >require women to wear skirts anymore?  I don't really have a sense of >what's current elsewhere.  (My other friends tend to be tech types, and >can get away with wearing jeans and t-shirts to work every day.) > > >My mother and one of my aunts work religious nonprofit, and there's a >definite understanding in this part of the country that women in a >church-type setting should wear skirts.  Even if 3/4 of the females in the >congregation are wearing pants, the female getting up to give a >presentation or a sermon better be in a dress or skirt.  Now, if they're >staying around the office, I think it's personal preference -- when my aunt's >office spent two weeks cleaning out old files (petty cash receipts from the >70's and the like) she wore jeans and a sweatshirt. > >Leah -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 15:35:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29358 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:35:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Kb8i1003953; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08Kb4mM008449; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08Ka7mM007792 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWouEHjC1MufQj4XwQ1tdsglRjLVuOsI0gw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HM2E6FRT; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:35:52 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots Message-ID: <20030108.153419.-650387.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5,7,9-12,23-27 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:01:34 -0500 Status: RO <<>> Whoa, Nancy, I didn't mean to start a war. I just made the comment that it is difficult to talk to and Elizabethan about her queen when her queen hasn't even been born in the time of my persona. The problem with us all driving there in our cars is that we tend to just give up trying to make period talk because of the time problems and end up talking about mundane things. I was not critiquing SCA or any group. I have only been playing a year or so and have a hard time trying to stay in my persona at the best of times. I take exception to people who just unkindly say "if you aren't right in line with the way we play, go away". It takes a modern person a while to adapt to the middle ages (specially a 68 year old modern person). Sorry if I offended you or your group. It was unintentional. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 16:19:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29724 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:19:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08LL4i1007700; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08LL1mM002822; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hekili.k12.hi.us (hekili.k12.hi.us [165.248.1.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08LKomM002729 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from makani by hekili.k12.hi.us (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0H8E00IE6Z8OQX@hekili.k12.hi.us> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:19:36 -1000 (HST) From: annora Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question In-reply-to: To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 11:19:50 -1000 (HST) Status: RO > On first reading, I thought, that makes so much sense! Because > obviously a circular skirt hangs in pleats. But how do you cut it big > enough around the waist to get loads of pleats in? I seamed together 7 trapezoidal gores which ended up looking like a huge doughnut. It involved a bit of math but the hole circumference was the length of fabric needed for each pleat x number of pleats (which I got by dividing my waist measurement by the width of each pleat top). Although I don't have a copy, Julie Adams (no longer on this list?) did a write up on how to make organ pipe pleats. There's a picture and a pattern for a man's waffenrock with these pleats in Blanche Payne's History of Costume, first ed. IIRC, you sew a tiny tuck partway down the edge of each pleat and from the inside, tack them to a lining. That holds the pleat's shape until at least hip level and the rest of the skirt falls nicely continuing the line. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 17:23:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29964 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:23:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08MO3i1013448; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08MO1mM008822; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21205.mail.yahoo.com (web21205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08MNCmM008339 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:23:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030108222312.20326.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.252.64.5] by web21205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:23:12 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030108181513.36723.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:23:12 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- N Kipar wrote: > Actually, I always happily whip out some Old English > when doing Anglo-Saxon > living history, ... I recite Beowulf or other poetry > for them. In that case, let me make one public request before moving this off-topic discussion to private email: do you know of a decent recording of Beowulf: the original, not a translation? I'd love to know what its meant to sound like. > > Heather > > (ask me about medieval Welsh prepositions ... I > dare ya!) Dare possibly taken.... the other thing I really should do to improve my "persona" is learn to talk Welsh (or rather, Brythonic) as it was spoken in the late 6th century in what is now southern Scotland. Only I'm not a linguist, and have no idea where to start. It sounds as if you do? Again, replies off-list would probably be best? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 17:26:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29975 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:26:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08MQ2i1013633; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08MQ1mM010002; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f220.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08MP9mM009395 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:25:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:25:03 -0800 Received: from 65.65.99.235 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:25:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.65.99.235] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jan 2003 22:25:03.0866 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA502DA0:01C2B764] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:25:03 +0000 Status: RO I've been looking at pleating techniques recently, and according to my Good Housekeeping book on sewing, "sun burst" pleats would work well for circular skirts. My question is: are "sun burst pleats" the same thing as "organ pipe pleats"? If not, what's the difference? Mary/Katerine > > On first reading, I thought, that makes so much sense! Because > > obviously a circular skirt hangs in pleats. But how do you cut it big > > enough around the waist to get loads of pleats in? > > I seamed together 7 trapezoidal gores which ended up looking like >a huge doughnut. It involved a bit of math but the hole circumference was >the length of fabric needed for each pleat x number of pleats (which I got >by dividing my waist measurement by the width of each pleat top). > > Although I don't have a copy, Julie Adams (no longer on this >list?) did a write up on how to make organ pipe pleats. There's a picture >and a pattern for a man's waffenrock with these pleats in Blanche Payne's >History of Costume, first ed. > > IIRC, you sew a tiny tuck partway down the edge of each pleat and >from the inside, tack them to a lining. That holds the pleat's shape >until at least hip level and the rest of the skirt falls nicely continuing >the line. > >--annora > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 18:06:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30088 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:06:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08N82i1017095; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h08N80mM003775; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08N77mM003309 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:07:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030108230707.18009.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:07:07 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030108222312.20326.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:07:07 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Jane Williams wrote: > > In that case, let me make one public request before > moving this off-topic discussion to private email: do > you know of a decent recording of Beowulf: the > original, not a translation? I'd love to know what its > meant to sound like. Quick public answer, in case anyone else is interested. My favourite one is: Beowulf: In Old English Read by J. D. Bessinger, Jr. (audio cassette) But the title is misleading: This audio cassette has magnificent readings of several Old English poems, with only a portion of Beowulf. Still, the narrations are powerful, and this tape provides a wonderful opportunity to hear Old English spoken well. More info for the same: Beowulf Read in Old English. 1996. Read by J. B. Bessinger, Jr. Caedmon Audio CPN 1161. ISBN 0-69451-701-1. Remastered from the 1962 recording; includes Cædmon's Hymn, The Dream of the Rood, The Wanderer, The Battle of Brunanburh, The Wife's Lament (Side 1) and selected passages from Beowulf (Side 2). More passages of Beowulf: # Beowulf Read in Old English. 1983. Read by Norman Davis and Nevill Coghill. Spoken Arts 918. ISBN 0-8045-0918-2. Audiocassette, with an overview of pronunciation and meter (Side 1) and selected passages from the poem (Side 2). Available from: Spoken Arts 310 North Avenue New Rochelle, NY 10801 (914) 636-5482 For any other passages, drop me a mail, invite me to a feast, promise me some ale, and I'll read it for you, as long as as much as you like (or can bear). I am one of the nowadays few people who were treated to a very thorough (painstaking, long-time, painful?) teaching of how it is believed Old English (in its various dialects and at veraiour times in the period, before and after palatalisation) should be pronounced. Gotta love my old Prof. :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 19:19:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30288 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:19:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h090KNi1022510; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:20:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h090KJmM008357; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h090JLmM007898 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:19:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030109001921.33045.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 11:19:21 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <00cb01c2b713$b75aad70$18a231d2@valadan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:19:21 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Baralier wrote: > From: "Lisa Sinervo" > > Australian slang. > > > > Dag - Idiot or unfashionable person, someone that > doesn't fit in, but also > > a likeable, humorous fellow. A common phrase is > "oh he's such a dag" > > Daggy is an adjective of the same. > > Would possibly equate to dork but without the > intellectual stigma. Usually a > *simple* person rather than a stupid person. > > Go on. Tell them about the sheep reference Lisa... Since neither Lisa nor Baralier have done so, I'll be brave (or stupid) and tell you about what a dag is in relation to sheep. From the Australian Concise Oxford Dictionary: "dag: a lock of wool clotted with dung on the hinder parts of a sheep. (dagged, dagging) remove dags from a sheep." Sorry. Makes you see dagged clothing in another light no? :) Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 19:26:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30329 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:26:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h090S6i1023007; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h090S1mM011522; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h090RPmM011275 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:27:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030109002724.44480.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 11:27:24 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030107214843.00cdac30@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:27:24 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > The Italians, while mostly Catholic, wore something > like a cross between > pumpkin pants and pluderhosen - straight-legged, > snug-fitting, slashed, > above-the-knee shorts. I wasn't counting them > because they didn't wear one > or the other. >From my limited research into male clothing, Italian men wore both pumpkin pants and venetians. Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 19:37:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30369 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:37:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h090cBi1023733; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h090cAmM015664; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:38:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h090bomM015500 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h090bn109964 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:37:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030108163421.02b46328@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Syphilis glasses and other sources? In-Reply-To: <20030108021236.7F3D739C0@sitemail.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_31008281==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:38:04 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_31008281==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I wanted to find the perfectly round frames. Apparently they are all listed under "Ozzy" or "Lennon" and not syphilis or victorian medical and looking under gothic mostly got me goggle sites. Thanks for the tip though >; ) Gwyn At 06:12 PM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote: >If you are talking about the sort of glasses worn by Gary Oldman in >Dracula.... my sources say "go to www.darksites.com and there are numerous >different gothic websites, any of which may have what you are looking for." > >Hope this helps. > >Best, S > >Gwyn Carnegie >University of California at Davis --=====================_31008281==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I wanted to find the perfectly round frames. Apparently they are all listed under "Ozzy" or "Lennon" and not syphilis or victorian medical and looking under gothic mostly got me goggle sites. Thanks for the tip though >; )

Gwyn

At 06:12 PM 1/7/2003 -0800, you wrote:

If you are talking about the sort of glasses worn by Gary Oldman in Dracula.... my sources say "go to www.darksites.com and there are numerous different gothic websites, any of which may have what you are looking for."

Hope this helps.

Best, S

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_31008281==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 20:24:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30566 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:24:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h091Q2i1026242; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h091Q0mM003500; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20203.mail.yahoo.com (web20203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h091POmM003249 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:25:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030109012524.44460.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:25:23 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030108163421.02b46328@blue.ucdavis.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Renspecs gone? (was Syphilis glasses and other sources?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:25:23 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > I wanted to find the perfectly round frames. > Apparently they are all listed > under "Ozzy" or "Lennon" and not syphilis or > victorian medical and looking > under gothic mostly got me goggle sites. Thanks for > the tip though >; ) I was going to browse RenSpecs for you but I see that they have closed up shop. Pity, there was some really good info there. Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 8 23:32:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31351 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:32:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h094Y4i1006080; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:34:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h094Y0Co004332; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f53.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h094XuCo004264 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:33:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:33:51 -0800 Received: from 65.67.61.19 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 04:33:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.67.61.19] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: GFD, was Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jan 2003 04:33:51.0594 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F7784A0:01C2B798] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 04:33:51 +0000 Status: RO Perhaps a black "leather" collar? And DEFINITELY heavy black eye liner!! (Got a whip?) :) Mary/Katerine >I am seriously thinking of making for CostumeCon (my first) a black GFD to >wear with heavy makeup, black nail enamel, a black lace veil, and maybe >some fishnet stockings and black leather boots. It would be a Goth fitted >dress, of course. I probably won't be able to get my act together in time >to sew it, but where else could I pull that one? (And what else would I >need to complete the outfit?) > >--Robin > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 00:04:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31414 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:04:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09564i1007724; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09560Co014041; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0955gCo013926 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:05:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m169.in-tch.com [216.166.191.169]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h094nF914007 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:49:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1D034A.F6F9FCB0@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: GFD, was Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impracticalclothing requirements References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:06:18 -0700 Status: RO A whip, of course, dear! And a camera, for pictures (this, I've *got* to see!). --sue, already giggling Robin Netherton wrote: > > Audrey wrote: > > > GFD's??? > > Nicole replied: > > It's the new fad that was started here: the gothic fitted dress thingy. > > I am seriously thinking of making for CostumeCon (my first) a black GFD to > wear with heavy makeup, black nail enamel, a black lace veil, and maybe > some fishnet stockings and black leather boots. It would be a Goth fitted > dress, of course. I probably won't be able to get my act together in time > to sew it, but where else could I pull that one? (And what else would I > need to complete the outfit?) > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 00:09:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31418 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:09:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h095B1i1007936; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h095B0Co015380; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h095AiCo015302 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:10:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m169.in-tch.com [216.166.191.169]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h094sH915822 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:54:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1D0478.B46BD5BE@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation References: <20030108181513.36723.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:11:20 -0700 Status: RO I had the very great pleasure, many years ago (10? maybe), to hear someone recite a portion of Beowulf, in the appropriate dialect/language. It was jaw-dropping cool! The lady doing it was entertaining at a private feast at an SCA war (Estrella), so that atmosphere was very congenial. I've always regretted not being able to take classes in learning how to recite poetry like that (or later stuff). My English lit classes mostly treated it like, well, literature, to be read silently, and critiqued and diagrammed into the ground. Blech. --sue N Kipar wrote: > > Actually, I always happily whip out some Old English when doing Anglo-Saxon > living history, either when asked to do so or when confronted with - rarely > happens - 'ah but ya don't talk like 'em/don't know how to talk like 'em' etc > etc. I usually smile sweetly into their totally flabberghasted faces because > they can't understand a word. Then I use a sentence that is still quite similar > 'thaet waes god cyning' to gently make them feel better, and they never ask > again why we 'don't talk like 'em'. > Very often though it is really nice, people who are genuinally interested and > smile happily when I recite Beowulf or other poetry for them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 00:18:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31441 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:18:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h095K2i1008355; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h095K0Co017980; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h095J1Co017623 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m169.in-tch.com [216.166.191.169]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0952Y918807 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:02:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1D0669.A6D2ADD@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The pants/jeans thing and impractical clothing requirements References: <20030107190340.92675.qmail@web21404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:19:37 -0700 Status: RO Gothic Fitted Dresses, aka GFG's (or Gothic Fitted Gowns). --sue Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > GFD's??? > > > office that is slightly more casual, so I can wear > > some of my garb as well, like GFD's with no tippets or > > obtrusive decoration, or a walking suit. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 02:44:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23079 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:44:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h097k5i1012316; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h097k0Co023043; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (relay04.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h097jRCo022891 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2574 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2003 07:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.243.168]) (envelope-sender ) by relay04.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 9 Jan 2003 07:45:27 -0000 Message-ID: <010501c2b7b3$132695c0$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:45:26 -0500 Status: RO OK, all-- let me know what you think. http://www.thornyrose.com/work_in_progress.txt The pleats for the German are done. Due to the funky knots (Stafford knots for those that are interested.. ), I had to make the skirts in a rectangle. However, I believe that I have gotten them to fall right. Take a box pleat of 10" of fabric, double fold each side. I won't even try to explain it here- but may be able to post a hand sketch on the web site if people really want to know. Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander ----- Original Message ----- From: "annora" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question > > On first reading, I thought, that makes so much sense! Because > > obviously a circular skirt hangs in pleats. But how do you cut it big > > enough around the waist to get loads of pleats in? > > I seamed together 7 trapezoidal gores which ended up looking like > a huge doughnut. It involved a bit of math but the hole circumference was > the length of fabric needed for each pleat x number of pleats (which I got > by dividing my waist measurement by the width of each pleat top). > > Although I don't have a copy, Julie Adams (no longer on this > list?) did a write up on how to make organ pipe pleats. There's a picture > and a pattern for a man's waffenrock with these pleats in Blanche Payne's > History of Costume, first ed. > > IIRC, you sew a tiny tuck partway down the edge of each pleat and > from the inside, tack them to a lining. That holds the pleat's shape > until at least hip level and the rest of the skirt falls nicely continuing > the line. > > --annora > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 04:08:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21121 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 04:08:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h099A2i1014815; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h099A0Co013098; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0999bCo012990 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:09:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0999w110203.; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:09:58 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:09:36 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0999bCo012990 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:09:03 +0000 Status: RO Bella wrote: >Since neither Lisa nor Baralier have done so, I'll be >brave (or stupid) and tell you about what a dag is in >relation to sheep. From the Australian Concise Oxford >Dictionary: >"dag: a lock of wool clotted with dung on the hinder >parts of a sheep. (dagged, dagging) remove dags from a >sheep." I think I must have subconsciously remembered that from somewhere, because I assumed that "daggy" meant ragged or scruffy. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 05:46:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11301 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 05:46:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Am4i1017247; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 03:48:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Am1Co003686; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 03:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f14.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09AlsCo003635 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 03:47:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:34:34 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 10:34:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes at historic sites, was Authenticity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jan 2003 10:34:34.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[B3A4E440:01C2B7CA] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 02:34:34 -0800 Status: RO But I'm glad both types of interpreters were there. Also, >at Mount Vernon, the tour guides are all in khaki skirts or pants and polo >shirts, but there are a couple of people doing GOOD first-person >impressions at the site, too; that a) saves the site the trouble and >expense of finding costumes for all their volunteers, b) allows the tour >guides to talk about the changes to the site over time, and the overall >history of the site, and c) allows the people doing a first-person >impression to do it really well, because they don't have to deal with the >kinds of questions that are covered by the non-costumed tour guides. I think for an open to the public type of environment that this sounds like the perfect solution. Even with a few limited "Costumed Slots", rotating turns or something would do the fair thing, while the most talented employees would might the Faire way to deal with it. >apparently the costumes are something the docents really want to do. Well OF Course!! I'd much rather dress up, anytime, just ask my kids...the lady at the little store...the postmaster...my favorite teller. When I am old I may not ALWAYS wear purple, but I WILL always dress up. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 05:52:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11309 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 05:52:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09As2i1017398; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 03:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09As1Co004963; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 03:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09AraCo004888 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 03:53:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from p17-nas15.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.206.145] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18WaJU-0006wB-00; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 23:53:29 +1300 Message-ID: <009201c2b7cd$5a106dc0$91ceadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c2b5c4$ad5d8540$250477d8@pavilion> <3E1A45A5.753CE7B9@in-tch.com> <005c01c2b6d0$07898120$440277d8@pavilion> <00cb01c2b713$b75aad70$18a231d2@valadan> <000c01c2b723$6cddaa80$bc0377d8@pavilion> <002301c2b72a$68bb25c0$bc0377d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:53:31 +1300 Status: RO > oh no! You're not talking about the lonely kiwi jokes are u? And as a Kiwi I have to say it's lonely *Aussie* jokes;) Or if you are a Pom, lonely rural jokes.. blah blah.. much like the Blonde jokes are male/irish jokes usually... it's always "them" that are stupid right;) michaela dags have already been explained... now what meaning came first...hmmm;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 06:08:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11385 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:08:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09BA2i1017758; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 04:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09BA0Co008603; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 04:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h09B94Co008378 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 04:09:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030109110903.7560.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 11:09:03 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <010501c2b7b3$132695c0$01fea8c0@livingroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:09:03 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Lyn, you uploaded the page as text. you have to convert it into html and upload it as htm or html. Cheers. Nicole --- Lyn Greaves- home wrote: > OK, all-- let me know what you think. > > http://www.thornyrose.com/work_in_progress.txt > > The pleats for the German are done. Due to the funky knots (Stafford knots > for those that are interested.. ), I had to make the skirts in a rectangle. > However, I believe that I have gotten them to fall right. > > Take a box pleat of 10" of fabric, double fold each side. I won't even try > to explain it here- but may be able to post a hand sketch on the web site if > people really want to know. > > > Lyn Greaves > Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton > COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "annora" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:19 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question > > > > > On first reading, I thought, that makes so much sense! Because > > > obviously a circular skirt hangs in pleats. But how do you cut it big > > > enough around the waist to get loads of pleats in? > > > > I seamed together 7 trapezoidal gores which ended up looking like > > a huge doughnut. It involved a bit of math but the hole circumference was > > the length of fabric needed for each pleat x number of pleats (which I got > > by dividing my waist measurement by the width of each pleat top). > > > > Although I don't have a copy, Julie Adams (no longer on this > > list?) did a write up on how to make organ pipe pleats. There's a picture > > and a pattern for a man's waffenrock with these pleats in Blanche Payne's > > History of Costume, first ed. > > > > IIRC, you sew a tiny tuck partway down the edge of each pleat and > > from the inside, tack them to a lining. That holds the pleat's shape > > until at least hip level and the rest of the skirt falls nicely continuing > > the line. > > > > --annora > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 06:28:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11449 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:28:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09BT2i1018409; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 04:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09BT0Co013256; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 04:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09BS5Co013054 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 04:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from p17-nas15.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.206.145] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Waqw-0001SG-00; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:28:03 +1300 Message-ID: <00a201c2b7d2$2d0913e0$91ceadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <000701c2b6cb$b2ba3800$01fea8c0@livingroom> <002901c2b704$1e458560$22c2adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:27:56 +1300 Status: RO > >http://recital.tripod.com/costume/1520.htm > >And you'll see how the skirt naturally wants to fold into deep pleats. There > >are a number of skirts that are clearly circular cut both pleated and non. I > >think I sent some to the list a year of so ago, but I can probably find > >them again:) > On first reading, I thought, that makes so much sense! Because > obviously a circular skirt hangs in pleats. But how do you cut it big > enough around the waist to get loads of pleats in? Ahah! A bit of maths;) As you are cutting a big circle, or rather a circle within a circle you can plot on paper how to do it:) if you are going to do say a single box or knife pleat you'll need three times your waist measurement as each pleat takes up three times the fabric. As this will be a circle you'll need to divide it by 2pi to get the radius. Add to the radius the length from waist to floor (or hem) and that is the radius of the whole circle. Of course you will need to segment the circle, as I doubt you'll find a fabric wide enough;) This is where making a scaled diagram works. I'd make a strip of fabric 1:10 of the fabric I'll be using and cut out the full circle 1:10 the size of the real thing and cut it up and lay it on the strip til I get the best fit:) Then you can work out how much fabric you need and how to lay the pattern on the fabric. I use 1:10 scale because of metrics, if you use inches you might find 1:8 better:) Also of course you'll have to keep an eye on seam allowances:) Oh and I found my links:): Sunray pleated as Nicole suggested:) http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page1739.html http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/bilderkatalog/habs burger/abb10s.htm michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 07:55:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11972 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:55:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Cu2i1020661; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 05:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Cu0Co002605; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 05:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09CtKCo002419 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 05:55:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.37]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8G00C456K6L2@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 04:55:20 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots In-reply-to: <3E1BEE6A.16448.45D8CB5@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030109044009.04d6a9d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20030107181107.00d5bcd0@mail.frys.com> <3E1B128F.31143.1029B0D@localhost> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 04:50:51 -0800 Status: RO >While there were some who were more into the slashing, many weren't. >There are many portraits from that period which are basically >indistinguishable whether they are German or English. Also, there are >Englishmen wearing lots of slashing as well. I haven't seen any indistinguishable ones. Got any examples? > > There are two self-portraits of Albrecht Durer that show this Italian > > influence. Male garments got more similar as the century proceeded, > > if you don't count the pluderhosen that only Northern European > > Protestant men wore. Also, Anna von Cleven is not the best example, > > because while she was German, she wore dresses much more like what the > > English wore than German women from other areas of Germany, who > > dressed more like Italian women, did. > >In the portrait of Anne of Cleves by Holbein she is wearing a dress >which is typical of her homeland. Yes. >It, at least to my eyes, doesn't >look anything like what was being worn in England or France at the >time, especially in the cut of the bodice and the sleeves. I didn't mean they were identical, I meant there were similarities. These similarities include the high waist with non-pleated skirt, the bell-shaped sleeves, and the shape of her sheer cap which has those two flanges out the sides. There are parallels between these and things English women were wearing at the time. German dresses which are less like the English ones have pleated skirts, waists at the waist, and tight sleeves full of slashing, usually seen in paintings by Cranach. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 08:14:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12183 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:14:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09DF3i1021094; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09DF1Co007116; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail009.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail009.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09DEcCo007002 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:14:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail009.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h09DEWF22516 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:14:32 +1100 Message-ID: <003801c2b7e1$274c4670$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: References: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c2b5c4$ad5d8540$250477d8@pavilion> <3E1A45A5.753CE7B9@in-tch.com> <005c01c2b6d0$07898120$440277d8@pavilion> <00cb01c2b713$b75aad70$18a231d2@valadan> <000c01c2b723$6cddaa80$bc0377d8@pavilion> <002301c2b72a$68bb25c0$bc0377d8@pavilion> <009201c2b7cd$5a106dc0$91ceadcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:11:19 +1100 Status: RO From: "michaela" > > oh no! You're not talking about the lonely kiwi jokes are u? > > And as a Kiwi I have to say it's lonely *Aussie* jokes;) Of course I'd *never* ever make jokes about anyone living off the coast of Australia :-) Okay maybe I would :-) But only in jest. Kiwi-baiting is an Australian National Past-time (tm). And I know the reverse applies. > Or if you are a Pom, lonely rural jokes.. blah blah.. much like the Blonde > jokes are male/irish jokes usually... it's always "them" that are stupid > right;) It's always easier that way. I mean after all, you don't need to make jokes about Americans they do it quite alright for themselves :-) Baralier -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 08:18:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12198 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:18:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09DJ2i1021178; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09DJ1Co007964; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (mta6-svc.business.ntl.com [62.253.164.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09DILCo007802 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:18:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([80.1.28.153]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030109131819.IYXA21179.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@localhost> for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:18:19 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: marcus findlay-arthur To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <072701c2b64b$20858960$226e4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Message-Id: <9293630B-23DC-11D7-8D2B-0003936A9570@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Subject: [h-cost] Re; OT Tansey Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:13:48 +0000 Status: RO Mel, Thanks for the advice - I've just got back online after 24hrs.I'd prefer to avoid the stuff like Tansy as I've a mischievous cat and couldn't cope with anything happening to her. And yes I'm in the UK so I'll follow-up on your leads a bit later to day.Many many sincere thanks. Marcus. On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 12:48 pm, Melanie Wilson wrote: > Tansey also for the rodent, but handle with care, it is not as safe for > humans as the others > > > > Mel > > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the > Company, unless specifically stated > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 08:52:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12296 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:52:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Dr3i1022507; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:53:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Dr1Co016027; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09DqqCo015963 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a257.in-tch.com [66.62.107.57]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h09DaP907980 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:36:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1D7ED8.77A24834@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in References: <20030109110903.7560.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 06:53:28 -0700 Status: RO Ahhh...*that's* what happened! I couldn't figure it out.... --sue N Kipar wrote: > > Lyn, you uploaded the page as text. you have to convert it into html and upload > it as htm or html. > > Cheers. > > Nicole > > --- Lyn Greaves- home wrote: > OK, all-- let me know > what you think. > > > > http://www.thornyrose.com/work_in_progress.txt _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 08:54:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12333 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Dt2i1022645; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Dt1Co016642; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09DsKCo016410 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:54:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a257.in-tch.com [66.62.107.57]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h09Dbr908394 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:37:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1D7F31.D5774FEA@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy References: <20030106200952.89268.qmail@web21406.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c2b5c4$ad5d8540$250477d8@pavilion> <3E1A45A5.753CE7B9@in-tch.com> <005c01c2b6d0$07898120$440277d8@pavilion> <00cb01c2b713$b75aad70$18a231d2@valadan> <000c01c2b723$6cddaa80$bc0377d8@pavilion> <002301c2b72a$68bb25c0$bc0377d8@pavilion> <009201c2b7cd$5a106dc0$91ceadcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 06:54:57 -0700 Status: RO Check in the OED, maybe? --sue, who actually knew the sheep reference, but somehow didn't apply it to modern clothing michaela wrote: > > dags have already been explained... now what meaning came first...hmmm;) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 09:01:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12370 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:01:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09E22i1022993; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09E21Co018575; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf21bis.bellsouth.net (mail221.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09E1MCo018359 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from sarah ([66.20.171.11]) by imf21bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20030109140309.LOFB20432.imf21bis.bellsouth.net@sarah> for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:03:09 -0500 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3E1D7ED8.77A24834@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:00:36 -0500 Status: RO Came up fine here when I clicked the link... The dress is gorgeous... Apollonia Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi Kingdom of Atlantia www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia **Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.** -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:53 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in Ahhh...*that's* what happened! I couldn't figure it out.... --sue N Kipar wrote: > > Lyn, you uploaded the page as text. you have to convert it into html and upload > it as htm or html. > > Cheers. > > Nicole > > --- Lyn Greaves- home wrote: > OK, all-- let me know > what you think. > > > > http://www.thornyrose.com/work_in_progress.txt _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 09:09:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12391 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:09:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09E95i1023267; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:09:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09E91Co020573; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21206.mail.yahoo.com (web21206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h09E8lCo020467 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:08:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030109140847.34670.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [57.66.41.170] by web21206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:08:47 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:08:47 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO It's an HTML page that's got a name ending in TXT. Works for me in MSIE, probably wouldn't work in Netscape. You just need to rename it to an extension like HTM or HTML and it should be fine for everyone. --- Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi wrote: > Came up fine here when I clicked the link... > > Lyn, you uploaded the page as text. you have to > convert it into html and > upload > > it as htm or html. > > > http://www.thornyrose.com/work_in_progress.txt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 09:24:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12492 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:24:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09EP5i1023833; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:25:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09EP3Co025005; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09EOtCo024952 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:24:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18Wdd8-0006X4-00; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:25:58 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 18Wdc5-0004TW-00; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:24:53 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:24:53 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Past Patterns has a new empire style dress pattern available: #031: Circa 1796-1806 Lewis & Clark Era: Empire Gown http://www.pastpatterns.com/031.html Looks pretty cute. I know she is working on a pattern for an early pair of stays too, from the same period but that pattern is not ready yet. Katy On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Nancy Kiel wrote: >Nancy Bradfield has a couple of 1790-1800 dresses; you might also want to >try C.W. Cunnington's English Women's Clothing in the 19th century. Another >possibility is the "Creole" dress popularized in Europe by Marie Antoinette >(that created a furore when she had her portrait painted). > > > >Nancy Kiel >nancy_kiel@hotmail.com >A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson > >>On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Allison wrote: >> > I'm doing a living history bit later this year for a Louisiana Purchase >> > commemoration. I've looked for patterns and photos - anything from >>around >> > 1800. (The year is actually 1803 > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 09:28:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12506 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:28:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09ET2i1023985; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09ET1Co026210; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h09ESYCo026072 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:28:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030109142834.12747.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:28:34 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030109140847.34670.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:28:34 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Yep, that's what I meant but I overcomplicated it *L* Actually, if you use netscape, as a viewer and not the evil fiend MSIE, just hit 'edit page' save it as html to your hardrive and then open that file, works fine. Nicole --- Jane Williams wrote: > It's an HTML page that's got a name ending in TXT. > Works for me in MSIE, probably wouldn't work in > Netscape. You just need to rename it to an extension > like HTM or HTML and it should be fine for everyone. > > --- Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi > wrote: > > > Came up fine here when I clicked the link... > > > > Lyn, you uploaded the page as text. you have to > > convert it into html and > > upload > > > it as htm or html. > > > > > http://www.thornyrose.com/work_in_progress.txt > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 09:38:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12570 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:38:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ed4i1024537; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:39:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ed2Co029398; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09EcOCo029219 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:38:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-002-237.jps.net ([216.119.2.237] helo=pavilion) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Wdp9-00040w-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 06:38:23 -0800 Message-ID: <001401c2b7ed$cf8187e0$ed0277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 06:45:50 -0800 Status: RO Thanks for the reference. I had not heard that before but it makes a great deal of sense. No, one does not want to look daggy although the word is often used with affection. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:09 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy > Bella wrote: > >Since neither Lisa nor Baralier have done so, I'll be > >brave (or stupid) and tell you about what a dag is in > >relation to sheep. From the Australian Concise Oxford > >Dictionary: > > >"dag: a lock of wool clotted with dung on the hinder > >parts of a sheep. (dagged, dagging) remove dags from a > >sheep." > > I think I must have subconsciously remembered that from somewhere, because I assumed that "daggy" meant ragged or scruffy. > > > > > > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 09:40:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12579 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:40:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ef1i1024642; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ef0Co000192; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09EeECo029799 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:40:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-1-73.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.1.73] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Wdqv-0005RV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:40:13 +0000 Message-ID: <004701c2b7ed$9b972020$490124d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Fulling wool Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:44:26 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, Fresh from my triumphs at the Liberty's fabric sale I am embarking on a houpelande; not least because it is absolutely freezing. The vast expanses of glass here in the Barbican are nice to look out of but are not conducive to keeping the central heating where it belongs, ie here. The problem with fulling is that I am not sure what it will do to my greatly reduced but still expensive satin backed wools. These are densely woven women's suitings and so I am not sure whether they have been fulled to anything like the extent that expensive men's suitings are. They will not be washed in the future once made up; fur doesn't like that sort of thing. So, advice please? best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 09:42:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12597 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:42:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Eh4i1024776; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Eh2Co001310; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Eg0Co000734 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a257.in-tch.com [66.62.107.57]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h09EPX925109 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:25:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1D8A5C.38CE70D8@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 07:42:36 -0700 Status: RO Hey, you're right. That *is* cute! It'd be a lot of fun to work up for all the ongoing Lewis-and-Clark stuff that's going on right now. (I'm in a part of Montana they actually traveled through and camped near, so it's a big deal, locally.) I like her discussion about the colored threads being at right angles to the selvedge--I've seen modern upholstery/decorating fabrics with the patterns oriented this way. Since the fabrics done with linen warp, and cotton weft, this would mean that the colored threads are part of the weft, yes? Perhaps cotton's easier to dye than linen? I've heard of mixed cotton/linen fabrics, before, done with one fiber as the warp, and the other, the weft...but why? Were there strength issues with the threads or something? Were striped fabrics at that time striped going with the warp, or the weft? or both? --sue, waaaay too curious for her own good! Katy Bishop wrote: > > Past Patterns has a new empire style dress pattern available: > > #031: Circa 1796-1806 Lewis & Clark Era: Empire Gown > http://www.pastpatterns.com/031.html > > Looks pretty cute. I know she is working on a pattern for an early pair > of stays too, from the same period but that pattern is not ready yet. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 09:43:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12604 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:43:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ei2i1024842; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ei1Co001644; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09EhOCo001389 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:43:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a257.in-tch.com [66.62.107.57]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h09EQv925657 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:26:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1D8AB0.A2816C1D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in References: <20030109140847.34670.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 07:44:00 -0700 Status: RO Oh! Okay....Learn something new everyday on this list! I'll forward it to myself at work, where we've got IE (I use Netscape at home). Thanks. --Sue Jane Williams wrote: > > It's an HTML page that's got a name ending in TXT. > Works for me in MSIE, probably wouldn't work in > Netscape. You just need to rename it to an extension > like HTM or HTML and it should be fine for everyone. > > --- Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi > wrote: > > > Came up fine here when I clicked the link... > > > > Lyn, you uploaded the page as text. you have to > > convert it into html and > > upload > > > it as htm or html. > > > > > http://www.thornyrose.com/work_in_progress.txt _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 11:12:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13326 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:12:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09GD5i1001730; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:13:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09GD2Co012381; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09GCpCo012298 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from modem-3378.lemur.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.141.50] helo=lance5) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WfIY-0002pJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:12:50 +0000 From: "Freyalyn Close-Hainsworth" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fulling wool Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030109144400.1643.93961.Mailman@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:14:45 -0000 Status: RO > The problem with fulling is that I am not sure what it will do to my > greatly reduced but still expensive satin backed wools. These are > densely woven women's suitings and so I am not sure whether they have > been fulled to anything like the extent that expensive men's suitings > are. They will not be washed in the future once made up; fur doesn't > like that sort of thing. So, advice please? > best wishes > Stevie Cut a small piece in a regular shape, measure it exactly, then wash vigourously (neaten edges if likely to fray). Then measure. It's worth sacrificing a small piece (at least 8" square if not bigger to see what will happen. Good luck! Freyalyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 11:31:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13427 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:31:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09GW4i1003535; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09GW1Co022892; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09GV1Co022297 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from PARIS (12-245-182-60.client.attbi.com[12.245.182.60]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003010916305600100ppsvre>; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:30:56 +0000 From: "Emily Hartman" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? Message-ID: <000401c2b7fc$70f5be30$3cb6f50c@PARIS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3E1D8A5C.38CE70D8@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:30:37 -0500 Status: RO Sue, >From what I've read and heard from Sally Queen in her lectures on textiles for colonial clothing (and her great swatchbook of the same name), linen was usually the warp because of its strength. I've never heard/read anything about cotton being easier to dye than linen as they're both cellulose fibers and so both more difficult to dye than protein-based fibers like silk and wool. (But then dying isn't my specialty...or is it dye-ing?) Fustian contained a wide range of textiles including, sometimes, corduroy (as a random sidenote) Emily > Since the fabrics done with linen warp, and cotton weft, this would mean > that the colored threads are part of the weft, yes? Perhaps cotton's > easier to dye than linen? > I've heard of mixed cotton/linen fabrics, before, done with one fiber as > the warp, and the other, the weft...but why? Were there strength issues > with the threads or something? > Were striped fabrics at that time striped going with the warp, or the > weft? or both? > --sue, waaaay too curious for her own good! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 11:34:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13434 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:34:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09GYHi1003770; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09GY2Co024053; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09GX4Co023494 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:33:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip159.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.159]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h09GWu811004 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:32:57 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots Message-ID: <3E1D33EE.9561.9554A87@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E1BEE6A.16448.45D8CB5@localhost> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20030109044009.04d6a9d0@mail.frys.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 08:33:50 -0800 Status: RO > >While there were some who were more into the slashing, many weren't. > >There are many portraits from that period which are basically > >indistinguishable whether they are German or English. Also, there are > >Englishmen wearing lots of slashing as well. > > I haven't seen any indistinguishable ones. Got any examples? Pull any Holbein book and you can usually find several. For example, look at the Englishman Thomas More and compare him to the Germans Nichlaus Kratzer and Georg Gisze or even the Portrait of the Elector John the Steadfast and Margrave Albrecht of Brandenburg, Duke of Prussia (from Cranach.) Yes, there are slashed clothing (such as John Frederic the Magnanimous when he was Heir Apparent and many others) but you also see slashed clothing in the English menswear such as on Henry VIII. I suspect if we had more portraits of young men in England such as we have of the Italians and Germans, we'd see even more of it. ;) > Yes. > > >It, at least to my eyes, doesn't > >look anything like what was being worn in England or France at the > >time, especially in the cut of the bodice and the sleeves. > > I didn't mean they were identical, I meant there were similarities. > These similarities include the high waist with non-pleated skirt, the > bell-shaped sleeves, and the shape of her sheer cap which has those > two flanges out the sides. How odd. Most of the English ones from the early sixteen century that I've seen have had normal waist (almost always with a point), squared neckline, turned back sleeves without anything at the upper arm (even if it had started out as a "bell shape") showing the foresleeve and, with the exception of Holbein's drawing of the woman trying to keep her hem out of the mud, are wearing some form of either the French Hood or the English Hood which bears no true relationship to the flanged sheer cap. That cap design (from the sheer undercap to the part over it) is from her Homeland. It has more roots there than in either Italy or England. There are parallels between these and > things English women were wearing at the time. German dresses which > are less like the English ones have pleated skirts, waists at the > waist, and tight sleeves full of slashing, usually seen in paintings > by Cranach. Even in Cranach not all the skirts are pleated (and you can find non- pleated dresses and pleated ones in the same paintings.) And the bodice designs in Cranach are much more like the bodice design of Anne of Cleves. The point where this started, however, is that there is far more similarity in this period between the mens clothes from various areas than between the women's clothes. The men may be nearly indistinguishable (except for some of the younger more "avant garde" men) but the women's tend to be more regionalized (with perhaps an influence from elsewhere perhaps.) Anne herself noted the major differences between what was worn in England and what was worn in her Homeland. She deliberately changed over to wearing "English clothes" when she came to England (as opposed to other queens who continued to wear clothes reminiscent of their former home which ended up changing the styles of their adopted homes.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 12:58:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13771 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:58:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Hw5i1011759; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:58:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Hw2cb012392; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09HvOcb012026 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:57:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22973 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:08:37 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fulling wool In-Reply-To: <004701c2b7ed$9b972020$490124d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:08:37 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > The problem with fulling is that I am not sure what it will do to my > greatly reduced but still expensive satin backed wools. These are > densely woven women's suitings and so I am not sure whether they have > been fulled to anything like the extent that expensive men's suitings > are. They will not be washed in the future once made up; fur doesn't > like that sort of thing. So, advice please? I'd recommend a test as someone else already wrote ... but if it's densely woven and not going to be washed later, you can probably manage fine without fulling. Do you know what the satin backing is made of? I've seen wool backed with poly or acetate for a satin finish. Is that what you mean? Is the backing bonded on or woven in as a second layer? I don't know if satin-backed wool could have been made in the early 15th century, but even if it was it may not have been fulled -- not all medieval wools were fulled. And if it wasn't, you're just going for appearance anyway, and a dense weave should do fine. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 13:37:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13976 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:37:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09IbFi1015696; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09IbDVc005654; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:37:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09IaaVc005197 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:36:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 28572 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2003 18:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.243.168]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 9 Jan 2003 18:36:31 -0000 Message-ID: <002e01c2b80e$05b3fd50$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: <20030109110903.7560.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:36:27 -0500 Status: RO I got access no problem, but here's another link. http://www.thornyrose.com/work_in_progress.html Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating solution, I think- final pleats in > Lyn, you uploaded the page as text. you have to convert it into html and upload > it as htm or html. > > Cheers. > > Nicole > > --- Lyn Greaves- home wrote: > OK, all-- let me know > what you think. > > > > http://www.thornyrose.com/work_in_progress.txt > > > > The pleats for the German are done. Due to the funky knots (Stafford knots > > for those that are interested.. ), I had to make the skirts in a rectangle. > > However, I believe that I have gotten them to fall right. > > > > Take a box pleat of 10" of fabric, double fold each side. I won't even try > > to explain it here- but may be able to post a hand sketch on the web site if > > people really want to know. > > > > > > Lyn Greaves > > Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton > > COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "annora" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:19 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleating question > > > > > > > > On first reading, I thought, that makes so much sense! Because > > > > obviously a circular skirt hangs in pleats. But how do you cut it big > > > > enough around the waist to get loads of pleats in? > > > > > > I seamed together 7 trapezoidal gores which ended up looking like > > > a huge doughnut. It involved a bit of math but the hole circumference was > > > the length of fabric needed for each pleat x number of pleats (which I got > > > by dividing my waist measurement by the width of each pleat top). > > > > > > Although I don't have a copy, Julie Adams (no longer on this > > > list?) did a write up on how to make organ pipe pleats. There's a picture > > > and a pattern for a man's waffenrock with these pleats in Blanche Payne's > > > History of Costume, first ed. > > > > > > IIRC, you sew a tiny tuck partway down the edge of each pleat and > > > from the inside, tack them to a lining. That holds the pleat's shape > > > until at least hip level and the rest of the skirt falls nicely continuing > > > the line. > > > > > > --annora > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 14:06:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14100 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:06:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09J68i1018570; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09J63Vc022769; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from lutetium.btinternet.com (lutetium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09J4tVc022053 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:04:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-1-73.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.1.73] helo=dan) by lutetium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Whz3-0006D5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 19:04:54 +0000 Message-ID: <007101c2b812$94d05ac0$490124d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fulling wool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:09:06 -0000 Status: RO Robin wrote > > On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > > > The problem with fulling is that I am not sure what it will do to my > > greatly reduced but still expensive satin backed wools. > I'd recommend a test as someone else already wrote ... but if it's densely > woven and not going to be washed later, you can probably manage fine > without fulling. > > Do you know what the satin backing is made of? My apologies; I meant that one face of the wool is dull and the other side is shiny. A little like crepe back satin in silk, though the wool is much smoother on its non-satin side than crepe is. It is just one layer of wool, however. I'd call it wool satin, but that also gets confusing... I have some anonymous English wool, and some Pierre Cardin and Enrico Coveri, both woven in Italy, in shades which seem acceptable for the period; teal, greens and plum. I've done some experimenting with the cloths and some types of fur, and I aim to test the finished article against the portraits, some of which we have discussed recently. If you have any recommendations as to construction I should be most interested. And, having decided to try some test pieces, I discovered that our water supply has been cut off due to burst pipes. The City of London isn't really geared up to deal with snow storms, much less frozen ground, and horror, frozen water supplies. . best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 14:43:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14358 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:43:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Jh8i1022145; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Jh3Vc013899; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail4.kc.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09JgOVc013573 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:42:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail4.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:37:30 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030109134454.00a042e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030105121521.03f2ce48@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 13:45:33 -0600 Status: RO At 12:21 PM 1/5/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:03:13 -0600, Rebecca Schmitt > wrote: > >>The web address for the Art Institute is www.artic.edu >>There was a large exhibit catalogue (which was $60) for the Medici exhibit. >>This was, of course, rather extensive, with lots of stuff that was only >>shown in Florence or Detroit. Definitely drool-worthy. > >Do you by any chance recall any of the bibliographic information on that >catalogue? The online store has no related book or catalogue in that price >range, and I'd be interested in seeing if my local discounter (which has a >vast collection of art books) might have a copy for sale... Try this URL: http://www.artinstituteshop.org/item.asp?catID=2&subcatID=9&productID=987 Sheryl Nance-Durst _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 15:00:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14434 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:00:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09K13i1023965; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09K11Vc023525; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us (cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us [192.154.67.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09K03Vc022968 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (mail.pds.charlotte.nc.us [192.154.67.195]) by cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h09K07G11469 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:00:07 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago From: Grace Morris To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030109134454.00a042e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:00:05 -0500 Status: RO Since I won't make it to Chicago by Feb. 2, where does it go next? Probably Italy.... Jessamyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 15:24:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14517 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:23:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09KO4i1026601; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:24:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09KO1Vc006841; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09KNVVc006563 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:23:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WjD9-0007Xg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:23:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3E1DDA47.D77756E4@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: and here we go again, was Re: [h-cost] Authenticity Good & Bad References: <20030107105906.53749.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:23:35 -0600 Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > > > But it's not period to tell someone they're not period. > > Agreed. > > But... > > We have had this same discussion for goodness knows how many times. Is it just > me and am I the only one who wants to scream "for crying out loud, can't we > just all let everyone do what they want to do?" I am tired of hearing how > 'mean' people are who want to be very authentic to those who don't; I am tired > of hearing how 'mean' people are who don't want to be very authentic to those > who are. I know it happens out there, but I for one would like to live with the > notion of Live and Let Live! Quite honestly, I've been deleting the "authenticity" threads unread. This one caught my eye. As far as the lists goes, I think one of the issues is that everyone has a differing level of "correctness" they want to achieve. Therefore, when someone asks a question the replies vary based on the responder's costuming level. When asking a question I think it's helpful to note what kind of detail you want (ie, "I need a quickie costume for a fancy dress party" or "I want to do this as correctly as possible"). --Charlene -- It is more shameful to distrust one's friends than to be deceived by them. --François de la Rochefoucauld _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 15:41:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14587 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:41:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Kf4i1028387; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Kf2Vc016584; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net (mail3.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09KeGVc016157 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from wkslnng238 (brick.voyager.net [209.153.128.248]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h09KeFW91050 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:40:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001c01c2b827$d0aa9230$410110ac@wkslnng238> From: "Emily H." To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:41:05 -0600 Status: RO Jessamyn, It's actually going to the Detroit Institute of Arts next. It'll be in Detroit from March 16 to June 8th 2003. And perhaps surprisingly, Detroit has a very nice art museum...it's definitely worth the trip! Emily > Since I won't make it to Chicago by Feb. 2, where does it go next? Probably > Italy.... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 16:01:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14651 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:01:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09L19i1000667; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09L11Vc028002; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09L0bVc027744 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:00:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 30436 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2003 21:00:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.243.168]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 9 Jan 2003 21:00:36 -0000 Message-ID: <010f01c2b822$27285a30$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: <001c01c2b827$d0aa9230$410110ac@wkslnng238> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:00:34 -0500 Status: RO OK, since I won't be able to hit EITHER of these-- any idea if I've missed it being in New York? Or where I can look it up? Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily H." To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago > Jessamyn, > > It's actually going to the Detroit Institute of Arts next. It'll be in > Detroit from March 16 to June 8th 2003. And perhaps surprisingly, Detroit > has a very nice art museum...it's definitely worth the trip! > > > Emily > > > Since I won't make it to Chicago by Feb. 2, where does it go next? > Probably > > Italy.... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 16:07:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14686 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:07:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09L83i1001562; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09L80Vc002466; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us (cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us [192.154.67.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09L78Vc001944 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (mail.pds.charlotte.nc.us [192.154.67.195]) by cs14.pds.charlotte.nc.us (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h09L7CG13535 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:07:12 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago From: Grace Morris To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001c01c2b827$d0aa9230$410110ac@wkslnng238> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:07:09 -0500 Status: RO Thanks! Maybe I can make it by then!! Jessamyn On 1/9/03 4:41 PM, "Emily H." wrote: > Jessamyn, > > It's actually going to the Detroit Institute of Arts next. It'll be in > Detroit from March 16 to June 8th 2003. And perhaps surprisingly, Detroit > has a very nice art museum...it's definitely worth the trip! > > > Emily > >> Since I won't make it to Chicago by Feb. 2, where does it go next? > Probably >> Italy.... >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 16:37:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14856 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:37:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Lb8i1004433; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Lb5Vc019679; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09LapVc019518 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:36:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WkM5-0000P5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 13:36:50 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000001c2b827$3e831ad0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030108185203.66120.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Help with French translation on fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:36:59 -0700 Status: RO Through a friend of a friend I have some extra fabric that was supposedly used at the Biltmore for decoration. It is done in "renaissance" green, blue red etc and depicts a man and woman on either side of a ship. It has a saying across the top (like might have been used for heraldry) that says: "Si na bles n'a dessouby (the last two letters of that word are a guess since the lettering is weird-but I think it is the word:dessous) les cieuix je ne." The best I can do is: "So I do not wound under the skys" Don't laugh too hard!! Any help is appreciated. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 16:39:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14871 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:39:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ld2i1004644; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ld1Vc020817; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m3.nyc.untd.com (m3.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h09LcpVc020699 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:38:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"dBh/I51fsHv9NCoYYJioTMQc2Avxj8GRmz+gIZDSvSimoBM8qTBy2w=="> Received: (from spynnere@juno.com) by m3.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HM445YV5; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:38:34 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Syphilis glasses Message-ID: <20030109.163729.1252.1.spynnere@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_3b28.6730.5da0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-6,8-11,13-14,18-32767 From: spynnere@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:37:27 -0500 Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_3b28.6730.5da0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Because no-one else has asked, what are syphilis glasses??? I assume they had a particular function, what was it?? Elizabeth On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:38:04 -0800 Gwyn Carnegie writes: I wanted to find the perfectly round frames. Apparently they are all listed under "Ozzy" or "Lennon" and not syphilis or victorian medical and looking under gothic mostly got me goggle sites. Thanks for the tip though >; ) ----__JNP_000_3b28.6730.5da0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  Because no-one else has asked, what are syphilis=20 glasses???  I assume they had a particular function, what was=20 it??
 
   Elizabeth  
 
On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:38:04 -0800 Gwyn Carnegie <gacarnegie@ucdavis.edu>=20 writes:

I wanted to find the perfectly round frames. Apparently they are= all=20 listed under "Ozzy" or "Lennon" and not syphilis or victorian medical and= =20 looking under gothic mostly got me goggle sites. Thanks for the tip = though=20 >; )

----__JNP_000_3b28.6730.5da0-- ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 16:53:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14988 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:53:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ls4i1005887; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ls1Pi027511; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09LrdPi027134 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:53:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F93112EBE for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:42:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BC4A5112E84 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:42:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0de201c2b827$cef25ae0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <001c01c2b827$d0aa9230$410110ac@wkslnng238> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:41:02 -0500 Status: RO Though I haven't been there in many, many moons, the Detroit Institute of Arts is indeed a very fine museum. And although it is MUCH smaller, the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor also has a nice little museum. Not comprehensive by any means, but a pleasant place to spend an afternoon. My dad and I went when they were having a very nice Asian exhibit. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily H." To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago > Jessamyn, > > It's actually going to the Detroit Institute of Arts next. It'll be in > Detroit from March 16 to June 8th 2003. And perhaps surprisingly, Detroit > has a very nice art museum...it's definitely worth the trip! > > > Emily > > > Since I won't make it to Chicago by Feb. 2, where does it go next? > Probably > > Italy.... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 16:54:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14996 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:54:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Lt2i1006041; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Lt1Pi028149; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09LsKPi027649 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:54:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <20030109215414002000hebte>; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:54:14 +0000 Message-ID: <00d201c2b82a$3ac82e50$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <000001c2b827$3e831ad0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with French translation on fabric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:52:56 -0600 Status: RO Are you sure that is French? Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:36 PM Subject: [h-cost] Help with French translation on fabric > Through a friend of a friend I have some extra fabric that was > supposedly used at the Biltmore for decoration. It is done in > "renaissance" green, blue red etc and depicts a man and woman on either > side of a ship. It has a saying across the top (like might have been > used for heraldry) that says: > > "Si na bles n'a dessouby (the last two letters of that word are a guess > since the lettering is weird-but I think it is the word:dessous) les > cieuix je ne." > > > The best I can do is: > > "So I do not wound under the skys" > > Don't laugh too hard!! Any help is appreciated. > > Sg > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 17:24:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15176 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:24:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09MO3i1009267; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09MO1Pi015795; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09MNhPi015599 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-250-197.s451.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.250.197] helo=rcn.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18Wl5S-0003PD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 17:23:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3E1DF672.44257925@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20030109002801.11520.34832.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: GFD Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 17:23:46 -0500 Status: RO Dear Robin, > Audrey wrote: > > > GFD's??? > Nicole replied:> > It's the new fad that was started here: the gothic fitted dress thingy. > I am seriously thinking of making for CostumeCon (my first) a black GFD > to wear with heavy makeup, black nail enamel, a black lace veil, and > maybe some fishnet stockings and black leather boots. It would be a Goth > fitted dress, of course. I probably won't be able to get my act together > in time to sew it, but where else could I pull that one? (And what else > would I need to complete the outfit?) I hope you do get the outfit done in time for Costume-Con. Please wear it on the day when the Future Fashion Show takes place (I think it may be Sunday). I dearly want a shot of your outfit & the Fairy Gothmother together, if only a mental snapshot. The perfect thing to complete any Goth outfit is ATTITUDE & plenty of it. Ann in CT going to Costume-Con, too, my 8th Counselor of Colonia has a gown based on the Bocksten bog man's tunic. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 17:36:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15242 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:36:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Mb3i1011407; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Mb1Pi023236; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09MapPi023161 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:36:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h09Mam7S050979 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:36:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301092236.h09Mam7S050979@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Kevin & Mara Riley" at Jan 08, 2003 08:18:43 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:36:48 -0800 (PST) Status: RO this sounds really interesting! do you know of any photos online of similar corset? Is the paper you have something that can be shared? or could you share your source for it? .heather. > > Hi, Allison, > I've got a copy of a paper on a set of very late 18th c. 'transitional' > stays from the Churchill House in England. > > These stays are shaped like shortened 18th c. stays, but they only > have boning in the center front (where they lace), the center back, and > possibly along the angled side seam (there are boning channels, but the > boning is missing). The stays have tabs, but they are unboned. The > interesting thing about these stays is that they have one triangular bust > gusset on each side. These stays also have shoulder straps, which they'd > have to, in order to stay up (being high-waisted). They are dated ca. > 1795 to 1810, I think. > > I made a set for myself last summer and wore them with a War of 1812 > period outfit (petticoat bodice and shortwaisted shortgown); they were > very comfortable. My friend Kate Johnson made a set for herself and said > they were so comfortable she could sleep in them. She's also turned up > several other examples in costume collections, for a paper she presented > this fall, so I think they weren't uncommon in the last decade of the 18th > c. when fashions were transitioning from earlier styles to the > high-waisted Regency styles. To my knowledge, there isn't a pattern > available for this style, though. > > I drafted mine up using Drea's Elizabethan Corset Pattern Generator, but > used my under-bust measurement instead of bust measurement for the top > dimension, since I was adding the gussets to accomodate the bustline. > > Cheers, > Mara > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Allison wrote: > > I'm doing a living history bit later this year for a Louisiana Purchase > > commemoration. I've looked for patterns and photos - anything from around > > 1800. (The year is actually 1803.) But I've tumbled into what appears to > > be the Bermuda Triangle of costume research. The documentable research > > seems to jump from late 1700's to 1810-ish, the Napoleonic/Regency period. > > Can't find much on the in-between years. The period I need is after the > > post-French Revolution styles, but before the structured foundations of the > > Regency styles. I think I'll need some sort of underpinnings to give the > > right silhouette, but still remain soft and flowy-Greek and feminine. And > > still have two bosoms, not a monobosom as in the 18th c. corsets. I've > > looked at Sense and Sensibility patterns; they seem to be the best > > available, but do I really need a pattern? I can modify a princess-seam > > back from another pattern to make the bodice, the sleeves can also be > > modified from an existing pattern, and the skirts are very simple. But I > > can't find a corset pattern. Does one exist? Looks like it should be a > > long-line non-constricting garment, with a center busk, and a good > > strong/stiff upper back, to give the erect posture, but aside from that I am > > clueless! (I'm pretty sure I will need a corset of some sort - I am > > "fluffy" with a DD bust, and I don't want to scare small children.) > > > > Any advice? > > > > Allison > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 17:45:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15289 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:45:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Mj4i1012142; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Mj1Pi028253; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09MiGPi027821 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:44:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23988 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:55:30 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E1DF672.44257925@rcn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Costume Con, was GFD Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:55:30 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Catelli wrote: > Ann in CT > going to Costume-Con, too, my 8th I have just had my speaking schedule confirmed for CostumeCon (thanks, Karen!). I will be giving five hours of lectures! If I have any breath left over I will want to socialize. Who else will be there? Teddy and Mel are slated to speak, and Stephen Bergdahl, and others from this list that I'm not remembering right now and am too pressed to go look up, but you can ... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 17:59:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15347 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:59:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Mx3i1013515; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Mx0Ra006332; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Mw5Ra005822 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:58:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip185.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.185]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h09Mw111014580 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:58:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20021229055942.04266fd0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] What'd you get for Christmas? In-Reply-To: <001001c2ae30$aaff3370$822daf40@angelap3a8d978> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021226193525.00adc690@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 05:59:58 -0500 Status: RO At 09:19 PM 12/27/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I got a Uniquely You dress form! > >angela Congrats; enjoy! -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 18:02:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15377 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:02:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09N31i1013958; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09N30Ra008854; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09N27Ra008336 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.238]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8G008M0YNGCU@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:02:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-connecting some dots In-reply-to: <3E1D33EE.9561.9554A87@localhost> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030109145841.051f2100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20030109044009.04d6a9d0@mail.frys.com> <3E1BEE6A.16448.45D8CB5@localhost> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:02:00 -0800 Status: RO I guess my background of doing German comes out here. I don't find German and English mens' clothes as similar as you do, probably because I am seeing all the differences I am trying to describe. And I'm seeing similarities between the English dresses and those from the Cologne area, where Anna von Cleven came from, where you are focusing on the differences. I seem to be unable to make my point, even with examples. I give up, but I still don't agree. Oh well. > > >While there were some who were more into the slashing, many weren't. > > >There are many portraits from that period which are basically > > >indistinguishable whether they are German or English. Also, there are > > >Englishmen wearing lots of slashing as well. > > > > I haven't seen any indistinguishable ones. Got any examples? > >Pull any Holbein book and you can usually find several. For example, >look at the Englishman Thomas More and compare him to the Germans >Nichlaus Kratzer and Georg Gisze or even the Portrait of the Elector >John the Steadfast and Margrave Albrecht of Brandenburg, Duke of >Prussia (from Cranach.) > >Yes, there are slashed clothing (such as John Frederic the >Magnanimous when he was Heir Apparent and many others) but you also >see slashed clothing in the English menswear such as on Henry VIII. I >suspect if we had more portraits of young men in England such as we >have of the Italians and Germans, we'd see even more of it. ;) > > > Yes. > > > > >It, at least to my eyes, doesn't > > >look anything like what was being worn in England or France at the > > >time, especially in the cut of the bodice and the sleeves. > > > > I didn't mean they were identical, I meant there were similarities. > > These similarities include the high waist with non-pleated skirt, the > > bell-shaped sleeves, and the shape of her sheer cap which has those > > two flanges out the sides. > >How odd. Most of the English ones from the early sixteen century that >I've seen have had normal waist (almost always with a point), squared >neckline, turned back sleeves without anything at the upper arm (even >if it had started out as a "bell shape") showing the foresleeve and, >with the exception of Holbein's drawing of the woman trying to keep >her hem out of the mud, are wearing some form of either the French >Hood or the English Hood which bears no true relationship to the >flanged sheer cap. That cap design (from the sheer undercap to the >part over it) is from her Homeland. It has more roots there than in >either Italy or England. > > There are parallels between these and > > things English women were wearing at the time. German dresses which > > are less like the English ones have pleated skirts, waists at the > > waist, and tight sleeves full of slashing, usually seen in paintings > > by Cranach. > >Even in Cranach not all the skirts are pleated (and you can find non- >pleated dresses and pleated ones in the same paintings.) And the >bodice designs in Cranach are much more like the bodice design of >Anne of Cleves. > >The point where this started, however, is that there is far more >similarity in this period between the mens clothes from various areas >than between the women's clothes. The men may be nearly >indistinguishable (except for some of the younger more "avant garde" >men) but the women's tend to be more regionalized (with perhaps an >influence from elsewhere perhaps.) > >Anne herself noted the major differences between what was worn in >England and what was worn in her Homeland. She deliberately changed >over to wearing "English clothes" when she came to England (as >opposed to other queens who continued to wear clothes reminiscent of >their former home which ended up changing the styles of their adopted >homes.) > >Kat Russell > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 18:02:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15379 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:02:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09N3Ai1013993; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:03:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09N39Ra008966; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:03:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h09N2ERa008359 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:02:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCvGCVbndO72VXqOYpiDhI8MrYG3ihPEMaA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HM49HX2G; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 17:55:01 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20030109.165646.-298661477.6.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,12-13,15-22 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Costume Con 21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:56:45 -0600 Status: RO Hello Everyone! We have just over 3 months until Costume Con 21 here in Chicago. While the con is for all types of costuming, there will be a significant historical presence. Our own Robin Netherton will be doing several programs focusing on 14th and 15th century clothing. Melanie Wilson will be doing a panel on Anglo-Saxon costuming as well as an in depth look at dyeing. Janet Anderson, of AlterYears, will be doing several panels on designing 3-D costumes from 1D and 2D sources (written and visual) as well as 18th century movement. Drea Leed will be enlightening us with her 16th century 'Well Dress'd Peasant' and Teddy will facilitate a round of Chaos Costuming! Also on tap but still to be firmed up are a series of period dance classes taught by Susan de Guardiola. There are still memberships available, get them while they're hot! http://www.jennifarse.com/cc2003/ Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 18:18:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15503 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:18:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NGPi1015156; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NF4Ra015961; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta2.adelphia.net ([64.8.50.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NESRa015607 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.65.178.255] by mta2.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.25 201-253-122-126-125-20021216) with ESMTP id <20030109231422.XXPT4479.mta2.adelphia.net@[68.65.178.255]> for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:14:22 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy From: randl To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030109002801.11520.34832.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 18:14:23 -0500 Status: RO on 1/8/03 7:28 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:19:21 +1100 (EST) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daggy > To: h-costume@indra.com > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > Since neither Lisa nor Baralier have done so, I'll be > brave (or stupid) and tell you about what a dag is in > relation to sheep. From the Australian Concise Oxford > Dictionary: > > "dag: a lock of wool clotted with dung on the hinder > parts of a sheep. (dagged, dagging) remove dags from a > sheep." ah. US military term is "dingle berries". very educational, non? > > Sorry. Makes you see dagged clothing in another light > no? :) er, yes. yech. laurie > > Bella > > http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies > - What's on at your local cinema? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 18:23:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15536 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:23:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NO3i1015739; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NO1Ra020438; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NNqRa020347 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Wm1f-0001h9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:23:51 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Help with French translation on fabric Message-ID: <000401c2b836$32286c90$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00d201c2b82a$3ac82e50$31baee0c@c59303a> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:24:02 -0700 Status: RO No, I am not absolutely sure. But the cieuix matches the French word exactly for 'skys" and les, je, and ne also match the words, the, I and not.....?? Sg >> "Si na bles n'a dessouby (the last two letters of that word are a guess >> since the lettering is weird-but I think it is the word:dessous) les >> cieuix je ne." >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 18:26:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15550 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:26:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NR2i1015915; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NR0Ra021978; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NQWRa021695 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:26:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Wm4F-0005dC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:26:31 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Daggy Message-ID: <000501c2b836$917d54d0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:26:37 -0700 Status: RO I certainly expect sheep to have dags, but I don't really want to think about the US military equivalent-dingle berries. Also, my mother used that term like 'silly'. Like-"Don't be a dingle berry." Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 18:41:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15621 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:41:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ng3i1017136; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09Ng1Ra029952; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NfdRa029734 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:41:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h09Nfd912199 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.62] (tnt-1-126.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.62]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h09Nfam12110 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:41:36 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030108181513.36723.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030108181513.36723.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:25:01 -0800 Status: RO At 6:15 PM +0000 1/8/03, N Kipar wrote: > --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > The disconnect between the available language >> and the re-enactment practice tends to be much more from the scarcity >> of serious interaction between the historic linguistics and >> re-enactment/theater communities, and the steepness of the learning >> curve for those trying to understand and apply the historic knowledge >> that does exist, given that you can't just say, "Here's a tape, study >> and imitate it." > >Heather, I have been asking myself throughout your very interesteing post, >about WHICH period of language study are you talking about? Well, the basic observation holds for any period before sound-recording technology existed: when the knowledge about pronunciation can only be communicated with a specialized technical vocabulary, that's a bar to most people using the information. People are really good about analyzing and imitating aspects of pronunciation on an intuitive basis when they're listening directly to the speech, but it's a different process to move from that intuitive process to an explicit, conscious, technical analysis. It's sort of like the difference between being able to look at a bird and say "that's a pigeon" and being able to read (or create) a description of the physical characteristics that make a pigeon different from other birds. On the other hand, the amount of information about pronunciation or language issues will vary enormously for different languages and time-periods. > > I spend a lot of time trying to describe to non-specialists (in ascii >> e-mail yet!) historic pronunciation of something as simple as >> personal names -- there are times when you want to throw up your >> hands and tell everyone "go learn IPA and then come back and talk to >> me" which, of course, is an unreasonable expectation (so I just >> _think_ it instead of saying it). > >actually, I think it IS a good idea for anyone who is remotely interested in >linguistics, historic or otherwise. Oh, if they're interested in linguistics, it's absolutely essential -- but if they're interested in learning how to pronounce the one particular name they've chosen to use for their historic character, it's a bit over-kill. > > I guess that, as a historic linguist, I'm bristling a bit at having >> my field called "all just guess work" as if it were somehow _more_ >> guesswork than historic costuming is! > >a) I don't think that it was meant that way (I hope...) and b) I ask again, >because I am curious, which period do you specialise in? > >> Heather >> (ask me about medieval Welsh prepositions ... I dare ya!) > >Nope, sorry, I think anything Welsh is at the absolute bottom of any of my >interest lists. *laughs* (or is this in England-insider joke?) No joke -- I'm currently finishing up my linguistics PhD dissertation on metaphoric motivations of the grammaticalization of prepositions in Medieval Welsh. I tend to know the most about the language around the 11-14th centuries. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 18:42:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15626 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:42:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NgFi1017171; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NgERa000199; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:42:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09NffRa029758 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h09Nff912266 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.197.62] (tnt-1-126.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.197.62]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h09Nfem12228 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:41:40 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030108222312.20326.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030108222312.20326.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:34:19 -0800 Status: RO I promise I'll stop talking about linguistics after this. At 10:23 PM +0000 1/8/03, Jane Williams wrote: > > > Heather >> > (ask me about medieval Welsh prepositions ... I >> dare ya!) > >Dare possibly taken.... the other thing I really >should do to improve my "persona" is learn to talk >Welsh (or rather, Brythonic) as it was spoken in the >late 6th century in what is now southern Scotland. >Only I'm not a linguist, and have no idea where to >start. It sounds as if you do? Again, replies off-list >would probably be best? Unfortunately, that's a particular language/time-period combination for which the available information is very small. Since the Brythonic language(s) of the north left essentially no surviving written records (leaving aside, for the moment, the complicated question of the language of the Gododdin) there's not much basis for being able to identify differences between the northern and southern subfamilies of the language group in the 6th century. For the more southern Brythonic languages/dialects at that period, we've got a pretty good handle on general pronunciation issues (the best place to start is Kenneth Jackson's "Language and History in Early Britain" although many of his conclusions have been challenged or overturned by more recent work). But while we can have a good idea of what individual words were like in 6th century Brythonic, reconstructing the overall grammar to the point of being able to come up with complete sentences is a much trickier affair. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 19:03:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15748 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:03:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A046i1018726; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A041Ra011076; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from 2xtreme.innercite.com (root@2xtreme.innercite.com [158.222.95.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A03vRa011032 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:03:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from 2xtreme.net (host-226-104.dialup.innercite.com [158.222.226.104]) by 2xtreme.innercite.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0A01a1D007941 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:01:36 -0800 Message-ID: <3E1E0CE7.27BD8784@2xtreme.net> From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con, was GFD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:59:35 -0800 Status: RO Thank you for the kind words Robin, but I will not be at Costume-Con, and much as I would like to. With the birth on my son, and becoming a stay at home Dad. Plus more money problems than I can count, car dying, computer dying, paying for school for son, Etc, etc. I just can't afford it. Which hurts, trust me. I hope everyone has a wonderful time, and I will think of you all. Stephen Robin Netherton wrote: > On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Catelli wrote: > > > Ann in CT > > going to Costume-Con, too, my 8th > > I have just had my speaking schedule confirmed for CostumeCon (thanks, > Karen!). I will be giving five hours of lectures! If I have any breath > left over I will want to socialize. Who else will be there? > > Teddy and Mel are slated to speak, and Stephen Bergdahl, and others from > this list that I'm not remembering right now and am too pressed to go look > up, but you can ... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 20:03:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15978 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:03:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A152i1022422; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A151Ra003789; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A14ZRa003638 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 51721055 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:04:29 -0500 Message-ID: <007101c2b844$1dc48320$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <001c01c2b827$d0aa9230$410110ac@wkslnng238> <0de201c2b827$cef25ae0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medici exhibit in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:03:40 -0600 Status: RO Unfortunately, Chicago and Detroit are the only US cities. It is also being shown in Florence, Italy, but I don't know if it started there or is ending there. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF There's no such thing as too many books! lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** >OK, since I won't be able to hit EITHER of these-- any idea if I've missed >it being in New York? Or where I can look it up? >Lyn Greaves >Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton >COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 20:19:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16026 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:19:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1L2i1023349; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1L1Ra009297; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1KpRa009255 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip188.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.188]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0A1Kl11003862 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:20:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030109180356.01f7a000@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara In-Reply-To: <3E1D034A.F6F9FCB0@in-tch.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: GFD Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 18:04:34 -0500 Status: RO Hey, Robin, Do you have one made up in purple? That could work! ;D -- Mara > > I am seriously thinking of making for CostumeCon (my first) a black GFD to > > wear with heavy makeup, black nail enamel, a black lace veil, and maybe > > some fishnet stockings and black leather boots. It would be a Goth fitted > > dress, of course. I probably won't be able to get my act together in time > > to sew it, but where else could I pull that one? (And what else would I > > need to complete the outfit?) > > > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 20:19:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16032 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:19:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1LBi1023372; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:21:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1LARa009378; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:21:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1KuRa009273 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip188.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.188]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0A1Kl15003862 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:20:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030109201529.01ec74e0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? In-Reply-To: <200301092236.h09Mam7S050979@jabberwock.wonderland.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:17:17 -0500 Status: RO At 02:36 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: >this sounds really interesting! >do you know of any photos online of similar corset? >Is the paper you have something that can be shared? or could you >share your source for it? > >.heather. They're from the Tidy's Symposium Papers. I've posted three files, temporarily: http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Stays/ChurchillStays1.jpg http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Stays/ChurchillStays2.jpg http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Stays/ChurchillStays3.GIF Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 20:40:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16094 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:40:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1g1i1024788; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1g0Ra016185; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1f5Ra015733 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.238]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8H00LEQ5VFQP@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 17:38:04 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con, was GFD In-reply-to: <3E1E0CE7.27BD8784@2xtreme.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030109164248.00d62d90@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:49:42 -0800 Status: RO >Thank you for the kind words Robin, but I will not be at Costume-Con, and much >as I would like to. With the birth on my son, and becoming a stay at home >Dad. Plus more money problems than I can count, car dying, computer dying, >paying for school for son, Etc, etc. I just can't afford it. Which hurts, >trust me. I hope everyone has a wonderful time, and I will think of you all. Some people I know are getting together a bid to do a CostumeCon in San Jose, CA, in a few years (can't remember the number they're going for, maybe three or four years away). But that should be close enough for you to get to, and long enough away that you can finance the trip. I'll even be there, having volunteered to run their doll competition for them. BTW, I've seen Stephen's kid - cute, cute, cute. Of course he was wearing one of Daddy's creations when I saw him... Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 20:46:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16112 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:46:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1m2i1025144; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1m1Ra018209; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A1l7Ra017902 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([24.103.127.8]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20030110014616.OHAU513731.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:46:16 -0500 Message-ID: <009901c2b84a$286dcb50$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: References: <20030109.165646.-298661477.6.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.127.8] using ID at Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:46:15 -0500 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:46:55 -0500 Status: RO Awww....I would *so* love to go to Costume-con, but not sure I can warrant the expense for hotels and such (plus I'm not sure I could convince hubby to drive all the way to Chicago, since we wouldn't be able to afford to fly...). *sigh* -- Maral http://sarcasm.fanfic.org http://www.penthelia.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] Costume Con 21 > > Hello Everyone! > > We have just over 3 months until Costume Con 21 here in Chicago. While > the con is for all types of costuming, there will be a significant > historical presence. Our own Robin Netherton will be doing several > programs focusing on 14th and 15th century clothing. Melanie Wilson will > be doing a panel on Anglo-Saxon costuming as well as an in depth look at > dyeing. Janet Anderson, of AlterYears, will be doing several panels on > designing 3-D costumes from 1D and 2D sources (written and visual) as > well as 18th century movement. Drea Leed will be enlightening us with her > 16th century 'Well Dress'd Peasant' and Teddy will facilitate a round of > Chaos Costuming! > > Also on tap but still to be firmed up are a series of period dance > classes taught by Susan de Guardiola. > > There are still memberships available, get them while they're hot! > > http://www.jennifarse.com/cc2003/ > > > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 21:07:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16198 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:07:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A293i1026417; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A291Ra024875; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41012.mail.yahoo.com (web41012.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0A285Ra024581 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:08:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030110020800.68363.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [158.125.1.23] by web41012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 18:08:00 PST From: Tania Gruning To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030109180356.01f7a000@saltmine.radix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1943293596-1042164480=:67152" Subject: [h-cost] embroidery on 16'th century smock Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:08:00 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-1943293596-1042164480=:67152 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was wondering if a heraldic rose, satinstitched. in gold pink and cream, with a pearl center would be period on a 16'th century smock. The smock is high necked. and the I will use the double dogwood rose design like the one of the tudor rose. It will be in a single design colour. I have already tried the design out on a piece of linen and I like it, but as far as I can see most smocks were decorated with blackwork embroidery. Tania --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1943293596-1042164480=:67152 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I was wondering if a heraldic rose, satinstitched. in gold pink and cream, with a pearl center would be period on a 16'th century smock. The smock is high necked. and the I will use the double dogwood rose design like the one of the tudor rose. It will be in a single design colour. I have already tried the design out on a piece of linen and I like it, but as far as I can see most smocks were decorated with blackwork embroidery.

Tania


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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1943293596-1042164480=:67152-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 21:13:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16232 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:13:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A2F3i1026852; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A2F2Ra026955; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A2EdRa026753 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:14:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp235099pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.183.28]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8H002JZ7KACI@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:14:34 -0500 (EST) From: Liz / Cozit To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3E1E2C8B.3020007@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 References: <20030110012100.9292.18136.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of Costume Con... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:14:35 -0500 Status: RO Ok... an aside to Karen, then a query for the rest of you: Karen, I'll warn you up front that whether that authenticity vs. reenactment reality discussion can be two or one depends entirely on who I can get to join me for those discussions... since the only post Henry VIII reenactment info I have has always been from speaking to others who do, rather than doing myself (doing garbed tours of a church way back in high school doesn't count :-) So.... is there anyone out there who has experience in costuming for re-enactment purposes (and yes, SCA counts for this) who is interested in being on a discussion panel at Costume Con in Chicago this spring? The only definites I have so far are Drea (ok, so that covers most of the SCA scope right there :-) and an almost definite from Paula Peterka (I'm working on that one) who has a lot of English Tudor and German (same period, both Landsknecht and noble). Hoping (at the least) to find some who can speak on Colonial America/ Early US, and Civil War periods. This is supposed to be a "fun thing"... share your horror stories, things you've learned (either the hard way or not), things you've tried... things you've seen tried, etc... regarding trying to work authentic garb for historical re-enactment with what you can get/find today.... and shortcuts that some take as well (let's face it, there are few of us who are "nuts enough" to completely handsew an outfit from scratch these days, for example.... though I'll admit to having done so, having no machine when I wanted a dress made for an "event") If I luck out and hit a point where I've enough for the panel, I'll still be more than happy to have you come and participate from the "audience". I'm hoping to convince the folks not up front to contribute stories, questions and advice when they can as well... as facinating as listening to others' experiences can be, it's all the more useful and interesting if that information can apply directly to the "audience" members... wanna-bes, novice, or experienced as they might be. *g* And yes, if you like to talk about any of the above, any time in history (think we're cutting it off in the 19th century, but I won't object to any WWI/WWII era re-enactment costuming info coming up either... it's all interesting, though those are a bit easier to "do" because more modern achive info is available, so less controvercial/troublesome) Please let me know, and join us. I'm the first to admit that my actual experience is pretty limited for a number of reasons, though I've listened to lots of stories, and planned things in my head for years (as I've told Karen). I'm happy to give the floor to anyone who can enthrall, or help those who come to the discussion groups. I'm also trying to get together a handout of "where to go/where to find" information or materials... so if anyone has a favorite from any time period, I'd love to hear them. I started on a nice long list (too long for a handout) a year and a half ago... but a computer glitch destroyed all my bookmarks *and* just under half of my document files, including that one... so I'm *almost* starting from scratch. -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 22:28:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17023 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:28:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A3U9i1000461; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:30:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A3U1Ra018966; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A3TJRa018729 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:29:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-001mosloup108.dialsprint.net ([168.191.109.68] helo=hppav) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WprC-0001iT-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:29:18 -0500 Message-ID: <016d01c2b858$d5c6bec0$446dbfa8@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [h-cost] off topic/paper clay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:31:58 -0600 Status: RO Anatomy of a Doll: The Fabric Sculptor's Handbook -- by Susanna Oroyan, et al; Paperback Buy new: $18.87 -- Used & new from: $14.85 2. Fantastic Figures: Ideas & Techniques Using the New Clays -- by Susanna Oroyan; Paperback Buy new: $16.07 -- Used & new from: $12.74 3. Finishing the Figure: Doll Costuming, Embellishments, Accessories -- by Susanna Oroyan; Paperback Buy new: $20.97 -- Used & new from: $18.98 This is Genie, way behind on posts. All these books are on my wish list. Also, for those who need a little more incentive, here's an url with patterns for soft sculpture dolls. www.magicthreads.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 22:31:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17032 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:31:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A3X1i1000665; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A3X1Ra019791; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A3WiRa019727 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:32:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from host-66-81-241-179.rev.o1.com ([66.81.241.179] helo=[66.81.242.32]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WpuV-0006lD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:32:43 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: GFD Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:32:39 -0800 Status: RO At 1:51 PM -0600 1/8/03, Robin Netherton wrote: >I am seriously thinking of making for CostumeCon (my first) a black GFD to >wear with heavy makeup, black nail enamel, a black lace veil, and maybe >some fishnet stockings and black leather boots. It would be a Goth fitted >dress, of course. I probably won't be able to get my act together in time >to sew it, but where else could I pull that one? (And what else would I >need to complete the outfit?) Appropriate jewelry, of course, especially The Necklace. The Necklace, often referred to as a "rosary," is black with accents in blood red, dripping with dangles, and should bear at least two or three of the following: crucifix, spider, skull, dagger, snake, dragon, pentacle, eyeball, lightning bolt, roses, etc. etc. (It's an equal opportunity necklace -- treats the symbols of several religions with equal respect, or lack of.) Any resemblance to an actual rosary is purely coincidental. Snake finger rings and coordinating bracelets, hair stilettos, etc. are optional. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 23:23:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17647 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:23:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A4O2i1002700; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A4O1Ra004900; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A4NvRa004873 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:23:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-64.154.75.185.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([64.154.75.185] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Wqi4-0002Rf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:23:56 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030109232325.041e8d58@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-pronunciation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 23:23:25 -0500 Status: RO On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:11:20 -0700, Sue Clemenger wrote: >I've always regretted not being able to take classes in learning how to >recite poetry like that (or later stuff). My English lit classes mostly >treated it like, well, literature, to be read silently, and critiqued >and diagrammed into the ground. Blech. Yuck! I was lucky enough to have a high school English program that had a number of electives. One of them I chose, "Classics in World Literature", went through a unit on Chaucer. In the process, we were introduced to the orthography and pronunciation of Chaucerian English and treated to a short passage of a recording of Beowulf recited in the original. This was in the fall of 1976, and the teacher even went so far as to compose for us, in the style of the Canterbury Tales' prologue, a piece about the Presidential election... I may still have it, somewhere... Brenda Faith Bell webwarren@earthlink.net Consultant, The Web Warren http://www.webwarren.com/ arachne@webwarren.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 9 23:24:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17679 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:24:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A4Q2i1002859; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A4Q2Ra005552; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A4PERa005278 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0A4PAKk053639 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:25:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301100425.h0A4PAKk053639@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] more christmas presents! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:25:10 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I just got my final christmas present in the mail... and it's a complete set of Margo's patterns! yayay! I am so stunned at how much material comes with them... *settles down to read all night* .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 00:12:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18470 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:12:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A5E3i1004880; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:14:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A5E1Ra018636; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A5D7Ra018373 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:13:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0A5D3xL054045 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:13:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301100513.h0A5D3xL054045@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Kevin + Mara" at Jan 09, 2003 08:17:17 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:13:03 -0800 (PST) Status: RO that's very much different than I was envisioning - thank you for sharing! .heather. > > At 02:36 PM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >this sounds really interesting! > >do you know of any photos online of similar corset? > >Is the paper you have something that can be shared? or could you > >share your source for it? > > > >.heather. > > They're from the Tidy's Symposium Papers. I've posted three files, > temporarily: > http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Stays/ChurchillStays1.jpg > http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Stays/ChurchillStays2.jpg > http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Stays/ChurchillStays3.GIF > > Cheers, > Mara > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 00:54:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18862 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:54:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A5u4i1006541; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A5u1Ra029066; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21307.mail.yahoo.com (web21307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.128.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0A5tTRa028952 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:55:29 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030110055529.85913.qmail@web21307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.209.60.53] by web21307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:55:29 PST From: kate To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <007101c2b844$1dc48320$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Medici exhibit in Chicago Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: ailith@neo.rr.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:55:29 -0800 (PST) Status: RO It began in Florence--so Detroit is your best bet if you can't make it to Chicago. The catalog is *wonderful*!! A friend of mine bought it--it has lovely color plates and tremendous information on all of the pieces. kate --- lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote: > Unfortunately, Chicago and Detroit are the only US > cities. It is also being > shown in Florence, Italy, but I don't know if it > started there or is ending > there. > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter > Cabot, cod merchant of > Bristol, > BRF FOF > > There's no such thing as too many books! > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** > > >OK, since I won't be able to hit EITHER of these-- > any idea if I've missed > >it being in New York? Or where I can look it up? > > > >Lyn Greaves > >Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton > >COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 01:06:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18882 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:06:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A672i1006931; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A670Ra001832; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0A66sRa001792 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:06:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a231.in-tch.com [66.62.107.31]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0A5oQ905716 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:50:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1E6322.B6968DFD@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 21 References: <20030109.165646.-298661477.6.Seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 23:07:30 -0700 Status: RO Ooooh! I sure wish I could afford to go! I'd love to see Robin and Teddy again, and meet more of you! *sniff* --sue goes off, feeling sorry for herself....*sniff* seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > Hello Everyone! > > We have just over 3 months until Costume Con 21 here in Chicago. While > the con is for all types of costuming, there will be a significant > historical presence. Our own Robin Netherton will be doing several > programs focusing on 14th and 15th century clothing. Melanie Wilson will > be doing a panel on Anglo-Saxon costuming as well as an in depth look at > dyeing. Janet Anderson, of AlterYears, will be doing several panels on > designing 3-D costumes from 1D and 2D sources (written and visual) as > well as 18th century movement. Drea Leed will be enlightening us with her > 16th century 'Well Dress'd Peasant' and Teddy will facilitate a round of > Chaos Costuming! > > Also on tap but still to be firmed up are a series of period dance > classes taught by Susan de Guardiola. > > There are still memberships available, get them while they're hot! > > http://www.jennifarse.com/cc2003/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 05:57:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA31059 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:57:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AAx4i1015185; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AAx0Ra001996; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AAw9Ra001799 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:58:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040CA110813 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 07D2511094E for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:58:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <125b01c2b896$ff761890$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <20030109.165646.-298661477.6.Seamstrix@juno.com> <3E1E6322.B6968DFD@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:56:58 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 21 > Ooooh! I sure wish I could afford to go! I'd love to see Robin and Teddy > again, and meet more of you! > *sniff* > --sue goes off, feeling sorry for herself....*sniff* Me too....I miss Teddy!! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 08:17:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31504 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:17:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ADJ3i1019020; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ADJ1Ra001209; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ADIkRa001107 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:18:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.183.14fb87ed (25305) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:18:35 -0500 (EST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: <183.14fb87ed.2b50222b@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_183.14fb87ed.2b50222b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] language of clothing conference Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:18:35 EST Status: RO --part1_183.14fb87ed.2b50222b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wondered if anyone else from h-costume is going to this conference in Williamsburg this weekend. It looks to be pretty fun, check it out here if you like: The Williamsburg Institute Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com --part1_183.14fb87ed.2b50222b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Just wondered if anyone else from h-costume is going to this conference in Williamsburg this weekend.  It looks to be pretty fun, check it out here if you like:
The Williamsburg Institute

Cheers,

Loren Dearborn
marionetta@aol.com --part1_183.14fb87ed.2b50222b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 08:35:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31600 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:35:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ADb2i1019532; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ADb1Ra005419; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ADa6Ra005200 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m243.in-tch.com [216.166.191.243]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0ADJc909260 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:19:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1ECC6A.A3D82E19@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 21 References: <20030109.165646.-298661477.6.Seamstrix@juno.com> <3E1E6322.B6968DFD@in-tch.com> <125b01c2b896$ff761890$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:36:42 -0700 Status: RO Yeah! On the list, AND in person! Him and his cat-print waistcoat . --sue Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Clemenger" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:07 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 21 > > > Ooooh! I sure wish I could afford to go! I'd love to see Robin and Teddy > > again, and meet more of you! > > *sniff* > > --sue goes off, feeling sorry for herself....*sniff* > > Me too....I miss Teddy!! > > Dianne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 09:13:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31765 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:13:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AEF8i1021072; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AEF5Ra015195; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0AEELRa014965 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:14:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWk225gjC+RtOOdHjQgMx6Hv1qK03TKkaUw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HM6V4NFG; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:14:00 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] more christmas presents! Message-ID: <20030110.091201.-645671.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-8 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:12:01 -0500 Status: RO *settles down to read all night* All night won't do it. I have had my set from the beginning and I still haven't read all the way through it. I have, however, made two chemise (one with collar, one low neck), a corset, a farthingale, an underskirt, two french hoods, three partlets and a bodice and skirt using them. I LOVE mine. Enjoy!!! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 10:44:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32221 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:44:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AFk6i1026402; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AFk1CZ016646; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40909.mail.yahoo.com (web40909.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0AFjCCZ016302 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:45:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030110154507.96519.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:45:07 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030110060700.1826.30687.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] OT: 'living' historical lit; was: Authenticity-pronunciation Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:45:07 -0800 (PST) Status: RO On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:11:20 -0700, Sue Clemenger wrote: >I've always regretted not being able to take classes in learning how to >recite poetry like that (or later stuff). My English lit classes mostly >treated it like, well, literature, to be read silently, and critiqued >and diagrammed into the ground. Blech. Quel dommage! I was fortunate enough to enter into a particularly challenging AP ("advanced placement") English class for my senior year in high school and we were all required to memorize and recite the beginning portion of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales Prologue using the proper pronunciation. We spent some time practicing it in class and most of us never got it QUITE right, but it was a bracing experience, to say the least. I remember disliking it terribly at the time, but now, looking back, I see what a treasure it was. I can still recall the first line, but no more than that is memorized: "Whan that aprill with his shoures soote..." Later, in college and with a little more maturity, I pined for such experiences and only received them fleetingly throughout my time as an English literature major. One teacher required us to memorize and recite poetry by Gerard Manley Hopkins, who wrote in his self-styled "sprung" rhythm, and THAT was hard to figure out. Beowulf, sadly, was thrown at us in another class by a dull professor who never bothered to make it come alive for us. Ironically, many years earlier at the age of five, my family had been living in a Hippy paradise in the hills of West Virginia, USA, and during a Halloween gathering at a local commune, a young man gathered the children and read us a modernized version of Beowulf (his idea of a creepy story for young children!). For the next month or so I had Serious Issues (tm) going outside after dark to the outhouse (yup, we lived simply). I was convinced that Grendal was coming to get me! -Tasha __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 12:04:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32558 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:04:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AH63i1003319; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AH60CZ027259; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AH5aCZ027048 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <20030110170530002007rjl0e>; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:05:30 +0000 Message-ID: <3E1EFD85.7050007@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: 'living' historical lit; was: Authenticity-pronunciation References: <20030110154507.96519.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:06:13 -0800 Status: RO Tasha McGann wrote in part: >we were all required to memorize and recite the beginning >portion of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales Prologue using >the proper pronunciation. > >I can still recall the first line, but no more >than that is memorized: "Whan that aprill with his >shoures soote..." > > > If you'd like to revisit that experience, go to this site http://www.towson.edu/~duncan/chaucer/ which is an electronic edition of the Tales, with dry, dusty professors reading it aloud. Click on text, and the little bull-horn looking icons to the right will, when clicked on, play parts of the text. It works better in IE than Mozilla for me. liz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 12:36:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00342 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:35:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AHbBi1005983; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:37:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AHb1CZ014373; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f44.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AHaGCZ013917 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:36:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:36:11 -0800 Received: from 151.199.136.99 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:36:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.136.99] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery on 16'th century smock Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 17:36:11.0453 (UTC) FILETIME=[C43756D0:01C2B8CE] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:36:11 -0500 Status: RO I, too, am working on an embroidered smock (I have finished half of the first set of the pattern on one cuff) and in Janet Arnold's Elizabethan and Jacobean Smocks and Shirts, she provides a list of New Year's gifts to QE1 in 1559. One smock is "wrought with blak and silke and golde", another with blue silk, another with silver an black silk, and one "wrought with golde silver and silke purled with pipes of gold" (couched?). So they're certainly using colours. I wonder about stitching one element with colour and just black everywhere else, though. My colour-coordinated modern self would use the colours throughout, having no documentation as to how coloured silks WERE used. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson >From: Tania Gruning >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] embroidery on 16'th century smock >Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:08:00 -0800 (PST) > > >I was wondering if a heraldic rose, satinstitched. in gold pink and cream, >with a pearl center would be period on a 16'th century smock. The smock is >high necked. and the I will use the double dogwood rose design like the one >of the tudor rose. It will be in a single design colour. I have already >tried the design out on a piece of linen and I like it, but as far as I can >see most smocks were decorated with blackwork embroidery. > >Tania > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 12:46:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00403 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:46:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AHm2i1006924; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AHm0CZ020309; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0AHlUCZ020019 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:47:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWk225gjC+RtO67V1uCXT3iXpTvlxOvP9Xg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HM69946X; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:46:41 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: 'living' historical lit; was: Authenticity-pronunciation Message-ID: <20030110.124445.-645671.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:44:44 -0500 Status: RO Wow, thanks a lot - that is a neat site! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 14:25:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00958 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:25:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AJR3i1015846; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AJR1CZ013284; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f3.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AJQbCZ013012 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:26:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:22:18 -0800 Received: from 169.233.3.149 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:22:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [169.233.3.149] From: "Kala Jathos" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2003 19:22:18.0176 (UTC) FILETIME=[97142C00:01C2B8DD] Subject: [h-cost] Leine question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:22:17 -0800 Status: RO Hi all, I'm currently in the process of totally redoing my Elizabethan "Irish" ensemble for Calaveras Celtic festival this year. (Anyone who was there last year and remembers the temperature and snow Saturday night would understand why... ;) ) I've got blue twill wool suiting that I shrunk to within an inch of it's life, and I'm making the typical "bog dress" (patterned after the one at Chivalry Sports) from it. But my question regards the leine that I'm making to go under it. I'm confused by the great varience in styles that I've seen, some described as more or less period. There are straight sleeves, made from rectangles of fabric that go straight to the side seams. There are the "swoopy" sleeves that taper at the armhole to lessen the bulk of fabric under the arm. There are pleated leines, leines with drawstrings on the sleeves, and leines with ties in them to hold up the sleeves instead. There are sleeves "pockets" that are shortish - only about a foot or two from the wearer's wrist. There are also pointed sleeves that are so long they get tucked into the wearer's belt in back. My question is, of course, which of all these options would one consider more period? Or peri-oid? I've heard so much conflicting opinion on this that I'm just dying to know what everyone on this list thinks. Thanks! -Laura (Miss Maryanne Gubbins, Fezziwigs; Alessia Sofia Diannah DiMartino d'Arezzo, Herbalisst, Guild of Santa Maria) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 15:47:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01453 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:47:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AKm6i1026605; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AKm4CZ026706; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AKlVCZ026378 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:47:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip219.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.219]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0AKlR821655 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:47:27 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery on 16'th century smock Message-ID: <3E1EC102.10639.F649D13@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:48:02 -0800 Status: RO > I, too, am working on an embroidered smock (I have finished half of > the first set of the pattern on one cuff) and in Janet Arnold's > Elizabethan and Jacobean Smocks and Shirts, she provides a list of New > Year's gifts to QE1 in 1559. One smock is "wrought with blak and > silke and golde", another with blue silk, another with silver an black > silk, and one "wrought with golde silver and silke purled with pipes > of gold" (couched?). So they're certainly using colours. I wonder > about stitching one element with colour and just black everywhere > else, though. My colour-coordinated modern self would use the colours > throughout, having no documentation as to how coloured silks WERE > used. In Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd (also by Janet Arnold) she shows some of the embroideries (and although in B&W you can tell how color is used). Of course, these are for Elizabeth's time and are not necessarily applicable to the 16th C prior to her becoming Queen. There were some shifting of color usage and embroidery styles around that time. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 16:08:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01599 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:08:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AKh5i1026018; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:43:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AKh0CZ023925; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0AKggCZ023751 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:42:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A040F03C00F8; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:42:40 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A0413290232; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:42:41 -0600 Message-ID: <007a01c2b8e8$e2c3c740$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] You Never Know Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:43:09 -0500 Status: RO It always surprises me just who is using my website. I just got a curator a museum of Natural History in California. They wanted to use a photo on my 1908 McCall's webpage in an exhibit. http://www.costumegallery.com/McCalls/May_1908/Ladies_Hats.htm They want to use the image in the lower left, second row in an exhibit. I told her that I had a lot prettier hat photos that I would be glad share. No, she wanted this specific image. This left me wondering why. Look at the description under the hat... the word "aigrettes". The aigrette are the white feathers on the hat. The exhibit is about birds and those drove to near extinction. She told me that the aigrette bird was drove to near extinction by the fashion industry using their feathers on hats. Later on, laws prevented the use of certain bird feathers on hats, including the aigrette. I learned something new! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 16:29:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01685 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:29:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ALV3i1029988; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ALV1CZ019391; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0ALUXCZ019133 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 53437 invoked by uid 1005); 10 Jan 2003 21:30:24 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.072617 secs); 10 Jan 2003 21:30:24 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.072617 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2003 21:30:24 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] You Never Know In-Reply-To: <007a01c2b8e8$e2c3c740$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20030110163012.F1310-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:30:30 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Is the "aigrette" related to the "egret" ? Drea On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Penny Ladnier wrote: > It always surprises me just who is using my website. I just got a curator a > museum of Natural History in California. They wanted to use a photo on my > 1908 McCall's webpage in an exhibit. > http://www.costumegallery.com/McCalls/May_1908/Ladies_Hats.htm They want to > use the image in the lower left, second row in an exhibit. I told her that > I had a lot prettier hat photos that I would be glad share. No, she wanted > this specific image. This left me wondering why. Look at the description > under the hat... the word "aigrettes". The aigrette are the white feathers > on the hat. The exhibit is about birds and those drove to near extinction. > She told me that the aigrette bird was drove to near extinction by the > fashion industry using their feathers on hats. Later on, laws prevented the > use of certain bird feathers on hats, including the aigrette. > > I learned something new! > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 16:44:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01765 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:44:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ALk8i1001329; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:46:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ALk5CZ027675; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ALisCZ026933 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:44:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9033 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2003 21:44:48 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com Received: from dhcp065-024-125-020.columbus.rr.com (HELO ?65.24.125.20?) (65.24.125.20) by mail.donet.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2003 21:44:48 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations From: Marsha Hamilton To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001501c2b684$ec0fec40$715183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:41:45 -0500 Status: RO Plimoth Plantation used to sell an audio tape (I have a copy) called "O FOR A MUSE OF FOYRE!" by Richard Scollins and Ram's Bottom. It was $9.95 back in the day and demonstrates the accent used by interpretive staff at Plimoth Plantation. Foyre (like foyer) by the way is the pronunciation of "fire". If you listen to the tape enough times, you can pick up the accent which is rough, vaguely rural English, fun to try. I didn't find the tape listed on Plimoth's website but they may be able to assist if you contact them. Good luck. Marsha --------- on 1/7/03 2:42 PM, Lloyd Mitchell at rmitchell@washjeff.edu wrote: > Lisa as a starter, you might contact Plimouth Plantation, Plymouth, Ma. and > ask if their research material used for the living history site would be > available...at least their resources. They 'do' 1603-1627 and are renowned > for their success in preparing their actors for the Life. > Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 10 21:54:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03667 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:54:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B2u3i1025680; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B2u08x029238; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from 2xtreme.innercite.com (root@2xtreme.innercite.com [158.222.95.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B2tv8x029220 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:55:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from 2xtreme.net (host-227-170.dialup.innercite.com [158.222.227.170]) by 2xtreme.innercite.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0B2rX1D011060 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:53:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3E1F86B3.DCE1746B@2xtreme.net> From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con, was GFD References: <4.3.1.2.20030109164248.00d62d90@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:51:31 -0800 Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > BTW, I've seen Stephen's kid - cute, cute, cute. Of course he was wearing > one of Daddy's creations when I saw him... > > Kayta > > Just in case anyone wants to see here is his web page. http://www.2xtreme.net/~madly/Raymond/Start/Raymond.htm Enjoy, and be warned I will be at Costume-Con in Salt Lake City. It's driving distance from Sacramento. We are going to take a week off and do a family trip. Stephen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 00:10:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04012 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:10:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B5C4i1001331; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:12:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B5C18x002632; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0B5B18x002309 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14936 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2003 05:59:11 -0000 Received: from 66-44-17-100.s1878.apx2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.17.100) by shada.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2003 05:59:11 -0000 Message-ID: <3E1FA839.8000105@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of Costume Con... References: <20030110012100.9292.18136.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3E1E2C8B.3020007@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <3E1E2C8B.3020007@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:14:33 -0500 Status: RO Liz / Cozit wrote: > So.... is there anyone out there who has experience in costuming for > re-enactment purposes (and yes, SCA counts for this) who is interested > in being on a discussion panel at Costume Con in Chicago this spring? > The only definites I have so far are Drea (ok, so that covers most of > the SCA scope right there :-) and an almost definite from Paula Peterka > (I'm working on that one) who has a lot of English Tudor and German > (same period, both Landsknecht and noble). um, well I've been doing Viking for a while - my group (Ostvik) is often "neighbors" at events with Paula's group, and I'll be at CC21 - even competing Sat & Sun. I don't have any horror stories, but I've been around Denmark and Norway and met reenactors there and compared what I see Americans do and what I saw there. Is that any help to you? Dunno what my tech times will be, though. Susan and I were also planning on wearing our vikings at some point during the weekend. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 00:25:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04030 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:25:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B5R2i1001738; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B5R18x006496; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B5Q48x006237 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:26:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m91.in-tch.com [216.166.191.91]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0B59Z903726 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:09:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E1FAB11.4B9CA441@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con, was GFD References: <4.3.1.2.20030109164248.00d62d90@mail.frys.com> <3E1F86B3.DCE1746B@2xtreme.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:26:41 -0700 Status: RO Stephen! He's *adorable!* --sue Stephen Bergdahl wrote: > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > BTW, I've seen Stephen's kid - cute, cute, cute. Of course he was wearing > > one of Daddy's creations when I saw him... > > > > Kayta > > > > > > Just in case anyone wants to see here is his web page. > > http://www.2xtreme.net/~madly/Raymond/Start/Raymond.htm > > Enjoy, and be warned I will be at Costume-Con in Salt Lake City. It's > driving > distance from Sacramento. We are going to take a week off and do a > family trip. > > Stephen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 00:30:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04047 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:30:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B5W1i1001917; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B5W08x010190; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0B5VK8x009648 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:31:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-008neomahp121.dialsprint.net ([63.178.246.185] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18XEEo-0006ed-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:31:19 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030110231359.00b9b3f8@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <20030110060700.1826.30687.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Several things Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:31:01 -0600 Status: RO Kayta said (Hi, Kayta!) >Some people I know are getting together a bid to do a CostumeCon in San >Jose, CA, in a few years (can't remember the number they're going for, >maybe three or four years away). But that should be close enough for you >to get to, and long enough away that you can finance the trip. I'll even >be there, having volunteered to run their doll competition for them. >Kayta CC 26, in 2008. (not that long at all......) >Awww....I would *so* love to go to Costume-con, but not sure I can warrant >the expense for hotels and such (plus I'm not sure I could convince hubby to >drive all the way to Chicago, since we wouldn't be able to afford to >fly...). *sigh* > >-- Maral Where are you, Maral? The Costume-Con's after this one are: CC 22: Atlanta CC 23: Provo, UT CC 24 (bid): Des Moines, IA CC 25 (bid): St. Louis CC 26 (bid): San Jose Hopefully one of them will be close enough! >This is Genie, way behind on posts. All these books are on my wish list. >Also, for those who need a little more incentive, here's an url with >patterns for soft sculpture dolls. > >www.magicthreads.com Ah, yes...Magic Threads....The owner/artist, Julie McCullough, lived in Lincoln, NE for several years. I love her stuff...Want to do something full size based on something of hers someday. >Ooooh! I sure wish I could afford to go! I'd love to see Robin and Teddy >again, and meet more of you! >*sniff* >--sue goes off, feeling sorry for herself....*sniff* Sue, see above - don't know if Robin and Teddy will be able to get there, but the one in Utah might be do-able for you?? >Quel dommage! I was fortunate enough to enter into a >particularly challenging AP ("advanced placement") >English class for my senior year in high school and we >were all required to memorize and recite the beginning >portion of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales Prologue using >the proper pronunciation. We spent some time >practicing it in class and most of us never got it >QUITE right, but it was a bracing experience, to say >the least. I remember disliking it terribly at the >time, but now, looking back, I see what a treasure it >was. I can still recall the first line, but no more >than that is memorized: "Whan that aprill with his >shoures soote..." > > Beowulf, sadly, was thrown at us in >another class by a dull professor who never bothered >to make it come alive for us. >Ironically, many years earlier at the age of five, my >family had been living in a Hippy paradise in the >hills of West Virginia, USA, and during a Halloween >gathering at a local commune, a young man gathered the >children and read us a modernized version of Beowulf >(his idea of a creepy story for young children!). For >the next month or so I had Serious Issues (tm) going >outside after dark to the outhouse (yup, we lived >simply). I was convinced that Grendal was coming to >get me! > >-Tasha Tasha, Get a CD of Benjamin Britten's "Ceremony of Carols". It's all in Chaucerian English, and the music is really nice also. We performed it several times in college choir. Also, when our oldest nephew was reading Beowulf (when he was about 10), his younger brother (about 6) wanted to be Grendel for Halloween - and knew exactly who Grendel was! We'll be at CC 21 (we'd better, we're on the committee!). Pierre and Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 07:19:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16412 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:19:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BCL7i1012168; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 05:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BCL18x005079; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 05:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.fi (IDENT:postfix@morgoth.tuug.fi [130.232.72.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BCKK8x004964 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 05:20:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix, from userid 15211) id 04ECAFB9C; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:19:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F33FB8F for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:19:22 +0200 (EET) From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030106120321.027289e0@blue.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030106120321.027289e0@blue.ucdavis.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:19:22 +0200 (EET) Status: RO On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > There is one pattern from Promenade but I haven't made that one up yet. > Carolynn reviewed it on the GBACG site > http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/promenade.htm. Where can one get Promenade Patterns, BTW? Do they have a web page somewhere? -- Lynoure Rajamaki lynoure@tuug.fi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 07:40:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16482 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:40:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BCd2i1012584; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 05:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BCd08x008304; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 05:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BCcR8x008206 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 05:38:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.33.216]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8J00IGJV42YC@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 04:38:26 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Several things In-reply-to: <5.1.1.6.0.20030110231359.00b9b3f8@radiks.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030111042814.00ced650@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030110060700.1826.30687.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 04:30:36 -0800 Status: RO Pierre & Sandy Pettinger writes, in a message sent 11:31 PM 1/10/03 -0600: >Kayta said (Hi, Kayta!) > >>Some people I know are getting together a bid to do a CostumeCon in San >>Jose, CA, in a few years (can't remember the number they're going for, >>maybe three or four years away). But that should be close enough for you >>to get to, and long enough away that you can finance the trip. I'll even >>be there, having volunteered to run their doll competition for them. >>Kayta > >CC 26, in 2008. (not that long at all......) If I remember that I will turn 58 that year, it will come faster than I want it to. > CC 23: Provo, UT The Golden Spike Ceremony place, where the two transcontinental railroads met? >>www.magicthreads.com > >Ah, yes...Magic Threads....The owner/artist, Julie McCullough, lived in >Lincoln, NE for several years. I love her stuff...Want to do something >full size based on something of hers someday. Nobody's legs are that long. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 11:47:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17397 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:47:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BGmOi1019303; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BGmA8x029275; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:48:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BGkH8x028907 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:46:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18XOlh-0000k0-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:45:58 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with French translation on fabric References: <20030108185203.66120.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> <000001c2b827$3e831ad0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> In-Reply-To: <000001c2b827$3e831ad0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:08:50 +0000 Status: RO Any chance of a piccy? It looks like definetely from somwhere in what is now France, but there are all sorts of variation depending on time and place through the middle ages, quite apart from interesting spellings. I could pass it on to a friend who studies Old French. Sometimes you can get caught out, for example "ja" is easy to read as a mis-spelling of "je", but it actually equates to "jamais" - never. Jean Saragrace Knauf wrote >Through a friend of a friend I have some extra fabric that was >supposedly used at the Biltmore for decoration. It is done in >"renaissance" green, blue red etc and depicts a man and woman on either >side of a ship. It has a saying across the top (like might have been >used for heraldry) that says: > > "Si na bles n'a dessouby (the last two letters of that word are a guess >since the lettering is weird-but I think it is the word:dessous) les >cieuix je ne." > > >The best I can do is: > > "So I do not wound under the skys" > > Don't laugh too hard!! Any help is appreciated. > >Sg > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 12:49:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17846 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:49:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BHnAiB021664; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:50:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BH9E8x004052; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop018.verizon.net (pop018pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BH7c8x003722 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by pop018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20030111170730.LIYN4558.pop018.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:07:30 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at pop018.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:07:30 -0600 Message-Id: <20030111170730.LIYN4558.pop018.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:07:30 -0500 Status: RO > > From: Marsha Hamilton > Date: 2003/01/10 Fri PM 04:41:45 EST > To: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations > > Plimoth Plantation used to sell an audio tape (I have a copy) called > "O FOR A MUSE OF FOYRE!" by Richard Scollins and Ram's Bottom. It was $9.95 > back in the day and demonstrates the accent used by interpretive staff at > Plimoth Plantation. > > Foyre (like foyer) by the way is the pronunciation of "fire". If you listen > to the tape enough times, you can pick up the accent which is rough, vaguely > rural English, fun to try. > > I didn't find the tape listed on Plimoth's website but > they may be able to assist if you contact them. Good luck. > > Marsha > --------- The tape is still available, though I am having trouble remembering where I last saw it. Try Sykes Sutlery. It is NOT however THE accent used at Plimoth. It was produced by a British Company. Plimoth uses several different dialects reflecting the main areas of England that the Pilgrim's originally came from. They are expected to learn the dialect assigned to their character. The interpreters there are also taught a smattering of Nederlander since they had been leaving there. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 12:55:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17866 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:55:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BHv2i1022014; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BHv1pO015947; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BHuspO015916 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31733 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:08:16 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:08:16 -0600 (CST) Status: RO I know when I'm out of my element ... I don't do Italian. And a friend of mine has asked me what the best approach would be for an Italian man's shirt. He's with a combat techniques group that does demonstrations, and he wants something to wear for practices that is consistent with the time period of the early fencing manual he's working from -- 1409. (I've got a question out to him on exactly where in Italy, but it probably doesn't matter to him.) I could help him for England and France, but Italy was doing different things at this point. He doesn't want something too fancy or poufy. It is for work, not "pretty," so should be an everyday shirt suitable to a military man from the period, and not so full it will interfere with the physical action of fencing. The garment should be suitable for wearing by itself. This is where my knowledge breaks down, as shirts were still essentially underwear in England/France and cut accordingly. I have some Flemish illustrations of visible shirts from 1440 or so that I could draw on, but Italian resources would be better. Complication: My friend does not sew, and the woman who will be doing his sewing has never done historical costume. She has asked for a pattern or guide; she's smart and could certainly work from diagrams. So, is there a site or source for a pattern or construction method that would be appropriate to this particular time? I'm sure there are a lot of "generic medieval" shirt designs out there, but I wouldn't know which one comes closest to the right techniques and look, not without doing significant research that I don't have the time or desire to do right now. So I'm hoping that someone else out there has already done that research and can tell me off the top of your head where to find: -- an existing pattern or construction diagram suitable for this period, either a modern (but researched) version, a diagram of an extant garment, or an article covering this style/construction -- or, failing that, the key details characteristic of shirts in this period, e.g. use of collars or cuffs, neckline shape and fastening, use of a yoke, rectalinear cut vs. set-in sleeves, gores, length, number of body panels, pleatings or gatherings, etc., and a general idea of where you got the information -- or, failing that, one good book that has many suitable pictures. (Please don't direct me to books that "might be a good place to start looking." I do know how to start basic research from scratch, but this is *not* what I have time to do right now.) Many, many thanks in advance. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 14:12:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18214 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:12:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BJE3i1026863; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BJE1pO006665; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium.btinternet.com (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BJDdpO006540 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:13:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-20-22.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.20.22] helo=dan) by einsteinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18XR4c-0000BV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:13:38 +0000 Message-ID: <002801c2b9a6$21701b20$161427d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:17:45 -0000 Status: RO Robin wrote: Subject: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions > I know when I'm out of my element ... I don't do Italian. And a friend of > mine has asked me what the best approach would be for an Italian man's > shirt. He's with a combat techniques group that does demonstrations, and > he wants something to wear for practices that is consistent with the time > period of the early fencing manual he's working from -- 1409. ... > He doesn't want something too fancy or poufy. It is for work, not > "pretty," so should be an everyday shirt suitable to a military man from > the period, and not so full it will interfere with the physical action of > fencing. The garment should be suitable for wearing by itself. It sounds to me as if he's got hold of the new translation of Fiore del Liberi da Premariacco's 'Flos Duallatorum' (c.1409 - 1410) published in 2002; it was said to be a synthesis of many different styles encountered by the author over 50 years or so of fighting. The nice thing is that the original was illustrated, and a few of the illustrations are available on the web; see, for example: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/other/EXTRACT.htm You will note the absence of a shirt bearing any resemblance to the one your friend requires, which is just as well since no-one in their right minds, then or now, practises with any sword or knife, blunt, edged, pointed or serrated, just wearing a shirt. That was restricted to bad Hollywood movies. At the very least he needs leather, and up from that it's mail/armour of some size, shape or form. The cloak work discussed in the treatise was also an integral part of fighting methods, and for obvious reasons practise can only be done with a cloak. The crown is optional:-) Actually, it's there to identify the winner of the exchange, and so is superfluous in any practise session. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 14:30:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18247 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:30:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BJW4i1028003; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BJW0pO011305; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BJVYpO011188 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA32070 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:42:56 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions In-Reply-To: <002801c2b9a6$21701b20$161427d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:42:56 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > It sounds to me as if he's got hold of the new translation of Fiore > del Liberi da Premariacco's 'Flos Duallatorum' (c.1409 - 1410) > published in 2002; it was said to be a synthesis of many different > styles encountered by the author over 50 years or so of fighting. Yep, that's the one. > You will note the absence of a shirt bearing any resemblance to the > one your friend requires, which is just as well since no-one in their > right minds, then or now, practises with any sword or knife, blunt, > edged, pointed or serrated, just wearing a shirt. That was restricted > to bad Hollywood movies. As it stands now, he is practicing in a modern t-shirt. I suspect heat at the practice site is an issue here. He wants something suitable for practice that would replace the t-shirt with something more physically appropriate. (I think this is as much for his own experience and mental state as any issue of what people see. I'm sure it doesn't *feel* authentic to practice in a t-shirt.) I would guess, though I haven't asked (and I will), that they use some sort of protective gear (masks, vests) that are acceptable by modern safety standards when they are using weapons that can cause harm to the unprotected body. If he's wearing that over the t-shirt, then it's still a t-shirt he needs to replace, since he would not be replacing the safety gear with period leather vests, mail, etc. I will have to ask if they have or use the latter for demonstrations. I think their emphasis is the study of the mechanics of various periods' fighting techniques, not doing costumed show. Thanks for the lead on the illos. I was just wondering if the manual were illustrated. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 15:52:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18538 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:52:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BKs4i1001227; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BKs1pO002883; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BKrjpO002801 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:53:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-4-221.cw2.jps.net ([216.119.4.221] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18XSdU-0003Vz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:53:44 -0800 Message-ID: <003001c2b9b4$97fa2480$dd0477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:01:18 -0800 Status: RO I have recently taken up renaissance fencing, although the real interested party in the sport is my son, and the guidelines for practice is that all skin should be covered, which leaves a few T-shirts out. Also, having a period sleeve (slightly poofy) impacts a bout and is an advantage as your opponent's sword can get caught in and you have the opportunity then to attack. Touches to your shirt fabric do not count against you. It's handy to practice in a period shirt for this reason especially if the group you are in uses period clothing in their tournaments. It's pretty common to wear only shirts for slow paced practice probably due to the heat factor. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions > I would guess, though I haven't asked (and I will), that they use some > sort of protective gear (masks, vests) that are acceptable by modern > safety standards when they are using weapons that can cause harm to the > unprotected body. If he's wearing that over the t-shirt, then it's still a > t-shirt he needs to replace, since he would not be replacing the safety > gear with period leather vests, mail, etc. I will have to ask if they have > or use the latter for demonstrations. I think their emphasis is the study > of the mechanics of various periods' fighting techniques, not doing > costumed show. > > Thanks for the lead on the illos. I was just wondering if the manual were > illustrated. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:00:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18577 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:00:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BL21i1001543; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BL20pO004932; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BL19pO004705 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0BL10Hl071582 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:01:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301112101.h0BL10Hl071582@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] just ... wow. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:01:00 -0800 (PST) Status: RO this is one of those "I'm speechless" sorts of auctions. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15723&item=2803287690 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:03:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18593 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:03:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BL52i1001629; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BL51pO005634; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BL4opO005591 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:04:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32249 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:16:13 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions In-Reply-To: <003001c2b9b4$97fa2480$dd0477d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:16:13 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > It's handy to practice in a period shirt for this reason especially if > the group you are in uses period clothing in their tournaments. It's > pretty common to wear only shirts for slow paced practice probably due > to the heat factor. Great! So tell me about your period shirts :-) ... what period, what design? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:27:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18768 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:27:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLT4i1002640; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:29:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLT1pO012266; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail5.kc.rr.com (fe5.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLSvpO012236 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail5.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:22:58 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030111153037.009face0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030106120321.027289e0@blue.ucdavis.edu> <5.2.0.9.2.20030106120321.027289e0@blue.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:32:09 -0600 Status: RO Harper House sells them: http://www.longago.com/edward.html Sheryl Nance-Durst At 02:19 PM 1/11/03 +0200, you wrote: >On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > > There is one pattern from Promenade but I haven't made that one up yet. > > Carolynn reviewed it on the GBACG site > > http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/promenade.htm. > >Where can one get Promenade Patterns, BTW? Do they have a web page >somewhere? > >-- >Lynoure Rajamaki >lynoure@tuug.fi > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:31:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18784 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:31:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLX1i1002791; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLX0pO013329; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail8.kc.rr.com (mail8.kc.rr.com [24.94.162.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLWkpO013261 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail8.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:31:23 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030111153344.00a021f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. In-Reply-To: <200301112101.h0BL10Hl071582@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:35:59 -0600 Status: RO They want $3000 for that!?! That picture is a scan from the cover of a commercial pattern! You may be speechless, but I can think of a few choice words... Sheryl Nance-Durst At 01:01 PM 1/11/03 -0800, you wrote: >this is one of those "I'm speechless" sorts of auctions. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15723&item=2803287690 > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:34:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18808 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:34:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLa2i1002855; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLa0pO014055; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLYUpO013693 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:34:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0BLYPJI071844 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:34:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301112134.h0BLYPJI071844@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Sheryl Nance-Durst" at Jan 11, 2003 03:32:09 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:34:25 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I started a 1913 dress, but never finished it since I ended up being in another state the weekend the even was going to be -- there are some good links for undergarments and other resources that I found, though: http://www.sewhipithurts.com/archives/cat_1914_garden_dress.shtml > > Harper House sells them: > http://www.longago.com/edward.html > > Sheryl Nance-Durst > > At 02:19 PM 1/11/03 +0200, you wrote: > >On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > > > > There is one pattern from Promenade but I haven't made that one up yet. > > > Carolynn reviewed it on the GBACG site > > > http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/promenade.htm. > > > >Where can one get Promenade Patterns, BTW? Do they have a web page > >somewhere? > > > >-- > >Lynoure Rajamaki > >lynoure@tuug.fi > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:37:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18824 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:37:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLd2i1003008; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLd2pO014771; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLb3pO014294 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:34:17 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030111153918.00a00270@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] You Never Know In-Reply-To: <007a01c2b8e8$e2c3c740$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:40:16 -0600 Status: RO Didn't I read an article on this subject in Smithsonian magazine several years ago? Sheryl Nance-Durst At 03:43 PM 1/10/03 -0500, you wrote: >It always surprises me just who is using my website. I just got a curator a >museum of Natural History in California. They wanted to use a photo on my >1908 McCall's webpage in an exhibit. >http://www.costumegallery.com/McCalls/May_1908/Ladies_Hats.htm They want to >use the image in the lower left, second row in an exhibit. I told her that >I had a lot prettier hat photos that I would be glad share. No, she wanted >this specific image. This left me wondering why. Look at the description >under the hat... the word "aigrettes". The aigrette are the white feathers >on the hat. The exhibit is about birds and those drove to near extinction. >She told me that the aigrette bird was drove to near extinction by the >fashion industry using their feathers on hats. Later on, laws prevented the >use of certain bird feathers on hats, including the aigrette. > >I learned something new! > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:42:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18853 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:42:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLi3i1003153; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLi1pO015966; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLhdpO015903 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:43:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-4-221.cw2.jps.net ([216.119.4.221] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18XTPm-0005su-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:43:38 -0800 Message-ID: <004701c2b9bb$8fb01620$dd0477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] fencing shirts - attn: Glenda Robinson Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:51:12 -0800 Status: RO umm........didn't I say I only recently took up the sport? The group that I am in is a fencing school and so far they have had little costume standards or even knowledge of the subject although they do perform at Renaissance Fairs. They have recently settled upon being late the 1500's King's guard - French, unfortunately most dress like they are from the 1630's. In the last 72 hours I have agreed to do a bit of research for them and write up a few costuming tips. I haven't even started, so sorry, I can't be of any further assistance. I will say though it has been interesting to observe a bunch of fencers with little historical knowledge (or concern) of costumes decide what to wear. Invariably they encourage each other to have slashed sleeves simply due to the advantage it gives them when fighting, again, the sword does occasionally get tangled in the sleeves. There is a Glenda Robinson who has been lurking on this list. She is with the Routier's - The Pike and Musket Society a group well known for their costuming and fencing skills. Glenda, have you any suggestions for Robin? Cheers, Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions > > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > It's handy to practice in a period shirt for this reason especially if > > the group you are in uses period clothing in their tournaments. It's > > pretty common to wear only shirts for slow paced practice probably due > > to the heat factor. > > Great! So tell me about your period shirts :-) ... what period, what > design? > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:52:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18896 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:52:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLs5i1003575; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLs1pO018712; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLrmpO018662 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:53:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32394 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:05:11 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] fencing shirts - attn: Glenda Robinson In-Reply-To: <004701c2b9bb$8fb01620$dd0477d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:05:11 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > The group that I am in is a fencing school and so far they have had > little costume standards or even knowledge of the subject although > they do perform at Renaissance Fairs. They have recently settled upon > being late the 1500's King's guard - French, unfortunately most dress > like they are from the 1630's. In the last 72 hours I have agreed to > do a bit of research for them and write up a few costuming tips. I > haven't even started, so sorry, I can't be of any further assistance. You've been a help already. Thanks. > There is a Glenda Robinson who has been lurking on this list. She is > with the Routier's - The Pike and Musket Society a group well known > for their costuming and fencing skills. Glenda, have you any > suggestions for Robin? And in case Glenda missed my earlier post, I'm inquiring on behalf of a friend who wants a shirt appropriate for c. 1400 Italian fencing practice. Truth is, though, anyone who has knowledge of c. 1400 Italian shirts can give me some clues, regardless of whether they have fencing experience. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:56:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18906 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:56:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLw1i1003754; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLw0pO019851; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLvGpO019592 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:57:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BM0Tmm020825 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:00:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3E20937F.5000302@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hint for making 1913 evening dress References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030106120321.027289e0@blue.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:58:23 -0800 Status: RO Try this link: http://www.longago.com/edward.html There are two in a row, about half way down. Theresa Eacker Ella Lynoure Rajamaki wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > >>There is one pattern from Promenade but I haven't made that one up yet. >>Carolynn reviewed it on the GBACG site >>http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/promenade.htm. >> > > Where can one get Promenade Patterns, BTW? Do they have a web page > somewhere? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 16:59:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18941 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:59:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BM0xi1003877; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BM0upO020617; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BLufpO019410 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:56:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-20-22.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.20.22] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18XTcN-0001gT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:56:39 +0000 Message-ID: <003901c2b9bc$e6f4fa80$161427d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <003001c2b9b4$97fa2480$dd0477d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 22:00:49 -0000 Status: RO Lisa wrote: > I have recently taken up renaissance fencing, although the real interested > party in the sport is my son, and the guidelines for practice is that all > skin should be covered, which leaves a few T-shirts out. >Also, having a > period sleeve (slightly poofy) impacts a bout and is an advantage as your > opponent's sword can get caught in and you have the opportunity then to > attack. Touches to your shirt fabric do not count against you. It's handy > to practice in a period shirt for this reason especially if the group you > are in uses period clothing in their tournaments. It's pretty common to > wear only shirts for slow paced practice probably due to the heat factor. I find that incredible. Someone is going to die, and it could be you, or your son. Of course, if you were lucky you might just lose an eye, and perhaps acquire some brain damage with it. No-one with any experience with fencing taught by professionals could imagine that 'slow paced practise' without proper safety precautions is safe; and a person who imagines that a cotton t-shirt is cooler than a linen shirt under leather doesn't seem to know much about that either. Still, I suppose it will make lots of money for the lawyers. You might care to check your health insurance, however; it is very unlikely that you would be covered for injuries acquired in such a fashion. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 17:03:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18978 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:03:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BM4ci1004080; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:04:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BM4bpO021626; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:04:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BM0PpO020427 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:00:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60CEB10F8CB for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:00:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C2E3010F20D for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:00:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <07f701c2b9bc$a6a77de0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030111153344.00a021f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:58:59 -0500 Status: RO I'd be more impressed if the seller had some idea of exactly what century they were dealing with... Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheryl Nance-Durst" To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. > They want $3000 for that!?! > That picture is a scan from the cover of a commercial pattern! > > You may be speechless, but I can think of a few choice words... > > Sheryl Nance-Durst > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 17:06:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19002 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:06:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BM83i1004202; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BM81pO022555; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BM6dpO022145 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32455 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:18:02 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030111153344.00a021f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:18:02 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Sheryl Nance-Durst wrote: > They want $3000 for that!?! > That picture is a scan from the cover of a commercial pattern! You are apparently not the only one who noticed. This is at the bottom of the page, with the addition dating from early this morning: <> That wording is so opaque I'm not quite sure what all that is supposed to mean -- "contemporary reproduction" could refer to the garment on offer or the image they've posted, and "this gown" might be the one in the picture or the one they're selling. "Safeguarding the dressmaking process"? Does that mean they're going to sell a dress made from the pattern (but don't usually), because ebay buyers presumably want modern fitting and manufacture? Or does it mean that they're just showing a modern (copyrighted!) picture in this listing but they really use period methods when sewing? And if so, is that Victorian methods ("19th century interpretation of an 18th century gown") or 18th century methods? If I were buying, I'd sure like to see a picture of what they can really do, not some modern pattern photo of someone else's work. Hmm, that must be 20th century interpretation of 19th century interpretation of an 18th century gown... I also notice they offer "pure satin or taffeta." Would that be silk or polyester? Sounds like they're aiming for the bridal/evening/fancy-dress/revival market, not for anyone who actually knows anything about historically made clothing or wants an authentic reproduction. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15723&item=2803287690 --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 17:30:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19100 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:30:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BMW4i1005053; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BMW1pO028849; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BMVBpO028588 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:31:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0194.cvx24-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.210.194]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18XU9m-0003pQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:31:10 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:32:20 -0800 Status: RO > They want $3000 for that!?! > That picture is a scan from the cover of a commercial pattern! > > You may be speechless, but I can think of a few choice words... > > Sheryl Nance-Durst > >At 01:01 PM 1/11/03 -0800, you wrote: > > this is one of those "I'm speechless" sorts of auctions. > > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15723&item=2803287690 Yeah, and the heading is, and i quote, "18th Century Couture Gown". Farther down they write, "THIS GOWN IS A 19th CENTURY INTERPRETATION OF AN 18TH CENTURY GOWN". Sheesh. It's a 20th c. interpretation of a 19th c. gown, not very good 1870s. I forget which of the major US pattern companies it is, Simplicity, i think... I wonder what century they think they're living in? Confused they are... among other things... Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 17:33:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19121 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:33:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BMZ1i1005161; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BMZ0pO029611; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:35:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0BMVspO028794 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:31:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-120-92-96.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.120.92.96 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2003 22:31:53 -0000 Message-ID: <003d01c2b9c1$42552c20$605c7843@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <200301112101.h0BL10Hl071582@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:32:00 -0800 Status: RO Ok, they are "custom designing" a dress from a commercial pattern? Using mail order specs and offering no money back if dress doesn't fit? hmmmm angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 1:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] just ... wow. > > > this is one of those "I'm speechless" sorts of auctions. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15723&item=2803287690 > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 17:46:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19188 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:46:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BMm3i1005707; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BMm1pO003037; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0BMlrpO002968 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:47:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0BNBaI3005829 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:11:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0BNBZXK005827 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:11:35 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301111811.35583.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0BMlrpO002968 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:11:35 -0500 Status: RO On Saturday 11 January 2003 05:18 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: [text cut here] > > Sounds like they're aiming for the bridal/evening/fancy-dress/revival > market, not for anyone who actually knows anything about historically made > clothing or wants an authentic reproduction. You can say that again. To me, the picture looks more like a bad imitation of an 1880s style than anything else. 18th Century, my eye! -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 19:08:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19537 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:08:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0A3i1009292; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0A0WS023673; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13305.mail.yahoo.com (web13305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0C09AWS023494 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:09:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030112000910.33724.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:09:10 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:09:10 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Wouldn't it be better/more productive to email the person with the apparently offending eBay auction instead of ranting here? Just a thought, don't stone/flail me. ;-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 19:12:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19549 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:12:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0E1i1009441; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0E1WS024710; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0DfWS024632 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0C0Da7M073021 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:13:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301120013.h0C0Da7M073021@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "=?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?=" at Jan 12, 2003 12:09:10 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:13:36 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I did, already. with documentation. I mailed her two days ago, or I would never have posted here ;) > > Wouldn't it be better/more productive to email the person with the apparently > offending eBay auction instead of ranting here? > > Just a thought, don't stone/flail me. ;-) > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 19:15:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19563 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:15:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0Gji1009540; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:16:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0GiWS025475; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail016.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail016.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0AaWS023790 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:10:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail016.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0C0AUX10133 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:10:30 +1100 Message-ID: <007f01c2b9cf$220f6bc0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030111153344.00a021f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:11:19 +1100 Status: RO > They want $3000 for that!?! > That picture is a scan from the cover of a commercial pattern! > > You may be speechless, but I can think of a few choice words... Hey, I've already got the pattern here (yes it is Simplicity). Although I know it's not really historically correct, I think it's a pretty dress and I used the bustle inside the train to make a bustle to go under a different skirt, so it has been useful. Wish I could get away with charging $3,000 to make a commercial pattern, altering slightly to fit a specific person. Would give my planned costume career a good start!!! Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 19:18:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19575 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:18:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0K2i1009666; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0K1WS026334; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail013.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail013.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0FwWS025244 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:15:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail013.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0C0FqN10600 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:15:52 +1100 Message-ID: <00a501c2b9cf$e1f0f8f0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <20030112000910.33724.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:16:41 +1100 Status: RO > Wouldn't it be better/more productive to email the person with the apparently > offending eBay auction instead of ranting here? But then we'd have nothing to whinge about :-) K _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 11 19:40:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19682 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:40:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0g2i1010628; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0g1WS001649; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C0fZWS001403 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:41:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-16-117.o1.jps.net ([216.119.16.117] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18XWBx-0004te-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:41:34 -0800 Message-ID: <001501c2b9d4$62e0cc20$751077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <003001c2b9b4$97fa2480$dd0477d8@pavilion> <003901c2b9bc$e6f4fa80$161427d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fencing garments Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:48:51 -0800 Status: RO Stevie wrote: > > I find that incredible. Someone is going to die, and it could be you, > or your son. Of course, if you were lucky you might just lose an eye, > and perhaps acquire some brain damage with it. No-one with any > experience with fencing taught by professionals could imagine that > 'slow paced practise' without proper safety precautions is safe; and a > person who imagines that a cotton t-shirt is cooler than a linen shirt > under leather doesn't seem to know much about that either. Still, I > suppose it will make lots of money for the lawyers. You might care to > check your health insurance, however; it is very unlikely that you > would be covered for injuries acquired in such a fashion. > 'slow paced practice's does not mean a slow paced bout with an opponent. It means practicing various parries and reposts in slow motion to develop "muscle memory". They are done to develop form and lightest touch. If you saw it you wouldn't be alarmed. I am referring to beginners too. For real bouts at any pace, face masks, leather gloves, gorgets, cups etc. are all required. But......a padded doublet is not, although anyone sensible wears one. It's not a rinky dink school either, in terms of fencing standards anyway. One of the six maestros of the school is Brooke Boyer, coach of the last US Olympic Fencing team. Maybe it is different in England where it is colder, but I have found both in the US see http://home.wwdb.org/atkinsonk/public_html/Tournament_Photos.html ) and in Australia see http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~pssf/index2.html many historic fencers do fight in a white shirt or just a shirt in general. I am more precautious myself. Also, I meant a linen shirt is cooler than a shirt and a doublet. Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:01:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12420 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:01:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI1Bi1015058; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:01:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI0tPV025192; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:00:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C4jsWS025878 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:45:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil2199.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.199]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C4jkDQ000068 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:45:52 -0500 Message-ID: <3E20F3A0.D107880E@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:48:32 -0500 Status: RO Hi, All. I believe that I am somewhat qualified to put in my commentary on this subject. I do theatrical, reconstruction and reenactment combat, armored and not, and have for some years, as well as being familiar with men's clothing from various periods. The subject of safety is near and dear to my heart, having written a number of combat rules/conventions currently in use by various groups. Certainly, the shirt in this case is not meant or intended as any sort of protection against injury, so any consideration that it is or should be is out of the range of this group's mandate. As to construction, Robin, something in a natural fabric made on similar lines to the St. Louis shirt pictured in "Cut my Cote", minus the crossed-over collar reenforcement, should be fine. Collars at that period were small to non-existent, from what I've seen in paintings, etc. Plain rectangular cuts with underarm gussets, cut comfortably but not too fully, should suffice. Some of the work on this period in clothing would be covered by both La Belle Companie here in the US (I think the URL is the same as the name of the group) and Gerry Embleton/ John Howe's folks (Companie of St. George in the UK and Switzerland, same info as above). Contact these folks for more historical details, if that is what you wish. They are good folks with topnotch research. Hope this helps, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:02:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12434 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:02:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI2di1015231; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:02:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI2cPV026137; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:02:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0C6LMWS014887 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWndibp+URMDUoBL4GkqNuD2+X8tMLBvfCQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNA7TQG7; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 22:20:50 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. Message-ID: <20030112.011902.-535031.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 01:19:02 -0500 Status: RO Oh, good grief! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:03:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12439 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:03:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI3fi1015352; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI3ePV026746; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:03:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.donet.com (mail.donet.com [64.56.96.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C7xwWS002274 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:59:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1487 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2003 07:59:52 -0000 X-Sender: mjh@pearlandplume.com Received: from dhcp065-024-125-020.columbus.rr.com (HELO ?65.24.125.20?) (65.24.125.20) by mail.donet.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2003 07:59:52 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pronunciations and Plimoth From: Marsha Hamilton To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030111170730.LIYN4558.pop018.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 02:56:48 -0500 Status: RO Ron, Thanks for the update. I was going from memory and concerned I was off on the details about the speech patterns used in Plimoth. I've been to Plimoth Plantation twice now, once as a tourist and once in costume (after hours) for a muster years ago. My daughter and I stayed in what was then the Soule house. It's a great place. At night the water is not that far off, the stars are bright, you're safely behind the barricades, the animals are making tons of noise, the flush bathroom is disguised as a Goat House, it was wonderful. But very hot in summer. The prize for hot may have gone to an event we attended at Old Salem Village. Even so, the evening breeze off the water, a one room house with open windows (as in no-glass, hole in the wall) made the temperature just bearable. Yes, linen is a wonder fiber. I've grown to loathe cotton in comparison for heat and water wicking inferiority. Really learned it the hard way at an event at St. Marie's Cittie during a deluge of Biblical proportions. Marsha ------- on 1/11/03 12:07 PM, r.carnegie@verizon.net at r.carnegie@verizon.net wrote: >> From: Marsha Hamilton >> Date: 2003/01/10 Fri PM 04:41:45 EST >> To: >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations >> >> Plimoth Plantation used to sell an audio tape (I have a copy) called >> "O FOR A MUSE OF FOYRE!" by Richard Scollins and Ram's Bottom.... >> >> --------- > > The tape is still available, though I am having trouble remembering where I > last saw it. Try Sykes Sutlery. It is NOT however THE accent used at > Plimoth. It was produced by a British Company. Plimoth uses several different > dialects reflecting the main areas of England that the Pilgrim's originally > came from. They are expected to learn the dialect assigned to their > character. The interpreters there are also taught a smattering of Nederlander > since they had been leaving there. > > Cheers, > Ron > > R.Carnegie@verizon.net > "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." > R. Bach > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:03:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12440 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:03:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI2Mi1015196; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:02:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI2MPV025981; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:02:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C5RYWS004719 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 22:27:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil2199.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.199]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C5RcDQ025491 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:27:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3E20FD82.95ACA9D1@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations References: <20030111170730.LIYN4558.pop018.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:30:42 -0500 Status: RO Hi. If the tape was done by Stuart Peachey and his folks, Terry and Raff (Sykes) may be able to acquire it for you, as they are the main importer to the US of Stuart's material. If it was produced specifically for PP, though, you'd have to try their online giftshop. Good Luck, Mike T. PS Another good knowlegeable resource is Dr, Jeff Forgang (used to be Singman), a curator at the Higgins Armor Museum in Worcester, Mass. MJT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:03:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12446 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:03:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI3Zi1015339; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:03:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI3YPV026665; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:03:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C7KxWS025735 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:20:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.34]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8L00IZIB2WM7@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:20:59 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. In-reply-to: <200301112101.h0BL10Hl071582@jabberwock.wonderland.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030111231828.0516fcd0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:19:21 -0800 Status: RO >this is one of those "I'm speechless" sorts of auctions. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15723&item=2803287690 I went there, thanx for posting it, but I bet I know why you're speechless. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:03:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12450 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:03:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI3ki1015377; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI3iPV026789; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:03:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0C8FZWS005046 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 01:15:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([24.103.127.8]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20030112081437.GQGT214174.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 03:14:37 -0500 Message-ID: <00d401c2ba12$c39dedc0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030110231359.00b9b3f8@radiks.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Several things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.127.8] using ID at Sun, 12 Jan 2003 03:14:36 -0500 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 03:15:27 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre & Sandy Pettinger" To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 12:31 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Several things > Kayta said (Hi, Kayta!) > > >Some people I know are getting together a bid to do a CostumeCon in San > >Jose, CA, in a few years (can't remember the number they're going for, > >maybe three or four years away). But that should be close enough for you > >to get to, and long enough away that you can finance the trip. I'll even > >be there, having volunteered to run their doll competition for them. > >Kayta > > CC 26, in 2008. (not that long at all......) > > >Awww....I would *so* love to go to Costume-con, but not sure I can warrant > >the expense for hotels and such (plus I'm not sure I could convince hubby to > >drive all the way to Chicago, since we wouldn't be able to afford to > >fly...). *sigh* > > > >-- Maral > > Where are you, Maral? The Costume-Con's after this one are: > CC 22: Atlanta > CC 23: Provo, UT > CC 24 (bid): Des Moines, IA > CC 25 (bid): St. Louis > CC 26 (bid): San Jose > Hopefully one of them will be close enough! > Ehehehe....I'm in Toronto. Bleh... -- Maral _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:04:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12454 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:04:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI4Qi1015491; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:04:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI4PPV027335; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:04:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f177.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.177]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0CFGcWS014444 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 08:16:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 07:16:33 -0800 Received: from 211.26.52.61 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:16:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [211.26.52.61] From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2003 15:16:33.0382 (UTC) FILETIME=[9752A860:01C2BA4D] Subject: [h-cost] Pluderhose Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 01:46:33 +1030 Status: RO
Hello.
 
