From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 00:51:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27675 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 00:51:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h115r2tv019949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h115r0nC013852; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h115qKnD013697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h116NMI3002733 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:23:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h116NMd9002731 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:23:22 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302010123.22474.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h115qKnD013697 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:23:22 -0500 Status: RO On Friday 31 January 2003 08:30 pm, Katy Bishop wrote: > Well, you inspired me to take a couple of digital photos of the dress > pinned on the dress form I will add updates of the hopefully finished > dress, when I get back from Vienna. They can be viewed on my website > here: > > http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1830_dress.html Lovely. > I have some ecru lace, about 5" wide that might be nice on the bodice as > well as blue ribbon, brocade garnet ribbon, and cream brocade ribbon. Unless the blue ribbon is a good match, I'd vote for the cream ribbon with the ecru lace. The garnet may well be period with that shade of blue for the 1830s (though I don't think so...), but I know if I were wearing it I'd prefer the cream. > Can't decide which to do, but that will wait until I am en-route. I > will probably be sewing for the whole plane ride. Uh, assuming airport security will let you through with scissors or thread nippers in your carry on! If they do, let us know. > The hardest part of the trip was choosing mundane clothes to wear to the > performance of the Magic Flute at the State Opera! I have no good > mundane dressy dresses. And no time to make one now (assuming you would want to). > You can see the other dress I will be wearing in Vienna, at the Strauss > ball, here: > > http://www.vintagevictorian.com/gbh_appearances.html > > It is the deep royal blue 1860's gown, made to portray First Lady Julia > Dent Grant. Also very impressive. > This is a page I started showing some of the PBS film work our group has > done over the last couple of years. The most recent being the American > Experience that was on a couple of weeks ago called "Chicago: City of > the Century." Don't have any pictures of that one yet, but we got 1-2 > minutes of coverage, doing 1890's waltz in the third episode. This > web-page is far from finished, and not linked to my website yet. > > I had considered taking an 1890's gown to Vienna but my favorite ones > are all so heavy, my only light one being way to summery. You can see > some pictures of them here: > > http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1890_dresses.html > > All of these dresses were seen in the Chicago series (I made all but the > garnet and gold and the Blue). I think 1890's might be the easiest era > to wear to a ball in Vienna, and the half circle skirts waltz > wonderfully. I look dreadful in mid-1890's dresses--I'm five foot one, and the sleeve puffs combined with my body proportions make me look like one of Santa's elves in particularly unflattering drag. Give me mid-Victorian or anywhere in the Middle Ages, any day. :-) Enjoy Vienna! -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 03:46:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA00879 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 03:46:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h118l3tv025493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:47:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h118l0nC024064; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h118kgnC023993 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:46:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (12-225-18-223.client.attbi.com[12.225.18.223]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003020108463600200i2ulre>; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:46:36 +0000 Message-ID: <005901c2c9ce$613c8f80$df12e10c@attbi.com> From: "dshoover" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 00:46:14 -0800 Status: RO Please don't take you sewing things on the plane with you. They will just take them away from you when you go through security. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" To: "michiko" Cc: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) > > Well, you inspired me to take a couple of digital photos of the dress > pinned on the dress form I will add updates of the hopefully finished > dress, when I get back from Vienna. They can be viewed on my website > here: > > http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1830_dress.html > > I have some ecru lace, about 5" wide that might be nice on the bodice as > well as blue ribbon, brocade garnet ribbon, and cream brocade ribbon. > Can't decide which to do, but that will wait until I am en-route. I > will probably be sewing for the whole plane ride. > > The hardest part of the trip was choosing mundane clothes to wear to the > performance of the Magic Flute at the State Opera! I have no good > mundane dressy dresses. > > You can see the other dress I will be wearing in Vienna, at the Strauss > ball, here: > > http://www.vintagevictorian.com/gbh_appearances.html > > It is the deep royal blue 1860's gown, made to portray First Lady Julia > Dent Grant. > > This is a page I started showing some of the PBS film work our group has > done over the last couple of years. The most recent being the American > Experience that was on a couple of weeks ago called "Chicago: City of > the Century." Don't have any pictures of that one yet, but we got 1-2 > minutes of coverage, doing 1890's waltz in the third episode. This > web-page is far from finished, and not linked to my website yet. > > I had considered taking an 1890's gown to Vienna but my favorite ones > are all so heavy, my only light one being way to summery. You can see > some pictures of them here: > > http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1890_dresses.html > > All of these dresses were seen in the Chicago series (I made all but the > garnet and gold and the Blue). I think 1890's might be the easiest era > to wear to a ball in Vienna, and the half circle skirts waltz > wonderfully. > > Katy > > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, michiko wrote: > > >>My 1830's gown is 1/2 done, with lots of handwork remaning. I hate the > >>idea of stuffing the puffed sleeves in a suitcase. > >> > >>Katy > > > >Hiya Katy! > > > >If you haven't posted pics already (i.e. just in case I missed it) I > >would love love love to see your dress so far! I'm just starting mine > >(vacillating between the entire range of 1800s styles and would love > >to see what someone is doing :) > > > >When do you return from Austria? Sounds like we might just be > >crossing paths! I'll be arriving around Feb 20th or 25th or so (still > >researching flight options). Cheering you on! Sounds very excting! > > > >Best, > >Michiko > > > > > > > > > >Hi Cathy! > > > >THANK YOU so much for the info so far on the color schemes of > >ballgowns in the 1800s...whites to pastels, to brighter aniline dyes > >after the 1850s...brilliant! This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! > >And the cotton bodice/poly skirt combination is a great suggestion as > >well! Would love those links if it's still convenient for you, and > >just wanted to say thank you again, so much! :) > > > >At the moment I'm still debating between that deep burgundy red (has > >the demure elegance of wearing a black dress without it actually > >being black) on a thinnish shirt-=like cotton (I'm assuming it will > >need a layer of interfacing as well as a muslin inner-lining?) ... > >and... the copper/coral/rust color (though now I know that was more > >likely a daytime color - thanks!) which is actually...gosh, I hope > >this is not totally gross...a poly liner fabric with a slight > >sheen...I'm tempted to try it because it seems like an unusual choice > >(and at $1 a yard it looks as fancy as the plain cotton) but I don't > >know if that's super cheesy of me? As long as it's interfaced and > >lined with a cotton (for danceability) could that still work, or am I > >heading straight for dance-disaster? Hee hee. (How some things > >suddenly start to really matter! ;) In terms of the color, it looks > >less severe and more playful than the matronly-serious > >burgundy..well, I am flim-flamming until it's actually time to buy > >the fabric (which I have to do today because they close on > >Saturdays). Feel free to cast your vote -- and sorry to be indecisive > >and a bit silly! > > > >Thanks again for the feedback! > > > >Best, > >Michiko > >-- > > > > > > > > > >---------------------------------------- > >Michiko Stehrenberger > >Illustration & Character Design > >BimBionic Design Lab | New York > >http://www.michiko.com > >---------------------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 03:49:26 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04599 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 03:49:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h118p1tv025567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h118p0nC025081; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web21204.mail.yahoo.com (web21204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h118oVnC024982 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:50:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030201085030.95293.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.252.64.5] by web21204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 08:50:30 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jane=20Williams?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Historical Patterns printed at home To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000401c2c977$71d60da0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:50:30 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Since our last exchange on this, I have thought of > 'another' option. If > the pattern can be 'transferred' to a readily > exchangeable format, ...I know I would > gladly pay for that > rather than have to tape a bunch of 8.5 X 11 pieces > of paper together. And I hope the software wouldn't be making that kind of assumption: I'd be printing on world-standard A4, not some proprietary American size :) (And not many printers print to the edge of the paper, anyway. So you're always going to have to trim and match edges up carefully.). I'd be interested, yes, for smallish patterns where the shaping is complex. Bodices yes, big skirts no. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 04:05:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14107 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 04:05:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11973tv025885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 02:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11971nC028310; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 02:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1196onC028245 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 02:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp01-195.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.120.195]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFBE19FB4F for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:06:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3E3B8E2F.9010008@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Patterns printed at home References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 10:06:55 +0100 Status: RO Hi, I would be happy if it prints in the right size on a grid paper so I can draw it myself. If it comes with the information how to sow it together and maby some information when, where and how the garment would have been worn... I think that would be great. Greetings, Deredere Jennifer Sena wrote: > Software today will produce a custom fit pattern to a given set of > measurements in a few minutes and print it out in tile form to be > taped together, in the marketing info anyway :) this could be > delivered via email or from an online download. > >> >> My question is, how many of you would be interested in obtaining a >> custom fit pattern electronically, with sewing directions, if you had >> to tape it together? > > > Three years ago I bought some patternmaking software for my costuming > business because I have NO drafting skills or training. Once printed > each piece had identifying code at the top so you got all the pieces > arranged right. It could be a pain if there were large open areas > with no printing, but I would print facings, collars, etc. inside the > skirt panels and then carefully cut them out without effecting the > skirt piece's lines. > > Having worked with this type of pattern before I would be likely to > use an emailed pattern for a custom fitting historical pattern. I > love the way Margo's patterns have the extra info on the times too. > Anyone who is serious enough to order a personalized pattern is > serious enough to appreciate knowing exactly when, where and how the > garment would have been worn. > > OK, with inflation that's my $.06.78's worth. > > Jennifer > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 05:45:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07803 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 05:45:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Ai5tv029054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 03:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Ai2nC015714; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 03:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h11Ah0nC015510 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 03:43:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030201104255.92276.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 10:42:55 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: RE: [h-cost] Historical Patterns printed at home To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030201085030.95293.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:42:55 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Jane Williams wrote: > > And I hope the software wouldn't be making that kind > of assumption: I'd be printing on world-standard A4, > not some proprietary American size :) Hear! Hear! I also get upset about the funny loads-of-holes that are in American stuff, that require Americam binders. I had to re-punch all of Margo's pattern info. My that was a lot of work. Poots! :-) > I'd be interested, yes, for smallish patterns where > the shaping is complex. Bodices yes, big skirts no. Same here. Small things anytime on printable, big things on a grid please. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 08:18:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08964 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:18:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11DH7tv012649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11DH3nC027310; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:17:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11DGEnC027004 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:16:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.212]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5838F47FF20 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:16:12 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004401c2c9f4$7aa349c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <3E399B8B.4080202@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book and bookseller of interest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:18:58 +0100 Status: RO Hi Fran. Your favourite bodice from 17th. century is my favourite two. This was made originally from a piece of Elizabethan embroidery. Many thinks this was a gift from Christian IV's sister Quen Anne who inherited all Elizabeths goodies. The bodice is called Sophie Amalie's hunting jacket. It is gorgeous! My favourite two! It is a lovely book. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] Book and bookseller of interest > Today a belated Christmas present arrived that my husband had mail > ordered for me. It is a book titled _Royal Gowns_, by Katia > Johansen. It was published in 1990, apparently by Rosenborg Palace. > It contains 112 pages of color pictures of clothes worn by Danish > queens and princesses between about 1640 and 1960. The descriptions > are all in English (there is also a Danish edition). My favorite is > a densely embroidered 17th-century bodice. > > My husband bought the book from: > > Art Consulting: Scandanavia > Books on Art & Architecture > 3650 Cross Creek Road > Malibu, California 90265 > http://www.nordicartbooks.com > > They enclosed their print catalog, which is quite large. Of > interest may be a book on Swedish reform dress, some books on > textiles and tapestries, and a whole section of non-textile-related > books on the Vikings. > > Fran > > --------------------------------------------- > Visit our web pages! > Books on historic costume and vintage clothes > http://www.lavoltapress.com > Historic and vintage dance > http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 08:30:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09123 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:30:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11DT2tv013698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11DT1nC000512; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11DSDnD000338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:28:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18exgp-0004Zt-00; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 08:28:11 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 18exgo-0004sc-00; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 08:28:10 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) In-Reply-To: <005901c2c9ce$613c8f80$df12e10c@attbi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:28:09 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I have a print out from my friend's travel company, they say you can take non pointy scissors (kiddie scissors). There is no mention of needles and pins. I am hoping I can do this. I will ask before my checked baggage disappears! I need to hide my bone stiletto for punching eyelette holes. Katy On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, dshoover wrote: >Please don't take you sewing things on the plane with you. They will just >take them away from you when you go through security. Debbie >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Katy Bishop" >To: "michiko" >Cc: >Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:30 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you >Cathy (1800s gown colors) > > >> >> Well, you inspired me to take a couple of digital photos of the dress >> pinned on the dress form I will add updates of the hopefully finished >> dress, when I get back from Vienna. They can be viewed on my website >> here: >> >> http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1830_dress.html >> >> I have some ecru lace, about 5" wide that might be nice on the bodice as >> well as blue ribbon, brocade garnet ribbon, and cream brocade ribbon. >> Can't decide which to do, but that will wait until I am en-route. I >> will probably be sewing for the whole plane ride. >> >> The hardest part of the trip was choosing mundane clothes to wear to the >> performance of the Magic Flute at the State Opera! I have no good >> mundane dressy dresses. >> >> You can see the other dress I will be wearing in Vienna, at the Strauss >> ball, here: >> >> http://www.vintagevictorian.com/gbh_appearances.html >> >> It is the deep royal blue 1860's gown, made to portray First Lady Julia >> Dent Grant. >> >> This is a page I started showing some of the PBS film work our group has >> done over the last couple of years. The most recent being the American >> Experience that was on a couple of weeks ago called "Chicago: City of >> the Century." Don't have any pictures of that one yet, but we got 1-2 >> minutes of coverage, doing 1890's waltz in the third episode. This >> web-page is far from finished, and not linked to my website yet. >> >> I had considered taking an 1890's gown to Vienna but my favorite ones >> are all so heavy, my only light one being way to summery. You can see >> some pictures of them here: >> >> http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1890_dresses.html >> >> All of these dresses were seen in the Chicago series (I made all but the >> garnet and gold and the Blue). I think 1890's might be the easiest era >> to wear to a ball in Vienna, and the half circle skirts waltz >> wonderfully. >> >> Katy >> >> On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, michiko wrote: >> >> >>My 1830's gown is 1/2 done, with lots of handwork remaning. I hate the >> >>idea of stuffing the puffed sleeves in a suitcase. >> >> >> >>Katy >> > >> >Hiya Katy! >> > >> >If you haven't posted pics already (i.e. just in case I missed it) I >> >would love love love to see your dress so far! I'm just starting mine >> >(vacillating between the entire range of 1800s styles and would love >> >to see what someone is doing :) >> > >> >When do you return from Austria? Sounds like we might just be >> >crossing paths! I'll be arriving around Feb 20th or 25th or so (still >> >researching flight options). Cheering you on! Sounds very excting! >> > >> >Best, >> >Michiko >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Hi Cathy! >> > >> >THANK YOU so much for the info so far on the color schemes of >> >ballgowns in the 1800s...whites to pastels, to brighter aniline dyes >> >after the 1850s...brilliant! This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! >> >And the cotton bodice/poly skirt combination is a great suggestion as >> >well! Would love those links if it's still convenient for you, and >> >just wanted to say thank you again, so much! :) >> > >> >At the moment I'm still debating between that deep burgundy red (has >> >the demure elegance of wearing a black dress without it actually >> >being black) on a thinnish shirt-=like cotton (I'm assuming it will >> >need a layer of interfacing as well as a muslin inner-lining?) ... >> >and... the copper/coral/rust color (though now I know that was more >> >likely a daytime color - thanks!) which is actually...gosh, I hope >> >this is not totally gross...a poly liner fabric with a slight >> >sheen...I'm tempted to try it because it seems like an unusual choice >> >(and at $1 a yard it looks as fancy as the plain cotton) but I don't >> >know if that's super cheesy of me? As long as it's interfaced and >> >lined with a cotton (for danceability) could that still work, or am I >> >heading straight for dance-disaster? Hee hee. (How some things >> >suddenly start to really matter! ;) In terms of the color, it looks >> >less severe and more playful than the matronly-serious >> >burgundy..well, I am flim-flamming until it's actually time to buy >> >the fabric (which I have to do today because they close on >> >Saturdays). Feel free to cast your vote -- and sorry to be indecisive >> >and a bit silly! >> > >> >Thanks again for the feedback! >> > >> >Best, >> >Michiko >> >-- >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >---------------------------------------- >> >Michiko Stehrenberger >> >Illustration & Character Design >> >BimBionic Design Lab | New York >> >http://www.michiko.com >> >---------------------------------------- >> >_______________________________________________ >> >h-costume mailing list >> >h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >> >> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian >> vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com >> Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. >> Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 08:42:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09176 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:42:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Df1tv014032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Df0nC002802; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11DeRnC002680 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:40:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.114] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AC5F1C7000C4; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 08:32:15 -0500 Message-ID: <004b01c2c9f7$f8a0fb80$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01C2C9CE.0F13D880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Sleeve puffs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:43:57 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C2C9CE.0F13D880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the subject of sleeve puffs, I have a pair of down puffs, and they do = indeed do the trick very nicely, but they are very warm to wear. I've = tried the net variety, and if made very stiff, they work well with = lighter weight fabrics (read silk or cotton voile). And in a pinch I = have discovered a useful purpose for those ubiquitous bath net balls! = Depending on the size of the sleeve, a couple of those anchored in place = by the handy strings will give suitable fullness...and they don't itch. = = = Kathleen = ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C2C9CE.0F13D880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On the subject of sleeve puffs, I have a pair = of down=20 puffs, and they do indeed do the trick very nicely, but they are very = warm to=20 wear. I've tried the net variety, and if made very stiff,  they = work well=20 with lighter weight fabrics (read silk or cotton voile). And in a pinch = I have=20 discovered a useful purpose for those ubiquitous bath net balls! = Depending on=20 the size of the sleeve, a couple of those anchored in place by the handy = strings=20 will give suitable fullness...and they don't itch.   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20            =20              =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20          Kathleen  =20             =    =20             =    =20              =20            =20   
------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C2C9CE.0F13D880-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 09:07:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09386 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:07:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11E66tv014686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 07:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11E63nC007603; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 07:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11E50nC007411 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 07:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.114] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A2201CC900C4; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 08:56:48 -0500 Message-ID: <006901c2c9fb$6691ca40$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0066_01C2C9D1.7CE18EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] colored evening gloves Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:08:30 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C2C9D1.7CE18EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michiko has mentioned that she is considering making matching gloves for = her ball gown. Unless I have missed it, my research on accessories for = the 19th century ballroom usually stress that the proper color of gloves = is white or cream. In the post Civil War era one begins to find other = colors being suggested, but this was a fad of the demi-monde and was not = quite the thing for Ladies. Even black was not quite right but began to = be acceptable for widows and women of age from about the 1880s.And = then,of women of fashion (but not young women). You will find the fad of = matching gloves in the 1950's and then the 1980's for prom wear in the = youth set, but white remains for formal wear. = = = Kathleen, whose glove collection approaches Bartholomew's hats. = ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C2C9D1.7CE18EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Michiko has mentioned that she is considering making = matching=20 gloves for her ball gown.  Unless I have missed it, my research on=20 accessories for the 19th century ballroom usually stress that the proper = color=20 of gloves is white or cream.  In the post Civil War era one begins = to find=20 other colors being suggested, but this was a fad of the demi-monde and = was not=20 quite the thing for Ladies. Even black was not quite right but = began to be=20 acceptable for widows and women of age from about the 1880s.And then,of = women of=20 fashion (but not young women). You will find the fad of matching = gloves in=20 the 1950's and then the 1980's for prom wear in the youth set, but white = remains=20 for formal wear.            =             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20              Kathleen, = whose=20 glove collection approaches Bartholomew's hats.   =    =20             =    =20          
------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C2C9D1.7CE18EE0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 10:06:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09817 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:06:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11F1Itv016850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:01:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11F13nC020214; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h118CHnD016565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:12:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h118h0I3003232 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 03:43:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h118gvJH003230 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 03:42:57 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_K7GM7O2C5MTOB2S2DZL5" Message-Id: <200302010342.56657.cathy@thyrsus.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 03:42:56 -0500 Status: RO --------------Boundary-00=_K7GM7O2C5MTOB2S2DZL5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, michiko wrote: [text cut here] Michiko--I don't seem to have gotten the post you sent the following mess= age=20 in. Katy Bishop included it in one of her posts. Sorry I didn't get to=20 answer sooner! > >Hi Cathy! > > > >THANK YOU so much for the info so far on the color schemes of > >ballgowns in the 1800s...whites to pastels, to brighter aniline dyes > >after the 1850s...brilliant! This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! > >And the cotton bodice/poly skirt combination is a great suggestion as > >well! Would love those links if it's still convenient for you, and > >just wanted to say thank you again, so much! :) Links. Hmmmm. Yes. Google is my friend. Let's see: By the way, if you decide after this project that you want to learn more = about=20 Victorian costume, here are some recommendations: Dover Publications reprints books on which copyright has expired in solid= ,=20 trade paperback or larger formats at cheap prices (their largest books go= , I=20 think, for $20.00 US, and the average price is between $7.95 and $12.95 U= S). The following titles may be of use to you in learning the wonderful=20 distinctions between fashions of the various decades of the 19th Century = (it=20 took me about 5 years to get the basic distinctions straight and I'm no=20 specialist on Victorian fashion): C. Willett Cunnington, English Women's Clothing in the Nineteenth Century= =20 ISBN 0-486-26323-1 Stella Blum, ed. Fashions and Costumes from Godey's Lady's Book ISBN 0-486-24841-0 Both are illustrated almost entirely in black and white (the Godey's one = has 8=20 colorized plates, which is nice), but it's black and white line drawings = from=20 the period (as the title implies, the Godey's one reproduces images from=20 Godey's Lady's Book, a period fashion magazine). Cunnington covers the=20 entire century and discusses bonnets, dresses, shoes, etc. in separate=20 sections, with sample illustrations arranged chronologically. Blum=20 reproduces plates from Godey's ranging from 1837-1869, with the original=20 period descriptions. Fascinating. > >At the moment I'm still debating between that deep burgundy red (has > >the demure elegance of wearing a black dress without it actually > >being black) on a thinnish shirt-=3Dlike cotton (I'm assuming it will > >need a layer of interfacing as well as a muslin inner-lining?) ... With the possible exception of some of the really early in the century st= uff=20 (when they were going for the Roman statue drapery look), most Victorian=20 dresses, including ball gowns, were lined. I doubt you'll need interfaci= ng=20 unless your outer fabric is really, really thin, though my sewing experie= nce=20 with such gowns is limited. > >and... the copper/coral/rust color (though now I know that was more > >likely a daytime color - thanks!)=20 I wouldn't take my word as gospel if I were you--I'm going on my memory o= f=20 secondary sources I read. which is actually...gosh, I hope > >this is not totally gross...a poly liner fabric with a slight > >sheen...I'm tempted to try it because it seems like an unusual choice > >(and at $1 a yard it looks as fancy as the plain cotton) but I don't > >know if that's super cheesy of me? As long as it's interfaced and > >lined with a cotton (for danceability) could that still work, or am I > >heading straight for dance-disaster? It might look very nice--I'd have to see the fabrics to judge. But my guess is that including a poly layer in the bodice will lose you the=20 breathability effect of the cotton. Never having tried what you're=20 suggesting, though, I can't be sure. > > Hee hee. (How some things > >suddenly start to really matter! ;) In terms of the color, it looks > >less severe and more playful than the matronly-serious > >burgundy.. Matronly? Hardly. More like a Jezebel. :-) I've looked at your sketch and it is lovely. The silhouette looks the mo= st=20 like pictures of dresses I've seen from the late 1860s--when skirts (and=20 crinolines) began to be elliptical in shape with most of the fullness at = the=20 back, but before the humped "bustle" look became fashionable. You could=20 actually be a bit naughtier with the neckline. See the attached jpg for = an=20 illustration of what I mean by the neckline--and of how gaudy the trimmin= gs=20 could get (from Cunnington's book): Here are a few URLs with pictures of ball gowns you may find=20 interesting/instructive: http://www.fashion-era.com/mid-late_victorian_fashion.htm#The%20Soft%20Bu= stle%20Fashion%20Silhouette%20%201867-1875 (the first two on the page look most like your sketch) http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/arte/1800art2.shtml http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/pics/1800d.shtml > > well, I am flim-flamming until it's actually time to buy > >the fabric (which I have to do today because they close on > >Saturdays). Feel free to cast your vote -- and sorry to be indecisive > >and a bit silly! I still like the idea of lilac, but of the choices you've listed I think = coral=20 or burgundy would be best. (I think burgundy is period, but would have b= een=20 avoided by all but the boldest of women for *evening* wear. Daywear was=20 different, of course.) I agree that in satin it might be excessive. I'= d go=20 for a fabric with a matte or only slightly shiny finish, and add satin=20 ribbons and lace as trim. Maybe a lace overskirt? (They were big on=20 overskirts in the 1860, as the jpg suggests, and the overskirt could just= =20 cover part of the skirt area of the gown). Sashes are nice, too.... Have fun. > >Thanks again for the feedback! You're welcome. Good luck! --=20 Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. 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http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 11:12:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10242 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:12:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11GB3tv019736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11GB1PR006551; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11GA4PR006342 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.142] (pm5-142.eos.net [205.133.149.142]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15536 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:09:59 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030201132901.511.77606.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Katy Bishop Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 11:06:52 -0500 Status: RO Wow, thanks for posting those pictures! The ballroom picture was just like the balls I used to attend here in Cincinnati when Richard Powers was THE vintage dance guru (they're still held almost monthly, but at $20 apiece my husband and I can't afford to go and pay a babysitter too). I just LOVE that green gown with the butterflies. It's gorgeous. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 11:17:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10276 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:17:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11GH1tv019990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11GH1PR008151; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h11GG0PR007868 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoKTgIPyrvWgYwyQC0qIAQtkyb86r3PigQ=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPXRSARZ; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 11:15:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20030201.101156.-495549.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,6-8 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] Catch it if you can Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:11:56 -0600 Status: RO If you see a listing on A&E cable network for a show called "Hauntings: London", try to catch it. I has our own Melanie Wilson in a featured role as the nurse of Prior Rahere. Her son Alex is the older of the Princes in the Tower, and her brother in law is dragging a witch to be burned. I'll admit some of the costuming is kinda cheesy (not Mel's of course!), but it's fun to see a list member in all their glory. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 11:46:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10542 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:46:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Gk2tv021038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Gk0PR015205; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11GjDPR014951 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:45:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.3a.33aeeca7 (30970) for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:45:02 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <3a.33aeeca7.2b6d538d@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_3a.33aeeca7.2b6d538d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Subject: [h-cost] Brocade Fabrics? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:45:01 EST Status: RO --part1_3a.33aeeca7.2b6d538d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I'm looking for brocade fabric to make the forepart for an Elizabethan costume. I only need about two yards, and it doesn't have to be historically accurate ("interpretation" is what I'm looking for). I also can't afford to spend $100 per yard, as I haven't purchased anything else for the costume yet. Does anyone have any sources for brocade, other than The Orange Bag store? I've looked there, and while I'm lusting after their fabric, none of it seems appropriate for this particular outfit. Thank you! Christine --part1_3a.33aeeca7.2b6d538d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all,

I'm looking for brocade fabric to make the forepart for an Elizabethan costume.  I only need about two yards, and it doesn't have to be historically accurate ("interpretation" is what I'm looking for).  I also can't afford to spend $100 per yard, as I haven't purchased anything else for the costume yet.  Does anyone have any sources for brocade, other than The Orange Bag store?  I've looked there, and while I'm lusting after their fabric, none of it seems appropriate for this particular outfit.

Thank you!
Christine --part1_3a.33aeeca7.2b6d538d_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 11:53:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10605 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:53:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Gr2tv021313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Gr1PR017070; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11GqYPR016947 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:52:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29231; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:05:29 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com cc: Eric Praetzel Subject: Re: [h-cost] archives, In-Reply-To: <00f401c2c9f8$87f1fa50$d30c8ea7@herselftifhj9g> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:05:29 -0600 (CST) Status: RO On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Land of Oz wrote: > I followed the link for searchable archives, but I don't see anything > for 2002 or 2003 messages. Can someone point me in the right archive > direction, or tell me if clothing in the American colonies (mid 1600s) > has been discussed recently? All messages through 2002 should be here: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives/ However, I just tried looking for a November message I had record of posting, and it didn't come up. I did see some from early 2002. I don't know how far behind it is. I'm copying the archive owner in on this to see what's up. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 12:22:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10817 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:22:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11HM2tv023329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11HM1PR024191; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11HL4PR023982 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:21:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p153.directcon.net [209.233.107.153]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h11HKkGu005645; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:20:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030201092432.00bc6ec0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Patterns printed at home In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030131211858.00b8f9c8@shawmail.gv.shawcable.ne t> References: <003b01c2c93c$fa753040$930677d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 09:24:32 -0800 Status: RO At 09:20 PM 01/31/2003 -0800, kris wrote: > >>My question is, how many of you would be interested in obtaining a custom >>fit pattern electronically, with sewing directions, if you had to tape it >>together? The cost would be less than a commercially printed pattern as >>the producer does not incur the printing cost or the shipping fees? Of >>course the quality of the pattern matters, but I am just asking about the >>form of delivery at the moment. Unless you're going to be concentrating on very small items like hats, or maybe bodices or corsets, I don't think this is a method your customers would be happy with. I've tried printing my own patterns out in tiled format, for testing and personal use, and it's a huge pain. It's surprising how many 8 1/2 x 11 sheets it really takes to print a pattern; as many as six or eight for a moderate sleeve, for example. Also getting them aligned right isn't as easy as it seems. I found that even though I have wonderful pattern drafting software, I never wanted to sew from my customized patterns becasue I'd have to tape all those sheets together first. I think that after the first flush of enthusiasm wore off, your customers would feel the same. I solved the problem for myself by picking up a used wide bed dot matrix printer, that can print long strips on 14" fanfold paper, but that's probably not a solution for commercial sales. Commercial printing of tissue sheets is surprisingly inexpensive, but you do have to order a minimum of 1000. The only lower volume methods of printing I've found are either commercial photocopying or blueline prints, which are considerably more expensive. If you'd like to discuss pattern production further, there's a list for it at patternproducers@yahoo.com. Margo "One Tough Costumer" The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping! See it at http//:www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 12:23:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10822 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:23:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11HMJtv023409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:22:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11HMJPR024280; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11HLaPR024088 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (213-78-99-58.friaco.onetel.net.uk [213.78.99.58]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id APM55222; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:21:31 GMT Message-ID: <018f01c2ca16$d1f6d120$71794ed5@pavilion> From: "Melanie Wilson" To: References: <20030201.101156.-495549.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catch it if you can MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Melanie Wilson" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:24:45 -0000 Status: RO >If you see a listing on A&E cable network for a show called "Hauntings: London", try to catch it. I has our own Melanie Wilson in a featured role as the nurse of Prior Rahere. Her son Alex is the older of the Princes in the Tower, and her brother in law is dragging a witch to be burned. I'll admit some of the costuming is kinda cheesy (not Mel's of course!), but it's fun to see a list member in all their glory. May I point out I fought long & hard to wear the costume I did & even THAT was a compromise :) The costume was AWEFUL !!! (especially Alex's Victorian nighty !) Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 12:53:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10958 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:53:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Hq2tv024851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Hq1PR001967; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Hp1PR001660 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.161.53]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030201175057.ZZLF8666.lakemtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:50:57 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: Message-ID: <000001c2c9dc$f40dfa20$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] swimsuit issue Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 05:30:30 -0500 Status: RO It's that time of year again, and to get us inspired National Geographic is featuring an article on "Swimsuits: 100 Years of Pictures". I haven't personally seen it, but the link to preview it online is here: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ Linda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 13:10:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11079 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:10:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11I94tv025701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11I91PR006783; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from amsterdam.ucdavis.edu (amsterdam.ucdavis.edu [169.237.104.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11I82PR006496 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from adalia.ucdavis.edu (adalia.ucdavis.edu [169.237.104.182]) by amsterdam.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/virus-scan-4.0.1) with ESMTP id h11I80d28680 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from www@localhost) by adalia.ucdavis.edu (8.11.4/8.11.0/UCD4.1.0) id h11I80C16809; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:08:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200302011808.h11I80C16809@adalia.ucdavis.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Gwyndolynn Carnegie" X-Errors-To: gacarnegie@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Geckomail-b16 X-Originating-IP: [66.125.108.34] X-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1) Subject: [h-cost] Re: Historical Patterns printed at home Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:08:00 -0800 (PST) Status: RO > > >My question is, how many of you would be interested in obtaining a custom > >fit pattern electronically, with sewing directions, if you had to tape it > >together? The cost would be less than a commercially printed pattern as > >the producer does not incur the printing cost or the shipping fees? Of > >course the quality of the pattern matters, but I am just asking about the > >form of delivery at the moment. > >Cheers, > > > >Lisa Sinervo > >Threadneedle St. Clothiers > >www.ThreadneedleSt.com > > me! me! :] There are some things that I just don't feel I have the skill to > make without a pattern as a basis. This would be an awesome way of getting > the patterns, even if I had to go to the local Kinko's and print it out.. > (cheaper than replacing the ink cartridge on my printer :] ) > > kris A friend told me this morning that some of the armourers share patterns this way on their list. The trick is use a grid pattern embedded in the background so you can verify scale. This is something they do for free apparently; I'm not sure about anyone doing this as a business since the files would be easily duplicated and spread around your potential audience at a drop of a hat. Gwyn Carnegie University of California, Davis _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 13:19:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11391 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:19:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11II2tv026034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11II1PR009182; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.primushost.com (poseidon.shore.net [207.244.124.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11IHJPS009026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:17:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from (shell3.shore.net) [207.244.124.103] by relay1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 18f2Cb-0006Y6-00; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:17:17 -0500 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 18f2Cb-0001Fe-00; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:17:17 -0500 From: Katy Bishop To: Gail & Scott Finke cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Katy Bishop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:17:16 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Thanks, I love the butterflies too, it looks great on the owner, and appropriate as she is a horticulturalist. There is a new brocade with dragonflies I'd love use. I love the vintage balls as a chance to get away from modern life for a while. We try and keep our balls low priced and usually, if we have live music, lose money on each one equal to about the cost of the hall ($15 pre-reg, $20 at the door) On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > >Wow, thanks for posting those pictures! The ballroom picture was just like >the balls I used to attend here in Cincinnati when Richard Powers was THE >vintage dance guru (they're still held almost monthly, but at $20 apiece my >husband and I can't afford to go and pay a babysitter too). > >I just LOVE that green gown with the butterflies. It's gorgeous. > >Gail Finke > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 14:04:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11745 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:04:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11J33tv028283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11J31PR021306; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11J17PR020580 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:01:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [167.142.12.211] (HELO herselftifhj9g) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 259017813 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:01:06 -0600 Message-ID: <025a01c2ca24$4ea58920$d30c8ea7@herselftifhj9g> From: "Land of Oz" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0257_01C2C9F2.039A07D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] american colonial dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:01:19 -0600 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0257_01C2C9F2.039A07D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am interested in American Colonial dress for men, women and children = in the mid 1600s. I have searched the archives and not found anything in recent messages, = so I hope I am not beating a dead horse. I know there are probably people on this list that can name some sources = right off the top of his/her head. My google searches are turning up = lots and lots of sites to wade through, but nothing very basic. I'm not = terribly interested in lengthy text only articles at this point, but = illustrations and basic information would be great. thanks Denise landofoz@netins.net ------=_NextPart_000_0257_01C2C9F2.039A07D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am interested in American Colonial dress for men, women and = children in=20 the mid 1600s.
 
I have searched the archives and not found anything in=20 recent messages, so I hope I am not beating a dead horse.
 
I know there are probably people on this list that can name=20 some sources right off the top of his/her head. My google searches = are=20 turning up lots and lots of sites to wade through, but nothing very = basic. I'm=20 not terribly interested in lengthy text only articles at this point, but = illustrations and basic information would be great.
 
thanks
Denise
 
------=_NextPart_000_0257_01C2C9F2.039A07D0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 14:15:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11795 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:15:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11JE7tv028872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:14:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11JE0PR024425; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11JDXPR024302 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-16-175.o1.jps.net ([216.119.16.175] helo=pavilion) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18f352-0006vN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 11:13:33 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c2ca27$36c1c8c0$af1077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <200302011808.h11I80C16809@adalia.ucdavis.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Historical Patterns printed at home Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:22:06 -0800 Status: RO >Gwyn wrote: > A friend told me this morning that some of the armourers share patterns > this way on their list. The trick is use a grid pattern embedded in the > background so you can verify scale. This is something they do for free > apparently; I'm not sure about anyone doing this as a business since the > files would be easily duplicated and spread around your potential audience > at a drop of a hat. > :), yes, I had thought of that. I would only consider this approach to a custom sized pattern. Thank you to every one for taking the time to respond. I appreciate that. Kind regards, Lisa Sinervo Threadneedle St. Clothiers www.ThreadneedleSt.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 14:27:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11851 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:27:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11JQ2tv029477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11JQ0PR027800; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h11JPWPR027580 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:25:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoKTgIPyrvWgjKhBO6tN2PKvppwcJ/sdNA=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPX4MR37; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 14:24:54 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] american colonial dress Message-ID: <20030201.132105.-495549.5.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_0d1f.7a9e.487d X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-6,19-25,27,29-30,32-33,38-41,42-32767 From: seamstrix@juno.com Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:21:04 -0600 Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_0d1f.7a9e.487d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It sounds like you are looking for information on mid-17th century costume. There's not too many people on the list who specialize in this period (Nicole is focused a bit later, right?), but as far as I know the clothing of the colonists was identical to that being worn in Northern Europe (England, France, Holland, Germany) at that time. The Colonies always followed the fashions of Europe. You'd need to look at middle-class and working class costume for most of it, but down in the Southern Colonies there were many exiles from Commonwealth England who often dressed in a more elaborate fashion. If you are looking at the Puritans of New England, they were dressing like the Continent but in a simplified version- lots of dull colors and plain white linen, but not all black and grey. Maybe if you gave us a particular context for the costume, we could be more specific as to what might have been worn. Karen On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:01:19 -0600 "Land of Oz" writes: I am interested in American Colonial dress for men, women and children in the mid 1600s. I have searched the archives and not found anything in recent messages, so I hope I am not beating a dead horse. I know there are probably people on this list that can name some sources right off the top of his/her head. My google searches are turning up lots and lots of sites to wade through, but nothing very basic. I'm not terribly interested in lengthy text only articles at this point, but illustrations and basic information would be great. thanks Denise landofoz@netins.net ----__JNP_000_0d1f.7a9e.487d Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It sounds like you are looking for information on mid-17th century = costume.=20 There's not too many people on the list who specialize in this period (= Nicole is=20 focused a bit later, right?), but as far as I know the clothing of the = colonists=20 was identical to that being worn in Northern Europe (England, France, = Holland,=20 Germany) at that time. The Colonies always followed the fashions of Europe.= =20 You'd need to look at middle-class and working class costume for most of it= , but=20 down in the Southern Colonies there were many exiles from Commonwealth = England=20 who often dressed in a more elaborate fashion. If you are looking at the=20 Puritans of New England, they were dressing like the Continent but in a=20 simplified version- lots of dull colors and plain white linen, but not all = black=20 and grey. Maybe if you gave us a particular context for the costume, we = could be=20 more specific as to what might have been worn.
 
 
Karen
 
 
 
On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:01:19 -0600 "Land of Oz" <landofoz@netins.net> writes:
I am interested in American Colonial dress for men, women and = children in=20 the mid 1600s.
 
I have searched the archives and not found anything in=20 recent messages, so I hope I am not beating a dead horse.
 
I know there are probably people on this list that can name=20 some sources right off the top of his/her head. My google searches = are=20 turning up lots and lots of sites to wade through, but nothing very basic= . I'm=20 not terribly interested in lengthy text only articles at this point, but= =20 illustrations and basic information would be great.
 
thanks
Denise
 
 
----__JNP_000_0d1f.7a9e.487d-- ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 15:40:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12124 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Kd2tv002991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Kd1Xa017847; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11KcsXa017799 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:38:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18f4Pb-0000hK-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 20:38:52 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catch it if you can References: <20030201.101156.-495549.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> <018f01c2ca16$d1f6d120$71794ed5@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <018f01c2ca16$d1f6d120$71794ed5@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:45:49 +0000 Status: RO Ooo! I wonder if this was the same film crew that caught us (Conquest) at Carlisle Castle, and tried to persuade us to pose as the Jacobite prisoners who were held there and supposedly had to lick the stones for water. We pointed out that we'd be closer in time if we wore our 21st century clothes than our 11th century ones! Jean Melanie Wilson wrote >>If you see a listing on A&E cable network for a show called "Hauntings: >London", try to catch it. I has our own Melanie Wilson in a featured role >as the nurse of Prior Rahere. Her son Alex is the older of the Princes in >the Tower, and her brother in law is dragging a witch to be burned. I'll >admit some of the costuming is kinda cheesy (not Mel's of course!), but >it's fun to see a list member in all their glory. > > >May I point out I fought long & hard to wear the costume I did & even THAT >was a compromise :) > >The costume was AWEFUL !!! (especially Alex's Victorian nighty !) > >Mel > >This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received >it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose >the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of >this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the >Company, unless specifically stated. > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 15:40:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12130 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:40:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11KdItv003010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11KdIXa017921; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11KctXa017802 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:38:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18f4Pb-0000hL-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 20:38:52 +0000 Message-ID: To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] Chicago - finally seen it. References: <95.27c1de25.2b3f9eae@aol.com> <00a101c2af6a$7c6b34b0$632faf40@angelap3a8d978> <001a01c2c4d6$a8ac3a20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <001a01c2c4d6$a8ac3a20$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:59:18 +0000 Status: RO Well, I finally got to see Chicago last night. I've been trying to get to the theatre version for ages, but was never in the same town at the same time, so it was great to see the movie. I reserved judgement when I saw Penny's original post, and it has been a fascinating discussion about fishnets. However, as soon as Velma came on stage I was confirmed in what I guessed - the dance sequences had absolutely nothing to do with the 1920s, and owed everything to (as my husband put it) "that well-know purveyor of sleaze, Bob Fosse". The opening number in particular, wouldn't just have been shocking, but probably would have been seen as ugly and chaotic, not something anyone would want to watch. And a white woman doing that sort of thing with a black man??!! So I didn't have any problem with them being dressed as a 60s/70s musical. The final number was probably fairly close to a vaudeville dance act of the time, and the dresses were reasonable (though the originals might have had a bit more skirt under the fringes). This is not to imply I didn't like it. I loved it all! And the street clothes and underwear were fabulous. I particularly liked the prison uniforms, and Roxie's hairstyle for her court appearance. Did you notice that it was left longer for the dance sequence after that, so she looked more like Marilyn Monroe? I normally don't find Renee Zellweger attractive, but those styles both looked much better on her than modern ones. Hum - back to watch Cabaret and Moulin Rouge, and wait until Chicago comes out on DVD Jean Uh-da-da, and all that jazzzz! Penny Ladnier wrote >I have a lot to say but I have to start with the #1 thing that really bothered >me about the film.  I hope and pray someone can prove me wrong because >I am having trouble with the thought that Colleen Atwood would make such >a big mistake.  Through-out the movie there were numerous close-ups of >dancers legs, including Catherine's with fishnet stockings in black and >white colors.  I came right home and checked three fashion dictionaries.  >Two said the fishnets were popular in the 1960s-1980s.  Not one mention >of them being around in the 1920s.  I checked my  fashion dictionary from >1939.  Fishnets were mentioned as a weave for use in veils and hairnets... >no mention of stockings.  I checked through some of my magazines and  >catalogs from the 1920s... no fishnet stockings.  So does someone have a >source that shows that fishnet stockings were used in the 1920s? >  >I like Angela question the dancers' costumes... they looked more like the >ones from the dance musicals of the late 30s/40s.  I just found the panty >cut hard to believe since swimsuit in the late 20s were just getting a little >high.  The corsets also seemed to be hitting high above the hips.  >  >A hint before going to see the film... read the interview with Richard Gere >in this month's Reader's Digest BEFORE going to see the film.  This helps >you get over the shock of seeing him sing.  He is from a very talented >family of musicians.  So singing Broadway is new to him but singing in >general is not.  The one thing he had to learn to do this film was tap >dance. >  >Street clothes... these were done really well.  My all time favorite costume >was Catherine's courtroom appearance.  I have seen this look for the >1920s several times in books and catalogs.  >  >All of Renee's street costumes were very period, especially the court >costume. >  >Queen Lafitah's costume during her singing number reminded me so much >of Hollywood glamour in the 30s.  It was beautiful on her and she wore it >well.  I think this is the prettiest I have ever seen her. >  >Hairstyles: >I adored Catherine's hairstyle and it was considered very fashionable in the >20s.  I just read this past week about this hairstyle. It was not supposed >to be lower than the jawline.  >  >Renee's style was so early 1920s...very classic, with the finger waves.  >When looking for the fishnets in catalogs, I came across wigs of Renee's >style.  I thought I was going to fall out of my seat laughing when I saw >Queen Lafitah had bleached her hair blonde and had the same style as >Renee's. >  >A couple of things to note about the film.  Catherine Zeta Jones was >pregnant during the filming.  You can tell the little tummy in some of the >dance shots.  I was a little disappointed in how little cleavage that Renee >really has.  I think I would have chosen some different stage costumes for >her to play it down.  When she was next to Catherine (who has plenty of >cleavage), it really takes away from Renee.... there is a reason the >Rockettes have to be a certain size.  It left me wondering... I thought I had >seen Renee at the Oscars with cleavage.... was she taped to death? >  >I really enjoyed the film but like Anglea, I am a sucker for musicals.  The >jailhouse tango was wonderful!  >       >Penny Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom >http://www.costumegallery.com >http://www.costumeclassroom.com >http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cabbage Rose > To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 1:45 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chicago > > Ok, Albert, I can't resist commenting! >   > I went to see Chicago Friday night (limited release, twenty six miles > from my home, grrr.) and I felt it was amazing.  While I enjoyed the > experience of Moulin Rouge, I found little to amaze me other than some > of the costumes, which of course, I never really saw except for flashes > anyway.  They were fanciful, as was the movie, but back to Chicago... >   > I just loved it.  I will say I love movie musicals and want them back.  I > grew up with the era of musicals, I produce musical theater and it's > something I think we miss in our culture.  That said, I hate the casting > of "stars" instead of singers to play in the few musicals that get > produced.  >   > I had none of these problems once the film began to roll.  I love the > twenties (back to obligatory costume content) and the period was > captured beautifull. I do believe Ms. Zellwegger is wearing antique 20s > underwear in the scene where she shoots Frankie, her lover.  The > dance costumes were just well, to die for.  Colleen Atwood (Sleepy > Hollow) took some really smashing underwear details from the period > and used them fancifully throughout her dance costuming.  I wasnt' > sure if the dance costumes were shorter than they would have been > (they looked almost like skaters costumes but way skimpier) but I > didn't care.  >   > The acting was outstanding.  Renee Zellwegger was the perfect 20s > moll. She was alternately ditsy and hard, but at all times very > believable and I wasn't busy thinking that's Renee Zellwegger, she was > Roxie Hart.  In fact she looked so 20s sleazy at the opening of the film > I wasn't positive it was even her.  Catherine Zeta-Jones is also very > good, but not as believably from the 20s.  There is a modern edge to > her performance that is there, but not enough to be distracting and they > both sing and dance amazingly.  This is not a show that calls for great > voices and the really difficult numbers were cut.  The 70s drek from the > stage play isn't there, it's fresh and amazing and Cell Block Tango was > just breathtaking.  The director/choreographer Rob Marshall did some > outstanding work.  I went with a friend who is an amazing > choreographer and he was impressed and it takes a lot to impress him > with dance numbers. >   > Even Richard Gere was completely believable as Billy Flynn.  The > courtroom tap dance scene may be my favorite courtroom scene of all > time.  With it's 20s backdrop, the movie focuses on how fleeting fame > is, how the Star/Globe/Enquirer style of journalism glorifies some pretty > nasty deeds and of course, on how the lawyer uses dirty tricks to get > them off in such a way as to make it very topical for todays world.  > There are so many parallels to current headlines, it just worked on > every level.  Most movies disappoint me these days, but this one did > not.  I'd be interested to know if anyone else enjoyed it as much. >   > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > Theatrical Costume Design -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 17:12:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12768 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:12:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11MB3tv007138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11MB1Xa013397; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11MA4Xa013156 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A3CEAD10144; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 17:01:50 -0500 Message-ID: <004d01c2ca3f$2a2f79a0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <025a01c2ca24$4ea58920$d30c8ea7@herselftifhj9g> Subject: Re: [h-cost] american colonial dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01C2CA15.3ECC5E20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:13:31 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C2CA15.3ECC5E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May I suggest once again that you check with Plimouth Plantation for a = list of the costume resources they use for their interpretation of the = Mayflower and the Plantation. Their date is 1627, but they might be = able to send you in the direction of the succeeding periods of the = British colonies in Boston/New England. It is my understanding that New = York costume will be more reflective of the Netherlands of the 17th = Century. Other eastern seabord colonies will follow the fashion trends = of the societies from which they sprang, either nationality or class. = = =20 Kathleen = = = = = = = ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Land of Oz=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 2:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] American colonial dress I am interested in American Colonial dress for men, women and children = in the mid 1600s. I have searched the archives and not found anything in recent = messages, so I hope I am not beating a dead horse. I know there are probably people on this list that can name some = sources right off the top of his/her head. My google searches are = turning up lots and lots of sites to wade through, but nothing very = basic. I'm not terribly interested in lengthy text only articles at this = point, but illustrations and basic information would be great. thanks Denise landofoz@netins.net = = = ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C2CA15.3ECC5E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
May I suggest once again that you check with = Plimouth=20 Plantation for a list of the costume resources they use for their = interpretation=20 of the Mayflower and the Plantation.  Their date is 1627, but they = might be=20 able to send you in the direction of the succeeding periods of the = British=20 colonies in Boston/New England.  It is my understanding that New = York=20 costume will be more reflective of the Netherlands of the 17th Century. = Other=20 eastern seabord colonies will follow the fashion trends of the societies = from=20 which they sprang, either nationality or=20 class.           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           =20  
  Kathleen  =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     ----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Land of Oz=20
Sent: Saturday, February 01, = 2003 2:01=20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] American = colonial=20 dress

I am interested in American Colonial dress for men, women and = children in=20 the mid 1600s.
 
I have searched the archives and not found anything in=20 recent messages, so I hope I am not beating a dead horse.
 
I know there are probably people on this list that can name=20 some sources right off the top of his/her head. My google = searches are=20 turning up lots and lots of sites to wade through, but nothing very = basic. I'm=20 not terribly interested in lengthy text only articles at this point, = but=20 illustrations and basic information would be great.
 
thanks
Denise
landofoz@netins.net        =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20        =20
------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C2CA15.3ECC5E20-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 17:49:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13203 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:49:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Mm3tv008682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Mm0Xa023557; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11MlkXa023501 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:47:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.116] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id ACA42C270150; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 17:39:32 -0500 Message-ID: <005d01c2ca44$6e575800$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:50:36 -0500 Status: RO Katy Bishop, please do not try to "hide" any sewing tool you treasure, or for which you have not provided yourself with a self addressed stamped envelope (padded) to send it home if it is discovered in your carry on luggage. Having just been through three grueling trips by air, I am feeling like a travel pro who has tried to second guess the latest guards or technology as to how to get beyond point one without setting off the alarms. The new machines are very sensitive. And, the latest x-ray gates require taking off your boots or shoes especially if they are of the platform variety (and your belt with metal buckle,..hair ornaments...I didn't see body piercing being the item that stops you for scrutiny, but. I felt I was a winner last weekend when I prepared my luggage for the new Giant X-Ray that was getting checked for the baggage hold and it went through with a hooked rug frame and all the fixings. (It might have been a bomb?) and it sailed right through, although was sure I would have to unpack my undies etc for all the airport to snicker at. May I suggest that you might do the initial piercing before you leave and 'bring them to life' with the aid of a slim pen. Earlier in the fall someone made mention of cutting your threads ahead of time in usable length and pre threading needles ( of the finer sort) and to get one of the finger or round cutters for in-flight trimming. And when you are going through security, be sure and have them carefully mounted in a neat roll up nee dle case. Then you have to caution the examiner that there are sharps present in that roll...so they don't go and prick themselves with your craft pack. If they draw blood, it makes the line stop DEAD, and you will have a moment when you might be considering calling your lawyer! Gone are the days...Good luck and have a Ball (as we used to say in the 50s) Kathleen l ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) > > I have a print out from my friend's travel company, they say you can > take non pointy scissors (kiddie scissors). There is no mention of > needles and pins. I am hoping I can do this. I will ask before my > checked baggage disappears! I need to hide my bone stiletto for > punching eyelette holes. > > Katy > > On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, dshoover wrote: > > >Please don't take you sewing things on the plane with you. They will just > >take them away from you when you go through security. Debbie > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Katy Bishop" > >To: "michiko" > >Cc: > >Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:30 PM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you > >Cathy (1800s gown colors) > > > > > >> > >> Well, you inspired me to take a couple of digital photos of the dress > >> pinned on the dress form I will add updates of the hopefully finished > >> dress, when I get back from Vienna. They can be viewed on my website > >> here: > >> > >> http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1830_dress.html > >> > >> I have some ecru lace, about 5" wide that might be nice on the bodice as > >> well as blue ribbon, brocade garnet ribbon, and cream brocade ribbon. > >> Can't decide which to do, but that will wait until I am en-route. I > >> will probably be sewing for the whole plane ride. > >> > >> The hardest part of the trip was choosing mundane clothes to wear to the > >> performance of the Magic Flute at the State Opera! I have no good > >> mundane dressy dresses. > >> > >> You can see the other dress I will be wearing in Vienna, at the Strauss > >> ball, here: > >> > >> http://www.vintagevictorian.com/gbh_appearances.html > >> > >> It is the deep royal blue 1860's gown, made to portray First Lady Julia > >> Dent Grant. > >> > >> This is a page I started showing some of the PBS film work our group has > >> done over the last couple of years. The most recent being the American > >> Experience that was on a couple of weeks ago called "Chicago: City of > >> the Century." Don't have any pictures of that one yet, but we got 1-2 > >> minutes of coverage, doing 1890's waltz in the third episode. This > >> web-page is far from finished, and not linked to my website yet. > >> > >> I had considered taking an 1890's gown to Vienna but my favorite ones > >> are all so heavy, my only light one being way to summery. You can see > >> some pictures of them here: > >> > >> http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1890_dresses.html > >> > >> All of these dresses were seen in the Chicago series (I made all but the > >> garnet and gold and the Blue). I think 1890's might be the easiest era > >> to wear to a ball in Vienna, and the half circle skirts waltz > >> wonderfully. > >> > >> Katy > >> > >> On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, michiko wrote: > >> > >> >>My 1830's gown is 1/2 done, with lots of handwork remaning. I hate the > >> >>idea of stuffing the puffed sleeves in a suitcase. > >> >> > >> >>Katy > >> > > >> >Hiya Katy! > >> > > >> >If you haven't posted pics already (i.e. just in case I missed it) I > >> >would love love love to see your dress so far! I'm just starting mine > >> >(vacillating between the entire range of 1800s styles and would love > >> >to see what someone is doing :) > >> > > >> >When do you return from Austria? Sounds like we might just be > >> >crossing paths! I'll be arriving around Feb 20th or 25th or so (still > >> >researching flight options). Cheering you on! Sounds very excting! > >> > > >> >Best, > >> >Michiko > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Hi Cathy! > >> > > >> >THANK YOU so much for the info so far on the color schemes of > >> >ballgowns in the 1800s...whites to pastels, to brighter aniline dyes > >> >after the 1850s...brilliant! This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! > >> >And the cotton bodice/poly skirt combination is a great suggestion as > >> >well! Would love those links if it's still convenient for you, and > >> >just wanted to say thank you again, so much! :) > >> > > >> >At the moment I'm still debating between that deep burgundy red (has > >> >the demure elegance of wearing a black dress without it actually > >> >being black) on a thinnish shirt-=like cotton (I'm assuming it will > >> >need a layer of interfacing as well as a muslin inner-lining?) ... > >> >and... the copper/coral/rust color (though now I know that was more > >> >likely a daytime color - thanks!) which is actually...gosh, I hope > >> >this is not totally gross...a poly liner fabric with a slight > >> >sheen...I'm tempted to try it because it seems like an unusual choice > >> >(and at $1 a yard it looks as fancy as the plain cotton) but I don't > >> >know if that's super cheesy of me? As long as it's interfaced and > >> >lined with a cotton (for danceability) could that still work, or am I > >> >heading straight for dance-disaster? Hee hee. (How some things > >> >suddenly start to really matter! ;) In terms of the color, it looks > >> >less severe and more playful than the matronly-serious > >> >burgundy..well, I am flim-flamming until it's actually time to buy > >> >the fabric (which I have to do today because they close on > >> >Saturdays). Feel free to cast your vote -- and sorry to be indecisive > >> >and a bit silly! > >> > > >> >Thanks again for the feedback! > >> > > >> >Best, > >> >Michiko > >> >-- > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >---------------------------------------- > >> >Michiko Stehrenberger > >> >Illustration & Character Design > >> >BimBionic Design Lab | New York > >> >http://www.michiko.com > >> >---------------------------------------- > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >h-costume mailing list > >> >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > > >> > >> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > >> vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > >> Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > >> Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 18:01:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13389 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:01:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11N12tv009135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11N11Xa026757; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11N0iXa026639 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:00:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-uive8pb.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.35.43] helo=[165.247.41.148]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18f6ct-0004dl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 15:00:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michiko@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030201150102.20195.20263.Mailman@net.indra.com> References: <20030201150102.20195.20263.Mailman@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: michiko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] regarding color of gloves in the 19th century Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:57:03 -0500 Status: RO >Michiko has mentioned that she is considering making matching gloves for = >her ball gown. Unless I have missed it, my research on accessories for = >the 19th century ballroom usually stress that the proper color of gloves = >is white or cream. In the post Civil War era one begins to find other = >colors being suggested, but this was a fad of the demi-monde and was not = >quite the thing for Ladies. Even black was not quite right but began to = >be acceptable for widows and women of age from about the 1880s.And = >then,of women of fashion (but not young women). You will find the fad of = >matching gloves in the 1950's and then the 1980's for prom wear in the = >youth set, but white remains for formal wear. Thanks Kathleen! This is great to hear...as I am thinking white/cream gloves will be prettier anyway, and my only chance to wear 'opera-length' to something actually remotely approaching being an opera :) I've so far only seen the satin $13 ones (prom all over again - shudder :) and am wondering if you could recommend an inexpensive source for something slightly nicer, not necessarily vintage, not necessarily kidskin (not sure if they make opera-length kidskin anyway) and above the elbow. The ones I'm seeing go to the elbow (unless I have stunningly long and apey arms and don't know it!) I don't want to accidentally go in mourning (black gloves that I have handy) so I'll have another poke around -- thanks again! Oooh, and are there pics of your massive glove collection anywhere online? (Sorry if everyone else already knows the answer to this). Thanks! Best, Michiko -- ---------------------------------------- Michiko Stehrenberger Illustration & Character Design BimBionic Design Lab | New York http://www.michiko.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 18:53:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13863 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:53:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Nq3tv011612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h11Nq1Xa011428; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h11Np9Xa011165 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:51:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoKTgIPyrvWgBvhlT702f6y3xSLF8XKhlw=="> Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HPYKU33S; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 18:51:03 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20030201.174558.-331345969.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,8-10 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] 18th Century Shoe Question Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:45:58 -0600 Status: RO Okay, so I have these very nice, black linen 18th century shoes that I got from Jas. Townsend and Son a couple of years ago. I also got a pair of brass buckles to attach the flaps (technical term?) on the front. Now all I need is some sort of clue as to HOW the buckles get attached to the flaps of the shoes. I have looked at them over and over and I must be very, very blonde because I can't figure it out for the life of me! Will anyone have pity on a poor, clueless blonde and tell me what I should be doing? Help! Karen ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 19:01:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13900 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:01:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12003tv011956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12001Xa013345; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h11NxFXa013107 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:59:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030201235909.75858.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 23:59:09 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <005d01c2ca44$6e575800$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 23:59:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Katy Bishop, please do not try to "hide" any sewing tool you treasure, or > for which you have not provided yourself with a self addressed stamped > envelope (padded) to send it home if it is discovered in your carry on > luggage. *big snippage* Well, yes, and what is so different to what it has always been like flying from and to within Europe? It has been like this for many years. IRA (in Britain) and RAF (German terrorists, not Royal Air Force) made sure of this. So, to be safe, I'd suggest you call your airline and make very sure. Are you allowed to take kids' scissors or not? Pins and needles or not? Etc. I used to sew on a plane, flying is so boring, but within Europe I now just read. As to historic costumes: what I usually do now is get lots of reading material i.e. photocopies and I work on those, doesn't matter if I spill some juice or coffee in a turbulence on those :-) Nicole - brought up in a terrorist threatened world, like many of my fellow Europeans ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 19:09:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13917 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:09:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12083tv012352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12081Xa015663; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h1207oXa015585 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:07:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030202000745.4752.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 00:07:45 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] american colonial dress To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030201.132105.-495549.5.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:07:45 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > It sounds like you are looking for information on mid-17th century > costume. There's not too many people on the list who specialize in this > period (Nicole is focused a bit later, right?), I'm appr. 1650s onwards (and not totally clueless in 1630s-40s but focused from 1660s to 1715). but as far as I know the > clothing of the colonists was identical to that being worn in Northern > Europe (England, France, Holland, Germany) at that time. The Colonies > always followed the fashions of Europe. You'd need to look at > middle-class and working class costume for most of it, but down in the > Southern Colonies there were many exiles from Commonwealth England who > often dressed in a more elaborate fashion. If you are looking at the > Puritans of New England, they were dressing like the Continent but in a > simplified version- lots of dull colors and plain white linen, but not > all black and grey. I reallt don't know ANYthing about the Colonies, I never bothered, because my research is centered and focused in the motherland, in Europe. Sorry! Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 19:33:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14014 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:33:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h120W3tv013552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h120W1Xa022276; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h120VlXb022203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:31:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-100-252.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.100.252]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h120VTVq073109 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:31:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Subject: Re: [h-cost] colored evening gloves Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--733299248 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <006901c2c9fb$6691ca40$725183d1@rmitchellras> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:31:33 -0800 Status: RO --Apple-Mail-4--733299248 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I don't know about 1830's -- Kendra would certainly have some idea --=20 but in the Regency period colored gloves were certainly worn all the time with the white muslin=20 dresses. There are hundreds of fashion plates of white muslin dresses offset by yellow and lavender=20 and (all kinds of crazy color) gloves. Always reminds me of Easter Eggs... .heather. On Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 06:08 AM, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Michiko has mentioned that she is considering making matching gloves=20= > for her ball gown.=A0 Unless I have missed it, my research on=20 > accessories for the 19th century ballroom usually stress that the=20 > proper color of gloves is white or cream.=A0 In the post Civil War era=20= > one begins to find other colors being suggested, but this was a fad of=20= > the demi-monde and was not quite the thing for Ladies. Even black was=20= > not quite right=A0but began to be acceptable for widows and women of = age=20 > from about the 1880s.And then,of women of fashion (but not young=20 > women). You will find the fad of=A0matching gloves in the 1950's and=20= > then the 1980's for prom wear in the youth set, but white remains for=20= > formal wear.=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0Kathleen, whose glove=20 > collection approaches Bartholomew's hats.=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 --Apple-Mail-4--733299248 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't know about 1830's -- Kendra would certainly have some idea -- but in the Regency period=20 colored gloves were certainly worn all the time with the white muslin dresses. There are hundreds of fashion plates of white muslin dresses offset by yellow and lavender and (all kinds of crazy color) gloves. Always reminds me of Easter Eggs... .heather. On Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 06:08 AM, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: Michiko has mentioned that she is considering making matching gloves for her ball gown.=A0 Unless I have missed it, my research on accessories for the 19th century ballroom usually stress that the proper color of gloves is white or cream.=A0 In the post Civil War era one begins to find other colors being suggested, but this was a fad of the demi-monde and was not quite the thing for Ladies. Even black was not quite right=A0but began to be acceptable for widows and women of age from about the 1880s.And then,of women of fashion (but not young women). You will find the fad of=A0matching gloves in the 1950's and then the 1980's for prom wear in the youth set, but white remains for formal wear.=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0Kathleen, whose glove collection approaches Bartholomew's hats.=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0 = --Apple-Mail-4--733299248-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 20:45:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14328 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:45:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h121i4tv016775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h121i1Xa011005; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h121hdXa010907 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:43:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from host-66-81-247-225.rev.o1.com ([66.81.247.225] helo=[66.81.247.182]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18f9AX-00080y-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 20:43:38 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001c2c9dc$f40dfa20$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <000001c2c9dc$f40dfa20$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: [h-cost] Re: swimsuit issue Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:34:36 -0800 Status: RO At 5:30 AM -0500 2/1/03, Linda Rice wrote: >It's that time of year again, and to get us inspired National Geographic >is featuring an article on "Swimsuits: 100 Years of Pictures". I haven't >personally seen it, but the link to preview it online is here: >http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ Ummm, yes. National Geographic points out that it's their first-ever "swimsuit issue." I saw it yesterday on a newsstand and leafed through it -- it's a hoot! They have photos of "bathing beauties" (male and female) from every decade, starting before 1900! Also of surfboards, beaches, a "tanning booth" from the '40s (I think it was) and all sorts of other fun stuff. The commentary is lots of fun too -- including a few pointed remarks about readers who, in supposedly more innocent days, used to look avidly through each new issue of NG in search of photos of bare-breasted women..... -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 22:15:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15105 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:15:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h123E5tv020566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h123E1Xa003939; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h123DYXa003807 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:13:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.111] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AAF02C800150; Sat, 01 Feb 2003 22:05:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c2ca69$912cbbc0$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <20030201150102.20195.20263.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] regarding color of gloves in the 19th century MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:17:06 -0500 Status: RO Hello again. By any chance, do you know what your glove size might be? Any good bridal shop should have the better Matte opera glove but depending on the size, I can check to see if I might have a duplicate pair of kid...just a thought. Do check for the right size, though. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "michiko" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: [h-cost] regarding color of gloves in the 19th century > >Michiko has mentioned that she is considering making matching gloves for = > >her ball gown. Unless I have missed it, my research on accessories for = > >the 19th century ballroom usually stress that the proper color of gloves = > >is white or cream. In the post Civil War era one begins to find other = > >colors being suggested, but this was a fad of the demi-monde and was not = > >quite the thing for Ladies. Even black was not quite right but began to = > >be acceptable for widows and women of age from about the 1880s.And = > >then,of women of fashion (but not young women). You will find the fad of = > >matching gloves in the 1950's and then the 1980's for prom wear in the = > >youth set, but white remains for formal wear. > > > > Thanks Kathleen! > > This is great to hear...as I am thinking white/cream gloves will be > prettier anyway, and my only chance to wear 'opera-length' to > something actually remotely approaching being an opera :) I've so far > only seen the satin $13 ones (prom all over again - shudder :) and am > wondering if you could recommend an inexpensive source for something > slightly nicer, not necessarily vintage, not necessarily kidskin (not > sure if they make opera-length kidskin anyway) and above the elbow. > The ones I'm seeing go to the elbow (unless I have stunningly long > and apey arms and don't know it!) > > I don't want to accidentally go in mourning (black gloves that I have > handy) so I'll have another poke around -- thanks again! Oooh, and > are there pics of your massive glove collection anywhere online? > (Sorry if everyone else already knows the answer to this). > > Thanks! > > Best, > Michiko > -- > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > Michiko Stehrenberger > Illustration & Character Design > BimBionic Design Lab | New York > http://www.michiko.com > ---------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sat Feb 1 22:36:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15141 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:36:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h123Z6tv021581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:35:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h123Z3Xa009430; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from s890.widexs.nl (s890.widexs.nl [212.204.254.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h123YmXa009350 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:34:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by s890.widexs.nl (Postfix, from userid 99) id 47CB31C0AD; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 04:39:37 +0100 (MET) From: Chiara To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online patterns for making opera-length gloves? References: <20030131183839.7064.16449.Mailman@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Host: [24.243.37.233] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: XS2Mail/0.6 (http://www.xs2mail.com/) Message-Id: <20030202033937.47CB31C0AD@s890.widexs.nl> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 03:39:37 -0000 Status: RO As far as I know I am still the only one that actually has a pattern online since 1993. http://www.glove.org all you need to do is lengthen the cuff to the length that you want. There are specific ways of doing the buttons depending on the thing you are trying to recreate. Let me know specifically what your needs are and I can quote you the appropriate period advise for it. I mainly specialize in Elizabethan gloves but have more source material that I can shake a stick at for all the other periods and very little in the one I specialize in. When I die someone is going to have a half wall of books just on gloves! Any how, modern gloves, 1900 on, have a different thumb that the ones I make. So you are safe getting a modern pattern from one of the major pattern companies and making it those. :) Chiara P.S. My best friend's name is Michiko. :) On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:08:21 -0500, michiko wrote: >Hello again! > >I have some black satin elbow-length gloves for this Vienna ballgown, >but am wondering if anyone's ever sewn their own (I'd like to make >some which match my dress -- burgundy or copper/coral -- whichever >color it ends up being, am debating and anguishing over that today ;) >and would mid-bicep be considered more 'opera-length'? > >Just wondering whether you'd consider sewing gloves really hard, or >no big deal (easier to just go buy them, or...?) and if you might >know of a place I could get a pattern and instructions online that >would be wonderful - thanks! > >Best, >Michiko >-- > > > > >---------------------------------------- >Michiko Stehrenberger >Illustration & Character Design >BimBionic Design Lab | New York >http://www.michiko.com >---------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- Chiara -- XS2Mail: Check your mail anywhere http://www.xs2mail.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 00:50:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16028 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:50:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h125n3tv026431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h125n1b1010795; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h125mlb2010735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:48:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h126KBI3006560 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:20:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h126KAgk006558 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:20:10 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030201235909.75858.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030201235909.75858.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302020120.10356.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h125mlb2010735 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:20:10 -0500 Status: RO On Saturday 01 February 2003 06:59 pm, N Kipar wrote: > *big snippage* > > Well, yes, and what is so different to what it has always been like flying > from and to within Europe? It has been like this for many years. IRA (in > Britain) and RAF (German terrorists, not Royal Air Force) made sure of > this. So, to be safe, I'd suggest you call your airline and make very sure. > Are you allowed to take kids' scissors or not? Pins and needles or not? > Etc. > > I used to sew on a plane, flying is so boring, but within Europe I now just > read. Me too (though I've done most of my flying in the continental U.S.). -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 00:57:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16079 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:57:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h125v3tv026743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h125v0b1012816; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h125udb2012717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:56:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h126S2I3006602 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:28:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h126S2gS006600 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:28:02 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] colored evening gloves User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302020128.02413.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h125udb2012717 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:28:02 -0500 Status: RO On Saturday 01 February 2003 07:31 pm, Heather Meadows wrote: > I don't know about 1830's -- Kendra would certainly have some idea -- > but in the Regency period > colored gloves were certainly worn all the time with the white muslin > dresses. There are hundreds of > fashion plates of white muslin dresses offset by yellow and lavender > and (all kinds of crazy color) > gloves. Always reminds me of Easter Eggs... For day wear or evening wear, though? Michiko's question was about gloves to wear with her ballgown. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 02:20:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16357 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 02:20:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h127J6tv029223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h127J0b1001001; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h127I3b1000766 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20030202071757053003kcioe>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:17:57 +0000 Message-ID: <006c01c2ca8b$35f85fd0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] colored evening gloves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 23:17:57 -0800 Status: RO >From all of my examinations of fashion plates of the 1830's (and I've looked at a LOT!), white or cream, below elbow length gloves seem to be de riguer for 1830s evening wear. No over the elbow, and no colors. A good source for matte gloves (if you can't find one local to you) is AlterYears (www.alteryears.com). - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 02:21:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16363 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 02:21:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h127L1tv029281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h127L1b1001470; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h127K2b1001222 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <2003020207195505200drok6e>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:19:55 +0000 Message-ID: <007901c2ca8b$7c338010$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <025a01c2ca24$4ea58920$d30c8ea7@herselftifhj9g> <004d01c2ca3f$2a2f79a0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] american colonial dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 23:19:55 -0800 Status: RO A great overview site on women's colonial dress is on the 18th century New England life webpages -- "On Dressing the Part" by Barbara Delory: http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/delory.htm Lots of other useful info on the main site, too -- http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/ - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 02:25:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16374 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 02:25:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h127P1tv029363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h127P0b1002209; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h127Opb1002165 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:24:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20030202072446053003ku0fe>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:24:46 +0000 Message-ID: <008401c2ca8c$2957d750$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: <20030201030843.2580.75394.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Onegin/Mansfield Park/cute men :) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 23:24:45 -0800 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "michiko" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:14 PM Subject: [h-cost] Onegin/Mansfield Park/cute men :) > Speaking of movies, wondering if anyone's seen Mansfield Park and > what they thought of the main actress's costumes? I thought they were > beautiful but seemed hip and modern (haven't researched yet what time > period that was) but anyway, I'd love to wear any of those the next > time I'm cast out and disinherited from a wealthy family and sent > back to the docks, aye! :) Agreed, Michiko! Fanny's ever-present dark sleeveless dress over white chemise (with a VERY masculine collar -- http://www.erasofelegance.com/mp2.jpg) always strikes me as very modern schoolgirlish, and the somewhat vampy character (whose name I've forgotten -- the one Fanny's beau falls for first) has dresses that strike me as VERY modern, especially the black lace number (http://www.erasofelegance.com/mp9.jpg) - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 03:31:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16524 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:31:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h128U6tv001202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h128U1b1015548; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f74.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h128T6b1015318 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:24:30 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 08:24:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brocade Fabrics? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2003 08:24:30.0976 (UTC) FILETIME=[824BA000:01C2CA94] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 00:24:30 -0800 Status: RO If accuracy isn't a huge thing then do seller searc on ebay for woods7777 . I have bought several pieces from her and while synthetic, they are really stunning. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >I'm looking for brocade fabric to make the forepart for an Elizabethan >costume. I only need about two yards, and it doesn't have to be >historically >accurate ("interpretation" is what I'm looking for). I also can't afford >to >spend $100 per yard, as I haven't purchased anything else for the costume >yet. Does anyone have any sources for brocade _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 05:16:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17217 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 05:16:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12AF4tv004076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12AF1b1021283; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.suscom.net (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12AEIb1017022 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:14:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (userweb.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7E2111CB6 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 05:14:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourczpl0pp1h9 (ip189.96.susc.suscom.net [64.78.96.189]) by smtp.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4519D111B50 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 05:14:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007f01c2caa3$2e6116f0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brocade Fabrics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 05:09:32 -0500 Status: RO I have dealt with this seller, and her fabrics are beautiful. I also highly recommend fabricmasterpieces@yahoo.com. I buy from him a LOT. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Sena" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:24 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brocade Fabrics? > If accuracy isn't a huge thing then do seller searc on ebay for woods7777 . > I have bought several pieces from her and while synthetic, they are really > stunning. > > > > Jennifer Sena > Distant Designs > http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > > I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > > > >I'm looking for brocade fabric to make the forepart for an Elizabethan > >costume. I only need about two yards, and it doesn't have to be > >historically > >accurate ("interpretation" is what I'm looking for). I also can't afford > >to > >spend $100 per yard, as I haven't purchased anything else for the costume > >yet. Does anyone have any sources for brocade > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 09:13:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21771 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:13:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12EC6tv009094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:12:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12EC0b1016894; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12EBsb1016855 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:11:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.12c.22011a89 (3699) for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:11:38 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <12c.22011a89.2b6e8119@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] regarding color of gloves in the 19th century To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_12c.22011a89.2b6e8119_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10630 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:11:37 EST Status: RO --part1_12c.22011a89.2b6e8119_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/1/2003 6:02:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, michiko@michiko.com writes: > an inexpensive source for something > slightly nicer, not necessarily vintage, not necessarily kidskin (not > sure if they make opera-length kidskin anyway) and above the elbow. > A couple of suggestions--try bridal stores, for non-kidskin. You can still get kidskin (I think Nordstrom has them), but they are hideously expensive--over $200 several years ago. And try thrift stores. I have found both the good-quality Italian-made cotton and kidskin at thrift stores. Ann Wass --part1_12c.22011a89.2b6e8119_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/1/2003 6:02:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, michiko@michiko.com writes:


an inexpensive source for something
slightly nicer, not necessarily vintage, not necessarily kidskin (not
sure if they make opera-length kidskin anyway) and above the elbow.


A couple of suggestions--try bridal stores, for non-kidskin.  You can still get kidskin (I think Nordstrom has them), but they are hideously expensive--over $200 several years ago.  And try thrift stores.  I have found both the good-quality Italian-made cotton and kidskin at thrift stores.
Ann Wass --part1_12c.22011a89.2b6e8119_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 10:14:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22030 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:14:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12FD3tv010838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12FD1b1029211; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12FC1b1028982 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.12f.21fabe1e (25914) for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:11:48 -0500 (EST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Message-ID: <12f.21fabe1e.2b6e8f34@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_12f.21fabe1e.2b6e8f34_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL For Mac OS X sub 25 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1773 - 7 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:11:48 EST Status: RO --part1_12f.21fabe1e.2b6e8f34_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit two quick suggestions for two posts: Re the long gloves, there is a place in San Francisco that caters to the drag queen/rocker chick crowd that sells gloves in a wide variety of colors, I think mostly stretch velvet and satin fabric, in both elbow and opera length. They also have belly dance stuff, cigarette holders, seamed stockings, wigs, hats and a multitude of other fun stuff It's called "Piedmont" http://www.piedmontsf.com/piedmontsfcom/directory.html I cant imagine new york doesnt have something like it as well... Re the townsend shoes, you need buckles that have "teeth" on the that poke thru the flaps in front, it's kind of hard to describe...but Townsend usually sends directions on how to do this with the shoes, call them for a more complete description, I'm sure they will be happy to give it to you. Cheers, Loren --part1_12f.21fabe1e.2b6e8f34_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
two quick suggestions for two posts:

Re the long gloves, there is a place in San Francisco that caters to the drag queen/rocker chick crowd that sells gloves in a wide variety of colors, I think mostly stretch velvet and satin fabric, in both elbow and opera length.  They also have belly dance stuff, cigarette holders, seamed stockings, wigs, hats and a multitude of other fun stuff It's called "Piedmont"

http://www.piedmontsf.com/piedmontsfcom/directory.html

I cant imagine new york doesnt have something like it as well...


Re the townsend shoes, you need buckles that have "teeth" on the that poke thru the flaps in front, it's kind of hard to describe...but Townsend usually sends directions on how to do this with the shoes, call them for a more complete description, I'm sure they will be happy to give it to you. 

Cheers,

Loren --part1_12f.21fabe1e.2b6e8f34_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 10:43:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22132 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:43:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12Fg5tv011654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:42:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12Fg2b1005934; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12Ff4b2005587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-202-187-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.187.193]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h12FejVq077655 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:40:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Onegin/Mansfield Park/cute men :) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <008401c2ca8c$2957d750$befc8218@hopperflop2> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:40:59 -0800 Status: RO good point - but by describing them as schoolgirlish and vampish i think you've demonstrated exactly why the costume designer chose them for a modern audience ;) .heather. On Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 11:24 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "michiko" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:14 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Onegin/Mansfield Park/cute men :) > > > > >> Speaking of movies, wondering if anyone's seen Mansfield Park and >> what they thought of the main actress's costumes? I thought they were >> beautiful but seemed hip and modern (haven't researched yet what time >> period that was) but anyway, I'd love to wear any of those the next >> time I'm cast out and disinherited from a wealthy family and sent >> back to the docks, aye! :) > > > > Agreed, Michiko! Fanny's ever-present dark sleeveless dress over white > chemise (with a VERY masculine collar -- > http://www.erasofelegance.com/mp2.jpg) always strikes me as very modern > schoolgirlish, and the somewhat vampy character (whose name I've > forgotten -- the one Fanny's beau falls for first) has dresses that > strike > me as VERY modern, especially the black lace number > (http://www.erasofelegance.com/mp9.jpg) > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 11:06:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22259 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:06:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12G54tv012518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12G51b1011136; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12G48b1010907 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:04:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1da.16c7bf6 (4584) for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:04:00 -0500 (EST) From: Morses3@aol.com Message-ID: <1da.16c7bf6.2b6e9b70@aol.com> To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1da.16c7bf6.2b6e9b70_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Subject: [h-cost] 17th century New England clothing Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:04:00 EST Status: RO --part1_1da.16c7bf6.2b6e9b70_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.plimoth.org/Library/costume.htm http://members.aol.com/calebj/clothing.html http://web.ccsd.k12.wy.us/Social%20Studies/05/0101pilcloth.html These three links have great information about 17th century clothing at least in colonial Massachusetts. I've done a lot of genealogy research for the time period (I have a lot of Mayflower ancestors-hey, they all married their first cousins!), and one of the big misconceptions about the period is the "all black", somber color story. Successful and wealthy people of the period liked to be seen in black in their portraits and special occasions because black was the most expensive color to own since it wasn't very colorfast and required more care, Puritans at least were very able to reconcile their religious fervor and financial success as recognition by a higher power of their preordained life. There were MANY laws regarding inappropriate attire and people were often singled out and punished, repeatedly in many cases, so obviously there were clothes being worn that were, in their eyes, inappropriate. A lot of lace and slashing are two good examples along with laws regarding the wearing of jewelry. Keep in mind also that our modern concept of fashions not changing much during this century because of the "frontier" quality of their life are often not correct. Many of the settlers of both New England (and Virginia too) were from well to do backgrounds and often educated at universities and certainly had the desire and money to have shipments of fashionable and even luxurious merchandise sent to America at a very early stage, including glass, spices, and fabrics. The more "middling" class would have been certain to at least emulate the more prosperous people of their community as much as they could, early New England accounts of daily life often mention a great interest in the clothing worn by visitors from other places or to special Church occasions. Good luck in your search! Perry --part1_1da.16c7bf6.2b6e9b70_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.plimoth.org/Library/costume.htm
http://members.aol.com/calebj/clothing.html
http://web.ccsd.k12.wy.us/Social%20Studies/05/0101pilcloth.html

These three links have great information about 17th century clothing at least in colonial Massachusetts.

I've done a lot of genealogy research for the time period (I have a lot of Mayflower ancestors-hey, they all married their first cousins!), and one of the big misconceptions about the period is the "all black", somber color story. Successful and wealthy people of the period liked to be seen in black in their portraits and special occasions because black was the most expensive color to own since it wasn't very colorfast and required more care, Puritans at least were very able to reconcile their religious fervor and financial success as recognition by a higher power of their preordained life.

There were MANY laws regarding inappropriate attire and people were often singled out and punished, repeatedly in many cases, so obviously there were clothes being worn that were, in their eyes, inappropriate. A lot of lace and slashing are two good examples along with laws regarding the wearing of jewelry.

Keep in mind also that our modern concept of fashions not changing much during this century because of the "frontier" quality of their life are often not correct. Many of the settlers of both New England (and Virginia too) were from well to do backgrounds and often educated at universities and certainly had the desire and money to have shipments of fashionable and even luxurious merchandise sent to America at a very early stage, including glass, spices, and fabrics. The more "middling" class would have been certain to at least emulate the more prosperous people of their community as much as they could, early New England accounts of daily life often mention a great interest in the clothing worn by visitors from other places or to special Church occasions.

Good luck in your search!

Perry --part1_1da.16c7bf6.2b6e9b70_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 12:28:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22658 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:28:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12HR3tv016052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12HR0ha000150; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f7.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12HQMha029924 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:26:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:26:17 -0800 Received: from 151.199.134.80 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 17:26:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.134.80] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] colored evening gloves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2003 17:26:17.0481 (UTC) FILETIME=[31AEA790:01C2CAE0] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 12:26:17 -0500 Status: RO You might want to look at English Women's Clothing in the 19thn Century by C.Willett Cunnington. It has a year-by-year breakdown of fashions; by 1827 evening gloves are below the elbow, and white kid seems to be the preferred material. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >From: Catherine Olanich Raymond >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] colored evening gloves >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:28:02 -0500 > >On Saturday 01 February 2003 07:31 pm, Heather Meadows wrote: > > I don't know about 1830's -- Kendra would certainly have some idea -- > > but in the Regency period > > colored gloves were certainly worn all the time with the white muslin > > dresses. There are hundreds of > > fashion plates of white muslin dresses offset by yellow and lavender > > and (all kinds of crazy color) > > gloves. Always reminds me of Easter Eggs... > >For day wear or evening wear, though? Michiko's question was about gloves >to >wear with her ballgown. > > >-- >Cathy Raymond > >"If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 12:46:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22841 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:46:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12Hj2tv016891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12Hj1ha004848; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f99.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.163.99]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12HiYha004738 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:44:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:44:29 -0800 Received: from 151.199.134.80 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 17:44:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.199.134.80] From: "Nancy Kiel" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] american colonial dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2003 17:44:29.0001 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC476390:01C2CAE2] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 12:44:28 -0500 Status: RO You might want to try Historic Dress in America 1607-1870 by McClellan and Two Centuries of Costume in America 1620-1820 by Earle. THey have a number of contemporary illustrations and comments. And of course (required commercial announcement), Colonial Williamsburg has several publications, you may want to check the web site. And the Los Angeles County Museum of Art has several pieces from the period in its collection, I am told. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. ----- Original Message ----- > From: Land of Oz > To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 2:01 PM > Subject: [h-cost] American colonial dress > > > I am interested in American Colonial dress for men, women and children >in the mid 1600s. > > I have searched the archives and not found anything in recent messages, >so I hope I am not beating a dead horse. > > I know there are probably people on this list that can name some sources >right off the top of his/her head. My google searches are turning up lots >and lots of sites to wade through, but nothing very basic. I'm not terribly >interested in lengthy text only articles at this point, but illustrations >and basic information would be great. > > thanks > Denise > landofoz@netins.net _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 13:59:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23347 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:59:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12Iw3tv020253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12Iw0ha007624; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:58:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12Ivchb007478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:57:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h12JTDI3017843 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:29:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h12JTDJQ017841 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:29:13 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] colored evening gloves User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302021429.12846.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h12Ivchb007478 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:29:12 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 02 February 2003 12:26 pm, Nancy Kiel wrote: > You might want to look at English Women's Clothing in the 19thn Century by > C.Willett Cunnington. It has a year-by-year breakdown of fashions; by 1827 > evening gloves are below the elbow, and white kid seems to be the preferred > material. > Indeed. I mentioned Cunnington's book to Michiko at one point. Though I hadn't looked up what it has to say on the gloves issue. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 15:06:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23699 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:06:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12K54tv023850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12K50ha026582; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h12K4Bha026342 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:04:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003020220040405100ht6u6e>; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:04:05 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c2caf6$3cd67b50$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Onegin/Mansfield Park/cute men :) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:03:55 -0800 Status: RO Oh, but of course! And hey, I've got Mansfield Park on my DVD shelf (I just don't go to it for costume inspiration)! - K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 7:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Onegin/Mansfield Park/cute men :) > good point - but by describing them as schoolgirlish and vampish i think > you've demonstrated exactly why the costume designer chose them for > a modern audience ;) > > .heather. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 21:41:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25594 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:41:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h132e5tv011797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h132e1al014489; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h132dtal014450 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:39:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.173] (pm5-173.eos.net [205.133.149.173]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13345 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:39:49 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030131152600.24997.14694.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bjarne's doll Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:36:32 -0500 Status: RO Bjarne: If this is what your first doll looks like, and you think you will do better when you have more time, then I can't wait to see how you do! This is really lovely, she looks like you have been doing this for a long time! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 21:47:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25617 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:47:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h132k3tv012233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h132k2al016572; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from gw.retro.com (gw.retro.com [205.179.181.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h132jQal016395 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:45:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from lee@localhost) by gw.retro.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id TAA17396 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:08:17 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Message-Id: <200302030308.TAA17396@gw.retro.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] regarding color of gloves in the 19th century Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:08:17 -0800 (PST) Status: RO "michiko" wrote: > > > > This is great to hear...as I am thinking white/cream gloves will be > > prettier anyway, and my only chance to wear 'opera-length' to > > something actually remotely approaching being an opera :) I've so far > > only seen the satin $13 ones (prom all over again - shudder :) and am > > wondering if you could recommend an inexpensive source for something > > slightly nicer, not necessarily vintage, not necessarily kidskin (not > > sure if they make opera-length kidskin anyway) and above the elbow. > > The ones I'm seeing go to the elbow (unless I have stunningly long > > and apey arms and don't know it!) Opera length cotton gloves: http://www.finalegloves.com/cotton.html However, this place is pretty pricey. Drat, the cheaper place doesn't do long cotton gloves. However, their stretch velvet and "wrinkled satin" ones are wild. http://shop.store.yahoo.com/essenceofe/gloves.html For definitions, opera length is _longer_ than the ones that come just above the elbow. Common glove lengths are wrist length, long wrist, elbow length, above elbow and opera length (which should hit mid-bicep). Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 22:00:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25689 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:00:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h132x1tv012794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h132x0al020371; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:59:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h132w5al020117 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:58:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.133.149.173] (pm5-173.eos.net [205.133.149.173]) by alpha.eos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17089 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:57:59 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030130235101.26506.98419.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: titanic dress Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:54:42 -0500 Status: RO After reading Penny's long letter, I had to go see what the fuss was about. The letters of authenticity aren't exactly that, but the giveaway (to me) is that the gown is photographed laid out on a dirty white carpet, not even stuck on a dress form or mannequin! Way to showcase a gown you want a lot of money for! Apparently someone was willing to pay almost $7,000 for it, though. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 23:07:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26172 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:07:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13463tv016070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13462pB009426; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1345fpB009343 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:05:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from dandy.net (acty4007.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.249.7]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1345dse006193 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:05:40 -0500 Message-ID: <3E3DEADF.A5EC8FB9@dandy.net> From: leigh tartaglio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century New England clothing References: <1da.16c7bf6.2b6e9b70@aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6F051DDB47A007DEE735130B" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:06:55 -0500 Status: RO --------------6F051DDB47A007DEE735130B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morses3@aol.com wrote: > http://www.plimoth.org/Library/costume.htm > http://members.aol.com/calebj/clothing.html > http://web.ccsd.k12.wy.us/Social%20Studies/05/0101pilcloth.html > > These three links have great information about 17th century clothing > at least in colonial Massachusetts. Hi. Just a note. there were some innacuracies on the website by caleb j, specifically something about men wearing short-sleeved shirts (?!). The PP site on clothing was nice. It shows a good example of clothing terms that are commonly accepted by costume historians. Mike T. --------------6F051DDB47A007DEE735130B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Morses3@aol.com wrote:

http://www.plimoth.org/Library/costume.htm
http://members.aol.com/calebj/clothing.html
http://web.ccsd.k12.wy.us/Social%20Studies/05/0101pilcloth.html

These three links have great information about 17th century clothing at least in colonial Massachusetts.

Hi. Just a note. there were some innacuracies on the website by caleb j, specifically something about men wearing short-sleeved shirts (?!). The PP site on clothing was nice. It shows a good example of clothing terms that are commonly accepted by costume historians.  Mike T. --------------6F051DDB47A007DEE735130B-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 23:15:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26234 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:15:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h134E1tv016405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h134E0pB011361; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:14:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h134D2pB011056 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:13:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2003020304125600200i6103e>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 04:12:56 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030202200747.00a3d4c0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you Cathy (1800s gown colors) In-Reply-To: References: <005901c2c9ce$613c8f80$df12e10c@attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 20:11:10 -0800 Status: RO I travel a lot within the US, and I usually take some sewing on the plane. They have never bothered me about pins and needles. As for cutting, I have a round thing from clover that has cutting edges. It has never been challenged. It works really well on thread and less well on ribbon. put the stiletto in your checked baggage. and have fun... maryann At 08:28 AM 2/1/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I have a print out from my friend's travel company, they say you can >take non pointy scissors (kiddie scissors). There is no mention of >needles and pins. I am hoping I can do this. I will ask before my >checked baggage disappears! I need to hide my bone stiletto for >punching eyelette holes. > >Katy > >On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, dshoover wrote: > > >Please don't take you sewing things on the plane with you. They will just > >take them away from you when you go through security. Debbie > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Katy Bishop" > >To: "michiko" > >Cc: > >Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:30 PM > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Would love to see Katy's gown so far :) & Thank you > >Cathy (1800s gown colors) > > > > > >> > >> Well, you inspired me to take a couple of digital photos of the dress > >> pinned on the dress form I will add updates of the hopefully finished > >> dress, when I get back from Vienna. They can be viewed on my website > >> here: > >> > >> http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1830_dress.html > >> > >> I have some ecru lace, about 5" wide that might be nice on the bodice as > >> well as blue ribbon, brocade garnet ribbon, and cream brocade ribbon. > >> Can't decide which to do, but that will wait until I am en-route. I > >> will probably be sewing for the whole plane ride. > >> > >> The hardest part of the trip was choosing mundane clothes to wear to the > >> performance of the Magic Flute at the State Opera! I have no good > >> mundane dressy dresses. > >> > >> You can see the other dress I will be wearing in Vienna, at the Strauss > >> ball, here: > >> > >> http://www.vintagevictorian.com/gbh_appearances.html > >> > >> It is the deep royal blue 1860's gown, made to portray First Lady Julia > >> Dent Grant. > >> > >> This is a page I started showing some of the PBS film work our group has > >> done over the last couple of years. The most recent being the American > >> Experience that was on a couple of weeks ago called "Chicago: City of > >> the Century." Don't have any pictures of that one yet, but we got 1-2 > >> minutes of coverage, doing 1890's waltz in the third episode. This > >> web-page is far from finished, and not linked to my website yet. > >> > >> I had considered taking an 1890's gown to Vienna but my favorite ones > >> are all so heavy, my only light one being way to summery. You can see > >> some pictures of them here: > >> > >> http://www.vintagevictorian.com/1890_dresses.html > >> > >> All of these dresses were seen in the Chicago series (I made all but the > >> garnet and gold and the Blue). I think 1890's might be the easiest era > >> to wear to a ball in Vienna, and the half circle skirts waltz > >> wonderfully. > >> > >> Katy > >> > >> On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, michiko wrote: > >> > >> >>My 1830's gown is 1/2 done, with lots of handwork remaning. I hate the > >> >>idea of stuffing the puffed sleeves in a suitcase. > >> >> > >> >>Katy > >> > > >> >Hiya Katy! > >> > > >> >If you haven't posted pics already (i.e. just in case I missed it) I > >> >would love love love to see your dress so far! I'm just starting mine > >> >(vacillating between the entire range of 1800s styles and would love > >> >to see what someone is doing :) > >> > > >> >When do you return from Austria? Sounds like we might just be > >> >crossing paths! I'll be arriving around Feb 20th or 25th or so (still > >> >researching flight options). Cheering you on! Sounds very excting! > >> > > >> >Best, > >> >Michiko > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Hi Cathy! > >> > > >> >THANK YOU so much for the info so far on the color schemes of > >> >ballgowns in the 1800s...whites to pastels, to brighter aniline dyes > >> >after the 1850s...brilliant! This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! > >> >And the cotton bodice/poly skirt combination is a great suggestion as > >> >well! Would love those links if it's still convenient for you, and > >> >just wanted to say thank you again, so much! :) > >> > > >> >At the moment I'm still debating between that deep burgundy red (has > >> >the demure elegance of wearing a black dress without it actually > >> >being black) on a thinnish shirt-=like cotton (I'm assuming it will > >> >need a layer of interfacing as well as a muslin inner-lining?) ... > >> >and... the copper/coral/rust color (though now I know that was more > >> >likely a daytime color - thanks!) which is actually...gosh, I hope > >> >this is not totally gross...a poly liner fabric with a slight > >> >sheen...I'm tempted to try it because it seems like an unusual choice > >> >(and at $1 a yard it looks as fancy as the plain cotton) but I don't > >> >know if that's super cheesy of me? As long as it's interfaced and > >> >lined with a cotton (for danceability) could that still work, or am I > >> >heading straight for dance-disaster? Hee hee. (How some things > >> >suddenly start to really matter! ;) In terms of the color, it looks > >> >less severe and more playful than the matronly-serious > >> >burgundy..well, I am flim-flamming until it's actually time to buy > >> >the fabric (which I have to do today because they close on > >> >Saturdays). Feel free to cast your vote -- and sorry to be indecisive > >> >and a bit silly! > >> > > >> >Thanks again for the feedback! > >> > > >> >Best, > >> >Michiko > >> >-- > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >---------------------------------------- > >> >Michiko Stehrenberger > >> >Illustration & Character Design > >> >BimBionic Design Lab | New York > >> >http://www.michiko.com > >> >---------------------------------------- > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >h-costume mailing list > >> >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > > >> > >> Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > >> vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > >> Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > >> Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian >vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Sun Feb 2 23:41:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26340 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:40:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h134e2tv017781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h134e1pB018130; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h134dipB018079 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:39:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18fYOV-0007bV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 20:39:43 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000501c2cb3e$4f84a860$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2CB03.A325D060" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:39:56 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2CB03.A325D060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would be interested in the groups suggestions for providers of generic renfaire garb for approximately the late 16th century 'England'. One of the groups I work with has recently obtained a contract with a local Ren Faire (Arizona Renaissance Festival). We have several new members who have little interest in sewing and need decent garb. The Faire is far from rigorous, but we would like to encourage, if not accuracy, well made garb. Do you all have some suggestions? I have already pointed them to some items on the Historic Enterprises web site. Are there others you would recommend? Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2CB03.A325D060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I would be interested in the groups suggestions for providers of generic renfaire garb for = approximately the late 16th century = ‘England’.  One of the groups I work with = has recently obtained a contract with a local Ren Faire (Arizona Renaissance Festival).  We have several new members who have little interest in sewing and need = decent garb.  The Faire is far = from rigorous, but we would like to encourage, if not accuracy, well made garb.  

 

Do you all have some suggestions?  I have already pointed them to = some items on the Historic Enterprises web site.  Are there others you would = recommend?

 

Sg

 

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2CB03.A325D060-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 00:27:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26431 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 00:27:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h135Q2tv019703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h135Q1pB029195; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h135PUpC029088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:25:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h135vEI3019956 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 00:57:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h135vEQr019954 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 00:57:14 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <000501c2cb3e$4f84a860$6601a8c0@mycomputer> In-Reply-To: <000501c2cb3e$4f84a860$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302030057.14283.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h135PUpC029088 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 00:57:14 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 02 February 2003 11:39 pm, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > I would be interested in the groups suggestions for providers of generic > renfaire garb for approximately the late 16th century 'England'. One of > the groups I work with has recently obtained a contract with a local Ren > Faire (Arizona Renaissance Festival). We have several new members who > have little interest in sewing and need decent garb. The Faire is far > from rigorous, but we would like to encourage, if not accuracy, well > made garb. > > Do you all have some suggestions? I have already pointed them to some > items on the Historic Enterprises web site. Are there others you would > recommend? Historic Enterprises is a wonderful site. They are more interested in/capable of authenticity than most sites I've seen, but except for custom jobs, they mostly concentrate on 15th c and earlier. (If you're new members were entering a 15th c. group, I'd say look no further. Based on what I've seen on the site, HE appears to be more authentic than many groups would demand.) For 16th c., though, HE can't really sell you any clothing than will be useful. What sort of place I'd suggest depends a lot on how rigorous your new members want to be and on how much they are willing to spend. For example, Chivalry Sports: www.renstore.com isn't terribly authentic overall, but most of their basic items (I can only talk about doublets, breeches, and chemises because that's all I've bought from them in the way of 16th C. clothing) seem to be reasonably well made. (They do sell tie-in sleeves with their standard bodices and doublets, which strikes me as a very good thing.) They sell a bit of noble garb but not much, (I know you used to be able to buy all the components for a 1530's noblewomen's gown--bodice, skirt, forepart, french hood, and chemise) for a total of about $350, but from the pictures it struck me as overpriced and unattractive for what you got. Their "peasant" line strikes me as dissappointing from an authenticity viewpoint, but their cotton twill garments (what I bought for my husband) might do as a starting point for a middle-class 16th c. interpretation. CS also sells costume books, accessories (including a 4 hoop skirt that can be used as an early farthingale, though it's dissappointingly flimsy) and armor and weapons for SCA use and otherwise. (Be warned--they also sell cutesy dragon and unicorn sculptures and tacky not-even-really perioid jewelry). Elizabethan Arts: www.elizabethanarts.safeshopper.com strikes me asmuch better than CS from the authenticity perspective, and their prices are reasonable, but their selection is highly limited. They only sell shirts for men. For women, they sell a reasonable chemise, two different models of bumroll which look very good, a bodice that should work for peasant or lower-middle class impressions, and a sort of low-end noble's gown. They also have rather a rather nice pomander and some nice purses. Round Two Costumes: www.roundtwocostumes.com also does 16th c. The seamstress who runs it is Colorado based and used to do custom order. She makes a high necked noble's style chemise (either ankle or hip length) which looks nice, as well as a standard type bodice and skirt. She's revamping the site and doesn't yet have up an off-the-rack section for men. She has a subsite which is a custom corset shop. There's also a section on Drea Leed's Elizabethan Costume site where she gives links to other purveyors of Renn/Elizabethan costume items and supplies. You and your new members could check it out and see what works. Good luck. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 04:04:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09158 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 04:04:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13938tv025600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 02:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13931pB015826; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 02:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1392ZpB015740 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 02:02:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f97.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.151]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D13F262A4E for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:02:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001501c2cb63$7f598810$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <000501c2cb3e$4f84a860$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2CB6B.E0D415D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:06:11 +0100 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2CB6B.E0D415D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Saragrace There also is me. If there is a lady who wants something specially made. = I can provide. I do long distance and it is possible. I have a costumer right now who = lives in Denver, Colorado and i made her corset long distance. I send = her a corset i had made after her meassures, and it only had to be = altered very little. If the client has a camera and she can take photos of the garb i send, = then it is ok. I am not cheap, but i am not expensive either. I would love to do = something late elizabethan and i can provide with handmade renaissance = lace. I made black linen lace for Drea Leed. And my embroidery isnt bad = either. But i have orders waiting, and i could not make anything till some = months later. =20 Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Saragrace Knauf=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 5:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? I would be interested in the groups suggestions for providers of = generic renfaire garb for approximately the late 16th century 'England'. = One of the groups I work with has recently obtained a contract with a = local Ren Faire (Arizona Renaissance Festival). We have several new = members who have little interest in sewing and need decent garb. The = Faire is far from rigorous, but we would like to encourage, if not = accuracy, well made garb. =20 =20 Do you all have some suggestions? I have already pointed them to some = items on the Historic Enterprises web site. Are there others you would = recommend? =20 Sg =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2CB6B.E0D415D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Saragrace
There also is me. If there is a lady = who wants=20 something specially made. I can provide.
I do long distance and it is possible. = I have a=20 costumer right now who lives in Denver, Colorado and i made her corset = long=20 distance. I send her a corset i had made after her meassures, and = it only=20 had to be altered very little.
If the client has a camera and she can = take photos=20 of the garb i send, then it is ok.
I am not cheap, but i am not expensive = either. I=20 would love to do something late elizabethan and i can provide with = handmade=20 renaissance lace. I made black linen lace for Drea Leed. And my = embroidery isnt=20 bad either.
But i have orders waiting, and i could = not=20 make anything till some months later.
 
 
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk
=
 
http://home0.inet.tele.dk/dr= ewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Saragrace Knauf
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 = 5:39=20 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Commercial = providers of=20 generic RenFair Garb?

I would be interested in = the=20 groups suggestions for providers of generic renfaire=20 garb for approximately the late 16th century=20 =91England=92.  One of the groups I work = with has=20 recently obtained a contract with a local Ren Faire=20 (Arizona Renaissance Festival).  We have several new members = who have=20 little interest in sewing and need decent garb.  The Faire is far from = rigorous, but we=20 would like to encourage, if not accuracy, well made garb.  

 

Do you all have some=20 suggestions?  I have = already=20 pointed them to some items on the Historic Enterprises web site.  Are there others you would=20 recommend?

 

Sg

 

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2CB6B.E0D415D0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 04:39:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06553 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 04:39:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h139c3tv026469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 02:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h139c1pB022901; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 02:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h139bApB022768 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 02:37:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h139aNp09540.; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:36:23 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:36:04 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] american colonial dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h139bApB022768 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:35:33 +0000 Status: RO I'm one of the few list members who specialise in the mid-17th century, though in Britain, not the Colonies. Here is a site on women's costume from a member of our reenactment society: http://www.vincents.demon.co.uk/stays/index.htm This one has lots of links to illustrations: http://www.costumes.org/pages/timelinepages/1630to1665a.htm Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 05:16:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06668 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 05:16:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13AF5tv027673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13AF2pB010413; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from cumulus.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13AEopC009540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 03:14:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-372.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.247.118]) by cumulus.netspace.net.au (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h13AEh26003102 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:14:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: titanic dress Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:20:15 +1100 Status: RO They only made one? It must have been a cheaper production than I remember, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 06:46:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06949 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 06:46:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Bj4tv000373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 04:45:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Bj1pB014558; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 04:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from einsteinium.btinternet.com (einsteinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Bi6pC014284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 04:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from host217-39-10-169.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.39.10.169] helo=dan) by einsteinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18ff1B-00042j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:44:05 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c2cb7a$d825cdc0$a90a27d9@dan> From: "Stevie Gamble" To: References: <000501c2cb3e$4f84a860$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <200302030057.14283.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:53:18 -0000 Status: RO Cathy mentioned, as a commercial provider of generic RenFair Garb, > For example, Chivalry Sports: > > www.renstore.com > snip commentary It has some items at big reductions at the moment, so Saragrace's new members may be able to garb relatively cheaply. I've not come across the site before, so it may have 'sales' almost permanently:-) best wishes Stevie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 07:45:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07358 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:45:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ci6tv002073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 05:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ci1pB026225; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 05:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13ChApC026034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 05:43:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h13CY6I3021222 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:34:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h13CY5KL021220 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:34:06 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <000501c2cb3e$4f84a860$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <200302030057.14283.cathy@thyrsus.com> <001c01c2cb7a$d825cdc0$a90a27d9@dan> In-Reply-To: <001c01c2cb7a$d825cdc0$a90a27d9@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302030734.05632.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h13ChApC026034 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:34:05 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 03 February 2003 06:53 am, Stevie Gamble wrote: > Cathy mentioned, as a commercial provider of generic RenFair Garb, > > > For example, Chivalry Sports: > > > > www.renstore.com > > snip commentary > > It has some items at big reductions at the moment, so Saragrace's new > members may be able to garb relatively cheaply. I've not come across > the site before, so it may have 'sales' almost permanently:-) Sort of. They have periodic "theme" sales, and usually have a section of items they're selling at a reduced price in order to unload stock. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 08:50:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07691 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:50:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Dn2tv004593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 06:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Dn0pB011758; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 06:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13DmqpB011706 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 06:48:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m119.in-tch.com [216.166.191.119]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h13DW3r08327 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 06:32:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E3E7372.301D32EF@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? References: <000501c2cb3e$4f84a860$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 06:49:38 -0700 Status: RO Have them check out the stuff at Estrella in a couple of weeks? Chiv Sports, for one, is usually there. This, of course, would only be helpful if they're in the Phoenix/Goodyear area..... --sue (going back in lurk mode) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 09:44:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08051 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:44:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ee2tv006948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ee1pB026177; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:40:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13EdupB026158 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:39:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ap-025scfairp0414.dialsprint.net ([63.183.121.160] helo=faucet.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18fhlL-00000l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 06:39:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3E3E8C76.44520B58@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] ruff starching update Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:36:21 -0600 Status: RO Greetings, the List! I have been off-list for a while (since Christmas), trying to catch up on the accumulated mail, so I don't know what you all have been discussing, but here's a little something out of the blue. I have updated my how-to-starch-a-ruff page to reflect the new ruff I've made (this one attached to a shirt) and the new techniques I tried (or was forced to develop!). You can see just the update at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff5.html Or you can look at the whole How to Starch a Ruff sequence (with the update at the end) starting at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html Cheers, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 09:47:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08078 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:47:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ej7tv007186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:45:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ej3pB027739; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13EiEpB027472 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:44:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [167.142.14.116] (HELO herselftifhj9g) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 260441280 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 08:44:13 -0600 Message-ID: <0a2201c2cb92$b8bb1f90$d30c8ea7@herselftifhj9g> From: "Land of Oz" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] american colonial dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:44:13 -0600 Status: RO I'd like to thank everyone for the public and private replies in this thread. I am trying to get a brief overview of generalities in a very short time. I admire those of you with extensive knowledge in these fields! What a lot of work you put into it. I am following the web site links, and often finding more links branching off of those, so I am getting a sense of what would have been worn in these times. Thank you all very much Denise landofoz@netins.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 10:04:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08202 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:04:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13F33tv008310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:03:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13F32pB003929; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13F2HpB003660 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:02:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18fi6z-00051v-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 07:02:17 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? Message-ID: <000f01c2cb95$4867c100$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <200302030057.14283.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:02:34 -0700 Status: RO Thanks for the pointers-I had not heard of a few of these. Sg >Elizabethan Arts: >www.elizabethanarts.safeshopper.com >Round Two Costumes: >www.roundtwocostumes.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 10:08:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08227 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:08:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13F71tv008503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13F71pB005295; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13F6vpB005266 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:06:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18fiBT-0003Tb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 07:06:56 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb?-Bjarne Message-ID: <001001c2cb95$eea01770$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2CB5B.42413F70" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <001501c2cb63$7f598810$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:07:12 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2CB5B.42413F70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bjarne, I will gladly point them in your direction. You are so modest about your talent! As with many Ren Faire folk over here, there isn't a lot of money available. But I didn't realize you did smaller orders of embroidery and lace-so you can be expecting an order from me in the future! Don't worry, I am never in a hurry for my own stuff-I sometimes take years to finish some things! If you ever find someone in the Phoenix area interested in underpinnings, gowns, etc and need someone to help with fittings feel free to contact me. I would gladly do them for you gratis. Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 2:06 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? Dear Saragrace There also is me. If there is a lady who wants something specially made. I can provide. I do long distance and it is possible. I have a costumer right now who lives in Denver, Colorado and i made her corset long distance. I send her a corset i had made after her meassures, and it only had to be altered very little. If the client has a camera and she can take photos of the garb i send, then it is ok. I am not cheap, but i am not expensive either. I would love to do something late elizabethan and i can provide with handmade renaissance lace. I made black linen lace for Drea Leed. And my embroidery isnt bad either. But i have orders waiting, and i could not make anything till some months later. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Saragrace Knauf To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 5:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? I would be interested in the groups suggestions for providers of generic renfaire garb for approximately the late 16th century 'England'. One of the groups I work with has recently obtained a contract with a local Ren Faire (Arizona Renaissance Festival). We have several new members who have little interest in sewing and need decent garb. The Faire is far from rigorous, but we would like to encourage, if not accuracy, well made garb. Do you all have some suggestions? I have already pointed them to some items on the Historic Enterprises web site. Are there others you would recommend? Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2CB5B.42413F70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bjarne, I will gladly point them in = your direction.  You are so = modest about your talent!    As with many Ren Faire = folk over here, there isn’t a lot of money = available.

But I didn’t realize you did = smaller orders of embroidery and lace-so you can be expecting an order from me = in the future!  Don’t worry, I am never = in a hurry for my own stuff-I sometimes take years to finish some things!  If you ever find someone in the = Phoenix area interested in underpinnings, gowns, etc and need = someone to help with fittings feel free to contact me.  I would gladly do them for you = gratis.

 

Sg

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
Sent: = Monday, February 03, = 2003 2:06 AM
To: = h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] = Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb?

 

Dear Saragrace

There also is me. If there is a lady who wants = something specially made. I can provide.

I do long distance and it is possible. I have a = costumer right now who lives in Denver, = Colorado and i made her corset long distance. I send her a corset i had made after her meassures, and it only had to be altered very = little.

If the client has a camera and she can take photos of = the garb i send, then it is ok.

I am not cheap, but i am not expensive either. I = would love to do something late elizabethan and i can provide with handmade renaissance lace. I made black linen lace for Drea Leed. And my = embroidery isnt bad either.

But i have orders waiting, and i could not make anything till some months later.

 

 

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk<= /o:p>

 

----- Original Message ----- =

Sent: = Monday, February 03, = 2003 5:39 AM

Subject: = [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair = Garb?

 

I would be interested in the groups suggestions for providers of generic renfaire garb for approximately the late = 16th century ‘England’.  One of the groups I work with = has recently obtained a contract with a local Ren Faire (Arizona Renaissance = Festival).  We have several new members who = have little interest in sewing and need decent garb.  The Faire is far from rigorous, = but we would like to encourage, if not accuracy, well made garb. 

 

Do you all have some suggestions?  I have already pointed them to = some items on the Historic Enterprises web site.  Are there others you would = recommend?

 

Sg

 

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2CB5B.42413F70-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 10:56:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08548 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:56:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Fs5tv012282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Fs0hc027911; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:54:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@jost.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13FrMhc027517 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:53:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04874 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:06:26 -0600 From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: Re: [h-cost] archives Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:06:26 -0600 (CST) Status: RO I checked with Eric, who keeps up the h-cost archives, and he wrote: > I've put up all of 2002 - now I just have to index them. > I've also added Jan of 2003. > Thanks for reminding me. Once again, that URL is: > http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives/ --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 11:39:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08918 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:39:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Gc6tv017581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Gc1WG023245; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx16.cluster1.charter.net (dc-mx16.cluster0.charter.net [209.225.8.26] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Gb8WG022664 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.188.127.221] (HELO laptop) by mx16.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 31048036 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:21:53 -0500 Message-ID: <006001c2cba0$36f49640$dd7fbc42@mad.chartermi.net> From: To: References: <000501c2cb3e$4f84a860$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <200302030057.14283.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:20:48 -0600 Status: RO > > Do you all have some suggestions? I have already pointed them to some > > items on the Historic Enterprises web site. Are there others you would > > recommend? > Felix Needleworthy has some very nicely made stuff and a fairly good range of prices. He sells at the Minnesota and Bristol Renn Faires. http://www.needleworthy.com/ ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, BRF FOF A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 11:52:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09061 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:52:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Go4tv018832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:50:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Go1WG029853; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Gn1WG029281 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.149.9598b07 (15876) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:48:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m23.webmail.aol.com [64.12.180.139]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v90_r2.5) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-0203114842; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:48:42 -0500 From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb?-Bjarne MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7BC4D27F.24C723FD.0B5D5234@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by net.indra.com id h13Gn1WG029281 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:48:42 -0500 Status: RO When I went to the NY Renaissance Faire (HUGE Faire!), I didn't know how to sew yet, so I purchased a costume. I bought mine from "Heart's Desire", which has a website, though I don't seem to be able to locate it at the moment. They're located in California, though. My entire outfit- long-sleeve, short (about thigh-length) chemise, BIG full-circle skirt, and bodice, was about $165 including tax. The bodice was the most expensive at $75. All of their skirts, shirts, pants (they sell men's stuff too), and chemises are of 100% natural material: cotton or linen as far as I can tell. The bodices range from completely period to partially period, like mine (mine has a lovely blue and white feather pattern with silver around the feathers), to "Out there". All of the bodices are reversible; my "reverse" of the bodice is accurate. I know that I sound like an advertisement for them, but they had lovely service and didn't push me into anything, and their prices were, I thought, ! reasonable considering the work that went into everything. Warning, though, with any non-custom items: If you're short like me (5'3" and below, I'd think), you may have to hem the skirt a tad. I had a train, before I did! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 13:06:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09713 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:06:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13I3Gtv027066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13I3CWG014929; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:03:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13I2YWG014445 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.196.15178f74 (15864) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:02:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d15.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.131]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v90_r2.5) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-0203130219; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:02:19 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <267EB1D5.3B50F2D2.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Men's Victorian Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:02:19 -0500 Status: RO Greetings All! I am trying to get a list of Men's Victorian patterns that people have used. I have a friend who has been helping me pick some stuff out, but am looking for a wider range of knowledge. So, I am looking for any and all suggestions, good and bad. Which do you recommend to people and which do you warn people away from. I am looking forward to the input! Thanks in advance, Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 13:12:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09736 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:12:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13I8Ctv027601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13I8CWG018038; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net (scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13I76WG017442 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net ([10.116.0.124]) by scanmail4.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:06:09 -0700 Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124] by scanmail4.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id AF87B0830146; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:06:08 -0700 Received: from kimathlon (24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:06:08 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Men's Victorian Patterns Message-ID: <000401c2cbaf$266035f0$0201a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <267EB1D5.3B50F2D2.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-SMTP-HELO: kimathlon X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kbaird@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-186-130.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.186.130] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:07:43 -0600 Status: RO I highly recommend Laughing Moon patterns for men. Kim Baird -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kitsune242@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 12:02 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Men's Victorian Patterns Greetings All! I am trying to get a list of Men's Victorian patterns that people have used. I have a friend who has been helping me pick some stuff out, but am looking for a wider range of knowledge. So, I am looking for any and all suggestions, good and bad. Which do you recommend to people and which do you warn people away from. I am looking forward to the input! Thanks in advance, Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 13:17:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09809 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:17:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13IFHtv028311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13IFBWG022189; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:15:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13IExWH022047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:15:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-100-215.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.100.215]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h13IEwD8006215 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:14:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Heather Meadows To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <659F6299-37A3-11D7-8462-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: [h-cost] pom pom fringe Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:14:55 -0800 Status: RO I'm looking for sites that sell pom pom fringe - preferably in rather bright colors! - for a classmate that is making a rather unusual Victorian dress. thanks for any leads! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 13:36:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10158 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:36:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13IZGtv000538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13IZE2h002077; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:35:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13IY32h001195 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 7.179.159673d4 (15877) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d13.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.129]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v90_r2.5) with ESMTP id MAILINID74-0203133222; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:32:22 -0500 From: FyneHats2@aol.com To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2DBC22AD.6B859B93.0251717C@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1776 - 9 msgs Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:32:22 -0500 Status: RO On Sunday 02 February 2003 11:39 pm, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > I would be interested in the groups suggestions for providers of generic > renfaire garb for approximately the late 16th century 'England'. One of > the groups I work with has recently obtained a contract with a local Ren > Faire (Arizona Renaissance Festival). We have several new members who > have little interest in sewing and need decent garb. The Faire is far > from rigorous, but we would like to encourage, if not accuracy, well > made garb. > > Do you all have some suggestions? I have already pointed them to some > items on the Historic Enterprises web site. Are there others you would > recommend? One faire merchant I had bought from for years is "Hearts Delight". They do well made, reasonably priced faire garb (blouses, shirts, skirts, pants, bodices, jerkins,bloomers) and in childrens sizes too. I still have skirts I have used for the past 13 years at the Southern Renaissance Pleasure Faire in San Bernadino. They often have a booth at many of the larger faires, but they also have a website www.heartsdelightclothier.com. They sell cotton gauze skirts and blouses which can feel great in the 90+ degrees it often becomes in California in May! Hope this helps. P.S. If you need hats try my site - www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com. I have served faire participants from coast to coast. Donna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 13:53:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10251 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:53:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13InItv002010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:49:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13InD2h010385; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ims2h010226 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:48:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h13ImrN21725 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:48:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203101225.03395738@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie In-Reply-To: <267EB1D5.3B50F2D2.0BD9917F@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_10410796==.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] re: Men's Victorian Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 10:49:11 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_10410796==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Ditto, sort of... I've distilled my list of men's "OK" patterns down to Laughing Moon's California Pants and Pattern's of History's 1878 Sack Coat Suit. I'm debating whether to build some patterns from scratch for shirts or just use either Laughing Moon's or Past Pattern's Men's Victorian Shirts pattern for speed. Decent reproduction vests are easy to come by and cheap and saves me from bound welt pocket hell ( I do not like them in a train, I do not like them in a plane....). I've seen a few patterns for double breasted 1860's frock coats but don't know which to go with. Any suggestions or advice on the above? Now the tricky part: A close friend is working on building a daguerreotype or tintype camera - which we go with is under debate and depends on if I can carve the mould to replicate the old gutta percha type union cases. He's asked me to make him a suit to wear once he's out in the world taking pictures. I've always wanted to make a 1836-ish frock coat and have yet to find a pattern. I immediately put the Old World Enterprises pattern out of my mind since I've heard nothing good about their line. Unfortunately, they seem to be the only company who makes a pattern for this time period. Everyone else seems to have acceptable coat patterns up to 1820 then they jump to 1850-1860. These all are missing the full skirts, the back vents, pleats, and pockets, and the distinctive M collar. I have the Davies book, the Sutter's Fort Manual (cudoos to Mr. Rickman if he's still lurking here), and schload of books on modern men's suit patterning and construction. Is there a pattern available or am I going to have to invent the wheel again? I'm hoping to have this done, as well as all my own sewing done by Costume College. At 01:02 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings All! > >I am trying to get a list of Men's Victorian patterns that people have >used. I have a friend who has been helping me pick some stuff out, but am >looking for a wider range of knowledge. So, I am looking for any and all >suggestions, good and bad. Which do you recommend to people and which do >you warn people away from. > >I am looking forward to the input! > >Thanks in advance, >Kit Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_10410796==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Ditto, sort of...

I've distilled my list of men's "OK" patterns down to Laughing Moon's California Pants and Pattern's of History's 1878 Sack Coat Suit. I'm debating whether to build some patterns from scratch for shirts or just use either Laughing Moon's or Past Pattern's Men's Victorian Shirts pattern for speed.  Decent reproduction vests are easy to come by and cheap and saves me from bound welt pocket hell ( I do not like them in a train, I do not like them in a plane....). I've seen a few patterns for double breasted 1860's frock coats but don't know which to go with. Any suggestions or advice on the above?

Now the tricky part:
A close friend is working on building a daguerreotype or tintype camera -  which we go with is under debate and depends on if I can carve the mould to replicate the old gutta percha type union cases. He's asked me to make him a suit to wear once he's out in the world taking pictures. I've always wanted to make a 1836-ish frock coat and have yet to find a pattern. I immediately put the Old World Enterprises pattern out of my mind since I've heard nothing good about their line. Unfortunately, they seem to be the only company who makes a pattern for this time period. Everyone else seems to have acceptable coat patterns up to 1820 then they jump to 1850-1860. These all are missing the full skirts, the back vents, pleats, and pockets, and the distinctive M collar.

I have the Davies book, the Sutter's Fort Manual (cudoos to Mr. Rickman if he's still lurking here), and schload of books on modern men's suit patterning and construction. Is there a pattern available or am I going to have to invent the wheel again? I'm hoping to have this done, as well as all my own sewing done by Costume College.

At 01:02 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
Greetings All!

I am trying to get a list of Men's Victorian patterns that people have used.  I have a friend who has been helping me pick some stuff out, but am looking for a wider range of knowledge.  So, I am looking for any and all suggestions, good and bad.  Which do you recommend to people and which do you warn people away from.

I am looking forward to the input!

Thanks in advance,
Kit

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_10410796==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 16:51:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11387 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:50:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13LnWtv019986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:49:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13LnO2h026800; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:49:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13LmG2h026007 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:48:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p212.directcon.net [209.233.107.212]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h13Lm5Gu012492; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:48:07 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030203135148.00e326f0@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb?-Bjarne In-Reply-To: <7BC4D27F.24C723FD.0B5D5234@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:51:48 -0800 Status: RO At 11:48 AM 02/03/2003 -0500, IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: >When I went to the NY Renaissance Faire (HUGE Faire!), I didn't know how to sew yet, so I purchased a costume. I bought mine from "Heart's Desire", which has a website, though I don't seem to be able to locate it at the moment. I believe you're thinking of "Heart's Delight". Margo "One Tough Costumer" The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping! See it at http//:www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 16:58:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11442 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:58:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ltctv020674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:55:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13LtY2h000804; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:55:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Lsr2h000317 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:54:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18foYG-00039S-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:54:52 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] pom pom fringe Message-ID: <000101c2cbce$eccbdcc0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <659F6299-37A3-11D7-8462-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:55:07 -0700 Status: RO http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/fabric-home-decorating-trims--tas sels---fringe.html These guys have some great colors. Also, the neutral colors dye up very well. Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Heather Meadows Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 11:15 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] pom pom fringe I'm looking for sites that sell pom pom fringe - preferably in rather bright colors! - for a classmate that is making a rather unusual Victorian dress. thanks for any leads! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 16:58:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11453 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:58:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13LvZtv020862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13LvZ2h001888; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Lun2h001445 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:56:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r13p212.directcon.net [209.233.107.212]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h13LuGGu014501; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:56:17 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030203140000.00843420@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Men's Victorian Patterns In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203101225.03395738@blue.ucdavis.edu> References: <267EB1D5.3B50F2D2.0BD9917F@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:00:00 -0800 Status: RO : > which we go with is under debate and depends on if I can carve the mould >to replicate the old gutta percha type union cases. Off topic here, but I believe there are companies making reprduction cases. Another option would be to use silicone mold making material to make a cast of an original case. Originals aren't too hard to come by. Margo "One Tough Costumer" The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping! See it at http//:www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 17:19:54 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11768 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:19:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13MHltv023111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:17:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13MHj2h013367; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:17:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13MFq2h012284 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:15:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h13MFpN25560 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:15:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203140954.0338b360@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Men's Victorian Patterns In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030203140000.00843420@pop.directcon.net> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203101225.03395738@blue.ucdavis.edu> <267EB1D5.3B50F2D2.0BD9917F@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_22829625==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:16:14 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_22829625==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I've been looking for reproduction cases and haven't seen any. I can find some original cases but they usually house something like an Ambrotype that I'd hate to destroy. The ones I can afford aren't in the best shape and the ones I can afford which are in good condition I don't want to use - such is the collector / curator dilema >; ) If someone on this list does know of someone making reproduction cases in 1/2 to 1/9 size, could you please send me a note? Danke At 02:00 PM 2/3/2003 -0800, you wrote: >: > > which we go with is under debate and depends on if I can carve the mould > >to replicate the old gutta percha type union cases. > >Off topic here, but I believe there are companies making reprduction cases. > Another option would be to use silicone mold making material to make a >cast of an original case. Originals aren't too hard to come by. > >Margo >"One Tough Costumer" Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_22829625==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I've been looking for reproduction cases and haven't seen any. I can find some original cases but they usually house something like an Ambrotype that I'd hate to destroy. The ones I can afford aren't in the best shape and the ones I can afford which are in good condition I don't want to use - such is the collector / curator dilema >; )

If someone on this list does know of someone making reproduction cases in 1/2 to 1/9 size, could you please send me a note?

Danke

At 02:00 PM 2/3/2003 -0800, you wrote:

:
>  which we go with is under debate and depends on if I can carve the mould
>to replicate the old gutta percha type union cases.

Off topic here, but I believe there are companies making reprduction cases.
 Another option would be to use silicone mold making material to make a
cast of an original case.  Originals aren't too hard to come by.

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_22829625==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 17:22:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11923 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:22:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13MKktv023406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:20:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13MKi2h015062; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13MJh2h014404 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-104.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.104]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id h13MJfu02060 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:19:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c2cbd2$4bd1b340$6807d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <20030203190008.16574.53571.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Men's Victorian Patterns Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:18:16 -0500 Status: RO Whenever clients ask me this question I rank men's Victorian patterns thusly: 1. Laughing Moon 2. The Mantua Maker 3. Past Patterns 4. Buckaroo Bobbins 5. Period Impressions 6. Old World Enterprises 7. Patterns of History (Wisconsin State Historical Society) My criteria is based upon: 1. Historical Accuracy 2. Quality of Engineering and Sewing Instructions 3. Size Range 4. Added Features/Variations 5. Price The first three in my list in my opinion you can't go wrong with. The fourth, Buckaroo Bobbins, is a really good line of patterns; sometimes, however, the historical accuracy is not quite there, but certainly is very close. The latter three are all historically accurate, but the engineering, size range and sewing instructions often leave a bit to be desired. For the experienced seamstress/tailor there often is no problem; but for a novice these patterns can be a quick recipe for valium. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 17:42:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12328 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:42:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Mf4tv025372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Mf12h025945; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx3.pacifier.net (mx3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Mdx2h025359 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:39:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2 [64.255.237.172]) by mx3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE8106A684 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:39:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from susan (ip157.usw19.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C0216A42A for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:39:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00eb01c2cbd5$5bf80a50$9debcacf@susan> From: "Susan" To: References: <20030203190008.16574.53571.Mailman@net.indra.com> <001301c2cbd2$4bd1b340$6807d1d8@d7k7b6> Subject: Re: [h-cost] la fleur de lyse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:41:12 -0800 Status: RO Hi, Has anyone used any of the La Fleur de Lyse patterns? I found them looking around the 5 rivers site and they look good, but was wondering how they sewed up. I've become interested in making some norman (around 1000s to 1200s) outfits to wear to events. I've got an exchange of stuff for work going on with a local trim merchant and now I have some wonderful trims I want to use. Susan in Bellevue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 17:59:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12465 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:59:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13MvEtv027213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:57:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Mv62h004451; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:57:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13MtA2h003322 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:55:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h13Mt9N19112 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:55:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203145458.03421300@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] pom pom fringe In-Reply-To: <659F6299-37A3-11D7-8462-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_25187781==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:55:32 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_25187781==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Original or reproduction fringe? At 10:14 AM 2/3/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I'm looking for sites that sell pom pom fringe - preferably >in rather bright colors! - for a classmate that is making a >rather unusual Victorian dress. > >thanks for any leads! Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_25187781==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Original or reproduction fringe?

At 10:14 AM 2/3/2003 -0800, you wrote:

I'm looking for sites that sell pom pom fringe - preferably
in rather bright colors! - for a classmate that is making a
rather unusual Victorian dress.

thanks for any leads!

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_25187781==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 18:10:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12560 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:10:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13N45tv027991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13N412h008769; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13N3f2h008481 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:03:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail010.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h13N3Zb13395 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:03:35 +1100 Message-ID: <014301c2cbd8$b53fffc0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203101225.03395738@blue.ucdavis.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Men's Victorian Patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:05:12 +1100 Status: RO > I have the Davies book, the Sutter's Fort Manual (cudoos to Mr. Rickman if I have a book entitled "Men's Garments 1830-1900" which has instructions to draft the patterns yourself. It has a pattern for an 1830 frock coat, and has illustrations of an 1836, and 1835-1840 to show collar variations etc. If you have an idea on pattern drafting you could probably work out the collar variations. I don't know how good it is as I haven't used it yet, but it might be worth looking into if you can't find a pattern. Karen ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 18:15:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12585 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:15:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13NE3tv029031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13NE12h014477; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f11.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13NDX2h014033 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:13:15 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:13:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] pom pom fringe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2003 23:13:15.0738 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4BE53A0:01C2CBD9] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 15:13:15 -0800 Status: RO Try at http://www.cheaptrims.com . They often have things for much less than the stores and some of the oddest colors. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! >>I'm looking for sites that sell pom pom fringe - preferably >>in rather bright colors! - for a classmate that is making a >>rather unusual Victorian dress. >> _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 18:43:42 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12729 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:43:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ng2tv002688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Ng0C5000300; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13NfUC5029830 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:41:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h13NfUN16646 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:41:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203153916.0338b360@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_27967812==.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] 1830's frock coat (was Re: Men's Victorian Patterns) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 15:41:50 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_27967812==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed That would be Nora Waugh's book which is good. I could easily draft it, I'm just being lazy I suppose. BTW, after some digging I came across the Tailor's Guide patterns which has a 1830's men's single breasted frock coat pattern. The ill. shows the correct back vents and pockets though it's missing the fullness in the skirt and the M collar which can be added easily. I don't know if specifies the correct padding for the 1830's. Has anyone worked with this pattern or this company for that matter? I love cruising through Bjane's and Kendra's project pages (thanks for the break down on the 1830-1840 crinoline Kendra). Maybe I'll try to put one together for this project. At 10:05 AM 2/4/2003 +1100, you wrote: > > I have the Davies book, the Sutter's Fort Manual (cudoos to Mr. Rickman if >I have a book entitled "Men's Garments 1830-1900" which has instructions to >draft the patterns yourself. It has a pattern for an 1830 frock coat, and >has illustrations of an 1836, and 1835-1840 to show collar variations etc. >If you have an idea on pattern drafting you could probably work out the >collar variations. I don't know how good it is as I haven't used it yet, >but it might be worth looking into if you can't find a pattern. > >Karen Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_27967812==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" That would be Nora Waugh's book which is good. I could easily draft it, I'm just being lazy I suppose.

BTW, after some digging I came across the Tailor's Guide patterns which has a 1830's men's single breasted frock coat pattern. The ill. shows the correct back vents and pockets though it's missing the fullness in the skirt and the M collar which can be added easily. I don't know if specifies the correct padding for the 1830's. Has anyone worked with this pattern or this company for that matter?

I love cruising through Bjane's and Kendra's  project pages (thanks for the break down on the 1830-1840 crinoline Kendra). Maybe I'll try to put one together for this project.

At 10:05 AM 2/4/2003 +1100, you wrote:

> I have the Davies book, the Sutter's Fort Manual (cudoos to Mr. Rickman if
I have a book entitled "Men's Garments 1830-1900" which has instructions to
draft the patterns yourself.  It has a pattern for an 1830 frock coat, and
has illustrations of an 1836, and 1835-1840 to show collar variations etc.
If you have an idea on pattern drafting you could probably work out the
collar variations.  I don't know how good it is as I haven't used it yet,
but it might be worth looking into if you can't find a pattern.

Karen

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_27967812==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 18:50:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12759 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:50:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13NnFtv003847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:49:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13NnEC5004675; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13NmBC5004017 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from valadan (c17417.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.162.24]) by mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id h13Nm6H07176 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:48:07 +1100 Message-ID: <002201c2cbde$edaa89b0$18a231d2@valadan> From: "Karen Root" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203153916.0338b360@blue.ucdavis.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830's frock coat (was Re: Men's Victorian Patterns) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:49:43 +1100 Status: RO > That would be Nora Waugh's book which is good. I could easily draft it, I'm > just being lazy I suppose. The "Men's Garments" book I have is by an R.I. Davis from memory. K ----- www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 18:56:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12770 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:56:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Nt3tv005147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13Nt1C5008319; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h13NsXC5008033 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h13NsWN24660 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:54:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203154214.03421300@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Men's Victorian Patterns In-Reply-To: <001301c2cbd2$4bd1b340$6807d1d8@d7k7b6> References: <20030203190008.16574.53571.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_28750421==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 15:54:54 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_28750421==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Interesting. Thanks for the speedy reply. I hadn't thought of Mantua Maker. I thought they were strickly women's patterns. At 05:18 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Whenever clients ask me this question I rank men's Victorian patterns >thusly: >1. Laughing Moon >2. The Mantua Maker >3. Past Patterns >4. Buckaroo Bobbins >5. Period Impressions >6. Old World Enterprises >7. Patterns of History (Wisconsin State Historical Society) > >My criteria is based upon: >1. Historical Accuracy >2. Quality of Engineering and Sewing Instructions >3. Size Range >4. Added Features/Variations >5. Price > > The first three in my list in my opinion you can't go wrong with. The >fourth, Buckaroo Bobbins, is a really good line of patterns; sometimes, >however, the historical accuracy is not quite there, but certainly is very >close. The latter three are all historically accurate, but the engineering, >size range and sewing instructions often leave a bit to be desired. For the >experienced seamstress/tailor there often is no problem; but for a novice >these patterns can be a quick recipe for valium. > >Regards >Lorina Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_28750421==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Interesting. Thanks for the speedy reply.
I hadn't thought of Mantua Maker. I thought they were strickly women's patterns.

At 05:18 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:

Whenever clients ask me this question I rank men's Victorian patterns
thusly:
1. Laughing Moon
2. The Mantua Maker
3. Past Patterns
4. Buckaroo Bobbins
5. Period Impressions
6. Old World Enterprises
7. Patterns of History (Wisconsin State Historical Society)

My criteria is based upon:
1. Historical Accuracy
2. Quality of Engineering and Sewing Instructions
3. Size Range
4. Added Features/Variations
5. Price

 The first three in my list in my opinion you can't go wrong with. The
fourth, Buckaroo Bobbins, is a really good line of patterns; sometimes,
however, the historical accuracy is not quite there, but certainly is very
close. The latter three are all historically accurate, but the engineering,
size range and sewing instructions often leave a bit to be desired. For the
experienced seamstress/tailor there often is no problem; but for a novice
these patterns can be a quick recipe for valium.

Regards
Lorina

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_28750421==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 19:06:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12801 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:06:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14053tv006822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14051C5014533; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1404rC5014421 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.18c.15a141a3 (17526) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:04:39 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <18c.15a141a3.2b705d96@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830's frock coat (was Re: Men's Victorian Patterns) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_18c.15a141a3.2b705d96_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:04:38 EST Status: RO --part1_18c.15a141a3.2b705d96_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/3/2003 6:42:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gacarnegie@ucdavis.edu writes: > I don't know if specifies the correct padding for the 1830's. The two real 1830s coats I've seen [one was unpicked and used in the stuffing of an 1840's sofa!!!!] there was no padding at all, though there was interfacing down the fronts. Some waistcoats, however, will have some padding on the chest. Shoulders remain narrow and unpadded. --part1_18c.15a141a3.2b705d96_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/3/2003 6:42:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gacarnegie@ucdavis.edu writes:


I don't know if specifies the correct padding for the 1830's.


The two real 1830s coats I've seen [one was unpicked and used in the stuffing of an 1840's sofa!!!!] there was no padding at all, though there was interfacing down the fronts. Some waistcoats, however, will have some padding on the chest. Shoulders remain narrow and unpadded. --part1_18c.15a141a3.2b705d96_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 19:22:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12878 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:22:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140LVtv008886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:21:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140LTC5023314; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:21:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140KuC5022979 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h140KuN09741 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:20:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203161420.033a23c8@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830's frock coat (was Re: Men's Victorian Patterns) In-Reply-To: <18c.15a141a3.2b705d96@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_30333750==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:21:13 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_30333750==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed That was my next question. I knew about the vest and wondered if the process was carried to the coat itself since you don't pad the shoulders. Somehow I knew you'd know this. At 07:04 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/3/2003 6:42:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, >gacarnegie@ucdavis.edu writes: > >>I don't know if specifies the correct padding for the 1830's. > >The two real 1830s coats I've seen [one was unpicked and used in the >stuffing of an 1840's sofa!!!!] there was no padding at all, though there >was interfacing down the fronts. Some waistcoats, however, will have some >padding on the chest. Shoulders remain narrow and unpadded. Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_30333750==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
That was my next question. I knew about the vest and wondered if the process was carried to the coat itself since you don't pad the shoulders. Somehow I knew you'd know this.

At 07:04 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
In a message dated 2/3/2003 6:42:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gacarnegie@ucdavis.edu writes:

I don't know if specifies the correct padding for the 1830's.

The two real 1830s coats I've seen [one was unpicked and used in the stuffing of an 1840's sofa!!!!] there was no padding at all, though there was interfacing down the fronts. Some waistcoats, however, will have some padding on the chest. Shoulders remain narrow and unpadded.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_30333750==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 19:26:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12885 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:26:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140O2tv009266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140O1C5024708; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140NhC5024541 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:23:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-05.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.5]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id h140Nfn01637; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:23:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01c2cbe3$9de8f560$0507d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: Cc: References: <20030203235500.8309.8624.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Mantua Maker (was Men's Victorian Patterns) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:18:20 -0500 Status: RO Dear Gwyn, Oops! Sorry about that. The Mantua Maker patterns are indeed all women's patterns, for the nonce. I got a little carried away there. :-) But keep watching this line, as men's patterns are about to become part of the repetoire this year. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 19:29:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12897 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:29:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140SItv009821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:28:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140SHC5027107; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:28:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140RiC5026762 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:27:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-05.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.5]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id h140Rgn02466; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:27:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001101c2cbe4$2d888960$0507d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: Cc: References: <20030203235500.8309.8624.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re:la fleur de lyse Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:27:04 -0500 Status: RO Now, it is agreed you'd expect me to write this because I sell the patterns. But I have been known to tell clients, "Don't buy that pattern, but this one," even when I carry both. Not very smart of me from a business point of view, but I'd rather a satisfied client than a disgruntled one who will tell people, "Don't buy from Five Rivers." So, having said that, La Fleur de Lyse is on my 'best' list. Why? These patterns are incredibly well-researched, well-engineered, with good sewing instructions, offering excellent value and good price. So far I've had nothing but praise from clients who have used the patterns. And I have opened every single one in the line, read the instructions, studied the patterns and/or cutting guides and been impressed. It's not easy to impress me. And in all fairness I have to tell you I have not used these patterns personally. They, also, are on my hit list of things 'to do', but that list seems to be awfully long these days, what with working on the men's Regency waistcoat with Mantua Maker, working up an embroidery sample for a prospective client, trying to complete the Earth, Air, Wind, Fire series of embroideries I've designed, completing my husband's labourer's jacket, let alone making some garment stock for this year. Would be interested to read what other people post about these patterns. Always looking for feedback, good or bad. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 19:56:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13255 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:56:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140t8tv013557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:55:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140t2C5009849; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140sIC5009529 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:54:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.1ab.1073ba44 (4246) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:54:08 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <1ab.1073ba44.2b706930@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb?-Bjarne To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1ab.1073ba44.2b706930_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:54:08 EST Status: RO --part1_1ab.1073ba44.2b706930_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/3/03 4:50:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes: > I believe you're thinking of "Heart's Delight". Yes, I am. Apparently my head needed to be re-tuned. It's still a good resource for non-sewers, I think! Ah well, back to practicing my embroidery. Christine --part1_1ab.1073ba44.2b706930_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/3/03 4:50:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@margospatterns.com writes:

I believe you're thinking of "Heart's Delight".


Yes, I am.  Apparently my head needed to be re-tuned.  It's still a good resource for non-sewers, I think!  Ah well, back to practicing my embroidery.

Christine --part1_1ab.1073ba44.2b706930_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 20:00:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13269 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:00:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140x4tv013799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140x2C5011231; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h140wDC6010971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:58:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h141UFI3022965 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:30:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h141UESn022963 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:30:14 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Commercial providers of generic RenFair Garb?-Bjarne User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <3.0.6.32.20030203135148.00e326f0@pop.directcon.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030203135148.00e326f0@pop.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302032030.14370.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h140wDC6010971 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:30:14 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 03 February 2003 04:51 pm, Margo Anderson wrote: > At 11:48 AM 02/03/2003 -0500, IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > >When I went to the NY Renaissance Faire (HUGE Faire!), I didn't know how > > to sew yet, so I purchased a costume. I bought mine from "Heart's Desire", > which has a website, though I don't seem to be able to locate it at the > moment. > > I believe you're thinking of "Heart's Delight". Thanks, Margo! That enabled me, finally, to locate the website: www.heartsdelightclothier.com -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 20:22:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13359 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:22:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141L2tv015087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141L1C5019430; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141KXC6019244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:20:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h141qUI3023069 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:52:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h141qO8B023067 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:52:24 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Men's Victorian Patterns User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030203190008.16574.53571.Mailman@net.indra.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20030203154214.03421300@blue.ucdavis.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203154214.03421300@blue.ucdavis.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302032052.24096.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h141KXC6019244 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:52:24 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 03 February 2003 06:54 pm, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > Interesting. Thanks for the speedy reply. > I hadn't thought of Mantua Maker. I thought they were strickly women's > patterns. > > At 05:18 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >Whenever clients ask me this question I rank men's Victorian patterns > >thusly: > >1. Laughing Moon > >2. The Mantua Maker > >3. Past Patterns > >4. Buckaroo Bobbins > >5. Period Impressions > >6. Old World Enterprises > >7. Patterns of History (Wisconsin State Historical Society) > > > >My criteria is based upon: > >1. Historical Accuracy > >2. Quality of Engineering and Sewing Instructions > >3. Size Range > >4. Added Features/Variations > >5. Price > > > > The first three in my list in my opinion you can't go wrong with. The > >fourth, Buckaroo Bobbins, is a really good line of patterns; sometimes, > >however, the historical accuracy is not quite there, but certainly is very > >close. The latter three are all historically accurate, but the > > engineering, size range and sewing instructions often leave a bit to be > > desired. For the experienced seamstress/tailor there often is no problem; > > but for a novice these patterns can be a quick recipe for valium. You can say that again. I bought the Old World Enterprises 1830s frock coat pattern last year to make up a frock coat for my husband. It fit--and looked--fine, from the waist up (even given my feeble tailoring skills). But from the waist down it was ghastly--I still have no idea why the skirts hung at the crazy angles that they did. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 20:26:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13391 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:26:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141P2tv015256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141P1C5020759; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141O7C6020437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h141u9I3023091 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:56:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h141u9hT023089 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:56:09 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:la fleur de lyse User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030203235500.8309.8624.Mailman@net.indra.com> <001101c2cbe4$2d888960$0507d1d8@d7k7b6> In-Reply-To: <001101c2cbe4$2d888960$0507d1d8@d7k7b6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302032056.09029.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h141O7C6020437 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:56:09 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 03 February 2003 07:27 pm, Five Rivers wrote: [text cut here] > So, having said that, La Fleur de Lyse is on my 'best' list. Why? These > patterns are incredibly well-researched, well-engineered, with good sewing > instructions, offering excellent value and good price. So far I've had > nothing but praise from clients who have used the patterns. And I have > opened every single one in the line, read the instructions, studied the > patterns and/or cutting guides and been impressed. It's not easy to impress > me. > > And in all fairness I have to tell you I have not used these patterns > personally. They, also, are on my hit list of things 'to do', but that list > seems to be awfully long these days, what with working on the men's Regency > waistcoat with Mantua Maker, working up an embroidery sample for a > prospective client, trying to complete the Earth, Air, Wind, Fire series of > embroideries I've designed, completing my husband's labourer's jacket, let > alone making some garment stock for this year. Interesting. I've never even heard of La Fleur de Lyse, and I've been collecting catalogs, web URLs, etc. on historic patterns and websites for quite a while now. Do the folk responsible for La Fleur de Lyse have a site of their own, or do they sell their patterns solely through third parties? Thanks for your information on them. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 20:28:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13396 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:28:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141R2tv015362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141R1C5021457; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141QiC6021339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:26:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h141wkI3023167 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:58:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h141wkaD023165 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:58:46 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Mantua Maker (was Men's Victorian Patterns) User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030203235500.8309.8624.Mailman@net.indra.com> <000a01c2cbe3$9de8f560$0507d1d8@d7k7b6> In-Reply-To: <000a01c2cbe3$9de8f560$0507d1d8@d7k7b6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302032058.46019.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h141QiC6021339 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:58:46 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 03 February 2003 07:18 pm, Five Rivers wrote: > Dear Gwyn, > > Oops! Sorry about that. The Mantua Maker patterns are indeed all > women's patterns, for the nonce. I got a little carried away there. :-) > > But keep watching this line, as men's patterns are about to become part > of the repetoire this year. Lorina: I just looked at your web site, and I have seen the La Fleur de Lyse line carried elsewhere. I'll have to look into them. Thanks again. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 20:50:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13478 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:50:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141n2tv016702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h141n1C5029476; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web80109.mail.yahoo.com (web80109.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h141m7C5029182 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:48:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030204014807.9268.qmail@web80109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.199.42.4] by web80109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:48:07 PST From: Jacobson Dawn To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030203235500.8309.8624.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tintype cases (was "Victorian Mens' Patterns") Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:48:07 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Hi all-- > I've been looking for reproduction cases and haven't > seen any. I can find > some original cases but they usually house something > like an Ambrotype that > I'd hate to destroy. The ones I can afford aren't in > the best shape and the > ones I can afford which are in good condition I > don't want to use - such is > the collector / curator dilema >; ) > > If someone on this list does know of someone making > reproduction cases in > 1/2 to 1/9 size, could you please send me a note? > > Danke > I asked Stephen (my DH), and he says there's somebody making darn near perfect reproduction tin/ambrotype cases; unfortunately, he didn't remember the manufacturer's name, but suggested that you contact William Dunniway, the historical photographer. Bill has the information you're looking for. Dawn Jacobson P.S. I'm baaaaaaack! 8-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 21:10:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13627 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:10:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14292tv017925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14290C5006435; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14287C5006146 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:08:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ap-001scfairp0371.dialsprint.net ([63.184.193.117] helo=faucet.net) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18fsVK-00045g-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:08:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3E3F2DC0.BA8DAAF9@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] pom pom fringe References: <659F6299-37A3-11D7-8462-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:04:31 -0600 Status: RO Try typing in "ball fringe" in your search engine. This site has 18 colors including some multi neons: http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/ball-fringe.htm Have fun! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 22:02:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13937 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:02:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14313tv020601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14311C5023239; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1430kC5023142 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:00:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id AAEA277900E2; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:52:26 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c2cbfa$1cf0c980$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <659F6299-37A3-11D7-8462-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pom pom fringe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:04:19 -0500 Status: RO `Heather, what is pom-pom fringe? Do you mean ballfringe such as is used for curtains? or is it something else? I usually find it in curtain- upholstery stores. I am not sure if the WRIGHTco. in Sturbridge, Ma. is on line yet, but they would be a good bet. I have a jacket in my collection (about 1885 ) that is of plush and the balls on it are made of the same fabric...about the size of golf balls. They are individually attached by cord of about 1&1/ 2". Depending on the size and time available, you could try mounting the chenille balls so available at the craft stores. They ate cheap and come in lots of bright colors. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Meadows" To: Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:14 PM Subject: [h-cost] pom pom fringe > > I'm looking for sites that sell pom pom fringe - preferably > in rather bright colors! - for a classmate that is making a > rather unusual Victorian dress. > > > thanks for any leads! > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 22:10:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14047 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:10:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14394tv021114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:09:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14391C5026171; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1438jC5026079 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.119] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id ACC71AD40120; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:00:23 -0500 Message-ID: <002701c2cbfb$39aa7f20$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203101225.03395738@blue.ucdavis.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Men's Victorian Patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2CBD1.4FF11C00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:12:16 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2CBD1.4FF11C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Gwen. I have used this pattern and the worst part was the sizing. = The pattern shapes conform to the cutters manuals of the time and they = do not omit all the tailoring layers and steps. My customer could not = come for a fitting until pretty late in the construction process so I = had "fun" trying to stretch the front. The fit is meant to be snug, but = if the gent likes a more relaxed fit, he is looking at the wrong style. = = = Kathleen =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gwyn Carnegie=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] re: Men's Victorian Patterns Ditto, sort of... I've distilled my list of men's "OK" patterns down to Laughing Moon's = California Pants and Pattern's of History's 1878 Sack Coat Suit. I'm = debating whether to build some patterns from scratch for shirts or just = use either Laughing Moon's or Past Pattern's Men's Victorian Shirts = pattern for speed. Decent reproduction vests are easy to come by and = cheap and saves me from bound welt pocket hell ( I do not like them in a = train, I do not like them in a plane....). I've seen a few patterns for = double breasted 1860's frock coats but don't know which to go with. Any = suggestions or advice on the above? Now the tricky part: A close friend is working on building a daguerreotype or tintype = camera - which we go with is under debate and depends on if I can carve = the mould to replicate the old gutta percha type union cases. He's asked = me to make him a suit to wear once he's out in the world taking = pictures. I've always wanted to make a 1836-ish frock coat and have yet = to find a pattern. I immediately put the Old World Enterprises pattern = out of my mind since I've heard nothing good about their line. = Unfortunately, they seem to be the only company who makes a pattern for = this time period. Everyone else seems to have acceptable coat patterns = up to 1820 then they jump to 1850-1860. These all are missing the full = skirts, the back vents, pleats, and pockets, and the distinctive M = collar.=20 I have the Davies book, the Sutter's Fort Manual (cudoos to Mr. = Rickman if he's still lurking here), and schload of books on modern = men's suit patterning and construction. Is there a pattern available or = am I going to have to invent the wheel again? I'm hoping to have this = done, as well as all my own sewing done by Costume College.=20 At 01:02 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: Greetings All! I am trying to get a list of Men's Victorian patterns that people = have used. I have a friend who has been helping me pick some stuff out, = but am looking for a wider range of knowledge. So, I am looking for any = and all suggestions, good and bad. Which do you recommend to people and = which do you warn people away from. I am looking forward to the input! Thanks in advance, Kit Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2CBD1.4FF11C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Gwen.  I have used this pattern and the = worst part=20 was the sizing.  The pattern shapes conform to the cutters manuals = of the=20 time and they do not omit all the tailoring layers and steps.  My = customer=20 could not come for a fitting until pretty late in the construction = process so I=20 had "fun" trying to stretch the front. The fit is meant to be snug, but = if the=20 gent likes a more relaxed fit, he is looking at the wrong=20 style.           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         Kathleen   =20             =    =20             =    =20    
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Gwyn=20 Carnegie
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 = 1:49=20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] re: Men's = Victorian=20 Patterns


Ditto, sort of...

I've distilled my list of = men's=20 "OK" patterns down to Laughing Moon's California Pants and Pattern's = of=20 History's 1878 Sack Coat Suit. I'm debating whether to build some = patterns=20 from scratch for shirts or just use either Laughing Moon's or Past = Pattern's=20 Men's Victorian Shirts pattern for speed.  Decent reproduction = vests are=20 easy to come by and cheap and saves me from bound welt pocket hell ( I = do not=20 like them in a train, I do not like them in a plane....). I've seen a = few=20 patterns for double breasted 1860's frock coats but don't know which = to go=20 with. Any suggestions or advice on the above?

Now the tricky = part:
A=20 close friend is working on building a daguerreotype or tintype camera = - =20 which we go with is under debate and depends on if I can carve the = mould to=20 replicate the old gutta percha type union cases. He's asked me to make = him a=20 suit to wear once he's out in the world taking pictures. I've always = wanted to=20 make a 1836-ish frock coat and have yet to find a pattern. I = immediately put=20 the Old World Enterprises pattern out of my mind since I've heard = nothing good=20 about their line. Unfortunately, they seem to be the only company who = makes a=20 pattern for this time period. Everyone else seems to have acceptable = coat=20 patterns up to 1820 then they jump to 1850-1860. These all are missing = the=20 full skirts, the back vents, pleats, and pockets, and the distinctive = M=20 collar.

I have the Davies book, the Sutter's Fort Manual = (cudoos to=20 Mr. Rickman if he's still lurking here), and schload of books on = modern men's=20 suit patterning and construction. Is there a pattern available or am I = going=20 to have to invent the wheel again? I'm hoping to have this done, as = well as=20 all my own sewing done by Costume College.

At 01:02 PM = 2/3/2003 -0500,=20 you wrote:
Greetings = All!

I am trying=20 to get a list of Men's Victorian patterns that people have = used.  I=20 have a friend who has been helping me pick some stuff out, but am = looking=20 for a wider range of knowledge.  So, I am looking for any and = all=20 suggestions, good and bad.  Which do you recommend to people = and which=20 do you warn people away from.

I am looking forward to the=20 input!

Thanks in advance,
Kit

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis=20

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2CBD1.4FF11C00-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 22:41:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14380 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:41:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h143eftv022696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:40:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h143e0C5005975; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h143dbC5005769 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:39:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.45]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9R00J9RM5UF1@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:39:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] pom pom fringe In-reply-to: <659F6299-37A3-11D7-8462-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030203193632.04e56b20@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:37:11 -0800 Status: RO >I'm looking for sites that sell pom pom fringe - preferably >in rather bright colors! - for a classmate that is making a >rather unusual Victorian dress. It's usually upholstery trim, so go places that sell upholstery fabric and trim. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 23:01:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14602 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:01:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14405tv023822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14402C5012406; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h143xMC5012212 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:59:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from user-0ccsjoa.cable.mindspring.com ([24.206.79.10] helo=earthlink.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18fuEz-0001Wr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:59:22 -0800 Message-ID: <3E3F3A08.FE88D75D@earthlink.net> From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:la fleur de lyse References: <20030203235500.8309.8624.Mailman@net.indra.com> <001101c2cbe4$2d888960$0507d1d8@d7k7b6> <200302032056.09029.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: perronnelle@earthlink.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:56:56 -0600 Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > Interesting. I've never even heard of La Fleur de Lyse, and I've been > collecting catalogs, web URLs, etc. on historic patterns and websites for > quite a while now. Do the folk responsible for La Fleur de Lyse have a site > of their own, or do they sell their patterns solely through third parties? > > Thanks for your information on them. http://www3.sympatico.ca/gousse-matte/fdl/fleurdelyse.html --Charlene -- Thou shalt not bear false witness. But there are still plenty of true things that you can say to get your brother in trouble. -- Raymond Lesser, 20 Things I Learned from God (or voices inside my head, I'm not sure which, yet) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 23:01:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14612 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:01:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1440Otv023838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:00:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1440NC5012526; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from niobium.golden.net (niobium.golden.net [199.166.210.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h143xsC5012340 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:59:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from d7k7b6 (AS53-01-102.cas-ows.golden.net [216.209.7.102]) by niobium.golden.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id h143xqa14240 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:59:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001101c2cc01$cf62fdc0$6607d1d8@d7k7b6> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <20030204030100.23231.49627.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [h-cost] Re: la fleur de lyse Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Five Rivers" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:58:54 -0500 Status: RO Dear Cathy, > Interesting. I've never even heard of La Fleur de Lyse, and I've been > collecting catalogs, web URLs, etc. on historic patterns and websites for > quite a while now. La Fleur de Lyse is the brainchild of Suzanne Gousse and her team, right here in Quebec, Canada. I don't know if they have their own site, I'm sorry to say, but you can view their patterns through our website. Some of the resources upon which Suzanne and her compatriots have been able to draw are quite impressive, among them family members within the archeological division of Parks Canada. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 23:22:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14699 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:22:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144L2tv024888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144L0UN018926; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144KvUO018899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h144r2I3023888 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:53:02 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h144r1LM023886 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:53:01 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: la fleur de lyse User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030204030100.23231.49627.Mailman@net.indra.com> <001101c2cc01$cf62fdc0$6607d1d8@d7k7b6> In-Reply-To: <001101c2cc01$cf62fdc0$6607d1d8@d7k7b6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302032353.01451.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h144KvUO018899 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:53:01 -0500 Status: RO On Monday 03 February 2003 10:58 pm, Five Rivers wrote: > Dear Cathy, > > > Interesting. I've never even heard of La Fleur de Lyse, and I've been > > collecting catalogs, web URLs, etc. on historic patterns and websites for > > quite a while now. > > La Fleur de Lyse is the brainchild of Suzanne Gousse and her team, > right here in Quebec, Canada. I don't know if they have their own site, I'm > sorry to say, but you can view their patterns through our website. > > Some of the resources upon which Suzanne and her compatriots have been > able to draw are quite impressive, among them family members within the > archeological division of Parks Canada. Thanks for the information. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 23:24:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14706 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:24:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144N1tv024987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144N0UN019562; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f139.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.139]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144M1UN019194 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:21:37 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 04:21:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: 19cWoman@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2003 04:21:37.0428 (UTC) FILETIME=[E89C2D40:01C2CC04] Subject: [h-cost] skirt lifter revisited (joking) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:21:37 -0800 Status: RO I was cruising through notions and came across these cafe hooks. I just thought "In lightweight fabrics, I could sew those in my skirt for poofing!!" I just had to share my twilight zone moment. Nothing is safe anymore, I will wear curtains if I want to!!! (please ignore the maniacal cackles...adjusting insulin ratios makes me a little batty) http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=202a534d98460d4ae7606db25cb54a43&lat=1044326159&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2edenverfabrics%2ecom%2fpages%2fstatic%2fball%2dfringe%2ehtm Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 23:37:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14771 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:37:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144a2tv025687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144a1UN023687; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144Z4UN023354 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([64.175.35.45]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9R007VCOPS8C@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:34:40 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] skirt lifter revisited (joking) In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030203203328.00d869d0@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:34:34 -0800 Status: RO I clicked this: >http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=202a534d98460d4ae7606db25cb54a43&lat=1044326159&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2edenverfabrics%2ecom%2fpages%2fstatic%2fball%2dfringe%2ehtm and got this: Your email message has been idle and this link has become inactive. To access the link, close this window and return to your MSN Hotmail Message. Then click the browser's Refresh button or close your message and reopen it. Now what? (I'm not laughing yet) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 23:40:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14779 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:40:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144d1tv025855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144d0UN024726; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144cEUN024485 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:38:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-008neomahp285.dialsprint.net ([63.178.237.215] helo=hppav.radiks.net) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18fuqa-00082U-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:38:13 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030203223022.01e86760@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <20030203190008.16574.53571.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: sources for garb Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:37:46 -0600 Status: RO Yeah, Felix!! He also comes to Demicon, a small science fiction convention in Des Moines IA. Surprisingly, he sells quite a lot of stuff there. As someone said (perhaps about some other dealer), if you're not a standard size, it may not fit the best. While he has a large range of sizes for both men and women (very small to very large), if you're very tall or long-waisted, they will be a bit short. I'm 5'11", my husband is the same, but VERY long waisted. We contracted with him to make us custom-sized versions, and they turned out very nice. We asked him to leave them un-trimmed, as we wanted to decorate them ourselves. We may actually get them finished finally this year. One nice thing he does, is the skirts and breeches have split waistbands - like good men's pants - so if you get a little larger or smaller, you don't have to take the whole waistband off to re-size it. Sandy >From: > >Felix Needleworthy has some very nicely made stuff and a fairly good range >of prices. He sells at the Minnesota and Bristol Renn Faires. >http://www.needleworthy.com/ > >********************** >Rebecca Schmitt >aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol, >BRF FOF "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly-- Why They Are Simply Doomed." Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 23:42:59 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14786 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:42:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144g2tv026001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144g1UN025706; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144fCUN025431 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id 6.133.1a8caa0f (15864) for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:41:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m07.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.135]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v90_r2.5) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-0203234105; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:41:05 1900 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Men's Victorian Patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <55C35314.4C7C34A5.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:41:05 -0500 Status: RO In a message dated 2/3/2003 10:12:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > Hello Gwen. I have used this pattern and the worst part was the sizing. The pattern shapes conform to the cutters manuals of the time and they do not omit all the tailoring layers and steps. My customer could not come for a fitting until pretty late in the construction process so I had "fun" trying to stretch the front. The fit is meant to be snug, but if the gent likes a more relaxed fit, he is looking at the wrong style. > Kathleen I'm confused, do you have the 1830's Frock coat or the Sack Suit? Kit _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Mon Feb 3 23:47:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14799 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:47:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144k2tv026251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144k1UN026979; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe22.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h144jtUN026922 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:45:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:45:50 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.200.136.46] From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] skirt lifter revisited (joking) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2003 04:45:50.0646 (UTC) FILETIME=[4ACBA560:01C2CC08] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:46:01 -0500 Status: RO Try this link instead http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/ball-fringe.htm :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Sena" To: <19cWoman@yahoogroups.com>; Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 11:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] skirt lifter revisited (joking) > > > > > > > I was cruising through notions and came across these cafe hooks. I just > thought "In lightweight fabrics, I could sew those in my skirt for > poofing!!" I just had to share my twilight zone moment. Nothing is safe > anymore, I will wear curtains if I want to!!! (please ignore the maniacal > cackles...adjusting insulin ratios makes me a little batty) > > http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=202a534d98460d4ae7606db25cb54 a43&lat=1044326159&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2edenverfabrics%2ecom%2fpage s%2fstatic%2fball%2dfringe%2ehtm > > Jennifer Sena > Distant Designs > http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi > > I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 00:19:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14962 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:19:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h145I2tv028087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h145I0UN007722; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f102.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h145HrUN007639 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:17:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:17:44 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 05:17:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] skirt lifter revisited (joking) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2003 05:17:44.0908 (UTC) FILETIME=[BFC8D8C0:01C2CC0C] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:17:44 -0800 Status: RO >Try this link instead >http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/ball-fringe.htm > >:-) > Thank You!! From there go to curtain hardware. "Jennifer Sena" _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 02:18:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23207 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:18:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h147H5tv002923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h147H0UN011878; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h147GlUN011824 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:16:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <20030204071642053003kco0e>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:16:42 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c2cc1d$5d865dc0$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] LACMA online images Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:16:41 -0800 Status: RO LACMA (the Los Angeles County Museum of Art) has finally gotten around to putting up some more costume images on their website -- http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe Happy browsing! - Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 02:25:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27295 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:25:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h147O2tv003155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h147O0UN013428; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h147NRUN013316 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:23:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.162]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9R00GT1WI06E@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:22:48 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] skirt lifter revisited (joking) In-reply-to: X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030203232127.04e23430@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:22:11 -0800 Status: RO >>http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/ball-fringe.htm >> >>:-) > >Thank You!! From there go to curtain hardware. Um, yeah, those ought to work... (OK, I'm laughing now.) Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 02:47:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08253 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:47:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h147k2tv004077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h147k1UN019066; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h147jgUN018970 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from fenris.net (12-246-83-124.client.attbi.com[12.246.83.124]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003020407453605100hskp0e>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:45:36 +0000 Message-ID: <3E3F6FA2.8040704@fenris.net> From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] la fleur de lyse References: <20030203190008.16574.53571.Mailman@net.indra.com> <001301c2cbd2$4bd1b340$6807d1d8@d7k7b6> <00eb01c2cbd5$5bf80a50$9debcacf@susan> In-Reply-To: <00eb01c2cbd5$5bf80a50$9debcacf@susan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:45:38 -0800 Status: RO Susan wrote: >Has anyone used any of the La Fleur de Lyse patterns? I found them looking around the 5 rivers site and they look good, but was wondering how they sewed up. > >I've become interested in making some norman (around 1000s to 1200s) outfits to wear to events. > I have made the women's norman pattern. Good information on fabric and trim, and the directions were clear. I am a size 20-24, and the largest size fit me well, except I neglected to make the arms larger in diameter at the elbow, so it was a little tight there. I am very pleased with these patterns. Liz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 04:23:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14385 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 04:23:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h149M2tv006694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h149M0UN012942; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41508.mail.yahoo.com (web41508.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h149L3UN012697 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:21:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030204092057.18977.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 09:20:57 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] LACMA online images To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <001401c2cc1d$5d865dc0$befc8218@hopperflop2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:20:57 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > LACMA (the Los Angeles County Museum of Art) has finally gotten around to > putting up some more costume images on their website -- > http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe Fantastic! Downloading like mad here :-) Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 09:28:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01957 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:28:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14ERctv017553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:27:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14EPqUN025042; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:25:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14EOLUN024593 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:24:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-67.28.30.218.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([67.28.30.218] helo=earthlink.net) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18g3zn-0002rt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 06:24:19 -0800 Message-ID: <3E3FCB35.F2629FB0@earthlink.net> From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] LACMA online images References: <001401c2cc1d$5d865dc0$befc8218@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 08:16:21 -0600 Status: RO Why is the url executable, i.e. ends exe? Onaree Kendra Van Cleave wrote: > > LACMA (the Los Angeles County Museum of Art) has finally gotten around to > putting up some more costume images on their website -- > http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe > > Happy browsing! > > - Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom. -- Latin proverb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 09:55:24 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02062 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:55:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14Erntv018852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:53:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14EptUN002634; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:51:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14EkLUN000897 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:46:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ap-027scfairp0129.dialsprint.net ([63.176.24.129] helo=faucet.net) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18g4Kt-0002xx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 06:46:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3E3FDF68.E4F6DDB9@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] LACMA online images References: <001401c2cc1d$5d865dc0$befc8218@hopperflop2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 09:42:31 -0600 Status: RO WOW! Thanks, Kendra! I've just been plowing through tons of 16th-century costume drawings... you can click on the costume and textile collection, then on "browse by date" then on 16th Century. 16th-century fans please go look at the Album Amicorum of a German Soldier, which is past the 45 or so plates from Jean Jacques Boissard's 1581 volume. The Album, supposedly from 1595, has some very wide cone-shaped skirts--not at all like the barrel shape that one usually sees. And that's not just how he draws skirts because the Italian ladies all have a softer shape, like the ones in Boissard. How to explain this? Did the illustrious LACMA somehow miss the date, or were they reporting when it was published and not when it was drawn? What a resource!! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 10:13:01 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02255 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:13:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14F8luR019960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14E8CUN019843; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:08:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14E7QUN019601 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:07:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.114] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A7271C9D0152; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 08:59:03 -0500 Message-ID: <002501c2cc57$3cd358a0$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: References: <55C35314.4C7C34A5.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Men's Victorian Patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:10:56 -0500 Status: RO Kit, the pattern I have is the Romantic Frock Coat with shawl collar and flared skirt. It closes with one button. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Men's Victorian Patterns > In a message dated 2/3/2003 10:12:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > > > Hello Gwen. I have used this pattern and the worst part was the sizing. The pattern shapes conform to the cutters manuals of the time and they do not omit all the tailoring layers and steps. My customer could not come for a fitting until pretty late in the construction process so I had "fun" trying to stretch the front. The fit is meant to be snug, but if the gent likes a more relaxed fit, he is looking at the wrong style. > > Kathleen > > I'm confused, do you have the 1830's Frock coat or the Sack Suit? > > Kit > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 10:27:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02354 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:27:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14FQ9tv021205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:26:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14FQ1pn017297; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14FPppo017212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:25:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-101-63.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.101.63]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h14FPnD8013648 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:25:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Subject: Re: [h-cost] pom pom fringe Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6--506845684 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030203145458.03421300@blue.ucdavis.edu> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:25:47 -0800 Status: RO --Apple-Mail-6--506845684 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Just home dec fringe would be fine, it's for a school project, not a museum. On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 02:55 PM, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: > Original or reproduction fringe? > > At 10:14 AM 2/3/2003 -0800, you wrote: > > I'm looking for sites that sell pom pom fringe - preferably > in rather bright colors! - for a classmate that is making a > rather unusual Victorian dress. > > thanks for any leads! > > > > Gwyn Carnegie > University of California at Davis --Apple-Mail-6--506845684 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Just home dec fringe would be fine, it's for a school project, not a museum. On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 02:55 PM, Gwyn Carnegie wrote: Original or reproduction fringe? At 10:14 AM 2/3/2003 -0800, you wrote: I'm looking for sites that sell pom pom fringe - preferably in rather bright colors! - for a classmate that is making a rather unusual Victorian dress. thanks for any leads! 0000,0000,FFFFGwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --Apple-Mail-6--506845684-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 11:30:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02728 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:30:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14GS5tv026986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:28:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14GS1ks020268; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from kumc-scanin.kumc.edu (kumc-gateway-fs.kumc.edu [169.147.166.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14GRTks020032 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:27:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from KUMC-GATEWAY-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-scanin.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 10:27:28 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [h-cost] Bjarnes Embroidery Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 10:27:18 -0600 Status: RO And my embroidery isnt bad either. Leif og Bjarne Drews >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There I was, enjoying a quite moment catching up on the h-costume digests after a long weekend, and that line scrolled up my screen. I snorted my tea all over the monitor :)!!!!! You do lovely work Bjarne, *definately* not 'bad' :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 11:39:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02812 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:39:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14Gb1tv028133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14Gb0ks025417; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:37:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jabberwock.wonderland.com (jabberwock.wonderland.com [205.179.178.102]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14Ga0kt024921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from wonderland.com (adsl-63-207-101-63.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.101.63]) by jabberwock.wonderland.com (8.12.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h14GAdD8013910 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:10:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alice@wonderland.com) Subject: Re: [h-cost] pom pom fringe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Heather Meadows To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3E3F2DC0.BA8DAAF9@faucet.net> Message-Id: <32B4C2AA-385B-11D7-B7A9-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:10:37 -0800 Status: RO oh thank you! this is the very site I was tryng to recall! On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 07:04 PM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Try typing in "ball fringe" in your search engine. This site has 18 > colors including some multi neons: > http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/static/ball-fringe.htm > > Have fun! > Melanie Schuessler > > http://www.faucet.net/costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 12:25:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03192 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:25:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14HN7tv002757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14HN0qj022185; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14HMwqj022150 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:22:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffa.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.250]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 899295EE0F1 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:22:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001201c2cc72$11bafb80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarnes Embroidery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:23:00 +0100 Status: RO Dear Catherine. Thanks ever so much. I hope not you got the tea in your throat. :-) Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bjarnes Embroidery > And my embroidery isnt bad either. > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > There I was, enjoying a quite moment catching up on the h-costume > digests after a long weekend, and that line scrolled up my screen. > > I snorted my tea all over the monitor :)!!!!! > > You do lovely work Bjarne, *definately* not 'bad' :). > > Catherine > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 12:26:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03203 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:26:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14HPEtv003023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:25:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14HPDqj023610; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14HOlqj023342 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:24:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffa.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.250]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B312A5EE1F8 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:24:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001801c2cc72$5494a140$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <001401c2cc1d$5d865dc0$befc8218@hopperflop2> <3E3FDF68.E4F6DDB9@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] LACMA online images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:24:53 +0100 Status: RO Hi. Yes, and i enjoyed the late 18th century fashion drawings very much. Those i had never seen before, and it is right my period. I am all smile today, what a treat!!! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melanie Schuessler" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] LACMA online images > WOW! Thanks, Kendra! > > I've just been plowing through tons of 16th-century costume drawings... > you can click on the costume and textile collection, then on "browse by > date" then on 16th Century. > > 16th-century fans please go look at the Album Amicorum of a German > Soldier, which is past the 45 or so plates from Jean Jacques Boissard's > 1581 volume. The Album, supposedly from 1595, has some very wide > cone-shaped skirts--not at all like the barrel shape that one usually > sees. And that's not just how he draws skirts because the Italian > ladies all have a softer shape, like the ones in Boissard. How to > explain this? Did the illustrious LACMA somehow miss the date, or were > they reporting when it was published and not when it was drawn? > > What a resource!! > > Melanie Schuessler > > http://www.faucet.net/costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 12:31:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03231 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:31:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14HW2tv003803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14HW0qj028085; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.washjeff.edu (mail.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14HVPqj027511 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.81.108] by mail.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-7.11) id A6F620C30152; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 12:23:02 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c2cc73$bbb4f860$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2CC49.D20C5E20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Frock coats of the 1830s Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:34:54 -0500 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2CC49.D20C5E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable )n the subject of gents Victorian costume, I have been filing books gone = astray and have in hand Early Victorian Men, 1838, as edited by RL Shep, = published 2001. Fred Struthers carries this; it also has an interesting = Etiquette. Plates with corresponding patterns are also given, as well as = construction method. = Kathleen ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2CC49.D20C5E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
)n the subject of gents Victorian costume, I have = been filing=20 books gone astray and have in hand Early Victorian Men, 1838, as = edited by=20 RL Shep, published 2001. Fred Struthers carries this; it also has an = interesting=20 Etiquette. Plates with corresponding patterns are also given, as well as = construction method.        =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20      Kathleen      =20             =    =20             =    =20
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2CC49.D20C5E20-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 14:06:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12141 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:06:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14J6Jtv017801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:06:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14J6BrH029959; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14J5srH029778 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:05:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h14J5rN23590 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:05:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030204110257.02ca7b50@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frock coats of the 1830s In-Reply-To: <002001c2cc73$bbb4f860$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_10844828==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 11:06:03 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_10844828==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hmmm I have a bunch of Shep's books, mostly the later period tailoring books. I suppose I'll have to pick this up now. I ordered the Tailor's Guide patterns this morning. I'll write up a review for the GBACG site once I finish the coat. At 12:34 PM 2/4/2003 -0500, you wrote: >)n the subject of gents Victorian costume, I have been filing books gone >astray and have in hand Early Victorian Men, 1838, as edited by RL Shep, >published 2001. Fred Struthers carries this; it also has an interesting >Etiquette. Plates with corresponding patterns are also given, as well as >construction >method. >Kathleen Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis --=====================_10844828==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmmm I have a bunch of Shep's books, mostly the later period tailoring books. I suppose I'll have to pick this up now.
I ordered the Tailor's Guide patterns this morning. I'll write up a review for the GBACG site once I finish the coat.

At 12:34 PM 2/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
)n the subject of gents Victorian costume, I have been filing books gone astray and have in hand Early Victorian Men, 1838, as edited by RL Shep, published 2001. Fred Struthers carries this; it also has an interesting Etiquette. Plates with corresponding patterns are also given, as well as construction method.           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;  Kathleen           &n= bsp;            =             &nbs= p; 

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
--=====================_10844828==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 14:27:16 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12259 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:27:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14JI3tv019109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14JI2rH008022; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14JHBrH007514 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:17:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18g8Z4-0003cG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 11:17:02 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000401c2cc82$004fa6b0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CC47.53F25550" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030204110257.02ca7b50@blue.ucdavis.edu> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:16:57 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CC47.53F25550 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by Quesnel? http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm An unknown lady by Francois Quesnel, c.1570 Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CC47.53F25550 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of = this painting by Quesnel?

 

http://www.t= udor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm

 

An unknown lady by Francois Quesnel, c.1570

 

Sg

 

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CC47.53F25550-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 15:12:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12653 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:12:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14KD4tv025196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14KD0rH011661; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14KCLrH011241 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:12:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc632021-b.attbi.com (12-246-76-5.client.attbi.com[12.246.76.5]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003020420121505100hsu0fe>; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:12:15 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204120827.00a006f0@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: mabse@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: h-costume@indra.com From: MaryAnn Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel In-Reply-To: <000401c2cc82$004fa6b0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030204110257.02ca7b50@blue.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1086384==_.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 12:10:32 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_1086384==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed looking at the picture above the one above that one, thought to be Helena Snakeborg, would the garment that is the sleeves and neckline stuff with the flowers on it be her chemise, or would it be something she would wear over her chemise? maryann At 12:16 PM 2/4/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by Quesnel? > > > >http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm > > > >An unknown lady by Francois Quesnel, c.1570 > > > >Sg > > --=====================_1086384==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" looking at the picture above the one above that one, thought to be Helena Snakeborg, would the garment that is the sleeves and neckline stuff with the flowers on it be her chemise, or would it be something she would wear over her chemise?  maryann

At 12:16 PM 2/4/2003 -0700, you wrote:

Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by Quesnel?

 

http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm

 

An unknown lady by Francois Quesnel, c.1570

 

Sg

 

--=====================_1086384==_.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 15:34:17 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12814 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:34:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14KQBtv026565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14KQ0rH019506; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14KPLrH019143 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18g9d5-0000Er-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 12:25:15 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000201c2cc8b$887080b0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C2CC50.DC11A8B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204120827.00a006f0@mail.attbi.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:25:17 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C2CC50.DC11A8B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Every reference I have seen to that portrait says it is a partlet. Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of MaryAnn Jones Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 1:11 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel looking at the picture above the one above that one, thought to be Helena Snakeborg, would the garment that is the sleeves and neckline stuff with the flowers on it be her chemise, or would it be something she would wear over her chemise? maryann At 12:16 PM 2/4/2003 -0700, you wrote: Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by Quesnel? http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm An unknown lady by Francois Quesnel, c.1570 Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C2CC50.DC11A8B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Every reference I have seen to that portrait says it is a partlet.  =

 

Sg

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of MaryAnn Jones
Sent: = Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 1:11 PM
To: = h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] = Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel

 

looking at the picture above the one above that one, thought to = be Helena Snakeborg, would the garment that is the sleeves and neckline = stuff with the flowers on it be her chemise, or would it be something she would = wear over her chemise?  maryann

At 12:16 PM = 2/4/2003 -0700, you = wrote:


Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of = this painting by Quesnel?

 

http://www.t= udor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm

 

An unknown lady by = Francois Quesnel, c.1570

 

Sg

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C2CC50.DC11A8B0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 16:35:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13312 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:35:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14LXrtv003096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:33:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14LXqrH029774; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14LUhrH027746 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:30:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net16sp105.directcon.net [209.233.107.105]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h14LUDGu012524; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:30:14 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030204133357.00d32820@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204120827.00a006f0@mail.attbi.com> References: <000401c2cc82$004fa6b0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> <5.2.0.9.2.20030204110257.02ca7b50@blue.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:33:57 -0800 Status: RO At 12:10 PM 02/04/2003 -0800, MaryAnn Jones wrote: looking at the picture above the one above that one, thought to be Helena Snakeborg, would the garment that is the sleeves and neckline stuff with the flowers on it be her chemise, or would it be something she would wear over her chemise? If you look just above the upper edge of her bodice, you can see that she is wearing a low necked smock. The garment over it, with the flowers, is either a second smock with a high neck, sometimes called a shirt, or a parlet and matching sleeves. Margo "One Tough Costumer" The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping! See it at http//:www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 16:49:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13410 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:49:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14Lo3tv004948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14Lo12b009371; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:50:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14Ln82b008956 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h14Ln7o25643 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:49:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030204134211.02c1e4f0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Tintype cases (was "Victorian Mens' Patterns") In-Reply-To: <20030204014807.9268.qmail@web80109.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030203235500.8309.8624.Mailman@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_20639171==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:49:29 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_20639171==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dawn, could you contact me off list at gacarnegie@ucdavis.edu? Thanks At 05:48 PM 2/3/2003 -0800, Jacobson Dawn wrote: >Hi all-- > > If someone on this list does know of someone making > > reproduction cases in > > 1/2 to 1/9 size, could you please send me a note? > > > > Danke > >I asked Stephen (my DH), and he says there's somebody >making darn near perfect reproduction tin/ambrotype >cases; unfortunately, he didn't remember the >manufacturer's name, but suggested that you contact >William Dunniway, the historical photographer. Bill >has the information you're looking for. > >Dawn Jacobson >P.S. I'm baaaaaaack! 8-D Gwyn Carnegie University of California, Davis --=====================_20639171==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Dawn, could you contact me off list at gacarnegie@ucdavis.edu?

Thanks

At 05:48 PM 2/3/2003 -0800, Jacobson Dawn wrote:
Hi all--
> If someone on this list does know of someone making
> reproduction cases in
> 1/2 to 1/9 size, could you please send me a note?
>
> Danke

I asked Stephen (my DH), and he says there's somebody
making darn near perfect reproduction tin/ambrotype
cases; unfortunately, he didn't remember the
manufacturer's name, but suggested that you contact
William Dunniway, the historical photographer. Bill
has the information you're looking for.

Dawn Jacobson
P.S.  I'm baaaaaaack! 8-D

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis

--=====================_20639171==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 17:22:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14058 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:22:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14MC9tv007236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:12:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14MC12b022858; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14MBH2b022380 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:11:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.162]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9T008JK1HDRJ@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 14:08:04 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait In-reply-to: <000201c2cc8b$887080b0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204120827.00a006f0@mail.attbi.com> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:51:35 -0800 Status: RO >Every reference I have seen to that portrait says it is a partlet. And most of the ones I have read say, erroneously IMHO, that the puffing at the shoulders is her chemise or shirt or whatever they are calling that flowered garment. I think that puffing is a separate piece, and I think it's sewn into the sleeves permanently as puffing. There are several extant shirt-garments with embroidery in all the right places for them to be examples of the garment the lady in the portrait wears. The embroidery stops where it wouldn't show under the portrait lady's bodice. There are a few in Fashion In Detail, and there's another (in pale purple on white) in G.W.Digby's Elizabethan Embroidery book. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 17:31:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14152 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:31:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14MJ1tv007992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14MJ02b027164; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h136ROpB013898 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:27:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303a (12-238-186-49.client.attbi.com[12.238.186.49]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <200302030627190010087ahue>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 06:27:19 +0000 Message-ID: <0c5a01c2cb4d$f5157660$31baee0c@c59303a> From: "chiara" To: References: <20030131183839.7064.16449.Mailman@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Online patterns for making opera-length gloves? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "chiara" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 00:31:10 -0600 Status: RO Ok, at least four of the books I have use this quote for a definition of lengths... Glove length is expressed in "buttons", and is the number of inches from the bottom of the thumb seam to the top of the glove. The overall length of a glove is 7 to 8" longer than the button length. Button length: 2 wrist length 8 mid forearm 12 cups the elbow. 16 this is the traditional "opera" or "formal" length glove, a bit less than midway from elbow to shoulder. 21 shoulder length. Sincerely, Chiara Ansteorra, Steppes Not all ermine spots are created equally ----- Original Message ----- From: "michiko" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] Online patterns for making opera-length gloves? > Hello again! > > I have some black satin elbow-length gloves for this Vienna ballgown, > but am wondering if anyone's ever sewn their own (I'd like to make > some which match my dress -- burgundy or copper/coral -- whichever > color it ends up being, am debating and anguishing over that today ;) > and would mid-bicep be considered more 'opera-length'? > > Just wondering whether you'd consider sewing gloves really hard, or > no big deal (easier to just go buy them, or...?) and if you might > know of a place I could get a pattern and instructions online that > would be wonderful - thanks! > > Best, > Michiko > -- > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > Michiko Stehrenberger > Illustration & Character Design > BimBionic Design Lab | New York > http://www.michiko.com > ---------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 17:32:44 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14160 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:32:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14MN1tv008411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14MN12b029501; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14MMC2b029054 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:22:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18gBSE-0005aj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 14:22:11 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait Message-ID: <000201c2cc9b$de209670$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:22:13 -0700 Status: RO And most of the ones I have read say, erroneously IMHO, that the puffing at the shoulders is her chemise or shirt or whatever they are calling that flowered garment. I think that puffing is a separate piece, and I think it's sewn into the sleeves permanently as puffing. I would agree. Hunisett does a nice job of explaining how to make this panned sleeve. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 18:13:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14478 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:13:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14NF3tv013588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h14NF2tR000264; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web20206.mail.yahoo.com (web20206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h14NEvtR000196 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:14:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030204231456.10464.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.6.138.34] by web20206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:14:56 EST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] LACMA online images To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <3E3FCB35.F2629FB0@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:14:56 +1100 (EST) Status: RO --- Ms Berard wrote: > Why is the url executable, i.e. ends exe? Because MWeb.exe is an image display program, for want of the correct term. From LACMA's website: "MWeb integrates searching and display of any number of collections, database, images, and other media. Perfect for consortia or for searching museum and library catalogs together -- without Z39.50!" Bella http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 20:05:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15110 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:05:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15167tv022495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15161tR024484; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1515gtR024310 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:05:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.12.2ca1047f (17526) for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:05:31 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <12.2ca1047f.2b71bd5b@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830's frock coat (was Re: Men's Victorian Patterns) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_12.2ca1047f.2b71bd5b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:05:31 EST Status: RO --part1_12.2ca1047f.2b71bd5b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was chatting with some costumer friends about the 1830s frock coat thread. I am informed that padding does indeed find it's way into the chest area of coats. [Remember I've only seen 2 real coats...hardly a solid representation] One can see the chest padding as early as 1770s [maybe earlier] and it becomes more pronounced with the coming of the new century. So with or without padding. Well, it depends on the look you want. Design-wise, I'd say the padding is more formal and helps the coat to look more expensive and upper class. The "just a piece of cloth" look is amiable in a county setting or in a warm, outdoorsy environment [not necessarily a poor or lower class look...though it can help in that look too] --part1_12.2ca1047f.2b71bd5b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was chatting with some costumer friends about the 1830s frock c= oat thread. I am informed that padding does indeed find it's way into the ch= est area of coats. [Remember I've only seen 2 real coats...hardly a solid re= presentation] One can see the chest padding as early as 1770s [maybe earlier= ] and it becomes more pronounced with the coming of the new century.
So with or without padding. Well, it depends on the look you want. Design-wi= se, I'd say the padding is more formal and helps the coat to look more expen= sive and upper class. The "just a piece of cloth" look is amiable in a count= y setting or in a warm, outdoorsy environment [not necessarily a poor or low= er class look...though it can help in that look too] --part1_12.2ca1047f.2b71bd5b_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 22:02:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15647 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:02:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15342tv029278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15341tR004342; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1533ntS004268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h153aEI3026726 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:36:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h153aAm3026724 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:36:10 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204120827.00a006f0@mail.attbi.com> <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302042236.10499.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h1533ntS004268 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:36:10 -0500 Status: RO On Tuesday 04 February 2003 04:51 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: [actually, sg wrote] > >Every reference I have seen to that portrait says it is a partlet. Looking at the image I find that difficult to believe. You can almost see the shadow underneath the doublet sleeve at the top where the flowered sleeves come out from underneath. Partlets are tied on atop everything. If the sections that show at neckline and arms aren't an embroidered chemise, or at least a sleeved garment of some kind worn *under* the lady's doublet, I'm a monkey's aunt. :-) [Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:] > And most of the ones I have read say, erroneously IMHO, that the puffing at > the shoulders is her chemise or shirt or whatever they are calling that > flowered garment. I think that puffing is a separate piece, and I think > it's sewn into the sleeves permanently as puffing. I agree with you. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 22:09:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15663 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:09:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153B3tv029612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153B0tR006569; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from salzburg.ucdavis.edu (salzburg.ucdavis.edu [169.237.104.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153AFtR006323 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from adalia.ucdavis.edu (adalia.ucdavis.edu [169.237.104.182]) by salzburg.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/virus-scan-4.0.1) with ESMTP id h153ADj10726 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:10:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from www@localhost) by adalia.ucdavis.edu (8.11.4/8.11.0/UCD4.1.0) id h153ADY08437; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:10:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200302050310.h153ADY08437@adalia.ucdavis.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Gwyndolynn Carnegie" X-Errors-To: gacarnegie@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Geckomail-b16 X-Originating-IP: [66.125.108.34] X-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1) Subject: [h-cost] 16th c. dyes article has a new home Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:10:13 -0800 (PST) Status: RO I got around to migrating the article to a new host so here it is: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/article/article.html Thank you Drea for putting the bug in my ear. I had no idea anyone had actually read it - go figure >; ) Gwyn Carnegie University of California at Davis _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 22:30:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15734 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:30:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153W3tv000872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153W1tR012889; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153VEtR012548 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:31:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup-63.215.112.45.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([63.215.112.45] helo=earthlink.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18gGHI-00024c-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 19:31:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3E4083A1.2244D38B@earthlink.net> From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] LACMA online images References: <20030204231456.10464.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:23:13 -0600 Status: RO Thanks, I'd never heard of that before. Onaree Bella wrote: > > --- Ms Berard wrote: > > Why is the url executable, i.e. ends exe? > > Because MWeb.exe is an image display program, for want > of the correct term. From LACMA's website: > > "MWeb integrates searching and display of any number > of collections, database, images, and other media. > Perfect for consortia or for searching museum and > library catalogs together -- without Z39.50!" > > Bella > > http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies > - What's on at your local cinema? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom. -- Latin proverb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 22:35:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15744 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:35:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153b2tv001096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153b1tR014274; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153avtR014248 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:36:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from 216-119-9-57.smf.jps.net ([216.119.9.57] helo=pavilion) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18gGMq-0002sR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 19:36:57 -0800 Message-ID: <002c01c2ccc9$0ce4a8c0$2a0077d8@pavilion> From: "Lisa Sinervo" To: References: <200302050310.h153ADY08437@adalia.ucdavis.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th c. dyes article has a new home Organization: Threadneedlest.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: "Lisa Sinervo" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:45:38 -0800 Status: RO Thank you very much Gwyn. May I ask if you have ever come across a dye receipe using birch bark in the 16th century? Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gwyndolynn Carnegie" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:10 PM Subject: [h-cost] 16th c. dyes article has a new home > > I got around to migrating the article to a new host so here it is: > http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/article/article.html > > Thank you Drea for putting the bug in my ear. I had no idea anyone had > actually read it - go figure >; ) > > Gwyn Carnegie > University of California at Davis > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 22:52:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15838 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:52:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153s1tv002242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153s0tR019902; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hermes.directcon.net (hermes.directcon.net [206.170.184.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h153r2tR019668 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r4p35.directcon.net [206.170.184.84]) by hermes.directcon.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id h153quGu014388; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:52:57 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030204195638.00e34220@pop.directcon.net> X-Sender: margospatterns@pop.directcon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait In-Reply-To: <200302042236.10499.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030204120827.00a006f0@mail.attbi.com> <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 19:56:38 -0800 Status: RO At 10:36 PM 02/04/2003 -0500, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: Partlets are tied on atop everything. Well, we can't tell that they always are, can we? There are some portraits that are obviously seperate partlets, becasue they are worn tied or pinned on top of the other layers, but just as many or more show a garment which could be a full shirt, or could be a seperate partlet with its edges tucked/pinned/tied inside the edge of the bodice neckline. There's no way to tell. There is good evidence for partlets and sleeves that were sperate garments, but matching, because they show up in inventories, but as far as I know none have survived. Margo "One Tough Costumer" The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping! See it at http//:www.margospatterns.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 23:05:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15924 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:05:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15477tv003136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:07:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15472tR024369; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1546qtR024282 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:06:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18gGpn-0007gI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 20:06:51 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait Message-ID: <000701c2cccc$05a7c170$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030204195638.00e34220@pop.directcon.net> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:06:54 -0700 Status: RO Well, we can't tell that they always are, can we? There are some portraits that are obviously seperate partlets, becasue they are worn tied or pinned on top of the other layers, but just as many or more show a garment which could be a full shirt, or could be a seperate partlet with its edges tucked/pinned/tied inside the edge of the bodice neckline. There's no way to tell. There is good evidence for partlets and sleeves that were sperate garments, but matching, because they show up in inventories, but as far as I know none have survived. Margo [Sg:] Well said. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 23:09:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15947 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:09:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h154B1tv003319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h154B0tR025760; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h154AFtR025501 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18gGt2-0004nu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 20:10:13 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000801c2cccc$7dcb5ef0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2CC91.D16C86F0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <000401c2cc82$004fa6b0$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel-can we answer my question now? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:10:16 -0700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2CC91.D16C86F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whaaaa, we got side tracked on the other portrait. Anyone have a better picture of this one? :-) Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 12:17 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by Quesnel? http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm An unknown lady by Francois Quesnel, c.1570 Sg ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2CC91.D16C86F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Whaaaa<= /font>, we got side tracked on the other portrait.  Anyone have a better picture of = this one?  J<= /span>

 

Sg

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
Sent: = Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 12:17 PM
To: = h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Looking = for a color or better image by Quesnel

 

Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of = this painting by Quesnel?

 

http://www.t= udor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm

 

An unknown lady by Francois Quesnel, = c.1570

 

Sg

 

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2CC91.D16C86F0-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 23:20:40 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16010 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:20:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h154M2tv003908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h154M1tR029059; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h154LItS028835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:21:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h154riI3027166 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:53:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by minx.thyrsus.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h154riZu027164 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:53:44 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> <3.0.6.32.20030204195638.00e34220@pop.directcon.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030204195638.00e34220@pop.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200302042353.44257.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id h154LItS028835 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: cathy@thyrsus.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:53:44 -0500 Status: RO On Tuesday 04 February 2003 10:56 pm, Margo Anderson wrote: > At 10:36 PM 02/04/2003 -0500, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > Partlets are tied on atop everything. > > Well, we can't tell that they always are, can we? There are some portraits > that are obviously seperate partlets, becasue they are worn tied or pinned > on top of the other layers, but just as many or more show a garment which > could be a full shirt, or could be a seperate partlet with its edges > tucked/pinned/tied inside the edge of the bodice neckline. There's no way > to tell. My point was only one about assessing the secondary visual (i.e., portrait) evidence. Your comment acknowledges that if it was tied on top, it was what we are calling a "partlet". My opinion is that the Snakebor portrait does not show this type of garment. Your opinion may be different, and we may both be wrong. -- Cathy Raymond "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry S. Truman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Tue Feb 4 23:55:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16088 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:55:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h154v2tv006022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h154v1tR010320; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h154uCtR010049 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:56:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.162]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9T000YQKDNE7@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 20:56:12 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait In-reply-to: <200302042353.44257.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030204205449.04f0b320@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: <3.0.6.32.20030204195638.00e34220@pop.directcon.net> <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> <3.0.6.32.20030204195638.00e34220@pop.directcon.net> Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 20:56:04 -0800 Status: RO > > Partlets are tied on atop everything. > > > > Well, we can't tell that they always are, can we? There are some portraits > > that are obviously seperate partlets, becasue they are worn tied or pinned > > on top of the other layers, but just as many or more show a garment which > > could be a full shirt, or could be a seperate partlet with its edges > > tucked/pinned/tied inside the edge of the bodice neckline. There's no way > > to tell. > >My point was only one about assessing the secondary visual (i.e., portrait) >evidence. Your comment acknowledges that if it was tied on top, it was what >we are calling a "partlet". My opinion is that the Snakebor portrait does >not show this type of garment. Your opinion may be different, and we may >both be wrong. And we know there exist embroidered shirts, one of which this garment could be, because we've seen them in surviving examples. Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 00:13:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16144 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:12:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h155E2tv007185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h155E1tR015981; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h155DCtR015744 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:13:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from hopperflop2 (c-24-130-252-190.we.client2.attbi.com[24.130.252.190]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2003020505130600300jtbnpe>; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:13:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c2ccd5$43eb0010$befc8218@hopperflop2> From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] plaid in 18th c.? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:13:05 -0800 Status: RO Okay, so I recently bought 9 yards of beautiful silk dupioni in a purple, white, lavendar, and faint yellow plaid (NOT a Scottish tartan). I've been trying to decide what to do with it, and I'm left wondering if there's any way I could possibly use it for 18th century wear. Now, I know dupioni is not a period fabric for the 18th century, but this is one of those ones with minimal slubs that aren't really very apparent. I've used a striped dupioni similar to this in weight and appearance for a Regency dress, and I just love the weight and texture -- light and crisp. Of course, since I'm not using period fabric, I suppose I don't need to worry about whether the fabric's appearance is period -- but I'd like to try! I know striped fabric was tres popular in the 1770s and 1780s, but I'm not so sure about plaid. There's a scan of the fabric at http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/philly6.jpg . The widest of the dark purple stripes is 1 1/4", while the widest of the fainter, crossways stripes are 1 1/2". The narrower stripes are anywhere between 1/8" to 1/2". I have seen one 18th century dress in a plaid, by which I mean colored stripes going at perpendicular angles to each other -- it's at the Kyoto Costume Institute and is pictured in _Revolution in Fashion_ and in the new _Fashion_ book. I've put a scan up temporarily at http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/plaid.jpg . This dress, however, has much narrower stripes than my fabric. Now what I'm wondering is: A. Has anyone seen a plaid (colored stripes at perpendicular angles) in any other dress during the 18th century -- something in a museum, a painting, etc.? and B. Do those of you who care to guess, think that I would be TOTALLY stretching by using this fabric for a robe a la francaise or anglaise? I'm probably going to have to admit defeat and use this fabric for an 1830s or 40s dress, but I thought I'd try to enlist some help first in deluding myself that this fabric could be used for the mid- to late-18th century. (I probably should just make myself a lot of margaritas and start cutting, and then I can claim it was the alcohol that made me do it!). Hopefully, Kendra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 00:36:35 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16212 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:36:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h155c2tv008448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h155c1tR023354; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h155b7tR023091 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m93.in-tch.com [216.166.191.93]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h155KFr07076 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:20:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E40A331.5F4BBBC5@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait References: <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030204120827.00a006f0@mail.attbi.com> <4.3.1.2.20030204134248.00cf0740@mail.frys.com> <3.0.6.32.20030204195638.00e34220@pop.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 22:37:53 -0700 Status: RO There's an embroidered partlet for a child in Ashelford...."Dress in the Age of Elizabeth I," p. 79. And there are the numerous textual references, of course....and, IIRC, a fair number of them date from a time when I don't recall seeing "external" partlets in paintings.... --sue Margo Anderson wrote: > > At 10:36 PM 02/04/2003 -0500, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > Partlets are tied on atop everything. > > Well, we can't tell that they always are, can we? There are some portraits > that are obviously seperate partlets, becasue they are worn tied or pinned > on top of the other layers, but just as many or more show a garment which > could be a full shirt, or could be a seperate partlet with its edges > tucked/pinned/tied inside the edge of the bodice neckline. There's no way > to tell. There is good evidence for partlets and sleeves that were sperate > garments, but matching, because they show up in inventories, but as far as > I know none have survived. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 01:04:33 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16305 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 01:04:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15662tv010045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15661tR001713; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1565HtR001530 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.21.) id 6.1a0.104aa5f0 (4320) for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 01:05:09 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a0.104aa5f0.2b720394@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] plaid in 18th c.? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1a0.104aa5f0.2b720394_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10629 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 01:05:08 EST Status: RO --part1_1a0.104aa5f0.2b720394_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That Kyoto dress is the only plaid silk dress I've seen in the 18th century. I too have some silk taffeta that is a plaid but very small with a definite horizontal feeling. In yellow and Carolina blue and off white. From a distance it looks like a textured golden color with blue in it. I wanted to do something 18th century with it. Anyway, apart from the Kyoto dress, all I've seen is window pane or checks. Your fabric looks very 19th century to me. Couldn't do a 49's thingie out of it? --part1_1a0.104aa5f0.2b720394_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That Kyoto dress is the only plaid silk dress I've seen in the 18= th century. I too have some silk taffeta that is a plaid but very small with= a definite horizontal feeling. In yellow and Carolina blue and off white. F= rom a distance it looks like a textured golden color with blue in it. I want= ed to do something 18th century with it.

Anyway, apart from the Kyoto dress, all I've seen is window pane or checks.<= BR>
Your fabric looks very 19th century to me. Couldn't do a 49's thingie out of= it? --part1_1a0.104aa5f0.2b720394_boundary-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 01:09:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16314 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 01:09:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h156B1tv010222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h156B0tR003172; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.plugit.com (mail2.plugit.com [66.210.223.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h156APtR003007 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:10:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.221.207] by mail2.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AAD0527B00EA; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:10:24 -0600 Received: from penny [68.57.138.39] by costumegallery.com (SMTPD32-7.06) id AAD118AD0260; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:10:25 -0600 Message-ID: <00a001c2ccdd$38bf6020$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. Subject: [h-cost] A BIG Makeover Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 01:10:02 -0500 Status: RO First off, I am sorry for the cross-posts, but the following will explain... Over the next couple of months The Costume Gallery's Research Library www.costumegallery.com/research.htm will be receiving a major makeover. If you go to an area or webpage and get a message that says "Closed for a Makeover" please be patient. We are adding several new areas and articles to the library. To make room for the additions, we need to make a huge overhaul to make it easier to search. Currently we have 18 sets of A Years in Fashion on the web scattered between the Library and the homepage of the Gallery. When the makeover is complete, you will see everything organized and easy to search on the library . We are shooting for a completion date of the end of April. The first change you will notice later this week, will be a new design to the books on the library shelves. Shashy, our new graphics intern, has made all new book and shelf graphics. The library shelves will increase from three to four. When we pull up the new graphics for the front of the Library this week, the fourth shelf, "Search by Category" will not be functional. So this is your fair warning... please, please, do not email that they are not working. We know about it and are working as fast as we can. I will try to give you a weekly progress report of the areas that we are temporally closing down on the Gallery's newsletter at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumegallery/ . Once we do close down an area for makeover, we will not pull that area back up until the whole makeover of the Library is complete. If you have linked or bookmarked any of these pages in the Gallery, you do not need to change it. All the URLs will remain the same when the area's makeover is complete. We are excited about the makeover. I have been wanting to do it for a long time. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom http://www.costumegallery.com http://www.costumeclassroom.com http://www.onlinecostumeball.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 02:33:28 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA01985 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 02:33:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h157Y5tv013735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:34:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h157Y0tR025751; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:34:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h157XQtR025560 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:33:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from adsl-67-121-121-158.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO angelap3a8d978) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.121.121.158 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2003 07:33:25 -0000 Message-ID: <005d01c2cce8$e5533630$9e797943@angelap3a8d978> From: "Cabbage Rose" To: References: <00a001c2ccdd$38bf6020$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A BIG Makeover MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:33:36 -0800 Status: RO Awesome Penny! Sounds like fun, I can't wait to check something "out" a ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:10 PM Subject: [h-cost] A BIG Makeover > First off, I am sorry for the cross-posts, but the following will explain... > > Over the next couple of months The Costume Gallery's Research Library > www.costumegallery.com/research.htm will be receiving a major makeover. If > you go to an area or webpage and get a message that says "Closed for a > Makeover" please be patient. We are adding several new areas and articles > to the library. To make room for the additions, we need to make a huge > overhaul to make it easier to search. Currently we have 18 sets of A Years > in Fashion on the web scattered between the Library and the homepage of the > Gallery. When the makeover is complete, you will see everything organized > and easy to search on the library . We are shooting for a completion date > of the end of April. > > The first change you will notice later this week, will be a new design to > the books on the library shelves. Shashy, our new graphics intern, has made > all new book and shelf graphics. The library shelves will increase from > three to four. When we pull up the new graphics for the front of the > Library this week, the fourth shelf, "Search by Category" will not be > functional. So this is your fair warning... please, please, do not email > that they are not working. We know about it and are working as fast as we > can. > > I will try to give you a weekly progress report of the areas that we are > temporally closing down on the Gallery's newsletter at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumegallery/ . Once we do close down an > area for makeover, we will not pull that area back up until the whole > makeover of the Library is complete. If you have linked or bookmarked any > of these pages in the Gallery, you do not need to change it. All the URLs > will remain the same when the area's makeover is complete. > > We are excited about the makeover. I have been wanting to do it for a long > time. > > Penny Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom > http://www.costumegallery.com > http://www.costumeclassroom.com > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 04:24:30 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA19192 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 04:24:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h159O3tv017817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 02:24:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h159O0tR022769; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 02:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h159N9tR022546 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 02:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp03-080.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.122.80]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F4019FF59 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:23:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3E40D807.8030702@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [h-cost] Medieval patterns on my website Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:23:19 +0100 Status: RO Hi, I've been working on my website again. I made a Dutch website and I put some medieval patterns on my website. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Patterns/Patterns.html Please let me know what you think of them. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 05:25:41 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28743 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:25:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15AR6tv020279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 03:27:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15AR2tR004850; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 03:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15AQGtR004675 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 03:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from thelema.frys.com ([66.125.127.162]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.6 (built Oct 18 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H9T00GH4ZKKTG@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 02:24:22 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <4.3.1.2.20030205022319.00d84270@mail.frys.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] watch this space Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 02:23:40 -0800 Status: RO www.funstuft.com Kayta //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 08:47:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31316 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:47:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15DmGtv027275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:48:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15Dm6tR024771; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15DlctR024652 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:47:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18gPtn-0006iG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 05:47:37 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait Message-ID: <000b01c2cd1d$2677db50$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <3E40A331.5F4BBBC5@in-tch.com> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:47:39 -0700 Status: RO You have to look pretty closely sometimes because they are often of similar (or same) color as the gown. Here is one: http://www.geocities.com/athens/forum/9194/lady-black.jpg There is another of Mary Tudor in red satin with a black partlet, but I am having trouble finding it on the web right now. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 09:53:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31795 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:53:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15EqUuP000863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:54:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15DxRtR027803; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15DwEtR027510 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:58:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18gQ3y-0002dT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 05:58:06 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait Message-ID: <000c01c2cd1e$9e0bed90$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <000b01c2cd1d$2677db50$6601a8c0@mycomputer> Importance: Normal Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:58:09 -0700 Status: RO Whoops, forgot to repeat the message I was replying to. Someone had said they had not seen evidence in portraiture where you could see partlets tied on the outside. Here is another: http://www.lepg.org/cook.jpg Not a stretch to propose that something like this might be worn on the inside over a chemise. As Margo pointed out, if you look closely at the Snakerbor portrait, you can see 'something' that looks like a chemise under the item in question. Doubtful that someone would have worn two chemises, so a shirt or partlet with sleeves is reasonable. But of course, we really don't know. Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:48 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait You have to look pretty closely sometimes because they are often of similar (or same) color as the gown. Here is one: http://www.geocities.com/athens/forum/9194/lady-black.jpg There is another of Mary Tudor in red satin with a black partlet, but I am having trouble finding it on the web right now. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 10:31:08 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32064 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:31:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15FW6tv003562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15FW1ag003618; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15FVcag003255 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:31:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m242.in-tch.com [216.166.191.242]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h15FEir05169 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:14:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3E412E87.63747920@in-tch.com> From: Sue Clemenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Montage;Touch America} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] ruff starching update References: <3E3E8C76.44520B58@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: mooncat@in-tch.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 08:32:23 -0700 Status: RO Hey, cool! Thanks for sharing, Sue (who will, no doubt, go back to the 16th c. after she finishes her current fling with the 14th ;-D) Melanie Schuessler wrote: > > Greetings, the List! > > I have been off-list for a while (since Christmas), trying to catch up > on the accumulated mail, so I don't know what you all have been > discussing, but here's a little something out of the blue. > > I have updated my how-to-starch-a-ruff page to reflect the new ruff I've > made (this one attached to a shirt) and the new techniques I tried (or > was forced to develop!). > > You can see just the update at > http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff5.html > > Or you can look at the whole How to Starch a Ruff sequence (with the > update at the end) starting at > http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html > > Cheers, > Melanie Schuessler > > http://www.faucet.net/costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 10:52:58 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32170 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:52:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15Fr2tv005566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15Fr1ag013366; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15Fqjag013258 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:52:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7163E47FF71 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:52:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c2cd2e$b4f54dc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [h-cost] Gilt Pearl Purl # 3 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:53:20 +0100 Status: RO Hello the list. I am piecing together my suit. I have 5 yards of gilt pearl purl # 3 and i would like to use this as piping the edges of the jacket, along the collar, cuffs and jacket sides. How should i do this? Should i whip stitch it on? Wich thread would you use? Gold thread or couching silk? Any advises most welcome! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 10:59:18 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32205 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:59:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15G09tv005987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:00:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15G03ag016873; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h15Fx3ag016289 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:59:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030205155856.84246.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 15:58:56 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gilt Pearl Purl # 3 To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000d01c2cd2e$b4f54dc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:58:56 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hello the list. > I am piecing together my suit. > I have 5 yards of gilt pearl purl # 3 and i would like to use this as piping > the edges of the jacket, along the collar, cuffs and jacket sides. > How should i do this? Should i whip stitch it on? Wich thread would you use? > Gold thread or couching silk? > Any advises most welcome! Usually purl is always sewn on as small pieces and then the silk thread is threaded through the piece of purl. It would be a terrible lot of work though... Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 11:09:10 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32309 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:09:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GA2tv006917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GA0ag022137; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15G98ag021667 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id ED2DF4802B3 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:09:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004701c2cd30$ffd4b6d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <3E40D807.8030702@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval patterns on my website MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:09:44 +0100 Status: RO Dear Deredere I think it looks lovely. Very easy understanding and very precisely made. Congratulations! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 10:23 AM Subject: [h-cost] Medieval patterns on my website > Hi, > > I've been working on my website again. > I made a Dutch website and I put some medieval patterns on my website. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Patterns/Patterns.html > > Please let me know what you think of them. > Greetings, > Deredere > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 11:12:04 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32319 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:12:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GD2tv007152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GD1ag023765; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from web40903.mail.yahoo.com (web40903.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h15GC0ag023117 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:12:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030205161154.88634.qmail@web40903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.104.32.34] by web40903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 08:11:54 PST From: Tasha McGann To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <20030205153201.3607.90543.Mailman@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [h-cost] Re: Medieval patterns on my website Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:11:54 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Greetings Deredere, > I put some medieval > patterns on my website. > Please let me know what you think of them. Thanks for sharing! I think your patterns make lots of sense, as syntheses of extant tunics from around the Medieval world (they remind me a bit of Danish tunics mixed with Turkish). And you can't beat your conservation of fabric! I want to ask a question which I'm sure you can answer from experience: Why must the gores be sewn together hypotenuse-to-hypotenuse? It seems like you'd have a greater chance of sagging in the middle, along the bias-to-bias join than you would if you sewed the two gore pieces together grain-to-grain and then attached the hypotenuse sides to the straight-grain tunic pieces. I've done this latter method a number of times with so-called St. Louis tunics as well as Kragelund and Bocksten-style tunics and it's worked well enough in practice for me (and for the wearer, my husband). Have you had a different experience? Thanks for any elaboration/information in advance, -Tasha __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 11:17:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32336 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:17:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GH4tv007519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:17:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GH1ag025781; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GGkag025645 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:16:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 281194800FD for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:16:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005101c2cd32$11577b80$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <20030205155856.84246.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gilt Pearl Purl # 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:17:24 +0100 Status: RO Dear Nicole. Gilt Pearl Purl is not hollow inside! You think of rough purl wich is . Oh no i would not dare to use the hollow stuff, and my pearl purl is very solid and stiff. All the rough purl i have in the embroidery is very troubblesom as it is, i have to be very carefull in my movements that the rough purl not should tangle into the embroidery on the cuffs. Therefore i have not used rough purl on the cuffs, and not on the embroidery in the back vent either, it would be impossible to sit in it then. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gilt Pearl Purl # 3 > --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hello the list. > > I am piecing together my suit. > > I have 5 yards of gilt pearl purl # 3 and i would like to use this as piping > > the edges of the jacket, along the collar, cuffs and jacket sides. > > How should i do this? Should i whip stitch it on? Wich thread would you use? > > Gold thread or couching silk? > > Any advises most welcome! > > Usually purl is always sewn on as small pieces and then the silk thread is > threaded through the piece of purl. It would be a terrible lot of work > though... > > Nicole > > ===== > Nicole Kipar M.A. > URL: http://www.kipar.org/ > Email: nicole@kipar.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 11:19:37 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32358 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:19:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GK2tv007769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GK1ag027374; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15GJwag027340 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B08B648013B for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:19:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005701c2cd32$83ae1cc0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <3E3E8C76.44520B58@faucet.net> <3E412E87.63747920@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ruff starching update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:20:35 +0100 Status: RO Dear Melanie. It is such a joy to se your lovely work. My hands is itching to make a ruff :-) Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ruff starching update > Hey, cool! > Thanks for sharing, > Sue (who will, no doubt, go back to the 16th c. after she finishes her > current fling with the 14th ;-D) > > Melanie Schuessler wrote: > > > > Greetings, the List! > > > > I have been off-list for a while (since Christmas), trying to catch up > > on the accumulated mail, so I don't know what you all have been > > discussing, but here's a little something out of the blue. > > > > I have updated my how-to-starch-a-ruff page to reflect the new ruff I've > > made (this one attached to a shirt) and the new techniques I tried (or > > was forced to develop!). > > > > You can see just the update at > > http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff5.html > > > > Or you can look at the whole How to Starch a Ruff sequence (with the > > update at the end) starting at > > http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html > > > > Cheers, > > Melanie Schuessler > > > > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 12:17:11 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32651 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:17:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15HI7tv013223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:18:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15HI0ag001750; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15HH8ag001100 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h15HH7o24422 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:17:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030205085654.00b35cc0@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie In-Reply-To: <002c01c2ccc9$0ce4a8c0$2a0077d8@pavilion> References: <200302050310.h153ADY08437@adalia.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_4075828==.ALT" Subject: [h-cost] Birch bark Re: 16th c. dyes Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 09:17:29 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_4075828==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Lisa, It's not a dye that I'm aware of being used by the industry within the early modern timeframe. However, my focus on dyes is mainly the dyes, processes, and the economics of the industry. I'll admit to having scant knowledge of craft dyeing so it may be out there, it just hasn't shown up in my little world >; ) Drea is working on translating yet another dye manual with what seems to be a broader scope of materials. Hopefully she'll pipe up with an answer as well. At 07:45 PM 2/4/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Thank you very much Gwyn. May I ask if you have ever come across a dye >receipe using birch bark in the 16th century? > >Lisa Gwyn Carnegie University of California, Davis --=====================_4075828==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Lisa,

It's not a dye that I'm aware of being used by the industry within the early modern timeframe. However, my focus on dyes is mainly the dyes, processes, and the economics of the industry. I'll admit to having scant knowledge of craft dyeing so it may be out there, it just hasn't shown up in my little world >; )

Drea is working on translating yet another dye manual with what seems to be a broader scope of materials. Hopefully she'll pipe up with an answer as well.

At 07:45 PM 2/4/2003 -0800, you wrote:
Thank you very much Gwyn.  May I ask if you have ever come across a dye
receipe using birch bark in the 16th century?

Lisa

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis --=====================_4075828==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 12:24:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32713 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:24:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15HP5tv014191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15HP1ag007163; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15HORag006647 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:24:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpe-24-221-49-58.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.49.58] helo=mycomputer) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18gTHd-0004MU-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 09:24:25 -0800 From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: Message-ID: <000001c2cd3b$71620910$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000c01c2cd1e$9e0bed90$6601a8c0@mycomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [h-cost] Experience washing fake fur? Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:24:29 -0700 Status: RO Have any of you ever washed fake fur? I have a 'pelt' that has fairly long hair with the standard 'knit' back which looks and feels like it has sizing in it.. I want to pre-wash before cutting it out. It came from one of those tailoring end stores and has no washing instructions. I thought washing it might soften it as well? Any thoughts on this will be appreciated. It must be a pretty good fake......my husband, who trapped as teenager (to make money-I guess newspaper routes didn't cut it with him), had to stop, touch and fondle it to be sure it wasn't real! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 13:22:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00777 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:22:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15IE2tv021878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15IE01b012118; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h15IDM1b011582 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:13:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20030205181316.58804.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.237.15.43] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:13:16 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experience washing fake fur? To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000001c2cd3b$71620910$6601a8c0@mycomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:13:16 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Have any of you ever washed fake fur? I have a 'pelt' that has fairly > long hair with the standard 'knit' back which looks and feels like it > has sizing in it.. I want to pre-wash before cutting it out. It came > from one of those tailoring end stores and has no washing instructions. > I thought washing it might soften it as well? You say it is good fur, so that makes it easier. I have good fake fur on a histpricised coat/cloak I wear to work, and first of all it never shrank or anything, and I washed it three times already in the machine on wool cycle. No problem, the fur is still as fluffy and soft and lovely and silky, it hasn't changed in the slightest. Nicole ===== Nicole Kipar M.A. URL: http://www.kipar.org/ Email: nicole@kipar.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 13:55:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01010 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:55:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15Iu5tv000806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15Iu21b011657; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop15.ucdavis.edu (pop15.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15ItA1b011065 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:55:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from RECEPTION.ucdavis.edu ([169.228.162.82]) by pop15.ucdavis.edu (8.11.6/8.11.0/IT4.6.2) with ESMTP id h15ItAo22465 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:55:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030205102947.00b5ae38@blue.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: gcarnegi@blue.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gwyn Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th c. dyes article has a new home In-Reply-To: <3E409B1E.F6393F50@faucet.net> References: <200302050310.h153ADY08437@adalia.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_9958687==.ALT" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:55:31 -0800 Status: RO --=====================_9958687==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:03 PM 2/4/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Gwyndolynn Carnegie wrote: > > > > I got around to migrating the article to a new host so here it is: > > http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/article/article.html I received a few emails about broken links on my article site. There should be no active link either on Recreating History icon or the Natural Dyes icon. The magazine went out of print a few years back. If anyone knows if they are back in business, please forward me their information and I'll insert a link again. I thought I'd add some images of the dye returns from the recipes and I discovered that I have way too much silk and wool floss in certain colors left over from my initial project. I suppose I'll sell off the extras but how much to put in a skein? The floss is 6 stranded and I was working in 20 yds skeins. 20 yds is a lot even for a Bjarne-sized project. Do any of you embellishment pros have a recommendation as to what to cut down the jumbo skeins too? Gwyn Carnegie University of California, Davis --=====================_9958687==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 11:03 PM 2/4/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Gwyndolynn Carnegie wrote:
>
> I got around to migrating the article to a new host so here it is:
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/article/article.html

I received a few emails about broken links on my article site. There should be no active link either on Recreating History icon or the Natural Dyes icon.  The magazine went out of print a few years back. If anyone knows if they are back in business, please forward me their information and I'll insert a link again.

I thought I'd add some images of the dye returns from the recipes and I discovered that I have way too much silk and wool floss in certain colors left over from my initial project. I suppose I'll sell off the extras but how much to put in a skein?  The floss is 6 stranded and I was working in 20 yds skeins. 20 yds is a lot even for a Bjarne-sized project. Do any of you embellishment pros have a recommendation as to what to cut down the jumbo skeins too?

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis --=====================_9958687==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 13:55:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01014 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:55:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15IuTtv000874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:56:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15IuS1b011923; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:56:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f86.pav2.hotmail.com [64.4.37.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15ItJ1b011093 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:55:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:54:27 -0800 Received: from 12.231.218.121 by pv2fd.pav2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:54:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.231.218.121] From: "Jennifer Sena" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experience washing fake fur? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2003 18:54:27.0069 (UTC) FILETIME=[01C2FAD0:01C2CD48] Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:54:26 -0800 Status: RO >Have any of you ever washed fake fur? It generallyt washes wonderfully, even the fairly cheap stuff, but never put it in the dryer. My purple 2" fur got tufty from being dried. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 14:19:07 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01234 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:19:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15JKItv004143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15JK1MN008191; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:20:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15JJ1MN007612 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B1418262AB8 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:18:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c2cd4b$8b4cc260$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: References: <000901c2ccd5$43eb0010$befc8218@hopperflop2> Subject: Re: [h-cost] plaid in 18th c.? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:19:45 +0100 Status: RO Dear Kendra. I have not seen any other dresses, portraits with plaid than this example from Kyoto. However i dont think that people should limit their creativity because there is no evidence of examples similar. Dupioni is much used - even with reenactors, and i dont think it looks bad either. A Robe A'Langlaise would be lovely! I would say go for it!!! Be carefull if you want to make a Robe Francaise because you gets very surprised every time - how much fabric you need for it. Especially if you should have a matching skirt for it! A Robe Anglaise could be used with a similar matching skirt. But please dont hessitate with the Margaritas!!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kendra Van Cleave" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:13 AM Subject: [h-cost] plaid in 18th c.? > Okay, so I recently bought 9 yards of beautiful silk dupioni in a purple, > white, lavendar, and faint yellow plaid (NOT a Scottish tartan). I've been > trying to decide what to do with it, and I'm left wondering if there's any > way I could possibly use it for 18th century wear. > > Now, I know dupioni is not a period fabric for the 18th century, but this is > one of those ones with minimal slubs that aren't really very apparent. I've > used a striped dupioni similar to this in weight and appearance for a > Regency dress, and I just love the weight and texture -- light and crisp. > Of course, since I'm not using period fabric, I suppose I don't need to > worry about whether the fabric's appearance is period -- but I'd like to > try! I know striped fabric was tres popular in the 1770s and 1780s, but I'm > not so sure about plaid. > > There's a scan of the fabric at > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/philly6.jpg . The widest of the dark > purple stripes is 1 1/4", while the widest of the fainter, crossways stripes > are 1 1/2". The narrower stripes are anywhere between 1/8" to 1/2". > > I have seen one 18th century dress in a plaid, by which I mean colored > stripes going at perpendicular angles to each other -- it's at the Kyoto > Costume Institute and is pictured in _Revolution in Fashion_ and in the new > _Fashion_ book. I've put a scan up temporarily at > http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/plaid.jpg . This dress, however, has > much narrower stripes than my fabric. > > Now what I'm wondering is: A. Has anyone seen a plaid (colored stripes at > perpendicular angles) in any other dress during the 18th century -- > something in a museum, a painting, etc.? and B. Do those of you who care > to guess, think that I would be TOTALLY stretching by using this fabric for > a robe a la francaise or anglaise? > > I'm probably going to have to admit defeat and use this fabric for an 1830s > or 40s dress, but I thought I'd try to enlist some help first in deluding > myself that this fabric could be used for the mid- to late-18th century. (I > probably should just make myself a lot of margaritas and start cutting, and > then I can claim it was the alcohol that made me do it!). > > Hopefully, > > Kendra > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-admin@indra.com Wed Feb 5 14:55:19 2003 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01430 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:55:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15Ju2tv008282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost.indra.com [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15Ju1MN000503; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h15JtZMN029985 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-fp03-190.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.122.190]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C0119FC13 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:55:28 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3E416C3F.8020806@kabelfoon.nl> From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Medieval patterns on my website References: <20030205161154.88634.qmail@web40903.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050202070409070307040904" Sender: h-costume-admin@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-admin@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:55:43 +0100 Status: RO --------------050202070409070307040904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Tasha McGann wrote: >Thanks for sharing! I think your patterns make lots of >sense, as syntheses of extant tunics from around the >Medieval world (they remind me a bit of Danish tunics >mixed with Turkish). And you can't beat your >conservation of fabric! > They are not from surviving garments but patterns from Tuniks I made with just the fabrick that I had. And tried to piece them together in medieval style. I think I 'll put that on my website... now it looks like they are perfect examples of medieval tuniks. Early medieval is not the time I am most interested in. I put these patterns on my website because I was asked if I had any patterns. It was someone from a teater group who wanted some medieval patterns for there lowbudged costumes. >I want to ask a question which I'm sure you can answer >from experience: Why must the gores be sewn together >hypotenuse-to-hypotenuse? It seems like you'd have a >greater chance of sagging in the middle, along the >bias-to-bias join than you would if you sewed the two >gore pieces together grain-to-grain and then attached >the hypotenuse sides to the straight-grain tunic >pieces. I've done this latter method a number of times >with so-called St. Louis tunics as well as Kragelund >and Bocksten-style tunics and it's worked well enough >in practice for me (and for the wearer, my husband). >Have you had a different experience? > It depends on the fabrick but often when I pin a straith grain to a bias cut piece I end up with the bias piece stretching. And sometimes after sowing it together ( with sowingmachine) it wrinkels. But, maby it is just me. Greetings, Deredere >Thanks for any elaboration/information in advance, > >-Tasha > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > --------------050202070409070307040904 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

Tasha McGann wrote:

   
  
Thanks for sharing! I think your patterns make lots of
sense, as syntheses of extant tunics from around the
Medieval world (they remind me a bit of Danish tunics
mixed with Turkish). And you can't beat your
conservation of fabric!

 

 They are not from surviving garments but patterns from Tuniks I made with 
just the fabrick that I had.

 And tried to piece them together in medieval style. 

 I think I 'll put that on my website... now it looks like they are perfect
examples of medieval tuniks.

Early medieval is not the time I am most interested in.

I put these patterns on my website because I was asked if I had any patterns.

It was someone from a teater group who wanted some medieval patterns for
there lowbudged costumes.

 

 

   
  
I want to ask a question which I'm sure you can answer
from experience: Why must the gores be sewn together
hypotenuse-to-hypotenuse? It seems like you'd have a
greater chance of sagging in the middle, along the
bias-to-bias join than you would if you sewed the two
gore pieces together grain-to-grain and then attached
the hypotenuse sides to the straight-grain tunic
pieces. I've done this latter method a number of times
with so-called St. Louis tunics as well as Kragelund
and Bocksten-style tunics and it's worked well enough
in practice for me (and for the wearer, my husband).
Have you had a different experience?

 

 It depends on the fabrick but often when I pin a straith grain to a bias 
cut piece I end up with the bias piece stretching.

 And sometimes after sowing it together ( with sowingmachine) it wrinkels.

But, maby it is just me.



Greetings,

        Deredere

 

   
  
Thanks for any elaboration/information in advance,

-Tasha

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From: MaryAnn Jones 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experience washing fake fur?
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the experience that I had back in my teddy bear making phase was that it 
washed fine, just make sure your lint filter is clean and that you don't 
use too high a heat.
maryann
ps.  sorry for hijacking your picture question, no one seems to have gotten 
back to it.

At 10:24 AM 2/5/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Have any of you ever washed fake fur?  I have a 'pelt' that has fairly
>long hair with the standard 'knit' back which looks and feels like it
>has sizing in it..  I want to pre-wash before cutting it out.  It came
>from one of those tailoring end stores and has no washing instructions.
>I thought washing it might soften it as well?
>
>Any thoughts on this will be appreciated.
>
>It must be a pretty good fake......my husband, who trapped as teenager
>(to make money-I guess newspaper routes didn't cut it with him), had to
>stop, touch and fondle it to be sure it wasn't real!
>
>Sg
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 15:59:59 2003
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birch bark Re: 16th c. dyes
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030205085654.00b35cc0@blue.ucdavis.edu>
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:00:14 -0500 (EST)
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I've never seen any reference to this in the 16th century, in the sources
I've looked at.

Sorry. :(

Drea

On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote:

>
> Lisa,
>
> It's not a dye that I'm aware of being used by the industry within the
> early modern timeframe. However, my focus on dyes is mainly the dyes,
> processes, and the economics of the industry. I'll admit to having scant
> knowledge of craft dyeing so it may be out there, it just hasn't shown up
> in my little world >; )
>
> Drea is working on translating yet another dye manual with what seems to be
> a broader scope of materials. Hopefully she'll pipe up with an answer as well.
>
> At 07:45 PM 2/4/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >Thank you very much Gwyn.  May I ask if you have ever come across a dye
> >receipe using birch bark in the 16th century?
> >
> >Lisa
>
> Gwyn Carnegie
> University of California, Davis

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From: Meagn Maguire 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th c. dyes article has a new home
To: "h-costume@mail.indra.com" 
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>>I received a few emails about broken links on my article site. There should be
no active link either on Recreating History icon<<

Au contraire.  There is a really uhm, interesting link where the Recreating
History link is listed...  You might want to deactivate it.  

Meagn (at work)
TudorLdy@aol.com
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OK no more correcting code at 4 in the morning LOL!
I'll fix that first thing once I get home. I had thought everyone was 
hitting the icon and couldn't figure out what they were seeing.

At 01:02 PM 2/5/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >>I received a few emails about broken links on my article site. There 
> should be
>no active link either on Recreating History icon<<
>
>Au contraire.  There is a really uhm, interesting link where the Recreating
>History link is listed...  You might want to deactivate it.
>
>Meagn (at work)
>TudorLdy@aol.com

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis
   
--=====================_18060843==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"





OK no more correcting code at 4 in the morning LOL!

I'll fix that first thing once I get home. I had thought everyone was
hitting the icon and couldn't figure out what they were seeing.


At 01:02 PM 2/5/2003 -0800, you wrote:


>>I received a few emails
about broken links on my article site. There should be

no active link either on Recreating History icon<<


Au contraire.  There is a really uhm, interesting link where the
Recreating

History link is listed...  You might want to deactivate it. 



Meagn (at work)

TudorLdy@aol.com





Gwyn Carnegie

University of California at Davis 

 

--=====================_18060843==.ALT--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 16:15:18 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th c. dyes article has a new home
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Good god! *ROTFL*

Well, I guess naked chicks are somewhat historical....

Drea

On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Meagn Maguire wrote:

> >>I received a few emails about broken links on my article site. There should be
> no active link either on Recreating History icon<<
>
> Au contraire.  There is a really uhm, interesting link where the Recreating
> History link is listed...  You might want to deactivate it.
>
> Meagn (at work)
> TudorLdy@aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 16:15:26 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th c. dyes article has a new home
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:15:32 -0500 (EST)
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Good god! *ROTFL*

Well, I guess naked chicks are somewhat historical....

Drea

On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Meagn Maguire wrote:

> >>I received a few emails about broken links on my article site. There should be
> no active link either on Recreating History icon<<
>
> Au contraire.  There is a really uhm, interesting link where the Recreating
> History link is listed...  You might want to deactivate it.
>
> Meagn (at work)
> TudorLdy@aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:42:32 +0000
Status: RO

Curtains are merely costumes in their potential state.

Anyway, I have cafe hooks on my Tudor skirt-holder, to hoist up my skirt 
like Holbein's "English lady walking".  I couldn't afford the fancy 
napkin (serviette?) holders which were the alternative.

Hardware is your friend!

Jean


Jennifer Sena  wrote
>I was cruising through notions and came across these cafe hooks.  I 
>just thought "In lightweight fabrics, I could sew those in my skirt for 
>poofing!!" I just had to share my twilight zone moment.  Nothing is 
>safe anymore, I will wear curtains if I want to!!!  (please ignore the 
>maniacal cackles...adjusting insulin ratios makes me a little batty)
>
>http://64.4.36.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=202a534d98460d4ae7606db25
>cb54a43&lat=1044326159&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2edenverfabrics%2eco
>m%2fpages%2fstatic%2fball%2dfringe%2ehtm
>
>Jennifer Sena
>Distant Designs
>http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi
>
>I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!
>

-- 
Jean Waddie
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] plaid in 18th c.?
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:13:01 +0000
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Kendra Van Cleave  wrote
>Okay, so I recently bought 9 yards of beautiful silk dupioni in a purple,
>white, lavendar, and faint yellow plaid (NOT a Scottish tartan).  I've been
>trying to decide what to do with it, and I'm left wondering if there's any
>way I could possibly use it for 18th century wear.
>

>I have seen one 18th century dress in a plaid, by which I mean colored
>stripes going at perpendicular angles to each other -- it's at the Kyoto
>Costume Institute and is pictured in _Revolution in Fashion_ and in the new
>_Fashion_ book.  I've put a scan up temporarily at
>http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/plaid.jpg .  This dress, however, has
>much narrower stripes than my fabric.
>
>Now what I'm wondering is:  A.  Has anyone seen a plaid (colored stripes at
>perpendicular angles) in any other dress during the 18th century --
>something in a museum, a painting, etc.?  and B.  Do those of you who care
>to guess, think that I would be TOTALLY stretching by using this fabric for
>a robe a la francaise or anglaise?
>
>I'm probably going to have to admit defeat and use this fabric for an 1830s
>or 40s dress, but I thought I'd try to enlist some help first in deluding
>myself that this fabric could be used for the mid- to late-18th century.  (I
>probably should just make myself a lot of margaritas and start cutting, and
>then I can claim it was the alcohol that made me do it!).
>
>Hopefully,
>
>Kendra
>

Yes! Yes! Do it!  It looks perfect for being quite outrageous, which 
would be wonderful for a robe a la anglaise.  Big hair and a big hat to 
balance the wide stripes.

Jean
-- 
Jean Waddie
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 17:19:26 2003
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From: "Five Rivers" 
To: "Historic Costume List" 
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Subject: [h-cost] rough and smooth purl
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:17:28 -0500
Status: RO

    Real metal threads are very familiar to me. I use copious quantities in
my embroideries.

    Just for the record, according to Kreinik, one of the world's leading
experts on real metal threads, bullion purls are: 'Wire-like metal that is
wound on a mandrill to give a close, spring-like appearance to the yarn.
Small pieces are then cut from the main body and a thread is passed through
the hollow core to fasten the bullion to the work.'

    Both the rough and smooth purls, which I'm looking at and working with
(and sell) as I write, are hollow.

    Jaceron, also known as pearl purl, is: 'A heavy wire of gold or silver
coiled to give a bead-like appearance. It is generally used for
outlining.'While it is a more solid-looking bullion thread, it is in fact
hollow as well. It is perhaps a jaceron you have, not in fact a purl.

    To secure any of these threads to a ground fabric the needle and
couching thread, as another poster quite rightly stated, should be passed
through the centre of the bullion in order to keep it secure.

    If in fact you have a solid metal wire, I would question the
authenticity of the thread to my supplier, were I you. And just for the
record, I haven't as yet seen any 18th century garments piped with real
gold. Used in the main embroidery yes, in simply stunning quantities, but
not as piping. Always pleased to be shown otherwise.

Regards
Lorina
Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
supplies
(519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org  email:
info@5rivers.org


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 17:25:46 2003
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From: "Karen Root" 
To: 
References: <000401c2cc82$004fa6b0$6601a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel
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> Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by
> Quesnel?
> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm

Unfortunately I can't help you with the picture, but thanks for the
wonderful link.  On English Nobles 4 there is a painting of a pregnant lady
towards the end of her term and I am always curious as to how the pregnant
women wear the fashions of the time, what with stiff corsets and boned
bodices.

K
-----
www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 19:41:46 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] RE:real metal threads-att. Lorina was: rough and smooth purl
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How do you clean items with real metal thread?  I am reusing some silk
embroidered with real metal (from India) and it is tarnished in places.
Any suggestions?

Sg


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 20:05:00 2003
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Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
> 
> Dear Melanie.
> It is such a joy to se your lovely work.
> My hands is itching to make a ruff :-)

Thanks to Bjarne and others who wrote nice things to me.  :)

I have thought about how amazing it would be to have a ruff with some of
your fabulous hand-made lace on the edge.  But I must say, Bjarne, that
until I get better at this, I would be simply terrified to starch it! 
The hot iron sticks to the wet starch in the lace, you see, and you have
to gently pull it away before it scorches...eek!

It is nice to dream, however, and if you ever do it yourself, we all
want pictures.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel
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 > Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by
 > Quesnel?
 > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm

It seems likely that no one is answering because no one can find
anything helpful!  This picture is also in Boucher's 20,000 Years of
Fashion, but it's in black and white and not any better than what's
online (in fact the one online may well have been scanned from Boucher).

The Oslo Kunstindustrimuseet, which owns the picture, doesn't seem to
have it online (though I might be missing it, as the site is of course
not in English!).  I suppose you could email them and ask if they would
send you a color picture.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 20:18:34 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: plaid in 18th C.
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:18:03 -0800 (PST)
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Kendra wrote:

Okay, so I recently bought 9 yards of beautiful silk
dupioni in a 
purple,
white, lavendar, and faint yellow plaid (NOT a
Scottish tartan).  I've 
been
trying to decide what to do with it, and I'm left
wondering if there's 
any
way I could possibly use it for 18th century wear.

Now, I know dupioni is not a period fabric for the
18th century, but 
this is
one of those ones with minimal slubs that aren't
really very apparent.  
I've
used a striped dupioni similar to this in weight and
appearance for a
Regency dress, and I just love the weight and texture
-- light and 
crisp.
Of course, since I'm not using period fabric, I
suppose I don't need to
worry about whether the fabric's appearance is period
-- but I'd like 
to
try!  I know striped fabric was tres popular in the
1770s and 1780s, 
but I'm
not so sure about plaid.

There's a scan of the fabric at
http://demode.tweedlebop.com/images/philly6.jpg . 

 

I'm probably going to have to admit defeat and use
this fabric for an 
1830s
or 40s dress, but I thought I'd try to enlist some
help first in 
deluding
myself that this fabric could be used for the mid- to
late-18th 
century.  (I
probably should just make myself a lot of margaritas
and start cutting, 
and
then I can claim it was the alcohol that made me do
it!).


Oh Wow! That is gorgeous! 8-)

OK, maybe it's just me, but it's absolutely screaming
"1850s" to me. I did flip through most of what I have
on historic textiles, and while I found a couple of
examples of plaid fabrics right at the end of the 18th
C., I didn't find any examples that had been made up
into clothing. One was in a textile company's pattern
book, and the other was in a sample book for
furnishing fabrics. Also, both were blue and white, or
blue, white, and red plaids.

Do you like your margaritas with or without salt? ;-)

Dawn



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 20:27:36 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] pregnant ladies was:Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:27:59 -0500
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When I visited England almost 4 years ago, there was a curator (I think
that's what she was...) from the Tate Gallery who was researching
portraiture of pregnant ladies during the Elizabeth era. I don't remember if
she was planning to write a book or not, but I can't imagine going to all of
that work and not publishing something somewhere!

kate

----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Root" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel


> > Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by
> > Quesnel?
> > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm
>
> Unfortunately I can't help you with the picture, but thanks for the
> wonderful link.  On English Nobles 4 there is a painting of a pregnant
lady
> towards the end of her term and I am always curious as to how the pregnant
> women wear the fashions of the time, what with stiff corsets and boned
> bodices.
>
> K
> -----
> www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait
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On Wednesday 05 February 2003 08:58 am, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> Whoops, forgot to repeat the message I was replying to.  Someone had
> said they had not seen evidence in portraiture where you could see
> partlets tied on the outside.
>
> Here is another:  http://www.lepg.org/cook.jpg
>
> Not a stretch to propose that something like this might be worn on the
> inside over a chemise.  


Not at all.  But to propose that someone wore a matched partlet and separate 
sleeves under a bodice?  I'd want to see evidence (such as from a wardrobe 
inventory) of such items before giving that theory too much credence.

>As Margo pointed out, if you look closely at the
> Snakerbor portrait, you can see 'something' that looks like a chemise
> under the item in question.  Doubtful that someone would have worn two
> chemises, so a shirt or partlet with sleeves is reasonable.  But of
> course, we really don't know.
>

Agreed.

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experience washing fake fur?
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:02:15 -0800
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I throw my lighter fake fur cloak in the washer and dryer all the time.
Use a dryer sheet with it. The stuff also takes Scotch-Garding well (be
sure to do this in a well-ventilated area, preferably outside). I'll need
to take my other fake sable one to the cleaners, but that's just because
it is too bulky to fit. :)

If the fur is longish, use a dog brush on it and it will look great.

Arlys

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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] ruff starching update/starching methods
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:06:32 -0800
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Melanie wrote:

> I have thought about how amazing it would be to have a ruff with some of
> your fabulous hand-made lace on the edge.  But I must say, Bjarne, that
> until I get better at this, I would be simply terrified to starch it!
> The hot iron sticks to the wet starch in the lace, you see, and you have
> to gently pull it away before it scorches...eek!
>
When starching garments I use this approach.  Make up the starch on the
stove, let it cool, dilute if necessary, dip the garment in it, let it dry
completly, then sprinkle lightly or mist with water and let sit in the
fridge for a couple of hours, then iron.  This eliminates the hot iron
sticking to the fabric.

Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:01:25 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

Someone had
said they had not seen evidence in portraiture where
you could see
partlets tied on the outside.

Here is another:  http://www.lepg.org/cook.jpg

Not a stretch to propose that something like this
might be worn on the
inside over a chemise.  As Margo pointed out, if you
look closely at 
the
Snakerbor portrait, you can see 'something' that looks
like a chemise
under the item in question.  Doubtful that someone
would have worn two
chemises, so a shirt or partlet with sleeves is
reasonable.  But of
course, we really don't know.  

OK, I've looked at the portraits and pictures on the
links, and I think I'm finally ready to wade in
regarding partlets and 16th C. clothing.

1) The Helena Snakebor portrait. It's pretty obvious
that the lady in question is wearing s separate,
collared item over the upper part of her bodice. As
there are only 2 things that fit this description (a
gollar and a partlet) and she doesn't appear to be
German, I'm going to guess it's probably a partlet. A
partlet that has been lined (at the collar) with a
fabric that is matching the blackworked chemise or
sleeves she is wearing. This is not as far-fetched as
it seems: the V&A has several examples of "couture
panels" (i.e. fabric used for dresses) that are
blackworked. They also have at least 1 coif that has
been made out of a "recycled" couture panel with a
blackwork pattern very similar to the fabric used for
both the collar lining and the sleeves. There is also
little "probate evidence" for linen partlets being
worn under dresses. A woman back on the East Coast
(I'm currently drawing a blank on her name, but she
presented a paper at Kalamazoo last May) has done
quite a bit of work with 16th C. probate inventories
and wills, and while she has found lots of evidence
for shirts and chemises, and found virtually no
evidence that partlets were ever worn under gowns. Her
own theory, borne out by examination of a couple of
Elizabethan portraits (I believe one is the "Pelican
Portrait" of Elizabeth I) is that a plain, low-necked
chemise would be worn next to the skin, then a
blackworked shirt would be worn over the chemise,
under the gown.  

2) The other example, a painting by (I believe) 16th
C. Flemish painter Pieter Aertsen, shows a woman
wearing a linen underpartlet. Unfortunately, I have to
disagree on the conclusion drawn that an underpartlet
might be worn under a gown. At this time, there is no
evidence that women wore underpartlets other than how
they are depicted in the paintings by Aertsen and
other Antwerp School painters: over a chemise and gown
and usually under a colored fabric overpartlet, except
when doing strenuous or hot work (such as cooking),
when they would remove their overpartlet and
oversleeves, but retain their underpartlet. This
particular fashion seems to be a regional dress
difference specific to the area around Antwerp during
the mid-16th C. For those interested in more
information on 16th C. Flemish women's dress, I
recommend Drea Leed's book, "The Well Dress'd Peasant:
16th Century Flemish Workingwomen's Dress"

My 2 cents.

Dawn Jacobson
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] ruff starching update/starching methods
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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 21:06:12 -0600
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Lisa Sinervo wrote:
> 
> Melanie wrote:
> 
> > The hot iron sticks to the wet starch in the lace, you see, and you have
> > to gently pull it away before it scorches...eek!
> >
> When starching garments I use this approach.  Make up the starch on the
> stove, let it cool, dilute if necessary, dip the garment in it, let it dry
> completly, then sprinkle lightly or mist with water and let sit in the
> fridge for a couple of hours, then iron.  This eliminates the hot iron
> sticking to the fabric.

I have never heard of such a technique, but I'm very eager to try it! 
This time I used laundry starch out of a bottle, which I found to be
much more convenient than the boiled starch I used before.  I assume it
would work the same way, however.  How would you prevent all the folds
in the ruff from sticking together as it dried?  I use the starch
full-strength, so it would be rock-hard once dry.  I'm not sure how I
would persuade it to take a different shape...any advice?

Thanks!
Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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Subject: [h-cost] Mod Costume Movies - Kind of Off-Topic
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Greetings,

I am trying to get a list of Mod Costumed Movies (Think Clockwork Orange).  I have an image in my head of a character, wearing a bright colored suit (red) with a bright waistcoat (purple) wearing a bowler, with long hair, earrings and a tattoo on his hand, hanging on a fence.  Now for you romance novel enthusiasts, yes, it is also a scene from a romance novel, but I see this in my head too clearly for it not to have been a movie or something.  So if anyone knows of any movies with mod costumes, I would greatly appreciate it if people would send me the titles privately.

Thank you,
Kit
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
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It washed up great.  I put it in the dryer on delicate/low and one end
of it got a little crispy.  Next time I will just put it on air.

Thanks for your help all!

Sg



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> Not a stretch to propose that something like this might be worn on the
> inside over a chemise.  


Not at all.  But to propose that someone wore a matched partlet and
separate 
sleeves under a bodice?  I'd want to see evidence (such as from a
wardrobe 
inventory) of such items before giving that theory too much credence.

[Sg:]  I believe Margo also pointed out that there were inventories of
such.  Not sure why inventories would convince you of anything about how
they were worn though.  

[Sg:]   Curious why you find it so hard to believe that they would wear
a matched partlet and separate sleeves under a bodice as you seem to
agree with my statement above?




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RE: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait







> Not a =
stretch to propose that something like this might be worn on =
the



> inside =
over a chemise.  





Not at =
all.  But to propose that someone wore a matched partlet and =
separate 



sleeves under =
a bodice?  I'd want to see evidence (such as from a wardrobe =




inventory) of =
such items before giving that theory too much =
credence.



[Sg:]  =
I believe Margo also pointed out =
that there were inventories of such.  Not sure =
why inventories would convince you of anything =
about how they were worn =
though.  



[Sg:]   Curious why you =
find it so hard to believe that they would wear =
a matched partlet and separate sleeves under a bodice as you seem to =
agree with my statement above?








------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C2CD53.A9034A60--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 22:17:33 2003
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:18:50 -0700
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Thank you, I didn't know that that museum had it!  See you knew
something!!! 

Thanks again!

Sg


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:07 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel

 
 > Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by
 > Quesnel?
 > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm

It seems likely that no one is answering because no one can find
anything helpful!  This picture is also in Boucher's 20,000 Years of
Fashion, but it's in black and white and not any better than what's
online (in fact the one online may well have been scanned from Boucher).

The Oslo Kunstindustrimuseet, which owns the picture, doesn't seem to
have it online (though I might be missing it, as the site is of course
not in English!).  I suppose you could email them and ask if they would
send you a color picture.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 22:24:24 2003
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:26:24 -0500
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Jennifer, Yes, you can wash fake fur.  Some washes better than others, but
as has been said,"NEVER" dry it in the dryer or you'll have a drowned rat.
Part of my costume business has included animals and I have had a lot of
experience with the stuff.groom it with a pet brush or mit for a fluff up,
but if matted, you will never reclaim the original length or lay of the fur.
The white stuff is not as easy to keep nice and if laundered, it tends to
pick up the color  of anything in the wash; or if washed alone, it tends
toward looking like sheepskin.                                     Kathleen,
who has put all her pets to bed.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Sena" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experience washing fake fur?


>
>
>
>
> >Have any of you ever washed fake fur?
>
> It generallyt washes wonderfully, even the fairly cheap stuff, but never
put
> it in the dryer.  My purple 2" fur got tufty from being dried.
>
>
>
> Jennifer Sena
> Distant Designs
> http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi
>
> I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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OK, I've looked at the portraits and pictures on the
links, and I think I'm finally ready to wade in
regarding partlets and 16th C. clothing.

1) The Helena Snakebor portrait. It's pretty obvious
that the lady in question is wearing s separate,
collared item over the upper part of her bodice. 

 [Sg:]   I don't think that you are looking very closely at this
picture.  It is pretty clear that the flowered partlet, shirt or chemise
is under the bodice.

As there are only 2 things that fit this description (a
gollar and a partlet) and she doesn't appear to be
German, I'm going to guess it's probably a partlet. 

[Sg:]  This point is barely worth discussing. 

A partlet that has been lined (at the collar) with a
fabric that is matching the blackworked chemise or
sleeves she is wearing. This is not as far-fetched as
it seems: the V&A has several examples of "couture
panels" (i.e. fabric used for dresses) that are
blackworked. They also have at least 1 coif that has
been made out of a "recycled" couture panel with a
blackwork pattern very similar to the fabric used for
both the collar lining and the sleeves. There is also
little "probate evidence" for linen partlets being
worn under dresses. A woman back on the East Coast
(I'm currently drawing a blank on her name, but she
presented a paper at Kalamazoo last May) has done
quite a bit of work with 16th C. probate inventories
and wills, and while she has found lots of evidence
for shirts and chemises, and found virtually no
evidence that partlets were ever worn under gowns.

[Sg:]   I am still curious why people are using inventories as evidence
of how articles of clothing were worn aside from some anecdotal
information.   I doubt that every list of clothing in an inventory would
have detailed information on how the garment was to be worn.  That
information would be assumed to understood by the reader.

 Her own theory, borne out by examination of a couple of
Elizabethan portraits (I believe one is the "Pelican
Portrait" of Elizabeth I) is that a plain, low-necked
chemise would be worn next to the skin, then a
blackworked shirt would be worn over the chemise,
under the gown.  

[Sg:] Why is that the two items must be considered mutually exclusive?
Both a short shirt and partlet are judicious uses of precious fabrics
and embellishments.  Why launder a chemise when you can launder a shirt
or partlet?   The fact remains as Margo pointed out that we simply don't
know.  
[Sg:] 


2) The other example, a painting by (I believe) 16th
C. Flemish painter Pieter Aertsen, shows a woman
wearing a linen underpartlet. Unfortunately, I have to
disagree on the conclusion drawn that an underpartlet
might be worn under a gown. At this time, there is no
evidence that women wore underpartlets other than how
they are depicted in the paintings by Aertsen and
other Antwerp School painters: over a chemise and gown
and usually under a colored fabric overpartlet, except
when doing strenuous or hot work (such as cooking),
when they would remove their overpartlet and
oversleeves, but retain their underpartlet. This
particular fashion seems to be a regional dress
difference specific to the area around Antwerp during
the mid-16th C. For those interested in more
information on 16th C. Flemish women's dress, I
recommend Drea Leed's book, "The Well Dress'd Peasant:
16th Century Flemish Workingwomen's Dress"
[Sg:] Nothing you have presented 

[Sg:] Perhaps you should read some of Arnolds QEWU-Elizabeth ordered
partlets of the Flemish style.  They are related for that reason.

My 2 cents.

Dawn Jacobson
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I would say "Quadrophenia" is a good reference for Mod.
Not just costume, but the culture, the music.
Deb R.


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Subject: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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>When starching garments I use this approach.  Make up the starch on the
>stove, let it cool, dilute if necessary, dip the garment in it, let it dry
>completly, then sprinkle lightly or mist with water and let sit in the
>fridge for a couple of hours, then iron.  This eliminates the hot iron
>sticking to the fabric.

That is exactly how I do it, with a couple of extra steps:

Boil the starch, wash the ruff, blot the ruff, soak the ruff, squeegee the 
extra starch off.

What I do next is mount the ruff on a padded board by pinning the band flat 
to the board.  I then suspend the board (by strings tacked to the corners) 
from the ironing board, slinging the strings over the narrow end.   Make 
sure the ruff is separated as much as possible, and let it dry *completely*. 
  It may take a day or two.  When it is dry, it will be very stiff and hang 
straight out from the ruff band, giving the most volume.

When you are ready to iron (the Gold 'n Hot is an excellent choice of iron; 
I use a large Marcel grip iron by Zotos), spritz the ruff well and wrap it 
in Saran Wrap for a couple of hours.  This will soften the starch enough to 
iron, but as it isn't soaking, the iron will stick to it much less with less 
chance of damaging any lace.   Fasten the band in a circle; then you can 
either suspend it from something like a large soda bottle, or lay it on a 
table.  Iron one top edge, then turn over and iron the other edge.

As you're only ironing the dampened and not soaking starch, the ironing goes 
much quicker; about an hour for a large neck ruff, and a set of wrist ruffs 
in about 20 minutes each; this timing is for very full ruffs and would 
probably be less for a lighter ruff.

I hope this helps; I've done a lot of ruffs this way and it seems to work 
well.

Richard Harper
(Master Henry Kersey of Devon
East Kingdom)

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 22:56:31 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait
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> Not a stretch to propose that something like this might be worn on the
> inside over a chemise.  As Margo pointed out, if you look closely at the
> Snakerbor portrait, you can see 'something' that looks like a chemise
> under the item in question.  Doubtful that someone would have worn two
> chemises, so a shirt or partlet with sleeves is reasonable.  But of
> course, we really don't know.


Actually this was discussed on the yahoo sca-garb list in relation to early
16thC Italian costume and in some cases it's entrely possible that there
were multiple chemises worn. They are a lot lighter to wear than outer wear
stuff so it's not going to be too warming.

Not to say this *is* what's happening here, as I would agree that a shirt
with embroideries is being worn over a 'normal' shift/chemise. Just to say
that it's possible in some circumstances:)

Just as metal corsets weren't all for one thing, but there is documentation
for them being used for medicinal purposes:).

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb  5 23:38:38 2003
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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:38:48 -0600
Status: RO

 From all the other posts, I would say cut a small sample, and try washing 
and drying it.  I would put the small piece in a mesh bag or old nylon 
stocking, to keep the bits from getting all over everything else.  I have a 
fake-fur trimmed winter hat which I wash in cold water/gentle cycle (with 
all the other stuff that needs that occasionally), but I put it in the 
dryer once (very low) and it still kind of fused the tips of the fur.  I 
got a new one, and wash it but not put it in the dryer, and it turns out 
fine.
I also have a friend that makes fur "mascot" costumes - he washes his suits 
in the machine, but air-dries them.

YMMV
Sandy

>From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
>Subject: [h-cost] Experience washing fake fur?
>Have any of you ever washed fake fur?  I have a 'pelt' that has fairly
>long hair with the standard 'knit' back which looks and feels like it
>has sizing in it..  I want to pre-wash before cutting it out.  It came
>from one of those tailoring end stores and has no washing instructions.
>I thought washing it might soften it as well?

"Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly--
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-- C.Y. 4971

Andromeda


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] ruff starching update/starching methods
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I think Hunnisett recommends clothes pins, but it's late, and I could be
wrong.....
--sue

Melanie Schuessler wrote:
> 
How would you prevent all the folds
> in the ruff from sticking together as it dried?  I use the starch
> full-strength, so it would be rock-hard once dry.  I'm not sure how I
> would persuade it to take a different shape...any advice?
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
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> > Melanie wrote:

> I have never heard of such a technique, but I'm very eager to try it!
> This time I used laundry starch out of a bottle, which I found to be
> much more convenient than the boiled starch I used before.  I assume it
> would work the same way, however.  How would you prevent all the folds
> in the ruff from sticking together as it dried?  I use the starch
> full-strength, so it would be rock-hard once dry.  I'm not sure how I
> would persuade it to take a different shape...any advice?
>
It would be best to let it dry in a shape as close to the finished shape as
possible, but once you dampen the ruff the fold bonds will breakdown anyway
and get reset with the heat of the iron in the desired position. I would
experiment before I worried too much about having it dry perfectly.  I
forgot to say that I put the misted fabric in an airtight container and then
in the refrigerator.  Also, I put it in the fridge because I used to live in
a hot climate and sometimes I would get distracted for days and then get
back to my project only to find mold growing all over my fabric.  Not a
pretty sight, so I now put damp fabric in the refrigerator.  If you just put
it in a plastic bag for a few hours that should be find, or saran wrap as
Richard suggested.  I've never tried bottled starch because the product
wasn't sold where I used to live so I would be interested in hearing your
results.  Thanks for letting us view your efforts.  The ruff is very pretty!

Lisa



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 04:39:34 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:real metal threads-att. Lorina was: rough and smooth purl
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:40:08 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- Saragrace Knauf  wrote: > How do you clean items
with real metal thread?  I am reusing some silk
> embroidered with real metal (from India) and it is tarnished in places.
> Any suggestions?
> 
Ahhhh problem there if its on an embroidery I'm afraid! We were told by Hands
Embroidery in London (Goldlacemen since goodness-knows-when) to use cream of
tartar for the metal lace (the military braid style, not the point) when it is
tarnished. I am afraid though that I don'tknow what your embroidery looks like
and I fear the threat of mucking the fabric is there.

I just bought a whole load of Indian silk garments with most amazing mebroidery
but I think they must be fairly new, no tarnishing on there (yet...)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 05:38:39 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: real metal threads-att. Lorina was: rough and smooth purl
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 05:31:26 -0500
Status: RO

> How do you clean items with real metal thread?  I am reusing some silk
> embroidered with real metal (from India) and it is tarnished in places.
> Any suggestions?

    Kreinik suggests dry-cleaning only. Conservators believe the chemicals
used in dry-cleaning can damage fibres and suggest placing the garment in a
thoroughly washed and rinsed non-reactive vessel (your bathtub will do, but
it has to be THOROUGHLY rinsed) and soaking in de-ionized, de-mineralized
water. Historically real metal threads, and indeed embroideries, were
cleaned by sprinkling very, very dry bread crumbs on the garment, turning it
over and then whacking it soundly. This does a great deal to remove the
grease, but any crumbs that are left are like a neon fast food sign to
critters.

    I would suggest that if the garment is from India, and not a vintage
piece, it is likely the gold thread has a huge copper content in it and
likely isn't going to take well to any kind of cleaning. If it were mine,
I'd likely damn the torpedoes and try the dry cleaning. (I can't believe I
wrote that!) Depends on how important the garment is.

    Would be interested to read what other conservators on the list might
do.

Regards
Lorina
Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
supplies
(519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org  email:
info@5rivers.org


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 06:09:29 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: real metal threads-att. Lorina was: rough and smooth purl
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:10:50 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Five Rivers  wrote: > > 
>     I would suggest that if the garment is from India, and not a vintage
> piece, it is likely the gold thread has a huge copper content in it and
> likely isn't going to take well to any kind of cleaning. If it were mine,
> I'd likely damn the torpedoes and try the dry cleaning. (I can't believe I
> wrote that!) Depends on how important the garment is.

Oh you mean just cleaning and not removing the tarnish? I misunderstood. I did
the simplest thing imaginable with my Indian garments (some so heavily
embroidered they seem to weigh a ton ;-) will make lovely fantasy costumes), 
just handwashed it. In ordinary almost cool water with lots of rinsing, and I
used some Australian stuff I get from Lakeland. It is very miled and smells of
lavender. I could have washed it in Orvus paste but I paid 10-15 pounds
sterling per garment and thus just couldn't be bothered. I _hate_ hand
washing...

:-)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 06:46:29 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] OT, unless present counts: Burda patterns online at last
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:47:02 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

Yippieh!!!! I finally found a website (in German, sorry) that shows all the
available Burda patterns. I had been searching for something like this for
ages. remember when I said I always loved their patterns bets for their fit?
Somehow US or UK sizes just never seem to fit me: I am either too tall, my legs
too long, or they completely ignore the fact that despite having wide hips and
bum I have a waist, demmit! :-)

If anyone's interested: http://www.burdaschnitte.de

Nicole

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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 09:01:47 2003
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N Kipar wrote:
> Yippieh!!!! I finally found a website (in German, sorry) that shows all the
> available Burda patterns. I had been searching for something like this for
> ages. 


	You can also browse Burda through 
http://www.sewingpatterns.com/ dunno if they ship overseas 
or not,though. They seem to be a warehouse for 16 pattern 
lines: the Big3 and their variants (kwiksew, new look, 
stitsch &save...) as well as things like Green Pepper, Burda 
& Vogue. Now they've added some new ones I've never heard 
of: Pavelka, Brown Paper, and CJs Patterns.
	Don't know if they have a ocmplete catelog or not, they 
seem to have quite a few. They are also the only place for 
searching out McCall's patterns by number!

	-Judy

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 09:17:39 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 09:15:17 -0600
Status: RO

My thanks to all who sent helpful advice!  I am very hopeful and can't
wait to try it all out!  

To Lisa:
I started out using the boiled starch because I knew that that was the
period method (though of course theirs didn't come in a cardboard box!),
and I wasn't sure that the bottled starch would be the same.  After some
military friends advised me that it was, I tried it.  I found that it
had exactly the same properties except that it wasn't boiling hot while
I tried to use it!  Obviously, this is a huge advantage when you're
picking up folds of fabric with your fingers and holding them across a
hot iron.

To Richard:
Have you any pictures of your starched ruff(s) online?  I'm excited to
hear of another person who uses this method.

Thanks again to all!
Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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From: "Linda J. Thompson" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] ruff starching update/starching methods
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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 08:21:57 -0600
Status: RO

When I read Melanie's dissertation on starching, (wonderfully beautiful ruff by the 
way)...Something in the back of my mind kept niggling me... then when I read Lisa's 
sugestion it hit me... I can remember my mother starching all kinds of things when I was a 
child and my assigned weekly chore was to iron all the flat wear and I never remember it 
being that messy.  It was dry, and we spritzed everything with water, let it sit for 
awhile for the damp to penetrate, then ironed it.  :)


 >>Melanie wrote:

 >> I have thought about how amazing it would be to have a ruff with some of
 >> your fabulous hand-made lace on the edge.  But I must say, Bjarne, that
 >> until I get better at this, I would be simply terrified to starch it!
 >> The hot iron sticks to the wet starch in the lace, you see, and you have
 >> to gently pull it away before it scorches...eek!
 >>

 >When starching garments I use this approach.  Make up the starch on the
 >stove, let it cool, dilute if necessary, dip the garment in it, let it dry
 >completly, then sprinkle lightly or mist with water and let sit in the
 >fridge for a couple of hours, then iron.  This eliminates the hot iron
 >sticking to the fabric.

 >Lisa Sinervo
 >Threadneedle St. Clothiers
 >www.ThreadneedleSt.com
-- 
Linda Thompson
www.corsetsandcostumes.com
Attitude is Everything

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From: Carol Kocian 
Subject: [h-cost] Re: plaid in 18th C.
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Dawn wrote,
>OK, maybe it's just me, but it's absolutely screaming "1850s" to me.

      I agree - what a nice fabric for mid 19th century!  It's 
difficult when you want to make one period outfit but have the fabric 
that's great for another.

      -Carol
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 06:44:35 -0800
Status: RO

Richard wrote:


> As you're only ironing the dampened and not soaking starch, the ironing
goes
> much quicker; about an hour for a large neck ruff, and a set of wrist
ruffs
> in about 20 minutes each; this timing is for very full ruffs and would
> probably be less for a lighter ruff.
>
You know, I have done quite a bit of experimenting with ironing starched
garments, not necessarily ruffs, mostly petticoats, and fabric in
preparation for machine embroidery.  Now I let starched fabric dry
completely, mist, wrap in plastic then iron and this completely eliminates
the iron sticking to the fabric for me.  Once I thought I would let a shirt
air dry until it was just in the dampened state it would have been in if I
had misted it then try to iron it.  No success.  The iron stuck.  So, from
my experience, to avoid sticking, let it dry completely.  The leaving in an
airtight container or bag after misting very important, simply dampening and
ironing is less effective in getting the wrinkles out.

Lisa Sinervo


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 09:42:13 2003
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] ruff starching update/starching methods
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 06:48:14 -0800
Status: RO

Linda wrote:


> When I read Melanie's dissertation on starching, (wonderfully beautiful
ruff by the
> way)...Something in the back of my mind kept niggling me... then when I
read Lisa's
> sugestion it hit me... I can remember my mother starching all kinds of
things when I was a
> child and my assigned weekly chore was to iron all the flat wear and I
never remember it
> being that messy.  It was dry, and we spritzed everything with water, let
it sit for
> awhile for the damp to penetrate, then ironed it.  :)

My starching method was obtained from the instructions on the box of
starch!!!!

Cheers!

Lisa


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 10:14:02 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: real metal threads-att. Lorina was: rough and smooth purl
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:12:53 -0700
Status: RO

This embroidery is silver in color.  I hate to admit it, but I have know
idea how old it is.  It had been recycled once into a wrap skirt.  I
bought it that way and have now reused it to line a gollar collar.
Thanks for the help.

Sg


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Five Rivers
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:31 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Re: real metal threads-att. Lorina was: rough and
smooth purl

> How do you clean items with real metal thread?  I am reusing some silk
> embroidered with real metal (from India) and it is tarnished in
places.
> Any suggestions?

    Kreinik suggests dry-cleaning only. Conservators believe the
chemicals
used in dry-cleaning can damage fibres and suggest placing the garment
in a
thoroughly washed and rinsed non-reactive vessel (your bathtub will do,
but
it has to be THOROUGHLY rinsed) and soaking in de-ionized,
de-mineralized
water. Historically real metal threads, and indeed embroideries, were
cleaned by sprinkling very, very dry bread crumbs on the garment,
turning it
over and then whacking it soundly. This does a great deal to remove the
grease, but any crumbs that are left are like a neon fast food sign to
critters.

    I would suggest that if the garment is from India, and not a vintage
piece, it is likely the gold thread has a huge copper content in it and
likely isn't going to take well to any kind of cleaning. If it were
mine,
I'd likely damn the torpedoes and try the dry cleaning. (I can't believe
I
wrote that!) Depends on how important the garment is.

    Would be interested to read what other conservators on the list
might
do.

Regards
Lorina
Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns &
embroidery
supplies
(519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org  email:
info@5rivers.org


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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs/clarification
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:17:53 -0800
Status: RO

also, I realize you did not advocate the almost let it dry method.  just the
statement brought back memories


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs


> Richard wrote:
>
>
> > As you're only ironing the dampened and not soaking starch, the ironing
> goes
> > much quicker; about an hour for a large neck ruff, and a set of wrist
> ruffs
> > in about 20 minutes each; this timing is for very full ruffs and would
> > probably be less for a lighter ruff.
> >
> You know, I have done quite a bit of experimenting with ironing starched
> garments, not necessarily ruffs, mostly petticoats, and fabric in
> preparation for machine embroidery.  Now I let starched fabric dry
> completely, mist, wrap in plastic then iron and this completely eliminates
> the iron sticking to the fabric for me.  Once I thought I would let a
shirt
> air dry until it was just in the dampened state it would have been in if I
> had misted it then try to iron it.  No success.  The iron stuck.  So, from
> my experience, to avoid sticking, let it dry completely.  The leaving in
an
> airtight container or bag after misting very important, simply dampening
and
> ironing is less effective in getting the wrinkles out.
>
> Lisa Sinervo
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 10:22:37 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Nicoles new stash
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 I could have washed it in Orvus paste but I paid 10-15 pounds
sterling per garment and thus just couldn't be bothered. I _hate_ hand
washing...

:-)

Nicole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So when do we get to see pictures, hmmmmm :)?

Catherine
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 10:25:14 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:21:04 -0700
Status: RO

Could you explain a little more about the suspended padded board?   I
have this picture (which I know must be wrong) of the ruff pinned flat
to the board and the board hanging off the ironing board??  

Sg


What I do next is mount the ruff on a padded board by pinning the band
flat 
to the board.  I then suspend the board (by strings tacked to the
corners) 
from the ironing board, slinging the strings over the narrow end.   Make

sure the ruff is separated as much as possible, and let it dry
*completely*. 
  It may take a day or two.  When it is dry, it will be very stiff and
hang 
straight out from the ruff band, giving the most volume.



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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 07:51:43 -0800
Status: RO


>
>1) The Helena Snakebor portrait. It's pretty obvious
>that the lady in question is wearing s separate,
>collared item over the upper part of her bodice. As
>there are only 2 things that fit this description (a
>gollar and a partlet) and she doesn't appear to be
>German, I'm going to guess it's probably a partlet. A
>partlet that has been lined (at the collar) with a
>fabric that is matching the blackworked chemise or
>sleeves she is wearing. 

Aha!  I believe I've found the source of our confusion.  This doesn't sound
like the same portrait I was referring to.  I'm thinking of the painting at
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.tudor-portraits.com/T%2520Helena%
2520Snakenborg.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3
.htm&h=600&w=448&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsnakenborg%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3
D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN, often called "Portrait of an Unknown Girl", which
has recently been thought to be Helena Snakenborg.  This is the one with
the girl in a light red/pink gown, witht he sleeves and partlet/smock
neckline decorated with red, gold, and green floral embroidery, or possibly
applique.  

So what picture are you describing?  Got a link?

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
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From: Margo Anderson 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 07:59:10 -0800
Status: RO

I'm considering buying one of those "mini irons" made for quilters, the
ones with a handle with a tiny iron on the end of it.  I think it would be
great for ironing ruffs.  Has anyone tried one?

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nicoles new stash
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:41:53 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Catherine Kinsey  wrote: >  I could have washed it in
Orvus paste but I paid 10-15 pounds
> sterling per garment and thus just couldn't be bothered. I _hate_ hand
> washing...
> 
> :-)
> 
> Nicole
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> So when do we get to see pictures, hmmmmm :)?
> 
> Catherine

*laughs* Okay, I already took one ice blue top apart (will become elf dress
sleeves and bodice), am wearing a dark green silk shawl which I lined in an
almost the same shade of green, kept a darkish green top intact and waiting to
be taken apart when I need the embroidery, washed a dark red silk short jacket
last night to be taken apart today and made a little wider to be worn to work
etc., andwashed a long cream silk tunic with the really heavy embroidery with
peacock eyes etc. to be taken apart when needing the embroidery. The latter
ones need ironing (gently on the recverse side is fine) and then I'll take pix
whenever I'm home during daylight, which won't happen this weekend though.

Eventually... 

Can someone please keep me from going to the lady on te market to buy more???
HELP! Anonymous embroidery and siks shoppers aroundanywhere?

Nicole ;-)

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:17:39 -0000
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Nicole wrote:

> Can someone please keep me from going to the lady on te market to
buy more???
> HELP! Anonymous embroidery and siks shoppers aroundanywhere?

Why of course! Just tell me where she is and I'll go and reduce her
stock levels a bit....

best wishes
Stevie, always eager to assist fellow h-costians...

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 11:23:56 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Pearl Purl
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:25:50 +0100
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Hi again.
I apologises many times. You are right, it is hollow. Didnt notice that
yesterday.
Well i dont care if it was not used on garments in 18th century, it looks
damn good, and i like it.
I did use a silk couching  thread and whip stitches. The thread goes down in
the betweens of pearl purls. This pearl purl is from Hedgehog and it is very
solid and hard and not like the bullion threads.
I sewed it on the cuffs yesterday and i will use the rest i have for the
front edges of jacket, collar and pocket flaps two. It matches the other
gold threads and all the spangels.
My my am i going to be a gentleman.
Thoaght about i really needs to make a tricorne hat two.
How about a black one with bias taffeta like the suit to match it?
Have just baught the flight tickets for the Bath Ball!!!
Jubiiii

Bjarne

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 11:38:08 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] The serpents kiss
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Hi.
This film was shown in television the other night. I watched it : The
serpents kiss.
It was rather good in  costumes i think. But i was not sure wich time period
it was supposed to be. Ladies wore 1665-70 styles, and the gentlemen was
much later. About 1680 i would say. It was happening on a manor house, very
nice and the preparings of making a park for the manor house.
Did anyone else watch this?
And apropos more moovies, i got the Affair of the Necklace on dvd a coupple
of days ago. It is gorgeous!
There is a special on the dvd about the costume designer who was nominated
for the costumes. Italian lady.
Oh it is such a feast for the eayes. Especially some scenes from the mirror
hall. Crowded with gorgeous gorgeous costumes!!!!
I got Sense and Sensibility and  The Scarlet Pimpernel two. + some
wonderfull music cd's of Monsieaur Lully.
These wonderfull possibilities in shopping on amazon com. You can get all
the things you want, well almost, it is wonderfull.

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 11:53:51 2003
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:55:08 +0100
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Hi Margo.
I have not tryed to make the ruff pleats with it, but i baught this iron and
i use it for the small "in between" spaces in my embroidery.
It was with joy i got this iron from USA, but i had not calculated that you
use other sticks for power than we do and we use 250 watt here.
I had to have a specially made adaptor made for me, and it costed 10 times
as much as the iron in itself.
So it was expensive to get it, but now i am very glad that i have it. It is
much used, and now i am going to make doll clothes, it comes in handy.
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Margo Anderson" 
To: ; 
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs


> I'm considering buying one of those "mini irons" made for quilters, the
> ones with a handle with a tiny iron on the end of it.  I think it would be
> great for ironing ruffs.  Has anyone tried one?
>
> Margo
> "One Tough Costumer"
>
>
> The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
> http://www.margospatterns.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena Snakebor portrait
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:27:33 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

Is the flowered garment embroidered, then?

I've been off this list lately (there's an awful lot
to read), but I'll share something I just found out
about through a list I just joined for my new
embroidery machine.  Not to at all diminish real
embroidery, but as an alternative for those without
the time/patience/skill, have you seen this site:
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Orchestra/3405/Page7.html
I also did a quick search and found a couple of places
with blackwork patterns coded for embroidery machines.

Anyway, my mind is now churning thinking of what I
could do with a picture of a period portrait, a
scanner, digitizing software, and the embroidery
machine.

-Angela


--- Carolyn Kayta Barrows  wrote:
> 
> >Every reference I have seen to that portrait says
> it is a partlet.
> 
> And most of the ones I have read say, erroneously
> IMHO, that the puffing at 
> the shoulders is her chemise or shirt or whatever
> they are calling that 
> flowered garment.  I think that puffing is a
> separate piece, and I think 
> it's sewn into the sleeves permanently as puffing.
> 
> There are several extant shirt-garments with
> embroidery in all the right 
> places for them to be examples of the garment the
> lady in the portrait 
> wears.  The embroidery stops where it wouldn't show
> under the portrait 
> lady's bodice.  There are a few in Fashion In
> Detail, and there's another 
> (in pale purple on white) in G.W.Digby's Elizabethan
> Embroidery book.
> 
> Kayta
> 
>     //// \\\
>    ////-@@\\\
>   ((((   7 )))
>    (((  <> ))))
>       )   ((((((
> /----\   /---\))
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 13:39:04 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs-mini iron
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:34:55 -0700
Status: RO

I have one and it is great.  It has multiple heat levels and can get
very hot.  It is great for getting into small spaces.  I used it this
weekend on a simple ruff.  It worked very well, but I am not sure I have
the patience for doing it all the time!!

Sg



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 13:48:58 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pearl Purl
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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>Well i dont care if it was not used on garments in 18th century, it
looks
 >damn good, and i like it.
 
 
[Sg:] Way to go Bjarne! You know you have real command of a foreign
language when you can cuss in it!!  Glad to know I am not the only ones
that cusses in a different language and that there others think there
are just some things that look so good it doesn't really matter if they
are period or not!  :-)

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C2CDD4.69063310
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>Well
i dont care if it was not used on garments in 18th century, it =
looks



 >damn good, and i like =
it.



 



 


[Sg:]
Way to go Bjarne! You know you have real command of a foreign language =
when you
can cuss in it!!  Glad to =
know I am
not the only ones that cusses in a different language and that there =
others
think there are just some things that look so good it doesn’t =
really
matter if they are period or not!  =
J<=
/span>









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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 14:01:38 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Nicoles stash
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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 13:00:05 -0600
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Can someone please keep me from going to the lady on te market to buy
more???
HELP! Anonymous embroidery and siks shoppers aroundanywhere?

Nicole ;-)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You said two of my favorite words:  "green" and "silk" :).  Ya know,
once we see the pics you might get enough requests from the list that
you will just *haaave* to make another trip.  Let us twist your
arm......

Catherine
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 15:00:52 2003
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:04:20 -0500
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Saragrace, it I am understanding the set-up, the board is suspended upside
down so that the flutes hand down to dry...does this make sense?
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:21 AM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs


> Could you explain a little more about the suspended padded board?   I
> have this picture (which I know must be wrong) of the ruff pinned flat
> to the board and the board hanging off the ironing board??
>
> Sg
>
>
> What I do next is mount the ruff on a padded board by pinning the band
> flat
> to the board.  I then suspend the board (by strings tacked to the
> corners)
> from the ironing board, slinging the strings over the narrow end.   Make
>
> sure the ruff is separated as much as possible, and let it dry
> *completely*.
>   It may take a day or two.  When it is dry, it will be very stiff and
> hang
> straight out from the ruff band, giving the most volume.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>

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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:32:07 -0700
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Yes!!  Yes!  I get the picture now!

Sg



Saragrace, it I am understanding the set-up, the board is suspended
upside
down so that the flutes hand down to dry...does this make sense?
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:21 AM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs


> Could you explain a little more about the suspended padded board?   I
> have this picture (which I know must be wrong) of the ruff pinned flat
> to the board and the board hanging off the ironing board??
>
> Sg
>
>
> What I do next is mount the ruff on a padded board by pinning the band
> flat
> to the board.  I then suspend the board (by strings tacked to the
> corners)
> from the ironing board, slinging the strings over the narrow end.
Make
>
> sure the ruff is separated as much as possible, and let it dry
> *completely*.
>   It may take a day or two.  When it is dry, it will be very stiff and
> hang
> straight out from the ruff band, giving the most volume.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From: Jacobson Dawn 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Portraits of unknown people (was "Helena Snakebor Portrait")
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:06:50 -0800 (PST)
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Margo wrote:

<>

Margo--

To quote Homer Simpson, "Doh!"

Here's a link to the one I was referring to:

http://www.geocities.com/athens/forum/9194/lady-black.jpg

I have no idea where it is from, or who painted it
(Note to the lovely person who posted this picture:
Could you please post the name of the book it's from?
Inquiring minds want to know... Thanks!).

My guess is, just judging from the gown she's wearing,
is that it was painted in the 1530s or 40s, and she's
an adult.

The picture you're referring to:

http://www.tudor-portraits.com/T%20Helena%20Snakenborg.jpg

is 30-40 years later, of a younger woman.

After looking at the 1569 painting of this unknown
lady (who is, by the way, 21, according to the left
side of her head), I'm in agreement you you, Kayta,
and others who have said that it appears that she is
wearing a polychrome embroidered shirt over a
low-necked (probably square-necked) chemise. I'm
trying to see if I have a better (clearer) version of
the painting; if so, I'll scan it and upload it for
everybody that's interested. From what I could see of
the digital image, the neckline of the chemise is
edged with a different gold lace than the shirt. In
this way, it's similar to the chemise/shirt
combination worn by Elizabeth I in the "Pelican
Portrait." 

http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_25.jpg

What am I basing my conclusion on? 1) There are
several extant polychrome embroidered shirts in
collections including, IIRC, the V&A; 2) Danielle
Nunn-Weinberg has done a pretty extensive study of
mid-16th century probate inventories and wills
regarding clothing and dress accessories and, (again,
I'm relying on memory--I would have to go searching a
list archives back about 15 months to find the exact
thread) from her studies, has drawn the conclusion
most of these embroidered "partlets" are actually
shirts (lots of leaving embroidered shirts and
chemises, but only 1 partlet, and it was of velvet).

Thanks again to Margo for clearing this up.

Dawn
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 17:30:18 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Portraits of unknown people (was "Helena Snakebor Portrait")
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:30:55 -0700
Status: RO

Here is the information on the portrait you are referring to:

I posted the link because someone asked for pictures of partlets tied on
the outside.  You will have to contact the webmistress of the below site
to find out more about where she got it from.

http://www.geocities.com/marilee-cody/nobilitypics.html


Sg

I have no idea where it is from, or who painted it
(Note to the lovely person who posted this picture:
Could you please post the name of the book it's from?
Inquiring minds want to know... Thanks!).

My guess is, just judging from the gown she's wearing,
is that it was painted in the 1530s or 40s, and she's
an adult.

The picture you're referring to:

http://www.tudor-portraits.com/T%20Helena%20Snakenborg.jpg

is 30-40 years later, of a younger woman.

After looking at the 1569 painting of this unknown
lady (who is, by the way, 21, according to the left
side of her head), I'm in agreement you you, Kayta,
and others who have said that it appears that she is
wearing a polychrome embroidered shirt over a
low-necked (probably square-necked) chemise. I'm
trying to see if I have a better (clearer) version of
the painting; if so, I'll scan it and upload it for
everybody that's interested. From what I could see of
the digital image, the neckline of the chemise is
edged with a different gold lace than the shirt. In
this way, it's similar to the chemise/shirt
combination worn by Elizabeth I in the "Pelican
Portrait." 

http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_25.jpg

What am I basing my conclusion on? 1) There are
several extant polychrome embroidered shirts in
collections including, IIRC, the V&A; 2) Danielle
Nunn-Weinberg has done a pretty extensive study of
mid-16th century probate inventories and wills
regarding clothing and dress accessories and, (again,
I'm relying on memory--I would have to go searching a
list archives back about 15 months to find the exact
thread) from her studies, has drawn the conclusion
most of these embroidered "partlets" are actually
shirts (lots of leaving embroidered shirts and
chemises, but only 1 partlet, and it was of velvet).

Thanks again to Margo for clearing this up.

Dawn
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 18:21:50 2003
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From: "Glenda Robinson" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nicoles new stash
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:25:16 +1100
Status: RO

Nicole,

You might as well spend the money now, aren't you going back to university?
You'll have your chance to not spend money on lovely fabrics later when your
income thins down (and you'll still have plenty of fabric stash to keep you
happy as well!)

I've been using up some of my fabric stash of late, but I'm sure I'll be
sewing a LONG time till I make a dint on it.

Glenda.

----- Original Message ----- >
> Can someone please keep me from going to the lady on te market to buy
more???
> HELP! Anonymous embroidery and siks shoppers aroundanywhere?
>
> Nicole ;-)
>
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 18:27:44 2003
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: MaryAnn Jones 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 15:26:54 -0800
Status: RO

yes, I use it all the time.  it only has two settings, but I love itt.

At 07:59 AM 2/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm considering buying one of those "mini irons" made for quilters, the
>ones with a handle with a tiny iron on the end of it.  I think it would be
>great for ironing ruffs.  Has anyone tried one?
>
>Margo
>"One Tough Costumer"
>
>
>The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
>http://www.margospatterns.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 20:04:38 2003
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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 20:05:02 -0500
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I don't know his methods particularly, but Master Henry tends always to 
look very elegant, even after several days of camping.

>From: "R Harper" 
>
>I hope this helps; I've done a lot of ruffs this way and it seems to work well.
>
>Richard Harper
>(Master Henry Kersey of Devon
>East Kingdom)
>
Ann in CT
Cecilia Dollmaker
BBM, East



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 20:51:09 2003
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:49:03 -0800
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I was just reading Kendra's site, and she has a new section
on Bustle Era hair styles.  I'm going to be making a bustle dress
for my costuming class this term, so this is PERFECT timing.
She even wrote up a how-to section...

http://demode.tweedlebop.com/vic_hair.html  for the info!

.heather.




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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 21:14:00 2003
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From: "chiara" 
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Subject: [h-cost] common glove pattern
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:14:50 -0600
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I just wanted to let you all know that this is the most common glove pattern
that you will find on ebay. It is exactly what anyone can use for gloves
that are for turn of the last century on through date. It comes up on ebay
at least once a week so go get it if you want something cheap and easy to
make for your late period needs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3112871322&category=11801

(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸¸.·'´)¸.· '´)¸.·'´)
·.·*¨`·¤ Chiara  ¤·´¨*·.·»
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´`'·.¸)`'· .¸)`'·.¸)

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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:50:39 -0600
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Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> Here is the information on the portrait you are referring to:
> 
> I posted the link because someone asked for pictures of partlets tied on
> the outside.  You will have to contact the webmistress of the below site
> to find out more about where she got it from.
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/marilee-cody/nobilitypics.html

I'm not the webmistress of that site, but the Lady in Black does appear
in the book _Dynasties:  Painting in Tudor and Jacobean England
1530-1630_, edited by Karen Hearn.  She's on page 53.  The paintings in
this book are almost entirely portraits, so I recommend it to anyone who
does research on that century.

Melanie Schuessler
(posting too much recently!  must go work!)
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From: Melanie Schuessler 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:43:49 -0600
Status: RO

Margo Anderson wrote:
> 
> I'm considering buying one of those "mini irons" made for quilters, the
> ones with a handle with a tiny iron on the end of it.  I think it would be
> great for ironing ruffs.  Has anyone tried one?

I've never even heard of it!  I had to go look it up online just now. 
How cute!  

As for using it to iron ruffs, the reason I like the round-ended curling
irons is that they are the approximate shape you want your figure-eights
to be.  I don't "iron" the ruff on a board;  I tie it around a bottle
and use the curling iron like a goffering iron (as in the monkey cartoon
in QEWU).  This is particularly important because it creates the round
spot right next to the neckband where the fabric goes almost immediately
from tightly gathered to completely spread out.  You can see this in the
second picture down on this page:
http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff5.html
and in this portrait of Mary Queen of Scots
http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Mary%20Scots%20B.jpg

I'm not sure you could get the same effect with a pointy-nosed iron.  I
also wonder how you would iron the parts that end up more-or-less
vertical when the ruff is worn, since you couldn't really get them on
the ironing board without distorting the figure-eight.

Where I can see it being useful is for less formal ruffs, which you can
do by simply starching a ruffle and ironing the edge out.  (Maybe this
is what Saragrace referred to?)  You won't get figure eights
necessarily, but you'll get a nice full ruffle.

I'm sure we all have our favorite method, with none being right or
wrong.  I'm so glad there are others out there starching their ruffs!

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 22:28:53 2003
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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: 
References: <55B627C8-3A3E-11D7-B26A-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] victorian hair
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:28:25 -0800
Status: RO

Thanks for pointing this out, Heather!  I was meaning to do so myself, but
got distracted.

For those who wait with bated breath, I'm also planning to include links for
the period 1790-1829 (currently not covered) into my Real Victorian Clothing
directory -- http://demode.tweedlebop.com/realvict.html .  (Trying to make
up for the disappearance of many of Cathy Decker's Regency pages.)  The new
listings should be up tomorrow.

- Kendra, who obviously has too much time on her hands

----- Original Message -----
From: "Heather Meadows" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:49 PM
Subject: [h-cost] victorian hair


>
>
> I was just reading Kendra's site, and she has a new section
> on Bustle Era hair styles.  I'm going to be making a bustle dress
> for my costuming class this term, so this is PERFECT timing.
> She even wrote up a how-to section...
>
> http://demode.tweedlebop.com/vic_hair.html  for the info!
>
> .heather.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 22:31:27 2003
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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: plaid in 18th C.
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:30:06 -0800
Status: RO

Thanks to all for the input and encouragement on my 18th century plaid
conundrum.  I've decided that I'm going to save the plaid for a later period
(1830s or 40s), and use the changeable green taffeta that I picked up
recently for the robe a la francaise.  (I've been inspired by Bjarne's
amazing work, and am thinking about doing some embroidery on the dress to
liven it up).

I may still make the margaritas, tho!

- Kendra

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb  6 23:38:30 2003
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From: Jacobson Dawn 
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Subject: [h-cost] Some recent photos of clothes, textiles and needlework
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I've recently uploaded some photos of my more recent
projects, along with a bunch of photos of textiles and
needlework I took while in London last April. There
are also some photos of the most recent encampment
held by the Renaissance Military Society (RMS), taken
by Stephen Jacobson (yeah, the guy from The
Costumemaker's Art). ;-)

The photos are at:

http://photos.yahoo.com/snjacobson168

Enjoy!

Dawn
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 00:25:09 2003
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From: "Wanda Pease" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:14:31 -0800
Status: RO

Bjarne,

	If you ever need another transformer for your 110 to 220 iron or whatever,
check with friends in Germany who live near an American military
installation, or with the local chapter of the SCA.  2000 watt transformers
used to sell used for about $20 US at the base/post thrift store.  They are
heavy as boat anchors, so you might need to arrange for it to be hand
carried.  Nearest place to you might be Bremerhaven if they still use that
port to ship personal vehicles back and forth to the States.

Wanda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:55 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
>
>
> Hi Margo.
> I have not tryed to make the ruff pleats with it, but i baught
> this iron and
> i use it for the small "in between" spaces in my embroidery.
> It was with joy i got this iron from USA, but i had not
> calculated that you
> use other sticks for power than we do and we use 250 watt here.
> I had to have a specially made adaptor made for me, and it costed 10 times
> as much as the iron in itself.
> So it was expensive to get it, but now i am very glad that i have
> it. It is
> much used, and now i am going to make doll clothes, it comes in handy.
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 00:28:54 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: [h-cost] OT: Eagle Scout Project
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Status: RO

Please forgive me for being off-topic.  So many of you are like family to me
and my family, and I thought you would like to know about this wonderful
project.

Most of you know I have five sons.  My fourth son, Patrick, is working on
earning his Eagle Scout rank.  Some of you have heard me talk about Patrick
before... he is a theater tech student, knows how to sew costumes for plays,
and is learning to knit.  He is a very creative soul.

We have been busy this week, preparing to present Pat's proposal for an
Eagle Scout project for the Board of Review.  It was approved Thursday
night!!!!!  Pat wants to make Eagle Scout before his 18th birthday on Oct.
15 or he will age out of Scouts.  It is a long procedure to become an Eagle
Scout.  Only 4% of Boy Scouts make the rank of Eagle Scout.  Each Scout
needs to have a community service project to earn the rank.

Patrick wanted to do something creative and that would really help the
community.  So get out your hankies and I will tell you what Patrick's Eagle
Scout project is....

There are these new stuffed animals called Critter Craft.
http://www.crittercrafts.com/crittercrafts/  Click on each critter and you
will see an enlarged photo.   We saw them on a TV commercial for Ben
Franklin's Crafts and More.  The idea is that you stuff the animals.   Each
critter comes with their own story book and adventure.

Patrick is going to run an Adopt a Critter program.  He will be asking
people adopt one or more of these 12 critters for $10 each. The Scouts in
his troop will stuff them and then donate them to the children's cancer and
terminal diseases wards at the four major hospitals in the Richmond,
Virginia
Metro.

Ben Franklin's has agreed to give Patrick a 20% discount off of the retail
cost of the critters and the supplies.  The manager at Ben Franklin's was
about to cry when Pat told her what his Eagle Scout project was.  Patrick's
goal is to give at least 50 critters to the hospitals.  Ben Franklin's told
Patrick that they would make sure they had a supply of as many critters that
he needed.

Patrick is looking for organizations, businesses, and individuals who
want to Adopt a Critter.  You get to choose which critter you want to adopt.
If you or someone you know, wants to Adopt a Critter, go to
http://www.crittercrafts.com/crittercrafts/  and decide which Critter you
want to adopt.  Then send a payment via Paypal, www.paypal.com  to the email
address, adoptacritter@costumegallery.com .  In the message part, please let
Patrick know your name or organization, and which Critter you want to adopt.

Patrick has three months to accept donations.  Then the Scouts will start
making them.

I am sure the Critter you choose will be loved dearly by a sweet child.

Please feel free to past this message around.  The more critters, the more
children with happy faces.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: [h-cost] Interesting 0n-line source for hats
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Hey, gang.  While scouring the net for a source for a hat appropriate to
wear with a Flemish market outfit, I found this site....Looks like it
could make a lot of us happy, as the owner covers a number of time
periods and such.
Enjoy!
--sue

http://www.dirtybillyshats.com/index.htm
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   Dirty Billy's Hats


 






 Dirty
Billy's Hats








. .

Click on for Union Goods PageClick on for Confederate Goods Page

.        .

Click on for Civilian Goods PageClick for the Civilian Straw Hat Page

Click for the 17th Century Hat PageClick for the 18th Century Hat Page



                                                     
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      .








New !
m.1812 Leather Shako   Click on the Animation for more details










                                                  
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Ordering
Information








.






                                    
.

    

      Dirty Billy has been a Civil War
Militaria collector and reenactor since he attended the Antietam Centennial
in 1962. In 1981, he began selling his museum quality headwear to the public.
Many of his reproductions are made using original blocks, and all are the
result of his close study of original artifacts and period photographs. 

      Although Civil War period headwear
is his biggest seller, he can reproduce hats ranging from the 1700s through
the Indian War period. Dirty Billy has made hats for actors including Sam
Elliott and Martin Sheen in Gettysburg, Patrick Swayze in North
and South, and Tom Berenger in The Rough Riders. Other movies
include Tombstone, Son of the Morning Star, and the upcoming Gods
and Generals.

      If you don't see what you want in
our catalog, just ask; chances are, Billy can make it. Dirty Billy's Hats
are historical artifacts you can wear.

      

      Click to view
      


       

       
    









   .










Schedule
of Events We Are Attending



 







.








If you're in the Gettysburg area,
stop by our shop!

Current Shop Hours--

Thursday through Monday

10 a.m. to 6 p.m.

Shop hours are subject to change
due to our event schedule.

If you are traveling, please
call in advance to ensure the shop is open.

Click below for a sampling of
what you might see.






.






 





 










.



.

                            
Shop                     
Mail Orders



(717) 334-3200                      
(410) 775-1865

    430A Baltimore Street        
7574 Middleburg Road

Gettysburg, PA 17325            
Detour, MD 21757

                                
.

                                                     
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All Original Contents ©
Dirty Billy's Hats LLC.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 03:08:59 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Eagle Scout Project
To: h-costume@indra.com
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 --- Penny Ladnier  wrote: > Please forgive me for
being off-topic.  So many of you are like family to me
> and my family, and I thought you would like to know about this wonderful
> project.

Sorry Penny, I don't have money for that (maybe if it were local), but I would
like to know what Eagle Scouts are. I do know now what Scouts are, after being
bewildered at seeing those little kiddies running about here in funny looking
(to me) uniforms, but what that's Eagle rank? I'm curious as ever.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 03:14:57 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Some recent photos of clothes, textiles and needlework
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:13:46 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

Lovely lovely photos of your costumes! I adore the foggy ones, it really looks
like being taken in another time and place.

Thanks so much for sharing these and the eedlework photos. I want the blackwork
chemise as a summer dress! *whines*

Nicole

 --- Jacobson Dawn  wrote: > I've recently uploaded some
photos of my more recent
> projects, along with a bunch of photos of textiles and
> needlework I took while in London last April. There
> are also some photos of the most recent encampment
> held by the Renaissance Military Society (RMS), taken
> by Stephen Jacobson (yeah, the guy from The
> Costumemaker's Art). ;-)
> 
> The photos are at:
> 
> http://photos.yahoo.com/snjacobson168
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Dawn
> _______________________________________________
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Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 03:21:01 2003
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Subject: Ebay bid oops Re: [h-cost] common glove pattern
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:19:37 +0000 (GMT)
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OOOPS!!!! I just bid on a glove pattern on the English ebay (don't use the US
one anymore most of the time) because it is exactly my size and I have this
lovely leather. I was outbid and was just about to bid quite a lot more when I
saw the bidder's ID: fhavas, Francesca, is that you? Our own Francesca Havas?
I'm sorry, I won't bid on that pattern anymore, I only pushed it up to under
5. I should have engaged my brain before bidding, but it's only shortly after
8 in the morning...

Nicole - who would still love this pattern but will NOT bid against a fellow
helpful, nice and friendly h-costumer.

 --- chiara  wrote: > I just wanted to let you all know that
this is the most common glove pattern
> that you will find on ebay. It is exactly what anyone can use for gloves
> that are for turn of the last century on through date. It comes up on ebay
> at least once a week so go get it if you want something cheap and easy to
> make for your late period needs.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3112871322&category=11801
> 
> (`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸¸.·'´)¸.· '´)¸.·'´)
> «·.·*¨`·¤ Chiara  ¤·´¨*·.·»
> (¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´`'·.¸)`'· .¸)`'·.¸)
> 
> _______________________________________________
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:14:21 +0100 (CET)
Status: RO

On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Melanie Schuessler wrote:
>  > Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by
>  > Quesnel?
>  > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm
> 
> The Oslo Kunstindustrimuseet, which owns the picture, doesn't seem to
> have it online (though I might be missing it, as the site is of course
> not in English!).  I suppose you could email them and ask if they would
> send you a color picture.

Catching up om my e-mail here, so this is a few days late. :) But - 
you're certain that Kunstindustrimuseet is the place? The reason I ask 
is that they don't have a lot of paintings, as far as I cn recall. But I 
may well be wrong, and if it's the right museum and they don't have any 
colour photographs to send, I could check if they'll let me photograph it 
and post it. The worst that can happen is that they'll say no. :)

Ingrid

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nicoles new stash
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:25:55 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Glenda Robinson  wrote: > Nicole,
> 
> You might as well spend the money now, aren't you going back to university?
> You'll have your chance to not spend money on lovely fabrics later when your
> income thins down (and you'll still have plenty of fabric stash to keep you
> happy as well!)

*laughs* what an infallible logic.. but I must notspend money that I don't
really have instea of saving for the poor future :-)

> I've been using up some of my fabric stash of late, but I'm sure I'll be
> sewing a LONG time till I make a dint on it.

Is it just me then that I NEVER have the fabric in my stash for that
pattern/project? I looked through all my fabrics last night, I want to make an
Elrond-type robe (to b worn as a jacket) and do I have any suitable fabric?
No.... nor for a nice fitted waistcoat with wings, nor... and so on.

Nicole

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:31:08 -0000
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Hi all,
People interested in this period are probably aware of this rather
strange fashion, but the Tate has just acquired a humdinger of the
genre:

http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/WorkImage?id=27365&sid=null&group=gener
al&name=britain&start=null&end=null&mda=

This is part of a small exhibition marking the death of Elizabeth in
1603, and even if this is not your period then the apparent
contradiction of the Virgin Queen presiding over women almost at the
point of giving birth is a fascinating example of icon against icon in
portraiture. The pictures are rather pretty as well:-)

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 06:52:44 2003
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Some recent photos of clothes, textiles and needlework
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 06:52:31 -0500
Status: RO

WOW. Beautiful stuff. The foggy pictures are amazing, they're almost
ghostly. They actually gave me shivers!

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacobson Dawn" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:37 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Some recent photos of clothes, textiles and needlework


> I've recently uploaded some photos of my more recent
> projects, along with a bunch of photos of textiles and
> needlework I took while in London last April. There
> are also some photos of the most recent encampment
> held by the Renaissance Military Society (RMS), taken
> by Stephen Jacobson (yeah, the guy from The
> Costumemaker's Art). ;-)
>
> The photos are at:
>
> http://photos.yahoo.com/snjacobson168
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Dawn
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 08:28:57 2003
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From: "chiara" 
To: 
References: <20030207081937.18784.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ebay bid oops Re: [h-cost] common glove pattern
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:32:43 -0600
Status: RO

LOL, yes that is I.

Actually, what I want are the historically significant notes that come with
these patterns. If all you want is the pattern itself please feel free to
take it. Just share the notes with me. I find great insight reading
someone's notes on what they did to make the pattern fit for them. :)

I have this particular pattern already. I am bidding for the notes to help
me in my research. The best ones with personal notes are from overseas.

I actually got one pattern from overseas with a receipt in it dated 1946
from JC Penney of all places. My husband is their VB.Net guru and is having
it framed for his corner office. *giggle*

(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸¸.·'´)¸.· '´)¸.·'´)
·.·*¨`·¤ Chiara  ¤·´¨*·.·»
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´`'·.¸)`'· .¸)`'·.¸)

----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:19 AM
Subject: Ebay bid oops Re: [h-cost] common glove pattern


> OOOPS!!!! I just bid on a glove pattern on the English ebay (don't use the
US
> one anymore most of the time) because it is exactly my size and I have
this
> lovely leather. I was outbid and was just about to bid quite a lot more
when I
> saw the bidder's ID: fhavas, Francesca, is that you? Our own Francesca
Havas?
> I'm sorry, I won't bid on that pattern anymore, I only pushed it up to
under
> £5. I should have engaged my brain before bidding, but it's only shortly
after
> 8 in the morning...
>
> Nicole - who would still love this pattern but will NOT bid against a
fellow
> helpful, nice and friendly h-costumer.
>
>  --- chiara  wrote: > I just wanted to let you all know
that
> this is the most common glove pattern
> > that you will find on ebay. It is exactly what anyone can use for gloves
> > that are for turn of the last century on through date. It comes up on
ebay
> > at least once a week so go get it if you want something cheap and easy
to
> > make for your late period needs.
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3112871322&category=11801
> >
> > (`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸¸.·'´)¸.· '´)¸.·'´)
> > «·.·*¨`·¤ Chiara  ¤·´¨*·.·»
> > (¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´`'·.¸)`'· .¸)`'·.¸)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 08:37:51 2003
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Subject: Re: Ebay bid oops Re: [h-cost] common glove pattern
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:37:36 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- chiara  wrote: > LOL, yes that is I.
> 
> Actually, what I want are the historically significant notes that come with
> these patterns. If all you want is the pattern itself please feel free to
> take it. Just share the notes with me. I find great insight reading
> someone's notes on what they did to make the pattern fit for them. :)
> 
> I have this particular pattern already. I am bidding for the notes to help
> me in my research. The best ones with personal notes are from overseas.


Okay :-) If no one else outbids me now we have a deal: I'll share the notes,
that's no problem!

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 08:56:03 2003
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From: Melanie Schuessler 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for a color or better image by Quesnel
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Ingrid G. Storrø wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Melanie Schuessler wrote:
> >  > Does anyone know of a better (color preferably) of this painting by
> >  > Quesnel?
> >  > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/English_Nobles_3.htm
> >
> > The Oslo Kunstindustrimuseet, which owns the picture, doesn't seem to
> > have it online (though I might be missing it, as the site is of course
> > not in English!).  I suppose you could email them and ask if they would
> > send you a color picture.
> 
> Catching up om my e-mail here, so this is a few days late. :) But -
> you're certain that Kunstindustrimuseet is the place?

Let me check the book again...
The caption says:  "Francois Quesnel:  Portrait of a Woman, c. 1570. 
Oslo, Kunstindustrimuseet.  (Photo Teigen)"
[figure 469 in my edition of Boucher's 20,000 Years of Fashion]

I was curious, too, because I couldn't find any paintings on their
website, but that's what the book says.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 09:25:09 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:24:59 +0100
Status: RO

Hi.
Yes, it weighs a ton the one i got, but i should have known that. Two late
now!
But thanks anyway.
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanda Pease" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:14 AM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs


> Bjarne,
>
> If you ever need another transformer for your 110 to 220 iron or whatever,
> check with friends in Germany who live near an American military
> installation, or with the local chapter of the SCA.  2000 watt
transformers
> used to sell used for about $20 US at the base/post thrift store.  They
are
> heavy as boat anchors, so you might need to arrange for it to be hand
> carried.  Nearest place to you might be Bremerhaven if they still use that
> port to ship personal vehicles back and forth to the States.
>
> Wanda
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> > Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
> > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:55 AM
> > To: h-costume@indra.com
> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ironing Ruffs
> >
> >
> > Hi Margo.
> > I have not tryed to make the ruff pleats with it, but i baught
> > this iron and
> > i use it for the small "in between" spaces in my embroidery.
> > It was with joy i got this iron from USA, but i had not
> > calculated that you
> > use other sticks for power than we do and we use 250 watt here.
> > I had to have a specially made adaptor made for me, and it costed 10
times
> > as much as the iron in itself.
> > So it was expensive to get it, but now i am very glad that i have
> > it. It is
> > much used, and now i am going to make doll clothes, it comes in handy.
> > Leif og Bjarne Drews
> > www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 09:35:08 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nicoles stash
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:33:25 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Catherine Kinsey  wrote: > 
> You said two of my favorite words:  "green" and "silk" :).  Ya know,
> once we see the pics you might get enough requests from the list that
> you will just *haaave* to make another trip.  Let us twist your
> arm......

*grins* well.... with a "lot" of twisting...

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" 
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Subject: [h-cost] followup on the Art thief whose mother destroyed the Cranach
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:14:59 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO


Dunno who else was following this, but my paper
actually had this in the World section (something NOT
related to Bush/Iraq/North Korea!!!).

The French waiter was convicted by a Swiss court of
the theft of $1.2 million worth of art from Swis
museums.  He is sentenced to 4 years in prison and
then banishment for 15 years from Switzerland.  After
his term in Switzerland, he faces trial in France.

His girlfriend also faces charges in France, but there
was no mention of any charges against the destructive
mother. 

The article specifically mentioned Lucas Cranach the
Elder's "Sybille, Princess of Cleves" as the estimated
most valuable grab, and included works by Antoine
Watteau, Peter Bruegel and Francois Boucher.  

Angharat

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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 08:46:35 -0600
Status: RO

Dawn; thanks for posting these.  I especially like the 'foggy' pics, you
really captured one of those moments when we feel we have truly stepped
into another time.  Landsknechts on the march :).

Question from your V&A visit:  did you happen to see any of the
embroidered gentlemen's caps?  I want to make one of these my next
project and am working out the pattern.  It seems the bottom turns up
for a brim, but how far does the embroidery extend down the top of the
cap?  Just below the brim?  all the way?  Any shared observations will
be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Catherine
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 10:59:41 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Re:  Ironing Ruffs
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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 10:58:31 -0500
Status: RO

I've put together a few bits I wanted to respond to; I hope this isn't 
confusing:

>Saragrace, it I am understanding the set-up, the board is suspended >upside 
>down so that the flutes hand down to dry...does this make sense?
>Kathleen

Yes, Kathleen, that's it exactly.  The board hangs upside down, suspended 
from the strings at the corners, and the flutes of the ruff hang straight 
down.  It gives the most "loft" to the ruff.  I suppose, if you wanted to 
angle it a bit, you could always jerryrig the board so the ruff dries at an 
angle.  I'll have to experiment with that.

>To Richard:
>Have you any pictures of your starched ruff(s) online?  I'm excited to
>hear of another person who uses this method.
>Melanie Schuessler

Melanie, I apologize, but I don't have any pictures up on the web.  I'm not 
good with pictures generally (ask my friends) and although not really a 
neo-Luddite, I haven't yet put together a web page.  It's certainly 
time...if you would like a picture, I would be happy to scan one of the few 
I have and send it to you.  Let me know.

>So, from my experience, to avoid sticking, let it dry completely. The 
> >leaving in an airtight container or bag after misting very important, 
> >simply dampening and ironing is less effective in getting the wrinkles 
> >out.
>Lisa Sinervo

That's absolutely true; you must let it dry *completely* (and this can take 
a long time; I always allow at least three days before an event to get the 
process started); don't try to iron a ruff still damp from starching.  It's 
a sticky mess.  And you must let it sit, covered up somehow, after spritzing 
so that the moisture wicks all the way through the ruff and dampens all the 
starch completely and evenly, otherwise you can get a very uneven result.  I 
don't dampen them until I am sure I have the time to iron them, to avoid 
mildew.  I store them in a ruff box when ironed, and usually get three or 
four wearings between cleanings.  They can be perked up with an iron 
in-between wearings.

>I don't know his methods particularly, but Master Henry tends always >to 
>look very elegant, even after several days of camping.
>Cecilia Dollmaker

Thank you, lovely Cecilia...I actually haven't been around playing much 
lately, as mundane life has reared its ugly head entirely too frequently.  
I'll try to get out more!

And Margo, your Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe Pattern looks smashing.  A 
wonderful ensemble grouping; all those young bucks now are going to be 
running around looking super, thanks to you and your knowledge....all the 
stuff us old fogeys had to learn for ourselves!

Richard (henry k)

"A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy 
enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 11:06:01 2003
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Medieval patterns on my website
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:18:53 -0600 (CST)
Status: RO


Tasha wrote:
> >I want to ask a question which I'm sure you can answer
> >from experience: Why must the gores be sewn together
> >hypotenuse-to-hypotenuse? It seems like you'd have a
> >greater chance of sagging in the middle, along the
> >bias-to-bias join than you would if you sewed the two
> >gore pieces together grain-to-grain and then attached
> >the hypotenuse sides to the straight-grain tunic
> >pieces. I've done this latter method a number of times
> >with so-called St. Louis tunics as well as Kragelund
> >and Bocksten-style tunics and it's worked well enough
> >in practice for me (and for the wearer, my husband).
> >Have you had a different experience?

Deredere replied:
> It depends on the fabrick but often when I pin a straith grain to a bias 
> cut piece I end up with the bias piece stretching.
> And sometimes after sowing it together ( with sowingmachine) it wrinkels.
> But, maby it is just me.

Nope, it's not just you. I've also found that if you put a straight grain
against a significant angle on a long seam (say, a full-length skirt), you
can end up with the fabric on the angled side stretching sagging against
the other side, which does not stretch. Much depends on the flexibility of
the fabric, of course.

I prefer to match the angles as closely as I can, so the two sides stretch
to the same degree. Sagging is not a problem if you adjust the hems, and
it can give you nice shaping and flexibility in some spots -- say, over
the hips or tush. 

Much has been made of the fact that some of the seams in the Herjolfsnes
garments are angle-to-grain. My impression, though, is that an observation
that this was sometimes the case has been extended by later writers into a
"rule" that somehow improves the flow of the garment. There is, to my
knowledge, no information published on the actual grainlines of the
various pieces in these gowns (though Else Ostergard's upcoming book might
address that). However, if you count the number of edges in the
Herjolfsnes gored gowns and determine which must be straight and which
angled, you discover that mathematically some of the seams must have been
straight-to-angle. Only a formal analysis of all the seams in several of
the gowns would reveal whether there's any deliberate attempt to maximize
or minimize the mismatched-grain seams. 

My suspicion is that the makers probably didn't pay much attention to it,
and put the pieces in where they worked. That's because the angles on the
Herjolfsnes gored garments are rarely more than about 15 degrees -- only a
slight slant that would not make much of a difference in stretch. The
gores on the best-known multi-gore gown (number 38) are only 9 inches wide
at the base, which allows for only the slightest slant on the hypotenuse.
The gores of the St. Louis shirt are also quite narrow. I haven't looked
at other garments with this in mind, but given the use of narrow fabrics
through much of the Middle Ages, I would suspect this is common. And when
broadcloth came into use, it was still only about 36 inches wide.

Today, with fabrics ranging from 45 to 60 inches in width, it's tempting
to cut large gores to make best use of the fabric and minimize the number
of seams, but the resulting angles on the seams are not going to reflect
what was done in the period, and the effects may be different.

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 11:41:58 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 0n-line source for hats
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:41:39 -0800
Status: RO

Dirty Billy's Hatsooo, they even have those flat-crowned 18th century
women's straw hats!  must purchase!

Thanks Sue!

- Kendra

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 12:33:51 2003
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: fabric widths was  [h-cost] Re: Medieval patterns on my website
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:31:54 -0000
Status: RO

Robin wrote:

> Today, with fabrics ranging from 45 to 60 inches in width, it's
tempting
> to cut large gores to make best use of the fabric and minimize the
number
> of seams, but the resulting angles on the seams are not going to
reflect
> what was done in the period, and the effects may be different.

Can you clarify your thought on the maximum widths of wool cloth
available in the 14th century? I have seen references to the 'great
measure' of Brussels probably being above 60 inches, linked with
legislative attempts in England to limit the width to 60 inches wide.

best wishes
Stevie


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From: Drea Leed 
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Subject: Re: fabric widths was  [h-cost] Re: Medieval patterns on my website
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:46:02 -0500 (EST)
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>
> Can you clarify your thought on the maximum widths of wool cloth
> available in the 14th century? I have seen references to the 'great
> measure' of Brussels probably being above 60 inches, linked with
> legislative attempts in England to limit the width to 60 inches wide.

As luck would have it, I was just reading an article about the widths of
woolen fabric in the 14th century, last night.  The author talked about
how the broad loom was in use by the mid-1300s, which could produce fabric
about 60 inches wide.  Unfulled, though, so that may not be an accurate
measurement for finished, fulled cloth.  Only wool cloth was mentioned; no
idea if it also applied to linen, but from what I recall linen
traditionally came in narrower widths.

Hope this helps,

Drea

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Thread-Topic: fabric widths was  [h-cost] Re: Medieval patterns on my website
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:55:39 -0800
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<>

Drea, can you give us the citation info on this source?  I'll add to my stash of info.

Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been digging into it for a current project and haven't come up with anything specific.

Thanks!

Colleen

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Subject: [h-cost] Vintage Unknown Cloth Nightgown? Undergarment
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:17:51 -0000
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Hi all,

This "Vintage Unknown Cloth Nightgown? Undergarment'  is at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2807757123&category
=20308

Has anyone any idea what on earth this is?

best wishes
Stevie

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From: "Talia" 
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:17:57 -0600
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I'm not Drea, but...I remember reading *somewhere* that loom widths (at
least in Italy) were up to 103" which would mean that you could certainly
get decent fulled widths. I'll dig through all the stuff I have stashed away
and see what I can come up with...

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Colleen McDonald
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:56 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths


<>

Drea, can you give us the citation info on this source?  I'll add to my
stash of info.

Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been digging into it for
a current project and haven't come up with anything specific.

Thanks!

Colleen

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: fabric widths was  [h-cost] Re: Medieval patterns on my website
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:28:17 -0600 (CST)
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On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote:

> Can you clarify your thought on the maximum widths of wool cloth
> available in the 14th century? I have seen references to the 'great
> measure' of Brussels probably being above 60 inches, linked with
> legislative attempts in England to limit the width to 60 inches wide.

I'd be interested in seeing solid sources for this myself. I'm sure it's
out there buried in import regulations or guild rules, but I have no clue
where to find this except with original documents, and that's not
something I expect to be doing in this lifetime.

In particular, it would be good to know whether the maximum possible
widths were routinely used for dress fabrics as opposed to, say, bed
hangings or chruch decor some other particular use. What's physically
possible may not have been the most practical and thus may not have been
done routinely. Or it may have reflected only the highest-end imported
goods, which may or may not have been available for clothing use by people
below the highest economic levels.

There's also the issue of home-woven or small shop product vs.
factory-woven cloth, as weavers operating a single-person loom are limited
by the width of their arms, whereas multiple weavers on a factory loom can
manage much wider. A factory setup assumes larger facilities, larger
production volume, and larger workforce; not likely that the technology
would be adopted by the average home or village weaver. So you've got the
potential for a distinct class difference, with the upper classes able to
afford wider (most likely imported) factory-made cloth. (This is my
speculation based on what I've picked up over years, but not any formal
research, and I could be way off-base.)

The widest fabrics I've seen mentioned from archaeological sources are
around 36-38 inches. That's by the late 14th century. And I'm not an
expert in this, but every mention I've seen of "new" availability of wide
cloths refers to the late 14th century. I personally think this may be at
the root of some sharp differences in silhouette and cut that become
apparent in the late 14th century; for instance, compare skirt widths from
the Machaut manuscripts of about 1350 (narrow, columnar) with those of the
end of the century and you'll see a rather dramatic change. That could be
done, however, with just the difference between 24 inches and 36 inches. I
don't want to assume it reflected general use of 60 inches.

--Robin

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From: Gwyn Carnegie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Some recent photos of clothes, textiles and
  needlework
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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 10:21:10 -0800
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--=====================_8398312==.ALT
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I do love the early morning RMS shots. It brought back the feel of those 
events exactly.
Fun pic of  Thomas Moore (yes that's really his name) in his "woobie". 
Thanks for sharing!

At 08:37 PM 2/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>I've recently uploaded some photos of my more recent
>projects, along with a bunch of photos of textiles and
>needlework I took while in London last April. There
>are also some photos of the most recent encampment
>held by the Renaissance Military Society (RMS), taken
>by Stephen Jacobson (yeah, the guy from The
>Costumemaker's Art). ;-)
>
>The photos are at:
>http://photos.yahoo.com/snjacobson168
>Enjoy!
>Dawn

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis

--=====================_8398312==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"





I do love the early morning RMS shots. It brought back the feel of those
events exactly.  

Fun pic of  Thomas Moore (yes that's really his name) in his
"woobie". Thanks for sharing!


At 08:37 PM 2/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:


I've recently uploaded some photos
of my more recent

projects, along with a bunch of photos of textiles and

needlework I took while in London last April. There

are also some photos of the most recent encampment

held by the Renaissance Military Society (RMS), taken

by Stephen Jacobson (yeah, the guy from The

Costumemaker's Art). ;-)


The photos are at:

http://photos.yahoo.com/snjacobson168

Enjoy!

Dawn



Gwyn Carnegie

University of California at Davis 




--=====================_8398312==.ALT--

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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:47:05 +0100 (CET)
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On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Robin Netherton wrote:
> Today, with fabrics ranging from 45 to 60 inches in width, it's tempting
> to cut large gores to make best use of the fabric and minimize the number
> of seams, but the resulting angles on the seams are not going to reflect
> what was done in the period, and the effects may be different.

While I'm not sure that I agree with your statement about medieval
fabric widhts (just as Stevie I've heard of much wider cloth, but  
unfortunately can't find my sources just now so I can't really prove
anything; I'm just making sweeping statements :) ), I have thought a lot 
on this issue about the gores.  

The cuts and patterns for simple medieval dresses I see (and make) most 
frequently are pretty much like the pattern that Derdere posted, or 
Maggie Forest's T-tunic pattern - with straight pieces for the front and 
back, and side and centre gores. As I understand your approach, Robin, 
you more or less start out with four pieces that when put together two 
and to to form the front and back, the skirt is more or less trapezoid 
in form - and side or side and center gores are added as needed. 
Correct? "Two or four gores" is a pretty universal answer to 
construction questions.

Now, here's my problem: I'm broad and hourglass-shaped enough (ca. 
97cm/38in waist with a 119cm/46in hip/belly/butt circumference, at least 
until my new exercise regime pays off ;) ), and short-waisted enough 
that this really doesn't look good at ALL with four narrow gores. I look 
like two pigs in a blanket! :D The look from artwork can be recreated 
passably with four wide gores. I've found that eight narrow gores 
instead of four wide ones, evenly spaced around my abundantly generous 
hips, much better recreates the look than four wide gores. (For the 
record I should state that my main period of focus these days is approx. 
1250-1330 and baggier than the tight-in-the-waist look, but I find this 
true for virtually any design, and more true for tight dresses.)

Now, it's not unreasonable to assume that most medieval women would be 
slimmer than me and that this would not be a widespread problem in 
period. But also, I'm inclined to think that if a look was popular, one 
might make the adjustments necessary to achieve it on each particular 
body (assuming, of course, that looking fashionable in your clothes 
actually was a great incentive - but that's another discussion entirely, 
so I'll just assume for now that it was).

I guess this rambling boils down to: does anyone know of any extant 
garments or other sources that suggest this kind of cut (i.e. with more 
that four triangular gores inserted, not whole panels that narrow at the 
top like some of the Greenland gowns)?

Ingrid

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From: Drea Leed 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:25:03 -0500 (EST)
Status: RO

Sure.  The article was "Textile Technology" by John Munro, in the book
"Textiles, Towns & Trade: Essays in the Economic History of Late Medieval
England and the Low Countries (London: Variorum 1994)

Another absolutely fascinating article in the same book is "The Medieval
Scarlet and the Economics of Sartorial Splendour", also by Munro.  It
examines the whole issue of scarlet in more detail than I'd ever seen,
listing all sorts of prices and widths and facts from Flemish trade books.

These two and a whole bunch of other reeeeeally bad-for-the-budget
articles are in the following bibliography on medieval wool
production:

http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/2MEDCLTH1.pdf

Enjoy,

Drea




On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Colleen McDonald wrote:

> < woolen fabric in the 14th century, last night.  The author talked about
> how the broad loom was in use by the mid-1300s, which could produce fabric
> about 60 inches wide.  Unfulled, though, so that may not be an accurate
> measurement for finished, fulled cloth.  Only wool cloth was mentioned; no
> idea if it also applied to linen, but from what I recall linen
> traditionally came in narrower widths.>>
>
> Drea, can you give us the citation info on this source?  I'll add to my stash of info.
>
> Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been digging into it for a current project and haven't come up with anything specific.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Colleen
>
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From: "Talia" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:34:28 -0600
Status: RO

Okay, here's something interesting for starters, quoted from the following
website:

http://www.damehelen.com/sewing/wool.html


"Table 3.2 in the essay "The Medieval Scarlet" by John Munro (C+C chapter 3)
gives the raw measurement as well as the fulled measurement for the length
and widths of 'scarlet' and other woolens woven in England and the Low
countries between 1282-1554. This table reveals that fabric was fairly
routinely woven in widths between 3 and 4 ‘ells’ wide (one ell = about 27”);
therefore fabrics were woven between 81 and 108 inches wide. After fulling
the width became 54" to 68" wide."

Granted, it's not mentioning linen but I'll keep looking because I'm sure
I've seen it before...

Talia

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 13:37:08 2003
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:50:11 -0600 (CST)
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On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Talia wrote:

> "Table 3.2 in the essay "The Medieval Scarlet" by John Munro (C+C
> chapter 3) gives the raw measurement as well as the fulled measurement
> for the length and widths of 'scarlet' and other woolens woven in
> England and the Low countries between 1282-1554. This table reveals
> that fabric was fairly routinely woven in widths between 3 and 4
> ‘ells’ wide (one ell = about 27”); therefore fabrics were woven
> between 81 and 108 inches wide. After fulling the width became 54" to
> 68" wide."

Thanks for this (and to Drea, for similar cites -- Munro is *the* name is
this line of research).

Any clue what the fabric was designed to be used for, or what class level
it was marketed to?

--Robin



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 13:55:07 2003
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From: Drea Leed 
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:53:44 -0500 (EST)
Status: RO

Scarlet was targeted to the most affluent buyers, but Munro made the point
that wools of lesser value were found in the same widths.

Drea


On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Robin Netherton wrote:

>
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Talia wrote:
>
> > "Table 3.2 in the essay "The Medieval Scarlet" by John Munro (C+C
> > chapter 3) gives the raw measurement as well as the fulled measurement
> > for the length and widths of 'scarlet' and other woolens woven in
> > England and the Low countries between 1282-1554. This table reveals
> > that fabric was fairly routinely woven in widths between 3 and 4
> > ‘ells’ wide (one ell = about 27”); therefore fabrics were woven
> > between 81 and 108 inches wide. After fulling the width became 54" to
> > 68" wide."
>
> Thanks for this (and to Drea, for similar cites -- Munro is *the* name is
> this line of research).
>
> Any clue what the fabric was designed to be used for, or what class level
> it was marketed to?
>
> --Robin
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
References: <20030207080745.16368.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Eagle Scout Project
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:10:00 -0500
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Nicole,

Boy Scouts are the older scouts from 11-17 y.o.  Cub Scouts are the boys in
elementary/primary school.  There are six levels of rank in Boy Scouts.
Eagle Scout is the highest rank in Scouts.  Not many boys achieve this level
because a lot of them drop out of scouts when in high school.  Generally
other things like jobs and a social life become more important. Plus most of
the merit badges required to achieve the Eagle rank are a lot of work.

Patrick is the first of my five sons to come close to achieving this rank.
My other three sons stayed in scouting until they were 18 but didn't come
close to the rank.  Patrick is in three scouts groups, regular scouts, Order
of the Arrow (more of a community service group), and Venture Scouts (they
go rock climbing, cave exploring, white water rafting, etc.).  Venture
allows girls to join the group when they are 14 y.o.  Patrick has worked
three summers at Boy Scout summer camp.  He is one of the camp's nature
specialist.  He takes care of the snakes and skunks... God's little
creatures.  He does shows for the scouts on how to respect the animals.
That's why he wanted to do as his Eagle project with the little Critters
stuffed animals.  He is a big animal lover and wanted to share his passion
for them.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vintage Unknown Cloth Nightgown? Undergarment
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:21:30 -0500
Status: RO

Stevie, My first thought was that it might be a baptism garment for
immersion, but the split sleeve speaks "costume to me. Perhaps an  angel for
a tableau, or an undergarment for a medieval interpretation of that  (1890s)
time period?  I have several garments that were costumes in this time period
and they are often contrivances in fabric and shape, as this piece seems to
be.
Kathleen
  ---- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:17 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Vintage Unknown Cloth Nightgown? Undergarment


> Hi all,
>
> This "Vintage Unknown Cloth Nightgown? Undergarment'  is at:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2807757123&category
> =20308
>
> Has anyone any idea what on earth this is?
>
> best wishes
> Stevie
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:48:34 -0600 (CST)
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On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Drea Leed wrote:

> Scarlet was targeted to the most affluent buyers, but Munro made the
> point that wools of lesser value were found in the same widths.

Thanks. It's that starting date of 1282 for "routine" use of wide widths
that has me most interested. That's earlier than I would have expected,
unless the "routine" came in later (it's not clear from the quote, but
might be from the table). As far as I know, that isn't reflected in
garment finds, though I wonder about non-garment textile use (e.g.
hangings). I mean, we can buy sheeting or quilt backing at 90 inches
today, but that width isn't typical for dress fabrics.

I can't think offhand of any wool finds suggesting widths of over about a
meter, but the archaeological record is pretty scant in the periods I'm
most interested in. I am waiting eagerly for the report from Hull Friary.

> > > "Table 3.2 in the essay "The Medieval Scarlet" by John Munro (C+C
> > > chapter 3) gives the raw measurement as well as the fulled measurement
> > > for the length and widths of 'scarlet' and other woolens woven in
> > > England and the Low countries between 1282-1554. This table reveals
> > > that fabric was fairly routinely woven in widths between 3 and 4
> > > ‘ells’ wide (one ell = about 27”); therefore fabrics were woven
> > > between 81 and 108 inches wide. After fulling the width became 54" to
> > > 68" wide."

--Robin



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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:51:54 -0600
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Since this list uses so many long URLs I thought the members might want
to know about http://tinyurl.com/ .  You cut-n-paste the long URL and
get a short one that won't wrap in email.

For example, the recent:
http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/WorkImage?id=27365&sid=null&group=general&name=britain&start=null&end=null&mda=

becomes:
http://tinyurl.com/5i78

--Charlene

-- 
Thou shalt not bear false witness.  But there are still plenty of true
things that you can say to get your brother in trouble.  -- Raymond
Lesser, 20 Things I Learned from God (or voices inside my head, I'm not
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pregnant portraiture late 16th
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I'm just getting a portrait of a pregnant woman, 1595 by Gheeraerts.  Is 
there more to find?

Jean


Stevie Gamble  wrote
>Hi all,
>People interested in this period are probably aware of this rather
>strange fashion, but the Tate has just acquired a humdinger of the
>genre:
>
>http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/WorkImage?id=27365&sid=null&group=gener
>al&name=britain&start=null&end=null&mda=
>
>This is part of a small exhibition marking the death of Elizabeth in
>1603, and even if this is not your period then the apparent
>contradiction of the Virgin Queen presiding over women almost at the
>point of giving birth is a fascinating example of icon against icon in
>portraiture. The pictures are rather pretty as well:-)
>
>best wishes
>Stevie
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 16:10:39 2003
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pregnant portraiture late 16th
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Jean wrote:


> I'm just getting a portrait of a pregnant woman, 1595 by Gheeraerts.
Is
> there more to find?
>

Yes there is; I'm sorry but the Tate has arranged it rather weirdly,
and I should have given more detail. If you go to

http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/gheeraerts/

you should get the commentary on Gheeraerts and

http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/RoomInfo?group=&name=britain&id=2070

will give you links to other pictures. The 1595 portrait stands out
because it has only recently gone on show, and people on h-cost may
not have come across the image.
The Henry Lee portrait is one of my personal favourites, but only Drea
could write up the spoof article on how the fashion for bare legs and
no shoes swept Elizabethan England following the huge success of
Shakespeare's 'A Midsummer Night's Hobbits' ...

best wishes
Stevie


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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vintage Unknown Cloth Nightgown? Undergarment
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Kathleen wrote


> Stevie, My first thought was that it might be a baptism garment for
> immersion, but the split sleeve speaks "costume to me. Perhaps an
angel for
> a tableau, or an undergarment for a medieval interpretation of that
(1890s)
> time period?  I have several garments that were costumes in this
time period
> and they are often contrivances in fabric and shape, as this piece
seems to
> be.


Thank you! I really, really hate it when I can't work out what
something is, and a late Victorian 'Medieval' costume idea seems to
make a great deal more sense than anything I had thought up :-)

best wishes
Stevie




> > Hi all,
> >
> > This "Vintage Unknown Cloth Nightgown? Undergarment'  is at:
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2807757123&category
> > =20308
> >
> > Has anyone any idea what on earth this is?
> >
> > best wishes
> > Stevie
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 17:19:58 2003
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From: "Luanne Bartholomew" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval patterns on my website
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Nice. You said the gowns were not based on extant garments. What 
about the hood? What is that based on? Do you have a picture of a 
finished hood from this pattern?

Thanks,
Luanne

On 5 Feb 2003, Deredere Galbraith wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I've been working on my website again.
> I made a Dutch website and I put some medieval patterns on my website.
> http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Patterns/Patterns.html
> 
> Please let me know what you think of them.
> Greetings,
>         Deredere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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> 


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To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] victorian hair
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heather wrote:
> I was just reading Kendra's site, and she has a new section
> on Bustle Era hair styles.  I'm going to be making a bustle dress
> for my costuming class this term, so this is PERFECT timing.
> She even wrote up a how-to section...
> 
> http://demode.tweedlebop.com/vic_hair.html  for the info!

Wow, I had a great time with these pages!  I'm sitting here now with my
hair up kind of like this:
http://demode.tweedlebop.com/hair_images/1871_2.jpg

I parted it at the centre front, brought it back into a kind of double
bun-twist-thingy at the top of my head, then sectioned the back into 3
vertical areas and curled each one in place and held it with pins.  

I took some photos (mostly because I can't see the back of my own head,
and couldn't find the hand mirror, so the digicam was the best
solution!) and I've put them up if anyone's interested:
http://infotrope.net/album/?dir=/camera/2003-02-07

Not bad for five minutes with a handful of bobby pins, huh!?

K.

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vintage Unknown Cloth Nightgown? Undergarment
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My thought was some sort of Ethic shift.

susan

 > This "Vintage Unknown Cloth Nightgown? Undergarment'  is at:
 >
 >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2807757123&category
=20308
>
 > Has anyone any idea what on earth this is?
 >
 > best wishes
> Stevie

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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: 
References: <55B627C8-3A3E-11D7-B26A-00039369A97A@wonderland.com> 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] victorian hair
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:47:43 -0800
Status: RO

Wow, that looks great!  I really want to add some step by step instructions,
but I have to actually DO my hair to take the photos!

- Kendra
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirrily Robert" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] victorian hair




> Wow, I had a great time with these pages!  I'm sitting here now with my
> hair up kind of like this:
> http://demode.tweedlebop.com/hair_images/1871_2.jpg
>
> I parted it at the centre front, brought it back into a kind of double
> bun-twist-thingy at the top of my head, then sectioned the back into 3
> vertical areas and curled each one in place and held it with pins.
>
> I took some photos (mostly because I can't see the back of my own head,
> and couldn't find the hand mirror, so the digicam was the best
> solution!) and I've put them up if anyone's interested:
> http://infotrope.net/album/?dir=/camera/2003-02-07
>
> Not bad for five minutes with a handful of bobby pins, huh!?

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 18:51:46 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] long URLs
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:51:38 -0800
Status: RO

May I recommend, though, that if you use tinyurl you include the LONG  
url in the mail
as well, for the archives?

I certainly keep most of my hcostume mails with good URLs in them, in  
case I
lose my bookmarks.

.heather.


On Friday, February 7, 2003, at 11:51 AM, Charlene Charette wrote:

> Since this list uses so many long URLs I thought the members might want
> to know about http://tinyurl.com/ .  You cut-n-paste the long URL and
> get a short one that won't wrap in email.
>
> For example, the recent:
> http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/ 
> WorkImage?id=27365&sid=null&group=general&name=britain&start=null&end=n 
> ull&mda=
>
> becomes:
> http://tinyurl.com/5i78
>
> --Charlene
>
> -- 
> Thou shalt not bear false witness.  But there are still plenty of true
> things that you can say to get your brother in trouble.  -- Raymond
> Lesser, 20 Things I Learned from God (or voices inside my head, I'm not
> sure which, yet)
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:07:09 -0800
Status: RO

well, you're welcome to do mine instead...

;)


On Friday, February 7, 2003, at 02:47 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote:

> Wow, that looks great!  I really want to add some step by step 
> instructions,
> but I have to actually DO my hair to take the photos!
>
> - Kendra
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirrily Robert" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] victorian hair
>
>
> 
>
>> Wow, I had a great time with these pages!  I'm sitting here now with 
>> my
>> hair up kind of like this:
>> http://demode.tweedlebop.com/hair_images/1871_2.jpg
>>
>> I parted it at the centre front, brought it back into a kind of double
>> bun-twist-thingy at the top of my head, then sectioned the back into 3
>> vertical areas and curled each one in place and held it with pins.
>>
>> I took some photos (mostly because I can't see the back of my own 
>> head,
>> and couldn't find the hand mirror, so the digicam was the best
>> solution!) and I've put them up if anyone's interested:
>> http://infotrope.net/album/?dir=/camera/2003-02-07
>>
>> Not bad for five minutes with a handful of bobby pins, huh!?
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 20:19:48 2003
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Catherine wrote:

<>

Unfortunately, no. I was racing through the museum
like a crazy woman as it was, and concentrated on the
16th C. canvas needlework (I'm currently working on a
very thorough study of 16th C. tent-stitch
embroidery); the only reason I have the blackwork
photos is because somebody on another list asked me to
get some photos of the coifs as her photos didn't come
out when she was there.

I really need about a week to go through all the
frames in the textile collection. 8-/

Dawn
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb  7 20:48:49 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Straw cloth
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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 19:46:59 -0600
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Does anyone know of a good retail source for straw cloth, preferably in
the United States?

Vicki Betts
vbetts@gower.net



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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian underpinnings and erotic photography
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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 18:18:51 -0800
Status: RO

Of course they're authentic.  They're what the models owned, or what the 
photographer could buy anywhere.  I'd say 1900-1910, but some of the photos 
don't help a lot.  The hair on the women's heads is the only clue in some 
cases...

Kirrily Robert writes, in a message sent 11:27 PM 12/29/02 -0500:
>As the subject line suggests, this message involves adult themes.  If
>this bothers you, please skip this message.
>
>I was looking for Victorian-era "French postcards" (i.e. erotic/nude
>photography) and came across a site with some fairly explicit
>photographs apparently dating to the late 19th century.  However, this
>isn't my period, so I was wondering if anyone here would like to take a
>look at the site and tell me what you think of their clothes (mostly
>you'll see underpinnings, both male and female, as well as some outer
>garments on the men) and whether you think the pictures are authentic,
>and when you'd date them to.
>
>The website is: http://www.insenses.org/virtualboxon/index.htm
>Of course this site contains ADULT CONTENT and is actually quite
>explicit, moreso than the average Victorian nude photos.  You have been
>warned.  But please, if you are into that sort of thing and would like
>to take a look, let me know what you think of the clothes.
>
>Feel free to respond off-list if you would prefer.
>
>Yours,
>
>Kirrily
>(SCA: Katherine Rowberd)
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


Kayta

    //// \\\
   ////-@@\\\
  ((((   7 )))
   (((  <> ))))
      )   ((((((
/----\   /---\))

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 02:01:53 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Trial and Error
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 02:01:58 -0500
Status: RO

I am wanting to try something different on some fashion plates. I would like
for some of you to look at the first plate and let me know what you think.
The plate is at:
http://www.costumegallery.com/1882/Petersons/april.htm  To test this site,
you must have JavaScript enabled on your browser.

When at the webpage, place your cursor over the first lady on the left
(green dress).  DO NOT CLICK on her.  A text box will open called a tooltip.
In the box will be the description of that dress.  It is a little lengthy.
The problem is that this function is timed and will disappear after about 10
seconds.  For the visitor to read the whole description they will need to
pass their cursor on the lady 2-3 times.  Is this too much of a hassle?

I wanted to know which would you prefer... this method or a real popup box
to come up with just the description?

Please write me personally with your opinion at penny@costumegallery.com .

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 04:49:48 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trial and Error
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:48:58 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Penny Ladnier  wrote: > I am wanting to try
something different on some fashion plates. I would like
> for some of you to look at the first plate and let me know what you think.
> The plate is at:
> http://www.costumegallery.com/1882/Petersons/april.htm  To test this site,
> you must have JavaScript enabled on your browser.
> 
> When at the webpage, place your cursor over the first lady on the left
> (green dress).  DO NOT CLICK on her.  A text box will open called a tooltip.
> In the box will be the description of that dress.  It is a little lengthy.
> The problem is that this function is timed and will disappear after about 10
> seconds.  For the visitor to read the whole description they will need to
> pass their cursor on the lady 2-3 times.  Is this too much of a hassle?
>
It doesn't work at all in Netscape 7 (no pop ups). Just as a tip, it isn't
accessible at all for people with sight imparment who use screen readers, also,
there are a lot of people who have java script disabled. I personally wouldn't
bother, if I went to a sight where I can't actually read the text on the page I
would leave the sight and not bother.

Just my tuppence

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 05:48:58 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: embroidered male caps photos, was Re: [h-cost] Re: Recent photos and question
To: h-costume@indra.com
In-Reply-To: <20030208011952.9881.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com>
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 10:41:22 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Jacobson Dawn  wrote: > Catherine wrote:
> 
> < any of the
> embroidered gentlemen's caps?  I want to make one of
> these my next
> project and am working out the pattern.  It seems the
> bottom turns up
> for a brim, but how far does the embroidery extend
> down the top of the
> cap?  Just below the brim?  all the way?  Any shared
> observations will
> be greatly appreciated.>>

Yes, here are photos which I took some years back in the V&A:

http://www.kipar.org/costumes_survive_male1.html

I made one of those for ben. The brim doesn't just turn up, well, it does, but
it's not the underside that is embroidered, but it's better to have a band on
top of the turned over bit which is embroidered. Ugh, makes sense?
Bummer! I thought I had a picture of him wearing it but I only have one of me
making it:

http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/Kirby_nic1.JPG

Nicole


=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 12:44:54 2003
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        I would love to meet Patrick.  He sounds like a really great kid.
 If I can scrounge up a ten bucks I will adopt one of his critters. 
Right now that seems like a ton of money, but I may get lucky with my
dolls at the next event.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 13:26:43 2003
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From: "Nancy Kiel" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: embroidered male caps photos, was Re: [h-cost] Re: Recent photos and
 question
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Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 13:26:50 -0500
Status: RO

There's a good picture of an embroidered cap in Maggie Gosseler (sp?)'s 
blackwork book.



Nancy Kiel
nancy_kiel@hotmail.com
Never tease a weasel!
This is very good advice.
For the weasel will not like it
And teasing isn't nice.





>From: N Kipar 
>Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com
>To: h-costume@indra.com
>Subject: embroidered male caps photos, was Re: [h-cost] Re: Recent photos 
>and question
>Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 10:41:22 +0000 (GMT)
>
>  --- Jacobson Dawn  wrote: > Catherine wrote:
> >
> > < > any of the
> > embroidered gentlemen's caps?  I want to make one of
> > these my next
> > project and am working out the pattern.  It seems the
> > bottom turns up
> > for a brim, but how far does the embroidery extend
> > down the top of the
> > cap?  Just below the brim?  all the way?  Any shared
> > observations will
> > be greatly appreciated.>>
>
>Yes, here are photos which I took some years back in the V&A:
>
>http://www.kipar.org/costumes_survive_male1.html
>
>I made one of those for ben. The brim doesn't just turn up, well, it does, 
>but
>it's not the underside that is embroidered, but it's better to have a band 
>on
>top of the turned over bit which is embroidered. Ugh, makes sense?
>Bummer! I thought I had a picture of him wearing it but I only have one of 
>me
>making it:
>
>http://www.kipar.org/h-costume/Kirby_nic1.JPG
>
>Nicole
>
>
>=====
>Nicole Kipar M.A.
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/
>Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Everything you'll ever need on one web page
>from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
>http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 13:50:46 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trial and Error
From: sylvia 
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Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 11:18:54 -0700
Status: RO

on 2/8/03 12:01 AM, Penny Ladnier at penny@costumegallery.com wrote:

> I am wanting to try something different on some fashion plates. I would like
> for some of you to look at the first plate and let me know what you think.
> The plate is at:
> http://www.costumegallery.com/1882/Petersons/april.htm  To test this site,
> you must have JavaScript enabled on your browser.
> 
> When at the webpage, place your cursor over the first lady on the left
> (green dress).  DO NOT CLICK on her.  A text box will open called a tooltip.
> In the box will be the description of that dress.  It is a little lengthy.
> The problem is that this function is timed and will disappear after about 10
> seconds.  For the visitor to read the whole description they will need to
> pass their cursor on the lady 2-3 times.  Is this too much of a hassle?
> 
> I wanted to know which would you prefer... this method or a real popup box
> to come up with just the description?
> 
It was too fast for me to read the whole thing.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 13:56:42 2003
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From: "Nancy Kiel" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork and sashes
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Two separate questions:  1) I am doing blackwork on a shift and want to 
embroider the body of the garment, but the linen is too fine to count and 
using waste cloth doesn't really work for this.  Any suggestions?  Can I 
just embroider without counting?
2) In a number of paintings, Quinten metsys' Deposition Altarpiece for one, 
but also in association with the gamurra, the lady has a belt or sash that 
appears to be a long piece of fabric all wrinkled up (the start of Fortuny, 
perhaps) along the length of the piece.  Any suggestions as to what the 
fabric might be?



Nancy Kiel
nancy_kiel@hotmail.com
Never tease a weasel!
This is very good advice.
For the weasel will not like it
And teasing isn't nice.







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Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 13:10:13 -0600
Status: RO

Penny,
What a great idea!
You've got a good kid there. 
I've already sent my $10 to adopt a critter.
Let us know how many critters his troupe ends up giving away.

Sheryl Nance-Durst

At 12:28 AM 2/7/03 -0500, you wrote:
>Please forgive me for being off-topic.  So many of you are like family to me
>and my family, and I thought you would like to know about this wonderful
>project.


>Patrick is going to run an Adopt a Critter program.  He will be asking
>people adopt one or more of these 12 critters for $10 each. The Scouts in
>his troop will stuff them and then donate them to the children's cancer and
>terminal diseases wards at the four major hospitals in the Richmond,
>Virginia
>Metro.
>
>Ben Franklin's has agreed to give Patrick a 20% discount off of the retail
>cost of the critters and the supplies.  The manager at Ben Franklin's was
>about to cry when Pat told her what his Eagle Scout project was.  Patrick's
>goal is to give at least 50 critters to the hospitals.  Ben Franklin's told
>Patrick that they would make sure they had a supply of as many critters that
>he needed.
>
>Patrick is looking for organizations, businesses, and individuals who
>want to Adopt a Critter.  You get to choose which critter you want to adopt.
>If you or someone you know, wants to Adopt a Critter, go to
>http://www.crittercrafts.com/crittercrafts/  and decide which Critter you
>want to adopt.  Then send a payment via Paypal, www.paypal.com  to the email
>address, adoptacritter@costumegallery.com .  In the message part, please let
>Patrick know your name or organization, and which Critter you want to adopt.
>
>Patrick has three months to accept donations.  Then the Scouts will start
>making them.


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 14:27:45 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trial and Error
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 14:28:41 -0500
Status: RO

Thanks Sylvia for you input.  I always like to know what people think before
I try something new widespread on my site.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "sylvia" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trial and Error


> on 2/8/03 12:01 AM, Penny Ladnier at penny@costumegallery.com wrote:
>
> > I am wanting to try something different on some fashion plates. I would
like
> > for some of you to look at the first plate and let me know what you
think.
> > The plate is at:
> > http://www.costumegallery.com/1882/Petersons/april.htm  To test this
site,
> > you must have JavaScript enabled on your browser.
> >
> > When at the webpage, place your cursor over the first lady on the left
> > (green dress).  DO NOT CLICK on her.  A text box will open called a
tooltip.
> > In the box will be the description of that dress.  It is a little
lengthy.
> > The problem is that this function is timed and will disappear after
about 10
> > seconds.  For the visitor to read the whole description they will need
to
> > pass their cursor on the lady 2-3 times.  Is this too much of a hassle?
> >
> > I wanted to know which would you prefer... this method or a real popup
box
> > to come up with just the description?
> >
> It was too fast for me to read the whole thing.
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 14:56:49 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Eagle Scout Project
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 14:57:03 -0500
Status: RO

Lalah,

I forgot to mention this in my first message.  On the first page of the
Critter's storybook is printed... My Guardian Angel is: ___________________
Some people are dedicating the Angel as a loved one who has or had cancer or
for a scout they know.
We are writing in the name of whoever the people adopting the critter wants.

Patrick is a very special young man who is very playful and has a kind
heart.  He still has all of his stuffed animals in his bed and he is 17yo.
He runs across some of the people I know from online when he works at the
Boy Scout National Jamboree.  Right now he is away for the weekend on his
confirmation retreat.  Patrick doesn't know that seven critters have been
adopted while he has been gone.  He is in for a big surprise when he comes
back home tomorrow.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 15:30:47 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Eagle Scout Project
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 15:31:34 -0500
Status: RO

Sheryl,

I will let you know the final number of critters when they complete the
project.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sheryl Nance-Durst" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Eagle Scout Project


> Penny,
> What a great idea!
> You've got a good kid there. 
> I've already sent my $10 to adopt a critter.
> Let us know how many critters his troupe ends up giving away.
>
> Sheryl Nance-Durst
>
> At 12:28 AM 2/7/03 -0500, you wrote:
> >Please forgive me for being off-topic.  So many of you are like family to
me
> >and my family, and I thought you would like to know about this wonderful
> >project.
> 
>
> >Patrick is going to run an Adopt a Critter program.  He will be asking
> >people adopt one or more of these 12 critters for $10 each. The Scouts in
> >his troop will stuff them and then donate them to the children's cancer
and
> >terminal diseases wards at the four major hospitals in the Richmond,
> >Virginia
> >Metro.
> >
> >Ben Franklin's has agreed to give Patrick a 20% discount off of the
retail
> >cost of the critters and the supplies.  The manager at Ben Franklin's was
> >about to cry when Pat told her what his Eagle Scout project was.
Patrick's
> >goal is to give at least 50 critters to the hospitals.  Ben Franklin's
told
> >Patrick that they would make sure they had a supply of as many critters
that
> >he needed.
> >
> >Patrick is looking for organizations, businesses, and individuals who
> >want to Adopt a Critter.  You get to choose which critter you want to
adopt.
> >If you or someone you know, wants to Adopt a Critter, go to
> >http://www.crittercrafts.com/crittercrafts/  and decide which Critter you
> >want to adopt.  Then send a payment via Paypal, www.paypal.com  to the
email
> >address, adoptacritter@costumegallery.com .  In the message part, please
let
> >Patrick know your name or organization, and which Critter you want to
adopt.
> >
> >Patrick has three months to accept donations.  Then the Scouts will start
> >making them.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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From: Sue Clemenger 
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Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 13:32:26 -0700
Status: RO

When I got to go to the Costume Museum (CM) in Bath, last fall, I spent
quite a lot of time groveling at the feet of something I've long
worshipped (okay, I was sitting, out of the way, on the floor in front
of the display case that held the Elizabethan-embroidered stuff).  The
CM is pretty well known for its two extant blackworked shirts, or what
I'd always thought were shirts--one of them is now known, in fact, to be
a woman's shift (it's really obvious when you can see the whole
thing--instead of having body-pieces that are rectangular, this one
widens quite a bit (making a trapezoidal shape, I'd guess ).
It's the one on the right in this picture....
http://costume.dm.net/bath/bathsmocks.jpg
I was quite thrilled to note this, since I adore blackwork, and don't
have any gentlemen for whom to embroider.  Also, this has long been one
of my favorite extant garments.  Just 'cuz .
The point is (there is one, actually, ) is that the woman's shift
did this, as nearly as I can tell, without gores.  One piece for the
front, and one for the back.  The garments' case was lit in such a way
that seams and such were obvious (to me) as shadows and lines, and there
just weren't any in the body of this garment.
The width of the garment at its hem far exceeds what I've always thought
of as the standard, fairly-narrow width for linen fabrics.  Ergo, this
garment, at least, is made from wider linen. While this of course is
just one example of fine linen from the end of the 16th/early 17th c.,
and can't be assumed to be representative of all linens use in Europe in
the Middle Ages and Renaissance, it certainly does show that it *was*
done.
Someday, I'd love to be able to examine these garments without glass in
between them and me....*sigh*  And maybe even take pictures....*double
sigh*
--Sue, beginning to think of that museum as a sort of Mecca for herself
(well, and Bath is cool, too!)