Im making pluderhose for my brother using Janet Arnolds Patterns of Fashion as my guide.
As yet Ive had no problems with how they are to be constructed. What I would like to know is has anyone had any experiance in making them?? Any tips and tricks, especially for the shaped backside. They are a facinating garment and I cant wait to see how they turnout! 
 
Rebecca

get 2 months FREE* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:05:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12461 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:05:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI5ai1015684; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI5aPV028109; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0CH6KWS007711 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m120.in-tch.com [216.166.191.120]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0CGnn920388 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 09:49:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E21A0B1.AC5AE9BE@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian coif question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:06:57 -0700 Status: RO Hi, everybody. Hope you're having a good weekend. I've lost the original post that asked about Italian coifs, but I think I've actually found a few....One of those happy accidents (I was looking in a needlework book for something on opus anglicanum ). At any rate, in the little book _Medieval Craftsmen: Embroiderers_, by Kay Staniland, there's this great fresco (title page, and page 49), dated about 1470, and painted by Cosimo Tura and Francesco Cossa. It is called "The Triumph of Minerva." Apparently, it's from Ferrara--at the Palazzo Schifanoia. The women are performing a variety of textile-related activities such as embroidery and weaving. While virtually every female figure in the fresco seems to have a taped roll or braid of hair wound around her head, there's one woman (in the left foreground) wearing a wrapped turban-looking thing, and several women wearing what looks to me very much like a coif, _over_ those wrapped hairstyles. On a couple of the women, you can even see the tape or tie extending from the parts of the coif near the ear, and going under the wearer's chin (I'm assuming it's tied on). They seem to be a bit more, well, shaped, than the coifs I'm used to thinking of seeing on men from an earlier time. The bit by the women's ears is a little elongated--ISTR at least one that looked similar in a Holbein sketch. Also, I'd guess this is some sort of allegory , so I don't know if this style would be representative of women from a certain class, or only in an informal setting, or only from a certain region of the Italian peninsula, or what. But there ya go! Italian coifs! --sue, who will be adding some to her wardrobe to disguise her woefully inadequate hair ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:06:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12467 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:06:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI5ji1015727; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:05:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI5jPV028228; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:05:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0CHVJWS013536 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:31:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8M00CS13BV9G@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 12:31:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3E21A670.8000100@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Re: just ... wow. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:31:28 -0600 Status: RO And I felt bad for charging $800.00 for a gown with 45 hours of hand work, that was not "THIS GOWN IS A 19th CENTURY INTERPRETATION OF AN 18TH CENTURY GOWN" It was historically accurate. Sheesh.. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:08:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12477 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:08:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI8gi1016237; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI8fPV000442; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:08:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0CLcU7b012917 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:38:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from Osmondia@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.29.35f45c0d (3972) for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 16:38:17 -0500 (EST) From: Osmondia@aol.com Message-ID: <29.35f45c0d.2b533a49@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_29.35f45c0d.2b533a49_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 16:38:17 EST Status: RO --part1_29.35f45c0d.2b533a49_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just finished filling out a report form to have ebay look into this. I did this because they are violating many ebay policies. They are not showing the item they are selling. On Ebay you have to sell an item ... not an item to be made. That is a big no-no, See what Ebay's opinion of their new disclaimer will be. Osmondia --part1_29.35f45c0d.2b533a49_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just finished filling out a report form to have ebay look into this.  I did this because they are violating many ebay policies.  They are not showing the item they are selling.  On Ebay you have to sell an item ... not an item to be made.  That is a big no-no,

See what Ebay's opinion of their new disclaimer will be.

Osmondia --part1_29.35f45c0d.2b533a49_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:08:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12481 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:08:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI8li1016286; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:08:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI8kPV000512; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0CM4B7b019359 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:04:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f54.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.84]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 05AD85EE71B for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:04:10 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000801c2ba86$e6140190$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] sack dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:06:46 +0100 Status: RO Hi! If you would like to look over my shoulder and follow my work in making a sack dress, you can have a look here: www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sack_dress_1770.htm I have ben making this dress the last 14 days, and worked very hard besides my full time job. Dont let yourself misjudge the colour of the dress. My dig.cam uses two high flashlight and the colour is not right. It is shot dupioni dark red and dark green. The closeup picture of the sleave shows the right colour. I will try to make some pictures tomorrow in daylight. I have finished all the pieces and sewed them together. Then i have to make all the decoration with gathered frills along the overskirt and along the bodice. And i must make a compare and decorate this two with gathered frills. A friend was in need of a dress. Her dress was torned apart when she took her old dress off. (It was an old second hand dress) Then she asked me for help. She is going to selebrate the birdhday of Gustav III at Svartsjø Castle in Sweden the 21. of january. Fortunately i have the day off tomorrow and the day after, so that i can finish the dress and send away for her in time!!! I have used 14 meter of silk for this dress. If you would like to see the society of Gustavs Skål wich is selebrating the birdsday of Gustav III you can have a look at this side: www.gustafsskal.nu They have some nice pictures i think. Many greetings Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:09:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12485 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:09:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI8ri1016313; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI8rPV000581; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0CMRJ7b024669 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id ABC6807F00F4; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 16:27:18 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id ABC67E10134; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 16:27:18 -0600 Message-ID: <014601c2ba89$d3776ba0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20030110163012.F1310-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] You Never Know X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:27:43 -0500 Status: RO Drea, I have no idea. I only know our local birds. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:10:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12492 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:10:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIACi1016583; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:10:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIACPV001516; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:10:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0D1wP7b014466 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 18:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.133]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h0D25VB28125 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:05:32 +1100 Message-ID: <0a5a01c2baa7$a6f87240$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] fencing shirts - attn: Glenda Robinson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:57:21 +1100 Status: RO Sorry, 14th century isn't my period regarding clothing at the moment. When I used to do this, it was a looong time ago when research wasn't what it is today, so everything I knew is really only worth forgetting now (and since my memory is stuffed, I have done so) :-) I have a lot of information on late 16th/early17th century fencing clothes, though. Not much use for then. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] fencing shirts - attn: Glenda Robinson > > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > > The group that I am in is a fencing school and so far they have had > > little costume standards or even knowledge of the subject although > > they do perform at Renaissance Fairs. They have recently settled upon > > being late the 1500's King's guard - French, unfortunately most dress > > like they are from the 1630's. In the last 72 hours I have agreed to > > do a bit of research for them and write up a few costuming tips. I > > haven't even started, so sorry, I can't be of any further assistance. > > You've been a help already. Thanks. > > > There is a Glenda Robinson who has been lurking on this list. She is > > with the Routier's - The Pike and Musket Society a group well known > > for their costuming and fencing skills. Glenda, have you any > > suggestions for Robin? > > And in case Glenda missed my earlier post, I'm inquiring on behalf of a > friend who wants a shirt appropriate for c. 1400 Italian fencing practice. > Truth is, though, anyone who has knowledge of c. 1400 Italian shirts can > give me some clues, regardless of whether they have fencing experience. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:11:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12499 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:11:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI8Ei1016121; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DI8CPV029898; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0CK5q7b021024 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03153 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:17:19 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <007101c2b812$94d05ac0$490124d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Houppelande construction (was: Fulling wool) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:17:19 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > I've done some experimenting with the cloths and some types of fur, > and I aim to test the finished article against the portraits, some of > which we have discussed recently. If you have any recommendations as > to construction I should be most interested. One of the problems with a term like "houppeland" is that it encompasses a fairly large set of variants. Because we use a single term for it, people tend to want to zero in on a single construction method as The One Way. I've identified a handful of approaches to the body construction, each of which creates a slightly different look, and many more variants for collars and sleeves. While there's probably no one right way, there are certainly some wrong ways ;-) I cannot think of any instance that calls for a waist seam, for example. I am inclined to cut the body in four panels plus gores (or else selvedge-to-selvedge panel additions), or possibly a front and back panel (again plus gores or parallel extensions). I would not use narrow fabric. High-quality fabric was available in fairly wide widths at this time, and the wealthy people who were wearing the houppelande would be using high-quality fabric. I'd figure about a meter wide as a fair norm I've run into in various places from this period, but that guess can be trumped by specific documentary evidence for your target locale. So you'll want to nail down which variant/look you're aiming to emulate. You've got your start by identifying some images to work from; next you need to ensure your set of images is from the same time/place slice (so you can consider combining elements across images, with care), and even then they may represent different construction methods. One of the important things to look at with houppelandes is the direction of the folds of the cloth. Do the folds fall from the shoulder level or from some point lower down? Do they point to the neck, shoulder point, or underarm? Are they parallel, or do they radiate or converge? With what speed and to what degree do the folds increase in depth? Each of these looks indicates a slightly different cutting method. I find it's easiest to choose a particular look and derive the construction by draping mockup fabric on a live body. There are a handful of tricks I play with: for some effects, you can make the shoulder seam slightly concave or dish-shaped (to create folds that radiate from the shoulder); in some cases you want to tilt the armhole so the bottom is much further out on the flat cloth than it will be on the body (this throws more fabric to the center); sometimes you want to curve the armhole into a J or a U shape (which creates the fold patterns that seem to radiate from the center front of the belt like a V; for a "sunburst" shape, combine this with the concave-cut shoulder seam). Most have center front openings, which may be short or longer, buttoned or laced or invisible, closed up or slightly open. I could spend a day writing up variations in sleeves and collars, so forgive me if I don't. Absolutely vital in all constructions I've used: You need a supportive undergarment, presumably a GFD, which was the dominant basic dress of this period. There is ample evidence that the houppelande is an outer layer over the basic dress, not worn directly over the chemise. The purpose of the belt over the houppelande is to contain the folds, not to support the bust. Most really catastrophic houppelandes I've seen try to use the belt to hold up the breasts, and the breasts droop over the belt or push down on it. This is Bad News. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:11:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12504 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:11:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIBji1016693; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:11:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIBjPV002691; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:11:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0D31E7b029226 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 20:01:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23464 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2003 03:01:13 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2003 03:01:13 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-89.sonic.net [209.148.112.89]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h0D31Cb28945 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:01:12 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3E222C0E.3030505@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Costume-related knit shirts at SF Bay Area Nordstrom's Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:01:34 -0800 Status: RO I bought three today while my husband was buying shoes. The brand is Skinny Minnie. They are arty looking women's knit shirts with irresistable Victorianish silkscreen printing. They are dyed subdued pastel earthtone colors, sage greens and pale golds and the like. Over that is silkscreening of other colors to give a mottled effect. And along with that are printed, in the same colorways, the title pages/logos of various Victorian magazines. When I saw shirts for the _Young Ladies Journal_, I had to have one (actually two, in different colors). I also bought one for _The Studio_, an Art Nouveau design magazine. They also had shirts for other Victorian magazines, and some seed catalogs and things like that, and a book with a Latin title. The style is kind of an undershirt with three-quarter sleeves. They run small, unless you want the skintight look. The price is $34. The sales clerk said all the San Francisco Bay Area Nordstrom's have them. I found them in what I think was a juniors section. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:12:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12539 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:12:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DICWi1016906; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:12:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DICWPV003268; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:12:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0D4vl7b025370 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m173.in-tch.com [216.166.191.173]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0D4fG929755 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:41:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E224771.D3B7D8A6@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Generalls Musick & Players at M.O.L. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:58:25 -0700 Status: RO Thanks, Kate. Are you in any of the pictures? Everyone's outfits look great! --sue, who has to hide her hair, too (not too short, but not long enough, either, and definitely too fine to do much with ) Kate M Bunting wrote: > > (Blushing) Many thanks for your kind words, Stevie! > > Our secretary is supposed to be setting up a website for the group; when this materialises, I'll let everyone have the address. You can see a picture of the dancers at the event at http://www.hants.gov.uk/basdance/index3.html > > To Sue who asked about my outfit - The bodice is a simplified version of the 1630s one in the V&A (see Nicole's website www.kipar.org under Costume - Surviving garments) made in a terracotta-coloured glazed cotton. The skirt is blue brocade with a small pattern. To hide my short hair I wear a semi-opaque black veil. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:13:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12544 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:13:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DICri1016997; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:12:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DICqPV003546; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0D5CV7b029205 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:12:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m173.in-tch.com [216.166.191.173]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0D4u0903936 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:56:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E224AE5.2FBC092@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery on 16'th century smock References: <20030110020800.68363.qmail@web41012.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:13:09 -0700 Status: RO Hi! The appropriateness of your intended embroidery technique and design to their intended uses on a high-necked shift (I'm assuming, on the collar?) would depend a bit on which country's style you were going after--England? the Germanies? France? Italian peninsula? There are some lovely, rich garments in the pictures I've seen--some of the German/Swiss smocks are particularly interesting. I think I've even seen a couple that use pearls as design elements, and, of course, there are the bits in the Bostocke sampler that are done with seed pearls and (IIRC) black seed beads. Your design, for some reason, is really reminding me of something from Arnold's PoF (1560-1620)...I think there are some pictures of skirt guards using embroidered flowers. Good luck with your project! --sue Tania Gruning wrote: > > I was wondering if a heraldic rose, satinstitched. in gold pink and > cream, with a pearl center would be period on a 16'th century smock. > The smock is high necked. and the I will use the double dogwood rose > design like the one of the tudor rose. It will be in a single design > colour. I have already tried the design out on a piece of linen and I > like it, but as far as I can see most smocks were decorated with > blackwork embroidery. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:14:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12548 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:14:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIEJi1017217; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:14:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIEIPV004456; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0D9FU7b016567 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 02:15:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0D9FQ126229.; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:15:26 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:15:22 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] You Never Know Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0D9FU7b016567 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:14:54 +0000 Status: RO Drea wrote: Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> drea@nospam 01/10/03 09:30pm >>> Is the "aigrette" related to the "egret" ? Yes, I think the bird (a type of heron) is "egret" and the tuft of its feathers used as decoration is the "aigrette". It wasn't the only bird put on the endangered list by Edwardian fashions. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:14:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12552 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:14:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIEBi1017188; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIEAPV004357; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:14:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40012.mail.yahoo.com (web40012.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0D8dQ7b010006 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 01:39:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113083921.79151.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:39:21 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: H-costume list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Missing digests/quiet list? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:39:21 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Is it me or was the list entirely dead yesterday? Either that or I am missing some digests. The last one I received was no 1695. Anyone else has this problem? Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:15:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12559 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:15:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIEji1017314; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:14:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIEiPV004853; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:14:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DCE17b013652 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.34]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8N004BPJBBS8@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 04:14:00 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030113041051.00a68590@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] eyestrain -> nearsightedness -> blindness? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 04:13:56 -0800 Status: RO Somebody explain to me this: If eyestrain does not cause nearsightedness, how come young lacemakers went blind from making lace too long in bad light, and how come certain stitches were called 'forbidden stitch' in China for allegedly making the embroiderers go blind? Or are these two urban legends? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:15:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12563 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:15:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIFfi1017508; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:15:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIFfPV005520; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:15:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DEgCvN014716 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 07:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18Y5mu-0002Fx-00; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:42:04 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 18Y5mu-0004fC-00; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:42:04 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Any advice on c.1800 patterns/underpinnings? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:42:04 -0500 (EST) Status: RO For the accessories to go with c. 1800 dresses, you can get patterns for the mitts, stockings, chemise, mob cap and bonnet from Kannik's Korner: http://www.kannikskorner.com/pataccess.htm Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:17:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12599 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:17:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIHFi1017752; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:17:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIHEPV006667; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:17:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DG32vN016131 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp229.directcon.net [206.170.184.229]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0DG2MId029874; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:02:24 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030113080615.00822610@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030111153344.00a021f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <200301112101.h0BL10Hl071582@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:06:15 -0800 Status: RO At 03:35 PM 01/11/2003 -0600, Sheryl Nance-Durst wrote: >They want $3000 for that!?! >That picture is a scan from the cover of a commercial pattern! This is the same seller we discussed a few months ago, who was selling an "Authentic Renaissance Wedding Dress" which she also caimed was made for the grandmother of the person she bought it from. She's had numerous other auctions with equally false claims. She's a crook, plain and simple. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:17:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12603 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:17:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIHPi1017790; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:17:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIHNPV006769; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21407.mail.yahoo.com (web21407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DGQjvN029278 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:26:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113162645.8820.qmail@web21407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.109] by web21407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:26:45 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Stunned (semi-OT) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:26:45 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Ok, it's not historic costume, but costume related. :-) I worked this past weekend as Security Top Watch for Rustycon (Bellevue, WA). One of my stipulations was that if I worked for them, I would be allowed to work in costume (previous directors had issues with this). I've been going to Northwest Cons for about 15 years now, and never been noticed by the Hall costume folks, although many other areas do so regularly. For the Masked Ball, I was working, which apparently annoyed the judges and actual participants. One participant presented me with her panelist ribbon as an impromptu costume award. One of the judges awarded me official hall costume awards for two of the costumes, and on Sunday, it was announced that the Judge's Choice award went to someone not actually entered, because she had been too serious about her duty as a Security officer, and I was pinned. *twitch* Angharat who is still stunned, and laughing, because the head judge was so annoyed at me for not entering. (comment not repeated, but it was funny) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:18:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12607 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:18:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIIUi1017999; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:18:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIITPV007526; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:18:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe51.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DHQuPV004654 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:26:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:26:51 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <20030112000910.33724.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2003 17:26:51.0097 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5750C90:01C2BB28] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:29:59 -0500 Status: RO I like when those kinds of discussions happen on the list - teaches me a little about what to look for and what not to do or to buy! Of course, this time I did know it was a Simplicity pattern, but I couldn't have been certain which period it was supposed to be.... So yes it might be good to email the eBay seller (though I doubt it will change anything), but I also like hearing the opinion of some of you here who know more about that period than I do! From: "N Kipar" > Wouldn't it be better/more productive to email the person with the apparently > offending eBay auction instead of ranting here? > > Just a thought, don't stone/flail me. ;-) > > Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:21:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12651 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:21:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIL5i1018401; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:21:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIL4PV009227; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIKHPV008700 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:20:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:17:17 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A2ADD9D008A; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:17:17 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:17:16 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Message-ID: <000b01c2bb30$55e5c0e0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20030113041051.00a68590@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Subject: [h-cost] hat feathers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:19:37 -0600 Status: RO My dictionary says an Egret is a white heron And an Aigrette is the tail feathers of such a bird, made into an ornament. BTW, did you know that the Audobon Society was started by two women who were appalled by how many birds were being killed to decorate hats earlier in the 20th Century? Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:26:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12668 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:26:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIQ2i1018903; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIQ1PV012168; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIPJPV011789 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07362 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:36:50 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions In-Reply-To: <3E20F3A0.D107880E@dandy.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:36:50 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, leigh tartaglio wrote: > Certainly, the shirt in this case is not meant or intended as any sort > of protection against injury, so any consideration that it is or > should be is out of the range of this group's mandate. Exactly. Thanks for stating so clearly. > As to construction, Robin, something in a natural fabric made on > similar lines to the St. Louis shirt pictured in "Cut my Cote", minus > the crossed-over collar reenforcement, should be fine. That was my first suggestion to him, but this shirt is French and more than a century earlier than what we're aiming for. It was body linen, never meant to be seen. Here's where the Italian issue comes in, since my understanding is that the Italian men were showing their shirts by 1400, and very likely using a more elaborate construction and styling. If I don't come up with anything solid as an Italian variant, my fallback will be exactly what you describe: > Plain rectangular cuts with underarm gussets, cut comfortably but not > too fully, should suffice. ...the generic medieval European shirt, but alas, not specifically Italian 1409. > Some of the work on this period in clothing would be covered by both > La Belle Companie here in the US (I think the URL is the same as the > name of the group) La Belle Compagnie, for those who are interested in seeing a really fine living history depiction of late 14th c. England, is at . I go back with the founders since before they created the group (through my husband, who goes back even further with them) and we have worked together often, on costume and other matters. I persuaded them to come out to lecture at Kalamazoo a couple of years ago and am pleased to say two of their members will be speaking for us again this spring, on practical considerations of pourpoints/gambesons for wearing under armor. Still, not any specific help for Italian there. England and France I'm fine on. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:32:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12696 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:32:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIWEi1019631; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:32:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIWAPV015873; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIV7PV015257 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:31:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.d5.21912c9e (4394) for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:30:42 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d5.21912c9e.2b545fd1_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] costume lecture re-scheduled Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:30:41 EST Status: RO --part1_d5.21912c9e.2b545fd1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. Colleen Gau's lecture, "Looking for the Perfect Bra," has been re-scheduled for Sunday, February 2, at 2:00 p.m. at the Riversdale House Museum, 4811 Riverdale Road, Riverdale Park MD. Dr. Gau is the co-author of "Uplift: the Bra in America," and will also be signing copies of her book. Cost of the lecture is $5.00. For more information call 301-864-0420. Ann Wass --part1_d5.21912c9e.2b545fd1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. Colleen Gau's lecture, "Looking for the Perfect Bra," has been re-scheduled for Sunday, February 2, at 2:00 p.m. at the Riversdale House Museum, 4811 Riverdale Road, Riverdale Park MD.  Dr. Gau is the co-author of "Uplift: the Bra in America," and will also be signing copies of her book.  Cost of the lecture is $5.00.
For more information call 301-864-0420.
Ann Wass
 --part1_d5.21912c9e.2b545fd1_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:33:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12705 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:33:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIX1i1019719; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIX0PV016443; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd5mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIWNPV016012 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:32:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr1so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.177]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8O0062J0SNRJ@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:31:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml4so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.148]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8O00CL60SNC3@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:31:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from orb.shaw.ca (h24-80-194-235.gv.shawcable.net [24.80.194.235]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8O0050K0SM7U@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:31:35 -0700 (MST) From: kris Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress In-reply-to: <000801c2ba86$e6140190$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: ionization@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030113103050.00b339c8@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:31:37 -0800 Status: RO At 11:06 PM 12/01/2003 +0100, Bjarne wrote: >Hi! >If you would like to look over my shoulder and follow my work in making a >sack dress, you can have a look here: >www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sack_dress_1770.htm Wow! That's absolutely incredible! Now I may have to add such a dress to my project list :] kris _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:43:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12740 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:43:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIc9i1020429; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIc8PV019600; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:38:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13306.mail.yahoo.com (web13306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DIbOPV019209 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:37:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113183723.71485.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:37:23 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <29.35f45c0d.2b533a49@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:37:23 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Osmondia@aol.com wrote: > I just finished filling out a report form to have ebay look into this. I did > > this because they are violating many ebay policies. They are not showing the > > item they are selling. On Ebay you have to sell an item ... not an item to > be made. That is a big no-no, > > See what Ebay's opinion of their new disclaimer will be. Well.... *getting ready to get stick for saying it but says it anyway* ... isn't that a bit mean, to report people? Okay so the dress won't be the period that it claims it is, but is that a crime, and most of all, is it your concern or anyone else's for that matter other than mentioning it to the seller? Okay, I just never agreed with reporting someone to the authorities. Still, it has nothing at all with the topic of historical costumes to do anymore, so I shall let it be and am of the opinion that others should let it rest too. Nicole - never afraid to voice her opinion *shrugs* ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:47:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12757 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:47:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIl1i1021311; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIl0PV024886; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DIkNPV024550 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:46:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113184622.28794.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:46:22 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stunned (semi-OT) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030113162645.8820.qmail@web21407.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:46:22 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote: > > Angharat > who is still stunned, and laughing, because the head > judge was so annoyed at me for not entering. (comment > not repeated, but it was funny) PHOTOS! PHOTOS! PHOTOS! Or at least descriptions of the costumes, phuleeze! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:57:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12808 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:57:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIq4i1021883; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIq2PV027778; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIpsPV027701 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:51:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07613 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:03:25 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyestrain -> nearsightedness -> blindness? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030113041051.00a68590@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:03:25 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Somebody explain to me this: If eyestrain does not cause > nearsightedness, how come young lacemakers went blind from making lace > too long in bad light, and how come certain stitches were called > 'forbidden stitch' in China for allegedly making the embroiderers go > blind? Or are these two urban legends? I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the stories. They used to say that masturbation will make you blind, too. Some proportion of any population will develop eye problems that can lead to blindness -- macular degeneration, cataracts, glaucoma. Presumably any embroiderers who developed eye problems would blame them on the close work. Close work in low light certainly give you headaches, so it's reasonable to worry that it's damaging you permanently. I don't know that doing this over long periods (e.g. daily for years) might not cause some permanent problem, but it doesn't cause nearsightedness. Plus, nearly all needleworkers would develop presbyopia in midlife, and it was probably blamed on the embroidery ... as would be the case for other people who did close work. If you're, say, an illiterate farmer or soldier and don't do needlework, writing, or other close work, the problems wouldn't interfere with your work and might go unnoticed. So craftsmen and clerks who did close work would be the most likely to notice normal eyesight deterioration ... which would be blamed on their profession. On the other hand, other types of craft work carried hazards that were recognized at the time but not understood. Russian icon painters had a reputation for going mad, and it was blamed on the religious intensity of making holy paintings. After a certain number of years of work, they were too out of their minds to continue and were cared for in special communities, with honor for having given their lives to glorify God. Later, scholars examined the special paint recipes required for the icon painting, and found mercury, lead, cadmium ... Later, of course, it was hatters, who could not attribute their madness to religious ecstasy. Perhaps the "forbidden stitches" involved some chemical process or dye that, in constant daily contact by professional needleworkers, worked bodily damage. That would be a good research avenue for a scientist ;-) --Robin, just speculating _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 13:58:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12823 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:58:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIw7i1022447; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:58:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIw1PV001230; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DIv1PV000638 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003011318565600200f34j7e>; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:56:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3E230BF5.1080008@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pluderhose References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:56:53 -0800 Status: RO Rebecca Anderson wrote: > Hello. > > Im making pluderhose for my brother using Janet Arnolds Patterns of > Fashion as my guide. > As yet Ive had no problems with how they are to be constructed. What I > would like to know is has anyone had any experiance in making them?? > Any tips and tricks, especially for the shaped backside. They are a > facinating garment and I cant wait to see how they turnout! > I've made them. They weren't too bad. A mockup, even in fabric that is not the right weight will help you understand how the backside works. I used old bedsheets in obnoxious colors/patterns to make a trial version. The better the back-side fits, the more comfortable the pluderhose will be. Liz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 14:08:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12878 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:08:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJ63i1023200; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJ61PV006008; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx18.cluster1.charter.net (209-225-8-28.charter.net [209.225.8.28] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJ56PV005415 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:05:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx18.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 21494839 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:09:21 -0500 Message-ID: <002801c2bb36$8de023e0$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pluderhose MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:04:09 -0600 Status: RO Hello! Another Rebecca here - I too am making a pair of pluderhosen from Janet Arnold for my brother. (the Nils Sture pair). So far, so good. There is a bit of puzzle-piecing to do here and there. Also, depending on what your fabrics are, there is a lot of hand-stitching. At least for me. I have a linen/cotton as the base, the "poofs" are lightweight silk, the panes are velvet lined with the same linen/cotton and have thin strips of trim framing them, and I have small leather strips at the tops of the panes for the looped part to make them stick out better. I have found that when all those multiple layers meet at the waist, there is *no way* it will fit under the presser foot of my machine! However, I am stuck on just how the rear gets done/covered. I've got the silk for the "poofs" attached at the waist and have put them together at the bottom of the legs - that seems to be OK. I also sewed the silk down across the rear so it wasn't just flopping around. It looks like there are velvet "butt pads" that go over the edges of the silk back there. My problem is, the strip of fabric that goes between the "butt pads" ~ I can't figure out what covers that! My base of linen/cotton is still showing through there. Anyone have hints or tips about that? I am currently working on said waistband and hope to move to the bottom of the legs soon. After that I will have to attack the rear and figure that out, and then finish off with the codpiece and lacing holes. And my brother is going to be here in two weeks! Arrggh!!! So, send me an email if you get stuck somewhere and I might be able to help ~ then again, I might just be wrong too! This is the first time I've tried making something from complete scratch like this without a "real" pattern". (You know, the types that say "now sew piece A to piece B at the shoulders...") :-) ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Mistress Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF There's no such thing as too many books! lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rebecca Anderson" To: Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 9:16 AM Subject: [h-cost] Pluderhose > Hello. > > Im making pluderhose for my brother using Janet Arnolds Patterns of Fashion as my guide. > As yet Ive had no problems with how they are to be constructed. What I would like to know is has anyone had any experiance in making them?? Any tips and tricks, especially for the shaped backside. They are a facinating garment and I cant wait to see how they turnout! > > Rebecca > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > get 2 months FREE* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 14:20:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13013 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:20:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJF9i1023998; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:15:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJF3PV010921; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJElPV010749 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0DJEfIB086687 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:14:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301131914.h0DJEfIB086687@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume-related knit shirts at SF Bay Area Nordstrom's To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Lavolta Press" at Jan 12, 2003 07:01:34 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:14:40 -0800 (PST) Status: RO doesn't look like they have the ones fran got, but here are some examples of their shirts: http://www.bennettsclothing.com/skinny_minnie.htm > > I bought three today while my husband was buying shoes. The brand > is Skinny Minnie. They are arty looking women's knit shirts with > irresistable Victorianish silkscreen printing. They are dyed > subdued pastel earthtone colors, sage greens and pale golds and the > like. Over that is silkscreening of other colors to give a mottled > effect. And along with that are printed, in the same colorways, the > title pages/logos of various Victorian magazines. When I saw > shirts for the _Young Ladies Journal_, I had to have one (actually > two, in different colors). I also bought one for _The Studio_, an > Art Nouveau design magazine. They also had shirts for other > Victorian magazines, and some seed catalogs and things like that, > and a book with a Latin title. The style is kind of an undershirt > with three-quarter sleeves. They run small, unless you want the > skintight look. The price is $34. The sales clerk said all the San > Francisco Bay Area Nordstrom's have them. I found them in what I > think was a juniors section. > > Fran > > > > --------------------------------------------- > Visit our web pages! > Books on historic costume and vintage clothes > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and vintage dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 14:26:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13070 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:26:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJO9i1024831; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJO5PV015678; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJNmPV015504 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from theforce [64.0.176.2] by mailhost.softwareinnovation.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A270E068A; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:24:32 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] just ... wow. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <200301111811.35583.cathy@thyrsus.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:24:31 -0600 Status: RO yah, and they want to have a zipper... gack! urk! (thud) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Catherine Olanich Raymond Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 5:12 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. On Saturday 11 January 2003 05:18 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: [text cut here] > > Sounds like they're aiming for the bridal/evening/fancy-dress/revival > market, not for anyone who actually knows anything about historically made > clothing or wants an authentic reproduction. You can say that again. To me, the picture looks more like a bad imitation of an 1880s style than anything else. 18th Century, my eye! -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 14:47:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13161 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:47:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJlIi1026945; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:47:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJlHFC029342; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:47:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DJkCFC028611 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoWZFzSa5UoWtUwnzs6+Bj2uzBnp7O1LRQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNE79CED; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:45:14 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress Message-ID: <20030113.144257.-535031.8.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:33:07 -0500 Status: RO As always, this is a work of art. When the picture starts to scroll down on my monitor I get this lush violet and blue iridescent wave of color. The amount of work you put into a "costume" is an inspiration!!!! Thank you for being you and sharing your fabulous creations with us. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 14:47:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13165 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:47:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJlNi1026965; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJlNFC029401; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DJkBFC028605 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoWZFzSa5UoWfySkiI2s45HTKbdyLGFmUg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNE79CD7; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:45:14 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. Message-ID: <20030113.144257.-535031.5.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-8 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:23:33 -0500 Status: RO I suspect that Simplicity will have a say in the matter too. They usually have a notice on their patterns saying that they are for personal use only. Using the picture from their package and then offering to sell it is not exactly for personal use. However, as the person doing this isn't on the list it is rather a waste of time and band space to continue this discussion. Sorry, just had to put my two cents in. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 14:47:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13169 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:47:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJl5i1026912; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJl4FC029173; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:47:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DJkCFC028608 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoWZFzSa5UoWfySkiI2s45ENIpvFzdx6CQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNE79CD5; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:45:14 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stunned (semi-OT) Message-ID: <20030113.144257.-535031.4.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:17:20 -0500 Status: RO Bravo! It is great that someone who was working was actually noticed and honored. Any pics? Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 14:47:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13174 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:47:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJlTi1026989; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:47:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJlRFC029450; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DJkCFC028612 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoWZFzSa5UoWtUwnzs6+Bj3rpG64dK02HA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNE79CEB; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:45:14 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyestrain -> nearsightedness -> blindness? Message-ID: <20030113.144257.-535031.7.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:27:51 -0500 Status: RO Great speculations Robin. Makes a lot of sense actually. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 14:53:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13212 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:53:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJr3i1027576; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DJr1FC002970; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21402.mail.yahoo.com (web21402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DJqPFC002602 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:52:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113195225.39455.qmail@web21402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.109] by web21402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:52:25 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stunned (semi-OT) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030113184622.28794.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:52:25 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > > PHOTOS! PHOTOS! PHOTOS! Or at least descriptions of > the costumes, phuleeze! > > Nicole Nicole, I just sent you the two shots I have of the Judge's Choice award set that were taken by our hotel roommate. Description for everyone else: His: Red sheer shirt basic mandarin collar style, no ornamentation other than silver feather stitching ont he collar and cuffs, simple red/gold square buttons, black silk pants, boots. Vest: Black bamboo velvet, lined. handmade silver piping on all edges. red lion trim from cheeptrims.com edged by silver cord about one inch from the piping. open sides, with a single frog closure at the waist on front and sides. The back, which unfortunately wasn't shown in the picture, has a red brocade oval with a 1/4" silver band around it with a silver wolf's head looking straight out appliqued in lame' with red oval 'gems' for eyes. Mine: Same red sheer (it was a bargain find at Joanns--.44/yard I had 20 yards of it) All but the 2 and a bit yards for his shirt were placed into the gown. It has a 20 yard hem with the gores. Double puffed sleeves with angel wings from the elbow down. All seams are covered over with silver cording couched down over them. Edges of sleeves, neckline, the button area in front and the hem have red satin ribbon, with more silver cord. Red brocade undersleeves (same as the background for the wolf on the vest) My vest looks the same, but has been beaded with small red seed beads over the entirety of the vest. The outfits were designed on a dare, and used only stuff from my hoard. I did run out of silver cord while working on the gown, but was able to fit it so that it looked deliberate. This one is in red/black/silver. The outfits being made for this year's will be black, blue and purple, with white accents. He and I wear face paint with the outfits: Him: browned skin: flame/bat shape around the eyes outlined in black and filled in with copper; black lips. This weekend, I also had him wearing red, black tipped horns. Mine: opalescent pale skin, metallic effect around eyes: usually a stained glass butterfly, this weekend in a three coloured flame butterfly (gold, blue/copper) and odd purplish/red lips. My horns this weekend were short black spirals. I'm also wearing "wolf eye" contacts. Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 15:24:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13346 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:24:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKN3i1000677; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKN1FC020400; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21412.mail.yahoo.com (web21412.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DKMeFC020213 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:22:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113202240.68260.qmail@web21412.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.109] by web21412.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:22:40 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 23 (Provo?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030110231359.00b9b3f8@radiks.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:22:40 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Pierre & Sandy, Atlanta and Chicago are too far away for me right now, but Provo, and then possibly San Jose sound d0-able. Is there a specific listing for where in Provo the con is? (Might be able to stay with friends or my mom if it's close enough!) Angharad, who is dancing... I FINALLY own my own copy of _The Costume Maker's Art_ (early birthday prezzie!) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 15:30:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13376 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:30:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKU2i1001766; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKU1FC024498; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DKTBFC023918 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:29:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 28370 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2003 20:29:10 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2003 20:29:10 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-123.sonic.net [209.148.112.123]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h0DKT9A11507 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:29:09 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3E2321AA.9020600@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume-related knit shirts at SF Bay Area Nordstrom's References: <200301131914.h0DJEfIB086687@jabberwock.wonderland.com> In-Reply-To: <200301131914.h0DJEfIB086687@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:29:30 -0800 Status: RO I bought "The Studio" shirt at Nordstrom's, though for less money. The shirts look better (more subtle) in reality than on that site BTW. As for size--I'm a petite with a 33" bust. I bought two larges and one medium (and I hope the medium doesn't shrink). It's the first time in my life I've ever bought a T-shirt in any size but petite or small. Their mediums, even, are kind of tight on me, though not obscene. As for their smalls, I could barely get them on or move my arms when I did--the smalls really cut me under the arms. But the shirts are really pretty and I could not resist a Victorian fashion magazine theme. The knits seem like pretty good quality fabric. Fran Heather Meadows wrote: > doesn't look like they have the ones fran got, but here are some > examples of their shirts: > > http://www.bennettsclothing.com/skinny_minnie.htm > > > >>I bought three today while my husband was buying shoes. The brand >>is Skinny Minnie. --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 15:35:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13395 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:35:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKZ4i1003069; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKZ3FC028116; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKYZFC027786 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:34:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YBHy-0006DY-00; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:34:30 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Help with French translation on fabric-Picture Message-ID: <002801c2bb43$2fb92160$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2BB08.835A4960" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <000401c2b836$32286c90$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:34:34 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2BB08.835A4960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.saragrace.net/images/Frenchwords.jpg Jean, here is a picture. Thank you for helping! SG ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2BB08.835A4960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://www.sarag= race.net/images/Frenchwords.jpg

 

Jean, here is a picture.  Thank = you for helping!

 

SG

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2BB08.835A4960-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 15:42:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13460 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:42:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKg2i1004771; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKg0FC003144; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKf2FC002384 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-1-75.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.1.75] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18YBOI-0003Dd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:41:02 +0000 Message-ID: <007201c2bb44$ac54bd00$4b0127d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:45:12 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, It's a real shame that the two companies, La Belle Compagnie, (around 1380 onwards) at http://www.labelle.org/ and the Companie of Saynt George (around 1460-1480) at http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/index_1.phtml should have put so much work into their costumes, whilst remaining immediately distinguishable from the way that people actually dressed in these periods. Every person in these companies would have worn fur in some size, shape or form, and yet the only reference in the Saint George site plates is to an armed messenger wearing a furlined gown. There is no reference to fur in clothing at all that I can find in the site for La Belle Compaigne. I'm not sure why this is, whether people simply don't know, or do know but choose to ignore it on grounds of morality, but it does spoil otherwise excellent presentations. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 15:51:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13538 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:51:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKpDi1006111; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:51:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKpDFC008753; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:51:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKosFC008540 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.121]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8O00EYN78TMR@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:50:53 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pluderhose In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030113123033.00cd3100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:33:34 -0800 Status: RO >Im making pluderhose for my brother using Janet Arnolds Patterns of >Fashion as my guide. >As yet Ive had no problems with how they are to be constructed. What I >would like to know is has anyone had any experiance in making them?? Any >tips and tricks, especially for the shaped backside. They are a facinating >garment and I cant wait to see how they turnout! I have made three different pairs, three different ways including the Janet Arnold way. If you want to make sure the backside fits indecently tight, make sure the crotch/'fall' is cut higher than usual. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 15:59:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13606 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:59:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKx2i1006725; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKx1FC012964; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web10004.mail.yahoo.com (web10004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DKw0FC012440 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:58:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113205800.40194.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.50.56.226] by web10004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:58:00 PST From: Kay Shelton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030113203502.28077.91201.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Was Costume Con 23 (Provo?) Now Cotume Maker's Art Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:58:00 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Angharad, where did you get a copy of _The Costume Maker's Art_? I've been looking and looking. Kay Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:22:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 23 (Provo?) To: h-costume@indra.com Pierre & Sandy, Atlanta and Chicago are too far away for me right now, but Provo, and then possibly San Jose sound d0-able. Is there a specific listing for where in Provo the con is? (Might be able to stay with friends or my mom if it's close enough!) Angharad, who is dancing... I FINALLY own my own copy of _The Costume Maker's Art_ (early birthday prezzie!) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 16:01:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13642 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:01:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKp1i1006080; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKp0FC008620; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DKosFE008540 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.239.121]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8O00EYN78TMR@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:50:54 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 23 (Provo?) In-reply-to: <20030113202240.68260.qmail@web21412.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030113124426.05236c50@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030110231359.00b9b3f8@radiks.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:46:10 -0800 Status: RO >Angharad, > >who is dancing... I FINALLY own my own copy of _The >Costume Maker's Art_ (early birthday prezzie!) Pierre and Sandy are in there, pp. 94-95 in my copy. I'm in there too, under somebody else. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 16:10:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13731 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:10:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DLAAi1007866; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:10:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DLA1FC019266; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21411.mail.yahoo.com (web21411.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DL9DFC018742 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:09:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113210912.94095.qmail@web21411.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.109] by web21411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:09:12 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Con 23 (Provo?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030113124426.05236c50@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:09:12 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Pierre and Sandy are in there, pp. 94-95 in my copy. > I'm in there too, > under somebody else. Katya, YUP! And Janet Wilson-Anderson, and Gary Anderson, and AnimalX, and Jaron Hollander, Julie Zetterberg, Deb Straub, and...ummm I think I've been circling the edges of this genre far far too long. ( I can remember seeing a lot of those costumes on stage) Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 16:12:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13754 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:12:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DLC1i1008074; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DLC0FC020561; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DLBQFC020112 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08442 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:22:58 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' In-Reply-To: <007201c2bb44$ac54bd00$4b0127d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:22:58 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > It's a real shame that the two companies, La Belle Compagnie, (around > 1380 onwards) at http://www.labelle.org/ and the Companie of Saynt > George (around 1460-1480) at > http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/index_1.phtml should have put so > much work into their costumes, whilst remaining immediately > distinguishable from the way that people actually dressed in these > periods. Every person in these companies would have worn fur in some > size, shape or form, and yet the only reference in the Saint George > site plates is to an armed messenger wearing a furlined gown. There is > no reference to fur in clothing at all that I can find in the site for > La Belle Compaigne. I'm not sure why this is, whether people simply > don't know, or do know but choose to ignore it on grounds of morality, > but it does spoil otherwise excellent presentations. I remember talking about this once, some years ago, with one of the LBC heads, and I seem to recall that they were unhappy with the lack of fur, but they faced some problems with using it correctly in their context. I don't remember what the issue was -- possibly a combination of the cost and legality of getting the correct fur, or that they weren't comfortable with their ability to reproduce the methods properly. They have some rather tight restrictions on some of their costume standards that have to do with internal distinctions among members (e.g. making sure the commoners are visually distinguishable from the nobles for purposes of public presentation). They also tend to be very conservative in what they allow, and would rather opt to not add an element unless they can do it correctly, and ideally created from the ground up if it's not commercially available in exactly the right form. (I'm impressed that they make their own buttons, hairpins, etc.) These decisions do lead to a few unfortunate compromises. I don't agree with all their costume decisions for their portrayals, but their research is top-notch, and they generally know what's what. The costume standards described on the site refer to entry-level costumes for the group, which are commoner level. For all I know, the lord and lady of the group do wear fur. It's been a while since I've seen them in gear. I bet they'd love to hear from you, via the feedback email link on their site, and could give a more coherent answer than I can based on a vague recollection of a distant conversation. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 16:51:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13965 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:51:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DLpAi1011432; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:51:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DLp5FC014152; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DLo9FC013539 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:50:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip48.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.48]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0DLo4815460 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:05 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian coif question Message-ID: <3E22C43F.22502.45BE410@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3E21A0B1.AC5AE9BE@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:55 -0800 Status: RO Sue wrote: > Hi, everybody. Hope you're having a good weekend. > I've lost the original post that asked about Italian coifs, but I > think I've actually found a few....One of those happy accidents (I was > looking in a needlework book for something on opus anglicanum ). At > any rate, in the little book _Medieval Craftsmen: Embroiderers_, by > Kay Staniland, there's this great fresco (title page, and page 49), > dated about 1470, and painted by Cosimo Tura and Francesco Cossa. It > is called "The Triumph of Minerva." Apparently, it's from Ferrara--at > the Palazzo Schifanoia. This painting (and another from the same "series" called Triumphs of Venus) are also in Jaqueline Herald's Dress in Renaissance Italy. In fact, there is a red coif in backview (from TofVenus) on the front dust cover of the book. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 17:05:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14052 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:05:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DM53i1012544; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DM52FC022376; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21409.mail.yahoo.com (web21409.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DM48FC021824 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:04:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113220405.24107.qmail@web21409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.109] by web21409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:04:05 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Was Costume Con 23 (Provo?) Now Cotume Maker's Art To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030113205800.40194.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:04:05 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Kay, To find this wonderful, but out-of-print book, I did several searches on the bookseller's list. Amazon.com (US) had people waiting to have a copy come up available. I didn't check the other sites. ISBN.nu wasn't much help for me on this one unfortunately, nor was Hamiltonbooks.com. Half.com (i think) the one attached to eBay, had several listings for copies, but upwards of $170 US for them! I think there was one for $75 US there though. www.abebooks.com had a listing with abyssbooks so I was able to obtain a very good hardcover edition, for more than the original price, sure, but under $70, including the shipping. It showed up while I was at the con, so a spiff way to end the weekend! Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 17:05:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14057 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:05:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DM5Ei1012561; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DM5EFC022481; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21403.mail.yahoo.com (web21403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0DM4BFC021860 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:04:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030113215731.11685.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.109] by web21403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:57:31 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E232D44.12630.BA5831@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Angharat's Rustycon costume (was Stunned Semi OT) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:57:31 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Nicole has graciously uploaded the pics I sent her of the mage costumes so that the list may see them. Thank you Nicole! Angharad N Kipar wrote: In case you want to show the pix to the list, I uploaded them here: Face shot http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/closeup.mages.Jonnalyhn_Nick.1.11.03.jpg Full pic http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/fullshot.mages.Jonnalyhn_Nick.1.11.03.jpg __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 17:34:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14248 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:34:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DMU4i1016196; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DMU2FC009239; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DMTFFC008721 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:29:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h0DMTFXc008719 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:29:15 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Missing digests/quiet list? Message-ID: <20030113222914.GJ21376@net.indra.com> References: <20030113083921.79151.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030113083921.79151.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:29:15 -0700 Status: RO Some spammer sent a forged message to an auto-response address *from* an auto-response address. The resulting ping-ping stalled the list mail. ...eliz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 18:38:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14689 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:38:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DNe4i1027970; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DNe0FC025239; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DNdoFC025128 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:39:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.75.71ae304 (17526) for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:38:44 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <75.71ae304.2b54a803@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_75.71ae304.2b54a803_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:38:43 EST Status: RO --part1_75.71ae304.2b54a803_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Boy, I'd love to see it! But << expletive deleted >> AOL won't let me on your site. Perhaps someone could download the photos and friggin' e-mail 'em to me!!! Or I'll just change servers!!!! --part1_75.71ae304.2b54a803_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Boy, I'd love to see it! But << expletive deleted >> AOL won't let me on your site.

Perhaps someone could download the photos and friggin' e-mail 'em to me!!!

Or I'll just change servers!!!! --part1_75.71ae304.2b54a803_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 18:40:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14708 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:40:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DNg2i1028199; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DNg1FC026387; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.175]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0DNfCFC025831 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0DNf6C26354 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:41:06 +1100 Message-ID: <009301c2bb5d$5e123780$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <20030113.144257.-535031.5.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:41:59 +1100 Status: RO > I suspect that Simplicity will have a say in the matter too. I have to confess I didn't actually check the pattern when I said it was Simplicity. It is actually Butterick. I was thinking of contacting them too, because those of us who want to make a living out of this sort of thing will have to design our own patterns and do it the hard way and may have to charge more because of the extra work (I don't know the cost of things in America, so I can't compare). We're trying to make a decent living doing things the right way and these are the sort of people who cheat and make it harder for us I also just don't like lies and deceit in general. I'm not perfect, I do it to sometimes too but if I get caught out on it, it's only fair. Karen ---- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/costumepage.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 18:59:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14877 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:59:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E01Ei1029886; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:01:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E01DFC006316; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E00LFC005820 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YD5T-0003i1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:29:44 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Angharat's Rustycon costume (was Stunned Semi OT) Message-ID: <003f01c2bb53$4891a760$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030113215731.11685.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:29:48 -0700 Status: RO Cool horns-did you make them? How are they made and stuck on? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 19:04:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14912 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:04:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E061i1000393; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E061FC008598; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E05KFC008210 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:05:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.103.242fb1cc (4196) for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:04:54 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <103.242fb1cc.2b54ae26@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_103.242fb1cc.2b54ae26_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Subject: [h-cost] Re: sack dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:04:54 EST Status: RO --part1_103.242fb1cc.2b54ae26_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He sent me photos.... Thank you so much! The gown is fantastic! It's chocolate cake! It's Adagio cantabile! It's Mickey Mouse! [apologies to Cole Porter] It makes me want to make one. --part1_103.242fb1cc.2b54ae26_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He sent me photos....

Thank you so much!

The gown is fantastic!

It's chocolate cake!

It's Adagio cantabile!

It's Mickey Mouse! [apologies to Cole Porter]

It makes me want to make one.
 --part1_103.242fb1cc.2b54ae26_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 19:16:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14952 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:16:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0ISi1001533; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:18:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0ISPj014075; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:18:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21405.mail.yahoo.com (web21405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0E0H0Pj013439 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:17:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030114001700.62922.qmail@web21405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.229.156.243] by web21405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:17:00 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Angharat's Rustycon costume (was Stunned Semi OT) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <003f01c2bb53$4891a760$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:17:00 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Saragrace, I didn't make these horns, they were purchased from the Spirit Store near the Halloween time. The red ones have a monofilament line that tightens up underneath the hairline in the back. The black ones are of foam and stuck on with Spirit gum. Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 19:17:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14958 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:17:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0J1i1001589; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0J1Pj014291; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0I8Pj013901 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:18:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be73.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.115]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B54A726309E for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:18:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002801c2bb62$e1b611b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <103.242fb1cc.2b54ae26@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: sack dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2BB6B.433ED040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:21:28 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2BB6B.433ED040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Albert Cat I have a pattern draft i can upload tomorrow. I used an original pattern = after M. Leloir.=20 It is the first time i used a french pattern. And it really is easy to follow it even if you could not upscale the = pattern, you could use it as a guide.=20 The underskirt is very easy, it is just 3 fabric widths joined together, = the center back has a seam and you make a small cut center front and = back. Then you make some channels in the sides wich are made with a tape = tie. Then you can gather the tape to the required meassure of your hoop = or hip paniers. I have only used hip paniers for this.=20 The center back pleats i have made after the late fashions. When sack = dresses were going to be unfashionable. It reveals some of the bodice = sides and the pleats are sitting close to the center back. I am exhausted, and i still have a lot to do. Sew all the trimmings on = to the fabric, sew the back pleats on and then make all the hem of the = overdress. Finally the stomacher. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AlbertCat@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 1:04 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: sack dress He sent me photos.... Thank you so much! The gown is fantastic! It's chocolate cake! It's Adagio cantabile! It's Mickey Mouse! [apologies to Cole Porter] It makes me want to make one. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2BB6B.433ED040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Dear Albert Cat
I have a pattern draft i can upload = tomorrow. I=20 used an original pattern after M. Leloir.
It is the first time i used a french=20 pattern.
And it really is easy to follow it even = if you=20 could not upscale the pattern, you could use it as a guide. =
The underskirt is very easy, it is = just 3=20 fabric widths joined together, the center back has a seam and you make a = small=20 cut center front and back. Then you make some channels in the sides wich = are=20 made with a tape tie. Then you can gather the tape to the required = meassure of=20 your hoop or hip paniers. I have only used hip paniers for=20 this. 
The center back pleats i have made = after the late=20 fashions. When sack dresses were going to be unfashionable. It reveals = some of=20 the bodice sides and the pleats are sitting close to the center=20 back.
I am exhausted, and i still have a lot = to do. Sew=20 all the trimmings on to the fabric, sew the back pleats on and then make = all the=20 hem of the overdress. Finally the stomacher.
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk
=
 
http://home0.inet.tele.dk/dr= ewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 AlbertCat@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 = 1:04=20 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: sack = dress

He sent=20 me photos....

Thank you so much!

The gown is=20 fantastic!

It's chocolate cake!

It's Adagio=20 cantabile!

It's Mickey Mouse! [apologies to Cole = Porter]

It=20 makes me want to make one.
 ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2BB6B.433ED040-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 19:20:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14973 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:20:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0H7i1001419; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:17:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0H1Pj013447; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0GOPj013216 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:16:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0E0ejI3021789; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:40:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0E0eiHb021787; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:40:44 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com, "Stevie Gamble" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <007201c2bb44$ac54bd00$4b0127d9@dan> In-Reply-To: <007201c2bb44$ac54bd00$4b0127d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301131940.44206.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0E0GOPj013216 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:40:44 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 13 January 2003 03:45 pm, Stevie Gamble wrote: [text cut here] > There is no reference to fur in clothing at all that I can find in the > site for La Belle Compaigne. I'm not sure why this is, whether people > simply don't know, or do know but choose to ignore it on grounds of > morality, but it does spoil otherwise excellent presentations. It may be partly due to cost considerations, too.... -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 19:29:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15025 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:29:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0V1i1002627; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0V0Pj019776; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0UYPj019541 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:30:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0E0t0I3021986 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:55:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0E0t0d1021984 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:55:00 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <000801c2ba86$e6140190$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000801c2ba86$e6140190$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301131955.00161.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0E0UYPj019541 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:55:00 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 12 January 2003 05:06 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi! > If you would like to look over my shoulder and follow my work in making a > sack dress, you can have a look here: > www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sack_dress_1770.htm > I have ben making this dress the last 14 days, and worked very hard besides > my full time job. > Dont let yourself misjudge the colour of the dress. My dig.cam uses two > high flashlight and the colour is not right. > It is shot dupioni dark red and dark green. The closeup picture of the > sleave shows the right colour. > I will try to make some pictures tomorrow in daylight. > I have finished all the pieces and sewed them together. > Then i have to make all the decoration with gathered frills along the > overskirt and along the bodice. And i must make a compare and decorate this > two with gathered frills. > A friend was in need of a dress. Her dress was torned apart when she took > her old dress off. (It was an old second hand dress) Then she asked me for > help. > She is going to selebrate the birdhday of Gustav III at Svartsjø Castle in > Sweden the 21. of january. > Fortunately i have the day off tomorrow and the day after, so that i can > finish the dress and send away for her in time!!! > I have used 14 meter of silk for this dress. > If you would like to see the society of Gustavs Skål wich is selebrating > the birdsday of Gustav III you can have a look at this side: > www.gustafsskal.nu They have some nice pictures i think. > > Many greetings > > Bjarne > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 19:31:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15040 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:31:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0N1i1001952; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0N0Pj016238; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0MwPj016155 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:22:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0E0lPI3021862 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:47:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0E0lOWh021860 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:47:24 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301131947.23789.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0E0MwPj016155 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:47:23 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 13 January 2003 02:24 pm, Betsy Marshall wrote: > yah, and they want to have a zipper... > gack! urk! (thud) So much for the dress being "a 19th century recreation of an 18th century design" or whatever hogwash she put on E-Bay. :-( I thought she might merely be misdescribing a real Victorian-era pattern, until I saw the picture. > On Saturday 11 January 2003 05:18 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > > [text cut here] > > > Sounds like they're aiming for the bridal/evening/fancy-dress/revival > > market, not for anyone who actually knows anything about historically > > made clothing or wants an authentic reproduction. > [Cathy Raymond wrote] > You can say that again. To me, the picture looks more like a bad imitation > of > an 1880s style than anything else. 18th Century, my eye! -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 19:40:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15090 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:40:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0W1i1002699; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0W1Pj020176; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0UxPj019723 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0E0tQI3021998 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:55:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0E0tQgn021996 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:55:26 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <000801c2ba86$e6140190$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000801c2ba86$e6140190$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301131955.26329.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0E0UxPj019723 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:55:26 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 12 January 2003 05:06 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi! > If you would like to look over my shoulder and follow my work in making a > sack dress, you can have a look here: > www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sack_dress_1770.htm Sorry, Bjarne, I keep getting an error page at this URL. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 19:44:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15128 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:44:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0k2i1003857; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0k1Pj026356; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E0ixPj025884 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:45:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.185] (pm5-185.eos.net [205.133.149.185]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15072 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:44:56 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030113180846.24544.80529.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's new gown Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:41:56 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne, that is so elegant! I can't believe you can work so fast! Please let us know when we can see pictures of the finished gown. And thanks for the link to Gustavs Skal, it is always fun to see people dressed up. I haven't sewed anything for myself in about two years, but I still love to look at other people! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 20:11:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15258 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:11:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E1D2i1005572; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E1D1Pj006912; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E1CuPj006890 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YFdO-0002nE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:12:54 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] sack dress Message-ID: <005201c2bb6a$14bbba90$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <200301131955.26329.cathy@thyrsus.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:12:58 -0700 Status: RO URL works just fine for me! Ooooh La La! You are amazing Bjarne!! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 20:27:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15311 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:27:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E1T1i1006542; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E1T0Pj012797; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E1S3Pj012474 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.102.23b8148b (4196) for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:27:11 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <102.23b8148b.2b54c16e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: sack dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_102.23b8148b.2b54c16e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:27:10 EST Status: RO --part1_102.23b8148b.2b54c16e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/13/2003 7:19:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > I have a pattern draft i can upload tomorrow. I'll take it! What size is it? Upscaling is no problem. Metric doesn't bother me....as long as I don't have to convert it to inches. Take your time....finish up what you have to do. Later, Gray [Albert Cat] --part1_102.23b8148b.2b54c16e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/13/2003 7:19:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


I have a pattern draft i can upload tomorrow.


I'll take it!

What size is it?

Upscaling is no problem. Metric doesn't bother me....as long as I don't have to convert it to inches.

Take your time....finish up what you have to do.

Later,
Gray [Albert Cat] --part1_102.23b8148b.2b54c16e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 20:40:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15385 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:40:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E1b2i1006966; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E1b1Pj015334; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E1aUPj015136 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:36:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0538.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.252.28] helo=[209.179.217.206]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YG0C-0006CB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:36:30 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:38:00 -0800 Status: RO Nicole Kipar wrote: >Well.... >*getting ready to get stick for saying it but says it anyway* >... isn't that a bit mean, to report people? Okay so the dress won't be the >period that it claims it is, but is that a crime, and most of all, is it your >concern or anyone else's for that matter other than mentioning it to the >seller? > >Okay, I just never agreed with reporting someone to the authorities. I might think it was petty to report someone for an auction that was only a couple dollars (depending on what they're selling). But this "vendor" was asking for over three thousand dollars... One of Bjarne's marvelous creations would well be worth that, but not a poorly designed dress from a commercial pattern made by someone whose skills you don't know. Some folks might think anyone dumb enough to bid on this auction would get what they deserved. But some people really don't know about sewing and costume history and wouldn't realize they were getting cheated big time. I think that in this case reporting them was the right thing. Just my opinion, Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 21:41:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15651 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:41:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E2h2i1010724; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E2h1Pj006533; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E2gEPj006283 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.0.2.15] (IDENT:ppp1300.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02682 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:42:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200301140242.TAA02682@lariat.org> From: hillrk@lariat.org To: h-costume@net.indra.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v3.12b) Subject: [h-cost] Skiing in skirts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:27:04 +0000 Status: RO A couple of friends and I are considering doing some skiing in retro fashion, wearing skirts, for a lark. I fancy a mid-calf wool skirt with stretch side panels, and vest to match. But what about the fabric for the stretch panels? Modern ski wear is not only expensive, but relentlessly synthetic. My favorite ski pants have always been the wool-blend stretch pants with stirrups from the 50's and 60's, the early days of the ski industry (here in the American West). These pants are warm, they take an serious beating, and can still be found in thrift stores, where I buy them a bit oversized for machine washing. I have a pair right now, manfactured by Mehrer of Norway, of 60% wool, 35% nylon, and 5% Lycra. Past searches for this kind of yardage have yielded nothing. Anybody have a source? And is there any history of women skiing in skirts? I know of skirts (quilted) used as ski wear for religious reasons, but the U.S., as far as I can tell, has no such mainstream tradition. Europe, perhaps? Skiing as recreation may simply postdate pants for women, but what about skiing as transportation for chores and visits? -- Robin Hill hillrk@lariat.org Laramie, Wyoming _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 21:54:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15690 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E2u1i1011325; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E2u0Pj010310; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E2tsPj010270 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:55:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h0E2ts908042 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:55:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.242] (tnt-1-50.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.242]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h0E2trm08008 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:55:53 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030113205800.40194.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030113205800.40194.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] Re: Was Costume Con 23 (Provo?) Now Cotume Maker's Art Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:53:48 -0800 Status: RO At 12:58 PM -0800 1/13/03, Kay Shelton wrote: >Angharad, where did you get a copy of _The >Costume Maker's Art_? I've been looking and looking. >Kay There was a second-hand copy at Moe's Books in Berkeley this afternoon. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 22:36:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15881 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:36:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E3c6i1013438; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:38:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E3c2Pj023892; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E3bPPj023536 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:37:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-008-203.jps.net ([216.119.8.203] helo=pavilion) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YHtE-0003AF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:37:25 -0800 Message-ID: <00bc01c2bb7f$52c0c140$cb0877d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:45:02 -0800 Status: RO Okay, maybe I'm a bit older than a number of people commenting, but did anyone ever consider there could be a range of possibilities for such postings? A Psych 101 exercise, a Penn and Teller Joke, a revamp of the defunct SPY magazine? Lisa - The one who diverted her phone to the child support agency when she knew her ex was expected to call. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. > Nicole Kipar wrote: > >Well.... > >*getting ready to get stick for saying it but says it anyway* > >... isn't that a bit mean, to report people? Okay so the dress won't be the > >period that it claims it is, but is that a crime, and most of all, is it your > >concern or anyone else's for that matter other than mentioning it to the > >seller? > > > >Okay, I just never agreed with reporting someone to the authorities. > > I might think it was petty to report someone for an auction that was > only a couple dollars (depending on what they're selling). But this > "vendor" was asking for over three thousand dollars... > > One of Bjarne's marvelous creations would well be worth that, but not > a poorly designed dress from a commercial pattern made by someone > whose skills you don't know. > > Some folks might think anyone dumb enough to bid on this auction > would get what they deserved. But some people really don't know about > sewing and costume history and wouldn't realize they were getting > cheated big time. > > I think that in this case reporting them was the right thing. > > Just my opinion, > > Anahita > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 22:50:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15943 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:50:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E3q2i1014312; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E3q1Pj029370; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E3puPj029305 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:51:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m242.in-tch.com [216.166.191.242]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0E3ZO906089 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:35:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E238982.D2F96E46@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Missing digests/quiet list? References: <20030113083921.79151.qmail@web40012.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:52:34 -0700 Status: RO I'm not on digest, and I didn't get diddly all weekend. All of my lists were like that (what I got was very, very spotty), so I figured it was my ISP misbehaving again.... Must just be internet gremlins . --sue Rachel wrote: > > Is it me or was the list entirely dead yesterday? Either that or I am missing some digests. The > last one I received was no 1695. Anyone else has this problem? > > Rachel > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 13 23:10:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16022 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:10:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E4C2i1015442; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E4C1Pj007002; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0E4BnPj006835 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:11:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030114041149.47840.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:11:49 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000801c2ba86$e6140190$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:11:49 +1100 (EST) Status: RO Bjarne you are an inspiration! I'm in the SCA, doing 16th century Venetian, and trying *desperately* not to fall in love with other time periods. But failing, thanks in a big way to you! :) I know you patterned this dress yourself, but (anyone) is there a good pattern out there for something similar? Just in case I win the lottery or something, you understand.... :) Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 00:02:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16155 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:02:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E543i1018028; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E541iN023188; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E53viN023167 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p8.directcon.net [206.170.184.107]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0E52ktZ010497; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:02:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030113210639.00e79d90@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skiing in skirts In-Reply-To: <200301140242.TAA02682@lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:06:39 -0800 Status: RO > >And is there any history of women skiing in skirts? I know of skirts >(quilted) used as ski wear for religious reasons, but the U.S., as far >as I can tell, has no such mainstream tradition. Europe, perhaps? >Skiing as recreation may simply postdate pants for women, but >what about skiing as transportation for chores and visits? The 1938 Vogue Book of Etiquette has a whole section on how to dress, including for sporting. As I recall, it says that usually trousers are worn for skiing, but that some expert wopman skiers wear a cable knitted sweater and matching stockings, with a short wool skirt, as they do in Europe. My sister has our family copy of the book, and she's on vacation right now, but if you need a precise quote remind me in about a week and I'll have her look it up. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 00:02:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16160 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:02:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E54Gi1018046; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:04:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E54GiN023260; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:04:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E53wiN023176 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:03:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p8.directcon.net [206.170.184.107]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0E52ktZ010497; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:02:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030113210639.00e79d90@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skiing in skirts In-Reply-To: <200301140242.TAA02682@lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:06:39 -0800 Status: RO > >And is there any history of women skiing in skirts? I know of skirts >(quilted) used as ski wear for religious reasons, but the U.S., as far >as I can tell, has no such mainstream tradition. Europe, perhaps? >Skiing as recreation may simply postdate pants for women, but >what about skiing as transportation for chores and visits? The 1938 Vogue Book of Etiquette has a whole section on how to dress, including for sporting. As I recall, it says that usually trousers are worn for skiing, but that some expert wopman skiers wear a cable knitted sweater and matching stockings, with a short wool skirt, as they do in Europe. My sister has our family copy of the book, and she's on vacation right now, but if you need a precise quote remind me in about a week and I'll have her look it up. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 00:06:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16165 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:06:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E581i1018463; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E580iN024958; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E57BiN024759 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:07:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-38lc2vq.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.11.250] helo=earthlink.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YJI4-0001hn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:07:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3E2399F0.66C1794A@earthlink.net> From: Karolee Smiley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] You Never Know References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:02:39 -0800 Status: RO Yes, many animals have suffered due to fashion, but the egret was the poster child. Ever notice the symbol for the audobon society? Its an egret. The society was formed in the 1880's in reaction to the millions of birds that were slaughtered just for a few feathers for hats. These feathers were highly prized and could get a high price on the market. I once found a breeding plumage feather of an egret while hiking near a rookery. The breeding plumage of the egret has long wispy white feathers that are absolutely gorgeous (obviously the girl birds think so too) Karolee Kate M Bunting wrote: > Drea wrote: > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> drea@nospam 01/10/03 09:30pm >>> > Is the "aigrette" related to the "egret" ? > > Yes, I think the bird (a type of heron) is "egret" and the tuft of its feathers used as decoration is the "aigrette". It wasn't the only bird put on the endangered list by Edwardian fashions. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 00:29:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16221 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:29:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E5V3i1019758; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E5V1iN002882; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E5UMiN002651 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:30:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-9-37.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.37] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YJeX-0001My-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:30:21 -0800 Message-ID: <001401c2bb8f$194d29c0$250977d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:37:53 -0800 Status: RO Robin, there is a frecsco by Benozzo Gozzoli in Davenport's the book of costume on page 277 of an italian men's shirt 1468-85, image 754 which would be suitable for a fencing shirt. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions > > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, leigh tartaglio wrote: > > > Certainly, the shirt in this case is not meant or intended as any sort > > of protection against injury, so any consideration that it is or > > should be is out of the range of this group's mandate. > > Exactly. Thanks for stating so clearly. > > > As to construction, Robin, something in a natural fabric made on > > similar lines to the St. Louis shirt pictured in "Cut my Cote", minus > > the crossed-over collar reenforcement, should be fine. > > That was my first suggestion to him, but this shirt is French and more > than a century earlier than what we're aiming for. It was body linen, > never meant to be seen. Here's where the Italian issue comes in, since my > understanding is that the Italian men were showing their shirts by 1400, > and very likely using a more elaborate construction and styling. > > If I don't come up with anything solid as an Italian variant, my fallback > will be exactly what you describe: > > > Plain rectangular cuts with underarm gussets, cut comfortably but not > > too fully, should suffice. > > ...the generic medieval European shirt, but alas, not specifically Italian > 1409. > > > Some of the work on this period in clothing would be covered by both > > La Belle Companie here in the US (I think the URL is the same as the > > name of the group) > > La Belle Compagnie, for those who are interested in seeing a really fine > living history depiction of late 14th c. England, is at > . I go back with the founders since before they > created the group (through my husband, who goes back even further with > them) and we have worked together often, on costume and other matters. I > persuaded them to come out to lecture at Kalamazoo a couple of years ago > and am pleased to say two of their members will be speaking for us again > this spring, on practical considerations of pourpoints/gambesons for > wearing under armor. > > Still, not any specific help for Italian there. England and France I'm > fine on. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 00:39:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16265 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:39:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E5f1i1020123; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E5f1iN005526; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E5eoiN005463 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:40:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-9-37.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.37] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YJof-00040w-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:40:50 -0800 Message-ID: <001b01c2bb90$9271a000$250977d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <001401c2bb8f$194d29c0$250977d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:48:30 -0800 Status: RO http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/g/gozzoli/6late/1pisa.html also has the fresco called The Vintage and Drunkenness of Noah by GOZZOLI, Benozzo, there is a man in this shirt stomping grapes. The Davenport book has a better image. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions > Robin, there is a frecsco by Benozzo Gozzoli in Davenport's the book of > costume on page 277 of an italian men's shirt 1468-85, image 754 which would > be suitable for a fencing shirt. > > Lisa > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Netherton" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:36 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions > > > > > > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, leigh tartaglio wrote: > > > > > Certainly, the shirt in this case is not meant or intended as any sort > > > of protection against injury, so any consideration that it is or > > > should be is out of the range of this group's mandate. > > > > Exactly. Thanks for stating so clearly. > > > > > As to construction, Robin, something in a natural fabric made on > > > similar lines to the St. Louis shirt pictured in "Cut my Cote", minus > > > the crossed-over collar reenforcement, should be fine. > > > > That was my first suggestion to him, but this shirt is French and more > > than a century earlier than what we're aiming for. It was body linen, > > never meant to be seen. Here's where the Italian issue comes in, since my > > understanding is that the Italian men were showing their shirts by 1400, > > and very likely using a more elaborate construction and styling. > > > > If I don't come up with anything solid as an Italian variant, my fallback > > will be exactly what you describe: > > > > > Plain rectangular cuts with underarm gussets, cut comfortably but not > > > too fully, should suffice. > > > > ...the generic medieval European shirt, but alas, not specifically Italian > > 1409. > > > > > Some of the work on this period in clothing would be covered by both > > > La Belle Companie here in the US (I think the URL is the same as the > > > name of the group) > > > > La Belle Compagnie, for those who are interested in seeing a really fine > > living history depiction of late 14th c. England, is at > > . I go back with the founders since before they > > created the group (through my husband, who goes back even further with > > them) and we have worked together often, on costume and other matters. I > > persuaded them to come out to lecture at Kalamazoo a couple of years ago > > and am pleased to say two of their members will be speaking for us again > > this spring, on practical considerations of pourpoints/gambesons for > > wearing under armor. > > > > Still, not any specific help for Italian there. England and France I'm > > fine on. > > > > --Robin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 01:11:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16343 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:11:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E6D3i1021578; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E6D1iN014607; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E6CUiN014464 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-9-37.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.37] helo=pavilion) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YKJJ-0002Xk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:12:29 -0800 Message-ID: <002c01c2bb94$fd1ec000$250977d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <001401c2bb8f$194d29c0$250977d8@pavilion> <001b01c2bb90$9271a000$250977d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions/protection Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:20:05 -0800 Status: RO leigh tartaglio wrote: > > > > > > > Certainly, the shirt in this case is not meant or intended as any sort > > > > of protection against injury, so any consideration that it is or > > > > should be is out of the range of this group's mandate. > > > Robin wrote: > > > Exactly. Thanks for stating so clearly. > I would have to disagree that considering the protective qualities of a shirt while fencing is out of this group's mandate. This is a historical clothing discussion group and the qualities of clothing are what we discuss and consider especially in the context in which they were worn. We would not eliminate discussing the retentive heat factor of wool skivvies in protecting against the cold, why should the protective nature of a shirt during a fencing match not be considered? A shirt is considered to be protection for the skin if a sword with nicks in it is run across it, that should not be dismissed. That it is inadequate protection against thrusts is another quality. Statements about observations of what other people do are not endorsements of their safety policies it is mere discussion of how other people perceive and use clothing. Cheers, Lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 01:36:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16410 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:36:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E6c2i1022506; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E6c1iN021133; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E6bbiN021059 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:37:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10748 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:49:11 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions/protection In-Reply-To: <002c01c2bb94$fd1ec000$250977d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:49:11 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: Mike wrote: > > Certainly, the shirt in this case is not meant or intended as any sort > > of protection against injury, so any consideration that it is or > > should be is out of the range of this group's mandate. I replied: > > > > Exactly. Thanks for stating so clearly. Lisa responded: > I would have to disagree that considering the protective qualities of > a shirt while fencing is out of this group's mandate. This is a > historical clothing discussion group and the qualities of clothing are > what we discuss and consider especially in the context in which they > were worn. ... I can't speak for Mike, but when I wrote my "Exactly," I was reading "this group" to refer to my friend's fencing group, not the h-cost list. It is correct that the fencing group in question is not using shirts for protection, so that needn't be a factor in the discussion of my original question. In other words, the focus of my original question was not "what sort of shirt would be the best to wear for fencing," but simply "what were the dominant shirt construction techniques of 1409 Italy," and I am very happy to have received some replies on that question. I provided the information on the fencing group to clarify my priorities for authenticity, durability, etc. for this project, in the same line as someone else might specify "this is for an SCA event," or "this is for a theater production," or "this is for a museum exhibit." I would agree with Lisa that in discussion of historical combat wear in general, and also the use of clothing for other reenactments of martial techniques in which accurate costuming is a priority, the issue of protection would be very much on-topic, and I truly can't imagine anyone having a problem with that. (If we got into a protracted discussion of fencing techniques independent of clothing, that could reasonably be considered straying. Not an issue here so far.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 01:38:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16414 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:38:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E6e2i1022586; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E6e0iN021590; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E6dIiN021437 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10765 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:50:52 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions In-Reply-To: <001401c2bb8f$194d29c0$250977d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:50:52 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote: > Robin, there is a frecsco by Benozzo Gozzoli in Davenport's the book of > costume on page 277 of an italian men's shirt 1468-85, image 754 which would > be suitable for a fencing shirt. Thank you! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 03:17:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA31805 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:17:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E8J2i1025586; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0E8J0iN016330; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0E8IWiN016258 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:18:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030114081832.59263.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:18:32 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: sack dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002801c2bb62$e1b611b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:18:32 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Dear Albert Cat > I have a pattern draft i can upload tomorrow. I used an original pattern > after M. Leloir. > It is the first time i used a french pattern. It would be wonxderful if you could send the link to the list. I think I know which pattern you used but would love to double-check. (not that I'd ever be able to make such a dress *L*) > I am exhausted, and i still have a lot to do. Sew all the trimmings on to the > fabric, sew the back pleats on and then make all the hem of the overdress. > Finally the stomacher. Oh poor Bjarne, you always work yourself to exhaustion, don't get burnt out again! I do hope you continue to enjoy making costumes, because this dress is beautiful, it will be gorgeous. Looking forward to see photos with the lady in the dress in daylight. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 04:59:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28427 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 04:59:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EA18i1028434; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EA11iN009463; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EA0diN009393 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from p96-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.96] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18YNs5-0007ql-00; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:00:37 +1300 Message-ID: <00e801c2bbb3$c5c57f30$60c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030114041149.47840.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:00:29 +1300 Status: RO As usual exquisite work Bjarne:) Next time I'm in europe you *have* to let me drop by;) Can't believe I was Danmark and didn't know about you at the time:( I also missed out on seeing the Herjolfsnes finds while there too.... Will you be making the ruffles etc from the same fabric? Can't wait to see more photos:) > Bjarne you are an inspiration! I'm in the SCA, doing > 16th century Venetian, and trying *desperately* not to > fall in love with other time periods. But failing, > thanks in a big way to you! :) lol! I know I was the same with Nicoles mantua;) It's an era I really couldn't get into by looking at the prints of the time, and actually being cast in a scene from The Way of Th World from 1700. But seeing garments,one in Blanche Payne's book, one in a Met Museum book and Nicole's it really showed the true beauty of the style:) > I know you patterned this dress yourself, but (anyone) > is there a good pattern out there for something > similar? Just in case I win the lottery or something, > you understand.... :) heheh, there are some patterns in books. I know Blanche Payne's first edition had patterns and I'm sure there is at least one saque... I also traced a few patterns from older books too.. and one book out of copyright with diagrams rather than patterns.... And there is a diagram of a robe a la Francaise by Leloir here: http://www.costumes.org/pages/18thpatterns.htm not a pattern though... and more patterns: http://www.costumes.org/pages/diderot.htm michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 05:38:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28525 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 05:38:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAe2i1029823; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAe0iN013998; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAdoiN013959 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:39:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BCE7D2639E0 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:39:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001501c2bbb9$45429310$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Pattern of sackdress by M. Leloir Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:39:52 +0100 Status: RO Hi. Needed a little break in sewing so i uploaded the pattern for you. Just click on the small picture and you get a better scan. M. Leloir took this pattern from a real garment at Muse´e du Costume, Paris. I didnt make the pocket slit in the skirt. My fabric is two light to have such a slit, it would spoil the look of the skirt after my oppinion. Have fun! Here is the URL: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/scan002.htm Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 05:40:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28540 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 05:40:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAg3i1029852; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAg1iN014438; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAfciN014308 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:41:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6CE03262ED6 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:41:37 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001b01c2bbb9$868237e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <200301140242.TAA02682@lariat.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skiing in skirts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:41:41 +0100 Status: RO I remember i have seen a poster once with a lady skiing in skirts. I think the poster was from about 1910. It was a poster from a famous skiing resort. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 8:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] Skiing in skirts > A couple of friends and I are considering doing some skiing in retro > fashion, wearing skirts, for a lark. I fancy a mid-calf wool skirt with > stretch side panels, and vest to match. But what about the fabric > for the stretch panels? > > Modern ski wear is not only expensive, but relentlessly synthetic. > My favorite ski pants have always been the wool-blend stretch > pants with stirrups from the 50's and 60's, the early days of the ski > industry (here in the American West). These pants are warm, they > take an serious beating, and can still be found in thrift stores, > where I buy them a bit oversized for machine washing. I have a > pair right now, manfactured by Mehrer of Norway, of 60% wool, > 35% nylon, and 5% Lycra. Past searches for this kind of yardage > have yielded nothing. Anybody have a source? > > And is there any history of women skiing in skirts? I know of skirts > (quilted) used as ski wear for religious reasons, but the U.S., as far > as I can tell, has no such mainstream tradition. Europe, perhaps? > Skiing as recreation may simply postdate pants for women, but > what about skiing as transportation for chores and visits? > > -- > Robin Hill hillrk@lariat.org > Laramie, Wyoming > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 05:45:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28550 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 05:45:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAl1i1029945; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAl0iN015471; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAkoiN015432 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:46:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E50F02630BC for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:46:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003601c2bbba$40f319a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Pattern by M. Leloir Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:46:54 +0100 Status: RO Sorry, the better url is this: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sack_dress_1770.htm Then you can also have a look how the real garment looks like. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 05:47:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28554 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 05:47:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAn3i1000107; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EAn2iN015938; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EAm9iN015761 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:48:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030114104809.94511.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:48:09 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern by M. Leloir To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <003601c2bbba$40f319a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:48:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Sorry, the better url is this: > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sack_dress_1770.htm > > Then you can also have a look how the real garment looks like. Wonderful! Thank you so much Bjarne. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 08:46:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29069 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:46:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EDlHi1004800; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:47:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EDjFiN026489; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EDiZiN026276 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:44:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m194.in-tch.com [216.166.191.194]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0EDS2927316 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:28:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E241469.EB3668D6@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern of sackdress by M. Leloir References: <001501c2bbb9$45429310$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:45:13 -0700 Status: RO Cool pattern! I take it that piece VIII is the underskirt/petticoat? and that one just puts the ruffly decorations in the front, where they'll be seen through the front opening of the overskirt? *sigh* And the dress is bee-yootiful, although my monitor *does* show it as hot pink and turquoise! Good luck, Bjarne, getting it done...we're all pulling for you! --sue p.s. Bella, hang out on this list long enough and you *will* get seduced to the dark side of post-16th c. costume! At least, it sure happened that way with me....and then, there are all those yummy classes on Penny's website Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi. > Needed a little break in sewing so i uploaded the pattern for you. > Just click on the small picture and you get a better scan. > M. Leloir took this pattern from a real garment at Muse´e du Costume, Paris. > I didnt make the pocket slit in the skirt. My fabric is two light to have > such a slit, it would spoil the look of the skirt after my oppinion. > Have fun! > Here is the URL: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/scan002.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 08:52:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29093 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:52:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EDs6i1005041; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EDs1iN028997; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EDruiN028945 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:53:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m194.in-tch.com [216.166.191.194]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0EDbN900108 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:37:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E24169A.CBB7559D@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress References: <20030114041149.47840.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:54:34 -0700 Status: RO Hi, Bella. I don't know if you're thinking of patterns taken from extant garments like the one Bjarne used, or something else. But.... There's this neat lady, J.P. Ryan, who teaches some late-18th c. clothing classes through Penny's website: http://www.costumeclassroom.com/ The nice thing about JP's classes, at least how they're set up now, is that they run year-round. JP also has her own website, at which she sells her patterns. I own two of them (the stays, and the caraco jacket). http://www.jpryan.com/ladiespatterns.html Enjoy! --Sue Bella wrote: > > Bjarne you are an inspiration! I'm in the SCA, doing > 16th century Venetian, and trying *desperately* not to > fall in love with other time periods. But failing, > thanks in a big way to you! :) > > I know you patterned this dress yourself, but (anyone) > is there a good pattern out there for something > similar? Just in case I win the lottery or something, > you understand.... :) > > Bella > > http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies > - What's on at your local cinema? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 09:07:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29156 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:07:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EE94i1005642; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:09:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EE91iN003550; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EE8EiN003357 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0EE8H106376.; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:08:17 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:08:12 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyestrain -> nearsightedness -> blindness? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0EE8EiN003357 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:07:41 +0000 Status: RO Samuel Pepys gave up keeping a detailed private diary after ten years because he believed he was going blind after all that time spent writing in code last thing at night. In fact he lived another 40-plus years and never did lose his sight. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 09:11:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29176 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:11:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EECvi1005844; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EECAiN004517; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:12:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EEBbiN004315 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:11:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m194.in-tch.com [216.166.191.194]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0EDt4905744 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:55:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E241ABF.6E9AC0CD@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume lecture re-scheduled References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:12:15 -0700 Status: RO *snort* Isn't that like searching for the Holy Grail?? --sue, completely tongue-in-cheek AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > Dr. Colleen Gau's lecture, "Looking for the Perfect Bra," has been > re-scheduled for Sunday, February 2, at 2:00 p.m. at the Riversdale > House Museum, 4811 Riverdale Road, Riverdale Park MD. Dr. Gau is the > co-author of "Uplift: the Bra in America," and will also be signing > copies of her book. Cost of the lecture is $5.00. > For more information call 301-864-0420. > Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 09:18:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29221 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:18:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EEKCi1006270; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EEK4iN006899; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from web10003.mail.yahoo.com (web10003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EEJWiN006721 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:19:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030114141928.65291.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.50.56.226] by web10003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:19:28 PST From: Kay Shelton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030114001701.13442.52973.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Maker's Art Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:19:28 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Thanks Angharat. I just checked www.abebooks.com and now Costume Maker's Art is $125.00. I am one of the people on the waiting list at Amazon and have been for a couple of years now. I guess I'll just keep enjoying the library copy for a while longer. Thank you for sharing your research, anyway. Kay Kay, To find this wonderful, but out-of-print book, I did several searches on the bookseller's list. Amazon.com (US) had people waiting to have a copy come up available. I didn't check the other sites. ISBN.nu wasn't much help for me on this one unfortunately, nor was Hamiltonbooks.com. Half.com (i think) the one attached to eBay, had several listings for copies, but upwards of $170 US for them! I think there was one for $75 US there though. www.abebooks.com had a listing with abyssbooks so I was able to obtain a very good hardcover edition, for more than the original price, sure, but under $70, including the shipping. It showed up while I was at the con, so a spiff way to end the weekend! Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 09:30:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29304 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:30:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EEW4i1006885; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EEW03d010885; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EEVc3d010753 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:31:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0EEVf107805.; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:31:41 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:31:37 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Generalls Musick & Players at M.O.L. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0EEVc3d010753 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:31:22 +0000 Status: RO (Have sent an attachment to Sue privately) We musicians appear in the distance (under the "Round Table") in the first picture from Winchester, but that's all as it's the dance group's website. When our own site gets off the ground there should be plenty of pics. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> mooncat@in-tch.com 01/13/03 04:58am >>> Thanks, Kate. Are you in any of the pictures? Everyone's outfits look great! --sue, who has to hide her hair, too (not too short, but not long enough, either, and definitely too fine to do much with ) Kate M Bunting wrote: > > (Blushing) Many thanks for your kind words, Stevie! > > Our secretary is supposed to be setting up a website for the group; when this materialises, I'll let everyone have the address. You can see a picture of the dancers at the event at http://www.hants.gov.uk/basdance/index3.html > > To Sue who asked about my outfit - The bodice is a simplified version of the 1630s one in the V&A (see Nicole's website www.kipar.org under Costume - Surviving garments) made in a terracotta-coloured glazed cotton. The skirt is blue brocade with a small pattern. To hide my short hair I wear a semi-opaque black veil. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 10:01:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29492 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:01:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EF32i1008719; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EF303d021907; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web10001.mail.yahoo.com (web10001.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EF253d021546 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:02:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030114150204.68347.qmail@web10001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.50.56.226] by web10001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:02:04 PST From: Kay Shelton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030114033800.23867.72645.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: the Costume Maker's Art Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:02:04 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Wrong side of the country, drat it! And the on-line sources are showing $125.00 at the lowest. I just bought QE's Wardrobe Unlocked, so I guess I'll have to wait until next Christmas for this one! Thanks for looking! Kay At 12:58 PM -0800 1/13/03, Kay Shelton wrote: >Angharad, where did you get a copy of _The >Costume Maker's Art_? I've been looking and looking. >Kay There was a second-hand copy at Moe's Books in Berkeley this afternoon. Heather __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 10:11:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29540 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:11:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFC3i1009708; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFC03d025783; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFBS3d025475 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:11:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from JBrendlingerLT.sbcglobal.net (adsl-66-124-153-210.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [66.124.153.210]) by pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0EFBRmn215854 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:11:27 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030114065404.00af3bc8@pop.sbcglobal.net> X-Sender: joycebre@pop.sbcglobal.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joyce In-Reply-To: <20030114033800.23867.72645.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: skiing in skirts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:11:25 -0800 Status: RO At 08:38 PM 1/13/2003 -0700, you wrote: >A couple of friends and I are considering doing some skiing in retro >fashion, wearing skirts, for a lark. I fancy a mid-calf wool skirt with >stretch side panels, and vest to match. But what about the fabric >for the stretch panels? well, in the early 70's when I was learning to ski, I once saw a woman skiing in a skirt. She was telemarking too, which was not all that common then. My unreliable memory says wool skirt, probably gored, it was full enough at the bottom that she didn't have any trouble with it being too tight, or needing stretch panels. She was wearing a wool sweater. I think it might have been ankle length. Looked quite comfortable. As far as what they wore historically, I'm afraid I'm not much help. For a fabric source, try Rainshed Outdoor Fabrics 541-753-8900. They used to sell fabric like this, I don't know if they still do or not. As far as I know, they don't have a web site. >And is there any history of women skiing in skirts? I know of skirts >(quilted) used as ski wear for religious reasons, but the U.S., as far >as I can tell, has no such mainstream tradition. Europe, perhaps? >Skiing as recreation may simply postdate pants for women, but >what about skiing as transportation for chores and visits? I think snowshoeing might have been more likely for this, but that's just a guess on my part. -- Joyce _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 10:19:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29642 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:19:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFK8i1010281; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFK73d029211; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:20:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFJn3d029083 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:19:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0EFJr110443.; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:19:53 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:19:48 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0EFJn3d029083 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:19:14 +0000 Status: RO Yes, Richard Scollins is a British dialect expert; he co-wrote a book called "Ey up, mi duck" about the East Midlands dialect. I can't trace "O for a muse of foyre" in my sources here, but guess from the title that it was an attempt to reproduce the original pronunciation of Shakespeare's plays. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> r.carnegie@verizon.net 01/11/03 05:07pm >>> > > From: Marsha Hamilton > Date: 2003/01/10 Fri PM 04:41:45 EST > To: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations > > Plimoth Plantation used to sell an audio tape (I have a copy) called > "O FOR A MUSE OF FOYRE!" by Richard Scollins and Ram's Bottom. It was $9.95 > back in the day and demonstrates the accent used by interpretive staff at > Plimoth Plantation. > > Foyre (like foyer) by the way is the pronunciation of "fire". If you listen > to the tape enough times, you can pick up the accent which is rough, vaguely > rural English, fun to try. > > I didn't find the tape listed on Plimoth's website but > they may be able to assist if you contact them. Good luck. > > Marsha > --------- The tape is still available, though I am having trouble remembering where I last saw it. Try Sykes Sutlery. It is NOT however THE accent used at Plimoth. It was produced by a British Company. Plimoth uses several different dialects reflecting the main areas of England that the Pilgrim's originally came from. They are expected to learn the dialect assigned to their character. The interpreters there are also taught a smattering of Nederlander since they had been leaving there. Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 10:26:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29688 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:26:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFR1i1010882; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFR03d002398; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.65.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EFQn3d002251 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:26:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20263 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jan 2003 15:26:43 -0000 Received: from pd9e4fc15.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.228.252.21) by mail.gmx.net (mp007-rz3) with SMTP; 14 Jan 2003 15:26:43 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Munich Exhibit Catalog Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:26:41 +0100 Status: RO HI All! I would like to ask all those who ordered a catalog through me to please send me a quick mail and let me know if you got it! For some it has been up to 6 weeks since they ordered. I did say it could take up to 8 weeks since the books went to the States by slow boat. As far as I know all the Europeans got theirs (since there usually is not a boat necessary in the delivery ;) - if not let me know! All this is to check to see if doing it through me is a viable option in getting this really cool book! I don't want to have any more sent until people in the States start getting theirs. Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 10:54:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29938 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:54:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFu2i1013335; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFu0jK016588; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EFt7jK016125 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:55:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.11]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8P00F46O7T9W@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:55:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Maker's Art In-reply-to: <20030114141928.65291.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030114074936.05276ce0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030114001701.13442.52973.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:49:55 -0800 Status: RO >Thanks Angharat. I just checked www.abebooks.com and >now Costume Maker's Art is $125.00. I am one of the >people on the waiting list at Amazon and have been for >a couple of years now. I guess I'll just keep >enjoying the library copy for a while longer. Thank >you for sharing your research, anyway. Kay That's for the paperback edition??? Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 11:19:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30087 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:19:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGK2i1015739; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGK1jK029531; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGJgjK029274 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.11b.1cb7566a (16484) for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:19:07 -0500 (EST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: <11b.1cb7566a.2b55927b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern by M. Leloir To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:19:07 EST Status: RO Sniff! !!!!! I so wanted to see Bjarne's dress---but using that url, I kept getting the message that the page was removed:( Albra( VERY disappointed:( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 11:35:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30198 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:35:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGb6i1017407; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGb3jK009638; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf07bis.bellsouth.net (mail307.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.167]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGatjK009438 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:36:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from sarah ([66.20.170.188]) by imf07bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20030114163842.JIJV28302.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@sarah> for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:38:42 -0500 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: "h-costume@indra. com" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:36:10 -0500 Status: RO I am in the process of making this dress and camicia and am stumped as to whether the camicia is all one piece, or if it is a partlet and camicia... I am leaning towards partlet and camicia, but I wanted to know what you all thought... http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/workdiary/images/3campi.jpg Thanks! Apollonia Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi Kingdom of Atlantia www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia **Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 11:53:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30289 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:53:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGs1i1019523; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGs0xW021732; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGrjxW021614 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B215A5EF00A for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:53:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001c01c2bbed$8f2d2920$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <11b.1cb7566a.2b55927b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern by M. Leloir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:54:10 +0100 Status: RO Try again, perhaps i was sending files to the webplace!! Bjarne Otherwise let me know and ill send it for you... Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern by M. Leloir > Sniff! !!!!! I so wanted to see Bjarne's dress---but using that url, I kept > getting the message that the page was removed:( > Albra( VERY disappointed:( > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 12:02:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30321 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:02:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGr8i1019415; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGr1xW021150; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EGqcxW020903 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:52:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 443535EEC2D for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:52:36 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001601c2bbed$66377930$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] update of sack dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:53:01 +0100 Status: RO Worked like a horse today and still not finished yierk!!!! Then i got an email from my costumer, saying she dont need the dress for the birdsday because it is an informal occation. Her dress is two informal she thinks for the occation. I am very happy about this because it gives me more time to make the finishing touches. I hate to be in a hurry mostly because the sewing gets so wrong...................... sigh. This night i am going to serv english beefstick and a bottle of red wine. It was my birdsday yesterday, and we had pizza because i was so buisy. My birdsday pressent from Leif was: Jack Cassin Scott "Making Historical Costume Dolls" YYYYYYYYYIIIppie YEahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! The latest photos show the real colour!!!!!!!!!! http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sack_dress_1770.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 12:15:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30387 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:15:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHG5i1021451; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:16:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHG1xW004891; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHFFxW004375 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.a3.37759d5a (3932) for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:14:34 -0500 (EST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern of sackdress by M. Leloir To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:14:33 EST Status: RO Well--I was finally successful in getting to Bjarne's site:) Boooootiful, booootiful work!! I think I am about to get 'seduced to the Dark Side' very soon:) Albra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 12:15:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30391 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:15:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHGFi1021493; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHGExW005012; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EHFcxW004658 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:15:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030114171537.31722.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:15:37 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of sack dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001601c2bbed$66377930$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:15:37 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > This night i am going to serv english beefstick and a bottle of red wine. It > was my birdsday yesterday, and we had pizza because i was so buisy. > My birdsday pressent from Leif was: Jack Cassin Scott "Making Historical > Costume Dolls" YYYYYYYYYIIIppie YEahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY Bjarne! So glad you don't have to work in such a mad rush now. Looking forward to see the finished product and have fun doll making! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 12:18:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30403 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:18:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHK6i1021893; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHK5xW007397; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13310.mail.yahoo.com (web13310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EHJLxW007035 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:19:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030114171920.42522.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:19:20 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:19:20 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi wrote: > I am in the process of making this dress and camicia and am stumped as to > whether the camicia is all one piece, or if it is a partlet and camicia... > I am leaning towards partlet and camicia, but I wanted to know what you all > thought... > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/workdiary/images/3campi.jpg > >From what I can see on my monitor (and not having a clue about Italian clothing) it looks like two part, there is a line down which looks like the neck opening of the camicia, and then as if there were two collars, one being the partlet. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 12:19:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30407 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:19:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHK1i1021874; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHK1xW007355; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHJFxW006988 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:19:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 561DC5EE9A9 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:19:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000b01c2bbf1$1e9ddd90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] sack dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:19:39 +0100 Status: RO Sorry about all my buisy postings for you. I am angry................ I think it was very rude of my costumer to make me make that dress and stop the embroidered dress for my amarikan costumer. She told me her dress was tared apart and she didn have anything to wear. But she must have another dress she can use. I had to tell my amarikan costumer that i had lumonia and had to stop for a while. She didnt mind, and she was not going to use it for any occasion, but anyway,, i think it was wrong............. Off cause i am glad because it gave me more time to make the dress, but still i am angry................. Sorry folks, just had to tell somebody................. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 12:54:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30519 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:54:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHo2i1024686; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EHo0xW025072; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EHntxW025012 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:49:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030114174954.59390.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:49:54 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000b01c2bbf1$1e9ddd90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:49:54 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Sorry about all my buisy postings for you. > I am angry................ > I think it was very rude of my costumer to make me make that dress and stop > the embroidered dress for my amarikan costumer. She told me her dress was > tared apart and she didn have anything to wear. > But she must have another dress she can use. > I had to tell my amarikan costumer that i had lumonia and had to stop for a > while. > She didnt mind, and she was not going to use it for any occasion, but > anyway,, i think it was wrong............. > Off cause i am glad because it gave me more time to make the dress, but > still i am angry................. > Sorry folks, just had to tell somebody................. I understand dear, I just didn't want to say it and saw the bright side, of you not having to hurry too much anymore. Take a rest, sit down and have a wonderful evening meal, read through your new book and keep us posted with anything you are making. :-) I s'pose you can see us as your agony aunts. :-)) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 13:10:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30585 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:10:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIBDi1026777; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:11:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIB2xW007694; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIA2xW007142 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0EI9tpQ095857 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:09:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301141809.h0EI9tpQ095857@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Maker's Art To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Kay Shelton" at Jan 14, 2003 06:19:28 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:09:55 -0800 (PST) Status: RO What makes this book so wonderful..? (just what I need, one more thing to want) .heather. > > Thanks Angharat. I just checked www.abebooks.com and > now Costume Maker's Art is $125.00. I am one of the > people on the waiting list at Amazon and have been for > a couple of years now. I guess I'll just keep > enjoying the library copy for a while longer. Thank > you for sharing your research, anyway. Kay > > > Kay, > > To find this wonderful, but out-of-print book, I did > several searches on the bookseller's list. > > Amazon.com (US) had people waiting to have a copy come > up available. I didn't check the other sites. > > ISBN.nu wasn't much help for me on this one > unfortunately, nor was Hamiltonbooks.com. > > Half.com (i think) the one attached to eBay, had > several listings for copies, but upwards of $170 US > for them! I think there was one for $75 US there > though. > > www.abebooks.com had a listing with abyssbooks so I > was able to obtain a very good hardcover edition, for > more than the original price, sure, but under $70, > including the shipping. > > It showed up while I was at the con, so a spiff way to > end the weekend! > > Angharat > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 13:14:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30602 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:14:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIE1i1027010; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIE1xW009417; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIDvxW009379 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:13:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0EIDoIM095899 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301141813.h0EIDoIM095899@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume lecture re-scheduled To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Sue Clemenger" at Jan 14, 2003 07:12:15 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:13:50 -0800 (PST) Status: RO oh, I found one this year. supportive, perfect under a tshirt and an evening dress, less than $30... microfiber comfort... as a G cup, that was a 20 year search, finally ended. Then, of course, Lunaire stopped making the bra six weeks after I tested it and fell in love with it. I haven't been able to find deadstock anywhere I'm waiting until it dies completely and then I'm going to teach myself to make bras... (and yes I already have most of the URLs out there for how to do it, and the bra FAQ...) .heather. > > *snort* > Isn't that like searching for the Holy Grail?? > --sue, completely tongue-in-cheek > > AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > > > Dr. Colleen Gau's lecture, "Looking for the Perfect Bra," has been > > re-scheduled for Sunday, February 2, at 2:00 p.m. at the Riversdale > > House Museum, 4811 Riverdale Road, Riverdale Park MD. Dr. Gau is the > > co-author of "Uplift: the Bra in America," and will also be signing > > copies of her book. Cost of the lecture is $5.00. > > For more information call 301-864-0420. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 13:35:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30693 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:35:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIaBi1029091; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:36:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIa4xW022697; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIZpxW022544 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:35:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 078495EED85 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:35:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001701c2bbfb$d3bb5450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] origin of words, wheelfarthingale_ fishboneskirt. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:36:17 +0100 Status: RO Hello again,. Just setteling down again and relaxing................... While sewing i often sit and think about historical sewing things. Thoaght about the word wheel farthingale and then the danish word for an 18th century hoop called fishbone skirt "fiskebens skørt" Perhaps that danish word also is a wrong phrase, because when i think of it, no skirts ever had whalebones in it? Does any of you know of any skirt supports with whalebone? The large sweedish hoop under the coronation dress of Sophia Magdalena had steels, a danish hip panier had wood and what about the rest of the surviving supports? Where could i find more information about a danish word fiskebens skirt, knowing when it was invented? Was this word just made because they knew that the corsets had whalebones, and then thoaght the skirts had the same thing? Was it just a romantic thoaght? Would it not be impossible to make an 18th century hoop with whalebone? would the bones be long enough? Tomorrow i am going to put the last embroidery to the frame! Really missed my embroidery. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 13:35:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30697 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:35:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIO9i1027982; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIO1xW015493; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIN3xW014931 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:23:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.144.7ccf7ac (17526) for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:22:53 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <144.7ccf7ac.2b55af7d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_144.7ccf7ac.2b55af7d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:22:53 EST Status: RO --part1_144.7ccf7ac.2b55af7d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/14/2003 12:20:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > Off cause i am glad because it gave me more time to make the dress, but > still i am angry................. > Charge her a rush fee anyway. --part1_144.7ccf7ac.2b55af7d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/14/2003 12:20:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


Off cause i am glad because it gave me more time to make the dress, but
still i am angry.................


Charge her a rush fee anyway. --part1_144.7ccf7ac.2b55af7d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 13:40:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30742 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:40:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIf4i1029599; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:41:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIf2xW025858; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIbcxW023733 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:37:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003011418373300100hr2a1e>; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:37:33 +0000 Message-ID: <00e901c2bbfc$97fa6f40$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <200301141813.h0EIDoIM095899@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume lecture re-scheduled MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:38:40 -0600 Status: RO Big Lots or other such places will have it if not now, soon. That is where I found a similar item that I thought I would never see again. Bought them all out from every store I could find. :) Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume lecture re-scheduled > oh, I found one this year. supportive, perfect under a tshirt and an evening > dress, less than $30... microfiber comfort... > as a G cup, that was a 20 year search, finally ended. > > Then, of course, Lunaire stopped making the bra six weeks after I tested it > and fell in love with it. I haven't been able to find deadstock anywhere > > I'm waiting until it dies completely and then I'm going to teach myself to make > bras... (and yes I already have most of the URLs out there for how to do it, and > the bra FAQ...) > > .heather. > > > > > > *snort* > > Isn't that like searching for the Holy Grail?? > > --sue, completely tongue-in-cheek > > > > AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Dr. Colleen Gau's lecture, "Looking for the Perfect Bra," has been > > > re-scheduled for Sunday, February 2, at 2:00 p.m. at the Riversdale > > > House Museum, 4811 Riverdale Road, Riverdale Park MD. Dr. Gau is the > > > co-author of "Uplift: the Bra in America," and will also be signing > > > copies of her book. Cost of the lecture is $5.00. > > > For more information call 301-864-0420. > > > Ann Wass > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 13:47:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30772 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:47:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EImBi1000507; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:48:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIm1xW000356; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIlHxW029809 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:47:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0EIlBku096276 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:47:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301141847.h0EIlBku096276@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume lecture re-scheduled To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "chiara" at Jan 14, 2003 12:38:40 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:47:11 -0800 (PST) Status: RO it's not that big of a brand, I am afraid... > > Big Lots or other such places will have it if not now, soon. > > That is where I found a similar item that I thought I would never see again. > Bought them all out from every store I could find. :) > > Sincerely, > Chiara > Ansteorra, Steppes > Not all ermine spots are created equally > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Meadows" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 12:13 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume lecture re-scheduled > > > > oh, I found one this year. supportive, perfect under a tshirt and an > evening > > dress, less than $30... microfiber comfort... > > as a G cup, that was a 20 year search, finally ended. > > > > Then, of course, Lunaire stopped making the bra six weeks after I tested > it > > and fell in love with it. I haven't been able to find deadstock anywhere > > > > I'm waiting until it dies completely and then I'm going to teach myself to > make > > bras... (and yes I already have most of the URLs out there for how to do > it, and > > the bra FAQ...) > > > > .heather. > > > > > > > > > > *snort* > > > Isn't that like searching for the Holy Grail?? > > > --sue, completely tongue-in-cheek > > > > > > AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Dr. Colleen Gau's lecture, "Looking for the Perfect Bra," has been > > > > re-scheduled for Sunday, February 2, at 2:00 p.m. at the Riversdale > > > > House Museum, 4811 Riverdale Road, Riverdale Park MD. Dr. Gau is the > > > > co-author of "Uplift: the Bra in America," and will also be signing > > > > copies of her book. Cost of the lecture is $5.00. > > > > For more information call 301-864-0420. > > > > Ann Wass > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 13:57:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30913 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:57:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIvti1001343; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIvnxW006282; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:57:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EIrixW003874 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:53:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C2115EEAA2 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:53:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c2bbfe$553ec6e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <144.7ccf7ac.2b55af7d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2BC06.B6DF7A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:54:14 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2BC06.B6DF7A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable She did send me money today, soooooooooooooo it is ok. Bjarne. Those money is going for books, silks and wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=20 Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AlbertCat@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress In a message dated 1/14/2003 12:20:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, = drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Off cause i am glad because it gave me more time to make the dress, = but still i am angry................. Charge her a rush fee anyway.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2BC06.B6DF7A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
She did send me money today, = soooooooooooooo it is=20 ok.
Bjarne.
Those money is going for books, silks = and=20 wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk
=
 
http://home0.inet.tele.dk/dr= ewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 AlbertCat@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 = 7:22=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack = dress

In a=20 message dated 1/14/2003 12:20:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk=20 writes:


Off cause i am glad because it gave me more time to make = the=20 dress, but
still i am=20 angry.................


Charge her a rush fee anyway.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2BC06.B6DF7A40-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 14:11:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31045 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:11:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EJB8i1002799; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:11:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EJB2xW014383; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EJAexW014132 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:10:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <20030114191033003006016fe>; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:10:33 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114110819.00aabdd0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? In-Reply-To: <20030114171920.42522.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:08:51 -0800 Status: RO I agree. I very definitely see two necklines. maryann At 05:19 PM 1/14/2003 +0000, you wrote: > --- Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi >wrote: > I am in the process of making this dress and camicia and am >stumped as >to > > whether the camicia is all one piece, or if it is a partlet and camicia... > > I am leaning towards partlet and camicia, but I wanted to know what you all > > thought... > > > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/workdiary/images/3campi.jpg > > > From what I can see on my monitor (and not having a clue about Italian >clothing) it looks like two part, there is a line down which looks like the >neck opening of the camicia, and then as if there were two collars, one being >the partlet. > >Nicole > >===== >Nicole Kipar M.A. >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: nicole@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 14:19:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31098 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:19:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EJK4i1003546; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EJK2xW019480; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EJJjxW019320 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AD2F75EF0A1 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:19:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003b01c2bc01$f84780e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114110819.00aabdd0@mail.attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:20:16 +0100 Status: RO I have not followed this, but two necklines? I se a fold in the shirt, not another neckline. This picture is very interresting. I never thoaght that ruffs were attached to the shirt. I always thoaght it was a seperate garment. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 14:35:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31184 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:35:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EJa5i1004955; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EJa1xW028674; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EJZCxW028246 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:35:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f09.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.9]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A814B5EF088 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:35:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <014c01c2bc04$224937b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114110819.00aabdd0@mail.attbi.com> <003b01c2bc01$f84780e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:35:45 +0100 Status: RO I am so sorry, i never should have said that. It is not my period, and i shoud shot my mouth. Next year i want to order Margos Patterns and then i want to start rennaissance................. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 15:01:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31304 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:01:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EK25i1007912; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:02:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EK20TT013244; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EK19TT012737 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AC84B7130108; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:01:08 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AC83AB9010C; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:01:07 -0600 Message-ID: <025b01c2bc07$8c81b960$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:00:12 -0500 Status: RO A friend told me about this cool fabric site http://www.ladybuttonfabrics.com/cgi-bin/shopping/imgsearch.cgi You can search by topic. I was looking for Japanese prints and entered that in the search category. Came up with some nice one. I also know they have Medieval prints too. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 15:17:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31354 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:17:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKJ2i1009494; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKJ0TT022706; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EKI0TT022101 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWuxmoQbX4ynBn5natsCOLvtU1bNGSyxuzA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNHUGSDE; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:17:18 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress Message-ID: <20030114.151434.-642671.4.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:37:42 -0500 Status: RO And you have every right to be angry. It was a selfish thing for her to fib to you. You are so nice to go to all that work and then have her say "oh never mind - I won't need it after all". What a nice person you are not to have told her off and let her find someone else to make her a costume that wouldn't be half as nice as anything you can do. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 15:17:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31358 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:17:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKJDi1009517; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKJCTT022836; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EKI0TT022100 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWuxmoQbX4ynBn5natsCOLvvhkaJ2FBk3Zw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNHUGSDD; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:17:18 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20030114.151434.-642671.3.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_7599.158e.0a3c From: Lalah T Tillinghast Subject: [h-cost] Belated happy birthday Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:34:39 -0500 Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_7599.158e.0a3c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And a very happy birthday (if a day late) to you Bjarne!!!! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender ----__JNP_000_7599.158e.0a3c Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
        And a very happy birthday (if a day late) to you=20 Bjarne!!!!
 
Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
----__JNP_000_7599.158e.0a3c-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 15:24:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31390 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:24:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKO0i1009902; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKO0TT025301; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EKNcTT025126 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:23:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWuxmoQbX4ynBBUptRyvR69HMa6yfUVL2Qw=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNHUSD55; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:22:34 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress Message-ID: <20030114.151918.-642671.8.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_0526.4264.69a6 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:19:17 -0500 Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_0526.4264.69a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<>> Bjarne, I love your priorities!! Enjoy Lalah Never give up, Never surrender ----__JNP_000_0526.4264.69a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<<Those money is going for books= , silks=20 and wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>
 
Bjarne, I love your priorities!!  Enjoy
 
Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
----__JNP_000_0526.4264.69a6-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 15:34:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31430 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:34:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKP4i1009998; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKP0TT025802; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0EKOeTT025590 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:24:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWuxmoQbX4ynB1kArQBdjICXKb291cue7BQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNHUT98S; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:23:35 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site Message-ID: <20030114.152049.-642671.9.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:20:49 -0500 Status: RO Gee, thanks! Just what I need, another place to spend money I don't have. Thanks, Penny Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 15:34:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31437 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:34:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKZ6i1010935; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:35:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKZ4TT001529; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EKY7TT000894 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:34:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0168.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.216.168] helo=[209.179.217.206]) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YXkx-00037V-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:34:05 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Lining Persian and Ottoman "Coats" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:34:58 -0800 Status: RO As I think I've mentioned, I've been working on creating a 16th century Persian outfit and a 16th century Ottoman outfit. For the prototypes, I used somewhat icky, but useable fabrics - comparatively inexpensive silk-looking synthetic damasks for the Persian tunic-coats and the Ottoman hirka, and a partly-synthetic upholstery Jacquard for the Ottoman khaftan. Once I get the bugs out, I'll make the outfits in somewhat better fabrics, mostly cotton and discount silk, and less polyester :-) so I can wear them camping, which is mostly what we do in The West Kingdom of the SCA. Then when I'm sure I've got it down, I'll use the expensive fabrics I've been buying over the past several years and hoarding in a dark corner of a closet - I'm really scared to cut into them - most of these were over $20 per yard, some much more, so I want to be sure I really know what I'm doing, and doing it well, before I destroy them. (I've already got the salwar/pants down, after making them for 3 years) From Persian paintings and surviving Ottoman garments I can see that the outer garments, which I'm calling "coats" here, all have wide facings at least, and are most likely fully lined. Many Ottoman garments actually appear to be both lined with one color, often white (cotton? linen?) and faced with a different color (usually intensely colored silk), and of course these are different from the outer fabrics (for example, rich golden yellow faced with intense kermes red, or medium cobalt indigo blue faced with olivey-leafy-poison green silk moire). But I can't see the seams and garment assembly, and I'm trying to decide just *how* to line the "coats". There are two ways I know of. One is flat lining, which I've done in the bodice of an 1830s dress I made. First, the lining and outer fabrics are cut into the same shapes. Next the lining fabric is sewn to each outer fabric piece individually. Finally the pieces are sewn together. The other way is, I think, called bag lining. In this case, you sew the outer fabric pieces together to make the garment. And you sew the lining fabric to make, as it were, a second garment. Then you sew the two "garments" together, so all the seams are hidden inside. So, two questions: First, anyone know how they were actually assembled? Which kind of lining technique? I'm leaning to flat lining, but I don't really know. Second, is there a special technique for lining a garment AND putting in facings, or vice versa? This is for the Ottomans. I've faced garments before, but i don't recall ever fully lining anything with a bag lining, so i've never put in both a facing and a lining in one garment. Thanks for any suggestions, Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 16:09:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31760 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:09:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELB3i1014433; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELB1VI021010; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELAgVI020835 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:10:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fdb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.219]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 32A864807E8 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:10:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001101c2bc11$7a7d67a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lining Persian and Ottoman "Coats" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:11:17 +0100 Status: RO Dear Lalah. Thanks a lot for your wonderfull back up! Ottoman costume is very luxurious. Did you ever se the pallace at Istanbul? I went there 3 times and was in awe when i saw the costumes, and the fabrics. I went to Turkey with a very deer friend of mine many years ago. It was my friend who persuaded me to go. Boy was i surprised of the friendly people and colture they had. I went with my friend 2 times more to Istanbull and we stayed there on a very cheep hospice where inter travellers stayed. Once more i went to Topkapi Palace and i never forget the wiev there was at the coffe shop over the waters! My friend died 2 years ago. He was an alcoholic. I shal never forget my friend, and i will always remember him when i think of turkey and Ottoman Empire. ps. My friend was not gay as i am, but we had a very nice friendship and it was only a few years later that i meat Leif my only love in life. Thanks Lalah!!!!!!!!!!! Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 16:38:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32245 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:38:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELe2i1017307; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELe0VI007746; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELdcVI007540 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:39:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fdb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.219]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 661594812E1 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:39:37 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002601c2bc15$88052990$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20030114.152049.-642671.9.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:40:17 +0100 Status: RO At least you can be inspired by the fabrics and this is free! i often gets inspired by fabrics to embroider!! Remember all things in life has a price. Those who are free, are the best!!!! Sorry folks. I have taken two much of your bandwidth tonight. but it was because i was so despared when i sat there sewing and could not catch up with you guys. Maybe also because i had a glass of red wine tooo much. Still i say like the danish expensive designer whom i dont remember the name of, she has a lot of expensive shops in London, Paris, Nice and Copenhagen, she says IT IS NEVER TWO MUCH! YYYYYYYYYYYOUPIIIeh Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lalah T Tillinghast" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site > Gee, thanks! Just what I need, another place to spend money I > don't have. Thanks, Penny > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 16:42:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32288 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:42:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELi2i1017720; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELi1VI010007; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELhpVI009920 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YYqZ-0007na-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:43:47 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000001c2bc16$098b6d30$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2BBDB.5D2C9530" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200301141847.h0EIlBku096276@jabberwock.wonderland.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:43:54 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2BBDB.5D2C9530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend of mine asked me a question about pinned on stomachers which caused me to go looking in QEWU and Waugh. Arnold states that stomachers show up as early as 1450. And then goes on to say they were pinned on over a bodice. She also says they were not listed separately in the inventories and assumes they were pinned on. I was surprised by this. I thought separate stomachers showed up later (late 1600's) and were laced in under the gown. Does that mean that the Jane Seymour dress by Holbein might have been pinned on both sides? http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg I'd like to hear from those of you who have done more research in this area than me. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2BBDB.5D2C9530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A friend of mine asked me a question about pinned on stomachers which = caused me to go looking in QEWU and Waugh.  =

 

 

Arnold states that stomachers show = up as early as 1450. And then goes on to say they were pinned on over a bodice.  She also says they were not = listed separately in the inventories and assumes they were pinned on.  I was surprised by this.  I thought separate stomachers = showed up later (late 1600's) and were laced in under the gown. 

 

Does that mean that the Jane = Seymour dress by Holbein might have been pinned on both = sides?

 

http://www.uvm.edu= /~hag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg

 

I'd like to hear from those of = you who have done more research in this area than = me.

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2BBDB.5D2C9530-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 16:54:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32428 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:54:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELjXi1017950; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:45:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELjWVI010873; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:45:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELiNVI010224 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fdb.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.219]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6094F4803D0 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:44:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004401c2bc16$32193390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Her name is Isabel Christensen. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:45:03 +0100 Status: RO The famous danish designer is Isabel Christensen. Just remembered And now i sign off. Sorry about my buisy off postings folks Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 16:55:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32440 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:55:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELu3i1019092; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELu2VI016916; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELtKVI016457 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:55:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B19D1122BE for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:43:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A6AE6114D11 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:43:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01a201c2bc15$8152fd70$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <144.7ccf7ac.2b55af7d@aol.com> <001301c2bbfe$553ec6e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_019F_01C2BBEB.983F0210" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:40:06 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_019F_01C2BBEB.983F0210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bjarne og Leif Drews=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress She did send me money today, soooooooooooooo it is ok. Bjarne. Those money is going for books, silks and wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! << Truly a man after my heart. I too think all money earned from = costuming should be spent on those items, in that order! Dianne ------=_NextPart_000_019F_01C2BBEB.983F0210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bjarne=20 og Leif Drews
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 = 1:54=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack = dress

She did send me money today, = soooooooooooooo it=20 is ok.
Bjarne.
Those money is going for books, silks = and=20 wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <<
 
Truly a man after my heart.  I = too think all=20 money earned from costuming should be spent on those items, in that=20 order!

Dianne
 
------=_NextPart_000_019F_01C2BBEB.983F0210-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 16:55:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32449 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:55:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELv1i1019196; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELv0VI017454; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ELuKVI017085 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:56:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14219 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:07:56 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. In-Reply-To: <000001c2bc16$098b6d30$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:07:56 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Arnold states that stomachers show up as early as 1450. And then goes > on to say they were pinned on over a bodice. She also says they were > not listed separately in the inventories and assumes they were pinned > on. I was surprised by this. I thought separate stomachers showed up > later (late 1600's) and were laced in under the gown. 1450 is a little early for what I would call a "stomacher" in the Elizabethan sense, but it's close to date for the placket that goes behind the lacing in the V-necked "Burgundian" robes of the last half of the 1400s. Best guess is that these were pinned in. Perhaps that's what Arnold meant? Some later 15th-century dresses have wide-gapped lacings that come down in a U shape to the belly, over a solid fabric that may have been an undergown or may have been a separate piece; this might be a better candidate for the term "stomacher," though I would not personally have thought of calling them that. (We had a thread about these dresses a couple of months ago. They tend to appear on young girls and nubile saints.) I have no idea of the period term for these 15th-century insets; in modern books, they're often called "plackets" or "pieces" (accent grave over the first e). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 17:07:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32510 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:07:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EM93i1021273; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EM91VI023971; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EM8SVI023684 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:08:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.128]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0EM84tZ007321; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:08:05 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030114141159.00c15040@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? In-Reply-To: <014c01c2bc04$224937b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114110819.00aabdd0@mail.attbi.com> <003b01c2bc01$f84780e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:11:59 -0800 Status: RO At 08:35 PM 01/14/2003 +0100, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Next year i want to order Margos Patterns and then i want to start >rennaissance................. I can't WAIT to see what you do with them, Bjarne! and Happy Birthday! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 17:28:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32702 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:28:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EMU7i1027196; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:30:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EMU5VI006451; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f136.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EMT3VI005834 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:28:58 -0800 Received: from 64.217.73.142 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:28:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.217.73.142] From: "Mary Temple" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jan 2003 22:28:58.0164 (UTC) FILETIME=[5471B740:01C2BC1C] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:28:57 +0000 Status: RO Frp, what I'm seeing in the image, they're two pieces. In particular, I'm looking slightly above the CF closure of the yellow gown. There looks to be a white garment under the "partlet", so I'd make it as two seperate pieces... Mary/Katerine >I am in the process of making this dress and camicia and am stumped as to >whether the camicia is all one piece, or if it is a partlet and camicia... >I am leaning towards partlet and camicia, but I wanted to know what you all >thought... > >http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/workdiary/images/3campi.jpg > >Thanks! > >Apollonia > >Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi >Kingdom of Atlantia >www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia > >**Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum >immane mittam.** > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 18:06:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00522 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:06:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EN86i1004129; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EN81VI026871; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0EN7MVI026499 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:07:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.17f.153f0848 (16930) for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:07:10 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <17f.153f0848.2b55f21d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_17f.153f0848.2b55f21d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:07:09 EST Status: RO --part1_17f.153f0848.2b55f21d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/14/2003 4:56:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, goofy1@suscom.net writes: > Those money is going for books, silks and wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! << > > Truly a man after my heart. I too think all money earned from costuming > should be spent on those items, in that order! > > I'd, of course, reverse the order. :-P --part1_17f.153f0848.2b55f21d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/14/2003 4:56:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, goofy1@suscom.net writes:


Those money is going for books, silks and wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <<

Truly a man after my heart.  I too think all money earned from costuming should be spent on those items, in that order!



I'd, of course, reverse the order.   :-P --part1_17f.153f0848.2b55f21d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 18:35:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00690 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:35:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ENb2i1008742; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ENb0Vd013364; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ENacVd013137 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:36:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29221115D4D for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:35:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E7668115D48 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:35:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <038b01c2bc25$35385010$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <17f.153f0848.2b55f21d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0384_01C2BBFB.49379500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:32:25 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0384_01C2BBFB.49379500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, but I'm not overly fond of wine. Now, Chambord liqueur, OTOH.... Dianne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AlbertCat@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress In a message dated 1/14/2003 4:56:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, = goofy1@suscom.net writes: Those money is going for books, silks and wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! << Truly a man after my heart. I too think all money earned from = costuming should be spent on those items, in that order! I'd, of course, reverse the order. :-P ------=_NextPart_000_0384_01C2BBFB.49379500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, but I'm not overly fond of wine. = Now, Chambord=20 liqueur, OTOH....
 
Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 AlbertCat@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 = 6:07=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack = dress

In a=20 message dated 1/14/2003 4:56:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, goofy1@suscom.net=20 writes:


Those money is going for books, silks and = wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=20 <<

Truly a man after my heart.  I too think = all money=20 earned from costuming should be spent on those items, in that=20 order!



I'd, of=20 course, reverse the order.   :-P=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0384_01C2BBFB.49379500-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 20:00:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01057 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:00:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F1236g021883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F121k1022411; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F11vk1022356 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:01:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0F1QkI3025307 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:26:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0F1QkoI025305 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:26:46 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114110819.00aabdd0@mail.attbi.com> <003b01c2bc01$f84780e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <003b01c2bc01$f84780e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301142026.45859.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0F11vk1022356 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:26:45 -0500 Status: RO On Tuesday 14 January 2003 02:20 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I have not followed this, but two necklines? I se a fold in the shirt, not > another neckline. I'm inclined to agree with you on this one, Bjarne. > This picture is very interresting. > I never thoaght that ruffs were attached to the shirt. I always thoaght it > was a seperate garment. I agree about ruffs but the thing in the picture isn't quite a ruff--more like a very aggressive ruffle. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 20:11:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01141 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:11:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F1C26g022512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F1C1k1026283; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F1BFk1025917 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:11:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0F1a4I3025383 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:36:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0F1a4xM025381 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:36:04 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skiing in skirts User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200301140242.TAA02682@lariat.org> In-Reply-To: <200301140242.TAA02682@lariat.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301142036.03718.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0F1BFk1025917 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:36:03 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 13 January 2003 02:27 pm, hillrk@lariat.org wrote: >[text cut here] > And is there any history of women skiing in skirts? I know of skirts > (quilted) used as ski wear for religious reasons, but the U.S., as far > as I can tell, has no such mainstream tradition. Europe, perhaps? > Skiing as recreation may simply postdate pants for women, but > what about skiing as transportation for chores and visits? I don't know about skiing, but I saw a bizarre photograph once of a woman in a mid-1860's crinoline mountain climbing (the slope was quite shallow, and she used what looked like two ski poles for balance).... -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 21:07:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01368 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:07:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F254tv025786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F250k1014758; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F243k1014405 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:04:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r9p32.directcon.net [206.170.184.131]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0F23uxS003525; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:03:57 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030114180752.00b1ad90@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, "h-costume" From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site In-Reply-To: <025b01c2bc07$8c81b960$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:07:52 -0800 Status: RO At 03:00 PM 01/14/2003 -0500, Penny Ladnier wrote: >A friend told me about this cool fabric site >http://www.ladybuttonfabrics.com/cgi-bin/shopping/imgsearch.cgi You can >search by topic. I was looking for Japanese prints and entered that in the >search category. Came up with some nice one. I also know they have >Medieval prints too. > Thanks so much, Penny! My son is turning seven this month, and we're decorating his room as his big present. He LOVES the medieval dragon print! Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 22:10:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01596 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:10:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F345tv029117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F342k1004132; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F33Vk1003931 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:03:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Ydpw-0007Pp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:03:28 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site-another Message-ID: <000501c2bc42$b33fc700$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2BC08.06E0EF00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002601c2bc15$88052990$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:03:36 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2BC08.06E0EF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bjarne's note reminded me of another cool fabric site that lets you add the different fabrics to a palate (you can even save it!). Mind you, most of these are quilting fabrics, but there are some cool cottons shot with metallic (fake) thread. I sat one night and added three hundred dollars of fabrics to my palate. Then I couldn't decide what to buy and just erased it all. It was very satisfying. It was kind of like turning down a piece of chocolate cake you don't need! http://www.equilter.com/ Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews >Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 2:40 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site > >At least you can be inspired by the fabrics and this is free! >i often gets inspired by fabrics to embroider!! >Remember all things in life has a price. >Those who are free, are the best!!!! > >Sorry folks. >I have taken two much of your bandwidth tonight. but it was because i was so >despared when i sat there sewing and could not catch up with you guys. >Maybe also because i had a glass of red wine tooo much. >Still i say like the danish expensive designer whom i dont remember the name >of, she has a lot of expensive shops in London, Paris, Nice and Copenhagen, >she says >IT IS NEVER TWO MUCH! YYYYYYYYYYYOUPIIIeh >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lalah T Tillinghast" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 9:20 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site > > >> Gee, thanks! Just what I need, another place to spend money I >> don't have. Thanks, Penny >> >> Lalah >> Never give up, Never surrender >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2BC08.06E0EF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bjarne's note reminded me of another cool fabric site that lets you add the = different fabrics to a palate (you can even save it!).  Mind you, most of these are = quilting fabrics, but there are some cool cottons shot with metallic (fake) = thread.

 

I sat one night and added three hundred dollars of fabrics to my = palate.  Then I couldn't decide what to = buy and just erased it all.  It was = very satisfying.  It was kind of like turning = down a piece of chocolate cake you don’t need!  

 

http://www.equilter.com/=

 

Sg

 

 

>-----Original Message-----

>From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] = On

>Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews

>Sent: Tuesday, = January 14, 2003 2:40 = PM

>To: h-costume@indra.com

>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site

>

>At least you can be inspired by the fabrics and this is = free!

>i often gets inspired by fabrics to embroider!!

>Remember all things in life has a price.

>Those who are free, are the best!!!!

>

>Sorry folks.

>I have taken two much of your bandwidth tonight. but it was because i was = so

>despared when i sat there sewing and could not catch up with you = guys.

>Maybe also because i had a glass of red wine tooo much.

>Still i say like the danish expensive designer whom i dont remember the = name

>of, she has a lot of expensive shops in = London, Paris, Nice and = Copenhagen,

>she says

>IT IS NEVER TWO MUCH! YYYYYYYYYYYOUPIIIeh

>Leif og Bjarne Drews

>www.my-drewscostumes.dk

>

>http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/=

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "Lalah T Tillinghast" = <catpurson@juno.com>

>To: <h-costume@indra.com>

>Sent: Tuesday, = January 14, 2003 9:20 = PM

>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site

>

>

>>       &nbs= p; Gee, thanks!  Just = what I need, another place to spend money I

>> don't have.  Thanks, = Penny

>>

>> Lalah

>> Never give up, Never surrender

>> _______________________________________________

>> h-costume mailing list

>> h-costume@mail.indra.com

>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

>>

>

>

>__________________________________________= _____

>h-costume mailing list

>h-costume@mail.indra.com

=

>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-c= ostume

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2BC08.06E0EF00-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 22:27:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01645 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:27:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3M2tv000286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3M0k1009910; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3LBk1009625 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m251.in-tch.com [216.166.191.251]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0F34c918282 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:04:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E24D3CE.61242F1E@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of sack dress References: <001601c2bbed$66377930$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:21:50 -0700 Status: RO Hey, Happy Birthday!! Hope you had a lovely, relaxing dinner! --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Worked like a horse today and still not finished yierk!!!! > Then i got an email from my costumer, saying she dont need the dress for the > birdsday because it is an informal occation. Her dress is two informal she > thinks for the occation. > I am very happy about this because it gives me more time to make the > finishing touches. > I hate to be in a hurry mostly because the sewing gets so > wrong...................... > sigh. > This night i am going to serv english beefstick and a bottle of red wine. It > was my birdsday yesterday, and we had pizza because i was so buisy. > My birdsday pressent from Leif was: Jack Cassin Scott "Making Historical > Costume Dolls" YYYYYYYYYIIIppie YEahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 22:29:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01651 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:29:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3O1tv000411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3O0k1010535; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3NHk1010292 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:23:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m251.in-tch.com [216.166.191.251]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0F36i918525 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:06:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E24D44C.37392B13@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] sack dress References: <144.7ccf7ac.2b55af7d@aol.com> <001301c2bbfe$553ec6e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <01a201c2bc15$8152fd70$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:23:56 -0700 Status: RO Well, there's *chocolate,* too! --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 22:31:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01663 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:31:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3Q1tv000515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3Q1k1011113; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3PFk1010870 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:25:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m251.in-tch.com [216.166.191.251]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0F38g918828 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:08:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E24D4C2.10293664@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site References: <20030114.152049.-642671.9.catpurson@juno.com> <002601c2bc15$88052990$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:25:54 -0700 Status: RO Geez, Bjarne! If a guy can't have an extra glass of wine on his birthday, when *can* he have it? ;-P --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Sorry folks. > I have taken two much of your bandwidth tonight. but it was because i was so > despared when i sat there sewing and could not catch up with you guys. > Maybe also because i had a glass of red wine tooo much. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 22:47:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01726 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:47:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3m2tv001703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3m1k1018127; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3llk1018007 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m251.in-tch.com [216.166.191.251]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0F3VE921817 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:31:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E24DA09.1A65AF8F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:48:25 -0700 Status: RO I'd say two separate items of clothing, especially since I can see a bit of something (the camicia?) just where her cleavage meets the bodice edge. Great picture, by the way! What's the date on it? --Sue, who also likes the decorated apron Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi wrote: > > I am in the process of making this dress and camicia and am stumped as to > whether the camicia is all one piece, or if it is a partlet and camicia... > I am leaning towards partlet and camicia, but I wanted to know what you all > thought... > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/workdiary/images/3campi.jpg > > Thanks! > > Apollonia > > Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi > Kingdom of Atlantia > www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia > > **Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum > immane mittam.** > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 22:54:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01749 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:54:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3t1tv002107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3t1k1020478; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F3sZk1020342 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:54:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m251.in-tch.com [216.166.191.251]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0F3bK925649 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:38:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E24DB77.C7B96593@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114110819.00aabdd0@mail.attbi.com> <003b01c2bc01$f84780e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:54:31 -0700 Status: RO Two necklines: 1. The first comes up to her neck, and has the appearance of a collar with a ruffle. I've seen a number of these in all the genre paintings of Flemish market women . 2. The second is seen/implied right where her cleavage and the bodice connect--there's a bit of white there, as if she were wearing, maybe, a square-necked smock. There are a number of these combinations in other paintings from the 16th c., so maybe that's why I'm seeing it. It's more of a ruffle, than a separate ruff. Although what I've read about the clothing of the 16th c. (combined with my bad memory that really needs a mug of tea and then bed!), leads me to remember/think that separated ruffs evolved out of sewn-in ruffles, anyways. --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > I have not followed this, but two necklines? I se a fold in the shirt, not > another neckline. > This picture is very interresting. > I never thoaght that ruffs were attached to the shirt. I always thoaght it > was a seperate garment. > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 22:59:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01762 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:59:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F411tv002423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F411k1022232; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.170]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F408k1021935 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:00:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0F402q19291 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:00:02 +1100 Message-ID: <007201c2bc4a$b6764040$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <20030114171920.42522.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:00:58 +1100 Status: RO > From what I can see on my monitor (and not having a clue about Italian > clothing) it looks like two part, there is a line down which looks like the > neck opening of the camicia, and then as if there were two collars, one being > the partlet. I agree too. One of the necklines is open when it meets the bodice by an inch or two and the other neckline curves across just above the yellow bodice. That's what I see anyway. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 23:27:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01842 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:27:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F4S2tv003808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F4S0k1000790; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F4RCk1000489 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:27:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2ivearm.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.43.118] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Yf8x-0005K5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:27:11 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030114180304.07bf7240@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lining Persian and Ottoman "Coats" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:07:29 -0500 Status: RO Anahita asked: >Second, is there a special technique for lining a garment AND putting in >facings, or vice versa? This is for the Ottomans. I've faced garments >before, but i don't recall ever fully lining anything with a bag lining, >so i've never put in both a facing and a lining in one garment. I don't know about Ottomans, but I know that in modern suits, the lining fabric is cut smaller than the garment fabric, so that if the "inside" edge of the facing is sewn to the lining, it creates that full-sized "second garment". Then this is sewn to the outer garment along the "outside" edges (usually leaving either the hem, part of the hem, or part of a lining side-seam unsewn for pulling the garment back "right-side out")... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 14 23:54:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01943 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:54:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F4u1tv005264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F4u0k1009129; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F4tdk1009023 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:55:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-007neomahp294.dialsprint.net ([63.178.237.160] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YfaT-0003Op-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:55:38 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114224611.0282bcf0@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <20030115030402.4122.18957.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Looking for stuff.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:55:28 -0600 Status: RO Hi, all! I will be working on a project for Costume Con 21 (starting as soon as we get back from Arisia), and there are two items I need for it that I've not found yet with a couple of evenings of Internet searches. I'm looking for medium grey velvet. It needs to be drapeable, so upholstery weight is not an option. I found one site (velvetfabrics.com ?) with two colors of grey, but hope to find maybe one other, so I have a choice. I don't need much, so it doesn't have to be super-cheap, but don't want to break the bank either. The other is harder - I need a parasol or parasol frame, a la My Fair Lady. IOW, not the tiny bridal parasols, but one suitable for that time period, that could have been used as a walking stick as well. Ideally, it would be a sword-parasol, but I'm 99.99% sure I won't find that. If I can get it in black, I wouldn't have to re-cover it, but a frame will do. If I can't find one, I'll have to try to modify a regular umbrella frame. For those of you with CC21 memberships, and have the Fashion Folio, I'm doing the Opening Night at the Midnight Ascots. For everyone else, think My Fair Lady crossed with vampire mythology. TIA, Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 01:53:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02138 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:53:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F6r2tv009713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F6r0k1012925; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F6qkk1012858 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:52:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-113-15.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.113.15]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOM72770; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:50:43 GMT Message-ID: <02fc01c2bc63$1a8b0da0$747c4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030114065404.00af3bc8@pop.sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: skiing in skirts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:55:34 -0000 Status: RO Have you tried this site for info ? http://www.skiinghistory.org/Home.html Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 02:02:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03076 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:02:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F731tv010029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 00:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F730k1015061; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 00:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F72Nk1014905 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 00:02:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip86.174-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.174.86]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0F72HQ16996 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:02:20 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. Message-ID: <3E249725.24901.B7BFE04@localhost> Priority: normal References: <000001c2bc16$098b6d30$6601a8c0@mycomputer> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:03:01 -0800 Status: RO > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > > Arnold states that stomachers show up as early as 1450. And then > > goes on to say they were pinned on over a bodice. She also says > > they were not listed separately in the inventories and assumes they > > were pinned on. I was surprised by this. I thought separate > > stomachers showed up later (late 1600's) and were laced in under the > > gown. How odd that they would say that. According to _The Inventories of Henry VIII_ there are both placards (which is a plain fabric which would match the dress bodice) and stomachers (which are heavily embroidered.) The placards sound like descriptions of the front of the dresses you see in Henry VIII's time such as worn by Jane Seymour which appear to be pinned. There is also another portrait, in a miniature (I think either Holbein or Terlinc, and I'm blanking on the sitter), who also has what appears to be a pinned-on front, but it's pinned on the other side. This would lead me to believe that they were pinned on both sides, but you would only see the pins on the side most easily viewed in the 3/4 view (as opposed to being able to see both sides if it were straight on.) There sure were a lot of pins from those times and I know that I've found that they work great for stomachers (such as on my 1755 sack- back dress I made many years ago for the Costume Con in Seattle.) I've worn my pinned on stomacher several times and I've never been "stuck" or had someone else be stuck by it. (Well, except when I'm trying to pin the thing on while wearing my wig already.) As to pins, they actually come very small if needed. This past weekend I bought a "legal antiquity" from the 14-15th C (said to be a veil pin) which is as fine and small as one of my usual silk pins. (Unlike the other pins in my collection, which tend to be more like corsage pins in size. That size is more like what I've used on my stomachers.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 03:14:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17147 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 03:14:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F8G3tv012230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F8G0k1002868; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13302.mail.yahoo.com (web13302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0F8Fkk1002822 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:15:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030115081545.1223.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:15:45 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for stuff.... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114224611.0282bcf0@radiks.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:15:45 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > The other is harder - I need a parasol or parasol frame, a la My Fair > Lady. IOW, not the tiny bridal parasols, but one suitable for that time > period, that could have been used as a walking stick as well. Ideally, it > would be a sword-parasol, but I'm 99.99% sure I won't find that. Your best bet, from experience, might be eBay. I found some great Victorian and later parasol frames there. Parasols that are complete are very expensive on eBay, but if a frame will do you should be able to find something cheaply. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 04:20:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08368 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 04:20:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F9M1tv014113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F9M0k1019432; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F9LVk1019331 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:21:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id BAA11917 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:44:05 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200301150944.BAA11917@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for stuff.... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:44:05 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Parasols: http://www.barringtonbrolly.com/pages/Parasols.html They make new, custom parasols. Yes, some of them are suitable for using as walking sticks. Their prices run from about US$150 to about US$400 for the ones with sterling silver handles. Reports from people who've bought there, yes it's quality work. The only weirdness was that they told a couple people they weren't interesting in catering to the "goth" crowd. We don't know why, especially since no one was trying to dicker them down on price... Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 04:27:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14384 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 04:27:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F9T1tv014318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0F9T0k1021166; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41010.mail.yahoo.com (web41010.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0F9SXk1021068 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:28:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030115092828.67499.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [158.125.1.114] by web41010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:28:28 PST From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: [h-cost] origin of words, wheelfarthingale_ fishboneskirt. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001701c2bbfb$d3bb5450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1922877443-1042622908=:67129" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:28:28 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-1922877443-1042622908=:67129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Bjarne. I am pretty certain that somebody in Denmark made a dictionary of all the danish words in the end of the 18'th beginning at the 17'th century.I just cannot remember what it is called. It is at least 20 books with all sorts of danish words. Ask your local librarian. Tania --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1922877443-1042622908=:67129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Bjarne.

I am pretty certain that somebody in Denmark made a dictionary of all the danish words in the end of the 18'th beginning at the 17'th century.I just cannot remember what it is called. It is at least 20 books with all sorts of danish words. Ask your local librarian.

Tania


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Sign up now --0-1922877443-1042622908=:67129-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 06:16:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14681 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:16:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FBDBtv017860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 04:13:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FBD4k1012267; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 04:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FBCHk1011987 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 04:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7606113A96 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:12:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 21B65113C10 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:12:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006f01c2bc86$89fddaf0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114224611.0282bcf0@radiks.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for stuff.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:09:14 -0500 Status: RO Phoenix Textiles (www.fabric.com) has dove-gray cotton velveteen that loks gorgeous. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre & Sandy Pettinger" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for stuff.... > Hi, all! > > I will be working on a project for Costume Con 21 (starting as soon as we > get back from Arisia), and there are two items I need for it that I've not > found yet with a couple of evenings of Internet searches. > I'm looking for medium grey velvet. It needs to be drapeable, so > upholstery weight is not an option. I found one site (velvetfabrics.com ?) > with two colors of grey, but hope to find maybe one other, so I have a > choice. I don't need much, so it doesn't have to be super-cheap, but don't > want to break the bank either. > The other is harder - I need a parasol or parasol frame, a la My Fair > Lady. IOW, not the tiny bridal parasols, but one suitable for that time > period, that could have been used as a walking stick as well. Ideally, it > would be a sword-parasol, but I'm 99.99% sure I won't find that. If I can > get it in black, I wouldn't have to re-cover it, but a frame will do. If I > can't find one, I'll have to try to modify a regular umbrella frame. > For those of you with CC21 memberships, and have the Fashion Folio, I'm > doing the Opening Night at the Midnight Ascots. For everyone else, think > My Fair Lady crossed with vampire mythology. > > TIA, > > Sandy > > "Those Who Fail To Learn History > Are Doomed To Repeat It; > Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- > Why They Are Simply Doomed." > > Achemdro'hm > "The Illusion of Historical Fact" > -- C.Y. 4971 > > Andromeda > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 08:07:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15136 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:07:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FD89tv021540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FD81k1009849; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imf05bis.bellsouth.net (mail205.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.145]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FD7Fk1009631 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:07:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from sarah ([216.76.153.153]) by imf05bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20030115130903.GZFU25419.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@sarah> for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:09:03 -0500 From: "Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <3E24DA09.1A65AF8F@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:06:31 -0500 Status: RO The date is 1580, the author Campi, and all of the pics can be found on the web gallery of art here... http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/c/campi/vincenzo/index.html Apollonia Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi Kingdom of Atlantia www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia **Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.** -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 10:48 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? I'd say two separate items of clothing, especially since I can see a bit of something (the camicia?) just where her cleavage meets the bodice edge. Great picture, by the way! What's the date on it? --Sue, who also likes the decorated apron Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi wrote: > > I am in the process of making this dress and camicia and am stumped as to > whether the camicia is all one piece, or if it is a partlet and camicia... > I am leaning towards partlet and camicia, but I wanted to know what you all > thought... > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/workdiary/images/3campi.jpg > > Thanks! > > Apollonia > > Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi > Kingdom of Atlantia > www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia > > **Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum > immane mittam.** > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 08:42:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15237 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:42:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FDh4tv022686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:43:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FDh0k1018570; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FDgPk1018400 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16982 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:54:04 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. In-Reply-To: <3E249725.24901.B7BFE04@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:54:04 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > Arnold states that stomachers show up as early as 1450. And then > > > goes on to say they were pinned on over a bodice. She also says > > > they were not listed separately in the inventories and assumes they > > > were pinned on. > > How odd that they would say that. According to _The Inventories of > Henry VIII_ there are both placards (which is a plain fabric which > would match the dress bodice) and stomachers (which are heavily > embroidered.) Hmm, the Henry VIII inventories were published for the mass market only very recently. I don't know what state/collection the original has been in all these years. Does Arnold mention it at all? It's possible she never saw it before writing QEWU. It would be odd, though, for stomachers not to be mentioned still in Elizabeth's accounts, so soon afterward. Or by saying they were "not listed separately," did she mean they were listed, but only as part of a dress/outfit, rather than as an independent accessory? Been a long time since I've looked at that part of the book. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 08:53:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15341 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:53:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FDs3tv023131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FDs1k1021566; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FDrck1021462 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:53:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A7E1D22D0108; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:53:37 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7E027900CE; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:53:36 -0600 Message-ID: <004f01c2bc9d$93981460$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20030114180752.00b1ad90@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:54:08 -0500 Status: RO Margo, They have some really neat fabric. I looked at the dragon section too. I was looking for Japanese dragons. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 09:17:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15409 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:17:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEJ4tv024083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEJ0k1028822; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEI1k1028522 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YoMi-0001RJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 06:18:00 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. Message-ID: <001401c2bca0$edad6bf0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:18:04 -0700 Status: RO You sum up my understanding of it pretty much. This brings up another interesting construction question. If the stomachers were generally pinned on on dresses like the later Elizabethan (where the point goes well below the waist), how were the gowns constructed? Was the bodice attached and laced up the front? Or where the skirts of the over gown also separate from the bodice? I guess the lacing question still is the same. Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Robin Netherton >Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:08 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. > > >On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > >> Arnold states that stomachers show up as early as 1450. And then goes >> on to say they were pinned on over a bodice. She also says they were >> not listed separately in the inventories and assumes they were pinned >> on. I was surprised by this. I thought separate stomachers showed up >> later (late 1600's) and were laced in under the gown. > >1450 is a little early for what I would call a "stomacher" in the >Elizabethan sense, but it's close to date for the placket that goes behind >the lacing in the V-necked "Burgundian" robes of the last half of the >1400s. Best guess is that these were pinned in. Perhaps that's what Arnold >meant? > >Some later 15th-century dresses have wide-gapped lacings that come down in >a U shape to the belly, over a solid fabric that may have been an >undergown or may have been a separate piece; this might be a better >candidate for the term "stomacher," though I would not personally have >thought of calling them that. (We had a thread about these dresses a >couple of months ago. They tend to appear on young girls and nubile >saints.) > >I have no idea of the period term for these 15th-century insets; in modern >books, they're often called "plackets" or "pieces" (accent grave over the >first e). > >--Robin > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 09:37:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15485 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:37:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEd1tv025066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEd0GW005022; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay3.softcomca.com (relay3.softcomca.com [168.144.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEcGGW004740 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:38:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from M2W046.mail2web.com ([168.144.251.152]) by relay3.softcomca.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:38:15 -0500 Message-ID: <22810-220031315143815980@M2W046.mail2web.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Originating-IP: 198.31.196.189 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ From: "sweetsheep@earthlink.net" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2003 14:38:15.0900 (UTC) FILETIME=[BD27F9C0:01C2BCA3] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0FEcGGW004740 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: sweetsheep@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:38:15 -0500 Status: RO >> You sum up my understanding of it pretty much. This brings up another interesting construction question. If the stomachers were generally pinned on on dresses like the later Elizabethan (where the point goes well below the waist), how were the gowns constructed? Was the bodice attached and laced up the front? Or where the skirts of the over gown also separate from the bodice? I guess the lacing question still is the same. Sg >> When I went and looked at the life size (and some larger) paintings from this era, it appeared to me that the stomachers were not pinned on top of the bodice like earlier versions were. The edges of the stomacher fall under the edges of the bodice - like later period gowns that use stomachers do. The gown is constructed to open in front with a deep V left completely open, to be filled in by the stomacher. I did find textual support for this, but I'm at work and my research is not.... The stomacher is pinned (or tied, or hook & eyed - all methods mentions in QEWU in reference to the stomachers which are listed in the inventories and accounts) to the edges of the gown and, from experience, this arrangement is very secure and looks like the portraits, while stomachers pinned on top of a bodice don't. The stomacher is an item that changes dramatically in shape and usage over time - it's basic function remains the same, but the way it is utilized does not. Elizabeth/Dulcia -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 09:50:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15573 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEp5tv025704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEp1GW009119; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEouGW009088 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:50:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.165] (pm5-165.eos.net [205.133.149.165]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07107 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:50:54 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030114183604.22667.49667.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: bjarne's customer Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:47:56 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne: First, HAPPY BIRTHDAY! I hope you had a good steak dinner. We will make a birthday toast to you tonight with our roast! Second, I think you are right. Your customer should not have told you she was in such a hurry for the dress if she really wasn't. She was rude to think only of herself, not of you and not of your other customers. My husband now owns a business, and unfortunately people act that way all the time! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 09:52:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15586 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:52:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEr1tv025799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEr0GW009839; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FEqFGW009514 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:52:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a239.in-tch.com [66.62.107.39]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0FEZh911695 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:35:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E2575C6.3471D4A0@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. References: <000001c2bc16$098b6d30$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <3E249725.24901.B7BFE04@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:52:54 -0700 Status: RO I used to wonder how one pinned through all those stiff layers.... And then, I saw a couple of (18th c???) stomachers that had these little tabs sticking out..... I've seen a couple of people try the stomacher-pinned-to-the-outside on their gowns, and it's always looked fairly awkward, and not at all like the ones in the paintings (this includes the one I did once). I'm wondering if that isn't because of the stiffening methods used? --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 10:15:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15710 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:15:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFE5tv026929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFE1GW017739; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0FFDFGW017462 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:13:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030115151314.26218.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:13:14 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E2575C6.3471D4A0@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:13:14 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > I used to wonder how one pinned through all those stiff layers.... > And then, I saw a couple of (18th c???) stomachers that had these little > tabs sticking out..... > I've seen a couple of people try the stomacher-pinned-to-the-outside on > their gowns, and it's always looked fairly awkward, and not at all like > the ones in the paintings (this includes the one I did once). I'm > wondering if that isn't because of the stiffening methods used? The way I pin on the stomacher for my mantua is as follows: Yes, the stomacher has inen tabs, just like all he surviving stomachers I ave seen. Thus you pin through those (horizontal) and the top layer of fabric. Don't try to pin through any boning! :-) The stomacher isn't pinned quite to the outside of the gown, because the folds go over the pns. (ack! I am at aloss for English words here!) I hope you can imagine those sides being folded back, they cover the pins and the tabs. Then I usually carefully pin the folds down at a couple of points just to make sure. The pins are mostly hidden by the fabric then. Uhm... does it make sense? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 10:43:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15880 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:43:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFh4tv029139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFh1GW000814; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21402.mail.yahoo.com (web21402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0FFgYGW000600 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:42:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030115154234.81966.qmail@web21402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.159.192] by web21402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:42:34 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Maker's Art To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200301141809.h0EI9tpQ095857@jabberwock.wonderland.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:42:34 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --- Heather Meadows wrote: > What makes this book so wonderful..? > > (just what I need, one more thing to want) Heather, what makes this book so cool and spiff to own (or at least look at from the library) is that it is full of pictures of costumers in their creations, with bios and a forward about how costuming started rolling at conventions (SF). For me, I know some of the costumers, some even know me (*lol*) and others I may not know, but I saw the performances when the costumes were presented. There are close-up shots of some detail work on a few of the pieces too so that you can see the workmanship. My co-workers laughed as I turned the pages, exclaiming at friends or drooling over newer pieces, especially as I kept saying "I wanna be that good when I grow up!" Helps to listen here, brings up my standards and knowledge. Same reason why I liked hanging out with a couple of my fannish friends in LA--I got to have input from two of the folks in the book, and they helped me learn and grow. Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 10:53:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15951 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:53:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFr2tv029964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFr1GW005470; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFpxGW004976 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:51:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Yppe-0002x0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:51:58 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. Message-ID: <000a01c2bcae$0e5bbde0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3E2575C6.3471D4A0@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:52:05 -0700 Status: RO Arnold discusses different "styles" some which were stiffened with paste bourde and others just lined with fustian or sarconett. Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Sue Clemenger >Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:53 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. > >I used to wonder how one pinned through all those stiff layers.... >And then, I saw a couple of (18th c???) stomachers that had these little >tabs sticking out..... >I've seen a couple of people try the stomacher-pinned-to-the-outside on >their gowns, and it's always looked fairly awkward, and not at all like >the ones in the paintings (this includes the one I did once). I'm >wondering if that isn't because of the stiffening methods used? >--sue >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 10:55:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15971 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:55:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFs2tv000138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFs1GW005991; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFrZGW005752 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:53:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18YprC-00056S-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:53:34 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers-attachment methods Message-ID: <000b01c2bcae$47a4cfb0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:53:42 -0700 Status: RO I should be more specific-she discusses attachment methods from other sources but not from the warrants themselves. Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] >Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 8:48 AM >To: 'h-costume@indra.com' >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. > >If you have time when you get home could you direct me to where Arnold discusses >this in more detail. The only mention of it I found was where she said the method of >attachment isn't discussed and therefore she 'assumed' they were pinned. > >I don't have access to the full sized portraits, but I would agree they don't look >pinned on the top. > >Does anyone know of a picture where it does look like they are pinned on top? >(Besides the ones already discussed where you only see one side of the pinning) > >Sg > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >>Behalf Of sweetsheep@earthlink.net >>Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:38 AM >>To: h-costume@indra.com >>Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. >> >> >> >>>> >>You sum up my understanding of it pretty much. This brings up another >>interesting construction question. If the stomachers were generally >>pinned on on dresses like the later Elizabethan (where the point goes >>well below the waist), how were the gowns constructed? Was the bodice >>attached and laced up the front? Or where the skirts of the over gown >>also separate from the bodice? I guess the lacing question still is the >>same. >> >>Sg >>>> >> >>When I went and looked at the life size (and some larger) paintings from >>this era, it appeared to me that the stomachers were not pinned on top of >>the bodice like earlier versions were. The edges of the stomacher fall >>under the edges of the bodice - like later period gowns that use stomachers >>do. The gown is constructed to open in front with a deep V left completely >>open, to be filled in by the stomacher. I did find textual support for >>this, but I'm at work and my research is not.... The stomacher is pinned >>(or tied, or hook & eyed - all methods mentions in QEWU in reference to the >>stomachers which are listed in the inventories and accounts) to the edges >>of the gown and, from experience, this arrangement is very secure and looks >>like the portraits, while stomachers pinned on top of a bodice don't. >> >> >>The stomacher is an item that changes dramatically in shape and usage over >>time - it's basic function remains the same, but the way it is utilized >>does not. >> >> >>Elizabeth/Dulcia >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>mail2web - Check your email from the web at >>http://mail2web.com/ . >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 10:58:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15981 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:58:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFn1tv029625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFn0GW003652; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FFmMGW003329 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:48:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Ypm9-0005tT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:48:21 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. Message-ID: <000901c2bcad$8cc24060$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <22810-220031315143815980@M2W046.mail2web.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:48:27 -0700 Status: RO If you have time when you get home could you direct me to where Arnold discusses this in more detail. The only mention of it I found was where she said the method of attachment isn't discussed and therefore she 'assumed' they were pinned. I don't have access to the full sized portraits, but I would agree they don't look pinned on the top. Does anyone know of a picture where it does look like they are pinned on top? (Besides the ones already discussed where you only see one side of the pinning) Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of sweetsheep@earthlink.net >Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:38 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. > > > >>> >You sum up my understanding of it pretty much. This brings up another >interesting construction question. If the stomachers were generally >pinned on on dresses like the later Elizabethan (where the point goes >well below the waist), how were the gowns constructed? Was the bodice >attached and laced up the front? Or where the skirts of the over gown >also separate from the bodice? I guess the lacing question still is the >same. > >Sg >>> > >When I went and looked at the life size (and some larger) paintings from >this era, it appeared to me that the stomachers were not pinned on top of >the bodice like earlier versions were. The edges of the stomacher fall >under the edges of the bodice - like later period gowns that use stomachers >do. The gown is constructed to open in front with a deep V left completely >open, to be filled in by the stomacher. I did find textual support for >this, but I'm at work and my research is not.... The stomacher is pinned >(or tied, or hook & eyed - all methods mentions in QEWU in reference to the >stomachers which are listed in the inventories and accounts) to the edges >of the gown and, from experience, this arrangement is very secure and looks >like the portraits, while stomachers pinned on top of a bodice don't. > > >The stomacher is an item that changes dramatically in shape and usage over >time - it's basic function remains the same, but the way it is utilized >does not. > > >Elizabeth/Dulcia > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ . > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 11:24:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16125 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:24:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FGN6tv002742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:23:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FGN1GW021942; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FGMJGW021550 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip95.125-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.125.95]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0FGMGo17746 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:22:17 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. Message-ID: <3E251A5E.9355.D7CA6B8@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3E249725.24901.B7BFE04@localhost> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:22:54 -0800 Status: RO > > How odd that they would say that. According to _The Inventories of > > Henry VIII_ there are both placards (which is a plain fabric which > > would match the dress bodice) and stomachers (which are heavily > > embroidered.) > > Hmm, the Henry VIII inventories were published for the mass market > only very recently. I don't know what state/collection the original > has been in all these years. Does Arnold mention it at all? It's > possible she never saw it before writing QEWU. I suspect she hadn't seen them prior to writing QEWU since it was written well before the "Inventory" project was started. She was scheduled to be the one in charge of writing the section for one of the later volumes (on clothing and textiles, of course). However, the project was cancelled (or at least put on hold) because of finances. It would be odd, > though, for stomachers not to be mentioned still in Elizabeth's > accounts, so soon afterward. Or by saying they were "not listed > separately," did she mean they were listed, but only as part of a > dress/outfit, rather than as an independent accessory? Been a long > time since I've looked at that part of the book. Same here. (However, I spend *lots* of time with the H8 Inventories.) Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 13:13:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16686 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:13:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FIEAtv013203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:14:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FIE05O028505; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from randall.mail.atl.earthlink.net (randall.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FIDS5O028217 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smui07.slb.mindspring.net ([199.174.114.17]) by randall.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Ys2Z-0004ot-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:13:27 -0500 Received: by smui07.slb.mindspring.net id NAA0000030599; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:11:02 -0500 (EST) From: To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: 64.167.230.74 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: claning@igc.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:11:02 -0500 Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:54:04 -0600 (CST) Robin Netherton wrote: > Hmm, the Henry VIII inventories were published > for the mass market only > very recently. 1995, I think. Boydell & Brewer currently owns the option to publish the projected Volumes 2 and 3 (articles & photos; vol.1 is the written inventories). >I don't know what > state/collection the original has been in > all these years. Does Arnold mention it at all? > It's possible she never > saw it before writing QEWU. I know she did see it at one point, since she was supposed to write an article for the Volume 2 or 3 that we've all been waiting for... I asked B&B about it at Kalamazoo last year and they said (with rolling-the-eyes patience) that they would be happy to publish these, just as soon as the author lets them have the manuscripts..... ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 13:52:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17041 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:52:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FIr5tv017052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:53:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FIr15O021506; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FIqN5O021116 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:52:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.24.349d74ca (24895) for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:52:14 -0500 (EST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Message-ID: <24.349d74ca.2b5707de@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bjarne's customer To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 40 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:52:14 EST Status: RO Belated Happy Birthday Bjarne---and I think that tonight we shall have steak aux poivre and toast your health in a good red wine, as well!! Many Happy Returns !!! Albra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 14:02:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17124 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:02:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FJ35tv018235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FJ315O027476; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0FJ165O026026 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtTutOBnQXoo85JgSCSVupoLx9R1gMQOCQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNLAHL6F; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:00:55 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site-another Message-ID: <20030115.135740.-619687.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:57:40 -0500 Status: RO How cruel you are!. I love Laurel Burch cats and they have TONS of them! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 15:29:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17683 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:29:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FKU9tv003743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FKU15O024813; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0FKTr5O024601 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:29:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWtTutOBnQXoo6hNC9iWXgpkzbQ1EjVb4Hg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNLFJS8P; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:28:57 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lining Persian and Ottoman "Coats" Message-ID: <20030115.152544.-619687.7.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,16-17,23-25 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:25:43 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne, I am afraid I have not done a lot of traveling. I did manage to get to Rome, Naples (didn't care for Naples), Venice and Zurich about ten years ago, but that, along with some Caribbean cruises is about the extent of it. I had hoped to go to Scotland with a friend, but she suddenly came down with a brain cancer and died within weeks several years ago. As to your sexual orientation, I don't see that as much of any one's business but yours. I worked at Epcot (Walt Disney World) for four years and some of my best buddies were gay. One guy that I went through training with said that neither of us was ever going to get to be a supervisor because he was gay and I was gray. I always liked the way he put that. I am about as straight as they come myself, but don't much think that is anyone's business either. I prefer to have friends who are bright and talented and fun to be with rather than pick them by their color or religion or sexual preferences. OK, enough of that particular soap box. I am so much in such awe of your beautiful work that I would love to be able to travel just to see it in person. I am 68 and have been sewing all my life (well since I was about five anyhow) and much as I love it and as much as I have done, I have never created anything like the fantastic garments that you produce. You are such an inspiration. Thank YOU! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 15:40:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17745 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:40:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FKf3tv005162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FKf15O001215; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe72.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FKex5O001142 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:40:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:40:53 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114110819.00aabdd0@mail.attbi.com> <003b01c2bc01$f84780e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3.0.6.32.20030114141159.00c15040@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2003 20:40:53.0973 (UTC) FILETIME=[65FA7050:01C2BCD6] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:44:01 -0500 Status: RO I don't know, I want to see what Bjarne can do with them, but at the same time I don't want to see... because what he does will always be SO BEAUTIFUL I won't have the heart to try for myself after seeing his work :-) Bjarne, you're an inspiration... From: "Margo Anderson" > At 08:35 PM 01/14/2003 +0100, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > >Next year i want to order Margos Patterns and then i want to start > >rennaissance................. > > I can't WAIT to see what you do with them, Bjarne! and Happy Birthday! > > Margo > "One Tough Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 15:45:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17802 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:45:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FKk1tv005877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FKk05O004066; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FKjJ5O003704 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0FKjI111637 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:45:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030115113748.00bb55e8@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for stuff.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114224611.0282bcf0@radiks.net> References: <20030115030402.4122.18957.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_15209109==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:45:32 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_15209109==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:55 PM 1/14/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, all! > >I will be working on a project for Costume Con 21 (starting as soon as we >get back from Arisia), and there are two items I need for it that I've not >found yet with a couple of evenings of Internet searches. > >The other is harder - I need a parasol or parasol frame, a la My Fair >Lady. IOW, not the tiny bridal parasols, but one suitable for that time >period, that could have been used as a walking stick as well. Ideally, it >would be a sword-parasol, but I'm 99.99% sure I won't find that. If I can >get it in black, I wouldn't have to re-cover it, but a frame will do. If >I can't find one, I'll have to try to modify a regular umbrella frame. Finding a sturdy parasol frame longer then 35" is getting harder and harder and I watch the ebay parasol auctions like a hawk >; ) These might be too flimsy http://home.earthlink.net/~gchristen/Parasols.html. I've been looking at them and wondering if anyone on this list has dealt with the merchant. I was loathe to use my antiques for everyday use so for my "Goth" umbrella, I picked up a black battenburg inexpensively off Ebay. The plan is to cut off the handle at a mid-section and then turn a new, longer handle on a lathe and add some silver work to the cap section and handle. The parasol and handle would be rejoined using counter sunk threaded findings. Many of the old parasols used this method. If that is too time consuming, you can still chop the handle off a cheaper parasol and shop for a nice vintage handle that will be long enough. >For those of you with CC21 memberships, and have the Fashion Folio, I'm >doing the Opening Night at the Midnight Ascots. For everyone else, think >My Fair Lady crossed with vampire mythology. Sounds like my valentine's day dress project. >TIA, > >Sandy > >"Those Who Fail To Learn History >Are Doomed To Repeat It; >Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- >Why They Are Simply Doomed." > >Achemdro'hm >"The Illusion of Historical Fact" >-- C.Y. 4971 > >Andromeda Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_15209109==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 10:55 PM 1/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Hi, all!

I will be working on a project for Costume Con 21 (starting as soon as we get back from Arisia), and there are two items I need for it that I've not found yet with a couple of evenings of Internet searches.

The other is harder - I need a parasol or parasol frame, a la My Fair Lady.  IOW, not the tiny bridal parasols, but one suitable for that time period, that could have been used as a walking stick as well.  Ideally, it would be a sword-parasol, but I'm 99.99% sure I won't find that.  If I can get it in black, I wouldn't have to re-cover it, but a frame will do.  If I can't find one, I'll have to try to modify a regular umbrella frame.

Finding a sturdy parasol frame longer then 35" is getting harder and harder and I watch the ebay parasol auctions like a hawk >; )

These might be too flimsy http://home.earthlink.net/~gchristen/Parasols.html. I've been looking at them and wondering if anyone on this list has dealt with the merchant.

I was loathe to use my antiques for everyday use so for my "Goth" umbrella, I picked up a black battenburg inexpensively off Ebay. The plan is to cut off the handle at a mid-section and then turn a new, longer handle on a lathe and add some silver work to the cap section and handle. The parasol and handle would be rejoined using counter sunk threaded findings. Many of the old parasols used this method.

If that is too time consuming, you can still chop the handle off a cheaper parasol and shop for a nice vintage handle that will be long enough.


For those of you with CC21 memberships, and have the Fashion Folio, I'm doing the Opening Night at the Midnight Ascots.  For everyone else, think My Fair Lady crossed with vampire mythology.

Sounds like my valentine's day dress project.

TIA,

Sandy

"Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly--
Why They Are Simply Doomed."

Achemdro'hm
"The Illusion of Historical Fact"
-- C.Y. 4971

Andromeda

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis --=====================_15209109==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 16:24:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18112 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:24:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLP5tv009610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:25:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLP15O025929; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLOS5O025576 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:24:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h0FLOR920785 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.32.99.2] (extra29.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.99.2]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h0FLOQm20751 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:24:27 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030115092828.67499.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030115092828.67499.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] origin of words, wheelfarthingale_ fishboneskirt. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:10:55 -0800 Status: RO At 1:28 AM -0800 1/15/03, Tania Gruning wrote: >Hi Bjarne. > >I am pretty certain that somebody in Denmark made a dictionary of >all the danish words in the end of the 18'th beginning at the 17'th >century.I just cannot remember what it is called. It is at least 20 >books with all sorts of danish words. Ask your local librarian. Well, there's: Kalkar, Otto. 1881. Ordbog til det AEldre Danske Sprog (1300-1700) 5v.. Thieles Bogtrykkeri, Kobenhavn. Only five volumes, not 20, but otherwise it sounds exactly like your description. I own the set, so I could look things up, if desired. (Hey, don't ask me what I'm doing with a five volume dictionary of Old Danish ... it was there in the bookstore, so I bought it. Wouldnt' you? The startling thing is that I've actually used it half a dozen times ... well, ok, given my hobbies, maybe not quite _that_ startling.) Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 16:35:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18196 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:35:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLQ1tv009698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLQ15O026501; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLPO5O026104 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:25:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030115212519.IATZ7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:25:19 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out002.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:25:19 -0600 Message-Id: <20030115212519.IATZ7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:25:19 -0500 Status: RO > > From: "Kate M Bunting" > Date: 2003/01/14 Tue AM 10:19:14 EST > To: > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations > > Yes, Richard Scollins is a British dialect expert; he co-wrote a book called "Ey up, mi duck" about the East Midlands dialect. I can't trace "O for a muse of foyre" in my sources here, but guess from the title that it was an attempt to reproduce the original pronunciation of Shakespeare's plays. > > > As I recall it was created for the English Civil War re-enactment crowd, though I may recall wrong it has been years since I heard it. I do know that it uses "The Muse of Fire" speech as an example, but it also uses the 23rd Psalm. Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 16:42:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18246 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:42:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLi2tv011204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLi05O007040; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLhl5O006879 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:43:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp213.directcon.net [206.170.184.213]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0FLhHxS028331; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:43:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030115134709.00ea68f0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for stuff.... In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030115113748.00bb55e8@blue.ucdavis.edu> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114224611.0282bcf0@radiks.net> <20030115030402.4122.18957.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:47:09 -0800 Status: RO > > If that is too time consuming, you can still chop the handle off a cheaper >parasol and shop for a nice vintage handle that will be long enough. > >The props person on a production of Charley's aunt that I worked on made soem nice parosol handles out of brass curtain rods, the kind with fancy finials on the ends. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 16:43:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18255 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:43:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLj1tv011309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLj15O007698; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FLiL5O007218 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:44:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030115214415.IEIL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:44:15 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out002.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:44:15 -0600 Message-Id: <20030115214415.IEIL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:44:15 -0500 Status: RO > > From: leigh tartaglio > Date: 2003/01/12 Sun AM 12:30:42 EST > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authentic pronunciations > > Hi. If the tape was done by Stuart Peachey and his folks, Terry and Raff (Sykes) may be able to acquire it for you, as they are the main importer to the US of Stuart's material. If it was produced specifically for PP, though, you'd have to try their online giftshop. Good Luck, Mike T. PS Another good knowlegeable resource is Dr, Jeff Forgang (used to be Singman), a curator at the Higgins Armor Museum in Worcester, Mass. MJT > > > Sykes does have the tape. It can be found at http://sykesutler.home.att.net/stuart.htm Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 17:04:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18392 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:04:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FM53tv013047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FM51km019890; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FM4wkm019859 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:04:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Yveb-0005Ct-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:04:58 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cool Fabric Site-another Message-ID: <000901c2bce2$2a6a8550$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030115.135740.-619687.2.catpurson@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:05:06 -0700 Status: RO > How cruel you are!. I love Laurel Burch cats and they have TONS >of them! That's me! Fabric Cruel and LB cat lover!! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 17:17:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18497 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:17:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FMJ1tv014284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FMJ0km028965; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FMILkm028577 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:18:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17761 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2003 22:18:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.193.51]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 15 Jan 2003 22:18:20 -0000 Message-ID: <007001c2bce4$1c0d6340$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] important old master paintings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:19:02 -0500 Status: RO There is a VERY large auction up online at Sotheby's, with paintings that date back to the 1400s. I haven't made it past the first 5 pages. I have, of course, been admiring the ones that have people - like the BACK of a lady playing an instrument! There are some famous ones in there, and I have been finding it fascinating. Especially since they are nice enough to not only let you clickon the thumbnail to see a larger one, they let you click on enlarge so you can see a really nice size! Rowena Sotheby's Auctions » Calendar » important old master paintings including european works of art http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/event/EventDetail.jsp?event_id=25936 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 17:51:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18928 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:51:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FMr2tv017001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FMr0km018558; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FMqWkm018216 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:52:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <2003011522522705300lgc2qe>; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:52:27 +0000 Message-ID: <00a101c2bce9$60b40e90$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <007001c2bce4$1c0d6340$01fea8c0@vaio> Subject: Re: [h-cost] important old master paintings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:52:54 -0600 Status: RO Lot# 32: *SIR PETER PAUL RUBENS (1577-1640), A FISHERMAN IN A FRISIAN HAT AND A PEASANT WOMAN EMBRACING I swear you can see a draw string on that neckline, and a seam on the back side. These are great pictures! Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rowena" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 4:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] important old master paintings > There is a VERY large auction up online at Sotheby's, with paintings that > date back to the 1400s. I haven't made it past the first 5 pages. I > have, of course, been admiring the ones that have people - like the BACK of > a lady playing an instrument! There are some famous ones in there, and I > have been finding it fascinating. Especially since they are nice enough > to not only let you clickon the thumbnail to see a larger one, they let you > click on enlarge so you can see a really nice size! > Rowena > > Sotheby's Auctions » Calendar » > > important old master paintings including european works of art > > http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/event/EventDetail.jsp?event_id=25936 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 18:35:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19255 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:35:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNa3tv020597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNa1km012023; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNZjkm011905 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:35:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNdFmm024210 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:39:15 -0800 Message-ID: <3E25F076.4030007@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] important old master paintings References: <007001c2bce4$1c0d6340$01fea8c0@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:36:22 -0800 Status: RO To Rowena- Thanks for the heads up on this incredible treasure trove. Some of the portraits have been duly transfered to my archives!!! If you had a choice (and a few bucks), which one would _you_ go for? I'd pick this one: http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?sale_number=N07871&live_lot_id=133&go.x=11&go.y=12 (If the link doesn't work, it's lot #133). Thanks for the tour through the Old Masters, Theresa Eacker Rowena wrote: > There is a VERY large auction up online at Sotheby's, with paintings that > date back to the 1400s. I haven't made it past the first 5 pages. I > have, of course, been admiring the ones that have people - like the BACK of > a lady playing an instrument! There are some famous ones in there, and I > have been finding it fascinating. Especially since they are nice enough > to not only let you clickon the thumbnail to see a larger one, they let you > click on enlarge so you can see a really nice size! > Rowena > > Sotheby's Auctions » Calendar » > > important old master paintings including european works of art > > http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/event/EventDetail.jsp?event_id=25936 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 18:40:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19273 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNc1tv020755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNc0km013053; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe38.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.95]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNbskm012948 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:37:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:37:48 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2003 23:37:48.0730 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CDDD1A0:01C2BCEF] Subject: [h-cost] Fabric identification... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:40:57 -0500 Status: RO Hi, There is never anything interesting at my local fabric store, usually, but as I was walking around getting acquainted with their new disposition of fabrics, I spotted a roll on the discount shelves that screamed *linen*... 2,50$ CDN a meter. (That would be around 1.60 USD for a little more than a yard). Labeled "unknown fibers". It's bright pink, that almost fuchsia Barbie-pink annoying color but, if it's really linen, it can be dyed. I walked home with a swatch. Burn tested it. Steady flame, embers slow to extinguish, natural fiber smell, but most interesting of all, powdery blackish ash... Could it be something other than linen? It acts like linen, it feels like linen, it's woven like linen, it burns like linen... Something else I should try? Or should I be happy with that and rush to buy the roll next thing tomorrow morning? :-) I have to say, all of this is your fault, you wonderful folks on this list... You taught me about discount shelves, burn testing, and dyeing... among other things :-) I'm so happy to be here... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 18:58:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19337 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:58:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNo2tv021885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNo0km019761; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net (scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0FNnRkm019502 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:49:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net ([10.116.0.124]) by scanmail4.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:48:04 -0700 Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124] by scanmail4.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A334896700A6; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:48:04 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:48:03 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric identification... Message-ID: <000001c2bcf0$6e4e3fb0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:47:13 -0600 Status: RO Audrey, does it wrinkle like linen? Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 5:41 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Fabric identification... Hi, There is never anything interesting at my local fabric store, usually, but as I was walking around getting acquainted with their new disposition of fabrics, I spotted a roll on the discount shelves that screamed *linen*... 2,50$ CDN a meter. (That would be around 1.60 USD for a little more than a yard). Labeled "unknown fibers". It's bright pink, that almost fuchsia Barbie-pink annoying color but, if it's really linen, it can be dyed. I walked home with a swatch. Burn tested it. Steady flame, embers slow to extinguish, natural fiber smell, but most interesting of all, powdery blackish ash... Could it be something other than linen? It acts like linen, it feels like linen, it's woven like linen, it burns like linen... Something else I should try? Or should I be happy with that and rush to buy the roll next thing tomorrow morning? :-) I have to say, all of this is your fault, you wonderful folks on this list... You taught me about discount shelves, burn testing, and dyeing... among other things :-) I'm so happy to be here... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 19:05:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19374 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:05:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G064tv023260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G060GT028102; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe33.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G05ZGT027906 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:05:30 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <000001c2bcf0$6e4e3fb0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric identification... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2003 00:05:30.0415 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB4ED3F0:01C2BCF2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:08:21 -0500 Status: RO Yep. I'm curious - if it didn't, what could it be? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Baird" > Audrey, does it wrinkle like linen? > > Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 20:34:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19807 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:33:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G1Z8tv028958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:35:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G1Z1GT004380; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from regulus2.blazenet.net (regulus2.blazenet.net [24.104.0.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G1Y2GT004043 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from homesewer (ip135.59.blca.blazenet.net [24.104.59.135]) by regulus2.blazenet.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0G1WNW03033 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:32:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c2bcff$46e9b940$873b6818@blazenet.net> From: "linda sterner" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2BCD5.5C8A0400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] re:looking for stuff Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:33:28 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2BCD5.5C8A0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gwyn, You asked about gchristen/Parasols.html....She is a wonderful person!!! Linda Sterner ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2BCD5.5C8A0400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gwyn,
 
You asked about gchristen/Parasols.html....She is a = wonderful=20 person!!!
 
Linda Sterner
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2BCD5.5C8A0400-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 20:56:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19960 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:56:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G1w1tv000445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G1w0GT011602; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G1vJGT011420 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:57:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h0G1vI9490040 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:57:18 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric identification... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:57:18 -0600 (CST) Status: RO What store is it? I got a couple yards of a heavy weight barbie-pink linen at Hancocks not long ago. Mine was labled, and I haven't had any reason to believe it was mis-marked. I haven't had too much luck bleaching it, but I haven't really tried, either. I'm intending to use it for flatlining, so the color doesn't matter much, as long as it isn't going to bleed. > There is never anything interesting at my local fabric store, usually, but > as I was walking around getting acquainted with their new disposition of > fabrics, I spotted a roll on the discount shelves that screamed *linen*... > 2,50$ CDN a meter. (That would be around 1.60 USD for a little more than a > yard). Labeled "unknown fibers". It's bright pink, that almost fuchsia > Barbie-pink annoying color but, if it's really linen, it can be dyed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 20:59:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19964 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:59:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G211tv000597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G210GT012578; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from apollo.gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G20hGT012485 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from gti.net (morr0639.gti.net [208.216.122.39]) by apollo.gti.net (mail) with ESMTP id 772E5354AA for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:00:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E26124A.7462B8A2@gti.net> From: martyr@gti.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] important old master paintings References: <007001c2bce4$1c0d6340$01fea8c0@vaio> <3E25F076.4030007@misc.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5D3C0C1D7250412F9A9F5F36" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:00:42 -0500 Status: RO --------------5D3C0C1D7250412F9A9F5F36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Theresa-- Well I have decided on at least one so far; Lot #12. "A WOMAN MAKING LACE WITH A SMALL CHILD BESIDE HER" by Quiringh Gerritsz Van Brekelenkam.. http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=3XXQV Just wondering, who is the target market for paintings of this caliber/price ($80-100k)? Will private collectors still shell out that kind of scratch for art in this sketchy economy? I mean, I guess if I had the dough, there is absolutely no question I would buy Lot #12, SO I guess I just answered my own question. Just rambling, sorry... Lisa-Deb R. > If you had a choice (and a few bucks), which one would _you_ go for? > I'd pick this one: > http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?sale_number=N07871&live_lot_id=133&go.x=11&go.y=12 --------------5D3C0C1D7250412F9A9F5F36 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Theresa--
Well I have decided on at least one so far; Lot #12.
"A WOMAN MAKING LACE WITH
A SMALL CHILD BESIDE HER" by Quiringh Gerritsz
Van Brekelenkam..
http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=3XXQV

Just wondering, who is the target market for paintings of this
caliber/price ($80-100k)? Will private collectors still shell out
that kind of scratch for art in this sketchy economy?
I mean, I guess if I had the dough, there is absolutely no question
I would buy Lot #12, SO I guess I just answered my own question.
Just rambling, sorry...
Lisa-Deb R.

If you had a choice (and a few bucks), which one would _you_ go for?
I'd pick this one:
http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?sale_number=N07871&live_lot_id=133&go.x=11&go.y=12
--------------5D3C0C1D7250412F9A9F5F36-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 22:32:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20268 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:32:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G3Y2tv005679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G3Y0GT012889; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G3XVGT012742 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil3206.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.138.206]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G3XTDQ013860 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:33:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3E2628AA.79B8940C@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 1400s Italian shirt questions/protection References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:36:11 -0500 Status: RO Hi, All. Robin has gotten my point on this (not to be punny), that I did not intend to discuss the relative merits of a shirt as protection on this list. A shirt is, in fact, a shirt and is not intended as practical combat outerwear any more than the obvious protection it provides against the odd brushburn, etc. I was reacting to the obvious concern another listmember espoused, concerned that the shirt was in some way being suggested as either the only, or in the least the primary source of protection against weapons both practice and other. Robin, I apologise that my sources were not specifically Italian. It is my not-so-terribly studied belief that there was not a predominantly Italian cut to shirts at this time, as opposed to, say, German, Flemish or English, although study could indeed prove me incorrect. In fact, I welcome any knowledge that might come out of this line of inquiry. Cheers, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 23:39:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20495 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:39:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4b4tv008954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4b1GT002789; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h02GcrZW020329 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA24904 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:38:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000401c2b27e$2c860800$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <200301021555.h02FtLVt076713@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] interlibrary loan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:44:09 -0600 Status: RO Heather: Contact your local library to borrow out-of-print books on Worth through interlibrary loan. Diane De Marly authored a book on Worth about 1980. The book(which I own): The Opulent Era has a large section on the House of Worth, also. Lots of color pics(Yummers!)Your reference dept at your local library can also do a search on OCLC or FirstSearch on Worth. Good luck. Cindy Abel, ILL Coordinator Creighton Univ Health Sciences Library brujne@creighton.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:55 AM Subject: [h-cost] interlibrary loan > > > Does anyone (Kendra?) know where a good starter guide to using > interlibrary loan is online? I'd really like to try to find copies > of some of the out of print books on Worth, since I'm going to be > creating an 1880s dress in his style for class this year. > > .heather. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 23:40:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20525 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:40:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4e6tv009115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:40:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4e5GT003759; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.218]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03N1SCJ029514 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:01:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-002-181.jps.net ([216.119.2.181] helo=pavilion) by bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Uaof-0004nX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:01:26 -0800 Message-ID: <000101c2b37d$08b10ce0$b50277d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2B339.C772EA20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Trace: 9c05c41117f01b301aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec797e44097be7df47a24bd4411754b30ab9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Subject: [h-cost] recreating other cultures Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:07:05 -0800 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2B339.C772EA20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I once belonged to a very confident and pedantic group of experienced = re-enactors, mostly people who worked in museums and for a very short = while I too had a great deal of confidence in the fact that I was doing = things right. Sophomoric is the word that readily comes to mind. But = what changed things was hosting a Thanksgiving Dinner in Australia for = my co-workers. Being American, I had the history, the trappings, the = right food, decorations and even a video of the Thanksgiving day parade = and whatever bowl game followed. The problem of course was as much as = they tried, my Australian friends just didn't have the background to say = the right things, at the right time or know the layers of meaning behind = the rituals, plus, no one there liked pumpkin pie. It was a great = party, but it wasn't Thanksgiving. I pretty much have the feeling when = I do reenactment now that I am the Australian trying to behave the right = way at Thanksgiving, without knowing quite what I am supposed to do. The point is though, I have a great deal of fun researching and = experimenting and the fact that the tidbits of info have to be searched = for is what makes it all the more fun. =20 Lisa Sinervo Threadneedle St. Clothiers www.ThreadneedleSt.com ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2B339.C772EA20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I once belonged to a very confident and = pedantic=20 group of experienced re-enactors, mostly people who worked in museums = and for a=20 very short while I too had a great deal of confidence in the fact that I = was=20 doing things right.  Sophomoric is the word that readily comes to=20 mind.  But what changed things was hosting a Thanksgiving Dinner in = Australia for my co-workers.  Being American, I had the history, = the=20 trappings, the right food, decorations and even a video = of the=20 Thanksgiving day parade and whatever bowl game followed. The problem of = course=20 was as much as they tried, my Australian friends just didn't have the = background=20 to say the right things, at the right time or know the layers of meaning = behind=20 the rituals, plus, no one there liked pumpkin pie.  It was a = great=20 party, but it wasn't Thanksgiving.  I pretty much have the feeling = when I=20 do reenactment now that I am the Australian trying to behave the right = way at=20 Thanksgiving, without knowing quite what I am supposed to = do.
 
The point is though, I have a great = deal of fun=20 researching and experimenting and the fact that the tidbits of info = have to=20 be searched for is what makes it all the = more fun.  
 
 
Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. = Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com<= /DIV> ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2B339.C772EA20-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 23:41:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20536 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:41:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4eAtv009132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4eAGT003798; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:40:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe60.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.20.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0460eCJ029483 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:00:35 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2003 06:00:35.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[98F136C0:01C2B3B6] Subject: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:00:23 -0500 Status: RO Hi all! My parents are planning on buying me a sewing machine for Christmas. We didn't have time to shop before, so it will be a late present, but we saw a couple of machines today and I'm a little lost. We saw the Pfaff machines but they were bought out by Husqvarna and we're afraid we might have trouble getting it repaired? Anyway, we were looking at the Select 1540 (mechanical) and the Expression 2034 (electronic). Are any of you familiar with those machines? Those electronic ones look very nice, but since I'm probably going to keep it for a very long time, I want to be certain I'm choosing the right thing. We also saw the Viking machines, they look niftier and they're less expensive for very similar functionalities. I'm not sure which model we were looking at, but comparing with the Husqvarna website it might have been the Rose model. Or maybe it was Lily. Viking machines seem to all be electronic now. I'm pretty certain you're all going to say it's a good choice, but aside from that, any other comments? So, any advice? Should I drive all the way across town (40 km) to take a look at the Bernina machines? Should I try to find a Singer retailer to investigate them too? What about the White machines? Do you think I should avoid Pfaff because of the change of company ownership? Help? :-) And thanks a lot... Audrey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 23:43:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20547 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:43:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4e1tv009103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4e0GT003722; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h03MXoCJ017134 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:33:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from brujne (Cindy-Abel.creighton.edu [147.134.201.85]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA25134 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:33:49 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000601c2b378$e67a0900$55c98693@creighton.edu> From: "Cynthia Abel" To: References: <20030103165423.W58253-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:38:55 -0600 Status: RO And you have the same thing with linen. Do you want to grow the flax from seed, harvest it, and then go through all the processing just to get it to thread that then has to be woven, bleached/dyed, etc, before you can even start making a garment from it? From seed to finished garment could and did take two years or more. Our medieval ancestors would probably think we were crazy when you can now go to a store and buy clothing right off the rack, to want to make garments the way they did. They would probably consider washers and dryers and dry cleaners as something of a miracle. Clothing was made to last because it had to; the making of it was too labor intensive and it also had to be made to allow alterrations, ie women's gowns were often sewn with what we would consider large stitches in the skirt seams to make remodelling easier. I caught a bit of a show on the Food Network the other night where an elderly lady recalled her mother had thought she had died and gone to heaven when store-bought bread became available in her small town, for example. Cindy Abel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Authenticity-questions to ponder > > I think part of this problem comes from the fact that we now lack the > resources that medieval clothworkers and tailors took for granted--finding > yarn or cloth made from sheepwool similar to that of the time, carded, > spun and fulled in a medieval or renaissance manner, is pretty much flat > out impossible (unless you have friends as nuts about their areas of > expertise as we are. :) If you were serious about getting the absolute > most supercalifrailistic authentic article possible, you probably would > have to do the work from the sheep out, or hunt down someone with the > required expertise to do it for you in the correct way. > > Drea > > > On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > > Something that Apollonia just wrote brought up an issue that I have long > > been pondering. She mentioned that everyone can be more authentic than > > they are, but she didn't want to shear her own sheep. And while I > > certainly understand the sentiment, it shows a fundamental assumption > > that I suspect may be American in origin. The idea that people in the > > Middle Ages did everything to supply themselves. That it would be MORE > > authentic to the time to raise and shear one's own sheep, weave and dye > > the wool, and then cut and sew the garment yourself. If I am not > > mistaken, for most of the Middle Ages, various aspects of cloth > > production were pretty well specialized and compartmentalized with dyers > > guilds, weavers guilds, mercers guilds, and tailors guilds all making > > sure that no one infringed on their little piece of the moneymaking cloth > > production business. So therefore it wouldn't actually be more authentic > > to shear your own sheep and etc, because very few people in the Middle > > Ages would have been involved with the ENTIRE cloth/clothing production > > cycle. Their involvement would have been in one specialized area- and > > sometimes that area would have been simply purchasing it from the local > > mercer. Could this assumption be a leftover from the semi-mythical > > American frontier where supposedly (and I'm not even sure of this one) > > each frontier family had to make all the necessary items for their own > > survival without aid of merchants or traders? > > > > > > Just joining in on the pondering, > > > > Karen > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > Visit www.juno.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 15 23:47:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20564 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4n2tv009599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4n1GT006517; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G4m1GT006188 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0G4ltH07639 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:47:55 +1100 Message-ID: <026001c2bd1a$92fe3d90$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:48:54 +1100 Status: RO > Anyway, we were looking at the Select 1540 (mechanical) and the Expression > 2034 (electronic). Are any of you familiar with those machines? Those > electronic ones look very nice, but since I'm probably going to keep it for > a very long time, I want to be certain I'm choosing the right thing. My first advice (and I seem to be giving this a lot lately) is that if you want to do heavy duty work, such as costuming with furnishing fabrics, french or flat-felled seams (so twice as much sewing), get a mechanical machine. Possibly even a second hand/reconditioned one is better than a new "plastic" one. The newer ones will all the great functions don't last as long between services, they have more things to go wrong with them, and they don't handle sewing through multiple/thick layers. That's my advice, but then it depends what you want. I still eventually want to get a "plastic" machine to do all the fancy embroidery etc. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 00:26:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20679 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:26:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G5S2tv011532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G5S0GT017331; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe53.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G5ROGT017120 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:27:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:27:19 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric identification... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2003 05:27:19.0778 (UTC) FILETIME=[F095CC20:01C2BD1F] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:27:13 -0500 Status: RO Uhm... Fabricville... in Montreal... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emma Elizabeth Lehman" <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric identification... > > What store is it? I got a couple yards of a heavy weight barbie-pink > linen at Hancocks not long ago. Mine was labled, and I haven't had any > reason to believe it was mis-marked. I haven't had too much luck > bleaching it, but I haven't really tried, either. I'm intending to use it > for flatlining, so the color doesn't matter much, as long as it isn't > going to bleed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 00:28:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20684 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:28:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G5U4tv011637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G5U1GT017940; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe44.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G5TZGT017794 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:29:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:29:30 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2003 05:29:30.0586 (UTC) FILETIME=[3E8D83A0:01C2BD20] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:29:25 -0500 Status: RO Uh, sorry folks, I really, really have no idea where this is coming from, I sent it 2 weeks ago, and it was posted 2 weeks ago on the list, and you already all answered, and I'm still shopping... it's not because I'm repeating myself! Really! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: ; Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 1:00 AM Subject: [h-cost] Buying a sewing machine > Hi all! > > My parents are planning on buying me a sewing machine for Christmas. We > didn't have time to shop before, so it will be a late present, but we saw a > couple of machines today and I'm a little lost. > > We saw the Pfaff machines but they were bought out by Husqvarna and we're > afraid we might have trouble getting it repaired? > > Anyway, we were looking at the Select 1540 (mechanical) and the Expression > 2034 (electronic). Are any of you familiar with those machines? Those > electronic ones look very nice, but since I'm probably going to keep it for > a very long time, I want to be certain I'm choosing the right thing. > > We also saw the Viking machines, they look niftier and they're less > expensive for very similar functionalities. I'm not sure which model we were > looking at, but comparing with the Husqvarna website it might have been the > Rose model. Or maybe it was Lily. Viking machines seem to all be electronic > now. I'm pretty certain you're all going to say it's a good choice, but > aside from that, any other comments? > > So, any advice? Should I drive all the way across town (40 km) to take a > look at the Bernina machines? Should I try to find a Singer retailer to > investigate them too? What about the White machines? Do you think I should > avoid Pfaff because of the change of company ownership? > > Help? > > :-) > > And thanks a lot... > > Audrey > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 01:27:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20888 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:27:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G6R2tv013801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G6R0GT002757; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G6QcGT002630 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:26:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from Tudorldy@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1c0.3830b20 (16335) for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:26:28 -0500 (EST) From: Tudorldy@aol.com Message-ID: <1c0.3830b20.2b57aa94@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1c0.3830b20.2b57aa94_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10638 Subject: [h-cost] Parasol frame available Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:26:28 EST Status: RO --part1_1c0.3830b20.2b57aa94_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Will the person who needed the parasol frame please contact me? I have one that may work for you, if it does, it's yours, gratis. It's about 36" long overall with quite long ribs, and a carved wooden knob handle which has seen better days but certainly could be cleaned up very nicely with a little effort. Please drop me an e-mail, and if you want it, I'll be glad to mail it to you ASAP. Best regards, Meagn --part1_1c0.3830b20.2b57aa94_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Will the person who needed the parasol frame please contact me?  I have one that may work for you, if it does, it's yours, gratis.  It's about 36" long overall with quite long ribs, and a carved wooden knob handle which has seen better days but certainly could be cleaned up very nicely with a little effort.  Please drop me an e-mail, and if you want it, I'll be glad to mail it to you ASAP.

Best regards,
Meagn --part1_1c0.3830b20.2b57aa94_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 03:07:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28060 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 03:07:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G897tv016698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G891GT026839; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0G88BGT026662 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:08:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030116080810.84365.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:08:10 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] important old master paintings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <007001c2bce4$1c0d6340$01fea8c0@vaio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:08:10 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Rowena wrote: > There is a VERY large auction up online at Sotheby's, with paintings that > date back to the 1400s. I haven't made it past the first 5 pages. I > have, of course, been admiring the ones that have people - like the BACK of > a lady playing an instrument! There are some famous ones in there, and I > have been finding it fascinating. Especially since they are nice enough > to not only let you clickon the thumbnail to see a larger one, they let you > click on enlarge so you can see a really nice size! > Rowena *whimper* Ohhhh!!! Lots and lots and lots of piccies. I can't make up my mind which one I would choose, but I sure as hell am saving all of the ones that are in my time frame of study. Thanks for the link! I just wish they gave dates, but I guess I'm pretty good nowadays at dating themaccording to costume :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 04:54:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00524 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 04:54:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G9u2tv019481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 02:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G9u0GT021067; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 02:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0G9tEGT020897 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 02:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0G9tD124389.; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:55:13 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:55:12 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] important old master paintings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0G9tEGT020897 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:55:02 +0000 Status: RO What intrigues me is that she appears to be wearing something with a shoulder strap *under* her shift (looks like what we in Britain would call a vest!) Lovely Redoute flower paintings too! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> chiara@io.com 01/15/03 10:52pm >>> Lot# 32: *SIR PETER PAUL RUBENS (1577-1640), A FISHERMAN IN A FRISIAN HAT AND A PEASANT WOMAN EMBRACING I swear you can see a draw string on that neckline, and a seam on the back side. These are great pictures! Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally - _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 06:35:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00836 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:35:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GBbBtv022122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 04:37:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GBb0GT009577; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 04:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GBasGT009539 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 04:36:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE07114759 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:33:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DE662114594 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:33:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <011e01c2bd53$14cab780$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric identification... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:33:24 -0500 Status: RO . Could it be something other than linen? It acts like linen, > it feels like linen, it's woven like linen, it burns like linen... Something > else I should try? Or should I be happy with that and rush to buy the roll > next thing tomorrow morning? :-) > Welll...if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... I say buy and dye! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 08:59:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03167 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:59:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GE0Btv026933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GE03GT013654; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe24.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GDxLGT013481 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:59:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 05:59:15 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [141.218.229.60] From: "Jessica Glave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2BD3D.8ABDE270" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2003 13:59:15.0737 (UTC) FILETIME=[74B93090:01C2BD67] Subject: [h-cost] glengarry cap Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:59:13 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2BD3D.8ABDE270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If anyone has any sort of pattern to make a glengarry cap (also known = as a glengarry bonnet), which is the type of cap that would be worn by a = turn-of-the-century bagpiper, I would really appreciate the help. Thanks, Jessica ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2BD3D.8ABDE270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   If anyone has any sort of = pattern to=20 make a glengarry cap (also known as a glengarry bonnet), which is the = type of=20 cap that would be worn by a turn-of-the-century bagpiper, I would really = appreciate the help.
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =            =20 Thanks,
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp; =20 Jessica
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2BD3D.8ABDE270-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 09:16:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03354 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:16:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GEI6tv027612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:18:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GEI1GT018599; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GEHTGT018412 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:17:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8T003XU90PKW@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:17:24 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for stuff.... X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030115104710.07b93098@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:16:29 -0500 Status: RO Sandy Pettinger asked: >I'm looking for medium grey velvet. It needs to be drapeable, so >upholstery weight is not an option. I found one site (velvetfabrics.com >?) with two colors of grey, but hope to find maybe one other, so I have a >choice. I don't need much, so it doesn't have to be super-cheap, but >don't want to break the bank either. Try http://www.trimfabrics.com, or possibly http://classicfabric.com/index2.html (this is one of the popular silk-velvet vendors on e-bay), or http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/fabric-apparel---fashion-fabrics-velvet--velveteen---velour.html (Phoenix Textiles)... >The other is harder - I need a parasol or parasol frame, a la My Fair >Lady. IOW, not the tiny bridal parasols, but one suitable for that time >period, that could have been used as a walking stick as well. Ideally, it >would be a sword-parasol, but I'm 99.99% sure I won't find that. At one point, I'd've sent you over to "Uncle Sam's Umbrellas" here in NYC. Unfortunately, they went out of business a few years ago... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 09:25:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03453 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:25:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GERHtv028170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:27:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GER4GT021488; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:27:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GEQkGT021385 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:26:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-004-163.jps.net ([216.119.4.163] helo=pavilion) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18ZAyi-0005eX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:26:45 -0800 Message-ID: <001201c2bd6c$63c0e9e0$a30477d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <20030116080810.84365.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] saving web sites for later viewing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:34:32 -0800 Status: RO Did you know there is a niffy little program called "snag a site" that will capture someone's web site for you so you can view it off line, links and all? I occasionally use it when a site like Mark Carlson's one on shoes interests me enough to use off line. Anyone want a copy? I can send it to anyone in a zip file. I believe it is a public domain program (pretty sure). It's great for art sites. Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] important old master paintings > --- Rowena wrote: > There is a VERY large auction > up online at Sotheby's, with paintings that > > date back to the 1400s. I haven't made it past the first 5 pages. I > > have, of course, been admiring the ones that have people - like the BACK of > > a lady playing an instrument! There are some famous ones in there, and I > > have been finding it fascinating. Especially since they are nice enough > > to not only let you clickon the thumbnail to see a larger one, they let you > > click on enlarge so you can see a really nice size! > > Rowena > > *whimper* Ohhhh!!! Lots and lots and lots of piccies. I can't make up my mind > which one I would choose, but I sure as hell am saving all of the ones that are > in my time frame of study. Thanks for the link! > > I just wish they gave dates, but I guess I'm pretty good nowadays at dating > themaccording to costume :-) > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 09:54:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03562 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:54:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GEjBtv029087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:45:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GEhBGT026157; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:43:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GEecGT025444 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:40:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-119-133.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.119.133]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOZ52903; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:38:26 GMT Message-ID: <022601c2bd6c$becabaf0$906a4ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0223_01C2BD6C.BDE5D930" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:37:05 -0000 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0223_01C2BD6C.BDE5D930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 19th C Yes I have but you can buy them ever so cheaply on anchors = website Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated ------=_NextPart_000_0223_01C2BD6C.BDE5D930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
19th C Yes I have but you can buy them = ever so=20 cheaply on anchors website
 
Mel
 
This e-mail, and any attachment, is = confidential.=20 If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, = do not=20 use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me = immediately. The=20 contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the = views=20 of the
Company, unless specifically stated
------=_NextPart_000_0223_01C2BD6C.BDE5D930-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 10:14:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03618 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:14:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFG6tv001078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFG1dX008299; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFFgdX008147 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:15:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8T004N9BP02B@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:15:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3E26CC90.5060501@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:15:28 -0600 Status: RO Audrey wrote: >I walked home with a swatch. Burn tested it. Steady flame, embers slow to >extinguish, natural fiber smell, but most interesting of all, powdery >blackish ash... Could it be something other than linen? It acts like linen, >it feels like linen, it's woven like linen, it burns like linen... Something >else I should try? Or should I be happy with that and rush to buy the roll >next thing tomorrow morning? [:-)] I found offwhite fabric that is exactly like that this past year at Joannes and had the same experience. I did the burn test with washed and unwashed swatches. Even split the threads up and tried that (all left that black powdery ash). It does have the same hand that linen does, but the wrinkles it gets when wadded up do not hold quite as crisply as linen, and it is ever so slightly smoother or softer? (compared it to some real linen I had on hand). I sadly suspect this is some Rayon or other man made fiber from some natural product, that is a really good copy of linen. As far as I know, the burn test can't be that far off, ... -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 10:20:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03670 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:20:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFJ0tv001256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFJ0dX009436; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFIUdX009189 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:18:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8T008OJBUP2Y@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:18:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric identification... To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3E26CD5D.7080505@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:18:53 -0600 Status: RO >Welll...if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a >duck... Ahh but does it cr*p like a duck is the question... the black powdery substance is all wrong....(sorry, had to say it, it was the first thing I thought of when I saw the duck analogy)... LOL >I say buy and dye! -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 10:35:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03739 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:35:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFb1tv002600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFb0dX017290; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from valhalla.ee.rochester.edu (root@valhalla.ee.rochester.edu [128.151.160.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h09JN4Vc002909 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:23:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [128.151.160.82] (csb421mac1.ee.rochester.edu [128.151.160.82]) by valhalla.ee.rochester.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21212; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:23:02 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: RuthAnn Williams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] 4th Cent. bishop's pattern Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:23:01 -0500 Status: RO Hi! Mostly I am a lurker to this list, but need to ask for some information and/or help. A friend of mine is putting together a portrayal of St. Nicholas the bishop and asked for some help on his costume. Up to now I have not been able to locate a pattern as I am not sure of the style of dress. What I would like to find is fairly good pattern for a bishop's costume particularly for the 4th century or a pattern that could be adapted. Thanks in advance for your help, Ruth Williams Rochester, NY williams@ece.rochester.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 10:45:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03813 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:45:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFk2tv003290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFk1dX021956; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFjOdX021602 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:45:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A3921E1700E8; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:45:22 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A392EE40274; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:45:22 -0600 Message-ID: <00a601c2bd75$88b23980$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:40:01 -0500 Status: RO I am trying to date a group of fashion plates. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it. I have eight of these plates that all seem to be from the same year. http://www.costumegallery.com/FashionPlates/Romantic/dress2.jpg This plate is titled: Evening Dress expressly made for Ladies Magazine (pre-cursor to Godey's Magazine) If you think it is of a given time span, please explain why you think so. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 11:01:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03908 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:01:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GG23tv004567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GG20dX029551; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GG1TdX029296 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:01:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A758B3B60108; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:01:28 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A75736802A2; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:01:27 -0600 Message-ID: <00ae01c2bd77$c45ecbe0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <00a601c2bd75$88b23980$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:56:00 -0500 Status: RO More info... I have checked the book, French Fashion Plates of the Romantic Era 1830-34 by Judy M. Johnson. Only the first four plates in this book look similar to the ones I have. The bonnets on my plates are larger and the bells of the skirts are not as wide and decorative as in the book. There is one image in my collection that has two women in the plate... one standing lady and the other sitting on a chair showing the rear of the costume. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:40 AM Subject: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate > I am trying to date a group of fashion plates. If anyone could help I would > really appreciate it. I have eight of these plates that all seem to be from > the same year. > http://www.costumegallery.com/FashionPlates/Romantic/dress2.jpg > This plate is titled: > Evening Dress > expressly made for Ladies Magazine (pre-cursor to Godey's Magazine) > > If you think it is of a given time span, please explain why you think so. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 11:09:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03940 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:09:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGA8tv005222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGA0dX003674; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GG9IdX003281 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:09:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030116160913.MRWL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:09:13 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=____1042733353582_JEQHhcQpOJ" X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out002.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:09:13 -0600 Message-Id: <20030116160913.MRWL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:09:13 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=____1042733353582_JEQHhcQpOJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > From: "Jessica Glave" > Date: 2003/01/16 Thu AM 08:59:13 EST > To: > Subject: [h-cost] glengarry cap > > If anyone has any sort of pattern to make a glengarry cap (also known as a glengarry bonnet), which is the type of cap that would be worn by a turn-of-the-century bagpiper, I would really appreciate the help. > > Thanks, > Jessica > > As I recall a proper Glengerry isn't sewn, it's woven. (I will try to check mine when I get home). Much like a Balmoral. The 'gerry as they were often called in the period your discussing was a common military cap, for English as well as Scottish regiments. I have seen a number of extant Victorian 'gerrys and the quality modern ones realy are pretty much the same. Some differences are that regimental ones were regulated. Some regiments had dicing some did not. Also the tourie (little pom pom on top) were in different colours for various regiments and the ribbons hanging down tghe back were cut differently. I have this information for WWII regiments, but not earlier. The reason I mention quality glengerrys is that cheaper ones are often sewn, and the dicing is occasionally a cheap plaid or checked ribbon sewn on. A quality gerry should cost you between $35 and $60 at any Scottish shop. R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach ------=____1042733353582_JEQHhcQpOJ Content-Type: text/html; name="reply" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="reply"
   If anyone has any sort of pattern to make a glengarry cap (also known as a glengarry bonnet), which is the type of cap that would be worn by a turn-of-the-century bagpiper, I would really appreciate the help.
 
                                               Thanks,
                                                  Jessica
------=____1042733353582_JEQHhcQpOJ-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 11:23:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03998 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:23:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGO3tv006458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGO1dX010767; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGNudX010714 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:23:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.213]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F47A48148C for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:23:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000b01c2bd7b$e3d8f9b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <00a601c2bd75$88b23980$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <00ae01c2bd77$c45ecbe0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:25:31 +0100 Status: RO Dear Penny. I think you are right. It could be the start of the 30ies in my oppinion two.......... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate > More info... I have checked the book, French Fashion Plates of the Romantic > Era 1830-34 by Judy M. Johnson. Only the first four plates in this book > look similar to the ones I have. The bonnets on my plates are larger and > the bells of the skirts are not as wide and decorative as in the book. > There is one image in my collection that has two women in the plate... one > standing lady and the other sitting on a chair showing the rear of the > costume. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny Ladnier" > To: "h-costume" > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:40 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate > > > > I am trying to date a group of fashion plates. If anyone could help I > would > > really appreciate it. I have eight of these plates that all seem to be > from > > the same year. > > http://www.costumegallery.com/FashionPlates/Romantic/dress2.jpg > > This plate is titled: > > Evening Dress > > expressly made for Ladies Magazine (pre-cursor to Godey's Magazine) > > > > If you think it is of a given time span, please explain why you think so. > > > > Penny Ladnier > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > http://www.costumegallery.com > > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 11:28:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04039 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:28:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGT5tv006901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGT3dX013295; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0GGSZdX012988 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmy+OEQKu42qPhSWTTTMwVpOPHrY7AbNGw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNNK5NKS; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:27:38 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate Message-ID: <20030116.102738.-449975.7.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,14-17 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:27:38 -0600 Status: RO This is NOT my area of expertise so if anyone else feels differently than I do, I will bow to a more educated opinion. This dress looks to me like late 1829 -thru 1830's. Reasons- The skirts are starting to take on the bell shape of the 1830's as opposed to the straighter more conical look of the 1820's. The sleeves are starting to show the full-topped but drooping look of the '30's and the head-dress is starting to open up from the face which is typical of the '30's rather than the closer to the face styles of the '20's. The shoulders are also depicted as being very sloping while shoulders in the '20's tended to be drawn in a squarer shape. The waistline is also show in a relatively natural position but without a point in front which would place is squarely (pun intended) after the fall of the Empire (yes, I meant that) but before the 1840's. My Tuppence, Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 11:50:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04178 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:50:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGn4tv008656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGn1dX023903; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGmgdX023710 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:48:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.117] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A0B25E40204; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:41:22 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c2bd7f$9c00f580$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C2BD55.B2692420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Costume Maker's Art Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:52:08 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C2BD55.B2692420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those of you who have or are enjoying The Costume Maker's Art, may I = also suggest that there is another fabrication volume that was published = about the same time that has all the details of contemporary = interpretations of textile construction and embellishment that flows = from the past into the future. The title? Art To Wear by JS Dale, 1986. = Having spent some time since the coming of the new year with the Kyoto = book, I am struck with the similarity of connection with the past as one = studies the rebirth or recreation of fashion history of design ideas. = This book should not be mistaken for other titles of that name that = mainly featured Folkwear interps, or the new book that features ethnic = root interps. = = = = In my own study of costume history, I am often awed by the = various factors that go into the manipulation of fabric to create and = recreate fashion change. Many of you are doing this as you seek to = reinterpret or recreate costumes and assessories from a particular time = fragment. Some times it is the textile itself that determined the = garment made; some times it seems to be the tools of the trade, or the = cut and sewing techniques. I am finding the stimulation from all three = of the above books to be marvelous food for my mind's eye. And it is a = Grande get-away from fielding orders and attacking the studio clutter. = = = = Kathleen, who must get on with "Had on...Took with". = = = = =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C2BD55.B2692420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For those of you who have or are enjoying The = Costume Maker's=20 Art, may I also suggest that there is another fabrication volume that = was=20 published about the same time that has all the details of contemporary=20 interpretations of textile construction and embellishment that flows = from the=20 past into the future.  The title? Art To Wear by JS Dale, 1986. = Having=20 spent some time since the coming of the new year with the Kyoto book, I = am=20 struck with the similarity of connection with the past as one studies = the=20 rebirth or recreation of fashion history of design ideas. This book = should not=20 be mistaken for other titles of that name that mainly featured = Folkwear=20 interps, or the new book that features ethnic root = interps.   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20            In my own study = of=20 costume history, I am often awed by the various factors that go into the = manipulation of fabric to create and recreate fashion change.  Many = of you=20 are doing this as you seek to reinterpret  or recreate costumes and = assessories from a particular time fragment. Some times it is the = textile=20 itself  that determined the garment made; some times it seems to be = the=20 tools of the trade, or the cut and sewing techniques.  I am finding = the=20 stimulation from all three of the above books to be marvelous food for = my mind's=20 eye.  And it is a Grande get-away from fielding orders and = attacking the=20 studio clutter.           =20             =    =20             =    =20            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     Kathleen, who must get on with "Had on...Took=20 with".           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20            =20       =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;       
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C2BD55.B2692420-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 11:54:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04210 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:54:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGtBtv009236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:55:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGt2dX027230; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GGs9dX026791 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.213]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 859DC48108F for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:54:08 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001801c2bd80$1e5c8a80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20030115092828.67499.qmail@web41010.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] origin of words, wheelfarthingale_ fishboneskirt. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:55:47 +0100 Status: RO Hi Heather. It would be two much troubble for you. I will go to the library. But thanks for your help! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Rose Jones" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] origin of words, wheelfarthingale_ fishboneskirt. > At 1:28 AM -0800 1/15/03, Tania Gruning wrote: > >Hi Bjarne. > > > >I am pretty certain that somebody in Denmark made a dictionary of > >all the danish words in the end of the 18'th beginning at the 17'th > >century.I just cannot remember what it is called. It is at least 20 > >books with all sorts of danish words. Ask your local librarian. > > Well, there's: > > Kalkar, Otto. 1881. Ordbog til det AEldre Danske Sprog (1300-1700) > 5v.. Thieles Bogtrykkeri, Kobenhavn. > > Only five volumes, not 20, but otherwise it sounds exactly like your > description. I own the set, so I could look things up, if desired. > > (Hey, don't ask me what I'm doing with a five volume dictionary of > Old Danish ... it was there in the bookstore, so I bought it. > Wouldnt' you? The startling thing is that I've actually used it half > a dozen times ... well, ok, given my hobbies, maybe not quite _that_ > startling.) > > Heather > -- > ***** > Heather Rose Jones > hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu > ***** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 12:00:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04276 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:00:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GH19tv009790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GH16dX000716; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GH0ndX000539 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.213]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 72DEC4804BF for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:00:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002601c2bd81$0d308670$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] stage designer Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:02:28 +0100 Status: RO Hi. Guess what. Somebody emailed me and asked if i would like to be their costume designer for a play. I should make the stage settings two. But it is for amateaur theater, and no wages. It is a play settled in 1840ies with Hans Christian Andersen the story teller and Heiberg, the famous actress. It is in North Sealand, so i would have to travel 1 ½ hour by train. Their play is going to start in august. Phew if i had ben 20 years younger, i think i would have told them yes, but no wages............... No! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 12:22:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04455 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:22:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GHL7tv012423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:21:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GHL3dX012818; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GHK8dX012133 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.97.32a4931e (25508) for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:18:52 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <97.32a4931e.2b58437c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stage designer To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_97.32a4931e.2b58437c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:18:52 EST Status: RO --part1_97.32a4931e.2b58437c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/16/2003 12:02:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > Phew if i had ben 20 years younger, i think i would have told them yes, but > no wages............... No! > > Good for you! Is everyone working free, like the famous actress? You do not need what we here call "ticket punching" at this point--the main reason to work for free, unless it is for a group you are really passionately committed to. Ann Wass --part1_97.32a4931e.2b58437c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/16/2003 12:02:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


Phew if i had ben 20 years younger, i think i would have told them yes, but
no wages............... No!



Good for you!  Is everyone working free, like the famous actress?  You do not need what we here call "ticket punching" at this point--the main reason to work for free, unless it is for a group you are really passionately committed to.
Ann Wass --part1_97.32a4931e.2b58437c_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 12:59:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06594 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:59:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GI03tv016180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GI03dX005249; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web13301.mail.yahoo.com (web13301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0GHwxdX004709 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:59:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030116175859.6434.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web13301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:58:59 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] stage designer To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002601c2bd81$0d308670$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:58:59 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi. > Guess what. > Somebody emailed me and asked if i would like to be their costume designer > for a play. I should make the stage settings two. > But it is for amateaur theater, and no wages. > It is a play settled in 1840ies with Hans Christian Andersen the story > teller and Heiberg, the famous actress. > It is in North Sealand, so i would have to travel 1 ½ hour by train. Their > play is going to start in august. > Phew if i had ben 20 years younger, i think i would have told them yes, but > no wages............... No! Good grief Bjarne, I agree with Anneand you, NO WAY! If it were your friends, or you feel indeed passionate about something, or it is for a really good cause that you would like to support, but just so? No dear, that is taking advantage by them of you. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 13:04:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06660 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:04:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GHu5tv015784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GHu1dX003044; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GHtZdX002784 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A21721330112; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:55:35 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A2158170256; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:55:33 -0600 Message-ID: <011201c2bd87$7d5bd480$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <002601c2bd81$0d308670$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stage designer X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:48:33 -0500 Status: RO I think you made the right decision Bjarne. You are too good to work for free. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 13:21:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06777 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:21:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GIC7tv017499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:12:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GIC1dX012590; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0GIBPdX012201 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:11:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWqvdnpYZ1AFRm/G6KPsfoMvT3C7bIl3pYA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNNRZ67G; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:10:35 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] stage designer Message-ID: <20030116.130729.-629047.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:05:49 -0500 Status: RO Would they go for paying your expenses? Still, you are really too good to give away your work unless it is something that sounds like fun and you want to do it. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 13:33:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06869 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:33:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GIX6tv019484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:33:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GIX0v3024852; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe43.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GIWrv3024716 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:32:48 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <3E26CC90.5060501@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2003 18:32:48.0538 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB83DFA0:01C2BD8D] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:35:58 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda J. Thompson" > > I found offwhite fabric that is exactly like that this past year at Joannes and > same experience. I did the burn test with washed and unwashed swatches. [...] > I sadly suspect this is some Rayon or other man made fiber from some > natural product, that is a really good copy of linen. How can you tell rayon from linen? I've been looking at fabric identification sites... the only differences I can see are that rayon leaves almost no ash when burned and looses strength when wet. But I don't think that's enough to tell them apart... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 14:09:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07154 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:09:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJA4tv022658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJA0v3015380; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJ9vv3015306 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:09:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.cc.17241d07 (17526) for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:09:47 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] stage designer To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_cc.17241d07.2b585d7b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:09:47 EST Status: RO --part1_cc.17241d07.2b585d7b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/16/2003 12:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > But it is for amateaur theater, and no wages. > So what else is new? If you want to work for free, be my guest [though I'd just do either the set OR the costumes]. But insist on a budget for the costumes. You must have some money to produce 3-D costumes. With scenery one can suggest a wall or door, you can suggest an open field or forest. You can't suggest a bodice. You can't suggest a pair of shoes. --part1_cc.17241d07.2b585d7b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/16/2003 12:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


But it is for amateaur theater, and no wages.


So what else is new?

If you want to work for free, be my guest [though I'd just do either the set OR the costumes]. But insist on a budget for the costumes. You must have some money to produce 3-D costumes. With scenery one can suggest a wall or door, you can suggest an open field or forest. You can't suggest a bodice. You can't suggest a pair of shoes. --part1_cc.17241d07.2b585d7b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 14:23:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07306 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:23:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJP1tv024115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJP0v3023569; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJOTv3023181 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:24:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1cb.18010f (16097) for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:23:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d24.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.140]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID111-0116142359; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:23:59 1900 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3DA5A17F.6EEFBA34.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] glengarry cap Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:23:59 -0500 Status: RO MoiRandal has a pattern for a glengarry cap. You can check at his site: http://members.aol.com/randwhit/patterns.htm#glengarry It looks like it should be exactly what you need. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com > From: "Jessica Glave" > If anyone has any sort of pattern to make a glengarry cap (also known as a glengarry bonnet), which is the type of cap that would be worn by a turn-of-the-century bagpiper, I would really appreciate the help. > > Thanks, > Jessica _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 14:26:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07322 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:26:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJM4tv023879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJM1v3022029; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJLTv3021763 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:21:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18ZFZu-0002I3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:21:26 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for stuff.... Message-ID: <001101c2bd94$7d8a99c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2BD59.D12BC1C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030115113748.00bb55e8@blue.ucdavis.edu> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:21:37 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2BD59.D12BC1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not sure how drapable you mean, but I have had great success washing cotton upholstery velvet. It sure is nice after a few washes! Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2BD59.D12BC1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Not sure how drapable you mean, but I have had great success washing cotton upholstery velvet. =  It sure is nice after a few = washes!

 

Sg

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2BD59.D12BC1C0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 14:34:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07378 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:34:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJX6tv024844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:33:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJX1v3028031; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJW8v3027545 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:32:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0499.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.251.244]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18ZFk5-00071Y-00 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:32:08 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] 4th Cent. bishop's pattern Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:33:17 -0800 Status: RO RuthAnn Williams wrote: >Mostly I am a lurker to this list, but need to ask for some >information and/or help. A friend of mine is putting together a >portrayal of St. Nicholas the bishop and asked for some help on his >costume. > >Up to now I have not been able to locate a pattern as I am not sure >of the style of dress. What I would like to find is fairly good >pattern for a bishop's costume particularly for the 4th century or a >pattern that could be adapted. Well, that's Roman period. I suggest looking at some of the surviving so-called "Coptic" Egyptian tunics. This shape appears to have been commonly worn in many parts of the Empire, especially the Eastern Mediterranean, although the specific decorative details (tapestry woven right into the garment) seem local. Then look at art from the time, to see how men dressed. He would likely have worn some sort of rectangular wrap garment, although probably not the semi-eliptical toga. The bishop's mitre we're familiar with was not in use in the 300s. That should get you started... Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 14:36:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07382 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:36:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJb2tv025251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJb2v3000389; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJaqv3000288 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:36:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.213]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 68DE35EEB16 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:36:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c2bd96$de6e4d70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] important old master paintings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:38:39 +0100 Status: RO Hi. If i had the money? i would go for that lace maker two. Absolutely lovely. And i also love the lady who sits and plays at the clavicord. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 14:39:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07412 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:39:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJe9tv025493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:40:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJe1v3001986; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f180.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJdKv3001636 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:39:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:36:52 -0800 Received: from 65.116.171.30 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:36:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.116.171.30] From: "R Harper" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Subject: [h-cost] stage designer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2003 19:36:52.0063 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E6F3EF0:01C2BD96] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:36:51 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne, you made absolutely the right decision. I have found myself working for free as favors to friends, and invariably it takes up all the time I should have to do the work I really love (and, even sometimes, taking the place of paying work it was then impossible to accept). BTW, took several good looks at your sacque back gown. It's delicious. Richard _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 14:40:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07422 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:40:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJf1tv025567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJf0v3002500; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJeev3002308 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:40:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.213]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B37B15EE3DF for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:40:39 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002b01c2bd97$67bc72f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] portraits Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:42:29 +0100 Status: RO In case some of you have plans to come to Denmark. The National Gallery at Frederiksborg Castle will have an exhibition in april with 100 portraits. Some wich never has ben shown before! Wich reminds me that i owe you! I promised to go there and take photos and post for you! They have a lot of renaissance portraits. Well i got my digital camera now, and when the light comes back to Denmark in a coupple of months, i shall go! Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 14:44:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07493 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:44:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJj2tv025933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJj1v3004744; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJiVv3004458 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:44:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18ZFwC-0006v7-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:44:29 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap References: <20030116160913.MRWL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> In-Reply-To: <20030116160913.MRWL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:33:06 +0000 Status: RO I'm confused? How can you weave something into that shape? Jean r.carnegie@verizon.net wrote > >> >> From: "Jessica Glave" >> Date: 2003/01/16 Thu AM 08:59:13 EST >> To: >> Subject: [h-cost] glengarry cap >> >> If anyone has any sort of pattern to make a glengarry cap (also >>known as a glengarry bonnet), which is the type of cap that would be >>worn by a turn-of-the-century bagpiper, I would really appreciate the >> >> >> Thanks, >> Jessica >> >> > As I recall a proper Glengerry isn't sewn, it's woven. (I will try >to check mine when I get home). Much like a Balmoral. The 'gerry as >they were often called in the period your discussing was a common >military cap, for English as well as Scottish regiments. I have seen a >number of extant Victorian 'gerrys and the quality modern ones realy >are pretty much the same. Some differences are that regimental ones >were regulated. Some regiments had dicing some did not. Also the >tourie (little pom pom on top) were in different colours for various >regiments and the ribbons hanging down tghe back were cut differently. >I have this information for WWII regiments, but not earlier. > > The reason I mention quality glengerrys is that cheaper ones are >often sewn, and the dicing is occasionally a cheap plaid or checked >ribbon sewn on. A quality gerry should cost you between $35 and $60 at >any Scottish shop. > >R.Carnegie@verizon.net >"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." > R. Bach >   If anyone has any sort of pattern to make a glengarry cap (also known >as a glengarry bonnet), which is the type of cap that would be worn by a >turn-of-the-century bagpiper, I would really appreciate the help. >  >                                               Thanks, >                                                  Jessica -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 14:59:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07628 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:59:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GK04tv027309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GK04v3013064; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxout5.cac.washington.edu (mxout5.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJx8v3012599 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:59:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9]) by mxout5.cac.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.12) with ESMTP id h0GJx67l024939; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:59:06 -0800 Received: from [128.95.177.85] (gawne.urol.washington.edu [128.95.177.85]) by smtp.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.12) with ESMTP id h0GJx6un031140; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:59:06 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 From: Agnes G To: , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030116164900.23897.4931.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] re: Help dating a fashion plate Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:59:06 -0800 Status: RO I get the list in digest so this may be a little late but I think that is a fashion from 1829, 1830 at the latest. I have posted a quick webpage with my images that I had here on my computer from this era so you can see the ones I think are most similar to this plate. I will take this page down later today so look at it quickly if this is a period you care about. I have hundreds of images from 1800 to 1850 and these 3 are the closest. It's on my work website at : http://staff.washington.edu/gawne/ so it can't stay up there too long. I hope this helps. Agnes > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > From: "Penny Ladnier" > To: "h-costume" > Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:40:01 -0500 > Subject: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > I am trying to date a group of fashion plates. If anyone could help I would > really appreciate it. I have eight of these plates that all seem to be from > the same year. > http://www.costumegallery.com/FashionPlates/Romantic/dress2.jpg > This plate is titled: > Evening Dress > expressly made for Ladies Magazine (pre-cursor to Godey's Magazine) > > If you think it is of a given time span, please explain why you think so. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > --__--__-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 15:04:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07686 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:04:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GK52tv027789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GK51v3015749; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0GK4Hv3015302 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:04:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWqvdnpYZ1AFRdeY68Ef/gVukR3npK3MzpA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNNYHGTJ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:03:48 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] important old master paintings Message-ID: <20030116.150003.-629047.5.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:00:02 -0500 Status: RO You can order a catalog for "only" $50.00 US. Guess I will have to pass on that. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 15:07:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07695 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:07:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJwCtv027167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:58:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJw0v3011976; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GJvPv3011663 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:57:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.213]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 309865EE9CD for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:57:24 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <008201c2bd99$bf16bea0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] stage designer Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:59:14 +0100 Status: RO Hi, and thanks for your back up. They are having 70 actors with speaking roles, and 20 statists. I would have 6 experienced semstresses and many craftsmen for the stages. What they wanted from me would be costume drawings, sewing tecknical help for the historic details, drafts for the stages with the instruktor. Alone the job to make more than 70 costume drawings, and the time i would have to study the period from 1830 - 1900 and then the sets, how could i possible do that when i have my full time job to take care of, i need that to have butter on my bread, and then there would be no way to make anything else. Besides they have premiere in august, and what about my summer holliday then? There are many things to consider, i am sure it could be great fun, perhaps somebody would notice me, but heck.......... i dont have the guts and the energy for that and then no money! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 15:08:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07703 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:08:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GK92tv028180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GK91v3017914; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GK80v3017301 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-115-74.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.115.74]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOZ81733; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:08:57 GMT Message-ID: <010b01c2bd9b$51d09580$4a734ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030116160913.MRWL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:10:20 -0000 Status: RO >I'm confused? How can you weave something into that shape? I'm confused too gow can you and the ones we have bought are British MOD issue and about 7 pounds IMR Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 15:32:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07844 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:32:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GKX5tv000713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:33:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GKX1v3001159; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GKWIv3000752 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:32:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030116203212.SMOJ23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:32:12 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at out001.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:32:12 -0600 Message-Id: <20030116203212.SMOJ23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:32:12 -0500 Status: RO > > From: "Melanie Wilson" > Date: 2003/01/16 Thu PM 03:10:20 EST > To: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap > > >I'm confused? How can you weave something into that shape? > > I'm confused too gow can you and the ones we have bought are British MOD > issue and about 7 pounds IMR > > Mel British MOD sell for more here in the US, and tend to be small sizes. They do come up on ebay occasionally though (I have no idea where the original poster is). Here in North America Canada would be a good source for used issued. As far as how is it done, I do not know, it has to do with blocking sort of like a military beret. I just looked at mine at lunch to verify however and it is only stitched together in the rear (where the ribbons are). Cheers, Ron R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 15:53:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07903 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:53:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GKs3tv003060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GKs1v3012978; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from axion-it.net (mail.closecall.com [209.183.229.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GKrEv3012471 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:53:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [65.130.113.154] (account suellen@closecall.com HELO sue) by axion-it.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 6215545 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:53:26 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01c2bda1$c0017320$bc76fea9@stargate.net> From: "Sue" To: References: <20030116080810.84365.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> <001201c2bd6c$63c0e9e0$a30477d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] saving web sites for later viewing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:55:36 -0500 Status: RO Lisa, I would love to have a copy. Thanks Sue Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave. Frederick, MD 21701 http://www.VictorianMillinery.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:34 AM Subject: [h-cost] saving web sites for later viewing > Did you know there is a niffy little program called "snag a site" that will > capture someone's web site for you so you can view it off line, links and > all? I occasionally use it when a site like Mark Carlson's one on shoes > interests me enough to use off line. Anyone want a copy? I can send it to > anyone in a zip file. I believe it is a public domain program (pretty > sure). It's great for art sites. > Lisa > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "N Kipar" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:08 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] important old master paintings > > > > --- Rowena wrote: > There is a VERY large > auction > > up online at Sotheby's, with paintings that > > > date back to the 1400s. I haven't made it past the first 5 pages. I > > > have, of course, been admiring the ones that have people - like the BACK > of > > > a lady playing an instrument! There are some famous ones in there, > and I > > > have been finding it fascinating. Especially since they are nice > enough > > > to not only let you clickon the thumbnail to see a larger one, they let > you > > > click on enlarge so you can see a really nice size! > > > Rowena > > > > *whimper* Ohhhh!!! Lots and lots and lots of piccies. I can't make up my > mind > > which one I would choose, but I sure as hell am saving all of the ones > that are > > in my time frame of study. Thanks for the link! > > > > I just wish they gave dates, but I guess I'm pretty good nowadays at > dating > > themaccording to costume :-) > > > > Nicole > > > > ===== > > Nicole Kipar M.A. > > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 15:56:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07920 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:56:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GKv3tv003339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GKv1v3014706; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GKuJv3014307 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:56:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp235099pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net [68.55.183.28]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8T00581RHPU2@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:56:14 -0500 (EST) From: Liz / Cozit Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3E271C70.5030207@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 References: <20030116190008.9773.16476.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:56:16 -0500 Status: RO Missed the original post... but... Almost all the linen-look that JoAnns sells now is a rayon blend.... though I've seen both rayon-poly (mostly), and another rayon mix which I can't remember off the top of my head right now. I only "sort of" looked, since none of their colors came close to my needs and I've found cheaper, better 100% linen on the web now (on and off). Shame too... I'd bought some very nice linen-cotton (50-50) in the past few years that's worked quite nicely... and I'd do it again if they still carried it. JoAnns has also apparently dropped the *good* chamois flannel as well. The junk they sell now is only 45" rather than 60", and it's lighter and *much* more inclined to pill up. *Not* chamois by either definition I was taught and learned to expect. (Again a shame... I've a cloak that's been through a few washings and 2 scotch-guardings over the last 7 years that looks great (other than the "oops" I made when making it, that I just live with if I want to wear my warm one... and only at non-demo SCA or non-"real" re-enacting events).... the one I made 2 years ago from the *junk* keeps needing shaving, and even drenched with scotchguard it doesn't repel *anything*. -Elisabeth h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Linda J. Thompson" > > >>I found offwhite fabric that is exactly like that this past year at Joannes and same experience. I did the burn test with washed and unwashed swatches. >> >> >[...] > > >>I sadly suspect this is some Rayon or other man made fiber from some natural product, that is a really good copy of linen. >> >> > >How can you tell rayon from linen? > >I've been looking at fabric identification sites... the only differences I >can see are that rayon leaves almost no ash when burned and looses strength >when wet. But I don't think that's enough to tell them apart... > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 16:06:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07981 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:06:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GL72tv004257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GL71v3020110; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GL6pv3020006 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:06:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0GL6o103723 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:06:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030116124322.03a0eec0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap In-Reply-To: <20030116203212.SMOJ23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_17706750==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:07:06 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_17706750==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:32 PM 1/16/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > From: "Melanie Wilson" > > >I'm confused? How can you weave something into that shape? > > > > I'm confused too gow can you and the ones we have bought are British MOD > > issue and about 7 pounds IMR > > > > Mel > > British MOD sell for more here in the US, and tend to be small > sizes. They do come up on ebay occasionally though (I have no idea where > the original poster is). Here in North America Canada would be a good > source for used issued. > > As far as how is it done, I do not know, it has to do with blocking > sort of like a military beret. I just looked at mine at lunch to verify > however and it is only stitched together in the rear (where the ribbons are). > >Cheers, >Ron Not having an original in my hands, I'd say they aren't woven but rather steamed and draped out of a wool felt. I look at the cap and that's the first thing that comes to mind. It's how I'd make one. As to a circular loom, the large scale modern ones can be categorized to three types : canopy cloth , bulk bag , geo-textile. You see them used for all sorts of things though mostly for extruded plastic bags. They do come in a textile version. I'm trying to think of a mill off the top of my head that has one of the fabric ones for a reference. I did quickly find a diagram of the plastic bag one with images for you weaving types: http://www.yaota.com.tw/taiwan_3.htm and http://www.yaota.com.tw/taiwan_2.htm (this is a canvas or loose weave installation) Impressive machines... you should see the big knitting machines in action >; ) As to historical looms, here is a list of patents for looms, scan down the page until you hit Circular Looms. http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/patents.html You can view diagrams from the original blueprints on these. Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_17706750==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:32 PM 1/16/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk>
> >I'm confused?  How can you weave something into that shape?
>
> I'm confused too gow can you and the ones we have bought are British MOD
> issue and about 7 pounds IMR
>
> Mel

    British MOD sell for more here in the US, and tend to be small sizes.  They do come up on ebay occasionally though (I have no idea where the original poster is).  Here in North America Canada would be a good source for used issued.