Colleen McDonald wrote:
> 

> Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been digging into it for a current project and haven't come up with anything specific.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Colleen
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Subject: [h-cost] 3+ Yds Bright Blue Rayon Brocade Material
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 21:17:12 -0000
Status: RO

Hi all,

I recall someone wanting a  non-authentic brocade, and this item on
Ebay closes in just over an hour or so

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29818&item=3204
621680

Present high bid is $5, so it may be worth a look...

best wishes
Stevie

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Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 13:06:55 -0800
Status: RO

I like the concept but I agree with Sylvia. I had to move my mouse off and back on 
the image several times before I could read the whole thing. There must be a way to 
control how long the mouse-over window stays up. 

-Luanne

On 8 Feb 2003, sylvia wrote:

> It was too fast for me to read the whole thing.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 16:14:51 2003
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From: Kate Pinner 
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Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:14:06 -0500
Status: RO


It stayed up long enough to read on my screen, but the lines were too long and I couldn't read
the ends of them. (Does that make sense?)
Kate

> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sylvia" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 1:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trial and Error
>
> > on 2/8/03 12:01 AM, Penny Ladnier at penny@costumegallery.com wrote:
> >
> > > I am wanting to try something different on some fashion plates. I would
> like
> > > for some of you to look at the first plate and let me know what you
> think.
> > > The plate is at:
> > > http://www.costumegallery.com/1882/Petersons/april.htm  To test this
> site,
> > > you must have JavaScript enabled on your browser.
> > >
> > > When at the webpage, place your cursor over the first lady on the left
> > > (green dress).  DO NOT CLICK on her.  A text box will open called a
> tooltip.
> > > In the box will be the description of that dress.  It is a little
> lengthy.
> > > The problem is that this function is timed and will disappear after
> about 10
> > > seconds.  For the visitor to read the whole description they will need
> to
> > > pass their cursor on the lady 2-3 times.  Is this too much of a hassle?
> > >
> > > I wanted to know which would you prefer... this method or a real popup
> box
> > > to come up with just the description?
> > >
> > It was too fast for me to read the whole thing.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
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> >
> >
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 16:41:46 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Thank you!!!!!!!
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:41:54 -0500
Status: RO

Thank you everyone for the input.  It is nice to have a group to ask who
will give their honest opinions.  I have had some people really like it but
the majority did not.  I think on this Year in Fashion, I am going to try
both methods, the passover and popups.  Since it is an image map, I have
that option.

I am working on a my Color Names project for this Year in Fashion.  I am
pulling all the color names and putting them into a table with their costume
usage.  Some of you remember my color names project from when I was a
college student.  In the color table, there is a three or four word
description of the costume that the color was used on.  I will make a link
to the same popup box with a small picture of the costume and full
description.  Killing two birds with one stone.

I have made two trips to the Library of Congress to get these costume
descriptions.  I have 11 of 12 plates from this year.  Last weekend I
FINALLY got the descriptions after spending the whole day at the LOC.  Their
microfilm readers are the pits.  My husband was working on them to get them
work, since they are short of help in this area of the LOC.  I did obtain
permission to use the descriptions from the Women Studies Director.  She was
really excited about what I am doing with the site.  We had fun doing a
show-n-tell with one another's websites.

Last summer I spend three and a half hours running better three buildings at
the LOC to get a card to research.  Each time going through a lot of
security.  By the time we got our cards, the Library was closing.  WARNING:
If you go to the LOC plan to spend the whole day, get there early, and get
your card first.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 17:05:43 2003
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pregnant portraiture late 16th
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 22:04:07 +0000
Status: RO

Aha.  That makes more sense, thanks.  I was actually quite familiar with 
the 1595 portrait, it's in Ashelford's Visual History of costume - 16th 
century, although there it's attributed to W Segar.

The lady in red looks much more elegant and comfortable, but what about 
lady Harington:
  http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/AWork?group=&name=britain&id=5134

Has anyone seen this picture in real life?  It's so black online that 
you can't see where the rest of the dress goes, but the stomacher (if 
you can still call it that) goes lower than the tips of her fingers - 
halfway to her knees! Are there other examples of stomachers quite so 
long, and how does it fit with the skirt?  I'm wondering if this is 
perhaps another pregnancy style with a loose gown that doesn't have a 
waistline?

Jean

Stevie Gamble  wrote
>Jean wrote:
>
>
>> I'm just getting a portrait of a pregnant woman, 1595 by Gheeraerts.
>Is
>> there more to find?
>>
>
>Yes there is; I'm sorry but the Tate has arranged it rather weirdly,
>and I should have given more detail. If you go to
>
>http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/gheeraerts/
>
>you should get the commentary on Gheeraerts and
>
>http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/RoomInfo?group=&name=britain&id=2070
>
>will give you links to other pictures. The 1595 portrait stands out
>because it has only recently gone on show, and people on h-cost may
>not have come across the image.
>The Henry Lee portrait is one of my personal favourites, but only Drea
>could write up the spoof article on how the fashion for bare legs and
>no shoes swept Elizabethan England following the huge success of
>Shakespeare's 'A Midsummer Night's Hobbits' ...
>
>best wishes
>Stevie
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 17:24:44 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pregnant portraiture late 16th
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 22:33:52 -0000
Status: RO

Jean wrote,

 Re: [h-cost] Pregnant portraiture late 16th


> Aha.  That makes more sense, thanks.  I was actually quite familiar
with
> the 1595 portrait, it's in Ashelford's Visual History of costume -
16th
> century, although there it's attributed to W Segar.

Yes, I think Ashelford was the first dress historian I came across who
mentioned the pregnancy potraits, though she may well have been
depending on someone else's work. I don't have her book to hand
tonight to compare; do you think the restoration of the portrait has
uncovered further detail?


best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb  8 20:22:55 2003
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From: Cynthia J Ley 
Subject: [h-cost] blackworked smocks (was RE: fabric widths)
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:58:36 -0800
Status: RO

Hi. Could you please give a better citation for this site? Do they have a
home URL?The photo's are wonderful. :-)

Thanks,
Arlys, drooling and getting inspired

On Sat, 08 Feb 2003 13:32:26 -0700 Sue Clemenger 
writes:
> When I got to go to the Costume Museum (CM) in Bath, last fall, I 
> spent
> quite a lot of time groveling at the feet of something I've long
> worshipped (okay, I was sitting, out of the way, on the floor in 
> front
> of the display case that held the Elizabethan-embroidered stuff).  
> The
> CM is pretty well known for its two extant blackworked shirts, or 
> what
> I'd always thought were shirts--one of them is now known, in fact, 
> to be
> a woman's shift (it's really obvious when you can see the whole
> thing--instead of having body-pieces that are rectangular, this one
> widens quite a bit (making a trapezoidal shape, I'd guess ).
> It's the one on the right in this picture....
> http://costume.dm.net/bath/bathsmocks.jpg
> I was quite thrilled to note this, since I adore blackwork, and 
> don't
> have any gentlemen for whom to embroider.  Also, this has long been 
> one
> of my favorite extant garments.  Just 'cuz .
> The point is (there is one, actually, ) is that the woman's 
> shift
> did this, as nearly as I can tell, without gores.  One piece for the
> front, and one for the back.  The garments' case was lit in such a 
> way
> that seams and such were obvious (to me) as shadows and lines, and 
> there
> just weren't any in the body of this garment.
> The width of the garment at its hem far exceeds what I've always 
> thought
> of as the standard, fairly-narrow width for linen fabrics.  Ergo, 
> this
> garment, at least, is made from wider linen. While this of course is
> just one example of fine linen from the end of the 16th/early 17th 
> c.,
> and can't be assumed to be representative of all linens use in 
> Europe in
> the Middle Ages and Renaissance, it certainly does show that it 
> *was*
> done.
> Someday, I'd love to be able to examine these garments without glass 
> in
> between them and me....*sigh*  And maybe even take 
> pictures....*double
> sigh*
> --Sue, beginning to think of that museum as a sort of Mecca for 
> herself
> (well, and Bath is cool, too!)
> 
> Colleen McDonald wrote:
> > 
> 
> > Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been digging 
> into it for a current project and haven't come up with anything 
> specific.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > Colleen
> _______________________________________________
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Bella?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pregnant portraiture late 16th
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:24:18 +1100 (EST)
Status: RO

 --- Jean Waddie  wrote:
> but what about 
> lady Harington:
>  

 
> Has anyone seen this picture in real life?  It's so
> black online that 
> you can't see where the rest of the dress goes, but
> the stomacher (if 
> you can still call it that) goes lower than the tips
> of her fingers - 
> halfway to her knees! Are there other examples of
> stomachers quite so 
> long, and how does it fit with the skirt?  I'm
> wondering if this is 
> perhaps another pregnancy style with a loose gown
> that doesn't have a 
> waistline?


Jean, here is a clearer picture, which looks as if
Lady Harington is wearing a /drum/french/wheel
farthingale:





Bella

http://greetings.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Greetings
- Send some online love this Valentine's Day.
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Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 17:39:58 -0800
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Doesn't work at all in Opera or Safari browsers.



On Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 10:18 AM, sylvia wrote:

> on 2/8/03 12:01 AM, Penny Ladnier at penny@costumegallery.com wrote:
>
>> I am wanting to try something different on some fashion plates. I 
>> would like
>> for some of you to look at the first plate and let me know what you 
>> think.
>> The plate is at:
>> http://www.costumegallery.com/1882/Petersons/april.htm  To test this 
>> site,
>> you must have JavaScript enabled on your browser.
>>
>> When at the webpage, place your cursor over the first lady on the left
>> (green dress).  DO NOT CLICK on her.  A text box will open called a 
>> tooltip.
>> In the box will be the description of that dress.  It is a little 
>> lengthy.
>> The problem is that this function is timed and will disappear after 
>> about 10
>> seconds.  For the visitor to read the whole description they will 
>> need to
>> pass their cursor on the lady 2-3 times.  Is this too much of a 
>> hassle?
>>
>> I wanted to know which would you prefer... this method or a real 
>> popup box
>> to come up with just the description?
>>
> It was too fast for me to read the whole thing.
>
> _______________________________________________
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Cynthia J Ley wrote:
> 
> Hi. Could you please give a better citation for this site? Do they have a
> home URL?The photo's are wonderful. :-)

That's Drea's wonderful Elizabethan Costuming site.  (She often posts to
h-cost.)  The main page is at
http://costume.dm.net/

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 00:01:48 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] 1901 shirtwaist
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Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 21:00:12 -0800
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I am getting in with a living history group that does exactly 1901, as 
opposed to 1900 or 1902.  I have in mind a walking suit with a 
straight-sleeved Eton jacket, of a style common from about 1898 to abut 
1905.  But I'm a costume snob, and want to do a 1901 shirtwaist to wear 
with the suit.  And the closest I can come, from books I have at home, is 
my 1902 Sears catalog reprint.

Can anyone point me to an online image of a shirtwaist documentable to 
exactly 1901 (more than one would be good)?  If it has insertion lace, this 
would be a plus, because I'm a hand-sewing snob too.  I especially want to 
see the range of sleeve-heads, cuffs, and collar heights.

Kayta

    //// \\\
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/----\   /---\))

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 00:15:45 2003
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Thanks, Melanie...you beat me to it .
--sue

Melanie Schuessler wrote:
> 
> Cynthia J Ley wrote:
> >
> > Hi. Could you please give a better citation for this site? Do they have a
> > home URL?The photo's are wonderful. :-)
> 
> That's Drea's wonderful Elizabethan Costuming site.  (She often posts to
> h-cost.)  The main page is at
> http://costume.dm.net/
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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I can't find this word in a dictionary........ please help, I think it is a
color name but I want to be sure.

"GRENAT"

It is used in a 1882 Delineator magazine article about dress materials.  Two
examples of usage:

1. All the grenat shades, Lincoln Green, Russian blue, ... form the line of
coloring.
2. Grenat velvet is one of the darkest shades used for evening wear.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 01:57:42 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 01:54:43 -0500
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I found it in an 1883 issue of the magazine.  In the Questions and Answers
Column, someone asked "What color is grenat?"  Answer: "It is a deep shade
of garnet."  Funny it was mentioned so much in the Sept. 1882 article and
someone asked what it was in the March 1883 issue.  And here I am 120 years
later asking the same question.

I guess I need to start reading the Q&A sections of the magazine.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1901 shirtwaist
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to Kayta:

This is the only image that fits the 1901 specific date.

http://www.marquise.de/en/1900/pics/1900/1901_1.shtml

Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

> I am getting in with a living history group that does exactly 1901, as 
> opposed to 1900 or 1902.  I have in mind a walking suit with a 
> straight-sleeved Eton jacket, of a style common from about 1898 to abut 
> 1905.  But I'm a costume snob, and want to do a 1901 shirtwaist to wear 
> with the suit.  And the closest I can come, from books I have at home, 
> is my 1902 Sears catalog reprint.
> 
> Can anyone point me to an online image of a shirtwaist documentable to 
> exactly 1901 (more than one would be good)?  If it has insertion lace, 
> this would be a plus, because I'm a hand-sewing snob too.  I especially 
> want to see the range of sleeve-heads, cuffs, and collar heights.
> 
> Kayta
> 
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Jean Waddie wrote:

> The lady in red looks much more elegant and comfortable, but what about
> lady Harington:
>   http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/AWork?group=&name=britain&id=5134

Here is a better view of it: 
http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm

--Charlene

-- 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Penny Ladnier wrote:
> 
> I can't find this word in a dictionary........ please help, I think it is a
> color name but I want to be sure.
> 
> "GRENAT"

According to the OED:  "Of a deep red colour, like that of garnet."

--Charlene

-- 
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things that you can say to get your brother in trouble.  -- Raymond
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Here's a gem page in french that uses the word "grenat" in association 
with all the different shades of garnets... but I don't see where 
Russian blue could be a garnet shade.  The mystery continues.

http://www.geminterest.com/inclist.php?gem=Grenat%20Tsavorite

Theresa Eacker

Penny Ladnier wrote:

> I can't find this word in a dictionary........ please help, I think it is a
> color name but I want to be sure.
> 
> "GRENAT"
> 
> It is used in a 1882 Delineator magazine article about dress materials.  Two
> examples of usage:
> 
> 1. All the grenat shades, Lincoln Green, Russian blue, ... form the line of
> coloring.
> 2. Grenat velvet is one of the darkest shades used for evening wear.
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> 
> 
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> 


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Thanks Charlene for the backup.  See how fast you were at answering my
question.  If this was Sept. 1882... I would have waited 6 months for an
answer.  Its great living in the 21st Century!!!!!!

I don't feel so dumb now.  After reading the Q&A of the Mar. 1883 issue, two
people asked the same question I did.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 02:34:27 -0500
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Thersea,

After reading the sentences with the Grenat and Russian Blue, they were
listing fashionable colors of velvet.

> > 1. All the grenat shades, Lincoln Green, Russian blue, ... form the line
of
> > coloring.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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>This is the only image that fits the 1901 specific date.
>
>http://www.marquise.de/en/1900/pics/1900/1901_1.shtml

Thanx.  That was fast.  Looks like Charles Dana Gibson's penwork.  Do you 
know if it is?

Kayta

    //// \\\
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Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 03:02:57 -0600
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Penny Ladnier wrote:
 
> Thanks Charlene for the backup.  See how fast you were at answering my
> question.  If this was Sept. 1882... I would have waited 6 months for an
> answer.  Its great living in the 21st Century!!!!!!

Or a week if I had to go to the library to look it up.  Having access to
the online OED is wonderful!

--Charlene

-- 
Thou shalt not bear false witness.  But there are still plenty of true
things that you can say to get your brother in trouble.  -- Raymond
Lesser, 20 Things I Learned from God (or voices inside my head, I'm not
sure which, yet)
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <001301c2ce9c$68d05920$0d0c27d9@dan>  <006d01c2ceee$43b6ffc0$d10624d9@dan> <$Kady7BX7XR+IwHg@montgomerie.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pregnant portraiture late 16th
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:25:23 +0100
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 Pregnant portraiture late 16th
Hi Jean.
This long stomacher is actually very fashionable in these years worn with a
drum shaped farthingale. And this is only an english fashion, the continent
did not use such long stomachers.
Bjarne

> Has anyone seen this picture in real life?  It's so black online that
> you can't see where the rest of the dress goes, but the stomacher (if
> you can still call it that) goes lower than the tips of her fingers -
> halfway to her knees! Are there other examples of stomachers quite so
> long, and how does it fit with the skirt?  I'm wondering if this is
> perhaps another pregnancy style with a loose gown that doesn't have a
> waistline?
>
> Jean

> >h-costume mailing list
> >h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> --
> Jean Waddie
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Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction Reticella Lace
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Hi all,

People may be interested in this at:

http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html 


best wishes
Stevie


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 08:14:01 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction Reticella Lace
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Dear Stevie!
This is wonderfull.
Thanks a lot. I will try if i can buy 5 meters of that. It would fit in very
well for the Elizabethan Dress i dream of making in the future.
Did you see this lovely little lady?
http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/oakwell2.html
She is gorgeous.
Thanks for the link

Bjarne



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:59 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction Reticella Lace


> Hi all,
>
> People may be interested in this at:
>
> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html
>
>
> best wishes
> Stevie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>


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Bjarne wrote:

> This is wonderfull.
> Thanks a lot. I will try if i can buy 5 meters of that. It would fit
in very
> well for the Elizabethan Dress i dream of making in the future.
> Did you see this lovely little lady?
> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/oakwell2.html
> She is gorgeous.
> Thanks for the link

You are most welcome; it is pretty amazing, isn't it!
I didn't really know how much lace would be needed; will 5 meters be
enough to edge a ruff?

best wishes
Stevie


> Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction Reticella Lace
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > People may be interested in this at:
> >
> > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html
> >
> >
> > best wishes
> > Stevie
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 10:12:23 2003
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From: "Talia" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 09:16:39 -0600
Status: RO

Possibly because garnets come in all colors of the rainbow.

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Theresa Eacker
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:05 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....


Here's a gem page in french that uses the word "grenat" in association
with all the different shades of garnets... but I don't see where
Russian blue could be a garnet shade.  The mystery continues.

http://www.geminterest.com/inclist.php?gem=Grenat%20Tsavorite

Theresa Eacker

Penny Ladnier wrote:

> I can't find this word in a dictionary........ please help, I think it is
a
> color name but I want to be sure.
>
> "GRENAT"
>
> It is used in a 1882 Delineator magazine article about dress materials.
Two
> examples of usage:
>
> 1. All the grenat shades, Lincoln Green, Russian blue, ... form the line
of
> coloring.
> 2. Grenat velvet is one of the darkest shades used for evening wear.
>
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
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>


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From: Lalah T Tillinghast 
Subject: [h-cost] Help - out of my research period
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        I am supposed to make complete outfits for a couple of friends
(male and female) for a period that is not one I know well.  Where can I
can some authentic information or pictures of  clothing of the American
Colonial period (late 1700's)?  She sent me Simplicity patterns for the
two of them, but I know they aren't accurate and would like to at least
modify them to look more correct.  Thanks for any help.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 08:00:33 -1000 (HST)
Status: RO

	I went shopping for dress shoes last week and was surprised to see
long, extended, poulaine-like toes on so many shoes.  Pumps, slingbacks,
mules, and flats--a large percentage of all of them had those elongated
toes.  I'm not a follower of fashion and haven't shopped for dress shoes
in quite awhile.  How long has this silhouette been in style and what have
the fashion magazines been saying about them?

	If any of you have a pair, how easy/difficult is it to walk in
them?

--annora

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 13:08:33 2003
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From: "Betsy Marshall" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:10:09 -0600
Status: RO

it really looks like a horrible spelling/typo to me, switch a few letters
and
garnet becomes grenat- r to the a and then reverse the vowels..
just my .02 lira
Betsy

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Talia
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 9:17 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] What does this mean....


Possibly because garnets come in all colors of the rainbow.

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Theresa Eacker
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:05 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....


Here's a gem page in french that uses the word "grenat" in association
with all the different shades of garnets... but I don't see where
Russian blue could be a garnet shade.  The mystery continues.

http://www.geminterest.com/inclist.php?gem=Grenat%20Tsavorite

Theresa Eacker

Penny Ladnier wrote:

> I can't find this word in a dictionary........ please help, I think it is
a
> color name but I want to be sure.
>
> "GRENAT"
>
> It is used in a 1882 Delineator magazine article about dress materials.
Two
> examples of usage:
>
> 1. All the grenat shades, Lincoln Green, Russian blue, ... form the line
of
> coloring.
> 2. Grenat velvet is one of the darkest shades used for evening wear.
>
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
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>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 14:15:29 2003
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Sheryl Nance-Durst 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1901 shirtwaist
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Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 13:20:21 -0600
Status: RO

In searching for images for your question, I found a site
with the loveliest Victorian images - the Quebec National
Library It's all in French of course,
but the pictures speak for themselves.
For those of you that want to browse, here is the link to the
subject search:
http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/ind-sujM.htm
Go about halfway down the page - costume items begin
with the word "Mode" and have a time period following.

Here's what I found from 1901 -

There's one from Le Monde illustré, Feb 23, 1901 on this page
http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304.htm

A lovely one here:
http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-07.htm   (4th image down)

Oooh - really pretty ones on this page (#2646 & 2784)
plus a couple of cute bolero jackets:
http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-14.htm

Even more:
http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-15.htm
http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-23.htm


Other 1901 images:
A few nice 1901 hats on this page:
http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-06.htm
  A couple of ballgowns:
http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-05.htm
Some coats and photos:
http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-13.htm


Sheryl Nance-Durst


At 09:00 PM 2/8/03 -0800, you wrote:
>Can anyone point me to an online image of a shirtwaist documentable to 
>exactly 1901 (more than one would be good)?  If it has insertion lace, 
>this would be a plus, because I'm a hand-sewing snob too.  I especially 
>want to see the range of sleeve-heads, cuffs, and collar heights.
>
>Kayta



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Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:07:20 -0800
Status: RO

At 1:54 AM -0500 2/9/03, Penny Ladnier wrote:
>I found it in an 1883 issue of the magazine.  In the Questions and Answers
>Column, someone asked "What color is grenat?"  Answer: "It is a deep shade
>of garnet."  Funny it was mentioned so much in the Sept. 1882 article and
>someone asked what it was in the March 1883 issue.  And here I am 120 years
>later asking the same question.

I wonder if it's linguistically related to "grenadine" (i.e., 
pomegranate syrup), which is a garnet color.

Heather
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 14:33:20 2003
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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help - out of my research period
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:25:22 -0800
Status: RO

Hi Lalah,

I'm currently researching the same period!  Here's what I've found:

Books:
Aileen Ribeiro, _The Art of Dress_ & _Dress in France in the 18th Century_
Nancy Bradfield, _Costume in Detail_
Obviously, all the big surveys (Boucher, etc.) cover this period.

Books on Patterns:
Janet Arnold, _Patterns of Fashion_ (1660-1860)
Jean Hunnisett, _Period Costume for Stage & Screen_ (1500-1800)
Norah Waugh, _Cut of Women's Clothes_, _Cut of Men's Clothes_, _Corsets &
Crinolines_

Web sites:
La Couturiere Parisienne (http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/index.shtml)
Women's clothing from 18th C. New England Life website
(http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/delory.htm) and
(http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/women.html)
Men's clothing from 18th C. New England Life website
(http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/mens.htm)
18th Century Woman Source List
(http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/sfelshin/source-list.html)

Recommended pattern lines (haven't used any of them, but rather have heard
good things about the pattern lines):
JP Ryan (http://www.jpryan.com/)
Kannik's Korner (http://www.kannikskorner.com/)
Mantua Maker (http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_21.html) (I have used other
MM patterns from other eras, and I can vouch that they are great)

Have fun!

- Kendra


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lalah T Tillinghast" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 9:47 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Help - out of my research period


>         I am supposed to make complete outfits for a couple of friends
> (male and female) for a period that is not one I know well.  Where can I
> can some authentic information or pictures of  clothing of the American
> Colonial period (late 1700's)?  She sent me Simplicity patterns for the
> two of them, but I know they aren't accurate and would like to at least
> modify them to look more correct.  Thanks for any help.
>
> Lalah
> Never give up, Never surrender
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 14:41:35 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 19:45:37 -0000
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>What color is grenat?"  Answer: "It is a deep shade
>of garnet."

grenat is garnet in French :) ie it is the name of the semi precious stone
garnet or a dark red

Mel

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 14:51:49 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction Reticella Lace
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 20:55:02 +0100
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Dear Stevie.
I am a little late today, buisy with my suit.
5 meters would not be enough for a large ruff i want to make, but i would
make a standing collar edged with this lace and then make a ruff with my own
lace.
It would take me a whole year to make lace for such a standing collar, but
the lace for the ruff is quicker because it is smaller and thereby speedier.
I have a pattern from a burrial in Roskilde Cathedral a wonderfull little
pointed lace wich i also made for Drea Leed for an embroidered cuff she has
made.
It is from a royal child burried in Roskilde, a burrial from 1620 but with
lace older than that.

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction Reticella Lace


> Bjarne wrote:
>
> > This is wonderfull.
> > Thanks a lot. I will try if i can buy 5 meters of that. It would fit
> in very
> > well for the Elizabethan Dress i dream of making in the future.
> > Did you see this lovely little lady?
> > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/oakwell2.html
> > She is gorgeous.
> > Thanks for the link
>
> You are most welcome; it is pretty amazing, isn't it!
> I didn't really know how much lace would be needed; will 5 meters be
> enough to edge a ruff?
>
> best wishes
> Stevie
>
>
> > Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction Reticella Lace
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > People may be interested in this at:
> > >
> > > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html
> > >
> > >
> > > best wishes
> > > Stevie
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > h-costume mailing list
> > > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <20030209.124721.-422343.2.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help - out of my research period
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:16:18 +0100
Status: RO

Dear Lalah.
There also is 2 very usefull books for you:
Costume Close - up.
Clothing Construction and Pattern 1750 - 1790 by Linda Baumgarten & John
Watson with Florine Carr.
And
What Clothes Reveal
The Language of Clothing in Colonial and Federal America by Linda Baumgarten
The Colonial Williamsburg Collection.
The first book has a lovely pattern for a gentlemans suit, jacket, waistcoat
and breeches. There also is a wonderfull cloak.
These books is very valuable for me.

Bjarne

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lalah T Tillinghast" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 6:47 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Help - out of my research period


>         I am supposed to make complete outfits for a couple of friends
> (male and female) for a period that is not one I know well.  Where can I
> can some authentic information or pictures of  clothing of the American
> Colonial period (late 1700's)?  She sent me Simplicity patterns for the
> two of them, but I know they aren't accurate and would like to at least
> modify them to look more correct.  Thanks for any help.
>
> Lalah
> Never give up, Never surrender
> _______________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 15:42:49 -0500
Status: RO

You might be right. My Larousse dictionary says that "grenat" is from the
old french word for "pomme grenade". Not related to the syrup, though, just
"grenade", the fruit :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Heather Rose Jones" 
> I wonder if it's linguistically related to "grenadine" (i.e.,
> pomegranate syrup), which is a garnet color.
>
> Heather
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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1901 shirtwaist
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Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 12:59:02 -0800
Status: RO

Drool, drool, I mean, thank you very much.  Kinda makes one want to learn 
French...

>In searching for images for your question, I found a site
>with the loveliest Victorian images - the Quebec National
>Library It's all in French of course,
>but the pictures speak for themselves.
>For those of you that want to browse, here is the link to the
>subject search:
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/ind-sujM.htm
>Go about halfway down the page - costume items begin
>with the word "Mode" and have a time period following.
>
>Here's what I found from 1901 -
>
>There's one from Le Monde illustré, Feb 23, 1901 on this page
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304.htm
>
>A lovely one here:
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-07.htm   (4th image down)
>
>Oooh - really pretty ones on this page (#2646 & 2784)
>plus a couple of cute bolero jackets:
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-14.htm
>
>Even more:
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-15.htm
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-23.htm
>
>
>Other 1901 images:
>A few nice 1901 hats on this page:
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-06.htm
>  A couple of ballgowns:
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-05.htm
>Some coats and photos:
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/d1304-13.htm
>
>
>Sheryl Nance-Durst
>
>
>At 09:00 PM 2/8/03 -0800, you wrote:
>>Can anyone point me to an online image of a shirtwaist documentable to 
>>exactly 1901 (more than one would be good)?  If it has insertion lace, 
>>this would be a plus, because I'm a hand-sewing snob too.  I especially 
>>want to see the range of sleeve-heads, cuffs, and collar heights.
>>
>>Kayta
>
>
>
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Kayta

    //// \\\
   ////-@@\\\
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   (((  <> ))))
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/----\   /---\))


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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
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Bjarne wrote


> Costume Close - up.
> Clothing Construction and Pattern 1750 - 1790 by Linda Baumgarten &
John
> Watson with Florine Carr.

Many thanks for the reference; can you tell me the date of the last
woman's gown in it? As you know, I'm looking for a pattern which is
close to the gowns you recommended from the Kyoto Institute, and an
alternative to Norah Waugh's book would be useful.

best wishes
Stevie



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Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Eagle Scout Project
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N Kipar wrote:

>  --- Penny Ladnier  wrote: > Please forgive me for
> being off-topic.  So many of you are like family to me
> > and my family, and I thought you would like to know about this wonderful
> > project.
>
> Sorry Penny, I don't have money for that (maybe if it were local), but I would
> like to know what Eagle Scouts are. I do know now what Scouts are, after being
> bewildered at seeing those little kiddies running about here in funny looking
> (to me) uniforms, but what that's Eagle rank? I'm curious as ever.
>

Hi Nicole,
 you'll find the English equivalent of Eagle Scout is Queen's Scout. You can also
become a Queen's Scout in Australia. It's a lot of work. My dad is one. Maybe
that's why he barely passed his A Levels!
In Australia Boy Scouts only cover 11-15, beyond that you become a Venture
Scout. We have Cub Scouts for earlier than that and 'Joeys' for earlier still.
Girls
can join at any age so long as the troop has a female leader.
I guess this is a bit OT, unless you want to talk about uniforms. In Australia
Scouts wear hats a bit like those of Mounties....

Claire

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Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:18:23 -0700
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What kind of embroidery are you envisioning? Are you doing the cuffs,
only? or stripes? or around the neckline? Monochrome embroidery has a
number of, well, sub-forms, some of which lend themselves much more
easily to *not* being counted than others.
Depending on what you're looking at doing, it might very well be
possible to trace your design (or pounce it, or whatever) onto your
fabric and just go for it.  That would work well with designs that use
stem stitch, outline stitch etc., creating non-linear patterns or
critters (there are lots of those in extant garments, portraits, and
pattern books).  If you're wanting to do speckling, that's more random.
Designs involving pattern-darning or strict geometrical forms would be
more problematical, especially complicated designs. Depending on how
good your "eye" is, you might be able to do this without a strict
counting of threads, but you might not, too.  I'm, luckily, nearsighted
enough to be able to count threads on most fabrics.  So I generally do,
which accords with my (purely personal) retentive tendencies .  I
strongly suspect, though, that this wasn't necessarily always the case
in the past.
So....if you can give me a better idea of what it is you're after, I'd
*LOVE* to chat about my favorite needle-passion!
--sue, certified blackwork fiend

Nancy Kiel wrote:
> 
> Two separate questions:  1) I am doing blackwork on a shift and want to
> embroider the body of the garment, but the linen is too fine to count and
> using waste cloth doesn't really work for this.  Any suggestions?  Can I
> just embroider without counting?
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 17:19:07 -0500
Status: RO

Betsy,

I have found the spelling this way in three different issues now.  So the
spelling was correct.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Betsy Marshall" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] What does this mean....


> it really looks like a horrible spelling/typo to me, switch a few letters
> and
> garnet becomes grenat- r to the a and then reverse the vowels..
> just my .02 lira
> Betsy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of Talia
> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 9:17 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: RE: [h-cost] What does this mean....
>
>
> Possibly because garnets come in all colors of the rainbow.
>
> Talia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of Theresa Eacker
> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:05 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....
>
>
> Here's a gem page in french that uses the word "grenat" in association
> with all the different shades of garnets... but I don't see where
> Russian blue could be a garnet shade.  The mystery continues.
>
> http://www.geminterest.com/inclist.php?gem=Grenat%20Tsavorite
>
> Theresa Eacker
>
> Penny Ladnier wrote:
>
> > I can't find this word in a dictionary........ please help, I think it
is
> a
> > color name but I want to be sure.
> >
> > "GRENAT"
> >
> > It is used in a 1882 Delineator magazine article about dress materials.
> Two
> > examples of usage:
> >
> > 1. All the grenat shades, Lincoln Green, Russian blue, ... form the line
> of
> > coloring.
> > 2. Grenat velvet is one of the darkest shades used for evening wear.
> >
> > Penny Ladnier
> > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> > http://www.costumegallery.com
> > http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> > http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> >
> >
> > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Oh, gawd, Drea, you are just *evil!* 
--sue, going off to see if her plastic has de-melted from going to
England.....

Drea Leed wrote:
> 
> Sure.  The article was "Textile Technology" by John Munro, in the book
> "Textiles, Towns & Trade: Essays in the Economic History of Late Medieval
> England and the Low Countries (London: Variorum 1994)
> 
> Another absolutely fascinating article in the same book is "The Medieval
> Scarlet and the Economics of Sartorial Splendour", also by Munro.  It
> examines the whole issue of scarlet in more detail than I'd ever seen,
> listing all sorts of prices and widths and facts from Flemish trade books.
> 
> These two and a whole bunch of other reeeeeally bad-for-the-budget
> articles are in the following bibliography on medieval wool
> production:
> 
> http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/2MEDCLTH1.pdf
> 
> Enjoy,
> 
> Drea
> 
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Colleen McDonald wrote:
> 
> > < > woolen fabric in the 14th century, last night.  The author talked about
> > how the broad loom was in use by the mid-1300s, which could produce fabric
> > about 60 inches wide.  Unfulled, though, so that may not be an accurate
> > measurement for finished, fulled cloth.  Only wool cloth was mentioned; no
> > idea if it also applied to linen, but from what I recall linen
> > traditionally came in narrower widths.>>
> >
> > Drea, can you give us the citation info on this source?  I'll add to my stash of info.
> >
> > Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been digging into it for a current project and haven't come up with anything specific.
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <20030209.124721.-422343.2.catpurson@juno.com> <002101c2d078$1b0a2da0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <007001c2d082$45487ea0$020423d9@dan>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help - out of my research period
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 23:34:48 +0100
Status: RO

Dear Stevie.
Unfortunately the last dress pattern in the book is not like the "round
gown" you are looking for. It is a polonaise dress.
But i am going to the library this week, and i could borrow a book i know
wich has patterns from this period with round gowns.
As a matter of fact i helped an h-costume member, dont remember who it was
with a pattern from this book and i translated all the pattern details for
her from danish to english.
These patterns i am thinking off is from a danish book wich goes from 1790 -
1840 i think.
Have you seen "Sense and Sensibillity" with Emma Thomson?
The mother to the two daughters wears such a dress. Very becoming to her,
and she has such a lovely lace cap on her head, a black one, because she is
a widdow.
Then i also watched affair of the necklace wich i got on DVD last week, and
in this, i saw this jacket from the Kyoto Book, reproduced very very lovely!
You remember the jacket i told you i was fallen in love with, with the very
elaborate jacket collar?
Oh Stevie i should live forever, if i ever gets to make all the things i
would like to do!!!!
My suit got delayed again because i changed my mind i had made it without a
collar, but i want a collar, and it has to be embroidered two, so this i do
this weekend. Finish it next week.
Then i realised that i had to embroider buttons for the waistcoat! This i
had not done, and it will take me some time also because i had to order more
gold spangels from Hedgehog, and also more Pearl Purl for the piping of it
all!
But it is lovely that i have much time left. Usually i am fighting agains
deadends.
I got some deals and was allowed to hire a wig from the danish television. I
have to have a powdered wig for the suit.
Stevie i will try to search on my puter, perhaps i have saved that pattern i
translated to english!!

Many greetings

Bjarne



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help - out of my research period


> Bjarne wrote
>
>
> > Costume Close - up.
> > Clothing Construction and Pattern 1750 - 1790 by Linda Baumgarten &
> John
> > Watson with Florine Carr.
>
> Many thanks for the reference; can you tell me the date of the last
> woman's gown in it? As you know, I'm looking for a pattern which is
> close to the gowns you recommended from the Kyoto Institute, and an
> alternative to Norah Waugh's book would be useful.
>
> best wishes
> Stevie
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pregnant portraiture late 16th
References: <001301c2ce9c$68d05920$0d0c27d9@dan>
 
 <006d01c2ceee$43b6ffc0$d10624d9@dan>
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:20:04 +0000
Status: RO

Something weird has happened, because she seems to have disappeared from 
the Gheeraerts page.  It's difficult to compare, because the picture in 
Ashelford is black and white, but I don't think there's any additional 
detail. The pattern of the fabric, her bracelets, the lace of the ruff 
are all there, these seem to be the things which would most likely come 
out more clearly after restoration, if there was much change.

Jean



Stevie Gamble  wrote
>Jean wrote,
>
> Re: [h-cost] Pregnant portraiture late 16th
>
>
>> Aha.  That makes more sense, thanks.  I was actually quite familiar
>with
>> the 1595 portrait, it's in Ashelford's Visual History of costume -
>16th
>> century, although there it's attributed to W Segar.
>
>Yes, I think Ashelford was the first dress historian I came across who
>mentioned the pregnancy potraits, though she may well have been
>depending on someone else's work. I don't have her book to hand
>tonight to compare; do you think the restoration of the portrait has
>uncovered further detail?
>
>
>best wishes
>Stevie
>
>_______________________________________________
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-- 
Jean Waddie
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction Reticella Lace
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:23:46 +0000
Status: RO

Wow!  It is so nice to see costumes that children can try on that are 
actually accurate.  Lots of historical places do this, but mostly they 
are so bad, they set your teeth on edge.

Jean


In message <001301c2d03d$54763290$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>, Bjarne og 
Leif Drews  writes
>Dear Stevie!
>This is wonderfull.
>Thanks a lot. I will try if i can buy 5 meters of that. It would fit in very
>well for the Elizabethan Dress i dream of making in the future.
>Did you see this lovely little lady?
>http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/oakwell2.html
>She is gorgeous.
>Thanks for the link
>
>Bjarne
>
>
>
>Leif og Bjarne Drews
>www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
>http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stevie Gamble" 
>To: 
>Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:59 PM
>Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction Reticella Lace
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> People may be interested in this at:
>>
>> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html
>>
>>
>> best wishes
>> Stevie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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-- 
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 17:52:43 2003
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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 22:56:37 -0000
Status: RO

Like I said it is French. French is often a trendy/fashionable way to
describe something. Look at Rive Gauche, who on earth would wear a perfume
called left bank !!

Mel

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 18:17:34 2003
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From: Theresa Eacker 
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To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1901 shirtwaist
References: <4.3.1.2.20030208203707.04ea9250@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20030208235257.00cfe8a0@mail.frys.com>
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Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:18:20 -0800
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To Kayta-

Yes, you're dead on, the previous page lists it as "Confection" by 
Gibson. I'm including that page as well if you want to troll about.

http://www.marquise.de/en/1900/pics/1900/index.shtml

The other links that have been sent on are wonderful, especially the 
french one!!!

Theresa Eacker

Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

> 
>> This is the only image that fits the 1901 specific date.
>>
>> http://www.marquise.de/en/1900/pics/1900/1901_1.shtml
> 
> 
> Thanx.  That was fast.  Looks like Charles Dana Gibson's penwork.  Do 
> you know if it is?
> 
> Kayta
> 
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 19:20:41 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting 0n-line source for hats
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You're welcome! I really had to look to find them, though, even using
google and such--got a lot of hits for later-period straw hats.  Other
than the folks on this list, I don't really have many/any contacts with
the later-centuries reenacting crowd, so I don't have the
merchant/suttler contacts right handy.  I think I eventually got to them
by back-tracking through some less-useful links, and arriving at some
pages that have lists of links for 18th c. types.
  I was very pleased to find Dirty Billy's, although I haven't yet
ordered from them.  I have to do my best to keep out of the sun,
anyways, so I may as well do it in a hat that looks right!
--sue

Kendra Van Cleave wrote:
> 
> Dirty Billy's Hatsooo, they even have those flat-crowned 18th century
> women's straw hats!  must purchase!
> 
> Thanks Sue!
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 20:30:34 2003
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
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Subject: [h-cost] blackwork ruffled cuffs
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C2D062.50163400
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I have a questions for those of you who have had the great fortune to =
look at extant 16th century blackworked shirts.  The sleeves.  In a =
blackworked shirt such as found on =
http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/shirt.html my assumption is =
that the sleeve is made of a rectangle and ruffled edge is part of the =
same.  It appears to me that it had been cartridge pleated about 2 1/5 =
inches up and a flat embroidered band has been stitched over the =
pleating.  Is this correct?  Would there then be a tie on each end of =
the flat band?  I would also assume that the ruffle is no longer in a =
complete circle.  There is a close up of such a sleeve in The Tudor =
Housewife, page 42.  I have had a look at the costume of bath's pattern, =
but it appears to be a shirt that ends only with the band and I am =
interested in shirts with ruffled sleeves.  Would the same apply to neck =
ruffles and embroidered bands.

Thanks for your assistance.


Lisa=20

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I have a questions for those of you who =
have had=20
the great fortune to look at extant 16th century blackworked =
shirts.  The=20
sleeves.  In a blackworked shirt such as found on http://home=
.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/shirt.html my=20
assumption is that the sleeve is made of a rectangle and ruffled edge is =
part of=20
the same.  It appears to me that it had been cartridge pleated =
about 2 1/5=20
inches up and a flat embroidered band has been stitched over the =
pleating. =20
Is this correct?  Would there then be a tie on each end of the flat =

band?  I would also assume that the ruffle is no longer in a =
complete=20
circle.  There is a close up of =
such a=20
sleeve in The Tudor Housewife, page 42.  I have had a look at the =
costume=20
of bath's pattern, but it appears to be a shirt that ends only with the =
band and=20
I am interested in shirts with ruffled sleeves.  Would the same =
apply to=20
neck ruffles and embroidered bands.


 


Thanks for your =
assistance.


 


 


Lisa 


------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C2D062.50163400--


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb  9 21:03:32 2003
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From: "Nancy Kiel" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help - out of my research period
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You might also want to look at Rural Pennsylvania Clothing by Ellen J. 
Gehret and Fitting and Proper by Sharon Ann Burnston.  Both have photos of 
existing garments as well as patterns.



Nancy Kiel
nancy_kiel@hotmail.com
Never tease a weasel!
This is very good advice.
For the weasel will not like it
And teasing isn't nice.


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 00:43:47 2003
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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1901 shirtwaist
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>In searching for images for your question, I found a site
>with the loveliest Victorian images - the Quebec National
>Library It's all in French of course,
>but the pictures speak for themselves.
>For those of you that want to browse, here is the link to the
>subject search:
>http://www.bnquebec.ca/illustrations/htm/ind-sujM.htm
>Go about halfway down the page - costume items begin
>with the word "Mode" and have a time period following.

Thank you s much.  I have done little else today besides browse thru this 
wonderful site.  I now have several ideas for shirtwaists, and have changed 
which jacket I want to one I found here.


Kayta

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 04:02:49 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] V&A purchase Tudor day bag
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I had a look for bits and came across this on the V&A shopping site:

http://www.vandashop.co.uk/index.php?f=itemdetl.php&p=61900

For £19.95 it is remarkably cheap, this charming embroidered bag. Thought
someone might be interested.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 09:02:30 2003
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Here are some of the patterns online, I thought it's a lovely page ;-)

http://www.fantasy-kleidung.de/Barbie.htm

Nicole

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Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 09:06:14 2003
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Sorry for the bandwidth--but how do we indicate change of adresses so we can 
continue to get this wonderful list?
As of February 12th my new address is Albrakat7@yahoo.com
Thanks mucho!
Albra/Kathryn
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A purchase Tudor day bag
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It's a lovely bag...but have you seen the US shipping price?  $40 American...yeesh!  Or maybe I'm reading it wrong?

Christine


In a message dated 2/10/2003 4:03:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:

> 
> 
> For £19.95 it is remarkably cheap, this charming 
> embroidered bag. Thought
> someone might be interested.
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 09:49:37 2003
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 --- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > It's a lovely bag...but have you seen the US
shipping price?  $40
> American...yeesh!  Or maybe I'm reading it wrong?
> 
> Christine

Oh sorry, I didn't check the shipping prices coz I live round the corner so to
speak. Didn't mean to make your mouth water and then the shipping is so
exorbitant. :-(

Nicole

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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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 --- AlbraKat@aol.com wrote: > Sorry for the bandwidth--but how do we indicate
change of adresses so we can 
> continue to get this wonderful list?
> As of February 12th my new address is Albrakat7@yahoo.com
> Thanks mucho!
> Albra/Kathryn
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

I think you have to unsubscribe and re-subscribe with the new address,
everything can be done at the URL above.

Nicole

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Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 10:03:02 2003
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:03:11 -0600
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Thanks Nicole!  Seeing these on your website awhile back was what got me
started thinking that I wanted to try one.  The gorgeous photo of
another one in 'Art of Embroidery' cinched the idea.

If I understand you correctly, the bottom 'band' is actually that, a
band attached to the bottom of the cap part, and edged with lace or some
sort of cording (from the photos I've seen) on the top edge.  I am also
assuming these are lined.

Nagging in the back of my head is a memory of an illustration in, I
think, one of Thmasina Beck's books of a printed pattern for one of
these.  I'll have to dig out my notes tonight when I get home.

Thanks Again!
Catherine
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 10:39:59 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered male cap photos
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:40:02 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Catherine Kinsey  wrote: > Thanks Nicole!  Seeing these
on your website awhile back was what got me
> started thinking that I wanted to try one.  The gorgeous photo of
> another one in 'Art of Embroidery' cinched the idea.
> 
> If I understand you correctly, the bottom 'band' is actually that, a
> band attached to the bottom of the cap part, and edged with lace or some
> sort of cording (from the photos I've seen) on the top edge.  I am also
> assuming these are lined.

I did line mine, yes. What I  meant about the band is that I folded the lower
edge over, and then sew the band onto that part, but I really don't have a clue
how to describe it. It is best you search for the pattern. ;-) 
I have one at home, but really, all it is, is four panels of eggwarmer-shape.
hehe, it really does look like a giant eggwarmer, don't they?

Nicole

> Nagging in the back of my head is a memory of an illustration in, I
> think, one of Thmasina Beck's books of a printed pattern for one of
> these.  I'll have to dig out my notes tonight when I get home.
> 
> Thanks Again!
> Catherine
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 10:51:49 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:55:07 +0100
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Sorry for interrupting your disgussion.
Another male cap you could make, well from another period _ 18th century you
could find in the book from Colonial Williamsburg. It has both pattern for
the cap and also the embroidery!


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered male cap photos


> --- Catherine Kinsey  wrote: > Thanks Nicole!  Seeing
these
> on your website awhile back was what got me
> > started thinking that I wanted to try one.  The gorgeous photo of
> > another one in 'Art of Embroidery' cinched the idea.
> >
> > If I understand you correctly, the bottom 'band' is actually that, a
> > band attached to the bottom of the cap part, and edged with lace or some
> > sort of cording (from the photos I've seen) on the top edge.  I am also
> > assuming these are lined.
>
> I did line mine, yes. What I  meant about the band is that I folded the
lower
> edge over, and then sew the band onto that part, but I really don't have a
clue
> how to describe it. It is best you search for the pattern. ;-)
> I have one at home, but really, all it is, is four panels of
eggwarmer-shape.
> hehe, it really does look like a giant eggwarmer, don't they?
>
> Nicole
>
> > Nagging in the back of my head is a memory of an illustration in, I
> > think, one of Thmasina Beck's books of a printed pattern for one of
> > these.  I'll have to dig out my notes tonight when I get home.
> >
> > Thanks Again!
> > Catherine
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 13:18:30 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Clothing guidelines for the Civil War Era (book)
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:18:51 -0800
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--=====================_8425000==.ALT
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I've been having a grand time with Melvyl the last 3 days and only one 
request was bounced back. Can anyone tell my why this book would be held in 
special collections at UCB? I can't come up with a reason off the top of my 
head.

Burgess, Janet. Clothing guidelines for the Civil War Era /, Janet Burgess. 
New rev. and expanded ed. Davenport, Iowa (2218 E. 11th St., Davenport 
52803) : Amazon Drygoods, 1985. 42 p. ; 22 cm.  Language: English


Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis

--=====================_8425000==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"



I've been having a grand time with Melvyl the last 3 days and only one
request was bounced back. Can anyone tell my why this book would be held
in special collections at UCB? I can't come up with a reason off the top
of my head. 


Burgess, Janet. Clothing guidelines for the Civil War Era /, Janet
Burgess. New rev. and expanded ed. Davenport, Iowa (2218 E. 11th St.,
Davenport 52803) : Amazon Drygoods, 1985. 42 p. ; 22 cm. 
Language: English 




Gwyn Carnegie

University of California at Davis 




--=====================_8425000==.ALT--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 14:35:23 2003
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I have seen these in the stores for a year or so. I tried a pair on once and
I thought they looked ridiculous! Which, of course, has nothing to do with
whether or not they are fashionable. I didn't try walking in them, though.

Gail Finke

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 14:42:05 2003
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:42:25 -0600
Status: RO

I have one at home, but really, all it is, is four panels of
eggwarmer-shape.
hehe, it really does look like a giant eggwarmer, don't they?

Nicole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ROFTL!  Welll, the person who might end up wearing this is definately
not an egg (ie; he still has lots of hair) but I have a feeling I will
be using this as a nickname for the piece :).

Ummm, Bjarne, you don't happen to remember the name of that book with
the pattern in it do you :)?????

Catherine


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 14:55:17 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Question about thread size
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:56:40 -0700
Status: RO

Hey, gang.
I'm poking around on-line, looking for some linen thread suitable for
hand-sewing (seams, hems, etc.).  I'm figuring one of my numerous
embroidery or lace sources is my best best, but I'm not sure what size
to aim for.  Ideally, I'd like something along the lines,
thickness-wise, of ordinary sewing thread, or perhaps slightly finer,
but I have *no clue* what size that stuff is (I just snag the spools I
need from the display at the store!).
Threadneedlestreet has some 80/3 linen thread--would that be a good
match? I'll be using it for construction of some camicias, shifts, etc
(primarily 16th c. undergarments) (yes, all by hand ;o)
--sue, curiously.....
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 14:57:52 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered male cap photos
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:02:51 +0100
Status: RO

Costume Close - up.
Clothing Construction and Pattern 1750 - 1790 by Linda Baumgarten & John
Watson with Florine Carr.
This is the book with a very beautifull embroidered mans cap.

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Catherine Kinsey" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 8:42 PM
Subject: [h-cost] embroidered male cap photos


> I have one at home, but really, all it is, is four panels of
> eggwarmer-shape.
> hehe, it really does look like a giant eggwarmer, don't they?
> 
> Nicole
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> ROFTL!  Welll, the person who might end up wearing this is definately
> not an egg (ie; he still has lots of hair) but I have a feeling I will
> be using this as a nickname for the piece :).
> 
> Ummm, Bjarne, you don't happen to remember the name of that book with
> the pattern in it do you :)?????
> 
> Catherine
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 15:00:28 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <3E4803F8.66C13BA5@in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about thread size
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:04:23 +0100
Status: RO

Dear Sue
You hit the button here, 80/3 linen thread is super for sewing.

Bjarne
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sue Clemenger" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 8:56 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Question about thread size


> Hey, gang.
> I'm poking around on-line, looking for some linen thread suitable for
> hand-sewing (seams, hems, etc.).  I'm figuring one of my numerous
> embroidery or lace sources is my best best, but I'm not sure what size
> to aim for.  Ideally, I'd like something along the lines,
> thickness-wise, of ordinary sewing thread, or perhaps slightly finer,
> but I have *no clue* what size that stuff is (I just snag the spools I
> need from the display at the store!).
> Threadneedlestreet has some 80/3 linen thread--would that be a good
> match? I'll be using it for construction of some camicias, shifts, etc
> (primarily 16th c. undergarments) (yes, all by hand ;o)
> --sue, curiously.....
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 


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80/3 thread is #80 weight (sewing size- buttonhole is #30 for comparison,
and superfine threads are about #100, I use #50 silk for sewing) and 3 ply

Should work fine for you.  Do they have colors?  Or just natural/white?

Lyn Greaves
Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton
COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander



----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Clemenger" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:56 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Question about thread size


> Hey, gang.
> I'm poking around on-line, looking for some linen thread suitable for
> hand-sewing (seams, hems, etc.).  I'm figuring one of my numerous
> embroidery or lace sources is my best best, but I'm not sure what size
> to aim for.  Ideally, I'd like something along the lines,
> thickness-wise, of ordinary sewing thread, or perhaps slightly finer,
> but I have *no clue* what size that stuff is (I just snag the spools I
> need from the display at the store!).
> Threadneedlestreet has some 80/3 linen thread--would that be a good
> match? I'll be using it for construction of some camicias, shifts, etc
> (primarily 16th c. undergarments) (yes, all by hand ;o)
> --sue, curiously.....
> _______________________________________________
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>


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Subject: [h-cost] 1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
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Hi all,

Ebay has a most strange looking outfit described as


1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS

at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2808660165&category
=20297

Is this real?

best wishes
Stevie

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From: Robin Netherton 
To: "h-costume@indra.com" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about thread size
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On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Sue Clemenger wrote:

> I'm poking around on-line, looking for some linen thread suitable for
> hand-sewing (seams, hems, etc.).  I'm figuring one of my numerous
> embroidery or lace sources is my best best, but I'm not sure what size
> to aim for.  Ideally, I'd like something along the lines,
> thickness-wise, of ordinary sewing thread, or perhaps slightly finer,
> but I have *no clue* what size that stuff is (I just snag the spools I
> need from the display at the store!).

I just call Hedgehog Handworks and tell them what I want, and they always
send the right thing ;-)  I think the thread I used to hand-sew my linen
chemises is 100/3 but I'd have to go dig it out to be sure.

The service is great, and the prices reasonable.

--Robin

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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:30:44 -0600
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I would say that this is probably authentic. It seems to be fairly
typical of the mid 1890's, and the bodice looks a bit odd because it
seems to be displayed on a mannequin that is too big for the dress so the
front center closure is open. The pointed overskirt detail is very
commonly seen in the pattern catalogues from the period. All in all a
very nice dress, in my opinion.


Karen

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Great Biblo Drea,

Page 35 has the table. It lists the dyeing prices in 3 categories, On
Loom, Fulled, and Tentered. But it doesn't go any further back then 1282.
The article certainly worth looking up, even just for the footnotes >; )

Munro is fairly prolific and you can find his articles all over. I can hit
the stacks tomorrow afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books and
see if anything jogs my brain or if I can find the Flemish trade manifests
I've been promising Drea.

Below are some recent titles that weren't included . The Stabel article 
should be easy to find Childs has a nice body of work out there as well.

Childs, Wendy R. ;  The English export trade in cloth in the fourteenth 
century.
  Progress and Problems in Medieval England: Essays in Honour of Edward 
Miller. Ed. Richard BRITNELL and John HATCHER. Pp. xvi, 317. Cambridge: 
Cambridge University Press.
ISSN/ISBN: 0-521-55036-X

Chorley, Patrick ; The Ypres cloth industry 1200-1350: the pattern of 
change in output and demand.
From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: Archaeological and 
Historical Contributions

Heckett, Elizabeth Wincott ;  Archaeological textiles from 13th/14th 
century Irish towns.
From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: Archaeological and 
Historical Contributions

Henry, Philippa A. ; Development and change in late Saxon textile 
production: an analysis of the evidence.
Durham Archaeological Journal: Transactions of the Architectural and 
Archaeological Society of Durham and Northumberland , vol 14-15, 1999, 69-76

Sorber, Frieda ;  The making of cloth: state of the art technology in the 
Middle Ages.
From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: Archaeological and 
Historical Contributions

Stabel, Peter ; Marketing cloth in the Low Countries: manufacturers, 
brokers and merchants (14th-16th centuries).
From: International Trade in the Low Countries (14th-16th Centuries): 
Merchants, Organization, Infrastructure. Proceedings of the International 
Conference, Ghent-Antwerp, 12th-13th January 1997


Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis

At 10:51 PM 2/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:


>Page 35 has the table. It lists the dyeing prices in 3 catagories, On
>Loom, Fulled, and Tentered. But it doesn't go any further back then 1282.
>The article certainly worth looking up, even just for the footnotes >; )
>
>Munro is fairly prolific and you can find his articles all over. I can hit
>the stacks tomorrow afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books and
>see if anything jogs my brain or if I can find the flemish trade manifests
>I've been promissing Drea.
>
>There are two articles that are sticking in my head but I can't find them
>in my binders, one is on lead stamps (tax stamps) during this time period
>and the other by the editor of the Pasold series Carus-Wilson. I think I
>remember they dealt with earlier textiles then 1282.
>
>Anges G article
>
>Gwyn
>
> > Drea Leed wrote:
> > >
> > > Sure.  The article was "Textile Technology" by John Munro, in the book
> > > "Textiles, Towns & Trade: Essays in the Economic History of Late
>Medieval
> > > England and the Low Countries (London: Variorum 1994)
> > >
> > > Another absolutely fascinating article in the same book is "The
>Medieval
> > > Scarlet and the Economics of Sartorial Splendour", also by Munro.  It
> > > examines the whole issue of scarlet in more detail than I'd ever seen,
> > > listing all sorts of prices and widths and facts from Flemish trade
>books.
> > >
> > > These two and a whole bunch of other reeeeeally bad-for-the-budget
> > > articles are in the following bibliography on medieval wool
> > > production:
> > >
> > > http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/2MEDCLTH1.pdf
> > >
> > > Enjoy,
> > >
> > > Drea
> > >
> > > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Colleen McDonald wrote:
> > >
> > > > <widths of
> > > > woolen fabric in the 14th century, last night.  The author talked
>about
> > > > how the broad loom was in use by the mid-1300s, which could produce
>fabric
> > > > about 60 inches wide.  Unfulled, though, so that may not be an
>accurate
> > > > measurement for finished, fulled cloth.  Only wool cloth was
>mentioned; no
> > > > idea if it also applied to linen, but from what I recall linen
> > > > traditionally came in narrower widths.>>
> > > >
> > > > Drea, can you give us the citation info on this source?  I'll add to
>my stash of info.
> > > >
> > > > Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been digging
>into it for a current project and haven't come up with anything specific.

--=====================_18588093==.ALT
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Great Biblo Drea,


Page 35 has the table. It lists the dyeing prices in 3 categories, On


Loom, Fulled, and Tentered. But it doesn't go any further back then 1282.


The article certainly worth looking up, even just for the footnotes >;
)


Munro is fairly prolific and you can find his articles all over. I can
hit 

the stacks tomorrow afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books and


see if anything jogs my brain or if I can find the Flemish trade
manifests 

I've been promising Drea. 


Below are some recent titles that weren't included . The Stabel article
should be easy to find Childs has a nice body of work out there as well.



Childs, Wendy R. ; 
The English export trade in cloth in the fourteenth century. 

 Progress and Problems in Medieval England: Essays in Honour of Edward Miller. Ed. Richard BRITNELL and John HATCHER. Pp. xvi, 317. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 

ISSN/ISBN: 0-521-55036-X 


Chorley, Patrick ; The Ypres cloth industry 1200-1350: the pattern of change in output and demand. 

From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: Archaeological and Historical Contributions 


Heckett, Elizabeth Wincott ;  Archaeological textiles from 13th/14th century Irish towns. 

From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: Archaeological and Historical Contributions 


Henry, Philippa A. ; Development and change in late Saxon textile production: an analysis of the evidence. 

Durham Archaeological Journal: Transactions of the Architectural and Archaeological Society of Durham and Northumberland , vol 14-15, 1999, 69-76 


Sorber, Frieda ;  The making of cloth: state of the art technology in the Middle Ages. 

From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: Archaeological and Historical Contributions 


Stabel, Peter ; Marketing cloth in the Low Countries: manufacturers, brokers and merchants (14th-16th centuries). 

From: International Trade in the Low Countries (14th-16th Centuries): Merchants, Organization, Infrastructure. Proceedings of the International Conference, Ghent-Antwerp, 12th-13th January 1997 




Gwyn Carnegie

University of California at Davis 


At 10:51 PM 2/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:





Page 35 has the table. It lists the dyeing prices in 3 catagories, On 

Loom, Fulled, and Tentered. But it doesn't go any further back then 1282. 

The article certainly worth looking up, even just for the footnotes >; )



Munro is fairly prolific and you can find his articles all over. I can hit 

the stacks tomorrow afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books and 

see if anything jogs my brain or if I can find the flemish trade manifests 

I've been promissing Drea. 


There are two articles that are sticking in my head but I can't find them 

in my binders, one is on lead stamps (tax stamps) during this time period 

and the other by the editor of the Pasold series Carus-Wilson. I think I 

remember they dealt with earlier textiles then 1282.


Anges G article


Gwyn


> Drea Leed wrote:

> > 

> > Sure.  The article was "Textile Technology" by John Munro, in the book

> > "Textiles, Towns & Trade: Essays in the Economic History of Late 

Medieval

> > England and the Low Countries (London: Variorum 1994)

> > 

> > Another absolutely fascinating article in the same book is "The 

Medieval

> > Scarlet and the Economics of Sartorial Splendour", also by Munro.  It

> > examines the whole issue of scarlet in more detail than I'd ever seen,

> > listing all sorts of prices and widths and facts from Flemish trade 

books.

> > 

> > These two and a whole bunch of other reeeeeally bad-for-the-budget

> > articles are in the following bibliography on medieval wool

> > production:

> > 

> > http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/2MEDCLTH1.pdf

> > 

> > Enjoy,

> > 

> > Drea

> > 

> > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Colleen McDonald wrote:

> > 

> > > <<As luck would have it, I was just reading an article about the 

widths of

> > > woolen fabric in the 14th century, last night.  The author talked 

about

> > > how the broad loom was in use by the mid-1300s, which could produce 

fabric

> > > about 60 inches wide.  Unfulled, though, so that may not be an 

accurate

> > > measurement for finished, fulled cloth.  Only wool cloth was 

mentioned; no

> > > idea if it also applied to linen, but from what I recall linen

> > > traditionally came in narrower widths.>>

> > >

> > > Drea, can you give us the citation info on this source?  I'll add to 

my stash of info.

> > >

> > > Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been digging 

into it for a current project and haven't come up with anything specific.



--=====================_18588093==.ALT--

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They actually have all kinds of colors, but I'm interested in the white,
because I'll be doing seams and hems on white garments.
Just so I'm not a tease, I'll give the link for their website below. 
They seem to have a fairly comprehensive catalogue, thread-wise.
--sue
http://www.threadneedlestreet.com/

Lyn Greaves- home wrote:
> 
> 80/3 thread is #80 weight (sewing size- buttonhole is #30 for comparison,
> and superfine threads are about #100, I use #50 silk for sewing) and 3 ply
> 
> Should work fine for you.  Do they have colors?  Or just natural/white?
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 16:35:29 2003
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Great! Thanks, Bjarne.  If anyone on the list would know linen thread,
it'd be you, between all the sewing and the lace-making!
--sue

Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
> 
> Dear Sue
> You hit the button here, 80/3 linen thread is super for sewing.
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 16:49:16 2003
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Hi all,

Could I please jump on Sue's bandwagon and seek advice on the
appropriate thread to use for sewing wool garments.

Post 1282, that is:-)

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 17:07:30 2003
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Dear Stevie.
When i went to the Arts and Crafts school, i was told always (if possible)
to use the same fiber as the fabric.
However wool dont have sewing threads, and therefore we used cotton sewing
thread for wools.


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 10:59 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Thread sizes for wool


> Hi all,
>
> Could I please jump on Sue's bandwagon and seek advice on the
> appropriate thread to use for sewing wool garments.
>
> Post 1282, that is:-)
>
> best wishes
> Stevie
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 17:14:54 2003
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Thanks for the title Bjarne!  I have put in a request via library loan,
hopefully I will be able to get it soon.  

Catherine
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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
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>1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
>
>at
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2808660165&category
>=20297
>
>Is this real?

I'd say yes, and c1897-98, right after the big poofy sleeves deflated, but 
before they knew what to do with the leftover fullness. But I agree with 
your strange-looking assessment.


Kayta

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>I have seen these in the stores for a year or so. I tried a pair on once and
>I thought they looked ridiculous! Which, of course, has nothing to do with
>whether or not they are fashionable. I didn't try walking in them, though.

They've been around long enough that they've hit the thrift stores already.


Kayta

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Stevie-

This site is fabulous. There's a wonderful PDF on the construction 
process/philosophy of one of young Princess Elizabeth's Tudor attire. 
What an amazing insight!!!  These pictures are really beautiful AND 
Nicole is featured as well. Thanks so much for mentioning this!!

Theresa (the ever-voracious for knowledge).

Stevie Gamble wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> People may be interested in this at:
> 
> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html 
> 
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
> 
> 
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> 


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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Karen wrote:



> I would say that this is probably authentic. It seems to be fairly
> typical of the mid 1890's, and the bodice looks a bit odd because it
> seems to be displayed on a mannequin that is too big for the dress
so the
> front center closure is open. The pointed overskirt detail is very
> commonly seen in the pattern catalogues from the period. All in all
a
> very nice dress, in my opinion.

Thank you; it seemed so theatrical that I wondered whether it was
theatrical, but of course there are periods in which styles do seem
OTT to the innocent bystander. And it is, as you say, very taking:-)

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 17:46:44 2003
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:42:43 -0800
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Ok, I'm not familiar with the term -- what the heck are "poulaine" toes?

Pam Dotson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail & Scott Finke" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 11:32 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: "poulaine" toes


>
> I have seen these in the stores for a year or so. I tried a pair on once
and
> I thought they looked ridiculous! Which, of course, has nothing to do with
> whether or not they are fashionable. I didn't try walking in them, though.
>
> Gail Finke
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Barbie patterns
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>Here are some of the patterns online, I thought it's a lovely page ;-)
>
>http://www.fantasy-kleidung.de/Barbie.htm

 From their home page, they have a pattern listed as Gugeln, the basic 
medieval hood that so many people have trouble making patterns for.  In 
addition, they list every historically-based pattern, human or Barbie, that 
the major pattern companies have in print.  It was nice to see all the 
pictures.


Kayta

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I spotted a couple of pictures of our Nicole looking fabulous on their site 
and the custom order shoes under accessories are to die for.

At 02:39 PM 2/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Stevie-
>This site is fabulous. There's a wonderful PDF on the construction 
>process/philosophy of one of young Princess Elizabeth's Tudor attire. What 
>an amazing insight!!!  These pictures are really beautiful AND Nicole is 
>featured as well. Thanks so much for mentioning this!!
>
>Theresa (the ever-voracious for knowledge).
>
>Stevie Gamble wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>People may be interested in this at:
>>http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html
>>best wishes
>>Stevie

Gwyn Carnegie - who is at this moment stubbornly refusing to be sucked back 
into the 16th c.
University of California, Davis

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I spotted a couple of pictures of our Nicole looking fabulous on their
site and the custom order shoes under accessories are to die
for.


At 02:39 PM 2/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:


Stevie-

This site is fabulous. There's a wonderful PDF on the construction
process/philosophy of one of young Princess Elizabeth's Tudor attire.
What an amazing insight!!!  These pictures are really beautiful AND
Nicole is featured as well. Thanks so much for mentioning 
this!!


Theresa (the ever-voracious for knowledge).


Stevie Gamble wrote:


Hi all,

People may be interested in this at:

http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html


best wishes

Stevie


Gwyn Carnegie - who is at this moment stubbornly refusing to be sucked back into the 16th c.

University of California, Davis 




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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "poulaine" toes
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 18:13:22 -0500
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Ugh, my feet are big enough as it is.   My roommate and I joke about these
shoes, that somebody should just go all the way and put bells on the end or
something.  The worst, of course, are the ones with the long skinny toes
*and* stiletto heels.  *rolls eyes*

-- Maral

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail & Scott Finke" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:32 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: "poulaine" toes


>
> I have seen these in the stores for a year or so. I tried a pair on once
and
> I thought they looked ridiculous! Which, of course, has nothing to do with
> whether or not they are fashionable. I didn't try walking in them, though.
>
> Gail Finke
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 10 18:59:57 2003
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To Gwyn-

Their 18c shoes were indeed heart-breaking but I've got the darndest 
hankering for a 1630's shoe that I'm hoping they have in their 
repertoire. It'll be interesting to see what they charge!!

Theresa (who has very little chance to do anything 17c in SF Bay Area, 
boo-hoo!)

Gwyn Carnegie wrote:

> I spotted a couple of pictures of our Nicole looking fabulous on their 
> site and the custom order shoes under accessories are to die for.
> 

>>
>> Stevie Gamble,
>>> People may be interested in this at:
>>> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html
>>> best wishes
>>> Stevie


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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:18:55 -0700
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I dunno where you guys are looking, but I didn't see Nicole at all, and
where's this PDF?
All I get are a few "sample" pictures--not much else.
--sue, puzzled

Gwyn Carnegie wrote:
> 
> I spotted a couple of pictures of our Nicole looking fabulous on their
> site and the custom order shoes under accessories are to die for.
> 
> At 02:39 PM 2/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> > Stevie-
> > This site is fabulous. There's a wonderful PDF on the construction
> > process/philosophy of one of young Princess Elizabeth's Tudor
> > attire. What an amazing insight!!!  These pictures are really
> > beautiful AND Nicole is featured as well. Thanks so much for
> > mentioning this!!
> >
> > Theresa (the ever-voracious for knowledge).
> >
> > Stevie Gamble wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >> People may be interested in this at:
> >> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/lace.html
> >> best wishes
> >> Stevie
> >
> 
> Gwyn Carnegie - who is at this moment stubbornly refusing to be sucked
> back into the 16th c.
> University of California, Davis
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thanks, mucho, Nicole:)
Albra
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:00:38 EST
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In a message dated 2/10/03 5:41:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
stevie.gamble@btinternet.com writes:

<< Thank you; it seemed so theatrical that I wondered whether it was
 theatrical, but of course there are periods in which styles do seem
 OTT to the innocent bystander. And it is, as you say, very taking:-) >>

Yes, it looks real to me too. The inside details give it away. It is terribly 
displayed. Not only is the bodice undone, the skirt requires some sturdy 
trumpet shaped petticoat to make the skirt and it's pointed velvet decoration 
sit right and look even more theatrical. Skirts at this time were stiff and 
severely shaped.
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 18:06:11 -0800
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To Sue-

Sorry about that, I found these by just randomly bumbling around and 
clicking mindlessly on whatever link presented itself!!

Here's the URL for the Tudor PDF, at the bottom with the line of photos 
of the little girl dressing from the skin out (more or less):

http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/tower.html

Here are the two pics of Nicole, scroll down:

http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/eighteenth.html

Have fun,

Theresa Eacker

Sue Clemenger wrote:

> I dunno where you guys are looking, but I didn't see Nicole at all, and
> where's this PDF?
> All I get are a few "sample" pictures--not much else.
> --sue, puzzled


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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
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On Monday 10 February 2003 05:20 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:
> >1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
> >
> >at
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2808660165&category
> >=20297
> >
> >Is this real?
>
> I'd say yes, and c1897-98, right after the big poofy sleeves deflated, but
> before they knew what to do with the leftover fullness. But I agree with
> your strange-looking assessment.

I agree completely with your assessment, Kayta. 

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing guidelines for the Civil War Era (book)
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Hi Gwyn,

Sometimes books are placed in special collections not because they are rare,
but because the library has a special collection in that subject area and
wants to be sure they keep that book in the collection.  This happens a lot
at the USC libraries, where I work.

Isn't the book available through ILL from another library?

- Kendra
----- Original Message -----
From: Gwyn Carnegie

I've been having a grand time with Melvyl the last 3 days and only one
request was bounced back. Can anyone tell my why this book would be held in
special collections at UCB? I can't come up with a reason off the top of my
head.



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From: "Jennifer Sena" 
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I buy a lot of costume shoes there because I have feet that fit into 
gawdaweful shoes, but I wont pay full price for something I rarely wear.



Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!




>They've been around long enough that they've hit the thrift stores already.


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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
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I would definetly try the ILL for Munro.  Amazon's used books lists=20

Textiles, Towns and Trade: Essays in the Economic History of =
Late-Medieval England and the Low Countries (Variorum Collected Studies, =
No 442) by John H. A. Munro; Hardcover

for $628.

Lisa
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Gwyn Carnegie=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 1:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths



  Great Biblo Drea,

  Page 35 has the table. It lists the dyeing prices in 3 categories, On=20
  Loom, Fulled, and Tentered. But it doesn't go any further back then =
1282.=20
  The article certainly worth looking up, even just for the footnotes >; =
)

  Munro is fairly prolific and you can find his articles all over. I can =
hit=20
  the stacks tomorrow afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books =
and=20
  see if anything jogs my brain or if I can find the Flemish trade =
manifests=20
  I've been promising Drea.=20

  Below are some recent titles that weren't included . The Stabel =
article should be easy to find Childs has a nice body of work out there =
as well.=20

  Childs, Wendy R. ; The English export trade in cloth in the fourteenth =
century.=20
   Progress and Problems in Medieval England: Essays in Honour of Edward =
Miller. Ed. Richard BRITNELL and John HATCHER. Pp. xvi, 317. Cambridge: =
Cambridge University Press.=20
  ISSN/ISBN: 0-521-55036-X=20

  Chorley, Patrick ; The Ypres cloth industry 1200-1350: the pattern of =
change in output and demand.=20
  From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: =
Archaeological and Historical Contributions=20

  Heckett, Elizabeth Wincott ; Archaeological textiles from 13th/14th =
century Irish towns.=20
  From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: =
Archaeological and Historical Contributions=20

  Henry, Philippa A. ; Development and change in late Saxon textile =
production: an analysis of the evidence.=20
  Durham Archaeological Journal: Transactions of the Architectural and =
Archaeological Society of Durham and Northumberland , vol 14-15, 1999, =
69-76=20

  Sorber, Frieda ; The making of cloth: state of the art technology in =
the Middle Ages.=20
  From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: =
Archaeological and Historical Contributions=20

  Stabel, Peter ; Marketing cloth in the Low Countries: manufacturers, =
brokers and merchants (14th-16th centuries).=20
  From: International Trade in the Low Countries (14th-16th Centuries): =
Merchants, Organization, Infrastructure. Proceedings of the =
International Conference, Ghent-Antwerp, 12th-13th January 1997=20


  Gwyn Carnegie
  University of California at Davis=20

  At 10:51 PM 2/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:



    Page 35 has the table. It lists the dyeing prices in 3 catagories, =
On=20
    Loom, Fulled, and Tentered. But it doesn't go any further back then =
1282.=20
    The article certainly worth looking up, even just for the footnotes =
>; )

    Munro is fairly prolific and you can find his articles all over. I =
can hit=20
    the stacks tomorrow afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books =
and=20
    see if anything jogs my brain or if I can find the flemish trade =
manifests=20
    I've been promissing Drea.=20

    There are two articles that are sticking in my head but I can't find =
them=20
    in my binders, one is on lead stamps (tax stamps) during this time =
period=20
    and the other by the editor of the Pasold series Carus-Wilson. I =
think I=20
    remember they dealt with earlier textiles then 1282.

    Anges G article

    Gwyn

    > Drea Leed wrote:
    > >=20
    > > Sure.  The article was "Textile Technology" by John Munro, in =
the book
    > > "Textiles, Towns & Trade: Essays in the Economic History of Late =

    Medieval
    > > England and the Low Countries (London: Variorum 1994)
    > >=20
    > > Another absolutely fascinating article in the same book is "The=20
    Medieval
    > > Scarlet and the Economics of Sartorial Splendour", also by =
Munro.  It
    > > examines the whole issue of scarlet in more detail than I'd ever =
seen,
    > > listing all sorts of prices and widths and facts from Flemish =
trade=20
    books.
    > >=20
    > > These two and a whole bunch of other reeeeeally =
bad-for-the-budget
    > > articles are in the following bibliography on medieval wool
    > > production:
    > >=20
    > > http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/2MEDCLTH1.pdf
    > >=20
    > > Enjoy,
    > >=20
    > > Drea
    > >=20
    > > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Colleen McDonald wrote:
    > >=20
    > > > < > > woolen fabric in the 14th century, last night.  The author =
talked=20
    about
    > > > how the broad loom was in use by the mid-1300s, which could =
produce=20
    fabric
    > > > about 60 inches wide.  Unfulled, though, so that may not be an =

    accurate
    > > > measurement for finished, fulled cloth.  Only wool cloth was=20
    mentioned; no
    > > > idea if it also applied to linen, but from what I recall linen
    > > > traditionally came in narrower widths.>>
    > > >
    > > > Drea, can you give us the citation info on this source?  I'll =
add to=20
    my stash of info.
    > > >
    > > > Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been =
digging=20
    into it for a current project and haven't come up with anything =
specific.

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I would definetly try the ILL for =
Munro. =20
Amazon's used books lists 


 


Textiles,=20
Towns and Trade: Essays in the Economic History of Late-Medieval England =
and the=20
Low Countries (Variorum Collected Studies, No 442) by John =
H. A.=20
Munro; Hardcover


 


for $628.


 


Lisa



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Gwyn=20
  Carnegie 
  
  
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 =
1:08=20
  PM

  
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: =
fabric=20
  widths

  


Great Biblo Drea,

Page 35 has the table. It =
lists=20
  the dyeing prices in 3 categories, On 
Loom, Fulled, and Tentered. =
But it=20
  doesn't go any further back then 1282. 
The article certainly worth =
looking=20
  up, even just for the footnotes >; )

Munro is fairly =
prolific and=20
  you can find his articles all over. I can hit 
the stacks tomorrow=20
  afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books and 
see if =
anything jogs=20
  my brain or if I can find the Flemish trade manifests 
I've been =
promising=20
  Drea. 

Below are some recent titles that weren't included . The =
Stabel=20
  article should be easy to find Childs has a nice body of work out =
there as=20
  well. 

Childs, Wendy R. ; The English export trade in cloth in the fourteenth =
century.=20
  
 Progress and Problems =
in Medieval=20
  England: Essays in Honour of Edward Miller. Ed. Richard BRITNELL and =
John=20
  HATCHER. Pp. xvi, 317. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. =

ISSN/ISBN: 0-521-55036-X =


Chorley, Patrick ;=20
  The Ypres cloth industry 1200-1350: the pattern of change in output =
and=20
  demand. 
From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders:=20
  Archaeological and Historical Contributions 

Heckett, Elizabeth =
Wincott=20
  ; Archaeological textiles from =
13th/14th=20
  century Irish towns. 
From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry =
in=20
  Flanders: Archaeological and Historical Contributions 

Henry, =
Philippa=20
  A. ; Development and change in late Saxon textile production: an =
analysis of=20
  the evidence. 
Durham Archaeological Journal: Transactions of the=20
  Architectural and Archaeological Society of Durham and Northumberland =
, vol=20
  14-15, 1999, 69-76 

Sorber, Frieda ; The making of cloth: state of the art technology in =
the Middle=20
  Ages. 
From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders:=20
  Archaeological and Historical Contributions 

Stabel, Peter ; =
Marketing=20
  cloth in the Low Countries: manufacturers, brokers and merchants =
(14th-16th=20
  centuries). 
From: International Trade in the Low =
Countries=20
  (14th-16th Centuries): Merchants, Organization, Infrastructure. =
Proceedings of=20
  the International Conference, Ghent-Antwerp, 12th-13th January =
1997=20
  


Gwyn Carnegie
University of California at Davis =


At=20
  10:51 PM 2/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:



  
Page 35 has the =
table. It lists=20
    the dyeing prices in 3 catagories, On 
Loom, Fulled, and =
Tentered. But it=20
    doesn't go any further back then 1282. 
The article certainly =
worth=20
    looking up, even just for the footnotes >; )

Munro is =
fairly=20
    prolific and you can find his articles all over. I can hit 
the =
stacks=20
    tomorrow afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books and =

see if=20
    anything jogs my brain or if I can find the flemish trade manifests =

I've=20
    been promissing Drea. 

There are two articles that are =
sticking in my=20
    head but I can't find them 
in my binders, one is on lead stamps =
(tax=20
    stamps) during this time period 
and the other by the editor of =
the=20
    Pasold series Carus-Wilson. I think I 
remember they dealt with =
earlier=20
    textiles then 1282.

Anges G article

Gwyn

> =
Drea Leed=20
    wrote:
> > 
> > Sure.  The article was =
"Textile=20
    Technology" by John Munro, in the book
> > "Textiles, Towns =
&=20
    Trade: Essays in the Economic History of Late 
Medieval
> =
>=20
    England and the Low Countries (London: Variorum 1994)
> > =

>=20
    > Another absolutely fascinating article in the same book is "The =

    
Medieval
> > Scarlet and the Economics of Sartorial =
Splendour",=20
    also by Munro.  It
> > examines the whole issue of =
scarlet in=20
    more detail than I'd ever seen,
> > listing all sorts of =
prices and=20
    widths and facts from Flemish trade 
books.
> > 
> =
>=20
    These two and a whole bunch of other reeeeeally =
bad-for-the-budget
>=20
    > articles are in the following bibliography on medieval =
wool
>=20
    > production:
> > 
> > http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/2MEDCLTH1.pdf<=
/A>
>=20
    > 
> > Enjoy,
> > 
> > Drea
> =
>=20
    
> > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Colleen McDonald wrote:
> =
>=20
    
> > > <<As luck would have it, I was just reading =
an=20
    article about the 
widths of
> > > woolen fabric in =
the 14th=20
    century, last night.  The author talked 
about
> > =
> how=20
    the broad loom was in use by the mid-1300s, which could produce=20
    
fabric
> > > about 60 inches wide.  Unfulled, =
though,=20
    so that may not be an 
accurate
> > > measurement for =

    finished, fulled cloth.  Only wool cloth was 
mentioned; =
no
>=20
    > > idea if it also applied to linen, but from what I recall=20
    linen
> > > traditionally came in narrower=20
    widths.>>
> > >
> > > Drea, can you =
give us=20
    the citation info on this source?  I'll add to 
my stash of=20
    info.
> > >
> > > Also, do you have any =
sources on=20
    linen width?  I've been digging 
into it for a current =
project and=20
    haven't come up with anything =
specific.


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>I have one at home, but really, all it is, is four panels of
>eggwarmer-shape.
>hehe, it really does look like a giant eggwarmer, don't they?

OK, this is me feeling stupid, but what is an egg warmer and what shape is 
it in?  What would you need to warm eggs for?




Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!



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On Monday 10 February 2003 09:54 pm, Lisa Sinervo wrote:
> I would definetly try the ILL for Munro.  Amazon's used books lists
>
> Textiles, Towns and Trade: Essays in the Economic History of Late-Medieval
> England and the Low Countries (Variorum Collected Studies, No 442) by John
> H. A. Munro; Hardcover
>
To heck with Amazon.  I've *never* been able to find a rare costume-related 
book I wanted there.  Use Addall (www.addall.com) to search scores of used 
book stores in the US, Europe, and Australia.

I found vendors carrying Elspeth Veale's book (though for more than I'm 
presently prepared to pay for it), and have found other rare books there in 
the past.  Good luck!


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered male cap photos
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Catherine wrote:
> Nagging in the back of my head is a memory of an illustration in, I
> think, one of Thmasina Beck's books of a printed pattern for one of
> these.  I'll have to dig out my notes tonight when I get home.

"The Embroiderer's Flowers" has the pattern you're thinking of.  Mary
Gostelow's "Blackwork" also has a partially complete cap spread out
flat; it has feathers on it.  I started making it at one point, but
never got further than one feather.

K.

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "poulaine" toes
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:29:27 -0500
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I likewise have seen them in the stores and in some of the 'better'
catalogues for about a year.  I bought a pair with a Louis heel and cream
shantung uppers,  on sale, with the thought of using  them with a period
gown.  I got away with it for the occasion, but the elongated look and form
was somewhat awkward, even with the square toe.  I've had trouble with the
stilettos of the 1950s, too.
          Kathleen...and then, there are the 6" heel jobies that I won't
try.
Original Message -----
From: "Gail & Scott Finke" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 2:32 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: "poulaine" toes


>
> I have seen these in the stores for a year or so. I tried a pair on once
and
> I thought they looked ridiculous! Which, of course, has nothing to do with
> whether or not they are fashionable. I didn't try walking in them, though.
>
> Gail Finke
>
> _______________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
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I have been wondering if the strangeness might be the result of the
make-over of a more formal gown (wedding?)  That could account for the
remarkable contrast between the ivory/yellow of the main design and the
green trim.  I find myself remembering the red and white repro gown we
discussed last month.  The bodice and sleeve speak the end of the 19th C.
for sure, and the 'points are almost the first couple of years of the 20th.
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS


> On Monday 10 February 2003 05:20 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:
> > >1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
> > >
> > >at
> > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2808660165&category
> > >=20297
> > >
> > >Is this real?
> >
> > I'd say yes, and c1897-98, right after the big poofy sleeves deflated,
but
> > before they knew what to do with the leftover fullness. But I agree with
> > your strange-looking assessment.
>
> I agree completely with your assessment, Kayta.
>
> --
> Cathy Raymond 
>
> "If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman
>
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
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In a message dated 2/10/03 10:44:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes:

<< That could account for the
 remarkable contrast between the ivory/yellow of the main design and the
 green trim.  I find myself remembering the red and white repro gown we
 discussed last month.  The bodice and sleeve speak the end of the 19th C.
 for sure, and the 'points are almost the first couple of years of the 20th. 
>>

Interesting observations. But the contrast in trims and fabrics IS very 
1890s. And the points on the skirt are too....if supported correctly. Some of 
the real 1890s skirts I've seen will stand by themselves. And, yes, the lines 
of the points continues [as does the trumpet shaped skirt] into the next 
century. It gets softer though.
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1800'S VICTORIAN VELVET SILK LADIES DRESS
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If you look in the Dover publication "American Dress Pattern Catalogs
1873-1909" edited by Nancy Bryk, you will see on page 97, a facsimile of
the April 1894 Ladies Standard Magazine, a dress with most of the
elements of the dress in question including the sleeve style and the
contrasting inserts in the hem of the skirt. On page 90, you can see a
skirt treatment which, while not identical to the one in the cream and
olive dress, has much the same style element of the pointed drops
descending from waist level. You will see other outfits with similar
stylistic elements on pages 83, 85, and 98. I believe this puts the dress
in question squarely in mid-decade.


Karen

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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Thread for wool
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Stevie wrote:

<>

Stevie--

This caught my eye, so I pulled out my "Tailors'
Guide: The Making and Repairing of Trousers, Vests,
and Coats" and looked up what was recommended for
professional tailors in 1901. Per the "experts" of the
period, either silk or #35 thread was the preferred
item for sewing seams. It says quite specifically that
while tailors' cottons range from #24 to #40 on reels,
it may replace silk for general economy, but cannot be
used for strong seams.

These days, I (and most people I know) use Gutermann's
100% poly thread for most sewing (we also use sewing
machines)and pre-waxed Silamide 100% nylon hand sewing
thread for things not requiring the "A-R" approach. If
I'm doing something "A-R," I use Gutermann's silk
thread for wool, Coats 100% cotton quilting thread for
cotton, and Belgian linen thread for linen.

Fussy details:

1) The book referred to, "Tailors'Guide," is a reprint
of a tailors' handbook called "Tailoring," published
in London in 1901. The current book (no ISBN) is
published by Rick Haven of Little Village Tailor,
Williamsburg, VA, and is available from AlterYears.
Price $22. 

2) Rice's Silamide is a pre-cut pre-waxed hand-sewing
nylon thread used in the tailoring industry. It is
available from companies specializing in tailors'
supplies (Atlanta Thread & Supply is one). Price
usually around $6 for a package of 650 "needlefuls"
(about 3' of thread).

Dawn

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Heather Rose Jones wrote:

> I wonder if it's linguistically related to "grenadine" (i.e.,
> pomegranate syrup), which is a garnet color.

Here's the etymology from the OED.  The accents didn't cut-n-paste.

--Charlene

[a. OF. *gernat, grenat (whence also MDu. garnate, gernate), ad. med.L.
grntum, according to some a transferred use of L. grntum POMEGRANATE
(cf.
next), the stone having probably been so called from its resemblance in
colour to
the pulp of the fruit; others consider it a derivative of med.L. grnum,
grna
GRAIN, cochineal, red dye. See also GRANATE2.] 

-- 
Thou shalt not bear false witness.  But there are still plenty of true
things that you can say to get your brother in trouble.  -- Raymond
Lesser, 20 Things I Learned from God (or voices inside my head, I'm not
sure which, yet)
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:37:23 -0700
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Interesting.  The articles I've read about thread distinctly warn
_against_ using silk thread with wool, because the silk is stronger than
the wool, and can cut it, leaving holes, ripped seams, etc.  I've got at
least one article in a _Threads_ magazine here at the house if we need
more-specific details.
Stevie, I'd imagine that if you're going for the authentic side of
things, linen's probably your best bet.  If that's not so important, a
good all-cotton, or polyester-core/cotton exterior thread would
certainly do the job.
--sue

Jacobson Dawn wrote:
> 
> Stevie wrote:
> 
> < 
> Could I please jump on Sue's bandwagon and seek advice
> on the
> appropriate thread to use for sewing wool garments.
> 
> Post 1282, that is:-)
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie>>
> 
> Stevie--
> 
> This caught my eye, so I pulled out my "Tailors'
> Guide: The Making and Repairing of Trousers, Vests,
> and Coats" and looked up what was recommended for
> professional tailors in 1901. Per the "experts" of the
> period, either silk or #35 thread was the preferred
> item for sewing seams. It says quite specifically that
> while tailors' cottons range from #24 to #40 on reels,
> it may replace silk for general economy, but cannot be
> used for strong seams.
> 
> These days, I (and most people I know) use Gutermann's
> 100% poly thread for most sewing (we also use sewing
> machines)and pre-waxed Silamide 100% nylon hand sewing
> thread for things not requiring the "A-R" approach. If
> I'm doing something "A-R," I use Gutermann's silk
> thread for wool, Coats 100% cotton quilting thread for
> cotton, and Belgian linen thread for linen.
> 
> Fussy details:
> 
> 1) The book referred to, "Tailors'Guide," is a reprint
> of a tailors' handbook called "Tailoring," published
> in London in 1901. The current book (no ISBN) is
> published by Rick Haven of Little Village Tailor,
> Williamsburg, VA, and is available from AlterYears.
> Price $22.
> 
> 2) Rice's Silamide is a pre-cut pre-waxed hand-sewing
> nylon thread used in the tailoring industry. It is
> available from companies specializing in tailors'
> supplies (Atlanta Thread & Supply is one). Price
> usually around $6 for a package of 650 "needlefuls"
> (about 3' of thread).
> 
> Dawn
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:41:56 -0700
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Interesting, isn't it, how some of the letters in the word "switched"
places--there's a specific term for that, but my linguistics classes
were _way_ too long ago to remember.....Same thing occurs when people
say "Aks" for "Ask."  I bet it's related to the use of "noo-cue-lar" as
a pronunciation for "nuclear" (noo-clee-ar).
English is _so_ weird.  Do other languages do this??
--sue, rambling and completely OT 

Charlene Charette wrote:
> 
> Heather Rose Jones wrote:
> 
> > I wonder if it's linguistically related to "grenadine" (i.e.,
> > pomegranate syrup), which is a garnet color.
> 
> Here's the etymology from the OED.  The accents didn't cut-n-paste.
> 
> --Charlene
> 
> [a. OF. *gernat, grenat (whence also MDu. garnate, gernate), ad. med.L.
> grntum, according to some a transferred use of L. grntum POMEGRANATE
> (cf.
> next), the stone having probably been so called from its resemblance in
> colour to
> the pulp of the fruit; others consider it a derivative of med.L. grnum,
> grna
> GRAIN, cochineal, red dye. See also GRANATE2.]
> 
> --
> Thou shalt not bear false witness.  But there are still plenty of true
> things that you can say to get your brother in trouble.  -- Raymond
> Lesser, 20 Things I Learned from God (or voices inside my head, I'm not
> sure which, yet)
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:46:00 -0700
Status: RO

Uhm, like, if you're having soft-boiled eggs for breakfast? When I was a
kid, we had this little set of egg cups, each done up as a different
face.  The egg-warmers were these little, knitted "hats"--very cute, and
probably *very* 60s!  They covered the top half of the egg, that was
sticking out of the egg cup.  Kept the egg warm while you were eating
the rest of your breakfast, or whatever.
So, basically, an egg-warmer shape is a 3-d ellipse, like one-half of an
american football, only not so pointed.
Does that help?
--sue

Jennifer Sena wrote:
> 
> >I have one at home, but really, all it is, is four panels of
> >eggwarmer-shape.
> >hehe, it really does look like a giant eggwarmer, don't they?
> 
> OK, this is me feeling stupid, but what is an egg warmer and what shape is
> it in?  What would you need to warm eggs for?
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 01:15:02 2003
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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
To: 
References: <01e101c2d004$3832dfe0$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net>	 <01e801c2d008$201ecb40$0400a8c0@centrl01.va.comcast.net>  <3E4886E6.207AF6CA@earthlink.net> <3E488D24.3173D2BA@in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What does this mean....
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 06:18:42 -0000
Status: RO

>English is _so_ weird.  Do other languages do this??

Yes the whole point it it is a shift in ways of pronunciation ie the word is
French which being an Indo European language is related to English we share
an aweful lot of words. The greater the change the longer the split was
generaly, but borrowing occurs of course like hotel to English, and le
weekend in French

Both garnet & grenat  have the same origins, it Latin presumably

Then there is the big shifts in meaning like naughty :)

Mel
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered male cap photos
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:57:30 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

Our eggwarmers were sewn, not knitted, and constructed _just_ like the caps:
four panels of petal shapes sewn together. I remember that I loved our
eggwarmers because it was fun to pay with and I borrowed them for dolls I
think. That was in the 70s but I guess my mum still had them from the 60s.
They kept indeed the egg warm, there is nothing worse than a soft boiled egg
that is cold. YUCK!

Nicole
 
-- Sue Clemenger  wrote: > Uhm, like, if you're having
soft-boiled eggs for breakfast? When I was a
> kid, we had this little set of egg cups, each done up as a different
> face.  The egg-warmers were these little, knitted "hats"--very cute, and
> probably *very* 60s!  They covered the top half of the egg, that was
> sticking out of the egg cup.  Kept the egg warm while you were eating
> the rest of your breakfast, or whatever.
> So, basically, an egg-warmer shape is a 3-d ellipse, like one-half of an
> american football, only not so pointed.
> Does that help?
> --sue
> 
> Jennifer Sena wrote:
> > 
> > >I have one at home, but really, all it is, is four panels of
> > >eggwarmer-shape.
> > >hehe, it really does look like a giant eggwarmer, don't they?
> > 
> > OK, this is me feeling stupid, but what is an egg warmer and what shape is
> > it in?  What would you need to warm eggs for?
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: [h-cost] OED
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:59:34 -0600
Status: RO


Charlene--
How did you cut and paste from the OED? Is there an electronic version
available?

Kim


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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 14:31:37 +0000
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I've always known them as egg-cosies, though we never actually used them at our house. Similar to a tea-cosy for keeping the teapot warm. I've just remembered that in the 1950s my grandmother had a tea-cosy in the form of a crinoline lady, with the lady's upper half made of china with holes for stitching her into her "skirt".


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> mooncat@in-tch.com 02/11/03 05:46am >>>
Uhm, like, if you're having soft-boiled eggs for breakfast? When I was a
kid, we had this little set of egg cups, each done up as a different
face.  The egg-warmers were these little, knitted "hats"--very cute, and
probably *very* 60s!  They covered the top half of the egg, that was
sticking out of the egg cup.  Kept the egg warm while you were eating
the rest of your breakfast, or whatever.
So, basically, an egg-warmer shape is a 3-d ellipse, like one-half of an
american football, only not so pointed.
Does that help?
--sue

Jennifer Sena wrote:
> 
> >I have one at home, but really, all it is, is four panels of
> >eggwarmer-shape.
> >hehe, it really does look like a giant eggwarmer, don't they?
> 
> OK, this is me feeling stupid, but what is an egg warmer and what shape is
> it in?  What would you need to warm eggs for?
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 10:13:40 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered male cap photos
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:14:53 -0700
Status: RO

I used mine for dolls' hats, too.
I didn't mean to imply that the whole eggwarmer thing was 60s-ish, just
that our particular ones were.
And you're right...cold, soft eggs....yecch!
--sue

N Kipar wrote:
> 
> Our eggwarmers were sewn, not knitted, and constructed _just_ like the caps:
> four panels of petal shapes sewn together. I remember that I loved our
> eggwarmers because it was fun to pay with and I borrowed them for dolls I
> think. That was in the 70s but I guess my mum still had them from the 60s.
> They kept indeed the egg warm, there is nothing worse than a soft boiled egg
> that is cold. YUCK!
> 
> Nicole
> 
> -- Sue Clemenger  wrote: > Uhm, like, if you're having
> soft-boiled eggs for breakfast? When I was a
> > kid, we had this little set of egg cups, each done up as a different
> > face.  The egg-warmers were these little, knitted "hats"--very cute, and
> > probably *very* 60s!  They covered the top half of the egg, that was
> > sticking out of the egg cup.  Kept the egg warm while you were eating
> > the rest of your breakfast, or whatever.
> > So, basically, an egg-warmer shape is a 3-d ellipse, like one-half of an
> > american football, only not so pointed.
> > Does that help?
> > --sue
> >
> > Jennifer Sena wrote:
> > >
> > > >I have one at home, but really, all it is, is four panels of
> > > >eggwarmer-shape.
> > > >hehe, it really does look like a giant eggwarmer, don't they?
> > >
> > > OK, this is me feeling stupid, but what is an egg warmer and what shape is
> > > it in?  What would you need to warm eggs for?
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: "poulaine" toes
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 05:55:51 -0800 (PST)
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Did anyone answer the question yet about what
'poulaines' actually are? If so, please pardon my
repetition... If not, here's what they are: long,
pointy-toed shoes popular in the late 14th century.
The 'typical' poulaine had a low-slung top with a
strap across the top of your foot, attached at the
outside with a buckle. They were made of leather for
the most part (AFAIK). The length of the pointy toe
could be quite exaggerated and thin. Extant examples
found in London (_Shoes and Pattens_ by Francis Grew
and Margrethe de Neergaard) often had moss stuffed in
the pointy-toe part, to keep it stiffened. Apparently
the moss had good absorbing qualities, not a bad idea
in any shoe. I've got my 'poulainettes' (my own word,
there) stuffed with sheep's wool because I had the
same problem of creasing where the toes end.

You can also see a picture of an extant poulaine in
_20,000 Years of Fashion_ by Francois Boucher.

If you really want to see a weird footwear system,
though, get into pattens, the mostly wooden platform-y
sandals worn over poulaines and other shoes of that
time. They'll do wonders in protecting thin-soled
shoes (and feet) from an uneven ground, or muck, but
they sure look bizarre from a modern sensibility.
"Sandals over your shoes? Huh?"

All best,
-Tasha

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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
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Subject: [h-cost] ebay-extant poulaine sole
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For those interested, a poulaine sole is currently up for grabs on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D355&item=3D25064=
80415&rd=3D1

current price $15.00

ummm........do I really NEED a medieval shoe sole???  would be awful =
nice!!!


Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com

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For those interested, a poulaine sole =
is currently=20
up for grabs on ebay


 


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi=
ewItem&category=3D355&item=3D2506480415&rd=3D1

 


current price $15.00


 


ummm........do I really NEED a =
medieval shoe=20
sole???  would be awful nice!!!


 


 


Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. =
Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com<=
/DIV>

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Nope. I think you are right about the special collection after locating a 
few other closely related titles that certainly are not rare.

At 06:26 PM 2/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Gwyn,
>Sometimes books are placed in special collections not because they are rare,
>but because the library has a special collection in that subject area and
>wants to be sure they keep that book in the collection.  This happens a lot
>at the USC libraries, where I work.
>Isn't the book available through ILL from another library?
>- Kendra


>----- Original Message -----
>From: Gwyn Carnegie
>I've been having a grand time with Melvyl the last 3 days and only one
>request was bounced back. Can anyone tell my why this book would be held in
>special collections at UCB? I can't come up with a reason off the top of my
>head.
>

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis  
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Nope. I think you are right about the special collection after locating a
few other closely related titles that certainly are not rare. 



At 06:26 PM 2/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:


Hi Gwyn,

Sometimes books are placed in special collections not because they are
rare,

but because the library has a special collection in that subject area
and

wants to be sure they keep that book in the collection.  This
happens a lot

at the USC libraries, where I work.

Isn't the book available through ILL from another library?

- Kendra




----- Original Message -----

From: Gwyn Carnegie

I've been having a grand time with Melvyl the last 3 days and only
one

request was bounced back. Can anyone tell my why this book would be held
in

special collections at UCB? I can't come up with a reason off the top of
my

head.

<snip>


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 12:19:51 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Thread for wool
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Sue Clemenger wrote:

<>

I've also read these same warnings and, quite frankly,
have been using silk for hand sewing wool for more
than 20 years, and never had a problem, including
sewing some fairly heavy items such as cloaks. I use
very good quality wool, good quality silk thread that
has been waxed, and a stitch that is appropriate for
the type of stresses a seam would be subjected to.
Also, I like the idea of using "like" materials:
protein-based thread (silk) with protein-based fabric
(wool) because both will react about the same way when
cleaned or dyed. This is only for hand sewing when I'm
really being A-R; otherwise, I use poly thread in my
sewing machine.

My guess is that if you used a very fine silk thread
(say #100), a small stitch setting on a sewing
machine, then tried to sew a poor-quality piece of
wool, the silk would probably cut through the wool
fibers.

Also, most of the costumers I know stay away from, and
warn others away from poly core/cotton exterior thread
(Coats & Clark Dual Duty is the best known). It has a
terrible tendency to separate into its component parts
as it passes through the sewing machine needle.

Thread choice is a personal preference; everybody has
his or her own favorites, and these are mine. Doesn't
make them any better or worse, they're just the ones
that work for me.

Dawn
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This was "Clothing Guidelines for the Civil War Era" by Janet 
Burgess?  It's just a little photocopied booklet Amazon Drygoods 
published and has sold for years.  Tells you things like how to 
adapt a thrift store shirt into a man's evening shirt.  Basic 
Dickens Faire/dress-up type stuff.  Anyway, I'm pretty sure Amazon 
Drygoods still sells it,for only a few dollars, if you want it.

Fran

Gwyn Carnegie wrote:
> 
> Nope. I think you are right about the special collection after locating 
> a few other closely related titles that certainly are not rare. 
> 
> At 06:26 PM 2/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> 
>> Hi Gwyn,
>> Sometimes books are placed in special collections not because they are 
>> rare,
>> but because the library has a special collection in that subject area and
>> wants to be sure they keep that book in the collection.  This happens 
>> a lot
>> at the USC libraries, where I work.
>> Isn't the book available through ILL from another library?
>> - Kendra
> 
> 
> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Gwyn Carnegie
>> I've been having a grand time with Melvyl the last 3 days and only one
>> request was bounced back. Can anyone tell my why this book would be 
>> held in
>> special collections at UCB? I can't come up with a reason off the top 
>> of my
>> head.
>> 
> 
> 
> Gwyn Carnegie
> University of California, Davis

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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:32:11 -0800
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That's the one. Which is why I was so curious as why it would be held in 
Spec Coll, considering all the other items I was requesting without a snag.

curiouser and curiouser said Alice

At 09:23 AM 2/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>This was "Clothing Guidelines for the Civil War Era" by Janet 
>Burgess?  It's just a little photocopied booklet Amazon Drygoods published 
>and has sold for years.  Tells you things like how to adapt a thrift store 
>shirt into a man's evening shirt.  Basic Dickens Faire/dress-up type 
>stuff.  Anyway, I'm pretty sure Amazon Drygoods still sells it,for only a 
>few dollars, if you want it.
>
>Fran
>
>Gwyn Carnegie wrote:
>>Nope. I think you are right about the special collection after locating a 
>>few other closely related titles that certainly are not rare.
>>At 06:26 PM 2/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Gwyn,
>>>Sometimes books are placed in special collections not because they are rare,
>>>but because the library has a special collection in that subject area and
>>>wants to be sure they keep that book in the collection.  This happens a lot
>>>at the USC libraries, where I work.
>>>Isn't the book available through ILL from another library?
>>>- Kendra
>>
>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Gwyn Carnegie
>>>I've been having a grand time with Melvyl the last 3 days and only one
>>>request was bounced back. Can anyone tell my why this book would be held in
>>>special collections at UCB? I can't come up with a reason off the top of my
>>>head.
>>>
>>
>>Gwyn Carnegie
>>University of California, Davis

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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:59:34 -0500
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   On this subject, I am in the process of altering some wool blazer sleeves
for my husband and have notices that silk thread appears to be the tailors
choice for the high end garments...also for my skirts.
Kathleen
From: "Jacobson Dawn" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 12:20 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Thread for wool


> Sue Clemenger wrote:
>
> < distinctly warn
> _against_ using silk thread with wool, because the
> silk is stronger
> than
> the wool, and can cut it, leaving holes, ripped seams,
> etc.  I've got
> at
> least one article in a _Threads_ magazine here at the
> house if we need
> more-specific details.
> Stevie, I'd imagine that if you're going for the
> authentic side of
> things, linen's probably your best bet.  If that's not
> so important, a
> good all-cotton, or polyester-core/cotton exterior
> thread would
> certainly do the job.>>
>
> I've also read these same warnings and, quite frankly,
> have been using silk for hand sewing wool for more
> than 20 years, and never had a problem, including
> sewing some fairly heavy items such as cloaks. I use
> very good quality wool, good quality silk thread that
> has been waxed, and a stitch that is appropriate for
> the type of stresses a seam would be subjected to.
> Also, I like the idea of using "like" materials:
> protein-based thread (silk) with protein-based fabric
> (wool) because both will react about the same way when
> cleaned or dyed. This is only for hand sewing when I'm
> really being A-R; otherwise, I use poly thread in my
> sewing machine.
>
> My guess is that if you used a very fine silk thread
> (say #100), a small stitch setting on a sewing
> machine, then tried to sew a poor-quality piece of
> wool, the silk would probably cut through the wool
> fibers.
>
> Also, most of the costumers I know stay away from, and
> warn others away from poly core/cotton exterior thread
> (Coats & Clark Dual Duty is the best known). It has a
> terrible tendency to separate into its component parts
> as it passes through the sewing machine needle.
>
> Thread choice is a personal preference; everybody has
> his or her own favorites, and these are mine. Doesn't
> make them any better or worse, they're just the ones
> that work for me.
>
> Dawn
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From: mabse@attbi.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Thread for wool
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:03:38 +0000
Status: RO

 Thread choice is a personal preference; everybody has
 > his or her own favorites, and these are mine. Doesn't
 > make them any better or worse, they're just the ones
 > that work for me.

I would like to respectfully disagree with this statement.  It may be true with 
handsewing, but according to my sewing machine dealer, not with machine sewing. 
 They feel that the use of the cheap polyester thread and even the poly core 
thread can cause problems with the machine.  They are constantly warning that 
you cannot use these kinds of thread without causing problems.  maryann
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:10:35 -0800
Status: RO

you've been missed!


On Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 10:01 AM, Cin wrote:

>> Interesting.  The articles I've read about thread
>> distinctly warn
>> _against_ using silk thread with wool, because the silk is
>
>> stronger than
>> the wool, and can cut it, leaving holes, ripped seams,
>> etc.
>
> In all the tailoring I've done (a respectable amount) I've
> happily used silk for seams on wool garments. It blends
> well with the fiber instead of "mushing" like poly-cotton.
> It doesnt pucker or stretch.  I use a chinese brand, Earth
> Bell, #50 weight.
>
> For buttons, use buttonhole twist... and areas that might
> rip (like the back of shoulder seam in a very tight
> garment) lightweight cotton. Break the thread, not the
> fabric, but mostly I use the silk, even there.
>
> In any case, match the thread weight to the fabric weight,
> jsut like you do with other threads and fabrics.  If you've
> got a coatweight wool, like melton cloth, my fine thread is
> just too fine.  There are lots of different solutions.
>
> --cin
> Cynthia
>
> (Hi, I'm back! At least until grad school gets going in earnest.)
>
> __________________________________________________
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Thread for wool
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:42:06 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- mabse@attbi.com wrote: >  Thread choice is a personal preference;
everybody has
>  > his or her own favorites, and these are mine. Doesn't
>  > make them any better or worse, they're just the ones
>  > that work for me.
> 
> I would like to respectfully disagree with this statement.  It may be true
> with 
> handsewing, but according to my sewing machine dealer, not with machine
> sewing. 
>  They feel that the use of the cheap polyester thread and even the poly core 
> thread can cause problems with the machine.  They are constantly warning that
> 
> you cannot use these kinds of thread without causing problems.  maryann

May I disagree with the disagreement? Not only do I own a high-end computer
machine, albeit a few years old, 7 or 8 I think, but I have been using nothing
but polyester thread (except when using silk thread for special costumes). and
I never had the slightest problem, nor did anyone ever warn me not to use
polyester threads. 

It begins to seem to me that there really isn't a black and white and do or
don't do. Interesting!

Nicole
P.S. I used silk thread too for Ben's fine uniform melton cloth coat.

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: [h-cost] cosies-was embroidered male cap photos
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>I've always known them as egg-cosies, though we never actually used them at 
>our house. Similar to a tea-cosy for keeping the teapot warm. I've just 
>remembered that in the 1950s my grandmother had a tea-cosy in the form of a 
>crinoline lady, with the lady's upper half made of china with holes for 
>stitching her into her "skirt".
>
Thank you for more wonderful information.  I wouldn't know about egg cosies 
because I really detest eggs.  Tea cosies though were a wonderful thing.  
The teapot and I got to play dress up when "the Yankees" were coming.  :)



Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!






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Last season I bought myself an off-the-peg linen shift, rather than spend ages tracking down real linen. However, it had drawstrings at neck and wrists, which this list has assured me is inauthentic for the mid-17th century. As one of my winter projects I decided to alter it.
 I've gathered the sleeves onto narrow wristbands and made eyelet holes to take ribbons, following Nicole's suggestion. (As I'm small, there's plenty of spare fabric.) Now I'm debating the best way to treat the neckline, which I want to leave moderately low. I'd thought of gathering it onto a similar band, with a small front opening closed by a ribbon, but now I'm wondering if it would be better to stabilise the gathers with a bias binding which would not show? Has anyone any suggestions?

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:01:18 -0800 (PST)
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>Interesting.  The articles I've read about thread 
>distinctly warn
>_against_ using silk thread with wool, because the silk is

>stronger than
>the wool, and can cut it, leaving holes, ripped seams,
>etc. 

In all the tailoring I've done (a respectable amount) I've
happily used silk for seams on wool garments. It blends
well with the fiber instead of "mushing" like poly-cotton. 
It doesnt pucker or stretch.  I use a chinese brand, Earth
Bell, #50 weight.

For buttons, use buttonhole twist... and areas that might
rip (like the back of shoulder seam in a very tight
garment) lightweight cotton. Break the thread, not the
fabric, but mostly I use the silk, even there.

In any case, match the thread weight to the fabric weight,
jsut like you do with other threads and fabrics.  If you've
got a coatweight wool, like melton cloth, my fine thread is
just too fine.  There are lots of different solutions.

--cin
Cynthia

(Hi, I'm back! At least until grad school gets going in earnest.)

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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:07:45 -0700
Status: RO

Like Nicole, I've got to disagree with your disagreement, I think.
I've been using sewing machines for over 30 years, and never had a
problem with a polyester-core thread, per se.  In fact, with some types
of sewing, it's very much preferred.  It's the thread of choice, for
instance, in making high-quality canvas tents and tipis--the core
provides strength, and the cotton exterior swells when wet and helps
"plug" the stitching hole, helping to prevent leakage.
Perhaps the warning is specific to the type of machine you're using, or
the type of sewing you're doing? I'll freely admit to not having done
anything with any of the really fancy modern/computerized machines, or
any of the "embroidery"-specific machines.
--sue, who only uses the occasional spool of cheap stuff for
hand-basting, anyways....

mabse@attbi.com wrote:
> 
>  Thread choice is a personal preference; everybody has
>  > his or her own favorites, and these are mine. Doesn't
>  > make them any better or worse, they're just the ones
>  > that work for me.
> 
> I would like to respectfully disagree with this statement.  It may be true with
> handsewing, but according to my sewing machine dealer, not with machine sewing.
>  They feel that the use of the cheap polyester thread and even the poly core
> thread can cause problems with the machine.  They are constantly warning that
> you cannot use these kinds of thread without causing problems.  maryann
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> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thread for wool
> From: Heather Meadows 

> you've been missed!

Why thank-you!  Did I miss any rollicking discussions,
fabulous web galleries of list members, pointers to new
museum collections or stimulating gossip?

--cin
Cynthia

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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 13:45:47 -0600
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Kim Baird wrote:
 
> How did you cut and paste from the OED? Is there an electronic version
> available?

There is an electronic version available by subscription.  My local
library subscribes and I can log on from home with my library card.

--Charlene

-- 
If a word is misspelled in a dictionary, how would we ever know?
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Subject: [h-cost] Thread for wool
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 20:09:44 -0000
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Hi all,

Many thanks for all the very helpful responses on this; I've learnt a
lot.
It seems as if it's down to a choice between silk and linen for hand
sewing expensive finely woven wool; the only other possibility which
occurred to me was using wool threads from the woven wool itself. That
way it would at least get the colour right, but is it suitable for
sewing with?

best wishes
Stevie

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Subject: [h-cost] Choosing Colour Combinations (slightly OT)
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 20:17:45 -0000
Status: RO

Hi all,

I have a problem with colour combinations; I have some fabric which is
predominantly grey, with some brown tones. I want to accentuate the
grey, and play down the brown, but I don't know how to do this. I'm
pretty sure that I should not put it alongside another grey, since
that would make the brown stand out, but I don't know how to negate
the brown, as it were. My trusty colour wheel doesn't offer help on
this one, so any advice would be much appreciated.

best wishes
Stevie

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From: "Lyn Greaves- home" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Choosing Colour Combinations (slightly OT)
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:16:24 -0500
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Add a blue?  I would say that anything in the yellow tones would bring out
the brown- you want to stick to something "cool".


Lyn Greaves
Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton
COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander



----- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:17 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Choosing Colour Combinations (slightly OT)


> Hi all,
>
> I have a problem with colour combinations; I have some fabric which is
> predominantly grey, with some brown tones. I want to accentuate the
> grey, and play down the brown, but I don't know how to do this. I'm
> pretty sure that I should not put it alongside another grey, since
> that would make the brown stand out, but I don't know how to negate
> the brown, as it were. My trusty colour wheel doesn't offer help on
> this one, so any advice would be much appreciated.
>
> best wishes
> Stevie
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>
>


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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:36:00 +0100
Status: RO

Thanks for the information!!

            Greetings,
                        Deredere

http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/

>Nope, it's not just you. I've also found that if you put a straight grain
>against a significant angle on a long seam (say, a full-length skirt), you
>can end up with the fabric on the angled side stretching sagging against
>the other side, which does not stretch. Much depends on the flexibility of
>the fabric, of course.
>
>I prefer to match the angles as closely as I can, so the two sides stretch
>to the same degree. Sagging is not a problem if you adjust the hems, and
>it can give you nice shaping and flexibility in some spots -- say, over
>the hips or tush. 
>
>Much has been made of the fact that some of the seams in the Herjolfsnes
>garments are angle-to-grain. My impression, though, is that an observation
>that this was sometimes the case has been extended by later writers into a
>"rule" that somehow improves the flow of the garment. There is, to my
>knowledge, no information published on the actual grainlines of the
>various pieces in these gowns (though Else Ostergard's upcoming book might
>address that). However, if you count the number of edges in the
>Herjolfsnes gored gowns and determine which must be straight and which
>angled, you discover that mathematically some of the seams must have been
>straight-to-angle. Only a formal analysis of all the seams in several of
>the gowns would reveal whether there's any deliberate attempt to maximize
>or minimize the mismatched-grain seams. 
>
>My suspicion is that the makers probably didn't pay much attention to it,
>and put the pieces in where they worked. That's because the angles on the
>Herjolfsnes gored garments are rarely more than about 15 degrees -- only a
>slight slant that would not make much of a difference in stretch. The
>gores on the best-known multi-gore gown (number 38) are only 9 inches wide
>at the base, which allows for only the slightest slant on the hypotenuse.
>The gores of the St. Louis shirt are also quite narrow. I haven't looked
>at other garments with this in mind, but given the use of narrow fabrics
>through much of the Middle Ages, I would suspect this is common. And when
>broadcloth came into use, it was still only about 36 inches wide.
>
>Today, with fabrics ranging from 45 to 60 inches in width, it's tempting
>to cut large gores to make best use of the fabric and minimize the number
>of seams, but the resulting angles on the seams are not going to reflect
>what was done in the period, and the effects may be different.
>
>--Robin
>
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>  
>



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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 13:02:30 -0800 (PST)
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Maryann wrote:

I would like to respectfully disagree with this
statement.  It may be 
true with 
handsewing, but according to my sewing machine dealer,
not with machine 
sewing. 
 They feel that the use of the cheap polyester thread
and even the poly 
core 
thread can cause problems with the machine.  They are
constantly 
warning that 
you cannot use these kinds of thread without causing
problems.>>

I'm curious who your sewing machine dealer is, as I've
never had anyone that works on sewing machines tell me
that. If not poly thread, what are we supposed to use?

Dawn

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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 14:09:57 -0700
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Hey, gang....
This is what I get for relying on my sorry memory, instead of taking the
time to go *find* the darn article.
Turns out, what I was remembering from the article was only partially
correct.  The authors were recommending against the use of filament-silk
thread in lightweight fabrics, as the filament silk is apt to be
stronger than the fabric threads.  They did say that silk is often the
thread of choice for working with wools, but that it can be hard to
find, and hard to use in a sewing machine, because of the slickness.
The article was neutral on the topic of poly-core threads...recognizing
that some don't have problems with it, and some do.  I got the
impression that the authors preferred all-cotton or all-poly threads, or
silk.
What they *did* talk about was the relative "stretchiness" of the
threads--poly being stretchy, and cotton not so.  Linen they didn't talk
about at all, although I'd like to surmise that as a plant-based thread,
its characteristics might be closer to cotton.  The general gist of the
article was to match the stretchy-ness of your fabrics and sewing
threads, otherwise you'll get weird puckers and such.
I can go back and get more details if folks would like.....
--sue
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"This is just as significant as actually finding the fort, we're talking 
about finding one of the Columbus-era type guys."

I don't know how many people are watching the Jamestown dig but this quote 
from William Kelso of the Association for the Preservation of Virginia 
Antiquities struck me as terribly funny. He talking about a singular grave 
that is hoped to contain the remains of  Capt. Bartholomew Gosnold.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/02/11/jamestown.remains.ap/index.html

Many of the graves that date to the "starving time" were not shrouded but 
buried in their garments. I hope they publish on this later after all the 
data is collected.


Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis  
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"This is just as significant as actually finding the fort, we're
talking about finding one of the Columbus-era type guys." 


I don't know how many people are watching the Jamestown dig but this
quote from William Kelso of the Association for the Preservation of
Virginia Antiquities struck me as terribly funny. He talking about a
singular grave that is hoped to contain the remains of  Capt.
Bartholomew Gosnold.


http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/02/11/jamestown.remains.ap/index.html


Many of the graves that date to the "starving time" were not
shrouded but buried in their garments. I hope they publish on this later
after all the data is collected.




Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 


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Subject: [h-cost] Groenwold furs & leather online now
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I got my flyer today-Growewold has a full color online catalog now!

www.gfwco.com

Sg



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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Thread for wool
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Hello,

My sewing machine dealer, and two others that I have dealt with before, all
said to stay away from the cheap poly thread because it leaves behind a lot
more lint than the good quality thread.  They said to stick with Mettler and
Gutterman and to stay away from C&C and the 2 spools for $1 type thread.

I've heard from other people that their machines won't sew with the cheaper
stuff because tension becomes completely messed up.  My machine is okay with
the cheaper thread but I still rarely use the cheaper stuff, habit I guess.
My mother's serger can be a bit sensitive to the cheaper thread and it is
more difficult to keep the tension right.

I also clean my machine a lot and I know some people never clean theirs so
that might be part of the problem.

Avien


> I'm curious who your sewing machine dealer is, as I've
> never had anyone that works on sewing machines tell me
> that. If not poly thread, what are we supposed to use?
>
> Dawn


> Maryann wrote:
>
> I would like to respectfully disagree with this
> statement.  It may be
> true with
> handsewing, but according to my sewing machine dealer,
> not with machine
> sewing.
>  They feel that the use of the cheap polyester thread
> and even the poly
> core
> thread can cause problems with the machine.  They are
> constantly
> warning that
> you cannot use these kinds of thread without causing
> problems.>>
>

>


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thread for wool
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Status: RO

 --- Stevie Gamble  wrote: > Hi all,

> sewing expensive finely woven wool; the only other possibility which
> occurred to me was using wool threads from the woven wool itself. That
> way it would at least get the colour right, but is it suitable for
> sewing with?

Yes it is. I have done it many times whenever possible when making early
Anglo-Saxon peplos gowns, trousers and tunics.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: [h-cost] embroidered cap books
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:25:19 -0600
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"The Embroiderer's Flowers" has the pattern you're thinking of.  Mary
Gostelow's "Blackwork" also has a partially complete cap spread out
flat; it has feathers on it.  I started making it at one point, but
never got further than one feather.

K.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(slaps forhead) I'd forgotten about Gostelow!  I haven't looked through
this book for awhile, time for another read through I guess :).

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions!
Catherine
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Nicole,

Do you get rid of the crinkles from the weaving, and how many threads do you
use - I would expect that unless the material is very coarse, one would not
be enough. Wouldn't be any good with fulled/felted wools either :-(

I recently used some 2-ply English embroidery wool as a decorative
contrasting seam for some Anglo-Danish clothing - worked well, but every
thread had to be pulled tight individually, which did take a lot longer than
thread which can have a couple of stitches before each pull. Looks great
though - I'll put up photos when I take some. I found with this one that I
couldn't use large lengths of thread either because of fraying, which I
assume would also be an issue with using pre-woven threads.

Glenda.


----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thread for wool


> --- Stevie Gamble  wrote: > Hi all,
>
> > sewing expensive finely woven wool; the only other possibility which
> > occurred to me was using wool threads from the woven wool itself. That
> > way it would at least get the colour right, but is it suitable for
> > sewing with?
>
> Yes it is. I have done it many times whenever possible when making early
> Anglo-Saxon peplos gowns, trousers and tunics.
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 18:21:29 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction clocks & watches?
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:21:19 -0700
Status: RO

This is a little OT, but since the watches part is personal adornment, I
figured it was okay.  Does anyone know a purveyor of either appropriate
from 1550-1600?

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 21:39:39 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Robe a la francaise pattern reviews?
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:39:50 -0800
Status: RO

Hi all,

I'm planning to make a robe a la francaise, and since this is my first
attempt at the 18th century, I want to start from a pattern.  I've been
looking around, and I've narrowed it down to two patterns:  the JP Ryan
pattern (http://www.jpryan.com/details/petenlair.htm) or the Mantua Maker
pattern (http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_21.html -- scroll down).

While I've heard great things about both pattern lines (and have used, and
been very happy with, Mantua Maker patterns), I can't seem to find a review
of these specific patterns.  (I've checked the GBACG Great Pattern Review,
FYI -- neither are reviewed).

Has anyone on the list used either of these patterns?  I'd love to hear your
feedback if you have.

Thanks,

Kendra

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 21:41:38 2003
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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
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Subject: [h-cost] 18th c. museum catalog on ebay
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:41:53 -0800
Status: RO

Please pardon the commercial listing:

I recently listed a museum catalog on ebay that might be of interest to
anyone working on the 18th century -- it's an in-depth examination of a c.
1760 "galadress" (combination between the robe a la francaise and anglaise)
from the Municipal Museum of The Hague.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29331&item=3500272421
&rd=1

- Kendra

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 21:55:45 2003
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: MaryAnn Jones 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Thread for wool
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:54:57 -0800
Status: RO

No, they didn't say not poly thread.  they said not the really cheap poly 
thread.  I have to admit, when I use the cheap thread I get a lot more lint 
in my bobbin.  I use both the poly and the cotton with good effect.  I can 
use silk in my machine, but it breaks some.  I used some that kept 
breaking.  I finally looked at the spool and realized that it was at least 
fifty years old.  Oh well, this is one of those first outfits that you are 
embarassed about later and replace as quickly as you can.  maryann

At 01:02 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Maryann wrote:
>
>I would like to respectfully disagree with this
>statement.  It may be
>true with
>handsewing, but according to my sewing machine dealer,
>not with machine
>sewing.
>  They feel that the use of the cheap polyester thread
>and even the poly
>core
>thread can cause problems with the machine.  They are
>constantly
>warning that
>you cannot use these kinds of thread without causing
>problems.>>
>
>I'm curious who your sewing machine dealer is, as I've
>never had anyone that works on sewing machines tell me
>that. If not poly thread, what are we supposed to use?
>
>Dawn
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 21:58:35 2003
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From: Drea Leed 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:59:21 -0500 (EST)
Status: RO

It's definitely yummy...even if a bit earlier than my main time period of
interest.

Thanks,

Drea

On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Gwyn Carnegie wrote:

>
> Great Biblo Drea,
>
> Page 35 has the table. It lists the dyeing prices in 3 categories, On
> Loom, Fulled, and Tentered. But it doesn't go any further back then 1282.
> The article certainly worth looking up, even just for the footnotes >; )
>
> Munro is fairly prolific and you can find his articles all over. I can hit
> the stacks tomorrow afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books and
> see if anything jogs my brain or if I can find the Flemish trade manifests
> I've been promising Drea.
>
> Below are some recent titles that weren't included . The Stabel article
> should be easy to find Childs has a nice body of work out there as well.
>
> Childs, Wendy R. ;  The English export trade in cloth in the fourteenth
> century.
>   Progress and Problems in Medieval England: Essays in Honour of Edward
> Miller. Ed. Richard BRITNELL and John HATCHER. Pp. xvi, 317. Cambridge:
> Cambridge University Press.
> ISSN/ISBN: 0-521-55036-X
>
> Chorley, Patrick ; The Ypres cloth industry 1200-1350: the pattern of
> change in output and demand.
> From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: Archaeological and
> Historical Contributions
>
> Heckett, Elizabeth Wincott ;  Archaeological textiles from 13th/14th
> century Irish towns.
> From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: Archaeological and
> Historical Contributions
>
> Henry, Philippa A. ; Development and change in late Saxon textile
> production: an analysis of the evidence.
> Durham Archaeological Journal: Transactions of the Architectural and
> Archaeological Society of Durham and Northumberland , vol 14-15, 1999, 69-76
>
> Sorber, Frieda ;  The making of cloth: state of the art technology in the
> Middle Ages.
> From: Ypres and the Medieval Cloth Industry in Flanders: Archaeological and
> Historical Contributions
>
> Stabel, Peter ; Marketing cloth in the Low Countries: manufacturers,
> brokers and merchants (14th-16th centuries).
> From: International Trade in the Low Countries (14th-16th Centuries):
> Merchants, Organization, Infrastructure. Proceedings of the International
> Conference, Ghent-Antwerp, 12th-13th January 1997
>
>
> Gwyn Carnegie
> University of California at Davis
>
> At 10:51 PM 2/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
> >Page 35 has the table. It lists the dyeing prices in 3 catagories, On
> >Loom, Fulled, and Tentered. But it doesn't go any further back then 1282.
> >The article certainly worth looking up, even just for the footnotes >; )
> >
> >Munro is fairly prolific and you can find his articles all over. I can hit
> >the stacks tomorrow afternoon since I need to pick up some ILL books and
> >see if anything jogs my brain or if I can find the flemish trade manifests
> >I've been promissing Drea.
> >
> >There are two articles that are sticking in my head but I can't find them
> >in my binders, one is on lead stamps (tax stamps) during this time period
> >and the other by the editor of the Pasold series Carus-Wilson. I think I
> >remember they dealt with earlier textiles then 1282.
> >
> >Anges G article
> >
> >Gwyn
> >
> > > Drea Leed wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sure.  The article was "Textile Technology" by John Munro, in the book
> > > > "Textiles, Towns & Trade: Essays in the Economic History of Late
> >Medieval
> > > > England and the Low Countries (London: Variorum 1994)
> > > >
> > > > Another absolutely fascinating article in the same book is "The
> >Medieval
> > > > Scarlet and the Economics of Sartorial Splendour", also by Munro.  It
> > > > examines the whole issue of scarlet in more detail than I'd ever seen,
> > > > listing all sorts of prices and widths and facts from Flemish trade
> >books.
> > > >
> > > > These two and a whole bunch of other reeeeeally bad-for-the-budget
> > > > articles are in the following bibliography on medieval wool
> > > > production:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/2MEDCLTH1.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Enjoy,
> > > >
> > > > Drea
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Colleen McDonald wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > < >widths of
> > > > > woolen fabric in the 14th century, last night.  The author talked
> >about
> > > > > how the broad loom was in use by the mid-1300s, which could produce
> >fabric
> > > > > about 60 inches wide.  Unfulled, though, so that may not be an
> >accurate
> > > > > measurement for finished, fulled cloth.  Only wool cloth was
> >mentioned; no
> > > > > idea if it also applied to linen, but from what I recall linen
> > > > > traditionally came in narrower widths.>>
> > > > >
> > > > > Drea, can you give us the citation info on this source?  I'll add to
> >my stash of info.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, do you have any sources on linen width?  I've been digging
> >into it for a current project and haven't come up with anything specific.
>

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Subject: [h-cost] thread questions
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:00:11 -0600
Status: RO

1) Can you use silk thread in your machine, or is it for hand sewing only?
2) Someone mentioned using appropriate stitches for the seams; is there
someplace that tells you what sort of stitch is best for where?

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
BRF FOF

A room without books is like a body without a soul
---Cicero

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing guidelines for the Civil War Era (book)
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:08:57 -0500 (EST)
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Might she be, or have been, faculty? She seems to have written several
other books, all on biology. Most colleges archive faculty publications. I
found a Janet Burgess at another university but no CV so I can't tell how
long she has been there.

Beth Chamberlain

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Choosing Colour Combinations (slightly OT)
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:56:36 -0500
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On Tuesday 11 February 2003 03:17 pm, Stevie Gamble wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have a problem with colour combinations; I have some fabric which is
> predominantly grey, with some brown tones. I want to accentuate the
> grey, and play down the brown, but I don't know how to do this. I'm
> pretty sure that I should not put it alongside another grey, since
> that would make the brown stand out, but I don't know how to negate
> the brown, as it were. My trusty colour wheel doesn't offer help on
> this one, so any advice would be much appreciated.

It's hard to say without seeing a fabric sample, Stevie, but I'd try pairing 
the grey with accessories, etc. in a shade of blue that was close to the 
light/darkness level of the grey.  Blue is a cool color and should help wash 
out the warmer brown from the gray.


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 23:16:01 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Dress Diaries community
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 20:16:20 -0800
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Hi all,

I'm not sure how many of you on this list know about www.livejournal.com or 
the idea behind it, but I started a community there for people to post their 
dress diaries to.  It's called (of course) "dressdiaries" and can be found 
at http://www.livejournal.com/community/dressdiaries .  I'm not sure if many 
of the list members have journals already, but if anyone is interested I 
have a few activation codes left also.  Anyway... I'm also looking for dress 
diaries that I could post links to on this community to use as examples for 
future posters. :)  I want the author's permission first though, of course!  
   What I hope to create here is a sort of directory of dress diaries to 
peruse, since I know everyone loves them so much!

thanks!
-Laura
(Ladykalessia on LJ)

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Subject: [h-cost] More Color Talk....
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 23:49:24 -0500
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Another question of what you all would like to see...

I am working on webpages to put my color research online from 1880-1889.  I
have the colors and their usage... I have 36 pages so far from 1880-1883.
Would it be useful to you all to know what color combinations where used
together?  Also I have documentation of color used in plaids, and from
changeable silk... like from brown to red.  Would this be useful information
for you all?  Would you rather see them on separate webpages as a whole...
like a page for plaid and another for the changeable fabric, then another
for color combinations?

I am thrilled!!!!!!  I won a great book on ebay yesterday about colors with
swatches for 1922.  Go look:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20308&item=2807657292
&rd=1

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 11 23:53:34 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction clocks & watches?
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:54:31 +1100
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> This is a little OT, but since the watches part is personal adornment, I
> figured it was okay.  Does anyone know a purveyor of either appropriate
> from 1550-1600?

The Mary Rose trust had one that's not too bad - the mirror may be a little
on the modern side, though.

Glenda


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Color Talk....
From: Agnes Gawne 
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:05:28 -0800
Status: RO

Penny -
Congratulations on the book.

Putting up color combination information would be very helpful.  Whichever
way you do it will be great.

Agnes

> From: "Penny Ladnier" 
> Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 23:49:24 -0500
> To: 
> Subject: [h-cost] More Color Talk....
> 
> Another question of what you all would like to see...
> 
> I am working on webpages to put my color research online from 1880-1889.  I
> have the colors and their usage... I have 36 pages so far from 1880-1883.
> Would it be useful to you all to know what color combinations where used
> together?  Also I have documentation of color used in plaids, and from
> changeable silk... like from brown to red.  Would this be useful information
> for you all?  Would you rather see them on separate webpages as a whole...
> like a page for plaid and another for the changeable fabric, then another
> for color combinations?
> 
> I am thrilled!!!!!!  I won a great book on ebay yesterday about colors with
> swatches for 1922.  Go look:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20308&item=2807657292
> &rd=1
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> 
> 
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
> (http://www.plugit.com)]
> 
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:17:03 -0700
Status: RO

Hi, Penny.
The information sounds absolutely wonderful, and I have no doubt
whatsoever that if I were doing this time period, such information would
be _very_ valuable to me!
As far as format--I'd think that whatever takes the least amount of time
to access would probably work best for the greatest cross-section of
people.  Not all of us have fast internet access, and it can really be a
pain to wait....and wait.....and wait for something graphics-intensive
to come up.
--sue's two euro worth....

Penny Ladnier wrote:
> 
> Another question of what you all would like to see...
> 
> I am working on webpages to put my color research online from 1880-1889.  I
> have the colors and their usage... I have 36 pages so far from 1880-1883.
> Would it be useful to you all to know what color combinations where used
> together?  Also I have documentation of color used in plaids, and from
> changeable silk... like from brown to red.  Would this be useful information
> for you all?  Would you rather see them on separate webpages as a whole...
> like a page for plaid and another for the changeable fabric, then another
> for color combinations?
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:35:46 -0800
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To Penny the indefatigable-

Penny Ladnier wrote:



> Would it be useful to you all to know what color combinations where used
> together?


YES!!!!

  


>Also I have documentation of color used in plaids, and from
> changeable silk... like from brown to red.  Would this be useful information
> for you all? 


JAWOHL!!!

>Would you rather see them on separate webpages as a whole...
> like a page for plaid and another for the changeable fabric, then another
> for color combinations?


OUI OUI OUI!!!


> 
> I am thrilled!!!!!!  I won a great book on ebay yesterday about colors with
> swatches for 1922.  Go look:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20308&item=2807657292
> &rd=1


Congratulations on the score. That one looks very cool!!!

Theresa Eacker


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 00:38:56 2003
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:39:20 -0800 (PST)
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Rebecca wrote:

<<1) Can you use silk thread in your machine, or is it
for hand sewing 
only?
2) Someone mentioned using appropriate stitches for
the seams; is there
someplace that tells you what sort of stitch is best
for where?>>

Hi Rebecca!

1) I can, and I have, but I usually don't because I'm
too cheap/lazy to put some on a bobbin so I can run it
through the sewing machine. It's mostly a hassle
factor; my local Hancock's doesn't carry silk thread
anymore, so I have to make a special trip down to
Berkeley or wait until I need something else and can
stop in at Stone Mtn & Daughter. I usually just use
Gutermann's polyester thread in my sewing machines (I
have 2).

2) I was able to get really good information on
stitches for medieval period clothes from the MoL book
"Clothing & Textiles" by Elizabeth Crowfoot et al.
Pages 150-198 are devoted to sewing and tailoring
techniques, and goes into some depth on the different
types of stitches to use for hose, seams, hems, etc.
I've also gotten a lot of good sewing technique tips
from a reprint of a 1901 tailors' guide, and from a
couple of other older sewing instruction manuals I
have. They all go into great detail on the correct
stitch to do specific things (like using a felling
stitch for hems, and stoating stitches for mending a
tear in a closely-woven wool), but they're pretty
extensive and I don't want to take up bandwidth and
bore people. ;-)

About the best thing that I can suggest is to borrow a
couple of good tailors guides, and read the first
couple of sections in each, as that is usually where
the stitching information is.

Dawn
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 00:50:41 2003
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At 7:57 AM +0000 2/11/03, N Kipar wrote:
>Our eggwarmers were sewn, not knitted, and constructed _just_ like the caps:
>four panels of petal shapes sewn together. I remember that I loved our
>eggwarmers because it was fun to pay with and I borrowed them for dolls I
>think. That was in the 70s but I guess my mum still had them from the 60s.
>They kept indeed the egg warm, there is nothing worse than a soft boiled egg
>that is cold. YUCK!

Why am I suddenly getting this urge to make an egg-warmer that's 
constructed as a miniature embroidered cap ....

(Ok, I'll resist -- but only because I don't eat soft-boiled eggs.)

Heather
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At 10:41 PM -0700 2/10/03, Sue Clemenger wrote:
>Interesting, isn't it, how some of the letters in the word "switched"
>places--there's a specific term for that, but my linguistics classes
>were _way_ too long ago to remember.....Same thing occurs when people
>say "Aks" for "Ask."  I bet it's related to the use of "noo-cue-lar" as
>a pronunciation for "nuclear" (noo-clee-ar).
>English is _so_ weird.  Do other languages do this??
>--sue, rambling and completely OT 

The technical linguistic term for this process is "metathesis" and, 
yes, it happens regularly in lots of languages.  Not a _lot_ (or it 
would really screw up the data for historical linguists), but 
regularly.  "Bird" is another English example, if I remember 
correctly (from an original more like "brid").  It usually happens 
when there have been changes in a the "sound rules" for a language 
(or when a word is borrowed that breaks the sound rules) that have to 
do with what sounds and sound combinations are allowed and what order 
they should come in.

Heather
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 01:22:45 2003
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From: "Karen Root" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress Diaries community
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I'd be interested in it, you mean that I'd post updates on my latest project
etc.. is that what you're looking for?

Was thinking about adding that to my web page but this would be a much
easier way.  Can we include pictures?

Karen
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kala Jathos" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 3:16 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Dress Diaries community


> Hi all,
>
> I'm not sure how many of you on this list know about www.livejournal.com
or
> the idea behind it, but I started a community there for people to post
their
> dress diaries to.  It's called (of course) "dressdiaries" and can be found
> at http://www.livejournal.com/community/dressdiaries .  I'm not sure if
many
> of the list members have journals already, but if anyone is interested I
> have a few activation codes left also.  Anyway... I'm also looking for
dress
> diaries that I could post links to on this community to use as examples
for
> future posters. :)  I want the author's permission first though, of
course!
>    What I hope to create here is a sort of directory of dress diaries to
> peruse, since I know everyone loves them so much!
>
> thanks!
> -Laura
> (Ladykalessia on LJ)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 01:42:48 2003
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There are a couple of people who are currently creating sewing and/or
costuming diaries/blogs, including myself.  Here's what I know about:

- My site is Démodé (http://demode.tweedlebop.com/)
- Heather Meadows -- who is on the list -- runs a site called Sew Hip It
Hurts (http://www.sewhipithurts.com/)
- The Elizabethan Lady (http://www.elizabethanlady.com/)
- Sew Geeky (http://www.sewgeeky.com/)
- Sew Wrong (http://www.sewwrong.com/)

You certainly have my permission to link to my site -- I love reading other
peoples blogs, and I'd be excited if more people used them to update us on
their projects!

- Kendra




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From: annora 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction clocks & watches?
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> > This is a little OT, but since the watches part is personal adornment, I
> > figured it was okay.  Does anyone know a purveyor of either appropriate
> > from 1550-1600?

	I don't know how historically correct this is but there's one at
http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/pocket%20watch.html .  It's supposedly
German, c1580.

--annora


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>Why am I suddenly getting this urge to make an egg-warmer that's 
>constructed as a miniature embroidered cap ....
>
>(Ok, I'll resist -- but only because I don't eat soft-boiled eggs.)
>
>Heather

That's no excuse!!  If you make the "cap" it can be displayed on one of 
those lovely marble eggs.  I personally think those things should only be 
mixed thoroughly into other foods, but I have dressed one.

The family living exercise in high school.  My egg had several changes of 
clothes, a canopy bed, and a "baby carrier" until my boyfriend dropped it.  
I'm so glad the real things (babies)aren't that fragile.



Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!





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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction clocks & watches?
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 --- annora  wrote: > > > This is a little OT, but since
the watches part is personal adornment, I
> > > figured it was okay.  Does anyone know a purveyor of either appropriate
> > > from 1550-1600?
> 
> 	I don't know how historically correct this is but there's one at
> http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/pocket%20watch.html .  It's supposedly
> German, c1580.

He is usually quite good in his research. certainly his cutlery sets are copies
of real ones.

Nicole

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Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress Diaries community
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Karla, is it possible to update the diary from any computer i.e. does it have a
web interface? Ishould think so... the reason I ask is because having my diary
on my site is a pain, I can only work on it at home in the evening and that's
when I usually have _enough_ of computers after a day working with them. I'd be
very interested in a code, I think i would update my diary a lot more if I
could do it whenever I felt like it and from anywhere. I LOVE dress diaries.

Nicole

 --- Kala Jathos  wrote: > Hi all,
> 
> I'm not sure how many of you on this list know about www.livejournal.com or 
> the idea behind it, but I started a community there for people to post their 
> dress diaries to.  It's called (of course) "dressdiaries" and can be found 
> at http://www.livejournal.com/community/dressdiaries .  I'm not sure if many 
> of the list members have journals already, but if anyone is interested I 
> have a few activation codes left also.  Anyway... I'm also looking for dress 
> diaries that I could post links to on this community to use as examples for 
> future posters. :)  I want the author's permission first though, of course!  
>    What I hope to create here is a sort of directory of dress diaries to 
> peruse, since I know everyone loves them so much!
> 
> thanks!
> -Laura
> (Ladykalessia on LJ)
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: silk thread in machine, was Re: [h-cost] thread questions
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 --- lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote: > 1) Can you use silk thread in your
machine, or is it for hand sewing only?

No problems, I have used it often in my machine.

Nicole

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thread for wool
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 --- Glenda Robinson  wrote: > Nicole,
> 
> Do you get rid of the crinkles from the weaving, 

Crinkles? Weaving? Oh, you mean when you are sewing. you don't see those
anymore, no problem.

and how many threads do you
> use - 

One.

I would expect that unless the material is very coarse, one would not
> be enough. 

It has nothing to do with coarse but with quality. We were mainly using the
diamond twill that wa sspecially woven for us in a mill in Yorkshire.

Wouldn't be any good with fulled/felted wools either :-(

That's why I said where possible, of course it isn't possible with the wool you
emntion above, I thought that went without saying.

> I recently used some 2-ply English embroidery wool as a decorative
> contrasting seam for some Anglo-Danish clothing - worked well, but every
> thread had to be pulled tight individually, which did take a lot longer than
> thread which can have a couple of stitches before each pull. 

That's weird, maybe you used the wrong thread, because I have done that and no
problems there. Can't remember which make I sued, senility raises its ugly
head...

Looks great
> though - I'll put up photos when I take some. 

Great, looking forward to that.

I found with this one that I
> couldn't use large lengths of thread either because of fraying, which I
> assume would also be an issue with using pre-woven threads.

Fraying? you mean fraying of the thread? Never encountered that.

Sorry, I don't seem to be that helpful, but I didn't encounter any of the
problems.

Nicole

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Email: nicole@kipar.org

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For whoever was after one

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Mel
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I am making a "Titanic" dress for an event in April.  It is inspired by the
'sinking' dress in the movie and other images/research I have of the time
period.

My current problem is the closure of the back.  I am assuming buttons or
hooks at this stage, but should it be buttons and loops, or concealed
buttons with a placket, or hooks etc.

Any suggestions as to which will be the best option?

Karen
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:46:20 +1300
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> Karla, is it possible to update the diary from any computer i.e. does it
have a
> web interface? Ishould think so... the reason I ask is because having my
diary
> on my site is a pain, I can only work on it at home in the evening and
that's
> when I usually have _enough_ of computers after a day working with them.
I'd be
> very interested in a code, I think i would update my diary a lot more if I
> could do it whenever I felt like it and from anywhere. I LOVE dress
diaries.

There is a portal:
http://www.livejournal.com/portal

Which is the best page to update from, it lets you know birthdays of people
on your freinds list etc.

You do need to be logged on though, so you'd go to the page and login to
actually do anything;)

But it's infinately easier to download a client. It's so much easier to
login and leave it going in the back ground and so you can update again if
you have a sudden flash of insoiration.

Also note, free users will be limited to 5 posts a day for posts to their
own journal and any community. I'm a free user and think this is reasonable,
after all there are no ads or any pop up etc for a free service. Paid users
will have a limit too, but they are setting it so that they won't hit that
unless doing something like running scripts.

my dress diary is http://www.livejournal.com/users/pinkdiamond
But I'm not logged in as that or I'd have joined the community already;) I
have a personal diary there as well. Making it friends only or private
because I found someone doing a search for me from NZ.. not my site *me*..
shudder...

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Edwardian 'Titanic' Dress
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:32:39 -0500
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Karen, I have garments in my collection that use both methods.  If the
fabric is light weight (lace, silk) the usual seems to be small hooks with
thread bars. The waist or other 'strain' area uses metal eyes. Concealment
is always the goal.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Root" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:17 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Edwardian 'Titanic' Dress


> I am making a "Titanic" dress for an event in April.  It is inspired by
the
> 'sinking' dress in the movie and other images/research I have of the time
> period.
>
> My current problem is the closure of the back.  I am assuming buttons or
> hooks at this stage, but should it be buttons and loops, or concealed
> buttons with a placket, or hooks etc.
>
> Any suggestions as to which will be the best option?
>
> Karen
> -----
> www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 12:31:45 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:30:34 -0800
Status: RO

there are local client interfaces for livejournal -- what kind of 
computer do you use?
http://www.livejournal.com/download/


is this community just going to be a list of dress diaries, or updates 
from all
of them? or both?


On Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 12:18 AM, N Kipar wrote:

> Karla, is it possible to update the diary from any computer i.e. does 
> it have a
> web interface? Ishould think so... the reason I ask is because having 
> my diary
> on my site is a pain, I can only work on it at home in the evening and 
> that's
> when I usually have _enough_ of computers after a day working with 
> them. I'd be
> very interested in a code, I think i would update my diary a lot more 
> if I
> could do it whenever I felt like it and from anywhere. I LOVE dress 
> diaries.
>
> Nicole
>
>  --- Kala Jathos  wrote: > Hi all,
>>
>> I'm not sure how many of you on this list know about 
>> www.livejournal.com or
>> the idea behind it, but I started a community there for people to 
>> post their
>> dress diaries to.  It's called (of course) "dressdiaries" and can be 
>> found
>> at http://www.livejournal.com/community/dressdiaries .  I'm not sure 
>> if many
>> of the list members have journals already, but if anyone is 
>> interested I
>> have a few activation codes left also.  Anyway... I'm also looking 
>> for dress
>> diaries that I could post links to on this community to use as 
>> examples for
>> future posters. :)  I want the author's permission first though, of 
>> course!
>>    What I hope to create here is a sort of directory of dress diaries 
>> to
>> peruse, since I know everyone loves them so much!
>>
>> thanks!
>> -Laura
>> (Ladykalessia on LJ)
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
>> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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At 08:45 AM 2/12/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>  --- Glenda Robinson  wrote: > Nicole,
>I found with this one that I
> > couldn't use large lengths of thread either because of fraying, which I
> > assume would also be an issue with using pre-woven threads.
>
>Fraying? you mean fraying of the thread? Never encountered that.
>Sorry, I don't seem to be that helpful, but I didn't encounter any of the
>problems.
>
>Nicole

I often used crewel wool floss for seams and embroidery and you do need to 
be watchful as to how long of a strand you use to avoid fraying and 
thinning. It had to do with the twist on the thread, fiber length, etc. I 
also found that it varied by manufacturer. Cheap crewel thread is often 
just that.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis  
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At 08:45 AM 2/12/2003 +0000, you wrote:


 --- Glenda Robinson
<glendar@compassnet.com.au> wrote: > Nicole,

I found with this one that I

> couldn't use large lengths of thread either because of fraying,
which I

> assume would also be an issue with using pre-woven 
threads.


Fraying? you mean fraying of the thread? Never encountered that.

Sorry, I don't seem to be that helpful, but I didn't encounter any of
the

problems.


Nicole


I often used crewel wool floss for seams and embroidery and you do need
to be watchful as to how long of a strand you use to avoid fraying and
thinning. It had to do with the twist on the thread, fiber length, etc. I
also found that it varied by manufacturer. Cheap crewel thread is often
just that.


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 13:22:15 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Nice Reproduction Italian Renaissance Gown on eBay
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Hi,

This one looks really nice.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2910265669&category=19255&tc=photo

Greetings,
        Deredere


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 15:08:08 2003
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Wow! That is really nice! It's so good to see something well-done on
E-bay after all the clinkers we usually get to comment on.


Karen

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:18:12 -0500
Status: RO

Karen,

You might want to contact Jennie Chancey at jenniec@sensibility.com .  She
has a pattern for the costume.  If she doesn't contact you immediately, she
has a family emergency earlier in the week.  Maybe some of her former
students might be on the list who have made the dress.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 15:20:56 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References:  <002201c2d262$149062f0$befc8218@hopperflop2>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress Diaries community
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Hello.
I would not mind if you linked to my dress diary either, but i dont update
it very much, only when i have new things to show.
Soon there will be a new dressdiary about my embroidered suit, because it
soon is finished. This is the longest projekt i ever made (4 years)
My dressdiary is on the first link below.
Bjarne
Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress Diaries community


> There are a couple of people who are currently creating sewing and/or
> costuming diaries/blogs, including myself.  Here's what I know about:
>
> - My site is Démodé (http://demode.tweedlebop.com/)
> - Heather Meadows -- who is on the list -- runs a site called Sew Hip It
> Hurts (http://www.sewhipithurts.com/)
> - The Elizabethan Lady (http://www.elizabethanlady.com/)
> - Sew Geeky (http://www.sewgeeky.com/)
> - Sew Wrong (http://www.sewwrong.com/)
>
> You certainly have my permission to link to my site -- I love reading
other
> peoples blogs, and I'd be excited if more people used them to update us on
> their projects!
>
> - Kendra
>
>
>
>
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Subject: [h-cost] Isn't she lovely
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2158182976&category=10167

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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References: <3E4A9101.4000609@kabelfoon.nl>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nice Reproduction Italian Renaissance Gown on eBay
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Deredere wrote:

> This one looks really nice.
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2910265669&category
=19255&tc=photo

Yes, it is, but I don't think it's quite up to your own standard:-)

best wishes
Stevie

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Isn't she lovely
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She's pretty good looking for a murderess.

Agnes

> From: "Penny Ladnier" 
> Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com
> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:33:11 -0500
> To: "h-costume" 
> Subject: [h-cost] Isn't she lovely
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2158182976&category=10167
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> 
> 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume digest, Vol 1 #1814 - 9 msgs
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:47:21 -0800
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I would love to get updates *and* links to new ones, so C: Both!  I imagine 
that not everyone out there will want to start a livejournal specifically so 
they can write dress diary stuff, which is why I'm also soliciting links 
from established diaries. :)  It would be a big hassle to try and put them 
all into Livejournal if they're already set up somewhere else!

-Laura


>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:30:34 -0800
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress Diaries community
>From: Heather Meadows 
>To: h-costume@indra.com
>Reply-To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
>
>there are local client interfaces for livejournal -- what kind of
>computer do you use?
>http://www.livejournal.com/download/
>
>
>is this community just going to be a list of dress diaries, or updates
>from all
>of them? or both?
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 12:18 AM, N Kipar wrote:
>
> > Karla, is it possible to update the diary from any computer i.e. does
> > it have a
> > web interface? Ishould think so... the reason I ask is because having
> > my diary
> > on my site is a pain, I can only work on it at home in the evening and
> > that's
> > when I usually have _enough_ of computers after a day working with
> > them. I'd be
> > very interested in a code, I think i would update my diary a lot more
> > if I
> > could do it whenever I felt like it and from anywhere. I LOVE dress
> > diaries.
> >
> > Nicole
> >
> >  --- Kala Jathos  wrote: > Hi all,
> >>
> >> I'm not sure how many of you on this list know about
> >> www.livejournal.com or
> >> the idea behind it, but I started a community there for people to
> >> post their
> >> dress diaries to.  It's called (of course) "dressdiaries" and can be
> >> found
> >> at http://www.livejournal.com/community/dressdiaries .  I'm not sure
> >> if many
> >> of the list members have journals already, but if anyone is
> >> interested I
> >> have a few activation codes left also.  Anyway... I'm also looking
> >> for dress
> >> diaries that I could post links to on this community to use as
> >> examples for
> >> future posters. :)  I want the author's permission first though, of
> >> course!
> >>    What I hope to create here is a sort of directory of dress diaries
> >> to
> >> peruse, since I know everyone loves them so much!
> >>
> >> thanks!
> >> -Laura
> >> (Ladykalessia on LJ)
> >
> > =====
> > Nicole Kipar M.A.
> > URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> > Email: nicole@kipar.org
> >

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 15:55:26 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] danish 1790 dress
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:54:51 +0100
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Hello.
I am sorry to bather you with this, but i would be very glad if the person
from h-costume, whom i made patterntranslations for ( a danish dress from
1790ies)
would contakt me?
My memory is not what it used to be, i dont recall who it was i helped with
translating the pattern details.
Anyway i would be very glad if you would contakt me off list.
Many thanks

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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You are welcome to link to my current dress diary. Just go to:


http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/

and look for "To Dress A Queen". 

By the way, for any of you who have been following along, I sent the last
installment of the diary to my webmaster today, so I will be announcing
the update in the next day or so! Stay tuned!


Karen

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To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Color Talk....
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:30:41 -0800
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Penny,

Your color work has always been my absolute FAVORITE thing you do. Being a
graphic artist as well as theatre artist, the use of color in all it's
subtleties, as well as the various names (reference the thread on "grenat,
grenadine, garnet, etc.") with which we articulate it's uses, is a subject
of endless fascination.

Bless you for taking it on!

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"I have no other but a woman's reason:
I think him so, because I think him so."
Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare




----- Original Message -----
From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 8:49 PM
Subject: [h-cost] More Color Talk....


> Another question of what you all would like to see...
>
> I am working on webpages to put my color research online from 1880-1889.
I
> have the colors and their usage... I have 36 pages so far from 1880-1883.
> Would it be useful to you all to know what color combinations where used
> together?  Also I have documentation of color used in plaids, and from
> changeable silk... like from brown to red.  Would this be useful
information
> for you all?  Would you rather see them on separate webpages as a whole...
> like a page for plaid and another for the changeable fabric, then another
> for color combinations?
>
> I am thrilled!!!!!!  I won a great book on ebay yesterday about colors
with
> swatches for 1922.  Go look:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20308&item=2807657292
> &rd=1
>
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 16:51:42 2003
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Gwyn Carnegie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Edwardian 'Titanic' Dress
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You see closures start at CF or CB for the bodice, go across a quarter of 
the waist along the internal waist belt, then down the side of the skirt. 
Both hooks and eyes and snaps are perfectly period. One dress I looked at 
recently used hooks and worked eyelet holes in a placket tape, very nifty 
and remarkably sturdy.

At 10:17 PM 2/12/2003 +1100, you wrote:
>I am making a "Titanic" dress for an event in April.  It is inspired by the
>'sinking' dress in the movie and other images/research I have of the time
>period.
>
>My current problem is the closure of the back.  I am assuming buttons or
>hooks at this stage, but should it be buttons and loops, or concealed
>buttons with a placket, or hooks etc.
>
>Any suggestions as to which will be the best option?
>
>Karen

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis









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You see closures start at CF or CB for the bodice, go across a quarter of
the waist along the internal waist belt, then down the side of the skirt.
Both hooks and eyes and snaps are perfectly period. One dress I looked at
recently used hooks and worked eyelet holes in a placket tape, very nifty
and remarkably sturdy. 


At 10:17 PM 2/12/2003 +1100, you wrote:


I am making a "Titanic"
dress for an event in April.  It is inspired by the

'sinking' dress in the movie and other images/research I have of the
time

period.


My current problem is the closure of the back.  I am assuming
buttons or

hooks at this stage, but should it be buttons and loops, or
concealed

buttons with a placket, or hooks etc.


Any suggestions as to which will be the best option?


Karen


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 
















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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 17:19:15 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Tudor dress hooks
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> This was posted on the SCA-Aethelmearc list yesterday and I thought some
> people here would be interested.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:47 PM
> Subject: [SCA-AE] Mord Strikes Again
>
>
> > Mord found me an article yesterday from the 2002 'Antiquaries Journal'
> (volume 82, Society of Antiquaries of London, Burlington House,
Piccadilly,
> London). We thought that any number of you might be interested. : )
> >
> > The title is "Tudor Silver-Gilt Dress-Hooks: A New Class of Treasure
Find
> in England", by David Gaimster FSA, Maria Hayward, David Mitchell and
Karen
> Parker. It's a very thorough article on the use of dress hooks in Tudor
> England, with detailed analysis of structure of existing hooks (photos of
> extant pieces, diagrams and measurements, some discussion of manufacture
> techniques), as well as pictorial (including a number of
drawings/paintings
> by Holbein the Younger) and literary evidence (clothing inventories for
> Henry VIII and his various wives, for example, as well as other probate
> lists and wills, and costs for importing hooks, etc.) for how they were
> worn, both as fasteners and as decoration. It's pretty killer, actually.
> >
> > Mairi
> > -
> >
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 12 17:36:10 2003
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Thanks for the lead on a very interesting article!  That goes in the
"saved" file!

Sg


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  I'm not sure if many
> > of the list members have journals already, but if anyone is interested I
> > have a few activation codes left also.

OK, I have looked at what's there so far and need to get one of those 
activation codes if you have any left.

Thanks bunches

Jen

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What I like about Kendra's site is that it has a comment function, much=20
like Livejournal. Unfortunately, the one she uses isn't taking new members.

I started a project site but currently I have to do all my updates from=20
home.  I'm hoping there is a way to have a your main livejournal page open=
=20
in an existing frame. If so, it would love to use it since it would allow=20
me to do journal updates on my site remotely. I want to sew when I get=20
home, not code >; (

At 10:43 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>There are a couple of people who are currently creating sewing and/or
>costuming diaries/blogs, including myself.  Here's what I know about:
>- My site is D=E9mod=E9 (http://demode.tweedlebop.com/)
>
>You certainly have my permission to link to my site -- I love reading other
>peoples blogs, and I'd be excited if more people used them to update us on
>their projects!
>- Kendra

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis







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What I like about Kendra's site is that it has a comment function, much
like Livejournal. Unfortunately, the one she uses isn't taking new
members.


I started a project site but currently I have to do all my updates from
home.  I'm hoping there is a way to have a your main livejournal
page open in an existing frame. If so, it would love to use it since it
would allow me to do journal updates on my site remotely. I want to sew
when I get home, not code >; (


At 10:43 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:


There are a couple of people who
are currently creating sewing and/or

costuming diaries/blogs, including myself.  Here's what I know
about:

- My site is D=E9mod=E9
(http://demode.tweedlebop.com/)

<snip>

You certainly have my permission to link to my site -- I love reading
other

peoples blogs, and I'd be excited if more people used them to update us
on

their projects!

- Kendra


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 













--=====================_30747625==.ALT--

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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
Subject: [h-cost] blackwork ruffled cuffs
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:58:55 -0800
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>   I have scanned a photo of the cuff
> > of the particular shirt I am querying and it is found on
> > http://www.threadneedlest.com/blackworkshirt.htm .   What it
> > looks like is that there are gathers or even pleats right up to that
> > narrow band and immediately below.  As there is so much fabric, it seems
> > unlikely that it could have been sewn into a seperate band, although I
am
> > sure eventally that method was eventually adopted.  My biggest question
> now
> > is, is there a side placket so to speak, even a simple one such as the
> main
> > seam not sown all the way to the end of the rectange, but perhaps
stopping
> > above the narrow band.  I would really like to see the way these cuffs
> > fasten as paintings usually don't show this side.
>
> Lisa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Laning" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 6:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] blackwork ruffled cuffs
>
>
> > At 5:40 PM -0800 2/9/03, Lisa Sinervo wrote:
> > >I have a questions for those of you who have had the great fortune
> > >to look at extant 16th century blackworked shirts.  The sleeves.  In
> > >a blackworked shirt such as found on
> >
>
>http://home.earthlink
> .net/~magdlena/shirt/shirt.html my
> > >assumption is that the sleeve is made of a rectangle and ruffled
> > >edge is part of the same.  It appears to me that it had been
> > >cartridge pleated about 2 1/5 inches up and a flat embroidered band
> > >has been stitched over the pleating.  Is this correct?  Would there
> > >then be a tie on each end of the flat band?  I would also assume
> > >that the ruffle is no longer in a complete circle.  There is a close
> > >up of such a sleeve in The Tudor Housewife, page 42.  I have had a
> > >look at the costume of bath's pattern, but it appears to be a shirt
> > >that ends only with the band and I am interested in shirts with
> > >ruffled sleeves.  Would the same apply to neck ruffles and
> > >embroidered bands.
> >
> > Gosh, Lisa, you should have come to St. George last Saturday after
> > all!  Shelley (our costume director) talked for more than an
> > hour about ruffs and ruffles.
> >
> > To make a long story short, yes, when shirts with neck and wrist
> > ruffles started out in Henry VIII's day, the ruffling that you see is
> > just the edge of the body of the garment (or the sleeve width) which
> > has been gathered.
> >
> > Before too long, though, people wanted more or different ruffles than
> > this would provide, and the ruffle became a separate strip of cloth,
> > gathered or pleated and inserted into a seam at the wrist or neck
> > edge of a straight collar or cuff. (This means the collar and cuff
> > now had to be cut in two pieces and seamed, rather than one piece
> > folded.)
> >
> > Still later, the ruffles became "ruffs," i.e. separate items gathered
> > or pleated onto a plain band. These could either be basted to the
> > shirt neck (and the same for wrist ruffs, which were if anything even
> > more common) or could be put on just over the shirt (or smock, for
> > women) as separate accessories.
> >
> > If you'd like dates or more details, I'll be happy to ask, or to put
> > you in touch with Shelley, who is a veritable walking encyclopedia...
> > 
> > --
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > O  Christian Ashley, gentlewoman to Lady Stafford
> > |     Chris Laning  
> > +   Guild of St. George, Northern California
> > ____________________________________________________________
>


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>I started a project site but currently I have to do all my updates from
>home.  I'm hoping there is a way to have a your main livejournal page open
>in an existing frame. If so, it would love to use it since it would allow
>me to do journal updates on my site remotely. I want to sew when I get
>home, not code >; (

I know you can have your livejournal page open in a frame on your current
web page.  Not exactly sure of the code but I think instead of linking to a
file that you upload, you just link to the web address of your livejournal
'recent' page.

K
-----
www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/

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for all of you Victorian wogs... I just got my copy of Joann Peterson's 
video on How to fit and construct a Victorian corset.  It is really pretty 
good in my opinion.  If you have a chance to see it, I am the really fat 
model who is too big for the pattern and my daughter is the really skinny 
beautiful one.  maryann

she has laughing moon patterns

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Hi, Gwyn. I have met "Wild Bill" Kelso. It seems a shame that he feels
that he has to "talk down" to the public, but, like Ivor Hume was for
Martin's Hundred, is the de-facto spokesman for the James Fort dig.
Regarding clothing finds, there is no textile evidence remaining that I
know of in any of the Virginia sites (Jamestown, Martin's, Flowerdew,
etc.) although there are plenty of smaller evidencial items (buttons,
buckles, pins, a hairdressing item from Martin's, etc.). I will ask for
some info when I speak to my associates down there. They are currently
off-line, due to the loss of their computer in a flood. Ron C., you are
down there, do you see Terry Bond at all around town? I missed Wicklow
(darned work!).  Cheers, Mike T.



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> I know you can have your livejournal page open in a frame on your current
> web page.  Not exactly sure of the code but I think instead of linking to
a
> file that you upload, you just link to the web address of your livejournal
> 'recent' page.

Yep, it's exactly how I have mine. Instead of usign a relative link (file
name only) you use the full url.

Can see what I mean at my site:
http://recital.tripod.com/costume

To update my diary I just open my lj client (and boy has there been some
controversy over some of the clients...) login and update. No need to code
at all. It's a bit like a message board in that respect. It automatically
formats everything for you.

michaela


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Hi all,

I came across this on Ebay;

'Antique Four Piece c. 1830's Colorful Silk Wedding Gown With ID Of
18th Century Fabric'

there are a lot of pictures but I think its worth waiting for them...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20297&item=2809
687600

best wishes
Stevie



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Subject: Re: [h-cost]  18th Century Fabric used for 1830's Silk Wedding Gown
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:19:14 -0800
Status: RO

ooo, pretty!

I would actually date this more to the 1840's, given the long pointed waist
in front and the relatively narrow sleeves -- what do you all think?

- Kendra

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Subject: [h-cost] Re: threads and machines
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I, too, have had a dealer tell me not to use cheap thread. And by cheap
thread, I mean the thread that I always used to use, not the REALLY cheap
stuff. The brand (I don't know if you overseas folks get it) is Dual Duty,
and it worked/s fine on my Bernina. But when I bought a Viking, I had to
take it back to the dealer after just a month because it snarled all the
time. The dealer (a local one, not a chain) looked at it and rethreaded it
with Gutterman thread, and it worked fine. He told me that only Gutterman
and similar threads would work well. He could possibly have set the machine
strangely (his shop does sell Gutterman thread) but repeated experiments
have shown that Dual Duty always messes up the machine, and Gutterman
doesn't.

Gail Finke
Cincinnati

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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: [h-cost] 17th century threads for lace
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:40:09 +0100
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Hello.
I got my magazine from the danish textile history society today. This months
bargain is a book about the history of thread, english.
The new thing is that the linen threads they used for lace, in the 16oo
years, could have a mix of cotton and tow!!!
So lace was not nescesarly only made of flax, but could have a mix.
It is an english conservator and textile researcher named Philip A Sykas who
found that out.
It will be very interresting to read about the development of sewingthread
trough the 1600 years, both linen, silk and cotton.
The society's annual general meeting is taken place at a Castle in Jutland
called Gammel Estrup. It will be my first visit there, always hunting
portraits, i will bring my camera!

Bjarne
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 13 15:03:22 2003
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century threads for lace
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Bjarne wrote:

> I got my magazine from the danish textile history society today.
This months
> bargain is a book about the history of thread, english.
> The new thing is that the linen threads they used for lace, in the
16oo
> years, could have a mix of cotton and tow!!!
> So lace was not nescesarly only made of flax, but could have a mix.
> It is an english conservator and textile researcher named Philip A
Sykas who
> found that out.
> It will be very interresting to read about the development of
sewingthread
> trough the 1600 years, both linen, silk and cotton.

Indeed; it sounds fascinating! Could you please let us have details of
the title and publisher, if possible? Googling isn't pulling up
anything I can take to the libary at the moment...

> The society's annual general meeting is taken place at a Castle in
Jutland
> called Gammel Estrup. It will be my first visit there, always
hunting
> portraits, i will bring my camera!

And put the pictures up as well, please:-)

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 13 15:37:12 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century threads for lace
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:37:32 +0100
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Dear Stevie.
Well it is a little problematic, because the title i have is a translation
to danish.
But the danish title could be translated to something like:
The thread in the eye
Philip A Sykas 44 pages with illustrations in black and white, the isbn nr.
is 87 - 989296 - 0 -7
For once, it is in my own native language - very nice!

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century threads for lace


> Bjarne wrote:
>
> > I got my magazine from the danish textile history society today.
> This months
> > bargain is a book about the history of thread, english.
> > The new thing is that the linen threads they used for lace, in the
> 16oo
> > years, could have a mix of cotton and tow!!!
> > So lace was not nescesarly only made of flax, but could have a mix.
> > It is an english conservator and textile researcher named Philip A
> Sykas who
> > found that out.
> > It will be very interresting to read about the development of
> sewingthread
> > trough the 1600 years, both linen, silk and cotton.
>
> Indeed; it sounds fascinating! Could you please let us have details of
> the title and publisher, if possible? Googling isn't pulling up
> anything I can take to the libary at the moment...
>
> > The society's annual general meeting is taken place at a Castle in
> Jutland
> > called Gammel Estrup. It will be my first visit there, always
> hunting
> > portraits, i will bring my camera!
>
> And put the pictures up as well, please:-)
>
> best wishes
> Stevie
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 13 16:26:54 2003
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From: Tasha McGann 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: thread to use with wool
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:57:45 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

Sue wrote:
> They did say that
> silk is often the
> thread of choice for working with wools, but that it
> can be hard to
> find, and hard to use in a sewing machine, because
> of the slickness.

I can't speak to its use in a machine, but I *love* Au
Ver a Soie's 100/3 couching thread (silk). It comes in
a myriad of colors. I've used it to hand-sew wool
garments and it worked wonderfully. You can mail-order
it from Fireside Stitchery in Exton, PA, USA, for
instance:

http://www.firesidestitchery.com/FIRESIDE/threads/index.cfm

Incidentally, I remember seeing references in _Fashion
in the Age of the Black Prince_ to wardrobe accounts
listing how much silk-versus-linen thread was used
when sewing royal outfits. The upshot according to Ms.
Newton was that unseen-seams were often sewn in linen
while seen-seams and finishing of seams was done in
silk for the prettier/more lustrous effect. 

If you really want to use linen, here are some tips:
use short lengths to avoid fraying and the inevitable
sudden break, or wax your lengths, preferably with a
hot iron run over the waxed thread. This was
recommended to me during a class by a man who
hand-tailors Elizabethan clothing. He believes in
preparing your threads (waxed and heated) in advance
and then you don't have to stop your momentum too
often to wax and heat each thread. 

-Tasha

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:52:28 -0700
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Just thought I'd let all you folks 'stuck' at home away from War that it
is absolutely MISERABLE out there!!  It has been rainin' cats and dogs
all night and today.  I just taught my class and bagged it home to where
it was warm and dry!

Sg


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 13 18:56:52 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:03:04 -0600
Status: RO

Ewww...my poor sweetie is out there all alone...did it rain yesterday too?

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 5:52 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Estrella Woes-OT


Just thought I'd let all you folks 'stuck' at home away from War that it
is absolutely MISERABLE out there!!  It has been rainin' cats and dogs
all night and today.  I just taught my class and bagged it home to where
it was warm and dry!

Sg


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 13 19:16:47 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Puff & Slash Sleeve class handout
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:17:35 -0700
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Hi folks, I taught my P&S sleeve class today at Estrella.  I thought
some of you might be interested.  You can download it from:

http://www.saragrace.net/Upload_Files/PS_2003.pdf


WARNING:  BAF  (Big Assed File)  It is a little over two Meg. I am
working on getting it down to a reasonable size, but it is graphic
intensive and does not zip well.  