   As far as how is it done, I do not know, it has to do with blocking sort of like a military beret.  I just looked at mine at lunch to verify however and it is only stitched together in the rear (where the ribbons are).

Cheers,
Ron

Not having an original in my hands, I'd say they aren't woven but rather steamed  and draped out of a wool felt. I look at the cap and that's the first thing that comes to mind. It's how I'd make one.

As to a circular loom, the large scale modern ones can be categorized to three types : canopy cloth , bulk bag , geo-textile. You see them used for all sorts of things though mostly for extruded plastic bags. They do come in a textile version. I'm trying to think of a mill off the top of my head that has one of the fabric ones for a reference. I did quickly find a diagram of the plastic bag one with images for you weaving types: http://www.yaota.com.tw/taiwan_3.htm and http://www.yaota.com.tw/taiwan_2.htm (this is a canvas or loose weave installation)

Impressive machines... you should see the big knitting machines in action >; )

As to historical looms, here is a list of patents for looms, scan down the page until you hit Circular Looms. http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/patents.html You can view diagrams from the original blueprints on these.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_17706750==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 17:20:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08440 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:20:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GMK8tv011078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GMK0EM000997; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GMJsEM000892 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-115-74.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.115.74]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOZ93399; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:21:03 GMT Message-ID: <022001c2bdad$c8cf0ec0$4a734ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030116203212.SMOJ23484.out001.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:22:40 -0000 Status: RO >British MOD sell for more here in the US, and tend to be small sizes. They do come up on ebay occasionally though (I have no idea where the original poster is). Here in North America Canada would be a good source for used issued. www.camo.co.uk is the web site although I can't see any it is worth emailing them > As far as how is it done, I do not know, it has to do with blocking sort of like a military beret. I just looked at mine at lunch to verify however and it is only stitched together in the rear (where the ribbons are). I'll look at the one we have. Have you photos of yours ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 18:19:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08720 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:19:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GNL4tv016484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GNL2EM004704; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GNK6EM004154 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0GNK5118869 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:20:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030116151007.02aa41e0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_25702000==.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] article of interest for those early modern Germany Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:20:22 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_25702000==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I finally got a chance to catch up on some reading. It occurred to me some= =20 folks on this might find this useful. Mentges G., Fashion, Time and the Consumption of a Renaissance Man in=20 Germany: The Costume Book of Matth=E4us Schwarz of Augsburg, 1496-1564.=20 Gender & History, November 2002, vol. 14, no. 3, pp. 382-402(21) ,=20 Blackwell Publishers Ltd, Oxford, UK and Boston, USA Interesting article though what I really want is to get a translated copy=20 of The Costume Book of Matth=E4us Schwarz of Augsburg, 1496 - 1564. Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_25702000==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I finally got a chance to catch up on some reading. It occurred to me some folks on this might find this useful.

Mentges G.,  Fashion, Time and the Consumption of a Renaissance Man in Germany: The Costume Book of Matth=E4us Schwarz of Augsburg, 1496-1564. Gender & History, November 2002, vol. 14, no. 3, pp. 382-402(21) , Blackwell Publishers Ltd, Oxford, UK and Boston, USA

Interesting article though what I really want is to get a translated copy of The Costume Book of Matth=E4us Schwarz of Augsburg, 1496 - 1564.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_25702000==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 18:25:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08743 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:25:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GNR2tv016923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GNR1EM008038; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GNQAEM007603 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:26:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8T007LJYFGXB@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:26:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3E273FA9.5000205@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: Fabric identification... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:26:33 -0600 Status: RO I guess what I am basing my non-conclusion on...meaning I don't know what it is.... is that the ash is powdery and BLACK... but you know what... I just this very second now remembered something.. I was cleaning out a cabinet last week, and came across a "make your own" fire kit that my children had received as a gift from a re-enactment site locally. It had a flint rock, an iron bar in it and some "pre-burnt" linen in it...(you hit the rock with the bar over the pre-burnt linen and it would catch fire again from the spark, sort of like charcoal)... anyway.... That burnt linen was very black. And the sample I was working with looked exactly like that.. Maybe some linen just is not a grey color.. or perhaps it is a dark shade and it just looks black to me? So... I guess I am saying... "Oh? Well then, nevermind." :D sigh... spent the day trying to optimize my website and re-register it all over the place ... in a haze and headed for a glass of "Baileys" to ease my pain. Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 18:58:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08839 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:58:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H006tv018987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H001EM024917; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GNxMEM024571 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:59:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout07.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8T00GCHZYQE9@mtaout07.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:59:15 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030116134400.07b93098@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:58:52 -0500 Status: RO Linda Thompson wrote: >Audrey wrote: > >I walked home with a swatch. Burn tested it. Steady flame, embers slow to > >extinguish, natural fiber smell, but most interesting of all, powdery > >blackish ash... Could it be something other than linen? It acts like linen, > >it feels like linen, it's woven like linen, it burns like linen... > Something > >else I should try? Or should I be happy with that and rush to buy the roll > >next thing tomorrow morning? [:-)] Smell the fabric. Not the burned fabric, but the fabric on the roll. I haven't worked enough with linen to tell you for sure, but I know most fibers have a distinctive odor to them that you can recognize if you put the unwashed fabric close to your face and inhale deeply. There should be a difference between linen and any other fiber. >I found offwhite fabric that is exactly like that this past year at >Joannes and had the same experience. I did the burn test with washed and >unwashed swatches. Even split the threads up and tried that (all left that >black powdery ash). It does have the same hand that linen does, but the >wrinkles it gets when wadded up do not hold quite as crisply as linen, and >it is ever so slightly smoother or softer? (compared it to some real linen >I had on hand). I sadly suspect this is some Rayon or other man made fiber >from some natural product, that is a really good copy of linen. Softer-and-smoother sounds perhaps more like cotton? Or perhaps a silk-cotton or silk-linen blend? >As far as I know, the burn test can't be that far off, ... IIRC, someone on another list just ran into a really weird burn test result, due to the color treatment of the fabric in question. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 21:14:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09447 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:14:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H2GEtv027662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H2GCEM015962; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:16:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H2F4EM015651 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A712BC6400F4; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:14:42 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A71233E0146; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:14:42 -0600 Message-ID: <003201c2bdce$45e45620$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Agnes G" Cc: "h-costume" References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Re: Help dating a fashion plate Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:15:14 -0500 Status: RO Thanks Agnes! This was a big help. It was so sweet of you to put them up on the web for me to see. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Agnes G" To: ; Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: re: Help dating a fashion plate > I get the list in digest so this may be a little late but I think that is a > fashion from 1829, 1830 at the latest. > > I have posted a quick webpage with my images that I had here on my computer > from this era so you can see the ones I think are most similar to this > plate. I will take this page down later today so look at it quickly if this > is a period you care about. > > I have hundreds of images from 1800 to 1850 and these 3 are the closest. > > It's on my work website at : http://staff.washington.edu/gawne/ > so it can't stay up there too long. > > I hope this helps. > > Agnes > > --__--__-- > > > > Message: 4 > > From: "Penny Ladnier" > > To: "h-costume" > > Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:40:01 -0500 > > Subject: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate > > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > I am trying to date a group of fashion plates. If anyone could help I would > > really appreciate it. I have eight of these plates that all seem to be from > > the same year. > > http://www.costumegallery.com/FashionPlates/Romantic/dress2.jpg > > This plate is titled: > > Evening Dress > > expressly made for Ladies Magazine (pre-cursor to Godey's Magazine) > > > > If you think it is of a given time span, please explain why you think so. > > > > Penny Ladnier > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > http://www.costumegallery.com > > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > > > --__--__-- > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 22:14:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09691 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:14:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H3G2tv000568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H3G0EM004061; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H3FnEM003969 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:15:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0H3fMI3000584 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:41:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0H3fML0000582 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:41:22 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030116160913.MRWL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> <010b01c2bd9b$51d09580$4a734ed5@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <010b01c2bd9b$51d09580$4a734ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301162241.22188.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0H3FnEM003969 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:41:22 -0500 Status: RO On Thursday 16 January 2003 03:10 pm, Melanie Wilson wrote: > >I'm confused? How can you weave something into that shape? > > I'm confused too gow can you and the ones we have bought are British MOD > issue and about 7 pounds IMR I don't know how authoritative this is, but in the text on his site describing the Glengarry Cap pattern, MoiRandall says "Unlike commercially made glengarrys (which are made of knit hoods shaped over a wooden block), the Randwulf's Glengarry pattern shows you how to form the distinct crown shape with seams using an ordinary sewing machine." -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 16 23:00:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09826 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:00:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H421tv002750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H4208b017223; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H41r8b017142 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:01:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0H4RRI3000790 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:27:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0H4RRuN000788 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:27:27 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Help dating a fashion plate User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301162327.27352.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0H41r8b017142 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:27:27 -0500 Status: RO On Thursday 16 January 2003 02:59 pm, Agnes G wrote: > I get the list in digest so this may be a little late but I think that is a > fashion from 1829, 1830 at the latest. I agree, in part because of the shortness of the skirt (if memory serves, skirts tended to run to ankle-length or so in the late 20s, and got longer again in the early thirties. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 01:49:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10441 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:49:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H6p3tv009291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H6p08b002849; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H6oZ8b002740 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:50:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-111-142.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.111.142]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id APA08765; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:51:45 GMT Message-ID: <00bf01c2bdf5$224e7700$8e6f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030116160913.MRWL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> <010b01c2bd9b$51d09580$4a734ed5@pavilion> <200301162241.22188.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:53:25 -0000 Status: RO >Unlike commercially made glengarrys (which are made of knit hoods shaped over a wooden block), A hood is a blank hat shape in wool felt you steam them and pull them over a wooden block, thinking more about it it is possible with a trilby & many other shapes so why not the Glen Garrie. To make one this way would be expensive though, because of getting the hat block. I've made a few hats this way but the hoods or capes are expensive generally. The only reasonably priced source I've found is a hat museum in France. They did have a web page I'll try & find it but I don't know if they do mail order. For one off buying would be much cheaper even at US prices :) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 01:53:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10448 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:53:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H6t1tv009381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H6t18b003715; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H6s98b003501 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:54:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-111-142.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.111.142]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id APA08823; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:55:26 GMT Message-ID: <00c401c2bdf5$a5f18020$8e6f4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030116160913.MRWL7656.out002.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> <010b01c2bd9b$51d09580$4a734ed5@pavilion> <200301162241.22188.cathy@thyrsus.com> <00bf01c2bdf5$224e7700$8e6f4ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] glengarry cap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:57:05 -0000 Status: RO Here is a US source which might be better for more of you http://www.hatsupply.com/woolfelts.htm Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 03:10:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15902 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 03:10:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H8C2tv011792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H8C08b022839; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from app2.nasc.inter.net (nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net [203.176.60.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0H8B18b022625 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 01:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip2-61.eyrkonaeac07.dialup.ca.telus.com ([209.29.93.61] helo=vienna.localdomain) by app2.nasc.inter.net with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 18ZRaY-0003fg-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 03:10:55 -0500 Received: from cedar by vienna.localdomain with local (Exim 3.35 #5 (Red Hat Linux)) id 18ZOfv-0000jP-00 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 00:04:15 -0500 From: Christine Robb To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20030117050415.GB1699@vienna.bellnexxia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [h-cost] Toronto, Canada : Feb 1&2, 2003 Victorian dancing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 00:04:15 -0500 Status: RO For those of you in or near Toronto, Ontario, Canada, here is an opportunity to dress in your Victorian finery. You could even wear two different period ensembles if you wanted to switch between halves of the evening dance! Christine ECD in TO http://www.interlog.com/~cedar ---------- VICTORIAN DANCE WEEKEND with CATHY STEPHENS February 1 and 2, Saturday and Sunday, 2003, Toronto, Ontario, Canada Cathy Stephens is Canada's foremost instructor, historian and authority for 19th century European and North American social dance. She is noted for her clear teaching style and for leading excellent and fun dances and balls. The Victorian Era (1840s to 1890s) is a high water mark in the history of social dance. The dances of this era are some of the most fun, elegant, romantic, spirited, joyful and playful social dances in history. SCHEDULE OF EVENTS * Daytime Dance Workshops on Saturday (10:30am - 5pm) and Sunday (11:30am - 4:30pm) taught by Cathy Stephens * Victorian Dance on Saturday evening (8pm - midnight) with Victorian Dance Mistress Cathy Stephens The first half of the dance will be mainly in an 1840s to 1860s theme, and the second half mainly in an 1890s theme. PERIOD ATTIRE at the Dance is admired but not required. Modern "dressy" attire is also perfectly acceptable. For more information, see the webpage: http://www.interlog.com/~cedar/v.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 11:23:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24679 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:23:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HGPAtv001196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:25:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HGP0Ji002432; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HGOPJi002035 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:24:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m8.in-tch.com [216.166.191.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GFa4914700 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:36:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E26D56D.2BD96D19@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Testing..... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:53:17 -0700 Status: RO Hey, what's up? I haven't had a message since early yesterday evening..... Is there anybody out there, or are y'all busy with...*gasp*....sewing? --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 11:34:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24746 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:34:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HGa2tv002166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HGa1Ji008151; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HGZ3Ji007618 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a261.in-tch.com [66.62.107.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0G4q0920937 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:52:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E263E77.434A1892@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Camicia/partlet? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114110819.00aabdd0@mail.attbi.com> <003b01c2bc01$f84780e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3.0.6.32.20030114141159.00c15040@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:09:11 -0700 Status: RO Embroidery. Somehow, I think he'd do lots and lots of embroidery....*sigh* And handmade lace, too. *double sigh* --sue Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > I don't know, I want to see what Bjarne can do with them, but at the same > time I don't want to see... because what he does will always be SO BEAUTIFUL > I won't have the heart to try for myself after seeing his work :-) > > Bjarne, you're an inspiration... > > From: "Margo Anderson" > > At 08:35 PM 01/14/2003 +0100, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > >Next year i want to order Margos Patterns and then i want to start > > >rennaissance................. > > > > I can't WAIT to see what you do with them, Bjarne! and Happy Birthday! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 12:20:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25030 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:20:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HHL2tv006097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HHL1Ji002831; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HHK9Ji002404 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.231]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BE6B05EEB34 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:20:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000e01c2be4c$fb6a12e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <3E26D56D.2BD96D19@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing..... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:22:15 +0100 Status: RO Hi! I wondered two, not much mail today. I am relaxing today and i am browsing Elizabeths Wardrobe Unlocked and figuring out wich style i want to make the renaissance dress in. Looked at Elizabeth R two and that wonderfull spanish style dress she wears might be the style i want to make. And you are right. I think it will be embellished with both embroidery and black linen lace. The Tudor Rose is definately going to be in the embroidery!!! Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:53 PM Subject: [h-cost] Testing..... > Hey, what's up? I haven't had a message since early yesterday > evening..... > Is there anybody out there, or are y'all busy with...*gasp*....sewing? > > --sue > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 12:32:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25240 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:31:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HHX2tv007278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HHX0Ji009239; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium.btinternet.com (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HHWuJi009198 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:32:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-8-137.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.8.137] helo=dan) by einsteinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18ZaMR-0002u4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:32:55 +0000 Message-ID: <005201c2be4f$0e007500$890824d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <3E26D56D.2BD96D19@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing..... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:37:06 -0000 Status: RO Sue wrote: > Hey, what's up? I haven't had a message since early yesterday > evening..... > Is there anybody out there Well, i just got a group of messages, but with the exception of your note it looks as if they were sent quite a while back... or are y'all busy with...*gasp*....sewing? > Actually, I have been trying to sew; there is a difference:-) If you, or anyone else, ever wishes to make one of the late 18th-early 19th century fur snakes, ask me about it first. I still haven't worked out how to do it well, but I can tell you a couple of ways of doing it badly... The snake and the muff have taken so long to do that constructing the gown itself looks as if it will probably be the easy part. As for the GFD needed to go under the houpelande under construction, I await my daughter having a day to spare to do the fitting of a toile. I am deeply envious of your hands-on experience with Robin in this, and grateful to you and others for getting the session together and the pictures up on the web so that I have a place to start. Actually, a furred houpelande is again, in some ways, easier than the GFD. Once you grasp that the pleats are largely dictated by the pelts beneath, a lot of the worries simply disappear. Of course, all attached linings radically alter the way the fabric behaves, but fur dominates almost all fabrics. yours, returning to the snake, Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 12:51:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25441 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:51:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HHr2tv008815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HHr1Ji019603; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HHqrJi019532 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:52:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27337 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:04:42 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <005201c2be4f$0e007500$890824d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Fitting the GFD Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:04:42 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > As for the GFD needed to go under the houpelande under construction, I > await my daughter having a day to spare to do the fitting of a toile. > I am deeply envious of your hands-on experience with Robin in this, > and grateful to you and others for getting the session together and > the pictures up on the web so that I have a place to start. Stevie, if you haven't already found it, you might want to check my collection of notes at http://www.netherton.net/robin . There's a set of my posts with fitting tips, and also a handout from my workshop. Not a how-to guide for beginners by any means, but lots of tips and shortcuts that an experienced costumer can put to use and possibly save some distress. Don't know how close you are to Teddy, but he reports having done successful fittings based on my notes, so there's at least one experienced fitter in your vicinity. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 13:02:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25473 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:02:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HI33tv009583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HI31Ji024985; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HI2lJi024884 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:02:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27389 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:14:37 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <005201c2be4f$0e007500$890824d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Fur linings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:14:36 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > ...a furred houpelande is again, in some ways, easier than the GFD. > Once you grasp that the pleats are largely dictated by the pelts > beneath, a lot of the worries simply disappear. Well, *that's* a leading statement if ever I've heard one. Tell, tell! And how does this relate to the several distinct pleat/fold/drape patterns you can see on houppelands in paintings? > Of course, all attached linings radically alter the way the fabric > behaves, but fur dominates almost all fabrics. This is something I've been wondering about. Obviously you have to use multiple pelts to line a large garment. So, are the pelts attached only to each other to form a "fabric," which just sits against the garment fabric on the inside with attachments only at neck and hem and maybe major seams, like any other lining? Or are they sewn singly to a "ground" lining, which is in turn attached to the main fabric? Or are they sewn individually to the main fabric -- in which case we would presumably see a quilting-like pattern of stitches on the main fabric? The latter puts me in mind of the van der Weyden painting of the Deposition, at the Prado, with the Magdalen wearing a kirtle with elaborate seaming that forms a sort of tiered, pieced patchwork on the skirt. We've discussed that at length here before, wondering why the skirt was cut in these zillions of pieces, and someone suggested that perhaps this was the pattern of stitching holding a fur lining in place. The stitches aren't at all in the shape of pelts -- they were tiers of trapezoids separated by long narrow strips -- but for all I know fur was cut into those shapes, or the fur was sewn into a solid piece that was then quilted to the main fabric using these straight lines. However, that's the only candidate I can think of that suggests a pattern of stitching that might be a lining attachment. Most pictures of houppelandes and other garments show no such lines, even if the garments are clearly fur-lined. Stevie, what type of fur are you using? And are you doing anything to trim it to a short level? If so, how? I've been thinking of doing something on this line myself; I have access to rabbit fur, but not much else. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 13:13:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25518 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HIE3tv010562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:14:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HIE1Ji001850; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HIDgJi001667 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:13:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27478 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:25:31 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] New book Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:25:31 -0600 (CST) Status: RO My textile-interested librarian friend passed me this cite. This is all I know, and I can't translate it either, but it's apparently something about medieval textiles. Susan Moller-Wiering, Segeltuch und Emballage: Textilien im mittelalterlichen Warentransport auf Nord- und Ostsee (Rahden: Vlg. Marie Leidorf, 2002. Euros 66.50/$67.00 --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 13:18:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25530 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HIK4tv011094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HIK0Ji005203; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail1.mackie.com [12.144.237.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HIJrJi005099 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:19:53 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New book-translated title Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] New book Thread-Index: AcK+VEfRyKzTbRAAQtSKgop/HWJy7gAAHzRA From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0HIJrJi005099 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:19:52 -0800 Status: RO Robin wrote: <> Here what Babelfish says the German means: Canvas and packing: Textiles in the medieval transport of goods on north and Baltic Sea Colleen (who is still waiting for her German language book on medieval Italian silk textiles) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 13:22:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25559 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:22:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HIO2tv011345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HIO1Ji007548; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HINCJi007104 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:23:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0HINB119439 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:23:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030117102217.00b9b648@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] New book In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_8166265==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 10:23:26 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_8166265==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:25 PM 1/17/2003 -0600, you wrote: >My textile-interested librarian friend passed me this cite. This is all I >know, and I can't translate it either, but it's apparently something about >medieval textiles. > >Susan Moller-Wiering, Segeltuch und Emballage: Textilien im >mittelalterlichen Warentransport auf Nord- und Ostsee (Rahden: Vlg. Marie >Leidorf, 2002. Euros 66.50/$67.00 > >--Robin Loosely translated: Canvas and packing (?): Textiles in the medieval transport of goods on north and Baltic Sea. Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_8166265==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 12:25 PM 1/17/2003 -0600, you wrote:

My textile-interested librarian friend passed me this cite. This is all I
know, and I can't translate it either, but it's apparently something about
medieval textiles.

Susan Moller-Wiering, Segeltuch und Emballage:  Textilien im
mittelalterlichen Warentransport auf Nord- und Ostsee (Rahden:  Vlg. Marie
Leidorf, 2002.  Euros 66.50/$67.00

--Robin

Loosely translated:
Canvas and packing (?):  Textiles in the medieval transport of goods on north and Baltic Sea.



Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_8166265==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 14:13:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25820 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:13:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HJF5tv016080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HJF1Ji006101; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxout2.cac.washington.edu (mxout2.cac.washington.edu [140.142.33.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HJEZJi005868 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:14:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9]) by mxout2.cac.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.12) with ESMTP id h0HJEXhi021297 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:14:34 -0800 Received: from UROPORTABLE (D-128-95-177-173.dhcp4.washington.edu [128.95.177.173]) by smtp.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.12) with SMTP id h0HJEXun002990 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:14:33 -0800 Message-ID: <008201c2be5c$8d41e5d0$adb15f80@UROPORTABLE> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: References: <003201c2bdce$45e45620$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Help dating a fashion plate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:13:43 -0800 Status: RO glad to oblige - I hope it helped. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Agnes G" Cc: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 6:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Help dating a fashion plate > Thanks Agnes! This was a big help. It was so sweet of you to put them up > on the web for me to see. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Agnes G" > To: ; > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 2:59 PM > Subject: re: Help dating a fashion plate > > > > I get the list in digest so this may be a little late but I think that is > a > > fashion from 1829, 1830 at the latest. > > > > I have posted a quick webpage with my images that I had here on my > computer > > from this era so you can see the ones I think are most similar to this > > plate. I will take this page down later today so look at it quickly if > this > > is a period you care about. > > > > I have hundreds of images from 1800 to 1850 and these 3 are the closest. > > > > It's on my work website at : http://staff.washington.edu/gawne/ > > so it can't stay up there too long. > > > > I hope this helps. > > > > Agnes > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > Message: 4 > > > From: "Penny Ladnier" > > > To: "h-costume" > > > Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:40:01 -0500 > > > Subject: [h-cost] Help dating a fashion plate > > > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > > > > I am trying to date a group of fashion plates. If anyone could help I > would > > > really appreciate it. I have eight of these plates that all seem to be > from > > > the same year. > > > http://www.costumegallery.com/FashionPlates/Romantic/dress2.jpg > > > This plate is titled: > > > Evening Dress > > > expressly made for Ladies Magazine (pre-cursor to Godey's Magazine) > > > > > > If you think it is of a given time span, please explain why you think > so. > > > > > > Penny Ladnier > > > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > > > http://www.costumegallery.com > > > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > > > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > > > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > > > > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 14:24:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25877 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:24:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HJP4tv016983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HJP0Ji011389; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0HJOrJi011335 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:24:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23719 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2003 19:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bookbusiness) (208.166.66.19) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2003 19:24:50 -0000 Message-ID: <008801c2be5e$1acd7170$1342a6d0@bookbusiness> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: <20030116080810.84365.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] important old master paintings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:24:48 -0500 Status: RO I just wish they gave dates, but I guess I'm pretty good nowadays at dating themaccording to costume :-) If you click on the artist's name and then scroll down through the description, most of the time a date is hiding in there. However, on Lot 72, I have trouble believing that this painting is from the late 1500's from her dress and belt. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 15:35:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26264 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:35:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HKb8tv022715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HKb1Ji019044; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HKaGJi018610 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:36:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-8-137.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.8.137] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18ZdDr-0002AN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:36:15 +0000 Message-ID: <007e01c2be68$aa90fca0$890824d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:40:26 -0000 Status: RO Robin wrote: > > ...a furred houpelande is again, in some ways, easier than the GFD. > > Once you grasp that the pleats are largely dictated by the pelts > > beneath, a lot of the worries simply disappear. > > Well, *that's* a leading statement if ever I've heard one. Tell, tell! Preamble: Fur was used universally in western europe through this period; what differed between social groupings was the type of fur used. So if I forget to add luxury to furs in a sentence, please do it for me. The luxury furs used in the, for want of a better term, houpelande period came from small densely furred animals which naturally enough produced small pelts, which required very large numbers to actually make much in the way of yardage. There were a lot of seams ... > And how does this relate to the several distinct pleat/fold/drape > patterns you can see on houppelands in paintings? There was, of course, some variance in size of the pelts used, both on the individual level and in different species. Those variations will affect the way in which the composite moves and drapes. The thing to note is that when pressure is applied to the composites, the most obviously by a belt, the vertical edges of the pelts will be defined. That produces pleats, even when the fur isn't caught through to the wool itself. > > > Of course, all attached linings radically alter the way the fabric > > behaves, but fur dominates almost all fabrics. > > This is something I've been wondering about. Obviously you have to use > multiple pelts to line a large garment. So, are the pelts attached only to > each other to form a "fabric," which just sits against the garment fabric > on the inside with attachments only at neck and hem and maybe major seams, > like any other lining? The luxury pelts such as squirrel were sold in blocks; the skins were sewn together in strips or rows called tiers or fessi, and several of these were joined together to give a rectangular shaped piece of material called a fur (or furrura, penula, penne, pane or mantle). The lining would most likely have had a mixture of skins, since the visible parts were almost always in a finer fur than the rest of it; the purfell of a garment. A gown might be lined with pured miniver, but trimmed with ermine; thus using 4 or 5 ermine skins and perhaps 800 squirrel. But the linings, made up of a mixture of pelts, were not simply attached at neck, hem or whatever. If they were then the layers would have sagged apart, which would have entirely ruined the effect. I suspect that the lining was attached in much the same way as very expensive curtains are interlined today; tiny stitches at large intervals, too small to be seen, which turn the curtain 'sandwich' into one unit. Or are they sewn singly to a "ground" lining, which > is in turn attached to the main fabric? Or are they sewn individually to > the main fabric -- in which case we would presumably see a quilting-like > pattern of stitches on the main fabric? No to both:-) If the lining did not extend all the way it would have been bound usually with fine leather, which again would have been caught to the fabric itself. > The latter puts me in mind of the van der Weyden painting of the > Deposition, at the Prado, with the Magdalen wearing a kirtle with > elaborate seaming that forms a sort of tiered, pieced patchwork on the > skirt. We've discussed that at length here before, wondering why the skirt > was cut in these zillions of pieces, and someone suggested that perhaps > this was the pattern of stitching holding a fur lining in place. The > stitches aren't at all in the shape of pelts -- they were tiers of > trapezoids separated by long narrow strips -- but for all I know fur was > cut into those shapes, or the fur was sewn into a solid piece that was > then quilted to the main fabric using these straight lines. I must be even more slow this evening than usual, because I can't see what you are referring to. The figure at the right on the Weyden Deposition in the Prado is certainly dressed bizarrely, but I can't see the zillions of pieces. Am I looking at the wrong painting, or the wrong person? > However, that's the only candidate I can think of that suggests a pattern > of stitching that might be a lining attachment. Most pictures of > houppelandes and other garments show no such lines, even if the garments > are clearly fur-lined. I wouldn't expect visible stitches -see above re luxury curtains:-) > Stevie, what type of fur are you using? And are you doing anything to trim > it to a short level? If so, how? I've been thinking of doing something on > this line myself; I have access to rabbit fur, but not much else. Squirrel. So far I haven't trimmed it, but most squirrel is relatively shorthaired; the longer hair versions are often dyed to resemble sable, which is fine with me for later periods. I've bought an alleged squirrel which I think is probably weasel, but that was extensively used also and it's even smaller than most squirrel is. If you bear in mind that vast numbers of pelts were used in clothing (and furnishings-counterpanes lined with squirrel were much in demand; Edward III possessed one made from 2240 pelts) then it becomes easier to comprehend the dominance of the fur in creating the look. And if you use squirrel it's a great deal easier to create the pleats; each pleat extends to one pelt. If you look at a squirrel jacket for sale on Ebay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15783&item=2804 455153&rd=1 it becomes, I hope, a lttle clearer. Rabbit is an abomination upon the face of the earth, but then I'm biased; I've been making a fur snake out of the wretched stuff, and nothing would ever persuade me to make another out of it. Squirrel is a delight to work with, and ermine would be delightful for your tippets. We can but dream... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 16:44:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26695 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:44:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HLj3tv028951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HLj1en025004; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HLi5en024465 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28354 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:55:55 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings In-Reply-To: <007e01c2be68$aa90fca0$890824d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:55:55 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > The thing to note is that when pressure is applied to the composites, > the most obviously by a belt, the vertical edges of the pelts will be > defined. That produces pleats, even when the fur isn't caught through > to the wool itself. OK, so what you're saying is that the width of the pelts -- which could be as narrow as an inch or two, based on that squirrel coat in ebay you pointed us to -- would generate the nice narrow parallel pleats under the belt, of the sort you see on, say Giovanna Arnolfini. Do I have that right? If so, that answers a mystery. I'm not so sure we can say the fur determines the *direction* of the folding over the entire front area (say, pointing to shoulder or arm or neck, in parallel or radiating or V-shape), which seems more to do with the curves and angles of the neck, shoulder, and arm cutting and the flare of the side seams, since I can generate those fold combinations even without fur. But the regularity of the pleats that form under the pressure of the belt ... yes, that makes sense that it's breaking naturally over the regularly spaced seams of the pelts. And it would certainly make it a lot less of a headache to replicate. While I can generally get the angles right, making the folds regular and evenly spaced is a struggle, and I've never held with the school of thought that insists they're sewn in place. > > The latter puts me in mind of the van der Weyden painting of the > > Deposition, at the Prado, with the Magdalen wearing a kirtle with > > elaborate seaming that forms a sort of tiered, pieced patchwork on the > > skirt. We've discussed that at length here before, wondering why the > > skirt was cut in these zillions of pieces, and someone suggested that > > perhaps this was the pattern of stitching holding a fur lining in > > place. The stitches aren't at all in the shape of pelts -- they were > > tiers of trapezoids separated by long narrow strips -- but for all I > > know fur was cut into those shapes, or the fur was sewn into a solid > > piece that was then quilted to the main fabric using these straight > > lines. > I must be even more slow this evening than usual, because I can't see > what you are referring to. The figure at the right on the Weyden > Deposition in the Prado is certainly dressed bizarrely, but I can't > see the zillions of pieces. Am I looking at the wrong painting, or the > wrong person? You are probably looking at the wrong reproduction. I have seen the seam lines in person, on the painting itself, and they are visible in the slides I took on the spot, and in perhaps one or two good reproductions I have in books. I cannot see them on any online versions of this image, or in most printed reproductions. Forgive my hyperbole of "zillions," which was misleading, but "dozens" would certainly be accurate. Here's a conversation we had on the list a while ago, which includes the description I wrote of the skirt seams (on a thread called "van der Weden sleeves" from January 2000). Forgive the long quoted section; I'm combining quotes from several posts here, and snipping a lot of extraneous stuff. ---the quoted conversation starts here--- [Robin:] ...The aforementioned Magdalen at the Prado has a waist seam, but the skirt that is set into it is pieced of geometric shapes -- the uppermost section of the skirt looks to be made in a row of trapezoids designed to shape the skirt over the swell of the hips. The upper edge of the skirt is attached to the waist seam flat, not gathered. [Cynthia:] > One of the Deposition from the Cross skirts (green, on the righthand > side) almost looks like it's pleated into the waist. Maybe. [Robin:] > If you're speaking of the Descent from the Cross, this is the one I > was referring to. Magdalen is wearing a pale-mossy green dress with > added red sleeves, and is in side view on the right. It's one of the > Prado's most important medieval pieces. I had to see it in person to > be sure it was not pleated, just seamed, as reproductions are > ambiguous -- as you noticed! There are also other seams lower down in > the skirt, quite unusual. [Teddy:] > I'd agree with Robin on this one. From looking at this one (on the web > so I may be missing details) it looks to me as if there's a "waist" > seam at the back of the dress (under the belt) and a flared skirt > sewn to it - the flare of the skirt piece causes it to fall in those > folds that look like spaced pleats... again, that's just *my* take on > it. [Robin:] > And this is why reproductions can be so misleading... I am looking at > two reproductions right now, and one of them looks as Teddy described. > > The other, closer up and in better color, reveals this: There is a > waist seam at the natural waist, above the belt, with a pieced skirt > set into it flat (no gathers or pleats). Below the waist (about two > inches below at the back) is draped a separate mantle of > almost-but-not-quite the same greyish-green. This forms the folds that > Teddy is referring to. The mantle is folded over at the top, and that > fold is what Teddy saw as a seam. I suspect that Teddy can't see *any* > of the real skirt seams in the image he was looking at. > > The mantle falls over her left hip and leg. At the bottom of the > image, you can see that the skirt has a grey fur border about a foot > wide; the mantle falling over it does not. > > In front, under pressure of the belt, the skirt does fall into folds, > but these are indeed folds generated from a flare, not originating > with a pleat. > > You can see this much from two facing-page images in one excellent > book: _Prado Madrid_, part of the "Newsweek Great Museums of the > World" series. I have several books in this series, all very pretty. > They are on the shelves of MANY used book stores -- look in the > oversize art sections. I paid only $7.50 for my Prado book, and the > closeup of the Magdalen's torso is worth that alone. > > For the seams in the rest of the skirt, I had to go to Madrid: > > [Quoting Teddy] > The other seams on the skirt don't show up in the web > version of the picture, Robin... Could it be that the skirt was > "pieced" together from smaller pieces of cloth? > > It sure looks that way. But the piecing looks intentional -- it's very > regular, like an elaborate patchwork. It doesn't look like the piecing > you'd do if you were short on fabric. Maybe it was done for shaping. > It consists of four narrow horizontal strips, spaced in tiers, > separating five taller areas made up of rectangualr (actually slightly > trapezoidal) panels. In the top row of panels (which is set into the > waist seam), there are six panels, each maybe two inches wide and four > inches tall, visible along her left upper hip. At lower levels, the > panels are wider and taller. > > In the front, the skirt (and presumably bodice) is fastened with a > cord laced through sewn-on rings. The cord goes through every other > ring on each side, making a zigzag pattern. The rings are sewn to a > panel of the skirt that is is a vertical strip an inch or two wide; it > is longer than the other panels in the top row. > > The Prado book only shows the top row of panels; the other seams > farther down are not visible. ---quoted section ends here--- Looking back at the shapes here, I would think the panels are not related to pelt shapes, as the trapezoids become larger in lower tiers, as would make sense for the flare of the skirt, not some piecing of regular pelts. But it could be that it's all an elaborate quilting of the fur lining to the skirt fabric. > And if you use squirrel it's a great deal easier to create the pleats; > each pleat extends to one pelt. If you look at a squirrel jacket for > sale on Ebay at > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15783&item=2804 > 455153&rd=1 > > it becomes, I hope, a lttle clearer. Yes, that does help. And the jacket is cheap. A good buy, do you think, for reclaiming the fur? Where did you get your squirrel? Squirrels are hated around here, but it's illegal to kill them. When we had them in our attic, we had to get a special exterminator to trap them and release them in a rural area. > ... and ermine would be delightful for your tippets. We can but > dream... Yeah. Ermine, right. I have less call even for squandering cash on luxury furs or fabrics because I don't even have a reason to wear the things I make; I sew just to see how the constructions work out. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 18:26:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27152 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:26:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HNS3tv007651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HNS1en016322; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0HNRcen016114 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:27:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-8-137.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.8.137] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Zfth-0007FJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:27:37 +0000 Message-ID: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:31:48 -0000 Status: RO Robin wrote: > > The thing to note is that when pressure is applied to the composites, > > the most obviously by a belt, the vertical edges of the pelts will be > > defined. That produces pleats, even when the fur isn't caught through > > to the wool itself. > > OK, so what you're saying is that the width of the pelts -- which could be > as narrow as an inch or two, based on that squirrel coat in ebay you > pointed us to -- would generate the nice narrow parallel pleats under the > belt, of the sort you see on, say Giovanna Arnolfini. Do I have that > right? Yes. > If so, that answers a mystery. I'm not so sure we can say the fur > determines the *direction* of the folding over the entire front area (say, > pointing to shoulder or arm or neck, in parallel or radiating or V-shape), > which seems more to do with the curves and angles of the neck, shoulder, > and arm cutting and the flare of the side seams, since I can generate > those fold combinations even without fur. But the regularity of the pleats > that form under the pressure of the belt ... yes, that makes sense that > it's breaking naturally over the regularly spaced seams of the pelts. And > it would certainly make it a lot less of a headache to replicate. While I > can generally get the angles right, making the folds regular and evenly > spaced is a struggle, and I've never held with the school of thought that > insists they're sewn in place. The only thing that I would add here is that there is a strong vertical pressure from the pelts which does alter folds in other directions; the angles may not work in quite the way you envisage with that addition. Thank you for the info on the Deposition; snipped and saved! I will try and track down a decent reproduction to follow this up. > > And if you use squirrel it's a great deal easier to create the pleats; > > each pleat extends to one pelt. If you look at a squirrel jacket for > > sale on Ebay at > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15783&item=2804 > > 455153&rd=1 > > > > it becomes, I hope, a lttle clearer. > > Yes, that does help. And the jacket is cheap. A good buy, do you think, > for reclaiming the fur? If it stays anything like that cheap, yes! Prices can get quite high for squirrel, but there are a fair number around so it's worth a search every now and then. > > Where did you get your squirrel? Ebay! Buying fur in England is almost impossible, so Ebay it has to be. Grey squirrel is rare, but if anyone wants to mimic the *look* of the grey fur then they could buy the cutter craft blue mist muskrat coats which come up fairly often on Ebay and shear the brown fur ends off. best wishes Stevie, returning to that dratted rabbit... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 19:15:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27258 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:15:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0H8tv011218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0H1en008240; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0Glen008149 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:16:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18ZgfG-0005hG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:16:46 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000301c2be86$ed16ba60$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> Subject: [h-cost] The Deposition by Van der Weyden-curious: was Fur linings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:17:02 -0700 Status: RO > > The latter puts me in mind of the van der Weyden painting of the > > Deposition, at the Prado, with the Magdalen wearing a kirtle with > > elaborate seaming that forms a sort of tiered, pieced patchwork on > > the skirt. We've discussed that at length here before, wondering why > > the skirt was cut in these zillions of pieces, and someone suggested > > that perhaps this was the pattern of stitching holding a fur lining > > in place. The stitches aren't at all in the shape of pelts -- they > > were tiers of trapezoids separated by long narrow strips -- but for > > all I know fur was cut into those shapes, or the fur was sewn into a > > solid piece that was then quilted to the main fabric using these > > straight lines. What am I missing?-I guess I don't see which gown is being discussed. Could someone set me straight? http://www.abcgallery.com/W/weyden/weyden1.html Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 19:17:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27262 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:17:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0J1tv011375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0J0en009093; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0IMen008772 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:18:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.e.2b7c3875 (16930) for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:18:14 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e.2b7c3875.2b59f746_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Subject: [h-cost] New Member Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:18:14 EST Status: RO --part1_e.2b7c3875.2b59f746_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I should probably delurk for my own good, seeing as how historical costumes will be my primary focus for the next three months. So, hi there! My name is Christine, and I'm a fairly inexperienced seamstress hailing from the New York area. I'm planning to attend CostumeCon in April, and that is what has brought me to this list: I'll be making at least two costumes, and the two "definite" costumes are both historical. One piece will be from about 1350, and the second will be from the Roaring 20's. If anyone has a suggestion for a historically accurate surcoat pattern (other than the suggestion to draft one myself), feel free to chime in, as I'm told that in order to compete, I'll need to make sure that my piece is historically accurate. Christine --part1_e.2b7c3875.2b59f746_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I should probably delurk for my own good, seeing as how historical costumes will be my primary focus for the next three months.  So, hi there!  My name is Christine, and I'm a fairly inexperienced seamstress hailing from the New York area.  I'm planning to attend CostumeCon in April, and that is what has brought me to this list: I'll be making at least two costumes, and the two "definite" costumes are both historical.  One piece will be from about 1350, and the second will be from the Roaring 20's.  If anyone has a suggestion for a historically accurate surcoat pattern (other than the suggestion to draft one myself), feel free to chime in, as I'm told that in order to compete, I'll need to make sure that my piece is historically accurate. 

Christine --part1_e.2b7c3875.2b59f746_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 19:22:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27281 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:22:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0M2tv011563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0M2en010434; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0LUen010172 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:21:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28927 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:33:21 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings In-Reply-To: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:33:21 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote: > The only thing that I would add here is that there is a strong > vertical pressure from the pelts which does alter folds in other > directions; the angles may not work in quite the way you envisage with > that addition. Good point. There are enough variations that I'd have to play with each. On Giovanna Arnolfini, I can see how the pattern of folds -- sort of a sunburst or fan shape radiating from the center front under the belt -- could have started as parallels, and the fan shape created by drawing some to the center front, but that would also require the curves in the cut of the shoulder and arm areas that I'm thinking of to allow for the fabric to be drawn forward. So I don't see a conflict there (but I'd have to try it to be sure). Other fold patterns might be less conducive to working out as a set of parallels, but then, not *all* gowns were lined in fur; a summerweight gown might be lined in silk, for instance, and a middle-class version might not have the full fur lining. Even with the strong presence of fur, there's plenty of documentary evidence for garments lined in silk or linen, so some images and construction methods would not be fur-dependent. It may be that some of the visual differences reflect the same construction done with vs. without fur. Do you find that the seams of the pelts create ridges that would show underneath the wool? I haven't seen those ... on Giovanna, again to take the convenient example (I can bet nearly everyone has access to a good repro), the fabric is pressed pretty flat over the protrusion of the bosom, but no signs of ridges that I can see. Failing having actual fur, what do you think might work as an approximation to achieve the same responses in a lining? e.g. something heavy with quilting in patterns imitating pelt sizes/shapes to encourage creases to fall in certain spots? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 19:35:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27347 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:35:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0b2tv012426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0b0en016111; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0I0a4en015660 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCl9LD12eDx09GZDH2hLMmloQODwt90rFXA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HNR2EX56; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:35:06 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member Message-ID: <20030117.183240.-636831.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-16 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:32:39 -0600 Status: RO I'm sure that Robin can give a re-cap of her research into sideless surcotes (or you could come to her lecture series at Costume Con, but that might be a bit late!), but you can enter anything with a historical basis in the Historical Masquerade. Winning an award at the Historical Masquerade is what will require historical accuracy. There will be a workmanship judge and your research and documentation will be reviewed during the general judging process. Don't forget that there will be three level of competition- novice, journeyman, and master- and the criteria for a novice level entry is much more forgiving than the criteria for a master level entry. Everybody come to Costume Con!!! We'll have a fabulous time! Karen Programming Chair Costume Con 21 ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 19:38:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27364 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:38:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0e2tv012546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0e1en017186; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I0deen017025 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28992 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:51:31 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Deposition by Van der Weyden-curious: was Fur linings In-Reply-To: <000301c2be86$ed16ba60$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:51:31 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > What am I missing?-I guess I don't see which gown is being discussed. > Could someone set me straight? > > http://www.abcgallery.com/W/weyden/weyden1.html Magdalen, at the far right. Green gown with wide fur border at the hem, red pin-on sleeves, grey mantle draped over her left hip. The mantle partly obscures the skirt, but you can see it on her right leg all the way to the bottom. But you won't see any seams on this image, or probably on any online image. Get to a library and look up the book I mentioned earlier, for at least a taste of the seaming. Bear in mind that the original painting is HUGE, and a lot of detail is lost in the miniaturization. Most people looking at the seams focus on the bodice, which has an elaborate seam pattern that has inspired much theorizing. I find the skirt as interesting, but no one talks about it, maybe because it's not easily found in reproduction. I got my first detailed look in person, and took slides and made sketches. I know most people can't get to Madrid on a whim, but if you find yourself near Tournai (Belgium), look in the art museum and see if they still have the van der Weyden exhibit up. When I was there about 10 years ago, there was an exhibit with full-size photoreproductions of most of his paintings, as he was a local boy originally, though he did the vast majority of work after he got out of town. There is, otherwise, little in Tournai to see from a medievalist's standpoint: a nice archaeology museum that gets little notice or respect, the Cathedral treasury, and the tapestry museum that is entirely modern except for the four or five medieval tapestries that are all that remain in the city of its once-great tapestry industry. When I saw them they were being exhibited in abominable conditions and I do not expect them to survive long. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 20:05:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27484 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:05:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I173tv014197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I170en026787; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0I16Cen026528 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12464 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2003 01:05:55 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2003 01:05:55 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-179.sonic.net [209.148.112.179]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h0I15mk24725 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:05:48 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3E28A883.9050708@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What'd you get for Christmas? References: <3.0.6.32.20021226135728.0086abf0@pop.directcon.net> <3E0B919A.90808@misc.com> <3E0B989D.AF8C432A@lavoltapress.com> <3E175983.2020509@misc.com> In-Reply-To: <3E175983.2020509@misc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:06:11 -0800 Status: RO BTW, I went last week and bought the rest of the bolt! It was the best fabric there. Thanks, Fran Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Fran- > > At Norman Bernie's, in Burlingame, on Rollins Road. --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 20:37:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27558 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:37:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I1d2tv015748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I1d1en006793; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I1cben006632 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:38:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I1gHmm019508 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:42:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3E28B045.5080200@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What'd you get for Christmas? References: <3.0.6.32.20021226135728.0086abf0@pop.directcon.net> <3E0B919A.90808@misc.com> <3E0B989D.AF8C432A@lavoltapress.com> <3E175983.2020509@misc.com> <3E28A883.9050708@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:39:17 -0800 Status: RO To Fran- Congratulations!!!! I'd been longing for this fabric for about 3 years. BTW, in a little side room, there was another silk embroidered in butterflies that is also very charming. Doesn't seem to you that Elizabethan costuming could be accomplished here? Also, some very wonderful brocades for 18c sacque-back gowns. Gawd, the giant sucking sound is my husband's bank account wheezing from the outflow!!! Theresa Eacker Lavolta Press wrote: > BTW, I went last week and bought the rest of the bolt! It was the best > fabric there. > > Thanks, > > Fran > > Theresa Eacker wrote: > >> To Fran- >> >> At Norman Bernie's, in Burlingame, on Rollins Road. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 20:48:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27598 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:48:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I1o2tv016266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I1o1en010026; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0I1nKen009854 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:49:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21201 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2003 01:49:20 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2003 01:49:20 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-202.sonic.net [209.148.112.202]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h0I1nJS20966 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:49:19 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3E28B2B6.3090004@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What'd you get for Christmas? References: <3.0.6.32.20021226135728.0086abf0@pop.directcon.net> <3E0B919A.90808@misc.com> <3E0B989D.AF8C432A@lavoltapress.com> <3E175983.2020509@misc.com> <3E28A883.9050708@lavoltapress.com> <3E28B045.5080200@misc.com> In-Reply-To: <3E28B045.5080200@misc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:49:42 -0800 Status: RO Theresa Eacker wrote: > To Fran- > > Congratulations!!!! I'd been longing for this fabric for about 3 years. They'd _had_ the bolt for three years? Or do they restock the same fabrics regularly? > BTW, in a little side room, there was another silk embroidered in > butterflies that is also very charming. Doesn't seem to you that > Elizabethan costuming could be accomplished here? Also, some very > wonderful brocades for 18c sacque-back gowns. They had some nice floral-and-striped upholstery brocades. I was a bit divided about their stock in general. Their home-dec emphasis means a lot of heavy weight stuff. Sometimes it's hard to get a brocade any other way though. BTW, have you ever been to a store called, I think, Discount Fabrics on I think, Ashby and San Pablo in Berkeley? It's similar, though with more plain fabrics and more clothing weights. Some of their prices are really good. Last time I was there they had some nice embroidered voiles, probably meant for drapes, but which would work for sheer Victorian dresses. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 17 23:10:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28032 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:10:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I4C7tv022218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:12:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I4C1en019018; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0I4B0en018743 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:11:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030118041100.93377.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:00 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:00 +1100 (EST) Status: RO Hi all, I'm just now going through all the wonderful images from this auction catalogue - wow! I was wondering what the red jacket-like garment worn by this lady is called, and is she from the late 18th or early 19th century? Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 00:18:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28191 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:18:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I5K2tv024789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I5K1en006203; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I5JDen006014 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:19:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29827 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:31:05 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:31:04 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > I'm planning to attend CostumeCon in April, and that is what has > brought me to this list: I'll be making at least two costumes, and the > two "definite" costumes are both historical. One piece will be from > about 1350, and the second will be from the Roaring 20's. If anyone > has a suggestion for a historically accurate surcoat pattern (other > than the suggestion to draft one myself), feel free to chime in, as > I'm told that in order to compete, I'll need to make sure that my > piece is historically accurate. If you've never done medieval clothing, I'm afraid you'll find it hard to gain the basic knowledge you'll need for creating something close to historically accurate in three months. Sewing methods and materials at that time were drastically different from modern, and people who do serious work in this area generally find they have to re-learn much of what they know about handling fabric in order to move away from the "modern interpretation" of medieval. It can take a lot of study and experimentation to figure out how to make things work right and look right -- or even what "right" means, because you need to train your eye as well as your hands and brain. I'm still learning, and I've been at it for 25 years. On the other hand, that doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it -- just that you'll need to be aware of what you can accomplish within your time limitations, and set your sights accordingly. As Karen said, there are several categories for entries -- go for novice -- and I believe there's also a distinction between "historical reproduction" and "historically inspired." If I understand the rules, you want the latter, which means you'd be aiming to achieve a *visually* historic look, and you're not required to use historically accurate techniques to achieve it. You also don't need to have historically accurate materials, undergarments, etc., which would probably be a bit much to bite off at this point. Given that goal: there are a handful of books with theatrical-based patterns for medieval clothing, including surcotes (Hill and Bucknell, Iris Brooke, others). I know of no source -- book or pattern -- that produces a historically accurate sideless surcote, so it's reasonable that a novice seeking a "historically inspired" costume source would be on solid ground to use one of the modern patterns despite their flaws. You'll get the general idea of the look, at least. (Avoid Peacock. His surcotes are wretched.) For more inspiration, look to artwork, not costume books, and train your eye to what's really from the period. Hit the oversize shelves at the library for coffee-table books on art and history of this period. Look for illustrated books about famous people of this time (e.g. Chaucer), events (e.g. the Hundred Years War), rulers (the particular kings of your target place/time), culture (life in a medieval castle/village, medieval trades, tournaments), art (esp. manuscripts), etc. Once you find a few useful call numbers, you'll find the books grouped together on the shelves. Get the look of the real art in your head, find some images of costumes that please you, and copy the headdress, colors, accessories, etc. from those. Xerox them for your documentation. Oh -- make sure the dates on your images are from the same time/place slice, as styles changed rather quickly in the 14th century. And avoid saints, religious figures, angels, and allegorical figures. Bear in mind that many of the women pictured will be queens, and dressed royally -- which may be what you go for, but don't confuse the royals with the non-royals. (Hint: You're most likely to find sideless surcotes on women of royal blood, particularly if they're the kind with fur.) And as Linda said: If you want chapter and verse on surcotes -- how they developed, who wore them and when, how they might have been made -- I'll be lecturing on that topic at CostumeCon. I can't teach it by email, I'm afraid. I'll also be giving another lecture about the Gothic fitted dress, which goes *under* the surcote. Too late for your use in preparing for CostumeCon, but if you're still interested in the topic by the time you get there, please come by. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 02:26:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA09368 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 02:26:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I7S4tv011467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I7S1eb011650; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (h-66-134-203-2.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.134.203.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I7RVeb011564 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:27:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from misc.com (mac.misc.com [192.168.254.109]) by misc.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I7VDmm031519 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:31:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3E29020C.2010604@misc.com> From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What'd you get for Christmas? References: <3.0.6.32.20021226135728.0086abf0@pop.directcon.net> <3E0B919A.90808@misc.com> <3E0B989D.AF8C432A@lavoltapress.com> <3E175983.2020509@misc.com> <3E28A883.9050708@lavoltapress.com> <3E28B045.5080200@misc.com> <3E28B2B6.3090004@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:28:12 -0800 Status: RO To Fran: > They'd _had_ the bolt for three years? Or do they restock the same > fabrics regularly? They restock. About 1 1/2 years ago that silk sold out briefly and they refilled the order fairly quickly. >BTW, have you ever been to a store called, I think, Discount Fabrics on > I think, Ashby and San Pablo in Berkeley? It's similar, though with > more plain fabrics and more clothing weights. Some of their prices are > really good. Last time I was there they had some nice embroidered > voiles, probably meant for drapes, but which would work for sheer > Victorian dresses. Oh, goody, another store to snoop around. Thanks for the new lead!!! Theresa Eacker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 03:08:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA03831 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 03:08:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I8A2tv014552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 01:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I8A1eb020499; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 01:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0I89leb020456 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 01:09:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.188]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8W003DEHC8WM@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:09:47 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030117225843.051a5a30@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:06:06 -0800 Status: RO > as I'm told that in order to compete, I'll need to make sure that my > piece is historically accurate. There used to be two different ways to go into historical competition. Assuming the following is still true, there will be historical re-creation, what I call the '3-D Xerox school of thought', and historical interpretation, what I call the 'take an idea and run with it' school of thought. The book 'The Costume Maker's Art' has several examples of both kinds of historicals. Historical re-creation is just what you heard - as authentic as possible, scholarly footnotes please. I've seen some pretty amazing things go on into this category, including months of killer embroidery, many yards of hand-painted silk fabric, whole outfits entirely hand-stitched, etc., in the pursuit of theoretical perfection. FYI, they usually run these competitions in three divisions, which amount to beginner, intermediate, and advanced (sometimes mistakenly called 'pro'), plus a children's division if there are kids. This way beginners are only judged against beginners, etc. If your goal is authentic, I'd enter here, in the beginner's division. Many people differ in their interpretation of what an interpretation is. I've seen re-enactors put their most authentic garb into this, on the assumption that it was 'only an interpretation'. OTOH, I've seen some truly wacked interpretations, done for the sake of humor, like the lady who postulated what Marie Antoinette would have looked like if her dress maker had gone Biker-Punk. The documentation on that outfit was amazingly thorough, so the creator would not miss a single opportunity to do things "wrong". (The hair was the perfect style, but had a Harley in it, the black leather jacket said 'let them eat cake' on the back in rhinestones, etc..) Then there are the Workmanship Awards. These are the up-close craftsmanship awards, which, in a convention full of costume makers, are pretty significant awards. These recognize outstanding examples of pattern-making, beading, embroidery, etc. Workmanship judging is optional for the entrants, and no 'points' are lost if one skips the workmanship judging entirely. I have been a historical masquerade judge three times at CostumeCons, and compete in the advanced division, but am proudest of my workmanship awards because I think they are the hardest to get. But many beginners have won these, and many in the advanced division have not. Then there are Hall Costume Awards, given to folks seen around the halls of the convention facility, not in the big costume shows. The incognito judges find the best costumes they can find, and give them award ribbons impromptu. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 05:20:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08155 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:20:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IAM5tv019293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 03:22:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IAM3eb012928; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 03:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IALLeb012800 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 03:21:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-105-84.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.105.84]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOP57553; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:18:30 GMT Message-ID: <009501c2bedb$a26c0a60$54694ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:23:24 -0000 Status: RO >Ebay! Buying fur in England is almost impossible, so Ebay it has to be. Grey squirrel is rare, but if anyone wants to mimic the *look* of the grey fur then they could buy the cutter craft blue mist muskrat coats which come up fairly often on Ebay and shear the brown fur ends off. There are a few places, but it tend to be over expensive :( I've worked with rabbit it was OK Do you happen to have the refs for your fur lining info please ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 06:18:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08281 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:18:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IBK3tv020478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 04:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IBK1eb026573; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 04:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IBJoeb026512 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 04:19:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from p221-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.221] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Zr0u-0004m4-00; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:19:48 +1300 Message-ID: <006301c2bee3$827fc360$ddc0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030118041100.93377.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:19:46 +1300 Status: RO > I was wondering what the red jacket-like garment worn > by this lady is called, and is she from the late 18th > or early 19th century? > Late 18th, probably around 1790? Waistline is still low but the sleeves are plain and tight and long and her hair is in the loose casual style but with long defalted ringlets.. not my area of expertise, but I'd be surprised if it was ater that the early 90s.. though the very round breasts are giving me a bit of pause for thought... as in how very defined they are. Looks softer less fullt han what I think of the 1780s as.... michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 08:22:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08641 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:22:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IDO2tv023381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IDO0eb019749; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IDNbeb019683 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:23:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.111] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A3983B6025E; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:16:08 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c2bef5$4b8d1f80$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Subject: Fw: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:27:04 -0500 Status: RO I think this picture has to be about 1835 It is hard to see the bodice of the gown. If you consider the dates of the artist, that would help to pinpoint the time. As for the red wrap, my guess is that it is a stole in velvet and fur. If you recall the mink stoles of the mid 20th century, you will have the shape. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bella" To: Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction > Hi all, > > I'm just now going through all the wonderful images > from this auction catalogue - wow! > > I was wondering what the red jacket-like garment worn > by this lady is called, and is she from the late 18th > or early 19th century? > > > > > Bella > > http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies > - What's on at your local cinema? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 08:42:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08790 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:42:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IDi6tv023794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IDi4eb023597; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IDhSeb023449 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.111] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A8413F1025E; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:36:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c2bef8$1368d740$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2BECE.289B4500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] sotherby's auction Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:46:57 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2BECE.289B4500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looking at the hair style certainly places the picture before the 1830s, = and with the intervening styles of the Napoleonic era, it has to be = before nineteen hundred. The volume of the skirt is too much for the = later period now that I view it again. The mode as inspired by David = could account for the plainness of the ornamentation of the gown as = presented, although this would be an early example of the Greek revival = style. The picture puts me in the mind of a Gainsborough. = = = Kathleen (who is still waking up) = =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2BECE.289B4500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Looking at the hair style certainly places the = picture before=20 the 1830s, and with the intervening styles of the Napoleonic era, it has = to be=20 before  nineteen hundred.  The volume of the skirt is too = much=20 for the later period now that I view it again. The mode as inspired = by=20 David could account for the plainness of the ornamentation of the gown = as=20 presented, although this would be an early example of the Greek revival = style.=20 The picture puts me in the mind of a Gainsborough.   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 Kathleen (who is still waking up)       =20             =    =20             =    =20            =20  
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2BECE.289B4500-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 09:44:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09080 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:44:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IEk3tv025835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IEk1eb006637; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IEjLeb006557 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18ZuDo-0003oJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:45:21 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000001c2bf00$42c3f940$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Working woman's -Italian-was: Italian Camicia/partlet? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:45:30 -0700 Status: RO Thank you for pointing us to these. I love the detail. Is anyone aware of another Italian artist who does this genre of painting? Sg > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/c/campi/vincenzo/index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 10:40:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09370 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:40:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IFg2tv028267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IFg0Hi019761; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IFf9Hi019566 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:41:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-19-84.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.19.84] helo=dan) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Zv5m-0005wd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:41:06 +0000 Message-ID: <002e01c2bf08$9a4434c0$541327d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> <009501c2bedb$a26c0a60$54694ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:45:18 -0000 Status: RO Mel wrote: > Do you happen to have the refs for your fur lining info please ? > Indeed; I gave these references a little while ago in the discussion on Robin's tippets: Elspeth Veale's The English Fur Trade in the Later Middle Ages.' Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1966 'Fur in dress', by Elizabeth Ewing, Batsford, London, 1981. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 11:19:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09544 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:19:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IGL1tv029789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IGL0Hi029350; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IGKFHi029155 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:20:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m4.in-tch.com [216.166.191.4]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0IG3er13774 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:03:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E297EE7.C725C4D0@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:20:55 -0700 Status: RO Wouldn't that depend on the type of seams used? I'm not a fur person (outside of dealing with 4 living cats on a daily basis ), but what if you, say, trimmed the fur real short near the edge of each skin, and then overlapped two edges to sew them together? Heck, if you were being really finicky, you could even trim one edge, but not the other, which could give you close to the same "thickness" right over the seam..... Maybe you could use a fake fur, appropriately trimmed and cut into pelt-sized pieces, to try the fur lining? My cats have (rather helpfully) suggested leaving the garment out on the couch until they sit on it long enough to add a layer of their own, but somehow , I don't think that's what you had in mind! --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > Do you find that the seams of the pelts create ridges that would show > underneath the wool? I haven't seen those ... on Giovanna, again to take > the convenient example (I can bet nearly everyone has access to a good > repro), the fabric is pressed pretty flat over the protrusion of the > bosom, but no signs of ridges that I can see. > > Failing having actual fur, what do you think might work as an > approximation to achieve the same responses in a lining? e.g. something > heavy with quilting in patterns imitating pelt sizes/shapes to encourage > creases to fall in certain spots? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 11:37:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09596 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:37:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IGb1tv000703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IGb0Hi003259; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IGasHi003200 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:36:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8X004W04SZMX@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:36:46 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell In-reply-to: <20030117182400.7538.50845.Mailman@net.indra.com> X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030118112719.00b05a00@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fur linings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:36:06 -0500 Status: RO On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:14:36 -0600 (CST), Robin Netherton wrote: >The latter puts me in mind of the van der Weyden painting of the >Deposition, at the Prado, with the Magdalen wearing a kirtle with >elaborate seaming that forms a sort of tiered, pieced patchwork on the >skirt. I'm trying to see this "patchwork" you're talking about, and missing it utterly... Am I looking at the correct image? (Web Gallery of Art, or p. 338 of _The Prado_, Santiago Alcolea Branch, Abradale Press/Harry N. Abrams, ISBN 0-8109-8147-5)? If so, which figure are you talking about? The one in olive, on the left, supporting the Virgin, with the cut-velvet undergarment and fur-lined houpe? The one on the right, with what looks like a guarded skirt on a GFD? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 12:02:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09685 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:02:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IH41tv002563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IH40Hi010543; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IH2xHi010196 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8X003TO60J5Z@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:02:54 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030118115852.07c194d0@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Re: fur linings (apology) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:02:14 -0500 Status: RO Should have looked through the rest of the digests before responding. Robin, I think I can see what you're hinting at... I can see the [gores?] at the waistline, though they look more like there are a couple of triangular ones (center front and side-seam-pointed-towards the back)) set between the more trapezoidal or rectangular ones. I almost think I can see what you're referring to in terms of the vertical layers; if so, my eye took them for irregularities in the printed reproduction... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 14:41:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10378 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:41:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IJh4tv029014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IJh0Hi024379; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IJgVHi024148 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:42:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h0IJgV1250922 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:42:31 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:42:31 -0600 (CST) Status: RO > How can you tell rayon from linen? With a microscope. Get a decent kids' microscope, fray out a few individual fibers and mount them on a glass (or plastic, if it's an overprotective kids' microscope) plate and look at it under magnification. Rayon will look like spagetti: round cross-section, consistant width along the whole fiber. Linen looks a little like bamboo, it has nodules (thick spots) along the length of the fiber. It is much less perfect than rayon. Cotton is more ribbon-like. It has an indentation along the length of the fiber, like a partially deflated inner tube. When I took an introduction to textiles class, we were taught to use burn tests only for general classification, and other tests for specific identification. Cellulosics when burned smell like paper: use a microscope to identify further. Rayon tends to burn more completely, and some people can appearently distinguish cotton and linen by the odor of the smoke and ash, but I can't, and I'm not sure it can be discribed in words. You might burn known samples and see if you notice anything. As I recall, the difference was like the difference between burning leaves and burning paper. Protein fibers smell like hair when burned. Use a microscope to identify (wool has scales, silk is smooth and looks similar to rayon) Protein fibers will also dissolve in bleach. Synthetics bead up and generally smell bad. Use a variety of solvents to determine which is which. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 14:53:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10415 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:53:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IJt2tv029710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IJt0Hi027645; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IJsZHi027535 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:54:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.206.137.102] (account ) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.0.5) with HTTP id 141569920 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:54:29 -0600 From: "Karen Heim" Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.4.0.5 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030117225843.051a5a30@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:54:29 -0600 Status: RO On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:06:06 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > There used to be two different ways to go into historical > competition. Assuming the following is still true, there > will be historical re-creation, what I call the '3-D > Xerox school of thought', and historical interpretation, > what I call the 'take an idea and run with it' school of > thought. The book 'The Costume Maker's Art' has several > examples of both kinds of historicals. This is still true. If you haven't already, you should read the rules for the masquerade: http://www.jennifarse.com/cc2003/historical.htm > Then there are the Workmanship Awards. These are the > up-close craftsmanship awards, which, in a convention > full of costume makers, are pretty significant awards. > These recognize outstanding examples of pattern-making, > beading, embroidery, etc. Workmanship judging is > optional for the entrants, and no 'points' are lost if > one skips the workmanship judging entirely. I have been > a historical masquerade judge three times at CostumeCons, > and compete in the advanced division, but am proudest of > my workmanship awards because I think they are the > hardest to get. But many beginners have won these, and > many in the advanced division have not. OK. This is not correct. It may have been at one time, but there have been some changes over the years. First, workmanship judging is NOT optional in the Historical masquerade. It's part of the "pre-judging" all contestants must sign up for. At that time, the judges will compare the outfit to the documentation you have already turned in (and whether you're doing a recreation or an interpretation, you *really* should have some sort of documentation). In the past, no separate workmanship or documentation awards were given in the Historical masquerade - everything was lumped together. One set of judges a few years ago thought that wasn't right; if the Fantasy and Science Fiction masquerade had a separate workmanship award, then the Historical masq. should too; plus, they felt documentation was not being given its due, and deserved an award as well. SO, now there are 3 sets of awards in Historical: presentation, workmanship, and documentation. You can win Best in Show in any of these categories, although there will also be one overarching Best in Show, which represents the best combination of all 3 aspects. Good luck to you. I'll see you there, as I'm also competing in the Historical masq., as well as doing some other things - will you be doing anything for the Future Fashion show? Lots of good designs still available! Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 15:12:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10509 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:12:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IKE4tv000856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IKE0Hi003340; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IKDdHi003230 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:13:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-19-84.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.19.84] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18ZzLW-0005p7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:13:38 +0000 Message-ID: <005301c2bf2e$ac7a6b20$541327d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:17:49 -0000 Status: RO Robin wrote: > Other fold patterns might be less conducive to working out as a set of > parallels, but then, not *all* gowns were lined in fur; a summerweight > gown might be lined in silk, for instance, and a middle-class version > might not have the full fur lining. Even with the strong presence of fur, > there's plenty of documentary evidence for garments lined in silk or > linen, so some images and construction methods would not be fur-dependent. > It may be that some of the visual differences reflect the same > construction done with vs. without fur. Of course; hence my proviso that I was discussing the luxury furs used by the elite and not the generality of costume aross the board. At the top end of the scale a sute of clothes for kings and princes, with between 4 and nine garments in it, would usually all be furred with the exception of a tunic. Proceeding down the scale we have a tanner's wife who would take the air each day in her super-tunic of squirrel , and at the very bottom we would find the destitute whose only clothes were of animal skins. I suspect that the tanner's wife and her friends may have endeavoured to drape their garments in the hope of conveying the impression that they were lined with the finest ermine, and that the very rich were happy with silk linings when they were more comfortable, or more desirable in other ways. You may recall the cautionary tales I mentioned of girls meeting suitors in unfurred gowns to slim themselves down a bit, and finding their charms greatly dinished by the fact that they were purple with cold. Given that they might be wearing three furred garments one on top of another I can sympathise:-) One point about Weyden's Deposition which should be noted is that it was fairly late in the reign of the northern squirrel. Cutting edge wealthy furs were beginning to move to brown, sable, marten and so on, as probaby depicted on the figure at the Magdalene's left. Of course it continued to be worn, and sable has many of the characteristics of squirrel; it is incredibly soft and incredibly light. So the dress is transitional; one more reason to view the Magdalene's costume with caution. > Do you find that the seams of the pelts create ridges that would show > underneath the wool? No. The point here is that the fur of the northern squirrel and its near relatives is incredibly soft and light. Well tanned good quality squirrel pelts are thin and supple, and without one for comparison I'd suggest you imagine the finest pair of leather gloves that you have ever seen and touched. That sort of skin doesn't create hard ridges. Such pelts are though, by comparison with other fur bearers, delicate, and need looking after. >I haven't seen those ... on Giovanna, again to take > the convenient example (I can bet nearly everyone has access to a good > repro), the fabric is pressed pretty flat over the protrusion of the > bosom, but no signs of ridges that I can see. Neither can I; if you do come across a garment which looks like that it may indicate another fur being used. > Failing having actual fur, what do you think might work as an > approximation to achieve the same responses in a lining? e.g. something > heavy with quilting in patterns imitating pelt sizes/shapes to encourage > creases to fall in certain spots? I've been playing around trying to come up with something for you, but so far I've drawn a blank. Synthetic wadding is worse than useless, and the odd bits of faux fur that I dug out are almost as bad. Something like bump or domette might work but mine is in a carton at the most inaccessible spot in my storage cupboard, and that would take a couple of days to empty it all out. You should bear in mind that there will be a friction effect as well from the pile of the fur; you might try quilting a firm velvet over wadding. That's my best guess at the moment; I wish my budget would run to getting to Costume-con to attend your (and all the other) marvellous seminars, so I could demonstrate it, but even if I could get a cheap flight the single room surcharges in hotels are pretty dire. Perhaps if I stop buying things for costumes... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 15:31:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10604 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:31:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IKX1tv001797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IKX0Hi007990; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IKWSHi007800 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:32:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.197.14273098 (3699) for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:32:15 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <197.14273098.2b5b13cf@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_197.14273098.2b5b13cf_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:32:15 EST Status: RO --part1_197.14273098.2b5b13cf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This looks like 1790, at the latest, to me, unless it is a revival piece--that is, the artist painted it later, but in the earlier style. Hard to tell if the red garment is a stole or jacket, but I think it is some kind of either quasi-historic, or exotic-ethnic piece--like Russian, maybe, or Turkish? The gown, too, does not look like a real gown of the period, but we know that artists often took liberties with reality. Claudia Kidwell has researched this topic, and Aileen Ribeiro discusses historic and exotic dress in "The Art of Dress." Ann Wass --part1_197.14273098.2b5b13cf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This looks like 1790, at the latest, to me, unless it is a revival piece--that is, the artist painted it later, but in the earlier style.  Hard to tell if the red garment is a stole or jacket, but I think it is some kind of either quasi-historic, or exotic-ethnic piece--like Russian, maybe, or Turkish?  The gown, too, does not look like a real gown of the period, but we know that artists often took liberties with reality.  Claudia Kidwell has researched this topic, and Aileen Ribeiro discusses historic and exotic dress in "The Art of Dress."
Ann Wass --part1_197.14273098.2b5b13cf_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 17:38:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11421 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:38:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IMe8tv007266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IMe0Hi010710; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0IMdiHi010622 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:39:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from master ([80.6.56.44]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20030118223939.COJV20174.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@master> for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:39:39 +0000 From: janewilliams20@yahoo.co.uk To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] just ... wow. Message-ID: <3E29D7A3.15750.28F5FB3@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: janewilliams20@yahoo.co.uk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:39:31 -0000 Status: RO On 11 Jan 2003 at 14:32, lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15723&item=2803287690 > > Yeah, and the heading is, and i quote, "18th Century Couture Gown". > Farther down they write, "THIS GOWN IS A 19th CENTURY INTERPRETATION > OF AN 18TH CENTURY GOWN". > > Sheesh. It's a 20th c. interpretation of a 19th c. gown, not very > good 1870s. I forget which of the major US pattern companies it is, > Simplicity, i think... BTW, when did back zippers come in? Probably earlier than I imagine they did, but C18? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 18:33:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11694 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:33:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0INZCtv009787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0INZ1Hi024926; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0INYqHi024891 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-149.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.149]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id h0INYpc15225 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:34:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005e01c2bf4a$652e1840$6107d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: "Historic Costume List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Workshops Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:35:20 -0500 Status: RO Thought I'd let people know about two workshops Five Rivers is running in March. Saturday and Sunday March 1&2: A weekend workshop dedicated to discovering the secrets of constructing Georgian stays, suitable for any 18th century historical interpretation. Students learn how to adjust a pattern for a personal, custom fit, and period hand-sewing techniques, in an intimate, hands-on environment. Pattern included. Materials list provided prior to class to allow students time to assemble fabric, boning and notions required for the weekend. Classes conducted 9:00 a.m. to noon, with a 1 ½ hour break for lunch, with the afternoon session running from 1:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. Accommodations (primitive, depending on first come, first bed basis) and meals included. Saturday and Sunday March 15&16: A weekend workshop dedicated to discovering the secrets of constructing a Regency corset, suitable for 1790 to 1825 historical interpretation. Students learn how to adjust a pattern for a personal, custom fit, and period hand-sewing techniques, in an intimate, hands-on environment. Pattern included. Materials list provided prior to class to allow students time to assemble fabric, boning and notions required for the weekend. Classes conducted 9:00 a.m. to noon, with a 1 ½ hour break for lunch, with the afternoon session running from 1:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. Accommodations (primitive depending on first booked first bed basis) and meals included. Bookings can be made either through our website or by contacting me directly. Regards Lorina Stephens Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 18:47:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11742 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:47:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0INnAtv010435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:49:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0INn2Hi028565; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0INmHHi028325 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:48:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.16e.195f9d59 (24895) for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:48:05 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <16e.195f9d59.2b5b41b5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_16e.195f9d59.2b5b41b5_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:48:05 EST Status: RO --part1_16e.195f9d59.2b5b41b5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just picked up Rebeiro's "Art of Dress" and there is a similar jacket in Gerard and Fragonard's "The Reader," 1786. Rebeiro says the jacket is from Dutch art of the mid-17th century. Ann Wass --part1_16e.195f9d59.2b5b41b5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just picked up Rebeiro's "Art of Dress" and there is a similar jacket in Gerard and Fragonard's "The Reader," 1786.  Rebeiro says the jacket is from Dutch art of the mid-17th century.
Ann Wass --part1_16e.195f9d59.2b5b41b5_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 19:51:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12187 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:51:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J0rBtv012742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J0r0Hi014148; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J0qUHi013999 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.238.188]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8X00HJSRRHX2@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:52:30 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030118155417.051fc2e0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20030117225843.051a5a30@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:20:22 -0800 Status: RO >In the past, no separate workmanship or documentation >awards were given in the Historical masquerade - everything >was lumped together. You are actually incorrect on this point. At all the three CostumeCons I judged historical at (the last was like 14 years ago), workmanship awards were given by that name, separate from the rest of the awards. Granted, it was done by the same panel of judges who gave the rest of the awards, and at the same time as the rest of the pre-judging, but we considered it a separate possibility for award for each contestant. And pre-judging was optional then, but highly recommended. I remember a specific case of a workmanship award being given, where the contestant, at her first CostumeCon, thought she'd been given a dumb second-class award, and was very disappointed (her hotel-room-mate later told me). It wasn't till the following day, as I was giving a judges-eye-view commentary of a rough-cut of the historical masquerade tape, and she, sitting behind me where I couldn't see her, heard me gushing over what she had got the award for, that she realized what her award was worth in a convention full of costumers. So she went ahead with her plans to make costumes professionally, and is a working costume pro today. (I've seen her recent work - I'd let her sew for me.) >One set of judges a few years ago >thought that wasn't right; if the Fantasy and Science >Fiction masquerade had a separate workmanship award, then >the Historical masq. should too; So, things must have changed, and changed back again. >plus, they felt >documentation was not being given its due, and deserved an >award as well. That's good. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 21:56:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12921 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:56:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J2t8tv018203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:55:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J2t1Hi013005; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J2snHi012957 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:54:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net ([10.116.0.122]) by scanmail2.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:53:01 -0700 Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122] by scanmail2.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A30DB2010152; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:53:01 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:53:01 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Message-ID: <001001c2bf66$2f279d90$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3E29D7A3.15750.28F5FB3@localhost> X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Subject: [h-cost] zippers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:55:09 -0600 Status: RO BTW, when did back zippers come in? Probably earlier than I imagine they did, but C18? An early version of the zipper was invented in the 1890's, but it had the unfortunate habit of popping open. The inventor's son-in-law later spent a lot of time perfecting the design, and even more time trying to convince people that zipping was a better idea than hooks and eyes. I wasn't until the 1930's that zippers inclothes became common, although they had been used in rubber boots and mail bags earlier. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 22:31:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13189 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:31:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J3U3tv019283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J3U1Hi020807; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J3TiHi020730 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:29:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.201]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8X0088FZ1JCL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:29:44 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] zippers In-reply-to: <001001c2bf66$2f279d90$0201a8c0@kimathlon> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030118192639.0519ae00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3E29D7A3.15750.28F5FB3@localhost> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:29:34 -0800 Status: RO >BTW, when did back zippers come in? Probably earlier than I imagine >they did, but C18? > > >An early version of the zipper was invented in the 1890's, but it had >the unfortunate habit of popping open. The inventor's son-in-law later >spent a lot of time perfecting the design, and even more time trying to >convince people that zipping was a better idea than hooks and eyes. >I wasn't until the 1930's that zippers in clothes became common, although >they had been used in rubber boots and mail bags earlier. My mother tells me that 'gap-osis' is the term for this particular zipper behavior, so I'm assuming it's a 1920s term. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 23:03:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13256 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:03:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J429tv020281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:02:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J426Hi028200; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:02:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J41iHi028060 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:01:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0J4S0I3007925 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:28:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0J4S0Ca007923 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:28:00 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <197.14273098.2b5b13cf@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <197.14273098.2b5b13cf@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301182328.00220.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0J41iHi028060 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:28:00 -0500 Status: RO On Saturday 18 January 2003 03:32 pm, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > This looks like 1790, at the latest, to me, unless it is a revival > piece--that is, the artist painted it later, but in the earlier style. > Hard to tell if the red garment is a stole or jacket, I think it's pretty clearly not a jacket--note that it is completely open and not fastened down the sides. but I think it is > some kind of either quasi-historic, or exotic-ethnic piece--like Russian, > maybe, or Turkish? The gown, too, does not look like a real gown of the > period, but we know that artists often took liberties with reality. That's my impression--that's it's one of those paintings where the artist was attempting to evoke a feel different from the actual costume of the period. I think your 1790 date is probably correct. Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 23:05:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13274 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:05:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J453tv020431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J452Hi028888; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J44wHi028844 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:04:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0J4VEI3007940 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:31:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0J4VEeJ007938 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:31:14 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <005301c2bf2e$ac7a6b20$541327d9@dan> In-Reply-To: <005301c2bf2e$ac7a6b20$541327d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301182331.14350.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0J44wHi028844 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:31:14 -0500 Status: RO On Saturday 18 January 2003 03:17 pm, Stevie Gamble wrote: [text cut here] > > Failing having actual fur, what do you think might work as an > > approximation to achieve the same responses in a lining? e.g. > > something heavy with quilting in patterns imitating pelt sizes/shapes to >> encourage creases to fall in certain spots? > > I've been playing around trying to come up with something for you, but > so far I've drawn a blank. Synthetic wadding is worse than useless, > and the odd bits of faux fur that I dug out are almost as bad. > Something like bump or domette might work but mine is in a carton at > the most inaccessible spot in my storage cupboard, and that would take > a couple of days to empty it all out. Bump? Domette? What are those? What are they made of? -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 23:14:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13302 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:14:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J4D3tv020757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J4D1Hi000916; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J4CpHi000851 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.24.34e6f177 (4214) for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:12:42 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <24.34e6f177.2b5b7fba@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] zippers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_24.34e6f177.2b5b7fba_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:12:42 EST Status: RO --part1_24.34e6f177.2b5b7fba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The zipper (that used to be a trade name, by the way; the generic name was "slide fastener") was first invented for boots, I guess as an alternative to doing up all the buttons on late 1800s shoes. Ann Wass --part1_24.34e6f177.2b5b7fba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The zipper (that used to be a trade name, by the way; the generic name was "slide fastener") was first invented for boots, I guess as an alternative to doing up all the buttons on late 1800s shoes. 
Ann Wass --part1_24.34e6f177.2b5b7fba_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 23:19:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13317 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:19:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J4J2tv021025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J4J1Hi002262; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J4IDHi002072 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.91.292d61aa (4214) for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:18:02 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <91.292d61aa.2b5b80fa@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_91.292d61aa.2b5b80fa_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:18:02 EST Status: RO --part1_91.292d61aa.2b5b80fa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Still looks like a jacket to me, and, since the painting, "The Reader, in Ribeiro's book is by the same artist with Fragonard, it would not surprise me that it is the same garment. In that painting, it is most definitely a jacket. Ann Wass --part1_91.292d61aa.2b5b80fa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Still looks like a jacket to me, and, since the painting, "The Reader, in Ribeiro's book is by the same artist with Fragonard, it would not surprise me that it is the same garment.  In that painting, it is most definitely a jacket.
Ann Wass --part1_91.292d61aa.2b5b80fa_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 18 23:22:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13337 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:22:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J4M1tv021105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J4M0Hi002919; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J4L0Hi002670 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net ([10.116.0.122]) by scanmail2.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:19:12 -0700 Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122] by scanmail2.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A7408979004C; Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:19:12 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:19:12 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] zippers Message-ID: <000201c2bf72$39eac7a0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030118192639.0519ae00@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:21:22 -0600 Status: RO My mother tells me that 'gap-osis' is the term for this particular zipper behavior, so I'm assuming it's a 1920s term. Actually, I think this gap problem occurred with the change to nylon zippers in the 1960's. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 04:42:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14524 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 04:42:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J9fKtv029524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:41:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J9f6Hi003932; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:41:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0J9ejHi003849 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from p935-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.173] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18aBwW-00072r-00; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:40:40 +1300 Message-ID: <006d01c2bf9e$d48f3c10$adc3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <16e.195f9d59.2b5b41b5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006A_01C2C00B.CAC756F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:40:39 +1300 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C2C00B.CAC756F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> Aha! I thougt it looked 17thC... but I knew the painting couldn't be so = didn't even think that it could have been the same type of garment:) My = other guess would have been Turkish influence as I recall seeing many = paintings of women in 'Turkish' dress of the late 18thC/early 19thC. Glad to know my guesstimate wasn't far wrong:) (I said 1790 as the = latest:) ) Anyone able to get hold of Max von Boehn's Die Mode? Or the = English two volume Modes and Manners? Stuffed full of images from middle = ages to 1914. I'd really recommend finding them in a library near you. = The books are little but there are titles and artists and often locatons = of paintings. Also some great refs to costs of fabrics (like enough silk = to make a decent gown in 16thC germany cost the equivalent of a herd of = cows;) Or close to;) I mention this as I often got out the volume with regency period = paitings and it overlapped with this era we are discussing. michaela http://recital.tripod.com ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C2C00B.CAC756F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<I just picked up Rebeiro's "Art of Dress" = and there=20 is a similar jacket in Gerard and Fragonard's "The Reader," 1786.  = Rebeiro=20 says the jacket is from Dutch art of the mid-17th=20 century.>>
 
Aha! I thougt it looked 17thC... but I = knew the=20 painting couldn't be so didn't even think that it could have been the = same type=20 of garment:) My other guess would have been Turkish influence as I = recall seeing=20 many paintings of women in 'Turkish' dress of the late 18thC/early=20 19thC.
 
Glad to know my guesstimate wasn't far = wrong:) (I=20 said 1790 as the latest:) ) Anyone able to get hold of Max von Boehn's = Die Mode?=20 Or the English two volume Modes and Manners? Stuffed full of images from = middle=20 ages to 1914. I'd really recommend finding them in a library near you. = The books=20 are little but there are titles and artists and often locatons of = paintings.=20 Also some great refs to costs of fabrics (like enough silk to make a = decent gown=20 in 16thC germany cost the equivalent of a herd of cows;) Or close=20 to;)
 
I mention this as I often got out the = volume with=20 regency period paitings and it overlapped with this era we are=20 discussing.
 
michaela
http://recital.tripod.com
------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C2C00B.CAC756F0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 05:07:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14595 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 05:07:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JA68tv000187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 03:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JA62Hi008182; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 03:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JA5EHi008038 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 03:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.201]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8Y00H8BHCPNH@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:05:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] zippers In-reply-to: <000201c2bf72$39eac7a0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030119020112.0520fa80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <4.3.1.2.20030118192639.0519ae00@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:02:01 -0800 Status: RO >My mother tells me that 'gap-osis' is the term for this particular >zipper >behavior, so I'm assuming it's a 1920s term. > > >Actually, I think this gap problem occurred with the change to nylon >zippers in the 1960's. I heard it long before ordinary people could get Nylon zippers. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 07:42:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14976 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:42:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JCfBtv004059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 05:41:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JCf1Hi029296; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 05:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JCelHi029239 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 05:40:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f21.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.33]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8AD3D4808DD for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:40:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001701c2bfb8$621f95c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <16e.195f9d59.2b5b41b5@aol.com> <006d01c2bf9e$d48f3c10$adc3adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2BFC0.C3895AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:43:35 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2BFC0.C3895AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. This is not a typpical 18th. century costume. It is a genre painting. = The man (her husband) on the picture has a 17th century hairstyle. Yes = the jacket is very similar to the fashionable jackets of the 1660ies and = her dress is more like a late 18th century dress. It was very fashionable to dress up in 17th century costume in the end = of 18th century. The swedish court wore dresses with cavalier sleaves and standing = collars. It was a romantic wit. It was the king who designed the court = dresses. Max von Boehn=B4s modes and manners is very very lovely. But the print = of the pictures is very old. It would be a lovely lovely treassure if = they remade those books with new modern prints!! =20 Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: michaela=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction <> Aha! I thougt it looked 17thC... but I knew the painting couldn't be = so didn't even think that it could have been the same type of garment:) = My other guess would have been Turkish influence as I recall seeing many = paintings of women in 'Turkish' dress of the late 18thC/early 19thC. Glad to know my guesstimate wasn't far wrong:) (I said 1790 as the = latest:) ) Anyone able to get hold of Max von Boehn's Die Mode? Or the = English two volume Modes and Manners? Stuffed full of images from middle = ages to 1914. I'd really recommend finding them in a library near you. = The books are little but there are titles and artists and often locatons = of paintings. Also some great refs to costs of fabrics (like enough silk = to make a decent gown in 16thC germany cost the equivalent of a herd of = cows;) Or close to;) I mention this as I often got out the volume with regency period = paitings and it overlapped with this era we are discussing. michaela http://recital.tripod.com ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2BFC0.C3895AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi.
This is not a typpical 18th. century = costume. It is=20 a genre painting. The man (her husband) on the picture has a 17th = century=20 hairstyle. Yes the jacket is very similar to the fashionable jackets of = the=20 1660ies and her dress is more like a late 18th century = dress.
It was very fashionable to dress up in = 17th century=20 costume in the end of 18th century.
The swedish court wore dresses = with cavalier=20 sleaves and standing collars. It was a romantic wit. It was the king who = designed the court dresses.
Max von Boehn=B4s modes and manners is = very very=20 lovely. But the print of the pictures is very old. It would be a lovely = lovely=20 treassure if they remade those books with new modern = prints!!
  
 
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk
=
 
http://home0.inet.tele.dk/dr= ewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 michaela=20
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 = 10:40=20 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image = from=20 sotheby's auction

<<I just picked up Rebeiro's "Art of Dress" = and there=20 is a similar jacket in Gerard and Fragonard's "The Reader," = 1786. =20 Rebeiro says the jacket is from Dutch art of the mid-17th=20 century.>>
 
Aha! I thougt it looked 17thC... but = I knew the=20 painting couldn't be so didn't even think that it could have been the = same=20 type of garment:) My other guess would have been Turkish influence as = I recall=20 seeing many paintings of women in 'Turkish' dress of the late = 18thC/early=20 19thC.
 
Glad to know my guesstimate wasn't = far wrong:) (I=20 said 1790 as the latest:) ) Anyone able to get hold of Max von Boehn's = Die=20 Mode? Or the English two volume Modes and Manners? Stuffed full of = images from=20 middle ages to 1914. I'd really recommend finding them in a library = near you.=20 The books are little but there are titles and artists and often = locatons of=20 paintings. Also some great refs to costs of fabrics (like enough silk = to make=20 a decent gown in 16thC germany cost the equivalent of a herd of cows;) = Or=20 close to;)
 
I mention this as I often got out the = volume with=20 regency period paitings and it overlapped with this era we are=20 discussing.
 
michaela
http://recital.tripod.com
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2BFC0.C3895AA0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 08:51:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15608 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:51:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JDoNtv005373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 06:50:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JDo9Hi010479; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 06:50:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JDneHi010373 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 06:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18aFpS-0001Fc-00; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 05:49:39 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Cc: Message-ID: <000001c2bfc1$a6e11f40$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0JDneHi010373 Subject: [h-cost] Cool Celtic print fabrics Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 06:49:56 -0700 Status: RO http://equilter.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/home.html I was browsing this site again and put in Celtic in the search engine. It comes up with lots of cool fabrics and products. (I am thinking about ordering the Celtic appliqué book). BTY, they also have the dragon and knight fabric everyone is talking about. Not sure how one would incorporate either the former or the latter in historic reproductions, but they might be a way to introduce a little 'history' into our mundane clothes!! I still can't stop raving about the palate thingy!! What a way to mollify a urge from your fabric addiction! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 09:23:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15850 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:23:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEIktv005918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEIcHi015572; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JECtHi014473 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-36-13-190.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.13.190] helo=dan) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18aGBx-0001aq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:12:54 +0000 Message-ID: <002601c2bfc5$729f4be0$be0d24d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <005301c2bf2e$ac7a6b20$541327d9@dan> <200301182331.14350.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:17:06 -0000 Status: RO Cathy wrote > > Something like bump or domette might work but mine is in a carton at > > the most inaccessible spot in my storage cupboard, and that would take > > a couple of days to empty it all out. > > Bump? Domette? What are those? What are they made of? These are natural fibres used as interlinings for expensive curtains; domette is also used as interlinings for clothes. A quick Google will pull up suppliers; they are essential to drapes, swags, etc. etc. The best how to books, in my view, are by Lady Caroline Wrey; they give all sorts of techniques which can also be used for garments. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 09:37:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15930 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:37:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEX7tv006190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:33:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEX2Hi018173; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:33:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEWNHi018050 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.168.196a5a85 (3699) for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:32:14 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <168.196a5a85.2b5c10ee@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_168.196a5a85.2b5c10ee_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:32:14 EST Status: RO --part1_168.196a5a85.2b5c10ee_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/19/2003 4:44:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > Max von Boehn's Die Mode? Or the English two volume Modes and Manners? They also have repros of fashion plates in color--many of which I haven't been able to find anywhere else. Fortunately, the University of Maryland Libraries have the set. Ann Wass --part1_168.196a5a85.2b5c10ee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/19/2003 4:44:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:


Max von Boehn's Die Mode? Or the English two volume Modes and Manners?


They also have repros of fashion plates in color--many of which I haven't been able to find anywhere else.  Fortunately, the University of Maryland Libraries have the set.
Ann Wass --part1_168.196a5a85.2b5c10ee_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 09:39:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15947 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:39:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEZ7tv006233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEZ3Hi018557; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEXvHi018361 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:34:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A23AF22E0128; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:12:10 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A235111B029C; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:12:05 -0600 Message-ID: <008701c2bfc4$c9e94b40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] RE: New Fabric Site Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:12:23 -0500 Status: RO I received my fabric in two days from www.ladybuttonfabric.com . I am very impressed with the speedy service. I was so happy that a little extra yardage was included and that the fabric was cut straight!!! My local fabric stores don't seem to know how to cut straight. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 09:59:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15999 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:59:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEsxtv006703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEsGHi022087; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JErIHi021912 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:53:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1b9.ca2c2a9 (3699) for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:53:07 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1b9.ca2c2a9.2b5c15d3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: New Fabric Site To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1b9.ca2c2a9.2b5c15d3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:53:07 EST Status: RO --part1_1b9.ca2c2a9.2b5c15d3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/19/2003 9:35:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: > www.ladybuttonfabric.com Whoops! For those trying to find the site, like I was, it is www.ladybuttonfabrics.com Ann Wass --part1_1b9.ca2c2a9.2b5c15d3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/19/2003 9:35:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes:


www.ladybuttonfabric.com


Whoops!  For those trying to find the site, like I was, it is www.ladybuttonfabrics.com
Ann Wass --part1_1b9.ca2c2a9.2b5c15d3_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 10:06:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16024 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:06:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JF1Htv006864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JF11Hi023332; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JEx8Hi022955 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:59:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AD2BEA93006A; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:58:51 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AD2A1EEF021A; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:58:50 -0600 Message-ID: <00a801c2bfcb$4c599200$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <1b9.ca2c2a9.2b5c15d3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: New Fabric Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C2BFA1.63373EC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:58:59 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C2BFA1.63373EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Ann!!!!! I am still adjusting to be up during the day instead of night. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C2BFA1.63373EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Ann!!!!!  I am still adjusting to be up during the day = instead=20 of night.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
  ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C2BFA1.63373EC0-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 11:41:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16446 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:41:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JGh6tv010061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JGh2sR012101; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JGgvsR012004 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:42:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0JH9PI3018913 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:09:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0JH9Ol0018911 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:09:24 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200301182331.14350.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002601c2bfc5$729f4be0$be0d24d9@dan> In-Reply-To: <002601c2bfc5$729f4be0$be0d24d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301191209.24515.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0JGgvsR012004 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:09:24 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 19 January 2003 09:17 am, Stevie Gamble wrote: > Cathy wrote > > > > Something like bump or domette might work but mine is in a carton > > at > > > > the most inaccessible spot in my storage cupboard, and that would > > take > > > > a couple of days to empty it all out. > > > > Bump? Domette? What are those? What are they made of? > > These are natural fibres used as interlinings for expensive curtains; > domette is also used as interlinings for clothes. A quick Google will > pull up suppliers; they are essential to drapes, swags, etc. etc. The > best how to books, in my view, are by Lady Caroline Wrey; they give > all sorts of techniques which can also be used for garments. Thanks. I'd never heard of them before (I wonder if they go by different names in the U.S.).... -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 13:39:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17158 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:39:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JIeQtv015189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:40:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JId0sR005226; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0JIc0sR004967 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:38:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030119183755.36150.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:37:55 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] New book To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:37:55 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > My textile-interested librarian friend passed me this cite. This is all I > know, and I can't translate it either, but it's apparently something about > medieval textiles. > > Susan Moller-Wiering, Segeltuch und Emballage: Textilien im > mittelalterlichen Warentransport auf Nord- und Ostsee (Rahden: Vlg. Marie > Leidorf, 2002. Euros 66.50/$67.00 "Canvas and Emballage (whatever that is): textiles in the medieval transport of wares on Northsea and Ostsee (not a clue what the Ostsee is in English, Eastsea?)." N. ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 14:12:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21367 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:12:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JJE3tv017274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:14:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JJE2sR014854; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JJDwsR014782 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-127-37.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.127.37] (may be forged)) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOQ49617; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:11:50 GMT Message-ID: <018f01c2bfef$4d42af20$54694ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> <009501c2bedb$a26c0a60$54694ed5@pavilion> <002e01c2bf08$9a4434c0$541327d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:16:42 -0000 Status: RO >Indeed; I gave these references a little while ago in the discussion on Robin's tippets: Sorry must have missed it, but maybe not as I have Fur in dress now & ordered it recently >Elspeth Veale's The English Fur Trade in the Later Middle Ages.' Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1966 Can you tell me what period this discusses as it looked a bit late for me Thanks Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 16:52:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21974 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:51:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JLrAtv023863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JLr0sR027044; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta01bw.bigpond.com (mta01bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JLq2sR026794 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:52:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.72]) by mta01bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta01bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H8ZE2I00.7UE for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:51:54 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.205 ([203.54.114.205]) by bwmam02.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 11/24927852); 20 Jan 2003 07:51:50 Message-ID: <3E2C0DFE.50478CA7@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20030119190008.11005.69503.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Ostsee Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 06:55:58 -0800 Status: RO h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:37:55 +0000 (GMT) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= > Subject: Re: [h-cost] New book > To: h-costume@indra.com > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > > My textile-interested librarian friend passed me this cite. This is all I > > know, and I can't translate it either, but it's apparently something about > > medieval textiles. > > > > Susan Moller-Wiering, Segeltuch und Emballage: Textilien im > > mittelalterlichen Warentransport auf Nord- und Ostsee (Rahden: Vlg. Marie > > Leidorf, 2002. Euros 66.50/$67.00 > > "Canvas and Emballage (whatever that is): textiles in the medieval transport of > wares on Northsea and Ostsee (not a clue what the Ostsee is in English, > Eastsea?)." > If it is the sea to the north and east of Germany (and I vaguely recall it being that in a map in 4th form German) then it is part or all of the Baltic Sea. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 16:56:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22001 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:56:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JLw0tv024074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JLw0sR028218; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta08bw.bigpond.com (mta08bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0JLvdsR028109 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.72]) by mta08bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta08bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H8ZEBV00.2XK for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:57:31 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.205 ([203.54.114.205]) by bwmam02.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 11/24934554); 20 Jan 2003 07:57:26 Message-ID: <3E2C0F4F.2B8DB3D0@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] 1540's Italian Dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:01:35 -0800 Status: RO Hi all, I wonder if anyone remembers just before Christmas when we were discussing 1540's dresses someone posted the URL for a pic of a dress that was supposed to be an example of one of the features we were talking about. Anyway, the main thing I remember about it was the decoration on the bodice which consisted of ribbon sewn in a double line square. I think the dress was green and the ribbon yellow. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone still has the link because I rather carelessly deleted it. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 19:08:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22593 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:08:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K087tv029379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:08:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K081sR029877; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ohsmtp01.ogw.rr.com (ohsmtp01.ogw.rr.com [65.24.7.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K07CsR029724 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from jamie (dhcp024-209-060-053.neo.rr.com [24.209.60.53]) by ohsmtp01.ogw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h0K07BXc008952 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:07:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001801c2c017$dc55b360$353cd118@jamie> From: "ailith" To: References: <3E2C0F4F.2B8DB3D0@bigpond.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1540's Italian Dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:06:57 -0500 Status: RO http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/Green1.jpg It's attributed to da Carpi, circa 1530. There's a b&w of it in 20,000 Years of Fashion. kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 21:16:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23198 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:16:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K2H3tv005464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K2H0sR000534; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K2G5sR000320 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil2071.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.71]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K2Fx7K028276 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:16:08 -0500 Message-ID: <3E2B5C65.F5F87EB7@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] zippers References: <24.34e6f177.2b5b7fba@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:18:13 -0500 Status: RO Hi, All. I just saw a "history of the zipper" book for sale at Daedalus Books in Columbia Md. Don't remember the name of the book or the author, but you could check with the company (Daedalus, that is) to find it if you are interested. They also have a wad of small couture books on modern designers (Ferragamo, etc.). I don't know their URL off the top of my head, but you could probably search it out easily enough, or if you live nearby, you could stop by. I also picked up a few books. Two are rather nice, and have a number of good clothing illos that I hadn't seen before. One is "Netherlandish Art in the Rijksmuseum 1400-1600", and the other is "The Medieval Art of Love" by Michael Camille. Both books were really reasonably priced. I recommend Daedalus highly. Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 21:46:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23377 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:46:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K2l2tv006889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K2l0sR007047; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K2kdsR006935 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:46:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <200301200246330030007fjve>; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 02:46:33 +0000 Message-ID: <05d401c2c02e$c0c5c3d0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <24.34e6f177.2b5b7fba@aol.com> <3E2B5C65.F5F87EB7@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] 18c hair styles Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:46:12 -0600 Status: RO Over a year ago, well ok, 2 years ago, I told you all that I had a modern day doll pattern of 18c dolls, dresses, and hair styles. I found all but the first page of this pattern and have put up the instructions of how to put the hair up. From these instructions you can extrapolate how to do your own hair. Once I find the first page I will add it to the site but for now, here it is. :) http://www.glove.org/costume/hair/index.htm Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 22:10:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23518 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:10:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K3B2tv008037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K3B1sR012122; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K3A9sR011971 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:10:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil2071.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.71]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K3AC7K005381 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:10:13 -0500 Message-ID: <3E2B6930.9017C126@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' References: <007201c2bb44$ac54bd00$4b0127d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:12:49 -0500 Status: RO Hi. In Gerry and John's book "The Medieval Soldier", there are some illos of some upper class folks wearing fur (pgs 20 and 22). I would like, however, to respectfully disagree with the assertion that everyone in these companies would have worn fur in one size, shape or form (unless wool is considered). There are literally thousands of representations of common folk, or even lesser nobility, from these periods that are shown with no evidence of them wearing fur either at all times, or in fact in any, regardless of the season. Certainly the wealthiest had access to the minivers and vair, etc., but I am certainly not familiar with such a widespread universal usage of fur at this period. If there is ample documentary evidence to support such a broad theory, I would be glad to see it presented, as this is certainly the best forum for such a discussion. Please do not take offence, and since I am a dilletante in this field, I may not be up to speed on the current archaeological and socialogical evidence, but I am hesitant to accept such a broad statement without further knowledge. This said, I will await further commentary on this highly interesting subject. Mike T. > Every person in these companies would have worn fur > in some size, shape or form, and yet the only reference in the Saint > George site plates is to an armed messenger wearing a furlined gown. > There is no reference to fur in clothing at all that I can find in the > site for La Belle Compaigne. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 22:13:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23546 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:13:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K3E2tv008198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K3E0sR013024; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20207.mail.yahoo.com (web20207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0K3DGsR012749 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:13:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030120031315.30406.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:13:15 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <006d01c2bf9e$d48f3c10$adc3adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:13:15 +1100 (EST) Status: RO Thank you all who helped me with my query regarding that red jacket-like garment. :) I've found the one thing I'd get if I had the cash - and it's not a painting, despite there being quite a few paintings by Venetian artists available. It's a Venetian casket..."elaborately painted and panelled, the raised central section of lid with slide compartment, the lid opening to reveal a glass (replaced), the interior with later velvet covering, two secret drawers on the underside, with key..." The "casket is a rare and extravagant example of the Islamic inspired lacquer-work produced in Venice during the second half of the 16th century." This sounds like it could have been used as a jewel casket - I especially like the hidden drawers. :) Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 23:19:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24301 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:19:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K4I2tv010692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K4I0kg027364; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K4Hakg027257 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:17:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18aTNP-0005nC-00; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:17:35 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 18aTNP-0002Bw-00; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:17:35 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] zippers In-Reply-To: <3E2B5C65.F5F87EB7@dandy.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:17:35 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, leigh tartaglio wrote: >Hi, All. I just saw a "history of the zipper" book for sale at Daedalus >Books in Columbia Md. Don't remember the name of the book or the author, >but you could check with the company (Daedalus, that is) Might it have been: "Zipper: an Exploration in Novelty" by Robert Friedel I have it here in front of me. 1994 ISBN 0-393-31365-4 W. W. Norton & Company NY, London Looks like on a quick scan of the book, early 1890's an inventor from Chicago, working on a sliding shoe fastener, trying to get a patent. ca. 1891, 1893 "C- Curity Fastener" 1902 looks rather like a zipper, hooks opposite eyes, with a slider, on a cloth tape like we'd expect (earlier models just metal to be attached to cloth). Advertised for skirt placket closures. Anyone seen one of these in an early piece of clothing? I haven't, but would love to. The earliest zipepr I've seen is 1930's. 1917 the modern looking zipper patented. Don't have time to read the book, much too tired after spending the weekend at Arisia, but I've been able to glean a bit of history from the illustrations. hope this helps. Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 23:23:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24354 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:23:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K4M1tv010824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K4M0kg028406; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K4Lukg028377 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:21:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A963414600E8; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:21:55 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A963EFC0150; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:21:55 -0600 Message-ID: <01b401c2c03a$faed7f60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Funny Ad Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:18:17 -0500 Status: RO Did anyone see the new commercial during the Golden Globes tonight called "Medeval Kenieval (sp)? I thought I was going to laugh myself silly. It is a diet Dr. Pepper commercial. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 19 23:52:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24655 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:52:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K4r1tv011887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K4r0kg004940; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K4qfkg004861 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:52:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a239.in-tch.com [66.62.107.39]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0K4a4r16167 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:36:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E2B80BE.59E5B181@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Funny Ad References: <01b401c2c03a$faed7f60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:53:18 -0700 Status: RO Yes! I just saw it the other night--it's hysterical. I actually laughed so hard, I scared the Resident Felines. I'm not much on advertising, in general, but oh...the good ones are priceless! I think it'd be spelled "Medieval Knieval." Maybe. *laughs* I've been running on one (mental) cylinder all weekend.... --sue, who actually lives only a couple of hours from Evil Kneival's home town Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Did anyone see the new commercial during the Golden Globes tonight called > "Medeval Kenieval (sp)? I thought I was going to laugh myself silly. It is > a diet Dr. Pepper commercial. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 00:00:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24697 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 00:00:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K511tv012137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K510kg006697; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0K50okg006669 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24748 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2003 05:00:49 -0000 Received: from turbo.sonic.net (208.201.224.26) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2003 05:00:49 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-109.sonic.net [209.148.112.109]) by turbo.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h0K50nT10296 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:00:49 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3E2B829A.9050301@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] zippers References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:01:14 -0800 Status: RO _Zipper_ is an excellent popular history, well researched and entertainingly written. I still remember the story about the traveling salesman for an early model, which didn't work very well, being threatened with a lethal weapon the next time he visited that store. Fran > Might it have been: > > "Zipper: an Exploration in Novelty" by Robert Friedel > > I have it here in front of me. 1994 ISBN 0-393-31365-4 > W. W. Norton & Company NY, London > -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 03:03:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30604 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 03:03:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K847tv024804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 01:04:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K840kg020046; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 01:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0K83mkg020000 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 01:03:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030120080342.7233.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:03:42 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E2B6930.9017C126@dandy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:03:42 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- leigh tartaglio wrote: > > discussion. Please do not take offence, and since I am a dilletante in > this field, I may not be up to speed on the current archaeological and > socialogical evidence, but I am hesitant to accept such a broad statement > without further knowledge. This said, I will await further commentary on > this highly interesting subject. Mike T. I just got back last night from germany (again) and am working through the mails, particularly the fur ones. Thus I'd like to support/agree with Mike and plead as well, when making such a broad statement, please give us evidence to support it because I am very curious, not knowing jack diddley about the period, and I am always loathe to just accept something someone says (whoever, I make no distinction between 'well known' scholars and members of this list) as the 'truth' in a given period/subject I am not able to verify the statement myself, so I, too, am waiting eagerly for loads of evidence. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 04:35:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04970 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 04:35:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K9a3tv026971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 02:36:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K9a0kg007361; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 02:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0K9Zokg007324 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 02:35:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0K9Zm111725.; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:35:48 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:35:44 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0K9Zokg007324 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:35:33 +0000 Status: RO I agree with Bjarne. I think it's an 18th century take on 17th century costume. The title of the painting is "Deserved regrets", so she is obviously meant to be emotionally involved with the man in the portrait. The plain satin is a typical mid-17th century look, though of course the cut of the bodice and "natural" bustline are wrong. It's like those portraits of men in so-called "Vandyke" costume, but with the 18th century long waist. >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 01/19/03 12:43pm >>> Hi. This is not a typpical 18th. century costume. It is a genre painting. The man (her husband) on the picture has a 17th century hairstyle. Yes the jacket is very similar to the fashionable jackets of the 1660ies and her dress is more like a late 18th century dress. It was very fashionable to dress up in 17th century costume in the end of 18th century. The swedish court wore dresses with cavalier sleaves and standing collars. It was a romantic wit. It was the king who designed the court dresses. Max von Boehn s modes and manners is very very lovely. But the print of the pictures is very old. It would be a lovely lovely treassure if they remade those books with new modern prints!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: michaela To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image from sotheby's auction <> Aha! I thougt it looked 17thC... but I knew the painting couldn't be so didn't even think that it could have been the same type of garment:) My other guess would have been Turkish influence as I recall seeing many paintings of women in 'Turkish' dress of the late 18thC/early 19thC. Glad to know my guesstimate wasn't far wrong:) (I said 1790 as the latest:) ) Anyone able to get hold of Max von Boehn's Die Mode? Or the English two volume Modes and Manners? Stuffed full of images from middle ages to 1914. I'd really recommend finding them in a library near you. The books are little but there are titles and artists and often locatons of paintings. Also some great refs to costs of fabrics (like enough silk to make a decent gown in 16thC germany cost the equivalent of a herd of cows;) Or close to;) I mention this as I often got out the volume with regency period paitings and it overlapped with this era we are discussing. michaela http://recital.tripod.com ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 06:46:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05462 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 06:46:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KBl4tv000650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 04:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KBl1kg027761; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 04:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KBkRkg027632 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 04:46:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-32-132.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.32.132] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18aaNm-0005VY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:46:26 +0000 Message-ID: <001e01c2c07a$2763f300$842023d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <007201c2bb44$ac54bd00$4b0127d9@dan> <3E2B6930.9017C126@dandy.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:50:39 -0000 Status: RO Hi, Mike T, Nicole , Well, unsurprisingly enough, my observations are based on the same references I quoted in my lengthy posts on the use of fur in the Middle Ages re Robin's tippets, back in November, and subsequently on the question of fur linings, edgings etc. Obviously you missed all those posts; perhaps you'd like to dig them out and at least read the content. And after that you might like to actually read the books, so once more, with feeling: Elspeth Veale's The English Fur Trade in the Later Middle Ages.' Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1966 'Fur in dress', by Elizabeth Ewing, Batsford, London, 1981. Incidently, Gerry and John's book is apparently out of print, so I cannot check the references you quote. However, I would have expected them, if they really had done their research in any detail, to have read both Veale and Ewing. In which case they would have known better. best wishes Stevie ----- Original Message ----- From: "leigh tartaglio" To: Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' > Hi. In Gerry and John's book "The Medieval Soldier", there are some illos > of some upper class folks wearing fur (pgs 20 and 22). I would like, > however, to respectfully disagree with the assertion that everyone in > these companies would have worn fur in one size, shape or form (unless > wool is considered). There are literally thousands of representations of > common folk, or even lesser nobility, from these periods that are shown > with no evidence of them wearing fur either at all times, or in fact in > any, regardless of the season. Certainly the wealthiest had access to the > minivers and vair, etc., but I am certainly not familiar with such a > widespread universal usage of fur at this period. If there is ample > documentary evidence to support such a broad theory, I would be glad to > see it presented, as this is certainly the best forum for such a > discussion. Please do not take offence, and since I am a dilletante in > this field, I may not be up to speed on the current archaeological and > socialogical evidence, but I am hesitant to accept such a broad statement > without further knowledge. This said, I will await further commentary on > this highly interesting subject. Mike T. > > > > Every person in these companies would have worn fur > > in some size, shape or form, and yet the only reference in the Saint > > George site plates is to an armed messenger wearing a furlined gown. > > There is no reference to fur in clothing at all that I can find in the > > site for La Belle Compaigne. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 07:14:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05568 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:14:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCF2tv001696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCF1kg003456; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0KCEhkg003373 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:14:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030120121438.67044.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:14:38 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001e01c2c07a$2763f300$842023d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:14:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Hi, > Mike T, Nicole , > Well, unsurprisingly enough, my observations are based on the same > references I quoted in my lengthy posts on the use of fur in the > Middle Ages re Robin's tippets, back in November, and subsequently on > the question of fur linings, edgings etc. Obviously you missed all > those posts; perhaps you'd like to dig them out and at least read the > content. Well that isn't possible, I have yet to find a way of finding an archive that is recent, maybe there is one? If there is I'd be very happy to know. Anyway, I remember which batch of emails you mean now. > And after that you might like to actually read the books, so once > more, with feeling: > > Elspeth Veale's The English Fur Trade in the Later > Middle Ages.' Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1966 > > 'Fur in dress', by Elizabeth Ewing, > Batsford, London, 1981. Thank you, but that was not what I was looking for re evidence. I had hoped you could have pointed us to 'period places', like it is often done, but doesn't matter, I just take the statement with a box of salt and don't worry about it till perhaps one day I do actually get the time to dig out the evidence myself i.e. read the books. Thanks anyway, and it just doesn't matter so much to me, so no worries. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 07:21:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05601 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:21:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCM2tv001823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCM1kg004728; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCL8kg004582 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-124-239.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.124.239]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOQ97671; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:19:04 GMT Message-ID: <015701c2c07e$6045bab0$45634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030120121438.67044.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:20:51 -0000 Status: RO >Thank you, but that was not what I was looking for re evidence. I had hoped you could have pointed us to 'period place I was wondering about primary evidence too. The Fur one by Ewing is very sparse on the medieval period, dealing far more I think with later info. I felt you gleaned far more from it than I did, or maybe more came from the other book ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 07:24:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05608 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:24:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCP1tv001940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCP1kg005352; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCOgkg005308 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-32-132.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.32.132] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18aaym-0005nr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:24:40 +0000 Message-ID: <003e01c2c07f$7f311d60$842023d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20030120121438.67044.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:28:54 -0000 Status: RO Nicole wrote: >I had hoped you > could have pointed us to 'period places', Nicole, I'm absolutely baffled; what do you mean? bemused best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 07:39:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05662 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:39:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCe1tv002231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCe0kg008150; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCdakg008069 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:39:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-32-132.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.32.132] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18abDD-0006bF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:39:35 +0000 Message-ID: <004501c2c081$948edce0$842023d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> <009501c2bedb$a26c0a60$54694ed5@pavilion> <002e01c2bf08$9a4434c0$541327d9@dan> <018f01c2bfef$4d42af20$54694ed5@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:43:49 -0000 Status: RO Mel wrote, re: > >Elspeth Veale's The English Fur Trade in the Later > Middle Ages.' Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1966 > > Can you tell me what period this discusses as it looked a bit late for me I don't know what your period is, so I can't be sure:-) but the earliest brief references in the book are to Charlemagne, and it wanders from time to time into the 16th century. It's not exclusively English, unsurprisingly; the fur trade was European wide, and supplies came not only from the extreme north, but also from the south eg bougie or budge from north africa. The book was greatly expanded from a Phd thesis, and is rather more wideranging than the title suggests. The constraints on early periods are, of course, the lack of much archival evidence from those periods. I think it's essential reading, but you may differ. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 07:44:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05668 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:44:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCj2tv002357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCj1kg009138; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCiZkg009030 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:44:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-32-132.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.32.132] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18abI2-000755-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:44:34 +0000 Message-ID: <005001c2c082$46d152c0$842023d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20030120121438.67044.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> <015701c2c07e$6045bab0$45634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:48:48 -0000 Status: RO Mel wrote: > I was wondering about primary evidence too. > > The Fur one by Ewing is very sparse on the medieval period, dealing far more > I think with later info. > > I felt you gleaned far more from it than I did, or maybe more came from the > other book ? Yes; unsurprisingly, there is a great deal more information on the fur trade in the later Middle Ages in the book called 'The English Fur Trade in the Later Middle Ages.' best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 07:45:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05672 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:45:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCk1tv002391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KCk0kg009316; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0KCjQkg009215 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:45:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030120124521.73617.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:45:21 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <003e01c2c07f$7f311d60$842023d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:45:21 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Nicole wrote: > > >I had hoped you > > could have pointed us to 'period places', > > Nicole, I'm absolutely baffled; what do you mean? Oh, sorry, sometimes I don't know how to express things. I meant when ppl post period images or texts to support a statement, but I suppose this topic is too wide ranging to do that. As I said, nevermind when it comes to me, it doesn't matter that much, I have the book titles saved, so that's okay. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 08:13:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05789 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:13:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KDE2tv003164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 06:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KDE0kg015009; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 06:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KDDdkg014939 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 06:13:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-116-81.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.116.81]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOR02760; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:11:35 GMT Message-ID: <020401c2c085$b63efd80$45634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> <009501c2bedb$a26c0a60$54694ed5@pavilion> <002e01c2bf08$9a4434c0$541327d9@dan> <018f01c2bfef$4d42af20$54694ed5@pavilion> <004501c2c081$948edce0$842023d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:13:02 -0000 Status: RO My periods are 5th C (which isn't relative) and 13th C which is the one I'm most interested in finding info for. I'm lothed to keepo buying books which only give me a sentance or so of information on my interest. >Yes; unsurprisingly, there is a great deal more information on the fur trade in the later Middle Ages in the book called 'The English Fur Trade in the Later Middle Ages.' Unfortunaly 'late Middle Ages' is a phrase somewhate open to debate or interpretation. Venturing as you suggest it does into the 16th is not within the normally accepted Middle Ages in my experiance. And from what you say it also wanders into what I would define as the early middle ages too. Added to that the difference in definitions since this was written nearly 40 years ago and any clarification is greatly appriciated ! Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 08:31:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05872 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:31:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KDW2tv003678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 06:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KDW1kg018639; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 06:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40906.mail.yahoo.com (web40906.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0KDVmkg018586 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 06:31:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030120133143.67444.qmail@web40906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.20.152] by web40906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:31:43 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030120093600.7360.78476.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: fur in dress; was: companies and fur linings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:31:43 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Mike wrote: > If > there is ample > documentary evidence to support such a broad theory, > I would be glad to > see it presented, as this is certainly the best > forum for such a > discussion. Thanks to Stevie's book suggestions the last time the list discussed fur use in the High Middle Ages, I've gleaned much from the first chapter of Elspeth Veale's _The English Fur Trade in the Late Middle Ages_. Since she heavily relies on wardrobe accounts and other primary sources, I trust her summary. This first chapter, entitled 'Costly Thy Habit. . .' goes into some detail about the trends in say, the late 14th century toward the broad and voracious use of fur in clothing from royalty down to commoners. Here's a quote: "Of the twenty gowns owned by Edward III's mother, listed with her other possessions after her death in 1358, sixteen were furred. Henry V left twenty-six gowns, all except six of which were furred, as were seven of his nine hats." (Veale p. 6) We can safely conclude from this little tidbit that no, not EVERY gown was furred, but that at the highest levels of social class, _most_ were. There's a lot more supporting evidence (drawn from primary sources) in this chapter supporting the idea that almost every level of society wore fur of some sort, from cat (beg pardon of the cat-lovers!) to sumptuous miniver and ermine. There's also evidence that summer gowns were more routinely lined in silk, but that even then, fur was used too. Livery of wealthy households was also often furred, thanks to the heads of those households feeling compelled to outdo the Joneses next door. So, perhaps the answer to whether or not 'all' members of a company would wear fur is "It would be an accurate portrayal to have an all-furred company, but conversely it is not _inaccurate_ to have only some members of the company wearing fur." Perhaps the least likely would be a company consisting of relatively well-off folks not sporting one jot of fur. A case can be made for the height of summer, but even that is a crap shoot. -Tasha __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 09:32:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06111 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:32:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KEW2tv005665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KEW0kg002605; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KEVLkg002451 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-32-132.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.32.132] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18acxL-0001eU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:31:20 +0000 Message-ID: <006901c2c091$30835720$842023d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20030120133143.67444.qmail@web40906.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fur in dress; was: companies and fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:35:33 -0000 Status: RO Tasha wrote: > So, perhaps the answer to whether or not 'all' members > of a company would wear fur is " >It would be an > accurate portrayal to have an all-furred company, but > conversely it is not _inaccurate_ to have only some > members of the company wearing fur." Actually, what I said was "Every person in these companies would have worn fur in some size, shape or form" At the top end the great lords, for example the opponent of Edward II, Thomas Earl of Lancaster, provided furs as part of the liveries. His retinue extended to 5-600 men wearing his colours of argent and azure , and most of those men appear to have worn furs. Few attained the heights of the Sun in Splendour himself, whose very horses had ermine skins on their trappings. (pages 7 and 8). At the bottom end (see Chapters II and III) the rag tag and bobtail of home skinned pelts, Chaucer's pilches, and second/third/fourth etc hand linings, cuffs, collars whatever. It is always useful to remind oneself that fur was not a luxury; types of fur were luxuries. Furs were worn indoors as well as out, there was no central heating, and a man sleeping in the rough on campaign needed to keep warm; if he didn't his fighting ability was greatly impaired. Fur, like wool, keeps you warm, and soldiers knew that keeping warm might make the difference between life and death. That isn't a luxury... >Perhaps the least > likely would be a company consisting of relatively > well-off folks not sporting one jot of fur. A case can > be made for the height of summer, but even that is a > crap shoot. Yes, I'd regard that as so unlikely as to be impossible; the wearing of fur was prescriptive, as well as necessary, hence the charming tale of Bishop Wulfstan and the absence of the Cat of God. I'm glad you are finding Elspeth Veale's book useful; even if you have no taste for the minutiae of the trading activities, Chapter VII, Fashions in Fur, which looks at the transitions in luxury furs through the 15th and 16th centuries, is well worth a look. best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 09:35:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06124 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:35:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KEa1tv005834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KEa1kg003584; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KEZ5kg003347 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:35:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-32-132.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.32.132] helo=dan) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18ad0z-0001zn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:35:05 +0000 Message-ID: <006a01c2c091$b6cd6460$842023d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> <009501c2bedb$a26c0a60$54694ed5@pavilion> <002e01c2bf08$9a4434c0$541327d9@dan> <018f01c2bfef$4d42af20$54694ed5@pavilion> <004501c2c081$948edce0$842023d9@dan> <020401c2c085$b63efd80$45634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:39:18 -0000 Status: RO Mel wrote: > My periods are 5th C (which isn't relative) and 13th C which is the one I'm > most interested in finding info for. > > I'm lothed to keepo buying books which only give me a sentance or so of > information on my interest. I appreciate that, and you may have difficulties in buying the Veale book anyway. But you don't need to; that is what libraries are for. > >Yes; unsurprisingly, there is a great deal more information on the fur > trade in the later Middle Ages in the book called 'The English Fur > Trade in the Later > Middle Ages.' > > Unfortunaly 'late Middle Ages' is a phrase somewhate open to debate or > interpretation. Venturing as you suggest it does into the 16th is not within > the normally accepted Middle Ages in my experiance. And from what you say it > also wanders into what I would define as the early middle ages too. Indeed so, as I pointed out to you. That is why I asked you to specify what you want to know about. > Added to that the difference in definitions since this was written nearly 40 > years ago and any clarification is greatly appriciated ! Well, there's certainly quite a bit about the 13th century in Elspeth Veale's book, but I think you are going to have to read it for yourself. It is footnoted to within an inch of its life, as works of scholarship are (or at least, should be). You have still not told me precisely what it is about the 13th century you are interested in, and you must appreciate that, in any case, a work of scholarship is not going to provide neat little soundbites. It is fascinating, but you may differ on this... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 10:01:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06254 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:01:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KF24tv007015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:02:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KF21kg011028; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40911.mail.yahoo.com (web40911.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0KF1lkg010905 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:01:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030120150142.30904.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40911.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:01:42 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030120143600.3577.21152.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: fur in dress; was: companies and fur linings Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:01:42 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > I'm glad you are finding Elspeth Veale's book > useful; even if you > have no taste for the minutiae of the trading > activities, Chapter VII, > Fashions in Fur, which looks at the transitions in > luxury furs through > the 15th and 16th centuries, is well worth a look. > > best wishes > Stevie Oh, but I _do_ have a taste for such miutiae, and just as soon as I can, I'm getting right to it! :^) To answer other queries about whether or not the books discussed here are useful for more than 'a sentence' of useful information: they're useful! Many, many, many sentences-worth of information! They're both excellent in their own ways. _Fur in Dress_, which relies more heavily on secondary sources than the Veale book (for instance, it references the Veale book) gives a not-shabby overview of fur in fashion, beginning with pre-history and moving forward through the periods we've been discussing. The first three or four chapters, IIR, provide lots of useful information. The Veale book, as Stevie has pointed out rather well, is amazing and chock full of scholarly evidence. She directly quotes or summarizes evidence from numerous period texts, beginning with 13th century accounts and moving foward through the 14th and 15th century primary sources. You'll find out about the Hanseatic League, the Skinners, and the age-old desire to look dashing. Honestly, these are excellent references, with the Veale book ranking higher than the Fur in Dress book for scholarship. They're not boring reads, either... -Tasha PS -- I get this list in digest form, so please pardon if I weigh in late on a topic and someone else has already stated what I'm saying. It's the only way I can manage the volume here. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 10:16:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06328 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:16:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KFG2tv007778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KFG0kg015734; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0KFC3kg014318 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:12:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030120151157.12569.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:11:57 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fur in dress; was: companies and fur linings To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030120133143.67444.qmail@web40906.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:11:57 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Tasha McGann wrote: > *snippage* Thanks ever so much Tasha, that was exactly the sort of 'period piece' I was looking and hoping for, that was very useful. I just cannot go and read a book everytime, nor do I expect somebody who has a quick 17th c. question to go read a specialist book or thesis. That's why I like this list so much! I save all the important emails with info in, if I can possible find teh time to read throughly through each (which isn't always the case though). > as were seven of his nine hats." (Veale p. 6) We can > safely conclude from this little tidbit that no, not > EVERY gown was furred, but that at the highest levels > of social class, _most_ were. There's a lot more > supporting evidence (drawn from primary sources) in > this chapter supporting the idea that almost every > level of society wore fur of some sort, from cat (beg > pardon of the cat-lovers!) to sumptuous miniver and > ermine. That makes a lot of sense, I am always a little suspicious when I hear _every_ or _all_ or _none_ or _never_ but I think we just had a thread about that recently. *hides her kittie from cat-fur-lovers* > So, perhaps the answer to whether or not 'all' members > of a company would wear fur is "It would be an > accurate portrayal to have an all-furred company, but > conversely it is not _inaccurate_ to have only some > members of the company wearing fur." Perhaps the least > likely would be a company consisting of relatively > well-off folks not sporting one jot of fur. A case can > be made for the height of summer, but even that is a > crap shoot. Yep, I get the point, and I think that this is indeed then what is missing in English re-enactment groups. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 10:25:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06372 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:25:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KFP2tv008264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KFP1kg018790; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KFOBkg018539 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:24:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18admR-00051g-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:24:07 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <001a01c2c098$081f82c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2C05D.5BC0AAC0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <001801c2c017$dc55b360$353cd118@jamie> Subject: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:24:31 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2C05D.5BC0AAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering for those of you who had made and worn gowns where the cut of the gown is such that the shoulder piece is very small, almost non existent, or truly cut such that the sleeve is off the shoulder. Does the gown stay up because of the way the bodice is fit? Do the sleeves stay in place, or do they fall down a lot? Does it drive you crazy? The referenced Italian is one that would seem prone to this problem. http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/Green1.jpg An "English' example http://www.geocities.com/athens/forum/9194/maryqos5.jpg And of course http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein3.html I have tended to make and recommend this type of arrangement for folks like me who are moving around a lot. http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/renesance/rs46.jpg Oh and while poking around for examples, I came across this portrait which I had never seen before. http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/renesance/rs33.jpg Sg ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2C05D.5BC0AAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was wondering for those of you who had made and worn gowns where the cut = of the gown is such that the shoulder piece is very small, almost non existent, = or truly cut such that the sleeve is off the shoulder. 

 

Does the gown stay up because of the way the bodice is fit? Do the sleeves = stay in place, or do they fall down a lot? 

 

Does it drive you crazy?

 

The referenced Italian is one that would seem prone to this problem.   

 

http://www.geociti= es.com/ailithmac/Green1.jpg

 

An “English’ example

 

http://w= ww.geocities.com/athens/forum/9194/maryqos5.jpg

 

And of course

 

http://www.abc= gallery.com/H/holbein/holbein3.html

 

 

I have tended to make and recommend this type of arrangement for folks = like me who are moving around a lot.

 

http://www.voln= y.cz/dodovaseq/renesance/rs46.jpg

 

 

Oh and while poking around for examples, I came across this portrait which = I had never seen before.

 

http://www.voln= y.cz/dodovaseq/renesance/rs33.jpg

 

 

Sg

 

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2C05D.5BC0AAC0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 11:08:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06696 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:08:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KG82tv011381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KG81n2006212; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KG7on2006164 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:07:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18aeSk-0002yy-00; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:07:50 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Cc: Message-ID: <000001c2c09e$2373e9c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C063.77169860" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001a01c2c098$081f82c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:08:13 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C063.77169860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/index.html I tried a polish translator, but it didn't work. Nicole I have emailed you personally because your site is linked. Do you know perhaps? Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C063.77169860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://www.volny.cz/dod= ovaseq/index.html

 

I tried a polish translator, but it = didn’t work.

 

Nicole I have emailed you = personally because your site is linked.  = Do you know perhaps?

 

Sg

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C063.77169860-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 11:22:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06808 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:22:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGM2tv012384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGM1n2012514; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail4.kc.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGLhn2012382 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:21:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail4.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:16:41 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_025A_01C2C06E.76567BB0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 In-Reply-To: <000001c2c09e$2373e9c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:26:58 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C2C06E.76567BB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Czech perhaps? It's certainly something in that area. It's not Hungarian though, that much I know. Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 10:08 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com Subject: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/index.html I tried a polish translator, but it didn't work. Nicole I have emailed you personally because your site is linked. Do you know perhaps? Sg ------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C2C06E.76567BB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Czech=20 perhaps? It's certainly something in that area. It's not Hungarian = though, that=20 much I know.
 
Talia
-----Original Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com=20 [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Saragrace=20 Knauf
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 10:08 AM
To:=20 h-costume@indra.com
Cc: = nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com
Subject:=20 [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language?

http://www.volny.cz/dod= ovaseq/index.html

 

I tried a = polish=20 translator, but it didn’t work.

 

Nicole I = have emailed=20 you personally because your site is linked.  Do you know=20 perhaps?

 

Sg

 

 

= ------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C2C06E.76567BB0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 11:37:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06961 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:36:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGb2tv013608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGb0n2019210; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0KGaWn2018984 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:36:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 98945 invoked by uid 1005); 20 Jan 2003 16:36:26 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.243299 secs); 20 Jan 2003 16:36:26 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.243299 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2003 16:36:25 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com cc: nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? In-Reply-To: <000001c2c09e$2373e9c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Message-ID: <20030120113604.O11823-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:36:29 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Hungarian? The TOC to the left, anyway--I recall seeing markings like that over Cs in hungarian. Drea On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/index.html > > I tried a polish translator, but it didn't work. > > Nicole I have emailed you personally because your site is linked. Do > you know perhaps? > > Sg > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 11:44:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07044 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:44:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGi2tv014180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGi1n2022672; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGhVn2022427 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:43:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18af1E-0007R8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:43:28 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language?-Solved-Duh! Message-ID: <000401c2c0a3$1e185ab0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2C068.71BB0950" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:43:51 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2C068.71BB0950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Nicole kindly pointed out to me that cz stands for Czech Republic. Duh! Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Talia Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 9:27 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? Czech perhaps? It's certainly something in that area. It's not Hungarian though, that much I know. Talia ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2C068.71BB0950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, = Nicole kindly pointed out to me that cz stands for Czech Republic.  = Duh!

 

Sg

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Talia
Sent: = Monday, January 20, = 2003 9:27 AM
To: = h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] = Does anyone recognize this language?

 

Czech perhaps? It's certainly = something in that area. It's not Hungarian though, that much I = know.

 

Talia

 

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2C068.71BB0950-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 11:46:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07082 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:46:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGk1tv014360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGk1n2023602; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGjnn2023487 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:45:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0KGjm110314.; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:45:48 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:45:45 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0KGjnn2023487 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:45:24 +0000 Status: RO As the URL has "cz" in it, it's presumably Czech? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> saragrace@earthlink.net 01/20/03 04:08pm >>> http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/index.html I tried a polish translator, but it didn't work. Nicole I have emailed you personally because your site is linked. Do you know perhaps? Sg ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 11:59:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07187 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:59:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGx8tv015439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGx7n2029548; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:59:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGwln2029397 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-113-25.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.113.25]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOR27097; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:56:50 GMT Message-ID: <006a01c2c0a5$9dc70d40$19714ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <008501c2be80$9ae22b40$890824d9@dan> <009501c2bedb$a26c0a60$54694ed5@pavilion> <002e01c2bf08$9a4434c0$541327d9@dan> <018f01c2bfef$4d42af20$54694ed5@pavilion> <004501c2c081$948edce0$842023d9@dan> <020401c2c085$b63efd80$45634ed5@your1p37d9kihs> <006a01c2c091$b6cd6460$842023d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:01:45 -0000 Status: RO >I appreciate that, and you may have difficulties in buying the Veale book anyway. It is possible to buy most books if you know where to look >But you don't need to; that is what libraries are for. Really I never knew that !!! Once they might have been but libraries in Leicestershire only go to A level standard at best now, so not a lot of hope there. & please do not suggest ILL because I have spent a fortune on ILLs I never get it is FAR cheaper to buy in the long run. >You have still not told me precisely what it is about the 13th century you are interested in, I don't think I can really answer that question without boring the rest of the list as the subjects within the 13th C in which I have an interest are far ranging & deep >a work of scholarship is not going to provide neat little soundbites. I am familiar with acedemic work. Some is better written that others. Giving "it is an acedemic work" as an excuse for a poorly written piece is however not a valid point. There are some well written acedemic works which are a joy to read , others are not. Anyway I won't waste anymore of time (yours or mine) on this as I'm interested in discussing costume (on this list anyhow) not acedemic methology. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 11:59:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07194 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:59:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KH04tv015529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KH03n2029982; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KGxHn2029632 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:59:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:56:03 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 In-Reply-To: <20030120113604.O11823-100000@shell.siscom.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:04:33 -0600 Status: RO Definitely not Hungarian! Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Drea Leed Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 10:36 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? Hungarian? The TOC to the left, anyway--I recall seeing markings like that over Cs in hungarian. Drea On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/index.html > > I tried a polish translator, but it didn't work. > > Nicole I have emailed you personally because your site is linked. Do > you know perhaps? > > Sg > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 12:01:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07212 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:01:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KH20tv015700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KH20n2001200; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KH1Cn2000775 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:01:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-113-25.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.113.25]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOR27310; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:58:47 GMT Message-ID: <007101c2c0a5$e3792760$19714ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030120150142.30904.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fur in dress; was: companies and fur linings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:03:42 -0000 Status: RO >She directly quotes or summarizes evidence from numerous period texts, beginning with 13th century accounts and moving foward through the 14th and 15th century primary sources Thanks Tasha that was the kind of info on the book I was after Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 16:42:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09025 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:42:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KLg8tv009284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:42:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KLg0GX024879; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta06bw.bigpond.com (mta06bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KLfQGX024591 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:41:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.87]) by mta06bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H9188V00.9IT for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:41:19 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.41 ([203.54.114.41]) by bwmam07.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 56/38556304); 21 Jan 2003 07:41:14 Message-ID: <3E2D5D04.B9FC8341@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress References: <001a01c2c098$081f82c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 06:45:25 -0800 Status: RO Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: 7bit Sorry Saragrace - I still haven't worked out how to stop this happening so you'll have to remember your message as best as you can. I have made a few gowns that have very wide necklines (and therefore very small shoulder pieces - of order 1-2 cm wide), and one that was off the shoulder. The trick with wide necklines is to have the bodice fit very well and tightly, the armhole small and high, and the edge of the neckline sitting just a teensy bit over the bony lump where your shoulder joint begins. I have no problem moving, dancing pulling down tents in a dress like this without it falling off my shoulders. The off the shoulder dress was a 1660's style, which was designed to be off the shoulder. The shoulder straps cover the top 5cm or so of the arm. This does make it difficult to move my shoulders (ie I have a fairly restricted arm movement) which is a bit annoying, but the straps don't fall down, mainly I think, because the bodice is boned within an inch of its life. The principal trick is tension I think - if the shoulder straps are under tension they will be less likely to move. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 17:11:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09137 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:11:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KMC4tv011825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:12:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KMC0GX010195; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe30.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KMBqGX010071 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:11:47 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <001a01c2c098$081f82c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <3E2D5D04.B9FC8341@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jan 2003 22:11:47.0291 (UTC) FILETIME=[EC797AB0:01C2C0D0] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:11:45 -0500 Status: RO > The principal trick is tension I think - if the shoulder straps are > under tension they > will be less likely to move. This, in any case, is true of bra straps. I'm a 32A, I don't really need support, so once in a while I don't notice the straps are too loose.... until they fall off my shoulders :-) It never happens when they're tight enough. I'm wondering though - what about fabrics that don't stretch? If you need tension to keep them on your shoulders, won't that restrict your movements, or give you shoulder pains? Or is it loose enough despite the tension not to be a problem? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 17:53:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09323 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:53:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KMr8tv015049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KMr7GX001379; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:53:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KMq1GX000868 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.17f.157f9025 (3858) for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:51:41 -0500 (EST) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: <17f.157f9025.2b5dd77d@aol.com> Subject: Re:[h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_17f.157f9025.2b5dd77d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10637 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:51:41 EST Status: RO --part1_17f.157f9025.2b5dd77d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Definitely Czech. It is very similar to Russian except it isn't written in Cyrillic but with Latin lettering. Find a good Czech dictionary or on line translator and you should have it. I remember once my husband and I were looking for a Brethren Church in Brno and only knew it was opposite the Intercontinental Hotel. We went looking up and down the street not seeing anything that looked like a meeting house, until I spied this arched gateway and at the top it said, "Bratsky Cerkov" which in Russian means "Brethren Church". I just had to do the translating between the Russian Cyrillic I knew to the transliteration of it in Latin letters. Hope it helps. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:26:58 -0600 Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C2C06E.76567BB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Czech perhaps? It's certainly something in that area. It's not Hungarian though, that much I know. Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 10:08 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com Subject: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language? http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/index.html I tried a polish translator, but it didn't work. Nicole I have emailed you personally because your site is linked. Do you know perhaps? Sg --part1_17f.157f9025.2b5dd77d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Definitely Czech.  It is very similar to Russian except it isn't written in Cyrillic but with Latin lettering.  Find a good Czech dictionary or on line translator and you should have it.  I remember once my husband and I were looking for a Brethren Church in Brno and only knew it was opposite the Intercontinental Hotel.  We went looking up and down the street not seeing anything that looked like a meeting house, until I spied this arched gateway and at the top it said, "Bratsky Cerkov"  which in Russian means "Brethren Church".  I just had to do the translating between the Russian Cyrillic I knew to the transliteration of it in Latin letters.

Hope it helps.

Donna Scarfe
Fyne Hats By Felicity
Period Headgear for Past Ages
www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com







From: "Talia" <khanson@kc.rr.com>
To: <h-costume@indra.com>
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language?
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:26:58 -0600
Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C2C06E.76567BB0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Czech perhaps? It's certainly something in that area. It's not Hungarian
though, that much I know.

Talia
  -----Original Message-----
  From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
  Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 10:08 AM
  To: h-costume@indra.com
  Cc: nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com
  Subject: [h-cost] Does anyone recognize this language?


  http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/index.html



  I tried a polish translator, but it didn't work.



  Nicole I have emailed you personally because your site is linked.  Do you
know perhaps?



  Sg


 --part1_17f.157f9025.2b5dd77d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 17:57:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09331 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:57:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KMv1tv015342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KMv1GX003308; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f141.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KMu5GX002844 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:55:59 -0800 Received: from 151.199.137.108 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:55:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.137.108] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jan 2003 22:55:59.0992 (UTC) FILETIME=[199B8780:01C2C0D7] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:55:59 -0500 Status: RO Perhaps how the back of the neckline is cut makes a difference. If it was cut quite high, just below the shoulder line, wouldn't that make it stay up? Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson >From: "Saragrace Knauf" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's >Italian Dress >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:24:31 -0700 > >I was wondering for those of you who had made and worn gowns where the >cut of the gown is such that the shoulder piece is very small, almost >non existent, or truly cut such that the sleeve is off the shoulder. > >Does the gown stay up because of the way the bodice is fit? Do the >sleeves stay in place, or do they fall down a lot? > >Does it drive you crazy? > >The referenced Italian is one that would seem prone to this problem. > >http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/Green1.jpg > >An "English' example > >http://www.geocities.com/athens/forum/9194/maryqos5.jpg > >And of course > >http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein3.html > > >I have tended to make and recommend this type of arrangement for folks >like me who are moving around a lot. > >http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/renesance/rs46.jpg > > >Oh and while poking around for examples, I came across this portrait >which I had never seen before. > >http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/renesance/rs33.jpg > > >Sg > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 18:09:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09389 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:09:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNA2tv016378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNA1GX010028; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KN8xGX009571 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A18AC6260128; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:08:58 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A18A76034C; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:08:58 -0600 Message-ID: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:09:34 -0500 Status: RO I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries on disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 min. our back is hurting. I always thought my pain was from being so tall and having to been over to see the stitching as it went through the presser foot. I sew at the dining room table, which is a good height. It doesn't hurt when I sit at the table to cut. Can anyone offer suggestions as to how to help prevent the backaches... other than tying my back to the chair. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 18:15:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09403 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:15:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNG1tv016886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNG0GX013251; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNFFGX012768 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:15:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18al8M-0000yn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:15:15 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches Message-ID: <000201c2c0d9$d9c27030$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:15:37 -0700 Status: RO I wonder if one of those tilted plastic pieces that tilts the machine towards you would help. I know Nancy's Notions and I think Clothtilde sells them. Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Penny Ladnier >Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 4:10 PM >To: h-costume >Subject: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches > >I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries on >disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 min. >our back is hurting. I always thought my pain was from being so tall and >having to been over to see the stitching as it went through the presser >foot. I sew at the dining room table, which is a good height. It doesn't >hurt when I sit at the table to cut. Can anyone offer suggestions as to how >to help prevent the backaches... other than tying my back to the chair. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 18:30:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09448 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:30:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNU2tv018010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNU1GX019530; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium.btinternet.com (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNTPGX019261 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:29:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-34-86-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.34.86.58] helo=dan) by einsteinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18alM4-0003x9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:29:24 +0000 Message-ID: <007201c2c0dc$5bc3ec60$3a5622d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:33:38 -0000 Status: RO Penny, this may seem an expensive suggestion, but have you considered one of those strange stool/chairs designed to minimise back pain and further damage to the back? They are very difficult to describe, but you practically kneel on them rather than sit on them; they don't have a conventional back at all. A friend has one, and he has found his condition has improved considerably; so much so that he's trying to persuade me to get one for myself. They take a bit of getting used to, but you only have one spine and you need to take care of it, and yourself. best wishes Stevie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches > I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries on > disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 min. > our back is hurting. I always thought my pain was from being so tall and > having to been over to see the stitching as it went through the presser > foot. I sew at the dining room table, which is a good height. It doesn't > hurt when I sit at the table to cut. Can anyone offer suggestions as to how > to help prevent the backaches... other than tying my back to the chair. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 18:32:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09460 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:32:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNX1tv018302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNX0GX020996; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNW5GX020530 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0KNVtKT055219 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:31:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301202331.h0KNVtKT055219@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000201c2c0d9$d9c27030$6601a8c0@mycomputer> from "Saragrace Knauf" at Jan 20, 2003 04:15:37 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:31:54 -0800 (PST) Status: RO another 'tilt' thing that works well is cheap student drafting tables. you can usually find a student getting rid of them for cheap/free, and then you can adjust your sewing surface to tilt to the degree of your comfort. .heather. (i've done this, it worked well for me at the time) > > I wonder if one of those tilted plastic pieces that tilts the machine > towards you would help. I know Nancy's Notions and I think Clothtilde > sells them. > > Sg > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > >Behalf Of Penny Ladnier > >Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 4:10 PM > >To: h-costume > >Subject: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches > > > >I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries > on > >disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 > min. > >our back is hurting. I always thought my pain was from being so tall > and > >having to been over to see the stitching as it went through the presser > >foot. I sew at the dining room table, which is a good height. It > doesn't > >hurt when I sit at the table to cut. Can anyone offer suggestions as > to how > >to help prevent the backaches... other than tying my back to the chair. > > > >Penny Ladnier > >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > >http://www.costumegallery.com > >http://www.costumeclassroom.com > >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > >(http://www.plugit.com)] > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 18:53:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09578 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:53:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNs5tv019910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNs1GX000527; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0KNrdGX000265 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:53:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <200301202353330030005osae>; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:53:33 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030120154540.009fe080@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches In-Reply-To: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:51:55 -0800 Status: RO me too. I have dealt with this for years. Mine was when my son was five months and he will be 20 in a month. The main things are to have your sewing machine at the right height and to have a good chair with good support. I also have my machine on an angled table so that the back is higher than the front. You have to try to sit fairly straight and not slouch. If you had the surgery recently, I can tell you that it took a solid year for me to really recover. the only other thing that I can suggest is they have this device they sell at the state fair. It is a back support and it hooks around your knees. if you can find one of those it might help. and, I hate to say it, but there are days when 15-30 minutes is my best. you just have to do what your body tells you to do. best of luck to you, you have my complete understanding and sympathy. maryann At 06:09 PM 1/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries on >disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 min. >our back is hurting. I always thought my pain was from being so tall and >having to been over to see the stitching as it went through the presser >foot. I sew at the dining room table, which is a good height. It doesn't >hurt when I sit at the table to cut. Can anyone offer suggestions as to how >to help prevent the backaches... other than tying my back to the chair. > >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > >[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners >(http://www.plugit.com)] > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 19:08:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09657 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:08:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L082tv021043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L080GX006994; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f27.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L07OGX006694 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:07:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:07:19 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:07:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jan 2003 00:07:19.0465 (UTC) FILETIME=[105F4990:01C2C0E1] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:07:19 -0800 Status: RO have you considered one of >those strange stool/chairs designed to minimise back pain and further >damage to the back? They are very difficult to describe, but you >practically kneel on them rather than sit on them; they don't have a >conventional back at all We had one in the office where I did my work study in college. It seemed weird at first, but something about the way you are kneeling/sitting really did make hours of paperwork at a desk NOT suited to my height bearable. My Papa got one when I was younger too and swore by it. I can try to find out if my folks remember where they got it if you're interested. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 19:19:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09739 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:19:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0K3tv022120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0K1GX012307; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail016.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail016.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0J5GX011870 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail016.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0L0IxX25525 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:18:59 +1100 Message-ID: <00b301c2c0e2$da5ee830$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:20:07 +1100 Status: RO I always found dining room tables the wrong height for sewing. I have a sewing table which was my nanna's and it's higher than the dining room table, and I use a regular chair at it. My mum bought one of those Horn sewing tables and it came with a chair. The chair is so low that eye level as the needle on the sewing machine. It felt weird at first but I never slouched at the machine and so had less back pain. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ > I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries on > disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 min. > our back is hurting. I always thought my pain was from being so tall and > having to been over to see the stitching as it went through the presser > foot. I sew at the dining room table, which is a good height. It doesn't > hurt when I sit at the table to cut. Can anyone offer suggestions as to how > to help prevent the backaches... other than tying my back to the chair. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 19:37:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09799 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:37:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0c2tv023434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0c1GX019112; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0bdGX019001 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:37:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A65315430112; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:37:39 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A65322640264; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:37:39 -0600 Message-ID: <00c601c2c0e5$627258e0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <007201c2c0dc$5bc3ec60$3a5622d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:38:14 -0500 Status: RO Are you all suggesting one of those ergonomics chairs? I haven't thought about a slanting table before. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 19:45:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09830 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:45:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0j5tv024017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:45:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0j1GX021868; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0iYGX021639 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:44:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a224.in-tch.com [66.62.107.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0L0Rur19996 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:27:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E2C981A.D4B0A8F7@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: fur in dress; was: companies and fur linings References: <20030120133143.67444.qmail@web40906.mail.yahoo.com> <006901c2c091$30835720$842023d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:45:14 -0700 Status: RO My kitties say that they do, indeed, grow their furs so that they stay warm, and can't figure out why I don't do the same, since I *am* a mammal, after all... While cleaning out old emails at work today, I ran across this joke, which immediately of this thread. So, here ya go! --sue, running for safety ;-P > After the Ark had successfully landed on Mt. Ararat, the > survivors went forth. After a while, one of the wives noticed her > father-in-law sitting on the ground and chewing animal hides. Every > now and then, the father-in-law would chew a particularly hirsute hide > and make a notation on a tablet. > > The wife asked her husband what his father was doing, to > which the son replied, "What can I say, there is Noah > counting fur tastes." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 19:48:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09842 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:48:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0n1tv024272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0n0GX023203; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L0m3GX022884 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a224.in-tch.com [66.62.107.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0L0VPr21461 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:31:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E2C98EB.921FD4F3@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches References: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:48:43 -0700 Status: RO I suspect it's an ergonomic thing...like sitting the correct way at one's computer. Especially since it doesn't seem to be the sitting that's bothering you, but the sitting and sewing.... It occurs to me that maybe you could talk to a physical therapist? one who specializes in rehab--getting people to the point where they can go back to work after being injured? The PT might have some recommendations. The littlest things can make the biggest differences, sometimes.... Good luck, Sue Penny Ladnier wrote: > > I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries on > disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 min. > our back is hurting. I always thought my pain was from being so tall and > having to been over to see the stitching as it went through the presser > foot. I sew at the dining room table, which is a good height. It doesn't > hurt when I sit at the table to cut. Can anyone offer suggestions as to how > to help prevent the backaches... other than tying my back to the chair. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 20:03:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09920 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:03:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L141tv025165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L140GX028424; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L13NGX028273 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:03:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AC5A7C1D011A; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:03:22 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AC5A2227023E; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:03:22 -0600 Message-ID: <00dc01c2c0e8$fa7c7000$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3E2C98EB.921FD4F3@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:03:58 -0500 Status: RO Sue, Unfortunately my insurance company says I have used up my life time usage for PT... at 45 yo. I do have to go to a PT to get a tens unit for pain this week. Wondering how the insurance company will like that! I actually stopped sewing clothing on machine about 15 years ago because of the pain. Quilting by machine doesn't take as much out of me. Sewing clothing I can only last 5-10 minutes. I can last 15-30 minutes when quilting because of straight seams. Then I take some pain meds, and go to bed on a heating pad. When I feel better, I start all over again. My neck surgery was three years ago. My friend has had three disks removed from her low back last year and is learning to quilt by machine. I want to offer her some suggestions before she gets into pain from sitting behind the machine. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 20:28:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10052 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:28:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L1S2tv026787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L1S1GX006708; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L1RuGX006646 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:27:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.116] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A057FC0274; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:20:23 -0500 Message-ID: <002f01c2c0ec$c82e7d60$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:31:11 -0500 Status: RO Penny, having just been through my latest round of dealing with this problem, I have invested in a 'sacro cushion" that gives some relief with ordinary chairs. (You might equate it with the 'doughnut' cushions from the past for people with a 'certain problem.') This cushion is designed to distribute weight and pressure on the spine. It can be found at a specialty store for health related appliances, or in a number of "health catalogues." I also find that perching on a high stool is more comfortable than sitting in a low chair. My cutting table is about 36" high and so I don't have to endure that awful bent position that aggravates the discs. I can set my machine on this table also when needed. Good luck, Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 6:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches > I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries on > disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 min. > our back is hurting. I always thought my pain was from being so tall and > having to been over to see the stitching as it went through the presser > foot. I sew at the dining room table, which is a good height. It doesn't > hurt when I sit at the table to cut. Can anyone offer suggestions as to how > to help prevent the backaches... other than tying my back to the chair. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 22:15:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10424 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:15:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L3G2tv003013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L3G0GX011544; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L3ETGX010977 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:14:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from jessica.earthlink.net (bgp381063bgs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.36.17.255]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.09 (built Jan 7 2003)) with ESMTP id <0H9100LD2NNOBB@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:14:24 -0500 (EST) From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches X-Sender: webwarren@earthlink.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030120220436.04236e00@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:10:52 -0500 Status: RO MaryAnn wrote: >the only other thing that I can suggest is they have this device they sell >at the state fair. It is a back support and it hooks around your knees. if >you can find one of those it might help. It's called a "Nada Chair". I find mine useful when I've been on my feet too long... it takes a lot of the stress off my calves when I sit down. Another possibility might be that weighted harness they used to sell that you wear like a backpack, and the weight sets around the lumbar region, supposedly forcing you to sit straight... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 22:23:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10448 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:23:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L3NFtv003414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:23:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L3NEGX013767; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:23:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.communicom.net ([66.94.32.26]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L3M7GX013468 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:22:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.ttlc.net [66.94.32.4] by mail.communicom.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AD2D821007C; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:23:25 -0500 Received: from ttlc.net [140.186.41.220] by mail.ttlc.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.00) id AD2C2C8C0102; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:23:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3E2CBC2C.4FC30D8A@ttlc.net> From: Dot & Lee Fisher X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD TTLC_Internet_Netscape4.5_3 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LeeDotFisher@ttlc.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:19:09 -0500 Status: RO The microscope is the only definitive test, but a test I've never seen mentioned, could be called the "iron test" set your iron on linen and see what happens when you try to iron the fabric. If it sticks or easily scorches, it's not linen or 100% linen. The first "linen" I bought (cut pieces on a table, labled linen) was sticky when I tried to iron it I later discovered a bolt of fabric that looked similar. It was marked 10% linen 90% rayon.. Dot Fisher _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 20 23:28:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10677 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:28:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L4T5tv007187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L4T0GX004816; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd5mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L4SRGX004627 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr4so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.107]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H91005F1R2007@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:27:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml8so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml8so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.152]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9100CB4R209D@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:27:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from orb.shaw.ca (h24-80-194-235.gv.shawcable.net [24.80.194.235]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9100236R1ZSQ@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:27:36 -0700 (MST) From: kris X-Sender: ionization@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030120202425.00bb5e58@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [h-cost] Thai Fisherman pant pattern. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:27:30 -0800 Status: RO A friend of mine has these awesome pants that are called "Thai Fisherman Pants" I've looked all over the web for a diagram or a pattern, but haven't been able to find anything except places selling them. Does anyone have a pattern source or a diagram I could use? I'd borrow my friends pants, but she lives in another city :/ I'm planning on making them to wear for an Asian themed SCA feast, but I don't mind if the pattern isn't that documented :] Thanks! Kris _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 00:46:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11022 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:46:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L5l2tv010890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L5l1GX027841; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L5k0GX027531 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.71.50.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.71.50] helo=earthlink.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18arEU-0005k8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:46:00 -0800 Message-ID: <3E2CDEA2.3060202@earthlink.net> From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:46:10 -0500 Status: RO If you are all talking about the chair I am picturing - how would you use the foot pedal? Doesn't it end up with the feet sort of back, as you sort of kneel? Even a knee pedal, though possible, would be a nuisance, but you really can't, I think, use feet with these. Anne Jennifer Sena wrote: > > have you considered one of > >> those strange stool/chairs designed to minimise back pain and further >> damage to the back? They are very difficult to describe, but you >> practically kneel on them rather than sit on them; they don't have a >> conventional back at all > > > We had one in the office where I did my work study in college. It > seemed weird at first, but something about the way you are > kneeling/sitting really did make hours of paperwork at a desk NOT > suited to my height bearable. > > My Papa got one when I was younger too and swore by it. I can try to > find out if my folks remember where they got it if you're interested. > > > > > > Jennifer Sena > Distant Designs > http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > > I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 02:16:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18113 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 02:15:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L7G2tv014114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L7G0GX020260; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21206.mail.yahoo.com (web21206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0L7FAGX020088 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:15:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030121071510.68842.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.252.64.5] by web21206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:15:10 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <007201c2c0dc$5bc3ec60$3a5622d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:15:10 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Stevie Gamble wrote: > Penny, > this may seem an expensive suggestion, but have you > considered one of > those strange stool/chairs designed to minimise back > pain and further > damage to the back? They are very difficult to > describe, but you > practically kneel on them rather than sit on them; > they don't have a > conventional back at all. I know the gadgets, and I'd also recommend trying one for general purposes, but would it work for operating a sewing machine? As I recall, the semi-kneeling position does indeed have part of your weight on your knees and calves and your feet pointing backwards. How would you operate the foot pedal? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 03:07:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19734 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 03:07:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L883tv015776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L880GX003031; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0L863GX002442 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:06:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030121080558.11925.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:05:58 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030121071510.68842.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:05:58 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Jane Williams wrote: > > I know the gadgets, and I'd also recommend trying one > for general purposes, but would it work for operating > a sewing machine? As I recall, the semi-kneeling > position does indeed have part of your weight on your > knees and calves and your feet pointing backwards. How > would you operate the foot pedal? I think we had this discussion last year or so, or was it on another list? Anyway, there seem to be pedals available that are operated by the elbow or hand or something. I am wondering if we talked about this on the margospattern list? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 03:07:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19797 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 03:07:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L88Ftv015788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:08:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L88EGX003073; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L86hGX002645 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from attbi.com (12-225-255-146.client.attbi.com[12.225.255.146]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003012108063705100pmacbe>; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:06:37 +0000 Message-ID: <3E2CFF8F.9050803@attbi.com> From: Roscelin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Bell belts Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:06:39 -0800 Status: RO I have recently seen pictures and have read about belts of bells that were worn during the 14th C. maybe 15th C. Can anyone help me with further information about this subject? Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 03:30:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04310 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 03:30:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L8S2tv016286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L8S0GX007523; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f17.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L8RLGX007366 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:27:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:27:16 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:27:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jan 2003 08:27:16.0229 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7D63B50:01C2C126] Subject: [h-cost] Backaches/footpedals Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:27:15 -0800 Status: RO >If you are all talking about the chair I am picturing - how would you use >the foot pedal? Doesn't it end up with the feet sort of back, as you sort >of kneel? Even a knee pedal, though possible, would be a nuisance, but you >really can't, I think, use feet with these. You don't need feet. Just mount the foot pedal on the inside of your sewing table and use sideways pressure at the knee. Think of the press here pad at discount grocery stores that are to advance the conveyorbelt with the food on it. My pedal doesn't take much pressure to operate. Once you have the chair, I would think sitting in it and feeling where the easiest spot/best place is for mounting would be the best answer. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 03:53:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25472 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 03:53:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L8s2tv016880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L8s0GX013303; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0L8rJGX013162 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:53:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.28]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H92003SK3CTYJ@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:53:19 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches In-reply-to: <00dc01c2c0e8$fa7c7000$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030121004822.04d9d900@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <3E2C98EB.921FD4F3@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:53:14 -0800 Status: RO >Then I take some pain meds, and go to >bed on a heating pad. When I feel better, I start all over again. Would it help to put the heating pad on first, then start sewing? But my basic suggestion is to get the machine high enough that you don't have to use those back muscles to hold you in position to sew. I'd try sticking some encyclopedia volumes under it. I used to get backaches when I had the machine on a table so low I had to bend over to squint to see what I was sewing. Now I use a higher table, and that doesn't happen. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 10:19:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24584 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:19:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LFIiuH001042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:19:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LEuTGX006329; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:56:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LEkgGX003442 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:46:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-17-49.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.17.49] helo=dan) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18azff-0003t1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:46:35 +0000 Message-ID: <002901c2c15c$7daf7d00$311123d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] Medieval fur for feline fans Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:50:50 -0000 Status: RO Brenda wrote, about >the charming tale > >of Bishop Wulfstan and the absence of the Cat of God. > I don't recall ever hearing this tale... it sounds interesting... I feel sure that all the cats I have ever met would like it to be known that cat fur was a much sought after item, as befits such a purrfect species, though they would take a dim view of their exclusion from la creme de la creme... In the 11th century, when Wulfstan was bishoping in Worcester, clergy of such standing should have worn sable, beaver or fox., but he chose instead to wear the very lowly lambskin. And when people protested that even if he refused to wear sable he could at least wear catskins, he declined, saying "Believe me, men sing oftener of the Lamb of God than the cat of God." All the cats I have ever met would have agreed, on the basis that they are gods themselves... best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 10:23:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24632 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:23:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LFN2tv001382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LFN0hA017589; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail6.kc.rr.com (fe6.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.53]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LFM3hA017177 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail6.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:20:25 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bell belts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 In-Reply-To: <3E2CFF8F.9050803@attbi.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:26:29 -0600 Status: RO Hmmm, if I recall correctly, there are some pictured in Tres Belles Heures des Duc de Berry, which can be found in several places online... Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Roscelin Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:07 AM To: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] Bell belts I have recently seen pictures and have read about belts of bells that were worn during the 14th C. maybe 15th C. Can anyone help me with further information about this subject? Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 10:43:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24765 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:43:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LFh2tv002842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LFh1hA026578; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LFgohA026479 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:42:50 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200301211542.h0LFgohA026479@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc69 ([204.127.198.52]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003012115424405100pnl09e>; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:42:44 +0000 Received: from [205.225.207.97] by rwcrwbc69; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:42:44 +0000 From: mabse@attbi.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: bWFic2VAYXR0YmkuY29t Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:42:44 +0000 Status: RO I used one of these chairs for sewing for years. I can't remember why I stopped, but I started to find that it was too hard on my knees. However, I never had any problem using the foot pedal. I just stuck it under my foot. The advantage of those chairs is that it is very hard to slouch. The better you can control your posture, the better off you are. maryann > If you are all talking about the chair I am picturing - how would you > use the foot pedal? Doesn't it end up with the feet sort of back, as you > sort of kneel? Even a knee pedal, though possible, would be a nuisance, > but you really can't, I think, use feet with these. > > Anne > > > Jennifer Sena wrote: > > > > > have you considered one of > > > >> those strange stool/chairs designed to minimise back pain and further > >> damage to the back? They are very difficult to describe, but you > >> practically kneel on them rather than sit on them; they don't have a > >> conventional back at all > > > > > > We had one in the office where I did my work study in college. It > > seemed weird at first, but something about the way you are > > kneeling/sitting really did make hours of paperwork at a desk NOT > > suited to my height bearable. > > > > My Papa got one when I was younger too and swore by it. I can try to > > find out if my folks remember where they got it if you're interested. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jennifer Sena > > Distant Designs > > http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > > > > I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 10:45:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24780 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:45:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LFj1tv003060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LFj0hA027713; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0LFhbhA027019 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:43:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OpOPdl31VeM+FjhLrf7/r4I="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HN3DKQDU; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:43:06 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bell belts Message-ID: <20030121.074204.1272.5.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:30:29 -0800 Status: RO All I can remember is that they're called "folly bells." Arlys On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:06:39 -0800 Roscelin writes: > I have recently seen pictures and have read about belts of bells that > > were worn during the 14th C. maybe 15th C. Can anyone help me with > > further information about this subject? > > Roscelin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 11:17:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24955 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:17:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LGH5tv006254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LGH1hA014956; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0LGGvhA014912 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:16:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-121-120-22.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.121.120.22 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2003 16:16:56 -0000 Message-ID: <002001c2c168$8b62c220$16787943@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Backaches and illness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:17:07 -0800 Status: RO Penny, I have had chronic back problems for years, I have a degenerated disk in the lower portion of my back, at the waist. The first thing you should do is get up frequently. My doctor said every 20 minutes or so. You don't have to go away, just stand, stretch and change your position (good advice, but I'm not always good about it). You can purchase a "Tilt'table" from Nancy's Notions (and probably several other places) that will tilt the sewing maching a bit forward, to avoid your having to bend your neck while you feed the fabric through, and I wouldn't recommend a fancy chair, just a good one with an adjustable back support. The other thing I had a great deal of success with is a TENS unit. It is an electric stimulation device, and if worn while sewing, is actually like doing back excercises while you sit there. It's been a great relief to me, as well as acupuncture, but now that Kaiser no longer covers that I can't afford it. I hope this isnt' redundant, I haven't been able to read the entire thread. My husband had a massive cerebral hemorrhage on Monday, and we've had a scary week. The power of prayer is amazing though, as he has suffered absolutely no long term damage and absent any finding of aneurism this morning (I'm on my way to the hospital) he will be released to learn how to monitor his blood pressure. It was 298/199 upon admittance to the ER. You guys be good to each other, and to the folks you love. Your life can change in an instant. I do believe everything will be alright, but when someone almost dies, you sure get a new perspective. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "If to do were as easy as to know what were good to do, chapels had been churches, and poor men's cottages princes' palaces." The Merchant of Venice, I, ii - William Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches > I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries on > disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 min. > our back is hurting. I always thought my pain was from being so tall and > having to been over to see the stitching as it went through the presser > foot. I sew at the dining room table, which is a good height. It doesn't > hurt when I sit at the table to cut. Can anyone offer suggestions as to how > to help prevent the backaches... other than tying my back to the chair. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 11:49:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25096 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:49:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LGn2tv009453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LGn1VI004173; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LGmRVI003790 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:48:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A9DA6E5700F8; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:48:26 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A9D91E690156; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:48:25 -0600 Message-ID: <004301c2c16d$004c6d80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01C2C143.1711B040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Fw: history of tomato pincushion Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:49:01 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C2C143.1711B040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A teacher has asked me an interesting question about tomato pin cushions. If you have an answer please write Debbie at dprovencher@lwhs.will.k12.il.us but also share with the list... the answer might be an interesting piece of trivia. Here is her question: Do you know why pincushions are tomatoes? I had a student ask me this and I thought it might be an interesting history to share with my class. Debbie Provencher dprovencher@lwhs.will.k12.il.us ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C2C143.1711B040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A teacher has asked me an interesting question about tomato pin=20 cushions.  If you have an answer please write Debbie = at dprovencher@lwhs.will.k12= .il.us =20 but also share with the list... the answer might be an interesting piece = of=20 trivia.
 
Here is her question:
 
Do you know why pincushions are tomatoes?  = I had a=20 student ask me this and I thought it might be an interesting history to = share=20 with my class.
 
Debbie Provencher
dprovencher@lwhs.will.k12= .il.us
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C2C143.1711B040-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 12:39:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25362 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:39:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LHd3tv014685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LHd1gR002756; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.kc.rr.com (fe1.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LHcjgR002581 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail1.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:33:59 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bell belts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 In-Reply-To: <20030121.074204.1272.5.Cley@juno.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:43:12 -0600 Status: RO Here's a quick little link about folly bells: http://www.virtue.to/articles/bells.html Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bell belts All I can remember is that they're called "folly bells." Arlys On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:06:39 -0800 Roscelin writes: > I have recently seen pictures and have read about belts of bells that > > were worn during the 14th C. maybe 15th C. Can anyone help me with > > further information about this subject? > > Roscelin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 13:30:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25700 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:30:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LIUCtv020283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:30:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LIU4gR005426; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20305.mail.yahoo.com (web20305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0LISTgR004459 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:28:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030121182829.64144.qmail@web20305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.43.195.203] by web20305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:28:29 PST From: Sharon Greany To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1520465173-1043173709=:63696" Subject: [h-cost] Sack Suit. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:28:29 -0800 (PST) Status: RO --0-1520465173-1043173709=:63696 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello everyone, I would like to know if anyone knows what fabric is used for a Sack Suit. All I know, right know about the suit is that It's early 20th century and Edison wore one. My theater is doing the play ' Camping with Henry and Tom". This play is about Herny Ford, Thomas Edison and President Wilson on a campping trip. The gentleman playing Edison needs this suit made for him. We do have a picture of a 'Sack Suit' and know it is make of a light color fabric. Sharon Greany --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1520465173-1043173709=:63696 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hello everyone,

I would like to know if anyone knows what fabric is used for a Sack Suit. All I know, right know about the suit is that It's early 20th century and Edison wore one.

My theater is doing the play ' Camping with Henry and Tom". This play is about Herny Ford, Thomas Edison and President Wilson on a campping trip. The gentleman playing Edison needs this suit made for him. We do have a picture of a 'Sack Suit' and know it is make of a light color fabric.

Sharon Greany


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1520465173-1043173709=:63696-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 13:31:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25711 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:31:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LIV1tv020388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LIV1gR005959; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hitchcock.mail.mindspring.net (hitchcock.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LIUvgR005914 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:30:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.200.142] (helo=wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by hitchcock.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18b3Am-0007rj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:30:56 -0500 Received: from [192.168.167.58] by EarthlinkWAM via HTTP; Tue Jan 21 13:30:56 EST 2003 Message-ID: <4705503.1043173856771.JavaMail.nobody@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> From: Chris Laning To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: history of tomato pincushion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_11199_2115025.1043173856749" X-Mailer: Earthlink Web Access Mail version 3.0 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:32:13 -0800 (PST) Status: RO ------=_Part_11199_2115025.1043173856749 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know the answer, but this question is my classic example of "the things that never get mentioned in documents because at the time they are current, everyone takes them for granted." We all wish that people in the past had thought to write down, somewhere, things like this. Original message attached. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ ------=_Part_11199_2115025.1043173856749 Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; name=MESSAGE.HTML; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=MESSAGE.HTML
A teacher has asked me an interesting question about tomato pin cushions.  If you have an answer please write Debbie at dprovencher@lwhs.will.k12.il.us  but also share with the list... the answer might be an interesting piece of trivia.
 
Here is her question:
 
Do you know why pincushions are tomatoes?  I had a student ask me this and I thought it might be an interesting history to share with my class.
 
Debbie Provencher
------=_Part_11199_2115025.1043173856749-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 13:54:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25835 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:54:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LIs3tv022761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LIs0gR021394; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LIr1gR020789 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A70CB3070128; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:53:00 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A70C2ACA023E; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:53:00 -0600 Message-ID: <00f701c2c17e$6400a880$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20030121182829.64144.qmail@web20305.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sack Suit. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F3_01C2C154.7ACD8C60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:53:30 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F3_01C2C154.7ACD8C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sharon, I have a section about men's fashion and includes a lot of sack suits. http://www.costumegallery.com/1910/Men/Suits/ Also look at the fabrics article. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_00F3_01C2C154.7ACD8C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sharon,
 
I have a section about men's fashion and includes a lot of sack=20 suits.  http://www.costume= gallery.com/1910/Men/Suits/ =20 Also look at the fabrics article.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
  ------=_NextPart_000_00F3_01C2C154.7ACD8C60-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 15:56:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26653 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:56:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LKp4tv004173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LKp2bT000797; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from lutetium.btinternet.com (lutetium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LKo4bT029962 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-17-49.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.17.49] helo=dan) by lutetium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18b5LO-00076s-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:50:02 +0000 Message-ID: <006901c2c18f$438b9360$311123d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [h-cost] 60's large lot on Ebay Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:54:02 -0000 Status: RO Hi all, For anyone into eyepopping 60's stuff, or is costuming a production in that period, there is a large lot at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14074&item=2804 213712 I've bought quite a lot of stuff from this lady, and always been happy with it; she gets an amazing range of things:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 16:09:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26724 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:09:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LL93tv005958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LL91bT002492; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta06bw.bigpond.com (mta06bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.96]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LL8tbT002383 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.81]) by mta06bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta06bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H931EN00.C6S for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:08:47 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.39 ([203.54.114.39]) by bwmam05.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 38/40848014); 22 Jan 2003 07:08:40 Message-ID: <3E2EA6E6.69136CA8@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress References: <001a01c2c098$081f82c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <3E2D5D04.B9FC8341@bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:12:54 -0800 Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > The principal trick is tension I think - if the shoulder straps are > > under tension they > > will be less likely to move. > > This, in any case, is true of bra straps. I'm a 32A, I don't really need > support, so once in a while I don't notice the straps are too loose.... > until they fall off my shoulders :-) It never happens when they're tight > enough. > > I'm wondering though - what about fabrics that don't stretch? If you need > tension to keep them on your shoulders, won't that restrict your movements, > or give you shoulder pains? Or is it loose enough despite the tension not to > be a problem? > No - it's just a very tight, firm fit. I suppose with this sort of thing you have to make sure it's well fitted as any bits in wrong place could be rather uncomfortable. Plus if the straps are sitting on the top of your shoulder joint, not on the side, it won't restrict your arm movements. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 16:13:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26774 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:13:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LLD3tv006337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LLD3bT005580; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta08bw.bigpond.com (mta08bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LLCHbT005121 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.81]) by mta08bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta08bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H931KA00.1WA for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:12:10 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.39 ([203.54.114.39]) by bwmam05.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 38/40851522); 22 Jan 2003 07:12:04 Message-ID: <3E2EA7B2.F4E860F7@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:16:18 -0800 Status: RO Nancy Kiel wrote: > Perhaps how the back of the neckline is cut makes a difference. If it was > cut quite high, just below the shoulder line, wouldn't that make it stay up? > Not necessarily in my experience. Look at those Tudor gowns - the few pics we have of the back show they have a deep V in the back. If you have a high neck at back then vertical tension across the back can help keep the shoulders on. If you have a low back then vertical tension in the straps is what keeps them on. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 16:42:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27011 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:42:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LLg9tv009219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:42:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LLg28M022974; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LLfR8M022624 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:41:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AE86639F00F4; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:41:26 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AE86B260110; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:41:26 -0600 Message-ID: <01b801c2c195$e8ded240$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:41:51 -0500 Status: RO Did anyone notice these two bloopers... I can't believe everyone isn't talking about this!!!!!! Meryl Steep when accepting her award when she first was on stage... people were applauding... Meryl was not showing much cleavage on her low cut dress. She reached her hand in the left side bodice of the dress and moved her breast forward. THEN did the same thing with the other breast. DID she not think the cameras were on her!!!!!!!!! She was standing at a mic on stage!!! Well she did have cleavage after that. I laughed myself silly when I saw her do this. Another young actress accepted an award I can't recall her name... when accepting... part of her beige breast enhancement (maybe an enlargement pad) was showing in her low V cut dress. It wasn't showing just a little either. She didn't correct her problem on stage like Meryl did. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 17:17:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27177 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:17:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LMH5tv012244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LMH18M012340; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LMG48M011814 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.95.28e69e87 (4592) for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:15:55 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <95.28e69e87.2b5f209a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Backaches and illness To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_95.28e69e87.2b5f209a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:15:54 EST Status: RO --part1_95.28e69e87.2b5f209a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/21/03 11:17:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes: > The other thing I had a great deal of > success with is a TENS unit. It is an electric stimulation device, and if > worn while sewing, is actually like doing back excercises while you sit > there. Well, I don't know if it's the same thing, or if it works the same way, but one of those silly electronic abs stimulators seems to help me with my back, when my back aches. I don't know how much it actually does for weightloss or toning, but when I'm sewing I find that it helps. Although...at 18, I really shouldn't be complaining about my back yet. Ah well, back to sewing little embroidered rosettes onto this shawl I'm making to go with my in-progress dress. Christine --part1_95.28e69e87.2b5f209a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/21/03 11:17:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes:

The other thing I had a great deal of
success with is a TENS unit. It is an electric stimulation device, and if
worn while sewing, is actually like doing back excercises while you sit
there. 



Well, I don't know if it's the same thing, or if it works the same way, but one of those silly electronic abs stimulators seems to help me with my back, when my back aches.  I don't know how much it actually does for weightloss or toning, but when I'm sewing I find that it helps.  Although...at 18, I really shouldn't be complaining about my back yet.  Ah well, back to sewing little embroidered rosettes onto this shawl I'm making to go with my in-progress dress.

Christine --part1_95.28e69e87.2b5f209a_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 18:50:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27543 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:50:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LNo2tv020542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LNo08M006406; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LNnt8M006291 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:49:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a246.in-tch.com [66.62.107.46]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LNXGr29400 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:33:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E2DDCC8.21491C89@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] saving web sites for later viewing References: <20030116080810.84365.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> <001201c2bd6c$63c0e9e0$a30477d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:50:32 -0700 Status: RO Lisa, I'm another Sue who'd love a copy, too! --sue from montana with maybe some actual winter snow! hurrah! Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > Did you know there is a niffy little program called "snag a site" that will > capture someone's web site for you so you can view it off line, links and > all? I occasionally use it when a site like Mark Carlson's one on shoes > interests me enough to use off line. Anyone want a copy? I can send it to > anyone in a zip file. I believe it is a public domain program (pretty > sure). It's great for art sites. > Lisa > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 19:02:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27584 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:02:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M021tv021564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M0208M012733; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M01k8M012552 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:01:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a246.in-tch.com [66.62.107.46]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LNj7r05267 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:45:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E2DDF90.832221BA@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. References: <3E249725.24901.B7BFE04@localhost> <3E251A5E.9355.D7CA6B8@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:02:24 -0700 Status: RO Uhm.....Where could an interested person get her own copy of them? --sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Same here. (However, I spend *lots* of time with the H8 Inventories.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 19:03:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27593 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:03:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LNx1tv021310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LNx08M011126; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.kc.rr.com (fe2.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0LNw28M010571 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:58:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail2.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:47:31 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] saving web sites for later viewing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3E2DDCC8.21491C89@in-tch.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:02:29 -0600 Status: RO You can set your web browser to allow offline viewing too. Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:51 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] saving web sites for later viewing Lisa, I'm another Sue who'd love a copy, too! --sue from montana with maybe some actual winter snow! hurrah! Lisa Sinervo wrote: > > Did you know there is a niffy little program called "snag a site" that will > capture someone's web site for you so you can view it off line, links and > all? I occasionally use it when a site like Mark Carlson's one on shoes > interests me enough to use off line. Anyone want a copy? I can send it to > anyone in a zip file. I believe it is a public domain program (pretty > sure). It's great for art sites. > Lisa > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 19:58:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27773 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:58:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M0x7tv025717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:59:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M0x18M008571; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M0wR8M008357 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:58:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-65.56.172.138dial1.saintlouis1.level3.net ([65.56.172.138] helo=hppav) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18b9Dm-0003gX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:58:27 -0500 Message-ID: <03e901c2c1b1$c839d280$8aac3841@hppav> From: "Genie" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: [h-cost] Re: CC21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:01:21 -0600 Status: RO Would anyone going to CC21 in April be interested in getting together, either at one of the panels or maybe lunch one day? Also, what about putting a large H on the name badges to identify one another?? Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 20:03:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27815 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:03:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M142tv026118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M1418M010361; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M13i8M010244 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11853 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:15:52 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC21 In-Reply-To: <03e901c2c1b1$c839d280$8aac3841@hppav> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:15:52 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Genie wrote: > Would anyone going to CC21 in April be interested in getting together, > either at one of the panels or maybe lunch one day? Also, what about > putting a large H on the name badges to identify one another?? Count me in. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 20:19:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27901 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:19:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M1K9tv028514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M1K78M017766; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:20:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0M1JI8M017304 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:19:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCimN/DM1nGV+boMRTucJE5YUDoV8gCJVGw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HN4EG6GP; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:18:25 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC21 Message-ID: <20030121.191250.-241620455.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-8,10-23 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:12:49 -0600 Status: RO Count me in on socializing! I have also requested that the facilities for creating a red 'H' be available at registration. I'm not sure if that will take the form of little red'H' stickers, or if there will simply be a red pen at the table. Karen On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:01:21 -0600 "Genie" writes: > Would anyone going to CC21 in April be interested in getting > together, > either at one of the panels or maybe lunch one day? Also, what > about > putting a large H on the name badges to identify one another?? > > Genie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 20:23:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27938 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:23:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M1O0tv029296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M1O08M019588; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (new-comet.pacifier.com [216.65.150.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M1NH8M019252 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:23:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip50.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.13.50]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0M1NCo29383 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:23:14 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. Message-ID: <3E2D8244.22062.9D26B70@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3E2DDF90.832221BA@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:24:20 -0800 Status: RO Regarding _The Inventories of Henry VIII_: > Uhm.....Where could an interested person get her own copy of them? > --sue I got mine when it first came out (pre-ordered it in fact) from Amazon.uk You'd have to contact them or the publisher to find out if it is still available. Kat Russell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 20:57:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28107 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:57:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M1w3tv004694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M1w18M005266; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M1vO8M004960 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:57:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a218.in-tch.com [66.62.107.18]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0M1ejr24205 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:40:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E2DFAA8.7A11752F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. References: <3E2D8244.22062.9D26B70@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:58:00 -0700 Status: RO Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but I'd need all the normal info (including title ). Thanks, Sue kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > Regarding _The Inventories of Henry VIII_: > > Uhm.....Where could an interested person get her own copy of them? > > --sue > > I got mine when it first came out (pre-ordered it in fact) from > Amazon.uk > > You'd have to contact them or the publisher to find out if it is > still available. > > Kat Russell > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 21:35:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28233 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:35:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M2Z3tv008899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M2Z18M019750; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M2YT8M019631 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:34:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0M31rI3026992 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:01:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0M31rqp026990 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:01:53 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Backaches and illness User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <002001c2c168$8b62c220$16787943@angelap3a8d978> In-Reply-To: <002001c2c168$8b62c220$16787943@angelap3a8d978> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301212201.53322.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0M2YT8M019631 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:01:53 -0500 Status: RO On Tuesday 21 January 2003 11:17 am, Cabbage Rose wrote: [text cut here] > I hope this isnt' redundant, I haven't been able to read the entire thread. > My husband had a massive cerebral hemorrhage on Monday, and we've had a > scary week. The power of prayer is amazing though, as he has suffered > absolutely no long term damage and absent any finding of aneurism this > morning (I'm on my way to the hospital) he will be released to learn how to > monitor his blood pressure. It was 298/199 upon admittance to the ER. > [text cut here too] My prayers go with both of you. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 21:54:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28277 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:54:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M2t2tv010006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M2t18M026385; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M2sK8N026180 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:54:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003012202542105100pm4r9e>; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:54:21 +0000 Message-ID: <005e01c2c1c1$8fefc6e0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <01b801c2c195$e8ded240$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:54:20 -0800 Status: RO I did see the Meryl Streep boob readjustment move -- I loved that she was totally unselfconscious about it! Okay, did Salma Hayek look fabulous or what? She just looked POURED into that dress (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=268&a=0)! I liked Cynthia Nixon's as well (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=227&a=0). Sarah Jessica Parker looked great in her black satin corset and pants (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=233&a=0). Goldie Hawn (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=136&a=0) and Lara Flynn Boyle (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=217&a=0) get my vote for worst dressed. I normally love Cate Blanchett, but she looked pretty dorky (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=30&a=0). - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 22:27:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28416 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:27:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M3S2tv011748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M3S08M007444; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0M3RZ8M007331 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:27:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-122-72-3.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.122.72.3 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2003 03:27:34 -0000 Message-ID: <00b601c2c1c6$34385e70$03487a43@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <95.28e69e87.2b5f209a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Backaches and illness/OT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B3_01C2C183.25E55BE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:27:34 -0800 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B3_01C2C183.25E55BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, a TENS unit is the medical version of those "weight loss" gizmos. = I would NOT recommend using the ones they sell on TV however, as they = are inferior and can cause burning to the skin, etc. A medical unit = runs about $100 or so, and is well worth it. angela (who's hubby is home and recuperating well, YAY!) +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes=20 http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "O! Swear not by the moon, the inconstant moon,=20 That monthly changes in her circled orb, Lest that thy love prove likewise variable." Romeo & Juliet, II, ii - W. Shakespeare - ---- Original Message -----=20 From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Backaches and illness In a message dated 1/21/03 11:17:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, = cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes: The other thing I had a great deal of success with is a TENS unit. It is an electric stimulation device, = and if worn while sewing, is actually like doing back excercises while you = sit there. =20 Well, I don't know if it's the same thing, or if it works the same = way, but one of those silly electronic abs stimulators seems to help me = with my back, when my back aches. I don't know how much it actually = does for weightloss or toning, but when I'm sewing I find that it helps. = Although...at 18, I really shouldn't be complaining about my back yet. = Ah well, back to sewing little embroidered rosettes onto this shawl I'm = making to go with my in-progress dress. Christine ------=_NextPart_000_00B3_01C2C183.25E55BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, a TENS unit is the medical = version of=20 those "weight loss" gizmos.  I would NOT recommend using the ones = they sell=20 on TV however, as they are inferior and can cause burning to the skin,=20 etc.  A medical unit runs about $100 or so, and is well worth=20 it.
 
angela
(who's hubby is home and = recuperating well,=20 YAY!)
+++++
Angela F. = Lazear
Cabbage Rose=20 Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostume= s.com
 
Theatrical Costume Design
"O! = Swear not by=20 the moon, the inconstant moon,
That monthly changes in her circled=20 orb,
Lest that thy love prove likewise variable."
Romeo & = Juliet, II,=20 ii - W. Shakespeare
 
 
-
---- Original Message -----
From:=20 IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 = 2:15=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Backaches = and=20 illness

In a message dated 1/21/03 11:17:49 AM Eastern = Standard=20 Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net=20 writes:

The other thing I had = a great deal=20 of
success with is a TENS unit. It is an electric stimulation = device, and=20 if
worn while sewing, is actually like doing back excercises = while you=20 sit
there. 


Well, I don't know if it's the same = thing, or if it=20 works the same way, but one of those silly electronic abs stimulators = seems to=20 help me with my back, when my back aches.  I don't know how much = it=20 actually does for weightloss or toning, but when I'm sewing I find = that it=20 helps.  Although...at 18, I really shouldn't be complaining about = my back=20 yet.  Ah well, back to sewing little embroidered rosettes onto = this shawl=20 I'm making to go with my in-progress dress.

Christine=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00B3_01C2C183.25E55BE0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 22:35:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28457 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:35:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M3a1tv012249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M3a08M010174; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0M3Zs8M010133 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:35:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030122033554.81823.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:35:54 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001a01c2c098$081f82c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:35:54 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > I was wondering for those of you who had made and > worn gowns where the > cut of the gown is such that the shoulder piece is > very small, almost > non existent, or truly cut such that the sleeve is > off the shoulder. > > Does the gown stay up because of the way the bodice > is fit? Do the > sleeves stay in place, or do they fall down a lot? Mine (Venetian) stay put. I started using the Alcega low cut bodice pattern - or at least my interpretation of what I'm seeing in the book. :) I'm also experimenting with the construction of the shoulder straps themselves. > Does it drive you crazy? No, what drove me crazy, and still does sometimes, is that I'm not used to having something sitting off my shoulders, and despite the portraits showing this, and the fact that the straps stay off my shoulder and don't fall any further, I still keep trying to pull them up! I'm getting better at not doing this though. :) > Oh and while poking around for examples, I came > across this portrait > which I had never seen before. > > http://www.volny.cz/dodovaseq/renesance/rs33.jpg That's a portrait by Gentile Bellini I think, of Caterina Cornaro - a Venetian noblewoman who became the Queen of Cyprus. Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 22:39:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28465 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:39:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M3e2tv012455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M3e18M011553; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20204.mail.yahoo.com (web20204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0M3dU8M011379 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:39:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030122033929.5406.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:39:29 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:39:29 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Nancy Kiel wrote: > Perhaps how the back of the neckline is cut makes a > difference. If it was > cut quite high, just below the shoulder line, > wouldn't that make it stay up? It might. But there are instances (my Venetians for example) where a back cut almost as low as the very low cut front was used. Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 21 23:21:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28619 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:21:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M4M3tv014604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M4M18M026037; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M4LA8M025719 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:21:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from host-66-81-240-186.rev.o1.com ([66.81.240.186]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18bCNw-0008Qx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:21:08 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3E2DFAA8.7A11752F@in-tch.com> References: <3E2D8244.22062.9D26B70@localhost> <3E2DFAA8.7A11752F@in-tch.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Inventories of Henry VIII (WAS: Pinned on stomachers). Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:20:55 -0800 Status: RO At 6:58 PM -0700 1/21/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but I'd >need all the normal info (including title ). >Thanks, >Sue _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: Volume I, The Transcript_ edited by David Starkey, transcribed by Philip Ward and indexed by Alasdair Hawkyard Oxbow Books (http://www.oxbowbooks.com/) carries this in their British branch -- which means that if David Brown Books doesn't have it listed, they can order it for you. I believe Scholars' Bookshelf may also have it (http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/). Oxbow's website says "This vast catalogue of the possessions of the Henry VIII on his death in 1547 contains c.18,000 entries; these range from the Crown jewels to bandages for the kings ulcerated leg! The Inventory provides a huge amount of information for historians on the material success of Henry and his forebears, as well as being of practical help in identifying surviving objects as the king's or otherwise. The transcript is accompanied by a historical introduction, notes on the transcription and an exhaustive index. It will be followed in the future by Volumes II and III, which will contains essays on the contents of the inventory." Boydell & Brewer is the publisher that now has the option on publishing the other volumes. I spoke with their representative at the medieval congress at Kalamazoo last year and they rolled their eyes and said, "We'd be HAPPY to publish the other two volumes if the author would GIVE them to us." So don't hold your breath. 539p (Harvey Miller/Society of Antiquaries 1998) ISBN 1872501893. Hardback. (:P) Price GB £150.00 (that's about $243 plus shipping -- ouch!) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 00:38:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28822 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:38:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M5d4tv018667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M5d18M026196; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M5cr8M026148 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (phil2244.dialup.dandy.net [66.28.137.244]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M5cu7K022011 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:38:57 -0500 Message-ID: <3E2E2F04.7A392E05@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' References: <007201c2bb44$ac54bd00$4b0127d9@dan> <3E2B6930.9017C126@dandy.net> <001e01c2c07a$2763f300$842023d9@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:41:24 -0500 Status: RO Hi, All. I remember somewhat regarding the conversation about the tippets, and, from the postings you have made, Stevie, I can see that you are greatly immersed in the study of Medieval Fur use and wear. Not currently having the access to the sources you are quoting (although I was very near going to the U of Penn Library today on my lunch hour), could you possibly quote the relevant passages again from the documentary sources that give rise to your statement of the ubiquity of fur use in clothing for all classes in the 14th and 15th Centuries? The reason that I am somewhat less than credulous in this case is that the visual evidence that I have seen does not appear to match up with the apparent documentary evidence. By this, I mean to say that I haven't seen many pictures of soldiers and lower class types wearing much in the way of fur, either in England or the Continent. Regardless of the scholarship of the aforementioned authors, which is apparently well done, the visual evidence I have seen (which, up to this point, has been my primary source) does not bear out much use of fur by soldiers and the classes from which soldiers spring. Please bear in mind that I am not attempting to be argumentative, I am merely hesitant to accept the broad statement made, and since you are much more well read in this area than I, and since it was your comment that prompted my question, I didn't think it harmful to ask further into the subject. If there is a reason that the documentary evidence and the visual do not concur, please allow us something in the way of an explanation, if that can be done. Robin has noted on several occasions that the gap between visual and reality can be explained by the symbolic message of the artwork. Is it possible that something like this is the case? Thanks, Mike T. > Hi, > Mike T, Nicole , > Well, unsurprisingly enough, my observations are based on the same > references I quoted in my lengthy posts on the use of fur in the > Middle Ages re Robin's tippets, back in November, _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 01:07:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28980 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:07:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M684tv019945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M6818M006320; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M67h8M006165 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m39.in-tch.com [216.166.191.39]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0M5p3r02396 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:51:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E2E3558.144E522@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventories of Henry VIII (WAS: Pinned on stomachers). References: <3E2D8244.22062.9D26B70@localhost> <3E2DFAA8.7A11752F@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:08:24 -0700 Status: RO *koff, koff* *sputter* I think I'll be saving my money a while for _that_ one! Thanks for the info! --sue Chris Laning wrote: > > At 6:58 PM -0700 1/21/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but I'd > >need all the normal info (including title ). > >Thanks, > >Sue > > _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: Volume I, The Transcript_ > edited by David Starkey, transcribed by Philip Ward and indexed by > Alasdair Hawkyard > > Oxbow Books (http://www.oxbowbooks.com/) carries this in their > British branch -- which means that if David Brown Books doesn't have > it listed, they can order it for you. I believe Scholars' Bookshelf > may also have it (http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/). > > Oxbow's website says "This vast catalogue of the possessions of the > Henry VIII on his death in 1547 contains c.18,000 entries; these > range from the Crown jewels to bandages for the kings ulcerated leg! > The Inventory provides a huge amount of information for historians on > the material success of Henry and his forebears, as well as being of > practical help in identifying surviving objects as the king's or > otherwise. The transcript is accompanied by a historical > introduction, notes on the transcription and an exhaustive index. It > will be followed in the future by Volumes II and III, which will > contains essays on the contents of the inventory." > > Boydell & Brewer is the publisher that now has the option on > publishing the other volumes. I spoke with their representative at > the medieval congress at Kalamazoo last year and they rolled their > eyes and said, "We'd be HAPPY to publish the other two volumes if the > author would GIVE them to us." So don't hold your breath. > > 539p (Harvey Miller/Society of Antiquaries 1998) ISBN 1872501893. Hardback. > > (:P) > > Price GB £150.00 (that's about $243 plus shipping -- ouch!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 02:25:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10447 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:25:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M7Q4tv022946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:26:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M7Q18M002638; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M7P78M002372 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:25:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-122-218.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.122.218]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOS43576; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:25:02 GMT Message-ID: <021a01c2c1e7$cc43d980$da7a4ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <007201c2bb44$ac54bd00$4b0127d9@dan> <3E2B6930.9017C126@dandy.net> <001e01c2c07a$2763f300$842023d9@dan> <3E2E2F04.7A392E05@dandy.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:28:01 -0000 Status: RO >By this, I mean to say that I haven't seen many pictures of soldiers and lower class types wearing much in the way of fur, either in England or the Continent. I tend to think if you were doing much in the way of physical activity esp in England, you would be far too hot in anykind of fur, much colder countries, I would imagine, use fur far more. But even with the climatic differances(between times)a lot of fur in relativly warm climates would seem uncomfortable. OTOH bear in mind some wool clothes would seem to have quite a pile on them in the period (for instance the trimming done by specilists as a method of cleaning) which would give good insulation without the weight and bulk of fur, another down side to fur wearing & activity. The move from hairy fleeces to wooled fleeces (in sheep) over the textile period would also back looking to increased warmth through selective breeding, perhaps ? I'm not aware of any studies in the thermal properties over time from wool types, it could be a interesting study. I would mention , however, that our belief that they needed to keep warm by many layers etc I believe is overstated due to our cultural bias rooted in centrally heated houses and little daily exposure to the elements. Most people I know regularly out in all weathers feel the cold far less and wear less layers, your body adapts. It is possible the fur wearing elite wore furs because they tended to be more inactive and in a consistant temprature more often ? Rain is far more likely to strip one of body heat than the type of cold we get in England. Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 03:15:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12134 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:15:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M8D2tv024165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M8D08M016609; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0M8CH8M016493 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:12:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030122081211.87888.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:12:11 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late Middle Ages 'companies' To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <021a01c2c1e7$cc43d980$da7a4ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:12:11 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > > > I would mention , however, that our belief that they needed to keep warm by > many layers etc I believe is overstated due to our cultural bias rooted in > centrally heated houses and little daily exposure to the elements. Most > people I know regularly out in all weathers feel the cold far less and wear > less layers, your body adapts. I'd like to support this thesis with personal experience: A) I love it when there are a few dry ice cold days in England, I bloom and bounce about happily, never being cold, because this is the kind of cold I am used to, coming from the continent, and can keep easily warm, while my fellow inmates (ooops, inhabitants of England :-) are freezing, but have no problems with the dreaded damp coolness that I can't bear. B) When I came into this country into our sweet little 1711 house with no central heating but proper fire places, I was freezing my bum off, I could never get my room warm enough, even with the extra electric radiator. Now, after 3 years I find it far too awfully drying-out hot anywhere in the houses and flats I go to in Germany, while I have no problems anymore in my room in England. Simple adaptation I'd say. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 03:24:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17937 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:24:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M8M2tv024504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M8M18M019096; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0M8L08M018835 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:21:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030122082054.80492.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:20:54 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E2D5D04.B9FC8341@bigpond.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:20:54 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Claire Clarke wrote: > > The off the shoulder dress was a 1660's style, which was designed to be > off > the shoulder. The shoulder straps cover the top 5cm or so of the arm. > This does > make it difficult to move my shoulders (ie I have a fairly restricted > arm movement) > which is a bit annoying, but the straps don't fall down, mainly I think, > because the > bodice is boned within an inch of its life. The samegoes for my 1660s dress and everyone else's in the group. The trick isnot in the straps at all, they need no tension, at least in ths period, because the bodices were fully boned, which means there is no way anything can move on the body at all, not up, not down, not sideways, nothing, it is like a Victorian corset in a way, if that makes sense. The green dress that you showed us looks as if its bodice was boned too. We re-creaters are not the only ones with the problem of not being able to move the arms very much. That's the whole point, one wasn't. This is why I have yet to see a representation of a woman who does any kind of physical work, wearing an off-the-shoulder bodice in the 1650s, 60s and 70s. I am currently researching/writing on the gender implications rearding those gowns. All will be revealed in appr. 5 years time. *laughs* Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 04:17:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29354 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:17:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M9F4tv025886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M9F28M001640; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M9Eb8M001529 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:14:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id BAA25229 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:37:18 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200301220937.BAA25229@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Backaches and illness Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:37:18 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "Cabbage Rose" wrote: [...] > and I wouldn't recommend a fancy chair, just a good one > with an adjustable back support. Or simply a straight, high back. Then you add your own lumbar support such: Buy one of those open-cell foam pillow forms that's cylinder shaped. Use an electric carving knife to slice it lengthwise down the middle (you now should have two D-shaped sections). Cover those with any old fabric. Get a piece of elastic that's at least 3/4" wide and long enough to go around the back of the chair and attach to the ends of your new lumbar support. Attach the elastic by either sewing or safety pins (that's what I did, it's easier to adjust if you get a different chair later). Sit in the chair and move your new support up and down til it hits the correct spot for _your_ back. At this point, I pinned the elastic to the sides of the chair to keep it in the right spot. Cheap, and you get two new back supports for the cost of one pillow form. You'll still need to sit up straght, which is why you should consider either raising the height of your machine or lowering the height of your chair. It'll feel odd because we're all used to being high up above our work surfaces. However, it means you don't have to bend or slouch to see your work. I've done this with both my sewing and computer work areas, and I'm no longer getting those nasty tingling feelings in my legs and feet from pinched nerves. Oh, and make sure your feet rest flat on the floor. I'm very short, and _that_ has also caused me problems. > I hope this isnt' redundant, I haven't been able to read the entire thread. > My husband had a massive cerebral hemorrhage on Monday, and we've had a > scary week. The power of prayer is amazing though, as he has suffered > absolutely no long term damage and absent any finding of aneurism this > morning (I'm on my way to the hospital) he will be released to learn how to > monitor his blood pressure. It was 298/199 upon admittance to the ER. Yeowch. Make sure your husband gets a battery of cognitive tests done. When I had a cerebral hemorrhage, the damage was very subtle. I didn't really notice it until I realized I was reading much slower than was normal for me. Then I tried reading sheet music (something I never did much anyway) and realized it was all gobblety-gook. It's taken several years and some retraining for me to be able to read music or handle higher maths. But it was several weeks after the event that I really noticed that there was lasting damage. I hope your husband got off without _any_. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 04:28:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09118 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:28:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M9Q2tv026205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M9Q18M004246; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f65.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M9Pg8M004179 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:25:37 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:25:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: 19cWoman@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2003 09:25:37.0516 (UTC) FILETIME=[392DFAC0:01C2C1F8] Subject: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:25:37 -0800 Status: RO I know this isn't "historically oriented" in toto, but my insulin pump arrives tomorrow and I'm getting a new lease on life. I need to know how the device may impact my ability to wear certain eras, or if anyone else has one and tips on how to deal with it. Modern clothing is no problem because there are so many styles to choose from, but I will have a pager sized device attached to my midsection from now on and I may have to rethink my fashions. I know I'm not the only diabetic costumer around. Any advice? Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 05:01:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09183 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:01:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M9x3tv027228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M9x18M012040; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M9wQ8M011894 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 02:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.28]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9400D250WARC@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:55:27 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC21 In-reply-to: <20030121.191250.-241620455.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030122011244.00e03f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:13:29 -0800 Status: RO >Count me in on socializing! I have also requested that the facilities for >creating a red 'H' be available at registration. I'm not sure if that >will take the form of little red'H' stickers, or if there will simply be >a red pen at the table. Lower case 'h', as in [h-cost]. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 05:54:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09329 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:54:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MAo3tv029368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:50:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MAo08M020087; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail011.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail011.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.139]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MAnp8M020030 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:49:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail011.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0MAnkX23832 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:49:46 +1100 Message-ID: <013d01c2c204$24e32980$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <20030122033554.81823.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [h-cost] Mens Trousers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:50:57 +1100 Status: RO Can anyone tell me where to find a pattern for high-waisted men's trousers in a Victorian/Edwardian style? Thanks Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 07:35:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09593 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:35:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MCa4tv002700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MCa18M014402; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MCZY8O014300 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.28]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H94008GC8B8FK@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:35:34 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens Trousers In-reply-to: <013d01c2c204$24e32980$18a231d2@valadan> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030122043332.0525e2a0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030122033554.81823.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:34:10 -0800 Status: RO >Can anyone tell me where to find a pattern for high-waisted men's trousers >in a Victorian/Edwardian style? I found some in the Wisconsin Historical Society pattern for a men's sack suit. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 07:36:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09597 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:36:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MCaRtv002714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:36:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MCaQ8M014494; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MCZY8M014300 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.32.28]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H94008GC8B8FK@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:35:33 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030122042940.00d677f0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:33:07 -0800 Status: RO >I know this isn't "historically oriented" in toto, but my insulin pump >arrives tomorrow and I'm getting a new lease on life. I need to know how >the device may impact my ability to wear certain eras, or if anyone else >has one and tips on how to deal with it. Modern clothing is no problem >because there are so many styles to choose from, but I will have a pager >sized device attached to my midsection from now on and I may have to >rethink my fashions. I know I'm not the only diabetic costumer >around. Any advice? Every period has some loose-fitting garments, even if they are thought of as 'maternity' garments. The 1860s had the paletot. The 1940s-50s had the swing coat. the 1950s-60s had the trapeze dress. The 1890s had the box coat. I don't know what the 1880s had, but a dolman wrap ought to work nicely. I can't think of any others offhand, but a little research should turn up something for any period you do. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 08:02:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09647 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:02:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MD33tv003431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:03:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MD318M020647; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MD2t8M020605 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:02:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (12-225-18-223.client.attbi.com[12.225.18.223]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003012213024900100hmml2e>; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:02:50 +0000 Message-ID: <004101c2c216$3c326580$df12e10c@attbi.com> From: "dshoover" To: References: <4.3.1.2.20030122042940.00d677f0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:00:26 -0800 Status: RO The only problem that I see is where you are going to put the pump. Most people put it in their pocket or wear a side pouch to put it in./ The pump is connected to you by very small tubing that is about 3 feet long with a very small needle on one end that sets almost flat against the abdomen. when inserted correctly A corset would be an advantage to help prevent accidentally pull the tubing apart. Ps don't go swimming with the pump on they haven't come up with a water proof one yet. It is very easy to turn the pump off and disconnect it for short periods. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 4:33 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question > > >I know this isn't "historically oriented" in toto, but my insulin pump > >arrives tomorrow and I'm getting a new lease on life. I need to know how > >the device may impact my ability to wear certain eras, or if anyone else > >has one and tips on how to deal with it. Modern clothing is no problem > >because there are so many styles to choose from, but I will have a pager > >sized device attached to my midsection from now on and I may have to > >rethink my fashions. I know I'm not the only diabetic costumer > >around. Any advice? > > Every period has some loose-fitting garments, even if they are thought of > as 'maternity' garments. The 1860s had the paletot. The 1940s-50s had the > swing coat. the 1950s-60s had the trapeze dress. The 1890s had the box > coat. I don't know what the 1880s had, but a dolman wrap ought to work > nicely. I can't think of any others offhand, but a little research should > turn up something for any period you do. > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 08:10:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09672 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:09:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDA3tv003599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDA18M022561; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MD9Z8M022452 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net ([10.116.0.122]) by scanmail2.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:07:40 -0700 Received: from scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122] by scanmail2.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A79CFEDB00EC; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:07:40 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:07:39 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mens Trousers Message-ID: <000701c2c217$409ea3d0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <013d01c2c204$24e32980$18a231d2@valadan> Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:07:43 -0600 Status: RO Laughing Moon's California Pants is a great pattern, all sizes included. Kim http://www.lafnmoon.com/order.htm -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Karen Root Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 4:51 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Mens Trousers Can anyone tell me where to find a pattern for high-waisted men's trousers in a Victorian/Edwardian style? Thanks Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 08:18:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09727 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:18:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDJ9tv003919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDJ38M025141; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDIP8M024928 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:18:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0MDINMw005895 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:18:23 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers In-Reply-To: <01b801c2c195$e8ded240$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:18:23 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Didn't watch them... but that's too funny! Maybe the elegant Ms. Streep is just so used to being on camera that she wasn't thinking about it? (Kinda like scratching your nose...) -- Mara On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Meryl Steep when accepting her award when she first was on stage... people > were applauding... Meryl was not showing much cleavage on her low cut dress. > She reached her hand in the left side bodice of the dress and moved her > breast forward. THEN did the same thing with the other breast. DID she not > think the cameras were on her!!!!!!!!! She was standing at a mic on stage!!! > Well she did have cleavage after that. I laughed myself silly when I saw > her do this. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 08:21:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09746 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:21:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDM4tv004045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:22:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDM38M026003; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDKx8M025700 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18bKoM-0004qC-00; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:20:58 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 18bKoM-00034I-00; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:20:58 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens Trousers In-Reply-To: <013d01c2c204$24e32980$18a231d2@valadan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:20:58 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Karen Root wrote: >Can anyone tell me where to find a pattern for high-waisted men's trousers >in a Victorian/Edwardian style? Past Patterns has a pair of mid-19th century trousers: #014: Classic Plain-Cut Summer Trousers Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 08:32:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09788 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:32:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDX2tv004574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:33:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDX18M028928; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MDW18M028697 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13834 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:44:11 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Followup on fur use by living history groups Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:44:11 -0600 (CST) Status: RO I happened to be talking with Liz Johnson, one of the heads of La Belle Compagnie, and I asked her about the lack of fur in their group. She wrote back the following, and gave me permission to pass it on to this list. (Some of you may remember Liz; she's been on this list before, but is not right now.) Her reply: << Your correspondent is absolutely right about the absence of fur. We're unhappy about it too, but face two issues. First, we absolutely won't use fake fur, as it doesn't fool anyone at the distances where we work with the public; and investing in the real stuff has had to take a back seat to other things. Second, we don't have anyone who knows much about working with real fur, and don't feel we've done enough research to know how best to use it -- in terms of what modern furs to use, how to maintain social distinctions, and even where/when/how it would most "typically" be used. So we're constrained by one of our fundamental rules, "right or not at all" -- till we know how to use *real* fur correctly, we're not going to use it half-baked. Not all garments were furred, so it's not *wrong* to have garments without -- but in terms of overall presentation, she's right, it's wrong to have no fur anywhere. It's one of the many, many things we want to improve ;-) If anyone wants to get into an offline discussion of whether, when, where, and how -- I'd be delighted. I can only learn! >> And yes, Stevie, I passed her your two book citations, and she sends her thanks. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 09:32:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10235 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:32:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MEWOtv007320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MEW38M016813; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MEVe8M016633 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:31:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs ([213.78.125.250]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AOS96101; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:31:34 GMT Message-ID: <01d201c2c222$f2240a40$13774ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: , "LIST 75" <75years@egroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] More Fur Refs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:31:24 -0000 Status: RO For those wishing to look deeper into fur, I found these fur refs, which are fairly recent. I've not read them so cannot vouch for any of them or give greater detail sorry. I've also included a list I have of Sumptuary law refs, which I missed of I think last time I posted some Mel Sumptuary Laws: Maria A. Ceppari Ridolfi and Patrizia Turrini, _Il Mulino delle vanita`: lusso e cerimonie nella Siena medievale, con l'edizione dello Statuto del Donnaio (1343)_ Siena, c1993 Baldwin, Frances Elizabeth. _Sumptuary Legislation and Personal Regulation in England_. John Hopkins Univ. Studies in Historical and Political Science, 44th ser., No. 1. Baltimore: The Johns Hopkins P, 1926. _The Statutes of the Realm_. Vol. 1. London: Dawsons of Pall Mall, 1910; rpt. 1963. For 1363 Sumptuary Laws, see pp. 380-82. Diane Owen Hughes, "Sumptuary Law and Social Relations in Renaissance Italy" in John Bossy,ed. _Disputes and Settlements: Law and Human Relations in the West_. Cambridge, 1983. Fur and the Fur Trade: Hodges, Laura F. "A Reconsideration of the Monk's Costume." _Chaucer Review_. 26.2 (1991): 133-46. Robert Delort, Le commerce des fourrures en Occident a la fin du moyen age: vers 1300-vers 1450. 2 vols. Rome: Ecole francaise de Rome, 1978 Janet Martin, Treasure of the Land of Darkness: the Fur Trade and its significance for Medieval Russia, New York: Cambridge, 1987 Stella Mary Newton, Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince: A Study of the Years, 1340-1365 Textiles, furs and liveries: a study of the material culture of the Court of Edward I (1272-1307). Lachaud, F., 1992, A9d D.Phil., Oxford, 42-0246 England and the continent in the tenth and early eleventh century. Shepherd, M.A., 1994, A9g Ph.D., Lancaster, 45-9096 Part 3 deals with trade in comestibles, raw materials, artefacts, slaves and a variety of luxury goods such as silk, spices and furs. 'Pelze, Rauchwaren' (=fur) in the "Lexikon des Mittelalters", 1994, Bd. VI, S. 1866-1868. It gives also a good bibliographie of recent german publications on this subject This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 09:39:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10262 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:39:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MEd5tv007688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:39:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MEd28M019112; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MEcN8M018863 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:38:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.115] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AB1415390202; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:30:44 -0500 Message-ID: <003701c2c224$496d3460$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <20030122082054.80492.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:41:01 -0500 Status: RO Please excuse my bumbling computer skills, Kathleen here chiming in on the subject-observations. I find the same construction in the mid-19th Century. I have two bodices from the 1850s in which the construction is such that the wearer can only lift arms high enough to assume a dance position. Otherwise, my daughter who has modeled one reports that it wears akin to a strait jacket. Definitely not 'work' clothes. If you have observed or used any of the patterns of the1950s,for gowns or dressy dresses, . the cut and construction techniques insure that the gown will be off the shoulder and stay where it is intended. As has been suggested, there is a narrowing of the back in general and the rest of the bodice will be unforgivably fitted. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 3:20 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress > --- Claire Clarke wrote: > > > > The off the shoulder dress was a 1660's style, which was designed to be > > off > > the shoulder. The shoulder straps cover the top 5cm or so of the arm. > > This does > > make it difficult to move my shoulders (ie I have a fairly restricted > > arm movement) > > which is a bit annoying, but the straps don't fall down, mainly I think, > > because the > > bodice is boned within an inch of its life. > > The samegoes for my 1660s dress and everyone else's in the group. The trick > isnot in the straps at all, they need no tension, at least in ths period, > because the bodices were fully boned, which means there is no way anything can > move on the body at all, not up, not down, not sideways, nothing, it is like a > Victorian corset in a way, if that makes sense. The green dress that you showed > us looks as if its bodice was boned too. > We re-creaters are not the only ones with the problem of not being able to move > the arms very much. That's the whole point, one wasn't. This is why I have yet > to see a representation of a woman who does any kind of physical work, wearing > an off-the-shoulder bodice in the 1650s, 60s and 70s. I am currently > researching/writing on the gender implications rearding those gowns. All will > be revealed in appr. 5 years time. *laughs* > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 09:55:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10295 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:55:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MEtDtv008531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MEt18M024856; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MEsM8M024621 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:54:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0MEsKMw019333 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:54:20 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question In-Reply-To: <004101c2c216$3c326580$df12e10c@attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:54:20 -0500 (EST) Status: RO When I was recovering from surgery a bit more than a year ago I had some awful drainage thingies that were always difficult to pin properly to the hospital gowns in the right position. When I got out of the hospital, I saw a sort of elastic belt with pockets meant for just such a problem, but by then I didn't need them any more. But I imagine that if the lines were long enough, an insulin pump could be held in a belt pouch worn at, say, hip level; that might take it down below the waistline... And it could be made of pretty materials (even though nobody would ever need to see it), just for fun, too. I don't know if the pump has to be worn at waist level, or not, but it's an idea... -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 10:22:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10491 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:22:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MFMBtv010063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:22:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MFM932005068; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:22:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MFLR32004854 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:21:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-10.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.10]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id h0MFLQw28462 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:21:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003a01c2c22a$2ee26880$6b07d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <20030122143901.19102.46684.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Mens Trousers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:22:47 -0500 Status: RO There is a terrific pattern available on our website by Laughing Moon, called California Pants. Now, don't be put off by the name, as these trousers are in fact historically accurate for mid to late Victorian, high waisted, with a huge sizing range and fitting options for portly men and for ladies as well. There's also the Classic Cut Trousers by Past Patterns, which we also carry. It comes in two sizing arrays and is suitable for mid to late Victorian. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 10:36:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10534 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:36:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MFa4tv011101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MFa032010990; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MFZG32010572 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003012215350905100pn08ne>; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:35:10 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030122073204.009fd3e0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:33:30 -0800 Status: RO can't you just make a little purse/pouch that hangs from around your waist? Margo's accessory pattern has one that I think would be great. you could coordinate it with your costume. good luck on this. I hope it helps. maryann At 01:25 AM 1/22/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I know this isn't "historically oriented" in toto, but my insulin pump >arrives tomorrow and I'm getting a new lease on life. I need to know how >the device may impact my ability to wear certain eras, or if anyone else >has one and tips on how to deal with it. Modern clothing is no problem >because there are so many styles to choose from, but I will have a pager >sized device attached to my midsection from now on and I may have to >rethink my fashions. I know I'm not the only diabetic costumer >around. Any advice? > > > >Jennifer Sena >Distant Designs >http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > >I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 11:09:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10715 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:09:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MG92tv014018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MG9032027834; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MG8532027297 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:08:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (12-225-18-223.client.attbi.com[12.225.18.223]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <200301221607590030009nsse>; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:07:59 +0000 Message-ID: <002e01c2c230$13e21e80$df12e10c@attbi.com> From: "dshoover" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:05:25 -0800 Status: RO Only it you could get easy access to it, because to have to program a bolus dose of insulin just before you eat a meal or smack{within 5 mins.} Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin & Mara Riley" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question > When I was recovering from surgery a bit more than a year ago I had some > awful drainage thingies that were always difficult to pin properly to the > hospital gowns in the right position. When I got out of the hospital, I > saw a sort of elastic belt with pockets meant for just such a problem, but > by then I didn't need them any more. > > But I imagine that if the lines were long enough, an insulin pump could be > held in a belt pouch worn at, say, hip level; that might take it down > below the waistline... And it could be made of pretty materials (even > though nobody would ever need to see it), just for fun, too. I don't know > if the pump has to be worn at waist level, or not, but it's an idea... > > -- Mara > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 11:15:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10733 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:15:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGA1tv014120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGA132028370; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (new-asteroid.pacifier.com [216.65.150.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MG9o32028276 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from grendal2 (ip9.100-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com [207.173.100.9]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0MG9kQ00479 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:09:47 -0800 (PST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. Message-ID: <3E2E5213.13309.CFE2B6E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3E2DFAA8.7A11752F@in-tch.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:10:59 -0800 Status: RO The title is _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: the transcript_. It's edited by David Starkey. It's published by Harvey Miller Publishers for The Society of Antiquaries of London. ISBN 1-872501-89-3. I hope that helps. ;) Kat > Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but I'd > need all the normal info (including title ). Thanks, Sue > > kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > > > Regarding _The Inventories of Henry VIII_: > > > Uhm.....Where could an interested person get her own copy of them? > > > --sue > > > > I got mine when it first came out (pre-ordered it in fact) from > > Amazon.uk > > > > You'd have to contact them or the publisher to find out if it is > > still available. > > > > Kat Russell > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 11:20:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10743 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:20:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGK2tv015314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGK032004487; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGJZ32004185 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.09 (built Jan 7 2003)) with ESMTP id <0H94006QAIMXCS@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:18:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3E2EC483.5070705@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Insulin pump Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:19:15 -0600 Status: RO I have created several costumes for people that wore the pump at our local fair. We created a spandex pocket that velcro'ed shut, and using the really wide velcro, we covered the back of the pocket with the sticky velcro, and then in several places on the underside of the article we sewed in the soft velcro so it could be moved as needed. We also included velcro loops where you could gather up the extra tubing and have that attached as well so there was less chance of it coming loose. You can be pretty creative where you hide it. For Elizabethan we put the pump in the back attached to the lower edge of her corset. It rode right under all her cartridge pleats and did just fine. Just make sure that you use the large velcro. -- Linda Thompson Visit www.seams-to-be.com where Attitude is Everything _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 11:28:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10766 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:28:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGS2tv016069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGS132008898; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0M5O18M020325 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003012205235505100pml01e>; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:23:55 +0000 Message-ID: <001b01c2c1d6$75255c20$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:23:54 -0800 Status: RO I'm going to be in Philadelphia for 5 days at the end of this week, and I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on costume-related things to see? I know that the Philadelphia Museum of Art has a costume collection, but I can't tell from their website whether they regularly exhibit anything -- does anyone know? - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 11:32:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10795 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:32:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGW1tv016457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGW132011082; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0MGVV32010793 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:31:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 78269 invoked by uid 1005); 22 Jan 2003 16:31:23 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.093867 secs); 22 Jan 2003 16:31:23 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.093867 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2003 16:31:22 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see? In-Reply-To: <001b01c2c1d6$75255c20$befc8218@hopperflop2> Message-ID: <20030122113039.B56807-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:31:26 -0500 (EST) Status: RO How funny, I'm going to be in Philly this weekend too. :) Seeing friends, so I doubt I'll have much time to go museuming, but I'd love to know what costume-related exhibits are in town, too. Thanks, Drea On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > I'm going to be in Philadelphia for 5 days at the end of this week, and I'm > wondering if anyone has any advice on costume-related things to see? I know > that the Philadelphia Museum of Art has a costume collection, but I can't > tell from their website whether they regularly exhibit anything -- does > anyone know? > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 11:48:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10906 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:48:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGm2tv018221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGm032020735; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MGlk32020612 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:47:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.77.240.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.77.240] helo=earthlink.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18bO2T-0006s5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:47:45 -0800 Message-ID: <3E2ECB3D.1090103@earthlink.net> From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:47:57 -0500 Status: RO First, congratulations on the new lease on life! Hmm... about the size of a pager... this sound very like a mic pac. Theatrical costumers? I've never had to put one under a corset... Now, I don't know anything about the pump. Does it have to stay in a certain place? If not, location can help. (I know the needle stays put...) I've put mics in the small of the back - you can sometimes get away with a lot, there. And I've seen them tucked into hip pads. A close fitting undergarment is best, actually, because it doesn't slide around - try sewing a pocket in where you want it. Will you have to fit a corset over it, or can you slip a tube through an opening? Perhaps pad a little around it - you might prefer a "generous" look to a "bumpy" one... *S* and that might be more comfortable. If I'm on the wrong track, sorry... but if this helps, I'm sure we have people who've mic'd more shows than I have, and can help more. Most of my venues have been small. Good luck with it! Anne Jennifer Sena wrote: > I know this isn't "historically oriented" in toto, but my insulin pump > arrives tomorrow and I'm getting a new lease on life. I need to know > how the device may impact my ability to wear certain eras, or if anyone > else has one and tips on how to deal with it. Modern clothing is no > problem because there are so many styles to choose from, but I will have > a pager sized device attached to my midsection from now on and I may > have to rethink my fashions. I know I'm not the only diabetic costumer > around. Any advice? > > > > Jennifer Sena > Distant Designs > http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > > I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 14:41:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12326 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:41:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MJfCtv007069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:41:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MJf2Dk006494; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40907.mail.yahoo.com (web40907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0MJefDk006275 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:40:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030122194036.2857.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:40:36 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030122190010.10815.29357.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] re: Philadelphia things to see? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:40:36 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Kendra wrote: I know that the Philadelphia Museum of Art has a costume collection, but I can't tell from their website whether they regularly exhibit anything -- does anyone know? Unfortunately, Kendra, most of that collection is hardly ever on display, including right now. I was there last weekend with some re-enactor friends and we had to content ourselves with their reasonably good arms and armour collection, as well as their interesting Medieval art and crafts collection (a number of complete rooms transplanted from Europe to the museum -- gorgeous woodworking). If you have a taste for 19th century art, however, I'd recommend you make a reservation to see the Barnes Foundation collection. It's one of the world's largest collections of Impressionism, and there's a sprinkling of other noteworthies in there too, like Picasso. Here's the link: http://www.barnesfoundation.org/ -Tasha __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 14:58:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12452 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:58:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MJw2tv008580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MJw1Dk016126; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MJv7Dk015583 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:57:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.84.7e16fa7 (3932) for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:56:51 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <84.7e16fa7.2b605183@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Philadelphia things to see? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:56:51 EST Status: RO _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 15:01:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12476 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:01:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MK03tv008738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MK03Dk017276; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MJxVDk016884 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:59:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.50.16f74928 (3932) for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:59:23 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <50.16f74928.2b60521b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Philadelphia things to see? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_50.16f74928.2b60521b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:59:23 EST Status: RO --part1_50.16f74928.2b60521b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry about the blank message I just sent--hit the wrong button! If you are interested in early 19th century apparel, I suggest you visit the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts, which has John Lewis Krimmel's "View of Centre Square on the 4th of July." It is one of my very favorite paintings for looking at how urban Americans really dressed in the early 19th century. Ann Wass --part1_50.16f74928.2b60521b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry about the blank message I just sent--hit the wrong button!

If you are interested in early 19th century apparel, I suggest you visit the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts, which has John Lewis Krimmel's "View of Centre Square on the 4th of July."  It is one of my very favorite paintings for looking at how urban Americans really dressed in the early 19th century.
Ann Wass --part1_50.16f74928.2b60521b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 15:59:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12799 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:59:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MKw3tv014458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MKw1Dk021552; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21404.mail.yahoo.com (web21404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0MKvKDk021163 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:57:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030122205719.67236.qmail@web21404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.122] by web21404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:57:19 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC21 To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030122011244.00e03f00@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:57:19 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Katya wrote: > Lower case 'h', as in [h-cost]. After all, a red "H" might get you confused for a hologram, even if it is nowhere near your forehead! Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 16:14:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12940 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:14:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MLE2tv016028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MLE1Dk001077; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta02bw.bigpond.com ([144.135.24.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MLD7Dk029993 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:13:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.69]) by mta02bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta02bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H94W9N00.EW8 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:12:59 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.6 ([203.54.114.6]) by bwmam01.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 2/39631756); 23 Jan 2003 07:12:53 Message-ID: <3E301514.AC0C6B78@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress References: <20030122033554.81823.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:15:16 -0800 Status: RO Bella wrote: > --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > I was wondering for those of you who had made and > > worn gowns where the > > cut of the gown is such that the shoulder piece is > > very small, almost > > non existent, or truly cut such that the sleeve is > > off the shoulder. > > > > Does the gown stay up because of the way the bodice > > is fit? Do the > > sleeves stay in place, or do they fall down a lot? > > Mine (Venetian) stay put. I started using the Alcega > low cut bodice pattern - or at least my interpretation > of what I'm seeing in the book. :) I'm also > experimenting with the construction of the shoulder > straps themselves. > Hmmm, that makes sense. The straps on Alcega's bodices are angled in towards the neck, so if you pull them right out in the opposite direction that creates tension in the straps. I've always been meaning to experiment with this pattern and I never think of it when I'm making mockups... Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 16:25:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13004 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:25:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MLP1tv017262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MLP0Dk007357; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MLOMDk006938 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:24:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.20 201-253-122-126-120-20021101) with ESMTP id <20030122212417.CWUJ1817.out006.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:24:17 -0600 From: To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Mens Trousers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [127.0.0.1] at Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:24:17 -0600 Message-Id: <20030122212417.CWUJ1817.out006.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:24:17 -0500 Status: RO > > From: "Five Rivers" > Date: 2003/01/22 Wed AM 10:22:47 EST > To: > Subject: [h-cost] Re: Mens Trousers > > There is a terrific pattern available on our website by Laughing Moon, > called California Pants. Now, don't be put off by the name, as these > trousers are in fact historically accurate for mid to late Victorian, high > waisted, with a huge sizing range and fitting options for portly men and for > ladies as well. > > There's also the Classic Cut Trousers by Past Patterns, which we also > carry. It comes in two sizing arrays and is suitable for mid to late > Victorian. > > Regards > Lorina In nineteenth century America, California was often a provider of fine quality materials. Cowboys used a number of items of which some of the best (or fanciest were referred to as "Californian". High on this list were Trousers (see above) and spurs. I suspect that the designer of this pattern knows this, and that this pattern was geared towards the cowboy shooting crowd (I am a member). I can document examples at home if anyone is really interested. A notable exception to this is california holsters. This is not a determination of quality, but of any early style appearing first in the gold fields, now usually called a slim jim. Cheers, R.Carnegie@verizon.net "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours." R. Bach _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 17:36:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13637 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:36:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MMZdtv024101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:35:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MMZZDk018330; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MMYUDk017676 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:34:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0MMYOb22576 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:34:24 +1100 Message-ID: <009001c2c266$954f7360$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <002e01c2c230$13e21e80$df12e10c@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:35:36 +1100 Status: RO > Only it you could get easy access to it, because to have to program a bolus > dose of insulin just before you eat a meal or smack{within 5 mins.} Debbie Surely she shouldn't be doing Smack if she's diabetic.. :-) Sorry couldn't resist pointing out the Freudian typo. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 17:46:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13683 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:46:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MMk5tv025087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MMk1Dk024478; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f111.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MMjVDk024111 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:45:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:45:26 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:45:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2003 22:45:26.0094 (UTC) FILETIME=[F499DEE0:01C2C267] Subject: [h-cost] Re:] corset/costume funny Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:45:25 -0800 Status: RO Thank you so much!!! I'm burrowing my way through all the info that arrived with it this afternoon and that was just the bit of levity I needed. :) Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! just before you eat a meal or smack{within 5 mins.} >Debbie > >Surely she shouldn't be doing Smack if she's diabetic.. :-) > >Sorry couldn't resist pointing out the Freudian typo. > >Karen >----- _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 17:57:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13777 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:57:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MMv2tv026064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MMv1Dk001398; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MMu1Dk000818 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip168.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.168]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0MMtwMw008148 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:55:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030121195927.01face80@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches In-Reply-To: <008401c2c0d8$ff3aaea0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:02:09 -0500 Status: RO Well, as a temporary solution until you find a good ergonomic position for your sewing machine -- when I sew, I have been known to put my Laughing Moon corset on over my usual t-shirt and jeans, which looks weird but works. The metal busk in front keeps me from slouching forward too much. I don't know if you can take any sort of pressure on your back due to the disk problems, though... Clotilde sells back braces for sewers, too, so same idea, different execution. -- Mara At 06:09 PM 1/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I am looking for suggestions... a friend and I have both had surgeries on >disks in our backs. When we sit behind the sewing machines... in 15-30 min. >our back is hurting. (snip) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 18:11:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13890 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:11:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MNB2tv027474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MNB0Dk009627; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0MNA4Dk009042 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-35-22-57.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.22.57] helo=dan) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18bU0N-00050u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:09:59 +0000 Message-ID: <008101c2c26c$a9c1c4a0$391623d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:] corset/costume funny MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:19:07 -0000 Status: RO I'm not sure I can manage levity, but I wish you every luck with the gadget, as well as the instructions:-) If it's the size of the one I sometimes use for asthma medication, then it is a little bigger than a mic pack, which tends to mess up the small of the back location. But I've made a variety of hiding places for syringe drivers for friends, including actors, and you should be able to adapt costumes for most periods without too much difficulty. You will need some rigidity in the container, since squashing the gadget and its attachments is not a good idea. Give me a shout if you hit a particular problem since I may have come across it before... best wishes Stevie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Sena" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re:] corset/costume funny > Thank you so much!!! I'm burrowing my way through all the info that arrived > with it this afternoon and that was just the bit of levity I needed. :) > > > > Jennifer Sena > Distant Designs > http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > > I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > just before you eat a meal or smack{within 5 mins.} > >Debbie > > > >Surely she shouldn't be doing Smack if she's diabetic.. :-) > > > >Sorry couldn't resist pointing out the Freudian typo. > > > >Karen > >----- > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 19:39:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14502 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:39:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N0d2tv005174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N0d0Dk024988; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N0cJDk024715 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:38:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-250-142.s396.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.250.142] helo=rcn.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18bVNq-0001QB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:38:18 -0500 Message-ID: <3E2F397A.601094DD@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20030118190007.13204.16331.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:38:18 -0500 Status: RO Hi, all, I'm planning to be at the convention & will put the 'h' on & all. My experience at these conventions is that it is frequently easiest to meet for breakfast. There is always so much going on later in the day, from lectures, hands-on classes, rehearsals, to the shows. Also, try try try to get your costumes done ahead of time. I have sewn an outfit during the weekend of a CC, & it was exceptionally tough. I didn't have time to breathe, or to dance, sniff. I was doing other things besides the sewing, too. On the other hand, my little group got "Best Bathing Suit" in the bathing suit contest (a one-time contest) at CC18. (showing that my priorities skew with the best of them.) : ) Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 19:40:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14516 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:40:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N0f2tv005323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N0f2Dk025773; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N0euDk025734 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:40:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.125.194]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H95009025V3NP@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:40:47 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Insulin pump In-reply-to: <3E2EC483.5070705@comcast.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030122160723.052504f0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:14:20 -0800 Status: RO >I have created several costumes for people that wore the pump at our local >fair. We created a spandex pocket that velcro'ed shut, and using the >really wide velcro, we covered the back of the pocket with the sticky >velcro, and then in several places on the underside of the article we >sewed in the soft velcro so it could be moved as needed. We also included >velcro loops where you could gather up the extra tubing and have that >attached as well so there was less chance of it coming loose. You can be >pretty creative where you hide it. For Elizabethan we put the pump in the >back attached to the lower edge of her corset. It rode right under all >her cartridge pleats and did just fine. > >Just make sure that you use the large velcro. My quadriplegic housemate still does Ren. Faire, and had to leave a seam open, in his Ren. pants, for a catheter tube. It took us a while to figure out the location, since, of course, he doesn't wear a skirt. But at least he sits all day, so we had the totally un-period motorized chair to hide the rest of that system it in. He's still part of the management of the Ren. Faire unit he has always been in, so he always goes to Faire. His non-Faire helper-people had to adjust to this ;) They have been known to switch days around among themselves, to go or avoid going, as is their preference. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 19:55:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14574 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:55:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N0u2tv006502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N0u0Dk002231; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N0thDk002131 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:55:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0N0n8V8032200 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:49:09 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Inventories of Henry VIII (WAS: Pinned on stomachers). Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3E2E3558.144E522@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:00:54 -0800 Status: RO Inter Library Loan is Your Friend! :-) I had to have this book, but the $250 that I could find it for was even over my head ($125 for a 13th Century Mongolian Cookbook - when I don't cook that much? Sure! Bring it on!). I put out a want with Multnomah County Library and had a copy within about a week. Then it was Kinko's and I. Cost me $50 because I did it single side only (I've never had good luck with double sided and didn't want to take the chance) and had it comb bound with heavy covers in two volumes. If they ever get serious about putting it out in paperback (say Boydell and Brewer) I will happily buy it. In the meantime, I'm not letting anyone else copy mine so I believe it's "fair use" still. Regina Romsey -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:08 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventories of Henry VIII (WAS: Pinned on stomachers). *koff, koff* *sputter* I think I'll be saving my money a while for _that_ one! Thanks for the info! --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 20:07:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14640 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:07:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N172tv007347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N171Dk006522; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0N16lDk006433 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4654 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2003 01:06:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bookbusiness) (208.166.66.239) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2003 01:06:46 -0000 Message-ID: <001a01c2c27b$b64200a0$ef42a6d0@bookbusiness> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: <001b01c2c1d6$75255c20$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:06:50 -0500 Status: RO Jo-Mar Fabrics....It's in a bad neighborhood (although right by the expressway) and doesn't look like anything but they are legendary for the great fabric bargains you may come across. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 20:29:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14703 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:29:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N1U1tv008771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N1U1Dk014725; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N1TtDk014682 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17326 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:42:07 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 In-Reply-To: <3E2F397A.601094DD@rcn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:42:07 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Catelli wrote: > Also, try try try to get your costumes done ahead of time. It hit me about a week ago that I'm going to a CostumeCon and don't have a thing to wear, because I rarely make costumes for myself anymore. (Does that keep me from buying fabric? Nooooo....) When I speak at SCA events, I usually go in modern business attire, except when I'm wearing a demonstration piece. But at CostumeCon, that doesn't feel right, at least not for the events that are billed as specifically costumed, like the Friday social. So my costume-related priority list right now runs something like this: do research for the lecture I'm updating; photograph new slides for that lecture; make at least two costumes to clothe myself for the con. One will be sorta medieval, and the other in a more modern period I've never done, but was within the guidelines for the Friday social. It is a very weird feeling to be making a costume to wear for fun rather than for research/demonstration purposes. Now I'm cruising eBay and thrift stores looking for vintage patterns and the right accessories. It would be very tempting to spend much too much money just on the add-ons that would complete the look, but I keep reminding myself I will wear it a whopping three hours of my life. Oh, but the right wig, and shoes, and purse would be *just* the right touches. And they're all out there. But I could drop $200 I don't have on the whole thing if I let myself get carried away. (And yes, I know that many CostumeCon regulars spend ten times that, and years of work, on a single costume, but remember, this isn't my usual milieu.) Part of the weirdness is that I've never worked in a period in which the *real* stuff is available for sale! Yes, I could draft the pattern myself with no trouble, but if I can use the real thing, that adds (for me) a satisfying level of authenticity. Not that anyone will know. :-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 20:30:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14712 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:30:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N1S3tv008613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N1S1Dk013995; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40906.mail.yahoo.com (web40906.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0N1RYDk013833 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:27:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030123012729.1252.qmail@web40906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.21.244] by web40906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:27:29 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030123010701.6520.57558.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Philadelphia things to see? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:27:29 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Janet wrote: Jo-Mar Fabrics....It's in a bad neighborhood (although right by the expressway) and doesn't look like anything but they are legendary for the great fabric bargains you may come across. Oh, duh! I forgot about the actual textile SHOPPING to be had.. Yes, JoMar is a wonder. If you can get to the mothership of the various outlets at I and Venango Streets (that's the letter "I") in the Kensington section of Philadelphia (just off of the Allegheny exit on I-95), you won't regret it.. The entire second floor of this giant warehouse is crammed with an amazing selection of just about every kind of fabric. It's a bit lacking in good period silks, but then... so's almost every fabric store on the planet, unfortunately. Their wool selection is TO-DIE-FOR, and the prices are right. If they're having a sale, the prices can range between $3-$6 a yard... regular price is usually in the $6-12 range. Also, easier to access from downtown, is Fabric Row, which is a 3-4 block stretch on 4th Street starting around Bainbridge St. and going down to about Carpenter St. Lots and lots of fabric shops. If I think of more, I'll post it later... -Tasha __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 21:02:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14802 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:02:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N235tv010449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N230Dk026432; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail4.kc.rr.com (fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N22pDk026372 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:02:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com ([65.30.107.115]) by mail4.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:57:48 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030122200602.009f6e30@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: sherylnd/pop-server.kc.rr.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC21 In-Reply-To: <03e901c2c1b1$c839d280$8aac3841@hppav> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:06:17 -0600 Status: RO Sounds good to me! I'm in. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 07:01 PM 1/21/03 -0600, you wrote: >Would anyone going to CC21 in April be interested in getting together, >either at one of the panels or maybe lunch one day? Also, what about >putting a large H on the name badges to identify one another?? > >Genie > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 21:51:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14975 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:51:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N2q3tv013479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N2q1Dk013539; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0N2pJDk013280 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:51:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 10702 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2003 03:38:34 -0000 Received: from 66-44-104-53.s561.apx2.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.104.53) by shada.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2003 03:38:34 -0000 Message-ID: <3E2F59B0.7000306@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see? References: <001b01c2c1d6$75255c20$befc8218@hopperflop2> <001a01c2c27b$b64200a0$ef42a6d0@bookbusiness> In-Reply-To: <001a01c2c27b$b64200a0$ef42a6d0@bookbusiness> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:55:44 -0500 Status: RO Janet Davis wrote: > Jo-Mar Fabrics....It's in a bad neighborhood (although right by the > expressway) and doesn't look like anything but they are legendary for the > great fabric bargains you may come across. And they are, until Jan 31, having their 50% off sale. Consider - their high end wool crepes list for $12yd off sale. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 22:20:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15096 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:20:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N3L2tv015014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N3L1Dk023497; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0N3KRDk023320 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:20:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17551 invoked by uid 1005); 23 Jan 2003 03:19:58 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 1.078568 secs); 23 Jan 2003 03:19:57 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 1.078568 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2003 03:19:55 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see In-Reply-To: <3E2F59B0.7000306@oldwaylane.net> Message-ID: <20030122221915.B69728-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:20:02 -0500 (EST) Status: RO WHEEEEEEEEE! I am SO there. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I love you. Drea On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Judy Mitchell wrote: > Janet Davis wrote: > > Jo-Mar Fabrics....It's in a bad neighborhood (although right by the > > expressway) and doesn't look like anything but they are legendary for the > > great fabric bargains you may come across. > > And they are, until Jan 31, having their 50% off sale. > Consider - their high end wool crepes list for $12yd off sale. > > -Judy Mitchell > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 23:24:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15390 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:24:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N4ODtv018575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:24:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N4O6Dk016414; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N4NhDk016227 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:23:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <200301230423360010078ijce>; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:23:36 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c2c297$321ce580$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <20030122221915.B69728-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:23:34 -0800 Status: RO Woo! Me too! Drea, get your hands off my fabric! :) - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see > WHEEEEEEEEE! > > I am SO there. > > Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I love you. > > Drea > > On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Judy Mitchell wrote: > > > Janet Davis wrote: > > > Jo-Mar Fabrics....It's in a bad neighborhood (although right by the > > > expressway) and doesn't look like anything but they are legendary for the > > > great fabric bargains you may come across. > > > > And they are, until Jan 31, having their 50% off sale. > > Consider - their high end wool crepes list for $12yd off sale. > > > > -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 23:28:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15409 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:28:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N4T1tv018842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N4T0Dk018122; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N4SVDk017981 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:28:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0N4SIvB077637 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:28:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301230428.h0N4SIvB077637@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Kendra Van Cleave" at Jan 22, 2003 08:23:34 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:28:18 -0800 (PST) Status: RO DON'T FORGET to take swatches of fabrics/outfits you might want to match! :) > > Woo! Me too! Drea, get your hands off my fabric! :) > > - Kendra > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drea Leed" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:20 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see > > > > WHEEEEEEEEE! > > > > I am SO there. > > > > Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I love you. > > > > Drea > > > > On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Judy Mitchell wrote: > > > > > Janet Davis wrote: > > > > Jo-Mar Fabrics....It's in a bad neighborhood (although right by the > > > > expressway) and doesn't look like anything but they are legendary for > the > > > > great fabric bargains you may come across. > > > > > > And they are, until Jan 31, having their 50% off sale. > > > Consider - their high end wool crepes list for $12yd off sale. > > > > > > -Judy Mitchell > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 22 23:34:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15451 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:34:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N4Z2tv019178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N4Z1Dk020058; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N4Y7Dk019750 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:34:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwebc16 ([204.127.135.42]) by mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with SMTP id <20030123043402.PSRF2583.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:34:02 +0000 Received: from [67.9.28.218] by mtiwebc16; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:34:02 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 25 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 Message-Id: <20030123043402.PSRF2583.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:34:02 +0000 Status: RO And remember this mantra as you (inevitably) find yourself starting to slouch... " I am the Sewing Princess of Bavaria!"" and adjust your self to sitting up as straight as the Mythical "Princess" would. I always found a little silliness helped me to remember to sit up straight better! Crissy > Are you all suggesting one of those ergonomics chairs? I haven't thought > about a slanting table before. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners > (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 04:05:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03585 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:05:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N969tv029876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N96152006305; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N95u52006267 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:05:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (12-225-18-223.client.attbi.com[12.225.18.223]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <200301230905510030005u8ge>; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:05:51 +0000 Message-ID: <016501c2c2be$0cfd5920$df12e10c@attbi.com> From: "dshoover" To: References: <002e01c2c230$13e21e80$df12e10c@attbi.com> <009001c2c266$954f7360$18a231d2@valadan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 01:01:43 -0800 Status: RO Sorry, diabetic should eat six times a day, so we call the smaller meals at 10am-2pm-8pm snacks. They are really not as they are part of the prescribed diet. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Root" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question > > Only it you could get easy access to it, because to have to program a > bolus > > dose of insulin just before you eat a meal or smack{within 5 mins.} > Debbie > > Surely she shouldn't be doing Smack if she's diabetic.. :-) > > Sorry couldn't resist pointing out the Freudian typo. > > Karen > ----- > www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 04:25:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25482 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:25:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N9P1tv000830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N9P052010959; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f38.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N9Or52010918 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:24:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 01:24:48 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:24:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2003 09:24:48.0451 (UTC) FILETIME=[46590130:01C2C2C1] Subject: [h-cost] Thanks so much Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 01:24:48 -0800 Status: RO I really appreciate the input. Now that I've gotten a good look at the parts I think there will be much less of an issue than I had thought. I can even get a thigh belt holder thingy and just make hidden slits in my skirts so when I sit down to eat I can just slip it out of my lap and then back. The insertion sight is much flatter than I expected so I think I'll be all right since I don't do tight lacing. It's hard to portray young and nubile when you're old and bovine. ;} Anyway, I don't think it will interfere with my 1850-65 ball gown plans after all. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 04:27:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26976 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:27:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N9R1tv000908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N9R152011466; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0N9Qp52011429 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:26:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0N9Qop15423.; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:26:50 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:26:15 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0N9Qp52011429 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:06:23 +0000 Status: RO Kendra wrote: >Goldie Hawn >(http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=136&a=0) and Lara Flynn Boyle >(http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=217&a=0) get my vote for worst dressed. Seeing that Goldie Hawn is older than I am, she looks decidedly mutton-dressed-as-lamb (a look I try hard to avoid, as a middle-aged woman stuck with a pre-adolescent figure!) - and Lara looks like an extra from "Billy Elliott" Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 06:01:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28528 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 06:01:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NB12tv004122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NB1152000417; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NB0f52000340 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:00:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.116.237.43]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9500DZXYJ5A7@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:59:30 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030123025203.00d72320@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3E2F397A.601094DD@rcn.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:58:24 -0800 Status: RO I have did an entire CostumeCon on nothing but the sarees I could stuff into a carry-on piece of luggage. I changed sarees about three times a day, starting Friday night, using a different set of underskirt-plus-choli each day, total of four sets. But then, I already own glitz sarees and ethnic-look sarees and day-to-day sarees, to which I added one science fiction saree. My two masquerade costumes and my future fashion show costume took up all the rest of my luggage allotment. > > Also, try try try to get your costumes done ahead of time. > >It hit me about a week ago that I'm going to a CostumeCon and don't have a >thing to wear, because I rarely make costumes for myself anymore. (Does >that keep me from buying fabric? Nooooo....) When I speak at SCA events, I >usually go in modern business attire, except when I'm wearing a >demonstration piece. But at CostumeCon, that doesn't feel right, at least >not for the events that are billed as specifically costumed, like the >Friday social. > >So my costume-related priority list right now runs something like this: do >research for the lecture I'm updating; photograph new slides for that >lecture; make at least two costumes to clothe myself for the con. One will >be sorta medieval, and the other in a more modern period I've never done, >but was within the guidelines for the Friday social. > >It is a very weird feeling to be making a costume to wear for fun rather >than for research/demonstration purposes. Now I'm cruising eBay and thrift >stores looking for vintage patterns and the right accessories. It would be >very tempting to spend much too much money just on the add-ons that would >complete the look, but I keep reminding myself I will wear it a whopping >three hours of my life. Oh, but the right wig, and shoes, and purse would >be *just* the right touches. And they're all out there. But I could drop >$200 I don't have on the whole thing if I let myself get carried away. >(And yes, I know that many CostumeCon regulars spend ten times that, and >years of work, on a single costume, but remember, this isn't my usual >milieu.) > >Part of the weirdness is that I've never worked in a period in which the >*real* stuff is available for sale! Yes, I could draft the pattern myself >with no trouble, but if I can use the real thing, that adds (for me) a >satisfying level of authenticity. Not that anyone will know. :-) > >--Robin > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 06:06:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28558 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 06:06:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NB72tv004259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NB7152001906; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail009.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail009.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NB6452001669 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 04:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail009.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0NB5wF10040 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:05:58 +1100 Message-ID: <001701c2c2cf$93f91a70$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <002e01c2c230$13e21e80$df12e10c@attbi.com> <009001c2c266$954f7360$18a231d2@valadan> <016501c2c2be$0cfd5920$df12e10c@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:07:11 +1100 Status: RO > Sorry, diabetic should eat six times a day, so we call the smaller meals > at 10am-2pm-8pm snacks. They are really not as they are part of the > prescribed diet. Debbie Nah, was pointing out the fact that the reply said "Smack" instead of "Snack" K ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 07:14:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28948 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:14:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NCE9tv006522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:14:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NCE052017180; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (IDENT:zzwJI9FUCD9uh5r/lxR86UcSP1g9XuAz@decna.com [195.70.174.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NCD252016849 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0NCX9F20748 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:33:09 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: H-Costume List Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... In-Reply-To: <3E2CBC2C.4FC30D8A@ttlc.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:33:08 +0100 (CET) Status: RO While we're on the topic (I'm catching up, so please bear with me :) ) - a while back Robin posted an excellent description of how to perform a bleach test to distinguish cellulose/protein blends from all protein or all cellulose fabrics. I think I'm having a language thing here, because I'm not entirely certain what exactly is meant when on ways only "bleach" (the Norwegian equivalent can be used to describe a number of different chemicals, and I expect the chemical will make a difference). Is it chlorine bleach that should be used, or something else? :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 07:46:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29130 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:46:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NCl3tv007909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NCl152027947; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NCkl52027777 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.104.2571f67a (4568) for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:46:36 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <104.2571f67a.2b613e2b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_104.2571f67a.2b613e2b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:46:35 EST Status: RO --part1_104.2571f67a.2b613e2b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/2003 7:15:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, ingridgs@techarea.net writes: > Is it chlorine bleach that should be used, or something else? :) > > Yes, it is chlorine bleach. Ann Wass --part1_104.2571f67a.2b613e2b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/2003 7:15:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, ingridgs@techarea.net writes:


Is it chlorine bleach that should be used, or something else? :)



Yes, it is chlorine bleach.
Ann Wass --part1_104.2571f67a.2b613e2b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 07:51:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29162 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:51:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NCq1tv008122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NCq152029251; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from decna.com (IDENT:849yh1ttUQMWafGrD584KRMIWqCEAGj5@decna.com [195.70.174.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NCpA52029042 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:51:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by decna.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0NDBI823062 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:11:18 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@decna.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... In-Reply-To: <104.2571f67a.2b613e2b@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:11:18 +0100 (CET) Status: RO On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/23/2003 7:15:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, > ingridgs@techarea.net writes: > > Is it chlorine bleach that should be used, or something else? :) > > Yes, it is chlorine bleach. Great, that I can do. Thanks! :) Ingrid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 09:14:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29562 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:14:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NEF5tv011604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NEF152023213; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NEEY52023086 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:14:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19465 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:26:48 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: H-Costume List Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0NEEY52023086 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:26:48 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, [iso-8859-1] Ingrid G. Storrø wrote: > While we're on the topic (I'm catching up, so please bear with me :) ) > - a while back Robin posted an excellent description of how to perform > a bleach test to distinguish cellulose/protein blends from all protein > or all cellulose fabrics. I think I'm having a language thing here, > because I'm not entirely certain what exactly is meant when on ways > only "bleach" (the Norwegian equivalent can be used to describe a > number of different chemicals, and I expect the chemical will make a > difference). Is it chlorine bleach that should be used, or something > else? :) I think chlorine bleach would be the right thing. We use it to whiten fabrics as a laundry aid (but it will take out dye from many fabrics) and also as a sanitizer, in solution, for kitchen counters, diaper pails, etc. It's cheap, and sold in gallon jugs. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 09:48:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29649 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:48:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NEn3tv013685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NEn152004550; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NEme52004416 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.99.135.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.99.135] helo=earthlink.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18biek-0000f0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 06:48:39 -0800 Message-ID: <3E3000D5.1060001@earthlink.net> From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 References: <3E2F397A.601094DD@rcn.com> <4.3.1.2.20030123025203.00d72320@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:48:53 -0500 Status: RO I remember my mother telling me years ago about an interview she saw with an Indian author (Sorry, I'm blanking on who, right now) who discussed the great advantages of the sari when on a book promotion tour... it folds flat, it's light weight, hardly takes up any room, you don't have to worry about wrinkles, have a whole wardrobe in a carry on. She mostly carried silk, because she was interviewing and doing book signings... "No, Western dress would really not be more convenient!" Anne Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I have did an entire CostumeCon on nothing but the sarees I could stuff > into a carry-on piece of luggage. I changed sarees about three times a > day, starting Friday night, using a different set of > underskirt-plus-choli each day, total of four sets. But then, I already > own glitz sarees and ethnic-look sarees and day-to-day sarees, to which > I added one science fiction saree. My two masquerade costumes and my > future fashion show costume took up all the rest of my luggage allotment. > >> > > > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 09:55:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29696 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:55:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NEt6tv013999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:55:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NEt352006562; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f223.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.223]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NEs852006246 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:54:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 06:54:03 -0800 Received: from 151.199.135.31 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:54:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.135.31] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2003 14:54:03.0484 (UTC) FILETIME=[4543D1C0:01C2C2EF] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:54:03 -0500 Status: RO You could always do what we used to do with anachronisms at the Ren Faire---cover it with burlap! *S* Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson >From: "Jennifer Sena" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >CC: 19cWoman@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:25:37 -0800 > >I know this isn't "historically oriented" in toto, but my insulin pump >arrives tomorrow and I'm getting a new lease on life. I need to know how >the device may impact my ability to wear certain eras, or if anyone else >has one and tips on how to deal with it. Modern clothing is no problem >because there are so many styles to choose from, but I will have a pager >sized device attached to my midsection from now on and I may have to >rethink my fashions. I know I'm not the only diabetic costumer around. >Any advice? > > > >Jennifer Sena >Distant Designs >http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > >I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 10:00:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29737 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:00:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NF12tv014412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NF10Dp008640; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NF0e52008504 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:00:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.246.99.135.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([209.246.99.135] helo=earthlink.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18biqL-0000Vi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:00:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3E3003A4.9070003@earthlink.net> From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks so much References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:00:52 -0500 Status: RO Very good! Dressed up and pretty and healthy all together... all good things. Good luck with it, hope it is very easy to integrate into your life. Anne Jennifer Sena wrote: > I really appreciate the input. Now that I've gotten a good look at the > parts I think there will be much less of an issue than I had thought. I > can even get a thigh belt holder thingy and just make hidden slits in my > skirts so when I sit down to eat I can just slip it out of my lap and > then back. > > The insertion sight is much flatter than I expected so I think I'll be > all right since I don't do tight lacing. It's hard to portray young and > nubile when you're old and bovine. ;} > > Anyway, I don't think it will interfere with my 1850-65 ball gown plans > after all. > > > > Jennifer Sena > Distant Designs > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 10:08:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29777 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:08:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NF92tv015072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NF91Dp011691; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f23.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.23]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NF89Dp011371 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 07:08:04 -0800 Received: from 151.199.135.31 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:08:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.135.31] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2003 15:08:04.0405 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A7E2E50:01C2C2F1] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:08:04 -0500 Status: RO And maybe the portraits aren't always accurate. Looking through 20,000 years, there's a portrait of Marguerite Wasa from 1528 that shows a slope of about 45 degrees from the base of her neck to the point of her shoulder---are humans made that way? Or maybe they just kept their dresses on the way I'm often tempted to do-----a staplegun! *S* Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson >From: Bella _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 10:26:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29897 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:26:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NFQ8tv016567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:26:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NFQ2Dp019068; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NFPGDp018702 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h0NFP2o10997 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:25:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E300951.6424070D@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see? References: <001b01c2c1d6$75255c20$befc8218@hopperflop2> <001a01c2c27b$b64200a0$ef42a6d0@bookbusiness> <3E2F59B0.7000306@oldwaylane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:25:06 -0500 Status: RO You say right by the expressway--which one? I don't know Philly that well and only know how to get there by Roosevelt to Whitaker to Erie to I Street. Would love to know a better way. Kate Judy Mitchell wrote: > Janet Davis wrote: > > Jo-Mar Fabrics....It's in a bad neighborhood (although right by the > > expressway) and doesn't look like anything but they are legendary for the > > great fabric bargains you may come across. > > And they are, until Jan 31, having their 50% off sale. > Consider - their high end wool crepes list for $12yd off sale. > > -Judy Mitchell > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 11:15:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30288 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:15:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGF4tv021089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGF2Dp014057; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40806.mail.yahoo.com (web40806.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0NGEPDp013690 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:14:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030123161419.36854.qmail@web40806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.126.155.0] by web40806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:14:19 PST From: Cynthia Corley To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] insulin pump and mic packs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:14:19 -0800 (PST) Status: RO If the insulin pump is indeed about the size of a pager, it does sound like the sort of problem we have with body mics onstage. I've had good success using thigh pouches for some actresses who couldn't hide a thing due to tight corsets. If the skirt or trousers are very snug we've even put them up high on the inside of the thigh, which leads to some hilarity in the dressing rooms... Good luck! ===== An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Gandhi __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 11:44:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30419 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:44:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGi9tv025017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGi5Dp001103; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe72.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGhbDp000664 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:43:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:43:31 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2003 16:43:31.0897 (UTC) FILETIME=[90581A90:01C2C2FE] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:43:31 -0500 Status: RO Humans are not made that way, but some people have really sloping shoulders (I'm NOT one of them, but my bf is, his shirts always tend to wrinkle around the neckline because his shoulders drop so much) I guess it was just a look considered attractive for the period, and the cut of the dresses emphasized that shape. The artist might have taken liberties somewhat to make her look more attractive in the portrait... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Kiel" To: Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress > And maybe the portraits aren't always accurate. Looking through 20,000 > years, there's a portrait of Marguerite Wasa from 1528 that shows a slope of > about 45 degrees from the base of her neck to the point of her > shoulder---are humans made that way? Or maybe they just kept their dresses > on the way I'm often tempted to do-----a staplegun! *S* > > > > Nancy Kiel > nancy_kiel@hotmail.com > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson > > > > > > >From: Bella > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 12:00:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30494 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:00:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGx2tv026549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:59:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGx1Dp010427; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGwsDp010340 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:58:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0NGwsN27354 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:58:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030123083156.00b321d8@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 In-Reply-To: References: <3E2F397A.601094DD@rcn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3221281==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:59:10 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_3221281==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:42 PM 1/22/2003 -0600, you wrote: >On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Catelli wrote: > > > Also, try try try to get your costumes done ahead of time. > >It hit me about a week ago that I'm going to a CostumeCon and don't have a >thing to wear, because I rarely make costumes for myself anymore. (Does >that keep me from buying fabric? Nooooo....) I've been toying with the thought of attending this event. It would give me a chance to catch up with Drea and I'm really interested in the Iron Costumer competition! It sounds like a hoot. If I can get the time, maybe I'll enter the historical competition as a novice >; ) Off to check flight info..... Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_3221281==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:42 PM 1/22/2003 -0600, you wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Catelli wrote:

> Also, try try try to get your costumes done ahead of time.