Feel free to distribute to those you love

I would love to have your constructive feedback/criticism.  


Sg


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:38 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century threads for lace

Dear Stevie.
Well it is a little problematic, because the title i have is a
translation
to danish.
But the danish title could be translated to something like:
The thread in the eye
Philip A Sykas 44 pages with illustrations in black and white, the isbn
nr.
is 87 - 989296 - 0 -7
For once, it is in my own native language - very nice!

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century threads for lace


> Bjarne wrote:
>
> > I got my magazine from the danish textile history society today.
> This months
> > bargain is a book about the history of thread, english.
> > The new thing is that the linen threads they used for lace, in the
> 16oo
> > years, could have a mix of cotton and tow!!!
> > So lace was not nescesarly only made of flax, but could have a mix.
> > It is an english conservator and textile researcher named Philip A
> Sykas who
> > found that out.
> > It will be very interresting to read about the development of
> sewingthread
> > trough the 1600 years, both linen, silk and cotton.
>
> Indeed; it sounds fascinating! Could you please let us have details of
> the title and publisher, if possible? Googling isn't pulling up
> anything I can take to the libary at the moment...
>
> > The society's annual general meeting is taken place at a Castle in
> Jutland
> > called Gammel Estrup. It will be my first visit there, always
> hunting
> > portraits, i will bring my camera!
>
> And put the pictures up as well, please:-)
>
> best wishes
> Stevie
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 13 19:19:53 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Estrella Woes-OT
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:20:32 -0700
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Last night is when it really started-rained all night.  Sorry for your
sweetie.

Sg


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Talia
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 5:03 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Estrella Woes-OT

Ewww...my poor sweetie is out there all alone...did it rain yesterday
too?

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 5:52 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Estrella Woes-OT


Just thought I'd let all you folks 'stuck' at home away from War that it
is absolutely MISERABLE out there!!  It has been rainin' cats and dogs
all night and today.  I just taught my class and bagged it home to where
it was warm and dry!

Sg


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 13 19:27:45 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reproduction clocks & watches?
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> This is a little OT, but since the watches part is personal adornment, I
> figured it was okay.  Does anyone know a purveyor of either appropriate
> from 1550-1600?

http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/ has one.  I've been lusting after it
for a while.

K.
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 13 20:32:54 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost]  18th Century Fabric used for 1830's Silk Wedding Gown
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On Thursday 13 February 2003 11:19 am, Kendra Van Cleave wrote:
[text cut here] 
> I would actually date this more to the 1840's, given the long pointed waist
> in front and the relatively narrow sleeves -- what do you all think?

I agree with you, Kendra.  Not only are the sleeves narrow, but the shape is 
one I've only seen on gowns and pictures of gowns from the early to 
mid-1840's.  The sleeve is a two-piece sleeve, with the pieces connected at 
mid-bicep with a seam covered in a self-ruffle.

Any other opinions?

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: threads and machines
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 23:30:37 -0500
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On Thursday 13 February 2003 01:52 pm, Gail & Scott Finke wrote:
> I, too, have had a dealer tell me not to use cheap thread. And by cheap
> thread, I mean the thread that I always used to use, not the REALLY cheap
> stuff. The brand (I don't know if you overseas folks get it) is Dual Duty,
> and it worked/s fine on my Bernina. But when I bought a Viking, I had to
> take it back to the dealer after just a month because it snarled all the
> time. The dealer (a local one, not a chain) looked at it and rethreaded it
> with Gutterman thread, and it worked fine. 

That's interesting.  I have used Dual Duty and Gutterman, and although I 
usually don't have problems (especially when I remember to clean the machine) 
I am likelier to have them when the Gutterman than with the Dual Duty. 

Of course, I only have a crappy Kenmore (a brand associated with the Sears, 
Roebuck department store chain here in the US, in case the European and 
Australian list members were wondering) sewing machine, not a Viking.  

>He told me that only Gutterman
> and similar threads would work well. He could possibly have set the machine
> strangely (his shop does sell Gutterman thread) but repeated experiments
> have shown that Dual Duty always messes up the machine, and Gutterman
> doesn't.


I'd always assumed I did better with the Dual Duty because it's a slightly 
thicker thread than Gutterman.  Maybe Vikings are set up to work better with 
thinner thread?


Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 03:22:07 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Estrella Woes-OT
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:22:16 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Saragrace Knauf  wrote: > Just thought I'd let
all you folks 'stuck' at home away from War that it
> is absolutely MISERABLE out there!!  It has been rainin' cats and dogs
> all night and today.  I just taught my class and bagged it home to where
> it was warm and dry!
> 
> Sg

My goodness Saragrace, I can SO sympathise. There has not been a SINGLE living
history event with my group where it didn't rain!!! I hate it. hate it. hate
it. and am sick and tired of re-enactment, mainly because of that. Where's the
point in being miserable, cold and wet? *sigh* Hope the weather gets better.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 04:01:45 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] blackwork ruffled cuffs
To: h-costume@indra.com
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I apologise if this question has already been answered but I have examined a number of original
Elizabethan shifts and read curators notes on some more.  The cuff design down looks to me like
what is known as a falling band.  A piece of linen is darted into a smaller straight piece of
fabric that forms the cuff.  I have never seen a shift where the cuff is constructed (or the
ruffle) out of the sleeve.

Does that answer your question?

Rachel

=====
Rachel

Tudor Bibliography
http://website.lineone.net/~reholliday/Tudor/

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	Gown
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What's a "perline" ? Is it the little cape thingy?

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 04:40:49 2003
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I'm lusting after a LOT of stuff on that site! The garnet pendant is simply
gorgeous.

Dianne

> http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/ has one.  I've been lusting after it
> for a while.
>
> K.
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 04:52:41 2003
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I tried to look them up when I was in Shropshire last summer, but being in such an isolated spot they don't open to the public.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> goofy1@suscom.net 02/14/03 09:38am >>>
I'm lusting after a LOT of stuff on that site! The garnet pendant is simply
gorgeous.

Dianne

> http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/ has one.  I've been lusting after it
> for a while.
>
> K.
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 05:30:43 2003
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 --- Dianne and Greg Stucki  wrote: > I'm lusting after a
LOT of stuff on that site! The garnet pendant is simply
> gorgeous.
> 
> Dianne

I have the garnet one. It is lovely, but it's a shame he uses pewter, because
eventually the pendant blackens more and more and there is nothing you can do
about that. I wear it on a satin choker with my mundane clothing ;-)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Hi. 
I just want to cheer you all up a bit. 
Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my embroidered suit.
Cuffs and pocketflaps.
Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
Bjarne
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

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Fantastic! I wish I could embroider half as well as that.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 02/14/03 12:57pm >>>
Hi. 
I just want to cheer you all up a bit. 
Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my embroidered suit.
Cuffs and pocketflaps.
Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm 
Bjarne
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk 

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ 


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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:34:46 -0600
Status: RO

Well, I've been cold and wet,
and I've been hot and sweaty in temps over 100(F)
and it really makes me feel authentic,
and boy do I ever appreciate my comforts when I get home again!
Betsy (just my .02 lira)




 --- Saragrace Knauf  wrote: > Just thought I'd let
all you folks 'stuck' at home away from War that it
> is absolutely MISERABLE out there!!  It has been rainin' cats and dogs
> all night and today.  I just taught my class and bagged it home to where
> it was warm and dry!
>
> Sg

My goodness Saragrace, I can SO sympathise. There has not been a SINGLE
living
history event with my group where it didn't rain!!! I hate it. hate it. hate
it. and am sick and tired of re-enactment, mainly because of that. Where's
the
point in being miserable, cold and wet? *sigh* Hope the weather gets better.

Nicole

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Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 08:56:49 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] threads and machines
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:57:52 -0600
Status: RO



Cathy wrote:
>I'd always assumed I did better with the Dual Duty because it's a
slightly 
>thicker thread than Gutterman.  Maybe Vikings are set up to work better
with 
>thinner thread?

When I was a dealer (a few years ago), the technician always set the
machines to work with size 50 thread, which would be Gutterman and
Metrosene polyester.

If you have a technician who knows the machine, I think you could tell
him/her what you usually use, and get it set for that.

Kim

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 09:11:46 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:13:15 -0700
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Ooooh....*this* suit! You've been working on it for a long time now,
haven't you?
Bjarne, it's bee-yoootiful.  And Bath is such a beautiful city....you'll
look wonderful at the ball!
What kind of silk are you using for the embroidery?
--sue

Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> I just want to cheer you all up a bit.
> Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my embroidered suit.
> Cuffs and pocketflaps.
> Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> Bjarne
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 09:22:47 2003
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
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Thanks, what a wonderful diversion for us from the morning news!  Works of
beauty are indeed cheerful in these times!  That needle you are using looks
bronze and about 400 years old.  Also, and perhaps this is a dead give away
about my embroidery experience, but why is the thread looped around the
needle hole like that?  It looks like it would be very hard to push through
the fabric.

What an inspiration.  There is nothing to compare to fine hand work!  Thanks
for taking the time to post the photos and let us know.

Cheers,

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 4:57 AM
Subject: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times


> Hi.
> I just want to cheer you all up a bit.
> Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my embroidered suit.
> Cuffs and pocketflaps.
> Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> Bjarne
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Hi. 
> I just want to cheer you all up a bit. 
> Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my embroidered suit.
> Cuffs and pocketflaps.
> Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> Bjarne
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk

GORGEOUS as ever! I showed it to my colleagues, they all loved it. :-)

Nicole

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Wow, it looks so cool!  As usual!  Thanks for the treat!

Sg



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Oh Bjarne! Those cuffs and buttons are fantastic! The coat is going to be
mind-blowing when you get it done. Keep posting progress pictures so we
can get used to your work so we don't all explode when we see the
finihsed product.  ;-)



Karen

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:31:13 +0100
Status: RO

Hi Lisa.
Well it is just an ordinary needle i use, i dont think it is more than 2
years old :-)
When i use silk floss i dont want any loose thread ends because it very easy
tangleds into everything. Even my fingers gets tangled with this tread, it
sticks to it all the time.
Therefore i make a doubble thread with a knot on the two ends. Then i make a
loop trough the needle and puts the needle trough this loop. This way the
thread always keeps the same distance to the embroidery. And this silk
thread i use is very fine, it is 4 times thinner than an ordinary sewing
thread, so the loop dont get catched in the fabric.
I calculated today about my expenses to this suit.
The taffeta costed me 1320.00 kr, it was the cheapest.
Then i have interlined the whole suit with a soft calico, it worked very
well, because the taffeta i have used for this is only suited for shirts.
Then all the embroidery silk floss, gilted metal threads and gilted spangels
costed me about 4000.00 kr. So in all it has costed me about 760 dollars.
Not cheap, but hey! it kept me buisy for almost 4 years ;.)


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times


> Thanks, what a wonderful diversion for us from the morning news!  Works of
> beauty are indeed cheerful in these times!  That needle you are using
looks
> bronze and about 400 years old.  Also, and perhaps this is a dead give
away
> about my embroidery experience, but why is the thread looped around the
> needle hole like that?  It looks like it would be very hard to push
through
> the fabric.
>
> What an inspiration.  There is nothing to compare to fine hand work!
Thanks
> for taking the time to post the photos and let us know.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lisa



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 10:31:52 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:33:32 +0100
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Cheee!
Thanks this was very very nicely said, and funny two!

I shall !

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times


> Oh Bjarne! Those cuffs and buttons are fantastic! The coat is going to be
> mind-blowing when you get it done. Keep posting progress pictures so we
> can get used to your work so we don't all explode when we see the
> finihsed product.  ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Karen
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost]  18th Century Fabric used for 1830's Silk WeddingGown
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It's actually "pelerine," and yes, it's the little cape thingy  :)

Worn a lot in the 1830's and 1840's for both warmth and as a decorative
piece for daytime wear.

- Kendra
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kate M Bunting" 
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Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th Century Fabric used for 1830's Silk WeddingGown


> What's a "perline" ? Is it the little cape thingy?
>
> Kate Bunting
> Library, University of Derby
>
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 11:16:53 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:16:52 -0600
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 Hope the weather gets better.

Nicole
=====
Usually it is the cold we worry about at Estrella.  The story I
remember best was about the night it was so cold the only water that
didn't freeze was the water in the coolers (ice chests) :).  Normally
this is a lovely break for those of us in the frozen midwest.

Sounds like it really started pouring just about the time the Calontir
bus got there.....

Costume content:  I made a lovely unlined, partially felted wool coat
for a friend last year specifically so he would be warm at Estrella :).

Catherine

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 11:19:26 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:18:58 -0600
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This time I didn't snort my tea all over the monitor, it dribble down my
chin from my jaw dropping open in awe :).

Beautful Bjarne!  Can't wait to see the whole coat when it is
finished.

Catherine
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Ah, right! I've heard of those, but am not sufficiently au fait with Victorian costume to have made the cognitive leap from "perline".


Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> kendrav@attbi.com 02/14/03 04:03pm >>>
It's actually "pelerine," and yes, it's the little cape thingy  :)

Worn a lot in the 1830's and 1840's for both warmth and as a decorative
piece for daytime wear.

- Kendra



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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:18:21 +0100 (CET)
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On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Robin Netherton wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Drea Leed wrote:
> 
> > Scarlet was targeted to the most affluent buyers, but Munro made the
> > point that wools of lesser value were found in the same widths.
> 
> I can't think offhand of any wool finds suggesting widths of over about a
> meter, but the archaeological record is pretty scant in the periods I'm
> most interested in. I am waiting eagerly for the report from Hull Friary.

Ah, I've finally got my hands on the published material on textiles and 
textile related finds from an archeological dig from Oslo: "De 
arkeologiske utgravninger i Gamlebyen, Oslo: Dagliglivets 
gjenstander"; published in 1987. According to this book, they found loom 
weights from a warp-weighted loom that was set up when a house 
burned, so that the weights were found where they fell when the warp 
broke. It's uncertain whether all the loom weights were 
excavated so there may have been more, but the 26 they found were 
positioned in an (uneven) row, approximately 120 cm. long. They conclude 
that the fabrics woven on the loom would have been about 120 cm. 
wide, and possibly more if there were more undiscovered weights. This 
was dated to the 12th century.

They also state that fabrics from warp-weighted looms could be more than 
two metres wide, but don't say if that can be backed up with 
archeological evidence or it it's just their assumption.

Ingrid


> > > > "Table 3.2 in the essay "The Medieval Scarlet" by John Munro (C+C
> > > > chapter 3) gives the raw measurement as well as the fulled measurement
> > > > for the length and widths of 'scarlet' and other woolens woven in
> > > > England and the Low countries between 1282-1554. This table reveals
> > > > that fabric was fairly routinely woven in widths between 3 and 4
> > > > ‘ells’ wide (one ell = about 27”); therefore fabrics were woven
> > > > between 81 and 108 inches wide. After fulling the width became 54" to
> > > > 68" wide."
> 
> --Robin
> 
> 
> 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Threads and machines
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:15:15 -0800 (PST)
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Cathy Raymond wrote:

< I, too, have had a dealer tell me not to use cheap
thread. And by 
cheap
> thread, I mean the thread that I always used to use,
not the REALLY 
cheap
> stuff. The brand (I don't know if you overseas folks
get it) is Dual 
Duty,
> and it worked/s fine on my Bernina. But when I
bought a Viking, I had 
to
> take it back to the dealer after just a month
because it snarled all 
the
> time. The dealer (a local one, not a chain) looked
at it and 
rethreaded it
> with Gutterman thread, and it worked fine. 

That's interesting.  I have used Dual Duty and
Gutterman, and although 
I 
usually don't have problems (especially when I
remember to clean the 
machine) 
I am likelier to have them when the Gutterman than
with the Dual Duty. 

Of course, I only have a crappy Kenmore (a brand
associated with the 
Sears, 
Roebuck department store chain here in the US, in case
the European and 
Australian list members were wondering) sewing
machine, not a Viking.  

>He told me that only Gutterman
> and similar threads would work well. He could
possibly have set the 
machine
> strangely (his shop does sell Gutterman thread) but
repeated 
experiments
> have shown that Dual Duty always messes up the
machine, and Gutterman
> doesn't.


I'd always assumed I did better with the Dual Duty
because it's a 
slightly 
thicker thread than Gutterman.  Maybe Vikings are set
up to work better 
with 
thinner thread?>>

I've got both a Kenmore and a Viking, and have had
good results with Gutermann in both machines.

The Kenmore I have is not a "crappy machine," and
neither are most of the Kenmores sold prior to about
1975; most were made by the White Sewing Machine Co.,
then sold at Sears under the name Kenmore. In the
mid-70s, Sears switched manufacturers; they had their
machines made by Singer, and they were pretty awful. I
learned to sew on my mother's Kenmore; she used it do
make everything from all our clothes to upholstering
the furniture and cars, and I have Adrian
Butterfield's 1950s-era Kenmore now; it saw a lot of
years as a "commercial production machine," before I
bought it in 1987, and it's still the machine I use as
my backup. I can run pretty much any kind of thread
through it, and have, from 5-for-$1 poly, to Dual
Duty, to Molynke and Guterman, to industrial nylon,
and it takes anything and just keeps on going. I had
it cleaned and reconditioned for the first time in
about 15 years (it needed the flywheel clutch
replaced), and it will probably keep going for another
50 years.

I bought a slightly used Viking #1 in 2002 because I
needed a: 1) freearm machine for doing cuffs, etc.,
and 2) a portable (the Kenmore is a cabinet-model
machine). My Viking was extremely cranky, and
originally the dealer told me it was a problem with
the thread I was using, and to use only Gutermann. It
turned out, my Viking was slightly out of time, and
once it had been adjusted (I had a different repairman
check it), it sews like a dream, with any kind of
thread, including a spool of Dual Duty I've had for
more than 20 years.

>From what I've found with the brands of machines I've
had (Viking, Kenmore, White, and Riccar), most sewing
machines don't seem to be really fussy about the kind
of thread you use (I'm not sure about Pfaff; I've
talked to a couple of people and gotten the impression
that they're a little on the finicky side). My own
personal preferences for sewing machine thread are (in
order): Molnlynke, Gutermann, Mettler Metrosene, and
Dual Duty, simply because I've had problems with the
cotton exterior stripping off the core when the thread
passes through the needle. I've found Molnlynke to be
the "smoothest," but it's extremely difficult to find
now (Did they go out of business?); since Gutermann
and Mettler are both available at my local Hancock's,
I use those.

Sorry if that's too much information for some, but
sometimes a discussion of threads and machines is
important; like quilters, we're hard on our sewing
machines, and the collective knowledge we have may
help the next person when they go out to buy a sewing
machine. Also remember: as with anything else in the
world, your mileage may vary. ;-)

Dawn Jacobson
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 12:40:03 2003
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>Then all the embroidery silk floss, gilted metal threads 
>and gilted spangels
>costed me about 4000.00 kr. So in all it has costed me 
>about 760 dollars.
>Not cheap, but hey! it kept me buisy for almost 4 years
;.)

And it will never go out of fashion!  You've made tons of
progress since this last time I was on list.  Lovely!

=====
--cin
Cynthia
hysteria95126@yahoo.com

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Bjarne wrote:

<>

Beautiful. I can't even think of another word. I wish
I had even 1/2 of your patience and skill. Thanks for
the photos. It's brightening an otherwise rather
gloomy day. 8-)

Dawn Jacobson

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Subject: [h-cost] 18th century Bishop/Priest Miter hat c. 1730
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Hi all,

I really don't know what to make of this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2507430983&category
=362

The pictures aren't big enough for me to see the embroidery. The
seller has another couple of chalice covers allegedly of a similar
age, without a reserve. So what does the team think?

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 14:34:06 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Bishop/Priest Miter hat c. 1730
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Dear Stevie.
I think it looks good. I specially like the silverlace.
Do you doubt the age of it?
I think it is 18th.c 


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: [h-cost] 18th century Bishop/Priest Miter hat c. 1730


> Hi all,
> 
> I really don't know what to make of this:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2507430983&category
> =362
> 
> The pictures aren't big enough for me to see the embroidery. The
> seller has another couple of chalice covers allegedly of a similar
> age, without a reserve. So what does the team think?
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 14:36:52 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Bishop/Priest Miter hat c. 1730
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 --- Stevie Gamble  wrote: > Hi all,
> 
> I really don't know what to make of this:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2507430983&category
> =362
> 
> The pictures aren't big enough for me to see the embroidery. The
> seller has another couple of chalice covers allegedly of a similar
> age, without a reserve. So what does the team think?

'team'? Oh goodness, I had hoped I would not have to deal with such terminology
out of office hours :-)
Anyway, to me the first thought was NO! No way! It looks all completely wrong,
but the lace on the bottom does not. The embroidered scallops are too stiff and
hard without a flourish to be of this period, it looks Victorian to me. Some of
my Victorian lace that copies late 17th c. lace is similar but just this much
stiffer and less flowing in the design. The fake (I presume) stones look all
wronmg and theatrical to me, I have never seen anything as tasteless as that in
that period. I would say it is a 19th century theatrical piece or something
like that. It just screams 'wrong' at me, but I am not expert, it is only at
the fringe of my main time period.

Nicole

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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To Stevie-

 From the scant knowledge I've gleaned about Georgian-era stone cutting 
from period=specific jewelery dealers, the "jewels" on this headpiece do 
seem to have that rather crude look that a lot of 18c faceted stones 
possess, especially the large top facet and rather cloudy appearance of 
the gem itself. I remember seeing an exhibit from Dresden of diamond 
buttons (!!!) that had that look as well.

Just some random observations and no aura of expertise intended,

Theresa Eacker

Stevie Gamble wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I really don't know what to make of this:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2507430983&category
> =362
> 
> The pictures aren't big enough for me to see the embroidery. The
> seller has another couple of chalice covers allegedly of a similar
> age, without a reserve. So what does the team think?
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 


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From: Heather Rose Jones 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Estrella Woes - OT
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:37:29 -0800
Status: RO

At 10:16 AM -0600 2/14/03, Catherine Kinsey wrote:
>  Hope the weather gets better.
>
>Nicole
>=====
>Usually it is the cold we worry about at Estrella.  The story I
>remember best was about the night it was so cold the only water that
>didn't freeze was the water in the coolers (ice chests) :).  Normally
>this is a lovely break for those of us in the frozen midwest.
>
>Sounds like it really started pouring just about the time the Calontir
>bus got there.....
>
>Costume content:  I made a lovely unlined, partially felted wool coat
>for a friend last year specifically so he would be warm at Estrella :).

Back when I used to go to Estrella, one of my favorite aspects of the 
event was that I could wear _normal_ medieval clothes, not the 
stripped-down, light-fabrics versions that make sense for California 
events.  ObCostume: I've got a coating-wool, fur-lined version of 
Herjolfsness #63 that lets me laugh in the face of any weather.  I 
took it with me in December driving out to Maine for Christmas -- not 
only did it make an excellent ordinary coat on the couple days when 
the temperature was down in the teens (Farenheit), but I figured in 
the worst-case scenario if we ran off the road and got lost in a 
blizzard it was my best hope for surviving!

Heather
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Heather Rose Jones
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From: Heather Rose Jones 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: fabric widths
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:45:39 -0800
Status: RO

At 6:18 PM +0100 2/14/03, Ingrid G. Storrø wrote:
>On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Robin Netherton wrote:
>>  On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Drea Leed wrote:
>>
>>  > Scarlet was targeted to the most affluent buyers, but Munro made the
>>  > point that wools of lesser value were found in the same widths.
>>
>>  I can't think offhand of any wool finds suggesting widths of over about a
>>  meter, but the archaeological record is pretty scant in the periods I'm
>>  most interested in. I am waiting eagerly for the report from Hull Friary.
>
>Ah, I've finally got my hands on the published material on textiles and
>textile related finds from an archeological dig from Oslo: "De
>arkeologiske utgravninger i Gamlebyen, Oslo: Dagliglivets
>gjenstander"; published in 1987. According to this book, they found loom
>weights from a warp-weighted loom that was set up when a house
>burned, so that the weights were found where they fell when the warp
>broke. It's uncertain whether all the loom weights were
>excavated so there may have been more, but the 26 they found were
>positioned in an (uneven) row, approximately 120 cm. long. They conclude
>that the fabrics woven on the loom would have been about 120 cm.
>wide, and possibly more if there were more undiscovered weights. This
>was dated to the 12th century.
>
>They also state that fabrics from warp-weighted looms could be more than
>two metres wide, but don't say if that can be backed up with
>archeological evidence or it it's just their assumption.

The warp-weighted looms have entirely different constraints on fabric 
width, and you do get significantly wider fabrics than with the later 
medieval horizontal looms.  (I hadn't brought it up because I was 
assuming the question was specifically about widths from horizontal 
looms.)  Looking at the thread-paths in the weaving, it's sometimes 
evident that up to three different weavers were working 
simultaneously with three different weft threads, passing them back 
and forth between them.  I don't have a handy reference for fabric 
dimensions, but I believe there _are_ surviving pieces that get close 
to two meters wide -- I certainly recall some around 160 cm off the 
top of my head.

The piece of warp-weighted weaving I'm working on (still in the stage 
of creating the starting border) will start out at around two meters 
square, although I expect some shrinkage once it's off the loom.

Heather
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Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Threads and machines
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:45:33 -0500
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My Bernina (20 years old) works beautifully with Gutterman and 
Mettler threads, but all the American brands snarl in it. It looks 
like the cotton coating strips off in the needle some of the time; I 
know the additional thickness seems to be a problem, too. So I just 
use the threads it likes. The only problem with that approach is that 
those threads are NASTY for hand-sewing. Ah, well.

-Amanda
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From: "Kim Baird" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Threads and machines
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:52:29 -0600
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Try Mettler's cotton thread fro hand sewing. I use it in my Bernina all
the time, too. It's call silk finish (because it is shiny).

Kim

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
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Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 3:46 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Re: Threads and machines

My Bernina (20 years old) works beautifully with Gutterman and 
Mettler threads, but all the American brands snarl in it. It looks 
like the cotton coating strips off in the needle some of the time; I 
know the additional thickness seems to be a problem, too. So I just 
use the threads it likes. The only problem with that approach is that 
those threads are NASTY for hand-sewing. Ah, well.

-Amanda
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Subject: [h-cost] My to do list - for Easter
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:56:39 +1100
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Hi,

Just got notice that Owen (10)'s cub scout camp for easter has been
cancelled, so he's now going to the Australasian Medieval Conference with
us.

This means I now have to make him some more warm clothing, as for the last
few years we've been to warmer places for the conferences, and as this one's
near the snowfields I have to get some clothing going for this too.

I've also reduced in weight (down from AUS16 to 14 (even with tight-fit
clothes!!!), and will progress to my natural 12 in trousers/skirts when it
gets there), so have to make some new clothing too (along with the new
research means new clothes!).

So this is my to-do list by Easter...

Owen: 10th century Anglo-Saxon wool overtunic, linen shirt/undertunic and
trousers, socks. Romano-British 1st century winter tunic if there's time.
Andrew(13): 17th century stocks, maybe 10th century Anglo-Danish wool
trousers, but he may just be able to get by with the linen ones we already
have. 10th century Anglo-Danish hat
Wayne: 8th century anglo-saxon trousers, 17th century stocks (the old ones
are wearing REALLY thin) 8th century anglo-saxon hat
Me: 17th century bodies, linen petticote, wool petticote, linen shift, linen
kerchief, slim down 17th century bodice, 17th century petticote (outer wear
petticote - modernly a skirt). Possibly take in my Romano-British Stola (was
a bit wide anyway). I think the 8th century anglo-saxon outfit will have to
be mothballed for a while - this is also the only thing I can't get from my
current fabric stash.

Braid for early mediaeval tunics mentioned above and below - Wayne's just
finishing making me a basic
tablet-weaving loom. I have to get down to the weaving supplies store
(40mins drive from here) one day and get some suitable wool (anyone got any
technical details on the wool used on the Oseburg tablet-woven band? - I
haven't been able to find it in my research)

My done list (since Christmas)
Andrew: 10th century Anglo-Danish woolen tunic (4-gored skirt), linen
shirt/untertunic, socks
Wayne: 8th century Anglo-Saxon Tunic (6-gored skirt), linen
shirt/undertunic, 2 pr socks (1 for Roman, 1 A-S)
Me: 1 pair socks

I am glad that my petticotes do not require fiddly fitting, and can use a
selv edge. I am also glad that I can cope with machine-sewing seams in young
children's clothing, I am a fairly fast sewer, I have patterns nearly worked
out for everything, and that 90% of the research is done, and if it isn't
Wayne and the boys can do it. AND I have a good fabric stash to raid!!

Wayne's to do list is
Replacement 17th century shoes for himself and me - our old ones have worn
out. Possibly Owen needs some 17th century shoes as well - Andrew's old
shoes could end up still being too big for him just yet!
10th century Anglo-Danish shoes for Andrew, 8th century Anglo-Saxon shoes
for him, 10th century Anglo-Saxon shoes for Owen.
Scabbards for his and Andrew's saexes suitable for their clothing (Wayne's
will be carved).
A couple more horn cups
17th century horn lantern (horns have been soaking for a couple of weeks
now)


I think that's about it,

Glenda




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From: "Glenda Robinson" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thread for wool
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:08:18 +1100
Status: RO

Hi Nicole!

> I would expect that unless the material is very coarse, one would not
> > be enough.
>
> It has nothing to do with coarse but with quality. We were mainly using
the
> diamond twill that wa sspecially woven for us in a mill in Yorkshire.

Sounds great - but hard to get. The wool I get here is commercial grade, and
every time I've tried, each single thread breaks - I'm thinking of trying
with plyed threads. Coarse wool for Aussies isn't really coarse for
Europeans - we've just got a heck of a lot of merino type sheep here, so our
standard wools is very fine. That's why I got english embroidery wool,
because of its strength. Aussie 2-ply wool falls apart too easily according
to the local wool specialist shop.

> > I recently used some 2-ply English embroidery wool as a decorative
> > contrasting seam for some Anglo-Danish clothing - worked well, but every
> > thread had to be pulled tight individually, which did take a lot longer
than
> > thread which can have a couple of stitches before each pull.
>
> That's weird, maybe you used the wrong thread, because I have done that
and no
> problems there. Can't remember which make I sued, senility raises its ugly
> head...

Could be the wool I was sewing into as well, or the stitch I was using - I
found that it pulled unevenly when pulling more than one stitch at a time. I
was doing the two-hemmed sort of seam stitch (can't remember the name -
where each piece is folded around the other twice, with close hem-style
stitching on both sides) - it was OK with standard hemming.
>

> I found with this one that I
> > couldn't use large lengths of thread either because of fraying, which I
> > assume would also be an issue with using pre-woven threads.
>
> Fraying? you mean fraying of the thread? Never encountered that.

Depends what length of thread used, maybe. I was using about 25-30cm for the
2ply. If I'm using linen, silk, cotton or modern thread I tend to use about
55-60cm lengths, so I don't have to keep going back for new threads.
>
> Sorry, I don't seem to be that helpful, but I didn't encounter any of the
> problems.

No problems here -  just observations.

Glenda.


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Subject: [h-cost] Blackadder refs - PG
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Hi all,

My husband is positive he has seen a small copy in a book somewhere of an
original 16th century painting of men wearing comedy breasts while at a
drinking party, a la Blackadder 2. Does anyone have any idea of the
existance of such a painting?

Search engines come up with inappropriate sites when we type in 'comedy
breasts 16'...

He'd really like to add a pair to his to do list for easter...

Glenda.



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Subject: [h-cost] Bishop's mitre
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Status: RO

Here's what a friend of mine had to say after viewing this item on
e-bay:

Well, that's what the seller says, but I don't believe this was ever
worn by a bishop or a priest.  Bishops' mitres had already standardised
by the era in which this was made.

I would bet that this was a crown placed on the head of a statue of Mary
for special occasions.  That would make sense. But no bishop, no matter
how addicted to the smells-and-bells end of the liturgy, would wear
something that looks like this.

Victoria
who has her very own purple mitre she made for her Mardi Gras costume
last year and spent a lot lot lot lot of time researching mitres and
other forms of liturgical dress.


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(Extremely appreciative whistle!) WOW! Lovely!

Thanks for sharing,
Arlys

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:28:22 +0000 (GMT) =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?=
 writes:
>  --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Hi. 
> > I just want to cheer you all up a bit. 
> > Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my embroidered 
> suit.
> > Cuffs and pocketflaps.
> > Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
> > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> > Bjarne
> > Leif og Bjarne Drews
> > www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> 
> GORGEOUS as ever! I showed it to my colleagues, they all loved it. 
> :-)
> 
> Nicole
> 
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
> 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's mitre
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>Here's what a friend of mine had to say after viewing this item on
>e-bay:
>
>Well, that's what the seller says, but I don't believe this was ever
>worn by a bishop or a priest.  Bishops' mitres had already standardised
>by the era in which this was made.
>
>I would bet that this was a crown placed on the head of a statue of Mary
>for special occasions.  That would make sense. But no bishop, no matter
>how addicted to the smells-and-bells end of the liturgy, would wear
>something that looks like this.

That sounds reasonable.  Or maybe, with those giant jewels on the front, it 
was worn by the same statue in a public parade.  As in, don't mitres have 
both sides standing up pointy, instead of only in the front and a fastening 
in the back?  But I do believe it came from a church, out of a cupboard so 
dark nobody there remembered what it originally was.


Kayta

    //// \\\
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Subject: [h-cost] Heads up
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Tonight on TV Land Cable Station 9:00 East Coast time:

Inside TV Land
Style & Fashion
60 min.
TV's best-dressed, past and present, are spotlighted during a nostalgic and
entertaining look at television's impact on fashion.
Harry Shearer narrates a compilation of clips culled from more than five
decades of sitcoms, dramas and variety shows. Featured among the trends are
the capri pants Mary Tyler Moore wore on The Dick Van Dyke Show, polyester
threads from The Brady Bunch, the much-copied hairdos known as “the Farrah”
and “the Rachel,” and the short skirts popularized by Ally McBeal. In
addition, comments are offered by such memorable dressers as Cher, Madonna,
Will Smith and cast members from Charlie's Angels, Miami Vice and Sex and
the City.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: [h-cost] Duh!!!!  I just figured it out!!!!!
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:45:25 -0500
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Tonight on NBC was a show on most remembered TV weddings.  I was watching it
and 45 mins. into the show, it dawned on me.  The producers of this show had
contacted me last summer to get in touch with David Emanuel, designer for
Princess Diana's wedding dress.  I saw David that next week at the Ball and
gave him the info. Gosh, I need to start writing things down.  I had forgot
all about that.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: [h-cost] Pleased as Punch!!!!!
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I am so thrilled to tell you this... Shashy, our new intern gave the front
of our Research Library a makeover.
http://www.costumegallery.com/research.htm She made a new logo and books
graphics.  We pulled all the Year in Fashions into one area.  Now you can
click on a time period and see what is available for it.  I have been
waiting for two years to give the Library this makeover.  The Library is
better organized and easier to surf.

Remember last week, I told you that we are giving all the library areas a
makeover.  So if you run into an area, with a pretty dress logo... it is in
the process of a makeover OR it is a new addition that we are working on.

BTW, for those who are feeling sorry for me that I have nothing better to do
on Valentine's Day.... my husband Joe, is in his second to last semester of
getting two post-bacculate certificates in computers.  He is in the stressed
out phase of the semester and running on very little sleep.  My gift to him
was to go to sleep at 7PM and sleep as long as he wants.  Anyways, I enjoy
my job!!!  I'll catch up on romance during Spring break!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 22:16:35 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
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Subject: [h-cost] My first Bobbin Lace Class
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:17:47 -0700
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Bjarne, I thought of you today.  I took my first bobbin lace class.  I
have poor spatial orientation, but I managed through it as long as I
closed my eyes!.  It was fun.  I am noodling on how to make my first
pillow!

Sg



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 22:19:30 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Origins of the word Gollar
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Bjarne, do you have any word in your native language that resembles
Gollar?  I have just started poking around for the origins of this word
and don't find anything in my modern German dictionary for it.  Collar
is Kragen in German.  I am wondering if it means cape in a Flemish
language?
 
Sg
 

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Bjarne, do you have any word in your native language =
that
resembles Gollar?  I have just started poking =
around for
the origins of this word and don’t find anything in my modern =
German
dictionary for it.  Collar =
is Kragen in German. 
I am wondering if it means cape in a Flemish language?



 



Sg



 









------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2D466.9592E520--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 14 22:39:39 2003
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From: Melanie Schuessler 
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Subject: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:37:14 -0600
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 Since Nicole was complaining about the pewter on the garnet pendant
turning black, I emailed Steve to ask him if he carries it in gilt
plate, and voila:

> Hi Melanie, you are right at the cutting edge. I was just photographing the
> first ones just now. The price is now £37.50.

It's on my birthday list for sure!

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 00:04:10 2003
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From: "Anne Moeller" 
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times
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Oh, Bjarne,

This is GORGEOUS!!!!  I have to ask how long it took to get to this
point?  Also, is this done with two strands of the Eterna silk?  They
seem to have so many types of thread I can't tell which is best.  

Thanks you for sharing your wonderful talent,  Anne

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:58 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times

Hi. 
I just want to cheer you all up a bit. 
Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my embroidered suit.
Cuffs and pocketflaps.
Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
Bjarne
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 00:17:33 2003
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On Friday 14 February 2003 12:15 pm, Jacobson Dawn wrote:
> Cathy Raymond wrote:
>[text cut here]
>
> I've got both a Kenmore and a Viking, and have had
> good results with Gutermann in both machines.
>
> The Kenmore I have is not a "crappy machine," and
> neither are most of the Kenmores sold prior to about
> 1975; most were made by the White Sewing Machine Co.,
> then sold at Sears under the name Kenmore. In the
> mid-70s, Sears switched manufacturers; they had their
> machines made by Singer, and they were pretty awful.

I understand, but my Kenmore is not, in fact, one of the pre-1975 Kenmores.  
It was purchased as best I remember in the late 1970s or early 1980s, and it 
was by no means a top-of-the-line model.

The best thing I'll say for it is that it does the relatively undemanding 
things I require of it, but not without effort.

Thanks for the information, though.  It's useful to see what other people's 
experience has shown.

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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On Friday 14 February 2003 12:43 pm, Jacobson Dawn wrote:
> Bjarne wrote:
>
> < I just want to cheer you all up a bit.
> Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my
> embroidered suit.
> Cuffs and pocketflaps.
> Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm



> Beautiful. I can't even think of another word. I wish
> I had even 1/2 of your patience and skill. Thanks for
> the photos. It's brightening an otherwise rather
> gloomy day. 8-)

I second and third Dawn's sentiments, Bjarne.  Impressive!


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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 --- Melanie Schuessler  wrote: >  Since Nicole was
complaining about the pewter on the garnet pendant
> turning black, I emailed Steve to ask him if he carries it in gilt
> plate, and voila:
> 
> > Hi Melanie, you are right at the cutting edge. I was just photographing the
> > first ones just now. The price is now £37.50.

Well... I have seen all his gilt bits 'in the flesh' and neighbours bought his
'diamond' pendant but I just don't like the screaming gold colour. That's a
personal dislike, doesn't reflect at all on the quality of his work. I wish he
would work in silver. I don't buy from him anymore because he only uses pewter
and that is just an inferior material, if he used silver, my goodness I'd
bancrupt myself with his wonderful stuff! :-)

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 05:13:49 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] My UK hat supplier has a web site now
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:14:18 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

Katherine Tindle from Kitty Hats has a web site now, so ikn case anyone in the
UK is looking for well made lovely hats (and any kind one can think of,
including one's own ideas) here it is: http://www.kittyhats.co.uk/

I did not get the very expensive and super Officer's hat for Ben for her, the
posh stuff I leave to a theatrical master hat maker in London, but Katherine
does great hats for very reasonable money.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 08:56:02 2003
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From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Threads and machines
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:00:34 -0500
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I have to say ditto, for my beloved Kenmore, now in semi retirement.  It is
of the time period below; was purchased for a whopping $300 which was all I
could afford at the time, and gave more than yoeman's service until my
trusty repairman said he was having trouble getting the replacement parts
that were of the quality that were in the original.  This gem had all steel
innards... It never complained about any thread except metallics, could sew
leather, silk, wood, and of course all the regulars, and I could clean the
bobbin trace myself when necessary.
Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Threads and machines


> On Friday 14 February 2003 12:15 pm, Jacobson Dawn wrote:
> > Cathy Raymond wrote:
> >[text cut here]
> >
> > I've got both a Kenmore and a Viking, and have had
> > good results with Gutermann in both machines.
> >
> > The Kenmore I have is not a "crappy machine," and
> > neither are most of the Kenmores sold prior to about
> > 1975; most were made by the White Sewing Machine Co.,
> > then sold at Sears under the name Kenmore. In the
> > mid-70s, Sears switched manufacturers; they had their
> > machines made by Singer, and they were pretty awful.
>
> I understand, but my Kenmore is not, in fact, one of the pre-1975
Kenmores.
> It was purchased as best I remember in the late 1970s or early 1980s, and
it
> was by no means a top-of-the-line model.
>
> The best thing I'll say for it is that it does the relatively undemanding
> things I require of it, but not without effort.
>
> Thanks for the information, though.  It's useful to see what other
people's
> experience has shown.
>
> --
> Cathy Raymond 
>
> "If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 09:34:47 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:32:07 -0600
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N Kipar wrote:
> 
> Well... I have seen all his gilt bits 'in the flesh' and neighbours bought his
> 'diamond' pendant but I just don't like the screaming gold colour. That's a
> personal dislike, doesn't reflect at all on the quality of his work. I wish he
> would work in silver. I don't buy from him anymore because he only uses pewter
> and that is just an inferior material, if he used silver, my goodness I'd
> bancrupt myself with his wonderful stuff! :-)

Hm...good to know.  Is the screaming gold brighter than real gold would
be, or do you just prefer silver tones to gold?

Melanie Schuessler
http://ww.faucet.net/costume
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 09:41:03 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] wanted ergent!
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:44:06 +0100
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Dear listmembers.
This is an important wanted.
Is there any of you listmembers who has the Munic Catalog who could
translate a small part for me from german to english?
Katia Johansen, textile konservator at the Rosenborg Castle is asking for
help about a portrait of Frederik III.
He is wearing a white falling band with tassels.
As she claims that no surviving tassels like this exists, she is asking if
anybody know how it was made.
Well the Munic catalog has a Tassel, just like the portrait, and my german
is very bad.
So if someone could translate the text for the first tassel on page 111 i
would pass on the translation for her.
If any of you would be interrested to see the portrait, i would gladly post
it, so that you could follow this!
I am sooooooo happy, that i will be able to tell her, that there is such an
excisting tassel :-)
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 09:50:36 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Origins of the word Gollar
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Dear Saragrace.
Is it the word Gollar you refer to or is it the word Collar?
The danish word for a Collar is KRAVE and i think it comes from the word =
KRAVAT.
So i cant help you with GOLLAR, nothing like this in danish - sorry

Bjarne



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Saragrace Knauf=20
  To: drewscph@post12.tele.dk=20
  Cc: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 4:20 AM
  Subject: [h-cost] Origins of the word Gollar


  Bjarne, do you have any word in your native language that resembles =
Gollar?  I have just started poking around for the origins of this word =
and don't find anything in my modern German dictionary for it.  Collar =
is Kragen in German.  I am wondering if it means cape in a Flemish =
language?

  =20

  Sg

  =20


------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2D50A.5DCB77C0
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Dear Saragrace.


Is it the word Gollar you refer to or =
is it the=20
word Collar?


The danish word for a Collar is KRAVE =
and i think=20
it comes from the word KRAVAT.


So i cant help you with GOLLAR, nothing =
like this=20
in danish - sorry


 


Bjarne


 


 


 


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk
=


 


http://home0.inet.tele.dk/dr=
ewscph/



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Saragrace Knauf 

  
  
  
Sent: Saturday, February 15, =
2003 4:20=20
  AM

  
Subject: [h-cost] Origins of =
the word=20
  Gollar

  


  

  
Bjarne, do you have any =
word in=20
  your native language that resembles Gollar?  I have just started poking =
around for=20
  the origins of this word and don=92t find anything in my modern German =

  dictionary for it.  =
Collar is=20
  Kragen in German.  I am wondering if it means =
cape in a=20
  Flemish language?

  
 

  
Sg

  
 


------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2D50A.5DCB77C0--


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 09:54:45 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:57:50 +0100
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Hi
Thanks for the Phraise you all send me, it keeps me going on, it is
wonderfull to get all this feed back.
Well this suit i started 4 years ago, and i have used many many hours of
work on it, and i have putten it a side many times because i got some orders
i had to finish. But it is 100' s of hours that is for sure.
No it is not Eterna Silk, this is Pipers Silk from England, and the reaon it
has taken me so much time is because this Pipers Silk floss is very very
thin, only four times smaller than an ordinary sewing thread. But it is this
thread they used back in time, also for Elizabethan times.

Bjarne



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Moeller" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 6:04 AM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times


> Oh, Bjarne,
>
> This is GORGEOUS!!!!  I have to ask how long it took to get to this
> point?  Also, is this done with two strands of the Eterna silk?  They
> seem to have so many types of thread I can't tell which is best.
>
> Thanks you for sharing your wonderful talent,  Anne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
> Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:58 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times
>
> Hi.
> I just want to cheer you all up a bit.
> Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my embroidered suit.
> Cuffs and pocketflaps.
> Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> Bjarne
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 10:22:49 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eyecandy for hard times
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Bjarne,

Simply astonishingly gorgeous.  I wish I had that kind of patience and steadiness of hand. 
  WOW!
-- 
Linda Thompson

Attitude Is Everything
http://corsetsandcostumes.com

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 10:29:31 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:30:42 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- Melanie Schuessler  wrote: > 
> Hm...good to know.  Is the screaming gold brighter than real gold would
> be, or do you just prefer silver tones to gold?

It is _very_ gold, but _not_ fake so. It's just that I really don't like the
colour, I'd say this is very much a personal taste because I prefer silver to
gold. It is actually gold because it's gold plated, and I thought the gold was
very yellowy, but my neighbours loved it, she has the top picture one, it
really is a personal taste, but no I don't think it looks fake.

http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/gold%20plated%20jewellery.htm

Nicole 

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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] wanted ergent!
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:36:05 +0000 (GMT)
Status: RO

 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Dear listmembers.
> This is an important wanted.
> Is there any of you listmembers who has the Munic Catalog who could
> translate a small part for me from german to english?
> Katia Johansen, textile konservator at the Rosenborg Castle is asking for
> help about a portrait of Frederik III.
> He is wearing a white falling band with tassels.
> As she claims that no surviving tassels like this exists, she is asking if
> anybody know how it was made.
> Well the Munic catalog has a Tassel, just like the portrait, and my german
> is very bad.
> So if someone could translate the text for the first tassel on page 111 i
> would pass on the translation for her.
> If any of you would be interrested to see the portrait, i would gladly post
> it, so that you could follow this!
> I am sooooooo happy, that i will be able to tell her, that there is such an
> excisting tassel :-)
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk

There are several tassels, show me the portrait and I can try translate it, but
be warned, I am the world's worst translator *G*

Nicole

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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 10:36:50 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:37:56 -0500
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Katie,

Are you back now and mostly unpacked?

How was your trip, the dancing, the Clothing on the other dancers?


from a nosy dancer,

Ann in CT



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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:10:29 +0100 (CET)
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On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
> At 6:18 PM +0100 2/14/03, Ingrid G. Storrø wrote:
> >They also state that fabrics from warp-weighted looms could be more than
> >two metres wide, but don't say if that can be backed up with
> >archeological evidence or it it's just their assumption.
> 
> The warp-weighted looms have entirely different constraints on fabric 
> width, and you do get significantly wider fabrics than with the later 
> medieval horizontal looms.  (I hadn't brought it up because I was 
> assuming the question was specifically about widths from horizontal 
> looms.)

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you guys were speaking only of 
horizontal looms. I guess I've been too focused on my 
Scandinavian/Norwegian research lately to make the connection  
medieval=horizontal looms, which  is obviously the case for most other 
places than here. Up here in this backward little corner of the world 
horizontal looms don't seem to be on record before the 16th century, so 
that excepting imports, most fabric is likely to have been made on 
warp-weighted looms throughout the middle ages. I'd love to be proven 
wrong on this by the way, if anyone has any sources I'm not aware of. :)


Ingrid

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 10:52:38 2003
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From: Cynthia J Ley 
Subject: [h-cost] eye candy -Pipers
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:37:15 -0800
Status: RO

Greetings Bjarne.

You wrote:

> No it is not Eterna Silk, this is Pipers Silk from England, and the 
> reaon it has taken me so much time is because this Pipers Silk floss is
very 
> very thin, only four times smaller than an ordinary sewing thread. But
it 
> is this thread they used back in time, also for Elizabethan times.

Could you please send out more information on this? I've never read
anything regarding the exceptional fineness of thread during the
Elizabethan era, and would love to learn more. Also, does Pipers have a
website and/or catalog address?

Thanks! 

Exquisite work! :)

Arlys

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:23:27 -0500
Status: RO

Ingrid G. Storrø wrote:
> Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you guys were speaking only of 
> horizontal looms. I guess I've been too focused on my 
> Scandinavian/Norwegian research lately to make the connection  
> medieval=horizontal looms, which  is obviously the case for most other 
> places than here. Up here in this backward little corner of the world 
> horizontal looms don't seem to be on record before the 16th century, so 
> that excepting imports, most fabric is likely to have been made on 
> warp-weighted looms throughout the middle ages. I'd love to be proven 
> wrong on this by the way, if anyone has any sources I'm not aware of. :)

	Denmark seemed to be starting with horizontal looms around 
late viking age - they found bits and pulleys at Hedeby 
which they show in their museum. Ok, so Danish would be an 
import to Norway, but at least it's still Scandinavia.

	-Judy Mitchell


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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <20030215153605.58183.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] wanted ergent!
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:24:07 +0100
Status: RO

Dear Nicole.
You only have to translate the first tassel on page 111 because this is the
type wich is closest to the portrait i think.
Do you have the catalog or shall i send the german text?
This is sooooooo exciting :-)
Here is the details:

http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/frederi_iiik



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] wanted ergent!


> --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Dear
listmembers.
> > This is an important wanted.
> > Is there any of you listmembers who has the Munic Catalog who could
> > translate a small part for me from german to english?
> > Katia Johansen, textile konservator at the Rosenborg Castle is asking
for
> > help about a portrait of Frederik III.
> > He is wearing a white falling band with tassels.
> > As she claims that no surviving tassels like this exists, she is asking
if
> > anybody know how it was made.
> > Well the Munic catalog has a Tassel, just like the portrait, and my
german
> > is very bad.
> > So if someone could translate the text for the first tassel on page 111
i
> > would pass on the translation for her.
> > If any of you would be interrested to see the portrait, i would gladly
post
> > it, so that you could follow this!
> > I am sooooooo happy, that i will be able to tell her, that there is such
an
> > excisting tassel :-)
> > Leif og Bjarne Drews
> > www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> There are several tassels, show me the portrait and I can try translate
it, but
> be warned, I am the world's worst translator *G*
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 11:31:45 2003
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From: "Talia" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:32:29 -0600
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The reason it is so yellow is because it states he used 23kt gold to plate
it. Most people are used to seeing the color of 14k or 18k as "gold" and so
a higher karat always looks a bit different or "too gold" to us.

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of N Kipar
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 9:31 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas



It is _very_ gold, but _not_ fake so. It's just that I really don't like the
colour, I'd say this is very much a personal taste because I prefer silver
to
gold. It is actually gold because it's gold plated, and I thought the gold
was
very yellowy, but my neighbours loved it, she has the top picture one, it
really is a personal taste, but no I don't think it looks fake.

http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/gold%20plated%20jewellery.htm

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 11:31:45 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] pipers silks
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:35:07 +0100
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Could you please send out more information on this? I've never read
anything regarding the exceptional fineness of thread during the
Elizabethan era, and would love to learn more. Also, does Pipers have a
website and/or catalog address?

Thanks! 

Exquisite work! :)

Arlys

Dear Arlys
Pipers silks adress:
htpp//www.pipers-silks.com/colour1.htm


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 11:39:37 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] pipers silks
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:43:06 +0100
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Sorry, it did not work
Here is Pipers Silks
Leif og Bjarne Drews

http://pipers-silks.com/colour1.html

I missed the last l




www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 5:35 PM
Subject: [h-cost] pipers silks


> Could you please send out more information on this? I've never read
> anything regarding the exceptional fineness of thread during the
> Elizabethan era, and would love to learn more. Also, does Pipers have a
> website and/or catalog address?
> 
> Thanks! 
> 
> Exquisite work! :)
> 
> Arlys
> 
> Dear Arlys
> Pipers silks adress:
> htpp//www.pipers-silks.com/colour1.htm
> 
> 
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> 
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> 
> 
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> 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 11:39:39 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] wanted ergent!
From: sylvia 
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I know some German, but I don't see anything to translate on the page
indicated in the url below.

Sylvia R

on 2/15/03 9:24 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews at drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote:

> Dear Nicole.
> You only have to translate the first tassel on page 111 because this is the
> type wich is closest to the portrait i think.
> Do you have the catalog or shall i send the german text?
> This is sooooooo exciting :-)
> Here is the details:
> 
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/frederi_iiik
> 
> 

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 11:42:03 2003
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times/pins and needles
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:51:57 -0800
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Bjarne wrote:

> No it is not Eterna Silk, this is Pipers Silk from England, and the reaon
it
> has taken me so much time is because this Pipers Silk floss is very very
> thin, only four times smaller than an ordinary sewing thread. But it is
this
> thread they used back in time, also for Elizabethan times.
>
This makes a great deal of sense to me as that needle seemed very thick in
comparison to the thread when I viewed it on my monitor.  I was comparing
the needle size to my idea of what the thread thickness should be.  Old
needles seem thick to me.  I suppose that has to do with changes in metal
over time and they were probably thinner when new.  Does anyone know if this
assumption holds up?  I have picked up a few pins and needles from medieval
times forward and they are fairly thick.  Have the thin ones all broken?
One new tidbit of info or acquisition always inspires 15 more questions!!!!

Beautiful work again.

Lisa


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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Talia wrote:

> The reason it is so yellow is because it states he used 23kt gold to plate
> it. Most people are used to seeing the color of 14k or 18k as "gold" and so
> a higher karat always looks a bit different or "too gold" to us.

I have always noticed modern golds looked whitish or yellowy in comparison
to "vintage" jewelry that was made with a more reddish gold (with copper
usedas the alloy rather than the more whitish metal used today, I forget
what). How far back were the "red" golds typical? My few pieces of vintage
red-gold jewelry are mostly 19th c. and early 20th, but I gather that it
goes back much further.

--Robin

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:53:45 -0700
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Not Bjarne, but here's the website:
http://www.pipers-silks.com/
I've never actually ordered from them, but I'd sure like to.....
--sue

Cynthia J Ley wrote:
> 
> 
> Could you please send out more information on this? I've never read
> anything regarding the exceptional fineness of thread during the
> Elizabethan era, and would love to learn more. Also, does Pipers have a
> website and/or catalog address?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Exquisite work! :)
> 
> Arlys
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> Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you guys were speaking only of 
> horizontal looms. I guess I've been too focused on my 
> Scandinavian/Norwegian research lately to make the connection  
> medieval=horizontal looms, which  is obviously the case for most other
> places than here. Up here in this backward little corner of the world
> horizontal looms don't seem to be on record before the 16th century,
> so that excepting imports, most fabric is likely to have been made on
> warp-weighted looms throughout the middle ages. I'd love to be proven
> wrong on this by the way, if anyone has any sources I'm not aware of.
> :)

I think that "different style" does not equal backward. Scandinavian 
warp weighted looms were used even in the 20th C. They work well for 
that area. 

Barber, in her books on "prehistoric textiles" (both of them) 
discusses why she thinks certain areas tended to have vertical (such 
as warp weighted) looms and others had horizontal looms. Interesting 
reading.

Kat



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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] wanted ergent!
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 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Dear Nicole.
> You only have to translate the first tassel on page 111 because this is the
> type wich is closest to the portrait i think.
> Do you have the catalog or shall i send the german text?
> This is sooooooo exciting :-)
> Here is the details:
> 
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/frederi_iiik

No problem, I have the catalogue, friend and family got it for me. 

Linen tassel, Germany or Italy (?) second half of 17th century.

Height 24.5 cm, diameter (max) 9 cm

The ribbons are coloured silk ribbons, and it is believed the tassel held a
linen curtain. (not clothing, far too big).

2 wooden large beads are mounted one on top of the other and wrapped with a
linen thread in a herringbone pattern, so that it makes a pumpkin shape. There
are wooden beads at the side that are also wrapped, from which threads extend
that are braided/plaited. Short plaits end in small, toggle-shaped knots; there
are bundled in such a way, that they appear like star-flowers.
Ribbons made of red and purple silk taffeta are added as decoration. One plait,
that is turned into a loop, comes from a smaller wooden bead, that is also
wrapped in linen thread. The tassel is worked with linen thread (S-spun,
2-ply).

That's it! Hope it helps.

Nicole - miffed she couldn't get to the peace-march in London today. 

=====
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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times/pins and needles
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 --- Lisa Sinervo  wrote: > 
> assumption holds up?  I have picked up a few pins and needles from medieval
> times forward and they are fairly thick.  Have the thin ones all broken?
> One new tidbit of info or acquisition always inspires 15 more questions!!!!

Ohhh, I don't know about the why and wherefore nor have studied it, but I
remember that I was thinking 'must send this to h-cost' when being in the
Ashmolean in Oxford last Sunday. We saw the thinniest pins I could possibly
imagine, and they were no later than 15th century! They were as thin as modern
pins, absolutely amazing, I had never seen any like this and certainly not on
re-enactors.

Nicole

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URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: Lee Thompson-Herbert 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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 wrote:
> 
> It is _very_ gold, but _not_ fake so. It's just that I really don't like the
> colour, I'd say this is very much a personal taste because I prefer silver to
> gold. It is actually gold because it's gold plated, and I thought the gold was
> very yellowy, but my neighbours loved it, she has the top picture one, it
> really is a personal taste, but no I don't think it looks fake.
> 
> http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/gold%20plated%20jewellery.htm

Most people today are used to thinking of 14K gold as "gold", even though
it's very pale in comparison to 24K gold.  Real gold has an almost reddish
tone.  

However, one reason to dislike pewter jewelry is that it's very soft.  Even
silver isn't the greatest material if you're going to prong-set stones, and
pewter is even softer, making even bezels fairly risky.  I'd be worried about
filigree pieces like this one bending out of shape.

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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Robin Netherton  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Talia wrote:
> 
> > The reason it is so yellow is because it states he used 23kt gold to plate
> > it. Most people are used to seeing the color of 14k or 18k as "gold" and so
> > a higher karat always looks a bit different or "too gold" to us.
> 
> I have always noticed modern golds looked whitish or yellowy in comparison
> to "vintage" jewelry that was made with a more reddish gold (with copper
> usedas the alloy rather than the more whitish metal used today, I forget
> what). How far back were the "red" golds typical? My few pieces of vintage
> red-gold jewelry are mostly 19th c. and early 20th, but I gather that it
> goes back much further.

Modern gold alloys are usually made with nickle, occasionally with palladium.
White gold has a higher percentage.  I've seen "red" gold as far back as 
irish pre-celtic invasion pieces.  In fact, some of the gaelic words that 
denote "gold" really mean a reddish hue.  So if you see someone called Nia
the Golden-haired, she probably had strawberry blonde hair.  Ruadh means a
bright red to auburn.  This is why certain partisans insist that the irish
flag is really green, white, and _gold_, not orange.

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:25:00 +0000 (GMT)
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 --- Lee Thompson-Herbert  wrote: > 

> Most people today are used to thinking of 14K gold as "gold", even though
> it's very pale in comparison to 24K gold.  Real gold has an almost reddish
> tone.  

No, this does not look reddish, this looks extremely yellow. I l;ike reddish, I
dislike yellow. I don't care how many carats, I just don't like the colour!
*laughs*

> However, one reason to dislike pewter jewelry is that it's very soft.  Even
> silver isn't the greatest material if you're going to prong-set stones, and
> pewter is even softer, making even bezels fairly risky.  I'd be worried about
> filigree pieces like this one bending out of shape.

Actually, no, I haven't had a single problem with this at all, and I wear it
often on the choker and also for costume purposes, so perhaps I am either lucky
or he does something to his pewter? :-)
I just don't like the fact it turns darker and one day will be blackish and
there is nothing at all one can do about that. Yes, polishing, but it just
won't keep it completely from getting dark and dull. 
Still, it is _lovely_ and I think his stuff is gorgeous.

Nicole

=====
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: "Talia" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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Just for info's sake..."karat" is used when referring to gold and "carat" is
used when referring to the weight of gemstones. They're actually two
completely different meanings.

:)

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of N Kipar
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 12:25 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas



No, this does not look reddish, this looks extremely yellow. I l;ike
reddish, I
dislike yellow. I don't care how many carats, I just don't like the colour!
*laughs*

Nicole


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 15:14:49 2003
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The gold in the *amazing* display at the Irish National Museum in Dublin
are a very bright gold, and a lot of those pieces are prehistoric.
The color was enough to light up a room--a deep, deep yellowy tone. 
Nothing pales about it at all!  Absolutely droolsome....
--sue

Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
> 
> Modern gold alloys are usually made with nickle, occasionally with palladium.
> White gold has a higher percentage.  I've seen "red" gold as far back as
> irish pre-celtic invasion pieces.  In fact, some of the gaelic words that
> denote "gold" really mean a reddish hue.  So if you see someone called Nia
> the Golden-haired, she probably had strawberry blonde hair.  Ruadh means a
> bright red to auburn.  This is why certain partisans insist that the irish
> flag is really green, white, and _gold_, not orange.
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Dear Nicole.
Thanks so much for the work you did for me. You know if there is something i
can help you with, dont hessitate to ask me.
This was very nice of you, and then i also better can understand it, my
german is very very bad, havent used it for years and years, and then you
gorget!
Thanks again Nicole :-)

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Dear Nicole.
> Thanks so much for the work you did for me. You know if there is something i
> can help you with, dont hessitate to ask me.
> This was very nice of you, and then i also better can understand it, my
> german is very very bad, havent used it for years and years, and then you
> gorget!
> Thanks again Nicole :-)

No problems, you're welcome. I did it because I _like_ you, you are a very nice
person, I don't want anything in return. :-)

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War' (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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 --- Talia  wrote: > Just for info's sake..."karat" is used
when referring to gold and "carat" is
> used when referring to the weight of gemstones. They're actually two
> completely different meanings.
> 

I am not a native English speaker Talia, as I have repeatedly said, to me carat
and karat are the same, because in Germany we use Karat.
It was a spelling mistake. Apparently.

Thanks though for the info.

Nicole

=====
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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 16:09:35 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times
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Your work is breathaking.  My favorite thing to do is hand bead clothes (the
1920s would be my "era" if I had one) and I find myself just holding my
breath when I look at your embroidery.  I began embroidering blue denim work
jeans in the mid 1960s as part of the "hippie" movement here in the US and
I've found various ways to embellish clothing ever since.  I am currently
working on a prom dress inspired by my daughter's desire to have an Elie
Saab original (Halle Berry, 2002 Oscars) and we'll see if it gets there soon
enough.  Looking at your beautiful tiny stitches, I find myself checking the
back of my work (I've never been good about keeping that neat) and finishing
my knots carefully.   I will try to get pictures of the dress to put on the
web and share with you all.  Handwork is such a lost art and so worth the
while.

Someday maybe you can tell me how you get those lovely little ridges on the
outside of your satin stitches. Does that stitch have a name?  You continue
to be my inspiration.

Fondly

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design
"If we shadows have offended, think but this,
 and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here,
 while these visions did appear."
A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times


> Hi
> Thanks for the Phraise you all send me, it keeps me going on, it is
> wonderfull to get all this feed back.
> Well this suit i started 4 years ago, and i have used many many hours of
> work on it, and i have putten it a side many times because i got some
orders
> i had to finish. But it is 100' s of hours that is for sure.
> No it is not Eterna Silk, this is Pipers Silk from England, and the reaon
it
> has taken me so much time is because this Pipers Silk floss is very very
> thin, only four times smaller than an ordinary sewing thread. But it is
this
> thread they used back in time, also for Elizabethan times.
>
> Bjarne
>
>
>
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anne Moeller" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 6:04 AM
> Subject: RE: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times
>
>
> > Oh, Bjarne,
> >
> > This is GORGEOUS!!!!  I have to ask how long it took to get to this
> > point?  Also, is this done with two strands of the Eterna silk?  They
> > seem to have so many types of thread I can't tell which is best.
> >
> > Thanks you for sharing your wonderful talent,  Anne
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
> > Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
> > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:58 AM
> > To: h-costume@indra.com
> > Subject: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times
> >
> > Hi.
> > I just want to cheer you all up a bit.
> > Here is a prewiew of some of the finished parts of my embroidered suit.
> > Cuffs and pocketflaps.
> > Warning, it is very high resolution closeups!
> > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> > Bjarne
> > Leif og Bjarne Drews
> > www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> >
> > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:28:45 -0600
Status: RO

Hey, now I learned something because I didn't know that! Thanks! :)

T.

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of N Kipar
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 3:03 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas

I am not a native English speaker Talia, as I have repeatedly said, to me
carat
and karat are the same, because in Germany we use Karat.
It was a spelling mistake. Apparently.

Thanks though for the info.

Nicole


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 17:33:31 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:37:04 +0100
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Someday maybe you can tell me how you get those lovely little ridges on the
outside of your satin stitches. Does that stitch have a name?  You continue
to be my inspiration.

Fondly


Hi Fondly.
Well all the ivory "balls" and all the blue forgetmenots is made of
buttonholestitches, this is the little ridge you see.
All buttonholestitches goes trough the same hole in the middle, and out on
the edge of each motiv, very simple!

Bjarne


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 15 17:50:35 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thread for wool
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:16:37 +1100
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Further to this...

I got some wool from the left-overs pile (1.36m/1.2m + a few bits and
pieces) for Owen's A/S tunic - it's a very tightly woven 18-20 thread/inch,
and there was no problem with tearing when tugging on the wool. I've tried
it before with thinner wool (25-30 threads/inch), which tore enough to
render it unusable.

As this one's rock solid, I've sewing it with a run/fell (not turned as it's
a bit fulled and won't fray too badly). Have now done all the seams - just
the neckhole and the hems to go.

It seems that it's all in the thread diameter.

So much for me sewing Owen's clothing by machine, but I do enjoy it more.

Glenda.


----- Original Message -----

> Hi Nicole!
>

> Sounds great - but hard to get. The wool I get here is commercial grade,
and
> every time I've tried, each single thread breaks - I'm thinking of trying
> with plyed threads. Coarse wool for Aussies isn't really coarse for
> Europeans - we've just got a heck of a lot of merino type sheep here, so
our
> standard wools is very fine. That's why I got english embroidery wool,
> because of its strength. Aussie 2-ply wool falls apart too easily
according
> to the local wool specialist shop.
>







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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:14:14 -0500
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This gold color reminds me of vermeil.  It is a color I expect for Classical
(Roman and Greek) jewelry but not  for Renn. times...or later.  What is a
proper description (and content) of burnished gold, and what time period(s)
is it proper for?                           Kathleen
Who has just done her bit for the Library Tea
----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas


> --- Melanie Schuessler  wrote: >
> > Hm...good to know.  Is the screaming gold brighter than real gold would
> > be, or do you just prefer silver tones to gold?
>
> It is _very_ gold, but _not_ fake so. It's just that I really don't like
the
> colour, I'd say this is very much a personal taste because I prefer silver
to
> gold. It is actually gold because it's gold plated, and I thought the gold
was
> very yellowy, but my neighbours loved it, she has the top picture one, it
> really is a personal taste, but no I don't think it looks fake.
>
> http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/gold%20plated%20jewellery.htm
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:53:01 -0800
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At 10:32 AM -0600 2/15/03, Talia wrote:
>The reason it is so yellow is because it states he used 23kt gold to plate
>it. Most people are used to seeing the color of 14k or 18k as "gold" and so
>a higher karat always looks a bit different or "too gold" to us.

I've always found it amusing that, in medieval Welsh literature, the 
standard description of gold jewelry is "red gold" -- which evidently 
was a sign of the low purity (high copper content) of the available 
metal.  But nobody would have thought of praising a gold item by 
calling it anything other than "red gold".  (Note: the copper-content 
aspect is offered on an "I read it in a book somewhere" basis, and no 
warranty is offered for its precise accuracy.  The literary 
description part is from my own research.)

Heather
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Subject: [h-cost] Modern gold (was Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas)
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> > Modern gold alloys are usually made with nickle,
> occasionally with palladium.
> > White gold has a higher percentage. 


There really is nothing "modern" about yellow gold. If
there is a "modern" gold, it's more likely to be white
gold. The colour of the resulting gold item depends on
the alloys used. Rose gold has a high percentage of
copper in it, so, in period, reddish gold probably had
more to do with which metals were available locally,
then any level of "purity". 

 

I used to have an almost pure gold ring that was given
to me as a little girl - it was a vivid yellow gold.



Bella

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Subject: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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I and a friend were talking about clothing that we had inherited --
mine from my grandmother and my friend from her mother.  In both
cases, even though the garments were handmade by these people (we even
have the scraps to prove it!), they have store tags sewn into them.
Did many people actually save and sew tags into homemade clothing?
And if they did, why?  Neither of us have come up with a reason.  My
grandmother would have been doing this in Birmingham Alabama in the
1940's to 1950's, and her mother's sewing would have been during the
same time but I do not know where. 

thanks,
Jonica

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On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, jlkelley wrote:

> I and a friend were talking about clothing that we had inherited --
> mine from my grandmother and my friend from her mother.  In both
> cases, even though the garments were handmade by these people (we even
> have the scraps to prove it!), they have store tags sewn into them.
> Did many people actually save and sew tags into homemade clothing? And
> if they did, why?  Neither of us have come up with a reason.  My
> grandmother would have been doing this in Birmingham Alabama in the
> 1940's to 1950's, and her mother's sewing would have been during the
> same time but I do not know where.

I've read about this at least a couple of times in (fictional) stories --
people would sew in a label to make it look as though an item were
store-bought, because having homemade clothes meant you couldn't afford to
buy them. One of the stories I remember involved a girl in high school,
who presumably would have changed clothes in front of other girls in gym
class or similar circumstances; her mother sewed in labels so it wouldn't
be obvious that she was wearing homemade clothes. (The girl in the story
resented this.) Funny how you remember small details like this. I don't
remember anything else about the story.

--Robin

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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This is only a theory, but it could have been for reasons of pride.
Perhaps there was some sort of stigma attached to making your own clothes
at that time and place. Maybe it was more prestigious to have store
bought clothes, perhaps only 'poor people' made their own, and they
wanted to appear to be of a higher social class. 


Karen

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From: "Kate Pinner" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:54:52 -0500
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Many women made their living by doing 'piece work' (my husband's Italian
family did in New Jersey).  Or perhaps they bought the fabric from the store
whose tag they sewed in.  Or the store where the article was bought offered
custom tailoring/dress making -- any left over fabric would have been given
to the purchaser for repairs or whatever.
Just my thoughts on possible reasons.
Kate
----- Original Message -----
From: "jlkelley" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?


> I and a friend were talking about clothing that we had inherited --
> mine from my grandmother and my friend from her mother.  In both
> cases, even though the garments were handmade by these people (we even
> have the scraps to prove it!), they have store tags sewn into them.
> Did many people actually save and sew tags into homemade clothing?
> And if they did, why?  Neither of us have come up with a reason.  My
> grandmother would have been doing this in Birmingham Alabama in the
> 1940's to 1950's, and her mother's sewing would have been during the
> same time but I do not know where.
>
> thanks,
> Jonica
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:04:27 -0500
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Jonica,

People over the past century were known to sew tags into their clothing to
make people think they were store bought.  On the other hand, some people
would try to past off fake designer tags on clothing.  One of the most
famous incidents was the designer Worth's clothing tags.  There is a book,
(can't think of the name) that shows what original worth tags looked like.

I can give you a good example.  Once a lady contacted me about her
Grandmother's Worth Opera Coat/Wrap.  She was looking for someone to sell it
for her. I contacted an appraiser in Texas who specializes in knowing real
Worths VS fake Worths.  The lady sent photos of the wrap and letters from
her Grandmother stating it was a Worth, to the appraiser.  The appraiser
told me that she doubted that it was a real Worth because of the way the tag
was sewed in the garment, placement, and the tag itself was questionable.  I
was informed not to go near it.  High end collectors and appraisers know
this type of things.

I do remember a couple of years ago they were some questionable Kate Spade
merchandise on eBay.  They ended up yanking the auction by demand of the
design firm.

My older children and I grew up wearing hand-sewn clothing.  Since our
clothing did not have tags when growing up, now we can't stand tags in
anything we wear.  We cut ALL tags out.  They itch to us.  My youngest child
has insisted they be cut out since she was a toddler.  We even cut out the
care tags... even designer tags.   When I donated a lot of their clothing to
the Valentine Museum, they asked where were the tags.  I told the curator
that I cut them out.  On the acquisition labels, it states manufacturer
"unknown."  Even when some of their clothing was in an exhibit, the exhibit
tag read "unknown."

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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A buttonhole stitch!  Cool, I even think I've done those ages ago. It's so
spectacular.  One of these days I'm going to set aside a passel o' money
(that US talk for loads and loads of cash) and pay you what you're worth to
make me a gown from your period just to take it out and touch it once in
awhile.

Keep up the awesome work

angela

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] eyecandy for hard times


> Someday maybe you can tell me how you get those lovely little ridges on
the
> outside of your satin stitches. Does that stitch have a name?  You
continue
> to be my inspiration.
>
> Fondly
>
>
> Hi Fondly.
> Well all the ivory "balls" and all the blue forgetmenots is made of
> buttonholestitches, this is the little ridge you see.
> All buttonholestitches goes trough the same hole in the middle, and out on
> the edge of each motiv, very simple!
>
> Bjarne
>
>
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Funny, I just told this story to Susan last night...

I grew up with all hand-made clothes.  I always liked that my clothes didn't
look like anyone else's.  I always thought we were rich to have a nice
wardrobe and to have a large family who loved one another.  Everyone knew I
made my clothes in high school.  I was the one who purchased all the latest
Vogue patterns and made them... sometimes staying up all night sewing to
wear something new to school.

In 11th grade, a classmate who lived in my neighborhood, came up to me and
said, "You are poor as dirt, because you have to make all your own clothes."
This really upset me because we had lost my father two years earlier and we
did have very limited funds.  Sometimes, people need to think before they
speak.

21 years later, I went to my class re-union, in a very expensive
high-fashion dress that my sister picked up in Europe.  Needless to say, the
dress was a knock-out.  I spoke to this girl for a few minutes, and found
out the saga of her life with 4-5 divorces, etc.  I started to say something
about how much her smart remark in high school had hurt me.   Then I
thought... she was not worth it.

I feel like I have lived a very rich life, regardless of how much money I
have had.  People give me clothing all the time... not because I am
poor...because they know I will love and take care of them.  I WILL make
them into something beautiful.

The whole point of my Cyber Cinderella stories is that you do not have to
make a fortune to be beautiful.  Designers loaned me gowns, I purchased one
for $60, and I made one.  ALL of the gowns I have worn to the Balls were
hand-made.  Every Ball, people asked me about the gowns and I showed them
the details of the gown.  I didn't see the guests do that to other people.
The gown that received the most attention from the Ball's guests... the $60
gown I picked up at an antique show, a 1950s Deb gown made by a designer in
Savannah.   I thought... I had the cheapest dress at the ball and received
the most attention for its beauty!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote:
> > I guess I've been too focused on my 
> > Scandinavian/Norwegian research lately to make the connection  
> > medieval=horizontal looms, which  is obviously the case for most other
> > places than here. Up here in this backward little corner of the world
> > horizontal looms don't seem to be on record before the 16th century,
> 
> I think that "different style" does not equal backward. Scandinavian 
> warp weighted looms were used even in the 20th C. They work well for 
> that area. 

I didn't really mean backward in the sense of inferior, only that 
technology that was spreading through the rest of Europe (and indeed 
Sweden and Denmark) can't be proved to have reached Norway before later 
dates. :) This could indicate a lack of professional weavers, or 
possibly just a difference in taste. Of course, the number of textiles 
that appear to have been made on horizontal looms don't _have_ to 
be imported; they could also mean that such looms were in use locally 
and just haven't survived. It's a fair assumption since they've been 
found in Sweden and Denmark - I just don't know of any from Norway 
before later. But in any case I think it's interesting that 
warp-weighted looms stayed in such widespread use in Scandinavia when 
they were abandoned elsewhere. :)

> Barber, in her books on "prehistoric textiles" (both of them) 
> discusses why she thinks certain areas tended to have vertical (such 
> as warp weighted) looms and others had horizontal looms. Interesting 
> reading.

Hey, cool, I just got "Women's Work - the first 20,000 years" in the 
mail from Amazon but haven't read it yet.  If that's one of them, thanks 
for the pointer. :)

Ingrid

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb 16 00:36:17 2003
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From: kat@grendal.rain.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:34:19 -0800
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> I and a friend were talking about clothing that we had inherited --
> mine from my grandmother and my friend from her mother.  In both
> cases, even though the garments were handmade by these people (we even
> have the scraps to prove it!), they have store tags sewn into them.
> Did many people actually save and sew tags into homemade clothing? And
> if they did, why?  Neither of us have come up with a reason.  My
> grandmother would have been doing this in Birmingham Alabama in the
> 1940's to 1950's, and her mother's sewing would have been during the
> same time but I do not know where. 

Some of it may have been due to the same reasons why people seem to 
go for designer labels now: it makes them feel like they are more 
important.

However, in the 1960's when you bought fabric from certain places 
(especially expensive wools), you also received a very nice label 
just like you'd find in "storebought" clothing. I still have a suit I 
made in about 1969 which has the special tag I got with the fabric. 
(It was special ordered from the manufacturer to go with my family 
tartan. I'd had other similar tags when I bought other fabric as 
well.)

Kat



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb 16 01:31:10 2003
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From: "Joan Broneske" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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Children can be cruel, especially girls, and especially in high school.  It
is too bad that some people don't realize the true value behind making
something yourself - the pride of achievement, the creativity, the work that
goes into it and that fact that it is something unique and special - not
cookie cutter, Stepford pop culture.  But, all of us on this list know it ;)



                  ,%%%,
             --==% `%%%,
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                 \_/\ @%%,
                   __@@" %%%--"""-.%,
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                   \]  | /----'.   < `%,
Joan Broneske          ||       `>> >
unicorn@softcom.net    ||       ///`
                       /(      //(
----- Original Message -----
From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?


> Funny, I just told this story to Susan last night...
>
> I grew up with all hand-made clothes.  I always liked that my clothes
didn't
> look like anyone else's.  I always thought we were rich to have a nice
> wardrobe and to have a large family who loved one another.  Everyone knew
I
> made my clothes in high school.  I was the one who purchased all the
latest
> Vogue patterns and made them... sometimes staying up all night sewing to
> wear something new to school.
>
> In 11th grade, a classmate who lived in my neighborhood, came up to me and
> said, "You are poor as dirt, because you have to make all your own
clothes."
> This really upset me because we had lost my father two years earlier and
we
> did have very limited funds.  Sometimes, people need to think before they
> speak.
>
> 21 years later, I went to my class re-union, in a very expensive
> high-fashion dress that my sister picked up in Europe.  Needless to say,
the
> dress was a knock-out.  I spoke to this girl for a few minutes, and found
> out the saga of her life with 4-5 divorces, etc.  I started to say
something
> about how much her smart remark in high school had hurt me.   Then I
> thought... she was not worth it.
>
> I feel like I have lived a very rich life, regardless of how much money I
> have had.  People give me clothing all the time... not because I am
> poor...because they know I will love and take care of them.  I WILL make
> them into something beautiful.
>
> The whole point of my Cyber Cinderella stories is that you do not have to
> make a fortune to be beautiful.  Designers loaned me gowns, I purchased
one
> for $60, and I made one.  ALL of the gowns I have worn to the Balls were
> hand-made.  Every Ball, people asked me about the gowns and I showed them
> the details of the gown.  I didn't see the guests do that to other people.
> The gown that received the most attention from the Ball's guests... the
$60
> gown I picked up at an antique show, a 1950s Deb gown made by a designer
in
> Savannah.   I thought... I had the cheapest dress at the ball and received
> the most attention for its beauty!
>
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb 16 01:45:05 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:42:51 -0500
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I just found this article
http://entertainmentdesignmag.com/ar/show_business_tdf_costume_collection_3/
index.htm

Sorry for the long URL.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb 16 01:48:44 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Something of Interest
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By the way, if you search this website with the keyword "costume" there are
some interesting articles.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "h-costume" 
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 1:42 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Something of Interest


> I just found this article
>
http://entertainmentdesignmag.com/ar/show_business_tdf_costume_collection_3/
> index.htm
>
> Sorry for the long URL.
>
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb 16 01:57:51 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] One more
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This is about computers, costumes & fabrics
http://entertainmentdesignmag.com/ar/show_business_new_kind_rags/index.htm

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb 16 02:14:54 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] LOTR Costume Article
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Okay... I know how much you all love LOTR costumes.  I found an article on
that site about the costumes.  Scroll about halfway down the article to the
costume section.

http://entertainmentdesignmag.com/ar/show_business_hobbit_forming/index.htm


Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: Why did they add tags?
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:07:54 -0500
Status: RO

Hmm.

I remember in the '60's, several of us had moms who sewed. Grandpa used to 
be in the garment industry and would bring home remnants of fabrics and 
trims that Mom would use to make us clothes; our next door neighbor's 
mother used to work for one of the pattern companies and bring her 
discontinued children's patterns for her kids (the oldest two of whom were 
about my sister's and my ages)... Our moms did all right, and I always 
thought it was a cool thing that they thought enough of us to spend the 
time **making  clothes for _us_**. It wasn't until years later that Mom 
commented that she really *had* to make us clothes at that time because 
funds were always tight. At that time, I think, most of my peers were 
brought up to look down on "home-made clothes", and in retrospect I can 
understand how somebody really sensitive to that would have tried to 
recycle labels to make it appear that they weren't so tight that they *had* 
to make clothes -- but I don't recall anybody actually *doing* that at that 
time.

Skipping forward a couple of decades, I have some Vogue patterns from the 
mid 1980's that were sold with labels. (Vogue American Designer patterns 
and I think Vogue Original Design patterns came, at least in theory, with 
one or two labels each. If you bought through a store, you had to ask for 
the label and hope they had it; if you bought directly from Vogue, they 
shipped the appropriate label(s) with the pattern(s).)  Is it possible that 
this, or the labels that came with the fabric that Kat mentioned, are what 
was put into the garments in question? (BTW, I don't see a need to put 
labels into my garments, either; the labels that came with the patterns are 
still sitting in the pattern envelopes. The only garments I've made that 
I've put labels in, well, sometime in the late '70's someone -- I think 
either Mom or one of my more distant relatives -- got me a batch of labels 
that said something like "Original by" with my first and last names on it. 
Those I saved for my own designs, particularly if I was making the garment 
in question for someone else.)


Brenda
webwarren@earthlink.net


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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 05:27:17 -0800 (PST)
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Penny wrote:
> I grew up with all hand-made clothes.  I always
> liked that my clothes didn't
> look like anyone else's.  I always thought we were
> rich to have a nice
> wardrobe and to have a large family who loved one
> another.  

Penny, your point-of-view is what makes costumers
special -- we are 'active' consumers, not 'passive'
ones. We seek our own form of visual expression -- in
our clothing, our art form, our way of seeing the
world. We are not lemmings to end-consumer fashion. A
good many of us cast a jaundiced eye on off-the-rack
clothing because we have an insight -- rare amongst
the average consumers -- into all the design veins
that the current fashion industry refuses to mine. 

I still mourn the generously-cut A-line, tea-length
skirt. I know many women were glad to see the fifties
pass on, but I'd sure love to resurrect that skirt!
The easiest way to do that would be to design and make
my own. And, if I started doing that now, I'd
certainly stick out in a crowd.

And, in a way, the rage for off-the-rack, purchased
clothing has lost its shine. I had a friend once who
used to be a fledgling fashion designer. She made all
her own clothes, and all the other young women in our
office coveted her unique and elegant look, including
me. Ten years later, I still have one of her originals
(an A-line skirt, natch!) and I intend to keep and
wear it forevermore, if my body allows!

-Tasha

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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>However, in the 1960's when you bought fabric from certain places
>(especially expensive wools), you also received a very nice label
>just like you'd find in "storebought" clothing. I still have a suit I
>made in about 1969 which has the special tag I got with the fabric.

Vogue patterns used to come with Vogue labels.  Some older patterns by that 
company have an image of that tag on the front of the pattern envelope.


Kayta

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I'll pitch in and say that, much of the time, women sewed labels/tags into 
their homemade clothing so that it wouldn't look home-made, especially when 
tight on funds.  My grandmother sewed all of my mother and aunt's clothes 
because funds were really tight, especially when my grandfather lost his job. 
 She didn't add labels to my knowledge, but even now it's apparent that my 
mother resented not being able to buy ready-made clothing.  One example being 
that she doesn't want me to make my prom dress (although three of the 
teachers at my school have issued a challenge to me to out-do the dress I 
wore to the formal "Father-Daughter" dance).


> I still mourn the generously-cut A-line, tea-length
> skirt. I know many women were glad to see the fifties
> pass on, but I'd sure love to resurrect that skirt!
> The easiest way to do that would be to design and make
> my own. And, if I started doing that now, I'd
> certainly stick out in a crowd.

I get the feeling that my best friend (a fledgling costumer, and 50's 
clothing fiend) and I would agree with you there!  Being unique is always a 
good thing, especially when it comes to making/designing your own clothes.


> 
> And, in a way, the rage for off-the-rack, purchased
> clothing has lost its shine. I had a friend once who
> used to be a fledgling fashion designer. She made all
> her own clothes, and all the other young women in our
> office coveted her unique and elegant look, including
> me. Ten years later, I still have one of her originals
> (an A-line skirt, natch!) and I intend to keep and
> wear it forevermore, if my body allows!

Ah, no wonder I was able to walk into H&M yesterday and be apathetic about 
their clothing.  I ended up getting a skirt across the hall, at Express, for 
$11.42...but only because it looked like something I've wanted to make!  

Christine

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I'll pitch in and say that, much of the time, women sewed labels/tags into t=
heir homemade clothing so that it wouldn't look home-made, especially when t=
ight on funds.  My grandmother sewed all of my mother and aunt's clothe=
s because funds were really tight, especially when my grandfather lost his j=
ob.  She didn't add labels to my knowledge, but even now it's apparent=20=
that my mother resented not being able to buy ready-made clothing.  One=
 example being that she doesn't want me to make my prom dress (although thre=
e of the teachers at my school have issued a challenge to me to out-do the d=
ress I wore to the formal "Father-Daughter" dance).






I still mourn the generously-cut A-line, tea-length

skirt. I know many women were glad to see the fifties

pass on, but I'd sure love to resurrect that skirt!

The easiest way to do that would be to design and make

my own. And, if I started doing that now, I'd

certainly stick out in a crowd.




I get the feeling that my be=
st friend (a fledgling costumer, and 50's clothing fiend) and I would agree=20=
with you there!  Being unique is always a good thing, especially when i=
t comes to making/designing your own clothes.








And, in a way, the rage for off-the-rack, purchased

clothing has lost its shine. I had a friend once who

used to be a fledgling fashion designer. She made all

her own clothes, and all the other young women in our

office coveted her unique and elegant look, including

me. Ten years later, I still have one of her originals

(an A-line skirt, natch!) and I intend to keep and

wear it forevermore, if my body allows!




Ah, no wonder I was able to walk into H&M yesterday and be apathetic abo=
ut their clothing.  I ended up getting a skirt across the hall, at Expr=
ess, for $11.42...but only because it looked like something I've wanted to m=
ake!  



Christine

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb 16 11:38:09 2003
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Jonica wrote:

<>

Sorry about the delay in posting to this, but I wanted
to check with a primary source (my mom). According to
her, people would take the label out of a nice
store-bought garment when it was worn out, and sew it
into a new garment that was similar. This was most
common with suit jackets and costs, because you might
take that off and someone would see the inside label.
She also said that this seemed to be more common
during the 1930s and '40s, when more people made their
own clothes. She said she never did it herself,
because everybody wore the same things to school (she
went to parochial school and wore uniforms), but a
couple of the girls in her neighborhood did.

Another odd thing about labels: While not a standard
practice, it was not unknown for good fur coats to
have the label sewn in upside-down; that way, when you
laid the coat across the back of a chair, people could
read the label. I've seen several this way, from
different furriers and different time periods (1940s -
1960s).

Dawn
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] My UK hat supplier has a web site now
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Oh!! Somewhere I can get an 18th century straw hat, without mailing it 
from the US.   That's a real incentive to slim back into my wedding 
dress!

Has she been at the Re-enactors' Market in previous years?  I'm sure I 
haven't seen her, unless she had only felt hats on display.  We had been 
looking for straw hats for ages, until we found some at Hounslow last 
year.

And I can send one of my friends to her for a Robin Hood hat.

Thanks Nicole!

Jean


N Kipar  wrote
>Katherine Tindle from Kitty Hats has a web site now, so ikn case anyone in the
>UK is looking for well made lovely hats (and any kind one can think of,
>including one's own ideas) here it is: http://www.kittyhats.co.uk/
>
>I did not get the very expensive and super Officer's hat for Ben for her, the
>posh stuff I leave to a theatrical master hat maker in London, but Katherine
>does great hats for very reasonable money.
>
>Nicole
>
>=====
>Nicole Kipar M.A.
>URL: http://www.kipar.org/
>Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
>__________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Jamestown dig article on CNN
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> 
> From: leigh tartaglio 
> Date: 2003/02/13 Thu AM 12:03:58 EST
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jamestown dig article on CNN
> 
> Hi, Gwyn. I have met "Wild Bill" Kelso. It seems a shame that he feels
> that he has to "talk down" to the public, but, like Ivor Hume was for
> Martin's Hundred, is the de-facto spokesman for the James Fort dig.
> Regarding clothing finds, there is no textile evidence remaining that I
> know of in any of the Virginia sites (Jamestown, Martin's, Flowerdew,
> etc.) although there are plenty of smaller evidencial items (buttons,
> buckles, pins, a hairdressing item from Martin's, etc.). I will ask for
> some info when I speak to my associates down there. They are currently
> off-line, due to the loss of their computer in a flood. Ron C., you are
> down there, do you see Terry Bond at all around town? I missed Wicklow
> (darned work!).  Cheers, Mike T.


    I do see Terry occasionally, though I know him more through mutual friends than by being friends.  Wicklow sounds like fun, bad weekend for me, and I don't really belong to any of the organizations that were there. I would like to see that change though.

Cheers,
Ron

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wicklow
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Mike T.: When you mention Wicklow in your post, are you referring to Wicklow, 
Ireland?  If so, were you there on costume business?  Please elaborate!
Thanks,
Julia

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Mike T.: When you mention Wicklow in your post, are yo=
u referring to Wicklow, Ireland?  If so, were you there on costume busi=
ness?  Please elaborate!

Thanks,

Julia

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb 16 13:44:57 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] My UK hat supplier has a web site now
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Yes she is always at the (formerly Oxford) market which is now in Coventry.
Give her a tinkle beforehand and I am sure she'll try to have what you want.

Nicole

 --- Jean Waddie  wrote: > Oh!! Somewhere I can
get an 18th century straw hat, without mailing it 
> from the US.   That's a real incentive to slim back into my wedding 
> dress!
> 
> Has she been at the Re-enactors' Market in previous years?  I'm sure I 
> haven't seen her, unless she had only felt hats on display.  We had been 
> looking for straw hats for ages, until we found some at Hounslow last 
> year.
> 
> And I can send one of my friends to her for a Robin Hood hat.
> 
> Thanks Nicole!
> 
> Jean
> 
> 
> N Kipar  wrote
> >Katherine Tindle from Kitty Hats has a web site now, so ikn case anyone in
> the
> >UK is looking for well made lovely hats (and any kind one can think of,
> >including one's own ideas) here it is: http://www.kittyhats.co.uk/
> >
> >I did not get the very expensive and super Officer's hat for Ben for her,
> the
> >posh stuff I leave to a theatrical master hat maker in London, but Katherine
> >does great hats for very reasonable money.
> >
> >Nicole
> >
> >=====
> >Nicole Kipar M.A.
> >URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> >Email: nicole@kipar.org
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> >http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> >_______________________________________________
> >h-costume mailing list
> >h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> -- 
> Jean Waddie
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

__________________________________________________
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Subject: [h-cost] does anyone know thew details on this book
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I seem to recall and h-costuem discussion on an extensive new reference book 
from the U.K. scheduled to come out sometime in early 2003 - a kind of 
encyclopedia of fashion/costume history, maybe 2 volumes, that was slated to 
cost something like $200.  Does anyone know the title, author or publisher?
Thanks,
Julia A.

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I seem to recall and h-costuem discussion on an extens=
ive new reference book from the U.K. scheduled to come out sometime in early=
 2003 - a kind of encyclopedia of fashion/costume history, maybe 2 volumes,=20=
that was slated to cost something like $200.  Does anyone know the titl=
e, author or publisher?

Thanks,

Julia A.

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>However, in the 1960's when you bought fabric from
certain places
>(especially expensive wools), you also received a
very nice label
>just like you'd find in "storebought" clothing. I
still have a suit I
>made in about 1969 which has the special tag I got
with the fabric.

Vogue patterns used to come with Vogue labels.  Some
older patterns by 
that 
company have an image of that tag on the front of the
pattern envelope.

And, IIRC, Pendleton has always given special tags
that say something about "made from Pendleton wool"
when you bought real Pendleton fabric. Sort of made up
for paying so much for the fabric.

Dawn

=====
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Vallejo, CA, USA
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<>


You go, girl!

Each year, a group of teacher at my school give an
award to the young lady able to spend the least amount
of money on the prom. Every year for the past 5 years,
it's been won by someone who has made her own prom
dress, and every year, she's been a real stunner. The
all-time winner was a young lady a few years ago who
spent less than $50 on her dress, showed up in a
gorgeous silk shantung sheath with matching jacket,
and 10 weeks later walked across the graduation stage
as our salutatorian.

Ask your mom if it will make her feel better if she
just gives you the cash for that expensive prom dress,
and you can keep the difference. ;-)

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sun Feb 16 18:36:25 2003
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In a message dated 2/16/03 5:11:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
dme_maud@pacbell.net writes:

> Each year, a group of teacher at my school give an
> award to the young lady able to spend the least amount
> of money on the prom. Every year for the past 5 years,
> it's been won by someone who has made her own prom
> dress, and every year, she's been a real stunner. The
> all-time winner was a young lady a few years ago who
> spent less than $50 on her dress, showed up in a
> gorgeous silk shantung sheath with matching jacket,
> and 10 weeks later walked across the graduation stage
> as our salutatorian.
> 
Well, I doubt that my dress would cost *less*, really, as I want to re-create 
the "Pastel Rainbow" Star Wars Episode II dress that Senator Padme Naberrie 
wears.  I'll be buying lots of silk, and dyeing it myself.  But who knows, 
maybe it will be less expensive.  



> Ask your mom if it will make her feel better if she
> just gives you the cash for that expensive prom dress,
> and you can keep the difference. ;-)
> 
Ah, if only!  I'd point out the most expensive prom dress in the rack!

Christine


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In a message dated 2/16/03 5:11:57 PM Eastern Standard=
 Time, dme_maud@pacbell.net writes:




Each year, a group of teacher at my school give an

award to the young lady able to spend the least amount

of money on the prom. Every year for the past 5 years,

it's been won by someone who has made her own prom

dress, and every year, she's been a real stunner. The

all-time winner was a young lady a few years ago who

spent less than $50 on her dress, showed up in a

gorgeous silk shantung sheath with matching jacket,

and 10 weeks later walked across the graduation stage

as our salutatorian.




Well, I doubt that my dress would cost *less*, really, as I want to re-creat=
e the "Pastel Rainbow" Star Wars Episode II dress that Senator Padme Naberri=
e wears.  I'll be buying lots of silk, and dyeing it myself.  But=20=
who knows, maybe it will be less expensive.  








Ask your mom if it will make he=
r feel better if she

just gives you the cash for that expensive prom dress,

and you can keep the difference. ;-)




Ah, if only!  I'd point out the most expensive prom dress in the rack!<=
BR>


Christine




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Hi. The Wicklow event I mentioned was, sadly, not in Ireland. It was a
reenactment weekend in Williamsburg, Va. that recreated a military
scenario that occured between Irish and English troops near Wicklow in
1641 or 1642 (I don't remember exactly). The only costume context to
which I can relate it is that folks that were there (I wasn't) got a
chance to try out their winter clothing, as it was rather damp and
chilly. We usually reenact wearing woolen clothing, and usually the
weather is warm, which prompts people to ask us if we are warm
(especially when we're sweating ;) ). Sorry I couldn't announce any good
costume related stuff from Ireland.  Mike T.

JAzo478796@aol.com wrote:

> Mike T.: When you mention Wicklow in your post, are you referring to
> Wicklow, Ireland?  If so, were you there on costume business?  Please
> elaborate!
> Thanks,
> Julia

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Hi. The Wicklow event I mentioned was, sadly, not in Ireland. It was a
reenactment weekend in Williamsburg, Va. that recreated a military scenario
that occured between Irish and English troops near Wicklow in 1641 or 1642
(I don't remember exactly). The only costume context to which I can relate
it is that folks that were there (I wasn't) got a chance to try out their
winter clothing, as it was rather damp and chilly. We usually reenact wearing
woolen clothing, and usually the weather is warm, which prompts people
to ask us if we are warm (especially when we're sweating ;) ). Sorry I
couldn't announce any good costume related stuff from Ireland.  Mike
T.

JAzo478796@aol.com wrote:

Mike T.: When you
mention Wicklow in your post, are you referring to Wicklow, Ireland? 
If so, were you there on costume business?  Please elaborate!

Thanks,

Julia



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Mike T:
Thanks anyway!

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Mike T:

Thanks anyway!

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] does anyone know thew details on this book
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 --- JAzo478796@aol.com wrote: > I seem to recall and
h-costuem discussion on an
> extensive new reference book 
> from the U.K. scheduled to come out sometime in
> early 2003 - a kind of 
> encyclopedia of fashion/costume history, maybe 2
> volumes, that was slated to 
> cost something like $200.  Does anyone know the
> title, author or publisher?


The one I'm remembering and bookmarked is about
textiles, not fashion/costume history, but just in
case it's the one you want, it's a two-volume set
called "The Cambridge History of Western Textiles",
for 200 Bristish pounds, not US dollars. It's due to
be published in April. You can find it here:




Bella

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Thank you, Bella!  You're terrific!  This is just what I was referring to.
Best,
Julia

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Thank you, Bella!  Y=
ou're terrific!  This is just what I was referring to.

Best,

Julia

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 --- JAzo478796@aol.com wrote: > Thank you, Bella! 
You're terrific!  This is just
> what I was referring to.


You're welcome Julia. I bookmarked it because I would
really love to have it - but it converts to $543
Australian Dollars, which is a bit steep for me. Might
save up for it though. :)


Bella

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From: "Wanda Pease" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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When my mother and I used to go to the Pendleton outlet in Pendleton, Oregon
not far from where I lived, there was always a small box with Pendleton
labels in it.

I must admit never having found the time or inclination to look at the
insides of my classmates clothes when I was in school.  Perhaps that is why
I'm part of this group of "poorly socialized" geeks (big grin)?

Regina Romsey

> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of kat@grendal.rain.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 9:34 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
>
>
>
> > I and a friend were talking about clothing that we had inherited --
> > mine from my grandmother and my friend from her mother.  In both
> > cases, even though the garments were handmade by these people (we even
> > have the scraps to prove it!), they have store tags sewn into them.
> > Did many people actually save and sew tags into homemade clothing? And
> > if they did, why?  Neither of us have come up with a reason.  My
> > grandmother would have been doing this in Birmingham Alabama in the
> > 1940's to 1950's, and her mother's sewing would have been during the
> > same time but I do not know where.
>
> Some of it may have been due to the same reasons why people seem to
> go for designer labels now: it makes them feel like they are more
> important.
>
> However, in the 1960's when you bought fabric from certain places
> (especially expensive wools), you also received a very nice label
> just like you'd find in "storebought" clothing. I still have a suit I
> made in about 1969 which has the special tag I got with the fabric.
> (It was special ordered from the manufacturer to go with my family
> tartan. I'd had other similar tags when I bought other fabric as
> well.)
>
> Kat
> 
>
>
> ______________________
>


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My boyfriend's mother sewed Levi's tags to homemade jeans so her kids
wouldn't complain about not having "real" jeans :-)
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Lovely!  What sort of stitches did you use?  
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I
>  Someday maybe you can tell me how you get those lovely little ridges on the
>  outside of your satin stitches. Does that stitch have a name?  You continue
>  to be my inspiration.
>  
>  Fondly
>  
>  
>  Hi Fondly.
>  Well all the ivory "balls" and all the blue forgetmenots is made of
>  buttonholestitches, this is the little ridge you see.
>  All buttonholestitches goes trough the same hole in the middle, and out on
>  the edge of each motiv, very simple!
>  
>  Bjarne

Oh, I'm behind; you already answered my question on the stitch!  Thank you!  
:)
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References: <200302050310.h153ADY08437@adalia.ucdavis.edu> <5.2.0.9.2.20030205102947.00b5ae38@blue.ucdavis.edu>
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Maybe the same size as the skeins that DMC does? That way people'd be
more familiar with the rough-guesstimate of how much floss they wanted. 
Of course, then there's somebody like me, who buys her most frequently
used colors in 33-yd. skeins.  6 or 12 at a time .
--sue

Gwyn Carnegie wrote:
> 
> I thought I'd add some images of the dye returns from the recipes and
> I discovered that I have way too much silk and wool floss in certain
> colors left over from my initial project. I suppose I'll sell off the
> extras but how much to put in a skein?  The floss is 6 stranded and I
> was working in 20 yds skeins. 20 yds is a lot even for a Bjarne-sized
> project. Do any of you embellishment pros have a recommendation as to
> what to cut down the jumbo skeins too?
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Hey, Cassandra...what are the dates/country/etc. for that cool shirt?
--sue, happy blackwork fiend....

Cassandra Greer wrote:
> 
> HI!
> 
> I have scanned and published some new pictures on my Mac site:
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/cassandragreer/PhotoAlbum7.html
> 
> I had promised to scan some Blackwork for someone - and totally forgot - but
> here it is finally.
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 --- Talia  wrote: > Just for info's sake..."karat" is >>used when referring to gold and "carat" is
>> used when referring to the weight of gemstones. They're actually two
>> completely different meanings.
> 
and Nicole wrote:
>I am not a native English speaker Talia, as I have repeatedly said, to me >carat and karat are the same, because in Germany we use Karat.
>It was a spelling mistake. Apparently.

Well, I am a native English speaker and I've never seen "carat" spelled with a "k" , nor is it in the dictionary I have to hand. It seems to be a distinction that Americans make but the British don't.



Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Adapting readymade shift
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Eeep, Kate, I'm sorry but that mail got kind of lost in my inbox. You don't
need to stabilise the gathers, I always gather my shift neckline onto a band,
and I sometimes add a drawstring into the band just in case I have to wear it a
little tighter, but it isn'treally necessary.

Nicole

 --- Kate M Bunting  wrote: > Last season I bought
myself an off-the-peg linen shift, rather than spend
> ages tracking down real linen. However, it had drawstrings at neck and
> wrists, which this list has assured me is inauthentic for the mid-17th
> century. As one of my winter projects I decided to alter it.
>  I've gathered the sleeves onto narrow wristbands and made eyelet holes to
> take ribbons, following Nicole's suggestion. (As I'm small, there's plenty of
> spare fabric.) Now I'm debating the best way to treat the neckline, which I
> want to leave moderately low. I'd thought of gathering it onto a similar
> band, with a small front opening closed by a ribbon, but now I'm wondering if
> it would be better to stabilise the gathers with a bias binding which would
> not show? Has anyone any suggestions?
> 
> Kate Bunting
> Library, University of Derby
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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I thought it was funny that no-one had replied, given the strong opinions that  had been expressed in the past on this topic!
When I came to look more closely, I found the neckline had quite a substantial casing sewn on to it (the sleeves had just had the drawstrings run through the hems). Rather than unpick it all, I ran a strong thread through the casing, making a stitch at intervals to hold the gathers in place, and made a small front opening with a buttonhole either side. I got some narrow pink ribbon to thread through the buttonholes. I'm doing a living history event at Lichfield in a fortnight's time, so I'll try it out then.

Thanks for your comments,
Kate

>>> nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com 02/17/03 10:36am >>>
Eeep, Kate, I'm sorry but that mail got kind of lost in my inbox. You don't
need to stabilise the gathers, I always gather my shift neckline onto a band,
and I sometimes add a drawstring into the band just in case I have to wear it a
little tighter, but it isn'treally necessary.

Nicole

 --- Kate M Bunting  wrote: > Last season I bought
myself an off-the-peg linen shift, rather than spend
> ages tracking down real linen. However, it had drawstrings at neck and
> wrists, which this list has assured me is inauthentic for the mid-17th
> century. As one of my winter projects I decided to alter it.
>  I've gathered the sleeves onto narrow wristbands and made eyelet holes to
> take ribbons, following Nicole's suggestion. (As I'm small, there's plenty of
> spare fabric.) Now I'm debating the best way to treat the neckline, which I
> want to leave moderately low. I'd thought of gathering it onto a similar
> band, with a small front opening closed by a ribbon, but now I'm wondering if
> it would be better to stabilise the gathers with a bias binding which would
> not show? Has anyone any suggestions?
> 
> Kate Bunting
> Library, University of Derby


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?Bella?=  wrote:
>
> > > Modern gold alloys are usually made with nickle,
> > occasionally with palladium.
> > > White gold has a higher percentage. 
> 
> There really is nothing "modern" about yellow gold. If
> there is a "modern" gold, it's more likely to be white
> gold. The colour of the resulting gold item depends on
> the alloys used. Rose gold has a high percentage of
> copper in it, so, in period, reddish gold probably had
> more to do with which metals were available locally,
> then any level of "purity". 

I think we're running up against language problems again.  The "red gold"
that both welsh and irish sources talk about is almost pure.  It's an oddity
of the language.  It's almost orange, which is _not_ like the color found
in rose gold, which has a slightly pinkish tone.  For "red gold" think an
orange-toned yellow or the shade of hair that's sometimes called strawberry
blonde.  The shades described by color words in different languages don't
always translate cleanly.  The word in irish can be anything from 24K gold
to neon orange...as a friend who was doing embroidery on stepdancing dresses
found out.  

Adding paladium instead of nickel to gold alloys is definitely modern, and
mostly a response to the problem of hypersensitivity reactions to nickle.
And for what it's worth, the gold plated jewelry we were talking about 
orignally doesn't look any _more_ gold than the renaissance and jacobean
pieces that are photographed in one my books here at home.  I'll go find
the book and post title and author later.  It's almost 4am and just not the
hour to start rummaging through my bookshelves.  

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Modern gold (was Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas)
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:40:23 -0500
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So, is burnished gold this orange gold or of the "tarnished" sort (from some
other additive) as one might find with oxidized silver?
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Thompson-Herbert" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Modern gold (was Garnet pendant from Pewter Replicas)


>
> ?Bella?=  wrote:
> >
> > > > Modern gold alloys are usually made with nickle,
> > > occasionally with palladium.
> > > > White gold has a higher percentage.
> >
> > There really is nothing "modern" about yellow gold. If
> > there is a "modern" gold, it's more likely to be white
> > gold. The colour of the resulting gold item depends on
> > the alloys used. Rose gold has a high percentage of
> > copper in it, so, in period, reddish gold probably had
> > more to do with which metals were available locally,
> > then any level of "purity".
>
> I think we're running up against language problems again.  The "red gold"
> that both welsh and irish sources talk about is almost pure.  It's an
oddity
> of the language.  It's almost orange, which is _not_ like the color found
> in rose gold, which has a slightly pinkish tone.  For "red gold" think an
> orange-toned yellow or the shade of hair that's sometimes called
strawberry
> blonde.  The shades described by color words in different languages don't
> always translate cleanly.  The word in irish can be anything from 24K gold
> to neon orange...as a friend who was doing embroidery on stepdancing
dresses
> found out.
>
> Adding paladium instead of nickel to gold alloys is definitely modern, and
> mostly a response to the problem of hypersensitivity reactions to nickle.
> And for what it's worth, the gold plated jewelry we were talking about
> orignally doesn't look any _more_ gold than the renaissance and jacobean
> pieces that are photographed in one my books here at home.  I'll go find
> the book and post title and author later.  It's almost 4am and just not
the
> hour to start rummaging through my bookshelves.
>
> Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com       KoX 1995, SP4
> Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
> Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
> "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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At 10:29 PM -0800 2/15/03, Joan Broneske wrote:
>Children can be cruel, especially girls, and especially in high school.  It
>is too bad that some people don't realize the true value behind making
>something yourself - the pride of achievement, the creativity, the work that
>goes into it and that fact that it is something unique and special - not
>cookie cutter, Stepford pop culture.  But, all of us on this list know it ;)

My own experience in school is that it never had anything to do with 
the abstract value of what they chose to use to pick on you -- they 
just worked at it until they found some angle that worked.  Logic 
never had anything to do with it.  Being oblivious was about the only 
sure defense, but it had its own repercussions eventually.

Heather
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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This is tangential to the original question, but relevant to sewing 
tags in home-made clothing.  I still have a stack of tags that my 
grandmother gave me as a Christmas present when I was a girl -- you 
could order custom tags with someone's name woven in (and an 
inscription like "specially hand-made by ..." or something similar). 
I don't put them in historic clothing, for obvious reasons, and I 
always feel like I should save them for garments I'm making for 
someone else, but every once in a while when I do a special project, 
I add my very own 'designer label' to it, just because.  (I suppose 
that expanding that "just because" is what this thread's all about, 
but my reasons are sort of fuzzy and indistinct.  Most of it is 
because I _have_ the labels and figure I should do _something_ with 
them.  I wouldn't have gone out and ordered something like this 
myself, although I _have_ been known to machine-embroider my 
signature on a pants pocket a  time or two ... just because.)

Heather
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Modern gold
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:33:16 -0500
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24K gold is very, very yellow, to the point that it almost looks fake 
to modern eyes... except that there's really no faking that rich 
color. 22K is almost that yellow. The usual alloy adds some silver 
and a bit of copper to 22K, mostly for strength. 24K is so soft that 
it's not really usable, and 22K is pretty soft, too.

There are a vast number of 18K alloys, even in yellow gold. They are 
alloyed for both color(s) and various working properties. Hoover and 
Strong, a major precious metals refinery and supplier, carries at 
least 3 18K yellow alloys: regular (a pale yellow compared to 22 or 
24K), a heat-treatable one with much the same color, and "royal" 
which has a pale greenish tinge I think is nasty but many people 
adore. They also carry green (mostly alloyed with silver), pink (lots 
of copper), peach (secret formula but it sounds pretty), and both 
nickel and palladium white. Nickel white is lots cheaper than 
palladium white (since palladium usually costs similarly to gold), 
and is whiter, but many are allergic plus it is very difficult to 
work with since it's brittle and cracks at any provocation. Palladium 
white (also called grey gold and setter's white) is a darker grey but 
quite nice to work with and does not cause allergies.

Nickel is not usually used in anything except nickel white, since it 
causes a very undesirable over-hardness and brittleness as well as 
allergic reactions.

Of course, as long as the gold content itself meets the labeled 
amount, the rest of the metals used can be anything chemically 
possible. This is similar to sterling silver, which is usually 
alloyed with copper, but as long as it's 92.5% silver it's sterling. 
I know I can't wear some sterling earwires; I assume they've been 
alloyed with something odd.

Technically, "burnished gold"  would be a gold (pure or alloy) 
finished by burnishing, which is using a mirror-polished instrument 
to press and rub the surface of metal until it, too, has a mirror 
shine. It compacts the surface layers and hardens them, to make the 
surface more resistant to scratching or wear. This is a metalsmith's 
definition, though, and it may have a different colloquial meaning.

I'm a metalsmith who is fascinated with gold alloying, and who will 
get seriously into it just as soon as I win the lottery or something! 
I do have plans to experiment with depletion gilding one day fairly 
soon. In this one takes a gold alloy and with repeated heatings and 
acid baths dissolves away all non-gold metals on the surface, 
resulting in a strong alloyed interior covered with a layer of pure 
24K gold. If this doesn't give me the results I need (I need a 
YELLOW! gold surface on a stronger metal sheet), there's an old 
technique I've read about that's not too toxic that dissolves 
everything off the surface then re-deposits pure gold on i, 
supposedly with a nice texture, too, used a lot in Victorian times.

-Amanda Fisher
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: custom made tags Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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 --- Heather Rose Jones  wrote: > 
> them.  I wouldn't have gone out and ordered something like this 
> myself, although I _have_ been known to machine-embroider my 
> signature on a pants pocket a  time or two ... just because.)

I did, I went and ordered my own labels when I was in my early/mid twenties.
Black ones and white ones, both embroidered in gold, the white ones for shirts.
They read 'Marquis de Kipar'
*LOL*
I still stick them into bits I make if I remember.

I had to rip all the labels out of my mantua and fontange, Ninya had put all
her 'Ninya Mikhaila' labels into a historic costume! AAAHHRRGHHH! ;-)

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: Cin 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
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>This is only a theory, but it could have been for reasons 
>of pride.  Perhaps there was some sort of stigma ...

As good a tale as any, I suppose.  I've been sewing
commercial tags into my historical creations for years.  It
amuses me to see "Arrow Shirts" on an early shirt or
"Jockey" in a medieval doublet.  Once I put a "Liz
Claybourne" tag in a 1902 wedding dress I made for a
friend.  The bride was so angry!  She snatched the bodice,
ripped out the Liz label and put mine in, with some comment
like "when my daughter grows up to wear this she will know
its *not* commercial."
My favorite tag, and I dont know what to put it in, reads
"Joyful Impression -- we produce it for whole human
beings".  (Isnt Japan wonderful!)

=====
--cin
Cynthia
hysteria95126@yahoo.com

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 17 15:20:53 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] My first Bobbin Lace Class
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:20:51 +0100
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Dear Saragrace.
I am so ashamed because i forgot to answer your email.
This is wonderfull that you have taken a class. 
I know that you will love it and let me warn you a little:
This will steal a lot of your time. But have fun!!!

Bjarne



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 4:17 AM
Subject: [h-cost] My first Bobbin Lace Class


> Bjarne, I thought of you today.  I took my first bobbin lace class.  I
> have poor spatial orientation, but I managed through it as long as I
> closed my eyes!.  It was fun.  I am noodling on how to make my first
> pillow!
> 
> Sg
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 17 16:52:42 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Late Victorian Hats- have to share
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I am forwarding this message from Marna about her next online class.  The
class starts on Monday, Feb. 24.

I just have to share- yesterday evening I finished my "classroom example"
bonnet for the next class I am teaching at www.costumeclassroom.com . I
think it turned out exceptionally well especially considering the frame I
started with was one of the cheap 89 cent straws you can buy at Hobby Lobby
in the floral section.  Would you like to see it?- my favorite time period
is in the 1880's so that is what this particular hat represents.
http://shootingstarhistory.com/classhat.html

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C2D6A4.BB985B20
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I am forwarding this message from Marna about her next=20
online class.  The class starts on Monday, Feb. 24.


 


I just have to share- yesterday evening =
I finished=20
my "classroom example" bonnet for the next class I am teaching at =
www.costumeclassroom.com=20
. I think it turned out exceptionally well especially considering the =
frame I=20
started with was one of the cheap 89 cent straws you can buy at Hobby =
Lobby in=20
the floral section.  Would you like to see it?- my favorite time =
period is=20
in the 1880's so that is what this particular hat =
represents.
http://shootingstarhistory.com/classhat.html


 


Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume =
Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =

http://www.costumeclassroom.com<=
/A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co=
m


 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 17 17:02:07 2003
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	for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:01:22 -0800
From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] My first Bobbin Lace Class
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No problem, it has been a busy weekend.  I know you are always busy too.
I am really looking forward to making my own pillow!

Sg

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 1:21 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] My first Bobbin Lace Class

Dear Saragrace.
I am so ashamed because i forgot to answer your email.
This is wonderfull that you have taken a class. 
I know that you will love it and let me warn you a little:
This will steal a lot of your time. But have fun!!!

Bjarne



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "H-Costume@Indra. Com" 
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 4:17 AM
Subject: [h-cost] My first Bobbin Lace Class


> Bjarne, I thought of you today.  I took my first bobbin lace class.  I
> have poor spatial orientation, but I managed through it as long as I
> closed my eyes!.  It was fun.  I am noodling on how to make my first
> pillow!
> 
> Sg
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 18 09:08:39 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] update with waistcoat pictures
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Hello.
It is very quiet on the list today, only got a few posts. I had 2 days off
work, and used the days with making embroidered buttons for the waistcoat.
You can follow the work here!  There still is a long way before it is
finished, because i am handstitching the whole suit by hand, the only
machine sewing i have used is zig-zag-ing the edges of the buttons. But
there also is more than a month back before i am using it.
Bjarne

www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery




http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 18 09:09:59 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Buttons for waistcoat.
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:13:30 +0100
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Sorry the URL was wrong.................. i am two quicly
sometimes..............


www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.html

This should work,

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 18 09:22:58 2003
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From: "Kate M Bunting" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Buttons for waistcoat.
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Sorry Bjarne, it doesn't.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 02/18/03 02:13pm >>>
Sorry the URL was wrong.................. i am two quicly
sometimes..............


www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.html 

This should work,

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk 

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 18 09:34:55 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:34:20 -0700
Status: RO

This link works for me:  http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery
It is really neat to see what goes into it all-thanks for the 'behind
the scene' pictures!

Sg



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Cassandra,
I got my book about the time you wrote this email, but stupidly missed it.

I have a favor to ask -- could you send me another book?  A friend is 
heavily lusting over mine.  Or is it too late?

Thanks,
Mara Riley

(P.S. I also changed email addresses; I was at lindo@radix.net'.)



At 04:26 PM 1/14/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>HI All!
>
>I would like to ask all those who ordered a catalog through me to please
>send me a quick mail and let me know if you got it! For some it has been up
>to 6 weeks since they ordered. I did say it could take up to 8 weeks since
>the books went to the States by slow boat. As far as I know all the
>Europeans got theirs (since there usually is not a boat necessary in the
>delivery ;) - if not let me know! All this is to check to see if doing it
>through me is a viable option in getting this really cool book! I don't want
>to have any more sent until people in the States start getting theirs.
>
>Cass :)
>
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Subject: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
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Hi,
I'll be making (eventually) a 1943 dress (vintage vogue pattern). What kind
of underwear should be worn with that?
Thanks!
Audrey
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:51:15 -0600
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let me see if I correctly remember what My mom mentioned;
hose, 
garters, 
garter belt
nearly rigid girdle
slip 
camisole 
long line bra (also nearly rigid)
then the outfit, shoes
perfume 
makeup 
and pearls.

just to leave the house.
(thank you lord for sparing me that!)
Betsy
hope this was helpful..

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:33 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?


Hi,
I'll be making (eventually) a 1943 dress (vintage vogue pattern). What kind
of underwear should be worn with that?
Thanks!
Audrey
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Just to update on the Estrella War---the rest of us who went out for it---got a repreive from the rain after friday morning---for the rest of the War. We had very nice weather in which to dry out our soggy clothes, rugs, etc:)  There were all sorts of interesting arts and sciences classes---as well as some very nice displays of  people's work. The metal thread embroidery samples really caught my eye(that being a subject dear to my heart:)There was a lady with particularly beautiful gold bullion work done in 16th century style motifs--worked on the lid of a little wooden box--as well as another who did an impressive Russian headress in gold threads and tiny freshwater pearls--looked like it could have come from the Catherine the Great exhibit that came thru here a few years back. Sorry I got there too late to take your class Saragrace---
Albra--(still unpacking and washing  up everything  from the trip)
 Saragrace Knauf  wrote:Just thought I'd let all you folks 'stuck' at home away from War that it
is absolutely MISERABLE out there!! It has been rainin' cats and dogs
all night and today. I just taught my class and bagged it home to where
it was warm and dry!

Sg


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---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
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Just to update on the Estrella War---the rest of us who went out for it---got a repreive from the rain after friday morning---for the rest of the War. We had very nice weather in which to dry out our soggy clothes, rugs, etc:)  There were all sorts of interesting arts and sciences classes---as well as some very nice displays of  people's work. The metal thread embroidery samples really caught my eye(that being a subject dear to my heart:)There was a lady with particularly beautiful gold bullion work done in 16th century style motifs--worked on the lid of a little wooden box--as well as another who did an impressive Russian headress in gold threads and tiny freshwater pearls--looked like it could have come from the Catherine the Great exhibit that came thru here a few years back. Sorry I got there too late to take your class Saragrace---

Albra--(still unpacking and washing  up everything  from the trip)

 Saragrace Knauf <saragrace@earthlink.net> wrote:

Just thought I'd let all you folks 'stuck' at home away from War that it
is absolutely MISERABLE out there!! It has been rainin' cats and dogs
all night and today. I just taught my class and bagged it home to where
it was warm and dry!

Sg


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Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 18 15:01:51 2003
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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:53:35 +0000
Status: RO

I'm not sure if this is a problem in translation or just my ignorance of 
how these things go together - garters and garter belt??

In Britain, garters are tied or elasticated bands that you wear just 
below the top of your stockings (hose) to keep them up.
I thought a garter belt translated to a suspender belt - an item that 
goes round the waist/hips with straps hanging down that fix with a 
little clip thingy to the tops of your stockings, removing the need for 
garters.

So why, or how, do you wear both together?

Jean


Betsy Marshall  wrote
>let me see if I correctly remember what My mom mentioned;
>hose,
>garters,
>garter belt
>nearly rigid girdle
>slip
>camisole
>long line bra (also nearly rigid)
>then the outfit, shoes
>perfume
>makeup
>and pearls.
>
>just to leave the house.
>(thank you lord for sparing me that!)
>Betsy
>hope this was helpful..
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
>Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin
>Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:33 AM
>To: h-costume@indra.com
>Subject: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
>
>
>Hi,
>I'll be making (eventually) a 1943 dress (vintage vogue pattern). What kind
>of underwear should be worn with that?
>Thanks!
>Audrey
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
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-- 
Jean Waddie
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:27:03 -0800
Status: RO


>>let me see if I correctly remember what My mom mentioned;
>>hose,
>>garters,
>>garter belt

It would have been garters or a garter belt, not both.  I believe garters
were considered to be rather old fashioned by this point.

>>nearly rigid girdle

Not always, especially in the case of a young shapely woman, but certainly
expected of any woman with a bit extra. 

>>slip
>>camisole

More likely a full slip rther than a camisole and half slip

>>long line bra (also nearly rigid)

Long line bras were worn by some women, for controling the rolls at the
waistline, and sometimes to give additional support to the bust, but
regular bras were probably more common.  Also, the bra goes under the slip,
not over it. 

>>then the outfit, shoes
>>perfume
>>makeup
>>and pearls.
>>
>>just to leave the house.

Don't forget the hat and gloves!  Mandatory for formal events, but also
worn for daily use.  Whenever going into the city, to a ladies' gathering,
including things like church committee and PTA meetings, or anything more
formal than going to the grocery store, and sometimes even then.

Margo

(who barely remembers her mother going through all this) 



"One Tough Costumer"


The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
http://www.margospatterns.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
From: sylvia 
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:58:18 -0700
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on 2/18/03 12:53 PM, Jean Waddie at anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk wrote:

> I'm not sure if this is a problem in translation or just my ignorance of
> how these things go together - garters and garter belt??
> 
> In Britain, garters are tied or elasticated bands that you wear just
> below the top of your stockings (hose) to keep them up.
> I thought a garter belt translated to a suspender belt - an item that
> goes round the waist/hips with straps hanging down that fix with a
> little clip thingy to the tops of your stockings, removing the need for
> garters.

Yes, this is a garter belt.  Not worn with the British kind of garters.

Also, I'm not sure if the rest of the items mentioned are from the 1940s.  I
know my mother wore a rigid rubber girdle in the 1950s and the long line
bras.  I think they came in in the fifties, not the '40s.

Hose would be the seamed variety.  I don't know what the camisole is all
about.  I think a full slip would have been worn.

Sylrog
> 
> So why, or how, do you wear both together?
> 
> Jean
> 
> 
> Betsy Marshall  wrote
>> let me see if I correctly remember what My mom mentioned;
>> hose,
>> garters,
>> garter belt
>> nearly rigid girdle
>> slip
>> camisole
>> long line bra (also nearly rigid)
>> then the outfit, shoes
>> perfume
>> makeup
>> and pearls.
>> 
>> just to leave the house.
>> (thank you lord for sparing me that!)
>> Betsy
>> hope this was helpful..
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
>> Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:33 AM
>> To: h-costume@indra.com
>> Subject: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I'll be making (eventually) a 1943 dress (vintage vogue pattern). What kind
>> of underwear should be worn with that?
>> Thanks!
>> Audrey
>> _______________________________________________
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 18 16:38:04 2003
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Audrey wrote:

<>

Per Mom (also an Audrey):

Bra
Underpants
Slip
Garter belt & stockings if you could get them
(remember, there's a war on) OR
White socks

She also mentioned that a lady never left the house
without a clean (preferably scented) hankie and a
clean pair of gloves in her purse, or without a hat
and gloves.

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA
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Yes, yes, what _she_ (pointing frantically) said!!! I remember watching 
my Mom go through that ritual until she dumped the office job and became 
a parking controlman. God, that girdle was a day's worth of workout all 
by itself to wrestle onto oneself.

Also, another person who has been making up these re-issued period 
patterns, said that they've been somewhat re-engineered to fit the 
modern (21st cent) body (with whatever one chooses to have going on 
underneath), so, if you want the period silhouette (20's, 30's, 40's, 
50's - will all be different), it's probably a good idea to have the 
undergarments first and build the outfit over that shape.  One list 
member (I can't remember who, if I find her dress diary I'll post it) 
made the cutest 50's reissue of a sort-of wrap dress and mentioned that 
it didn't achieve the look without the bullet bra!!

Meanwhile, I'm snapping up all those re-issued ones I can afford, 
undergarments or not!!!

Theresa Eacker



Betsy Marshall wrote:

> let me see if I correctly remember what My mom mentioned;
> hose, 
> garters, 
> garter belt
> nearly rigid girdle
> slip 
> camisole 
> long line bra (also nearly rigid)
> then the outfit, shoes
> perfume 
> makeup 
> and pearls.
> 
> just to leave the house.
> (thank you lord for sparing me that!)
> Betsy
> hope this was helpful..
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:33 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I'll be making (eventually) a 1943 dress (vintage vogue pattern). What kind
> of underwear should be worn with that?
> Thanks!
> Audrey
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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> 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Tue Feb 18 16:49:19 2003
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> Meanwhile, I'm snapping up all those re-issued ones I can afford,
> undergarments or not!!!
>
> Theresa Eacker

Me too. They're not making the Retro Butterick ones anymore, so I'm slowly
getting them through EBay. If you know of any other good sources, let me
know. If some list members happen to have some in the smallest size they'd
wish to part with, let me know! Well, the Vintage Vogue ones, too...
Ehehe...
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Thanks guys, it does help getting me started :-)

I just don't know a lot about costuming in this period, and though I can
find TONS of pics of dresses and coats, I just couldn't find sources that
agreed about underwear.

> >>hose,
> >>garters,
> >>garter belt

But wasn't it during that time period that hose became really rare and leg
makeup was used? Or was it a little later in the 40'?

> >>nearly rigid girdle
> Not always, especially in the case of a young shapely woman, but certainly
> expected of any woman with a bit extra.

Okay, so what would a young shapely woman wear, then? I saw one-piece
girdles, like this
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2812105331&category=20984
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811979404&category=20984
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811339305&category=7277
Or the separate ones like this
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2812105615&category=20984
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2812344465&category=20984

I guess if both were in use, most young women would probably tend to use the
short girdle and separate bra. Am I right? I also notice those short girdles
stop exactly at the natural waistline. However, I don't have enough examples
to make sure they never extended above. Could someone help?

In this case, where would I find a girdle? I want the general look, it
doesn't need to be accurate, nobody'll see it :-). Do they still sell good
enough girdles in regular stores? (shows how much I know about lingerie!) Or
should I try to get a vintage one?

As for the bra, I have a padded Triumph that I don't like to wear because I
think it makes my breasts look too pointy, do you think that would work? Or
should I really try to get a definitely cone-shaped bra?

> More likely a full slip rther than a camisole and half slip
Where would one find such a thing? Or a pattern to make one? Can you show me
examples of what it should look like?

Would a woman then have worn something under the girdle? I mean, they
probably weren't walking around with those open-bottomed girdles and
crotchless slips and nothing else?

 >>then the outfit, shoes
There I'm stumped. I'll be dancing in this dress and my knees don't like
dancing with high heels, so I really need some help. Something that laces on
or straps on so I don't have to worry about them slipping off my feet. I saw
some nurses' shoes, but they look too bland to wear with a nice dress.

> >>makeup
That, I'll need to find a book and look at plenty of illustrations :-) But I
can figure out on my own, since it IS visible on vintage photograps! Though,
sadly, not in color.

> >>and pearls.
Aaaahh... my favourites :-)

> Don't forget the hat and gloves!
What kind of hat? They tend to change so much that I'm not sure what type I
should be looking for. The only thing I know is that it needs to be small.

As for gloves, my only concern is whether I should keep them on or not while
dancing. My guess is yes. But I might be wrong.

My mother is too young to have been aware of those things. My grandmother
thinks it is of so little interest that it's really hard to get some info
out of her. The local swing dancing community is very active at improving
their dancing skills, but most of them are just not that interested in
clothing. See, I've taken to swing dancing again. Lindy Hop, mostly. So I
thought I'd combine it with my interest in costuming :-)

Thanks all!
Audrey
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From: Robin Netherton 
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:

> > More likely a full slip rther than a camisole and half slip

> Where would one find such a thing? Or a pattern to make one?

I've been watching Ebay's Vintage Patterns category for a few specific
items lately, and I've noticed several patterns for slips. Try a search in
the category > Collectibles > Vintage Sewing > Patterns > Women.

Also, the pictures on the pattern envelopes are a really helpful guide to
hairstyles, footwear, fabric patterns, and even purses/accessories for any
given style of dress -- as might be worn by real women, not models in
fashion magazines. I've been eating up every image I can find for my
target year.

I've been pleasantly surprised at just how many patterns show up in my
size (bust 42 to 45, depending on the bra), which can be an 18 or 20 or 22
depending on the exact era. There are a lot of half-sizes out there too.
Evidently enough women who sewed were large, and their patterns are up for
grabs. My routine search right now has all my size numbers in it, so I can
see what dress patterns are up that might fit me on any given day.

If I could get myself a good-fitting bra for 40s or 50s, I'd be on those
patterns in a flash. Modern silhouettes don't favor me. The smarter
sellers group their patterns in lots by size as well as decade, and for
less than $10 I could get a handful of vintage patterns that would all FIT
me. Hmm, are there bra patterns? I haven't looked...

In today's mail arrived the '60s dress pattern I'm going to use for
CostumeCon. Oh joy!

--Robin

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From: Allison 
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Subject: [h-cost] re: 1940's stuff
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Try this link:

http://www.costumes.org/pages/timelinepages/1940s1.htm

As soon as I send this I'm going back to it - I LOVE the 40's look!  (One of
the reasons is that the wide shoulders and poufy hair help to balance the
width of my derriere...)


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re: 1940's stuff


Try this link:



http://www.costumes.org/pages/timelinepages/1940s1.htm



As soon as I send this I'm going back to it - I LOVE the 40's look!  (One of the reasons is that the wide shoulders and poufy hair help to balance the width of my derriere...)





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All I get (using your addy--it doesn't quite want to function as a link,
but I did copy it) is an otherwise blank page, with a little, tiny,
round, yellow button in the upper-left corner, with the word "go" on
it.  Tres strange.....
--sue

Allison wrote:
> 
> Try this link:
> 
> http://www.costumes.org/pages/timelinepages/1940s1.htm
> 
> As soon as I send this I'm going back to it - I LOVE the 40's look!
>  (One of the reasons is that the wide shoulders and poufy hair help to
> balance the width of my derriere...)
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From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:25:07 -0500
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Chiming in...the girdles I have of this time period are made of cottill,
boned in the front and side backs.  One ends at the waist and the other
extends about 2" above the waist. While the rear is controlled rather
firmly, the garment is fastened on the left side with hooks and eyes and
zippered up over them.  They have garters suspended both front and back.  I
also have corsets of this period which have all the above fabric and
construction methods, but also provide for the breast. The effect was not so
much curvaceous but linear.  Undoubtedly, this corset harkened back to the
preferred line of the 1930's, and was probably the garment of choice of
older women.  One interesting two piece girdle and bra combo was
"upholstered" with floral silk perhaps to be used as a twopiece bathing
suit. ( It might also have been altered for the stage so as to suggest
'french undies)? As it was found in a box with bathing things, I have
assumed that it was the latter.  Bras of this time period, and underwear in
general that survived the rag bag, tend to be much mended .  The
construction was obviously meant to provide support rather than Hollywood
shaping.  The so called bullet look does not come into common use until
after the war in this country, and was paired with the Warner pantie
girdle, or  the Playtex rubber model that became part of the NEW Look.
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?


> Thanks guys, it does help getting me started :-)
>
> I just don't know a lot about costuming in this period, and though I can
> find TONS of pics of dresses and coats, I just couldn't find sources that
> agreed about underwear.
>
> > >>hose,
> > >>garters,
> > >>garter belt
>
> But wasn't it during that time period that hose became really rare and leg
> makeup was used? Or was it a little later in the 40'?
>
> > >>nearly rigid girdle
> > Not always, especially in the case of a young shapely woman, but
certainly
> > expected of any woman with a bit extra.
>
> Okay, so what would a young shapely woman wear, then? I saw one-piece
> girdles, like this
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2812105331&category=20984
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811979404&category=20984
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811339305&category=7277
> Or the separate ones like this
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2812105615&category=20984
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2812344465&category=20984
>
> I guess if both were in use, most young women would probably tend to use
the
> short girdle and separate bra. Am I right? I also notice those short
girdles
> stop exactly at the natural waistline. However, I don't have enough
examples
> to make sure they never extended above. Could someone help?
>
> In this case, where would I find a girdle? I want the general look, it
> doesn't need to be accurate, nobody'll see it :-). Do they still sell good
> enough girdles in regular stores? (shows how much I know about lingerie!)
Or
> should I try to get a vintage one?
>
> As for the bra, I have a padded Triumph that I don't like to wear because
I
> think it makes my breasts look too pointy, do you think that would work?
Or
> should I really try to get a definitely cone-shaped bra?
>
> > More likely a full slip rther than a camisole and half slip
> Where would one find such a thing? Or a pattern to make one? Can you show
me
> examples of what it should look like?
>
> Would a woman then have worn something under the girdle? I mean, they
> probably weren't walking around with those open-bottomed girdles and
> crotchless slips and nothing else?
>
>  >>then the outfit, shoes
> There I'm stumped. I'll be dancing in this dress and my knees don't like
> dancing with high heels, so I really need some help. Something that laces
on
> or straps on so I don't have to worry about them slipping off my feet. I
saw
> some nurses' shoes, but they look too bland to wear with a nice dress.
>
> > >>makeup
> That, I'll need to find a book and look at plenty of illustrations :-) But
I
> can figure out on my own, since it IS visible on vintage photograps!
Though,
> sadly, not in color.
>
> > >>and pearls.
> Aaaahh... my favourites :-)
>
> > Don't forget the hat and gloves!
> What kind of hat? They tend to change so much that I'm not sure what type
I
> should be looking for. The only thing I know is that it needs to be small.
>
> As for gloves, my only concern is whether I should keep them on or not
while
> dancing. My guess is yes. But I might be wrong.
>
> My mother is too young to have been aware of those things. My grandmother
> thinks it is of so little interest that it's really hard to get some info
> out of her. The local swing dancing community is very active at improving
> their dancing skills, but most of them are just not that interested in
> clothing. See, I've taken to swing dancing again. Lindy Hop, mostly. So I
> thought I'd combine it with my interest in costuming :-)
>
> Thanks all!
> Audrey
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
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Chiming in...the girdles I have of this time period are made of cottill,
boned in the front and side backs.  One ends at the waist and the other
extends about 2" above the waist. While the rear is controlled rather
firmly, the garment is fastened on the left side with hooks and eyes and
zippered up over them.  They have garters suspended both front and back.  I
also have corsets of this period which have all the above fabric and
construction methods, but also provide for the breast. The effect was not so
much curvaceous but linear.  Undoubtedly, this corset harkened back to the
preferred line of the 1930's, and was probably the garment of choice of
older women.  One interesting two piece girdle and bra combo was
"upholstered" with floral silk perhaps to be used as a twopiece bathing
suit. ( It might also have been altered for the stage so as to suggest
'french undies)? As it was found in a box with bathing things, I have
assumed that it was the latter.  Bras of this time period, and underwear in
general that survived the rag bag, tend to be much mended .  The
construction was obviously meant to provide support rather than Hollywood
shaping.  The so called bullet look does not come into common use until
after the war in this country, and was paired with the Warner pantie
girdle, or  the Playtex rubber model that became part of the NEW Look.
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?


> Thanks guys, it does help getting me started :-)
>
> I just don't know a lot about costuming in this period, and though I can
> find TONS of pics of dresses and coats, I just couldn't find sources that
> agreed about underwear.
>
> > >>hose,
> > >>garters,
> > >>garter belt
>
> But wasn't it during that time period that hose became really rare and leg
> makeup was used? Or was it a little later in the 40'?
>
> > >>nearly rigid girdle
> > Not always, especially in the case of a young shapely woman, but
certainly
> > expected of any woman with a bit extra.
>
> Okay, so what would a young shapely woman wear, then? I saw one-piece
> girdles, like this
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2812105331&category=20984
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811979404&category=20984
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811339305&category=7277
> Or the separate ones like this
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2812105615&category=20984
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2812344465&category=20984
>
> I guess if both were in use, most young women would probably tend to use
the
> short girdle and separate bra. Am I right? I also notice those short
girdles
> stop exactly at the natural waistline. However, I don't have enough
examples
> to make sure they never extended above. Could someone help?
>
> In this case, where would I find a girdle? I want the general look, it
> doesn't need to be accurate, nobody'll see it :-). Do they still sell good
> enough girdles in regular stores? (shows how much I know about lingerie!)
Or
> should I try to get a vintage one?
>
> As for the bra, I have a padded Triumph that I don't like to wear because
I
> think it makes my breasts look too pointy, do you think that would work?
Or
> should I really try to get a definitely cone-shaped bra?
>
> > More likely a full slip rther than a camisole and half slip
> Where would one find such a thing? Or a pattern to make one? Can you show
me
> examples of what it should look like?
>
> Would a woman then have worn something under the girdle? I mean, they
> probably weren't walking around with those open-bottomed girdles and
> crotchless slips and nothing else?
>
>  >>then the outfit, shoes
> There I'm stumped. I'll be dancing in this dress and my knees don't like
> dancing with high heels, so I really need some help. Something that laces
on
> or straps on so I don't have to worry about them slipping off my feet. I
saw
> some nurses' shoes, but they look too bland to wear with a nice dress.
>
> > >>makeup
> That, I'll need to find a book and look at plenty of illustrations :-) But
I
> can figure out on my own, since it IS visible on vintage photograps!
Though,
> sadly, not in color.
>
> > >>and pearls.
> Aaaahh... my favourites :-)
>
> > Don't forget the hat and gloves!
> What kind of hat? They tend to change so much that I'm not sure what type
I
> should be looking for. The only thing I know is that it needs to be small.
>
> As for gloves, my only concern is whether I should keep them on or not
while
> dancing. My guess is yes. But I might be wrong.
>
> My mother is too young to have been aware of those things. My grandmother
> thinks it is of so little interest that it's really hard to get some info
> out of her. The local swing dancing community is very active at improving
> their dancing skills, but most of them are just not that interested in
> clothing. See, I've taken to swing dancing again. Lindy Hop, mostly. So I
> thought I'd combine it with my interest in costuming :-)
>
> Thanks all!
> Audrey
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
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http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
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--part1_152.1c022dfa.2b844966_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>hose,
>>>garters,
>>>garter belt

But wasn't it during that time period that hose became really rare and leg
makeup was used? Or was it a little later in the 40'?
>>>>>>>>>>>>

IIRC silk was scarce due to a combination of the enemy holding all the good 
silk-producing territories and what silk was available being grabbed for 
parachute production.  By 1943, I'd expect most women would have been using 
makeup.

(I can't document this, but supposedly once when a team -- either OSS or SOE 
-- parachuted into occupied Europe, one of the agents was halfway through 
burying his parachute when he realized the female Resistance member with him 
was digging it back up.  "We're supposed to bury this", he hissed.  She 
replied "Who cares, I haven't seen silk this good since before the war.")

Leah

--part1_152.1c022dfa.2b844966_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>hose,

>>>garters,

>>>garter belt



But wasn't it during that time period that hose became really rare and leg
makeup was used? Or was it a little later in the 40'?

>>>>>>>>>>>>



IIRC silk was scarce due to a combination of the enemy holding all the good=20=
silk-producing territories and what silk was available being grabbed for par=
achute production.  By 1943, I'd expect most women would have been usin=
g makeup.



(I can't document this, but supposedly once when a team -- either OSS or SOE=
 -- parachuted into occupied Europe, one of the agents was halfway through b=
urying his parachute when he realized the female Resistance member with him=20=
was digging it back up.  "We're supposed to bury this", he hissed. =
; She replied "Who cares, I haven't seen silk this good since before the war=
.")



Leah


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Hi Audrey,

You may want to consider joining the SewRetro listserv
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sewretro/) -- there are a lot of listmembers
working on this same era as you, and I'm sure they'd be happy to share their
knowledge and resources!

- Kendra

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Thank you all for the information -- I will share the stories with my
friend later this week.  I think our clothing is a mixture of both
"borrowed" labels and labels that came with patterns and/or fabric.

Thanks, jonica
(melting back into the lurking shadows)

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>Re: vintage ('40's, etc.) underwear

I'm not old enough to remember this, but my mother never threw anything 
out.  Also, I have had need to acquire some shaping garments lately, so, 
check out the JC Penney catalog.  They have a few girdles, bras, and slips 
that could pass for '40's (definitely '50's) look.  They even have one or 
two open-bottom girdles.  And no, as far as I know, you didn't wear 
anything under one - just the open girdle, stockings, slip, and 
dress.  That's why it was such a big deal for guys to sneak mirrors onto 
the floor - free show!!  I had to do this outfit in Jr. High for a band 
concert, as I had never worn hose before and didn't own any, found out the 
day of the concert we had to wear them.  Had to wear my mother's girdle and 
stockings.  Not fun!!  (7th grade was the last time we were the same size).

YMMV,
Sandy


"Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
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Why They Are Simply Doomed."

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"The Illusion of Historical Fact"
-- C.Y. 4971

Andromeda


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 And no, as far as I know, you didn't wear 
>anything under one - just the open girdle, stockings, slip, and 
>dress.

Are you saying they didn't have panties?  I'm pretty sure that by the 40's
they were common.  In fact, I have a wartime sewing book that has lots of
hints for recycling garments, and suggests you can make panties out of old
shirts.  They seem to have been waist high, loose legged, and had a side
placket and button closing, or an elastic waist. 

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


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Subject: "Vintage Vogue" patterns (WAS: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?)
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Theresa Eacker  wrote:

>Also, another person who has been making up these re-issued period 
>patterns, said that they've been somewhat re-engineered to fit the modern 
>(21st cent) body (with whatever one chooses to have going on underneath)

Vogue Patterns Magazine noted this specifically when they introduced the 
series. Undergarments would have molded a developing 40's body in a way 
differently than modern undergarments mold modern bodies AND there has been 
"size inflation" by the pattern industry to about three or four pattern 
sizes in the interrim.

>so, if you want the period silhouette (20's, 30's, 40's, 50's - will all 
>be different), it's probably a good idea to have the undergarments first 
>and build the outfit over that shape.

"Build" sounds like the operative word... unless by chance you have access 
to the original patterns. (A neighbor gave me several boxes of 50's- 
through 70's-era patterns some years ago... it is very interesting to study 
how the pattern sizes and markings changed over time...)

>One list member (I can't remember who, if I find her dress diary I'll post 
>it) made the cutest 50's reissue of a sort-of wrap dress and mentioned 
>that it didn't achieve the look without the bullet bra!!

Exquisite Form still makes these, and they're quite inexpensive.



Brenda
webwarren@earthlink.net


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> >that it didn't achieve the look without the bullet bra!!
>
> Exquisite Form still makes these, and they're quite inexpensive.

Would be great - except I'm a 32A. Exquisite Form is a full-figure line, and
so their smallest size is 34B. And there's no way I'm going to stuff things
in the bra to make up for that! ;-)
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Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:

>>>that it didn't achieve the look without the bullet bra!!
>>>      
>>>
>>Exquisite Form still makes these, and they're quite inexpensive.
>>    
>>
>
>Would be great - except I'm a 32A. Exquisite Form is a full-figure line, and
>so their smallest size is 34B. And there's no way I'm going to stuff things
>in the bra to make up for that! ;-)
>  
>
http://www.bulletbras.net/
lists 32A - but I believe they are more 50s than 40s

Liz


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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: vintage (look) underpinnings
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Margo Anderson wrote:

> Are you saying they didn't have panties?  I'm pretty sure that by the
> 40's they were common.  In fact, I have a wartime sewing book that has
> lots of hints for recycling garments, and suggests you can make
> panties out of old shirts.  They seem to have been waist high, loose
> legged, and had a side placket and button closing, or an elastic
> waist.

Here's a 1934 pattern for bra and bloomers:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3208412698&category=4161

It's getting a lot of bids, more than you usually see for vintage
patterns. Talk about size inflation since then ... size 16 was a 34-inch
bust!

--Robin


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----- Original Message -----
Subject: [h-cost] Re: vintage (look) underpinnings
>
> >Re: vintage ('40's, etc.) underwear
>
> I'm not old enough to remember this . . .
(snip)
 > And no, as far as I know, you didn't wear
> anything under one -

I am old enough to remember this, (just), and - in England - what my mother
and aunties wore was knickers.  No-one I ever knew would have dreamt of
going anywhere without their knickers - really anxious people were suspected
of wearing them even in the bath !

They start at the waist, and are held up with knicker elastic, and they
descend to just above the knee, where they are again gathered in with
elastic.  Thus they cover from the top of the girdle to below the stocking
tops and the suspender clips or garters.  The best ones were made of silk in
pale pastel shades, and sometimes there was a very narrow lace edging.  I
believe the style might have been called "Directoire", but memory is vague
on this point.  They are still sold, but not in the fashion shops.

The order of underclothes was brassiere, girdle and stockings; vest and
knickers; and a full-length - that is, shoulder to hem - underslip.
Children like me wore a liberty bodice instead of the bra and girdle:
winter ones were fleecy-lined and very cosy; they had little rubber buttons.
As you can see, we lived in a part of the country that had cold winters.

Linda Walton.

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Another undergarment that I have is a fitted cami with crotch closures, =
similar to the modern garment of the 1970-  '90s. These are made of silk =
or, rayon.  The style is form  fitting, and probably for the small =
chested woman, would have been adequate without a bra.  One of the older =
faculty wives brought me one, along with a couple of shaped slips,to be =
converted to the cami style (in the late 1960's.  She bemoaned that her =
war-time undies had become too small, and she could not find them =
anywhere in her size.  I judge  that the old ones were from the late =
1930s. She said she wore them under her girdle.                          =
                                         About 20 years ago, my husband =
came home from an auction with the car filled with "remainders" that no =
one else was bidding on.  When I later sat in the livingroom with the =
various boxes around me, I was overwhelmed with a real sense of the =
spirit of "Mrs..Evans" hovering over her stuff that had been abandoned, =
and gleaned by RLM.  Starting at about 10 years old, I had a young girls =
school and Sunday clothes, graduating to the nubile teen, including her =
first long gown (Right out of the pages of the WHJournal), her plebe =
nursing uniforms, her RN uniform, Her Army nurse uniforms (including =
ward and field ). There were even shorts and a one piece sport suit. And =
a lovely bright red long gown of bengaline. And, underwear for all of =
the above. The surviving hose were of both cotton and silk, all much =
mended. And hats, gloves and, not last and least, her ditty bag,; it =
still contained soap and a tooth brush.                                  =
                                                                         =
                                                                         =
  So what to do?  I couldn't just throw it away...The undies and misc. =
that spoke of a private life have been kept together, as well as the =
uniforms and will be given to the Historical Society whenever I =
de-access that part of my collection. They are sometimes used for a =
"Show and Tell" program.  Other clothing has made its' way on stage as =
for a production of Anne Frank. And, as Mrs. Evans was a small woman, =
the garments are often copied likewise for the stage.                    =
         
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2D7F5.2E50C5C0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Another undergarment that I have is a fitted cami =
with crotch=20
closures, similar to the modern garment of the 1970-  '90s. These =
are made=20
of silk or, rayon.  The style is form  fitting, and probably =
for the=20
small chested woman, would have been adequate without a bra.  One =
of the=20
older faculty wives brought me one, along with a couple of shaped =
slips,to be=20
converted to the cami style (in the late 1960's.  She bemoaned that =
her=20
war-time undies had become too small, and she could not find them =
anywhere in=20
her size.  I judge  that the old ones were from the late =
1930s.=20
She said she wore them under her girdle.     =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
          About 20 years ago, my =
husband=20
came home from an auction with the car filled with "remainders" that no =
one else=20
was bidding on.  When I later sat in the livingroom with the =
various boxes=20
around me, I was overwhelmed with a real sense of the spirit of =
"Mrs..Evans"=20
hovering over her stuff that had been abandoned, and gleaned by =
RLM. =20
Starting at about 10 years old, I had a young girls school and Sunday =
clothes,=20
graduating to the nubile teen, including her first long gown (Right out =
of the=20
pages of the WHJournal), her plebe nursing uniforms, her RN uniform, Her =
Army=20
nurse uniforms (including ward and field ). There were even shorts =
and a=20
one piece sport suit. And a lovely bright red long gown of bengaline. =
And,=20
underwear for all of the above. The surviving hose were of both cotton =
and silk,=20
all much mended. And hats, gloves and, not last and least, her ditty =
bag,; it=20
still contained soap and a tooth=20
brush.           &=
nbsp;           &n=
bsp;           &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p;            =
;            =
     =20
            =
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   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
        So what to do?  I couldn't =
just throw=20
it away...The undies and misc. that spoke of a private life have been =
kept=20
together, as well as the uniforms and will be given to the Historical =
Society=20
whenever I de-access that part of my collection. They are sometimes used =
for a=20
"Show and Tell" program.  Other clothing has made its' way on stage =
as for=20
a production of Anne Frank. And, as Mrs. Evans was a small woman, the =
garments=20
are often copied likewise for the stage.   =20
            &=
nbsp;           &n=
bsp;


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: vintage (look) underpinnings
From: sylvia 
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:12:37 -0700
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on 2/18/03 9:45 PM, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger at costumrs@radiks.net wrote:

> 
>> Re: vintage ('40's, etc.) underwear
> 
> I'm not old enough to remember this, but my mother never threw anything
> out.  Also, I have had need to acquire some shaping garments lately, so,
> check out the JC Penney catalog.  They have a few girdles, bras, and slips
> that could pass for '40's (definitely '50's) look.  They even have one or
> two open-bottom girdles.  And no, as far as I know, you didn't wear
> anything under one - just the open girdle, stockings, slip, and
> dress.  That's why it was such a big deal for guys to sneak mirrors onto
> the floor - free show!!  I had to do this outfit in Jr. High for a band
> concert, as I had never worn hose before and didn't own any, found out the
> day of the concert we had to wear them.  Had to wear my mother's girdle and
> stockings.  Not fun!!  (7th grade was the last time we were the same size).

I remember watching my mother try to squeeze herself into one of those
rubber girdles with little airholes all over it.  She didn't wear panties
under it, probably because it was so difficult to get the damn thing on.
When she wasn't wearing the girdle, she did wear panties, ones with full
coverage.  I don't recall bikini panties coming in until the '70s.

Sylrog

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Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1943 underwear
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Hi!  
By 1943 leg make-up was definitely in use. You may
want to check out the Dover Books "Everyday Fashions
of the Forties as pictured in the Sears Catalogue". 
It's got some nice images of underpinnings from 1947,
and lots of shoes. The really pointy bra look is
later; you can see the development of (oh-bad joke!)
it at the end of the decade.
I costumed a gal a while back who had bad knees and a
bad back and didn't want heels and we found a
reasonable solution using platform wedge sandals.
(Here's where I would put a little sketch...)They gave
her a bit of height and gave her legs a nice line but
actually had minimal heel lift and were really stable
for dancing. 
A little hat/headpice might be just the thing to
finish your look--i've seen some really whimsical
shapes in this period.
Good luck with your ensemble!
Cynthia  

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Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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Greetings one and all!

I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but 
hopefully you will forgive me.

I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I am going 
through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes from the 
Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  I am looking 
for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize that I am not going 
to be able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, but I need 
someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  So please, for the 
sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information on good places to shop.

Thanks in advance,
Kit

PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a whole lot 
of heavy duty shopping anytime soon.

--part1_163.1c11b832.2b851d8b_boundary
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Greetings one and all!



I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but hopeful=
ly you will forgive me.



I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I am=
 going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes f=
rom the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away. =
 I am looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize=
 that I am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get in L=
A, but I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  So=
 please, for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information on go=
od places to shop.



Thanks in advance,

Kit



PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a whole lo=
t of heavy duty shopping anytime soon.

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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
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LLWatts@aol.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>hose,
>>>>garters,
>>>>garter belt
>
>But wasn't it during that time period that hose became really rare and leg
>makeup was used? Or was it a little later in the 40'?
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>IIRC silk was scarce due to a combination of the enemy holding all the
>good silk-producing territories and what silk was available being grabbed
>for parachute production.  By 1943, I'd expect most women would have
>been using makeup.
>
>(I can't document this, but supposedly once when a team -- either OSS or
>SOE -- parachuted into occupied Europe, one of the agents was halfway
>through burying his parachute when he realized the female Resistance
>member with him was digging it back up.  "We're supposed to bury this",
>he hissed.  She replied "Who cares, I haven't seen silk this good since
>before the war.")
>
>Leah

When did nylons appear in the US?  Everyone knows America had nylons, 
and all the GIs brought them over here.

I believe many wartime wedding dresses were made from parachutes - very 
valuable "finds"!

Jean

-- 
Jean Waddie
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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Kit, I'm in the Bay Area, but there's a place called Discount Fabrics in =
Berkeley that is worth checking out. I know that's not very close to =
you, but if you felt you'd ever get down there (it's about an hour plus =
from you) then let me know and I'll give you directions.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes=20
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"I have no other but a woman's reason:=20
I think him so, because I think him so."
Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act I, Sc. I - W. Shakespeare




  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Kitsune242@aol.com=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:48 AM
  Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA


  Greetings one and all!

  I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but =
hopefully you will forgive me.

  I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I =
am going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes =
from the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  =
I am looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize =
that I am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get =
in LA, but I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  =
So please, for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information =
on good places to shop.

  Thanks in advance,
  Kit

  PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a =
whole lot of heavy duty shopping anytime soon. 
------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C2D809.368E5CC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Kit, I'm in the Bay Area, but =
there's a place=20
called Discount Fabrics in Berkeley that is worth checking out. I know =
that's=20
not very close to you, but if you felt you'd ever get down there (it's =
about an=20
hour plus from you) then let me know and I'll give you =
directions.


 


angela


+++++
Angela F. =
Lazear
Cabbage Rose=20
Costumes 
http://www.cabbagerosecostume=
s.com
Theatrical=20
Costume Design


 


"I have no other but a woman's =
reason: 
I=20
think him so, because I think him so."
Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act =
I, Sc. I=20
- W. Shakespeare


 


 


 


 


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Kitsune242@aol.com 

  
  
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, =
2003 9:48=20
  AM

  
Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Stores =
in=20
  Northern CA

  

Greetings one and all!

I am sorry to =
bother those of=20
  you who do not live in California, but hopefully you will forgive =
me.

I=20
  have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say =
I am=20
  going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 =
minutes from=20
  the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes =
away.  I am=20
  looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize =
that I=20
  am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, =
but I=20
  need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  So =
please,=20
  for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information on good =
places=20
  to shop.

Thanks in advance,
Kit

PS - I am currently=20
  unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a whole lot of heavy =
duty=20
  shopping anytime soon. 

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C2D809.368E5CC0--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Wed Feb 19 15:05:38 2003
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To Kit-

I live in SF Bay Area and am lucky if I get to the Garment District once 
a year, even then I feel withdrawal pains so I feel for you deeply!!! 
There is a costumer's group in Sacramento:

http://www.gsacg.org/

They would probably have some good information to share, as well as 
providing an outlet for costuming opportunities (click on the 
"Calendar"). Say "hi" to Lynne for me!!!

Hopefully we'll cross paths in the future,

Theresa Eacker

Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: (Pruning)

> Greetings one and all!
> 
> I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but 
> hopefully you will forgive me.
> 
> I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I am 
> going through fabric shopping withdrawal.   
> I am looking for good stores where I can get decent prices..
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Kit



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Hi Kit, welcome to the area.  Sacramento is pretty lame for fabric
shopping, unfortunatly.  I second Teresa's recommendation to join the
Sacramento Costumer's Guild, for the best tips on where to shop.  We've
been talking for a while about organizing trips to San francisco or to the
LA district but it hasn't yet happened. We're having a meeting Monday
night, maybe I'll see you there.

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
http://www.margospatterns.com
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> I believe many wartime wedding dresses were made from parachutes - very
> valuable "finds"!
>
> Jean


What did these parachutes look like?

I had a college room mate who used a military surplus parachute (of unknown
age) to decorate her room. It was white silk, but none of the individual
pieces were very big. It had those triple sewn heavy duty seams every where,
and most of the pieces weren't regular, like squares or rectangles. It
didn't look like anything you could use for an adult sized dress, unless it
had a huge number of smallish pattern pieces.

It was lovely heavy slippery stuff though. The fire marshal came through for
inspections and made her take it down citing a fire hazard rule.

Denise
landofoz@netins.net

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Jean wrote:

<>

Apologies if someone else already answered this and
I'm being redundant.

Nylon was introduced by DuPont in 1938. Nylon
stockings were shown at the 1939 World's Fair to
tremendous acclaim, and were available to the public
in 1940.

The War Production Board commandeered all supplies of
first silk, then nylon for the war effort during World
War II, making stockings of any kind very difficult to
find (my mother said she can remember her mother
wearing cotton stockings--not very attractive!).

Silk parachutes were prized. C. Willett in his
"History of Underclothes" relates the story (possibly
apocryphal) of an OSS person parachuting into France
in 1944. As he was burying his silk parachute, his
female French Resistance contact was frantically
unburying it to get the silk for making clothes. Her
comment when he said that they had to bury the
parachute: "Are you nuts? I haven't seen silk this
good in years!" ;-)

Oh, I almost forgot: Mrs. Slocombe from the British
comedy "Are You Being Served?" wears Directoire
knickers. Her comment in one episode to a customer:
"You can be cold and interesting in these..." (holding
up a pair of bikini panties) "...or warm and safe in
these." (holding up a pair of Directoire knickers).

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA
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From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk parachutes
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:37:48 -0500
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The ones I remember 'were like giant umbrellas or many gored like the skirts
of the beginning of the 20th Century. The only yardage usable ,for a gown,
as I remember, was at the outside ledge.  Otherwise you had to re-create
your design with lots of gores, or small pattern shapes...much like
"utility" patterns used in the clothing industry of the time.    Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Land of Oz" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:00 PM
Subject: [h-cost] silk parachutes


> > I believe many wartime wedding dresses were made from parachutes - very
> > valuable "finds"!
> >
> > Jean
>
>
> What did these parachutes look like?
>
> I had a college room mate who used a military surplus parachute (of
unknown
> age) to decorate her room. It was white silk, but none of the individual
> pieces were very big. It had those triple sewn heavy duty seams every
where,
> and most of the pieces weren't regular, like squares or rectangles. It
> didn't look like anything you could use for an adult sized dress, unless
it
> had a huge number of smallish pattern pieces.
>
> It was lovely heavy slippery stuff though. The fire marshal came through
for
> inspections and made her take it down citing a fire hazard rule.
>
> Denise
> landofoz@netins.net
>
> _______________________________________________
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Subject: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:34:50 -0600
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Does anyone know of a place to find a pattern for a 1920s cloche,
preferrably online instructions, but anything would be nice. Alternatively,
were cloches ever knitted or crocheted in period?


**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
BRF FOF

A room without books is like a body without a soul
---Cicero

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************


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The following is a quote from about Jan, 2001 on this list:
(I've been cleaning out my saved messages.)

> If anyone else is interested, I did a web search for "corselette" and 
> found all sorts of the wrong kinds of sites and ONE of 32 that offered 
> the undergarments.  The name of the company is Crepe-Suzette 
> Foundations, in Wenatchee, WA, no phone number but the website is 
> http://www.crepe-suzette.com/    They have a size-zip hi-rise 
> open-bottom girdle, RAGO 1294, and the "Lacette" open bottom 
> corselette on their website.
>
> I hope that helps anyone else who, like me, wants my vintage dresses 
> to fit the way they did for my grandmother.  I'm built just like her, 
> short and round, but her pictures all make her look as if she is tight 
> around the middle because of the foundation garments she wore.  Some 
> back support wouldn't hurt me either.
>
> LynnD

I went to the site yesterday, and they still carry a fairly wide variety 
of shaping garments, including the two mentioned in the quote above.

Ann in CT


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 6:37:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
lotsofteapots@charter.net writes:


> Alternatively,
> were cloches ever knitted or crocheted in period?
> 
> 

Oh yes! Though not in "granny squares" like you see in the 70's.

As for patterns, most cloches I've seen are felt molded into shape. Often, 
cut felt deco designs are cleverly stitched on. The felt has just the right 
flat color and look.
Other cloches I've seen are straw, again molded to shape or shaped by spiral 
sewing of a "tape" of straw. These can be easily made from straw hats you see 
in stores now. You cut the brim off and any stabilizer in the rim of the hat. 
You can shape it with a steam iron and a ham. Then put the stabilizer [like a 
grosgrain ribbon] back in the inside at head band level.

I did make a cloth/buckram cloche for a show once. It was 4 bullet shaped 
pieces....with the stabilizer ribbon in the usual place.

Remember, these hats fit down close to the head. No woman of fashion would 
show her forehead in the '20s.

--part1_4b.2b0372e7.2b8581d4_boundary
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 6:37:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, lo=
tsofteapots@charter.net writes:






Alternatively,

were cloches ever knitted or crocheted in period?








Oh yes! Though not in "granny squares" like you see in the 70's.



As for patterns, most cloches I've seen are felt molded into shape. Often, c=
ut felt deco designs are cleverly stitched on. The felt has just the right f=
lat color and look.

Other cloches I've seen are straw, again molded to shape or shaped by spiral=
 sewing of a "tape" of straw. These can be easily made from straw hats you s=
ee in stores now. You cut the brim off and any stabilizer in the rim of the=20=
hat. You can shape it with a steam iron and a ham. Then put the stabilizer [=
like a grosgrain ribbon] back in the inside at head band level.



I did make a cloth/buckram cloche for a show once. It was 4 bullet shaped pi=
eces....with the stabilizer ribbon in the usual place.



Remember, these hats fit down close to the head. No woman of fashion would s=
how her forehead in the '20s.

--part1_4b.2b0372e7.2b8581d4_boundary--
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From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's
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Are you looking for a felt hat or straw or for what time of year?  You can
cut and reshape  almost any felt hat for either sex into a cloche
hat for the 1920's.  The back of the hat fits to the nape of the neck and is
tapered toward the front, to be either slightly brimmed  over the eyes, or
with the brim turned back.  The necessary fit for the look is that the crown
must fit down over the ears in a very close fashion (cloche). There were
some hats of the late 1960's  that approximate the right style, (Singing in
the Rain, Thoroughly Modern Millie) but they did not fit low enough for the
original time period.  If you remove any wires, and the grosgrain inner hat
band, soak the hat in warm water, with the brim turned down, place it on a
hat form (styro will do) dry it and evenly shape it with your fingers toward
the 1920's style.  When the hat is dry, try it on for fit, ...you might do
this while the hat is drying, to make sure that the hat fits properly over
your crown, and decide whether you want it to go forward or turn back.  With
this decision, cut the back brim off at the nape, tapering it toward the
front accordingly  When the hat is trimmed and shaped to your liking, and
this need not be symmetrically, you are ready to reband it or add trimmings
as you like.  Before  you do this, you will want to 're-size' the hat and
this can be easily done by spraying it with 'cheap' hair spray until the hat
is saturated.  Use your fingers to bring the whole hat into a smooth shape.
        If you have copies of The American Needle Woman  or other Magazines
of the period, you will discover patterns ofr crochet or knitting of various
fibers from thread, ya nr, or straw.from:  which you can fashion original
hats.  They did use horsehair for the dressier sorts and I have been
successful in using contemporary forms to undo and reshape in the eliptical
forms that were popular in that time period.  The formular is not as
necessary as being in tune with the give and take of the fiber (and
material) to reshape as you desire .
BE ADVENTURIOUS.                     Kathleen

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 6:34 PM
Subject: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's


> Does anyone know of a place to find a pattern for a 1920s cloche,
> preferrably online instructions, but anything would be nice.
Alternatively,
> were cloches ever knitted or crocheted in period?
>
>
> **********************
> Rebecca Schmitt
> aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
> BRF FOF
>
> A room without books is like a body without a soul
> ---Cicero
>
> lotsofteapots@charter.net
> **********************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Girdles Re: 1943 underwear?
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> > http://www.crepe-suzette.com/    They have a size-zip hi-rise 

That's an awesome website... I want to start wearing 50's underwear now :-)

K
-----
www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/
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References: <163.1c11b832.2b851d8b@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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Hi Kit!

I too welcome you to Sacramento.  Shopping here is the pits!  The best =
place I have found here is:

Hi-Fashion Fabrics=20
4106 Franklin Boulevard, Sacramento, CA 95820=20
(916) 451-5648=20
=20
they sell silks, wools, etc.  The store is located in a run down and =
impoverished part of town, but it is the best place to find quality =
natural fiber fabric.  I took a trip over the weekend and paid a visit =
to Thai Silks in Los Altos, great selection and good prices on silk, not =
much else and of course there is always Britex in San Francisco.  Not a =
discount place, parking will probably cost you $30 before you walk in =
the door, but it is fabric heaven. =20

A five and a half hour drive might just be worth the trip.

Cheers!

Lisa
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Kitsune242@aol.com=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:48 AM
  Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA


  Greetings one and all!

  I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but =
hopefully you will forgive me.

  I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I =
am going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes =
from the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  =
I am looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize =
that I am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get =
in LA, but I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  =
So please, for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information =
on good places to shop.

  Thanks in advance,
  Kit

  PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a =
whole lot of heavy duty shopping anytime soon.=20

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Hi Kit!


 


I too welcome you to Sacramento.  =
Shopping=20
here is the pits!  The best place I have found here =
is:


 


Hi-Fashion =
Fabrics=20

4106 Franklin Boulevard, Sacramento, CA 95820 
(916)=20
451-5648 
 


they sell silks, wools, =
etc. =20
The store is located in a run down and impoverished part of town, but it =
is the=20
best place to find quality natural fiber fabric.  I took a trip =
over the=20
weekend and paid a visit to Thai Silks in Los Altos, great selection and =
good=20
prices on silk, not much else and of course there is always Britex in =
San=20
Francisco.  Not a discount place, parking will probably cost you =
$30 before=20
you walk in the door, but it is fabric heaven.  =



 


A five and a half hour =
drive might=20
just be worth the trip.


 


Cheers!


 


Lisa


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Kitsune242@aol.com 
  
  
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, =
2003 9:48=20
  AM

  
Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Stores =
in=20
  Northern CA

  

Greetings one and all!

I am sorry to =
bother those of=20
  you who do not live in California, but hopefully you will forgive =
me.

I=20
  have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say =
I am=20
  going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 =
minutes from=20
  the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes =
away.  I am=20
  looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize =
that I=20
  am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, =
but I=20
  need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  So =
please,=20
  for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information on good =
places=20
  to shop.

Thanks in advance,
Kit

PS - I am currently=20
  unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a whole lot of heavy =
duty=20
  shopping anytime soon. 

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2D840.B1FF4B80--


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Subject: [h-cost] For the Regency fan...
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:52:55 -0800 (PST)
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I thought I would share this with everyone, because
just filling out the application was so much fun! 8-)

Britain's Channel 4, home of those interesting "time
travel" reality shows, 1900 House, World War II House,
and Edwardian Country Manor (now getting set to air on
PBS in the US) is looking for people for their next
production: Regency England.

Ten young single ladies and their chaperones will be
spending 10 weeks at an English Regency house party a
la the novels of Jane Austin, Georgette Heyer, and
every other "trashy" Regency you can imagine. There
will also be the very necessary Regency bucks,
dandies, all the servants necessary, and (of course) a
film crew to document it all. It's a "24-hour"
reenactment, scheduled to run from mid-June through
August.

If you're interested in applying, their website is:

http://www.regencyhouseparty.co.uk/index02.htm

I applied. I know there isn't a snowball's chance of
this Yank getting selected, but it was wonderfully
amusing to consider the possibilities...

Dawn



=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fabric stores in Northern CA
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Kit wrote:

<>

Hi Kit--

The bad news: There isn't squat up here for fabric.
Discount Fabrics (corner of Ashby & San Pablo,
Berkeley) has some stuff, but you have to be really
careful (they are notorious for mislabeling stuff).
Stone Mtn. & Daughter (Shattuck St. near Dwight,
Berkeley) occasionally has some stuff upstairs in
their bargain area, and sends out 20% off coupons
about 3 times a year. The only other alternatives are
JoAnn's, Hancock's and Beverly's Fabrics. It's enough
to make a fabric-holic cry.

The good news: It's pretty easy to find somebody going
down south on a regular basis, and if you're buying
large quantities (which I now do because of the fabric
famine up here), you can make your deals with the
shops down in LA, then have somebody pick up the
fabric for you and bring it back. I go down to LA a
couple of times a year, and the last time brought back
about 300 yards of linen for shirts, shifts, and other
stuff.

Dawn





=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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Gosh, if you go up to the bay area, there are lots of great places.
Stone Mountain & Daughter, Silk Road..I actually liked SM&D  better than
Britex and I thought their prices were better.
 
Sg
 
-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 7:00 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
 
Hi Kit!
 
I too welcome you to Sacramento.  Shopping here is the pits!  The best
place I have found here is:
 
Hi-Fashion Fabrics 
4106 Franklin Boulevard, Sacramento, CA 95820 
(916) 451-5648 
 
they sell silks, wools, etc.  The store is located in a run down and
impoverished part of town, but it is the best place to find quality
natural fiber fabric.  I took a trip over the weekend and paid a visit
to Thai Silks in Los Altos, great selection and good prices on silk, not
much else and of course there is always Britex in San Francisco.  Not a
discount place, parking will probably cost you $30 before you walk in
the door, but it is fabric heaven.  
 
A five and a half hour drive might just be worth the trip.
 
Cheers!
 
Lisa
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kitsune242@aol.com 
To: h-costume@indra.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:48 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
 
Greetings one and all!

I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but
hopefully you will forgive me.

I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I am
going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes
from the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.
I am looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize
that I am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get
in LA, but I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.
So please, for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information
on good places to shop.

Thanks in advance,
Kit

PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a
whole lot of heavy duty shopping anytime soon. 

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Gosh, if you go up to the bay area, =
there
are lots of great places.  Stone Mountain
& Daughter, Silk =
Road….I actually liked SM&D  better than Britex
and I thought their prices were better.



 






Sg






 






-----Original Message-----

From: =
h-costume-admin@indra.com
[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On Behalf
Of Lisa Sinervo

Sent: Wednesday, February =
19, 2003
7:00 PM

To: =
h-costume@indra.com

Subject: Re: [h-cost] =
Fabric
Stores in Northern CA



 






Hi Kit!









 









I too welcome you to Sacramento.  Shopping here =
is the
pits!  The best place I have found here =
is:









 









Hi-Fashion =
Fabrics 

4106 Franklin Boulevard, Sacramento, CA 95820 

(916) 451-5648 

 









they sell silks, wools, etc.  The store is =
located in a
run down and impoverished part of town, but it is the best place to find
quality natural fiber fabric.  I took a trip over the weekend and =
paid a
visit to Thai Silks in Los Altos, great selection and good prices on =
silk, not
much else and of course there is always Britex in San Francisco.  =
Not a
discount place, parking will probably cost you $30 before you walk in =
the door,
but it is fabric heaven.  









 









A five and a half hour drive might just be worth the =
trip.









 









Cheers!