It hit me about a week ago that I'm going to a CostumeCon and don't have a
thing to wear, because I rarely make costumes for myself anymore. (Does
that keep me from buying fabric? Nooooo....)

I've been toying with the thought of attending this event. It would give me a chance to catch up with Drea and I'm really interested in the Iron Costumer competition! It sounds like a hoot.
If I can get the time, maybe I'll enter the historical competition as a novice >; )


Off to check flight info.....

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_3221281==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 12:02:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30518 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:02:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NH12tv026754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NH10Dp011748; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NH0EDp011230 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0NH0Dp13877.; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:00:13 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:00:12 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0NH0EDp011230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:59:56 +0000 Status: RO Queen Victoria is portrayed with very sloping shoulders too. Mine are so square, I look as though I'm wearing shoulder pads when I'm not! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> audreybmorin2@hotmail.com 01/23/03 04:43pm >>> Humans are not made that way, but some people have really sloping shoulders (I'm NOT one of them, but my bf is, his shirts always tend to wrinkle around the neckline because his shoulders drop so much) I guess it was just a look considered attractive for the period, and the cut of the dresses emphasized that shape. The artist might have taken liberties somewhat to make her look more attractive in the portrait... -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 12:31:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30922 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:31:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGw2tv026402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGw0Dp009805; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NGvmDp009676 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:57:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f53.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.83]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id EE5D947FF91 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:57:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <010101c2c300$c0557ec0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:59:10 +0100 Status: RO Hi Oh yes, this is frequently used by artist. Some times the models looks absolutely funny and most surrealistic. Tonight i am going to open my first packages of paperclay and have fun!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress > Humans are not made that way, but some people have really sloping shoulders > (I'm NOT one of them, but my bf is, his shirts always tend to wrinkle around > the neckline because his shoulders drop so much) > > I guess it was just a look considered attractive for the period, and the cut > of the dresses emphasized that shape. The artist might have taken liberties > somewhat to make her look more attractive in the portrait... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nancy Kiel" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's > Italian Dress > > > > And maybe the portraits aren't always accurate. Looking through 20,000 > > years, there's a portrait of Marguerite Wasa from 1528 that shows a slope > of > > about 45 degrees from the base of her neck to the point of her > > shoulder---are humans made that way? Or maybe they just kept their > dresses > > on the way I'm often tempted to do-----a staplegun! *S* > > > > > > > > Nancy Kiel > > nancy_kiel@hotmail.com > > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Bella > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 12:44:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30986 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:44:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NHi7tv001518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NHi1Dp009261; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NHhXDp008777 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:43:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from comcast.net (pcp670884pcs.indpnd01.mo.comcast.net [68.34.234.170]) by mtaout04.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.09 (built Jan 7 2003)) with ESMTP id <0H9600A2ZH6OVE@mtaout04.icomcast.net> for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:42:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Linda J. Thompson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-id: <3E3029A8.6000208@comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 Subject: [h-cost] Good Sew News article Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: LindaJThompson@comcast.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:43:04 -0600 Status: RO Hi, I grabbed the February 2003 issue of "Sew News" magazine while standing in line, and there is a terrific little article in there written by Barbara Weiland about the amount of ease that pattern makers put into their patterns and a general rule of thumb to use when designing your own items. Thought it might be of use to determine what you need to add or take out when using a modern pattern as a basis for a historic item. Linda Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 12:57:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31044 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:57:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NHv7tv002880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:57:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NHv1Dp016815; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NHuLDp016358 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:56:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20275 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:08:37 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030123083156.00b321d8@blue.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:08:37 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > I've been toying with the thought of attending this event. It would > give me a chance to catch up with Drea ... My dear, none of us will *ever* catch up with Drea. I am convinced she is identical triplets. Either that or she never sleeps, ever. --Robin (yes, I knew what you meant ;-) ) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 13:09:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31118 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:09:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NI95tv004341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NI91Dp024155; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0NI8iDp023967 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19960 invoked by uid 1005); 23 Jan 2003 18:08:33 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.296565 secs); 23 Jan 2003 18:08:32 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.296565 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2003 18:08:32 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030123130809.F79081-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:08:36 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Gwyn, It would be great to meet you in person, too! Drea (who does sleep, but desparately wishes she could make do with less of it. ;) On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > > I've been toying with the thought of attending this event. It would > > give me a chance to catch up with Drea ... > > My dear, none of us will *ever* catch up with Drea. I am convinced she is > identical triplets. Either that or she never sleeps, ever. > > --Robin > (yes, I knew what you meant ;-) ) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 13:46:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31238 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:46:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NIj9tv007624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:45:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NIj1gq016324; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NIiSgq015983 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:44:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0NIiRN21142 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:44:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030123102141.00bcf5b8@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie In-Reply-To: <000a01c2bcff$46e9b940$873b6818@blazenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_9555000==.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] re:looking for stuff and syphilis glasses Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:44:44 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_9555000==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Catching up on email.... At 08:33 PM 1/15/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Gwyn, > You asked about gchristen/Parasols.html....She is a wonderful person!!! > Linda Sterner Granted; how about the parasols? I was particularly interested in the quality of the frames. I hate using my originals and so I'd like to purchase some reasonable replicas. Someone asked what syphilis glasses were earlier. We had a network outage and so I don't know if anyone answered while I was incommunicado. Here is a site that specializes in the real thing http://www.eyeglasseswarehouse.com/19th-century-spectacles.html. They were a variant of the standard medical sunglasses with much darker lens, often a deep cobalt blue. The name syphilis glasses comes from the fact that the later stages of the disease renders the patient very, very, light sensitive. They are now really popular with the Goth crowd. And since were discussing replicas, Peterman's has a turn of the century waist called the Gibson Girl blouse. It was on sale last I checked. I picked one up and am really happy with it. It does run small and is appropriately short waisted. It closes along the back of the neck to the shoulder and them down the front crease using press studs. For $54, I found the work really reasonable. Maybe someone here is looking for an item such as this. Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis (who will hopefully be able to upload her dyes article to it's new home tonight) --=====================_9555000==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Catching up on email....

At 08:33 PM 1/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:

Gwyn,
 You asked about gchristen/Parasols.html....She is a wonderful person!!!
 Linda Sterner

Granted; how about the parasols? I was particularly interested in the quality of the frames. I hate using my originals and so I'd like to purchase some reasonable replicas.

Someone asked what syphilis glasses were earlier. We had a network outage and so I don't know if anyone answered while I was incommunicado. Here is a site that specializes in the real thing http://www.eyeglasseswarehouse.com/19th-century-spectacles.html.  They were a variant of the standard medical sunglasses with much darker lens, often a deep cobalt blue. The name syphilis glasses comes from the fact that the later stages of the disease renders the patient very, very, light sensitive. They are now really popular with the Goth crowd.

And since were discussing replicas, Peterman's has a turn of the century waist called the Gibson Girl blouse. It was on sale last I checked. I picked one up and am really happy with it.  It does run small and is appropriately short waisted. It closes along the back of the neck to the shoulder and them down the front crease using press studs. For $54, I found the work really reasonable. Maybe someone here is looking for an item such as this.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
(who will hopefully be able to upload her dyes article to it's new home tonight)
 --=====================_9555000==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 16:43:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32471 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:43:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NLh3tv028421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NLh019002679; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NLgH19002253 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:42:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (12-225-18-223.client.attbi.com[12.225.18.223]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003012321421100200mlb3re>; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:42:12 +0000 Message-ID: <002901c2c328$45a75ea0$df12e10c@attbi.com> From: "dshoover" To: References: <002e01c2c230$13e21e80$df12e10c@attbi.com> <009001c2c266$954f7360$18a231d2@valadan> <016501c2c2be$0cfd5920$df12e10c@attbi.com> <001701c2c2cf$93f91a70$18a231d2@valadan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:42:04 -0800 Status: RO Ok blame it on the fact it was 3 am. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Root" To: Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:07 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question > > Sorry, diabetic should eat six times a day, so we call the smaller meals > > at 10am-2pm-8pm snacks. They are really not as they are part of the > > prescribed diet. Debbie > > Nah, was pointing out the fact that the reply said "Smack" instead of > "Snack" > > K > ----- > www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 17:08:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32606 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:08:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NM73tv001013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NM7119016379; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f44.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NM6Q19016039 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:06:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:06:21 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:06:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2003 22:06:21.0109 (UTC) FILETIME=[A94B4E50:01C2C32B] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:06:20 -0800 Status: RO and Lara Flynn Boyle > >(http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 >&e=217&a=0) get my vote for worst dressed. > >Seeing that Goldie Hawn is older than I am, she looks decidedly >mutton-dressed-as-lamb - and Lara looks like an extra from "Billy Elliott" I can live with Goldie as she has an eternally youthful spirit, but the ballerina nightmare is just too much. I do however like Beyonce Knowles bodice/skirt set. Is that chenile embroidery or ribbon? It does look like she lost a skirt "lift" in one of the full length pics though. My favorite gown would have to be Rita Wilson's purple floral gown. It was the only tight body dress that had enough depth in itself to not show every single bump lump and panty line. Jennifer _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 17:25:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32702 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:25:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NMP2tv002688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NMP119027399; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NMOI19026787 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:24:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1cc.a5006c (4426) for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:24:07 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <1cc.a5006c.2b61c586@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1cc.a5006c.2b61c586_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:24:06 EST Status: RO --part1_1cc.a5006c.2b61c586_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/03 4:27:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: > Seeing that Goldie Hawn is older than I am, she looks decidedly > mutton-dressed-as-lamb (a look I try hard to avoid, as a middle-aged woman > stuck with a pre-adolescent figure!) - and Lara looks like an extra from > "Billy Elliott" Am I to understand that Lara was wearing a *ballet costume*? Yeesh, someone get Joan Rivers from E! And call the Fashion Police, too! Maybe one of us could offer her a makeover, including full period costuming, makeup, and headgear? She'd look a sight prettier... Christine --part1_1cc.a5006c.2b61c586_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/03 4:27:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes:

Seeing that Goldie Hawn is older than I am, she looks decidedly mutton-dressed-as-lamb (a look I try hard to avoid, as a middle-aged woman stuck with a pre-adolescent figure!) - and Lara looks like an extra from "Billy Elliott"


Am I to understand that Lara was wearing a *ballet costume*?  Yeesh, someone get Joan Rivers from E!  And call the Fashion Police, too!  <g>  Maybe one of us could offer her a makeover, including full period costuming, makeup, and headgear?  She'd look a sight prettier...

Christine --part1_1cc.a5006c.2b61c586_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 17:39:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00324 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:39:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NMd9tv003897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:39:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NMd119005511; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NMcC19005018 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:38:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1e6.1f8215 (4426) for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:38:05 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <1e6.1f8215.2b61c8cd@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] corset/costume wearing question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1e6.1f8215.2b61c8cd_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:38:05 EST Status: RO --part1_1e6.1f8215.2b61c8cd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/03 9:55:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, nancy_kiel@hotmail.com writes: > You could always do what we used to do with anachronisms at the Ren > Faire---cover it with burlap! *S* > > That's a pretty good idea (in reference to a wheelchair), or you could attach fake wooden "wheels" to the wheels of the wheelchair, attach a small bale of hay to the back, and cover any armrests, buttons, etc with plain cotton or linen, and attach a thin panel of wood to reach side. Voila! A horse-and-carriage, where the horse happens to be invisible. Another option would be to cover the whole thing in brown shag-fabric (that furry stuff that looks like Chewbacca), and say that it's a horse or camel. No one will mind that the horse has no head.. Christine --part1_1e6.1f8215.2b61c8cd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/03 9:55:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, nancy_kiel@hotmail.com writes:

You could always do what we used to do with anachronisms at the Ren
Faire---cover it with burlap! *S*



That's a pretty good idea (in reference to a wheelchair), or you could attach fake wooden "wheels" to the wheels of the wheelchair, attach a small bale of hay to the back, and cover any armrests, buttons, etc with plain cotton or linen, and attach a thin panel of wood to reach side.  Voila!  A horse-and-carriage, where the horse happens to be invisible.  Another option would be to cover the whole thing in brown shag-fabric (that furry stuff that looks like Chewbacca), and say that it's a horse or camel.  No one will mind that the horse has no head..

Christine --part1_1e6.1f8215.2b61c8cd_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 17:46:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00350 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:46:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NMk1tv004492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NMk019009391; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NMji19009239 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:45:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0NMjhN07735 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:45:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030123143359.032e4468@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers In-Reply-To: <005e01c2c1c1$8fefc6e0$befc8218@hopperflop2> References: <01b801c2c195$e8ded240$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_24031046==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:46:02 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_24031046==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm torn between Anne Hathaway's dress http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1&e=66&t= and Kate Hudson's http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1&e=74&a=0&t= for best dress. Uma Thurman was just glowing http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1&e=17&t=. The stylist worked for their money. At 06:54 PM 1/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I did see the Meryl Streep boob readjustment move -- I loved that she was >totally unselfconscious about it! Her dress was too old for her, I know she can look much better then that. Did anyone catch Faye Dunaway? I hope I look half that good at her age. Kendra wrote: Lara Flynn Boyle (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=217&a=0) gets my vote for worst dressed. First thing that came to my mind was that she was this years' Bjork - interesting Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_24031046==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I'm torn between Anne Hathaway's dress http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1&e=66&t= and Kate Hudson's http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1&e=74&a=0&t= for best dress.

Uma Thurman was just glowing http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1&e=17&t=. The stylist worked for their money.

At 06:54 PM 1/21/2003 -0800, you wrote:
I did see the Meryl Streep boob readjustment move -- I loved that she was
totally unselfconscious about it!

Her dress was too old for her, I know she can look much better then that.  Did anyone catch Faye Dunaway? I hope I look half that good at her age.

Kendra wrote:
Lara Flynn Boyle (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/en/012002globe&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=1 &e=217&a=0) gets my vote for worst dressed.

First thing that came to my mind was that she was this years' Bjork - interesting

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_24031046==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 18:05:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00483 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:05:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NN53tv006414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NN5119019746; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NN4419019173 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from PARIS (12-210-68-255.client.attbi.com[12.210.68.255]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003012323035800100hndg1e>; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:03:58 +0000 From: "Emily Hartman" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers Message-ID: <001001c2c333$b421fd30$ff44d20c@PARIS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2C309.CB4BF530" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <1cc.a5006c.2b61c586@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:03:54 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2C309.CB4BF530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure how many of you have seen this take-off on Lara Flynn Boyle's dress, but it's hilarious. (and strangely he looks better in it than she does) http://www.warofthering.net/images/newsimages/gollum.jpg Emily In a message dated 1/23/03 4:27:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: Seeing that Goldie Hawn is older than I am, she looks decidedly mutton-dressed-as-lamb (a look I try hard to avoid, as a middle-aged woman stuck with a pre-adolescent figure!) - and Lara looks like an extra from "Billy Elliott" Am I to understand that Lara was wearing a *ballet costume*? Yeesh, someone get Joan Rivers from E! And call the Fashion Police, too! Maybe one of us could offer her a makeover, including full period costuming, makeup, and headgear? She'd look a sight prettier... Christine ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2C309.CB4BF530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’m not = sure how many of you have seen this take-off on Lara Flynn Boyle’s dress, = but it’s hilarious.  (and strangely he looks better in it than she = does)

 

http://www.warofthering.net/images/n= ewsimages/gollum.jpg

 

Emily

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 1/23/03 4:27:16 AM Eastern Standard = Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes:


Seeing that Goldie Hawn is older than I am, she looks decidedly = mutton-dressed-as-lamb (a look I try hard to avoid, as a middle-aged woman stuck with a = pre-adolescent figure!) - and Lara looks like an extra from "Billy = Elliott"


=
Am I to = understand that Lara was wearing a *ballet costume*?  Yeesh, someone get Joan = Rivers from E!  And call the Fashion Police, too!  <g>  Maybe = one of us could offer her a makeover, including full period costuming, makeup, = and headgear?  She'd look a sight prettier...

Christine

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2C309.CB4BF530-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 18:17:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00556 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:17:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNH5tv007536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:17:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNH119026405; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0NNGD19025968 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1034 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2003 23:16:13 -0000 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (209.15.2.27) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2003 23:16:13 -0000 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.42.67]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:16:10 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02E2_01C2C30B.803F16B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Con 21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:16:06 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02E2_01C2C30B.803F16B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not sure if I am attending yet as it will depend on family obligations. However, I registered last year and hope to be able to go. I've never been to one of these before - can anyone give me an idea of the ratio of costumed to non-costumed at masquerades, etc? I want to dress up but don't have 20 different costumes to wear to different things! Thanks in advance, Allison ------=_NextPart_000_02E2_01C2C30B.803F16B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Costume Con 21

Not sure if I am attending yet as it will depend on = family obligations. However, I registered last year and hope to be able = to go.

I've never been to one of these before - can anyone = give me an idea of the ratio of costumed to non-costumed at masquerades, = etc? I want to dress up but don't have 20 different costumes to wear to = different things!

Thanks in advance,

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_02E2_01C2C30B.803F16B0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 18:17:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00562 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:17:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNI6tv007618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:18:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNI419027057; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:18:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNHl19026809 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:17:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.b0.334c59ce (4529) for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:17:40 -0500 (EST) From: Morses3@aol.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_b0.334c59ce.2b61d214_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:17:40 EST Status: RO --part1_b0.334c59ce.2b61d214_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it's fair to say that the outfit is too awful almost to even seriously consider....................and yet, for anyone in her line of work, ANY publicity is GOOD publicity. I have to confess I've seen more press about her outfit than any other, and it has brought her name into the public eye, so it's hard to say it's a failure. Perry --part1_b0.334c59ce.2b61d214_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it's fair to say that the outfit is too awful almost to even seriously consider....................and yet, for anyone in her line of work, ANY publicity is GOOD publicity. I have to confess I've seen more press about her outfit than any other, and it has brought her name into the public eye, so it's hard to say it's a failure.

Perry --part1_b0.334c59ce.2b61d214_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 18:40:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00733 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:40:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNf7tv009638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:41:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNf219009167; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0NNeO19008778 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgFbg7E0r9RFPMTgUoaY1SvkwxVW+GBPnQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HN9DNAGD; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:39:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Con 21 Message-ID: <20030123.173827.-241195055.6.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-12 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:38:27 -0600 Status: RO The Masquerades are formal competitions where the entrants do prepared performances on a stage. Their costumes and their performances are then judged for awards by a panel of judges. There will also be 'hall costume' awards given by a secret cabal of judges to unsuspecting costumed people wandering the hallways- no performance or presentation neccessary. The social on Friday night is themed (Gangsters -Pick an era!) and everyone is expected to participate in the theme in some way. Other than that, costumes are entirely voluntary. Wear whatever you like. Many people either don't wear cotumes during the day for panels and classes, or they wear very simple, easy costumes and save the really show-stopping efforts for the evenings. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 18:43:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00761 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:43:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNhEtv009836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNhE19010408; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:43:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNgv19010195 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:42:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net ([10.116.0.123]) by scanmail3.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:40:55 -0700 Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123] by scanmail3.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AD832300142; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:40:54 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:40:53 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers Message-ID: <000a01c2c338$e7c35bc0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2C306.9D28EBC0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030123143359.032e4468@blue.ucdavis.edu> Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:41:06 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2C306.9D28EBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love Rachel Griffiths' dress: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story &u=/030120/168/32rvj.html Kim ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2C306.9D28EBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I love Rachel Griffiths’ = dress:

 

=

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&u=3D/03012= 0/168/32rvj.html

 

=

Kim

 

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------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2C306.9D28EBC0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 18:44:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00766 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:44:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNi3tv009947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNi219010919; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNhe19010655 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.124.94]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9600HJMXWRCN@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:43:40 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume Con 21 In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030123152708.00ce5e40@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:29:07 -0800 Status: RO >Not sure if I am attending yet as it will depend on family obligations. >However, I registered last year and hope to be able to go. > >I've never been to one of these before - can anyone give me an idea of the >ratio of costumed to non-costumed at masquerades, etc? I want to dress up >but don't have 20 different costumes to wear to different things! I don't know about the ratio lately but, since fiber art is costuming, some people show up in interesting wearable-art vests/jackets over regular clothes. One doesn't have to dress up fancy at these. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 18:52:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00838 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:52:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNr2tv010579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNr119015228; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.berkeley.edu [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNqV19014946 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h0NNqUU01353 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.210] (tnt-1-18.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.210]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h0NNqTD01320 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:52:29 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:25:31 -0800 Status: RO > >>> audreybmorin2@hotmail.com 01/23/03 04:43pm >>> >Humans are not made that way, but some people have really sloping shoulders >(I'm NOT one of them, but my bf is, his shirts always tend to wrinkle around >the neckline because his shoulders drop so much) > >I guess it was just a look considered attractive for the period, and the cut >of the dresses emphasized that shape. The artist might have taken liberties >somewhat to make her look more attractive in the portrait... At 4:59 PM +0000 1/23/03, Kate M Bunting wrote: >Queen Victoria is portrayed with very sloping shoulders too. >Mine are so square, I look as though I'm wearing shoulder pads when I'm not! > You really realize how much artistic style has to do with it when you look at Victorian books on historic costume and you recognize specific works of medieval art ... except everyone has Victorian shoulders! Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 19:09:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00963 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:09:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNx2tv010945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNx019017987; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0NNwa19017771 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:58:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp193.directcon.net [206.170.184.193]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0NNv5x9021803; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:57:07 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030123160055.0087eec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, margospatterns@yahoogroups.com From: Margo Anderson In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: [h-cost] Handsewn Shirt pattern Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:00:55 -0800 Status: RO The seventh graders (12 year olds, for those of your outside the American school system) at my children's Waldorf school are doing a unit on handsewing. They are supposed to make an actual garment, and since the 7th grade curriculum also includes studying the Renaissance, and since they'll be doing the Maypole dance at the school's Renaissnace Faire, the teacher would like to have them make simple renaissance styled shirts. Guess who they asked for a pattern? Most of the children have never sewn before, but they've been doing handwork such as knitting since they were six years old, so they're not as intimidated by hand sewing as most would be. I already have perfectly nice patterns on hand for an Elizabethan shirt and high necked smock (we want to encourage modesty in young girls, harumph!) What I'm wondering is, is the authentic styling, with the teeny neck gussets and the banded collar and cuffs, too difficult for beginners? If so, what would be easier and still give the impression of a renaissance style? Also, I've never actually handsewn anything more complicated than an apron. I know run and fell seams were usually used for shirt seams, is there anything else I should tell them? Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 19:22:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01043 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:22:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0M4tv012594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0M119028724; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0LD19028406 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo.radix.net (ip149.sns.du.radix.net [207.192.133.149]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0O0LAMw006890 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:21:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030123182337.01f1bf08@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] OT: Library Science Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:24:30 -0500 Status: RO This is off-topic... but, I know that some of the folks on this list are librarians. Could you please email me off-list? I'm contemplating a change of career course, and have a few questions. Thanks, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 19:22:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01053 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:22:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0N1tv012657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0N119029130; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0Mg19029011 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:22:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.139]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h0O0UfB01205 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:30:42 +1100 Message-ID: <047401c2c33f$3154eb40$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20030123160055.0087eec0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Handsewn Shirt pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:26:06 +1100 Status: RO Margo, I would say that gussets are definitely too fiddly for beginners - they can get fiddly towards those points, especially when felling the seam down - too many layers of material at once! I find them quite difficult to do myself, and I've handsewed over 10 shirts/tunics with gussets. You could leave them baggy at the shoulder, or go with a shoulder seam that slopes slightly. Baggy is less sewing, though! Generic renaissance would have baggy sleeves anyway, so it wouldn't look out of place. I don't think that the banded cuffs and collars would be that difficult to sew, if you sew them on with the outside seam as a run (I use a double-run to be sure myself) first, and then the inside seam as a standard hem, rather than trying to sew the whole thing at once. Also, another thing to make the sewing easy with the cuffs is to quickly sew the pleats/gathers in place before attaching the cuff. Stops things slipping around, or getting bled with pin pricks. Sounds like they'll have a great time being able to use the things they're making, and not just for a once-off either - 12yos always have a need for a pirate shirt. BTW: I know I've been slack - I've been busy working away at new clothes for my husband and son since December, and haven't told anyone about them - I'll do it soon, honest, with photos - we're getting a new digital camera any day now. They're taking their time in getting made as it's summer holidays here and I'm trying to work, get out a bit, and not get too hot sewing woolens in heat up to 40 C (thank goodness for a/c). Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: ; Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 11:00 AM Subject: [h-cost] Handsewn Shirt pattern > The seventh graders (12 year olds, for those of your outside the American > school system) at my children's Waldorf school are doing a unit on > handsewing. They are supposed to make an actual garment, and since the 7th > grade curriculum also includes studying the Renaissance, and since they'll > be doing the Maypole dance at the school's Renaissnace Faire, the teacher > would like to have them make simple renaissance styled shirts. Guess who > they asked for a pattern? > > Most of the children have never sewn before, but they've been doing > handwork such as knitting since they were six years old, so they're not as > intimidated by hand sewing as most would be. > > I already have perfectly nice patterns on hand for an Elizabethan shirt and > high necked smock (we want to encourage modesty in young girls, harumph!) > What I'm wondering is, is the authentic styling, with the teeny neck > gussets and the banded collar and cuffs, too difficult for beginners? If > so, what would be easier and still give the impression of a renaissance > style? > > Also, I've never actually handsewn anything more complicated than an apron. > I know run and fell seams were usually used for shirt seams, is there > anything else I should tell them? > > Margo > > > "One Tough Costumer" > > > See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at > margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 19:30:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01082 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:30:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0V3tv013082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0V219002519; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from a.smtp-out.sonic.net (a.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0O0UH19002226 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 28191 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2003 00:30:17 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by a.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2003 00:30:17 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-97.sonic.net [209.148.112.97]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h0O0UGx17290 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:30:16 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3E308933.7020705@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Margo's Renaissance Shirt for Kids Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:30:43 -0800 Status: RO Margo, You might consider looking at a couple Victorian or Edwardian manuals for teachers of grade school level sewing. Yes, I know these are Renaissance shirts and 21st-century children. However, the manuals are interesting in that they break down exactly what order to teach stitches in, what words to use to explain things to the kids, etc. Some are practically canned lectures. They usually have stitch diagrams too. I know one I have is _Needlework and Cutting Out_ by Emily G. Jones (1885), and another with a similar title by Agnes Walker, from somewhere in the 1890s. That's practically a generic title for this type of book from circa 1880 to 1910, and a search on it tends to yield multiple results. Anyway, you might find these books interesting. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 19:36:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01152 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:36:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0b4tv013525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O0b219005123; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0O0aJ19004838 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:36:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 13420 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2003 01:23:30 -0000 Received: from 66-44-47-12.s1790.apx1.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO oldwaylane.net) (66.44.47.12) by shada.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2003 01:23:30 -0000 Message-ID: <3E308B90.7020704@oldwaylane.net> From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see? References: <001b01c2c1d6$75255c20$befc8218@hopperflop2> <001a01c2c27b$b64200a0$ef42a6d0@bookbusiness> <3E2F59B0.7000306@oldwaylane.net> <3E300951.6424070D@mccc.edu> In-Reply-To: <3E300951.6424070D@mccc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: judymitch@oldwaylane.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:40:48 -0500 Status: RO Kate Pinner wrote: > You say right by the expressway--which one? I don't know Philly that well and > only know how to get there by Roosevelt to Whitaker to Erie to I Street. Would > love to know a better way. > Kate I don't know Philly well at all, but when I come off of I95, I take the exit for Bath/Alleghany (it's new exit 25), and turn onto Westmoreland St at the bottom of the ramp (mind you, I'm coming from the south). If you take Westmoreland, through all the stop signs and stop lights, It makes a soft Right turn underneath the elevated subway (you know your there when you see a support column in the middle of the street) and becomes I St. Then it's just a couple of blocks up from there on the Right hand side: building with JOMAR in big black letters. the place is a dive, but they have rolls of fabric 3 deep on the very long tables, and stacked up along the wall and on the wall, and it takes up the entire 2nd floor of the building. Yes, they take plastic. The wool is mostly to the left of the cash register area, and there is linen (not a lot) hiding IN the far end of a table of cottons. I don't know if they have any left, but they even had rolls of 25yds of sew-in interface for $5. have fun! -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 21:15:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01609 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:15:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O2G3tv019384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O2G019011656; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O2FU19011460 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:15:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a210.in-tch.com [66.62.107.10]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0O1wor26075 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:58:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E30A1EB.4484133F@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:16:11 -0700 Status: RO Yeah, well, none of us would ever catch up with you, either! (or Bjarne, or Margo, or.....) --sue, who'd *love* to be able to come.....*sniff* (and yes, I know what you both meant) Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > > I've been toying with the thought of attending this event. It would > > give me a chance to catch up with Drea ... > > My dear, none of us will *ever* catch up with Drea. I am convinced she is > identical triplets. Either that or she never sleeps, ever. > > --Robin > (yes, I knew what you meant ;-) ) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 22:37:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02016 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:37:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O3b3tv023908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O3b119009913; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0O3aR19009702 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:36:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9349 invoked by uid 1005); 24 Jan 2003 03:36:13 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.065852 secs); 24 Jan 2003 03:36:13 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.065852 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2003 03:36:13 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 In-Reply-To: <3E30A1EB.4484133F@in-tch.com> Message-ID: <20030123223342.J94453-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:36:22 -0500 (EST) Status: RO OK, I have in one fell swoop abandoned the idea for a crimson bias-cut gown for the Friday night soiree (let's face it, these hips just don't jibe with bias cut anything) and have done a complete about face: I'm now looking for a good zoot suit pattern. Anyone know of one? I've heard gail's rant about the Vogue pattern, so I'm a bit leery of that one. Any other ones you guys know of? Thanks, Drea the totally clueless when it comes to 30s dress On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Yeah, well, none of us would ever catch up with you, either! (or > Bjarne, or Margo, or.....) > --sue, who'd *love* to be able to come.....*sniff* > (and yes, I know what you both meant) > > Robin Netherton wrote: > > > > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > > > > I've been toying with the thought of attending this event. It would > > > give me a chance to catch up with Drea ... > > > > My dear, none of us will *ever* catch up with Drea. I am convinced she is > > identical triplets. Either that or she never sleeps, ever. > > > > --Robin > > (yes, I knew what you meant ;-) ) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 23:30:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02257 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:30:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O4V5tv027203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:31:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O4V019028374; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O4UL19028158 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:30:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1d7.ac5c35 (25305) for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:30:11 -0500 (EST) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <1d7.ac5c35.2b621b52@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1d7.ac5c35.2b621b52_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Jo-Mar in Philadelphia Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:30:10 EST Status: RO --part1_1d7.ac5c35.2b621b52_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are at least two Jo-Mars in Philadelphia as well as others in the surrounding area. One is right off I-95 and is easiest to see when driving north on I-95. The other one is at the intersection of Atlantic and I streets. Of the two, I recommend the latter as it seems to be bigger and have a wider selection. There is also another closeout store next to it which occasionally has interesting things. The address is 3525 I Street. Finding the entrance back onto 95 can be difficult whichever one you go to. Have fun! Nancy Stengel Ulmer (Maddalena Salutati) --part1_1d7.ac5c35.2b621b52_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are at least two Jo-Mars in Philadelphia as well as others in the surrounding area.  One is right off I-95 and is easiest to see when driving north on I-95.  The other one is at the intersection of Atlantic and I streets.  Of the two, I recommend the latter as it seems to be bigger and have a wider selection.  There is also another closeout store next to it which occasionally has interesting things.

The address is 3525 I Street.

Finding the entrance back onto 95 can be difficult whichever one you go to.

Have fun!

Nancy Stengel Ulmer
(Maddalena Salutati) --part1_1d7.ac5c35.2b621b52_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 23 23:57:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02311 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:57:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O4w3tv028798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O4w219007017; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O4vE19006752 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:57:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h0O4vD4288657 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:57:13 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Handsewn Shirt pattern In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030123160055.0087eec0@pop.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:57:13 -0600 (CST) Status: RO > Also, I've never actually handsewn anything more complicated than an apron. > I know run and fell seams were usually used for shirt seams, is there > anything else I should tell them? Whatever you do, don't tell them it's hard! Several of the beginning sewers I've walked through the steps of tunic-making set gussets much more nicely than I do, because I never told them it would be difficult. To them, it was just one more hurdle to jump over in a long series of them. Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 24 00:11:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02332 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:11:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O5Bitv000231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:11:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O5B14O012530; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0O5AR4O012228 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:10:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgFbg7E0r9RFgJZmu6hbiB0sMBaqYWcx5g=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HN9YHH97; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:09:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 Message-ID: <20030123.230432.-241195055.8.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-8 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:04:32 -0600 Status: RO Hi Drea, I'm not completely conversant in 1930's dresses myself, but I always find the David Suchet 'Hercule Poirot' mysteries very inspirational, lots of terrific '30's styles, especially on the intrepid Miss Lemon. By the way, I have no idea what I'm wearing to the social yet either! Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:06:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11047 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:06:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PM5itv023376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:05:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PM5iTJ020571; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:05:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0O8d24O010025 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:39:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030124083857.15817.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:38:57 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <1cc.a5006c.2b61c586@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:38:57 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/23/03 4:27:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Am I to understand that Lara was wearing a *ballet costume*? Yeesh, someone > get Joan Rivers from E! And call the Fashion Police, too! Maybe one of Okay, maybe I'm a pervert or something, but I LIKED it and I absolutely loved the cute shoes with the criss crosed satin ribbons up her calves. Nicole - former ballet etudiante ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:11:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13845 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:11:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PM7Ptv023575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PM7OTJ021141; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:07:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0OE9w4O028308 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1d2.b406ce (4568) for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:09:39 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1d2.b406ce.2b62a323@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Handsewn Shirt pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1d2.b406ce.2b62a323_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:09:39 EST Status: RO --part1_1d2.b406ce.2b62a323_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/2003 7:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes: > What I'm wondering is, is the authentic styling, with the teeny neck > gussets and the banded collar and cuffs, too difficult for beginners? If > so, what would be easier and still give the impression of a renaissance > style? > > I would say, nix the neck gussets--even experienced sewers can find them difficult. I would shape the neck like a modern shirt/blouse, and the gusset wouldn't be necessary. You could do a simple stand-up collar--probably as simple an option as any other way of finishing the neckline. The cuff could also be difficult--I would definitely suggest only a slit in the seam for the opening, if you go for cuffs. You might want to consider an option of no cuff, but only a hemmed sleeve. I'm speaking from experience--many novice sewers, especially middle school age, don't have the skills or the interest to do even a passable job. A few, of course, will really take to the project, enjoy it, and do a good job. Good luck! Ann Wass --part1_1d2.b406ce.2b62a323_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/2003 7:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes:


What I'm wondering is, is the authentic styling, with the teeny neck
gussets and the banded collar and cuffs, too difficult for beginners?  If
so, what would be easier and still give the impression of a renaissance
style? 



I would say, nix the neck gussets--even experienced sewers can find them difficult.  I would shape the neck like a modern shirt/blouse, and the gusset wouldn't be necessary.  You could do a simple stand-up collar--probably as simple an option as any other way of finishing the neckline.  The cuff could also be difficult--I would definitely suggest only a slit in the seam for the opening, if you go for cuffs.  You might want to consider an option of no cuff, but only a hemmed sleeve.

I'm speaking from experience--many novice sewers, especially middle school age, don't have the skills or the interest to do even a passable job.  A few, of course, will really take to the project, enjoy it, and do a good job.

Good luck!
Ann Wass --part1_1d2.b406ce.2b62a323_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:12:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14262 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:12:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PM64tv023457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PM64TJ020736; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0OBkt4O023313 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5757 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2003 11:46:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.193.51]) (envelope-sender ) by relay03.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.3) with SMTP for ; 24 Jan 2003 11:46:54 -0000 Message-ID: <005501c2c39e$675a1080$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: References: <3.0.6.32.20030123160055.0087eec0@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Handsewn Shirt pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 06:47:42 -0500 Status: RO The seventh graders (12 year olds, for those of your outside the American > school system) at my children's Waldorf school are doing a unit on > handsewing. They are supposed to make an actual garment, and since the 7th > grade curriculum also includes studying the Renaissance {snipped) I agree that they can do it if they don't know it is supposed to be hard. But let me warn you, THEY LOSE NEEDLES. Actually, they lose pins, thread, their pieces of their project, but needles ? One student can lose a package in a class. There are only 3 posted rules in my classroom, but this is where they start to understand why I am not Mom is a posted rule. Think NOW about how you are going to stress not losing things, and how you are going to help them have an organized place to put it. It is why I have them sew star-shaped pincushions first - and stress it everystep of the way. By the way, I had not thought about how fast the seam rippers would disappear. Even in the best of my classes, they disappear. Even more than just being lost, they are far too tempting a weapon/annoyance for many students. Rules of the Classroom: 1) No gum 2) I'm not Mom 3) Is it Yours? Rowena, in upstate NY York, where it is barely above zero even when it "arms up" for the day, and it keeps on snowing! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:13:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14726 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:13:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PM28tv023198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PM1wTJ019652; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:01:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0O63u4O029441 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-007neomahp260.dialsprint.net ([63.178.237.150] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18bwwU-0001Z0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:03:55 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030123235654.0195c4b0@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <20030123110701.1902.30919.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: CC 21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:03:39 -0600 Status: RO Robin, For the wig, at least, you can try Lacey Costume Wigs in New York City. They have a huge selection of styles, REALLY cheap. I don't think they have a web site, and I don't have my catalog handy (anyone else, maybe?) but you should be able to get their phone number from directory assistance, if nothing else. We haven't ordered from them in a year or so, but they always remember our (infrequent) orders. Very nice people. When last we ordered, I think their most expensive wig (other than the real human hair ones) was about $50, and that was for the super-elaborate Marie Antionette with tons of rolls and curls. Most are $10 or $15 or less. Sandy >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:42:07 -0600 (CST) >From: Robin Netherton >Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 > >It hit me about a week ago that I'm going to a CostumeCon and don't have a >thing to wear, because I rarely make costumes for myself anymore. > Now I'm cruising eBay and thrift >stores looking for vintage patterns and the right accessories. It would be >very tempting to spend much too much money just on the add-ons that would >complete the look, but I keep reminding myself I will wear it a whopping >three hours of my life. Oh, but the right wig, and shoes, and purse would >be *just* the right touches. And they're all out there. >--Robin "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:22:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20762 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:22:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMJPtv024169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:19:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMJOTJ024266; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:19:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0OGNt01024325 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:23:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-178.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.178]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id h0OGNrw28655 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:23:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003701c2c3c5$40831020$b207d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: "Historic Costume List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Potential Workshop Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:24:11 -0500 Status: RO Here at Five Rivers we are thinking of putting together a Regency Corset workshop weekend with Deb Salisbury of The Mantua-Maker, some time in 2004. There are a lot of details to work out, as well as feasibility of bringing Deb up to Neustadt, Ontario from California. We are located, BTW, about three hours northwest of Toronto, just south of Hanover, east of Walkerton. Said another way, we are about 1 1/2 hours northwest of Guelph, Ontario. Tentatively we'd been looking at around April or May of 2004, with guests to arrive Friday evening and leave Sunday evening or Monday morning. We can accommodate up to 10 people, two in truckle beds in the loft, the remaining eight in sleeping bags in the loft. Imagine a sort of bunkhouse/pj party. All meals will be included. If I can get a full complement of people there is a very real possibility of having the weekend catered. All materials would be included. In addition, Deb has said if anyone had a Mantua-Maker pattern they wished assistance with she would be pleased to do that after-hours. This, BTW, would be a handsewn corset weekend. Whatever you did after hours would be up to you. If we had over 10 participants we would have to look at people either camping in tents in the backyard, which could be done, or choosing to book in at the village's local B&B. So, if the list wouldn't mind, we'd really appreciate some feedback. Please respond privately to feedback@5rivers.org so we don't clutter up the list with discussion of something not entirely relavant to its mandate. 1. Would you be interested in attending a weekend workshop on Regency Corset making? 2. Would the tentative cost of $220.00/person (includes workshop, kit, accommodations here and meals) be acceptable? 3. Would April be an acceptable month to hold the workshop? If not, which month would be better? 4. Would travel to Neustadt, Ontario be acceptable, or is the distance a problem? 5. Any other suggestions? Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:22:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20824 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:22:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMJctv024200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:19:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMJcTJ024359; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:19:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0OGdo01002917 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:39:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.143] (pm5-143.eos.net [205.133.149.143]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10179 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:39:48 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030123231700.26388.48167.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re:golden globe fashion bloopers Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:36:43 -0500 Status: RO Emily, thanks for posting that link, it's too funny! Not to defend Lara Flynn Boyle, but I saw the picture in a magazine and she did say it was supposed to be a joke. Personally, I thought she might be having a "Twin Peaks" flashback! Gail Finke quoted message starts here: I'm not sure how many of you have seen this take-off on Lara Flynn Boyle's dress, but it's hilarious. (and strangely he looks better in it than she does) http://www.warofthering.net/images/newsimages/gollum.jpg Emily _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:22:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20875 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:22:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMNAtv024666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMNATJ025539; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe51.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0OLh4k1019530 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:43:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:42:59 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <20030123223342.J94453-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Zoot Suit pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2003 21:42:59.0470 (UTC) FILETIME=[9043EAE0:01C2C3F1] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:42:58 -0500 Status: RO There's one from McCall's Costumes, I have REALLY no idea what it's worth, since McCall's costume patterns tend to look... well... like Halloween costumes, rather than recreations... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drea Leed" To: Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 > OK, I have in one fell swoop abandoned the idea for a crimson bias-cut > gown for the Friday night soiree (let's face it, these hips just don't > jibe with bias cut anything) and have done a complete about face: I'm now > looking for a good zoot suit pattern. Anyone know of one? I've heard > gail's rant about the Vogue pattern, so I'm a bit leery of that one. Any > other ones you guys know of? > > Thanks, > > Drea the totally clueless when it comes to 30s dress _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:25:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22514 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:25:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMJhtv024227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMJhTJ024396; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0OGm601007600 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0OGm6N26418 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:48:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030124083736.00b888f0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie In-Reply-To: <20030123223342.J94453-100000@shell.siscom.net> References: <3E30A1EB.4484133F@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1454875==.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] Re: CostumeCon 21 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:48:25 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_1454875==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I think McCall's came out with one too though I haven't tried it. Have you looked at Revamp's page? Plenty of affordable dresses and even suits there. I had been debating on what to do for Friday night as well. I torn between my black silk 30's bias cut dress (if I can loose post Gaskell's pounds) or going as a suffragette or woman's axillary so I can run around scolding people on the evils of gin and the Charleston >; ) At 10:36 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: >OK, I have in one fell swoop abandoned the idea for a crimson bias-cut >gown for the Friday night soiree (let's face it, these hips just don't >jibe with bias cut anything) and have done a complete about face: I'm now >looking for a good zoot suit pattern. Anyone know of one? I've heard >gail's rant about the Vogue pattern, so I'm a bit leery of that one. Any >other ones you guys know of? > >Thanks, > >Drea the totally clueless when it comes to 30s dress > >On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Yeah, well, none of us would ever catch up with you, either! (or > > Bjarne, or Margo, or.....) > > --sue, who'd *love* to be able to come.....*sniff* > > (and yes, I know what you both meant) > > > > Robin Netherton wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > > > > > > > I've been toying with the thought of attending this event. It would > > > > give me a chance to catch up with Drea ... > > > > > > My dear, none of us will *ever* catch up with Drea. I am convinced she is > > > identical triplets. Either that or she never sleeps, ever. > > > > > > --Robin > > > (yes, I knew what you meant ;-) ) Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_1454875==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I think McCall's came out with one too though I haven't tried it. Have you looked at Revamp's page? Plenty of affordable dresses and even suits there.

I had been debating on what to do for Friday night as well. I torn between my black silk 30's bias cut dress (if I can loose post Gaskell's pounds) or going as a suffragette or woman's axillary so I can run around scolding people on the evils of gin and the Charleston >; )

At 10:36 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
OK, I have in one fell swoop abandoned the idea for a crimson bias-cut
gown for the Friday night soiree (let's face it, these hips just don't
jibe with bias cut anything) and have done a complete about face: I'm now
looking for a good zoot suit pattern.  Anyone know of one?  I've heard
gail's rant about the Vogue pattern, so I'm a bit leery of that one.  Any
other ones you guys know of?

Thanks,

Drea the totally clueless when it comes to 30s dress

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote:

> Yeah, well, none of us would ever catch up with you, either! <weg> (or
> Bjarne, or Margo, or.....)
> --sue, who'd *love* to be able to come.....*sniff*
> (and yes, I know what you both meant)
>
> Robin Netherton wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote:
> >
> > > I've been toying with the thought of attending this event. It would
> > > give me a chance to catch up with Drea ...
> >
> > My dear, none of us will *ever* catch up with Drea. I am convinced she is
> > identical triplets. Either that or she never sleeps, ever.
> >
> > --Robin
> > (yes, I knew what you meant ;-) )

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_1454875==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:25:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22783 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:25:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMJstv024289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMJsTJ024480; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0OHDQ01022283 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:13:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0OHDQN08550 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:13:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030124090439.00b9e580@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2974828==.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] crinolines and petticoats Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:13:44 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_2974828==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm hoping to purchase two items before CC21 to save myself some time. I'm looking for a med sized 1850's crinoline (about 120" circ.) and at least one well made petticoat to go over it. Alteryears used to make a decent crinoline in two sizes but I was told that they quit manufacturing these a while ago. Sure I can make one but part of the "deal" I made with my department is that I will have all my grants ready and out the door before I leave on the 17th. That means my time for sewing will be slim to say the least. Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_2974828==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

I'm hoping to purchase two items before CC21 to save myself some time.  I'm looking for a med sized 1850's crinoline (about 120" circ.) and at least one well made petticoat to go over it. Alteryears used to make a decent crinoline in two sizes but I was told that they quit manufacturing these a while ago. 

Sure I can make one but part of the "deal" I made with my department is that I will have all my grants ready and out the door before I leave on the 17th. That means my time for sewing will be slim to say the least.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_2974828==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:27:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23677 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:27:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMRKtv025057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:27:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMRHTJ026834; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:27:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0P6QtN0019119 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 23:26:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1b8.cf68100 (4340) for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 01:23:36 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <1b8.cf68100.2b638767@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1b8.cf68100.2b638767_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 01:23:35 EST Status: RO --part1_1b8.cf68100.2b638767_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all! Could someone perhaps point me in the direction of a decent Elizabethan (specifically royal) pattern for women? I've found Margo Anderson's patterns, and while they're lovely and very authentic (so it seems, anyhow, from the glowing reviews), spending $75 on patterns for a single dress is not something I want to do until I've exhausted all other options. Her patterns, while they look wonderful to work with, are just a little steep for a starving college student. Which I will be, in a short time! Please note that "options" does not include drafting my own patterns- I'm not at that level yet! Christine --part1_1b8.cf68100.2b638767_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all!

Could someone perhaps point me in the direction of a decent Elizabethan (specifically royal) pattern for women?  I've found Margo Anderson's patterns, and while they're lovely and very authentic (so it seems, anyhow, from the glowing reviews), spending $75 on patterns for a single dress is not something I want to do until I've exhausted all other options.  Her patterns, while they look wonderful to work with, are just a little steep for a starving college student.  Which I will be, in a short time!  Please note that "options" does not include drafting my own patterns- I'm not at that level yet!


Christine --part1_1b8.cf68100.2b638767_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:28:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24333 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:28:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMSdtv025201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMScTJ027365; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:28:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PGjdN0004834 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:45:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18cTR3-0002ks-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:45:38 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress References: <3E2D5D04.B9FC8341@bigpond.com> <20030122082054.80492.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030122082054.80492.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:44:13 +0000 Status: RO Oh I'm so disappointed! We always reckoned that off-the-shoulder style developed because the king required that all the ladies in waiting should be ready to fall out of their dresses at a moment's notice :-) Jean N Kipar wrote > --- Claire Clarke wrote: > > >> The off the shoulder dress was a 1660's style, which was designed to be >> off >> the shoulder. The shoulder straps cover the top 5cm or so of the arm. >> This does >> make it difficult to move my shoulders (ie I have a fairly restricted >> arm movement) >> which is a bit annoying, but the straps don't fall down, mainly I think, >> because the >> bodice is boned within an inch of its life. > >The samegoes for my 1660s dress and everyone else's in the group. The trick >isnot in the straps at all, they need no tension, at least in ths period, >because the bodices were fully boned, which means there is no way anything can >move on the body at all, not up, not down, not sideways, nothing, it is like a >Victorian corset in a way, if that makes sense. The green dress that you showed >us looks as if its bodice was boned too. >We re-creaters are not the only ones with the problem of not being able to move >the arms very much. That's the whole point, one wasn't. This is why I have yet >to see a representation of a woman who does any kind of physical work, wearing >an off-the-shoulder bodice in the 1650s, 60s and 70s. I am currently >researching/writing on the gender implications rearding those gowns. All will >be revealed in appr. 5 years time. *laughs* > >Nicole > >===== >Nicole Kipar M.A. >URL: http://www.kipar.org/ >Email: nicole@kipar.org > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:30:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25509 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:30:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMUItv025367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMUHTJ027957; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMQlTJ026644 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:26:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003012522264200200ehf8fe>; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:26:42 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030125141111.00a15ec0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones In-Reply-To: <1d2.b406ce.2b62a323@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Lysistrata Project/Greek Costumes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:24:58 -0800 Status: RO Hi - I hope that this post doesn't offend anyone. It is much more political in nature than most are. If it does, please ignore the political content and just address the costume content and accept my apologies. I want to have the co-housing community that I live in participate in the Lysistrata Project. This (and here comes the political content) is a project to have readings of Lysistrata on March 3rd all over the world to protest the possibility of war. I would like to consider having the readers in costume. I think that that would be fun, assuming that I can convince anybody to wear costumes. However, I don't have any idea what the ancient Greek women would have been wearing. I think that for the men it would be knee length tunics and a toga, but what would the women have worn? Did they wear togas? Am I right about the men? I appreciate any information anyone can give me. If anyone is in the Sacramento area and would like to attend, let me know, probably off the list at mabse@attbi.com. thanks, maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:40:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32221 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:40:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMf1tv025949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMf0TJ000869; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMeMTJ000683 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:40:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.194.142527f2 (4116) for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:40:14 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <194.142527f2.2b646c4e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lysistrata Project/Greek Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_194.142527f2.2b646c4e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:40:14 EST Status: RO --part1_194.142527f2.2b646c4e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally, I found Lysistrata to be incredibly entertaining, although I had a very old translation. Greek women often wore chitons. Homeric and Archaic periods included the Doric and Ionic chitons, which (according to the drawing I've got from a costuming book) are basically a drawstring skirt, embroidered or with a pattern down at the hem, and a tunic, the hem of which would also be embroidered/patterned. The Doric chiton seems to be belted, while the Ionic is left loose. They could also wear a Peplos, which is a skirt, and a one-shoulder tunic. Hope this helps! Christine In a message dated 1/25/03 5:31:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, mabse@attbi.com writes: > I would like to consider having the readers in costume. I think that that > would be fun, assuming that I can convince anybody to wear > costumes. However, I don't have any idea what the ancient Greek women > would have been wearing. I think that for the men it would be knee length > tunics and a toga, but what would the women have worn? Did they wear > togas? Am I right about the men? --part1_194.142527f2.2b646c4e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally, I found Lysistrata to be incredibly entertaining, although I had a very old translation.  Greek women often wore chitons.  Homeric and Archaic periods included the Doric and Ionic chitons, which (according to the drawing I've got from a costuming book) are basically a drawstring skirt, embroidered or with a pattern down at the hem, and a tunic, the hem of which would also be embroidered/patterned.  The Doric chiton seems to be belted, while the Ionic is left loose.  They could also wear a Peplos, which is a skirt, and a one-shoulder tunic.  Hope this helps!

Christine


In a message dated 1/25/03 5:31:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, mabse@attbi.com writes:

I would like to consider having the readers in costume.  I think that that
would be fun, assuming that I can convince anybody to wear
costumes.  However, I don't have any idea what the ancient Greek women
would have been wearing.  I think that for the men it would be knee length
tunics and a toga, but what would the women have worn?  Did they wear
togas? Am I right about the men?


 --part1_194.142527f2.2b646c4e_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:41:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00469 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:41:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMg1tv026000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMg0TJ001116; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0PMfSTJ000962 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:41:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030125224123.948.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:41:23 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns question-was:1540's Italian Dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:41:23 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Jean Waddie wrote: > Oh I'm so disappointed! We always reckoned that off-the-shoulder style > developed because the king required that all the ladies in waiting > should be ready to fall out of their dresses at a moment's notice :-) Doesn't work Jean, I'm afraid it rrrreally doesn't work *grins* No falling-out-of-dresses when the bodice is boned. Gosh I love that little mean joke with the ogling boys 'oh please Nicole lean forward' sure I do/can! There is no way anything moves even a millimetre. Those poor disappointed hormone-driven sweeties. ;-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:44:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02988 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:44:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMj1tv026170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMj1TJ001978; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0PMiKTJ001766 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:44:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030125224414.111.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:44:14 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <1b8.cf68100.2b638767@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:44:14 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO > while they look wonderful to work with, are just a little steep for a > starving college student. Which I will be, in a short time! Please note > that "options" does not include drafting my own patterns- I'm not at that > level yet! Are you able to upscale patterns? Not quite drafting your own ones, but using small scape patterns from books and then blowing them up and adjusting so to speak. If yes, get Janet Arnold from the library and work with a small scale pattern of this. If not, uhm, well, I wouldn't know where else to get a patterm from, it's my one big problem too. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 17:55:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11021 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:55:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMu2tv026743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMu1TJ004539; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PMtuTJ004521 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:55:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18cZDQ-0006nS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:55:56 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lysistrata Project/Greek Costumes Message-ID: <000a01c2c4c4$f447de60$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030125141111.00a15ec0@mail.attbi.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:56:09 -0700 Status: RO I saw an absolutely fantastic production of Lysistrata done by the Hamburg Opera Company in while living over there in 1972. All the costumes were done in leather-the curtain too! The chorus were all 'old people' with boobs and rolls of fat filled with rice. The men had bright red leather phalluses with a metal cap and black leather leggings that looked like regular trousers from the front but were tied in the back in the most strategic places!! Fabulous costumes-oh and the music was great. Sorry this probably doesn't help Maryann much, but it was such a great memory! I heard about this project on the news and am looking for someone local to see it. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 18:02:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15853 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:02:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PN22tv027015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PN21TJ005838; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cybrhost.net (server051.cybrmall.net [63.74.12.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PN1oTJ005773 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [68.37.50.136] (HELO cc707811b) by cybrhost.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.1) with ESMTP id 8979159 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:01:54 -0800 From: "Suzanne" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Zoot Suit pattern Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:01:53 -0500 Status: RO Vogue has a fairly decent one that I've heard good things about from the Zoot Suit crowd. Suzanne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drea Leed" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:36 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon 21 > > > > OK, I have in one fell swoop abandoned the idea for a crimson bias-cut > > gown for the Friday night soiree (let's face it, these hips just don't > > jibe with bias cut anything) and have done a complete about > face: I'm now > > looking for a good zoot suit pattern. Anyone know of one? I've heard > > gail's rant about the Vogue pattern, so I'm a bit leery of that > one. Any > > other ones you guys know of? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Drea the totally clueless when it comes to 30s dress > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 18:33:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09646 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:33:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PNO2tv028284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PNO1TJ011089; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20207.mail.yahoo.com (web20207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0PNNaTJ010984 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:23:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030125232335.60026.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:23:35 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <1b8.cf68100.2b638767@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:23:35 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > Hi all! > > Could someone perhaps point me in the direction of a > decent Elizabethan > (specifically royal) pattern for women? I've found > Margo Anderson's > patterns, and while they're lovely and very > authentic (so it seems, anyhow, > from the glowing reviews), spending $75 on patterns > for a single dress is not > something I want to do until I've exhausted all > other options. Her patterns, > while they look wonderful to work with, are just a > little steep for a > starving college student. Which I will be, in a > short time! Please note > that "options" does not include drafting my own > patterns- I'm not at that > level yet! Hi Christine, what about Simplicity 8881? It's not Margo's, but it's semi-decent. With a few minor changes it could be reasonably authentic. Here's Margo's review of this pattern: There are a few reviews three quarters of the way down this page: Good Luck! Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 18:34:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09933 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:34:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PNW1tv028880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0PNW0TJ012995; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0PNV6TJ012731 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:31:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWoWjMw/K5824Mdi+Q0dWGc2o1n1QAVK7oQ=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPEHVLDR; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:30:02 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? Message-ID: <20030125.182910.-497543.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:29:10 -0500 Status: RO Bite the bullet and get Margo's patterns. Maybe you can get just the gown pattern for now, and work out the underwear and accessories from instructions on the net and pictures. I got the whole set and really love it. It is worth every penny. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 19:24:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06399 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:24:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q0P2tv001393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q0P0TJ003130; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0Q0OTTJ002992 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:24:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 31157 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2003 00:24:30 -0000 Received: from libra.hosting4u.net (209.15.2.27) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2003 00:24:30 -0000 Received: from ctrlalt ([68.49.42.67]) by libra.hosting4u.net ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:24:28 -0600 From: "A.Thurman" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0356_01C2C4A7.602CB380" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Rcpt-To: Subject: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:24:25 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0356_01C2C4A7.602CB380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm about to finish a pair of stays (late 16th c. - the pattern from Drea's site with tabs) and I seem to remember reading here months ago that lacing them from bottom to top makes them easier to put on, or something. Or was that lacing top to bottom? If anyone remembers the discussion I'm talking about let me know which way I should lace these! Thanks in advance, Allison ------=_NextPart_000_0356_01C2C4A7.602CB380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Question: Spiral lacing - which direction?

I'm about to finish a pair of stays (late 16th c. - = the pattern from Drea's site with tabs) and I seem to remember reading = here months ago that lacing them from bottom to top makes them easier to = put on, or something. Or was that lacing top to bottom?

If anyone remembers the discussion I'm talking about = let me know which way I should lace these!

Thanks in advance,

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_0356_01C2C4A7.602CB380-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 19:29:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06451 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:29:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q0U2tv001639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q0U1TJ004305; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (relay01.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q0TtTJ004259 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:29:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20088 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2003 00:29:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO livingroom) ([170.215.238.218]) (envelope-sender ) by relay01.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 26 Jan 2003 00:29:54 -0000 Message-ID: <00d101c2c4d2$0d1dd3b0$01fea8c0@livingroom> From: "Lyn Greaves- home" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2C4A8.241A7A20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:29:55 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2C4A8.241A7A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Question: Spiral lacing - which direction?I have found over the years = that whichever way you lace the "extra bits" that you are compressing = will travel. Me, I lace bottom to top-- I just don't need the extra = around my already ample hips and waist. YMMV Lyn Greaves Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander ----- Original Message -----=20 From: A.Thurman=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 7:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? I'm about to finish a pair of stays (late 16th c. - the pattern from = Drea's site with tabs) and I seem to remember reading here months ago = that lacing them from bottom to top makes them easier to put on, or = something. Or was that lacing top to bottom? If anyone remembers the discussion I'm talking about let me know which = way I should lace these!=20 Thanks in advance,=20 Allison=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2C4A8.241A7A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Question: Spiral lacing - which direction?
I have found over the years that = whichever way you=20 lace the "extra bits" that you are compressing will travel.  Me, I = lace=20 bottom to top-- I just don't need the extra around my already ample hips = and=20 waist.
 
YMMV
 
Lyn Greaves
Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton
COM, COTerpsichore,=20 COSalamander
 

 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 A.Thurman
Sent: Saturday, January 25, = 2003 7:24=20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Question: = Spiral lacing=20 - which direction?

I'm about to finish a pair of stays (late 16th c. - = the=20 pattern from Drea's site with tabs) and I seem to remember reading = here months=20 ago that lacing them from bottom to top makes them easier to put on, = or=20 something. Or was that lacing top to bottom?

If anyone remembers the discussion I'm talking about = let me=20 know which way I should lace these!

Thanks in advance,

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2C4A8.241A7A20-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 20:03:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06595 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:03:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q133tv003524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q130TJ011872; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q12ITJ011727 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:02:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A399F5D10104; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:02:17 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A39812A001E; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:02:16 -0600 Message-ID: <001a01c2c4d6$a8ac3a20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <95.27c1de25.2b3f9eae@aol.com> <00a101c2af6a$7c6b34b0$632faf40@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C2C4AC.BEF45DA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:02:53 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C2C4AC.BEF45DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have had the flu all week... so I had to get out today and go to the movies. I promised Angela when I saw Chicago I would comment. I agree with Angela about the vintage underpinnings when Roxie (Renee) shot her boyfriend. I came home and found them in a 1922 Martha Adams catalog. I have a lot to say but I have to start with the #1 thing that really bothered me about the film. I hope and pray someone can prove me wrong because I am having trouble with the thought that Colleen Atwood would make such a big mistake. Through-out the movie there were numerous close-ups of dancers legs, including Catherine's with fishnet stockings in black and white colors. I came right home and checked three fashion dictionaries. Two said the fishnets were popular in the 1960s-1980s. Not one mention of them being around in the 1920s. I checked my fashion dictionary from 1939. Fishnets were mentioned as a weave for use in veils and hairnets... no mention of stockings. I checked through some of my magazines and catalogs from the 1920s... no fishnet stockings. So does someone have a source that shows that fishnet stockings were used in the 1920s? I like Angela question the dancers' costumes... they looked more like the ones from the dance musicals of the late 30s/40s. I just found the panty cut hard to believe since swimsuit in the late 20s were just getting a little high. The corsets also seemed to be hitting high above the hips. A hint before going to see the film... read the interview with Richard Gere in this month's Reader's Digest BEFORE going to see the film. This helps you get over the shock of seeing him sing. He is from a very talented family of musicians. So singing Broadway is new to him but singing in general is not. The one thing he had to learn to do this film was tap dance. Street clothes... these were done really well. My all time favorite costume was Catherine's courtroom appearance. I have seen this look for the 1920s several times in books and catalogs. All of Renee's street costumes were very period, especially the court costume. Queen Lafitah's costume during her singing number reminded me so much of Hollywood glamour in the 30s. It was beautiful on her and she wore it well. I think this is the prettiest I have ever seen her. Hairstyles: I adored Catherine's hairstyle and it was considered very fashionable in the 20s. I just read this past week about this hairstyle. It was not supposed to be lower than the jawline. Renee's style was so early 1920s...very classic, with the finger waves. When looking for the fishnets in catalogs, I came across wigs of Renee's style. I thought I was going to fall out of my seat laughing when I saw Queen Lafitah had bleached her hair blonde and had the same style as Renee's. A couple of things to note about the film. Catherine Zeta Jones was pregnant during the filming. You can tell the little tummy in some of the dance shots. I was a little disappointed in how little cleavage that Renee really has. I think I would have chosen some different stage costumes for her to play it down. When she was next to Catherine (who has plenty of cleavage), it really takes away from Renee.... there is a reason the Rockettes have to be a certain size. It left me wondering... I thought I had seen Renee at the Oscars with cleavage.... was she taped to death? I really enjoyed the film but like Anglea, I am a sucker for musicals. The jailhouse tango was wonderful! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Cabbage Rose To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago Ok, Albert, I can't resist commenting! I went to see Chicago Friday night (limited release, twenty six miles from my home, grrr.) and I felt it was amazing. While I enjoyed the experience of Moulin Rouge, I found little to amaze me other than some of the costumes, which of course, I never really saw except for flashes anyway. They were fanciful, as was the movie, but back to Chicago... I just loved it. I will say I love movie musicals and want them back. I grew up with the era of musicals, I produce musical theater and it's something I think we miss in our culture. That said, I hate the casting of "stars" instead of singers to play in the few musicals that get produced. I had none of these problems once the film began to roll. I love the twenties (back to obligatory costume content) and the period was captured beautifull. I do believe Ms. Zellwegger is wearing antique 20s underwear in the scene where she shoots Frankie, her lover. The dance costumes were just well, to die for. Colleen Atwood (Sleepy Hollow) took some really smashing underwear details from the period and used them fancifully throughout her dance costuming. I wasnt' sure if the dance costumes were shorter than they would have been (they looked almost like skaters costumes but way skimpier) but I didn't care. The acting was outstanding. Renee Zellwegger was the perfect 20s moll. She was alternately ditsy and hard, but at all times very believable and I wasn't busy thinking that's Renee Zellwegger, she was Roxie Hart. In fact she looked so 20s sleazy at the opening of the film I wasn't positive it was even her. Catherine Zeta-Jones is also very good, but not as believably from the 20s. There is a modern edge to her performance that is there, but not enough to be distracting and they both sing and dance amazingly. This is not a show that calls for great voices and the really difficult numbers were cut. The 70s drek from the stage play isn't there, it's fresh and amazing and Cell Block Tango was just breathtaking. The director/choreographer Rob Marshall did some outstanding work. I went with a friend who is an amazing choreographer and he was impressed and it takes a lot to impress him with dance numbers. Even Richard Gere was completely believable as Billy Flynn. The courtroom tap dance scene may be my favorite courtroom scene of all time. With it's 20s backdrop, the movie focuses on how fleeting fame is, how the Star/Globe/Enquirer style of journalism glorifies some pretty nasty deeds and of course, on how the lawyer uses dirty tricks to get them off in such a way as to make it very topical for todays world. There are so many parallels to current headlines, it just worked on every level. Most movies disappoint me these days, but this one did not. I'd be interested to know if anyone else enjoyed it as much. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C2C4AC.BEF45DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have had the flu all week... so I had to get out today and = go to the=20 movies.
 
I promised Angela when I saw Chicago I would comment.  I agree = with=20 Angela about the vintage underpinnings when Roxie (Renee) shot her=20 boyfriend.  I came home and found them in a 1922 Martha Adams=20 catalog.
 
I have a lot to say but I have to start with the #1 thing that = really=20 bothered me about the film.  I hope and pray someone can prove me = wrong=20 because I am having trouble with the thought that Colleen Atwood = would make=20 such a big mistake.  Through-out the movie there were numerous = close-ups of=20 dancers legs, including Catherine's with fishnet stockings in black and = white=20 colors.  I came right home and checked three fashion = dictionaries. =20 Two said the fishnets were popular in the 1960s-1980s.  Not one = mention of=20 them being around in the 1920s.  I checked my  fashion = dictionary from=20 1939.  Fishnets were mentioned as a weave for use = in veils and=20 hairnets... no mention of stockings.  I checked through some = of my=20 magazines and catalogs from the 1920s... no fishnet = stockings.  So=20 does someone have a source that shows that fishnet stockings were used = in the=20 1920s?
 
I like Angela question the dancers' costumes... they looked more = like the=20 ones from the dance musicals of the late 30s/40s.  I just found the = panty=20 cut hard to believe since swimsuit in the late 20s were just getting a = little=20 high.  The corsets also seemed to be hitting high above the=20 hips. 
 
A hint before going to see the film... read the interview with = Richard Gere=20 in this month's Reader's Digest BEFORE going to see the film.  = This=20 helps you get over the shock of seeing him sing.  He is = from a=20 very talented family of musicians.  So singing Broadway is new = to him=20 but singing in general is not.  The one thing he had to learn to do = this=20 film was tap dance.
 
Street clothes... these were done really well.  My all time = favorite=20 costume was Catherine's courtroom appearance.  I have seen this = look for=20 the 1920s several times in books and catalogs. 
 
All of Renee's street costumes were very period, especially the = court=20 costume.
 
Queen Lafitah's costume during her singing number reminded me so = much of=20 Hollywood glamour in the 30s.  It was beautiful on her and she wore = it=20 well.  I think this is the prettiest I have ever seen her.
 
Hairstyles:
I adored Catherine's hairstyle and it was considered very = fashionable=20 in the 20s.  I just read this past week about this hairstyle. = It was=20 not supposed to be lower than the jawline. 
 
Renee's style was so early 1920s...very classic, with the finger=20 waves.  When looking for the fishnets in catalogs, I came across = wigs of=20 Renee's style.  I thought I was going to fall out of my seat = laughing when=20 I saw Queen Lafitah had bleached her hair blonde and had the same = style as=20 Renee's.
 
A couple of things to note about the film.  Catherine Zeta = Jones was=20 pregnant during the filming.  You can tell the little tummy in some = of the=20 dance shots.  I was a little disappointed in how little = cleavage that=20 Renee really has.  I think I would have chosen some different = stage=20 costumes for her to play it down.  When she was next to Catherine = (who has=20 plenty of cleavage), it really takes away from Renee.... there is a = reason the=20 Rockettes have to be a certain size.  It left me wondering... I = thought I=20 had seen Renee at the Oscars with cleavage.... was she taped to = death?
 
I really enjoyed the film but like Anglea, I am a sucker for=20 musicals.  The jailhouse tango was wonderful! 
      
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Cabbage Rose
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 = 1:45=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] = Chicago

Ok, Albert, I can't resist=20 commenting!
 
I went to see Chicago Friday = night (limited=20 release, twenty six miles from my home, grrr.) and I felt it was=20 amazing.  While I enjoyed the experience of Moulin Rouge, I found = little=20 to amaze me other than some of the costumes, which of course, I never = really=20 saw except for flashes anyway.  They were fanciful, as was the = movie, but=20 back to Chicago...
 
I just loved it.  I will = say I love=20 movie musicals and want them back.  I grew up with the era of = musicals, I=20 produce musical theater and it's something I think we miss in our=20 culture.  That said, I hate the casting of "stars" instead of = singers to=20 play in the few musicals that get produced. 
 
I had none of these problems = once the film=20 began to roll.  I love the twenties (back to obligatory costume = content)=20 and the period was captured beautifull. I do believe Ms. Zellwegger is = wearing=20 antique 20s underwear in the scene where she shoots Frankie, her = lover. =20 The dance costumes were just well, to die for.  Colleen Atwood = (Sleepy=20 Hollow) took some really smashing underwear details from the period = and used=20 them fancifully throughout her dance costuming.  I wasnt' sure if = the=20 dance costumes were shorter than they would have been (they looked = almost like=20 skaters costumes but way skimpier) but I didn't care.  =
 
The acting was = outstanding.  Renee=20 Zellwegger was the perfect 20s moll. She was alternately ditsy and = hard, but=20 at all times very believable and I wasn't busy thinking that's Renee=20 Zellwegger, she was Roxie Hart.  In fact she looked so 20s sleazy = at the=20 opening of the film I wasn't positive it was even her.  Catherine = Zeta-Jones is also very good, but not as believably from the = 20s.  There=20 is a modern edge to her performance that is there, but not enough to = be=20 distracting and they both sing and dance amazingly.  This is not = a show=20 that calls for great voices and the really difficult numbers were = cut. =20 The 70s drek from the stage play isn't there, it's fresh and amazing = and Cell=20 Block Tango was just breathtaking.  The director/choreographer = Rob=20 Marshall did some outstanding work.  I went with a friend who is = an=20 amazing choreographer and he was impressed and it takes a lot to = impress him=20 with dance numbers.
 
Even Richard Gere was completely = believable=20 as Billy Flynn.  The courtroom tap dance scene may be my favorite = courtroom scene of all time.  With it's 20s backdrop, the = movie=20 focuses on how fleeting fame is, how the = Star/Globe/Enquirer style of=20 journalism glorifies some pretty nasty deeds and of course, on how the = lawyer=20 uses dirty tricks to get them off in such a way as to make it very = topical for=20 todays world.  There are so many parallels to current headlines, = it just=20 worked on every level.  Most movies disappoint me these days, but = this=20 one did not.  I'd be interested to know if anyone else enjoyed it = as=20 much.
 
angela
+++++
Angela F. = Lazear
Cabbage Rose=20 Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostume= s.com
Theatrical=20 Costume Design
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C2C4AC.BEF45DA0-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 20:09:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06646 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:09:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q181tv003707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q181TJ013025; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q17CTJ012847 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A4BFF02900FC; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:07:11 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A4BF8EB0144; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:07:11 -0600 Message-ID: <003601c2c4d7$58693da0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <95.27c1de25.2b3f9eae@aol.com> <00a101c2af6a$7c6b34b0$632faf40@angelap3a8d978> <001a01c2c4d6$a8ac3a20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01C2C4AD.6F3F4940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:07:49 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C2C4AD.6F3F4940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One last thing... for photos from the film go to http://us.imdb.com/Gallery?0299658&source=ss Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C2C4AD.6F3F4940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One last thing... for photos from the film go to
http://us.imd= b.com/Gallery?0299658&source=3Dss
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
 
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C2C4AD.6F3F4940-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 20:09:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06650 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:09:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1A1tv003777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1A0TJ013516; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q19vTJ013492 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:09:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from p490-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.236] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18cbJ4-0003yA-00; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:09:55 +1300 Message-ID: <004101c2c4d7$a57b01f0$ecc1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <95.27c1de25.2b3f9eae@aol.com> <00a101c2af6a$7c6b34b0$632faf40@angelap3a8d978> <001a01c2c4d6$a8ac3a20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2C544.9BC62FA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:09:58 +1300 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2C544.9BC62FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> Is this during the flashy dance sequences? As I understand it there are = a lot of fantasy sequences and if they only apear in those scenes then = that'll be why they are used. For the revival stage production of the late 90s (stilla round I think) = they used a variety of very modern cut black costuming. It's probably a = reference to the modern productions as well. michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2C544.9BC62FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<I have a lot to say but I have to start with the = #1 thing=20 that really bothered me about the film.  I hope and pray someone = can prove=20 me wrong because I am having trouble with the thought that Colleen = Atwood=20 would make such a big mistake.  Through-out the movie there were = numerous=20 close-ups of dancers legs, including Catherine's with fishnet stockings = in black=20 and white colors.  I came right home and checked three fashion=20 dictionaries. >>
 
Is this during the flashy = dance sequences?=20 As I understand it there are a lot of fantasy sequences and if they only = apear=20 in those scenes then that'll be why they are used.
 
For the revival stage = production of the=20 late 90s (stilla round I think) they used a variety of very modern cut = black=20 costuming. It's probably a reference to the modern productions as=20 well.
 
michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/cost= ume
 
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2C544.9BC62FA0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 20:18:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06704 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:18:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1G3tv004077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1G2TJ015789; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1FQTJ015564 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:15:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A6ADCE2D004C; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:15:25 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A6AE9AC013C; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:15:26 -0600 Message-ID: <004201c2c4d8$7ee349c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <95.27c1de25.2b3f9eae@aol.com> <00a101c2af6a$7c6b34b0$632faf40@angelap3a8d978> <001a01c2c4d6$a8ac3a20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> <004101c2c4d7$a57b01f0$ecc1adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2C4AE.95B95560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:16:03 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2C4AE.95B95560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michaela, They were used during almost all the dance scenes, and I recall Catherine in street clothes wearing them. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: michaela To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago <> Is this during the flashy dance sequences? As I understand it there are a lot of fantasy sequences and if they only apear in those scenes then that'll be why they are used. For the revival stage production of the late 90s (stilla round I think) they used a variety of very modern cut black costuming. It's probably a reference to the modern productions as well. michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2C4AE.95B95560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Michaela,
 
They were used during almost all the dance scenes, and I recall = Catherine=20 in street clothes wearing them.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 michaela=20
Sent: Saturday, January 25, = 2003 8:09=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] = Chicago

<<I have a lot to say but I have to start with = the #1 thing=20 that really bothered me about the film.  I hope and pray someone = can=20 prove me wrong because I am having trouble with the thought that = Colleen=20 Atwood would make such a big mistake.  Through-out the movie = there were=20 numerous close-ups of dancers legs, including Catherine's with fishnet = stockings in black and white colors.  I came right home and = checked three=20 fashion dictionaries. >>
 
Is this during the flashy = dance=20 sequences? As I understand it there are a lot of fantasy sequences and = if they=20 only apear in those scenes then that'll be why they are = used.
 
For the revival stage = production of the=20 late 90s (stilla round I think) they used a variety of very modern cut = black=20 costuming. It's probably a reference to the modern productions as=20 well.
 
michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/cost= ume
 
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2C4AE.95B95560-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 20:18:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06710 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:18:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1J2tv004252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1J1TJ016566; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1IQTJ016433 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:18:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A761655D0102; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:18:25 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A7619B1013C; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:18:25 -0600 Message-ID: <004f01c2c4d8$e9d92f60$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <20030124083857.15817.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Golden Globe Fashion Bloopers X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:19:02 -0500 Status: RO Nicole.... I loved the ballet shoes too!!! I thought the bodice of the costume needed to fit her better. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 20:26:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06775 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:26:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1Q3tv004566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:26:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1Q1TJ019860; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1P1TJ017908 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp227.directcon.net [206.170.184.227]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0Q1Ongr024656; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:24:50 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030125172837.00ddbc60@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago In-Reply-To: <001a01c2c4d6$a8ac3a20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> References: <95.27c1de25.2b3f9eae@aol.com> <00a101c2af6a$7c6b34b0$632faf40@angelap3a8d978> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:28:37 -0800 Status: RO So does someone have a source >that shows that fishnet stockings were used in the 1920s? I don't know about the 20's, but I know that fishnet tights were worn by dancers long before the 60's, when a number of dancer's styles, like colored tights, became fashionable. I've seen them in dance photographs from the 40's at least. Dancer's fishnets were, and still are, made of elastic. One brand name was Lastex. The elastic tights give great support and make the legs look fantastic, but they are hell on your toes! Before nylon ballet tights became avalable, ballet dancers wore expensive silk tights that stretched and bagged, so some ballet dancers wore the elastic tights over their pink silks tights to control the sagging. Most show dancers still wear fishnets. They come in black and flesh color these days, and you can get them with or without back seams, and even with rhinestones! When I worked on a Vegas type revue show, we cut the waist bands off them, trimmed them down to match the top line of the G-string costumes, and threaded thin elastic through the tops. They only came in one shade of "flesh", so we dyed them darker for the Black girls. When they got holes in them, we mended them by doing a tiny crochet stitch with a threaded needle to make new bars in the mesh. What a chore. Finally our wardrobe mistress had a talk with the dance captain, who explained to the girls that this was something a prefessional dancer should do herself, and we taught the girls how to take care of their own tights. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 20:35:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06876 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:35:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1a1tv004932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1a0TJ023622; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1ZvTJ023585 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.14b.1ad8ca8c (4116) for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:35:48 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <14b.1ad8ca8c.2b649574@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14b.1ad8ca8c.2b649574_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:35:48 EST Status: RO --part1_14b.1ad8ca8c.2b649574_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I take it these are expensive tights, then? Since you went to all of the trouble of those little crochet stitches to repair them, that is. Thank goodness I'm not a dancer! Christine In a message dated 1/25/03 8:26:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes: > When I worked on a Vegas type revue show, we cut the waist bands off them, > trimmed them down to match the top line of the G-string costumes, and > threaded thin elastic through the tops. They only came in one shade of > "flesh", so we dyed them darker for the Black girls. When they got holes > in them, we mended them by doing a tiny crochet stitch with a threaded > needle to make new bars in the mesh. What a chore. Finally our wardrobe > mistress had a talk with the dance captain, who explained to the girls that > this was something a prefessional dancer should do herself, and we taught > the girls how to take care of their own tights. > > --part1_14b.1ad8ca8c.2b649574_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I take it these are expensive tights, then?  Since you went to all of the trouble of those little crochet stitches to repair them, that is.  Thank goodness I'm not a dancer!

Christine

In a message dated 1/25/03 8:26:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes:

When I worked on a Vegas type revue show, we cut the waist bands off them,
trimmed them down to match the top line of the G-string costumes, and
threaded thin elastic through the tops. They only came in one shade of
"flesh", so we dyed them darker for the Black girls.  When they got holes
in them, we mended them by doing a tiny crochet stitch with a threaded
needle to make new bars in the mesh. What a chore. Finally our wardrobe
mistress had a talk with the dance captain, who explained to the girls that
this was something a prefessional dancer should do herself, and we taught
the girls how to take care of their own tights.



--part1_14b.1ad8ca8c.2b649574_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 20:38:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06911 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:38:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1d1tv005165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1d0TJ024512; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0Q1ciTJ024463 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-121-121-109.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.121.121.109 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2003 01:38:43 -0000 Message-ID: <004a01c2c4db$ad11ebf0$6d797943@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <95.27c1de25.2b3f9eae@aol.com> <00a101c2af6a$7c6b34b0$632faf40@angelap3a8d978> <3.0.6.32.20030125172837.00ddbc60@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:38:49 -0800 Status: RO I costumed Cabaret two years ago, and I purchased stockings from the late twenties for the show, which were very close to a fishnet weave, but flesh colored, so they definately existed then in some form, although they are not exactly what you'd see today. I don't have my research handy, but there were a good variety of woven stockings in burlesque in the twenties. I also utilized several of the vintage peach colored standard underwear/slips that Ms. Zellwegger wore in the scene where she bumps off her lover. I got a kick out of that. I thought the costumes for that movie were brilliant. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "If to do were as easy as to know what were good to do, chapels had been churches, and poor men's cottages princes' palaces." The Merchant of Venice, I, ii - William Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margo Anderson" To: ; Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago > So does someone have a source > >that shows that fishnet stockings were used in the 1920s? > > I don't know about the 20's, but I know that fishnet tights were worn by > dancers long before the 60's, when a number of dancer's styles, like > colored tights, became fashionable. I've seen them in dance photographs > from the 40's at least. Dancer's fishnets were, and still are, made of > elastic. One brand name was Lastex. The elastic tights give great support > and make the legs look fantastic, but they are hell on your toes! > > Before nylon ballet tights became avalable, ballet dancers wore expensive > silk tights that stretched and bagged, so some ballet dancers wore the > elastic tights over their pink silks tights to control the sagging. > > Most show dancers still wear fishnets. They come in black and flesh color > these days, and you can get them with or without back seams, and even with > rhinestones! > > When I worked on a Vegas type revue show, we cut the waist bands off them, > trimmed them down to match the top line of the G-string costumes, and > threaded thin elastic through the tops. They only came in one shade of > "flesh", so we dyed them darker for the Black girls. When they got holes > in them, we mended them by doing a tiny crochet stitch with a threaded > needle to make new bars in the mesh. What a chore. Finally our wardrobe > mistress had a talk with the dance captain, who explained to the girls that > this was something a prefessional dancer should do herself, and we taught > the girls how to take care of their own tights. > > Margo > > > "One Tough Costumer" > > > See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at > margospatterns.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 20:50:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06984 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:50:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1f2tv005233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1f1TJ025835; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q1elTJ024958 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:40:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AC9E71750102; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:40:46 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AC9F1520020; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:40:47 -0600 Message-ID: <005b01c2c4dc$0687af80$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <95.27c1de25.2b3f9eae@aol.com> <00a101c2af6a$7c6b34b0$632faf40@angelap3a8d978> <3.0.6.32.20030125172837.00ddbc60@pop.directcon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:41:19 -0500 Status: RO Background on the story of Chicago can be found at: http://movie-reviews.colossus.net/movies/c/chicago.html Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 21:07:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07115 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:07:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q271tv006237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q270TJ005481; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q26ITJ005319 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:06:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net ([10.116.0.121]) by scanmail1.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:35:14 -0700 Received: from scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121] by scanmail1.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A11F348B0064; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:35:14 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:35:14 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lysistrata Project/Greek Costumes Message-ID: <000001c2c4c2$61191b10$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030125141111.00a15ec0@mail.attbi.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:37:42 -0600 Status: RO Greeks didn't wear togas, the Romans did. And I think you need masks for Greek drama. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of MaryAnn Jones Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 4:25 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Lysistrata Project/Greek Costumes Hi - I hope that this post doesn't offend anyone. It is much more political in nature than most are. If it does, please ignore the political content and just address the costume content and accept my apologies. I want to have the co-housing community that I live in participate in the Lysistrata Project. This (and here comes the political content) is a project to have readings of Lysistrata on March 3rd all over the world to protest the possibility of war. I would like to consider having the readers in costume. I think that that would be fun, assuming that I can convince anybody to wear costumes. However, I don't have any idea what the ancient Greek women would have been wearing. I think that for the men it would be knee length tunics and a toga, but what would the women have worn? Did they wear togas? Am I right about the men? I appreciate any information anyone can give me. If anyone is in the Sacramento area and would like to attend, let me know, probably off the list at mabse@attbi.com. thanks, maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 21:13:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07173 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:13:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q2E1tv006509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q2E0TJ007138; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q2D7TJ006760 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:13:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.47.297a4f8e (4116) for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:12:56 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <47.297a4f8e.2b649e28@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lysistrata Project/Greek Costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_47.297a4f8e.2b649e28_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:12:56 EST Status: RO --part1_47.297a4f8e.2b649e28_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the use of masks depends on the type of drama, or the play itself. Many Greek plays had the chorus wearing masks, but not the main actors. Something like the Agamemnon probably wouldn't have had masks. Masks have potential, though. You could have one of the men wear, say, a "Bush" mask, or a "Powell" mask. Heck, you could have one of them carry around shrubbery... Christine In a message dated 1/25/03 9:07:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, kbaird@cableone.net writes: > Greeks didn't wear togas, the Romans did. > > And I think you need masks for Greek drama. > --part1_47.297a4f8e.2b649e28_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the use of masks depends on the type of drama, or the play itself.  Many Greek plays had the chorus wearing masks, but not the main actors.  Something like the Agamemnon probably wouldn't have had masks.  Masks have potential, though.  You could have one of the men wear, say, a "Bush" mask, or a "Powell" mask.  Heck, you could have one of them carry around shrubbery...

Christine

In a message dated 1/25/03 9:07:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, kbaird@cableone.net writes:

Greeks didn't wear togas, the Romans did.

And I think you need masks for Greek drama.


 --part1_47.297a4f8e.2b649e28_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 21:52:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07469 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:52:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q2q8tv008042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:52:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q2q0TJ015378; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q2pRTJ015266 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:51:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-65.59.56.102.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([65.59.56.102] helo=diane) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18cctK-0006xL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:51:26 -0800 Message-ID: <001001c2c3ec$bda376e0$66383b41@diane> From: "Diane M. Mathews" To: References: <1b8.cf68100.2b638767@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C2C3BA.5DD26C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:07:52 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C2C3BA.5DD26C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a little side note about Margo's patterns. It is not just " a " = pattern. It entails EVERYTHING from the chemise, farthingale, bum = roll, to the outer garments in multiple sizes and multiple countries. = She includes all of the accessories like hats, purses, etc. What you = get in Margo's patterns would cost you at least twice as much " if " = you could find the patterns with someone else. AND--- on top of = everything else----they are historically correct with great instructions = that are easy to follow !! NO--I do not get any kind of commission or = money for promoting Margo's patterns but---I did buy her patterns and = have been using them for my Elizabethan's and I am EXTREMELY happy with = them !! If you can come up with the money for Margo's pattern, I do not = believe you will be disappointed. I will go back into lurk mode now. Diane ----- Original Message -----=20 From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? Hi all! Could someone perhaps point me in the direction of a decent = Elizabethan (specifically royal) pattern for women? I've found Margo = Anderson's patterns, and while they're lovely and very authentic (so it = seems, anyhow, from the glowing reviews), spending $75 on patterns for a = single dress is not something I want to do until I've exhausted all = other options. Her patterns, while they look wonderful to work with, = are just a little steep for a starving college student. Which I will = be, in a short time! Please note that "options" does not include = drafting my own patterns- I'm not at that level yet! Christine ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C2C3BA.5DD26C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just a little side note about Margo's=20 patterns.   It is not just  " a "  = pattern.   It=20 entails EVERYTHING from the chemise, farthingale, bum roll, to the outer = garments in multiple sizes and multiple countries.  She includes = all of the=20 accessories like hats, purses,  etc.   What you get in = Margo's=20 patterns would cost you at least twice as much  " if " you could = find the=20 patterns with someone else.  AND--- on top of everything = else----they are=20 historically correct with great instructions that are easy to = follow=20 !!   NO--I do not get any kind of commission or money for = promoting=20 Margo's patterns but---I did buy her patterns and have been using them = for my=20 Elizabethan's and I am EXTREMELY happy with them !!  If you can = come up=20 with the money for Margo's pattern, I do not believe you will be=20 disappointed.   I will go back into lurk mode = now.
 
Diane
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 IceGirlNIN@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 25, = 2003 12:23=20 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan=20 Patterns?

Hi all!

Could someone perhaps point me in = the=20 direction of a decent Elizabethan (specifically royal) pattern for=20 women?  I've found Margo Anderson's patterns, and while they're = lovely=20 and very authentic (so it seems, anyhow, from the glowing reviews), = spending=20 $75 on patterns for a single dress is not something I want to do until = I've=20 exhausted all other options.  Her patterns, while they look = wonderful to=20 work with, are just a little steep for a starving college = student.  Which=20 I will be, in a short time!  Please note that "options" does not = include=20 drafting my own patterns- I'm not at that level=20 yet!


Christine ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C2C3BA.5DD26C80-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 22:03:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07602 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:03:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q338tv008389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q330TJ018239; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q32LTJ018041 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:02:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.19a.f9789d4 (4116) for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:02:09 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <19a.f9789d4.2b64a9b1@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_19a.f9789d4.2b64a9b1_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:02:09 EST Status: RO --part1_19a.f9789d4.2b64a9b1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apparently, I should buy Madame Margo's patterns. Now, question: How much would someone pay me, to make a full Elizabethan ensemble for them? I need to "justify" the expenditure. As for instructions: do I get nice "insert tab A into slot B" instructions with illustrations? I'm an idiot sometimes, so I need visuals. Mostly because I occasionally panic, and then the dress ends up being able to fit me, my mom, my dad, and my cat, all at once. Christine --part1_19a.f9789d4.2b64a9b1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apparently, I should buy Madame Margo's patterns.  <g>  Now, question: How much would someone pay me, to make a full Elizabethan ensemble for them?  I need to "justify" the expenditure.  As for instructions: do I get nice "insert tab A into slot B" instructions with illustrations?  I'm an idiot sometimes, so I need visuals.  Mostly because I occasionally panic, and then the dress ends up being able to fit me, my mom, my dad, and my cat, all at once. 

Christine --part1_19a.f9789d4.2b64a9b1_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 22:10:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07673 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:10:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q3A8tv008679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:10:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q3A1TJ019768; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (socrates.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q39dTJ019651 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:09:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from socrates.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h0Q39dU02775 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:09:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.196.209] (tnt-1-17.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.196.209]) by socrates.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h0Q39bD02767 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:09:37 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030125141111.00a15ec0@mail.attbi.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030125141111.00a15ec0@mail.attbi.com> X-mailer: Eudora Pro 5.1r Macintosh To: h-costume@indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lysistrata Project/Greek Costumes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:09:14 -0800 Status: RO At 2:24 PM -0800 1/25/03, MaryAnn Jones wrote: >I would like to consider having the readers in costume. I think >that that would be fun, assuming that I can convince anybody to wear >costumes. However, I don't have any idea what the ancient Greek >women would have been wearing. I think that for the men it would be >knee length tunics and a toga, but what would the women have worn? >Did they wear togas? Am I right about the men? The basic structural concept behind classical Greek costume is incredibly simple, but a lot of stylistic variation comes from what you do with it. And this is going to be rather oversimplified. For men, it's probably safest to stick to the styles starting with a short-sleeved, knee-length "t-tunic". Younger men might wear a relatively short rectangular cloak pinned around this; older men might wear a longer draped garment that you'd need to see diagrams to follow. (It's different in structure from toga, but the general overall concept is similar.) For women, the basic garment is a loose tube of fabric, somewhat longer than from the shoulders to the ground (depending on the style). This is pinned on the shoulders (or in some styles, with a wider tube, pinned in several places along the arms). The various main styles differ in things like whether the excess length is dealt with by folding down some portion of the top and fastening the shoulders through the folded edge, or by belting it to floor-length and letting the excess drape loosely at the waist (which may then have a second belt over the drape). Women may also wear a long, rectangular wrap in various ways. Another poster suggested constructing the women's dress in two parts, as a separate skirt and tunic, but I don't believe such an interpretation has a historic basis, although it might work theatrically. Books on historic theater costuming will often give step-by-step diagrams for draping Greek clothing (and given the simplicity of the cut, they're less likely to steer you wrong than for many other eras). Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 22:24:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07812 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:24:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q3N8tv009156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:23:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q3N1TJ022844; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q3MCTJ022666 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003012603220705100jslnge>; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 03:22:07 +0000 Message-ID: <002901c2c4ea$b6e83da0$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <1b8.cf68100.2b638767@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:25:58 -0600 Status: RO There is a lady in our barony that wanted the same thing. She was determined to use the simplicity pattern for her dress. With the help of 2 other ladies they created the dress she wanted. Each of them brought in an expertise that she needed to make the entire dress from top to bottom. When she showed up at 12th night in that dress it was the hit of the night! My point is, yes, you can make what you need using any pattern, cheap or expensive, but if you want to take it slow at first it is ok. Let your friends help you. Later on you will see the merits for getting Margo's patterns. I totally understand having to work up to it. I have her patterns, lucky to have gotten in at the ground level and gotten for a much lower price. But time has not allowed me to break them out yet. I feel very lucky to have them! :) On the flip side, I have all the other Elizabethan patterns by the big commercial makers. They are the best for getting your feet wet and creating something fast and dirty if you have no time at all. But your here on this list and asking for our help. Let us help you with your end choice, ask lots of questions, go to the archives and search for specific questions cause believe me, we have heard almost all of them. :) Do not be shy here, ask, ask, ask!!! Also, I believe there is a yahoo list for Elizabethan as well that you may be able to search the archive of without having to subscribe. Great info!! :) Good luck! Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? > Hi all! > > Could someone perhaps point me in the direction of a decent Elizabethan > (specifically royal) pattern for women? I've found Margo Anderson's > patterns, and while they're lovely and very authentic (so it seems, anyhow, > from the glowing reviews), spending $75 on patterns for a single dress is not > something I want to do until I've exhausted all other options. Her patterns, > while they look wonderful to work with, are just a little steep for a > starving college student. Which I will be, in a short time! Please note > that "options" does not include drafting my own patterns- I'm not at that > level yet! > > > Christine > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Jan 25 23:30:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08138 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 23:30:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q4T8tv011458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q4T1TJ007629; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0Q4SGTJ007455 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:28:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A3DFDAD400F8; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:28:15 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A3E02270150; Sat, 25 Jan 2003 22:28:16 -0600 Message-ID: <00dc01c2c4f3$5caf8920$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] What he's up 2 now! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 23:28:22 -0500 Status: RO Well... at least this time he told me in advance this time. My 17 y.o. son Patrick, the theater techie, has taken up something new. His Algebra teacher has started a knitting club at the high school. Patrick is the only guy with 14 girls in the club. No, he didn't go to the club for the girls. He sincerely wants to learn to knit. His theater production teacher came back to school after Christmas with a knitted cap that his mother made as a present. All the students went crazy about the cap. So the Algebra teacher said she would start a knitting club and teach the students how to knit it... BUT they had to learn all the stitches for knitting to be in the club. So these 15 kids are staying after school to learn to knit. Patrick is teaching me what he has learned. I always wanted to learn to knit. It looks so far, a lot easier than cotton thread crochet. He seems to love knitting... he walks around the house with his yarn and needles. At least this time Patrick told me he was learning something... since I found out at Christmas that he had been sewing on machine for two years at school. BTW... return to an old topic.... one of my 11 y.o. daughter's girl friends keeps asking to come over to the house to watch me quilt. She said her mother won't teach her to sew. She sits on the sidelines and puts the pins back in the cushion for me as I am quilting. This makes my daughter's blood boil... she is not very patient at sewing and wants her friend to play with her. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 26 08:53:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10965 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:53:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QDs6tv025996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QDs1Fn024512; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QDrLFn024307 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:53:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18cnDs-0001mL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 05:53:21 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] What he's up 2 now! Message-ID: <000601c2c542$5193cf70$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <00dc01c2c4f3$5caf8920$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:53:34 -0700 Status: RO My dad taught me how to sew and knit. (He was the Chair of a Theater Dept). He could look at a garment and reconstruct it. He played piano beautifully by ear and taught tap dancing lessons too!! Your son has an interesting life ahead of him!! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 26 13:50:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16855 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QIo5tv007954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:50:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QIo0Fn000535; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QIniFn000471 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:49:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-uive9o6.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.39.6] helo=[165.247.47.38]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18crqh-0004Jv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:49:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michiko@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030126003001.4300.9626.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030126003001.4300.9626.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: michiko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Vienna Opera Ball - ballgown styles? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:52:56 -0500 Status: RO Hi! My name's Michiko and I'm new to the list - thanks for letting me be here! :) Just found out I've got a rare opportunity to attend the Opera Ball in Vienna on Feb 27th, and I'm trying to learn as much as possible, as quickly as possible, about the era (I believe their website lists mid-late 1800s as the time period) in order to design and make something for it. I've got a stack of library books here on costume from that period, but am noticing that things are listed as Victorian or Edwardian etc....and is that (this is perhaps a really dumb question :) only for English styles around that time? Is there a good book or film or website that you might want to recommend, specifically showing Vienna waltz ballgowns from that era? I know 'mid-late 1800s' is quite a range, and am trying to hone in better on a look as well...but am so far a bit overwhelmed (in a good way of course - such great stuff to look at! But...time is ticking away... :) I'm tempted to think Amadeus but their site said something along the lines of 'not so much boob' :) and I'm not sure if the looks was extravagant (shiny satins?) or more demure (whether I could put a twist on it by doing up a fancy dress style and keeping it muslin? Or is that a tired idea? :) I have some jpgs for reference but am not sure whether they're historically accurate (have a sense they're more wedding gowns inspired by the period than remaining accurate to it) and would be happy to attach those (they're small files) if anyone'd like to have a look and a comment, but I didn't want to spam you with them, thanks! I'm located in Manhattan and am new to designing/making costumes (I'm a professional illustrator/character designer), I hope these aren't super-naive questions. I'd love any tips or leads you might care to offer, and thanks so much for taking the time to read this. Hope you're all having a great weekend! Best regards, Michiko -- ---------------------------------------- Michiko Stehrenberger Illustration & Character Design BimBionic Design Lab | New York http://www.michiko.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 26 14:29:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17104 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:29:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QJU4tv009847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QJU2Fn010856; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from indiego.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QJT0Fn010578 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.124.3.166] (p06.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.166]) by indiego.ntw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08189 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:22:32 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vienna Opera Ball - ballgown styles? From: sylvia To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:59:12 -0700 Status: RO on 1/26/03 11:52 AM, michiko at michiko@michiko.com wrote: > Hi! > > My name's Michiko and I'm new to the list - thanks for letting me be here! :) > > Just found out I've got a rare opportunity to attend the Opera Ball > in Vienna on Feb 27th, and I'm trying to learn as much as possible, > as quickly as possible, about the era (I believe their website lists > mid-late 1800s as the time period) in order to design and make > something for it. This is the era of the Hapsbergs. I would do a search on the internet and in libraries for info from this period. And I'm sure someone on this list is more knowledgeable than I am that will provide you with more help. > > > I'm tempted to think Amadeus Amadeus is 1700s, not 1800s. Sylvia Rognstad -- Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 26 16:19:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17856 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 16:19:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QLK2tv014697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0QLK1Dh007120; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0QLJ9Dh006919 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:19:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWvbk4DKiMLcr0uCvLlpiO3j7kF3N0WykRA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPGUR4U9; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:18:51 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? Message-ID: <20030126.161804.-497543.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-8 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 16:18:03 -0500 Status: RO I would say top to bottom. My corset is top to bottom in the back and I don't have anyone to help me get into it. I leave it laced loose, step into it and then pull it tight. I don't think I could do it from the top. From the bottom it isn't all that easy, but it does get done and I wrap the ribbons around my waist and tie them in the front. Lacing in the front would be easier, but I don't think it would look right. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 26 19:12:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18959 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:12:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R0CAtv023307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:12:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R0C1Dh023554; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R0BDDh023393 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:11:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.102] (pm4-102.eos.net [205.133.149.102]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02355 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:11:10 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030126030300.18238.8091.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: chicago, tights Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:08:01 -0500 Status: RO I haven't seen "Chicago" yet -- I saw a stage production some years ago and thought it was bizarre, but after all the buzz I think I'll see the movie. But on the subject of authenticity, I don't recall the women singing in a 1920s style in either the production I saw or any of the "revue" type things I have ever seen, including the recent Kennedy Center Honors on television, which showed someone singing "All that Jazz." Women in the 1920s had a distinctive singing style and that sure isn't it! On the subject of tights, I remember reading in Margot Fonteyne's autobiography that when dancers wore silk tights, they had to fix all the runs in them. They were so expensive that there was no throwing them away until they had been mended so many times that they looked awful! She described doing it, and I think she talked about using little crochet hooks to pullthe lost stitches up the "ladders," but I don't remember exactly. Anyone interested could look it up! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 26 19:16:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19005 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:16:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R0H1tv023507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R0H0Dh024695; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R0G5Dh024518 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:16:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.102] (pm4-102.eos.net [205.133.149.102]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03408 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:16:03 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030126190009.3054.43694.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Vienna ball gown Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:12:55 -0500 Status: RO Michiko: "Amadeus" is too early for you. I know there's a good visual history book of dancing clothes, I'll get the title for you tomorrow. But in the meantime, look up books about the composers of the time (R. Strauss and Franz Lehar are best to start with). They should show pictures of the balls, and that will show you the look you're going for. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 26 22:35:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20123 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:35:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R3Z5tv002760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R3Z1Dh012730; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:35:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R3YiDh012653 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:34:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from p251-nas4.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.208.251] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18d02i-0008El-00; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:34:40 +1300 Message-ID: <003d01c2c5b5$0a04bbb0$fbd0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030126.161804.-497543.1.catpurson@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:34:45 +1300 Status: RO > I would say top to bottom. My corset is top to bottom in the > back and I don't have anyone to help me get into it. I leave it laced > loose, step into it and then pull it tight. I don't think I could do it > from the top. I've heard of people lying on a bed and pulling the lacing up that way;) Apparently it helps to lace as gravity helps pull things in the direction you want it too, and also in getting htings to lift. I lace bottom to top for the uplift thing, but that's from the front wheere you can pull and fit as you go. I'm thinking lacing from top to bottom in back is better as you will not be able to do that lace a few rings/eyelets, tighten, lace a few more etc. No I'm not talking about getting the ToaP look;) Just a better shape;) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Jan 26 23:56:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20623 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 23:56:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R4u2tv006465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jan 2003 21:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R4u1Dh003403; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 21:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe56.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.191]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R4tjDh003261 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 21:55:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:55:39 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Zoot Suit pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2003 04:55:39.0783 (UTC) FILETIME=[56A4D170:01C2C5C0] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 23:55:50 -0500 Status: RO I think the concern about that pattern is not so much the look as the instructions. Something about the zipper instructions being wrong, and the rest being unclear, so if you've never sewn a pair of pants before, you might need a good book to complement the pattern instructions. But I do think the look is great! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzanne" > Vogue has a fairly decent one that I've heard good things about from the > Zoot Suit crowd. > > Suzanne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 01:14:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21133 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 01:14:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R6F3tv009295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Jan 2003 23:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R6F1rw022640; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 23:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R6EUrw022495 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2003 23:14:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0R6hfI3017811 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 01:43:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0R6hf02017809 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 01:43:41 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC 21 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030123235654.0195c4b0@radiks.net> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030123235654.0195c4b0@radiks.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301270143.40753.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0R6EUrw022495 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 01:43:40 -0500 Status: RO On Friday 24 January 2003 01:03 am, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > Robin, > For the wig, at least, you can try Lacey Costume Wigs in New York > City. They have a huge selection of styles, REALLY cheap. I don't think > they have a web site, and I don't have my catalog handy (anyone else, > maybe?) but you should be able to get their phone number from directory > assistance, if nothing else. We haven't ordered from them in a year or so, > but they always remember our (infrequent) orders. Very nice people. When > last we ordered, I think their most expensive wig (other than the real > human hair ones) was about $50, and that was for the super-elaborate Marie > Antionette with tons of rolls and curls. Most are $10 or $15 or less. > I agree with Pierre and Sandy about the quality of their service though they tend to be kind of abrupt on the phone (real New Yorkers). Also, if they have the design you want in stock, they ship promptly and you receive it quickly--I don't think I've ever waited more than three days for an item I ordered from them (of course, I live in Pennsylvania). So far as I can tell they still don't have a Web stie you can order through, but this site gives their phone number so you can ask for a catalog. http://www.toydirectory.com/LaceyCostumeWig/\ Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 02:31:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06759 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 02:31:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R7W6tv011837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 00:32:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0R7W0rw009937; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 00:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (imap.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0R7V7rw009771 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 00:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23691 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jan 2003 07:31:01 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FFA6.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.228.255.166) by mail.gmx.net (mp022-rz3) with SMTP; 27 Jan 2003 07:31:01 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0R7V7rw009771 Subject: [h-cost] Wealth of med/ren links Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:31:01 +0100 Status: RO Oh boy, don't know if this link is common knowledge http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/medren.html I just found it and don't even have time at the moment to look through it to all but there are links listed that have costuming content. It is a page with links to online manuscripts. One is for Les très riches heures du duc de Berry with nice pics And then there's the Cely Papers: http://www.r3.org/bookcase/cely/index.html The letters of a wool merchant family 1475-1488 Oh this page - oh yummy! Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 06:52:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02084 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 06:52:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RBr4tv019065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 04:53:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RBr1rw026278; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 04:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0RBqqrw026230 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 04:52:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030127115246.66744.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:52:46 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Greek female clothing: found URL Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:52:46 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO I don't know if anyone pointed you to the following web site for the Lysistrata project, but I just came across this: http://www.greyhawkes.com/blacksword/Spartan%20Combat%20Arts%202001/1-Pages/HowTo/Clothing/Chiton.htm Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 11:23:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03431 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:23:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RGN9tv002266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RGN0RL016536; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RGMfRL016330 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:22:41 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> Received: from rwcrwbc55 (rwcrwbc55.attbi.com[204.127.198.44]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <20030127162235052008vpape>; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:22:35 +0000 Received: from [205.225.207.97] by rwcrwbc55; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:22:35 +0000 From: mabse@attbi.com To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 5 2002) X-Authenticated-Sender: bWFic2VAYXR0YmkuY29t Subject: [h-cost] slashing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:22:35 +0000 Status: RO Thanks all for your help on my question about Greek costumes. I have a better idea of what needs to be done now. On to another period though. I want to do some slashing for my elizabethan costume. I got some black silk and some copper silk and I want to slash the black and have the copper show through. It will go on one of those brocades you can get on e-bay. It is a copper and black acetate brocade with a sort of celtic cross pattern. I would like to see some examples of what it looks like though. I have my own ideas of how to do it, but I am not sure if they are correct. If anyone has any pictures to which they can point me I would appreciate it. thanks, maryann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 12:02:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03694 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:02:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RGw2tv006454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RGw1RL006478; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RGv6RL005898 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.171.19c9ab98 (4238) for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:56:57 -0500 (EST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: <171.19c9ab98.2b66bed8@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_171.19c9ab98.2b66bed8_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan Patterns? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:56:56 EST Status: RO --part1_171.19c9ab98.2b66bed8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Christine, You dont say what you're making the dress for, but if price is a factor and strict authenticity is not, I'd go for the simplicity pattern. At Joanns or Hancock you can get simplicity patterns for 1/2 off and even 1.99 or 99 cents if there is a sale on. Also given the help available online for making that pattern more authentic (Bella had all the links), you can make it get by the authenticity folks in a pinch. I should say I own margo's patttern and love it, I think it's lovely and very well sized -- I needed no alterations. But it's also not for the beginner, and maybe a bit more than you want to spend if you only plan on ever doing one eliz. costume ever... Just my 2 cents, Cheers, Loren --part1_171.19c9ab98.2b66bed8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Christine,

You dont say what you're making the dress for, but if price is a factor and strict authenticity is not, I'd go for the simplicity pattern.  At Joanns or Hancock you can get simplicity patterns for 1/2 off and even 1.99 or 99 cents if there is a sale on.

Also given the help available online for making that pattern more authentic (Bella had all the links), you can make it get by the authenticity folks in a pinch.

I should say I own margo's patttern and love it, I think it's lovely and very well sized -- I needed no alterations.  But it's also not for the beginner, and maybe a bit more than you want to spend if you only plan on ever doing one eliz. costume ever...

Just my 2 cents,  Cheers,

Loren --part1_171.19c9ab98.2b66bed8_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 13:32:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04438 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:32:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RIW3tv015302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RIW0RL001369; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe21.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RIVXRL001016 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:31:28 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <3E2CBC2C.4FC30D8A@ttlc.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fabric identification... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2003 18:31:28.0489 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E589D90:01C2C632] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:30:52 -0500 Status: RO I just want to thank everyone for your advice on fabric identification. And to let you know the results :-) The microscope was not clear enough - I mean that I don't have enough experience to really tell them apart. I looked at some rayon fibers I grabbed during my last trip to the fabric store, and I looked at some cotton I had here, and I looked at some linen I had, and I still couldn't decide what the mystery fabric was! I decided that, since it was all natural fibers anyway and it was really cheap, I would go and buy some anyway. The lady at the store thought it was a cotton-linen blend, but, if it is, there's more linen in it than cotton (I manipulated enough linen to usually be able to recognize it just by touching it). It shed like crazy in the drier after I washed it, just like real linen does. And I had to crank the iron almost to the highest setting to get the wrinkles out. I think that's a very good sign ;-P BTW, if you have a fabric sample you really need to get identified, just send it to Dylon, the dye company - they'll do it for free! (www.dylon.co.uk) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 15:23:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05201 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:23:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RKJ5tv026112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RKJ2RL004871; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RKIcRL004513 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:18:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2ive7fj.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.29.243] helo=[165.247.42.15]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18dFiD-0002p8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:18:34 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michiko@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030127190008.17198.51579.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030127190008.17198.51579.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: michiko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Thanks for the Vienna info! Also: wig examination offer (heh), men's Frocks in Austria?, ToaP :) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:21:46 -0500 Status: RO Hi everyone! Thanks so much for the leads on the Hapsburgs and to try looking up the composers of the period -- about to start off on my hunt but wanted to pop in first and say hello! Also, got this info off the Lacy Wig site you provided (thanks Cathy!) and just wanted to mention that since I'm in NYC (albeit not walking distance from their location) that if anyone from outside of NYC needed me to go in and have a look at the wigs for them (i.e. if the Lacey staff are being too terse and Noo Yawkerish for your tastes :), let me know! I'm curious about their wigs now (obsessed with Vienna research now, though I may just be doing up my own hair) and will probably go in to check it out in the next few weeks and can get you info at the same time, if you need it. I know you all have the link from Cathy but here's their contact info anyway - just passing it along: Lacey's Costume Wig 505 8TH AVE. 11TH FL NEW YORK NY 10018 Fax: 212-695-3860 Toll Free: 800-562-9911 (no website that we know of) As far as the Vienna Opera Ball on Feb 27th, I'm also told the gentleman (i.e. my mysterious, as-yet-unnamed date) must wear a 'frock' - German for tails (black and white), with white gloves, and non-rubber soled dancing shoes. Um, okay. "Butterfly' (whatever this is?), vest, jacket, striped pants. I'll of course be looking this up and checking with tux rental stores (my friend adamantly emphasizes this is not a tux however) and well, it's a bit harrowing because the 'dress code' provided by the Vienna Opera Ball folks is vague and in German as well, and they apparently have a knack for sending crucial information to the wrong address...in the wrong country... :) We have our entrance tickets confirmed, and a seat (paid for ala carte at these fancy dress ball things) but because of a missed deadline (notice having been sent to the wrong country by snail mail) we have 4 people without a...table. Chair paid for, but no table :) Anyway, just thought you might enjoy that little adventure in the works... Anyway, if anyone has expert knowledge on mens' outfit that would be great, but meantime I'll continue poking around, and wanted to say thank you again for the great info so far! (And yes, oops, Amadeus is indeed too early - thanks!) What's the "ToaP look" Michaela, by the way? (In reference to bottom-to-top lacing or top-to-bottom lacing of corsets?) Of course, I'm guessing all sorts of random stuff, but haven't come up with anything worth mentioning! ;) Thanks all, and hope you're staying warm! (Snow in NYC today) Best, Michiko -- ---------------------------------------- Michiko Stehrenberger Illustration & Character Design BimBionic Design Lab | New York http://www.michiko.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 15:42:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05558 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:42:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RKf4tv028149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RKf2l7017516; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RKeSl7017144 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:40:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp247.directcon.net [206.170.184.247] (may be forged)) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0RKdXgr011331; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:39:34 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030127124321.00b7c560@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks for the Vienna info! Also: wig examination offer (heh), men's Frocks in Austria?, ToaP :) In-Reply-To: References: <20030127190008.17198.51579.Mailman@net.indra.com> <20030127190008.17198.51579.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:43:21 -0800 Status: RO At 03:21 PM 01/27/2003 -0500, michiko wrote: >As far as the Vienna Opera Ball on Feb 27th, I'm also told the >gentleman (i.e. my mysterious, as-yet-unnamed date) must wear a >'frock' - German for tails (black and white), with white gloves, and >non-rubber soled dancing shoes. Um, okay. What you want to ask for at formal stores is "white tie". tell them you want the most classic, traditional version, so they don't stick you with one of those hideous modern interpretations of formal that the people who go to awards shows think are attractive. The most classic version is also likely to be the least expensive to rent. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 16:10:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05757 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:10:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RL94tv001008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RL91l7004095; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta03bw.bigpond.com (mta03bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RL8hl7003815 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:08:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.75]) by mta03bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta03bw Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H9E5EC00.F3G for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:08:36 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.48 ([203.54.114.48]) by bwmam03.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 20/4421897); 28 Jan 2003 07:08:29 Message-ID: <3E36AB9B.9593E504@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? References: <20030126.161804.-497543.1.catpurson@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:11:07 -0800 Status: RO Lalah T Tillinghast wrote: > I would say top to bottom. My corset is top to bottom in the > back and I don't have anyone to help me get into it. I leave it laced > loose, step into it and then pull it tight. I don't think I could do it > from the top. From the bottom it isn't all that easy, but it does get > done and I wrap the ribbons around my waist and tie them in the front. > Lacing in the front would be easier, but I don't think it would look > right. > > I've always laced bottom to top, mainly, as Michaela says, to get the breasts in the right place, although since I've had a baby and have a bit more tummy I've been wondering if doing it the other way might be helpful in that respect. But, being well endowed at both ends, I think starting off would be tricky in either way. I don't find it too hard to lace at the back if the lace is long enough and the corset/bodice isn't too low-necked at the back. You lace it loose, as you've said or put it on loose back-to-front, and then wriggle into it. Then you just have to tighten it, and knot it off. It helps of course that I am reasonably flexible with long arms, so there's no spot on my back that I can't reach. How is side-back lacing on the DIY front, for those who've tried it? I've done straight side lacing, and that is definitely better top to bottom, as standing there fiddling about in your armpit trying to undo a cord that's gotten all knotted is a pain. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 16:25:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05914 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:25:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLO2tv002348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLO0l7012514; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLNfl7012360 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:23:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18dGkS-00041s-00; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:24:56 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18dGjC-0000BF-00; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:23:38 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: michiko cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks for the Vienna info! Also: wig examination offer (heh), men's Frocks in Austria?, ToaP :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:23:38 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Hi, just jumping in here, a break from sewing eyelettes on a ballgown bodice. We are actually preparing to take part in a 19th century vintage dance conference in Vienna Feb 3-8. I am so excited, I have always wanted to waltz in Vienna (my mother's hometown). There will be dance classes all day and 2 balls in palaces, as well as a performance of the Magic Fluite at the State Opera! If only I can get everything into my suitcase. I am madly sewing an 1830's gown for the Biedermeier ball (in blue/gold shot taffeta), and getting my 1860's gown ready for the Strauss ball. For this Strauss ball people are mostly doing 1860's and 1890's, since that's what they have. I would suggest last quarter of the 19th century for your event. If you wish you can check out our dance groups website for pics of 1860's and 1890's balls, and my website for gowns and costume advice for those periods. I could email you some images (fashion plates) if you decide which decade appeals to you. www.vintagedancers.org www.vintagevictorian.com re men's wear, tailcoat sounds right, might want to investigate making a vest, or getting one a cut above the average off the rack tux shop vest. Hope this helps. Katy, Vienna or bust Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 16:34:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05955 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:34:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLX1tv003106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLX0l7017576; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLWQl7017281 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2924 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2003 21:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vaio) ([170.215.193.51]) (envelope-sender ) by relay02.roc.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.2) with SMTP for ; 27 Jan 2003 21:32:25 -0000 Message-ID: <001401c2c64b$b3d7b3e0$01fea8c0@vaio> From: "Rowena" To: Cc: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Munich catalog Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:33:15 -0500 Status: RO It arrived!!!! Thank you, Cass! Textile Schatze aus Renaissance und Barock is here!!! I can't read a word of it, but the pictures, as advertised by your wonderful commentary, are just awesome! But can anyone tell me what the things on pages 162 - 163 are? Rowena, in upstate NY _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 16:51:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06216 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:51:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLo2tv004628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLo1l7027550; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLnfl7027329 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:49:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp03-135.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.122.135]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F13E57E7D for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:49:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3E35A975.1020508@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Munich catalog References: <001401c2c64b$b3d7b3e0$01fea8c0@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:49:41 +0100 Status: RO They are linnen tassels. You can see them hanging under the white collars in the painting on page 161. Greetings, Deredere Rowena wrote: >It arrived!!!! Thank you, Cass! Textile Schatze aus Renaissance und >Barock is here!!! > >I can't read a word of it, but the pictures, as advertised by your wonderful >commentary, are just awesome! > >But can anyone tell me what the things on pages 162 - 163 are? >Rowena, in upstate NY > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 16:52:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06243 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:52:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLp2tv004732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RLp1l7028148; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.65.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0RLofl7027891 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:50:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5258 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jan 2003 21:50:36 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FA39.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.228.250.57) by mail.gmx.net (mp010-rz3) with SMTP; 27 Jan 2003 21:50:36 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Munich catalog From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001401c2c64b$b3d7b3e0$01fea8c0@vaio> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:50:36 +0100 Status: RO YIPPY!!!! I was starting to get worried myself! > It arrived!!!! Thank you, Cass! Textile Schatze aus Renaissance und > Barock is here!!! > > I can't read a word of it, but the pictures, as advertised by your wonderful > commentary, are just awesome! > > But can anyone tell me what the things on pages 162 - 163 are? > Rowena, in upstate NY Those are 'Leinenquasten' or linen tassles (of the funkiest kind) - from around 1630. Hmm lets see if I can get some scanned and put on my mac site - it will take a few minuts because there's something funny coming on TV in a minute (that I want to see :) Cass :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 17:24:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06441 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:24:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMNVtv007937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:23:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMNUl7017024; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:23:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMKVl9015385 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:20:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9E00DAP8MRSH@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:18:35 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: chicago, tights In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030127135123.00d703c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030126030300.18238.8091.Mailman@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:52:56 -0800 Status: RO >On the subject of tights, I remember reading in Margot Fonteyne's >autobiography that when dancers wore silk tights, they had to fix all the >runs in them. They were so expensive that there was no throwing them away >until they had been mended so many times that they looked awful! She >described doing it, and I think she talked about using little crochet hooks >to pullthe lost stitches up the "ladders," but I don't remember exactly. >Anyone interested could look it up! You pull one lost stitch up thru the next one, and that one up thru the next, and so on, till you get to the top of the 'ladder', then you sew it firmly so it doesn't come out there again. It's like knitting one stitch, and you can do this with a crochet hook. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 17:27:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06461 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:27:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMNdtv007962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:23:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMNcl7017093; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:23:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMKVlB015385 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:20:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9E00DAP8MRSH@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:18:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] slashing In-reply-to: <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030127135343.00cee9c0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:07:52 -0800 Status: RO >On to another period though. I want to do some slashing for my elizabethan >costume. I got some black silk and some copper silk and I want to slash the >black and have the copper show through. It will go on one of those >brocades you >can get on e-bay. It is a copper and black acetate brocade with a sort of >celtic cross pattern. I would like to see some examples of what it looks >like >though. I have my own ideas of how to do it, but I am not sure if they are >correct. If anyone has any pictures to which they can point me I would >appreciate it. If you just slice a slit in fabric, nothing will show thru. The term 'slashing' is misleading here. 'Slashing' that does allow the inner fabric to show thru the outer fabric is done with panes of the outer fabric, not by just making slits in the outer fabric. The pattern-of-little-slits technique is usually referred to as 'pinking', and nothing shows thru the little slits. And if you want little puffs of the inner fabric to get pulled thru the outer fabric, you need to deal with the edges of the holes you pull the inner fabric thru, so no raw edges show. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 17:34:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06509 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:34:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMX3tv008871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMX1l7022409; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0RMWDl7021930 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:32:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoKuNFL0UPmXrKr0fT+ZctzFdC3uK/9INw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPKKBZQN; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:31:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks for the Vienna info! Also: wig examination offer (heh), men's Frocks in Austria?, ToaP :) Message-ID: <20030127.155550.-242154227.20.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,9-13,16-17 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:55:49 -0600 Status: RO On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:21:46 -0500 michiko writes: > Also, got this info off the Lacy Wig site you provided (thanks > Cathy!) and just wanted to mention that since I'm in NYC (albeit not > walking distance from their location) that if anyone from outside of > NYC needed me to go in and have a look at the wigs for them (i.e. if > the Lacey staff are being too terse and Noo Yawkerish for your > tastes :), let me know! I'm curious about their wigs now (obsessed with > Vienna research now, though I may just be doing up my own hair) and > will probably go in to check it out in the next few weeks and can > get you info at the same time, if you need it. I am very interested in this company and would love to know if their quality is good. If you could take a bit of an exploratory expedition there just to see what they are like, I'd love to hear a report. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 17:41:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06551 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:41:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMe2tv009499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMe0l7026342; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.65.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0RMd0l7025775 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2824 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jan 2003 22:38:54 -0000 Received: from pD9E4FA39.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO ?192.168.2.21?) (217.228.250.57) by mail.gmx.net (mp002-rz3) with SMTP; 27 Jan 2003 22:38:54 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Munich catalog - Blackwork and Tassles From: Cassandra Greer To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:38:54 +0100 Status: RO HI! I have scanned and published some new pictures on my Mac site: http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum7.html I had promised to scan some Blackwork for someone - and totally forgot - but here it is finally. There are also a couple Tassles for those who are interested. Cass :) >> >> I can't read a word of it, but the pictures, as advertised by your wonderful >> commentary, are just awesome! >> >> But can anyone tell me what the things on pages 162 - 163 are? >> Rowena, in upstate NY > Those are 'Leinenquasten' or linen tassles (of the funkiest kind) - from > around 1630. Hmm lets see if I can get some scanned and put on my mac site - > it will take a few minuts because there's something funny coming on TV in a > minute (that I want to see :) > > Cass :) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 18:03:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06665 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:03:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RN26tv013445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:02:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RN23TW010629; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RMwGl7007976 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:58:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003012722580800100871e3e>; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:58:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3E35B9B4.7010801@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] good source for wool? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:59:00 -0800 Status: RO In the last month, someone posted information about a place selling really nice, high-end woolen fabrics. I did not save the info (bad Liz, no biscut!) and would be grateful if someone would resend the info. I am looking for 100% 'tropical weight' worsted wool suiting. Thanks! Liz lizyoung@fenris.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 18:10:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06717 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:10:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RNC6tv015659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:12:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RNC3TW017322; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RNBZTW016976 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:11:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9E003WHB3ACR@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:11:35 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? In-reply-to: <3E35B9B4.7010801@fenris.net> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030127150939.04dc1d90@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:11:17 -0800 Status: RO >In the last month, someone posted information about a place selling really >nice, high-end woolen fabrics. I did not save the info (bad Liz, no >biscut!) and would be grateful if someone would resend the info. >I am looking for 100% 'tropical weight' worsted wool suiting. Is 'tropical weight' really thin? And is Pendleton high-end enough? Try calling the Pendleton Wool outlet in Washugal, WA, whose number you can get from the 800-number directory. They ship. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 18:14:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06746 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:14:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RNG1tv016400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RNG0TW020318; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail1.mackie.com [12.144.237.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RNFjTW020112 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:15:45 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] good source for wool? Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] good source for wool? Thread-Index: AcLGWaCkztoVQFm1TcCPl3biegrKPgAAC4vQ From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0RNFjTW020112 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:15:08 -0800 Status: RO >In the last month, someone posted information about a place selling really >nice, high-end woolen fabrics. I did not save the info (bad Liz, no >biscut!) and would be grateful if someone would resend the info. >I am looking for 100% 'tropical weight' worsted wool suiting. I've seen great wool at www.fashionfabricsclub.com. Lots of wool and different weights. Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 18:21:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06794 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:21:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RNI2tv016799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RNI1TW021619; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0RNHLTW021192 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.144]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h0RNPeB10046 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:25:40 +1100 Message-ID: <069d01c2c65a$b037d300$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: References: <00dc01c2c4f3$5caf8920$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What he's up 2 now! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:19:48 +1100 Status: RO Hi Penny, re: Patrick's knitting lessons Very cool! You may be able to show/find someone else to show him how to felt, then he can make some really cool felted knitted caps - they can get some really great shapes, and look wonderful. I learned from a hazy description from a friend, did a sample square to see how much the felting would change the wool I was using, and made a lovely arming cap for under Wayne's 17th century morion in a couple of evenings. There are some really cool designs from the 16th/17th century that are quite high crowned, and I think they'd fit into the fashions of today well. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 19:57:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07379 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:57:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S0x4tv027594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S0x0TW012276; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S0wSTW012030 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:58:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <20030128005822001008903je>; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:58:22 +0000 Message-ID: <3E35D5E5.60107@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:59:17 -0800 Status: RO Thanks, but this was a specific on-line (?) vendor, not Pendelton or fashionfabricsclub. It was someone I hadn't heard of before. I remember one of the early posts stated that the prices might be more than most of us wanted to spend but one/several people then said that they did have need of expensive woolens sometimes. Isn't it funny what we remember and don't? Liz Colleen McDonald wrote: >>In the last month, someone posted information about a place selling really >>nice, high-end woolen fabrics. I did not save the info (bad Liz, no >>biscut!) and would be grateful if someone would resend the info. >>I am looking for 100% 'tropical weight' worsted wool suiting. >> >> > >I've seen great wool at www.fashionfabricsclub.com. Lots of wool and different weights. > >Colleen > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 20:15:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07489 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:15:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S1H1tv028693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S1H0TW018703; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S1GETW018427 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0281.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.217.26] helo=[209.179.250.4]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18dKMH-0003cN-00 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:16:14 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Philadelphia... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:18:17 -0800 Status: RO I'll be in Philadelphia in mid-March. I'm wondering if there are any must-see locations. I absolutely intend to go to the Mutter Museum, and i've already been to Independence Hall. Museums, galleries, collections? Restaurants (my daughter is a vegetarian)? Shopping for costuming and/or food specialties (without a car)? Thanks, Anahita living in the San Francisco Bay Area _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 20:50:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07735 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:50:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S1p2tv000819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S1p0TW000152; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno6.lax.untd.com (m15.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0S1okTW029950 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:50:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"zDT9J7+GjNHhZUZmXWsl4EYLskECbZQDnF5ofpZwSgmia0b4xU0TnQ=="> Received: (from luann.mason@juno.com) by m15.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPKWQGC4; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:50:38 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? Message-ID: <20030127.174727.-3930253.30.luann.mason@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-16,18-23 From: luann.mason@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:32:05 -0800 Status: RO On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:11:17 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > > >In the last month, someone posted information about a place selling > really > >nice, high-end woolen fabrics. I did not save the info (bad Liz, no > > >biscut!) and would be grateful if someone would resend the info. > >I am looking for 100% 'tropical weight' worsted wool suiting. > > Is 'tropical weight' really thin? And is Pendleton high-end enough? > Try > calling the Pendleton Wool outlet in Washugal, WA, whose number you > can get > from the 800-number directory. They ship. And their prices are phenomenal. Here's the local number in case there's not an 800: 360-835-1118, then just ask for fabric. HTH-- LuAnn (12 miles from the outlet--woohoo!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 21:21:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07922 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:21:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S2N2tv002515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S2N1TW010866; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S2MQTW010648 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:22:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.f2.28663299 (3842) for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:22:19 -0500 (EST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.28663299.2b67435b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Subject: [h-cost] Laceys costume wigs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:22:19 EST Status: RO --part1_f2.28663299.2b67435b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love Lacey's! Most of the costume wigs I've bought have, even when purchased thru another source, turned out when I saw their tags to have come from Lacey's. The point about abruptness is dead on, but don't let their phone manner fool you, they have great service and great products. Unfortunately the catalog isn't the greatest, it's all rather cartoon-y line drawings, and therefore somewhat hard judge exactly what the wig will look like. Ask folks who've ordered from them for suggestions as to which style will be right for your use. And if there is a choice chose the pricier version. The alonge and deluxe alonge are among my favorites, good for 17th/18th c depending on how you style it. I've combed out the top of one of these and gotten a really nice late 1700s look - the giant pouf on top with long curls hanging down a la "Jefferson in Paris." Another good wig co. is Garland wigs, they have a website with actual photos: garlandbty.com NO www but if I remember correctly you can't order online. The Mae wig is a nice versatile one that you can style a multitude of ways. Happy hair shopping. Cheers, Loren --part1_f2.28663299.2b67435b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I love Lacey's!  Most of the costume wigs I've bought have, even when purchased thru another source, turned out when I saw their tags to have come from Lacey's.  The point about abruptness is dead on, but don't let their phone manner fool you, they have great service and great products.  Unfortunately the catalog isn't the greatest, it's all rather cartoon-y line drawings, and therefore somewhat hard judge exactly what the wig will look like.  Ask folks who've ordered from them for suggestions as to which style will be right for your use.  And if there is a choice chose the pricier version.

The alonge and deluxe alonge are among my favorites, good for 17th/18th c depending on how you style it.  I've combed out the top of one of these and gotten a really nice late 1700s look - the giant pouf on top with long curls hanging down a la "Jefferson in Paris."

Another good wig co. is Garland wigs, they have a website with actual photos: garlandbty.com      NO www
but if I remember correctly you can't order online.  The Mae wig is a nice versatile one that you can style a multitude of ways.

Happy hair shopping.  Cheers,

Loren --part1_f2.28663299.2b67435b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 21:27:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07952 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:27:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S2T1tv002872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S2T0TW012635; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S2SETW012415 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AABDC79F0102; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:28:13 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AABD7250146; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:28:13 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd01c2c675$011dd200$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia... X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:28:54 -0500 Status: RO I didn't do the usual tourist thing in Phillie. But I had a blast! I went to the Franklin Mint Museum. They have the Princess Di Elvis dress there. The amount of pearls on it is unbelievable. Then we ate lunch at American Bandstand. They have a lot of Rock and Roll costumes there. It is a fun atmosphere. Both places let you take lots of photos. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 23:19:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08535 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:19:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S4L4tv008893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S4L0TW019640; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from franka.aracnet.com (franka.aracnet.com [216.99.193.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S4KbTW019379 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:20:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by franka.aracnet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0S4KRgb009728 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:20:28 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] good source for wool? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030127150939.04dc1d90@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:25:35 -0800 Status: RO To the EVIL people who sent me to the Pendleton Outlet in Washougal... Well, your karma will get you for that! Actually, there are two Pendleton outlet stores in the Portland/Washougal area. The second is behind the GoodWill As is store on McLaughlin a sort way north of Mill Ends Fabric and on the other side of the road. This store carries different wool fabric, heavier, and fabric that is made to look like the Pendleton Blankets. The regular wools run from $10 a yard there, the blanket look alikes run $57.00 a yard - fortunately, not period enough patterns to worry us about. The wool yardage at the Washougal store runs $3-6.00 a yard and is limited selection to "what you see is what you get". Just for grins and giggles, there is a Pendleton outlet at the woolen mills in Pendleton, Oregon too! Fabric for around $10.00 a yard there, and lots of different blankets since this is the mill where they primarily make those blankets (which are about $155 for a second if you can find one, $255 for a first!) Also try www.Phoenixtextiles.com . Having bought some of their "Northwest woolens" I have grave suspicions that some are actually Pendleton without the brand name. Nothing else feels like Pendleton in my opinion. Those people weave and full their fabric to a far tighter textile than other wools I have found, even when they are so light that you can see through them. If you check, they actually weigh more per yard than most other woolens. I mention this because I grew up in Pendleton, OR, and a trip to the mills was pretty common if you wanted to make something that would last. My uncle's shirts came from such yardage. Made in 1930, and passed on to my brother in 1959 with only minor wear except on the cuffs. Regina -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 3:11 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? >In the last month, someone posted information about a place selling really >nice, high-end woolen fabrics. I did not save the info (bad Liz, no >biscut!) and would be grateful if someone would resend the info. >I am looking for 100% 'tropical weight' worsted wool suiting. Is 'tropical weight' really thin? And is Pendleton high-end enough? Try calling the Pendleton Wool outlet in Washugal, WA, whose number you can get from the 800-number directory. They ship. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Jan 27 23:21:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08568 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:21:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S4N1tv008980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S4N1TW020253; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S4MJTW020024 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A57AA324010C; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:22:18 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A57B12620138; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:22:19 -0600 Message-ID: <022e01c2c684$ef1c7ec0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030121195927.01face80@saltmine.radix.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing Machines and Backaches X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:22:56 -0500 Status: RO Thank you to everyone for your suggestions. I was really surprised by all the answers. I will be trying some of the inexpensive ones first. I have an exercise ball. My doctor is also working on getting me a tens unit. I did see the kneeling chair in Office Max. I tried it out and it did make my back feel good. I am scared that it will bother my feet. I am having a lot of problems with them. Many thanks again, Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 01:52:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09254 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:52:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S6r2tv015711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S6r0Og004335; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S6qnOg004275 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:52:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07819 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:05:25 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC 21 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030123235654.0195c4b0@radiks.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:05:25 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > For the wig, at least, you can try Lacey Costume Wigs in New York > City. They have a huge selection of styles, REALLY cheap. Many thanks! This actually sounds manageable. I'm doing '60s Mod for the social (I will look marginally less awful in that than I would in '20s) and my hair will be the least period-looking part of me -- too curly and too long. I refuse to either cut it or (the period solution) iron it :-O but if I could get a cheap wig in a flip style or something similar, I'm in business. I've never worn a wig, and I have a ton of hair to stuff under it. Does that affect sizing? Any tips? And while we're asking around, anybody have a pair of white, pink, or orange go-go boots in a size 8-1/2? :-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 03:04:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15020 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 03:04:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S858tv017475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:05:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S851Og022478; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (hirogen.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S84LOg022261 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp01-145.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.120.145]) by hirogen.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A4A7D73 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:04:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3E363986.5070503@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Munich catalog - Blackwork References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060206020801010701000603" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:04:22 +0100 Status: RO --------------060206020801010701000603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I love that black "lace" on the edges of the rufs! How can you make it? I think I saw something in a book but I can't remember where and can't find it in the books I have. If anyone can send me an explenation of how to make it, I would be very happy.. Greetings, Deredere Cassandra Greer wrote: >HI! > >I have scanned and published some new pictures on my Mac site: > >http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum7.html > >I had promised to scan some Blackwork for someone - and totally forgot - but >here it is finally. There are also a couple Tassles for those who are >interested. > >Cass :) > > > >>>I can't read a word of it, but the pictures, as advertised by your wonderful >>>commentary, are just awesome! >>> >>>But can anyone tell me what the things on pages 162 - 163 are? >>>Rowena, in upstate NY >>> >>> >>Those are 'Leinenquasten' or linen tassles (of the funkiest kind) - from >>around 1630. Hmm lets see if I can get some scanned and put on my mac site - >>it will take a few minuts because there's something funny coming on TV in a >>minute (that I want to see :) >> >>Cass :) >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > --------------060206020801010701000603 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

I love that black "lace" on the edges of the rufs!
How can you make it?
I think I saw something in a book but I can't remember where and can't find it in the books I have.
If anyone can send me an explenation of how to make it, I would be very happy..

Greetings,
            Deredere

Cassandra Greer wrote:
HI!

I have scanned and published some new pictures on my Mac site:

http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum7.html

I had promised to scan some Blackwork for someone - and totally forgot - but
here it is finally. There are also a couple Tassles for those who are
interested.

Cass :)

  
I can't read a word of it, but the pictures, as advertised by your wonderful
commentary, are just awesome!

But can anyone tell me what the things on pages 162 - 163 are?
Rowena, in upstate NY
      
Those are 'Leinenquasten' or linen tassles (of the funkiest kind) - from
around 1630. Hmm lets see if I can get some scanned and put on my mac site -
it will take a few minuts because there's something funny coming on TV in a
minute (that I want to see :)

Cass :)

    

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

--------------060206020801010701000603-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 03:17:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25518 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 03:17:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S8J2tv017821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S8J1Og025865; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S8I9Og025625 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08081 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:30:45 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? In-Reply-To: <3E35D5E5.60107@fenris.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:30:45 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Elizabeth Young wrote: > Thanks, but this was a specific on-line (?) vendor, not Pendelton or > fashionfabricsclub. It was someone I hadn't heard of before. I > remember one of the early posts stated that the prices might be more > than most of us wanted to spend but one/several people then said that > they did have need of expensive woolens sometimes. That may have been what I posted on December 12, under the subject line "High-end wools". You can probably find the thread in the archives by now if you want to read the conversation again -- I have the impression that this vendor sells only "to the trade," but then, they don't have a minimum cut, so you might be able to get what you need. URL is: http://www.grabiewoolen.com/ I don't gather that they have an online business, but they've posted their range, and you can inquire, get sample cards, etc. I inquired specifically about twill weaves in worsteds. The owner's son replied that they have these 2x2 twills in 100% Australian merino worsted wool: Gabardine, Flannel, Satin Gabardine, Cavalry, Twill and Satin Twill. Prices are $25.00 - $27.50 per yard for cut pieces (2 to 85 yards) and $l5.68 to $l8.33 for full bolts (80-85 yards). As for Fashion Fabrics Club, we have some great worsteds in men's tropical weight at the store right now, and on sale, but only a few colors on hand. If you need navy, black, grey, or camel in not too large a quantity, I can probably fix you up; email me directly. --Robin, catching up on 600 emails after a wonderful but exhausting workshop weekend in California _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 04:44:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21512 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:44:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S9j3tv019943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:45:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S9j1Og015967; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S9ikOg015900 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from p373-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.119] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18dSIO-0008PC-00; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:44:45 +1300 Message-ID: <007401c2c6b1$e2878b00$77c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030126.161804.-497543.1.catpurson@juno.com> <3E36AB9B.9593E504@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:44:41 +1300 Status: RO > I've always laced bottom to top, mainly, as Michaela says, to get the > breasts > in the right place, although since I've had a baby and have a bit more tummy hehe, I have practically no bust so I do it so everything South heads north;) And on a similar vein.. I read a comment about (I think) Vivian Leigh in GwtW, about how difficult it was to get cleavage in costumes for her. Not only was she modestly endowed (not talking nothing, but also not ample) but her rib cage was so round so there was a gap that was really difficult to well.. fill. I have the same probs. Makes for a lot of adjusting back stage. I was once cast as a woman whos cleavage is commented on... required much padding and much altering of bras to get anything. And liberal use of bronzing powder;) > It helps of course that I am reasonably > flexible with long arms, so there's no spot on my back that I can't reach. There was a time I could even hook up a long 1840s bodice up my back. Sadly those days are now gone.. ah well. > How is side-back lacing on the DIY front, for those who've tried it? I've > done straight side lacing, and that is definitely better top to bottom, as > standing > there fiddling about in your armpit trying to undo a cord that's gotten all > knotted > is a pain. hehe, I haven't tried lacing bottom to top on my side lacing... but yeah I can see how it would be difficult;) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 04:45:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21518 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:45:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S9l1tv019995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S9l1Og016425; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0S9kkOg016364 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from p373-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.119] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18dSKK-0006wf-00; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:46:44 +1300 Message-ID: <007501c2c6b2$2b6a2490$77c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030126030300.18238.8091.Mailman@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20030127135123.00d703c0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: chicago, tights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:46:44 +1300 Status: RO > >Anyone interested could look it up! > You pull one lost stitch up thru the next one, and that one up thru the > next, and so on, till you get to the top of the 'ladder', then you sew it > firmly so it doesn't come out there again. It's like knitting one stitch, > and you can do this with a crochet hook. Yep. I have a ballet costuming book from the 1950s that has that explains it. As well as how to make a tutu and a knitted leotard;) Actually it has a lot of useful info in it. michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 06:45:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21909 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:45:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SBl4tv023392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:47:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SBl1Og011285; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SBkMOg011131 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:46:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B1A3116848 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:27:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F278411666A for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:27:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <020b01c2c6c0$2d7d92e0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <20030126.161804.-497543.1.catpurson@juno.com> <3E36AB9B.9593E504@bigpond.com> <007401c2c6b1$e2878b00$77c1adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:26:58 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:44 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? .. I read a comment about (I think) Vivian > Leigh in GwtW, about how difficult it was to get cleavage in costumes for > her. Not only was she modestly endowed (not talking nothing, but also not > ample) but her rib cage was so round so there was a gap that was really > difficult to well.. fill. I read something one time (probably apocryphal) about when they costuming Miss Leigh for the movie. Laurence Olivier was watching as they taped and taped to get her some cleavage. After a while, he commented, "And all this time, I thought they were perfectly lovely." I also have a big ribcage (small boned everywhere else, so can't blame my weight problems on being big boned!) and a wide space between my very average size breasts. Getting cleavage is far from easy! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 06:46:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21919 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:46:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SBm2tv023421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SBm1Og011495; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40002.mail.yahoo.com (web40002.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0SBlKOg011325 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:47:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030128114712.4958.qmail@web40002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:47:12 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: H-costume list , Godecookery List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Excavation of a C7th Manor House Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:47:12 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO I got sent this and thought it might be of interest to those on the list. Rachel http://cphpost.periskop.dk/default.asp?id=27289 By Christopher Follett 24. januar 2003 Print Article (IE & NS 4+) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original seventh century Viking manor house building unearthed west of Copenhagen. Archaeologists excavating Denmark's most important site - a huge Viking manor house complex on Lake Tissø, west of Copenhagen - are gleaning key information about the life style of the Norse elite over one thousand years ago. The 2002 dig at the site, located north of the town of Slagelse in west Zealand, Denmark's largest island on which Copenhagen is situated, ended in December with the sensational discovery of the foundations of a manor house building dating back to 500-600 AD - the original building on the site. ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 06:57:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21966 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:57:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SBx4tv023745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SBx1Og013962; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40014.mail.yahoo.com (web40014.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0SBwgOg013843 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:58:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030128115836.34975.qmail@web40014.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40014.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:58:36 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: Blackwork List , Historic Costuming , H-costume list , HNW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] 16C Clothing & Culture. - V&A Museum Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:58:36 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Just a heads up for anyone who is interested. The living history group I belong to "The Tudor Group" is putting on an exhibit at the V&A Musuem on the 22nd and 23rd of March 2003. I'll be doing my embroidery but there is lots more as described below from our website (www.tudorgroup.co.uk): 16C Clothing & Culture. Presentations throughout the museum on The Elizabethans, covering - A Tailors Workshop; embroiderers'; Spinners; Braiders; Music; Dance; Clothing and other aspects of period life. Also includes Perrotts Puppet Players(16C Puppeteers). Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 07:07:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21984 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:07:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SC85tv024182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 05:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SC82Og015835; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 05:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SC7sOg015806 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 05:07:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.244.181.154.dial1.newyork2.level3.net ([209.244.181.154] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18dUWv-0003Dj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:07:53 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128070445.03859eb0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? In-Reply-To: <20030128081901.25863.79907.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:07:14 -0500 Status: RO On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:59:17 -0800, Elizabeth Young wrote: >Date: >From: >User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) >Gecko/20020910 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? >References: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: h-costume-admin@mail.indra.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: , > >List-Id: Re-creating period costume, > from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century >List-Unsubscribe: , > >List-Archive: > >Thanks, but this was a specific on-line (?) vendor, not Pendelton or >fashionfabricsclub. It was someone I hadn't heard of before. I remember >one of the early posts stated that the prices might be more than most of >us wanted to spend but one/several people then said that they did have >need of expensive woolens sometimes. >Isn't it funny what we remember and don't? Could it have been: >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:31:14 -0600 (CST) >From: Robin Netherton >To: Historic Costume List >Subject: [h-cost] High-end wools >Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > >I lately stumbled on a trade source (New York) of some really >lovely-looking wool fabric. It's out of my price range, but if anyone is >doing high-end reproductions or museum work and needs the perfect >color/weave, you might find it here: >http://www.grabiewoolen.com/ >I inquired specifically about twill weaves in worsteds. The owner's son >replied that they have these 2x2 twills in 100% Australian merino worsted >wool: Gabardine, Flannel, Satin Gabardine, Cavalry, Twill and Satin Twill. >Prices are $25.00 - $27.50 per yard for cut pieces (2 to 85 yards) and >$l5.68 to $l8.33 for full bolts (80-85 yards). Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 08:31:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22565 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:31:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SDX4tv026820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SDX0Og005889; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SDWqOg005840 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:32:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-3-105.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.3.105] helo=dan) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18dVr7-0003re-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:32:50 +0000 Message-ID: <004601c2c6d3$079687e0$690327d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <20030128115836.34975.qmail@web40014.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16C Clothing & Culture. - V&A Museum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:41:58 -0000 Status: RO Rachel wrote: > Just a heads up for anyone who is interested. The living history group I belong to "The Tudor > Group" is putting on an exhibit at the V&A Musuem on the 22nd and 23rd of March 2003. I'll be > doing my embroidery but there is lots more as described below from our website > (www.tudorgroup.co.uk): It sounds marvellous, and I should very much like to be there; it depends on whether I'm up to getting over to the V&A. The joys of the circle line:-( Good luck with it, whether I make it over there or not:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 08:32:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22576 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:32:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SDY6tv026879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:34:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SDY0Og006148; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SDXjOg006099 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0SDXhp02501.; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:33:43 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:33:43 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0SDXjOg006099 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:33:08 +0000 Status: RO Michaela wrote: > I read a comment about (I think) Vivian Leigh in GwtW, about how difficult it >was to get cleavage in costumes for her. Not only was she modestly >endowed (not talking nothing, but also not ample) but her rib cage was so >round so there was a gap that was really difficult to well.. fill. I have exactly the same problem. No spare flesh, but prominent lower ribs, so my 17th century stays don't give me any cleavage unless I stuff something down them to fill in the gap. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 08:42:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22867 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:42:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SDi6tv027318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SDi4Og008902; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SDhpOg008816 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:43:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m50.in-tch.com [216.166.191.50]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0SDR6r19131 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:27:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E368942.89D8FA91@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC 21 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:44:34 -0700 Status: RO Robin in go-go boots? Oh, gawd....just that alone might be worth coming to Chicago for! And you do have a lot of hair, darn it ! Braiding it would probably reduce the overall volume... This Con is sounding, more and more, like a LOT of fun! --sue, who has nothing to wear, anyway ;-( Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > > > For the wig, at least, you can try Lacey Costume Wigs in New York > > City. They have a huge selection of styles, REALLY cheap. > > Many thanks! This actually sounds manageable. > > I'm doing '60s Mod for the social (I will look marginally less awful in > that than I would in '20s) and my hair will be the least period-looking > part of me -- too curly and too long. I refuse to either cut it or (the > period solution) iron it :-O but if I could get a cheap wig in a flip > style or something similar, I'm in business. > > I've never worn a wig, and I have a ton of hair to stuff under it. Does > that affect sizing? Any tips? > > And while we're asking around, anybody have a pair of white, pink, or > orange go-go boots in a size 8-1/2? :-) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 10:17:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23443 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:17:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SFI6tv001810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:18:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SFI13q007187; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SFH53q006603 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:17:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <200301281517000010086t8qe>; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:17:00 +0000 Message-ID: <3E369F26.9080205@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:17:58 -0800 Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >That may have been what I posted on December 12, under the subject line >"High-end wools". You can probably find the thread in the archives by now >if you want to read the conversation again -- I have the impression that >this vendor sells only "to the trade," but then, they don't have a minimum >cut, so you might be able to get what you need. URL is: > >http://www.grabiewoolen.com/ > > > thank you Robin and Brenda - that's the place! Liz > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 11:47:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24097 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:47:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SGl5tv011127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SGl1jY026857; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SGkfjY026568 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:46:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from 32-139.tnt-1.york.supernet.com ([64.41.32.139] helo=[64.41.32.18]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18dYsh-0002qE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:46:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030128081901.25863.33160.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030128081901.25863.33160.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Philly must sees Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:45:45 -0500 Status: RO Hi Not at all fabric, but sooo much fun--the Philly Flower Show, should be 2nd week in March. Really Big and a nice break from winter (tho the CA folks might not need one ) Ta Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 12:18:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24273 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:18:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHJ4tv014641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHJ0jY016903; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0SHIJjY016349 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oj63TaOCw33hnkazFrPKvqc="> Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPMKRQY9; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:17:34 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Munich catalog - Blackwork and Tassles Message-ID: <20030128.091408.504.4.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-42 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:11:51 -0800 Status: RO How pretty! Nice work! :-) Arlys On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:38:54 +0100 Cassandra Greer writes: > HI! > > I have scanned and published some new pictures on my Mac site: > > http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum7.html > > I had promised to scan some Blackwork for someone - and totally > forgot - but > here it is finally. There are also a couple Tassles for those who > are > interested. > > Cass :) > > >> > >> I can't read a word of it, but the pictures, as advertised by > your wonderful > >> commentary, are just awesome! > >> > >> But can anyone tell me what the things on pages 162 - 163 are? > >> Rowena, in upstate NY > > Those are 'Leinenquasten' or linen tassles (of the funkiest kind) > - from > > around 1630. Hmm lets see if I can get some scanned and put on my > mac site - > > it will take a few minuts because there's something funny coming > on TV in a > > minute (that I want to see :) > > > > Cass :) > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 12:24:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24319 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:24:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHP4tv015238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:25:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHP1jY020293; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHO3jY019730 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:24:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h0SHNqo26566 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:23:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E36BCAC.8E8BBAFE@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:23:57 -0500 Status: RO My daughter goes to University of the Arts and likes to eat at a little place called COSI on 15th Street and Spruce? or maybe one block closer to Walnut? It's just at the back of the new Kimmel Center. It's not a big fancy restaurant, more of a chic coffee shop. But if you're going shopping on 4th for fabric, there's lots of places -- and Philly really has a lot of art schools so there's lots of art students who tend to favor vegetarian cuisine so you should find quite a few places. Kate lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: > I'll be in Philadelphia in mid-March. I'm wondering if there are any > must-see locations. I absolutely intend to go to the Mutter Museum, > and i've already been to Independence Hall. > > Museums, galleries, collections? Restaurants (my daughter is a > vegetarian)? Shopping for costuming and/or food specialties (without > a car)? > > Thanks, > > Anahita > living in the San Francisco Bay Area > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 12:38:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24394 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:38:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHdOtv016763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHdMjY029281; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHcVjY028765 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-249-32.s32.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.249.32] helo=rcn.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18dZgs-0002GL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:38:30 -0500 Message-ID: <3E36C028.3EC7E7DA@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns References: <20030118001701.8234.51688.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:38:48 -0500 Status: RO Subject: RE: [h-cost] Wearing 'off the shoulder' gowns Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:57:32 -0500 From: "Catelli, A" To: "'catelli@rcn.com'" > From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" I'd say Some humans (most) are not made that way, but some are. It's like the percentage of 6'3", size two women with extremely square shoulders, minimal hips and some breasts, who are mostly employed as mannequins/models. > Humans are not made that way, but some people have really > sloping shoulders > (I'm NOT one of them, but my bf is, his shirts always tend to > wrinkle around > the neckline because his shoulders drop so much) I am one of those people, too, as is Katy Bishop of this list. I think our figures are the nineteenth century fashion-plate type. (from c. 1825-1870, anyway) Neither of us has a 45 degree slope, quite, but the slope is greater than double the usual slope of the 'normal' figure I.e., if a normal shoulder drops one inch, mine drops 2 over its width. The current model fashion figure & model, too, has extremely square and straight shoulders, but I'm not talking that extreme, either. The 1980's put shoulder pads on top of that; thank heavens fashion has swung away from there. Katy has that nineteenth century face, too. I just look like my Irish & French-Canadian ancestors, which is not like a fashion plate of any period. A small resemblance to some of the older square Dutch faces of the golden age of Dutch painting. Pet peeve, from this tail of the bell-curve of figure variations, is that all modern directions to fit very sloping shoulders call for shoulder pads until the unaltered bodice &/or sleeve fits. Sleeve caps are very often too tall for my shoulders, as well at the body shoulder pieces. > I guess it was just a look considered attractive for the > period, and the cut > of the dresses emphasized that shape. The artist might have > taken liberties > somewhat to make her look more attractive in the portrait... I'm sure this comes into play, too. > From: "Nancy Kiel" > > > And maybe the portraits aren't always accurate. Looking > > through 20,000 years, there's a portrait of Marguerite Wasa > > from 1528 that shows a slope of > > about 45 degrees from the base of her neck to the point of her > > shoulder---are humans made that way? > > Or maybe they just kept their > > dresses on the way I'm often tempted to do-----a staplegun! *S* Use gaff tape (like the grown-up big brother of duct tape), of course. Maybe anti-gravity? (serious answer: Clothilde sells 'Res-Q Tape' to hold clothing in place.) Or magically learn to fit the gowns. It's only taken Robin N. 20 years of study & experiment to come to her conclusions about the gothic fitted gown; start now & get off-shoulder theory/ies by 2023. or sloping shoulder theory/ies, should you prefer. Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 12:48:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24451 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:48:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHm2tv017530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHm1jY005378; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx3.wvu.edu (mx3.wvu.edu [157.182.140.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SHlJjY004687 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:47:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from wvucommon9a.wvu.edu (wvucommon9a.wvu.edu [157.182.140.227]) by mx3.wvu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0SHl9U20240 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:47:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu ([157.182.215.110]) by wvucommon9a.wvu.edu (NAVGW 2.5.2.9) with SMTP id M2003012812470910989 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:47:09 -0500 Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:47:09 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: chicago, tights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:47:02 -0500 Status: RO Oh, Michaela, This sounds like a book I have been looking for for a long time. I borrowed one and used it years ago, gave it back to the owner, lost touch with her, and then forgot the title. Could you please send all the citation info for your ballet book! The one I used had been published in England. Thanks, Kathy Hoover >>> thebruce@ihug.co.nz 01/28/03 04:47 AM >>> > and you can do this with a crochet hook. Yep. I have a ballet costuming book from the 1950s that has that explains it. As well as how to make a tutu and a knitted leotard;) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 13:06:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24597 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:06:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SI2Gtv019085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SI2CjY014380; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:02:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SI1hjY014023 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:01:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A586A10F010C; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:01:42 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A5862BD0278; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:01:42 -0600 Message-ID: <00e401c2c6f7$263c4120$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: chicago, tights X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:00:31 -0500 Status: RO Hi Kathy Hoover, the redhead in West Virginia. Long time no see. How is your degree coming along????????? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 13:08:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24610 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:08:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SI97tv020074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:09:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SI92jY018547; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (dav54.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.22.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SI8CjY017948 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:08:07 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [68.32.147.134] From: "Lady Mariota" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2003 18:08:07.0161 (UTC) FILETIME=[3580AE90:01C2C6F8] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:05:07 -0500 Status: RO Has anyone suggested JoMar to you. It is fabric heaven, most for under $5.00 (closer to $1.00) It is a definite place to see and stay a while. I don't have the address handy but you can get it off yahoo maps. Let me know if you have any problems, Lady Mariota ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Philadelphia... > I'll be in Philadelphia in mid-March. I'm wondering if there are any > must-see locations. I absolutely intend to go to the Mutter Museum, > and i've already been to Independence Hall. > > Museums, galleries, collections? Restaurants (my daughter is a > vegetarian)? Shopping for costuming and/or food specialties (without > a car)? > > Thanks, > > Anahita > living in the San Francisco Bay Area > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 14:41:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25178 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:41:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SJf4tv028663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:41:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SJf0jY013102; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SJeijY012911 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:40:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fac.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.172]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 04296480055 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:40:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001401c2c705$2f5e2c60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20030128115836.34975.qmail@web40014.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16C Clothing & Culture. - V&A Museum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:40:59 +0100 Status: RO Hi. Oh what a shame. This is two early. I am going over there, but in the start of april. I would have loved to go and watch you! Bjarne who has begun to sew together my embroidered suit. Buttons i make buttons these days. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel" To: "Blackwork List" ; "Historic Costuming" ; "H-costume list" ; "HNW" Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:58 PM Subject: [h-cost] 16C Clothing & Culture. - V&A Museum > Just a heads up for anyone who is interested. The living history group I belong to "The Tudor > Group" is putting on an exhibit at the V&A Musuem on the 22nd and 23rd of March 2003. I'll be > doing my embroidery but there is lots more as described below from our website > (www.tudorgroup.co.uk): > > 16C Clothing & Culture. > Presentations throughout the museum on The Elizabethans, covering - A Tailors Workshop; > embroiderers'; Spinners; Braiders; Music; Dance; Clothing and other aspects of period life. > Also includes Perrotts Puppet Players(16C Puppeteers). > > Rachel > > ===== > Rachel > > Tudor Bibliography > http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 15:06:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25362 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:06:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SK65tv001082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SK61jY026609; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SK5djY026363 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <20030128200533001008achqe>; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:05:33 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030128120211.00a1e1d0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: chicago, tights In-Reply-To: <007501c2c6b2$2b6a2490$77c1adcb@michaela> References: <20030126030300.18238.8091.Mailman@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20030127135123.00d703c0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:02:54 -0800 Status: RO could you give the reference for the ballet costuming book? If you ever need to sell yours, let me know. maryann At 10:46 PM 1/28/2003 +1300, you wrote: > > >Anyone interested could look it up! > > You pull one lost stitch up thru the next one, and that one up thru the > > next, and so on, till you get to the top of the 'ladder', then you sew it > > firmly so it doesn't come out there again. It's like knitting one stitch, > > and you can do this with a crochet hook. > >Yep. I have a ballet costuming book from the 1950s that has that explains >it. > >As well as how to make a tutu and a knitted leotard;) > >Actually it has a lot of useful info in it. > >michaela >http://recital.tripod.com/costume > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 15:57:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25733 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:57:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SKw3tv006541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SKw1jY026390; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SKv0jY025739 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0SKuxMw019939 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:57:00 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <022e01c2c684$ef1c7ec0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:56:59 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Folks, I was just watching the Lord Peter Wimsey DVDs (with Edward Petherbridge) that my DH got me for Christmas, and have gotten a wild hair about knitting some of the caps etc. that I saw various people wearing. There _used_ to be a web site up for vintage knitting patterns, but I went searching for it today, and it's been taken down (temporarily, anyway). Can anyone recommend other web sites with good vintage knitting patterns, specifically from the late 20s/early 30s? Other books or sources? Thanks, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 16:09:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25846 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:08:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SL82tv007701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SL819w002544; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SL7L9w002165 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0SL73Bs031085 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:07:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301282107.h0SL73Bs031085@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Elizabeth Young" at Jan 27, 2003 04:59:17 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:07:03 -0800 (PST) Status: RO It was probably Grabie -- http://www.grabiewoolen.com/ but it might also have been http://www.trimfabric.com/ -- they have italian wools .heather. > > Thanks, but this was a specific on-line (?) vendor, not Pendelton or > fashionfabricsclub. It was someone I hadn't heard of before. I remember > one of the early posts stated that the prices might be more than most of > us wanted to spend but one/several people then said that they did have > need of expensive woolens sometimes. > Isn't it funny what we remember and don't? > > Liz > > Colleen McDonald wrote: > > >>In the last month, someone posted information about a place selling really > >>nice, high-end woolen fabrics. I did not save the info (bad Liz, no > >>biscut!) and would be grateful if someone would resend the info. > >>I am looking for 100% 'tropical weight' worsted wool suiting. > >> > >> > > > >I've seen great wool at www.fashionfabricsclub.com. Lots of wool and different weights. > > > >Colleen > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 16:18:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25915 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:18:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SLI3tv008891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SLI19w008466; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0SLHb9w008186 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:17:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoKuNFL0UPmXfUbEcYmi+LK5tnKHUmLylA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPMZGKJ2; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:17:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns Message-ID: <20030128.150643.-242154227.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-12,14-40 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:06:42 -0600 Status: RO Ah! Another Lord Peter fan! I am, in fact watching a vintage Ian Carmichael Lord Peter even as I type. I like both Wimseys, they are quite different but each bring out aspects of the character. In a fashion note, it's interesting to look back on the ones made in the early 1970's and see how much the fashion aesthetic of the time effected the way 1920's fashion was depicted. I had the pleasure of having Edward Petherbridge (most recent Lord Peter) as a guide for the Shakespeare Walk in London a couple of years ago, he's very good with a sonnet! Karen On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:56:59 -0500 (EST) Kevin & Mara Riley writes: > Folks, > > I was just watching the Lord Peter Wimsey DVDs (with Edward > Petherbridge) > that my DH got me for Christmas, and have gotten a wild hair about > knitting some of the caps etc. that I saw various people wearing. > > There _used_ to be a web site up for vintage knitting patterns, but > I went > searching for it today, and it's been taken down (temporarily, > anyway). > Can anyone recommend other web sites with good vintage knitting > patterns, > specifically from the late 20s/early 30s? Other books or sources? > > Thanks, > Mara > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 16:33:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25998 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:33:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SLW2tv010426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SLW09w016376; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta01ps.bigpond.com (mta01ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SLV39w015813 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.69]) by mta01ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta01ps Jul 16 2002 22:47:55) with SMTP id H9G13J00.DUR for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:30:55 +1000 Received: from 203.54.114.13 ([203.54.114.13]) by PSMAM01.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 65/942478); 29 Jan 2003 07:30:51 Message-ID: <3E38025C.F79A1CEE@bigpond.com> From: Claire Clarke Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? References: <20030126.161804.-497543.1.catpurson@juno.com> <3E36AB9B.9593E504@bigpond.com> <007401c2c6b1$e2878b00$77c1adcb@michaela> <020b01c2c6c0$2d7d92e0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:33:32 -0800 Status: RO Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: > > I also have a big ribcage (small boned everywhere else, so can't blame my > weight problems on being big boned!) and a wide space between my very > average size breasts. Getting cleavage is far from easy! > I have, although not particularly large, a very oval, flat ribcage. I also have a wide space between my fairly substantial breasts. I'm a D cup, but you wouldn't think it to see me lying on my back! Getting cleavage for me does require some work, but mostly in terms of supporting said fairly substantial weight and pushing it inwards and up when gravity seems to dictate the opposite. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 17:44:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26545 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:44:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SMiYtv017562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:44:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SMiY9w001049; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:44:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SMhC9w029836 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:43:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h0SMh7o16369 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:43:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E37077F.BD822F68@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:43:11 -0500 Status: RO Without a car it's probably not easy to shop JoMar - I was just there this afternoon. Love that place but I can never get out in less than an hour, usually two. Kate Lady Mariota wrote: > Has anyone suggested JoMar to you. It is fabric heaven, most for under $5.00 > (closer to $1.00) It is a definite place to see and stay a while. I don't > have the address handy but you can get it off yahoo maps. > Let me know if you have any problems, > Lady Mariota > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:18 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Philadelphia... > > > I'll be in Philadelphia in mid-March. I'm wondering if there are any > > must-see locations. I absolutely intend to go to the Mutter Museum, > > and i've already been to Independence Hall. > > > > Museums, galleries, collections? Restaurants (my daughter is a > > vegetarian)? Shopping for costuming and/or food specialties (without > > a car)? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Anahita > > living in the San Francisco Bay Area > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 17:44:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26554 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:44:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SMi8tv017492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SMi09w000580; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SMh19w029782 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9G001TY4FM3Z@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:43:00 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030128142826.00ceccf0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <022e01c2c684$ef1c7ec0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:28:56 -0800 Status: RO >Can anyone recommend other web sites with good vintage knitting patterns, >specifically from the late 20s/early 30s? Other books or sources? E-bay is usually full of originals of these books. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 18:33:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27032 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:33:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNWDtv022057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:32:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNWC9w028623; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:32:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNVY9w028298 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18dfCY-0006VV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:31:34 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] slashing Message-ID: <000001c2c725$66eef950$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:31:34 -0700 Status: RO Could you point us to some portraits of what you are trying to achieve? I am also confused by your wording.: Speciffically: ".... It will go on one of those brocades.." There are what I would call slashing techniques that would show fabric underneath that aren't panned, but the 'puffs' are faked underneath-like here: http://www.saragrace.net/images/puff_close.jpg Or also slashed, but not panned, probably some show through ..http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/beham/barthel/ottheinr.jpg Both pictures above, the material is slashed. I think you can see the raw edges in the second and I know that I fray checked my sleeve slashing. So you will have to address fraying, but it doesn't mean the raw edges won't show. But I would agree with Kayta that you won't see much through pinking. Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of mabse@attbi.com >Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] slashing > >Thanks all for your help on my question about Greek costumes. I have a better >idea of what needs to be done now. > >On to another period though. I want to do some slashing for my elizabethan >costume. I got some black silk and some copper silk and I want to slash the >black and have the copper show through. It will go on one of those brocades you >can get on e-bay. It is a copper and black acetate brocade with a sort of >celtic cross pattern. I would like to see some examples of what it looks like >though. I have my own ideas of how to do it, but I am not sure if they are >correct. If anyone has any pictures to which they can point me I would >appreciate it. thanks, maryann >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 18:37:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27063 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:36:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNc1tv022541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNc09w001914; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNbH9w001513 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18dfI5-0007ad-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:37:17 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Munich catalog - Blackwork and Tassles-confused about picture Message-ID: <000101c2c726$335665a0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:37:18 -0700 Status: RO I am confused about what I am looking at in the pictures of the (men's?) shirt. Is the picture on the right a close up of the neck of the one on the left? If so, what is the square piece that looks like a flap at the top? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 18:44:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27094 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:44:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNi3tv023185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNi19w005102; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNhP9w004685 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:43:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18dfPE-0007KR-00; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:44:40 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 18dfNy-0006c4-00; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:43:22 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030128142826.00ceccf0@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:43:22 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Next week I am going to be in Vienna, Austria. I am going to a 19th Century dance week, with 2 grand balls, one Biedermeier (1815-1848) and the other Strauss (2nd half 19th c). Still haven't started my Biedermeier dress :~P , I do hope I can get it done in time. I have a lovely blue and gold shot taffeta to work with. Now if only I could figure out how to gel my hair into huge bow loops. I am almost finished with the 2 1860 gowns I am making for the Austrian dance teacher and her assistant. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions of where to shop (cloth trims antiques) or if there are any museums with costumes to recommend. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 18:46:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27102 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:46:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNk3tv023427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNk19w006249; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNj89w005796 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:45:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9G00AUW7B7PX@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:45:08 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] slashing In-reply-to: <000001c2c725$66eef950$6601a8c0@mycomputer> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030128153545.04dd1cc0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:45:03 -0800 Status: RO >There are what I would call slashing techniques that would show fabric >underneath that aren't panned, but the 'puffs' are faked underneath-like >here: http://www.saragrace.net/images/puff_close.jpg I would have called this example paned, as my Germans have this done in actual panes, lined and finished off. >Or also slashed, but not panned, probably some show through >..http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/beham/barthel/ottheinr.jpg Looks like slashes in leather. >Both pictures above, the material is slashed. I think you can see the >raw edges in the second and I know that I fray checked my sleeve >slashing. So you will have to address fraying, but it doesn't mean the >raw edges won't show. > >But I would agree with Kayta that you won't see much through pinking. Modern Fiber Arts folks have done a lot with pinking and slashing lately. Some manufacture a surface that looks like a chenille bedspread, by putting several layers of fabric together, slashing thru all but the backing, then washing the result so the little thread ends (bias cut) frazz out in rows. All the colours of all the under-layers combine in the frazzing, and the total effect is kind of pretty. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 18:47:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27119 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:47:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNm2tv023613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNm19w007310; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNlr9w007224 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18dfSK-0000uV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:47:52 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Munich catalog - Blackwork and Tassles-figured it out Message-ID: <000201c2c727$ae0fd3c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000101c2c726$335665a0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:47:53 -0700 Status: RO I see now that it is the collar opened and folded down! Duh Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf >Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:37 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Munich catalog - Blackwork and Tassles-confused about >picture > >I am confused about what I am looking at in the pictures of the (men's?) >shirt. Is the picture on the right a close up of the neck of the one on >the left? If so, what is the square piece that looks like a flap at the >top? > >Sg > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 18:50:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27160 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:50:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNnPtv023725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:49:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNnO9w008013; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:49:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNmK9w007420 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:48:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <200301282348140010087npae>; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:48:14 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030128154418.00a1d1b0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] slashing In-Reply-To: <000001c2c725$66eef950$6601a8c0@mycomputer> References: <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:46:31 -0800 Status: RO thanks, these two pictures really clarify things. I think that if you pull enough fabric through the slash, you could just fraycheck the slash because you wouldn't be able to see it. I had a much different concept of what this all meant. maryann At 04:31 PM 1/28/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Could you point us to some portraits of what you are trying to achieve? >I am also confused by your wording.: > >Speciffically: ".... It will go on one of those brocades.." > >There are what I would call slashing techniques that would show fabric >underneath that aren't panned, but the 'puffs' are faked underneath-like >here: http://www.saragrace.net/images/puff_close.jpg > > >Or also slashed, but not panned, probably some show through >..http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/beham/barthel/ottheinr.jpg > >Both pictures above, the material is slashed. I think you can see the >raw edges in the second and I know that I fray checked my sleeve >slashing. So you will have to address fraying, but it doesn't mean the >raw edges won't show. > >But I would agree with Kayta that you won't see much through pinking. > > > > > > > > >Sg > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On > >Behalf Of mabse@attbi.com > >Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 AM > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Subject: [h-cost] slashing > > > >Thanks all for your help on my question about Greek costumes. I have a >better > >idea of what needs to be done now. > > > >On to another period though. I want to do some slashing for my >elizabethan > >costume. I got some black silk and some copper silk and I want to >slash the > >black and have the copper show through. It will go on one of those >brocades you > >can get on e-bay. It is a copper and black acetate brocade with a sort >of > >celtic cross pattern. I would like to see some examples of what it >looks like > >though. I have my own ideas of how to do it, but I am not sure if they >are > >correct. If anyone has any pictures to which they can point me I >would > >appreciate it. thanks, maryann > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 18:53:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27189 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:53:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNr1tv024092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNr19w009810; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0SNqY9w009569 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:52:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9G0008R7NLUM@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:52:34 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Munich catalog - Blackwork and Tassles-confused about picture In-reply-to: <000101c2c726$335665a0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030128154533.04dc19d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:52:31 -0800 Status: RO >I am confused about what I am looking at in the pictures of the (men's?) >shirt. Is the picture on the right a close up of the neck of the one on >the left? If so, what is the square piece that looks like a flap at the >top? Without seeing the picture, I think you may be seeing the top corners of the sleeves. If you make a shirt by making the body as a cylinder with the arms coming straight out from the sides, then smock the top to make the shoulders and neck (no shoulder seams, just smock across the whole top), you get the top corner of the sleeve showing as two triangles peeking out of a wide neckline right over each shoulder. You also get a little ruffle at the top, right above the smocking, which may be the beginning of the later ruff. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 20:08:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27701 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:08:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T1A4tv029737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T1A19w014551; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T19c9w014389 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:09:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-251-92.s92.tnt2.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.251.92] helo=rcn.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18dgjQ-00078I-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:09:37 -0500 Message-ID: <3E3729E1.F6F72D4F@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <20030128234801.7302.9351.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: where to go in Vienna Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:09:53 -0500 Status: RO > From: Katy Bishop > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna > Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > > Next week I am going to be in Vienna, Austria. I am going to a 19th > Century dance week, with 2 grand balls, one Biedermeier (1815-1848) and > the other Strauss (2nd half 19th c). Still haven't started my > Biedermeier dress :~P , I do hope I can get it done in time. I have a > lovely blue and gold shot taffeta to work with. Now if only I could > figure out how to gel my hair into huge bow loops. This is for your 1830's outfit, right? Something like an Apollo knot? Sometimes braids were dressed like the smooth loops often shown. Pull your back hair to your crown. Braid it in several braids, possibly along with some soft wire (bend the end in so your scalp is safe from it). I think armature wire might work, but try stopping by a beauty supply store, because if they have something to hold the hair in place, that would be best for the effect and for the hair. Loop the braids in an 1830's madness sort of way. The front hair can also be braided or frizzed all to heck & brought up to the high bun/looped tentacles thing. Add wire-edged ribbons in excessive profusion to the upper loops Add artificial flowers &/or decorative insects, animals, birds. > I am almost finished > with the 2 1860 gowns I am making for the Austrian dance teacher and her > assistant. I hope to see pictures of the gowns at some point. You do such lovely work. > I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions of where to shop (cloth > trims antiques) or if there are any museums with costumes to recommend. > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian I don't know from Vienna, but have one bite of pastry for me--you & Ben will be dancing enough to take the calories back off. Ann in CT _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 20:48:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28016 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:48:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T1o4tv002229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:50:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T1o09w028779; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20201.mail.yahoo.com (web20201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0T1n29w028492 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:49:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030129014902.91125.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:49:02 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:49:02 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Katy Bishop wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions of > where to shop (cloth trims antiques) or if there are > any museums with costumes to recommend. Well, if it were me going to Vienna (you are so lucky!) I would make my first stop the Kunsthistorisches Museum. I don't think they have costumes, but they do have lots of art. Currently they have three exhibitions running, the most relevant of which is probably... "THESAURI POLONIAE - The Treasures of Poland This exhibition will be the first survey of Polish treasures dating from the Late Middle Ages to the period of the Enlightenment. Artworks on loan from, for example, the National Museums in Warsaw and Gdansk, and the Ecclesiastical Treasury, and the Historical Museum in Cracow will be on show." Of course there are many works of art from the 15th century onwards - much more than they show in their online collections: Personally, I would devour every Venetian portrait in the place - there are lots of Palma Vecchio paintings there. I would love to be in your shoes. :) Have fun, stay safe, Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 20:52:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28050 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:52:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T1r0tv002474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T1r09w029795; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T1qR9w029630 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:52:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9G00F8ZD6XHE@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:52:25 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] slashing In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20030128154418.00a1d1b0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030128174840.04df9d20@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <000001c2c725$66eef950$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:50:18 -0800 Status: RO >thanks, these two pictures really clarify things. I think that if you >pull enough fabric through the slash, you could just fraycheck the slash >because you wouldn't be able to see it. I had a much different concept of >what this all meant. maryann Don't forget to only slash on the bias. That way the slashed edges never really ravel, they only frazz a little. I was in the Metropolitan Museum, looking at a Bronzino painting, and the little frazzing that this produces showed in the painting. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 21:21:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28227 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:21:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T2N1tv004286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T2N09w010862; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T2Mo9w010788 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:22:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m102.in-tch.com [216.166.191.102]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0T265r16492 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:06:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E373B26.7DF61817@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] slashing References: <000001c2c725$66eef950$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20030128174840.04df9d20@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:23:34 -0700 Status: RO Uh....there are lots of period examples of stuff slashed on-grain. Of course, the ones I've seen that fit into *that* category have the edges finished--I've seen buttonhole stitch used, or narrow braid, or the raw edges tucked in, just a tidge, and sewed to an interlining. --sue Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >thanks, these two pictures really clarify things. I think that if you > >pull enough fabric through the slash, you could just fraycheck the slash > >because you wouldn't be able to see it. I had a much different concept of > >what this all meant. maryann > > Don't forget to only slash on the bias. That way the slashed edges never > really ravel, they only frazz a little. I was in the Metropolitan Museum, > looking at a Bronzino painting, and the little frazzing that this produces > showed in the painting. > > Kayta > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 21:51:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28345 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:51:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T2q1tv005996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T2q09w021436; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T2pP9w021256 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:51:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9G00BFIFXOEG@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:51:25 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] slashing In-reply-to: <3E373B26.7DF61817@in-tch.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030128184524.04ddd100@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <000001c2c725$66eef950$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20030128174840.04df9d20@mail.frys.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:47:34 -0800 Status: RO >Uh....there are lots of period examples of stuff slashed on-grain. Of >course, the ones I've seen that fit into *that* category have the edges >finished--I've seen buttonhole stitch used, or narrow braid, or the raw >edges tucked in, just a tidge, and sewed to an interlining. > > >thanks, these two pictures really clarify things. I think that if you > > >pull enough fabric through the slash, you could just fraycheck the slash > > >because you wouldn't be able to see it. I had a much different concept of > > >what this all meant. maryann > > > > Don't forget to only slash on the bias. That way the slashed edges never > > really ravel, they only frazz a little. I was in the Metropolitan Museum, > > looking at a Bronzino painting, and the little frazzing that this produces > > showed in the painting. I guess I meant where the slashing is the final step. I'm not sure what I'd call the technique where the slashed edges were finished off or turned under. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 22:16:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28506 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:16:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T3I1tv007492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T3I09w000686; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T3H09w000264 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0395.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.217.140] helo=[209.179.250.4]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18diig-0000Kx-00 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:16:59 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] OT? Modern Fleece Fabric Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:19:05 -0800 Status: RO I'm apologize for asking this here, but i'm only on two costume lists... Anyway, does thin synthetic "fleece" tend to shrink? I have some cuts of the fairly thin cheaper "fleece" that i bought on sale a year ago and would like to sew them into jackets for a February costumed camping event. I generally wash all the fabric i sew before i cut it. But, i now don't live too close to a laundromat, and i only go every couple weeks. But my limited experience with modern synthetic "fleece" stuff has varied. The real stuff, from Malden Mills, has behaved well, with years of hard use. But the thinner cheaper stuff pilled badly and got "hard" after just a few washings (i don't use additives to my wash, no softeners, just natural biodegradable stuff). So the less i wash it, the better it seems to me. Thus, if i can bypass pre-washing before cutting, that will mean one less wash cycle to cause it to pill. Is this advisable, or should i just haul it off to the laundromat? Also, sorry for what must have seemed like a redundant Philadelphia question, but the previous thread appeared to me to be mostly about Jo-Mar, and while they sound like a wonderful store (or three), i'm more interested in museums and the like. So if anyone has any to recommend, or regional food specialties, please let me know. Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 22:17:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28515 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:17:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T3GOux007343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T3519w026030; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0T34i9w025839 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-120-93-195.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.120.93.195 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2003 03:04:43 -0000 Message-ID: <00b501c2c743$2bcd3440$c35d7843@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laceys costume wigs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C2C700.1D7576C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:04:42 -0800 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C2C700.1D7576C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lacey's just updated their catalog, and it now includes photos of most = of their wigs and is much more comprehensive. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes=20 http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust=20 upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marionetta@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 6:22 PM Subject: [h-cost] Laceys costume wigs I love Lacey's! Most of the costume wigs I've bought have, even when = purchased thru another source, turned out when I saw their tags to have = come from Lacey's. The point about abruptness is dead on, but don't let = their phone manner fool you, they have great service and great products. = Unfortunately the catalog isn't the greatest, it's all rather cartoon-y = line drawings, and therefore somewhat hard judge exactly what the wig = will look like. Ask folks who've ordered from them for suggestions as = to which style will be right for your use. And if there is a choice = chose the pricier version.=20 The alonge and deluxe alonge are among my favorites, good for = 17th/18th c depending on how you style it. I've combed out the top of = one of these and gotten a really nice late 1700s look - the giant pouf = on top with long curls hanging down a la "Jefferson in Paris."=20 Another good wig co. is Garland wigs, they have a website with actual = photos: garlandbty.com NO www but if I remember correctly you can't order online. The Mae wig is a = nice versatile one that you can style a multitude of ways. Happy hair shopping. Cheers, Loren ------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C2C700.1D7576C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lacey's just updated their = catalog, and it now=20 includes photos of most of their wigs and is much more=20 comprehensive.
 
angela
+++++
Angela F. = Lazear
Cabbage Rose=20 Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostume= s.com
"Be=20 not afraid of greatness; some are born great,
some achieve greatness, = and=20 some have greatness thrust
upon them."
Twelfth-Night, II, v - W.=20 Shakespeare
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Marionetta@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 = 6:22=20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Laceys = costume=20 wigs


I love Lacey's!  Most of the costume = wigs I've=20 bought have, even when purchased thru another source, turned out when = I saw=20 their tags to have come from Lacey's.  The point about abruptness = is dead=20 on, but don't let their phone manner fool you, they have great service = and=20 great products.  Unfortunately the catalog isn't the greatest, = it's all=20 rather cartoon-y line drawings, and therefore somewhat hard judge = exactly what=20 the wig will look like.  Ask folks who've ordered from them for=20 suggestions as to which style will be right for your use.  And if = there=20 is a choice chose the pricier version.

The alonge and deluxe = alonge=20 are among my favorites, good for 17th/18th c depending on how you = style=20 it.  I've combed out the top of one of these and gotten a really = nice=20 late 1700s look - the giant pouf on top with long curls hanging down a = la=20 "Jefferson in Paris."

Another good wig co. is Garland wigs, = they have=20 a website with actual photos: = garlandbty.com      NO=20 www
but if I remember correctly you can't order online.  The = Mae wig=20 is a nice versatile one that you can style a multitude of = ways.

Happy=20 hair shopping.  Cheers,

Loren=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C2C700.1D7576C0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Jan 28 23:11:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28796 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:11:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T4D2tv010512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T4D19w019866; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from axion-it.net (mail.closecall.com [209.183.229.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T4CO9w019619 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:12:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [65.133.99.199] (account suellen@closecall.com HELO sue) by axion-it.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.5) with ESMTP id 6416889 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:12:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c2c74d$213c3bc0$bc76fea9@stargate.net> From: "Sue" To: References: <00b501c2c743$2bcd3440$c35d7843@angelap3a8d978> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laceys costume wigs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2C723.36FE1840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:15:58 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2C723.36FE1840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I carry wigs also and have pictures. Cordially, Sue Shatto 401 Fairview Ave. Frederick, MD 21701 http://www.VictorianMillinery.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Cabbage Rose=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laceys costume wigs Lacey's just updated their catalog, and it now includes photos of most = of their wigs and is much more comprehensive. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes=20 http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust=20 upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marionetta@aol.com=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 6:22 PM Subject: [h-cost] Laceys costume wigs I love Lacey's! Most of the costume wigs I've bought have, even = when purchased thru another source, turned out when I saw their tags to = have come from Lacey's. The point about abruptness is dead on, but = don't let their phone manner fool you, they have great service and great = products. Unfortunately the catalog isn't the greatest, it's all rather = cartoon-y line drawings, and therefore somewhat hard judge exactly what = the wig will look like. Ask folks who've ordered from them for = suggestions as to which style will be right for your use. And if there = is a choice chose the pricier version.=20 The alonge and deluxe alonge are among my favorites, good for = 17th/18th c depending on how you style it. I've combed out the top of = one of these and gotten a really nice late 1700s look - the giant pouf = on top with long curls hanging down a la "Jefferson in Paris."=20 Another good wig co. is Garland wigs, they have a website with = actual photos: garlandbty.com NO www but if I remember correctly you can't order online. The Mae wig is = a nice versatile one that you can style a multitude of ways. Happy hair shopping. Cheers, Loren=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2C723.36FE1840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I carry wigs also and have=20 pictures.
Cordially,
Sue Shatto
401 Fairview = Ave.
Frederick, MD 21701
http://www.VictorianMillinery.= com
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Cabbage Rose
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 = 10:04=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Laceys = costume=20 wigs

Lacey's just updated their = catalog, and it=20 now includes photos of most of their wigs and is much more=20 comprehensive.
 
angela
+++++
Angela F. = Lazear
Cabbage Rose=20 Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostume= s.com
"Be=20 not afraid of greatness; some are born great,
some achieve = greatness, and=20 some have greatness thrust
upon them."
Twelfth-Night, II, v - = W.=20 Shakespeare
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Marionetta@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 27, = 2003 6:22=20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Laceys = costume=20 wigs


I love Lacey's!  Most of the costume = wigs I've=20 bought have, even when purchased thru another source, turned out = when I saw=20 their tags to have come from Lacey's.  The point about = abruptness is=20 dead on, but don't let their phone manner fool you, they have great = service=20 and great products.  Unfortunately the catalog isn't the = greatest, it's=20 all rather cartoon-y line drawings, and therefore somewhat hard = judge=20 exactly what the wig will look like.  Ask folks who've ordered = from=20 them for suggestions as to which style will be right for your = use.  And=20 if there is a choice chose the pricier version.

The alonge = and=20 deluxe alonge are among my favorites, good for 17th/18th c depending = on how=20 you style it.  I've combed out the top of one of these and = gotten a=20 really nice late 1700s look - the giant pouf on top with long curls = hanging=20 down a la "Jefferson in Paris."

Another good wig co. is = Garland=20 wigs, they have a website with actual photos:=20 garlandbty.com      NO www
but if I = remember=20 correctly you can't order online.  The Mae wig is a nice = versatile one=20 that you can style a multitude of ways.

Happy hair = shopping. =20 Cheers,

Loren =
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2C723.36FE1840-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 00:21:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29141 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:21:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T5N5tv014375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:23:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T5N0E3013675; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f84.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T5M4E3013447 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:22:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:17:41 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:17:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT? Modern Fleece Fabric Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2003 05:17:41.0187 (UTC) FILETIME=[BF169130:01C2C755] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:17:40 -0800 Status: RO >Anyway, does thin synthetic "fleece" tend to shrink? > I don't know how thin you're talking, but I haven't noticed any shrinkage in the fleece robes I made for christmas gifts last year. I bought the stuff that was on sale at JoAnn's for 3.99yd. Our robes get washed regularly in the machines and while they do pill a bit, they don't change shape or size. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 00:27:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29176 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:27:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T5T1tv014637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T5T0E3015608; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T5SrE3015526 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:28:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla_r1a254.in-tch.com [66.62.107.54]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0T5C5r28320 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:12:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E3766BD.5B783F63@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT? Modern Fleece Fabric References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:29:33 -0700 Status: RO I've got some of the "older" stuff (the real, honest-to-murgatroyd "polar fleece") and some thinner, newer stuff, although it's not flimsy. They both seem to be handling being thrown in the washer okay. I don't dry them in the dryer, though--just hang them over the curtain rod and air dry them. If I were you, I'd probably wash it just to get the store gunk and dust from it. My only beef with my fleecy stuff is that it's a cat magnet--and they leave hairs behind . --sue lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: > > I'm apologize for asking this here, but i'm only on two costume lists... > > Anyway, does thin synthetic "fleece" tend to shrink? > > I have some cuts of the fairly thin cheaper "fleece" that i bought on > sale a year ago and would like to sew them into jackets for a > February costumed camping event. > > I generally wash all the fabric i sew before i cut it. But, i now > don't live too close to a laundromat, and i only go every couple > weeks. > > But my limited experience with modern synthetic "fleece" stuff has > varied. The real stuff, from Malden Mills, has behaved well, with > years of hard use. > > But the thinner cheaper stuff pilled badly and got "hard" after just > a few washings (i don't use additives to my wash, no softeners, just > natural biodegradable stuff). So the less i wash it, the better it > seems to me. > > Thus, if i can bypass pre-washing before cutting, that will mean one > less wash cycle to cause it to pill. Is this advisable, or should i > just haul it off to the laundromat? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 00:50:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29290 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:50:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T5q4tv015723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T5q0E3022944; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T5pQE3022780 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 22:51:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from post (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id h0T5oG724972 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:50:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000b01c2c75a$51f526c0$873c6a8d@its.mcw.edu.aghlab> From: "mls" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Philadelphia sights Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:50:25 -0600 Status: RO Apparently, the armour collection (formally, the Von Kienbusch Collection) is at the Philadelphia Art Museum. I've heard that it is "Quite a nice collection - the 2nd largest in America. As I remember, the rest of the museum's not bad either." have fun! AND! check out the open air food market. It is a hoot.....and for us cooks seriously makes you want a kitchen! (live crabs in summer, beautiful produce, butcher cured bacon......) ....marie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 01:53:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29482 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:53:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T6t4tv017929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T6t0fm010999; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T6sifm010926 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id XAA20949 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:17:31 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200301290717.XAA20949@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: where to go in Vienna Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:17:31 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Catelli wrote: >Katy Bishop > > Next week I am going to be in Vienna, Austria. I am going to a 19th > > Century dance week, with 2 grand balls, one Biedermeier (1815-1848) and > > the other Strauss (2nd half 19th c). Still haven't started my > > Biedermeier dress :~P , I do hope I can get it done in time. I have a > > lovely blue and gold shot taffeta to work with. Now if only I could > > figure out how to gel my hair into huge bow loops. > > This is for your 1830's outfit, right? Something like an Apollo knot? > Sometimes braids were dressed like the smooth loops often shown. > Pull your back hair to your crown. > Braid it in several braids, possibly along with some soft wire (bend the end in so your scalp > is safe from it). I think armature wire might work, but try stopping by a beauty supply store, > because if they have something to hold the hair in place, that would be best for the effect and > for the hair. Plain gelatin. No kidding. Buy plain gelatin powder and reconstitute it with hot water. Apply it to the hair with a metal-toothed comb (or at least one that won't melt from the heat). Wrap the hair around a form (either a super big roller or a wired ribbon loop) and pin in place. Go on to the next loop. The gelatin will set up as it dries. Remove your forms/rollers. Arrange hair as desired, without deforming your loops. Your hair won't be soft and flowing, but that doesn't appear to have been the point of this particular hairstyle. Done correctly, it will _not_ move until you soak the gelatin out with hot water. The bonus is that this is a great protein treatment and will make your hair stronger. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 03:56:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05436 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 03:56:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T8w3tv021215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0T8w0fm012885; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40010.mail.yahoo.com (web40010.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0T8vpfm012843 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:57:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030129085746.62730.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.246.61] by web40010.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:57:46 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030128234801.7302.9351.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1754 - 13 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:57:46 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Hi Bjarne > Oh what a shame. This is two early. > I am going over there, but in the start of april. I would have loved to go > and watch you! > Bjarne who has begun to sew together my embroidered suit. Buttons i make > buttons these days. Well if the group takes any photos I'll be sure to send them along to the group. Failing that if anyone is around at the end of August (week before & the weekend of the august bank holiday) we'll be up at Sulgrave Manor doing more of the same and lots lots more! Rachel ===== Rachel Tudor Bibliography http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 06:05:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09517 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:05:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TB73tv025491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TB71fm011696; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TB6Kfm011541 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0282C110BD4 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:54:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 252FE110BE5 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:54:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00ef01c2c784$d7cb7180$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: <000001c2c725$66eef950$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20030128174840.04df9d20@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20030128184524.04ddd100@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] slashing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:54:48 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] slashing > > >Uh....there are lots of period examples of stuff slashed on-grain. Of > >course, the ones I've seen that fit into *that* category have the edges > >finished--I've seen buttonhole stitch used, or narrow braid, or the raw > >edges tucked in, just a tidge, and sewed to an interlining. If the OP is referring to the fabric I think she is ( did you buy it from fabricmasterpieces by any chance?). it is lovely stuff, but I really wouldn't recommend slashing it. It frays like mad, so much so that it might even be difficult to get the edges finished on tiny cuts before they frayed. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 06:49:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09641 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:49:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TBo1tv026530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TBo0fm021579; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt4.ihug.co.nz (grunt4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TBn5fm021371 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from p12-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.76] by grunt4.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18dqiF-0008Q2-00; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:49:03 +1300 Message-ID: <009301c2c78c$68d9faa0$4cccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: chicago, tights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:48:57 +1300 Status: RO > This sounds like a book I have been looking for for a long time. I > borrowed one and used it years ago, gave it back to the owner, lost > touch with her, and then forgot the title. Could you please send all > the citation info for your ballet book! The one I used had been > published in England. Justa quick note.. I wish I'd checked my eamail earlier, I have a brand new sewing room which is actually seperate fromt he house so I'll have to get the book tomorrow. It's in really good condition concidering the age and that it hs a paper dust jacket;) I will get every detail tomorrow in terms of title, author, publisher etc. It has patterns for national costumes, repairing shoes.... knitting things from head to toe, circle skirts.... absolute gold mine for sewing:) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume Very soon going to have to splash out for real web space.. too many costumes now, and need to have a different format for the saem reason! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 06:52:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09658 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:52:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TBr1tv026622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TBr0fm022242; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TBqofm022206 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:52:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from p12-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.76] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18dqls-00043v-00; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:52:49 +1300 Message-ID: <009801c2c78c$f0fe1f10$4cccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030126.161804.-497543.1.catpurson@juno.com> <3E36AB9B.9593E504@bigpond.com> <007401c2c6b1$e2878b00$77c1adcb@michaela> <020b01c2c6c0$2d7d92e0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question: Spiral lacing - which direction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:52:46 +1300 Status: RO > I read something one time (probably apocryphal) about when they costuming > Miss Leigh for the movie. Laurence Olivier was watching as they taped and > taped to get her some cleavage. After a while, he commented, "And all this > time, I thought they were perfectly lovely." So it was her:) I feel so much better. Hate it when I lose a source... > I also have a big ribcage (small boned everywhere else, so can't blame my > weight problems on being big boned!) and a wide space between my very > average size breasts. Getting cleavage is far from easy! Gosh, I've always felt so inadequate because of this.. no one I've met has had the same ... challenge. Not problem, not difficulty.. challenge;) And there have been more "me too's" to this post as well:) I feel bonded;) And I also now don't feel so under endowed, knowing that others with larger busts than me also have the problem:) I'm an A cup mind you;) 34-36" depending on the brand (yeah, you'd thinkk with actual measurements there'd be better sizing). And flatten away to nothing in a bathing suit. So guess who doesn't go swimming anymore;) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 08:53:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10326 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:53:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TDsjtv000811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:54:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TDsBfm022397; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:54:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TDrSfm022151 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:53:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0TDrRMw024871 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:53:27 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns In-Reply-To: <20030128.150643.-242154227.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:53:27 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Oh, yes... I read them all in my early teens, and re-read them regularly. Haven't seen the Ian Carmichael series for years, though... I doubt my local video store carries them. Maybe that could be on my birthday wish list! I really like the ones with Edward Petherbridge; he does look like the image in my head of what Lord Peter should look like. It's a pity they didn't see fit to remake all the books with him as the lead! And yes, you're right, funny how the fashion sensibilities of the 70s crept into so many period dramas of the time. I think they did a better job with the Petherbridge series, though... The Shakespeare Walk sounds wonderful -- I'm incredibly envious! Cheers, Mara On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Ah! Another Lord Peter fan! I am, in fact watching a vintage Ian > Carmichael Lord Peter even as I type. I like both Wimseys, they are quite > different but each bring out aspects of the character. In a fashion note, > it's interesting to look back on the ones made in the early 1970's and > see how much the fashion aesthetic of the time effected the way 1920's > fashion was depicted. I had the pleasure of having Edward Petherbridge > (most recent Lord Peter) as a guide for the Shakespeare Walk in London a > couple of years ago, he's very good with a sonnet! > > > Karen > > > On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:56:59 -0500 (EST) Kevin & Mara Riley > writes: > > Folks, > > > > I was just watching the Lord Peter Wimsey DVDs (with Edward > > Petherbridge) > > that my DH got me for Christmas, and have gotten a wild hair about > > knitting some of the caps etc. that I saw various people wearing. > > > > There _used_ to be a web site up for vintage knitting patterns, but > > I went > > searching for it today, and it's been taken down (temporarily, > > anyway). > > Can anyone recommend other web sites with good vintage knitting > > patterns, > > specifically from the late 20s/early 30s? Other books or sources? > > > > Thanks, > > Mara > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 09:01:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10366 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:01:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TE3Ftv001299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:03:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TE27fm024893; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TE19fm024559 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18dsm4-0006Hf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:01:08 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] slashing Message-ID: <000001c2c79e$e38ec520$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030128154418.00a1d1b0@mail.attbi.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:01:14 -0700 Status: RO When I first joined this list there was a discussion about slashing techniques. You might want to search the archives. There were lots of good tips, and one of them was that if you really want fabric to show through you should 'fake' the puffs (by this I mean an inner piece of fabric sandwiched by the lining and outer fashion fabric (FF)', because your movement will usually pull the fabric back out. Probably not necessary for open elbows, or the point where the sleeve attaches to the garment if you have plenty of undersleeve. I seem to remember someone saying that there was evidence that the puffs you see on some articles of clothing were actually 'faked' back then. I couldn't find an online image to show you, but an example is an engraving done by Will Rogers 1593-95 in QEWU on page 47. Also, test your fabric if you use something to stabilize the slash (like fraycheck, or more period stuff like wax). You can't tell most of the time that it is there if you put it on in light coats. You have to touch the velvet in the dress in the picture I showed you to know that there is fray check on the slash-otherwise you can't tell. Also experiment with how much fray check. I only used one 'coat' on one sleeve and two on the other. The latter is holding up much better. Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of MaryAnn Jones >Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:47 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: RE: [h-cost] slashing > >thanks, these two pictures really clarify things. I think that if you pull >enough fabric through the slash, you could just fraycheck the slash because >you wouldn't be able to see it. I had a much different concept of what >this all meant. maryann > >At 04:31 PM 1/28/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>Could you point us to some portraits of what you are trying to achieve? >>I am also confused by your wording.: >> >>Speciffically: ".... It will go on one of those brocades.." >> >>There are what I would call slashing techniques that would show fabric >>underneath that aren't panned, but the 'puffs' are faked underneath-like >>here: http://www.saragrace.net/images/puff_close.jpg >> >> >>Or also slashed, but not panned, probably some show through >>..http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/beham/barthel/ottheinr.jpg >> >>Both pictures above, the material is slashed. I think you can see the >>raw edges in the second and I know that I fray checked my sleeve >>slashing. So you will have to address fraying, but it doesn't mean the >>raw edges won't show. >> >>But I would agree with Kayta that you won't see much through pinking. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Sg >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >> >Behalf Of mabse@attbi.com >> >Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 AM >> >To: h-costume@indra.com >> >Subject: [h-cost] slashing >> > >> >Thanks all for your help on my question about Greek costumes. I have a >>better >> >idea of what needs to be done now. >> > >> >On to another period though. I want to do some slashing for my >>elizabethan >> >costume. I got some black silk and some copper silk and I want to >>slash the >> >black and have the copper show through. It will go on one of those >>brocades you >> >can get on e-bay. It is a copper and black acetate brocade with a sort >>of >> >celtic cross pattern. I would like to see some examples of what it >>looks like >> >though. I have my own ideas of how to do it, but I am not sure if they >>are >> >correct. If anyone has any pictures to which they can point me I >>would >> >appreciate it. thanks, maryann >> >_______________________________________________ >> >h-costume mailing list >> >h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 09:29:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10593 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:29:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TET2tv002687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TET15D003614; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TESk5D003490 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:28:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0TESjp25131.; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:28:45 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:28:45 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0TESk5D003490 Subject: [h-cost] Re: [h-cost]Wimsey, was Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:28:16 +0000 Status: RO Mara wrote: >I really like the ones with Edward Petherbridge; he does look like the >image in my head of what Lord Peter should look like. It's a pity they >didn't see fit to remake all the books with him as the lead! Yes, I liked the Petherbridge version of Lord Peter Wimsey best too. Did you know that Dorothy Sayers once met a man who she thought looked just like her idea of Lord Peter. When her diaries were edited for publication by a friend after her death, it turned out that she had recorded seeing the same man years earlier, before she created the character, but her conscious mind had forgotten him! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 09:36:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10682 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:36:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TEb1tv003133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TEb05D006350; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TEa75D005995 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.110] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A4F57B90102; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:28:05 -0500 Message-ID: <009301c2c7a4$3e54bd20$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <20030127.155550.-242154227.20.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks for the Vienna info! Also: wig examination offer (heh), men's Frocks in Austria?, ToaP :) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:39:33 -0500 Status: RO I am coming in late on the question of the Lacey Company, but I want to give my own comment. I have been using them in my business foe the last 25 years, and they are the best. They carry the full gamut of quality and variety. If you tell them your price range, they will have the style and color and quality immediately at hand weather it is a theatre or streetwise item needed. Elliot never misses a name ,company or identity. If you have ordered once, all you have to provide is your name and he says "you've got it" and hangs up . Service is extraordinary. I live in western PA and have even had my wig in 24 hours, and always within three days. Kathleen, who is not on a ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thanks for the Vienna info! Also: wig examination offer (heh), men's Frocks in Austria?, ToaP :) > > On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:21:46 -0500 michiko writes: > > > Also, got this info off the Lacy Wig site you provided (thanks > > Cathy!) and just wanted to mention that since I'm in NYC (albeit not > > walking distance from their location) that if anyone from outside of > > NYC needed me to go in and have a look at the wigs for them (i.e. if > > the Lacey staff are being too terse and Noo Yawkerish for your > > tastes :), let me know! I'm curious about their wigs now (obsessed with > > > Vienna research now, though I may just be doing up my own hair) and > > will probably go in to check it out in the next few weeks and can > > get you info at the same time, if you need it. > > I am very interested in this company and would love to know if their > quality is good. If you could take a bit of an exploratory expedition > there just to see what they are like, I'd love to hear a report. > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 09:43:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10754 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:43:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TEi2tv003718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TEi15D009111; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TEhH5D008823 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:43:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beb7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.183]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5999C5EE214 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:43:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001901c2c7a4$dcc38400$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:44:00 +0100 Status: RO Dear Kathy. Oh you must go and se Castle Schönbrunn. I dont think they have any costumes to show, but my.......... there are a lot of beautifull portraits and interiors to see. It is the home of the Habsburg family. Marie Antoinette was born there. Wish i could go with you, Wienna is high on my list two. There is a charming old Coffe Shop. I think it is more than 200 years old. Dont miss to have your Tea or Coffe there. Wish you a wonderfull trip!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:43 AM Subject: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna > > Next week I am going to be in Vienna, Austria. I am going to a 19th > Century dance week, with 2 grand balls, one Biedermeier (1815-1848) and > the other Strauss (2nd half 19th c). Still haven't started my > Biedermeier dress :~P , I do hope I can get it done in time. I have a > lovely blue and gold shot taffeta to work with. Now if only I could > figure out how to gel my hair into huge bow loops. I am almost finished > with the 2 1860 gowns I am making for the Austrian dance teacher and her > assistant. > > I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions of where to shop (cloth > trims antiques) or if there are any museums with costumes to recommend. > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 10:34:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11115 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:34:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TFY3tv007502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TFY15D029818; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TFXL5D029442 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([24.103.127.8]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20030129153315.FBSA123285.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:33:15 -0500 Message-ID: <010401c2c7ab$bb849ac0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC 21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.127.8] using ID at Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:33:14 -0500 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:33:11 -0500 Status: RO I have hair to my knees, and it *definitely* affects wig sizing. With most wigs I have to pin-curl the heck out of my hair, with a wig cap, and even then the wigs are pretty tight. Braids would probably work too, but they'd need to be fairly narrow so as to avoid having large lumpy lines under your wig. As for the go-go boots, I found my 8 1/2 white go-go boots on ebay. ^_^ -- Maral aka Sarcasm-hime ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC 21 > > On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > > > For the wig, at least, you can try Lacey Costume Wigs in New York > > City. They have a huge selection of styles, REALLY cheap. > > Many thanks! This actually sounds manageable. > > I'm doing '60s Mod for the social (I will look marginally less awful in > that than I would in '20s) and my hair will be the least period-looking > part of me -- too curly and too long. I refuse to either cut it or (the > period solution) iron it :-O but if I could get a cheap wig in a flip > style or something similar, I'm in business. > > I've never worn a wig, and I have a ton of hair to stuff under it. Does > that affect sizing? Any tips? > > And while we're asking around, anybody have a pair of white, pink, or > orange go-go boots in a size 8-1/2? :-) > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 10:50:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11206 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:50:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TFp2tv009520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TFp05D008943; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40910.mail.yahoo.com (web40910.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0TFo85D008459 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:50:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030129155002.68389.qmail@web40910.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.29.70] by web40910.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:50:02 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030129142900.3605.78937.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Philadelphia sights -OT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:50:02 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > have fun! AND! check out the open air food market. It took me a moment to realize what you were talking about.. You must mean the Italian Market, which is on South 9th Street, beginning somewhere around Catherine or Carpenter Streets and going South from there, I believe. Indeed if the weather is better by the time you're here, it's worth a stroll, if just to soak up the wild diversity of cultures hawking wares on the streets, usually as an extension of their storefront directly behind them. There's also an excellent kitchen supply place there, called Fante's where you can find the most amazing and arcane implements, as well as charming and interesting sales help. For a more tourist-friendly experience, try the Reading Terminal Market -- a huge market resembling a street market inside an old train terminal. It takes up an entire city block in downtown Philly, between 11th and 12th and Filbert and Arch Streets. You can find food from all corners of the world here, and it's great for people-watching. -Tasha __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 11:43:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11632 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:43:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TGi3tv015382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TGi15D009941; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TGhu5D009869 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9H00191IH7E6@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:43:56 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] slashing In-reply-to: <000001c2c79e$e38ec520$6601a8c0@mycomputer> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030129084000.00d97930@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030128154418.00a1d1b0@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:42:56 -0800 Status: RO >I seem to remember someone saying that there was evidence that the puffs >you see on some articles of clothing were actually 'faked' back then. >I couldn't find an online image to show you, but an example is an >engraving done by Will Rogers 1593-95 in QEWU on page 47. Any of the paintings of QE1 in that big white dress (Ditchley portrait, etc.) should show what might be faked puffs. Tho I begin to wonder if the surface puffing on that dress is faked puffs or just applied puffing with no slashes at all. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 12:01:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11768 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:01:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TH2Atv017091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:02:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TH215D021079; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from caerthe.org (ms2.webminders.com [216.198.234.194] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TH1R5D020667 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:01:28 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200301291209.AA14221594@caerthe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Melanie Unruh-Bays" To: X-Mailer: Subject: [h-cost] Glass pearls Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:09:08 -0500 Status: RO Can you launder glass pearls? I'm thinking about putting them on a headdress that will have to be laundered. Is there a better choice? Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 12:23:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11885 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:23:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0THN1tv019633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0THN05D004995; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe28.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0THMt5D004875 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:22:50 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030128154418.00a1d1b0@mail.attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2003 17:22:50.0186 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C78F2A0:01C2C7BB] Subject: [h-cost] Folkwear yardage? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:22:55 -0500 Status: RO Hi, Does anyone have the Folkwear Morocan Burnoose pattern? I'm waiting for my pattern to arrive and I'd like to know how much fabric I'll need. I'll probably be making the smallest ladies' size, since I usually wear XSmall. Thanks! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 12:56:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16085 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:56:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0THrItv022593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:53:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0THr05D023707; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0THq75D023140 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCjhUI2deJueDcCq6NKiIvaxPPtay3TMsTg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPP742ND; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:51:45 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [h-cost]Wimsey, was Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns Message-ID: <20030129.115125.-425899.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-9,17-18,23-25 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:28:59 -0600 Status: RO I like both Lord Peters, after all Ian Carmichael was my introduction to the stories at a very young age, but I think that Edward Ptherbridge is closer to Sayers vision. Even tho he wasn't actually any younger than Carmichael when he made the series, Petherbridge manages to seem younger than his 51 years. In the Harriet Vane stories, Wimsey should be about 40 years old. Carmichael, although a similar age to Petherbridge when the shows were filmed, always seems older and less spritely. Carmichael specifically didn't want to do the Harriet Vane stories because he thought he was too old to effectively play a lover. To bring some costume content into the post, the stories are a very nice peek into upper class fashion and manners of the time, as Lord Peter is supposed to be a clotheshorse of the highest order. Sayers manages to include many details of men's toiletry as well as decribing how Lord Peter chooses certain clothing to cause a particular impression. They aren't really disguises, they are just clothing for characters that Lord Peter creates to solve cases. They are a terrific resource for folks trying to create a particular impression from that period. The Petherbridge 'Lord Peters', which I think of as new but were really made 15 years ago, seem to show less evidence of the period in which they were created than the Carmichaels do. Many of the Carmichaels take place in the 1920's, but the Harriet Vane stories are all in the 1930's so one can get a variety of clothing styles thru the course of the series. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 13:08:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16154 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:08:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TI64tv024500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TI615D001882; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TI5P5D001542 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:05:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18dwaT-0005Lr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:05:25 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] slashing Message-ID: <001001c2c7c1$043fc9a0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030129084000.00d97930@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:05:31 -0700 Status: RO Tho I begin to wonder if the[Unknown] surface puffing on that dress is faked puffs or just applied puffing without slashing Yes, I was not very clear. I understand that they were on the surface without slashing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 13:44:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16380 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:44:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TIjBtv028592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TIj65D026651; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TIi05D025851 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0TIhxMw009904 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:43:59 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [h-cost] OT: Wimsey, was Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:43:58 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote: > Did you know that Dorothy Sayers once met a man who she thought looked just like her idea of Lord Peter. When her diaries were edited for publication by a friend after her death, it turned out that she had recorded seeing the same man years earlier, before she created the character, but her conscious mind had forgotten him! No, that's fascinating! I wonder how often authors use actual people (in real life or otherwise) as the basis for the physical characteristics of the characters in their books... A friend of mine who's writing a scifi/romance novel clips pictures of actors and models who look more or less like the images in her head of the characters she's writing. I think they're not exact matches, but 'close'... And I heard somewhere that Anne Rice had a younger Rutger Hauer in mind when she wrote Lestat's character. Now _that_ would have been interesting. Though I've also thought Val Kilmer could get the air of charming menace right... -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 13:52:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16443 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:52:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TIr2tv029419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TIr1oJ001799; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TIq7oJ001235 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:52:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9H006U7OEUTP@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:52:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Wimsey, was Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030129104850.04dcbc80@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:51:57 -0800 Status: RO >A friend of mine who's writing a scifi/romance novel clips pictures of >actors and models who look more or less like the images in her head of the >characters she's writing. I think they're not exact matches, but >'close'... When I was writing, I used to cast each character, and write as if that actor or actress were playing the part. I also wrote lots of costume stuff into my stories, but as little touches of 'colour', not as big sartorial lumps. I never published, and later gave up trying to be a writer. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 13:53:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16467 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:53:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TIs2tv029498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TIs1oJ002366; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TIrBoJ001898 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h0TIr9Mw011429 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:53:10 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [h-cost]Wimsey, was Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns In-Reply-To: <20030129.115125.-425899.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:53:09 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > I like both Lord Peters, after all Ian Carmichael was my introduction to > the stories at a very young age, but I think that Edward Ptherbridge is > closer to Sayers vision. Even tho he wasn't actually any younger than > Carmichael when he made the series, Petherbridge manages to seem younger > than his 51 years. In the Harriet Vane stories, Wimsey should be about 40 > years old. Carmichael, although a similar age to Petherbridge when the > shows were filmed, always seems older and less spritely. Carmichael > specifically didn't want to do the Harriet Vane stories because he > thought he was too old to effectively play a lover. Which is interesting... I think our perceptions of age have changed since Sayers wrote her books. 40 was probably considered a lot more 'over the hill' back then than it is now. > To bring some costume content into the post, the stories are a very nice > peek into upper class fashion and manners of the time, as Lord Peter is > supposed to be a clotheshorse of the highest order. Sayers manages to > include many details of men's toiletry as well as decribing how Lord > Peter chooses certain clothing to cause a particular impression. They > aren't really disguises, they are just clothing for characters that Lord > Peter creates to solve cases. They are a terrific resource for folks > trying to create a particular impression from that period. Yes... very interesting when he's trying to portray someone of questionable breeding and taste . Bunter does a bit of this, too, in the DVDs, though it's less obvious in the books, I think. > The Petherbridge 'Lord Peters', which I think of as new but were really > made 15 years ago, seem to show less evidence of the period in which they > were created than the Carmichaels do. Many of the Carmichaels take place > in the 1920's, but the Harriet Vane stories are all in the 1930's so one > can get a variety of clothing styles thru the course of the series. > > > Karen Back to period knitting patterns... I haven't had much luck so far finding vintage '20s and '30s stuff on Ebay, but will have to keep an eye out, I guess. Most of the patterns seem to be from the late '40s onward. I did find (and buy) a WWII vintage pattern booklet by Woolworth! If anyone is interested in having a copy, let me know. Cheers, Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 14:21:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16712 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:21:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TJM3tv002664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TJM1jf024980; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TJLCjf024394 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:21:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net ([10.116.0.123]) by scanmail3.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:13 -0700 Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123] by scanmail3.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A137620162; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:11 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:05 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Message-ID: <004801c2c7c6$dd66f780$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <20030129.115125.-425899.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Importance: Normal X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Subject: [h-cost] Lord Peter Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:47:15 -0600 Status: RO I loved both the Lord Peter TV series. Did you know you can get the books read by Ian Carmichael from Recorded Books? He is great, does all the voices believably. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 14:28:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16773 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:28:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TJS1tv003319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TJS0jf029292; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TJRTjf028857 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:27:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-20.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.20]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id h0TJRRO07456; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:27:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001901c2c7cc$c140cb20$1407d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: Cc: References: <20030129185401.2362.98106.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Folkwear yardage? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:28:51 -0500 Status: RO Dear Audrey, The Folkwear Moroccan Burnoose takes the following for fabric: 5'2" - 60" wide, mid calf 2 7/8yds, ankle length 3 3/8yds 5'8" - 3 3/8yds, 3 7/8 yds 6'2" - 3 7/8yds Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 15:33:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17338 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:33:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TKX2tv009505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TKX0jf008303; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TKWajf008065 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:32:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9H009EFT2BPV@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:32:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [h-cost]Wimsey, was Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030129122702.04deb6e0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030129.115125.-425899.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:29:28 -0800 Status: RO >Back to period knitting patterns... I haven't had much luck so far >finding vintage '20s and '30s stuff on Ebay, but will have to keep an eye >out, I guess. Most of the patterns seem to be from the late '40s onward. >I did find (and buy) a WWII vintage pattern booklet by Woolworth! If >anyone is interested in having a copy, let me know. Do a search for knitting under Home > All Categories > Collectibles > Vintage Sewing unless, of course, you already did that. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 16:45:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17964 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:45:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TLi7tv015912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TLi0jf019667; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f178.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TLhXjf019369 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:43:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:43:28 -0800 Received: from 151.199.134.210 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:43:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.134.210] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wimsey/Late 1920s/Early 1930s Knitting Patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2003 21:43:28.0178 (UTC) FILETIME=[75712920:01C2C7DF] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:43:27 -0500 Status: RO www.videocollection.com has the Ian Carmichael series, all 5 on DVD for 179.95; their number is 1-800-538-5856 (they have video too). Regarding knitting patterns, were there any printed in magazines of the day? There's a magazine called Sampler of Antique Needlework published now that often has old patterns of different crafts. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Emerson >Oh, yes... I read them all in my early teens, and re-read them >regularly. Haven't seen the Ian Carmichael series for years, though... >I doubt my local video store carries them. Maybe that could be on my >birthday wish list! >> > > > > I was just watching the Lord Peter Wimsey DVDs (with Edward > > > Petherbridge) > > > that my DH got me for Christmas, and have gotten a wild hair about > > > knitting some of the caps etc. that I saw various people wearing. > > > > > > There _used_ to be a web site up for vintage knitting patterns, but > > > I went > > > searching for it today, and it's been taken down (temporarily, > > > anyway). > > > Can anyone recommend other web sites with good vintage knitting > > > patterns, > > > specifically from the late 20s/early 30s? Other books or sources? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > Visit www.juno.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 17:12:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18094 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:12:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TMC3tv018565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TMC1jf006157; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TMBpjf005955 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h0TMBho16820 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:11:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E3851A3.B7CB076D@mccc.edu> From: Kate Pinner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT? Modern Fleece Fabric References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:11:47 -0500 Status: RO > Anyway, does thin synthetic "fleece" tend to shrink? If it's the all polyester, it probably will not shrink; if you're talking about sweatshirt fleece that's part cotton, yes it will shrink some. > a redundant Philadelphia question,..... regional food specialties, please > let me know. Really regional to Philly - Philly cheese steaks and pretzels. Kate > ____________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 17:34:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18190 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:34:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TMY5tv020643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TMY2jf019033; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TMXYjf018729 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:33:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2003012922332800300jlrffe>; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:33:29 +0000 Message-ID: <3E3856F3.7010308@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folkwear yardage? References: <200301271622.h0RGMfRL016330@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030128154418.00a1d1b0@mail.attbi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:34:27 -0800 Status: RO replied off list liz Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >Hi, > >Does anyone have the Folkwear Morocan Burnoose pattern? I'm waiting for my >pattern to arrive and I'd like to know how much fabric I'll need. I'll >probably be making the smallest ladies' size, since I usually wear XSmall. > >Thanks! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 18:20:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18422 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:20:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TNM2tv025263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TNM1ln017029; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TNKDln016055 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from p34-max17.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.118.160.98] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18e1V4-0007kR-00; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:20:11 +1300 Message-ID: <003101c2c7ec$f13e81d0$62a076cb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <010401c2c7ab$bb849ac0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC 21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:19:57 +1300 Status: RO > I have hair to my knees, and it *definitely* affects wig sizing. With most > wigs I have to pin-curl the heck out of my hair, with a wig cap, and even > then the wigs are pretty tight. Braids would probably work too, but they'd > need to be fairly narrow so as to avoid having large lumpy lines under your > wig. When I was on Jack of All trades we were wigged and how they dealt with lots of hair (including mine) was to use four french plaits which circled the head. First was a row from one ear across the front to the other, then aonther from that ear to the first along the bottom and the hair on the crown treated the same way. So you have 4 alternating plaits. They then wrapped the hair between each row and pinned in place. The french plaiting gives an extremely secure base to pin the wig to:) I thionk with longer hair than I have (nearly sittable) you might try a few more plaits especially if it's thick.. This method also gives even coverage on the head so no real lumps and bumps:) michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 18:47:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18558 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TNn2tv027725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TNn1ln001593; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0TNmPln001265 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([24.103.127.8]) by fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20030129234819.KNE4750.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:48:19 -0500 Message-ID: <07f201c2c7f0$e3e99610$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: References: <010401c2c7ab$bb849ac0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> <003101c2c7ec$f13e81d0$62a076cb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC 21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.127.8] using ID at Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:48:18 -0500 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:48:14 -0500 Status: RO That method sounds great...but I assume it requires somebody to braid your hair for you, as I can't imagine how I'd manage french braids in weird directions on my own head. Alas, I'm the only person I know who knows how to french braid. Hmph. -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: CC 21 > > > I have hair to my knees, and it *definitely* affects wig sizing. With > most > > wigs I have to pin-curl the heck out of my hair, with a wig cap, and even > > then the wigs are pretty tight. Braids would probably work too, but > they'd > > need to be fairly narrow so as to avoid having large lumpy lines under > your > > wig. > > > When I was on Jack of All trades we were wigged and how they dealt with lots > of hair (including mine) was to use four french plaits which circled the > head. > First was a row from one ear across the front to the other, then aonther > from that ear to the first along the bottom and the hair on the crown > treated the same way. So you have 4 alternating plaits. They then wrapped > the hair between each row and pinned in place. > > The french plaiting gives an extremely secure base to pin the wig to:) > > I thionk with longer hair than I have (nearly sittable) you might try a few > more plaits especially if it's thick.. > > This method also gives even coverage on the head so no real lumps and > bumps:) > > michaela > http://recital.tripod.com/costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 20:14:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19222 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:14:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U1G4tv003817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U1G1ln008524; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U1F1ln008128 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <2003013001145605200dtgmme>; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 01:14:56 +0000 Message-ID: <00f301c2c7fc$fd3e74d0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030123182337.01f1bf08@saltmine.radix.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Library Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:14:51 -0800 Status: RO Hi Mara, I'm one of the many librarians! I'm an academic librarian -- I work at USC in Southern California. Let me know what I can do to help! - Kendra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin + Mara" To: Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT: Library Science > This is off-topic... but, I know that some of the folks on this list are > librarians. Could you please email me off-list? I'm contemplating a > change of career course, and have a few questions. > > Thanks, > Mara > > > Kevin + Mara Riley > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 20:25:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19361 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:25:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U1R2tv004494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U1R1ln012416; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U1QIln012168 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:26:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20030130012613053001urkie>; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 01:26:13 +0000 Message-ID: <023301c2c7fe$90e39610$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <20030122221915.B69728-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Philadelphia things to see MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:26:08 -0800 Status: RO Thank you SO MUCH to all of those who recommended Jo-Mar Fabrics in Philadelphia -- I spent $200 and got 10 yards of plaid dupioni silk, 10 yards of acetate taffeta, probably about 20 yards of wool, 5 yards of silk prints, 10 yards of rayon, 5 yards of mystery fabric, plus lining fabric for nearly every project. It was just fabulous, especially for wools -- they had rack after rack after rack! Thank you thank you thank you! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 20:46:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19549 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:46:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U1m2tv005676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U1m0ln019806; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U1lZln019656 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:47:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-9-10.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.10] helo=pavilion) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18e3nh-0004EZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:47:33 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c2c802$bbdce160$0a0977d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress Workshop Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:55:56 -0800 Status: RO Robin wrote > > --Robin, catching up on 600 emails after a wonderful but exhausting > workshop weekend in California > I must thank you for taking the time to make the trip and share your knowledge. You are a wealth of information in person as on the list and just as nice to boot! For anyone else interested in this dress, I would highly recommend making the effort to attend one of Robin's classes or at least understand the approach she has to making this garment. I used to live in Brisbane which has a very high number of Medieval re-enactment groups, probably due to the fact the people who once established the Abbey Folk Park in New Barnett outside of London packed up and moved to Australia and established a lovely little museum with the collection they brought with them. As a result, I have looked at many many serious attempts at making this dress, many very beautiful, but rarely was the silhouette successful. Robin wore her dress and indeed she had the gothic slouch in the garment, and by comparison, in street clothes she does not. My bets are this would be the way, or very close to how this period dress would be constructed. A wonderful workshop indeed! Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 21:06:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19633 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:06:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U282tv006773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U280ln026259; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U27eln026137 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m158.in-tch.com [216.166.191.158]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0U1osr10967 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:50:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E388918.157916DE@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glass pearls References: <200301291209.AA14221594@caerthe.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:08:24 -0700 Status: RO I have glass pearls on some of my SCA garb. It washes okay, but I do it by hand. Larger items get washed in the bathtub. --sue Melanie Unruh-Bays wrote: > > Can you launder glass pearls? I'm thinking about putting them on a headdress that will have to be laundered. Is there a better choice? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Jan 29 21:50:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20021 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:50:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U2q4tv009327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U2q1ln011440; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U2p6lo011076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:51:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0U3LHI3026922 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:21:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0U3L8gI026920 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:21:08 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Philadelphia sights -OT User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030129155002.68389.qmail@web40910.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030129155002.68389.qmail@web40910.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301292221.08496.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0U2p6lo011076 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:21:08 -0500 Status: RO On Wednesday 29 January 2003 10:50 am, Tasha McGann wrote: > > have fun! AND! check out the open air food market. > > It took me a moment to realize what you were talking > about.. You must mean the Italian Market, which is on > South 9th Street, beginning somewhere around Catherine > or Carpenter Streets and going South from there, I > believe. It's the largest open-air produce and extra market I know of, though there are others in the Philly 'burbs in the summer if you know where to look. > > Indeed if the weather is better by the time you're > here, it's worth a stroll, if just to soak up the wild > diversity of cultures hawking wares on the streets, > usually as an extension of their storefront directly > behind them. There's also an excellent kitchen supply > place there, called Fante's where you can find the > most amazing and arcane implements, as well as > charming and interesting sales help. Be careful where you walk, though. South Philly around the Italian Market is pretty safe by day, but most of the parts of town north of Center City aren't. > For a more tourist-friendly experience, try the > Reading Terminal Market -- a huge market resembling a > street market inside an old train terminal. It takes > up an entire city block in downtown Philly, between > 11th and 12th and Filbert and Arch Streets. You can > find food from all corners of the world here, and it's > great for people-watching. They domesticated Reading Terminal Market when they built the Convention Center (the current site is actually not the original one) but there are still some interesting things. Actually, Reading Terminal Market is not so much a market (though there are some vendors including some interesting crafts places and at least one used-book seller) as it is a kind of food court with different kinds of ethnic food. If you make it to Philly at all, it's a must-see (or, more exactly, a must-eat). :-) And on the trail of fabric shops, there is a concentration of them in the "Fabric District" which begins at about 4th and Bainbridge (roughly a 10 block walk from Reading Terminal Market, but most of the blocks are short in that part of Philly). Most of the stores are *on* 4th as you continue walking south. They aren't cheap, but they have an amazing variety, and some of them give discounts to SCA members and might give discounts to members of costume related organizations. I don't get down there much, but my favorite is Kincus Fabrics. When I need something unusual I go there--so far, I've never been disappointed. On your way to and from the Fabric District, check out South Street. It's funky, trendy, and too full of tourists on weekends (even in cold weather), but there are stores that sell interesting jewelry, and some very bizarre contemporary clothing. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 00:07:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20564 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:07:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U597tv016637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:09:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U590ln026897; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U58cln026805 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:08:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18e6wG-0005ho-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:08:37 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000401c2c81d$a89c5660$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <001001c2c7c1$043fc9a0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:08:40 -0700 Status: RO I know this may be a little off topic (not to mention strange), but I was wondering if anyone knew of any period (1500-1650) gestures which might be equivalent to giving someone the bird or telling them to 'bite me'? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 00:14:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20596 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:14:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U5GBtv016966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:16:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U5G5ln029125; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U5FKln028903 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:15:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18e72l-0005ki-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:15:19 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) Message-ID: <000501c2c81e$98b41cf0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <000401c2c81d$a89c5660$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:15:24 -0700 Status: RO http://www.armourarchive.org/armour_dukes_burgundy/ Down towards the bottom of the page there is a plate of armor that has two such gestures. Does anyone know the meaning? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 00:31:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20665 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:31:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U5X5tv017694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U5X1ln004427; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U5WNln004298 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:32:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id VAA28344 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:55:10 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200301300555.VAA28344@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:55:10 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > http://www.armourarchive.org/armour_dukes_burgundy/ > > Down towards the bottom of the page there is a plate of armor that has > two such gestures. Does anyone know the meaning? Okay, the fist with the thumb tucked in is the Fico de Mano, which strictly speaking isn't obscene. It's still used as a protective charm against the evil eye in Italy today. However, if you bite your thumb while making that gesture, it's definitely "Bite me!" In Romeo and Juliet, when one of the fighters asks, "Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?" it's that gesture he's talking about. The hand on the left is making the sign of the horns, in essence calling someone a cuckold. Sometimes the hand is held up to the forehead just to make the point crystal clear. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 00:41:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20678 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:41:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U5fEtv018040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:41:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U5fCln006786; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:41:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U5eQln006559 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:40:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from host-66-81-247-93.rev.o1.com ([66.81.247.93]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18e7R3-0005HR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:40:26 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004601c2c6d3$079687e0$690327d9@dan> References: <20030128115836.34975.qmail@web40014.mail.yahoo.com> <004601c2c6d3$079687e0$690327d9@dan> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: 16C Clothing & Culture. - Huntingdon Library Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:19:02 -0800 Status: RO At 1:41 PM +0000 1/28/03, Rachel wrote: > > Just a heads up for anyone who is interested. The living history >group I belong to "The Tudor >> Group" is putting on an exhibit at the V&A Musuem on the 22nd and >23rd of March 2003. I'll be >> doing my embroidery but there is lots more as described below from >our website > > (www.tudorgroup.co.uk): That same weekend (specifically March 23rd) my Renaissance guild (http://www.guildofstgeorge.com) is putting on a modest exhibit, including a dance performance, at the Huntingdon Library in near Los Angeles (California), which has a special exhibition on Queen Elizabeth I that runs through June. I got invited to come down and bring my (period) embroidery frame, but I have to be someplace else that weekend . (And in case anyone's wondering, the reason it's _that_ weekend is that Queen Elizabeth died March 24th, 1603...) -- ____________________________________________________________ O Christian Ashley, gentlewoman to Lady Stafford | Chris Laning + Guild of St. George, Northern California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 01:39:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20824 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 01:39:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U6f5tv020308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:41:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U6f1ln023401; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0U6eQln023248 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:40:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20030130064020053001sdsae>; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:40:20 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c2c82a$72cf11f0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Exhibit in LA: Fashion and Transgression Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:40:15 -0800 Status: RO Open until April 12, 2003 at the USC Fisher Gallery. http://www.usc.edu/org/fishergallery/exhibitions_current.shtml - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 06:36:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00962 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:36:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UBbitv029677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 04:37:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UBbBln005658; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 04:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.175]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UBaKln005447 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 04:36:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0UBa6C18539 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:36:07 +1100 Message-ID: <018a01c2c853$fd2f9530$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: References: <200301300555.VAA28344@gw.retro.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:35:32 +1100 Status: RO From: "Lee Thompson-Herbert" wrote.. > > http://www.armourarchive.org/armour_dukes_burgundy/ > > > > Down towards the bottom of the page there is a plate of armor that has > > two such gestures. Does anyone know the meaning? > > Okay, the fist with the thumb tucked in is the Fico de Mano, which > strictly speaking isn't obscene. It's still used as a protective > charm against the evil eye in Italy today. However, if you bite your > thumb while making that gesture, it's definitely "Bite me!" In Romeo > and Juliet, when one of the fighters asks, "Do you bite your thumb at me, > sir?" it's that gesture he's talking about. > > The hand on the left is making the sign of the horns, in essence calling > someone a cuckold. Sometimes the hand is held up to the forehead just to > make the point crystal clear. I would have said the symbol on the left is also a warding sign more commonly known as the Mano Cornuto. Given that the symbol on the right is probably also a warding sign it seems to make more sense that the other is too. As for obscene gestures how about the 'V' for victory? Same as giving someone the bird but with two fingers? This apparently dates back to the battle of Agincourt (and King Branagh :-)) After their rather humiliating defeat any archers captured by French soldiers had the first two fingers of his right hand cut off. What started as a defiant gesture by English Archers effectively saying "I still have my archery fingers!" has passed down through history as symbolic of defiance in general. Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 06:50:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01022 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:50:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UBqItv000199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 04:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UBq4ln009005; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 04:52:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0UBpGln008802 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 04:51:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030130115110.57245.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:51:10 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <018a01c2c853$fd2f9530$18a231d2@valadan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:51:10 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Baralier wrote: > > As for obscene gestures how about the 'V' for victory? Same as giving > someone the bird but with two fingers? Oh no no no no no *panic mode* :-) there is a great big difference. I remember on a TV appearance I think it was one of the Royals (?) or Downing Street or someone who almost did the V sign wrong. The V for Victory sign is perfectly (!) acceptable and good and lovely, but if you turn the hand round it gets rude, and then you also wave it, in a 'come hither you plonker' gesture kind of way. The V with the index and middle finger and the palm outwards is fine, the V with the palm inwards is rude and does NOT stand for Victory. Important difference to remember when being in England! ;-) Well, some others may correct me, but this is how I was taught and told and see people doing all over the place. This apparently dates back to the > battle of Agincourt (and King Branagh :-)) After their rather humiliating > defeat any archers captured by French soldiers had the first two fingers of > his right hand cut off. What started as a defiant gesture by English Archers > effectively saying "I still have my archery fingers!" has passed down > through history as symbolic of defiance in general. Yeah but on the Continent they have NEVER everheard about this gestur, it has no meaning. So when I drive in Germany or Belgium I use the waving version of the rude V if I have to, which makes me feel better but them not feel bad. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 07:23:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01217 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:23:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UCP5tv001286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:25:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UCP1ln016172; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UCOgln016113 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:24:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0UCOdp06296.; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:24:39 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:24:39 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0UCOgln016113 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:24:15 +0000 Status: RO Nicole wrote: >>This apparently dates back to the >> battle of Agincourt (and King Branagh :-)) After their rather humiliating >> defeat any archers captured by French soldiers had the first two fingers >>of his right hand cut off. What started as a defiant gesture by English >>Archers effectively saying "I still have my archery fingers!" has passed >>down through history as symbolic of defiance in general. >Yeah but on the Continent they have NEVER everheard about this gestur, >it hasno meaning. So when I drive in Germany or Belgium I use the waving >version of the rude V if I have to, which makes me feel better but them not >feel bad. Yes, I think the Urban Legends website has an article disproving the Agincourt theory, which anyway doesn't explain why the two-fingers gesture should be regarded as obscene. (When I was an innocent schoolgirl, I used to think I was the only one who didn't know what it meant; later, I read in one of Desmond Morris's books that no-one really knows...) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 07:34:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01237 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:34:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UCa4tv001615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UCa1ln018902; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UCZuln018865 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-104-17.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.104.17]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id APK64510; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:35:27 GMT Message-ID: <09e801c2c85c$10ee3bf0$5f694ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:35:25 -0000 Status: RO > (When I was an innocent schoolgirl, I used to think I was the only one who didn't know what it meant; later, I always assumed it refered to a girls legs & well ....bits ! Only later did I hear the archers idea. I've read it in many places I suppose check the medieval archer might help Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 09:46:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02058 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:46:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UElVtv007458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UElLln020326; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UEfiln018473 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:41:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18eFsl-0006Cc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:41:35 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) Message-ID: <000501c2c86d$b56e7260$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030130115110.57245.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:41:42 -0700 Status: RO Darn! I really liked the Archer theory! Nicole, I am still not exactly clear what the turned around V waving means. What is a plonker? :) If the answer for us dolts is too graphic, feel free to tell me off line! Sg Can't wait till the rest of the h-costume world wakes up to this request! Thanks for my early morning coffee/computer presents! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 09:46:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02063 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:46:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UElmtv007507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:47:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UElkln020420; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:47:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UEgBln018633 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:42:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-112-31.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.112.31]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id APK75349; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:42:00 GMT Message-ID: <0ac301c2c86d$bed229f0$5f694ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030130090327.M18379-100000@shell.siscom.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:41:28 -0000 Status: RO There are several interesting books on gestures see http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-subj ect=Gesture./202-2143972-6707858 for instance Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 09:46:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02067 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:46:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UElxtv007546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UElwln020484; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UEYKlo016213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:34:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18eFRV-0005PY-00; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:13:25 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18eFQE-00030B-00; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:12:06 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: michiko cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vienna Opera Ball - ballgown styles? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:12:05 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Hi, if you would be interested in 1890's dance clothing styles, I have just copied off our 1890's evening dress sheet for our upcoming 1890's ball in Newport RI. I could send you a copy. It shows ladies and gents fashions as well as shoe and hairstyles ideas. Katy On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, michiko wrote: >Hi! > >My name's Michiko and I'm new to the list - thanks for letting me be here! :) > >Just found out I've got a rare opportunity to attend the Opera Ball >in Vienna on Feb 27th, and I'm trying to learn as much as possible, >as quickly as possible, about the era (I believe their website lists >mid-late 1800s as the time period) in order to design and make >something for it. > >I've got a stack of library books here on costume from that period, >but am noticing that things are listed as Victorian or Edwardian >etc....and is that (this is perhaps a really dumb question :) only >for English styles around that time? > >Is there a good book or film or website that you might want to >recommend, specifically showing Vienna waltz ballgowns from that era? >I know 'mid-late 1800s' is quite a range, and am trying to hone in >better on a look as well...but am so far a bit overwhelmed (in a good >way of course - such great stuff to look at! But...time is ticking >away... :) > >I'm tempted to think Amadeus but their site said something along the >lines of 'not so much boob' :) and I'm not sure if the looks was >extravagant (shiny satins?) or more demure (whether I could put a >twist on it by doing up a fancy dress style and keeping it muslin? Or >is that a tired idea? :) I have some jpgs for reference but am not >sure whether they're historically accurate (have a sense they're more >wedding gowns inspired by the period than remaining accurate to it) >and would be happy to attach those (they're small files) if anyone'd >like to have a look and a comment, but I didn't want to spam you with >them, thanks! > >I'm located in Manhattan and am new to designing/making costumes (I'm >a professional illustrator/character designer), I hope these aren't >super-naive questions. I'd love any tips or leads you might care to >offer, and thanks so much for taking the time to read this. > >Hope you're all having a great weekend! > >Best regards, >Michiko > >-- > > > > >---------------------------------------- >Michiko Stehrenberger >Illustration & Character Design >BimBionic Design Lab | New York >http://www.michiko.com >---------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 09:50:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02083 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:50:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UEqDtv007815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:52:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UEqAln021806; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:52:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from fallbackmx01.syd.optusnet.com.au (fallbackmx01.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.112]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UEkgln020042 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail013.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail013.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.171]) by fallbackmx01.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id h0UDiw625418 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:44:58 +1100 Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail013.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0UDiwN20868 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:44:58 +1100 Message-ID: <005c01c2c865$fd25a4f0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: References: <20030130115110.57245.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:41:52 +1100 Status: RO From: "N Kipar" wrote... > --- Baralier wrote: > > > > As for obscene gestures how about the 'V' for victory? Same as giving > > someone the bird but with two fingers? > > Oh no no no no no *panic mode* :-) there is a great big difference. I remember > on a TV appearance I think it was one of the Royals (?) or Downing Street or > someone who almost did the V sign wrong. The V for Victory sign is perfectly > (!) acceptable and good and lovely, but if you turn the hand round it gets > rude, and then you also wave it, in a 'come hither you plonker' gesture kind of > way. The V with the index and middle finger and the palm outwards is fine, the > V with the palm inwards is rude and does NOT stand for Victory. Important > difference to remember when being in England! ;-) > Well, some others may correct me, but this is how I was taught and told and see > people doing all over the place. Sorry my bad. Yes I know that if you see the back of the person's hand towards you it's an insult but if you see the thumb and remaining fingers it's the piece or victory sign. Remember a lovely joke about the V being the international signal for drag-racing: made famous by Winston Churchill who would offer his cigar to his friends and say "Wanna drag?" :-) Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 10:02:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02147 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:02:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF3stv008417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF16ln024731; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21210.mail.yahoo.com (web21210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0UEx4ln024065 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:59:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030130145848.7619.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [57.66.41.170] by web21210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:58:48 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000501c2c86d$b56e7260$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:58:48 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Darn! I really liked the Archer theory! Me too (as a British archer, from time to time) > Nicole, I am still not exactly > clear what the turned around V waving means. V with palm out, Victory, something like thumbs up, not offensive. A bit dated now, though. V, palm in, meaning probably biological. Waving it moves the extended fingers up and down, implying, er, action on the part of the bit of anatomy being represented.... > What is a plonker? :) In most of the UK, a stupid person: not a very strong word. In a few places, also means a part of the male anatomy. So be careful! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 10:03:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02159 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:03:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF51tv008522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF50iH026218; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF1Eln024786 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0UF19p17449.; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:01:09 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:01:09 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0UF1Eln024786 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:00:42 +0000 Status: RO I think what Nicole meant was that the Churchillian V-for-Victory sign has the palm forwards, but a V-sign with the back of the hand showing is (in Britain) considered very rude, though the precise reason is unclear. "Plonker" is fairly recent British slang for a foolish person. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> saragrace@earthlink.net 01/30/03 02:41pm >>> Darn! I really liked the Archer theory! Nicole, I am still not exactly clear what the turned around V waving means. What is a plonker? :) If the answer for us dolts is too graphic, feel free to tell me off line! Sg Can't wait till the rest of the h-costume world wakes up to this request! Thanks for my early morning coffee/computer presents! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 10:03:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02163 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:03:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF55tv008550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:05:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF54iH026262; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF3vln025688 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-112-31.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.112.31]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id APK77528; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:02:26 GMT Message-ID: <0b0601c2c870$9935d6d0$5f694ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <000501c2c86d$b56e7260$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:02:23 -0000 Status: RO >What is a plonker? idiot, person with no brain etc Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 10:06:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02179 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:06:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF83tv008763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF80iH027435; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:08:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UF7viH027421 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:07:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18eGIG-0001ty-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:07:56 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) Message-ID: <000501c2c871$641c6f80$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:08:00 -0700 Status: RO I just read online somewhere that it meant 'up your bum'-the sign, not plonker. Thanks Sg >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Kate M Bunting >Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 8:01 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) > >I think what Nicole meant was that the Churchillian V-for-Victory sign has the palm >forwards, but a V-sign with the back of the hand showing is (in Britain) considered >very rude, though the precise reason is unclear. >"Plonker" is fairly recent British slang for a foolish person. > > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > >>>> saragrace@earthlink.net 01/30/03 02:41pm >>> >Darn! I really liked the Archer theory! Nicole, I am still not exactly >clear what the turned around V waving means. What is a plonker? :) > >If the answer for us dolts is too graphic, feel free to tell me off >line! > >Sg > >Can't wait till the rest of the h-costume world wakes up to this >request! >Thanks for my early morning coffee/computer presents! > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >___________________________________________________________________ >_____ >This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan >service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working >around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com >___________________________________________________________________ >_____ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 10:17:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02217 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:17:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UFJ6tv009585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UFJ0iH002703; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0UFIXiH002434 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:18:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030130151828.83385.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:18:28 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <0b0601c2c870$9935d6d0$5f694ed5@your1p37d9kihs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:18:28 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > >What is a plonker? > > idiot, person with no brain etc Yes..... but not in an extra nasty way. Dellboy in 'Only Fools and Horses' always uses it. It's milder than other words. Gosh this is wayyyyy OT now and I can't find a costume reference so I shut up. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 10:17:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02221 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:17:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UFJ8u9009586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:19:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UDqXln005022; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UDnXln004509 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:49:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from your1p37d9kihs (213-78-121-155.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.121.155]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id APK69071; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:29:00 GMT Message-ID: <0a4301c2c863$8bf87a70$5f694ed5@your1p37d9kihs> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:28:58 -0000 Status: RO This is an acedemic ref to the archer conection which would on the face of it seem to be more likely to be correct than an Urban myth page (a couple of which I looked at & disagreed with some of their logic) http://masseynews.massey.ac.nz/magazine/2002_Nov/stories/questions.html Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 10:18:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02225 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:18:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UFJ8u7009586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:19:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UE8Mln007660; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:09:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0UE5Oln007126 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:05:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 82454 invoked by uid 1005); 30 Jan 2003 14:05:03 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 2.747453 secs); 30 Jan 2003 14:05:03 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 2.747453 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2003 14:05:00 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) In-Reply-To: <000401c2c81d$a89c5660$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Message-ID: <20030130090327.M18379-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:05:01 -0500 (EST) Status: RO The book you need is "Gesture in Naples and Gesture in Classical Antiquity", a translation of a 15th century Italian manuscript on hand gestures. There's hundreds. You can practically talk with your hand. It's fascinating. I can't remember the author, unfortunately. Good luck, Drea On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > > I know this may be a little off topic (not to mention strange), but I > was wondering if anyone knew of any period (1500-1650) gestures which > might be equivalent to giving someone the bird or telling them to 'bite > me'? > > > Sg > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 10:42:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02384 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:42:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UFh2tv011508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UFh1iH013922; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0UFgWiH013656 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:42:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030130154226.92677.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:42:26 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:42:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Kate M Bunting wrote: > I think what Nicole meant was that the Churchillian V-for-Victory sign has > the palm forwards, but a V-sign with the back of the hand showing is (in > Britain) considered very rude, though the precise reason is unclear. > "Plonker" is fairly recent British slang for a foolish person. I had promised to shut up, but.. :-) Thanks Kate, this is exactly what I tried to say, but sometimes my foreigner-English makes it a bit awkward to explain. Here is the photo of Churchill giving the Victory sign: http://www.learntoquestion.com/data/churchill_victory.jpg Now imagine the hand turned the other way round with the back of the hand showing to the other person, and add waving the fingers towards you, similar to beckoning someone closer, but with those two V-opened fingers, and voila! You are being as rude as sticking out the middle finger alone. :-) That only works in Britain though! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 10:44:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02397 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:44:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UFj3tv011639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UFj3iH014830; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UFi0iH014333 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <200301301543550010087c4pe>; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:43:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3E394875.5050800@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) References: <20030130090327.M18379-100000@shell.siscom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:44:53 -0800 Status: RO Could you mean the book subtitled 'a translation of Andrea de Jorio's "la mimica degli antichi investigata nel gestire napoletano"? If so, it was translated by Adam Kendon, but de Jorio was early 19th century, not 15th century. **It is listed on amazon UK Liz Drea Leed wrote: >The book you need is "Gesture in Naples and Gesture in Classical >Antiquity", a translation of a 15th century Italian manuscript on hand >gestures. There's hundreds. You can practically talk with your hand. >It's fascinating. I can't remember the author, unfortunately. > >Good luck, > >Drea > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 11:02:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02550 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:02:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UG28tv013348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:02:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UG21iH023996; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UG1YiH023735 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:01:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h0UG1Wp21205.; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:01:32 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:01:31 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0UG1YiH023735 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:01:12 +0000 Status: RO I checked one of Desmond Morris's books during my tea-break; he doesn't mention the Agincourt theory, but gives a long list of possible obscene meanings of the V-sign, none of which is proven. For those who wish to compare, the page debunking the theory (actually, I find, with reference to a one-finger gesture) is at http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.htm I shall now shut up about this topic. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 11:14:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02732 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:14:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UGF4tv014488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UGF2iH001586; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0UGEBiH001064 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:14:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030130161406.63481.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:14:06 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Ta moko, was Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <0a4301c2c863$8bf87a70$5f694ed5@your1p37d9kihs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:14:06 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > > http://masseynews.massey.ac.nz/magazine/2002_Nov/stories/questions.html I just had to point to this, I just absolutely love the Maori facial tattoos (okay, okay, is there anything I DON'T like about Maori guys? Nah..... *G*). Click on the photo of the gentleman with the ta moko, the article is fascinating. Does that count as historical clothing/adornment somehow? Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 11:50:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02933 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:50:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UGn4tv017670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UGn0iH020217; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx09.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx09.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UGmwiH020158 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx09.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 61786570 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:48:52 -0500 Message-ID: <005101c2c87f$530a9740$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] New Hunnisett book Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:47:49 -0600 Status: RO Look what I found while I was searching for another book. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2XRR81O0E Q&isbn=0887346707&itm=1 ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 11:54:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02945 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:54:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UGs0tv018088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UGs0iH023084; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UGrTiH022817 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:53:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0UGrTN22752 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:53:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030130084627.028529d0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: Ta moko, was Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) In-Reply-To: <20030130161406.63481.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <0a4301c2c863$8bf87a70$5f694ed5@your1p37d9kihs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3116656==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:53:50 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_3116656==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yeah! someone else who thinks the facial tattoos are very spiffy. Now I have to watch "the Piano" again.. Harvey Keitel with Maori tattoos is almost as good as Harvey Keitel in hussars leggings >; ) At 04:14 PM 1/30/2003 +0000, N Kipar wrote: > --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > > > http://masseynews.massey.ac.nz/magazine/2002_Nov/stories/questions.html > >I just had to point to this, I just absolutely love the Maori facial tattoos >(okay, okay, is there anything I DON'T like about Maori guys? Nah..... *G*). >Click on the photo of the gentleman with the ta moko, the article is >fascinating. Does that count as historical clothing/adornment somehow? > >Nicole Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_3116656==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Yeah! someone else who thinks the facial tattoos are very spiffy.
Now I have to watch "the Piano" again.. Harvey Keitel with Maori tattoos is almost as good as Harvey Keitel in hussars leggings >; )


At 04:14 PM 1/30/2003 +0000, N Kipar wrote:
 --- Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk> wrote: >
> http://masseynews.massey.ac.nz/magazine/2002_Nov/stories/questions.html

I just had to point to this, I just absolutely love the Maori facial tattoos
(okay, okay, is there anything I DON'T like about Maori guys? Nah..... *G*).
Click on the photo of the gentleman with the ta moko, the article is
fascinating. Does that count as historical clothing/adornment somehow?