 









Lisa












----- Original Message ----- =














Sent: =
Wednesday,
February 19, 2003 9:48 AM









Subject: =
[h-cost] Fabric
Stores in Northern CA









 






Greetings one and all!



I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but =
hopefully
you will forgive me.



I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say =
I am
going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 =
minutes from
the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  =
I am
looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize =
that I
am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, =
but I
need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  So =
please, for
the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information on good places =
to
shop.



Thanks in advance,

Kit



PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a =
whole lot
of heavy duty shopping anytime soon. 















------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2D84A.7B2AFEB0--

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Girdles Re: 1943 underwear?
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:11:18 -0500
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Yeah, that's an awesome website. Started me drooling. Except that I have a
25 inch waist and 32A bra size. Looks like I'll have to MAKE MYSELF a girdle
and bra, because right now I can't seem to find ANYTHING :-(((

Any ideas, anyone?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Root" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Girdles Re: 1943 underwear?


> > > http://www.crepe-suzette.com/    They have a size-zip hi-rise
>
> That's an awesome website... I want to start wearing 50's underwear now
:-)
>
> K
> -----
> www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] For the Regency fan...
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:19:20 +1100
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> Britain's Channel 4, home of those interesting "time
> travel" reality shows, 1900 House, World War II House,
> and Edwardian Country Manor (now getting set to air on
> PBS in the US) is looking for people for their next
> production: Regency England.

This is for the 10 young single ladies who do get selected to be part of
this:
BITCH, BITCH, BITCH, COW, COW, COW....

:-)

I feel better now, just had to get that off my chest.

Living here is Australia we don't have any interesting shows like that to be
a part of.  Just reality TV like Survivor and other 'quality' television.
What I wouldn't give for a country with a sense of histroy and nostalgia.

Karen
-----
www.members.optusnet.com.au/smonster/

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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
References: <000701c2d885$2789d6b0$6601a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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I shall have to try Stone Mountain & Daughter, I've not been there yet.  =
Britex had a 30% off sale on Monday and they have such sales fairly =
regularly.  With that discount, prices head towards normal.  I'm still =
finding out where to shop here!  I think I shall try the LA garment =
district option in a few months myself.  Sacramento is a different ball =
park altogether, mostly polyester stuff.  But Hi-Fashion Fabrics was a =
bit like finding a hidden treasure, comparatively speaking.

Lisa
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Saragrace Knauf=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 6:09 PM
  Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA


  Gosh, if you go up to the bay area, there are lots of great places.  =
Stone Mountain & Daughter, Silk Road..I actually liked SM&D  better than =
Britex and I thought their prices were better.

  =20

  Sg

  =20

  -----Original Message-----
  From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On =
Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo
  Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 7:00 PM
  To: h-costume@indra.com
  Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA

  =20

  Hi Kit!

  =20

  I too welcome you to Sacramento.  Shopping here is the pits!  The best =
place I have found here is:

  =20

  Hi-Fashion Fabrics=20
  4106 Franklin Boulevard, Sacramento, CA 95820=20
  (916) 451-5648=20
  =20

  they sell silks, wools, etc.  The store is located in a run down and =
impoverished part of town, but it is the best place to find quality =
natural fiber fabric.  I took a trip over the weekend and paid a visit =
to Thai Silks in Los Altos, great selection and good prices on silk, not =
much else and of course there is always Britex in San Francisco.  Not a =
discount place, parking will probably cost you $30 before you walk in =
the door, but it is fabric heaven. =20

  =20

  A five and a half hour drive might just be worth the trip.

  =20

  Cheers!

  =20

  Lisa

    ----- Original Message -----=20

    From: Kitsune242@aol.com=20

    To: h-costume@indra.com=20

    Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:48 AM

    Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA

    =20

    Greetings one and all!

    I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but =
hopefully you will forgive me.

    I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I =
am going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes =
from the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  =
I am looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize =
that I am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get =
in LA, but I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  =
So please, for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information =
on good places to shop.

    Thanks in advance,
    Kit

    PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a =
whole lot of heavy duty shopping anytime soon.=20


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I shall have to try Stone Mountain =
& Daughter,=20
I've not been there yet.  Britex had a 30% off sale on Monday and =
they have=20
such sales fairly regularly.  With that discount, prices head =
towards=20
normal.  I'm still finding out where to shop here!  I =
think I=20
shall try the LA garment district option in a few months myself. =20
Sacramento is a different ball park altogether, mostly polyester =
stuff. =20
But Hi-Fashion Fabrics was a bit like finding a hidden treasure, =
comparatively=20
speaking.


 


Lisa



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Saragrace Knauf 
  
  
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, =
2003 6:09=20
  PM

  
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric =
Stores in=20
  Northern CA

  


  

  
Gosh, if =
you go up to=20
  the bay area, there are lots of great places.  Stone Mountain & =
Daughter,=20
  Silk=20
  Road=85.I =
actually liked=20
  SM&D  better than Britex and I thought their prices were=20
  better.

  
 

  

  
Sg

  
 

  
  
-----Original=20
  Message-----
From: =
h-costume-admin@indra.com=20
  [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On=20
  Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, =
2003 7:00=20
  PM
To:=20
  h-costume@indra.com
Subject:=20
  Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA

  
 

  

  
Hi=20
  Kit!

  

  
 

  

  
I too welcome you to=20
  Sacramento.  Shopping here is the pits!  The best place I =
have found=20
  here is:

  

  
 

  

  
Hi-Fashion=20
  Fabrics 
4106 Franklin =
Boulevard,=20
  Sacramento, CA 95820 
(916)=20
  451-5648 
 

  

  
they sell silks, wools, =
etc. =20
  The store is located in a run down and impoverished part of town, but =
it is=20
  the best place to find quality natural fiber fabric.  I took a =
trip over=20
  the weekend and paid a visit to Thai Silks in Los Altos, great =
selection and=20
  good prices on silk, not much else and of course there is always =
Britex in San=20
  Francisco.  Not a discount place, parking will probably cost you =
$30=20
  before you walk in the door, but it is fabric heaven. =20
  

  

  
 

  

  
A five and a half hour =
drive might=20
  just be worth the trip.

  

  
 

  

  
Cheers!

  

  
 

  

  
Lisa

  
    

    
----- Original Message =
-----=20
    

    

    
From: Kitsune242@aol.com=20
    

    

    
To: h-costume@indra.com=20
    

    

    
Sent:=20
    Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:48 =
AM

    

    
Subject:=20
    [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern =
CA

    

    
 

    
Greetings one and =
all!

I=20
    am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but =
hopefully=20
    you will forgive me.

I have recently moved to Sacramento from =

    Burbank.  Needless to say I am going through fabric shopping=20
    withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes from the Garment =
District in LA,=20
    now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  I am looking for good =
stores=20
    where I can get decent prices.  I realize that I am not going =
to be=20
    able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, but I need =
someplace to=20
    go that won't take me all day to get to.  So please, for the =
sake of a=20
    fellow costumer, please send me information on good places to=20
    shop.

Thanks in advance,
Kit

PS - I am currently=20
    unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a whole lot of heavy =
duty=20
    shopping anytime soon.=20
  =



------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2D845.6477A1A0--


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From: Lee Thompson-Herbert 
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To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 1943 underwear
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Cynthia Corley  wrote:
[...]
> I costumed a gal a while back who had bad knees and a
> bad back and didn't want heels and we found a
> reasonable solution using platform wedge sandals.
> (Here's where I would put a little sketch...)They gave
> her a bit of height and gave her legs a nice line but
> actually had minimal heel lift and were really stable
> for dancing. 

Here's an example of a dance shoe made in that 1940s style:
http://www.dancestore.com/1swivel.html
Hah, they're also voting for what their next new wedge style shoe
should be:
http://www.dancestore.com/wedgepick/

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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At 09:11 PM 02/19/2003 -0500, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:
>Yeah, that's an awesome website. Started me drooling. Except that I have a
>25 inch waist and 32A bra size. Looks like I'll have to MAKE MYSELF a girdle
>and bra, because right now I can't seem to find ANYTHING :-(((
>
>Any ideas, anyone?
>
Well, many good size cities still have custom bra and corset shops, the
kind that also do orthopedic braces and such.  The ladies there would
probably be charmed that someone your age wants to wear proper foundation
garments.

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
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Back when I was in grad school I worked at the Schlesinger Library at
Radcliffe, and I processed an archival collection of a woman who had been
the first female flight dispatcher in WWII.  Anyway, one of the items in the
collection was a scarf made of parachute silk -- of course, now I can't
remember at all what it looked like!

- Kendra

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Check out www.pbs.org to see that the US is getting into the reconstructing history field again and is accepting applications for a Colonial House show.  If you've always wanted to re-create Jamestown, etc. this may be your chance.

                        Anna von Argenthal

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Check out www.pbs.org to see that the US is getting into the 
reconstructing history field again and is accepting applications for a Colonial 
House show.  If you've always wanted to re-create Jamestown, etc. this may 
be your chance.


 


                        
Anna von Argenthal


--Boundary_(ID_r39ZNbMoZLexm75SZP8dXQ)--
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There's also Poppy Fabrics in Oakland, Silk Road? in Oakland, Satin Moon in 
San Francisco, Britex in San Francisco, the Silk Trading Company in San 
Francisco, and Thai Silks in Los Altos.  The Bay Area is quite rich in 
fabric stores.

Fran



>Hi Kit--
>
>The bad news: There isn't squat up here for fabric.
>Discount Fabrics (corner of Ashby & San Pablo,
>Berkeley) has some stuff, but you have to be really
>careful (they are notorious for mislabeling stuff).
>Stone Mtn. & Daughter (Shattuck St. near Dwight,
>Berkeley) occasionally has some stuff upstairs in
>their bargain area, and sends out 20% off coupons
>about 3 times a year. The only other alternatives are
>JoAnn's, Hancock's and Beverly's Fabrics. It's enough
>to make a fabric-holic cry.


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Dawn wrote:

>>Ten young single ladies and their chaperones will be
>spending 10 weeks at an English Regency house party a
>la the novels of Jane Austin, Georgette Heyer, and
>every other "trashy" Regency you can imagine.

Is this a quote from the programme makers? Is somebody implying that Jane Austen is trashy?
IMHO Heyer was a darn good writer too, though of lighter fiction, of course.

Kate Bunting (whose first love was the Regency period, though I ended up in 17th century reenactment)


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Did anyone see Law & Order Wed. night...

The villain for the night was a fashion college student who was overboard
with fashion.

Dr. Ollivet (sp), the resident shrink, said, "Women who go overboard with
fashion, are trying to make up for their inadquencies with their father.
The father does the daughter wrong, and she tries to dress overly *nice* so
he will notice her."

So how many of you ladies out there had father's who ignored you and this is
why you got into fashion?  So do the guys who are into fashion had mother's
who ignored them?

Both my parents liked for their girls to dress really nice.  That's why Mom
sewed so much for us.  Neither of my parents ignored any of their four
daughters.  All of us are really into fashion.  Three of us are into
historic fashions.

I love all the L&O series... just took me this many years to piss me off.  I
guess all their viewers will think it is true.  We are just all trying to
get Daddy's attention.  BTW, my dad passed away in 1971... I went to college
for fashion in 1976.

The only comment that I recall my Dad saying about my talents was... "One
day your sewing is going to take you far."  Mom had a lot more to say about
fashion and still does.

Personally, from my viewpoint, women dress the way they do, to please
themselves first, other women second, and men third.  (used up my comma
allowance for the night)

Good night!
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Tayo's Fair Oaks Fabric's in old Fair Oaks is worth a visit, especially if 
you also like dolls as  many of us do.  Meissener's only carries quilt 
fabric, but they have the best selection of thread and notions 
anywhere.  And once a month they get a visit from the stretch and sew in 
Modesto.  Satee's on Auburn  is a very strange place.  It has the glitsy 
ice skating kind of stuff, but lots of the beaded trims.  Fuzzy Penguin on 
fifty something has a really good selection of embroidery and needlework 
supplies.
I am addicted to linen, so I buy  most of my stuff on the internet or in 
Los Angeles.  I am going to do the garment district trip the day after 
costume college.

Welcome to Sacramento. It really isn't a bad  place to live. maryann

At 12:48 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Greetings one and all!
>
>I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but 
>hopefully you will forgive me.
>
>I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I am 
>going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes from 
>the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  I am 
>looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize that I 
>am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, but 
>I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  So please, 
>for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information on good 
>places to shop.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Kit
>
>PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a whole 
>lot of heavy duty shopping anytime soon.


--=====================_821638==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"


Tayo's Fair Oaks Fabric's in old Fair Oaks is worth a visit, especially
if you also like dolls as  many of us do.  Meissener's only
carries quilt fabric, but they have the best selection of thread and
notions anywhere.  And once a month they get a visit from the
stretch and sew in Modesto.  Satee's on Auburn  is a very
strange place.  It has the glitsy ice skating kind of stuff, but
lots of the beaded trims.  Fuzzy Penguin on fifty something has a
really good selection of embroidery and needlework supplies.

I am addicted to linen, so I buy  most of my stuff on the internet
or in Los Angeles.  I am going to do the garment district trip the
day after costume college.


Welcome to Sacramento. It really isn't a bad  place to live. 
maryann


At 12:48 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:


Greetings one and
all!


I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but
hopefully you will forgive me.


I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I
am going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20
minutes from the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes
away.  I am looking for good stores where I can get decent
prices.  I realize that I am not going to be able to get the same
deals I was able to get in LA, but I need someplace to go that won't take
me all day to get to.  So please, for the sake of a fellow costumer,
please send me information on good places to shop.


Thanks in advance,

Kit


PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a whole
lot of heavy duty shopping anytime soon.





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On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 04:14:26 -0500 "Penny Ladnier"
 writes:
> Did anyone see Law & Order Wed. night...
> 
> Dr. Ollivet (sp), the resident shrink, said, "Women who go overboard 
> with fashion, are trying to make up for their inadquencies with their 
> father. The father does the daughter wrong, and she tries to dress
overly 
> *nice* so he will notice her."

How nicely Freudian! That's certainly something that wasn't covered in
any of my psychology courses. I take it that the Fashionista was female?
Of course, if the toubled person is female, blame the father; if male,
blame the mother. Ask me how much I hate Freud. Actually, I think that it
could be said of someone who slavishly follows current fashions that they
have a sense of personal inadequecy which they are attempting to
compensate for by 'armoring' themselves with all the latest styles.
Please note the term *slavishly*. I don't think that this applies to most
of us, because we are interested in clothng that ISN'T in style anymore.
And while we may all have our own insecurities, I think that it shows an
independent turn of mind that we want to step away from the 'flow' of
fashion and explore different ways of dressing.


Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:18:50 -0500 (EST)
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Geez Louise, talk about bubble-gum pop psychology...

My dad was the one that paid attention to me.  He loved hats and costumes.
I made him all sorts of stuff.  He and my mother bought me my first
"historic" costume gown.

Idiots.

Next they're going to talk about milliners having penis-envy...

Drea


On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Penny Ladnier wrote:

> Did anyone see Law & Order Wed. night...
>
> The villain for the night was a fashion college student who was overboard
> with fashion.
>
> Dr. Ollivet (sp), the resident shrink, said, "Women who go overboard with
> fashion, are trying to make up for their inadquencies with their father.
> The father does the daughter wrong, and she tries to dress overly *nice* so
> he will notice her."
>
> So how many of you ladies out there had father's who ignored you and this is
> why you got into fashion?  So do the guys who are into fashion had mother's
> who ignored them?
>
> Both my parents liked for their girls to dress really nice.  That's why Mom
> sewed so much for us.  Neither of my parents ignored any of their four
> daughters.  All of us are really into fashion.  Three of us are into
> historic fashions.
>
> I love all the L&O series... just took me this many years to piss me off.  I
> guess all their viewers will think it is true.  We are just all trying to
> get Daddy's attention.  BTW, my dad passed away in 1971... I went to college
> for fashion in 1976.
>
> The only comment that I recall my Dad saying about my talents was... "One
> day your sewing is going to take you far."  Mom had a lot more to say about
> fashion and still does.
>
> Personally, from my viewpoint, women dress the way they do, to please
> themselves first, other women second, and men third.  (used up my comma
> allowance for the night)
>
> Good night!
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)]
>
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<So how many of you ladies out there had father's who ignored you and this is




why you got into fashion?  So do the guys who are into fashion had mother's


who ignored them?>


 


I think this is rather ridiculous !  I, for one, was " Daddy's little girl "  and was spoiled rotten.  He did encourage me to sew though.  He might complain if my Mother and I bought too many clothes at the store but, he would never complain if we bought loads of material and I made my own dresses.  I think that was one of his ways of being sure I had to "earn" some of what I received from my parents.  For me. it was like throwing a rabbit in the briar patch because I found I could make nicer formals and have more of them than we could afford to buy off the rack..   My Mother came from a family that did not have a lot of money and when she was accepted into Baylor University, she only had THREE dresses to go to college with.   Baylor is a rather expensive private University and she felt VERY underdressed there.  Consequently---she also made sure I had MORE than enough dresses/clothes.   Both of m!
y parents, and my Grandparents, loved to dress me up and, I loved to dress up.   I have not changed much----I love making my Elizabethan gowns and playing in the SCA.  


 


I had GREAT loving parents, Grandparents, andAunts & Uncles.  I was most definitely NOT ignored.   


 


Sorry for the long post----back to lurk mode !


Diane


 


--- Diane Mathews



--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.


 




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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
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Penny,

I've met large numbers of women obsessed with fashion who pretty insecure.
In fact, when I was living in New York in my early twenties and attended The
Fashion Institute of Technology, where my fellow classmates wore cocktail
dresses to lectures, I really felt that I could not relate to them at all,
most of their discussion was incredibly superficial and as much as I was
interested in sewing and clothing it was a place where I would never fit in
and not a field were I could ever have a career.

So I think it is pretty easy to find a real fashion college student to model
the Law and Order character after.  Are those interested in fashion less
secure in greater numbers than the general population? I think not.  It's
just more obvious.

My own SERIOUS interest in clothing and costuming came, by the way, from an
early marriage a Muslim who did not want me to dress as a western woman (he
thought modern dresses that showed my legs were immodest etc) and I tried
for some time to accommodate that and therefore had the experience of people
making a number of assumptions about me based upon my clothing that was not
of my own choosing. though all still all western. That episode in my life
was all very interesting, and became even more so when years later I
realized that a friend of mine was a closeted trangsgendered cross dresser.
His outward personal was so medievalist/biker type but really he was just
someone who wanted to look good and have a fun time in a chiffon frock.  He
still struggles with that and as a consequence, everyone around him is
effected whether they are aware of it or not.

So at this stage of my life, I tend to think that yes, some people who are
obsessed with fashion are pretty insecure and are trying to compensate for
some lack but also some of those who make very judgmental comments about
those interested in fashion don't want to deal with the issues of sexuality,
self expression etc that clothing brings up.  The man making the judgment
about the young woman could be projecting his own attraction to his own
daughter on the fashion student too.  Many many variations.  I love clothes
because they are so symbolic and so provocative.  They say so much without
words and thus are very very powerful for both the user and the interpreter.

Lisa






----- Original Message -----
From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "h-costume" 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:14 AM
Subject: [h-cost] A little Rant


> Did anyone see Law & Order Wed. night...
>
> The villain for the night was a fashion college student who was overboard
> with fashion.
>
> Dr. Ollivet (sp), the resident shrink, said, "Women who go overboard with
> fashion, are trying to make up for their inadquencies with their father.
> The father does the daughter wrong, and she tries to dress overly *nice*
so
> he will notice her."
>
> So how many of you ladies out there had father's who ignored you and this
is
> why you got into fashion?  So do the guys who are into fashion had
mother's
> who ignored them?
>
> Both my parents liked for their girls to dress really nice.  That's why
Mom
> sewed so much for us.  Neither of my parents ignored any of their four
> daughters.  All of us are really into fashion.  Three of us are into
> historic fashions.
>
> I love all the L&O series... just took me this many years to piss me off.
I
> guess all their viewers will think it is true.  We are just all trying to
> get Daddy's attention.  BTW, my dad passed away in 1971... I went to
college
> for fashion in 1976.
>
> The only comment that I recall my Dad saying about my talents was... "One
> day your sewing is going to take you far."  Mom had a lot more to say
about
> fashion and still does.
>
> Personally, from my viewpoint, women dress the way they do, to please
> themselves first, other women second, and men third.  (used up my comma
> allowance for the night)
>
> Good night!
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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At 08:21 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > Does anyone know of a place to find a pattern for a 1920s cloche,
> > preferrably online instructions, but anything would be nice.


D.L. Designs carries two different styles of cloche patterns; Alteryears 
carries these I'm pretty sure. Another option is buy a ready to trim hat. 
Leko has at least one hat in straw that would work 
http://www.hatsupply.com/undecorated3.htm.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis

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At 08:21 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:


> Does anyone know of a place to
find a pattern for a 1920s cloche,

> preferrably online instructions, but anything would be
nice.



D.L. Designs carries two different styles of cloche patterns; Alteryears
carries these I'm pretty sure. Another option is buy a ready to trim hat.
Leko has at least one hat in straw that would work
http://www.hatsupply.com/undecorated3.htm.


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 




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I am making a Vintage Vogue pattern (#2535 -
http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/voguepatterns/shop.cgi?s.item.2535=x&TI
='2535'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20828728) from 1928 for the Friday night social at
CostumeCon (I hope!). The overdress is a very light georgette with the
draping shawl and lower skirt a wine/bluepaisley and the contrast a matching
wine color. The underdress is a blue satiny fabric.

The cover illustrations both show a cloches on the model and a cloche would
hide my short, but definitely-not-a-bob, haircut. But I was hoping not to
have to spend too much to finish off the outift. Would shaped felt be more
appropriate, or could I get away with a knitted/crocheted hat for evening
wear? Where would I find a knitted/crocheted pattern?


> Are you looking for a felt hat or straw or for what time of year?

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
BRF FOF

A room without books is like a body without a soul
---Cicero

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************


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How very silly! I'd say my father encouraged my love of costumne and clothes.He loved my mom and sister and I to be beautifully dressed. He had a terrific eye for color and line, too.My mom sewed but was rather indifferent to fashion --except when she wanted to please him for a special occasion. Daddy also loved to watch 'historical movies'--which we kids would join him in. No, I'd say my father definitely payed LOTS of attention to all of his children.
So much for THAT TV land  theory.
Albra
 Penny Ladnier  wrote:Did anyone see Law & Order Wed. night...

The villain for the night was a fashion college student who was overboard
with fashion.

Dr. Ollivet (sp), the resident shrink, said, "Women who go overboard with
fashion, are trying to make up for their inadquencies with their father.
The father does the daughter wrong, and she tries to dress overly *nice* so
he will notice her."

So how many of you ladies out there had father's who ignored you and this is
why you got into fashion? So do the guys who are into fashion had mother's
who ignored them?

Both my parents liked for their girls to dress really nice. That's why Mom
sewed so much for us. Neither of my parents ignored any of their four
daughters. All of us are really into fashion. Three of us are into
historic fashions.

I love all the L&O series... just took me this many years to piss me off. I
guess all their viewers will think it is true. We are just all trying to
get Daddy's attention. BTW, my dad passed away in 1971... I went to college
for fashion in 1976.

The only comment that I recall my Dad saying about my talents was... "One
day your sewing is going to take you far." Mom had a lot more to say about
fashion and still does.

Personally, from my viewpoint, women dress the way they do, to please
themselves first, other women second, and men third. (used up my comma
allowance for the night)

Good night!
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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How very silly! I'd say my father encouraged my love of costumne and clothes.He loved my mom and sister and I to be beautifully dressed. He had a terrific eye for color and line, too.My mom sewed but was rather indifferent to fashion --except when she wanted to please him for a special occasion. Daddy also loved to watch 'historical movies'--which we kids would join him in. No, I'd say my father definitely payed LOTS of attention to all of his children.

So much for THAT TV land  theory.

Albra

 Penny Ladnier <penny@costumegallery.com> wrote:

Did anyone see Law & Order Wed. night...

The villain for the night was a fashion college student who was overboard
with fashion.

Dr. Ollivet (sp), the resident shrink, said, "Women who go overboard with
fashion, are trying to make up for their inadquencies with their father.
The father does the daughter wrong, and she tries to dress overly *nice* so
he will notice her."

So how many of you ladies out there had father's who ignored you and this is
why you got into fashion? So do the guys who are into fashion had mother's
who ignored them?

Both my parents liked for their girls to dress really nice. That's why Mom
sewed so much for us. Neither of my parents ignored any of their four
daughters. All of us are really into fashion. Three of us are into
historic fashions.

I love all the L&O series... just took me this many years!
 to piss me off. I
guess all their viewers will think it is true. We are just all trying to
get Daddy's attention. BTW, my dad passed away in 1971... I went to college
for fashion in 1976.

The only comment that I recall my Dad saying about my talents was... "One
day your sewing is going to take you far." Mom had a lot more to say about
fashion and still does.

Personally, from my viewpoint, women dress the way they do, to please
themselves first, other women second, and men third. (used up my comma
allowance for the night)

Good night!
Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Northern California Fabric Stores (long)
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:33:28 -0800 (PST)
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Fran wrote:

<>

While I agree that the Bay Area might have a passable
selection of fabric stores (I wouldn't go so far as to
describe it as "quite rich"), it doesn't have what we
really need: fabric sources that can offer very good
prices on both the natural and luxury fabrics we as
costumers so frequently require. Some examples:

1) Cotton velvet. I was in Discount Fabrics in Oakland
last Friday. They carry a small selection of heavy
cotton velvet at $16.50 a yard. By comparison, I can
buy a better quality cotton velvet for $7-10/yd at
more than a dozen stores along 9th Street in Los
Angeles.

2) Silk. The last time I bought silk up here, I paid
$12/yd for silk shantung at Stone Mtn. in Berkeley
(normally $16/yd, less 20% with a coupon). Silk City
(on Maple) and the luxury fabrics jobber at the corner
of Maple and 9th in LA carry the same fabric for
$4.50/yd.

3) Linen. Up here, you want linen, you pretty much
have to go to Stone Mtn., and it's $12-$16/yd. The
last time I bought linen at Moon's Fabics (842 Wall),
I paid $3 to $3.50/yd.

4) My most recent dress (an early 16th C. Italian). I
spent the following on fabrics for my dress:

6 yds. green cotton velvet @ $7/yd. (LA)
5 yds. white shirt-weight linen @$3.50/yd. (LA)
2 yds. gold silk shantung @ $12/yd. (SF)
Total: $83.50

If I had bought all the fabrics at Discount Fabrics,
Stone Mtn., or other Bay Area fabric stores, I would
have spent:

6 yds. green cotton velvet @ $16.50/yd (Discount)
5 yds white shirt-weight linen @ $15/yd (Stone Mtn.)
2 yds gold silk shantung @ $16/yd (Stone Mtn.)
Total: $206.00

I use far too much natural or luxury fabric to afford
the prices charged by the fabric stores in the Bay
Area. After 10 years of frustration from the high
prices and poor selection, I make it a point to spend
1 day in downtown LA every time I go to Southern
California (usually 2-3 times a year). When I'm down
there, I stock up: the last time I bought less than
the bolt was buying some cotton velvet, and I'm still
kicking myself for not buying the entire 30 yard roll
(I only bought 6 yards). I'm fortunate in several
respects: I can afford to drop $500 on fabric when I'm
down there; I have a minivan so I can bring the rolls
and bolts home; and I have the room in my house to
store the fabrics in a clean, smoke-free environment.
The money I save (59% on the dress fabric listed
above) more than makes up for the gas I spend going
down there.

As much as I love living in the Bay Area (I wouldn't
move back to LA for ANYTHING), I'll still continue to
do my major fabric buying down there.

Dawn



=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From: Lavolta Press 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Northern California Fabric Stores (long)
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If you think the Bay Area has a poor selection of fabric stores, you should 
see the laments on the general sewing newsgroups from the many people who 
have nothing at all in their area except a Joann's or a Wal-Mart.  I've 
always been able to find whatever I wanted locally (provided it's not some 
historic fabric that is no longer manufactured).

Fran

Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming
http://www.lavoltapress.com


>fabric stores.>>
>
>While I agree that the Bay Area might have a passable
>selection of fabric stores


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:20:11 -0500
Status: RO

Rebecca, funny thing, I have an antique that is this very dress.  Mine is a
patterned silk georgette, ivory background with Georgia O"Keefe style
poppies in flame and shades of orange. I use a peach slip underneath.
Because this is a summer fabric/style  I have two Italian straw cloche hats
: one has the brim turned back and pinned with a pearl brooch, and the other
is similar to the one on the pattern.  Over the last two summers, I have
seen sun 'bonnets' of a similar style that with resteaming, you could easily
effect the style.  These might show up in thrift stores by now.  Another hat
to look for is one of the ubiquitous bridesmaids hats with or without the
crown, that can be re- shaped. If you are going for the wide brimmed style
also popular at this time for the gardenparty look, the hat crown can be
domed and you will want the brim to be elliptical.  Think of an oval that
sits ear to ear and not 'for and aft'. This shape will connect with the age
and not look like 1975.  When I am doing a show, the biggest problem is
getting the models to wear the hat forward and down far enough to cover or
at least approach the ears.  Most are used to the perch look and worried
about 'hat-hair". Once on, you aren't supposed to fiddle with it or take it
off so if you do, the hair should be capped, anyway.The costumers for the
Pointer Series did a pretty good job  of recreating the look, I think.- ----
Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's


> I am making a Vintage Vogue pattern (#2535 -
>
http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/voguepatterns/shop.cgi?s.item.2535=x&TI
> ='2535'&pageNum=1&M=&UK=20828728) from 1928 for the Friday night social at
> CostumeCon (I hope!). The overdress is a very light georgette with the
> draping shawl and lower skirt a wine/bluepaisley and the contrast a
matching
> wine color. The underdress is a blue satiny fabric.
>
> The cover illustrations both show a cloches on the model and a cloche
would
> hide my short, but definitely-not-a-bob, haircut. But I was hoping not to
> have to spend too much to finish off the outift. Would shaped felt be more
> appropriate, or could I get away with a knitted/crocheted hat for evening
> wear? Where would I find a knitted/crocheted pattern?
>
>
> > Are you looking for a felt hat or straw or for what time of year?
>
> **********************
> Rebecca Schmitt
> aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
> BRF FOF
>
> A room without books is like a body without a soul
> ---Cicero
>
> lotsofteapots@charter.net
> **********************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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I appreciate everyone's comments but please, let's remember, this is a
TELEVISION SHOW. Nothing that anyone says about anything should be taken as
the truth, the writer writes whatever works for the story. I know, I know,
television should be responsible and not present things as true that aren't
true, but they don't. Witness: every "reality show" ever made.

Of course not everyone figures that out, but we can hope. I remember
learning that lesson for the first time when the judge on "LA Law" allowed a
continuance knowing that the plaintiff, a woman dying from cancer, would use
it to go have her head cut off and cryogenically preserved so that she could
be revived someday (she couldn't afford to have her whole body preserved).
That's a television program's version of morality, compassion, and personal
liberty for you!

Gail Finke


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From: Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant
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Status: RO

--- Penny Ladnier  wrote:
> Dr. Ollivet (sp), the resident shrink, said, "Women who go
> overboard with
> fashion, are trying to make up for their inadquencies with their
> father.
> The father does the daughter wrong, and she tries to dress overly
> *nice* so
> he will notice her."

(howls of derisive laughter)

> So how many of you ladies out there had father's who ignored you
> and this is
> why you got into fashion?  So do the guys who are into fashion had
> mother's
> who ignored them?

Heck no!  I was/am a daddy's girl.  My dad is the ultimate bookworm;
he wears blue jeans and flannel shirts and couldn't give a rat's
patoot about what any of us girls wear, so long as we think clearly. 
(My usual mode of operation is along these lines -- if I'm not in
period costume, that is.)  My mother, on the other hand, is a clothes
horse... but is not the least bit interested in period costumes.

I started dressing funny when I was a very small child, because all
the heroines in fairy tales wore long dresses so I wanted some too. 
This was my mother's despair, because then she had to _make_ them... 
 I ultimately learned to sew my own funny-looking clothing, of
course.

-- Mara

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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>I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I am 
>going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes from 
>the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  I am 
>looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize that I 
>am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, but 
>I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  So please, 
>for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information on good 
>places to shop.

General Bead (SF)
Discount Fabrics - (two in SF, one in Berkeley)
Stone Mountain and Daughters (Berkeley)
Silk Road (Oakland)
Poppy Fabrics (Oakland)
Mendel's Far Out Fabrics (SF)
Britex (SF - good but not cheap)
Jessica McClintock outlet (in the city of South San Francisco)
Hancock Fabric Warehouse (several locations)

Kayta

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 14:25:25 2003
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From: Mara Riley 
To: H-Costume 
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Subject: [h-cost] Enameling materials, free to good home...
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If anyone in reasonable driving distance from the Washington, DC area
is interested in some enameling supplies (powders, some copper
findings), please email me at corbiegirl@yahoo.com.  I inherited a
bunch of this stuff when my Grandma was cleaning out her basement,
and after a couple of years have decided I really have no intention
of getting into enameling.

I _might_ be persuaded to part with the enameling kiln that she gave
me, too, but think I'd like a bit of money for that...  I've been
debating trying to use it for ceramics, eventually.  I suspect it
needs a new power cord, however.

-- Mara


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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: warning (was Re: [h-cost] silk parachutes
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Land of Oz writes, in a message sent 03:00 PM 2/19/03 -0600:
> > I believe many wartime wedding dresses were made from parachutes - very
> > valuable "finds"!

>It was lovely heavy slippery stuff though. The fire marshal came through for
>inspections and made her take it down citing a fire hazard rule.

They are treated with something that makes them burn VERY quickly, in case 
of landing in enemy territory, so DON'T use them for making garments.

Kayta

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Northern California Fabric Stores (long)
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>I'm fortunate in several
>respects: I can afford to drop $500 on fabric when I'm
>down there; I have a minivan so I can bring the rolls
>and bolts home; and I have the room in my house to
>store the fabrics in a clean, smoke-free environment.
>The money I save (59% on the dress fabric listed
>above) more than makes up for the gas I spend going
>down there.

Gas, food, and accommodations?  And I don't have a mini-van anymore, nor a 
nice job.

Meanwhile, I don't think the prices at the Pendleton Wool Outlet in 
Wahsugal, Washington, can be beat.  Check the 800-number directory for 
their direct number, and they will ship.


Kayta

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 14:40:12 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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there are three discount fabrics in SF, there's an additional one 
in the Outer Mission as well.  

> 
> 
> >I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I am 
> >going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes from 
> >the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  I am 
> >looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize that I 
> >am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, but 
> >I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  So please, 
> >for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information on good 
> >places to shop.
> 
> General Bead (SF)
> Discount Fabrics - (two in SF, one in Berkeley)
> Stone Mountain and Daughters (Berkeley)
> Silk Road (Oakland)
> Poppy Fabrics (Oakland)
> Mendel's Far Out Fabrics (SF)
> Britex (SF - good but not cheap)
> Jessica McClintock outlet (in the city of South San Francisco)
> Hancock Fabric Warehouse (several locations)
> 
> Kayta
> 
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 14:49:33 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Piecework and history
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hey folk, I have just received my March-April issue of Piecework and it =
has several articles that would be interesting for historical costuming. =
 For starters, two hawking hoods from the 17th Century! And a nice =
Glove.Then, an article on Lesage embroidery, An Elizabethan-inspired =
band sampler, a beaded evening bag (about 1900), traditional  Norwegian =
knitting (modern time)and finally, Fashions at sea and at home, =
1850s-60s. Good articles and some pattern how-to's.  Enjoy, Kathleen
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2D8E6.D0A754A0
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Hey folk, I have just received my March-April issue =
of=20
Piecework and it has several articles that would be interesting for =
historical=20
costuming.  For starters, two hawking hoods from the 17th Century! =
And a=20
nice Glove.Then, an article on Lesage embroidery, An =
Elizabethan-inspired band=20
sampler, a beaded evening bag (about 1900), traditional  Norwegian =
knitting=20
(modern time)and finally, Fashions at sea and at home, 1850s-60s. Good =
articles=20
and some pattern how-to's.  Enjoy, =
Kathleen


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Subject: [h-cost] Shoe sizes, European USA
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Hi all,

Can anyone enlighten me as to what the USA shoe sizes are? Here in
England we officially have sizes measured in centimetres, but almost
all shoes also quote our original sizes alongside. But I have no idea
what the US shoe sizes represent, which is a shame if I want to buy
some on Ebay, and Googling isn't getting me anywhere...

best wishes
Stevie

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Status: RO

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I saw an image in the book Decade of the 1920s, that the bow or tap band
embellishment is supposed to mean something... like you are single.  It is
an illustration with three heads showing three different placements and
usage.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Gwyn Carnegie
  To: h-costume@indra.com
  Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 12:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's


  At 08:21 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:

    > Does anyone know of a place to find a pattern for a 1920s cloche,
    > preferrably online instructions, but anything would be nice.


  D.L. Designs carries two different styles of cloche patterns; Alteryears
carries these I'm pretty sure. Another option is buy a ready to trim hat.
Leko has at least one hat in straw that would work
http://www.hatsupply.com/undecorated3.htm.

  Gwyn Carnegie
  University of California, Davis


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I saw an image in the book Decade of the 1920s, that the bow or tap =
band=20
embellishment is supposed to mean something... like you are =
single.  It is=20
an illustration with three heads showing three different placements and=20
usage.


 


Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume =
Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =

http://www.costumeclassroom.com<=
/A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co=
m


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Gwyn=20
  Carnegie 
  
  
Sent: Thursday, February 20, =
2003 12:02=20
  PM

  
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche =
hat from the=20
  1920's

  

At 08:21 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:

  
> Does anyone know of a =
place to=20
    find a pattern for a 1920s cloche,
> preferrably online =
instructions,=20
    but anything would be nice.


D.L. Designs carries =
two=20
  different styles of cloche patterns; Alteryears carries these I'm =
pretty sure.=20
  Another option is buy a ready to trim hat. Leko has at least one hat =
in straw=20
  that would work http://www.hatsupply.com/undecorated3.htm.

=
Gwyn=20
  Carnegie
University of California, Davis=20



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 15:03:30 2003
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Gwyn Carnegie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:59:51 -0800
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..... and the gazillion sari shops on University Ave. in Berkeley 
(remembers the purple, rust, & black silk brocade we fell in love with?)

Yes, looking for fabric in Sacramento can be disappointing after living in 
LA but then again,  try to find reasonably priced housing and a commute of 
less then 30 minutes in LA **winks**

At 11:06 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:

>>I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I am 
>>going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes from 
>>the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  I am 
>>looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize that I 
>>am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, 
>>but I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  So 
>>please, for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information on 
>>good places to shop.
>
>General Bead (SF)
>Discount Fabrics - (two in SF, one in Berkeley)
>Stone Mountain and Daughters (Berkeley)
>Silk Road (Oakland)
>Poppy Fabrics (Oakland)
>Mendel's Far Out Fabrics (SF)
>Britex (SF - good but not cheap)
>Jessica McClintock outlet (in the city of South San Francisco)
>Hancock Fabric Warehouse (several locations)

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis
(who could never live in a city without trees again)

--=====================_14937312==.ALT
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..... and the gazillion sari shops on University Ave. in Berkeley
(remembers the purple, rust, & black silk brocade we fell in love
with?)


Yes, looking for fabric in Sacramento can be disappointing after living
in LA but then again,  try to find reasonably priced housing and a
commute of less then 30 minutes in LA **winks**


At 11:06 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:



I
have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I
am going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20
minutes from the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes
away.  I am looking for good stores where I can get decent
prices.  I realize that I am not going to be able to get the same
deals I was able to get in LA, but I need someplace to go that won't take
me all day to get to.  So please, for the sake of a fellow costumer,
please send me information on good places to shop.


General Bead (SF)

Discount Fabrics - (two in SF, one in Berkeley)

Stone Mountain and Daughters (Berkeley)

Silk Road (Oakland)

Poppy Fabrics (Oakland)

Mendel's Far Out Fabrics (SF)

Britex (SF - good but not cheap)

Jessica McClintock outlet (in the city of South San Francisco)

Hancock Fabric Warehouse (several locations)


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 

(who could never live in a city without trees again)




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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 15:06:32 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoe sizes, European USA
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:03:03 -0500
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Hm all I know is that UK size 3 means a 5 here in Canada (same as US sizes)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:01 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Shoe sizes, European USA


> Hi all,
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me as to what the USA shoe sizes are? Here in
> England we officially have sizes measured in centimetres, but almost
> all shoes also quote our original sizes alongside. But I have no idea
> what the US shoe sizes represent, which is a shame if I want to buy
> some on Ebay, and Googling isn't getting me anywhere...
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 15:09:39 2003
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From: "Talia" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Shoe sizes, European USA
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Hi Stevie,

This site has a conversion chart:

http://www.iftheshoefitsetc.com/chart.html

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Stevie Gamble
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:01 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Shoe sizes, European USA


Hi all,

Can anyone enlighten me as to what the USA shoe sizes are? Here in
England we officially have sizes measured in centimetres, but almost
all shoes also quote our original sizes alongside. But I have no idea
what the US shoe sizes represent, which is a shame if I want to buy
some on Ebay, and Googling isn't getting me anywhere...

best wishes
Stevie

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:06:17 -0000
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     I don't know if this will help - I wear a US women's size 10.  I just 
bought a pair of wellies in England that are size 41 or 7.  They are a bit 
large on me but fit very nicely with thick socks.

     -Carol

Stevie Gamble  said:

> Hi all,
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me as to what the USA shoe sizes are? Here in
> England we officially have sizes measured in centimetres, but almost
> all shoes also quote our original sizes alongside. But I have no idea
> what the US shoe sizes represent, which is a shame if I want to buy
> some on Ebay, and Googling isn't getting me anywhere...
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 



-- 



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 15:21:16 2003
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From: Lavolta Press 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:12:43 -0800
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There's also Bernie Norman (a discount upholstery and drapery fabric store) 
in San Mateo

Fabrix (a discount fabric store on Clement in San Francisco; I don't care 
much for it but it's very near Satin Moon, so worth checking out if you're 
going there anyway)

Calico Corners in Pleasant Hill

Cotton Patch in Lafayette

and several sari and Indian fabric stores on University Avenue in Berkeley.

Fran



>General Bead (SF)
>Discount Fabrics - (two in SF, one in Berkeley)
>Stone Mountain and Daughters (Berkeley)
>Silk Road (Oakland)
>Poppy Fabrics (Oakland)
>Mendel's Far Out Fabrics (SF)
>Britex (SF - good but not cheap)
>Jessica McClintock outlet (in the city of South San Francisco)
>Hancock Fabric Warehouse (several locations)
>
>Kayta
>
>    //// \\\
>   ////-@@\\\
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>   (((  <> ))))
>      )   ((((((
>/----\   /---\))
>
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoe sizes, European USA
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:10:54 -0800 (PST)
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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=UK+US+Shoe+size+chart


> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me as to what the USA shoe sizes are? Here in
> England we officially have sizes measured in centimetres, but almost
> all shoes also quote our original sizes alongside. But I have no idea
> what the US shoe sizes represent, which is a shame if I want to buy
> some on Ebay, and Googling isn't getting me anywhere...
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 15:23:41 2003
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From: "Kim Baird" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's
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The cover illustrations both show a cloches on the model and a cloche
would
hide my short, but definitely-not-a-bob, haircut. But I was hoping not
to
have to spend too much to finish off the outift. Would shaped felt be
more
appropriate, or could I get away with a knitted/crocheted hat for
evening
wear? _______________________________________________

For evening wear, a hat is not appropriate. In the 1920's there were
several interesting hair decorations for evening wear--headbands,
perhaps jeweled, with or without feathers or beads. But not a hat!

Kim

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 15:25:47 2003
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If we're going for a complete Bay Area list here, we also have JoAnn's!

Fran

At 11:30 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>there are three discount fabrics in SF, there's an additional one
>in the Outer Mission as well.


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From: Gwyn Carnegie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoe sizes, European USA
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http://about.nordstrom.com/help/find-your-fit/womens-shoes.asp
When I buy vintage shoes through ebay, I always make sure to get the 
measurements of the shoes. Doing the draft of the foot while you have your 
weight on it and then measuring makes quite a difference.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis


At 08:01 PM 2/20/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Can anyone enlighten me as to what the USA shoe sizes are? Here in
>England we officially have sizes measured in centimetres, but almost
>all shoes also quote our original sizes alongside. But I have no idea
>what the US shoe sizes represent, which is a shame if I want to buy
>some on Ebay, and Googling isn't getting me anywhere...
>
>best wishes
>Stevie

--=====================_16169312==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"





http://about.nordstrom.com/help/find-your-fit/womens-shoes.asp

When I buy vintage shoes through ebay, I always make sure to get the
measurements of the shoes. Doing the draft of the foot while you have
your weight on it and then measuring makes quite a difference.


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 




At 08:01 PM 2/20/2003 +0000, you wrote:


Hi all,


Can anyone enlighten me as to what the USA shoe sizes are? Here in

England we officially have sizes measured in centimetres, but 
almost

all shoes also quote our original sizes alongside. But I have no
idea

what the US shoe sizes represent, which is a shame if I want to buy

some on Ebay, and Googling isn't getting me anywhere...


best wishes

Stevie



--=====================_16169312==.ALT--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 15:31:46 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoe sizes, European USA
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http://www.dancesport.uk.com/shoes/conchart.htm

Has a nice chart into adult sizes


http://www.allaboutdance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=SIZING-SHOES

another nice site with conversions

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To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant
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I have found from working with little children for 14 years that most people
who have interest in fashion from a very early age. A lot of kids take
interest when they learn to dress themselves.  I have watched these kids
into adulthood and the interest stays with them.  Even though a parent can
buy nice clothing, it doesn't make them well dressed.  I think that talent
comes from within.  It is an ability to carry off a style.  I think a well
dressed person has a great deal of confidence in themselves.  The confidence
above all shines through all the clothing.

My fashion oriented son (now 26 y.o.) started at age three dressing himself.
I always claim that when I taught him to color coordinate his clothes, he
took it a little too seriously.  But middle school, he had to have
everything matching including his socks, hats, etc.  That moved into color
coordinated cars and now it is his house decor.  He has a vast wardrobe for
a man.  When I took his clothes to the Valentine for a donation they took
every piece he had including the collection of shoes and socks.  He had keep
all of his clothing from being a teenager in perfect condition.  He had so
many designer labels, it was unreal.  He purchased them with his own money,
so what can I say.

My Katie from being an infant was prissy. It is not an inherited trait...
she was adopted.  She enjoyed dressing up and still does.  She spends hours
practicing hairstyles and changes outfit combinations all day.  She never
leaves a room without a compliment about her hair or what she is wearing.
Does she dress to be noticed? No.  She dresses for herself.  I always say
she is a fashion statement from the minute she was born.  She doesn't dress
like anyone else in her class.  She has that wonderful talent of throwing
anything together and it looks good.  She starts conversations with
strangers about their wardrobe and hairstyles.  People just feel comfortable
to trust her judgement.  This blew me away, the first time she worked with
me on a dressing job.  Here was a big designer, listening to a 9 y.o. olds
fashion advice.  Models love working with her because she doesn't lie to
them or she will just start adjusting their clothing.  You should see her
tightening laces on ladies corsets. She is an artist and people are her
canvas!

The reason I told you this was to let you know that a lot of children show
their talents at an early age.  Read the bios on a lot of the designers.
Most of them started at a very early age.  Edith Head was a master at making
people feel good in what they wore.  That's why the actresses loved her.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 15:41:29 2003
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From: Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Enameling materials, free to good home...
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Wow, that was fast...  I've already gotten a couple of inquiries
about this!  So (pending further notice), they're spoken for.

Cheers,
Mara


--- Mara Riley  wrote:
> If anyone in reasonable driving distance from the Washington, DC
> area
> is interested in some enameling supplies (powders, some copper
> findings), please email me at corbiegirl@yahoo.com.  I inherited a
> bunch of this stuff when my Grandma was cleaning out her basement,
> and after a couple of years have decided I really have no intention
> of getting into enameling.
> 
> I _might_ be persuaded to part with the enameling kiln that she
> gave
> me, too, but think I'd like a bit of money for that...  I've been
> debating trying to use it for ceramics, eventually.  I suspect it
> needs a new power cord, however.
> 
> -- Mara
> 
> 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Northern CA Fabric Sources (Long)
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:48:57 -0800 (PST)
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Kayta wrote:

<>

I'm from SoCal, and still have family and friends down
there, so accommodations have never been an issue, and
the only problem with food is that we (me and Jakob,
my DH and willing BOB--Beast of Burden) are never down
there long enough to have lunch or dinner with
everybody we want to see.

As far as a "nice job," I'm a teacher in an urban
public high school. I love my job, but I don't see too
many people lining up to go into the classroom. ;-)

I literally can't afford not to buy fabric in LA. If I
had to pay the prices charged by places like Britex, I
couldn't afford to keep decent costumes on my back.

Now if I could just find the jobber that sells
time--cheap. 8-/

Dawn



=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From: GreyGoose 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: warning (was Re: [h-cost] silk parachutes
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030220110708.04acb9d0@mail.frys.com>
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:47:56 -0500 (EST)
Status: RO

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

> Land of Oz writes, in a message sent 03:00 PM 2/19/03 -0600:
> > > I believe many wartime wedding dresses were made from parachutes - very
> > > valuable "finds"!
>
> >It was lovely heavy slippery stuff though. The fire marshal came through for
> >inspections and made her take it down citing a fire hazard rule.
>
> They are treated with something that makes them burn VERY quickly, in case
> of landing in enemy territory, so DON'T use them for making garments.
>
> Kayta
>

It is good to know this, as I was the only producer of grand children for
my hubby's family, I inherited the parachute silk christening gown.  Since
it was only used twice, then washed, I think I'll mount it in a shadow box
and display this bit of family history.

Joanna

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Northern California Fabric Stores (long)
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Such as here, in the wilds of central PA. Nothing in this area except
JoAnn's and WalMart. I know there are tons of wonderful stores in
Philadelphia (about two-three hours away) but when you don't drive, and
hubby doesn't play...well...

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lavolta Press" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Northern California Fabric Stores (long)


> If you think the Bay Area has a poor selection of fabric stores, you
should
> see the laments on the general sewing newsgroups from the many people who
> have nothing at all in their area except a Joann's or a Wal-Mart.  I've
> always been able to find whatever I wanted locally (provided it's not some
> historic fabric that is no longer manufactured).
>
> Fran
>
> Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming
> http://www.lavoltapress.com
>
>
> >fabric stores.>>
> >
> >While I agree that the Bay Area might have a passable
> >selection of fabric stores
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Hi all,

Thank you! I am now, if not enlightened, then at least less baffled
than I was.

I've been galvanised into activity by the discovery that other people
are already making their costumes for the Friday Night Social. I am
still at the research stage; I've watched 'Some Like It Hot' 4
times...

best wishes
Stevie

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:56:13 -0800 (PST)
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Stevie wrote:

<>

Stevie--

One advantage to wearing jeans & trainers to work.
 Per the label inside my Reeboks:

USA--Size 8 1/2
UK--Size 6
Eur--39 (centimeters?)
CM--25.5

Hopefully this will serve as a "Shoe Rosetta Stone"
for you.

Dawn


=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 16:02:37 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:03:20 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

Hmmmm.

I got into historical clothing because I wanted to get as
far away from my mother's wardrobe and what she wanted me to
wear as I possibly could.  I was 'father's girl', and would
have worn nothing *but* jeans and Shetland sweaters if I
could have gotten away with it, but that was not to be until
I was out of high school.  I went through adolescence during
one of the most singularly awkward and ugly periods of
clothing, bar none, 1969/1973, which would have turned
anyone to looking elsewhere.  Especially when one is a very
self-conscious young teen.  

So - my own underlying reason for my interest in clothing (I
think, anyhow) is that I simply did not want to
be.like.my.mother.at.all.  Her stuff was all Chanel
knockoffs, ugly (to me) stuff from Saks and Neimans.  As far
as I'm concerned, (most) dignified clothing for women
disappeared around 1967 (at least inasmuch as what was
mass-marketed).  So, my mother was horrified when I wanted
either an 1850s crinoline and bodice or jeans and sweaters
rather than a mini and boots.  Thus began the Battle Of The
Closet.  Ergo, I was then everafter "dowdy" because I
wouldn't wear really short skirts.  

I think there's a grain of truth in "Women who go overboard
with fashion, are trying to make up for their inadquencies
with their father.  The father does the daughter wrong, and
she tries to dress overly *nice* so he will notice her." 
But (the character) is slightly off base - I think women who
are really over the top (in modern fashion) are trying to
get attention from the XY sector, period.  Just look around.
 

Did anyone else on this list have furious battles with their
mothers over clothes?  I always suspected that it wasn't
really the *clothes* we were arguing about, but rather that
I was refusing to be dressed and controlled like her paper
doll.


Meagn, at work on a rainy Thursday
(TudorLdy@aol.com)
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From: Robin Netherton 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoe sizes Thank you!
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:28:54 -0600 (CST)
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On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote:

> I've been galvanised into activity by the discovery that other people
> are already making their costumes for the Friday Night Social. I am
> still at the research stage; I've watched 'Some Like It Hot' 4
> times...

Already? I'm feeling dreadfully behind! Being rushed and low on funds, I
picked an easy period -- 1960s -- partly because the research is easy and
the patterns still readily available, and partly because I found the most
wonderful 60s-revival psychedelic fabric. I briefly considered using the
fabric for a Gothic fitted dress (Mod-ieval, get it?) but Karen
(seamstrix, one of the Costumecon planners) recoiled in horror at the
thought ;-) Real Mod will be faster, anyway.

--Robin

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:15:13 -0600
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>
> For evening wear, a hat is not appropriate. In the 1920's there were
> several interesting hair decorations for evening wear--headbands,
> perhaps jeweled, with or without feathers or beads. But not a hat!
>
> Kim
>

I'd thought about that looking at pictures online, but they always seemed to
go with the typical sleeveless "flapper" dress. This dress is probably
supposed to be more for daytime wearing, and thus I thought a cloche would
look better.

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
BRF FOF

A room without books is like a body without a soul
---Cicero

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 16:27:46 2003
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How odd!  When I was in school at FIDM, the design students wore baggy 
pants, old sweatshirts, baseball caps, and Docs. The merchandising students 
were the girls in suits and heels and the perfect hair every day.

At 06:46 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>In fact, when I was living in New York in my early twenties and attended The
>Fashion Institute of Technology, where my fellow classmates wore cocktail
>dresses to lectures. 
>Lisa

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis




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How odd!  When I was in school at FIDM, the design students wore
baggy pants, old sweatshirts, baseball caps, and Docs. The merchandising
students were the girls in suits and heels and the perfect hair every
day. 


At 06:46 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:


In fact, when I was living in New
York in my early twenties and attended The

Fashion Institute of Technology, where my fellow classmates wore
cocktail

dresses to lectures. <snip> 

Lisa


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 








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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 16:32:21 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Reproduction clocks & watches?
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This may not have any information you're looking for, but I've put up this book
on ebay.  Simon Willard and his Clocks.  He was an early (18th century)
American clockmaker.  I don't know if it has anything on watches or not (have
to look when I get home from work)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=278&item=3501949339&rd=1

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But Kim, I have a number of beaded cloche hats from the 20's and these would
never be worn as day wear.  I also have a number of the fancy head bands
that are the cliche of 20's headwear. They were usually worn with dance
costumes of the flapper type.
Kathleen                                                                    
                                                                            
                                                                            
                                                                            
                   --- Original Message -----
From: "Kim Baird" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's


>
> The cover illustrations both show a cloches on the model and a cloche
> would
> hide my short, but definitely-not-a-bob, haircut. But I was hoping not
> to
> have to spend too much to finish off the outift. Would shaped felt be
> more
> appropriate, or could I get away with a knitted/crocheted hat for
> evening
> wear? _______________________________________________
>
> For evening wear, a hat is not appropriate. In the 1920's there were
> several interesting hair decorations for evening wear--headbands,
> perhaps jeweled, with or without feathers or beads. But not a hat!
>
> Kim
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 16:46:30 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:40:55 -0600
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It's a matter of time and place, not of the dress. If you are at a party
or dance, whatever, in the evening, no hat. If it is a day time
function, then the hat is OK. A hat would be required for a garden
party, but would most like be a crepeline, with a large brin, rather
than a cloche.

We must be proper, you know!

Kim


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of lotsofteapots@charter.net
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:15 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's

>
> For evening wear, a hat is not appropriate. In the 1920's there were
> several interesting hair decorations for evening wear--headbands,
> perhaps jeweled, with or without feathers or beads. But not a hat!
>
> Kim
>

I'd thought about that looking at pictures online, but they always
seemed to
go with the typical sleeveless "flapper" dress. This dress is probably
supposed to be more for daytime wearing, and thus I thought a cloche
would
look better.

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
BRF FOF

A room without books is like a body without a soul
---Cicero

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************


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> But Kim, I have a number of beaded cloche hats from the 20's and these
would
> never be worn as day wear.  I also have a number of the fancy head bands
> that are the cliche of 20's headwear. They were usually worn with dance
> costumes of the flapper type.
> Kathleen
>
Ooooho - beads! What is the base of the hats? Still felt?

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
BRF FOF

A room without books is like a body without a soul
---Cicero

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************


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In a message dated 2/20/2003 5:17:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
lotsofteapots@charter.net writes:


> Ooooho - beads! What is the base of the hats? Still felt?
> 

Some, yes. But there are some with sheer or net foundations.

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In a message dated 2/20/2003 5:17:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, lo=
tsofteapots@charter.net writes:






Ooooho - beads! What is the bas=
e of the hats? Still felt?






Some, yes. But there are some with sheer or net foundations.

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's
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In a message dated 2/20/2003 4:14:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
kbaird@cableone.net writes:


> For evening wear, a hat is not appropriate. In the 1920's there were
> several interesting hair decorations for evening wear--headbands,
> perhaps jeweled, with or without feathers or beads. But not a hat!
> 

Indeed. Think beaded headband....over the forehead. In the film "Cotton Club" 
there are a lot [way too many] of beaded cloche-like head decorations, with 
like beaded tassels and fringe at each ear and over the forehead like bangs. 
This is way overused in the film but such things did exist. 
You could fashion yourself one out of maybe a glitzy, sparkly net cleverly 
decorated with already beaded appliques. It could end with a headband of wide 
ribbon [take a horizontal tuck CB and let it taper wide over the forehead] 
that links it in color to the dress. Put some of that beaded fringe I keep 
seeing in the craft section of Wal-mart for the hems of jeans and such, 
around the bottom....VOILA!

An exotic silk head rag, close to the head [not a turban] held with a sparkly 
broach works too. Like Angela Lansbury in "Death on the Nile".

--part1_11e.1e6e0784.2b86ad25_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 2/20/2003 4:14:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, kb=
aird@cableone.net writes:






For evening wear, a hat is not=20=
appropriate. In the 1920's there were

several interesting hair decorations for evening wear--headbands,

perhaps jeweled, with or without feathers or beads. But not a hat!






Indeed. Think beaded headband....over the forehead. In the film "Cotton Club=
" there are a lot [way too many] of beaded cloche-like head decorations, wit=
h like beaded tassels and fringe at each ear and over the forehead like bang=
s. This is way overused in the film but such things did exist. 

You could fashion yourself one out of maybe a glitzy, sparkly net cleverly d=
ecorated with already beaded appliques. It could end with a headband of wide=
 ribbon [take a horizontal tuck CB and let it taper wide over the forehead]=20=
that links it in color to the dress. Put some of that beaded fringe I keep s=
eeing in the craft section of Wal-mart for the hems of jeans and such, aroun=
d the bottom....VOILA!



An exotic silk head rag, close to the head [not a turban] held with a sparkl=
y broach works too. Like Angela Lansbury in "Death on the Nile".

--part1_11e.1e6e0784.2b86ad25_boundary--
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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In a message dated 2/20/2003 2:59:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, gacarnegie@ucdavis.edu writes:

> Yes, looking for fabric in Sacramento can be disappointing after living in LA but then again,  try to find reasonably priced housing and a commute of less then 30 minutes in LA 
> **winks**

That's not fair, I had a very reasonable apartment, just 4.2 miles (door-to-door) to my office.  Okay, sure they raised my rent to force me to move out, so they could turn my funky building into "deluxe apartments".  But, in LA I had a job!  Okay, so they laid me off...  But, I had But at least I could have gotten a call back.  :)

Everyone, thanks for the suggestions.  I will continue to scour the north for more shops, as I find places, I promise to repay the advice, by posting good finds.

Kit
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 18:04:41 2003
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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Shoe Sizes European, USA
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There is a conversion chart on my web site

www.turnshoes.co.uk

Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
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Company, unless specifically stated.



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 18:10:43 2003
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> I appreciate everyone's comments but please, let's remember, this is a
> TELEVISION SHOW. Nothing that anyone says about anything should be taken
as
> the truth, the writer writes whatever works for the story. I know, I know,
> television should be responsible and not present things as true that
aren't
> true, but they don't. Witness: every "reality show" ever made.

Also I think people are confusing "going overboard" with an interest. People
who go to extremes with something often *do* have a reason for doing so.

An obsession is not a healthy interest, being very keen for something is not
obsession. So I don't think anyone saying "my interest comes from...." is
really the point.

That said, I'd like to know what the script writers and editors were
reading;)

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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From: Shea Young 
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Subject: Re: warning (was Re: [h-cost] silk parachutes]
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Here's my 2 cents worth:
I ended up with 5 yards of the lovely stuff that was gifted to my Mother by a
wartime boyfriend. It had never been made into a parachute. I did a burn test
and there isn't any chemical smell. The boyfriend had a buddy that had a
buddy, etc. that worked where the parachutes were made. It was a very popular
"sweetheart" gift.

In the early '70s I used it and a 1940s pattern to make a waisted blouse.

Shea in raining Oregon


Carolyn Kayta Barrows  wrote:
> Land of Oz writes, in a message sent 03:00 PM 2/19/03 -0600:
> > > I believe many wartime wedding dresses were made from parachutes - very
> > > valuable "finds"!
> 
> >It was lovely heavy slippery stuff though. The fire marshal came through
for
> >inspections and made her take it down citing a fire hazard rule.
> 
> They are treated with something that makes them burn VERY quickly, in case 
> of landing in enemy territory, so DON'T use them for making garments.
> 
> Kayta
> 
>     //// \\\
>    ////-@@\\\
>   ((((   7 )))
>    (((  <> ))))
>       )   ((((((
> /----\   /---\))
> 
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Meagn,

Our (the 4 sisters) battles with mom was over makeup and she couldn't stand
people who dye their hair.  Mom did neither.  As adults 3 of the 4 sisters
have been a redhead at some point.  I have been one for about 10 years.
Unfortunately, we inherited Dad's pre-mature gray hair.  I am at 100% gray
now at 45 y.o.... but it is covered with red dye... all three feet of my
hair!

In the early 1970s when they allowed girls to wear pantsuits to school...
Dad was upset.  I remember him saying, "Your old-fashioned Welsh Grandmother
would have a heart attack to see you girls in pants in public."  He also
didn't like us wearing shorts around the same time.  My father was 30 years
older than Mom.  As a matter of fact, he would have been 100 y.o. last
Monday.   So he was a bit old-fashioned himself.

After Dad died in 1971, I have photos of all the sisters in halter tops and
hip huggers.  I loved both fashions.

Sorry, to carry on about Dad so much today... been thinking of him.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Meaghn wrote:

<>

Only in high school when I wanted to borrow her shoes,
and she wanted to borrow my plaid baggies (we were
both the same size then). The only other thing we
argued over was when I finally asserted myself at
about age 8 and stopped wearing pastels in favor of
dark jewel tones.

I was a clothes horse (no time now), but not to
attract my father's attention; as the only girl (I
have 3 brothers), I was always "Daddy's Princess"
until he died a couple years ago. Clothes were (and
are) more like wrapping paper--I happen to like fancy
wrappings on my packages, and I think most other
people do too!

I dress for: 1) me; 2) other people.

Dawn



=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] dressing up for school (was: A little Rant)
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When I was in college in Mississippi from 1976-78, we all dressed to the T
for school.  But the program was Fashion Merchandising, Marketing, and
Modeling.  All of us worked in clothing stores and went right to work after
school.  Plus we modeled on the side, so image was important.

When I was in Home Ec. Ed in New Mexico from 1981-82, no one dressed up to
go to school.  New Mexico is a very artsy culture.  I had enough dress up
events to go to at night because my husband was an officer in the Air Force
at the time.  Dressing up got old fast.

When I was at Virginia Commonwealth University from 1995-97 in Fashion
Merchandising... also took classes with the fashion design, costume design
in theater dept. and the majority of the fashion majors classes were with
the marketing students in the business school.  The only time people dressed
up was if they were going to work after class in all the different areas.
We would dress up for project presentation but it was business like.  Most
of the fashion majors I graduated with went on to work as buyers for large
dept. stores and HAD to dress up all the time.

Funny story here...
Two days before graduation, the fashion majors panicked because during
graduation, they would announce our dept. as fashion and we would have to
stand up.  WHAT were we going to wear!!!  All during classes we wore
t-shirts and jeans.  The business school majors thought we majored in
business.  No one knew we were fashion majors previously.  During graduation
was the first time we had all seen one another dressed up.  It was a hoot!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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When I was in college in Mississippi from 1976-78, we all dressed =
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and=20
Modeling.  All of us worked in clothing stores and went right to =
work after=20
school.  Plus we modeled on the side, so image was important.


 


When I was in Home Ec. Ed in New Mexico from 1981-82, no one =
dressed up to=20
go to school.  New Mexico is a very artsy culture.  I had =
enough dress=20
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When I was at Virginia Commonwealth University from 1995-97 in =
Fashion=20
Merchandising... also took classes with the fashion design, costume =
design in=20
theater dept. and the majority of the fashion majors classes=20
were with the marketing students in the business school.  =
The=20
only time people dressed up was if they were going to work after class =
in all=20
the different areas.  We would dress up for project presentation =
but it was=20
business like.  Most of the fashion majors I graduated with went on =
to work=20
as buyers for large dept. stores and HAD to dress up all the time.  =



 


Funny story here...  


Two days before graduation, the fashion majors panicked because =
during=20
graduation, they would announce our dept. as fashion and we would =
have to=20
stand up.  WHAT were we going to wear!!!  All during classes =
we wore=20
t-shirts and jeans.  The business school majors thought we majored =
in=20
business.  No one knew we were fashion majors previously.  =
During=20
graduation was the first time we had all seen one another dressed =
up.  It=20
was a hoot!


 


Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume =
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http://www.costumegallery.com =

http://www.costumeclassroom.com<=
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http://www.onlinecostumeball.co=
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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References:  <008901c2d935$4d7dcf60$57c1adcb@michaela>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: law and order
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:24:01 -0500
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> That said, I'd like to know what the script writers and editors were
> reading;)

Michaela,

Good point! I wonder the same thing too.  Who in the world did they talk to
for research for the show?  TV and film researchers/writers/producers and
authors contact me for research.  I only give them information that can
really be backed up with good documentation.

So who did they use?  I would love to know because I would never recommend
them.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "michaela" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: law and order


> > I appreciate everyone's comments but please, let's remember, this is a
> > TELEVISION SHOW. Nothing that anyone says about anything should be taken
> as
> > the truth, the writer writes whatever works for the story. I know, I
know,
> > television should be responsible and not present things as true that
> aren't
> > true, but they don't. Witness: every "reality show" ever made.
>
> Also I think people are confusing "going overboard" with an interest.
People
> who go to extremes with something often *do* have a reason for doing so.
>
> An obsession is not a healthy interest, being very keen for something is
not
> obsession. So I don't think anyone saying "my interest comes from...." is
> really the point.
>

>
> michaela
> http://recital.tripod.com/costume
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Thu Feb 20 19:42:36 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1943 underwear?
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> In this case, where would I find a girdle? I want the general look, it
> doesn't need to be accurate, nobody'll see it :-). Do they still sell good
> enough girdles in regular stores? (shows how much I know about lingerie!) Or
> should I try to get a vintage one?

I've found some at http://www.biggerbras.com/ and
http://www.firm-foundations.com

Here are some specific links of ones that I think would be suitable...
but take my suggestions with a grain of salt as I am not an expert on
the 40s.

http://www.biggerbras.com/rago/rgo001_1359_plus_size_catalogs.shtml
http://www.biggerbras.com/rago/rgo002_1365_womens_plus_size_clothes.shtml
http://www.biggerbras.com/rago/rgo030_9357_open_bottom_corselette.shtml
http://www.biggerbras.com/bali/bal005_3300_bra_sizes.shtml

Many online sites have a "shapewear" section... look for the "firm"
items.  The designs seem to be fairly similar to the 40s/50s... I think
they're aiming mostly at the "granny" market, for want of a better tern.
Other terms to look for are "corselette", "girdle", etc.  There are also
"panty-girdles" which are kind of like over-the-top bike shorts.  Since
the 40s saw women wearing pants, they might have been wearing these
underneath.

K.

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Subject: [h-cost] Extremely OT, but...extra ticket to the Vienna Opera ball Feb 27th
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:41:35 -0500
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--============_-1166658392==_ma============
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Hi everyone!

Sorry this is off-topic a bit, but thought maybe someone in this 
group might be interested in going since you may have the dresses 
already... :)

Those of you who know people in Vienna (or elsewhere in Europe) who 
might be interested in attending the Vienna Opera Ball at the opera 
house on short notice - in a week and a half - I just wanted to let 
you know my date just had to cancel unexpectedly and I am stuck 
holding a $350 Ball ticket if anyone would be interested in attending.

I'd prefer a male (to dance with - does he know the Viennese waltz by 
any chance? No matter, there are additional dance floors and other 
casual dances like salsa, disco, etc, - ha!) but wouldn't be opposed 
to a lady coming along who'd like to experience it too.

If coming from the States, it's not too late to book a cheap flight - 
as recently as last night a mid-week to mid-week flight was coming up 
at $372, $460 if a weekend-to-weekend departure/return.

Men are wearing white-tie and tails and patent leather shoes and 
white gloves, women in evening dress, period dress or modern 
floor-length dress seem to be equally acceptable (I'm going on 
half-information here :)

Passport is needed (of course :)

I agree it is the ultimate in last-minute-long-shot offers, but I 
just thought I'd ask you if you might know of anyone. I'm going 
regardless, but these tickets were hard to get and it's sold out now 
so it'd be great if someone else wanted to join us (there are 4 of 
us, we have a table and everything.)

The event is Feb 27th, Thursday, 9pm dancing until the wee hours. 
Ticket includes entry and reserved table - dinner and drinks extra 
(we're eating beforehand). My father speaks German so he will help 
us/you get around if need be -- we arrive into Vienna on Wed Feb 26th 
and depart on Saturday Mar 1.

Thank you for any suggestions or recommendations for people who might 
be interested - thanks!

Since time is running out, I can be reached at 1.212.979.0490 or my 
father (in Switzerland - he is the one who has the tickets under his 
name) at 011 41 21 961 1352. I'm on email several times a day as 
well. (There is no markup on the ticket other than what we are 
paying, just fyi :)

Please email to me directly rather than the list, at 
michiko@michiko.com - thank you!


Thanks for your help!

Best regards,
Michiko




more info below, if interested :)

FWD



About the Ball:

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1605/balloper.htm
(scroll down for photos of dignitaries, debutantes, Joan Collins 
(ha!) and rumor is that Pamela Anderson will be attending this year 
as well - is that a plus or minus? Anyway, I think she's cool so I'll 
of course encourage you to ask her to dance!)

http://www.wiener-staatsoper.at/Content.Node2/home/opernball/192.php
(this one is in German, so you you want to have it translated go to:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr
and type in the wiener-staatsoper website to translate it from German 
to English...well, kinda :)



Getting There:

http://www.expedia.com has the best fares it seems, from JFK to 
Vienna airport (arriving before Feb 27th to allow you to get over the 
6 hour jetlag (6 hours ahead) -- my father and I will get into Vienna 
Feb 26th (the day before) if you want to synch up with that so my Dad 
can help you out since he speaks German -- nice guy, funny, 
irreverent by the way. Stepmom is nice too - they're goofballs and it 
should be fun - I'll see if I can find  a photo of them to attach) 
Also, you can try www.Orbitz.com and www.Travelocity.com but I got 
the best rate for JFK-Geneva yesterday on Expedia. (Expedia also 
sometimes lets you place free reservations for 24 hours, which helps 
:)

Money-saving tips for airfare: Book more than 7 days in advance and 
the prices are really cheap. Less than 7 days in about $20 more so 
far, and the day or two before is about $1100. Flying T-Th are the 
cheapest days.



Where to Stay:
The youth hostel is near the center of the city and the opera house 
and we could of course help get you from there to the Ball if that's 
any consolation.

 From my friend in Vienna, on hostels back when I was looking:
>So I was looking for hostels for you. I could find and talk to the 
>West City Hostel which is in a very nice area and close to 
>transportation. A single room would cost 35,-US$ per night incl. 
>breakfast. Then there is another hostel, also close to the center, 
>close to bus they only have 4 and 6 bed rooms, which cost 14,- US$ 
>per night incl. breakfast. I will further look around if there are 
>any other hostels.


So theoretically you could fly into Vienna say Tues 25th or Wed 26th 
for $397 r/t or so (just got this quote on Orbitz since the Expedia 
site was momentarily swamped -- T-W-Th flights are cheapest), book 
your hostel online in advance and either get the private room or the 
group dorm room which isn't too bad (let's say $14 per night) and 
return on that following Tuesday (if you can take time off work.) 
That'd be 8-9 nights in the hostel at about $14 = approx $112-$126.

If you were concerned about your luggage or anything while at the 
hostel (though a lot of times they have safes and all that, and 
Austria is known for clean well-run hostels I'm told :), I would be 
happy to keep it safe in my hotel room, if that helps, and we could 
get ready there etc. if that's a little more glamorous than a hostel 
for ya :)

Also, you could stay the first night in a hostel till you get your 
bearings and can see which hotel you'd like to pick for the remaining 
nights...I'm an old-fashioned gal otherwise I'd say just stay in my 
room, but um...er, no offense! :)



What to Wear :)
Ladies have to wear floor length ballgowns, guys wear white tie with 
tails, white gloves, and, possibly importantly for admission to the 
event (not sure yet how strict they are going to be on this) 
"non-rubber-soled shoes". I think this means no sneakers because the 
turns of the Viennese waltz are not possible with sticky shoes, but 
also some purists and hardcore dance floor places won't let in street 
shoes because of scuffing the fine woods. I don't know how uptight 
they'll be but my guess is you can get the right sort of shoe from 
the same place where you rent your white tie and tails? Important: 
don't ask for a "tux" as that is strictly an American look (black 
tie, dinner jacket) and they want the tails, white tie, gloves 
European thing goin' on :) Patent leather shoes may be nice but not 
required. A coat you can wear with it (though I may be wearing my 
crappy usual coat and just tucking it into the coat check right away 
before anyone can see it - heh :)

(Any questions, let me know - thanks! :)

-- Michiko
-- 




----------------------------------------
Michiko Stehrenberger
Illustration & Character Design
BimBionic Design Lab | New York
http://www.michiko.com
----------------------------------------
--============_-1166658392==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"


Extremely OT, but...extra ticket to the Vienna
Opera b

Hi everyone!





Sorry this is off-topic a bit, but thought maybe someone in this
group might be interested in going since you may have the dresses
already... :)





Those of you who know people in Vienna (or elsewhere in Europe)
who might be interested in attending the Vienna Opera Ball at the
opera house on short notice - in a week and a half - I just wanted to
let you know my date just had to cancel unexpectedly and I am stuck
holding a $350 Ball ticket if anyone would be interested in
attending.





I'd prefer a male (to dance with - does he know the Viennese
waltz by any chance? No matter, there are additional dance floors and
other casual dances like salsa, disco, etc, - ha!) but wouldn't be
opposed to a lady coming along who'd like to experience it too.





If coming from the States, it's not too late to book a cheap
flight - as recently as last night a mid-week to mid-week flight was
coming up at $372, $460 if a weekend-to-weekend
departure/return.





Men are wearing white-tie and tails and patent leather shoes and
white gloves, women in evening dress, period dress or modern
floor-length dress seem to be equally acceptable (I'm going on
half-information here :)





Passport is needed (of course :)





I agree it is the ultimate in last-minute-long-shot offers, but I
just thought I'd ask you if you might know of anyone. I'm going
regardless, but these tickets were hard to get and it's sold out now
so it'd be great if someone else wanted to join us (there are 4 of us,
we have a table and everything.)





The event is Feb 27th, Thursday, 9pm dancing until the wee hours.
Ticket includes entry and reserved table - dinner and drinks extra
(we're eating beforehand). My father speaks German so he will help
us/you get around if need be -- we arrive into Vienna on Wed Feb 26th
and depart on Saturday Mar 1.





Thank you for any suggestions or recommendations for people who
might be interested - thanks!





Since time is running out, I can be reached at
1.212.979.0490 or my father (in Switzerland - he is the one who
has the tickets under his name) at 011 41 21 961 1352. I'm on
email several times a day as well. (There is no markup on the ticket
other than what we are paying, just fyi :)





Please email to me directly rather than the list, at
michiko@michiko.com - thank you!








Thanks for your help!





Best regards,


Michiko














more info below, if interested :)





FWD











About the Ball:





http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1605/balloper.htm


(scroll down for photos of dignitaries, debutantes, Joan Collins
(ha!) and rumor is that Pamela Anderson will be attending this year as
well - is that a plus or minus? Anyway, I think she's cool so I'll of
course encourage you to ask her to dance!)





http://www.wiener-staatsoper.at/Content.Node2/home/opernball/192.php


(this one is in German, so you you want to have it translated go
to:


http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr


and type in the wiener-staatsoper website to translate it from
German to English...well, kinda :)











Getting There:





http://www.expedia.com has the best fares it seems, from
JFK to Vienna airport (arriving before Feb 27th to allow you to get
over the 6 hour jetlag (6 hours ahead) -- my father and I will get
into Vienna Feb 26th (the day before) if you want to synch up with
that so my Dad can help you out since he speaks German -- nice guy,
funny, irreverent by the way. Stepmom is nice too - they're goofballs
and it should be fun - I'll see if I can find  a photo of them to
attach) Also, you can try www.Orbitz.com and
www.Travelocity.com but I got the best rate for JFK-Geneva
yesterday on Expedia. (Expedia also sometimes lets you place free
reservations for 24 hours, which helps :)





Money-saving tips for airfare: Book more than 7 days in advance
and the prices are really cheap. Less than 7 days in about $20 more so
far, and the day or two before is about $1100. Flying T-Th are the
cheapest days.











Where to Stay:


The youth hostel is near the center of the city and the opera
house and we could of course help get you from there to the Ball if
that's any consolation.





From my friend in Vienna, on hostels back when I was
looking:


So I was looking for hostels for
you. I could find and talk to the West City Hostel which is in a very
nice area and close to transportation. A single room would cost
35,-US$ per night incl. breakfast. Then there is another hostel, also
close to the center, close to bus they only have 4 and 6 bed rooms,
which cost 14,- US$ per night incl. breakfast. I will further look
around if there are any other hostels.









So theoretically you could fly into Vienna say Tues 25th or Wed
26th for $397 r/t or so (just got this quote on Orbitz since the
Expedia site was momentarily swamped -- T-W-Th flights are cheapest),
book your hostel online in advance and either get the private room or
the group dorm room which isn't too bad (let's say $14 per night) and
return on that following Tuesday (if you can take time off work.) 
That'd be 8-9 nights in the hostel at about $14 = approx
$112-$126.





If you were concerned about your luggage or anything while at the
hostel (though a lot of times they have safes and all that, and
Austria is known for clean well-run hostels I'm told :), I would be
happy to keep it safe in my hotel room, if that helps, and we could
get ready there etc. if that's a little more glamorous than a hostel
for ya :)





Also, you could stay the first night in a hostel till you get
your bearings and can see which hotel you'd like to pick for the
remaining nights...I'm an old-fashioned gal otherwise I'd say just
stay in my room, but um...er, no offense! :)











What to Wear :)


Ladies have to wear floor length ballgowns, guys wear white tie
with tails, white gloves, and, possibly importantly for admission to
the event (not sure yet how strict they are going to be on this)
"non-rubber-soled shoes". I think this means no sneakers
because the turns of the Viennese waltz are not possible with sticky
shoes, but also some purists and hardcore dance floor places won't let
in street shoes because of scuffing the fine woods. I don't know how
uptight they'll be but my guess is you can get the right sort of shoe
from the same place where you rent your white tie and tails?
Important: don't ask for a "tux" as that is strictly an
American look (black tie, dinner jacket) and they want the tails,
white tie, gloves European thing goin' on :) Patent leather shoes may
be nice but not required. A coat you can wear with it (though I may be
wearing my crappy usual coat and just tucking it into the coat check
right away before anyone can see it - heh :)





(Any questions, let me know - thanks! :)





-- Michiko



-- 









----------------------------------------

Michiko Stehrenberger

Illustration & Character Design

BimBionic Design Lab | New York 

http://www.michiko.com

----------------------------------------



--============_-1166658392==_ma============--
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoe sizes, European USA
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:19:27 -0600
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Greetings,

I believe that this one is more correct
http://www.dancesport.uk.com/shoes/conchart.htm

than
>http://about.nordstrom.com/help/find-your-fit/womens-shoes.asp

I'm a North American size 11-11 1/2 and I wear a 43 Birkenstock or a 9 in 
most English shoes.

Cheers,
Danielle

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From: "Cabbage Rose" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA
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And a "Fabrics R Us" in San Jose
They carry a lot of high end stuff, like the velvets Dawn mentioned, at
better prices than Discount Fabrics. Velvets and brocades there are in the
$8-11 range.  Of course, if James gets to know you...

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com

Theatrical Costume Design
"All the world's a stage,
and all the men and women merely players.
They have their exits and their entrances;
and one man in his time plays many parts."
W. Shakespeare
QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes
FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lavolta Press" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA


> If we're going for a complete Bay Area list here, we also have JoAnn's!
>
> Fran
>
> At 11:30 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >there are three discount fabrics in SF, there's an additional one
> >in the Outer Mission as well.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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The young men who own Silk Road in Oakland are very often willing to =
dicker on their pricing. You can almost always get 10% off, even if they =
are already running a special (usually 10%, but sometimes 20%)

They have magnificent taste in cut velvets and silks.  To die for and =
pretty decent pricing to begin with.

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes=20
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"And thus I clothe my naked villany
 With odd old ends stoln' forth of holy writ,
 And seem a saint when most I play the devil"
Richard III, I, iii - W. Shakespeare


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Saragrace Knauf=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 6:09 PM
  Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA


  Gosh, if you go up to the bay area, there are lots of great places.  =
Stone Mountain & Daughter, Silk Road..I actually liked SM&D  better than =
Britex and I thought their prices were better.

  =20

  Sg

  =20

  -----Original Message-----
  From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On =
Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo
  Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 7:00 PM
  To: h-costume@indra.com
  Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA

  =20

  Hi Kit!

  =20

  I too welcome you to Sacramento.  Shopping here is the pits!  The best =
place I have found here is:

  =20

  Hi-Fashion Fabrics=20
  4106 Franklin Boulevard, Sacramento, CA 95820=20
  (916) 451-5648=20
  =20

  they sell silks, wools, etc.  The store is located in a run down and =
impoverished part of town, but it is the best place to find quality =
natural fiber fabric.  I took a trip over the weekend and paid a visit =
to Thai Silks in Los Altos, great selection and good prices on silk, not =
much else and of course there is always Britex in San Francisco.  Not a =
discount place, parking will probably cost you $30 before you walk in =
the door, but it is fabric heaven. =20

  =20

  A five and a half hour drive might just be worth the trip.

  =20

  Cheers!

  =20

  Lisa

    ----- Original Message -----=20

    From: Kitsune242@aol.com=20

    To: h-costume@indra.com=20

    Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:48 AM

    Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA

    =20

    Greetings one and all!

    I am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but =
hopefully you will forgive me.

    I have recently moved to Sacramento from Burbank.  Needless to say I =
am going through fabric shopping withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes =
from the Garment District in LA, now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  =
I am looking for good stores where I can get decent prices.  I realize =
that I am not going to be able to get the same deals I was able to get =
in LA, but I need someplace to go that won't take me all day to get to.  =
So please, for the sake of a fellow costumer, please send me information =
on good places to shop.

    Thanks in advance,
    Kit

    PS - I am currently unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a =
whole lot of heavy duty shopping anytime soon.=20

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The young men who own Silk Road in =
Oakland are=20
very often willing to dicker on their pricing. You can almost always get =
10%=20
off, even if they are already running a special (usually 10%, but =
sometimes=20
20%)


 


They have magnificent taste in cut velvets and =
silks.  To=20
die for and pretty decent pricing to begin with.


 


angela


+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes =

http://www.cabbagerosecostume=
s.com
Theatrical=20
Costume Design


 


"And thus I clothe my naked villany
 With =
odd old ends=20
stoln' forth of holy writ,
 And seem a saint when most I play =
the=20
devil"
Richard III, I, iii - W. Shakespeare


 


 



------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C2D908.8D03AFB0--

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Subject: [h-cost] Re: shoe measurement conversions
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:57:06 -0500
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I have two pairs of shoes in my house which both bear the Eur. size as 
5.5, one is a US 6.5, the other is a US 8.  The UK size varies by either 
1.5 or 2 (can't remember for certain).  They were bought about 2 years 
apart.

US sizes *have* changed in the last 15 years... double-checked with a 
shoe store last week out of curiosity... and two of the clerks there 
(who have been selling for longer) confirmed that women's shoe sizes (at 
least) have changed by a whole size (to larger numbers) in that time. 
 Explains at least part of how my feet were a 5.5 US from 8th grade 
through my 3rd year of college, and are now anywhere between a 7 and an 
8 depending on the company and the last.

So....  I don't think there actually *is* a truely "accurate" 
conversion... though you could probably get pretty close with some that 
are out there.  I know that the Birkenstock site (at least) has the 
conversion on its site.

*Some* places will also work with a drawn outline of your foot to give 
you the best shoe fit.

-Liz  (currently still in search for a new pair of "museum shoes" for 
standing and walking slowly while doing tours or being in one room... 
this time the search has only been 3 months so far... took a year and a 
half to find a decent pair last time... comfortable nice shoes are 
*hard* to find)

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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] parents/clothes battles
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From: "Meagn Maguire"
>
> Did anyone else on this list have furious battles with their
> mothers over clothes?  I always suspected that it wasn't
> really the *clothes* we were arguing about, but rather that
> I was refusing to be dressed and controlled like her paper
> doll.
>
When I was in second grade, fishnet stockings were the rage, and my mother
refused to let me where them, and my asking her upset her even more.  Her
reason for denial was that the texture of the stockings would hurt my feet
when I walked on them and boy did the tears flow.  If course I realize now
that she didn't want me to look like a hooker, but mom wasn't the type to
explain those sorts of things.

Lisa


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] dressing up for school (was: A little Rant)
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Graphic design students wore the baggy pants, and yes, it was the =
merchandising students who dressed to the nines.  You know, I was so =
full of my self in judging them then.  They were having the best =
time!!!! =20

Lisa
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Gwyn Carnegie=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:27 PM
  Subject: [h-cost] dressing up for school (was: A little Rant)



  How odd!  When I was in school at FIDM, the design students wore baggy =
pants, old sweatshirts, baseball caps, and Docs. The merchandising =
students were the girls in suits and heels and the perfect hair every =
day.=20

  At 06:46 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:

    In fact, when I was living in New York in my early twenties and =
attended The
    Fashion Institute of Technology, where my fellow classmates wore =
cocktail
    dresses to lectures. =20
    Lisa

  Gwyn Carnegie
  University of California, Davis=20





------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C2D90C.3F5EAF40
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Graphic design students wore the baggy =
pants, and=20
yes, it was the merchandising students who dressed to the nines.  =
You know,=20
I was so full of my self in judging them then.  They were having =
the best=20
time!!!!  


 


Lisa


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Gwyn=20
  Carnegie 
  
  
Sent: Thursday, February 20, =
2003 1:27=20
  PM

  
Subject: [h-cost] dressing up =
for school=20
  (was: A little Rant)

  


How odd!  When I was in school at FIDM, the =
design=20
  students wore baggy pants, old sweatshirts, baseball caps, and Docs. =
The=20
  merchandising students were the girls in suits and heels and the =
perfect hair=20
  every day. 

At 06:46 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:

  
In fact, when I was =
living in New=20
    York in my early twenties and attended The
Fashion Institute of=20
    Technology, where my fellow classmates wore cocktail
dresses to =
lectures.=20
    <snip> 
Lisa

Gwyn Carnegie
University=20
  of California, Davis =






------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C2D90C.3F5EAF40--


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:03:23 -0500
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The beaded hats are indeed on a heavy net ground and lined with silk after
beading was finished.  Another in my collection is made of silver mesh. One
of the more interesting evening hats is fashioned of gold metallic brocade
with the front edge from ear to ear a black lace flounce. It is about 3' on
the left side and tapers to about 1 1/2" on the right, and this is edged
with gold metallic beads. Among the felts, there is a spoon shape of coffee
color that is intricately covered with chenille stems in brown and ivory in
an all over scroll design.  Someone else mentioned that the felt models
often have cutouts of leaves or floral motifs and these can be Cutout (a la
cutwork 'lace') or felt cuts applied to the hat for trim.  For your Vogue
dress, I would think spring and 'airy'. If you do decide on trying felt, try
to keep it close to the color of your dress and not a contrast.  The
georgette is pretty delicate.  Horsehair braid if you can find it would be
nice...styled as a cloche or flared brim.  This is the sort of bridesmaid
hat I referred to earlier. The Dover issue of Sears fashions 0f the 1920s
show a couple of the shapes I have in mind .  As I've already said, use your
imagination and have fun! Just make sure the hat fits low enough to look the
time period.  Kathleen   And don't forget your long pearls!
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's


>
>
>
> > But Kim, I have a number of beaded cloche hats from the 20's and these
> would
> > never be worn as day wear.  I also have a number of the fancy head bands
> > that are the cliche of 20's headwear. They were usually worn with dance
> > costumes of the flapper type.
> > Kathleen
> >
> Ooooho - beads! What is the base of the hats? Still felt?
>
> **********************
> Rebecca Schmitt
> aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
> BRF FOF
>
> A room without books is like a body without a soul
> ---Cicero
>
> lotsofteapots@charter.net
> **********************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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The beaded hats are indeed on a heavy net ground and lined with silk after
beading was finished.  Another in my collection is made of silver mesh. One
of the more interesting evening hats is fashioned of gold metallic brocade
with the front edge from ear to ear a black lace flounce. It is about 3' on
the left side and tapers to about 1 1/2" on the right, and this is edged
with gold metallic beads. Among the felts, there is a spoon shape of coffee
color that is intricately covered with chenille stems in brown and ivory in
an all over scroll design.  Someone else mentioned that the felt models
often have cutouts of leaves or floral motifs and these can be Cutout (a la
cutwork 'lace') or felt cuts applied to the hat for trim.  For your Vogue
dress, I would think spring and 'airy'. If you do decide on trying felt, try
to keep it close to the color of your dress and not a contrast.  The
georgette is pretty delicate.  Horsehair braid if you can find it would be
nice...styled as a cloche or flared brim.  This is the sort of bridesmaid
hat I referred to earlier. The Dover issue of Sears fashions 0f the 1920s
show a couple of the shapes I have in mind .  As I've already said, use your
imagination and have fun! Just make sure the hat fits low enough to look the
time period.  Kathleen   And don't forget your long pearls!
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's


>
>
>
> > But Kim, I have a number of beaded cloche hats from the 20's and these
> would
> > never be worn as day wear.  I also have a number of the fancy head bands
> > that are the cliche of 20's headwear. They were usually worn with dance
> > costumes of the flapper type.
> > Kathleen
> >
> Ooooho - beads! What is the base of the hats? Still felt?
>
> **********************
> Rebecca Schmitt
> aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
> BRF FOF
>
> A room without books is like a body without a soul
> ---Cicero
>
> lotsofteapots@charter.net
> **********************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:21:39 -0500
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> Did anyone else on this list have furious battles with their
> mothers over clothes?

Very rarely. We have the same tastes in clothing, to the point where once in
a while she comes home with a new skirt and I go "Oh I was going to try that
one - too late now!".

She doesn't share my taste for costuming accuracy, though. Tight
undergarments is something she has in horror, maybe because she saw the
"revolution" first-hand. She was born in 46, so that might explain why her
approach to clothing is so comfort-oriented. She is always very elegant
though. I hope this rubs off on me enough that I will be elegant too when
I'm her age.
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On Thursday 20 February 2003 04:03 pm, Meagn Maguire wrote:
> Hmmmm.
>[text cut here]

>
> Did anyone else on this list have furious battles with their
> mothers over clothes?  I always suspected that it wasn't
> really the *clothes* we were arguing about, but rather that
> I was refusing to be dressed and controlled like her paper
> doll.

Nope, not at all.  From the time I was old enough to care about what I wanted 
to wear, Mom always let me choose my clothes (even though she was the one 
paying for them, back then).  When I first became interested in historic 
costuming, she encouraged me, taught me how to use her sewing machine, and at 
first did all the difficult parts (which was tough for her, because although 
she worked in a dress factory, she didn't know anything about tailoring and 
wasn't accustomed to making clothes from patterns on a regular basis).  

I still miss her.  

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
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On Thursday 20 February 2003 06:55 pm, Penny Ladnier wrote:
> Meagn,
>
> Our (the 4 sisters) battles with mom was over makeup and she couldn't stand
> people who dye their hair.  Mom did neither.  As adults 3 of the 4 sisters
> have been a redhead at some point.  I have been one for about 10 years.
> Unfortunately, we inherited Dad's pre-mature gray hair.  I am at 100% gray
> now at 45 y.o.... but it is covered with red dye... all three feet of my
> hair!

Good for you!  I'm glad to know I'm not the only person persistently dyeing 
all of my long (but not 3 ft. by any means) hair red!
-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 21 01:11:58 2003
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From: Sue Clemenger 
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:11:58 -0700
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I've been lurking and reading the posts on this one all day....
I guess I'm the only (female) one on here who wasn't a daddy's girl.  Of
course, I wasn't a mommy's girl either.  My parents and I weren't
exactly close.....
I didn't get into costuming and needlework at all for the fashion
bits--I've never been a fashion maven, and have always been more prone
to wear jeans and tee shirts, sit on the floor, and get things dirty
(not necessarily in that order! ).  No way am I a girly-girl--that
would be my younger sister, Cris, who has a lovely sense of style, and
the budget and body to go with....
My mom wasn't really a sewer (she *definitely* didn't have the
patience), although we had a sewing machine.  I'm actually self-taught,
plus a little from 4-H (sorry, here, to the non-Americans....I don't
know that other countries have 4-H equivalents....it's a club for farm
kids, mostly).  And about the only clothes-related fight I remember
having with my folks revolved around my wearing nasty, overly-long
"fringy" jeans to school...the fringe must have driven them *insane*
because they tackled me one morning as I was going out the door to catch
the bus, and cut off all the fringe, while everyone on the bus stared
and watched.  ugh.
I got into costuming because I love working with my hands--especially
when it's textile-related.  There's just something about fabric and
thread....*happy sigh*....It has color, and texture, and smell, and you
can move it around in more than 2 dimensions.  Making historical
clothing allows me all the handmade satisfaction, plus it throws in
historical research as a huge bonus.
Sure, some women are trying to get Daddy's attention, or the attention
of any man/person with power.  And fashion/clothing/makeup's a pretty
acceptable way for women to do that--it involves being part of our
consumer economy, focusing on looks, etc.  I think the key to your quote
from L&O (and I didn't happen to see that episode) is the "overboard"
part.  The character wasn't saying _anyone_ who goes into fashion (as a
career, or a hobby, or whatever) is trying to get attention.  Perhaps,
though, it's those people who let it take over their lives, like any
other addiction or maladaptive behavior, that he was referring to?
--sue



Penny Ladnier wrote:
> 

> So how many of you ladies out there had father's who ignored you and this is
> why you got into fashion?  So do the guys who are into fashion had mother's
> who ignored them?
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From: "Janet Davis" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Northern California Fabric Stores (long)
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> If you think the Bay Area has a poor selection of fabric stores, you
should
> see the laments on the general sewing newsgroups from the many people who
> have nothing at all in their area except a Joann's or a Wal-Mart.

Having moved to a place like that about 7 years ago, all I can say is "Thank
God for the internet."  Although occasionally something is not quite what I
wanted when it comes (since I couldn't feel it or see the real color), I am
doing more and more of my shopping on-line.

Janet

Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.com

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From: "Jennifer Sena" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] parents/clothes battles
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>
> > Did anyone else on this list have furious battles with their
> > mothers over clothes?

> >
>When I was in second grade, fishnet stockings were the rage

course I realize now
>that she didn't want me to look like a hooker, but mom wasn't the type to
>explain those sorts of things.

My problem wasn't really my mom, but my dad!!  There were colors, shapes, 
sizes, etc. all over the place that nice girls just don't wear.  I started 
making my own clothes in the eighth grade due to financial issues, but I 
have never regretted being able to make and wear whatever I d****d well 
please.



Jennifer Sena
Distant Designs
http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi

I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!!






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Greetings,

Is there anyone out there who is in the Twin Cities (Minnesota) area who 
could help me resolve some fitting issues?  I've been trying to fit myself 
for a couple of things (*supposed* to be for CostumeCon)and am getting 
pretty frustrated.... Help?

Cheers,
Danielle

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OK, I have no idea what happened to the post!  I'll try again.

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OK, I have no idea what happened to the post!  I'=
ll try again.



Very confused,



Nancy Stengel Ulmer

(Maddalena Salutati)

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Hopefully this will work. =20

Although the following discussion is based on current, not historical usage=20
of fur, I thought people might find it interesting.=A0 A friend who is=20
currently working on her dissertation in Siberia sent it to me.=A0=20

FUR:
This is much more common in Russia (both Moscow and Irkutsk) than in New=20
York, and probably more common here even than in more northern parts of the=20
US (Maine, Minnesota, Vermont, etc.).  People walk around on the streets=20
wearing fur coats, fur hats, fur mittens, and even fur boots (not necessaril=
y=20
all on the same person).  The anti-fur movement would have a tough time here=
.=20
 They have had significant success in the States in large part because they=20
are able to portray fur as a luxury or vanity item, a means of conspicuous=20
consumption.  Certainly they play up the cruelty aspect, along with the=20
animal-cuteness factor; still, there are far more Americans who would "never=
=20
wear fur" than who would never eat meat or wear leather, even though the=20
cruelty factor would seem to apply equally to the latter cases.  But fur has=
=20
been successfully portrayed as something that few people can afford and=20
nobody needs.  This is not the image it has in Russia.  I'm not sure about=20
the affordability part - it's certainly not cheap.  My guess is that it is=20
seen as an expensive necessity, and somewhat of a long-term investment. =20
There's certainly a lot of it around.  Offhand, I'd say that well over half=20
the people on the street wear fur hats, and maybe one-quarter wear fur coats=
.=20
  That latter number increases significantly if you include sheepskin/=20
shearling, which is the most common "fur" for coats here. My rough survey on=
=20
the Moscow subway suggests that a 6-person bench would have 3 people in=20
sheepskin coats, 2 in fur, and 4 or 5 with fur hats.  Also popular is=20
sheepskin trimmed with some other fur at the cuffs and collar, or the rim of=
=20
the hood.  (Hoods on fur coats are very common.)  Moreover, here in Siberia,=
=20
fur is not only what people wear in the winter; it's also an important local=
=20
industry.  While fur coats in Moscow shops may be imported from Italy (which=
=20
has struck me as rather a coals-to-Newcastle thing), fur shops here have tag=
s=20
indicating not only the type of fur, but that it comes from Irkutsk oblast.=20=
=20
Just down the street from where I'm living is a good-sized building labeled=20
"Mekha Sibiri" (Furs of Siberia).  I don't know exactly what they do here -=20
whether it's the processing of the furs themselves, the manufacture of hats=20
and coats, or both of the above.  There's a closed gate into some kind of=20
yard behind the building, so for all I know, they could actually have animal=
s=20
in cages back there (although I would expect more noise and smell if this=20
were the case).  The gate is decorated with the outline of a sable, or some=20
other member of the weasel family.

I came here intending to buy a fur hat, and I've done a bit of browsing/=20
research in the shops, including the one at the "Mekha Sibiri" building,=20
which my hostess has recommended as the best place to go.  I expect I'll=20
actually get something by the end of the week.  Between the different specie=
s=20
used, and the various treatments of the fur, there is quite a variety of=20
textures and colors available, in quite a variety of price ranges.  Sheepski=
n=20
is used for hats, but more commonly for coats.  Usually it is the familiar=20
shearling, with the fleece on the inside and suede leather on the outside,=20
but I have also seen coats with the fleece on the outside, like a standard=20
"fur" coat.  Natural colors (black, browns, grays) are probably most common,=
=20
but blue, green, and other obviously dyed shades are seen as well.  Other=20
furs can be short, medium, or long.  Some species have a double coat - soft,=
=20
almost downy, fur underneath, with longer, coarser, rather shiny "guard=20
hairs" covering it, which presumably help shed water.  If you have trouble=20
picturing this, think of mink (which has relatively short guard hairs), or=20
raccoon (longer guard hairs).  Sometimes these furs are clipped, or sheared=20
-- the guard hairs (or at least their ends) removed, leaving the plush downy=
=20
undercoat.  This will look like something between velvet and the plush of=20
stuffed animals.  Furs like fox are just long and fluffy, without separate=20
guard hairs.  (Some sheepskin also tends toward the fluffy, rather than the=20
wooly.)

The two most common furs for hats seem to be muskrat and mink.  Both have=20
double coats, with relatively short guard hairs, but mink has more luster. =20
Muskrat tends to be in various shades of brown, and also black (a friend of=20
mine at home has a black muskrat hat that someone brought her from Russia;=20
it's quite nice).  I suspect the black is not a natural color.  Even some of=
=20
the browns may well be dyed for greater uniformity.  (I have no idea how man=
y=20
muskrats it takes to make a hat.)  Minks, of course, have been bred for a=20
variety of shades of brown and gray (a pale, silvery gray is quite popular),=
=20
even black, and are also dyed in yet more variations of these shades.

Mink also seems to be the most common fur for coats (after sheepskin). =20
Second is probably nutria, with longer guard hairs and less luster, giving i=
t=20
a somewhat shaggy look.  Even shaggier is kolonok (Siberian weasel, also=20
called kolinsky), whose texture reminds me a bit of raccoon coats in the=20
States.  It tends to be dark brown, while nutria comes in a variety of=20
shades.  (I'm not sure I'm always correctly differentiating these two.)  Bot=
h=20
are less common for hats.  Fox fur, long and fluffy, is fairly common for=20
hats. While it is sometimes used for coats, it is more common as trim on=20
cloth, leather, sheepskin, or shorter-fur coats.  (I've also seen a coat of=20
clipped Blackglama mink -- looking like the world's most amazing black velve=
t=20
-- with collar and cuffs of pale, spotted lynx.  Very handsome.)  According=20
to the store labels, fox is either red fox (lisa) or the even longer,=20
fluffier Arctic fox (pesets) - the latter seems to be more common.  Colors=20
are mostly shades of gray, ranging from dark to pale.

Siberia, of course, is the home of the sable (yet another member of the=20
weasel family), the absolutely premier fur.  I haven't seen any sable hats=20
for sale, but I have seen full sable and sable-trimmed coats in the stores,=20
and a few sable hats (I think) being worn on the street.  The stuff is=20
luscious and deserves its reputation - it's long and fabulously soft,=20
resembling fox more than mink.  While the pictures I've seen of live sables,=
=20
as well as stuffed specimens, are quite dark, the fur I've seen is mostly a=20
medium-light, slightly reddish brown.  It's also very expensive - a full=20
sable coat at "Mekha Sibiri" was priced at over $9000.  By comparison,=20
full-length mink coats can be bought for about $2500.

One fur that's fairly common here, and almost nowhere else, is nerpa - the=20
Lake Baikal seal.  It's short and shiny, generally some sort of gray-brown,=20
with irregular darker spots.  I considered the possibility of buying a nerpa=
=20
hat, but figured I'd wait to see what the local environmentalists had to say=
=20
about the population status and sustainability of current hunting levels. =20
But when I talked to Olga, my hostess, about fur hats, she mentioned the=20
availability of nerpa and said, "but we don't wear Baikal seal in this=20
house," because they're so cute and friendly, -- so I will respect her=20
preferences.  I really hope I get a chance to see the actual creatures.

I've mentioned a variety of natural and natural-looking colors - all of the=20
various browns and grays (plus black and white) that mammals actually come=20
in.  Fur here is also, less commonly, dyed in decidedly unnatural colors. =20
I've seen fox-fur hats in blue, green, orange, and purple, as well as variou=
s=20
furs in that dark magenta- red shade that has been intermittently popular fo=
r=20
hair dyeing.  This latter seems especially popular for fox collars.  Kolinsk=
y=20
coats sometimes have streaks of dark blue or green on the dark- brown=20
background.   Nerpa is dyed a variety of colors, with the spots remaining=20
visible.  Not surprisingly, these sorts of colors are much more popular with=
=20
women than with men.  (Women also wear fur coats more than men do, although=20
both sexes wear sheepskin.)=20

Sex differences are also apparent in hat styles.  The classic Russian model,=
=20
with the ear-flaps that tie together over the top of the head (the one Sovie=
t=20
soldiers and police wore with a big red star on the front) is extremely=20
popular with men.  Of all the men wearing fur hats, I'd say more than 3/4=20
wear this style.   Some wear them quite high on the head, not even covering=20
the tops of the ears; others wear them rather lower down.  While salespeople=
=20
typically refer to this as a man's hat, women wear them, too, just not as=20
often.  Probably the majority of fur-hatted women wear some other style, of=20
which there are quite a number.  What might be called the Mongol style -=20
leather rounded crown (either sewn- together wedges, or a single molded=20
piece) with wide fur rim - is popular. Sometimes the crown is fur, not=20
leather; either the same fur as the rim, or a different one.  There are fur=20
berets, fur helmets, fur pillboxes, fur hoods, fur turbans, etc.  Even=20
fedora- like styles, more commonly associated with felt or straw hats, are=20
done in fur.  One popular among older women has a high rounded crown,=20
sometimes creased, with a narrow brim on the back, right, and front, becomin=
g=20
a wide, turned-up brim on the left side.  There are also fur caps with flat=20
tops and short, wide bills (rather like Greek fisherman's caps), which are=20
the other style commonly worn by men.  These have an extra flap on the sides=
=20
and back that can be folded down over the ears and neck; they seem to be one=
=20
of the most common styles for nerpa.=20

The fur boots are a completely different fur from hats and coats.  My best=20
guess is that it's reindeer, or perhaps some other sort of deer.  This is=20
based both on the boots' appearance and on the fact that there are=20
reindeer-herding Siberian native peoples fairly near here - if not in Irkuts=
k=20
oblast, at least in some of the neighboring regions.

It has been fascinating observing the variety of fur hats and coats, and=20
learning to identify the different furs (not to mention learning all the=20
Russian names).  Since we haven't had much snowfall since I've been here,=20
I've so far been spared an experience mentioned by a former classmate in=20
Moscow - buildings and public transit smelling like wet dog from all the fur=
=20
coats! I'm sure I'll run into this before my trip is over.

(Note regarding ethical position:  As is obvious from the above, I am not=20
opposed to wearing fur per se.  My blunt expression for this is, "I eat dead=
=20
animals; I wear dead animals; I don't have a problem with that."  I wouldn't=
=20
buy anything made from an endangered species.  I tend to prefer=20
captive-raised to wild- trapped animals.  I think animals should be killed=20
humanely and treated humanely before killing.  Perhaps someday that last=20
statement will cause me to re-think my position on meat, leather and fur in=20
general, at least under commercial farming conditions, but I currently see n=
o=20
reason to differentiate among the three.  Living in the US, I would probably=
=20
never buy a fur coat (except maybe sheepskin), mostly for financial and=20
social-image reasons.  If I were going to be living in Russia for a period o=
f=20
years, I might well do so.)

Copyright 2003 by Sondra Venable.

--part1_146.b38a894.2b87674d_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hopefully this will work.  



Although the following discussion is based on current, not historical usage=20=
of fur, I thought people might find it interesting.=A0 A friend who is curre=
ntly working on her dissertation in Siberia sent it to me.=A0 



FUR:

This is much more common in Russia (both Moscow and Irkutsk) than in New Yor=
k, and probably more common here even than in more northern parts of the US=20=
(Maine, Minnesota, Vermont, etc.).  People walk around on the streets w=
earing fur coats, fur hats, fur mittens, and even fur boots (not necessarily=
 all on the same person).  The anti-fur movement would have a tough tim=
e here.  They have had significant success in the States in large part=20=
because they are able to portray fur as a luxury or vanity item, a means of=20=
conspicuous consumption.  Certainly they play up the cruelty aspect, al=
ong with the animal-cuteness factor; still, there are far more Americans who=
 would "never wear fur" than who would never eat meat or wear leather, even=20=
though the cruelty factor would seem to apply equally to the latter cases.&n=
bsp; But fur has been successfully portrayed as something that few people ca=
n afford and nobody needs.  This is not the image it has in Russia.&nbs=
p; I'm not sure about the affordability part - it's certainly not cheap.&nbs=
p; My guess is that it is seen as an expensive necessity, and somewhat of a=20=
long-term investment.  There's certainly a lot of it around.  Offh=
and, I'd say that well over half the people on the street wear fur hats, and=
 maybe one-quarter wear fur coats.   That latter number increases=20=
significantly if you include sheepskin/ shearling, which is the most common=20=
"fur" for coats here. My rough survey on the Moscow subway suggests that a 6=
-person bench would have 3 people in sheepskin coats, 2 in fur, and 4 or 5 w=
ith fur hats.  Also popular is sheepskin trimmed with some other fur at=
 the cuffs and collar, or the rim of the hood.  (Hoods on fur coats are=
 very common.)  Moreover, here in Siberia, fur is not only what people=20=
wear in the winter; it's also an important local industry.  While fur c=
oats in Moscow shops may be imported from Italy (which has struck me as rath=
er a coals-to-Newcastle thing), fur shops here have tags indicating not only=
 the type of fur, but that it comes from Irkutsk oblast.  Just down the=
 street from where I'm living is a good-sized building labeled "Mekha Sibiri=
" (Furs of Siberia).  I don't know exactly what they do here - whether=20=
it's the processing of the furs themselves, the manufacture of hats and coat=
s, or both of the above.  There's a closed gate into some kind of yard=20=
behind the building, so for all I know, they could actually have animals in=20=
cages back there (although I would expect more noise and smell if this were=20=
the case).  The gate is decorated with the outline of a sable, or some=20=
other member of the weasel family.



I came here intending to buy a fur hat, and I've done a bit of browsing/ res=
earch in the shops, including the one at the "Mekha Sibiri" building, which=20=
my hostess has recommended as the best place to go.  I expect I'll actu=
ally get something by the end of the week.  Between the different speci=
es used, and the various treatments of the fur, there is quite a variety of=20=
textures and colors available, in quite a variety of price ranges.  She=
epskin is used for hats, but more commonly for coats.  Usually it is th=
e familiar shearling, with the fleece on the inside and suede leather on the=
 outside, but I have also seen coats with the fleece on the outside, like a=20=
standard "fur" coat.  Natural colors (black, browns, grays) are probabl=
y most common, but blue, green, and other obviously dyed shades are seen as=20=
well.  Other furs can be short, medium, or long.  Some species hav=
e a double coat - soft, almost downy, fur underneath, with longer, coarser,=20=
rather shiny "guard hairs" covering it, which presumably help shed water.&nb=
sp; If you have trouble picturing this, think of mink (which has relatively=20=
short guard hairs), or raccoon (longer guard hairs).  Sometimes these f=
urs are clipped, or sheared -- the guard hairs (or at least their ends) remo=
ved, leaving the plush downy undercoat.  This will look like something=20=
between velvet and the plush of stuffed animals.  Furs like fox are jus=
t long and fluffy, without separate guard hairs.  (Some sheepskin also=20=
tends toward the fluffy, rather than the wooly.)



The two most common furs for hats seem to be muskrat and mink.  Both ha=
ve double coats, with relatively short guard hairs, but mink has more luster=
.  Muskrat tends to be in various shades of brown, and also black (a fr=
iend of mine at home has a black muskrat hat that someone brought her from R=
ussia; it's quite nice).  I suspect the black is not a natural color.&n=
bsp; Even some of the browns may well be dyed for greater uniformity. =20=
(I have no idea how many muskrats it takes to make a hat.)  Minks, of c=
ourse, have been bred for a variety of shades of brown and gray (a pale, sil=
very gray is quite popular), even black, and are also dyed in yet more varia=
tions of these shades.



Mink also seems to be the most common fur for coats (after sheepskin). =
 Second is probably nutria, with longer guard hairs and less luster, giving=20=
it a somewhat shaggy look.  Even shaggier is kolonok (Siberian weasel,=20=
also called kolinsky), whose texture reminds me a bit of raccoon coats in th=
e States.  It tends to be dark brown, while nutria comes in a variety o=
f shades.  (I'm not sure I'm always correctly differentiating these two=
.)  Both are less common for hats.  Fox fur, long and fluffy, is f=
airly common for hats. While it is sometimes used for coats, it is more comm=
on as trim on cloth, leather, sheepskin, or shorter-fur coats.  (I've a=
lso seen a coat of clipped Blackglama mink -- looking like the world's most=20=
amazing black velvet -- with collar and cuffs of pale, spotted lynx.  V=
ery handsome.)  According to the store labels, fox is either red fox (l=
isa) or the even longer, fluffier Arctic fox (pesets) - the latter seems to=20=
be more common.  Colors are mostly shades of gray, ranging from dark to=
 pale.



Siberia, of course, is the home of the sable (yet another member of the weas=
el family), the absolutely premier fur.  I haven't seen any sable hats=20=
for sale, but I have seen full sable and sable-trimmed coats in the stores,=20=
and a few sable hats (I think) being worn on the street.  The stuff is=20=
luscious and deserves its reputation - it's long and fabulously soft, resemb=
ling fox more than mink.  While the pictures I've seen of live sables,=20=
as well as stuffed specimens, are quite dark, the fur I've seen is mostly a=20=
medium-light, slightly reddish brown.  It's also very expensive - a ful=
l sable coat at "Mekha Sibiri" was priced at over $9000.  By comparison=
, full-length mink coats can be bought for about $2500.



One fur that's fairly common here, and almost nowhere else, is nerpa - the L=
ake Baikal seal.  It's short and shiny, generally some sort of gray-bro=
wn, with irregular darker spots.  I considered the possibility of buyin=
g a nerpa hat, but figured I'd wait to see what the local environmentalists=20=
had to say about the population status and sustainability of current hunting=
 levels.  But when I talked to Olga, my hostess, about fur hats, she me=
ntioned the availability of nerpa and said, "but we don't wear Baikal seal i=
n this house," because they're so cute and friendly, -- so I will respect he=
r preferences.  I really hope I get a chance to see the actual creature=
s.



I've mentioned a variety of natural and natural-looking colors - all of the=20=
various browns and grays (plus black and white) that mammals actually come i=
n.  Fur here is also, less commonly, dyed in decidedly unnatural colors=
.  I've seen fox-fur hats in blue, green, orange, and purple, as well a=
s various furs in that dark magenta- red shade that has been intermittently=20=
popular for hair dyeing.  This latter seems especially popular for fox=20=
collars.  Kolinsky coats sometimes have streaks of dark blue or green o=
n the dark- brown background.   Nerpa is dyed a variety of colors,=
 with the spots remaining visible.  Not surprisingly, these sorts of co=
lors are much more popular with women than with men.  (Women also wear=20=
fur coats more than men do, although both sexes wear sheepskin.) 



Sex differences are also apparent in hat styles.  The classic Russian m=
odel, with the ear-flaps that tie together over the top of the head (the one=
 Soviet soldiers and police wore with a big red star on the front) is extrem=
ely popular with men.  Of all the men wearing fur hats, I'd say more th=
an 3/4 wear this style.   Some wear them quite high on the head, n=
ot even covering the tops of the ears; others wear them rather lower down.&n=
bsp; While salespeople typically refer to this as a man's hat, women wear th=
em, too, just not as often.  Probably the majority of fur-hatted women=20=
wear some other style, of which there are quite a number.  What might b=
e called the Mongol style - leather rounded crown (either sewn- together wed=
ges, or a single molded piece) with wide fur rim - is popular. Sometimes the=
 crown is fur, not leather; either the same fur as the rim, or a different o=
ne.  There are fur berets, fur helmets, fur pillboxes, fur hoods, fur t=
urbans, etc.  Even fedora- like styles, more commonly associated with f=
elt or straw hats, are done in fur.  One popular among older women has=20=
a high rounded crown, sometimes creased, with a narrow brim on the back, rig=
ht, and front, becoming a wide, turned-up brim on the left side.  There=
 are also fur caps with flat tops and short, wide bills (rather like Greek f=
isherman's caps), which are the other style commonly worn by men.  Thes=
e have an extra flap on the sides and back that can be folded down over the=20=
ears and neck; they seem to be one of the most common styles for nerpa. 



The fur boots are a completely different fur from hats and coats.  My b=
est guess is that it's reindeer, or perhaps some other sort of deer.  T=
his is based both on the boots' appearance and on the fact that there are re=
indeer-herding Siberian native peoples fairly near here - if not in Irkutsk=20=
oblast, at least in some of the neighboring regions.



It has been fascinating observing the variety of fur hats and coats, and lea=
rning to identify the different furs (not to mention learning all the Russia=
n names).  Since we haven't had much snowfall since I've been here, I'v=
e so far been spared an experience mentioned by a former classmate in Moscow=
 - buildings and public transit smelling like wet dog from all the fur coats=
! I'm sure I'll run into this before my trip is over.



(Note regarding ethical position:  As is obvious from the above, I am n=
ot opposed to wearing fur per se.  My blunt expression for this is, "I=20=
eat dead animals; I wear dead animals; I don't have a problem with that."&nb=
sp; I wouldn't buy anything made from an endangered species.  I tend to=
 prefer captive-raised to wild- trapped animals.  I think animals shoul=
d be killed humanely and treated humanely before killing.  Perhaps some=
day that last statement will cause me to re-think my position on meat, leath=
er and fur in general, at least under commercial farming conditions, but I c=
urrently see no reason to differentiate among the three.  Living in the=
 US, I would probably never buy a fur coat (except maybe sheepskin), mostly=20=
for financial and social-image reasons.  If I were going to be living i=
n Russia for a period of years, I might well do so.)



Copyright 2003 by Sondra Venable.


--part1_146.b38a894.2b87674d_boundary--
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	from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century 
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:44:47 -0500
Status: RO

Meagn wrote:

>I went through adolescence during one of the most singularly awkward and 
>ugly periods of clothing, bar none, 1969/1973, which would have turned 
>anyone to looking elsewhere.  Especially when one is a very self-conscious 
>young teen.

Hmm. That would have been late grade school and junior high for me... As I 
recall, fashions changed almost overnight -- every night. Things I recall, 
and my take on them...

Loved hot pants
Loved maxi skirts
Hated mini skirts
Hated sizzlers more, but at least the ones I was given were made for 
someone much taller than me and came with matching underpants so they 
weren't *too* bad
Never quite figured out what to make of midi skirts (*today*, I love them...)
Originally liked the crocheted skirt and vest sets, then grew to dislike them
Liked shocking pink with neon orange
Liked electric blue with chartreuse
Hated muted colors (then again, I was a kid)
Liked slightly-low-rise hot pants and slacks
Hated *really* low-rise hiphuggers
Hated "elephant pants" (aka "palazzos")
Hated bell bottoms, mostly because the "knees" hit at about my ankles
Don't recall what I thought about tube tops, except that they weren't for 
someone as well-endowed as I was
Hated too-tight Huk-a-Poos
Hated bonded knits
Didn't mind tunic-and-pants suits *too* much
Thought pre-beaded and pre-embroidered jeans sets were for 
twentysomethings, not teenagers

>So - my own underlying reason for my interest in clothing (I
>think, anyhow) is that I simply did not want to
>be.like.my.mother.at.all.  Her stuff was all Chanel
>knockoffs, ugly (to me) stuff from Saks and Neimans.

My mom was always in the same dresses from the same patterns that she'd 
have for years, and they were always too snug and at lengths that did not 
suit her at all...

>  As far as I'm concerned, (most) dignified clothing for women
>disappeared around 1967 (at least inasmuch as what was
>mass-marketed).

I think that depends on the age of the consumer to which the clothing was 
marketed, at least to some degree...

>So, my mother was horrified when I wanted
>either an 1850s crinoline and bodice or jeans and sweaters
>rather than a mini and boots.

I used to hate "crinolines" (the attached tulle underskirts to girls' 
dresses); they used to scratch no matter *what* I wore underneath. I 
finally found that the key to them was binding the outer edge and putting 
another lining layer beneath the "crinoline", but only one of my dresses 
was put together well enough for that, and it was a very fancy party dress...

>Thus began the Battle Of The Closet.  Ergo, I was then everafter
>  "dowdy" because I wouldn't wear really short skirts.

I used to complain forever to my mother who insisted on hemming my skirts 
no longer than 2-3" above the knee, when I considered the highest "decent" 
length of skirt to be at the middle of the kneecap... I think that more or 
less ended when I learned how to hem my own garments and when I started 
making my own clothes (in other words, when I was about 9 or 10 -- a little 
ahead of the same time hot pants and maxi skirts came into style).

>Did anyone else on this list have furious battles with their
>mothers over clothes?

Quite frequently. Or I'd have furious battles with my dad or my 
grandparents. Mostly over hot pants, which I loved, and which they thought 
were OK when I was in grade school but not when I was in junior high. And 
makeup. Mom and I (and Mom and my sister) had the worst 
knock-down-drag-outs over being the only kids in school who didn't have 
permission to wear makeup...

>I always suspected that it wasn't really the *clothes* we were arguing
>about, but rather that I was refusing to be dressed and controlled like 
>her paper
>doll.

In my case, it *was* the clothes. Grandpa would bring home stuff that I 
thought was completely inappropriate for my age (9-14, when he had to 
retire for health reasons) and he and my mom and grandma would insist the 
styles were perfectly fine for me (they were usually geared towards 
twentysomethings). He'd bring home these awful bonded-knit acrylic pants 
that would cause my thighs to chafe every time I tried to wear them, and 
all the adults insisted this could *not* happen with acrylics! (OTOH, the 
one pair of *wool* pants grandpa brought home, that everyone insisted would 
itch me, neither itched nor chafed...)

If I wanted something specific, I pretty much had to make it myself on a 
very limited budget (my allowance was maybe 1/4 of that of my peers; I was 
required to put all monetary gifts except for a token $5.00 total per 
holiday into what was supposed to be a college fund; I did not have a job 
or regular babysitting, and would have been required to put all *that* 
money into what was supposed to be a college fund as well). OTOH, if I made 
it myself, it rarely got criticism (and if it did, it was usually 
constructive comments from Grandpa's brother the dress designer)...



Brenda
webwarren@earthlink.net


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From: "Kate M Bunting" 
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Subject: 70s fashions, was re: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant
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List-Id: Re-creating period costume,
	from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century 
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:30:50 +0000
Status: RO

I was at university in the early 70s, but I remember the height of the mini-skirt craze being a few years earlier, ariund 1967-8

Brenda wrote:
>Hmm. That would have been late grade school and junior high for me... As >I recall, fashions changed almost overnight -- every night. Things I recall, 
>and my take on them...

>Loved hot pants
>Loved maxi skirts
>Hated mini skirts

My thighs are much too short to give the right "leggy" look in a mini-skirt.

>Hated sizzlers more, but at least the ones I was given were made for 
>someone much taller than me and came with matching underpants so they 
>weren't *too* bad

Sizzlers?

>Hated *really* low-rise hiphuggers

So did I; as I'm long-waisted, tops wouldn't stay tucked in!

>Hated bell bottoms, mostly because the "knees" hit at about my ankles

I've not worn them since they came back into fashion, but in 1971-2 they were so universal (at least among young people) that you would have felt uncomfortably conspicuous in straight-legged trousers.

>Hated too-tight Huk-a-Poos

What on earth were they? Don't think we had them in Britain!

Other fashions I remember from this time were tank tops (which in Britain were knitted sleeveless pullovers worn over a shirt) and the first Laura Ashley floral prints. We used to wear loose flowered tops that looked like maternity clothes.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <20030215165601.22156.56533.Mailman@net.indra.com> 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extremely OT, but...extra ticket to the Vienna Opera ball Feb 27th
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Extremely OT, but...extra ticket to the Vienna Opera bHello.
I have passed on this email to a friend of mine who is studying in =
London these days. He is very keen to come to Vienna Balls and the like.
If i should get a message from him, i shall pass it on to you!

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: michiko=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 7:41 AM
  Subject: [h-cost] Extremely OT, but...extra ticket to the Vienna Opera =
ball Feb 27th


  Hi everyone!


  Sorry this is off-topic a bit, but thought maybe someone in this group =
might be interested in going since you may have the dresses already... =
:)


  Those of you who know people in Vienna (or elsewhere in Europe) who =
might be interested in attending the Vienna Opera Ball at the opera =
house on short notice - in a week and a half - I just wanted to let you =
know my date just had to cancel unexpectedly and I am stuck holding a =
$350 Ball ticket if anyone would be interested in attending.


  I'd prefer a male (to dance with - does he know the Viennese waltz by =
any chance? No matter, there are additional dance floors and other =
casual dances like salsa, disco, etc, - ha!) but wouldn't be opposed to =
a lady coming along who'd like to experience it too.


  If coming from the States, it's not too late to book a cheap flight - =
as recently as last night a mid-week to mid-week flight was coming up at =
$372, $460 if a weekend-to-weekend departure/return.


  Men are wearing white-tie and tails and patent leather shoes and white =
gloves, women in evening dress, period dress or modern floor-length =
dress seem to be equally acceptable (I'm going on half-information here =
:)


  Passport is needed (of course :)


  I agree it is the ultimate in last-minute-long-shot offers, but I just =
thought I'd ask you if you might know of anyone. I'm going regardless, =
but these tickets were hard to get and it's sold out now so it'd be =
great if someone else wanted to join us (there are 4 of us, we have a =
table and everything.)


  The event is Feb 27th, Thursday, 9pm dancing until the wee hours. =
Ticket includes entry and reserved table - dinner and drinks extra =
(we're eating beforehand). My father speaks German so he will help =
us/you get around if need be -- we arrive into Vienna on Wed Feb 26th =
and depart on Saturday Mar 1.


  Thank you for any suggestions or recommendations for people who might =
be interested - thanks!


  Since time is running out, I can be reached at 1.212.979.0490 or my =
father (in Switzerland - he is the one who has the tickets under his =
name) at 011 41 21 961 1352. I'm on email several times a day as well. =
(There is no markup on the ticket other than what we are paying, just =
fyi :)


  Please email to me directly rather than the list, at =
michiko@michiko.com - thank you!




  Thanks for your help!


  Best regards,
  Michiko








  more info below, if interested :)


  FWD






  About the Ball:


  http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1605/balloper.htm
  (scroll down for photos of dignitaries, debutantes, Joan Collins (ha!) =
and rumor is that Pamela Anderson will be attending this year as well - =
is that a plus or minus? Anyway, I think she's cool so I'll of course =
encourage you to ask her to dance!)


  http://www.wiener-staatsoper.at/Content.Node2/home/opernball/192.php
  (this one is in German, so you you want to have it translated go to:
  http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr
  and type in the wiener-staatsoper website to translate it from German =
to English...well, kinda :)






  Getting There:


  http://www.expedia.com has the best fares it seems, from JFK to Vienna =
airport (arriving before Feb 27th to allow you to get over the 6 hour =
jetlag (6 hours ahead) -- my father and I will get into Vienna Feb 26th =
(the day before) if you want to synch up with that so my Dad can help =
you out since he speaks German -- nice guy, funny, irreverent by the =
way. Stepmom is nice too - they're goofballs and it should be fun - I'll =
see if I can find  a photo of them to attach) Also, you can try =
www.Orbitz.com and www.Travelocity.com but I got the best rate for =
JFK-Geneva yesterday on Expedia. (Expedia also sometimes lets you place =
free reservations for 24 hours, which helps :)


  Money-saving tips for airfare: Book more than 7 days in advance and =
the prices are really cheap. Less than 7 days in about $20 more so far, =
and the day or two before is about $1100. Flying T-Th are the cheapest =
days.






  Where to Stay:
  The youth hostel is near the center of the city and the opera house =
and we could of course help get you from there to the Ball if that's any =
consolation.


  From my friend in Vienna, on hostels back when I was looking:
    So I was looking for hostels for you. I could find and talk to the =
West City Hostel which is in a very nice area and close to =
transportation. A single room would cost 35,-US$ per night incl. =
breakfast. Then there is another hostel, also close to the center, close =
to bus they only have 4 and 6 bed rooms, which cost 14,- US$ per night =
incl. breakfast. I will further look around if there are any other =
hostels.



  So theoretically you could fly into Vienna say Tues 25th or Wed 26th =
for $397 r/t or so (just got this quote on Orbitz since the Expedia site =
was momentarily swamped -- T-W-Th flights are cheapest), book your =
hostel online in advance and either get the private room or the group =
dorm room which isn't too bad (let's say $14 per night) and return on =
that following Tuesday (if you can take time off work.)  That'd be 8-9 =
nights in the hostel at about $14 =3D approx $112-$126.


  If you were concerned about your luggage or anything while at the =
hostel (though a lot of times they have safes and all that, and Austria =
is known for clean well-run hostels I'm told :), I would be happy to =
keep it safe in my hotel room, if that helps, and we could get ready =
there etc. if that's a little more glamorous than a hostel for ya :)


  Also, you could stay the first night in a hostel till you get your =
bearings and can see which hotel you'd like to pick for the remaining =
nights...I'm an old-fashioned gal otherwise I'd say just stay in my =
room, but um...er, no offense! :)






  What to Wear :)
  Ladies have to wear floor length ballgowns, guys wear white tie with =
tails, white gloves, and, possibly importantly for admission to the =
event (not sure yet how strict they are going to be on this) =
"non-rubber-soled shoes". I think this means no sneakers because the =
turns of the Viennese waltz are not possible with sticky shoes, but also =
some purists and hardcore dance floor places won't let in street shoes =
because of scuffing the fine woods. I don't know how uptight they'll be =
but my guess is you can get the right sort of shoe from the same place =
where you rent your white tie and tails? Important: don't ask for a =
"tux" as that is strictly an American look (black tie, dinner jacket) =
and they want the tails, white tie, gloves European thing goin' on :) =
Patent leather shoes may be nice but not required. A coat you can wear =
with it (though I may be wearing my crappy usual coat and just tucking =
it into the coat check right away before anyone can see it - heh :)


  (Any questions, let me know - thanks! :)


  -- Michiko
  --=20




  ----------------------------------------
  Michiko Stehrenberger
  Illustration & Character Design
  BimBionic Design Lab | New York=20
  http://www.michiko.com
  ----------------------------------------

------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2D9BA.0B4D1260
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Extremely OT, but...extra ticket to the Vienna Opera =
b






Hello.


I have passed on this email to a friend =
of mine who=20
is studying in London these days. He is very keen to come to Vienna =
Balls and=20
the like.


If i should get a message from him, i =
shall pass it=20
on to you!


 


Bjarne


 


 


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk
=


 


http://home0.inet.tele.dk/dr=
ewscph/



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  michiko=20
  
  
  
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 =
7:41=20
  AM

  
Subject: [h-cost] Extremely OT, =

  but...extra ticket to the Vienna Opera ball Feb 27th

  


  
Hi everyone!

  


  
Sorry this is off-topic a bit, but thought maybe someone in this =
group=20
  might be interested in going since you may have the dresses already... =

:)

  


  
Those of you who know people in Vienna (or elsewhere in Europe) =
who might=20
  be interested in attending the Vienna Opera Ball at the opera house on =
short=20
  notice - in a week and a half - I just wanted to let you know my date =
just had=20
  to cancel unexpectedly and I am stuck holding a $350 Ball ticket if =
anyone=20
  would be interested in attending.

  


  
I'd prefer a male (to dance with - does he know the Viennese =
waltz by any=20
  chance? No matter, there are additional dance floors and other casual =
dances=20
  like salsa, disco, etc, - ha!) but wouldn't be opposed to a lady =
coming along=20
  who'd like to experience it too.

  


  
If coming from the States, it's not too late to book a cheap =
flight - as=20
  recently as last night a mid-week to mid-week flight was coming up at =
$372,=20
  $460 if a weekend-to-weekend departure/return.

  


  
Men are wearing white-tie and tails and patent leather shoes and =
white=20
  gloves, women in evening dress, period dress or modern floor-length =
dress seem=20
  to be equally acceptable (I'm going on half-information here :)

  


  
Passport is needed (of course :)

  


  
I agree it is the ultimate in last-minute-long-shot offers, but I =
just=20
  thought I'd ask you if you might know of anyone. I'm going regardless, =
but=20
  these tickets were hard to get and it's sold out now so it'd be great =
if=20
  someone else wanted to join us (there are 4 of us, we have a table and =

  everything.)

  


  
The event is Feb 27th, Thursday, 9pm dancing until the wee hours. =
Ticket=20
  includes entry and reserved table - dinner and drinks extra (we're =
eating=20
  beforehand). My father speaks German so he will help us/you get around =
if need=20
  be -- we arrive into Vienna on Wed Feb 26th and depart on Saturday Mar =

1.

  


  
Thank you for any suggestions or recommendations for people who =
might be=20
  interested - thanks!

  


  
Since time is running out, I can be reached at =
1.212.979.0490 or=20
  my father (in Switzerland - he is the one who has the tickets under =
his name)=20
  at 011 41 21 961 1352. I'm on email several times a day as =
well. (There=20
  is no markup on the ticket other than what we are paying, just fyi =
:)

  


  
Please email to me directly rather than the list, at=20
  michiko@michiko.com - thank you!

  


  


  
Thanks for your help!

  


  
Best regards,

  
Michiko

  


  


  


  


  
more info below, if interested :)

  


  
FWD

  


  


  


  
About the Ball:

  


  
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1605/balloper.htm

  
(scroll down for photos of dignitaries, debutantes, Joan Collins =
(ha!)=20
  and rumor is that Pamela Anderson will be attending this year as well =
- is=20
  that a plus or minus? Anyway, I think she's cool so I'll of course =
encourage=20
  you to ask her to dance!)

  


  =

http://www.wiener-staatsoper.at/Content.Node2/home/opernball/192.php=


  
(this one is in German, so you you want to have it translated go=20
to:

  
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

  
and type in the wiener-staatsoper website to translate it from =
German to=20
  English...well, kinda :)

  


  


  


  
Getting There:

  


  
http://www.expedia.com has the best fares it seems, from =
JFK to=20
  Vienna airport (arriving before Feb 27th to allow you to get over the =
6 hour=20
  jetlag (6 hours ahead) -- my father and I will get into Vienna Feb =
26th (the=20
  day before) if you want to synch up with that so my Dad can help you =
out since=20
  he speaks German -- nice guy, funny, irreverent by the way. Stepmom is =
nice=20
  too - they're goofballs and it should be fun - I'll see if I can =
find  a=20
  photo of them to attach) Also, you can try www.Orbitz.com =
and=20
  www.Travelocity.com but I got the best rate for JFK-Geneva =
yesterday on=20
  Expedia. (Expedia also sometimes lets you place free reservations for =
24=20
  hours, which helps :)

  


  
Money-saving tips for airfare: Book more than 7 days in advance =
and the=20
  prices are really cheap. Less than 7 days in about $20 more so far, =
and the=20
  day or two before is about $1100. Flying T-Th are the cheapest =
days.

  


  


  


  
Where to Stay:

  
The youth hostel is near the center of the city and the opera =
house and=20
  we could of course help get you from there to the Ball if that's any=20
  consolation.

  


  
From my friend in Vienna, on hostels back when I was =
looking:

  
So I was looking for hostels =
for you. I=20
    could find and talk to the West City Hostel which is in a very nice =
area and=20
    close to transportation. A single room would cost 35,-US$ per night =
incl.=20
    breakfast. Then there is another hostel, also close to the center, =
close to=20
    bus they only have 4 and 6 bed rooms, which cost 14,- US$ per night =
incl.=20
    breakfast. I will further look around if there are any other=20
  hostels.

  



  
So theoretically you could fly into Vienna say Tues 25th or Wed =
26th for=20
  $397 r/t or so (just got this quote on Orbitz since the Expedia site =
was=20
  momentarily swamped -- T-W-Th flights are cheapest), book your hostel =
online=20
  in advance and either get the private room or the group dorm room =
which isn't=20
  too bad (let's say $14 per night) and return on that following Tuesday =
(if you=20
  can take time off work.)  That'd be 8-9 nights in the hostel at =
about $14=20
  =3D approx $112-$126.

  


  
If you were concerned about your luggage or anything while at the =
hostel=20
  (though a lot of times they have safes and all that, and Austria is =
known for=20
  clean well-run hostels I'm told :), I would be happy to keep it safe =
in my=20
  hotel room, if that helps, and we could get ready there etc. if that's =
a=20
  little more glamorous than a hostel for ya :)

  


  
Also, you could stay the first night in a hostel till you get =
your=20
  bearings and can see which hotel you'd like to pick for the remaining=20
  nights...I'm an old-fashioned gal otherwise I'd say just stay in my =
room, but=20
  um...er, no offense! :)

  


  


  


  
What to Wear :)

  
Ladies have to wear floor length ballgowns, guys wear white tie =
with=20
  tails, white gloves, and, possibly importantly for admission to the =
event (not=20
  sure yet how strict they are going to be on this) "non-rubber-soled =
shoes". I=20
  think this means no sneakers because the turns of the Viennese waltz =
are not=20
  possible with sticky shoes, but also some purists and hardcore dance =
floor=20
  places won't let in street shoes because of scuffing the fine woods. I =
don't=20
  know how uptight they'll be but my guess is you can get the right sort =
of shoe=20
  from the same place where you rent your white tie and tails? =
Important: don't=20
  ask for a "tux" as that is strictly an American look (black tie, =
dinner=20
  jacket) and they want the tails, white tie, gloves European thing =
goin' on :)=20
  Patent leather shoes may be nice but not required. A coat you can wear =
with it=20
  (though I may be wearing my crappy usual coat and just tucking it into =
the=20
  coat check right away before anyone can see it - heh :)

  


  
(Any questions, let me know - thanks! :)

  


  
-- Michiko

  
--=20
  =





----------------------------------------
Michiko=20
  Stehrenberger
Illustration & Character Design
BimBionic =
Design Lab |=20
  New York=20
  =

http://www.michiko.com
----------------------------------------


------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2D9BA.0B4D1260--


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:35:13 EST
Status: RO

Could someone with legal experience explain to me the differences between the 
new Pay Pal agreement I am being asked to "sign" and the old one.  I remember 
a lengthy thread a few months ago regarding the old agreement.  Because of 
some legal issues there is a new agreement, very obtuse and lengthy which has 
to be agreed to in order to use Pay Pal again.  My account is personal, not 
business.
Cheryl Odom
College of Santa Fe
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: custom made tags Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?
Organization: Threadneedlest.com
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I've come to like tags in clothing after many years of snipping them out
simply to avoid unsightly buges and stitching lines.  I think of them now as
an artist's or craftsperson's signature of their work.  Hate them at the
neck of garments though.  Bergdorf Goodman, the swanky fifth avenue
department store in New York sews lables into, possibly every garment if I
recall correctly, that they sell.  Now there's a job opening!!!  So, not
only do you know the designer or manufacturer but you know the retailer too!

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:59 AM
Subject: custom made tags Re: [h-cost] Why did they add tags?


> --- Heather Rose Jones  wrote: >
> > them.  I wouldn't have gone out and ordered something like this
> > myself, although I _have_ been known to machine-embroider my
> > signature on a pants pocket a  time or two ... just because.)
>
> I did, I went and ordered my own labels when I was in my early/mid
twenties.
> Black ones and white ones, both embroidered in gold, the white ones for
shirts.
> They read 'Marquis de Kipar'
> *LOL*
> I still stick them into bits I make if I remember.
>
> I had to rip all the labels out of my mantua and fontange, Ninya had put
all
> her 'Ninya Mikhaila' labels into a historic costume! AAAHHRRGHHH! ;-)
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> "Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
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> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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And do it right - red red red.

I was at an event recently and overheard part of a conversation
".....have you ever seen so many brightly fake redheads in one place?"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant


> On Thursday 20 February 2003 06:55 pm, Penny Ladnier wrote:
> > Meagn,
> >
> > Our (the 4 sisters) battles with mom was over makeup and she couldn't
stand
> > people who dye their hair.  Mom did neither.  As adults 3 of the 4
sisters
> > have been a redhead at some point.  I have been one for about 10 years.
> > Unfortunately, we inherited Dad's pre-mature gray hair.  I am at 100%
gray
> > now at 45 y.o.... but it is covered with red dye... all three feet of my
> > hair!
>
> Good for you!  I'm glad to know I'm not the only person persistently
dyeing
> all of my long (but not 3 ft. by any means) hair red!
> --
> Cathy Raymond 
>
> "If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman
>
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Northern CA Fabric Sources (Long)
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>I'm from SoCal, and still have family and friends down
>there,

Me too, but they're all in San Diego, two-and-some hours, and ever so much 
traffic, south of the garment district.

>As far as a "nice job," I'm a teacher in an urban
>public high school. I love my job, but I don't see too
>many people lining up to go into the classroom. ;-)

I should be so lucky - I am unemployed, and have been so for several years 
now.  If not for my luck at finding fabric at thrift stores and places like 
the Berkeley Depot for Creative Re-Use, I couldn't afford to costume at 
all.  Wednesday I found some wool scraps at the BDfCRU, and it was the 
difference between being able to make the wool walking suit I wanted for my 
latest living history project and having to go with a cotton house dress 
instead.

>I literally can't afford not to buy fabric in LA. If I
>had to pay the prices charged by places like Britex, I
>couldn't afford to keep decent costumes on my back.

And I have had to cut way back on the costumed events I attend, as the only 
way I can afford to get in is if I get comped in for working.


Kayta

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: law and order
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>So I don't think anyone saying "my interest comes from...." is
>really the point.

I may or may not have an obsession with costumes, as I have always found 
them to be part of the escape from that portion of the world which didn't 
like me when I tried to dress like 'normal' people.  I don't remember my 
father caring one way or the other about what I wore, but my mother left 
him when I was young.  She mostly didn't care as long as I was dressed more 
or less correctly for the occasion (I had an aunt who was really 
opinionated about what I wore).  I dived into costumey everyday clothes 
when Hippies started wearing them (having only dabbled in interesting 
clothes before then), and made my first historical re-creation in 
1971.  Nowadays, when I'm not wearing t-shirt and jeans, I wear as 
interesting a set of clothes as I can afford to make.

>That said, I'd like to know what the script writers and editors were
>reading;)

smoking.


Kayta

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Subject: [h-cost] Learning to Crochet
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--part1_130.1b6978a6.2b87b8f4_boundary
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Greetings All!

Here I am with another request for help.  I have really wanted to learn to 
crochet for a long time.  But I am interested in being able to do the sort of 
things my grandmother and great grandmother was able to do.  Do any of you 
know if there was a different technique to crochet 50 years ago?  If not, can 
anyone recommend a good "How To" book to start learning from?

Thanks,
Kit

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Greetings All!



Here I am with another request for help.  I have really wanted to learn=
 to crochet for a long time.  But I am interested in being able to do t=
he sort of things my grandmother and great grandmother was able to do. =
 Do any of you know if there was a different technique to crochet 50 years a=
go?  If not, can anyone recommend a good "How To" book to start learnin=
g from?



Thanks,

Kit

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Learning to Crochet
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>Here I am with another request for help.  I have really wanted to learn to 
>crochet for a long time.  But I am interested in being able to do the sort 
>of things my grandmother and great grandmother was able to do.  Do any of 
>you know if there was a different technique to crochet 50 years ago?  If 
>not, can anyone recommend a good "How To" book to start learning from?

As far as I can tell, the two main differences are what patterns were 
typical of what decades, and what did people call the stitches.  For 
example, the pineapple design, so popular in the 1950s, doesn't seem to 
exist in the 1850s.  And nothing looks more nineteen-teens than a piece of 
filet with 'spiders' in it.  The Dover reprint of the Weldon's crochet 
stuff, called "Victorian Crochet" (ISBN 0-486-228890-8) has crochet 
patterns from the 1880s, along with a translation of their terms into what 
modern crochet books will call them.


Kayta

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:53:14 -0600
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Kit, as far as I know, there is no difference in how to crochet from today
and years ago. If you go to a bookstore or Joanns, or even a yarn store if
you are so lucky to have one nearby, there are at least a handful of "how to
start" books. Peruse a few and see which one makes most sense to you and has
the best illustrations. I find that illustrations are very key to me
understanding just *how* the
needle/hook/whatever-implement-I'm-supposed-to-use-for-this-technique is
supposed to move helps a LOT!

**********************
Rebecca Schmitt
aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
BRF FOF

A room without books is like a body without a soul
---Cicero

lotsofteapots@charter.net
**********************



----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 11:16 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Learning to Crochet


> Greetings All!
>
> Here I am with another request for help.  I have really wanted to learn to
> crochet for a long time.  But I am interested in being able to do the sort
of
> things my grandmother and great grandmother was able to do.  Do any of you
> know if there was a different technique to crochet 50 years ago?  If not,
can
> anyone recommend a good "How To" book to start learning from?
>
> Thanks,
> Kit
>

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: law and order
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At 7:40 AM -0800 2/21/03, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

>>That said, I'd like to know what the script writers and editors were
>>reading;)
>
>smoking.

My impression of the Law & Order show is that the cases are very 
thinly disguised adaptations of actual real-world cases.  (There was 
one that was very clearly an adaptation of the fatal SF dog mauling 
case, and there have been others that I've recognized from the news.) 
Given that, I'd tend to see any "analysis" of motive as being 
individual and anecdotal -- not intended to be some sweeping social 
generalization.  (Keep in mind that sometimes the "criminal profile" 
information offered on this show turns out to be dead wrong within 
the context of the episode itself.)

So I'd interpret the recent episode as suggesting that there was an 
actual criminal case involving a woman trying to make it in the 
fashion industry who happened to have a father who was disparaging of 
her interests, and part of whose motivation in committing various 
crimes may have been to "prove something" to her father.  As an 
individual person.  Not as a general social pattern.

Heather
-- 
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Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 21 14:39:53 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:33:30 -0500
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People say my color is very natural looking.  Before turning gray, I had a
lot of natural red highlights.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lady Mariota" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:33 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant


> And do it right - red red red.
>
> I was at an event recently and overheard part of a conversation
> ".....have you ever seen so many brightly fake redheads in one place?"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 12:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant
>
>
> > On Thursday 20 February 2003 06:55 pm, Penny Ladnier wrote:
> > > Meagn,
> > >
> > > Our (the 4 sisters) battles with mom was over makeup and she couldn't
> stand
> > > people who dye their hair.  Mom did neither.  As adults 3 of the 4
> sisters
> > > have been a redhead at some point.  I have been one for about 10
years.
> > > Unfortunately, we inherited Dad's pre-mature gray hair.  I am at 100%
> gray
> > > now at 45 y.o.... but it is covered with red dye... all three feet of
my
> > > hair!
> >
> > Good for you!  I'm glad to know I'm not the only person persistently
> dyeing
> > all of my long (but not 3 ft. by any means) hair red!
> > --
> > Cathy Raymond 
> >
> > "If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> _______________________________________________
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>


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From: Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A little rant
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:15:40 -0800 (PST)
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Oh, yeah... When I was in my early teens (i.e., the early '80s), my
mom wanted me to dress like she had when she was that age -- saddle
shoes or penny loafers, pleated plaid skirts, white button-down
shirts...  Yeah, preppy was in at that point, but this definitely
wasn't a good look for me.  She also tried giving me a home perm so
that I had curly hair like hers; that simply does NOT work with my
face.   I still shudder when looking at the school photos from those
years.  To this day I'm averse to pink, ruffles, and lace, all of
which look great on her but awful on me.    

We had some real fights when I started to wear blue jeans (which she
calls 'dungarees') to high school.  She's learned not to tell me what
to do with my hair... She's of the school that believes that women
over a certain age should either cut their hair short or put it up. 
I have long hair, and often wear it down in a ponytail or braid.

-- Mara

> Meaghn wrote:
> 
> < with their
> mothers over clothes?  I always suspected that it
> wasn't
> really the *clothes* we were arguing about, but rather
> that
> I was refusing to be dressed and controlled like her
> paper
> doll.>>


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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: law and order
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:18:26 -0500
Status: RO

Heather,

I agree about the writing being geared towards the current events.  I recall
the episode about a doctor running over her cheating husband earlier this
year or late last year.  We watch so many of the L&O series, I mix up the
shows.  Its coming to the point one of their series will be on every night
of the week like Dateline.

If that is the case... was the fashion student from NYU or FIT?????  BTW,
the student in the show was a design student.  Just joking... but it did
leave me wondering.  Anyone hear of a case with a crazed fashion student?

Just a thought... could you see a show on a crazed fabricolic????????
Killing for fabric!!! <>>>>

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: "Nancy Kiel" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:34:46 -0500
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Darn, make me look at my 1920's fashion books!  in French Fashion 
Illustrations of the Twenties, 634 Cuts from La Vie Parisienne edited by 
Carol Belanger Grafton, there are a few dresses which look evening wear to 
me with cloche and large hats and turbans, but the dresses have no text. In 
French Fashion Plates in Full Color from the Gazette du Bon Ton (1912-1925), 
evening wraps and dinner dresses show full headwear.  French Art Deco 
Fashions in pochoir prints from the 1920s shows a turban and a cloche hat 
(gold lame with a black and gold feather).  A quick glance through Erte 
shows a few evening cloches.  I can't tell if any of the hats listed above 
are beaded. The vast majority of evening headwear though, if worn, is some 
kind of bandeau or tiara.  Your hair doesn't have to be bobbed though---can 
you marcel wave the front and put up the back?



Nancy Kiel
nancy_kiel@hotmail.com
Never tease a weasel!
This is very good advice.
For the weasel will not like it
And teasing isn't nice.

>
>
>                    --- Original Message -----
>From: "Kim Baird" 
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:09 PM
>Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloche hat from the 1920's
>
>
> >
> > The cover illustrations both show a cloches on the model and a cloche
> > would
> > hide my short, but definitely-not-a-bob, haircut. But I was hoping not
> > to
> > have to spend too much to finish off the outift. Would shaped felt be
> > more
> > appropriate, or could I get away with a knitted/crocheted hat for
> > evening
> > wear? _______________________________________________


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 21 15:44:38 2003
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From: Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Discussion on current use of fur in Siberia
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:44:37 -0800 (PST)
Status: RO

Very interesting.

I was vaguely considering buying a vintage fur coat (or fake fur) on
Ebay earlier this winter, when we were having such cold weather,
because my regular wool coat wasn't keeping me warm at all, despite
layers of wooly sweaters.  Besides, buying a used coat on Ebay is a
form of recycling, isn't it?   (The only way I could justify the
expense on something that would be, for me, so essentially
frivolous...)  The DC area simply doesn't get that cold, most
winters..

I lined a (medieval-ish) wool coat with a good-quality fake fur about
7 years ago, and wound up taking the lining back out because it was
too warm; I was overheating during the part of my commute when I'm in
either a heated car or public transit.  I later got rid of the lining
material, and now regret that I'd done so because I probably could
have made it to button into the coat for those one or two weeks per
year when it would be useful.

I can see where Siberian weather would encourage one to use furs
more!  There's nothing that traps body heat quite like that...

-- Mara

--- MaddNancy@aol.com wrote:
> Although the following discussion is based on current, not
> historical usage 
> of fur, I thought people might find it interesting.  A friend who
> is 
> currently working on her dissertation in Siberia sent it to me.  
> 
> FUR:
> Â  Â  This is much more common in Russia (both Moscow and
> Irkutsk) than in New York, and probably more common here even than
> in more northern parts of the US (Maine, Minnesota, Vermont,
> etc.).  People walk around on the streets wearing fur coats, fur
> hats, fur mittens, and even fur boots (not necessarily all on the
> same person). (snip)

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Just a side note I find amusing.  My Mother resisted for YEARS my wearing of jeans and my getting my ears pierced.  After mine were pierced, she had hers pierced so she could have REAL diamond earrings without the risk of loosing them.  When I finally talked her into wearing jeans and a sweat shirt for comfort and she would not be shunned by society, I now cannot get her out of them.  Just for the record----My Mother is now 76 yrs. old.   She now goes EVERYWHERE in her blue jeans and tennis shoes !  (depending on the shirt, it is also without a braa !)  I now resort to giving her NICE jewelry for Christmas and her birthdays to get her OUT of her jeans !   WHAT A REVERSE ROLE !!  I have to laugh !   Actually, my Mother and I have always been close and done things together.  When she was 70, I took her snow skiing for her first time.  She claims I might be trying to kill her off but, I claim I!
 keep her young.  She knows I love her dearly and love being able to offer her new and exciting experiences she did not get to enjoy before.


 


Diane


 


--- Diane Mathews



--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.


 




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Is this the style you were referring to?
I found this beaded cloche on the Trashy Diva site
http://www.trashydiva.com/TrashyDivaVintage/20hatbead1.JPG

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis

At 04:15 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> > But Kim, I have a number of beaded cloche hats from the 20's and these
>would
> > never be worn as day wear.  I also have a number of the fancy head bands
> > that are the cliche of 20's headwear. They were usually worn with dance
> > costumes of the flapper type.
> > Kathleen
> >
>Ooooho - beads! What is the base of the hats? Still felt?
>
>**********************
>Rebecca Schmitt
>aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of Bristol,
>BRF FOF

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Is this the style you were referring to? 

I found this beaded cloche on the Trashy Diva site 

http://www.trashydiva.com/TrashyDivaVintage/20hatbead1.JPG


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 


At 04:15 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:


> But Kim, I have a number of
beaded cloche hats from the 20's and these

would

> never be worn as day wear.  I also have a number of the fancy
head bands

> that are the cliche of 20's headwear. They were usually worn with
dance

> costumes of the flapper type.

> Kathleen

>

Ooooho - beads! What is the base of the hats? Still felt?


**********************

Rebecca Schmitt

aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot, cod merchant of
Bristol,

BRF FOF



--=====================_27081187==.ALT--

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At 07:00 AM 2/21/2003 -0700, you wrote:

"Kate M Bunting"  wrote:

>I was at university in the early 70s, but I remember the height of the 
>mini-skirt craze being a few years earlier, ariund 1967-8

That's about when it started, though it continued on in varying forms and 
strengths until the disco craze picked up and tulip skirts became the rage...

> >Hated mini skirts
>
>My thighs are much too short to give the right "leggy" look in a mini-skirt.

My legs are too short and too fat for any above-the-knee skirt.

> >Hated sizzlers more, but at least the ones I was given were made for
> >someone much taller than me and came with matching underpants so they
> >weren't *too* bad
>
>Sizzlers?

There were pretty much three versions of "mini" in the mini-skirt:

Mini-skirt:  Anything above the knee. This was the mid-sixties mini-skirt.

Micro-mini:  This would have exposed most of the thigh, but may still have 
been "decent" if you were careful bending/bending over. I believe these 
were introduced some time between 1969 and 1971.

Sizzler:  In theory, this was shorter than even the micro-mini -- short 
enough to barely be decent (i.e., cover your bum) if you were standing up 
straight -- and extremely low-rise. They usually came with matching bikinis 
which you needed to wear in order to have any semblance of "decency". I'm 
thinking they came in somewhere around 1971 or so, and were totally out of 
the scene by about 1974...

> >Hated bell bottoms, mostly because the "knees" hit at about my ankles
>
>I've not worn them since they came back into fashion, but in 1971-2 they 
>were so universal (at least among young people) that you would have felt 
>uncomfortably conspicuous in straight-legged trousers.

I couldn't get a pair to fit! This was before proportioned-length pants 
came around (and the inseams on those have been creeping longer and longer 
lately... I could swear that the last couple pair of *petite* slacks I 
bought had the same inseam lengths as the "average" slacks...). Every 
single fracking pair of bell-bottoms I tried on started its "bell" on me 
somewhere between the belly of the calf and the ankle, with 6-8" of leg 
trailing on the floor... OK, this was mid- to late-seventies, as I wouldn't 
touch a pair of *blue jeans* until about 1974-75...

> >Hated too-tight Huk-a-Poos
>
>What on earth were they? Don't think we had them in Britain!

Polyester-knit men's shirts (remember Qiana?), with printed designs that 
ranged from flowers to fine-art prints. The most usual designs were either 
geometric or they were stylized, mostly-geometric "scenes from life" type 
artwork. They looked fine whent fit snuggly on fit young men and teenaged 
boys, but the style for teenaged *girls* wearing them was to have them so 
tight that the buttons threatened to pop open at the slightest breath. 
Needless to say, from the side view you could tell what color bra the girl 
was wearing (if indeed she was wearing one at all)...

>Other fashions I remember from this time were tank tops (which in Britain 
>were knitted sleeveless pullovers worn over a shirt)

I think ours were short-sleeved and came later (mid- to late-seventies) -- 
a winter style was for girls to put pretty short-sleeved t-shirts over 
man-tailored shirt blouses, tuck the lot into their "boot-cut" (in this 
case, NARROW or tapered leg instead of today's WIDE or flared leg) 
hip-hugger Levis (yes, it had to be Levi's brand), and tuck the bottoms of 
their Levis into their Frye boots (yes, it had to be Frye brand).

We also had "tube tops" which were strapless and worn without anything 
underneath (and only occasionally with a shirt over it, either open or tied 
in a knot just under the breasts). The tube tops were unwearable if you had 
breasts larger than an A cup...

>and the first Laura Ashley floral prints. We used to wear loose flowered 
>tops that looked like maternity clothes.

Yes; the ones that were vaguely Empire waisted with the sash ties and the 
belled sleeves. If you had any breasts at all, you looked pregnant in them. 
I'd (thankfully) forgotten about those...


Brenda
webwarren@earthlink.net


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> We also had "tube tops" which were strapless and worn without anything
> underneath (and only occasionally with a shirt over it, either open or
> tied in a knot just under the breasts). The tube tops were unwearable
> if you had breasts larger than an A cup...

Unfortunately, if you had breasts smaller than a B cup there wasn't 
enough breast to hold them up. (Sigh. I only tried them once. I 
actually think I'd do better in them now, but it would be like mutton 
dressed as lamb in a *BIG* way as I finally got my momma's endowment. 
But at least they'd have something to hang onto, unlike my old A and 
AA days.)

Kat



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How on earth did mini skirt-wearers manage to sit without getting arrested?

I wasn't old enough to wear one (kindergarten), and the practicalities have 
always mystified me.

And what about climbing stairs and getting into/out of cars?

I did have a sorta short skirt when I was six, but not too short.  My Baptist 
minister father would have had a stroke if it was TOO short!  ;-)
My mom crochet me a really cool outfit.  It was a vest and skirt made from 
hot pink colored granny squares.  I had a white turtleneck and black go-go 
boots, and thought I was the best-dressed kid on the block (I was, too!   
).

Michelle
===========================================================
                      Steve Plumb -- skplumb@wideopenwest.com
                      Michelle Plumb -- mplumb@wideopenwest.com
                                     Plymouth, Michigan  USA

"Give me ten men like Clouseau, and I could destroy the world."

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:54:32 -0800
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Okay, I admit it.  I wore my skirts really really really short, and as I 
recall, they were pretty much a-line.  I had the legs for it, but I 
sincerely doubt that I had the grace not to give someone a show.  I don't 
think that I really thought about it at the time.  I mean, I remember 
worrying about if my skirt was short enough, but not about bending over. I 
remember worrying about getting in and out of cars. I played volleyball at 
lunch at work and I don't remember putting on something less revealing. I 
also remember that every time I sat down I held my skirt down as I sat so 
that it didn't ride up.  I tried to keep my knees together and bent from 
the knees.  It was probably like running in heels.  If you deal with it on 
a regular basis you develop coping mechanisms without even thinking about 
it. It was a fun era for clothes.

I see my daughter in skirts almost as short today, but she usually wears 
shorts under them or has a leotard and tights on. And, she has a skirt out 
of hot pink colored granny squares... with beads along the hem.  maryann

At 08:16 PM 2/21/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>How on earth did mini skirt-wearers manage to sit without getting arrested?
>
>I wasn't old enough to wear one (kindergarten), and the practicalities have
>always mystified me.
>
>And what about climbing stairs and getting into/out of cars?
>
>I did have a sorta short skirt when I was six, but not too short.  My Baptist
>minister father would have had a stroke if it was TOO short!  ;-)
>My mom crochet me a really cool outfit.  It was a vest and skirt made from
>hot pink colored granny squares.  I had a white turtleneck and black go-go
>boots, and thought I was the best-dressed kid on the block (I was, too!
>).
>
>Michelle
>===========================================================
>                       Steve Plumb -- skplumb@wideopenwest.com
>                       Michelle Plumb -- mplumb@wideopenwest.com
>                                      Plymouth, Michigan  USA
>
>"Give me ten men like Clouseau, and I could destroy the world."
>
>                                         -- Herbert Lom, in
>                                         "A Shot In the Dark"
>===========================================================
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 21 21:00:46 2003
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: 70s fashions, was re: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:14:45 -0600 (CST)
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On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Michelle Plumb wrote:

> How on earth did mini skirt-wearers manage to sit without getting arrested?

Tights.

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 21 21:12:43 2003
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--Apple-Mail-5-968427170
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Design students have to get messy!  why in god's name would we
dress up for class and ruin good dresses with bits of thread, scissor=20
snips,
graphite, watercolors, marking pens....
I usually wear smock like things to school.


On Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 01:27 PM, Gwyn Carnegie wrote:

>
> How odd!=A0 When I was in school at FIDM, the design students wore =
baggy=20
> pants, old sweatshirts, baseball caps, and Docs. The merchandising=20
> students were the girls in suits and heels and the perfect hair every=20=

> day.
>
> At 06:46 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>
> In fact, when I was living in New York in my early twenties and=20
> attended The
> Fashion Institute of Technology, where my fellow classmates wore=20
> cocktail
> dresses to lectures. 
> Lisa
>
>
> Gwyn Carnegie
> University of California, Davis
>
>
>

--Apple-Mail-5-968427170
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Design students have to get messy!  why in god's name would we

dress up for class and ruin good dresses with bits of thread, scissor
snips,

graphite, watercolors, marking pens....=20

I usually wear smock like things to school.



On Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 01:27 PM, Gwyn Carnegie wrote:




How odd!=A0 When I was in school at FIDM, the design students wore baggy
pants, old sweatshirts, baseball caps, and Docs. The merchandising
students were the girls in suits and heels and the perfect hair every
day.


At 06:46 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:


In fact, when I was living in New York in my early twenties and
attended The

Fashion Institute of Technology, where my fellow classmates wore
cocktail

dresses to lectures. <

Lisa



Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis




=

--Apple-Mail-5-968427170--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 21 21:16:43 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Learning to Crochet
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:10:55 -0800
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>Kit, as far as I know, there is no difference in how to crochet from today
>and years ago. If you go to a bookstore or Joanns, or even a yarn store if
>you are so lucky to have one nearby, there are at least a handful of "how to
>start" books. Peruse a few and see which one makes most sense to you and has
>the best illustrations. I find that illustrations are very key to me
>understanding just *how* the
>needle/hook/whatever-implement-I'm-supposed-to-use-for-this-technique is
>supposed to move helps a LOT!

Places like WalMart and Michael's (the craft place) even have 
how-to-crochet books, and something that passes for yarn/thread.

Kayta

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 21 21:40:43 2003
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Someone I know did a thing that people here might think was funny.  She 
made a Greek Revival Regency dress, all white and columnar, and did her 
hair grey and artificially made-up her face to older than she was at the 
time.  She called it 'mutton dressed as Caroline Lamb'.

Kayta

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Paypal agreement
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On Friday 21 February 2003 09:35 am, Cheryldee@aol.com wrote:
> Could someone with legal experience explain to me the differences between
> the new Pay Pal agreement I am being asked to "sign" and the old one. 

I'm a lawyer, but without having both agreements in front of me, I can't even 
make a guess....


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Fri Feb 21 22:29:52 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Discussion on current use of fur in Siberia
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:30:09 -0500
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Mentioning furs... I was surprised to see an ad the other day for some of
the big designers are making coats with real furs again.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:34:38 -0500
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Wal-Mart sells tubetops in the purse section. Don't know why, they just do.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: 70s fashions, was re: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant


> 
> > We also had "tube tops" which were strapless and worn without anything
> > underneath (and only occasionally with a shirt over it, either open or
> > tied in a knot just under the breasts). The tube tops were unwearable
> > if you had breasts larger than an A cup...
> 
> Unfortunately, if you had breasts smaller than a B cup there wasn't 
> enough breast to hold them up. (Sigh. I only tried them once. I 
> actually think I'd do better in them now, but it would be like mutton 
> dressed as lamb in a *BIG* way as I finally got my momma's endowment. 
> But at least they'd have something to hang onto, unlike my old A and 
> AA days.)
> 
> Kat
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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Subject: Re: 70s fashions, was re: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:39:29 -0500
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Oh, I really LOVED my Frye boots and the tucked in style (is my
Hungarian/Prussian heritage showing?)and wore them til they literally fell
apart, long after the style had gone out of style (hey, theatre techies need
boots, right?)
And I remember the yellow-gold mini dress I crocheted.  Whenever I wore it,
it was always longer by the end of the evening.

Kate
-----
 , tuck the lot into their "boot-cut" (in this
> case, NARROW or tapered leg instead of today's WIDE or flared leg)
> hip-hugger Levis (yes, it had to be Levi's brand), and tuck the bottoms of
> their Levis into their Frye boots (yes, it had to be Frye brand).
>


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Subject: Re: 70s fashions, was re: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant
From: Marsha Hamilton 
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 00:12:57 -0500
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>> How on earth did mini skirt-wearers manage to sit without getting arrested?
> 
> Tights.

I wore mini skirts in the 60s and it was a real commitment to fashion
because you had to do a lot of things to keep from flashing people, even
while wearing tights (it would be equally embarrassing to show the panty
area of the tights!).

When you sat down, you put your knees together and generally the ankles
apart with the feet and toes turned in.  That tended to keep the legs
together from the hip to the knee while sitting and gives that
characteristic Twiggy look.  You could also pull the skirt lower once
sitting.

When picking up something, the back was kept straight and all bending was in
the knees and ankles.  I can remember picking up papers by doing a knee
bend, tucking my skirt under my bottom with my arm and then leaning over to
one side trying not to let the skirt pull up.  What we do when we're young!

I still have one of the ones I sewed.  It was a butterfly dress.  White
dotted swiss with a squared neckline gathered with elastic, a very short
A-line skirt, and immense triangular sleeves with almost as much fabric as
the rest of the dress.  The sleeves had a wide band border of ungathered
machine lace.  White on white.  I loved that thing.

Marsha

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoe sizes Thank you!
From: sylvia 
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:37:36 -0700
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Whats the Friday Night Social?

on 2/20/03 2:28 PM, Robin Netherton at robin@shell.nightowl.net wrote:

> 
> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote:
> 
>> I've been galvanised into activity by the discovery that other people
>> are already making their costumes for the Friday Night Social. I am
>> still at the research stage; I've watched 'Some Like It Hot' 4
>> times...
> 
> Already? I'm feeling dreadfully behind! Being rushed and low on funds, I
> picked an easy period -- 1960s -- partly because the research is easy and
> the patterns still readily available, and partly because I found the most
> wonderful 60s-revival psychedelic fabric. I briefly considered using the
> fabric for a Gothic fitted dress (Mod-ieval, get it?) but Karen
> (seamstrix, one of the Costumecon planners) recoiled in horror at the
> thought ;-) Real Mod will be faster, anyway.
> 
> --Robin
> 
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 00:46:47 2003
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shoe sizes Thank you!
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On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, sylvia wrote:

> Whats the Friday Night Social?

At CostumeCon, Easter weekend, where some list members will be in
attendance. See 

(I have less than two months to make costumes and prepare another lecture,
while handling life and work in the meantime. Given my other obligations,
I fear that the Goth Fitted Dress will remain an amusing fantasy.)

--Robin

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Subject: [h-cost] OT-ish Te Papa LotR exhibit
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:29:11 +1300
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Just wanted to let people know I finally got my bottom down to Wellington
for the exhibit, and to say when it does come near you to jolly well get
along and see it!

They was robbed! The costume and make up for TTT is just phenomenal and they
should have been nominated for those at the Oscars. The detail in the
costumes that is not seen is one thing, but the bloody armour... I am not
really versed enough in armour to have been able to take decent notes, but I
was just blown away by it.

So I spent most of my time looking at Galadriel's gown (which is a wonderful
embroidered silk chiffon and should be seen in real life to appreciate how
yummy it really is. As well as Arwen's riding costume (which is sorely
tempting me to make it...), and Arwen's Requiem Costume- no visible
underwear line;).

I also just drooled over Galadriel's ring and have definite plans of finding
a way to reproduce it for myself;), and took brief notes on Sauramon's
robes.

If anyone wants to read my costume notes they are here:
http://recital.tripod.com/costume/tepapalotr.htm

They'll be added to over the next day or so as I get a few general costume
diagrams up, as Arwen's Riding costume sleeves are really strange...

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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From: Lee Thompson-Herbert 
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:51:43 -0800 (PST)
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"michaela"  wrote:
[...] 
> I also just drooled over Galadriel's ring and have definite plans of finding
> a way to reproduce it for myself;), and took brief notes on Sauramon's
> robes.

Much of the jewelry from the movie is being reproduced in silver (rather
than the cheapies that were sold as collector's items):
http://www.lordoftheringsshop.com/lotrshop/jewelry.asp

And if you're really geeky like me, you can own your own One Ring,
made by Badali Jewelry.  I bought the sterling silver with gold lettering
last year when he first started offering them.  Hah, he's even offering
platinum now:
http://www.badalijewelry.com/theonering.htm

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
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Subject: [h-cost] wonderful 60s-revival psychedelic fabric
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:14:25 -0000
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Where is it avaliable online at all ?

Mel

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> > I also just drooled over Galadriel's ring and have definite plans of
finding
> > a way to reproduce it for myself;), and took brief notes on Sauramon's
> > robes.
> Much of the jewelry from the movie is being reproduced in silver (rather
> than the cheapies that were sold as collector's items):
> http://www.lordoftheringsshop.com/lotrshop/jewelry.asp

Nice, but it really does no justice to the real Nenya. It is much finer and
has leafy veins engraved.

I'd rather see if I can make it myself;) Yep, I know some people who do
jewelery and I'm sure I can do this:)

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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Subject: [h-cost] Re: 70s fashions
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[Insert a giggle here] I still have my Frye boots!  I haven't dug into THAT
closet in a while.   And unfortunately,  I don't think they would even fit
anymore.  They are a lovely golden brown, size 7,  and they were actually my
2nd pair - to be worn for "good" situations while I wore out another pair
using them as my motorcycle boots and my wear-all-the-time boots.   I had
those resoled 3 or 4 times!
Now I am going to have to go digging when I get back to Mom's and find them.
   SO, do I enshrine them as a wonderful memory, or just Ebay them?   I just
DETEST getting rid of clothes - you never know when that one piece will be
perfect - a feeling that I know is probably shared here, if anywhere!
Rowena

> Oh, I really LOVED my Frye boots and the tucked in style (is my
> Hungarian/Prussian heritage showing?)and wore them til they literally fell
> apart, long after the style had gone out of style (hey, theatre techies
need
> boots, right?) 
> Kate
> -----
>  , tuck the lot into their "boot-cut" (in this
> > case, NARROW or tapered leg instead of today's WIDE or flared leg)
> > hip-hugger Levis (yes, it had to be Levi's brand), and tuck the bottoms
of
> > their Levis into their Frye boots (yes, it had to be Frye brand).

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:53:42 +0100
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Hi.
I got a "raw" felt foundation for making me a tricorne.
It is a little two tight for me, and i just wondered how i stretch it a
little more.
Should i wet it and then stretch it over my head?
As i am going to wear a wig also, i think i should make it bigger so it wont
spoil the wig!
Any tips are greatly apreciated, i am not that familiar with felt things.
I think it is real good quality, as i baught it from a hat maker.


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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Subject: [h-cost] Ultrashort skirts, was: Re: 70s fashions, was
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> How on earth did mini skirt-wearers manage to sit without getting
> arrested?

If you had very good posture you could get away with a lot more. I 
wore short skirts from the late 60's until the early 80's, and again 
at the end of the 90's. I had several dresses which were so short 
that I wore bloomers with them (which they came with) which were 
called "baby dolls". (Shoot, I still have one of them in my 
"collection.") 

If you walk as if you are balancing books on your head or as if you 
have a string pulling from the ceiling straight from the very top of 
your head so that you do not slouch at all, you will not stick your 
behind out so much and you will not show everything underneath.

When you get into a car you seat your bottom first and gracefully 
bring your legs into the car. (Rather than bending over from the 
waist and putting your legs in first, then pulling yourself into the 
vehicle, which seems to be the way I see myself and others often 
doing it now.)

If you fall onto the floor and have to find a graceful way to get up, 
you very carefully slide your legs around so that they are under you, 
then hopefully have something to help steady you (such as a chair, 
table or a kind friend) as you get up. (Been there, done that. 
Slipped and fell right at the feet of a celebrity at his fan club 
gathering. I had been trapped behind him and slipped as I was trying 
to get out of the crowd after I had said hello. Talk about 
mortification.)

You pick chairs as opposed to couches so that you don't sprawl and 
can get up without a hoist. Keep your head up and back straight, 
lowering yourself onto the chair. Or as I learned in my modeling 
days, thankyou, Nancy Taylor course (and I *still* have all my 
books): "Walk up to any chair...holding your very best posture. Walk 
directly to it... and pivot into a basic stance position so that your 
back leg brushes against the chair seat. You can feel where the seat 
is...no need to look. Now slide your back foot under the chair two or 
three inches. Then lower yourself into the seat. Keep your head erect 
and your back straight. Almost all your weight is carried by the 
thigh of your back leg. Maintain your balance...don't flop into the 
chair with a bang."

You don't bend over to pick up a pencil, but slowly bend your knees 
keeping your back straight (like a *very* deep knee bend.)

Skirts with a little flare are easier to handle than those which are 
tight. 

Don't let the trigometry teacher have you erase the blackboards when 
wearing your purple dress. (Another been there, done that. I always 
wondered why he gave me extra credit when I really didn't need it 
except for getting an extra plus on my A+. One of my classmates clued 
me in finally. But not until I had cleaned them many, many times. 
Like every time I wore my favorite purple dress.)

And make sure you're wearing tights so that they don't see your 
underwear as nylons are too see through. 

Kat



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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] dressing up for school (was: A little Rant)
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BTW, I actually never specified which group wore the cocktail dresses, =
just those in my lectures.  Fashion merchansising and design students =
all had to take the basic english compostition etc........=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Heather Meadows=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [h-cost] dressing up for school (was: A little Rant)


  Design students have to get messy! why in god's name would we
  dress up for class and ruin good dresses with bits of thread, scissor =
snips,
  graphite, watercolors, marking pens....=20
  I usually wear smock like things to school.


  On Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 01:27 PM, Gwyn Carnegie wrote:



    How odd!  When I was in school at FIDM, the design students wore =
baggy pants, old sweatshirts, baseball caps, and Docs. The merchandising =
students were the girls in suits and heels and the perfect hair every =
day.

    At 06:46 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:

    In fact, when I was living in New York in my early twenties and =
attended The
    Fashion Institute of Technology, where my fellow classmates wore =
cocktail
    dresses to lectures. 
    Lisa


    Gwyn Carnegie
    University of California, Davis





------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C2DA3D.04115460
Content-Type: text/html;
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BTW, I actually never specified which =
group wore=20
the cocktail dresses, just those in my lectures.  Fashion =
merchansising and=20
design students all had to take the basic english compostition =
etc........=20




  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Heather=20
  Meadows 
  
  
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 =
9:13=20
  AM

  
Subject: Re: [h-cost] dressing =
up for=20
  school (was: A little Rant)

  

Design students have to get messy! why in god's name =
would=20
  we
dress up for class and ruin good dresses with bits of thread, =
scissor=20
  snips,
graphite, watercolors, marking pens.... 
I usually wear =
smock=20
  like things to school.


On Thursday, February 20, 2003, at =
01:27 PM,=20
  Gwyn Carnegie wrote:


  

How odd!  When I was in school at FIDM, the =
design=20
    students wore baggy pants, old sweatshirts, baseball caps, and Docs. =
The=20
    merchandising students were the girls in suits and heels and the =
perfect=20
    hair every day.

At 06:46 AM 2/20/2003 -0800, you =
wrote:

In=20
    fact, when I was living in New York in my early twenties and =
attended=20
    The
Fashion Institute of Technology, where my fellow classmates =
wore=20
    cocktail
dresses to lectures. =
<snip>
Lisa


Gwyn=20
    Carnegie
University of California, =
Davis





------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C2DA3D.04115460--


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Oh that is so funny.  Also true.  There is a reason some of us look graceful
(you) and others are schlumpy klutzes (me).  I bet you know the beauty
pagent wave too.  My 10 year old niece wants to know how to do that and
someone taught me once, but of course I forgot.   Have you any tips for that
manouver?

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 6:15 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Ultrashort skirts, was: Re: 70s fashions, was


>
> > How on earth did mini skirt-wearers manage to sit without getting
> > arrested?
>
> If you had very good posture you could get away with a lot more. I
> wore short skirts from the late 60's until the early 80's, and again
> at the end of the 90's. I had several dresses which were so short
> that I wore bloomers with them (which they came with) which were
> called "baby dolls". (Shoot, I still have one of them in my
> "collection.")
>
> If you walk as if you are balancing books on your head or as if you
> have a string pulling from the ceiling straight from the very top of
> your head so that you do not slouch at all, you will not stick your
> behind out so much and you will not show everything underneath.
>
> When you get into a car you seat your bottom first and gracefully
> bring your legs into the car. (Rather than bending over from the
> waist and putting your legs in first, then pulling yourself into the
> vehicle, which seems to be the way I see myself and others often
> doing it now.)
>
> If you fall onto the floor and have to find a graceful way to get up,
> you very carefully slide your legs around so that they are under you,
> then hopefully have something to help steady you (such as a chair,
> table or a kind friend) as you get up. (Been there, done that.
> Slipped and fell right at the feet of a celebrity at his fan club
> gathering. I had been trapped behind him and slipped as I was trying
> to get out of the crowd after I had said hello. Talk about
> mortification.)
>
> You pick chairs as opposed to couches so that you don't sprawl and
> can get up without a hoist. Keep your head up and back straight,
> lowering yourself onto the chair. Or as I learned in my modeling
> days, thankyou, Nancy Taylor course (and I *still* have all my
> books): "Walk up to any chair...holding your very best posture. Walk
> directly to it... and pivot into a basic stance position so that your
> back leg brushes against the chair seat. You can feel where the seat
> is...no need to look. Now slide your back foot under the chair two or
> three inches. Then lower yourself into the seat. Keep your head erect
> and your back straight. Almost all your weight is carried by the
> thigh of your back leg. Maintain your balance...don't flop into the
> chair with a bang."
>
> You don't bend over to pick up a pencil, but slowly bend your knees
> keeping your back straight (like a *very* deep knee bend.)
>
> Skirts with a little flare are easier to handle than those which are
> tight.
>
> Don't let the trigometry teacher have you erase the blackboards when
> wearing your purple dress. (Another been there, done that. I always
> wondered why he gave me extra credit when I really didn't need it
> except for getting an extra plus on my A+. One of my classmates clued
> me in finally. But not until I had cleaned them many, many times.
> Like every time I wore my favorite purple dress.)
>
> And make sure you're wearing tights so that they don't see your
> underwear as nylons are too see through.
>
> Kat
> 
>
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 09:55:47 2003
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From: kat@grendal.rain.com
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 06:56:36 -0800
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> Oh that is so funny.  Also true.  There is a reason some of us look
> graceful (you) and others are schlumpy klutzes (me).  I bet you know
> the beauty pagent wave too.  My 10 year old niece wants to know how to
> do that and someone taught me once, but of course I forgot.   Have you
> any tips for that manouver?

While I did model for about two years (mostly children's clothes for 
old ladies garden parties and one designer product show), I never did 
pageants. I wasn't pretty enough (since for runway modeling you 
didn't have to have a pretty face, only a reasonable body and the 
training to be graceful.) I learned the two types of waves (elbow- 
elbow- wrist-wrist-wrist, and the figure 8 move) from friends so that 
we could poke fun at the pageant girls.

I just wish I could have continued to model. (I wanted the money for 
college.) However, I got too big for the girls clothes they wanted me 
to wear (although I continued to wear girls clothes well into my late 
20s because they didn't have 5-7-9 shops and petite boutiques until 
then.) They also didn't want (except for Twiggy, who was considered 
an aberration/anomaly according to the modeling agencies I worked 
for) people as slim as I was. (I was about a current size 2 at the 
time and they didn't want anyone under the size of what was then a 
10, which I believe is now a 6.) I also didn't grow any taller than 
5'4", which was fine when I was doing children's clothes, but I had 
to be a minimum of 5'6" to do adult clothes. Based on my family (who 
are generally above 5'7") and my *very* long legs, I think they 
thought I'd end up tall enough to invest in (which is why they kept 
me the 2 years). However, I never had an adolescent growth spurt. I 
just stopped growing.

Kat



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 10:25:52 2003
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: LIST H costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] wonderful 60s-revival psychedelic fabric
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:41:06 -0600 (CST)
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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Melanie Wilson wrote:

> Where is it avaliable online at all ?

Sorry ... we had a rack of the stuff at the fabric store I work at. I
haven't seen it elsewhere, and we can't depend on seeing more, though I've
seen an isolated bolt come through here and there. (One customer accused
us of trying to sell 30-year-old fabric, and we had to convince her it
really was new.)

You might try the website branch of that store --
 -- but the store usually has fabrics that
aren't on the site.

I got a print with spirals and zigzags in hot pink, orange, yellow, and
blue. (There are also some prints with daisies -- remember those?) I never
thought I'd be buying polyester again in my life. The same print came in a
knit, too, but I figured matching tights would be too much ;-)  There are
differences from the real stuff -- gradations in the color, and the exact
color combinations, I think, plus today's new polyester fabric feels like
a better quality -- but you have to really think about it, as the
immediate impression is that it's a backdrop from Laugh-In.

Truth is, I don't think most people were actually wearing these kinds of
prints; they show up in fashion illustrations and on pictures of
celebrities, of course, but based on ordinary people's photos, pattern
envelopes, etc., bright solids seem more common for dress fabrics. But
it's the wild prints that stick in my memory, and I can remember having an
occasional skirt or top in similar prints and colors when I was a pre-teen
in the early 70s.

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 10:34:36 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Paypal changes (what little I know)
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There does not seem to be many changes that will impact the way they actually handle 
items, although they do seem to have a few more protections in place, for them and for users.

I have an individual account through paypal, although I use it for my business and 
personal stuff.  The biggest impact this will have on me is if someone tries to send me 
money for an item through Paypal and is using a credit card, PayPal will refuse to make 
the transfer unless I set up a "business" account.  That way they can charge the normal 
credit card transaction fees and percentages, which in the past I did not get charged for.

So since I already take credit cards, I am going to have to make it real clear that if 
someone is going to do it through Paypal that it can't be a credit card transfer.

This is going to have an enourmous impact on Ebay sellers that are only occasional 
sellers.  It is going to generate a lot of money for Paypal, because these people will 
have to set up business accounts. and there is a fee for that.


-- 
Linda Thompson

Attitude Is Everything
http://corsetsandcostumes.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 10:34:40 2003
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote:

> Oh that is so funny.  Also true.  There is a reason some of us look
> graceful (you) and others are schlumpy klutzes (me).

Aw, come on. I've met you. No *way* are you a schlumpy klutz!

--Robin

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 11:13:49 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] felt hat question
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:14:45 EST
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If it is 100% wool then it will take on just about any shape.  Consider the 
cowboy hat. You can pad out a styrofoam head or even a coffee can if you 
don't have a hat form.  The trick is to have it pretty much the shape you 
want to create.  What you have is called a blank in the US.  The best way to 
size it is to use a combination of heat and steam.  A home iron will work if 
you have one that has a lot of steam or you can spritz a little with a water 
spray bottle.  Try not to let the iron touch the wool.  They just stretch the 
wool over the form and steam until you have the size you want.  When you're 
finished spray it with something to help it keep its shape.  I use hat sizing 
(millinery laquer) which is hard to come by.  Clear paint gloss might work 
just as well.  That way, when it does get wet it will retain its integrity.  
Cheryl Odom
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 11:24:47 2003
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 08:34:48 -0800
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Oh no, I really am.   I bang into things all the time mostly because I'm
focused on what's going on inside my head and not the outer world.  Once and
this is only an example,  I was taking my empty coffee cup to the kitchen
with my mind full of thoughts of the collapsing of time and space and
sycronicity and the next thing you know I've banged my empty coffee cup into
the wall.  The cup shattered into pieces and fell to the floor and I was
left with a handle in my hand.  When I go places I have to make a special
effort to concentrate on my enviornment, not so I look graceful, but so I
don't break anything!

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts


>
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote:
>
> > Oh that is so funny.  Also true.  There is a reason some of us look
> > graceful (you) and others are schlumpy klutzes (me).
>
> Aw, come on. I've met you. No *way* are you a schlumpy klutz!
>
> --Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 11:32:03 2003
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
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Lisa wrote:
> > > Oh that is so funny.  Also true.  There is a reason some of us look
> > > graceful (you) and others are schlumpy klutzes (me).

I wrote:
> > Aw, come on. I've met you. No *way* are you a schlumpy klutz!

Lisa replied:
> Oh no, I really am.  I bang into things all the time mostly because
> I'm focused on what's going on inside my head and not the outer world.  
> Once and this is only an example, I was taking my empty coffee cup to
> the kitchen with my mind full of thoughts of the collapsing of time
> and space and sycronicity and the next thing you know I've banged my
> empty coffee cup into the wall.  The cup shattered into pieces and
> fell to the floor and I was left with a handle in my hand.

OK, I'll spot you the "klutz" part. But not the "schlumpy." ;-)

--Robin



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Some people never did get the hang of how to sit in a mini, and still
haven't.  My neighbor adores short denim minis, and she flashes her crotch
every time she sits down.  She wonders why none of the other soccer moms
like her;  Gee, could it be the free show she's giving the soccer dads?

Margo 
"One Tough Costumer"


The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
http://www.margospatterns.com
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Mara wrote:

<>

Now, before you start throwing rocks at me, remember,
my comments are strictly my own opinions; you can darn
well do whatever you want. 8-D

Most hairdressers recommend that their older
(chronologically) clients keep their hair "short and
styled," rather than the long, untrimmed locks of
their youth. I had a long discussion with my own
hairdresser about this yesterday. Long unstyled hair,
especially when it is worn down, can throw
unflattering shadows on your face, and give you the
appearance of being much older than you are. If you
are wearing your hair "scraped back" into a ponytail,
braid, or chignon all the time, you have to ask
yourself, "Why?" Many times, it's to keep your hair
out of your eyes and face. At that point, it's time to
start considering cutting it off and getting it styled
in such a way to keep it from driving you crazy.

In my own case (remember, your own situations are
different), I went from waist-length brown going to
speckled gray to collar-length auburn with red
highlights and took about 15 years off my looks (a
good thing once you pass 40). My hair always looks
nice and takes about 10 minutes to style. It's a bit
of a pain for historical stuff (which accounts for
less than 50 days a year), but that's why I have a
large collection of wigs and hair pieces (all of which
I can wear because I don't have 3 feet of hair to deal
with. Cutting my hair off also had an added
benefit--when it's long it's wavy, and the longer it
is, the straighter it is. When it's short, I have that
wonderful curly hair that other people get perms to
achieve. 

Dawn 

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacobson Dawn" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:59 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Re: A little rant


My hair is past my waist, and still growing steadily. I'm almost 40, and it
is the longest it's been since I was ten years old. Cutting it off is not
really an option for me. It grows SO fast that I would have to have the back
trimmed at minimum every three weeks--any kind of bangs would need it every
two weeks. I get a bug every five years or so to cut it, and afterwards,
remember all of this. I have neither the time nor the money to get my hair
trimmed often enough to keep with any sort of style. Short or long, it
laughs at barrettes, ponytails, braids, buns--it can slide out of any of 'em
in no time flat.  I could wear it styled--if I cut it to about an inch long
and wore wigs all the time. Erm, no.

So, I wash it at night, brush it out well in the morning, and off I go. Five
minutes, tops, and if nothing else, people recognize me by my hair!!

YMMV, but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till it's long enough
to sit on.

Dianne






. At that point, it's time to
> start considering cutting it off and getting it styled
> in such a way to keep it from driving you crazy.
>
> In my own case (remember, your own situations are
> different), I went from waist-length brown going to
> speckled gray to collar-length auburn with red
> highlights and took about 15 years off my looks (a
> good thing once you pass 40). My hair always looks
> nice and takes about 10 minutes to style. It's a bit
> of a pain for historical stuff (which accounts for
> less than 50 days a year), but that's why I have a
> large collection of wigs and hair pieces (all of which
> I can wear because I don't have 3 feet of hair to deal
> with. Cutting my hair off also had an added
> benefit--when it's long it's wavy, and the longer it
> is, the straighter it is. When it's short, I have that
> wonderful curly hair that other people get perms to
> achieve.
>
> Dawn
>
> =====
> Dawn Jacobson
> Vallejo, CA, USA
>
> Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
> --Dalai Lama
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Subject: [h-cost] Frye boots
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To the person who was wondering whether they should dig up their '70's Frye
boots:

I've read a few fashion magazines that say that they are a much-desired
vintage item, and even being manufactured again - another case of what goes
around, comes around. If you choose to sell them on Ebay or similar you'd
probably get a good price.

But they're supposed to be pretty sturdy, correct? If they're still in good
shape you might want to wear them.

Allison

------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C2DA70.9511CFC0
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Frye boots





To the person who was wondering whether they should =
dig up their '70's Frye boots:




I've read a few fashion magazines that say that they =
are a much-desired vintage item, and even being manufactured again - =
another case of what goes around, comes around. If you choose to sell =
them on Ebay or similar you'd probably get a good price.



But they're supposed to be pretty sturdy, correct? If =
they're still in good shape you might want to wear them.




Allison





------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C2DA70.9511CFC0--

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      It's time to mention it again - The Long Hair site,
http://www.tlhs.org/

      At the bottom of the "info' page is instructions on how to join 
the e-mail list.  There are several h-costume members who are also on 
the tlhs list.

Dianne wrote,
>YMMV, but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till it's long 
>enough to sit on.

      That's a popular attitude on the list!  Except for those who 
already can, and are looking forward to ankle length.  :-)

      -Carol
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From: "Linda J. Thompson" 



> This is going to have an enourmous impact on Ebay sellers that are only
occasional
> sellers.  It is going to generate a lot of money for Paypal, because these
people will
> have to set up business accounts. and there is a fee for that.
>

Fee for a business account?  News to me (and I have one).  They DO take a
percentage of each transaction- is that what you mean?  To me, that is the
cost for using their service (especially since it is less than what most
other sources charge).  Do personal accounts take a percentage?

Lyn Greaves
Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton
COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander




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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 13:36:48 2003
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From: annora 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 08:37:47 -1000 (HST)
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> YMMV, but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till it's long enough
> to sit on.

	This gave me a quick chuckle because it was my goal too.  I said
I'd let my hair grow until it was long enough to sit on and when it did
get long enough, it ended up being sat upon and jerking my head back when
I moved.  But no, I'm not cutting my 3+ feet of hair either :>.

--annora (new goal is halfway to my knees)

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frye boots
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--Apple-Mail-13-1060505681
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I've had a pair I've been wearing since 1990 --
I remember I didn't have any cash on me, and I BEGGED my mother
for the $5 the thrift store wanted for them.  She hated them.
They will never die, despite being used for cat claw sharpening,
and having been reheeled 3 times.

.heather.


On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 09:47 AM, A.Thurman wrote:

> To the person who was wondering whether they should dig up their '70's 
> Frye boots:
>
> I've read a few fashion magazines that say that they are a 
> much-desired vintage item, and even being manufactured again - another 
> case of what goes around, comes around. If you choose to sell them on 
> Ebay or similar you'd probably get a good price.
>
> But they're supposed to be pretty sturdy, correct? If they're still in 
> good shape you might want to wear them.
>
> Allison
>

--Apple-Mail-13-1060505681
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I've had a pair I've been wearing since 1990 -- 

I remember I didn't have any cash on me, and I BEGGED my mother 

for the $5 the thrift store wanted for them.  She hated them.

They will never die, despite being used for cat claw sharpening,

and having been reheeled 3 times.


.heather.



On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 09:47 AM, A.Thurman wrote:


To the person who was wondering whether they should
dig up their '70's Frye boots:


I've read a few fashion magazines that say that they are a
much-desired vintage item, and even being manufactured again - another
case of what goes around, comes around. If you choose to sell them on
Ebay or similar you'd probably get a good price.


But they're supposed to be pretty sturdy, correct? If they're
still in good shape you might want to wear them.


Allison



--Apple-Mail-13-1060505681--

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 14:13:51 2003
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I wanted a pair so badly in high school... finally I got enough money, or 
got my parents to spot me some (I don't recall which) and went to the store 
in the mall. Unfortunately, I've always had heavy calves and wide feet, and 
the pull-on styles that were so in-vogue didn't get up over my calves. I 
ended up buying a lace-up style which *barely* worked. Unfortunately, the 
leather was so stiff that I could never wear them without them hurting my 
toes and calves. It was the worst investment I'd ever made up to that time, 
and at $70, the most expensive: I don't think I wore those torture devices 
more than a half-dozen times. Once I started fencing (in university), my 
calves got sufficiently larger that I couldn't wear those boots at all. 
Years later, I think I ended up giving them to one of my sister's friends 
who had thinner feet and calves and who absolutely adored them. Either that 
or they ended up in a charity bin or in the trash; I don't recall for 
certain which.

Brenda
webwarren@earthlink.net


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 14:16:27 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <15a.1c2cf863.2b88fbf5@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] felt hat question
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:18:22 +0100
Status: RO

Dear Cheryl
I thank you for your wonderfull help.
I am going to stitch a strip of my suit taffeta on the edge of the tricorne,
then i suppose it dont matter that i use a white millinery wire to the edge,
when it is hidden under the silk band.
Thanks for your help

Bjarne



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] felt hat question


> If it is 100% wool then it will take on just about any shape.  Consider
the
> cowboy hat. You can pad out a styrofoam head or even a coffee can if you
> don't have a hat form.  The trick is to have it pretty much the shape you
> want to create.  What you have is called a blank in the US.  The best way
to
> size it is to use a combination of heat and steam.  A home iron will work
if
> you have one that has a lot of steam or you can spritz a little with a
water
> spray bottle.  Try not to let the iron touch the wool.  They just stretch
the
> wool over the form and steam until you have the size you want.  When
you're
> finished spray it with something to help it keep its shape.  I use hat
sizing
> (millinery laquer) which is hard to come by.  Clear paint gloss might work
> just as well.  That way, when it does get wet it will retain its
integrity.
> Cheryl Odom
> _______________________________________________
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From: "Wanda Pease" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:52:21 -0800
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	I had waist length hair which had been growing for 25 years without
anything but an occasional trim.  Then, last spring it began to come out in
handfuls. I would carefully wash it and then comb it out.  The comb would
fill up two or three times before I was finished, and believe me I was being
careful about tugging on it, or generally doing anything different than I
had ever done.  I was getting very thin (only in the hair, sadly) and what
had been a respectable pony-tail became the thickness of a kindergarten
crayola.
	I tried everything and nothing seemed to help.  As you may notice from the
crayola example I'm not exactly young.  I had gone through the "change"
(Halleluiah!  The best thing to happen to my body since breasts) several
years ago and had no problems.  I finally went to the gynecologist and had
my estrogen adjusted and that seemed to stop the problem.  I stopped losing
hair, and began to grow some of it back, but it's never going to be as thick
as it was.  I wonder if this isn't another reason why older women tend to
cut their hair short.

Regina

> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of annora
> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 10:38 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
>
>
> > YMMV, but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till it's
> long enough
> > to sit on.
>
> 	This gave me a quick chuckle because it was my goal too.  I said
> I'd let my hair grow until it was long enough to sit on and when it did
> get long enough, it ended up being sat upon and jerking my head back when
> I moved.  But no, I'm not cutting my 3+ feet of hair either :>.
>
> --annora (new goal is halfway to my knees)
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Sat Feb 22 15:50:59 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Paypal Accounts
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The 2.9% and .30 per transaction is the fee I am talking about.  This fee gets charged 
even if the individual is paying you through their reserves.  On personal accounts there 
is no fee for that.


-- 
Linda Thompson

Attitude Is Everything
http://corsetsandcostumes.com


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] felt hat question
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:56:52 -0500
Status: RO

For resizing, I have borrowed a trick from doll making suggestions and that
is to spray it with superhold hairspray.  It dries fairly quickly, doesn't
shrink the felt and keeps the shape for a reasonable time if you don't sit
on it or such.  It is very useful if you have managed to 'ding' the crown.
If you saturate the felt, you can reshape with your fingers while it dries.
Works for me...Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] felt hat question


> If it is 100% wool then it will take on just about any shape.  Consider
the
> cowboy hat. You can pad out a styrofoam head or even a coffee can if you
> don't have a hat form.  The trick is to have it pretty much the shape you
> want to create.  What you have is called a blank in the US.  The best way
to
> size it is to use a combination of heat and steam.  A home iron will work
if
> you have one that has a lot of steam or you can spritz a little with a
water
> spray bottle.  Try not to let the iron touch the wool.  They just stretch
the
> wool over the form and steam until you have the size you want.  When
you're
> finished spray it with something to help it keep its shape.  I use hat
sizing
> (millinery laquer) which is hard to come by.  Clear paint gloss might work
> just as well.  That way, when it does get wet it will retain its
integrity.
> Cheryl Odom
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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        I am 68 and my hair is working it's way back down my back.  Right
now it is about bra length, but it grows way too fast.  I have gone from
the Italian boy cut of the 50's to sit upon lengths and always seem to
give up fooling with it short after a year or so and let it grow.  I am
told I am too old for long hair, but frankly I don't much care.  It just
seems to be me in spite of the fact that it probably does drag my face
down some.  At 68 I am not going to look like a 20 something no matter
how short or long my hair is.  I did lose a lot of it before I was
finally diagnosed as have a thyroid problem, but it is pretty much
stabilized now that I am on regular meds.   It sure isn't as thick as it
used to be, but I really think longer hair is easier to take care of and
wear than the shorter hair.  Except for taking longer to dry, that is.

        It is really nice to live at a time when you don't have to wear
certain styles of clothing, shoes and hair just because you have passed
50.  Give me my jeans, T-shirts, joggers and long hair and I am a happy
camper.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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>I am
>told I am too old for long hair, but frankly I don't much care.

I see lots more long hair, on women our age and older, now than I ever used 
to.  I think it's because these women, in their 20s, were Hippies, and had 
long hair then (I live in Northern California, remember?).  I'm talking 
about grey hair down to their waists.  Nobody around here says they're too 
old for that.


Kayta

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Subject: advice wanted (was Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:32:55 -0800
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>but I really think longer hair is easier to take care of and
>wear than the shorter hair.  Except for taking longer to dry, that is.

I disagree, and am looking for a shorter style for my own hair.  Shorter 
hair is easier to brush, and never gets as tangled - mine's so fine and 
wavy that it's like snarled straw if it doesn't have enough conditioner on it.

>         It is really nice to live at a time when you don't have to wear
>certain styles of clothing, shoes and hair just because you have passed
>50.

I'm looking around, again, for a style that looks current enough that I 
don't look like a fossilized Hippie, but still long enough to put up into 
something late Victorian-Edwardian.  At my age I am figuring that an 1890s 
French-roll-like style would do me all the way to the early 1900s.  For 
1880s, I can do a modified 1860s thing, because if this were the 1880s then 
I would have been in my 30s in the 1860s.  And in the 1850s-60s, I can put 
it up under a cap, so who cares what length it really is in back.

Any suggestions on a relatively current style that will be long enough, in 
back, to do up Edwardian, where I can't hide it under a cap?


Kayta

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Subject: [h-cost] Re: 70s fashions
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 02:56:51 -0500
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To understand how females sat in mini skirt you need to think about what
they wore before.  Girls from a very young age were taught how to sit and
walk appropriately in either large skirt dresses or A-shaped.  Manners and
social graces were around even when mini-skirts were arounds.  Girls were
taught to sit with their legs close together or crossed.  Most of the time
when girls sat in mini shirts, you tucked the skirt under, sat down, and
then pulled the hem downward as much as possible.  Heaven forbid if someone
could look up your skirt.  You wou be thought of as a *BAD GIRL*.
Personally, Mom would pop my sisters and I if we didn't sit correctly, long
or short skirts.  It didn't matter. Heck, I remember getting popped for not
sitting correctly in shorts or pants.  It didn't matter how much or little
money you had, or social status, girls sat a certain way.

When girls walked in mini-skirts, it was one step slightly moving one in
front of the other, gracefully or sexy if you wanted.  When walking up or
down stairs, you would slightly held on to the hem of the skirt.

When females wore pants the majority of the time in the late 70s to early
80s, you start to see a lot of social graces disappear.

Think of who taught girls social graces during the 50s-70s... their moms.
By the late 70s more women entered the workforce.  Generally, Mom wasn't
available to teach the social graces or have enough time to devote to them.
This doesn't mean that all moms didn't do it, but you can see a large shift
at this time.  Another thing to consider during the time was a shift to
rebell against what your parents taught you.  Enter the norm of long hair
(both sexes) and bell bottoms.  It was a time of sex, drugs, and rock' N
roll. Then it got to where middle-age people wore long hair and bell
bottoms... fashion shifted again.

A fun thing to do is watch Game Show Network and see how the fashions change
on average people in the decade of the 70s. Also pay attention as to how
sexual terms are used.  By the end of the 70s, boobs was a common word.

In the fashion life cycle, when a shift occurs, is when the fashion peaks
(everyone wears it) and then the decline (everyone is bored with it).  In
this case, the 60s-early 80s, fashion went from mini-skirts and bell-bottoms
to disco/glam to activewear.  Also look at what else happened during this
time frame, the Vietnam War ended during this time, disco was popular, cable
TV, and the world on moved on to MTV and CNN... life moved on.  All of this
occured in 6-7 years.   I recall watching Bandstand to watch the latest
fashions once a week.  When MTV first aired in August 1981, (I did watch it
and VH1 first come on the air), I thought WOW I can see the latest fashions
of rock stars 24 hours a day.

Whenever you look at fashion history it is important to look at what
happened before, during and after the fashion to get a true understanding of
why a fashion happened.  During the early 80s there was a big push in
fashion for exercise/active wear, jogging suits, sports shoes, etc.  What
Olivia Newton John *Get Physical* did for exercise wear was unreal!!!  This
was when it was not the norm females did not have to sit with crossed legs
when wearing a jogging suit.  This is also when ladies started walking in
strides instead of *ladylike*.  By the late 80s to early 90s, skirt lengths
were a few inches beneath the knees and as the 90s moved on the skirt length
lowered to mid-calf.  In a long loose dress one can walk at a rather faster
pace and in longer strides.  By the mid 90s the width of the skirt started
narrowing but the length was the same.  By the late 90s the dresses and
skirts slimmed down more.  Women's strides are not as wide previously as
they were in the 80s.  Go to any city's downtown at lunch and watch ladies
walk.  I think we are making an evolution of dress.... we have almost made
the full circle.

Don't think so... those of us who can remember the 60s and the 70s look at
the Target store and Volkwagon commericals... look and laugh at a fonder
time, while our children are thinking it is something cool.   My kids born
in the 80s and early 90s, would love to have a VW.  My son born in 1976...
he is into preppy status cars.

One last thing to remember... the 60s and 70s was when the largest amount of
youth were ever in the world... Baby Boomers.  By the 70s, culture was
geared towards this.  Watch out!  Our generation will, not long from now, be
the largest senior population ever.  The marketing world has been preparing
for this for the past 10 years.

I own two new pairs of bell bottoms and several pairs of platform shoes.  I
still wear a bikini, and love every minute of it!!!!!!!  And I can enjoy my
favorite fashion periods again... now that they are fashionable again!!!!!
You are only as old as you feel!

As my father said once, I have lived in a wonderful time... I saw man's
transportation change from a bicycle to a car to a spaceship on the moon.
All in 69 years.  Imagine how much fashion changed during his lifetime.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: Re: advice wanted (was Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:17:44 -0500
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>>but I really think longer hair is easier to take care of and
>>wear than the shorter hair.  Except for taking longer to dry, that is.
>
>I disagree, and am looking for a shorter style for my own hair. 
>Shorter hair is easier to brush, and never gets as tangled - mine's 
>so fine and wavy that it's like snarled straw if it doesn't have 
>enough conditioner on it.

      It really depends on the hair type.  I have wavy hair, and when 
it was short it never did what it was supposed to.  When it's long, 
it's wonderful.  When I don't want to deal with it, I can twist it up 
into a bun and I never have a bad hair day!

      -Carol
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From: Charlene Charette 
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"Linda J. Thompson" wrote:

> I have an individual account through paypal, although I use it for my business and
> personal stuff.  The biggest impact this will have on me is if someone tries to send me
> money for an item through Paypal and is using a credit card, PayPal will refuse to make
> the transfer unless I set up a "business" account.  That way they can charge the normal
> credit card transaction fees and percentages, which in the past I did not get charged for.

This isn't new.  I had to upgrade from a personal account to a business
account to accept credit cards quite some time ago.

--Charlene

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> >I disagree, and am looking for a shorter style for my own hair.
> >Shorter hair is easier to brush, and never gets as tangled - mine's
> >so fine and wavy that it's like snarled straw if it doesn't have
> >enough conditioner on it.

Except that short hair also requires it kept in shape;) i.e. needs cutting
frequently;)

I have hair just able able to be sat on and it requires bugger all work. I
wash it once a week so on other days it's usually just in a plait and maybe
brushed.

>       It really depends on the hair type.  I have wavy hair, and when
> it was short it never did what it was supposed to.  When it's long,
> it's wonderful.  When I don't want to deal with it, I can twist it up
> into a bun and I never have a bad hair day!

Mine's half way between the two examples. It's really fine, and if it's out
it tangles dreadfully, but it's easy to brush and all I need is an elastic;)

If I wear it up a pair of chopsticks.

If I cut mine short, blerg. wavy and fine and it would look dreadful.
Besides having a yucky shaped head;)

Besides, having long hair (with no fringe) is ideal for historical stuff:)

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: advice wanted (was Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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> >       It really depends on the hair type.  I have wavy hair, and when
> > it was short it never did what it was supposed to.  When it's long,
> > it's wonderful.  When I don't want to deal with it, I can twist it up
> > into a bun and I never have a bad hair day!
>
>Mine's half way between the two examples. It's really fine, and if it's out
>it tangles dreadfully, but it's easy to brush and all I need is an elastic;)
>
>If I wear it up a pair of chopsticks.
>
>If I cut mine short, blerg. wavy and fine and it would look dreadful.
>Besides having a yucky shaped head;)
>
>Besides, having long hair (with no fringe) is ideal for historical stuff:)

I suffer from heat, and I sweat behind my glasses, on a Summer day, just 
from wearing the requisite face-shading historical hat.  That's reason one 
to cut my hair shorter.  Reason two is that it is so prone to tangling that 
I can't ever let it down - I always have to wear it up.  Every time it gets 
to the the current length, I wonder why I bother with keeping it 
long.  (Having a boyfriend who likes it long is not a sufficient reason, 
because he never sees it down unless I have just washed it.)  Reason three, 
I just found out tonight, is that one of the local cheapie hair-cutting 
places is connected with the 'locks for love' project, which makes human 
hair wigs for children undergoing chemotherapy, and will do all the work of 
getting the cut-off hair to the project if it's more than maybe 8, maybe 
12, inches long.

So, optimum or not, I'm looking for a shorter cut that will still allow me 
to put it up but will get rid of the annoying part.  Any suggestions?


Kayta

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>  >but I really think longer hair is easier to take care of and
>  >wear than the shorter hair.  Except for taking longer to dry, that is.
>  
>  I disagree, and am looking for a shorter style for my own hair.  Shorter 
>  hair is easier to brush, and never gets as tangled - mine's so fine and 
>  wavy that it's like snarled straw if it doesn't have enough conditioner on 
> it.

My hair never dries if it's long and I live in a desert!  It's also heavy 
enough to give me headaches.  It just falls straight and limp and as I have a 
heart-shaped face with wide chipmunk cheeks, that makes my face look fat.  
When it's shorter (collarbone length) and layered, I can brush it, add a bit 
of super duper hold hairspray, and it's cute and fluffy.  A hairdresser 
finally explained that I have a ton of hair, but it's still very fine, so it 
has no body when it's long, and it can hold water like a sponge.  I'll just 
have to use some hairpieces when I'm in period costume.  I like long hair, 
but it doesn't like me... 
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Kayta wrote,
>Reason three, I just found out tonight, is that one of the local 
>cheapie hair-cutting places is connected with the 'locks for love' 
>project, which makes human hair wigs for children undergoing 
>chemotherapy, and will do all the work of getting the cut-off hair 
>to the project if it's more than maybe 8, maybe 12, inches long.

      Just so you know, Locks of Love has wigs made for children with 
aopecia, not chemotherapy.  Most of the donated hair they receive is 
sold to raise money to make the wigs.  Just in case someone thinks 
their hair is going to be worn by a child - most likely not.  The 
charity has been researched by members of the TLHS discussion group. 
Some members find that they get frequent suggestions/harassment to 
cut their hair and donate it!  It's a fine enough charity for 
donation if someone is planning a haircut.

      Hmmmn, how to keep this costume related... the pressure some 
people get to cut their hair (or not cut their hair) sounds similar 
to unsolicited costume advice.  It's all about individual preference 
of one's own personal appearance and comfort!

      -Carol
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Thompson-Herbert" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair


>
>
> My hair's partially depigmented, and the silvery-white color is stunning.
> But not when it's only part of your hair.

Mine has also started going white. Not gray, but silvery white, like yours.
Unfortunately, it's doing in huge swathes--I have a real Lily Munster look
going on here. ( saw Bonnie Raitt on the Grammys last night--on her it's
amazing. On me it's just aging.)  My Grandma Read was totally white by the
time she was40, and I look eerily like her, so it's not a surprise.

But I do love my red hair dye!!

Dianne

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>the Hyde
> > Street Pier, which does 1901, I can wait till it grows out a little, as I
> > won't get to participate till May at the earliest, they way they have
> > things set up.
>
>Ahh yeah.. 1901 specifically right;)?

Narrowest period I ever had to do.  I figure I have from 1897, right after 
the big sleeves go away, to about 1902, just before things go angular, to 
play with.  But I happen to have lots of 1901 stuff, including somebody's 
compilation of every fashion illustration from like the Chicago Tribune 
from 1901, so I'm all set.

>But rats were of course used
>extensively and with careful pinning you should be able to fake it quite
>well... would you concider keeping the hair cut off and make little
>hairpieces out of it? Not sure how long it would wind up, but you could make
>a few falls or those little ponytail things. Excellent for making fake buns
>etc.

At the rate my hair is falling out, the rats will be no problem.  And as 
soon as I get the hair cut, I will start practicing with them.



Kayta

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I really envy those women who can put up their hair with a few pins or the "two chopsticks" someone mentioned.
 I grew mine long three times as a girl, once with a fringe (bangs) in the Beatles era and twice without; but it's so thick, smooth and heavy that it wouldn't stay up without being quite elaborately styled. Also, my hairline is so low that, without a fringe, it would hang over my face when I wore it down unless quite a lot of the front hair was confined in some way, and the standard hairslide or Alice band wasn't strong enough for the job. So, nice though it would be for reenactment, long hair really isn't an option for me.

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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I don't remember being explicitly taught how to sit, but I do remember that, sitting in a mini-skirt, you had to be conscious of it all the time and frequently tug the hem down in order to remain decent. It was quite a relief when they went out of fashion.

Kate Bunting
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Michaela wrote:

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> They was robbed! The costume and make up for TTT is just phenomenal and they should have been nominated for those at the Oscars. The detail in the costumes that is not seen is one thing, but the bloody armour... I am not really versed enough in armour to have been able to take decent notes, but I was just blown away by it.

But they did win an award for costumes at the BAFTAs last night (among others).


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: Is this really '60s? 

        I would say it probably is.  I had several very much like it in
the 60s.  They are wonderful floaty things that are fun to wear.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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 --- Penny Ladnier  wrote: > 
> So how many of you ladies out there had father's who ignored you and this is
> why you got into fashion?  

*cackles* How stupid! 'some' might perhaps, I certainly didn't. Mum & dad paid
attention to both my sister and me, but I was the black sheep, the rebel
without a cause (clue? :-) and went into Goth and costumes and wild make-up and
purple hair and all sorts and went to school like that of course.

No attention-seeking here, but definitely healthy rebelling against nicely
conservative German middle class, but what did I rebel against? My parents
never forced me to wear something else, always let me wear the totally
outrageous concoctions that I was wearing *LOL*

The rebellion petered out thus... I still believe if you don't try to force
your rebelling kids they eventually get tired of it, coz there is not much to
rebel against. They always encouraged my sewing and my mum made me wild shirts
while of course I had to amke teh outrageous clothes myself. My dad just rolled
his eyes and grinned when he thought I didn't look.

Nicole - hoping to help little Eli rebel a tiny bit one day, it's healthy, you know!

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: [h-cost] 18th.century petticoats
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Hi.
I have uploaded a picture for you. This is a charicature drawing, but i
think it is very correct anyway.
The old lady is wearing a linen petticoat under her stays and pocket hoops.
Her dress is lying on the chair, ready to go over the underwear.
I dont think she is using a quilted petticoat, it would be much two bulky to
use over pocket hoops.
Hope this is helpfull for you!

http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/oldcoquette.html



Bjarne




Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] original hair question, second try
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> Too short - if it's too short for Ardenwood, which does the 1880s, I can
> fake it under a sunbonnet (sweat, sweat).

And of course, early 1880s was not only simple, but also at the nape of hte
neck, so you don't have to worry about the shorter ends at the back of the
neck.

If it's too short for the Hyde
> Street Pier, which does 1901, I can wait till it grows out a little, as I
> won't get to participate till May at the earliest, they way they have
> things set up.

Ahh yeah.. 1901 specifically right;)? But rats were of course used
extensively and with careful pinning you should be able to fake it quite
well... would you concider keeping the hair cut off and make little
hairpieces out of it? Not sure how long it would wind up, but you could make
a few falls or those little ponytail things. Excellent for making fake buns
etc.

If I have the cutter mostly leave the front long, I can do
> Dickens' Faire no problem, by December.

I think there are some sites linked in old meassages of the sensibility
board of women with hair about the length you are looking at doing civil war
styles. You could always ask there is you wanted to:)

And there is a print in the Harpers Bazar reprints book by Stella Blum of a
girl with hair about to her shoulders all crimped and waved, with the ends
free, so it was something delt with in that period. That's from the late
1860s to very early 1870s... book is not handy or I could say the exact
year:)

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.
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 --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > So, I have an order to make a Capt. Morgan, as
in spiced rum, outfit. Looks 
> pretty straight forward, and I've talked him out of the cape [I think]. After

Bucket boots? For Captain Morgan? That isn't the right period for sloppy bucket
top boots as far as I emember my pirates. Which years was he active?

Nicole

=====
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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.
To: h-costume@indra.com
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I hate to say this, but they are totally inauthentic. It starts with the type
of leather, goes to the entire shape of the foot part of the boots and ends at
the heels. Sorry...
There is a shoemaker here in the UK who makes cheap n cheerful bucket tops for
the ECW community, if only I remembered the name... even though I wouldn't buy
them for authenti-wear coz of doing living history and they just aren't good
enough, they are still loads better than those ones above.But I WOULD buy the
ones from the chappy here just for mundane wear because they look so nice. ;-)
I will post the name/address when I remember/find it.

Nicole

 --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Y'know....these aren't bad. Not really sloppy
enough but the price is not too
> 
> high...and they're the right style [but for sloppiness....and the heel is a 
> bit low.] and color! Am I too picky or WHAT!
> 
>  Musketeer Boots 
> 
> 
> My problem is, I make lots of costumes but I'm never the one who has to get 
> the stuff together. Any advice is welcome.
>  

=====
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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] original hair question, second try
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>Back view of a straight-cut bob:
>http://www150.pair.com/aluna/images/bobdb/4/big/mhgall~1.jpg

Notice how her hair doesn't stay straight on the sides - that's what my 
hair does, with a few waves added in before it hits my shoulders.  I tried 
this kind of style when I was in high school, when I had lots of hair, just 
before I let it go Hippie-long.  The minute it got long enough to hit my 
shoulders, it folded up, down, and several other unplanned ways at the 
ends.  But your example does look long enough to put up.

And, fortunately, we're talking historical here.  Part of the time I get to 
put it all up and wear a nice historical hat, which I won't have to take 
off even if I am visiting indoors.  But this may be the incentive to make 
that maid costume I keep intending to make, as maids never take their caps off.

>I highly recommend going to a stylist who can cut wavy hair.  Stylists who
>deal with black hair have a better shot at giving you a cut that will actually
>hold the desired shape when _you_ have to try and style it.  They can usually
>also give you better styling tips than stylists who are used to straight hair.

Stylist - got any local recommendations?


Kayta

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From: AlbertCat@aol.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?
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In a message dated 2/23/2003 8:22:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
PallasAMK@aol.com writes:


> I also imagine that originally the quilting my have been for warmth--anyone?
> 

Most likely. I wonder if one wouldn't be caught dead wearing a quilted 
petticoat after Memorial day! ;-)

Of course some quilted petticoats are of such exceptional beauty and 
workmanship, the quilting itself is worth displaying, whether it's cold or 
not.

I'd say if you want fluffy flare at the hen of your gown, wear a petticoat 
with a ruffle. But most 18th century looks, especially with panniers, are not 
about fluffy fullness. Petticoats are not particularly full, especially in 
front. They're more of a base to apply decoration. These can be ruffles, but 
they are usually tortured into some kind of shape and not particularly full 
themselves.

For "Last of the Mohicans" we made under petticoats for the riding habits 
about 3 1/2 yards at the hem, which were quilted about a foot up. These over 
hip pads gave the top petticoats the right kind of movement. One of the 
petticoats {Alice's} was made of a printed white cotton in a blue diaper 
pattern [diamonds] with a flower in the center of each diamond. Wadding was 
put in the 12" hem facing and the hand quilting followed the printed 
diamonds. You never see it in the film. Oh well.....

--part1_1d1.3779cae.2b8ae0c5_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 2/23/2003 8:22:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, Pa=
llasAMK@aol.com writes:






I also imagine that originally=20=
the quilting my have been for warmth--anyone?






Most likely. I wonder if one wouldn't be caught dead wearing a quilted petti=
coat after Memorial day! ;-)



Of course some quilted petticoats are of such exceptional beauty and workman=
ship, the quilting itself is worth displaying, whether it's cold or not.



I'd say if you want fluffy flare at the hen of your gown, wear a petticoat w=
ith a ruffle. But most 18th century looks, especially with panniers, are not=
 about fluffy fullness. Petticoats are not particularly full, especially in=20=
front. They're more of a base to apply decoration. These can be ruffles, but=
 they are usually tortured into some kind of shape and not particularly full=
 themselves.



For "Last of the Mohicans" we made under petticoats for the riding habits ab=
out 3 1/2 yards at the hem, which were quilted about a foot up. These over h=
ip pads gave the top petticoats the right kind of movement. One of the petti=
coats {Alice's} was made of a printed white cotton in a blue diaper pattern=20=
[diamonds] with a flower in the center of each diamond. Wadding was put in t=
he 12" hem facing and the hand quilting followed the printed diamonds. You n=
ever see it in the film. Oh well.....

--part1_1d1.3779cae.2b8ae0c5_boundary--
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Here it is on the Harvey Miller site: 
http://www.brepols.net/catalogue/index.jsp?mpk=20295&art=159032

Cheers,
Danielle

At 08:10 AM 1/22/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>The title is _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: the transcript_. It's
>edited by David Starkey. It's published by Harvey Miller Publishers
>for The Society of Antiquaries of London. ISBN 1-872501-89-3. I hope
>that helps. ;)
>Kat
>
> > Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but I'd
> > need all the normal info (including title ). Thanks, Sue

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
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On Sunday 23 February 2003 09:43 pm, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/23/2003 8:22:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>
> PallasAMK@aol.com writes:
> > I also imagine that originally the quilting my have been for
> > warmth--anyone?
>
> Most likely. I wonder if one wouldn't be caught dead wearing a quilted
> petticoat after Memorial day! ;-)

More likely Whitsunday, since Memorial Day wasn't a holiday yet.  :-)


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:03:23 -0500
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coming in on this 24 hours late, this costume is about 1973.  I have the
pattern and made several of these garments for custumers  at this time. It
was the rage during the ethnic revival during the "Flower Children craze.
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts


> Robin wrote:
> > > Aw, come on. I've met you. No *way* are you a schlumpy klutz!
>
> Lisa replied:
> > Oh no, I really am.   I bang into things all the time mostly because
> > I'm focused on what's going on inside my head and not the outer world.
> >  Once and this is only an example,  I was taking my empty coffee cup
> > to the kitchen with my mind full of thoughts of the collapsing of time
> > and space and sycronicity and the next thing you know I've banged my
> > empty coffee cup into the wall.  The cup shattered into pieces and
> > fell to the floor and I was left with a handle in my hand.  When I go
> > places I have to make a special effort to concentrate on my
> > enviornment, not so I look graceful, but so I don't break anything!
>
> Lisa, you called me graceful. However, I too have my collection of
> "how did I get *that* one" bruises from the same sort of stuff. And
> although I have been trained to be graceful, it is hardly graceful to
> fall at someone's feet while trying to get away from them. ;)
>
> I think that many of us, no matter how graceful we *can* be, have our
> (frequent) klutz moments.
>
> Kat
> 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:25:27 2003
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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: 
References: <4.3.1.2.20030223212217.04ebf440@mail.frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] original hair question, second try
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I have really annoying hair that loves to get just slightly wavy and frizzy
enough to look TERRIBLE if left to its own devices.  I'm also REALLY a low
maintenance girl.  I recommend a below-shoulder-length cut with long layers.
That way, for mundane you can put it in a ponytail if you don't want to deal
with it or blow dry it and style it if you do.  It's long enough to put up
for any historic era -- just add some kind of hairpiece!

- Kendra

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:27:32 2003
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From: AlbertCat@aol.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.
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Y'know....these aren't bad. Not really sloppy enough but the price is not too 
high...and they're the right style [but for sloppiness....and the heel is a 
bit low.] and color! Am I too picky or WHAT!

 Musketeer Boots 


My problem is, I make lots of costumes but I'm never the one who has to get 
the stuff together. Any advice is welcome.

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Y'know....these aren't bad. Not really sloppy enough but the pric=
e is not too high...and they're the right style [but for sloppiness....and t=
he heel is a bit low.] and color! Am I too picky or WHAT!



 Musketeer Boots <=
BR>




My problem is, I make lots of costumes but I'm never the one who has to get=20=
the stuff together. Any advice is welcome.

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:27:33 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:34:05 -0500
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I own a pair of Bohemond boots. They are wonderful. The boots are
comfortable (after they stretch out (he includes directions on how to do
this). He gives a delivery date and is good about meeting it or letting
you know if there will be a delay.
My boots are now several years old and holding up well.


Wendy
(A satisfied customer, who has recommended the boots to others who have
gotten them and been equally satisfied.)
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:27:34 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?
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Greetings, all:

Generally lurk here because I learn so much just reading, but thought I'd 
chime in on this one.  I'd imagine it depends on what you are going to do 
while wearing the dress--if you're going to stroll and perch and generally 
look fetching, I wouldn't think that you'd need the quilting on the 
petticoat, but at least in my experience, I find it easier to dance in a 
heavier petticoat because it keeps the thing from getting tangled in your 
legs.  I also imagine that originally the quilting my have been for 
warmth--anyone?

Pallas

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Greetings, all:



Generally lurk here because I learn so much just reading, but thought I'd ch=
ime in on this one.  I'd imagine it depends on what you are going to do=
 while wearing the dress--if you're going to stroll and perch and generally=20=
look fetching, I wouldn't think that you'd need the quilting on the petticoa=
t, but at least in my experience, I find it easier to dance in a heavier pet=
ticoat because it keeps the thing from getting tangled in your legs.  I=
 also imagine that originally the quilting my have been for warmth--anyone?<=
BR>


Pallas

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What's the scoop on Bohemond boots? Anyone dealt with them? I must say, a 3/4 
inch heel [their max] isn't really high enough. But they say they make custom 
boot. I wonder if they'd do 1" or 1 1/2".

 Boots by Bohemond 

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What's the scoop on Bohemond boots? Anyone dealt with them? I mus=
t say, a 3/4 inch heel [their max] isn't really high enough. But they say th=
ey make custom boot. I wonder if they'd do 1" or 1 1/2".



 Boots by Bohemond=
 

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:27:35 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hair
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> I have to disagree with the hair stylist.  When I wear my hair down,
people
> think I am ten years younger and I get lots of flattering comments from
men.

Yeah, it all depends on your face shape and hair colour/texture etc. I don't
look too bad in a short wig:
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce/headshots.htm
But that's not my own hair;) My own hair doesn't have enough body to do
justice to a short hairstyle:)

> Sometimes when I go out... especially if it is getting close to time to
dye
> my hair, I will pull it out of the braid or ponytail tail.  Why? Because
the
> first place I loose the dye is around my temples and the hair in front of
my
> ears.  When I let my hair down, no body sees it and I can go another week
> without dying.

hehe, I usually just wear my hair out when I go out because it's striking
enough as it is;) I don't need to do anything funky to it in order to make
it presentable. There are some wonderful hair styles I'd like to do though.
One is from a late 1870's bust with plaits draped all over the head..

I do have a piccie of the funky hair I did for my role as Margaret in Much
Ado... she was a case of mutton dressed as lamb so I decided to use hair
pieces and be quite garish;) but then as the season neared the end, I
decided to go for a simpler style, as I felt the character was more naive
than people were assuming.


michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:48:49 -0600
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I don't know whether it's *necessary*, but I'm making one for a robe a 
la francaise I'm currently working on.  I recently finished dyeing the 
material (silk satin, backed in linen), and am now marking the quilting 
pattern (in stages - my eyes keep crossing).

Karen

Kendra Van Cleave wrote:

>
>(I'm using the JP Ryan robe a la francaise pattern, and she recommends
>wearing a quilted petticoat underneath the dress petticoat -- opinions on
>whether that's necessary?)
>


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Robin... LOL!!! You are such a wealth of information!

Penny Ladnier
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:43:00 -0600
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I prefer my long hair, also.

I wish I could do more with it.  I'm hopeless at french braiding it, and 
if I put it up in a bun (assuming it will stay there, which it often 
won't) it so drastically changes the weight distribution of my head that 
my neck ends up sore after a few hours.  Plus, I think I look much older 
with it up (more like my real age ;-)

I'll probably look at the long hair site, though.

Karen

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Kayta, I'd suggest either a straight or an a-line bob about shoulder
length.  Any longer, and you'll have a hard time keeping it styled.  The
secret of a bob is learning to style it.  When I had mine done this way,
I had a really good stylist and I had to keep it trimmed regularly.  Styling
in my case usually meant either using a very large barrel curling iron to
straighten my hair and give it that tiny bit of curl under or if it had been
just cut, I could put aloe gel on my hair and carefully pat the ends until
they curled under.  If it got too long, the natural wave kicked in and the
ends of the hair would go all over instead of curling under.

Example of a side-parted bob, no fringe:
http://www150.pair.com/aluna/images/bobdb/4/big/afterf~2.jpg
This one looks like it was slightly wedged in the back, which you don't
want if you're going to put your hair up.  A slight a-line will give the
hair some shape without messing with your ability to put it up.

Found a side view of the same woman, definitely wedged.  You don't want 
the back hair like this.  This is very similar to the haircut I had for 
a couple years.
http://www150.pair.com/aluna/images/bobdb/4/big/afters~1.jpg

Back view of a straight-cut bob:
http://www150.pair.com/aluna/images/bobdb/4/big/mhgall~1.jpg

Straight cut bob, center part:
http://www150.pair.com/aluna/images/bobdb/1/big/shelly~2.jpg
I've seen this style on ladies with steel grey hair and it still looks good.

Straight cut, side part, a little shorter than what you want:
http://www150.pair.com/aluna/images/bobdb/16/big/mib001.jpg

I highly recommend going to a stylist who can cut wavy hair.  Stylists who
deal with black hair have a better shot at giving you a cut that will actually
hold the desired shape when _you_ have to try and style it.  They can usually
also give you better styling tips than stylists who are used to straight hair.

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] original hair question, second try
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>>2.)  Shoulder length all around, usually parted on the side, and who 
>>cares if the sides are different lengths during the occasional 1850s 
>>center parting.  (Is this too boring?)
>
>      I thought hair was cut blunt generally with a center part, then if 
> you part it on the side you'll get a bit of a layering effect.
>
>      If you want it a bit longer in the front, maybe have them comb it 
> all straight back (no part) and cut straight across the back?  I think it 
> would be best getting gradually longer as you get to the front (maybe an 
> inch longer than the back) rather than having two long pieces up front 
> that are disproportionate.  But you could try that, and if you don't like 
> it have it recut even with the shoulder length.  The hard part is having 
> to wait to grow it out if it's too short.

Good suggestion about combing back and then cutting, and about 
center-parting for cutting then side-parting for layering.  I, of course, 
hadn't thought of either possibility.  Hair is the part of costuming, and 
everyday life for that matter, that I know the least about.

Too short - if it's too short for Ardenwood, which does the 1880s, I can 
fake it under a sunbonnet (sweat, sweat).  If it's too short for the Hyde 
Street Pier, which does 1901, I can wait till it grows out a little, as I 
won't get to participate till May at the earliest, they way they have 
things set up.  If I have the cutter mostly leave the front long, I can do 
Dickens' Faire no problem, by December.


Kayta

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From: "chiara" 
To: "h-costume" 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:43:16 -0600
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Actually, all you have to do is cut off the tops of some ropers where they
are sewn to the foot part and use that as your pattern for the tops of the
bucket tops. :)

Make them as sloppy as you want then take the whole thing to a shoe
maker/repair place and have them stitch it back on. Might think about
putting in some loops so that he can garter them up to his waist.

Old pair of ropers from goodwill should do it, around 15.00 or so depending
on what part of the country you are in.

If you need more instructions than that I can look up an old url where it is
at or you can do a search on Goggle, just take the filters off and just
click carefully. :)

Sincerely,
Chiara
Ansteorra, Steppes
Not all ermine spots are created equally

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:14 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.


> So, I have an order to make a Capt. Morgan, as in spiced rum, outfit.
Looks
> pretty straight forward, and I've talked him out of the cape [I think].
After
> all, he's wearing it in Hawaii.
>
> Anyway, who makes a good pair of sloppy bucket top boots? I'd have to have
> them made, right? No one just carries them in stock, do they?
>
> While I'm askin' .....where can I get like 20 yards of wide gold braid.
It's
> on the edge of everything....even the damn boots! [actually I have a bolt
of
> great gold braid, but I'd rather save it for something of MINE]
>
> On the rum label, the good Captain's justicorps is buttoned up. But I'm
> thinking of talking the guy into a waistcoat. That way he could shed the
coat
> after he makes an entrance and still look smart.
>
> Hmmmm....maybe I will make the cape....
>
> He says money is no object .....we'll see....
>

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AlbertCat@aol.com wrote:

>
> Anyway, who makes a good pair of sloppy bucket top boots? I'd have to 
> have them made, right? No one just carries them in stock, do they?

Well . . . they'd be a little taller than you might be looking for, but 
have you tried www.jaminleather.com?  They have thigh-high leather boots 
(so roll the top down to just above the knee) for both men and women for 
$70.  They go up to men's size 13 - is that big enough?

>
> While I'm askin' .....where can I get like 20 yards of wide gold 
> braid. It's on the edge of everything....even the damn boots! 
> [actually I have a bolt of great gold braid, but I'd rather save it 
> for something of MINE]
>
How wide is wide?  How fancy?  I think I saw some 1" wide braid on 
www.cheeptrims.com.

Karen

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AlbertCat@aol.com wrote:




 Anyway, who makes a good pair of sloppy bucket top boots? I'd have to have
them made, right? No one just carries them in stock, do they?

  

Well . . . they'd be a little taller than you might be looking for, but have
you tried www.jaminleather.com?  They have thigh-high leather boots (so roll
the top down to just above the knee) for both men and women for $70.  They
go up to men's size 13 - is that big enough?

  


 While I'm askin' .....where can I get like 20 yards of wide gold braid.
It's on the edge of everything....even the damn boots! [actually I have a
bolt of great gold braid, but I'd rather save it for something of MINE]

    

    

How wide is wide?  How fancy?  I think I saw some 1" wide braid on www.cheeptrims.com.

    

Karen

    
    

--------------020205030001030907030609--

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Kayta wrote:

<>

 At least not to their faces. 


<         It is really nice to live at a time when you
don't have to 
wear
>certain styles of clothing, shoes and hair just
because you have 
passed
>50.

I'm looking around, again, for a style that looks
current enough that I 
don't look like a fossilized Hippie, but still long
enough to put up 
into 
something late Victorian-Edwardian.  At my age I am
figuring that an 
1890s 
French-roll-like style would do me all the way to the
early 1900s.  For 
1880s, I can do a modified 1860s thing, because if
this were the 1880s 
then 
I would have been in my 30s in the 1860s.  And in the
1850s-60s, I can 
put 
it up under a cap, so who cares what length it really
is in back.

Any suggestions on a relatively current style that
will be long enough, 
in 
back, to do up Edwardian, where I can't hide it under
a cap?>>

I've got the back of mine at just past where my neck
joins my shoulders (maybe 1" longer). My hairdresser
showed me how to put it up into an Edwardian style:
You take little sections of the back, comb each up
individually, give it a little twist, and stick a
hairpin in, anchoring the section at the top of your
head. Once it's all up there, you can arrange the 
bits on top to look nice or plop a hair piece on top
of that. How you style the front is up to the look you
want, and how your hair is cut--mine is short in
front, and with lots of curls, so I just wear it "a la
Alexandra." 

Dawn


 



=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From: kat@grendal.rain.com
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Robin wrote: 
> > Aw, come on. I've met you. No *way* are you a schlumpy klutz!

Lisa replied:
> Oh no, I really am.   I bang into things all the time mostly because
> I'm focused on what's going on inside my head and not the outer world.
>  Once and this is only an example,  I was taking my empty coffee cup
> to the kitchen with my mind full of thoughts of the collapsing of time
> and space and sycronicity and the next thing you know I've banged my
> empty coffee cup into the wall.  The cup shattered into pieces and
> fell to the floor and I was left with a handle in my hand.  When I go
> places I have to make a special effort to concentrate on my
> enviornment, not so I look graceful, but so I don't break anything!

Lisa, you called me graceful. However, I too have my collection of 
"how did I get *that* one" bruises from the same sort of stuff. And 
although I have been trained to be graceful, it is hardly graceful to 
fall at someone's feet while trying to get away from them. ;)

I think that many of us, no matter how graceful we *can* be, have our 
(frequent) klutz moments.

Kat



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Congrats and best wishes to all of you! Elizabeth is a great name, too!

--sue (whose middle name is Beth)

N Kipar wrote:
> 
> Wheehee!!! Would you believe it? Two months too early, and with daddy here in
> England after a Viking re-enactment in the pub in York sitting and drinking
> with us and not having a clue (!!!) little Elizabeth Anne was born by Caesarian
> in Aachen at 11 minutes after midnight last night on 23rd February, and thus a
> Pisces as well ;-)
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
References: <000801c2db86$d1af9180$befc8218@hopperflop2>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?
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Hi Kendra.
This all depends. Do you wear pocket paniers? or a real panier?
Normally i would say, if you wear pocket paniers or a real panier, then you
dont have to wear any petticoat under the underskirt of the robe a la
francaise.
But if you want to be real dressed, you should wear a little petticoat under
the pocket paniers or paniers. This could be of plain linen or cotton.
If your fabric silk is very thin, it would be best to have made a petticoat
over the paniers to hide the bones.
Sorry about this, there are so many different ways to do it.
If the pattern you make your dress after dont have any paniers at all, then
i would make a quiltet petticoat so that your skirt is spread out
more................

Please ask again, if i didnt answer your questions like you would
know.............
Bjarne


My waistcoat is finished!!!!! except for the buttonholes and
buttons.................. :-)
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 10:59 PM
Subject: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?


> For any of you who work on the 18th century (Bjarne?), what sorts of under
> petticoats do you normally wear under a robe a la francaise w/ pocket
hoops?
> I'm thinking about one plain (cotton) petticoat underneath the dress
> petticoat, but I'm wondering whether I need more than this.
>
> (I'm using the JP Ryan robe a la francaise pattern, and she recommends
> wearing a quilted petticoat underneath the dress petticoat -- opinions on
> whether that's necessary?)
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Kendra
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Penny Ladnier wrote:

> Going through the *change of life* or having a baby can make your hair
> fall out/ get thin because of hormones.  My hair thinned out after
> having each kid.  But after 6 months it started getting thicker again.

The mechanism behind the post-baby hair fallout is actually pretty
interesting. Normally, each hair goes through a life cycle of (on average)
seven years. But each follicle is on its own schedule. So every day a few
of your oldest hairs fall out (or come out in combing/brushing), and new
hairs start growing from the same follicles. When you're pregnant, the
hormone changes suspend the normal fallout/replacement cycle, and you
don't lose a lot of the hairs you would normally lose on a daily basis.

Then, after you give birth and your hormones return to normal (lactation
may delay this, I'm not sure), the hairs that should have fallen out
during pregnancy come out, sometimes all at once. Some women find
themselves with handfuls of dead hair from combing and think they're
losing their hair. But it's actually just resuming the normal cycle ...
only it will feel a lot thinner at first, because you have to let the new
hairs grow back in to get back to your usual volume. Thus the 6 months
Penny mentioned.

I don't know the mechanism for menopausal hair loss, but given that many
older women have thinning hair, it's probably different, not a
readjustment of the cycle as with pregnancy.

(The things you learn when you edit articles on pregnancy...)

--Robin

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From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Lalah T Tillinghast  wrote
>        I am 68 and my hair is working it's way back down my back.  Right
>now it is about bra length, but it grows way too fast.  I have gone from
>the Italian boy cut of the 50's to sit upon lengths and always seem to
>give up fooling with it short after a year or so and let it grow.  I am
>told I am too old for long hair, but frankly I don't much care.


>
>Lalah
>Never give up, Never surrender

My hair is currently waist-length, and is auburn.  I'm hoping 
desperately that when it loses its colour, it will go totally white the 
way red hair does, and I shall wear it up in elegant snowy chignons.

Jean
-- 
Jean Waddie
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Subject: Re: advice wanted (was Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:56:00 +0000
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I reckon mid-shoulder-blade length is about the easiest to put up, if 
it's not too thick.  So that when you catch it at the nape, the ends 
fold up to your crown.  If you need more bulk for the Edwardian styles 
than that gives you, you can always use pads.

I know absolutely nothing about your period, but think what the styles 
need around the face before deciding whether to have it all one length 
or layered, and whether to have a fringe (bangs).

Jean


Carolyn Kayta Barrows  wrote
>
>>but I really think longer hair is easier to take care of and
>>wear than the shorter hair.  Except for taking longer to dry, that is.
>
>I disagree, and am looking for a shorter style for my own hair. 
>Shorter hair is easier to brush, and never gets as tangled - mine's so 
>fine and wavy that it's like snarled straw if it doesn't have enough 
>conditioner on it.
>
>>         It is really nice to live at a time when you don't have to wear
>>certain styles of clothing, shoes and hair just because you have passed
>>50.
>
>I'm looking around, again, for a style that looks current enough that I 
>don't look like a fossilized Hippie, but still long enough to put up 
>into something late Victorian-Edwardian.  At my age I am figuring that 
>an 1890s French-roll-like style would do me all the way to the early 
>1900s. For 1880s, I can do a modified 1860s thing, because if this were 
>1880s then I would have been in my 30s in the 1860s.  And in the 
>1850s-60s, I can put it up under a cap, so who cares what length it 
>really is in back.
>
>Any suggestions on a relatively current style that will be long enough, 
>in back, to do up Edwardian, where I can't hide it under a cap?
>
>
>Kayta
>
>   //// \\\
>  ////-@@\\\
> ((((   7 )))
>  (((  <> ))))
>     )   ((((((
>/----\   /---\))
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
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-- 
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To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: advice wanted (was Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
References: <4.3.1.2.20030222132504.00cfc2c0@mail.frys.com>
 
 <4.3.1.2.20030222214418.00d08a40@mail.frys.com>
 
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In message , Carol Kocian 
 writes
>Kayta wrote,
>>Reason three, I just found out tonight, is that one of the local 
>>cheapie hair-cutting places is connected with the 'locks for love' 
>>project, which makes human hair wigs for children undergoing 
>>chemotherapy, and will do all the work of getting the cut-off hair to 
>>the project if it's more than maybe 8, maybe 12, inches long.
>
>     Just so you know, Locks of Love has wigs made for children with 
>aopecia, not chemotherapy.  Most of the donated hair they receive is 
>sold to raise money to make the wigs.  Just in case someone thinks 
>their hair is going to be worn by a child - most likely not.  The 
>charity has been researched by members of the TLHS discussion group. 
>Some members find that they get frequent suggestions/harassment to cut 
>their hair and donate it!  It's a fine enough charity for donation if 
>someone is planning a haircut.
>
>     Hmmmn, how to keep this costume related... the pressure some 
>people get to cut their hair (or not cut their hair) sounds similar to 
>unsolicited costume advice.  It's all about individual preference of 
>one's own personal appearance and comfort!
>
>     -Carol

My mother seems to have decided I am too old to have long hair (at 34!). 
I really like her hairdresser, who I used to go to before I left home, 
so I got her to book me an appointment for a trim when we were down 
there at Christmas.  I came back and my mother says "Oh, I thought you 
were having it cut short.  Not even a fringe?"  Whatever gave her that 
idea? - and from someone who was dead set against me having a fringe 
until I was about 15.  Grrrrr.

Sorry.  I *seriously* fell out with my mother this Christmas.

Jean

-- 
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
To: 
References: <20030223220345.66123.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definitely OT: My Godchild's here! Already!!!
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Congrats to the family, fingers crossed that the little Princess stays happy
and healthy.

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: "H-Costume" 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 5:03 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Definitely OT: My Godchild's here! Already!!!


> Wheehee!!! Would you believe it? Two months too early, and with daddy here
in
> England after a Viking re-enactment in the pub in York sitting and
drinking
> with us and not having a clue (!!!) little Elizabeth Anne was born by
Caesarian
> in Aachen at 11 minutes after midnight last night on 23rd February, and
thus a
> Pisces as well ;-)
> We got daddy back to the airport and off to see his tiny daughter in the
> incubator, oh I am so excited and when she's out of intensive care we'll
go
> visit! I better hurry to get all the fabrics now and make the baby blanket
and
> the christening bonnet!!! We didn't expect her that early of course!
>
> She's breathing on her own but has a few troubles and needs oxygen, but
> otherwise a very healthy little premature one, will have to stay in
hospital
> for 4-6 weeks though of course, I'll keep sending the small bundle over in
> Germany all my very best thoughts and wishes that everything will be okay
with
> lovely Eli. She'll be loved, very much so, and indundated with costumes
:-)
> Lots and lots in the dress-up box from the mad auntie!
>
> Oh-oh I have to hurry with the soft-toy too!
>
> Nicole - happy and hoping but thinks everything will be fine, and planning
on a
> royal banner baby blanket coz of her name: Elizabeth I and Queen Anne, now
if
> that isn't a royal... (...pain? hehehe) I don't know!
>
> =====
> "Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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So, I have an order to make a Capt. Morgan, as in spiced rum, outfit. Looks 
pretty straight forward, and I've talked him out of the cape [I think]. After 
all, he's wearing it in Hawaii.

Anyway, who makes a good pair of sloppy bucket top boots? I'd have to have 
them made, right? No one just carries them in stock, do they?

While I'm askin' .....where can I get like 20 yards of wide gold braid. It's 
on the edge of everything....even the damn boots! [actually I have a bolt of 
great gold braid, but I'd rather save it for something of MINE]

On the rum label, the good Captain's justicorps is buttoned up. But I'm 
thinking of talking the guy into a waistcoat. That way he could shed the coat 
after he makes an entrance and still look smart.

Hmmmm....maybe I will make the cape....

He says money is no object .....we'll see....

--part1_1c9.58f3f3c.2b8aa1c6_boundary
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So, I have an order to make a Capt. Morgan, as in spiced rum, out=
fit. Looks pretty straight forward, and I've talked him out of the cape [I t=
hink]. After all, he's wearing it in Hawaii.



Anyway, who makes a good pair of sloppy bucket top boots? I'd have to have t=
hem made, right? No one just carries them in stock, do they?



While I'm askin' .....where can I get like 20 yards of wide gold braid. It's=
 on the edge of everything....even the damn boots! [actually I have a bolt o=
f great gold braid, but I'd rather save it for something of MINE]



On the rum label, the good Captain's justicorps is buttoned up. But I'm thin=
king of talking the guy into a waistcoat. That way he could shed the coat af=
ter he makes an entrance and still look smart.



Hmmmm....maybe I will make the cape....



He says money is no object .....we'll see....

--part1_1c9.58f3f3c.2b8aa1c6_boundary--
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In a message dated 2/23/2003 4:48:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
gailscott@eos.net writes:


> Also, it said that the initial lacing can take up to
> 30 minutes, which I can't imagine anyone believing for a moment, except
> (apparently) at least one writer and one editor! 

Well, with some of the butterfingered production assistants I've seen, it can 
take LONGER than 30 minutes.

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In a message dated 2/23/2003 4:48:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ga=
ilscott@eos.net writes:






Also, it said that the initial=20=
lacing can take up to

30 minutes, which I can't imagine anyone believing for a moment, except

(apparently) at least one writer and one editor! 




Well, with some of the butterfingered production assistants I've seen, it ca=
n take LONGER than 30 minutes.

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Wheehee!!! Would you believe it? Two months too early, and with daddy here in
England after a Viking re-enactment in the pub in York sitting and drinking
with us and not having a clue (!!!) little Elizabeth Anne was born by Caesarian
in Aachen at 11 minutes after midnight last night on 23rd February, and thus a
Pisces as well ;-)
We got daddy back to the airport and off to see his tiny daughter in the
incubator, oh I am so excited and when she's out of intensive care we'll go
visit! I better hurry to get all the fabrics now and make the baby blanket and
the christening bonnet!!! We didn't expect her that early of course!

She's breathing on her own but has a few troubles and needs oxygen, but
otherwise a very healthy little premature one, will have to stay in hospital
for 4-6 weeks though of course, I'll keep sending the small bundle over in
Germany all my very best thoughts and wishes that everything will be okay with
lovely Eli. She'll be loved, very much so, and indundated with costumes :-)
Lots and lots in the dress-up box from the mad auntie!

Oh-oh I have to hurry with the soft-toy too!

Nicole - happy and hoping but thinks everything will be fine, and planning on a
royal banner baby blanket coz of her name: Elizabeth I and Queen Anne, now if
that isn't a royal... (...pain? hehehe) I don't know!

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Subject: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:59:20 -0800
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For any of you who work on the 18th century (Bjarne?), what sorts of under
petticoats do you normally wear under a robe a la francaise w/ pocket hoops?
I'm thinking about one plain (cotton) petticoat underneath the dress
petticoat, but I'm wondering whether I need more than this.

(I'm using the JP Ryan robe a la francaise pattern, and she recommends
wearing a quilted petticoat underneath the dress petticoat -- opinions on
whether that's necessary?)

Thanks!

- Kendra

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and I often see people who tightlace saying they lace up, then tighten 
up after wearing their
corset for thirty minutes.  This could be a misquote of that idea.

.heather.

On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 02:01 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 2/23/2003 4:48:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> gailscott@eos.net writes:
>
>
> Also, it said that the initial lacing can take up to
> 30 minutes, which I can't imagine anyone believing for a moment, except
> (apparently) at least one writer and one editor!
>
>
>
> Well, with some of the butterfingered production assistants I've seen, 
> it can take LONGER than 30 minutes.
>

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and I often see people who tightlace saying they lace up, then tighten
up after wearing their

corset for thirty minutes.  This could be a misquote of that idea.


.heather.


On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 02:01 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote:


ArialIn a message dated 2/23/2003
4:48:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes:



Also, it said that the initial lacing can take up to

30 minutes, which I can't imagine anyone believing for a moment, except

(apparently) at least one writer and one editor!




0000,0000,0000Well, with some of the
butterfingered production assistants I've seen, it can take LONGER
than 30 minutes.



--Apple-Mail-37--988279053--

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>2.)  Shoulder length all around, usually parted on the side, and who 
>cares if the sides are different lengths during the occasional 1850s 
>center parting.  (Is this too boring?)

      I thought hair was cut blunt generally with a center part, then 
if you part it on the side you'll get a bit of a layering effect.

      If you want it a bit longer in the front, maybe have them comb 
it all straight back (no part) and cut straight across the back?  I 
think it would be best getting gradually longer as you get to the 
front (maybe an inch longer than the back) rather than having two 
long pieces up front that are disproportionate.  But you could try 
that, and if you don't like it have it recut even with the shoulder 
length.  The hard part is having to wait to grow it out if it's too 
short.

      -Carol
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The original question was about style suggestions for my immanent haircut.

Length - long enough to put up for 1880s-1900s, but not so short I have to 
wear a wig (shoulder length?).

Bangs/fringe - no, because it needs to be long enough in front to do 
1850s-1860s without styling goop.

Stylishness factor - stylish enough that I don't look like a fossilized 
Hippie, (for job interviews) but not so trendy that I look like I'm trying 
to be 20 years old again.

Care factor - low maintenance, such that I don't need to set it, blow-dry 
it, put goop on it, etc. to keep it looking good.

My thoughts so far:

1.)  Shoulder length all around, such that the hair right over the back of 
my neck is about 4 inches long, with one braid in front on each side of a 
center part, the ends of which also reach my shoulders, to give some extra 
length in front if I need it for 1840s or Renaissance.  (Is this too weird?)

2.)  Shoulder length all around, usually parted on the side, and who cares 
if the sides are different lengths during the occasional 1850s center 
parting.  (Is this too boring?)

3.)  Shave it all off, and become a nun.

Kayta

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I hadn't thought of ILL....I've been hitting up my favorite librarians
pretty hard lately....we've been able to get, for instance, *most* of
the volumes of _Textilsymposium Neumunster_, for instance....I've got a
photocopy of vol. 5 sitting right here, and there are articles on things
like "Textiles and fibres from the late bronze age hoard from St.
Andrews, Fif, Scotland," or "Analysis and reconstruction of two
tabletwoven bands from the celtic burial hochdorf," "reconstruction of a
viking magnate dress," "medieval textiles from Waterford City" and some
articles on warp-weighted and early treadle looms.  And that's just some
of the stuff in English...at least half of the articles are in German
(oh, Nicoooole.....)
God bless librarians...especially the ones who are textile/costume
fiends like me! ;-P
--sue

Wanda Pease wrote:
> 
> Sue,
> 
>         I ILL'd my copy of the Inventories and copied what I was interested in.
> I'm a book addict, but $250 is more than I can excuse :-).  I think my copy
> came from Minnesota.
> 
> Regina Romsey
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> > Behalf Of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 6:46 PM
> > To: h-costume@indra.com
> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers.
> >
> >
> > Here it is on the Harvey Miller site:
> > http://www.brepols.net/catalogue/index.jsp?mpk=20295&art=159032
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Danielle
> >
> > At 08:10 AM 1/22/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> > >The title is _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: the transcript_. It's
> > >edited by David Starkey. It's published by Harvey Miller Publishers
> > >for The Society of Antiquaries of London. ISBN 1-872501-89-3. I hope
> > >that helps. ;)
> > >Kat
> > >
> > > > Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but I'd
> > > > need all the normal info (including title ). Thanks, Sue
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:37:35 -0800
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Sue,

	I ILL'd my copy of the Inventories and copied what I was interested in.
I'm a book addict, but $250 is more than I can excuse :-).  I think my copy
came from Minnesota.

Regina Romsey

> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 6:46 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers.
>
>
> Here it is on the Harvey Miller site:
> http://www.brepols.net/catalogue/index.jsp?mpk=20295&art=159032
>
> Cheers,
> Danielle
>
> At 08:10 AM 1/22/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >The title is _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: the transcript_. It's
> >edited by David Starkey. It's published by Harvey Miller Publishers
> >for The Society of Antiquaries of London. ISBN 1-872501-89-3. I hope
> >that helps. ;)
> >Kat
> >
> > > Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but I'd
> > > need all the normal info (including title ). Thanks, Sue
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>


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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:22:03 -0700
Status: RO

*drooool!*
It's 232 euro, though....what's that in US dollars, these days? About
300?
--sue

Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote:
> 
> Here it is on the Harvey Miller site:
> http://www.brepols.net/catalogue/index.jsp?mpk=20295&art=159032
> 
> Cheers,
> Danielle
> 
> At 08:10 AM 1/22/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >The title is _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: the transcript_. It's
> >edited by David Starkey. It's published by Harvey Miller Publishers
> >for The Society of Antiquaries of London. ISBN 1-872501-89-3. I hope
> >that helps. ;)
> >Kat
> >
> > > Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but I'd
> > > need all the normal info (including title ). Thanks, Sue
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60's sociable?
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:17:39 -0600 (CST)
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Stevie Gamble wrote:

> For those of you with a shy retiring nature...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14074&item=2811607763

Now *that* would be easy to make. I could pull a dozen floaty silks with
prints of a similar nature off the rack at the shop I work at, and it's
just a circle with hand and neck opening, and a little braid, over a slip.
I'm guessing there must be a zip or hooks at the back neck; the braid
doesn't look like it opens in front.

My question is: Is this really '60s? I would think early 70s, as the maxi
returned (and also ethnic and African styles became popular), but the
prints of the '60s remained.

--Robin


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I didn't see this so I thought I'd post that "Newsweek" ran a one-page
article on the comeback of corsets this week. Less snide than usual for
their "cultural" pieces, which all seem to require a snide tone, it
mentioned that the best reason for wearing a corset is that you can look
good and eat donuts. The article was talking about corsets as fashion
garments, not as undergarments, and mentioned that they can cost hundreds of
dollars. So all of you who aren't in the corset making business already
should advertise now! Also, it said that the initial lacing can take up to
30 minutes, which I can't imagine anyone believing for a moment, except
(apparently) at least one writer and one editor! But it's fun.

Gail Finke

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Hi all,

For those of you with a shy retiring nature...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14074&item=2811
607763


best wishes
Stevie


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Jean Waddie  wrote:
>My hair is currently waist-length, and is auburn.  I'm hoping 
>desperately that when it loses its colour, it will go totally white the 
>way red hair does, and I shall wear it up in elegant snowy chignons.

My hair's partially depigmented, and the silvery-white color is stunning.
But not when it's only part of your hair.  Especially since the depigmented
bits are right around my temples.  Not at all becoming on me at age 34.  It
looked pretty cool when I was 13, now it just looks dreadful.  I think I'm
doomed to dyeing mine auburn until it all goes white.

Or maybe I'll just keep dyeing it.  My grandmother did until her death 
at age 91, and it looked quite elegant on her.  

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Lloyd Mitchell wrote:

> coming in on this 24 hours late, this costume is about 1973.  I have the
> pattern and made several of these garments for custumers  at this time. It
> was the rage during the ethnic revival during the "Flower Children craze.
> Kathleen

Which costume? Perhaps the ebay one we were discussing? You attached your
reply on an unrelated message, so I can't be sure.

--Robin

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From: Lavolta Press 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Hair
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:22:21 -0800
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I think I missed the original message but--apologies to any hairdressers on 
h-costume, but I have yet to find a hairdresser that didn't resist attempts 
of mine to grow my hair. (A) a lot of times long hair is not trendy and 
(B), as far as I can tell, long hair means fewer visits to the hairdresser, 
since most these days only cut, they don't put up hair.

I had one for years who was continually critical of attempts to grow my 
hair. She'd always promise she'd only cut off a tiny bit to even it off, 
then it would be several inches. No matter how seldom I went, I kept 
winding up with hair that was shorter than after the previous visit.  Then 
when I commented on this, she'd tell me there was something wrong with _me_ 
I just didn't have the type of hair that would grow long, I had damaged 
hair, I'd look terrible with it long, etc.

I finally quit getting my hair cut (for the time being) nd guess what--it's 
growing long.

As for Steve's comment on society telling women what to wear, more than 
men--he's right.  But this attitude is still active in the reenactment 
community, mostly as women criticizing women. The same ones who in 
mainstream life would be criticizing others as too fat, too old, badly 
dressed, etc. just shift it to complaining that others aren't accurate 
enough, they're not dressed correctly for their age, etc.

Fran


At 02:08 PM 2/24/2003 +1300, you wrote:
> > I have to disagree with the hair stylist.  When I wear my hair down,
>people
> > think I am ten years younger and I get lots of flattering comments from
>men.
>
>

Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming
http://www.lavoltapress.com
Historic and Vintage Dance
http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance 


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Margo wrote:
>I usually blow it mostly dry and then roll it on Velco rollers,

Aigh!  I don't dare let those things near my hair.  Even sponge rollers
tend to tangle up in my hair.  I have to use either smooth plastic (magnetic)
rollers or rag rollers.  If you have very thick hair, the only thing that
will get hair on rollers dry in a reasonable amount of time is a bonnet 
dryer.  I still have mine, from when my hair was down to my tailbone.

My hair's now not-quite-brastrap length.  When it gets just a little longer,
I'll most likely start putting it up in a coronet braid again.  That gave 
enough volume around my face to keep my from looking awful, without it 
getting into everything.  These days, my hair is a great deal thinner than
when I had my hip-length hair thanks to chemo drugs. I wore it in a 20s style
a-line bob for about 3 years, but that required getting it cut every 4-5 weeks.
I'm at least out of the in-between length and can put my hair up again.  

Lately, I've been wearing my forelock hair pulled into two spiral braids
around my face.  The rest is often just put up in a bun with fancy hairsticks.
Even when I had my hair short, the front pieces (everything in front of my
ears) were long enough to be obnoxious when I did performances.  I'm a flute
player, and any hair that _can_ get in my mouth usually will.  Most likely
while I'm doing a solo passage.  The twin braids in front or a coronet braid
gets around that problem without making it look like my hair is scraped back
from my face.  At the moment, nothing is going to look _great_ thanks to the
50 pounds of predisone-induced weight gain.  And I have "moon face" from the
stuff, as well.  

Braiding is one of those skills that once you learn it, a whole constellation
of styles become possible.  And it usually takes the same amount of time or
much less time than one of the shorter styles.  As my hair grows, I'm starting
to see the long s-shaped waves appear again.  When it was short, it was just
frizzy.  So the ideal hair length is going to depend on your hair texture, 
thickness and ameniability to styling.  Unless I want 80s-style big hair, 
long and unlayered is best for me.

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:37:16 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] What women "should" wear
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Hi all,

It's clear that there are still so many pressures on women to wear
what they "should" or "shouldn't". Whether it's garments or their
hair, there are oodles of people who still think that  women need to
be controlled.
It's interesting that whilst there are lots of men buying and wearing
real fur (take a look at Ebay, for example) no-one in the anti-fur
lobby ever seems to mention it; it's always assumed to be wicked
vanity which only women, naturally,  suffer from. The whole thing
about synthetic fur being 'animal friendly' is ludicrous; it's a
product of the petrochemical industry which slaughters millions upon
millions of of animals of all descriptions every year. 10 minutes on
the Greenpeace website looking at the victims of yet another oil slick
would turn most stomachs. And yet the wicked vanity of women wearing
natural fur continues to be pilloried at every turn.
We read books extolling the freedom of modern women from corsets, and
then discover that we need to spend 8 hours working out in the gymn
each week to achieve the kind of look that women "should" have.
Muscles instead of corsets...
Here's to h-cost, where at least we pursue the knowledge to notice
that it's the same old story...

best wishes
Stevie

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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Lalah,

You go Girl!  Your hair is my inspiration.  I don't think I will ever have
short hair again.

In Victorian-1920s days having a lovely head of long hair was a true beauty
at any age!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:38:33 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Annora,

I had the same problem when my hair was long enough to sit on.  I had the
worse headaches from it jerking my neck... especially when driving.  I
finally decided that I didn't like that length and cut it waist length.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "annora" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair


> > YMMV, but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till it's long
enough
> > to sit on.
>
> This gave me a quick chuckle because it was my goal too.  I said
> I'd let my hair grow until it was long enough to sit on and when it did
> get long enough, it ended up being sat upon and jerking my head back when
> I moved.  But no, I'm not cutting my 3+ feet of hair either :>.
>
> --annora (new goal is halfway to my knees)



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Regina,

Going through the *change of life* or having a baby can make your hair fall
out/ get thin because of hormones.  My hair thinned out after having each
kid.  But after 6 months it started getting thicker again.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Paypal accounts
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Lyn,

One thing a lot of people with business account do not know is if you
generally bring in $1,000 a month, the transaction fee % drops.  I have had
months that dropped below $1,000 and they still kept me at the low fee rate.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hair - was Re: A little rant
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:11:57 -0500
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Anyone interested in the Long Hair email list, it is a wonderful group of
people.  Carol recommended the group to me a long time ago.  I really enjoy
it and have learned alot.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Kocian" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:07 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Hair - was Re: A little rant


>
>       It's time to mention it again - The Long Hair site,
> http://www.tlhs.org/
>
>       At the bottom of the "info' page is instructions on how to join
> the e-mail list.  There are several h-costume members who are also on
> the tlhs list.
>
> Dianne wrote,
> >YMMV, but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till it's long
> >enough to sit on.
>
>       That's a popular attitude on the list!  Except for those who
> already can, and are looking forward to ankle length.  :-)
>
>       -Carol
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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>


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Status: RO

I have to disagree with the hair stylist.  When I wear my hair down, people
think I am ten years younger and I get lots of flattering comments from men.

Sometimes when I go out... especially if it is getting close to time to dye
my hair, I will pull it out of the braid or ponytail tail.  Why? Because the
first place I loose the dye is around my temples and the hair in front of my
ears.  When I let my hair down, no body sees it and I can go another week
without dying.

I have also cut my bangs like Cher's were in the 60s... long at the sides to
mid-ear length.  That helps cover the areas that the dye fades out quickly.

One benefit of having long hair that no one has mentioned... when around the
house and you are not wearing a bra... then you need to run out for a little
while to a store or such.  You can pull your hair forward and no one knows
that you aren't wearing a bra.  That is one of the main reasons I love
having long hair!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com

> < over a certain age should either cut their hair short
> or put it up.
> I have long hair, and often wear it down in a ponytail
> or braid.>>
>
> Now, before you start throwing rocks at me, remember,
> my comments are strictly my own opinions; you can darn
> well do whatever you want. 8-D
>
> Most hairdressers recommend that their older
> (chronologically) clients keep their hair "short and
> styled," rather than the long, untrimmed locks of
> their youth. I had a long discussion with my own
> hairdresser about this yesterday. Long unstyled hair,
> especially when it is worn down, can throw
> unflattering shadows on your face, and give you the
> appearance of being much older than you are. If you
> are wearing your hair "scraped back" into a ponytail,
> braid, or chignon all the time, you have to ask
> yourself, "Why?" Many times, it's to keep your hair
> out of your eyes and face. At that point, it's time to
> start considering cutting it off and getting it styled
> in such a way to keep it from driving you crazy.



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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
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The Beauty Queen wave... aka the Queen Elizabeth wave... raise your hand to
ear level and pretend you are screwing in a light bulb.  LOL!!!  Watch the
Queen wave!!!!

Actually I learned that in 12th grade when I was in the Jr. Miss pageant.
My sister has worked with the contestants for Miss America and they teach
the same way to wave.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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I recently cut my waist length hair.   For convenience, I usually wore it
in a bun or braid, or with the front parts brushed back and held with a
barrette. It wasn't flatering on my big body, I needed more volume around
my face.   

Now it's just below my shoulders, so it still looks long, but it has layers
that make it bounce and give it volume.  It takes a bit more time to care
for it, I usually blow it mostly dry and then roll it on Velco rollers,
which takes about 15  minutes.  If I can spend 75 hours beading a forepart,
I don't see that 15 minutes a day is so much!

It's made a huge difference in the way I feel about myself.  Since the
haircut I find myself taking more care with other parts of my appearance,
like wearing makeup more often.  (By the way, anyone who doesn't already
know, the Cover Girl "Outlast" lip color is a miracle of modern science, it
really does stay on all day!)

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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I have been wearing my hair long for almost 18 years.  I swore when I quit
working in those better dept. stores to never have to get up and curl my
hair everyday.  Plus I hate getting perms and hairspray.

I, too, wear mine in a braid or ponytail most of the time for safety
reasons.  It can catch on things easily, like doorknobs.  When cooking I
have the fear of it falling in a pot.  Once it caught on fire with a set of
candles on a table.

As for care, I wash mine once a week, dye it once a month, and brush it
twice a day.  It takes maybe 2 minutes to brush out.  When you go out there
are hundreds of hairstyles you can do with long hair.

My best piece of advice for growing it out, is to know how to brush your
hair properly.  Always start at the bottom, and thread out all knots...
never break or tug a knot out.  I think of it like untangling yarn or
embroidery floss.  Slide out one strand at a time and the knot will
disappear.

For those who remember the tragedy my little Katie had with her knee length
curly hair...  she decided to grow it back out.  It is shoulder blade length
now.  She doesn't want it longer than waist length.   The fun thing is that
she is doing her own hair now.  She has a different hairstyle everyday.  She
practices styles on her dolls and then does them on her own hair.  She also
loves to do other people's hair too.  Just sit near her and you get a free
hair-do.

To get this back on a historical note... I have two websites that might
interest you all.  The first is about Victorian women with long hair.  These
are not common photos... letting ones hair down for a photo was more like a
Glamour Shots.
http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Women/menu.htm
My other site is a listing of articles about historic hairstyles:
http://www.costumegallery.com/hairstyles.htm

Have fun!!!!!  Hair is my hobby!!!!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?
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Karen, you are far more dedicated than me (altho I am planning to embroider
my stomacher...)

Let us see pics when you're done!

- Kendra
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Heim" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?


> I don't know whether it's *necessary*, but I'm making one for a robe a
> la francaise I'm currently working on.  I recently finished dyeing the
> material (silk satin, backed in linen), and am now marking the quilting
> pattern (in stages - my eyes keep crossing).

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:52:34 -0800
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I always thought they had quilted ones to go OVER the hoops to hide the
lines.  I've *never* studied the era at all though, that was just an 
idea that
made sense to me.  Did they worry about the hoop marks at all?

.heather.

On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 07:43 PM, Kendra Van Cleave wrote:

> Karen, you are far more dedicated than me (altho I am planning to 
> embroider
> my stomacher...)
>
> Let us see pics when you're done!
>
> - Kendra
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karen Heim" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?
>
>
>> I don't know whether it's *necessary*, but I'm making one for a robe a
>> la francaise I'm currently working on.  I recently finished dyeing the
>> material (silk satin, backed in linen), and am now marking the 
>> quilting
>> pattern (in stages - my eyes keep crossing).
>
> _______________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:23:21 -0800
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Thanks for all the feedback on this question...

Bjarne, yes, I'll be wearing pocket hoops.  My dress fabric is going to be
made of synthetic changeable taffeta -- it's not particularly lightweight
(not as light as some silks -- I got to handle a remnant of silk taffeta
yesterday  in an antique store and it was sooo nice!).

Pallas, good points on walking vs. dancing -- I'll definitely be doing both
in this, but your comment makes me think that a quilted petticoat might be
rather warm for dancing.  I have an 1840's crinoline (ie multiple layers of
petticoats) that feels like a mattress when it's warm -- I want to avoid
that feeling!

I think I'll go with one cotton under-petticoat and then see how that works
out.  Thanks for all the advice!

- Kendra

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:43:47 2003
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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:34:52 -0500
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On Sunday 23 February 2003 08:28 pm, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote:
> Y'know....these aren't bad. Not really sloppy enough but the price is not
> too high...and they're the right style [but for sloppiness....and the heel
> is a bit low.] and color! Am I too picky or WHAT!
>
>  Musketeer Boots

I see from the site that you can get them in black, instead of that brown.  As 
far as authenticity (and durability) goes, I would be more concerned about 
the fact that they're suede.


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] About those mini skirts...
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:08:34 -0700
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Yeah, but their legs aren't bad....
--sue

chiara wrote:
> 
> I don't think that's a girl...... ;)
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stevie Gamble" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 6:53 AM
> Subject: [h-cost] About those mini skirts...
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Even the most graceful of girls might have problems with this one...
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811476840&category
> > =314
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:45:44 2003
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Hi all,

Even the most graceful of girls might have problems with this one...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811476840&category
=314

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:48:58 2003
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I don't think that's a girl...... ;)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 6:53 AM
Subject: [h-cost] About those mini skirts...


> Hi all,
> 
> Even the most graceful of girls might have problems with this one...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811476840&category
> =314
> 
> best wishes
> Stevie
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 08:59:59 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:56:22 -0500
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Yes Robin, it was the E-bay garment.  I should not try to respond when I am
waking up.  Sorry, Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts


>
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
>
> > coming in on this 24 hours late, this costume is about 1973.  I have the
> > pattern and made several of these garments for custumers  at this time.
It
> > was the rage during the ethnic revival during the "Flower Children
craze.
> > Kathleen
>
> Which costume? Perhaps the ebay one we were discussing? You attached your
> reply on an unrelated message, so I can't be sure.
>
> --Robin
>
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60's sociable?
From: sylvia 
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:53:28 -0700
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on 2/23/03 10:12 AM, Stevie Gamble at stevie.gamble@btinternet.com wrote:

> Robin wrote:
> 
>>> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14074&item=2811
> 607763
> 
>>
> 
> It looks late 60's to me, but I'm on this side of the Atlantic. You
> must bear in mind that English styling was in advance of North America
> at the time; indeed  England was swinging sufficiently for a very bad
> record to be made about it by a US singer...
>
I agree.  I had at least one long dress from the late '60s.  The neckline is
very '60s, as well as the print.

Sylrog

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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 60's sociable?
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:12:10 -0000
Status: RO

Robin wrote:

> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14074&item=2811
607763

> My question is: Is this really '60s? I would think early 70s, as the
maxi
> returned (and also ethnic and African styles became popular), but
the
> prints of the '60s remained.

It looks late 60's to me, but I'm on this side of the Atlantic. You
must bear in mind that English styling was in advance of North America
at the time; indeed  England was swinging sufficiently for a very bad
record to be made about it by a US singer...

best wishes
Stevie



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 09:10:41 2003
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Subject: Fw: [h-cost] original hair question, second try
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:11:38 -0600
Status: RO

> 2.)  Shoulder length all around, usually parted on the side, and who cares
> if the sides are different lengths during the occasional 1850s center
> parting.  (Is this too boring?)


My stylist always recommends that hair be cut with a center part--no matter
what the style or length. That way, when you do want to style it with a part
on one side or the other, you aren't constrained by how it was cut. You
never get those odd bits hanging off the sides that are longer than the
rest.

Denise
landofoz@netins.net


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From: Robin Netherton 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:17:33 -0600 (CST)
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On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Lloyd Mitchell wrote:

> Yes Robin, it was the E-bay garment.  I should not try to respond when
> I am waking up.  Sorry, Kathleen

Thanks! Now I know I wasn't completely off to think of that dress as early
70s.

--Robin

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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
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Robin wrote:


> > Yes Robin, it was the E-bay garment.  I should not try to respond
when
> > I am waking up.  Sorry, Kathleen
>
> Thanks! Now I know I wasn't completely off to think of that dress as
early
> 70s.

No, you were OK for the US. The style didn't come from your side of
the Atlantic, and there's almost always a lag in catching up with
fashions set elsewhere...

best wishes
Stevie

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=0D
 =0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
Hey, I resemble those remarks in full! I cut my hair from waist length to
just past shoulder length for a totally different reason. Severe arthriti=
s
makes long hair difficult to manage, and my hair is long enough still tha=
t I
can do whatever I want to with it.=0D
=0D
When I started having the thinning problem (after having extremely thick
hair for years), I thought it was hormones too, but it turns out it wasn'=
t.
I won't take estrogen as after a while it starts making me morning sick.
Turns out I had a thyroid disorder. Now that my meds have been figured ou=
t,
my hair is coming back, and quite nicely too.=0D
=0D
Like you, almost done with the change--HUZZAH!! Worst part of it for me w=
as
the farble it seemed to reduce my brains to. I haven't felt this mentally
sharp in years.=0D
=0D
Arlys=0D
=0D
From: h-costume@indra.com=0D
Date: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:46:25 AM=0D
To: h-costume@indra.com=0D
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: long hair=0D
 =0D
I had waist length hair which had been growing for 25 years without=0D
anything but an occasional trim. Then, last spring it began to come out i=
n=0D
handfuls. I would carefully wash it and then comb it out. The comb would=0D
fill up two or three times before I was finished, and believe me I was be=
ing=0D
careful about tugging on it, or generally doing anything different than I=
=0D
had ever done. I was getting very thin (only in the hair, sadly) and what=
=0D
had been a respectable pony-tail became the thickness of a kindergarten=0D
crayola.=0D
I tried everything and nothing seemed to help. As you may notice from the=
=0D
crayola example I'm not exactly young. I had gone through the "change"=0D
(Halleluiah! The best thing to happen to my body since breasts) several=0D
years ago and had no problems. I finally went to the gynecologist and had=
=0D
my estrogen adjusted and that seemed to stop the problem. I stopped losin=
g=0D
hair, and began to grow some of it back, but it's never going to be as th=
ick=0D
as it was. I wonder if this isn't another reason why older women tend to=0D
cut their hair short.=0D
=0D
Regina=0D
=0D
> -----Original Message-----=0D
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On=0D
> Behalf Of annora=0D
> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 10:38 AM=0D
> To: h-costume@indra.com=0D
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair=0D
>=0D
>=0D
> > YMMV, but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till it's=0D
> long enough=0D
> > to sit on.=0D
>=0D
> This gave me a quick chuckle because it was my goal too. I said=0D
> I'd let my hair grow until it was long enough to sit on and when it did=
=0D
> get long enough, it ended up being sat upon and jerking my head back wh=
en=0D
> I moved. But no, I'm not cutting my 3+ feet of hair either :>.=0D
>=0D
> --annora (new goal is halfway to my knees)=0D
>=0D
> _______________________________________________=0D
> h-costume mailing list=0D
> h-costume@mail.indra.com=0D
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=0D
>=0D
>=0D
=0D
=0D
_______________________________________________=0D
h-costume mailing list=0D
h-costume@mail.indra.com=0D
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=0D
=2E=20
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-------Original Message-------

Hey, I resemble those remarks in full! I cut my hair from waist=
 length to just past shoulder length for a totally different reason. Seve=
re arthritis makes long hair difficult to manage, and my hair is long eno=
ugh still that I can do whatever I want to with it.


 


When I started having the thinning problem (after having extremely t=
hick hair for years), I thought it was hormones too, but it turns out it =
wasn't. I won't take estrogen as after a while it starts making me mornin=
g sick. Turns out I had a thyroid disorder. Now that my meds have been fi=
gured out, my hair is coming back, and quite nicely too.


 


Like you, almost done with the change--HUZZAH!! Worst part of it for=
 me was the farble it seemed to reduce my brains to. I haven't felt this =
mentally sharp in years.


 


Arlys


 





Date: Saturday, Fe=
bruary 22, 2003 11:46:25 AM



Subject: RE: [h-co=
st] Re: long hair


 
I had waist length hair which had been growing for 25 ye=
ars without
anything but an occasional trim. Then, last spring it bega=
n to come out in
handfuls. I would carefully wash it and then comb it =
out. The comb would
fill up two or three times before I was finished, =
and believe me I was being
careful about tugging on it, or generally d=
oing anything different than I
had ever done. I was getting very thin =
(only in the hair, sadly) and what
had been a respectable pony-tail be=
came the thickness of a kindergarten
crayola.
I tried everything an=
d nothing seemed to help. As you may notice from the
crayola example I=
'm not exactly young. I had gone through the "change"
(Halleluiah! The=
 best thing to happen to my body since breasts) several
years ago and =
had no problems. I finally went to the gynecologist and had
my estroge=
n adjusted and that seemed to stop the problem. I stopped losing
hair,=
 and began to grow some of it back, but it's never going to be as thickas it was. I wonder if this isn't another reason why older women tend t=
o
cut their hair short.

Regina

> -----Original Messag=
e-----
> From: h-costu=
me-admin@indra.com [mail=
to:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of annora
> Sent=
: Saturday, February 22, 2003 10:38 AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re=
: long hair
>
>
> > YMMV, but I still love my long h=
air, and I can't wait till it's
> long enough
> > to sit o=
n.
>
> This gave me a quick chuckle because it was my goal to=
o. I said
> I'd let my hair grow until it was long enough to sit on=
 and when it did
> get long enough, it ended up being sat upon and =
jerking my head back when
> I moved. But no, I'm not cutting my 3+ =
feet of hair either :>.
>
> --annora (new goal is halfway =
to my knees)
>
> ____________________________________________=
___
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/li=
stinfo/h-costume
>
>


_________________________=
______________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/=
listinfo/h-costume
. 












______________________=
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<=
A href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=3D309&lang=3D9">=
3D""  IncrediMail - Email has=
 finally evolved - =
Click Here
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:43:25 -0800
 "Kendra Van Cleave"  wrote:
> Karen, you are far more dedicated than me (altho I am
> planning to embroider
> my stomacher...)
> 
> Let us see pics when you're done!
> 
Well, I'm sure there will be pictures after Costume Con, or
maybe during - the chairman says he'll be posting pictures
online while the convention is still going!

See, that's why I'm so "dedicated"; it's a competition
piece (but still nowhere near Bjarne's level of skill - I
only wish I were that good!).

Karen
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.
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In a message dated 2/24/2003 3:34:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:


> Bucket boots? For Captain Morgan? That isn't the right period for sloppy 
> bucket
> top boots as far as I emember my pirates. Which years was he active?
> 

Yes yes....I know. a justicorps and bucket top boots....what the...?


But it's a logo for rum. It's all matchy-matchy too...the red of the coat 
matches the hat....the blue breeches match the cap... yuk!

But it's ADVERTISING! That's why the sued boots may work better than others. 
Still, I don't plan to make things match perfectly. And if this guy is gonna 
buy a pair of boots, I should get him a nice pair [I can borrow later if need 
be ;-)  ]

--part1_6a.2e01bd55.2b8b9fd9_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 2/24/2003 3:34:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, ni=
colas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:






Bucket boots? For Captain Morga=
n? That isn't the right period for sloppy bucket

top boots as far as I emember my pirates. Which years was he active?






Yes yes....I know. a justicorps and bucket top boots....what the...?





But it's a logo for rum. It's all matchy-matchy too...the red of the coat ma=
tches the hat....the blue breeches match the cap... yuk!



But it's ADVERTISING! That's why the sued boots may work better than others.=
 Still, I don't plan to make things match perfectly. And if this guy is gonn=
a buy a pair of boots, I should get him a nice pair [I can borrow later if n=
eed be ;-)  ]

--part1_6a.2e01bd55.2b8b9fd9_boundary--
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 12:47:12 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
From: sylvia 
To: 
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:49:01 -0700
Status: RO

I still say it's earlier, based again on the Pucci type print, which was
from the late 60s and the Mandarin collar, also from the late 60s.  It's not
the kind of ethnic print one sees in the 70s.  Not tht it couldnt have still
been in style in the early 70s.  And pattern companies tend to be somewhat
behind the times.

Sylrog

on 2/24/03 5:56 AM, Lloyd Mitchell at rmitchell@washjeff.edu wrote:

> Yes Robin, it was the E-bay garment.  I should not try to respond when I am
> waking up.  Sorry, Kathleen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Netherton" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
>> 
>>> coming in on this 24 hours late, this costume is about 1973.  I have the
>>> pattern and made several of these garments for custumers  at this time.
> It
>>> was the rage during the ethnic revival during the "Flower Children
> craze.
>>> Kathleen
>> 
>> Which costume? Perhaps the ebay one we were discussing? You attached your
>> reply on an unrelated message, so I can't be sure.
>> 
>> --Robin
>> 
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> 
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Subject: [h-cost] ?FAB! 30's CHIFFON EMBROIDERED VINTAGE DRESS ?
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Hi all,

Now this one has me really baffled...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811794437&category
=20302

1930's?

yours,
bemused,
Stevie

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        It may be baffling, but it is beautiful and makes me wish I were
forty years younger and lighter.  

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.
To: h-costume@indra.com
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 --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > I
> Yes yes....I know. a justicorps and bucket top boots....what the...?
> 
> 
> But it's a logo for rum. It's all matchy-matchy too...the red of the coat 
> matches the hat....the blue breeches match the cap... yuk!

AAHHH!!!!! *pence drops*

> But it's ADVERTISING! That's why the sued boots may work better than others. 
> Still, I don't plan to make things match perfectly. And if this guy is gonna 
> buy a pair of boots, I should get him a nice pair [I can borrow later if need

Didn't realise it's for advertising! Still, I didn't like the boots you showed
us, the shoe part really looked just awfully wrong. Wish I knew a supplier in
the US who is as cheap n cheerful n good for what it costs as the ones here.
Sorry.

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 14:07:56 2003
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Lalah wrote

>         It may be baffling, but it is beautiful and makes me wish I
were
> forty years younger and lighter.

Well, both my daughter (16) and me (52) had exactly the same response
to your note;  if you love it, and could wear it, then do it, and to
heck with what other people might think. Which would be, in many
cases, admiration for you and your dress!

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 14:27:32 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] original hair question, second try
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kim long at the WAK shack on the lower haight does lots of retro styles 
-
marcel waves, 40's rolls, etc.  You might try a consultation with her
to see if she can help out.


On Monday, February 24, 2003, at 12:34 AM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

>
>> Back view of a straight-cut bob:
>> http://www150.pair.com/aluna/images/bobdb/4/big/mhgall~1.jpg
>
> Notice how her hair doesn't stay straight on the sides - that's what 
> my hair does, with a few waves added in before it hits my shoulders.  
> I tried this kind of style when I was in high school, when I had lots 
> of hair, just before I let it go Hippie-long.  The minute it got long 
> enough to hit my shoulders, it folded up, down, and several other 
> unplanned ways at the ends.  But your example does look long enough to 
> put up.
>
> And, fortunately, we're talking historical here.  Part of the time I 
> get to put it all up and wear a nice historical hat, which I won't 
> have to take off even if I am visiting indoors.  But this may be the 
> incentive to make that maid costume I keep intending to make, as maids 
> never take their caps off.
>
>> I highly recommend going to a stylist who can cut wavy hair.  
>> Stylists who
>> deal with black hair have a better shot at giving you a cut that will 
>> actually
>> hold the desired shape when _you_ have to try and style it.  They can 
>> usually
>> also give you better styling tips than stylists who are used to 
>> straight hair.
>
> Stylist - got any local recommendations?
>
>
> Kayta
>
>    //// \\\
>   ////-@@\\\
>  ((((   7 )))
>   (((  <> ))))
>      )   ((((((
> /----\   /---\))
>
> _______________________________________________
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In a message dated 2/24/2003 12:51:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:


> Still, I didn't like the boots you showed
> us, the shoe part really looked just awfully wrong.

Upon looking at them again, I think these pair are like a size 5 or 
something. Very small feet. I'm thinking a size 10 will look better.

Optimism reigns!

--part1_a3.3b42f2e3.2b8bbeb6_boundary
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In a message dated 2/24/2003 12:51:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, n=
icolas_fouquet@yahoo.com writes:






Still, I didn't like the boots=20=
you showed

us, the shoe part really looked just awfully wrong.




Upon looking at them again, I think these pair are like a size 5 or somethin=
g. Very small feet. I'm thinking a size 10 will look better.



Optimism reigns!

--part1_a3.3b42f2e3.2b8bbeb6_boundary--
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
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Subject: [h-cost] 1920s panne velvet
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Status: RO

Hi all,

I've been looking through possibles for a late 20's evening gown, and
thought that perhaps the rasberry panne velvet which I bought at Paron
Fabrics (thanks once again, Agnes) would be suitable. The problem is
that I don't think I could cut it on the bias for the floaty pointed
hem I want to achieve because the direction of the pile is so strong.
Can anyone advise?

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 14:52:37 2003
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From: "Nancy Kiel" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?
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Nancy Kiel
nancy_kiel@hotmail.com
Never tease a weasel!
This is very good advice.
For the weasel will not like it
And teasing isn't nice.


If your dress fabric is light, the edges of your side hoops might be 
visible, so a petticoat of a textured lightweight material would soften the 
edges (just like flounced petticoats prevent the dreaded hoopline often 
visible in Civil War gowns, both period and recreated).


>From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
>Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com
>To: 
>Subject: [h-cost] 18th c. petticoats?
>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:59:20 -0800
>
>For any of you who work on the 18th century (Bjarne?), what sorts of under
>petticoats do you normally wear under a robe a la francaise w/ pocket 
>hoops?
>I'm thinking about one plain (cotton) petticoat underneath the dress
>petticoat, but I'm wondering whether I need more than this.
>
>(I'm using the JP Ryan robe a la francaise pattern, and she recommends
>wearing a quilted petticoat underneath the dress petticoat -- opinions on
>whether that's necessary?)
>
>Thanks!
>
>- Kendra
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 15:14:21 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] ?FAB! 30's CHIFFON EMBROIDERED VINTAGE DRESS ?
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To Stevie-

HMMMM, I remember wearing something _very_ similar in silhouette and 
color in the 1970's.  I think it's a revival of the 30's but not really 
30's.  On the other hand, it's one of those timeless styles that would 
probably look good on those of us in our GLORIOUS, WISE AND FULFILLING 
50s!!  Those colors are fabulous on an autumn person (those of us who 
care for that system, to begin with) - so, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, why not put 
it on and flaunt it!!! Thanks for posting that, it brings back memories!!

Theresa Eacker

Stevie Gamble wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Now this one has me really baffled...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811794437&category
> =20302
> 
> 1930's?
> 
> yours,
> bemused,
> Stevie
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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> 
> 


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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 15:33:52 2003
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>3.)  Shave it all off, and become a nun.

Oh really, Kayta, that Siniad O'Conner look is so last
century!


=====
--cin
Cynthia
hysteria95126@yahoo.com

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>3.)  Shave it all off, and become a nun.

Oh really, Kayta, that Siniad O'Conner look is so last
century!


=====
--cin
Cynthia
hysteria95126@yahoo.com

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 15:40:19 2003
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From: "Nancy Kiel" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th.century petticoats
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:33:52 -0500
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Out of curiosity, why do you think she is wearing a petticoat under her side 
hoops?  I would have assumed it was her shift.



Nancy Kiel
nancy_kiel@hotmail.com
Never tease a weasel!
This is very good advice.
For the weasel will not like it
And teasing isn't nice.





>From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
>Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com
>To: 
>Subject: [h-cost] 18th.century petticoats
>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:05:53 +0100
>
>Hi.
>I have uploaded a picture for you. This is a charicature drawing, but i
>think it is very correct anyway.
>The old lady is wearing a linen petticoat under her stays and pocket hoops.
>Her dress is lying on the chair, ready to go over the underwear.
>I dont think she is using a quilted petticoat, it would be much two bulky 
>to
>use over pocket hoops.
>Hope this is helpfull for you!
>
>http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/oldcoquette.html
>
>
>
>Bjarne
>
>
>
>
>Leif og Bjarne Drews
>www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
>http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 16:06:46 2003
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My hair's to my knees and I do sit on it all the time, but that's not the
main problem I encounter.  Getting it caught on other people or sat on by
other people is a constant annoyance, as is squatting to pick up something,
shifting my feet unconsciously (invariably onto my hair), and then yanking
strands out of my head as I stand up.  I haven't been to a hairdresser
in...well, many years.

-- Maral

----- Original Message -----
From: "annora" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair


> > YMMV, but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till it's long
enough
> > to sit on.
>
> This gave me a quick chuckle because it was my goal too.  I said
> I'd let my hair grow until it was long enough to sit on and when it did
> get long enough, it ended up being sat upon and jerking my head back when
> I moved.  But no, I'm not cutting my 3+ feet of hair either :>.
>
> --annora (new goal is halfway to my knees)
>
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 16:20:27 2003
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From: "ches" 
To: 
References: <1c9.58f3f3c.2b8aa1c6@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.
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List-Id: Re-creating period costume,
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:37:01 -0600
Status: RO

Actually, all you have to do is cut off the tops of some ropers where they
are sewn to the foot part and use that as your pattern for the tops of the
bucket tops. :)

Make them as sloppy as you want then take the whole thing to a shoe
maker/repair place and have them stitch it back on. Might think about
putting in some loops so that he can garter them up to his waist.

Old pair of ropers from goodwill should do it, around 15.00 or so depending
on what part of the country you are in.

If you need more instructions than that I can look up an old url where it is
at or you can do a search on Goggle, just take the filters off and just
click carefully. :)

Sincerely,
Chiara
Ansteorra, Steppes
Not all ermine spots are created equally

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:14 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Bucket top boots.


> So, I have an order to make a Capt. Morgan, as in spiced rum, outfit.
Looks
> pretty straight forward, and I've talked him out of the cape [I think].
After
> all, he's wearing it in Hawaii.
>
> Anyway, who makes a good pair of sloppy bucket top boots? I'd have to have
> them made, right? No one just carries them in stock, do they?
>
> While I'm askin' .....where can I get like 20 yards of wide gold braid.
It's
> on the edge of everything....even the damn boots! [actually I have a bolt
of
> great gold braid, but I'd rather save it for something of MINE]
>
> On the rum label, the good Captain's justicorps is buttoned up. But I'm
> thinking of talking the guy into a waistcoat. That way he could shed the
coat
> after he makes an entrance and still look smart.
>
> Hmmmm....maybe I will make the cape....
>
> He says money is no object .....we'll see....
>

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 16:20:41 2003
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From: "ches" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: 70s fashions, was re: Re: [h-cost] A little Rant
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:41:06 -0600
Status: RO

Ah yes, the mini skirt, I have gone through both ages of it, the 70's and
the 90's. Both times I slightly altered the skirts if they had the allowance
for it. I put in a little tuck at the hem on the side seams. This created a
curve inward to my body. I have the hour glass figure, in the 70's it was a
small one, in the 90's is was slightly wider but not by much so it worked,
it went with the lines of my body.

Now for the pleated mini's, those were a challenge. Minimal picking things
off the floor action and the purse was extra long to help hold the skirt
down in back if I had to pick something up, bending at the knees. I would
slide the purse behind me and slowly move down to pick whatever up.

My favorite mini? The thick suede micro-mini with a zipper, it hugged me so
tight that I did not have to do any alterations at all and as for picking up
anything from the floor, ha. Smile and ask someone else to help you. Sitting
involved placing my hands on the sides and then once I sat down placed my
hands on my lap keeping one there at all times while I sat to help deflect
any flashing. The big helper, I never drank and dressed in a micro-mini, bad
mix, seen it done and the pictures are embarrassing for the group of girls
that did it. (Being part of a sys admin group means you have to go through
and snoop on the system for things that should not be on a corporate
computer and send out warnings to the abusers, *shakes head*. This picture
of the group of girls were very popular with the executive group, both
sexes, it was a huge joke to them.)

Sincerely,
Franchesca Vecchio Havas

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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 16:24:21 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th.century petticoats
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:26:54 +0100
Status: RO

Hello.
If it had ben a long shift, it would not have had so many folds. I am sure
it is a petticoat, but i cant profe it.
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/oldcoquette.html


Bjarne
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Kiel" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th.century petticoats


> Out of curiosity, why do you think she is wearing a petticoat under her
side
> hoops?  I would have assumed it was her shift.
>
>
>
> Nancy Kiel
> nancy_kiel@hotmail.com
> Never tease a weasel!
> This is very good advice.
> For the weasel will not like it
> And teasing isn't nice.
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
> >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com
> >To: 
> >Subject: [h-cost] 18th.century petticoats
> >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:05:53 +0100
> >
> >Hi.
> >I have uploaded a picture for you. This is a charicature drawing, but i
> >think it is very correct anyway.
> >The old lady is wearing a linen petticoat under her stays and pocket
hoops.
> >Her dress is lying on the chair, ready to go over the underwear.
> >I dont think she is using a quilted petticoat, it would be much two bulky
> >to
> >use over pocket hoops.
> >Hope this is helpfull for you!
> >
> >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/oldcoquette.html
> >
> >
> >
> >Bjarne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Leif og Bjarne Drews
> >www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> >
> >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >h-costume mailing list
> >h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 16:38:47 2003
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Stevie wrote:

<>

How about 1970s? It looks similar to the dress my late
mother-in-law wore to my wedding.

I was amused by the descriptions of the other garments
this person is offering, especially the "100% cotton
knit Adolfo" when the photograph of the label clearly
shows "65% polyester, 35% cotton" and the "French
Lanvin Silk Dress" with the Diane von Furstenberg/I.
Magnin label in it. I was partcularly amused by this
dress (a "vintage" 1978 DvF silk shirt-dress in
peacock blue), as I bought the same dress at some
little shop in the Fairfax district of LA (I can't
remember the name, but they were right off Wilshire,
and sold remaindered designer-label clothes) in July
1978 for a friend's wedding (afternoon wedding in
August in L.A. = Hot!). I think I paid about $10, and
wore it to work until it finally fell apart in about
1981.

Thanks for the quick sprint down "Memory Lane." 8-D

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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Subject: [h-cost] FW: [GermanRenCostume] Puff and Slash PDF-hopefully a solution to your problems
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2DBF9.1CAE7490
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Several folks were having problems with this file on Yahoo.  Laura L.
reminded me that I had originally posted to this group as well so I
thought I would forward the links below for those of you who may have
had problems with the large document.  I have also provided it a few
pages at a time.
 
Sg
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:33 AM
To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GermanRenCostume] Puff and Slash PDF-hopefully a solution to
your problems
 
I have removed the document from the Files section to save space for the
rest of our pictures etc.  I have placed a link in the Links section.
You can go there to link to the document, or use these links.  
 
I have posted the entire document below for those of you who can handle
the large file (I have someone who took the class who offered to take a
look at reducing its size)
 
 
http://www.saragrace.net/Puff

&Slash/PS_2003_Entire_Doc.pdf
 
 
Or if you want to download it a few pages at a time, you can go here:
 
http://www.saragrace.net/Puff
 &Slash/Pages/
 
 
Note:  Pages 11-13 are just a list of artists to research (also
available elsewhere on our Yahoo group) and my contact information.
 
Sg
 
Hope this helps solve the problems you were having.  Please let me know
if you encounter further problems.
 




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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2DBF9.1CAE7490
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Several folks =
were
having problems with this file on Yahoo. 
Laura L. reminded me that I had originally posted to this group =
as well
so I thought I would forward the links below for those of you who may =
have had
problems with the large document.  =
I
have also provided it a few pages at a =
time.



 






Sg






 






-----Original Message-----

From: Saragrace Knauf
[mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] 

Sent: =
Monday, February 24, =
2003 9:33 AM

To:
GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com

Subject: =
[GermanRenCostume] Puff
and Slash PDF-hopefully a solution to your problems



 



I have removed the document from =
the Files
section to save space for the rest of our pictures etc.  I have placed a link in the =
Links
section.  You can go there =
to link
to the document, or use these links. 




 



I have posted the entire document =
below
for those of you who can handle the large file (I have someone who took =
the
class who offered to take a look at reducing its =
size)



 



 



h=
ttp://www.saragrace.net/Puff&Slash/PS_2003_Entire_Doc.pdf



 



 



Or if you want to download it a few =
pages
at a time, you can go here:



 



http://www.saragr=
ace.net/Puff&Slash/Pages/



 



 



Note: 
Pages 11-13 are just a list of artists to research (also =
available
elsewhere on our Yahoo group) and my contact =
information.



 






Sg



 <=
/span>



Hope this helps =
solve the
problems you were having.  =
Please
let me know if you encounter further =
problems.









 




















 

  
  
Yahoo! Groups =
Sponsor

  		
 

 

  
  

  

   

    
    
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        Don't think I could get my 38 boobs and 34 waist into that
glorious garment, but if I had the money to spare I would buy it just to
touch and look at.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Subject: [h-cost] gentlemans 1775 waistcoat is finished
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Hi
Today my waistcoat has finished!
As promised, pictures at:
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
Tomorrow i go on with the jacket.

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans 1775 waistcoat is finished
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:33:07 +0000 (GMT)
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Amazing!!!
It may not be my fav colours but you will look stunning in the suit!

Nicole

 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Hi
> Today my waistcoat has finished!
> As promised, pictures at:
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> Tomorrow i go on with the jacket.
> 
> Bjarne
> 
> 
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> 
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> 
> 
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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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> little Elizabeth Anne was born by Caesarian ...

Nice name.  :)
						...eliz (Elizabeth Anne)



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        That is so magnificent!  I had to send your website to the friend
I made the Colonial garb for.  I hope they don't think my stuff is too
junky after they see it, but your work needs to be shared.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Congratulations!
Sharon

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Congratulations!

Sharon

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] ?FAB! 30's CHIFFON EMBROIDERED VINTAGE DRESS ?
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 --- catpurson@juno.com wrote: >         Don't think I could get my 38 boobs
and 34 waist into that

*blinks* Lalah, and you keep moaning about your figure? That sounds like a
GREAT figure! 

Nicole

=====
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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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In a message dated 2/24/2003 3:23:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


> If it had ben a long shift, it would not have had so many folds. I am sure
> it is a petticoat, but i cant profe it.
> 

Remember, it's an illustration.....and a caricature at that. I think it's her 
shift. It doesn't look THAT full and the short length makes me think 
"chemise"....which is also off her shoulders and under her bust.

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In a message dated 2/24/2003 3:23:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, dr=
ewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:






If it had ben a long shift, it=20=
would not have had so many folds. I am sure

it is a petticoat, but i cant profe it.






Remember, it's an illustration.....and a caricature at that. I think it's he=
r shift. It doesn't look THAT full and the short length makes me think "chem=
ise"....which is also off her shoulders and under her bust.

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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] gentlemans 1775 waistcoat is finished
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:54:22 -0700
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I really enjoy watching the 'real time' progression of your suit.  It is
like making the garment vicariously.  Is there such a thing as 'garment
making' voyeurism?  Its great, it is like one less thing on my mental
'to do' list!!

Sg


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In a message dated 2/24/2003 4:54:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
saragrace@earthlink.net writes:


> Is there such a thing as 'garment
> making' voyeurism?  

Oh .....MOST DEFINITELY!

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In a message dated 2/24/2003 4:54:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, sa=
ragrace@earthlink.net writes:






Is there such a thing as 'garme=
nt

making' voyeurism?  




Oh .....MOST DEFINITELY!

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] original hair question, second try
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>kim long at the WAK shack on the lower haight does lots of retro styles -
>marcel waves, 40's rolls, etc.  You might try a consultation with her
>to see if she can help out.

Thank you.  Sounds like an out-of-the-box kind of stylist.  Next time I'm 
in the neighborhood I could look her up.


Kayta

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> >3.)  Shave it all off, and become a nun.
>
>Oh really, Kayta, that Siniad O'Conner look is so last
>century!

Yeah, but a nun's wimple is period for several centuries...


Kayta

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Dianne,

My daughter was born with two white/blonde streaks just above her temples.
The rest of her hair is a medium brown.  The streaks are about  1" diameter.
The streaks also have a different texture and are not as curly as the rest
of her hair.  Some old ladies told me that they used to call these devil
streaks.  In the summertime, the streaks turn white-white.  Since my
daughter swims on team the sun really bleaches them out.  She wears her hair
in one ponytail when she swims and the streaks spread out.  Then everyone
thinks she is a blonde because the streaks covers her brown hair.

Last week she came home mad as a wet hornet.  I told you all she invents all
these hairstyles... well she took one of the streaks and made it in a long
sausage curl to hang beside her face.  Her sausage curls are always
perfectly smooth.  The rest of the hair she pulled back in the cork-screw
ringlets.  Everyone kept asking her where did she buy the blonde extension.
She would pull on it and say, "It is my real hair!!!"  No one believed her.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Applique, was Re: [h-cost] Definitely OT: My Godchild's here! Already!!!
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 --- Elizabeth Lear  wrote: > > little Elizabeth Anne was born
by Caesarian ...
> 
> Nice name.  :)
> 						...eliz (Elizabeth Anne)

*grins* Now what a coincidence :-)

Thanks for the good wishes, she's doing fine but still too weak to open her
eyes, it'll be fine though, I do believe that.
Bought dark red and dark blue fleece today to make the blanket as an Edward III
flag, quartered in blue and red and with 'gold' (soft yellow cotton) lions and
fleur-de-lys on it. It has been ages since I last appliqued anything, any tips?

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Arlys,

I am sorry to hear about your arthritis and that you had to cut your hair.
Is there someone who can help you do your hair?

I had a lung collapse in 1990, and my husband has been doing my hair ever
since.  I also had a disk removed from my neck in 2001, so putting my hands
above my hear for more than a couple of seconds is very hard.  The lung
collapse and the neck surgery has left me with a very weak neck and
shoulders.  My sweet husband washes, dries, and dyes my hair for me.  When
he isn't available, my little Katie does it.... (not the dying).  She is
always practicing new styles with my long hair.  She calls me her Grown Up
Barbie Doll.  I have taught all my sons how to brush and braid my hair.
Each one is very careful to thread out knots.

My mother-in-law was a hairdresser.  One of the best things she instilled in
all of us is that it is an honor to work with someone's hair.  My kids, even
the grown ones, love my hair.  As children they would sit in my lap and
stroke my hair... especially if they were upset about something.  They have
never complained about working with it... especially Katie who is always
waiting for the moment for me to ask if she can fix it.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Cynthia Ley
  To: h-costume@indra.com
  Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 10:27 AM
  Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: long hair




        -------Original Message-------
        Hey, I resemble those remarks in full! I cut my hair from waist
length to just past shoulder length for a totally different reason. Severe
arthritis makes long hair difficult to manage, and my hair is long enough
still that I can do whatever I want to with it.

        When I started having the thinning problem (after having extremely
thick hair for years), I thought it was hormones too, but it turns out it
wasn't. I won't take estrogen as after a while it starts making me morning
sick. Turns out I had a thyroid disorder. Now that my meds have been figured
out, my hair is coming back, and quite nicely too.

        Like you, almost done with the change--HUZZAH!! Worst part of it for
me was the farble it seemed to reduce my brains to. I haven't felt this
mentally sharp in years.

        Arlys

        From: h-costume@indra.com
        Date: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:46:25 AM
        To: h-costume@indra.com
        Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: long hair

        I had waist length hair which had been growing for 25 years without
        anything but an occasional trim. Then, last spring it began to come
out in
        handfuls. I would carefully wash it and then comb it out. The comb
would
        fill up two or three times before I was finished, and believe me I
was being
        careful about tugging on it, or generally doing anything different
than I
        had ever done. I was getting very thin (only in the hair, sadly) and
what
        had been a respectable pony-tail became the thickness of a
kindergarten
        crayola.
        I tried everything and nothing seemed to help. As you may notice
from the
        crayola example I'm not exactly young. I had gone through the
"change"
        (Halleluiah! The best thing to happen to my body since breasts)
several
        years ago and had no problems. I finally went to the gynecologist
and had
        my estrogen adjusted and that seemed to stop the problem. I stopped
losing
        hair, and began to grow some of it back, but it's never going to be
as thick
        as it was. I wonder if this isn't another reason why older women
tend to
        cut their hair short.

        Regina

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: h-costume-admin@indra.com
[mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
        > Behalf Of annora
        > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 10:38 AM
        > To: h-costume@indra.com
        > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
        >
        >
        > > YMMV, but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till it's
        > long enough
        > > to sit on.
        >
        > This gave me a quick chuckle because it was my goal too. I said
        > I'd let my hair grow until it was long enough to sit on and when
it did
        > get long enough, it ended up being sat upon and jerking my head
back when
        > I moved. But no, I'm not cutting my 3+ feet of hair either :>.
        >
        > --annora (new goal is halfway to my knees)
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > h-costume mailing list
        > h-costume@mail.indra.com
        > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
        >
        >


        _______________________________________________
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        h-costume@mail.indra.com
        http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
        .


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Arlys,


 


I am sorry to hear about your arthritis and that you had to cut =
your=20
hair.  Is there someone who can help you do your hair?


 


I had a lung collapse in 1990, and my husband has been doing my =
hair ever=20
since.  I also had a disk removed from my neck in 2001, so putting =
my hands=20
above my hear for more than a couple of seconds is very hard.  The =
lung=20
collapse and the neck surgery has left me with a very weak neck and =
shoulders.=20
 My sweet husband washes, dries, and dyes my =
hair for=20
me.  When he isn't available, my little Katie does it.... (not =
the=20
dying).  She is always practicing new styles with my long =

hair.  She calls me her Grown Up Barbie Doll.  I have taught =
all my=20
sons how to brush and braid my hair.  Each one is very =
careful to=20
thread out knots.  


 


My mother-in-law was a hairdresser.  One of the best =
things=20
she instilled in all of us is that it is an honor to work with =

someone's hair.  My kids, even the grown ones, love my =
hair.  As=20
children they would sit in my lap and stroke my hair... especially if =
they were=20
upset about something.  They have never complained about working =
with it...=20
especially Katie who is always waiting for the moment for me to ask if =
she can=20
fix it.        


 


Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & =
Costume=20
Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com =

http://www.costumeclassroom.com<=
/A>
http://www.onlinecostumeball.co=
m


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Cynthia =
Ley=20

  
  
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 =
10:27=20
  AM

  
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: long =
hair

  


  

    

      
        

 

        
-------Original=20
        Message-------

        
Hey, I resemble those remarks in full! I cut my hair =
from=20
        waist length to just past shoulder length for a totally =
different=20
        reason. Severe arthritis makes long hair difficult to manage, =
and my=20
        hair is long enough still that I can do whatever I want to with=20
it.

        
 

        
When I started having the thinning problem (after having =
extremely=20
        thick hair for years), I thought it was hormones too, but it =
turns out=20
        it wasn't. I won't take estrogen as after a while it starts =
making me=20
        morning sick. Turns out I had a thyroid disorder. Now that my =
meds have=20
        been figured out, my hair is coming back, and quite nicely =
too.

        
 

        
Like you, almost done with the change--HUZZAH!! Worst part =
of it=20
        for me was the farble it seemed to reduce my brains to. I =
haven't felt=20
        this mentally sharp in years.

        
 

        
Arlys

        
 

        

        
From: h-costume@indra.com

        
Date: =
Saturday,=20
        February 22, 2003 11:46:25 AM

        
To: h-costume@indra.com

        
Subject: =
RE: [h-cost]=20
        Re: long hair

        
 
I had waist length hair which had been growing =
for 25=20
        years without
anything but an occasional trim. Then, last =
spring it=20
        began to come out in
handfuls. I would carefully wash it and =
then=20
        comb it out. The comb would
fill up two or three times before =
I was=20
        finished, and believe me I was being
careful about tugging on =
it, or=20
        generally doing anything different than I
had ever done. I =
was=20
        getting very thin (only in the hair, sadly) and what
had been =
a=20
        respectable pony-tail became the thickness of a=20
        kindergarten
crayola.
I tried everything and nothing =
seemed to=20
        help. As you may notice from the
crayola example I'm not =
exactly=20
        young. I had gone through the "change"
(Halleluiah! The best =
thing to=20
        happen to my body since breasts) several
years ago and had no =

        problems. I finally went to the gynecologist and had
my =
estrogen=20
        adjusted and that seemed to stop the problem. I stopped =
losing
hair,=20
        and began to grow some of it back, but it's never going to be as =

        thick
as it was. I wonder if this isn't another reason why =
older=20
        women tend to
cut their hair short.

Regina

> =

        -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com=20
        [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.co=
m]On
>=20
        Behalf Of annora
> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 10:38 =

        AM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
>=20
        Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
>
>
> > =
YMMV,=20
        but I still love my long hair, and I can't wait till =
it's
> long=20
        enough
> > to sit on.
>
> This gave me a =
quick=20
        chuckle because it was my goal too. I said
> I'd let my =
hair grow=20
        until it was long enough to sit on and when it did
> get =
long=20
        enough, it ended up being sat upon and jerking my head back =
when
>=20
        I moved. But no, I'm not cutting my 3+ feet of hair either=20
        :>.
>
> --annora (new goal is halfway to my=20
        knees)
>
>=20
        _______________________________________________
> =
h-costume=20
        mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
=
>=20
        http://mail.ind=
ra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>


________=
_______________________________________
h-costume=20
        mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
=
http://mail.ind=
ra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
.=20
      

    

      
        

          
          

            
            
            
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email =
has finally=20
  evolved - Click=20
  =
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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 18:57:00 2003
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From: "Betsy Marshall" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Definitely OT: My Godchild's here! Already!!!
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:50:53 -0600
Status: RO

yeah- there's a lot of us running around..
I personally know two more..
Elizabeth Ann Marshall
Usually Betsy

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Lear
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 3:35 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definitely OT: My Godchild's here! Already!!!


> little Elizabeth Anne was born by Caesarian ...

Nice name.  :)
						...eliz (Elizabeth Anne)



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From h-costume-admin@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 19:01:52 2003
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From: "ailith" 
To: 
References: <3E2DFAA8.7A11752F@in-tch.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20030223204601.02ef5b20@mail.attbi.com> <3E59ABFB.387E0319@in-tch.com>
Subject: Price of Henry's inventory, was: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers.
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Go here for an American site that sells this lovely book...it's just over
$260 with shipping.

http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm?&ID=8788

kate

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Clemenger" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers.


> *drooool!*
> It's 232 euro, though....what's that in US dollars, these days? About
> 300?
> --sue
>
> >
> > At 08:10 AM 1/22/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> > >The title is _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: the transcript_. It's
> > >edited by David Starkey. It's published by Harvey Miller Publishers
> > >for The Society of Antiquaries of London. ISBN 1-872501-89-3. I hope
> > >that helps. ;)
> > >Kat
> > >
> > > > Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but
I'd
> > > > need all the normal info (including title ). Thanks, Sue
> > >

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From: "michaela" 
To: 
References: <015601c2dc2b$2c7402a0$061923d9@dan>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] ?FAB! 30's CHIFFON EMBROIDERED VINTAGE DRESS ?
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> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811794437&category
> =20302
>
> 1930's?

Screams very late 60s early 70s to me.... colours, style, that ribbon at the
waist the gathers at the waist and not being bias cut as well......... maybe
a search on Maison Olymic might clarify things..

And that's not silk chiffon. If it's silk, it's georgette (no clear
crinkles, but it does appear to have a . It also screams poly to me.. but
that's because I'm thinking 1970s;)

I could fit it, but eh... not me.

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume/



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:23:48 -0800
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Elizabeth Lear wrote:

>>little Elizabeth Anne was born by Caesarian ...
>>    
>>
>
>Nice name.  :)
>						...eliz (Elizabeth Anne)
>  
>
me to
Elizabeth Anne
(We're everywhere)

lizyoung@fenris.net

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:02:08 -0800
From: Sidne Kneeland 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Greetings all, 

Oooh, a hair topic.  I too have long hair and it is a daily fight against the urge to cut it.  But, as I have explained to people, if I have short hair, I look like a fuzzy bowling ball -- trust me on this.  People constantly hint that, 'Oh, your hair is pulled back, I thought you CUT it.'  

I don't know how long it will grow but I have noticed quite a few more people lately (women mostly) going back to the long hair fashion.  I try to keep it healthy.  Out here in the Northwest my hair comes up with waves I never knew it had.  Its good for reenactment purposes.  I keep reminding myself of that.  

Hi Arlys. 

Sidne 

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Greetings all, 


 


Oooh, a hair topic.  I too have long hair and it is a 
daily fight against the urge to cut it.  But, as I have explained to 
people, if I have short hair, I look like a fuzzy bowling ball -- trust me on 
this.  People constantly hint that, 'Oh, your hair is pulled back, I 
thought you CUT it.'  


 


I don't know how long it will grow but I have noticed quite a 
few more people lately (women mostly) going back to the long hair fashion.  
I try to keep it healthy.  Out here in the Northwest my hair comes up with 
waves I never knew it had.  Its good for reenactment purposes.  I keep 
reminding myself of that.  


 


Hi Arlys. 


 


Sidne 


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 21:16:27 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:52:17 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] ?FAB! 30's CHIFFON EMBROIDERED VINTAGE DRESS ?
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<<>>
 
        Great, as in large, fat, etc. is what it is.  I used to be 36 -
24 - 36.  Then I went through the change and every ounce of my fat
migrated to my mid section.  Ugh!!!  My arms are bony and my face saggy
and wrinkled and all that fat that should be spread out and filling them
out is permanently ensconced on my stomach.  I really don't mean to whine
about it.  At least I am reasonably healthy for my age and I can still
keep up with people thirty years younger than I am.  And I have finally
stopped agonizing over my looks.  I figure if I am clean and reasonably
neat that is the best I can do so if people don't like what they see they
don't have to look.  Takes a lot of pressure off.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 22:10:37 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] ?FAB! 30's CHIFFON EMBROIDERED VINTAGE DRESS ?
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I didn't see the "high empire waist" and the only embroidery seems to have
been on the 'belt', which is machine work.  The fabric and overall design
looks like the 1970's to me.  The full lining and zipper are the real clue,
as well as the label.  The fabric is of the floral psychedelic too good to
be true colors for party wear of that time. If it had a chance to be of the
1930's, the lining would have been of the slip variety, no zipper, and the
fastenings if any, would have been hooks and eyes and maybe a few snaps on
the left side.        Kathleen
- ---- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:35 PM
Subject: [h-cost] ?FAB! 30's CHIFFON EMBROIDERED VINTAGE DRESS ?


> Hi all,
>
> Now this one has me really baffled...
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811794437&category
> =20302
>
> 1930's?
>
> yours,
> bemused,
> Stevie
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 23:02:42 2003
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I seem to recall some offered by Amazon Dry Goods, but
can't locate my catalogue. Does anyone on the list
know if they have them for sale? 

=====
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.  Gandhi

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 23:16:49 2003
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Oh. my. gawd!
Bjarne, it's beautiful!
You are quite the inspiration and international treasure!
--sue, going back to plain, old boring blackwork.....

Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
> 
> Hi
> Today my waistcoat has finished!
> As promised, pictures at:
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> Tomorrow i go on with the jacket.
> 
> Bjarne
> 
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> 
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> 
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 23:17:59 2003
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Oh, *absolutely* there's such a thing as garment-making voyeurism!! 
Why else would everyone's wonderful dress diaries be so popular???
--sue, loving it all ;o)

Saragrace Knauf wrote:
> 
> I really enjoy watching the 'real time' progression of your suit.  It is
> like making the garment vicariously.  Is there such a thing as 'garment
> making' voyeurism?  Its great, it is like one less thing on my mental
> 'to do' list!!
> 
> Sg
> 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definitely OT: My Godchild's here! Already!!!
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I'm a Beth named after an Ann, does that count?
--Susan "beth" Clemenger (named after a nickname of my Aunt Ann's.....)

Betsy Marshall wrote:
> 
> yeah- there's a lot of us running around..
> I personally know two more..
> Elizabeth Ann Marshall
> Usually Betsy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of Elizabeth Lear
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 3:35 PM
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Definitely OT: My Godchild's here! Already!!!
> 
> > little Elizabeth Anne was born by Caesarian ...
> 
> Nice name.  :)
>                                                 ...eliz (Elizabeth Anne)
> 
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:45:46 -0600
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
From: Sheryl Nance-Durst 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Okay,
I've got to chime in on this great discussion!
A couple of people have mentioned wavy or frizzy hair.
I'm going to plug a great book - it's called "Curly Girl".
Since my hair got long (it's currently half-way down my
back), I've been fighting with it. I couldn't get it straight
and brushing was a chore - it tangled so easily!
No one in my family has hair like mine, so I never
learned what to do with it. (Anyone remember the SNL
character Rosanne Rosanna Danna?)
This book is great for people with wavy, frizzy or curly
hair that is long. I think I've had a brush in my hair once
in the past 6 months and my hair never looked better!


(I'll jump down off my soapbox now)  

Sheryl Nance-Durst


At 04:02 PM 2/24/03 -0800, you wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>Oooh, a hair topic.  I too have long hair and it is a daily fight against 
>the urge to cut it.  But, as I have explained to people, if I have short 
>hair, I look like a fuzzy bowling ball -- trust me on this.  People 
>constantly hint that, 'Oh, your hair is pulled back, I thought you CUT it.'
>
>I don't know how long it will grow but I have noticed quite a few more 
>people lately (women mostly) going back to the long hair fashion.  I try 
>to keep it healthy.  Out here in the Northwest my hair comes up with waves 
>I never knew it had.  Its good for reenactment purposes.  I keep reminding 
>myself of that.
>
>Hi Arlys.
>
>Sidne


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 23:42:35 2003
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From: "chiara" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: bucket top boots
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They have four different kinds that would work for the media costume. All
are 17 century.
>From their Spring Catalog:
51B Pull-On Thigh boot: 650.50
51A Pull-On Thigh boot: 650.50
50 Jacobean Man's boot: 529.50
58 Marlborough Boot: 735.50

Sincerely,
Franchesca Vecchio Havas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cynthia Corley" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:02 PM
Subject: [h-cost] re: bucket top boots


> I seem to recall some offered by Amazon Dry Goods, but
> can't locate my catalogue. Does anyone on the list
> know if they have them for sale?
>
> =====
> An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.  Gandhi
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 11:48:50 2003
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: 
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:01:25 -0500
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The R&B singer Bonnie Raitt has a nice white streak too, it looks great
in her red hair.
http://www.bonnieraitt.com/

Jay Leno, otoh, seems to have the reverse; his hair is steely grey, but
the very front is still black. 
http://www.nbc.com/nbc/The_Tonight_Show_with_Jay_Leno/

Linda


-----Original Message-----
 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: long hair

Kate wrote:
The only person I remember seeing with a white streak is the singer John
Shirley-Quirk, who used to be on TV sometimes in the 60s and 70s. (My
mother used to claim it was artificial!) I've no idea what his ethnic
origin is, if it isn't Anglo-Saxon.

See http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Shirley-Quirk-John.htm










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<>

When my RA gets severe in winter and am bed bound, I too can't do my =
hair, or brush my teeth, or... well you get the picture.

But I found that if I had it in a tight plait at worst I'd have fluffies =
around my face. Those fluffies are short so it wouldn't matter if I have =
short hair. If anything it would have been worse for me. It's only ever =
the bits that are too short to be pulled back that are the problem.

I only ocasionally actually asked my mum do brush my hair. Probably =
partly pride but I find when I'm in that much pain I just get dumb and =
don't even think of asking for help. I don't even up my Anti =
Inflamatories either . Sadly they are steroidal and NSAIDs just do =
absolutely nothing to help the RA pain. Helps manage the secondary pain, =
but not the actual inflamation. I wouldn't say that's the worst part of =
RA.. I'd say the fact that all my dreams are crushed and will never be =
is the worst part with the pain a close second. But It's certainly a =
really annoying factor.

So... costume costume... yeah I only really get to sew in summer so I =
have been really busy these last two months trying to get thigns done as =
I know in a few months I'll be back to barely able to do anything.

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume
On three DMARDs one of which smells like PVA glue, and all of which are =
supposed to cause hair thinning... sigh

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<<Hey, I resemble those remarks in full! =
I cut my=20
hair from waist length to just past shoulder length for a totally =
different=20
reason. Severe arthritis makes long hair difficult to manage, and my =
hair is=20
long enough still that I can do whatever I want to with =
it.>>


 


When my RA gets severe in winter and am bed bound, I =
too can't=20
do my hair, or brush my teeth, or... well you get the =
picture.


 


But I found that if I had it in a tight plait at =
worst I'd=20
have fluffies around my face. Those fluffies are short so it wouldn't =
matter if=20
I have short hair. If anything it would have been worse for me. It's =
only ever=20
the bits that are too short to be pulled back that are the =
problem.


 


I only ocasionally actually asked my mum do brush my =
hair.=20
Probably partly pride but I find when I'm in that much pain I just get =
dumb and=20
don't even think of asking for help. I don't even up my Anti =
Inflamatories=20
either . Sadly they are steroidal and NSAIDs just do absolutely nothing =
to help=20
the RA pain. Helps manage the secondary pain, but not the actual =
inflamation. I=20
wouldn't say that's the worst part of RA.. I'd say the fact that all my =
dreams=20
are crushed and will never be is the worst part with the pain a close =
second.=20
But It's certainly a really annoying factor.


 


So... costume costume... yeah I only really get to =
sew in=20
summer so I have been really busy these last two months trying to get =
thigns=20
done as I know in a few months I'll be back to barely able to do=20
anything.


 


michaela


http://recital.tripod.com/cost=
ume


On three DMARDs one of which smells like PVA glue, =
and all of=20
which are supposed to cause hair thinning... =
sigh


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Mon Feb 24 23:52:53 2003
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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] ?FAB! 30's CHIFFON EMBROIDERED VINTAGE DRESS ?
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:32:08 -0500
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On Monday 24 February 2003 12:35 pm, Stevie Gamble wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Now this one has me really baffled...
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2811794437&category
> =20302
>
> 1930's?

This is just an opinion, mind, and the 20th century is not my period, but....

It looks more 1960s to me.  My recollection is that 1930s gowns tended to be 
more form fitting, and seldom involved such vibrant patterns.

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
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	<002f01c2da81$1d9c15c0$a40f77d8@pavilion>
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] beauty pagent wave
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:01:36 -0800
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oh, that is an excellent visual.  I shall remember that one for sure!

Thanks,

Lisa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts


> The Beauty Queen wave... aka the Queen Elizabeth wave... raise your hand
to
> ear level and pretend you are screwing in a light bulb.  LOL!!!  Watch the
> Queen wave!!!!
>
> Actually I learned that in 12th grade when I was in the Jr. Miss pageant.
> My sister has worked with the contestants for Miss America and they teach
> the same way to wave.
>
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>
>
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
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>


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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] gentlemans 1775 waistcoat is finished
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:42:24 -0500
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>  --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > Hi
>
> > Today my waistcoat has finished!
> > As promised, pictures at:
> > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm

Wow.  I could never sit still that long in a hundred million years.

Congratulations.  I look forward to shots of your jacket when you complete it!


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:21:39 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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>When my RA gets severe in winter and am bed bound, I too can't do my hair, 
>or brush my teeth, or... well you get the picture.
>
>But I found that if I had it in a tight plait at worst I'd have fluffies 
>around my face. Those fluffies are short so it wouldn't matter if I have 
>short hair. If anything it would have been worse for me. It's only ever 
>the bits that are too short to be pulled back that are the problem.

A friend, with waist-length hair, was going in for an operation, and they 
told her she'd have to cut her hair off for it.  She went to a place Black 
people go to have their hair corn-rowed, and they braided it all tight to 
her head.  She did her operation, hair intact, and still has long hair.


Kayta

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1920s panne velvet
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:04:53 -0500
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On Monday 24 February 2003 01:38 pm, Stevie Gamble wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been looking through possibles for a late 20's evening gown, and
> thought that perhaps the rasberry panne velvet which I bought at Paron
> Fabrics (thanks once again, Agnes) would be suitable. The problem is
> that I don't think I could cut it on the bias for the floaty pointed
> hem I want to achieve because the direction of the pile is so strong.
> Can anyone advise?

Maybe make the top part velvet, and use a floatier fabric for the skirt part 
of the dress?


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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She used to do my hair rolls when I did swing performances, she was
wonderful.  It's been a while since I've seen her, but I was thinking
of returning, since I want to get my long (mid back) hair cut
into a 1920's bob soon!

.heather.


On Monday, February 24, 2003, at 12:37 PM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

>
>> kim long at the WAK shack on the lower haight does lots of retro 
>> styles -
>> marcel waves, 40's rolls, etc.  You might try a consultation with her
>> to see if she can help out.
>
> Thank you.  Sounds like an out-of-the-box kind of stylist.  Next time 
> I'm in the neighborhood I could look her up.
>
>
> Kayta
>
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Kayta wrote:
>A friend, with waist-length hair, was going in for an operation, and they 
>told her she'd have to cut her hair off for it.  She went to a place Black 
>people go to have their hair corn-rowed, and they braided it all tight to 
>her head.  She did her operation, hair intact, and still has long hair.

Sounds like either the surgeon or the surgical nurse was a bozo.  I had
major eye surgery when my hair was nearly waist-length.  I just french braided
it close around my head, then they put a surgical cap over it.  Even with
neck surgery, there'd be no reason to cut her hair.  Ditto for ear or jaw
surgery.  In fact, the only reason I can think they'd need to cut someone's
hair would be if they were doing something that involved working on the skull.
Then it's unavoidable.  

For those of you with hand pain, spiral/rope braids are much easier to 
to make than 3 or 4 strand braids.  You only have to hold two strands, and
the motion is simply one of twisting instead of trying to pass one strand
over/under others.  The trick is easier to learn on someone else first 
before you try reaching up behind your own head.  I used two mirrors to do
mine at first.  Now I just do it by muscle memory.  Even on days when I can
barely move my fingers, I can still make this type of braid.  

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
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> Kayta wrote:
> >A friend, with waist-length hair, was going in for an operation, and they
> >told her she'd have to cut her hair off for it.  She went to a place
Black
> >people go to have their hair corn-rowed, and they braided it all tight to
> >her head.  She did her operation, hair intact, and still has long hair.

May as well reply to two here;) Good for her!

> Sounds like either the surgeon or the surgical nurse was a bozo. ..... In
fact, the only reason I can think they'd need to cut someone's
> hair would be if they were doing something that involved working on the
skull.
> Then it's unavoidable.

yeah.. I mean surely if nursing/surgery staff can have hair... also if it's
for lowering risk of infection... surely *any* hair would have the same
problem? I mean those caps and things are used for the purpose of
keepinghair away anyway..

But then maybe there were mitigating circumstances?...

> For those of you with hand pain, spiral/rope braids are much easier to
> to make than 3 or 4 strand braids.  You only have to hold two strands, and
> the motion is simply one of twisting instead of trying to pass one strand
> over/under others.

Actually I've found doing two braids is easiest, because it doesn't involve
trying to reach around the back of the head... and I can generally rest my
elbow on an arm rest:)

I've never been able to get a twist to hold unless I really twisted each
strand which kind of defeats the purpose..;)
*But* there are little machine braiders that run on batteries that may wekk
wind up being the way to go:)

I used to have Twist 'n' Curl Barbie and her little twister... that needed
no batteries so I'm wishing I still had it:)

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Figures Re: [h-cost] ?FAB! 30's CHIFFON EMBROIDERED VINTAGE DRESS ?
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 --- catpurson@juno.com wrote: > <
>         Great, as in large, fat, etc. is what it is.  I used to be 36 -
> 24 - 36.  

I used to be even thinner, but now it's 39 - 32 - 45, yes, you read correctly,
45 hips :-) and I love my dress dummy, Brunhilde looks gorgeous, all curvy. HA!
I defy anyone who dares to say differently about my figure.

> stopped agonizing over my looks.  I figure if I am clean and reasonably
> neat that is the best I can do so if people don't like what they see they
> don't have to look.  Takes a lot of pressure off.

If people don't like what they see then they are @#~%#£ *insert words of
choice*

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 05:00:09 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Definitely OT: My Godchild's here! Already!!!
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 --- Betsy Marshall  wrote: > yeah- there's a lot
of us running around..
> I personally know two more..
> Elizabeth Ann Marshall
> Usually Betsy

Well, Mark the dad calls her Liz, Sushi the mum calls her *grins* Goblinette
(THAT is a loooooong story, hehehe), Ben my BF calls her Bess, and I call her
Eli.

The poor child will be very confused....

Because right now she is fighting to open her eyes for the first time I guess
she doesn't give a doodah about who calls her what yet. :-)

Nicole

=====
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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 05:28:03 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:23:13 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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>But then maybe there were mitigating circumstances?...

The operation wasn't anywhere near her head.  And the operation wasn't long 
enough ago to be historical either.  Bozo, like Lee said.

Obligatory historical costume content:  apparently Larry Harmon, the 
original Bozo the Clown, still has the equivalent of a copyright on that 
combination of clown hair, costume, and make-up.  Clown make-up, etc., are 
registered someplace, like trademarks, and protected from copying by other 
clowns (and everyone else too, of course).  The "No Bozos" stickers show 
him as the copyright holder.  I'd like to think he had the sense of humor 
to have published those stickers himself.

Back in the mid-1950s, when people in San Diego could still receive Los 
Angeles TV stations on their regular home TV sets, I used to watch the Bozo 
the Clown show, which was broadcast live on KTLA, Channel 5.

Kayta

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 06:08:59 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Williamsburg Fest Week
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Williamsburg, Virginia Fest Week
www.quiltfest.com
Feb. 26-Mar. 2, 2003
General Admission $12.00 (this is usually good for the week)

Shows:
Quilt Festival: Williamsburg Marriott
Thurs & Sat 10am-6pm, Sun. 10AM-4PM

Wearable Art Festival: Clarion Hotel
Wed. 7-9 PM,  Thurs & Fri 11AM-9PM, Sat. 11AM-6PM

Quilt & Vintage Clothing Annex: Patrick Henry Inn
Wed-Fri: 10AM-6PM, Sat 10AM-5PM

Fiber Art Fair: Radisson Fort Magruder
Thurs 7-9PM, Fri-Sat 9AM-5PM, Sun. 9AM-4PM

Have Fun!!!!!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Bozo was filmed near my home town in Michigan. My Brownie Troop went to a
filming once!  One of the girls from our Troop got to go play one of the
games.

Weren't there different Bozos for different regions, at least by the late
60's?

Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"

Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:23 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair


>
> >But then maybe there were mitigating circumstances?...
>
> The operation wasn't anywhere near her head.  And the operation wasn't
long
> enough ago to be historical either.  Bozo, like Lee said.
>
> Obligatory historical costume content:  apparently Larry Harmon, the
> original Bozo the Clown, still has the equivalent of a copyright on that
> combination of clown hair, costume, and make-up.  Clown make-up, etc., are
> registered someplace, like trademarks, and protected from copying by other
> clowns (and everyone else too, of course).  The "No Bozos" stickers show
> him as the copyright holder.  I'd like to think he had the sense of humor
> to have published those stickers himself.
>
> Back in the mid-1950s, when people in San Diego could still receive Los
> Angeles TV stations on their regular home TV sets, I used to watch the
Bozo
> the Clown show, which was broadcast live on KTLA, Channel 5.
>
> Kayta
>
>     //// \\\
>    ////-@@\\\
>   ((((   7 )))
>    (((  <> ))))
>       )   ((((((
> /----\   /---\))
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:17:15 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Bozo the Clown (was Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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>Bozo was filmed near my home town in Michigan. My Brownie Troop went to a
>filming once!  One of the girls from our Troop got to go play one of the
>games.
>
>Weren't there different Bozos for different regions, at least by the late
>60's?

Yes.  I went back and looked it up.  Larry Harmon turns out to have been 
maybe the third actor to play Bozo the Clown.  Sometime, either in the late 
50s or the early 60s, he bought the entire, by then money-making, Bozo TV 
show operation, including the rights to the name, costume, make-up, and 
everything.  He then licensed out the 'product' to TV stations nationwide, 
and at one point there were dozens of Bozos all over the country.  The show 
originated in Los Angeles, on some station I don't remember, and moved 
later to KTLA, where I first saw it, and Larry Harmon, in like 1956.  The 
article I read said Bozo the Clown was 50 years old by now.  Meanwhile, 
Larry Harmon is still alive too, and apparently still doing Bozo things.

> > Obligatory historical costume content:  apparently Larry Harmon, the
> > original Bozo the Clown, still has the equivalent of a copyright on that
> > combination of clown hair, costume, and make-up.  Clown make-up, etc., are
> > registered someplace, like trademarks, and protected from copying by other
> > clowns (and everyone else too, of course).  The "No Bozos" stickers show
> > him as the copyright holder.  I'd like to think he had the sense of humor
> > to have published those stickers himself.
> >
> > Back in the mid-1950s, when people in San Diego could still receive Los
> > Angeles TV stations on their regular home TV sets, I used to watch the
>Bozo
> > the Clown show, which was broadcast live on KTLA, Channel 5.
> >
> > Kayta
> >
> >     //// \\\
> >    ////-@@\\\
> >   ((((   7 )))
> >    (((  <> ))))
> >       )   ((((((
> > /----\   /---\))
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


Kayta

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From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
To: "H-Costume" 
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:08:35 -0500
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Subject: [h-cost] panne velvet gown
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Cathy Raymond suggested a velvet bodice and chiffon skirts for Stevie"s =
1920's gown.  This might be the a good solution.  It would depend on the =
weight of the panne. I am assuming that it is probably silk and not the =
velvet with lycra that is the current rage being sold as "Panne". The =
front and back main pieces  could be cut on the bias  in roughly a large =
diamond which would provide two of the handkerchief panels of the skirt; =
the adjoining sides could be  cut on the strait to the hip giving a =
foundation for the other points. If one was to give an afternoon to a =
study of Erte, I am sure you would find other solutions as he was so =
inventive in manipulating fabric (1915-1925 period)  There is also a =
Dover reprint of French Fashions of the 1920's that might also give =
inspiration.                                                             =
                                                                         =
                                              Kathleen, getting on with =
tonight's dinner party for 10  (Yikes!)                          
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Cathy Raymond suggested a velvet bodice and chiffon =
skirts for=20
Stevie"s 1920's gown.  This might be the a good solution.  It =
would=20
depend on the weight of the panne. I am assuming that it is probably =
silk and=20
not the velvet with lycra that is the current rage being sold as =
"Panne". The=20
front and back main pieces  could be cut on the bias  in =
roughly a=20
large diamond which would provide two of the handkerchief panels of the =
skirt;=20
the adjoining sides could be  cut on the strait to the hip giving a =

foundation for the other points. If one was to give an afternoon to a =
study of=20
Erte, I am sure you would find other solutions as he was so inventive in =

manipulating fabric (1915-1925 period)  There is also a Dover =
reprint of=20
French Fashions of the 1920's that might also give inspiration.=20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
   Kathleen, getting on with tonight's dinner party for =
10 =20
(Yikes!)            =20
           =20
 


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 10:29:46 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:29:33 -0700
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Subject: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
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Someone just sent this to the German Ren Costume group.  Take a close
look at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom of the page to
click on it)
They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, could
you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how they
think the fabric was created!
 
Sg
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny McGee [mailto:curmudgeonmcgee@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:01 AM
To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GermanRenCostume] Extant Landsknecht Pants
 
Anyone know Swedish? Nice trousers, Silk braid over
leather. At the bottom of the page is a link to a
large pic.

www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm

-Erasmus

"If you see a blind man, run up and kick him. Why
should you be kinder than God?" -Iranian Proverb



__________________________________________________
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Someone just sent this to the =
German Ren Costume group. 
Take a close look at the big picture (you have to go to the =
bottom of
the page to click on it)



They almost look like they are =
knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, =
could you
take a whack at translating it?  =
I
REALLY want to know how they think the fabric was =
created!



 






Sg






 






-----Original Message-----

From: Danny McGee
[mailto:curmudgeonmcgee@yahoo.com] 

Sent: =
Tuesday, February 25, =
2003 12:01 AM

To:
GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com

Subject: =
[GermanRenCostume] Extant
Landsknecht Pants



 



Anyone know Swedish? Nice =
trousers, Silk =
braid over

leather. At the bottom of the page is a =
link to a

large pic.



www=
.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm=




-Erasmus



"If you see a blind man, run up and =
kick him.
Why

should you be kinder than God?" =
-Iranian
Proverb







__________________________________________________

Do you Yahoo!?

Yahoo!<=
font
 size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"> =
Tax =
Center - forms, =
calculators,
tips, more

http://taxes.yahoo.com/<=
br>











 

  
  
Yahoo! Groups =
Sponsor

  		
 

 

  
  

  

   

    
    
ADVERTISEMENT
    

    		
   

  

  

  

  		
 

 

  
  

  		
 







To unsubscribe =
from this
group, send an email to:

GermanRenCostume-unsubscribe@egroups.com







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Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service. 












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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 10:42:04 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
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Someone just sent this to the German Ren Costume group.  Take a close
look at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom of the page to
click on it)
They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, could
you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how they
think the fabric was created!
 
Sg
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny McGee [mailto:curmudgeonmcgee@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:01 AM
To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GermanRenCostume] Extant Landsknecht Pants
 
Anyone know Swedish? Nice trousers, Silk braid over
leather. At the bottom of the page is a link to a
large pic.

www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm

-Erasmus

"If you see a blind man, run up and kick him. Why
should you be kinder than God?" -Iranian Proverb

 

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Someone just sent this to the =
German Ren
Costume group.  Take a =
close look at
the big picture (you have to go to the bottom of the page to click on =
it)



They almost look like they are =
knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, =
could you
take a whack at translating it?  =
I
REALLY want to know how they think the fabric was =
created!



 






Sg






 






-----Original Message-----

From: Danny McGee
[mailto:curmudgeonmcgee@yahoo.com] 

Sent: =
Tuesday, February 25, =
2003 12:01 AM

To:
GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com

Subject: =
[GermanRenCostume] Extant
Landsknecht Pants



 



Anyone know Swedish? Nice =
trousers, Silk =
braid over

leather. At
the bottom of the page is a link to a

large pic.



www=
.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm=




-Erasmus



"If you
see a blind man, run up and kick him. Why

should you be kinder than God?" -Iranian =
Proverb



 















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_______________________________________________
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--===============18364703002203298==--

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 10:49:04 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:48:57 -0700
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Subject: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
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If this is triple posted, I apologize-
 
Someone just sent this to the German Ren Costume group.  It comes from a
set that was sent to us earlier, but I had not looked closely at the
'trunk hose'.
Take a close look at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom of
the page to click on it)
They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, could
you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how they
think the fabric was created!
 
Sg
 
 
www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm
 
 

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If this is triple posted, I =
apologize-



 



Someone just sent this to the =
German Ren Costume group. 
It comes from a set that was sent to us earlier, but I had not =
looked
closely at the ‘trunk hose’.



Take a close look at the big =
picture (you
have to go to the bottom of the page to click on =
it)



They almost look like they are =
knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, =
could you
take a whack at translating it?  =
I
REALLY want to know how they think the fabric was =
created!



 



Sg



 



 



www=
.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm=



 



 









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_______________________________________________
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h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

--===============58994496026168541==--

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 10:51:54 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:52:00 -0700
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Subject: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
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If this is triple posted, I apologize-It keeps getting bounced as if it
has an attachment.
 
Someone just sent this to the German Ren Costume group.  It comes from a
set that was sent to us earlier, but I had not looked closely at the
'trunk hose'.
Take a close look at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom of
the page to click on it)
They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, could
you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how they
think the fabric was created!
 
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm
 
Sg
 
 
 

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If this is triple
posted, I apologize-It keeps getting bounced as if it has an =
attachment.



 



Someone just sent this to the =
German Ren Costume group. 
It comes from a set that was sent to us earlier, but I had not =
looked
closely at the ‘trunk hose’.



Take a close look at the big =
picture (you
have to go to the bottom of the page to click on =
it)



They almost look like they are =
knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, =
could you take a
whack at translating it?  I =
REALLY want
to know how they think the fabric was =
created!



 



http://www.lsh.se/=
livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm



 <=
/span>



Sg



 



 



 









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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <001d01c2dcda$50cc1b10$6601a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:02:41 -0800
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Sg,

My dad knows swedish.  I'll write the translantion out when I get back =
from work.

Lisa
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Saragrace Knauf=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:29 AM
  Subject: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak Swedish?


  Someone just sent this to the German Ren Costume group.  Take a close =
look at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom of the page to =
click on it)

  They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, =
could you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how =
they think the fabric was created!

  =20

  Sg

  =20

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Danny McGee [mailto:curmudgeonmcgee@yahoo.com]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:01 AM
  To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [GermanRenCostume] Extant Landsknecht Pants

  =20

  Anyone know Swedish? Nice trousers, Silk braid over
  leather. At the bottom of the page is a link to a
  large pic.

  www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm

  -Erasmus

  "If you see a blind man, run up and kick him. Why
  should you be kinder than God?" -Iranian Proverb



  __________________________________________________
  Do you Yahoo!?
  Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
  http://taxes.yahoo.com/




        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      =20
              ADVERTISEMENT

            =20

      =20

      =20


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Sg,


 


My dad knows swedish.  I'll write =
the=20
translantion out when I get back from work.


 


Lisa


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Saragrace Knauf 
  
  
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, =
2003 6:29=20
  AM

  
Subject: [h-cost] Extant =
Landsknecht=20
  Pants-Wow! Anyone speak Swedish?

  


  

  
Someone =
just sent=20
  this to the German Ren Costume group.  Take a close look at the big =
picture=20
  (you have to go to the bottom of the page to click on=20
  it)

  
They almost =
look like=20
  they are knit!  If any =
of you=20
  speak Swedish, could you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how =
they think=20
  the fabric was created!

  
 

  

  
Sg

  
 

  
  
-----Original=20
  Message-----
From: =
Danny=20
  McGee [mailto:curmudgeonmcgee@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25,=20
  2003 =
12:01=20
  AM
To:=20
  GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GermanRenCostume] =
Extant=20
  Landsknecht Pants

  
 

  
Anyone know Swedish? Nice=20
  trousers, Silk =
braid=20
  over
leather. At the bottom of the page is a link to=20
  a
large=20
  pic.

www=
.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm=


-Erasmus

"If you see a blind man, run up and kick him.=20
  Why
should you be kinder =
than=20
  God?" -Iranian Proverb



__________________________________________________
Do you=20
  =
Yahoo!?
Yahoo!=20
  Tax=20
  Center - =
forms, calculators,=20
  tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/<=
BR>

  
        
Yahoo! Groups=20
        Sponsor

        

        

    
    

      

    

      

              
ADVERTISEMENT

          
          

            

        

    

      

  

To =
unsubscribe from=20
  this group, send an email to:
GermanRenCostume-unsubscribe@egroups.com

<=
/FONT>

Your use =
of Yahoo!=20
  Groups is subject to the Yahoo!=20
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_______________________________________________
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mailing=20
  =
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 11:06:49 2003
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From: "Kate Pinner" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
References: <001d01c2dcda$50cc1b10$6601a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
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When my computer downloaded the image it came up huge and it definitely =
is knit.  The interior is leather.  The silk(?) and knit is mounted on =
top of that. At least 5 or 6 different stitch patterns,  I'd have to get =
out my knitting books to name them.  If you're interested I could see if =
my printer will clearly print it and snail mail it to you.
Kate
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Saragrace Knauf=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:29 AM
  Subject: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak Swedish?


  Someone just sent this to the German Ren Costume group.  Take a close =
look at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom of the page to =
click on it)

  They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, =
could you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how =
they think the fabric was created!

  =20

  Sg

  =20

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Danny McGee [mailto:curmudgeonmcgee@yahoo.com]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:01 AM
  To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [GermanRenCostume] Extant Landsknecht Pants

  =20

  Anyone know Swedish? Nice trousers, Silk braid over
  leather. At the bottom of the page is a link to a
  large pic.

  www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm

  -Erasmus

  "If you see a blind man, run up and kick him. Why
  should you be kinder than God?" -Iranian Proverb



  __________________________________________________
  Do you Yahoo!?
  Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
  http://taxes.yahoo.com/




        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      =20
              ADVERTISEMENT

            =20

      =20

      =20


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  GermanRenCostume-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20





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When my computer downloaded the image =
it came up=20
huge and it definitely is knit.  The interior is=20
leather.  The silk(?) and knit is mounted on top of that. At least =
5 or 6=20
different stitch patterns,  I'd have to get out my knitting books =
to name=20
them.  If you're interested I could see if my printer will clearly =
print it=20
and snail mail it to you.


Kate


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Saragrace Knauf 
  
  
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, =
2003 9:29=20
  AM

  
Subject: [h-cost] Extant =
Landsknecht=20
  Pants-Wow! Anyone speak Swedish?

  


  
        

    
      
        

  

To =
unsubscribe from=20
  this group, send an email to:
GermanRenCostume-unsubscribe@egroups.com

<=
/FONT>

Your use =
of Yahoo!=20
  Groups is subject to the Yahoo!=20
  Terms of Service. =



  

  


  
_______________________________________________
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mailing=20
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list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 11:22:19 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Landsknecht hat
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I have had a request to make a Landsknecht hat, one of those big
broad-brimmed hats with lots of slashing and feathers.  The only similar
hat I have had a chance to examine up-close was made on a foundation of
one of those broad-brimmed straw hats, which won't work for this
individual (to large a head).  

Can anyone suggest a good resource for a pattern or instructions on how
to make one of these hats.  Or perhaps share your own experiences :).

Thanks,
Catherine
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 11:40:30 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Landsknecht hat
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:35:37 -0700
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Great question!  I am about ready to embark on a similar venture.  Would
you like me to forward your request to the German Ren group?  

I discussed these hats with several folks at Estrella a few weeks ago
and got several pointers.  One of the ladies had thought to put some
'origami' on the top-Do you remember how to make a paper fortune teller?
She took several layers of fabric in a large square (~ 3 times the size
you want) and fold the the corners into the middle, flipped it, and did
the it again.  She then mounted that on a large round brim.  I have
tried it in paper and now have purchased some wool felt to try it on.
The wool felt may be too heavy, but I want to give it a whirl.

I also got my hands on several millinery books and have come to the
decision to go ahead and purchase millinery fabrics to start the base
on.  I think this is one of those times (like corset stiffeners) where
instead of trying all sorts of home substitutes the real thing is the
way to go.  

I am looking forward to hearing everyone else's experiences!

Sg


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Catherine Kinsey
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:22 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Landsknecht hat

I have had a request to make a Landsknecht hat, one of those big
broad-brimmed hats with lots of slashing and feathers.  The only similar
hat I have had a chance to examine up-close was made on a foundation of
one of those broad-brimmed straw hats, which won't work for this
individual (to large a head).  

Can anyone suggest a good resource for a pattern or instructions on how
to make one of these hats.  Or perhaps share your own experiences :).

Thanks,
Catherine
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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=0D
 =0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
 Hi Penny.=0D
=0D
>I am sorry to hear about your arthritis and that you had to cut your hai=
r.=20
Is there someone who can help you do your hair?=0D
=0D
My husband helps me, and sometimes friends do too. I usually wear it tied
back so it is very easy care.=0D
 =0D
>I had a lung collapse in 1990, and my husband has been doing my hair eve=
r
since.  I also had a disk removed from my neck in 2001, so putting my han=
ds
above my hear for more than a couple of seconds is very hard.  The lung
collapse and the neck surgery has left me with a very weak neck and
shoulders.  My sweet husband washes, dries, and dyes my hair for me.  Whe=
n
he isn't available, my little Katie does it.... (not the dying).  She is
always practicing new styles with my long hair.  She calls me her Grown U=
p
Barbie Doll.  I have taught all my sons how to brush and braid my hair.=20
Each one is very careful to thread out knots.  =0D
=0D
You are very lucky to have people who can help you care for it. With me i=
t
was a combination of not being able to reach (my hair was waist length an=
d
is now just past shoulder length), and thyroid problems causing it to thi=
n.
Now that the thyroid issue is largely resolved my hair is coming in full
again and is very healthy. I can usually manage all right, but sometimes
need help brushing out the back and tying it back. Physical trauma can ma=
ke
hair care terribly difficult--I'm glad you found a way around it. I've ne=
ver
dyed my hair--like many natural blondes, I started out bright, darkened i=
n
my 20's and 30's, and am going silver in my 40's, which means my hair is
brightening again.=0D
 =0D
>My mother-in-law was a hairdresser.  One of the best things she instille=
d
in all of us is that it is an honor to work with someone's hair.  My kids=
,
even the grown ones, love my hair.  As children they would sit in my lap =
and
stroke my hair... especially if they were upset about something.  They ha=
ve
never complained about working with it... especially Katie who is always
waiting for the moment for me to ask if she can fix it.        =0D
=0D
That's a lovely thing. :-)=0D
=0D
Arlys
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-------Original Message-------

 Hi Penny.


 


>I am sorry to hear about your arthritis and that you had to cut =
your hair.  Is there someone who can help you do your hair?


 


My husband helps me, and sometimes friends do too. I usually wear it=
 tied back so it is very easy care.


 


>I had a lung collapse in 1990, and my husband has been doing my =
hair ever since.  I also had a disk removed from my neck in 2001, so=
 putting my hands above my hear for more than a couple of seconds is very=
 hard.  The lung collapse and the neck surgery has left me with a ve=
ry weak neck and shoulders.  My sweet husband washes, dries, an=
d dyes my hair for me.  When he isn't available, my little=
 Katie does it.... (not the dying).  She is always pr=
acticing new styles with my long hair.  She calls me her Grown Up Ba=
rbie Doll.  I have taught all my sons how to brush and bra=
id my hair.  Each one is very careful to thread out knots.  

 


You are very lucky to have people who can help you care for it. With=
 me it was a combination of not being able to reach (my hair was waist le=
ngth and is now just past shoulder length), and thyroid problems causing =
it to thin. Now that the thyroid issue is largely resolved my hair is com=
ing in full again and is very healthy. I can usually manage all right, bu=
t sometimes need help brushing out the back and tying it back. Physical t=
rauma can make hair care terribly difficult--I'm glad you found a way aro=
und it. I've never dyed my hair--like many natural blondes, I started out=
 bright, darkened in my 20's and 30's, and am going silver in my 40's, wh=
ich means my hair is brightening again.


 


>My mother-in-law was a hairdresser.  One of the b=
est things she instilled in all of us is that it is an honor to work=
 with someone's hair.  My kids, even the grown ones, love =
my hair.  As children they would sit in my lap and stroke my hair...=
 especially if they were upset about something.  They have never com=
plained about working with it... especially Katie who is always waiting f=
or the moment for me to ask if she can fix it.    &nb=
sp;   


 


That's a lovely thing. :-)


 


Arlys


 












______________________=
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A href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=3D309&lang=3D9">=
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 12:13:17 2003
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Michaela,

have you tried using Tylenol Arthirtis formula? It's an OTC. My doctor
turned me on to it. I don't know how it reacts with steroidals but you
can take it if you are on Vioxx. Amazing stuff. Like you, my RA turns
downright b**chy in the winter and I hurt so much I can hardly do
anything. Until now. HUGE difference. Something you should check out if
you haven't already, and it is safe.

Obligatory costume content: I feel so much better that I think I'm up to
doing some embroidery again and housework is much, much less
intimidating.

Let me know, please.

Arlys (off-list at )

> I only ocasionally actually asked my mum do brush my hair. Probably 
> partly pride but I find when I'm in that much pain I just get dumb 
> and don't even think of asking for help. I don't even up my Anti 
> Inflamatories either . Sadly they are steroidal and NSAIDs just do 
> absolutely nothing to help the RA pain. Helps manage the secondary 
> pain, but not the actual inflamation. I wouldn't say that's the 
> worst part of RA.. I'd say the fact that all my dreams are crushed 
> and will never be is the worst part with the pain a close second. 
> But It's certainly a really annoying factor.
> 
> So... costume costume... yeah I only really get to sew in summer so 
> I have been really busy these last two months trying to get thigns 
> done as I know in a few months I'll be back to barely able to do 
> anything.
> 
> michaela
> http://recital.tripod.com/costume
> On three DMARDs one of which smells like PVA glue, and all of which 
> are supposed to cause hair thinning... sigh


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 13:18:28 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:19:21 -0800
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Heather Rose Jones 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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At 5:09 PM -0500 2/24/03, Penny Ladnier wrote:
>Dianne,
>
>My daughter was born with two white/blonde streaks just above her temples.
>The rest of her hair is a medium brown.  The streaks are about  1" diameter.
>The streaks also have a different texture and are not as curly as the rest
>of her hair.  Some old ladies told me that they used to call these devil
>streaks.  In the summertime, the streaks turn white-white.  Since my
>daughter swims on team the sun really bleaches them out.  She wears her hair
>in one ponytail when she swims and the streaks spread out.  Then everyone
>thinks she is a blonde because the streaks covers her brown hair.

Sounds like a variant on the genetic trait called "white forelock", 
which I've usually seen as a single white streak more centered on the 
forehead.  Has the phenomenon shown up elsewhere in your family tree?

Heather
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Lansknecht pants
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Saragrace wrote:

<>

OK, I've just picked myself up off the floor.

According to what little I could figure out, they're
from the Dresden National Art Collections, and are
from the 1550s. From looking at the large-scale
picture, they're tight hose, chamois or other leather
as the lining, yellow/gold silk as the puffing, and
(everybody better sit down for this) yellow/gold silk
knitted in a variety of patterns on very fine needles.

This has just turned everything I've always thought
about what German men wore upside-down.

Bjarne, is Swedish close enough to Danish that you can
give us an idea of what the caption says? I can
guarantee, people around the world would be very
grateful.

Dawn


=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:05:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Landsknecht hat
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
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You could make your own straw hat, by unpicking the stitching on one
of those straw hats you get at crafts stores and re-sewing it...

-- Mara

--- Catherine Kinsey  wrote:
> I have had a request to make a Landsknecht hat, one of those big
> broad-brimmed hats with lots of slashing and feathers.  The only
> similar
> hat I have had a chance to examine up-close was made on a
> foundation of
> one of those broad-brimmed straw hats, which won't work for this
> individual (to large a head).  


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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:12:53 -0500
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Well, gosh, don't stop with just one of these yummy images, check out
the entire page!
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Mode_start.htm

My personal favs are #6, 7, 12, 18, 24 and 28. Some of them are opera
costumes, which is really fun. Be sure to click on the link at the
bottom of each description to get the enlargement.

Linda


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
Subject: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak Swedish?

If this is triple posted, I apologize-

Someone just sent this to the German Ren Costume group.  It comes from a
set that was sent to us earlier, but I had not looked closely at the
'trunk hose'.
Take a close look at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom of
the page to click on it)
They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, could
you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how they
think the fabric was created!

Sg
www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm





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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 14:15:58 2003
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From: Gwyn Carnegie 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Lansknecht pants
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These pants were discussed in one of the knitting books, for some reason 
Rutt is what's sticking in my head and not Turnau.  I'm sure someone on the 
list will know the reference.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis

At 09:28 AM 2/25/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Saragrace wrote:
><group.  Take a close
>look at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom
>of the page to
>click on it)
>They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you
>speak Swedish,
>could
>you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to
>know how they
>think the fabric was created!>>
>
>OK, I've just picked myself up off the floor.
>
>According to what little I could figure out, they're
>from the Dresden National Art Collections, and are
>from the 1550s. From looking at the large-scale
>picture, they're tight hose, chamois or other leather
>as the lining, yellow/gold silk as the puffing, and
>(everybody better sit down for this) yellow/gold silk
>knitted in a variety of patterns on very fine needles.
>
>This has just turned everything I've always thought
>about what German men wore upside-down.
>
>Bjarne, is Swedish close enough to Danish that you can
>give us an idea of what the caption says? I can
>guarantee, people around the world would be very
>grateful.
>
>Dawn
>=====
>Dawn Jacobson
>Vallejo, CA, USA

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These pants were discussed in one of the knitting books, for some reason
Rutt is what's sticking in my head and not Turnau.  I'm sure someone
on the list will know the reference.


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 


At 09:28 AM 2/25/2003 -0800, you wrote:


Saragrace wrote:

<<Someone just sent this to the German Ren Costume

group.  Take a close

look at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom

of the page to

click on it)

They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you

speak Swedish, 

could

you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to

know how they

think the fabric was created!>>


OK, I've just picked myself up off the floor.


According to what little I could figure out, they're

from the Dresden National Art Collections, and are

from the 1550s. From looking at the large-scale

picture, they're tight hose, chamois or other leather

as the lining, yellow/gold silk as the puffing, and

(everybody better sit down for this) yellow/gold silk

knitted in a variety of patterns on very fine needles.


This has just turned everything I've always thought

about what German men wore upside-down.


Bjarne, is Swedish close enough to Danish that you can

give us an idea of what the caption says? I can

guarantee, people around the world would be very

grateful.


Dawn

=====

Dawn Jacobson

Vallejo, CA, USA



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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 14:24:42 2003
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Saragrace,
Thank you for the offer on forwarding to the German Ren Group, please
do so at your earliest convenience.  I also look forward to hearing how
your hat works out :).  I have a quantity of lightweight pendleton wool
scraps (some fairly big) that might work for something similar

Mara,
thanks for the idea on the hat, it could come in very handy!

Catherine
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 14:27:33 2003
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Bjarne! Bjarne! That is so beautiful!

I am very thankful for the internet, because I can see something so lovely.

Gail Finke


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 14:37:18 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Lansknecht pants
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Go to the bottom of the page and click on the link dresden1.jpg

liz

catpurson@juno.com wrote:

>        I have tried everything short of blowing up the computer to get
>the pictures larger.  How on earth did you do it?
>
>Lalah
>Never give up, Never surrender
>_______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 14:41:51 2003
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From: Jacobson Dawn 
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Subject: [h-cost] Lions of Fashion--Men's Costume of the 16th-18th C.
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Success! A little tracking down, and a couple of lucky
hunches paid off.

The Royal Armoury, Stockholm, is currently hosting a
major exhibition entitled, "The Lions of of Fashion:
Men's Costume of the 16th, 17th and 18th Centuries."
They've pulled stuff from 3 major collections,
including the Rustkammer in Dresden (this is the
collection of clothing worn by the Electors of
Saxony). The gold knit German hose are from this
collection. The exhibition is running now through
June, 2003.

The really great news is that they've produced a
catalog of the exhibition in ENGLISH! I haven't found
out how much it is yet, but I'm definitely going to
get a copy; according to the "blurb" on the web site,
it's designed to be "useful long after the exhibition
closes," with essays on the clothing of this period by
several big-league clothing historians.

You can check out the information on the exhibition at

http://www.lhs.se/livrustkammaner/

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Landsknecht Hat
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:41:03 -0700
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I have forwarded the request, but it occurred to me that to enjoy the
discussion you might want to consider joining that group.  They are a
friendly bunch and have lots to talk about!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GermanRenCostume/
 
 
Sg
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Catherine Kinsey
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:24 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Landsknecht Hat
 
Saragrace,
Thank you for the offer on forwarding to the German Ren Group, please
do so at your earliest convenience.  I also look forward to hearing how
your hat works out :).  I have a quantity of lightweight pendleton wool
scraps (some fairly big) that might work for something similar
 
Mara,
thanks for the idea on the hat, it could come in very handy!
 
Catherine
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I have forwarded the request, but it occurred =
to me
that to enjoy the discussion you might want to consider joining that
group.  They are a friendly =
bunch
and have lots to talk about!  =
http://groups.ya=
hoo.com/group/GermanRenCostume/



 



 



Sg



 



 



-----Original
Message-----

From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] =
On
Behalf Of Catherine Kinsey

Sent: Tuesday, February
 25, 2003 11:24 =
AM

To: h-costume@indra.com

Subject: [h-cost] Landsknecht Hat



 



Saragrace,



Thank
you for the offer on forwarding to the German Ren Group, =
please



do
so at your earliest convenience.  =
I
also look forward to hearing how



your
hat works out :).  I have a =
quantity
of lightweight pendleton wool



scraps
(some fairly big) that might work for something =
similar



 



Mara,



thanks
for the idea on the hat, it could come in very =
handy!



 



Catherine



______________________________________________=
_



h-costume
mailing list



h-costume@mail.indra.com



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me









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        Never mind.  Linda gave the answer and I found the link.  Thanks

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Saragrace wrote:

<>

Uh, our very own Kayta built one of the (if not the)
very first "German origami pizza hats" (aka the
square-crowned baret) for Carl Ontis in 1981 (if it's
the red one, I have a photo of it). Kayta was kind
enough to share how to make this type of hat with me
last April; perhaps she can be prevailed upon to share
that information.

Please?  ;-)

Dawn

=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:02:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Mara Riley 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
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Opera costumes?  Ok, how do we tell which ones are existing items,
and which ones are costumes?

-- Mara

--- Linda Rice  wrote:
> Well, gosh, don't stop with just one of these yummy images, check
> out
> the entire page!
> http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Mode_start.htm
> 
> My personal favs are #6, 7, 12, 18, 24 and 28. Some of them are
> opera
> costumes, which is really fun. Be sure to click on the link at the
> bottom of each description to get the enlargement.
> 
> Linda


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From: "Lyn Greaves- home" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <20030225184141.819.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lions of Fashion--Men's Costume of the 16th-18th C.
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:13:12 -0500
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Can't get the link to work- it tells me it's broken.  Where do I go from the
Education page?  (English-YEAH!)


Lyn Greaves
Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton
COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacobson Dawn" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Lions of Fashion--Men's Costume of the 16th-18th C.


> Success! A little tracking down, and a couple of lucky
> hunches paid off.
>
> The Royal Armoury, Stockholm, is currently hosting a
> major exhibition entitled, "The Lions of of Fashion:
> Men's Costume of the 16th, 17th and 18th Centuries."
> They've pulled stuff from 3 major collections,
> including the Rustkammer in Dresden (this is the
> collection of clothing worn by the Electors of
> Saxony). The gold knit German hose are from this
> collection. The exhibition is running now through
> June, 2003.
>
> The really great news is that they've produced a
> catalog of the exhibition in ENGLISH! I haven't found
> out how much it is yet, but I'm definitely going to
> get a copy; according to the "blurb" on the web site,
> it's designed to be "useful long after the exhibition
> closes," with essays on the clothing of this period by
> several big-league clothing historians.
>
> You can check out the information on the exhibition at
>
> http://www.lhs.se/livrustkammaner/
>
> Dawn
>
> =====
> Dawn Jacobson
> Vallejo, CA, USA
>
> Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
> --Dalai Lama
> _______________________________________________
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>


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Lansknecht pants
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        I have tried everything short of blowing up the computer to get
the pictures larger.  How on earth did you do it?

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
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Subject: [h-cost] extant Landsknecht Pants translation
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Hi!
I have just printed out the swedish text. Ill translate it for you ass sooon
as i can.
Sorry, for being late, but my jacket kept me buisy!

Bjarne
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:50:10 -0500
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Hi Mara!
Well, on #28, the description reads:
Dräkt för kartagensare, möjligen från operan "Aeneas i Carthago" 1799.
Rosersbergs Slott.

I admit that I can't read/speak Swedish or Danish, but I would hazard a
guess that 'operan' means opera and "Aeneas I Carthago" is the name of
the opera?
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild28.htm

I'd really like to know the 'motiv' for this one:
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild18.htm
It reminds me of Drea's Penthesilea costume of a few years back!

Even if a few of these images are costume-costumes, the workmanship and
details on all of them are extraordinary. I'd love to see someone make a
suit like #7. Oh Bjarne??? ;o> 
~Linda


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Mara Riley
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:03 PM
To: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
Century
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak
Swedish?

Opera costumes?  Ok, how do we tell which ones are existing items,
and which ones are costumes?

-- Mara

--- Linda Rice  wrote:
> Well, gosh, don't stop with just one of these yummy images, check
> out
> the entire page!
> http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Mode_start.htm
> 
> My personal favs are #6, 7, 12, 18, 24 and 28. Some of them are
> opera
> costumes, which is really fun. Be sure to click on the link at the
> bottom of each description to get the enlargement.
> 
> Linda


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The website is in english to
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/Thehela.htm

Greetings,
        Deredere

Linda Rice wrote:

>Hi Mara!
>Well, on #28, the description reads:
>Dräkt för kartagensare, möjligen från operan "Aeneas i Carthago" 1799.
>Rosersbergs Slott.
>
>I admit that I can't read/speak Swedish or Danish, but I would hazard a
>guess that 'operan' means opera and "Aeneas I Carthago" is the name of
>the opera?
>http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild28.htm
>
>I'd really like to know the 'motiv' for this one:
>http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild18.htm
>It reminds me of Drea's Penthesilea costume of a few years back!
>
>Even if a few of these images are costume-costumes, the workmanship and
>details on all of them are extraordinary. I'd love to see someone make a
>suit like #7. Oh Bjarne??? ;o> 
>~Linda
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
>On Behalf Of Mara Riley
>Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:03 PM
>To: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
>Century
>Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak
>Swedish?
>
>Opera costumes?  Ok, how do we tell which ones are existing items,
>and which ones are costumes?
>
>-- Mara
>
>--- Linda Rice  wrote:
>  
>
>>Well, gosh, don't stop with just one of these yummy images, check
>>out
>>the entire page!
>>http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Mode_start.htm
>>
>>My personal favs are #6, 7, 12, 18, 24 and 28. Some of them are
>>opera
>>costumes, which is really fun. Be sure to click on the link at the
>>bottom of each description to get the enlargement.
>>
>>Linda
>>    
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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>
>
>
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>  
>


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The website is in english to

http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/Thehela.htm



Greetings,

        Deredere



Linda Rice wrote:



  
Hi Mara!
Well, on #28, the description reads:
Dräkt för kartagensare, möjligen från operan "Aeneas i Carthago" 1799.
Rosersbergs Slott.

I admit that I can't read/speak Swedish or Danish, but I would hazard a
guess that 'operan' means opera and "Aeneas I Carthago" is the name of
the opera?
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild28.htm

I'd really like to know the 'motiv' for this one:
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild18.htm
It reminds me of Drea's Penthesilea costume of a few years back!

Even if a few of these images are costume-costumes, the workmanship and
details on all of them are extraordinary. I'd love to see someone make a
suit like #7. Oh Bjarne??? ;o> 
~Linda


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Mara Riley
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:03 PM
To: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
Century
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak
Swedish?

Opera costumes?  Ok, how do we tell which ones are existing items,
and which ones are costumes?

-- Mara

--- Linda Rice <vmaa2@cox.net> wrote:
  

  

    
Well, gosh, don't stop with just one of these yummy images, check
out
the entire page!
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Mode_start.htm

My personal favs are #6, 7, 12, 18, 24 and 28. Some of them are
opera
costumes, which is really fun. Be sure to click on the link at the
bottom of each description to get the enlargement.

Linda
    

  

  


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 16:10:50 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:10:55 +0100
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Subject: [h-cost] swedish translation
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Ok here it goes:

Kurfürst August of Sachsen's knitted silk stockings 1552-55.
In the Prins' inventory from 1555 they are deskribed as " A pair of knitted
spanish hosen with a codpiece" The word "spanish"  comes from the fashions
origin with its cut and way of fashion. Please notice the padded codpiece.
In the 1500 the european royal fashion expressed a dynamic male magtbud.
Knitted silkwear was a part of the royal dress in this century when the mans
breeches was devided in stockings and breeches. The silk stockings was the
hight of luxury and silk was made to orders of  regulations.

The spanish courtceremonies diktated bodymovements wich gave the right
movements. These became important for royal and courtly manners. The times
new meticulous courtdanses was performed by the prince himself, the knitted
silk clothes revealed the bodys smothness and the persons elegance.

The picture may be used, if you revel the source, and the photographers name
must be given.

I did the best i could to translate this, there may be other words wich
could have ben better.

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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Oops!

Not the picture part.
I could swear I read it in english.
But that's maby because swedish looks a little like a mixture of 
different languages.
Or the other way around....

Greetings,
        Deredere

Deredere Galbraith wrote:

> The website is in english to
> http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/Thehela.htm
>
> Greetings,
>         Deredere
>
> Linda Rice wrote:
>
>>Hi Mara!
>>Well, on #28, the description reads:
>>Dräkt för kartagensare, möjligen från operan "Aeneas i Carthago" 1799.
>>Rosersbergs Slott.
>>
>>I admit that I can't read/speak Swedish or Danish, but I would hazard a
>>guess that 'operan' means opera and "Aeneas I Carthago" is the name of
>>the opera?
>>http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild28.htm
>>
>>I'd really like to know the 'motiv' for this one:
>>http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild18.htm
>>It reminds me of Drea's Penthesilea costume of a few years back!
>>
>>Even if a few of these images are costume-costumes, the workmanship and
>>details on all of them are extraordinary. I'd love to see someone make a
>>suit like #7. Oh Bjarne??? ;o> 
>>~Linda
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
>>On Behalf Of Mara Riley
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:03 PM
>>To: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
>>Century
>>Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak
>>Swedish?
>>
>>Opera costumes?  Ok, how do we tell which ones are existing items,
>>and which ones are costumes?
>>
>>-- Mara
>>
>>--- Linda Rice  wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>Well, gosh, don't stop with just one of these yummy images, check
>>>out
>>>the entire page!
>>>http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Mode_start.htm
>>>
>>>My personal favs are #6, 7, 12, 18, 24 and 28. Some of them are
>>>opera
>>>costumes, which is really fun. Be sure to click on the link at the
>>>bottom of each description to get the enlargement.
>>>
>>>Linda
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
>>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>>_______________________________________________
>>h-costume mailing list
>>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>h-costume mailing list
>>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>>  
>>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Oops!



Not the picture part.

I could swear I read it in english.

But that's maby because swedish looks a little like a mixture of different
languages.

Or the other way around....



Greetings,

        Deredere



Deredere Galbraith wrote:



  
       The website is in english to

 http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/Thehela.htm

 

 Greetings,

         Deredere

 

 Linda Rice wrote:

 
  
   
    
Hi Mara!
Well, on #28, the description reads:
Dräkt för kartagensare, möjligen från operan "Aeneas i Carthago" 1799.
Rosersbergs Slott.

I admit that I can't read/speak Swedish or Danish, but I would hazard a
guess that 'operan' means opera and "Aeneas I Carthago" is the name of
the opera?
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild28.htm

I'd really like to know the 'motiv' for this one:
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild18.htm
It reminds me of Drea's Penthesilea costume of a few years back!

Even if a few of these images are costume-costumes, the workmanship and
details on all of them are extraordinary. I'd love to see someone make a
suit like #7. Oh Bjarne??? ;o> 
~Linda


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Mara Riley
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:03 PM
To: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
Century
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak
Swedish?

Opera costumes?  Ok, how do we tell which ones are existing items,
and which ones are costumes?

-- Mara

--- Linda Rice <vmaa2@cox.net> wrote:
  

   
    
     
      
Well, gosh, don't stop with just one of these yummy images, check
out
the entire page!
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Mode_start.htm

My personal favs are #6, 7, 12, 18, 24 and 28. Some of them are
opera
costumes, which is really fun. Be sure to click on the link at the
bottom of each description to get the enlargement.

Linda
    

   

   
    


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 16:22:44 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Hello.
I want to thank you all for all your wonderfull words you have send me for
my embroidery.
Today i have worked very hard on the jacket, and this evening i put it on
the dresstand with the waistcoat, i pinned on all the buttons and pinned the
pocketflaps to it, and although the sleaves is not attached yeat, i was very
surprised to se the work. It looks gorgeous. This is the work of 4 years
coming to pay off. Whow! Ill post some pictures for you to se tomorrow.
This is the peak of my skills, i have never done anything that beautifull
before.
But i have a little dilemma.
It is about the pockets. If i am to make real pockets, then i have to cut
some of the embroidery, and i wouldnt like that, but on the other hand it
wont heart the embroidery because it is sewed to the pocket.
What do you think? Should i just add the pocketflaps and dont make any
pockets, or should i go the whole way!
I would like to hear what you think!
Thanks for participating my work

Bjarne

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 17:09:48 2003
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From: "Rowena" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <20030225184141.819.qmail@web80104.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lions of Fashion--Men's Costume of the 16th-18th C.
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:10:31 -0500
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I found
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/English/Pages/Catalouge_shop.htm

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jacobson Dawn" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Lions of Fashion--Men's Costume of the 16th-18th C.


> Success! A little tracking down, and a couple of lucky
> hunches paid off.
> 
> The Royal Armoury, Stockholm, is currently hosting a
> major exhibition entitled, "The Lions of of Fashion:
> Men's Costume of the 16th, 17th and 18th Centuries."
> They've pulled stuff from 3 major collections,
> including the Rustkammer in Dresden (this is the
> collection of clothing worn by the Electors of
> Saxony). The gold knit German hose are from this
> collection. The exhibition is running now through
> June, 2003.
> 
> The really great news is that they've produced a
> catalog of the exhibition in ENGLISH! I haven't found
> out how much it is yet, but I'm definitely going to
> get a copy; according to the "blurb" on the web site,
> it's designed to be "useful long after the exhibition
> closes," with essays on the clothing of this period by
> several big-league clothing historians.
> 
> You can check out the information on the exhibition at
> 
> http://www.lhs.se/livrustkammaner/
> 
> Dawn
> 
> =====
> Dawn Jacobson
> Vallejo, CA, USA
> 
> Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
> --Dalai Lama
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 17:10:10 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:09:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Mara Riley 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
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Oh, I see!  I hadn't looked at that one.  Hm...

http://alessandrina.librari.beniculturali.it/eventi/cult2001/eneide/enearism.html

It would have been interesting to see such a thing performed in
period fashion!

-- Mara

--- Linda Rice  wrote:
> Hi Mara!
> Well, on #28, the description reads:
> Dräkt för kartagensare, möjligen från operan "Aeneas i Carthago"
> 1799.
> Rosersbergs Slott.


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> I found
> http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/English/Pages/Catalouge_shop.htm

Ok, I gave up and emailed the shop manager,  asking about the price and
ordering information.

Now, who lives near there who could put us all up when we come to drool?
Rowena

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 17:34:03 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:31:53 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Lansknecht hat
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>Uh, our very own Kayta built one of the (if not the)
>very first "German origami pizza hats" (aka the
>square-crowned baret) for Carl Ontis in 1981 (if it's
>the red one, I have a photo of it). Kayta was kind
>enough to share how to make this type of hat with me
>last April; perhaps she can be prevailed upon to share
>that information.
>
>Please?  ;-)

Sure.  It was for Karl and Elizabeth's wedding, and they couldn't figure 
out how I made my hat, so they 'imported' me to sew hats for the wedding 
party.  I made my first one of these in the mid-70s, as it was, and 
remains, my basic SCA period.

How shall I get this info to people?  The 'origami top' idea comes from a 
Durer, and I can include that image, or a pointer to it.

Kayta

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:25:20 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
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>Someone just sent this to the German Ren Costume group.  Take a close look 
>at the big picture (you have to go to the bottom of the page to click on it)
>
>They almost look like they are knit!  If any of you speak Swedish, could 
>you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how they think 
>the fabric was created!

Knitted. Really.  They're in Mr. Rutt's book on the history of 
hand-knitting too.


Kayta

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
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Hello Bjarne,

     I don't remember if there are any extant 18thC coats with just the flaps 
and no pockets.  But I think a gentleman in an embroidered suit would have a 
servant to carry things for him so he wouldn't have to use his pockets. :-)

     -Carol


> It is about the pockets. If i am to make real pockets, then i have to cut
> some of the embroidery, and i wouldnt like that, but on the other hand it
> wont heart the embroidery because it is sewed to the pocket.
> What do you think? Should i just add the pocketflaps and dont make any
> pockets, or should i go the whole way!
> I would like to hear what you think!
> Thanks for participating my work

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 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > 
> It is about the pockets. If i am to make real pockets, then i have to cut
> some of the embroidery, and i wouldnt like that, but on the other hand it
> wont heart the embroidery because it is sewed to the pocket.
> What do you think? Should i just add the pocketflaps and dont make any
> pockets, or should i go the whole way!
> I would like to hear what you think!

Personally, my dear, I would go the whole nine yards. Fake pocket flaps are in
my opinion just a short cut, something I did when I didn't know how to make
them, didn't have time, etc. Real pockets, just as they were, I think is the
way to go in a suit of such incredible quality, which took you four years.
My only question though is, why do you have to cut some of the embroidery?
Weren't the originals made so that the slit of the pocket is where there is no
embroidery? I am cofused.

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 18:07:45 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
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 --- aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > Hello Bjarne,
> 
>      I don't remember if there are any extant 18thC coats with just the flaps
> 

I can't think of any (but it's not my main period) there certainly aren't any
in my main period.

Nicole

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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 18:17:55 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <200302252200.h1PM0Vtb020164@jefferson.patriot.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:17:22 +0100
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Hi.
Yes you are right, but i am only a retro gentleman, and i dont have a
servant.
I examined real coats at the danish national museum, they all had real
pockets. Even the fine embroidered waistcoats had small pockets, and the
fine embroidery were cut the places where they had to make buttonholes. Well
i only made the pocket flaps at the waistcoat, because i dont have need for
such small pockets.
But it would be handy to have real pockets in the jacket.
Also because i really think i have to wear a small sissors in the pocket,
because all the small gilted rough purl threads has little little tiny hooks
and they could easy go into the embroidery, and  then i would be hooked up.
Therefore i have desided, i really need to have a sissor ready if i get
tangled. Purl is gold thread rolled round a coil so it gets hollow inside,
and you cut it out in the lenghts you like and sew on like pearls. But each
cut of purl has two ends wich very easy catches things...............
What happends is the purl is pulled out into a long tiny tiny thread, and
then the space where it was placed suddently is empty. :-(
I gues i have to update my embroidery every time i have used it ;-)

 Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: "Re-creating period costume@patriot.net, from the Bronzeage to
themid-20th Century" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!


> Hello Bjarne,
>
>      I don't remember if there are any extant 18thC coats with just the
flaps
> and no pockets.  But I think a gentleman in an embroidered suit would have
a
> servant to carry things for him so he wouldn't have to use his pockets.
:-)
>
>      -Carol
>
>
> > It is about the pockets. If i am to make real pockets, then i have to
cut
> > some of the embroidery, and i wouldnt like that, but on the other hand
it
> > wont heart the embroidery because it is sewed to the pocket.
> > What do you think? Should i just add the pocketflaps and dont make any
> > pockets, or should i go the whole way!
> > I would like to hear what you think!
> > Thanks for participating my work
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 18:22:58 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] swedish translation
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:20:45 -0700
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Looks pretty darn good to me!  Thanks!

Sg


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:11 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] swedish translation

Ok here it goes:

Kurfürst August of Sachsen's knitted silk stockings 1552-55.
In the Prins' inventory from 1555 they are deskribed as " A pair of
knitted
spanish hosen with a codpiece" The word "spanish"  comes from the
fashions
origin with its cut and way of fashion. Please notice the padded
codpiece.
In the 1500 the european royal fashion expressed a dynamic male magtbud.
Knitted silkwear was a part of the royal dress in this century when the
mans
breeches was devided in stockings and breeches. The silk stockings was
the
hight of luxury and silk was made to orders of  regulations.

The spanish courtceremonies diktated bodymovements wich gave the right
movements. These became important for royal and courtly manners. The
times
new meticulous courtdanses was performed by the prince himself, the
knitted
silk clothes revealed the bodys smothness and the persons elegance.

The picture may be used, if you revel the source, and the photographers
name
must be given.

I did the best i could to translate this, there may be other words wich
could have ben better.

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 18:40:16 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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References: <20030225220615.26811.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
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Dear Nicole.
May i also congratulate you with your Auntie title ;-) I am pleased for your
sake.
Yes you are absolutely right, off cause i am going to make real pockets.
It is the breadth of my embroidery. I think the whole embroidery line is
about 12 m wide all way down, and therefore there would not be any empty
space i could place the flaps. It is only about 5 cm of embroidery i have to
make a slit into. But it wont show because the flaps will cover the space i
have cut.
>From center front line to the back seam is 24 cm. This only gives 12
centimeter free space, and my pocket flap is 18 cm. wide. And i want to
place it 5 cm. from the center front line. I suppose the pocket is going to
be 16 cm. wide, so i really have to cut some of the embroidery.
Real coats also had to make a slit into their embroidery.
The professional embroiderers did not make any marks for the pockets.
Did you also se any of those real garments?
I was very surprised to se that the jacket sides where the pleats sits had
embroidery into the pleated parts. Why on earths name did they do that?
The embroidery wont show there inside the pleats?
But i saw 4 jackets who had that. The lady who showed me their collection
didnt know either. It was a mystery she said. Could this be because the
embroiderers had made two much embroidery and they would not waste it, so
they put it into the pleats?

Thanks for giving me a kick!

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"

Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!


> --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: >
> > It is about the pockets. If i am to make real pockets, then i have to
cut
> > some of the embroidery, and i wouldnt like that, but on the other hand
it
> > wont heart the embroidery because it is sewed to the pocket.
> > What do you think? Should i just add the pocketflaps and dont make any
> > pockets, or should i go the whole way!
> > I would like to hear what you think!
>
> Personally, my dear, I would go the whole nine yards. Fake pocket flaps
are in
> my opinion just a short cut, something I did when I didn't know how to
make
> them, didn't have time, etc. Real pockets, just as they were, I think is
the
> way to go in a suit of such incredible quality, which took you four years.
> My only question though is, why do you have to cut some of the embroidery?
> Weren't the originals made so that the slit of the pocket is where there
is no
> embroidery? I am cofused.
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> "Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 18:50:03 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <20030225190234.9189.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:50:30 +0100
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Hi.
I remember some years back in time. They showed an opera in the swedish
television from the old Drotningholm Theater. It has the old machinery from
18th century with handworked machinery for the stages and scenes.
They showed a baroque opera in period costumes, it was incredible
beautifull, i never forget that.
Unfortunately it was before i had a videorecorder :-(

Bjarne

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mara Riley" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"

Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak Swedish?


> Opera costumes?  Ok, how do we tell which ones are existing items,
> and which ones are costumes?
>
> -- Mara
>
> --- Linda Rice  wrote:
> > Well, gosh, don't stop with just one of these yummy images, check
> > out
> > the entire page!
> > http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Mode_start.htm
> >
> > My personal favs are #6, 7, 12, 18, 24 and 28. Some of them are
> > opera
> > costumes, which is really fun. Be sure to click on the link at the
> > bottom of each description to get the enlargement.
> >
> > Linda
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <200302252200.h1PM0Vtb020164@jefferson.patriot.net>
	<010c01c2dd1a$ca467ae0$a64222d9@dan>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:57:45 +0100
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Hi Stevie!
You dont have to, i just got some kicks from Nicole, and it helped a lot.
Off cause she is right, now i have gone that far, i must go further.
But if you are going to bring a little reticule, my scissors perhaps could
have a place there?
Are you able to take photographs? Ill bring my digital camera along, and it
would be lovely, if you could take some pics, i will take some of you in
deed!
Hope not you would mind if i posted them on my websites!
Are you going to accomodate yourself in Bath? Or are you  taking a night
train back to London?
This week i am going to look for a hotel in Bath.

Bjarne

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"

Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!


> Carol wrote: re Bjarne's  little dilemma!
>
> >      I don't remember if there are any extant 18thC coats with just
> the flaps
> > and no pockets.  But I think a gentleman in an embroidered suit
> would have a
> > servant to carry things for him so he wouldn't have to use his
> pockets. :-)
> >
>
> Well, in default of a servant I'll volunteer; at least for the suit's
> first outing:-)
>
> best wishes
> Stevie
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 19:11:01 2003
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
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Carol wrote: re Bjarne's  little dilemma!

>      I don't remember if there are any extant 18thC coats with just
the flaps
> and no pockets.  But I think a gentleman in an embroidered suit
would have a
> servant to carry things for him so he wouldn't have to use his
pockets. :-)
>

Well, in default of a servant I'll volunteer; at least for the suit's
first outing:-)

best wishes
Stevie

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 19:51:13 2003
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From: Heather Meadows 
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it's just GORGEOUS, bjarne!  I showed some non-costumers yesterday
and they could not imagine that a human did that with their hands.  I 
had
to walk them through your site, they just didn't believe me.

Why would you have to cut the embroidery to add pockets but not to
add pocket flaps?  I can't imagine that, but perhaps you could draw
a diagram?

.heather.


On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:

> Hello.
> I want to thank you all for all your wonderfull words you have send me 
> for
> my embroidery.
> Today i have worked very hard on the jacket, and this evening i put it 
> on
> the dresstand with the waistcoat, i pinned on all the buttons and 
> pinned the
> pocketflaps to it, and although the sleaves is not attached yeat, i 
> was very
> surprised to se the work. It looks gorgeous. This is the work of 4 
> years
> coming to pay off. Whow! Ill post some pictures for you to se tomorrow.
> This is the peak of my skills, i have never done anything that 
> beautifull
> before.
> But i have a little dilemma.
> It is about the pockets. If i am to make real pockets, then i have to 
> cut
> some of the embroidery, and i wouldnt like that, but on the other hand 
> it
> wont heart the embroidery because it is sewed to the pocket.
> What do you think? Should i just add the pocketflaps and dont make any
> pockets, or should i go the whole way!
> I would like to hear what you think!
> Thanks for participating my work
>
> Bjarne
>
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 20:01:17 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:01:40 -0700
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Subject: [h-cost] New Textile Technology-smell in your clothes!
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Just heard on the news that scientists have figured out how to 'weave'
smell into your clothes!  The 'smell' particles are activated by
movement and heat and are waterproof.  So you can machine wash the
fabric!

What will they think of next?

Sg


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 20:08:41 2003
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From: "mls" 
To: 
References: <200302252200.h1PM0Vtb020164@jefferson.patriot.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!/servant
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:07:56 -0600
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>  But I think a gentleman in an embroidered suit would have a
> servant to carry things for him so he wouldn't have to use his pockets.
:-)
>

Ahh.....such a gentleman's gentleman would have terribly correct (simply but
lovely) clothing too....So Bjarne, you'd have to cloth the servant, too!

....marie

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 20:15:04 2003
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I hope no one decides to use this for REALLY
authentic costumes.

*gag*

.heather.


On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 04:01 PM, Saragrace Knauf wrote:

> Just heard on the news that scientists have figured out how to 'weave'
> smell into your clothes!  The 'smell' particles are activated by
> movement and heat and are waterproof.  So you can machine wash the
> fabric!
>
> What will they think of next?
>
> Sg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 20:47:45 2003
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From: "Ashley Wells" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] original hair question, second try
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:47:46 -0500
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Try below shoulder length, and put it up in a twist with hair sticks or
a long pronged "comb", or a bun with the front a bit soft and "puffy"
with the same implements to hold it in place, or a French braid and
chignon, or....  I've found that this is most versatile for my 21st
century professional look, as well as almost all re-enacting periods.
It takes only a few minutes a day to do whatever (less than 5 to put up
after drying), requires no goop - just wash, detangle, quickie blowdry
and brush, twist, and skewer - lots less than styling with bangs,
layers, etc., and can be casual, elegant, or whatever.  Best of luck.

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:00 AM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] original hair question, second try

The original question was about style suggestions for my immanent
haircut.

Length - long enough to put up for 1880s-1900s, but not so short I have
to 
wear a wig (shoulder length?).

Bangs/fringe - no, because it needs to be long enough in front to do 
1850s-1860s without styling goop.

Stylishness factor - stylish enough that I don't look like a fossilized 
Hippie, (for job interviews) but not so trendy that I look like I'm
trying 
to be 20 years old again.

Care factor - low maintenance, such that I don't need to set it,
blow-dry 
it, put goop on it, etc. to keep it looking good.

My thoughts so far:

1.)  Shoulder length all around, such that the hair right over the back
of 
my neck is about 4 inches long, with one braid in front on each side of
a 
center part, the ends of which also reach my shoulders, to give some
extra 
length in front if I need it for 1840s or Renaissance.  (Is this too
weird?)

2.)  Shoulder length all around, usually parted on the side, and who
cares 
if the sides are different lengths during the occasional 1850s center 
parting.  (Is this too boring?)

3.)  Shave it all off, and become a nun.

Kayta

    //// \\\
   ////-@@\\\
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      )   ((((((
/----\   /---\))

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 21:16:44 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:16:39 -0700
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Thought some of you might be interested.
 
Sg
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Fashionreporting@aol.com [mailto:Fashionreporting@aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:01 PM
To: saragrace@earthlink.net
Subject: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
 
We're getting ready to launch Vintage Fashion, a brand new magazine
covering the business of costume and historical / vintage apparel and
textiles.  Each issue will feature interviews with major costume
designers, museum curators, educators, and apparel/textile historians,
as well as book reviews, costume/vintage-oriented travel opportunities,
and technical information on conserving and making apparel, costumes and
accessories.  We'll also be interviewing specialty retailers and vintage
clothing dealers, antique textile dealers, collectors and auction
houses, and we'll be reporting on international news and business
developments. 

Please send us a name and mailing address for a complimentary first
issue; if you send us 5 names and addresses of colleagues and friends
who are also working in or interested in the field of costumes and
vintage/historical apparel, they'll also get the first issue free and
you'll get the first 6 issues free - and if you send us 10 or more names
and addresses, you'll get the first year free. 

We'd also like to hear from you about the kinds of articles you'd be
interested in. We know there's a real need for a magazine to address
this community and we want to make sure we meet those needs. 

Please be sure to include the following when you provide us with mailing
addresses: 
Name 
Address 
Work OR home phone (whichever you'd prefer) 
Email 
Relationship to vintage apparel and costume - designer, maker, curator,
dealer, collector, educator, etc. 

Thank you! 
Julia 
editor-in-chief 
Vintage Fashion Magazine 
fashionreporting@aol.com

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C2DCFA.0AA81EC0
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Thought some of you might be =
interested.



 






Sg






 






-----Original Message-----

From: =
Fashionreporting@aol.com
[mailto:Fashionreporting@aol.com] 

Sent: =
Tuesday, February 25, =
2003 6:01 PM

To: =
saragrace@earthlink.net

Subject: new magazine for
costume/vintage business community



 



We're getting ready to launch Vintage Fashion, a brand new =
magazine
covering the business of costume and
historical / vintage apparel and textiles.  Each issue =
will
feature interviews with major costume designers, museum curators, =
educators,
and apparel/textile historians, as well as book reviews,
costume/vintage-oriented travel opportunities, and technical information =
on
conserving and making apparel, costumes and accessories.  We'll =
also be
interviewing specialty retailers and vintage clothing dealers, antique =
textile
dealers, collectors and auction houses, and we'll be reporting on =
international
news and business developments. 



Please send us a name and mailing address for a complimentary first =
issue; if
you send us 5 names and addresses of colleagues and friends who are also
working in or interested in the field of costumes and vintage/historical
apparel, they'll also get the first issue free and you'll get the first =
6
issues free - and if you send us 10 or more names and addresses, you'll =
get the
first year free. 



We'd also like to hear from you about the kinds of articles you'd be =
interested
in. We know there's a real need for a magazine to address this community =
and we
want to make sure we meet those needs. 



Please be sure to include the following when you provide us with mailing
addresses: 

Name 

Address 

Work OR home phone (whichever you'd prefer) 

Email 

Relationship to vintage apparel and costume - designer, maker, curator, =
dealer,
collector, educator, etc. 



Thank you! 

Julia 

editor-in-chief 

Vintage =
Fashion
Magazine 

fashionreporting@aol.com












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_______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 21:24:38 2003
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From: AlbertCat@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:24:39 EST
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
To: h-costume@indra.com
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In a message dated 2/25/2003 6:52:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
alice@wonderland.com writes:


> Why would you have to cut the embroidery to add pockets but not to
> add pocket flaps?  I can't imagine that, but perhaps you could draw
> a diagram?
> 

I was wondering too. Y'know, the pocket "mouth" need not be any bigger than 
to get your hand comfortably in them. [I make 'em a1" to 2" shorter than the 
flap and only about 1" deep] They don't have to be the width of the flap 
since the flap is stitched on to cover the mouth, not set into it like a 
welt. At least on all the 18th century coats I've seen, the flaps were made 
up separately and stitched on top of the coat covering a smaller pocket 
mouth. This means, unless you've embroidered under where the pocket flap goes 
[???] you shouldn't have to cut embroidery to make a pocket.

Were you thinking you had to set the flap into the pocket mouth?

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In a message dated 2/25/2003 6:52:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, al=
ice@wonderland.com writes:






Why would you have to cut the e=
mbroidery to add pockets but not to

add pocket flaps?  I can't imagine that, but perhaps you could draw

a diagram?






I was wondering too. Y'know, the pocket "mouth" need not be any bigger than=20=
to get your hand comfortably in them. [I make 'em a1" to 2" shorter than the=
 flap and only about 1" deep] They don't have to be the width of the flap si=
nce the flap is stitched on to cover the mouth, not set into it like a welt.=
 At least on all the 18th century coats I've seen, the flaps were made up se=
parately and stitched on top of the coat covering a smaller pocket mouth. Th=
is means, unless you've embroidered under where the pocket flap goes [???] y=
ou shouldn't have to cut embroidery to make a pocket.



Were you thinking you had to set the flap into the pocket mouth?

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 21:35:33 2003
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From: "chiara" 
To: "h-costume" 
References: <000901c2dd34$b706f6c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:40:14 -0600
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Do they have a website or a write up of their magazine somewhere that we can
read. It is just very strange to see something that is asking for the
personal information of 5 of your friends for this or 10 for that. They want
a phone number?!? Forgive my suspicion but I would like more information, I
apologize if I am the only one who does not know who they are or why they
need a phone number.

Also, Vintage Fashion is an old magazine name, you can go on Ebay and buy
old copies of it. Is it the same company come back?

Chiara

----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community


> Thought some of you might be interested.
>
> Sg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fashionreporting@aol.com [mailto:Fashionreporting@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:01 PM
> To: saragrace@earthlink.net
> Subject: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
>
> We're getting ready to launch Vintage Fashion, a brand new magazine
> covering the business of costume and historical / vintage apparel and
> textiles.  Each issue will feature interviews with major costume
> designers, museum curators, educators, and apparel/textile historians,
> as well as book reviews, costume/vintage-oriented travel opportunities,
> and technical information on conserving and making apparel, costumes and
> accessories.  We'll also be interviewing specialty retailers and vintage
> clothing dealers, antique textile dealers, collectors and auction
> houses, and we'll be reporting on international news and business
> developments.
>
> Please send us a name and mailing address for a complimentary first
> issue; if you send us 5 names and addresses of colleagues and friends
> who are also working in or interested in the field of costumes and
> vintage/historical apparel, they'll also get the first issue free and
> you'll get the first 6 issues free - and if you send us 10 or more names
> and addresses, you'll get the first year free.
>
> We'd also like to hear from you about the kinds of articles you'd be
> interested in. We know there's a real need for a magazine to address
> this community and we want to make sure we meet those needs.
>
> Please be sure to include the following when you provide us with mailing
> addresses:
> Name
> Address
> Work OR home phone (whichever you'd prefer)
> Email
> Relationship to vintage apparel and costume - designer, maker, curator,
> dealer, collector, educator, etc.
>
> Thank you!
> Julia
> editor-in-chief
> Vintage Fashion Magazine
> fashionreporting@aol.com
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 21:36:37 2003
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Message-ID: <5b.3635b70f.2b8d7421@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:36:33 EST
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
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I received this, as well.  Of course, before I hand them my address (or 
anyone else's), has anyone checked this for validity?  The screen name has no 
profile at the moment, but seeing as anyone can create an AOL account so long 
as they have a credit card number and an address, I'm always wary of anything 
that comes my way that doesn't have a website, like "vintagefashion.com".  Of 
course, they could be launching that as I type ;)

Christine


In a message dated 2/25/03 8:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
saragrace@earthlink.net writes:

>Thought some of you might be interested.



--part1_5b.3635b70f.2b8d7421_boundary
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I received this, as well.  Of course, before I ha=
nd them my address (or anyone else's), has anyone checked this for validity?=
  The screen name has no profile at the moment, but seeing as anyone ca=
n create an AOL account so long as they have a credit card number and an add=
ress, I'm always wary of anything that comes my way that doesn't have a webs=
ite, like "vintagefashion.com".  Of course, they could be launching tha=
t as I type ;)



Christine





In a message dated 2/25/03 8:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, saragrace@earth=
link.net writes:



>Thought some of you might be interested.






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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 21:36:55 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:36:21 EST
Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
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In a message dated 2/25/2003 5:41:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


> From center front line to the back seam is 24 cm. This only gives 12
> centimeter free space, and my pocket flap is 18 cm. wide. And i want to
> place it 5 cm. from the center front line. I suppose the pocket is going to
> be 16 cm. wide, so i really have to cut some of the embroidery.
> 

I think I get it now. Remember, some coats have pocket flaps that go almost 
to the back buttons at the top of the pleats. Move the flap [and pocket] as 
far back as you can stand it.
And 12 cm. is wide enough for the pocket mouth [the pocket itself could be 
wider....the ends tacked to the flat lining to support them]

And eat some ice cream or some Big Macs or something so the next coat will be 
wide enough to work with, will ya?  :-P

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In a message dated 2/25/2003 5:41:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, dr=
ewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:






From center front line to the b=
ack seam is 24 cm. This only gives 12

centimeter free space, and my pocket flap is 18 cm. wide. And i want to

place it 5 cm. from the center front line. I suppose the pocket is going to<=
BR>
be 16 cm. wide, so i really have to cut some of the embroidery.






I think I get it now. Remember, some coats have pocket flaps that go almost=20=
to the back buttons at the top of the pleats. Move the flap [and pocket] as=20=
far back as you can stand it.

And 12 cm. is wide enough for the pocket mouth [the pocket itself could be w=
ider....the ends tacked to the flat lining to support them]



And eat some ice cream or some Big Macs or something so the next coat will b=
e wide enough to work with, will ya?  :-P

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 22:07:29 2003
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From: "chiara" 
To: "h-costume" 
References: <5b.3635b70f.2b8d7421@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:59:48 -0600
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Ok, no all my email addresses having to do with costuming just got spammed
with this. This is really suspicious.

Chiara

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business
community


> I received this, as well.  Of course, before I hand them my address (or
> anyone else's), has anyone checked this for validity?  The screen name has
no
> profile at the moment, but seeing as anyone can create an AOL account so
long
> as they have a credit card number and an address, I'm always wary of
anything
> that comes my way that doesn't have a website, like "vintagefashion.com".
Of
> course, they could be launching that as I type ;)
>
> Christine
>
>
> In a message dated 2/25/03 8:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> saragrace@earthlink.net writes:
>
> >Thought some of you might be interested.
>
>
>


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> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 22:11:44 2003
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From: 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th	Century"
	
Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: Lansknecht hat
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> 
> Sure.  It was for Karl and Elizabeth's wedding, and they couldn't figure 
> out how I made my hat, so they 'imported' me to sew hats for the wedding 
> party.  I made my first one of these in the mid-70s, as it was, and 
> remains, my basic SCA period.
> 
> How shall I get this info to people?  The 'origami top' idea comes from a 
> Durer, and I can include that image, or a pointer to it.
> 
> Kayta
> 
    Carl and Elizabeth, there's two names I haven't heard in a while.  I suspect we have a few mutual friends in the old St. Micheals crowd.

Cheers,
Ron Carnegie

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 22:18:53 2003
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Message-ID: <007701c2dd3c$09546fa0$d60b77d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <004a01c2dd0a$01acf9c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] swedish translation
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:09:02 -0800
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I had my Finnish dad who spent his childhood in sweeden take a look at
Bjarnes translation and he added the following interpretation.

Kurfürst August of Sachsen's knitten pants of yellow silk1552-55.
> In the Prins' inventory from 1555 they are deskribed as " A pair of
knitted
> spanish hosen with a codpiece" The word "spanish"  comes from the fashions
> origin with its cut and way of fashion. Please notice the padded codpiece.
> In the 1500 the european royal fashion expressed dynamic male looks
> Knitted silkwear was a part of the royal dress in this century and allowed
body movements to occur without the pants or stockings getting wrinkled. The
silk stockings were the hight of luxury and silk was made to orders of
royalty
>
> The spanish courtceremonies diktated bodymovements and these pants allowed
one to make these movements without getting wrinkles in ones clothes. These
became important for royal and courtly manners. The times
> new meticulous courtdanses was performed by the prince himself, the
knitted
> silk clothes revealed the bodys smothness and the persons elegance.
>
Lisa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:10 PM
Subject: [h-cost] swedish translation


> Ok here it goes:
>
> Kurfürst August of Sachsen's knitted silk stockings 1552-55.
> In the Prins' inventory from 1555 they are deskribed as " A pair of
knitted
> spanish hosen with a codpiece" The word "spanish"  comes from the fashions
> origin with its cut and way of fashion. Please notice the padded codpiece.
> In the 1500 the european royal fashion expressed a dynamic male magtbud.
> Knitted silkwear was a part of the royal dress in this century when the
mans
> breeches was devided in stockings and breeches. The silk stockings was the
> hight of luxury and silk was made to orders of  regulations.
>
> The spanish courtceremonies diktated bodymovements wich gave the right
> movements. These became important for royal and courtly manners. The times
> new meticulous courtdanses was performed by the prince himself, the
knitted
> silk clothes revealed the bodys smothness and the persons elegance.
>
> The picture may be used, if you revel the source, and the photographers
name
> must be given.
>
> I did the best i could to translate this, there may be other words wich
> could have ben better.
>
> Bjarne
>
>
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <110.20945454.2b8d7c2c@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:34:31 -0800
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nice to meet you JAzo478796@aol.com and good luck with your magazine.  =
Have you got a name ?  Most professionals don't say "I'm a professional" =
they say things in ways that sound professional which is why some of us =
are suspicious as so far you haven't, sounded professional that is.  But =
have another go will ya!  We're always interested in Vintage Clothing =
and would love to see a sucessful magazine on the subject.

Cheers!
Lisa


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: JAzo478796@aol.com=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:10 PM
  Subject: [h-cost] new magazine


  I'm the editor-in-chief of the new magazine.  I've got over 10 years =
of experience writing about the fashion and textiles industry in major =
international publications. There is nothing to be suspicious about.  =
I've never spanned anyone in my life. I'm a professional and an =
ex-college professor.  I don't want names of colleagues for ANY reason =
other than to know whom to send it to.  We aren't connected to ANY =
marketing company or any other agency - we're SIMPLY fashion industry =
journalists with a very strong background in historic.=20
  No relationship to old magazines you can buy on ebay.=20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


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nice to meet you JAzo478796@aol.com and good =
luck with=20
your magazine.  Have you got a name ?  Most professionals =
don't say=20
"I'm a professional" they say things in ways that sound professional =
which is=20
why some of us are suspicious as so far you haven't, sounded =
professional that=20
is.  But have another go will ya!  We're always interested in =
Vintage=20
Clothing and would love to see a sucessful magazine on the =
subject.


 


Cheers!


Lisa


 


 


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  JAzo478796@aol.com 
  
  
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, =
2003 6:10=20
  PM

  
Subject: [h-cost] new =
magazine

  

I'm the =
editor-in-chief=20
  of the new magazine.  I've got over 10 years of experience =
writing about=20
  the fashion and textiles industry in major international publications. =
There=20
  is nothing to be suspicious about.  I've never spanned anyone in =
my life.=20
  I'm a professional and an ex-college professor.  I don't want =
names of=20
  colleagues for ANY reason other than to know whom to send it to. =
 We=20
  aren't connected to ANY marketing company or any other agency - we're =
SIMPLY=20
  fashion industry journalists with a very strong background in =
historic. 
No=20
  relationship to old magazines you can buy on ebay.=20
  

  


  
_______________________________________________
h-costume =
mailing=20
  =
list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinf=
o/h-costume


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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:30:37 -0800
From: kris 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
In-reply-to: <5b.3635b70f.2b8d7421@aol.com>
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To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th	Century"
	
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I received it. I reported it as unsolicited email to my ISP :]

I was concerned because I couldn't find any information on the 'net.

kris

At 08:36 PM 25/02/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>I received this, as well.  Of course, before I hand them my address (or 
>anyone else's), has anyone checked this for validity?  The screen name has 
>no profile at the moment, but seeing as anyone can create an AOL account 
>so long as they have a credit card number and an address, I'm always wary 
>of anything that comes my way that doesn't have a website, like 
>"vintagefashion.com".  Of course, they could be launching that as I type ;)
>
>Christine
>
>
>In a message dated 2/25/03 8:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>saragrace@earthlink.net writes:
>
> >Thought some of you might be interested.

http://members.shaw.ca/ionization/ 

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:39:14 -0800
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551)
From: Heather Meadows 
To: Lisa Sinervo ,
        Century" "@net.indra.com
In-Reply-To: <00a601c2dd3f$987863a0$d60b77d8@pavilion>
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--===============95819789588379933==
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--Apple-Mail-53--799522179
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and, it IS spam if it is unsolicited, has no name or info, and no way=20
to unsubscribe.


On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 06:34 PM, Lisa Sinervo wrote:

> nice to meet you JAzo478796@aol.com=A0and good luck with your =
magazine.=A0=20
> Have you got a name ?=A0 Most professionals don't say "I'm a=20
> professional" they say things in ways that sound professional which is=20=

> why some of us are suspicious as so far you haven't, sounded=20
> professional that is.=A0 But have another go will ya!=A0 We're always=20=

> interested in Vintage Clothing and would love to see a sucessful=20
> magazine on the subject.
> =A0
> Cheers!
> Lisa
> =A0
> =A0
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: JAzo478796@aol.com
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:10 PM
> Subject: [h-cost] new magazine
>
> I'm the editor-in-chief of the new magazine. =A0I've got over 10 years=20=

> of experience writing about the fashion and textiles industry in major=20=

> international publications. There is nothing to be suspicious about.=20=

> =A0I've never spanned anyone in my life. I'm a professional and an=20
> ex-college professor. =A0I don't want names of colleagues for ANY =
reason=20
> other than to know whom to send it to. =A0We aren't connected to ANY=20=

> marketing company or any other agency - we're SIMPLY fashion industry=20=

> journalists with a very strong background in historic.
> No relationship to old magazines you can buy on ebay.
>
>
>

>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

--Apple-Mail-53--799522179
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and, it IS spam if it is unsolicited, has no name or info, and no way
to unsubscribe.



On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 06:34 PM, Lisa Sinervo wrote:


Arialnice to meet you
=
1999,1999,FFFFJAzo478796@aol.com<=
/underline>=A0and
good luck with your magazine.=A0 Have you got a name ?=A0 Most
professionals don't say "I'm a professional" they say things in ways
that sound professional which is why some of us are suspicious as so
far you haven't, sounded professional that is.=A0 But have another go
will ya!=A0 We're always interested in Vintage Clothing and would love
to see a sucessful magazine on the subject.

=A0

ArialCheers!

ArialLisa

=A0

=A0


----- Original Message -----

From:
=
1999,1999,FFFFJAzo478796@aol.com<=
/underline>

To:
=
1999,1999,FFFFh-costume@indra.com=


Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:10 PM

Subject: [h-cost] new magazine


ArialI'm the editor-in-chief of
the new magazine. =A0I've got over 10 years of experience writing about
the fashion and textiles industry in major international publications.
There is nothing to be suspicious about. =A0I've never spanned anyone in
my life. I'm a professional and an ex-college professor. =A0I don't want
names of colleagues for ANY reason other than to know whom to send it
to. =A0We aren't connected to ANY marketing company or any other agency
- we're SIMPLY fashion industry journalists with a very strong
background in historic.

No relationship to old magazines you can buy on ebay.




=
Arial<

Arial




_______________________________________________

h-costume mailing list

h-costume@mail.indra.com

http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume



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h-costume@mail.indra.com

http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

=

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--===============95819789588379933==--

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 23:23:21 2003
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To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
References: <000901c2dd34$b706f6c0$6601a8c0@mycomputer>
	<020601c2dd38$04997c70$31baee0c@c59303a>
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 I believe the other magazine was called "Vintage  FashionS", plural with an
'S'-so it is possible for this person to call the mag "Vintage Fashion."
Deb R

>
> Also, Vintage Fashion is an old magazine name, you can go on Ebay and buy old
> copies of it. Is it the same company come back?

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Tue Feb 25 23:58:58 2003
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From: 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th	Century"
	
Subject: Re: Bozo the Clown (was Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:59:17 -0500
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> 
> From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
> Date: 2003/02/25 Tue AM 08:17:15 EST
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Bozo the Clown (was Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
> 
> Larry Harmon is still alive too, and apparently still doing Bozo things.
> 
Yeah I find that as I get older I still keep doing "bozo things" myself. ;)

Cheers,
Ron

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 00:31:14 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "chiara" , Century" "@net.indra.com
References: <5b.3635b70f.2b8d7421@aol.com>
	<028301c2dd3b$15042f80$31baee0c@c59303a>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:30:45 -0500
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I am suspicious when a magazine editor does not give their last name.  All
the reporters and businesses I deal with give full names and phone numbers.

I also got spammed with this.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "chiara" 
To: "h-costume" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business
community


> Ok, no all my email addresses having to do with costuming just got spammed
> with this. This is really suspicious.
>
> Chiara
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business
> community
>
>
> > I received this, as well.  Of course, before I hand them my address (or
> > anyone else's), has anyone checked this for validity?  The screen name
has
> no
> > profile at the moment, but seeing as anyone can create an AOL account so
> long
> > as they have a credit card number and an address, I'm always wary of
> anything
> > that comes my way that doesn't have a website, like
"vintagefashion.com".
> Of
> > course, they could be launching that as I type ;)
> >
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/25/03 8:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > saragrace@earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > >Thought some of you might be interested.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
(http://www.plugit.com)]
>
>


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 02:09:56 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "h-costume" 
References: <200302240433.UAA02096@gw.retro.com>
	<025d01c2dbf1$903503f0$bd604e40@yourczpl0pp1h9>
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:09:05 -0500
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Now this is what I was told... by three old black ladies.

The way you can tell some mixed race children is by the children devil's
streaks.  (Please don't flame me I said *some,* and I am just passing on an
Old Wives Tale.)  My daughter is adopted and mixed race three ways...
German, Cherokee Indian, and Black.  The documentation came with her
adoption papers. The first two races from the birth mother, the latter from
the birth father.  The old ladies asked me did my daughter have some Black
in her because of the devil's streaks.  My daughter has pencil width curls,
that is fine in nature.  Her hair is very, very full and a medium brown.
Most people do not know when seeing her that she is of three races or even
two.  In the winter her skin color is like medium colored Anglo people.  In
the summer she tans beautifully bronze like Polynesians.  She also lives at
the pool to gain the great tan.  By December the tan is gone.

To let you know how much volume is in her hair, I did a hairstyle on her
with those long leather straps and sliding beads.  The style is a little
like a French braid without braiding.  On my hair, the straps will go all
the way down my hair to my hips.  When I did her hair tonight with the same
straps, I ran out of strapping just pass her shoulders.   When I pulled the
straps to the underside of her hair, the circumference (about 4-5") took up
so much strapping.  I told her bald men would die to have just a little of
her hair's volume.

BTW, when doing this style, no one could see the streaks.  It just looked
like her hair was highlighted by the sun.

When we worked on a film with a lot of local American Indians, my daughter
had a lot of physical characteristics of them.  They too have pencil width
curly hair and a light complexion.  There were Native American (NA) from all
over the U.S. in the film that we worked on.  Several NA were in the films,
Dances with Wolves and/or The Last of the Mohicans.  This film was made
right after those two films. The local NA looked a great deal different in
physical traits than the ones from other parts of the U.S.

At an annual reenactment of Ponchantas getting married, the actress was a
direct descendant of Ponchantas.  She feel in love with my daughter.  My
daughter told her that she was part NA but didn't know from where.  The
actress told her that she would adopt her as a little sister.  It was so
cute... the actress let her tag along with her.  She tells people her
race... well my sister is Ponchantas, what do you think?  Her other sister
is a re-enactor in Queen Elizabeth Court.  LOL!!!!  And well, her Auntie
Charlene on h-costume... she travels through Colonial-ACW eras.

So my question is... has anyone else seen mixed raced children/adults either
black or NA that have streaks in their hair since birth like I described ?

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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The Bozo my kids watched was filmed in Chicago at WGN.  It was on cable TV.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:35:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Robin Netherton 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
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On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Penny Ladnier wrote:

> I am suspicious when a magazine editor does not give their last name.  
> All the reporters and businesses I deal with give full names and phone
> numbers.
> 
> I also got spammed with this.

Surely I'm not the only one who remembers Julia!

She posted a query to this list in September 2002 asking what magazines
and publications were out there that costumers read. She identified
herself as a writer. After a couple of replies in which various people
bemoaned the general gap in the literature, someone asked Julia if she
were thinking of starting one. She said she hadn't been, but now that the
idea had come up, it was worth thinking about. Then ensued a conversation
about advertisers, subscribers, and how to find and reach people
interested in historic costume (from its many various angles). You can
find the thread(s) in the archives, starting with the subject line
"magazines and publications."

I'm pretty sure we asked her to stay in touch if she ever got something
off the ground. Therefore I was delighted to get her email tonight,
because it means she actually took that information and ran with it. I'll
be sending her my address -- after she replies to my private email to her,
in which I ask for her assurance that the address is not for sale
elsewhere, but to be used only for the purpose she describes.

--Robin

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From: Lee Thompson-Herbert 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Textile Technology-smell in your clothes!
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"Saragrace Knauf"  wrote:
>Just heard on the news that scientists have figured out how to 'weave'
>smell into your clothes!  The 'smell' particles are activated by
>movement and heat and are waterproof.  So you can machine wash the
>fabric!

Great, one more thing for me to be allergic to. ;}

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
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 --- Penny Ladnier  wrote: > Now this is what I was
told... by three old black ladies.
> 
> The way you can tell some mixed race children is by the children devil's
> streaks.  (Please don't flame me I said *some,* and I am just passing on an
> Old Wives Tale.)  My daughter is adopted and mixed race three ways...
> German, Cherokee Indian, and Black. 

Oi, German isn't a race, it's a nationality. You mean Caucasian.
Fascinating mixture though! I'm sooooo boring compared to that, Caucasian:
Russian steppe/peasant mid-west German. Poots *L*

> So my question is... has anyone else seen mixed raced children/adults either
> black or NA that have streaks in their hair since birth like I described ?

No, and I have seen lots of all sorts (used to do bits for embassies back in
Germany, loads of mixed race kids there) and quite frankly I have never ever
seen such 'devil streaks' except on Lily Munster and I thought it was just a
costume device. Great to learn all sorts of odd things. :-)

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 04:22:44 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
To: h-costume@indra.com
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 --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > 
> I think I get it now. Remember, some coats have pocket flaps that go almost 
> to the back buttons at the top of the pleats. Move the flap [and pocket] as 
> far back as you can stand it.
> And 12 cm. is wide enough for the pocket mouth [the pocket itself could be 
> wider....the ends tacked to the flat lining to support them]

Oh yes, that's true, you don't actually need to cut the pocket as wide as the
flaps. Mine are an inch smaler than the flap are.

> And eat some ice cream or some Big Macs or something so the next coat will be
> 
> wide enough to work with, will ya?  :-P

Nah nah, he can't do that, he's got a perfect figure right now ;-)

Nicole

=====
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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
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 --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > 
> I was wondering too. Y'know, the pocket "mouth" need not be any bigger than 
> to get your hand comfortably in them. [I make 'em a1" to 2" shorter than the 
> flap and only about 1" deep] 

Furthermore, I have a pattern taken from an original and the pocket mouth is
done in a triangle, so that the corners are not deep at all, only towards the
middle.

Uhm... makes sense?

Nicole

=====
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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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 --- Bjarne og Leif Drews  wrote: > 
> But it would be handy to have real pockets in the jacket.
> Also because i really think i have to wear a small sissors in the pocket,

Just be aware dear, that even in a suit made from woolen cloth, if you leave
anything in the pockets for any length of time hey start to sag very quickly.
Which is, no doubt, perfectly authentic at least from what I've seen in 17th c.
engravings. They occasionally show those pocket flaps open, things stuck in the
pockets like hankies and the pockets being quite saggy and bulked out.
You certainly wouldn't wnat that to happen in your silk suit though...

BTW, you might want to think about insuring your suit.

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:22:37 -0000
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Bjarne,

> But if you are going to bring a little reticule, my scissors perhaps
could
> have a place there?

Of course!

> Are you able to take photographs?

Er, yes; they don't come out very well, but I will certainly have a
go...

>Ill bring my digital camera along, and it
> would be lovely, if you could take some pics, i will take some of
you in
> deed!
> Hope not you would mind if i posted them on my websites!

If they don't look too dreadful:-(

> Are you going to accomodate yourself in Bath? Or are you  taking a
night
> train back to London?
> This week i am going to look for a hotel in Bath.

I think I'll find somewhere in Bath for the night; after the dance
class in the afternoon and the Ball in the evening I'll need to relax
a bit. I'm still at work on the dress(es); my hope is for something
along the lines of Kate's costume. Different period, of course, but
quiet elegance as a foil to your magnificence. I hope:-)

best wishes
Stevie

>
> Bjarne
>
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stevie Gamble" 
> To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the
mid-20thCentury"
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] a little dilemma!
>
>
> > Carol wrote: re Bjarne's  little dilemma!
> >
> > >      I don't remember if there are any extant 18thC coats with
just
> > the flaps
> > > and no pockets.  But I think a gentleman in an embroidered suit
> > would have a
> > > servant to carry things for him so he wouldn't have to use his
> > pockets. :-)
> > >
> >
> > Well, in default of a servant I'll volunteer; at least for the
suit's
> > first outing:-)
> >
> > best wishes
> > Stevie
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>
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From: "Kate M Bunting" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak
	Swedish?
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Linda wrote:

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby

>>> vmaa2@cox.net 02/25/03 07:50pm >>>
>Well, on #28, the description reads:
>Dräkt för kartagensare, möjligen från operan "Aeneas i Carthago" 1799.
>Rosersbergs Slott.

>I admit that I can't read/speak Swedish or Danish, but I would hazard a
>guess that 'operan' means opera and "Aeneas I Carthago" is the name of
>the opera?
http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild28.htm 

Costume for (?) Carthaginian, possibly from the opera "Aeneas in Carthage"

>I'd really like to know the 'motiv' for this one:
>http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild18.htm 
>It reminds me of Drea's Penthesilea costume of a few years back!

Can't quite make it out, but seems to have been for some kind of court entertainment, something like a masque costume.




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To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <20030225.081157.232.0.Cley@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: pain relievers, with obligatory costume content.
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> have you tried using Tylenol Arthirtis formula? It's an OTC. My doctor
> turned me on to it. I don't know how it reacts with steroidals but you
> can take it if you are on Vioxx.

Haven't tried it, not sure if it's available in my country (we get
paracetamol OTC and available in supermarkets) which apparently isn't
available in the US- at least the way we can get it here- so I suppose it
balances;)) But I have tried ibuprofen (brufen and neurofen), vioxx,
celebrex, oruvail, voltaren, naprosyn, aspirin, paracetamol, tramadol.. none
of which have worked. And celebrex was a bloody expensive experiment I can
tell you;)

Ahh I see it's an analgesic, not anti inflam (the active ingredient
acetaminophen).. they just make me feel woosey, with no pain relief. It's
this that's been particularly difficult to cope with. And we are using
Arava, Salazopyren and Methotrexate to deal with the disease itself... not
really that terrific as I'm still on 7 1/2mg predders. I tell you it scares
me with how poorly I've been reacting to meds.

And I'm on the pill (again medical reasons.. and good side effect of helping
prevent the bone thinning that is happening from the prednisone) and
apparently it can interact with that.


> Obligatory costume content: I feel so much better that I think I'm up to
> doing some embroidery again and housework is much, much less
> intimidating.

heheh, yeah, though I don't do heavy dishes or laundry still;) But I am
sewing again so that's beengreat:) Good side effect: lost weight because of
the disease so I look better in the cossies I do like when I do get pudgy
fromt he steriods it tends to be in winter anyway when I'm useless;)

Do you find hand sewing is therapy up until a point and then it all goes to
hell?  I do find sketching designs helpful because an HB or softer pencil
doesn't require too much force (and mechanical pencils just need to be
clicked rather than twisted in a sharpener) or a little beading/hand sewing
rests my mind and keeps the hand and arm joints moving but not to the point
of strain.. but with sewing only for short periods, as the small movements
repeat and there's not as much range of movement as drawing.

Ah the joys of a passion that allows you to indulge at least on the fringe:)
Performing is a different matter.. though I suppose I could always be a
voice over artist;)

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~thebruce



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Robin Netherton wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Penny Ladnier wrote:
>
> > Going through the *change of life* or having a baby can make your hair
> > fall out/ get thin because of hormones.  My hair thinned out after
> > having each kid.  But after 6 months it started getting thicker again.
>
> The mechanism behind the post-baby hair fallout is actually pretty
> interesting. Normally, each hair goes through a life cycle of (on average)
> seven years. But each follicle is on its own schedule. So every day a few
> of your oldest hairs fall out (or come out in combing/brushing), and new
> hairs start growing from the same follicles. When you're pregnant, the
> hormone changes suspend the normal fallout/replacement cycle, and you
> don't lose a lot of the hairs you would normally lose on a daily basis.
>
> Then, after you give birth and your hormones return to normal (lactation
> may delay this, I'm not sure), the hairs that should have fallen out
> during pregnancy come out, sometimes all at once. Some women find
> themselves with handfuls of dead hair from combing and think they're
> losing their hair. But it's actually just resuming the normal cycle ...
> only it will feel a lot thinner at first, because you have to let the new
> hairs grow back in to get back to your usual volume. Thus the 6 months
> Penny mentioned.

Hmmm, that's interesting. I have fairly long hair (just about sittable upon).
It
had reached what seemed to be a natural limit and hadn't grown any longer
for some years, then when I was pregnant it started growing again. It hasn't
really stopped (although it has slowed down a little). I didn't notice any
significant hair loss at the end of my pregnancy.

When I was little I used to have the goal of being able to sit on my hair.
It's
not that romantic now I'm just about there. There are plenty of occasions when

you _don't_ want to sit on your hair (aside from, as others have pointed out,
the aargh-I'm-lying-on-my-hair-I-can't-move moments). Plus the other day
I nearly plugged myself into a power socket (bending over trying to plug
something
into a powerboard in an awkward place my hair fell over it and got caught up
in the plug). If I'd had wet hair I would have been in serious trouble. Just
something
to look out for :-)

Claire

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Subject: [h-cost] Fw: The Lions of Fashion
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The reply from the manager of the shop - she is quite courteous and
informative.  And the book is quite reasonable in price.
But check out the rest of these she suggests!    multi-enzyme preparation,
anyone?
Rowena
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeanette Danielson" 
To: "Rowena"
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 3:11 AM
Subject: Re: The Lions of Fashion



Thank you for your interest. The catalog Lions of Fashion is 340 SEK plus
postage, about 200 SEK to the US. That is around 54 $ in total. We will send
an invoice. I look forward to your order. Have you looked at our website
under "butiken" there you will find other titles that might interest you.
Here is a selection.

893

 Enzymatic consolidation Bok
 Enzymatic consolidation of the portrait of Rudolf II as "Vertumnus" by
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 50,00

880

 Firearms of the Royal Armouries I Bok
 Firearms of the Royal Armouries I - from Gustav II Adolf to Charles XIII.
This first volume give the history of each firearm and the inventory texts
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 350,00

892

 Investigation, restoration and conservation of Matthaeus Merian portraits
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 Investigation, restoration and conservation of Matthaeus Merian portraits.
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 50,00

881

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 This book is a presentation in words and pictures of a selection of the
Royal Armoury´s most evocative treasures. It comes in response to requests
from numerous visitors, and our aim has been to place the 50 or more
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 125,00

894

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 Enzymatic examination of the authenticity of a painting attributed to
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 50,00

708

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 White Arms of the Royal Armoury may be regarded as a catalogue in which
every object is examined from technical and artistic points of view as well
as that of the history of arms. Extensive information is given on the
manufacture and individual history of these arms. By Lena Nordström 1984,
341 pages with mainly black and white photos. Bibliographical, numbered
edition with gilt top.
 390,00

887

 White Arms of the Royal Armoury Bok
 White Arms of the Royal Armoury may be regarded as a catalogue in which
every object is examined from technical and artistic points of view as well
as that of the history of arms. Extensive information is given on the
manufacture and individual history of these arms. By Lena Nordström 1984,
341 pages with mainly black and white photos.



But of course we have others in swedish with english summery. If you have
customers that might be interested in publications in swedish only but
presenting unique material, I might suggest the following:

896

 Hovets Dräkter Bok
 Den svenska hovdräkten är unik. Inget annat land kan uppvisa en motsvarande
dräkt med så lång tradition. I denna brett upplagda kultur- och
dräkthistoriska publikation får vi följa dess 200-åriga historia, präglad av
sedvänja och modeinfluerat nyskapande; från Gustav III:s svenska dräkt - en
idéskapelse med såväl nationella som europeiska förebilder - fram till vår
egen tid. Redaktör Lena Rangström 1994, 152 sidor med många underbara
färgbilder.
 200,00

878

 Kläder för tid & evighet - Gustaf III sedd genom sina dräkter Bok
 En rikt illustrerade publikation om kungens kostumeringar. Det är en
annorlunda dräkthistoria - där dräkterna kan berätta så mycket mer än bara
mode och tidsanda. Här får vi följa en människas liv - allt ifrån de vita,
broderade "kristningskläderna" - till den suggestivt ödesmättade dräkten
från maskeradbalen 1792... Däremellan passerar livet revy - Gustaf III sedd
genom sina kläder! 270 sidor, 303 bilder av Lena Rangström.
 350,00

891

 Kröningsdräkter Bok
 I alla tider har kröningar varit stora fester. I synnerhet gäller det
klädprakten. I denna vackra volym Kröningsdräkter i Sverige får läsaren en
generös skildring i text och bild av kröningskläderna. Av Gudrun Ekstrand.
 180



I look forward to hear from you.


Best Regards,


Jeanette Danielson
Enhetschef/Head of Department
Publika enheten/Public Department
Livrustkammaren/The Royal Armoury
Slottsbacken 3
S-111 30 Stockholm
Sweden
tel: +46(0)851955508
fax: +46(0)851955511
e-mail: jeanette.danielson@lsh.se
www.livrustkammaren.nu
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rowena" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:15 PM
Subject: The Lions of Fashion


> The fact that you have a wonderful book was posted on a discussion group
of
> Historical Costumes,   but we cannot figure out what the price is, or how
to
> order.  IN fact, we were trying to figure out if you had any other
> books/catalogs on historical clothes or embroidery.
> While many of us are in the United States, there are just as many from all
> over the world.
> Please help - the book looks wonderful, since most of us can't make the
> exhibition.
>
> P Boynton
>
> sleepyunicorn@citlink.net
>
>
>


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 09:27:02 2003
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Claire Clarke wrote:

> Hmmm, that's interesting. I have fairly long hair (just about sittable
> upon). It had reached what seemed to be a natural limit and hadn't
> grown any longer for some years, then when I was pregnant it started
> growing again. It hasn't really stopped (although it has slowed down a
> little). I didn't notice any significant hair loss at the end of my
> pregnancy.

That was actually my experience as well, though I remember some of my
friends from pregnancy bemoaning their lost hair; apparently the fallout
doesn't happen to everyone, but it's common enough to make it into the
books about pregnancy/childbirth. I don't know whether I escaped this
because I nursed for nearly a year. The "growing again" during pregnancy
apparently occurs when your longest hairs, which would normally have
reached the end of their life and fallen out, get a hormonal "stay of
execution" and so keep growing for a while more.

Six years after the birth of my second, it seems my hair has returned to
the same natural limit it reached before my first pregnancy, or maybe a
little shorter (which is to be expected with age, as either your fallout
cycle shortens or your hair growth rate slows, I don't recall which).

--Robin


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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:48:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Robin Netherton 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine
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On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 JAzo478796@aol.com wrote:

> I'm the editor-in-chief of the new magazine.  I've got over 10 years
> of experience writing about the fashion and textiles industry in major
> international publications. There is nothing to be suspicious about.

Julia,

The others who have posted are correct in that people would feel more
comfortable giving you their full names and address if you provide at
least your last name and a snail address for the magazine's business.

I know that a launch is tough -- you need to have a decent reader base
guaranteed for your first issue to make it worthwhile for advertisers to
invest, and without the advertisers you can't publish. Perhaps if you tell
us a bit more about your team, the projected contents of the issue and
authors, projected launch date, whether you plan to publish
monthly/daily/etc.

I remember the enthusiasm on the list when this topic first came up, and I
have a feeling people here will be more interested in helping this get off
the ground if you approach us as colleagues/partners rather than as
marketing targets, which was how your first letter (I'm sure
unintentionally) sounded.

And people will probably be happier *not* giving their phone and email
address if what you need is only the mailing address.

--Robin


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From: "Kim Baird" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: long hair
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:43:02 -0600
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Penny--

The only person with streaks I have met was from India.

We have lots of Lakota, Ojibway and Mandan around here, and I have never
seen them with streaks. Must be the Cherokee?

Kim in ND

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:09 AM
To: h-costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair

Now this is what I was told... by three old black ladies.

The way you can tell some mixed race children is by the children devil's
streaks.  (Please don't flame me I said *some,* and I am just passing on
an
Old Wives Tale.)  My daughter is adopted and mixed race three ways...
German, Cherokee Indian, and Black.  The documentation came with her
adoption papers. The first two races from the birth mother, the latter
from
the birth father.  The old ladies asked me did my daughter have some
Black
in her because of the devil's streaks.  My daughter has pencil width
curls,
that is fine in nature.  Her hair is very, very full and a medium brown.
Most people do not know when seeing her that she is of three races or
even
two.  In the winter her skin color is like medium colored Anglo people.
In
the summer she tans beautifully bronze like Polynesians.  She also lives
at
the pool to gain the great tan.  By December the tan is gone.

To let you know how much volume is in her hair, I did a hairstyle on her
with those long leather straps and sliding beads.  The style is a little
like a French braid without braiding.  On my hair, the straps will go
all
the way down my hair to my hips.  When I did her hair tonight with the
same
straps, I ran out of strapping just pass her shoulders.   When I pulled
the
straps to the underside of her hair, the circumference (about 4-5") took
up
so much strapping.  I told her bald men would die to have just a little
of
her hair's volume.

BTW, when doing this style, no one could see the streaks.  It just
looked
like her hair was highlighted by the sun.

When we worked on a film with a lot of local American Indians, my
daughter
had a lot of physical characteristics of them.  They too have pencil
width
curly hair and a light complexion.  There were Native American (NA) from
all
over the U.S. in the film that we worked on.  Several NA were in the
films,
Dances with Wolves and/or The Last of the Mohicans.  This film was made
right after those two films. The local NA looked a great deal different
in
physical traits than the ones from other parts of the U.S.

At an annual reenactment of Ponchantas getting married, the actress was
a
direct descendant of Ponchantas.  She feel in love with my daughter.  My
daughter told her that she was part NA but didn't know from where.  The
actress told her that she would adopt her as a little sister.  It was so
cute... the actress let her tag along with her.  She tells people her
race... well my sister is Ponchantas, what do you think?  Her other
sister
is a re-enactor in Queen Elizabeth Court.  LOL!!!!  And well, her Auntie
Charlene on h-costume... she travels through Colonial-ACW eras.

So my question is... has anyone else seen mixed raced children/adults
either
black or NA that have streaks in their hair since birth like I described
?

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 09:48:50 2003
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From: "Kate M Bunting" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] swedish translation
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I didn't have my Swedish dictionary to hand yesterday, but having looked up a few words, can I venture to suggest that " anv"andandet av silke reglerades i dr"aktfor"ordningar "  could be translated as "The use of silk was controlled by sumptuary laws" (literally "costume regulations")?

Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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> Haven't tried it, not sure if it's available in my country (we get
> paracetamol OTC and available in supermarkets) which apparently isn't
> available in the US- at least the way we can get it here- so I suppose it
> balances;)) 

Acetamenophen and paracetamol are the same thing.  And neither is good for
you if you're already on:

> Arava, Salazopyren and Methotrexate to deal with the disease itself... not
> really that terrific as I'm still on 7 1/2mg predders.

I just crashed and burned methotrexate therapy a couple months ago.  No 
sewing for me until we find something to replace it that actually works.

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:51:16 +0100
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Subject: [h-cost] book sale
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Hi!
I got a large catalogue today from the bookstore.
Amongst the sales books is this:
Aileen Ribeiro: Ingres in Fashion 160 pages 60 colour photographs.
Does any of you have this? Is it worth bying?
Oh, there are so many books i want to buy, but i have hardly any room left
on my bookshelves anymore.
Anyway my pages are updated with photos of the jacket now.
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm

Bjarne who is sitting and making pockets,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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The only person I remember seeing with a white streak is the singer John Shirley-Quirk, who used to be on TV sometimes in the 60s and 70s. (My mother used to claim it was artificial!) I've no idea what his ethnic origin is, if it isn't Anglo-Saxon.

Seehttp://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Shirley-Quirk-John.htm








Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 10:33:34 2003
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Lansknecht hat
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:33:56 -0700
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Hi Kayta-I'd love to see pictures, pointers etc.  Do you need a place to
put it on the web?  I have a website or we could post it on the German
Ren Links/files section?

I'd especially like the pointer to the Durer picture.   I had been
scouting Cranach to no avail.  I will check my Durer book out, but it is
pretty lame.

Sg


Sure.  It was for Karl and Elizabeth's wedding, and they couldn't figure

out how I made my hat, so they 'imported' me to sew hats for the wedding

party.  I made my first one of these in the mid-70s, as it was, and 
remains, my basic SCA period.

How shall I get this info to people?  The 'origami top' idea comes from
a 
Durer, and I can include that image, or a pointer to it.

Kayta

    //// \\\
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   (((  <> ))))
      )   ((((((
/----\   /---\))

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 10:36:28 2003
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Kitty Bartholamew on DIY network (she does a number of craft 
show spots) has the white streaks in her dark hair. I 
imagine at this point she's dying her hair, but she's had 
those streaks as long as I can remember.
	-Judy Mitchell


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In a message dated 2/26/03 6:11:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:


> And celebrex was a bloody expensive experiment I can
> tell you;)
> 
> 

I did get some relief from celebrex but not much.  My rheumatologist switched 
me to a combination of prozac (which though and antidepressant is also used 
for neuropathic pain) and bextra (a nonsteroidal anti-inflam)...this 
combination gave me much better results...have a bad day now and again, but 
the good days arem uch more frequent...hope this helps!
Sharon

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In a message dated 2/26/0=
3 6:11:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes:





And celebrex was a bloody e=
xpensive experiment I can

tell you;)







I did get some relief from celebrex but not much.  My rheumatologis=
t switched me to a combination of prozac (which though and antidepressant is=
 also used for neuropathic pain) and bextra (a nonsteroidal anti-inflam)...t=
his combination gave me much better results...have a bad day now and again,=20=
but the good days arem uch more frequent...hope this helps!

Sharon

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] swedish translation
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote:
> I didn't have my Swedish dictionary to hand yesterday, but 
> having looked up a few words, can I venture to suggest that " 
> användandet av silke reglerades i dräktforordningar "  could be 
> translated as "The use of silk was controlled by sumptuary laws" 
> (literally "costume regulations")?

Yep, spot on. :)

Ingrid

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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business community
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:58:10 -0800
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I remember a post from a freelance writer seeking work  Was that Julia?  I
think the magazine idea is great and would support it.  If I was asking
personal contact details, especially for details of friends, I would provide
my full name, the university were I was a professor, the names of the
publications my work previously appeared in, not just generalizations.  I
have had a favourite hotmail address die a spammers death.  There must be
money in porn, debt consolidation, viagra, and diploma mills is all I can
say.

I would hope Julia would post again, with a more concrete introduction and
then I would pass the word around too.

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Netherton" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"

Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: new magazine for costume/vintage business
community


>
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Penny Ladnier wrote:
>
> > I am suspicious when a magazine editor does not give their last name.
> > All the reporters and businesses I deal with give full names and phone
> > numbers.
> >
> > I also got spammed with this.
>
> Surely I'm not the only one who remembers Julia!
>
> She posted a query to this list in September 2002 asking what magazines
> and publications were out there that costumers read. She identified
> herself as a writer. After a couple of replies in which various people
> bemoaned the general gap in the literature, someone asked Julia if she
> were thinking of starting one. She said she hadn't been, but now that the
> idea had come up, it was worth thinking about. Then ensued a conversation
> about advertisers, subscribers, and how to find and reach people
> interested in historic costume (from its many various angles). You can
> find the thread(s) in the archives, starting with the subject line
> "magazines and publications."
>
> I'm pretty sure we asked her to stay in touch if she ever got something
> off the ground. Therefore I was delighted to get her email tonight,
> because it means she actually took that information and ran with it. I'll
> be sending her my address -- after she replies to my private email to her,
> in which I ask for her assurance that the address is not for sale
> elsewhere, but to be used only for the purpose she describes.
>
> --Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] swedish translation
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:01:36 -0800
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I am also abit dubius of my dad's translation of "dynamic male magtbud" as
dynamic male looks" coming after a line about a codpiece.  I come from a
fairly conservative family.  :)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ingrid G. Storrø" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] swedish translation


> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote:
> > I didn't have my Swedish dictionary to hand yesterday, but
> > having looked up a few words, can I venture to suggest that "
> > användandet av silke reglerades i dräktforordningar "  could be
> > translated as "The use of silk was controlled by sumptuary laws"
> > (literally "costume regulations")?
>
> Yep, spot on. :)
>
> Ingrid
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 11:19:53 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair
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Actor Scott Bakula has a white streak over his forehead.  He's had it
since at least high school, and says it's completely natural.  You can
see it clearly in episodes of QUANTUM LEAP, but it seems to have been
minimized for ENTERPRISE.

						...eliz

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 11:22:09 2003
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Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote:
> >I'd really like to know the 'motiv' for this one:
> >http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild18.htm 
> >It reminds me of Drea's Penthesilea costume of a few years back!
> 
> Can't quite make it out, but seems to have been for some kind of 
> court entertainment, something like a masque costume.

Here's a go at it:

Karl XI's carousel* outfit à la Romaine fr (French or from) 1672

The "kasken" (this is the helmet-y thing, AFAIK) is made of gilt 
leather. Breast- and backplate of gilt pressed brass, completely covered 
(on the outside) with a vegetation pattern of (leaf)vines and flowers. 
The lace-up boots are of white (I can't remember the direct translation 
of "genombrutet", but here it means that parts of the leather is cut out 
to create a pattern) with brass scales.

In December of 1672, the 17 year old Karl XI's ascension to the throne 
was celebrated with three days' festvities in Stockholm. The main 
attraction was the carousel that was held at (somewhere I'm not sure of) 
by the main square. Four quadrilles* competed, and the young King 
himself led under the name "Knight of Honour of the old Göta people" 
(Bit shaky translation there). The king and all his knights were, 
however, outfitted in Roman style.

The names of the involved artists and artisans have been possible to 
trace in different archives. The artistic trio behind the carousel and 
its props were royal architect Nicodemus Tessin the older, court painer 
David Klöcker Ehrenstrahl,and the sculptor Nicolaes Millich


*Carousel as defined in Merriam-Webster: "1 : a tournament or exhibition 
in which horsemen execute evolutions"

*quadrille, from the M-W: "Etymology: French, group of knights engaged 
in a carousel, from Spanish cuadrilla troop, from diminutive of cuadra 
square, from Latin quadra, quadrum
Date: 1726"


Hope this helps,
Ingrid :)

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 12:03:22 2003
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Kayta:  I would love to see anything you can share with me on your hats.
 The origami method sounds like fun.  If you would like to send any
files or photos directly to me I would be glad to send them on to anyone
else who is interested.

And Saragrace;  I got sucked into the pleating thread on the GermanRen
group.  Thanks, I think :) :) :).

Catherine
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 12:07:48 2003
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Lisa wrote:
>I am also abit dubius of my dad's translation of "dynamic male magtbud" as
>dynamic male looks" coming after a line about a codpiece.  I come from a
>fairly conservative family.  :)

"Magtbud" was Bjarne's version (a Danish word?) - the original said "maktsprak" (=power language??) I think we get the drift...




Kate Bunting
Library, University of Derby


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 12:14:01 2003
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:17:21 -0500
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Wow, thanks! This conjures up all sorts of images of a wonderful public
revel... which leads me down the mental path of why I like costumes! 
It's amazing that this garment has survived in such good condition for
all these years. I wonder if this was the King's outfit or one of his
knights?

~Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Ingrid G. Storrø
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:51 AM
To: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
Century
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak
Swedish?

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote:
> >I'd really like to know the 'motiv' for this one:
> >http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild18.htm 
> >It reminds me of Drea's Penthesilea costume of a few years back!
> 
> Can't quite make it out, but seems to have been for some kind of 
> court entertainment, something like a masque costume.

Here's a go at it:

Karl XI's carousel* outfit à la Romaine fr (French or from) 1672

The "kasken" (this is the helmet-y thing, AFAIK) is made of gilt 
leather. Breast- and backplate of gilt pressed brass, completely covered

(on the outside) with a vegetation pattern of (leaf)vines and flowers. 
The lace-up boots are of white (I can't remember the direct translation 
of "genombrutet", but here it means that parts of the leather is cut out

to create a pattern) with brass scales.

In December of 1672, the 17 year old Karl XI's ascension to the throne 
was celebrated with three days' festvities in Stockholm. The main 
attraction was the carousel that was held at (somewhere I'm not sure of)

by the main square. Four quadrilles* competed, and the young King 
himself led under the name "Knight of Honour of the old Göta people" 
(Bit shaky translation there). The king and all his knights were, 
however, outfitted in Roman style.

The names of the involved artists and artisans have been possible to 
trace in different archives. The artistic trio behind the carousel and 
its props were royal architect Nicodemus Tessin the older, court painer 
David Klöcker Ehrenstrahl,and the sculptor Nicolaes Millich

*Carousel as defined in Merriam-Webster: "1 : a tournament or exhibition

in which horsemen execute evolutions"

*quadrille, from the M-W: "Etymology: French, group of knights engaged 
in a carousel, from Spanish cuadrilla troop, from diminutive of cuadra 
square, from Latin quadra, quadrum
Date: 1726"


Hope this helps,
Ingrid :)





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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 12:32:55 2003
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I would feel better about this if I knew where the outfit was located--not 
just somewhere in cyberspace.
Ann Wass

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I would feel better about this if I knew where the out=
fit was located--not just somewhere in cyberspace.

Ann Wass

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In a message dated 2/26/2003 8:51:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:


> Aileen Ribeiro: Ingres in Fashion 160 pages 60 colour photographs.
> 

This is a great book!  It is only women's clothes, though.  I would recommend 
that you also buy the catalogue from the Ingres exhibit--sorry I don't have 
the documentation at my fingertips.  Of course, Ingres is 19th century.  But 
his portrait drawings, especially, are chock full of detail on costume.  I 
was blown away when I first saw the exhibit and then had the opportunity to 
see it again.
Ann Wass

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In a message dated 2/26/2003 8:51:56 AM Eastern Standa=
rd Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes:






Aileen Ribeiro: Ingres in Fashi=
on 160 pages 60 colour photographs.






This is a great book!  It is only women's clothes, though.  I woul=
d recommend that you also buy the catalogue from the Ingres exhibit--sorry I=
 don't have the documentation at my fingertips.  Of course, Ingres is 1=
9th century.  But his portrait drawings, especially, are chock full of=20=
detail on costume.  I was blown away when I first saw the exhibit and t=
hen had the opportunity to see it again.

Ann Wass

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_______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 13:02:58 2003
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The catalogue of the Ingres exhibit is "Portraits by Ingres: Image of an 
Epoch" edited by Gary Tinterow and Philp Conisbee; New York Metropolitan 
Museum of Art, 1999.  I found it used a couple of years ago.
Ann Wass

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The catalogue of the Ingres exhibit is "Portraits by I=
ngres: Image of an Epoch" edited by Gary Tinterow and Philp Conisbee; New Yo=
rk Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1999.  I found it used a couple of years=
 ago.

Ann Wass

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 13:18:35 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <200302261352.FAA18613@gw.retro.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: pain relievers, with obligatory costume content.
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:07:49 -0500
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Okay, I have been on a new med since Christmas that I can swear by is good.
It called Ultracet.  This has made my back pain 100% + better.  It is not a
narcotic or dope you up.  I can sit at the computer for hours again and
work.  From Sept. to Dec. I could only sit here for 30 mins. to an hour
without pain.  I have tried to go a day or so without the Ulracet... by the
3rd day, I am back to crawling like a snail in pain.  I also take Soma (a
muscle relaxer) and Vioxx.

I haven't sewed in the past month, but I am getting somewhat back to normal.
I might try sewing again after the taxes are done. I have degenerative disk
disease and am living on the edge of having surgery for the removal of three
disks.  So if it can help slow down the time before the blow out of the
disks... I'm happy.

BTW, I tried the tens machine for a month.  It did the opposite for me and
triggered muscle spasms.  The docs told me it works for some people and
doesn't for others.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 13:28:45 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <20030225.081157.232.0.Cley@juno.com>
	<005401c2dd87$a89b2ae0$d8d0adcb@michaela>
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Michaela,

I forgot one thing that really helps when I am in pain... I got this new
type of heating pad that has a sponge in it.  You wet the sponge and put it
in the heating pad case.  It makes a world of difference.  I sleep on it
sometimes and wake up without that achy feeling.  I bought and shipped them
to my family members for Christmas... we all have the same back problems.

I got my pad at a CVS pharmacy, although I doubt you have that store there.
I checked their website and it is not listed.  But I know they are still in
the stores.  Unfortunately, I do not have the brand name.  The only thing on
the pad is an address for repairs.  I can send that if you want.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 13:28:50 2003
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        I wrote the email address on the website and asked if there were
an English translation.  I got this message this morning.

<<>> 

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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<<>>
 
        Personally, I never give my phone number to anyone unless I have
to, but I think that the lady probably already has access to all the
mailing addresses if she is a member of this list.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Dear h-Cost list:
After receiving so many hostile, shocking responses to the announcement I=20
made about our new magazine, I unsubscribed to the list.  A very kind member=
,=20
however, suggested I give it another go for a few reasons and I took her=20
intelligent advice.

A number of months ago, many of you responded to a post I had made about=20
magazines addressing historical fashion and textiles by suggesting I start=20
one of my own.  It's a lot of very hard work to do that, but I pursued and=20
we're now ready to announce our launch.  I had gotten in touch with the list=
=20
because I was under the impression that many of you would be interested.  It=
=20
never occured to me to sell the mailing list to advertisers - I'm a=20
professional journalist, not a flim-flam artist. As for any invasion of=20
privacy,  I assumed you'd be sending me work addresses, not personal=20
addresses - although I now realize that for many of us, they're one and the=20
same.  Your phone numbers are certainly not necessary; my assumption was tha=
t=20
you'd see that as optional - and was simply my effort at creating a more=20
complete mailing list for myself.
Here's more about me and the project:
We plan to have our first issue on the shelves in May. =A0Our first issue is=
=20
going to have a bunch of nice juicy articles (interviews with a former set=20
and costume designer who has been hired by a wealthy philanthropist to build=
=20
a museum collection - she's talking about all the factors that go into=20
creating a collection and choosing pieces from all over the world; also an=20
interview with one of the finest historical costume designers/creators for=20
cinema in the world, based in Italy); lots of great book reviews; photo=20
spreads from costume musems, etc. =A0We're also going to cover spinning, dye=
ing=20
and weaving and the whole issue of recreating and/or conserving textiles.
And we're going to include information and stories from all over the world,=20
not just the U.S.
Also:  I really meant it in my introductory letter that we're welcoming inpu=
t=20
from prospective readers - what you feel is missing out there and what shoul=
d=20
be covered in the magazine.
I've been a contributing editor for many years with Fairchild Publications,=20
which puts out Women's Wear Daily and other fashion/apparel titles.
I had kind of envisioned that people from the h-cost list would have a lot o=
f=20
friends/colleagues in the field and would *want* to forward me a lot of name=
s=20
and addresses for our first mailing. =A0We're printing thousands of copies a=
nd=20
we want to send them to people who care about the field - readers who will b=
e=20
*interested*. =A0We're specifically addressing people who might have shops o=
r=20
teach or =A0work, in some sense, in the field of costume. I had actually hop=
ed=20
they'd welcome the new magazine as this entire field of work and interest=20
isn't currently being addressed..

We'll also have classified ads and we'll be listing interesting events,=20
lectures, workshops etc. as well as Letters to the Editor. =A0I'm going to g=
ive=20
it another go at being on the h-cost list but PLEASE remember that it is ver=
y=20
hard work to launch and maintain a new magazine and please realize that ugly=
=20
accusations can be very toxic. =20

If, on the other hand, you have any friends (overseas or in the U.S.) who=20
might be interested in this magazine, please give them our email address=20
(fashionreporting@aol.com) because we do want to make sure we reach a broad=20
audience and get the word out.  Our web site will be up as soon as possible=20=
-=20
remember, this is a LOT of work.
Thank you for your patience,
Julia

--part1_1d6.3bc91ea.2b8e577a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear h-Cost list:

After receiving so many hostile, shocking responses to the announcement I ma=
de about our new magazine, I unsubscribed to the list.  A very kind mem=
ber, however, suggested I give it another go for a few reasons and I took he=
r intelligent advice.



A number of months ago, many of you responded to a post I had made about mag=
azines addressing historical fashion and textiles by suggesting I start one=20=
of my own.  It's a lot of very hard work to do that, but I pursued and=20=
we're now ready to announce our launch.  I had gotten in touch with the=
 list because I was under the impression that many of you would be intereste=
d.  It never occured to me to sell the mailing list to advertisers - I'=
m a professional journalist, not a flim-flam artist. As for any invasion of=20=
privacy,  I assumed you'd be sending me work addresses, not personal ad=
dresses - although I now realize that for many of us, they're one and the sa=
me.  Your phone numbers are certainly not necessary; my assumption was=20=
that you'd see that as optional - and was simply my effort at creating a mor=
e complete mailing list for myself.

Here's more about me and the project:

We plan to have our first issue on the shelves in May. =A0Our first issue is=
 going to have a bunch of nice juicy articles (interviews with a former set=20=
and costume designer who has been hired by a wealthy philanthropist to build=
 a museum collection - she's talking about all the factors that go into crea=
ting a collection and choosing pieces from all over the world; also an inter=
view with one of the finest historical costume designers/creators for cinema=
 in the world, based in Italy); lots of great book reviews; photo spreads fr=
om costume musems, etc. =A0We're also going to cover spinning, dyeing and we=
aving and the whole issue of recreating and/or conserving textiles.

And we're going to include information and stories from all over the world,=20=
not just the U.S.

Also:  I really meant it in my introductory letter that we're welcoming=
 input from prospective readers - what you feel is missing out there and wha=
t should be covered in the magazine.

I've been a contributing editor for many years with Fairchild Publications,=20=
which puts out Women's Wear Daily and other fashion/apparel titles.

I had kind of envisioned that people from the h-cost list would have a lot o=
f friends/colleagues in the field and would *want* to forward me a lot of na=
mes and addresses for our first mailing. =A0We're printing thousands of copi=
es and we want to send them to people who care about the field - readers who=
 will be *interested*. =A0We're specifically addressing people who might hav=
e shops or teach or =A0work, in some sense, in the field of costume. I had a=
ctually hoped they'd welcome the new magazine as this entire field of work a=
nd interest isn't currently being addressed..



We'll also have classified ads and we'll be listing interesting events, lect=
ures, workshops etc. as well as Letters to the Editor. =A0I'm going to give=20=
it another go at being on the h-cost list but PLEASE remember that it is ver=
y hard work to launch and maintain a new magazine and please realize that ug=
ly accusations can be very toxic.  



If, on the other hand, you have any friends (overseas or in the U.S.) who mi=
ght be interested in this magazine, please give them our email address (fash=
ionreporting@aol.com) because we do want to make sure we reach a broad audie=
nce and get the word out.  Our web site will be up as soon as possible=20=
- remember, this is a LOT of work.

Thank you for your patience,

Julia


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_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

--===============46085069062296502==--

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 13:52:13 2003
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By the way:  I need to confirm with the publisher which address we should 
provide as our mailing address and phone number, which is the only reason I 
haven't told you yet.  Also, more details about our team are still in 
process, so it felt premature to list all of them.  We have full intentions 
of sharing all that information on a daily basis,  ASAP.
Julia

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By the way:  I need to confirm with the publisher=
 which address we should provide as our mailing address and phone number, wh=
ich is the only reason I haven't told you yet.  Also, more details abou=
t our team are still in process, so it felt premature to list all of them.&n=
bsp; We have full intentions of sharing all that information on a daily basi=
s,  ASAP.

Julia

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_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 14:16:59 2003
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	Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:15:53 GMT
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:15:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
To: h-costume@indra.com
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 --- JAzo478796@aol.com wrote: > Dear h-Cost list:
> After receiving so many hostile, shocking responses to the announcement I 
> made about our new magazine, I unsubscribed to the list.  A very kind member,
> 
> however, suggested I give it another go for a few reasons and I took her 
> intelligent advice.

Dear Julia,

Please do understand that no one washostile to _you_ as a person, but in this
world of thousands (yes, thousands, my BF can't even use his email anymore!) of
spam mail, schemes to rob you of your money, and all sorts of awful things, one
has become suspicious of everything, that's just how the world and the internet
has turned into. The days of innocence are definitely gone on the Internet.
Quite frankly, if I hadn't known from Robin who you were I would have just
deleted your mail, because I would never in a million years give out my address
and phone number, it would have seemed to me that the writer of the mail (to my
nicolas_fouquet address) had a malicious intent.
Sorry, but this is the truth, please realise this, NO ONE meant to be nasty to
you, but reality is as it is and reality is not very nice 99% of all the time.

However, I am glad that everything has turned out to be well, and am looking
forward to hear more of your magazine.

Nicole 

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 14:28:53 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:23:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair -streaks
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        It is possible that the German (light hair) in combination with
the other races with very dark hair could be the reason for the streaks. 
I don't think the original poster said the Native American's had streaks,
only the mixed races.  

        Just as a side note I had a white streak in my hair that
developed in my twenties (wasn't born with it) and my ancestory is mostly
Irish, Scots, Welsh, and Choctaw.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 14:30:36 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:30:29 -0800
Subject: Re: [h-cost] book sale
From: Agnes Gawne 
To: 
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 Bjarne -

I went to a lecture by Aileen Ribeiro at the National Gallery in London the
day this book was released - I took some notes but where they are today I
don't know. 

The book is not quite as good as I had hoped after attending the lecture.
Ms. Ribiero's presentation was much more interesting.

Like Anne has said the book has mostly paintings of women.  There is some
interesting stuff on the use of colors (maybe Penny should read that part
some day).  There are also some nice close-up photos of the paintings that
are better quality than we usually get of these paintings.  Some of the
paintings have photographs of representative extant garments in the nearby
pages for reference, that makes it nice for kind of "proving the artist
didn't make this fashion up"...

Anyway, it's a nice book but not my favorite book of that 19th Century
period.  (That's currently the new Kyoto Fashion book discussed here
recently but there are quite a few contenders for that title).

I understand completely about not having enough bookshelf space left for
costume books and I am guilty of picking up another last night, a monograph
on Elsa Schiaparelli - even used it was $25 and worth it, I think.

Agnes
> 
>> Aileen Ribeiro: Ingres in Fashion 160 pages 60 colour photographs.
>> 
>

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To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
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It sounds really fabulous?  Will you know soon what the price may be?  =
I'm assuming it isn't free?  Are you selling subscriptions yet? Do let =
us all know when you reach that point.

As for folks being hostile, I think that unfortunately spammers have =
pretty much  killed the days of folks reading email re: any new venture =
without suspicion, but your response allayed my questions and the mag =
sounds really scrumptious.

An interesting topic to me would be articles on folks who run theatre =
and/or film shops, who and how they hire, how they approach the day to =
day running, etc.,  anything on all museums around the world, interviews =
with anyone who's ever been nominated for Oscars or Tonys, or even =
smaller localized work.  Designers of runway/catwalk collections, =
especially the young up and comers... that's all I can think of for now.

angela
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: JAzo478796@aol.com=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:46 AM
  Subject: [h-cost] new magazine - another try


  Dear h-Cost list:
  After receiving so many hostile, shocking responses to the =
announcement I made about our new magazine, I unsubscribed to the list.  =
A very kind member, however, suggested I give it another go for a few =
reasons and I took her intelligent advice.

  A number of months ago, many of you responded to a post I had made =
about magazines addressing historical fashion and textiles by suggesting =
I start one of my own.  It's a lot of very hard work to do that, but I =
pursued and we're now ready to announce our launch.  I had gotten in =
touch with the list because I was under the impression that many of you =
would be interested.  It never occured to me to sell the mailing list to =
advertisers - I'm a professional journalist, not a flim-flam artist. As =
for any invasion of privacy,  I assumed you'd be sending me work =
addresses, not personal addresses - although I now realize that for many =
of us, they're one and the same.  Your phone numbers are certainly not =
necessary; my assumption was that you'd see that as optional - and was =
simply my effort at creating a more complete mailing list for myself.
  Here's more about me and the project:
  We plan to have our first issue on the shelves in May.  Our first =
issue is going to have a bunch of nice juicy articles (interviews with a =
former set and costume designer who has been hired by a wealthy =
philanthropist to build a museum collection - she's talking about all =
the factors that go into creating a collection and choosing pieces from =
all over the world; also an interview with one of the finest historical =
costume designers/creators for cinema in the world, based in Italy); =
lots of great book reviews; photo spreads from costume musems, etc.  =
We're also going to cover spinning, dyeing and weaving and the whole =
issue of recreating and/or conserving textiles.
  And we're going to include information and stories from all over the =
world, not just the U.S.
  Also:  I really meant it in my introductory letter that we're =
welcoming input from prospective readers - what you feel is missing out =
there and what should be covered in the magazine.
  I've been a contributing editor for many years with Fairchild =
Publications, which puts out Women's Wear Daily and other =
fashion/apparel titles.
  I had kind of envisioned that people from the h-cost list would have a =
lot of friends/colleagues in the field and would *want* to forward me a =
lot of names and addresses for our first mailing.  We're printing =
thousands of copies and we want to send them to people who care about =
the field - readers who will be *interested*.  We're specifically =
addressing people who might have shops or teach or  work, in some sense, =
in the field of costume. I had actually hoped they'd welcome the new =
magazine as this entire field of work and interest isn't currently being =
addressed..

  We'll also have classified ads and we'll be listing interesting =
events, lectures, workshops etc. as well as Letters to the Editor.  I'm =
going to give it another go at being on the h-cost list but PLEASE =
remember that it is very hard work to launch and maintain a new magazine =
and please realize that ugly accusations can be very toxic. =20

  If, on the other hand, you have any friends (overseas or in the U.S.) =
who might be interested in this magazine, please give them our email =
address (fashionreporting@aol.com) because we do want to make sure we =
reach a broad audience and get the word out.  Our web site will be up as =
soon as possible - remember, this is a LOT of work.
  Thank you for your patience,
  Julia



-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


  _______________________________________________
  h-costume mailing list
  h-costume@mail.indra.com
  http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

------=_NextPart_000_01BE_01C2DD8A.3973A220
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









It sounds really fabulous?  =
Will you know=20
soon what the price may be?  I'm assuming it isn't free?  Are =
you=20
selling subscriptions yet? Do let us all know when you reach that=20
point.


 


As for folks being hostile, I think that =
unfortunately=20
spammers have pretty much  killed the days of folks reading email =
re: any=20
new venture without suspicion, but your response allayed my questions =
and the=20
mag sounds really scrumptious.


 


An interesting topic to me would be articles on =
folks who run=20
theatre and/or film shops, who and how they hire, how they approach the =
day to=20
day running, etc.,  anything on all museums around the world, =
interviews=20
with anyone who's ever been nominated for Oscars or Tonys, or even =
smaller=20
localized work.  Designers of runway/catwalk collections, =
especially the=20
young up and comers... that's all I can think of for now.


 


angela


  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  JAzo478796@aol.com 
  
  
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, =
2003 9:46=20
  AM

  
Subject: [h-cost] new magazine =
- another=20
  try

  

Dear h-Cost list:
After receiving so many =
hostile,=20
  shocking responses to the announcement I made about our new magazine, =
I=20
  unsubscribed to the list.  A very kind member, however, suggested =
I give=20
  it another go for a few reasons and I took her intelligent =
advice.

A=20
  number of months ago, many of you responded to a post I had made about =

  magazines addressing historical fashion and textiles by suggesting I =
start one=20
  of my own.  It's a lot of very hard work to do that, but I =
pursued and=20
  we're now ready to announce our launch.  I had gotten in touch =
with the=20
  list because I was under the impression that many of you would be=20
  interested.  It never occured to me to sell the mailing list to=20
  advertisers - I'm a professional journalist, not a flim-flam artist. =
As for=20
  any invasion of privacy,  I assumed you'd be sending me work =
addresses,=20
  not personal addresses - although I now realize that for many of us, =
they're=20
  one and the same.  Your phone numbers are certainly not =
necessary; my=20
  assumption was that you'd see that as optional - and was simply my =
effort at=20
  creating a more complete mailing list for myself.
Here's more about =
me and=20
  the project:
We plan to have our first issue on the shelves in May. =

   Our first issue is going to have a bunch of nice juicy articles=20
  (interviews with a former set and costume designer who has been hired =
by a=20
  wealthy philanthropist to build a museum collection - she's talking =
about all=20
  the factors that go into creating a collection and choosing pieces =
from all=20
  over the world; also an interview with one of the finest historical =
costume=20
  designers/creators for cinema in the world, based in Italy); lots of =
great=20
  book reviews; photo spreads from costume musems, etc.  We're also =
going=20
  to cover spinning, dyeing and weaving and the whole issue of =
recreating and/or=20
  conserving textiles.
And we're going to include information and =
stories=20
  from all over the world, not just the U.S.
Also:  I really =
meant it in=20
  my introductory letter that we're welcoming input from prospective =
readers -=20
  what you feel is missing out there and what should be covered in the=20
  magazine.
I've been a contributing editor for many years with =
Fairchild=20
  Publications, which puts out Women's Wear Daily and other =
fashion/apparel=20
  titles.
I had kind of envisioned that people from the h-cost list =
would=20
  have a lot of friends/colleagues in the field and would *want* to =
forward me a=20
  lot of names and addresses for our first mailing.  We're printing =

  thousands of copies and we want to send them to people who care about =
the=20
  field - readers who will be *interested*.  We're specifically =
addressing=20
  people who might have shops or teach or  work, in some sense, in =
the=20
  field of costume. I had actually hoped they'd welcome the new magazine =
as this=20
  entire field of work and interest isn't currently being=20
  addressed..

We'll also have classified ads and we'll be listing =

  interesting events, lectures, workshops etc. as well as Letters to the =
Editor.=20
   I'm going to give it another go at being on the h-cost list but =
PLEASE=20
  remember that it is very hard work to launch and maintain a new =
magazine and=20
  please realize that ugly accusations can be very toxic.  =


If, on=20
  the other hand, you have any friends (overseas or in the U.S.) who =
might be=20
  interested in this magazine, please give them our email address=20
  (fashionreporting@aol.com) because we do want to make sure we reach a =
broad=20
  audience and get the word out.  Our web site will be up as soon =
as=20
  possible - remember, this is a LOT of work.
Thank you for your=20
  patience,
Julia

  

  


  
_______________________________________________
h-costume =
mailing=20
  =
list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinf=
o/h-costume


------=_NextPart_000_01BE_01C2DD8A.3973A220--


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http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 15:31:08 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:31:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Jacobson Dawn 
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Thanks Bjarne! 8-) That clears up a couple of
questions I had.

I also just ordered a copy of the English version of
the catalog; for anyone that is interested, it is
about $40USD, plus shipping.

Dawn


=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 15:33:52 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Greetings!
Thanks for your words about the book about Ingres.
I think i want to buy it, it is on sale for 300 kr. and it is half the price
from new.
I am always looking for new portraits i never have seen before.
There also is a series of books about the history of Copenhagen...........
oh it is dangerous with all those temptations.

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 15:47:17 2003
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From: "Cabbage Rose" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <000c01c2dd9e$22393160$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit
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YOU TAKE MY BREATH AWAY!  Honestly there ought to be a national museum for
stuff YOU make!

I am just sitting here drooling in my morning coffee.

Wow

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults
 looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..."
The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:51 AM
Subject: [h-cost] book sale


> Hi!
> I got a large catalogue today from the bookstore.
> Amongst the sales books is this:
> Aileen Ribeiro: Ingres in Fashion 160 pages 60 colour photographs.
> Does any of you have this? Is it worth bying?
> Oh, there are so many books i want to buy, but i have hardly any room left
> on my bookshelves anymore.
> Anyway my pages are updated with photos of the jacket now.
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
>
> Bjarne who is sitting and making pockets,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>
>
>
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 15:48:31 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <000c01c2dd9e$22393160$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
	<01d601c2ddcd$a5b56d40$db457a43@angelap3a8d978>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit
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Hello.
Oh thankyou thankyou. This was very kind said.
I have given it a thoaght what should happend with it.
When i go to the Georgian Ball, i might get a taste to it and want to go
regularly. Then there is the swedish society Gustafs Skål. They are having
picnics in the summertime and ball in the autumn. For a picnic it would not
fit in, two formal, but the autumn ball is held in a small manorhouse
outside Stockholm and i have the feeling i will love it.
Castle Selsoe did not take enough care of my costumes i think. They were
sitting on the dress stands all winter long, and there is very cold there
and very damp, so it is not good for the costumes. Besides, the renaissance
dress i made was placed in the sunshine and it has almost lost its colour.
Therefore i have desided not to donate any more costumes there.
Some years there has ben exhibition of peoples embroidery in some nice
showrooms at Frederiksberg. I have thoaght about, i might could exhibit it
there..........
Thanks for your phraise, i am very pleased that people like it.

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cabbage Rose" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"

Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit


> YOU TAKE MY BREATH AWAY!  Honestly there ought to be a national museum for
> stuff YOU make!
>
> I am just sitting here drooling in my morning coffee.
>
> Wow
>
> angela
> +++++
> Angela F. Lazear
> Cabbage Rose Costumes
> http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> Theatrical Costume Design
>
> "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults
>  looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..."
> The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:51 AM
> Subject: [h-cost] book sale
>
>
> > Hi!
> > I got a large catalogue today from the bookstore.
> > Amongst the sales books is this:
> > Aileen Ribeiro: Ingres in Fashion 160 pages 60 colour photographs.
> > Does any of you have this? Is it worth bying?
> > Oh, there are so many books i want to buy, but i have hardly any room
left
> > on my bookshelves anymore.
> > Anyway my pages are updated with photos of the jacket now.
> > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> >
> > Bjarne who is sitting and making pockets,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> >
> >
> >
> > Leif og Bjarne Drews
> > www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> >
> > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 15:54:44 2003
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From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:18:49 -0500
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Subject: [h-cost] Landschnecker hat
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On the subject of this hat, I had to make one for a customer last spring =
and was only so-so successful in the piece that was finished.  It is my =
understanding that the original Landscherneker style in general was a =
bastardization of the Swiss and Italian army costumes of the period, =
slit and altered to fit the field gatherer.  Therefore, I looked to the =
wide brimmed hat of the period as it might have been found in those =
geographical areas as the starting point. These can be found in early =
Renaissance drawings, particularly in those of the Doges in Italy. =
Beginning with the largest felt  blank I could locate, (about 20") I =
slit the crown in about 6 or 8 cuts making sure they remained connected =
of the top.  Then, I cut the brim up to about 3"toward the crown, also =
with about 6-8  slits.  Trimming all these vents slightly, I tried =
rolling the brim pieces upwards and tacked them in place to give the =
doughnut roll in  the pictures. Hand crushing the crown to present the =
'windows', I made a very full inner beret for the lining and tacked this =
in place and was able to get a nice slashed and show effect.  My =
problem(s) continued, however, on getting the right look for the brim.  =
We tried running a loose roll of silk cut on the bias through the rolled =
channel, but it looked too contrived.  After playing with it for a =
while, it finally made it's way out of the shop.  Then we added the =
curled feathers and this was ok, but think the feathers weren't thick =
enough to be too grand. When I do another one, I think I will throw =
history to the winds and approach the problem through the new technology =
of millinery arts developed in the succeeding 4-5 Hundred years...ie. as =
I am understanding how some of you are re-creating this chapeau. Or, if =
there are historical directions available, would like to be put in the =
Know.                                                                    =
                                                                         =
                                                                         =
                       Kathleen ( Who survived her dinner party...even =
with 10 costume (theatre) fittings completed about two hours before =
'sit-down'.)                                       
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On the subject of this hat, I had to make one for a =
customer=20
last spring and was only so-so successful in the piece that was =
finished. =20
It is my understanding that the original Landscherneker style in =
general=20
was a bastardization of the Swiss and Italian army costumes of the =
period,=20
slit and altered to fit the field gatherer.  Therefore, I looked to =
the=20
wide brimmed hat of the period as it might have been found in those =
geographical=20
areas as the starting point. These can be found in early Renaissance =
drawings,=20
particularly in those of the Doges in Italy. Beginning with the =
largest=20
felt  blank I could locate, (about 20") I slit the crown in about 6 =
or 8=20
cuts making sure they remained connected of the top.  Then, I cut =
the brim=20
up to about 3"toward the crown, also with about 6-8  slits.  =
Trimming=20
all these vents slightly, I tried rolling the brim pieces upwards and =
tacked=20
them in place to give the doughnut roll in  the pictures. Hand crushing =
the=20
crown to present the 'windows', I made a very full inner beret for the =
lining=20
and tacked this in place and was able to get a nice slashed and show=20
effect.  My problem(s) continued, however, on getting the right =
look for=20
the brim.  We tried running a loose roll of silk cut on the bias =
through=20
the rolled channel, but it looked too contrived.  After =
playing with=20
it for a while, it finally made it's way out of the shop.  =
Then we=20
added the curled feathers and this was ok, but think the feathers =
weren't thick=20
enough to be too grand. When I do another one, I think I will throw =
history=20
to the winds and approach the problem through the new technology of =

millinery arts developed in the succeeding 4-5 Hundred =
years...ie. as=20
I am understanding how some of you are re-creating this chapeau. Or, if =
there=20
are historical directions available, would like to be put in the=20
Know.            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
            =
 Kathleen (=20
Who survived her dinner party...even with 10 costume (theatre) fittings=20
completed about two hours before 'sit-down'.)     =20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
 


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 16:05:10 2003
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From: "Cabbage Rose" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:02:47 -0800
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I can't believe a museum wouldn't take the appropriate care, but yet I can.
You certainly shouldn't let anyone have your things if the don't know how to
take care of them. They are treasures!

Glad you have a place to wear it, and can't wait to see the first pictures
of Bjarne in his famous DUDS!

angela
+++++
Angela F. Lazear
Cabbage Rose Costumes
http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
Theatrical Costume Design

"And thus I clothe my naked villany
 With odd old ends stoln' forth of holy writ,
 And seem a saint when most I play the devil"
Richard III, I, iii - W. Shakespeare


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"

Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit


> Hello.
> Oh thankyou thankyou. This was very kind said.
> I have given it a thoaght what should happend with it.
> When i go to the Georgian Ball, i might get a taste to it and want to go
> regularly. Then there is the swedish society Gustafs Skål. They are having
> picnics in the summertime and ball in the autumn. For a picnic it would
not
> fit in, two formal, but the autumn ball is held in a small manorhouse
> outside Stockholm and i have the feeling i will love it.
> Castle Selsoe did not take enough care of my costumes i think. They were
> sitting on the dress stands all winter long, and there is very cold there
> and very damp, so it is not good for the costumes. Besides, the
renaissance
> dress i made was placed in the sunshine and it has almost lost its colour.
> Therefore i have desided not to donate any more costumes there.
> Some years there has ben exhibition of peoples embroidery in some nice
> showrooms at Frederiksberg. I have thoaght about, i might could exhibit it
> there..........
> Thanks for your phraise, i am very pleased that people like it.
>
> Bjarne
>
>
> Leif og Bjarne Drews
> www.my-drewscostumes.dk
>
> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cabbage Rose" 
> To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the
mid-20thCentury"
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 8:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit
>
>
> > YOU TAKE MY BREATH AWAY!  Honestly there ought to be a national museum
for
> > stuff YOU make!
> >
> > I am just sitting here drooling in my morning coffee.
> >
> > Wow
> >
> > angela
> > +++++
> > Angela F. Lazear
> > Cabbage Rose Costumes
> > http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> > Theatrical Costume Design
> >
> > "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults
> >  looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..."
> > The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:51 AM
> > Subject: [h-cost] book sale
> >
> >
> > > Hi!
> > > I got a large catalogue today from the bookstore.
> > > Amongst the sales books is this:
> > > Aileen Ribeiro: Ingres in Fashion 160 pages 60 colour photographs.
> > > Does any of you have this? Is it worth bying?
> > > Oh, there are so many books i want to buy, but i have hardly any room
> left
> > > on my bookshelves anymore.
> > > Anyway my pages are updated with photos of the jacket now.
> > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> > >
> > > Bjarne who is sitting and making pockets,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Leif og Bjarne Drews
> > > www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> > >
> > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > h-costume mailing list
> > > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 16:19:51 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:59:17 -0800
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th 	Century"
	
From: Heather Rose Jones 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
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At 4:51 PM +0100 2/26/03, Ingrid G. Storrø wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote:
>>  >I'd really like to know the 'motiv' for this one:
>>  >http://www.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild18.htm
>>  >It reminds me of Drea's Penthesilea costume of a few years back!
>>
>>  Can't quite make it out, but seems to have been for some kind of
>>  court entertainment, something like a masque costume.
>
>Here's a go at it:
>
>Karl XI's carousel* outfit à la Romaine fr (French or from) 1672
>
>The "kasken" (this is the helmet-y thing, AFAIK) is made of gilt

I believe the usual English spelling for the object is "casque" 
(well, "English" in the sense that means "borrowed from French").

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 16:22:54 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Lansknecht hat 
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Kayta,

I would LOVE to have your instructions on how to construct a Lansknecht hat.  I have been drooling over them at faires for years and taken zillions of pictures, but never got up enough nerve to take the plunge and make one myself.  If necessary, you could email it to me offlist.

Thanks 

Donna Scarfe
Fyne Hats By Felicity
www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com
fynehats2@aol.com
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From: prairielark 
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
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For our wedding in March, my fiance just purchased a wonderful pair of very large 18c shoe buckles from a collector.  When they came in the mail, these were quite a bit larger than he had realized.  We think therefore that they must be rather early, perhaps 1730 or so.  The buckles are decorative, of brass with a nickel wash.  In fact, they are so much bigger than the lachets that the bars show on either side of the buckles when they are attached.  Would it be proper to fashion some sort of ruching or cockade to cover these bars?  Haven't ever noticed the wearing of buckles and ruched shoe decorations at the same time, but then again, we usually do the common person thing and have less knowledge of fancy dress than we should.  Any good paintings/portraits/museum sites we can look at for ideas?  These buckles are really quite spiffy and my love really wants to find some way these would work.  His shoes are Fugawee Jeffersons in case this matters, which are second half-18c.  W!
e figure maybe we can say he's wearing grandaddy's shoe buckles for the wedding.  Ideas, help?

Many thanks,
Phoebe

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 17:04:24 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:35:31 -0500
From: Penny Ladnier 
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I was wondering because since yesterday I am receiving a lot of attachments
from h-costume members with the RE: h-cost in the header.  I don't open
attachments except without a warning from the sender that one is coming.

Is anyone else having this problem?  I never receive attachments via the
list.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 17:07:52 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:07:20 -0800
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
From: Agnes Gawne 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
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Penny - 
I am suspicious as well.  Yesterday I got an attachment from h-costume.  I
have a mac so viruses rarely affect it - anyway I deleted it so I don't know
what it was either.

Agnes

> From: Penny Ladnier 
> Reply-To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
> Century" 
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:35:31 -0500
> To: h-costume 
> Subject: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
> 
> I was wondering because since yesterday I am receiving a lot of attachments
> from h-costume members with the RE: h-cost in the header.  I don't open
> attachments except without a warning from the sender that one is coming.
> 
> Is anyone else having this problem?  I never receive attachments via the
> list.
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 17:36:20 2003
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Greetings,

I noticed my email arrived on the list with an attachment sign, but I had not sent an attachment.  I have two email programs vying for control of my system.  One of them probably watches the other one and tries to email at the same time is my only thought.  One is a cable system and one is on dial up which is no longer used.  

As far as I know, there is no virus.  

SKneeland

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Greetings,


 


I noticed my email arrived on the list with an attachment 
sign, but I had not sent an attachment.  I have two email programs vying 
for control of my system.  One of them probably watches the other one and 
tries to email at the same time is my only thought.  One is a cable system 
and one is on dial up which is no longer used.  


 


As far as I know, there is no virus.  


 


SKneeland


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 17:42:43 2003
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <20030226.122658.-379211.6.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair -streaks
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:42:08 -0500
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>
>         Just as a side note I had a white streak in my hair that
> developed in my twenties (wasn't born with it) and my ancestory is mostly
> Irish, Scots, Welsh, and Choctaw.
>
> Lalah


I have had these two white streaks since I was in my twenties, they just
keep getting wider and wider. And my ancestry is mostly English, Welsh, and
Norwegian.

Dianne

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 18:06:43 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Cutting/draping jobs
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If any of you are professional cutter/drapers and are looking for summer
work, there seems to be a dearth of such for some reason this season.  I
applied for a bunch of jobs recently and have been almost inundated with
calls to hire me (I got 3 calls in 1 week).  I just thought I'd pass it
along since I obviously can't accept them all.  If you're interested, write
me privately and I'll let you know where they are.

Sylvia Rognstad, another mother for peace
-- 
Divinity Designs and Emeralds
http://www.d-e-designs.com



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<<>>

        I think "like" is a serious understatement!  Personally, I am in
love with it and would love to have the outfit sitting in my living room
and I suspect others feel the same way.  As I have said before, you are
an inspiration!

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:53:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Robin Netherton 
To: Historic Costume List 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Linda Rice wrote:

> Another weird thing, when I hit 'reply' to answer, in the send line I
> get "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the
> mid-20thCentury" and then the h-cost address. Anybody got a clue what
> that could be about? Yes, I have virus protection, and nothing has
> come up so far.  Hmm, isn't that the tagline of the new magazine?

No, it's the description line of the h-cost list. Someone on the thread
has the list address labeled in her addressbook this way, so all the
followups pick it up (if you hit "reply").

--Robin

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 18:41:55 2003
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:35:35 -0500
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Yes, Penny, I'm getting them too. It started about the same time as the
'new magazine' thread hit, which made me doubly suspicious of that. Now,
lots of attachments are coming in, from all different addresses and
subjects. (Before anybody starts on me, NO I don't think that the
mysterious editor has knowingly sent a virus around!)

Another weird thing, when I hit 'reply' to answer, in the send line I
get "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the
mid-20thCentury" and then the h-cost address. Anybody got a clue what
that could be about? Yes, I have virus protection, and nothing has come
up so far.  Hmm, isn't that the tagline of the new magazine? 

Sidne, there was an attachment on your most recent message as well. It
could be your dueling systems, but I somehow don't think so.

~Linda
exercising the 'delete' key frequently today

-----Original Message-----
 On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier
Subject: [h-cost] Is there a new virus

I was wondering because since yesterday I am receiving a lot of
attachments
from h-costume members with the RE: h-cost in the header.  I don't open
attachments except without a warning from the sender that one is coming.

Is anyone else having this problem?  I never receive attachments via the
list.

Penny Ladnier



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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 18:51:00 2003
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To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:51:10 -0700
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Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeth Lear Question was:Is there a new virus 
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I've been receiving the attachments for awhile, but the return header
thing is something I noticed yesterday.   I wasn't too worried about the
attachments because I had accidentally forwarded a yahoo note (with the
obnoxious adds at the bottom) and it got bounced right away...though I
have not opened the attachments either. 

I thought perhaps the email service had been 'upgraded' with the new
return header and bounced mail notice?


I am sure Elizabeth has the answer..what say you?

Sg


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 18:58:59 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
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What can we do about it?

on 2/26/03 3:53 PM, Robin Netherton at robin@shell.nightowl.net wrote:

> 
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Linda Rice wrote:
> 
>> Another weird thing, when I hit 'reply' to answer, in the send line I
>> get "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the
>> mid-20thCentury" and then the h-cost address. Anybody got a clue what
>> that could be about? Yes, I have virus protection, and nothing has
>> come up so far.  Hmm, isn't that the tagline of the new magazine?
> 
> No, it's the description line of the h-cost list. Someone on the thread
> has the list address labeled in her addressbook this way, so all the
> followups pick it up (if you hit "reply").
> 
> --Robin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 18:59:25 2003
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:47:20 -0500
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Oh. How clever. 
Thanks for clearing up at least a part of today's mystery. Honest, I've
been on the list for over 4 years, and have never seen this before now!

Pax,

Linda

-----Original Message-----
 On Behalf Of Robin Netherton
 
On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Linda Rice wrote:

> Another weird thing, when I hit 'reply' to answer, in the send line I
> get "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the
> mid-20thCentury" and then the h-cost address. Anybody got a clue what
> that could be about? 

No, it's the description line of the h-cost list. Someone on the thread
has the list address labeled in her addressbook this way, so all the
followups pick it up (if you hit "reply").

--Robin




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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 19:06:09 2003
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From: Robin Netherton 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Linda Rice wrote:

> Thanks for clearing up at least a part of today's mystery. Honest, I've
> been on the list for over 4 years, and have never seen this before now!

Let me correct my first guess -- the tag is not coming from someone's
addressbook; I see now that it's being generated from the h-cost list
software (as the "reply-to" header, which is added by the list server when
your messages go through). I sent my last message through without the tag
in the "to" line, and it came through with the tag in the added "reply-to"
line.

--Robin


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Sinde, your message came through with an attachment.  I didn't open it
because you didn't mention it.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:01:38 -0500
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Yes, I'm seeing that now too. I guess it really doesn't matter, as long
as the system works. Sometimes when several new things happen at the
same time, it's easy to try and connect them. 

Thanks for your help!

~Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Robin Netherton
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 6:19 PM
To: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
Century
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Is there a new virus


On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Linda Rice wrote:

> Thanks for clearing up at least a part of today's mystery. Honest,
I've
> been on the list for over 4 years, and have never seen this before
now!

Let me correct my first guess -- the tag is not coming from someone's
addressbook; I see now that it's being generated from the h-cost list
software (as the "reply-to" header, which is added by the list server
when
your messages go through). I sent my last message through without the
tag
in the "to" line, and it came through with the tag in the added
"reply-to"
line.

--Robin




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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 19:25:29 2003
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Message-ID: <048701c2ddee$64cb3870$ba0c8ea7@herselftifhj9g>
From: "Land of Oz" 
To: 
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:25:43 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	Century 
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============80379995282320815=="
Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com
Status: RO

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--===============80379995282320815==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0484_01C2DDBC.178A6090"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0484_01C2DDBC.178A6090
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The attachment is showing on every message sent in HTML. This is default =
for all AOL addresses I believe.

Even if you are not using funny colors or fonts, your email program can =
still send a message in HTML, unless you set it for plain text only (or =
if you use AOL).  I am not attaching anything to this message, but I'll =
bet it shows as having one.

Denise
landofoz@netins.net

------=_NextPart_000_0484_01C2DDBC.178A6090
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









The attachment is showing on every message sent in HTML. This is =
default=20
for all AOL addresses I believe.


 


Even if you are not using funny colors or fonts, your email program =
can=20
still send a message in HTML, unless you set it for plain text only (or =
if you=20
use AOL).  I am not attaching anything to this message, but I'll =
bet it=20
shows as having one.


 


Denise



 


------=_NextPart_000_0484_01C2DDBC.178A6090--


--===============80379995282320815==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
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--===============80379995282320815==--

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 19:32:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:32:58 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
Message-ID: <20030226233257.GB6348@net.indra.com>
References: <000101c2ddd8$4466afd0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
	
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The mailman software used to run the list was upgraded yesterday.  The
changes you're seeing may be related to that.  I have no idea why you
might be seeing attachments - the list isn't supposed to allow them,
and in fact the new software allows the stripping of HTML from a
text/HTML message.

					...eliz, list admin

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 19:40:18 2003
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: "'Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury'"
	
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:19:57 -0500
Message-ID: <000501c2dddc$d258e520$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
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You guys are so smart! I think maybe a tweak of the settings would fix
this, because HTML is definitely getting through, and these are the
messages with attachments. Personally, I hate HTML messages, so if
there's a way to get rid of them, I'm all for it.

I took a gamble and opened one of the attachments. (It was a .txt file)
Here's what's in it:

h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

That's it, nothing else. And my system hasn't blown up yet. ;o>

~Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Elizabeth Lear
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 6:33 PM
To: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
Century
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus


The mailman software used to run the list was upgraded yesterday.  The
changes you're seeing may be related to that.  I have no idea why you
might be seeing attachments - the list isn't supposed to allow them,
and in fact the new software allows the stripping of HTML from a
text/HTML message.

					...eliz, list admin

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:00:16 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:59:44 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Lansknecht hat
In-reply-to: <004d01c2dda4$18431620$6601a8c0@mycomputer>
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>Hi Kayta-I'd love to see pictures, pointers etc.  Do you need a place to
>put it on the web?  I have a website or we could post it on the German
>Ren Links/files section?

I'll get some instructions together, and then we'll figure out where to put 
them.

>I'd especially like the pointer to the Durer picture.   I had been
>scouting Cranach to no avail.  I will check my Durer book out, but it is
>pretty lame.

It's the picture, in the Dover book of the complete woodcuts of Durer, 
which shows the guy pushing the parade cart.  You see the hat slung over 
his shoulder, and you get a good view, in the Dover close-up, of the top of 
it.  There's another picture, a full-page portrait in the same book, 
showing a close-up of this kind of hat.


Kayta

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:00:28 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:46:29 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: brim slashes (was Re: [h-cost] Landschnecker hat
In-reply-to: <012a01c2ddcb$fca27500$655183d1@rmitchellras>
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The earlier examples, like in Durer woodcuts (c. 1505), have the brim 
pieces slashed so they will curve around the head.  The pieces start out as 
rectangles, and there are two of them.  Folds of the un-slashed part of the 
brim fabric, next to the wearers' heads, can be seen in the 
woodcuts.  (Mine did that too, so I think I got that part right.)

There's a good close-up view of this brim slashing in the Dover book of the 
complete woodcuts of Albrecht Durer.  It's a full page portrait.  There's 
no edge finish shown for the slashes in that portrait, so I guess the 
sitter's hat is felted wool.  There's also no stiffening nor interlining 
visible, nor any puffing.  My hats were of wool coating, needing no 
stiffening, but the brim pieces were narrower than in the later (c. 1530) 
examples.  They were just slightly floppy.

In the Durer portrait, there's no seam shown at the outside edge where I 
sewed two pieces together for the top and bottom of each brim piece.  When 
I slashed thru this seam, the seam allowances showed, and in Durer there is 
no visible seam allowance there.  Brim pieces on the originals may have 
been knitted to shape, then felted, then slashed (English flat-caps were 
knitted, felted, and sometimes slashed).  There's no way to tell from the 
woodcut, which clearly shows the detail of how one piece of trim goes over 
the thickness of another piece of trim.

Later examples, using other peoples' later woodcuts (c. 1530) as examples, 
seem to be made with the brim pieces cut to be a curved shape, and not 
slashed to make them curve.  These 'pizza hats' are huge, compared to the 
Durer ones, and would need some kind of stiffener - they remain perfectly 
flat no matter where they are in the woodcut.

>On the subject of this hat, I had to make one for a customer last spring 
>and was only so-so successful in the piece that was finished.  It is my 
>understanding that the original Landscherneker style in general was a 
>bastardization of the Swiss and Italian army costumes of the period, slit 
>and altered to fit the field gatherer.  Therefore, I looked to the wide 
>brimmed hat of the period as it might have been found in those 
>geographical areas as the starting point. These can be found in early 
>Renaissance drawings, particularly in those of the Doges in Italy. 
>Beginning with the largest felt  blank I could locate, (about 20") I slit 
>the crown in about 6 or 8 cuts making sure they remained connected of the 
>top.  Then, I cut the brim up to about 3"toward the crown, also with about 
>6-8  slits.  Trimming all these vents slightly, I tried rolling the brim 
>pieces upwards and tacked them in place to give the doughnut roll in the 
>pictures. Hand crushing the crown to present the 'windows', I made a very 
>full inner beret for the lining and tacked this in place and was able to 
>get a nice slashed and show effect.  My problem(s) continued, however, on 
>getting the right look for the brim.  We tried running a loose roll of 
>silk cut on the bias through the rolled channel, but it looked too 
>contrived.  After playing with it for a while, it finally made it's way 
>out of the shop.  Then we added the curled feathers and this was ok, but 
>think the feathers weren't thick enough to be too grand. When I do another 
>one, I think I will throw history to the winds and approach the problem 
>through the new technology of millinery arts developed in the succeeding 
>4-5 Hundred years...ie. as I am understanding how some of you are 
>re-creating this chapeau. Or, if there are historical directions 
>available, would like to be put in the 
>Know. 
>Kathleen ( Who survived her dinner party...even with 10 costume (theatre) 
>fittings completed about two hours before 
>'sit-down'.)
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


Kayta

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:09:40 2003
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From: "chiara" 
To: "h-costume" 
References: 
	<000101c2ddd8$4466afd0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
	<20030226233257.GB6348@net.indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:14:28 -0600
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All the attachments are HTML coding. It is not stripping it correctly.

Sincerely,
Franchesca Vecchio Havas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Lear" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"

Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus


>
> The mailman software used to run the list was upgraded yesterday.  The
> changes you're seeing may be related to that.  I have no idea why you
> might be seeing attachments - the list isn't supposed to allow them,
> and in fact the new software allows the stripping of HTML from a
> text/HTML message.
>
> ...eliz, list admin
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "h-costume" 
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:16:29 -0500
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Subject: [h-cost] INCOMING ATTACHMENT
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This is a test to see if attachments are coming through the list.  This is
not a virus, but a test image.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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M+H*EC^]7SB/:>@[RHSR `?7O37MD+!LG/UIR]Z4=*=A7*>H:1!>@":>9RC*VMR\>00"QW=?8UIFG'J*:1+BGNB+1K(:?`T7GM,Y.2[@;OT[4
MEWI]C40A8AB)5B
M5=OXCFICX3L!N^=VR6UQ*C"^B/_]D`
`
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:26:15 2003
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Message-ID: <007001c2ddf5$3ee95400$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: 
	<000101c2ddd8$4466afd0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ>
	<20030226233257.GB6348@net.indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:14:50 -0500
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Eliza,

Could this be it... the new software is letting attachments through.  I will
send a message with an attachment and lets see if it comes through.

Now maybe this is happening...
On other lists that allow attachments, people who are replying to messages
using Netscape or AOL email software AND they do not delete out the old
messages... the old message comes as an attachment.  I did receive about
three attachment messages from a list member on AOL.

Watch and see if my attachment comes through the list on my next message.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:28:27 2003
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Message-ID: <04a601c2ddee$dcca36f0$ba0c8ea7@herselftifhj9g>
From: "Land of Oz" 
To: 
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:29:08 -0600
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this is a message with plain text.

testing for attachments

Denise
landofoz@netins.net

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:34:44 2003
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User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:31:50 -0800
Subject: Re: [h-cost] INCOMING ATTACHMENT
From: Agnes Gawne 
To: Historical Costume 
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: <007901c2ddf5$79930740$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
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I got the aug lady just fine -

Agnes

> From: "Penny Ladnier" 
> Reply-To: Historical Costume 
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:16:29 -0500
> To: "h-costume" 
> Subject: [h-cost] INCOMING ATTACHMENT
> 
> This is a test to see if attachments are coming through the list.  This is
> not a virus, but a test image.
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> 
> 

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:35:50 2003
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User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:36:09 -0800
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
From: Agnes Gawne 
To: Historical Costume 
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: <007001c2ddf5$3ee95400$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
Mime-version: 1.0
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Strangely enough the message with the attachment came through about 10
minutes earlier than this one - and I fear few viruses on the Mac so I
opened the attachment, a lovely lady she was.
Agnes

> From: "Penny Ladnier" 
> Reply-To: Historical Costume 
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:14:50 -0500
> To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the
> mid-20thCentury"
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
> 
> Eliza,
> 
> Could this be it... the new software is letting attachments through.  I will
> send a message with an attachment and lets see if it comes through.
> 
> Now maybe this is happening...
> On other lists that allow attachments, people who are replying to messages
> using Netscape or AOL email software AND they do not delete out the old
> messages... the old message comes as an attachment.  I did receive about
> three attachment messages from a list member on AOL.
> 
> Watch and see if my attachment comes through the list on my next message.
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> 
> 
> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
> (http://www.plugit.com)]
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:37:15 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <007901c2ddf5$79930740$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] INCOMING ATTACHMENT
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:37:07 -0500
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That's it, the list is letting attachments go through!!!!!

A cure: If you are on AOL or Netscape mail, when you reply, delete out
message.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:41:43 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:42:10 -0700
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Subject: [h-cost] Dover print was : Lansknecht hat
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When you have a chance, could you tell us what the name of that woodcut
is?  My book doesn't have it, but it might be on line somewhere.

Thanks

Sg
________________________________

It's the picture, in the Dover book of the complete woodcuts of Durer, 
which shows the guy pushing the parade cart.  You see the hat slung over

his shoulder, and you get a good view, in the Dover close-up, of the top
of 
it.  There's another picture, a full-page portrait in the same book, 
showing a close-up of this kind of hat.


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:51:37 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
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For our wedding in March, my fiance just purchased a wonderful pair of very large 18c shoe buckles from a collector.  When they came in the mail, these were quite a bit larger than he had realized.  We think therefore that they must be rather early, perhaps 1730 or so.  The buckles are decorative, of brass with a nickel wash.  In fact, they are so much bigger than the lachets that the bars show on either side of the buckles when they are attached.
 Would it be proper to fashion some sort of ruching or cockade to cover these bars?  Haven't ever noticed the wearing of buckles and ruched shoe decorations at the same time, but then again, we usually do the common person thing and have less knowledge of fancy dress than we should.  Any good paintings/portraits/museum sites we can look at for ideas?  These buckles are really quite spiffy and my love really wants to find some way these would work.  His shoes are Fugawee Jeffersons in case this matters, which are second half-18c.  We figure maybe
we can say he's wearing grandaddy's shoe buckles for the wedding.  Ideas, help?

Many thanks,
Phoebe


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:51:38 2003
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From: Liz / Cozit 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Landsknecht hat
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I've a friend who's been looking for directions for a Landsknecht hat... 
with little success.  I'm thinking this is the one group that I forgot 
to ask... and the others where I *know* there are a few who have made 
them I've gotten the "I winged it" answer with no hints.

If anyone out there *has* made one and is willing to share directions, 
it'd be great if you'd be willing to post them here (I've seen at least 
2-3 others requesting it).  Or if you've ever seen a place selling a 
pattern for them, that'd be extremely helpful as well (she sews, but 
she's no where near expert).

Thank you,
-Elisabeth

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 20:59:28 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:00:02 -0800
To: Historical Costume 
From: Gwyn Carnegie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dover print was : Lansknecht hat
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I'll take a look for the book tonight myself. I think I know which one she 
is referring to.

There are about 3 types of hats that seem to be common as dirt in the 
Germanic states during that period. I'll see if I can't locate a good image 
of each one. If the image isn't clear enough using my digital camera, I'll 
resort to a line drawing or something.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis

At 05:42 PM 2/26/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>When you have a chance, could you tell us what the name of that woodcut
>is?  My book doesn't have it, but it might be on line somewhere.
>
>Thanks
>Sg
>________________________________
>
>It's the picture, in the Dover book of the complete woodcuts of Durer,
>which shows the guy pushing the parade cart.  You see the hat slung over
>
>his shoulder, and you get a good view, in the Dover close-up, of the top
>of
>it.  There's another picture, a full-page portrait in the same book,
>showing a close-up of this kind of hat.

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I'll take a look for the book tonight myself. I think I know which one
she is referring to. 


There are about 3 types of hats that seem to be common as dirt in the
Germanic states during that period. I'll see if I can't locate a good
image of each one. If the image isn't clear enough using my digital
camera, I'll resort to a line drawing or something.


Gwyn Carnegie

University of California, Davis 


At 05:42 PM 2/26/2003 -0700, you wrote:


When you have a chance, could you
tell us what the name of that woodcut

is?  My book doesn't have it, but it might be on line
somewhere.


Thanks

Sg

________________________________


It's the picture, in the Dover book of the complete woodcuts of Durer,


which shows the guy pushing the parade cart.  You see the hat slung
over


his shoulder, and you get a good view, in the Dover close-up, of the
top

of 

it.  There's another picture, a full-page portrait in the same book,


showing a close-up of this kind of hat.



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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 21:01:36 2003
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From: "Glenda Robinson" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030226.122658.-379211.6.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair -streaks
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:06:14 +1100
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My husband's mother and grandmother have/had the white streak too, from
about the same age.
Nanas ancestry was mainly Welsh, with a bit of Irish, Scots and Breton. The
rest of her hair didn't go grey at all - she died in her 60s.

Glenda.

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:23 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair -streaks


>         It is possible that the German (light hair) in combination with
> the other races with very dark hair could be the reason for the streaks.
> I don't think the original poster said the Native American's had streaks,
> only the mixed races.
>
>         Just as a side note I had a white streak in my hair that
> developed in my twenties (wasn't born with it) and my ancestory is mostly
> Irish, Scots, Welsh, and Choctaw.
>
> Lalah
> Never give up, Never surrender
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 21:18:11 2003
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The funniest thing... when I was in my early 30s, my hair started getting
lighter at my temples.  I thought, OMG, I am turning back blonde.  I
wondered for months.  I was very blonde until 6 y.o.  then it turned a med.
brown with red highlights.  Well when more of this lighter hair came in...
it started looking more gray.  Well now it is all gray!!! (dyed red of
course).

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: [h-cost] Landschneker hat
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Carolyn, thank you so much for the description of how to do the 'rolls'. =
 I will have to try your method description out.  Also for the reminder =
that Durer (Dover) has some good illustrations to study.  I 'm not sure =
just where my customer got his pictures, but their certainly weren't =
those! I hate to attack a problem and not solve it at least to an =
aesthetic  conclusion.                                                   =
   Kath leen   And one of these days I will have Elizabeth First =
completed...you gave me her measurements some time  ago.                 =
                                                          
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Carolyn, thank you so much for the description of =
how to do=20
the 'rolls'.  I will have to try your method description out.  =
Also=20
for the reminder that Durer (Dover) has some good illustrations to =
study. =20
I 'm not sure just where my customer got his pictures, but their =
certainly=20
weren't those! I hate to attack a problem and not solve it at least to=20
an aesthetic  conclusion.     &nb=
sp;=20
            =
   =20
            =
   =20
           =20
   Kath leen   And one of these days =
I will=20
have Elizabeth First completed...you gave me her measurements some=20
time  ago.         =
;            =
            &=
nbsp;           &n=
bsp;           &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p;    =20



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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 21:32:16 2003
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Message-ID: <006c01c2de01$61a17520$120b77d8@pavilion>
From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <1d6.3bc91ea.2b8e577a@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:41:40 -0800
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        Historical Costume
	
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Julia,

Thanks for taking the time to re-do the introduction.  Unfortunately =
unsolicited, anonymous requests for personal information from people =
offering vague backgrounds and free merchandise get lumped immediately =
into the probable "scam" category.  It was surprising that a reputable =
journalist would construct an introduction with those attributes, but a =
delightful surprise none the less.  I think you will have a great deal =
of support from h-cost list members.  I'm very interested and look =
forward to the first issue.

Lisa

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: JAzo478796@aol.com=20
  To: h-costume@indra.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:46 AM
  Subject: [h-cost] new magazine - another try


  Dear h-Cost list:
  After receiving so many hostile, shocking responses to the =
announcement I made about our new magazine, I unsubscribed to the list.  =
A very kind member, however, suggested I give it another go for a few =
reasons and I took her intelligent advice.

  A number of months ago, many of you responded to a post I had made =
about magazines addressing historical fashion and textiles by suggesting =
I start one of my own.  It's a lot of very hard work to do that, but I =
pursued and we're now ready to announce our launch.  I had gotten in =
touch with the list because I was under the impression that many of you =
would be interested.  It never occured to me to sell the mailing list to =
advertisers - I'm a professional journalist, not a flim-flam artist. As =
for any invasion of privacy,  I assumed you'd be sending me work =
addresses, not personal addresses - although I now realize that for many =
of us, they're one and the same.  Your phone numbers are certainly not =
necessary; my assumption was that you'd see that as optional - and was =
simply my effort at creating a more complete mailing list for myself.
  Here's more about me and the project:
  We plan to have our first issue on the shelves in May.  Our first =
issue is going to have a bunch of nice juicy articles (interviews with a =
former set and costume designer who has been hired by a wealthy =
philanthropist to build a museum collection - she's talking about all =
the factors that go into creating a collection and choosing pieces from =
all over the world; also an interview with one of the finest historical =
costume designers/creators for cinema in the world, based in Italy); =
lots of great book reviews; photo spreads from costume musems, etc.  =
We're also going to cover spinning, dyeing and weaving and the whole =
issue of recreating and/or conserving textiles.
  And we're going to include information and stories from all over the =
world, not just the U.S.
  Also:  I really meant it in my introductory letter that we're =
welcoming input from prospective readers - what you feel is missing out =
there and what should be covered in the magazine.
  I've been a contributing editor for many years with Fairchild =
Publications, which puts out Women's Wear Daily and other =
fashion/apparel titles.
  I had kind of envisioned that people from the h-cost list would have a =
lot of friends/colleagues in the field and would *want* to forward me a =
lot of names and addresses for our first mailing.  We're printing =
thousands of copies and we want to send them to people who care about =
the field - readers who will be *interested*.  We're specifically =
addressing people who might have shops or teach or  work, in some sense, =
in the field of costume. I had actually hoped they'd welcome the new =
magazine as this entire field of work and interest isn't currently being =
addressed..

  We'll also have classified ads and we'll be listing interesting =
events, lectures, workshops etc. as well as Letters to the Editor.  I'm =
going to give it another go at being on the h-cost list but PLEASE =
remember that it is very hard work to launch and maintain a new magazine =
and please realize that ugly accusations can be very toxic. =20

  If, on the other hand, you have any friends (overseas or in the U.S.) =
who might be interested in this magazine, please give them our email =
address (fashionreporting@aol.com) because we do want to make sure we =
reach a broad audience and get the word out.  Our web site will be up as =
soon as possible - remember, this is a LOT of work.
  Thank you for your patience,
  Julia



-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


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  http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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Julia,


 


Thanks for taking the time to re-do the =

introduction.  Unfortunately unsolicited, anonymous requests for =
personal=20
information from people offering vague backgrounds and free merchandise =
get=20
lumped immediately into the probable "scam" category.  It was=20
surprising that a reputable journalist would construct an introduction =
with=20
those attributes, but a delightful surprise none the less.  I think =
you=20
will have a great deal of support from h-cost list members.  I'm =
very=20
interested and look forward to the first issue.


 


Lisa


 


----- Original Message ----- 


  From:=20
  JAzo478796@aol.com 
  
  
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, =
2003 9:46=20
  AM

  
Subject: [h-cost] new magazine =
- another=20
  try

  

Dear h-Cost list:
After receiving so many =
hostile,=20
  shocking responses to the announcement I made about our new magazine, =
I=20
  unsubscribed to the list.  A very kind member, however, suggested =
I give=20
  it another go for a few reasons and I took her intelligent =
advice.

A=20
  number of months ago, many of you responded to a post I had made about =

  magazines addressing historical fashion and textiles by suggesting I =
start one=20
  of my own.  It's a lot of very hard work to do that, but I =
pursued and=20
  we're now ready to announce our launch.  I had gotten in touch =
with the=20
  list because I was under the impression that many of you would be=20
  interested.  It never occured to me to sell the mailing list to=20
  advertisers - I'm a professional journalist, not a flim-flam artist. =
As for=20
  any invasion of privacy,  I assumed you'd be sending me work =
addresses,=20
  not personal addresses - although I now realize that for many of us, =
they're=20
  one and the same.  Your phone numbers are certainly not =
necessary; my=20
  assumption was that you'd see that as optional - and was simply my =
effort at=20
  creating a more complete mailing list for myself.
Here's more about =
me and=20
  the project:
We plan to have our first issue on the shelves in May. =

   Our first issue is going to have a bunch of nice juicy articles=20
  (interviews with a former set and costume designer who has been hired =
by a=20
  wealthy philanthropist to build a museum collection - she's talking =
about all=20
  the factors that go into creating a collection and choosing pieces =
from all=20
  over the world; also an interview with one of the finest historical =
costume=20
  designers/creators for cinema in the world, based in Italy); lots of =
great=20
  book reviews; photo spreads from costume musems, etc.  We're also =
going=20
  to cover spinning, dyeing and weaving and the whole issue of =
recreating and/or=20
  conserving textiles.
And we're going to include information and =
stories=20
  from all over the world, not just the U.S.
Also:  I really =
meant it in=20
  my introductory letter that we're welcoming input from prospective =
readers -=20
  what you feel is missing out there and what should be covered in the=20
  magazine.
I've been a contributing editor for many years with =
Fairchild=20
  Publications, which puts out Women's Wear Daily and other =
fashion/apparel=20
  titles.
I had kind of envisioned that people from the h-cost list =
would=20
  have a lot of friends/colleagues in the field and would *want* to =
forward me a=20
  lot of names and addresses for our first mailing.  We're printing =

  thousands of copies and we want to send them to people who care about =
the=20
  field - readers who will be *interested*.  We're specifically =
addressing=20
  people who might have shops or teach or  work, in some sense, in =
the=20
  field of costume. I had actually hoped they'd welcome the new magazine =
as this=20
  entire field of work and interest isn't currently being=20
  addressed..

We'll also have classified ads and we'll be listing =

  interesting events, lectures, workshops etc. as well as Letters to the =
Editor.=20
   I'm going to give it another go at being on the h-cost list but =
PLEASE=20
  remember that it is very hard work to launch and maintain a new =
magazine and=20
  please realize that ugly accusations can be very toxic.  =


If, on=20
  the other hand, you have any friends (overseas or in the U.S.) who =
might be=20
  interested in this magazine, please give them our email address=20
  (fashionreporting@aol.com) because we do want to make sure we reach a =
broad=20
  audience and get the word out.  Our web site will be up as soon =
as=20
  possible - remember, this is a LOT of work.
Thank you for your=20
  patience,
Julia

  

  


  
_______________________________________________
h-costume =
mailing=20
  =
list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinf=
o/h-costume


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 21:32:55 2003
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Message-ID: <009901c2de00$b7a67160$6c5183d1@rmitchellras>
From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: 
	<000c01c2dd9e$22393160$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><01d601c2ddcd$a5b56d40$db457a43@angelap3a8d978>
	<002801c2ddd0$08114200$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:36:56 -0500
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Bjarne, I sometimes wonder who is minding the shop when valuable costumes
are lent to museums that are supposed to be in the know about how to exhibit
such valuables with good preservation methods.  They are always first with
pamphlets and manuals telling us ordinary folk how to treat our textiles,
but are often short on keeping things on loan in a manner that  would insure
preservation.  I have had a similar experience with some of my old things
but they were not of the quality or value of yours. And when the venue is
prestigious, one should not have to quiz them about their display
regulations.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"

Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit


Hello.
Oh thankyou thankyou. This was very kind said.
I have given it a thoaght what should happend with it.
When i go to the Georgian Ball, i might get a taste to it and want to go
regularly. Then there is the swedish society Gustafs Skål. They are having
picnics in the summertime and ball in the autumn. For a picnic it would not
fit in, two formal, but the autumn ball is held in a small manorhouse
outside Stockholm and i have the feeling i will love it.
Castle Selsoe did not take enough care of my costumes i think. They were
sitting on the dress stands all winter long, and there is very cold there
and very damp, so it is not good for the costumes. Besides, the renaissance
dress i made was placed in the sunshine and it has almost lost its colour.
Therefore i have desided not to donate any more costumes there.
Some years there has ben exhibition of peoples embroidery in some nice
showrooms at Frederiksberg. I have thoaght about, i might could exhibit it
there..........
Thanks for your phraise, i am very pleased that people like it.

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cabbage Rose" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"

Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit


> YOU TAKE MY BREATH AWAY!  Honestly there ought to be a national museum for
> stuff YOU make!
>
> I am just sitting here drooling in my morning coffee.
>
> Wow
>
> angela
> +++++
> Angela F. Lazear
> Cabbage Rose Costumes
> http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com
> Theatrical Costume Design
>
> "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults
>  looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..."
> The Merry Wives of Windsor, III, iv - W. Shakespeare
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:51 AM
> Subject: [h-cost] book sale
>
>
> > Hi!
> > I got a large catalogue today from the bookstore.
> > Amongst the sales books is this:
> > Aileen Ribeiro: Ingres in Fashion 160 pages 60 colour photographs.
> > Does any of you have this? Is it worth bying?
> > Oh, there are so many books i want to buy, but i have hardly any room
left
> > on my bookshelves anymore.
> > Anyway my pages are updated with photos of the jacket now.
> > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
> >
> > Bjarne who is sitting and making pockets,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> >
> >
> >
> > Leif og Bjarne Drews
> > www.my-drewscostumes.dk
> >
> > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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Bjarne, sorry, I for got to sign my post...Kathleen
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Bjarne, sorry, I for got to sign my=20
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 22:30:47 2003
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Julia,

I'm also interested in this magazine.  As most others on the list have said, 
with the amount of spam flying around the Internet these days, it's difficult 
to tell who's real from who wants to steal our fortunes (not that I actually 
*have* a fortune to steal.  College bills, anyone?)
In terms of what articles I'd like to see, I'd really love to see a regular 
listing of different fashion design, textile, and related courses available 
through "continuing education" programs.  I'm looking into one for myself 
over the summer, and all I can find in the northeast are two that I'm 
eligible for!  They're rather expensive, as well.

Christine

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Julia,



I'm also interested in this magazine.  As most others on the list have=20=
said, with the amount of spam flying around the Internet these days, it's di=
fficult to tell who's real from who wants to steal our fortunes (not that I=20=
actually *have* a fortune to steal.  College bills, anyone?)

In terms of what articles I'd like to see, I'd really love to see a regular=20=
listing of different fashion design, textile, and related courses available=20=
through "continuing education" programs.  I'm looking into one for myse=
lf over the summer, and all I can find in the northeast are two that I'm eli=
gible for!  They're rather expensive, as well.



Christine

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 22:32:19 2003
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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
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Subject: [h-cost] Self-Illuminating fabric
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For any of you who do not confine your efforts purely to historic fabric, 
here's an article about one of the newest developments in 
textiles--self-illuminating fabric--

http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2003/feb/glow/index.html

and here's the manufacturer's site:

http://www.luminex.it/index_eng.html

The manufacturer claims that the stuff is woven from optic fibers.
Judging by the photos, it looks like white satin by daylight, but glows in 
different colors (e.g., blue, green, orangish) in the dark.
-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
Subject: Re: [h-cost] book sale
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:18:53 -0500
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On Wednesday 26 February 2003 08:51 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:
[text cut here]

> Anyway my pages are updated with photos of the jacket now.
> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/suitembroidery.htm
>
> Bjarne who is sitting and making pockets,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Stunning.  Bjarne, you must put photos of you wearing the 
waistcoat and jacket together (with the breeches, I assume there are, or will 
be, breeches, right?)

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 23:14:36 2003
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From: "Kendra Van Cleave" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <110.20a24fc7.2b8ed230@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:14:06 -0800
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Julia,

I second what everyone else has said about not taking the listserv responses
as hostile -- while I didn't respond, I did wait to see whether your
original email was legitimate.  Now that I see it is, I'm very excited and
will send you my contact info privately.

As far as what I'd like to see in the magazine, well, EVERYTHING, but here
goes:
- exhibition, film, and book reviews
- interviews with museum curators, scholars working on the history of
fashion, and working costume designers and technicians (theater, film, etc.)
- information on how the various costume-related businesses work, from
for-hire costuming to the vintage clothing industry to costume shops for
theater, film, tv, etc.

- Kendra

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 23:17:45 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:18:05 -0800
From: kris 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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At 11:28 AM 26/02/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>It sounds really fabulous?  Will you know soon what the price may be?  I'm 
>assuming it isn't free?  Are you selling subscriptions yet? Do let us all 
>know when you reach that point.
>
>As for folks being hostile, I think that unfortunately spammers have 
>pretty much  killed the days of folks reading email re: any new venture 
>without suspicion, but your response allayed my questions and the mag 
>sounds really scrumptious.
>
>An interesting topic to me would be articles on folks who run theatre 
>and/or film shops, who and how they hire, how they approach the day to day 
>running, etc.,  anything on all museums around the world, interviews with 
>anyone who's ever been nominated for Oscars or Tonys, or even smaller 
>localized work.  Designers of runway/catwalk collections, especially the 
>young up and comers... that's all I can think of for now.
>
>angela


My take on this is that if it had come through the h-cost list, with full 
h-cost headers, and the moderators approval, I wouldn't have thought it was 
spam and probably responded to it in a "wow! this is awesome" way rather 
than the "how the h*ll did this email address get spammed" way. I've got an 
account for spam.. it's on my web site and I use it for posting to usenet. 
This is my account for closed member email lists, so it was quite shocking 
to get something I didn't recognize as coming from a list.

my 2 cents
kris 

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:15:33 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dover print was : Lansknecht hat
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>When you have a chance, could you tell us what the name of that woodcut
>is?  My book doesn't have it, but it might be on line somewhere.

Assuming we both have the same book, and relying on memory only, as my 
copy's not at hand:

Portrait - the only full-page portrait in the book, and is located 
somewhere past the middle.  It's a guy looking to our right, wearing a 
slashed hat, shirt, and that skirted vest thing (only the top of which 
shows).  He has a scraggly beard, and it is known who he is (do I remember 
text in the portrait?).

Guy pushing parade cart - this was toward the back in my edition, and the 
thing of most interest, besides him, is a group of figures pictured on the 
side of the cart (more of a parade float than a farmer's wagon).  The 
figures are about half life-size, using the pushing guy as reference.  The 
cart is really fancy, with carving and stuff, and I think there are people 
riding in it, like somebody holding a wreath over Maximillian I's head.  I 
think the book said it was from a triumphal procession, or from the designs 
for one.

Book, Dover - it claimed it was the complete woodcuts of Albrecht Durer, 
not his drawings or his etchings, which are different books.  It's large, 
like 9"x12", and mine is about an inch thick (and has a red cover).  I got 
mine years ago, and made my second SCA Germans (1973 Twelfthnight?) using 
it - I did the dress of the lady on the side of the same cart and nearest 
the viewer, in fact.  I still have that dress too - %*&@# but my costuming 
has come a long way since then...

Kayta

    //// \\\
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   (((  <> ))))
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/----\   /---\))

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:22:16 -0800
From: kris 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit
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>Castle Selsoe did not take enough care of my costumes i think. They were
>sitting on the dress stands all winter long, and there is very cold there
>and very damp, so it is not good for the costumes. Besides, the renaissance
>dress i made was placed in the sunshine and it has almost lost its colour.
>Therefore i have desided not to donate any more costumes there.
>Some years there has ben exhibition of peoples embroidery in some nice
>showrooms at Frederiksberg. I have thoaght about, i might could exhibit it
>there..........
>Thanks for your phraise, i am very pleased that people like it.
>
>Bjarne

That's horrible that the museum didn't take care of your art. Did you 
gently (and very tactfully) remind them that each article you create takes 
many hours of work and is worth (insert extreme dollar amount here), and 
you had expected they would realize the value and care for them properly?

me being a brat again,
kris
(I had a horrible day. The company I work for has gone to liquidation and 
*everyone* is "why are you closing? I thought this location was staying 
open?" argh. Us employees haven't been told what's going on.)

http://members.shaw.ca/ionization/ 

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Wed Feb 26 23:30:51 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:31:04 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is there a new virus
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Okay, I've made some tweaks to the settings, so it should reject
attachments again now.  (fingers crossed)

					...eliz

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Message-ID: <3E5D9749.E7C8375B@faucet.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:42:49 -0600
From: Melanie Schuessler 
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To: Historical Costume 
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	<200302262218.53798.cathy@thyrsus.com>
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Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's coat
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Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
> 
> Stunning.  Bjarne, you must put photos of you wearing the
> waistcoat and jacket together (with the breeches, I assume there are, or will
> be, breeches, right?)

I second this request!  The waistcoat is lovely, but the jacket is
positively stunning.  My only disappointment was not being able to see
it modelled by the master himself.

Melanie Schuessler
http://www.faucet.net/costume
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 00:01:15 2003
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From: "Lyn Greaves- home" 
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <20030226.122658.-379211.3.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:01:22 -0500
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I got to the intro page in English- telling me about the exhibition.

Did anyone get the individual pages in English?


Lyn Greaves
Lady Rosamund d'Alwareton
COM, COTerpsichore, COSalamander



----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow! Anyone speak Swedish?


>         I wrote the email address on the website and asked if there were
> an English translation.  I got this message this morning.
> 
> << press  - then the front page in English - then exhibitions
>  
> kindest regards
>  
> Margareta Berglund Hamngren
> Livrustkammaren
> Slottsbacken 3
> 111 30 Stockholm
> epost: margareta.berglund@lsh.se
> www.livrustkammaren.se
> tel:  08 - 519 555 46
> fax: 08 - 519 555 11>>> 
> 
> Lalah
> Never give up, Never surrender
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 00:02:34 2003
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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's coat
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:42:01 -0500
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On Wednesday 26 February 2003 11:42 pm, Melanie Schuessler wrote:
> Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
> > Stunning.  Bjarne, you must put photos of you wearing the
> > waistcoat and jacket together (with the breeches, I assume there are, or
> > will be, breeches, right?)
>
> I second this request!  The waistcoat is lovely, but the jacket is
> positively stunning.  My only disappointment was not being able to see
> it modelled by the master himself.

Agreed!  But I'd like to note that what impressed me was not just the artistry 
of the embroidery on both waistcoat and jacket, but the way they coordinate 
with each other (which is, of course, beautifully and perfectly period).  I 
was thinking that as marvelous as both garments are, they will be even more 
stunning worn together.


-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 00:21:29 2003
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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
To: 
References: <200302260804.AAA17689@gw.retro.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Textile Technology-smell in your clothes!
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:14:53 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Thompson-Herbert" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Textile Technology-smell in your clothes!


>
> "Saragrace Knauf"  wrote:
> >Just heard on the news that scientists have figured out how to 'weave'
> >smell into your clothes!  The 'smell' particles are activated by
> >movement and heat and are waterproof.  So you can machine wash the
> >fabric!
>
> Great, one more thing for me to be allergic to. ;}
>


One more layer for the people who marinate themselves in scent. I'm coming
home from work with a splitting headache every day from people who wear so
much that I can smell--and TASTE -- their perfume from 20 feet away. oh joy.

Dianne

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 00:42:51 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:36:21 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
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Subject: [h-cost] landsknecht hat, scratchy illos available
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I don't have access to a scanner, so I did some (regrettably scratchy) 
illos of how to make my version of a Landsknecht hat c. 1505.  The great 
big later ones are different than mine, and you'll have to figure them out 
by yourself.  All I know is the earlier ones.  These illos are to be taken 
as schematics only, without exact measurements, to be used for method 
only.  Copyright on the poor little things is mine.

If you want one, e-mail me privately, and I will attach all 7 GIFs for you.

Kayta

    //// \\\
   ////-@@\\\
  ((((   7 )))
   (((  <> ))))
      )   ((((((
/----\   /---\))

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 00:54:08 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
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	<5.2.0.9.0.20030226191459.00bc0db8@shawmail.gv.shawcable.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:51:35 -0500
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This email list aren't as closed as one would think.  Go to the search
engines and type in your name... some of your old messages to email lists
are there.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 01:06:07 2003
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From: "Janet Davis" 
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I'm glad you wrote us back - after Robin mentioned it, I remembered your original post several months ago, but until then I thought it was some complete stranger who may or may not be legit.  Now that we are using out ISP's spam filter, it's not bad, but my significant other replied to something on a martial arts list he was on and we were deluged with spam - in Korean.  I think the magazine sounds great!

Janet

Janet Davis
Castle Furnishings
http://www.medievalbookstore.com 
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Subject: [h-cost] 18th century petticoat length.
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Greetings,

Now that I have a bit of time for this list again, I have a question.  What 
is the correct length for a well-dressed woman/lady's petticoat from the 
1860's& early 1770s? I've been looking at all the pictures I can find from 
around this time period but very few seem to correspond with the extant 
clothing.  I was just looking at all the saque-back gowns in Revolution in 
Fashion and realized that in almost all of them, the petticoat came to 
about ankle height, while the matching skirts of the gowns were ground 
length or longer.  Are they supposed to be like this or is this a quirk 
from that exhibition?  Ashelford's "Art of Dress" doesn't show the bottom 
portion of a gown of the same style so I can't tell if other exhibits 
showed them in the same fashion.  : )  The red brocade gown from 1770 from 
the Bath Costume Museum seems to show the opposite - the petticoat is 
longer than the gown.

I wasn't able to find images relating to the style I like in Ribeiro's 
"Dress in Eighteenth-Century Europe" or in fashion plates either so I can 
only conclude, I'm not looking for high fashion.

So, now I'm left quite confused.  Can anyone point me to some definitive 
sources?

Cheers,
Danielle

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 02:41:24 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "h-costume" 
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:37:55 -0500
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Subject: [h-cost] RE: Hair Streaks
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I have really enjoyed all your responses about the Devil's Streaks.  Your
observations are very enlightening... I forgot about Kitty B. and Bonnie R.
streaks.  It is really interesting how many people with Streaks have an
English/Welsh combo with somewhere else.

The incidence I mentioned with the group of old ladies is not the only time
someone has mentioned these as Devil's Streaks.  Here and there over the
years, other old black ladies have recognized my daughter as mixed race
because of the Devil's Streaks.

I have spend a lot of time talking with elderly women.  I want my daughter
to know a lot of how women lived years ago... a lot can be passed down in
Old Wives Tales.  This one with the Devil's Streaks has had me thinking for
a long time as to why these women call it this name.  If you talk a lot with
the elderly, there is usually a reason for things they say and did in the
past.

I must say, no one I have talked with outside of the Richmond, VA metro has
called the streaks this name.  These local elderly women are the only ones
who has guessed she was mixed.  So it makes me wonder if Devil's Streaks is
a title/name that has been passed down from the local plantation days.

Just been wondering about the origin of these words for so many years.  I
know!!! I will as my friend who is a local black history curator.  I'll get
back with you if she knows the origin.

Another piece of trivia...
One time a very light-skinned black teacher, who I worked with, took me to
the ladies room and showed me how you can tell a black-mixed person.  We had
been discussing the old ladies' conversation. She showed me from the center
of the chest down the abdomen is a bright white streak.  She said when the
body is forming, this is the place when the skin wraps around and joins
together.  This was how you could tell a mixed child by the bright white
streak.  Now I know for a fact that this is how the face forms with
layers... learned that in my infant growth and development college classes.
But I had not hear before that this is how the trunk of the body forms.
Anyways, my daughter has the bright white line on her body's trunk.

Old Wives Tales are like untangling yarn... sometimes it just leads into
another tangle.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 02:48:36 2003
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From: "Stephen Bergdahl" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <4.3.1.2.20030226203114.04e52620@mail.frys.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] landsknecht hat, scratchy illos available
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:42:33 -0800
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Kayta

Please I would love a copy.  And if you want, I have room on my web site, if
you want to have a page.

Stephen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 8:36 PM
Subject: [h-cost] landsknecht hat, scratchy illos available


> I don't have access to a scanner, so I did some (regrettably scratchy)
> illos of how to make my version of a Landsknecht hat c. 1505.  The great
> big later ones are different than mine, and you'll have to figure them out
> by yourself.  All I know is the earlier ones.  These illos are to be taken
> as schematics only, without exact measurements, to be used for method
> only.  Copyright on the poor little things is mine.
>
> If you want one, e-mail me privately, and I will attach all 7 GIFs for
you.
>
> Kayta
>
>     //// \\\
>    ////-@@\\\
>   ((((   7 )))
>    (((  <> ))))
>       )   ((((((
> /----\   /---\))
>
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 03:22:14 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "h-costume" 
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Subject: [h-cost] Thank you!!!
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Eliza,

Thank you for taking care of the attachment problem.  You were so prompt!  I
haven't seen a single attachment since you tweaked the system.

Gosh... earlier it was like curiosity killing the cat!  My rule is to never
open attachments without prior warning... and to see all those messages with
attachments was almost to tempting to resist!

Thanks again for all your hard work!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
To: Historical Costume 
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 --- kris  wrote: > 
> My take on this is that if it had come through the h-cost list, with full 
> h-cost headers, and the moderators approval, 

There is no such thing as the moderator's approval. Eliz definitely doesn't
look ateach mesage before it is allowed on the list thus you can post what you
like before it is found out. Also, membership is not by approval but is
automated. I am afraid to say that even on email lists, no matter where they
are hosted, you ahve to be just as careful as out there in the big wide nasty
internet-world.

Gosh I SO miss the good old sweet and innocent days of the beginnings of the
Internet. Oh well.

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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> Gosh I SO miss the good old sweet and innocent days of the beginnings of
the
> Internet. Oh well.
>
> Nicole

But at that time you didn't have nearly as much information and services as
you have now. A few years ago you couldn't shop online, and doing research
was hard! I guess it can never be perfect...
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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From: "N Kipar" 
> Gosh I SO miss the good old sweet and innocent days of the beginnings of
the
> Internet. Oh well.

Yeah but there's only so much information you can store on an Apple II

Paul
--
It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky
http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder
Costumier & Reprobate

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
To: Historical Costume 
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 --- Baralier  wrote: > From: "N Kipar"

> > Gosh I SO miss the good old sweet and innocent days of the beginnings of
> the
> > Internet. Oh well.
> 
> Yeah but there's only so much information you can store on an Apple II

*LOL* Yeah, well, I was lucky, I saw the big exciting world of the already
colourful internet for the first time from University computer labs in the
computing department using Unix and good old Mozilla and had shortly after
constant access via Uni because I worked there. I do remember the days of
Atari... where the whole computer fitted into the admitedly thick keyboard...

Costume content... hmmm... oh yes, I found fantastic buttons in York and lovely
trim, currently working on a waistcoat.

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 05:25:17 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Vintage Magazine
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Robin and Julia (if you are here),

Thank you for informing us about Julia and the publication.  I don't recall
Julia talking on the list about magazines.  It must have been when I was
down with my back.  I was deleting a lot of mail at the time except business
related.

Spam vs. Legit Email
Over 50% of my mail is spam everyday.  I am forever receiving email spam
from this company or that, selling whatever product fashion related.
Because of that, I have gone to a strict protocol when working with
journalist, newspapers, magazines, etc.  The most important rule is that a
the sender's full name, the business name, position, and phone number are
supplied in the email signature.  This just tells me that they are
professional and are probably legitimate.  The only email messages that I
receive with phone numbers are professionals in the industry.  We also do
not use *first names only* until we have corresponded a couple of times.  I
can't tell you how many emails I am receiving from spammers named *Susan.*
At first, I thought it is my asst. Susan.

One more suggestion, the AOL address put up a red flag for me.  I receive so
much spam from phony AOL, yahoo, & hotmail addresses.  We have a policy to
not reply to businesses who do not have a mybusinessname.com in the email
address.  The only reason I didn't delete Julia's message was that I saw
messages from h-costume about it.  So wanted to see what was up.

As for talking with the list...

Those of us on h-costume through the years have enjoyed watching one another
hopes and dreams grow into something tangible.  Either thoses dreams being a
costume made or a business venture.  It makes us feel like we are part of
the process.  We all learn from one another's mistakes, gains, and
experience.  BUT we like to be part of those processes as a group.  I wish
Julia would have kept us updated with her decisions with the progress of her
business venture.  We can make a great group of cheerleaders.  I remember
how thrilling it was to see Margo and Jennie make their pattern businesses
from an idea to reality.  And it is wonderful when they came on and gave us
updates on their business' progress or asked for advice on a regular basis.
Over the years we have watched a lot of wonderful costumes made
step-by-step.  And o-o-o-o and ah-h-h-h-h-ed when it was finished.

Personally, I love the feedback about my work from h-costume members.  They
see a lot of what I do before anyone else.  I know they will be honest with
me if one of my hair-brained ideas will really work or not.  Of all the
email lists I am on, I pay the most attention to h-costume.  Why? Because
the members are very diverse, in location, topics, time periods, ages, and
experience.  I love chatting with the lurkers as much as the regulars.
Remember there are a lot of lurkers in h-costume-land and their opinions are
very important.  Where else in the world could you get this type of
feedback?

If Julia is reading this... the best thing you can do is listen to and
participate in h-costume threads and you will know what people want to read
about.  I listen all the time to what they want to learn about, the books
they read, films they watch, and favorite time periods.  Then I do my best
to find it for them and put it on my website.  The topics to research and
present as articles are endless.

How we all help one another on h-costume... an old thread
Tonight I was doing a search for my name on a search engine.  I came up with
dozens of websites that referred to my documentation on Elizabethan Color
Names. Drea put the work on her website after seeing my primary work on
color names that I sent to h-costume.  Drea doing this got my foot in the
door and my name recognized.  Drea and I met through h-costume.  The whole
idea of researching color names came from one question asked on h-costume
asked in 1997... I think it was R.L. Shep who asked, "What color is Dead
Spaniard?"  I thought it was the funniest thing ever.  We had the best time
with this thread.  But made me so curious as to what color was it really
was.  This one question has lead me on the quest of my life... to document
color names and trends throughout fashion history.  Diane Close who was the
list master at the time worked with me on how to present my first research.
No, I didn't know how to do it before, or had worked with Diane before.  I
was as green as the grass. People on the list told me of great publications
to research.  Others sent me documentation from their personal collections.
The point is... this was a group effort.  The wonderful thing is that one
funny little question, turned into such a large project that it couldn't be
done alone. These people really do encourage you to do your best and will
help you learn from their experiences and resources.

JuIia, I would really love to see your magazine be the very best.  People on
this list have seen magazines come and go over the years.  They could
probably offer some great advice along your journey.

Good luck!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 05:42:11 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030227091441.47815.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:37:59 -0500
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Okay, Nicole and Paul, what year did you start on the internet?

Mine was 1995... we used Unix at the university for email.  The university
also made every class I took go to an orientation on how to use the www. In
1996, I took the first classes offered at our college in web development and
another, in fashion drawing on computers. Boy, was I hooked then.  Another
class... I still use what I learned... layout for fashion magazines and the
web.

LOL... Nicole I worked my response into the list's topic.  What was the
first costume website you went to on the web?  Mine was the Costume Page.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:14 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try


> --- Baralier  wrote: > From: "N Kipar"
> 
> > > Gosh I SO miss the good old sweet and innocent days of the beginnings
of
> > the
> > > Internet. Oh well.
> >
> > Yeah but there's only so much information you can store on an Apple II
>
> *LOL* Yeah, well, I was lucky, I saw the big exciting world of the already
> colourful internet for the first time from University computer labs in the
> computing department using Unix and good old Mozilla and had shortly after
> constant access via Uni because I worked there. I do remember the days of
> Atari... where the whole computer fitted into the admitedly thick
keyboard...
>
> Costume content... hmmm... oh yes, I found fantastic buttons in York and
lovely
> trim, currently working on a waistcoat.
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> "Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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>
>


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 06:05:08 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
To: Historical Costume 
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 --- Penny Ladnier  wrote: > Okay, Nicole and Paul,
what year did you start on the internet?
> 
> Mine was 1995... we used Unix at the university for email. 

Here too! I really got started in 1996 though and had everyday access at
Uni/work from Jan 1997, very soon after I made my first web pages. I was SO
hooked too. Ever since I keep saying 'I used to have a life before I had a
computer' *LOL*

> LOL... Nicole I worked my response into the list's topic.  What was the
> first costume website you went to on the web?  Mine was the Costume Page.

Ohhhhh, I remember! The very first one I ever saw was 'The Vikings' NFPS
re-enactment group in the UK and the very second one was 'Angelcynn Anglo-saxon
living history' by this person called Ben over in the UK, and I became a member
of both society. Well.... the rest I guess is history, I have been living here
in England with Ben since over three years. Yes, indeed, we are one of the
early Internet-brought-them-together couples.
I didn't actually look up 'costumes' as the first thing to search for, but
'Anglo-Saxon'.

Nicole - suddenly transported back in time :-)

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 06:09:59 2003
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To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20thCentury"
	
References: <200302261352.FAA18613@gw.retro.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: pain relievers, with obligatory costume content.
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:10:07 +1300
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> Acetamenophen and paracetamol are the same thing.  And neither is good for
> you if you're already on:
> > Arava, Salazopyren and Methotrexate to deal with the disease itself...
not
> > really that terrific as I'm still on 7 1/2mg predders.
>

lol! Yeah I was wondering why Panadol was listed in a page I saw after
sending my email;)

> I just crashed and burned methotrexate therapy a couple months ago.  No
> sewing for me until we find something to replace it that actually works.

I'm hoping like hell for a non steroidal that will control pain. Even
prednisone this last winter left be crippled. And the only thing that really
offers m any relief is to have my electric blanket on full all day.

Arava is getting close the the last thing I can try. No Enbrel or Remicade
here you see. Though I have been following two people on these and they too
have developed resitance to it's effectiveness.

<>

I wish I could say I think it would, but my body is simply not reacting to
anything other than steroids. I also was hit with RA fairly atypically, I
mean I can pinpoint the day and hour that triggered the near instananeous
reaction. Within a month I was immobile. Which is why I'm so thankful my GP
wasd so on the ball. I had an RF test immediately and it was only at 37 but
he still wrote a letter to the specialist. And I'm so pleased he did because
it was within 2 weeks that I went to have another test as it was getting so
bad and my RF was at 118.

So I'm living almost in fear of having my wisdom teeth taken out as I need
it done soon. It's going to trigger my next flare so I'm delaying it as much
as possible. I have to have a loading dose of antibiotics too thanks to all
the immuno suppressants.

Besides I have too many costumes I want to complete before then;)

<>

I retreat to bed as mentioned above because it's my whole body from jaw to
toes that gets inflammed. Not one or two joints. In fact when I had a
cortico-steriod shot I had to have a single one in my rump as injecting into
each joint would have been a bit too much;)

It's impossible to describe to another person what it's like to go through,
often even to people with the same disease but different symptoms. But if
you can imagine having a cold then imagine having that for 6 months in one
go and if you can imagine a sprained ankle, but in each joint for close to 6
months that comes close. It doesn't include the memory loss (pain or meds I
don't know) nor the severe depression when it starts and you know it's going
be for a long time. Very very hard to keep hope in those circumstances.

And of course watching the joints deform is hard, because there's no way to
fix that either.

Auto immune diseases are a particularly nasty thing to get whether it's RA,
MS or type one Diabetes or one of the other multitude but lessw ell known
kinds.

Hoping like heck for a cure for the future at least. Some way to get the
body to recognise that it's attacking itself. And until then.. I dunno....
maybe for governments to subsidise the newer treatments as very few people I
know actually do well on the fairly recent but still older DMARDs. I mean
it's not like we could do a damn thing to avoid this. Maybe delay it...


michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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On the offchance this author is on list please can you contact me ?

Mel

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 06:56:55 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030227100527.55557.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:52:27 -0500
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How cool you and Ben meet on the internet!!!  I remember Ben's site then.
Isn't it funny that in the web industry we are considered an old timers.

As for internet relationships, (mine non-romantic) I meet Susan, my asst. on
the internet.  We were on a Victorian email list and I recognized her last
name as being one of the surnames in my husband's family.  Turns out her
husband and my husband are 3rd or 4th cousins.  She lives one mile from my
mother and knows all my cousins in the area.  Susan is in Alabama and I am
in Virginia.  We have been best friends since and work great together.  She
has become a costume-olic.

Sharon/Shashy, my intern, I meet on the web too, on the same email list that
I meet Susan.  Sharon sent a post to h-costume yesterday in response to
Michaela and meds.  She is a nurse.  Sharon is really good at graphics and
has a wonderful eye for color.  She is also a great spotter for deals on
eBay costume books.

As for vintage email... I grew tired of Unix and moved to AOL by Nov. '95.
That got old quick too.  BUT AOL was how I found h-costume.  They had it
listed as the only costume related group in 1995.  So h-costume was my first
email list!

After I took my fashion drawing on computer class, I spend all summer
cleaning three images.  I was so determined to learn how to do it to
perfection. I also had to learn to draw on computer right handed, because
they didn't have left handed mouse at the time.  I still use my right hand
to draw and paint graphics on the computer.  Nothing gives me more joy than
to take an old image and make it look like it was really supposed to look
100-200 years ago.  It is truly a wonderful age we live in!

This will give you a giggle...
Sunday our area cable's internet router went up and down.  I was taking with
Sharon about some work on AOL IM and had nightmares of being on AOL in 1995.
I kept getting dropped off the internet.  I was loosing my patience big
time.  On Tuesday morning the router crashed altogether.  Needless, to say,
everyone in the house became very mean and not nice to live with!!!!!!  Six
computers and no internet access.... what a battle for two days.  We were
going through withdrawal bad!!!! Thank goodness, they got the router fixed
Wednesday.  The Civil War might have started back up in Richmond if they
hadn't fixed it.

The weathermen have been calling for snow... I was praying please, please
get the router fixed before it snows.  If my kids have to stay home from
school and not have the internet.... well I wouldn't be nice.

And it did snow all through yesterday afternoon and through the night.
Schools are cancelled.  The internet is working... I expect a peaceful day
to sleep!  BTW, this is the sixth Thursday and/or Friday in a row we have
had school canceled for snow.   This year, they have missed 8 days of school
for the snow and 2 for the sniper.  The kids are a little tired of sledding.
So they can veg out in front of the computers today.

Good night!!!!!  I'm heading to bed!!!!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 08:58:00 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:58:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Mara Riley 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Textile Technology-smell in your clothes!
To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
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Oh, no... for those of us who get headaches from our coworkers'
perfumes, that sounds like a dreadful idea!

On the other hand, maybe reenactors could save time by having the
smell of smoke woven into their outfits... 

-- Mara


--- Saragrace Knauf  wrote:
> Just heard on the news that scientists have figured out how to
> 'weave'
> smell into your clothes!  The 'smell' particles are activated by
> movement and heat and are waterproof.  So you can machine wash the
> fabric!
> 
> What will they think of next?
> 
> Sg

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 09:19:05 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:18:26 -0500
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Brenda Bell 
Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit
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Lloyd Mitchell writes:

>Bjarne, I sometimes wonder who is minding the shop when valuable costumes
>are lent to museums that are supposed to be in the know about how to exhibit
>such valuables with good preservation methods.  They are always first with
>pamphlets and manuals telling us ordinary folk how to treat our textiles,
>but are often short on keeping things on loan in a manner that  would insure
>preservation.

Have you considered the possibility that while they *know* (at least in 
theory) how to care for the garments, they may not have the funding to do 
so properly? Many museums -- even the government-funded ones -- are very 
tight on money for hiring conservators, doing conservation, fixing basic 
problems with the physical plant, etc. This is particularly true of the 
small, private, local museums which often depend on casual visitors being 
willing to drop a dollar or two in the often-hidden donation box each time 
they visit.

Another thing that might be an issue in the case of sun-fading is the 
building itself: is it a historical building in which they can't really 
block the sunlight from coming in and harming the garments? Perhaps also 
they need to keep exhibits in one spot for the length of an exhibition, so 
cannot move or rotate the garments? Perhaps the exhibit is so popular (or 
they're so understaffed/underfunded) that they cannot close off the gallery 
and shroud the displays during the periods of peak damaging sunlight?

>I have had a similar experience with some of my old things
>but they were not of the quality or value of yours. And when the venue is
>prestigious, one should not have to quiz them about their display
>regulations.

It may not be a matter of the regulations; it may be a matter of the 
curators, the conservators, museum politics, or governmental politics. Many 
times costume collections in major museums seem to get short shrift of 
funds and personnel because they're not what bring in the visitors with the 
fat wallets willing to write checks for substantial donations. They don't 
bring in the schoolchildren who get class tours of the dinosaur exhibits 
and the plate armor and expensive multimedia presentations...

And while Lloyd mentions "prestigious" venues, I'll note that I've seen 
more historical garments in little, out-of-the-way private museums run by 
local historical societies than I've seen in major museums (like the 
Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC) which are *known* for their costume 
collections. And the docents there usually know a *lot* more about the 
items in their collection, as well. (With some exceptions: when we toured 
one of the major historical mansions in Kansas City back in 1990, in one of 
the bedrooms they had displayed a crocheted dresser scarf *upside down*, 
hiding the three-dimensional Irish roses. It was a pattern I'd been 
crocheting a lot of, so I recognized its "upside-down-ness" right away and 
brought it to the attention of the docent.)


Brenda
webwarren@earthlink.net


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 09:22:08 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:21:38 -0500
To: h-costume@indra.com
From: Brenda Bell 
Subject: Sorry for the misattribution (WAS: Re:  Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's
  suit)
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I started my reply:

>Lloyd Mitchell writes:

Then saw:

>Bjarne, sorry, I for got to sign my post...Kathleen

Welp, sorry, Kathleen, for calling you "Lloyd" (your DH, I presume?)


Brenda
webwarren@earthlink.net


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 09:47:16 2003
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From: "Linda Walton" 
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:47:38 -0000
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Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Fashion Weekend (U.K.)
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There is going to be a Victorian Fashion Weekend at Hughenden Manor, High
Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K. on March 15th-16th 2003.  As far as I know,
this will be a 'first' for this area, as we are too far from London for most
things, so this is a most exciting development.

Hughenden Manor is a beautiful old house and park, owned now by the National
Trust and kept in the style of its previous owner, Benjamin Disraeli,
(Victorian U.K. Prime Minister and novelist).

Here are the details:-

An evening talk and demonstration by Jane Walton of Hands on History, on
Saturday 15th March, will provide a unique opportunity for visitors to
examine and even try on authentic pieces of Victorian clothing and
underwear, whilst learning more about how and why they were worn.  Tickets
for this session, from 6.30pm to 8.30pm, are £5.

In addition, a 2-day workshop run by Ian Chipperfield of The Staymaker, will
explore the role of Victorian corsets in more detail, whilst teaching
participants how to measure themselves and how to construct a corset to
complete at home.  The 2-day workshop (15th and 16th March, 10am to 4pm)
costs £40 and participants must supply their own sewing machines.

Admission to both these events is by ticket only and the number of tickets
is strictly limited.  Tickets are available from the Hughenden Estate
Office, telephone (01494) 755573, or email Hughenden@nationaltrust.org.uk or
write to Victorian Fashion Weekend, Hughenden Estate Office, Stable Yard,
Hughenden Manor, High Wycombe, HP14 4LA.

As I have lived in High Wycombe for a good many years, I may know the
answers to more general questions, so email me direct , if you wish,

yours sincerely,

Linda Walton,
linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com

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How interesting, Penny....I'm left-handed, too, and when I first
encountered the computer, and a mouse (about 15-16 years ago ), I
just picked the mouse and the mouse pad up, and moved them over to the
left side where I could reach it.  I never messed with the mouse keys or
anything.
I have a couple of right-handed friends who learned to use the mouse
left-handed, because their first computer exposure was with a setup
similar to mine .
I've only had internet access for 3 years, and I don't know if it's a
blessing or a curse! So many wonderful things to buy, and see, and
learn! I'll never get to do everything I want to! Waaaaaah!
--sue, in nearly-snowless Missoula

Penny Ladnier wrote:
> 
 
> After I took my fashion drawing on computer class, I spend all summer
> cleaning three images.  I was so determined to learn how to do it to
> perfection. I also had to learn to draw on computer right handed, because
> they didn't have left handed mouse at the time.  I still use my right hand
> to draw and paint graphics on the computer.  Nothing gives me more joy than
> to take an old image and make it look like it was really supposed to look
> 100-200 years ago.  It is truly a wonderful age we live in!
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
> Okay, Nicole and Paul, what year did you start on the internet?
>
> Mine was 1995... we used Unix at the university for email.  The university
> also made every class I took go to an orientation on how to use the www.
In
> 1996, I took the first classes offered at our college in web development
and
> another, in fashion drawing on computers. Boy, was I hooked then.  Another
> class... I still use what I learned... layout for fashion magazines and
the
> web.

I had access to the internet through other people's computers from about '95
but it wasn't until late '97 that I got my own and had my own email etc.
Spare time was non-existent from then on :-)

Though my first *home* computer was an Amiga 500...

Press play on tape, go have cuppa, come back and see if the damn thing has
finished loading!

Paul
--
It's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission. - W. Slovotsky
http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder
Costumier & Reprobate


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 10:55:35 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:55:37 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thank you!!!
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Great - thanks for the assistance in figuring it out.  Now I need to
go reset all of my other mailing lists ...

					...eliz

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 11:20:58 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dover print was : Lansknecht hat
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:20:51 -0700
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Thanks Gwyn.  I don't have the book myself-I think there was a little
misunderstanding there.
 
Sg
 
-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Gwyn Carnegie
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 6:00 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dover print was : Lansknecht hat
 

I'll take a look for the book tonight myself. I think I know which one
she is referring to. 

There are about 3 types of hats that seem to be common as dirt in the
Germanic states during that period. I'll see if I can't locate a good
image of each one. If the image isn't clear enough using my digital
camera, I'll resort to a line drawing or something.

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis 

At 05:42 PM 2/26/2003 -0700, you wrote:


When you have a chance, could you tell us what the name of that woodcut
is?  My book doesn't have it, but it might be on line somewhere.

Thanks
Sg
________________________________

It's the picture, in the Dover book of the complete woodcuts of Durer, 
which shows the guy pushing the parade cart.  You see the hat slung over

his shoulder, and you get a good view, in the Dover close-up, of the top
of 
it.  There's another picture, a full-page portrait in the same book, 
showing a close-up of this kind of hat.
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 11:53:19 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:54:13 +0100
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Subject: [h-cost] museum exhibitions
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Hello,
Castle Selsoe was starting as a museum in 1972. The last inhabitater died in
1829 and the castle was left and fell apart. It was 2 journalist's who
spended all their fortune in making it to a museum. It consists of a
headbuilding and a gate house. The gatehouse is occupied by some of the
landowners workers so there is only the head building with interiors.
And because it was left in 1829 it never got heating systems neither running
water.
But the interiors was preserved in a remarkable way, and the museum is now
nominated as a heritage treassure because of some very fine baroque halls
from 1730.
The museum is very poor and only gets few incomes of the public. I think the
state is providing.
So they have very poor storage room.
Costumes should not be stored in damp, cold winter season, but they have no
alternatives.
And they baught the costumes from me, so i could not care about how they
treat them, it is their propperty now.
The only thing i ment was, that i dont feel like donating or sell other
things for them, when they dont care how to handle the costumes.
And those costumes i made then, was not half the way as beautifull nor
correct as my costumes are now! Neither was the fabric i made them of better
than dupioni silk because they had to be cheap in price.
Bjarne

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 11:59:08 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
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	<5.0.0.25.2.20030226233503.02dac790@mail.attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century petticoat length.
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:00:14 +0100
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Hi Danielle.
I have had accurate the same problems as you have now.
I also think the underskirts in Kyoto is much two high and reveals much two
much of the feet.
I dont know if this is correct.
All i know is that i have seen some costumes here in Denmark where the
underskirt only was about 1 inch higher than the overdress skirt.
Therefore i have always made my skirts 1 inch shorter than the overskirt.
Perhaps it also has something to do with, that many of the dresses shown in
Kyoto is late 18th century, and i think skirts was a little shorter in say
1780ies..........
A normally sack from 1760-70 i would only make 1 inch shorter.
It should be off the floor. Also because it is much easyer to moove and
danse if the skirt dont trail on the ground, only the sack should trail from
the sides and back.
My two cents..........

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:50 AM
Subject: [h-cost] 18th century petticoat length.


> Greetings,
>
> Now that I have a bit of time for this list again, I have a question.
What
> is the correct length for a well-dressed woman/lady's petticoat from the
> 1860's& early 1770s? I've been looking at all the pictures I can find from
> around this time period but very few seem to correspond with the extant
> clothing.  I was just looking at all the saque-back gowns in Revolution in
> Fashion and realized that in almost all of them, the petticoat came to
> about ankle height, while the matching skirts of the gowns were ground
> length or longer.  Are they supposed to be like this or is this a quirk
> from that exhibition?  Ashelford's "Art of Dress" doesn't show the bottom
> portion of a gown of the same style so I can't tell if other exhibits
> showed them in the same fashion.  : )  The red brocade gown from 1770 from
> the Bath Costume Museum seems to show the opposite - the petticoat is
> longer than the gown.
>
> I wasn't able to find images relating to the style I like in Ribeiro's
> "Dress in Eighteenth-Century Europe" or in fashion plates either so I can
> only conclude, I'm not looking for high fashion.
>
> So, now I'm left quite confused.  Can anyone point me to some definitive
> sources?
>
> Cheers,
> Danielle
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 12:01:33 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:59:42 -0700
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Subject: [h-cost] 
	Are these the kind of hats we are discussing? (Was landsknecht Hat)
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Just trying to pinpoint what we are discussing. This is not what I had
in mind, but thought a picture would help clarify.
 
http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/durer/p-durer62.htm
 
http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer48.html
 
 
 
Saragrace T. Knauf
25313 West Illini Street 
Buckeye, AZ 85326-6431
(623)-386-0685
 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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sure it could.  Laws - and policing - against spam would be a great 
stab at perfection.

.heather.


On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 12:41 AM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin 
wrote:

>> Gosh I SO miss the good old sweet and innocent days of the beginnings 
>> of
> the
>> Internet. Oh well.
>>
>> Nicole
>
> But at that time you didn't have nearly as much information and 
> services as
> you have now. A few years ago you couldn't shop online, and doing 
> research
> was hard! I guess it can never be perfect...
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:05:58 -0600
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That's it, the list is letting attachments go through!!!!!

Penny Ladnier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It is also bundling a lot more messages into one digest, and my email
only accepts so many so I'm loosing some of the Landsknecht Hat thread! 


FYI: I didn't see an image on your attachment Penny, just a lot of
code.

Catherine
franticly looking for the archives........

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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> Gosh I SO miss the good old sweet and innocent days of the beginnings of
the
> Internet. Oh well.
>
> Nicole

But at that time you didn't have nearly as much information and services as
you have now. A few years ago you couldn't shop online, and doing research
was hard! I guess it can never be perfect...
_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 13:56:30 2003
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To: nicole@kipar.org, h-costume@indra.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:36:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
Message-ID: <20030227.123648.-312309.0.catpurson@juno.com>
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        I am Nicole or Paul but have to butt in here.  I had a TRS-80
model 4 computer back in the dark ages (it was my second computer) and I
had to try the net.  It was somewhere in the mid 80's - don't remember
the exact year.  I used Compuserve and had to pay toll calls because they
didn't have a local phone number.  Everything was text - no pics and the
directions to use it were volumes.  But it was fun even then.  I didn't
get e-mail either but there were bulletin boards. 

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 14:37:23 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:36:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
To: Historical Costume 
In-Reply-To: <8894C60D-4A38-11D7-92F8-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
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 --- Heather Meadows  wrote: > sure it could.  Laws - and
policing - against spam would be a great 
> stab at perfection.

... and an incredibly dangerous path to go in my opinion towards a policed and
non free speech internet.
Either way, I believe too that we won't have perfection. I am very glad that we
have the Internet, despite me spending far too much time on it, but then again
I used to stare at the TV when I lived alone and had to kick myself to go and
sew, nowadays I stare at the computer, where's the difference, well at least
the computer can give useful information.

I would have never known that there are SO many people out there who love
historical costumes!

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:54:53 -0500
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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<<<... and an incredibly dangerous path to go in my opinion towards a
policed and
non free speech internet.>>>

        Much as spam annoys me, I have to agree with you here.  It really
isn't any worse than the junk mail I get in my snail mail box.  I just
toss that in the waste container and I delete the spam.  Neither are as
bad as the telemarketers who call at the most inconvenient times!.

        As for costume content - I have just finished my Mary Queen of
Scots garb - all done by hand, not a machine stitch on it.  Of course,
she was a quarter of a century younger than me when she died, but I love
the outfit.  And, no I can't show you because I don't have a scanner or a
digital camera or a website.  Just think of a 68 year old, 160 pound, 5
ft 9 in tall, lady in a black velveteen gown with white partlet and open
neck ruff and white Mary Stuart cap with lace edged floor length veil,
and be glad you can't see it.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 14:55:15 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: , "Historical Costume" 
References: 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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Now Sue... how are you snowless in Montana???  We have been getting snow
weekly for a while.  This is an odd winter for us.

When I was taking the drawing class, we were on Mac that the mouse attached
to the keyboard on the right.  The cord wasn't long enough to move to the
left side.  When I worked at home, I was so adapt to drawing on the right, I
just stayed that way.  Now the funny thing is, I have tried to draw on the
computer left handed, I don't have the eye-hand coordination.... but in
reality I paint in other mediums with my left hand.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
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	<20030227145537.GH6348@net.indra.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thank you!!!
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:58:20 -0500
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Your welcome Eliza!  I appreciate all your work on the other lists too!!!!
You do a great service for all of us.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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<<<.  Now the funny thing is, I have tried to draw on the
computer left handed, I don't have the eye-hand coordination.... but in
reality I paint in other mediums with my left hand.>>>

        I don't know how anyone can draw on the computer with either
hand.  I just make an awful mess when I try.  However, if anyone can it
would be the most creative Penny. 

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 15:05:42 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Changes on the list service
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:05:25 -0500
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Catherine,

I am sorry it came as code.  I am on digest on some tech lists.  I hate when
that happens.  It was just a little image.  I tried to send something small.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Kinsey" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Changes on the list service


> That's it, the list is letting attachments go through!!!!!
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> It is also bundling a lot more messages into one digest, and my email
> only accepts so many so I'm loosing some of the Landsknecht Hat thread!
>
>
> FYI: I didn't see an image on your attachment Penny, just a lot of
> code.
>
> Catherine
> franticly looking for the archives........
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 15:28:29 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:16:59 -0800
To: Historical Costume , nicole@kipar.org,
        h-costume@indra.com
From: Margo Anderson 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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 Just think of a 68 year old, 160 pound, 5
>ft 9 in tall, lady in a black velveteen gown with white partlet and open
>neck ruff and white Mary Stuart cap with lace edged floor length veil,
>and be glad you can't see it.
>
Why on earth would I be glad I can't see it?  It sounds scrumptious, and if
I don't get to see pictures, I'm going to be very cranky!

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
http://www.margospatterns.com
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 15:28:59 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:18:29 -0800
To: Historical Costume , ,
        "Historical Costume" 
From: Margo Anderson 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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>
>When I was taking the drawing class, we were on Mac that the mouse attached
>to the keyboard on the right.  The cord wasn't long enough to move to the
>left side.  When I worked at home, I was so adapt to drawing on the right, I
>just stayed that way.  Now the funny thing is, I have tried to draw on the
>computer left handed, I don't have the eye-hand coordination.... but in
>reality I paint in other mediums with my left hand.
>
I do the same thing!  all the illustrations for my patterns are done right
handed.  It's the ONLY thing I can do right handed.

Margo
"One Tough Costumer"


The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
http://www.margospatterns.com
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 15:34:55 2003
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Dear Penny:
Thanks for all your suggestions and insights.  I will definitely be keeping 
you posted on developments as the magazine proceeds.  I'm waiting for a 
response from our publisher, who is out of the office yesterday and today, 
about website URL etc.  In the meantime, here's all the editorial contact 
info:

Vintage Fashion Magazine
429 West 256th Street
Riverdale, NY  10471
ed-in-chief:  Julia Fein Azoulay
editorial telephone:  718.601.0396
email:  fashionreporting@aol.com

I'll advise the entire h-cost list when we have definitive advertising 
contact info.  For all you costume people out there in businesses, academics, 
etc:  Please send us press releases about any upcoming events, lectures, 
exhibits, conferences that will take place AFTER May 03; also, please feel 
free to send us releases about business news, store openings, promotions, 
accomplishments, awards - whatever developments would be appropriate to 
announce in an international magazine.
Thank you for your suggestions, advice and referrals; looking forward to your 
ongoing input,
Best,
Julia
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<<>

Dear Margo, the gown is scrumptious and it would be great on someone
else.  I have you to thank for it as I used your patterns for the corset,
farthingale, chemise, partlet, gown and Mary Stuart cap.  I couldn't have
done it without you.  Well, maybe I could have, but it would have been a
whole lot more work.  You have done the hard part with your wonderful
patterns.

Someday I might be able to get another digital camera or scanner, and if
I do, I will send you a picture.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:38:29 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 04:37:59AM -0500, Penny Ladnier wrote:
> Okay, Nicole and Paul, what year did you start on the internet?

I have to answer, even though I'm not Nicole or Paul: I started on the
net in 1984.  I used Bitnet to chat (and even went to a couple of
BitCon gatherings), and read NetNews (now called Usenet) beginning in
1986, before the "Great Re-Org" when all the different categories were
created.  (It used to be net.movies, net.singles, etc) I created my
first mailing list (for musicals, but it's now the newsgroup
rec.arts.theatre.musicals) in 1988.  I started working at the first
ISP in North America (world.std.com) when it was founded in 1989.

I took over running this mailing list in the mid-1990s, but I forget
just when.  Probably approaching 10 years ago, tho.

						...eliz
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030227.123648.-312309.0.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:40:21 -0500
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Oh Lalah... you are a very old timer on the internet!!!!!  (Handing you a
cane)  What was the first costume site you remember going too?

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 15:46:52 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "h-costume" 
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:46:15 -0500
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Subject: [h-cost] 
	Fw: Whitaker Spring Vintage Clothing, Linen & Textile Auction
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MessagePassing this one along...

From: Karen Augusta.
To: oldlace@sover.net
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:21 PM
Subject: Whitaker Spring Vintage Clothing, Linen & Textile Auction


I have been working over the past two months photographing and assembling
lots for an incredible vintage and textile auction that will be held on
March 27th in New Hope, Pennsylvania. I am still opening boxes and
cataloguing the sale but wanted to give as much advance notice as possible
in case you are able to rearrange your schedule to attend. I would guess
that there are three to five thousand items that will end up as 500-600
auction lots. Most auction pieces are deaccessions from six Institutional
collections with select additions from a few private consignors. The
majority of these pieces have been stored away for decades or longer.

The auction includes a bit of everything - incredible estate linens & lace -
the most beautiful Irish crochet gown - printed fabrics (18th - 20th c.) -
beaded 20's dresses - Chinese embroidered clothing - costume jewelry - men's
clothes - shoes - hats - fans.  While some of the top catalogued lots will
certainly find their way back to other museum collections, most of the
auction items are grouped in generous lots to keep the auction to one day.
There are boxes filled with trims, exceptional early fabrics, boxes and
boxes of hats, boxes of lace, large lots of antique clothing for restoration
or recycling. This is a chance for collectors, reenactors, costumers,
designers, restorers, antique doll collectors and dealers to benefit from
all of these new-to-market treasures.

A preliminary listing of auction highlights has been posted on the
auctioneer's website,  www.whitakerauction.com . There are currently four
photo galleries offering a sampling of what you can expect at this sale and
more photos will be added over the next two weeks. I am hoping to complete
the catalogue by March 10th and have it available on-line, as well as a form
for absentee bidding.

This is one vintage and textile auction that you will not want to miss!

Karen Augusta
www.antique-fashion.com
802-463-4958

PS Please pass this announcement on to others you know who might be
interested. Thanks!
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 15:53:56 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:53:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Jacobson Dawn 
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: in the old days...
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Penny wrote:

<>

If I can jump in... 8-)

First time really active on the I'net: 1994 when we
got our first Pentium 1. Prior to that, we had a 286
that could barely manage e-mail. Until recently, you
could "google" my name and come up with some of the
posts I made to H-costume in 1994.

Ah, email: I think I had my first e-mail account on
Prodigy in the late 1980s (about the time we got the
286). Prior to that, I resorted to posting messages on
BBSs with my little Kaypro "Portable" (if 40 pounds is
portable!). I got that in 1983, to replace the Apple
II.

Costume content: I can't remember what web site I
visited first. However, I was one of the "staff" for a
couple of Compuserve's historical costuming forums
(and unless my memory is playing tricks, Margo was a
regular poster). We've come a very long way in less
than 10 years.

Dawn
(once known as "74047.1324@compuserve.com")


=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 15:57:15 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:56:19 -0800
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
From: Agnes Gawne 
To: , H-costume 
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Dear Phoebe, 

I wish I could help you better... I tried looking in all my sources for
"oversized shoe buckles" but I couldn't find any used on latchets smaller
than the buckle.  

However, there is a shoe buckle collector that I knew of from a regency
writers list that has a nice website about shoe buckles of the 18th C - it's
at 
http://www.candicehern.com/collections/02/buckles.htm

There are a lot of nice buckles on her site but more importantly there is a
place on the Contact page where you might consider writing to her to see if
she has come across large buckles used in later period shoes. She seems very
approachable. 

I believe there is also a yahoo group called something like "18th C women"
that may have some ideas.

Good luck!
Agnes

> From: prairielark 
> Reply-To: prairielark@herspace.com, Historical Costume 
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:50:47 -0800 (PST)
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
> 
> For our wedding in March, my fiance just purchased a wonderful pair of very
> large 18c shoe buckles from a collector.  When they came in the mail, these
> were quite a bit larger than he had realized.  We think therefore that they
> must be rather early, perhaps 1730 or so.  The buckles are decorative, of
> brass with a nickel wash.  In fact, they are so much bigger than the lachets
> that the bars show on either side of the buckles when they are attached.
> Would it be proper to fashion some sort of ruching or cockade to cover these
> bars?  Haven't ever noticed the wearing of buckles and ruched shoe decorations
> at the same time, but then again, we usually do the common person thing and
> have less knowledge of fancy dress than we should.  Any good
> paintings/portraits/museum sites we can look at for ideas?  These buckles are
> really quite spiffy and my love really wants to find some way these would
> work.  His shoes are Fugawee Jeffersons in case this matters, which are second
> half-18c.  We figure maybe
> we can say he's wearing grandaddy's shoe buckles for the wedding.  Ideas,
> help?
> 
> Many thanks,
> Phoebe
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Herspace.com
> [[feed your heart * fuel your art]]
> http://www.herspace.com
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 16:00:57 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: in the old days...
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:00:27 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To:  from "Jacobson Dawn" at Feb 27, 2003 11:53:39 AM
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I started in 1990.  I still remember using Mosaic when they posted to links
to EVERY web site on their home page.

.heather.


> 
> Penny wrote:
> 
> < the internet?
> 
> Mine was 1995... we used Unix at the university for
> email.  The 
> university
> also made every class I took go to an orientation on
> how to use the 
> www. In
> 1996, I took the first classes offered at our college
> in web 
> development and
> another, in fashion drawing on computers. Boy, was I
> hooked then.  
> Another
> class... I still use what I learned... layout for
> fashion magazines and 
> the
> web.
> 
> LOL... Nicole I worked my response into the list's
> topic.  What was the
> first costume website you went to on the web?  Mine
> was the Costume 
> Page.>>
> 
> If I can jump in... 8-)
> 
> First time really active on the I'net: 1994 when we
> got our first Pentium 1. Prior to that, we had a 286
> that could barely manage e-mail. Until recently, you
> could "google" my name and come up with some of the
> posts I made to H-costume in 1994.
> 
> Ah, email: I think I had my first e-mail account on
> Prodigy in the late 1980s (about the time we got the
> 286). Prior to that, I resorted to posting messages on
> BBSs with my little Kaypro "Portable" (if 40 pounds is
> portable!). I got that in 1983, to replace the Apple
> II.
> 
> Costume content: I can't remember what web site I
> visited first. However, I was one of the "staff" for a
> couple of Compuserve's historical costuming forums
> (and unless my memory is playing tricks, Margo was a
> regular poster). We've come a very long way in less
> than 10 years.
> 
> Dawn
> (once known as "74047.1324@compuserve.com")
> 
> 
> =====
> Dawn Jacobson
> Vallejo, CA, USA
> 
> Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
> --Dalai Lama
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 16:12:50 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:12:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
To: H-Costume 
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Subject: [h-cost] New list settings: please check/help
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Eliz, something weird seems to be happening, I now get replies to a post of
mine (and all from those onwards) to my 'reply to' address as well, it seems to
automatically set it to reply to the list _and_ the sender/ Please, please,
could you check this? It was good the way it was before, or am I the only one
receiving mails twice because they go to my reply-to address as well and not
just to the list?

Thanks ever so much

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:10:02 -0000
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
From: 
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     Actually I think shoe buckles got bigger as the century went on - they may 
be 1790s instead of earlier.  Check different eras of fashion illustration to 
see.

     Shoe styles changed with the buckles, so the straps would be wider to 
accomodate a larger buckle.  I suggest taking a wider piece of leather and 
putting it under/through the buckle to hide the bar, as if the shoe straps were 
wider.

     -Carol


> For our wedding in March, my fiance just purchased a wonderful pair of very
> large 18c shoe buckles from a collector.  When they came in the mail, these
> were quite a bit larger than he had realized.  We think therefore that they
> must be rather early, perhaps 1730 or so.  The buckles are decorative, of
> brass with a nickel wash.  In fact, they are so much bigger than the lachets
> that the bars show on either side of the buckles when they are attached.

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From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
To: 
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	<005401c2de6c$1a5fdec0$18a231d2@valadan>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:06:25 -0500
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> I had access to the internet through other people's computers from about
'95
> but it wasn't until late '97 that I got my own and had my own email etc.
> Spare time was non-existent from then on :-)
>
> Though my first *home* computer was an Amiga 500...
>
> Press play on tape, go have cuppa, come back and see if the damn thing has
> finished loading!
>
> Paul


My first home computer was a Commodore 64. And my very first on-line access
was Quantum Link, which evolved into AOL. I had a 300 baud modem.

Dianne

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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030227.135454.-143941.0.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:19:50 -0500
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Lalah,

If you send me some photos, I will scan them for you.  You can also scan at
Kinko's or most drug stores that have a photo dept.  The ones at the drug
stores are easy to use.

As for telemarketers... I have found the best solution to the problem.  I
have Verizon as my local phone company.  They have a service for $10 a month
to block telemarketers.  You also get other things with the service, like
caller ID.  I was so desperate to get rid of them, that I tried it.  The
service really works!!!!!  We receive about 1 or 2 calls per week opposed to
dozens.  You can try the service for free for one or two months.  To me it
is worth every penny of the $10.

Spam vs snail junk mail... at least in snail mail I am not receiving
offensive porn.  I hate opening up a clever spam mail that tricks you into
opening it and it has a penis image blaring on the screen.  I worry that one
day my kids will walk into the room and I have accidentally opened one of
these.

Lastly... Lalah, I have learned that 5' 9" and 160 lbs. is good weight from
my doctors.  I have put on weight (I call it my puberty) from the migraine
meds I talk.  Last week at the doctors, I weighed 165 lbs. and measured 5' 9
1/2".  The doctor kept commented on how thin I am.  Sometimes, we look in
the mirror and see flaws that no one else notices.  We can be our worst
critiques.  With that said, now I really want to see your photos and I will
give you my honest opinion.  I am a pro dresser.  I don't lie to people...
we just hide the flaws really well.  The only people who know the flaws are
my clients and me!

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 16:37:20 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:36:52 -0800
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New list settings: please check/help
From: Agnes Gawne 
To: 
Message-ID: 
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Actually - I like the thought of posts coming directly back to the sender
and also to the group - is it perhaps something we could "opt-in" to... in
other words, if I like the direct response I can have it and if Nicole
doesn't like that she can choose not to get it?

Agnes

> From: N Kipar 
> Reply-To: nicole@kipar.org, Historical Costume 
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:12:23 +0000 (GMT)
> To: H-Costume 
> Subject: [h-cost] New list settings: please check/help
> 
> Eliz, something weird seems to be happening, I now get replies to a post of
> mine (and all from those onwards) to my 'reply to' address as well, it seems
> to
> automatically set it to reply to the list _and_ the sender/ Please, please,
> could you check this? It was good the way it was before, or am I the only one
> receiving mails twice because they go to my reply-to address as well and not
> just to the list?
> 
> Thanks ever so much
> 
> Nicole
> 
> =====
> "Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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> 

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 16:48:30 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030227.140101.-143941.2.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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Oh Lalah... you are so sweet to me!!!!!!  (sharing my chocolates and paints)

It is not hard to draw on a computer... you can do so many tricks on
computer that you can't do on paper or canvas.  When you screw up on the
computer, just click un-do.   The hand-eye co-ordination is the key.  If you
don't have the coordination in one hand, try the other and see what happens!

We use Paint Shop Pro (PSP) software and it is inexpensive and user
friendly.  There are dozens of online classes and tutorials on how to use
PSP software.  You can also download a demo of the software for free.  Susan
is always taking these classes and learning some new trick, then passing it
on to us.

Sharon, our intern, is great with color and design. We are teaching her so
many tricks of the graphics trade.  She just finished cleaning her first
vintage fashion magazine graphics this week.  She did a wonderful job and
picked up the techniques so quickly.  I am so proud of her!!!  Sharon is
proud of the work she did too.  It is so rewarding to restore something back
to its original beauty.  I always tell people to print out a before picture
and after when working.  The difference is amazing!!!  Now Sharon is working
on her second article!

Remember the first painting that artists create, are generally not their
best.  It takes years of practice and a good mentor or teacher.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 16:56:45 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
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Anyone can jump in on the thread... I just like addressing people by names
who were up at the time.

Wow Eliza!!!  You are a real old-timer too!!!!  (pulling up a rocking chair
for you)  What an impressive history you have on the net!

Since you have been web so long... do you remember what the first website
concerning costume?

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 17:06:47 2003
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From: "Nancy Kiel" 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Landsknecht hat
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:01:06 -0500
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She may want to look at A History of Costume by Carl Kohler, p. 250ff.  He 
has written instructions as to how such a hat can be made (no patterns, 
though!).



Nancy Kiel
nancy_kiel@hotmail.com
Never tease a weasel!
This is very good advice.
For the weasel will not like it
And teasing isn't nice.





>From: Liz / Cozit 
>Reply-To: Historical Costume 
>To: h-costume@indra.com
>Subject: [h-cost] Re: Landsknecht hat
>Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:51:44 -0500
>
>I've a friend who's been looking for directions for a Landsknecht hat... 
>with little success.  I'm thinking this is the one group that I forgot to 
>ask... and the others where I *know* there are a few who have made them 
>I've gotten the "I winged it" answer with no hints.
>
>If anyone out there *has* made one and is willing to share directions, it'd 
>be great if you'd be willing to post them here (I've seen at least 2-3 
>others requesting it).  Or if you've ever seen a place selling a pattern 
>for them, that'd be extremely helpful as well (she sews, but she's no where 
>near expert).
>
>Thank you,
>-Elisabeth
>
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_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030227.135454.-143941.0.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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Dear Lalah.
That is a shame you dont have any of these things.
Could you not take ordinary picture pictures of it.
If you sended me some, i surely would not mind scanning them and take them
up on my homepage.
I think it is such a shame that we cant se all the glorious work people
make, just because they dont have a webpage, i have plenty of space at my
place!
And i love to se what others do :-)

Bjarne

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: ; 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try


> <<<... and an incredibly dangerous path to go in my opinion towards a
> policed and
> non free speech internet.>>>
>
>         Much as spam annoys me, I have to agree with you here.  It really
> isn't any worse than the junk mail I get in my snail mail box.  I just
> toss that in the waste container and I delete the spam.  Neither are as
> bad as the telemarketers who call at the most inconvenient times!.
>
>         As for costume content - I have just finished my Mary Queen of
> Scots garb - all done by hand, not a machine stitch on it.  Of course,
> she was a quarter of a century younger than me when she died, but I love
> the outfit.  And, no I can't show you because I don't have a scanner or a
> digital camera or a website.  Just think of a 68 year old, 160 pound, 5
> ft 9 in tall, lady in a black velveteen gown with white partlet and open
> neck ruff and white Mary Stuart cap with lace edged floor length veil,
> and be glad you can't see it.
>
> Lalah
> Never give up, Never surrender
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 17:12:43 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <3.0.6.32.20030227111659.00865140@pop.directcon.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:14:12 +0100
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Me two Margo,
So let us se pictures of your work!


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Margo Anderson" 
To: "Historical Costume" ; ;

Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try


> Just think of a 68 year old, 160 pound, 5
> >ft 9 in tall, lady in a black velveteen gown with white partlet and open
> >neck ruff and white Mary Stuart cap with lace edged floor length veil,
> >and be glad you can't see it.
> >
> Why on earth would I be glad I can't see it?  It sounds scrumptious, and
if
> I don't get to see pictures, I'm going to be very cranky!
>
> Margo
> "One Tough Costumer"
>
>
> The Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe pattern is now shipping!  See it at
> http://www.margospatterns.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 17:20:05 2003
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From: Heather Meadows 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
To: h-costume@indra.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:19:56 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To:  from "Bjarne og Leif Drews" at Feb 27, 2003 10:11:58 PM
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I have to disagree with you here.. spam costs me hundreds of
dollars a year in bandwidth charges, I'm about to spend $2000 (shared 
with a partner) on a new machine specificially to filter out spam.
I spend hundreds of hours a year both deleting spam and trying to stay
on top of research to prevent it.  

I receive several thousand spams a week -- just to my *active* accounts.

It's *not* like junk mail.  it's like vandalism.  It's like
if the mail came through the slot so fast I wasn't able to
enter my house any more.

How many people do you know who have to say "Oh, I get 200 pieces
of junk mail a day in the slot, I THINK I'LL MOVE APARTMENTS?" 
and, there ARE means in place to legally take your name off direct marketers
lists.

Also, I'm not even receiving your emails.  Some filter upstream (I checked,
and it's not one of mine) must be blocking them.  I only saw your reply
via Penny.  So, in essense, spam is already censoring *you*, just by existing.

.heather.



> >
> >         Much as spam annoys me, I have to agree with you here.  It really
> > isn't any worse than the junk mail I get in my snail mail box.  I just
> > toss that in the waste container and I delete the spam.  Neither are as
> > bad as the telemarketers who call at the most inconvenient times!.
> >
> >         As for costume content - I have just finished my Mary Queen of
> > Scots garb - all done by hand, not a machine stitch on it.  Of course,
> > she was a quarter of a century younger than me when she died, but I love
> > the outfit.  And, no I can't show you because I don't have a scanner or a
> > digital camera or a website.  Just think of a 68 year old, 160 pound, 5
> > ft 9 in tall, lady in a black velveteen gown with white partlet and open
> > neck ruff and white Mary Stuart cap with lace edged floor length veil,
> > and be glad you can't see it.
> >
> > Lalah
> > Never give up, Never surrender
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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<<>>

        Actually, I am fairly new to the costume lists.  I was mostly
doing Sci/Fi stuff and didn't need any research except for the TV show or
movie that I was copying from.  Then about three years ago I wanted to do
a medieval outfit for Dragon Con (which I had to miss anyhow) and found
the SCA garb list and then this one.  I dropped the SCA list for various
reasons, but love this one as I am making more costumes for friends in
other periods (Colonial, Civil War, and so forth).  

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 17:44:18 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:43:46 -0800
To: Historical Costume 
From: Chris Laning 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's suit
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At 8:36 PM -0500 2/26/03, Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
>Bjarne, I sometimes wonder who is minding the shop when valuable costumes
>are lent to museums that are supposed to be in the know about how to exhibit
>such valuables with good preservation methods.  They are always first with
>pamphlets and manuals telling us ordinary folk how to treat our textiles,
>but are often short on keeping things on loan in a manner that  would insure
>preservation.  I have had a similar experience with some of my old things
>but they were not of the quality or value of yours. And when the venue is
>prestigious, one should not have to quiz them about their display
>regulations.
>
>Bjarne wrote:
>>Castle Selsoe did not take enough care of my costumes i think. They were
>>sitting on the dress stands all winter long, and there is very cold there
>>and very damp, so it is not good for the costumes. Besides, the renaissance
>>dress i made was placed in the sunshine and it has almost lost its colour.
>>Therefore i have desided not to donate any more costumes there.
>>Some years there has ben exhibition of peoples embroidery in some nice
>>showrooms at Frederiksberg. I have thoaght about, i might could exhibit it
>>there..........

I certainly think they should have taken the same sort of care of 
your costumes as they do of their historical originals. Of course the 
originals are priceless and irreplaceable. But work the caliber of 
yours is not exactly cheap or easy to find either. I think it's 
possible for museum curators to be so focused on the old stuff that 
they assume the new stuff will survive without any special treatment 
-- after all, _it's_ not four hundred years old already.

Perhaps this is an American attitude  but I think you should find 
a way to gently tell them that you will not be giving them any more 
costumes because they did not give the ones you did give proper care. 
Museums usually do listen to people who give them things, and the 
only way they will know this is if they are told.
-- 
_________________________________________________________
O    Chris Laning
|     
+    Davis, California
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<<>>

        I was being spamed a lot on AOL, but have been fairly lucky on
Juno.  Of course, I am more careful about handing out my email address
now too.  As for censoring me - it is no great loss to anyone.  I do tend
to babble.  However, I had no idea it could get so bad that you got
hundreds of spams a day.  Horrors!

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 18:00:54 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Germanic hats 1500 to 1530's (kinda long)
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I looked and looked for my copy of the Triumph of Max and I'm pretty sure I 
loaned it someone along with my copy of the 2 vol. 16th c woodcut books. 
When I get them back I can scan more whole brim styles with much more 
detail then what I have above.

The brims do change a bit but the crowns or cap pieces are pretty 
consistent. The brim is often either slashed repeatedly and folded or not, 
bisected and flipped up or left down, or left whole.

Here is an image where the crown and brim pieces are clearly separate. You 
can just make out the peaks or points of the square top. The brim is 
slashed and left down.
http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach61.html

This is a great picture for a couple of reasons. At the top of the painting 
you get a nice view of the hat from the top. Below you can see two of the 
women wearing the hat with a bisected brim. The crown shows how the nap 
changes either due to folds or seams.
http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach50.html

Another top view. My hat crowns are all seamed. There are  quite a few 
pictures from the period which show crown that are parti-colored so it made 
more sense to me.
http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein2.html

On the bisected brims, these are a few images of Sybil of Cleeves wearing 
the hat with the brim split horizontally with the brim flipped up in front 
only. I'll have to look through a few books to find those. I did find one 
example of both sections being flipped up.
http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1500sbiancamaria.JPG

Here are some brims that were left whole. On these brims, you see them 
covered with pleats or just plain covered. Both styles seem to have the 
outside edge bound over which is how I do mine.
http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach67.html
http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1528margwasastockholm.JPG

Two examples of the slashed brims (one of my favorite paintings from this 
period). The brim pieces don't flop down. If you stitch the brim to the 
crown in just a few places, you get this look.
http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach28.html

Here are some images which show the stitching details. One hat uses small 
findings to decorate the junctions, others let the stitching show.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat3.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat4.jpg (notice the buttons on the 
right side bottom brim)
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat5.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat7.jpg

Or you can run a band through the brim flaps at get this look (images from 
a Durer catalog I have - Das Albrecht Durer Hausbush , 1975 Verlag KG, 
Munchen  )
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat2.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat6.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat8.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat9.jpg

And lastly, here is a doc that drew up fast this morning that might help 
folks looking to recreate one of the big whole brim styles.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hatdiagram.jpg
I make mine out of buckram and millinery wire, covered with pleats. If 
you're trying to reproduce the big hats being worn at an angle, I recommend 
cutting out an example of the brim in cardboard and playing with the head 
opening shape to get it fitted right. A too large opening, especially in 
the width, doesn't seem to sit on the head right.

I have a blue velvet hat I started but never finished that is half way 
pleated. I can try to get images of it to make the pleating instructions 
clearer once I buy more batteries for my camera (it's a pig).

Oh  ... I had to show this brim just for giggles 
http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein51.html

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis
proud to be sending emails filled with typos since 1991






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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 18:03:17 2003
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        Thanks Penny and Bjarne, but I can't send either of you pictures
as I don't have a functioning scanner or digital camera.  I hope to get a
scanner in the near future and then I will force myself to send pictures
even if I think I look awful.  I never have been photogenic.  The garb
actually looks good - I just wish it was on someone younger and slimmer
and pretty.  I usually get photos on CD when I get them developed, but
was in a hurry this time and did the one hour thing.  I guess I could
take the negatives in and get them on a CD.  I will check on that.  In
the meantime, thanks for the offers and moral support.  I will need it
next month when I have to be Mary Queen of Scots for five days at a Folk
Festival (Scottish pavilion) in St. Petersburg (FL, USA, that is).  
Still don't know how I got conned into that. 

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 18:03:20 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:02:56 +0000
To: Lisa Sinervo ,
        Century" "@net.indra.com
From: Jean Waddie 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] beauty pagent wave
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I'm so glad no-one can see me reading my email, as I sit here screwing 
in imaginary lightbulbs   I would say there's more movement in the 
wrist - more wafting perfumed smoke towards you.  But it reminded me of 
some Balkan dance hand movements - the lightbulb one and the "revving a 
motorbike" one, and of course the classic Minuet hand movement, "how's 
my nail polish doing?"

Jean


Lisa Sinervo  wrote
>oh, that is an excellent visual.  I shall remember that one for sure!
>
>Thanks,
>
>Lisa
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Penny Ladnier" 
>To: 
>Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 10:52 AM
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
>
>
>> The Beauty Queen wave... aka the Queen Elizabeth wave... raise your hand
>to
>> ear level and pretend you are screwing in a light bulb.  LOL!!!  Watch the
>> Queen wave!!!!
>>
>> Actually I learned that in 12th grade when I was in the Jr. Miss pageant.
>> My sister has worked with the contestants for Miss America and they teach
>> the same way to wave.
>>
>> Penny Ladnier
>> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
>> http://www.costumegallery.com
>> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
>> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
>>
>>
>> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
>(http://www.plugit.com)]
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> h-costume mailing list
>> h-costume@mail.indra.com
>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

-- 
Jean Waddie
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 18:12:42 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:14:36 -0800
To: Historical Costume 
From: Gwyn Carnegie 
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Subject: [h-cost] 
	(small corrections) Germanic hats 1500 to 1530's (kinda long)
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At 02:02 PM 2/27/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>On the bisected brims, these are a few images of Sybil of Cleeves wearing 
>the hat with the brim split horizontally with the brim flipped up in front 
>only. I'll have to look through a few books to find those. I did find one 
>example of both sections being flipped up.
>http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1500sbiancamaria.JPG

That image is of Mary of Burgundy. The images of Sybil I have to go look up.

>Here are some brims that were left whole. On these brims, you see them 
>covered with pleats or just plain covered. Both styles seem to have the 
>outside edge bound over which is how I do mine.
>http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach67.html
>http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1528margwasastockholm.JPG

These are plain brims, I'll have to get images of the pleated ones.

>Gwyn Carnegie
>University of California, Davis

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Baralier wrote:

> From: "Penny Ladnier" 
> > Okay, Nicole and Paul, what year did you start on the internet?
> >
> > Mine was 1995... we used Unix at the university for email.  The university
> > also made every class I took go to an orientation on how to use the www.
> In
> > 1996, I took the first classes offered at our college in web development
> and
> > another, in fashion drawing on computers. Boy, was I hooked then.  Another
> > class... I still use what I learned... layout for fashion magazines and
> the
> > web.
>
> I had access to the internet through other people's computers from about '95
> but it wasn't until late '97 that I got my own and had my own email etc.
> Spare time was non-existent from then on :-)
>

1995 seems to have been the year for getting on the net. I got online
in 94 also on a unix university system, although I don't think I got very
heavily into it until the next year.

>
> Though my first *home* computer was an Amiga 500...
>
> Press play on tape, go have cuppa, come back and see if the damn thing has
> finished loading!
>

Heh heh. I think my family was one of the first to have a home computer. We
had a Commodore 16 in 1983. Then we traded up to a +4 (noone has ever heard
of that one). Then an Amiga 500. I still have that Amiga 500 somewhere in a
box. It stills works, but needs a compatible monitor. I loved that computer.

To return a bit more to costume content I first started really looking into
costume
on the net in 95/96 and I think that the number of sites, and number of decent
sites
has increased considerably since then, and h-costume people have probably had
a lot to do with that.

Claire

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 18:14:29 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] beauty pagent wave
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Oh I love that!  We used to call the classic 'goth' dance  the
"oh i lost a quarter on the floor, now but I have no joints, let me
try to pick it up" dance.  (Lots of slow spiralling arms and bendy
backs. )


> 
> I'm so glad no-one can see me reading my email, as I sit here screwing 
> in imaginary lightbulbs   I would say there's more movement in the 
> wrist - more wafting perfumed smoke towards you.  But it reminded me of 
> some Balkan dance hand movements - the lightbulb one and the "revving a 
> motorbike" one, and of course the classic Minuet hand movement, "how's 
> my nail polish doing?"
> 
> Jean
> 
> 
> Lisa Sinervo  wrote
> >oh, that is an excellent visual.  I shall remember that one for sure!
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Lisa
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Penny Ladnier" 
> >To: 
> >Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 10:52 AM
> >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Graceful moves was: Ultrashort skirts
> >
> >
> >> The Beauty Queen wave... aka the Queen Elizabeth wave... raise your hand
> >to
> >> ear level and pretend you are screwing in a light bulb.  LOL!!!  Watch the
> >> Queen wave!!!!
> >>
> >> Actually I learned that in 12th grade when I was in the Jr. Miss pageant.
> >> My sister has worked with the contestants for Miss America and they teach
> >> the same way to wave.
> >>
> >> Penny Ladnier
> >> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> >> http://www.costumegallery.com
> >> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> >> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> >>
> >>
> >> [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners
> >(http://www.plugit.com)]
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> h-costume mailing list
> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >h-costume mailing list
> >h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> -- 
> Jean Waddie
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:27:43 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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> Since you have been web so long... do you remember what the first website
> concerning costume?

Since the web didn't come around until the mid-90s, it's hard to
remember.  The first costume websites were probably people like
members of this list putting up research and finished projects to show
them off.  From my point of view, the first sites I bookmarked were
probably SCA-related.

					...eliz

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:33:18 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 08:17:26AM -0800, Claire Clarke wrote:
> Heh heh. I think my family was one of the first to have a home computer. We
> had a Commodore 16 in 1983.

I had a definite advantage - my dad worked for IBM.  We had our first
PC in 1981 or 82.  We actually still have it, though it's been
upgraded many times until it couldn't go any further (probably reached
its limit 10 years ago).  I think it still works, tho it's certainly
very nearly a doorstop at this point.

We also used to have nice typewriters, too, like the IBM Correcting
Selectrix.  I still remember that one, and I think my folks still have
it, too.  

Hmm - no wonder I was raised to play nicely with my toys and I still
have many items from growing up that are in very good condition - it's
beginning to look like it ran in my family.

						...eliz
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 18:34:08 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
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Hi Penny.
The first costume site i visited was The Regency Fashion Page. I was so
impressed. All those wonderfull fashion prints.
But it was not that old days. We had our first computer in 97 and i remember
i started posting emails to sewinghistoric@onelist.com
I also remembers the costume room where you could post questions, and all
the wonderfull people who helped and replyed.
It is only 6 years ago, i think it feels much farer back in time.
We have come a long way,, have we not?

Bjarne

Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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        My first computer was a Sinclair with a whole 4 K memory.  I
ordered a 10 K chip that I installed myself with great fear and care.  I
absolutely had to have a tape recorder and was plugged into a black and
white TV.  I bought it in 1980.  I gave it to my sister when I got the
TRS-80.  Back then we had to copy programs from magazines and books or
learn Basic.  I was getting pretty good at Basic before I got spoiled
with the Tandy 1000's desk something that was a lot like Windows.  Even
that one didn't have a whole lot of memory - nothing like the gigabites I
have on my present hard drive.  Computers have come a looooong way!

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Given the recent discusisons about costumes for Barbie, I thought I'd pass
this along:
http://www.geocities.com/halsgal2000/baroqueken.html

The seamstress is a good friend of mine, and I'm extra proud of her
because I helped teach her to sew.
Things she doesn't mention:
The pattern is from Nora Waugh's _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ and everything
is hand sewn.  Everything she does is always hand sewn.  She has been
sewing for a year and a half.

emma

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 19:13:11 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Germanic hats 1500 to 1530's (kinda long)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:14:46 -0700
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Gwynn, thank you for the time and effort you put into putting this
together.  There were several hats I'd not seen and many, though I'd
seen them, had missed details you pointed out.  

I am likin' that one of Bianca Maria (?) A LOT!!

Sg

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Gwyn Carnegie
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:03 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Germanic hats 1500 to 1530's (kinda long)


I looked and looked for my copy of the Triumph of Max and I'm pretty
sure I 
loaned it someone along with my copy of the 2 vol. 16th c woodcut books.

When I get them back I can scan more whole brim styles with much more 
detail then what I have above.

The brims do change a bit but the crowns or cap pieces are pretty 
consistent. The brim is often either slashed repeatedly and folded or
not, 
bisected and flipped up or left down, or left whole.

Here is an image where the crown and brim pieces are clearly separate.
You 
can just make out the peaks or points of the square top. The brim is 
slashed and left down.
http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach61.html

This is a great picture for a couple of reasons. At the top of the
painting 
you get a nice view of the hat from the top. Below you can see two of
the 
women wearing the hat with a bisected brim. The crown shows how the nap 
changes either due to folds or seams.
http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach50.html

Another top view. My hat crowns are all seamed. There are  quite a few 
pictures from the period which show crown that are parti-colored so it
made 
more sense to me.
http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein2.html

On the bisected brims, these are a few images of Sybil of Cleeves
wearing 
the hat with the brim split horizontally with the brim flipped up in
front 
only. I'll have to look through a few books to find those. I did find
one 
example of both sections being flipped up.
http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1500sbiancamaria.JPG

Here are some brims that were left whole. On these brims, you see them 
covered with pleats or just plain covered. Both styles seem to have the 
outside edge bound over which is how I do mine.
http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach67.html
http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1528margwasastockholm.JPG

Two examples of the slashed brims (one of my favorite paintings from
this 
period). The brim pieces don't flop down. If you stitch the brim to the 
crown in just a few places, you get this look.
http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach28.html

Here are some images which show the stitching details. One hat uses
small 
findings to decorate the junctions, others let the stitching show.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat3.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat4.jpg (notice the buttons on the

right side bottom brim)
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat5.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat7.jpg

Or you can run a band through the brim flaps at get this look (images
from 
a Durer catalog I have - Das Albrecht Durer Hausbush , 1975 Verlag KG, 
Munchen  )
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat2.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat6.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat8.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat9.jpg

And lastly, here is a doc that drew up fast this morning that might help

folks looking to recreate one of the big whole brim styles.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hatdiagram.jpg
I make mine out of buckram and millinery wire, covered with pleats. If 
you're trying to reproduce the big hats being worn at an angle, I
recommend 
cutting out an example of the brim in cardboard and playing with the
head 
opening shape to get it fitted right. A too large opening, especially in

the width, doesn't seem to sit on the head right.

I have a blue velvet hat I started but never finished that is half way 
pleated. I can try to get images of it to make the pleating instructions

clearer once I buy more batteries for my camera (it's a pig).

Oh  ... I had to show this brim just for giggles 
http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein51.html

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis
proud to be sending emails filled with typos since 1991






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Well, we also had a Commodore 64, but I think I was 4 or 5 y.o. when my
parents bought it :-) My mom insisted we get Internet access in 91, I was
only 10 at the time and there was not much for me to do online yet. I was
born around the same time when computers came to private homes, and was a
teenager when the internet started becoming commonplace... I wonder what
adulthood will bring :-)
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Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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> 
> From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" 
> Date: 2003/02/27 Thu PM 03:06:25 EST
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
> 
> >

> 
> My first home computer was a Commodore 64. And my very first on-line access
> was Quantum Link, which evolved into AOL. I had a 300 baud modem.
> 
> Dianne

   My second home computer was the 64, I started with the old VIC 20 by Commodore.  I don't recall when I first accesed the actual WWW, but I accessed a number of BBSes in the old days and was on Quantam Leap.  Been on the H-cost list longer than I have been in Virginia, so that would have to have been at least by 94 or earlier 95.

Cheers,
Ron

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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From: 
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Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:30:51 -0500
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> 
> From: 
> Date: 2003/02/27 Thu PM 03:10:02 EST
> To: Historical Costume 
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
> 
> 
>      Actually I think shoe buckles got bigger as the century went on - they may 
> be 1790s instead of earlier.  Check different eras of fashion illustration to 
> see.


   I was wondering about this myself.  I have a pair of Sarah Juniper shoes for a program at work set in 1706.  These shoes are quite a but different than the late century shoes and sport a very small buckle!

   I didn't do the research on this however, and I know my wig is wrong (Even if Edes and Ravenscroft has been in business since 1699!).

Cheers.

Ron

Cheers,
Ron

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:19:04 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Germanic hats 1500 to 1530's (kinda long)
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>http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach28.html

Notice the difference in brim angle, between the slashed one and the 
not-slashed one.  The slashed one curves around the head, and sticks out 
perpendicular to the head, where the not-slashed one must fold up against 
the head to go around it.

>http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat3.jpg

The hats I make look like this one.  Notice the rolling the brim does 
between the slashing and the head, where it's not big enough, because of 
not being slashed, to flatten out perpendicular to the head.

>http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat7.jpg

Looks like a smocked neck to his shirt.

>http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hatdiagram.jpg

This is the c.1530 'pizza hat' I referred to, not the c.1505 hats like in 
Durer.


Kayta

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:42:54 -0800
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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>1995 seems to have been the year for getting on the net. I got online
>in 94 also on a unix university system, although I don't think I got very
>heavily into it until the next year.

I started in 1988, on whatever the historical costume thing on CompuServe was.

>Heh heh. I think my family was one of the first to have a home computer. We
>had a Commodore 16 in 1983. Then we traded up to a +4 (noone has ever heard
>of that one). Then an Amiga 500. I still have that Amiga 500 somewhere in a
>box. It stills works, but needs a compatible monitor. I loved that computer.

My first computer spoke only CPM.  But the first I ever worked on had 32K 
memory boards made with discrete components (late 70's), and which were the 
size of a vinyl LP record.

>To return a bit more to costume content I first started really looking into
>costume
>on the net in 95/96 and I think that the number of sites, and number of decent
>sites
>has increased considerably since then, and h-costume people have probably had
>a lot to do with that.

I used to drape a piece of antique cloth over my computer - does that count 
as costume content?


Kayta

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 20:18:46 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:20:04 -0500
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My husband is taking a college class in TCP/IP.  I asked him why was there a
serge of people coming online in 1995.  He handed me his textbook.  So I
read the history of the internet after dinner. 1995 was when ISPs were
developed.  This was to when the general public could access the internet
from their homes.

Eliza, I did read in the book how IBM and two other businesses were major
role players in the development of the internet.

To bring this back to a fashion/costume context... I had a college class in
1996 called fashion forecasting.  I remember the predictions were made in
computer and fashion trade magazines on how the fashion industry would
change within the next five years because of the internet.  Some of the
predictions were:

***There would be more home businesses than ever before.
***People would start purchasing a lot more on the internet.  I recall
having conversations with people at the time about how scared they were to
use their credit card online.  I think businesses like amazon, ebay, and
paypal have helped people get over that fear.
***Catalog retail businesses would move online and drop their print
catalogs.
***Because of the increase of people working at home, people would not be
dressing up as much as before to go out to work.  Casual wear would see and
increase because of this.
***The brick & mortar retail stores business would drop in sales because of
the increase of internet shopping.  I follow retail sales trends.  The top
retailer sales have dropped steadily over the past 7 years.  Where most
stores shoot for a 4% sales increase, the reality has dropped to 1-2%.
Several large chains cannot even pull the 1%.  Target and Walmart are the
exceptions to the rule.  Although in 1995 Walmart was really struggling...
the company was my stock market research project.
***The one prediction that was not made, but I made in the class, that there
would be more global marketing.  At the time, marketers thought global
marketing would never work, mainly because of cultural and language
differences.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030227.165540.-447425.1.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:28:58 -0500
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Lalah, I receive between 150-200 spams a day because of my website.  We are
changing to this new JavaScript code, that doesn't let spam crawlers read
the email address... but it is a long process to change that many webpages.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] beauty pagent wave
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:31:18 -0500
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Jean,

LOL!!! I thought the same thing after I wrote that message.  I wondered how
many people will try the lightbulb wave at their computer.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From: DarlaKDavis@aol.com
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Subject: [h-cost] beauty pagent wave
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In a message dated 2/27/2003 4:32:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
penny@costumegallery.com writes:


> I wondered how
> many people will try the lightbulb wave at their computer.
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> 

Guilty!

Darla
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 21:04:39 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <200302272119.h1RLJumu033970@jabberwock.wonderland.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:05:39 -0500
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Heather,

I agree with you on the censoring.  I turn on my email and walk out of the
room.  I receive so many repeat spams, sometimes up to 10 of one message.
The first thing I do when coming back in the room is start deleting spam.
The worse time for spam is after midnight to 6 am.  It is a slow web traffic
time and they can move bulk easily.

I sometimes get blocked by servers because when I sent out the Instructions
to get to a class; I BBC all the students the message.  Because of the BBC
or CC these messages, servers think I am spamming.  I am forever working
around this problem... students don't get instructions and get upset.  Then
I have to start making phone calls.

The reason for BBC, is because I can't possibly sent out individual messages
to all the students.  When I send the message out the students they want to
keep their email addresses private, so BBC is my only option.

I tried to set up email lists at yahoogroups and automatically subscribe the
students.  This gets blocked sometimes.  What a battle!

If someone sends your name to a site like spamcop, you have to spend time
getting off of their list.  Sorry, most of these places do not check to see
if it is really spam, they just add you to their list to block.  So everyone
who has downloaded those software programs will not receive your mail.

I can tell you this... my website host scans my email messages for viruses.
You all would be very surprised to see how many of these spammers are
sending out viruses because they have your name on their address book.  I
get ten to twenty viruses from spammers a day.  On a normal day, I receive
30-40 viruses total.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 21:15:50 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:17:27 -0700
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Subject: [h-cost] 
	Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza?was: Germanic hats 1500 to
	1530's (kinda long)
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>http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1500sbiancamaria.JPG

That image is of Mary of Burgundy. 

[Sg:] I have seen this image before, but can't remember where.  Does
anyone know the painter (Is it Cranach?)-I can't find it in my book if
it is.
[Sg:] Also, in looking around on the internet for other pictures of it,
I wondered if it was Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza as the
title of the jpg implies.
 [Sg:] Anyone know?

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 21:28:57 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:28:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Thompson-Herbert 
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To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] beauty pagent wave
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Heather Meadows  wrote:
> 
> Oh I love that!  We used to call the classic 'goth' dance  the
> "oh i lost a quarter on the floor, now but I have no joints, let me
> try to pick it up" dance.  (Lots of slow spiralling arms and bendy
> backs. )

We also call that the "I lost my contact lens" dance. ;}
That along with "Pluck an apple, see my apple!" dance, which is 
definitely related to the beauty pagent wave.

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com	      KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 21:30:43 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:30:43 -0800
To: Historical Costume 
From: Wendi Dunlap-Simpson 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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At 4:55 PM -0500 2/27/03, catpurson@juno.com wrote:
>However, I had no idea it could get so bad that you got
>hundreds of spams a day.  Horrors!

Delurking to reply --

Some of us have to have addresses widely available and accessible 
online. For example, I have an online business (selling art rubber 
stamps), so my address there is all over my website and other places 
as well. In that case, you can't just change your address and try to 
keep the new one offline... you are stuck with whatever spam you get. 
I also get hundreds per day. I have filters that catch many of them 
(filtering certain words or phrases that just aren't going to be in 
legitimate e-mails to that address), but the amount that still gets 
through is really, really bad.

It is highly frustrating because there really is nothing you can do. 
And many of the e-mails have to be opened, because even if they look 
slightly suspicious, they *might* be from a legit customer. (E-mails 
with the subject line "Question?" or "About an Order", etc.) Then I 
open them and it's not a customer at all... the body of the e-mail is 
beyond offensive -- selling bestiality websites and other 
pornographic stuff. If only they were all toner cartridge spam; at 
least that's not something that is so offensive. At least my e-mail 
is set up so that I will NEVER EVER see the images in those e-mails.

That doesn't even include the viruses I get. It's overwhelming. But I 
have a Mac and don't use the programs susceptible to them, so they 
are not a danger to me. Still.

Anyway, if you only get the rare spam, you are very very lucky. I 
can't go back to those days. I wish I could.

I know this is off-topic, and I am sorry. I just want people to 
understand how bad it gets for some of us.

Let's see... on topic...

At 1:54 PM -0500 2/27/03, catpurson@juno.com wrote:
>        As for costume content - I have just finished my Mary Queen of
>Scots garb - all done by hand, not a machine stitch on it.  Of course,
>she was a quarter of a century younger than me when she died, but I love
>the outfit.  And, no I can't show you because I don't have a scanner or a
>digital camera or a website.  Just think of a 68 year old, 160 pound, 5
>ft 9 in tall, lady in a black velveteen gown with white partlet and open
>neck ruff and white Mary Stuart cap with lace edged floor length veil,
>and be glad you can't see it.

Um. DROOOOOOOL! Oh, I want to see the costume! It does sound wonderful.

Though I generally do 13th-14th Century, I really do want to try 
something 16th Century someday. It's just... time and money, like 
everything else. And at the moment, nowhere to sew as my house is 
torn up to redo the living room.
-- 
-- Wendi

*-----------------------+---------------------------------------+-------*
  \ Wendi Dunlap-Simpson | litlnemo at slumberland.seattle.wa.us | dear /
  / Seattle, Wash., USA  | http://www.slumberland.seattle.wa.us  |  23  \
*--"Somehow everything will be a little different than you thought"-----*
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030227.175937.-447425.5.catpurson@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:36:14 -0500
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The price of computers has really come down too!!!  In 1998, I have my P2
computer built for me special to handle a lot of graphics.  It cost me
$3,000.  I can't tell you how much we have added to this computer.  It took
so long to transfer all the files from one computer to another... I don't
want to do it again for a long while.  I am very pleased with what I have...
my theory is the you add something faster, you get used to it, and then you
want to go faster.  I'm not into that game.  We have faster computers in the
house, I just don't use them.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:49:30 -0800
From: kris 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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I guess I should clarify my meaning. IE: if a commercial announcement comes 
through on the list saying "The moderator doesn't mind if I post this" then 
that's moderator's approval. Also, most of the lists I'm on have protected 
email addresses. Unfortunately this list doesn't, and I hadn't realized 
that. This means that I am un-subscribing this email address. C'est la vie.
kris

At 08:13 AM 27/02/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>  --- kris  wrote: >
> > My take on this is that if it had come through the h-cost list, with full
> > h-cost headers, and the moderators approval,
>
>There is no such thing as the moderator's approval. Eliz definitely doesn't
>look ateach mesage before it is allowed on the list thus you can post what you
>like before it is found out. Also, membership is not by approval but is
>automated. I am afraid to say that even on email lists, no matter where they
>are hosted, you ahve to be just as careful as out there in the big wide nasty
>internet-world.
>
>Gosh I SO miss the good old sweet and innocent days of the beginnings of the
>Internet. Oh well.
>
>Nicole

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To: "Historical Costume" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza?was: Germanic
	hats 1500 to1530's (kinda long)
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 2:17 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza?was: Germanic hats
1500 to1530's (kinda long)


> >http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1500sbiancamaria.JPG
> [Sg:] I have seen this image before, but can't remember where.  Does
> anyone know the painter (Is it Cranach?)-I can't find it in my book if
> it is.

Not Cranach.. I have read in several publications that it was Bianca Maria..
was one of them Max von Boehm's? I can't recall. I'd like to know

> [Sg:] Also, in looking around on the internet for other pictures of it,
> I wondered if it was Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza as the
> title of the jpg implies.

I'd like to know if it was Mary of Burgundy (as she would have been dead
surely by 1500? I've only seen a painting of Mary of Burgundy which is that
turban one...
Yep, she died in 1482. No way she would have worn that dress. Unless it was
one of those post morten portraits;)
As here:
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/bnpu/ho_1975.1.137.htm
http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/p/pacher/4mary.html (perhaps the original?)


So please, point to me a reference to it being identified as Mary, as on my
notes I have a (?) next to Bianca Maria (thought that may have been did I
spell this right;)

Did find this funky page of interesting german women's garb:
http://members.fortunecity.com/reisenge/TIROL/altst/dachl.htm

Just ones I'd not seen before anyway;)

And then there's this image that looks like the portrait in question:
http://www.thais.it/speciali/disegni/scheda0066.htm hat and low scooped
neckline, but she is in profile.

So yes, please let me know the reference. I'll try and find the book I
scanned the image from in the first place (done at a time I neglected to
take decent notes... sigh) and find the other reference to the painting I
found too.

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume
http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com so much work to do on that.. I may leave it
for a few months.. more months anyway;)



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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 22:29:48 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:34:25 -0700
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Self-Illuminating fabric
From: sylvia 
To: 
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on 2/26/03 8:12 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond at cathy@thyrsus.com wrote:

> For any of you who do not confine your efforts purely to historic fabric,
> here's an article about one of the newest developments in
> textiles--self-illuminating fabric--
> 
> http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2003/feb/glow/index.html
> 
> and here's the manufacturer's site:
> 
> http://www.luminex.it/index_eng.html
> 
> This stuff look really cool.  I can see it for dance costumes especially.  I
wish there was some info about when and where  it would be on the market.

Sylvia Rognstad, another mother for peace
-- 
Divinity Designs and Emeralds
http://www.d-e-designs.com



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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza?was:
	Germanichats 1500 to1530's (kinda long)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:49:59 -0700
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Looks like you've been looking in the same places as I.   I found a
tantalizing link to a portrait by Bernadino de Conti, but it doesn't
work and I can't find anything else on it.

http://crdp.ac-lille.fr/site-italien/louvre.htm  Go down to the Milan
section.

Then there is the one by Ambrogio de Predis

http://www.artehistoria.com/frames.htm?http://www.artehistoria.com/genio
s/cuadros/4432.htm

Both supposedly of Maria Bianca.  

I am glad  you responded.  I hate to admit it, but I can never remember
your name and can never find it on your website!  

Sg


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Subject: [h-cost] Re: Are these the kind of hats we are discussing? (Was
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Not what I was thinking of, at least.  I am looking for the big "pizza 
hats" (not my name, but it more or less fits), such as those in some of 
the older drawings of the Landsknecht and camp followers that I've seen. 
 Though I'll admit that many of those that I've seen are a bit 
exaggerated even compared to the pictures of the larger ones with *many* 
plumes.

Oh... and thanks to those who have been putting information out on the 
list!  I've been forwarding anything that might help my friend along to 
her... and I believe she's joined the GermanRenCostume group (or is 
planning to) to look for more info.

-Elisabeth

>From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
>
>Just trying to pinpoint what we are discussing. This is not what I had in mind, but thought a picture would help clarify.
> 
>http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/durer/p-durer62.htm
> 
>http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer48.html
> 
>


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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: 
Subject: FW: [GermanRenCostume] FW: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria
	Sforza?was: Germanichats 1500 to1530's (kinda long)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:08:23 -0700
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Katherine also wrote to correct herself that it should be Bernhard.
 
Here is the Louvre painting (Talk about using the back door to get to
it)
 
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0001/m503604_92ee2083_p.jp
g
 
Sg
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Katherine Barich [mailto:wheezul@canby.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:05 PM
To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [GermanRenCostume] FW: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy or Bianca
Maria Sforza?was: Germanichats 1500 to1530's (kinda long)
 
Artist:  Berhard Strigel
Sitter:  Bianca Maria Sforza, 2nd wife of Maximilian I.  I have 
been hunting for a color copy - I have a Strigel book, but no luck!

I find her combination of German and Italian interesting.

Katherine


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
Reply-To: GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com
Date:  Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:53:14 -0700

>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

>Can any of you help us solve this puzzle?
> 
>Who is the artist and the sitter?
> 
>http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1500sbiancamaria.JPG
> 
>Sg
> 
> 
>-----Original Message-----
>From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-
bounces@indra.com]
>On Behalf Of michaela
>Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:18 PM
>To: Historical Costume
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza?was:
>Germanichats 1500 to1530's (kinda long)
> 
> 
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
>To: "'Historical Costume'" 
>Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 2:17 PM
>Subject: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza?was: 
Germanic
>hats
>1500 to1530's (kinda long)
> 
> 
>> >http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1500sbiancamaria.JPG
>> [Sg:] I have seen this image before, but can't remember where.  
Does
>> anyone know the painter (Is it Cranach?)-I can't find it in my 
book if
>> it is.
> 
>Not Cranach.. I have read in several publications that it was 
Bianca
>Maria..
>was one of them Max von Boehm's? I can't recall. I'd like to know
> 
>> [Sg:] Also, in looking around on the internet for other 
pictures of
>it,
>> I wondered if it was Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza as 
the
>> title of the jpg implies.
> 
>I'd like to know if it was Mary of Burgundy (as she would have 
been dead
>surely by 1500? I've only seen a painting of Mary of Burgundy 
which is
>that
>turban one...
>Yep, she died in 1482. No way she would have worn that dress. 
Unless it
>was
>one of those post morten portraits;)
>As here:
>http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/bnpu/ho_1975.1.137.htm
>http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/p/pacher/4mary.html (perhaps the
>original?)
> 
> 
>So please, point to me a reference to it being identified as 
Mary, as on
>my
>notes I have a (?) next to Bianca Maria (thought that may have 
been did
>I
>spell this right;)
> 
>Did find this funky page of interesting german women's garb:
>http://members.fortunecity.com/reisenge/TIROL/altst/dachl.htm
> 
>Just ones I'd not seen before anyway;)
> 
>And then there's this image that looks like the portrait in 
question:
>http://www.thais.it/speciali/disegni/scheda0066.htm hat and low 
scooped
>neckline, but she is in profile.
> 
>So yes, please let me know the reference. I'll try and find the 
book I
>scanned the image from in the first place (done at a time I 
neglected to
>take decent notes... sigh) and find the other reference to the 
painting
>I
>found too.
> 
>michaela
>http://recital.tripod.com/costume
>http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com so much work to do on that.. I may 
leave
>it
>for a few months.. more months anyway;)
> 
> 
> 
>_______________________________________________
>h-costume mailing list
>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
>

               




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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:15:08 -0500
From: Gail & Scott Finke 
To: 
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I hate it when people attach the whole digest, but I wanted to show you what
I got when Penny tried to send an attachment -- just her letter! And look at
all the messages I didn't get!

Personally, I think this is too many messages for one digest. Elizabeth, can
you adjust this new software so that it doesn't do so many? Some people's
software would thank you!

Gail Finke


on 2/27/03 12:08 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com at
h-costume-request@indra.com wrote:

> Send h-costume mailing list submissions to
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> h-costume-request@mail.indra.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. INCOMING ATTACHMENT (Penny Ladnier)
> 2. Re: INCOMING ATTACHMENT (Agnes Gawne)
> 3. Re: Is there a new virus (Agnes Gawne)
> 4. Re: INCOMING ATTACHMENT (Penny Ladnier)
> 5. Dover print was : Lansknecht hat (Saragrace Knauf)
> 6. 18c shoe buckles (prairielark)
> 7. Re: Landsknecht hat (Liz / Cozit)
> 8. Re: Dover print was : Lansknecht hat (Gwyn Carnegie)
> 9. Re: Re: long hair -streaks (Glenda Robinson)
> 10. Re: Re: long hair -streaks (Penny Ladnier)
> 11. Landschneker hat (Lloyd Mitchell)
> 12. Re: new magazine - another try (Lisa Sinervo)
> 13. Re: Bjarne's suit (Lloyd Mitchell)
> 14. Recreating and preservation. (Lloyd Mitchell)
> 15. Re: new magazine - another try (IceGirlNIN@aol.com)
> 16. Self-Illuminating fabric (Catherine Olanich Raymond)
> 17. Re: book sale (Catherine Olanich Raymond)
> 18. Re: new magazine - another try (Kendra Van Cleave)
> 19. Re: new magazine - another try (kris)
> 20. Re: Dover print was : Lansknecht hat (Carolyn Kayta Barrows)
> 21. Re: Bjarne's suit (kris)
> 22. Re: Is there a new virus (Elizabeth Lear)
> 23. Bjarne's coat (Melanie Schuessler)
> 24. Re: Extant Landsknecht Pants-Wow!  Anyone speak Swedish?
> (Lyn Greaves- home)
> 25. Re: Bjarne's coat (Catherine Olanich Raymond)
> 26. Re: New Textile Technology-smell in your clothes!
> (Dianne and Greg Stucki)
> 27. landsknecht hat, scratchy illos available (Carolyn Kayta Barrows)
> 28. Re: new magazine - another try (Penny Ladnier)
> 29. Re: new magazine - another try (Janet Davis)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:16:29 -0500
> From: "Penny Ladnier" 
> Subject: [h-cost] INCOMING ATTACHMENT
> To: "h-costume" 
> Message-ID: <007901c2ddf5$79930740$0400a8c0@comcast.net>
> 
> This is a test to see if attachments are coming through the list.  This is
> not a virus, but a test image.
> 
> Penny Ladnier
> Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
> http://www.costumegallery.com
> http://www.costumeclassroom.com
> http://www.onlinecostumeball.com
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 23:17:15 2003
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on 2/27/03 2:04 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at
h-costume-request@indra.com wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:54:53 -0500
> From: catpurson@juno.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
> To: nicole@kipar.org, h-costume@indra.com
> Message-ID: <20030227.135454.-143941.0.catpurson@juno.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 

> 
> Much as spam annoys me, I have to agree with you here.  It really
> isn't any worse than the junk mail I get in my snail mail box.  I just
> toss that in the waste container and I delete the spam.  Neither are as
> bad as the telemarketers who call at the most inconvenient times!.
> 

Lalah and Nicole, I have to disagree with you here. I have gotten extremely
pornographic messages (HTML ones, I guess) complete with disgusting photos
that are not attachments. Luckily my kids are too young to get email, but
they won't be forever. Most spam is just annoying, but this really crosses
the line.

I do not think that anyone should be able to send me this kind of
unsolicited message. I dropped my AOL account partly because it had terrible
service, but partly because of the sheer volume of pornography offers. Now
my new service is great, but this sort of message is starting to get through
the spam filters. I don't want to see lots of regulation, but really this is
too much.

Obligatory costume content . . . none. The people in the pictures weren't
wearing anything!

Gail Finke


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 23:31:06 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:32:48 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New list settings: please check/help
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Hokay Nicole, the 'reply-to' thing should be working correctly now.

					...eliz

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 23:32:58 2003
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From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New list settings: please check/help
Message-ID: <20030228033432.GD14508@net.indra.com>
References: <20030227201223.87306.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
	
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On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 12:36:52PM -0800, Agnes Gawne wrote:
> Actually - I like the thought of posts coming directly back to the sender
> and also to the group - is it perhaps something we could "opt-in" to... in
> other words, if I like the direct response I can have it and if Nicole
> doesn't like that she can choose not to get it?

I think it's all or nothing.  The setting is for the whole list and
strips any 'reply-to' other than the one the list inserts.

						...eliz

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Thu Feb 27 23:50:39 2003
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From: "Penny Ladnier" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 5
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:51:49 -0500
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Gaile,

I am on digest version on a couple of other chatty lists.  The max I receive
is around this size and it is a lot to go through.  My sympathies to those
on digest.  I know exactly what you are going through.  The other problems I
have found is when people don't delete out the old message when replying...
it makes the digest even larger.

Usually digest version will not send the images, but in place a lot of junk
code will show up that is very long.  I am sorry to those on digest for
sending the image. But I wanted to test if attachments were going through
the list or if we were getting viruses.  It turned out it was attachments
getting through.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom
http://www.costumegallery.com
http://www.costumeclassroom.com
http://www.onlinecostumeball.com


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 00:01:26 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Some hard data on Luminex, direct from the source.
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A friend on another list circulated the following data about the new optic 
fiber fabric I posted about yesterday.  It's unlikely any of us will be using 
the stuff soon--it's $280 USD a yard (with a 50 yard minimum).  However, I 
thought some of you might enjoy reading about it.



[text cut here]

Thank you for your interest in Luminex...

We are Zuzka, the exclusive Distribution & Product Development team for
Luminex in the US & Canada.

Yes, the optical fiber fabric is available for purchase!

The minimum is 50 yards per fabric type, however, we will soon be able to
offer smaller quantities for small projects.

The fabric is woven with optical fiber (and is illuminated by the highest
quality LED's using various power sources-3.6v rechargeable batteries or AC
"plug-in") in the following fabrics:


- Double sided LED polyester (sheer quality/ 7 colors) 58 "w    $280/yd
- Lycra  58 "w   $280/yd
- Super Velo (extra densely woven optical fibers)      TK


LED colors available: white, blue, red, green, &yellow

Standard fabrics allow the LED color to be different every 18"

Double sided fabrics are capable of having two different colored LED's
merging into the same fibers to create additional colors

Orders for quantity and for custom made sample products (i.e: pillows,
jackets, etc.) can processed by phone and finished to your specs.

Yardage Prices do not include rechargeable 3.6v battery and recharging kit.

all SAMPLES must be purchased: $234-364/yd
battery:  $24 per battery
recharger kit: $26 per recharger.

weaves available include 7 kinds of poly's: white, blue, silver, gold, red,
green, cream & black


Delivery is currently 4-8 weeks

please do not hesitate to contact me for more info:


Christopher Berger
Zuzka for Fabricology Inc.
37 East 18th Street, Suite 10
New York, NY 10003

T   212. 260.1876
F 212. 260.7963

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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One of the Ladies in our group has a small streak on the back part of
her head- "piebald-ism" I think she called it, apparently runs in the
family.
Betsy

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Elizabeth Lear
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:14 AM
To: Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th
Century
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: long hair


Actor Scott Bakula has a white streak over his forehead.  He's had it
since at least high school, and says it's completely natural.  You can
see it clearly in episodes of QUANTUM LEAP, but it seems to have been
minimized for ENTERPRISE.

						...eliz

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 00:18:46 2003
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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:58:51 -0500
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On Thursday 27 February 2003 05:04 pm, catpurson@juno.com wrote:

[text cut here]

>The garb
> actually looks good - I just wish it was on someone younger and slimmer
> and pretty.  

Ah, but for Elizabethan (and quite a few other periods before the 20th 
century) the magnificance of the clothing was all that really mattered.  In 
those days, the point was for mature folks like yourself to display their 
wealth and taste, not to adorn youth.

Nowadays, costumers doing Elizabethan are seldom wealthy, but still like to 
show off their taste--and their skill.

Enjoy the Folk Festival!

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 00:00:12 -0500
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On Thursday 27 February 2003 01:54 pm, catpurson@juno.com wrote:
[text cut here]

     As for costume content - I have just finished my Mary Queen of
> Scots garb - all done by hand, not a machine stitch on it.  Of course,
> she was a quarter of a century younger than me when she died, but I love
> the outfit.  And, no I can't show you because I don't have a scanner or a
> digital camera or a website.  Just think of a 68 year old, 160 pound, 5
> ft 9 in tall, lady in a black velveteen gown with white partlet and open
> neck ruff and white Mary Stuart cap with lace edged floor length veil,
> and be glad you can't see it.

I'm sorry I can't see it.  It sounds dignified and beautiful.

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 02:08:57 2003
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From: "David" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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My husband had a TRS-80 when I married him, in 1980.  We Compuserve'd, too.
We upgraded to a Commodore 64, with a cassette tape drive, in 1984.  We kept
the Commodore (with various upgrades) for 11 years, followed by a succession
of better and better PC's.  I'm the only person I know who *doesn't* own
their own ISP that has had the same email address since 1992 (and I just
signed up for another 5 years!). Ah, memories!

I know this isn't costume content (I'm so sorry I don't have any today), but
I need everyone who is willing to send me their prayers, good thoughts, and
any spare good karma they may have laying around.

Today we found out that the tennis-ball sized mass in my lung is indeed
cancer.  I'm undergoing some pretty major surgery on Tuesday, just how
extensive it will be won't be known until they get in there, and can see
what's needed.  I'll look forward to catching up on reading the very
interesting h-cost letters (and seeing more pictures of Bjarne's to drool
over work!) when I get out of the hospital, about a week later.  It'll
probably be a bit after that until I'm up to actually typing, but I'll let
y'all know how I'm doing when I can.

Pam Dotson
Everett, WA  USA


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 02:18:49 2003
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From: "Melanie Wilson" 
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>.  I'm undergoing some pretty major surgery on Tuesday, just how
extensive it will be won't be known until they get in there, and can see
what's needed

All the best, my thoughts will be with you
Mel

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
Company, unless specifically stated.



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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 03:57:32 2003
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	Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:59:06 GMT
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:59:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: To Pam, Re: [h-cost] in the old days
To: Historical Costume 
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Dear Pam,

My very very best thought and wishes to you. You know, I believe in that this
makes a difference when someone thinks of you and sends 'good vibes' (for lack
of a better word. I am doing the same with my little godchild-Princess, so lots
of VERY good thoughts to you.

Nicole

> Today we found out that the tennis-ball sized mass in my lung is indeed
> cancer.  I'm undergoing some pretty major surgery on Tuesday, just how
> extensive it will be won't be known until they get in there, and can see
> what's needed.  I'll look forward to catching up on reading the very
> interesting h-cost letters (and seeing more pictures of Bjarne's to drool
> over work!) when I get out of the hospital, about a week later.  It'll
> probably be a bit after that until I'm up to actually typing, but I'll let
> y'all know how I'm doing when I can.
> 
> Pam Dotson
> Everett, WA  USA
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 04:00:13 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New list settings: please check/help
To: Historical Costume 
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 --- Elizabeth Lear  wrote: > 
> Hokay Nicole, the 'reply-to' thing should be working correctly now.
> 
> 					...eliz

Tank you SO much! This means that whenever I do get a mail with 'h-cost' to my
main email address and not the yahoo one, which is my special h-cost adress,
that it is offlist. That's super!

Nicole - in awe of people like Eliz who have been 'online' since the dark ages
of computers (Germany was much much slower, English speaking countries came first)

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
To: Historical Costume 
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 --- kris  wrote: > I guess I should clarify my meaning.
IE: if a commercial announcement comes 
> through on the list saying "The moderator doesn't mind if I post this" then 
> that's moderator's approval. Also, most of the lists I'm on have protected 
> email addresses. Unfortunately this list doesn't, and I hadn't realized 
> that. This means that I am un-subscribing this email address. C'est la vie.
> kris

Now that totally confuzzled me. What are you talking about? :-) Sorry, didn't
understand at all, but is okay, not so important. *S*

Costume content.... well, I molded my new waistcoat to my freshly
molded-onto-me dummy and boy does it look great! Lotsa curves. ;-))))

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
To: Historical Costume 
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 --- r.carnegie@verizon.net wrote: > 

>    I was wondering about this myself.  I have a pair of Sarah Juniper shoes
> for a program at work set in 1706.  These shoes are quite a but different
> than the late century shoes and sport a very small buckle!

That's right, if you want to know more, I did lots of research on pretty much
exactly these years, 1700-1710.

>    I didn't do the research on this however, and I know my wig is wrong (Even
> if Edes and Ravenscroft has been in business since 1699!).

Have one made! That's the only one you can really get a correct one, if you
know of a cheaper way I am MOST interested to know :-)

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Baroque Ken 
To: Historical Costume 
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 --- Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> wrote: > 
> Given the recent discusisons about costumes for Barbie, I thought I'd pass
> this along:
> http://www.geocities.com/halsgal2000/baroqueken.html
> 
> The seamstress is a good friend of mine, and I'm extra proud of her
> because I helped teach her to sew.

COOL!!!! Just a shame Ken doesn't have a lil periwig and early flat-crowned
tricorne, silk stockings and wee heeled and buckled shoes *grins*

> Things she doesn't mention:
> The pattern is from Nora Waugh's _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ and everything
> is hand sewn.  Everything she does is always hand sewn.  She has been
> sewing for a year and a half.

It's great, let her know from someone whose specialist period is that one, that
it looks fantastic.

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza?was:Germanichats
	1500 to1530's (kinda long)
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> Looks like you've been looking in the same places as I.   I found a
> tantalizing link to a portrait by Bernadino de Conti, but it doesn't
> work and I can't find anything else on it.
> http://crdp.ac-lille.fr/site-italien/louvre.htm  Go down to the Milan
> section.

And responding to the other email, yes I'd seen that portrait in my trawl
today too;) Different link, but same portrait:)

> Then there is the one by Ambrogio de Predis
>
> http://www.artehistoria.com/frames.htm?http://www.artehistoria.com/genio
> s/cuadros/4432.htm
>
> Both supposedly of Maria Bianca.
> I am glad  you responded.  I hate to admit it, but I can never remember
> your name and can never find it on your website!

lol! No, I don't have it at my site, I do have a mail form now so people can
email me:)

michaela
http://recital.tripod.com/costume



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In a message dated 2/28/03 1:19:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
MelanieWilson@dragonflight.co.uk writes:


> >.  I'm undergoing some pretty major surgery on Tuesday, just how
> extensive it will be won't be known until they get in there, and can see
> what's needed
> 
> 

Thoughts and prayers headed your way.
Regards,
Sharon
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From: "Stevie Gamble" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
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Subject: Re: To Pam, Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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Pam,

Daughter and I went to the Party at the Palace last summer and heard
one of the greatest songs of 'the old days' by one of the greatest
groups of 'the old days'.
So we're both thinking of you and singing 'Good Vibrations' in your
direction now, and will carry on doing so throughout your treatment.
very best wishes
Stevie

>
> > Today we found out that the tennis-ball sized mass in my lung is
indeed
> > cancer.  I'm undergoing some pretty major surgery on Tuesday, just
how
> > extensive it will be won't be known until they get in there, and
can see
> > what's needed.  I'll look forward to catching up on reading the
very
> > interesting h-cost letters (and seeing more pictures of Bjarne's
to drool
> > over work!) when I get out of the hospital, about a week later.
It'll
> > probably be a bit after that until I'm up to actually typing, but
I'll let
> > y'all know how I'm doing when I can.
> >
> > Pam Dotson
> > Everett, WA  USA
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
> =====
> "Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb.
2003)
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 09:16:48 2003
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: 
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Subject: [h-cost] book search 16th century laundry tips
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Has any one ever come across a reprint of Leonard Mascall's A Profitable Book declaring dyvers approoved remedies to take out spottes and staines in silkes, velvets, linnnen and wollen clothes (London, 1853)  its quoted as a reference in Alison Sim's "The Tudor Housewife".  I'd love to see the contents of it.

Thanks,


Lisa Sinervo
Threadneedle St. Clothiers
www.ThreadneedleSt.com
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Germanic hats 1500 to 1530's (kinda long)
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Thank toy Gwen!  I guess I need to check out some more Art books from the
college library.  These are so right on with details of the style and
constructions. You've made my day.
Kathleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gwyn Carnegie" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Germanic hats 1500 to 1530's (kinda long)


>
> I looked and looked for my copy of the Triumph of Max and I'm pretty sure
I
> loaned it someone along with my copy of the 2 vol. 16th c woodcut books.
> When I get them back I can scan more whole brim styles with much more
> detail then what I have above.
>
> The brims do change a bit but the crowns or cap pieces are pretty
> consistent. The brim is often either slashed repeatedly and folded or not,
> bisected and flipped up or left down, or left whole.
>
> Here is an image where the crown and brim pieces are clearly separate. You
> can just make out the peaks or points of the square top. The brim is
> slashed and left down.
> http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach61.html
>
> This is a great picture for a couple of reasons. At the top of the
painting
> you get a nice view of the hat from the top. Below you can see two of the
> women wearing the hat with a bisected brim. The crown shows how the nap
> changes either due to folds or seams.
> http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach50.html
>
> Another top view. My hat crowns are all seamed. There are  quite a few
> pictures from the period which show crown that are parti-colored so it
made
> more sense to me.
> http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein2.html
>
> On the bisected brims, these are a few images of Sybil of Cleeves wearing
> the hat with the brim split horizontally with the brim flipped up in front
> only. I'll have to look through a few books to find those. I did find one
> example of both sections being flipped up.
> http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1500sbiancamaria.JPG
>
> Here are some brims that were left whole. On these brims, you see them
> covered with pleats or just plain covered. Both styles seem to have the
> outside edge bound over which is how I do mine.
> http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach67.html
> http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1528margwasastockholm.JPG
>
> Two examples of the slashed brims (one of my favorite paintings from this
> period). The brim pieces don't flop down. If you stitch the brim to the
> crown in just a few places, you get this look.
> http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach28.html
>
> Here are some images which show the stitching details. One hat uses small
> findings to decorate the junctions, others let the stitching show.
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat3.jpg
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat4.jpg (notice the buttons on the
> right side bottom brim)
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat5.jpg
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat7.jpg
>
> Or you can run a band through the brim flaps at get this look (images from
> a Durer catalog I have - Das Albrecht Durer Hausbush , 1975 Verlag KG,
> Munchen  )
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat2.jpg
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat6.jpg
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat8.jpg
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hat9.jpg
>
> And lastly, here is a doc that drew up fast this morning that might help
> folks looking to recreate one of the big whole brim styles.
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gcarnegie/hatdiagram.jpg
> I make mine out of buckram and millinery wire, covered with pleats. If
> you're trying to reproduce the big hats being worn at an angle, I
recommend
> cutting out an example of the brim in cardboard and playing with the head
> opening shape to get it fitted right. A too large opening, especially in
> the width, doesn't seem to sit on the head right.
>
> I have a blue velvet hat I started but never finished that is half way
> pleated. I can try to get images of it to make the pleating instructions
> clearer once I buy more batteries for my camera (it's a pig).
>
> Oh  ... I had to show this brim just for giggles
> http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein51.html
>
> Gwyn Carnegie
> University of California, Davis
> proud to be sending emails filled with typos since 1991
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 09:41:17 2003
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To: "Re-creating period costume, from the Bronzeage to the mid-20th Century"
	
Subject: Re: [h-cost] swedish translation
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Lisa Sinervo wrote:
> I am also abit dubius of my dad's translation of "dynamic male magtbud" as
> dynamic male looks" coming after a line about a codpiece.  I come from a
> fairly conservative family.  :)

Whoops, real life got in the way there for a few days. :) The word 
"maktspråk" is difficult to translate; the direct translation is "power 
language" and implies some form of communication of power. So the way I 
read this text ("I 1500-talets europeiska furstemode framhävs ett dynastiskt 
grundat manligt maktspråk") is: "In the 1500's, European royal fashion 
emphasized a dynastically* grounded masculine power". The exact meaning 
of this sentence wasn't entirely clear in either language, I think, but 
this at least approximates the general meaning. :) 

* dynastically, adverb of dynastic (again from the online M-W): 
1 : a succession of rulers of the same line of descent
2 : a powerful group or family that maintains its position for a 
considerable time


Ingrid


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ingrid G. Storrø" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] swedish translation
> 
> 
> > On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Kate M Bunting wrote:
> > > I didn't have my Swedish dictionary to hand yesterday, but
> > > having looked up a few words, can I venture to suggest that "
> > > användandet av silke reglerades i dräktforordningar "  could be
> > > translated as "The use of silk was controlled by sumptuary laws"
> > > (literally "costume regulations")?
> >
> > Yep, spot on. :)
> >
> > Ingrid
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 09:45:47 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 05:47:07 -0800 (PST)
From: prairielark 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
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Thank you, someone else sent me this wonderful link, all about 18c shoe buckles, which I will share with the list:

http://www.candicehern.com/collections/02/buckles.htm

Apparently, these buckles are right in line with the period in which we set the wedding!  We were undoubtedly confused, and yes, now that I think about it, buckles were much smaller earlier in the century.  We just were so surprised when they came and they were so huge.  These look very much like the ones worn by the Duke of Cumberland in the portrait on the website.  Thanks to all who helped.  We will try the solution Carol suggests, my love is good with leather and her suggestion seems as if it will work best.  Which now begs the question, perhaps the lachets on these shoes are not really the right size for last qtr 18c??

Just wondering,
Phoebe


>>      Actually I think shoe buckles got bigger as the century went on - they may 
>> be 1790s instead of earlier.  Check different eras of fashion illustration to 
>> see.
>
>
>   I was wondering about this myself.  I have a pair of Sarah Juniper shoes for a program at work set in 1706.  These shoes are quite a but different than the late century shoes and sport a very small buckle!
>

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 10:00:07 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:01:26 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 5
Message-ID: <20030228140126.GB26360@net.indra.com>
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I've cut the digest size by 1/4 - digest people should let me know if
that's still too big.

						...eliz

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 10:15:37 2003
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Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
To: Historical Costume 
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 --- prairielark  wrote: > 
> is good with leather and her suggestion seems as if it will work best.  Which
> now begs the question, perhaps the lachets on these shoes are not really the
> right size for last qtr 18c??

The question is I suppose if the shoes are meant for upper- or working class. I
suppose that might make a difference in latchet?

Nicole

=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 10:31:46 2003
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From: "Five Rivers" 
To: 
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:32:49 -0500
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Subject: [h-cost] early 15th century ladies undergarments
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    So, we know ladies were wearing a corset or stay under the Burgundian
gowns and houppelands of the early 15th century. However, were ladies
wearing a corset or stay under a cotehardie and sideless surcoat? Anyone
know?

    And do we have any documentation of pantloons being worn in the early
15th century by ladies, as a regular thing, not as an exception to the rule?

Regards
Lorina
Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
supplies
(519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org  email:
info@5rivers.org


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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:49:42 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
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On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 07:20:04PM -0500, Penny Ladnier wrote:
> My husband is taking a college class in TCP/IP.  I asked him why was there a
> serge of people coming online in 1995.  He handed me his textbook.  So I
> read the history of the internet after dinner. 1995 was when ISPs were
> developed.  This was to when the general public could access the internet
> from their homes.

Hmm, I'm going to disagree with this, as someone who was there and
working at an ISP beginning in 1989.

We definitely had competition in 1992 - I think that's when Netcom
showed up, Digex came into being, and local MA companies like Shorenet
started up in people's basements.  The Well, out in CA, was a BBS that
hooked up to the net in 1991 or so.

I think 1995 was a pivotal year for two reasons: it's the point where
the web really came into being as a graphical experience (it had been
text-only for a year or two before that), and it's the point where
there were enough ISPs in existence that the pricing became
competitive and you started seeing "$20/month for all you can eat"
rates.  Prior to that, prices were usually per hour.

It's also the time when you started to see URLs appearing in
advertisements.  I remember when it used to be uncommon to see a URL,
and it was always given in long form: "URL - http://www.company.com" .
That's a result of the burgeoning use of the web.  It all follows -
pretty pictures show up so people are excited; ISP memberships rise,
so pricing becomes competitive and more people sign up; more people
are on the web, so companies start to care and create their online
presence to reserve their space and preserve their domain names.

When the net was developed, the traffic was restricted to government
and educational use.  That's why anyone who was on the net in the 80s
either did it from college or from major research points like Los
Alamos or JPL.  In order for companies to get on the net, there had to
be an alternative to the "backbone" internet run by the National
Science Foundation (NSF).  Companies like BBN in Cambridge, MA (which
had helped to develop the backbone and later was the company that
decided email addresses should use the @ symbol) developed alternate
net traffic loops that weren't under the NSF's supervision.  These
regional networks had names like NEARnet (New England), SURAnet
(southern US), and BARRnet (Bay Area), as well as AlterNet (as in
alternate).  They would link up to each other and agree to pass
traffic.  My ISP had deals with all of these individual networks so
they would pass our traffic, and a few of them linked to the backbone
so users could contact people on that network, too.  Since the
alternate networks allowed commercial companies and ISPs to send
traffic, this is when you started to see spam show up.  When the net
was academic and gov't only, spam wasn't an issue.  In the mid-to-late
90s, the traffic on the alternate networks so outweighed the backbone
that the NSF gave up trying to regulate its traffic to academic and
gov't, and opened up to all traffic.  The regional networks all got
purchased and consolidated, and now run under company banners -
WorldComm's network, Genuity's network, AT&T's network, etc.  People
came to the net because it was cool, and where the people go,
advertisers follow - and here came the spam.

I lived through a lot as it happened - Compuserve, GEnie and AOL
linking to the internet (and doing it badly), the advent of IRC, the
change from FTP to Gopher to the web, the change in the web from text
to graphics, the absolute BOOM of everyone coming onto the net (I
actually used to answer phone calls from people who said "Is this the
internet?" referring to my ISP, and "Oh, I need a modem?"), and so on.

Even in 1998-99, when I was managing tech support for GTE's commercial
internet services (which used to be BBN and later became Genuity, but
I bailed before the bankruptcy), my staff used to get home users
calling us by mistake (we only supported corporations and ISPs out of
my location).  They made a list of "Top 10 Ways You Can Tell the
Caller is Dial-Up".  One of the items on the list was that they would
call us and say "I deleted the internet".  (They meant they'd deleted
the software to connect up.)

What a long, strange trip it's been.  But I wouldn't trade it for the
world.

						...eliz

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 10:49:28 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:50:58 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] GTs to Pam!
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> Today we found out that the tennis-ball sized mass in my lung is indeed
> cancer.  I'm undergoing some pretty major surgery on Tuesday, just how
> extensive it will be won't be known until they get in there, and can see
> what's needed. 
> Pam Dotson


Please do let us know how it goes, and we'll all be pulling for you!

							..eliz
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:18:42 -0600 (CST)
From: Robin Netherton 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 15th century ladies undergarments
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Five Rivers wrote:

>     So, we know ladies were wearing a corset or stay under the
> Burgundian gowns and houppelands of the early 15th century.

That's contrary to my understanding. Can I ask for your support (no pun
intended!) on that statement? To my knowledge, the support comes from a
fitted dress beneath.

> However, were ladies wearing a corset or stay under a cotehardie and
> sideless surcoat? Anyone know?

I have a whole lecture on this question, but in short: as near as anyone
can determine from the evidence, the answer seems to be a resounding "no."
I'm more certain of this than I am of most statements about this period!
Ample visual evidence (of half-open gowns, gowns off the wearer, etc.)
shows no sign of corseting or stays; documentary evidence gives no hint of
materials that might have been used for boning or understructure; and the
particular figure shape is achievable without corseting or stays (and very
likely not achievable with them). The fitted gown itself serves as a
proto-foundation garment, but a flexible one without boning, and its use
as a means of manipulating the female figure is probably the first step
leading to the development of true foundations in the later 15th and 16th
centuries.

A small quibble: The term "cotehardie" in period seems to be used
exclusively for overgarments (primarily male but possibly female). I think
you mean a fitted dress. Names for the fitted dress vary by
region/language, but "kirtle" and "cotte" or "cote" are suitable.

>     And do we have any documentation of pantloons being worn in the
> early 15th century by ladies, as a regular thing, not as an exception
> to the rule?

None that I know of, at least for Western Europe. All bets are off for
Spain and Italy. I know of two or three images that keep getting mentioned
(including one misericorde) but context suggests they are meant to show
women in men's clothing.

--Robin


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 11:07:27 2003
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I don't consider myself to be an old-timer on the Net as I'm a very much
a dilettante. I officially joined the Net in summer of '97 when I got my
first computer. H-Cost was about the first thing I ever connected to!

However, back in the Jurassic Period of computers, I was on a system at
the University of Illinois called PLATO (1980-85). It was a very
proto-Web sort of thing, but it did link up various sites and had instant
chat. It also had primitive (by modern standards) computer games which
could be played by multiple users at separate sites. It actually made me
very hard to impress when I first got on the Net as everything that
people tried to show me had an analog on PLATO so I'd already done
it......


Karen

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 11:51:18 2003
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From: "Christi Paschen" 
To: 
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:52:24 -0600
Organization: SoulStar Intuitive Services
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Subject: [h-cost] 2 Memberships to Costume-Con 21 for sale
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Hi all,
I have 2 memberships for sale $120 to Costume-Con 21 April 18-21, 2003
at the Doubletree Northshore Hotel in Skokie, IL. My other half and I
had some fast changes occur and now cannot go. If interested please
email me at soulstar@mcleodusa.net.
Thanks,
Christi Paschen
 
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 11:54:38 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] New list settings: please check/help
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Elizabeth, is it possible to set the list up so that the email address a
message is from is listed in the email?  It gets hard to reply privately
when you are using a unix mailer and realize you didn't grab the email
address off the "From:" line to copy and paste in.


On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 07:34 PM, Elizabeth Lear wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 12:36:52PM -0800, Agnes Gawne wrote:
>> Actually - I like the thought of posts coming directly back to the 
>> sender
>> and also to the group - is it perhaps something we could "opt-in" 
>> to... in
>> other words, if I like the direct response I can have it and if Nicole
>> doesn't like that she can choose not to get it?
>
> I think it's all or nothing.  The setting is for the whole list and
> strips any 'reply-to' other than the one the list inserts.
>
> 						...eliz
>
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 12:01:54 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] early 15th century ladies undergarments
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*blink, blink* Uh....we *do* know that? My experiences with wearing and
making 15th and 16th c. clothing have led me in quite the opposite
direction--that corsetry (corsets as separate garments) was a later
development, coming out of the stiffened bodices/pairs of
bodys/petticoat bodys worn in the 16th c. in some parts of Europe.
By "pantaloons," I'm assuming you mean panties in the "underwear" sense?
I know of depictions of women wearing pants in Andalusian Spain and
Muslim countries (where it's clearly outerwear), but not much, really,
for women in christian european countries.
--sue

Lorina from Five Rivers wrote:
> 
>     So, we know ladies were wearing a corset or stay under the Burgundian
> gowns and houppelands of the early 15th century. However, were ladies
> wearing a corset or stay under a cotehardie and sideless surcoat? Anyone
> know?
> 
>     And do we have any documentation of pantloons being worn in the early
> 15th century by ladies, as a regular thing, not as an exception to the rule?
>
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To: "Historical Costume" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] GTs to Pam!
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:09:37 -0500
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In Deed, Every time I see a tree, I shall think of thee,
Hoping you gather  their strength and resilience
Mariota,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Lear" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] GTs to Pam!


>
> > Today we found out that the tennis-ball sized mass in my lung is indeed
> > cancer.  I'm undergoing some pretty major surgery on Tuesday, just how
> > extensive it will be won't be known until they get in there, and can see
> > what's needed.
> > Pam Dotson
>
>
> Please do let us know how it goes, and we'll all be pulling for you!
>
> ..eliz
> _______________________________________________
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 12:08:04 2003
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From: Joyce 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10
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At 07:01 AM 2/28/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Message: 27
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:01:26 -0700
>From: Elizabeth Lear 
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 5
>
>
>I've cut the digest size by 1/4 - digest people should let me know if
>that's still too big.
actually, what would help the most would be if people could trim their 
posts. And remember, when you have your mail set to html, your message is 
repeated twice in the digest. (The previous sentence was not meant to pick 
on AOL users, who don't have any choice and _have_ to post in html.) Just a 
gentle reminder, I hate to lose info, because I'm hitting the page down 
button so fast!
--
Joyce

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<<>>

        I love that!  I will remember it while I am strolling around
impersonating a Queen.  Thanks

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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Dear Pam,  My thoughts and prayers will be with you in the hospital.  My
sister had lung cancer and after surgery has been cancer free for several
years.  Still gets a lot of frequent checkups, but so far so good.  So
you see, it isn't a death sentence.  I will think very positive thoughts
for you and you do the same.  We hope to be hearing from you soon.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "LOU J STALSWORTH" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 9:50 AM
Subject: Fwd: [Raphael Slepon has just sent you $7.79 with PayPal]




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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 12:42:00 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Fw: goblins
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goblins
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Birdsey, Maryellen R 
To: Kate Pinner (E-mail) 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 11:20 AM
Subject: goblins


Hi Kate, 

I wonder if you were able to find any more of those silver/black tunics for me to use in the Hobbit?  

Regards, 
Maryellen 
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 13:05:21 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:06:47 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] New list settings: please check/help
Message-ID: <20030228170647.GI26360@net.indra.com>
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On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 07:56:03AM -0800, Heather Meadows wrote:
> Elizabeth, is it possible to set the list up so that the email address a
> message is from is listed in the email?  It gets hard to reply privately
> when you are using a unix mailer and realize you didn't grab the email
> address off the "From:" line to copy and paste in.

The 'from' line should always be the poster - the list is set to not
strip the sender address and subsitute the list as the from.  However,
when you hit 'reply', it fills in the list address instead of the
sender address unless you have a more sophisticated mail program (for
example, when I hit reply, it asks me 'reply to ?' if I hit
'n', it replies to the message author instead).

The only way to keep all replies from going to the list by default
would be to direct all replies to the poster, which people here have
said they don't want - they prefer replies be directed back to the
list.  If the majority wants the change, I can make it.

						...eliz

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 13:30:41 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] the new Vintage Fashion magazine
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Hi, Folks; I wanted to update you, as promised, with additional information.  
Vintage Fashion is being published by Renaissance Magazine - the editor and 
editorial team are entirely different, as are advertising rates, but the 
address and contact for publisher/advertising information is the same:  
Renaissance is based in Connecticut at the following address:
1450 Barnum Avenue. Suite 207, Bridgeport, CT 06610 USA; telephone (800) 
232-2224; fax (800) 775-2729.  We will have our web site link up ASAP, and 
you'll be able to access it via www.renaissancemagazine.com, as well as 
directly.  We'll advise you as to our own URL and so on as the info. gets 
defined.  In the meantime, please note that Vintage Fashion is directed at 
vintage, costume and textile professionals and semi-pros rather than 
consumers and the general public; our target readership is designers, makers, 
dealers, collectors, curators, educators, shopkeepers, researchers, etc. and 
among our circulation will be costume designers and wardrobe 
masters/mistresses for film, theater, opera and ballet, museum staff, auction 
houses etc.
Best regards,
Julia
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Our prayers are with you, Pam. Best of luck.

Arlys


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 13:42:44 2003
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To: 
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Subject: [h-cost] White streak
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That white streak in the hair is sometimes a genetic marker for a certain
kind of deafness.  It goes with some typical facial features as well.

judygrow@rcn.com



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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:16:02 -0700
From: Elizabeth Lear 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 05:49:30PM -0800, kris wrote:
> Also, most of the lists I'm on have protected 
> email addresses. Unfortunately this list doesn't, and I hadn't realized 
> that. This means that I am un-subscribing this email address. C'est la vie.

This list is set so that the member addresses are visible to members
only, and they're not given in a clean format.  If people want their
addresses hidden, they can do so individually by using the 'hide'
function available on the membership admin pages of the web site.  Or,
if the majority wants, I can hide the list from everyone.

						...eliz

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 14:44:38 2003
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From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:44:56 -0700
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Subject: [h-cost] Hiding email addresses-vote?
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I'd rather be able to see the email address-my 1 cent.

Sg


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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:05:28 -0800
To: Historical Costume 
From: Gwyn Carnegie 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re:Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza?
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At 03:17 PM 2/28/2003 +1300, michaela wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Saragrace Knauf" 
>To: "'Historical Costume'" 
>Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 2:17 PM
>Subject: [h-cost] Mary of Burgundy or Bianca Maria Sforza?was: Germanic hats
>1500 to1530's (kinda long)
>
> > >http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/1500sbiancamaria.JPG
> > [Sg:] I have seen this image before, but can't remember where.  Does
> > anyone know the painter (Is it Cranach?)-I can't find it in my book if
> > it is.
>
>Not Cranach.. I have read in several publications that it was Bianca Maria..
>was one of them Max von Boehm's? I can't recall. I'd like to know

Doh!  good catch, right emperor, wrong wife.

I had it flipped in my mine with this family portrait, also by Bernhard 
Strigel.
http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page247.html

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:20:04 -0500
To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com
From: Lola Lee 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re:  the new Vintage Fashion magazine
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At 12:01 PM -0700 2/28/03, Azo478796@aol.com wrote:

>directly.  We'll advise you as to our own URL and so on as the info. gets
>defined.  In the meantime, please note that Vintage Fashion is directed at
>vintage, costume and textile professionals and semi-pros rather than
>consumers and the general public; our target readership is designers, makers,


That is too bad . . . there are many of us in the consumer and general public who are very interested in these topics and there is no publication available for us.  Not since that other magazine which unexpectedly ceased publication years ago.


-- 

Lola - mailto:lola@his.com
http://www.lolajl.net
http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html | ICQ: 14914550
I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis.

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To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com
From: Lola Lee 
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Subject: [h-cost] Re:  the new Vintage Fashion magazine
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At 12:01 PM -0700 2/28/03, Azo478796@aol.com wrote:

>directly.  We'll advise you as to our own URL and so on as the info. gets
>defined.  In the meantime, please note that Vintage Fashion is directed at
>vintage, costume and textile professionals and semi-pros rather than
>consumers and the general public; our target readership is designers, makers,


That is too bad . . . there are many of us in the consumer and general public who are very interested in these topics and there is no publication available for us.  Not since that other magazine which unexpectedly ceased publication years ago.


-- 

Lola - mailto:lola@his.com
http://www.lolajl.net
http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html | ICQ: 14914550
I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis.

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Subject: [h-cost] Re:early 15th century ladies undergarments 
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Sue and Robin,

    This is what I get working without enough coffee and speading my focus.
Sigh. I've been desperately trying to finish an embroidery sample to send to
a client in California, allowing my mind to wander over upcoming commissions
and projects. I was thinking of the 1500s, and of course that's 16th century
isn't it. Duh. And I had in my mind the early bodies of the 16th century.
One image leapt to another and wham, brain fog or fart if we're being
impolite. ;-)

    Both of you ladies have quite correctly interpreted the core of my
query, and I thank you.

    So, the kirtle/cote/your choice of term, is fitted in such a manner over
the bust so as to form support? This is done, I gather, through adjustments
in the gores of the gown. Correct? Or by cutting on the bias?Now, how might
a largish lady address the difficulty of support? If I'm going to go to the
trouble to handsew the garments and embroider I sure don't want all the
effort wasted on incorrect fit.

    And if the cote is fitted that tightly, then how does that address a
chemise underneath, or have I misread that in history? I'm afraid I know far
more from late 15th century to Edwardian than I do about this other time
period we love to portray. I have read (don't ask where, my brain is an
unorganized encylopaedia) there is some evidence the Norse (Dark Ages) gave
breast support through linen bindings. Perhaps that was carried through the
following centuries?

Regards
Lorina
Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
supplies
(519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org  email:
info@5rivers.org


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 15:50:24 2003
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	Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:51:34 PST
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:51:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Jacobson Dawn 
To: h-costume@indra.com
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Subject: [h-cost] Re: early 15th C. ladies' undergarments
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Lorina wrote (my questions/comments set off by
asterisks)--

<<   So, we know ladies were wearing a corset or stay
under the 
Burgundian
gowns and houppelands of the early 15th century.
However, were ladies
wearing a corset or stay under a cotehardie and
sideless surcoat? 
Anyone
know?>>


Uh, I hate to sound stupid (and I apologize if anyone
has already asked this question or answered it), but
we do? I haven't found any documentation for
undergarments beyond shifts and gowns, but I'm
certainly not an expert.

Gotta run!

Dawn





=====
Dawn Jacobson
Vallejo, CA, USA

Learn the rules well, so you can break them properly.
--Dalai Lama
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From: 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:33:27 -0500
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> 
> From: prairielark 
> Date: 2003/02/28 Fri AM 08:47:07 EST
> To: Historical Costume 
> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
> 
> 
> http://www.candicehern.com/collections/02/buckles.htm
> 
> Apparently, these buckles are right in line with the period in which we set the wedding!  We were undoubtedly confused, and yes, now that I think about it, buckles were much smaller earlier in the century.  We just were so surprised when they came and they were so huge.  These look very much like the ones worn by the Duke of Cumberland in the portrait on the website.  Thanks to all who helped.  We will try the solution Carol suggests, my love is good with leather and her suggestion seems as if it will work best.  Which now begs the question, perhaps the lachets on these shoes are not really the right size for last qtr 18c??
> 
> Just wondering,
> Phoebe


    The average reproduction late 18th century shoe is an attempt at recreating a military shoe, but there were in reality several differents shoes in the period, worn by different people, at different times for different occasions. Secondly fashion was NOT stagnant in the later half of the 18th century (I suspect it almost never has been).  I have read plenty of primary source documents that show that fashion was changing through the '70s at least as fast as it does today.  With that in mind, don't expect a shoe style to be perfectly accurate for 25 years.  I would argue this is even more so of the last quarter.  Just looks how much fashion changes from 1775 to 1800!  Very dramatic indeed.

Ron

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:50:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Robin Netherton 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:early 15th century ladies undergarments 
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Five Rivers wrote:

>     So, the kirtle/cote/your choice of term, is fitted in such a
> manner over the bust so as to form support?

This is a popular and enduring topic on this list, and elsewhere, and
regulars here will know that this is my specialty area ;-) To save the
trouble of repeating myself (and boring everyone who's already heard it),
I've collected my past posts on this topic and webbed them. Go to
 and look for the links on the Gothic
fitted dress. Read the collected posts, and if you like, look at the
workshop handout. The handout is meant to go along with a lecture and
suffers from lack of visuals, but it may give you some useful additional
nuggets.

What's on my site is not a how-to by any means; it won't tell you how to
make the dress if you've never done anything of the sort, and if you don't
know what you're aiming for. But I think that anyone who has studied the
images, has some understanding of medieval sewing practice, and reads
through these materials can take off from that and come up with something
that works and is reasonably well supported by the evidence.

> This is done, I gather, through adjustments in the gores of the gown.
> Correct?

I have not found any evidence that there are gores reaching above the
waist for this particular style. You may be thinking of the Greenland
gowns, which have been frequently misinterpreted as being fitted dresses,
but represent another style that is shaped but not tight (and use a
construction that may never have been used anywhere but Greenland). I need
to gather together my posts about this issue at some point soon, but for
now, you can find a summary of my lecture on this in a Usenet post I made
a while ago, at


> Or by cutting on the bias?

Don't cut the pieces on the bias or you'll get no support. My method,
though, does use careful introduction of off-grain seams to provide
flexibility and to push and pull the figure in certain places and
directions. My notes will tell you more.

> Now, how might a largish lady address the difficulty of support?

The method I use works quite well for larger women, as long as you line
it and use a strong enough fabric. Sue will testify to this.

> If I'm going to go to the trouble to handsew the garments and
> embroider I sure don't want all the effort wasted on incorrect fit.

Understood. I strongly recommend you do a half-length mockup first to get
your fit in the ballpark. Then do your lining, and fit that perfectly,
before cutting your outer fabric. (Or do your lining as your mockup and
hand-stitch it, or machine-stitch during the rather tedious fitting
process and then replace the stitching by hand.)

>     And if the cote is fitted that tightly, then how does that address
> a chemise underneath, or have I misread that in history? 

You definitely need a chemise underneath. This improves comfort and wear
and does not interfere with the fit. It should not be a tremendously loose
chemise, and should not have a drawstring neck. Again, see my notes.

> I'm afraid I know far more from late 15th century to Edwardian than I
> do about this other time period we love to portray. I have read (don't
> ask where, my brain is an unorganized encylopaedia) there is some
> evidence the Norse (Dark Ages) gave breast support through linen
> bindings. Perhaps that was carried through the following centuries?

I've seen one documentary citation referring to breast bindings, but it's
12th century -- much earlier than this period, and at a time of very
different construction methods. There are enough visual images of women in
14th century fitted dresses open for nursing (or other reasons) that show
no sign of bindings, and I've had enough success without them, for me to
operate under the assumption that they were not routinely used nor needed
with a fitted dress.

--Robin

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 16:42:44 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:44:33 +0100
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Dear Pam.
Oh yes, i definately will send you good wibes and lots of currage.
This weekend i hope to finish the jacket, and i surely shall send pics, if
it can help you.
I wish you all the best for the surgery.
A lot of hugs for you!!!

Bjarne

Bjarne
Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From: 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:57:45 -0500
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> 
> From: N Kipar 
> Date: 2003/02/28 Fri AM 03:14:24 EST
> To: Historical Costume 
> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
> 
> 
> That's right, if you want to know more, I did lots of research on pretty much
> exactly these years, 1700-1710.
> 
> >    I didn't do the research on this however, and I know my wig is wrong (Even
> > if Edes and Ravenscroft has been in business since 1699!).
> 
> Have one made! That's the only one you can really get a correct one, if you
> know of a cheaper way I am MOST interested to know :-)
> 
> Nicole

    It was made for me, by Edes and Ravenscroft Robemakers since 1699.  Problem is the research was wrong for whatever reason.  I would have raised a bigger fuss from the start, but I was given bad information.  I had been told they were ordering a full bottom judicial wig.  The Judicial style is not unlike the wigs of the period so I was fine with it.  Problem is that when I actually was issued the thing it was NOT a judicial wig, but a barrister's wig.  As most of you probably know these are little vistagal copies of the late 18th century wigs.

    When I asked about it I was told first that a "legal historian" said it was correct.  As if knowing legal history means you know historic legal costume as well.  When I checked with her boss I was told that the records of Eves and Ravenscroft showed these were the wigs they sold then.  

    However, in our library we happen to have the Eves and Ravenscroft book on State Gowns which is what they are really known for.  They claim the wig in question dates to 1837 and our in fact very proud of that fact.  I was lied too!  I suspect that the real problem is that by that time the money was spent.  At lot of effort and research and time went into our costumes for this program and then they went and bought the wrong wigs.  And these wigs are very expensive.

    I started to do a little research myself self and what I found agrees with the wigs maker.  There were no such creatures as barrister wigs in 1706.  At the time barrister's wore regular wigs because it was the fashion to wear wigs and not because they were part of legal costume.  Than wig wearing went out of fashion, and complaint was made that the courts were losing their diginity.  In 1837 parliment passed the act which created the silly horsehair cap that I am required to wear, and for which I have received some flack when I have failed to wear it!


    The wigmakes at work or against the whole thing as well and refuse to do any of the maintanance on the darned thing. They are annoyed they they were not asked to make them nor even to provide research and it is after all their job to make 18th century wigs (though it is true that their area of expertise is the later half of the period).


    

I remain,
a misdressed sometimes legal historian
Ron Carnegie


R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 17:29:36 2003
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Subject: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
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OK, it's obscure question time!

When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)

Personally I use a piece of soft wood, but after a while the wood starts
to splinter, can dull the pinking tool, etc.

A wax tablet doesn't work very well--too soft, and the wax can interfere
with the pinking tool's edge after a while.

So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
remotely fit the bill?

Thanks,

Drea


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 17:37:22 2003
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From: "Talia" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:39:37 -0600
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How about a sheet of lead-free pewter?

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Drea Leed
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 3:31 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?


OK, it's obscure question time!

When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)

Personally I use a piece of soft wood, but after a while the wood starts
to splinter, can dull the pinking tool, etc.

A wax tablet doesn't work very well--too soft, and the wax can interfere
with the pinking tool's edge after a while.

So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
remotely fit the bill?

Thanks,

Drea


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 17:38:35 2003
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From: "Talia" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:40:54 -0600
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Er...sorry, forgot to add a link. Pewter sheet can be found here:

http://www.atlasmetal.com/atpw.htm

Have fun!

Talia


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 18:08:41 2003
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:31:51 -0500
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Leather workers use a very dense rubber pad when they use the individual
punches. You might try looking on Tandy or Leather Crafter's website. I
hear Tandy is licensing franchises again, so maybe there is a store near
you.

Or, you might try a piece of hardwood such as oak. It won't split as
quickly as pine or poplar.

Pax,

Linda


-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Drea Leed
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 4:31 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?

OK, it's obscure question time!

When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)

Personally I use a piece of soft wood, but after a while the wood starts
to splinter, can dull the pinking tool, etc.

A wax tablet doesn't work very well--too soft, and the wax can interfere
with the pinking tool's edge after a while.

So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
remotely fit the bill?

Thanks,

Drea




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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 18:11:45 2003
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From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" 
To: 
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:15:17 +0100
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Subject: [h-cost] picture sources
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Hi!
I just want to tell a little about this topic. When you want to find out
fashions in periods, you can find much more if you look in other places and
not only fashion history books.
For instance i baught some books today about the history of Copenhagen, and
they are a feast for sources. There are many old prints from streets and
squares, and these are crowded with people walking the streets.
One thing i had a sence for was a dress worn over large panier and was not a
sack dress, but a simple bodice and skirt fashion. It is never mentioned in
any fashion books.
But today i have proof that it excisted. There is a lady seen from the back
and there are no sack pleats.
Is it not strange, but i somehow new it excisted, and then bingo - there it
was. It can not be a court dress, because it is a lady walking in the
street!
I have some portraits where i think it is the same case, no sack, but it
cant proof it, will never be able to proof it, because it is a portrait seen
from the front :-)
Well, what i wanted to say, try to look other places than fashion books, you
will get surprised!

Bjarne


Leif og Bjarne Drews
www.my-drewscostumes.dk

http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 18:11:58 2003
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From: "Linda Rice" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:36:11 -0500
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Drea, I should have added to my last post that a nice THICK piece of
leather would probably work well too. What the leatherworkers would toss
out might be fine for this, and is cheap enough to replace frequently.
Maybe several pieces stacked and glued together in case you are worried
about punch-through.

Linda




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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 18:35:57 2003
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From: "Lloyd Mitchell" 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
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Drea, from Kathleen.  Might one use one of the acrylic cutting boards or the
cutting sheets for the rotary cutters?  (Not at all period, of course, but
they seem to do the trick for modern cutting projects.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drea Leed" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 4:30 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?


> OK, it's obscure question time!
>
> When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
> which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
> unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)
>
> Personally I use a piece of soft wood, but after a while the wood starts
> to splinter, can dull the pinking tool, etc.
>
> A wax tablet doesn't work very well--too soft, and the wax can interfere
> with the pinking tool's edge after a while.
>
> So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
> something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
> pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
> remotely fit the bill?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drea
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 18:59:21 2003
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From: mabse@attbi.com
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:00:25 +0000
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You are required to wear a silly horsehair cap? what is that and why do you have 
to wear it?  maryann
> 
> > 
> > From: N Kipar 
> > Date: 2003/02/28 Fri AM 03:14:24 EST
> > To: Historical Costume 
> > Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
> > 
> > 
> > That's right, if you want to know more, I did lots of research on pretty much
> > exactly these years, 1700-1710.
> > 
> > >    I didn't do the research on this however, and I know my wig is wrong 
> (Even
> > > if Edes and Ravenscroft has been in business since 1699!).
> > 
> > Have one made! That's the only one you can really get a correct one, if you
> > know of a cheaper way I am MOST interested to know :-)
> > 
> > Nicole
> 
>     It was made for me, by Edes and Ravenscroft Robemakers since 1699.  Problem 
> is the research was wrong for whatever reason.  I would have raised a bigger 
> fuss from the start, but I was given bad information.  I had been told they were 
> ordering a full bottom judicial wig.  The Judicial style is not unlike the wigs 
> of the period so I was fine with it.  Problem is that when I actually was issued > the thing it was NOT a judicial wig, but a barrister's wig.  As most of you 
> probably know these are little vistagal copies of the late 18th century wigs.
> 
>     When I asked about it I was told first that a "legal historian" said it was 
> correct.  As if knowing legal history means you know historic legal costume as 
> well.  When I checked with her boss I was told that the records of Eves and 
> Ravenscroft showed these were the wigs they sold then.  
> 
>     However, in our library we happen to have the Eves and Ravenscroft book on 
> State Gowns which is what they are really known for.  They claim the wig in 
> question dates to 1837 and our in fact very proud of that fact.  I was lied too!  
> I suspect that the real problem is that by that time the money was spent.  At 
> lot of effort and research and time went into our costumes for this program and 
> then they went and bought the wrong wigs.  And these wigs are very expensive.
> 
>     I started to do a little research myself self and what I found agrees with > the wigs maker.  There were no such creatures as barrister wigs in 1706.  At the 
> time barrister's wore regular wigs because it was the fashion to wear wigs and 
> not because they were part of legal costume.  Than wig wearing went out of 
> fashion, and complaint was made that the courts were losing their diginity.  In 
> 1837 parliment passed the act which created the silly horsehair cap that I am 
> required to wear, and for which I have received some flack when I have failed to 
> wear it!
> 
> 
>     The wigmakes at work or against the whole thing as well and refuse to do any 
> of the maintanance on the darned thing. They are annoyed they they were not 
> asked to make them nor even to provide research and it is after all their job to 
> make 18th century wigs (though it is true that their area of expertise is the 
> later half of the period).
> 
> 
>     
> 
> I remain,
> a misdressed sometimes legal historian
> Ron Carnegie
> 
> 
> R.Carnegie@verizon.net
> "Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
>              R. Bach
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 19:55:21 2003
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ 
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3210077236&category=4161

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 20:16:43 2003
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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So uh...what's the impression when an eighteen year old female is strolling 
around portraying/impersonating a Queen?  
Obligatory costume content: Forty-four days until the school play, and only 
40 costumes to go....

Christine


In a message dated 2/28/03 11:12:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
catpurson@juno.com writes:

> 
> << their 
> wealth and taste, not to adorn youth.>>>
> 
>     I love that!  I will remember it while I am strolling around
> impersonating a Queen.  Thanks
> 

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From: "Lady Mariota" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <4E6E5320-4B78-11D7-92F8-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] an interesting auction...
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I can't get the link to work.
I've tried cutting and pasting the two lines together
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather Meadows" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 6:56 PM
Subject: [h-cost] an interesting auction...


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ 
> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3210077236&category=4161
> 
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
_______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 20:34:59 2003
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From: "chiara" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <78.3979a452.2b915640@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try
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Time to change the subject if you are going to talk about something totally
different guys

(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸¸.·'´)¸.· '´)¸.·'´)
·.·*¨`·¤ Chiara  ¤·´¨*·.·»
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´`'·.¸)`'· .¸)`'·.¸)

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] new magazine - another try


> So uh...what's the impression when an eighteen year old female is
strolling
> around portraying/impersonating a Queen?
> Obligatory costume content: Forty-four days until the school play, and
only
> 40 costumes to go....
>
> Christine
>
>
> In a message dated 2/28/03 11:12:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> catpurson@juno.com writes:
>
> >
> > << > their
> > wealth and taste, not to adorn youth.>>>
> >
> >     I love that!  I will remember it while I am strolling around
> > impersonating a Queen.  Thanks
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

_______________________________________________
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 20:44:52 2003
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To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] an interesting auction...
References: <4E6E5320-4B78-11D7-92F8-00039369A97A@wonderland.com>
	
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To Lady Mariota-

I selected the item number and did a search with that.  Here's what came up:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3210077236

Hope this link stays together on its journey through the ether!!!

Theresa Eacker

Lady Mariota wrote:

> I can't get the link to work.
> I've tried cutting and pasting the two lines together
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Heather Meadows" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 6:56 PM
> Subject: [h-cost] an interesting auction...
> 
> 
> 
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ 
>>eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3210077236&category=4161
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>h-costume mailing list
>>h-costume@mail.indra.com
>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> 
> 


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 20:52:45 2003
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From: "Betsy Marshall" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] an interesting auction...
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:55:21 -0600
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I thought the ebay protocols dis-allowed the selling of services..?

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Heather Meadows
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 5:57 PM
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] an interesting auction...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ 
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3210077236&category=4161

_______________________________________________
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h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 21:04:54 2003
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
To: Historical Costume 
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 I think it is perfectly fine the way it is. No wish for change-management from
me here.

Nicole

> This list is set so that the member addresses are visible to members
> only, and they're not given in a clean format.  If people want their
> addresses hidden, they can do so individually by using the 'hide'
> function available on the membership admin pages of the web site.  Or,
> if the majority wants, I can hide the list from everyone.
> 
> 						...eliz


=====
"Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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	Sat, 01 Mar 2003 01:12:54 GMT
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 01:12:54 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the new Vintage Fashion magazine
To: Historical Costume 
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 --- JAzo478796@aol.com wrote: > 

> defined.  In the meantime, please note that Vintage Fashion is directed at 
> vintage, costume and textile professionals and semi-pros rather than 
> consumers and the general public; our target readership is designers, makers,

> dealers, collectors, curators, educators, shopkeepers, researchers, etc. and 
> among our circulation will be costume designers and wardrobe 
> masters/mistresses for film, theater, opera and ballet, museum staff, auction

Well, cross me off the list then. Personally I am tired of seeing so-called
'professionals' being catered for but not the seriously interested person as
well who has a job that actually pays and anything costume as a
more-than-hobby.

That's my rather strong opinion, but then I always say _exactly_ what I think.

I think it is a shame, there are so many people who are not 'professionals'. 

Still, I wish you very good luck with the magazine, I guess it is better to
have one for 'professionals' than not having one at all! (then again I wouldn't
bother to pay for a magazine all the way from America anyway ;-))) 

Nicole

=====
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Nicole Kipar M.A.
URL: http://www.kipar.org/
Email: nicole@kipar.org

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 21:16:55 2003
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	Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:18:28 PST
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:18:28 -0800 (PST)
From: KATHRYN WOLTERS 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] in the old days
To: Historical Costume 
In-Reply-To: <20030228.111754.-131997.2.catpurson@juno.com>
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And mine as well, Pam---2 family members and 1 friend who are still happy healthy cancer survivors---and I know there are MANY others out there, too.
blessings and good health to you!
Albra
 catpurson@juno.com wrote:Dear Pam, My thoughts and prayers will be with you in the hospital. My
sister had lung cancer and after surgery has been cancer free for several
years. Still gets a lot of frequent checkups, but so far so good. So
you see, it isn't a death sentence. I will think very positive thoughts
for you and you do the same. We hope to be hearing from you soon.

Lalah
Never give up, Never surrender
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 21:25:52 2003
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From: Catherine Olanich Raymond 
To: h-costume@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:early 15th century ladies undergarments
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:08:09 -0500
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On Friday 28 February 2003 02:24 pm, Five Rivers wrote:

[text cut here]
> I have read (don't ask where, my brain is
> an unorganized encylopaedia) there is some evidence the Norse (Dark Ages)
> gave breast support through linen bindings. Perhaps that was carried
> through the following centuries?

I understand the "brain is an unorganized encyclopedia" phenomenon too well.  
But if you ever do remember, though, where you learned that the Norse women 
used linen bindings as breast supports, would you please drop me a line?  I 
am interested in that period and I've never read anything of the kind. 
Thanks.

However, it would not surprise me unduly to find it documented.  The Romans 
used such a method, and the northern-European barbarians (and ultimately the 
Vikings) may have picked it up from them. 

-- 
Cathy Raymond 

"If you can't convince them, confuse them."  Harry S. Truman

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 22:12:30 2003
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From: "Margo Glenn-Lewis" 
To: "'Historical Costume'" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] an interesting auction...
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:11:07 -0800
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go to ebay and search on the item number 3210077236.

"Don't forget your bucket."
Ice Machine in the Desert - Brave Combo


> -----Original Message-----
> From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com 
> [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On
> Behalf Of Lady Mariota
> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 4:26 PM
> To: Historical Costume
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] an interesting auction...
> 
> 
> I can't get the link to work.
> I've tried cutting and pasting the two lines together
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Heather Meadows" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 6:56 PM
> Subject: [h-cost] an interesting auction...
> 
> 
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ 
> > eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3210077236&category=4161
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > h-costume mailing list
> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> > 
> _______________________________________________
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 22:23:31 2003
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030301011254.33849.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the new Vintage Fashion magazine
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:35:03 -0800
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A "seriously interested person" would probably appreciate reading the same
sorts of articles as a "professional".  Why not just have a read and enjoy!

Lisa


----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kipar" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the new Vintage Fashion magazine


> --- JAzo478796@aol.com wrote: >
>
> > defined.  In the meantime, please note that Vintage Fashion is directed
at
> > vintage, costume and textile professionals and semi-pros rather than
> > consumers and the general public; our target readership is designers,
makers,
>
> > dealers, collectors, curators, educators, shopkeepers, researchers, etc.
and
> > among our circulation will be costume designers and wardrobe
> > masters/mistresses for film, theater, opera and ballet, museum staff,
auction
>
> Well, cross me off the list then. Personally I am tired of seeing
so-called
> 'professionals' being catered for but not the seriously interested person
as
> well who has a job that actually pays and anything costume as a
> more-than-hobby.
>
> That's my rather strong opinion, but then I always say _exactly_ what I
think.
>
> I think it is a shame, there are so many people who are not
'professionals'.
>
> Still, I wish you very good luck with the magazine, I guess it is better
to
> have one for 'professionals' than not having one at all! (then again I
wouldn't
> bother to pay for a magazine all the way from America anyway ;-)))
>
> Nicole
>
> =====
> "Make Tea Not War" (Placard seen on the London Peace-march Feb. 2003)
> Nicole Kipar M.A.
> URL: http://www.kipar.org/
> Email: nicole@kipar.org
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 23:17:52 2003
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From: Osmondia@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:18:36 EST
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hiding email addresses-vote?
To: h-costume@indra.com
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I agree I would like to see the addresses.  If someone feels they need to 
hide it they should clear it with the list owner and let the owner know why.

Osmondia
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 23:32:51 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:37:44 -0800
To: Historical Costume 
From: Heather Rose Jones 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
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At 4:30 PM -0500 2/28/03, Drea Leed wrote:
>OK, it's obscure question time!
>
>When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
>which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
>unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)
>
>Personally I use a piece of soft wood, but after a while the wood starts
>to splinter, can dull the pinking tool, etc.
>
>A wax tablet doesn't work very well--too soft, and the wax can interfere
>with the pinking tool's edge after a while.
>
>So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
>something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
>pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
>remotely fit the bill?

What about a plastic kitchen cutting board?  Or an artist's cutting 
mat (for use with x-acto type blades)?

Heather
-- 
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 23:40:41 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:42:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Drea Leed 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
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Thanks to everyone for the suggestions--the rubber pad and acrylic cutting
board would be practical and handy, though the latter might create a bit
of an issue down the road..."hon, what are all these gauges doing in the
cutting board?" As I'm attempting to keep the materials as period as
possible, I'm going with the sole leather.  Great ideas.

Though if anyone does know of any sort of "artificial lead", or
non-poisonous lead, or a substance with weight, texture, look and
malleability like lead...if such a thing exists, please let me know. :)

Drea


On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Heather Rose Jones wrote:

> At 4:30 PM -0500 2/28/03, Drea Leed wrote:
> >OK, it's obscure question time!
> >
> >When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
> >which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
> >unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)
> >
> >Personally I use a piece of soft wood, but after a while the wood starts
> >to splinter, can dull the pinking tool, etc.
> >
> >A wax tablet doesn't work very well--too soft, and the wax can interfere
> >with the pinking tool's edge after a while.
> >
> >So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
> >something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
> >pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
> >remotely fit the bill?
>
> What about a plastic kitchen cutting board?  Or an artist's cutting
> mat (for use with x-acto type blades)?
>
> Heather
> --
> *****
> Heather Rose Jones
> hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
> *****
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 23:48:01 2003
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From: 
To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] wig(was 18c shoe buckles)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:49:36 -0500
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> 
> From: mabse@attbi.com
> Date: 2003/02/28 Fri PM 06:00:25 EST
> To: Historical Costume 
> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] 18c shoe buckles
> 
> You are required to wear a silly horsehair cap? what is that and why do you have 
> to wear it?  maryann

I was referring to the little barrister's wig. They are made of horsehair and do not cover much of your headCheers, Ron 


R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Fri Feb 28 23:52:32 2003
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From: "Talia" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:54:22 -0600
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Did you take a look at the link for pewter sheet I posted? It's the closest
thing you'll get to lead without the poisonous aspect, and it looks very
close to lead...

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Drea Leed
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 9:42 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?


Thanks to everyone for the suggestions--the rubber pad and acrylic cutting
board would be practical and handy, though the latter might create a bit
of an issue down the road..."hon, what are all these gauges doing in the
cutting board?" As I'm attempting to keep the materials as period as
possible, I'm going with the sole leather.  Great ideas.

Though if anyone does know of any sort of "artificial lead", or
non-poisonous lead, or a substance with weight, texture, look and
malleability like lead...if such a thing exists, please let me know. :)

Drea


On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Heather Rose Jones wrote:

> At 4:30 PM -0500 2/28/03, Drea Leed wrote:
> >OK, it's obscure question time!
> >
> >When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
> >which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
> >unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)
> >
> >Personally I use a piece of soft wood, but after a while the wood starts
> >to splinter, can dull the pinking tool, etc.
> >
> >A wax tablet doesn't work very well--too soft, and the wax can interfere
> >with the pinking tool's edge after a while.
> >
> >So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
> >something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
> >pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
> >remotely fit the bill?
>
> What about a plastic kitchen cutting board?  Or an artist's cutting
> mat (for use with x-acto type blades)?
>
> Heather
> --
> *****
> Heather Rose Jones
> hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu
> *****
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
>

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Mar  1 00:00:20 2003
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From: "Lisa Sinervo" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
References: <20030228162606.Q67116-100000@shell.siscom.net>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:06:13 -0800
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what's in lead free pewter?  I guess that is still pretty hard.  leather
sounds good to me, but it would need replacing often.  How about a treated
leather?  Or wax treated wood?

LS


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drea Leed" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:30 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?


> OK, it's obscure question time!
>
> When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
> which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
> unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)
>
> Personally I use a piece of soft wood, but after a while the wood starts
> to splinter, can dull the pinking tool, etc.
>
> A wax tablet doesn't work very well--too soft, and the wax can interfere
> with the pinking tool's edge after a while.
>
> So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
> something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
> pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
> remotely fit the bill?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drea
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Mar  1 00:04:55 2003
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NICOLE KIPAR:
(Sorry about the all-caps, but I wanted to get your attention!)  I think I 
didn't express it well.  When I wrote that our new magazine is directed at 
professionals and semi-professionals, I certainly didn't mean that you've got 
to be "professional" to "qualify" as a reader.  Heavens, No!  I meant that 
the 
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
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> 
> From: Drea Leed 
> Date: 2003/02/28 Fri PM 04:30:50 EST
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
> 
> OK, it's obscure question time!
> 
> When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
> which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
> unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)
> 
   I have always understood this to me more a block of lead than a sheet.  That is what I use with my buttonhole chisels and some of the tools we used to use when I was silversmithing.  The reason for the lead is that it will prevent the blade form dulling with other period methods.  The reason for a block is that your tools are going to work through a sheet of lead pretty quick.  Somebody suggested "lead free" pewter.  My understanding is that almost all modern pewter (if not all) is lead free.  Some is pewter free! I would NOT use pewter as a sheet wont do you much good unless it is very thick, and then it will be to hard and will dull the blade.  (lead is softer than the steel).

Ron

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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From: "Talia" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:08:54 -0600
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Depending on the brand you buy, lead-free pewter will contain copper, tin,
bismuth, and/or antimony in various percentages. It's pretty darn soft
stuff. :)

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On
Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 10:06 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?


what's in lead free pewter?  I guess that is still pretty hard.  leather
sounds good to me, but it would need replacing often.  How about a treated
leather?  Or wax treated wood?

LS


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drea Leed" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:30 PM
Subject: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?


> OK, it's obscure question time!
>
> When pinking fabric (16th c.), a lead sheet was be used as a base upon
> which to do the pinking. (I don't have the exact reference for this,
> unfortunately...told by a research buddy.)
>
> Personally I use a piece of soft wood, but after a while the wood starts
> to splinter, can dull the pinking tool, etc.
>
> A wax tablet doesn't work very well--too soft, and the wax can interfere
> with the pinking tool's edge after a while.
>
> So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
> something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
> pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
> remotely fit the bill?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drea
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume


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To: Historical Costume 
Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:14:21 -0500
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> 
> From: "Talia" 
> Date: 2003/02/28 Fri PM 11:08:54 EST
> To: "Historical Costume" 
> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
> 
> Depending on the brand you buy, lead-free pewter will contain copper, tin,
> bismuth, and/or antimony in various percentages. It's pretty darn soft
> stuff. :)
> 
> Talia
h-costume
> 

   Must of what I have seen is a lot harder than lead which you can scratch with your fingernail (better wash your hands after).  In fact it tends to be harder than real pewter.

Cheers,
Ron

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Mar  1 00:17:29 2003
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NICOLE KIPAR and LOLA:
(Sorry about the all-caps, but I wanted to get your attention!)  I think I 
didn't express it well.  When I wrote that our new magazine is directed at 
professionals and semi-professionals, I certainly didn't mean that you've got 
to be "professional" to "qualify" as a reader.  Heavens, No!  I meant that 
there's going to be a focus on authenticity, on practical considerations like 
finding a way to make an authentic costume with authentic fabric at a 
reasonable cost, and that the individuals we interview are going to be 
seriously dedicated to the field - much like so many of you here on the 
h-cost list.  In other words, this isn't going to be a consumer-oriented 
magazine like Family Circle or Good Housekeeping, and when we refer to 
costume, we *don't* mean Halloween-type ghost and Power Ranger costumes :)  

In fact, the individuals on the h-cost list strike me as being EXTREMELY 
committed and dedicated to important details and authenticity.  I'd even go 
so far as to say that many of you amaze me in terms of the extent of your 
historical knowledge as well as apparel construction knowledge, and the depth 
of your research.  We WILL be interviewing business owners (vintage clothing 
and historical costume) and museum curators, and there will definitely be 
articles about running a business or maintaining the costume collection at 
museums and making ends meet (for example, I was just interviewing someone 
who told me that major movie stars and rock stars are driving up the cost of 
important vintage apparel at auction for reasons of status and even greed, 
making it all the more difficult to build a museum collection, as no curator 
can outbid multi-millionaire movie stars).  
However, I by NO means meant to suggest that people who aren't professionals 
shouldn't be reading it or aren't extremely welcome and valued.  What we hope 
for is a readership of people who are deeply interested in the fields of 
vintage and historic apparel, and who care about quality, detail and 
authenticity - whether it's your profession or your avid hobby!
-Julia
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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Mar  1 00:17:32 2003
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From: "Talia" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:20:03 -0600
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Er...pewter is way softer than steel too.

Brinell hardness of pure lead is 6.
Brinell hardness of tin is 15.
Brinell hardness of hardened steel (like a cutting blade) is 558.

Since lead-free pewter is mostly tin...well, it's pretty darn soft.
Personally, if you're looking for a metallic alternative to lead, it's not
bad.

Talia

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On
Behalf Of r.carnegie@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 10:09 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?



I would NOT use pewter as a sheet wont do you much good unless it is very
thick, and then it will be to hard and will dull the blade.  (lead is softer
than the steel).

Ron

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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From: "Talia" 
To: "Historical Costume" 
Subject: RE: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:22:42 -0600
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There's no debate over whether or not it's harder than lead. Of course it
is...however, she's looking for something that is very soft, that is not
poisonous like lead happens to be. The closest thing she's going to get is
going to be some modern "pewter"-like material, since she specifically said
she'd rather find a metal than use a piece of leather...

T.

-----Original Message-----
From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On
Behalf Of r.carnegie@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 10:14 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?



>
> From: "Talia" 
> Date: 2003/02/28 Fri PM 11:08:54 EST
> To: "Historical Costume" 
> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
>
> Depending on the brand you buy, lead-free pewter will contain copper, tin,
> bismuth, and/or antimony in various percentages. It's pretty darn soft
> stuff. :)
>
> Talia
h-costume
>

   Must of what I have seen is a lot harder than lead which you can scratch
with your fingernail (better wash your hands after).  In fact it tends to be
harder than real pewter.

Cheers,
Ron

R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
From: "Gwyndolynn Carnegie" 
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> Though if anyone does know of any sort of "artificial lead", or
> non-poisonous lead, or a substance with weight, texture, look and
> malleability like lead...if such a thing exists, please let me know. :)
> 
> Drea

The problem with pewter, as well as with some of the other soft metals, is 
that they'll work harden. A friend (another sculptor) recommended Babbitt 
metal. http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/B/Babbtmet.asp  

We suspect that is the reason they chose lead was because it can be 
resurfaced over and other without being work hardened and at really low 
temperatures. Makes maintenance of the surface a snap, although highly 
toxic.

Babbitt metal does come in a tin alloy version. If you get the chance, ask 
your colleague if he knows whether the lead sheets were free standing or 
contained in another metal vestibule or case with a high melt rate. Very 
interesting >; )

> On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
> > At 4:30 PM -0500 2/28/03, Drea Leed wrote:
> > >OK, it's obscure question time!
> > >So: I'm looking for a "lead substitute" to experiment with. :) Ideally
> > >something with the softness, look and feel of lead, but without those
> > >pesky poisonous qualities.  Anyone here heard of anything that would
> > >remotely fit the bill?

Gwyn Carnegie
University of California, Davis
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> 
> From: "Gwyndolynn Carnegie" 
> Date: 2003/03/01 Sat AM 12:07:26 EST
> To: h-costume@indra.com
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Substitute for lead?
> 
> The problem with pewter, as well as with some of the other soft metals, is 
> that they'll work harden. A friend (another sculptor) recommended Babbitt 
> metal. http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/B/Babbtmet.asp  
> 
> We suspect that is the reason they chose lead was because it can be 
> resurfaced over and other without being work hardened and at really low 
> temperatures. Makes maintenance of the surface a snap, although highly 
> toxic.

    This is a very good point Gwynn.  I suspect your'e correct.  In fact when I was working silver we used the lead to back a steel stamp that put the rat tail in the spoons of the same name.  This is a long tail like shape under the bowl that gives the spoon more strength.  The amount of  abuse that lead receives would harden silver, though I have not worked pewter, I don't know how much it can stand before anealling, or even if it is anealled as easily and the same way as silver.  

    As far as your other question When I was first taught to use lead it was by Mark Hutter who many of you on this list know. He is a very well researched and talented 18th century tailor, practicing entirely period techniques to the extremes of not using a measured tape.  

    He uses a simple lead ingot to back both pinking chisels and button.  In silversmithing, ours was a little more advanced.  It was still basically an ingot, but it had a teaspoon shaped indentation.  I really miss silversmithing, all of this is making me nostalgic!

Cheers,
Ron (the other Carnegie)


R.Carnegie@verizon.net
"Argue for your limitations, and they are yours."
             R. Bach

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    Thank you, Robin, for your considerable assistance. I shall go to your
website this weekend and have a good browse.

    Oh, and a note to Cathy regarding that linen breast binding: come to
think of it perhaps I read a reference to that on the Norsefolk yahoo group.
Scratches head. That might be a good place to begin your queries. There are
some stunningly researched people on that list.

Regards
Lorina
Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
supplies
(519) 799-5577, fax (519) 799-5418 http://www.5rivers.org  email:
info@5rivers.org


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From h-costume-bounces@indra.com  Sat Mar  1 02:24:43 2003
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Some things to try for avoiding spam (for the average person, not those who 
get hundreds in a day:  Check into whether your ISP offers an anti-spam 
service.  Our ISP, radiks.net, is a subsidiary of Earthlink (was a local 
that was absorbed about a year or so ago).  Earthlink has what it calls the 
"Spaminator".  It's free, but you have to go out to Earthlink support and 
activate it.  I still get spam, but this filters almost all the 
objectionable stuff.  I end up deleting about 10 pieces of spam a day, and 
most of it is stuff that originates from lists passed along from someone we 
bought something from.  Even if you tell them not to, their "affiliates" 
are sometimes exempt from that.

Another way to stop some spam is to go to www.the-dma.org and follow the 
directions to have your e-mail address removed from mailers' lists.  This 
works the same way as the the mail preference and phone preference services 
run by the DMA (Direct Marketing Assn).  This won't stop the egregious 
spammers, but will stop most of the credit offers and stuff like 
that.  Your address will be on the list for 2 years, then you have the 
option to renew or not.  This is also free.

Costume content:  We're frantically sewing for Costume Con as 
well.  Pierre's mostly finished his fashion show robe, and has started on 
his mobster outfit for the Friday night social.  I'm still trying to get 
the bodice fitted for my fashion show dress (the vampire Ascot).  Who knows 
how long it will take to build, as it's all in double velvet (mostly 
black), with silk charmeuse linings and silk chiffon ruffles.  I have a 
mobster outfit to make as well, hopefully it will get done.  The fabric for 
that is wonderful - 100% wool charcoal grey pinstripe (tiny chalk-white 
pinstripes about 1 inch apart).  It is actual menswear suiting fabric (L.A. 
fabric district, so getting 25 yards of it didn't break the budget ).

Sandy

"Those Who Fail To Learn History
Are Doomed To Repeat It;
Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly--
Why They Are Simply Doomed."

Achemdro'hm
"The Illusion of Historical Fact"
-- C.Y. 4971

Andromeda


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Someone =
just sent=20
  this to the German Ren Costume group.  Take a close look at the big =
picture=20
  (you have to go to the bottom of the page to click on=20
  it)

  
They almost =
look like=20
  they are knit!  If any =
of you=20
  speak Swedish, could you take a whack at translating it?  I REALLY want to know how =
they think=20
  the fabric was created!

  
 

  

  
Sg

  
 

  
  
-----Original=20
  Message-----
From: =
Danny=20
  McGee [mailto:curmudgeonmcgee@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25,=20
  2003 =
12:01=20
  AM
To:=20
  GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GermanRenCostume] =
Extant=20
  Landsknecht Pants

  
 

  
Anyone know Swedish? Nice=20
  trousers, Silk =
braid=20
  over
leather. At the bottom of the page is a link to=20
  a
large=20
  pic.

www=
.lsh.se/livrustkammaren/press/Modelejon/Bild05.htm=


-Erasmus

"If you see a blind man, run up and kick him.=20
  Why
should you be kinder =
than=20
  God?" -Iranian Proverb



__________________________________________________
Do you=20
  =
Yahoo!?
Yahoo!=20
  Tax=20
  Center - =
forms, calculators,=20
  tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/<=
BR>

  
        
Yahoo! Groups=20
        Sponsor

        

        

    
    

      

    

      

              
ADVERTISEMENT

          
          

            

  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Saragrace Knauf 
  
  
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, =
2003 6:09=20
  PM

  
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric =
Stores in=20
  Northern CA

  


  

  
Gosh, if =
you go up to=20
  the bay area, there are lots of great places.  Stone Mountain & =
Daughter,=20
  Silk=20
  Road=85.I =
actually liked=20
  SM&D  better than Britex and I thought their prices were=20
  better.

  
 

  

  
Sg

  
 

  
  
-----Original=20
  Message-----
From: =
h-costume-admin@indra.com=20
  [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On=20
  Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, =
2003 7:00=20
  PM
To:=20
  h-costume@indra.com
Subject:=20
  Re: [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern CA

  
 

  

  
Hi=20
  Kit!

  

  
 

  

  
I too welcome you to=20
  Sacramento.  Shopping here is the pits!  The best place I =
have found=20
  here is:

  

  
 

  

  
Hi-Fashion=20
  Fabrics 
4106 Franklin =
Boulevard,=20
  Sacramento, CA 95820 
(916)=20
  451-5648 
 

  

  
they sell silks, wools, =
etc. =20
  The store is located in a run down and impoverished part of town, but =
it is=20
  the best place to find quality natural fiber fabric.  I took a =
trip over=20
  the weekend and paid a visit to Thai Silks in Los Altos, great =
selection and=20
  good prices on silk, not much else and of course there is always =
Britex in San=20
  Francisco.  Not a discount place, parking will probably cost you =
$30=20
  before you walk in the door, but it is fabric heaven. =20
  

  

  
 

  

  
A five and a half hour =
drive might=20
  just be worth the trip.

  

  
 

  

  
Cheers!

  

  
 

  

  
Lisa

  
    

    
----- Original Message =
-----=20
    

    

    
From: Kitsune242@aol.com=20
    

    

    
To: h-costume@indra.com=20
    

    

    
Sent:=20
    Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:48 =
AM

    

    
Subject:=20
    [h-cost] Fabric Stores in Northern =
CA

    

    
 

    
Greetings one and =
all!

I=20
    am sorry to bother those of you who do not live in California, but =
hopefully=20
    you will forgive me.

I have recently moved to Sacramento from =

    Burbank.  Needless to say I am going through fabric shopping=20
    withdrawal.  I used to live 20 minutes from the Garment =
District in LA,=20
    now it is 5 hours and 20 minutes away.  I am looking for good =
stores=20
    where I can get decent prices.  I realize that I am not going =
to be=20
    able to get the same deals I was able to get in LA, but I need =
someplace to=20
    go that won't take me all day to get to.  So please, for the =
sake of a=20
    fellow costumer, please send me information on good places to=20
    shop.

Thanks in advance,
Kit

PS - I am currently=20
    unemployed, so it is not like I will be doing a whole lot of heavy =
duty=20
    shopping anytime soon.=20
  =