Nicole

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_3116656==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 12:55:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03157 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:55:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UHuDtv024212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:56:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UHu1iH000484; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe23.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UHt8iH029697 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:55:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:55:02 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2003 17:55:02.0951 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6E73B70:01C2C888] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:55:06 -0500 Status: RO Yeah, lots of nice, nice wool. I found exactly what I wanted. But they only ship to the U.S. :-( Be warned! :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colleen McDonald" > > I've seen great wool at www.fashionfabricsclub.com. Lots of wool and different weights. > > Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 13:21:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03305 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:21:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UIM7tv026854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:22:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UIM2iH016447; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UILRiH016070 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:21:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h0UILQN09518 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:21:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030130101720.02847ac0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] good source for wool? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_8393843==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:21:47 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_8393843==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Argh... someone just bought the pendleton wool I was looking at from them between yesterday and this morning! I've been to the Pendleton outlet and I know they almost always have what I'm looking for one one of the wall racks. I know someone posted the Washalug (sp?) telephone number for Pendleton but I deleted it. Could someone please repost it? Also, do they take credit card order for the discounted stock from the outlet? Danke Gwyn At 12:55 PM 1/30/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Yeah, lots of nice, nice wool. I found exactly what I wanted. But they only >ship to the U.S. :-( Be warned! :-) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Colleen McDonald" > > > > I've seen great wool at www.fashionfabricsclub.com. Lots of wool and >different weights. > > > > Colleen Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_8393843==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Argh... someone just bought the pendleton wool I was looking at from them between yesterday and this morning!

I've been to the Pendleton outlet and I know they almost always have what I'm looking for one one of the wall racks. I know someone posted the Washalug (sp?) telephone number for Pendleton but I deleted it. Could someone please repost it? Also, do they take credit card order for the discounted stock from the outlet?

Danke
Gwyn

At 12:55 PM 1/30/2003 -0500, you wrote:

Yeah, lots of nice, nice wool. I found exactly what I wanted. But they only
ship to the U.S. :-(    Be warned! :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Colleen McDonald" <Colleen.McDonald@mackie.com>
>
> I've seen great wool at www.fa= shionfabricsclub.com. Lots of wool and
different weights.
>
> Colleen

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_8393843==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 15:29:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04118 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:29:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UKU5tv009813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:30:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UKU1Cr004215; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UKTBCr003774 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:29:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-113-106.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.113.106]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id APA23269; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:29:08 GMT Message-ID: <00f601c2c89e$b0099080$6a714ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030130151828.83385.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:32:19 -0000 Status: RO >Yes..... but not in an extra nasty way. Dellboy in 'Only Fools and Horses' always uses it. It's milder than other words. Hmm yes milder than some but it can be fairly nasty... The wat Dell boy uses it is mild agreed Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 16:16:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04534 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:16:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULGBtv014342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:16:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULG2Qj000601; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULFjQk000433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:15:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0UL9DUx050176 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:09:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301302109.h0UL9DUx050176@jabberwock.wonderland.com> To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Titanic dress... Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:09:13 -0800 (PST) Status: RO since there was so much talk about the Titanic Jump Dress on this list, I just had to post this... the original is for sale on eBay, apparently.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3308721929&category=18834 .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 16:39:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04751 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:39:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULe3tv016709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:40:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULe1Iu014423; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium.btinternet.com (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULc0Qk012993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:38:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-19-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.19.142] helo=dan) by einsteinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18eMNY-000010-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:37:48 +0000 Message-ID: <008501c2c8a9$1dab77c0$8e1327d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <200301302109.h0UL9DUx050176@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:46:58 -0000 Status: RO Heather wrote: > since there was so much talk about the Titanic Jump Dress > on this list, I just had to post this... > > the original is for sale on eBay, apparently.. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3308721929&category =18834 > Well, before anyone jumps in and buys this it's probably wise to note that the documentation refers to 'an' not 'the'. I would imagine that there were at least two, and maybe more, copies of the dress made, of which this is one. best wishes Stevie who always, always reads the small print:-( _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 16:40:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04762 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:39:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULeNtv016758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULeMIu014619; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:40:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0ULd5Iu013663 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:39:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4922 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2003 21:38:56 -0000 Received: from tempest.sonic.net (208.201.224.25) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2003 21:38:56 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-78.sonic.net [209.148.112.78]) by tempest.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h0ULctT06550 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:38:55 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3E399B8B.4080202@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Book and bookseller of interest Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:39:23 -0800 Status: RO Today a belated Christmas present arrived that my husband had mail ordered for me. It is a book titled _Royal Gowns_, by Katia Johansen. It was published in 1990, apparently by Rosenborg Palace. It contains 112 pages of color pictures of clothes worn by Danish queens and princesses between about 1640 and 1960. The descriptions are all in English (there is also a Danish edition). My favorite is a densely embroidered 17th-century bodice. My husband bought the book from: Art Consulting: Scandanavia Books on Art & Architecture 3650 Cross Creek Road Malibu, California 90265 http://www.nordicartbooks.com They enclosed their print catalog, which is quite large. Of interest may be a book on Swedish reform dress, some books on textiles and tapestries, and a whole section of non-textile-related books on the Vikings. Fran --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 16:48:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04839 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:48:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULn4tv017549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULn1Iu019649; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mxout5.cac.washington.edu (mxout5.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULmQIv019342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:48:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.139]) by mxout5.cac.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.12) with ESMTP id h0ULmPFR006879 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:48:25 -0800 Received: from UROPORTABLE (D-128-95-177-145.dhcp4.washington.edu [128.95.177.145]) by smtp.washington.edu (8.12.1+UW01.12/8.12.1+UW02.12) with SMTP id h0ULmOTX016375 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:48:25 -0800 Message-ID: <002d01c2c8a9$3212b430$91b15f80@UROPORTABLE> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: References: <3E399B8B.4080202@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book and bookseller of interest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:47:33 -0800 Status: RO I have purchased costuming books from these sellers before as well. They are pleasant to deal with. Agnes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] Book and bookseller of interest > Today a belated Christmas present arrived that my husband had mail > ordered for me. It is a book titled _Royal Gowns_, by Katia > Johansen. It was published in 1990, apparently by Rosenborg Palace. > It contains 112 pages of color pictures of clothes worn by Danish > queens and princesses between about 1640 and 1960. The descriptions > are all in English (there is also a Danish edition). My favorite is > a densely embroidered 17th-century bodice. > > My husband bought the book from: > > Art Consulting: Scandanavia > Books on Art & Architecture > 3650 Cross Creek Road > Malibu, California 90265 > http://www.nordicartbooks.com > > They enclosed their print catalog, which is quite large. Of > interest may be a book on Swedish reform dress, some books on > textiles and tapestries, and a whole section of non-textile-related > books on the Vikings. > > Fran > > --------------------------------------------- > Visit our web pages! > Books on historic costume and vintage clothes > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and vintage dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 16:49:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04848 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:49:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULnCtv017567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULnBIu019741; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (sm0101.promedia.net [207.13.104.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0ULmqIu019539 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:48:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from gateway (ppp-207-13-110-11.01.promedia.net [207.13.110.11]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.12.7/8.12.7) with SMTP id h0ULmZld023003 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:48:47 -0800 Message-ID: <002201c2c8a9$65b40500$0100a8c0@gateway> From: "Joan Broneske" To: References: <200301302109.h0UL9DUx050176@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <008501c2c8a9$1dab77c0$8e1327d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:48:46 -0800 Status: RO I hope whoever wins it posts to us online costumers a *detailed* breakdown of it's construction, preferably with pictures :) ,%%%, --==% `%%%, |' )`%%, \_/\ @%%, __@@" %%%--"""-.%, /`__| \%% \\ \ / | /'%, \] | /----'. < `%, Joan Broneske || `>> > unicorn@softcom.net || ///` /( //( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevie Gamble" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... > Heather wrote: > > > since there was so much talk about the Titanic Jump Dress > > on this list, I just had to post this... > > > > the original is for sale on eBay, apparently.. > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3308721929&category > =18834 > > > > Well, before anyone jumps in and buys this it's probably wise to note > that the documentation refers to 'an' not 'the'. I would imagine that > there were at least two, and maybe more, copies of the dress made, of > which this is one. > > best wishes > Stevie > who always, always reads the small print:-( > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 17:02:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05053 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:02:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UM42tv019116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UM40Iu028306; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UM34Iu027697 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from webmail07.syd.optusnet.com.au (webmail07.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.124]) by mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h0UM2wv26472 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:02:58 +1100 Message-Id: <200301302202.h0UM2wv26472@mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.411 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [152.91.9.46] as user baralier@optusnet.com.au by webmail.optusnet.com.au with HTTP; From: Baralier To: "h-costume @ indra . com" Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:02:58 +1100 Status: RO > N Kipar wrote: > http://www.learntoquestion.com/data/churchill_victory.jpg > > Now imagine the hand turned the other way round with the back of the hand > showing to the other person, and add waving the fingers towards you, > similar to beckoning someone closer, but with those two V-opened fingers, > and voila! You are being as rude as sticking out the middle finger alone. :-) > That only works in Britain though! Trust me, there's enough British culture in Australia and New Zealand that doing that to the wrong person is liable to result in having your head kicked in! Don't know about Canada but I assume they're aware of it there. Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 17:50:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05488 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:50:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UMp3tv023287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UMp1Iu024494; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UMoIIu024054 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:50:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from VALINOR ([24.103.127.8]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20030130225012.YLZA123285.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@VALINOR> for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:50:12 -0500 Message-ID: <00a801c2c8b1$ef4fdbb0$6401a8c0@VALINOR> From: "Herself-the-Elf" To: References: <200301302202.h0UM2wv26472@mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.127.8] using ID at Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:50:11 -0500 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:50:06 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baralier" To: "h-costume @ indra . com" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:02 PM Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) > > N Kipar wrote: > > http://www.learntoquestion.com/data/churchill_victory.jpg > > > > Now imagine the hand turned the other way round with the back of the hand > > showing to the other person, and add waving the fingers towards you, > > similar to beckoning someone closer, but with those two V-opened fingers, > > and voila! You are being as rude as sticking out the middle finger alone. :-) > > That only works in Britain though! > > Trust me, there's enough British culture in Australia and New Zealand that doing > that to the wrong person is liable to result in having your head kicked in! > > Don't know about Canada but I assume they're aware of it there. > > Paul > -- >From my experience, only those of us who watch British TV. ^_^ -- Maral, proud Canuck _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 18:25:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05868 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:25:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNR2tv026682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNR1Iu014327; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNQNIu013933 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:26:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0UNQHv11617 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:26:17 +1100 Message-ID: <009901c2c8b7$32ff55c0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <200301302109.h0UL9DUx050176@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:27:47 +1100 Status: RO > since there was so much talk about the Titanic Jump Dress > on this list, I just had to post this... > the original is for sale on eBay, apparently.. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3308721929&category=18834 I'm not convinced it is authentic. I've been doing a bit of Titanic research lately because I'm making an Edwardian/Titanic dress, and the one on ebay seems to be lacking a certain something. One page I've been getting some reference from is here: http://www.sensibility.com/titanic/ About 1/4 of the way down there are some very detailed photos of the dress. Also the link to "Photos of the original "jump" dress and "Sinking" coat" has some more good photos. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 18:27:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05882 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:27:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNT1tv026846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNT1Iu015327; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNSeIu015078 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:28:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0UNSYH25385 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:28:34 +1100 Message-ID: <00a701c2c8b7$845c7f60$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <200301302109.h0UL9DUx050176@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <008501c2c8a9$1dab77c0$8e1327d9@dan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:30:04 +1100 Status: RO > Well, before anyone jumps in and buys this it's probably wise to note > that the documentation refers to 'an' not 'the'. I would imagine that > there were at least two, and maybe more, copies of the dress made, of > which this is one. I know in my recent research that there was something like 27 copies of the "sinking" dress so this one probably had many as well. K ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 18:32:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05931 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:32:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNX1tv027196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNX0Iu017498; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail018.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail018.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNWTIu017199 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:32:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail018.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0UNWNj28434 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:32:23 +1100 Message-ID: <00bb01c2c8b8$0cd357b0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <005101c2c87f$530a9740$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Hunnisett book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:33:52 +1100 Status: RO > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2XRR81O0E > Q&isbn=0887346707&itm=1 I have Hunnisett's three dress books, is the one for cloaks etc that's currently available worth it? The books here cost about AU$140 so it's quite an expense for a book if it's not really worth it. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 18:32:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05941 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:32:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNY1tv027293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNY1Iu017968; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNXvIu017915 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:33:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f44.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.68]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1EC8C47FF2D for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:33:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002301c2c8b8$4f1ddcd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] paper clay doll Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:35:44 +0100 Status: RO Hi. As promised i have posted some pics of my first paper clay doll. Dont laugh :-) Hopefully the next ones gets better and better. But it is fun. She is not dressed yeat http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/my_first_paper_clay_doll.htm Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 18:33:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05955 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:33:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNZ1tv027440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNZ0Iu018495; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:35:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNY5Iu017961 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:34:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.171.19f64318 (25914) for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:33:35 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <171.19f64318.2b6b104f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_171.19f64318.2b6b104f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:33:35 EST Status: RO --part1_171.19f64318.2b6b104f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/30/2003 6:29:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, smonster@optusnet.com.au writes: > I know in my recent research that there was something like 27 copies of the > "sinking" dress so this one probably had many as well. > I doubt it had 27. It never got wet or needed to. They probably made about 3 to 5. --part1_171.19f64318.2b6b104f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/30/2003 6:29:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, smonster@optusnet.com.au writes:


I know in my recent research that there was something like 27 copies of the
"sinking" dress so this one probably had many as well.


I doubt it had 27. It never got wet or needed to. They probably made about 3 to 5. --part1_171.19f64318.2b6b104f_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 18:43:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06021 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:43:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNj4tv028314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:45:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNj2Iu023645; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.170]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNiXIu023334 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:44:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0UNiQq23555 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:44:27 +1100 Message-ID: <00d101c2c8b9$bc41a980$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <002301c2c8b8$4f1ddcd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] paper clay doll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:45:56 +1100 Status: RO > As promised i have posted some pics of my first paper clay doll. > Dont laugh :-) Can I just say WOW!!! K ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 18:49:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06068 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:49:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNp2tv028835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNp1Iu026510; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNoMIu026221 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from bently (dialport58.tukwila.eskimo.net [208.187.8.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA01659 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:50:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <014901c2c8ba$4ac9b300$599fbbd0@bently> From: "David" To: References: <200301302109.h0UL9DUx050176@jabberwock.wonderland.com> <009901c2c8b7$32ff55c0$18a231d2@valadan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:49:51 -0800 Status: RO > I'm not convinced it is authentic. I've been doing a bit of Titanic > research lately because I'm making an Edwardian/Titanic dress, and the one > on ebay seems to be lacking a certain something. > > One page I've been getting some reference from is here: > http://www.sensibility.com/titanic/ > About 1/4 of the way down there are some very detailed photos of the dress. > Also the link to "Photos of the original "jump" dress and "Sinking" coat" > has some more good photos. Going back and forth between the two pages, the embroidery on the bodice (of the one on ebay)seems to be very similar, but not exactly the same, and the net overlay seems to be missing its patterning and the occasional jet teardrop. Just my 2 cents, Pam Dotson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 18:53:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06104 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:53:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNt2tv029263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNt1Iu028598; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNs5Iu028107 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.118.1e661dfb (25914) for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:53:54 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <118.1e661dfb.2b6b1511@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_118.1e661dfb.2b6b1511_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Subject: [h-cost] Nicholas Nickleby Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:53:53 EST Status: RO --part1_118.1e661dfb.2b6b1511_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw the current film while in NYC. What a disappointment. Lousy costumes! They looked pulled....or like some designer started the project and Ruth Myers was brought in to finish up or something. Sometimes the men's coats has SHOULDER PADS....sometimes not. The collars and neckwear were positively sloppy. Christopher Plummer wears the ugliest grey striped waistcoat I've ever seen. And the best woman's costume is worn by Fanny Squeers. Kate wears a dress that is easily dated from the 1890s. Nicholas's Love has this thing that looks like several dresses sewn together...topped with a horizontally tucked, high necked false shirtwaist fill in from the teens....sewn to the outside of her outfit. You can see her sleeveless wedding dress on the web site. YUK!!!!! --part1_118.1e661dfb.2b6b1511_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw the current film while in NYC. What a disappointment.

Lousy costumes! They looked pulled....or like some designer started the project and Ruth Myers was brought in to finish up or something. Sometimes the men's coats has SHOULDER PADS....sometimes not. The collars and neckwear were positively sloppy. Christopher Plummer wears the ugliest grey striped waistcoat I've ever seen.

And the best woman's costume is worn by Fanny Squeers. Kate wears a dress that is easily dated from the 1890s. Nicholas's Love has this thing that looks like several dresses sewn together...topped with a horizontally tucked, high necked false shirtwaist fill in from the teens....sewn to the outside of her outfit. You can see her sleeveless wedding dress on the web site.

YUK!!!!! --part1_118.1e661dfb.2b6b1511_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 18:54:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06108 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:54:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNu3tv029380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNu1Iu029092; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0UNt5Iu028616 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from p309-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.55] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18eOWN-0000mj-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:55:03 +1300 Message-ID: <007d01c2c8ba$ff265650$37c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030130161406.63481.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Ta moko, was Re: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:54:46 +1300 Status: RO > > http://masseynews.massey.ac.nz/magazine/2002_Nov/stories/questions.html > I just had to point to this, I just absolutely love the Maori facial tattoos > (okay, okay, is there anything I DON'T like about Maori guys? Nah..... *G*). > Click on the photo of the gentleman with the ta moko, the article is > fascinating. Does that count as historical clothing/adornment somehow? Nicole you'll just have to come over here won't you;) Though to find blokies with facial tatoos you are looking at touristy shows or the gangs;) In the first instance probably temporary tatoos, in the later.. you probably won't get close enough and if you do you may regret it;) michaela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 19:01:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06186 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:01:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V032tv029946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V031N1003156; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V02VN1002872 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:02:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from p309-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.55] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18eOdY-0000oj-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:02:29 +1300 Message-ID: <008701c2c8bc$0ae08b90$37c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <171.19f64318.2b6b104f@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01C2C929.014ADA00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:02:27 +1300 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C2C929.014ADA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> You're right. Actually if you go to the web board from Jennie Chancey's = site you'll find a discussion about it,=20 http://pub82.ezboard.com/fsensibilityfrm1.showMessage?topicID=3D1008.topi= c as well as on the titanicdresses yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/titanicdresses/?yguid=3D85892 The 27 swim dresses were because of the delicate nature of the dress(es) = and all the action that happened in it. Some were even cut up so that = Kate could actually wade through all the water without tripping over the = dress. Yes it would have been more authentic to have her struggle with = the dress but it would have held up shooting as well as the drive of the = story if any of her stumbles were left in the film;) There are about 3 Jump dresses. The harness dress which would have been = altered as it was a stunt dress and had to go over the harness. = Aparently it's all sewn as one piece. There is an underdress held at Fox = studios which may have been a prototype. The original antique dress = which was copied... and probably a hero costume for Kate to wear for all = the other scenes (hero as in worn by the atcor rather than a double). There are many things which suggest the dress is an altered Peterman: The beads on the bodice are not in neat rows but more random. The lace for the under dress looks like it matches the lace on the split = over skirt which it does not in the movie. This dress also looks to be the same as the one offered through Chrities = which was returned as it was found to not be film original. michaela http://recital.tripod.com/costume ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C2C929.014ADA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<I = know in my recent=20 research that there was something like 27 copies of the
"sinking" = dress so=20 this one probably had many as well.>>
<I doubt it had 27. It never got wet or needed to. = They=20 probably made about 3 to 5. >
 
You're right. Actually if you go to the web = board from=20 Jennie Chancey's site you'll find a discussion about it,
http://pub82.ezboard.com/fsensibilityfrm1.showMessage?topicID=3D= 1008.topic
 
as well as on the titanicdresses yahoo = group.
http= ://groups.yahoo.com/group/titanicdresses/?yguid=3D85892
 
The 27 swim dresses were because of the delicate = nature of=20 the dress(es) and all the action that happened in it. Some were even cut = up so=20 that Kate could actually wade through all the water without tripping = over the=20 dress. Yes it would have been more authentic to have her struggle with = the dress=20 but it would have held up shooting as well as the drive of the story if = any of=20 her stumbles were left in the film;)
 
There are about 3 Jump dresses. The harness = dress which=20 would have been altered as it was a stunt dress and had to go over the = harness.=20 Aparently it's all sewn as one piece. There is an underdress held at Fox = studios=20 which may have been a prototype. The original antique dress which was = copied...=20 and probably a hero costume for Kate to wear for all the other scenes = (hero as=20 in worn by the atcor rather than a double).
 
There are many things which suggest the dress is = an=20 altered Peterman:
The beads on the bodice are not in neat rows but = more=20 random.
The lace for the under dress looks like it = matches the=20 lace on the split over skirt which it does not in the = movie.
 
This dress also looks to be the same as the one = offered=20 through Chrities which was returned as it was found to not be film=20 original.
 
michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/cost= ume
 
------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C2C929.014ADA00-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 20:46:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06858 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:46:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V1m4tv007119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V1m0N1015755; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V1l3N1015451 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9K00IGR2AEE4@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:47:02 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] paper clay doll In-reply-to: <002301c2c8b8$4f1ddcd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030130163534.04e5deb0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:40:20 -0800 Status: RO >As promised i have posted some pics of my first paper clay doll. >Don't laugh :-) >Hopefully the next ones get better and better. But it is fun. >She is not dressed yet Now you know why some of us have gotten into doll making. I can do so many more outfits on dolls than I can afford to do for myself, and I find it more fun costuming for them anyway. When I (finally) get a website, you'll see some of mine. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 21:08:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06958 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:08:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V2A2tv008598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V2A0N1022647; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V28xN2022300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0V2dJI3030835 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:39:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0V2dBf8030833 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:39:11 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Hunnisett book User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <005101c2c87f$530a9740$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> In-Reply-To: <005101c2c87f$530a9740$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301302139.11438.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0V28xN2022300 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:39:11 -0500 Status: RO On Thursday 30 January 2003 11:47 am, lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote: > Look what I found while I was searching for another book. > > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2XRR81O0 >E Q&isbn=0887346707&itm=1 > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, > BRF FOF Sorry, the URL above returned a message that said "Sorry, we have no such books" when I tried it (and I even tried typing it in). What was the title? -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 22:46:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07457 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:46:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V3l2tv014126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:47:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V3l0gI023758; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:47:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V3kDgI023504 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:46:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-58-249-155.s155.tnt1.nwhv.ct.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.249.155] helo=rcn.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 18eS83-0005mi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:46:12 -0500 Message-ID: <3E39F184.C14D831@rcn.com> From: Catelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-RCN010799 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] paper clay doll References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:46:12 -0500 Status: RO I suggest re-stuffing the body more firmly. I use a 3.25 mm steel crochet hook, the non-hooked end as a stuffing stick, but there are many many alternatives. The trouble with hard-medium heads on cloth bodies is that the cloth tends to sag. The stuffing 'softens up' & tends to sag more as it ages. Firm stuffing will counter-act the sagging to some extent. > As promised i have posted some pics of my first paper clay doll. > Hopefully the next ones gets better and better. But it is fun. > She is not dressed yet > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/my_first_paper_clay_doll.htm > > Leif og Bjarne Drews The head is good, & I quite liked the hands you made. On your first try, too. envy. and welcome to doll making. Ann in CT Cecilia Dollmaker 23 years of making cloth dolls _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 22:51:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07486 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:51:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V3r1tv014499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V3r0gI025705; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V3qegI025596 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:52:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-209.244.177.146.dial1.newyork2.level3.net ([209.244.177.146] helo=jessica.earthlink.net) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18eSEJ-0005t2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:52:39 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030127191723.03859eb0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: webwarren@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] wig examination offer (heh), In-Reply-To: <20030127231201.17285.84013.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:51:09 -0500 Status: RO On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:21:46 -0500, michiko wrote: >Also, got this info off the Lacy Wig site you provided (thanks Cathy!) and >just wanted to mention that since I'm in NYC (albeit not walking distance >from their location) that if anyone from outside of NYC needed me to go in >and have a look at the wigs for them... Did you notice whether or not they have a showroom? I know a lot of mail-order places do *not* have either a showroom or a storefront; some don't even have a place where they can show merchandise to walk-ins from the trade... >I'm curious about their wigs now... I've been vaguely so, for a number of reasons, but have never gone further than idle musings. This may be a place I need to check out before faire season... >and will probably go in to check it out in the next few weeks and can get >you info at the same time, if you need it. Please let me know if there is, indeed, a showroom -- and if so, what their hours are... >Lacey's Costume Wig >505 8TH AVE. 11TH FL NEW YORK NY 10018 Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 23:10:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07559 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:10:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4C2tv015579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4C1gI001594; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4BUgI001422 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A771ECC2012C; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:11:29 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A770B9A021E; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:11:28 -0600 Message-ID: <007a01c2c8de$ecd3e5c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: Cc: "Jennie" References: <171.19f64318.2b6b104f@aol.com> <008701c2c8bc$0ae08b90$37c1adcb@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0076_01C2C8B5.039000C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:12:09 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C2C8B5.039000C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jennie Chancey and I have heavily researched Rose's costumes from Titanic. Jennie is more knowledgeable than I. She has re-subbed to h-costume since the baby was born and her move. So I will tell you what she has passed on to me. Jennie says there are four Jump dresses: 1. the original worn in the film owned by a couple in New Jersey 2. the antique dress sold to the film by Suzi's Antiques 3. a prototype for the European Titanic Costume Tour (it was not in the U.S. tour) 4. one in the Fox Vault The original owners of the actual jump dress and the sinking coat that were used in the film are owned by a couple in New Jersey. Jennie and I have become really good friends with them and have met on several occasions. The couple were my guests at the Red Cross Ball last August. Jennie is working on writing a book about their costumes. The couple have heavy documentation that both costumes were the ones IN the film including a letter from Deborah Scott, the film's costume designer. They purchased the costumes directly from J. Peterman, prior to the showing of the sell on the Today Show. I have seen the video from the show and J. Peterman states that he had sold the original dress before the airing of the show. Jennie and I have been advising the couple about photography, storage and security for the costumes. They also own a J. Peterman's reproduction of the sinking coat to fit the wife of the couple. I have inspected it and had the wonderful opportunity to try it on. The couple stated that the reproduction sinking coat is not as detailed the original. I have photos of the reproduction's details in my online class that I teach about Titanic's costumes. Jennie and I have also seen detailed professional photographs of both costumes. I advised the owners how to dress the costumes for photographing and I will be the dresser for the costumes if they do go on exhibit. Both costumes have very stunning detail work on them. The original jump dress has a tear in a specific place that Deborah Scott documented in the letter to the couple as the original in the film. I have seen in person and read the entire letter. Kate tore dress in the Jump scene in a specific location. I have seen the photographs and MS. Scott's description matches perfectly. The original owners have been aware of all the goings on to sell the other dress that has been showing up for sell. The original owners have NO intentions of selling their costumes. They have spoke with several *people* about the authicently of this dress that is floating around. Jennie has been writing me about the eBay dress. The dress from the other auction was returned. The details on the ebay or other auction dress is no where close to the original. Jennie and the couple are very upset that this *dress* has popped up again. The person who purchased the dress from Odessy Auctions last year, contacted Jennie. He said that he returned the dress after he discovered that it still had a J. Peterman's reproduction garment tag. This purchaser also contacted the owner's of the original film gown. The harness dress was the one worn by Kate throughout the scenes. It was originally worn made for her double but Kate decided to do her own stunts. The New Jersey couple's dress wardrobe tag states it is the harness dress and that it was worn by Kate. Jennie said the European Tour prototype dress is lacking a lot of details from the film costume. She has seen the photos and talked with a person who inspected it at the exhibit. The medallions on the bottom are shorted in number (only two medallions) and they we not made in the same fashion as the films. Jennie also said the dress in the Fox Vault is missing the overlay and only has the underskirt. Just for a side note... the vintage dress that the Jump Dress was made from was sold to the film by Suzi's Antiques from Farmville, VA. Remember Suzi and her mother were murdered a couple of years ago. Suzi stated on our local news that she had sold the film the antique dress. I have a transcript of the interview. In a memorial article in People magazine, they stated that Suzi sold the Jump Dress to the film. An insider in the vintage industry told me that a lot of the antique clothing sold to the film was sold back to the dealers. In return the dealers had to promise that they would not sell the items as that they were not in the film. Now if this is true, I bet my bottom dollar, that Suzi's children would not sell that dress since Suzi received so much publicity for it. Swim Dress... Jennie has documented that there were several copies of the swim dress. I believe she said there were up to 27 copies of the dress made because of the wear and tear of the dress in the water. This information was on the exhibit card for the swim dress in 1998 U.S. tour. This is one of Jennie's favorite dresses from the film. I was with her when she inspected the Swim Dress. I received permission from Paramont to photograph the exhibit's collection for my website. Jennie is really good at looking at costumes and knowing exactly how they are made and textiles used. She spent about 30 minutes inspecting the Swim Dress. If you want more information about Titanic's costumes you can go to Jennie's website: http://www.sensibility.com/titanic/index.htm OR my website: http://www.costumegallery.com/Titanic/Costumes.html If you are interested in my 1912 film costumes, "Costume Analysis of Four Films Set in 1912-1914" class go to: www.costumeclassroom.com class begins March 9. FYI: Jennie and I composed this email together. On last thing... I am leaving out of town shortly to do some research at the Library of Congress. I will not be back until Sunday. If you have questions or comments, please email me directly... but remember, I won't be home until Sunday. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C2C8B5.039000C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jennie Chancey and I have heavily researched Rose's costumes from=20 Titanic.  Jennie is more knowledgeable than I.  She has = re-subbed to=20 h-costume since the baby was born and her move.  So I will tell you = what=20 she has passed on to me.
 
Jennie says there are four Jump dresses:
1. the original worn in the film owned by a couple in New = Jersey
2. the antique dress sold to the film by Suzi's Antiques
3. a prototype for the European Titanic Costume Tour (it was not in = the=20 U.S. tour)
4. one in the Fox Vault
 
The original owners of the actual jump dress and the sinking = coat that=20 were used in the film are owned by a couple in New Jersey.  = Jennie and=20 I have become really good friends with them and have met on several=20 occasions.  The couple were my guests at the Red Cross = Ball last=20 August.  Jennie is working on writing a book about their = costumes. =20 The couple have heavy documentation that both costumes were the=20 ones IN the film including a letter from Deborah Scott, the film's = costume=20 designer.  They purchased the costumes directly from J. Peterman, = prior to=20 the showing of the sell on the Today Show.  I have seen the = video from=20 the show and J. Peterman states that he had sold the original dress = before the=20 airing of the show.  Jennie and I have been advising the = couple about=20 photography, storage and security for the costumes.  They also own = a J.=20 Peterman's reproduction of the sinking coat to fit the wife of = the=20 couple.  I have inspected it and had the wonderful opportunity to = try it=20 on.  The couple stated that the reproduction sinking coat is not as = detailed the original.  I have photos of the reproduction's details = in my online class that I teach about Titanic's=20 costumes.   Jennie and I have also seen detailed = professional=20 photographs of both costumes.  I advised the owners how to dress = the=20 costumes for photographing and I will be the dresser for the = costumes if=20 they do go on exhibit.  Both costumes have very stunning detail = work on=20 them.  The original jump dress has a tear in a specific place that = Deborah=20 Scott documented in the letter to the couple as the original in the = film.  I have seen in person and read the entire letter.  Kate = tore dress in the Jump scene in a specific location.  I have = seen the=20 photographs and MS. Scott's description matches perfectly.
 
The original owners have been aware of all the goings on to sell = the other=20 dress that has been showing up for sell.  The original owners = have NO=20 intentions of selling their costumes.  They have spoke with = several=20 *people* about the authicently of this dress that is floating = around. =20 Jennie has been writing me about the eBay dress. The dress = from the=20 other auction was returned.   The details on the ebay=20 or other auction dress is no where close to the = original.  Jennie=20 and the couple are very upset that this *dress* has popped up = again.  The=20 person who purchased the dress from Odessy Auctions last year, contacted = Jennie.  He said that he returned the dress after he discovered = that it=20 still had a J. Peterman's reproduction garment tag. This=20 purchaser also contacted the owner's of the original=20 film gown. 
 
The harness dress was the one worn by Kate throughout the = scenes.  It=20 was originally worn made for her double but Kate decided to do her = own=20 stunts.  The New Jersey couple's dress wardrobe tag = states it is=20 the harness dress and that it was worn by Kate.
 
Jennie said the European Tour prototype dress is lacking a lot = of=20 details from the film costume.  She has seen the photos and talked = with a=20 person who inspected it at the exhibit.  The medallions on the = bottom are=20 shorted in number (only two medallions) and they we not made in the same = fashion=20 as the films.
 
Jennie also said the dress in the Fox Vault is missing the overlay = and only=20 has the underskirt.
 
Just for a side note... the vintage dress that the Jump Dress = was made=20 from was sold to the film by Suzi's Antiques from Farmville, VA.  = Remember=20 Suzi and her mother were murdered a couple of years ago.  Suzi = stated on=20 our local news that she had sold the film the antique dress.  = I have a=20 transcript of the interview.  In a memorial article in People = magazine,=20 they stated that Suzi sold the Jump Dress to the film.
 
An insider in the vintage industry told me that a lot of the = antique=20 clothing sold to the film was sold back to the dealers.  In = return the=20 dealers had to promise that they would not sell the items as that they = were not=20 in the film.  Now if this is true, I bet my bottom = dollar, that Suzi's=20 children would not sell that dress since Suzi received so much publicity = for=20 it.  
 
Swim Dress...
 
Jennie has documented that there were several copies of the swim=20 dress.  I believe she said there were up to 27 copies of the dress = made=20 because of the wear and tear of the dress in the water.  This = information=20 was on the exhibit card for the swim dress in 1998 U.S. = tour. This is=20 one of Jennie's favorite dresses from the film.  I was with her=20 when she inspected the Swim Dress.  I received permission from = Paramont to photograph the exhibit's collection for my website.  = Jennie is=20 really good at looking at costumes and knowing exactly how they are made = and=20 textiles used.  She spent about 30 minutes inspecting the Swim = Dress. =20
 
If you want more information about Titanic's costumes you can = go to=20 Jennie's website:
http://www.sensibil= ity.com/titanic/index.htm
OR my website:
http://www.c= ostumegallery.com/Titanic/Costumes.html 
 
If you are interested in my 1912 film costumes, "Costume Analysis = of Four=20 Films Set in 1912-1914" class go to:
www.costumeclassroom.com&nbs= p;=20  class begins March 9.
 
FYI: Jennie and I composed this email together. 
 
On last thing... I am leaving out of town shortly to do some = research at=20 the Library of Congress.  I will not be back until Sunday.  If = you=20 have questions or comments, please email me directly... but remember, I = won't be=20 home until Sunday.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
 
------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C2C8B5.039000C0-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 23:11:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07564 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:11:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4D1tv015688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4D1gI001951; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4CogI001843 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:12:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2003013104124300100874tee>; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 04:12:44 +0000 Message-ID: <007a01c2c8de$fe706970$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <3E399B8B.4080202@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book and bookseller of interest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:12:36 -0800 Status: RO Thanks for posting this, Fran. What time periods does the book cover? I couldn't tell from the book description. - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 23:12:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07574 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:12:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4CItv015606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4CIgI001684; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from ohsmtp02.ogw.rr.com (ohsmtp02.ogw.rr.com [65.24.7.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4BUgI001432 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from jamie (dhcp024-209-059-119.neo.rr.com [24.209.59.119]) by ohsmtp02.ogw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h0V4BUHk016780 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:11:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001101c2c8de$d1f34070$773bd118@jamie> From: "ailith" To: References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3E39F184.C14D831@rcn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:11:21 -0500 Status: RO Does anyone have an image of Bronzino's portrait of Laura Battiferri that they're willing to share? I can't find my Italian-language book about Bronzino and it's the only one with her in it. Thanks! kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 23:15:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07587 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:15:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4H0tv015949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4H0gI003132; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4GagI003013 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:16:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A8A4ED5C012C; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:16:36 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id A8A221F30146; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:16:34 -0600 Message-ID: <009401c2c8df$a30b8aa0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <171.19f64318.2b6b104f@aol.com> <008701c2c8bc$0ae08b90$37c1adcb@michaela> <007a01c2c8de$ecd3e5c0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0090_01C2C8B5.B9E19640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:17:15 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01C2C8B5.B9E19640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry... that is Jennie has NOT re-subbed to h-costume since the baby was born and her move. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny Ladnier To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Jennie Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic dress... Jennie Chancey and I have heavily researched Rose's costumes from Titanic. Jennie is more knowledgeable than I. She has re-subbed to h-costume since the baby was born and her move. So I will tell you what she has passed on to me. Jennie says there are four Jump dresses: 1. the original worn in the film owned by a couple in New Jersey 2. the antique dress sold to the film by Suzi's Antiques 3. a prototype for the European Titanic Costume Tour (it was not in the U.S. tour) 4. one in the Fox Vault The original owners of the actual jump dress and the sinking coat that were used in the film are owned by a couple in New Jersey. Jennie and I have become really good friends with them and have met on several occasions. The couple were my guests at the Red Cross Ball last August. Jennie is working on writing a book about their costumes. The couple have heavy documentation that both costumes were the ones IN the film including a letter from Deborah Scott, the film's costume designer. They purchased the costumes directly from J. Peterman, prior to the showing of the sell on the Today Show. I have seen the video from the show and J. Peterman states that he had sold the original dress before the airing of the show. Jennie and I have been advising the couple about photography, storage and security for the costumes. They also own a J. Peterman's reproduction of the sinking coat to fit the wife of the couple. I have inspected it and had the wonderful opportunity to try it on. The couple stated that the reproduction sinking coat is not as detailed the original. I have photos of the reproduction's details in my online class that I teach about Titanic's costumes. Jennie and I have also seen detailed professional photographs of both costumes. I advised the owners how to dress the costumes for photographing and I will be the dresser for the costumes if they do go on exhibit. Both costumes have very stunning detail work on them. The original jump dress has a tear in a specific place that Deborah Scott documented in the letter to the couple as the original in the film. I have seen in person and read the entire letter. Kate tore dress in the Jump scene in a specific location. I have seen the photographs and MS. Scott's description matches perfectly. The original owners have been aware of all the goings on to sell the other dress that has been showing up for sell. The original owners have NO intentions of selling their costumes. They have spoke with several *people* about the authicently of this dress that is floating around. Jennie has been writing me about the eBay dress. The dress from the other auction was returned. The details on the ebay or other auction dress is no where close to the original. Jennie and the couple are very upset that this *dress* has popped up again. The person who purchased the dress from Odessy Auctions last year, contacted Jennie. He said that he returned the dress after he discovered that it still had a J. Peterman's reproduction garment tag. This purchaser also contacted the owner's of the original film gown. The harness dress was the one worn by Kate throughout the scenes. It was originally worn made for her double but Kate decided to do her own stunts. The New Jersey couple's dress wardrobe tag states it is the harness dress and that it was worn by Kate. Jennie said the European Tour prototype dress is lacking a lot of details from the film costume. She has seen the photos and talked with a person who inspected it at the exhibit. The medallions on the bottom are shorted in number (only two medallions) and they we not made in the same fashion as the films. Jennie also said the dress in the Fox Vault is missing the overlay and only has the underskirt. Just for a side note... the vintage dress that the Jump Dress was made from was sold to the film by Suzi's Antiques from Farmville, VA. Remember Suzi and her mother were murdered a couple of years ago. Suzi stated on our local news that she had sold the film the antique dress. I have a transcript of the interview. In a memorial article in People magazine, they stated that Suzi sold the Jump Dress to the film. An insider in the vintage industry told me that a lot of the antique clothing sold to the film was sold back to the dealers. In return the dealers had to promise that they would not sell the items as that they were not in the film. Now if this is true, I bet my bottom dollar, that Suzi's children would not sell that dress since Suzi received so much publicity for it. Swim Dress... Jennie has documented that there were several copies of the swim dress. I believe she said there were up to 27 copies of the dress made because of the wear and tear of the dress in the water. This information was on the exhibit card for the swim dress in 1998 U.S. tour. This is one of Jennie's favorite dresses from the film. I was with her when she inspected the Swim Dress. I received permission from Paramont to photograph the exhibit's collection for my website. Jennie is really good at looking at costumes and knowing exactly how they are made and textiles used. She spent about 30 minutes inspecting the Swim Dress. If you want more information about Titanic's costumes you can go to Jennie's website: http://www.sensibility.com/titanic/index.htm OR my website: http://www.costumegallery.com/Titanic/Costumes.html If you are interested in my 1912 film costumes, "Costume Analysis of Four Films Set in 1912-1914" class go to: www.costumeclassroom.com class begins March 9. FYI: Jennie and I composed this email together. On last thing... I am leaving out of town shortly to do some research at the Library of Congress. I will not be back until Sunday. If you have questions or comments, please email me directly... but remember, I won't be home until Sunday. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01C2C8B5.B9E19640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry... that is Jennie has NOT re-subbed to h-costume since the = baby was=20 born and her move. 
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Penny=20 Ladnier
Cc: Jennie
Sent: Thursday, January 30, = 2003 11:12=20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Titanic=20 dress...

Jennie Chancey and I have heavily researched Rose's costumes from = Titanic.  Jennie is more knowledgeable than I.  She has = re-subbed to=20 h-costume since the baby was born and her move.  So I will tell = you what=20 she has passed on to me.
 
Jennie says there are four Jump dresses:
1. the original worn in the film owned by a couple in New = Jersey
2. the antique dress sold to the film by Suzi's Antiques
3. a prototype for the European Titanic Costume Tour (it was not = in the=20 U.S. tour)
4. one in the Fox Vault
 
The original owners of the actual jump dress and the sinking=20 coat that were used in the film are owned by a couple in New = Jersey.  Jennie and I have become really good friends with them = and have=20 met on several occasions.  The couple were my guests at the Red = Cross=20 Ball last August.  Jennie is working on writing a book about = their=20 costumes.  The couple have heavy documentation that both = costumes=20 were the ones IN the film including a letter from Deborah Scott, = the=20 film's costume designer.  They purchased the costumes directly = from J.=20 Peterman, prior to the showing of the sell on the Today = Show.  I=20 have seen the video from the show and J. Peterman states that he had = sold the=20 original dress before the airing of the show.  Jennie and I have = been=20 advising the couple about photography, storage and security for = the=20 costumes.  They also own a J. Peterman's reproduction of the = sinking coat=20 to fit the wife of the couple.  I have inspected it and = had the=20 wonderful opportunity to try it on.  The couple stated that the=20 reproduction sinking coat is not as detailed the original.  I = have photos=20 of the reproduction's details in my online class that I teach = about=20 Titanic's costumes.   Jennie and I have also seen = detailed=20 professional photographs of both costumes.  I advised the owners = how to=20 dress the costumes for photographing and I will be the dresser for the = costumes if they do go on exhibit.  Both costumes have very = stunning=20 detail work on them.  The original jump dress has a tear in a = specific=20 place that Deborah Scott documented in the letter to the = couple as the=20 original in the film.  I have seen in person and read the entire=20 letter.  Kate tore dress in the Jump scene in a specific=20 location.  I have seen the photographs and MS. Scott's = description=20 matches perfectly.
 
The original owners have been aware of all the goings on to sell = the=20 other dress that has been showing up for sell.  The original = owners=20 have NO intentions of selling their costumes. =  They have spoke=20 with several *people* about the authicently of this dress that is = floating=20 around.  Jennie has been writing me about the eBay = dress. The dress=20 from the other auction was returned.   The details = on the=20 ebay or other auction dress is no where close to the = original. =20 Jennie and the couple are very upset that this *dress* has popped up=20 again.  The person who purchased the dress from Odessy Auctions = last=20 year, contacted Jennie.  He said that he returned the dress after = he=20 discovered that it still had a J. Peterman's reproduction garment = tag. This purchaser also contacted the owner's of the = original=20 film gown. 
 
The harness dress was the one worn by Kate throughout the = scenes. =20 It was originally worn made for her double but Kate decided to do = her own=20 stunts.  The New Jersey couple's dress wardrobe tag = states it=20 is the harness dress and that it was worn by Kate.
 
Jennie said the European Tour prototype dress is lacking a = lot of=20 details from the film costume.  She has seen the photos and = talked with a=20 person who inspected it at the exhibit.  The medallions on the = bottom are=20 shorted in number (only two medallions) and they we not made in the = same=20 fashion as the films.
 
Jennie also said the dress in the Fox Vault is missing the = overlay and=20 only has the underskirt.
 
Just for a side note... the vintage dress that the Jump = Dress was=20 made from was sold to the film by Suzi's Antiques from Farmville, = VA. =20 Remember Suzi and her mother were murdered a couple of years = ago.  Suzi=20 stated on our local news that she had sold the film the antique=20 dress.  I have a transcript of the interview.  In a memorial = article=20 in People magazine, they stated that Suzi sold the Jump Dress to the=20 film.
 
An insider in the vintage industry told me that a lot of the = antique=20 clothing sold to the film was sold back to the dealers.  In = return=20 the dealers had to promise that they would not sell the items as that = they=20 were not in the film.  Now if this is true, I bet my bottom=20 dollar, that Suzi's children would not sell that dress since Suzi = received so much publicity for it.  
 
Swim Dress...
 
Jennie has documented that there were several copies of the swim=20 dress.  I believe she said there were up to 27 copies of the = dress made=20 because of the wear and tear of the dress in the water.  This = information=20 was on the exhibit card for the swim dress in 1998 U.S. = tour. This=20 is one of Jennie's favorite dresses from the film.  I was with = her=20 when she inspected the Swim Dress.  I received permission = from=20 Paramont to photograph the exhibit's collection for my website.  = Jennie=20 is really good at looking at costumes and knowing exactly how they are = made=20 and textiles used.  She spent about 30 minutes inspecting the = Swim=20 Dress. 
 
If you want more information about Titanic's costumes you = can go to=20 Jennie's website:
http://www.sensibil= ity.com/titanic/index.htm
OR my website:
http://www.c= ostumegallery.com/Titanic/Costumes.html 
 
If you are interested in my 1912 film costumes, "Costume Analysis = of Four=20 Films Set in 1912-1914" class go to:
www.costumeclassroom.com&nbs= p;=20  class begins March 9.
 
FYI: Jennie and I composed this email together. 
 
On last thing... I am leaving out of town shortly to do some = research at=20 the Library of Congress.  I will not be back until Sunday.  = If you=20 have questions or comments, please email me directly... but remember, = I won't=20 be home until Sunday.
 
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume = Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =
http://www.costumeclassroom.com<= /A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co= m
 
------=_NextPart_000_0090_01C2C8B5.B9E19640-- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 23:29:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07620 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:29:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4U1tv016626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4U0gI007158; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:30:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail5.kc.rr.com (fe5.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4T5gI006893 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail5.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:22:49 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001101c2c8de$d1f34070$773bd118@jamie> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:34:20 -0600 Status: RO Is this it?? http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/1555_1.shtml Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of ailith Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:11 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image Does anyone have an image of Bronzino's portrait of Laura Battiferri that they're willing to share? I can't find my Italian-language book about Bronzino and it's the only one with her in it. Thanks! kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 23:30:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07633 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:30:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4W1tv016771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4W1gI007944; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4VMgI007778 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-uive9mn.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.38.215] helo=[165.247.41.148]) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18eSpk-0003U2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:31:22 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michiko@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: michiko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] V is for Victory, er, or something Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:21:43 -0500 Status: RO Hi! Just a side thought: would be funny to design special gloves or armwear to allow one to give the V-sign (either the nice or not-nice version) more effectively. Perhaps a very bright color on one side, to make it perfectly clear which way the palm is facing from a far-off distance.. :) (File this under 'visual problems that did not need to be solved' :) Now off to check out Leif og Bjarne Drew's clay dolls, hopping back online... Thanks for the lively discussion and er, education! Best, Michiko -- ---------------------------------------- Michiko Stehrenberger Illustration & Character Design BimBionic Design Lab | New York http://www.michiko.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 23:36:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07639 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:36:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4c2tv017003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4c0gI009677; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4bwgI009659 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:37:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-uive9mn.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.38.215] helo=[165.247.41.148]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18eSw8-0000v4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:37:57 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michiko@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: michiko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Anyone need anything from Vienna? & Question about ballgown colors/satins? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:41:14 -0500 Status: RO Hi again! By the way, thanks for all the help and encouragement on Vienna Opera Ball-related matters so far... While I'm at it, is there anything anyone needs/wants brought back from there? I'm only there for 2-3 days, including prep for the Ball, and don't know what kind of transportation I'll have, but if there's something that can be picked up for you, I'll be back in NYC after that and can well, um, mail it to you from the States (perhaps this isn't that helpful an idea, but just thought I'd offer :) Just a quick asking of your opinion... I'm assuming the dresses of the Vienna Ball days (1800s -- er, not sure what period of the 1800s would be most appropriate) were white? I was going to go with that but realize I look pasty enough as it is, given this winter :) In your opinion, are bright colors too flashy for the period (were they still going against the earlier excesses in dress of the French monarchy, or were they not as affected in Austria?) or were deep reds, corals, lilacs, rust oranges (just because these would go with my winter complexion) likely and/or acceptable, if you happen to know? I'm not sure how fancy to go with this -- assuming I don't want bridal satin all over (don't want to look like a wedding cake -- or do I?) but are plain textures (cottons, backsides of satin, etc.) in vivid colors acceptable? Also, I've got to figure out (soon!) how danceable this dress needs to be...we're supposed to do the fast Vienna waltz, so I'm thinking I'll be sweating like a hog (sorry to be blunt) and probably want to keep a certain athletic countenance in mind -- big armholes, etc. For instance, I tried out stretch velvet tonight in a gym class (unrelated to the dress) and found it to be a challenge. Any of you who ballroom dance and wouldn't mind commenting on any design details I might need to adjust for this...that would be great - thanks! I realize back then they danced in corsets and probably fainted regularly (hearts being compressed into ribs and such :) and sure, I can be historically accurate by doing the same...but if at all possible I'd prefer to be somewhat modern in at least one sense :) Thank you for any thoughts on this! Best, Michiko P.S. Silly me, I tried attaching a sketch of my dress design earlier and didn't realize it would get bounced back, sorry about that! So in case anyone's interested in commenting (I know it ain't perfect -- it has some modern twists to it, but I'm hoping to capture the essence of the dress from that era if I still can -- and I'd love any feedback before I start buying the fabrics tomorrow) I've got the preliminary gown design here now: http://www.michiko.com/download/Michiko-ViennaDress1.JPG I know you all have better things to do....so if you have time to get around to it...thanks! :) If not, no worries! :) -- ---------------------------------------- Michiko Stehrenberger Illustration & Character Design BimBionic Design Lab | New York http://www.michiko.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Thu Jan 30 23:43:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07653 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:43:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4j2tv017450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4j1gI011934; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V4iNgI011727 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:44:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-uive9mn.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.38.215] helo=[165.247.41.148]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18eT2K-0000oK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:44:22 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michiko@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030131041201.1588.86718.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030131041201.1588.86718.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: michiko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] clay doll - wowee! Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:47:41 -0500 Status: RO The clay doll looks great! I love her personality! Would love to see it as you bring her further along (hope you don't mind my living vicariously through you :) Best, Michiko -- ---------------------------------------- Michiko Stehrenberger Illustration & Character Design BimBionic Design Lab | New York http://www.michiko.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 00:04:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07738 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:04:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V563tv018587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V561gI018021; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from b.smtp-out.sonic.net (b.smtp-out.sonic.net [208.201.224.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0V55bgI017925 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:05:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4631 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2003 05:05:36 -0000 Received: from prop.sonic.net (208.201.224.193) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2003 05:05:36 -0000 Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-112.sonic.net [209.148.112.112]) by prop.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id h0V55ZA01522 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:05:36 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3E3A043C.5070304@lavoltapress.com> From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book and bookseller of interest References: <3E399B8B.4080202@lavoltapress.com> <007a01c2c8de$fe706970$befc8218@hopperflop2> In-Reply-To: <007a01c2c8de$fe706970$befc8218@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:06:04 -0800 Status: RO Circa 1640 to 1960. However, there is not much emphasis on the 20th century after the mid 1910s. Fran Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > Thanks for posting this, Fran. What time periods does the book cover? I > couldn't tell from the book description. > > - Kendra > -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and vintage dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 00:32:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07815 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:32:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V5Y2tv020049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V5Y1gI026026; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com [65.24.7.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V5XBgI025759 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:33:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from jamie (dhcp024-209-059-119.neo.rr.com [24.209.59.119]) by ohsmtp03.ogw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h0V5XALg019662 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:33:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002c01c2c8ea$3aca63c0$773bd118@jamie> From: "ailith" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:32:59 -0500 Status: RO Yes, that's her. I'm looking for an image that I can archive for later use on my website. I was hoping for one that I can actually use... Maybe I'll just wait til I can go to the Medici exhibit when it gets to Detroit. Hopefully there will be postcards of her. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talia" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:34 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image > Is this it?? > > http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/1555_1.shtml > > Talia > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On > Behalf Of ailith > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:11 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image > > > Does anyone have an image of Bronzino's portrait of Laura Battiferri that > they're willing to share? I can't find my Italian-language book about > Bronzino and it's the only one with her in it. > > Thanks! > kate > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 00:51:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07873 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:51:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V5r3tv020735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V5r1gI000877; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V5qfgI000785 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:52:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-64.152.171.109.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([64.152.171.109] helo=earthlink.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18eU6R-0007m8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:52:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3E3A0F38.6080209@earthlink.net> From: AF Murphy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] wig examination offer (heh), References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030127191723.03859eb0@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:52:56 -0500 Status: RO It's not really a showroom. I haven't been there in a few years, but... It's upstairs in an office building in the garment district. You go in, and stop at a desk in this big warehouse sort of room. If you know what you want, fine, they'll get it for you. If not, you can look at the catalog. If you have to guess, they'll get something, and put it back and get something else... or bring out a couple of choices that seem likely. Very nice about it. This is pretty typical for businesses in the area. Most of their business isn't walk ins, but people like Pierre and Sandy, or the rental house I first went there for. These are Costume Wigs, not street wear wigs, so most customers are somehow in the business, or at least very familiar with it, and pretty much know what they want. I don't have the hours handy - call them up. I think it is pretty much normal office hours, 9-5 or 10-6, something like that. Definitely not Saturday, unless much has changed since I was last there! Hm. It's not too far from my normal rambles... probably time for me to look in again, just to pick up a new catalog... Anne Brenda Bell wrote: > > Did you notice whether or not they have a showroom? I know a lot of > mail-order places do *not* have either a showroom or a storefront; some > don't even have a place where they can show merchandise to walk-ins from > the trade... > >> >> > > Please let me know if there is, indeed, a showroom -- and if so, what > their hours are... > >> Lacey's Costume Wig >> 505 8TH AVE. 11TH FL NEW YORK NY 10018 > > > > Brenda > webwarren@earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 00:52:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07879 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:52:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V5s1tv020788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V5s1gI001147; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe31.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V5r1gI000848 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:52:55 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <200301302202.h0UM2wv26472@mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2003 05:52:55.0921 (UTC) FILETIME=[0064DE10:01C2C8ED] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:53:04 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baralier" > > N Kipar wrote: > > http://www.learntoquestion.com/data/churchill_victory.jpg > > > > Now imagine the hand turned the other way round with the back of the hand > > showing to the other person, and add waving the fingers towards you, > > similar to beckoning someone closer, but with those two V-opened fingers, > > and voila! You are being as rude as sticking out the middle finger alone. :-) > > That only works in Britain though! > > Trust me, there's enough British culture in Australia and New Zealand that doing > that to the wrong person is liable to result in having your head kicked in! > > Don't know about Canada but I assume they're aware of it there. I'm not. But then again I'm french-canadian. Sometimes that makes a BIG difference :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 00:59:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07923 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:59:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V612tv021038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V611gI002911; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe54.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V60AgI002584 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:00:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:00:05 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3E39F184.C14D831@rcn.com> <001101c2c8de$d1f34070$773bd118@jamie> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2003 06:00:05.0385 (UTC) FILETIME=[005FDF90:01C2C8EE] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:00:15 -0500 Status: RO Oh oh, do you remember if that book had a portrait of Laudomia de Medici? (If that book has other rare pics, why not that one ehehe :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "ailith" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image > Does anyone have an image of Bronzino's portrait of Laura Battiferri that > they're willing to share? I can't find my Italian-language book about > Bronzino and it's the only one with her in it. > > Thanks! > kate > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 00:59:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07927 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:59:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V61Htv021056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:01:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V61HgI003017; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:01:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.kc.rr.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V60YgI002675 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:00:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis ([24.31.233.125]) by mail3.kc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:57:37 -0600 From: "Talia" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002c01c2c8ea$3aca63c0$773bd118@jamie> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:05:50 -0600 Status: RO What about this one? http://www.gblgallery.com/images/exhibitions/00_gilje_project/c_Gilje_1999_l aura_battiferi_painting.jpg Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On Behalf Of ailith Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:33 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image Yes, that's her. I'm looking for an image that I can archive for later use on my website. I was hoping for one that I can actually use... Maybe I'll just wait til I can go to the Medici exhibit when it gets to Detroit. Hopefully there will be postcards of her. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talia" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:34 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image > Is this it?? > > http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/1555_1.shtml > > Talia > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On > Behalf Of ailith > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:11 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image > > > Does anyone have an image of Bronzino's portrait of Laura Battiferri that > they're willing to share? I can't find my Italian-language book about > Bronzino and it's the only one with her in it. > > Thanks! > kate > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 01:08:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07953 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:08:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V6A4tv021362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V6A2gI005243; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from ohsmtp02.ogw.rr.com (ohsmtp02.ogw.rr.com [65.24.7.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V69YgI005105 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from jamie (dhcp024-209-059-119.neo.rr.com [24.209.59.119]) by ohsmtp02.ogw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h0V69YHk014322 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:09:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000e01c2c8ef$504c93d0$773bd118@jamie> From: "ailith" To: References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3E39F184.C14D831@rcn.com> <001101c2c8de$d1f34070$773bd118@jamie> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:09:18 -0500 Status: RO unfortunately, it didn't. There wasn't even a photo of Laudomia in the Pitti catalog..sigh. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:00 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image > Oh oh, do you remember if that book had a portrait of Laudomia de Medici? > (If that book has other rare pics, why not that one ehehe :-) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ailith" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:11 PM > Subject: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image > > > > Does anyone have an image of Bronzino's portrait of Laura Battiferri that > > they're willing to share? I can't find my Italian-language book about > > Bronzino and it's the only one with her in it. > > > > Thanks! > > kate > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 02:14:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA12873 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:14:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V7G2tv023513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V7G0gI022324; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V7F7gI022115 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18eVOF-0005lu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:15:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3E3A22B1.2EA76732@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Hunnisett book References: <005101c2c87f$530a9740$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> <200301302139.11438.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:16:01 -0600 Status: RO > > Look what I found while I was searching for another book. > > > > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2XRR81O0 > >E Q&isbn=0887346707&itm=1 > Sorry, the URL above returned a message that said "Sorry, we have no such > books" when I tried it (and I even tried typing it in). > > What was the title? Sometimes you have to be a bit of a detective with URLs. :) The ISBN is in the URL and you can search B&N using that number (0887346707). --Charlene -- Thou shalt not bear false witness. But there are still plenty of true things that you can say to get your brother in trouble. -- Raymond Lesser, 20 Things I Learned from God (or voices inside my head, I'm not sure which, yet) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 02:28:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16214 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:28:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V7U3tv024158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V7U1gI025674; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:30:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V7TkgI025584 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:29:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from CharonLight@cs.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.68.2c63a34f (3924) for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:29:31 -0500 (EST) From: CharonLight@cs.com Message-ID: <68.2c63a34f.2b6b7fda@cs.com> Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 122 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:29:30 EST Status: RO New lurker un-lurking for a moment. :) > > Trust me, there's enough British culture in Australia and New Zealand that > doing > > that to the wrong person is liable to result in having your head kicked > in! > > > > Don't know about Canada but I assume they're aware of it there. > > > > Paul > > -- > > From my experience, only those of us who watch British TV. ^_^ Actually, the character Spike in Buffy the Vampire Slayer used to give that very two-fingered salute every time the opening credits ran for a couple of seasons. I always wondered how much ruder that seemed when the show ran in a country that used the gesture... ;) Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 02:48:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23976 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:48:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V7o2tv024911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V7o1gI000608; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe29.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V7nxgI000582 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:49:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:49:54 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3E39F184.C14D831@rcn.com> <001101c2c8de$d1f34070$773bd118@jamie> <000e01c2c8ef$504c93d0$773bd118@jamie> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2003 07:49:54.0257 (UTC) FILETIME=[57A5F410:01C2C8FD] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:50:00 -0500 Status: RO I know... All I was able to get from that catalog is the inventory # and such things. It's a start, though. I always told myself that if I found an email address I'd try to write the ppl at the museum, you never know... But I never found an email for that museum. I hear there's one reproduction in a book about portraits of the medici family, but I don't know which book, and I haven't gotten around to searching for it myself yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ailith" > unfortunately, it didn't. There wasn't even a photo of Laudomia in the Pitti > catalog..sigh. > > kate > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" > > > Oh oh, do you remember if that book had a portrait of Laudomia de Medici? > > (If that book has other rare pics, why not that one ehehe :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 03:17:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08493 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 03:17:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V8J3tv025889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V8J0gI007958; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com (web41510.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0V8I2gI007732 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:18:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030131081757.2774.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:17:57 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Michiko's web site, was Re: [h-cost] Anyone need anything from Vienna? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:17:57 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- michiko wrote: > Hi again! First of all, what a lovely design. It shows that you're a graphic designer/artist. :-) Mine are.... well, does the word abysmal explain what my costume drawings look like? *G* > I've got the preliminary gown design here now: > > http://www.michiko.com/download/Michiko-ViennaDress1.JPG > ---------------------------------------- > Michiko Stehrenberger > Illustration & Character Design > BimBionic Design Lab | New York > http://www.michiko.com > May I say 'everyone go to Michiko's web site and take a look at those great BimBionics!' I had a blast of a time, fantastic work. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 03:22:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11193 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 03:22:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V8O5tv026074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V8O1gI009116; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V8NngI009046 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:23:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id AAA04428 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:46:37 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200301310846.AAA04428@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] V is for Victory, er, or something Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:46:37 -0800 (PST) Status: RO michiko wrote: > > Just a side thought: would be funny to design special gloves or > armwear to allow one to give the V-sign (either the nice or not-nice > version) more effectively. > > Perhaps a very bright color on one side, to make it perfectly clear > which way the palm is facing from a far-off distance.. :) (File this > under 'visual problems that did not need to be solved' :) They already exist. Check out the second item on this page, "Flash Gloves." http://www.bandshoppe.com/html/guardgloves.html Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 03:42:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25440 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 03:42:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V8i2tv026660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V8i0gI013990; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:44:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41508.mail.yahoo.com (web41508.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0V8hmgI013910 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:43:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030131084343.75211.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:43:43 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] paper clay doll To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <002301c2c8b8$4f1ddcd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:43:43 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi. > As promised i have posted some pics of my first paper clay doll. > Dont laugh :-) > Hopefully the next ones gets better and better. But it is fun. > She is not dressed yeat > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/my_first_paper_clay_doll.htm Oh I love the face! I admire anyone who is able to craft anything in 3D. I am unable to do this, I can't think three-dimensionally. I think the doll is very lovely and it doesn't look like a first try at all. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 04:12:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16274 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 04:12:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V9E5tv027507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V9E2gI021057; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.170]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V9D8gI020821 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:13:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h0V9D2q04166 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:13:02 +1100 Message-ID: <023c01c2c909$2b8c5160$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Baralier" To: References: <68.2c63a34f.2b6b7fda@cs.com> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Obscene Period Gestures-(OT?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:14:30 +1100 Status: RO From: wrote... > > > Trust me, there's enough British culture in Australia and New Zealand that > > > doing that to the wrong person is liable to result in having your head kicked > > > in! > > > > > > Don't know about Canada but I assume they're aware of it there. > > > > From my experience, only those of us who watch British TV. ^_^ > > Actually, the character Spike in Buffy the Vampire Slayer used to give that > very two-fingered salute every time the opening credits ran for a couple of > seasons. I always wondered how much ruder that seemed when the show ran in a > country that used the gesture... ;) Well Spike was *supposed* to exude the British Punk attitude (sort of a cross between Billy Idol and John Lydon). If he wasn't offensive he wouldn't be a proper Punk would he :-) Paul -- It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder Costumier & Reprobate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 04:41:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09083 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 04:41:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V9h3tv028417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V9h1gI027955; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grunt6.ihug.co.nz (grunt6.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V9gUgI027754 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:42:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from p412-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.158] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18eXgl-0005EA-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:42:24 +1300 Message-ID: <001f01c2c90d$0c61d090$9ec1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3E39F184.C14D831@rcn.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] paper clay doll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:42:18 +1300 Status: RO Bjarne, I noticed on the page you mentioned you couldn't get red hair. I used natural mohair then stripped and dyed it for my dolls: http://recital.tripod.com/sketch all made pre 1998 btw. It's a really nice process actually, I find it more soothing than any other aspect of doll making;) Or costuming for that matter;) To strip it you take a small handfull of the hair, and comb it to remove tangles and it helps clean it a bit anyway. Then tie one end to secure all the strands and swish it about in a bowl with luke warm water, dishwashing liquid and methylated spirits. Yep, much liek the mixture for cleaning windows;) Rince it and then youa re ready to dye it:) For the mahogany coloured hair on my dolls I used two Dylon colours: bordeau and coffee, for the intesnsely yellow I used turmeric. Mohair is wonderful for dolls as the hair is so fine it looks well in proportion to the doll:) Looking forward to seeing the doll dressed:) michaela de bruce http://recital.tripod.com/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 06:05:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20606 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:05:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VB77tv001184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 04:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VB71gI015333; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 04:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VB6OgI015208 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 04:06:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9K00MDPS6MVC@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 03:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] paper clay doll In-reply-to: <001f01c2c90d$0c61d090$9ec1adcb@michaela> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030131024915.04e5e6a0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> <3E39F184.C14D831@rcn.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:51:27 -0800 Status: RO If I need real-looking hair for a doll, I get a wig from a second-hand store, and disassemble it for parts. Then I can make a wig any size I need, o maybe three or four, from the parts. Human hair wigs are much cheaper second-hand, and can be sanitized if you don't think they are clean enough. >Bjarne, I noticed on the page you mentioned you couldn't get red hair. I >used natural mohair then stripped and dyed it for my dolls: >http://recital.tripod.com/sketch all made pre 1998 btw. > >It's a really nice process actually, I find it more soothing than any other >aspect of doll making;) Or costuming for that matter;) > >To strip it you take a small handfull of the hair, and comb it to remove >tangles and it helps clean it a bit anyway. Then tie one end to secure all >the strands and swish it about in a bowl with luke warm water, dishwashing >liquid and methylated spirits. Yep, much liek the mixture for cleaning >windows;) >Rince it and then youa re ready to dye it:) > >For the mahogany coloured hair on my dolls I used two Dylon colours: bordeau >and coffee, for the intesnsely yellow I used turmeric. > >Mohair is wonderful for dolls as the hair is so fine it looks well in >proportion to the doll:) > >Looking forward to seeing the doll dressed:) > >michaela de bruce >http://recital.tripod.com/costume > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 06:58:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20743 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:58:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VC0Ltv003219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 05:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VC01gI028243; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 05:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VBxcgJ028157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 04:59:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0VCUOI3000600 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:30:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0VCUOYN000598 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:30:24 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone need anything from Vienna? & Question about ballgown colors/satins? User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200301310730.24215.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0VBxcgJ028157 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:30:24 -0500 Status: RO On Thursday 30 January 2003 11:41 pm, michiko wrote: [text cut here] > Just a quick asking of your opinion... I'm not a Victorian-era specialist, but here comes my opinion based upon my general costume-related reading. > I'm assuming the dresses of the Vienna Ball days (1800s -- er, not > sure what period of the 1800s would be most appropriate) were white? > I was going to go with that but realize I look pasty enough as it is, > given this winter :) It would depend on what decade/s of the 1800s you are shooting for. You need to pin that down before you can made a decision. Early in the century (say, 1800-1820 or so), white was an extremely popular color even for evening wear. Pastels tended to be favored for evening through the 1840s, I think. Mostly yellows, blues--but pink or lilac should be fine also. > In your opinion, are bright colors too flashy for the period (were > they still going against the earlier excesses in dress of the French > monarchy, or were they not as affected in Austria?) or were deep > reds, corals, lilacs, rust oranges (just because these would go with > my winter complexion) likely and/or acceptable, if you happen to know? That still depends what part of the 1800s you're shooting for. Aniline dyes were invented in the 1850s and swiftly became popular. By the mid 1860s, hardly any bright color (or combinations of same) were deemed too garish for fashion. Your deep reds, corals and lilacs should be fine for mid-century. I don't know about rust orange for evening, though--I think that was deemed primarily a day or afternoon color. I'm less sure about the 1870s and 1880s, though I think deep red was still just fine for evening gowns then. Light colors (light yellows, peaches, pinks) came back into vogue in the 1890s, if memory serves me. > I'm not sure how fancy to go with this -- assuming I don't want > bridal satin all over (don't want to look like a wedding cake -- or > do I?) but are plain textures (cottons, backsides of satin, etc.) in > vivid colors acceptable? You could, certainly, go for the wedding cake look and be in period--particularly for gowns (evening or day, for that matter) from the 1850s through most of the rest of the century. (The 1890s gowns, though cursed with ridiculously wide sleeve tops, was saner with regard to quantity of decoration). Lace, ribbons (either bows or ruched and sewed on in rows), tassels, beading, were commonplace. Lace basically came in only black, white and off-white, but contrasting fabrics and ribbons in any and every color might be used. You could go for less shiny fabrics and be acceptable (though that I'd really have to check). My server is down as I write this (I'm sending this after the fact), or I'd look for a URL or three for you. > Also, I've got to figure out (soon!) how danceable this dress needs > to be...we're supposed to do the fast Vienna waltz, so I'm thinking > I'll be sweating like a hog (sorry to be blunt) and probably want to > keep a certain athletic countenance in mind -- big armholes, etc. For > instance, I tried out stretch velvet tonight in a gym class > (unrelated to the dress) and found it to be a challenge. Any of you > who ballroom dance and wouldn't mind commenting on any design details > I might need to adjust for this...that would be great - thanks! If sweat is your concern, stick to natural fabrics. Cotton for the corset and other underwear. As for the gown, use silk if you can afford it, cotton if you can't. Stretch velvet probably didn't work for you because it's all or mostly man-made fiber and doesn't breathe. One thing you *could* do if you're making a dress in an 1850's or 1860's style is use natural fiber for the bodice, but a harmonizing (or even contrasting) fabric that looks like silk but is poly-whatever. In the dresses of that period, the crinoline keeps the skirts well away from your legs, so lack of breathability is less of an issue. Most evening gowns throughout the century are sleeveless or have tiny sleeves, though low armholes aren't particularly period. [text cut here] > I've got the preliminary gown design here now: > > http://www.michiko.com/download/Michiko-ViennaDress1.JPG I'd love to look--but as I'm typing this I have no Internet, and by the time I expect to send this, I'll barely have time to hit "send". But thanks... And good luck. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 08:50:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21328 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:50:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VDqGtv007761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VDq2gI025317; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:52:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VDoBgJ024863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18ebZp-0005Jp-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:51:29 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18ebYW-00064t-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:50:08 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: Catelli cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: where to go in Vienna In-Reply-To: <3E3729E1.F6F72D4F@rcn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:50:08 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Thanks for the advice, gelatin, never would have thought of that for hair. I just hope it doesn't rain the nights of the balls! My hair is about 3 1/2 feet long so there's a lot to play with. I need to distribute the weight of the hair and keep it well balanced. Katy On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Catelli wrote: >> From: Katy Bishop >> To: h-costume@indra.com >> Subject: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna >> Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >> Next week I am going to be in Vienna, Austria. I am going to a 19th >> Century dance week, with 2 grand balls, one Biedermeier (1815-1848) and >> the other Strauss (2nd half 19th c). Still haven't started my >> Biedermeier dress :~P , I do hope I can get it done in time. I have a >> lovely blue and gold shot taffeta to work with. Now if only I could >> figure out how to gel my hair into huge bow loops. > >This is for your 1830's outfit, right? Something like an Apollo knot? >Sometimes braids were dressed like the smooth loops often shown. >Pull your back hair to your crown. >Braid it in several braids, possibly along with some soft wire (bend the end in so your scalp >is safe from it). I think armature wire might work, but try stopping by a beauty supply store, >because if they have something to hold the hair in place, that would be best for the effect and >for the hair. >Loop the braids in an 1830's madness sort of way. > >The front hair can also be braided or frizzed all to heck & brought up to the high bun/looped >tentacles thing. > >Add wire-edged ribbons in excessive profusion to the upper loops >Add artificial flowers &/or decorative insects, animals, birds. > > >> I am almost finished >> with the 2 1860 gowns I am making for the Austrian dance teacher and her >> assistant. > >I hope to see pictures of the gowns at some point. >You do such lovely work. > >> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions of where to shop (cloth >> trims antiques) or if there are any museums with costumes to recommend. >> >> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > >I don't know from Vienna, but have one bite of pastry for me--you & Ben will be dancing enough >to take the calories back off. > >Ann in CT > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 08:57:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21347 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:57:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VDx7tv008049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VDwegI027003; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VDsigJ025978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18ebdx-0005sP-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:55:45 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18ebcf-0006Lo-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:54:25 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna In-Reply-To: <20030129014902.91125.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:54:25 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Thanks, that was one stop I had planned on if time permits, I will have to skip dance classes in order to do any sightseeing. The dance schedule is much too full. I believe that museum also has a library at least which is costume related, I found mention of it on a website. I never seem to be in European cities when there are exhibits of costumes, I was in Florence when the Pallazzo Pitti was under renovations, I was in Paris when the costume museum was closed..... Sigh. I did get to catch an exhibit of paisley shawls in Brussels once Katy On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Bella wrote: > --- Katy Bishop wrote: > > >> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions of >> where to shop (cloth trims antiques) or if there are >> any museums with costumes to recommend. > > > >Well, if it were me going to Vienna (you are so >lucky!) I would make my first stop the >Kunsthistorisches Museum. I don't think they have >costumes, but they do have lots of art. Currently they >have three exhibitions running, the most relevant of >which is probably... > >"THESAURI POLONIAE - The Treasures of Poland >This exhibition will be the first survey of Polish >treasures dating from the Late Middle Ages to the >period of the Enlightenment. Artworks on loan from, >for example, the National Museums in Warsaw and >Gdansk, and the Ecclesiastical Treasury, and the >Historical Museum in Cracow will be on show." > >Of course there are many works of art from the 15th >century onwards - much more than they show in their >online collections: > > > >Personally, I would devour every Venetian portrait in >the place - there are lots of Palma Vecchio paintings >there. I would love to be in your shoes. :) > > >Have fun, stay safe, > >Bella > > > >http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies >- What's on at your local cinema? >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 09:34:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21558 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:34:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VEXouH009449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VEDSgI000558; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.primushost.com (relay2.primushost.com [207.244.125.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VE58gJ028477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:05:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18ebo6-0007EK-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:06:14 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18ebmm-0006vZ-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:04:52 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: Bjarne og Leif Drews cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna In-Reply-To: <001901c2c7a4$dcc38400$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0VE58gJ028477 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:04:52 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Hi, thanks, I hope we have time to get to Schonbrunn, I remember it from when I was about 8 years old. I love Empress Elizabeth and would like to see her portrait again (my hair is 3 1/2 feet long and I would like to recreate some of her portraits with her flowing long hair). My mother is from Vienna, and my Father is from Budapest, so ever since I started vintage dancing 12 years ago I have wanted to dance in Vienna. It will be a maghical and exhausting week. My 1830's gown is 1/2 done, with lots of handwork remaning. I hate the idea of stuffing the puffed sleeves in a suitcase. Katy On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Dear Kathy. >Oh you must go and se Castle Schönbrunn. I dont think they have any costumes >to show, but my.......... there are a lot of beautifull portraits and >interiors to see. It is the home of the Habsburg family. Marie Antoinette >was born there. >Wish i could go with you, Wienna is high on my list two. >There is a charming old Coffe Shop. I think it is more than 200 years old. >Dont miss to have your Tea or Coffe there. >Wish you a wonderfull trip!!! >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Katy Bishop" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:43 AM >Subject: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna > > >> >> Next week I am going to be in Vienna, Austria. I am going to a 19th >> Century dance week, with 2 grand balls, one Biedermeier (1815-1848) and >> the other Strauss (2nd half 19th c). Still haven't started my >> Biedermeier dress :~P , I do hope I can get it done in time. I have a >> lovely blue and gold shot taffeta to work with. Now if only I could >> figure out how to gel my hair into huge bow loops. I am almost finished >> with the 2 1860 gowns I am making for the Austrian dance teacher and her >> assistant. >> >> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions of where to shop (cloth >> trims antiques) or if there are any museums with costumes to recommend. >> >> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian >> vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com >> Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. >> Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 10:25:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21888 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:25:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFQ5tv013128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:26:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFQ0bj025004; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mackie.com (mail1.mackie.com [12.144.237.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFPsbj024943 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:25:55 -0700 (MST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Expensive fabrics on the web? Thread-Index: AcLJPQcH3nxTaWsxR6ukYZWwOUhk/w== From: "Colleen McDonald" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h0VFPsbj024943 Subject: [h-cost] Expensive fabrics on the web? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:25:46 -0800 Status: RO Hi everyone - This question is barely on topic, but I hope that you'll indulge me. Someone I know of had their home burned by an arsonist. As if that weren't bad enough, the insurance company is giving them quite a bit of grief over the claim. They don't believe that imported silk fabric could cost over $25/yard. I was wondering if those on the list could send me any links that they might have to internet sites which show fabrics in this price range and above. I tend to shop on a budget and haven't kept the URL's for any sites in this range. Thank you for any help you can give. Colleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 10:27:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21941 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:27:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFT0tv013403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFT0bj026146; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:29:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFS3bj025793 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18ed5G-0007Mk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:28:03 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000001c2c93d$6142a1e0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200301302202.h0UM2wv26472@mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Death Masks-authenticity? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:28:15 -0700 Status: RO Sg Do any of our members know whether the death masks of Mary Queen of Scots http://www.thornhillcollege.org.uk/DissolvingBoundaries/newpage2.htm and others are real? I saw one of Queen Elizabeth the other day on the internet (of course I can't find it now) and was puzzling to myself that both it and the above one make the subject look awfully young. Are there others? Like those of Henry V111, his wives, and other children? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 10:44:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22342 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:44:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFjKtv014688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:45:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFjEbj003357; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:45:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0VFiBbj002828 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:44:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmVSceFhOfgCmjaLpRCeNLK1zYpFjjbNcg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPU5J4CS; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:43:12 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Expensive fabrics on the web? Message-ID: <20030131.094308.-323261.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:43:07 -0600 Status: RO Here are a few of my sources: http://www.mperkins.com/index.htm http://www.easternchristian.com/page191.html http://www.farthingales.on.ca/linen.php (this one has linen for $40 a yard!) http://www.srfabrics.com/silks/othersilks.htm Go get 'em! Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 10:49:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22364 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:49:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFp2tv015192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFp1bj006042; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.siscom.net (mail2.siscom.net [209.251.18.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0VFoPbj005691 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:50:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 75764 invoked by uid 1005); 31 Jan 2003 15:50:20 -0000 Received: from drea@nospam by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (f-prot: 3.12. Clear:. Processed in 0.357503 secs); 31 Jan 2003 15:50:20 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: drea@nospam X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.14 (Clear:. Processed in 0.357503 secs) Received: from shell.siscom.net (209.251.2.80) by mail.siscom.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2003 15:50:19 -0000 From: Drea Leed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Expensive fabrics on the web? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030131104211.R39843-100000@shell.siscom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:50:22 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Yeesh. Insurance companies. Check out Bevilacqua for the truly stratospheric prices (http://www.luigi-bevilacqua.com/english/catalog.html), and for more reasonable $30-$60/yard check out Designer Fabrics in Toronto (aka the Orange Bag Store), at http://www.designerfabrics.to . Even accounting for the bargain canadian prices will get you, they're way above the $25/yd mark. If she can persuade the insurance company to do their job and research the prices of the things they're insuring, she can point them to G Street Fabrics, which carries a vast variety of silk fabrics at an average retail price for them in America. My sympathies--I can't even imagine how horrible losing all my fabrics and sewing supplies would be. Drea On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Colleen McDonald wrote: > Hi everyone - > > This question is barely on topic, but I hope that you'll indulge me. Someone I know of had their home burned by an arsonist. As if that weren't bad enough, the insurance company is giving them quite a bit of grief over the claim. They don't believe that imported silk fabric could cost over $25/yard. > > I was wondering if those on the list could send me any links that they might have to internet sites which show fabrics in this price range and above. I tend to shop on a budget and haven't kept the URL's for any sites in this range. > > Thank you for any help you can give. > > Colleen > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 10:59:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22411 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:59:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG14tv015945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG11bj010959; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG0qbj010844 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:00:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18edb1-0005tK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:00:51 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] paper clay doll Message-ID: <000701c2c941$f67894f0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00d101c2c8b9$bc41a980$18a231d2@valadan> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:01:04 -0700 Status: RO It looks great Bjarne! My only suggestion is that you try to make your body a little more in the shape of the 'look' of the gown you will dress her with and stuff it really well. She needs fullness where there would be muscles etc. or she will look flat. The body should be very firm to the touch, otherwise, someday you will come home and she will look like she wilted! Great first try-I didn't realize how many of us were interested in doll making! Can't wait to see her dressed. Keep us posted! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 11:04:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22455 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:04:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG62tv016383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG61bj013429; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG5Kbj013032 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:05:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net11sp246.directcon.net [206.170.184.246] (may be forged)) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h0VG4Y69001068; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:04:36 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030131080820.00b9f700@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone need anything from Vienna? & Question about ballgown colors/satins? In-Reply-To: <200301310730.24215.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:08:20 -0800 Status: RO > >> I'm assuming the dresses of the Vienna Ball days (1800s -- er, not >> sure what period of the 1800s would be most appropriate) were white? >> I was going to go with that but realize I look pasty enough as it is, >> given this winter :) I may be off base here, but isn't the Vienna Ball a debutante ball? If that's the case, it would probably be more correct for non debutantes NOT to wear white. Margo "One Tough Costumer" See the newly updated Historic Costume Patterns website at margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 11:07:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22482 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:07:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG92tv016606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG91bj015042; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21407.mail.yahoo.com (web21407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.232.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0VG87bj014587 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:08:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030131160801.4985.qmail@web21407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.187.14.181] by web21407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:08:01 PST From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Expensive fabrics on the web? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:08:01 -0800 (PST) Status: RO As another friend of said arson victim, may I add emphasis to this request? The insurance company in question is behaving even more abominally than the one I had to deal with on my (non-arson) house fire. Angharat __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 11:07:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22487 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:07:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG96tv016617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VG96bj015082; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net (smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net [206.210.69.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0VG8bbj014824 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:08:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23780 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2003 16:08:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bookbusiness) (208.166.66.182) by smtp-int-01.mx.pitdc1.stargate.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2003 16:08:35 -0000 Message-ID: <000701c2c943$06e24880$b642a6d0@bookbusiness> From: "Janet Davis" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Expensive fabrics on the web? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:08:28 -0500 Status: RO These are all places that I've bookmarked mainly to dream over. Your question made a nice excuse to go back and visit them. Janet http://www.arabiannights.ca/silk-bulk.htm This place has brocade at $100 per meter. http://www.designerfabrics.to/fabrics.html They have some embroidered silk at $62 per yard that I really lust for. http://www.hansson-silks.co.uk/catalogue/ They have beautiful brocades at 29 GBP per meter. http://www.silktrading.com/content/index.htm The decorating silk they carry seems to start around $30 a yard and go up over $100. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 11:08:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22497 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:08:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VGA0tv016688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VGA0bj015481; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0VG9Sbj015190 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:09:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmVSceFhOfgCpTjQ3jxGAJ5kMp4GUdZ3vg=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPU6ZAM9; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:08:26 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] paper clay doll Message-ID: <20030131.100754.-323261.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-10 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:07:53 -0600 Status: RO In shameless burst of self promotion: Costume Con 21 will have both a doll costume display area and several classes on aspects of doll creation and customization. Just in case anyone needs more reaons to come to the con....hint*hint* http://www.jennifarse.com/cc2003/ Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 11:59:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22837 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:59:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VH03tv021828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VH01bj011327; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0VGxLbj010970 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:59:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWuCR7BTrzIgGUccj9PqBMRUFfxLmvbyHkg=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPU9VPCV; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:58:53 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Death Masks-authenticity? Message-ID: <20030131.115812.-218749.0.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-6 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:58:12 -0500 Status: RO The death mask of Mary Stuart is real (she is my main research these days as I have been asked to play her at an event in March). She was only 44 when she was beheaded, so she wasn't very old (I am 68 and much to old to play her). When you lie down on your back, the wrinkles on your face tend to smooth out and in death all muscles are relaxed. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 12:00:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22864 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:00:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VH21tv022019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VH20bj012449; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jumpjuno2.lax.untd.com (m28.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0VH1Lbj011998 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:01:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"IEJtIXEoMt9Fq70fgd9pWuCR7BTrzIgG34U3FAc5pPxV4ra2Aj4UOA=="> Received: (from catpurson@juno.com) by m28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPU9ZERA; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:00:56 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] paper clay doll Message-ID: <20030131.120049.-218749.1.catpurson@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 From: Lalah T Tillinghast Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:00:48 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne, is there anything you can't do? What a talented person you are. It is time for you to join the doll list now. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 12:57:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23269 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:57:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VHwBtv027839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:58:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VHw1bj013960; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:58:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VHvQbj013632 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:57:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([67.121.124.228]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9L00G9UB7OAG@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:57:26 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] paper clay doll In-reply-to: <000701c2c941$f67894f0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030131095407.04eb28b0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <00d101c2c8b9$bc41a980$18a231d2@valadan> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:55:33 -0800 Status: RO >It looks great Bjarne! My only suggestion is that you try to make your >body a little more in the shape of the 'look' of the gown you will dress >her with and stuff it really well. She needs fullness where there would >be muscles etc. or she will look flat. It looks to me like he has left room for her corset and the rest of her eventual underpinnings. All that ought to stiffen her up quite a bit. >The body should be very firm to the touch, otherwise, someday you will >come home and she will look like she wilted! > >Great first try-I didn't realize how many of us were interested in doll >making! >Can't wait to see her dressed. Keep us posted! > >Sg > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 13:01:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23315 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:01:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VI32tv028577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VI31bj017112; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe28.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VI2Ibj016639 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:02:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:02:12 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <20030131.094308.-323261.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Expensive fabrics on the web? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2003 18:02:12.0736 (UTC) FILETIME=[E17CF800:01C2C952] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:02:17 -0500 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: > http://www.farthingales.on.ca/linen.php > (this one has linen for $40 a yard!) Well, that would be 40 canadian dollars for a meter... Usually Farthingales sell in Canadian currency and measures... That means... around 26$ USD a meter (yes, the exchange is that bad these days) or around 24$ USD a yard :-) That's almost what linen costs at my local fabric store (somewhere between 20 and 30 $ CDN a meter. And it's not even 60 inches wide. Now you understand why I buy online :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 13:37:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23503 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:37:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VIcFtv002634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VIc2bj007077; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (dav41.sea2.hotmail.com [207.68.164.98]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0V6FigI006803 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:15:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:15:39 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: <002c01c2c8ea$3aca63c0$773bd118@jamie> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2003 06:15:39.0043 (UTC) FILETIME=[2CE0C730:01C2C8F0] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:14:40 -0500 Status: RO Sent privately. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ailith" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image > Yes, that's her. I'm looking for an image that I can archive for later use > on my website. I was hoping for one that I can actually use... > > Maybe I'll just wait til I can go to the Medici exhibit when it gets to > Detroit. Hopefully there will be postcards of her. > > kate > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Talia" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:34 PM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] I'm looking for an image > > > > Is this it?? > > > > http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/1555_1.shtml > > > > Talia > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 13:37:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23507 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:37:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VIcetv002698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:38:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VIcdbj007418; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:38:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VFGsbj021385 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:16:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-6-147.dav.jps.net ([216.119.6.147] helo=pavilion) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18ecuT-0005kM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:16:53 -0800 Message-ID: <003b01c2c93c$fa753040$930677d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2C8F9.C3B005A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Trace: 9c05c41117f01b301aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79cf4b1e3ce984403403255ce69e38aa89350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Subject: [h-cost] Historical Patterns printed at home Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:24:17 -0800 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2C8F9.C3B005A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been pondering the historical pattern options for awhile from a = producer's perspective and am wishing to get some feedback from those = who use commercial patterns when making up garments. One of the major expenses in producing a pattern is getting them printed = and one of the major delays in receiving a pattern is in posting them = out. Most people today have printers and many people today want custom = fit patterns. Software today will produce a custom fit pattern to a = given set of measurements in a few minutes and print it out in tile form = to be taped together, in the marketing info anyway :) this could be = delivered via email or from an online download. My question is, how many of you would be interested in obtaining a = custom fit pattern electronically, with sewing directions, if you had to = tape it together? The cost would be less than a commercially printed = pattern as the producer does not incur the printing cost or the shipping = fees? Of course the quality of the pattern matters, but I am just = asking about the form of delivery at the moment. Thank you in advance for your opinions on this. Cheers, Lisa Sinervo Threadneedle St. Clothiers www.ThreadneedleSt.com ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2C8F9.C3B005A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have been pondering the historical = pattern=20 options for awhile from a producer's perspective and am wishing to get = some=20 feedback from those who use commercial patterns when making up=20 garments.
 
One of the major expenses in producing = a pattern is=20 getting them printed and one of the major delays in receiving a pattern = is in=20 posting them out.  Most people today have printers and many people = today=20 want custom fit patterns.  Software today will produce a custom fit = pattern=20 to a given set of measurements in a few minutes and print it out in tile = form to=20 be taped together, in the marketing info anyway :) this could be = delivered via=20 email or from an online download.
 
My question is, how many of you would = be interested=20 in obtaining a custom fit pattern electronically, with sewing = directions, if you=20 had to tape it together?  The cost would be less than a = commercially=20 printed pattern as the producer does not incur the printing cost or the = shipping=20 fees?  Of course the quality of the pattern matters, but I am just = asking=20 about the form of delivery at the moment.
 
Thank you in advance for your opinions = on=20 this.
 
Cheers,
 
Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com<= /DIV>
 
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2C8F9.C3B005A0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 13:53:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23628 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:53:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VIn6tv003704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:49:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VIn1bj012672; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VImsbj012610 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:48:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2ivec7o.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.48.248] helo=[165.247.41.148]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18egDc-00028Q-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:48:53 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michiko@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030131152600.24997.14694.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030131152600.24997.14694.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: michiko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:47:54 -0500 Status: RO >My 1830's gown is 1/2 done, with lots of handwork remaning. I hate the >idea of stuffing the puffed sleeves in a suitcase. > >Katy Hiya Katy! If you haven't posted pics already (i.e. just in case I missed it) I would love love love to see your dress so far! I'm just starting mine (vacillating between the entire range of 1800s styles and would love to see what someone is doing :) When do you return from Austria? Sounds like we might just be crossing paths! I'll be arriving around Feb 20th or 25th or so (still researching flight options). Cheering you on! Sounds very excting! Best, Michiko Hi Cathy! THANK YOU so much for the info so far on the color schemes of ballgowns in the 1800s...whites to pastels, to brighter aniline dyes after the 1850s...brilliant! This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! And the cotton bodice/poly skirt combination is a great suggestion as well! Would love those links if it's still convenient for you, and just wanted to say thank you again, so much! :) At the moment I'm still debating between that deep burgundy red (has the demure elegance of wearing a black dress without it actually being black) on a thinnish shirt-=like cotton (I'm assuming it will need a layer of interfacing as well as a muslin inner-lining?) ... and... the copper/coral/rust color (though now I know that was more likely a daytime color - thanks!) which is actually...gosh, I hope this is not totally gross...a poly liner fabric with a slight sheen...I'm tempted to try it because it seems like an unusual choice (and at $1 a yard it looks as fancy as the plain cotton) but I don't know if that's super cheesy of me? As long as it's interfaced and lined with a cotton (for danceability) could that still work, or am I heading straight for dance-disaster? Hee hee. (How some things suddenly start to really matter! ;) In terms of the color, it looks less severe and more playful than the matronly-serious burgundy..well, I am flim-flamming until it's actually time to buy the fabric (which I have to do today because they close on Saturdays). Feel free to cast your vote -- and sorry to be indecisive and a bit silly! Thanks again for the feedback! Best, Michiko -- ---------------------------------------- Michiko Stehrenberger Illustration & Character Design BimBionic Design Lab | New York http://www.michiko.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 14:05:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23699 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:05:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VJ67tv005310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VJ61bj021994; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VJ5dbj021786 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2ivec7o.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.48.248] helo=[165.247.41.148]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18egTp-0003gq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:05:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michiko@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030131183839.7064.16449.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030131183839.7064.16449.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: michiko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Online patterns for making opera-length gloves? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:08:21 -0500 Status: RO Hello again! I have some black satin elbow-length gloves for this Vienna ballgown, but am wondering if anyone's ever sewn their own (I'd like to make some which match my dress -- burgundy or copper/coral -- whichever color it ends up being, am debating and anguishing over that today ;) and would mid-bicep be considered more 'opera-length'? Just wondering whether you'd consider sewing gloves really hard, or no big deal (easier to just go buy them, or...?) and if you might know of a place I could get a pattern and instructions online that would be wonderful - thanks! Best, Michiko -- ---------------------------------------- Michiko Stehrenberger Illustration & Character Design BimBionic Design Lab | New York http://www.michiko.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 14:48:48 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24481 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:48:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VJo5tv009341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VJo1lD016700; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.8.13]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VJnVlD016387 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:49:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 78769977 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:49:25 -0500 Message-ID: <004401c2c961$b5bf0280$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <005101c2c87f$530a9740$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> <200301302139.11438.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Hunnisett book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:48:21 -0600 Status: RO Hmmm, looks like the URL wrapped down to the second line. The title is "Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Patterns for Dominos, Dolmans, Coats, Pelisses, Spencers, Callashes, Hoods & Bonnets, vol. 5" ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** > > > > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2XRR81O0 > >E Q&isbn=0887346707&itm=1 > > ********************** > Sorry, the URL above returned a message that said "Sorry, we have no such > books" when I tried it (and I even tried typing it in). > > What was the title? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 15:48:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24934 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:47:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VKn6tv015406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:49:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VKn3lD019931; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VKmIlD019476 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:48:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.229]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FC27262971 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:48:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004701c2c96a$6cfecef0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] doll Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:50:44 +0100 Status: RO Hi folks! Thanks for you who had a look at my first doll. I have realised, that i should not do this doll thing right now. I did not have the peace and heart in it, because i was thinking about my embroidered suit, wich i really have to finish now. Therefore i have desided to put it a little to a side and come back to it later when i have the time and heart to it. I know i have found something wich is going to be my absolute wonderfull hobby. Thanks for your kind words!!! Bjarne, who made 24 embroidered buttons yesterday. Well not the embroidery, but the actually buttons. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 15:50:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24967 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:50:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VKq2tv015682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VKq1lD021463; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VKp5lE021044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alice@localhost) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) id h0VKom2k061247 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:50:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice) From: Heather Meadows Message-Id: <200301312050.h0VKom2k061247@jabberwock.wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] doll To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: from "Bjarne og Leif Drews" at Jan 31, 2003 09:50:44 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:50:48 -0800 (PST) Status: RO sometimes, reaching out to do something new is the best way to get motivated on what you were working on before! .heather. > > Hi folks! > Thanks for you who had a look at my first doll. > I have realised, that i should not do this doll thing right now. I did not > have the peace and heart in it, because i was thinking about my embroidered > suit, wich i really have to finish now. > Therefore i have desided to put it a little to a side and come back to it > later when i have the time and heart to it. > I know i have found something wich is going to be my absolute wonderfull > hobby. > Thanks for your kind words!!! > > Bjarne, who made 24 embroidered buttons yesterday. > Well not the embroidery, but the actually buttons. > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 17:22:46 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25561 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:22:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VMO5tv023889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VMO1lD013272; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VMNflD013124 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:23:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18ejZT-0003OX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:23:39 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Historical Patterns printed at home Message-ID: <000401c2c977$71d60da0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2C93C.C578BC40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: <003b01c2c93c$fa753040$930677d8@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:23:54 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2C93C.C578BC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since our last exchange on this, I have thought of 'another' option. If the pattern can be 'transferred' to a readily exchangeable format, one might be able to take it to a Kinko's (or whatever), or institutional plotter (not that I am promoting white collar crime here!) and have it printed on larger paper than most at home printers could print. It would be a little more expensive but I know I would gladly pay for that rather than have to tape a bunch of 8.5 X 11 pieces of paper together. Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2C93C.C578BC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Since our last exchange on this, I = have thought of ‘another’ option.  If the pattern can be ‘transferred’ to a readily = exchangeable format, one might be able to take it to a Kinko’s (or whatever), = or institutional plotter (not that I am promoting white collar crime here!) = and have it printed on larger paper than most at home printers could = print.  It would be a little more = expensive but I know I would gladly pay for that rather than have to tape a bunch of = 8.5 X 11 pieces of paper together.

 

Sg

 

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2C93C.C578BC40-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 17:26:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25606 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:26:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VMSGtv024359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:28:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VMSFlD015551; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:28:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f60.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VMRxlD015352 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:27:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:22:02 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:22:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Patterns printed at home Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2003 22:22:02.0352 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D9F9700:01C2C977] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:22:02 -0800 Status: RO Software today will produce a custom fit pattern to a given set of measurements in a few minutes and print it out in tile form to be taped together, in the marketing info anyway :) this could be delivered via email or from an online download. > >My question is, how many of you would be interested in obtaining a custom >fit pattern electronically, with sewing directions, if you had to tape it >together? Three years ago I bought some patternmaking software for my costuming business because I have NO drafting skills or training. Once printed each piece had identifying code at the top so you got all the pieces arranged right. It could be a pain if there were large open areas with no printing, but I would print facings, collars, etc. inside the skirt panels and then carefully cut them out without effecting the skirt piece's lines. Having worked with this type of pattern before I would be likely to use an emailed pattern for a custom fitting historical pattern. I love the way Margo's patterns have the extra info on the times too. Anyone who is serious enough to order a personalized pattern is serious enough to appreciate knowing exactly when, where and how the garment would have been worn. OK, with inflation that's my $.06.78's worth. Jennifer _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 17:36:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25669 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:36:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VMc2tv025200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VMc1lD020650; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f35.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VMbslD020528 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:37:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:34:06 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:34:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online patterns for making opera-length gloves? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2003 22:34:06.0622 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD526BE0:01C2C978] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:34:06 -0800 Status: RO >Just wondering whether you'd consider sewing gloves really hard, or no big >deal (easier to just go buy them, or...?) and if you might know of a place >I could get a pattern and instructions online that would be wonderful - >thanks! > At Christmas time I made a pair of gloves from light polar fleece with a pattern I bought at JoAnn's. The construction is for a fabric that can't ravel, so I think there would be alot more edge finishing and probably more hand stitching than the ones I did. The construction methods and piece shapes seem to be very close to what little glovemaking info I've been able to scrounge online. You would just have to adjust the pieces for fit and finishing. http://www.patternstudio.com/Products/Patterns/GloveGallery.html --for pictures and info on gloves http://www.glove.org/glovepattern.htm --This is the most thorough pattern/glove making directions (and pretty much the ONLY ones)I was able to find after two months of half hearted looking. I hope this helps. Jennifer _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 18:41:38 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25989 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:41:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VNh3tv000761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VNh1lD023146; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0VNgalD022999 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0960.cvx24-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.213.195] helo=[209.179.252.176]) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18eknr-0006eg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:42:36 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:44:51 -0800 Status: RO Katy Bishop wrote: > My 1830's gown is 1/2 done, with lots of handwork remaning. I hate the > idea of stuffing the puffed sleeves in a suitcase. When i made my 1830s gown - a cotton day dress, not a ball gown - the notes said that to achieve the big puff women often wore down filled pads inside. I didn't really want to try stuffing down into pads in my urban apartment, so... I made poufs of soft netting - there are two kinds, one softer and finer and one larger and stiffer with slightly different names in the US, and i forget the name of what i used, but it was the softer finer stuff. Anyway, it was really inexpensive, so i could play with it. I gathered many layers to make a pad that gave me the size i liked, and pinned it into the seam. The "pads" were separate from the dress, and a good fluffing shake brought the pad back up. That way the sleeve didn't suffer much in packing. Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 21:08:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26740 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:08:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1129Stv010418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1129LnC015626; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:09:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11287nD015251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18emYU-0000a2-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:34:50 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18emYU-0005fm-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:34:50 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: lilinah@earthlink.net cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] where to go in Vienna In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:34:50 -0500 (EST) Status: RO On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: > >When i made my 1830s gown - a cotton day dress, not a ball gown - the >notes said that to achieve the big puff women often wore down filled >pads inside. I didn't really want to try stuffing down into pads in >my urban apartment, so... Thanks, I wanted to make sleeve puffs, using an old down pillow's stuffing. Maybe for the next ball. But the sleeve itself isn't as full as I wanted. I do have some semi circular stiff net sleeve heads and I'll bring some tulle to stuff with. That's what I get for hurrying, but I had no time for a pattern test. I will probably recut the sleeves for future use. I just love the thought of china silk down filled sleeve puffs. They had a great pair at the Boston Museum of Fine arts. I wish I had had a digital camera when I was doing the textile and costume inventory there! I watched Onegin today for inspiration, wonderful late 1820's early 1830's costume ideas there! Great hairstyles and dresses, and cute men. Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 22:07:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26911 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:07:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1138jtv013176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1138hnC002757; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1137EnD002405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:07:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18emUC-0000Lt-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:30:24 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18emUB-0005Vo-00; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:30:23 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: michiko cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:30:23 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Well, you inspired me to take a couple of digital photos of the dress pinned on the dress form I will add updates of the hopefully finished dress, when I get back from Vienna. They can be viewed on my website here: http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1830_dress.html I have some ecru lace, about 5" wide that might be nice on the bodice as well as blue ribbon, brocade garnet ribbon, and cream brocade ribbon. Can't decide which to do, but that will wait until I am en-route. I will probably be sewing for the whole plane ride. The hardest part of the trip was choosing mundane clothes to wear to the performance of the Magic Flute at the State Opera! I have no good mundane dressy dresses. You can see the other dress I will be wearing in Vienna, at the Strauss ball, here: http://www.vintagevictorian.com/gbh_appearances.html It is the deep royal blue 1860's gown, made to portray First Lady Julia Dent Grant. This is a page I started showing some of the PBS film work our group has done over the last couple of years. The most recent being the American Experience that was on a couple of weeks ago called "Chicago: City of the Century." Don't have any pictures of that one yet, but we got 1-2 minutes of coverage, doing 1890's waltz in the third episode. This web-page is far from finished, and not linked to my website yet. I had considered taking an 1890's gown to Vienna but my favorite ones are all so heavy, my only light one being way to summery. You can see some pictures of them here: http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1890_dresses.html All of these dresses were seen in the Chicago series (I made all but the garnet and gold and the Blue). I think 1890's might be the easiest era to wear to a ball in Vienna, and the half circle skirts waltz wonderfully. Katy On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, michiko wrote: >>My 1830's gown is 1/2 done, with lots of handwork remaning. I hate the >>idea of stuffing the puffed sleeves in a suitcase. >> >>Katy > >Hiya Katy! > >If you haven't posted pics already (i.e. just in case I missed it) I >would love love love to see your dress so far! I'm just starting mine >(vacillating between the entire range of 1800s styles and would love >to see what someone is doing :) > >When do you return from Austria? Sounds like we might just be >crossing paths! I'll be arriving around Feb 20th or 25th or so (still >researching flight options). Cheering you on! Sounds very excting! > >Best, >Michiko > > > > >Hi Cathy! > >THANK YOU so much for the info so far on the color schemes of >ballgowns in the 1800s...whites to pastels, to brighter aniline dyes >after the 1850s...brilliant! This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! >And the cotton bodice/poly skirt combination is a great suggestion as >well! Would love those links if it's still convenient for you, and >just wanted to say thank you again, so much! :) > >At the moment I'm still debating between that deep burgundy red (has >the demure elegance of wearing a black dress without it actually >being black) on a thinnish shirt-=like cotton (I'm assuming it will >need a layer of interfacing as well as a muslin inner-lining?) ... >and... the copper/coral/rust color (though now I know that was more >likely a daytime color - thanks!) which is actually...gosh, I hope >this is not totally gross...a poly liner fabric with a slight >sheen...I'm tempted to try it because it seems like an unusual choice >(and at $1 a yard it looks as fancy as the plain cotton) but I don't >know if that's super cheesy of me? As long as it's interfaced and >lined with a cotton (for danceability) could that still work, or am I >heading straight for dance-disaster? Hee hee. (How some things >suddenly start to really matter! ;) In terms of the color, it looks >less severe and more playful than the matronly-serious >burgundy..well, I am flim-flamming until it's actually time to buy >the fabric (which I have to do today because they close on >Saturdays). Feel free to cast your vote -- and sorry to be indecisive >and a bit silly! > >Thanks again for the feedback! > >Best, >Michiko >-- > > > > >---------------------------------------- >Michiko Stehrenberger >Illustration & Character Design >BimBionic Design Lab | New York >http://www.michiko.com >---------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Fri Jan 31 23:11:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27304 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 23:11:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h114D2tv016250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h114D0nC019152; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h114CHnC018983 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:12:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-2ivebdq.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.45.186] helo=[165.247.41.148]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18ep0p-000564-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:12:16 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michiko@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030201030843.2580.75394.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030201030843.2580.75394.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: michiko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Onegin/Mansfield Park/cute men :) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 23:14:10 -0500 Status: RO >I watched Onegin today for inspiration, wonderful late 1820's early >1830's costume ideas there! Great hairstyles and dresses, and cute men. > >Katy Is that the one with Ralph Fiennes in it? Had it on reserve at the library, but it still hasn't come in after 3 months (someone's holding onto it -- is that why? hee hee :) Oh, sorry to be quite a little off-topic on this! Speaking of movies, wondering if anyone's seen Mansfield Park and what they thought of the main actress's costumes? I thought they were beautiful but seemed hip and modern (haven't researched yet what time period that was) but anyway, I'd love to wear any of those the next time I'm cast out and disinherited from a wealthy family and sent back to the docks, aye! :) Also, had my first Vienna Waltz private lesson tonight - nice! And now I know a bit better what to incorporate into the dress so I don't trip all over the man (well, at least while dancing...you know what I mean :) Hope you all have a great weekend! And...24 embroidered buttons, Leif?? :) (Impressed!) Best, Michiko -- ---------------------------------------- Michiko Stehrenberger Illustration & Character Design BimBionic Design Lab | New York http://www.michiko.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 00:19:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27631 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 00:19:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h115L2tv018825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h115L0nC006073; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:21:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd6mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h115KlnC006004 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:20:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd4mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr4so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.215]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9M007LA6UNOJ@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml7so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml7so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.151]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9M0087M6UN7Y@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from orb.shaw.ca (h24-80-194-235.gv.shawcable.net [24.80.194.235]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9M00KQV6UNOI@l-daemon> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:20:47 -0700 (MST) From: kris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Patterns printed at home In-reply-to: <003b01c2c93c$fa753040$930677d8@pavilion> X-Sender: ionization@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030131211858.00b8f9c8@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:20:38 -0800 Status: RO >My question is, how many of you would be interested in obtaining a custom >fit pattern electronically, with sewing directions, if you had to tape it >together? The cost would be less than a commercially printed pattern as >the producer does not incur the printing cost or the shipping fees? Of >course the quality of the pattern matters, but I am just asking about the >form of delivery at the moment. >Cheers, > >Lisa Sinervo >Threadneedle St. Clothiers >www.ThreadneedleSt.com me! me! :] There are some things that I just don't feel I have the skill to make without a pattern as a basis. This would be an awesome way of getting the patterns, even if I had to go to the local Kinko's and print it out.. (cheaper than replacing the ink cartridge on my printer :] ) kris _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume